I don't think this one's gonna fly. Give it a bit of a rest.

Nicely done. I think we should give the idea a breather and let the writefags work until the OP comes back with his next mission brief.

Or even better, with some rules.

I hope Steve gets to see the stories so he can hopefully integrate them in his campaign.

You climb into the cockpit, your sprints soaring ahead of your crate.

You tap the ignition switch and bask in the heady whine as the supercharged quasirocket of an engine spins up to speed with a loud crashing *THUNK* and then silence.

Thunk?

You note the most amazing shade of orange erupting straight through the forward control panel before it all fades away.

The crate, and your glorious flight career, evaporates in a ball of fire.

Then end.

>>8663665
good job on the wiki so far

>>8664074
>>8664092

Would be nice if he could work them in but i'd be happy with him just knowing they're there.

And yeah us writefags need a bit of time to produce the next installments. Take a breather and get some other shit done.

OP again

Got an email back from Steve he said he's writing the next contracts up. I have told him about /tg/ and the help we've had, and he's said if you don't want the RPGish side of the rules, he can give you the base air combat stuff.
"I simply took it from a game and modified some stats that were inaccurate. The RPG elements, are attached on to make PCs more capable and tough then the original tabletop ruleset allowed for. I didn't create this game from nothing, I built upon a system I enjoyed, by adding RPG elements to it, sort of like Crimson Skies."

I wrote him back saying you guys want any rules, and am waiting for his reply.

>>8664776
Many thanks OP.

And you can just dump anything you have into the 1d4chan wiki, we'll sort it out eventually.

>>8664776
OP, if Steve comes through with the base rules, you will have made many fligh/tg/uys and fligh/tg/als very happy in their pants.

>>8664776
Thanks for passing along the message OP. And thank you once again for being kind enough to share your adventures with us.

Busy writing up the Osprey's encounter with the Vark.

>>8664955
All three seconds of it ;)

>>8665007

well there were the first three seconds...then the chaos during its turn around...then the piece of hell when it came around for the strafing pass.

plenty to write about.

F-4>Migs

only europeans and commies think otherwise.

>>8663665
"Holy Shit! Planes and Mercs!?" eh? The current stuff looks fun, by all means keep at it. Might also want to take a look at:
In Harms Way: Wild Blue
http://www.flyingmice.com/wildblue.html

Which can also be used with the rest of the In Harms Way line including Age of Sail, both World Wars and now Science Fiction (with IHW:Starcluster).

>>8665173
And maybe OP, or he wouldn't have Hugs go in for air superiority alone...

>>8665193
We all downloaded Wild Blue 6 or 7 threads earlier.
It looks good.

>>8665215
Hugs flies a Sukhoi, not a MiG.

That's why it doesn't suck.

>>8665248
Slavshit.
And that's a compliment.

>>8665273
It better be a compliment, since the Sukhoi-27 is a potent platform.

>>8665173

doesn't know what he's talking about.

>>8665233

Link to download, if you could please.

>>8665313
its in /rs/. find it yourself.

>>8665313
1) check /RS/
2) bother all the nice people

http://www.mediafire.com/?nztrojxxjme

>>8665401
ugh...stupid formatting...fixed

It was a thankfully peaceful night in this particular stretch of the South Atlantic and Ensign Kamal Benayache of the Royal Moroccan Navy was glad of it. Any dog watch was a pain in the rear at the best of times but at least quiet ones didn’t leave you feeling like camel dung the next morning.

Kamal had dealt with rough nights on watch before. The Atlantic was not a forgiving place and many a night had found him concluding his watch in the middle of a raging South Atlantic storm. The placid seas outside the bridge windows tonight were a blessing and he offered up yet another prayer of thanks as he got up from his seat to stretch his legs. Not that there was much room to stretch in on the cramped bridge of the RMNS PV-7.

The Osprey 55 class patrol boat was one of the smaller warships in the Royal Moroccan Navy but the four vessels in the class were coveted posts for young officers looking to gain command experience. Not only were they at sea a good deal of the time but they were also known for allowing ensigns more opportunities to stretch their fledgling command authority in duties that weren’t just training exercises. There was a lot to do on a fifty-five meter vessel with a crew of only thirty-six after all.

>>8665370

Thanks for providing the link.

Finishing his stretch Kamal circled the bridge. The man at the wheel was obviously tired but he’d straitened himself up when Kamal had gotten up to stretch and was even now looking much more awake than he had moments before. The ensign nodded to him and stepped up close to give the radar screen a brief scan. Nothing...’Just as it should be,’ he thought contentedly. But even the powerful surface search radar wouldn’t pick up everything. Small rafts, bits of garbage, and even modern zodiacs wouldn’t show up as more than a flutter on the radar screen...and just one missed contact could ruin Kamal’s night. That was why, even with modern technology, the Mk-1 Human Eyeball would never fall out of use.

Kamal left the radar screen and stepped out onto the tiny starboard side wing platform where one of the pair of duty lookouts were posted. It was a cramped space, meant only for one, but often occupied by many more on certain occasions. The seaman on duty didn’t seem to mind the intrusion in any case as his attention was elsewhere. The huge pair of night-binoculars he held looked like they’d been glued to his face. Kamal wasn’t sure how the man did it but whenever he came out here the binoculars were there...attached to his face like some strange limpet that never came off.

“No sightings?” Kamal asked, even though he knew the answer.

“No sightings, sir,” came the man’s reply; The same reply he’d given dozens of times and would probably continue to give even after Kamal was long gone from the PV-7.

Kamal nodded and opened his mouth to reply when the world turned itself on its ear.

>>8665401
check box
scroll down
click delete

Simulcast on

1d4chan.org/wiki/Mercenaries_and_planes#Osprey_encounter_by_Skyhawk

>>8665173

Depends on the MiG, I'd say.Quite the differrence between a Fresco and a Fulcrum.

>>8665489

wow...that was fast...

>>8665409
>>8665432

those are the parts I have done. You'll have to wait for the rest a while. ^_^

>>8665847
Best Fighter (n)ever made.

>>8665173
European here, I prefer Phantoms ;)

>>8664776
Many thanks, OP :)

>>8666420
I'm German. We still fly the Phantom II. And if I'm not mistakes still a few Fulcrums from the NVA (former East German army).

And If the aliens took over our cities and I was the last man alive on an air base and had to choose which jet to try and kill myself with, I'd take the Mig.

>>8666488
Not sure about how up to date your MiGs are, but I love that you guys upgraded your Phantoms to AMRAAM compatibility :)

>>8666488

Well that's because you're EAST German, you commie FUCKER!

>>8666506

>>8666516

I'm an ethnocentric asshole.

That's all there is to it, really.

>>8666506
Don't turn the thread into a pointless US tech > All else trollfest.

We already had the shitfest a few threads back over the F22, don't start another.

>>8666533

>>8666544
Agreed with this anon. These threads are way to awesome for that.

Please save it for /k/...

>>8666544
>>8666544

>We already had the shitfest a few threads back over the F22

On /tg/? Seriously? HERE, of all places?

Also, I know exactly what those are like. For a while "Raptor 1.7 hours" was the "guaranteed 200+" troll thread on /k/. But /k/ was always full of fucking morons.

>>8664177

>bitches don't know about my zero-altitude ejection seat

>>8666544

And before that we had PAK-FA trolling. Seriously, if people keep making threads like this instead of waiting a bit, the awesome will be spread too thin and trolling will predominate instead.

>>8666668

true dat.but this is, essentially, a meta-thread, so account for that. This is swiftly becoming.... huge.

Polite sage to keep the real threads independent and more unique.

>>8666668
>>8666628
>>8666544
This is exactly why I keeping saging these threads earlier. I am a military weapons&historyfag but the sheer amount nationalistic bullshit that seem to come out of /k/ makes this too depressing to discuss.

>>8666831
Luckily /tg/ seems to be more civilized and can actually appreciate the awesome of this thread, and the individual planes used by OPs group and posted by (other) anons

>>8666488
The Fulcrums are gone. Sold to Poland for 1€ and to be replaced by Typhoons. ;_;

The Phantoms are slated to have the same happen to them.

>>8666953
Damn...

That sucks

Finally someone is picking up the slack on 1d4.

Thanks for your help.

>>8666544
>>Don't turn the thread into a pointless US tech > All else trollfest.

Actually, on /tg/ it's usually a pointless Russian tech > All else trollfest.

>>8664776
>>OP again
>>Got an email back from Steve he said he's writing the next contracts up. I have told him about /tg/ and the help we've had, and he's said if you don't want the RPGish side of the rules, he can give you the base air combat stuff.
>>"I simply took it from a game and modified some stats that were inaccurate. The RPG elements, are attached on to make PCs more capable and tough then the original tabletop ruleset allowed for. I didn't create this game from nothing, I built upon a system I enjoyed, by adding RPG elements to it, sort of like Crimson Skies."
>>I wrote him back saying you guys want any rules, and am waiting for his reply.

I am actually most interested in the RPG aspects of the rules. Would love anything and everything he can provide, but the stuff for PCs he mentioned is something I'd really enjoy.

>>8664875
That has got to be one of the least appealing "FUCK YEAH" images ever.

>>8667398
how is that not appealing...to a guy at least? Do you not like anime or something?

In case you're a plane nut who hasn't seen this, it's fricking superb.

http://videos.komando.com/2010/01/29/air-show-comedy-act/

My writing brain is elsewhere today, don't think I'll have anything for y'all unfortunately. However, I am somewhat competent with wikifu, so I'll get to updating that a bit.

I'm making up my own titles for the stories, if you don't like 'em either tell me or change them yourself.

>>8667492
>>how is that not appealing

Terrible drawing, posturing, and coloring.

I like anime. But that picture is just bad.

>>8667563
yeah i'd heard about this guy but i've never seen his act until now. thx

>>8667590
You fix that up the way you like. I just c&pd it from the thread, didn't even know it was you.

>>8667646
Yeah, I didn't trip until I posted it up the second time.

>>8667398
I would have done it myself but my Camera batts are dead.

>>8667777
lol

pity, would have been entertaining

>>8667563
I like that at one point you can hear the crowd gasp so loudly that it makes it over the shitty soundtrack.

>>8667777
>>dead camera batts
You have made an anon sad.

:(

>>8667808
They should apply that awesome paint scheme to an F-5.

>>8667777
For the love of humanity, recharge them and do it!!!

I think I've got all the writefaggotry in now.

I really like that 1d4 page now.

Really really like it!

>>8668173
needs images

>>8668015

>>8668117
THIS

>>8668180
agreed...just a lot of text right now

>>8668186
I like it, but it needs to be more fierce.

>>8668180
Not really much in the way of images you can put on the article.

I guess you could put up pictures of the aircraft the squadron are flying and the maps from the briefings, but thats about it.

>>8668244

thats pretty much what i would have done.

NATO Tiger Meet is one of the coolest invitation only airshows ever.

>>8668244

We could request some drawfags to draw some of the scenes in the fics or mission reports...Or mugshots of the merc team if we ever get a good description.

OP again
Got this from Steve

"We'll be playing on Saturday, keep your eyes open this evening for the mission brief. ... Oh yeah, the base ruleset is 'Air War' but I've changed the stats in a few areas, and added some small things here and there. The biggest difference is the pilot skill/abilities which took some time to balance. And my own cost sheet for aircraft purchases, since the original game isn't designed for an RPG"

I hope that helps.

>>8668286
This is how I see Scotch.

>>8668244
>>8668286
DO IT NAO!

>>8668365
Tell your party about 1d4chan. They'll like it.

OP should learn how to tripcode.

>>8668365
>>The biggest difference is the pilot skill/abilities which took some time to balance. And my own cost sheet for aircraft purchases, since the original game isn't designed for an RPG"

These are the things I want most, if he would be so kind as to provide.

Thanks for everything so far, OP.

>>8668365

Air War, huh? Time to go looking.

I should note that it is an absolute bitch to get images into a wiki. Or at the very least I have no idea how to do it successfully

If we did get a good array of images together however... That'd be worth the effort of figuring it out.

>>8668286
Maybe, dunno how many drawfags would do that sort of thing. I saw a couple of people, including sukhoi, make similar requests in a drawfag thread earlier but no one seemed interested.

I think they're too busy dealing with requests asking for daemonettes tentacle raping sisters to care about awesome shit like this.

>>8668365
Thanks for the info OP, if possible could you ask him for his changes, and maybe the pilot skill system.

I'm planning to run a campaign like this myself sometime, and his battle rules would be very much appreciated, not as worried about the RPG elements of his system personally, as I'm likely to homebrew my own anyway, but if possible they would also be quite nice to have as reference.

>>8668529
Found it!

I am 48 bucks poorer but I found it! I had to buy 3 games until I found the right one!

>>8668577
You rock, ma'am.

Insert the usual request of an upload here.

>>8668631
Or at least a link to the right one.

>>8668577
Had a quick look myself but didn't turn anything up myself.

Links would be much appreciated.

The Aircraft lists are FUCKAWESOMEMCBANDERSNATCH!

>>8668668

>>8668537

if drafwags could draw planes worth a damn I would have had a pic of a haibane watching a prop-plane dogfight by now. I never bothered asking.

>>8668668
You're the best, Sukhoi :D *high five*


Could you please upload it and provide a link?
For the love of planefags everywhere...

>>8668713

OH GOD PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEASDLKASD;FLKAJSDFKLAJS;DFLKAJ

>>8668695

>>8668713
>>8668695

Yeah, and check out the Weponlist! Not your basic AIM-7, but every variant ever!

I'm sorry...i can't stop posting...

>>8668728
Don't be cruel, woman, just upload it...

Please?

I'll be forever in your debt...

>>8668728

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!!

>>8668728
I like how "nuclear" doesn't need a number.

>>8668728

>AIM-26A NUCLEAR FALCON

>>8668762
HAHAHAHA...didn't notice that before but now I can't stop laughing. kinda like the pic i've provided.

>>8668754
>>8668716
>>8668713

I'll upload it for the poor fligh/tg/uys who admit that the Flanker is the sexiest plane in the skies today.

(For those who can't say that, or who want to buy it)
http://www.wargamevault.com/product_info.php?products_id=58227

>>8668795
I'll admit that it's sexy, not the sexiest (sorry, miss, that title still goes to the Tomcat).

Please have mercy on a poor fligh/tg/uy without a credit card? /grovel

>>8668795
Hell, I'd agree that it's the sexiest plane in the skies today even without the promise of an upload.

>>8668795
An outrageous price! Why my Raphael... this is a hard bargain, madam.

...The Flanker is the sexiest plane in the skies today...

There. I said it. *cries*

>>8668795
Only if you equate sexy with having a fat ass.
Su-27/30 series have xbawkshuge radar signatures.

>>8668820
Tomcats aren't nearly as sexy when mating.

Come on fligh/tg/uy, admit the Flanker is the sexiest...

>>8668795

>say she's the sexiest

Guess I'm gonna save up some money.

>>8668795

*sniff* my A-4 will understand.

YOU'RE A SEXY LADY FLANKER!

>>8668795
I...
It...

Fuck, Su's right.

Load her up!

>>8668795
SR-71 is sexier

>>8668832
You have pleased me

>>8668835
You have not...

>>8668879
Yes, but not in the skies these days.

>>8668842
I'll admit it, but you have to post your version of the 'fuck yeah' pic ;)

(sorry, this is 4chan after all ;) )

>>8668889

My latent ethnocentrism is doing grim battle with my raging boner for this ruleset.

Although, I might just pay twenty bucks for this game. THEY STATTED THE NUCLEAR FALCON. THAT DESERVES SOME RECOGNITION, I THINK.

>>8668905

ooh ooh yeah! that'll help ease my suffering after such a trying admission.

The other issue about the Su-30 with tvc is it drops like a stone when using it and losing energy which got the Indian Su-30 comprehensively pwned by US pilots.

>>8668795
>>8667777
Dammit sukhoi, why do you tease us so?

>>8668955
Seconding this.

>>8668864
>>8668867
>>8668832
>>8668823
Alright, denial of the Rafael (which is stunningly beautiful) and the A4, which has a cute uglyness, is payment enough.

Uploading.
>>8668955
It's fun?

>>8668937
>>8668905
Like without my shirt on?

>>8668953
Sauce on anything detailing this, plox?

I wonder what you'd have to do to get your hands on a genie or nuke falcon in the OP's game. Jury rigging a hardpoint, actually getting an active missile (if there are any left).

Would pretty much be the ultimate ace in the hole though...

>>8669007
YES
>>Like without my shirt on?
Also YES

The reality is that the Su-27/30 massive radar sig compromises it in BVR combat while her tvc screw it in WVR range. That isn't to say that they aren't great planes, just that they aren't anywhere as invincible as fanboys like to think it is.

>>Would pretty much be the ultimate ace combat though...

Fixed.

>>8669007
ohthankyouthankyouthankyou....

and your choice really. i'm not about to pressure anyone into something like that. though i will admit i'd like it without...warm blooded male and all.

>>8669031
"The cruise missiles and UAVs are controlled by the enemy Heavy Command Cruiser."

Mercs and Planes mission 9: Surprise Aigaion Buttsecks

>>8669009
http://vayu-sena.indianmilitaryhistory.org/exercise-red-flag-su-30mki-comparison-fornof.shtml

Here's a transcript detailing Red Flag 2008 with Su-30's of IAF going against F-15's and F-16's.

>>8669038

now, now, don't slight the femanons here.

Of course, if sukhoi has hilarious accoutrements he can wear, that'd be boss. Let's give him carte blanche to make the most hilarious pic he can.

>>8669009
Red Flag 08 debrief by USAF Colonel Terrence Fornof

part1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKEa-R37PeU
part2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ibgAQ7lv0w

The butthurt Indians were pissed off enough to demand an apology:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNie0HzPmaY&feature=related

>>8669018
The Sukhoi is not designed to be stealthy, it's designed to operate in an Active Radar Environment, that's why it mounts the most powerful airborne Radar short of an AWACs unit.

>>8669007
Please do upload it (fligh/tg/uy here)

(might actually make that my tripcode)


And shirt off would ofcourse be preferred, but see '8669038 and all that

>>8669098

MY RADAR IS HUGE

YOUR MISSILES ARE INVALID

I see why you like it. That design approach is just so... awesome.

>>8669088
I wouldn't dream of it. I respect more females in my life than males...kinda hard.

a couple threads ago sukhoi was all like "I don't want to tell people I'm a girl so the thread doesn't get derailed into HURR YOU'RE A GIRL"

and now the same sukhoi is engaged in coy banter with tripfags about posting topless pics

goddamn it, sukhoi, I thought you were cool. rawk lawbstar never did this kind of shit

So fligh/tg/uys, Data Annex (Plane Stats) or Main Rules first?

>>8669145
stats first plz

>>8669145
Main rules, please.

I can read them while you upload the Data Annex and then have an idea of what goes where.

>>8669145

MAIN RULES PLZ! MAIN RULES.

>>8669143

>implying that girls who like airplanes exist

I have done an EXHAUSTIVE search for such, and found absolutely jack shit. Begone, and take your lies with you!

>>8669145

Main rules. If I wanted to look at sheets of meaningless statistics I'd be an accountant.

>>8669181
>>8669175
>>8669166

but...but...but...STATS!

>>8669143
sukhoi's real coy banter is about giving us that sweet, sweet .pdf

Unlike rawk lobster, who's little better than a troll, sukhoi has proven to be a bro by giving very delicious writefagging and now the rules we've been thirsting for. Hell, I couldn't care either way about topless pics.

>>8669120
It's also ridiculous. Only a few planes should be emitting if at all. I'll stay out of your "Active Radar Environment" and use BVRAAMs. thx for the radar equivalent of a postal address.

>>8669200
>>STATS

Mean more when you have rules to accompany them.

>>8669202

>sukhoi has proven to be a bro by giving very delicious writefagging and now the rules we've been thirsting for. Hell, I couldn't care either way about topless pics.

I thought I was the only person on 4chan who thought plane geekage > boobs.

I'm... among friends here.

>>8669202
This man speaks the truth.

>>8669217

so what's the point of radar-guided missiles if you can't pass targeting data to your goddamn missiles? I'm confused here. How does BVR combat work these days?

>>8669225
agreed...tits would just be a bonus.

>>8669175
Well there was that Modern Marvels episode on the A-10 with the female pilot who talked a little to fondly about the vibration in the aircraft when she revved up the 30mm shitruiner.

Then again, I can't really blame her.

>>8669143
Shut up, every once in a while it's fun to make people dance for you. Besides, most of the people here are tripfags whom I've talked to for 3000+ posts, so we're all bros.

>>8669251
Su-27/30 = well armed fatso with a torch in the dark.

>>8669266

>most of the people here are tripfags whom I've talked to for 3000+ posts, so we're all bros.

I knew these plane threads had degenerated into tripfag circlejerk retardation a while back. Now you just gave me the impetus to initiate a campaign of trolling to run this shit off the board. Congratulations.

>>8669260

>implying YOU wouldn't cum all over the instrument panel when the 30mm shitruiner fired up

I remember the first time I used the "teste" variant of the Mosquito in Aces Over Europe (with the 57mm cannon in the nose.) It was like, "WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN ALL MY LIFE"

>>8669266

pic related, good job

>>8669266

daww...bro fist is unworthy of this moment.

>>8669306
Or you're just looking for an excuse to troll.

There's been remarkably little circlejerk as most of the posts are from Anon. And there's been plenty of superb campaign stories and writefagging.

>>8669306

I DON'T TRIP, I RESENT THAT

>>8669217
Your AMRAAMs?

Good luck getting within 30miles to launch them at a Flanker. Especially since the Flanker can see you BVR with IRST and have a salvo of AA-10ETs on the way before you have Launch Authorization.

And that doesn't even include the Flanker pumping enough power into the sky to see through your 'low observable' stealth system 60 miles out, where, I add, it can engage you.

Flanker's aren't going to win a stealth battle, but they're not trying to.

Everyone else, rules are coming up.

>>8669266
I for one am very interested.. pic plz!
Su-27/30 are the best honest!

>>8669340

I think this post just explained why the F-22 exists.

>>8669251
>blurrr flurga durp hurp dow do active radar homing work hurrr

>>8669309
hey now, that's what the

>Then again, I can't really blame her.

line is for. If I were sitting in that plane and salting the earth at 4,200 RPM I'd have to open the canopy to accommodate my erection.

And in defense of trips I only use it when needed. For instance when there's a bunch of writefags.

Everyone, as I said earlier, don't argue about what's better and what isn't. Thats not the point of this thread, please don't let it enter /k/ levels of retardation.

>>8669385

agreed on all points

>>8669340

Flanker IRST will be lucky to detect anything 15 kilometers/ten miles away. The plane is for dogfights and airshow stunts, and the screw-stealth-i-has-radar approach the Russians have abandoned with their 5th generation fighter.

>>8669374

Yeah, I guess you can apply anti-radiation missiles to enemy fighters, but unlike SAM sites, they're moving at mach 1.5, so all they have to do is shut off their radar every now and then and they'll be safe from incoming missiles. Hell, all they have to do is shut their radar off when it picks up an incoming bird and jink a bit.

Most A2A these days have built in active radar homing, but you still need to turn your radome on long enough to aqquire a bandit and fire.

>>8669340
Too bad my AWACs will see yours before your AWACs will see mine. IRST won't work in BVR, too short ranged.

> Flanker's aren't going to win a stealth battle, but they're not trying to.
Someone is totally not getting modern air combat. Compare with Eurofighter, F-16, F/A-18E, Gripen. None are true stealth plane but detection is still the most important issue. I like to think we've figured that out after Bekaa Valley.

>>8669385

>line is for. If I were sitting in that plane and salting the earth at 4,200 RPM I'd have to open the canopy to accommodate my erection.

This visual made me spit out my coffee. Well played, sir.

>>8669225
Plus motherfucking one

As much as I'd love to see boobs, planes over all

For some reason, I would totally dig a 50s-60s version of this. Missiles just don't do it for me.

Sabre ftw.

>>8669444

if detection is so important, wouldn't that make the Flanker's powerful radar a good thing...?

Detection probably has far more to do with comparative AWACS support, anyways.

Let's not get into another F-22 vs. Sukhoi shitfest, please?

@Sukhoi: please post rules? Tits are ofcourse a bonus, but rules have priority.

Also, for my queen's pleasure: Su-27 is the sexiest bird in the sky

The Su27 are super planes, they just came 20 years too late. As for the Eurofighter, try 30 years too late. Totally pointless aircraft.

>>8669490
Someone gets the idea!

Flanker detects "Low Observable" Stealth (F-22, F-35) at LONG Range. Sure, the F-22 will know where the Flanker is, but the same goes the other way. Then it becomes a range game. Flanker has an advantage there. Then it becomes an ammo game, Flanker (12 Hardpoints) wins again.

As to AWACS vs AWACS, if you think an E3 would be operating in the full out conflict we are talking about, you're mistaken. Besides, as mentioned already, the Flankers are capable of detecting nose cold planes on their own, outside the engagement envelope of the enemy.

It's two different strategies for the same conflict, and until said conflict occurs, we'll never know which is better.

>>8669521

lolwut? We're discussing the intricacies of modern BVR combat!

Which is something I need to learn. Most of my knowledge, as of late, is derived from engagements between aircraft that have less then a 1:1 power/weight ratio and the primary weapons are limited to rapid-fire kinetic energy weapons at visual range.

>>8665308

Enjoy your non responsive throttle and lack of climb.

Phantom here, I loop mig21's into the pavement.

>>8669570
Definitely agreed with the last part.

I've been out of the jet-fighter scene for too long to comment on the rest...

>>8669570

Hey, now that makes sense. Thank you.

'Course, that's not a problem if you consider that F-15s can easily slug it out with a Flanker, but the Flanker has the ability to *force* a BVR slugfest with everybody's cards on the table, by making the F-22 the Highly Visible Ninja.

Hmmm.

>>8669490
>Detection probably has far more to do with comparative AWACS support, anyways.

Exactly, AWACs have 200+ range detection. The "W" stands for Warning. So the powerful radar while nice isn't that much of a big deal except in an interceptor role w/o AWAC support.
The big fail of the Su-27/30 is that it has a big ass that is easier to find and easier for missiles to home in one and harder for the poor bastards flying them to escape.

>>8669611
And yet if you're in the horizontal my Mig21 can out turn and out fly you all day long...hmm

>>8669655
Speculation aside, is there any real data available regarding BVR F-22 engagements and their stealth being compromised?

I doubt, but I guess it can't hurt to ask...

>>8669659

>So the powerful radar while nice isn't that much of a big deal except in an interceptor role w/o AWAC support.

In the context of the Russian export arms industry, that might make sense. Lots of smaller nations don't have AWACS support worth beans.

Sukhoi Delivers

http://www.mediafire.com/?nmm3zigmylj

Tell me if it works.

Su-27/30 hater here, the MiG-21 is a fucking godly aircraft. Actually I go further to say only the Mig-15 is better in a dogfight, and yes dogfights are what you have when your A2A missiles don't work. Downside is of course shit range and payload.
The F-5 has a similar performance and USAF pilot trainers routinely pwned students in F-15 who didn't give it their proper respect.

>>8669718

weeellll, stealth is never "compromised," planes aren't invisible, they can just get closer to radar without being detected. Even if an F-22 is detected, it can get closer then it otherwise could, and it can break radar-seeking missiles lock easier.

>>8669709

Actually, last I checked, the MiG-21's power/weight is slightly better then the F-4, but not by much. Also, the MiG-21 doesn't really turn that well (look at the little fucker, it's a tiny dart,) but neither does the F-4, and they both roll quite well.

It's all down to pilot skill, since there's no obvious performance disparities I can peg, besides the F-4 being significantly faster.

>>8669709

Drop throttle, Cobra Manuever, Aim9, trollface.


Or we could do some low altitude loops and you and your wingman can eat dirt nose first.

>>8669789
Thanks sukhoi, download link much appreciated.

>>8669718
There's lots of speculation, but for security reasons, it's not released. Maple Flag, Red Flag, all exercises where the F-22 is around, are tightly controlled by ROE so that certain situations (Radar Heavy AIrspace, F-22 without Awacs support) don't occur. It may seem like a dick move, but the Russians do the same thing, they forbade the Indians to utilize the full power of the MKI Flanker in exercises with foreign nations.

>>8669819

but oh right, you fuckers are playing a board game.

carry on

>>8669789

IT WORKS

>flankersrule.pdf

nice, nice

>>8669819

yeah i'd love to see your heavy ass F4 pull a cobra.

>>8669842
sukhoi,

Could you tell me where you bought the game and what ones you bought that weren't "it"? In all truth I'm more interested in having books in my hand than more .pdf files on my drive.

>>8669819

>cobra maneuver

He's trying hard, but this thread is just un-trollable. I give you an A for effort.

>>8669789
IT WORKS, IT'S WONDERFUL

THANK YOU

>>8669789

works...thx sukhoi!

>>8669871
Only have the PDF. I bought Wild Blue and MaS earlier on. I bought 'Air War' a 1977 game on ebay, just prior to finding the correct one.

I sent my pdf to Staples, so I'll have a printed and bound copy soon!

>>8669871
Sukhoi posted the link earlier, and she bought a pdf download, don't know how available the book, if it even exists, is.

>where action is played in 2D, but with some representation of 3D combat maneuvers

YES

YES

OH GOD YES

>>8669866

...I do this shit in simulation like every fucking day.

WITH TANKS ON.

and no, not talking about Arma.

F-4's are like Pitbulls, once one has your ass end its nearly impossible to pull me off.

its apples and oranges pal, the secret is not playing anyones game but your own.

>>8669891

Look nigga, it might not be a real Cobra Manuever, but its emulated all the same.

>>8669789
You're a goddess :D

Are these all the rules (haven't read through it entirely yet), or do you have anything else for us?


In return, SU-35

>>8669842
Silliest idea I've heard in a long time. Firstly the most secret part of the plane is the radar so most countries will operate their radars in training mode only except among their most trusted allies. Secondly anything the Russians are willing to sell to the Indians is not likely to be top secret.

>>8669910
Stats are coming up next, right?

The F-4 is the most Russian-looking aircraft the US has ever built.

It's like they beat it with the ugly hammer until it did what they wanted it to do.

>>8669983

Theres no munitions on those racks :C

>>8669910
>implying a printing company would participate in copyright violations

>>8669939
>VF-1 FAST Packs in an atmosphere.

>>8669969

He'll be uploading the stat sheets next. If we're nice to him.

>>8669958

The "Cobra" is an airshow maneuver with no combat applications. Next time you want to troll, call it the "high-speed yo-yo" and you'll do better.

Pic related, my desktop

>>8669983
And it's still dead sexy...

I guess that does make it Russian :P

>>8669939
lol except that with pitbulls a .45 to the cranium will put an end to that ass biting real quick. Bad comparison sir.

Fact is F4s aren't as maneuverable in the horizontal as Mig21s are. F4s out class migs in just about every other way but this one. If you're butt hurt about that i'm sorry.

>>8669972
So you're... Agreeing with me? And yes, I know the Indians have an export model, so if the CIS/Russia does not let them use MAX POWUH mode, just think of what the WAR MODE is like on Russian Flankers.

>>8670010
>implying sukhoi didn't just buy the pdf.

>>8670020

It still doesn't change the fact intercepting migs fly right under me.

Allowing me to burn, tip my nose down and fire an Aim-9 at .4 nm

Mmmm delicious Fonda tears.

>>8670010
Personal Use... Staples/Office Depot print PDFs all the time.

>>8670043

I never said they weren't.

But as you said, they outclass the mig in every other way.

I'm just not relying on the horizontal, thus I win.

>>8670043

he's trolling you, my friend.

<---- CHICKS DIG PLANES.

>>8670077

Cool story bro.

>>8670067

Yup, I've done it before.

Now if you went up and wanted to print twenty copies, they might get suspicious.

>>8670063

Oh, well, that actually would be the high-speed yo-yo. You stick your nose up, cut the throttle, and they over-shoot, amirite?

>>8670063

Except any pilot worth his wings wouldn't stick around to take your AIM9 in the ass. As soon as you TRIED to cobra(or whatever you wanna call you're pathetic attempt at a combat cobra) they'd be busy putting on the breaks themselves and turning away.

>>8669972

Yup. Russia's reliability as a supplier has been questioned in India for a while now, they used to be the sole source of Indian weapon imports once, but now we've seen lots of purchases from US and other western countries. In no small part due to russians pulling shit like the Admiran Gorshkov affair, and the Su-30 fleet had to be grounded due to 2 crashes in short succession last year.

The winner of the ongoing Medium Multi-role Combat Aircraft competition isn't going to be the Mig-35, mark my words on that.

>>8670105

Except I've got my tanks on...and my F-4 pulls harder and drops faster.

You said it yourself, I didn't paint this corner for you.

Just because the 21 was involved in a little victory, doesn't mean it should be praised.

>>8670105

This.

Except if he's actually playing a sim online he probably get away with it all the time. My god they're dumb online. The only good thing is, they can't teabag you.

So, moar rules, Sukhoi?

I already admitted the sexiness of the Su-27...

>>8670144

They aren't dumb, but it does piss off alot of foreigners.

Usually euros flying the 21's.

Most of the time flying so low is suicide what with all the assortments of AA and Triple A.

But usually you can Coax the little fuckers near a large hill or some rough terrrain, even some water.


Best thing that ever happened to me a flak burst hit the defending mig, priceless.

>>8670164

Thats another thing, I can got alot more acceleration than the 21 at the price of fuel.

My ditching is horrible :C

>>8670140

I don't know what "little victory" you're talking about, and i'm not saying your little maneuver wouldn't work on some pilots, but its not going to work every time.

And you are, of course, assuming my MiG is right on your tail so that you can pull this off. That's gun range you're talking about and I wouldn't come into guns range unless i had the drop on you completely.

>>8670140

>tanks on is a plus

I can see you've had way too many engagements with morons. What game do you play?

What I'd do if you tried this on me would be to perform my own high-speed yo-yo, popping above you and rolling inverted to keep my lift vector on you. Naturally, you'd counter by diving away from me, and I'd follow you. Now we're in the vertical scissors. Since most pilots will combine this with a bit of a barrel roll, we'll end up in the rolling scissors, (pic related.)

In the rolling scissors, the pilot who manages his energy the best wins. You need to conserve as much as possible. So your F-4, flying dirty with tanks, would lose, unless you ditched them, in which case it'd be a close fight.

I got to talk about the rolling scissors on /tg/ and it was on topic. Hold on, I'm going to smoke a cig. BRB>

>>8670229

Missiles fail too much bro

Unless I'm going the straight and narrow, YOU WILL GO GUNS.

usually its about one in four, on average.

Falling short or falling right off the fucking rack.

Also that little victory is 'nam.

what rock do you live under?

>>8670268

>Falling short or falling right off the fucking rack.

>Phantoms vs. Fishbeds

VIETNAM, GOODY GOODY! YOU MUST TELL ME WHAT GAME YOU'RE PLAYING, AND WHERE YOU GO ONLINE TO PLAY IT SIR

>>8670268

Apparently one where your amazingly obscure and hazy assumptions aren't understood.

And you don't have the same problem with missiles then? You're either amazingly lucky or living in a fantasy 1970s.

>>8670308

Wings over Vietnam.

>>8670332

I just told you I do.

but I usually fire at such ranges that unless I get a full blown failure, it hits.

but ofcourse I lose breathing room.

ITT: OPERATORS

ETA on Stats download?

>>8670237

ffff my post I had it all written out.

I doubt you have stick over me,

but if you are my equal, I clip you or I lead us into some dangerous terrain or element, smoke is usually a goody.

Maybe Colide?

thats the tl;dr

I've clipped two migs with little damage, some times you get lucky as fuck.

>>8670351

Yes, yes, a closer launch always equals a better kill chance, unless you get within minimum range.

However, if MiGs are getting close enough to you to blow PAST you, how is it you're not taking a heat-seeker up the tailpipe? Do the MiGs in the game have heatseekers? What maneuver are you using, exactly? This "cobra?" I might be able to improve yer flying.

>>8670364
Goddamnit, /k/, get out of my /tg/ awesomeness!


Sukhoi, any more rules? I'm getting blue balls here...

Pic for your troubles

TAKE THIS SHIT TO /k/ I'M TIRED OF HAVING TO SCROLL PAST IT

>>8670351

meh...enough. Look at the use of F5s and A4s in current dissimilar training where they emulate MiG21s and 17s and you'll see how often they out fly people who aren't prepared.

Not saying you aren't prepared or don't know what your doing but just out right saying you can beat Mig 21s in close hands down is a bit much for me to take.

ITT: This plane is better because I can fly it well in a game.

>>8670408
Damnit, forgot pic

>>8670387

Doubt you could, once we're engaged in the scissors, you can't really re-direct the fight. The guy who leaves the scissors first gives advantage- and a shot- to the enemy.

Now I usually play WWII sims, where it's easier to survive, because guns are the only weapon and their effective range is only out to perhaps 300 yards on a manuvering target. With heatseekers in the mix, anybody leaving the engagement is going to get a heatseeker up their ass quite quick, even if you hit the cans and unload for speed.

Also, if your best tactic is to RAM, you're not doing it right. :3

>>8670428
>>8670411

yeah i'm done...sorry folks...but i was in a contentious mood after the day i've had and felt I had to defend one of my fav aircraft.

>>8670428

Also: I'M A BETTER FICTIONAL PILOT THAN YOU! NO I AM! SHOW ME YOUR MOVES! I CAN SHOVE A MISSILE IN YOUR TAILPIPE ANY DAY MAVERICK! UNF UNF UNF WE COULDN'T BE GAYER IF WE TRIED

Also: SHITTING UP THE THREAD WITH BACK AND FORTH CIRCLEJERKING AND THEN PATTING MYSELF ON THE BACK WITH A POST OF "WOW GUYS THIS THREAD GOT 300+ REPLIES TOO, /tg/ SURE IS AWESOME HUH?"

>>8670411
Learn to hide the thread fucktard.
It's /tg/ related, and unlike most people we manage to keep our shit in one thread.

Alright ENOUGH...

still waiting on Sukhoi's upload for the stats. was there anything else to upload or was it just the rules and plane stats?

We're drifting too far into /k/ here guys. Bring it back around to /tg/ related content.

>>8670518
Curious as well, don't keep us hanging, sukhoi...

>>8670418
>>8670428

Actually, he's not far wrong. What he's said so far is fair (play to your aircraft's strengths, don't go into the horizontal versus a MiG,) it's just painfully clear he hasn't fought against experienced sticks, if they all fall to a simple yo-yo defense. He's beating those MiGs because their pilots are idiots, not because the MiG-21 is deficient. It's a clean fighter with better power/weight then the F-4. Hell, Dave Cunningham, a Vietnam ace, got into the exact same engagement I've been describing (rolling scissors) with a hot MiG-21 pilot and he disengaged twice by hitting his 'burners, because he felt that kind of fight was the MiG's game.

(He didn't have guns on that Phantom, though, so he was flying dirty and even if he won the scissors, he'd be too close for missiles.)

>>8670395

Alright I'm not a super duper plane studyer.

I go to /v/ so I enjoy the vidya and simulators, so figure this with my online skill at the F-4.


Usually when a mig even comes onto my ass I begin the roller coaster, we continuosly spin like faggots vertically. Looping as I play with the throttle to lower our drop until I'm around 150 feet when I come to pull up again.

The migs are not as lucky, but if they do get the pull, thats when they push throttle up to catch up to me, who has just sped away from the drop.

Aim9 what else is there to say?

.4nm is optimal range for your standard agile heat seeker, not much distance but they turn ALOT better.

Aim 7 my personal favorite, head ons and pincers become fucking useless. Straight lines are this weapons killzone. So if you B line it in any way, YOU ROSE CHONG.

optimal range 1.8 nm.


My father flies an Intruder, two guesses on what we do.

>>8670519
Sure think Boss

http://www.mediafire.com/?h2mnzyu555m

>>8670554
>>(He didn't have guns on that Phantom, though, so he was flying dirty and even if he won the scissors, he'd be too close for missiles.)

TOO CLOSE FOR MISSILES, I'M SWITCHING TO GUNS

Really though, all of you who have been making the thread more /k/ and /v/ should delete those posts.

>>8670570
FINALLY!

YES

>>8670570
Fuck yes!

Thank you sukhoi.

It's topical though... I'm cool with it, especially since I argue on BVR all the time.

>>8670573
THIS. Check the upper left box of the post, and click the delete button below. Keep it related.

>>8670570
You're the best :)

>>8670573

But its me playing a game :C

Plus I do like the criticism and enjoy defending my argument.

I stand to the fact that the F-4 is just as good, or even better than a Mig-21.

>>8670570
>RaptorsRockbutFlankersRule.pdf

FUUUU-

Your love for slavshit makes you a crazy bitch... Still Sukhoi; I'd do you like a truck.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg

>>8670635
The F-4 is the superior plane. If you use it right. The -21 can catch an F-4 napping though, and if drawn into a turning fight, can down it.

>>8670556

>Usually when a mig even comes onto my ass I begin the roller coaster, we continuosly spin like faggots vertically. Looping as I play with the throttle to lower our drop until I'm around 150 feet when I come to pull up again.

Heh, sounds like you are in fact fighting in the rolling scissors. Man I need to look into this game, it sounds fun.

>Aim 7 my personal favorite, head ons and pincers become fucking useless. Straight lines are this weapons killzone. So if you B line it in any way, YOU ROSE CHONG.

HAHAHAHA, I can appreciate that. Noobs in online sim games always go for the head-on, and it's annoying as hell. "PUT PIPER ON TARGAT AND PULL TREEEEGEERRRR"

>Really though, all of you who have been making the thread more /k/ and /v/ should delete those posts.

Not at all sir! These conversations about dogfighting in the vertical nicely describe why vertical manuvering is so important- and furthermore, why any dogfighting tabletop ruleset without some appreciation for 3D manuvering is woefully deficient.

This ruleset Sukhoi found HAS that, though, so it's clearly the best thing ever.

>>8670570

thx Sukhoi, you helped pull us back from the brink...lol

Has a pic of Sukhoi-nerdygirl been posted yet?

OP again...

Holy Fuck you guys move fast...

I looked at 1d4, that's awesome!

>>8670702
No, and I don't plan on it happening just yet. Like I said, I enjoy watching people dance from time to time.

>>8670675

I thought you left! Don't scare me like that again! Also, post MiG-21s. I like how they look like a rocket with a cockpit on them.

>>8670704

HAY OP!

We've been talking about rules, and planes, and MiG-21s versus F-4 Phantoms, and... and stuff! What's happening?

>>8670729
Rocket with Wings?

>>8670714
So much for the teasing about the 'Fuck Yeah' pick...

Don't be cruel, Sukhoi ;)

>>8670751
OP again, I went out for supper... I came back, hit F5, and went HOLY JET PROPELLED OCTO(3.1417)!

>>8670729

Nah i didn't leave. How could I leave this?

>>8670673

I usually practice in instant action.

It throws you into late 71 or so into operation Thunder.

So you've got bombers in the operations area going to pound charlie.

Migs are on your ass, even worse you don't get wing control and they won't respond to your situation ( usually, some have bailed me out )

I'm at about Angels 20 going 430, Pull on the stick, 19's are the first engagers not as bad as the 21's. Take those out with guns or a missile if you're feeling cocky.

21's come into range, you've probably dropped to Angels 5 because of the fucking 19's.

Loop the first mother fucker, ( usually its an ace, wingman ) he's gone, the rest scatter.

The part that pisses me off is the 21 pilots know a lost situation, so I spend most of my time chasing them down. When its all said and done I've got about 150 pounds of fuel or what ever.

Todays practice was 9 kills, 3 were 19's.

>>8670714

>I like watching people dance

I don't believe it for a second, but if you're actually a chick I assure you that you'll have the entertainment you're looking for as my brain melts and runs out of my ears in shock.

>>8670646
Best Dance move I've seen this week...

>>8670778
Yeah, you and your group (not to mention the god that is Steve) are a real hit, OP :)

>>8670778

heh...surprising yeah? And Sukhoi found the rules! Now all we need are Steve's changes and the RPG bit and we're set.

>>8670823
Everyone willing to suck Steve's cock for those raise their hand...

*raises hand uncomfortably*

>>8670823
Speak for yourself... These base rules are amazing as is. Steve contribs are just icing on the top.

>>8670845

I could line up several OTHER guys i know that would be willing to do it. Me...hell i'll just wait for one of you guys to do it for me.

>>8670856
Yeah, they are, but still, the added rules would still contribute a lot

>>8670856
I can just imagine the guy in there going "Awww Yeah" as that picture was taken.

>>8670881
First photo I've seen that actually gives an impression of SCALE to the Blackjack.

>>8670901
Yeah, a lot of people don't realize how XBOXHUEG it really is

Finnally, this thread autosaged. Sick of this /k/ shit.

>>8670933

Yep they're friggin monsters...but they're just cooler because of it.

So I estimate I've spent half my Friday in this thread. I'm happy.

>>8670947
you're just butt hurt cause 40k, DnD, and MtG weren't taking up the whole front page.

>>8670947
Ignore the thread then dickwad, or is that too much of a task for your under developed brain.

>>8670947

>implying this is /k/

>>8670950
Yeah, they're friggin' awesome :)

Well, gents (and (supposed) lady), we have autosage...
See you in the new thread, I'm off to bed (close to 2 AM here)


Has anyone archived this thread yet?

>>8671001

^ New thread ^