I remember long ago that someone on this board recommended using Mutants & Masterminds, don't remember exactly how, might still be in sup/tg/ though.

Play a paladin. Ride a motorcycle. Wear insect-themed magical plate armor.

Voila, a Kamen Rider.

just checked, looks like it was a casualty of the sup/tg/ purge.

Champions would be my first bet, since it deals specifically in superheroes.

If this "Henshin: The Change" thing is real, though, then that might be worth looking into.

.... Seriously? Someone homebrewed a Toku game off the storyteller system?

Super Google powers are go!

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=463267

My last post in this thread, do what you have always done before, get shit done /tg/.

Well, that WoD thing seems half-baked. A nice basis for an idea, but there's really only one post that puts something decent into it.

Hmm.

Half tempted to wonder if we can do better, but that would require EFFORT.

>Well, that WoD thing seems half-baked.
Would you say it's...half-boiled?

OP here. So, Mutants & Masterminds and Champions? I'll give those a looksee. Shame to see that Henshin: The Change didn't pan out, it'd be really nifty if it was an actual thing.

Thanks, all.

Oh, God, Henshin: The Change would be physical sex if it was real. But, since it's not, I'd go M&M for this one as a fellow /m/an myself.

>>12708160
Wear Glamered Armor made to look like normal clothes until you shout HENSHIN.

>>12708437
>>12708497

Well. As another /m/an, it could be worth a shot. Maybe with a better base system than WoD, or maybe WoD could work.

Anybody know how difficult/easy it is to work on a sourcebook? I'd think with a team...

>>12708546
it's...not easy, unless it was a simple fare. i don't think tokusatsu lends itself well to particularly complex systems, so it might be able to go decently.

a team would greatly reduce the stress, though, especially with testing. but it'd still be EFFORT.

>>12708590
>image
Is that some kind of /fit/ troll?

>>12708599
>EFFORT
EFFORT

>>12708080

There's Tokyo Heroes, a free indie game, but that one's actually aimed more at Sentai. I hesitate to say this- Really, I do- but reverse-engineering the BESM Sailor Moon RPG system, or M&M seems to be your best bet.

If your gaming group is small, a Rider-themed game seems better; If I'm right, there are usually (At most) two-three Riders in each series. Also, Kamen Rider is generally (But not always) darker than other shows.

I've run an excellent campaign based on equal parts Cutie Honey: The Live and Zetman, stripping out the silliness from the former.

There's magic armor in 4th edition that lets you store it in another dimension when you want, and summon it onto your body with a word. I don't remember what it's called or what book it's in, but I'm certain it exists.

>>12708642
Fuck yeah zetman, too bad it's in the vien of fucking berzerk for moving things along.

Fuck you rape mansion, you took way too long and just seemed to scream "my author/artist just went through a bad break up".

>>12708661

Wait till you see Kouga put together his own Kamen Rider costume. That is the most awesome thing I've seen so far; And it *works*. Later, he bolts on a jetpack.

For that game, we had three 'Riders': A police detective whose sister had been murdered (And was righteously pissed about it) who became Kamen Rider Kerebos, thanks to stolen equipment, a derelict modified to be a gladiatorial cyborg, who escaped (Kamen Rider Ixion) and a dude on the run, with a handphone sword. (Kamen Rider Dio.) It was a pretty awesome game.

Mutants and Masterminds is the only option

Alright, I've never played Mutants and Masterminds. But in the event that I ever do, how would I go about building a Kamen Rider character?

>>12708836

There's an option to put your powers in a 'Container'- Like Tony Stark's armor, and so on. There's also an alternate form power. So, as a character, you're bog-standard; Maybe slightly higher-than-average stats.

All your powers are inside your Henshin Device, and you get them when you transform. Simple as that. You also get a slight bonus to the number of points you can spend.

To avoid Faiz-style dickery, though, you might want to add that the Belt can only be used by you.

>>12708836
M&M is great because you can build literally ANY type of character with ease. It's actually a big flaw of the game how overpowered the players can make their characters.

>>12708874
I became a hater of M&M when I saw it make combat with Humongous Mecha -Boring-.

>>12708836

I don't know if this is true in 3rd Edition, but in 2nd, there's a power called Alternate Form with its own selection of Power Points. You buy that, use that form's points to buy your powers and enhanced attributes, then make the drawback that you can only use those powers in your Alternate Form. You can buy your feats and skills normally.

>>12708892
Is the 3rd edition actually released? I only see first and second on the site.

>>12708836
Mutants and Masterminds has a sourcebook called Mecha and Manga which has new powers based around making a transforming hero ala Kamen Rider.

You can even make Pokemon trainers. Weird.

>>12708890
Combat with humongous mecha is NEVER exciting just by itself. Slap your DM, use tradeoff feats, power stunt, use your piloting skills, and do anything but HURR I PUNCH/SHOOT EVERY ROUND.

I play a Kamen Rider character in PDQ#.

http://www.atomicsockmonkey.com/freebies/PDQ.pdf

Most of their powers are purely fluff though; it's a pretty rules-light system. There's no actual mechanical benefit to switching their armour's forms, it just looks cool.

So, I did a bit of thinking, and I actually came up with an idea for a toku-themed sourcebook. It's not polished or perfect, but I think it could be a start.

--------

*incoming fucking wall-o'-text*

>>12709046
Isn't the 3rd edition basically DC Adventures now? The same game, just with a DC Universe license? Either way, it DOES have the ability to Alternate Form (remember, Captain Marvel is a henshin hero who says Shazam instead of Henshin).

>>12709372

Characters are composed from multiple different stats: Origin, Archetype, Capabilities, Skills, Powers, Equipment.

* The Origin of a toku hero talks about how they got their power and gives latent disadvantages (since every toku hero seems to only get into trouble with their abilities). Organic evolution, internal cybernetics, ancient magic, gadgets like a cellphone/wristwatch/belt, latent psionics, etc. Ancient magic's disadvantage may mean that NPCs will have a much harder time studying/helping him/her due to their strange powers, gadgets can be stolen, organic evolution causes a fuckload of pain, etc.
* The Archetype is a one-sentence summary of their dynamic based off typical toku personalities--the hot-blooded newcomer, the sullen rebel, the cheerful teamster, the patient mentor. They would act as the defacto Classes and would affect the character's Skills.
* Capabilities would be the typical Stats, Strength/Agility/Toughness/Mental/etc.
* Skills would be, well, skills. Little extraneous stuff they have knowledge of, like vehicle driving/maintence, medical knowledge, bits and pieces of the occult, etc.
* Powers would be typical martial abilities that the hero has (which is a default power for everyone) as well as the extra abilities that they can do. Kabuto's Clock Up, Blue Stinger Beetleborg's telekinesis, Den-O's Form Changes, the super speed of the GoOngers, etc. This would also be where players would craft a seperate Hissatsu Attack from a different pool of stats--this is where you'd get your Rider Kicks and the like.
* Equipment would be, well, equipment. Diend's gun, the Power Rangers Battlizer, etc, that gives them an extra edge in combat but runs off of "Momentum" (more on that later). Players who don't want physical equipment and wanted to be strictly hand-to-hand could have internal Equipment that enhanced their punches/kicks/jumps/defenses/whatever whenever.

> continued

>>12709380

Combat would revolve entirely around the concept of Momentum. You use your basic martial arts to build Momentum, or maybe you do stylish shit, or maybe you build it up over time...but whatever. The more Momentum you have in combat, the longer you can use your Equipment to deal more damage to enemies.
Larger, nastier enemies would be unfinishable by normal attacks--they'd only reach 1 HP and stay there, and the only way to completely finish them off would be with your Hissatsu Attack.

I think the idea of Momentum would keep the combat from being just round after round of punch/kick, and it'd also simulate those scenes in Toku where a badguy/hero comes in and just WAILS on the opposing side.

>>12709385
>>12709380
>>12709372

Hmm. Could use polish, but it's a start. I don't agree with a character's personality affecting the things that they know, though.

Maybe the Archetype could affect something else? Or maybe throw away the Archetypes entirely.

As for momentum, what if the enemies were capable of gaining momentum as well, and it became a tug-of-war of things PCs/NPCs could/couldn't do? It'd add some strategy to things.

>>12709411
I imagine that's pretty much what was intended for Momentum, yeah.

So far, I rather like it. I definitely support the idea of custom Kamen Rider and other sorts of toku RPGing.

>>12708872
I mean could you walk me through it? I'm drunk and this is all greek to me. I have a Second Edition Core book right here with me.

Bumping so that others might chime in.

>>12709364
>image
People as a whole tend to be fine as long as they don't die.

>>12709380
>>12709385
...
Wow, someone's actually going through with it.

What kind of mechanic should be involved? Dicepool? Number-adding?

Playing cards! Barring that, stick with like...I dunno, a d20/10/ system.

>playing cards
i'm pretty sure the cards were only used in...dragon knight (whatever the japanese version was) and decade?

>>12709533
well. i'm not a mas/tg/er, so i can't contribute much to this thing but opinions. i think a dicepool, with its higher number of random features, would provide a more random result which could make things more fun at the expense of sometimes making the players look like bumbling fools. dice-adding would be less exciting and provide less random results, but it'd also put things more in control and make for less catastrophic failures.
i think?

Blade, Ryuki (Dragon Knight), and Decade, I think.

And out of those, only Blade had actual playing cards in the hearts/spades/diamonds/clubs sense. And there was no presence of them in Sentai/Metal Heroes/Ultraman.

Yeah, playing cards a no-go.

>>12709647
Mm-hmm. Unless you, like...wanted to make another henshin hero with that sort of theme, anyway. But yeah, I'll stick with playing cards as an RPG mechanic in my Deadlands games, thanks.

>>12709600
>make players look like bumbling fools

Idea-poster here.
Considering we're essentially doing a grown-up version of playing pretend, that may not be an entirely bad thing. Though considering the idea of "momentum" and trying to control it, more random results might not be a good idea.

>>12709683
True enough there.

There should probably be different levels of Momentum gain/loss for various actions in combat--not all of which would necessarily need to be attack-related, either.

stopping to taunt or deliver a speech about justice/evil/persistence/futility offers the most momentum (depending on how good/in-character it is) while opening yourself up for attack?

ignoring battle to accomplish secondary objectives that are infringing in the area of conflict?

>>12709863
>stopping to taunt or deliver a speech about justice

yeeeeeeeeeeeeees

>>12709896

Idea-poster here.
Thanks for the ideas and input, /tg/, I'mma head to work now. Hopefully this stays alive until I'm back, but I'm gonna try and think up of more ideas to share once I return.

>>12709896
Oh man, they don't make em like Stronger anymore. There was that one episode where he was doing his speech WHILE the thugs were trying to jump him and he was slapping em out of the way and kept talking.

>>12709385

Hey, I was posting as Testuo01 on RPG.net. I'm glad you like the concept of 'Momentum'- The fights in the shows always begin with hand-to-hand combat, then weapons, then a final, shattering attack. Momentum is to give a 'mechanical' way why you don't bust out XTREME or your Rider Kick at the very beginning.

How exactly are cyborgs handled in Mutants and Masterminds?

>>12709991

Same dude again; Generally, Riders don't improve significantly from episode-to-episode, until their mid-season upgrade. This begs the question on what you can spend your XP on.

I'm wondering if something like Skill Tricks might be more appropriate- Something like 'Once an encounter, or once an episode, your next attack hits particularly hard' and so on. Like the Seishin in the Super Robot Wars games, there were powers that prevented you from taking more than 10 damage for the next attack, allowed you to temporarily increase your accuracy- That kind of thing.

Also, possibly a stunt mechanic might be relevant. Exalted has the 'gain one/two motes' per round for stunting, which might a steady drip-feed of Momentum. Fights should build up to a climax.

Maybe you have a permanent momentum stat, which is your normal score at the beginning of the fight- Building it up should be prohibitively expensive, however, so you can't bust out the F-F-FINAL ATTACK LAIDO at the very start of the fight.

Weapon attacks/hand-to-hand combat are the most effective way of building momentum. To use a recent example- When Accel's swinging his heavy Engine Blade around, he's gaining Momentum with each hit. When he gains enough, he either A) Changes to Trial Form B) Activates his Engine Memory C) Runs over his enemy in his bike form or various other flashy things.

In contrast, enemies should be able to use their impressive powers right off the bat- Or at least for a while.

>>12710021

if you have high strength because you're a cyborg, or you're a mutant beast or you just think it's cool, you just buy high strength or the super strength power... same with everything else really

Generally, the feel of most Kamen Rider shows is that the heroes are the underdogs until they gain the upper hand.

Also, rules for mooks, which should be more of a distraction, and a way for the main characters to get some Momentum, before the final battle.

A thought I'm toying with- Perhaps completing objectives through the session, before the end-of-episode clash- weakens the kaijin of the week? Usually, Riders only manage to beat them after getting their shit wired tighter together. Or temporary boosts, and the like.

>>12710059
Kabuto definitely felt like the opposite of that. He dominated most everything.

>>12710079

Gah, Kabuto. Excellent designs- I like TheBee and Kabuto's suits- Terrible, terrible plot and horrible characters. The story would have made so much more sense if Tendo himself was a Worm. But goddamn, the man was annoying to watch. He was the definition of a boring invincible hero.

>>12710079
True enough, but from what I understand Souji was just that damn good--he started the game at a higher "level", if you will.

>>12710107
I loved Kabuto, actually. He was never boring to me because he always held his friends to his ridiculously high standards and helped them to grow and become stronger. That and the secondary characters were really entertaining.

>>12710079
That's because he was based on Stronger

>>12710107
Eh, I kind of liked him. He was a bit of an ass, but he had style.

just do it in hero system, it works for anything.

>>12710107
>Kabuto
>horrible characters

No. No. Tendou was a fucking smug asshole like no other but Misaki was awesome, Torekodo was a boss and a true brother in arms even if he was just a normal guy, my best friend kaGAAAAAmi was a true hero, Tsurugi was funny, kept the show interesting and had a fantastic farewell episode, Daisuke was awesome when he showed up and the Hopper Bros were so cool they need their own show.

>>12710159
Manly tears were shed for the Hopper Bros

The game also clearly needs to have a random name generator for your mandatory evil bad guy organization (Black Satan, Smart Brain, etc...)

Mutants and Masterminds mixed with Exalted-style stunting (toned down by a factor of 10) is what I am getting from this thread. It is not a bad jive.

Stamp of approval for this thread

>>12710368
http://home.hiwaay.net/~lkseitz/comics/herogen/

Villain Team

>>12710475

>>12710475
Man he's gonna need the whole bottle of Visine for that!

bump in hope that this will be here tomorrow.

>>12710475
no villain burns hotter than Mr Titan!

>>12710784
>eighty thousand times hotter than magma

>>12710906
he ends up hotter than the sun having reached 480 million degrees

I wonder if a sort of corruption mechanic shouldn't be involved. Most Kamen Riders are, in some way or another, the product of the very group they're opposing.

Fuck yeah. Always wanting to play a Kamen Rider in a game. Could never find the right one.
Shocker great leader is the best leader. Though he died in the weirdest way.

>>12711217
how is it weird?

>>12711222
Something explode above his head. He just fall down. Then he explode(?). The Kamen Rider didn't even touch him they just remove his KKK hat.

>>12711233
that was only one of many deaths, he's an eternal being of otherworldly evil and terror who takes many forms

>>12711247
He return again? at which rider? I only remember V1, V2, V3, Riderman, X and Amazon.

Spirit of the Century. Adapt that shit.

Seriously, that system is one of the best things I've ever had the pleasure of playing or reading.

>>12711258
EVERY series up until Super-1, then in the ZX special and then supposedly as the Crisis Emperor from Black RX

>>12711262
Its generic version is called FATE, innit?

>>12711286
Wait all of that was him? Mindblown.

Well, I'm to bed, fellow Riderfags. Pray that this thread does not 404 over the night.

>>12711311
He admits as much at the end of Stronger when he appears before them as the stone giant, which is kind of weird since there was little indication he was involved in X and Amazon's affairs, but there you go I guess.

>>12711321
Wow. What the fuck man.

Also best Kamen Rider Era (IMO).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zsg3-0cBgMk

>>12711328

http://www.tubedubber.com/#hUC3Hxc1rkI:pfi4ikSuSmA:0:100:0:0:true

Well, I don't know if a system will ever come from all this talk, but I'll definitely be making a traditional henshin hero in my next Mutants and Masterminds game.

>>12711332
That's awesome. Fuck yeah Kamen Rider. V1, V2 and V3 is best rider (IMO)

BESM third edition
Out of print, but might still be available in pdf form.
Or go with Mutants and Masterminds.

>>12710034
If you're not stunting you're doing something wrong. This is true for Exalted, this should be true for JusticeRPG.

>>12710127
I liked how Kabuto was amazing at everything. It was just so funny to see him try to interact with other people at a lower level. He was a jerkass, yeah, but he's a jerkass I just couldn't hate.

Idea-poster here. Incoming wall-of-text:

>>12712885

Base gameplay for the most part revolves around the d10, while combat revolves around the d20. I figure that out of combat things would be traditionally more in control and the character would be able to think/act/react better, while in combat things are more hectic and chaotic--not entirely random, but the characters are less in control of things.

Actions in the basic gameplay are determined in the traditional way. d10 roll + appropriate skill + appropriate capability. Combat I'm still trying to work out, but a very shaky idea would be d20 + strength + move/power accuracy + Momentum spent on accuracy VS d20 + Agility + Momentum spent on dodging/absorbing?
An even shakier idea is the idea of people having multiple attacks per round and defense rolls are fairly low, in order to simulate the typical scenes where there's a lot of punching and blocking at a fast pace but not a lot of actual dodging.

As for character stats and other such fluff...
> continued

>>12712896
ORIGINS:
- Organic evolution: You were previously a normal human being, but genetic tinkering or a strange disease or just a sudden spurt in evolution has given you powers far beyond mortal comprehension.
(Example: Kamen Rider Shin, Kamen Rider Gills)
- Internal Cybernetics: Human blood no longer fills your body. Or perhaps it does. Either way, your body is host to machinery that replace many or all of your squishy internals.
(Example: Most Showa Kamen Riders)
- External Armor: You need to physically don your suit. Maybe it's too big or bulky to carry with you, or maybe you can whip it out in a flash, but either way it needs to be actually put on.
(Example: The FIRST/NEXT Kamen Riders, Kamen Rider G3/G4)
- Ancient Magic: Mystical abilities from alternate dimensions, from the heavens, or from ancient civilizations...long thought dead, mysterious but powerful, you command them for your purposes.
(Example: Kamen Rider Agito, Erexion)
- Handheld Item: Maybe you have a cellphone that summons things, or perhaps an ancient and enchanted armlet, or maybe a simple belt. Either way, activating it summons powerful armor atop you.
(Example: Most Heisei Kamen Riders, Rescue Heroes, most Super Sentai)
- Creature Bonding: You work with another being to help you out--together, you're stronger than one. Whether it's fully alive or just barely there, either way it's a sentient being that has chosen you.
(Example: Ultraman Jack, Kamen Rider Kiva, Kamen Rider Ryuki, Ryukendo)
- Natural Abilities: Be it because of your alien race, skill in mimicking human forms, or sheer force of will, your transformations and abilities are entirely natural to you.
(Example: Ultraman Leo, Kamen Rider Hibiki, Lion-Maru, Ambassador Magma)

> continued

>>12712898

CAPABILITIES:
- Strength: How well you do in physical hand-to-hand combat. Of course, this is a requirement for all tokusatsu heroes, so I'm thinking the default should be fairly high?
- Agility: Your ability to move/leap/dive around effectively both in or out of combat. Also a requirement for most toku heroes, doing the constant moving that they do. Affects defenses? Movement?
- Toughness: How many hits can you take before you go down. Affects total HP, like with Constitution.
- Persistence: Each hit hurts, and each hit hurts bad. But how much does each hit hurt? Affects armor and defenses, reduces damage of incoming damage.
- Resourcefulness: Of course you can punch and kick. But what else can you do, if the situation doesn't call for it? Affects Skill points and most non-combat rolls.
- Justice/Wickedness (could use a unified name?): Whether you're trying to convince someone of their inner goodness or trying to corrupt someone into following a darker path, you won't get far if you can't talk your way out of a paper bag. Counterpart of Charisma, basically how much you're a bro of good/evil. Affects Momentum gain/loss and some non-combat rolls.

BASE MOMENTUM: Strength + Justice/Wickedness * 5?
BASE HP: Strength + Toughness * 10?

> continued

>>12712916

SKILLS:
Seperated into two branches, Vital Skills and Useful Skills. Vital Skills are the prominent stuff that could really affect gameplay: driving, medical ability, stealth, etc. Useful Skills are the stuff that would be nice to have and provide possible gameplay quirks, but aren't game-changers: alternate languages, obscure knowledge, lockpicking, etc.
Two separate pools of points, both based off the Resourcefulness stat, so that people can't only buy up Vital stuff.
Each skill is associated with a stat, which adds to the respective roll.
VITAL SKILLS:
- Vehicle Handling
- Medical Ability
- Stealth
- ...?
USEFUL SKILLS:
- Languages
- Niche Knowledge
- Lockpicking
- Performance Arts
- Sciences
- Gaming (Sports/video)
- ...?

And that's it for now. I'll admit I'm not the LEAST bit familiar with Exalted, so I'm afraid I don't know how Stunting should/would work.
What's the system like in Exalted?

>can make gameplay rolls based off how much of a bro of justice I am

Fuck yes.

>can make gameplay rolls based off how much of a bro of justice I am

I am also interested.

the Japanese indie kamen rider game

>>12712921
Let's take a Dex+Melee roll to swing a sword. Let's say that's 8d10. Remember, Exalted works on a modified ST system, so it's like in WoD.

Doing something okay is +1 dice. 9d10, and regain two "motes". (Think MP. They fuel your Awesome.) Think of a cool flip or disarming maneuver
Doing something insanely awesome is +2. 10d10. 4 motes or 1 willpower. It's like Erroll Flinn type acrobatics.
Doing something EPICALLY awesome is +3. 11d10. 6m or 1wp or 1xp. This is the shit you save in a .txt because of how awesome it is. This is Westley's "drop your sword" speech from The Princess Bride. This is the Ninth Doctor threatening to wipe every last stinking Dalek out of your sky. This is whenever the Eleventh Doctor makes a speech.

Not sure how long it's been, bumping just in case.

> Momentum spent on accuracy
> Momentum spent on dodging/absorbing

ehhhh. potential for abuse here, not to mention it doesn't really fit with the source.
the idea behind momentum is that you save it up for those big powerful finishers/weapon usage, right?

there needs to be some sort of cost to add it to normal rolls in order to hit/defend, or else there's nothing stopping people from going "wait, he dodges? i'll add more momentum!" "what? no! i'll add more momentum to my dodge!" back and forth.

>>12713111
Yes yes yes. This would be perfect for a Rider game. There's doing something, and then there's doing something for JUSTICE.

Bike-Fu like in Kuuga?
Using the coffin of Great Leader as a hiding place to ambush like in Ichigo?
Popping up right where the hostages are kept like in V3?

I have no clue how it'd work for idea-guy (+1 bonus? +3 bonus? +5 bonus?), but it really should be included.

>>12714396
Its important to keep in mind that in regular Exalted the only reason stunts are relevant is for the free motes and XP -- all you really are doing them for is in the hopes that you'll get a 3 dot stunt and get a bonus XP sometime. When you roll a hundred dice a round, an extra 3 isn't otherwise meaningful.

A thread about this is the LATS I'd ever expect to find on /tg/
Godspeed

How would you take different forms into account? Every Rider worth his salt has multiple forms and the all-important super form. As mentioned earlier, you could spend a ton of Momentum to assume a different form, but there's the question of balance, since ultimate forms are usually ridiculously powered.

Also, since these forms are dependent on Momentum, how about using good roleplaying to gather Momentum? Like, say a Rider is battling the final boss and he gets the shit kicked out of him. Dramatic speech, rise up triumphant, henshin, final form, end his ass.

>>12714656
>Every Rider worth his salt has multiple forms

>>12714674

Okay, you got me there. Even so, I bet someone will want their multiple forms. I know I would.

>>12714696
>>12714656

Idea-poster here.
That's one of the bigger things that's confounding me. Not every single Rider has an alternate form, but it's certainly one of the biggest draws of modern toku--not only in Kamen Rider, but also Super Sentai and Rescue Heroes/Force and the other one-off series.
The problem is how to make it so that people have alternate forms to tackle different situations while not punishing the single-form players for sticking with a single form.

This is a very shaky idea right now, but I'm thinking forms would be best as either powers or equipment bought as part of character creation and/or with the EXP equivalent (assuming that the EXP equivalent will work normally). Instead of making a single form more badass, you're providing yourself with options to do different things in different situations.
For example, W could do far more things than V3 and could take on situations that V3 couldn't dream of, but V3 is overall more stronger due to his experience/development/etc in a single form.

But that still leaves absolutely no basis for how to go about the super form, not to mention it'll probably discourage people from taking too many alternate forms if it results in a weaker character.
Hmmm. What are your thoughts, riderbros?

>>12714809

Perhaps forms could have their own point pool that slowly burns depending on the form. Form Points recharge slowly on their own, but you can spend Momentum to get more back. You need a ton of Momentum for instant Form Points, though, to hopefully encourage proper form use.

This way you still build Momentum through battle, then you can immediately dump it into a Form, build some more Momentum (can't buy Form Points with Momentum while using a form, of course) then end it with a final attack.

Should there be come kind of in-game benefit you receive whenever your theme song is playing?

>>12714893
how would it actually work? people bring a boombox to play their character's theme?

>>12714867
I assume the benefit for single-forms is that they don't need to burn momentum for Form Points?

>>12715204

Well, since they don't need Form Points, they don't have to ration Momentum like that.

>sees this thread still lives

I love you guys.

I do like the idea for stunts a la Exalted in this sort of deal. Though perhaps the dicepools themselves should be on average smaller than Exalted's (L5R-sized, maybe?) so that the stunts have more of an overall impact?

>>12714867

Also, there should be out of combat ways of gathering Momentum, so someone can turn into a gun-based form and snipe in a non-combat situation, if need be.

>>12716045
Definitely. Supremely epic speeches, death-defying stunts to rescue somebody, and so forth.

This homebrew is still for World of Darkness, right?

Idea-poster here. Decided to try my hand at a combat flowchart to expand on the system even more. Has a lot of gaps and things left unaccounted for, but it's a start.

Mook combat I think would be a modification of this, except
1: Heroes always have initiative,
2: Roll for Actions would be Roll Number of Enemies to Attack.
3: Every Mook dies in a single hit.

>>12716255
Nope. Toku is way different from WoD, both from a thematic and technical standpoint.

>>12716322

Well, now, things get a biiiiit more complicated if it's a full-fledged normal system. Best to make it some kind of supplement, I think.

>>12716322
>swapping out/activating equipment takes 3 actions

eeeeh. some people really rely on their equipment. i'd change that to 2 or 1 actions.

also, 2d10s? why not just use a d20? in fact, why not just use a d20 for the finisher as well, since it's supposed to be mighty and awe-inspiring?

>>12716322
>dat chart

Sadly, I have nothing to contribute, but I do have a few questions.

1. Where on the internets would I need to go to watch Kamen Rider in English? Subs are fine, but I don't understand moonspeak, and am still extremely interested.

2. Has this been archived yet?

3. When it's finished, will there be a PDF/1d4chan entry?

>>12716469
1: Well, there's a lot of drama going around about how to "properly" sub Kamen Rider, but generally where you'll get the most is at tvnihon.com--they ain't perfect, but they've got the most. I'd suggest starting with Double or Faiz.

2: how do i shot archive

3: Up to the idea-guy, but I'd be in support for it.

Making an archival request now

>>12716469

Your best bet is to hunt Veoh. I've seen subbed episodes of Double there, and right now Tacobar/Over-Time over at /m/ offers weekly torrents and subs of Kamen Rider OOO. OOO is pretty new, so I'd jump in now to avoid being overwhelmed. It also has the AWESOME Cakeboss thread every week, so be sure to check that out if you watch OOO.

Wonder if there should be an advantage for having a transformation trinket with a voice that can make women swoon.

Standing by~

>>12716722

You can be damn sure my trinket's gonna have a cool announcer.

do you get any bonuses for being ronery?

>>12716722
>>12716912
Hmm. What sorts of things would be in an Advantages/Defects list?

Advantage:
Awesome-as-shit transformation.

Defect:
UNABLE TO LOVE~

>>12717158

The Orponoch weakness comes to mind.

>>12717194

You mean where you're supposedly the next form of evolution... except you actually have a vastly reduced lifespan compared to normal people and will probably disintegrate in a matter of years once you become one?

Although, I will admit that the that PRIOR TO THIS HAPPENING the fact that you basically can't be killed except by another Orphenoch possibly does sort of lend weight to the theory.

>>12717158
You run the risk of crushing people if you're not careful

I love what I've seen so far: We need to define exactly what Momentum can be spend on. It means that the Rider is getting more 'Fired Up' as the battle progresses, so...

1.) Can be spent on Attacks. (Or Techniques.)
2.) Can be spent to boost attack rolls/soak damage. (Maybe you're limited by your 'Justice' stat- You only can spend so much on boosting each turn, to prevent you from buffing yourself tremendously.)
3.) At a certain threshold, you can use it all to transform into your alternate form, which is a boosted version of your ordinary one. The more powerful your alternate form, the more Momentum it costs to transform.
4.) To use your Finisher, which should have a certain amount of damage, just in case it misses, or it's not enough.


I've read through Tokyo Heroes, and here's an idea that's interesting: Monsters have an Energy gauge, which they spend from. To be thematic, enemies are the wave the hero crashes against, and they start out at something like full power. Building up Momentum allows them access to their more powerful attacks.

I'd say we shouldn't worry about trying to imitate *all* the tropes. I'm certain that stating out Double and his multiple forms, Decade and his Attack Rides, or OOOs and his multi-part abilities, would be a headache. Going with 'Normal form, then mid-season upgrade' seems simplest.

Maybe you can 'bet' Momentum on an action; For example, you say 'I bet three momentum that I'll get at least three successes on the action...But there has to be some way to stop people from betting a lot on 'one or more successes'.

>>12717245

I didn't like Faiz too much, but the suit designs are the sex. Psyga is arguably the second-best movie Rider, after Skull. The Delta Gear looks fantastic, but it went to the biggest idiot in the show.

Also, I believe it's implied that the main character hasn't got much longer to live when the show ends; He's decaying like the others.

>>12717458

Or the forms could be cosmetic and you simply use Momentum to afford temporary, seperate powers.

>>12717664

That's certainly true. Upgraded forms are rarely substantially different, barring a bonus attack or two; Ryuuki's Survive Form basically had more cards. Accel Trial had super-speed, and a different finisher (Less armor, too, but why quibble.) Faiz Accel was limited super-speed again.

Cosmetic changes for different attacks sounds good to me.

>>12717711

Of course, the players are still changing forms to use these powers, and when they get these forms the first time (unless it's a guy like OOO or Double) hyping it up is expected and can get bonuses.

There's another idea - extra Momentum or dice or whatever for hyping up the first appearance of your new power.

How would you handle ingame something like Stronger's CHARGE UP where if you don't go back to normal within a minute you explode?

v3 just got a shitload of momentum~

>>12717782

Well, maybe a disadvantage. It does damage if your...I dunno, if it doesn't drop beneath a certain threshold? Or 'Have this much Momentum by the end of power-up, or take damage'? Interesting idea, but we should focus on playability first.

What are the core stats of the proposed system?

>>12717866
V3 is ALL momentum

>>12717889

>>12712896
>>12712898
>>12712916
>>12712921

I think there's one vital issue we haven't given much attention to

the actual RIDE the Riders are riding

How do vehicles work in M&M?

>>12718102

I'm sure you build them with points, basically.

>>12718102
Dude, get the M&M book off /rs/ and read it yourself.

Still, to answer, vehicles are super gadgets or devices that can have their own powers. You can get them with a hero's gadget or device power (I rarely remember which was what) by spending power points on them.

>>12712921

Idea-poster here. Maybe I should use a tripcode or a name or something.

Couple more Useful/Vital Skills ideas:

Vital:
- Area Navigation
- Discourse
- Sixth Sense

Useful:
- Mechanical Maintenance
- Animal Empathy
- Cooking
- Cleaning

Also, as for the capabilities.
If we're using a d10 for rolls (which, again, could change), I think the average of the stats should be around the 6-7 area. That way, people can affect more negative rolls with their stats, but they can't brush off a natural 1 completely.

With that in mind:
Default starting core stats:
Strength: 5
Agility: 1
Toughness: 1
Persistence: 1
Resourcefulness: 1
Justice/Wickedness: 1 (still need a better name)
- 20 points to spend
1 - Average Human
2-4 - Above-average Human
5-6 - Superhuman
7-8 - Inhuman
9-10 - Godlike

I'm tempted to say that each point in Resourcefulness gives you two more to spend in Skills, but I think that can wait until the list of Skills is completed.
Also, I think I heard mention that people would be interested in a flaws/advantages thing?

>>12718403

I say Strength should start as 1. Some Riders just aren't as strong as others. I'm pretty sure Riderman didn't have any enhancements beyond his arm, so he had to fight more strategically. It could also encourage street-level Riders, like Kazuya Taki, the Skull Rider from Kamen Rider Spirits.

>>12718403
yeah, strength should start at 1 with an extra 5 points to spend. 1 strength isn't "bad", it's just an average human being. they're not being frail or weak, they're just not getting enhanced

>>12716322
I'd add something onto the finisher for what happens if the Finisher DOESN'T defeat the enemy. You need more than a basic Rider Kick to take down the Checkmate Four or a Dark Rider. For basic monsters, yeah it'll do them in, but for times when the Plot Says No.

>>12718746

For ease of Finisher use, I'd also rule that when most monsters hit 1 HP, they're stunned and wide open to a Finisher, which auto-hits. (This gives the Rider a chance for some post-battle Momentum by doing a cool final attack.) If it takes the heroes too long to fire a Finisher, they regen some of their health and it has to be lowered again before a Finisher can be landed.

I run a Kamen Rider RPG myself, and I have to tell you that I wish I thought of choosing Momentum as our system first. We started with M&M 2E, and things bogged down, combat-wise, because it's very hard to pin everything down since each Rider was drastically different from each other and things got broken right at the character creation (horribly overpowered characters overshadowing underpowered ones, etc). We decided to make it as rules-light as possible while putting Rider conventions (taunting, speeches, the storyline) at the forefront, and it's been fun so far.

Our Stronger just forced our Kuuga-in-Training to get to Titan Rising by beating him up with a baseball bat. Brutally. Our OOO was murdered by Dark Kiva by being sliced in half with the Zanvat sword in mid-henshin, and now the characters are investigating her death.

>>12718931

>Our OOO was murdered by Dark Kiva by being sliced in half with the Zanvat sword in mid-henshin, and now the characters are investigating her death.

New rule: henshins cannot be interrupted with attacks. It's a trope I think needs to be kept.

>>12718931
Wow, that's like...Spirits level grimdark, bro.

>>12718931
>Our OOO was murdered by Dark Kiva by being sliced in half with the Zanvat sword in mid-henshin, and now the characters are investigating her death.

BULLSHIT!

>>12718973
>henshins cannot be interrupted

This.
This this this this this. A million times this.

>>12718974

The game is actually pretty light in terms of mood, just that there has to be stuff happening like this (and it was a great shock to my players when I pulled that off). Our OOO was a scientist, and Dark Kiva was an antagonist NPC who snuck into her lab and killed her while she was off-guard.

>>12718973
It's a good trope to keep, but at the same time it's fun when you turn the tropes on their head. Our Showa Riders, for one, experience crippling pain just after they transform, due to their bodies being temporarily replaced by cyborg ones. And Heisei Rider transformations are pretty easy to interrupt (heck, look at Faiz). That can happen in a game, and it ups the tension when it does.

>>12719077

Optional trope, then, but there should be a STRONG suggestion to use it unless all the players are fine without it.

>>12719123

Make sure to plan it out with your player first especially if you're dealing with plot stuff, rather than just a random encounter.

Also, if you're going to let players pick from the canon belts, you should declare right at the outset that the ones that mess with time (i.e. Den-O/Zeronos/New Den-O) are off limits. Trust me on this one.

>>12719077

Interesting. I generally go with all-original Riders in my game; It's more fun that way, and prevents the whole powerlevels comparison.

If I recall correctly, Kerebos fought with twin electrified nightsticks, Dio with his flip-out handphone that became a lightsaber, and Ixion with piston-driven powerfists.

A house-rule was that you could burn a Fate point, when attacked, to shake off the impact and emerge in your Henshin'd form, unharmed. Attacking someone untransformed is an incredibly good idea, though I think it was only explicitly done in GARO- Kodama tries to attack Kouga during his transformation sequence.

>>12719077
>light in terms of mood
>PC gets randomly killed by an assassin when she least expects it and isn't even able to henshin to save herself

Um...well if your players are cool with this I can't really fault you on any of it, but nevertheless...

>>12719252

Forget to mention, she was an NPC, but the PCs really liked her for some reason. But yeah, I guess it was sort of grimdark.

>>12719196
Ah, I see. I went with canon gears because while original gears are always awesome, it's definitely a good feeling for a player to play as Kabuto, or Decade, or any of the main riders.

>>12708168
>nobody said it
Well I'll have to do it then.

HENSHIN A GO-GO, BABY

>>12719288

We'll definitely have to include premade Riders to run with. The more notable Showa and Heisei Riders should be fine, highlighting certain builds like multiple forms (Double) or street-level (Riderman) or cybernetics (Rider 1).

Momentum shouldn't be expended to perform finishers, because that will makes battles take forever because players will expend it to dodge/make basic attacks stronger.

Instead, you keep track of current momentum, but also total momentum accrued in that battle. Momentum is spent as normal, but activating a finisher comes when you hit a certain total momentum, regardless of how much you spend.

Thinking about it; The Showa-themed Riders have a more consistent origin- They're almost entirely cyborgs. Heisei riders are more like the Final Fantasy series; Tangentially related, but not *really*.

For sample characters...

Rider-1: 'Balanced' build.
V3: 'Technique' build
Riderman: Low-augmentation, high Skills build
X: First Rider to use a melee weapon.
Stronger: First Rider with a ranged attack, Electric elemental.
Skyrider: Alternate movement mode- Flying.

For Heisei, the following have a single unique gimmick, and are likely easier to stat out:

ZaBee: Super-speed Rider, one ranged attack, no other gimmicks. I'd say Kabuto riders, in general, have to be nerfed, otherwise they'd devastate everyone with CLOCKUP.

Kaixa: Boosted stats, major Disadvantage to the belt.

Psyga: Heavily armed flying Rider.

Skull: Example of an 'experienced' character.

...And so on. I always liked the Delta armor, myself.

>>12719350

One problem you have to contend with the momentum-based finishes is what if the Rider needs to pull out a finisher right at the outset, during an emergency or hostage situation where they can't actually spend time dodging and fighting. The traditional Rider fights are good, but it'll get stale. Also, you have to remember that current Heisei Riders (Decade and Double, most of all) often used their finishers at the outset.

guys

guys

we need to handle the most important question first:

women as riders
y/n

>>12719422

For Clock-Up, we limited its use to a specific number of rounds or actions. We also appended the disadvantage that it takes a lot out of the character, and they're stunned for a round or two after it.

>>12719474
Yes

>I'd say Kabuto riders, in general, have to be nerfed, otherwise they'd devastate everyone with CLOCKUP.
I dunno; Decade has Form Ride Kabuto, Accel has Accel Trial, and OOO has the Cheetah leg-medal. They're hardly alone in the superspeed department.

>>12719422
Actually Rider 1 was supposed to be the 'skilled' one, Rider 2 was meant to be the strong one and V3 was supposed to be the balanced one

>>12719494

Yes, but gamewise, you don't want Superspeed to school everyone else...Or it'd become essential to the build. It's a balance issue, to be honest. And admittedly, in-series, superspeed is rarely the answer to everything: Faiz's Accel form didn't work too well on the final bosses, and the Utopia didn't just beat Trial up- He SET HIM ON FIRE.

So, balance issue. We need a system where Riderman can kick ass with the best of them.

>>12719288
Ahhhh, okay.

>>12719475

I agree with this. At least with Faiz Accel, it's a Form power and thus requires Form points to assume. There's also the ten second limit built in. Since it's been declared that Start Up = Clock Up, why not make Clock Up ten seconds as well? (to the Rider, that's still several minutes.)

And remember, if a Rider has a broken power, the GM should always use monsters to counter it. Remember that Kabuto needed Clock Up to handle Worms.

>>12717491
>>Psyga is arguably the second-best movie Rider, after Skull.
>>Skull
>>best movie rider

That's a weird way to spell "Orga"

>>12719474
Hell yes.

The only other problem now is the subject of powers. If we're not gonna just be a simplified Mutants and Masterminds supplement, how can we easily address powers while keeping them balanced?

I've been following this thread for almost 24 hours and I don't know SHIT about Kamen Rider, help me learn, /tg/. Is there a series I need to torrent first? Stream it from some website? I just need a name really. Where do I start?

>>12719843
V3 torrent is on Demonoid

Amazon is here: http://www.freewebs.com/hinotorisubs/downloads.htm

Stronger is being subtitled here, they also have Kuuga: http://midnightcrewsubs.blogspot.com/

Everything else you can find at TV-Nihon

>>12719843

I started with Kamen Rider Double, so I suggest that. You should find some subbed episodes on Veoh.

>>12718403
>Justice/Wickedness: 1 (still need a better name)

Devotion? Passion? Zeal? Vehemence? Intensity? Fervor?
Though I've got to say I'm sad at losing the prospect of making a Justice roll.

>>12719877
Yeah I think it can stay Justice for heroes and Wickedness for villains, converting one-to-one should there be a face heel turn or vice versa.

>>12719877

Well, Justice/Injustice is clearly the way to go here for good/evil Riders. Injustice should cover a lot of evil Rider stuff.

>>12719916

Speaking of villains I think we've neglected that essential part of the Rider universe. I'd like to see what kind of bad guys /tg/ could come up.
The old villains were really something to behold, like Nazi commanders and Heath Ledger's ghost.

>>12719877
I'd say 'Conviction'
It's a measure of how strong your beliefs are.

>>12720061
Well, Justice/Injustice would make for cool rolls ("Roll for JUSTICE"), but it's a little complex and wordy.

Conviction has the same general impact for both side, I think, and it's got a really cool sound when you declare you're rolling it. ("Roll for CONVICTION")

>>12720111

Well, keep in mind you're only calling the trait "Justice" if you're good and "Injustice" if you're evil. The words aren't too different from each other, yet still distinguishable and basically meaning the same idea, except reversed.

>>12720011
I once had an idea of a hiveminded kaijin race that was sort of like a cross between those dudes from Stargate Atlantis and the Tyranids.

>>12720197
Holy fuck that actually sounds kinda scary

>>12720278
Yeah. Imagine if Synapse Creatures could talk and acted like typical toku villains, and their underlings were...well let's face it, pretty much just as bad as the various gaunts and genestealers and whatnot.

>>12720317
And one thing to remember is that in Kamen Rider, the regular mooks and monsters actually tend to *fuck people up really badly*.

>>12720317
I am officially terrified of this. Especially the idea of a rubber suited zoanthrope gesturing about before mindblasting things into oblivion.

>>12720345
You been on /tg/ too long.

>>12720345
And now I'm imagining a massive psychic telekinesis blast meeting the force of a Rider Kick in mid-air and a struggle of forces ensuing.

you obviously aren't from /m/ because no one worth a damn from /m/ likes this toku bullshit

>>12720393

Welp, here I am with a name. Now I feel like I'm trying to proclaim myself as important or something. I feel dirty. Quick, someone call me a faggot!

>>12718746
Momentum for the character isn't spent, bad guy gets a bunch for resisting and looking awesome during it?

>>12718845
This is a pretty nifty idea. Really gives the urgency of "He's weakened, take him down now!".

>>12719350
That's one of the problems I keep coming back to, yeah. That solution could work, but trying to keep track of another number not represented by the actual momentum might make things a little complicated--not to mention puts more weight on the GM!

>>12719438
What if in those such situations there was an option that the player could sacrifice HP or something in order to pull it off?

>>12720393
For the love of god, let's not drag that shitstorm into other boards, shall we?

>>12720411
So, how do we roll dice anyway? Are we going with dice pools? WoD style?
>Captcha: Justice ousany

>>12720011

There's Starfish Hitler, too. Can't forget Starfish Hitler.

I say the Masquerade Dopants really stand out in their stylish costumes...And some end-bosses are spectacular. Apollo Geist is rad, as is Shadow Moon and other evil counterparts.

>>12720461
Looks like we're going d10 and a d20.

>>12720491

SIEG HEIL! STARFISH HITLER.

What the fuck.

>>12720687
And Spider-Napoleon

And Ant Capone.

>>12720815
Another great example of the serious nastiness Kamen Rider villains tend to do to folks. One minute you're fine, the next YOU ARE SPIDER NEST

>>12720892
>>12720815
>>12720687

you are fucking kidding me.

what next, genghis khan-dor?

>>12720902
in one of the later episodes of the first series there was a monster who breathed poison smog, he went down below an apartment building and found the gas pipes and breathed into it, so that whenever anyone in the building went to turn the gas on the stove they were murdered. They then show the whole apartment full of skeletons.

>>12720915

>>12720915
>Genghis Khan Condor (ジンギスカンコンドル, Jingisu Kan Kondoru?, 22, Movie): A Genghis Khan-themed Condor monster. It was destroyed by X's X Kick. Genghis Khan Condor was later revived in the movie and killed by the 5 Riders.

>>12720942
>>12720945

brb

>>12720945

I REGRET EVERYTHING.

Are...are spiders eating that man's face?

>>12720930
This is why I like Kamen Rider. It's just grimdark enough to appeal to my fa/tg/uyness, but at the same time indulges my love of HEROICALLY FIGHTING FOR JUSTICE.

>>12720983
The First and The Next fucked up because it lost the good balance between them

>>12721013
Too much grimdark and not enough JUSTICE, or the reverse?

>>12721060
Too much hamhanded grimdark, no justice at all, boring fucking subplots that take up 45 minutes of the movie. Also Hongo was a bitch and Hayato was an asshole.

>>New rule: henshins cannot be interrupted with attacks. It's a trope I think needs to be kept.

"Think again!"

>>12721073

I love Heisei but god DAMN I hate this new "pretty boy" trend.

At least Shotaro was awesome as fuck, and Eiji is turning out to be pretty bad ass. (refusing to henshin until the guy who is responsible for letting you stops being dick, WHILE falling to your death? Awesome.)

>>12721136
Yah, he even topped out Ryotaro, who just allowed himself to have the shit beaten out of him while in Plat Form.

>>12721150
>>12721136

W and OOO seem to be hearkening back to Showa where the guys could kick ass even when not transformed.

>>12721183
Yeah Eiji certainly is quite willing to get up in a Yummy's grill even without the suit on. ...Not that he does particularly well most of the time (though he did actually knock down the glutton Yummy), mind, but even so.

>>12721074

Goddamn piece of shit

Attacking Greymon and Kabuterimon during their digivolutions.

>>12721183
>>12721212
This should be an Advantage, I think. "Surprisingly Capable: The Rider has training in the martial arts or from other sources from his normal life and thus possesses sufficient fighting skill to be far from helpless even untransformed". Perhaps it would let you gain a capped number of Momentum points from attacking as a human, or perhaps at a reduced rate?

>>12721268
That's a great idea actually, hell that's part of why Ichigo was chosen by Shocker in the first place

Is this archived yet?

>>12721344
I put a request up on 4chanarchive.

>>12721136
Well, technically speaking, it's because of a cultural thing in Japan. It's not because they're beeeautiful or sexy, like some people think. In Japan bishounen are seen as the epitome of manliness, because they know that they are a man deep down--even if they look feminine. The "sexiness" is just a bonus.

Basically, Shoutaro and Eiji? It'd be akin to putting Dolph Lundgren and Mr. T as Kamen Rider in the West.

Next time we do this it should be about Ultraman

>>12721420

Jason Statham would be an awesome Kamen Rider Accel.

>>12721446

>>12721420
Also in Japan the more masculine a character is the more he's interpreted as being gay, like Zangief.
Despite this, Fujioka is like a god over there and he only got manlier as he got older.

>>12721183
>>12721212
>>12721268

Actually, this is something to consider. All sorts of Showa is about fighting and kicking ass even unhenshined, and even some of the Heisei guys do it. And, of course, it was a major point in Super Sentai, and pretty frequently in GARO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3U150Ic7Sk - (Ignore the uploader comments. Seriously)

Something I was thinking. While un-henshined, your stats are halved--not gone, but halved. You can still fight, but at a weaker point. The Monster of the Week is out of the question (unless you're desperate), but you can still take on the henchmen.
Are you required to fight? Not at all. But if you want to fight, you can.

Curious if there should be a reward for it, though, or if it should be a "sure, if you want" thing.

>>12721500
>While un-henshined, your stats are halved--not gone, but halved.

Round 'em up and you got a deal.

>>12721500
would that be half of 'base' form? assuming youre a rider that has multiple forms like they all do now
take den-o for example. would that be half of the 'plat' form, or half of the specific imagin's form? or would it depend on which one was posessing?

>>12721536
For Den-O, I'd almost be tempted to say that certain stats stay the same when it comes to Imagin possession. Remember M-Ryotaro still has super strength et al even without going Den-O Sword Form.

>Round 'em up and you got a deal.

Can do.

>>12721536
Well. Forms are a little problematic in conceptualization, but it would probably be half of the "Main" form. In Den-O's case, that would likely be Sword Form.

Anybody else wondering how long it'll take before somebody attempts a Kamen Rider series set IN SPAAAAAACE (tm)?

>>12722138
Super-1 was the astronaut Rider and in Spirits his chapter takes place on the moon

>>12722159
Hah! Awesome.

>>12721420
>Mr. T as Kiva

Somebody mentioned Exalted earlier in the thread--there's a pair of Abyssal charms from Ink Monkeys now that, when used in full, pretty much allow you to do Kiva Emperor Form's Zanvat Sword finisher to the letter.

>>12717711
OH OH OH OH!

Maybe alternate forms are just package swaps?

You build your rider form package, but you can buy an alternate form that swaps these things out as long as the total for whatever you bought is the same? Players could build a basic all around form then a SUPER FORM which is essentially just a ridiculously minmaxed form that can only do the one thing well(and become boned if their super form's gimmick isn't working). That generally seems how various shows like this work. The super forms can do the one thing awesome.. but only that one thing.

You have to buy the superform for a minimal amount of xp(discouraging having a form for EVERY OCCASION but allowing variety) and switching takes a small amount of momentum (to likewise allow you to switch but discouraging rapid swapping so you have to make hard choices on what you're doing).

Sorry for being late to the party,

but could we have a summary of the Momentum system thus far?

>>12722628

Well. Keep in mind this is still in the middle of being conceptualized, and the finer points are being debated over/suggested over, but here's what I've got so far.

Momentum is based off the idea that battles in toku typically get more and more intense until the climactic finish.
Design-wise, it's mainly a mechanic designed to keep people from doing their finishers right away. As you fight, you gain Momentum--you can use this to do cool stunts in combat to do more damage, or you can build up to a finishing attack to blow away an enemy once they've become weak enough.

People liked this idea and now it's probably going to be the core gameplay mechanic of the entire thing--there's all sorts of suggestions to make it a non-combat thing or that you can gain more in ways other than just fighting, and that it can affect other things than stunts and finishers.

One idea that's gotten a lot of support is the idea of making a profound speech/declaration of good or evil/inspirational wall-o'-text nets a lot of Momentum, which is really fitting and really nifty from a gameplay point--how it'll work outside of combat isn't really touched on yet, though.
Oh, also that Momentum gain/loss is affected by someone's Justice/Injustice/Conviction (whatever the final name ends up being) stat in that they gain more and lose less, but how this ends up actually working dunno yet either.

I'm just writing down everyone's suggestions/ideas (including my own) and seeing what the most common threads are.

>>12722746
Out of combat this is the first thing that comes to mind and I know this doesn't help at all. All I can think is doing it BEFORE a combat to try and prevent it from helping (diplomacy, intimidate, whatever,) and getting a huge bonus to the combat if a combat starts anyway because your side is already pumped with all the MOMENTUM.

>>12722243

I-including the sword masturbation? Because I'm down with that.

>>12722885
Heh, nothing preventing that bit from being part of your stunt for the attack, I suppose.

>>12722159
>>12722192
>>12722138
Not just on the moon, he kept a shuttle from breaking up in fucking atmosphere with his own two hands.

>>12722994
Pic related

>>captcha: starlark security
Sounds like a good name for a heroic organization!

>>12722994
>>12723003

>>12723019

Wait till you see volume 13. The big bad has the equivalent of Decade's power- Except with Showa Riders. He fights ZX through the ruins of an alternate world, switching from Rider form to Rider form, and laying the beatdown in impressive ways...Until ZX realizes the trick.

The other dude only has the physical characteristics of the Riders. He doesn't have their accumulated experience and growth. Then ZX grows to gigantic size and crushes him with one punch.

The bad guy's 'final form' is a gold ZX with a cloak, though.

>>12723060
Niiiiiiiiice.

I dunno if this has been archived yet, but I sure as hell hope it has.

Giving this one last love bump before I check out for the night.

>>12721500

Here's what I think about this - basic "human" forms should be built with their own tiny point pool, because even those have different capabilities. The cyborg Showa Riders still had their exceptional strength outside of their suit, for example, and then there's the Oni from Hibiki. The henshin simply adds points to stats when it's activated, boosting beyond the normal level, but it's still possible for a Rider to have amazing power in his human form. Any points you add to the human form are subtracted from the Rider form, of course, and may or may not include powers. Above all, though, what you can add to a normal form is limited - most of the power still comes from your Rider form.

Bump for great justice (heh).

Also I raise a question: do you think this system we are discussing here could be applicable to all Sentai style roleplays, and not only Kamen Rider ones? I find the core to be pretty similar, with the possible exception of giant robots. But I have no idea how we could make that work.

>>12724070

Adding giant mechs to the equation definitely sounds like supplement material. Let's nail the core rules first.

Another bump for justice! While we're still fiddling with the mechanics, maybe we can also flesh out some fluff? I definitely want to include some influence from Henshin: The Change myself.

BTW, that name is so fucking cool that we should use that as the name for this thing.

Holy shit.. this thread is still going...
Has /toy/ gotten involved yet? Those guys have spooky encyclopedic knowledge on all things Kamen.

Also, since the topic has drifted away from use of the nWoD storyteller system, I want to toss this idea out there.

Most WoD venues run with one theme, often broken down into specific archetypes, then broken down even further with different clans, organizations, powers and so on. (Changeling > Fairest > Flowering > Spring) Take the same idea and apply it to Toku-style heroes.

That way you could have Rider style heroes that break down into the different examples like cybernetic, mystical, natural, alien, technological, etc etc. At the same time, you could allow for sentai style heroes that break down in a similar way but gain access to different powers.

>>12724986
/toy/ hates every Rider made before the year 2000

>>12724994
Which is entirely understandable, because the later riders have copious amounts of merch. Sentai even more-so.

Anyway, I love the idea of having rider belts from different thematic backgrounds and with different abilities in the same setting. A technologically-based rider sparring with a magical one, and then the two teaming up to fight a rampaging mutant rider. And then suddenly a time-traveling rider on an armored warhorse drops in and shit really gets crazy.

>>12725206

Well, "crazy awesome" should definitely be one of the optional game tones. I'm thinking grimdark (Spirits/FIRST and NEXT), light (Den-O), medium (Double), and heavy.

>>12724994
... or so they claim as they all horde gaia memories and pre-order more OOOs toys

>>12724541
Henshin? Yes. The Change? No.
"Henshin!: The Tokusatsu RPG"?

>>12724070
Don't see why not. Aside from the giant mechs, it's really quite similar. But yeah, let's nail the core stuff first before we get into any branching.

>>12724986
>Most WoD venues run with one theme, often broken down into specific archetypes, then broken down even further with different clans, organizations, powers and so on. (Changeling > Fairest > Flowering > Spring) Take the same idea and apply it to Toku-style heroes. That way you could have Rider style heroes that break down into the different examples like cybernetic, mystical, natural, alien, technological, etc etc.

This could go somewhere.
There was a list of origins written up a while ago, there just wasn't any idea of what to do with them. Organic evolution, internal cybernetics, external armor, ancient magic, handheld item, creature bonding, and natural abilities. There was talk of giving them various disadvantages/quirks, but that didn't go well.

How does WoD handle it?

>>12725620
>creature bonding

we talking literally merging like in ultraman or a emotional bond like in kiva/ryuki?

Why not either?

>>12725583

Well, whatever it's called, I think I'll keep "Henshin: The Change" as a personal petname :V

>>12725648
A symbiotic relationship, like that of Venom, would also be very interesting for a rider. A suit of alien armor that needs a human to survive, and a human that needs the alien to fight off villains.

>>12725711
sup

Great ideas goin around! I love it, so its now archived, enjoy!

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/12708080/

Quick idea: 0 HP doesn't mean death, just that you get booted into human form and can't transform back for a while.

>>12725915
This, I like.

>>12725915

That could be good, but there still has to be the threat of death. I daresay most monsters can rip up a human pretty easily. Cyborg Riders can still fight decently, of course, but they should still have much lower HP as a human.

>>12725823

>>12725959
>>12725915

I like both avenues.
I think this would be good expanded with the idea earlier about human forms have halved stats, and another idea about it being a separate advantage.
In the powers selection/advantage selection/wherever of character creation, one option is Capable Human Form--if you get conked out of Rider form, you can still fight at halved stats (rounded up). Or you can start fighting at a human form and then henshin later.
Human forms without it have a meager 10 HP and can't really fight much at all.

If either human form get to 0 HP, splorch?

(Since it's basically a get-out-of-death-free card, I'd think it'd need to be prohibitively expensive to get)

>>12726243

I still think most of the power should come from the suit. There should definitely be a viable option for suitless fighting, but most of the time Riders still need to henshin for basic mooks.

>>12726243
could work.

sounds like it'd be more appropriate in a point-buy system for powers/abilities like in BESM, Champions, or M&M.

IT STILL LIVES.

I do like the idea that getting 0 HPd in Rider form just causes an effect like the Errors in Faiz and boots you out of your henshin.

>>12726700
Well, yes. The emphasis is still on fighting in your armor, and you'd be insane to take on the monster-of-the-week/final evil empire dude without your armor.

But for occasional use, or for people who want to be like Showa Riders? I think an option would be good.

So, crazy idea.

Finishers are constructed from three different parts: The Build Up (which is the start sequence that activates it), the Action (what leads up to the actual finisher), and the Impact (when/how the blow connects). Each part must be bought separately, each part is optional, you can have multiples of a single part--but it MUST have at least one Impact to be a Finisher.
The more parts you have to it, the more you spend on your Finisher to develop it, and the less Momentum you need to actually use it.

At level one (assuming we go with traditional levels/EXP), characters have only one Finisher. As they advance, however, they can purchase more or expand on a single one.

BUILD UP:
Charge Up, Utilize Device, Summon Being, Summon Item, Environmental Effect, Armor Tweaking, ????

ACTION:
Jump, Lunge, Sprint, Teleport, Fly, Reach, Weapon Brandish, Glow, Spin, ????

IMPACT:
Punch, Chop, Kick, Knee, Elbow, Weapon Blast, Weapon Strike, Energy Blast, Energy Strike, ????

For example, Double's Joker Extreme would be Utilize Device > Environmental Effect > Fly > Kick.
Kamen Rider's iconic Rider Kick would be Armor Tweaking (belt spinning) > Jump > Spin > Kick.

>Armor Tweaking
Needs a better name, not really clear what it's supposed to be. I'm assuming this is when you're doing stuff actually on the armor, hitting switches/buttons or the like?

>>12727137

Eh...do we really need to complicated Finishers like that? I'd rather have it so it deals a certain amount of damage and has effects with the Momentum required derived from that. How it's done doesn't really affect the results.

>>12727137
i like it. i don't think it's complicated at all, but i think it'd be better to have it as an option - let people make their own if they want, or go with one of the generic defaults.

>>12727307
sorry but lost myself a while ago

can someone resume the most important and relevant things?

I think it'd be cool to create your own finisher like that, and it'd help if people have no idea how to go about it.
I'm not sure how it should affect actual gameplay, though. On the one hand, having it be mostly cosmetic means people aren't punished if they don't think of an awesome badass sexy one. On the other hand, people who DO think of an awesome badass sexy one probably should be rewarded for using it in some way.

>>12727433
Isn't the fact that the enemy's dead and people are safe reward enough? What kind of ally of justice are you?

>>12727444
Weeeeeeeeeeell...

>>12727137
I like it, that sounds awesome!

So for shits and giggles how do you do kamen rider in DnD?

I totally want to bust a rider kick out on an orc.

>>12727583
some kind of paladin or something

>>12727349

Well, here's what seems to be the general consensus so far. We've been making some great progress, but there's still a lot of ground left to cover.

Basic gameplay overview: d10/d20-reliant, emphasis on gaining and keeping "Momentum".
Character creation: Origins/Core stats/Skills presented (Origins lacks a gameplay effect), powers/advantages/defects/abilities/etc discussed with no real consensus on how to go about it.
Character development/advancement: Undiscussed.
Non-combat gameplay: Undiscussed.
Combat gameplay: Flowchart presented, couple comments about how it seems nifty.
Items/Lewt: Undiscussed.

>Non-combat gameplay: Undiscussed.
Er, correction. Discussed, but briefly.

>>12727612
I personally believe "Loot" is something that has no place in Kamen Rider.

Unless you're playing Faiz or something, then your loot is someones belt probably.

Also, on character advancement, I'd say they maybe get to throw a point or two at their ability scores or skills after a session, but at about a "Midway" point for the campaign they get their powered up form and get a much larger boost in stats and powers.

>>12727601

can you smite with your feet?

>>12727612
what if we use a simple as possible only d10 system or even d100 system

in a d10 system like exalted, simplified btw no ticks and shit,we can have attack, defense, damage etc. no stupid amounts of health and armor serves its purpose... to reduce damage

>I personally believe "Loot" is something that has no place in Kamen Rider.
Semi-agree. I think the only "loot" should be mission-critical stuff or macguffins. The villains aren't really (usually) interested in making a profit, and the heroes are (usually) more interested in saving people than getting personal gain.
(except for maybe Kamen Rider Yen, but that's another subject for another time)

If you REALLY need to go about getting money or cash or items, you could probably RP it instead of having it be an actual gameplay mechanic--a loot rush would go against the entire theme.

>>12727712
Is it true that Kamen Rider OOO is more or less an official version of Kamen Rider Yen?

>>12728062
Kind of, yes. There are SO many similarities it's not even funny.

Though that gives an argument for some kind of loot. Stuff that would only upgrade the players as missions go along, a la OOO's medals or Blade's sealed Undead?

>>12728127
Might be smart. Also...should we be starting a new thread? This one's close to autosage.

>>12728242

Make it so, good sir.

I highly recommend against introducing mecha at any stage, supplement or otherwise.

All that does is repeat the process. The big bot fights go the same way the small fights do. You start out with low or no MOMENTUM and stick to the small moves. Gradually building up to your BIG FINISHER. Why would anyone want to have the same fight twice? Once to max momentum to beat the small form. Then AGAIN to do the big one.

And, since the robots will inevitably combine, only one person can actually do the fighting for the group in the second stage.

Regular fight. Finnisher. Spend the majority of your momentum to summon your robots. Optionally spend the rest to combine them (sometimes the sentai team tries to slug it out with the normal robots, which would just be a way to pump up more momentum so you can finisher as soon as you combine).

Bleh. Keep it to the small level.

Also, how about just having riders with alternate forms be a way to get discounts on finishers? Maybe it uses less momentum or just needs less xp to get a powerful finisher if you have the disadvantage of having to change forms first.

Changing could leave you vulnerable for a second. Just donning the suits doesn't usually get that elaborate, but changing to ULTRA FORMS tend to be hyped up sequences. How vulnerable and for how long would have to be discussed in depth though.

How is that?

>>12728450
I don't think I agreed with a single one of your ideas.

Just because you don't like how the mecha fights work in sentai doesn't mean other people wouldn't want rules for them.

And Alternate forms will be overpowered enough as is without giving them MORE bonuses.

For those following, new thread here:

>>12728455