Right now i have only a conception, but i try to print it out as best as i can.

There a two powers in this world: Lucha and Libre. Lucha is related to material world and Libre - world of thoughts. Fighter with much Lucha and little Libre is just a chaotic superstrong thug, who keep a killing everyone who weaker than he. Too much Libre and too less Lucha - and fighter is more like a weak peasant who will stand against all odd for protecting his ideals.

Balance of Lucha and Libre is vital for Luchador.

This sounds crazy in all the right ways

Mucha Lucha: the RPG?

i'm getting a very fist of the north star idea for visuals, correct me if I'm my vision is wrong, OP

It has its heroes, but now you need to define the villains, and by doing so, describe the varying camps/schools/etc., such as:
>Técnico
The craftsmen who develop new techniques, tactics, strategies and the arenas in which the fate of the world (or just a legal battle) will be resolved.

You can see where this is going.

I think the Rudo/Tecnico spectrum would be better than Lucha/Libre. A Rudo is typically a villainous wrestler who's all strength and little technical ability, a Tecnico is the by-the-rules sort with strong technique. Have it operate on a morality scale akin to light side/dark side, like some techniques are only available if you're enough of a Rudo to handle the raw berzerking strength, some are only available to Tecnicos who have the precision and grace to pull it off?

I like the idea of masks being what unlocks a warrior's true power, too. Without a mask you're just a normal man, when you put the mask on you're a muscle wizard who can reshape the world.

Mask, name and costume.
If someone decide for becoming Luchador, he needed a mask. He can find mask, with hopes of leftover power of previous owner, or create a new one, empty.Creating a mask very difficult task, because a mask is vital part of connection to the Lucha Libre, magic of this world. Then, when mask is ready, a future Luchador must have a new name. Name is vital for powers. Name and mask must be a compatible - the more they are, then more your potential. Costume its is not requirement element, but proper costume can hone your skills.

cont.

>>18910439
cont.
Old masks, hoverer, sometimes contain a great rare powers. But they are rare, because many of the mask when they owner dies lost all power. But some, mask of greatest Luchadores, can become a container part of that power. But if someone find mask like that, must be wary - they are very difficult to control and hone, and sometimes they may even becoming controlling you, draining you life energy.

But mask of defeated, hoverer, is another problem - you cannot wear it, but you can use it to extract all her power, making you mask stronger.
Tearing apart a mask it's most vicious sin what can ever be for Luchador - raw power of Lucha Libre just... disappears, tainting soul of defiler, twisting his mind...

>>18910438
hm...Rudo\Tecnico much better i think.

>>18910642

I like this. If the mask is the source of power than demasking someone becomes worse than just losing your honor as a luchador, you lose all your powers and can never again enter the sacred arena of champions.

I feel I should point out that there's a long and rich tradition of luchadors fighting random monsters in movies like Samson vs the Vampire Women (to name the one that wound up on MST3K.) You can save the evil luchadors for boss fights, let the weaker monsters and post-apocalyptic raiders be the bread-and-butter of your encounters.

I really dig the idea of there being a third axis of absorbing rival luchadors power/destroying the mask as a method of twisting one's soul into some sort of evil luchador. Maybe the rudo/tecnico isn't a dark side/light side axis as much as a Renegade/Paragon like in Mass Effect? If they're different shades of heroic that will allow rudos and tecnicos to fight side by side in a player party.

Just setting the mood with some highlight heels of some Luchadores

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zM488qXX2U0&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErayzV-4yTE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aF-9Xr6FkrM&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3OpJnNFkNs&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brdEp5Gue94

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAoQPFms_fU&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wG45sr5qUzU

Also some American Masked Wrestlers

The Ultimate Heel & The Blackest Man in Wrestling Super Dragon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCd3xFNQoQI

The Ultimate Babyface "The Generic Luchador" El Generico
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0ihls4MsdY

So there would be only Two Stats?
Rudo and Tecnico?

Rudo and Tecnico i see more as replacement for "classes". All of the skills and powers are available to everyone, but depending upon your score in Rudo or Tecnico, you only have access to a certain selection.

The trouble I see with that is if someone is too balanced between the two paths. So maybe a third deterministic stat, some kind of charisma equivalent? (no hablo mucho espanol)
It could be like the flashiness or crowd appeal of a maneuver. What it lacks in punch it makes up for in show.

>>18910905
>can never again enter the sacred arena of champions.
But then you throw out all the stories of redemption and revenge.

>>18911180

Maybe it works more like classes? Every (x) points you can gain a new rudo or tecnico technique from their talent pool? There needs to be enough variety for an entire gaming group, it seems like having only two classes would mean a third party member is just a duplicate of one of the other players. Maybe introduce Gimmicks that would act as elementary prestige classes?

I'm a little out of my comfort one on this. Any wrestling fans got a better idea for how to handle that?

Also, I'm not sure about stats. This seems like a goofy stripped-down kind of ruleset, so I'm thinking three stats at most. Honor, Strength, some third wrestling thing?

>>18910905
How about doing so that when you are demasked, you lose all your powers, you are dishonored, and your mask becomes incompatible with yourself.

But its still possible to find a new mask or make a new one, and start again.

This way, we can open up for stories of redemption, stories of revenge, multiple villains who murder and steal peoples masks in an attempt to regain their power.
Maybe even a fallen guild.

>>18911375

That....that's an excellent point, actually.

>>18911346
The term you're looking for is probably Tweener as as far as i know, there isn't a spanish term for it.
so just to explain with American Wrestlers
Tecnico:
Rey Mysterio, John Cena
Tweener:
Stone Cold Steve Austin, Current CM Punk
Heel:
Kane, Umaga.

But then again, Tweener is a really vague thing. As Kane will always be cheered for IWC everywhere, Cena will always be hated, and every loves CM Punk be face or heel

People continue to wrestle after losing mask bets, I don't really think your character should become useless just because they got demasked.

>>18911431
A gathering of Luchas who have once fallen from power and grace, in their desperate search to return to power, they created a guild (or whatever you would call a group in this setting) with likeminded "failures". Their objective is to gather masks of other luchas, either to replace the one they are using with a stronger mask, but also as backup if they were to lose the one they have. This way, if you defeat one of these villains, they would be able to return, although the next times they would have different abilities.
They

What's all this discussion of classes? This would work much better with a classless system like Storyteller instead of shoehorning it into standard d20. Various luchadore-themed traits and merits could easily stand in for learnable techniques and other stuff. It would also allow players to build their lucha exactly the way they want, instead of struggling to split luchadores into several classes.

The biggest modification would be having two power stats instead of one.

>>18911398
>>18911346

Combining those two (I wrote 398), the stats could be Strength, Honor, Charisma. Rudo techniques work best when powered by strength, Tecnicos will want honor, and your prestige class talents would use some combination thereof.

Say BODYSLAM is a level 1 Rudo technique, the damage would be D6 + Strength. If a Rudo takes the Aerialist gimmick he would gain access to high-flying moves like that crazy shit where you leap onto someone and flip them. Damage there would be D6+Strength+Charisma. If a Tecnico took the same class it would be D6+Honor+Charisma.

Make sense?

I am monitoring this thread.

It seems to me that refluffed Legends of the Wulin would be perfect for this.

I know VERY LITTLE about lucha, would someone mind giving me a crash course?

>>18909986

Jesus, I was absolutly certain that OP´s title was Lichadores: Power of the Lucha

>In my mind
>Lucha-liches
>mfw

I´d play that. I´d play the shit out of it

>>18911497

346 here. Makes sense, I like it, but does that mean there's no chance for a purely charisma based character? (I have very little understanding of wresting, american or lucha, so idk if such a thing is applicable)

>>18911496
I agree, merits and feats would be funner. But trying to break what would be a massive list of techniques into a few general categories would give players some apples-oranges decision to make.

>captcha: sizesigh and
Size, sigh, and what captcha?

/r/ing that one guy who made a luchador orc that pinned a dragon

>>18911581
>mfw yfw

Fuck yeah the Colony

>>18911575
Pro Wrestling styles varies around the world, and one of the main one is Lucha Libre.
Focused on Masked Wrestlers, Lucha Libre is focused on High Aerial capabilities and complicated and beaultiful moves.
REALLY popular on Mexico & Other Latin American Countries, Luchadores are something akin to Saints & Demons walking on earth to big part of the population. They're massively popular, and their mask is such a huge deal that is actually some of the most famous Luchadores keep using them even after retiring and only showing their faces rarely.
The arguably, biggest Masked Luchador "El Santo" only showed his face once and was buried with his Silver Mask.
There is also of course Luchadores who don't use Masks, and Luchadores who lost their mask can still become a huge deal on the wrestling world.

Check some of the videos
>>18910931
posted to get an idea of some of the aerial maneuvers a Luchador can do

http://youtu.be/dPvuVhEC07U

>>18911720
Also
They have Midgets and Drag Queens.
And they're AWESOME

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brdEp5Gue94

EVERYONE should watch this video for AWESOME Midget High Flying

>>18909986

>duplicate file detected
next best thing:
>>18906010

>>18911765
thanks, that's what I was looking for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sqoY0hCOTU

Oh Mistico...
I miss when you're only a internet highlight heel and not someone botching everything on WWE

>>18911581

THIS. This is the villain for the encounter that will come with the rules.

>>18911614

I guess not? I'm kinda flying by the seat of my pants here.

>>18911496
>>18911551

I'm not familiar with either of those systems, I'm afraid? Also I was shooting for "ridiculously easy to pick up and play with a minimum of work."

>>18911962

When he's good, he's the best lucha in the business. But he's just so sloppy.

>>18911581
Isn't Undertaker basically this?
But without the mask

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuncDIiMBSI

Just an idea what may happen when a Luchador lose his mask.

>>18912101
That talk about rules for losing the mask made me think of sort of a structured showdown for one's mask/costume
though.. I think thats been done

>>18912469
Maybe just something like a mask challenge? When one luchadore issues a mask challenge to another, it's a matter of honor and refusing makes you look like a coward. The loser is obliged to give up his mask with no resistance, and the winner can do with it what they choose. You can come back for revenge, but refusing to give up your mask after losing a mask challenge would be a mark of dishonor.

I seriously suggest trying to see some of Chikara Pro's "King of Trios" tournaments.

They are a pretty small company in america but they have really close ties to some of the best japanese companies and most importantly in my opinion they have a sense of humour.

That is something that "the big companies" ... well big company and TNA ... are totally lacking in. They are far too serious.

Having some comedy parts to matches also means that if something really amazing fight wise happens afterwards it is more impressive because of the emotional swing too.

A lot of their shows are just 1-200 people in a small hall, but their highlight events are upwards of 700 and are 3 consecutive nights.

Also Bryce Remsburg is awesome.
http://youtu.be/D-ck7M-nyxY

>>18912611

Maybe that can be how intra-party fights get handled? I like the idea of the boss fights (Lichador!) having some of the trappings of a mask challenge but with a more high-fantasy soul-wagering feel to them.

>dat feel when no matter how many times you end up in a campaign about wrestling, all your characters are inevitably Sabu

>>18912469
You Mean a Lucha De Apuesta?
In a Lucha de Apuesta you bet you mask/hair against another wrestler Mask/Hair.
Is the most important match of all Lucha Libre

>>18912706
Thats...Kinda sad

The amount of good old fashioned awesome insanity this concept carries puts a smile on my face. What is the purpose of the Luchadores? Or is it just thier fate to be a living part of the battle of good and evil?

GLORY. HONOUR.

AND TO BECOME THE GRAND CHAMPION OF THE WORLD
>One of the Grand Champions Divino Lizard

>This whole thread

Anyone have a handy list of wrestling moves or somesuch? I'm trying to put together a basic movelist but beyond "bodyslam" and "suplex" I don't know much else.

>>18915928
Wiki has a very nice list. As a /wooo/kie, I can help you out with quite a bit.

>Nobody's posted this yet.
/tg/ I am dissapoint.

>>18915928
Honestly, we should just post templates and stuff.
There is no way you can post ALL wrestling moves, as there is countless variations.
you should just separate into things like
[slams]
[drivers]
[suplexes
[Drops/splash]
and [Holds]

Then you buy things for moves like
straight jacked
Fullnelson
pumphandle
Wristclutch
and other things that would give bonuses to the moves

There is this guy who made a second home under the giant soil mixing machine (it looks like a Mortal Kombat death trap) at the greenhouse I've been interning at. He's an awesome, short Mexican man. In his makeshift room, there are pictures of luchadors. It turns out he was once luchador. They called "Blue." It's not a very identifiable name, considering that it's hard as hell to find a luchador named JUST Blue with so many named Blue _____.

Also, walking around I was hit with a flier that read "SON OF SANTO." I wondered if it was a legit legacy luchador or just some poser. I didn't check ot the event, so my story ends here.

>>18916038

Much appreciated! So far I'm thinking of focusing Slams for Rudos, Suplexes for Tecnicos and then assigning a mix and match of the rest to the Gimmicks.

Anyone have ideas for gimmicks? I've got Aerialist for the high-flying moves, beyond that I'm just looking through Wikipedia for inspiration.

I'll work on this more tomorrow, I've gotta get some sleep.

>>18915928
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_wrestling_attacks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_wrestling_throws

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_wrestling_holds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_wrestling_aerial_techniques

>>18916137
In professional wrestling, heels often use a slower paced style, such as restholds, ground based submissions, stuff that slows the match down. This is because it bores the crowd, and gets them to boo the guy more.

The babyfaces or tecnicos use faster and flashier moves, ones with high impact, because that's what the crowd likes to see.

That doesn't describe their styles entirely, but is a general rule of thumb used by wrestlers.

>Make a thread about wanting to do a Luchador inspired character in Pathfinder the other day
>3 replies
Well now that I've got a thread with people actually interested in a Luchador theme, anybody care to give me a hand?

Going with the whole Rudo/Technico thing and in a similar vein to >>18916170
I figure a 'Rudo' would likely be a Barbarian with the Brutal Pugilist archetype, and a Monk with the Tetori archetype would be fitting of a Technico style.
But what really has me hung up is what kinds of feats can best replicate the high flying acrobatic moves of Luchalibre? With all the grapple based feats replicating things like pile-drivers, submission moves, body-slams, take-downs, and the like isn't all that difficult, but how does one replicate something like a senton, moonsault, or a diving elbow? or strikes unique to wrestling, like Dropkicks, and Enzuigiris?

>>18916137
The main wrestling styles are something like
Monster
High Flyers
Technicals
Dirty
Brawlers
And Showmen

Yeah, in my opinion the SvR styles are a good general view on most wrestling styles.

>>18915963
I just scanned this thread to see if someone posted it. This is my second time browsing /tg/, the first time (a week ago) I found that picture.

>>18916412
This was posted in the first thread

>Wall Climbing (Ex)

>Beginning at 4th level, a monk gains a climb speed equal to her fast movement bonus. So at 4th level, she gains a climb speed of 10 feet. This increases to 20 feet at 6th level, 30 feet at 9th level, 40 feet at 12th level, 50 feet at 15th level, and finally 60 feet at 18th level. As a creature with a climb speed, she gains a +8 racial bonus on all Climb checks. She must make a Climb check to climb any wall or slope with a DC higher than 0, but can always choose to take 10, even if rushed or threatened while climbing. She retains her Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) while climbing, and opponents get no special bonus to their attacks against her.

>Wall climbing replaces the monk’s slow fall class feature entirely, not just at 4th level.

Hermanos! The Devil has built a robot!

But yeah, i've somewhat noticed things got somewhat more realistic in the last posts.
The idea still is something kinda like Kinnikuman right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4C4VVNwmB0

video related?

>>18916412
>>18916515
Building on that, if a Luchador Wall Climbs and attacks by jumping down on an opponent the dive move can be replicated by applying the 'On Higher Ground' +1 bonus to melee attack rolls, or by taking the 'Death From Above' feat which grants a +5 bonus for attacking from higher ground.

This thread inspired me
have a lucha

>>18916412
>Feats that can replicate: Pile-drivers, and submissions
such as?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=K6gdyiLZxJ8#t=109s
What I imagine to be the battle music between two Luchadores.
The wrestling in this must be as over the top as the characters themselves. it's not a simple elbow drop, he uses his element to boost his elbow drop to something crazy: i.e. a Luchadore of the earth would have the ground beneath his opponent come up to meet him. Or the ground would rise up underneath the Earth Luchadore, and he would leap from it's peak, elbow extended.

>>18916860
>Submissions
Stunning Pin (branching from stunning fist) and Bonebreaker
>Piledrivers
Jawbreaker, and Neckbreaker

This is nicely complimented by the Mantis style which grants bonuses and extra uses to the stunning fist ability

>>18916889
Two luchadores wrestling on top of a ruined skyscraper, every blow shaking the structure itself.
Finally, one grabs the other's arm, and spins. Round and round he goes, the very clouds parting above him to shine a single ray of light upon his victory, and then, he lets go with one hand, and in a single deft motion, tears off the mask of the beaten warrior as the unmasked falls to his death. The air rips around his plummeting body, but all he can do is fall, and painfully utter a final word as he hits the ground below,
"Hermano".


Yeah. Thats what the music made me think of

>>18916804
>sentons and moonsaults
can maybe be replicated with the 'Vicious Stomp' ability (attack of opportunity against an opponent that falls prone adjacent to you) Doesn't have to be a 'stomp' just has to be an unarmed strike, so you can rename it 'Vicious Strike.' So just trip an opponent, and: bam! slam him!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTJDlOrdSCU

That moment after you defeat your rival and old tag team partner, in a difficult and emotional battle in a lucha de apuesta. And of saying anything he just sits down and quietly lets you take out his mask.
Neither you and your friend speak a word as you take his mask. After it is over he simply looks at you.
You realize.
He is no longer your old partner. He is just a normal person. Your friend is gone forever
He smiles at you, gives you a hug and walk away, into the sea of people never to been seen by you again.

>>18916915
*As well as the Chokehold feat

>>18909986

>saw thread
>read title
>archived

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/18909986/

Also, I managed to fuck up the initial upload to point to another thread, so if some of you want to head over and downvote the one that doesn't say "(real thread)" in the dexcription, I, and probably sup/tg/ as well, would appreciate it.

>>18911720
>their mask is such a huge deal that is actually some of the most famous Luchadores keep using them even after retiring and only showing their faces rarely.

I've heard about that, but I kind of doubt that's how it works behind-the-scenes. At a guess, they wear the masks for public appearances and when they want to be recognized, but when they're just running out to the store or whatever, they go without. I'd be willing to bet that there's been more than one high-profile unmasking that left some guy watching TV going "Wait a minute, I saw that guy at El Pollo Loco last week!" Kind of a cool system, actually. I like that it gives celebrities a chance at keeping a private life.

>>18917461
Well, yeah.
But you have to remember people like El Hijo Del Santo are gods walking among people.
You know how celebrities always have someone stalking them by your house?
Now imagine that you're a celebrity that CAN'T show your real face

OP here again (i just went asleep long time ago, lol.)

>>18911581
Lucha-liches...yeah, i think i can work this out.
When someone Luchador tearing apart mask of another luchador, its first step to becoming Lucha-liche: abomination, who cannot channel themselves to the Lucha Libre, they can extract power only from reaping completely masks (or hair, if you prefer). That actions get you much more powers than extracting from mask or training but its twisting your mind and soul, and later - body. They always becoming look alike a dried p corpses, but beware - if young Lucha-liche powerful and dangerous enemy.

>>18911375
that was not me, really.

Loses of mask, Hair. Redemption.
Most of fights of Luchadores look more like training if when compare to the "Challenge of honor" where is bet not just mask or hair - powers and honor of fighter. When they lose, they lost most if their power, and their mask and name no more compatible with each other, and they must begin their career (with new name and mask) again, but can do it later. Winner gets all power of loser's mask, becoming stronger and perhaps with new techniques and even powers. Not honoring bet very punishing - loser who not honor their bet suffer not only from cutting their power, their lose life energy themselves, becoming Caido, another abomination of night. But there not only powers of honor, they can challenge power of their life.
cont.

>>18917606
cont.


"Challenge of Life" it's much serious than honor - loser must retire from Luchadores, and they lose not power - but the most of the connections with Lucha Libre, getting just a little stronger than most of humans. Of this exile, if they willing to redeem their disgrace, they must challenge with powerful spirits in holy places (old worlds stadiums). If they succeeded, so they can return under new name. If not - they dies.

Of course, mask its not only way channel to Lucha Libre - hair can go as well, its just a little more complicated than creating a new mask. Future Luchador who wanted to use a hair, must have a blessing of spirits and then must grow (or make shorter) to length what spirits told. Luchador with hair is powerful like luchador with mask, but hey must maintain their hair in good conditions and length. Loser of Challenge of honor must shaved it.

>>18910438
It could be a two axis grid like DnD alignments. Only determining base stats instead of making paladins fall.

i just left it here.

>>18916137
Idea for another name for Aerialist: Angeles or Halcon.

OP here. Again.Powers compared to technique (i think):
Monster - raw powers of destroying elements (blast, fire...)
High Flyers - almost everything with air (wind, thunder...)
Technicals - shapeshifting and such (?)
Dirty - sneaky and stabby
Brawlers - enchanting their melee atacks (?)
Showmen - Mariachi of Lucha Libre. MInd control, insipiring and so on

OP, I've been working on my own system that is very similar to yours, albeit not just with luchadores but with regular pro-wrestlers too, but my system was based around maintaining kayfabe. Like if you score a critical hit, you gain a point of kayfabe. If you fail an attack roll, you lose a point. When attacked you can roll to no-sell a move - if you succeed in the roll, you take reduced damage and the attacker loses kayfabe; if you fail the roll, you take normal damage, but lose a lot of kayfabe. Or you can oversell a move - if you succeed, you take normal damage but the other player looks like a fool and loses lots of kayfabe; if you fail the roll, you take increased damage and the attacker gains kayfabe. Certain characters would benefit from kayfabe, like those with flashy moves (that wouldn't hurt in real life) such as the Five Knuckle Shuffle, The People's Elbow, and Scotty 2 Hotty's the worm. High kayfabe would allow you to do shit like Kane and The Undertaker can do, like call upon fire and darkness and lightning. Other characters don't require kayfabe, like the technical superstars who don't rely on fancy moves and instead rely on submission manoeuvres like Chris Benoit and William Regal. Then there would be "shoot" fighters who work better without the presence of kayfabe, like Fit Finlay and Ken Shamrock who could fuck people up anyway and would only lose due to kayfabe booking.

So it kind of toes the line between "pro wrestling is fake and gay" and "pro wrestling is real". Only problem is that everyone I know laughs at me for liking wrestling so I'd never get to try it out. Same reason that I can never use the WWE Know Your Role RPG I bought for cheap.

Just read this in the archive. You guys are amazing. Also, wouldn't one of the stats be dexterity?

bumping

>>18918978

Excellent point! I'll work that in, thanks.

A question for the wrestlebros out there - is there a term for when a match is going in a wrestler's favor? Like the momentum or flow or something like that? I thought 'heat' might work, but apparently heat is only something heels get.

>>18911581
>>Lucha-liches

DRAWFAGS FUCKING WHERE?!

>>18911982
That, is that a thing? Where's that from?

>yfw Mistico was in a soap opera

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uEPeYcOulw

>>18925771
I thought Lucho WAS a soap opera.

Bamping because this is a sweet thread

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zPQFtu16b0&feature=relmfu

I wish my Soap Operas had wrestling matches