To start off we'd like to ask you guys for an opinion on something.
We were thinking of introducing an alternative to the Virtue & Vice system called Calling & Ego.

Calling would be composed of general mandates an Outsider is supposed to fulfill, like 'Herald my arrival' would require to recruit a significant number of followers. 'Align the stars' would recquire a step towards bringing the patron into the world, etc.

While Ego would be very similar to (or outright copied :P) Nature & Demenor from oWoD.

The problem with this is that such a system wouldn't fit those outsiders who decide to fight or ignore their masters.

One solution would be to leave the choice to the players, an other to put in a scale of influence linked to the loss of Quiescence (but this could get complicated). Any ideas would be appreciated.

May as well give a tl;dr for people who've never heard of Outsider.

So a year ago, in a thread about imagining new nWoD fansplats, someone suggested a game about people who've been affected and corrupted by the alien gods and entities of the Cthulhu Mythos. Think of it as a crossover, with the players playing people who are slowly becoming utterly inhuman as they begin to look more and more like the Things that changed them. Maybe they serve It, maybe they choose to rebel and fight back, some just set out to improve themselves, others retreat into the Dreamlands and other places beyond our reality. And some of them just want to pretend nothing's happening.

Priorities now are getting the system's skeleton all established, then working on integrating it into the rest of nWoD and fluffing the whole thing out.

>>17247718
I've never heard of Outsider, but that sounds awesome.

I only got into WoD recently.

>>17248204

We're just a /tg/-thing, so it's to be expected that you've never heard of us. Insert a picture of a Formless Spawn with text saying "I worship Tsathoggua, you've probably never heard of him, he's pretty underground".

Feel free to have a read and see if our work's been worth it.

>>17248258
>I worship Tsathoggua, you've probably never heard of him, he's pretty underground
That's great. You're great.

>>17248258

I just realised that would have been a lot better with a Deep One and the words "I worship Dagon. He's probably too deep for you."

>>17248343
That is also great. You are also great.

I would like to say I am flushed and somewhat flattered that in the end, my name suggestion was the one which took.

I observed the project initially, and really made only one or two posts before the name issue came up in force again.. and so, I made the suggestion that "Calling" was a good name.

The suggestion was turned over a bit, then turned down by OP, as a "dubious maybe" sort of proposition. I left the thread after awhile, because I was feeling drained and not very able to participate in the creating. When, lo and behold, months later I see the name I suggested as an aside has been chosen.

That's cool, anons. I feel like my contribution was a small one, and all the credit goes to other people,
but to feel like I was a part of something is amazing.

- Thanks everybody, for your hard work and love given to this project.

I hope you didn't overlook the Mi-Go in your little homebrew. After all, they work with humans more than many of the other races.
Also, brain in a jar.

>>17248395
Every bit helps mate.

>>17248423
The Mi-Go will be stated as a Mythos Creature in the Enemies & Allies section once we come to that point.

>>17248423

Since the focus is on people becoming linked inexorably to the "gods" of the Mythos, the players aren't things like the Mi-Go, rather the Whately Brothers.

Still, one of the fluff pieces talks about a woman who becomes an Outsider after she's abducted and experimented on by the Fungi, and when we set about statting up other Mythos entities, they'll be first on the list.

>>17248395

Names have power man, coming up with one that works is very important. And I think it works, so thanks. Really.

>>17248395
>I would like to say I am flushed and somewhat flattered that in the end, my name suggestion was the one which took.

You are forgetting which website you are on.
We are 4chan, the origin of the hivemind anonymous. Anonymous' work belongs to anonymous.
If you make a good contribution, it will obviously be honored. But don't feel proud. as no one will ever credit your work as something you have done - We will only remember it as being done by the hivemind.

>>17248527
Hurf durf anonymouse is leejun. Go back to /b/.

>>17248527
>the origin of the hivemind anonymous
I've heard enough.
You haven't been here long, have you?

>>17248527
You're a faggot.

>>17248527

That ain't how /tg/ works, son. We give credit where it is due. We tend to say "an anon made X" or something along those lines.

>>17248710
>>17248691
>>17248667
>>17248568

Yeah this anonymous don't feel proud thing is silly.
I mean, why not be glad of something you made?
I think we should all be glad, because we made it together, and it seems several of these anons agree.

>>17248527
>>17248710

So, before this goes down the path of pointless arguing about the nature of Anonymous, let's get back to the topic at hand.

So, I'm guessing some people are reading the document. What are your thoughts?

One of the comments that was brought up before was how we integrate this, or not, into the rest of nWoD. The theory is that we've just taken Cthulhu and the like and shoved them into nWoD without really thinking about how they work together.

One idea is to link the Outer Gods with the Abyss, or the Lower Depths. Another is to link the Changeling's Arcadia with the Dreamlands, with the Elder Gods as True Fae. Any other ideas?

>>17248799
> Abyss
Well, when the Abyss formed a hole opened for the outside to filter in.

>>17249494

The Outside has always been there, and reality as we know it, with all of the Abyss, the Supernal Realms, the Shadow and the Astral Plane exist in a bubble, floating in what's actually real? And the Outside, the Real, is leaking in with disastrous consequences?

>>17249723
More or less
This is something I made in one of the early threads to illustrate the point.

>>17249870

Gotcha, so those points where the Abyss touches the Outside, those are the leaks, as it were?

>>17250053
>>17249870

Also, when I just glimpsed at that thumbnail, I thought it was a man with glasses and a wide-brimmed hat.

>>17250053
Yup.
You cant rip reality in half and expect it to maintain complete integrity.
As usual Mages ruin every ting. :P

>>17250089
Yeah, Azathoth sure has strange dreams.

I'm really only familiar with oWoD, and the convoluted tangle of beloved metaplot that it was. Is this nWoD or oWoD. Based on the freeform and the stereotypes I've skimmed, I'm going to guess its meant to be in the looser nWoD universe

>>17250291
nWoD
Easier to mod.

Witness a glimpse of the future!

More old drawfaggotry.

Something that we are still working on, is the possibility to regain Madness by ritual worship. While this is inspired by Demon: The Fallen that particular system doesn't quite mesh with what we had in mind.

The rough idea that a number of cultists each sacrifice a point of willpower in a ritual act of debasement and in exchange the Outsider gains a point of Madness.

Problem is that this must be balanced against all the other ways to gain Madness we already have that fit the concept just as well and the fact that in it's inception Madness wouldn't be that easy to gather.

One last bump before I head off to the Dreamlands for a while.

>>17247619
Don't change the virtue/vice mechanic. it's part of the core rules which generally stay the same through every supplement.it might make sense in terms of making the individuals more alien but it also denies the human motivation that keeps the Outsider human/allows them to become more inhuman. while the gods don't have a mortal sense of morality outsiders still have some semblance of it.

that's my 2 cents

>>17251073

Gotcha. I came up with the idea, but I wasn't really sure how to utilise it. I mean, it'd be nice, but it's a bit too much work for something that's just nice.

>>17251073
Yeah, that is exactly the point.

I shall make a character who rejects his inhuman nature and fights with all his got agains those dark masters!

And in the end he suceeds!

But not really, that is the way of the hero

>>17251700
There is only one real kind of hero.
The dead kind.

>>17251729

I can live with that

Or not

Get it?

>>17251700
there are no heros left in man

So /tg/.
Why aren't we playtesting this?

>>17254790

Because it's not quite ready. Though I suppose it might be feasible if you were willing to deal with the not entirely done list of Rejections it could be feasible.

>>17254790
>>17255007
This.
Testing at this point would be possible, if you are prepared to deal with something in a prebeta stage, but it's not a full game just yet.

Tho I suppose there is enough information in there to create NPCs, as long as the storyteller is prepared to add lib a few details if they come up.

Mage vs Outsider

>>17255175

Or, indeed, Mages versus the Mythos in general.

>>17249494
>>17255175
>>17255431
Seeing as what could be considered a minor Outsider appears in the main fluff piece of the core book for Mage the pairing seems natural.

I don't know, maybe I am getting old for this but I am not sure if personal horror mixes well with cosmic horror. If we are talking about body horror, then yes, it does but if we are talking about the introspective elements of most of WoD game lines being someone touched by Cthulhu and dealing with the drama of being tainted by an entity from beyond humanizes those said entities at some level.
Cosmic horror deals mostly with the idea of those things which cannot be explained or dealt with, no matter your magic nor science, they are beyond your grasp and makes you sunk into the desperation of being aware your sole existence as well as that of your own species is purpoless, there is not Deux machina, there is not Manifest destiny.

>>17255490

>someone touched by Cthulhu and dealing with the drama of being tainted by an entity from beyond humanizes those said entities at some level.

I'm not so sure it does. If someone's infected with radiation poisoning and slowly dies of cancer, has the radioactive force become humanized? If an asteroid crashes into the Earth and kills us all, has it become humanized?

Lovecraft's fiction, on the whole, is about people being exposed to Reality. Whether it's Johansen and the crew of the Emma stumbling onto Ryleh and leaving mad or dead, or whether it's Armitage being confronted with the Dunwich Horror, the protaganist of the Shadow Over Innsmouth discovering his own truth or poor Nathaniel Peaslee being mind-swapped. The protaganists wander out of the comfort of our world and, for a moment, they glimpse the Truth, and whatever happens, they can't go back. Although the horror's cosmic, the results and the implications are profoundly personal.

Outsiders are people just like that, whether they were born into it, seeked it out or had it forced upon them, they've been exposed to the reality of everything. And that changes them, physically, mentally and spiritually. They're touched by those things you talk about, those things that can't be explained by magic, science or religion, and as a result, they begin shifting and warping to better fit with the reality they can now perceive. And they find themselves more and more distant from their old humanity. What they do then, is up to them, but they can't just go back to being a normal human being again.

Again, cosmic horror, personal consequences.

>>17255558
>Radiation poisoning.
Humans should not deal with some forces of the universe. Human science is what lead me into this situation.
>Asteroid crash
Humankind has been corrupt and evil, so this asteroid must be a punishment from an angry God.

Depends of the individual but even the most unlikely elements can be humanized at some point, not all of them, of course.
I mean, becoming a Deep One could be misunderstood as an analogy of coming out of the closet as a gay in some circles, Shub-Niggurath cults as a feminazi rising woman liberation or even pro-life movements becoming so radical it doesn't matter if a poor raped girl gives birth a monster from beyond the stars.
I don't know if those possible interpretations benefit the concept of Cosmic Horror presented by Lovecraft in his essays Horror in literature.

I'm the OP and drawfag from the thread that started this. I just want to say that this is awesome, I lost the document link a long time ago, and didn't know what happened to this project.

I'm thoroughly proud to have been part of the (unholy) birthing of this, and wish you the best of luck.

>>17255925
Well you could have looked at the archived threads. >_>
Also don't be sorry, draw more! :P

>>17255558
And for most of the Outsiders, the experience is deeply personal, because there's no rational or understandable contact with the Elder Gods. You're being changed and you don't understand why. These guys say you have to serve, those guys say you should rebel, these other guys say you should grab all the cookies for yourself...

I see it as a game about choice in the face of the unknowable.

>>17255604
well to be fair those two things aren't so far fetched for Lovecraft to be consciously or unconsciously slipping into his writings. the man was terrified of other humans more than anything and this was reflected by his aliens representing, and being worshiped by, the "worst" aspects of humanity. in a way his monsters represented very human concepts (or this could be a case of hind sight) this game sort of quantifies the mythos entities which sort of diminishes their magnitude, making them finite in exchange for making humans a little more alien.

>>17256662
> a game of choice in the face of the unknowable

that actually works for the white wolf tagline if any of the writers are still lurking in this thread.

also I wanted to address this is the one WoD game were the players actually become monsters. sure you could argue vampire, werewolf and partially changeling, but this is the only one where you lose your humanoid form. how are outsiders so willing to accept that? Are the rebels the majority like in Changeling or is it equal parts rebels and cultists

there's a weird fucked-up description in the glossary:
>Eldritch Form: An Outsider thpossible for it to willingly deat reaches zero Quiescence assumes a heavily mutated form and is effectively no longer human. It is cide to give in to its alien nature to assume it for a limited time.

>>17256776
Always lurking.
In the dark corners of the Earth.
Watching and waiting for the posts to be right!

>>17256776
>this is the only one where you lose your humanoid form.
Well, Prometheans aren't exactly works of art as far as looks go. Or maybe they are and that is the whole problem. :P

>Are the rebels the majority like in Changeling or is it equal parts rebels and cultists

Outsiders are way way more rare than the other splats and are composed in equal parts of those who have seeked out the power, have been born with it and those who just stumbled upon it due to being in the wrong place in the wrong time.
If we wanted to be 100% true to canon, there would have been only 12 Shepherds of the Silver Key in the history of the entire humanity.

>>17256839
huh, tnx for pointing it out.
probably got mangled while we were editing other stuff
will correct

Why don't we just get a playtest group for this ready, just to see what parts of it break under strain?

Not because I desperately want to play this or anything.
Yeah.

>>17256839
>>17257075
>Eldritch Form: An Outsider that reaches zero Quiescence assumes a heavily mutated form and is effectively no longer human. It is possible for him to willingly decide to give in to his alien nature to assume it for a limited time.

This is the correct text by the way

>>17257128
Wait, what's he assuming though? He's already a mutated monster. If he gives in to his alien nature, what form is he assuming?

>>17257143
An outsider gains mutations through loss of quiescence and by buying them with xp.
The Eldritch Form allows you to assume the maximum number of mutations you could ever have for a number of rounds, but at the cost of an automatic drop of Quiescence.

You go from "passably human if the disguise is right" to "amorphous mass of chaotic limbs and orifices"

So uh

How does this not have a huge amount of overlap with Changeling?

Oh thank Christ. I've tried to start at least four outsider threads and they've all died within ten or twenty posts, usually after someone tells me the project is dead.

I love you guys. This is the best homebrew /tg/ has worked on.

>>17257555
It does actually, one of the proposed theories is that the Elder Gods are actually True Fae.

Read !The Strange High House in the Mist! and tell me Nodens ain't kidnapping people and replacing them with fetches.

>>17257077
Didn't AdEva do this way back when, and their's come out awesome?

We should do it.

>>17257555
>>17257654
Huh, seems we have a couple of volunteers.
MUAHAHAHAHAHA.

bump to keep the nightmare alive.

Also I will writefag for you if you can give me an idea what you want.

>>17257805
An example of someone changing, that first real "oh shit I have contacted a dark power" moment.

>>17257805
An example of a Dreamer Creed would be interesting.
Someone utterly detached from reality but must still interact with it.

>>17257856
Tell me more.

>>17257824
Alright give me a while and I will have it. I need to get inspired.

>>17257729
If yer organizing a playtest, count me in. I wanna get my horrifyingly unaware Thousand Young on.

I would be down for a playtest eventually, but I would caution against starting one now. Just wait until the holidays have ended and everyone has gotten into the groove of their new schedules.

>>17258022
true that
tho for the moment they would be playing only quick scenarios to test out the mechanics, doubt the system could handle e proper campaign at this point.

>>17251053
>Problem is that this must be balanced against all the other ways to gain Madness we already have that fit the concept just as well and the fact that in it's inception Madness wouldn't be that easy to gather.


Hmm, tell me how you like this:

Any such ritual must be tied to a specific 'mystic sign' and the amount of Madness gained depends on how frequently it occurs. A ritual tied to the phases of the moon would grant less Madness than one tied to the new moon specifically, which in turn would grant less Madness than one tied to the solstices, etc. Anything less than once a week grants too little to be feasible, while a lunar or solar eclipse would probably grant the maximum possible.

>>17257892
>Tell me more.
A Dreamer is someone who when he saw the wolds beyond our own didn't recoil in horror, but actually saw beauty in them. Dreamers emphasize the importance of existence as a whole, often acting as guardians and explorers of places that are not quite in tune with the rest of the world. Lost continents and other dimensions are the most likely places to find them.

>>17258871
This way the player can't just grab a couple of cultists and say: "Fill me up." whenever they want.

>>17258871
>>17258954
Reminds me a bit of the pledge system.

>>17258339

The thing with the Creeds is they come down to how you react to the awful change that's happening to you. Rebels fight against the thing changing them, Servants try to appease it, Deniers try to pretend nothing wrong is happening and Masters say "Fuck it, may as well get some power while I'm alive." Dreamers withdraw into themselves in a way, they look at the world around them and see an increasingly alien species surrounding them in a world that they feel more and more seperate from. Somewhere along the line, they see into another realm, whether it's the Dreamlands or Carcosa or somewhere or somewhen else. They devote themselves to this other place, travelling there when they can, maybe mostly dwelling there. But there's always something that draws them back to "reality". Maybe it's a need to keep some portal open, or ensure they're not disturbed while they dream. Maybe they build up a connection to other people who they feel a need to protect. Whatever the reason, they always find themselves dragged back, much as they'd like to dream forever.

>>17258871
>>17258954

I like it. Course, if the Outsider really needs some power and they're ruthless enough, they can sacrifice their followers if the need arises.

>>17259233
>>17257555

That's inevitable. There's a lot of thematic overlap with other splats. They've got similar backstories to Changelings: changed by some alien force for reasons they couldn't comprehend. Similar to Prometheans in that they're increasingly rejected by the world around them and find it hard to fit in. Similar to Vampires in that they're going down a path to something inhuman if they aren't careful.

Hell, a lot of the mechanics for cults and the like are inspired by Demon: The Fallen which shares a few similarities as well.

I only hope we've done enough to differentiate it. So while they have been changed by an alien force, that alien force is far less interested in them than the True Fae are. The gods they're dealing with are even more inexplicable than the True Fae, they'll barely interact with the players in any meaningful way, beyond mad dreams and maybe a bit more from Nyarlathotep.

Equally, they're almost reverse-Prometheans. As Prometheans move from being something constructed and made to being human, Outsiders lose what it means to be human and stop even looking like them. As Vampires grow more and more connected with the Beast, they might lose their humanity, but they're still understandable as predators. An Outsider probably has no idea what they're going to become, or what their eventual fate will be.

And I'll just quietly bump this before I go to bed.

One last bump before I too go to sleep.
But before I go, I have something for you.

http://outsiderthecalling.blogspot.com/

Sorry if it is a bit bare at the moment, but it is all my sleep deprived brain can manage at 6:30AM.

>>17267601
Coincidentally a combination of this two pictures would be similar to how I imagine the cover looking, only more stylized to match the look of other nWoD books.

A black and white swirling vortex with maybe an eye as the focus piece.

>>17267716

>>17256776

Though Outsiders do change physically, they also have the ability to suppress those changes, some better than others. For a while, at least, they might even be small enough to disguise. Beyond that, there's two explanations. Firstly, they might not have a choice. The transformation might feel inexorable and, short of suicide, they can't stop it, whether they want to or not. Whether this is actually the case or it's just a psychological hurdle they can't get over is another question entirely. Secondly, power is addictive. Being an Outsider definitely comes with its benefits, and some people will be willing to pay what they have to, even if it involves losing their humanity. Not everyone can be a Mage and wield cosmic power without losing their humanity.

Ireally like that tagline, incidentally.

>>17257555

I guess, if Changeling is Abuse Survivor: The RPG, Outsider might be Abused Person: The RPG. Where Changelings are people who've escaped their abuse at the hands of alien forces, Outsiders live it every day. They're in the process of changing, far beyond what happens to Changelings.

>>17267716
>Coincidentally a combination of this two pictures would be similar to how I imagine the cover looking,

And what's the stylized skull that goes on the spine of the book look like? Every WoD splat has one...

>>17268540
perhaps something like this

>>17268714
or the basic structure of this, you just want to get the bulbous head and the tentacles in there even though tentacles have no bones

I know this might be a bit of a wild suggestion so late in the game but why not incorporate some sort of mask like in changeling. white wolf games usually entail monsters hidden in plain sight, interacting with the material world, only showing their true form when they're about to strike. this isn't so far fetched for the Cthulhu mythos either. page 181 of CoC d20 (I know, I know) details a species of shoggoth called a shoggoth lord that can assume a slightly off human form as a disguise. this can be applied to the personal horror aspect of WoD when the player begins to realize his true self no longer matches what he sees around him but what others see in him. while this is possible with the current theme it does not allow for socialization with the mundane which is usually a big part of ST system games

>>17268938

It's never too late to suggest something man, like we've said, we're still very early on in terms of having a playable game.

We do have provisions in place for that though.

>By spending a willpower point the Outsider can suppress the mutations for a number of hours equal to to his Willpower + Quiescence. The suppression can be canceled at any time, though another willpower point must be spent to reactivate it.

I'd also quite like a rejection or ritual that allows you to conceal your mutations, though with some clue or hint as to your real form, whether it's a shadow like in your picture, or that the mutations can only be seen out of the corner of a person's eye or something along those lines. Something that allows you to go out into the world of men, but would still give the game away if you were a Hunter or other Supernatural who knew what to look for.

Eventually, it'll become really hard for uncautious Outsiders to go beyond their lairs, however. And I'm planning a few provisions for that as well, whether it's Yithian Mind Transfers, psychich projection, or just having a human cultist you're possessed or transmit messages to, who can do your bidding in the outside world.

>>17269033
additionally you could make it a faction specific power much like the Ordo Dracul has the ability to suppress the curse parts vampirism. the Deniers would be ideal for this

>>17269155

We've got a Creed-specific ability already for them, but the ability to suppress mutations for longer would probably work better. Maybe for a point of willpower per day?

Also, I'm beginning to think being damaged ought to risk unsupressing your mutations involuntarily. Probably shouldn't be automatic, but maybe make a reflexive Stamina + Composure roll to keep 'em hidden.

So...do we want to get a playtest group together?

>>17268938
>some sort of mask
They have mutation suppression.
The duration of which is dependent on their willpower and quiescence,

>>17269351
There is a merit for that doubles the amount of time one can stay hidden, tho now that I think about it might work better as the faction bonus for Deniers.

>>17269372
You can to use the IRC channel to organize yourselves. It's a bit hard to do that here.

I know this is something more for later stages of development, but is there already lines about how they feel about the other splats and vice-versa? Also Outsider specific Compacts and Conspiracies for Hunter?

>>17269572
There is a whole section of that at the end of the document.
We have three Compacts already and plans to do a Conspiracy tho that is on hold untill we finish the core unless a Hunter enthusiast volunteers to write it for us.

Has anyone read a comic called Witch Doctor?

It's a really fun horror-y comic about a doctor who specialises in supernatural medicine and diseases. It has recurring metaphor of talking about magical conditions in scientific language. Demonic possession as a parasite, faerie kiddie-snatching as a form of brood parasitism, that sort of thing.

Anyway, one thing they have is a theory about the Archaeons, the great old ones that came to Earth and slumber under the crust of the Earth now. All classic stuff, so far so good.

But where do we get supernatural creatures from? Think about how a creature the size of a pigeon is essentially a mobile ecosystem of bacteria, lice, ticks, fleas, tapeworms and the like.

Imagine what a creature the size and nature of a Great Old One would have for those. The Old Ones brought these parasites to Earth with them and when the Old Ones went to sleep, their parasites had to turn to prey on Earth's natural residents. They became known as the Firstborne, and that's where we get Faeries, vampires etc from.

Seriously, check out Witch Doctor. It's awesome.

>>17268540
>>17268714
>>17268741
What do you say to this?
(tho it should be redone by an actual artist)

>>17269613
Sounds cool, will check it out.

>>17269682
While we are on this, here is a Sect insignia for Starspawned Savants that a kind drawfag did for us.

Something simple that is identifiable with the Sect and would look at home drawn on a cave wall in blood.

>>17269682

I like that symbol. Dunno if the facial tentacles should be a little longer or not.

>>17269572

At the moment we've got three Compacts. Miskatonic University, who pretty much run Arkham nowadays, and use the university as a recruiting ground for an academic conspiracy that's spread amongst the alumni across the United States. Arkham Mental Health Services (though I reckon we should change the name), who view the supernatural as psychosomatic symptoms of deeper mental problems, and who aim to solve those problems, either using modern techniques or more obscure, outdaded practices. And then Delta Green, who we've given some merits to work with.

We've not really decided on what sort of Conspiracy we'd like to get involved.

>>17270068

That's pretty cool. It'd be dead easy just to use the tentacly octopus head as the symbol of Cthulhu, but that's got the same sort of imagery, but it's simpler and more occult-like.

For the other Sects, there's a few options as I see it. Hastur has the obvious one of the Yellow Sign. Shub-Niggurath is often associated with a bull's head or a goat's head, but I'd love to see something a little more clever. Yog-Sothoth is associated with keys, locks and gates, and in the LCG, its symbol is a lock with a key within it.

Nyarlathotep is probably the hardest to work with. With so many masks, and so many cults, there's a huge variety of options

>>17270068
>>17270193
This is the drawfag in question (and also unintentional starter of the project), listing the different factions and what themes are appropriate for each one would probably make me be able to actually help out, since I've done nothing related to the project for a looong time.

I remember making that there design when another drawfag made a very very complex one that had usable ideas but was far from edited properly. -> more info and common aesthetics from the groups in question leads to better logos.

hopefully I'll manage to keep in touch this time.

>>17247619
So has anyone had any idea about how Geniuses might fit into this whole business?

>>17270275

Oh, good to see you're still keen to get involved. I'll give it a try to list the Sects.

The one you've already done, Cthulhu, the Starspawned Savants. Associated with water and oceans, since Cthulhu's trapped beneath the Pacific. Also associated with the stars, because of the prophecies about his rise when they are once again right. He is usually portrayed as a gigantic, winged humanoid with a head like a squid or octopus. Which you've really captured with that symbol.

Yog-Sothoth, the Shepherds of the Silver Key. Yog-Sothoth is an entity, or more than that, which is somehow coterminous with all of space and time. It's associated with sorcerers and priests, looking forward and backward in time. Often called the Gate and the Key. Often portrayed as a mass of bubbles or spheres.

Shub-Niggurath, She with the Thousand Young. A force of creation and corruption, often worshipped as a fertility or nature deity. Described as the Black Goat. Her Young are gigantic, tree-like things, but she's got numerous different forms.

>>17270275
>another drawfag made a very very complex one that had usable ideas but was far from edited properly

Here, I found my old artistic abortion.
:P

>>17270193
>>17270469
Nyarlathotep is an Outer God linked intimately with mad science, so his symbol could be a brain with electrons swirling around it. The Light of Inspiration could be one of his creations, or one of his masks.

>>17270469
I actually thought about it, but I'm not all that familiar with them.

>>17270543
True, as I remember Nyarlathotep was originally inspired by Tesla and Lovecraft's fear of technology.

>>17270478
>>17270275

Hastur, and the Scions of the Yellow Sign. Hastur's a force of entropy and madness. He's associated with degradation and corruption. Often associated with a variety of characters, the King in Yellow, a skeletal figure in flowing yellow robes, the Stranger, who wears no mask, and the Prophet of Truth. The relationship between these figures is hazy at best. Hastur is sometimes portrayed as a memetic virus, transmitted through a play and his symbol, the Yellow Sign.

And finally Nyarlathotep. Messenger and Soul of the Outer Gods, one of the few Mythos entities that seems to take an active interest in mankind. Nyarlathotep is a schemer and planner, who seems to take joy in suffering and madness and destruction. He has no set form, but a Thousand masks, innumerable Avatars that work on their own schemes. These cults share very little, so it's hard to identify a common theme or symbol. One almost common-theme is that of a single, red tentacle, almost like a tongue.

That is not dead which can inactive lie, and with strange aeons, even cancer may die?

Good to see that, unlike other good /tg/ projects, the Outsider lives.

>>17270543
>>17270592

The short story he's featured in portrays him as a Tesla-like figure, yeah. He puts on a show of scientific marvels that drives its audience to madness and despair. But equally, Nyarlathotep is mentioned as being worshipped by the Mi-Go in the Whisperer in Darkness, alongside Shub-Niggurath, and the winged horror with the three-lobed burning eye in the Haunter of the Dark.

So we've got plenty to work with, just looking at Lovecraft, not even considering all the other masks that have been added over the years.

>>17270275
Also if it helps here are some Cthonic Runes.

probably too similar, just quick thoughts on the different signs. Sort of like the shub-niggurath vagina goat horn combo tbh, but it could just be the fever talking.

>captcha: possibly totalkpi

>>17270979
The Shub-Nigurath is a great concept, tho the picture itself doesn't flow as well as the rest.

The Yog-Sothoth one made me do a double take, since the circle makes it look like a sticky figure vampire. :P Tho I prefer the key variant rather than the door.

Nothing to comment on Hastur

The Bloody Tongue reference is good, but especially since it's right next to the yellow sign they look a bit too similar.

>>17270979

Not gonna lie, those are cool as fuck. My only concern would be differentiating the Nyarlathotep and Cthulhu symbols. They both look pretty similar, what with the flowing lines and the vage similitudes, but I'm really nitpicking at this point.

And since the tg irc server appears to be down, I'm going to have a scrounge around my image folders for vaguely appropriate images.

>>17271256
yeah, the Shub-Nigurath symbol has the same problem, just like with the Cthulhu variant it depicts the left side of a face.
On the other hand now that I look more at it the smaller version on the left looks better. the softer lines makes it look more like a goat's head.

>>17271393

I prefer the middle S-N symbol, to be honest. The left-most one almost looks like an upside-down Yellow Sign.

>>17271462
I was talking about the one similar to the circled one. Bottom left if we want to be specific.

>>17271510

Ah, gotcha. That one does look a bit better.

Why do curved lines always look better?

The Twenty Palaces series has an interesting concepts for creatures from outside reality.

hey graw,django here, i cant log into the irc for some reason, but i just drew this up for you.

>>17272050
Not Graw, but none of us can log, the server is down.

On the other hand, this looks cool.

>>17272124
oh,thought it was just me,anyway if the guys making this is still around, want me to do more
y/n?

>>17272194
Sure man, just take your time.

>>17272194
cool, when IRC comes back up,what room you guys in,incase this thread 404's, im probably gonna just mess around til i do something i like,might take me a bit though

>>17272287
#alientheoutsider

Just like it's written in the OP :P

>>17272298

another idea, include a pronunciation key I've been reading HPL and friends since high school and I still have to skim ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn.

>>17272050

Awesome stuff man. That's pretty much perfect for a highy Mythos, low Quiescence Outsider with a load of mutations. Keep up the good work.

>>17272358
> include a pronunciation key
Sure thing man, but which one?
There are a number of conflicting ones around.

>>17272358

As far as I know, it's "Finn-gluey maggle wa-nafh C-thulhu Ryhl-yeh wagga'naggle fh-tan". But then, the names are unpronounacable by human tongues, we can only approximate them.

I feel it'd be even more like we were classifying some new species rather than describing eldritch horrors from beyond time and space if we had a pronunciation guide beside each of them

>>17272376
holy shit,a nice person on /tg/
fucking first for me man,thanks.

>>17272376
made another one but i sincerely doubt that its safe for work
since i named it human penis vomit

>>17272770

>your face when

>>17273156

Wilbur was a relatively low-powered Outsider compared to his brother.

Meanwhile IRC works again.

Time to sleep I guess

>>17272358
>>17272406
Speaking of the pronunciation of this phrase,
listen to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDRcdzXoMwU&feature=related

Need any help guys?

>>17279691
GOD YES!
Errrm,...I mean err...If you really want to help I guess we could use you.

Had any ideas?

>>17279714

Not ideas really, I don't exactly have experience with game mechanics and stuff.

When I found the Changeling books I read them obessively though and have always wanted to try writing some sort of fluff stuff, like how they had stories and premade characters from the courts.

Any need for that in Outsider?

>>17279742
Sure, all important NPCs need a bit of background, to see what you are working with you should look at the fluff pieces for the Creeds and Rejections.

>>17270979
There is a semi-official symbol of Shub-Niggurath.
It looks kinda like a biohazard symbol.

>>17281802

The only place I've seen that one is the CoC rulebook. I don't really like it, personally. It's quite drab and not very occult-looking.

One last bump before I go to sleep and let this die. It's been a good run, but it looks like it's time to go back into hiding.

>>17248799

Isn't it obvious? The Great Old Ones are The Bound that Mages talk about.

>Arkham Mental Health Services

This is the Talbot Group's MO. They're in Spirit Slayers.

Also, Genius is utter shit and it's fans/sycophants are some of the worst people. Don't involve yourself with them.

>>17285452
>Talbot Group
They are similar only on the surface. From their description the TB seem like pretty nice guys.

The AMHS on the other hand is all about lobotomy, electroshock therapy, vivisection and untested drug use on patients.

>The Bound
The Bound are Sin-Eaters
I think you mean The Acamoth.
The difference is that Acamoth are creatures purely of the outside, tho an Outsider could become such a being when he reaches Displacement 10.
On the other hand a perfectly acceptable background for a PC would be a former Mage turned Outsider due to the influence of an Acamoth.

>Genius is utter shit and it's fans/sycophants are some of the worst people.
Won't comment least I break a window in this glass house that are fan splats.

Bump

rolled 15 = 15

So did that playtest people were talking about ever get up off the ground?

>>17289180

Doesn't look like it. We didn't hear anything in the IRC, and no-one left any emails, so looks like it didn't come to anything.

>>17289180
They never left any way to contact them.
Bit hard to organize things like that.

I had resolved to let this die, but hey, developments.

A thoroughly nice chap has offered to do a front cover for us and has done a couple of preliminary ideas. We've already sent back some feedback of our own, but it'd be nice to find out what you guys think.

>>17291558

We're not entirely sure about the fonts he decided to use, but have got no clues about fonts ourselves. Any ideas?

>>17291573
This one is better. Very nice.

>>17291734
While I agree that the second one is currently better, if the first one's symbol would be more visible it would be great. It looks like something painted on an old ruin.

>>17291558
>>17291573
>dark alien horror
>Three words
I would go with just "alien horror".

>>17292181

Initially, we were going to go with, as suggested earlier, "A storytelling game of choice in the face of the unknowable". Our cover dude, did "Dark alien horror", because it actually fits. A mistake for us really.

"Alien Horror" would also work I suppose. Though it's a bit generic. It's certainly not settled or anything yet.

>>17292181
or "unknown horror"

Personally I like the "A game of choice in the face of the unknowable" from earlier in the thread, but as the covers illustrate it's a bit too long.

>worshipped Is'Tuti
No Captcha Is'Tuti Outsiders ain't available to play.
Too unbalanced.

>>17292638
My main beef is that all other WoD splats have two word, snappy slogans on the front. While it might just be my opinion, I find that three words just doesn't sound right.

>>17292683
true dat

>>17292683

"A Storytelling Game of Personal Horror." — Vampire The Masquerade, all editions
"A Storytelling Game of Savage Horror." — Werewolf The Apocalypse, second and third editions
"A Storytelling Game of Modern Magick." — Mage The Ascension first edition
"... of Reality on the Brink." — Mage second edition
"... of Death and Damnation." — Wraith: The Oblivion first edition
"... of Passion and Horror." — Wraith second edition
"... of Modern Fantasy." — Changeling: The Dreaming, first and second editions
"... of Righteous Fury." — Hunter: The Reckoning
"A Storytelling Game of Infernal Glory." — Demon: The Fallen
"A Modern Gothic Storytelling Game." — Vampire: The Requiem
"A Storytelling Game of Savage Fury." — Werewolf: The Forsaken
"... of Modern Sorcery." — Mage: The Awakening
"... of Stolen Lives." — Promethean: The Created
"... of Beautiful Madness." — Changeling The Lost
"... of Light and Shadows." — Hunter The Vigil
"... of Second Chances." — Geist: The Sin-Eaters

I'm inclined to agree with you. "Alien Horror" does work, especially in the absence of some snappy genius two word phrase that I'm currently wracking my brain trying to figure out.

>>17292963

"A Storytelling Game of Cosmic Horror"

done.

>>17293007
That's almost too on the nose.

What makes THIS Lovecraft-inspired game different from all the other ones out there? Why should our game exist?

>>17293034

Thinking this through. The difference as I see it is that in this game, the player characters are already corrupted by the Mythos. They have tremendous power, but run the risk of losing their humanity as they become more and more alien.

Instead of "You're investigating and are faced with the horrible reality of the world wat do?", it's "You are the horrible reality of the world wat do?".

>>17293095
"...of Crawling Chaos".
"...of Creeping Damnation".
"...of Dark Apotheosis".
"...of Unforeseen Consequences".

>>17293095
>horrible reality
Hmm, that one is close, but not quite.
What about:

"A Storytelling Game of Horrible Truths "

>>17293187

Crawling Chaos is too linked to Nyarlathotep already.
Creeping Damnation is better, but "damnation" might have too many religious connotations. Not that that's a bad thing, but it fits better for vampires I'd say.
Dark Apotheosis is good, but it's got the same problem my own thought: "Horrible Anagnorisis" has, that you can't sell people with a word they need to check a dictionary to understand.
Unforseen Consequences kinda, almost works. But hey, when you're dealing with horrific alien forces, is it really unforseen when bad stuff goes down? Also, it makes me think of Half-Life, and how some Half-life themed RPG would be awesome.

>>17293307
How about "Nightmarish Consequences"?

"Harsh Realities" could also work.

"Monstrous Fates", "Dark Epiphanies"...

No, wait. I've got it.

"A Storytelling Game of Strange Aeons".

>>17248258
"I was worshiping Ithaqua before he was cool."

How about,

"A Storytelling Game of Terrible Knowledge"

"A game about Horror without and the Alien within."

>>17293007
I'm not too fond of this. it's like how mage: the Awakening is a game of Modern Sorcery, but it never quite captures the feeling of paranoia, mystery and empowerment that I find Mage tries to deliver.

>>17293662
This seems to work much better. Sounds very apropos, and is still vaguely enticing enough to win over a potential reader

Anybody want to hop on IRC or something and organize a playtest of this? I´m itching to try out these mechanics and ideas.

>>17249870
As a thought on this: the Supernal Realms are all still linked to the so-called Fallen Realm, despite what the mages might think. Stygia is tied to the Underworld, Arcadia is where the True Fae reside, the Primal Wild is where the Werewolf stuff happens, Pandemonium has something to do with what vampires really are, and Aether is where the Divine Fire is.

All of the Realms are also, however, linked to the Outside. The Outside is the formless Chaos from which everything spawned, and to which everything returns. It is at the bottom of the Underworld, the undefined edges of Arcadia, the heart of Aether, and so on. The major difference between the Outside and the World is DEFINITION. The closer you are to the Outside, the less certainty there is aside from whatever certainty you yourself create.

Think some of the weirdest shit from Exalted (the shinma, the Deep Wyld, how raksha and hannya are created, what Primordials really are, what the Infernals can become, etc.) and you'll about have it.

>>17293892

>I'm not too fond of this. it's like how mage: the Awakening is a game of Modern Sorcery, but it never quite captures the feeling of paranoia, mystery and empowerment that I find Mage tries to deliver.

That's precisely the problem with it. It sums up the game, but it doesn't... sum up the game.

>>17293622

"Monstrous Fates" is probably my favourite of those, in that it's very personal. I like idea of fate and that Outsiders are doomed to become alien and monstrous. "Strange Aeons" doesn't really work because it isn't personal. That works for a wider game about the Mythos, but our focus isn't the cosmic scheme of things, but the impact it has on one person.

>>17293662

I'm actually leaning more and more towards this. Terrible's always a good word, and knowledge brings together the theme of learning too much with the truth/reality thing.

>>17293724

This one's too long, unfortunately, we're trying to keep them to two words, three at the most.

>>17293917
Yeah, I know the picture is inaccurate, but it's just an example, hard to do an accurate picture without a 4D representation.

>>17293307
"Inescapable Consequences"?

>>17293917

The only problem, as I see it, with this interpretation, is that the game's built around the entities of the Cthulhu Mythos. With your idea, what are they? Why does Shub-Niggurath or Yog-Sothoth exist? Are they ideas strong enough to survive in the Outside? Are they simply manifestations created by Outsiders desperately trying to identify and define what caused them? That'd be a pretty neat end-game really, a high Mythos Outsider coming to the understanding that there is no Hastur, no source for the voices he hears, the things he sees. There's just him and the Outside. Everything else flows from that.

Really, I think this is the kind of thing that should be left entirely non-concrete. Is the Outside the space where there's no space, no reality to latch on to and nothing to define? Is the Outside the "real" world, and everything we percieve simply an aberational pebble floating within it? Is all of this just a great cosmic joke created so that Nyarlathotep can entertain himself for a while?

The implications of those questions won't really come into play very often at all, so I don't think we need to cause trouble by identifying a "canon" answer.

>>17293187
>"...of Dark Apotheosis".
I have a fractal for that!

>>17293917
So the Supernal Ladder which 'fell' through through the Fallen World and formed the Underworld didn't so much 'fall' as it 'disorganized' the space in reality the Abyss now occupies?

>That'd be a pretty neat end-game really, a high Mythos Outsider coming to the understanding that there is no Hastur, no source for the voices he hears, the things he sees. There's just him and the Outside.

Sounds like the motivation of an amazing antagonist.

>>17294086
It's all of those and none of those all at once. This may seem impossible, but there's a reason why the closer you get to the Outsiders the less comprehensible they become.

I'm thinking of this as almost an inverse Promethean sort of thing, really. Prometheans are a little chunk of Outside used to reanimate a pile of spare organs that wants to become a Real Boy. The Called are Real, but will give that up in exchange for the utter freedom that is the Outside. Human Centimani, kind of.

Building on this, Mythos critters cause the horrible effects they do at least partly as an inverted Wasteland/Disquiet effect. Instead of Reality rejecting them, they reject Reality and substitute their own around them. The stronger they are, the greater the degree to which they can do this; "Uzumaki" would be what happens when a powerful Outsider or a Called who's on the verge of becoming one sets up shop somewhere and starts rebuilding things to their liking.

Big thematic difference between the Called and every splat except Sin-Eaters: the element of Choice. Called aren't born and aren't made; you have to willingly choose to answer the Call if you become a PC instead of a mindless Willpower 0 thrall.

>>17294086
I like it.
That is certainly an option.

Every player gets a journal full of scribbles and ramblings, each ramble they decipher gives them 10 points.?

>>17294180
The element of Choice is what I think defines this from the usual Lovecraftian fair as well. The "theme and mood" section would certainly go into it.

>>17294140
Yep.

If you want to differentiate the Abyss and Outside, the Outside is "incoherence" where the Abyss is "emptiness". They may look the same from a distance, but up close they're very very different things. The Abyss is also the only place that doesn't touch on the Outside anywhere.

To use an analogy: the Outside is the atmosphere, the Real is a glass bubble that used to be a solid bit of glass, the Abyss is the true vacuum inside the bubble that was created when some douchebags decided to do a bit of glassblowing.

>>17294219
True, as things are you have the option for a conspiracy game, adventure in lost civilizations, search for salvation, etc.

>>17294219
>>17294180

I like the idea of everyone who is an Outsider chose that path. But it'd be different from what I've been working on the assumption of up till now. The classic, Lovecraft example I've always referred to as archetypal Outsiders would be the Whately brothers, who were very much born that way.

The way I see it, you might not have chosen this path, but it's your choice how you react to what happens next. You might be the prophesised child of a centuries-old cult, born with unusual birth-marks and deformities, you might be a man who just happened to pick up the King in Yellow for a quick read and ended up faceless and skeletal or you might be a sorcerer who called up Nyarlathotep and struck a deal. The choice to become an Outsider isn't the important one, it's what you do afterwards that's important.

>>17294240
Not sure I agree with this one point. just further complicates an already complicated thing.

>>17294521

The more crazy explanations of reality we have, the better, from my point of view. None of them will have any impact on how the game actually plays out, but they'll serve to flesh things out.

>>17294590
They're also useful in determining how this splat fits together with the rest, and what their attitudes towards each other are likely to be.

Gonna be reqading through the whole thread here in a bit, but just had a question:
Is there any way I can become a god in this game? Like in Exalted, where the Infernals have the potential to become new Yozis. Is this a thing?

>>17295290
You can be worshiped as one, but an actual god is a bit out of a player's league.

A Mythos 10 Outsider would be an Avatar to a god.
A Mythos 10 Outsider would count as one of the Masks.
Dagon could considered be a Mythos 10 avatar for Cthulhu.

Seems oddly appropriate for this topic.

Ok one last bump before letting this thread die.
Last chance to ask questions or make comments here.
Later tonight or tomorrow I'll make a post one the blog about what was discussed here so anyone else interested should look there.
To everyone else goodbye and see you in a month or two after we made some more progress.

Blog link: http://outsiderthecalling.blogspot.com/