I know that a lot of people wanted me to try and make it work anyway. "Eldar craftworlds aren't invincible, the players shouldn't be in a no win scenario, that's just railroading, just say no to TPKs." I thought about it. Not particularly long, but I thought about it, and in the end I just couldn't bring myself to pull out some deus ex machina to let them win, or shortchange the eldar defenses. My decision ended up being pretty simple. They wanted a craftworld, let them have a craftworld. They wanted a RAW campaign, let them have a RAW campaign.

I'll try to recount what went down as best I can remember. If it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, that might be because a lot of it never made any sense in the first place. When the players arrived at the craftworld, the group's rogue trader attempted to hail the craftworld and use a charm test to make the eldar let him approach to within teleport range, presumably at which point they would enact the rest of their plan. He pumped some fate into the roll, stacked a couple other modifiers, and smiled as he announced that he had gotten eight degrees of success on the charm test. I told him that charm only works on people who are listening.

holy shit op,i read your last thread,reading now,hope its as good as i expect IF NOT YOU WILL DO IT AGAIN TO MY SPECIFICATONS MOTHERFUCKER

I asked him what made him think the eldar had any interest in talking, to which he didn't respond. Instead we ended up arguing a bit over some of the stuff that he was trying to say. He started trying to rephrase his words into a little speech, that he said he was broadcasting to everyone in the area, that told everyone listening to retransmit it to the people in charge. He claimed that eight degrees of success should be enough to force the eldar to retransmit his charm message to the craftworld's leaders, which would then force them to let him approach. I reminded him that charm only worked on a limited number of targets, and that broadcasting the message to everyone meant that he had no control of who got it and thus who were those people who were affected by it.

We kept arguing until eventually he just settled on saying that with eight degrees of success on charm he should just get what he wanted and that it wasn't his job to fill in the details of exactly what happened or how it happened. That was my job, apparently. I told him that in the end, I determined one thing that trumped all of that, whether the eldar in charge were listening to what he was saying, and all the degrees of success in the world won't charm someone who isn't listening.

And that on top of all of that, his character wouldn't even know what was going on amongst the eldar anyway, so I was under no obligation to be explaining any of this to him in the first place. All he knew was that they were giving him static. He started going down the same road with deceive and intimidate to try to force the eldar to let him approach the craftworld, and then back to charm to try to convince whatever eldar were listening to turn on and attack their kin, apparently hoping that would create some sort of disruption that he could exploit, and then to various combinations of those. When that got him nothing but more static, he eventually just sat down with a dismissive "whatever."

With that aside they finally got to some scanning and detection rolling and I described to them the craftworld fleet, something that I had not had a chance to do before getting into the argument about charm/command. After the initial objections when I mentioned the sheer number of ships (interesting that they were so vocal now considering that they hadn't batted an eye back when they thought they could just diplomance their way past them) I told them that there were corsair ships there too, who had started moving to intercept them as soon as they had arrived, and that it looked like the craftworlders were staying put and letting the corsairs have their little grudge match. Which I would have told them about sooner if it weren't for that argument over charm.

The corsair fleet consisted of a squadron of 4 Shadows cruisers, 2 squadrons of 4 Solaris light cruisers each, and 2 squadrons of 6 Nightshades each.

I gave them the time to take some sort of action before the corsairs moved in to attack. I suggested that if they wanted to retreat, this would be the time to do it. They discussed amongst themselves for a while, and eventually came to the conclusion that they could destroy the corsair fleet and continue on to the craftworld. They had looked at the stat blocks for all the eldar ships, and were confident that the craftworld eldar simply would not be able to catch them before they reached the craftworld.

>>16740341
Party-inflicted TPK; OH BOY, MY FAVORITE

>>16740341
im the only other guy in this thread that posted earlier,but go on good sir/

Before people laugh too much at the idea of an Imperial cruiser outrunning eldar ships, let me explain.

Between the void master and the explorator, they had been able to go 15+ VUs a round in their Lunar, much faster than the craftworld cruisers, and the craftworld escorts only mounted a single gun each, so they dismissed them as insignificant. And out of combat time they had never lost a stern chase before, either chasing or being chased, by virtue of their ability generate massive numbers of degrees of success.

They figured that only the corsair ships (namely the Solaris light cruisers) could both keep up with and (potentially) hurt them, so once they destroyed them they could just fly on past the rest of the eldar ships, ram the craftworld, at which point the eldar ships wouldn't dare shoot at them for fear of damaging the craftworld, and they could launch their invasion as planned.

So they moved up to engage the corsairs. As usual, one of them spent a fate point to roll a 10 on initiative for their ship, giving them 11 total. One of the squadrons of Nightshades rolled a 10 on initiative, giving it 12 total and letting it go first. The players had all seen the stat blocks on the Nightshade along with every other eldar ship, and were totally unimpressed by it. Until the Nightshade squadron blasted their Lunar to scrap metal with a volley of vortex torpedos.

Your playes are retarded. I hope their end was swift and humiliating.

It takes an ENTIRE Space Marine chapter to take out a craftworld. Every single marine committed, every ship they have, using every ounce of ability, knowledge and luck at their disposal. A bunch of douchebags in a single ship wouldn't stand a chance.

>>16740341
It begins.

>>16740364
rogue trader into the shit storm

>>16740358
Make that a second, OP is not alone here. Give us the gory, sensual details.

After the shouting, objections, arguments, and general complaining died down, they all burned fate to survive, and said that their ship retreated from the fight instead of being outright destroyed. I mentioned that ultimately the GM decided what condition their ship survived in, and I ruled that the component damage/destruction/etc. inflicted before their ship's final explosion remained. Which incidentally included a destroyed result on, amongst other things, the ship's warp engine. So that left them limping along in real space. In the middle of nowhere. With less than 6 months worth of supplies in their holds. Offhand I rolled a d10 to see how many years they were on sublight from the nearest star system. It came up an 8.

This caused another stir from the players, they said that they had burned fate and thus I was required to have them survive the situation. I told them that they did, but the rest of the crew didn't have fate to burn, did they? So the PCs would survive.

They would survive the next 8 years of famine, riots, mutiny, outright warfare, starvation, and cannibalism. They would survive all the crew, from the lowliest bilge rat to the highest officer, turning on each other for what meager supplies remained. They would survive to see their cruiser degenerate into a ghost ship manned only by the four PCs, gnawing on the bones of their fellow men, kept alive only by the twisted whims of fate.

Op, I commend you on the patience you've displayed with your players thus far, and I eagerly await the conclusion of your story.

>>16740370
Yes-
>>16740364
And then it ends...

Playing out the slow deterioration of their ship was new for me, and far more fun than I'd care to admit. It was new for them too, but from the looks of it, a lot less fun. Eventually I started skipping ahead more and more, as more of their crew died off, there was much less interaction going on, after all. And eventually, after 8 years, they finally limped into the star system.

I rolled up on the random tables for generating a star system. All in all, it was pretty lifeless. A dying star, a barren world, a dust cloud, a gas giant, and beyond that a whole lot of nothing.

Nothing, except for an Imperial Navy Dauntless that promptly announced that they were all under arrest for piracy.

>>16740383
> They would survive the next 8 years of famine, riots, mutiny, outright warfare, starvation, and cannibalism. They would survive all the crew, from the lowliest bilge rat to the highest officer, turning on each other for what meager supplies remained. They would survive to see their cruiser degenerate into a ghost ship manned only by the four PCs, gnawing on the bones of their fellow men, kept alive only by the twisted whims of fate.

A fitting punishment for their hubris, and a reminder of exactly the kind of universe they are playing in.

>>16740392
Mhm-
>>16740383
And then it takes a turn for the worse! I love you, OP!

> The corsair fleet consisted of a squadron of 4 Shadows cruisers, 2 squadrons of 4 Solaris light cruisers each, and 2 squadrons of 6 Nightshades each.

Um, why exactly did they think that was survivable?

Not that familiar with rogue trader, but in BFG that's FAR more than a lone lunar can handle.

>>16740396
...HAHAHAHAHAHA

>>16740396
> an Imperial Navy Dauntless that promptly announced that they were all under arrest for piracy.

That was all they were willing to take. At that point one of the void master's player decided that he was done for the night and was going to head home. The others quickly took the opportunity to say the same. There was some idle chatter as people packed up to go, but all very subdued, none of the usual bragging about what their character could do or how many degrees of success they could get on whatever test. Very little talk of the game at all.

The last to leave was the navigator's player. On the way out the door, he commented that he was thinking of starting and GMing his own Rogue Trader campaign. The look on his face made it clear that I wasn't going to be a part of it. I wished him luck with that and waved as he drove off.

So now we get to the present. I've gone around and talked to some of the people I played with before this recent group, and two of them have responded positively to the idea of a new Rogue Trader campaign. One was a guy who had been forced out by the other four for wanting to play a kroot, the other lived in the middle of buttfuck nowhere until just recently.

So I guess my new question for today is, how well does Rogue Trader work with only a GM and 2 players?

>>16740430
Well enough, but three would be better.

Maybe you should talk to one of the less contemptuous players from the original group?

>>16740430
my question good sir is do you live in Texas by chance?

>>16740430
>kroot
Kroot only campaign. Do it. DO IT.
Then it would work brilliantly.

BANG BANG BANG HAHAHAHAHA

BANG BANG BANG HAHAHAHAHA

BANG BANG- I could watch this all fuckin day

>>16740409
In previous battles they had been able to destroy a Solaris in a single salvo with significant overkill. They had been able to win a similarly one-sided fight against a Shadow and three Hellebores. Apparently they thought they could just fly around one shotting the eldar ships until none remained.

Rogue Trader is a bit different than Battlefleet Gothic. In Rogue Trader, the PCs enjoy a very sizable advantage over NPC ships, regardless of other factors like size or faction.

>>16740456
Sadly, no.

>they refused and said that if I wouldn't GM a RAW campaign, one of them would
This is an unacceptable display, which tells me these people are after some weird little personal power trip and nothing else. To a degree that's fine, and fun. This is lunacy.

>They just confidently said that they had a plan, but refused to elaborate further because they thought that I would ruin it by metagaming.
And you've already obviously heard the response to this.

>They had looked at the stat blocks for all the eldar ships
ಠ_ಠ
"Fuck rolling Forbidden Lore: I'm A Huge Heretic, I have metagaming!"

>We kept arguing until eventually he just settled on saying that with eight degrees of success on charm he should just get what he wanted and that it wasn't his job to fill in the details of exactly what happened or how it happened.
Again, you obviously understand how ridiculous this is.

OP, from what I've seen in this and your last post, these are not people that you, as a decent gamer, should be wasting your time with. Good on you for running the trainwreck of a group through what sounds like a fairly done and well-crafted suicide session, and you're better off without them. I've helped bring a fair number of mediocre gamers into the fold, but this type of immaturity is off the deep end of terrible.

Great story, OP, congrats on getting rid of your crybaby group. Godspeed.

Well, OP, it's unfortunate that your group left. However, I would like to point out that the point of RPGs is to have fun. It's one thing to let your players go to their deaths, particularly if you warn them.

However, not only did you kill the entire party, you also crippled their ship, killed the entire crew, and had them arrested. Any one of those would've been enough insult to injury, and you saw for yourself that nobody had fun at the end of it.

You could have let them burn fate to retreat away from the Eldar, then used chase mechanics to make it an action-filled event. However, you simply fiat'd them to death by declaring everything ruined forever.

Not only that, but you dragged it out, painfully describing their crumbling ship and crew before leaving them in contact with a hostile ship with no support.

Sometimes it's okay to be mean to your players, but you should keep it fun for everyone. Nobody likes to lose, especially not that hard, and you don't sound like you had fun doing it either.

Congratulations, OP, you ruined a group.

However, you have my sympathies as my last group recently fell apart, and I encourage you to press on.

>>16740543
Hey now, the PCs weren't dead at the end, they hadn't even been taken into custody yet. They were still aboard their Lunar, the Dauntless had merely announced that they were all under arrest and didn't have a chance to do anything more. And they did survive what by all rights should have been a suicide run, despite their own instance on pressing on. I did give them opportunities to back out, after all.

> and you don't sound like you had fun doing it either.
On the contrary, I had a great deal of fun with it.

>>16740568
It is worse to be helpless and alive than it is to be dead in RPGs. They have no way of resisting an imperial ship.

You gave them a way to back out, and they declined. They then got TPK'd, and decided to take your option to back out, at which point you punched them each in the dick and went on a power trip.

If you had just made a mistake, I would think of it as a learning experience. However, you seem to have no regrets, so you're a total faggot.

>>16740572
Actually they pretty much begged to survive from the sounds of it.
Plus which, they were in a far less deadly situation against the Dauntless than they were against the craftworld.

Given the sheer amount of hubris the group displayed, combined with their poor decisions, I think this is a fitting end for those characters.
If they want to play a RAW version of the game while power tripping and taking ridiculous risks, they are eventually going to fail miserably.

Was OP vindictive? Maybe, maybe not. The group essentially did a suicide mission, and he did not try to save them from their own actions.

>>16740572
Hey, it's a big ship. I'm sure that a creative PC could work the situation to their advantage.

And the players were very insistent that they come out alive. They rolled the die and picked their fate. Now they pay the consequences

I eagerly await a thread by one of the players. MY GM RAILROADED ME INTO LOSING HE IS SHITTY GM WAT DO /tg/

>>16740572
Would you rather they had drifted into that lifeless system and there NOT be a ship waiting to pick them up? Cause then they would really be screwed.

>>16740607
No, as I said, I would consider it fitting for them to have escaped, possibly finding another component crippled aside from the warp drive, or having the warp drive fail mid-transit and deposit them somewhere safe, if inconvenient. It could have spawned a whole campaign's worth of adventure, having them prepare for a revenge mission. Now, it's just drudge-work.

This is like an instance in a video game where you start out with tons of badass powers, fight the final boss, and lose them all. Now you're just some stupid fucker who has nothing, and the entire game is just getting it back. That shit is stupid.

I would ultimately prefer that the consequence of burning a fate point is the loss of that fate point. You get three fate points if you're lucky, so losing one is a big fucking deal, and this GM doesn't seem the type to give them out easily.

Above any situation preference, I think the most important thing is that the group has fun. The WHOLE group. Not just the GM, and not just the players.

You know, I can't really find myself sympathizing with the PCs in this situation at all, if only because
> One was a guy who had been forced out by the other four for wanting to play a kroot
What kind of asshole does that?

>>16740629
I know, right? What kind of dickhead wants to play a Kroot so badly that he'll just quit and go home if the other players don't want to have one in the obviously xenocidal campaign.

>>16740543
You sir, are a dick. I am not simply saying that because I lack a reasoned retort. But because in addition to my retort your status as a subhuman entity needs to be reiterated.

There is a gaming old adage; "No gaming is better than bad gaming". And this group had almost trapped the OP in bad gaming. The gamemaster's fun is no less important than any of the players'. Far too many gamers think that the GM is there simply to facilitate them, and they are dead wrong. The OP's players were much like yourself, dicks. Dicks who saw the game as their power fantasy that the GM was obligated to fulfill without regard to his own fun. This thread and the last had shown that the OP was in no way fit for this group, and instead of compromising they forced him to keep going at their pace - a dick move. And when their own dickish tenancies got them spanked he was fair and working within the RAW as they had ordered him to do. Their failure was their own construction. THEY destroyed the group by pushing the OP too far. Yet you chastise the OP, you sir are no better than them.

>>16740637
Fuck off, you preaching hack. The GM's fun is AS IMPORTANT AS the players' fun. Guess what? The players didn't have fun. Two wrongs don't make a right, fucko. Before you put me on the level of ungrateful cunts of players, I'm a forever-GM who knows how things work in the real world.

>>16740295
I am really glad i got to see this.
You did the right thing OP, I hope you have better luck with your new group.

As some other have said, an all kroot campaign could be lots of fun. Consider it.

>>16740627
>This is like an instance in a video game where you start out with tons of badass powers, fight the final boss, and lose them all

It's more like an instance in a video game where you decide to go straight for the final boss, despite having completed, at best, 5% of the game, and being in no way prepared for the fight, then losing everything EXCEPT your life and the scorched remains of your shitty horse-drawn cart, which you stole.

Too bad in this game you can't reload your saves.

>>16740627
Except that the only reason that they managed to get all those badass powers was by insisting on a pure RAW campaign and abusing the fuck out of broken macrobattery and boarding rules. But that's not a problem, it's only a problem when RAW gets used against them?

You are an awesome GM, and I'm happy to see some bad players get their just desserts.

>>16740572
I do not see any point in OP's story where he went on a power trip. He's the GM; he is not only entitled but obliged to use his power to safeguard the internal consistency of the game. That he did so in a way that was less than entirely favorable is still more lenient than was required by the situation. He was being more generous than many more competent and experienced GMs would have been, believe me.

You, or another who is quite similar to you have spoken of the point that a game should be fun. This is an admirable goal and a necessary ideal. A game should me at least amusing and an acceptable and accessible use of time for all involved - including the Game Master themself. Regardless of the opinions of the more obtuse, the GM is in their own right more a player and less a babysitter. The GM is entitled to enjoy the passtime as much as anyone else at the table, even though their share of responsibility is immensely greater.

OP did in fact make a point of voicing their concerns, in what I am inclined to believe is a reasonable and repeated manner, but they were rebuffed by representatives of the noble PC group. They then, if you have read the story, attempted to soldier on in the face of increasing faggotry. The players, in this case, have faced but one set back, although it is a major one for their characters. Is it all indicative that they chose to shuffle off into the good night at the first real sign of fair resistance or assertiveness?

>>16740654
I haven't said shit about RAW, there is no fucking rule written in the book that says "if they players fuck up you must utterly destroy them until they aren't having fun". There IS a section that says to remember that it's all about having fun.

Guess what? The GM has access to the same broken-ass rules, so why didn't he use them? Instead, he just fucked them in the narrative where they can't fight back.

>>16740627
>Above any situation preference, I think the most important thing is that the group has fun. The WHOLE group. Not just the GM, and not just the players.

The players had already said fuck you to the GM being able to have fun long ago.

>>16740663
That's when you end the campaign, like a reasonable adult, rather than being better at playing pretend when you hold all the cards until they ragequit.

>>16740661
>he just fucked them in the narrative where they can't fight back

This is completely incorrect. They had every chance to back out, but they pressed on, and got their ship wrecked.

>>16740661
They can and did fight back, if you have read OP's account. They simply didn't succeed. In no game, ever, are players entitled to succeed based only the fact that they wanted to.

Sometimes you win, and sometimes you lose. Other times, you survive. A little perspective is in order here, 'cause it looked to me like the players got off pretty light.

>>16740647
Your behavior in this thread seems to imply otherwise. Assuming you are not the lying faggot you look like, I too am a forever GM - having only one player character to my name in the last 7 years. I, however, have found groups I fit with where we are able to compromise over situations such as RAW, RAW and what is expected from the game. Unlike this group, and presumably you, the players I play with are not hypocrites (knowing enemy ship stats while chiding the GM for metagame knowledge), know that while they are the protagonists they are not gods - unless we are playing Exalted, and do not get pissy when things are not running exactly as they had planned. I'm sorry, mister dick, but you are in the wrong here. Deal. With. It.

>>16740661

The point is that the GM followed the rules in terms of burning of fate. They survived a situation that would have otherwise meant certain death. That was all he was required to do, and so that's all he did do.

In this case, it worked out as "oh, that last torpedo that would have totally ruined you never existed, and the eldar let you get away instead of just running your ship down and killing you again."

The rules for burning fate say nothing of the condition in which they survive, just that they survive.

>>16740295

Am I the only one who felt that the GM did the right thing? They made genuinely stupid mistakes, despite fair warning- Way more than my GM would've given, to tell you the truth. Hell, they even survived, too, in a logical manner.

Anyone read Ravenor? They had a good chance of escaping on the Imperium Frigate, to turn it into a more small-scale DH-esque campaign instead.

In my opinion, the GM did the right thing by making them spend almost a decade wandering in space with no food.
If a player falls into a volcano into lava, and burns fate to escape the situation, does that mean there is some kind of deus ex machina to launch them out of the fiery pit into a medicae tent? No, they lay there and burn some more, burning fate until there is none left to burn. Then, they die. If someone fishes them out, they live, but as burnt shells of men.
OP's scenario fits the "burnt shells of men" caveat nicely. Burning fate means you are barely alive at the point you resume your gameplay. He could have been much more cruel and state that they escaped in a pod together with enough rations to get them a few weeks. They'd be nearly dead from starvation by the time they were rescued, stir-crazy, and probably really mad.

The GM decided to have some fun before saying fuck you to a group of painful players.

He even left them their lives, and most of their ship. He punished them for abusing the mechanics of the game, and being overzealous faggots.

He should not begrudged for what he did, and I would expect no better were I acting like that group.

>>16740688
Or worse, it could have been the eldar who picked them up.

>>16740696
Or they could have had a functional warp engine but lost their gellar field.

Right, well, apparently I'm the vast minority here, being the only one (as far as I can tell) who thinks the OP went too far. I'm going to just leave the thread now, because nobody is really listening either way.

I just want to re-iterate before I go: The objective of a role playing GAME is to have FUN. It was wrong when the GM (OP) wasn't having fun, there's no denying that. It was not any better for the OP to destroy the fun that the players were having. It would have been better for all involved if the campaign had just been dropped.

>>16740708
Oh, we're listening. We just know you are wrong. And while your assertions that the game is about fun are true, these players had seemingly bullied the OP into GMing against his fun. And they needed to be shown a lesson before the group ended the only way it really could at that point.

>>16740708
Oh, we listened. You're just not saying anything that makes sense. OP didn't force anybody to not have fun, in fact he really livened the game up for them. If they didn't want a RAW campaign with reliable consequences, why'd they have OP GM for them?

>>16740735
>>16740736
>ragemind

>>16740708
> It was not any better for the OP to destroy the fun that the players were having. It would have been better for all involved if the campaign had just been dropped.

... Or they could have continued playing, learned that clinging to RAW, no matter how appealing in the short run, will just backfire in the end, learned that even PCs have limits, and learned possibly the most basic lesson of all: that the GM asking "are you sure about that" is a very, very bad sign.

Then the campaign could have continued, improved, and been fun for everyone involved.

Sometimes we need to lose. It can be a good learning experience. If you never lose, they you never know your limits.

>>16740702

SAVE YOURSELF FROM HELL.

On the bright side, that's a good way to start a Black Crusade campaign.

>>16740748
>the GM asking "are you sure about that" is a very, very bad sign

The fact that OP asks at all is to his credit.

And a lesson to be learned here: rules are meant to be an abstraction of the expected outcome of a set of events. Where said rules fail to produce reasonable or expected results, the GM intercedes to fill in the gaps. So sayeth the Dice God!

....the hell is RAW?

>>16740744
Come on, son. You can do better than that.

>>16740765
a terrible acronym, Ruled As Written.

favored by anal rules lawyer times that don't like reasonable interpretations.

>>16740765
"Rules as written."

Essentially it means that you stick to what the book says, exactly what it says, no matter how stupid or obviously broken it is.

>>16740759
So, who is this "Dice God" you speak of? Like, what alignment?

Because, y'know, I'd totally convert...

>>16740765
RAW = Rules As Written
You will be hard pressed to find a game that can be played exactly as written without either the GM or the Players abusing the fuck out of little issues that may not have been exploited by playtesters.

While the d20 system is probably the worst offender currently popular, the ship combat in the FFG 40k games allow for such obscene levels of bonus stacking that you cannot challenge the players without a lucky roll, adapting the rules or grievously outnumbering them.

RAW is opposed by RAI or Rules As Intended. The act of playing a game with the spirit of how was written in mind and adjusting the little issues that fell through the cracks to create a fun and challenging game for all involved.

>>16740765
Rules As Written.
Usually used to mean that the players / GM aren't house-ruling anything at all, regardless of whether it makes for a better game or not.

This let the players in this game abuse a broken rule to win a lot of engagements they otherwise shouldn't have been able to.

>>16740787
Chaotic Random

RAW - an application of warpcraft that allows players to bend reality into unnatural shapes by covering their ears and squealing "BUT THE BOOK SAYS SO!"

>>16740805
Chaotic...? That sounds a bit like heresy to me.

Is there anyone else here who would be totally fine with having all of this done to their character? Personally, I think the STOP RIGHT THERE CRIMINAL SCUM punchline at the end would have made the whole thing worth it. The sheer absurdity of a character surviving eight long, brutal years of starvation only for some guard to come along and tell him that he's under arrest is hilarious. I'm reminded of something I was told in the first Rogue Trader campaign that I played in.

Sometimes a good joke needs a person to be the butt of the joke. If you're not willing to let your character be the butt of the joke, then how can you expect anyone else to let their character be the butt of the joke? You need to separate yourself and your character. Your character being humiliated is not the same as you being humiliated.

Seeing that philosophy in action for the first time was pretty amusing.

>>16740821
You say that like it's a bad thing.

>>16740830
I don't know, after 8 years, looking nothing like I had in my prime... If I'd been the RT himself, I'd have tried using that fanfuckingtastic Charm to convince whoever would listen that I was not in fact the man, but this was all case of mistaken identity, I'm a shipwreck survivor, was only a passenger, totally blameless, thanks for the lift home, Emprah Protect you noble captain for your assistance!

Hey, it would be more believable than trying to take out a craftworld with one imperial vessel.

But yes, it would have made a great gag ending.

>>16740798
Actually, I found that one way is to use torpedos, like OP did.

Combined with the NPC order mechanic, they get really good. After all, while torpedos can't be improved by the extended actions of EXPLORERS, the rules don't say anything about the NPC orders system, do they? So if you cover your ears and scream "that's what the book says" loudly enough, then target lock works to improve the BS of NPC fired torpedos.

>We kept arguing until eventually he just settled on saying that with eight degrees of success on charm he should just get what he wanted

I originally recommended in the other thread to try and make it work, but I think you made the right call here by playing the scenario straight.

It's unfortunate that the whole group was too tightly focused on a power trip exercise; while a little of it can really contribute to player enjoyment it sounds like it had gotten too far out of hand.

>>16740843
A pity they didn't play it out. That could have gone interesting places.

>>16740830
> Seeing that philosophy in action for the first time was pretty amusing.

Story time? Story time!

I saw the first thread in this series, but didn't post in it. Am posting now to congratulate the GM. As your players continued to act like colossal assholes, it seems like you did your very best to bite back the incoherent rage you felt and just run the game.

They should have known that assaulting a Craftworld is a BIG DEAL with BIG CONSEQUENCES, whether you win or lose. The fact that they came at this Craftworld with a single ship is further sign of their willful ignorance. That's like attacking an Imperial world and getting upset when said world just happens to have a fleet on standby to defend it. Well no shit, moron. Galactic empires have a tendency to protect their investments.

Anyway, as far as the group goes, I'd say cut your losses and start fresh. Get a hold of that Kroot guy and see if he has any friends that would like to play. Also, laugh when you hear about the new Rogue Trader campaign that that faggot said he'd run collapsing within three sessions.

>>16740862
It's late. Maybe another time.

Thinking about what was going on from the eldar perspective...

>Negotiating with local corsair scum.
>Mon Keigh ship, armed, jumps into our territory.
>Filthy creatures within weapon range of our babies!
>Broadcasts greetings and platitudes.
>Farseers shake heads, say it is bullshit.
>Mon Keigh becomes more desperate, cries for civil war
>Corsairs say they've got this one, it's coo'.

>>16740894
Probably earned the corsairs some cool points with the Craftworld Farseers to boot.

The arrest at the end may have been a tad heavy handed but I'd have been excited to play from that point onwards... oh sure I'm a fan of small scale and being the underdog but all the same it wasn't by far the end of the game. They were crippled but not dead and were even given an opportunity to have power again... all they same they packed up like spoiled children and went home.

>>16740708
>Imperial Navy Dauntless that promptly announced that they were all under arrest for piracy.

This is the perfect opportunity for them to take the game back in a fun direction. If they are under arrest, it means the Navy isn't just going to blow them up, but take them on-board, probably even taking them to a more populated system to be judged. Surely if these players were so confident in their ability to cause an unreasonable amount of hesitation and even infighting in a craftworld's fleet, they should be capable of swaying the minds of some imperials, from their guards up to some administratum officials.

They got exactly what they should have considering the silly expectations of control they wanted over something they would have no control over. That they ran away from the game shows how little they were interested in actually playing anything past going through the motions until their inevitable victory.

I am so very, very thankful that my own RT group is nothing like this. Honestly, what did the Rogue Trader expect? Social skills are not magic. Some lines are just going to outright fail and telling the GM to fill in all the details is bullshit. You don't need to be a public speaker, but you need to provide the framework of what your character is saying.

I think that your only flaw was using vortex torpedoes, unless the players were extremely notorious and known to be highly dangerous.

>>16740946
It sounds like they were pretty much spoiled children. They wanted to play a game which was structured around them being allowed to exploit every mechanical advantage in the game. The GM exploited back, making quite reasonable use of the resources that an Eldar Craftworld would have, and they threw a shitfit.

Out of curiosity, OP, how old were the players?

>>16740947
This. If they can't convince the Imperial officers on board for leniency, they could always try to stage a mutiny and take over their ship. If not, they can try their luck in the courts. Opportunities remain.

This is a rogue trader command crew that has been to hell and back - neither a kroot warsphere, a corsair fleet nor their fucking vortex torpedos or even 8 years of starvation has stopped them yet, and yet they're daunted by legality? These are supposed to be resourceful and daring people, possibly hardened and dangerous at this point. Backed into a corner with nothing to lose, they should be at their very best!

>>16740953
> I think that your only flaw was using vortex torpedoes, unless the players were extremely notorious and known to be highly dangerous.

Nightshades are known to carry vortex torpedoes in addition to their usual loadout. And against a lunar, especially from the front, the fact that they ignore armor makes them ideal.

Plus, if you go this >>16740894
reading of the situation, the corsairs were probably showing off a bit. I mean, they were intercepting a filthy human ship that was trying to make a run on a craftworld. Doing it in a quick, decisive manner probably earns them some points.

>>16741003
That's some fine justification. Colour me convinced.

>>16740295

OP you are so totally redeemed.

THANK YOU <3

But yeah, your players had it coming...

OP?

I am proud.

After fucking them up, you probably should have given them some respite.

But it sounds like a shit group anyway, good work OP.

>>16741125
I thought OP did give them respite. Like, 8 years of it or so.

OP, I remember your old thread. You did a good job with the actual assault.

>They would survive to see their cruiser degenerate into a ghost ship manned only by the four PCs, gnawing on the bones of their fellow men, kept alive only by the twisted whims of fate.
>my face
what a fitting ending for some galavanting pirates on a power trip. So very 40k, I love it.

Shame about the lack of a decent group in your area though.

>>16740496
>the PCs enjoy a very sizable advantage over NPC ships
Only if you don't give the NPCs Fate Points and command crew to do extended actions with like you're supposed to be doing.

ya know what, OP?

you're all right.

You gave those twats plenty, and I mean PLENTY of chances to back out. You suggested they at least call for assistance. Then you gave them chances to back out AFTER they decided, fuck that, we don't need no help, and your suggestions as the DM mean fuck all to us, and, after all that, even after they'd been blown to scrap metal, you effectively gave them ANOTHER chance, when they were under arrest for piracy. something tells me they could have, at the least, caused an uprising on the dauntless and started from square one. instead they acted like petulant children.

You're better off with them gone. assuming their campaign works, all it's gonna be is masturbation of the highest order.

I think the lesson here is that if the GM ever, ever asks you "Are you sure?" You think twice before saying yes and then take the consequences like a damn man.

Whenever I've had a GM ask me if I was sure, or whenever I've asked my players the same question, it's been because the GM is worried that players decision will lead to a no fun situation. Either he has to stick to the integrity of the world and his integrity as GM and quite possibly kill the players, or he has to break the rules to let the players do whatever the hell they want and if the game has reached that point why the fuck is the GM even there.

I have far more respect for the GM who chooses the former over the later.

>>16741208
To be fair I don't think that any book mentions that you should do this. Even the most recent ones just give NPC ships a good crew rating. You're right, though. NPC do need a few skilled officers aboard or they're utterly shit compared to PC controlled ones.

>>16740953
>>16741003
Also, Eldar are fucking insane when it comes to Craftworlds. It's not unlike them to pull out all the stops to protect one, and it's also not unlike them to already know what might happen thanks to Farseers.

>>16741208
>>16741318

I find that giving NPC ships a 50 rated crew (or 60 for flag ships, a nemesis's ship, or similarly important vessel) and then using the NPC order system in the back of Battlefleet Koronus works well. Also, as mentioned before, torpedoes are good equalizers as well. Squadrons too.

Though it seems to not have mattered, squadrons allow you to get eldar ships with BS100 pulsar lances, which are truly terrifying things.

Really, BFK is a gold mine.

>>16741318
>>16741208
The players demanded RAW. And RAW says nothing about Fate Points and extended actions. Its very clear that they are intended to have them, but the actual rules are not there for it.

>>16741318
Except all RT adventures give significant NPC ships command staff with talents and bonuses related to ship combat. Pic related.

>>16741399
See >>16741405. Its not "said in the book," but its clear from the entire line's direction (NPCs are the same as PCs) that anything you can do, they can do too.

>>16741409
You've never dealt with a group like the OP's haven't you? Unless the main rule book explicitly says that they have Fate Points and command ratings comparable to player characters then they don't and the GM is a houseruling faggot for doing it.

>>16741318

But it really is obvious enough it shouldn't be said. The GM is playing their parts, and should be playing them as appropriately hard as suits the story. The best fix for this I ever saw is using guests to play as the enemy party. One game of Rogue Trader I watched happening involved a party going nuts with all kinds ofexploitative shenanigans the GM didn't care to control, because he didn't care that they were taking on entire Orkish navies with a handful of ships. But when they got overconfident and decided they could run circles around an Imperial expeditionary fleet, he brought in a special guest to play the Fleet Admiral, a Spergmaster kid whose ability to fuck the rules was nigh-biblical, and then taking back over after they lost catastrophically to subsequently destroy their empire in a political masterplay. Sure, you can run rings around the huge children whose only asset is retarded numbers. It's like getting cocky because you outplayed a whole preschool at once. But then you think you're awesome ,and BAM. Now you're up against an Imperialised Reinhard von Lohengramm and all your ships are already on fire.

Protecting the players from the consequences of their decisions is stripping them of the agency that is their only route into the game. It's a bad thing to do. You only alter such consequences as are needed to maintain the narrative and the atmosphere of the game, and in a 40K game, that almost never means takign away bad ones.

>>16741427
>But it really is obvious enough it shouldn't be said.

But it is not said. Thus making it houseruling in the minds of douchenozzles like the OP's group.

>>16741417
>Unless the main rule book explicitly says that they have Fate Points and command ratings comparable to player characters
Except it does. You can give NPCs the Touched by the Fates trait and every ship has a captain. There are several outlined in the back of the book, in the NPC section. Unless you think ships are run by democracy and commanded by bilge rats with a Fel of 20, you should gravitate towards the examples of NPC ships given to you in the book.

>>16741438
Again, that is not an explicit statement. It is a clear declaration of intent. But not a rule in the book that says flat out that it is exactly how it is supposed to work. To understand the situation that the OP was in you have to get into the mindset of sperging rules lawyers and not reasonable human beings.

>>16741472
Where does it say that NPCs work differently than PCs and that the actions are special things only PCs can do?

>>16741478
The fact that it lists the actions as being preformed by explorers? Which are the players?

>>16741478
You tell me where it explicitly states that NPCs have Fate Points first.

>>16741484
>each ship receives
>each ship can perform Actions
>Extended Actions are only available to characters
>They represent characters
Do you know what the C in NPC means?

>>16741487
Okay!

although i do like what op has don't i personally would have had something more personal, for instance having aspect warriors teleporting into their ship, warp spiders taking out the engines and gunning crews while banshees and scorpions slaughter everyone else, but don't let the pc's see them, just have the crew screaming over vox and being cut off or banshee's howls echoing through the halls and corridors, Turned the whole thing into a game of cat and mouse on their hamstrung ship.

Even they manage to find some eldar they may just manage to kill them, but by the time they do their ship is no-longer in a state to combat the craft world

>>16741484

>>16741542
Of course, unless the ship has a really good crew rating, an extended action is more likely to fail than not. Plus in order to actually do anything major, you need more than just successes, you need degrees of success.

>>16741542

>>16741546
I'm pretty sure >>16741405 can succeed at many extended actions, especially combined with her Veteran (50) crew. And remember that every ship has a Navigator and an Astropath, minimum, and has access to their special actions as well, even if just at crew rating.

You know what my DH tech priest would have done? Improvised! (like like biologis heretic she was)

In the first month BEFORE supplies ran out she would have got a detailed manifest of all of the supplies on the ship. Urging the party faces to spread glorious propaganda on the ship (not like they have windows or the internet amiright?) keeping the natives calm.

Using some very simple logic tests she would calculate the number of officers that could live off the slaughtered remains of her (sorry, her Captains) crew. Gathering those high ranking officers with the necessary skills, engineers etc work would progress around the ship to set up the ability to instantly depressurize the food for the trip back (or simply flooding the air with N2 and lowering the temperature, whatever is the easiest). Now at least when you get to your destination you have a semblance of a skeleton crew who will probably see the emperors light shining out of our arses for preserving their lives concidering the filthy Xenos didn't even take in our lives cleanly during our righteous battle!
>pic totally now everyone that survived the 8 year journey on long pork jerky at all! ahahahahaahahahaaa!

>>16741572

Yes, but you're a roleplayer and not a whiny, tantrum-throwing, candy-demanding bitch.

>>16741572
Well, I know what my group's next side encounter will be.

WELP.
REINSTALLING SINS OF A SOLAR EMPIRE.

>>16740627
>You get three fate points if you're lucky, so losing one is a big fucking deal, and this GM doesn't seem the type to give them out easily.
One of my players started with five.

>>16741733
Two of mine did. They've lost and gained fate points since then. The latter was for epic, sector shaping deeds. The former was for doing stupid shit like trying to go toe to toe with a Howling Banshee Exarch or taunting a Traitor Astartes with a bolter while in the open.

Two questions:
1: What is the meaning of a RAW campaign? I am outsider and I dont understand the meaning.
2: Have anyone get a pdf of Fallen Suns? Thanks

>>16741754
1. RAW is Rules As Written. Typically it means the players or GM don't want any house rules in their campaign. In the case of Rogue Trader, you NEED house rules to provide the players with a challenge on their terms, otherwise it becomes a fanwank about how powerful they are.
2. >>>/rs/fallen+suns

>>16741771
>as though it is on /rs/
You are such a help.

>>16741778
If it's not on /rs/, nobody has it. QED.

Your players are bitches. My group, which is accustomed to the ol' cock-and-ball torture prison bit, would have stuck it out, come out the other side, been arrested, sat through jail with some "on with it on with it" rolling hand gestures, and then planned REVENGE.

Then, after the fourth or fifth cycle of revenge plants, they would have enacted their REVENGE. And thus the game continues.

OP i neeeeed you to reference this campaign in your next. if you cant find a group, look no further my established story teller. See us here at 4 chan, we gots what you needs. ask for a group of the best, and then just play online. fuck this real life shit.

Seriously though, if your last group wasnt so butt hurt they coulda played a really, really cool mini game for 8 years based off of DH rules, delt with evil whispers from the warp, then played some black crusade, melt the flesh of their crew into the ship, take on a few demons, BAM. CHAOS SON. Go on back to the eldar with all the love and grace of the great devourer!

Heres my two cents.
Never really rped in a pen and paper but i love this board and reading storys paticularly 40k pen and papper games. i just dont have a group to play with.

In the setting of 40k you cant expect to become the ultimate badass slayer of the god emperor.

When players do this its power tripping or doing something retarded for the hell of it. They always seem to cry and complain when they fail. yet they took on odds they didnt have a chance of taking on and then cry afoul when there dead.

These players should have accepted there fate. Trying to bum's rush past the GM is clearly poor roleplaying. The GM gave them an out to escape. they pressed on.

Now past that all there floating in space without a warp drive. I'd have fun roleplaying that. The lost ship of the damn in space. watching factions take over blah blah blah. Hell the GM could had even made it really fun (if these characters were willing to have fun and roleplay within the universe and not power trip) and had like chaos or something slowly begin to creep into there vessel and corrupt there crew or them.

I think it'd be awesome then again i dont really care what direction storylines go as long as there entertaining.

It's all good and sensible, I would have done the exactly same thing, but one thing keeps bugging me. After losing the Warp drive, didn't they have an Astropath onboard to send a distress call? If they were fugitives, they would have been arrested, but at least they wouldn't have to wait 8 years.

>>16741487
All FFG adversaries do not possess fate points unless they have that quality (blessed by the fates or something?) that gives them fate points.

Concerning GMNPCs, that's up to the GM.

>>16743122
Touched by the Fates. 1/2 Willpower Bonus (rounding up, I -think-) fate points for the NPC in possession of the talent. It's designed for the movers and shakers of a campaign.

>>16741879
You pretty much hit the nail on the head. The campaign sounded like a power trip for the players to see how much they could fuck over.

OP, why didn't you tell us of your player douchebaggery in the first thread? I was one of the people advocating "let them have a game" because I had assumed they were decent but overly-ambitious players. Instead, they are dicks.

Honestly, I'm torn on this; on one hand, OP's players seemed to be an entirely That Guy group of metagaming cunts, thus making their eventual end justified (and more than a little satisfying.)

At the same time, I feel disappointed in the OP for resorting to attacking his bad players through the medium of the game; however I look at it, I can't help but conclude that OP couldn't stomach simply telling them that they're totally out of line/leaving them and finding another group, and instead resorted to passive aggression. Don't get me wrong, I hope your next group turns out better than those chucklefucks, but dealing with group conflicts as you did is a tad unhealthy.

Of course, it did make a good story, which in the end is all that will matter around these parts.

>>16743322
I dunno. They could have rolled with the punches. As others have remarked spending 8 years shipwrecked and/or escaping the subsequent captivity of the Imperial Navy could make for some awesome sessions. They just didn't have the stomach for playing a scenario which wasn't them being incredibly awesome and abusing both system and setting.

>>16744338

...which is why I have full sympathy for OP. I may or may not have done the same myself, but I understand why he did, and I'm cool with it.

Throne have mercy, my sides ache!

Wonderful work, OP. You gave them due warning, and followed through on the rational response to a stupid idea. I am proud.

Would love to see this archived, as a cautionary tale to future THAT GUYS...

>>16742283
OP here. They actually had a couple of astropaths, the problem was that they were rather weak ones that had been part of the choir. Their main astropath, the one they needed for long distance communications, they shot for back talk much, much earlier.

>>16747613
oh wow...

now thats a totaly deserved TPK

OP, reading this now, if you did not murder them, I will disappoint.

>>16747712
Yeah, it turns out there are multiple levels of short-sighted fuckery to this sordid tale.

>inb4 We Must Go Deeper

>>16747613
Wait...what?

Now my pic is true...

>>16747613

Such a waste of good crew. And they never replaced this key member.

They deserved to die.

Incidentally op, where are from?
(I want in on your game if you're in the area)

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html
Vote for it, this is an example that needs to be remembered

>>16747613