>>15170866
Character advancement is free-form, with XP investment improving skills and attributes. Virtues are extremely difficult to improve, and shouldn't change much over the course of a typical game. There are a number of special techniques available to choose from, each classified under a relevant skill. Higher skill ranks are prerequisites for more advanced techniques.

Core races consist of Deku Scrub, Gerudo, Goron, Hylian, Kokiri, and Zora, with more under discussion. Each race gets a couple nifty abilities (eg, Gorons can roll into a ball and roll around, Zora can breathe underwater, and so forth), except for Hylians, who instead get a +1 to the Virtue of their choice (though this can't be applied to put any Virtue over the usual starting limit of 4). No other races get any bonuses to Virtues. Each race also has a Mass score, which affects movement speed, getting knocked/pushed around, use of the hookshot/clawshot, and so forth.

Damage is measured in hearts, and can be dealt in fractions of up to 1/4 heart. Your character has hearts equal to 2 + Physical, making the minimum number of hearts 3. Hearts can be increased by increasing your Physical or Courage values, or by obtaining Pieces of Heart and Heart Containers, which will be distributed as rewards for beating bosses and tough puzzles and the like.

There was more, but it was lost in the 404. (This was super-condensed, see wiki)

What happened, /tg/? did the getting-shit-done machine run out of fuel after 8 threads?

We were working on techniques and racial bonuses/prerequisites, as I recall. How's about we get crackin'?

Character sheet is certainly looking good!

So do we have a pdf on /rs/ yet?

pic unrelated

It seems like trying to tackle the crunch for Techniques is scaring people off a bit.

>>15170883
Damn, without the last thread to use a reference, I don't know exactly what got decided on last time.

Any of you elegan/tg/entlemen at the last thread?

Well, I'll let any newcomers check the wiki, and see what we should start on first. I hope to get this in beta-testing soon; I hope you'll all join me for that!

>>15170939
Then I guess we'll set that aside until more crunchtastic people arrive.

>>15170936
Not yet; we plan to once we have the game in beta.


I guess we should decide how Dungeon design will work. Any ideas? I'm used to either very rigid designs like D&D, or very freeform settings like my gaming group's bastardization of Godlike. I have no middle ground to reference, so do any of you have suggestions?

I personally feel that a somewhat freeform dungeon design would work well, but it require a VERY quick-thinking GM who could think of puzzles and solutions almost on-the-spot, and taking into account different character's approaches to individual problems.

Dear God, you beautiful bastard, you actually managed to iron out the system enough to actually build a character? I'm in awe.
So are techniques intended to be like feats from D&D, that give fancy, flashy, situational bonuses that enhance you far more than mere stats? Or are they something else entirely?

>>15171030
Oh no, I most certainly couldn't have done it without help.

And techniques are sort of like feats. Think of them as something akin to Twilight Princess' Hidden Skills. Each Technique grant's some ability (some passive, some active) that you can use with a skill. For example, low rank |Melee| techniques would be the Jump Attack, or Spin Attack. Each technique has prerequisites in the form of Virtue requirements, Attribute requirements, Skill requirements, and/or Technique requirements.

Techniques are what add the final level of customization to a character. For example, 2 characters could be Courage/Physical and dump everything into |Melee|, but one could take fast moving, flashy, swashbuckling techniques while the other picks brawling, smashy-smashy fighting moves.

'archive.easymodo.net' has the thread somewhere, if you are willing to track it down. Would be pointless to cause the most recent work a lost cause.

>>15171087
Aha! Thank you my good sir. I knew not that /tg/ had such a wonderful thing.

http://archive.easymodo.net/tg/thread/15139192

Self-bump. I hate to see the project slow down this much, especially when it had so much momentum before. I'll be heading to bed soon; hope this thread is still here tomorrow. I'm poorly suited to all this crunch work, but once I get situated in a couple days I'll be able to drawfag like there's no goddamn tomorrow.

Here's hoping this project picks up steam once more!

Part of what caused things to die down was a crisis of faith in our dice pool system.

>>15171234
Self-bump finale. I'll see all you in the morning (unless this thread dies). I was hoping this could get picked up again, but I guess /tg/ just isn't very productive on Sundays. Ciao.

>>15171330
Ninja'd! Hey Temp, good to see you again. Yeah, I caught some of that discussion. What was the final verdict? I personally don't see a problem with roll Skill + Attribute Keep Virtue, but I think that had been edited to borderline nonrecognition. Think you can give me the breakdown real quick 'fore I retire?

Woah, nice character sheet. Nice to see this project made some progress.

>>15171335
I'm thinking you've hit the wall most /tg/ projects die on. When it comes to testing, fine-tuning and other hard work, fa/tg/uys are going to suddenly have other things they need to do elsewhere.

If you want to see this succeed, tighten your belt and do the grunt work off-site with or without similarly devoted people.

Then be sure to post the finished product here so we can take the credit for it.

>>15171347
Part of the issue was the state of unopposed rolls in combat, how it was better to have fewer kept dice in combat.

>look at this example >>15148432 where the hero rolled 4k4 to attack while the octorok rolled 3k2 on active defense
>hero rolled 5, 5, 3, 2
>octorok rolled 4, 3, 2
>5>4
>5>3
>now the hero's unopposed die are failures because they're against a target number of 4 (3<4) but if the octorok had rolled 3k3 instead of 3k2 it would have been 3>2, so the octorok would have taken more damage and was actually better off having less kept dice

The other issue was how players with too low of a Virtue would be unable to complete non-combat skill checks that required more successes than they had kept dice.

>>15171448
Hm. I see what you mean. I still believe that unopposed dice should be successes, to represent an attacker with more kept dice overwhelming his opponent. Like how in Twilight Princess, powerful enough enemies could break through your guard and damage you, even with your shield up (Zant's energy balls, for instance.)

As far as Too low Virtue = Impossible task... ok? so what? So the 1 Power Deku Scrub physically can NOT push the half-ton stone slab around. He shouldn't be able to. Though if the issue is something like someone with 5 |Acrobatics| but only 1 Courage can't leap a gorge or do some jump or something, I thought we had something going where Skill ranks alternated between boosting Roll AND Keep.

>>15171488
Ok, really need to get some sleep now, so I'll catch up on this tomorrow.

Answer me this, though: Was that Staggering keyword I suggested kept? I don't think I caught the conclusion of that.

>Unopposed checks not being helpful
Simply subtract any unopposed checks before the initial rolls and consider them automatic successes. This will keep the REAL rolls even, and still make sure unopposed checks are useful. Keep in mind that most unopposed checks are gonna be only one, maybe two increments unless one of the opposing sides are ridiculously under powered or now skilled against the opponent's ability.

>Some checks impossible for certain builds due to low virtues.
This is what being specialized does: Makes it near impossible for some non combat skills to be possible,. This also means players will have to rely on eachother. That Hylian warrior is gonna need that Rito bard's help bribing the horde of moblins from attacking them, after all.

>>15171617
yeah, if characters are going to be highly specialized it makes sense that they wont be able to do the same things. It fits with the source material here too. Think about Majora's Mask: your Deku Scrub form had low physical, and so couldnt push heavy blocks around whereas your Goron form could.

what's for DINNER

>>15171488
yeah, i think the problem is easily solved by just considering unopposed checks to automatically be successful in combat. It also lets powerful characters cut through mooks easily, which is once again in keeping with source material

So unopposed dice on combat rolls are auto-successes and having a high Physical doesn't necessarily make you strong unless you also have a high Power? High Physical + high Wisdom means you're nimble or agile while high Physical + high Courage means you have high endurance or something like that? I'm okay with this. If we're going to rely on extra kept dice from high skill ranks making up for low virtues, then I think we should go with every odd skill rank gives you and extra kept die rather than only the third and sixth ranks(this was being discussed in the last thread). Otherwise I might suggest something like letting natural sixes that are part of your kept dice give you an extra kept die or sumfin

>>15172820
I think if we're already doing relatively large dice pools and linear comparison we don't want to complicate it more by adding a six again rule. Plus i don't really see the function it would serve.

I do agree that high skill needs to let you keep more dice though. That way a character can become a good swordsman with practice even if he has low physical or something.

>>15171071
I also think of Techniques as adding kind of a strategic element. You might use a heavy attack or something like Spin Attack to knock an enemy on his ass and then you or someone else in your party might use Ending Blow which can only be used on prone enemies to finish him off. Or you might be first in the initiative order but decide to hold your action and wait for the enemy to swing that huge hammer at you and then you use Back Slice before he can use his second action to recover so he doesn't get a defense roll. Much like in the vidya.

>>15170866

I don't fully understand what you start with in terms of Virtues and Attributes.
As in for starting amount to place where the player wishes.
Any help appreciated, thanks

>>15173477
Everyone automatically gets a minimum of 1 point in each Virtue and Attribute. At character creation you get 4 points to put into Virtues and 4 points to put into Attributes at a cost of 1 per point. Virtues and Attributes cannot exceed a rating of 4 at character creation. The maximum absolute maximum for each is 6.

It was discussed, to my memory.
That in some cases in a 4+ success it would be better to have lower kept die
Something like, hero with 4k3 and enemy with 3k2
I can't remember the number crunching though - Sorry.

>>15173513

Okay, so to start you get
Power: 1
Wisdom: 1
Courage: 1
With 4 points to spread about, meaning that one virtue will always be higher - And Hylians which get a free Virtue point.
Something along the lines of, for non-Hylians
>Power: 3
>Wisdom: 2
>Courage: 2

And the same for Attributes, I assume
>Physical: 4
>Mental: 2
>Spiritual: 1

I guess that makes this character melee-ish. Right?

>>15173560
That is correct. However, most melee weapons actually rely on Courage while some that rely more on precision and planning might use Wisdom. Power, on the other hand, is used for all heavy weapons.

>>15173596

Okay, nice. Thank you.
I'll try and notepad up a Gerudo for funsies to check it all out.

just tell me one thing...

Do kokiris get an bonus against annoyance to not bottle their fairys and throw them into a volcano by the thousanth time his/her fairy went *WATCH OUT ITS A PIECE OF WOOD*

another thing, does it actually have rules for going around and cutting down high grass for rupees? like, everytime you make a whirlwind attack around pots or plant you get one d6 rupees or something

>>15173691
That's more up to the GM at this point. We're currently trying to hammer out combat.
And it really depends on if the GM has the piccori as part of the setting or not, since they're the canon explanation for that.
Oh, and 1d6 Rupees Doesn't really work with the games, where there's only singular green/blue rupees in grass. And sometimes yellow in pots..
Maybe use a table, like so:
>1:No Rupees
>2-3:Green Rupee
>4-5:Blue Rupee
>6: YELLOW RUPEE WHOOHOO

HYAAAAA!

as a way to keep people from spamming techniques all the time, what do you guys think of giving everyone a fixed stamina rating of 4 and each technique takes a number of stamina equal to the number of actions required for the technique and each round you go without using a technique you regenerate 1 stamina?

>>15173983
*thud*
oOoh

I just want to say this is awesome and you are awesome for making it happen. A little bump for love.

>>15174044
But isn't a huge part of the actual games just skillspamming?
Perhaps it would be better to just add small drawbacks to the skills:
Jump Attacks, as currently written, take two actions to double the damage increment.(or at least that's what I remember it being.)
That means that just going FULL ATTACK FULL ATTACK could do more damage, depending on how many successes you get.
Of course, it's somewhat broken with Heavy weapons as is. Perhaps just add in a line about Heavy weapons needing a turn to be raised again afterwards, as if you'd done a normal attack with them.

>>15174306
Heavy weapons already take an action to recover after attacking

>>15174362
Well yeah. You just need to add in a line in stuff like Jump Attacking to make it clear that that still is so.

...Actually, couldn't you add that to the Ending Blow as well, even for non-heavy weapons? Link always needed to drag his sword back out of the ground.

>>15174394
yyyyeeeaaahhh.... you're right

is there a reason why you guys aren't stealing from Savage worlds for the skills? just have them buy dice for the skills starting at a d4 one point is a die up to d12+9.

this way techniques just need say Spinning Sword : preqs 3 courage , 1d8 melee

>>15174602
...Explain, please?
Also this system currently only uses d6, so you could only really do stuff that use d2(d6/3),d3(d6/2),d6,d12(d6*d2) and so on.
And skills should probably have some basis in the Zelda games as well.
Also I think you mean techniques.

>>15174716
in Savage worlds each point you put into a stat or skill increases the size of the die you roll. the first rank is a d4, then d6, d8, and finally d12. instead of rolling a number of successes you just have to match or beat the target number which starts at 4. you also roll a d6 which is called the "wild die". which ever is higher out of your regular die and your wild die is the one you use.

>>15174741
somehow I forgot about d10

>>15174741
>which ever is higher out of your regular die and your wild die is the one you use.
fuck i'm tired. ok, to clarify, whichever one rolls higher is the one you use. so if you have a d8 fighting skill you roll a d8 and a d6 to attack. if the d8 comes up a 3 and the d6 comes up a 5 you use the 5

>>15174716

even if you start at d2 for skills you can buy up.

something like this

>Power: 3
>Wisdom: 2
>Courage: 2

>Physical: 4
>Mental: 2
>Spiritual: 1

skills:

Melee: d6 + 4 ( die + virtue )
ranged: d3/3 + 4
sheild: d6/2 + 4
heavy: d6 + 4
acrobats: d6/2 +4

then to qualify for techniques:

Jumping strike:

prereqs: Melee d6, Acrobats d6/2 , physical 4

jump into the air slashing down with a mighty blow 2d6+ melee skill dmg.

or

spinning strike :

prereqs: melee d6, power 2, physical 3

Spinning around hitting and emeny twice for 2d6+ melee skill dmg on the first attack and half on the second

>>15174752
>>15174745
>>15174741

pretty much this, but instead just work with variations of the d6. for skills and techniques, in order to get to say a d12 you need a 6 in that corisponding stat

>>15174755
that really doesn't fit in with our dice system
at all

Just throwing out some item ideas, hopefully the format makes sense.

Grappling Hook
A versatile metal hook tied to a length of rope.
[Tool/Courage] Swinging, Grabbing, Thieving
Range 10 Damage 1/4H
Special Actions
1 Action: Make a Tool/Courage check and throw the hook up to 10 meters. The hook can cling to ledges above you, vertical and horizontal posts, and hooked objects.
1 Action: (Must be hanging on the rope) Adjust the length of the grappling hook's rope.
1 Action: (The hook must be attached to a vertical post) Secure the other end of the grappling hook to a second vertical post adjacent to you. The rope becomes a tightrope between the two points.

>>15174765

i was just doing something rouch. also the dice keep system isn't the best... and the way it is explained in the wiki needs to be fixed.

>>15174770

is everything really fixed dmg?

Magic Boomerang
An enchanted weapon, capable of locking on to targets and weaving between them.
[Ranged/Courage] Stunning, Returning, Edged
Range 10 Damage 1/2H
Special Actions
1 Action: Choose up to 5 creatures or objects within 10 meters of you. You cannot target the same object or creature more than once.
1 Action: (Must have designated targets immediately prior) Attack with the boomerang. The boomerang moves through and attacks each of the targets in the order you assigned them. The boomerang returns at the end of your next turn.

Item Name
Description
[Skill/Virtue] Tags
Range x Damage x
Special Actions
Kind of action: (Requirements for action) Action description

>>15174786
Damage is determined by successes, with each success giving another increment of that damage.

That should stay the same even if we find another way to determine successes.

>>15174786
damage is in increments
1/4h of damage means 1/4h per success

>>15174787
Just repostan' one from last thread then
Pegasus Boots
- Tool
- Equip: Foot
- Constant
Any who wear the Pegasus Boots gain a +2 to Movement Speed, and a +1k0 to Acrobatic checks.

Pegasus Charge

Requirements: Pegasus Boots equipped
XP Cost: ?
Actions: 3

This technique allows the user to charge up to double their movement speed in a straight line, plowing through anyone with equal or lower Mass in their path with a basic Melee attack. The user cannot stop unless they hit a solid object or target that is of higher Mass than they are. The target that forces the user to stop also takes a Melee attack with a +2k0 to the user's roll. All targets that are hit are pushed away from the user 1 square. This ability requires a charge time of 2 turns, so that they may rev up their attack.

Ive got some deku summons fleshed out. Assuming 10 Blocks of Mana = 60MP (6 MP per block)

With all Summoning spells, as long as your summoned creature(s) is active, MP cannot be regenerated, by any means.

Summon Deku Scrub
Cost 12mp, Duration Until Dismissed, 2 Actions, 10M Range.

Summons a Deku Scrub to the Kokiri. Deku scrub stat block:
2 Life 4 Speed 1 Mass 0 Armor
Deku Scrub has one attack
[Seed Spit] Spits a deku seed at target creature within 20meters, 2k1 Roll dealing 1 Life dmg.


Summon Deku Baba
Cost 12mp, Duration Until Dismissed, 2 Actions, 10M Range.

Summons a Deku Baba to the Kokiri. Deku Baba stat block:
3 Life 0 Speed(Deku Baba is rooted to the spot summoned *cannot be cast underwater) 2 Mass 0 Armor
Deku Baba has one attack

[Bite] Melee Range 3k2 1 Life Dmg


Thoughts?

>>15174779
what's wrong with the way it's explained?

>>15174818
what exactly do you mean when you say 1 Life dmg? 1 full heart? cause that's actually pretty high

>>15174815
in LttP you could stop without running into something. all you had to do was change direction. and I think 2 actions to charge is sufficient rather than 2 turns.

Ah, this thread survives.

>>15174818
I like this system for summoning, but are creatures keyed to specific races? Like, only Gorons could summon dodongos; only Shiekah can summon redeads? Race prerequisites seem a little weird to me, and as I said a couple threads ago, a potential beta-tester is requesting a Twili sage who summons Wallmasters, for maximum trolling (Just pick enemies up and drop 'em in front of the party tank, or into a pit of lava or some shit)

>>15174306
>Perhaps just add in a line about Heavy weapons needing a turn to be raised again afterwards, as if you'd done a normal attack with them.
Heavy weapons currently take 1 action to attack with, like every other weapon, but then need a SECOND action to bring it to bear again.

>>15174755
see >>15174765

>>15173668
Kokiri have to live with Mido. I don't think it's POSSIBLE for them to run out of patience.

>>15174815
And now I want to play a Pegasus Bootan' swordsman.

>>15174818
I'm not really sure that Dekus should be summonable, but still.
They should probably just use the same stats that they would have if they were wild though.
And I hope you don't have a Deku in your party, 'cause then it'll be awkward.

>>15175319
xky
roll xd6
choose the y highest to keep

>>15175096
>Heavy weapons... need a SECOND action to bring to bear again.

This shit looks legit... Me and some friends were talking about making a LoZ RPG using FUDGE/FATE, but this looks unique. I've never heard of or used a "Keep system", so how does it usually play out? What's the probability and statistics? Does it make it feel like the vidja game? Also, considering the vidja games are single player adventure, how different will it be/feel as a RPG?

>>15170983

Dungeon design work has been going on here: http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Legend_of_Zelda_RPG/GM_Resources

Stuff like the Dungeon Architectures (SO needs renaming) and Dungeon Themes sections tells you what sort of enemies, obstacles and puzzles should be in your dungeon to make it feel right (well, the Dungeon Architectures bit doesn't do that yet, but it's scheduled), but beyond that it's currently freeform.

What I've currently got puzzle-wise needs the tag system and all the tags in it to work well, although stuff like sliding block puzzles is more of a square grid deal.
___

>>15174770
>>15174787

Why you no use existing tags? Why you stat things I no make all tags for yet, make me look bad?
___

I should've archived the previous thread when I noticed no-one else had done it... Sorry.

>>15175098
Sorry, I should've premised my post in this new thread. I'm designing a campaign around the 7years that Link was sealed in the Temple of Light in OOT.

Allowable Races
Goron
Hylian
Sheikah
Kokiri
Zora

>>15175033
And this is why I asked for feedback, thanks. Whats a balanced amount for an entry level spell? 1/2 Heart? 1/4?

>>15175802
1/2 heart is what a sword does. And if the kokiri has a sword, then that would mean that you just doubled his damage per turn.
So maybe give it a 3k2 1/2H Range 10 attack?
Oh, and you need to add in Defense (active and passive).

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure that using the races as classes is that good an idea. I mean, the system was trying to move away from classes and stuff.
Sorry, it just irks me for some reason.

>Yakuchu ingedion
Yakuza? In Gedion? It can't be true!

>>15175613
probably like the games?
As in, the other race guys tell you that they will defeat the evil monster, then go ahead and leave you with the search of the master key (even though they already have it) and get eaten, until the hylian and/or kokiri of the group goes and brings the plot item necessary to really kill that thing

>>15175096
>>15174818

You are right that having some summons be race specific, as summons could be just another form of magic someone can take up as a Tech, Song, Magic Spell, or what have you. However, it seems like it would be more easy for a Deku Mage to summon DekuBabas, so while the spells can be universal we can have special circumstances where certain races can summon certain monsters much more easily. Like maybe we can make a Tech where if someone wants to summon they can summon Minor Threat enemies, and the max the game will allow is Moderate Threats to be summoned so we don't have Wallmasters all over the place.

Should there be a thing for familiars?

>Hey, Listen!

>>15176253

>Ey Fryman! Friggin Listen ta me!

Maybe, because Kokiri's can't really function without a fairy.

>>15176253
The system for familiars could probably be expanded into a system for controlling summons as well.
I'm not too familiar with how Familiars work in other games though. Any suggestions?

>>15176314

I don't see why we can just have it that you use up one of your actions for the actions of your familiar. And then later down the road have a Tech that allows the Familiar to have it's own move pool rather then take up one of your actions.

>>15176340
I'm...not entirely sure how I feel about that.
I mean, on one hand, it's pretty balanced.
On the other hand, an owl, for example, should be able to attack on it's own while it's owner attacks.
And sure, Navi was irritating. But getting the enemies weakness from her never stopped you from moving/attacking.
I guess it's just a case of what's balanced and what's more true to the games.

>>15176392
Actually, what is there for basis for Familiars in zelda?
Sure there's the fairies with the Kokiri, but that's almost definitely race-exclusive. (And a gift from the Deku Tree, no less.)
Other stuff would probably fit better with a pet/ally framework, like the monkeys in TP, dogs and stuff.
Or maybe I'm jut overthinking this.

If I might make a suggestion:
since the roll-and-keep system generally uses the XkY format, wouldn't it be a bit more helpful to switch the positions of the "roll" and "virtue" columns under the Skills section of the character sheet?

Summons are balanced by having MP regen become 0 as long as any summons are active.

Got a ranged Summon, melee summon (albeit he's stuck in place), I even made stats for the fairy. Fairies can be summoned/dismissed for free, take no damage from physical and double from magical, and provide a +2 passive bonus to dungeon search checks and enemy weakness checks.

>>15176526
Probably. Try to ask Temporary Combat Namefag whenever he appears. I'm pretty sure he's the one who made the prettied-up, non-color version of the character sheet.

Actually, does anyone have that version of the character sheet? The old thread 404'd and EasyModo doesn't save images.

>>15176583

There's a pretty non-colour version on the wiki page. That might be the one you're thinking of.
___

Thinking about Navi (and by extension how awesome Wind Waker's Link was for not needing a shitty Fairy to aim for him) made me think a "Focused" state might be useful, where you circle-strafe around the selected target and can't directly attack anyone else, but certain attacks can only be used on a Focused target.

>>15176722
Mmmh... personally focus sounds too "Video game on paper" as opposed to "RPG". It could work, I'm just can't see solid mechanics behind it.

>>15176722
Thanks. I'd been looking for that.

>>15176722
Finally got it done, with Attribute icons and dots for hearts.

And we're still going with Spiritual, before somebody starts another debate over it.

>>15176818
Good. "Emotional" sounded almost as bad as when we were using "Social".

>>15176818
Hey, there was some version where hey took some of the official zelda artwork for those stuff.
The Book of Mudora, for instance. Maybe you could steal the art from zeldawiki and shrink/grayscale it for the attributes?

>>15177176
I'm the one who made that, and I have the icons saved on my laptop.
I'm not on my laptop right now, but I do have it with me (the place I'm at doesn't have wifi, I'm using a different computer with a wired connection) so if you give me a minute I can transfer the icons to a flash drive and post them.

>>15177176
>>15177213
Here we go. Starting with the Master Sword, for Physical...

>>15177294
...and the Book of Mudora for Mental...

>>15177302
...and finally, the Ocarina of Time for Spiritual.

(Which, incidentally, I'm glad we're keeping as Spiritual. Confusion aside, it just sounds best, and the confusion is easy enough to clear up that I don't think it really needs changing.)

>>15177176
I'm wary of stealing art to begin with (I think the final version should use custom-made icons, but I'm no graphic design artist.)

For now, here are somewhat nicer Minish Cap sprites. I can make a colorized version too, but I don't want to steal the thunder of whoever did the other one.

>>15176340
This works well for things other than a Kokiri's fairy. Their fairy, as a racial feature, should be easier to use. Other than that, however, I think this works fine.

We have to consider that the rules will be an abstraction of what is actually happening, created in order to balance and facilitate gameplay. While it might not make a lot of sense for your owl/wolf/horse/whatever to hold still while you fight and need your direction to participate in combat, it is really one of the only good ways to balance those who have companions with those who do not. And, of course, there can be techniques to improve how such pets/familiars/minions/companions work, if someone wants to invest that much xp into it.

>>15176818
>>15177089
A discussion for another time, for sure.

>>15174787
>>15174770
Is it just me, or are the ranges on these pathetically short? 10 meters is not that terribly far...

30 or 40 meters strikes me as more reasonable for the boomerang, and Wikipedia states the typical range of a sport boomerang as 20 to 40 meters, so that would definitely be more realistic.

As for the grappling hook, 15 to 20 meters sounds a bit more reasonable to me.

>>15177344
I'd love to see a sailor character with a seagull companion (named Marin), but maybe we should hold off on that and summoning magic until we figure out what is wrong with dice pools (or what isn't wrong with them.)

>>15177393
I thought it'd be better to be safe than sorry. I'll probably increase the grappling hook from 10 to 15, and the magic boomerang from 10 to 15-20.

All these techniques and items are going to need a lot of revision. I'm kind of wary about altering rolled and kept pools too much outside of your characters Attributes, Skills and Virtues, so I'm opposed to items that do only that.

There are exceptions, for items like the Power Bracelet that could give +2k1 for lifting and throwing objects, since there's no skill for it.

...actually, that would fall under Ranged/Power, wouldn't it. Darn.

>erandsh companion
Captcha wants to flesh out what faries do for Kokiri.

>>15177865
I'd say Ranged/Power would only apply specifically to the act of throwing the lifted object with the intent to hit a specific target. The actual act of lifting the object in the first place (which is what the power bracelet really helps with) would just be a plain Physical/Power test. Helps your strength, not your aim.

And speaking of skill-less and non-opposed checks, I came up with a system/guidelines for how to deal with those.

Looking at the way we have Virtues currently set up, the most evenly a non-Hylian PC can spread their Virtue points is 3-2-2, and the most specialized is 4-2-1. Since PCs are overall slightly above-average compared to the general populace, we can therefore describe the Virtue ranks as follows:
>1 = below average
>2 = average
>3 = above average
>4 = phenomenal
>5+ = legendary

Based on this, we can use the success-count requirement for an unopposed test as a measure of the magnitude of the task, and the target number for successes as a measure of difficulty within that level of magnitude.

Tasks requiring only 1 success are things that even someone with below-average ability could accomplish, given a little luck. Tasks that are more difficult, but still within the realm of what's possible for an average person take 2 successes. Tasks that are simply beyond the reach of ordinary capabilities take 3 or more successes, with 4+ reserved for only the most tremendously difficult feats. Thus, a fair majority of unopposed checks will require only 1 or 2 successes, with difficulty primarily differentiated by the number you need to roll to get a success.

Thoughts?

>>15178635
Sounds fair to me. Should successes count as squares for movement-related tasks such as pushing blocks or jumping? It could require 1 success to push a standard (1m) dungeon block 1 meter, but one of those larger blocks might require 2 successes for the same amount of movement. Someone who gets 4 successes could push that large block 2 spaces with one action.

Jumping (which might be Acrobatics/Courage or just an ability roll) might require 1 success to clear a 1 meter gap, 2 successes for 2 meters, and so on. (Jumping should be a part of a movement action instead of having to move up to a hole, end your action, and then take another action to jump it.)

>>15178921
That doesn't sound like a bad way to do it, though I don't think I'd go with those distances for jumping. Like with the grappling hook and boomerang earlier, it's a bit on the short side. A 1-meter gap is something a full-grown adult can simply step over without difficulty, and it would be a trivial hop for a child -- in either case, not something you'd need a check for.

>>15179231
I've been using the tiles from the 2D games as measurements, maybe that's a bad idea.

>>15179260
The 2d games aren't exactly to scale, so yeah, probably not a great idea.

>>15179304
Well then, should we change the size of one space or the range of the effects?

If we use the first option, we could rip from D&D and make them 5 foot spaces, or make them 2 meters. even

>>15179514
I think 1 meter squares is fine, we just need to make sure to keep that in mind when making rules for weapons and movement and such. Despite being an American, I rather like using metric, but 2-meter squares is a bit large, and 1-meter squares, while perhaps a little bit cramped compared to D&D's 5-foot squares, are still big enough to allow for sidestepping and such in combat.

Speaking of movement, if we're using 1-meter squares and 6-second turns, the base movement speed for a Hylian should probably be 8 squares, with speeds for other races adjusted accordingly. The average human walking speed is roughly 5 kph, which would get you just about 8 meters in 6 sec.

>>15179885
it sounds like we were going to go with 8 movement in the beginning, but it got dropped down to 6. We'll see what works better when we get to grid-based combat (which might be able to be kept seperate from the core rules if not everybody wants it.)

I thought meters was a good idea because it seemed to fit the tiles from the Gameboy games, and it would be fun for GMs to make maps using the tilesets from those games if they wanted to.

>>15180155
Whoops, forgot my image.

Forgive me if I've overlooked something, but is there a mechanic for charging or running in place? Because 6 meters seems a little slow.

>>15180218
>mechanic for charging or running in place
>running in place

That...seems like a very silly thing to have mechanics for.

Charging, there's nothing yet, but it's certainly something we can work on.
Also, I think we're probably going to change the baseline move speed from 6 to 8 meters.

>>15180284
Derp, it just hit me as I hit submit that you meant "is there a mechanic 'in place' for 'running'", not "is there a mechanic for 'running in place'".

Running is also something we can work on, yes.

>>15180284
Clause confusion. Read that sentence as "Are there mechanics in place for charging or running?".

You know, read it in a way that doesn't make you and the original speaker seem a little slow.

this is your BBEG

>>15180297
>>15180299
Derp, i realized how silly that sentence sounded as soon as i posted it. In any case, running shouldn't be too difficult to figure out. Movement x3 or movement x4 maybe?

the wiki still says "social" instead of "spiritual" btw

>>15180386
Nothing's stopping you from changing it.

>>15180218
There isn't, and there needs to be. A lot of monsters depend on it.

Charge
Double action
Charge up to double (too much?) your movement in a straight line
>(Limit it to horizontal, veritical, or diagonal, or just let them pick a target and run towards it?)
If you reach a space in your path occupied by an object or enemy, make a Physical Power check
>(or just Melee Power?)
against the target.
Success: 1/4H damage, push 1 space out of your path. You continue charging.
>(needs adjusting, what if people want to make a melee weapon attack? or what if they want to carry a guy with their charge into a wall, a la L4D2?)
If you fail to hit with your attack, or if the target is not pushed, your movement ends.

Needs work, what issues are immediately apparent?

>>15180386

Done fixed it bro.

>>15179231
>>15178921
We could have a base distance that can be jumped based on size, with additional distance covered by number of successes on a check.

>>15180496
I would think that movement would be based on movement, not size, since very big things that are also fast can obviously jump farther.

Jumping could work where you can only jump as far as you have movement. So if your movement is 8, you move 2 spaces and are at the edge of a 2-space pit, you can make a jump check (or acrobatic/courage whatever it will be). As you jump over squares they use up movement. You use 2 spaces to clear the pit, and then 1 more space when you land on the opposite side.

I'm basically taking what I know about movement rules from D&D 4e, so if people know a better way, suggestions are welcome.

>>15177325
>I can make a colorized version too, but I don't want to steal the thunder of whoever did the other one.
go for it. yours looks better anyway
you have my permission to steal my thunder

>>15180887

Hmm how about this, its a basic acrobatics check and the whole 4e bit like TCN said, but I do believe Mass should be implemented somehow. How about this lets pretend 5 Mass is the middleground for weight, so its like a weight of 0.

So it would be like this

>0-4 = Every Even = + X Bonus to Acrobatics.
>5 = No Bonus
>6-10 = Every Even = - X Penalty to Acrobatics.

So lets say someone made a jump from one end to the other with a mass of 4, so they would get a +1 to their X in the die roll.

4-3=+1, 2-1=+2, 0=+3.

And in the opposite side of the coin

6-7=-1, 8-9=-2, 10=-3

>>15181225
i think we've already established 4 Mass as the middle ground. Basing jumping off of Movement does implement Mass because Movement is derived from Mass. I think Savage Worlds handles jumping pretty well. If only I could remember how they do it so I could post it... and I don't have book on me either.

>>15176155
>Honestly, I'm not entirely sure that using the races as classes is that good an idea. I mean, the system was trying to move away from classes and stuff.
Sorry, it just irks me for some reason.
agreed times infinity

>>15181324
>>15181225

Heres a small little illustration how I saw it work, your welcome to take it or leave it, just a suggestion.

>>15181225
>>15181518
I'm not understanding your examples in the context of the dice system
>4-3=+1, 2-1=+2, 0=+3
what these numbers mean?

>>15181682

Mass = + Bonus to X in Acrobatics Roll
Example - A player had a Mass of 2, they get a plus 2 to their X in the Acrobatics Roll

Mass = - Penalty to X in Acrobatics Roll
Example - A player had a Mass of 10 they get a - 3 to their X in the Acrobatics roll.

This way it would give the players sort of a reason not to over dress themselves in fuck all armor unless they had a very good reason for it.

>>15181518
I don't think the racial templates are too restrictive. Its still entirely possible to play a Goron archer, or a heavy zora fighter that wears a lot of armor.

>>15181518
if each square is one meter, thats a really long jump

>>15181716
based on your illustration I think I finally managed to piece together that "x" is kept dice, but where is that 6 coming from? are you adding up the rolls? because that's not how any other roll in the system works.

>>15181774

Oh herp, forgot we're running on meters not squares.

>>15181716
This brings to mind the idea of over-encumbrance as well: Should certain armor or amounts of items increase mass/lower speed? It would encourage players to travel light, for certain, and also make every tool found that much more important.

>>15181865
yes, some armor and items will increase mass and thus lower speed.

>TRIFORCE OF COURAGE ON THE LEFT, NOT THE RIGHT!

http://www.zeldawiki.org/File:Triforce_WW.png

GET IT RIGHT!

>>15181956
yes, I realized this after the fact. the other sheet that is being generally accepted as official has them in the correct position

>>15182002
But did you realize...

Nah, obviously not.

... so, uh... what's this about a D20 version already existing? can I get sum of that goin' on here?

>>15181865
Mass of armor affects speed.

Not sure if regular items do, since a hyperspace inventory never stopped Link.

>>15182036
Trust us. You /realy/ don't want that.
It would just make you sad.

>>15182036
The D20 version, like most half assed D20 versions, is "how to take some feats to be similar to link" and pretty much ends there.

>>15182055
I take it as a challenge. if anything, it'll show me what not to do. I was watching these threads sort of, since I've had an idea like this incubating in my head for years, but for some reason every time one of these threads showed up, I drew blanks when it came time to offer contributions... -_-;;

>>15182073
I kind of intended to review this and that and see if I can't make a D20/PF adaptation that doesn't suck camel-cock...

>>15182073
I was all excited when I first found the D20 Zelda game. and then I looked at the pdf, and my head started to hurt... because it was ugly. the wall of text formatting. the same background used on every page, clashing with the wall of text making it difficult to read. so poorly written. oh so poorly written. you don't want to subject yourself to that.

>>15182073
https://rapidshare.com/files/2338064031/Zelda_d20.pdf
prepare your anus

>>15182161
guess I'll just get off my ass, roll up my sleeves, and make a thread to make /tg/ do it like OP did, then.

>>15181225
Mass affects your speed so it limits how far you can jump. Is that enough?

I guess I should try and write up some action descriptions.

Move
Single Action
No check
You can move a number of spaces equal to your speed.
>is it alright if we call it speed? I keep wanting to say "Move your movement" when writing action descriptions and it sounds wierd.

Double Move
Double Action
No check
You can move a number of spaces equal to twice your speed.

Climb
Part of a Move or Double Move Action
Physical/Power (?)
Each Success: climb 2 spaces. You cannot exceed your remaining movement while climbing.
Special: While climbing a ladder or other nonchallenging surface, you can climb a number of spaces equal to half your speed without a check.

Jump
Part of a Move, Double Move, or Charge Action
Acrobatics/Courage
Each Success: Jump 2 spaces. You cannot exceed your remaining movement while jumping.

>>15182203
man, wtf is up with rapidshare?

when did they get these chump-ass cartoon characters and increase wait times to 5 fucking minutes?

oh well, beggars can't be choosers, I suppose...

aaaaa

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

>>15182203
... man, you guys weren't kiddin'...

>>15182324
Allow me to continue that sentiment.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

>the timpler
TO THE TIMPLER WITH THIS ABOMINATION!

>>15182353
>>15182324
AAAAAAAAAAAAA! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! I'M WINNING! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

There's a better version here, if anyone actually wants it.
I had this pdf ages ago, apparently I forgot how bad it was.

This is why we need actual drawfags for when we get a pdf together.

Whoops, forgot my link.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/da.vane/ZeldaRPGSourcebook.zip

The only good artwork in it is stolen official art, which has been compressed to hell and back.

>>15181518
I like your art. Mind sharing your DA or otherwise account?

>the tobliti
Gonna use this for a new species I'm developing, brb.

>>15182224
I'm fine with most of this, but it seems like you could jump a pretty long way with that.

Each success could count as one square (meter) of distance, to a max of your remaining movement. It's simple, and allows for truly heroic leaps, but not super early on.

>>15182224
We could steal from Savage Worlds and call it Pace.
Double Move should be called running.
Jumping should probably just be a Physical Power roll with some kind of bonus for a running start.

>>15183006
agreed with this. The world long jump record is like nine meters. That would be possible for characters with high power and physical, or maxed out acrobatics and a low mass, but it shouldnt be possible for a starting power-level character.

>>15183116
Thinking about it more, I don't actually think mass/speed ratio should be factored into jumping. A larger body can put more force behind a jump and has a longer stride in general, but more weight to move. A smaller body has little weight, but also can't put too much force behind their leaps. Keep in mind we are talking exclusively about humanoids here. A Deku would have to jump nearly twice his own height to clear a gap that a Goron would logically be able to easily hop over. Given weights, that might well be possible, of course, but the Deku wouldn't get much farther without nearly flying.

All things considered, Mass/Speed shouldn't figure into jumping distances.

>>15183469
speed as in your speed rating, no, but I think moving a certain minimum distance before jumping should give you a bonus.
also on climbing I think it should be half pace even if it's an easy climb. more difficult climbs would require a roll to determine how many increments you move each turn, and for relatively easy climbs you should have to roll to go faster than half pace and have a chance of losing your shit and falling

>>15183509
Ah, easier jumps with a running start? That's pretty standard for most PnP RPGs, so I would certainly hope we'd include that.

How about, automatic distance on the jump equal to 1/4 the distance of the running start beforehand, to a max based on Physical?

>>15183530
So for defense you can choose to use |Acrobatics| to dodge out of the way or block with the |Shield| skill. What about defending with a |Melee| roll to represent blocks and parries with your melee weapon(s)?

>>15183530
did mean to link to you here >>15183712
just used it for a quick replay and forgot to delete the quote before I hit submit

>>15183719
did not* mean to

>>15183712
I think we were changing |Shield| to |Guard|. That would include Parries as well as shields.
Or catching a blade with your hand, if that's your thing.
And then Gerudo get a natural rank in it or something.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/15170866
Archive so this thread doesn't end up as the previous one.
It updates every two hours, so it should catch everything until 404. Unless /tg/ gets a sudden adrenaline rush, I think we're safe.

>Judge frovenic
Yes sir, will judge them frovenically.

>>15183530
Hopefully we can make some of the mechanics as simple as possible. Running jumps are more realistic, but they might not be nescesary.

I made a little picture with what I think the tile sizes could be, and what was meant buy being able to jump 2 meters. The last space of your jump is your landing.

This thread is still here?

Bumping!

>>15183712
That could be a technique that allowed you to Guard with your Melee skill instead of the Guard skill.

>>15185176
Did you use maptool to make this?

>>15185176
that makes a whole lot of sense.

I kind of agree about not needing running jumps. In the games a running start never seemed to help, Link just had a set distance he could jump.

Jump
Part of a Move, Double Move, or Charge Action
Acrobatics/Courage
Each Success: Jump 1 space. You use another space of movement to move into the square you land in. You cannot exceed your remaining movement while jumping.

With this, you would jump 1+x spaces, where x is your successes. Does this work better?

>you're magespor

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnv8VwGjfs0

>>15187352
...I think we're going to need a supplement soon.

>>15186859
that works much better. That way someone could conceivably jump very large distances, but they'd need to have the skill points for it.

>>15184573
>>15183712
I thought |shield| would stay shield, and parrying would be an active defense option using the |melee| skill that you'd need to buy a technique to access. These were posted in the last thread:

Parry
Prereq: Melee 2
1 action
You've mastered the art of using your weapon to deflect incoming blows.
You may take an action to ready an active defense using your |melee| skill (possibly required to be Wisdom based?) when wielding an appropriate weapon.
>Possible edit for balance: Subtract 1 rolled die for parry defense using the basic Parry tech, and make an Improved Parry tech that negates this subtraction.

Riposte
Prereq: Melee 4, Parry
Free action
You've learned to use your parries to open gaps in your enemy's defenses, and exploit those gaps with lightning speed.
When using a Parry defense, you may choose to subtract one {additional} die from your rolled pool. If you do, deal damage to the opponent for each success on that Parry defense roll, just as you would if you were attacking.

>>15188750
I like that. Parrying isn't something Link can do in the games, but adding it as a technique makes a alot more sense than putting in an additional skill for it.

>>15187352
Pic oh-so-very related...if only I actually had money...
Or a Wii to play it on, for that matter...I need to quit being such a poorfag...

>>15186859
>With this, you would jump 1+x spaces, where x is your successes. Does this work better?
That sounds good, though I'm not seeing the 1 free space in the actual mechanical description you posted.

Also, as for climbing here >>15182224, I think it should probably be 1 space per success, and each space costs two "points" of movement. Climbing was always painfully slow in the video games, and it makes sense from a real-world perspective too.
As for what sort of check it should be, Power makes sense in that you need enough strength to haul yourself up, but climbing also requires a certain degree of coordination and finesse (finding appropriate hand/footholds and such), and it definitely falls under "adventurous derring-do", so I think it would go better under Physical Courage.

I have some thoughts on charging as well, but I think I'll have to put that in another post.

>>15188750

I'm all for this too. I assume that you also defend against the enemy as well as do damage?

I made up some quick mount rules, hopefully they work.

When mounted,
-You and your mount are considered to be occupying the same space, although you remain seperate targets.
-When your mount moves, you move with it.
-You and your mount share the same set of actions (2 between you and the mount)
-You must make a Spiritual Courage check (moderate difficulty) every time you attempt to control your mount. If you fail, the GM determines your mount's action.
-You subtract your mass from your mount's speed.


Natural Rider
Ability
Requirements: Spiritual 3, Courage 3
XP Cost: (low ?)
You can control your mount's actions without making checks.

Also, should we distinguish between Techniques and Abilities, or just have Passive Techniques and Active Techniques?

Abilitiy sounds apropriate for general perks or feats, while Technique sounds appropriate for special moves or actions

>>15188986 cont'd
So, my thoughts on charging are:

Charge
Double action
Move up to twice your speed in a straight line, but you must move at least 2 spaces. If you encounter a creature in the path of your charge, make a modified Physical Power check, adding 1k1 to your roll. The opponent may choose to oppose with either Physical Power or Physical Wisdom. For each success you score, you push the opponent back 1 meter and deal 1/4h of damage. If you score more total successes than the opponent, you may instead choose to push the opponent 1 square out of your path and continue your charge. In this case, the opponent takes no damage, but is knocked prone if you scored at least two more successes than he did.

Those who want to make a charging attack can learn the following technique:

Charge Attack
Prereq: Melee 1 -or- Heavy 1
Double action (modifies the charge action)
Rather than simply pushing your opponent, you use the momentum of your charge to press the attack.
When making a charge, you may choose to replace the usual opposed Physical Power check with a melee attack roll. If your melee attack would normally use Wisdom, it uses Courage for this attack roll instead (though attacks that normally use Power or Courage are unchanged). Charge attacks made using a |heavy| weapon still require that you use an action to ready your weapon before using it again, just as a normal attack does.
>Do we want to have a bonus for attacking on a charge? +1 to your rolled pool on the attack, or +1/4h to total damage if it hits, or something?

Certain weapons, such as lances, could be noted as dealing bonus damage when used in a charge. This damage would apply both for normal charges (increasing the damage per success) and for charge attacks (increasing the damage increment).

>>15188998
>I'm all for this too. I assume that you also defend against the enemy as well as do damage?

That was the intent for Riposte, yes. I suppose that could be made a bit clearer, we should keep that in mind for the final product.

Those rules for mounts look like a pretty good start. They'll probably need expansion as we flesh out the rest of the system more, but for now they seem pretty good. The one thing I might want to tweak right now would be the prereqs for Natural Rider; I think it might work better with 2 as the Spiritual requirement, and plan on making the XP cost a bit higher to compensate.

>>15189210
Makes sense, 2 it will be. 3 Courage is a decent requirement though.

Should we allow players to try and mount enemies? In order to attack a weak point on their backs or run them into a wall? It might require a Physical Power check to stay on instead.

>>15190282
Wouldn't that just fall under whatever grapple rules we end up with?

>>15190721
It could, but I'm afraid of introducing grapple rules at all.

>>15190769
Well between occasionally riding on enemies and goron sumo, it seems like they have a place.

>>15191539
...That's a really good idea.
What if we just based it on Twilight Princess' sumo mechanics?

Physical Courage: Slap/Strong escape Physical Wisdom: Dodge/Agile Escape
Physical Power: Tackle/Grab

Thoughts?

>>15191757
Simple and intuitive...sounds good to me!

>>15185517
>>15188750
being able to parry with your weapon is part of being skilled in melee. it shouldn't require buying a technique. no one learns how to fight with a sword and only learns to attack and not defend...
>>15188844
...except Link apparently, but we're not trying to make a pnp simulation of the video games. no additional skills is necessary. I said use |Melee|, which is already a skill.

>>15191757
That's actually neat. I like it.

The only problem with using that method for grappling, is that enemies need to have the same attributes as players to make it work.

Maybe they can use their attack roll to grab, and either passive or active defense to escape (depending on which makes more sense for the monster: a Lizalfos might use active defense for an agile escape while a moblin might use his active defense as a strong escape)

>>15193948
Well, there's no time like the present to try to figure out what we'll do about this.

>>15193948
>>15194451
how about the roll and keep system only applies to PC's and important NPC's and your average run of the mill NPC's just get fixed Physical, Mental, and Spiritual attributes and just roll that as their dice pool?

>>15194633
The roll & keep system is pretty important in modeling accuracy. Monsters and most NPCS will just have listed rolls and not a bunch of attributes.

The difficulty I'm having is making the potential rules for grappling work for monsters who don't have those attributes.

>>15192717
Skill ranks alone don't represent the entirety of your training and ability with a skill, techniques are important there too. Techniques aren't just the specialized things that it takes focused additional training to learn; the more basic ones are things that, yes, realistically speaking, you probably would pick up in your basic training with a skill. In reality, anyone who can use a sword should be able to make a jump attack, but that's a technique in our system. In reality, anyone who's practiced with a shield shouldn't have any trouble using it to bash the opponent, but we have a technique for that. Our goal isn't to make a perfect simulation of reality; our goal is to make a streamlined and balanced system. Making parry a basic combat option on par with dodging and shields for active defense adds one more element of complexity to the core combat mechanics (something we'd like to avoid as much as possible), and throws off the balance of the system. Why bother sinking points into another skill if |melee| has everything you need? At that point, shields become purely a flavor choice (and one that punishes the player for choosing it, to boot) -- anyone trying to min/max for combat would just sink all their points into |melee| without thinking twice. Hell, even with Parry as a technique, it still stands to be preferable to ranking up in |shield| or |acrobatics| from an optimization perspective. We definitely don't want to make that choice even easier for munchkins.

If it bothers you that much, you can fluff it as saying that basic parrying is part of your passive defense, but to get really good at it (ie, good enough that parrying is just as effective as a shield) you need to focus on parrying specifically.

Good work everyone, have some rupees.

Wow /tg/ can't wait to role Subrosian.

http://www.zeldawiki.org/Subrosian

>>15195913
yeah, im a little wary of letting Parry become overpowered too. The shield is a big part of the games, and magic shields seem to be a huge part of the universe. I think we should keep it as a technique, and probably make it a relatively high level one at that.

Grapple
Single Action
Physical/Power vs. enemy's defense
>2 Successes:You grab the target. The target remains grabbed until you release it (free action) or it successfully escapes.
Requirement: You must have a hand free.

Escape
Single Action (Must be grabbed)
Physical/Courage OR Physical/Wisdom vs. Grabbing enemy's Physical/Power
>2 Successes:You escape your target's grab.
-Courage: You push the target one space away from you.
-Wisdom: You move one space.

>Enemies without attributes can use their attack rolls to Grab and either of their defense rolls to escape. (the gm should decide whether it's an agile or strong escape, depending on the creature.)

>>15198896
I like that. How does the hookshot fit into those grappling rules though?

>>15198920
The hookshot and other grabbing tools would be able Grab without the user making a Grapple action. Grappling is specifically for when a creature wants to bodily hold another creature.

"Grabbed" should be a condition.

>>15199002
that makes a lot of sense. What about the grappling hook? Since its muscle-powered it should have some sort of physical component.

>>15199002
Actually, the grappling hook and hookshoot don't grab or restrain enemies, they just pull things back. Strike that last part.

If there are items that do, that, though, then they can use it.

>>15199119
If that's the case, then it'll probably just use those rules as normal.

>>15185176
I agree with this. It's simple, not too far at low skill, allows easy hops of small gaps, can still be epic distance at high skill/ability. PRINT IT!

>>15197452
What sort of abilities do they have? I've never played Seasons.

>>15197452
If we have Subrosans, should we have Tokay as well? Neither of them seemed very adventurous... and I don't want this project to end up like that Zelda d20 thing.

>>15202598
Immunity to Lava, always wear cloaks so we only ever see the eyes, have a HUGE hard on for Bazaars as in trading shit for other shit, and they use meteorite peices as money. Rocks instead of rupees, for example.

Thier land is underground and filled with volcanos. They're actually pretty neat. Also dance instructor! FUCK NOW I WANT TO MAKE A COURAGE/TOOL FOCUSED DANCE INSTRUCTOR SUBROSIAN TROLLAN THE UPPER WORLD FOR SWEET LOOT.

And I think some Subrosians would enjoy adventuring, if only to gett phat loot to sell to the item-hungry people back home. Megameteoritepeices!

should we have a riding skill or should everyone be able to ride horses and flying bird equally well

>>15204072
And actually I beleive I could set Subrosians up with some decent race-related stuff.

-1 damage from fire comes to mind immediately, maybe even +1 damage/success/whatever is in line with other races when dealing damage from fire based sources. Add some stuff about finding treasures (even just useless crap like a single rupee or a potion when you REALLY need it) as"upgradeable" things (buy techs, increase racial bonus!) if other races have them.

>>15204135
giant birds*
obviously they will be flying

>>15204135
Maybe techniques you can buy. Though that does imply a skill with which the Techniques will be using. What are our existing skills? I know an anon posted mount related stuff in a thread.

>>15204135
See
>>15188998

>>15204169
Invalidated! That's good to know, though, because playing a Knight-character atop an armored cassowary-alike would be hilarious.

"Want misdeeds? TOO BAD. HERE LANCE. FUCK YOU."

>>15204366
Speaking of lances, I should repost the weapons list from 2 threads ago.

Melee/Courage:
Sword (Hero's Sword, Scimatar, Rapier, etc)----1/2
Claws----1/2
Brawl----1/4----Extra Keep Die
Lance----3/4----Two-Handed, charging

Melee/Wisdom:
Improvised (Canes & Tomes, Deku sticks)----1/4
Dagger----1/4----Extra Roll Die
Staff----1/2----Two-Handed
Longspear----1/2----Two-Handed, Reach

Melee/Power
Axe----3/4
Mace (hammer, pick)----3/4
Halberd----3/4----Two-Handed, Reach

* * *
Heavy/Power
Great Sword (Biggoron's Sword)----1+1/2----Heavy
Great Axe----2----Heavy, Two Handed
Great Mace (Megaton Hammer)---1+1/2----Heavy
Ball and Chain----1+1/2----Heavy, Two-Handed Reach

* * *
Ranged/Courage
Slingshot----1/4----Range 10
Boomerang----1/4----Range 10, Returning, Stun
Hookshot (clawshot)----1/4----Range 10, Pull
Longshot----1/4----Range 20, Pull

Ranged/Wisdom
Bow----1/2----Range 20
Crossbow---1/2----Range 20
Seed Shooter----1/4----Range 10
Needle----1/4----Thrown 5
Deku Nut----0----Thrown 5, Area 1, Stun

Ranged/Power
Bomb----1----Thrown 5, Explosive, Area 1
Bombchu----1----Thrown 5, Explosive, Area 1

Bump for contunuity

>>15204737
I think bombs should be 1+1/2 hearts instead of just 1. Maybe not 2.

>ngisted candles
I'll be using Jabu Jabu in my game.

Bumping.

I noticed this happening alot. You guys don't know how to get a thread archived, do you?

>>15208244
see
>>15184672

I think it's more that nobody wants to do it themselves.
Or just forget.

To make alternat movement easier, what if things like swimming, balancing, crawling and climbing just let you move at half your normal speed without a check? Players might also be able to jump small, 1 space gaps without making a jump check.

Checks could be required to keep your balance during combat, climb a surface without vines or mesh, or struggle against an environmental effect, but wouldn't be needed for regular exploration.

Thoughts? I'm willing to hammer out mechanical details for movement, but it's hard to tell if they're good choices without feedback.

>>15208848
Yeah, you should definitely keep the rolling to a minimum.
Perhaps have a high level feat/racial ability that lets you go at full speed all the time?

>>15208893
A very high level feat, perhaps one for each type of movement. Since some monsters have things like a flight speed, jumping speed and swim speed, the ability would grant them one of those.

Heck, I can see Rolling being a kind of movement. A regular human doesn't have a roll speed, so they would roll forward just 4 meters (assuming their movement is 8.) But one of the Goron's racial features could be having a natural roll speed, perhaps of 8 (2 higher than their normal speed.)

Is a base movement speed of 8 too big? It might be for people who are drawing maps on a grid. Originally it was 6, but moving 6 meters in 6 seconds seems kind of slow.

>>15209125
A meter a second for a GORON.
They should be really fast at rolling, actually.

Also, link was faster when rolling than running.
And faster when walking backwards than forwards, but that's another issue.

>>15209165
Yeah, he was faster at rolling than running, but he can't roll forever. I can see a roll being like a jump, it takes you a short distance in one direction and helps you dodge attacks, like rolling down a dart-filled corridor. Gorons, and other creatures with a roll speed, could be the exception; being able to turn while rolling.

The issue with using 8 spaces as a movement speed is that it forces GMs to make very big rooms. 6 spaces is what D&D 4e uses for it's baseline, but their squares are 5 feet, not a meter.

In my opinion, I think 6 spaces per move is the easiest solution, but might be more realistic if we change the size of the space to 5 feet or maybe 1.5 meters.

>>15209226
>or maybe 1.5 meters
It's probably best to avoid fractions in units of movement. If you're going to bump it up, then maybe 2 meters?

>>15209226
...Speaking of movement speed and such!
Isn't it impossible to attack the same guy twice if there's knockback?

Also, perhaps the Roll can be a specific distance? like, 1.5*Movement? It makes sense, since you'll have a hard time stopping the roll before you finish it.

No idea on the spaces, though. I'm partial to Metric though, being european.

1.5 meters would have fractions
5 feet would use the imperial measurements
2 meters is HUGE, though perhaps fitting with Gorons and such
So you'd need something else, or...

>>15209284
Or 150 centimeters? (~5 feet)

Hey everyone, been lurking this for a while and thought I'd contribute, I've thrown together a conversion of the rings list from the Oracles games for use in this. I though they might make good loot.

http://www.mediafire.com/?8z4sibqauiyoseg .docx

http://www.mediafire.com/?7lc56fcv8d87ere .pdf

>>15209327
>Also, perhaps the Roll can be a specific distance? like, 1.5*Movement? It makes sense, since you'll have a hard time stopping the roll before you finish it.

But you can't roll as far as you can walk, although you move faster. And you have to stop and get up afterwards. I see it working mechanically like jumping. You roll to one point and then you're there.

>>15209349
Awesome!
And no, we haven't discussed the Pegasus Seed and stuff.
I don't think we've done ANY |Tool|s, actually.
Except the Pegasus Boots.

>>15209436
Thanks!
Have any weapons been done yet, I'd be happy to take a look at working out suitable numbers for them?

Right now I'll take a look through what's been done and see what I can do about a few of the |tool|s. I'll probably have it by the next thread...

>>15209327
Discounting the imperial measurements so easily shows just how retarded you really are.

>>15209538
see
>>15204737

>>15209538
see
>>15204737

>>15204737
Ah, lances did get changed to |melee|/Courage! I am pleased.

Not sure if they should be 2-handed, though, given that your typical jousting knight uses a shield...
Maybe 2-handed when used on foot, but can be couched for 1-handed use when mounted?

Also, shouldn't the boomerang and hookshot use |tool| skill for the attack roll?

>>15209660

Ah, well that looks good. I don't like the way that ALL swords are grouped into one... The way I see it, they should also go up in damage increments as they increase in power, i.e Wooden<Fighters'<Noble<Heroes'<Master

Anyone care to comment before I stat them out? Most powerful canon sword? Weakest? What the maximum DI should be?

>>15209934
Stronger versions of weapons will be avaliable. The values listed are for starter weapons, like your Hero's Sword and whatnot. Along the way, players will be able to find improved versions of their weapons, like the White Sword/ Master Sword, which could do either 3/4H to 1H of damage per success.

I don't think there should be more than 2 or 3 levels of upgrades, though. Too complicated that way.

>>15209669
Hookshot, perhaps, but the Boomerang seems good in the Ranged skill.

>>15210072

Right... I'll fix the values to make it more ballenced then. 1.5 heart damage maximum (Maximum being the master sword. And yes I'm aware of the Golden sword, but there are a LOT of swords) or 2? I think 2 would be something that would be good to work towards. The way I see it, the master sword should not be what a player should aim to get or to find, but it should be what the player should aspire to wield or be chosen by the sword as a worthy wielder... a Master...

The sword therefore being something the DM would only give to the strongest of characters nearing the end of their journey, and even then only after an arduous trek to actually find the sword.

>>15209934
This might be a good reference:
http://www.zeldawiki.org/Weapon_Strength#Weapon_Strength_By_Game

Judging by this, I'd say the weakest swords (Kokiri Sword, Wooden Sword, etc.) should be 1/4 heart, standard swords would be 1/2h, and the strongest non-|heavy| swords (i.e., Master Sword, Gilded Sword) should be 3/4h. 1h swords could exist, but they should be kept extremely rare and difficult to obtain (eg, Fierce Deity Sword). It's not a direct 1-to-1 conversion of the weapon stats from the games, but it seems like the best way to keep things balanced.

>>15210124
Scrap that. 1.5 is far too stong as you can do more than one hit/roll (something j just overlooked). An increase to the amount of dice kept wouldn't be a bad way to give more power though?

I am aware that the sword would be game changing, but it is in the games so I wouldn't be straying too far from the truth...

>>15210124
Keep in mind that an attack deals one damage increment *per success* scored in the attack, so a single attack can deal several damage increments. An increment of over 1.5h or 2h is HUGE, and should be reserved for |heavy| weapons only (which are balanced by requiring an action to recover after attacking). A 2h-increment weapon can quite conceivably deal as much as 6 hearts of damage with a single action.

>>15210167
>>15210146
Whoops, ninja'd...

Here's my first draft. In case anyone tries to tell me the DI's are too high, Arbitrary units, I'll confirm the exact numbers once I get an exact, certain highest DI.

I've listed all the swords on zelda.wikia.com and put whether I think they're worth putting it right now. So far I've put 10 down for definate.

What does /tg/ think?

>>15210124

Also, the way I see it.
Campaigns set in the Zelda universe would have a Link - Since the PC's aren't Link.
They shouldn't really be getting themselves a Master Sword.
But that's just me.

>>15210368
http://zelda.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Fairy%27s_Sword

>>15210416
Not even if they were to take on Ganon themselves? I can see where you're coming from, don't think I can't! Think about this as though the PCs are on the same path as Link and may overtake him or may always be one step behind him (reference LOTR: The Third Age for that style of story, occasionally bumping into canon figures).

But yeah as I said, it should be something the GM should be VERY reserved about awarding and not something the PCs should expect at all.
>>15210394
That's 2-Handed, I'm working on 1H right now, but be sure that I'll include it as and when.

In my opinion TP was just okay for a Zelda game, but I would really like to see the Spirit of Hero make a meaningful return.

I was the guy that brought up Subrosians, and would like to contribute, but honestly out side of suggestions it is best for me to stay out of it.

I do have my new Wacom in the shipping lanes. Could easily drawfag it up when it gets here.

>>15210507

Ballsed those post references up...

>>15210507

Much like an Anon posting earlier, I was gonna have my friends play through a OoT setting.
Where Link is in "Time travelling stasis."
And the PC's and their races have decide to kick Ganondorf in the shins a little and meddle with his stuff/plans as best they can before the HERO OF TIME can return and screw him up for sure.

So at the end Ganondorf himself decides the characters are too annoying and sets out to fight them, leading to their inevitable doom cause its Ganondorf.
For a first taster at the finished rules and stuff.

So they'd have no Master Sword, since Link is taking his sweet time (7 years) pulling it outta the Temple of Time.

>>15210368
I think you're overthinking this. The focus shouldn't be on constant weapon upgrades like you see in , but rather what sorts of neat stuff you can do with what you've got.

Just have two or three different tiers of weapon strength and put things where they seem most appropriate. Maybe the occasional super-legendary sword could be stronger than the high-tier weapons, but there shouldn't be many of those in the first place.
Judging by the weapon stats here >>15204737, I'd say 1/4 heart for weak tier, 1/2 heart for average tier, and 3/4 or maybe 1 heart for strong tier would work.

>>15210913
>like you see in ,

Derp, what the hell happened there?
Meant to say "like you see in D&D and JRPGs."

>>15210572
Sound interesting... Do you think the PCs'll enjoy their inevitable death?
>>15210913
I've got it basically down to being (using 4DI being the max):

1x Sub 1DI (wooden sword), 5x 1DI, 5x 2DI, 1x 3DI and 2x =>4DI.

I think I might have to upgrade one of the 2DI ones. The 2 high ones are Master sword (4DI) and Skyward Sword (DI5)

>>15210953

Ahhhh, OK I don't think that it would be upgrades so much as finding a sword in a long forgotten dunegeon every now and again, but other than that mostly focus on training! I make the list to make sure that there is the option to include the most iconic swords in the games.

>>15211081

Well, as a taster.
I mean - if it goes really well and the PC's are all over the shop being awesome. No reason it can't be helped.
As the DM, got room to breathe and do things different.
If you found out Ganondorf was coming for you, would you flee or prepare? I hope my PC's go down and fight like heroes personally.

But noone likes death, maybe they'll becom emini legends for the next campaign?

>>15211102
Those swords will definately be able to be included. They might not be as detailed as the weapons in the series in terms of damage accuracy, but there's nothing stopping GM's from reskinning the sword upgrade into one of those items. Part of what makes this system interesting to me is that it's easily reskinnable, much like Gamma World.

Certain items like the Four Sword can be given special abilities by the GM. In fact, a Four Sword campaign where the players are all part of the same person would be awesome.

>>15211102
I understand that, I just don't think it needs to be as varied and complicated as you're making it. My point is that when you have separate stats for a whole slew of different weapons, all at varying levels of power, it suggests the possibility of an arms race of sorts, always trying to track down the next better weapon. And while sidequests for sword upgrades work fine in the video games, it won't be so great in a party-based tabletop game, because you'd be dragging the entire party around on a quest whose reward directly benefits only one party member.

Also, trying to draw hard-and-fast stats for the weapons drawing directly from the games isn't a good approach in the first place because the damage isn't consistent across the different games. For instance, where the Master Sword is one of, if not THE absolute best sword in some games, it's only second in a string of 4 in LttP. Rather than trying to build categories that mirror the video games as closely as possible, just make the categories first to balance with the current system and then use the video game stats as a guide to choosing which category a sword belongs in.

>>15211288

If, say, every few "levels" a new tier was introduced, it could make a working tier system. And again, it would have to be a rather bad GM to constantly send the PCs on a quest specifically for a new sword; as anon once said... I went and looked for the quote but couldn't find it anywhere, but it was the the effect of "everyone should have fun or its not fun for everyone". (Also, even if it doesn't seem like it, I do agree with most of what you're saying, but someone's got to play devil's advocate...)

>>15211244

Good good, and yeah, I am keeping to canon in terms of damage scaling (keeping them all to the same level of strength) and the way that it works it end up with tier-ing!

>>15204737

Anyone opposed to me putting this on the Wiki?

>>15209405
We really, really don't need rules for rolling around as a form of movement. Was amusing in the 3D games, but seriously, does not require it's own rules. We don't want to bog down the system with little things like that. If you want, you can just say you're character rolls around everywhere as a quirk.

>>15211288
This is probably the right way to approach it. We're trying to capture the feel and fun of the Legend of Zelda world(s), not the specific numbers.

>>15212097
Do eet!

>>15212097
Go for it.

>>15212197
Agreed.

#.Low--Moderate--High
1.2k2-----3k3-----4k3
2.3k3-----4k3-----5k4
3.4k3-----5k4-----6k5
4.5k4-----6k5-----8k5

* * *

Keese
Life:1/4 Mass:1 Move:Fly 8
Attack: 2k2, 1/4H
Defense: 4k3, Dodge

Rat
Life: 1/2 Mass:1 Move 8, Climb 8
Attack: 2k2, 1/4H
Defense: 4k3, Dodge
Special:Theiving- steals rupees or ammo on a hit

Bokoblin
Life:2 Mass:4 Move:6
Attack: 3k3, 1/2H
Defense:3k3

Octorok
Life:1-1/2 Mass:4 Move:5, swim 5
Attack:3k3, 1/2H range 15
Defense:2k2

Zol
Life:1 Mass:2 Move:2, Jump 4
Attack:3k3, 1/4
Defense:2k2
Special: Puddle-Can sink into a flat shape and (gain stealth/become invisible?)
Split- produces 2 Gels when killed (unless killed with -1H)

Gel
Life:1/4 Mass:1 Move:1, Jump 4
Attack:3k3, no damage
Defense:Low
Special: cling- on a hit the gel sticks to the target, causing -1 speed and -1 keep die per gel

Chuchu (red or green)
Life:1-1/2 Mass:4 Move:3, Jump 4
Attack:2k2, 1/2H
Defense:2k2
Special: Puddle

Rope
Life:1 Mass:2 Move:6
Attack:3k3, 1/2H)
Defense:2k2
Special: Charge

Tektite
Life:1-1/2 Mass:4 Move:2, Jump 6
Attack:3k3, 1/2H
Defense: 3k3

>>15213168
I should note, I partially added things like Dodge, to represent how the creature was defending. If in the final version, people who are Actively Defending with Acrobatics get to move a space, then monsters with Dodge would move a space too.

Still not sure if monsters should be able to use Active Defense.

>>15213493
That "move one square on a dodge when actively defending" thing could be part of a Technique or Ability instead.

Hey, fa/tg/uys, I found a tile ripper that you can use to get tiles from the 2D games to make maps.

http://visualscripts.blogspot.com/2010/10/tileset-ripper.html

Bullbo
*Life: 5 Mass: 7 Move: 12
*Attack: Gore- 3k3, 3/4H
*Defense: 3k3

Skulltula
*Life: 3 Mass: 5 Move: 6, Climb 6
*Attack: Kick- 4k3, 1/2H
*Defense: 5k4
*Special: Hanging- The skultulla can suspend itself from a strand of thread attached to a point directly above it. The skultulla can climb vertically up and down this thread.
**Weakpoint- The Skulltula has a defense of 3k3 from the flank

Goiyra
*Life: 3 Mass: 4 Move: 6
*Attack: Boomerang- 4k3, 1/2H, Range 15, Stun, Returning
*Defense: 3k3

Stalfos Stalker (Undead, Skeleton)
*Life: 2+1/2 Mass: 4 Move: 4, Jump 6
*Attack: Swipe- 4k3, 1/4H
**Throw Bone- 5k4, Range 5, 1/4H

Baba Serpent (Plant)
*Life: 2+1/2 Mass:4 Move:0/4
*Attack: Bite- 4k3, 3/4H, Grapple
*Defense: 3k3
*Special: Grapple- On a hit, the Baba serpent grabs the target.
**Severed Mobility- When the Baba serpent's life falls below 1+1/4H and has been hit with an Edged weapon, the Baba serpent detaches itself from it's roots and gains a movement of 4.

Kargarok
*Life: 4 Mass:6 Move: 4, Fly 10
*Attack: Peck- 4k3, 1/2H
*Defense: 4k3

Leever
*Life: 2+1/2 Mass: 3 Move: 6, Burrow 6
*Attack: Spikes- 4k3, 1/2H
*Defense: 4k3

Bari (Aquatic)
*Life: 2 Mass: 5 Move: 0, Swim 4
*Attack: Tentacle- 3k3, 1/2H, Electric
*Defense: 3k3
*Special: Electrified- Free Action- When the bari is hit with an edged melee weapon, the attacker takes 1/2H electric damage and is Stunned.
**Split- Free Action- the bari produces 2 biri when killed, unless it's killing blow took it below -1H.

*Biri (Aquatic)
**Life:1/2 Mass: 2 Move: 0, Swim 4
**Attack: Tentacle- 3k3, 1/4H, Electric
**Defense: 3k3
**Special: Electrified- Free Action- When the biri is hit with an edged melee weapon, the attacker takes 1/2H electric damage and is Stunned.

Added these to the wiki along with an edited version of the minimal-threat monsters,

Here's my second draft of the Swords. I've set them into tiers, and dropped another few. Because I have dropped them doesn't mean I think they should be excluded, it means I think they should be stated differently e.g. The Four Sword.
Does this need re-rectifying? Should I write it out in a clearer fashion?

>>15215532
I think you're overly complicating things. Isn't it better to have a general category for weapons of similar strength than to stat out every weapon from every game?

>>15215591
Fair enough.

How does this seem?

Tier 1 (DI 1)
Fighter's Sword
Four Sword
Kokiri Sword
Ordon Sword
Recruit's Sword
Smith's Sword
Wooden Sword

Tier 2 (DI 2)
Gilded Sword
Hero's Sword
Oshus's Sword
Sword
Tempered Sword
Ultimate Sword

Tier 3 (DI 3)
Lokomo Sword
Magical Sword
Noble Sword
Razor Sword
White Sword

Tier 4 (DI 4)
Master Sword
Phantom Sword
Skyward Sword (DI 5)
Golden Sword (DI 5)

>>15215532
You're still making this way too complicated. Why not just use what was suggested here >>15210143?
1/4 heart for the crappy swords (wooden swords, practice swords, etc).
1/2 heart for most typical swords.
3/4 to 1 heart for upgraded/legendary swords.

If we go into this much detail with swords, then we'll need to do just as much work for every other weapon type, because not everybody's going to be a sword-and-board fighter like Link. That would mean a lot more work for us and a lot more bloat in the system. Better to just have a simple rule of "basic examples of this weapons deal X damage, upgraded versions deal X + 1/4, weaker versions deal X - 1/4", then give examples of where swords from the games would fall in case people want to use them.
It doesn't require painstaking analysis of the actual strength of the swords in the video games. And in fact, we *shouldn't* really do such analysis, because you really can't accurately compare strengths of swords across different games. Within a single game, yes, but not across games.

Weak. Typical. Strong. Three categories, with a simple formula that can be applied to any weapon type. Specific examples from the games should be placed into whichever of the three categories they best fit, and listed only in passing as examples of the different strength categories, except for the few legendary exceptions (such as the Four Sword) that possess particular special abilities. K.I.S.S.

>>15215936
What he said.

>>15212197
agreed. I think they realized that in TP people were rolling all the time because it was actually faster than running and now Skyward Sword lets you sprint but a little stamina meter pops up while you're sprinting. also, again, we're not trying to make a pnp simulation of a video game.

This?

Weak (DI 1)
eg.
Wooden Sword
Practice Swords

Typical (DI 2)
eg.
Hero's Sword
Sword

Strong (DI 3)
eg.
Razor Sword
White Sword

Legendary (DI>3)
eg.
Master Sword
Skyward Sword

>>15215806
DI 1, DI 2, DI 3, DI 4, wat?

>>15215806
These are all screwed up. NOTHING should be as weak as the wooden sword, for one, except perhaps for the Kokiri sword since it's small-sized. And even that's debatable.
Then you have other weirdness like arbitrary distinctions between starter swords from different games, the razor sword being stronger than the gilded (which is backwards), and the Lokomo sword (essentially a Master Sword expy) being weaker than the other legendary swords for some reason...

Seriously, we'd already established ages ago that the basic damage for a typical sword was 1/2 heart. From there, it's just a matter of determining if the sword is significantly stronger or weaker than a typical specimen.

>Weak: damage = 1/4h
Kokiri sword, wooden sword

>Typical: damage = 1/2h
All starter swords except wooden and Kokiri, noble sword, white sword, razor sword

>Upgraded: damage = 3/4h
Gilded sword, magical sword, seashell sword

>Legendary: damage = 3/4h, possess special qualities
Master Sword, Lokomo Sword, Phantom Sword, Four Sword, Skyward Sword (probably)

The tempered and golden swords from LttP should probably be excluded, since they were something of a fluke in the usual trend of sword acquisition in the games. Legendary swords have the same damage as upgraded swords because you'll notice the only games with upgraded swords either lack legendary swords or have weak swords as the basic weapon.
Having only three tiers of damage keeps closely to the games, because in no game besides LttP can you upgrade your weapon more than twice, and of these the only ones with two possible upgrades start you off with either Kokiri or wooden swords.

>>15216050

Damage Increments. It's what it said on the wiki. Each one represents 1/4 of a heart. Should I stop using that system?

>>15216126
You should read up on the rest of the system before you start trying to stat up stuff for it...we already had damage increments for most weapons. See >>15204737

>>15216151

I'll stop using this system then (though it hasn't actually changed the base sword damage put out in that post).

Here's my latest draft:

Weak (1/4 Hearts)
eg.
Wooden Sword
Kokiri Sword

Typical (2/4 Hearts)
eg.
All starting Swords
Standard Sword

Strong (3/4 Hearts)
eg.
Razor Sword
White Sword

Legendary (3/4 Hearts and other properties)
eg.
Master Sword
Skyward Sword

>>15216196
So basically, pretty much exactly what I proposed here >>15216112...

Razor sword and white sword should not be classified as strong swords, but rather as average, because they're upgrades of weak swords -- Kokiri sword for the former, wooden sword for the latter. The better examples for strong swords are the gilded sword (upgraded version of razor sword) and magic sword (upgraded version of white sword).

>>15216257
I'm fine with each weapon class going up by 1/4H, but i think that players should be subjected to the the "weak" class of weapons for very long, if at all. The monster stats are made with the assumption that most characters will be dealing 1/2H damage on average.

>>15218885
Argh, I meant to say "shouldn't". I just don't think that beginning characters should be forced to use the "weak" tier of weapons. Only of the GM wants to run a tutorial section, with very weak or very few monsters, should the players have to use them. And even then, once they start their quest for real, they should get their hands on average weapons as soon as possible.

I also think the Kokiri Sword is an average weapon, not a weak one.

So... If unopposed attack dice are automatically successes, what about unopposed defense dice? If they automatically succeed, won't that make it impossible to hurt some creatures or players?

>>15219481
Unopposed dice aren't auto-success; they have to roll a 4+ to be a success.

>>15220164
There was a debate earlier in this thread that said that having unopposed dice only succeed even on 3 or higher made it better to have fewer kept dice, which is the opposite of what we want. He proposed autosuccess instead.

>>15219481
I think the unopposed dice counting as automatic success is currently universal, potentially resulting in a few nigh-unharmable monsters/characters.

A few possible solutions include:
- Incorporating combat maneuvers that increase # of kept dice in exchange for some downside
- Heavy weapons ignore unopposed defense dice
- Combat maneuver (all-out attack) that ignores unopposed defense dice at the cost of lowering your own defense for the round.

My vote is for the third option. It allows for any character to do this (though I guess we could make it a technique, if nobody likes it being open to all), and is probably adequate to compensate for the occasions when it's needed. Also, it means somebody who invests heavily in defense still gains the benefit of his attackers having to rely on lowering their own defense in order to hurt him/her.

>>15220676
Additionally, certain powerful monster attacks might ignore unopposed defense dice without having to resort to the all-out attack maneuver, but these should be rare. There could also be a technique to reduce or eliminate the defense penalty when it is used with a heavy weapon.

>>15220676
Or maybe unopposed defense dice don't do anything, Since their purpose is to deny successes to the attacker.

Either that, or half the roll of an unopposed defense die can be added to one of the kept dice (maybe restricted to the lowest.)

>Defender rolls 4k4, attacker rolls 3k3,
>Defender gets 4,4,3,2. Attacker gets 5,4,4
>Attacker gets 2 successes normally
>If defender adds half of his unopposed roll (2) to his last kept die (3), he gets 4, which leaves the attacker with only one success.

In conjunction with the "Weapon Upgrades" discussion, I'm thinking of reducing the damage of starting Heavy weapons from 1+1/2H to 1H. Their damage will increase to 1+1/2H when upgraded. Sound fair? It makes Heavy weapons users a little less overpowered to begin with, while still dealing much more damage than their Melee counterparts.

I had thought unopposed defense dice only had an effect for active defense? That would help with making high-defense creatures more killable.

Also, we could make unopposed dice in an opposed check only succeed on 2 and up, which would make it possible to get damage through even against someone with a big defense roll, and wouldn't cause any issues with more kept dice sometimes being worse (since defenders win on a tie, a 1 is a failure for the attacker no matter what).

>>15221625
I feel like it might prove to be too big a nerf after we playtest it, given that you can't use both actions to attack with a heavy weapon, but for now I don't see why we shouldn't go with that.

>>15220878
I think we want unopposed dice to always be a good thing, yes? Adding half the unopposed die/dice to the lowest kept die seems like it would work just fine, especially since with multiple unopposed dice you could change that lowest into your highest before comparing, but only if your unopposed dice are pretty high. My concern is that it might be approaching the more complicated end of the simplicity scale, which is usually something best avoided. Then again, it might be fine. We'll have to playtest, which I'll be doing all summer hopefully.

>>15222215
It would be good for unopposed defense dice to do something, but currently the only real option I can see is to cancel out another of the attackers successes. That seems a bit much, seeing as the defender's opposed dice are already doing that.

It may be that having unopposed defense dice do nothing is ok, since defenders already win ties.

>>15222030
I think active Acrobatics let you move a space after being attacked, and active Shield defense let you use the shield's damage reduction.

And my thoughts on changing the damage of the Heavy Weapons were because successes multiply the amount of damage done. Ifa beginning character used one of those weapons, they could potentially do upwards of 4+1/2H of damage with 3 successes. That's enough to kill many starting characters and nearly all of the tenative monsters.

>>15222392
>I think active Acrobatics let you move a space after being attacked, and active Shield defense let you use the shield's damage reduction.

No, not that; what I meant was that, at least in the earlier threads, it was decided that unopposed dice in a passive defense roll would be meaningless, but unopposed dice in an active defense would cancel attacker successes, and I'd not seen anything changing that since.

Though actually, looking at the tentative stats on the wiki, I'm not so sure it'll actually be that big a problem anyway. The wiki states that the biggest pool a standard monster can get is 8k5 (the pool listed for a high threat/high stat monster), and we can safely assume a character's relevant virtue for attacking will be at least 3. If we give kept dice bonuses at the 3rd and 6th ranks in a skill, it's not unreasonable for a character to be able to match a high threat/high defense monster in kept dice count, since by the time you're facing those kinds of monsters, you should have earned enough XP to max out your attack skill.

Sure, those high-defense creatures will still be kind of hard to hit, but not impossible. And that strikes me as being just the way it should be.

Also, if we're going with sneak attacks adding your Wisdom score to your kept dice count, that will also give PCs a way to get past high defense pools -- they just have to be a bit more tactical about it. Again, seems pretty appropriate.

>>15222610
These are good points. Are these okay to be clarified and added to the wiki?

>>15222829
By "these" I meant the unopposed dice only counting for active defense. Just to clarify

>>15222610
Those pools are tenative, assuming we don't do that "Even skill ranks go into Kept." So yeah, let's stick with that for now. We can see how broken it is/isn't in playtesting.

Working on Moderate level monsters, any comments on the ones in the wiki so far? Hopefully the statblocks are readable.

>>15223207

All looks well so far good buddy.

bamp for zolda

Lizalfos
*Life: 4 Mass: 4 Move: 6
*Attack: Sword- 5k4, 1/2H
*Defense: 5k4


Dodongo
*Life: 6 Mass: 7 Move: 4
*Attack: Bite- 4k3, 3/4H
**Fire Breath- Charge 1- 4k3, 3/4H (Blast 3, Fire)
*Defense: 4k3, Armor 3/4H, Resist Fire 1H
*Special: Dislikes Smoke (Weakness)- An explosive thrown into a dodongo's mouth between it's charge and fire breath attack ignores the dodongo's armor and does 2x damage
**Exposed Flank (Weakness)- The Dodongo has no armor on it's flank.


Armos Statue (Construct)
*Life: 4 Mass: 6 Move: 3
*Attack: Tackle- 5k4
*Defense: 4k3, armor 1H
*Special: Silent Guardian- The Armos does not take actions or roll initiative until a creature moves within 3 squares of it.
**Shutoff Switch- A Minish-sized creature can enter the armos' space and deactivate it with a single action.
**Exposed Flank (Weakness)- The armos has no armor on it's flank.
**Crystal Eye (Weakness)- If the armos is shot from the flank with an arrow, it becomes inanimate. After 1 round, the armos can be reactivated if it is disturbed.
**Self Destruct- Free Action- When the armos is dropped to 0H, it does not die. Instead, it immediately moves 3 spaces. At he beginning of the next turn of the person who killed it, it explodes (attack 4k3, 1H, Explosive, Area 1) and dies.


Stalfos Knight (Undead)
*Life: 4 Mass: 5 Move: 5
*Attack: Longsword- 5k4, 1/2H
*Defense: 6k5
*Special: Stalfos Regeneration- Free Action- If the Stalfos is brought to 0H by anything other than a Light, Explosive or Bludgeoning attack, it remains dead until the start of it's next turn. At the start of it's next turn, it returns to life with 2H.

I came up with a common list of items that show up when dropped by monsters, found in grass, jars, chests, and ect. What cha think?

Dropped Item List

Rupee - Currency used.
Green (1): Most commonly found Rupee, can most certainly be found in grass, under rocks, broken jars, or dropped by minimal to low threat monsters.

Blue (5): Very commonly found Rupee, can be often found in grass, under rocks, broken jars, or dropped by minimal to low threat monsters.

Yellow (10): While unlikely, these Rupee can very rarely be found in the same conditions as Green and Blue. However Yellow can be commonly found in treasure chests, earns through games of chance, and often be dropped by moderate threat monsters.

Red (20): Red can be often found in treasure chests, earns through games of chance, and often be dropped by moderate threat monsters.

Purple (50): Purple is found in treasure chests, earns through games of chance, and often be dropped by high threat monsters.

Orange (100): Orange is found in treasure chests, earns through games of chance, and rarely be dropped by high threat monsters.

Silver (200): Silver is found in treasure chests, earns through games of chance, and very rarely be dropped by Boss monsters.

Rupoor - A cursed Rupee that actually devours the holder's currency based upon the color of the Rupoor.

Heart - A small red heart can recover one 1 heart increment to the player's health upon contact.

Magic Jar (Small) - A small green pot that holds an elixir that can recover 3 points of magic once consumed.

Magic Jar (Large) - A tall green pot that holds an elixir that can recover 6 points of magic once consumed.

Arrows - A small handful of arrows. (Will not appear for players who do not require use)

Bomb - A singular bomb. (Will not appear for players who have not used bombs before hand)

Pellets - A handful of seeds, rocks, ect that can be used in a sling. (Will not appear for players who do not require use)

Guardian Acorn - A small sturdy acorn that when consumed will reduce any damage they receive by half once.

Piece of Power - A small magic stone that resembles a piece of the Triforce. When applied to the player's weapon, their next strike that hits will deal double damage.

Seeds- (Will only appear when the player has a Seed Satchel in their possession.)
Armor Seed - A mystical crystal seed that when consumed, allows +1 keep die to the player's next active or passive defense roll.

Razor Seed - A mystical crystal seed that when consumed, allows + 1 keep die to the player's next offensive roll.

Pegasus Seed- A mystical seed that when consumed or stuck with, grants the player or creature to move double their movement on their next move action.

Ember Seed - A seed that will erupt into flames when cracked.

Scent Seed - A seed that emits a weird smell when cracked, which can attract or repel certain creatures.

Gale Seed - A seed that when cracks can create a small tornado that can lift a player up and transport them safely afew meters in the direction that the seed cracked. This seed can be used to push creatures as well.

Mystery Seed A seed that holds a unknown power which when cracks can be left up to the GM to decide the outcome.

>>15225962
>>15225971
>>15225991

Looking great! I wonder if those could be applied to some kind of table to roll on whenever an enemy drops or a random pot is smashed. I've been playing a lot of Links Awakening, so the use of Guardian Acorns and Pieces of Power make me happy.

That, and maybe save Silver Rupees for puzzles a la Ocarina of Time.

all i know is i don't want to live in a world that doesn't let me play a Picori/Minish

>>15226361

D100
01-25: Nothing
26-50: Rupees
51-65: Arrows/Bombs/Pellets
66-85: Seeds
86-90: Piece of Power/Guardian Acorn
91-100: Regeneration Items

Arrows/Bombs/Pellets - D6
1-2: Arrows
3-4: Bombs
5-6: Pellets

Seeds - D6
1: Razor
2: Pegasus
3: Ember
4: Scent
5: Gale
6: Mystery

Regeneration Items - D6
1-2: Heart
3-4: Magic Jar (Small)
5-6: Magic Jar (Large)

>>15228181

Just noticed how unballenced this is... I'll try to get a better one out later...

>>15228204
No problem, it's definitely on the right track. Remember though that we're using D6's only, so a later version might be a roll of 1d6 or 2d6 instead of a d100.

Here's my second thoughts...

Monster Drop Table

D100
01-20: Nothing
21-65: Rupees (Green -> Orange incl. Rupoor)
66-75: Arrows/Bombs/Pellets
76-85: Seeds
86-90: Piece of Power/Guardian Acorn
91-100: Regeneration Items

Arrows/Bombs/Pellets - D6
1-2: Arrows
3-4: Bombs
5-6: Pellets

Seeds - D6
1: Razor
2: Pegasus
3: Ember
4: Scent
5: Gale
6: Mystery

Regeneration Items - D6
1-2: Heart
3-4: Magic Jar (Small)
5-6: Magic Jar (Large)


Rupees

Minimal Threat - D100
01-75: Green
76-100: Blue

Low Threat - D100
01-50: Green
51-90: Blue
91-100: Yellow

Medium Threat - D100
01-05: Green
06-20: Blue
21-55: Yellow
56-90: Red
91-99: Purple
99-100: Rupoor

High Threat - D100
01-05: Blue
06-25: Yellow
26-60: Red
61-95: Purple
96-99: Orange
99-100: Rupoor

>>15229028

Ah, didn't catch this... I'll have a look at how I can work this with the lists. Either way it *might* be time for a new thread, as this ones auto-saging on page 12...

>>15229028
Fixed.

Monster Drop Table

Roll 2D6
02-04 : Nothing
5-10 : Rupees (Green -> Orange incl. Rupoor)
11 : Arrows/Bombs/Pellets
12-13 : Seeds
14 : Piece of Power/Guardian Acorn
15-16 : Regeneration Items

Arrows/Bombs/Pellets - D6
01-02 : Arrows
03-04 : Bombs
05-06 : Pellets

Seeds - D6
01 : Razor
02 : Pegasus
03 : Ember
04 : Scent
05 : Gale
06 : Mystery

Regeneration Items - D6
01-02 : Heart
03-04 : Magic Jar (Small)
05-06 : Magic Jar (Large)

Rupees

Minimal Threat - 2D6
02-10 : Green
11-12 : Blue

Low Threat - 2D6
02-06 : Green
07-11 : Blue
12 : Yellow

Medium Threat - 2D2
01 : Green
02-03 : Blue
04-07 : Yellow
08-10 : Red
11 : Purple
12 : Rupoor

High Threat - 2D6
01 : Blue
02 : Yellow
03-06 : Red
07-10 : Purple
11 : Orange
12 : Rupoor

>>15229147

Ya forgot Armor Seeds in that list.

>Armor Seed - A mystical crystal seed that when consumed, allows +1 keep die to the player's next active or passive defense roll.

>>15229028

You think a 1d100 would be better suited for the GM alone? Its safe to assume a player won't be using one, the GM however may rely on this for a multitude of reasons.

>>15229372
Ah, my bad.

Seeds - D6
01 : Razor/Armor(Roll 1D6 again)
->01-03 :Razor Seed
->04-06 :Armor Seed
02 : Pegasus
03 : Ember
04 : Scent
05 : Gale
06 : Mystery

(Just to mention, I have everything I've contributed saved separately in case any of it is wanted)

My justification for this is that they both affect the player in similar ways. Either this or it could be the DM's discretion?

I'm just gonna leave this here as well, I'll be back later tonight

Mystery Seed Outcome Table

3D6
01-02 ) Nothing
03-04) Element
05-06) Summon
07-08) Polymorph
09-10) Create Dropped Item
11-12) Invisible
13-14) Explode
15-16) Warp
17-18) Regeneration

>>15229454

If this is still around, just to mention: you can't get 1 or 2 with 3D6, you might have to shuffle it a bit.

>New thread
>>15229712