http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Wild_Cards

>>14838619
People seemed to have moved on to other things. Also, I still think some form of poker would be appropriate for this game and setting (it should still be in the discussion section of the wiki).

>>14838860
wc was my favorite, always read the writing but never got around to running it... what's another good /tg/ homebrew that actually has good rules

>>14838901
As much as I don't like the DH rules, Adeptus Evangelion is a solid retooling of those rules.

Sweet, Wild Cards. I'll post some writefaggotry.

“Straight Flush, Queen high.” I said, smirking, laying my five Diamonds on the table in front of me. The other ruffians gathered 'round cursed and spat, tossing their losing hands back towards the dealer as I pulled the money towards me, stashing the small pot into a pouch at my side.

“I've had enough of your dumb luck for one night, stranger.” The biggest one said, scooting back from the table and heading towards the bar. The rest of the players spouted words of agreement, heading out of the saloon or to the second floor, or where ever the hell they were off to, leaving just myself and the dealer still sitting.

“Well, guess I'll be off too.” I said, looking over at the dealer. “Not very fun playing poker with just two people, eh?”

The dealer shifted slightly, the cowboy hat on his head angled over his face just far enough that all I could see was his mouth. His eyes stayed ever hidden, just like they had been that entire night. Guy had some skills, though, passing cards out around the table and pulling card tricks occasionally to the applause of the players, almost as if he knew exactly where all his cards would be.

“Oh, I wouldn't be off just yet, partner.” He said, his rugged voice drifting like a tumbleweed across the table as he collected his cards, shuffled them, and raised his hands, the cards nowhere to be seen. “How about one more hand?”

Shrugging, I settled back down, reaching into my pouch. “What are the stakes?”

“Not a thing, friend. No money. Just cards.” He drawled, lifting his hat just high enough to reach underneath it. From the bullet hole in the hat, I didn't see anything underneath, but he soon produced another deck of cards. This one appeared somewhat thinner than a standard deck, like it was missing a few, but I paid it no mind.

Spreading them out on the table in front of me, he gestured as if asking me to pick a card.

“Trying to be some two-bit magician?” I asked with a chuckle, leaning forward. “Gonna tell me what card I pick?”

He said nothing, but the mouth underneath that hat grinned.

“Ah, hell.” I said, looking over the cards, before drawing one from the lineup. Turning it over, I laid it down on the table.

“Seven of Spades.” The dealer said, looking at the card.

“So now what?” I asked, leaning back in my chair and staring at him. “Gonna shuffle and try to impress me?”

The dealer chuckled, a gravelly, rasping sound. “Not at all. The cards have already been dealt. Now you just need to make a choice.” He said, leaning forward, staring at the card. “Play? Or Fold?”

Glancing down, I gasped at seeing an ornate gun where the card had laid before. A seven-shot revolver, handle made of wood that practically shined like the sun, the barrel a dark metal, almost black, and on the hammer, the number 7, merging into an upside-down spade.

I had heard the rumors on my travels, but this was my first time seeing a Gun in the flesh. It made my old slugtosser seem like a worthless hunk of metal.

“Why me?” I asked, running my fingers over the smooth grip.

“Don't ask me.” The Dealer said. “The Gun chose you. Just as they all do.”

As my hand wrapped around the grip, the Gun almost seemed to hum, the air around it visibly shaking. “Well, in that case, I can hardly turn it down, can I?”

The last I saw of him was his grin before he was gone, as though he had never set foot in the saloon.

Quickly, I pulled my slugtosser from its holster inside my jacket, gently sliding the Seven of Spades into it and pulling my jacket closed. Tossing the slugtosser onto the table, I grabbed my coat, tossed a gold coin to the bartender, and threw my coat on as I walked out into the cold night.

I jumped up onto my horse hitched nearby, and gave the reins a quick tug to loosen them. I guided my steed out into the night, heading out of the town, and in no particular direction.

Where was I going? What was I going to do once I got there? I had no idea. But I was sure my partner would know.

My Seven of Spades.

My Golden Horizon.

>>14839035
>>14839042
>>14839048

goddamn do i love the writing for this. the best of the western rps, hands down

Wildcards is pretty cool. The system sucks though, amirite?

>>14839086
Which is exactly why it got ditched, I assume. Although with some work, the system could be awesome and innovative, with the best part being you can play in public and not get criticized for it.

I always wanted to play this. I wish it was finished.

Currently working on a re-imagining of the concept of Wild Cards in a renaissance style environment, using the Tarot Cards as a base and expanding the items to include weapons, armour, jewellery and the like with a variety of powers.

Will probably use a different system to run it.

>>14839144
you are not alone, my friend

we should get some people in here to help work on the crunch, seriously. i'm sure someone's had some good ideas for making a system from scratch

fuck I love this shit

>>14839137
Sarcasm aside, if you have any questions about the rules, I'll be happy to field them; I DID make 'em, after all. Well, the dice ones, at any rate.

>>14839169

I wasn't being sarcastic. I think taking a deck of cards and some D6s to a bar and having some fun playing Wild Cards would be fucking awesome. Especially if you happen to live near one that's old-western styled.

And please, share with us your rules. I like the idea of a unified system with a deck and some dice.

>>14839201
i think he was the one being sarcastic bro

>>14839201
I was the one being sarcastic. If you'll notice, I was the one you first replied to.

I made the system in Wildcards: The Gameplay working on my lonesome (then field-testing it with my regular group). The card rules are a separate entity that had my blessing but which I had no part in.

>>14839225
the card rules are definitely interesting but it seems like it would take longer, having to shuffle every fucking time for the randomness to stick with each encounter/hand/what have you.

>>14839242
Like I said, I had no part in its conception; the Card variant was designed by committee on the suptg IRC.

All I did was the version that uses Dice rolling.

>>14839291
would you care to post some of your rules? perhaps we can clear up the whole "this system sucks" fiasco, make it easier for our friends here to run

>>14839242
I don't think that'd be so hard, probably the dealer's (GM's) job. Besides, shuffling cards feels good.

>>14839302
They're all here:

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Wild_Cards:_The_Gameplay

Would you like me to post them here directly?

>>14839307
this is true. it relieves stress.

bump

"Hey, I see you're finally here. What the hell took ya so damn long?"

Mac, he throws me a bottle of the good stuff. Best damn whiskey I'd ever drank, and this S.O.B.'s making it in his backyard? Hard to believe, but it's true. So, I'm sitting there, drinking, when this guy, big fucker, he shows up on the horizon.

"Eh, lookit that feller over there! He looks weird, kinda like... an Injun!"

Everyone that was there turned at that. An Injun, in our lands? Sure enough, this guy, yeah, he's an Injun alright. He's big, built, and looks like he could take a bullet or two and keep fighting. A real tough looking guy if I ever saw one. He walks over and in his big, deep, Injun voice says, "Have any of you seen a dog run through here?"

Everyone goes quiet. Mikey, in the back, he speaks right up right away. "What's it to ya, big boy? Need that dog fer one'a yer little 'ritchulls' ya'll hold ta make it rain and such?" We all laughed.

"He's my pet, white man. He's one of my only companions in this world... Please, if any of you saw him, I-"

Davey decides he'll pipe up now. "Why come ya'll Injuns always dance around hoopin' and hollerin'? You fellers like the sound'a yer stupid chants or what?" He pantomimes an Injun war dance, and the big feller starts looking real angry.

"Please stop this. I should warn you all, I have a gun."

Either Percy or Terry jumps in now, I can't remember. "Oooooh, we're real scared of a gun!"

"It's a Card."

Everyone goes quiet. That's when Gerald, big guy of our group, the guy who'd break your damn arm if ya arm wrestled him, he steps forward and pulls out his piece, the Three of Diamonds. It's a damn nice gun, faster than the fastest I ever seen. 'Course, that Injun had him beat.

The Injun's gun was LONG. The barrel musta been one and half, maybe two feet long. Thing was all prettied up, silver plating, ivory handle. That's when we noticed the mark: The Ace of Hearts.

Gerald, he's looking shocked, but he still stands there, and he looks the Injun right in the eye and says something you NEVER say to a man with an Ace: "Let's duel."

The two of them, they stand back to back, guns out. Gerald decides he wants to do this like his forefathers, so they start pacing forward. Ten, nine, eight, seven, they walk down to one, and Gerald turns around, but by then, he's already been shot through the head, blowing the whole top half of his head clean off. And there's the Injun: not even facing his direction! I swear to ya, that Injun's gun let him shoot the man dead without even turning around!

The rest of the boys and I, well, we got angry, so we started shooting. But, thing is, he just turns around all slow like, firing shots right up into the air where they were sure to miss, and somehow they hit all of my men. These bullets hit 'em HARD too: Mikey's whole top half got blasted off! By the time he faced me directly, I was the only one alive. He points that big gun of his right at my head and cocks back the hammer. At this point I know I can't beat him, so I throw my gun to the side, and I get down and pray to him like he's Jesus-fucking-Christ.

"So, white man, did you see my dog or not?" He's looking at me with those damn eyes of his. They cut through my soul like a hot knife through butter.

"Y-yes. Yes we did. It went east."

"Oh, did he now?"

"Yep, he sure did."

"You know, I'll need money for the long trip ahead of me."

"Here, man, take all of mine." I had 20 dollars on me, and I gave him all of it.

He looks down. "Those are nice shoes."

I hand him them too. I look at him, pleadingly and I say, "Please don't kill me, Mister Injun."

Before walking off into the sunset he smiles at me and chuckles, and says something I'll never forget:

"I'm out of bullets."

To address the reshuffling:

Honestly how many people can count cards? They may remember the Aces and Kings are gone, but not the whole fiasco. Keeping a straight deck until it's used has its own interests.

If they can count those cards, or know the deck is slightly in their favor they may try more riskier things banking on hitting that Ace or King. Likewise, if the good cards have been mostly spent the party would probably act cautious if they were paying attention.This could be used in tandem with the DM to set the appropriate mood.

Had that Big Bad you wanted to introduce, but didn't want him blown away? Wait until the deck is bad for his reveal.

Also, you could give the players the option to pick when the deck is reshuffled. At some sort of cost to them. If they spend it all just to bring those Aces back into the deck they could be in great trouble later.

Just some thoughts. I don't know what exactly would be a good price for reshuffles. Definitely not something easily recovered or eventually massed.

I think the turn out of the deck past the later stages, when it's not 100% random, could prove for some interesting results. Especially when it's bad and the group doesn't have any reshuffles left or is holding onto them.

Now that I think about it, I was waiting for a thread like this for a while. You see, when people were still debating over a set of rules for WC, I started to come up with a system based around poker to fit the theme and to add a sense of strategy to it. I never got to showing it because the rules on the 1d4chan wiki kept changing before I could chime in on it, but here's what I got so far. FAR from complete, but it basically outlined a couple core ideas about how I thought the game should have been structured.

goo dot
gl slash
RMOrg (Damn 4chan and its cautiousness against shortened URLs.)

>>14839715
Most of the changes were based on formatting the rules to look nice.

The Wild Cards ruleset that I made has only had two real iterations; one "alpha" version that was bare bones, and another, more in-depth beta release that has worked well so far. That is the one that is posted on 1d4chan.

bump.

>>14839715
file unavailable, by the way

>>14839799
Well, it seemed to be agreed that the idea of actually using cards was more or less not a good one by most of the folks in the threads, so I dropped it at the time.

>>14839802
Whoops. Forgot to change the access to those who have the link. Let's try this again.

goo dot
gl slash
6RT0w

>>14839829
Oh, and also a character sheet to go with it.

goo dot
gl slash
ofjNH

>>14839888
>>14839829

Awesome.

>>14839829
I was the one who maintained that a card system would be untenable. I still do, as a matter of fact. However, I wholeheartedly support the development of a card-based system that actually works solidly.

The reason that card rules got tacked onto the dice rules that I put out was because people felt so strongly about the issue that they tried to work around it and add it to a system that assumes Dice Rolling as its primary mechanic. Its an admirable effort, but the disparities between actual poker/other card games and the loops the card-based ruleset has to go through become clear when you give it more than just a cursory glance.

I could probably bang out a card-based system, if I felt the inclination to do so. I've always worked better alone, using myself and my group as a sounding board. However, I'm just not feeling the fire.

>>14839968
Like I said. It was FAR from finished and dropped given the direction WC went in. No playtesting or anything at that point. Just a bunch of ideas really. Thanks for at least taking a glance at it though. It's appreciated.

>>14839988
Hilariously, I might have had something to do with that.

Everybody was all gung-ho about making a card-based system, but nobody was really getting anywhere by committee. Then I rode in with my new system, and everybody just about gave up.

You've got my support if you want to make the card-based system. Single endeavors are usually far more successful in regards to crunch, when it comes to /tg/.

I've always kept one phrase near and dear to me: /tg/'s a crowd.

>>14840123
Yeah, I never really got well in groups when it came down to the nitty gritty (I blame the countless group projects throughout my school years where I ended up being the only one who did any work in the first place), though I am well at taking and using constructive criticism to make something better (art school DOES teach you something, apparently.)

As for the idea behind the card-based system, I tried to keep the feel of the Wild West while still keeping a sort of significance on the actual stats, however few they may be. Pretty much, the number on the stat determines how many chances you get at drawing a better hand. Of course, the finer points of poker still remain, especially the idea of knowing when to hold them and knowing when to fold them. You may have a better hand than your opponent at the beginning, but you don't know that, so you may try to get an even better hand. You may do just that, or end up with a worse hand in the end.

Though one snag I ran into when I was whipping up the document I linked above was how do I give the stats more recognition and significance, outside of the usual modifiers and such? I could personally handle it through sheer storytelling (my niche, I know), but I know that such an approach is clearly not everyone's cup of tea.

>>14840191
Have you considered implementing some kind of reference to Suits, like I did with my own stuff?

You could also go with dropping stats and making it a purely narrative system, using Poker hands for conflict resolution; I believe there's a precedent for that with a system based on sitcoms or something.

Oh, how I have missed this project, and so many other projects. But what is this? It's summer again, and I have all he time I need to sit around working on systems, fluff, and other bullshit at my usual breakneck pace?

I was always firmly in support of a card-based system, and firmly against those who wanted to make it poker-based, since all those people seemed to want EVERY ACTION TAKEN (A single attack, perhaps) to require a hand be played. This would be okay if each player was only allowed one action per turn, or better yet, if some bullshit variant of poker could be created where a single round of it, played for all characters, would resolve all actions taken in that initiative round. This doesn't seem like a feasible option to me, and playing entire hands of poker, while it catches it's own charm and tempo, seems like it would break the fast-paced action of the shootout it is meant to represent into sad little pieces.

However, there was no fire for new system ideas soon after I got involved with WC, and I quickly lost interest in making a system nobody wanted.

>>14840246
I kinda wanna do something with it. Maybe a sort of RPS variant with the suits, but that's been done to death with a lot of homebrews. Though it may be efficient, it makes the game feel a bit... hollow, you know?

As for narration, while I was going in that direction with the poker hands, I do want to give the players some semblance of control instead of playing a series of poker hands. Some sort of synthesis to entertain both the freeform storytellers and those who need a little structure, so to say.

>>14840277
An avid poker player myself, I know about how LONG and DRAAAAWN-OUT a game can get if not moderated properly (or if you got players who have only watched poker on TV before playing, of course.) I tried to mitigate that with the idea of spending actions as each draw instead of an entire hand, leaving only the climactic moments for the actual Showdowns themselves.

But then again, there is the issue of moderation and keeping the flow going. Wonder how I can get around that... maybe make each participant play their hands blind so that they can't mull over what they have?

On a somewhat unrelated note, threads like this is why I love /tg/ - even in disagreement we can (sometimes) discuss this like gentlemen. As thanks, tits.

>>14840277
I can see a simple resolution. Make everybody's actions reflect what's happening in the game. Chips are the equivalent of narrative points AND hit points; you spend chips/add chips to the pot during your point to make things happen. Everybody else either chips in or folds; once everybody's had a turn and it comes back to the dealer, he either resolves the situation or keeps the narrative going.

>>14840311
Go on.

>>14840320
Derp, forgot my name.

In that vein (during a "Bar Fight"):

Player 1 adds... Lets say 10 to the pot; he describes that he's trying to crack his bottle over somebody's head.
Player 2 raises; he decides he's going to throw his chair at the window to make a quick getaway.
Player 3 has a shitty hand, so he folds; he's hiding under the table.
Player 4 also raises. He's going to try and pull his gun out and shoot shit up.
Dealer reveals next card.
Player 1, feeling lucky, keeps going; he plays more narrative chips, saying he managed to hit that guy and is now swinging a fist at him.
Player 2 folds; his chair went through the window, but there's too big a brawl going on for him to reach it. He tries to get out of the fight.
Player 3 is still cowering under the table, drinking his beer
Player 4 matches Player 1, firing one shot in the air to see if shuts everybody up
Dealer reveals next card, resovles issues

And so on and so on.

Understand, this is just a rough thing drawn together from hazy recollections of poker.

Isn't there already RPGs with card based resolution systems?

I know there is a version of Deadlands but I've never read it.

SAGA system for Dragonlance: Fifth Age and Marvel Super Heroes Adventure Game. I've only skimmed it but I think it might work. It uses a custom deck of cards however so it would need some tinkering.

>>14840311
Nicking up to respond to you responding to me.

I apparently forgot how poker works while typing my first post. You have opened my eyes, in your version, raising the stakes is a narrative decision: you are doing something that forces all the other characters in the shootout to either fold (stay behind cover, flee, whatever) or put themselves equally at risk. People who fold under certain circumstances are incapacitated, but not dead (although possibly bleeding out). People who go out are at the mercy of whoever won the hand, who can kill them or let them simply be incapacitated.

Each hand in the poker game is a single round of combat, and the movement of chips shows the shifting weight of the fight towards one shooter. I don't know enough poker to know how teams or anything would work where it's more complex than EVERYONE SHOOT EVERYONE ELSE. Maybe something using stats and other character features, where people, even when losing a hand, might steal back some of their bet, etc etc?

>>14840375
Okay, that's kinda like what I was going for with the poker system, though the points spent were stat points. This kinda sounds like what we figured out for Kicks, where poker chips or the like were used to represent action points in a scene. I suppose all-in bets would be drastic actions that can possibly get you killed be the Dealer cruel enough.

Anyhoo, off to bed with me. LONG day tomorrow at work. But one more thing before I go. A gift to y'all: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/14838619/

You're welcome!

>>14840405
It also ties into the way that the Wild Card users aren't really "friends"; they're more like associates. What they're really doing out there is collecting the cards, and it just so happens that grouping together is a bit safer than going at it alone. If somebody busts, you don't shed much water; you take their card and move on (realistically, the guy's character is dead, dealer either lets him draw a new card or re-draw the one that he lost by having some random schmuck pick it up, he gets let in with a base chip allowance).

That's another thing: Base Chip Allowance. Allowing more chips (Say, 100 pts worth of chips or 500 pts worth of chips to be in play would let people choose the power level of their campaign.

>>14840585

I'll think about it some more and maybe have some more ideas up in this thread sometime tomorrow, if it's around. If not, I'll wait for a new thread and post it in there when I see it. Right now I am tired and want to sleep.

bump

So I'm trying to figure out a poker-based RP system that might work with this.

My idea is that each round is represented by a hand of texas hold 'em poker. Poker Chips are basically "action points"- you bet them to take action in the round. The player who wins get a "Quick Draw" bonus and gets to act first. Any other players who got to the fourth card without folding then take turns in order of "initiative" (a stat or something, to be determined). Players who folded before the last two flop cards are considered to be waiting or stalling in some fashion and thus don't get to act in that turn.

Instead of the winner receiving the poker chips in the pile, the chips go back to the Dealer (to be used in the next conflict sequence). At the end of each hand, the players use their two "hole" or "pocket" cards in combination with the Dealer's community cards to play out the round.

Play goes around until either there is no conflict left or all the players are out of chips. At this point, a new conflict sequence can begin (either because there is still conflict left or because something new has occurred to renew the conflict) after a brief reprieve, narrative-wise. This reprieve should only be roughly around a 5-second breather. With the new conflict sequence comes a refresh of poker chips from the Dealer.

Now, I've got a number of conflict-resolution ideas involving the cards (the community cards card-value average could be the difficulty rating of actions that turn, and the average card-value in a player's pocket cards are the strength of their actions, where greater than community = success and less than = failure, or something similar) but first I'd like to see what you think of this turn system. It might be a little convoluted at the moment, so anything you guys can think of to streamline would be great.

If you don't like the Poker version, why not make a Blackjack version?

>>14841918
Continuing on this idea...

Spades - Higher Maximum bet. Total number of cards that went into a blackjack (say, 3 cards) goes into maximum bet.

Clubs - Hands played without splitting allowed a higher maximum bet; when hitting 21 with at least an ace, the aces are treated as a high card for effect.

Diamonds - Higher Maximum Bet on Splits. On 21, can split cards (so if blackjack on 5 cards, you can then have a 5-way split instead of the normal 2).

Hearts - ???

Bets are like the total HP you have as well as damage you MAY do when attacking, amounted to total of stats and the rank of your Card. Stats are the maximum you can bet on a hand initially (2 hearts = up to 2 hearts when your initial hand contains a heart). For every 10 value your cards are worth you gain a free chip to bet anytime (even on the same hand, after the fact). So on 18, you'd gain 1 chip. 20, 2 chips. On 21 (blackjack) you gain 3. In the Spade's example above with [9,9,A,A,A], you can get a 48, which amounts to 5 (blackjack's 3 and 2 from extra aces).

>>14842756
>Stats are the maximum you can bet on a hand initially (2 hearts = up to 2 chips when your initial hand contains a heart).
fix'd

If had a heart and a spade in your hand, you could bet to the maximum of your hearts and spades. If you had two hearts, you could bet up to twice your heart stat.

>>14841404
>>14842756
I like where this is going.

>>14841918
And I think you're on to something too. In any case, morning bump before work. I hope the thread's still here when I get home.

morning bump

Four of Clubs: "Fool's Gold"

Casey Clement was once a good kid, bit scrawny for his age but determined. Both his parents died when he was a youngin' an' he grew up alone. The day of his eighteenth, he went out west, to North California, to rustle up some gold to line his pockets. Clement worked for years an' years, slowly goin' Norther and Norther, 'til one day he woke up an' found himself pannin' near a preetty ol' lake in the Yukan. He had spent his nights at a goldhunters camp with a bunch of other men seeking to line their own pockets. All this time, Casey Clement was jus' gettin' bigger an' bigger. By the time he hit this lake, he'd gone from skin'n'bones to a mountainous man. He was well liked an' was enjoyed in the company of the others. He could hold his liquor and would play card games all night long if given the chance.

One night Casey found hisself playing a game of pinochle with a bunch of loons and broads, he was pullin' winnin' hands all night but kept the spirits of the others up with rounds on rounds. But alcohol can only persuade someone so much and soon Clements company left. Some time after the others had gone up and shacked with their various mates, Casey Clement sat alone in the bar with only the tender for company.

"I thinksssssss, I'll be havin' one more, Joe..... Joe! JOE! I wanna 'nother beer, man."

Joe looked up and called out, "Goddammit, Clement. Last call was two hours ago."

"Be a pal... man *hic* and let me have 'nother... ummm... pint... yeah thasssit *hic*. I'll payss you double.... No, triple."

Not willing to let such an opportunity to tear into the purse of such a hopeless drunk go, Joe gleefully obliged an' hurried into the back. As he walked out, another man walked in. A biggun, not like Clement mind, but big enough.

Fucking Captcha disappeared on me.

He approached Clement at his table and laid down a deck of cards, a pack that look liked it was brought right out of the 12th century.

"I hear you'se a lucky man, Clement. How's 'bout we play a game and see how lucky you are?"

Immediately sobering up*, Clement turned and looked at the man trying to discern his facial features. "What kinda game?"

"Well a card game, any'll do." replied the man.

"What's your wager?"

"No wagers. Just a test of luck. Lets see... will you pick a card?" The man fanned out the cards and held them out to Casey Clement. Slowly, Clement obliged the man and pulled a card: The Four of Clubs.

As he held it, Clement noticed that the card had the clubs centered with a single gold coin. He looked up to ask the other man about it, but he was gone.

"Fuckin' waste of time," cursed Clement throwing his card onto the table, where it slid across the surface and fell off of the other side with a heavy thud.

A thud? Clement nearly flipped the table over in his attempt to see what happened. There, on the ground, was the prettiest God-Damned rifle he had ever saw. With a stock made of ivory, surely, and four barrels made of silver, the gun nearly made Clement drool.

He held the weapon up in reverence, inspecting it closely, now. The ivory was inlaid with jade in the shape of leaves and had a single cold coin surrounded by four gold and green jade clovers. He sighted the weapon just as Joe walked back into the room.

Instantly upon seeing the weapon, Joe dove behind the counter and came up with a gun of his own, a little slug tosser.

"Give me that purty weapon and I won't have to be a blasting you, Clement."

"Joe, I wasn't gonna shot ya. I just was lookin' at..."

"I DON'T GIVE A FLYING FUCK! GIVE ME THE GUN OR I'LL GIVE YOU ANOTHER HOLE TO SHIT OUTTA!"

Clement turned slowly towards Joe and then with the speed of a trained gunsman, he fired off all four barrels before Joe could even think to react. Joe dropped deader than anything he had ever seen. The gun itself was flowing with a hot viscous liquid that burned and cracked the wood of the floor. It was gold, pure liquid gold.

Casey Clement went over to the body and saw the damage he'd done. Joe's body was covered in bleedin' sores each matched with a single golden pellet, like those outta a shotgun.

Clement stood up, cursed Joe as a fool, left the bar, hitched up his horse and left town.

bump

Fuck yeah Wild Cards.

>>14845293
i like your logo. im guessing you made a change or two to the rules since you made your own cover page?

>>14845333
Nope, I used the exact rules on the wiki page, worked fine for me. Actually used JSCervini's world background layout, it made a lot of sense.

>>14839491
>Mac
>Brews his own beer

Are you a Dresden Files fan, perhaps?

>>14845667

The writer could be, perhaps, that's a story some writefag made back when Wild Cards was new.

>>14845691
Oh, well then. I hadn't read all of the Wild Cards stories so I just kinda assumed that it was a new one.

My mistake.

>>14845714

No worries, man. I invite you to read:

http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Wild_Cards:_Stories_of_the_World

You'll get quite a heavy dose of epic western writing.

>>14845738
Why thank you my good sir.

Okay, I'm back y'all. Let's see what I missed.

>>14845293
Nice logo. Very concise and to the point.

>>14845371
Glad you like my take on the background fluff, though I believe I took a great deal of it from the wiki and just rewrote some of it to make more grammatical sense.

>Back to Crunch
So, pretty much we're tossing around an idea of using poker, but not really poker as a means of conflict resolution. I'm sure this would be used only in battles and other life-threatening or game-changing situations.

I also like the idea of using the suits to trigger abilities and the like. Now, if we're going to go with that, how about a variant of Texas Hold 'Em to where one of each player's hole cards are face-up. The face-up card (dealt by the Dealer, of course, not chosen by its player) would determine what ability is triggered. Meanwhile, chips would serve as action points, as suggested before. Essentially, the higher number of chips staked would be akin to the strength of the action taken and the higher risk involved.

>more to come...

>Viro Posciti
Sounds like a great name for a gunslinger, captcha!

>>14846593
As for suit abilities, I believe that while powerful, they should only be used as an all-in situation. Some ideas are as follows:

>Clubs
"Knockdown" - Overwhelm your opponent by sheer force. Forces one target to blindly call you, essentially skipping his turn. If the target has more chips than you, he calls your all-in, but can still fold later on. If he has less, he goes into a Showdown with you.

>Hearts
"Precision" - Strike in a well-aimed spot to debilitate an opponent. Forces one target to spend twice the chips needed to call, raise or post blinds during the rest of the hand. The target may still fold without penalty, however.

>Diamonds
"Quickdraw" - Draw your shooting irons before anyone else. The user is able to declare an all-in during the hand out of turn, thus activating the ability. Betting continues from the user rather than from the position before the all-in was declared.

>Spades
"Showoff" - Turn the tide in your favor with fancy shooting. The user may choose to draw another card to replace either one of his hole cards or one of the community cards up until the end of betting after the river card has been placed onto the board.

>>14846593
>>14846600

Yay! The thread lives!

Also, the use of Poker Chips would make this even better. Just sayin'.

>>14846632
Already addressed that.
>Meanwhile, chips would serve as action points, as suggested before.

Now then, I'm sure each gun and Gun would have their share of individual abilities that would require minimum bets of X, Y, and Z to trigger.

>>14846648

With modifiers based on stats, and perhaps abilities if you're using a card...

>>14846897
Hmmm, let's not get too detailed here with modifiers. But perhaps if your face-up card is the same suit as your Gun, you can minimum-bet your abilities for less (not including raises). And holy cow if your card is the same as your Gun (suit AND rank), then Lady Luck really IS on your side! Maybe no cost abilities unless raised upon?

>>14846919

That sounds fair. The chance of it happening is really rare, but the effect is equally astounding.

>>14846942
Ayup. Those serious about the fight will press the low- and no-cost ability users into raises. That tactic can also make for some interesting (if cheap) bluffs.

that you Jordan?

Deadlands was better.

>>14846997
eh. it was also professionally made, by paid authors. so you have to take that into consideration.

this is made by wanderers of /tg/, who use their own free time to further their own ideas for the good of others.

so which is truly "better"?

>>14847105
>>14846997
Yeah, I'm well aware that Deadlands is better, and that this is still a work in progress. LOTS of progress. If you have any suggestions of how to make it better, by all means let us know!

>>14847120

I think there should be special rules for Mexican standoffs. Similar to the Aces and Eights method, with a template to see where your bullet goes.

Pic related

>>14847232
Well, heads-up poker is a whole 'nother beast, so I'm sure we can bang out some special rules for that. As for bullet placement, I'm personally more concerned about doing that via narrative and Dealer-fiat (depending on the effectiveness of players' actions, so forth and so on) rather than for players to have to keep a chart with all their differently-located wounds and such on them, really.

>>14847247

Having a small body outline on a character sheet wouldn't be the end of the world. Just Head, Body, and each Arm and Leg. Precision is key, depending on what your enemy is doing, or perhaps what the purpose of your mission is (hostages?), so adding in that small feature may be useful for expanding the game's focus.

Could always be optional, too.

Oh man, I fucking loved Wild Cards when it was being worked on. Never really got around to running it because the rules never seemed to fully develop, and I've been dead for homebrew except when I'm drunk and post things that are too terrible to end.

Here's an idea; take a look at Malifaux for ideas behind triggers. It uses cards suits to determine if certain abilities go off, and could serve as a good base to show how things work off.

Rather than making a bunch of 'universal' triggers, add in the option to take a couple of triggers based off of certain suits. It helps distinguish characters, and the more esoteric the suit combo, the better the trigger.

Not really sure where people are going with this, but I've got a friend who has at least done statistical analysis on this sort of stuff. If I can get the data, it can at least give a rough power guideline according to probability and such.

>>14847273
I suppose. I guess I'm a bit biased against games that have a lot of things to keep track of. As a rule of thumb, if it requires more than one sheet for keeping track of a character (items and story notes excluded, of course) it's too much errata. Then again, narrativist/simulationist dilemma at play here.

>>14847276
I was kinda going into that direction with the suits, though not to the extent of combinations of triggers. Maybe use the face-up suits as a sort of keyword that can be associated with a character's existent set of abilities. For instance, a face-up club makes abilities stronger, diamonds make them faster, etc.

As for the statistician, when we get more data together, I'm sure we would love a probability rundown and such. I'm sure he can bang out probabilities for hands and the like according to the rules of Texas Hold 'em.

>>14847232
I think Aces & Eight is an incredible system (albeit rules heavy) but no one in my group wants to play it.

just found my old set of poker chips. i will run the shit out of this game.

>>14847403
Heh, I still got my old poker chips too. Definitely gonna run a playtest or such sometime after I move next week.

>>14847333
Would be a good way to do it.

Honestly, I'm a bit of a crunch nerd, so I figure coming up with some more esoteric triggers as a sort of 'add-on' for people who like that sort of thing could work. As a bar game, the current idea of d6s and cards is a great idea.

The quickest system I've got in my head right now is that everybody has a hand in reserve before actions. Flip over a card to give yourself an action for simple stuff, run a game of hold 'em for a longer one, and you can use your drawn cards to change either your cards or the ones on the field.

It's just an idea, but like I've said, I'm mostly a Malifaux player these days, so I spend a lot of time shuffling cards and damning probability.

>>14847459
I was originally thinking about using simple stat vs TN mechanics for smaller conflicts, maybe with poker chips being able to be spent as modifiers to leave it as narrativist as possible while giving the players some semblance of control and influence over the situation.

But I'm kinda liking the idea of cards acting as situational modifiers in the big situations. Other than the suit abilities (namely the "Showoff" ability) above, any ideas about what suits would do what on the field?

>>14847509
What do you mean "on the field"? You mean in-combat stats?

Clubs = Strength/Power
Hearts = Accuracy
Diamonds = Speed
Spades = Luck (Charisma in battle? Hmm)

>>14847556
I don't know. Was kinda throwing something out there. Perhaps the player's face-up cards trigger their abilities while the suits on the community cards determine the conflict's environment. The more of one suit on the board, the stronger that component is.

For instance, the flop comes out two clubs and a heart. Attacks seem much stronger, but also the ability of foes to shrug off damage in some cases (two clubs). Though with the right shot in the right place, it can easily tip the scale of battle in your favor (heart).

Throwing gunplay to the wall and seeing what sticks.

>>14847509
I'm liking the suits, but right now, they seem a little combat-related. You might want to make them a bit more general; this makes the system a little more robust, and gives you the option of using them for non-combat stuff, which help immensely.

Another idea that might be good or bad, depending; make the effect so that it essentially 'removes' the card from your ability to use it. You're essentially taking a bit of a risk by lowering your playable cards and relying on the stuff dealt by the dealer to get you through. It makes them a little less likely to be used.

Overall, my preference would be for each player to use their own deck, never mixing it in with the GM's stuff, but that really skews the probabilities and makes it a little weird-looking to play. It does allow for the "play hold 'em, keep your hand in reserve" without draining the deck used for environmental reserve.

Make the chips that you've got be the measure of the character. The more you wager and the more chips, the better your character is doing. When you've got less, you need to act conservatively and hide. When you've got a lot, you can be confident. This makes the need for stats go down quite a bit.

It'd take a bit of playtesting to see what a good balance could be, but might work as a decently robust system. I think the goal is to have a game with as much ease-of-play and public enjoyment as possible, so I'm trying to think of stuff that works for that.

>>14847634
Well, since I was saving the really big hands for things such as combat, that was the first thing that came to mind. I'm sure we all can make some more abilities that would make the game a lot more well-rounded and robust, as you say.

As for removing the cards used for the abilities, I can see where you're going with it. I'll keep that in mind when I'm coming up with more ideas.

About the chips, you're reminding me of what we came up with for Kicks, where your action points are both used for doing things and also your health. Simply put, you run out of action points and you can't do shit anymore until you get more. The same can obviously apply here.

This is obligatory music to set the mood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYLpYu2EQxg

Skimming over the talk of implementing a poke based set, a very simple system could be deal the player preforming the task X amount of cards, where X is 1-5 depending on the skill rank. Deal five cards facedown to this player also. Creating a total hand of five cards, the player must beat a target score to succeed at the action. The lower the skill, the more wildcards you have to take. Very basic, and probably needs expansion, but could work.

>>14847856
I see where you're going with this idea, but that would be way more shuffling than anything else. Perhaps make that more like blackjack and work from there? Make a skill rank number = how many hits a player can take for each hand. Also, keep that mode relegated for small and moderate scenarios.

>>14847856
expaning slightly on this if anyone is interested; Special abilities granted by the Guns or spending 'chips' could allow you to bump up one of your cards to the next numerical value, or swap out one of the overturned cards for a random wildcard from the deck. Specific bonuses could be applied, if your Gun is the Six of Clubs you can spend 3 'chips' and bump every club suit card up by one, or swap one non-suited card for a suited card of similar value

Obviously something awesome should happen if you have a flush, or trips, or two-pair. Something like that.

>>14847914
I'm afraid that I personally don't like the idea, though the idea to swap out cards for cards still in the deck is a possible ability.

>>14847914
>>14847856
if you are dealt the card matching your Gun, suit and number, its like natural 20.

>>14847952
Thats cool, Im kind of just brainstorming because I loved the Wild Guns homebrew, Im listening to >>14847705 on repeat and I want a handy way to play games with my mates when we cant find our dice. Which is usually.

>>14847981
Well if you come up with a way, definitely playtest it and see what happens.

Will do. And I hope Wildcards gets some more love, cause its a fantastic setting.

bump.

I'm pooped; just got back from work.

What did I miss?

>>14848701
Just got back from dinner myself. I think you missed a great deal with trying to combine poker and RPG. Kinda sketchy, but I think we're on to something. Your take is always appreciated.

>>14848751
My brain's far too fried to make an in-depth analysis right now; from what I can see, though, people are bandying about different rulesets for different card games (such as Blackjack and TH'E). Am I correct?

>>14848920
Seems it to me. Great ideas, though they all need some development.

Definitely.
>>14847856 here, was just musing on difficulty checks on the mechanic I was postulatin' the mean value of five cards is 32.lotsofunimportantnumbers, so i was thinking 32 would be considered a normal difficulty check. 40/45 for difficult. I played about a bit, and managed to get 45 around 9 times out of twenty. 25 is an easy check.

>>14848974
I still am against just adding up cards for a TN without some sort of strategic element. The whole beauty of poker (to me, at least) is that there are a number of possible hands, each with their own probabilities of being made. But the game hinges on psychology and strategy than it does on sheer numbers and probabilities. To me, that fits in perfectly with the weird-west-meets-barely-steampunk-meets-Americana setting of WC.

Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poker_probability#Frequency_of_5-card_poker_hands

In any case, off to bed with me. Hope to see the thread here tomorrow!

Continuing on Blackjack WC...
>>14841918
>>14842756
>>14842773
To make it clear, the suit bonuses are based on the Card(s) being carried.

The reason why I threw out the blackjack idea: It's simpler to learn when compared to poker which would make it less daunting to players who aren't familiar with the card games and/or roleplaying. The house can represent enemies and their difficulty as a set of 1, 2, 3, etc cards as in normal blackjack (you don't need to take cards out of the deck to determine their power, just roll them out and write them down, then play normal cards on top of them like a normal house hand).

>father. Parchoh
Sounds like a good man, captcha. What Card's he got?

How about Blackjack for noncombat event resolution, and poker for combat?

>>14840375
is actually my favorite idea so far, at least in terms of feel. It reminds me quite a bit of Dogs in the Vinyard. The raising of the stakes concept is perfect, and doing the entire combat as a single hand rather than a hand per round gets rid of the time issue that is most of the problem with the poker idea.

Bamp

Good morning y'all.

>>14852130
I think I like that idea. Blackjack is a much quicker game, so that can be used for noncombat event resolution with a significant chance of failure, while poker can still be used for combat and other major survival situations.

Mid-morning bump. I'm sitting here and I'm trying to think of general functions the abilities can do in both the blackjack and poker variants. I can think of a few off hand.

>Skipping others' turns
>Getting extra turns
>Performing actions out-of-turn
>Forcing actions on others
>Forcing higher bets on others
>Getting lower bets on self
>Trading cards/actions

Any other ideas?

>>14855084

Retrieving chips you are about to lose from the betting pool (not sure about the fluff exactly, something about survivability or something)
Forcing a negative onto anyone who chooses to fold rather than match your raise.
I think you said something about using fewer chips to raise than the raise was.
Folding with less/no consequence under certain situations/some other limiting factor.
Straight up taking someone's chips (assaulting them in a way that folding cannot protect them from)

>>14855244
>Retrieving chips you are about to lose from the betting pool (not sure about the fluff exactly, something about survivability or something)
Hmmm, perhaps like a folding ability. Maybe associate it with Spades/Trickplay. Essentially continuing the fight from behind cover. The fight ain't going to well for your gunslinger, so he need a moment to collect himself before going on.

>Forcing a negative onto anyone who chooses to fold rather than match your raise.
A negative? Like a status effect, or losing more chips from a fold. Please explain.

>I think you said something about using fewer chips to raise than the raise was.
Yeah, kind of an ability that imbues lower action cost/betting for the character the effect is placed upon.

>Folding with less/no consequence under certain situations/some other limiting factor.
As in getting all your betted chips back after the fold?

>Straight up taking someone's chips (assaulting them in a way that folding cannot protect them from)
Now why didn't I think of that?

Bump

Morning, /tg/. I'm up and about now, and feeling much better than yesterday. Currently browsing through the rules you all were working on.

Hmm... You've all been pretty busy since I last saw this stuff.

Apparently my brain is still too fried to conceptualize everything. Gonna go take another nap.

>>14856771
Lol.

Consider yourself bumped, Wild cards thread.

We had a group going on. Since then half the party left and the other half are now playing something else.

Sucks, but what can you do.

Allright, and back. So, since we're talking about adapting blackjack and poker to this, do we need to change anything about character generation? I know we need to come up with a slew of abilities now, but will that affect what we already came up with?

>>14858757

Shouldn't. Assigning the suit (like the original rules) to each trait couldn't hurt though, if not for actual function at least for aesthetics.

>>14859151
I was actually thinking about that, especially if we're going to use blackjack for non-battle/minor conflict resolution. I'm working up some revisions to the ruleset I presented earlier to accommodate that.

It may take a while.

Here's some ideas I jotted down. They're much like that in the guide I linked to earlier in the thread.

>And here we go!

CHARACTER STATS:

>Clubs/Strength (STR): Strength, endurance, health, immunity
>Diamonds/Speed (SPD): Movement, agility, evasion, reflexes
>Hearts/Smarts (SMR): Knowledge, wisdom, perception, learning
>Spades/Savvy (SVY): Charisma, common sense, conversation, appropriateness

Points are distributed depending on the experience level of the character as follows:
>Novice (6 points): Completely new to the life of a gunslinger
>Student (7 points): Has the idea, but not the techniques
>Apprentice (8 points): Has nominal experience, but still needs refinement
>Journeyman (9 points): Can hold his own in a fight, but can always learn more
>Practitioner (10 points): Better than most in a fight, but not better than others
>Professional (11 points): Has a reputation on the field, but still not the best
>Expert (12 points): A force to be reckoned with, surpassed only by few
>Master (13 points): A vast wealth of knowledge, with the knack to pass it on
>Legend (14 points): Completely devoted to the fight with no peer

These stats are primarily used for environmental and social checks in which there are possibilities for both success and failure.

>>14859787
GUN STATS:
>Clubs/Power (PWR): The ability to hit things with tremendous force
>Diamonds/Quickness (QCK): The ability to quickly draw and shoot
>Hearts/Accuracy (ACC): The ability to hit things where you want them
>Spades/Trickplay (TRK): The ability to perform difficult shots

Points for these stats are distributed according to the type of gun it is:
>Slugtosser (6 points): The basic of the basic, not even a respectable imitation
>Smythe (8 points): A quality product, but still no match for a Gun
>True Gun (10 points): The genuine article, the stuff of legends
>Royalty (12 points): The rarer Guns of the higher ranks, truly fearsome
>Ace (14 points): Even rarer Guns, the absolute paragons of the suits
>Joker (16 points): The most fearsome of them all, the crown jewels of the Guns

>>14859802
CHIPS
True to the Wild West, Wild Cards uses card games for conflict resolution rather than dice. As such, poker chips (or some agreed upon equivalent) are used for wagers. But they do not only serve as a wagering tool, but also as a measure of a character’s ability to act as well as his well-being. Do too much at one time and you may not be able to go too far in the long run. But strike it rich at the right time and you’ll be on a roll!

All characters begin with 100 chips every scene, regardless of what experience level of what equipment they may have on them at the time.

MINOR CONFLICTS
Conflicts are categorized into three groups: Minor conflicts; Normal conflicts; and Battle. Minor conflicts are those that can either be resolved merely through storytelling among the players and the Dealer, or those that have no chance of either success OR failure. In the case of a Minor conflict that actually has a chance of success AND failure, it is simply a test between a character’s relative stat to the conflict and a target number assigned by the Dealer in terms of difficulty. If the character’s stat exceeds the target number, the test succeeds. If not, the character can choose to spend poker chips (“chips” from here on out) to bridge the gap between his stat and the target number, each chip equaling one stat point in such a case.

>>14859811
NORMAL CONFLICTS
Normal conflicts are usually non-battle conflicts that has a chance of both success AND failure, as well as having conditions which the characters can heavily influence through the use of Abilities. Resolution is done through a game of blackjack. All participants (the players as well as the Dealer) reveal one of the two cards in their hands face-up before looking at their cards. The face-up card’s suit serves as a modifier of sorts, allowing the character to bet half of the normal amount of chips for Abilities related to the suit’s stat (clubs for STR, diamonds for SPD, hearts for SMR, and spades for SVY). The Dealer also only gets one hand, even if he is at command of a number of opponents or obstacles in the conflict.

Other than the effects which the Abilities may imbue upon the characters and the Dealer, the game is played exactly the same as regular blackjack. All players ante 2 chips and may choose to bet more if they wish to use Abilities during the rest of the game. From there, the players may choose to hit or to stand in turn order starting from those with the highest SPD to the lowest.

Each turn is also narrated in relation to one or more of the face-up suits of the player’s hand. For instance, Slick has a two of spades face-up in his hand already and chooses to hit. He receives a five of clubs, giving him the option to narrate his turn in terms of approaching the conflict by his Savvy or Strength stats. Bear in mind that Slick also needs to keep the ranking of those stats in mind when narrating – he may not have too much in the Strength stat, but a lot in the Savvy, which may lead to a bit of intimidation, even if he really doesn’t have much to back it up with.

>>14859820
The player may choose to double down if he holds either a total of ten or eleven in his original two cards. In such a case, the second card is revealed and the player doubles the original bet. Narratively, the character is seen showing a potential flash of brilliance, willing to put it all on the line with his stake at resolving the conflict.

Finally, there is splitting, which can be chosen if the original two cards are of the same value. In this case, the second card is revealed and split from each other and given an additional face-down card each. The player then stakes the same bet as the original hand unto the second hand, the player in control of playing both hands on his turn. Narratively, the character is perhaps proposing a complex solution to the conflict, or just using all his skills at once to succeed.

Just like in casino blackjack, the Dealer must end his hand if either he goes over twenty-one or achieves a total or seventeen or more. When the Dealer ends his hand, the winners are those who beat or match the Dealer’s total, having their bets returned to them. The player(s) with the highest hand overall (including blackjacks) wins chips equal to their bet from the Dealer to be used later on in the scene. If there is at least one winner among the players, the conflict is considered resolved, the more winners meaning a higher state of success.

And that's all for now. I have the feeling that some of the modifications I made for blackjack are rather clunky and need outside suggestions to really get it where we would want it. Suggestions are always welcome!

And a friendly nighttime bump to keep it alive.

>>14859811
Why 100 chips? Does it get reset every fight? Shouldn't that be stat based somehow?

Chips as hitpoints AND action points was bugging me, but then I realized that "hitpoints" are usually abstracted that far anyway. Running out of chips means you finally got shot for real, instead of action-movie lucky breaks like a bullet through the hat or grazing your leg.

>>14860970
I don't know why I chose it. Also, should have defined 'scene' as a series of events including battles and non-battle conflicts. That part can always be fiddled with after some playtesting.

As for the chips, that's exactly what I was going for. Gunslingers (at least those who are the main characters) are ridiculous in terms of durability in the Wild West and should be treated as such in the game I think. When you run out of chips, it doesn't always mean that you're dead. You can just be incapacitated in some way, or otherwise seriously debilitated I'd like to think.

>>14862173
I would think all chips lost means you're dead. The movie gunslingers don't go All In until the final scene. The tension becomes real; EVERYTHING is on the line.

I've been wanting to play Wild cards for so long it's ridiculous. I don't know what the card game crunch is, but what about a blackjack version. Obviously the objective isn't necessarily to get a 21, as that would be an automatic success. I was thinking along the lines of having DC's set up and your card would be your modifier for a certain DC. I wouldn't be able to do the crunch right at the moment though, seeing as though I am freaking tired as hell from work, but it doesn't seem too bad.

Oh, so the rules on 1d4chan aren't really finished.

>>14866200
It's more that they're simplified than finished, and the rules being discussed here are different