Nope.

Apocalypse. Field multiple codices. 3k pts and up.

Aren't there detatchment rules? If I recall correctly there used to be when I played (which was admittedly years ago) that let you field units outside the normal ToE. If you met the units requirement with your main army you could set up a sort of side army to act as on field allies.

If I remember correctly this was how superheavy units used to work. They didn't use normal HQ/Elite/Troops/Etc. slots but could be instead added on to an army as an ally after all the other unit requirements were met. I don't think this rule was restricted to superheavy units either.

Then again I'm probably wrong.
Then again, maybe not.

>>14739367

Uh, there's multiple questions in there.

Can Space Marines use tanks (and which kinds)?

Can you field mixed armies?
>I'm going to assume that the no was referring to this if nothing else, that mixed armies are banned entirely.

Could you field a fluff mixed army that isn't mixed crunch? Like if you had two smaller squads that used the same codex but were fluffed as different chapters.

I mean, it could have been a no to all, but I'd like some clarification if you would be so kind.

Apocalypse games
Because if 2 chapters of space marines are being deployed, then shits gotten real

Yeah, it's not possible. You can field Sisters/Guard or Sisters/Marines, but that's it. Even with your opponent's permission it's kinda dickish, the balance in the game isn't great but points costs are supposed to keep things fair within the codex. I think, I have no idea.

>>14739398
>Can Space Marines use tanks (and which kinds)?
Yes. The ones in their codex

>Aren't there detatchment rules? If I recall correctly there used to be when I played (which was admittedly years ago) that let you field units outside the normal ToE. If you met the units requirement with your main army you could set up a sort of side army to act as on field allies.

I like this

Yeah. They do that at tournaments sometimes.

>>14739394

OP here.

I've never played the table-top.

Reading some of the fluff for this army made me interested, hence the questions.

>>14739399

What if they needed something like two companies on the group, but different chapters could only spare one?

I mean, it's bad enough they need space marines at all, but it could be a less dire situation maybe?

>>14739390

What I'm getting from all this is that it wouldn't be a normal game. It would have to be either some sort of casual game where nobody cares about some of the stricter rules, or an Apocalypse game, where lots of rules just go out the window.

>>14739422

>Yes. The ones in their codex.

Are Baneblades on that list?

Sorry for all the noob-ish questions, but all my knowledge of 40k comes from WAAARD threads and like two books I've read.

>>14739408
>>14739426

So it's the exception and not the rule?

Damn.

>>14739435
> It would have to be either some sort of casual game where nobody cares about some of the stricter rules.

Only using 1 army isn't really one of the "stricter rules"
oh god my nerd rage is getting to be unbearable

>>14739456
Alright, didn't realize you were that new to it
SPACE MARINE TANKS ARE
Predators
Rhinos (Their APC)
Razorbacks (Another APC, but with big guns on it)
and my big metal babies
THE LAND RAIDERS IN THREE DELICIOUS FLAVORS
Vanilla
Redeemer (Has big flamethrowers)
Crusader (Has way too many guns)

Of course, real men get all their armored support from Dreadnoughts

Baneblades are an Imperial Guard unit, and even then they can only be used in Apocalypse games

>>14739458

I was thinking it would be more like using parts of multiple armies to make one army.

Or using multiple armies that add-up to the points(I think that's how you measure size/strength) or the other guy's forces.

>oh god my nerd rage is getting to be unbearable

Sorry about that.

Like I said, my working knowledge of 40k involves points that people can't agree on (like space marines having children) and the fact that their tech-support is a galaxy spanning faction into-itself.

>>14739458

If the game's for fun why give a shit what codices and how many points between them are being used. Why rage at that, it's on a person to person basis. If you're not down, look for another game. I have no problem playing someone using whatever mix they want for kicks. Not at all the time, but if I didn't I'd decline and check out what else was around.

>>14739480

Alright.

Question: Could Space Marines use a Baneblade in an apocalypse game? I mean, 'technically' it would belong to someone else...

Like I said, from the fluff it seems to make sense. I mean, I can't see a reason for multiple chapters and/or other armies like the guard or the sisters to NOT fight together.

From what I've seen from /tg/ talk though, crunch and fluff don't always agree.

>>14739481
Well if everyone is down for it than whatever, I like sticking with one faction at a time.

>>14739497
WE CAN ALL STILL SING COOM-BAY-YA or however the hell it's spelled

>>14739481

Apocalypse games you can field any units, they're fun, but take longer. In a casual game you can play anyone with whatever you want if they're cool with it. But a lot of people and any tournaments will ask that you stick to one codex.

Try the new Grey Knights codex. With grey knights you have space marines, and with an inquisitor you get a retinue which can be full of marines. You get land raiders and dreadnoughts too.


The other option is to play sisters allied with marines, and using stormtroopers. Sisters are a little harder to play though, and their codex is quite outdated. I'd say Grey Knights is a better pick.

Or you could play vanilla marines with land raiders out the ass, and then when you get a large enough force of them play apocalypse games with baneblades and leman russ and huge guardsmen waves and whatever you want.

Fluff wise it's all up to you. Play marines codex and say each squad is whatever you want, you can't use the different chapter codices with this but you can assign different chapters to different roles and it would work great.

>>14739507

In Apocalypse you can mix any codices. ANY.

So your army can have baneblades and land raiders, and penitent engines, and valkyries, and orks, and whatever the hell you want.

Just fluff it up, you can take any unit from any codex.

>>14739507
I've never understood why Space Marines aren't allowed to use Baneblades, fluff-wise.

Well if a Space Marine commander showed up and demanded that an Imperial General give him a Baneblade, that General would be honored that one of the Emperor's Angels needed his help. It doesn't always work that way, but it shouldn't be a problem.

Again, baneblades are only allowed in fuckhuge games because it would be unfair to bring them otherwise.

I SEE THE SERPENTS AND I COME.

Anyway, let's what- Oh. Not a chapter talk.

>>14739360

Pretty sure you can't kid.

Reading the rest of the thread seems like more knowledgeable people agree.

>>14739507
>>14739481

>Like I said, from the fluff it seems to make sense. I mean, I can't see a reason for multiple chapters and/or other armies like the guard or the sisters to NOT fight together.

They'd be allied, certainly. They might not all be under the direct control of the same Commanders.

One thing you have to realize about the Wargame, is that for the most part it's skirmishes and small battles. Sure there's all these OTHER Imperial factions running around, but they tend to stay in their own groups. Exceptions to the rule include games with huge point totals and/or apocolypse, but as other have pointed out all bets are off by that point.

Anybody cares about the Serpents I'll be chilling and taking questions if you care. Wargame crunch isn't my strong suit, and I'll leave that to you guys.

>>14739541
Is there 40k-scale Baneblade kits? (As opposed to Apoc-scale) I know Forgeworld makes Titans, but do they make superheavy tanks too? It would be nice to have a fuckhuge tank to tower over all my IG.

>>14739590
No, sorry.
The thing about Baneblades is that they have all sorts of special rules and 3 "structure points" which means you have to blow it up 3 times to actually destroy it... I think- someone want to confirm?

To put it into perspective, Space Marines can field Thunderhawks in Apoc games- they cost 900 points and use up 3 slots in the Force Organization Chart. Land Raiders cost 240-250 points, predators cost 85 points (before upgrades) and Razorbacks cost 45 points.

Apocalypse games are supposed to be nuts.

Of course, if your friends agree you can do anything.

>>14739541

>I've never understood why Space Marines aren't allowed to use Baneblades, fluff-wise.

Probably because 'officially' only come from two planets.

Then the Space Marine Chapters tend to make and maintain their own gear.

We sidestepped that issue as far as the Ice Serpents are concerned because we own a forge-world, and we might very well have stolen the designs if we didn't get martian approval.

>>14739540

If/when I get the money, I'm tempted to make an entire chapter army. Baneblades, land-raiders, chimeras, hell throw in the Sisters if they're really getting a new codex next edition.

Actually on that note, GW should throw some sort of variant rules for mixed codex armies.

I have no idea if they do that now or not, since I don't play the game. Serpents tempt me though, and it's not like I won't have a million codices to choose from if I go SPESS MAHRINES.

>>14739628

If only I had money.

And lived in an area where people gave two shits about 40k.

So....

Thread seems over as far as OP goes.

Anybody wanna talk Ice Serpents?

>>14739689

Go ahead.

I kinda like what you have so far. Even if I don't really understand some things....

>>14739689
Sure, give me the run down

>>14739698

Alrightey then.

I'll post what I've got so far...

First Company: Storm Wardens, Led by Chapter Master Alexander Constantine.
>Terminators and Elite Veteran troops. Masters Of Close-Quarters combat.

Second Company: Sons of Glacialis Elle, led by Captain Theseous Montoren
>Almost entirely Heavy Armor and Heavy Armor support.

Third Company: Winter's Hammer, Lead by Captain Herlad Saintson
>Siege Warfare specialists. Second only to the Imperial Fists.

Fourth Company: Ice Fangs, led by Captain Neco Radix
>Specialized hunter-killer units. Lots of specialized drones and servitors.

Fifth Company: Hail Storm, led by Captain Animus Frigus
>Advance charge deep-strikers. Favor high-mobility bikes in support of the absolutely horrifying Scout-Variant Bane-Blade.

Six Company: Space Knights, led by Chaplin-Captain Galeus 'Fumbles' Cycanus
>Special reserve and support roles. Generally not on the front-line, due to developmental errors in the Initiation process.

Seventh Company: Frost Zephyrs, (Scouts) Lead by Scout Captain Dertum Foscali

Eighth Company: Home Guard (Permanent Garrison/recruitment) Led by Apothecary-Captain Infragilis Moenia

Ninth Company (Librarians) led by Brother Chief librarian Novus Inimicus

Tenth Company (Dreadnaughts) led by Certo Pugnaculum the Unshakable.

Eleventh Company (Artillery Shock and Awe specialists): Storm Serpants led by Battle-Captain Reboare Vigoro

Battle Cry: Ignis Glaciesque (Fire and Ice)

I can post the Rules for Deathwatch (since the random generator was like 90% of the inspiration) later if you guys want.

>>14739698
I'm happy to explain stuff, working night shifts has my internal clock all shot to shit

>>14739718
>Scout-Variant Bane-Blade.
I came

>>14739718

Chapter Fluff had us founded because one of the High Lords of Terra decided that some sort of vague threatening prophecy meant they needed a new chapter of Space Marines.

Originally a Ultras successer chapter, we decided to buck the rules and go into unique chapter territory for some reason. Once we got there, we ended up with NO assault marines, LOTS of armor (like almost every squad has a Bane-blade or Land raider to call their own level), a bunch of tech-marines (makes sense, we do after all have a lot of tech-stuff), enough librarians and Dreadnoughts that they have their own companies (and deploy along side regular ones as well).

One of my friends pointed out that the reason the Ultras had so many successors was because 90% of the loyalist members of the traitor legions were folded into the Ultras before the Space Marines we divided into chapters.

Looking at the fluff we already had, we looked scarily like the Luna Wolves in both colors and spirit.

So, we rolled with that.

>>14739727

Yeah, that was a joke coming in part from the fact that we ended up with so many tanks and NO Assault Marines, we decided that we earned our siege breaker reputation from loading Baneblades, Landraiders, Rhinos, etc. into special drop-pods and riding those into enemy lines.

Imagine being one of the dudes they're fighting in that scenario: You're there in a trench, the suddenly drops pods land everywhere. Not only are they filled with freaking SPcae Marines, they're Space Marines in fucking Baneblades.

Because for some reason we have a lot of those.

The Scout Variant was basically they removed about half the armor and made it go twice as fast. Due to the drastically reduced weight, recoil can be used for pin-point handling.

>>14739754
I love the concept, I wish I knew more about the Traitor Legions

Only sort of similar idea is the Tyrant's Legion, which is Guard / SM. But the list blows.

>>14739781
To make up for no assault marines you should load your normal marines into Whirlwinds

>Six Company: Space Knights, led by Chaplin-Captain Galeus 'Fumbles' Cycanus

One of the running jokes from the first thread was there was a guy who kept getting shitty dice-rolls.

So I named him Brother-Captain Fumbles, and told him that for his repeated failures he got to watch the special-ed Marines.

This was expanded on later in that when most marines aren't 100% perfect, and this is discovered when they're part-way into the process they often develop some sort of odd mutations, or mentally retard, etc.

In most chapters, these people become servitors. In the Ice Serpents, since they tend to disreguard the Codex a lot, and learned recently of thier origens let them try to become full space marines. The ones who don't come out of the process good enough to be a 'Real' Space Marine, get folded into the sixth company on the logic that if nothing else they can be harvested for gene-seed in a couple decades.

As a result of these somewhat lenient practices, Ice Serpents numbers are swelling a bit beyond what the Codex allows, and they seem to have no intention of stopping.

>>14739781
I just picture a bunch of marines scratching their heads trying to figure out where the hell all these baneblades came from, then wedging them into drop pods.

And i'm out, good luck ya'll

Name one of the baneblades, or maybe a battle-barge, HIS BROSTORM

>>14739788

They expand a lot on some things in the Horus Heresy books.

Technically the 'Luna Wolves' were Horus' chapter, before they became the Sons of Horus, and later The Black Legion (currently lead by Abbadon).

>>14739805

I want this to not exist, yet all I can think to ask is 'can it fire terminators' and 'is it legal'?

>>14739811

Another thing that sets the Chapter apart from others is the semi-open doors policy. Part of this is a necessity, due to the lack of servitors.

They have many people from their home-planet of Glacialis Elle doing tasks like cooking and cleaning for the chapter, in exchange for doing things like helping train local military.

Since they chose a shrine-world that is also more or less a Death-World (Due in part to the Saint who first colonized the planet, who did things like import Finrinsian Sea-Dragons for 'sport fishing'.) they share their Fortress Monistary 'The Pillar of Unity' with a local order of the Sisters Hospitaller: the Order of the Frozen Saint.

Hey, who wants to help finish rolling up the forge-world we started?

We only got part-way through it before the thread died.

>>14739878
I'm here. Usually I only go 40k for the Orks, but Ice Serpents is okay too.
Tell me which dice I should roll.

Our planet is a FORGE WORLD, one of the great technological centers of the Imperium! It is of ADVANCED technological development! This makes it one of the most advanced and powerful forges in the Imperium, able to make any tech the Imperium possesses!

Our star is a MEDIUM star, much like Terra's.

Adeptas on the planet:

Adeptus Arbites: Slight. Specific duties; not involved in wider planetary affairs.
Adeptus Astra Telepathica: Slight.
Adeptus Astronimica: Token. For administrative purposes only.
Adeptus Mechanicus: Dominating: One of, if not the, most powerful and influential forces on the planet.
Administratum: Small. Involved, but quietly and unobtrusively.
Adeptus Ministorum: None.
Inquisition: Token.

Next comes Size and Axial Tilt.

2d100, and no hidden dice please.

>>14739900

Uh... Still there man?

rolled 21, 26 = 47

>>14739958
Yus. Just a bit slow on load times.

>>14739980

Right then, it's a small planet, with a noticeable tilt.

Let's throw out 3d100 and get the next bits done in a batch.

rolled 63, 46, 66 = 175

>>14739997
Pew Pew Pew!

>>14740017

I now need 15d10, and a d5.

rolled 9, 2, 6, 1, 7, 9, 3, 8, 4, 5, 10, 8, 4, 5, 9 = 90

>>14740045
Zip zap zillyhoo

rolled 3 = 3

>>14740045
And-a-one, and-a-two, and-a-three...

>>14740062

The day is 25 standard Terran Hours.

Even though the day is slightly longer than on Terra, the year is shorter: only 325 Terran days. Or 312 local.

>>14740077

There are also three moons.

Moving right along....

Alright, next easy to figure out batch needs 5d100

rolled 93, 6, 76, 15, 41 = 231

>>14740090
Ka-pow!

>>14740102

Our Gravity on this planet is heavy. Half again Terra's.

The Atmosphere is quite normal. Breathable, hell, for a forge world, it's fucking CLEAN and FRESH.

It's rather moist, foggy. Not enough so that it's an aquatic planet, but there's regular snow and fairly decent humidity.

True to the Ice Serpent's name, the planet is CHILLY. Not the sort of frozen hell they call home, but regularly below freezing. Warm periods where the outside world thaws is rare, but not unheard of.

Now we need three more d100 for types of Terrain.

Let's add two more to that for the next bit, so 5d100 please.

rolled 77, 54, 99, 96, 75 = 401

>>14740166
I am a genie, your wish is my command!

>>14740191

Caves, flat rocks, and cliffs.

Due to the amount of canyons, The Cult Mechanicus discovered that the planet was VERY rich in minerals, and the lack of any local life meant they could do pretty much whatever they wanted without worrying about the local ecosystems getting in the way.

Since this was in our space, they agreed to be governed by the Ministorum/us and make life plesent enough for the locals in order to maintain our favor.

The population is fucking insane. 3d10 billion people call this place home. Let fly the dice.

rolled 3, 10, 5 = 18

>>14740247
Let loose the juice!

>>14740277

18 billion people live here.

Holy.

SHIT.

Alright, local military time.

58d10 total.

I think it caps at 25 dice per-post.

rolled 4, 1, 2, 9, 1, 8, 5, 4, 5, 1, 6, 5, 8, 3, 4, 9, 10, 6, 10, 1, 1, 5, 8, 7, 1 = 124

>>14740303
First batch of rolls

rolled 9, 1, 9, 7, 3, 1, 9, 6, 10, 10, 9, 7, 7, 3, 5, 5, 5, 7, 2, 3, 9, 1, 4, 5, 4 = 141

>>14740303
Second batch of rolls.

rolled 2, 7, 7, 6, 8, 8, 3, 4 = 45

>>14740303
And the final eight.

>>14740335
>>14740317
>>14740323

Alright, it's going to take me a minute to get this sorted out....

Wouldn't it make business sense for GW to allow multiple race army set ups?

Allow the players to pick any 2 codexes to build their army from. Still need to follow FOC and points. Then people would buy multiple codexs and even more minis. It would also add infinite variety in armies.

bump, I rolled to expect... RESULTS!

Enforcers: Small, but decently equipped and trained. The local police are about what you'd expect in terms of skill and size, considering the nature of the planet.

Militia: Since service in any Military branch is volunteer, most people don't opt to go into the militia. Those that do are often surprised at the quality and efficiency of the fighting force, given that the existing budget goes to a much smaller group of individuals.

Standing Army: Local pdf isn't huge, considering the size, but there are several regiments running around. Not surprising, considering the forge-world receives the direct protection of an Astartes Chapter: Local forces only have to hold out for the weeks travel to the Chapter's home system.

Armoured Force: Fed on the table scraps of an army it supplies, the local armor is about what you'd expect. Considering that it supplies the Emperor's Angels of War, these table scraps are of immense quality and number: Bolters, Baneblades, Scout Fliers, etc. Stress testing Astartes gear has lead to a surplus of Combat servitors who know how to use it in an emergency.

Titan Force: One of the few exports that don't go into the Ice Serpent's hands, the massive factories churn out Warhound Titans almost In Mass. The relatively massive turn-over of these God-Machines are the primary reason the other Powers that be in the Imperium don't mind the Chapter owning it's own forge-world.

Private Army/Armies: Various Rogue Traders make regular stops here, the lack of local fertilizers and certain other necessities along with the output makes sure they do brisk business. Some of the more influential ones own their own local trade depots, with a small standing force to police it. Well numbered and decently trained they're allowed as long as they aid in the defense of the planet should circumstances demand it.

>Continued...

>>14740498

Naval Force: Given the fact that they're in charge of the production and maintenance of the Chapter's fleet, along with those ships sold to rogue traders and the Imperial Guard (not even counting the Trader's fleets) it's not surprising that their navy is both numerous and well-maintained.

Orbital Stations: Due to the massive merchant fleets coming and going, a multitude of orbital platforms have been built. They are also, as a side-effect of it's military importance, armed to the point where small armadas would fear it's ire.

Missile Silos (planet): Fairly large numbers. Not particularly powerful, due to fear of harming the planet's infrastructure.

Missile Silos (orbital): Part of the Orbital Station's Point Defence, along with others. Stocked with enough Ammo the scuttle a fleet twice the size of the planet it defends.

Defence Lasers: The REAL teeth of the automated defense systems, almost a half dozen lasers capable of ripping apart capital ships.

Mercenary Force: Surprisingly, a few mercenary groups, mostly human, call this planet home. Due to it's proximity to more turbulent systems, the easily obtained weapons (black market and otherwise), and the relatively safe planet make it an ideal base of operations. The Ice Serpents are well aware of their existence, and are ready to take out any group that steps outside of excepted parameters at a moment's notice.

Right then, that's three planets under our Chapter's rule.

Actually, considering the way this is laid out, it wouldn't be unreasonable to put this planet in the same system, not just a nearby one.

>>14740353

The dark truth of the matter is that nobody's accused GW of good bussness sense.

It's sort of a given that when your response to customers leaving due to rising prices is to jack up the price to compensate for the drop in sales, you're fucking up somewhere.

>>14740478

Tell me then, what do you think of the... RESULTS?

>>14740530
Verily, the... RESULTS were EXCELSIOR.

For those of you planning to create a Ice Serpents Army, Consider that it will play VERY much like a Codex Standerd Space Marines until you get to Apocolypse levels.

Then they have Baneblades, A Leviathan Command base, the feared Scout Pattern Bane-Blades, and when the next edition rolls around, you can (fluff wise) field Sisters at the same time as part of the support troops on top of the other lunacy.

In other words, I HIGHLY recommend you go with the Apocalypse games if you can.

>>14739360
I've never played 40k, but I have read some of the codexes. A piece of fluff that stood out for me was a section in the Witch Hunters codex about why Witch Hunters would fight X. I like #3 there. It looks like you'd have to make up some rules, but could you create an army for a Warboss Brainbenda that included IG units?

Quick question: does anybody know where I can get:

-Space Marines in bulk. I'm talking company sizes, for all the different varients in the command structure and special units (bike squads, terminators, librarians, dreadnaughts, etc)
-plans/bluprints for Imperial Leviathans
-Land raiders sized for 40k.

Building materials. Like the plastic paneling and shit.

Also, how tall is the average space marine? Not fluff, I mean the actual mini.

Quick bump, see if anybody knows.

Well the Witch Hunters rules allow you to add Sisters to any marine army, so it would be more than possible to have a Cannoness+Retinue sitting in a Land Raider Redeemer the Marines purchased as Heavy Support.

Or Simply a Pair of Regular Squads in Rhinos.

>>14740872
I know some online stores that sell cheaper. Only about 20%-30% discount over the price. If you're interested, try one of these two.
Miniwargaming
Waylandgames if you're European.

Great discounts, and very reliable.

>>14741101

Thanks.

In terms of cost/unit ratio, I'm half considering getting a decent sample-set for each type of unit and casting my own bits.

It wouldn't be the first time I custom-cast units, but it would be the first time with 40k stuff.

Out of curiosity, what's the average scale for 40k minis? Haven't seen any up close in a long time.