dorf
precise
scale
spear
shield

Dwarf
Spirited
Plate
Hammer
Shield

>>14713560
>>14713561

dorf power up in this bitch!
hold the line, brother!

Hobbit
Brutal
Unarmored
Empty Hand
Empty Hand

He will wreck your shit.

orc
brutal
spear
greater spear

Unless I'm completely stupid, Human with an offhand Dagger anything wins.

Orc
Brutal
Plate
Hammer
Great Weapon

fuck your shit, I'm beserk.

Elf
Precise
Unarmored
Sword
Great Weapon

The pics are all female for no particular reason, by the way. I mean, I was going to do both genders with one facing upside down, like on playing cards, but it didn't look very good. And since the women were coming out better and I was lazy...

>>14713584
You could theoretically build a human who could lose with an off-hand dagger and plate, but you'd have to work for it pretty hard.

Human
Calculated
Plate
Spear
Dagger

Human
Calculated
Plate
Flail
Dagger

All you filthy demihumans shall be wiped off this earth by our superior prowess on the field of war. 150 damage before any modifiers, and with this set up, they shall be high indeed..

Human
Precise
Plate
Sword
Dagger

Did you just not review this? +90 to prowess? You would have to outpace your enemy by over 8 in two other categories to add 9, and none of the off-handed equipment can make sufficient difference to do that.

>>14713584
>>14713608

I'm actually not sure of the outcome of this one as I've not crunched the numbers -- only eyeballed them. Generally speaking, going defensive doesn't work vs. a human with a dagger because prowess circumvents your defensive stats. So you'd need to be aggressive, but maybe throw in a net, which does affect prowess.

Human (plate)
Precise
Plate
Spear
Dagger

Y'all are fucked now.

>>14713630
>>14713639
Doesn't help that dodge ranges from -1 to 2, while deflection and absorption have no negative values.

Well, off-hand dagger humans seem to be Jace Mind Sculptor, better than all. Your best bet would probably be some sort of orc with a Net, Brutal, Plate and a flail.

Which is a shame of course, as the flail is looking like a pretty awful weapon unless you can get Great, which in this case we can't, but we need the prowess.

>>14713639
If you look at a sword vs. leather armor, having a great weapon changes your damage from 245 (7 x 7 x 5) to 367.5 (7 x 7 x 7.5). That's a difference of 122.5, which outmatches the dagger's bonus of 90. I don't how great weapon and dagger compare across the board, but it's not like it's never preferable to have the former.

>>14713694
No, my mistake, brutal is always terribad. Calculated (!?) is better for flailorc.

>>14713694
>as the flail is looking like a pretty awful weapon unless you can get Great
The flail doesn't need any help in the power department. It needs extra accuracy and speed. Given a set number of points to divide between your stats, the best allocation is even across the board. After all 5 x 5 is greater than 6 x 4 is greater than 7 x 3 and so forth.

>>14713706
Also now that I look at it, the net is just never going to be worth it. Damage will probably be in the ~300 range, so your net reduction will be about 60, which is less than GW or Dagger will give you.
Dagger is good because it's static, GW is good because it plays on idiots who don't take sufficient defense...

I'm actually wondering about Empty Hand. There's potential there, I think having your attack stats spread out is better than having them concentrated.

Elf
Calculated
Plate
Sword
Empty Hand

Should work against most things, but swords will be a major threat because of your pitiful dodge.

Well, there's always the dodge-master.

Hobbit
??? (probably spirited or calculated to increase sword's power)
Unamored
Sword (specialized)
Shield or Empty Hand (probably shield as sword's speed is already nice)

In the end, you get a dodge of 5, which is pretty fucking brutal.

>>14713733
>I think having your attack stats spread out is better than having them concentrated.
Yeah. In general, you want to kill one of your opponent's attack stats with your defenses, while keeping all of yours fairly consistent with each other.

Human
Precise
Leather
Sword
Shield

Hint: You want your final accuracy, speed, and power spread out evenly as possible.

>>14713756
Formatted:
Total Defense 2/0/2
Total Attack 9.5/8.5/9
Prowess 20

This is a pretty cool setup for a game, the equipment matchups are sophisticated.

>>14713756
>>14713805
You're already getting the elf's bonus for sword, and the sword's speed is sufficiently high without open hand, even after the penalties for calculated. Grab a shield to screw enemy accuracy, you're still going to anally dominate their dodge score no matter what, unless they go unarmored in which you ball-gag and riding crop dominate their deflection and absorption.

Unless it's a dwarf. I don't know what to think of the dwarves.

Hobbit
Calculated
Unarmored
Sword
Shield

Defense: 1 / 5 / -1
Attack: 7.5 / 7.5 / 9
Prowess: 20

>>14713783
The problem is you don't know what your opponent might dump all his attack into. Concentrating on one type of defense does so at the cost of sacrificing another, so I think there's no net gain when matched up against a variety of opponents.
Whatever race because I assume you need the equipment combo for the bonus, but if not Elf
Brutal
Leather
Axe
Shield

Spear's weird. Its speed is low and there's no easy way to take it without reducing the other two with calculated. Not bad though.

That said, Elf, Calculated, Leather, Spear, Open Hand should be able to make hamburger out of most plate-wearers because of their abysmal dodge. I'd be worried about human sword/shield builds though.

Human: +40 prowess plate / shield spec
plate: deflection 2, dodge -1, absorption 2, +20 prowess
calculated: +3 to weapon lowest stat, -1 to highest
sword: accuracy 8 (7.5), speed 8 (7.5), power 6 (9)
dagger: +90 prowess

base damage is ((7.5 x 7.5) 9) +150 = 656.25

Orc
Spirited
Scale
Flail
Great Weapon

FFFFFFUUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKK YYYYOOOOUUUU!!!!!

I think Elf/Mobile/Leather/Sword/Net would beat a human with plate and a dagger, though I'm unsure.

>>14713805
>>14713844
I stand corrected, you'll dominate dodge on anything except halflings, this guy'll put you in the ground. Having one huge defensive score is hard to predict.

>>14713913
Just human/plate/dagger still leaves some wiggle room.

Also, if you have the stats for your build, I can compare it to the various human/plate/dagger builds out there.

>>14713844
>>14713805
In a matchup, your elf edges out my dodgy hobbit, 318 to 309. Overall though, my dodge of 5 is going to completely invalidate a lot of gladiators. Anybody with a spear, hammer or flail who doesn't either cut my dodge or raise their speed is going to end up with a speed of 1, which is a kiss of death.

>>14713923
You only need one huge defensive score, in fact it's better.
If you have, say, 10 dodge, 0 absorption and 0 deflection, then a guy with 7 speed, 14 power, and 8 accuracy will go through (7-10)(14-0)(8-0) for a total of over negative 200 damage before prowess is added.
This shit is stupider than the red blue yellow green thing.

Now that I think about it, Great Weapon and Sword are a pretty good combo too. Brutal is fucking great as well, as long as your opponent has any decent armoring at all.
...might be worth getting a character with as little armor as possible and just concentrating on the attack to counter brutal.

>>14713913

The Elf
Attack 10/10/6
Defense 1/1/1
Prowess +20
Net: -20%

Human (let's say precise)
Attack 8/8/8
Defense 2/0/2
Prowess: 150

The Elf: 340
The Human: 274.5-ish

Yeah, you're right. The net subtracts a lot, 68.5 I think. Granted I'm doing this in my head, so it's probably iffy.

>>14713949
The totals from each bracket are always positive after multiplication, so you can't end up with negative damage, sadly.

It seems like it's better to concentrate on defense when possible if you are getting a good prowess bonus. By increasing your defense instead of your attack, you end up with lower damages for both gladiators, and your flat prowess bonus becomes more important. After all, 60 prowess is 20% of 300 but only 10% of 600.

I think Human/Plate/Sword/Dagger combo is the best in the game right now.

It's 8/8/6, 2/-1/2 and +150 prowess and that's without a style added.

I dunno guys, I don't think there's a surefire way to beat it.

>>14713964
Wait, how did that human end up with 0 dodge, I fucked that up. The human is actually considerably worse off than I thought. You really can't afford to have anything in the negatives unless you have something massively in the positives as well, like with a halfling.

>>14713964
How did you end up with 2 10s with a sword and mobile?

>>14713949
First, I'd love to know how you get to 10 dodge. Second, each adjusted score (attack - defense with all modifiers included) cannot go below 1. It helps to read the rules.

>OP still belives people actually used those "flails" as weapons

The only flails that actually saw real combat were agricultural tool peasants used for treshing and they were used either because the peasants were so poor they had nothing better or to dismount heavy cavalry charging war wagons during the brief time period when european warfare was changing from dudes beating other dudes with sticks to dudes shooting each other with guns. This spiky ball on chain was invented by romantic writers in 19th century because it looks cool.

>>14714001
You're right, elves only add 20% to the weapon's accuracy, that's my booboo, I calculated it as 25%. I think it should come out to about the same, though.

The human dagger combo definitely needs a good style to make it work, I'm having trouble thinking in that mode though, because prowess doesn't multiply, and that blows my mind.

>>14713844
Orc
Brutal
Leather
Sword
Great Weapon

A: 8/8/8.5
D: 1/1/1
-50% armor to opponent
Prowess +20

I deal 391 to you, you deal 338 :3
...unless Brutal's -50% actually means it IMPROVES negative armor stats, in which case I think I still win.
I honestly don't think stacking a single stat really works when it comes at the expense of another.

>>14713561
>Dwarf
>Spirited
>Plate
>Hammer
>Shield

This guy right here is onto something.

Def: 4 / -1 / 4
Atk: 7 / 6 / 10
Prow: 20

I think the 6 speed is dangerously low, though. I'd rather take an axe or sword even at the cost of a specialization bonus.

>>14714023
Brutal is... well, brutal to a defensive stacking build. I don't like Spirited, though. When would you ever need a single power and absorption?

none of you guys numbers match up to mine. am I doing it wrong?

I thought it was
your damage=(your accuracy - enemy deflection)*(your speed - enemy dodge)*(your power - enemy absorbtion)+your prowess

are we supposed to just be calculating our characters accuracy - deflection ect?

>>14714023
>...unless Brutal's -50% actually means it IMPROVES negative armor stats
-1 dodge becomes -.5 dodge, so that part actually helps your target.

>>14714041
I can't imagine either, but there must be a situation in which it's useful.

A lot of the better ones are deceptive in that they only add +1/+1 to something, but that's actually really handy, like Open Hand is just great for some stuff.

>>14714041
>I don't like Spirited, though. When would you ever need a single power and absorption?
See >>14714035

>>14714044
Nah, you're doing it right. A few people are just doing the equation without any defensive stats put in.

>>14714063
Destroyed by a Brutal build, like any other defensive build. Doubly so because he has 2 high stats.

>>14714044
I think that's it. How far off are your numbers? I'm not doing this with a calculator, so I could just be wrong on mine.

>>14714074
Makes sense. Brutal seems a bit bad until you see some of the nasty defense stacking stuff, which is easy to miss in the beginning when you just see the cool power stacking you can do.

>>14714074
Brutal only reduces the base, i.e. what you get from the armour - as that's a plate build, brutal's an effective -1/+0.5/-1.

>>14714048
I think brutal is fucking imbalanced. The other styles at best give +2, but brutal just needs the enemy to have 4 armor total to break even. On top of that, it's spread evenly, making it even more effective.

>>14714044
> thought it was
your damage=(your accuracy - enemy deflection)*(your speed - enemy dodge)*(your power - enemy absorbtion)+your prowess
It is. To be honest, I've been too busy to check most other people's math so far. Obviously when people are posting their stat blocks:

def: x/y/z
atk: a/b/c
prow: m

...they don't know what their enemy's stats are yet. But if everybody is getting their math right, all you should have to do is plug in the numbers. Can you give an example of something somebody has posted that you got a different answer for (and tell us what that different answer was)?

>>14714102
Brutal only modifies base, not total. You're never removing more than 1-1.5 points of armor stats using Brutal.

>>14714094
So style and offhand are just modifiers? That... kind of really nerfs Brutal then.

>>14714133
Exactly. If you read the text at the bottom of the image, you'll notice that base stats are what you get from your armor and weapon.

>>14714094
>Brutal only reduces the base
What this guy said. In most cases brutal reduces your enemy's defenses by a total of 1.5 (it only reduces leather by a total of 1). The good thing is that it's pretty much guaranteed to hit any high defenses your enemy has.

Ugh. Hold on, gotta figure out how to actually beat that damn hobbit now that Brutal can't just slap his dodge down to 2.5.

And the dwarf... dear god the dwarf...

Dwarf
Calculated
Leather
Warhammer
Shield

A: 7/9/8
D: 3/1/2
P: 20

I'm dubious of this build, but I think it has potential because of its strong speed and good deflection.

>>14714094
...oh, it's only -50% of the base. Fuck. Never mind them :<

Guess I'm switching to Orc/Calculated/Leather/Axe/Great Weapon for an attack of 8.5/8.5/11.5 and defense of 0/1/1 and +20 prowess

>>14714110

I was getting confused by the people who were posting base damage.

so far elf with net is winning I think
>>14713913

>>14714162
I feel like your best bet would be some sort of Calculated Flail wielder. If you can exploit his awful absorbsion and still get around his fucknormous Dodge, you'll be on an even playing field.

Granted, it will always be possible, once a build is posted, to construct a build specifically to defeat it. This one is taking so long because nobody has had to deal with a defensive stat that high yet.

>>14714133
>So style and offhand are just modifiers? That... kind of really nerfs Brutal then.
Yeah. Otherwise it'd be ridiculously powerful. Honestly, though, it seems like Brutal can be a little hard to exploit. It's great if you're already balanced with your attack stats, but usually you're trying to patch holes, and it's not selective.

unless I fucked something up

Dwarf
Calculated
Leather
Warhammer
Shield
>>14714163

is now tied with

elf + net
>>14713913

>>14714179
Tried that, but you can't get around his enormous dodge with a flail build. There's not enough speed possible to make it so that that doesn't completely weigh you down.

>>14714198
My math shows the dwarf solidly winning, but I may have done something wrong. Rechecking my work.

>>14714163
>mfw when this beats Orc/Calculated/Leather/Axe/Great Weapon by 0.125

>>14714229
I haven't done the math, but if they both round to the same whole number, you have a tie: both warriors pass out from exhaustion and live to fight another day.

>>14714163
>>14714229
Wait a minute. Leather and Shield gives only 2/2/1 on defense. If you're using Chainmail, that's still only 3/0/2.

YOU CHEATER

>>14713964

Yeah, your numbers are off, elf winds up with 372, human has 394 after the net, 493 prior, though the net did drop off roughly 98 damage.

and the actual math on it,

(10-2) x (10 - -1) x( 6-2) +20
(8)X(11)x(4)+20
88 x (4) +20
352+20
372
Human:
((8-1) x (8-1) x (8-1) + 150) -20%
((7) x (7) x (7) +150) -20 %
(49 x (7) +150) -20%
(343+150) -20%
493-20%
394.4

Hobbit
Calculated
Unarmored
Sword
Shield

Defense: 1 / 5 / -1
Attack: 7.5 / 7.5 / 9
Prowess: 20

Ok, the hobbit is obviously a monster. This will require precision engineering to defeat.

STEP THE FIRST: OVERCOME THE DODGE.
Mobile Sword will give us 8/10/6. This is enough to give us a multiplier of 5 over the hobbit's dodge, which is not great, but frankly better than we deserve. Our multiplier is 210 as of now, which is not high enough, but it will go up. The addition of Elf moves us to 9.6/10/6, and gives us our Prowess bonus. The total is now 301.

STEP THE SECOND: NEGATE THE OFFENSE.
This is going to be hard, because the enemy has two good stats, and one great stat. I would say Scale, for 1/-1/3, and a shield for 2/0/3. This reduces the enemy's attack to 247.5.

Elf
Mobile
Scale
Sword
Shield
Vs
The Hobbinator.

TOTAL: 301 to 247.6.

This post is deceptive, because I have seriously been re-writing it for half a fucking hour. The hobbits WILL be taken to Isengard, but I'll be damned if this wasn't hard.

>>14714255
Does not the dwarf add 1/-1/1?
I don't even know anymore, the lab is in chaos. Oh god, they're killing each other!

>>14714260

I don't think you apply -20% at every step. I've been applying it at the end to the final damage.

>>14714198
here

okay, I fail at rounding. dorf edges out elf by one point since I only rounded down instead of up.

>>14714285
Nice. Of course, I think we've discerned by now that any of these can just collapse into flames if put against the wrong adversary. Those two are both really well made though, so is that hobbit. it's bizarre, I've actually been afraid of going human because I'm terrified of using plate, the -1 to dodge looks like a death sentence to me.

Hobbit
Calculated
Plate
Sword
Dagger

A: 7.5/7.5/9
D: 2/1/1
+110 Prowess

Pretty sure this is a fucking beast.

>>14714278
>I don't think you apply -20% at every step. I've been applying it at the end to the final damage.
Yeah. Apply it at the end after you've finished doing everything else.

>>14714274
Racial bonuses aren't applied unless you get both equipments, I think. If you have one, it's just +20 prowess.

>>14714278

Wrote the equation out order of operations style, that's why everything is in parenthesis until the last step.

Also, haven't crunched the numbers yet, but I think the human statblock for that elf test also edges out the dwarf with leather, hammer, calculated and shield, but it is damn close.

>>14714315
That would explain the discrepancy. I thought you only needed one of the two.

>>14714335
No wait, it's hidden at the bottom, you only need one.
Though I would be in support of giving an additional +10 if you had both of the specialities. Not the full second 20, sort of a diminished return thing.

>>14714315
Where the hell does it say that? I don't see that anywhere.

>>14714344
No. You need 1 for +20 prowess, but 2 for the racial.

>>14714356
I'll repeat. Where the fuck does it say this?

>>14713964
The net is a good idea, but it won't go far enough. Your key should be exploiting the human's mediocre real-stats. Even at the cost of proficiency, it might be worth it.

>>14714356
I urge you to check again.

Sorry, I've been working on a spreadsheet to calculate things for me, so my attention has been elsewhere. You only need 1 of the 2 pieces of equipment listed under race to get the 20 prowess. I made it that way so that there would be more flexibility in how people made their characters.

>>14714378
>>14714366
You know what? Let's wait for a response from Litany, since he made it. I thought it was strongly implied, but I guess it doesn't explicitly say it.

Okay, so where are we here? After recalculating this old fight, I get 309 to 304 in my dodgy hobbit's favor (let's call him Hugh).

hobbit
calculated
none
sword
shield

-vs-

elf
calculated
plate
sword
empty

Can somebody check my math?

You automatically get the racial bonus. You get 20 prowess if you have either (or both) of the specialized items.

My try against the halfling:
Dwarf
Calculated
Scale
Hammer
Dagger

Deflection: 2
Dodge: -2
Absorption: 4

Accuracy:7
Speed:9
Power:8

Prowess:110

against : >>14713844
I think i do 326 vs 281.

>>14714414
I would, but I think I've finally gotten too tired to try and crunch numbers.

>>14714414

sorry, I have to leave in a minute. if it is still not done when I get back in an hour I'll run it through.

>>14714428
>I think i do 326 vs 281.
That's what my spreadsheet gives me.

So the tactic is to maximize speed, and then do an end run around his defenses using the dagger's prowess boost?

>>14714448
>>14714434
Either way. I'm just trying to check out my spreadsheet for errors. I just got the same result as here >>14714428 so I at least know it's not completely wonky.

>>14714452
actually, i think the pattern is, for defense, pump one as high as possible (trying to make it their results a 1).
for attack, be as balanced as possible.

i think it kind of has to do with n*n >(n+1)(n-1). now it's time to find the best defensive person... :P

>>14714414
I believe you are correct. That's a close one.

>>14714423
>mfw

In that case...
Hobbit
Calculated
Plate
Sword
Net

A: 7.5/7.5/9
D: 2/1/1
+20 Prowess
-20% all damage

Alternatively, swap in Scale and Shield for D of 2/2/2, but no 20%. My gut feeling is net is superior though, unless opponent runs a low attack build.

>>14714460
*correction: basically you want to follow the idea of maximizing one defense while balancing your attack. then now you just have to find a good combination. i like my dwarf right now :D

I'll call him Easter Bunny :P

>>14714414
The halfling might actually benefit from leather instead of unarmored. I think reducing multiple attack stats is better than reducing one a lot. That said, yes, Hugh wins that one as far as I can see.

>>14714266
You are correct. Clearly the hobbit is not insurmountable, merely... Of excellent construction.

Again a negative dodge, you instead want to focus more on accuracy and power. Dumping everything in one category gets diminishing returns.

>>14714499
The system is unique in that you don't actually exploit the enemy's weaknesses, you focus on diminishing his strengths and allowing your latent superiority in his poor areas to carry you.

>>14714499
really? I dont know. It's easy to counter the dwarf, then make something to beat it

Okay, so here's a character that largely forsakes defense in favor of causing massive damage. I have him beating Hugh 423 to 403:

Grevish Hathhain
orc
mobile
scale
sword
great

-vs-

hobbit
calculated
none
sword
shield

Overall, I think the hobbit shuts more people down, but if you aren't badass with your defenses, Grevish will smack you into a paste.

>>14714502
>>14714526
Say your attack in one category is already 8 and 6 another. Applying a +1 to the 8 gives an increase of 1/8, but applying it to 6 gives 1/6.
Then turn this around and realize there's a trade-off between offense and defense as well. You could increase your power up by 2, for an increase of 2/8 or something... Or add it to defense so their x8 becomes x6 instead. You can't plan for what your opponent does, but this does guide what you want to aim for.

i think in this game, you can actually target weaknesses.

fun game OP. thx. i'm going to sleep now

>>14714473
>Hobbit
>Calculated
>Plate
>Sword
>Net
>
>A: 7.5/7.5/9
>D: 2/1/1
>+20 Prowess
>-20% all damage

vs Hugh
hobbit
calculated
none
sword
shield

Defense: 1 / 5 / -1
Attack: 7.5 / 7.5 / 9
Prowess: 20

Result: 183 to 245 in favor of Hugh

I'll bet this is the kind of game that accountants play. I'll show it to some of my so-inclined friends later, it seems like the sort of thing they'd end up playing with for months.

>>14714597
Thusfar, I believe only my custom-engineered elf has actually outmatched Hugh at all, and I spent an hour on it.
You've really got a good nose for this, OP, did you make it?

>>14714616
'custom-engineered elf' is no fun, what's his name? Naming your experiments is the new hip thing, everyone's doing it.

>>14714631
I shall call him Radovan. With the power of quantum elf-energy, he shall best all comers!

>>14714616
>You've really got a good nose for this, OP, did you make it?
Yeah. And that does help. I tried not to pre-plan characters, though, and whenever I noticed something that was obviously very sweet, I tried to change the rules to prevent it. Still, I obviously needed to know the gist of the game to prevent horrible imbalances.

>Thusfar, I believe only my custom-engineered elf has actually outmatched Hugh at all
Well, there's my massive damage orc too: >>14714529

>>14714643
Which one was your elf, again? I think I've lost him somewhere in the middle of this thread.

>>14714644
would you mind giving a look to a similar system I divised ?

>I'll bet this is the kind of game that accountants play. I'll show it to some of my so-inclined friends later, it seems like the sort of thing they'd end up playing with for months.
I'm working on a somewhat more advanced version of this. Not sure when I'll get around to finishing it, though. It could be many months. At that point, though, I'll probably have people make their characters and randomly pit them against each other until only one remains, claiming the prize.

>>14714655
Oh, he was way back .>>14714266.
I did not name him, but I believe it is the same build. Without intentionally constructing a countermeasure, I do not believe it is possible to realistically defeat the hobbit.
Or rather, did not believe. The orc seems to have done it, and more impressively.

>>14714644
ended up i didn't sleep yet. i want to pit my orc against yours:

Orc (Pointy Eared Not-Elf)
Precise
Scale
Sword
Great

Deflection:0
Dodge:-1
Absorption:3

Accuracy:8
Speed:8
Power:6+2+2+2.5

Prowess:20

I think i did my math correct, and since we have the same defense, i do a 704 against you while you do 680 against me. talk about clash of the titans XD

>>14713524

mfw this turned into a /sci/ numbercrunching thread

>>14714663
>would you mind giving a look to a similar system I divised ?
Sure. I can't promise timely results, though.

>>14714689
>704
>680

>>14714702
I wouldn't touch /sci/ with Dawkins' cock and his daddy pushing, but goddamn if this isn't fun.

>>14714689
>i do a 704 against you while you do 680 against me.
That's what I get. Hugh will avenge my death though (slaughtering you 403 to 304).

>>14714731
hahaha, yeah. i think your system is well done. people who specialize will fall to people built to counter them, and balanced characters wins some and loses some.

nicely done :D. i think i can sleep now XD

>>14714266
>TOTAL: 301 to 247.6.
I have you beating me 321 to 268. Did you post your stat block anywhere? I'm wondering if I mis-programmed Excel, or if you miscalculated.

>>14714716
That is the single most bizarre way I've ever heard anything put, ever.

>>14714762
I see what happened already: We're both off by 20, and you rounded up with your program. I just forgot to factor in prowess.
Hold on, I'll assemble the stat block.

Radovan
Elf
Mobile
Scale
Sword
Shield

Attack: 9.6/10/6
Defense: 2/0/3
Prowess: 20

Yeah, I think I forgot to factor in prowess, because it's added in last and I have to do the calculations manually to begin with. Easy to forget.

>>14714771
>I see what happened already: We're both off by 20, and you rounded up with your program.
Good eye.

>>14714797
Yeah. I get the same stat blocks for you.

Now Radovan vs. Grevish:

Radovan
Elf
Mobile
Scale
Sword
Shield

Attack: 9.6/10/6
Defense: 2/0/3
Prowess: 20

-vs-

Grevish Hathhain
orc
mobile
scale
sword
great

atk: 8/10/10.5
def: 0/-1/3
prow: 20

Grevish takes it, 470 to 337

Actually Grevish and Hugh are a pretty good team. Whenever one of them loses, the other can wallop the victor.

>>14714850
Ahh, Minsc and B-er, Grevish and Hugh stand ready.
At least I got one of 'em.

>>14714702
>mfw this turned into a /sci/ numbercrunching thread
I always hated math in school because it either wasn't being applied to anything, or it was being applied to shit I didn't care about. If they had me number crunch for role playing games and such, you wouldn't have been able to get me to put my textbook down.

>>14714850
Uh oh! Looks like someone's getting tried at the Hague!

>>14714428
Nameless dwarf (who beat Hugh) vs. Grevish:

Dwarf
Calculated
Scale
Hammer
Dagger

Deflection: 2
Dodge: -2
Absorption: 4

Accuracy:7
Speed:9
Power:8

Prowess:110

-vs-

Grevish
orc
mobile
scale
sword
great

atk: 8/10/10.5
def: 0/-1/3
prow: 20


I have Grevish winning 488 to 460. That's pretty close, though.

Solved it.

Human
Precise
Plate
Sword
Dagger

Giving a base damage of 8^3+160 = 672

>>14714989
This is a tough build, but it might falter a bit against enemies with high speed and absorb.

>>14714989
Human
Precise
Plate
Sword
Dagger

atk: 8/8/8
def: 2/-1/2
prow: 150

-vs-

Hugh
hobbit
calculated
none
sword
shield

Defense: 1 / 5 / -1
Attack: 7.5 / 7.5 / 9
Prowess: 20

Hugh wins 347 to 339. That's a pretty good build, though.

>>14714989
Your character vs. Grevish:

Human
Precise
Plate
Sword
Dagger


-vs-


Grevish
orc
mobile
scale
sword
great

atk: 8/10/10.5
def: 0/-1/3
prow: 20

Grevish takes it 581 to 510.

>>14714989

vs. Radovan:

Elf
Mobile
Scale
Sword
Shield

Attack: 9.6/10/6
Defense: 2/0/3
Prowess: 20

Your character beats Radovan 390 to 354

>>14714960
And vs. the nameless dwarf that beat Hugh:

Dwarf
Calculated
Scale
Hammer
Dagger

Deflection: 2
Dodge: -2
Absorption: 4

Accuracy:7
Speed:9
Power:8

Prowess:110

You lose 390 to 410.

These are all really solid characters.

Nameless dwarf, Hughbeater.
Dwarf
Calculated
Scale
Hammer
Dagger

Deflection: 2
Dodge: -2
Absorption: 4

Accuracy:7
Speed:9
Power:8

Prowess:110

-vs-

Radovan
Elf
Mobile
Scale
Sword
Shield

Attack: 9.6/10/6
Defense: 2/0/3
Prowess: 20

Hughbeater trounces Radovan 335 to 202. This is a tough dwarf.

Orc
Calculated
Plate
Spear
Great Weapon

ATT: 7.5/9/12 + 20
DEF: 1/-1/2

Pros: base 830 and decent defences.
Con: lower base than the greatsword monsters.

>>14714703
I do not have your experience on the question, but here's a rough preliminary work on the system I mentioned.

I'm pretty sure there are gross flaws in there, though.

>>14715155

If my numbers are right, I've got this guy crushing Hughbeater 504 to 470.

Hughbeater vs Spear Orc: (7-1) x (9+1) x (8-2) + 110 = 470
Spear Orc vs Hughbeater: (7.5-2) x (9+2) x (12-4) + 20 = 504

>>14715155
Orc
Calculated
Plate
Spear
Great Weapon

ATT: 7.5/9/12 + 20
DEF: 1/-1/2

-vs-

Hugh
hobbit
calculated
none
sword
shield

----Hugh wins 407 to 358


Your character vs...

Grevish
orc
mobile
scale
sword
great

----You beat Grevish 695 to 675


Your character vs...

The Unnamed Dwarf
Calculated
Scale
Hammer
Dagger

---You win 504 to 470.

Not bad at all. I think that puts you solidly in the circle of standing champions. Now, if anybody can come in and beat them all, he pretty much walks away with the trophy.

>>14715199

dat fucking hobbit.

>>14715207
Yeah, thus far I haven't been able to come up with a character that'll beat Hugh, Grevish and Hughbeater. And now, I suppose, I'll have to add your character to the list, making the task completely impossible. I was trying for a high prowess character, but I can't quite pull it off.

>>14715167
Sadly, I don't have the intelligence to parse this right now. It's past my bedtime and I'm fading fast (if I want to get enough sleep, I need to crash an hour ago). Can I give you a rain check?

A few quick questions though. Does a shield count as one of your weapons? How exactly does power strike work (is it a power that applies in addition to your weapon attacks)?

>>14715304
I'm pretty sure your thread will sustain until you wake up.

Anyway, yes, shields are weapons and yes, power strike works as a third potential weapon.

>>14715250

I think Spear Orc ties with the Hobbit exactly if he takes empty hand instead of great weapon. You'll want to check that on your spreadsheet though, and I'm not sure how the Orc will stack up against the others with empty hand.

I'll right, I'm going to crash out now. Here, as I see it, are the main characters to beat:

Hugh
hobbit -- calculated -- none -- sword -- shield
Defense: 1 / 5 / -1 ------ Attack: 7.5 / 7.5 / 9 ------ Prowess: 20

Grevish
orc -- mobile -- scale -- sword -- great
atk: 8/10/10.5 ----- def: 0/-1/3 ------ prow: 20

Unnamed Dwarf, Hughbeater
Dwarf -- Calculated -- Scale -- Hammer -- Dagger
Atk: 7/9/8 ------ Def: 2/-2/4 ------ Prow: 110

Unnamed Orc, Hater of Hugh
Orc -- Calculated -- Plate -- Spear -- Great Weapon
ATT: 7.5/9/12 ------ DEF: 1/-1/2 ------ PROW: 20

>>14715339
>I'm pretty sure your thread will sustain until you wake up.
Yeah. But then I've got to work for 9 hours. And who knows where things will go after that. In any case, I've saved your pic and I'll look it over. If I don't catch you after work, I'll try to namefag when I post on this board so you can recognize me and flag me down. Like I said, though, no promises this will be timely. I've got a busy week and may end up just preferring mindless television watching over game crunching.

Arena II needs an irc, i wouldnt mind seeing something like that.

Wonder if i could get a bot that you could create and store characters, and the big 4

hmmmm ill have to look into this

ORC
BRUTAL
PLATE
AXE
GREAT WEAPON

DIDN'T LOOK AT STATS OR DO ANY MATH

FUCK YOU

>>14715167
Is the goal to make a game that's not calculable via scripting?

I'm wondering if it would be easier to add a point buy stat value to the existing chart. Maybe just str/dex/con or something?

As is, it looks like 3125 possible builds, and just shy of 10,000,000 possible matchups. You could probably write a script to find the build that has the highest win/loss ratio fairly easily from that. But add in a few thousand statistical combos and the time to run the script goes too high to be feasible.

>>14715483
I'm okay with scripting...

In fact I'm roughing up a stat system for an online game I might develop in the future.

>>14715383
Dwarf
Calculated
Plate
Hammer
Shield

A: 7/9/8
D: 4/-1/3
+20 prowess

Beats them all except Hughbeater, to which it loses by 20. Took advantage of the fact that the system doesn't allow for very high accuracy weapons.

Orc
Calculated
Leather
Flail
Net

Wouldn't this fare pretty okay?

Dwarf
Spirited
Plate
Sword
Shield

bump

Orc
Brutal
Scale
Flail
Net

People gunna git rayped.
>>vogelfreis it
This Orc is named Vogelfreis. Fear it.

>>14715929
Seems like the most accurate weapon you can get is a calculated axe, at 8.5, barely beating a sword or spear. Comparatively, the highest deflection would be a Dwarf with Chainmail(or plate) + Shield at 4.

>>14715929
>Beats them all except Hughbeater
Nice! My math confirms your results.

elf
spirited
scale
sword
great

Atk 9.6 / 8 / 9.5
Def 1/-1/4
prowess 20

Beats you 348 to 260. But it's a cheap shot. I just pumped up accuracy to overcome your deflection. Right now your character looks to be on top of the heap. Sadly, I don't have time for anything else right now. I've got to get to work.

>>14717930
>Seems like the most accurate weapon you can get is a calculated axe, at 8.5
You're forgetting that elves give you a 20% bonus to accuracy.

>>14718577
Turns out that this character actually kicks some ass.

Lillendri
elf
spirited
scale
sword
great

Atk 9.6 / 8 / 9.5
Def 1/-1/4
prowess 20

She loses to Hugh, but beats all the other champions.

So, it seems Dwarves are the only one that can beat a offense-stacked Orc (one with Precise, Sword, and Great Weapon), Humans stomp Dwarves, but Elves and Hobbits can elimate Humans, but are beaten by offensive Orcs.

The highest balance I've come up with is

Hobbit
Spirited
Scale
Sword
Shield

Offense 8,8,7 +20
Defense 2,2,4

While the most weighted defense with balanced attack is

Hobbit
Precise
Leather
Sword
Shield
Offense 8,8,8 +20
Defense 2,4,1

I chose Hobbits because they're the only way to get reliable dodge, which will eliminate most Speed stats to 4 or less

Cont'd in next post

>>14719280 Cont'd
Spirited is the worst option for Style, seeing as you can get greater Power returns with every weapon but the Flail with Precise, and you shouldn't be increasing a Flail's power.

Compounding Spirited being the worst is the capability of absortion to get so high you're better off elimating their other offensive stats with a Shield and Chainmail (on either a Dwarf or Hobbit), lowering their multiplication.

Humans are negated largely by nets, since that's the best way to counter their ridiculous Prowess, again usually on a defensive Dwarf or Hobbit. (20% of 150 is 30, meaning they may lose simply from that shortfall, if not from the mitigation of the rest of their offense)

Cont'd again

>>14719280

Reduce the Defense's last number by one for both builds.

The most effective tactic is to overwhelm the enemy by negating their lowest offensive stat, while simultaneously overcoming their highest defensive stat to keep your multipliers high.

The maximum Accuracy is 9.9 (Elf, Calculated, Axe) with 9.6 as the next highest (Elf, Sword). The minimum is 6 (Flail).

The maximum Deflection is 4 (Dwarf, Chainmail/Plate, Shield). The minimum is -1 (Orc, Unarmored).

The maximum Speed is 10 (Mobile, Sword), with 9 as the next highest (Calculated, Spear/Hammer). The minimum is 5 (Flail).

The maximum Dodge is 5 (Hobbit, Unarmored, Empty Hand/Shield). The minimum is -2 (Dwarf, Scale/Plate).

The max Power is 17(!) (Orc, Precise, Flail, Great Weapon), with the next highest (without flail) coming in at 13.5 (Orc, Calculated, Sword, Great Weapon). The minimum is 6 (Sword).

The maximum Absorption is 4 (Dwarf, Scale). The minimum is -1 (Hobbit, Unarmored).

The maximum Prowess is 150 (Human, Plate, Dagger) [Remember you need the Plate for the extra 20, since you can't take a shield in lieu of a Dagger). The minimum is 0. The only way to mitigate Prowess is through a Net.

Cont'd...

>>14719800

6 or 7 seems to be the threshold of victory, meaning that if you can get at least one of your opponent's offensive stats to 5 or below while keeping all of your own above 5 (or compensating the difference with overwhelming Prowess, I'm looking at you, Humans), you've generally won.

Because of the balance of stats, it's best you have one or two very high offensive stats with the third one picking up the slack, while getting low but balanced defensive stats.

What I'm getting at through all of this, is that all builds are defeatable, and in multiple ways, but the strongest builds are the ones hardest to negate.

Orcs are beaten by Hobbits with Chaimail and a Shield, Hobbits are beaten by Elves with Mobility, Elves are beaten by Dwarves in general, and Dwarves are easily beaten by Humans, who are beaten by Orcs who out damage them. That is the easiest sequence.