Make kroot not suck

Make vespids not suck

Make stealth suits not suck

Fuck off Matt Ward. Either figure out how to do your job properly or quit GW and work for Warmachine so you can fag their shit up.

Asshole.

>>14120112

wat

I AM BUMPING THIS THREAD BECAUSE THE IDEA OF MATT WARD POSTING ON /TG/ FOR CODEX ADVICE AMUSES ME MIGHTILY.

it might also be nice to have some serious discussion about the original topic but since when do we have that on here

>>14120161
ITT we call out Matt Ward for asking /tg/ for advice on his new codex.

At least there's nothing we could do to make it suck harder than that bullshit Kae'Moda codex. Non-warp FTL drives. The nerve.

>>14123258
Hey fuck you. >:C

I like that codex and i will happily derail this thread in defense of it.

SO DON'T PUSH ME, BUDDY.

Only change three things?

Simple.
>> Delete all rules references to Tau.
>> Delete all fluff for Tau.
>> Delete Tau.

Fucking weboo bullshit.

>>14123272
Oh yeah, you'll derail the Tau thread to defend 20 point transports? I dare you.

>implying Matt Ward would write a xeno codex.

points shuffling to make even goddamn numbers.

more troops

All Kroot list, all Crisis suit lists, all air cav lists.

Get rid of Space Pope

Replace him Anghkor Prok

Make shield drones work properly

> Leadership boost (other than piece of shit ethereals)
> Cheaper kroots (meat shield duty)
> Better stealth teams(because they're awesome)

the Tau codex isn't actually that bad, but they suck because of leadership and cc issues.

Well, I've seen three fire warriors beat the crap out of a fully pimped Ork Warboss in full wounds

How has nobody mentioned lowering the price of firewarriors?

It's like one of the KEY problems with the dex

Make them a space marine sub-chapter --> Fanboy codex writers masturbate on paper --> overpowered codex

Seems to work every time

>>14123339
The problem with firewarriors as I see it isn't that they're too expensive, it's that they're boring and predictable. In this age of mechanized bullshit, any infantry unit that can't be equipped with an antitank weapon is seriously, seriously behind the times.

>>14123279
This. Tau have had little if any impact on the 40K universe and could easily be retconned out as "minor race that underwent exterminatus in 789.M35 just as planned."

>>14123279
>Fight for the empire
>Believe in a god-emperor
>consider giving your life in his service the highest honor
>call others weeaboo

Make Firewarriors either BS 4, or eight points.

Make all skimmers -40 points, abouts. Skyray should have infinite missiles, too. (Though maybe a limit per turn.)

Flamer drones : Give gundrones either TL flamers, or a heavy flamer. Explode in a S3 AP- small blast template when destroyed. Ten points.

first and foremost do something about their Leadership issues. Everyone and their dog is either fearless, stubborn, or has enough ways to circumvent LD that it's a non issue.

Actually having to pay attention to the morale rules are a massive disadvantage.

I'm not sure it's a case of firewarriors being too expensive, but the Devilfish being expensive for a transport even for a 4e codex.

Finally, all Kroot list options. Because Kroot Mercenaries, fuck yeah!

>>14123392
Alternately, instead of infinite missiles, allow sky rays to be taken as Pathfinder dedicated transports.

If GW have any love left for the Tau, they'll have their empire get sucked into a rift and end up in the MLP universe where they belong.

"It is the 41st Millennium... and there is only war."

ONLY war. Not war + multicultural communism.

Even the Japanese players I know prefer IG or Eldar.

No one plays Tau. No one.

Morale issues can be addressed by having shas'ui come standard free of charge as in all the 5th ed codexes, and by making the bonding knife allow you to reroll failed morale in addition to allowing you to regroup.

They'll still fold in an assault, but they probably won't just from getting shot up.

>>14123365

I've had the impression that the Tau actually control a quite large sector, and grow pretty fast.

Besides, the more races the better. otherwise 40K would become even more SM-dominated. As if it weren't already.

>>14123438
You don't need to cater to the xenofags to do that. Just release new codexes for the IG. It's about time guard got some love.

>>14123409
I know several Tau players.

Also, I find it funny how people deride them as weeaboo. Lemme just describe a faction here, and see if you can figure out which one it is.

>Highly elite warriors
>Devoted to a divine leader who is both a physical and spiritual supreme being
>Suicidally devoted in battle, without question
>Mostly known for suicidal close combat charges in strange situations
>Despite being a divine figure, their Emperor holds no day-to-day power
>Essentially a military dictatorship

...it turns out it's man.

>>14123471
You forgot >festooned entirely in baroque architecture.
Yeah, sure sounds Japanese. Mook.

>>14123471
You've inspired me to shout BANSAIIIIIIII whenever someone charges with a human faction.

>>14123409
There are two Tau players at my LGS. And I think one of them is actually Philipino. And as one person said there, "Tau aren't hard to deal with, they just don't die".

>>14123453
YES. More tech-heavy guard units. You could use the exact same models sans hooves and ethereals. Explain in the fluff that they're from the wealthier and more advanced Imperial worlds that have had to fend for themselves for some time without SM support.

God this is so perfect I actually have to take a massive shit just thinking about it.

No more double hit rolling for SMS, make them Str 8 ap 3 blasts. Give alternative profile that is str 8 ap 1 heavy. LoS is measured from the vehicle.

Stealth Suits have Camouflaged Retreat rule that gives them option to go to reserves and outflank again. Make them cheaper. Give them option to wield either long range or short range setup. Short Range would benefit from reserve bouncing and Long Range would benefit from reduced los.

Make Krootox viable so that you can wield MC troops if you want to.

>Make Ethereals not suck

>More good Kroot options

>More auxilieries

I'd make the Tau operate similarly to modern military forces, but a dash of communism. Kroot would be the expendable proletariat that come in BIG units but are dirt cheap; and actual Tau would come in small units (no more than 10 men) that would be fairly customisable. I'd throw in a super-heavy battle suit, because I'm rather enamoured with the idea of having a dreadnought sized battle suit zooming around the battlefield like something out of Armoured Core (and also have the option to put the commander in there, for more upgrade options). I'd also make a smaller Devilfish model, because no transport needs to be that big.

Recost EVERYTHING (almost everything should cost less)
Drones are never worth killpoints unless they are their own squad.
Raise over all BS.


The boring changes, but it would make the goddamned army playable.

Make alien allies better

Shift around some of the points costs to make some things reflect their impact on the game

Some more fluff, show why they shouldn't or can't be annihilated (besides the democlese gulf crusade)

1. Change Farsight to how he was in 3rd ed (can upgrade Firewarriors to WS3 and I3)
2. Bring back Aun Shi
3. No more 1+ Firewarriors
3b. Kroot HQ
3c. Knarlocks

1 Add fluff to why they haven't been wiped off the face of the galaxy by now.

2 Scrap Everything and start from scratch

3 Play test rewriten codex and modify till it works

>lower point costs
>Make XV-8s 1-5
>make XV-15/XV-25s 5-10

>and watch the world burn

>>14123692

That goes against the fluff. The greater good means no one is expendable.

Played against tau a few times. They are far too static (excluding kroot). Once your guys get into close combat is is already game over might as well call it then.

>>14124087
Debatably, the greater good might stipulate that anyone and everyone is expendable if it serves the greater good. I've always assumed it's more of a utilitarian thing than a communist thing.

>>14124092

sorry I didn't quite phrase it properly. I meant no one is more expendable than someone else.

but lets be honest thats what everyone uses the krute for.

>>14124129
The Tau don't necessarily practice what they preach. I find it quite in character for them to use the Kroot as cannon fodder.

Also, random thought: how much could you change Dark Heresy to play as Tau?

>>14124001
>Add fluff to why they haven't been wiped off the face of the galaxy by now.

Does this need explanation? They're only one of a thousand (and it's not exaggeration) minor alien races who control less than a sector of space and have a population smaller than an average Hive World. They just get lost in the crowd. Hell, they became a threat only several hundred years ago. Just look at Scythians who have been trying since Horus Heresy to get their vengeance for the Imperium for destroying one of their worlds. And they still exist.

>>14123340
DAMN YOU PHIL KELLY!

To be honest, I don't see how the Tau are animu. For one, in animu guns are useless light shows and will always fall to a sword...

...wait, so the Tau ARE animu bullshit, but on the receiving end.

Anyway. Just making Fire Warriors worth taking would go a long way. They're meant to be shooty, so make them shooty!

>>14120080
Fix problems.
Make better.
Use all ideas for next Marine codex and leave gutted Tau dex in the 'to do' pile.

The way to make fire warriors useful- Let them take a fusion gun, or a flamer, or a rail rifle.

That would make them worth it, AT the current cost.

You fuckers dont seem to realize what str 5 gun means.

You wound most armies on 2's.

You wound most monstrous creatures on 5's!

THATS FUCKING NUTS.

1. Make ethereals actually benefit the army
2. Allow tau to take pathfinders without buying that fucking devilfish
3. Make sky rays a competitive choice.

These are simple things that need to be fixed. Everything else is good.

Pulse Shotguns.

1 fire warriors bs 4 or 7 points like vet guardsman
2 Special characters akk Farsight makes XV8’s troops, Anghkor Prok makes it where you can do kroot merks, and Shadowsun lets you take XV25/XV15 as troops.
3 Bring in the Hazard Suits from forge world

>>14124722

7 points for a +4 armor save and a S5 AP5 gun.

I dont think so tim.

>>14124799
Seconding this guy for fuck you. 7 point firewarriors? Eat a dick nyucka.

>>14124799
>>14124805
10 point's then? 15?

+1 bs for fire warriors, at +1-2 pts

Lower price of Fire Warriors OR add 1 BS to their current statline.

Lower price of Kroot. They are worse than Orks and cost more than Orks. Or hell, just make them like Orks. That would be fine too. And while you're at it make them customizable like the Kroot Dex and Apoc Wings, better stealth, etc. Those options are fun.

Newer suits. I don't mean plastic kits or anything, but new types of suits. I would love to field an all suit army and I currently am running 21 in my 2kpt list.

>>14124805
>>14124799
They don't get special weapons and they don't stand a chance in CC, somewhere between 9-7 points sound about right

>>14124722
Man fuck you, the veteran guardsman has a BS 4 lasgun, you might as well not arm him. But a str 5 ap 5 gun at bs 3? That shit's actually worth something, I think your faggot ass can handle the same cost ballpark as SoBs.

>>14124722
7pts?! You're insane. Talk about overpowered then. I could see 10, but 7 is fucking crazy for a ST5 AP5 basic weapon.

>>14124834
Making them cheaper will just ensure that you take even fewer points worth of them than you otherwise would. Clearly the answer is to give them real fucking guns.
And that feels weird, saying that about Tau.

>>14124834

Inability to take special weapons should not affect the cost of the general unit itself. Especially when their basic gun is a strong as a heavy bolter, if with less ROF.

Guardsmen don't stand a chance in CC either. The tau are not THAT much worse than guard when you go from 'Lose CC always' to 'Lose CC always but a little moreso.'

Make them able to kill Space marines with exterminator armors.

>>14124835
SoBs get 3+ saves, flamers, meltas and faith. They are so much better it's silly.

>>14124857

The flamers and meltas have thier own points cost, they don't get them for free. And the faith powers require an upgrade that makes the squad closer to 13 points each than 11.

And the Tau have a STR5 gun and more range.

>>14124853
The inability to take special weapons means that they are worse. They cannot threaten tanks with say meltas and they cannot threaten hordes in cover with say, flamers. They are tactically unsound, unless they're cheap.

>>14123279
I love how your name fits.

>>14124835
But sisters get extra weapons and a better save, not to mention they are WAY better in Assault than Tau. Tau SHOULD be cheaper than them.

The only thought behind expensive Tau for nearly everyone is the ST5 gun, but that means diddly right now when you have to shoot stuff out of their vehicles first.

Last edition they were great because it was easier to blow stuff out of vehicles and now it's just way too hard to so nearly everyone has a mechanized army to some extent.

Hell, my friendly Blood Angels list that involves Descent of Angels everywhere still has a thing of Death Company in a Rhino because otherwise they get shot to shit.

Make Auxiliaries good
Make Ethereals good
Less grimderp

>>14124877

Yes but that means that squads that CAN take such weapons would be more expencive, even should they not take such weapons.

Also, firewarriors can hurt up to Armour 11 tanks and every monsterous creature in the game.

>>14124901
You mean they can glance up to one tank a game and POSSIBLY blow off a weapon? Shit, that tactic is SO unsound compared to nearly every other army getting a Melta or Lance type weapon in their basic troop.

>>14124901

dont forget a 30" range. Actually, i think an alternative to a points adjusmtent could be the ability to rapid fire @ 15" instead of 12". So its still half the range.

I like how nearly everyone who is complaining about Tau weapons being ST5 and that they don't need to have a price reduction probably play overpowered imperium armies.

>>14124913

And thus you think they should be as cheap as verteran guardsmen? For -1 bs, Better armour, and a MUCH better gun.

And as I have said. Troop quality should affect the cost of special weapons, not the ability to take special weapons to affect cost of troops. Especially when special weapons are not free. If they were, yes it would affect to cost of a trooper.

Do I really need to argue that the Firewarriors suck balls? Big hairy sweatty filthcovered shit-caking balls?
They do, they really do.
They either need to be made useful, or cheap.
One way to make them useful is to give them weapons that give them a little versitility.

As it stands, bs 3, str 5 means that they are on par with a bolter in the hands of a spacemarine.
Now compare a spacemarine to a firewarrior. Is that really a 3 point diffrence? 3+ does alot, since AP4 is plenty while AP 3 is not. Toughness 4 does alot since... well it's a tad obvious. Now as far as WS and I goes, this means that they'll get killed by /everything/ in close combat. EVERYTHING. And getting into close combat is rather simple. And if they are ever within the 12 inches that their glorfied bolters are effective, they will DIE the next turn due to a charge, even if they're shooting guardsmen.

And nothing is measurable on it's own, if that unit of firewarriors contained a cc monster sergeant or a special weapon that meant that they had other uses. They might still be worth while, and their bs 3 str 5 weapons might come in handy once in a while. You know when you run into a wraithlord or any other situation where the bolter isn't just as good.

But they have nothing of this, they lack options and can, as they are, only be made worth while if they're cheap.

>>14124929

I'm not arguing that tau shouldn't have a price reduction. I'm saying they shouldn't be as cheap as the still cannon fodder imperial guard vet.

>>14123409
Its like pony fans can't stop shitting up /tg/.

>>14124928
They can't though, still limted to 12 inches. They're still rapid fire weapons

>>14124959

3 points? Tau are 11 points and Marines are 16. That's a 5 point differance.

>>14124952
I wasn't the one saying about Veteran Guardsmen price. I honestly think they need to atleast go down 2 points or brought up 1 BS. They miss consistantly and not to mention that our basic tank is 80pts a pop and is a Rhino with hover abilities.

Tau right now, especially Fire Warriors, really need work in their price department and other areas. It's the reason they are not on top anymore. If the Fish of Fury tactic still worked I would be happy because I would use it.

Was it cheap back in the day? Fuck yes, but right now against all the power armor and Tanks, Tau just doesn't stand that much of a chance and it fucking sucks to see an army go from such overpowered status to godawful in only a few years.

>>14124985
Fire Warriors are 12. Marines are 15 on average.

>>14124999

12? Huh. Ok.

I could see them go down 1 point and get free defencive grenades then. Maybe a free bonding knife too.

>>14124985
Herped my derp, though i maintain the argument still stands (For some reason i was thinking 12/15 points).
You can still make the comparsion to Sisters though.
Same price.
The sisters will win, every single square off in every single field. Every time. In every way. And That's without their options.

make there bs 5
make a battle suit choice a troop choice
make stealth suits awesome

8pt Firewarriors with grenades
Have an option for crisis suits with power weapons (even its just farsights honour guard)
Somekind of assult unit (Kroot are to flimsy)

>>14125005

Yeah. I wouldn't mind thier gun being changed to heavy 2 OR rapid fire, like psycannons. It would vastly increase their effectiveness at range.

Still going to die in assault but damn if they are not going to make you work to get there.

You know what Armies Tau is good against? DE Daemons and Necrons.

So if you guys could just stick to playing those 3. Oh, wait you can't since the big 5 are all that is really played.

>>14125024
And Chaos.

>>14125039
lolno. Khorne Zerkers and Plague Marines will tear Tau a new one every game.

A character that give us an all armor army
A character that give us an all kroot army
Give something to the fire warriors so we would like to deploy them and not jsut buy the 1+ squad.

And new models for the Crisis/broadside

>>14125047
Well Eldar than.

>>14123284
>all air cav lists.
Oh god yes.

>>14124598
I want this. So very much.

>>14125024
>>14125039

>Dark Eldar
How the fuck do you figure?

>Daemons
Daemons are kind of jipped with their codex, but I've seen Daemon players rip the Tau codex a new, bloody skull pussy.

>Necron
...have a codex older than the Tau.

>Chaos
PWAHAHAHAHAHA.
PFFHAHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAHA.
HAHAHAHHAAHAHAHH.
Hoo...whoa. Sorry. Good one, bro.

>>14125054
Scorpions, Banshees, and nearly anything else that can get into CC quickly.

>>14125070
By that logic than all armies are better than Tau for having CC units.

>>14125059
Dark Eldar I have never lost a game against with my Tau. I can always pop their ships extremely quickly and be able to run away quick enough so that they aren't able to get at me.

And then rip them to shreds with my ST5 weapons.

Stealth predator drone from GW.

>>14125075
Taaadaaa! You are correct!

Tau have shit for CC when it is such a vital part of the current rulebook.

Not to mention TANKS are extremely different this edition and Tau and Necron have suffered the worst of it because of it.

>>14125075

Everyone except 'Crons and WH/DH has CC units that can, and usually do, royally fuck over Tau. IG just outshoot them.

>>14125088
>Taaadaaa! You are correct!
Then why do I win battles?

>>14125075
YES!?
It's CC edition, they suck in CC and what they get to compensate (Suits, what with backjumping jetpacks) aren't troopchoises. And generally too expensive.

>>14125093
Because Tau can still win, but it is nowhere near as consistent as it should be. A lot of things fuck them over in their codex and with the current rules.

Unless you are running Fish of Fury without the update and being a total dick.

>>14125093

Because nothing is certain. There's a guy at my FLGS who plays Necrons. Despite them having a terrible codex he wins around 40-50% of his games because he is very good.

>>14125102
I meant his logic that any army with CC units can instantly beat opponents playing Tau.
Which is basically every army, including Tau.

Make the Tau suddenly larger and a huge threat, rivaling the Imperium of Man.

Just so I can bathe in the delicious tears.

1. Either +1BS for FWs or -3 points
2. All skimmers have their points greatly reduced
3. More special characters.

>>14125093
Cause you're good? Doesn't mean your codex sucks to an unfair degree.
Hell i love playing the underdog, but that wasn't what this thread is about. I switched from Orks to Witchhunters when the new ork dex came.

>>14125079

>implying you fight idiotic players who don't hold things in reserve against the gunline army that is the Tau

>>14125144
Even if they do hold them in reserve they are still entering from the far side.

I still can get to them easily.

>>14125121
Well that's not entirely true then, but being bad in CC is something they need to be compensated very heavily for. And they aren't. They were compensated for it in 4th ed, Since there wasn't as much or as fast melee then. But now, they're just getting the short end of the stick at every turn. (Seriously, the devilfish should be like 40 points, tops, not 80)

>>14125150
I wish i could face you with my assassin heavy Sisters army. Ah the first turn charges, first turn charges everywhere.

>>14125150

I'm the only one in this thread who likes Fire Warriors, apparently. Although I only started playing in 5th ed.

Man, I have had Fire Warriors kill a broodlord and a callidus assassin in cc. I have had pathfinders EMP grenade a chaos dreadnought to death. Your little blue guys can pull some amazing shit, you just gotta LET'EM.

Also, love running my Pathfinders up the field in their Devilfish to my friends venerable and normal Dreadnought (who move in a pair, with a fucking Master of the Forge behind them) so they can EMP 'nade one, while I deepstrike my Stealthsuits down to throw down some melta. Only works sometimes, but deeyumn.

>>14125162
Thats exactly what I mean by the unfairness of Close Combat towards Tau.

Seriously, it's BS. But it's probably also because I take a suit heavy list against the guys at my shop. Who are nothing but Power Gamers.

>>14125181

That's the point of playing Tau. They have strong, mobile shooting (well at least they are supposed to) but suck dick in CC.

Points rebalanced, Ballistic skill, Squad size. Improve them all.

>>14125190
Thats great, but allow them more mobility, etc.

Tau Codex can DEFINITELY be improved upon from what it currently is.

Whatever happened to Xiamen? The guy who was writing a new fixed version of the Tau codex? We did a whole bunch of suggestions and reworking for Tau in his threads.

>>14125212
Its only because every newer codex is overpowered.

>>14125222
That isn't true. The ones Matt Ward has written have been pretty balanced. Space Marines and Blood Angels were both balanced, but their fluff was ridiculous.

Also I would say Dark Eldar and Nids are pretty balanced too, but IG is WAAAY overpowered.

>>14125222
And thats one of the many reasons why GW is terrible.

Firewarriors - 8 points

Vespids either 14 points or 4+ save

Make Ethereals worth taking.

>>14125190
True but they're not mobile enough, so many armies can first-turn charge their suits. They won't win the CC since powerweapons go around like the fucking herpes, they can't shoot the assailant since they're in CC and the unit in CC can't shoot. Your only hope then is to hope your suits fall back or die at the end of the enemy turn, so you get a few shots in before they charge something else.
Here's an idea, why not give the supposedly super accurate and high tech tau a unit upgrade that lets them shoot into CC?
Or perhaps better balanced if it's the unit that is in CC that must have the upgrade?
Friendly Fire beacons? Guns can't fire if they would hit them. Allows no blastweapons, and incurs a -1 to BS or somesuch.

>>14125238

SM and BA balanced? The fuck? 40k has suffered from terrible codex creep from around the release time of the current Eldar and Dark Angels' codices. It wasn't too bad before then but that really signalled the turning point.

>>14125238
>blood angels balanced
>IG overpowered
...i'm willing to admit as an IG player that they're certainly not weak, but you're a fucking troll or a dumbass if you think butt angels are 'balanced'

I've always thought of the Tau as being a small, elite army. Keeping with this, I'd make it so that the player would be forced to use stealth and complex tactics rather than overwhelming numbers.

Also, someone here mentioned shotguns. That would be an excellent way of giving the Tau an edge in close combat, but would still keep with their shooty image.

>>14120080
1. make a variety of seeker missiles

2. more alien auxiliaries (and make current ones not suck)

3. cool and useful special characters

i actually like firewarrior squads.

and if they needs special weapons i'd rather see them get their special weapons via marker lights and seeker missiles, sure they're one shots but if a seeker missile can fire a flame template then just htink about it, its a 36" ranged template that can be used by any squad with a marker light.

Get rid of fire warriors. Put regular crisis as troop choices with 2 weapons and BS3. Put super crises as elite with 3 weapons and BS4. Give all pathfinders rail rifles/marker lights to represent them being scouts like every other army would. Make stealth suit rules good, something sophisticated.

>>14125364
>Get rid of fire warriors.
Thats terrible.

Hi guys, Matty Ward here. Thanks for the awesome advice. I can see that everyone's really like firewarriors but at the moment they aren't too competitive. But I have the solution! You see firewarriors have never fought Ultramarines before, but in M41.999 they do and they are so impressed with everything about them that they send Water caste envoys to Macragge and ask The god king Calgar if they can devote their Empire to serving in the newly formed Ultramarines Auxiliary Core! The UAC is made up of marines from other chapters who want to do even more for the Emperor, orks who think the Ultramarines are their boss, a renegade Hive fleet who sides with the Ultras after they saved them from the tyranny of Behemoth, and various other aliens races that want to serve the greatest chapter in the Imperium. The Tau will be made the generals of this army and will be given power armour! Also they will be able to equip railguns instead of pulse rifles! The Tau of the UAC will be lead by an Ethereal who accidentally ended up on a Deamon world and defeated Fulgrim in single combat with nothing but a bonding knife, cause Tau are that awesome!! Also bonding knives no give a make their saving throw invulnerable because their devotion to Calgar is that strong.

>>14125397
I love you Matt Ward. You're a true hero.

Why is everyone ripping on the good things in the Tau. You are all trying to fix things that arent crap.
Things that are crap.
Ethereal
Vespid
Skyray
Ion Cannon

>>14125431
Shut up, ionheads are great. They're only living under the shadow of broadsides and railheads.

>>14125431
You forgot Gue'vasa, every other kroot, and drones.

>>14125436
I typically take the Ion Cannon because it's cheaper, and because I can't hit with the rail gun.

I put my Tau force away when 5e came out. Mostly out of life getting in the way, but I have not felt a real desire to get back to them. I feel a new codex is a good point to try.

Fire Warriors need some work. They either need a better stat-line, like BS4 or a price drop.

Give us back Hammerheads with Railgun AND Burst Cannons. Due to the sub-munition shot, those secondary weapons only get fired if the railgun is destroyed. Ever.

Make Vespid more viable. They are so particular and expensive. Maybe others can field them properly and do some real damage with them, but I cannot.

Kroot are essentially fine, as is, but it would be nice to have more of the Kroot Mercs incorporated into the codex, along with Gue'vesa Auxiliaries.

Maybe give us another alien. GW has already mentioned the Deimurg and Nicassar as other members of the Empire, why not give us some of their troops? (Well, the Nicassar are born space-travellers, so they may not go planetside) Or, hell, make one up.

Ascetically speaking, the suit models really blow hard. Some of the newer Forge World suits would work well, but these top-heavy chicken feet things gotta go.

Ethereal Units. Has anyone taken an Ethereal Unit with Honor Guard? It just does not seem worth it.

Farsight is awful. He is a limiting character and his own stat-line does not make it worth his downfalls.

I really hope they fix up Tau. I really enjoyed the list in 3e and 4e.

>>14125471
I take an Ethereal Unit sometimes. But only for looks because I did a conversion job using High Elf skirts. The unit looks awesome and if I had a camera I would love to take a pic.

Tau have mainly fought Orks. Tau use Kroot, Kroot eat there enemies therefore Kroot have mostly been eating Orks. Eaten enemies are incorperated into the Kroot's genetic make up.

Seems like a good reason to make Kroot better at CC.

Bumpan for Tau Talk.

They are supposed to get a Codex soon, no?

>>14126249
If by soon you mean December-ish then yes.

>>14126277
Isn't that an eraly estimate?

>>14126453
The new Tau codex is planned for Q4 2011.

1. Remove markerlight rules and reassign various aspects of them as special rules for Command Suits, Pathfinders and Stealthsuits as buffs and debuffs they can give out.

2. New Battlesuits, both in terms of models and rules. Make the oldest version of battlesuits troop choices while new ones are HQ, Elite and Heavy Support.

3. Fix the prices of everything to better refect their potency under the current and suspected 6th edition rules. No reason to doubt 6ths is on its way in the next two years, it will be out shortly after all the books are updated which is soon.

I would like to see Marker Lights not count as Heavy. Or at least see how it would play out, it would definitely be a power boost for sure.

I would also like to see Tau snipers be strengthened a bit, not sure how though.

btw, Ork player here but I play against Tau all the damn time.

>>14126878
>give tau a whole bunch of special issue equipment designed for 5th edition.
>Release 6th edition 1 year later
>most equipment is now useless
>problem tau

Eldar are the real weaboo

vespid should lose fleet, and gain hit and run and feel no pain. (feel no pain plays up the whole hive aspect, think of a bumble bee that is more than willing to die stinging its assailant)

Hmm three things only...

One. Basic weapons changed. Pulse Rifle is now Heavy 2 and the carbines Assault 2 no pinning. This also helps fix the vehicles shooting nerf and makes gun drones decent.

Two. Price adjustments more fitting to Fifth.

Three. Suits redone. Last dex had exerimental gear that is now common, add BS to make more fitting to fluff, possible new wargear For XV8 that allows for weapons to be fired like warwalkers versus TL BS. For the stealth give them plasma options plus the newly better gun drones.

>>14126998
You mean, 4e to 5e all over again?

>>14127089
rifles heavy 2. No thanks i prefer more mobile firewarriors.

and i do not want to put carbines on all of my already painted firewarrior sqauds.

>>14127160
exactly,

also all the fun stuff tau have end up being given to all the other factions anyways. I remember a time when st10 was rare, i also remember a time when forgeworld had experimental rules for a fusion blaster hammerhead with a melta blast.

who gets a melta blast?

Guard.

fucking assholes.

Actually going H2A2 makes you MORE mobile in firepower terms. You mke a mix of half and half and you are better or equal at every range to a curent squad of the same size. Modelwise it cannot be helped. Someone will suffer with each new dex (lol Id carnifex).

Refluff and retcon them as Reasonable Humans

Get the Japanese to redesign all the ugly models into something more like from Evangelion Battlesuits and Halo Spartans.

Rename them as Kae'Moda Republic

>>14127441
No that is stupid, we don't need that mary sue faction crap in here.

>>14127441
HOW DARE YOU SORCERER

>>14127398
except assault 2 18" is much much better than heavy 2 30".

especially for a heavy army. the 30" range bonus fucks up as soon as the enemy starts closing (i.e. the first turn) while the 18" assault 2 means an effective 24" threat radius and the ability to retreat back and shoot.

NO ONE would take pulse rifles, especially since you could only stand and shoot with them.

maybe a heavy 2 30" and assault 1 12" split profile. but having a full troops choice with only heavy weapons seems fucking retarded.

especially in a mobile list like tau.

Nerf all guns.

Take away some kroot units.

Add fluff about Tau get their asses kicked by the Dark Eldar and 'Nids.

>>14127441
OK I was joking about the last bit but I am very serious about the first one.

WE NEED A REASONABLE HUMAN faction. The Imperium are pigdisgusting Nazi-commie-taliban-christfags. It's the worst most ugliest representation of future humans imaginable. The only thing worse are the teenage cretins who wank over them in HFY.

The Tau are a silly concept anyway, why not replace them with a Human Greater Good instead? I can live with HFY when we aren't the Nazis.

> add BS to make more fitting to fluff
Where, god damn it, where can I find quote that blueskin is superior marksman? They just have superior weapons and armor and relies on it greatly, and so cowardly that they can't bitchslap even grot. No BS 4 for coward blueskins, never.

>>14127590
Thats kind of the point of 40k.

"Everyone is an asshole"

>>14127590
>reasonable
>human

I don't think you know what humanity is like. Do you get out much?

>>14127590
thats the whole fucking point of the tau, they're a terrifying dystopian future government with a taste of the star wars federation, and they're supposed to fill the role that humans play in many many other sci-fi universes (the upstarts).

the best part about the tau being aliens is that its a good contrast with how far humanity has fallen, the setting puts a lot of emphasis on the fall of the human empire.

>>14120080

>I give Ethereals the ability to grant Hit and Run to every model within 12" of them plus a handful of abilities similar to IG Command Squads that let them do things like Reroll missed Hits, shoot twice and the like.

>I give Firewarriors and ability that lets them get a free round of shooting any turn in which they are assaulted at the first thing that assaults them. If they do this, they loose the ability to strike back in close combat. Plus their price is dropped to 8 Points each and they come with EMP grenades and Bonding Knives

>Crisis Suits become WS2 BS4 S4 T5 W2 I2 A2 LD9 3+ Save. They also come with Bonding Knives.

>If I could change one other thing, I would change Drones so that, when a unit uses Hit and Run and they have Drones in their squad, Hit and Run automatically works but the drones die in the process. When the drones die, they explode in a 3" blast template that's S5 AP5. Plus Drones are fearless.

>>14127590
>WE NEED A REASONABLE HUMAN faction.
Why? Why do we need reasonable humans? THIS IS A GAME THAT NEEDS TO TAKE PLACE ON A TINY FUCKING BOARD SO THAT PEOPLE ARE STILL IN FUCKING MELEE RANGE OF EACH OTHER. WE DO NOT NEED "REASONABLE HUMANS". THERE IS LITERALLY NO REASON, EITHER IN FLUFF OR IN GAMEPLAY, TO INCLUDE REASONABLE HUMANS. THEY WOULDN'T BE INTERESTING EITHER BECAUSE THEY WOULD LITERALLY LOOK LIKE HUMANITY IN A NORMAL SCI-FI SETTING. FUCK.

>>14127618
When I mean "reasonable", I mean "shoot-you-in-the-face-at-long-range-reasonable" as opposed to "club-them-with-a-sharp-bit-of-metal-retarded" that is standard practice for the all other 40k factions.

reasonable as in applying R&D to improve technology instead of relying worshipping the holy hand grenades,

read the IG primer for utter stupidity

>>14127717
Yeah, it's almost like they needed the game to play like a fantasy game using medieval-level technology, only shifted slightly to represent tanks and planes and all of that!

But you're right, of course, I'm sure "having a space fantasy theme that permeates literally the entire setting" is no match for "humans who for some reason aren't bound by the same rules as everyone else".

By the way, in-universe, things do have reasonable ranges. It just doesn't play that way, because that's impossible.

>>14127717
>read the IG primer for utter stupidity
DON'T EVEN DARE TO TALK ABOUT THE HOLY BOOk, FILLED WITH EMPRA'S WISDOM LIKE THIS, HERETIC! YOU CURSED XENOS EAT OUR CHILDREN IN HORRIFIC RITUALS FOR YOUR STINKY WARLORDS.

>>14127677

I don't really see Tau as "dystopian" in the same way that the Imperium is "dystopian." Tau just seem more like a real government system, even if they are being coerced into things by the Ethereals they still have have individual wills and stuff. They are just part of a quietly oppressive society which, though it forces them into roles to better fit the community as a whole, isn't just a terrible shit hole to live in. It's just sort of neutral, not horrifying like parts of the Imperium tends to be. It reminds me more of a real life communist state where, people can be happy or prosperous but it is essentially a normal government instead of a cartoonishly evil one.

40k = grimdark
Tau = noblebright

The tau should go back to star trek

>>14127746
it looks nice in comparison to everything else in 40k, but in reality an empire like the tau on earth would be extreme totalitarian.

I mean it has caste for fucks sake, and they give ultimatums of join us or die.

Dude its like the nazi's except if the nazi's made jews the commerce caste instead of just the get gassed caste.

If you're a firewarrior you're litterally born to die, and you go through "trial by fire" i.e. get sent into a battle zone and if you survive enough times you're given a battle suit, wash rinse and repeat until you die.

There are reasonable humans worlds in 40k. Or at least there are until they encounter the Imperium at which point they will get toasted for heresy.

Interex, Diasporex, Auretian Technocracy, Adrantis etc all eradicated by the Imperium.

I suggest a Codex for those few human worlds that still hold out against Imperial tyranny

>Dude its like the nazi's except if the nazi's made jews the commerce caste instead of just the get gassed caste.

QFT.

>>14127777
> noblebright
No no no. Tau is grimdepr, if you think a little. Imperium of man was at the same stage long time ago, and it resulted in Horus Heresy. Tau is strong as long as they control literally nothing in Imperium's scale of dominion over galaxy. Soon Tau will start there own civil wars. Well, there already was one, you know. And some badass claimed worlds for himself, not for T'au. Tau's utopia is very likely to collapse, and that is grimderp. That even excellent leadership and fearful technology can not prevent such things.

>>14127784

yeah but there is also a working class and everything. Not to mention, there have been real societies like that on Earth where, you are pretty much born into whatever class you are in and if you start shit, you get your head chopped off.

Really, it is very similar to old Japanese society where there were warrior castes which ruled most of everything and peasant classes which did all the work and there was very little intermingling. Or even Medieval society with Knights and Barones who treated commoners as free labor. It's limiting but in reality, it's something that happens.

Plus, they do train Fire Warriors. Tau aren't just stupid. I mean, it is totally illogical to just throw untrained grunts into the field unless the need was utterly dire. I think the Tau just live in a very class restrictive society where individual honor tends to override people's will to speak out. This coupled with the idea of being pheromone controlled is just a way for the upper society to keep everything in check.

I don't think it's dystopian because in my mind, dystopian society is something that's even more oppressive than something that actually exists and I don't see Tau as being that. The Imperium is dystopian where every human being is forced to be devoted to one being and to not is grounds for execution. Tau, I think, think they are doing the right thing generally. They don't see their own society as a crushing existence, they see it as they are doing what is expected of them and they do it with pride, even if it means to essentially be a serf.

Jews have always been the persecuted moneylender caste in Europe for over a 1000 years now.

Comparing the Tau to the Nazis is quite unfair to the tau. It's more like "regime change".

>>14127847
It doesn't change the fact that they are a joke race and they exist only to get beaten by other races. Get rid of them and give us some reasonable humans who deserve to exist unlike that giant space-north-korea AKA the Imperium of Man

So, saying "Fuck all the /tg/ fucking retard discussion" for a moment...

Three things? If just "Three Units", then:
1.) Ethereals - Make them NOT FUCKING TERRIBLE.
2.) Fire Warriors - Make them more effective.
3.) Stingwings - Make them NOT FUCKING TERRIBLE.

If not just "units", but general changes:
1.) Costs - Reduce 'em.
2.) Units - Reduce the % of "almost completely fucking useless" units in the 'dex, and increase the effectiveness of more standard options.
3.) Options - Increase 'em. More seeker missiles, more markerlight effects, more special characters, more unique effects, more abilities, etc.

>>14127917

>Implying "reasonable humans" in the 40k setting wouldn't just be total jokes waiting to be swallowed up by the nearest crusade/warp incursion/hive fleet/Waagh.

>>14120080
Ugh.... This thread, again.

Listen, Matt, the secret is out. We all know your writing sucks and you can't come up with good ideas to save your life. But you can't just keep asking the same questions of 4chan and cribbing our answers. It's not cool. If you honestly cannot handle being a game dev, do the honorable thing and quit GW.

>>14123403
>Alternately, instead of infinite missiles...
I'm not a fan of infinite skyray missiles. Like, at all.
>...allow sky rays to be taken as Pathfinder dedicated transports.
If you combined this with letting Pathfinders be taken -without- a dedicated transport, and a general reduction in skimmer costs, it would be -awesome-.

Oh, and slap the Marker Beacon on the Skyray too.

>>14120080
You can take Farsight with you NO MATTER HOW MANY POINTS your army is, and you can take ANY NUMBER of Hammerheads/Skyrays/etc with you.

Make stealth suits not suck.

Increase the BS of fire warriors by 1.

Have honor blades count as power weapons so they can bisect a space marine with one blow

Allow all Tau vehicle units to leave the table edge and reemerge as reserves

Allow an all Human list including human piloted close combat battlesuits.

A human piloted stealthsuit with an honor blade >>14127996 would be awesome.


Make drones cheap and spammable. downgrade them to a pulse pistol each so they can be used to replace kroot on table edges and screen FW from melee attacks.

Time for fluff considerations!

1.) More Other Races
Humans? In the Tau? Yes. And other smaller races. Every other 40k faction is (essentially) single-race - make them Tau more -unique-, by integrating -other- races in a more obvious fashion. You have three easy ones to start out with - Kroot, Vespids, and Humans. Add more!

2.) Keep Their Fluff Unique
By which I mean, -DON'T- make them more "grimdark" - at least not overtly. Make them unique in that they are (at least internally, in their own codex) presented as a reasonable, "good", race. Make "grimdark" shit -SUBTLE- for them, as it is now in the codex - -suggestions- (without ever EVER stating it) that the Ethereals may have more than just Diplomatic control; the same for -potential- atrocities. Hell, take a cue from American history books - play down or don't mention the horrible, horrible things done in the past, while emphasizing how OMG GREAT they are.

3.) Integrate the Military Fluff into the Army
Bring some of the Tau tactical fluff into the wargame in a more real sense. Special rules, different unit tactics - things like that. Focus them around the concepts described in the book, or let the player build his own army to focus around a concept in a more obvious fashion. The concept of "No Dishonor in Retreat" has always stuck out to me the most, as something really -different- about the Tau tactically. Take that, and the "Don't Hold -Ground- - Win -Wars-" concept, and really integrate it into the army.

>>14123290
But..
but...
:C

>>14128297
Let the Tau auto fallback

>>14128363
>Let the Tau auto fallback
Yeah, I think it's a good (and obvious) solution as well.

I also like the suggestion someone had above, and think they pair [EXTREMELY] well together:
>>14128014
>Allow all Tau vehicle units to leave the table edge and reemerge as reserves.
Make it all units - or all units with a certain special rule - and I'm sold.

>>14128297
>Take that, and the "Don't Hold -Ground- - Win -Wars-" concept,

instead of having to hold points, the tau have to keep a number of units alive until the end of the game, the number equal to the number of points on the table.

>>14128401
I'd allow it to all vehicles with speed of 12"+
Bikes, gravtanks and flyers get a +1 to the reserve roll

>>14128430
Meh, changing their interaction with entire game types (objectives) seems a bit much. After all, "objectives" aren't always "hold ground" anyways.

Just an increase to general mobility would likely be enough to get the idea across. With the other rules discussed above, you could probably hit both of these at once.

>>14128459
Eh, I wouldn't restrict it to so few units - it would be fine on infantry and such, really. Maybe have a few restrictions on the rule generally though:
>Unit does not get a reserves roll on the next turn (skip a turn before it can re-deploy).
>[Maybe] Units cannot re-deploy via Deep Strike or Outflank.
Though I might consider allowing -some- to re-deploy via outflank.

>>14128430
Tau count all unclaimed objectives within the firing range of a Tau unit as Tau held.

"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his"

-Shas'O Pak Ton

The idea is that Tau treat the objectives as bait and are happy to let the other side fight their way through hails of railgun slugs only to die 1" away from their objective.

>>14128516
>Tau count all unclaimed objectives within the firing range of a Tau unit as Tau held.
Lol, oh damn, I'm going to propose that rule. Fuck, even just for a particular scenario, it would be entertaining as hell.

>>14128497
The whole point of those rules to stop Tau players using devilfish as floating walls and start using them for actual manoeuvring like extracting a squad of FW pinned on one table corner and reappearing on the opposite side of the table. The Tau are fluffed as a mobile army except that they aren't played that way.

Allowing infantry to do would be silly because they just can't move that fast.

>>14128542
What would be the gimmick of Eldar if Tau had mobile and relatively tough scimmers? Tau would also have stronger shooting and most of the Eldar close combat ability is subpar so that doesn't really even it out.

>"Don't Hold -Ground- - Win -Wars-
Tau units that have fled off the table edge can roll 2d6 against their LD each turn. Success means the Tau units rally and can rejoin the fight as reserves.

Basically, Tau treat the table edge merely a part of an expanded warzone

>>14128587
Why Marneus Calgar have not though about this.
Next SM codex would allow you do that.
Tau can keep with the dead-walking gun lines.

>>14128542
Well, I think the point of it would need to remain "Retreat and come back", not "Maneuver off of, and around, the board."

>Allowing infantry to do would be silly because they just can't move that fast.
Eh, it's no sillier in 40k than allowing Devilfish to do so. 'Fish aren't actually much faster than infantry are capable of - 12"/round vs. 6" + d6" (run) or 6" (assault).

>>14128612
Can't you just give them deepstrike, outflank and scout? Then Tau could choose where they set their gunline down but still wouldn't be mobile after deployment.

>>14128612
yah but I'm trying to turn fluff into playable mechanics. Not turn flawed rules into even more badly flawed rules.

An Abram M1A2 can go 70mph and shoot targets 5miles away. but the limitations of TT gaming will reduce them to 12" and 24" range guns.

>>14128642
Well, we're hammering on their "fluff" tactics. I'm not sure how what you're describing there would get across either of:
"No Dishonor in Retreat"
or
"No Value in Territorial Gain"
[I'm looking at page 13, for people following along at home.]

>>14128642
I confess I'm not actually a Tau player but every Tau players I've seen basically hides in one table corner and use devilfish and piranhas as floating bricks to slow down enemy melee units.

Fluffwise, I think the Tau should have more mobile and fluid battle line (like modern armies do in real life).

Battlesuits play like apache attack helos which is fine but the rest of the army is pure ww1 gunline.

By allowing off table edge manoeuvring, I hope the tau players will be less tight about table corners and move their vehicles a bit more. They know they can always bug out at the table edge.

Fuck this three things bullshit. CHANGES CHANGES EVERYWHERE

Fire Warriors: These guys suck donkey balls at the moment. I'm making them 10 points, and they get the old IG Sharpshooters rule - they're still BS3 but they get to re-roll ones. Shas'ui may take Sniper Drones with a Drone Controller.

Devilfish are not recosted, but come with Marker Drones in the the cradles as standard, and all have the Pathfinder's Devilfish re-roll scatter when deepstriking thing.

Pathfinders. They go up in cost to 18 points each. They get Stealth, and no longer need to take a Devilfish.

Stealth Suits: Stealth Field goes back to halving the distance rolled at night. Stealth suits get the goddamn Stealth USR. They get the option to take plasma guns for +10 points a model.

(cont..)

>>14128699
(cont)

Ethereals - Fuck this whole table penalty and only LOS bonus shit. Price of Failure only affects units in LOS when he carks it. Inspiring Presence affects the whole board, regardless of LOS. Ethereals have the option to take a Hardwired Shield Generator at +20 points, or a Hover Platform that changes their unit type to Jet Infantry (so that the Space Pope model isn't a complete waste).

Scrap all special characters but Farsight. Space Pope goes away forever. Shadowsun is replaced by a Stealth Commander - has a Stealth field, gives the option for battlesuits in his force to purchase Stealth fields at +15 points per battlesuit - it uses a hard point. He's forces the first turn to always be Nightfight.
Space Pope can be replaced by a Crisis Commander which actually has some leadership ability. Command Link or something - Tau units or Units with a Command node can use his Ld so long as he's within 18" of them.

Kroot and Vespid - Strain Leaders and Shapers get Command Nodes. Vespid weapons become Assault 2. Kroot get a 6+ save base, Eaters of the Dead comes back, they get Fleet, and they get an option for a shaping - +2 Ld, +2 Str, +2 Init, or +1 T. Krootox no longer prevents Infiltration, but is not Fleet. Also, Krootox Gun goes to Assault 2, 36" range.

Crisis Suits get more equipment options, reword the rules so that the unambiguous hardpoint terminology comes back. Introduce some new pieces of equipment that take up multiple hardpoints

Crisis Commanders get suits which have 4 Hardpoints instead of 3.

>>14128699
>Fire Warriors: These guys suck donkey balls at the moment. I'm making them 10 points, and they get the old IG Sharpshooters rule - they're still BS3 but they get to re-roll ones.
This sounds fine

>>14128711
(cont)

Markerlights are pared down to three effects: Launch any number of Seeker Missiles, +1 BS and -1Save, or force a Pinning check, even on Fearless models

Options for Broadside and Stealth commanders.

Skyray gets Ripplefire rule, and may fire all seekers as a multiple Barrage weapon.

More Kroot. Okay, I'm running out of ideas now.

Okay, I've seen multiple references to Fire Warriors being 12 points each, or to a "cost reduction" bringing them to 10...

Aren't they 10 points NOW, according to the codex?

>>Make them accept Roboute Guilliman as their spiritual liege

>>14128699
>>14128711
>>14128747
Y'know, normally I prefer my own fandex crap to that of others.

But fuck, I may just use all of your suggestions. They're quite fucking good, and don't involve any "Fire Warriors get Heavy Weapons" [aka "fuck the existing fluff"] bullshit.

Two thumbs up, man.

>>14128804
Holy shit you're right. It's Pathfinders that are 12 points base.

Bump as I paint my Tau.

Make the Tau more multiracial with mixed race units.

Also more human units.

>>14128542

40k sucks at simulating manoeuvre warfare due to small board and time limits. Both problems that arise from GW's need to push your to fill the table with as many minis as possible.

The Tau EMPIRE conjured up ideas of a multirace army functioning as one, when i first joined 40k i expected that would be the Taus "theme" in addition to having the future-suits and mechas

The actuall army reflects none of this

Add-
-Kroot HQ
-Krootox are added onto Kroot packs, no long seperate
-Kroot special character
-Kroot gnarlac riders (Fast,)
-Greater Gnarlok (Heavy)
-Kroot Snipers (Elite, remove Sniper drones)
-Vespid HQ - (2ndary HQ, cannot lead army alone)
-Vespid Melee based elite unit

Maybe even add the Imperial betrayers as a very cheap troop unit (They become Meatshields, Kroot become useful)

>The actual army reflects none of this.
Well, be fair: The "Tau Empire" includes units from (1) the Tau race; (2) the Kroot race; (3) the Vespid race; (4) the Human race.

That -does- give it, what? Four TIMES as much variety as any other 40k faction?

More options (and more -viable- options) on the tabletop from these other races would be good - GREAT even - but let's not pretend that the Tau -aren't- the most diverse faction -already-.

>>14130909
RACIAL variety, I mean. The actual variety of units that will ever see the tabletop is... well, MUCH lower, as we all know.

>>14130938

Ah, so you want a "United Federation of Planets 40K"-style army.

Too bad that Tyranids, Chaos, Orks and Eldar would never join the Tau, for fairly obvious reasons.

I bet the Squats would've LOVED theTau...

>>14130985
Well to be fair the Eldar might join or at least think about it (Not entire race maybe just a craft world) the Tau if the Tau knew at least half the shit that happens in the universe.

Tau in the eyes of an Eldar is like a child wanting to drive a car it is cute but it would be stupid to actually let them do it.

>>14130985
Kind of? I guess?
I don't think you'd see much racial -mixing- (no units of Tau fighting side-by-side with others), just because of how the Tau are presented (y'know, kind of like dicks).

But yeah, having the Tau Empire contrast with the Imperium in its willingness to absorb other races.

>>14123471
NOW YOUR GETTIN' IT!

>>14128747
Hell, I just came back and read this and realized that I didn't explain Markerlights too well.

By "-1 Cover and +1 BS" that's a cumulative bonus on the affected unit, by all Tau or Command Node units in the army. So when you need to have a unit die, you drop a bunch of Markerlights on it, and you fire your whole army at it.

Markerlights in this case would be an enemy debuff per token spent rather than a per unit buff for friendly units firing on the affected unit.

>>14131634
That seems like... well, -huge- bonuses.

>erase Tau
>work on AdMech codex
>why do I need a third, FUCKING ADMECH CODEX

I need this as a playable army.

NO NEW DEDICATED ASSAULT UNIT

NO OVERALL BS UPGRADE FOR FIREWARRIORS

FIREWARRIOR SQUAD LEADER SHOULD BE LEADERSHIP 9 AND BS4 AND THE MARKERLIGHT HE HAS SHOULD ALSO HAVE SECONDARY FIRING PROFILE WHICH IS ASSAULT 1 RANGE 24" (FOR WHEN HE'S PART OF A CARBINE FIREWARRIOR SQUAD)

INSTEAD OF HAVING PULSE CARBINES AS FREE REPLACEMENTS FOR RIFLES MAKE THEM COST +2PTS BUT HAVE A PROFILE OF ASSAULT 2

MAKE PATHFINDERS NOT REQUIRE A FUCKING DEVILFISH

MAKE ALTERNATE MARKERLIGHT FIRING PROFILE OF ASSAULT 1 @ 24"

SUITS SQUAD LEADER SHOULD HAVE LD9
SUITS SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE 3 DRONES PER CONTROLLER
GIVE SUIT THE ABILITY TO FIRE IT'S MARKERLIGHT AT A BS BETTER THAN 3

FIX VESPIDS
GIVE PIRANHAS A MARKERLIGHT (DEFENSIVE WEAPON)
GIVE PIRAHNAS THE ABILITY TO TAKE OTHER WEAPONS SUCH AS PLASMA RIFLES, MISSLE PODS, AND FLAMERS

SKYRAY SHOULD HAVE MORE MISSLES

CREATE A DUAL PROFILE FOR SMART MISSLES

STRENGTH 8 AP3 ORDNANCE (TO HELP IT KILL VEHICLES)

STREMGT 4 AP5 BLAST

FIXED
ALSO NO KILL POINTS FOR DRONE SQUADS WHICH COME FROM VEHICLES
DRONES FEARLESS
DRONE CASUALTIES DO NOT COUNT TOWARDS LEADERSHIP TEST (IF THIS IS ACCEPTED THE LD8 WOULD BECOME ACCEPTABLE AGAIN)

HQ:
Ethereals modified to be a bit more beneficial
If you take an ethereal you can add to his honor guard the following units like imperial advisors.
-Water caste war correspondent (all tau within 12" are fearless, or any outflankers suffer d6 st3 wounds, something to represent propaganda)
-air caste (+1 to reserve rolls)
-earth caste (drones within 12" have feel no pain)
-Auxiliary commander (good combat statline, can be any type of alien auxiliary leader, each with its own options, provides ethereal bonus except for all auxiliaries)

Elites
Add elite auxiliary unit

Troops:
firewarriors made cheaper and/or given grenades as standard. carbines changed to a split profile of assault 2 or assault 1 pinning.
kroot can pay for the various kinderd.

Add human auxiliary regiments. basically imperial guard squads, possibly make their unit bigger 12-18 guardsmen, with a few basic options.

Fast attack.
Looks good to me. make drones fearless
vespid should be stripped of fleet, and be given feel no pain and hit and run.

Heavy support.
make skyrays cheaper, and have several different types of seeker missiles. with skyrays having choice of any of them at a premium.
make an auxiliary heavy support

make marker lights more accessible.
more experimental systems and equipment
markerlight upgrade for vehicles.

3? I only need one.

Gue'vasa Auxillary - Squat.

I like the idea of FireWarriors having old IG sharpshooter rules. Some sort of unit should be able to shoot into CC, perhaps it could be a markerlight effect.

HQ: Stealth, broadside commanders. Kroot Master Shaper. Better Ethereals. You know, the basics. I also approve of adding a larger dreadnought esque suit too fast for heavy support but too hard hitting for fast attack. Either here or in elite.

Elites. I would like cheapers suits, or at least cheaper weapons on em. As good as they are, they never seem to leave much of a footprint on the battlefield.
Cheaper stealth suits. I can't think of much besides that. Oh, and better crisis models.

Troops: I like the IG sharpshooter rule, but I also entertain the idea of FWs having a 16 inch rapid fire range. Get kroot their damn merc options. Seriously. shits badass. Also, plastic kroot hounds. Any human auxilieries need a solid role. Meatshields should have no place in the tau army.

Fast attack: Why are pathfinders even here really? Oh well. Stealthfield, and not having a mandatory useless devilfish will go a long way. Vespids need a solid cost reduction, or to be much tougher. Drones could do with more versatility and options. I like pirannahs but don't own any. Cant talk for em.

Heavy: I like this section personally. Skyrays need more missiles. I feel multiple varieties would help, but the idea never interested me much. Our tank is already kick ass, and I don't wanna mess with it. Broadsides are pretty gnarly as is. Sniper teams need to be cheaper though, and they need to use the pathfinder rail rifle model, who else fucking loves that model?

I wanna make sniper teams out of pathfinder snipers, but need to find something to model the spotter and some way to make camo cloaks.

1. Power armoured kroot (they'd be like minature Evas with jump-packs).

2. Gun platform drones that replace broadsides.

3. Suicide Bomb drones that, once detatched and activated, have similar effects to biovore spores.

>>14135484
>Suicide Bomb drones
We call them missiles

>>14135484
yeah the suicide bomb drone is stupid

just make markerlight more ubiquitous and give missles a dual weapon profile (anti tank anti hoard)

allow the expendature of a single marker token to fire multiple missles as long as they come from the same vehicle

The entire Tau race and all its allies, tortured by its adjacency to the glorious realm of Ultramar, reminding it that they will never be Ultramarines, kills the Ethereals and recognizes Marneus Calgar as its spiritual Ethereal. Bring blue already, they brand themselves with the Ultramarine symbol and tattoo it onto their faces. They rename themselves the Ultratau (and Ultrakroot, Ultravespids, Ultrademiurg, et cetera) and ever aspire to even approach the glory of these superlative Space Marines, greatest of all Man's defenders.They of course realize this is a fool's errand, as mere xenos could not ever deign to be even fractionally as wondrous as the true bearers of Guilliman's geneseed, so suicide is common among these pitiful misbegotten things.
And the Ultramarines don't even give a fuck.

>>14135593
Ultramarines are just envious Dark Angels have their own xeno race servants in The Rock.

>>14135593
Matt Ward,

I will kill you and anyone you have ever loved in the entirety of your miserable existence.

>>14135600
The true secret of the Dark Angels is that some of their number refuses to follow the Codex Astartes laid down by Roboute Guilliman, greatest of all primarchs and a far better leader than Lion El'Jonson. These are known as the Fallen.

>>14135603
Hey!
...At least he isn't Ian Watson.

>>14135630
Ian Watson writes good stories. Name ONE (1) thing wrong with them without mentioning his coprophilia. Or, you know, the fact that half that shit has been retconned.

>>14135619
The true fact of the Ultramarines that they'd like to have a secret, but aren't very good at hiding, is that they don't follow the Codes Astertes. Hell, in some ways they abuse the letter of it worse than even DA or SW, and they absolutely rape the spirit of it, then shit on its body and slit its throat.

>>14135638
I really think his scat fetish he throws in 90% of his stories really counts as that ONE(1) thing that makes him an extremely bad writer.

Unless if you like shit. Then that would be the ONE(1) thing that would make him an extremely good writer.

>>14135657
But of course the Ultramarines are greatly pained by every occurrence of this, which is done solely to safeguard Mankind as only Guilliman's Sons can.

I can do this all day.

>>14135661
The farting bit is one paragraph in a book of about two hundred pages.
If that ruins EVERYTHING, you must not enjoy many books.

>>14135630
>>14135638
>>14135661
waitaminutewaitaminute

This Ian Watson writes or wrote for GW in some capacity? And he has a scat fetish?

Holy Fucking Shit. <----I posted that on purpose

SQUAT THE TAU
SQUAT THE SISTERS OF BATTLE
UNSQUAT THE SQUATS.

OPTIONAL: JERK OFF SOME MORE ALL OVER A SINKING SHIP BECAUSE WHY NOT?

>>14135661
... I do not remember this. Considering I just read the Inquisition War again recently, that is somewhat worrying... Did I miss something? Is my memory going?

>>14135722
It isn't in Inquisition War at all, actually. The genestealer shitting is in a short story of his.
We're talking about Space Marine.

>>14135728
4. With the Orks.
5. With the Slaugth
6. With the Hrud
7. With the Noisome Reek
Seriously, ANYTHING is gold.

>>14135671
Amazingly many of my books I do enjoy reading don't have scat fetishes in them, so you are correct on that sir.

You reap what you sow man. The book was immature, and now that I look back on it with a bit of age and experience it was really messed up.

And yeah, don't mention the bad ass assassin who shape shifted into a genestealer and then had a big problem with SHITTING HERSELF.

Pic related on a few levels.

>ITT People who own either Tau or Eldar/Dark Eldar armies.

Honestly, only idiots care.
I bought my first WH40K unit a few weeks ago, and am still in the process of painting it; a Tau Empire Piranha. I love the way this race looks and I couldn't have asked for a better suited army for myself since I tend to go for ranged combat in most gaming scenarios. Nevertheless, since I chose the race I've been hearing "space communists" and "weaboos" being thrown at me as if people think I could give a care in the world. It's my army, I love it, I build it, the end.

>>14135838
Not quite sure what you're saying BUT

Yeah, the folks who seem to HATE HATE HATE Tau, and want them changed/removed really never seem to get that they're (clearly) not -FOR- them. Oh fuck, a race that appeals to a group that isn't me? KILL IT! Someone is having fun that isn't the same as MY fun? FUCK THAT!

Then again, I think it's a purely 4chan thing. Every 40k player I've ever met has been really cool about whatever the hell you play, maybe with some friendly "in character" hate, but nothing serious. Helpful bros, willing to chat about the hobby side of things and share their experiences and tips, the lot of them.

>>14137539
It's about the theme and standards of the setting. People would "have fun" if a sparkling pony faction was added, but that doesn't mean it's sensible or should be included. You can justify anything through "have fun", but you're skimming over the fact that an existing franchise has now been permanently altered in a way that can NEVER BE UNDONE.

>>14137567
Damn man, take your anti-depressants already.

Tau aren't some infinite joy joy blight upon your grimdark, that's just the idiot's who don't pay attention to their own fluff.

Those people are just like those kids who brag about how pure and incorruptible their Space Marines are.

>>14139959
>Tau aren't some infinite joy joy blight upon your grimdark
They're clean and shiny because they're largely immune to the bad things that happen.

That's about it. That's all you need. They don't work based on the logic of the setting.

>>14139995

If there is one thing 40K never had, it's logic.

>>14139995
>They're clean and shiny because they're largely immune to the bad things that happen.
No, they're "clean and shiny" because they're "new" within the setting, you magnificent retard.

You might as well be saying "My dog is immune to bullets, because nobody has shot it yet."

They're not "immune" to shit - they're inexperienced.

>>14139995
>That's about it. That's all you need. They don't work based on the logic of the setting.
Mostly because I'm curious...

-What- "logic of the setting" do they not work by?

>>14140576
The logic where there's huge galactic threats overrunning entire worlds.

The Tau are a tiny empire and take a few losses against the Tyranids or Orks or whatever, but they never really feel threatened. If they're as small as they're supposed to be, every invasion should be a big deal.

>>14140067
That is a fantastic analogy.

>>14135838
exactly, fuck the haters, tau vehicles are fucking dead sexy.

>>14140691
Thanks, I like it myself.

>>14140641
>The Tau are a tiny empire and take a few losses against the Tyranids or Orks or whatever, but they never really feel threatened. If they're as small as they're supposed to be, every invasion should be a big deal.
What the fuck are you even talking about? What "invasions" are played off as "not a big deal"?