Well, I guess it's just to deviate from the normal campaigns, where all of you are Goody-Two Shoes.

...In reality, I don't know either. I've always just played the one that people can't see if he's good or bad.

You know how your boss will never respect you, people who disagree with your politics will never bother to listen to you, religion will never help you, and the world will laugh at you after it's done spitting on you and kicking you in the gutter?

Wouldn't it feel nice, really really nice, if, instead of just having to take that from them, you could just grab them by the throat and tear off their balls?

all it takes to be "evil" in the eyes of the world is to be selfish, which is pretty fucking easy, and which many many people manage effortlessly IRL.

>>13532759
No. Because I'm emotionally mature.

>>13532693

It's a chance to take out frustrations for most, who play evil campaigns. (Blowning stuff up, killing people, bitches n whores)

But for others it's a good chance to become the mastermind, instead of a peddling hero fighting against a mastermind.

Having only really played one Evil character, I'm not sure I'm particularly qualified to answer that. I generally play neutral, self-interested characters. There was the one serial-killing Nosferatu, but that was only in a one-off, fun as it was to be creepy as all hell, it wouldn't have been a character I'd have liked to play in the long term.

One of my ongoing characters is definitely verging on "Evil" though, having deliberately spread a horrible, murderous death-spirit just so he could get The Truth out there. That sort of evil's always fun. The sort of evil that wholeheartedly believes he's doing good, and that no amount of sacrifice (including his own) is too much.

I think part of the reason people like to play evil characters is because Evil ought to win, but they rarely do. By playing an evil character in most games, you're setting yourselves up as The Antagonists to be defeated. Evil characters are often the underdogs in plot-terms, if not in terms of logic.

Given the chance to play as, say, an Imperial character in a Star Wars game, I'd jump at the chance. They were clearly the good guys.

To be perfectly honest, I absolutely love chaotic evil characters. I don't care what moralfags have to say about it and frankly, I don't care what immoralfags say to try and justify a personality like that. Some of us just wholeheartedly enjoy slaughter for the sake of slaughter, harming for the sake of harming because, well, we can't get away with it in real life.

As much as I embrace my inner monster, I would never actually admit it or act it out in public. People who speak outright in the defense of evil are always idiots and shouldn't be taken seriously. I'm not trying to defend it either, I'm just pointing out that we like evil characters because we know if given the same circumstances and a position of power we would act the same way.

tl;dr evil is fun but don't be so obvious about it or you'll be spending the rest of your life in the pokey.

I'm not good at sociopathic-evil either, OP.

>>13532775

Denial isn't mature.

>>13532804
I honestly have never, ever had a single thought like that. Sure, i get frustrated, but then I calm and find my center.

I suggest you do the same.

Because sometimes being the necromancer is a lot of fun.

>>13532693
In my evil campaign, I'm starting up Scientology.

Except I'm basing it off of an evil religion. And I'm an undead being who wears a white robe and a porcelain mask who's convincing people to give me their money in the name of the god of Ghouls.

It's good for a laugh.

>>13532817
>he doesn't indulge in fantasies of rape, mass murder, etc.
>laughingwhores.jpg

"Emotionally Mature" Doesn't mean "Emotionally Dead."


Injustice is one of the major triggers of anger, and anger is generally a motivation towards violence.

An emotionally mature person masters himself and does NOT castrate his evil boss. But he DOES feel like it sometimes.

>>13532835
Just because you're an immoral simpleton dosn't mean everyone else in the world is.

I'd jump at the first chance I got to be a Bond villain. The role itself is empowering.

Crazy maniacal schemes, no fear of any world power, the feeling of superiority and an army of loyal minions not to mention a bad ass #2.

And at the end of it all you will meet Bond, you will have Bond trapped cornered and vulnerable, and you will give a speech, and then turn your back and die.

It's all win-win. Sure you lose to Bond, but only people of worth and ambition are targeted by Bond.

I find messed-up characters interesting. People rarely tell stories from the side of the bad guys or talk about how they feel and how they ended up doing the things they do, so there's more ground to cover there.

>>13532693
Mostly because, how many times can you save the world? It gets old after a while. And besides it is a roleplaying game, part of the fun is playing different roles.
I've always wanted to have group of evil players mess up the world, and then run another game with a different group to save it.

People seem to mistake evil as crazy and pointless.

Characters who aren't just nutjobs usually have a good reason for their actions, and aren't just mindlessly slaughtering and stealing all the time.

I ran an evil campaign once where the characters were working to save their civilization and were all generally decent people. The thing is, they were willing to do absolutely anything to achieve their goals, even if it meant systematically dismantling another society, killing civillians (to instigate a war with neighboring orcs) etc.

They never sacrificed virgins, worshiped devils, or strung up people by their entrails. They saved countless lives... at the cost of many others.


Uh. As for a chaos marine campaign? I dunno, sounds a little strange, but if you have motivations other than MAIM KILL BURN MAIM KILL BURN you might glean some enjoyment out of it.

>>13532847

>Implying morals are universal

>>13532873
>implying fantasizing about murder and horrible mutilation isn't immoral everywhere

>>13532817
>Sure, i get frustrated, but then I calm
>but then
So you HAVE had those feelings, but avoid indulging them. That's fine.
Claiming that you don't have impulses like that in the first place, though? That's asinine.

You can't really put it simply. The reasons for being evil are just as varied as the reasons for being good, aka as infinite as the human consciousness. Could be anything from hardwired to do that (antisocial personality disorder) to simply wanting Item X (the MOST tantalizing and obsessible items known to ALL RACES) more than Joe Average and everything in between.

As you can guess, its kinda hard to pin down, hombre. Probably would have an easier time counting the grains of sand in a desert or clouds in the sky, IMO

>>13532731
I'm not all too much for paladin style good. I generally accept the idea of lesser evil. Hence my OP pic.
>>13532759
This sounds like the philosophy of humans being generally evil, which I don't believe in.
>>13532793
I could see where this was coming from, but in my case I'd start imagining all the pain I'm inflicting on others and since I usually dislike doing unto others what I wouldn't want to experience, I just can't get myself to hurt others (unless they hurt me 1st, that's a different story and it depends on how the others hurt me)

>>13532881

Well there's those Vikings and Gladiators.

Then there's North Korea.

Then there's some tribes in Asia where they believe the only way a boy can become a man is by fucking him in the ass hundreds of times.

It's out of good will you see.

>>13532873
Only because damaged sociopaths like you exist. When people like you are somehow fixed to actually feel empathy like other people the problem will be solved.

>>13532904

MORALS ARE A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT

Take your arbitrary ontological assumptions and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

>>13532904
You're the kind of person that thinks running over hookers in GTA makes me a terrible person.

>>13532912
It shows you have no empathy. Serial murder is just another step to you.

>>13532919

You know what? You're Right! BRB killin' folks.

>>13532904
Look guy... you are being an enormous Ethnocentric, self centered and denying asshole. You act as if there is only on culture an that that is the `right` one. There is no objective right. There is only what a culture perceives to be good. If you´d grown up in a society of baby raping, sycophantic murderers, you´d consider that normal.

Nature vs nurture and all that. You seem to think Rousseau is the modern view on this or something. Pull your head out of your ass and be realistic.

>>13532851

Agreed. It's a shame villains of that stature and nature tend to work with only them in charge, some kind of Bond-villain RPG would be quite interesting.

Evil that imagines itself to be good is, inevitably, the weakest kind of evil.

Ultimately, the only acceptable form of evil is that which is entirely and unapologetically self-serving. In my eyes, it is honesty with oneself that grants strength, regardless of the cause.

Xykon lays it out pretty solid. Evil is about being willing to corrupt anything, regardless of how dear you hold it, in order to get what you want.

>>13532940
>implying ending another's life or forcing yourself upon a nonconsenting child isn't wrong in the eyes of our Lord everywhere.

>>13532865
Yeah this. My view of "evil" atm is kinda obstructed by the fact I'm a lot into wh40k atm. There's chaos evil. The nutjob killmaimburn evil for shits and giggles. And there's the imperium evil. The corrupt people in power evil, the greedy people who run their worlds to death, the inquisitors who kill off entire planets just because there might be heresy somewhere there. And there's the necessairy evil, accepting hive gangers and other scum because they're needed for this or that. Accepting the corrupt governor because if we take him out, the system is gonna fall into anarchy.
I can accept the necessairy evil, but I hate the idea of lolrandumb evil that chaos usually represents.

Sometimes it feels nice to embrace the very feelings we all don't act on.

It's terrible but being an evil character is a great way of showing what can happen if someone takes it too far.

So much faggotry here...
Evil is a matter of PERSPECTIVE, nothing else. Short of lolrandumb chaotic evul retards and real psychopaths, nobody finds themself really evil. As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions and one man's hero is another's villain. They usually both boil down to psychopaths that stepped over piles of corpses to achieve their goal, it's just how that goal and the pile of corpses they've made is looked upon later on that matters. Genghis Khan was a hero to all mongols and a BBEG to say at least to everyone else.
Perspective, perspective.

>>13532693
>tl;dr Why do you like playing evil characters?

Because it allows me to explore aspects of myself in a safe, non-judgemental environment. I can step away from the table and no one there will think I'm really a devil worshiping, order obsessed killer

>>13532970
Which lord? Even if a lord exists, there have been around 3000 deities in existence from the birth of mankind.

Why don't you believe in Zeus? Or the Norse gods that tell you killing people in combat is pretty much the height of fucking glory?

See, there is this character. He'd do anything for his family. Anything. He'd run through hell and back for them.

But he's evil.

Why ? Because however selfless, he'd put the rest of the world in danegr for his own kind. He also wouldn't let them fend for themselves. In short, he could look like a good character, but he's in fact selfish.

>>13532970
Ah... you´re one of those are you? OK, guys, all rational arguments can be disposed off, put away all your science manuals and philosophy manuals and pull out your Theology.

So, how do you justify religious people doing wrong in the face of their god? If they can fail, doesn´t that mean that everyone is fundamentally evil?

>>13532970
>implying children know what's good for them
>implying being a responsible adult doesn't involve forcing your will upon your child and getting them vaccinated regardless of their consent even if it causes them to experience pain and discomfort
>implying the Lord didn't personally tell his priests to bugger boys senseless

>>13532988
Because believing in anyone other than God and our Lord Jesus Christ is heresy and blasphemy.

Hope you enjoy Hell.

>>13532693
You say 'evil' as if it had a definitive, objective meaning. I assure you, it does not. There is nothing that you can think to call 'evil' that would not be declared a great boon and positive influence, viewed from another perspective. Indeed, the word 'evil' as it is most often used, actually translates as 'something against my personal or religious beliefs, or tastes, or opinions, which I have no logical reason to dislike but choose to anyway'. 'good' and 'evil' are arbitrary definitions thrown around by small minds who cannot form coherent arguments. Nothing more.

>>13532693

Because evil characters are often powerful and uncompromising, and that can be fun to play in a setting where you don't have to worry about the ethics or consequences of your actions.

Because good doesn't triumph. Not by a long shot, and it can be interesting to get into the headspace of the sort of monsters who often wind up in positions of power.

Because unrestrained brutal violence can be cathartic.

>>13532970
>He thinks God exists.

Laughingsluts.jpg

>>13533006
>Because unrestrained brutal violence can be cathartic.

Every society has blood sports, ours are just more abstract

>>13533005

Any action that which violates the autonomy of another sentient being.

There, evil in one sentence.

Many evils are necessary. But they remain evil.

Now a good question is why would anyone be evil in a standard DnD setting? The gods are not only real, but you can visit heaven or hell if you're powerful enough.

>>13533031
>Any action that which violates the autonomy of another sentient being.
Like vaccinating your children or living in an interdependent society rather than an every-being-for-itself free-for-all.

>>13533004

I know you're trolling me, but literally if you were born somewhere else, you would believe in a different 'god'.

It certainly gives one a lot more freedom, and can occassionally be utterly hilarious in a comedy evil campaign.

In more serious campaigns, you can often just give the excuse that evil is subjective. If a player comes to me with the typical "Likes killing people for fun, doesn't care about morality." bullshit, I'll tell them to go fuck themselves with a thunder hammer. If they come to me with a character who actually has a reason for acting the way he does, then I'll let it go, because an evil character done well can add a pinch of brilliance to an already good campaign.

Although this set of standards doesn't allow for chaotic evil characters very much... I feel that very little of value was lost.

>>13533004
I would remind you, brother, that our God's orders have hardly been consistent throughout the history of their issuing. God's orders range from murdering cities full of people to allowing oneself to be crucified as a surrogate for mankind's sin, to eating locusts. Frankly, the Good Lord subscribes as firmly to situational morality as the rest of us, and you would do well to acknowledge it.

>>13533005
Much truth in this one. I will think upon this.
>>13533006
>Because unrestrained brutal violence can be cathartic.
Being influenced by wh40k I could say that brutal unrestrained slaughter as done by space marines is cathartic but not evil. But then again as >>13533005 said, it's all a matter of perspective. To some point the xenos/heretics they're slaughtering see them as evil.

>>13533031
>Any action that which violates the autonomy of another sentient being.
Taxation?

>this entire fucking thread

>>13533004
Ogh, if there is a Hell, and it´s like the Christians say it is, I´ll be quite alright, in fact, I think I´ll enjoy it. I fear total nonexistence more then being tortured forever. Not being seems very, very scary to me. Hell? Heh, I´ll get to hang out with every cool atheist who ever existed, and all the stupid religious people aren't there! Fantastic!

>>13532942
A shame that you can only get so close to that kind of evil, but if you put a lot of work you can get close. However, there's never a Bond for you to contend with.

Which is why this game was one of the best games ever.

>>13533004
HERESY! THAT'S EXTRA HERETICAL!

>>13533047

Society is pretty much the definition of necessary evil.

Also children don't count, at least not for the first 4 years or so.

>>13533061
>I fear total nonexistence more then being tortured forever.
What's so bad about Nirvana?

>>13533069
>Also children don't count, at least not for the first 4 years or so.
So it's okay to fuck them then?

>>13533061

I know we're talking about hell, which is pretty silly to begin with, but assuming the place exists, I very much doubt you'd have much time to "hang out."

>>13533060
Also, philosophical discussions about being evil in TRADITIONAL GAMES, is shit rite? Go troll some threads on /b/

>>13533076
he idea of not existing, of not being to perceive anything to just not be... that´s not exactly Nirvana. Just not existing. I´d love to be able to be religious you know? It would help being so certain. But it´s just such utter bullshit... can´t do it.

>>13533086
I myself would be to busy industrializing the place. All these caverns and open lava pits are a terrible safety hazard, the ice desert has got to go, and pitchforks? Really?

Being evil in games and what not usually means your stupid-evil, doing wrong things because it's there and you can do it. It's fun because all the things you can do when you're not restricted to morals. Good can't always triumph over evil, then there would be no evil and no good either.

As for a Chaos Space Marines for DW, that would be an awesome idea. I always found CSM a bit more interesting than normal SM.

>>13533089
Because pointing people to /b/ when you're buttfrustrated is cool.

>>13533086
Sure I would. In pieces, maybe, but I would. I always thought it a pretty silly idea really. I´m dead, right? So what is Satan going to do to me if I attempt to smash his face into a wall? Kill me?Torture me? I´m dead! How can I even feel!

>>13533086
Righteous atheists go in hell too. They just don't get all the eternal torture stuff. Dante's Inferno.

>>13533045
Well, in D&D the evil gods aren't necessarily less powerful than the good ones, and Hell isn't exactly eternal torment; sure, you die and turn into a grub, but there are advancement prospects! You might make it all the way to pit fiend!

>>13533098

Why with just the five-year plan I've outlined here, we can take this nation from using primitive agrarian equipment like scythes and pitchforks for manual labor purposes into a functional industrial power to rival anything the West has to offer!

Thread seems to have derailed into christian/atheist fighting so I'm gonna stop watching now. Thanks for the imput those of you who actually kept to the topic.

>>13533154
And then we'll find an interdimensional portal, meet up with Earth, and then go pillage Heaven for all the shiny valuables.

>>13533031
So all police are evil? They imprison people, in some places they execute them as well. They restrict access to certain places and prohibit many actions which pose no harm to anyone at all.

For that sake, laws in general. All laws must be evil, because they restrict what a person can and cannot do.

By your definition, your own eyes are evil. Our perception filters the way we interact and understand the world around us, restricting the ways in which we are capable of responding to our situations, and restricting our autonomy to be and perceive whatever and however we like.

No, you're not getting off that easily. I re-assert my claim: The word 'evil' is arbitrarily and subjectively used and has no valid definition.

>>13532693

>tl;dr Why do you like playing evil characters?

Never played a "real evil" character according to the absolute moralfaggotry that course through minds and society. But, the characters that I have played, a few of them acting "evil", I did because it was FUN to do.

The character broke knees, hearts, heads and families because it was fun to stand on the other line of order, morals and law. My fellow players were appalled at the behaviour of the character who only acted at his own impulses and desires, but some also realized that it was an interesting, and at times fun character to interact with.

tl;dr cause FUN, breaks up the monotony.

>>13533154
No Stalin, get back to your grave, it failed the last three times you tried, no need to do it again. Mind your own business.

>>13533154
>the joke is that Russia is Hell and slavs are devils

I prefer playing playing Lawful Righteous, personally.

Smitan' evil wherever I find it.

>>13532865
That reminds me of Tigana by Guy Gavriel Kay.

The main characters in that commited many evil acts in order to restore their homeland, but they themselves were good people.

In other words, Evil for good reasons is the best kind.

As for me and my look at evil: I'm in agreement with >>13532957.

It is a bold statement, and I approve of it. There are two kinds of men in this world, men who do what they do because they want to, and men who do what they do because they have to.

The ones who do what they do because it is their actual desire are always more successful. Therefore, the only kind of effectual evil is the sort that performs its activities not as a necessary evil or as a black means to a noble end, but of the sort that genuinely does not care for the moral ramifications of its actions.

I have heard it said many times that nobody in this world believes they are evil. I do not think this is true. I think the moral high-ground is not nearly as strong a human impetus as it is given credit for. The movers and shakers of the world today are men who understand that what they are doing is morally inexcusable, but do not care. You cannot buy food with morality. You cannot buy cars with morality. Your wife does not suck your cock more often when you give her morality for her anniversary. People do not serve you because you are moral.

But money. Money does all this and more. No matter how unwholesome the soul may be after such a life of debauchery as afforded by the ambitious, successful, evil man, can we really say with honesty that his life was spent in vain?

This is the sort of evil I play. I do not play it often, but it is the sort of evil I play. Because sometimes, the world is simply not built for heroes. Maybe, at least, it will be built for a Capitalist.

>>13533170
Shoo, back to /int/ with you. Go preach about glorious Scandinavian master race there.

>>13533004

HERESY!

>>13533063

That game was so much fun. Needed a better cash generation system though, all it had was generating money from catching generic agents in traps, stealing stuff from around the world and I think the hotel you could build.

>>13533098

I dunno, I'd keep the ice desert as a tourist spot. Skiing, ice skating, that kind of thing. The lava pits could be used for geothermal power, as a source of green energy. The whole thing definitely needs some proper health and safety regulations though.

>>13533098
That was Mammon's suggestion in Paradise Lost when he opposed the fallen angels reconquering heaven

>>13533216
Why would it need Health and Safety regulations? I mean, it´s hell. You can´t die there. You´re already dead.

>>13533233
well if Money doesn't suggest that then who the fuck will?

>>13533183
Nobody ever behaves morally because they want to. They do it because they believe they will be punished if they do not. What you are saying boils down to "Good is weak, Evil is strong."
If this is the case, than to what do we owe the existence of good at all? More importantly perhaps, how can we guarantee the existence of good at all? Is all good simply cowardice?

>>13533239
But maybe something DOES happen when you die, like unconsciousness for a century or something. And besides, I want to find that portal to Earth.

>>13533239

Yeah but you know someone is going to sue after falling off a ledge somewhere, and if Hell really is as full of lawyers as people say it is, they're going to have a lot of representation.

>>13533239

Because Nixon died, so now Hell's bureaucracy instituted strict OSHA compliance.
Pointless paperwork and red tape that doesn't actually serve a purpose except as an overwrought mockery of man's works? It wouldn't be Hell without it.

>>13533261
You have just conclusively proven that 40k is hell and that the Administratum was born of Hell´s warped souls.

>>13533247
Yes, actually. We do "good" because it benefits us and WHEN it benefits us. As an english saying goes, "There's no such thing as a free lunch". You do stuff with a certain purpose; mostly because you wish to avoid certain consequences. Like you don't kill a guy because he pissed you off only because you'll get punished for it. Society at large enforces that because nobody wants certain acts to be performed on them.
Also don't bring charity into this, because it's a new concept connected with people having more money than they need and spreading some breadcrumbs around.

>>13533247
Evil consumes itself, while goodness propagates itself. Further, at no point does evil ever seem to actively hunt down and destroy goodness, because it does not desire to.
The history of mankind can best be described as an iceburg of evil being chipped at by ants. They are not so much antithetical concepts, as they are parallel aspects of human nature.

If you ask me as a Catholic, I will say that God created us with free will, and this is simply a test of our strength as his children.

But if you ask me as a mere Serbian, I will say that God created us like this, so that we could build him an ice-sculpture of himself. But that is blasphemy.

Good day, /tg/.

>>13533288
I thought that was canon

>>13533312
You're Serbian? Shit, Balkans has more representation on here than I thought.

>>13533320
...
It is?

Awesome. I´m hopping the Christians were right about this whole afterlife business. Servitorhood, here I come!

>>13533247

I behave morally because I want to. I genuinely feel good when helping people, and feel horrible when hurting others. You can easily argue that this is still selfishly motivated, but whether altruism exists or not is an entirely different argument. Saying that people only act morally out of fear is arrogant, ignorant, and short-sighted, though.

>>13533296
We're hardwired biologically to be altruistic if we can. George Price discovered that kindness was a selective factor in human evolution.
Of course, the discovery also drove him to depression and he sold and donated everything he owned...

>>13533349
So so I. But I believe that is because how I was raised, not because of the fact that I am naturally good or anything. Your environment depends how you think about your actions. Good behaviour is rewarded and gains you respect and bad behaviour is looked down upon. You can pull of bad behaviour if you are skilled and have learned different values or learned to ignore the ones people around you hold- which is indicative of some sort of disorder.

>>13533332
I didn't even know that place was still real. Thought the Soviets ate it after WWII.

>>13533352
I wonder why he found it depressing. From either a religious or secular view, that is a discovery of inspirational quality.

>>13533349
You fear the consequence, the consequence being feeling horrible. Doesn't have to be you get bitchslapped, even though that usually helps.
>>13533352
I don't believe that. People are egoistic by nature because if you have more you can provide more for your children. You have to be able to function in society of course, but altruism? Fuck no, if that was true we'd be living in Marx's wet dream now.

Here's the mindfuck: the "traitor" marines are actually the good guys fighting for freedom against the Anathema's psychic slavery.

In the warp, "life" and "death" are relative terms. Ritual sacrifices liberate the blessed sacrificed into the hands of gods.

"Traitors": American Revolutionaries
Imperium: Britain
CSM: Red Coats
King George: Emprah

It makes complete sense.

>>13533383
They didn't really eat it. They just fused it together with, like, Montenegro and Croatia to form Yugoslavia. It broke up after the Cold War.

>>13533399
>CSM: Red Coats
I of course meant VanillaSM = Red coats

>>13533399
Didn't King George only speak German? Emprah is totally some sort of proto-turk.

>>13533399
Uh, minor detail, but the Redcoats were the British Army, yo. Maybe you're thinking of the Minutemen.

>sea fredra
see fredra run, run fredra run

>>13533399
>implying there's anything about 40k that makes any sense from any perspective whatsoever

>>13533399
Whatever gives one an excuse to write up stereotypically French Tau, haw-haw-haw.
>panel weenie
You too, Captcha?

>>13533405
I have heard/seen the word "Montenegro" exactly twice in my life before this. Once in a Nero Wolfe mystery, and the other time I knew a guy in California who owned a baseball bat which he had named "Tyrece Tyrone T. Montenegro."

>>13533296
>>13533247
And here we have the old argument of "No one does anything nice unless they get something out of it".
As it relates to OP's topic, the way I do evil is simple: I do what I feel I need to without the fear of the law of the land or my own conscience getting in the way.
I have friends that can't play evil characters, and that is fine. I can, but my evil is usually pretty damn slight.
Be low key, keep to a solid line of action, achieve goals with the minimal amount of risk or exposure.
I use my experience in the legal system and the lessons I learnt as the underpinning of my beliefs on evil.

>>13532957 Evil that imagines itself to be good is, inevitably, the weakest kind of evil.

Evil that imagines itself to be good is the ONLY type of evil.

No one other than the mentally ill actually believes themselves to be evil. The worst monsters in history all thought what they were doing was justified. The idea that evil people sit around torturing puppies while thinking "Oh, how delightfully EVIL of me!" is an absurdly childish one - even completely amoral psychopaths just think that their actions are just more honest than everyone elses'.

>>13533383
You American? You might have noticed the fact that Mr.Clinton forced the NATO to intervene in the Serbia-Bosnia war? No? Despite some thousands of soldiers and parts of your fleet being there?

Christ... people and history these days...

>>13533431
Montenegro is fucking awesome to be honest. The scenery is magnificent.

>>13533454
What, really?
No wait, I remember this, it was after Somolia. Threw some cruise missiles at them, crashed a helicopter or two, called it a day. That was Serbia? Damn, now I feel bad, I thought we were just blowing up some African folks again.

>>13533452
there are those further down the line who have accepted the fact they are evil and their actions are wrong but its impossible to stop whats been set into motion

>>13533454

Honestly bro, our soldiers and fleets are in so many places that unless there's an official war on at that specific moment there's no point in keeping track of it.

I do not give a single fuck about the fact that there are American soldiers in Columbia right now. Nor will I ever care about the extensive American military presence in, I dunno, pointless shitholes like Guadalajagadabrialand or Nowherenearamerica or Germany or any other shithole ass-end-of-the-earth territory they're holding.

>>13533475
Absolutely correct. Turned that place into a disaster area. Forced international armed forces to go there (there is still an American and NATO presence there) so... yes, that place.

I enjoy evil characters as an indulgence. On the one hand, it's interesting to play someone who has an enlightened self interest- e.g. you save the world so that you can rule it, or continue to rape and pillage within it. On the other hand, if there is someone who is both intelligent and good-aligned, there is a conflict of interest and therefore added value to the inerpersonal aspect of the game- provided the absence of the Lawful Stupid.

Furthermore, it's an indulgence. To let my hair down a little. To use otherwise unavailable tactics to gain an advantage. In fact, I'm playing an LN character right now who would be LG if he had not used bombings to get himself within striking distance of the last BBEG. Long story. Relevant point is, bombed a bazaar, murdered civilians so he could get in the BBEG's good graces, corner him, and beat him to death with a crowbar. Again, longer story than I'm willing to type out at the moment.

Do you know the tenets of Buddhism? Life is an illusion of suffering where we are trapped in, forced to reincarnate endlessly until we become Enlightened and enter Paradise.

Now add 40k into it.

While slaughter is regrettable, it made little difference to the majority of saps who would just reincarnate anyway. The real win is entering Paradise. With the ascension of the Anathema, things changed, he became a psychic vampire feeding on the souls of the enslaved.

>>13533475
Serbians actually shot down a stealth bomber. Don't fuck with the Serbs.

>>13533398

I'm not afraid of feeling bad, I'd just have to be insanely idiotic to willingly seek out the feeling. Hell, I've been known to intentionally act against my own interests in the hopes of making somebody else happy. It hasn't ever worked, and I think there's a lesson there, but you're stretching if you think it's fear.

>>13533398
It's because people have this weird balance of egoism and altruism. That two motivations can be so completely at odds, and yet both be so central to our behavior is something I find both incredibly frustrating and fascinating.

>>13533452
there's been enough guys in history who killed for shitz'n giggles

the greatest monsters were usually leaders. And indeed they have to believe into the cause to be able to lead an entire country

Smaller scale you'll see enough guys doing it for the kick. Think Africa

>>13533489
And then Americans wonder why they seem to be so hated by people around the world...

The Ethnocentrism and Indifference might be a factor.

>>13533004

Why don't you believe in the Chaos gods?
Each time I take a shit I feel the powers of Nurgle flowing freely trough my body.Thats enough evidence for me.

>>13533494
>kill random innocent civilians in order to viciously murder someone for his own gain
>Lawful Neutral

>>13533452
>even completely amoral psychopaths just think that their actions are just more honest than everyone elses'.

That isn't imagining oneself to be good. That is, in fact, the exact opposite of imagining oneself to be good, it is imagining everyone, including yourself, to be evil, but that only you personally have the strength to be honest about it.

>>13533452
>completely amoral psychopaths just think that their actions are just more honest than everyone elses'.

That's true actually, there have been a couple times where my gf has said "It would be a lot better for everyone if that person's life just ended right here"

Fortunately she's smart enough to know to not act on that. But she had such a cold-hearted, honest conviction that deaths would improve things that it was pretty damn scary

>>13533517
At no point did I mention personal gain, you realize. If anything, it's more:
>kill to prevent BBEG from destroying the entire world
>thegreatergood.jpg

He saw a threat and did not hesitate to act in the interests of the world as a whole- or rather, his homeland. Again, a long story.

>>13533546

You gain direct benefits from living in a world that hasn't been destroyed.
If that guy you betrayed and murdered had just been molesting sheep I doubt your character would have posed as a fellow sheep molestor as part of a master scheme to molest him instead.

playing a TN guy who decided his emotions were harming his goal (to become as immortal as (super)humanly possible) and has since started to slip towards NE


it feels good actually, to not have to worry about a lot of things


He's in a party of predominantly good guys so it should prove to be interesting. But since he's technically not killed innocents and he's currently still helping them fight the BBEG the ones who caught on don't talk about it

>>13533431
I didn't enjoy that book at all. There wasn't any genuine mystery, it was just 'the adventures of Nero Wolfe walking outside his house for once'. To think a major character in the universe was sacrificed for this particularly unriveting tale...

>>13533496
Hot damn. That's respectable. I respect that. Well, I hope Johnny doesn't hold it against us. Just a little war. Nothing personal. Put it in their anthem maybe, "We shot down a stealth bomber, don't fuck with us."

>>13533510
Hey, come on buddy. Don't be like that. He was just bustin' your balls. Real joker that guy. Real kidder, just putting on the tough guy face. You know. Real wise guy.

I've only played two evil characters. I played an Evil Paladin of Asmodeus in a 4e game, who was very much pic related from the OP. He actually had a lot of common ground with the Cleric of Erathis in the party. It was a sort of reclaiming the wasteland campaign. The central difference, of course, was that the bringing of order and stability was done to personally benefit my paladin or his master. The Erathian Cleric rolled with it out of a sense of greater good, but as soon as the campaign ended one of us was going to try and kill the other. Ultimately we decided to leave that unresolved. It just felt better doing it like that.

The other evil character I played was a Lawful Evil, monastic Psychic Warrior. He was very much a 'your own strength gets you by' character. Think Closed Fist in Jade Empire, or at least how Closed Fist should have been done. If I had to condense the appeal of this character, I'd come up with two things. One, I could rock every evil martial artist/cruel master trope that comes up in martial arts movies. Two, I could ALWAYS escalate the situation. As someone used to playing characters who take their moral restrictions seriously, it's difficult to convey how satisfying this was. My character wasn't stupidly violent, but he was completely aware of his own ability - perfectly willing to use immediate violence if the situation demanded it or it benefited him.

I wouldn't regularly play evil characters, but I did find the two I played to be fun. Right now I'm slaying demons as a bear-riding, bow-wielding semi-feral Halfling paladin in Pathfinder, so it's all good.

>>13533504 there's been enough guys in history who killed for shitz'n giggles

Yeah, but very very few of them actually think of themselves as being evil - there have been some mentally ill people who did think like that, but the vast majority find a way to excuse their actions.

>>13533528 That isn't imagining oneself to be good. That is, in fact, the exact opposite of imagining oneself to be good, it is imagining everyone, including yourself, to be evil

But they don't think of it as evil, they think they're just rationally self-interested. They don't "get" morality.

>>13533561
A valid point- no, he would have left the man alone, as sheep molesting is no harm to the Motherland. However, you base this assumption on insufficient data. Consider- if a man does something for himself, this is undoubtedly evil. If he does it for his country, what then?

A core concept of the character I wrote is that he will do most anything to ensure the safety of his countrymen. Terrorism was a calculated move, though I admit the crowbar thing wasn't. It could have been a more swift death were he to use a sword or an axe, but the rest of the party was dead and he found himself vindictive in that respect.

I'm pretty lawful neutral in my overall world view. We should work together and not dick each other over because that is the most pragmatic and effective way to achieve large goals. Together we attain far greater things than apart. You can't let the idea of momentary self-gain cloud the bigger picture.

However, if you try too hard to see the good in everyone, it can lead you into allowing a great deal of inefficiency. Sometimes individuals are faulty or broken and you lack the tools to repair them. Or in the case of the mentally ill, one might balk at the idea of a brain rewrite to fix the issue because of the implications behind such a procedure (not that we have such a procedure at current).

>>13533575
Serbia's anthem is already fucking badass. Look at this shit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W89NVcDKG2s

"God of Justice." I always thought it was funny, these guys had pretty strong ties to the Soviets, but they remained fanatically religious throughout the entire thing. I guess Orthodox doesn't rub the Commies the wrong way.

>>13533601
african revolutionaries that enslave children to get more booze

they don't see themselves as good in any way

>>13533627
>they don't see themselves as good in any way
And how many African Revolutionaries have you known on a personal level and developed a close enough bond with in order to make an informed evaluation of their self-image?

>>13533652
can you think of a way to justify enslaving children in order to get drunk and rape their mothers to yourself?

>>13533659
Needed the work force, was horny.

>>13533601
>But they don't think of it as evil, they think they're just rationally self-interested. They don't "get" morality.

See, I don't think you read the post you responded to first. At no point does it has them believing themselves to be evil been the point.

>>13532957

Read the actual post. The point is that the "strong" evil man does not believe himself to be good, he does not believe *in* good. He believes in getting what he wants, however he has to. This is exactly what you are saying, as though this somehow disproves the original statement. You are making no sense, because you want to be contrary.

>>13533625
Tito actually told the Soviets to go fuck themselves and played off both sides. Yugoslavia was rather enlightened for a communist country and would probably be even more so if not for some retards that introduced some way-too-communist shit.

How do you tell evil from good characters? You ever actually played a table top?

If there's even one woman, or someone roleplaying a woman, you can expect there to be backstabbing, team killing fucktards, and throwing everyone into danger for the lulz. I don't know who the fuck thinks it's cute to compulsively steal, pathaologically lie, and ruin the whole team dynamic. Fags mostly I guess...

But honestly, if you're going to act like that. At least fucking call yourselves evil. When a DM says he doesn't want evil alignment members, what he really means is he doesn't want to have to admit to himself that his group sucks, and is totally going to be dicks ANYWAY... There are plenty of ways to be evil alignment without taking it out on your comrades.

But most of you who play WoW... I mean D&D... are raised in the west. Where it's better to beat your wife and cheat then be rude to a complete stranger.

>>13533659
Justifying themselves? Maybe not. Considering themselves evil or even really consider their actions? Probably not.

Warlords and Criminals never see themselves as Evil either. They have ways to justify it t themselves, or got very good at ignoring it.

>>13533671
That doesn't make it good, that just makes it practical.

>>13533627
They don't see themselves as good.
They see themselves as doing what is needed, and making sure everyone does their part.
That does not make them "good" in their own minds. Necessity > self-illusions

>>13532942
You don't need to be cruel to be evil. Case in point:

My online group was playing a D&D campaign at ridiculously high power levels (38-40ish). Everyone made their character a ruler of a civilization with immense power and influence, from another plane.

I just made a Lich Sorcerer/Warlock with levels in Eldritch Theurge, Demonologist, and Alienist Prestige Class. Neutral Evil.

He lived in a little cliffside crypt a certain distance from the village. Every morning, he would ride into the village on his simple horse, and take up his position of mayor in the village. He'd get his hands dirty, helping the villagers with the day's harvest, looking after the children, tending to the livestock, etc. He'd build homes for the homeless, and solve disputes between the villagers. When the village was attacked by the neighboring orcs and the dread knights of the north, he'd blast them away with his magic.

The town loved him, and everyone would be willing to lay down their lives for him. The town also had no crime. This was because he'd kill and eat (because he likes the taste, and solely that) any criminals. The town always had a work force and a militia, because he would animate the dead and summon demons and xenomorphic animals to pull the wagons and carry the burdens.

This was because the village, the ground it stood on, and the people living within it, were his phylactery. As long as one trace of that little village remained, he would never truly die. He planned to sacrifice the souls of people from attacking armies that were captured by the villagers to propel himself into godhood, and expand the territory of his "phylactery" to all of creation, then actively rule that creation as Lolth actively engages with the drow people. But most of the time, he was a "nice" lich who really did appreciate his followers.

>>13533659

I can't think of a way to justify more or less anything in Africa to myself. Like the way they eat pygmies to gain their magic, or the riots over the belief that Jews put nanotechnology on combs in order to shrink people's penises. It will forever be a mystery to me, it comes from a completely different world and I will never understand it.

But that's just it. I will never understand it. So I lack the understanding necessary to, uh, understand how they think of themselves and see such things. I can't justify it, but that really says more about my inability to see things from these hypothetical revolutionaries' perspective than how said revolutionaries must see themselves.

>>13533687
>implying evil in an abstract concept
>implying being American has something to do with how a person rates on your personal morality scale
>implying implications
>implying
>implying
>implying
>implying

>>13533687
>If there's even one woman, or someone roleplaying a woman, you can expect there to be backstabbing, team killing fucktards, and throwing everyone into danger for the lulz
Pretty wrong there, guy, but you can stereotype if you want to.

>>13533684 See, I don't think you read the post you responded to first. At no point does it has them believing themselves to be evil been the point.

Directly from that post:

>>13533528 it is imagining everyone, including yourself, to be evil

>>13533742
That's not how stereotypes work tripfag.

And if it WAS a stereotype, that would mean it happened enough to become one. No. Just because you're fucking the woman in your group, doesn't make her a good player.

>>13533728
>riots over the belief that Jews put nanotechnology on combs in order to shrink people's penises

Is this something that actually happened?

>>13533799
its jews


you can bet yer arse

>>13533773
First, you moron. This entire hackneyed debate is rooted in your terrible reading comprehension.

You read the first line, the FIRST LINE of >>13532957,

And then formulated an argument against it in isolation, in >>13533452

Without reading the rest of the post. The rest of the post was the sum total of your entire position, except not written by an idiot.

>>13533799
Not literally that, but things of equal ridiculousness over sourcery and AIDS being cured by raping virgins and all that.

>>13533799
http://www.fark.com/cgi/comments.pl?IDLink=1938223&hl=You-can-stop-reading-after-phrase-Penis-Me
lting-Zionist-Robot-Combs

There are more sources I can cite if you need them.

>>13533844
Albino virgins are best.

>>13532851
>Just because
>pic related
>apologies

>>13532693
I agree with the rest of the thread; Define "evil." I've got one character who was roughly NG that I ended up having to put on a bus because everyone else was edging too much towards lolrandumb for him.

My current character is something out of a Lovecraft novel, currently with a plot he's slowly working towards. Because at least one member of my group frequents /tg/ I'll keep his plot to myself, but it's Fun. Not necessarily an Evil plot, but he's already tortured and executed a few hitmen, and is quite possibly starting down the path towards being a Supervillain. Fun times.

Not entirely on-topic, but advice to people who want to play Evil characters, especially in non-Evil parties: Don't tell your party members ANYTHING that you absolutely don't have to. Hell, I was using a magic trinket to pose as a sub-par human fighter, instead of an ohgodwhat sorcerer for the entire campaign he's been in, up until a demasking last session.

>>13532892
>>Then there's some tribes in Asia where they believe the only way a boy can become a man is by fucking him in the ass hundreds of times.

...wait, WHAT?

>>13533799

http://hubpages.com/hub/sexualhealth
>The so-called "penis-melting" has been blamed on Zionists trying to wipe out the Sudanese people by making their men unable to reproduce.
http://www.memri.org/report/en/0/0/0/0/0/0/976.htm#_edn13
>It Is a Zionist Plot
>In conclusion Abbas wrote: "That man, who, as it is claimed, is from West Africa, is an imperialist Zionist agent that was sent to prevent our people from procreating and multiplying…" 12

>>13533787
Lol, stereotypes don't work by painting an entire group with a broad notion that is fundamentally impossible to prove.
Right.

Evil is fun and exciting.

>>13533822 You read the first line of >>13532957 and then formulated an argument against it in isolation without reading the rest of the post (paraphrased for ease of quoting)

I think you're getting confused. Just because I respond to a post, it doesn't mean I automatically disagree 100% with EVERYTHING in it. In fact, if I only quote a single sentence and formulate a response to that, it probably means that that is the part I want to respond to; in this case, that most evil people believe their actions to be "good", or at least justifiable.

If I don't respond to a part of your post it doesn't mean I didn't read it, it means that I didn't find anything worth being singled out for either praise or rebuttal.

>>13533715
Well played, good sir.

>>13532693
>The idea of being evil, (especially chaotic "lol I kill u 4 t3h lulz" evil) never spoke to me as anything interesting.
Well there's the thing; there's a difference between being evil and being a shitty Saturday morning cartoon villain.

In all honesty, though, who's to really say what is or isn't "evil" in a made up setting? "Good" and "Evil" are entirely subjective. Do you really think the Emperor in Star Wars thought he was a bad guy or evil? No, he thought what he was doing was for the best of the galaxy. Sure "for the best of the galaxy" to him was ruling with an iron fist, but he didn't see himself as "evil."

I had a character in D&D once who everyone else in the party considered evil because of his "take no prisoners" approach to conflicts(after all a prisoner is just another mouth to feed, another body to drag around, and just a burden all-around), but he saw himself as a completely legit guy doing the right thing. Prisoners could potentially endanger the party, and he didn't want to see his friends getting killed. Not evil, but others thought he was.

>>13533964
It's called a statistical truth. If I have ten girls who play D&D, and nine of them are cunts at the gaming table. Then that means statistically 9 out of 10 girls are bad D&D players.

Math>Whiteknight.

>>13534082
What if the ratio is only 2 out of 10, and you were just unlucky with the girls who played?

>>13532775
>>13532817
By "mature" you mean the system has broken you to better serve others right?

Anger is a sign of discomfort. Discomfort brings change.

>>13534006
You didn't just pick one subject in a paragraph of subjects to argue against, you picked out one piece of a larger argument to contradict, when the rest of the argument qualified it in such a way as to be functionally identical to your statement!

You understand the problem I have with being put into a position where I am suddenly being argued against with my own argument, yes?

>>13534115
And change is good.

>>13534116 You understand the problem I have with being put into a position where I am suddenly being argued against with my own argument, yes?

Goddammit, I'm not arguing with you!

...Well, I am NOW, but I'm not arguing with your original point. I singled out a sentence from that post, but I don't disagree with the point that post as a whole was making - I was just using it as a jumping off point for my own point; namely that nobody really believes themselves to be evil IRL (no one sane, at least).

I thought that was clear, but apparently it wasn't.

I like playing sort of gray area characters. This one game of D&D 4e (do we still hate that?) I played a Hobgoblin Paladin that got to epic levels, and throughout the whole campaign he was militarizing and rallying small villages that keep getting attacked by bandits and barbarians. The thing is, he wouldn't just find the bad guys and kill them, he'd find their leaders and bring them back to the town square and skin them alive and get everybody into a frenzy with his insane Charisma. Eventually, he got so frustrated with injustices that he decided that the very god of justice was too lax, and when my party and I got into epic levels we stormed his celestial palace and all fucking died, and my character essentially became the god of justice run rampant and revenge and all that "Dark Side of Justice" nonsense. It was pretty cool.

I also just like playing tyrants and charming sociopaths. Y'know, like Griffith from Berserk, just doing anything he can to rise to power, and making everybody love him in the process. Having utter control over just about everything is really appealing and enjoying.

>>13534209

>enjoying

Oh GOD I'm retarded. enjoyable. I said enjoyable. fuck

Sword and Sorcery reporting in.

Why would you want to be the bad guy when you can be the badass instead?

Come over to our side, we have ale and whores.

I'm a paladin type, but I do enjoy the odd evil character. I tend to go for 'team player' evil characters, because it's a team game and I find them interesting.

I mean, is a fighter with a genocidal hatred for gnolls going to be a problem to an adventuring problem? They're evil, yes, the heartless murderer of entire monster race villages, but in their head they think they'e doing right by Pelor, and they're a solid friend to the party and mean no harm to them. That's a bit of a dilemma, that's a bit of interest. That also might never come up, not all campaigns involve gnoll enemies, but is such a strong part of their personality and their outlook they will never flag as anything but evil.

I like to play evil characters who are fundimentally decent, but have a flaw that if played out, is the end of their story. The seed of evil that has to be crushed in them or consume them. If it ever came to going to war with the gnolls, that crusader in the example would have to go against the party; either on their own or siding with their genocidal colleages because while they're otherwise decent, that's deep down what they are. A merciless slayer of gnolls. It takes a lot of RP to change that, to play out that conflict and to conclude it once and for all, and it's a type of RP you just don't get playing a paladin.

>>13534491

*adventuring party

Whoops

Simple question:
Why do you play a evil character

/tg/: WHAT IS A MAN???

Good and Evil are nothing more than perceptions. False perceptions made by weak minds in a futile attempt to rationalize a chaotic universe.
Your "Evil" is my "Good", in that one lives out their desires to the fullest during their lifetime, irrespective of the prevailing social or cultural norms at the time.
And, vice-a-versa, Your "Good" is my "Evil". The "Good" are nothing more than dairy cows bludgeoned into artificial conformity by false gods and equivocating politicians.

"And thus I clothe my naked villainy with old-odd ends stolen forth from holy writ and seem a saint when most I play the devil."
-Shakespeare, Richard III

I like evil characters (and I don't mean good characters with evil quirks) because they're interesting. Heres the thing play a character who is maliciously wicked but recognizes that if he is outwardly evil the party will turn against him. However adventuring gives him an opportunity to 1. be evil leave before people notice and 2. get rich while killing things. Playing an evil PC is simple, quietly start fights and make enemies so you have an excuse to kill, torture and murder behind everyone's back and blame the BBEG or whoever is convenient, and finally when the opportunity presents itself seize power crushing whoever might get in your way. A good villain is one that convinces everyone else that he's innocent.

The closest I've got to an evil character is probably on the nasty side of neutral. He believes that his right to survive trumps anything else, and has done horrible things in self-defence or pre-emptively.

Despite his qualms about this he keeps putting himself in these situations and keeps dealing with "potential" enemies. He tells himself that it is necessary, for his own survival, but at heart he wonders if he actually enjoys this life.

It'll go two ways: either other people will show enough compassion to turn him around, and to make him realise that life is more than self-perpetuation. He'll realise that what he leaves behind matters and he'll find a cause worth dying for.

Alternatively he'll thin out his enemies, and be used as a tool by others to help them deal with theirs. Eventually he won't see a difference between other people's problems and his own, and he'll be in it for the rush of killing for hire. Monsters, people, he won't see a difference, and there begins the descent to evil.

I've played quite a few evil characters in my time.
the half fire elemental who got the rape pillage
and burn order wrong.. burning while raping...
then having nothing really left to pillage.

the half silver draon with red dragon bloodline who wanted to take over the world and manipulated a half-fiend pretending to be a hero so he could take over the world into helping.

evil is just more free to do soem things then good.

oh Evil is not subejective, anyone who says such,
shoot them in the foot and tell them its okay
because its not evil from your perspective. =)

I tried to play an evil character, I really tried ONCE, because I wanted to know how'd it be like.
Then...t-then /tg/, my GM....my GM turned weeaboo and forced himself onto my character to like elves and not be a dick towards people and not inspire to be a warlord.
Pic related, it was mfw he did this.

i've tried playing evil.

it doesn't work all that well because i don't like raping and our gm has us killing regualr monsters which doesn't feel evil and out party leader is NE cleric who is an awesome spinster and we're lauded as heroes almost everywhere we go, or we do mass genocide and are forgotten from an area because that area doesn't exist

>>13534615
Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun.

>>13532693
Patrician Vetenari isn't exactly EVIL. He's lawful neutral. He may BELIEVE that all people are inherently evil, but he himself only strives to make shore his city works. This includes crime working just as well as law enforcement, thus, crime is legalized (and taxed), as long as they don't go over quota. He epitomizes balance and order, not evil.

>>13535117
>it doesn't work all that well because i don't like raping
>evil=rape

I'm... not even surprised.