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  • File : 1266992787.jpg-(9 KB, 228x207, just_as_planned.jpg)
    9 KB Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:26 No.8254643  
    -Never actually participated in the final battle of the Horus Heresy, instead found themselves "misdirected" to the Calth system, despite the widely known fact that Roboute was the greatest tactician amongst his Primarch brothers.
    -Only Chaos forces destroyed by Ultramarines at the Siege of Terra, when they finally arrived, were broken, fleeing, and defenseless.
    -Immediately, Roboute broke down the strength of all the loyal Legions into smaller forces, to be spread out throughout the galaxy.
    -Extremely reclusive, and does not willingly commit forces to goals that do not favor their agenda, irking much of the Imperium's hierarchy.
    -Only Space Marine force to carve out an actual sector of space (which is not officially governed by the Administratum), instead of a just single planet or fleet-based.
    -The Ultramar system's defenses, resources, and military might are only challenged by that of the Solar system itself.
    -Only suffered the greatest loss at the hands of Tyranids, and only were engaged there unwillingly.
    -The greatest loss from this battle was from the Ultramarine's 1st Company. The U's 1st was composed of the most powerful warriors, who also held on to the deepest old-time traditions. Many of these warriors were at odds with the rest of the chapter's "newer" ways of thinking. Marneus Calgar used the 1st Company as a wall into which the rest of the Chapter would push the Tyranid forces. It was highly speculated by Inquisitor Kryptman, who was present at the battle, that he knew full well he was sending the entire company to their deaths.
    -Today, 2/3 of all active Space Marines can trace back their gene seeds to Ultramarine heritage.

    Now, have I been playing too much Dark Heresy, or is this massive amount of looming evil stupidly obvious to anyone else?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:28 No.8254668
         File1266992912.jpg-(150 KB, 604x599, 604px-Custodianjetbike.jpg)
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    Don't worry, the two Custodians in this picture are more powerful than the entire Ultramarine chapter
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:28 No.8254673
    You can spin anything to be ridiculously evil no matter how good it was meant to be.

    But the reclusive part is incorrect.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:29 No.8254683
    /tg/ determined a while back that Ultramarines fell to Chaos back during the Heresy, but were more of a Plan B; if the rebellion didn't go as planned, they were to destroy the Imperium from the inside. Which they are doing pretty damn well.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:31 No.8254715
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    >>8254643
    I'm with Calgar.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:31 No.8254729
    >>8254683
    This exactly.

    They're like the Alpha Legion of the Loyalists.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:33 No.8254745
    Little of column A.

    Little of column B.

    I think the Ultramarines are nucking futs, but, ya know.

    They may not be EVIL per se.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:33 No.8254755
    You all realize that this would make the Ultramarines WAY too cool and interesting, right?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:34 No.8254762
    >>8254673
    Ultrafag detected
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:34 No.8254771
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    The Inquisition has their eyes on you.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:35 No.8254776
    >>8254643
    Don't forget "Attacked the Alpha Legion on the way back from the heresy, and was forced to disregard his own codex. Afterwards, called Dorn a heretic for disagreeing with the Codex Astartes."
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:35 No.8254777
    >>8254755
    Suddenly the fanboyism makes sense. . . The fanbois just don't say naything because they don't want to give the gig up.
    >> Vladimir Pugh 02/24/10(Wed)01:35 No.8254783
    Sure, Calgar has two Power Fists. Big fucking deal. Guess who has two THUNDER HAMMERS and is the planetary-governor of MOTHER FUCKING TERRA?!
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:35 No.8254790
    >>8254755
    Yes, well, /tg/ is smarter and infinitely more creative than GW. This should not be a surprise to anyone.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:35 No.8254794
         File1266993354.jpg-(75 KB, 600x750, 125747242882.jpg)
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    >>8254771
    wait, wrong picture

    Well I guess the Black Templars could be aiding us
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:38 No.8254822
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    Not just as planned = (
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:38 No.8254835
    At this point, I think if the Ultramarines REALLY are evil, if they ever do approach the Emperor on Holy Terra, the Inquisition's gotta know about it. I mean, a battle-fleet that could destroy Terra and the Emperor would be MASSIVE.

    The Inquisition, and the Imperial Navy, would order them to stand down, Ultramarines get the first salvo, Imperial Navy either wins, or gets tied up in naval combat with the Ultramarine's navy.

    Ultramarines send a detachment to kill the Emperor, they never make it in there, the Custodians would stop them, the Inquisition would be ready, and every Psyker alive that was part of the Inquisition or part of the Custodians would just demolish them. Yes, it would be demoralizing to the Imperium, but that would also solidify the fact that no traitorous force could ever defeat the Imperium of Man, not even the Ultramarines.

    At least, that's how I think it would go.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:39 No.8254836
    And then Calgar and Abbadon team up and fight the Imperium Good Cop/Bad Cop style.

    They'd be like the 40k version of Starsky and Hutch.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:40 No.8254853
    >>8254835
    You misunderstand. Their purpose isn't to destroy it outright, it's to aid in corrupting it subtly while still maintaining the appearance of being loyalists.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:40 No.8254860
    >>8254836

    Abbadon is too busy trying to kill Creed, we all know it.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:40 No.8254867
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    ultramarines are nothing compared to the might and courage of the men of the imperial guard
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:40 No.8254869
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    >>8254835
    I am really, really looking forward to someone writfagging this.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:42 No.8254894
    >>8254869

    I should TOTALLY do it...

    but then I'd need a pretentious Trip Code.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:43 No.8254915
         File1266993833.jpg-(57 KB, 400x380, 1231912733230.jpg)
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    >>8254894
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:44 No.8254924
    >>8254835
    Dude, no single chapter of marines has the military power to throw down against Solar's defenses, period.
    The Codex Asatrtes breakdown assures this, just like the breakdown of the Imperial Army to the Imperial Guard assurd that no single force would have the needed equipment to wage considerable war against the Imperium. The Siege of Vraks was an exception, not the rule.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:44 No.8254925
    >>8254853
    Yeah exactly. The codex astartes was the single greatest blow to the Imperium in its history. Including the Heresy.

    The codex includes guidelines written by Guilliman about the hypnotherapy and indoctrination training every space marine recieves.

    I would be shocked if Calgar and every other Ultramarines descended chapter master didn't know some post-hypnotic trigger word that would make any Space Marine created in the last fifty centuries immediately fall into a coma.

    Fuck those traitors.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:44 No.8254930
         File1266993890.jpg-(146 KB, 700x525, 419145 - James_Cameron's_Avata(...).jpg)
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    SMURFS!!!!!!
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:45 No.8254935
    dunno, calagar might be evil, or he might just be butt hurt over the fact that he is a quad now.

    I mean the dude lost all four limbs, an eye, and a lot of other shit, he got to be pissed off at that.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:45 No.8254942
    >>8254894

    As an alternative:

    Don't do it. Mainly because you fail at punctuation.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:46 No.8254947
    >>8254924
    Ultramarines and their descendants comprise more than half of all Space Marines.
    >> Sil !!Z9B6Ms74H9Q 02/24/10(Wed)01:47 No.8254960
    >>8254925

    so... under this theory are the Grey Knights the biggest troll in the history of history?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:49 No.8255000
    >>8254947
    this is true I guess, by breaking up the armies, he effectively created a grand smokescreen to create new "chapters" that would allow him to increase his forces constantly. and I wouldn't be surprised if the main reason he killed off all those space marines was so he could harvest more gene seed to make even more space marines.

    eventually he will have a fuck huge army, with super huge ships funded by the awesome resources of his sector.

    and they are blue... TZEETCH!!!

    btw if you remember, magnus the red was a reluctant joiner of tzeetch, while all the other chaos gods had gotten hard core supporters, which means that perhaps tzeetch already had A primarch and just got magnus as a bonus prize.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:50 No.8255013
    >>8254960
    grey knights are from the inquisition, and I think they MIGHT count as the biggest trolls in the 40k universe.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:53 No.8255051
    Roboute was the real choice of the chaos gods, not Horus. Horus was only the first act.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:54 No.8255072
    >>8255051
    at the very least I think that he might have been the choice of tzeetch.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:56 No.8255108
    >>8255072

    it's ALWAYS been tzeentch's choice. He probably made the other three think they had the free will choice in the matter.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)01:57 No.8255135
    >>8255108

    Totally, and all the while, he's relaxing, plotting.

    But, what no one knows, is that his TRUE identity is CALGAR!
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:02 No.8255199
    Maybe Calgar just has his eye on the Golden throne? not evil, ambitious.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:02 No.8255211
    read this, GW, and apply
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:03 No.8255222
    >>8254683
    >>8254729

    the Alpha Legion are actually loyalists, and tasked by the Emperor himself to take up the mantle of the hanged man, the scape goat, to be hated and scorned as traitors, for one day they will save the Imperium.

    That is why their battlecry is "FOR THE EMPEROR!!"
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:04 No.8255232
    >>8255199

    Probably was Roboute's original idea. I bet he could heal up if they took him out of stasis. I bet Calgar says nay nay to that.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:05 No.8255244
    >>8254783Sure, Calgar has two Power Fists.

    do you know where he got his power fists from?

    A CHAOS MARINE
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:05 No.8255247
    Guilliman and Calgar actually admitted their treachery in a thread here a few weeks back.

    Seriously. It's on sup/tg/ somewhere, look it up.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:06 No.8255253
    >>8255199
    The same could be said of Horus, especially if he had won.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:10 No.8255295
    >>8255253
    Horus is a nob who was just impatient.

    as an aside, GW seriously needs to move the fucking timeline along. its static. needs to be a living universe.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:11 No.8255307
    >>8255253
    Except Horus fagged it up and went Chaos.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:13 No.8255330
    >>8255295

    eldrad died, a craftworld popped out of the warp, cadia lost a bunch of planets and now chaos is in control of the spaceways around there

    ... weirdly enough, only Eldar have faced any kind of big change in the storyline
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:14 No.8255333
    >>8255222
    What? No they are absolutely not "Loyalists"

    They were tasked with destroying chaos by committing genocide on humanity and all the other races that influence the warp.

    There is nothing "Loyalist" about that. They are not "loyal" to humanity in the slightest.
    >> Sil !!Z9B6Ms74H9Q 02/24/10(Wed)02:14 No.8255340
    >>8255330

    all this and no Necron update in sight...
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:16 No.8255362
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    >>8255333
    WHAT WE DO, WE DO IN HIS NAME, BY HIS ORDER. THERE IS NO GREATER LOYALTY.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:17 No.8255382
    >>8255333

    We are the hero the Imperium deserves.

    batmanskydiving.jpg
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:18 No.8255395
    >>8255333
    Well there is a whole galaxy to fix, you know.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:19 No.8255397
    >>8255330
    ok. but seriously, thats pretty pathetic. i mean its a GALAXY AT WAR, maybe they should lern2war better
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:19 No.8255400
    >>8255333
    In fact, the chaos legions are closer to being "Loyalist" than the Alpha Legion. They want to enslave humanity in the name of their gods and stuff, not obliterate every homo sapiens sapiens in the galaxy.

    Depending on what you think the chaos gods are (IE if you think they're gods of evil instead of just gods of emotion and creativity) the Alpha Legion could be considered "good guys" from a grandiose philosophical perspective, but they are certainly NOT "Loyalists" from a "let humanity survive" perspective.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:20 No.8255416
    >>8255400
    But they are Loyalists from a "we follow the orders we wuz given" perspective.
    >> Unbound !6.WRcMbDo. 02/24/10(Wed)02:20 No.8255421
    Alpharius, was the best tactican amongst the Primarchs.

    Fuck yeah Alpha Legion!
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:21 No.8255431
    >>8255330... weirdly enough, only Eldar have faced any kind of big change in the storyline


    Biel Tann has a fortress in the Eye of Terror on a planet contested by the 4 chaos gods. The most warlike Eldar being on a demon planet must be gud for them.

    Ulthwe recovered a pre-fall super dooper Black Sword from another crone world. Eldrad died (OR DID HE BUM BUM BUUUMMM) yet his command stones still have a faint warmth to them. His students are currently searching for a way to bring him back.

    Maugan Ra, despite being a vessel of eternal war, still had enough heart to rescue his old self's home from the Warp. Altansar reemerges.

    Ahirman got the shit kicked out of the webway. Dark Eldar coordinated with craftworlders, mediated by harlequins, in fighting Chaos there.

    Eldar pirates had a big party on non-Cadian systems.

    that summer campaign was an overwhelming Eldar victory.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:23 No.8255468
    >>kill all humans

    wait... Alpha Legion are the Bender marines?
    >> Ya Bum Musky !FordDucaKo 02/24/10(Wed)02:25 No.8255489
    >>8255468

    basically, since killing all of mankind pretty much solves all the problems
    >> KingWrex 02/24/10(Wed)02:25 No.8255491
    >>8254643

    ULTRAMARINES move?
    are we writing the plot spoiler right now

    if so i will watch it more then 4 times
    >> Melo The Yellow 02/24/10(Wed)02:25 No.8255494
    >>8255431
    Wait a minute... Isn't GW planning something big when the Dark Eldar get their codex? I heard someone say they were.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:25 No.8255496
    >>8255333
    >>8255362
    >>8255416
    >>8255400

    im pretty sure Loyalist refers to being loyal to the Imperium, not humanity
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:25 No.8255499
    >>8255468
    This is now canon.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:26 No.8255501
    >>8255489

    do they not fight xenos then?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:26 No.8255504
    Actually there was a fluff piece published in white dwarf (dubiously canon i know) and some fleeting references in their index astartes to their potential connections to the necrons.

    the only ones i can remember (after having my mother throw out all my old white dwarves i was storing in her house)

    1. Ultramarines have had contact with a being like the "Dragon" ctan
    2. Ultramarines have a chapter banner that apparently inspires its men "a little too much" this banner is made out of a living metal, eerily similar to the metal wrap that allow the ctan into this dimension.


    not much i know, but the ENTIRE 2 page fluff piece revolved around odd little tod bits like that. including potential reasons for guilliman to stay in cryo.

    i think GW was not hiding the fact that they wanted the ultramarines to not be fully on the level. all part of the "Ultramarines are cool, no really" thing that gw hav been into for about the last 8 years.


    fucking smurfs.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:27 No.8255515
    >>8255496
    How much more loyal can you get than following the Emprah's instructions to the letter? They are ensuring, one life at a time, that no more creatures may fall prey to the warp. As He willed it. Or a passable approximation thereof.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:27 No.8255521
    one day, it will happen

    the ultramarines will flip all of their icons over

    and then they will go

    "WE ARE THE OMEGA MARINES!!"

    and the Imperium is fucked
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:30 No.8255556
    >>8254643

    Don't forget the battle the Ultramarines had with the Alpha Legion. We only know what the Ultramarines claim what happened.
    We do know that Alpharius and Gulliman argued bitterly on tactics, however.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:31 No.8255565
    so what's the Alpha Legion's background

    and... are they the Ultramarine nemesis because the Ultramarines logo is an upside down Omega?

    (Is there some hidden meaning in an Omega flipped upside down?)
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:32 No.8255581
    >>8255431
    Elrad dying was jsut the cream on the eldar cake.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:32 No.8255584
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    >>8255521
    And then the Emperor will wake up as a god and give everyone this face.
    >> Ya Bum Musky !FordDucaKo 02/24/10(Wed)02:34 No.8255604
    >>8255565

    http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Alpha_Legion

    :3
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:37 No.8255628
    >>8255565

    "a scant two years before the Horus Heresy began, Alpharius Omegon was contacted by a Xenos organisation known as the Cabal, which presented the primarch with visions of the Heresy to come and other predictions of the future as well as knowledge about the nature of Chaos. They were shown that the only outcomes of the Heresy were that, if the Emperor won, humanity's existence would be ensured for ten or twenty thousand years of decay before they and the galaxy were consumed by Chaos and that, if Horus won, humanity would perish inside two generations, taking the Chaos powers into oblivion with them, thus saving the rest of the galaxy. The Alpha Legion was asked to take on their greatest challenge; to use all their skills of subterfuge, misinformation and sabotage to destroy Chaos from within. Secretly still loyal, they were challenged to defect to the side of Horus and ensure the final destruction of Chaos. Alpharius Omegon appeared to accede to this request, but like nearly all actions of the Alpha Legion, their true motivations are eminently unknowable."
    >> Matt Ward !YweIJekn1w 02/24/10(Wed)02:40 No.8255660
    YOU GUYS FORGOT THAT ULTRAMARINES CAN CALL ON THE FORCES OF ALL THE OTHER CHAPTERS EXCEPT THE SPACE WOLVES AND THE BLOOD ANGELS, BECAUSE THOSE CHAPTERS SEE GUILIMAN AS THEIR SPIRITUAL LEIGE
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:42 No.8255677
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    >>8255581Elrad dying was jsut the cream on the eldar cake.

    his era was over, he entrusted the future to the young
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:44 No.8255694
    >>8255677

    eldrad isn't nearly that manly. Nor could he ever dream of a mustache like that
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:45 No.8255711
    >>8255677
    No, you misinterpreted that. Elrad dying was a *good thing* for eldar. Becuase as we all know, he was a dick.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:46 No.8255717
    >>8255660
    >the Ultramarines 2nd company - the finest fighting unit in this or any other Chapter.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:47 No.8255731
    >>8255515
    thats what im sayin
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:49 No.8255747
    >>8255660

    the dark angels will help them?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:50 No.8255761
    >>8255660

    Black Templar were here.

    Ultramarines are dirty heretics who employ witches.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)02:59 No.8255863
    >>8255761

    Not so much employ as enjoy ..

    .. well. Never mind.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)03:58 No.8256425
    >>8255628
    What the shit O_o

    "The most notorious example of this took place on the world of Tesstra Prime, where the Alpha Legion, instead of taking the opportunity to capture the planetary capital and force the world's surrender, allowed the enemy to dig in and defend it so that they could then expertly take the defending forces apart in a number of different ways. After a week of suffering seemingly random mishaps as well as brutal ambushes, the defenders were forced to capitulate, having taken 90% casualties. When asked why the Legion had not taken the simpler strategy, Alpharius is reported to have replied that they avoided it as "it would have been too easy." This campaign brought him censure from almost all of his brother Primarchs; only Horus, always impressed by Alpharius and his work, praised the Alpha Legion's skill.1"
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:08 No.8256520
    >>8255694
    Actually he is if you look at his actions:

    From >>8256323
    >They already explained that though. Abaddon was being a bad little everchosen and wouldn't get off of Eldrad's lawn, so old man Eldrad coot came out, bent him over his knee, and thrashed his bottom soundly with the staff of Ulthamar.

    >Abaddon, tears in his eyes, cried out "chaosss, save meee!" and so the chaos gods whisked him away in a puff of magic.

    >Then Eldrad went lookin' for his Gran Torino, which the chaos boys had stolen, and he found it. Slaanesh was waiting inside for him though. Eldrad knew, but got in anyway, 'cause it was his car. He then looked Slaanesh square in the eye, punched 'im right in the ****, and exploded into a million soulstones.

    >And that's how the Eldar won the Eye of Terror.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:15 No.8256587
    If you mention any of the stuff about the Ultrines being secret traitors to any of the old GW bigwheels like Jervis Johnson they just trollface. It's all a conspiracy.

    Trufax.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:30 No.8256718
    >The codex includes guidelines written by Guilliman about the hypnotherapy and indoctrination training every space marine recieves.

    So when the codex astartes mehreens hear Guilliman voice when he returns they all suddenly go against the imperium.

    Two thirds of all the chapters plus much of the Imperial guard that would side with them and possibly the Adeptus mars if they are offered a better place in the New Imperium.

    Then Black templars,Dark angeks,Space wolves and Blood angels save the day and become the new space marines paragons
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:32 No.8256739
    If the Ultramarines tried to mobilise their successor chapters they would probably find themselves bushwhacked en route to Terra by thousands of Black Templars. Space Wolves, Blood Angels and Imperial Fists would take care of the Ultras and it would be fucking EPIC.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:33 No.8256750
    >>8256718

    More interesting would be to see Calgar having the Ultima Segmentum perma-secede during a Black Crusade or an equivalent threat so no forces can be committed againt the Ultramarines.
    >> Disciple of Tzeentch 02/24/10(Wed)04:34 No.8256755
    >>8256750

    Just as planned.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:34 No.8256762
    >>8256750
    Uh, what? Black Crusades are small time things that only affect a single world.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:35 No.8256767
    >>8254643
    And I now suddenly find myself with a campaign idea for when Deathwatch comes out...
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:35 No.8256773
    Alpha Legion is the Imperium plan B for destroying Chaos.

    But Ultra Smurf is Chaos plan B for destroying the Imperium?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:37 No.8256784
    So much heresy in this thread
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:37 No.8256791
    >>8256739

    Why would space wolves or blood angels care
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:38 No.8256794
    >>8256762

    Um, no. Remember Gothic War?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:38 No.8256802
    The Ultramarines are actually the Alpha Legion
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:40 No.8256824
    >The Ultramarines are actually the Alpha Legion
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:41 No.8256827
    >>8256791

    Because the Space Wolves like to fight and the Blood Angels have especially raging hardons for the Emprah because of Sanguinius' death at the hands of Horus.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:41 No.8256832
    There needs to be some sort of Imperium wide disaster, Calgar can claim Lord Commander status and then go from there. hell, it worked for Denethor.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:44 No.8256881
    Imperial fist are pretty much the same shit as the Ultramarines. They would ally with them.Same with the Salamanders,Raven guard,White Scars and pretty much everything excepto for Blood angels,Space wolves and Black templars
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:46 No.8256903
    >>8256881
    The Fists HATE the Ultrines because Robot Gillman called Rogal Dorn a heretic.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:47 No.8256914
    >>8256903

    When was that? sauce
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:49 No.8256924
    >>8256832
    The Denethor that went mad and immolated himself alive, that Denethor?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:50 No.8256940
    >>8256914
    Right around when Dorn called Robute's book stupid, and called the Ultramary's a pack of cowards.

    And Iron Hands would team with the Adeptus Mechanicus.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:52 No.8256954
    >>8256940

    I see both Salamanders and Iron hands taking seceding by themselves with the Adeptus mars if the smurfs rebel
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:53 No.8256968
    >>8256940
    And then he ran after the Iron warriors.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:54 No.8256972
    When Guilliman introduced the Codex Astartes he had Dorn summoned back to Terra to hear his proclamation. Bear in mind Dorn was the man who heard the Emperor's last words, which he kept secret but let's face it, were probably something to do with how the Emperor wanted the Imperium ran. I doubt he was happy about the blue man group taking over.

    Dorn was pretty unimpressed with Guilliman's idea to split up the legions and a second civil war almost happened because of it. He only agreed to it to be the better man and do what was best for the Imperium. Then he created the Black Templars under the command of his personal champion and sent them off on permacrusade to get huge far away from Terran involvement.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:54 No.8256973
    >>8256968
    Which the Ultramarines rescued him from.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:54 No.8256983
    >>8256954
    Haven't the Martian buggers recently discovered the book detailing the Emprah being an justasplanning lying asshat?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:55 No.8256988
    >>8256924
    yep, but Calgar won't have to worry bout the Emprah coming back. or hobbits.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:56 No.8256999
    >>8256972
    But to be honest the Ultramarines would have been better off as a single legion if they wanted to attack Terra considering there legion took a hell less casualties and was a big legion
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:58 No.8257014
    >>8256999
    Literally no reason to attack Terra, especially with ground troops. The Emperor is in a braindead coma and performing a useful function.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:58 No.8257019
    >>8256999
    Successor chapters are just a sly way of remaining a legion.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:58 No.8257025
    >>8257014
    That isn't exactly the point.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:59 No.8257030
    >>8257019
    Then why do it at all when the other chapters are affected the same?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)04:59 No.8257031
    Any Ultrine takeover of Terra would take place in the boardroom, not the battlefield. They would just negotiate their way to being in charge, if you can call anyone in charge of the Imperium in the first place.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:00 No.8257036
    >>8257019
    That's the coward's way. The Wolfwolves just remained HUEG and nobody dared to complain.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:00 No.8257037
    >>8256999

    if 2/3 of the space marines are genetically the same than ultramarines then now Calgars technically has more than a legion (10k mehreens,thats only 10 chapters) to invade terra and take half of the Imperium with him.

    What side would take the inquisition and the different branches of it?.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:00 No.8257043
    The admech bosses know the empra was just awesome.

    As do the IF, the SW, Salamanders, and Iron Hands
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:01 No.8257044
    >>8257030
    They did it safe in the knowledge that their geneseed was the most stable and that the majority of successor chapters would be sired from that. It also neatly sidelined less disciplined chapters like the Blood Angels and Space Wolves.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:01 No.8257045
    >>8257037
    The Inquisition would troll itself into a civil war.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:01 No.8257048
    >>8257025
    Then what is, smartass? They sure can't occupy Terra, they can't destroy it with ground troops, etc.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:01 No.8257051
    >>8257019
    But you lose the same level of power a legion has with chapter organization and the fact there is now alot more rivalry between chapters.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:01 No.8257055
    >>8257031

    wrong. there is a precedent for the leader of the Ultramarines to assume the mantle of Lord Commander and take control of the Imperium.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:02 No.8257064
    >>8257037
    A legion can be ALOT bigger then 10k
    Ultramarine legion was HUGE.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:04 No.8257079
    >>8257048
    I meant attack Terra as reason to attack the Imperium at all.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:30 No.8257287
    This thread has blown my mind. Fucking saved. I'm going to hammer these facts into every fanboy's skull I meet.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:32 No.8257301
    More stuff:
    If the Primarch is "dead", he's not a threat to the Administratum. His stasis-chamber is the object of millions of pilgrims, siphoning worship away from the true Emperor. When he heals and walks again... what then?

    The Gauntlets of Ultramar are a repainted and annointed Chaos artifact, and no-one in the imperium knows how the fuck they work.

    The Ultramarines control the PDFs of 15 worlds. Planets that do not tithe men to the Imperial Guard.. They have their own treaties with the Adeptus Mechanicus, and a Forge World in their own space.
    They have one of the largest independent transport fleets in the Imperium.
    4 CHAPTERS of Marines, including the Praetors of Calth, live just at the edge of their territory; all are fleet-based chapters immediately descended from the UMs.

    5,000 Marines and Christ only knows how many IG, with a functioning transport fleet and a Primarch potentially leading them?

    Thank the Emperor that the Templars (whom, history has shown, have no problem whatsoever with slaughtering rogue chapters - they're up to 11 according to the fluff..) and the rest of the Sons of Dorn are guarding Terra, let alone three of the Great Priories of the Sisters. And That which is on Titan...
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:53 No.8257466
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    >>8254835
    No, the Ultramarines win somehow, because even the Emperor recognises Roboute Gulliman as his spiritual liege.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:58 No.8257514
    This shit could start a fucking fistfight at a GW.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:58 No.8257516
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    bump please
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:58 No.8257519
    >>8257301
    Don't forget the Imperial Navy, such an alliance would be extremly hard pressed to even reach Sol, let alone Terra itself. All the marines in the world won't help you when their transport is destroyed from hundreds of thousands of kilometres away.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)05:59 No.8257523
    The last time the Alpha Legion was known to be active on any large scale was immediately after the Heresy, when instead of retreating to the Eye of Terror like the other traitorous Legions, they moved on into the Galactic East, apparently seeking to fulfil mysterious objectives of their own devising. Whether or not being brought to battle with the Ultramarines was one of these objectives is unknown, but it occurred all the same.

    On the world of Eskrador, the Alpha Legion was assaulted by Ultramarine forces. Alpharius was reportedly happy with such a development, as it allowed him to demonstrate the superiority of his flexible, multitudinous and unexpected military strategies on the notoriously precise, methodical and perhaps even moribund Ultramarines. However, the Alpha Legion primarch was apparently taken by surprise when Gulliman departed from his own strictures and led a surprise assault by his elite units on the Alpha Legion headquarters. In the resultant personal combat between Alpharius and Guilliman, it is believed that Alpharius was killed. The Alpha Legion responded, not by breaking and fleeing as Guilliman expected, but by turning on the Ultramarine detachment and harrying them so mercilessly that by the time they had returned to the main body of the Ultramarine force their casualties were almost total. The Ultramarines were driven from the planet in the subsequent battle.

    Since then, the Alpha Legion has rarely been seen, and in fact has been declared wiped out by the High Lords of Terra no less than three times, in M31, M32 and M39. These claims have always been disproved by a subsequent sighting of the mysterious Legionaries, who continue to operate against the Imperium for reasons of their own.1
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:02 No.8257539
    So OP implies Ultramarines a jews ?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:03 No.8257545
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    >>8257301
    Even if they managed to fight through all of that, there is still the last line of defense within the walls of the Imperial Palace itself.

    How will the resolve of the Ultramarines and their successors fare when they are faced by the might of the Eternally Vigilant?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:03 No.8257547
    >>8257539
    As a Jew we are actually a cover for the Word bearers.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:04 No.8257551
    >>8257523
    I like how neither of them were really ready for the other.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:05 No.8257559
    All of the original Custodes are long dead of old age. The technology to create them is lost. Today's Custodes are normal men who spend their whole day sitting in hugely outsized suits of armour, smoking cigarettes and reading magazines.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:07 No.8257567
    Im just putting this out there, but GOD DAMMIT GW, IF YOU MOVED YOUR FLUFF ALONG HALF AS FAST AS I WOULD LIKE THEN I WOULD STOP PLAYING OTHER GAMES! IF YOU FUCKING WENT WITH SOME OF THESE BITCHING RUMOURS, LIKE 40K DOGS OF WAR, THE EMPORERS REBIRTH, AND NOW, THESE ULTRAFAGS ATTACKING EARTH IT WOULD BE SO BADASS I WOULD BUY 2 OF EVERY NOVEL INVOLVED IN IT, AND BUILD A 1500 POINT ULTRAMARINES ARMY TO LEND OUT TO PEOPLE SO THEY CAN TRY PLANETSTRIKING MY GUARDSMEN WITH IT. A SPACE MARINE SCHISM OF THIS MAGNITUDE WOULD MAKE ME SO FUCKING HAPPY. /TG/ IS THERE ANYWAY WE CAN HELP THIS HAPPEN OFFICIALLY? LETTERS, EMAILS, THE RUMOURED PHONE NUMBER TO THE GW TOP TIER STAFF?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:08 No.8257571
    >>8257559
    source?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:09 No.8257579
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    >>8257567
    What? You need GW's okay to run a campaign where that happens?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:09 No.8257583
    >>8257545
    THE IMPERIAL PALACE WALLS WILL RECOGNISE ROBUTE GUILLIMAN AS THEIR SPIRITUAL LIEGE OF COURSE
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:09 No.8257584
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    >>8257559
    Sorry, but I don't buy that. Something like the Custodes isn't going to adhere to mortal failings like old age. On the contrary, I bet the Custodes are the same as those from during the Great Crusade, with some of the inner circle ones having walked alongside the Emperor since before the Unification Wars.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:10 No.8257591
    >>8257579
    No, but i need GW to actually make the fiction, and let me play in that universe officially. I have my own fanfictiony alternate warhammer 40k universe, its cool, but not as cool as something like this occuring with actual gw backing.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:12 No.8257597
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    >>8257591
    So that's a yes.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:12 No.8257601
    >>8257584
    They are.
    Really only the Daemon primarchs and friends have a real chance (no including aliens) of getting through.
    But they don't give a fuck.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:12 No.8257604
    >>8257597
    No, its: No but i want it anyway, on a bigger scale than i can achieve myself
    >> Idaeus !!Qu15q8GN3vp 02/24/10(Wed)06:13 No.8257606
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    >>8257301

    Actually the Gauntlets of Ultramar are artefacts from the dark age of technology that were stolen by the World Eaters.

    They were never corrupted by chaos, especially since they never entered the Eye of Terror.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:13 No.8257609
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    >>8257604
    That's a yes.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:17 No.8257635
    >>8257609
    oh man your totally right, why dont i just write twelve novels myself, as can be seen from my posts im obviously a master of such devices as; grammar and spelling and originality and not getting trolled so easily GODFUCKINGGDAMMIT
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:17 No.8257642
    >>8257635
    You don't need to write a novel for history.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:17 No.8257644
    >>8257559
    >smoking cigarettes and reading magazines and wishing to be Ultramarines.
    FTFY
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:19 No.8257658
    >>8257642
    i do if i have no intention of doing anyting but read this shit. im mostly interested in reading anything that actually advances such a stale fucking setting. so much wasted promise.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:22 No.8257674
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    >>8257635
    Your posts say no no, but your heart and puckering anus say yes yes.

    Come. Let us dance the dance of official fluff.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:24 No.8257690
    >>8257674
    what is it about avatarfags being the biggest faghats?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:25 No.8257694
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    >>8257658
    Read some stories on a smaller scale then. Not everything has to be about galaxy-reaching changes in major fluff to be a nice progressive story. Fuck.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:26 No.8257701
    >>8257658
    Not really.
    History can be condensed quite easily and you can put detail into the things you like.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:27 No.8257709
    >>8257694
    i love the gaunts ghosts stuff, but really, i hate the "status quo" of the universe. i dont see why nothing will ever change. its the only thing i see wrong with GW, i can even stand their prices.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:28 No.8257719
    >>8257709
    Please use capitals.
    Just for my sanity.
    Please. =C
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:29 No.8257728
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    >>8257690
    Just playing man, just playing.

    Honestly the thing is 40K progressing would make the whole tabletop game thing a little harder to maintain. To progress the story, shift allegiances and change the status quo in a rapid manner would invariably have an affect on the codices and models produced. If they didn't do that I'm sure people would still not be happy.

    What it would mean is that the annoyance with the space marine codex releases would be amplified tenfold.

    The idea of the tabletop game is that there are a billion stories to tell within the current, slow moving plotline (moving at a pace which allows them to more reasonably control fluff and release new books and models at a more manageable for business pace).
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:31 No.8257737
    >>8257728
    Also pardon my complete buttfucking of 'affect-effect' I'm tired.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:32 No.8257744
    >>8257719
    SURE
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:32 No.8257749
    >>8257744
    Actually I can stand that slightly better.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:38 No.8257781
    >>8257567
    Aaaaaaand one of the rare instances of an interesting 40K thread descends into a bitchfight about advancing the setting.

    Great.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:41 No.8257808
    >>8257728
    Truth.

    But at the same time, the universe could change rapidly, without far reaching consequences.

    For instance, did anyones codec get invalidated when the tau expanded into an empire? no they used it to make a new one (and perhaps, destroy kroot mercenaries)

    Hell the Eye Of Terror Campaign did shit all, despite the looming treat of "Far Reaching Consequences" (the only problem being, the overwhelming brokenness of the Eye Of Terror codex armies)

    I dont see any gameplay issues, for instance, with aving the ultramarines attack earth. it allows them towrite a series of novels (sell more books) Would make a potential Imperial Fists Codex a nice counterpoint to Codex Ultramarines(some people would hate this, but i for one would like to see a divergent chapter that doesnt shit giant bats or wolves, and also didnt recognise rowboat gullible as their spiritual liege)

    They dont actually have to destroy either chapter, just make good on all the hints about both chapters.

    Sgame thing with all the other rumours, the cabal, the watchers, possible 40k dogs of war, some nonsense i heard about ressurecting the emporer, blackstone fortresses having some purpose other than killing necrons.

    All of this could be elaborated on in fiction, without unwriting someones codex.

    Heck it would probably give them more ammunition for future codexes. CODEX: THE EMPORER AND HIS BITCHES anyone?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:42 No.8257813
    >>8257781
    Im out of interesting on topic information anyway. You?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:44 No.8257822
    >>8257808
    Black stone fortresses where created in the war against C'Tan it's no wonder thats all there for.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:45 No.8257824
    >Roboute was the greatest tactician amongst his Primarch brothers.
    What about the Lion you smurflover
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:45 No.8257825
    >>8257822
    there
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:45 No.8257826
    >>8257824
    HAHAHAHAHAHA
    Lion.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:46 No.8257834
    >>8257822
    >>8257822
    THEIR
    WHY DID I REPEAT MY MISTAKE IN MY FIX!!!
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:47 No.8257845
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    >>8257826
    what so funny boy ?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:48 No.8257851
    >>8257845
    Thanks for the weapons.
    Lots of love
    Iron warriors.
    >> Idaeus !!Qu15q8GN3vp 02/24/10(Wed)06:50 No.8257864
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    >>8257824

    >great tactician

    >ignores the heresy

    >half the chapter turns renegade

    >blows up his own planet

    I think there's a reason they don't mention the Lion.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:51 No.8257870
    >>8257845
    I think he's implying that Lion only ever used his abilities as a tactician to get into a manwhore's pants.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:52 No.8257878
    Codex: Space Marines, page 13

    >He [Guilliman] succeeded in liberating more worlds during the Great Crusade than any other Primarch

    >Because of their strong recruitment base and Roboute Guilliman's tactical expertise, the Ultramarines soon became the largest Space Marine Legion, having more recruits and suffering fewer casualties than any other Legion.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:52 No.8257879
    >The Sensei
    As the Powers of the Warp have their own mortal champions, so too does the Star Child. The Star Child's champions are known as the Sensei. Although they do not necessarily know their true identity, they are actually descendants of the Emperor. Nor is the Emperor himself aware of his immortal descendants.


    The Sensei have inherited great power from the Emperor. They are immortal; although they can be killed, they do not age, and possess amazing powers of recovery. They are also by their nature protected from the Chaos Powers. Because they harbor none of the emotions or concepts embodied by the Chaos Powers they are largely invisible to them, and can draw on the energies of the warp to use their psychic powers without risk of attracting daemons or other malicious forces of the warp. Due to their harmonious relationship with the warp, the Sensei are invisible to psychic senses, even to those of the Emperor.
    Sensei Adventurer Bands
    Sensei wander throughout the galaxy. Their origins are unknown to the Inquisition, who view them as dangerous mutants and heretics. In contrast to the forces of the Imperium, Sensei are natural rebels. As well as being enemies of Chaos, Sensei are enemies of oppression. They and their followers operate as outlaw bands, and appear across the Imperium to fight against repression and injustice. As such they often come into conflict with the Imperium.


    >The Imperium regards the Sensei as dangerous bandits and nihilists who, if not actually in league with Chaos, are weakening the Imperium's defense against Chaos. Because of their powers and militantly anti-authority natures, they are hunted down and killed by Imperial forces, which in turn forces the Sensei to operate as outlaws. Captured Sensei can be rendered down to manufacture the negative psychic energy used in psycannon bolts
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:53 No.8257886
    >>8257879
    Screwed up the greentext, but this shit is interesting and slightly on topic.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:57 No.8257921
    >>8257878
    Guy was trying to carve out his own Imperium before the emperer died.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:57 No.8257926
    Fuck year Sensei.

    What happens when a godlike immortal being like The Emperor gets busy?

    Yeah. Supermen. That's fucking what.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:58 No.8257931
    >>8257879
    >Sensei
    fucking weaboo name, but its seems cool.

    for shit like this, if they were gonna steal any name for them from the fapanese language it should be Ronin.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:58 No.8257933
    >>8257879
    Tzeentchian cult, disregard.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:58 No.8257935
    Roboute was a true bro, don't be hating on him now.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)06:59 No.8257937
    To be fair, the Sensei were introduced in the late 80s, when weeabooism was still a minor affliction on the world.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:00 No.8257941
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    >>8257808
    Several points that should probably be made.

    The Eye of Terror campaign is an on-off referenced clusterfuck. The Expansion of the Tau Empire is an event that pales in comparison to the Ultramarines seceding from the Imperium and besieging Terra all in one go.

    It would be a game-shatteringly important event that would change the entire dynamic, lore and god knows what else of the game. The entire status quo would seize up and keel over.

    That's great for a novel series, but 40K is first and foremost a traditional tabletop game.

    Seriously, the game is an untapped mess of stories as it is, and asking they smash it into pieces to make it shiny and new is about as retarded as you can get.

    You can't back-peddle from something like that once it's done.
    >> Disciple of Tzeentch 02/24/10(Wed)07:00 No.8257942
    >>8257933

    We don't know anythin' about that, bro.

    It's your own fault.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:00 No.8257946
    Alpharius was here.

    Ultrasmurfs can suck my 20inch [spoiler]hydra[/spoiler]
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:01 No.8257956
    >>8257935
    Domo Arigato
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:01 No.8257959
    And they tried to fuck up the imperium directly after the heresy.
    Telling the Russ and Dorn they should split up his legion
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:02 No.8257973
    >>8257941
    Well i agree, kinda.

    Yes pretty much everything they have ever tried is a huge clusterfuck.

    But i see this as a reason to do something firm and concrete.Not a reason to not do it at all.
    >> Idaeus !!Qu15q8GN3vp 02/24/10(Wed)07:06 No.8257995
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    >>8257959

    Without splitting up the legion there might have been a second heresy seeing as there are marines joining chaos now.

    Now a small chapter may join chaos and nothing of value was lost, if we still had legions all we'd need was a corrupt Chapter M aster and a whole legion would fall.
    >> Frazer !!NNiZ5EzzZEM 02/24/10(Wed)07:06 No.8257998
    >>8257973

    40K doesn't have a "story" as such. What it has is a SETTING. People complaining about how the game doesn't "advance the storyline" are missing the point - entirely apart from the problem of making some armies redundant by story 'progression' ("you want to play Orks? Too bad, didn't you know about the Imperium inventing anti-fungal spray in 321.M42?"), it's chiefly a backdrop against which you can tell your own stories and design your own plots and campaigns.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:08 No.8258009
    >>8257973
    Continuing; I know they dont compare, but battletech does a great job of this. They write the fiction, they consult with all the same guys who have been writing this shit since the 80's, and they stick with it, whatever happened. THey advance the plot date every year or so, and it is delicious.

    Of course the games are beyond comparison, i just believe that 40k would benefit from this treatment.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:08 No.8258011
    > -Extremely reclusive, and does not willingly commit forces to goals that do not favor their agenda, irking much of the Imperium's hierarchy.

    Where does this come from? They're Ultramarines, not Dark Angels.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:09 No.8258014
    >>8257995
    >Now a small chapter may join chaos and nothing of value was lost

    what?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:10 No.8258021
    >>8257995
    Who has defected since the heresy? Relictors MAYBE, from the inquisitions perspective.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:11 No.8258030
    >>8257995
    > Without splitting up the legion there might have been a second heresy seeing as there are marines joining chaos now.

    There nearly was a second heresy over splitting up the legions, Roboute was willing to go to war to get the codex through. If the other Primarchs had been only slightly less reasonable the Imperium would have been torn apart.
    >> Frazer !!NNiZ5EzzZEM 02/24/10(Wed)07:11 No.8258031
    >>8258011

    Yeah, the Ultramarines are pretty enthusiastic about contributing whenever and wherever they can. The worlds of Ultramar are exempt from the Guard, for instance, but despite that they regularly contribute regiments anyway precisely because of their tradition of service.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:11 No.8258032
    Ok guys headfuck incoming.

    As some of you know Alpharius had a twin brother. Omegon. The two brothers switched roles with Alpharius being the public face and Omegon being the behind the scenes side of their dual identity. Sometimes described as one soul in two bodies.


    SO

    We know the Ultramarines fought one big battle against the Alpha Legion after the heresy. Well...what you don't know is what really happened.

    The Ultramarines were defeated. Completely. Roboute was slain along with every Ultramarine who went with him. Omegon having undergone much surgery and preparation took Roboute's place assuming his identity with many of his Alpha Legion joining him pretending to be Ultramarines.

    Alpharius faked his demise so that he could go about things unmolested assuming the identity of one of the many lower leaders inside the Alpha Legion (none outside the legion know of this however). Omegon then went back to the Ultramarines and completed the codex.

    But he added things. Deeply rooted psychological triggers to turn future space marines into raving lunatics or obedient slaves, secret flaws in their tactics and training and more all there waiting to be exploited by the one who knew these secrets.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:11 No.8258033
    >>8257998
    Battletech destroyed the Free Worlds League. People still play them. Same as Smoke Jaguars. They are now an ex faction, but that doesnt stop people from playing them on the battlefield, because they existed at some point in time, they can be fielded.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:12 No.8258036
    >>8258032

    Alpharius worked outside the Imperium to prepare the legion for its ultimate task while Omegon worked inside the Imperium to prepare it.

    Now Omegon was not critically wounded in the battle against the Emperors children. In reality he was dealt what to a primarch is only a glancing blow the story of poison being a lie. Having completed his preparations he conspired with Alpharius to prepare for Omegon to go into hiding. Omegon wisely chose to hide in plain sight.

    So a bargain was struck between Alpharius and Fulgrim. In exchange for seemingly dealing Omegon a fatal blow the Alpha Legion gave Fulgrim some unknown boon.

    And so Omegon waits. He waits in stasis for the next stage of the plan where he will be awoken to lead the space marines of the Imperium on a purge of the galaxy greater than any other.

    He and his brother will kill Chaos.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:13 No.8258048
    >>8257998
    This. Good lord this.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:15 No.8258055
    Guilliman arranged the splitting of Legions in a way that would ensure his gene-seed's prominence from the beginning.

    Codex Astartes, page 14:

    >Most of the old Legions divided into fewer than five chapters, but the Ultramarines were split many times. The exact number of Chapters created from the Ultramarines is uncertain: the number listed in the oldest copy of Codex Astartes gives the total as twenty three, but does not name them.

    >As a result of the Second Founding, the Ultramarines' gene-seed became pre-eminent.

    The fact that the Ultramarine successors are formally not a single organization is remedied by their common spiritual heritage and their loyalty to the lord of Ultramar, whoever he might be.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:15 No.8258056
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    >>8258036

    Pic Related, Alpharius and Omegon
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:19 No.8258075
    >>8258033

    Your point is not necessarily valid. For Games Workshop to remove a faction from the 40K setting they would probably have to remove an entire species.

    This would then probably be coupled with their proven stance of "Look, they are all dead, OK? Dead dead dead. Dead. Don't talk about them ever. La la la la not listening."
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:19 No.8258077
    >>8258055

    Beyond the Second Founding, it is the Imperium decides what new chapters to create however, not the Ultramarines. I imagine after the Ultramarines it's the other "stable" chaters like the Raven Guard and Imperial Fists that get attention, with the Blood Angels and Space Wolves being treated with a degree on concern and distrust.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:19 No.8258083
    >>8254715

    Augh, who is this artist? All his pictures use the same freakin' face, and ridiculously oversized power armour (even for 40K).

    Also, tinyhead Marneus Calgar has a tiny head.
    >> Idaeus !!Qu15q8GN3vp 02/24/10(Wed)07:22 No.8258093
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    >>8258055

    The fact that Guilliman was willing to split up his legion even though it was the biggest is a testament to his loyalty.

    The reason he was prepared to take up arms against Dorn was because he knew that a whole legion was too much power for one man to wield.

    Seeing as the Ultramarines outnumbered the other chapters he knew that he would get the other Primarch's to accept the codex.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:23 No.8258100
    >>8258093
    Ultrafag Detected
    >> Idaeus !!Qu15q8GN3vp 02/24/10(Wed)07:24 No.8258103
    >>8258077

    Raven guard geneseed is seldom used since it's degraded so far that many of the organs no longer function.

    Ultramarine, Dark Angel and Imperial Fist geneseed tends to be used the most.
    >> Idaeus !!Qu15q8GN3vp 02/24/10(Wed)07:26 No.8258122
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    >>8258100

    No shit Sherlock?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:26 No.8258125
    >>8258077

    Codex: Space Marines states that the gene-seed of the chapters in "Aberrant" category (Templars, Angels, Wolves) is no longer the source of fresh chapters.

    The Ultramarine successor are by far the largest group of Space Marines.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:27 No.8258130
    >>8258033
    Right up until rules changes fucks unsupported armies in the ass.

    What's that? The fans can still work their own codex? So how is that different from just making up your own shit in the first place?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:29 No.8258148
    >>8258122

    holy overhighlighting batman!
    >> Idaeus !!Qu15q8GN3vp 02/24/10(Wed)07:30 No.8258149
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    >>8258130

    If you own an unsupported 3rd edition army you can still use it together with the 3rd edition rulebook against other 3rd edition armies.

    Don't blame GW just because your group doesn't want to play against your army.
    >> Sil !!Z9B6Ms74H9Q 02/24/10(Wed)07:30 No.8258151
    >>8258130

    As a Necron fan, I see nothing but a nasty irony in your post here.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:31 No.8258156
    >>8258130
    if there are still rules you can still play, please refer to the avatarfags trolling of me earlier in this thread for an application of trolling you about gw stopping your imaginings
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:32 No.8258163
    >>8258122
    Hey Kids! Its the Blue Man Group!

    Excelsior!
    >> Idaeus !!Qu15q8GN3vp 02/24/10(Wed)07:32 No.8258167
    >>8258148

    Yeah I made them quite bright which looks meh in the pictures.

    Makes them stand out on a giant battlefield though.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:32 No.8258172
    >>8258122
    Jesus fuck does the shoe fit. Are you autistic or some shit?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:33 No.8258173
    >>8258151
    >Necron fan
    0/10
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:33 No.8258178
    What kind of amuses me though, is that with all this "Ultramarines are secretly up to no good" stuff going on (which is admittedly cool), there's just one problem.

    Roboute was a High Lord of Terra. He didn't just shape how the Space Marines were run, he reshaped how the Imperial Navy, the Imperial Guard and so on and so on functioned so that one man would never able to wield power of the calibre of Horus ever again.

    If he was secretly planning something, he had the time, place and opportunity to pull it off all in one go. He could have easily subverted everything to his will and relied on the nature of his brothers to trot off and get themselves killed.

    He didn't.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:34 No.8258189
    >>8258130
    So your point is that the fiction will directly affect the rules. man that means for about half a book GW was gonna make a codex iron men. but then gaunt won. Phew
    >> Sil !!Z9B6Ms74H9Q 02/24/10(Wed)07:34 No.8258194
    >>8258173

    Eat a dick. Just because GW seems intent on killing them through codex creep doesn't mean people don't play them.
    >> Idaeus !!Qu15q8GN3vp 02/24/10(Wed)07:35 No.8258198
    >>8258172

    Not sure what you mean...

    Anti-social as only an engineer student can be, not autistic though.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:35 No.8258199
    >>8258178
    no. but he is in stasis. put there by the alphus.
    biding his time? where is the proof he is poisoned?
    >> Idaeus !!Qu15q8GN3vp 02/24/10(Wed)07:37 No.8258209
    >>8258199

    He wasn't put there after the fight against Alpharius, it was Fulgrim who slit his throat several years later.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:37 No.8258211
    >>8258199
    Fulgrim poisoned him.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:38 No.8258218
    >>8258198

    Autism is the preferred insult of retards, who read the wikipedia article and become experts in identifying autism in everybody. He's probably an ED fag too.
    >> Frazer !!NNiZ5EzzZEM 02/24/10(Wed)07:39 No.8258229
    >>8258178

    Hell, Guilliman wasn't just a High Lord - as Lord Commander Of The Imperium, he was Emperor II in everything but name.

    He held dictatorial power over the Imperium for a decade - and once the Scourging was complete, the Imperium reconsolidated and the Horus Heresy finally wrapped up, HE ABDICATED.

    For someone who had literally unlimited power to voluntarily cede that authority - and not having any more subtle 'power behind the throne' caveats to replace it - is a pretty solid indicator that Roboute didn't have oppression on the cards.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:40 No.8258238
    >>8258178

    What makes you think he didn't take control of the Imperium? The fact that he didn't declare himself a tyrant?

    No. Guilliman's method was far more subtle. The guy basically established the Imperium, made it so that the descendants of his Legion form a vast majority of the Astartes and had his writings on military strategy become the basis of Imperial doctrine.

    Guilliman's takeover was the best example of bureaucrats prevailing over conquerors in the entire 40k history.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:41 No.8258250
    >>8258122
    Congratulations, you are an unwitting tool of treason. Though, I must admit, maybe not a tool of chaos..
    >> Idaeus !!Qu15q8GN3vp 02/24/10(Wed)07:42 No.8258256
    >>8258238

    So he had control over the entire Imperium, and what does he do with his power?

    Makes sure the Ultramarines don't have more power than any other chapter.
    >> Frazer !!NNiZ5EzzZEM 02/24/10(Wed)07:42 No.8258263
    >>8258238

    >>Guilliman's takeover was the best example of bureaucrats prevailing over conquerors in the entire 40k history.

    ...which, of course, is precisely what the Emperor wanted, seeing as he created the Council of Terra (of which the modern High Lords are a restatement) which so many of the Primarchs were hissy-fitting against before the Heresy.

    Guilliman was realising his father's vision, not his own ego.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:43 No.8258266
    >>8258229
    He unwrote all of the emporers writings on not worshipping him as a god. if he works for chaos, that would be his goal, to reestablish fear in divinity, which tghe emporer strived to dedtroy
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:43 No.8258268
    >>8258238

    He was just very competent, that's all. He selflessly used his intelligence and gifts for the betterment of mankind, instead of whining about his "issues" all the time like some other primarchs.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:43 No.8258270
    >>8258194
    Tell that to those Squat players.
    >> Sil !!Z9B6Ms74H9Q 02/24/10(Wed)07:43 No.8258272
    >>8258250

    >collect Ultramarines
    >get mocked by players for being bland
    >trollface.jpg
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:44 No.8258278
    >>8258238
    Exactly. Guilliman set up his "I WIN" button in the form of the many Ultramarine successor chapters which are the Space Marine equivalent of a businessman giving one of his businesses to his wife for tax purposes then gladly "abdicated" knowing full well that the Ultramarines would have the Imperium over a barrel for the rest of forever. Plus he went off and carved out his own little Imperium in the Ultramar sector, just in case.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:44 No.8258280
    Also this thread is getting kinda pathetic. It's reached the point where the guys who clearly Didn't Do The Research are just being contrary to the fluff for it's own sake. Fuck off.
    >> Idaeus !!Qu15q8GN3vp 02/24/10(Wed)07:44 No.8258281
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    >>8258250

    Yeah, because my army follows your fanwank fluff amirite?

    Go write some Twilight fiction and try to pass it off as canon on the Twilight forums, you'll blend in better there...
    >> Frazer !!NNiZ5EzzZEM 02/24/10(Wed)07:45 No.8258285
    >>8258266

    Not true. worship of the Emperor wasn't a top-down imposition - it was a bottom-up surge of millenarian fervour amongst the common populace. The Adeptus Ministorum wasn't even created until .M32, a millenium afterwards, when the Temple of the Saviour Emperor became so widesprad it had to be institutionalised.
    >> Sil !!Z9B6Ms74H9Q 02/24/10(Wed)07:45 No.8258286
    >>8258270

    "It should also be noted that anyone who mentioned squats on the Games workshop message boards (which clossed on Wednesday, 15th November, 2006) got permanently banned on the first offense with no warning."
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:46 No.8258296
    The Alpha Legion are secret loyalists, Ultramarines are secret traitors and the Dark Eldar are secretly Necrons?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:46 No.8258301
    >>8258296

    They are the good guys
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:47 No.8258303
    >>8258296

    HERP DERP HOW "EDGY"
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:47 No.8258305
    >>8258278

    It's not Roboute.

    See:
    >>8258036
    >>8258032


    The Alpha legion is planning to kill Chaos!

    By killing everything.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:48 No.8258310
    >It was highly speculated by Inquisitor Kryptman
    Wasn't Kryptman, you know, an Alpha Legion operative?

    Also:
    HYDRA DOMINATUS
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:48 No.8258315
    >>8258296

    The Dark Eldar are secretly Tyranids who are secretly Squats who are secretly Games Workshop who are secretly Eldrad who is secretly the Emperor
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:48 No.8258318
    >>8258256

    What kind of power are they lacking? The realm of Ultramar is the largest of Chapter realms and has an unprecedented degree of independence, and all the Ultramarine successors accept the lord of Macragge their distant lord and the rightful successor of Guilliman. The Ultramarines don't have to number in tens of thousands or have their Captains named High Lords to be the most powerful military force in the Imperium.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:49 No.8258320
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    >>8258238
    Kinda grasping at straws there man.

    >>8258266
    That happened long after his passing.

    >>8258278
    And this doesn't even make sense since the Ultramarines can never be in a position to take things over, even if they got half of the founding chapters on their side. It's a logistical impossibility that the rest of the Imperial forces that they DON'T control help ensure. If they were going to do it, the best time would be when he was still alive.

    Not to mention the stupidity of ensuring your forces remain dominant through division when you're dead, when you're someone who by all accounts hasn't even got a use-by date on your existence unless you go out and get KILLED.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:49 No.8258321
    >>8258301
    >good guys
    >Orks not mentioned in post
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:49 No.8258322
    >>8255013
    >>8254960
    Grey knights are comprised of loyalists from the traitor chapters.
    >>8255244
    Logan Grimnar carries a daemon axe of khorne.
    >>8256881
    White scars=Space Wolves=BFF.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:50 No.8258330
    >>8258296
    No silly, tau ethereals are secretly necrons

    duh
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:51 No.8258335
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    >>8258305
    >> Sil !!Z9B6Ms74H9Q 02/24/10(Wed)07:51 No.8258336
    >>8258322
    >White scars=Space Wolves=BFF.

    Tied together, forever, by a common love of facial hair.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:51 No.8258338
    >>8258281
    Come on, are you so blind? And ad hominems, truly your lack of power speaks for itself.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:52 No.8258341
    >>8258330
    And the Necrons are secretly the Old Ones, GW just made that story about 'ancient wars between the necrontyr and the Old Ones' up to confuse us!
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:52 No.8258345
    >>8258320
    Is even half a million Space Marines enough to defeat several trillion guardsmen?

    >>8258330
    The ethereals are secret Fimir.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:53 No.8258346
    >White scars=Space Wolves=BFF.

    Funny one would say that, since the Scars were among the fiercest supporters of Guilliman and his Codex, and were ready to war against Dorn, Russ and other naysayers over the issue.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:55 No.8258365
    >>8258345

    These are fluff marines
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:55 No.8258366
    >>8258345
    1 million worlds, "small" PDF equaling 3-9 million, 10% of PDF tithed to Guard so:

    1000 trillion PDF, 100 Trillion guard assuming average PDF of 10 million?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:56 No.8258373
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    >>8258345
    Space Marines simply do not have the logistical power for long-term warfare. They can't take in new recruits fast enough, much lost technology is nigh-irreplaceable and a much of their equipment relies on a beneficial system where they work with other factions such as the Mechanicus to enable them to properly maintain what they are given.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:57 No.8258380
    Then who was phone?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:57 No.8258383
    >>8258366

    depends. Some worlds have next to no PDF
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:58 No.8258389
    >>8258373
    Mechanicus? You mean the Adeptus MecHobgoblins?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)07:58 No.8258390
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    >>8258336
    Your beard, can I touch it?
    >> Sil !!Z9B6Ms74H9Q 02/24/10(Wed)07:59 No.8258397
    >>8258373
    >Mechanicus

    and by extension, the C'tan.

    trollface.jpg
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)08:01 No.8258407
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    This thread was brought to you by the Word Bearers Legion.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)08:02 No.8258412
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    >>8258338

    You are backing up conspiracy theories with fan fiction.

    Did you really think people wouldn't laugh at you?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)08:04 No.8258435
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    >>8258412
    see
    >>8258407
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)08:06 No.8258445
    The Ultramarines are like Eragon, John Galt or Richard Rahl.

    Does anyone really think an ascended fanboi like Matt Ward would make them secretly evil?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)08:06 No.8258448
    >>8258383
    Yeah but some have huge forces, IRL Earth has at least 25-30 million primary PDF and 200-300 secondary and tertiary PDF not to mention massive numbers of pre Dark age war machines like modern tanks and fighters.

    Think on that and consider the level of militarization of the IoM and remember that some hives have more people than our entire planet.

    Once you think about it a average of 10 million Primary PDF per world is pretty dam low.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)08:09 No.8258463
    >>8258448

    Many planetary PDFs are also poorly equipped.

    It is not uncommon to see PDF airforces using prop driven planes while the Imperial Navy uses only vector thrust aircraft.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)08:11 No.8258482
    >>8258463
    True but the 10% that are tithed to the guard have standard STC gear.
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)08:31 No.8258657
    >>8258482

    As soon as the guard takes them. They don't have it when they're still part of the PDF
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)10:02 No.8259277
    I think the idea here is that if GW let the SMurfs become interesting, all the fluff is in place for this to work out. Sure, Gulliman had all the power in the Imperium at one point and split it up. But really now, if he had gone all tyrannical et all do you really think it would have lasted? This way works more in a long term strategy instead; keeps the Imperium weak and divided while rebuilding Chaos' powerbase. Perhaps the goal of Malai?
    >> Anonymous 02/24/10(Wed)11:56 No.8260412
    >>8254643
    Very true.



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