The Dawn War did not transpire as most in the universe believe it to be. The primordials were all either slain or sealed away in the furthest reaches of the planes, but the balance of the cosmos took its toll on the opposite side of the war too. The gods had sacrificed themselves to fell the mightiest of the primordials. The unyielding chains that bound Mual-Tar, the Thunder Serpent, were forged from the iron hearts of Bane and Bahamut. Rorn, the Blazing Fury, was only pacified after Melora had decomposed her being into a great ocean that could cool the towering pyre. Piranoth, the World Mover, exhausted the will and the flesh of Moradin and Corellon, who had used their mastery over earth and the elements to imprison the primordial. And only the gravity of the greatest neutron star, that which was once Pelor, could keep Atropus, the World Born Dead, in orbit far away from the world of mortals.

It was a pyrrhic victory indeed, and the servants of both the primordials and the deities mourned their masters' passing. The demons, the archons, and the elementals, however, found that their command over the building blocks of the cosmos was left unfettered. The Elemental Chaos still stood, and their power from it was not abruptly cut off. So too, did the angels, the devils, and the mortal servants of the divine discover that their link to the Astral Sea was not severed. What both sides soon rationalized was that though the primordials and the gods had forged the world, their presence was not needed by creation any longer, just as a building still stands if its architect perishes. Their ties to their respective planes was all they needed to exercise their power.

The votaries knew that chaos would erupt in the world should the knowledge of the fall of the divine were to be disseminated. Through a project conducted in collaboration with the primal spirits of the land, the dispassionate third party who had observed the Dawn War, the world was deceived and led to believe that the pantheon had triumphed resplendently and were hale and hearty in their thrones in their astral dominions. Faith was a keystone that most sapient life strongly tended towards, and the concept of a deity, a figurehead, a personification of a set of beliefs one could live by, and perhaps even fight and die for, made investing one's faith in something that much easier. Divine magic was no different from the methods of the arcane; rather than forging ties with the Feywild, the Shadowfell, the Elemental Chaos, or the Far Realm, the Astral Sea was the radiant weapon wielded by the pious. Why, then, should the status quo be disrupted, thought the upper choirs of angels and those who were present for the Dawn War? Those angels whose devotion and power had evolved them into aspects could even be used to strengthen the illusion, and surely, an excuse such as "In the aftermath of the Dawn War, the gods have left the fate in the world in the hands of its rightful heritors. They shall directly intervene no more," would be enough to hand-wave the lack of tangible deific activity.

This results of this ruse were far more satisfactory than they had ever anticipated. The gods were still worshipped. Praises and dirges were sung to Erathis as civilizations rose and fall, conquerors and generals beseeched Bane for the skill and resolve necessary to lay their enemies low, assassinations were carried out and malice was spread in the name of Lolth and Zehir. Divine power continued to prosper. Invokers of militant gods stood at the gates of the Abyss and decimated hordes of demonic brutes with detonations of radiant energy, avengers of Melora struck down those eldritch monstrosities that leaked forth from Far Realm breaches using blades infused with astral essence, and clerics and paladins of opposing deities clashed time and again as conflicts of belief never truly cease.

To this day, only the highest echelons of angels and the eldest of the primal spirits are cognizant of the truth surrounding the gods. Is it really so bad, though? The gods may as well have never died off.

>>7628617
>And only the gravity of the greatest neutron star, that which was once Pelor, could keep Atropus, the World Born Dead, in orbit far away from the world of mortals.

I find this really poetic for some reason. A god of life who fights against the undead is forced to commit suicide and become an undead star to keep an undead primordial planet away from the world.

But seriously, it was a nice couple piece of fluff, Touhou.

>>7628640
>Lolth
That one might be harder to explain away, Touhou, seeing as the Queen Bitch is all up in her subordinate's business.

And here I thought touhoufag was all crunch no fluff.

Pretty nice, if I do say so myself.

>>7629068
It could just be an image of Lolth created to pull a fast one on worshipers via her angels and stuff. Or it actually IS Lolth, because she didn't bother sacrificing herself in the Dawn War.

Am I the only one flashing back to Pern? I hope the dead world is called the Red Star.

Also, power vacuums make strife. This is practically begging for a War in Heaven (and Hell, and the Feywild, and everywhere else). I guess I can see this being held from the faithful, and only released to the chosen few, say, level 20+. I do like the idea of a "well shit, what do we do now" moment with the PCs. The answer obviously being become gods.
I guess you'd start to get suspicious after a few Contact Other Planes get "This is the Angel Gabriel, Pelor isn't in, but if you'd like to leave a message..."

>>7629121
The problem with Lolth not an heroing herself would be that she's now the single most powerful entity in the multiverse. Thank... errr, no, he's dead... and her, and... well damn. Anyway, thank goodness she's so epitome of Chaotic Stupid and will keep the drow crippled and almost harmless to the surface dwellers.
>>7629159
I think it'd not be so much an all-out war, but political infighting, with the ultimate goal being someone weasels out a divine spark and then starts bashing heads. And yeah, time for the party to start refilling the pantheon manually.

>>7628983

I had not realized that until you had so conveniently delineated the subtext.

>>7629068

It stands to reason that a deity who holds deception in her portfolio would have had the most cunning manipulators and sly prevaricators amongst her highest-ranking ministers and hierophants, and that their promotion of the continued "existence" of their deity would be particularly seamless, using aspects, devils, demons, and the drow to form an entangling web of deceit.

That said, this view of the divine does rule out some of the optional canon presented in official material, such as the prospect of Torog being alive, well, and active in the bowels of the Underdark.

>>7629159

>The answer obviously being become gods.
The player characters could either preserve the status quo, under the belief that the cosmos does not require deities, as the past several centuries have clearly shown, or they could ascend and claim the empty thrones for themselves. The latter option would only be tenuously beneficial for the world.

>I guess you'd start to get suspicious after a few Contact Other Planes
Divination rituals, even the level 26 Voice of Fate, never directly contact deities by default. Only their servants respond.

>>7629244
>Only their servants respond.

So its like a big corporation?

>>7629358
No, he said their servants respond, not you get endlessly trapped in a PBX pushing numbers futilely hoping to get routed to the Greater Healing and Curses department.

>>7629244
>tenuously beneficial
I haven't played with a terribly large number of groups, but my general impression is "get buff, kill your enemies" is the name of the game in D&D, and godhood is pretty much a win condition for that (or almost any other goal).

My point is that someone, if not everyone, will move to take over the empty thrones, and having a power vacuum extremely unstable. Moreover, even amongst the angels, I'd think enough of them would have the "my way is best" urge that any sort of peace would be tenuous at best. But then, I'm not really up on the 4e fluff, so maybe angels get along better now.

I'm not saying any of this is a problem. The question of what to do with the power vacuum is the whole point of this scenario. I just suspect that leaderlessness is not a stable condition.

>>7629358
>>7629544
That's Shadowrun, silly.

>>7629683
Notihng says we can't have silly corporations in D&D.

>>7629640
I think his point might be better expressed by one of two ideas (I'm not fully certain with what touhou meant, but here are my opinions.):
1. It might be only tenuously beneficial since you are not the actual god. If I ascend to the god of strength, then anyone following Kord is going to get a hell of a shock, which can lead to a lot of stuff going wrong. Or, like in Terry Pratchett's Mort, it might be that I, as a flawed and mortal vessel, would bring to my rank elements of corruption. Give me the power of the god of strength, and I'll use it to crush anyone I disagreed with, sort of thing.
2. Alternatively, it could be a sort of Ying-Yang thing, wherein my ascension to divinity stirs the elemental chaos, perhaps even birthing another primodial.
3. I thought of this while writing, so pardon my incorrect numbering: it might create a bad example. As I mentioned, if I become the god of strength, and demand people worship me instead of Kord, I have to explain what happened to him. And if I admit that I, a mortal, have replaced Kord, I have, by extension, suggested that any mortal with sufficient drive and skill may supplant me. I've made it a war between Gods and Mortals.

On the other hand, the setting could also make for a good campaign wherein the PCs get channel divinities appropriate to their interests, and the avatar epic destinies, to represent that the heavens are restoring themselves.

Creates problems with Invokers, thanks to the fact that they hear the word of god directly.

It does point out the illogic of eliminating Divine from Dark Sun though.

>>7629883

You actually can Invoke dead gods. But that's because they have some sort of Lovecraftian shit going.

>>7629837

The issue can be simplified as follows: Kord, the deity of honor in battle, strength, and storms has been nonexistent for the past several centuries. Despite this, honor and glory are concepts held in high regard by many; the laws of physics surrounding mass, volume, and density are fully stable (short of tampering through supernatural methods); and hurricanes, typhoons, monsoons, and their kin occur as they should thanks to the laws of the natural world, perhaps minorly overseen by the primal spirits. Kord had likely programmed them into the universe, and it does not require his perpetual maintenance. What good, then, would a new figure having taken the unoccupied throne of Kord do but incite bedlam and confusion all throughout the planes?

>>7629883

There is nothing to say that invokers truly commune with their respective patrons.

>>7629883
There used to be clerics in Dark Sun, but they'd be more like Chosen Ones in 3e, and they were all affiliated with the Elements of Fire, Water, Earth, and Air.
Oh, and the Templars of the Dragon-Kings.

>>7630087 There is nothing to say that invokers truly commune with their respective patrons.

Divine power sidebar "Destined for Greatness".

>>7630133
I don't see anything there that says HEY, THEY'RE TALKING TO YOU, FOR REAL!

>>7630157

"direct, moment-by-moment connection to the gods".

>>7630198
So they're like any other divine class with a direct connection to the Astral?

>>7630245

The first half of the quoted sentence was "Others, even other divine characters, lack your".

>>7630268
So then despite the fact that they're not that different from any other divine character, they commune with the divine...

But wait, they can do that with dead gods too, so it's not like they're actually in contact with the real deal.

>>7630318

Nope. It's a completely different method of accessing divine power. Every single scrap of fluff on them plays the division up.

Paladin/Cleric/Avenger? You went to Paladin/Cleric/Avenger school where they did some magic to you that lets you cast spells fueled by divine energy.

Invoker? A god has placed a piece of himself within your soul, which allows you to directly hear his commands and channel his power. With training, you can twist this ability to also let you access the power of other gods, including dead gods whose remnants still hold some of their strength and will.

So yes, it is certainly possible to refluff Invokers for a world of dead gods. But it's a major refluff which destroys the entire essence of the class.

>>7630383
Invokers can channel the power of dead gods. This is canon.

If the gods are dead, invokers can still channel them. There is no conflict.

>>7630418

They can, but it's not standard. You're forcing alternate fluff on them just as badly as if you were to proclaim that all clerics/paladins/avengers had to be of the angel-touched variety, or all Rangers had to be raised by wolves.

>>7630430
>angel-touched variety

What?

I think the bigger ramification is what will happen when Orcus tries to oust the Raven Queen.

>And only the gravity of the greatest neutron star, that which was once Pelor, could keep Atropus, the World Born Dead, in orbit far away from the world of mortals.

>>7631442
Atropus is canon in 4e in Open Grave.

>My point is that someone, if not everyone, will move to take over the empty thrones, and having a power vacuum extremely unstable.

The PCs may very well be the first and last people to arise to be demigods.

anyway, this stuff is ridiculously good, and I'll probably use it as BEEG SORPRISE next time I run.

>>7630689

Basically, importing the old Paladin fluff for the non-Invoker divine classes.

>>7631467
HHNHNNNNGGGH

>You're forcing alternate fluff on them just as badly

OH NEOS A DM USING HIS OWN SETTING

Dear God this is horrifying. what's next, a DM who makes his own pantheon?!

>>7631502

Not complaining about the homebrewing. Homebrewing is great. I'm complaining about the claim that it's compatible with standard canon.

Damn it, Touhoufag. We are not your fucking blog. Can you please take this somewhere else where your fans can go and where the people who don't want to read don't ha--

Wait a minute.

This shit's actually pretty good, for once.

... Have a cigar, Touhoufag. This hater actually approves of this stuff.

>>7631541
And it is.

>>7631541
It's compatible with the standard canon with slight modifications.

>>7631549
Why can't you people learn to just /hide the threads/?

>And only the gravity of the greatest neutron star, that which was once Pelor, could keep Atropus, the World Born Dead, in orbit far away from the world of mortals.

DEEP IN THE ASTRAL SEA FROM THE PLANET PELORTRON

>>7631571
>>7631568

It's compatible with the standard canon via the destruction of an entire class's gimmick.

And sure, that's not a problem if you're upfront about it, since there are plenty of equally cool ways to refluff the class. The problem is the idea that you would keep this as a secret to spring on the players, when playing a game that was supposedly running on the standard fluff in which Invokers hear their gods speak to them continuously. At that point, unless he had been let in on it ahead of time, the Invoker would be absolutely within rights to call MASSIVE BULLSHIT on the plot twist.

>>7631673
I believe invokers have embryonic god-shards of the entire pantheon implanted upon them, they aren't in direct contact with an external god, instead they have a piece of all the gods within them. Should their alignment shift, their old god shard goes dormant and a new one becomes active.

>>7631673

"it was your self-confidence all along!"

Invoker gets hug from angel

>>7631581
Ignoring cancer lets it spread.

>>7631703

I believe Invokers have a single godshard that synchs up with whichever divine consciousness is closest to their own.

Also, if they're mentally weak they will eventually get their own personalities eaten up by the overpowering divine will.

>>7631727
Ah okay, nice.

>>7631714

At which point I tell the DM to fuck off, he's not allowed to retcon my character concept. If it needs adjustment to fit the world, that's fine, but that needs to be said AT CHARGEN. Fundamentally altering it months after the fact is absolute bullshit.

For comparison, consider showing up one day and learning that the DM has decided your character is actually an elf, not a human, because he wants you to be the long-lost prince of the Elven kingdom of Plotsylvania. That's the level of meddling we're talking about here.

>That's the level of meddling we're talking about here.

No, since he's not changing your race or class, just mandating one specific fluff option is being used.

A better analogy would be mandating that all PC infernal warlocks have their patron be The Prisoner or Glasya. And no, the PC wouldn't be in his rights to sperg out on the DM.

>>7631794

If it were mandated at chargen, then obviously it's fair play. Hell, even banning Invokers outright would be.

Not so otherwise.

>>7631806
Hmmm, no, is definitely not something that needs to be cleared with the PCs. Its an option that already exists in the fluff of the class, and I see nothing saying the DM needs the PC's position.

I'd also have it be the big reveal at the end of the campaign, so if the PC wants to throw a bitch fit and leave, he gets the pleasure of throwing away his character he brought from level 1 to 30.

>>7631829

Sure, there's nothing saying that you can't declare one of the PCs is actually an elf now either. Doesn't mean it's not a massive dick move.

>>7630087
>>7628626
>>7628611
Good god, I love the high res ones.

>>7631829

If you've got a PC playing the class that would by definition know, then yes, it does need discussed with him.

>>7631908
Nope, as that'd be a race change. This is designating a specific fluff option as the default...not a radical change by any means.

>>7631945

"You keep all your abilities that come from choosing to play a human, but you're an elf now, fluffwise." is exactly equivalent to "You keep all your abilities that come from choosing to play the direct hand of a god in the world, but you aren't anymore, fluffwise."

>>7631990
Nope, considering, again, invokers of dead gods are invokers, fluffwise.

>>7631718

I find this sentiment far, FAR too annoying to ignore

You know what you do then, you little fuckwit? !, -, MOVE ON. If the thread is so "cancerous," then the mods will take care of it

>BUT HURPDURP >IMPLYING MODS EXIST LOOL XDXD

No, fuck you. I've seen plenty of shitty, /tg/-unrelated avatarfag trollan threads get deleted. You know why? BECAUSE THOSE ARE THE ONLY THREADS INSUFFERABLE FUCKWITS LIKE YOU BOTHER TO REPORT

The mods are RIGHT FUCKING THERE AT THE PRESS OF A BUTTON, and if it's unrelated to the board, it will usually get deleted as long as that fucking button gets pressed. BUT OH HO HO, HERE COMES MACHO DICK WITH HIS HEAD FULL OF VIGILANTE STORIES AND A POINT TO MAKE. He's gunna go and play internet-police, sagefaging the thread up because HE DOESN'T APROVE OF IT

Because what better way to contribute to the quality of a board than going into threads you don't like and acting like a goddamn chimpanzee, howling and throwing shit everywhere until everyone just takes their discussion somewhere else?

Fuck you and fuck people like you. You are not the 4chan quality control team. You're just another handful of retards just like the rest of us retards browsing this website. The only difference between us is when we see something we don't like, we have the goddamn courtesy to follow this one simple rule: !, -, MOVE THE FUCK ON. If the thread is REALLY that bad, it'll get deleted. If it isn't, then boo-fucking-hoo, I have to put up with a single goddamn minimized thread on the front page. Woe is me. At least I don't go and spread my own unique brand of cancer around in a thread where people are just trying to have a goddamn conversation

TLDR: No Anon, you are the cancer

is tf still floating around in this thread?
can you take a look at this?

i'll post it in here so i don't clutter the board.
i tried to do a cleric built for maximum healing. liked kalashtar, started at level 3.
look ok?

thanks

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Name, level 3
Kalashtar, Cleric
Build: Shielding Cleric
Kalashtar: Religion Bonus
Background: Divinely Inspired (+2 to Insight)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 11, Dex 8, Int 14, Wis 18, Cha 17.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 11, Dex 8, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 15.


AC: 18 Fort: 12 Reflex: 14 Will: 18
HP: 33 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 8

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +10, Diplomacy +9, Insight +14, Heal +11

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics -1, Arcana +3, Bluff +4, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance, History +3, Intimidate +4, Nature +5, Perception +5, Stealth -1, Streetwise +4, Thievery -1, Athletics

FEATS
Cleric: Ritual Caster
Level 1: Pacifist Healer
Level 2: Implement Expertise (holy symbol)

POWERS
Channel Divinity: Healer's Mercy
Cleric at-will 1: Astral Seal
Cleric at-will 1: Sacred Flame
Cleric encounter 1: Vengeful Flare
Cleric daily 1: Moment of Glory
Cleric utility 2: Angelic Witnesses
Cleric encounter 3: Hymn of Resurgence

ITEMS
Ritual Book, Adventurer's Kit, Symbol of the Holy Nimbus +1, Astral Fire Chainmail +1, Cloak of the Chirurgeon +1, Holy Healer's Morningstar +1
RITUALS
Gentle Repose, Create Holy Water

For all those complaining about the Invoker fluff:

"Perhaps you were trained in a secret monastery,
or you studied in a library where the universe’s oldest
lore was preserved. Or perhaps you experienced the
presence of your god firsthand and took a shard of divine power into yourself. You might even be an
immortal born into flesh, slowly awakening to the
awesome divine power that is your birthright."

The invokers use the covenant, yes. Those covenants might have been forged at the very beginning, during the Dawn War, and you take up their mantles, thus the secret lore and the monasteries. The shard of divine power might be from an echo of one of the fallen gods, finding a fragment of his voice at a tiny glimmer of divinity.

Chosen by the gods? Of a sort. Perhaps Lloth spun a tangled skein before her end, and the web of deception has led to a trick of fate to bring about her revival. Maybe an echo of Melora still remains in the heart of the wilderness, and through the arrangement of standing stones and wind whistling through the rock formations, you heard her voice. Have you seen the divine machinations within a certain sequence of notes that hint at the will of Corellon, or the art of war left by Bane to ensure his ultimate victory? Perhaps the covenant itself is the preservation of their will, the path chosen by the god, and by channeling the original impulse, you speak as the god once did.

Fluff is inspiration, not a chain.

And Touhou? Nice work. Nice work, indeed.

>>7631673

A setting variant wherein the pantheon is revealed to be long-deceased would not only tamper with the concept of a player character who happens to be an invoker, but also those of characters of the other three divine classes. The general theme of this twist is, as referenced in >>7628640, "Is it really so bad, though? The gods may as well have never died off."

It has already been established in official material that invokers can commune and channel the divine essence of departed deities, such as Amoth (Dragon Magazine #381), and that each invoker is invested with a fragment of astral spiritstuff that aligns with their patron deity (Dragon Magazine #382). In the setting variant proposed in the initial posts of this thread, each of these god fragments could be the quasi-sentient spark of divinity once possessed by each of the deities. On their own, the consciousness of such a shard is nearly nonexistent, but when stimulated by the piety and zeal of an invoker, it develops a sentience similar to that of an artificial intelligence. The personality of each shard is forged from how the invoker views the god, filtered by and refined with insights from the will of the Astral Sea, and indeed, two invokers of the same deity may receive differing messages. An unaligned invoker of Bane is given guidance of waging war and conquering lands for a rightful cause, whereas a chaotic evil invoker of the Iron General is nudged into spreading tyranny and bloodshed for its own sake.

When the grand reveal takes place, shall the invoker acknowledge that this shard has served as a wise mentor and that it is practically no different from her supposed deity speaking to her, or shall her beliefs crumble simply because it is not the genuine article she was guided by?

>>7632037
u mad

>>7632004

I'm pretty much convinced you're trolling at this point.

>>7632174

Well, either that or you have an epic feat in totally missing the point.

>>7632174
Here's a fun fact: did you know there are people who have different tastes than you? However, its a fact, not an opinion, that invokers can be A) servants of dead gods and B) immortals incarnated into the flesh.

Neither requires refluffing, and both are aspects of the fluff of the invoker class.

>>7632169

>>7632193

And if neither of those is an aspect of the fluff that I chose to play as, nor an aspect of the fluff that I was told I HAD to play as, then the DM is retconning my character concept after agreeing to it. How is this hard to understand?

>>7632234
That's like saying "If the DM has a Dramatic Reveal that the Arcane source can be explained by a Unified Field Theorem, my beautiful snowflake swordmage concept has been ruined!" Or, "If the Primal source actually gets power from five rings, and can summon Major Melora, my druid concept is tainted."

>>7632145

I believe the correct answer to this dilemma is "FUCK YOU, I AM NOW BANE."

>>7632234
If ACTUALLY TAKE YOUR TIME to designate your background to the DM, and he approves of it, then the DM has no right to keep you in the dark.

If you don't write a backstory for your char or at least talk to your DM what your backstory will be, then you have no right to complain if the DM takes liberties with your backstory as long as those liberties are represented fluff options.

>>7632272

Neither of those changes fundamentally alter the nature of the character.

>>7632289

That's what we're assuming I did.

Because it's what I always do.

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Vestibulum venenatis luctus neque, sed blandit sem cursus ac. Proin lobortis, nisl vel interdum cursus, nunc lectus eleifend nibh, vel vehicula sapien augue sit amet est. Fusce ut nunc a dui pharetra suscipit vel non tellus. Sed mauris lorem, malesuada et lacinia quis, volutpat quis augue. Etiam ut odio ipsum. Duis ullamcorper dolor non orci placerat faucibus sit amet fermentum nibh. Vivamus interdum rhoncus mauris; vitae ullamcorper leo suscipit sed. Quisque sit amet hendrerit nisl. Nam neque metus, tempus sed malesuada sed, sodales eu est? Sed sed mi at diam egestas ullamcorper in vitae felis. Fusce a odio enim, consequat pretium est.

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>>7632342
>>7632347

Oh yes, porn. That will totally drive people away from this thread rather than attracting them.

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>>7632317

Groovy.

>>7628611

This is pretty good. It provides an explanation for an Eberron-style faith- rather than alignment-based "deity"-follower interaction outside of Eberron.

I like.

Also, Lolth could just be insane and therefore harmless, and a war between different angelic factions can just be played out in politics and subtle assassinations, using mortals as pawns.

>>7632302
So explain to me how "I'm an invoker who made a pact with a god," and "I'm an invoker who made a pact with what turned out to be an echo of a god" are fundamentally different, from the character's point of view?

Your character thought he was talking to a god. It turns out he was slightly mistaken. The concept is not ruined, but it must react to the world around it.

>>7632417
Lolth fled one of the last primodials, weaving her web deeper and deeper in efforts to trap him. Eventually, the beast was ensnared, but not before she had spun so intricately that she could no longer escape. Now she lurks in the deep, unable to move, her screams never reaching mortal ears. All she can do is tug the strings, which vibrate up through the shadows of the Underdark, singing their silken song to the ears of the priestesses, who interpret her divine will in their backstabbing ways. Some say she toys with those above, others say she weeps at the misinterpretations of the mad clerics, while still others wonder if she knows not that her children even exist and worship her, and is lost to the depths, the last divinity, forever alone...

>>7632529
So like Kord making a boulder so dense that he can't lift it?

>>7632370
I like this one. What a heartful nekoromancer.

>>7629244
Torog's imprisoned in the Underdark; he might as well be dead the same way as Mual-tar might as well be.

>>7632641

I can't remember if it was canon or not but someone came up with an explanation a few days ago - basically, Torog used to be the god of Justice (and therefore punishment/incarceration) but was tainted by Tharizdun's shard of pure Evil shortly before the end of the Dawn War.

Realising that he was irredeemably sick and that if he did nothing, the corruption would soon overtake him, he used his last conscious and willing act to leave behind his divinity and fashion his own body into a prison to contain both himself and the Abyss' echo in the material worlds. Thus, Torog's sacrifice keeps the world safe from both himself and and Tharizdun's shard.

>>7632234
I hear "Wah, wah wah. The DM isn't allowed to do anything to me without my permission because my character is purrfect."

>>7632370
Why are you so fucking butthurt?

>>7632145
This makes more sense than the default fluff. A god isn't going to send hivemind commands to his invokers.

Touhou thread, so I'll ask

anyone have Touhou's alternate rules for skills?

>>7633131
Because a girl in a hat raped his parents.

Who are now DDDEEEEEAAAAAAADDDDD!

Sed ut lorem eet tellus porta feugiat eget et to 4e t 4e r. Donec mollis sodales quam, at varius arcu tici 4e nt n 4e c. Aliquam fringilla volutpat dolor, at osuere lorem enena 4e is ut. Aenean t mi tel 4 4e us, sed varius felis. Morbi ac nisl metus, nec orttitor risus. Aenean hendre 4e it tristique enim 4e d vehicula! Cras cosectetur nil et se 4e faucibus luctus. Donec ipsum augue, suscipit at tristique vitae, placerat et mi. Nunc mollis ve 4e it non eros fringilla ut l 4e oreet ligula fermentum! S 4e spendisse massa nunc, fringilla ut pretium a, fa 4e cibus at mauris. Curabitur laoeet tempor augue, eu accumsan t 4e llus ullamc 4e rper s 4e t amet. Ut urna sapien, fermentu 4e non venenatis eget, tempor ultricies od 4e o. Nullam euismod, leo ut feugiat dictm, ague urna vive 4e ra n 4e bh, a cond 4 mentum velit nisi vel elit. Integer eget blandit an 4e e. Aenea sodales mtus eu st pretium quis honcs massa semper. Duis ve 4e ena 4e 4e s daibus malesuada? Qusue do 4e or metus, adipiscing i 4e condim 4e ntum eu, feugiat aliquet ipsum! Phasellus vel dolor orci, in volutpat.

Well, the knowledge could come in useful. Not to mention you'd be lying if you said you weren't interested in the prospect of doing that sort of thing with Mima. With how she treated you when you first met...

Well then.

"I humbly request your instruction. Please teach me, Lady Mima."

Cap that off with a bow.

You straighten up and there's a long silence, Mima staring at you the whole while. After a while she starts to chuckle, and brings her hand up to stifle her ensuing laughter. Coming over to you with a sweeping movement, she catches you in a headlock, and brings her hand down to trace patterns along your chest, just like back during the walk to the manor.

"You really did ask nicely, didn't you?" She smiles warmly at you. "But that's good! Lesson one: always listen to your partner. Maybe not do as they say, but always listen at least!" She looks up and down the halls for a moment. "Alright, kid. Which way's your room?"

Assuming the room you always wake up in is yours, then... "West."

"Right." Mima immediately sets off to the east.

"This is the opposite direction of my room."

"Of course! If someone notices you're not at the party, where do you think they'll look first?" Her smile suddenly turns sly. "Unless you want someone to walk in on us?"

Well, depending on who... no, no. Probably better to avoid that line of thinking.

What's up? I just love touhou and 4e and want to share the love with you!

Quisque ticidunt libero eget est euismod in condimentum augue pulvinar. Ves 4 ibul 4e m sit amet ipsum sed pu 4e us lobort 4e s volutpat. Aenean faucibus, sapien sit a 4e e 4e acc 4e msan vu 4e putate; l 4 gula sem ornare mi, in elmentum eros loem vel lac 4e s. Donec luct 4e s elit vitae augue tempus eget faucibus odio pellentesque. Nulla cons 4e ctetur imperdie 4e eleifend. Nunc ac sapien non quam eleifend tristique. Ut pe 4e le 4e tesque nisl ac nunc facili 4e is venenatis. Pellen 4e 4e sque et nisl nec ante pretium pretium vitae in dolor. Curabitur tincidunt enim et enim ultrices lacinia. Viva 4e us vitae sem purus, non tincidunt le. Proin eleifen mi ut letus tempor pretiu?

Phsellus dictum; dolor et ultricies cursus, odio eros tristique una, a luct 4e s eros ligula quis magna! Pellentesque ha 4e itant morbi tristique senectus 4e t netu 4e et m 4e lesuada ames 4e c turis gestas. Cum sociis natoque penatibus et magni dis parturient monts, nscetu 4e 4e idiculus mu 4e . E 4e iam consequ 4e t sagittis lobortis. Vivamus et lacus mauris; ac consectetur enim. Donec orci aliquam.

"Alright, this'll do well enough."

Mima pulls to a stop in front of a randomly chosen room and flings the door open, revealing a much emptier mirror of the room that's been assigned to you. No real decorations at all, just hardwood floors, rice paper doors and walls, and a few highset windows. She shoves you into the room and quickly slips in behind you, sliding the door shut almost silently. She mumbles something about locks underneath her breath, but you don't catch it exactly.

"There ought to be a futon or something in the closet."

"No need, no need. We don't want to go around dirtying the house, now do we?"

Mima sweeps past you, her clothes falling to the ground piece by piece as she makes her way to the far wall, revealing every inch of her pale skin. You're left staring at her naked back as she stands there, tapping the floor with one foot impatiently, illuminated only by the soft moonlight pouring in through the windows. With a single gesture of her finger, her discarded clothing slither along the floor and swirl into a soft blanket that settles just in front of her. She looks over her shoulder at you, and you're captivated by the swaying of her long green hair.

"Well? Are we going to get started, or are you just going to stand there?"

You try to voice a response, but... the sight of her, the sound of her voice... you can't seem to coordinate yourself at all. She's really... well, you'd seen a lot of her before, but she's just beautiful like this; every curve, every smooth stretch of skin, every strand of hair, every detail of this image burns itself forever into your mind. You make a sort of weak squeak and stumble forward, tripping over your own feet and falling face forward towards the ground.

You stop suddenly, hovering about an inch off the ground. You can hear an amused - maybe even affectionate - giggle coming from Mima.

Duis qu 4e s acu et mauris auctor scelerisque! Aenean elefend aliq 4e am leo; 4e ed u 4e tices eni 4e faucibus id. Donec pulvinar iaculi nunc t pellentesue. Donec ultrices turpis et ante egest 4e s no facilisis nu 4e c laoreet. Prasent matt 4e s viverra metus, auctor accumsan ane tincidunt vitae. Suspendisse ullamcorper elit condimentum dolor 4e enenatis v 4e l congue magna 4e 4e aretra. Cras tells enim, grvida ut iacul 4e s ed, lobortis vel massa. Integer leo metus, tincidunt sed facil 4e ss non, pretium cursus velit. Sed e 4e risus velit, et faucibus libero. Nulla nisi enim, vivrra at fermentum sit amet, sagittis non augue. Donec pellentesque rhoncus nunc rutum tincidunt. Duis sit amet fucibus dolor. Integer quis nunc at orc 4e volutpat mollis. Class aptent taciti socios 4e u ad litora torquent per conubia nosra, per inceptos himenaeos. In ultrices varius 4e ri 4e tique. Nunc ac sapien id nulla sollicitudin cogue non pharetra justo. Aliquam molestie celerisque eros non condimentu. Mauris lacinia, est vitae ultrices dictum, mi est amet.

I 4e fermentum sem vitae mass 4e condimentum luctus vel vrius massa. Nullam sed ligula m 4e , sed vulputate lectus! Pellentesque dolor nibh, moles 4e i 4e t po 4e tttor sed, ultrices nec odio. Sed dapibus consectetur st, ut posuere metus porta quis. Pllentesque vel est sit amet arcu rutrum euimod eget sed t 4e rtor. Suspendisse bibendum, arcu 4 4e c interdum convallis, tortor maris scelerisque mauris, qus autr eli 4e libero ac nulla. Praese 4e t ccumsan, felis eu volutpat facilisis, augue erat tincidunt ligula, tempor vene 4e ati 4e justo odio id dui. Sed euismod risus quis ligula luctus condimentum. Morbi augue lorem, adipiscing at facilisis rhoncus, plac 4e 4e at nec dui. Sed eu nisl elit, ut accumsan arcu. Proin fauci 4e us molestie puru 4e , pulinar v 4e lput 4 te massa ornare viverra. Sed molestie imperdit feugia? Nullam ut odio risus. In nisi eros; molestie vitae aliqum in, pretium at est? Maecenas m 4e llis sapien iaculis felis sodale elementum. Donec sagittis alquet massa. Pellentesque habitant morbi tristique senectus et netus metus.

"You're going to have to work on your balance, kid. I'd hate to see you try and pull off anything complicated in that state."

Without warning, you're flung across the room and flipped upright, causing your back to impact the wall almost painfully. You slide to the floor dazed, your legs splayed open. Mima's face fills your vision, and her smile is... genuinely fond. She brings up one hand to show you a finger surrounded with a faint green glow, and she giggles again.

You feel her hand slip down to your chest, quickly snapping each button on your jacket open, before she slips the offending garment off of you. Gliding slowly down your body, she shifts gradually from her kneeling position, eventually laying comfortably between your legs, her head propped up on one arm to be level with your crotch. Gripping your sash and skirt with her free hand, she pulls them down just enough to let your already half hard penis spring free.

"Shall we get started?" Still smiling, she wraps her fingers around your shaft, stroking the length of it slowly and softly, her long nails creating a pleasant scratching. The steady strokes arouse you enough to bring you to a full erection in no time at all. The moment you're fully erect, her hand glides to base of your shaft and rests there, the stroking ending abruptly. You almost groan in disappointment, but...

>>7633486
>look at me! I'm shitposting shitposts!
You're as bad as Jim Profit. Reported.

Mima looks at you again and leans upwards a bit. Closing her eyes and holding her hair out of her face with her free hand, she leans forwards and brushes her lips against your erection lightly. It's a faint sensation, ticklish and soft, and it causes you to shudder. Again and again, her lips trace along your sensitive manhood, and then... her lips part ever so slightly, and a puff of hot breath caresses your shaft. As the faint feeling of her lips traces up and down your length, you find it slowly enveloped in a warm and moist sensation which only ever seems to cover a fraction of your length at any time, contrasting pleasantly with the cool night air that floods in everywhere that isn't receiving her attention.

Precum begins to leak down your shaft, and Mima shifts gears. Her lips stop roving your shaft, instead she presses them softly against your tip. She peppers your member with small kisses like that, all over, before returning to your tip; instead of kissing it again however, her lips part as they meet your skin, and the head of your erection is soon enveloped by her mouth. Warm and wet everywhere... you let out a strangled cry as her tongue begins to slide up and down your urethral opening, happily lapping up your precum. Her mouth gradually slips lower, taking in more and more of your shaft, until her mouth meets her own fingers at the base.

>>7633459
>>7632370
>>7632356
>>7632347
>>7632342
http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorem_ipsum

You grunt quietly as she begins to slide her mouth up and down your length, the warm and wet inside of her mouth giving way to the cold air, and then returning. Again and again, hot and cold, hot and cold, hot... your eyes shut as the feeling washes over you, letting you focus on it entirely. Your hands tangle themselves in her silky hair of their own volition. Your hips begin to buck, making her job easier. It's so... it's so... a familiar pressure starts building up inside of you... there's no way you can take this for long... she...

"Mi--" You gasp. "Mima! I... I'm going to--"

There's suddenly a strong suction as she begins to suck at your member eagerly. That's it... that's your limit. A bolt of white hot pleasure runs through you, circumventing all thought. Shuddering, you release a load of your semen into her mouth. She doesn't stop sucking though, seemingly trying to draw out as much of your cum as she can. As you come down from your brief high your eyes flutter open, and you can see Mima, kneeling again, swallowing the last of your load with a noisy gulp. Damn, that's almost enough to get you hard again.

"You taste good."

With that simple phrase, Mima leans in and kisses you gently. When she pulls back, she's wearing a pleased smile.

"It's good that you warned me when you were going to go off, by the way. You should always remember to do that the first few times you're with a woman. Not all of them like to swallow, and you don't want to shock them into doing it if they're not ready."

Stretching for a moment, Mima offers you a nice view. With a happy sigh she falls backwards onto the sheets below, her green hair fanning out beneath her, with her arms spread wide at her sides, and her legs parted just enough to give you a full view of her slit, glistening in anticipation with her own fluids. That view is more than enough to get you raring to go again, and you're sporting an erection almost immediately.

"Let's get into the lesson proper, now."

You give that body of hers one last look over, from the full breasts to the slim waist, to the wide hips... Mima really is a prime example of the hourglass figure. You crawl forward and place yourself over her, so that your eyes meet one another's. It strikes you now that she's actually quite tall for a woman... what a strange thing to think right now. Her arms wrap loosely around your neck, embracing you, and she pulls you down so that you rest on top of her. You can feel the heat of her sex against your member, and know that you could slip in at any moment.

"Whenever you're ready... please, put it in."

There's no time like the present. You return Mima's embrace, sliding your arms down and around her waist. Pushing forward, you slide into her slowly. It's a little tight, but she's slick enough that it isn't a problem. Inch by inch, you enter her, eliciting a quiet gasp.

"That's it... that's it... nice and easy. Just like that." It's a whisper in your ear, but it's encouragement enough.

After what seems like an eternity, you've managed to enter her right up to the hilt. You stay there without moving, relishing her heat and tightness. She seems content with that, as well, her hands tangling themselves into your hair.

I don't understand people who insist on ruining threads.

>>7633521
There wasn't anything to ruin to begin with. We're talking touhoushit here. Threads like this have a negative inherent value.

>>7633539
... explain.

>>7633557

What do you expect him to explain? He's cancer. He's being cancerous. That's what cancer *does*

Anyone who isn't the cancer killing 4chan simply follows the steps delineated in >>7632037

>>7633539
>>7633557
same person,

porno is hot if you imagine it from lolirisa's perspective, but I dont like random dudes in my touhou.

>>7633649
The cancer opened this thread, fuckstick.

>>7633673

Whatever you say, cancer

>>7633673
>>7633539
Anonymous said "I must kill the cancer!"

But the intercom crackled "No Anonymous, you is the cancer."

And then Anonymous was a /b/tard.

>>7631425
He gets to find out the truth?

Aliquam tellus metu 4e , semper id ornare quis, fringilla in odio. Aliquam vel saien vel te 4e l 4e s vehicula tempus 4e u 4e itae urna! Nulla varius dio sit amet massa tempor venenatis. Etiam euismod; tellus quis tempor venenat 4e s, sem eros ornare tortor, quis blanit arcu nisl vitae felis. Aliquam cnvallis facilisis ipsum, non pretium nibh tempus a. Aenean acilisis elementum urna, ac imperdiet mi aliqum quis. Vestiul 4e m a 4e iquam laoreet luctus. In quis est ligula. Nam turpis dui, tincidunt ac feugiat d; aliquet eget neque. Vestiblum fringilla, libero ut blandt mattis, nibh libero viverra lorem, quis dapibus eros purus at risus. Praesent vel fermentum mauris. Pellentesque sed neque nisl. Aenean nec lacu ut tortor venentis sagittis. Sed ac 4e ell 4e s leo. Muris tristique velit ague! Nullam ac malesuada nulla. P 4e oin ligula tellus, egestas sit amet te 4e por id, mollis nec 4 4e olor. Curabitur feugiat tortor sit amet ligula scelerisque vel eleifend orci venenatis. Nam 4e t purus tortor. In laoreet arcu eget arcu tristique sed.

Vivamus eget dictum metus. Nunc ut sapien 4e ec ligula pul 4e inr egestas. Do 4e c ante lorem, euismod 4e ed aleuada a, malesuada nec elit. Pellente 4e que maris ligula, vulputate a 4 4e au 4e tor 4e c, condimentu ut nisi. Nullam diam nisl, tempus non feugit quis, egestas non risus? Cra eget orci nunc, vel pottior odio. Pe 4e lentesque tellus quam, consectetur eget convallis ac, tempus ac unc. Maecenas 4e d nunc non turps vehicula curus et quis quam. Suspendise sag 4e ttis magna ac lgula dignissim rutr 4e m 4e u a turpis. Proin a arcu a lacus elementum mollis. Phasellus rhoncus nisl a diam euismod posuere.

Quisqu lacus libero, rhoncus vel luctus at, consequat ac eros? Nunc 4e aucibus adipiscing leo, rutrum tristi 4 4e ue tellus ali 4e ue vel. Maecenas tincidunt dictum massa et malesada? Donec e dolor us turpis f 4e rmentum commodo et id elit. Praesent sit met quam dui. Nunc at eu 4e smod elit. Morbi justo mass 4e , eleifend at b 4e bendum id, rut 4e um eet metus? Fusce vrius c 4e ndimentum viverra. Curabitur commodo rhoncus dictum aenean suscipit.

Pellentesque blandit, vlit vel sagittis sodales, 4e isi sem temor massa, t alquet nunc liula non augue! Viv 4e mus condimentum, augu 4e si amet pellent 4 4e sque ull 4e mcorper, eros do 4e or hendreri lacus, et pellentesque purus massa a augue. Suspendise sodales nisl nec nulla 4e uscip 4e t ut frin 4e illa eros lobortis. Pellentesque et tortor sit amet enim digni 4 si feugia. Quisque eget ipsum enim! Mauris vel purus sapien. Sed lobortis ullamcorper tellus, eu susci 4e it mt 4e s lobortis ultricies. Fusce rutrum purus orci, tempus consequa 4e tellus. Praesent leo neque, alique ec 4e 4e bortis in, mattis ac odio. Sed sit amet vehicula nisl. Ma 4e ris sit amet tellu vel lig 4e a malesuad gr 4 4e vida a vi 4e ae libero. Ma 4e ris rutrum; purus vitae rhoncus porta, neque nibh consectetur rat, a hendrerit eque nisi sit amet augue. Cras tistique magna id velit porta iaculis! Sus 4 4e endisse egestas conval 4e s dolor; ut dictum eros 4e ellentesque et. Sed nec odio felis. Sed laoreet eros get nunc m 4e lesuada scelerisque! Suspendisse potenti. Curabitur arcu sed.

At this point, I think the most explainable reason for the sagefag trying to ruin Touhoufag's threads is jealousy.

He doesn't hate powergaming because this thread isn't about it. It's just trying to spite Touhoufag.

On the off chance that it's the same guy, his Power Attack 4e barbarian sucked.

Pellentesque ipe 4e diet lectus ut erat venenatis tincid 4e nt. Vestibu 4e um purus nulla, luctus at v 4e stibulum at, co 4e dimentum at massa. Fusce rhoncu 4e imperdiet nisl, eget posuere mi imperdiet et. Pellentesque a 4e cu ris 4e s, accuman eg 4e t cosequat id, acumsan et ipsum? Maurs faucibus massa semper dolor sagittis intedum. Maecenas nec nnc a neque porttitor cursus. Morbi interdum euisod nequ 4e , ac auctor nisl lobortis ac. In ullamcrper elit vel magna consequat lacin 4e a. Vvamus eu nunc risus. Integer 4e itae lorem 4e el leo incidunt bibedm.

Pellentes 4e ue malesuada imperdiet sem, ac landit purus imperdiet 4e it amet. Donec eleifend fe 4e is ac tellus cursus at luctus eque eleifend. Etiam pretium urna vitae 4e oror aliquam sed auctor arcu gravida? Suspendiss 4e 4e elit enim, pulvinar id rhoncus et, aliquet ac lorem. Phasellus porta ipsum sit ame magn 4e imprdi 4e t a alique risus pharetra. Cras cursus libero eu n 4e bh sodales tempus. Suspendisse potenti. Vestibulum ante ipsum primis in faucibus orci luctus et ultrices posuere nullam.

>>7635135
>>7634460
>>7634456
>>7634446
>Report submitted! This window will close in 5 seconds...

>>7635119
Notice how he dumped his lorem ipsum futa in a general 4e thread earlier. Methinks he's just a 4e troll in disguise.

These are some real nice ideas you've got.

I'd like to archive this thread but the porn dump is making that look iffy. Should I?

>>7628626
If divine magic is just Astral Sea magic, then why hasn't it been figured out by intrepid scholars?

>>7635888

When the mods get off their fat asses and delete the porn already, sure. Or, since the lore bit is relatively short, just screencap the first four posts, plus any other ones you deem necessary to the context

>>7633539
>I hate touhou pictures so much I will blindly try and spam any thread that has them in it
See a doctor.

>If divine magic is just Astral Sea magic, then why hasn't it been figured out by intrepid scholars?

Perhaps it *has*. Perhaps, equally, a means of making use of this magic can only normally be provided by an entity already possessing a connection to it.

Thus the servants of the absentee deities, both those aware and unaware of the state of affairs, as well as the drifting god-shards drawn to Invokers possess a means of initiating someone into that power. Our intrepid scholars would have discovered this easily enough.

"Unlike with most other known forms of magic, mortal creatures require the acceptance of a representative of the Astral Sea to assist them in forging a connection between themselves and it. This power is not guarded jealously by the gods, and even those mortals who have had a connection forged for them are in a position to do so for others. The limitations on who might acquire such a connection are still poorly understood. To be sure, as with all magic, a certain force of character or will is mandatory; what other specifics might exist require continued research, although it seems very likely that these requirements vary depending on the type and intensity of the power expressed."

or some such. It almost certainly *has* been sussed out that the consent of a specific god is not necessary, and that the powers of all divine casters share certain similarities irrespective of the divinity of worship such that it could be intuited that it is not the gods providing similar power but rather that the source of the power is not the gods themselves, merely the connection (might) be.