1. Have you played Dragon Age? Remember the Tranquil? They had no emotions, but they still had likes and dislikes. So while their actions were purely based on logic, they were each unique. Honestly, it's her character, she can do it however she likes, but this is another suggestion.

2. Berserk has less to do with the pilot's emotions and more to do with how suppressed the Eva's soul is. The hybrid's Eva can still berserk, 'cause the pilot can still go unconscious, take critical damage after running out of power, etc.

3. It's your game, you can do it how you want. I've certainly made modifications in my game.

4. If I remember correctly, the game says the magic number is like 3-5. If you only have 2 pilots, consider DMPCing the Operations Director and/or giving extra XP (by the way, since it doesn't say in the book and I asked in another thread, Black Mesa Janitor said 400XP per player per angel fight). If you have 7-8 players, I'd say throw two angels at them at once, just make sure they can both be fought at once (i.e. perhaps you don't want to have a ground angel and a space angel at the same time).

5. I know what I have planned based on the show: the Eva stays as-is, and the player makes a new pilot that went to school with the previous pilot. Later in the series, it's revealed that all the kids in that class are potential Eva pilots. Hell, in my game, one of their classmates is a previous pilot who the Eva rejected. Just don't describe every kid in the class, and the players will be free to make up their own.

>Honestly, it's her character, she can do it however she likes, but this is another suggestion.

NO I MUST OPPRESS THE PLAYERS

>If you only have 2 pilots, consider DMPCing the Operations Director

No, DM, you are the players.
And then the DM was Gendo.

Actually, one other quick note on #3, remember that the way the rules are now, Ego Barrier damage happens pretty much EVERY TURN to whoever rolls initiative after the angel. They're working on a way to spread this out, but if you want to use corruption because it's more harsh, just know that they're going to be gaining it a lot faster than in DH.

>Trying to make sense of EVA
Hahahahahaha oh wow

That's rich.

>>7572516

Operations Director = Misato != Gendo. Gendo (or someone in his position) is a required NPC. Mine for instance is less Gendo and more pic related.

>>7572538

it made perfect sense lurk moar

With regards to Angel-hybrids, remember that in line with the flaws and merits, backgrounds, etc. there are degrees of emotionlessness. Depending on which character traits you choose, your Angel Hybrid could range from worse than Rei to Kaworu, him being probably the most outgoing you can get in that background.

Kaworu was more of a sociopath. He doesn't suffer from any instinctive urge to be nice to people (Like a regular human would), but he still fundamentally understands how to do so. Sociopaths usually just do whatever gets them closer to their goals, but since the Angel Hybrids tend to not have very strongly defined wants, this leads to them being pretty much apathetic about everything unless someone orders them to not be.


Also, Adeptus Eva question:
Is there ANY way to penetrate or weaken an AT field through conventional fire power? Positron has the chance of ignoring the AT field (But leave it intact), N2 Mines deal a reduced amount of damage through it (But leave it intact). I sort of feel like there should be some incentive to attack with VTOLs and Tanks, and Turrets. Like every wound dealt with the AT field up subtracts 1 from the ATS or something, or somehow slows the angel down a bit.

Anyone noticed any mechanic for this in the book?

Also I'm planning on doing some drawfaggotry on this and if it turns out well enough that I would think it worth putting in, say, the extra pages in the next Adeptus Eva update, how could I contact BMJ?

Gendo equivalent is THE DMPC of any campaign in this, unless you are running a Kaworu equivalent, which I strongly suspect everyone will see coming a mile away. Now on the other hand, if Tabbris was a minor NPC present since the start...

Bumping because Adeptus Evangelion is goddamn amazing holy fuck nuggets

>>7572420
Thanks!

1. Okay. The player is extremely passive in any case, so that'll work. Is the angel hybrid supposed to represent a Rei style character or is it supposed to represent a playable Kaworu (sp)? Or both?

2. Huh, ok. So if an angel hybrid's player wanted to be a berserker, should I let them since it'd be the eva, not them?

4. Hmmmmmm, okay. Actually, the funny thing is that one of the players is desperate to be the Director. If anything, I'd say there needs to be some provision for letting non-pilot commanders exist in greater quantity, perhaps.

5. Huh, interesting. Okay then.

>I sort of feel like there should be some incentive to attack with VTOLs and Tanks, and Turrets.

Still trying to understand the rules, but if you just save enough vtols, tanks, and turrets, couldn't you just wait for an eva to weaken the enemy's AT-field and then unload?

>>7572578
oh you

What the hell is Adeptus Evangelion? Did someone convert DH to Evangelion when I wasn't looking? Link plz.

>>7572836
Cthulhutech

>>7572850
Cthulhutech is smalltime compared to AE.

>>7572850

Oh, well that makes more sense. Is the crunch and stuff collected anywhere?

>>7572855
http://www.rei-ayanami.net/torrent/imgboard.php?res=15133

>>7572788
@2: In theory there's nothing stopping an Angel Hybrid from being beserker class, its just that its pretty much the exact opposite of an optimised character. The circumstances that result in a Hybrid's eva going beserk are a lot rarer than for regular pilots, but there still are some.

@VTOL/Tanks: Its more that its stated in a few instances that Tanks and VTOLs are meant to delay the Angels a bit so that the 3 turns can pass and the Evas can get deployed. They are meant to be ineffectual, but theres pretty much no possible way to even mildly inconvenience the angels with them. Hell, the angel doesn't even have an incentive to attack them.

Same with conventional weapons on Evas. They have a whole bunch of weapons that can pretty much instagib an unshielded angel, yet paradoxically have literally no effect at all against an Angel with even 1 point of ATS left.

I'm not really familiar with Dark Hershey, could someone explain to what degree the Point Man is helpful and generally how he contributes?

>>7572902
I expect that if there was a way for conventional weapons alone to harm angels, they wouldn't really bother with stuffing the mentally deranged inside of zombie cyberdemons.

>>7572647

>Also I'm planning on doing some drawfaggotry on this and if it turns out well enough that I would think it worth putting in, say, the extra pages in the next Adeptus Eva update, how could I contact BMJ?

Send me an email. And if you do, you WILL get on the credits page.

What were you thinking of drawing?

"AE" is Arcana Evolved. Might want another acronym.

>>7572836
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/7286867/

and the archived "what needs work" thread from the other night,
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/7544679/

>>7572647
The whole point of Evangelion is that nothing can bring down the AT Field except Eva. Like, that's the only reason Eva exists. The defense phase of combat is basically just so you can see what attacks the angel has before going in with Evas. You can still fire with tanks and VTOLs after the Evas have neutralized.

>>7572855
Yes, it is a conversion of DH rules. The second revision of it was up in an archived thread that was around here not but a few days ago. Here anon try a sup/tg/ link

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=Evangelion

Hopefully if that link is fail then you'll know what to do.

>>7572788
If you don't have a lot of players, you probably shouldn't have one be an OpDir. There's a reason they aren't recommended. If you only have one pilot, you are kinda screwed, especially if they fail a Fear test. That pilot is going to be taking Ego damage every fight, every round, and you will end up with Shinji even if that's not what the player intended to play.

>circumstances that result in a Hybrid's eva going beserk are a lot rarer than for regular pilots, but there still are some.

I'm a bit confused then, are you just talking about the lucid eva condition being provoked less?

>>7572969
Dark Hershey understanding isn't really critical to understand this at a general level, although to play it you would probably need to have read Dark Heresy. Anyway, Pointman is:

Effectively the Tank class of the book. All of your special abilities relate to making things vastly easier for everyone else at the cost of your own ability to deal damage, or not get shot in the face. The abilities also have a reasonable heavy military vibe, far more so than even the Skirmisher class which is the actual weapon specialist class.

So yeah your abilities are pretty much either self-sacrifice, or team coordination/buff abilities, like theres one where any Eva in range can use your line of sight for the purposes of rolling ballistics: This requires you to charge in and get close to an adversary that was clearly too dangerous in melee for everyone else, but now all the snipers can hit it as if it were standing right next to them.

You can also block melee attacks FOR an ally, and other things.

>>7572034

1) The degree of emotionless in the personailty is up to the player, but the angel-hybrid asset is assumed of be fairly "Rei-ish" in inspiration.

2) Eva still Berserks as normal since that has less to do with the pilot and more the Eva itself.

3) I'll admit, the Tanging rules for AdEva as currently written are poorly used to explain what happened in the series in anything but the most abstract sense. A lot of what happened in the series gets kinda chalked up to "plot" from an AdEva perspective. Though the pre-tang Ego Barrier effects are supposed to be a form of corruption.

4) You could always just generate the Angels ass normal and then eyeball it. If it looks like something too powerful, tone it down yourself. *Insert Shrug*

5) Up to you. Either bring in a new, similarly compatible, pilot or a new Eva as well.

>>7573126
>Dark Hershey

A delicious game, that one.

>>7573126
So what is the minimum party size for a Point Man to be more helpful than a regular sort? In a doomed two man party, is it even worth it having one be a Point Man?

>>7573078
Lucid Eva condition is "Any beserk roll is automatically successful" to my understanding.

Angel hybrids, due to their disposition, are just less likely to provoke beserk rolls in the first place.

@Conventional: It was more that conventional weapons were never shown as being a practical method of disposing of an angel. It clearly IS possible to harm an angel without using exotic weapons or Evas, what I would have liked was a handy conversion rate for this, like subtract Penetration/2 from the Angels ATS score or something.

Consider that even the weakest angel has an ATS of 80, there are a ton of different manners of converting conventional damage to slight reductions in ATS that would still be totally in keeping with the effectiveness of them in the series.

Although I get your point, I guess the static phase is to try and provoke a response from the angel, get it to reveal some of its trump cards.

You know, I think that for a really alien setting, it could be interesting to deal with a small party, by permitting particularly freakish berserker evas to gestate angelspawn or to provide a means to salvage the husks of cored angels, to create bastardized evas.

Similarly, in such a setting, you might permit a way for the Director to commission, in addition to turrets and such, inorganic mecha.

Such could help to alleviate the problems of miniature parties, and reinforce the feeling of superiority that an eva pilot has in comparison to their wholly organic and wholly inorganic counterparts, by showing how much a difference that having an AT field makes.

>>7573185
In a two man party, no way hose'. In a 3 eva pilot party, it would be quirky, but plausible. But in all honesty you couldn't be guaranteed to be worth it as a Pointman until there are 3 OTHER Eva's besides your own.

However I think I see where you are coming from, character motivation-wise the Pointman is the perfect class for an Angel-Hybrid.

I was really shocked at how intrigued my player group was about the concept of switching to AE. One player even started talking about the possibility of simply bringing Adam or Lillith to a different world and letting them free there, though even if freeing Adam on a different world worked, it'd be dangerously interesting to have a planet teeming with Angelic life within the solar system.

>>7573185

I haven't yet test-run this, and defer to BMJ's judgement here, but based on reading the rules the impression I get is (these are for the lower levels, at higher levels the ability interactions get a bit harder to judge by eye):

Berserker is probably at it's best in smaller parties where it can depend on being put into the necessary stress zone to 'Zerk. The larger and more team-tactic based the parties get, the less the Berserker will be able to rely on actually getting a chance to go full 'Zerk (when it is at it's most useful, for obvious reasons).

I'd imagine that AT Tacticians and Skirmishers run the middle range, being about equally useful in either a smaller or a bigger party. Until late-game the Skirmisher gets good consistent attacks but really has limited options for breaching AT barriers, whereas the AT Tactician has the opposite problem of too little to do besides breach AT shields (later game AT antics notwithstanding).

As you guessed it a Point-man is really at his/her best when they've got somebody (preferably a whole bunch of somebodies') to take the hits for and open up attacking opportunities. Pointman and Berserker are almost unfriendly in their mechanical interactions (both want to take the Damage/Ego stress, but for wildly different reasons).

Like I said, this is just my own superficial analysis based on just reading the book for now.

>>7573336
Aha, thanks. Yeah, I was immediately thinking of a hybrid point man and a neo-spartan berserker as soon as I looked through the PDF, but right now we're thinking of a hybrid AT tactician and a neo-spartan berserker.

>>7573353

What, like on the Moon?

>whereas the AT Tactician has the opposite problem of too little to do besides breach AT shields

Just how well do the VTOLs and tanks do to harm angels once their AT fields are down?

>>7573419
I was going to suggest Mars and Venus. That is a really high quality picture by the way.

Just took a look at the Adeptus Evangelion PDF.

You could use a proof reader. Humanities/Humanity's, based off of/based on, Common Lore's/Common Lores and more.

>>7573441
It's from rebuild where they seem to want to hurt your brain by keeping just enough things the same and shoving a glass covered dildo of change up your ass at key points to keep you on your toes.

>>7573434

Not especially good, more likely to end up failing to overcome toughness than anything else, though every wound counts. But theres always a chance of Righteous Fury.

It also provides a decent volume of fire from expendable resources.

Turrets, on the other hand, can be fairly useful (especially Bolt Turrets and Positron. Maser turrets are really best at massacering smaller Angelspawn)

>>7573460
I feel chills.

>>7573453
> You could use a proof reader

And how!

I read through the whole thing twice, and caught more mistakes than you would believe, and STILL screwed unforgivably on some key charts.

Shit like that is why I'm making a second, hopefully better, version.

Still taking suggestions for additional material for that, BTW.

1. Were Lillith to be freed, would she just recreate the Black Moon, float into the sky, and tang everyone, or is there a way to make it a more interesting fight than just that?

2. In absence of a MacGuffin on the same planet, do you suppose an angel would simply try to massacre as many humans as possible?

3. How about rules for evas built to emulate the more bizarre angel body types? That'd be pretty sweet.

>>7573283

This sounds like an interesting seed for an alternative AE setting.

Personally, what I'd really like to see explored in the "Alternatives" chapter of AE is a mobile campaign where rather than expecting the Angels to come to you, NERV (or whatever fun alphabet soup Secret Society you prefer) has to go after them in a reactive manner. Picture is very much related (I once ran a militaristic Cthulutech Mech-game like this using the Super Hover-Carrier "Kirishima" of that setting as the home base of a Pacifica island campaign..)

Perhaps the humans have Lilith but haven't yet found Adam (he was scattered deep into the earth's crust after 2nd Impact, maybe) and are NOT ONLY forced to defend Earth from the Angels, but are using the pattern of Angel attacks to narrow their search. Race against the Angels to uncover the seed of humanity's demise/instrumentality. Hilarity ensues!

I imagine most all of the same Battleground rules will be used as-is (the Carrier itself will have all the usual Turrets and Support structures). There might be a two-layer element of some Evas/Angels fighting on the carrier deck while others take to the ground over whatever terrain they're on at the moment for various plot or combat reasons.

I'd like to see a possibility for it to be perhaps a bit higher-powered in character advancement too (all you'd really have to do is make the Carrier a "Hardened Target" that takes 1/2 Collateral or some such modifier). That could be an interesting modification. Maybe if BMJ approves I'll try to work-up a map schematic for a 'typical' Eva Carrier that might be good for this. Thoughts?

>>7572034
I'm playing an Angel-Hybrid as it stands and...really, there's only so far "emotionless" can go. I just take it to mean that he feels absolutely no fear when faced with alien monstrosities, but is perfectly capable of acting human. Look at Data from Star Trek--constantly people said "he's a robot, he doesn't feel", but you can't be absolutely emotionless. Just be a little quieter than normal or generally odd and it should work fine.

Yes.

Tanging feels more in line with the show, but there's nothing stopping you. Keep in mind that combat is supposed to feel very lethal.

That's generally what's assumed to happen, or a new pilot takes over the eva. Manufactured characters are easier to do things like that for, obviously, because you can just bring in another clone.

MOTHERFUCKER.

IF SOMEONE'S RUNNING THIS ONLINE AND IS TAKING PLAYERS, TELL ME.

>>7573569

Consider you idea stolen and welcome aboard.

My email is in one of the above posts. Feel free to send me whatever.

>>7573569
While I do like the "base defense" aspect, that'd still be present in a battleship, and I do kind of want the PCs to have to quest for the MacGuffins.

>>7573434
They can make some difference, each wing/squadron can contribute a little more than a third of the damage dealt by an Eva's basic assualt rifle. Per turn.

And you get 4 Tank Squads and 2 VTOLs by default, so assuming you manage to keep them all alive its the equivalent of having an extra two Eva's emptying their pallet gun clips into the angel. Its enough that your first action upon angel detection might as well be to pull them all back so that they can zerg rush the angel once the Eva's have chewed its AT field up.

>>7573645

Sure, I still only got a director player + 2 pilot players...

>>7573621
Yeah, I was so baffled by how weird a truly emotionless character would be that it took me awhile to figure out that was supposed to be Rei.

>>7573691

How and where? Also, do you have a schedule set yet?

>>7573670

Huh... maybe the carrier would actually have specific areas that could be damaged during the attack to cripple it? Communications array, landing gear, engines.. ect.

ITT: Weeaboo and fail.

>>7573712
What I did when thinking "Okay, how do I go about playing this" is imagining how he would react to different normal situations and going from there on WHY he acted the way he did and what his thought process was. From there, you can work out exactly what's wrong with him (because you can't pilot an eva without being psychologically unstable!) for him to have those responses and see it as normal.

>>7573777
ITT: A single troll in a thread of people having fun.

Bump.

Didn't look like anyone put up the MU link to this yet... Here it is for the non-torrent crowd:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=J02I3KQ5

For all of your online gaming needs and discussions #AdeptusEvangelion on Rizon. Get in here Jan.

>>7573742
We're JUST in the process of figuring out the Dark Hershey and AE rules, so everything's negotiable.

>>7573742

See

>>7573898

Or get on #suptg so I can PM you

Okay so I guess now that Black Mesa Janitor is here we can get some shit done.

Lack of Bio upgrades has been brought up already, though I think we only suggested a mere handful of supplements. Structure upgrades should also provide a bit more wealth of choice, so ideas on that.

One thing I have noticed, Black Mesa Janitor, is that the Pointman is rather lacking in abilities with some pizzaz to them. Beserkers get RIP AND TEAR, EAT THE HEARTS OF THE DEFEATED TO GAIN THEIR COURAGE, Skirmishers get massive guns, or massive numbers of guns, AT Tacticians get a whole bunch of devastating AT powers, but Pointman is a little lacklustre.

What I would suggest is a high level pointman ability to deploy an N2 mine jury rigged as a grenade to the field of battle. Probably still cost a fate point so it isn't unfair on the Operations Director, and in fact having to burn a fate point would be very role appropriate for this, this time rather than taking the literal flak they are taking the political flak for whatever happens next.

Anyway, option to either prime and throw to not much effect, or, in a more pointman fitting move, hug the angel with the N2 mine on the other side. Appropriate rolls for AT penetration as if it were a melee attack, if a success, the Eva loses the limb carrying the N2 mine, and rolls on the N2 damage table with a 40 bonus (Due to being shielded by the Angel), as if it had a bunker field up, the angel on the other hand, takes full damage from the N2 mine.

How would that sound for a Pointman appropriate attack that would actually seem cool in fluff? Just that the current endgame ones seem to be all to do with just being able to absorb massive numbers of knives into your face without anything happening. And I figure that being able to spit projectiles that are embedded in you back at the enemy is going a little too far.

>>7574020
Seems appropriate to me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiRMWlZ7KKg#t=6m59s

>>7574151
>>7574020

I'll take it into consideration. I'm sure I can find a way to make it work.

Might end up being a tactical N2 mine, though. Slightly less damage for a dramatic decrease in collateral damage.

bump to let others see it

For those not in the irc.rizon #AdeptusEvangelion chat mentioned above, here's a bump for concept sketch on the Carrier that I'm in the process of mapping.

For the sake of the concept scribble, the various Umbilical Ports/Launch Elevators/etc. are much bigger relative to the carrier then they will be in the final plan. To sustain a battle on the deck of it (and justify the thing surviving AT Cross attacks and other insanity) the Carrier would have to be at least the size of a small city. So I'm currently thinking about how to best scale the thing... I might widen it a bit and add a LOT more super-structures on the surface to give more movement options.

How does /tg/ like?

What about a modest fleet of smaller carriers, a bunch big enough to carry and deploy a single Eva and a small fleet of support ships and cargo carriers and VTOL wings?

That way, you can lose a ship or two without it being BAD END, and a replacement ship (while insanely expensive) would be easier to handwave in.

Oh, that reminds me: being in Boston, my OpDir replaced a few of the tanks with Gunboats using the same stats. Is this awesome, y/n?

Will this carrier also be able to launch these huge aerial evacarriers from the series? I mean, they are obiously too large for any present-time aircraft carrier, but since we're basically talking giant robots (lobotomized cyborgs, whatever) here...

>>7575183

Very much so, yes.

Man /tg/ this is one of the best, most productive and non-trolling discussions I've ever seen. Thanks again to Black Mesa Janitor for this!

I wish I could play the game with my friends, but they said it would feel corny playing an eva game and couldn't take it seriously (they all love the series, but I have to admit a campaign seems like it would be a short lived affair)

My curiosity was piqued with the Eva war concept honestly. I can see that being a great time really. Just imagine it battles between effectively walking gods as they try to conquer their enemies all the while flanked by machines and weapons of unique power and singular strangeness.

>>7575395

It is an interesting Idea, and that's why I will devote an entire chapter to such alternate settings and gameplay modes: because there's no reason to restrict ourselves overmuch so long as we keep the essential bits in place: brutal, giant cyborg combat preferably piloted by very broken individuals.

bumpan for awesome

I have a question, how do you roll for stats in Adeptus Evangelion? I know the tables for DH but I cannot seem to find them in the Adeptus book.

>>7578461

Fair question.

I meant to imply by the lack of stats that all (except SR) were 2d10+20 for all backgrounds.

In the next version, there WILL be charts to solidify it for the readers.

>>7578599
Thank you very much.

OP, you looking for more players? Assuming this is online of course.

>>7575188
OF COURSE.

>>7575147
That's a sensible option, but several factors make a single massive Hover-Carrier more sensible for the setting. For example, we've established that this thing would have to generate it's own AT Field in order to be useful at all as it's own battlefield (or as the second layer hovering over a normal ground battle), otherwise it would be a useless wreck after every battle. So the presumption there is that Lillith and/or an S2 organ must be at the Carrier's core (which handily justifies the extreme power requirements of it's multiple-redundant lift generators). Hence in-setting it almost justifiably make sense for it to instead be one big single massive City-Carrier that can take all of the apocalyptic damage you can throw at it, then come back for more.

If you're going to include N2 mines as usable abilities, they ought to be under some control, mostly so a part ycan't go WOW DEES IS COOL and rack up a retarded amount of collateral damage.

I think you can buy them for a decent slice of money, and the OPSO has to negotiate with the local government and UN to be able to use them. A Willpower roll shows the result of the talks, with it taking a high success to get authorisation. They get to add the collateral damage dealt thus far in the fight to their roll, because the more damage has been done the more likely the local authorities will be to not care. That also opens up an interesting angle whereby you might encourage the EVAs to allow or even cause more collateral damage, to get you authorised. And if you roll poorly but close, the GM may decide they approved your N2 bombing, but you had to make concessions, like more payment for collateral or offering political support, or even putting an observer from their government into your HQ.

To keep it in-world, you can also unilaterally use the N2 mine without succeeding. You still have to justify your actions afterwards, by passing the same WP roll, adding the pre-N2 collateral damage, but then subtracting the N2 damage. This way you'd only use it in real emergencies, like a surprise attack that quickly breaches the Geofront. If you fail the aftertest, at best you're sanctioned to hell and back, often likely dismissed from your position, or at the worst executed for war crimes. It gives the OPSO a chance to take centre stage not just in the battle but afterwards to.o

Also, maybe the OPSO can purchase discretional N2 mines that don't need approval, but has to pay for them using experience, representing them as intervention by an outside military force.

These N2 mines can be delivered in a few ways, either mine detonation, which is very safe but the Angel might not walk near it, missile delivery which is specific and fast but can be intercepted easily, and Rei-style, which is reliable, harder to intercept, and should get an AT pierce bonus, with the obvious penalty of massive EVA damage. It's perfect for the Pointman.

And, finally, using these N2 mines in direct combat needs to have some better effects than just a little damage. In the show they use them to buy time, since they usually hurt the Angels bad enough that they need to recover. I'm thinking, depending on its toughness, heavy stat penalties to physical stats given the destruction of much of its mass. This makes them solid weapons for direct use by not just hurting the Angel but making them easier to finish off. They'd still be balanced given the need for the WP test and the vast collateral.

>>7578991
One of the problems with a post-second impact world is that it's fucking impossible to create a supercarrier with their industrial base. Tokyo and the Eva's are the result of most of the world's wealth being poured in, while people starve outside of Japan just so the world isn't ended by angels.

We couldn't build a supercarrier big enough for multiple EVAs now, let alone after most of the earth's population dies. Solution: take multiple existing carriers and bolt them together like catamarans. Two or three carriers would be HUGE enough to launch the EVA cargo planes. It would also look incredibly orky, and give enough size to fight on.

>>7579110

It also makes catastrophic damage easier to avoid. Instead of just one hull to pierce you have several, and part of the fight even the damage control crew phase might be about desperately trying to disconnect a flooded hull so it doesn't sink the rest, or patching up massive leaks, or fixing a joint so half the ship doesn't drift off aimlessly. It also means the defense of the ship, given its frailty, becomes important. You might have to have the EVAs fighting underwater with no support trying to buy time forthe carrier to flee and hoping they can eventually be recovered.

>>7579110

Well, we're basically talking about a total genre shift anyway, what with the focus changed from desperate base defense to hopping into a massive supercarrier and flying AFTER the angels in order to attack them preemptively in a massive Hunt the MacGuffin scenario. Clearly, the standard "15 years after the 2nd Impact" Evangelion world-setting can't produce or sustain this sort of weapon. What ramifications that might have for the setting at large are still being tentatively explored.

How you justify the end result is something every campaign using this alternative would have to go through on their own initiative, and I am sure that Black Mesa Janitor and others will have plenty of great suggestions in the final chapter when we put this all together.

For now, I'm mostly doing it because I love the image, the fact that it pretty much demands an extreme alternate universe setting is just an interesting twist that arose along the way. :)

>>7579103
>>7579099

Currently, N2 mines can only be fielded under 2 circumstances:

The Eva's have been defeated/mostly incapacitated (last ditch effort by the military to stop it or slow it.)

The Operations Direct burns a fate point. The Collateral damage can be pretty bad, and anything in the area without an AT Field is BONED.

Things with AT Fields might survived, but the Angels often go dormant for anywhere from a few hours to several days to regenerate the damage. But having learned their lesson, that Angel is crazy hard to hurt with a second N2 mine, and while regenerating can be provoked into resuming its attack if threatened.

>>7579308

Yes, and I think that's unsatisfyingly simple. That's why I propose additions, and in the case of forcible drops, a replacement.

pic related is my gameboard. At the top, you'll see the ribbons that represent umbilical cables.

ITT /tg/ gets stuff done.... and it's so beautiful...

Bump, and I demand an archive on this!

>>7579308
I just had an image flash in my head when I read this.

There was an idea in the last thread of the AT Specialist being able to create a short-lived AT Field around a nearby area or object.

If a Pointman and an AT Specialist are in battle together, the AT Specialist could make a field around the Pointman as he uses the N2 grenade up close.
The Pointman is basically screwed, but the blast should be mostly contained, right?
I would work so hard to pull this off.

>>7579605

That reminds me of a thought I had about making Pointmen better. A higher-level ability that might make them more effective without changing their style. They can basically grapple the Angel and breach their own core to cause a catastrophic detonation while using their AT field to funnel it into the Angel. The EVA is lost automatically. The pilot can eject before detonation, but if they do so it only counts as an N2 mine. If the pilot remains to the last second the Angel suffers catastrophic damage, and the pilot is instantly killed as well. They can only use this move when they are the last EVA in the fight, when they have taken at least one level of critical damage to the body or head, or when they have lost both arms and all weapons.

It's very stylish and really suits the Pointman style, gives them a trumpcard that lets them be the one to save the day, and most importantly, gives the party a last resort for when an Angel proves to be completely beyond them.

>>7579744
That's... rather overboard. I think it is best reserved for dramatic actions not written into the rules.

>>7579817

I think the level of damage is about right, given you're sacrificing a PC, and more importantly, an EVA to do this. It's an option for when you're all out of options and you're probably about to lose the game. Making it incredibly expensive keeps it balanced, and giving it to the Pointman only and only at a high rank would make sure it doesn't get used often enough or stupidly enough to make it less than a once-every-few-campaigns move.

>>7579817
Maybe an ability to sacrifice limbs to destroy their's?
Even exchange and all that.

>>7579948
Yes, but are you going to spend XP for a move that will make your character useless (can't rebuild an Eva without a core), possibly the other Evas, and is going to cause enough Collateral to send Nerv back to a basement startup?

I also am intrigued by the Eva War concept. Its not gonna be JUST about that, but basically the core idea that even if humanity were directly imperiled, we probably wouldn't be so quick to selflessly unite, so instead of the whole world being dirt poor, there's a colossal lack of international cooperation instead.

>>7580041

I think it should either be extremely cheap, like 100XP, or outright free. The only reason it's not an inherent ability is because then all the kids would be doing it and it would lose the style that makes it actually interesting. It's meant to be an absolute last-ditch "We're about to lose" ability, which is why it's so powerful and so destructive. It actually shouldn't cause excessive collateral, given you're channeling the blast with the dying AT field unless you fagged out and ejected.

>>7579948
What's up with you and your fetish for shit that instantly, automatically destroys PCs?

>>7580114

If you eject, and it counts as an N2 mine, then your plug gets caught in the blast and you die anyway. The only winning move is not to play.

>>7580120

What fetish? This is the first time I've suggested it.

>>7580146
See: Your Berserk table.

>>7580106
The question is...
How are individual countries going to fund their own NERV..?
Unless... Alliances?
Maybe each PC and Eva are from different countries, all of whom fund a central NERV?

>>7580120

In this case, the fact that it destroys the PC is totally justified. And a move similar to it IS used in the series.

I wouldn't be opposed to giving the players the TOOLS to make this happen, but as a packaged ability it seems undesirable.

IMO, at least. YMMV.

>>7580160
I agree. Baron, you have a certain thing for making things as brutal as possible with little reason to do so. I can't say I support you in that regard.

[ignore this]

>>7580160

No, that was a table for Berserking with an S2 engine. It's different. Having a small chance to see a ten percent chance to lose at least one EVA is pretty damned reasonable when it's a side-effect of having the single most powerful upgrade. It's also toned down heavily from the show's presentation of same. It's also only instant death if the GM wants it to be, otherwise the stuff that vanished can show up somewhere else. I wouldn't include instant death on a normal Berserk table because Berserking isn't powerful enough to justify that and it doesn't fit the setting.

Why are you so terrified of death? What are you going to do next, say it's unfair that if a player gets the shit kicked out of them by an Angel that their giant robot might be incapacitated? This is a setting in which you are going to lose unless everything goes perfectly, and where the most realistic plan a team can make is plan to lose in one of the better ways, like letting SEELE trigger Third Impact, or reviving Lilith and hoping to hell and back she thinks humans are okay folks.

>>7580170
To be honest, I'm thinking about having had the Second Impact occur off world and be vastly less damaging to the Earth. In this scenario, NERV wowed the nations of the world by demonstrating a war machine that could shrug off repeated nuclear bombs, and so there are still numerous superpowers, desirous of evas even more than nuclear technology.

So while it hasn't happened yet, NERV is quite comfortable to essentially sell rights to an eva so that a superpower could send one to war at a phenomenal cost.

I'm also thinking that, as the Second Impact happened off world, the embryonic Adam was brought to Earth for study, with Adam having been originally intent on colonizing Mars.

So the angelic disaster is brought upon mankind by their own actions rather than we being completely innocent.

>>7580365
I think the point of the game is not to lose (and to have fun). Perhaps we are on a different page.

>>7580325
Never!

>>7580448

>thinks the point is not to lose

>in A DARK HERESY ADAPTATION OF EVANGELION

>>7580493
Oh right, let's all go home then. Throwing these die around sure is hopeless and uninspiring.

>>7580437

So you're talking about a pre-Angelwar EVA war where the Angels start arriving just as the conflict's coming to its denouement, and now an extremely angry but much better armed humanity has to deal with itself AND the Angels. Doing that properly would be extremely complex in terms of factionalism, and without a hundred different factions screwing each other over, it's going to be too easy. Half the point of the Angels being such a danger in the normal setting is that humanity has fuck-all resources and NERV is already using up a decent percentage of the entire world's resources. Escalation would be an absolute bitch to model with that kind of technological advancement actually being given the funds and minds to develop it fully and quickly. The EVAs would either be produced prolifically or surpassed by conventional weapons, either way making them less important.

I prefer the post-Angelwar EVA conflicts, purely because the combat is a bit more contained, and the EVAs are extremely significant to it.

>>7580520
HAVE A RAP-OFF

>A DARK HERESY ADAPTATION OF EVANGELION

It's fucking that. Don't be a pussy and fear a character's death or insanity.

Make it as glorious as your every single burnt fate point will allow.

Fuck you, fuck you fuck you.

>>7580610
HAVE A RAP-OFF

>>7580520

If you're the sort of player that needs to 'win' a role-playing game in the videogame sense, then there's nothing for you here. Roleplaying isn't about 'you beat the last bnoss and everything is win now, you are done'. Roleplaying is about beign your character and doing something interesting with it. In Roleplaying you win by playing a good character in a good story. Dying magnificently in a final, futile battle to save humanity, knowing you will lose but taking everything you can with you, is winning in roleplaying. Stabbing the monster then stabbing the bigger monster then stabbing the biggest monster and getting a sign saying you won is losing in roleplaying. Roleplaying is telling a story, no matter what kind of story it is. A good story is good roleplaying a bad story is bad roleplaying. You can't win a book or a folktale. You need to enjoy it.

>It's also toned down heavily from the show's presentation of same

Berserking, as defined in AE (ie not counting dummy plugs and the eva having a violent reaction to its ghost encountering MY OWN CLONE) was pretty much always a good thing.
The Series Evas at least had the appearance of going berserk with an S2 engine... which although very bad for Asuka was very good for the Series Evas. I don't have any clue off the top of my head what basis you'd think for that.

>Why are you so terrified of death?

Uh, I'm not, I'm the damn person running it. I think the idea of introducing ROCKS FALL LOL into a game in which death and insanity is already guaranteed unless you have a hueg group is retarded.

>This is a setting in which you are going to lose unless everything goes perfectly

Do you have a point? ROCKS FALL LOL didn't happen in the series or the movie (Except for all mankind, but they're just npcs), and it strikes me as freakish retardation that the most hatred is lumped upon a class that needs to suck before it can be awesome.

Has anyone seriously seen a situation in which the PCs became so overpowered that they actually needed ROCKS FALL to deal with it? Does the game even ever reach a point where PCs can effortlessly solo angels?

>>7580667
My friend, I am the GM.

>>7580667
It's a game, not a philosophical movement. Make yours as hard as you want, but leave your phantasmagorian amalgam at home.

>>7580667
> Roleplaying is about beign your character and doing something interesting with it.

Yes, but if I can do that AND have the character survive, I'm a double winner.

>>7580667
That's fine, but some things can be left to roleplay alone. If a character wants to take out their own core in a sacrifice, then there's no need to spend XP on it or have a section detailing exactly what happens and how, just go ahead and do it.

>>7580669

You haven't actually been paying attention since you found this bone to pick. I'd appreciate if you could be sure to get your information right, because it'd save us both a hassle.

Berserking in EVA is good. Berserking in EVA with an S2 engine is extremely bad. It destroyed the entire second branch the first time, and triggered Third Impact the second time. I've already told you this is about Berserking with an S2 engine, and I'm not going to say it a third time.

This is not ROCKS FALL YOU DIE. This is , alternately,

"You enter the unstable mine signposted with warnings of collapse, firing your heavy rocket launcher heedlessly. You trigger a collapse and rocks begin falling. You have a ten percent chance of being killed instantly by falling rocks."

and

"You trap the enemy in the unstable mine, but don't think you can win. You instead smash the last solid support brace, bringing down the ceiling. You see your foe smashed under a massive boulder before the rocks bury you. You are smothered."

Your standards for instant unavoidable death are stupid. In all seriousness, if you carry on like this is a game I'd be amazied that you don't crack a pissfit when you take lethal damage in a fight.

I agree that roleplaying is not about 'winning' in the traditional sense of the word and instead it is about telling a collective story, however, there is no need to further grimderpify the core rules of the game, it is difficult enough already.

Consider that the pilots in the show make it to the final stages without that many losses, in fact, from a in game perspective, none of them ran out of fate points to burn.

>>7580720

I don't want the XP expenditure, but I don't know how else to make it unusable early on, when it'd be really good. Maybe make it cost for every player, but free at the third tier of Pointman up.

I want this ability in because this sort of thing most players will never realise they can actually do unless they read it. An EVA fan will know, but might not think they're allowed to. Someone new to the franchise will not know at all.

Giving it specific numbers makes it a bit more sensible. Instantly and automatically killing an Angel is far too powerful, and leaving it purely to GM discretion makes it unreliable and thus practically unusable.

>>7580714

Not if dying told a better story.

>it's going to be too easy

How so? Its just one superpower funding the PCs, not the entire world, and the budget is the same (of course, this means directors and shit get a lot more dough, which counts for absolutely nothing).

>Half the point of the Angels being such a danger in the normal setting

I assumed the point is that conventional weapons can't touch them. As such, modern America with all its might has no greater chance of repelling an angel attack than does a single grade school.

>The EVAs would either be produced prolifically or surpassed by conventional weapons

Not necessarily. Remember, there were a total of what, 14 evas in the canon setting, yet all but the main 3 were totally fucking irrelevant except for a single episode at a time. Seriously, that's a LOT of evas, and it sure looks to me like they were being mass produced without negatively impacting the storyline. When you have less than 1/4th of the global eva population being relevant to the fate of the entire world in canon 99% of the time, it doesn't stretch believability at all that you could double the amount without making the PC's evas less relevant.

>>7580809

I'm viewing the show as sort of the 'ideal' campaign, where they manage to hold out until the last angel is defeated and trigger Third Impact themselves, giving one of them near-omnipotence.

>>7580897

That's the thing. You wouldn't be doubling it, you'd have literally tens of thousands of them. The modern world's infrastructure is indefinetly more capable than that of EVAworld. EVAs would no longer be special, just another kind of weapon. In any game in the EVA setting, the EVAs have to be in some way special or it's just no the same.

Now if they're restricted, they would be overshadowed by conventional weapons, because the conventional weapons would be able to do more jobs. It'd be like having one section of ultraelite supersoldiers in the Afghanistan deployment. Sure, they'd do grossly disproportionate amounts of stuff, but the regular force would do nearly everything anyway. The Angels were also slowed down by an extremely weakened military's rapid response force, so I can imagine scaling up the response would make them less superpowerful. The pre-Impact world has the resources to take the only useful features of the EVA and apply them more efficiently.

>Berserking in EVA is good. Berserking in EVA with an S2 engine is extremely bad

Well, I was talking more about canon than your fanon.

>It destroyed the entire second branch the first time,

Doubtful that this was caused by the berserk status, as the series evas had perfectly safe S2 + berserker states. That event is most likely the explicit reason why ONLY a berserker can get the S2 engine. You got nine S2 reactor equipped evas going berserk simultaneously, with no ill effect.

>and triggered Third Impact the second time.

Not even close. You do remember the whole thing about the fusion between Adam and Lillith and the tree of life and the mass sacrifice of evangelions that fueled it? The Third Impact was anything but an accident.

>you'd have literally tens of thousands of them.

Solely depending on at what point the game starts, dude. The playable evas represent the prototypes in both settings. There is a line between the sweet spot of "prototype stage" and "there is mass production of evas." Additionally, we are also talking about CLONED ZOMBIE CYBERDEMONS HAUNTED BY GOASTS, its ambiguous as to how rapidly the world could transfer its industries from the coldly rational construction of tanks to advanced soul binding and frankenstein magic.

Eventually the prototype stage would end, and you'd start seeing mass produced evas, if the characters save teh world long enough. They certainly aren't going to mass produce prototypes, that'd be silly... and working out the kinks on technology that requires imprisoning the souls of the damned and being piloted by insane nazi lolis is going to take awhile. Obviously, it would probably happen towards the end of a campaign, and one possible ending is indeed the angels being trounced and the country that can mass produce evas becoming dominant.

> imprisoning the souls of the damned and being piloted by insane nazi lolis

>>7581039

The only safe berserker EVA with an S2 engine was 01 when it ate the thing, and there only becauser it chose to sit around eating and howling. Do you really think it was perfectly safe and that eating shit was programmed into it? If it hadn't chosen to do that, it could have done any of a number of things. It sure as shit wasn't under their control, and since it had infinite power, there's not a thing they could have done to stop it short of killing it.

The Second Branch EVA could have or could have not been Berserker, it's not said. You have to assume either way. The difference is I'm not using that assumption as a premise for the argument behind that assumption.

04 also had an S2 engine, when it grew it because it was an Angel. That sure as shit wasn't safe and under control when it went Berserk, because that's what let it out.

Shinji's EVA goes Berserker after he sees 02. For some reason, this is instrumental to Third Impact, because that's what started it off. The EVA may or may not have meant it, but the Berserking S2 EVA still triggered it. Possibly even by the volition of the EVA, given that's how Yui wanted things to go down.

In fact, the only safe and under control EVAs with S2 engines are those that weren't Berserker at the time, those being 01 when Shinji was in control of himself, and the MP EVAs.

>The Angels were also slowed down by an extremely weakened military's rapid response force

Well, mainly in the sense of "wtf is going on I can't see shit through all these explosions." About all a better military would accomplish is taking out things like that stupid acid-spider before it got anywhere. Oh, and you could just add angelspawn to give conventional military the pretense of contributing.

I'm such a weeaboo for EVA

>>7581284

The research base would have the resources to sit down and figure out how much of the EVA was the bare minimum to power an AT field and then just use that, saving on using a woefully inefficient and notoriously unreliable war machine. EVAworld didn't have that, because they didn't have the funds to run a major EVA research task given they were run off their heads just keeping up with the attacks. As it was they barely managed to design upgrades for the basic system.

I also suspect that with much more money ans research infrastructure those Positron weapons could be more effectively used.

Thread's a little tl;dr, so I may have missed something, but is the updated version up yet?

>>7581284
IIRC conventional military power did something useful at the end of Eva, and that was kill NERV. They did get battered by Asuka, but that's not a hard thing to counteract. Eva units can't swim and Japan's most coast then anything.

>>7581186
Good post, makes for inspiration for a "Descent into Techno-Barbarity" setting. You have mass producable Eva units and they are unstoppable super weapons. But they still require insane child pilots and the mechs have to cloned/stitched together from parts of the tortured children's parents. So you have to harvest children; vat job kids don't have the emotional linkage necessary. So the dominant power is the one that can canaballize it's future the quickest and with the most horrific failures.
All things functional humans aren't built to cope with, so suddenly the future's a whole lot more Gendo.

>>7581376

Christ no. The update planning thread was only yesterday.

Anyway...

Current plan for making character creation a bit more interesting is thus:

First, more assets will be added. This assets will be more like "Angel hyrbid" than anything else, representing an additional character defining specialization package that benefits the character. Things like "Soldier" or "Scholar".

In addition, backgrounds will be reworked. I want more variation in them, but the currently existent ones are just so wonderfully open ended that its hard to find a new niche that needs its own background. Instead, backgrounds will be customizable.

Each of the currently existing background will have a list of 4 good things and 4 bad things. You must choose two of each. This way, not all Neospartans are the same bonus, but all Neospartans have a similar skillset overall.

So, ideas for alternate Traits for backgrounds, GO!

>>7581410
And I missed it? Fuck.

Not that I'd have much to contribute though; I like the system as it is.

>>7581409

Well, they CAN swim with the right gear. What the ycan't do is run without power indefinetly, and that cable's awfully exposed. Hit that, hold them off, then move it for the kill. Kill it in one single attack to avoid activating Berserker mode. If they equip S2 engines that's real problematic, but they may not want to because of the risks involved. If their EVA goes Berserker and they can't power it down it might do more damage than the enemy would have.

Also, attacking the base is a very valid strategy, as is ECM jamming, because without tactical support your superweapon has a thirteen year old kid at the helm. Hell, assassin squads would be everywhere, and intelligence and coutnerintelligence would be at higher levels of importance than during the Cold War.

>>7581376

Sadly, the updated version will not be out for weeks, if not months. It will take me at least a few weeks to write it all up and format stuff. And then I would prefer to playtest the new version a tiny bit before thrusting it upon you all. Quality control and all that nonsense.

I'll do my best to make it speedy, though.

How cute.

Well, I might let you touch me a little, under one condition...

>>7581481

>>7581455

BEHOLD MY POWER:

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/7544679/

enjoy

>>7581481

Are you talking to someone in particular?

Could you post a list of already existing ones, for simplicity's sake?
Aldo, I can't download the file on this machine.

>Do you really think it was perfectly safe and that eating shit was programmed into it?

Any more dangerous than a normal berserking eva? No. We already have rules for evas that go berserk and cannibalize evas and angels and threaten things around them.

>The difference is I'm not using that assumption as a premise for the argument behind that assumption.

We have zero incidents of berserker + S2 reactor causing a bad end, or causing anything other than ass kicking. We have 1 incident of berserker + S2 reactor + Adam + Lillith + Seele + Series Evas being bad, and they weren't even berserk while forming the tree of life (in terms of how AE interprets berserk).

>the Berserking S2 EVA still triggered it.

I'm quite fine with "If Adam and Lillith have fused under human control, evas with an S2 organ under the control of SEELE while berserk have a 10% chance per round while able to attempt to initiate instrumentality."

>>7581542

Incoming current backgrounds/traits...

>>7581472
Mm, fair enough. It's been a while, I didn't remember them swimming, except that they're really reliant on outside support. I'd look to punching holes in their swim fins. Underwater combat's a whole different game.

But aye, kill the pilots outside the machines is the neatest solution.
And although it makes me a stone-/k/old bastard I was cheering when the NERV fell to the outside assault. Buncha fucking amateurs. Though that's really just a genre trope: army of high spirited red shirts who fight with hope and know jack fucking all about actual combat get slaughtered by humanity's inhumanity represented by actual soldiers.
Uh, anyway...Cold War Eva, sounds good!

Any chance of someone adding in a nuclear reactor for a EVA?
Like no umbilical cord needed but if the body takes critical damage then the area takes 1d5 collateral every tround for nuclear spill and maybe something worse for someone rolling a 10 on the critical hit.

>>7581584

Neo Spartan

While still a child, one of many powerful organizations selected you as one of humanities future saviors. Since then, your life has been orchestrated to prepare you for that role. Hours of training in simulations as well as tactical training and, to a lesser degree, physical conditioning, have made you a superior pilot and fighter in virtually all forms.

Neo-Spartan Skills
Used to military life and recognizing their own importance on the battlefield, Neo Spartans begin play trained in Command, with Common Lore (War) as a Basic Skill.

Neo-Spartan traits
Trained for War
You have dedicated your life to combat, and extensively trained in the ways of war.
Gain a +3 to Weapon Skill or Ballistic Skill.

There is only War
You were denied a normal childhood, and your aggressive personality makes you few friends. Delicate social interactions are not really your thing.
-10 to Charm.

Know your Enemy
After years of simulated battles against various Angel templates, you know where to hit and make it hurt.
Gain Hatred(Angels)

Skill at Arms:
You begin play with Basic Training (General) or Pistol Training (General) or Melee Weapon Training (Primitive) or Melee Weapon Training (Progressive).

>>7581629

Prodigy

Not long ago, you had never even heard of the Evangelions. You were among the vast majority of humanity that truly believed Second Impact to be the result of a meteorite strike.
That comfortable lie has since been shattered. You have been tapped by a powerful organization to pilot a living weapon of war. Whether they knew of your talent before or only recently discovered you, you possess the ability to synchronize with your Evangelion without years of training.

Prodigy Skills
As a member of the general populace, you remained blissfully unaware of the war to come for most of your life. Less sheltered than other pilots, you may treat any two Common Lore’s of your choice as Basic Skills.

Prodigy traits

A10 Sensitive
For whatever reason, synching up with your Evangelion comes naturally to you.
Gain a +5 to Synch Ratio.

Maternal Instinct
Your Evangelion is protective of you. You may spend a fate point to take half damage to your actual character if your entry plug is ever breached. This only applies to physical damage.

Slow Learner
Weapon proficiencies cost twice as much to buy.

Unreliable
You’re not actually sure how you do what you do, and your Synch Ratio fluctuates wildly. Roll an extra D10 during synch disruption.

>All things functional humans aren't built to cope with, so suddenly the future's a whole lot more Gendo.

Fuckin sweet.

>>7581637

Manufactured

After it became obvious that Evangelions wouldn’t synchronize with just anyone, many different solutions were investigated. You are the result of one such solution. A genetically engineered human specifically designed for synchronization.

Manufactured Skills
Many manufactured display personality traits bordering on the Autistic or Sociopathic. All manufactured begin play trained in Logic and Deceit.

Manufactured Traits

Mental Conditioning
Various forms of subliminal messaging and indoctrination have been used to make you an obedient pilot. You must pass a difficult (-10) Willpower Test to disobey any direct order given to you in combat by members of the organization that created you.

Flawed
You must choose two extra drawbacks in addition to the minimum two. These drawbacks do not give you extra experience to spend.


Replaceable
You were batch grown, and there are copies of you that can be readied as your replacement with ease. When burning a fate point to survive, there is a 50% chance that the Fate Point is not burnt. However, doing this forfeits all experience gained that session as well as permanently decreasing your intelligence by 1d5 due to the imperfect quality of implanted memories.

Embraced Expendability
Manufactured aware of their situation consider themselves expendable, and do not fear death. All manufactured begin play with the Resistance (Fear) Talent.

>>7581641

Impact Survivor

Second Impact and the years of chaos that followed it was the closest thing to hell on Earth in human history. And you survived.
This makes you, by implication, older than any pilot seen in the Evangelion series. How much older is very much variable, but depending on how strict the GM sets the age requirements, this background might not be available for pilots. It would, however, work for the non-recommended class of “Operations Director”.

Impact Survivor Skills
Impact survivors learned to make do with very little. They may treat Common Lore (Second Impact) and either Tech-use or Medicae as basic skills.

Impact Survivor Traits

Prepared for the Worst
After the horrors of Second Impact, you have seen humans at their worst. It’s not paranoia if you have actually seen it happen. When spending a Fate Point to reset your Initiative roll to 10, roll a d10. On a roll of 7, 8, 9 or 0 the fate point is not spent.

Trauma
No one got through Second Impact unscathed. You begin play with 1d10 insanity points.

Resourceful
You have learned to do a lot with very little.
When spending a fate point to add 1 degree of success to a roll, you instead add 2 degrees of success instead.

Unsightly Scar
Somewhere on your body is a permanent reminder of the Second Impact. Decrease your fellowship by 3.

>>7581613

I actually was planning on including something to that effect in World War Evangelion. After all, the umbilicals would NOT fly for an offensive weapon.

>>7581706
World War Evangelion? Oh man, I can't wait to see that shit.

>>7581706
Any new weapons coming out as well?
Like a sprayer that just shoots out hot as all fuck nuclear core chunks?
Or maybe a radiation sprayer?

>>7581706
I had the thought (since I might have another branch of Nerv attack my players at some point) of Eva drop pods with ridiculously long Umbilicals, deployed either via airdrop or ICBM.

>>7581480

Making it good is more important than making it fast.

As for background traits:

Neospartan:

Loyalist - You know your place in the chain of command, and resent those who try to use their importance to bypass their rank. You gain a small bonus to willpower so long as you are directly following orders.

Seen death: Your experiences have left you less vulnerable to carnage and human suffering. You get a bonus to resisting Insanity points but only for those given by witnessing collateral damage.

Practical - You know that sometimes you have to disobey orders as given to follow orders as intended. You may disregard an Absolute Order so long as you believe it is in the best interests of the OPSO. However, you know better than to cross the line ,and may do so only once a year.

Old Boy/Girl - Your time in a military academy has seen you make a name for yourself in the right networks. You can call on your associates for favours when you need them and smooth over political troubles. Each time an Angel attack leaves collateral damage, reduce that damage by 1. (Might too good)

Any chance we might see more takes on the series evas and of conventional mecha, and/or perhaps rules for playing a full on angel for a bizarre situation that warrants it (say if Lillith became the main threat)?

>>7581711

Don't get too excited. Its just an alternate... thing.

Basically, there is going to be a final chapter in the next version called "And Beyond", which is just a collection of Alternate Campaigns that can be run with Adeptus Evangelion.

Current possible inclusions are World War Evangelion, The Hunt for Adam (Evas on a supercarrier in a more proactive role against the Angels), Neon Ultima Exterminatus (Rules for mixing AdEva with DH to various degrees) and AdEva: Nightmare Mode (Normal AdEva campaign where every session is life the Tomb of Horrors).

Each sections will have a page or two of description, with some provided alternate rules to support GMs who want to run it so they need not start from scratch (though I could hardly be expected to fully provide everything for these alternate campaigns. At some point, the ball is in their court.).

Fanatic - Your loyalties are to your command second and another first, be it a country, an organisation, a religion, or a philosophical creed. You will act in the interests of your object of fanaticism even when it is against your own or NERVs' interests.

Agent-in-place - As well as your normal duties, you are observing NERVs' activities and reporting them to a third party. Once a week you must get in contact with this party to hand over your report. If you are found out it will go badly for you.

Straight arrow - You feel compelled to report any misbehaviour by yourself, your peers, and your lesser ranks. No specific penalty, but a decent GM can make this interesting.

I've seen things... - You saw something go terribly wrong in your military past, and it still affects you. Most of the time you are fine, but if you see anything that reminds you too strongly of that time you will go temporarily catatonic.

I'm not sure if you want these rules-specific or if they're just to add character.

>>7581706
'Ey mon, so what's there of actual explanations of how an Eva's power core works, anyway? I think I remember something about the armor required power as a means of controlling the actual beast -out of mojo, and it becomes a coffin...but I could be wrong.

Umbilicals might make for an interesting logistical necessity. Before your invasion is truly underway you have to set up a basecamp and a reactor, and while you can kinda use Eva units for shallow water assaults the ugly truth is that moment, when the attacker tries to take the shore, is when Hell on Earth occurs again as the Defender has it's best chance to throw the Attacker back into the sea. Although probably too expensive of rare to station along the coast (having Umbillicals and massive underground power systems could be plausbile), having a few set for rapid deployment along rail lines or by aircraft in response to an incursion would be useful.
Even in the World War Evangelion, there's still call for men to die in the blood and mud.

...although upon further reflection the AT field is the only thing that gives the Eva any tools against actual combat aircraft. You attack in a tactical support craft like an Apache, an Osprey, a VTOL, you deserve to get punched. OTOH, they probably can't do fuck all against actual bombers and fighters and other things that shoot from a dozen miles out.

>>7581843

Not as designed, not. Presumably, if you wanted you could outfit them with proper anti-air weaponry. Hell, if they somehow manage it hit it even the pallet gun would instagib any modern aircraft.

Perhaps the XP gained from battling an angel could depend on the number of pilots on the field? So a doomed 2 man party might get more XP than an 8 man party.

>>7581882

The Pallet gun would destroy most modern tanks. An EVA has a shitload of space for missile hardpoints and AA mounts.

>>7581882
No doubt, but an aircraft's defenses are speed and distance not durability. And numbers. As was commented above, the greatest vulnerability of an Eva unit is it's small numbers. Even with thousands of them kicking around, that's still a tiny number of actual combatants controlling a very small amount of terrain.
Again, doesn't matter much, but it's a thought.

Oh, changes in defensive formations: the Eva goes to war, humanity goes underground. Conventional cities, even modern strongholds, are far too vulnerable to just being stomped to death.
So, heh, from Adeptus Eva to Paranoia XP?

>>7581910

Good idea. As it is, how much XP a session deserves is kinda left up in the air. I have to add mention in there anyway, and that would make a good sidenote.

So are there (or should there be) any rules differences concerning the treatment of a lilith derived eva (canonically unit 01) as opposed to an adam derived eva (every other eva seen in the series)?

>>7581937
Just parking one S2 equipped eva in an enemy's country and telling them to surrender or else he will do a Rick James impression in your city will probably be enoguh.

I like the backgrounds for RP purposes. There are (and should be) mechanical considerations, but I am, as I said, unable to download the file at this time.

>>7581914
All monitored and controlled by a severely traumatized adolescent. Ever heard the saying "the weakest part of the machine is the nut that holds the wheel"?
And all those weapons only start to level the playing field; dedicated SAM killers and high altitude attack craft bugger AA weapons. Hence the need for air superiority aircraft. First you control the skies, then you rain death.

>>7581957

Not at this time, no. I couldn't think of a way to do it that wouldn't end up giving the GM LESS options instead of more.

I left it like I left the dummy plugs: undefined so any GM could do with them as they wished. Although, there are plans to include dummy plugs in the next version, so maybe I am just compromising myself at this point.

>>7582006
You can make computer controlled AA guns in the modern day, you know.

All that said, my apologies for spilling /k/ into your delicious stew. RL super weapons are extremely reliant on support of the kinds both logistical and tactical.
Not an absolute that the uh..
>>CLONED ZOMBIE CYBERDEMONS HAUNTED BY GOASTS
should have to adhere to these ideas.

>>7582037
Any of them work? The Patriot Anti-Missile Battery was a gigantic fail, and that's still not addressing range or even looking at stealth aircraft.
Sort of like Evas and going underwater. Beyond simple motility issues like lines of detection and interdiction are all completely different. Not nearly as simple as "stick your gun into the ocean and shoot."

>>7581793
In a non-second impact world what would there be to stop an industrialized superpower from just slapping a jet-alone style nuclear reactor onto their eva units to provide electricity? (sanity doesn't count)

So on the topic of Evas going to war, what about psychological stuff? Could you terrify the pilots? Horrify them? Beyond trying to hammer through the AT field it'd be (potentially) far easier to break into the pilot's communications system and spam the sound of rabbits being butchered at 130 decibels. Hack the displays, turn them into rows and rows of dripping, shrieking meats.

>>7582091
Unknown.

>>7582137
Good question, I'm curious as well. I don't know nearly enough about Evas and power, what/why/how much to answer that.

>>7582006

Yeah. It's why the best method of attack is ECM, cutting off the control staff behind the weapon that really run the show. It's also why these things would almost exclusively be tasked to operate in cities, where mass attacks are unacceptable and ordnance shot from a distance can be successfully evaded. The vastly superior maneuverability of an EVA in a city that gives it cover from fire and massive attack will be tricky to kill without politicaly unacceptable collateral damage.

This is actually starting to sound very similar to another setting and premise I worked on a while ago.

>>7582052

No such thing as bad input. Thanks for having you.

>>7582137

The power capacity of that pack. Will it be effective enough?

>>7582144

It would be effective, but we can assume that the EVA is hardened against ECM. That's the cruciality of the intelligence and counterintelligence game; that if you can find the pilots you can hit them without six hundred tons of war machine getting in the way.

YOU. ARE. DOING. IT. WRONG.

>>7582200
Butthurt detected.

>>7582164
Right, good point. An important difference marking an Eva is it's relative manuverability. Whatever else, it's _fast_ and agile enough to kill in melee.

>>7582166
Not a problem, this is the sort of thing I'm interested in mulling over.
What did you think of the D-Day WWEva scenario? Even if umbillicals are an unsurmountable obstacle, that doesn't mean you can't bring them to a battle; only that it's going to mean a hell of a lot more preparation and conventional military coordination.
Or maybe there's a tenative false peace while everyone races to be the first to create a power supply solution that'll let them be first to let the dogs of war off the leash.

>>7582200

Can you be more specific? I am always looking for criticism to better my projects.

>>7582249
Why would you engage in eva vs eva combat in a serious war? It wouldn't really be like WW 2 or anything, where both sides were intent on murdering as many civilians as possible, because nukes and shit work for that. It'd probably have to be a relatively civilized world which enacts ritualized eva vs eva dick waving contests.

Another option for the heavy ordinance backpack could be a much bigger battery or even a small generator (better than the one for the fin slot).

>>7582195
You familiar with Hades Project Zeorymer? Good old school mecha stuff, a little like Eva before Eva. In that the BBEG seeds his gene-job pilots, who mecha are coded only to function in the presence of the right DNA, with crippling character flaws in anticipation of their future self-destruction.

>>7582200
You just saged a thread related to improving what is already probably the most complete /tg/ homebrew I can recall.

Unrelated: I know there's plenty of reasoning given in the PDF, but I have to say that "Absolute Terror Field" is more aesthetically pleasing to me than "Absolute Territory Field" (yes yes "then call it that in your game" I know... just saying)

I'd like to see more support for nerv facilities not designed around the geofront with regards to the base of operations section, more alternative third impacts (I can't think of one off the top of my head right at this moment, it's already a good section), and maybe a write-up of Gehirn (nerv's predecessor organization) in the organizations section... an interesting alternative campaign idea might be a non-pilot campaign either centering on the Katsuragi expedition or on Gehirn at the beginning of project-eva (it'd be a less action more intrigue based campaign in this case obviously)

>>7580437
for some reason I'm now picturing a world where the actual angels are a shadowy mysterious threat while the main concerns of the PC's would be not only fighting the Eva's of other nations but also the various Eva's and other Lilith/Adam based weapons(because lets face it Eva's cant be the only use for the technology) of multiple rouge states and terrorist cells who are being manipulated by the Angels to lead to the destruction of mankind

to be continued

>>7582319
How about a third impact in which Adam is released on Mars and Lillith is released on Venus or something?

>>7582283
I think it's because a central theme to NGE is madness.
Without the Angels the Eva units become the key to domination over the wasted Earth. The idea that there's anything really left worth fighting over, or that the first casualty of the WWEva would be the planet itself is unimportant. Humanity in NGE is no better then the Angels and in the end only Instrumentality transcends the cycles of destruction and resurrection.
All very Bhuddist shit with a heavy side of suffering and angst.
In a sane world what you suggest would be a probable outcome. By the same token, in a sane world Gendo Ikari would've been shot in the face for being a total monster beyond the control of anyone who secretly desires the destruction of all.

Normally I'm not the sort to suggest a brainstorming thread gets archived, but this one is worth it.

>>7582319
Saging does nothing (ok it flags the Sage post as meaning to not to bump the topic), ignore it.
It's got less consequence then trying to turn back a tornado with a lit fart.

>>7582369
>who secretly desires the destruction of all
Gendo didn't desire the destruction of all, he only wanted to see his wife again. If anything had 3rd impact gone his way there's a decent chance it would have been less destructive to humanity as we know it than Seele's version or what actually happened.

>>7582334
That sort of thing is why End of Evangelion is definitely my favorite in the series, because of the human vs human conflict.

>>7582412
I know it does nothing, I felt like commenting on it but I tried to do it in an otherwise constructive post. I just don't need to see the need for a one line complaint post in a thread that is both on topic for the board and productive.

someone mentioned an idea in the last thread for the First Ancestral Race coming to Earth to reset it, since the two seeds aren't supposed to come into contact with each other.

Depending on how you want to treat Adam-based life, you could end up with unholy alliance from nessecesity of Evas and Angels versus the minions of the FAR to a three way war. Of if you want to go Nanoha with a good dose of mindrape mixed in, somehow the Black Moon and White Moon find a way to coexist in a way the FAR never through possible.

>>7582283
Oh, and the other thing being Despair.
Not to get too much into the current American political situation, but there's a strong component of the religious far right who get down and pray every day for Armegeddon. Because the world's out of balance spiritually, because we're too stained by our sins, because Virtue is tainted and false, and so on and so on.
It's pretty BAAAWWWW, but it's the tone of the times.

Eva's the same way. It's not Beyond Grimfark, but more kind of to the side. Instead of endless resistance against the tides of a hostile universe in Evangelion all Sin is ultimately self-embodied and can only be transcended to by complete abandon of all mortal concerns.
Again, highly Bhuddist and such.

>>7582508

Given that the FAR built Adam and Lilith, I can't think of any conflict with the Far as anything approaching war, or even really extermination.

They built machines that could reality warp an entire planet just to throw them into space. And that was Billions of years ago.

God only knows what they could do now if they were actually hostile.

>>7582369
Then that's reasonable. Conventional warfare (if evas count as such) in an era where conventional warfare is obsolete done to ultimately show mankind is feverishly insane is actually a good idea. You can have shit like the PCs realizing this and the director getting slapped down hard for questioning his orders.

>>7582436
Y'know, I was always confused as to why if that was the truth he didn't just eat a bullet and move on? The primary side effect of his desire to see Yui again was apparently total human annihilation.
And most of all, I wouldn't want Shinji choosing my route to...Nirvana/oneness/whatever. Yeah, life sucks and you're lonely. It'll pass, try for some perspective and patience and one day you'll be silencing Asuka with a look instead of strangling her.

>>7582587
maybe not the FAR themselves, but automatons (designed like the Lance of Longinus) they made to deal with this sort of thing

another thing to consider if anyone ever does to the Evangelion World War, what if the Jet Alone 2 project was successful in making a robot that could penetrate an AT Field?

>>7582528
I don't necessarily agree that the only solution would be to institute Human Instrumentality. in my opinion, I don't think that the end in EoE was that by cowering as Asuka died and meekly submitting to being crucified, that Shinji was 100% doing the unambiguously right thing.

>>7582666

How about integrated positron weaponry, SATAN?

>>7582528
Dude, Christians have been saying the end of the world is just around the corner ever since they found out that Jesus' body wasn't in his tomb like it was supposed to be. Praying for the Apocalypse is par for the course.

>>7582707
Shinji should have been charging in and tearing the production line evas off of her. Berserking with every ounce of fighting spirit inside him.

>>7582726
then Evangelion wouldnt have been an aversion of the super robot genre at the time

>>7582715
Eh, probably. I don't remember hearing so much about that pre-late 90's, and of course this crap with 2012 being the latest version.
There was a similiar incident in the year 1000 ME when tens of thousands of pilgrims crowded into Vactican Square to see the End Times.
Presumably they were terribly let down.

The world doesn't exist to end on some celestial whim...like I could actually be sure of that, or somehow know. Such Hubris, ha ha. =]

Anyway, we're getting off topic and I'm running out of useful things to say.

>>7582744
This is sadly true, though RE-TAKE does its part to alleviate this somewhat.

>>7582616

technically it wasn't annihilation, it was all humankind being compressed into a new singular entity

>>7582334
in other words this world would ironically be on the surface resembling somewhat more normal Super robot series if only since this world's Eva's are more publicly known, the various governments and militaries disguise these mass-produced Eva's to make them appear to look less like gigantic malformed abominations and instead the kind of menacing war machine the mindless public can get behind and not protest their tax-dollars being used on them though behind the scenes these Eva's are just as monstrous as the canon ones and in fact even more so due to each country trying different ways to make their Eva's the most powerful whether by manipulating the genetics to create a dealier monster or adding a dangerous new power source or even giving them more destructive weaponry and thus causing a never-ending arms-race that will lead to the doom of Humanity one way or another

>>7582634
>>7582587

while that would be good for a Beyond Evangelion supplement or something, it doesn't fit with everything right now

>>7582715

Pope: "Judgment day coming soon, ye faithful!"

Christians: "When?"


Pope: "NOW"

>>7582787
Whoa there! Take a breath champ, don't keel over.

But yes, sort of. Problems are what a gigantic mess the world is, the pervasive Despair infecting everyone, and that with so few actual resources the lengths required to do all that would constantly risk exposure.
But if the cat got out of the bag, would it matter? This isn't a world running on public opinion polls.

>>7582770
True, I'll grant you that.

Query: the FAR?
Wut?
The first proto-sapients who created Adam and Lilith?

>>7582715
It isn't even an inherently Christian thing, the concept of praying for the death of humanity. The 2012 thing is pagan and not xian and people are still masturbating furiously to the concept of our own extinction regardless of religion.

I think a lot of humans would seek to help the angels or beg to be destroyed by them, both for the non-religious desire for oblivion and for people thinking the angels are actually religious beings.

What I think is particularly weird is that when Shinji says "Angels are servants of God, right? Why are we fighting them?" instead of saying its just a code or disputing that the appearances are coincidental, Asuka just goes "You're either with us, or you're with the ter'rists" and Rei stares blankly.

>>7582862
First Ancestral Race

they made the White Moon (containing Adam) and the Black Moon (containing Lilith), and presumbly others like them for the purpose of seeding life throughout space. They also made the Lance of Longinus which serves as a control rod. There should be two true lances on Earth, but there the other one is a wild guess.

>>7582862

A post-scarcity near-post-physical race who developed naturally, started exploring the galaxy, found that they were the only form of life they ever found, and got lonely. They built Adam- and Lilith- type Moons as world-seeding devices, sendign these entities into deep space to crash onto worlds, seed a suitable biosphere, and then create a single form of appropriate self-aware life. Presumably theyactivated this plan at the very least hundreds of millions of years prior to the events of First Impact, and are extremely likely post-physical and long past the point where they meaningfully interact with the physical universe.

>>7582917
Wasn't Lilith's supposed to have been destroyed in the initial impact of the black moon with earth?

>>7582862

Pretty much got it in one: FAR = "First Ancestral Race"

That sounds weird to me. I think "Progenitors" rolls off the tongue BETTER, but FAR is what the source material calls it.

Not that you would know about them. They are never once mentioned in the series.

I (obviously) liked Evangelion, but GOD DAMNIT they make you go one an easter egg hunt to get some goddamn answers.

>>7582946
>>7582917
Of note is that Angel and Human moons were never intended to exist on the same planet.

What happened on earth was an "Ooops... This isn't good." scenario.

>>7582913
True, the Hindu believe something similar about the current karmic state of Man.
While pagan, it is being co-opted...sort of like ecclesiarchal lube for the doubtless sore wang of the lust for apocalypse. Praying for the end of everything's not necessarily a human drive however. Not every damn religion or philosophy wants an end as badly. All have a doomsday scenario, but none are so desperate for Apocalypse NOW.

Hmm, good point. My theory is that Asuka is just a gigantic cunt; she's about what she gets to do and not at all interested in any relative background information or even any kind of truth about the situation.
Asuka's basically the LOL PVP of Eva in the beginning.

>>7582917
Ah, ok. Check, thanks. Weird.

>>7582842
sorry I have some sucky grammar skills :P

>>7582987
It's not as if the setting takes front seat over the existentialist themes and THIS IS HOW HIDEKI ANNO FELT DURING HIS MAJOR DEPRESSIVE EPISODE in eva anyway.

>>7582946
well technically all the life on the Earth is Lilith-based life with the exception of the Angels

The Earth is only about a 4.54 billion years old. The Black Moon landed when it was 4 billion years old, and shut down Adam and killed all Adam-based life, allowing Lilith to take over as the dominant life-type.

The Angels didn't appear until mankind triggered the second impact, so they could be weaponized creations made directly by Adam to fight back against Lilith. They probably show a great deal of the traits of Adam-based life, only pushed to the extreme and would not be the norm had the Black Moon never shown up Adam-based life was allowed to devlop normally.

>>7582987
Yeah, understood. It's a cultural thang; lots of my favorite video game and anime serials have drama/radio disks, press events, short fictions, and layers and layers of canon completely inaccessable from inside the actual material.
Part of the greater presentation that doesn't really make it stateside.

>>7583070
with that it makes sense for Adam to explode himself when the Katsuragi Expedition accidentaliy reactivated him in order to release a huge amount of soul-energy to create the angels so he can once reassert his claim on Earth

>Praying for the end of everything's not necessarily a human drive however. Not every damn religion or philosophy wants an end as badly.

That's my point, it has nothing to do with your religious beliefs and everything to do with "Are we dead yet?" "No" "ARe we dead yet?" "NO" Are we dead yet?" BUTT FUCK"

>>7583019
which I suggest that having the fleet of FAR "maintenance automatons" show up to correct the event would be interesting

>>7583181
Who's to say they thought they needed a layer of safeguard beyond the Spear of Longinus that every seed of life carried?

>>7583070
Well, that's why I say angelspawn make sense.

>>7583223
it's theory, and way out there at that, and one designed for those who want to play with an unholy alliance between Evangelions and Angels and possibly introduce someway of coexisting

adding an outside threat is the way to do that

>>7583226
agreed

>>7583266
An even easier way of coexisting would just give the angels their own planet.

>>7582715
You know, I wonder how Evangelion would develop if the Christian themes were switched around. Angels get renamed Demons, Adam becomes Satan, Second Impact becomes the Fall, Evas powered with the souls of long-dead saints, adorned with crosses and piloted by religious zealots go nuts upon seeing the cross-shaped energy blasts ("They DARE mock us?! " )

>>7582726
Fighting Spirit, you say?

>>7583303
Funny you should say that, I was just thinking about how a scenario in which Lillith was the main active one, her war-creations equivalent to Angels would be termed Demons, just for symmetry.

>>7583338
Could be interested if Lillith's "demons" inflicted corruption instead of ego damage, or something.

>>7583302
then we have to make up an entire slew of Adam-based life to populate Mars of Venus or something

>>7583303
Sounds...far more conventional. Suddenly the pilots are capable, prepared and eager. The enemy is cast in a light utterly defying any kind of comparison to the self. And the stakes of victory aren't just survival, they're total conquest of Original Evil.
Much more literally Eva in 40K, really.

>>7583160
Uh. it's pronounced Bee-yute Fick, but that's not important.
And it is tied to religious beliefs. No other realm maintains that "total holy death" = "ultimately survival" with a straight face.
Only religion is genuinely crazy, everything else has to be grounded in some kind of tangible element.

>>7583393
Though, given Lilith is the source of Earth-based life, wouldn't her war machines be more earthly?

The only thing common to Earth-based life is DNA, reproductive ability, and cellular organization. Something tells me Lilith's weapons would be swarms of quickly reproducing lesser creatures. Like you know, humans, except perhaps with AT fields and a lot of natural weapons.

>>7583393
well Lilith's domain is more of the physical side of things compared to Adam's spiritual life stuff

>>7583435
Lilith could probably pull something a lot more impressive than that

and Adam-based life not having reproductive capability is just plain faulty, that practicaly makes them less alive then viruses

if we are going by the "Angels as Adam's Weapons" theory in this instance, then you should think of them as the godlike versions of Adam-Based Life

>>7583490
>>7583435
think Apostles from from Berserk if Lilith were to have made something like the Angels

>>7583490
Hmm, what about something like Plato's Cave Allegory and Ideas? Lilith would spawn an Idea of say, fish, and it'd be a gigantic beast like that sea angel, displaying features of virtually all fish (Well, that's not really what Plato meant, but that's beside the point. ). And that's before she starts throwing out human concepts, like an Idea of mercy.

Remember that to Lilith is the tree of knowledge.

Honestly, 40k Orks or equivalent would actually be a totally plausible army for Lilith to create.

>>7583581
I like to think of the distinction between Lilith's Seed of Knowledge and Adam's Seed of Life being Lilith more oriented in physical phenomenon and Adam being more oriented in soul based phenomenon

thread archived

>>7583672
It's always seemed to pan out (for me personally) as humanity's SCIENCE vs the angels' superior physical and spiritual prowess.

>>7583724
Finally!

>>7583792
>>7583672

Adam-based life has the tree of life, and is like a god. They are immortal, capable of changing to survive any condition given time, and have indefinite power. They are almost perfect. What they lack, though is knowledge. They are not aware. They cannot comprehend. They simply act on the fundamental instinct that drives them. They do not reproduce because they have no need, being immortal, and no desire, being incapable of comprehending the notion.

Man is weak, frail, and inevitably mortal. When we struggle, we die. Where we fight, we lose. We know death and we know fear, and thus, we breed, trying to spare our species the fate to which we cannot be resigned, and thus dooming ever new generations to the same. And yet, knowledge is our strength. Where we are weak, we can make ourselves strong. We cannot fight, but we can create what can. We cannot win, but we create our own victory. What pressures us we overcome, the fear of death driving us harder than any instinct could. We are dying, and thus, we thrive.

That is why Kaworu regretted the necessity of ending mankind. Though it would be a mercy to end us and spare us an eternity of death, it would be the end of an infinity of creation. Should Adam win, his creations, fine though they are, will be indefinite. Lilith's creations are themselves creators, and thus her works are infinite.

>>7584117
>That is why Kaworu regretted the necessity of ending mankind.

Didn't he recant that, asking Shinji to kill him in the end?

Man, I need to rewatch Eva.

>>7584117
Well put, I like it.

>>7584209

He doesn't ask Shinji to kill him until it is obvious he failed. He didn't reach Adam. He has no idea where Adam is. Rei has neutralised his AT-Field shenanigans. He can't control 01 because both Shinji and 01 are resisting him. He also doesn't tell Shinji specifically to kill him, he tells Shinji that if he wants humanity to live Shinji HAS to kill him, which means that he would still end them could he do it. He may be the product of Adam's last contingency, a plan to copy the traits of the species that must have defeated his other weapons, but he is still of Adam and cannot concieve of not following his instinct-born objective.

>>7584303
Hmm, well said.
Makes sense of quite a bit that does.

>>7584303
Tabbris, the Biblical angel, is the angel of choice. I think the whole point of the scene was that Kowaru, as the last of his species, chose to die instead of dooming humanity. Not because he could not achieve his objective.
Him coming into contact with Lilith would have initiated the Third Impact, I think.