I know I do. This is a great idea.

Are you giving orcs a charisma bonus? or at least taking away the penalty?
If not, pretty much anything would make a better sorc.

Bump for more feedback.

I think Runic magic would fit dwarves better. Dwarves that cast a spell on you by CARVING THE FUCKING SPELL INTO YOUR FOREHEAD

Seconding Dwarven Rune Magic. Could use runestaves of a sort for on-the-go casting, to prepare their spells for the day they carve the runes on the staff.

>>7362246
I thought about that, but I couldn't find a runic magic class I liked. Any suggestions?
>>7362156
Yeah, I'm using a houseruled Orc variant with a STR bonus and a WIS penalty.

You could homebrew it pretty easy I think. you could keep the elemental focus and just have a select number of runes per day, like a sorcerer. maybe something akin to a geometer.

Woo!
I'm a fan of this shit.
Generic 'magic' for everyone is kind of...less fun.

>>7362246
>>7362479
Listen to these people. Dwarven rune magic is the shit. You can draw them in the air, engrave them in the stone, or carve them into flesh, depending on the spell.
Hell, the same rune might have different effects depending on where you carved it.
Maybe try looking at the Illumians from Races of Destiny? Shit, yes, but I'm referring to the idea of only knowing a limited number of runes. Each additional rune you learn can be combined with any of the others for different effects.

>>7362500
Alright, so more a flavor thing? That's doable. I was planning on tweaking the Wu Jen class to fit the situation anyway.

Not a bad idea, OP. Personally, though, I'd replace the halfling "hobbit stand-in" or "fantasy gypsies" culture with one that makes sense for people who've mastered the language of creation. My halflings are ascetics who live in a society like Equilibrium's and strive to categorise everything in the world, but that's just how I do it.

Where's the pic from, OP? That's a badass military dwarf caster.

>>7362529
Ascetic halfling doesn't sound...right to me.
If they've mastered the language of creation, they should be living in extreme decadence, but if they're nomadic, everything has to be portable.
Gypsies and circuses seem like they would be prevalent for such a culture, with a heavy emphasis on wordplay, riddles, and the like.

>>7362537
No idea. I got it from a pic dump.

>>7362484

I just pulled the bonus feats and familiar from the Wizard, and distributed the class features of the Runesmith PrC (Races of Stone) over 20 levels.

it's d20 modern also this reminds me of a magic system I was working for a writefaggotry. The runes were strung together along the same lines as a mathematical formula. Two wizards could in effect try to cancel the other by writing a rune into the enemies lines. A duel literally would become something along the lines of life or death tic-tac-toe.

Not a bad idea methinks. seems about right for a runecaster

Why wold entire races have the same cultural magic?

>>7362688
Same reason entire countries have the same cultural artistic sense/language/morality in our world. Only more so, because there's actual biological differences.

most of the races were created by a specific deity. It makes sense that that deity may have given them a unique sort of spellcasting

>>7362688
They wouldn't in fact(once more based off the writefggotry that died) I had each style of casting be part of a cultural heritage and effectively like a different language. Rune magic was one sort while something like Voodoo was a whole new beast.

im puctureing a hammerhead with runes on it, so it stamps them into the victim when it hits. fuck yeah gravity spell stamped in your chest!

>Goblinoids - Psionics. With the Blues out there, it's a natural fit.
There's a million races that do psionics. Most of them are aberrations, though.

I vote against give dwarves rune magic. It's been fucking done to death.

With good reason. Going back to Norse mythology Dwarves have always had Runes at their disposal

>>7362724

It is a pretty cool concept, but I think you're right, it has been done a lot.

I think the elemental magic is better for the dwarves.

I think the idea was to combine the two and have elemental runecasters

>>7362759
Why not combine them? There are, say, four "alphabets" of runes, each tied to a certain classical element.
Each runecaster dwarf can only draw/activate runes of his chosen element. Only by working together, by the power of the clan united, can multiple elements be channeled into the same spell.

>>7362724
true. make humans the magic void race. maybe lean in some HUMANITY FUCK YER! GURREN LAGAN kinda psyonics. Like things just kinda work for people who are really strong willed. Its a really limited idea, I know. so just humans cant cast, but they 'science' it(use the runes to make magic flow, instead of willing it) fuck yeah fireball gun. nie thing about runes is, you dont need a staff or a focus to use them.

>Like things just kinda work
>really strong willed
Sounds familiar. Oh yeah.
WAAAAAAAAAAGH

>>7362724
They haven't got runes. If anything though, the humans would. Maybe the Halflings and Elves too.

Dorfs would be like Earth or Firebenders from Avatar: Brute force shitkicker magic with the potential for extremely complex, subtle work and utility that nobody would expect.

>>7362779
Humans are continuously evolving, whereas the other races have reached their end...

SPIRAL POWER FUCK YEAR!

>>7362775

hhmmm, that's a good call.

magic runes for dwarves would be different from ordinary writing, and would be embedded into things. To go with the elemental theme, they would be engraved into different things for different manipulations. Air and weather magic would be "written into the sky" with wands, stone magic in rock, forest in trees, water runes would be written on stones then dropped in the body of water, and fire magic carved into their skin (hot-blooded, fire, eh.)

>>7362797
Actually that would be pretty kickass.

The idea, while a good one, needs to be explained differently. Magic, in a setting within which it is known to work, would be more akin to technology than culture regarding spread patters. So either give each race an affinity for a single type of magic, or make most races either isolationists or xenophobes. You could make different races have different explanations of how magic works, and superficailly differing effects. For example, to achieve the same effect, a Halfling would call out a True Name and a human pronouce a lenghty series of gibberish accompanied by dancing. It's the same spell, explained differently by differing cultures.

Damn it /tg/ I'm thinking about that story now...I might start a spur thread, thanks guys.

I'm doing something similar in my homebrew setting/system-tweak. While all magics can be found scattered throughout all regions and nations, many regions consider one form or another to be 'proper' magic and all others to be 'witchcraft'. Practitioners of incarnum, pact magic, invocations, auras, truenaming, shadowcasting, blood magic (reviled almost universally), necromancy (likewise), psionics and chi powers can be found nearly everywhere, but are likely to be hunted except in certain areas. My setting/system doesn't include vancian casting, so there are no druids, clerics, wizards, or sorcerors.

Not to sound like a WoWfag, but Orcish shamanism, particularly focused around dark spirits and demons, sounds like a pretty reasonable fit for this system.

Do D&D shamans need a charisma bonus?

What about something like Earthsea where the further you are from where you learned spells, the less effective it is? Like, Rune Magic is stronger in certain areas, and Pact magic weaker the further you are from what you made the contract with?

>>7362895
You're suggesting something along the lines of Machine Spirit doctrine, then.
"Of course it won't work if you just push the on button, you must first recite the proper litanies!"
"Of course it won't work if you just say a single word, you must also draw a pentagram out of bat guano and perform the appropriate hand gestures!"

I really like the idea of halflings using name magic, since a large part of their Tolkien characterization was a fondness for riddles and poetry and such things.

>>7363009
deals well with
>>7362895

I still prefer the idea that dwarves are enchanters. It's the logical extension of their reputation as smiths. Once you've just made the heaviest sword in the world, slap a few runes on that bitch and make it appear light to its bearer. Bingo. You now have a sword with a thousand times the killing power and a thousandth of the effort to swing.

>>7363125
Enchanting metal and weapons would be an example of Earth runes, which would probably be the most common type of caster among dwarves.

>>7363047
Sort of. Continuing this metaphor, Magic would be legitimate engineering, and magic of different races would correspond to different Mechanicus doctrines. CapitalMagic would be reserved for demigods or dieties. Maybe a murderously powerful lich or two.

>>7363268
Not OP, but I like this idea. It creates a world where the different cultures/races tend to be xenophobic, the odd multicultural dwelling like a large city would probably be nonmagical (or like New York, where you've got all different religions but nobody gives a shit as long as you keep your practice behind closed doors.)

Humans should have Techno-magic, where magic is so studied you can get it down to an exact science. Add a bit of guano, drop some spider legs, say abracadabra and you got a fireball. 100% the time, even if you don't even know more than that.

>>7363090
Not really, it's a sound idea on it's own, but in this take on magic is more about culture and perceptions than actual 'fact'.
>>7363301
Well... fantasy is typically based on middle ages, and here, differences between the races are much more pronounced, in both body and mind than between different nations/tribes of humans. So yes, I'd say the'd be either outright xenophobic or at least cautious of different folk.

>>7363373
but if you screw it up even slightly, it doesn't work. The centipede leg was one millimeter short and the recipe calls for one whole leg. Something like that. Plenty of room for inferior materials and just plain human error, like there is in modern science. Wrong capacity light bulb, wrong model of transistor, wrong size battery. Little things that can ruin an effort.

rolled 1, 3, 6, 5 = 15

>>7363373
how bout make humans as the least of the races, the young wanderers and just generally trying to get about with their "science" magic.
in this case humans would be minority but possible to learn most magic, but you end up with alot of studying before you can cast something, and no finesse as it were. kind of like, you research fireball, you learn fireball and just that, not firewall or somesuch - youll have to research that some other time

You know, I like the elves idea, it gives good potential for roleplaying depending on what you is bind yourself to.

Bind yourself to a Starspawn.

>>7363456
I'd rather have this science-magic work like in Talislanta: a mage would learn thousands of different spells before even being termed adept, and most of them would sound almost exactly the same, only differing in power or volume of effect. For example : yadda yadda yadda would be fireball, and yadda yadda yaddAH would be 'ignite'.

Sanctimomy: This is magic derived from the worship of the God of the setting. This is heavily ritualised, requiring long incantations by specially ordained ministers, it is powerful, but has somewhat limited applications, like an exorcism or mass with real effect. This is practiced mainly by men and women, but halflings and elves also use it.

Tricks and Treats: This is the low powered hedge or kitchen magic, practiced by commoners all over the world. It is based on the idea that superstitions and folk remedies are real, and can have real effects if followed correctly. Men practice this often, and halflings are the masters of it.

>Truenamers

Make sure you find a way to fix that class before letting people do that.

This is fucking win. Personally, I think voodoo should be worked in there somehow...maybe the lizardfolk or goblins?

>>7363901
Perhaps we should look for a less commonly appearing race. We already got a lot of the usual, we need something... alien in comparison, but not actual aliens that would be dumb.

>>7363511
I approve.

>>7363901
>>7363934
Voodoolithids?

>>7363523
GitP's got a fixed version floating aorund.

>>7364003
Fuck yes.

>>7364003

Maybe. Or...no, no beholders. What other races could we use? I get the feeling Fey would all be horrible, nightmareish creatures from beyond the void, so that's out. No, wait: FEY ARE WHAT THE ELVES BIND WITH. Making them EVEN MORE creepy. I bet gnomes are all warlocks, though.

>>7364003
Yeah, sounds good. My other choice was Kuo-Toa.

>>7364174

Dang, realized gnomes are already up there. What else is there? Oooh, what would centaurs be?

>>7364241
Centaurs are a rare example of races not fearing/hating each other. As undisputed masters of Sanctimomy (>>7363511), specifically of the healing and divining varieties, they are often sought out as teachers, sages, healers, and advisers.

Look, let's just pick Kuo-Toa for 'The-Voodoo-who-do-what-you-don't-dare-do-people'. I mean look at them, they never blink, creepy frog bastards. Also, they hate Drow.

>>7364185
It would make sense though personally I like the idea of Kobold Voodun

>>7364358
Well, kobolds have the whole dragon bloodline thing going for them. Probably sorcerors, with a heavy focus on evocation.

>>7364344

I figured something like that. Nomadic and peaceful, but with the ability to pretty much completely fuck your shit up if you piss them off. And if santimony is like D&D divine magic, it doesn't need material components.

>>7364358
Perhaps both could have Voodoo and they threat each other as scum who 'Don't-know-how-to-Voodoo-like-we-do'?

Warhammer Fantasy Battle was here.

>>7364354

>Also, they hate Drow.

What a unifier. No matter what, no matter the fact that we're mammals and they're creepy fucking frog things, we are all brought together by one elemental truth.

We all fucking hate Drow.

So who do the voodoo? Illithids or Kuo-Toa?
They're all creepy bastards.

>>7364400
Kua-Toa. Illithid get psionics.

>>7364388
Interesting. Maybe they have some kind of blood-feud then?
Those would be epic battles.

>>7364413
Indeed there actually are a few varieties of Voodoo out there. Some of it is conjure spirits have bad shit happen others are straight up enchantment with a chicken foot.

>>7364398
Oh Um... actually, I misread it. Actually, they HATE HATE HATE other races, for Drow they act respectfully to each other as do the Drow, but they spend their spare time trying to undermine each other.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20070503b&page=2

It's all there under 'Ecology'. Sorry.

>>7364529
Oh, well then.

It's frog's legs for dinner.

"For some unknown reason, despite their animosity toward most humanoid races, the kuo-toas treat the drow as friends -- or at least useful allies. Only drow are allowed free access to kuo-toa temples and settlements, and they are virtually the only people the kuo-toas don't attack on sight. Likewise, kuo-toas are among the few races that the drow do not openly try to enslave. Despite this cautious peace, animosity does lurk below the surface between the two races, fueling a low-grade cold war that has gone on for centuries. Each side quietly attempts to undermine the other's power, and both lay claim to ancient Underdark sites. Lone drow or kuo-toas had best beware when among those of the other race, especially if their disappearance is unlikely to be noticed."

For those who don't like Walls-of-text.

>>7364374
Hmm, a thought regarding kobolds and dragons. A Kobold's study of magic is an attempt to bring itself closer to an elemental ideal. When a kobold manages to acheive a complete elemental transcendance, they become a dragon. All dragons are ascended kobold buddhas. I'm thinking wu jen for kobolds.

So what kind of magic do the dragons themselves practice? Do they continue meditating in monasteries on the elemental ideals, or do they go out into the world?

>>7364682

The dragons don't need to practice magic--they ARE magic. They can use spells without conscious thought.

>>7364705
Using spells with just a thought sounds like a divine trait. Are the gods of this setting ascended dragons?
Does that mean that every god was once a kobold?
If so, it would actually explain neatly how they can get by with the monasteries in such a world...everybody pays them charity-tithes of food and clothing in the hopes the ones that achieve godhood will remember their families favorably.

>>7364682
Well, they still need to fornicate with anything they can.

>>7364751
While I'm tickled by the thought of kobolds secretly running everything from the clouds, I disagree thoughtless magic is a divine trait. The kobold as simply become the purest expression of the raw potential of elemental magic.
This also explains why dragon parts are so useful in spells. What better for a fireball than the heart of a creature of living flame?

Going from OP's list i'd switch elves and orcs, and make dwarves use runes.

I'm not sure about halflings and goblins though. I think goblins might be similar to orcs in that, perhaps gnomes. Maybe a kind of "witchcraft" based on curses? Being weak and cowardly, they curse their enemies to bring them to their level.

Halflings don't really have a standard culture unless you go with hobbits, who are pretty much the least magical beings ever, or in some settings they're nomadic, so some kind of fate magic might fit the gypsy theme.

Kobolds, if we go with the draconic origin, would obviously go with some kind of innate elemental magic (a sort of warlock in "playstyle" i guess, but tossing firebreaths and such instead of raising undead, creating darkness and bouncing his weirdo ray around).

>>7364880
And obviously i didn't read most of the thread, before anybody tells me to "see" something.

>>7364667

I like the idea of meditating/Buddha style kobolds. Perhaps their style of magic is less based on them calling or casting magic, but more about their magic protecting them as they meditate on the ideal of said magic? So in battle they could (for example) meditate on the idea of fire and its symbolism, etc etc, and if anyone hostile tried to interrupt their meditation, walls of fire would spring up around the kobold, or the attacker would get a fireball to the face. They would, essentially, become passive aggressive pacifist casters, wandering the world to understand more about it, and then throwing themselves into battle to get some good meditation done.

Enchantment?

>>7365290
Pixies. And succubi.

>>7365290

Enchantment!

>>7365326

>>7365435

You're surrounded by darkspawn corpses! What happened here?

DWARVES ARE ARTIFICERS.

/THREAD

>>7361970

Your magic system is going to be stupid if you're trying to combine a rationalised system with a FUCK YOU IT WORKS BECAUSE SHUT UP system. It's just the way it is.

Either the BECAUSE MAGIC magic needs to have legitimate rules and structure behind the inexplicable nonsense part, regardless of whether or not you actually explain it to your players, or the entire system needs to be retardo and the systems that work sensibly are actually as random as the others and the strictures are purely social.

bump

I had the idea of having the various D&D races bundled into several super groups as follows

Parahumanity- Humans and the various Demi-Human races.

Grendalkin- Technically part of Parahumanity but have enough differences from the other members of the group to be discussed separately and consist of 4 further sub-groups: Goblinoids, Orcoids, Trollkin, and Ogrekin along with various species that don't fit into the 4 sub-groups such Chokers and other Primitives.

Beastfolk- Various species that usually appear to be part animal and part humanoid though outside of a handful of stable breeds like Centaurs, Minotaurs, Gnolls, and Shifters they are usually quite random in their appearance.

Dragonkin- Multiple reptilian species that are all related to Dragons such as the Kobolds, Dragonborn, Draconians, Yuan-Ti, and Coatls though despite common misconceptions the Kuo-Toa, Bullywug, and Slann are not part of this group and in fact the Kuo-Toa and the Bullywug are in their own little group with a couple other species and the Slann aren't even Terrestial in origin at all.

Avians- a very small group of sentient Birds such as Harpies, Kenku, and Phoenixes.

Subquatics- a somewhat small group of Amphibian and Fish races such as the Kuo-Toa, Bullywug, Merfolk, and Sahuagin.

Arthopoids- Various arthropod races such as the Thri-Keen, Neogi, Umber Hulks, and Ettercaps.

Outsider- a catchall group for any race that originates from beyond the Material world such as Demons, Devils, Abberations, Angels, Djinn, Slaad, and Fey


to be continued

>>7367872
part two

Each group has certain magics as follows

Parahumanity- Same as OP's choices for the most part

Grendalkin- A mix of Psionics and Sorcery

Beastfolk- Primal Magic that will often mutate those who use it too much

Dragonkin- all Dragonkin and Dragons contain a shard of the Soul of the Cosmic Dragon and thus all Dragonkin and Dragons can use Divine Magic of some form or another

Avians- Avians utilize Ki powers instead of conventional magic

Subquatics- use a weird hybridization of Divine magic and Warlock Pacts with their gods of the deep and of the stars

Arthopoids- Very mathematical and geometric magic based on manipulating Ley-lines and the inherent background magic that helps form the universe

Outsider- since this group isn't a true group it's magic covers almost all varieties as well as being the source of magic for many beings

Well... What about blood mages? Creating and utilizing life essence from themselves, and other creatures. Orcs? Though I like the dakkadakka esque idea OP had. Perhaps undead? Turning into undead makes you unable to tap the aether, forcing you to do so, temporarily via the spilled life of living creatures. Certainly limiting, but horredously powerful.

>>7367908
almost forgot something that Alchemy should be the universal magic or in other words if it's intelligent enough to understand basic alchemical formula and the theory of equivalent exchange and is able to draw a halfway decent alchemical circle it will be able to do alchemy

>>7367993

Perhaps a little bbeg...

>>7367993
well at least with my idea I'd say Blood Magic is another near universal magic system running on a primitive mix of prototypical Alchemy and Voodoo techniques while necromancy is based on either very perverted alchemy techniques or perverted clerical rituals to the god of the dead while the Sladd are the only race to naturally have Chaos Magic

"> Humans - Classic wizard. "Scientific" magic, everything observed, explained, delved into."

">Humans - Classic wizard. "Scientific" magic, everything observed, explained, delved into."

don't tell me this thread is dead let's keep going

>>7369457
Bump in the spirit of alternatives!

Skurn sat, meditating in the middle of a bonfire. He was old and well practiced in magic, and it took only the barest effort to keep the flames from consuming him. Skurn sat, studying the flames.
In his long years he traveled far and saw much. Beside the embers shed by a campfire to the heat of a caldera, Skurn had meditated all his life, but had yet to acheive that which he seeks. He had gained power, yes; but what was a handful of spells next to a true understanding of fire? Now matter how he tried, though, his goal remained forever beyond reach.
Concluding his meditation, Skurn stood. For a moment, he veiwed the logs upon which he sat. The fire consumed them, leaving only ash. Skurn contemplated the ash. It was not mere dirt; it was not simply the remains of a fire. It was pure. It was what was left of the wood when all of its corruption and flesh was burned away. It was the very soul of the wood.
Returning to his meditative posture, Skurn exhaled and released his focus on the spell. The fire surged around Skurn, enveloping, consuming, purifying. Before long there was nothing left of Skurn but a plume of smoke and a wisp of ash.
The foot that stepped from the fire was not Skurn's. It was far too large, and far too red. A monstrous eye opened, and smoke curled around teeth the size of knives. He understood now, everything was clear.
He was enlightened, and he would share it with the world.

well that's one way to become an Azer :P

Someone that knows how should archive this.

>>7372822
Thread Archived
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/7361970/