There's Dawn of Worlds, which is a free collaborative World building ruleset, but it's very rules lite, so you don't really get a lot of depth and detail.

is there anything that would be on a lower scale so that said depth could be accomplished?

how about some wargaming rulesets that could be easily modded to allow citybuilding, anyone know any?

Some friends of mine (I'm... not really into boardgames) were telling me about high frontier:
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/47055/high-frontier

Technically a space building game, with factories and asteroid mining and shit. Also it takes a whole evening to even learn, and then at least an hour per turn. So slooow building, but building, yes.

>>13129861
thank you so much

...huh, fuck man, I can't think of anything.

There's gotta be, it's a fun idea. SURELY some nerd in the past said "Hey, SimCity's pretty great, I think I'll make a point-buy for it!!!"

Maybe one of the GURPS supplements has something?

Let's get brewin' /tg/, this sounds like it could be quite cool indeed.

Do you mean like an RPG or something more like a board game?

>>13129875
Yeah, a system where you design your own town with pointbuy stuff that you could get from battles and trading, and the battles could be done with conventional wargaming rules

>>13129884
OP here, more like a boardgame/tabletop game
>>13129881
fuck yes

>>13129907
FUND THIS SHIT IMMEDIATELY

I recall the World of Warcraft RPG (aka D&D 3.5 with cows) having rules for towns, they were pretty much characters, with Leadership replacing Charisma, Strength being military strength, etc. and having feats and skills and crap. Don't know if that helps.

>>13129881
Eh, I'm up for it.

I say point-buy over random generation. You get a set number of starting points, then choose the location of the city (a marsh location would give you extra points while an ideal plain would cost points, for example) and nearby resources. Then you'd spend points on a tech level for the city relative to the era.

First thing: everyone collaborates on a single town, or everyone gets their own town, all of which are assumed to be neighbors?

In the back of the second book of Paizo's Pathfinder adventure path, Kingmaker, there are pretty extensive rules on building cities and the surrounding farmland and infrastructure needed to supply them.

>>13129926
Everything helps, basically what im thinking is you start with a town center or something like in a strategy game, and progress up tech trees so you can get more people, better armies and buildings, and then actual battles could be done w/ warhammer style rules.

>>13129949
multiple towns that could form alliances or compete, each town having a different player as its king

>>13130010
what if, using this same idea, multiple players could command one town as a democracy?

So, like building a city and then using that city's inhabitants to fight or compete with other players to earn more points, and expand or solidify your city?

Hmmm... Can't help but think of Roman cities versus Shogunate-era cities and African villages.
Mentioning villages reminds me of Spore.
Starting at a village point sounds neat, but for actual CITY-building, perhaps big cities you can fight in, point-buy is mandatory. Beyond that, it sounds like a logistics game. Sim City Tabletop.

shit yes i love you /tg/

bump, this thread is too good to drift to page 15

There's a game called Infinite City which is kind of like if you made SimCity out of tiles and you made it multiplayer and the point of the game was to dick with your buddy's area of the city.

It's pretty fun, actually.

>>13130174
LINK NAO PLZ

>>13130190

http://www.alderac.com/infinite-city/

It's by the guys who do L5R. One of my buddies does an L5R video blog thing so they send him shit for free. We usually pull out Infinite City real late after some people have left...it's pretty great with 3-4 people.

The AEG game I really like is Thunderstone, though. And the L5R CCG, of course, is very well done.

Oh shit guys, what about this?

Tabletop Dwarf Fortress.

>>13129926
I like this approach, but I think the SPECIAL scheme fits better (though not perfectly).

Cities need:
*Strength - military might. How much ass can you kick, if you need to?
*Perception - how clueless are the city's political leaders? Will you recognize when a threat is worth setting differences aside for?
*Endurance - Self sufficiency. How long can you survive in a siege? How much do you rely on trade, gifts and tribute?
*Charisma - How much do your people trust you? Max charisma is a city of mindlessly loyal drones. Zero charisma is de facto rebellion.
*Education - Either magic or educational level, whichever fits. High int can draw on universities and high-end mages in a pinch.
*Divinity - Are you the holy place of a major religion? Three? Do you tell the gods to fuck off and die?
*Economy - What do you bring to the table for other towns? How much trade can you offer?
*Integrity - Brass tacks time: how corrupt is your government? When you allocate money for a goal, how much of it "walks away?"
*Responsibility - Do you own up to mistakes? Can you balance your budget?

I see the game being largely about these attributes, often increasing some at the cost of others. Hiring mercenaries: +Str, -Rep. Hiring shady mercenaries: +Str, -Int.

Examples:
Bartertown: high ECO, low END
SPARTA: high STR, high INT
Athens: high EDU, low INT

>>13130231
shit looks cool, are the rules modular enough to be used for a variety of settings, like medieval fantasy, more, far future, etc?

So to make a city-building tabletop, we need a viewpoint.

Do we play from the model viewpoint? We would have models or miniatures of men walking or driving through the streets, trying to navigate to wherever they want to go.

Do we play from a world viewpoint? We have a table, and dotted around the table are "cities" represented by pieces of terrain you'd see in Warhammer or any other battle tabletop. Specifics of what goes in the city would be detailed with little models, or simply tokens.

Odd idea. Have everyone trying to build their "city" on the same tabletop. Say people begin to run out of space, or want to build too close to another city. This represents some slight or provocative behavior from one city onto another, which leads to conflict or competition.

Heck, it's like Settlers of Catan slaked with Sim City and some kind of fighting.

>>13130250
"oh shit what the fuck why do i keep losing"

>>13130250

Hmm...That would probably need a GM type character running the other races...

Or you could run the different races, goblins, elves, humans, and dwarfs. Random Kobold/Titan attacks, possibly controlled by a GM type character...with the success of your town dependant on the actions of the other characters and surviving the random/GM assaults.

But...Lord that would require a LOT of paperwork

>>13130266

>SPECEDEIR

Doesn't really roll off the tongue as well.

Nine stats is probably too many. And you're getting into abstract concepts and shit when we should focus first on stuff like "population."

>>13130283
i think model size and on like a huuge table or something

i hope you are all aware this is now the best thread on /tg/

>>13130269
>>13130231
Actually, this is disappointing.

This game is Rummy, but with a city and with tiles.

You know what I like? Games where you have the incentive to cooperate but also the incentive to cheat and fight each other.

How about you need to build up your cities because you know an invasion (GM-controlled or having specific rules for their behavior) is on its way, so you know you should probably ally with the other players, but it's a fragile alliance because you get VPs for conquering each other?

>>13130266
>>13130333


Population
Military Strength
Endurance
Education
Economy
Corruption

>>13130283
Probably world viewpoint

>>13130283
I'm picturing it as a DM-less system, each player has their own city. Every turn, everyone draws from a random event pile. Could be bandits, could be famine, could be a newly-discovered gold mine. Players cooperate or compete over resources, rejiggering their attributes slightly (possibly with an additional resource mechanic) to deal with the current situation. There may need to be some penalty for cooperation to prevent everyone getting along ALL the time, like a chance of revolt if you don't keep enough troops at home.

To keep the game from stagnating, have some events alter the deck. Once someone draws the "orc attack" card, if it's successful, shuffle some orc raid cards in along with a few new orc invasion escalation cards.

>>13130369

that would work in with the dwarf fortress...kinda...

>>13130368

Ha, not really. Give it a try.

>>13129926

Could percentage of citizens in a role be relevant somehow?

Number of citizens in a given role is better for stats, but maybe the percentages could determine your style of government (warlike, etc.) which gives you bonuses?

>>13129930

Wouldn't you have to spend more resources per building on a marsh town (strong foundations, etc.)?

Maybe you could have an auction for locations, which could be randomly generated, predetermined, whatever.

>>13130010

Groups of towns make countries, countries can do more things (sharing culture, etc.)?

Has anyone on this thread played AD&D Birthright?

>>13130333
>>13130370
Well, population == level. It should be above and beyond the attributes. As an attribute in itself, it can get really complicated, because it impacts so many other things in subtle ways. More pop should decrease your military and endurance, right, since you have more mouths to feed and fewer swords to guard them?

>>13130394
It totally is! You're trying to empty your hand, and this is made silly by the addition of things like "return tiles from board to hand" and whatnot.
It doesn't look like it has much depth to it. Neat premise though.

It doesn't exactly say this, but can you only place one tile per turn unless another tile tells you otherwise?

ok, so so far from this thread i got:

-World viewpoint except for battles, which are model size
-Each player has their own city on one big map
-there are random event cards drawn from a deck each turn

So far it looks awesome, Lets keep the ideas flowing

>>13130423

>more population = weaker military

That's not usually how it works.

I like the idea of making population like level, though.

Maybe you could get individual population units that can be given different jobs, like in Civ.

so if battles are going to be model sized what system should we use? warhammer fantasy?

I think we're all being stupid.

Total War has a nice system for adding special structures to your city. Mix it with, like, adding houses and acquiring farms and rivers and wells and whatnot, and Policies or Laws that regulate how the city operates (how much Food you need to increase Population, or how many Army Recruit points you get per turn to add to units in your army...y'know, probing our imaginations here).

Come to think of it, Total War has overall been good at simplifying relations between countries, too.

>>13130455

Would there be a possibility to reallocate them, if so what is the downside

1) you can only reallocate so many per turn

2)They have their own *skill* levels, so your educators could form an emergency militia, but would be very inefficient at it

>>13130487
this

oh and, FUCK YEAH GUIDO BATILLE

>>13130433

I think you might be reading the rules a bit wrong there. The little population token things are different from the tiles. You're trying to place all of them, but if they're disconnected from each other and on low VP tiles, you're fucked. I've been in the situation of running out of tokens but needing to keep the game going because I'm losing plenty of times. You actually want to have as many tiles in your hand as possible. Everybody goes "oh shit" when someone drops the one that gives you five extra tiles (the factory IIRC). I always try to keep one tile that steals someone's hand just in case that shows up.

>>13130455
FANTASTIC idea, sir!

Your population is the sum of all your attributes!

10 END is ten units of population devoted to farming and such.
4 MIL is four equivalent pop, but soldiers instead.

>>13130487
Board Game:Total War

>>13130531
Oh shoot, you're right. Game ends when you run out of TOKENs, not TILES. My bad there.
So, can you still only place one tile per turn?

>>13130533

And like in D&D, how you have races and classes that predispose you to different playstyles, in this, the race of your people and probably the terrain you're on will affect your strengths and weaknesses in play.

>>13130497
Well, if we're using pop->attr, each turn some fraction of your people would "retire," and a new fraction would be allocated, depending on your current attributes. END+ECO might give you a raw number, MIL and EDU at home might limit how much new MIL/EDU you can train, COR takes a slice whether you like it or not, etc.

There's Robber Baron, a one-person game where you play as a corrupt noble. Build up your town while making money and not getting caught.
>http://aeinnovations.com/filepile/PnP/

>>13130565

Yeah, unless you have stuff that lets you do more.

The thing to watch out for is power stations. The power stations freeze all adjacent tiles for the rest of the game, locking in VPs.

Oh, you know what else I like doing in that game - there are a lot of effects that make you trade tiles for each other, if you trade one player's crucial linchpin tile for another's, you basically start a war between them, it's hilarious.

>be OP
>leave thread to look at infinite City rules
>return
>47 posts and five image replies omitted
mfw
God /tg/, i loves you so much

>>13130612

Instead of giving your cities stats directly like that, wouldn't it make more sense to just have numbers of population points in various activities, like X soldiers, Y philosophers, Z nobles, etc.

>>13130677

Oh, and if we're connecting it to a miniatures wargame, the number of population units you have in soldiers would determine the amount of points you'd field in your army.

I bet we could turn this into a badass WFB campaign ruleset.

O.K., idea I think might be fun:

- World is represented as a grid.
- Each city occupies one space.
- Each turn you place an event card on the grid face down before turning it over.
- Events usually affect the nearest city or the first city to reach them.

Who should you play this card near to? Can you get away with setting your enemy up with a gold mine?

>>13130677
I like that better than giving cities Statistics.
Makes it feel too much like Exalted, that way.

Oh, hey, don't forget Black and White for micromanagement. Making people whose divine duty is to have sex until the day they turn 80 is good stuff for giving people jobs.

Or for simply gathering ideas of types of people in a working city. Farmers, Builders, Worshipers, Miners, Foresters, Refiners, etc. Not difficult to change that around to fit different settings, like Politician, Scientist (instead of worshiper), etc.

>I always did want to make a 'modern' B&W 2 mod, but they didn't release enough modding tools for it, I believe.

>>13130716
>>13130707
This and this... god it so butiful

>>13130677
Problem with that is, each turn you'd have to rederive your secondary statistics. Rather than calculating how many of your priests/mil/whatever are useless due to corruption, let corruption itself claim some units and everything else just be intrinsically poorer for it.

Fuck all of you people. I'm making a steampunk city called TinkerBastard, and everyone there functions as normal citizens but I'm gonna have above average brass levels and everyones gonna fucki ng INVENT EVERYTHING. Fucking locomotives for inter and intracity trade and fucking capitalism everywhere. It's like Rapture. Only less crazy. And with more steam.

>>13130782
imokwiththis.jpg

HOLY SHIT

OK

so basically it's set in like a futuristic setting, where a shitton of ships from various factions crashland on an uninhabited but lifesupporting planet. Basically, they all have basic supplies to start a town and trade between the other towns is encouraged but as factions gain power and technology progresses, shit gets dirty. Goes from towns to cities. Conflicts are resolved in short tabletop skirmishes.

Boom.

Also, captcha is your city/town name. Mine is the Fludder

>>13130716
This is assuming cities can expand:
Place down event cards all over, but allow players to move them a grid space or two. Kind of like a lite Stratego game.
And make sure there's always or almost always bonus to some bad event, so you think twice before loading up the grid spaces near your opponents with Waaagh!s. Example: If PLAYER [WINS], PLAYER's infantry units gain this Universal Special Rule the next time they fight Orcs.
>>13130707
Yup, like every population point gives you 10 points for soldiers, or something.
Go one better and give the power to Draft, dropping Happiness or some comparable statistic like an anvil, and maybe a couple more penalties, but turning your Population into Army at a great rate (ratio).

>city building

How about...Minecraft the Tabletop Game

I think it'd be interesting to have a simpler town game. Rough idea:
-Two or more players, use a sheet of hexes. Randomly assign natural features such as forests, rivers and valuable resources. Each player chooses where to put things.
-Players build their communities by drawing things on the map. Built a church? Scribble one on a hex.
-Players get points each turn for building stuff and sending mishaps to other players. Spend some points to send bandits to your neighbor, or save a few for the merchant carnival coming through the area next turn.

>>13129966
Playing Kingmaker now but still on the first book. My DM told me about some of the rules for nation building and I like what I've heard.

>>13130835
this sounds awesome

>>13130820
Alpha Centauri Tabletop.

>>13130323
Sorry for replying to something really old, but you don't have to have anyone running NPC races.

They could be run in the same way as the zombies are in ZOMBIES!! Players can influence their actions with use of cards from a specially made deck or random rolls on a table. You could play the cards/deck roll to make a tribe near your city weaker, or make one near an opponent's city stronger. These cards/rolls (I'll just call them events for now) can have a number of applications. You can place down roads on squares on the board (or whatever) to strengthen trade routes. The more road-squares, the stronger any trading is.

>>13130835
like heroscape for cities

>>13130769

I'd figure the rules would be there to determine how your population changes over time. So if you had X number of people you'd have Yd6 of them turn to banditry or whatever every turn, unless you had Z city guards, each of which would subtract a die of bandits, etc. but you'd have to pay their salaries...

The brass tacks here would be people and money.

Holy shit like imagine how intense this could get. People who actually roleplay can be like barons and shit, and write up entire histories for this city that just got shat out of someone's imagination! Like, this has so many fucking levels to it, it's incomprehensible. But this Minecraft the Boardgame sounds kinda cool.
STRIKE THE EARTH
RAPE NATURE
BUILD SHIT

>>13130855 here
>>Sees
>>13130716
>>Feels like an idiot since idea has already been suggested.

GABED>>13130891

There is a huge variety of citybuilding board games. Do you want to build a single city or many cities in the game, OP?

/r/ing archive

>>13130964
LESS DO EET

I don't like the idea of drawing random cards that could do anything and then just simply picking where they go...there's no strategy possible with that, really, you just get lucky or you don't. It's like a slot machine. That holds no attraction for me.

The opposite would be something like chess, where everything is totally determinate except for the opponent's moves, and so there's not enough uncertainty - it gets repetitive very easily. You've got to strike a balance somewhere in between a slot machine and chess for a mechanic to be really fun and strategic.

If you're drawing cards, they really need to go into a hand of stuff you can play. Of course, then what we have is basically just Infinite City.

>>13130960
what is this huge variety of which you speak

>>13130964
Do it yourself? Its not that hard.

I think you should govern your corruption ie you play you government and make your own alliances and shady deals. incorporate certain actions as cards ie diplomacy, trade route, siege, war, famine, disease, corruption, etc.

>>13130960
Sir, kindly produce a few examples for this quorum to mull over, else please cease derailing the current line of conversation, you homosexual.

moar ideas

>>13131056
this

>>13130716 here.

Don't feel bad, >>13130855. I see your suggestion as more of a clarification, since I was quite vague.
___

Paths to victory:
- Dominant military.
- Dominant economy.
- Dominant culture.
- Dominant race?
- Others?

>>13131102
Why does there need to be a "victory?" Play it as an rpg, throw in some external challenges when infighting slows, and just keep going until people get bored and want to try something else.

>>13131055

I'm studying development econ in school, so I get to look at corruption a lot. Basically corruption is a consequence of the government taking control of something - it'd be cool to have it there as a limit on various actions the government can perform, ramping up exponentially as you take more actions, turning your population units from productive workers to useless courtiers, fixers or lobbyists.

Although I suppose all of them could have their place in society. I suppose it'd be a valid strategy to embrace the corruption and set all the rent-seekers to your ends, but it'd strangle your monetary economy.

>>13131055

Working off of the corruption idea, what about cards that can only be played (metaphorically speaking) under the table?

For example, you take some sort of corruption "feat" which imposes an economic penalty but gives you a separate, illegal source of income. This off-the-books money can be used to bribe people in other cities (the success of which is determined by you choosing how much to bribe them with, versus random number plus integrity (or minus corruption). So if you know that an opposing state is pretty corrupt then you can offer less and still have a good chance of success.

These Corruption Cards could also be made to strike deals between two or more players against another.

New to the conversation, but I played a game like this on rpol once, I can post the rules if you want.

>>13131210
do want

>>13131102

How about this - there are three ways to play, one for the traditional victory points gotten various ways, one that has several different win conditions a la Civ or the L5R CCG, and another campaign mode that mirrors D&D in that there's a GM running a bunch of badguys for you to kill and the point is just to roleplay and grow in power over time.

What we've got could easily accommodate all those gametypes.

>>13130988

What if the cards had some information on the back, so you had a vague idea of what they did?

So you could draw a "bounty" card.
Is that a cornucopia of resources or a massive dragon hunted throughout the ages?

>>13131131

Sounds like the only winning move is not to play.

More seriously, perhaps I shouldn't have used the term "victory". Paths for success?

>>13131132
The cards/tiles indicate how much/what attributes it buffs/debuffs ie gold mine +resource +ATTRIBUTE
war -ATTRIBUTE -resource
etc.
>>13131188
Yes, that's what I'm saying. Say like you draw DIPLOMACY
OPTIONS:ALLIANCE
RESOURCE
TRADEROUTE
ETC

Use: Target Player
Action: Offer one of the above.

>>13130999
>>13131056
I'm not gonna waste my time for people who can't be specific.

Citadels
La Citta
Several editions of the Civilization
Through the ages
Res Publica
Elasund

There are tens more, but I'm not gonna bother for stupid people. Just because you are fucking stupid, doesn't mean I have to be.

>>13131132
Is this the FOX News school of economics? Because the private sector has *plenty* of corruption as well. In fact, limiting the impact of corporate corruption is one of the more essential roles of government (SEC, FDA, etc).

>>13131188
I'm seeing corruption as much like WoD's humanity stat. Many of the things that are otherwise cheap and expedient raise your corruption. It's fucking hard to get anywhere without at least a little corruption, but the more you have, the more it builds on itself and threatens to fuck you over, by sapping the other resources you need to fight it and do your job.

Conversely, the methods to reduce corruption are excruciatingly uncomfortable in effect, like cutting out a tumor. They risk losing much of your effectiveness to quelling rebellion or appeasing the populace.

>>13131245

As requested, but they are long and thus will be in parts.

The Game in Brief

Unlike other games of similar nature you do not play a god or a political leader. In fact there are no distinguishing character elements that you begin with at all.
Instead you play as a people itself. Every race is allotted a group of it's own.
This is essentially a tech-race but I have imposed some limitations to prevent that fully becoming the driving force.
It will be turn based and turns will be calculated by "seasons". Each passing season is presumably the time of 100-500 years, but that will not be discussed now.
The inevitable random factor that exists in the real world will be determined by simple dice systems.
Each player will control a budding human society but of varying race depending on the players preference.
War is optional, trade is optional, alliances are optional.
There will be one father NPC culture that will act as a 'first encounter' to each new cropping settlement.
You may choose your own cultural geography. Along with racial profile and cultural dispositions.
Yours will border with every nation on earth.
You begin in Paleolithic times with stone age capacities. You will progress, culturally, scientifically, and industrially through the on set of ages.
You do not 'die' when you are conquered. The game simply gets more interesting.

You are not a god. For LIES is god almighty and may not be disputed.

sorry to be busting in, i just wanted to mention a game i made over the summer to play with my little sister when i didn't have internet for a couple of months.

So it had a bunch 3-hex pieces, which were arranged in a world by the players, alternating.

Then they distributed magic tokens around the world, face down. Some of them were magic and some were monsters with benefits if defeated.

Then the players put down their first castle piece, which covered a hex , and mined from the hexes nearby, they also got a hero unit to start with.

Every time they built another city hex they drew from a deck of event cards, to see what was special about that district of the city, like a tavern which allowed for multiple heroes, or a blacksmith which added to the attack of units everywhere.

A person could build units, but the amount on the board was limited by the amount of food you could spend on them.

By the end of the game, what would happen is there would be less magic in the world, the heroes would become more powerful and the cities would expand.

Actually I designed a game just like this. If you make this thread again tomorrow I'll post the rules, my friend has em. It's really fun.

>>13131294

The SEC and the FDA are all about corruption, true. They're there to enforce the securities dealers' and pharmaceutical companies' cartels, respectively.

If nobody has power over other people in a sector, ie, the government is not regulating stuff, there might be straight-up crime and fraud, but not corruption, unless you want to take corruption as having a really broad definition of 'anything bad.'

Has anybody thought about...

using legos?

>>13131344

Playing the Game

A New Nationality
Every fledgling nation will have it's own group that is private. Your History thread is private and no other nation may post on it. Each season you will receive an update that allows you to post you commands for the following season. Pretty basic, I think. In the emissary thread, you may consort with other nations openly for whatever. Trade and war between two nations may happen there or via private message, which is better.

Beginning of the Game

You will select the various aspects of your nomadic people and settle in a region all your own. Gameplay will conist of your seasonal constructions, interactions, inventions and discoveries. You will receive from 1 to 20 commands a season that can be used for either Historical or Industrial purposes. This amount has to do with your prosperity. Your historical commands impose new discoveries like gravity or mathematics, or impose new inventions like the wheel or gunpowder. Most inventions have resource requirements and tech prerequisites. I will nullify commands that are irrational or misinformed. Similarly your Industrial commands impose new endeavors such as the building of an aqueduct or fortress. Industrial commands can be used for a good variety of things. Of course general projects like exploring(in order to find new materials) and construction. Social endeavors as well; declaring war, or having a cultural exchange of some kind. Even cultural endeavors like starting a religion or sending missionaries to another nation. Religions cost both a Historical and an Industrial act. Example:

Blue season:
Historical-Studies monotheistic creationist ideas.
Industrial-Conversion to Islam.

>>13131281
Wow, you're pretty self-righteous. Would you kindly go and fuck yourself?

>>13131265
That's useless enough you might as well not bother.

>>13131392

Of course you are not limited to existing religions, if you want to break away then by all means. Creating religions changes your society. A dice roll determines if for the better or for the worse. Either way you remain faithful to religion and cannot convert again for no less than five seasons. The effects of new religions only last for that time. To avoid ideological debates it does not really matter what your newest religion is so long as it wastes your turn. Some random creations happen due to religion.
positive conversions- Doubles income, Immigration, Cultural Boom.
negative conversions- Halves income, Emigration, Depression.

Prosperity: Happiness, Food and Population, Income

Individual resources do not determine the things you can build directly(commands may require some resources). All strategic resources you capture increase your net income by one. For every mine or strategic resource collector you build +income by one. Excess food(and later energy) will increase your income if you make a command stating you are selling it away. Some discoveries and constructions will increase income. Income is not what you are earning per season. Your income is how prosperous your economy is during one season. It fluctuates from season to season depending on what you are up to. The scale from lowest to highest is 1-100. Income is important because it determines how many commands can be done that turn. Certain factors lower your income, like negative conversions, events, overpopulation, war. Trade can also greatly increase your net intake. You can trade technologies to your neighbors for income over a set amount of seasons.
Example: JarJarBlunts buys flight. For two seasons +income by 4 for BobaFatty

>>13131403

Population is what allows your culture to grow. You require a population capable of sustaining your society. If it is to low than you may not make as many commands if any for that turn. If it is to high than your income suffers. Your population and your food rate are one in the same. As your food production increases, so too does your population. Therefore: your population will rise naturally based on given commands, as most will increase your agricultural sector. Similarly, some commands negate population growth. Every two seasons, however your population will grow or shrink by one depending on your ever-evolving civilization. The population growth/decline rate is represented like this:
Famine(crisis)|Overpopulation|+Natural-|Depopulation| Labor Shortage(crisis)


Happiness is the state of your population. It determines the random events of your nation to a small degree and may even determine surprises that I may thrust into your lap. These rewards and penalties will strike by my whim and don't even require mentioning. They may or may not occur. So ha and ha ha. Happiness is summed up every season in one word. Gracious,Elated,Happy,Pleased,Content,Displeased,Unhappy,Depressed,O
ppressed.
Some bonus statuses are: Scared, Patriotic, Religious, Free. They will appear in green.

All of the above factors are presented to each nation at the end of the last season(start of a new season). Here is an example of a civilization update, presented for a thriving nation:
Green Season:
Income: 30 +4 more than last season
Happiness: Pleased
Population: Depopulation
Military: 18 Legions
Allotted Commands: six

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/13129770/

Archived.

>>13131294

No-one's really dealt with the idea of city-spanning corporations in this thread yet - thinking about it, they'd probably work like other mercenaries.

Not really sure how they should work - maybe a deck you can deal from?

>>13131411

The Passage of Time: Seasons, Eons, and Player Involvement

As I have mentioned, this game is something of a tech-race. As such players do not need to wait for each other to post. This may be accepted at the interval between seasons, when the speedy posters may catch up while I tabulate the shift in paradigm. However you do need to wait for me. Players may post one seasons work as soon as I have posted his/her civ-update. If it is difficult for you to post often then you might try and lay out your plans over multiple seasons to me. This may require a private message or PM and it does not ensure that I will carry them out exactly. Unfortunately, in these situations, there is not much I can do to accommodate.

Seasons are a fictional amount of time that make up the bulk of your postings. They are not the underlying time frame for the world, but is how I map your development through each eon. Seasons follow a simple trick to remind you where the world is in relation to you. Every season is named by colour. The order of seasons is the same that is in the "styled text" menu below. They are:
Red, Orange, Aqua, Blue, Dark Blue, Green, Dark Green, Brown, Purple, Yellow, Pink.
There are therefore, 11 seasons in a Eon. Every seasonal post should be coloured appropriately to indicate what season it takes place in. You will be receive alerts on special seasons. Like: Random Creative seasons, season when religions can be renewed and Golden seasons which happen every now and again when specific(disclosed) technologies are researched. Golden Seasons mean increased prosperity.

>>13131429

Eons contain 11 seasons and are like entering into new epochs. At the top of each new eon two things will happen. A cultural event will take place that will last the entire season and effecting you respectively. Your nation will also receive from me a cultural profile for your race. This comes with one perk awarded by me. Cultural perks are special powers you can use to during one season. However at the top of the second, third, and forth eons, you get to choose one Cultural Trait, from two offered by me at those intervals.

Examples of potential Cultural Events:
Earthquake-3 sided dice rolled for each nation. That number of constructions will be demolished in the given nation.
Temperature Change in Trade Winds-colder temperatures kill unadaptive insect populations. Population modifiers will rise and fall every season instead of every other season.
Examples of potential Cultural Perks:
Art of War-one free victory over any army of any size
Voices of the Divine-a new Benevolent-Strong religion will be formed without the need for any die roll.
Examples of potential Cultural Traits:
Warlike-you may build two legions at a time instead of one.
Industrious-your industrial structures(mines, dams, powerplants) yield a +2 income bonus, besides other bonuses.

>>13131438

Dice

I will use dice to determine some things randomly. The following is a list of rolling systems I have created for each use. Combat will be explained later but here will note what the makes it random.

Religious die modifiers: Roll 2 six sided dice. First is good-bad, Even-odd standard. Second determines severity of religion.
Random Creation die modifiers: Will roll one six sided die. Even=yes. Odd=no.
Event die modifiers: Roll one 10 sided die. Even numbers=good outcomes. Odd number=bad outcomes. severity of event depends on number rolled.
Espionage die modifiers: Roll two six sided dice. If there are doubles your spy is caught.
Combat die modifiers: Like risk. Roll two six sided dice for the defender; three for the attacker. dice match up, higher roll wins(defeats one Legion). If there is a tie, the defender always wins. Unlike risk you may not retreat one battle and I will continue rolling until all on the legions on one side are busted. I will always show you the results of the dice rolls.

>>13131454

Choosing your race and geography

This one is easy. Your race refers to the physical description of your people. Whether tall or short, white or black. It doesn't inherently give any special bonuses. However if your technology reflects the capabilities of your race, theoretically, I may decide to reward you. You may get racial benefits for agriculture, commerce or even battle bonuses. Your race also is partially how I will decide what random creations you will get.
Actually your race will help me determine a great many things but it also helps to distinguish yours from everybody elses. You can have any sort of human race you want. Just don't start speeding up evolution to an absurd race. A sight impaired cave dwelling race is fine by me but an aquatic fish race? I don't think so.

Your geography tells me what can be discovered in your immediate region. You cannot find iron in a plains area, ect. It also determines movement bonuses for armies. Your armies receive an extra legion on home soil but may receive a penalty on enemy soil that your armies are not accustomed to. This can be canceled by spending an industrial command on training for that terrain type. There is no limit to what terrain you want as long as it is feasible. You can build around a volcanic ridge but not in a satanic hell-scape.
You have four directions to select your terrain: East,West,North,South. They can all be the same or be all totally different. You can have a mountain on one side and a lake on the other. Then you should select where your first settlement will be established. Honestly this is just so invading armies have a destination.

>>13131463

War

War is the raising, equipping, training and deploying of a nations troops. Most of these things are results from industrial commands. To begin raising troops you must construct something like a barracks or invent military tradition. The more military constructions you build the higher percentage of your population will be in the military(+1 Legion). You may deploy as many or as few as you wish in any given attack and you may attack more than once. All undeployed legions remain in their city of origin.
With training commands you must include what kind of training is being given to your troops. This will count as an extra Legion for the specified circumstances or it may cancel penalties. Examples: Amphibious training-Extra legion during amphibious assaults, Jungle training-extra legion when fighting in jungles.
Equipping troops determines special bonuses for single battles. There are certain bonuses for troops with specific weapon types. They are as follows:
Extra legion bonuses for troops:
Troop vrs Enemy
Light Inf(spears) Cavalry
Infantry Light Inf, Rangers
Cavalry Rangers, Infantry
Rangers Infantry, Light Inf

There is also a five legion bonus if the either side is an eon ahead. Also: If there are some exceptions for these troop counts. I will alter the troop counts if these discrepancies are interesting enough to acknowledge.

Other than those, war is determined primarily through individual battle and strategy. Battle happens between Seasons and puts the next season on hold. Your season will not advance if you are invading or are being invaded. If you are attacked you have a day to respond, if you do not your troops will not move. The process of any invasion will proceed like this. In this scenario, the enemy has two cities but has an inferior force.

>>13131472

Country A: Industrial order to invade is given. One legion of 26(base: 18 +8equiptment) enters enemy territory.

Country B: Invading force in Eastern territory. Deploy half of troops, 6 legions, to Western Territory; no settlement; Jungle +2 legions.

Country A: Move troops to Western Territory; No settlement; Jungle -1 Legion; Enemy encounter.

Battle: Roll, Roll, Roll. Victor-Country A; 20 legions remaining. -After a battle it is always the victors turn-

Country A: Moves troops to Northern Territory; Settlement; Legions: stationed-0, garrison-2, wall-1, total 3 legions.

Battle: Roll, Roll, Roll. Country A victory; 18 legions remaining.

Country A: Move to Southern Territory; Settlement; Legions: stationed-6, garrison-2, wall-1, towers-2, total-11.

Battle: Roll, Roll, Roll. Victor Country A; 2 remaining legions; Country B occupied.

When you manage to conquer a neighboring nation you gain all construction bonuses and your pop, income and happiness double. However you have to deal with some troublesome loyalists.

>>13131490

"Hey I just got conquered what do I do now?"

In this game when your county is conquered you do not disappear as a player(unless you want to) but instead become a resistance faction. Your culture retains it's skills, perks, attributes and religion, though nothing more can be learned, studied or built on your own. You instead become a traveling revolutionary force.
What this entails is that you are not bound to you previously controlled nation. You may, if you choose try and take it back or you may migrate to another nation and try and conquer them.
As a rebel force you gain soldiers from whatever land you are in, whenever the country you are in advances in season. Evey time this happens you gain a random amount of troops(six sided dice roll). You can still gain new bonuses and technologies by raiding enemy settlements. Every raid requires at least five soldiers to carry out and the success of a raid will depend on a dice roll(ten sided dice. Even=success, odd=failure. number determines tech received or troops lost).
When a revolutionary faction gains control of a settlement it may not perform raids any longer and functions like a small nation occupying one territory. It's income and population are drastically decreased but it receives an immediate ten extra legions per captured city and garrisons are 4 instead of 2. When a revolutionary gains independence by conquering every city in a region than it receives all construction bonuses of that nation and if they retake their own region than they return to their former power with whatever revolutionary troops remain.

>>13131497

Spies and Espionage

Spies are special units that can only be destroyed by other spies. To build them requires both an act and an intelligence center of any kind. Spies are risky because there is a chance that they will be discovered on errand. If the target nation is protected from ongoing missions than every season a dice roll will determine if an enemy spy is caught. Caught spies will be anonymous and can be tortured(to reveal nation of origin) then ransomed, released as a token of friendship or killed. However espionage can yield promising results. If the target nation doesn't have the ability to make spies than there is no chance one will be caught. Espionage does not take a command and can be handled individually. To build assassins, a nation must have both an intelligence centre and an assassins training centre.
Spies can perform the following missions.:
Steal Tech(military,agricultural,cultural,industrious,random. 1 per spy)-yes/no die roll.
Gather Intel(The seasonal update for the target nation during the given season including spy counts)-yes/no die roll
Historical Informant(1 tech revealed per spy, per season)-Ongoing-yes/no roll per active season
Industrial Informant(military,agricultural,cultural,industrious,random.)-ongoing-yes/no roll per active season.
Sabotage(destroy any construction)-yes/no die roll.
Assassinate Official(Destruction of 5 income in target nation) one yes no die roll.
Assassinate Dignitary(Throws target nation into Anarchy) one yes no die roll.

>>13131505

That's about it. It was an awesome game, and I didn't invent it, although I forced the DM to come up with most of the espionage rules because that's what my race primarily did.

>>13131387
CLEVER POST IS CLEVER.
AND A POST.

>>13131421

Having a separate deck from which you can draw city institutions would be cool. Each one would have various different actions it could perform and different traits that would modify your population - think of them as your city's magic items, I guess.

Churches, merchant houses, universities, mercenaries, spy rings, etc.

You could also have a deck of great personalities that you could variously use as mayor, put into various cabinet positions, or attach to the institutions to produce different effects. Like say a guy who would produce some interesting bonus as mayor, but could also do awesome stuff when attached to a merchant house.

You could draw a handful of cards from each deck each turn, lay them out on the table each turn, and let players bid for them. It'd make it easy to expand the game that way, too.

>>13130423

...No, higher population would mean a larger labor pool to recruit Swordsmen FROM and also a bigger workforce with which you could expand and control larger amounts of farmland.

>>13131518

Seems pretty cool man. I will definitely steal some ideas from it. Looks like he and I were thinking the same thing about at least one thing - a D&D character has a race and a class, a city has a race and a geography.

>>13131577

DM was a she, and it was an awesome game. For fantasy we can go race as being non-human inclusive. We were allowed to get pretty creative though.

My race did alright, but I started an eon late and when I rolled for religion I wasted a turn and got a negative result.

>>13131387

Legos would work pretty well for this actually. You could make different terrain/buildings easily out of them and you can reconfigure the Lego figures to look different, ie if some of your people changed jobs.

Although you'd need a fuckton of Legos to do what I'd do with this. Like 200 Lego men or more for each game.

>>13131611
You could use 1x1 pips to represent miniatures.
Black are axemen
Green are bowmen
etc., etc.

>>13131611
Not if you make things more abstract. Maybe a one-stud brick is an army, those gray 4x1 bricks are castle walls, that sloped brink on another brick is a tower.

>>13131387
>>13131632
SHIT DAWG WE BE BRIMMIN' WITH MOTHERFUCKING CLEVERNESS.

>>13131632

Fair enough. And so the actual Lego men would just be the leaders, each made from specific pieces. Your normal citizens would just be little tokens, despite each token representing probably thousands of people and each figure representing one guy, haha.

how does i archive thread?

>>13131542
Yes, have multiple decks labeled RESOURCE
CORRUPTION
TECHNOLOGY
SOCIAL/ACTION
RELIGION
BUILDING
EXPANSION
MILITARY

or whatever else you want to put. It would give all players a equal chance to strive/fall. first turn each player draws one of each hex (also have a planet piece so that you can drop the hexes next to the planet) second turn draw 3 of any cards play turn three draw 1 of any card. depending after what you played you would draw 1 +1 SOCIAL CARD PER TURN
1+ RESOURCE CARD PER TURN
1+ MILITARY

>>13131398

Sorry, I guess I was a bit over-cautious - the right amount of information to give isn't something I can state right off the bat.
___

Let each card have a number, representing the sum of its positive and negative effects. So a +1 could be (+1 -0), (+21, -20) or even (+101, -100).
In each case, overcoming the negative will result in a profit.
If you can overcome the downsides.

Does anyone else think this is turning out to be Erfworld with Lego?

elegan/tg/entlemen, please keep this epic thread alive until tomorrow morning, i beg of thee

So, think about this in terms of a D&D character:

A D&D character has:

-Stats
-Race
-Class
-Feats
-Magic Items
-XP
-Gold
-Attacks

A city has, correspondingly:

-Population divided into different estates or professions producing different resources
-Race
-Geography
-Culture
-Institutions and Organizations
-Overall Population
-Gold
-Military Units

Is there anything major I'm leaving out?

>>13131542
Yes, have multiple decks labeled RESOURCE
CORRUPTION
TECHNOLOGY
SOCIAL/ACTION
RELIGION
BUILDING
EXPANSION
MILITARY

or whatever else you want to put. It would give all players a equal chance to strive/fall. first turn each player draws one of each hex (also have a planet piece so that you can drop the hexes next to the planet) second turn draw 3 of any cards play turn three draw 1 of any card. depending after what you played you would draw 1 +1 SOCIAL CARD PER TURN
1+ RESOURCE CARD PER TURN
1+ MILITARY CARD PER TURN
and so on.

The hex pieces could also in turn give you an income and gain on population/technology/culture/religion/so on.

>>13131768
Looks more like a GURPS/FATAL citybuilding thing to me. And by FATAL I mean the overcomplicated rules.

>>13131789
Good, I wasn't the only one thinking that.

Commander Augustus(green) leading against a tank/warmachine

>>13131789
Eh, give me a few days and I can shit out easy to play rules. It's what I did with the B-movie monster RPG thing.

Hell, the stuff people are going on about with cards just makes it hard to actually play without owning specially printed stuff. Use playing cards, makes it easy as fuck.

>>13131789

There are like 3 or 4 people here all talking about different stuff they'd want to do.

Brainstorming is good for making up rules, but at the end they've got to get culled into something elegant, or yeah, you get FATAL.

It'd be cool if we could develop a universal city-based tabletop RP system that'd work in near any setting, seeing as almost all settings have cities.

>>13131838
for sure brohound

Counts as Space Tarrasque

>>13131825
Same here thinking about throwing stuff together based on what I wrote in >>13130835

>>13131786
8+ decks? That's a bit excessive isn't it?

>>13131875
That's the spirit.

The trick to homebrewing with /tg/ is to mine them for ideas, then one lone bastard needs to go through it all and cull the good ideas, hammer them together, and it's done.

Personally from this, I'd take:
The lego abstraction to represent things
A card system (probably using playing cards and a table rather than any kind of specially designed nonsense)
Statistics for cities (likely represented using lego tokens)
Hex maps

The rest depends on how well it fits into what the system above churns out.

>>13131789

Eh, I don't know about all the card things, that seems excessive to me since it requires creating a card game, making it balanced, and forcing it to interact with a board game. That's tricky.

What I posted in >>13131505 and up was how we rolled. Worked alright, nothing but dice needed. For a map and playing IRL you can have character sheets for your nation, and go over actions verbally or write them down for the DM. Play on a Heroscape style map or a homemade one. It works alright. Movement can be by season, or you can do it via battle time, maybe a risk or heroscape style deal.

Or, has been suggested, legos.

Another cool idea I came up with, take it as you will.

Let's say there's a Magic Level and a Tech Level to the game world. The Magic Level will start out as high as it can go, and drop as certain events (the slaying of dragons, closing of gates that pump out demons or monsters every turn, etc) happen, and the Tech Level starts at 1 and goes up with various global events (playing certain characters that invent printing presses & steam engines and whatnot).

Eventually it goes from the age of heroes and legends to the age of fusion power and space travel. Sounds pretty cool to me.

You could take a deck of playing cards and pull one each game round and reference a table of events. My experience here is with the L5R CCG, which has a lot of different events that can pop up and change the game in all kinds of ways.

>>13132094

That fits with how we did Eons. Each Eon lets you reach progressively higher techs, so it would make sense that events occurring in the world would affect magic... late-mid game you can have magic punk, or low magic medium tech, or anything in between depending on play. It could be a strategy in and of itself. There's got to be an incentive to focus on tech rather than magic though... tech is stable while magic isn't maybe?

>>13131993
Personally I'd like to see a mix of dice and cards. Dice add an element of randomness, while cards (just playing cards, not custom stuff) allow you to plan and strategise with your deck.

E.G. Roll dice to get action points to do X, but oh no! Not enough action points! That's ok, I'll play this King of Spades to get a free action this round that costs no action points. But wait, what's this? Oh you cunt Ted, you just played a Jack of Diamonds on me and got to steal the action I performed and apply it to your own city. Wait, Robert, what's that you're putting down th-
>>Joker
You Cuntburgler.

>>13131786
perhaps something akin to battlestar galactica board game, a set of different races and each race can draw cards as determined on its racial card?

>>13132129

It could be implemented well, or it could become too complex very quickly, plus there's the matter of deck balance. I'd play it though if you came up with a system.

More on the magic vs tech thing though, Magic would be a rush kind of thing, early-mid game blitz, while a focus on non-magical tech would mean you would try and shut down the magic so you would get an edge in the mid-late game.

>>13132126

Well with how I put that together, magic will be strong early game and then get progressively weaker and weaker, while tech has nowhere to go but up. You'll practically have to do some magic early on to survive at all, and the magic you have access to will vary based on your race, geography, and leaders, but eventually as cities modernize technology will become very important.

I was thinking technology could have a global level but certain leaders, cultural traits, etc. could give a bonus to a city's effective tech level for certain purposes.

Tech level would do things like add to agricultural and industrial productivity and give access to new military units. So starting out a huge proportion of your citizens would need to be farmers, but it would drop off over time.

Has anyone played the PC game Dominions 3? That's kind of city-based and it has a ton of cool ideas in it. Especially for races and magic.

>>13132188

When thinking about what could cause magic levels to dissipate I immediately thought of the barbarians in Civ - you'd put out a bunch of cool magic sites on the hex grid at the beginning of the game, representing dragon hoards, gates to other planes, etc. You'd get a lot of cool stuff for conquering them, but for each one you took down, a little bit of magic would leave the world.

So if you wanted to do a screw magic, let's build steam engines kind of strategy, you'd have to go try to slay all the dragons & stuff as quickly as possible, whereas magic-using cities might fight you to keep them open. It's a good reason for conflict, diplomacy, & treachery among the various player city-states.

>>13132228

What we found was that war didn't come for some time, although the one person playing the race with the Warlike: 1 free army and barracks, had to bow out before we got started, so early game blitz would require a specced build unless you tweak the rules.

I think it's far far easier to come up with overly complicated rule systems than to make something simple, because you can always add more rules.
___

Attempting to combine and simplify a bunch of stuff:

Event cards become event lego bricks, probably - that should let the grid size be smaller.
The profit from the event should probably be depicted either as a colour or as an area, because a height would get unstable after a point.
Roll for penalty?

...Maybe I don't have the right mindset for this project...
___

I seem to be the cause of most of the card stuff, even though I dislike randomisation. Weird.

>>13129770

Even though I prefer the dice and actions, I don't mind the card thing. The card thing just needs a simple system that is fairly balanced.

>>13132304

I always like games where the blitz is an effective strategy. I played Unicorn in L5R - it wasn't uncommon for my opponent to lose half his provinces before he could really do anything. Of course, finishing someone off before they could build an unbeatable army, honor out, or knock me out with dishonor was tough. I even had someone beat me with enlightenment in a tournament once, to my eternal shame.

If military units are produced by having some of the population become soldiers, instead of building them up over time by spending resources, there's no reason a city wouldn't have an army on turn 1.

I'd divide up the population broadly between six different professions:

Soldiers
Peasants
Workers
Thinkers
Merchants
Nobles

Each would contribute certain resources each turn, and possibly would contribute military units of different types. Like soldiers would give you standard military units (but a lot of them, as all they're doing is soldiering), peasants would give you cheap conscripts, nobles would give you heroes and cavalry, workers would produce conscripts and siege engines, thinkers would contribute mages and technological devices, and merchants could hire you mercenaries from a universal mercenary list.

You could represent each with differently-colored Lego bricks.

>>13132484

Ah, a Pony! In our game we had building an army require a barracks, which you had to build and which represented some degree of logistics as well, then you built units with further actions. You could rush, and there were rewards for conquest that made up for the loss of momentum, but it slowed you down. With magic thrown in not sure how it'd go.

http://www.mediafire.com/?9t5dm3mlzn3mma5
there more of tiles persay. this is what i got so far any other suggestions/ideas/advice please speak up.

What are you guys thinking as far as resolving combats? I've been thinking with a simplified miniatures wargame model in mind, but a really simple dice roll system would probably be more than adequate as well.

Anyway, peasants would produce food, which all the other classes would consume. As tech level went up, they'd produce more and more, and you'd need fewer peasants to feed a city with a large population. They'd turn out as cheap plentiful conscript units early on to protect your city, but you wouldn't want to send them into combat except as a last resort as you'd hemorrhage population quickly. And they'd produce a tiny trickle of gold from tax revenue.

Workers would create some industrial production each turn and consume food. They could also be used for conscripts but as they'd produce more gold than peasants, that'd be even more of a last resort. The industrial production could be used in certain military units and institutions.

Thinkers would produce a lot of gold and could produce high-powered military units and mages, and would also allow you to change or add cultural traits.

Merchants would produce the most gold but would refuse to fight, instead allowing you to hire mercenaries. They'd also let you trade food, production, gold, etc. with other cities.

Soldiers would consume a lot of food and gold but their units would form the bulk of your armies and their units would be more survivable than conscripts.

Nobles would consume huge amounts of food and gold but they'd produce leaders for your armies, elite military units, and possibly give you free special characters.

>>13132655

Oh, another thing thinkers would do is act as teachers to allow your population units to change class. You would have to have a thinker for each unit of population you changed to a different class each turn.

Well, espionage or military conquest racks up faster than just researching normally, but both are much riskier than just teching up.

With Espionage you spend an action building an intelligence center, and once action per agent you build. Sending them to steal tech costs only a command and requires a die roll. It's only risky if your opponent has a counterintelligence program. You can tech up faster that way because you get techs from commands and your own actions even though your initial ones are wasted, but as enemies come up with their own espionage programs you risk your agents, and you risk falling behind.

With military you not only get the enemy tech, but their resources/pop as well, although you have to deal with the rebels/loyalists. It has a similar scheme to the build of espionage.

In our game you could start with three techs and a racial advantage, the techs depending upon your creativity. Being multi lingual to start with was a bit oped though. Warlike and Spycraft builds were risky but had the potential to jump ahead. I suppose mage builds would be the same way, but moreso and more of a risk.

>>13132655

For combat we did a per scissors rock thing, but more extended using troop types giving bonuses, some orders being reordered by terrain, and terrain modifiers that can give even more bonuses depending on how your soldiers are specced. However, with an actual map you can do it that way as well as with wargaming style.

In >>13131472 is a scrunched up version of how we did things. Over rpol we did it risk style, with a number of troops bonus if you had an edge, say spearmen vs cavalry, and terrain modifiers, but it can be wargamed.

>>13132695

Well, I was thinking of tech levels as a universal thing a la Traveller and not as discrete technologies as in the Civ tradition.

I'd probably handle spying entirely though special characters and institutions - you'd buy some kind of spy ring or assassins guild or scrying wizard or something, and pay gold to have them perform actions, which would include killing someone's special characters, disrupting their economy, moving their military units, and getting a tech boost from them if they have a special bonus that gives them better tech than the global level. Oh, and they'd also provide you with defenses against enemy spies.

I don't think spying can be a city's main schtick - helpful for sure, but not your primary advantage.

>>13132815

It can be done that way. The generalized way allows for more customization and variability, and everyone winds up in the same general tier, but that simplifies things a great deal.

>>13132868

I just can't stand games where you can just focus on out-teching people anymore. Especially in your more mediocre RTS games, I can just turtle up, hit the "research tech" buttons in the right order, and blam, I have an unstoppable advantage. Or my opponent has done the same thing and now we're on an even playing field, but we had to sit around for ten minutes hitting research buttons first.

I much prefer the style of 'here are your resources, spend them now or lose them, and oh shit here come the bad guys' to 'scrimp and save now, be unstoppable later.'

It'd be like in D&D if you could hide in the dragon's lair for twenty rounds saving up actions somehow and then you let them all loose at once and instagibbed it. It's effective but it's not fun.

By magic... how magic are we talking? Spells that raize whole cities can be gamebreakers, as can zombie apocalypses.

>>13133088

Actually, that's not how it plays. Your tech either gives you specific boosts to stats or special rules that sometimes give you things like extra actions. The build up makes eventual conflict down the road interesting because without spying you don't know what your opponent is going to pull.

There is no set number of techs, or set effects, and room for innovation. It's slightly freeform, which is why you need a DM.

>>13133093

Well, they wouldn't raze entire cities (not quite). That'd be shitty in a game where the city is your character. I was thinking they'd be on the level of spells in Dominions 3, but toned down a bit. A really powerful wizard can hit a city with something like a biblical plague at worst, without spending civilization-bankrupting levels of resources. There's one spell in that game which makes everybody (EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD) start rapidly aging, which is hilarious when you're playing as Ermor, the land of the Undead. So many new recruits all of a sudden!

When the world is young and full of magic, before the dragons all get killed and the portals to other planes are closed etc etc I'd think a properly trained archwizard would have access to stuff like 9th-level D&D spells. Which produce very impressive effects but usually not on a global scale.

As the magic drains from the world I'd expect the power of mages to go from army-killing superpowers in the first few turns to extremely useful one-man siege artillery to heroic specialized combatants to the equivalents of one average soldier with a normal infantry weapon. And then when the magic level finally drops to zero, they'll probably just pick up those normal infantry weapons.

>>13133138

Oh, that's pretty cool, actually. That's what I was thinking a city's cultural traits would do.

Wow. almost 200 posts and NOBODY has mentioned "Kingsburg". It's a competitive city building game for up to 4 players. It's good, kinda deep but not too much, plays pretty quickly and has a good expansion. check it out on boardgamegeek.

>>13133335

I could research coffee and Coca leaves, for instance (I did in game) which gave me an extra action each, but had adverse health effects until I researched how to properly dose and build up a tolerance to them... basically safe practices.

Let me give you a sample turn...

Orange Season Eon#2:
Income: 12
Happiness: Content
Population: Neutral (Food Shortage)
Military:
3 Agents-awaiting orders
1 Agent- in the Delts prison
1 marauding band
Allotted Commands: Four (one for nation solidity)

OOC: Food shortage will result in famine within 3 turns unless you bring up a new source of food or deal up with marauders. Domesticated goats will restore as soon as you deal with marauders.

Orange Season Eon#2:

Historical Commands:
The notion of taking human life is introduced to your people. Physiologically it is fascinating that the Pandorans haven't discovered the notion before. +1 legion, influence.

Industrial Commands:
Barracks built in Mountain Village(for lack of a better name) +1 legion. +2 garrison.

1 mountaineers legion trained for rocky region combat.

1 legion of soldiers trained for jungle combat.

Random Creation: In response to the sudden introduction of arms and warfare into Panduran society, a small percentage of the population resorts to criminal activities. They are soon drafted by the raiders. +1 marauding band.

Espionage:
A major success in the Delt homeland of Katoan. All agents converted to serve your might. +2 Deltic agent. Panduran agent returned.

((2)), A success! Our agents managed to set fire to the scouts retreat in the Capitol city of Katoan. They have returned safely.

((6)), Success! Agents in Katoan managed to get away with information regarding a simple device that allows greater loads and quantities to be more easily transported. The wheel stolen and re-developed. +2 income.

Embassies: Jhandihari missionaries have arrived and have set up an emissary in Mountain Pass. They have also begun converting the people.

>>13133311

What's to stop them from using the magic to blitz the magic sources, grabbing resources quickly and thus a leg up on everyone else, trading magic for science of their own accord?

>>13129770
I once played a card game at a local convention called Glory to Rome. The players played Roman citizens and tried to win the most power building Rome in a variety of ways. It was pretty fun.

>>13133725

If they invest heavily in mages and then destroy all the world's magic, they'd be crippling themselves. They'd wind up being very rich but very vulnerable. Of course, the main thing that'd prevent that is mostly distance, I'd imagine. Even if you can easily lay out a dragon you might not be able to get to the other side of the ocean where he's sleeping.

Also, nothing would really stop everybody else from doing the same thing...I imagine magic would die out very quickly in many games as everyone would send legendary heroes and archmagi to seal the portals and slay their local dragons.

And that's badass. I'm okay with that.

I'd figure a lot of magic items would work to some extent to the bitter end but mages' big boom spells would lose their effectiveness rather quickly. So after the age of legendary heroes at the dawn of the world we'd have one where new heroes would take up their forefathers' ancient magic weapons and go on long journeys to slay the last remaining dragons in the far corners of the world.

This is also pretty awesome.

And then we'd have a land with a rich history of magic and tales of valor, giving way to a new dawn of technology as the industrial revolution begins.

Pretty awesome all around I think.

>>13133848

Or they all go on magical blitzkriegs. It could be awesome, but eliminating the magic means building up a force sizable enough and dedicating it to that end too, and everyone doing it. I guess it just depends on playstyle as well as game specifics.

Also, later in that same game I invented cocaine and set up a smuggling route into another country to give them a drug problem and boost my income. That was fun.

>>13133884

>I invented cocaine

That's the greatest thing I've heard all night.

bamper

RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

>>13131825
just going to keep bumping this thread until this guy comes back with something awesome

jointure himpon

>>13138062
fine with me, i can't wait to see what hes got in store, in the meantime, lets try to pool even more ideas.

>>13139819
indeed, as long as it dosen't get too convoluted

sup everyone, can't believe this thread is still around, anyone wanna give me a summary of what happened between late last night and now?

MONOPOLY!

JESUS CHRIST, JUST PLAY MONOPOLY!

GOODNESS!

>>13139912
but iwanna build mah buildans ilove to build mah buildanz

>>13139938

>>13129770
Hmm, City building game...
If you could get in contact with the guy who used to run Lord Quest he seemed like he had a pretty in depth system for it.
(God I miss Lord Quest)

>>13139965
whats lord quest?

>>13139993
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive.html?tags=Lord+Quest

http://playerside.blogspot.com/
Dis guy is currently making 'Paper Empires'- it's gonna be free- pdf form.

>>13141083
I hope the different eras will be linkable.

talitims mrs

I can't allow this to die... and I hunger to play soon.

>>13138062
>>13139819
>>13139860

Sorry, work christmas bash tomorrow night, so it'll be delayed a day or two. Here's what I have so far. Heading home from work now, I'll post what I have so far in a new thread when I get back in an hour and a bit