Inquisitors who investigate Space Marine chapter tend to not come back.

The Astartes exist outside of the Imperial command structure, forming something of an independent race allied with humanity more than anything else.

>>12969330

Inquisitors who dabble with honorable and manly chapters, like the Unforgiven and the Space Wolves tend to not come back.

The Ultramarines and all the other that aspire to their 'spiritual liege' bend over for the inquisition.

>>12969330
Two words: Flame Falcons.
>>12969350
In that case, can we get some writefaggotry on this?

Man, the Blood Ravens checked out with the Inquisition. That's just evidence the Inquisition isn't as potent as they make themselves out to be.

>>12969266

which chapters declare Calgar their Spiritual Liege? I know most of the Ultramarine successors hold Gulliman as their Spiritual Liege, but not even the Ultramarines themselves call Calgar their Spiritual Liege.

>>12969537

That's because Gabriel Angelos is the greatest Space Marine Captain this side of Kayvan Shrike.

He'll be Chapter Master of the Blood Ravens before long, mark my words.

>>12969587
Find the interview with Matt Ward, author of the 5th Edition Space Marine 'Wardex'. He states that most chapters view Calgar as their 'spiritual liege'.

>>12969614
I am Intrigued. Reference? (youtube's got nothing)

>>12969674
It's a print interview. Try a GIS for 'spiritual liege matt ward' (without the quotes) and you'll find it.

On a highly tangential note, anyone else notice that the Deathwatch rulebook has Space Marines talking like Clanners from Battletech?

>>12969614

I'm gonna ignore that on the basis of Matt Ward being some kind of bizarre Ultramarine Ultra-fanboy.

>>12969696

Aff

>>12969731
Wut?

>>12969696
Specifically, it says that as noble warrior-knights, they should not speak using contractions.

You do realize that the Space Marines revere Emps as the Greatest Man who ever lived. But a man none the less. He isn't a god to them. The Eccelisary came AFTER the Muhreens, and they both operate independently. The thing is, with the way the fluff says, it seems like Marines are a SOOPER DOOPER common thing. Keep in mind. Most people will Never see a space marine in their life. They're the Angels of Death, and are treated as such. They come only when you need a miracle to save your ass, and the planet.

>>12969920
Quineg, stravag?

Codex: Space Marines p.24

>Chapters in the second category are disciples who owe their genetic inheritance to another Primarch, but follow the Codex Astartes as keenly as their divergent heritage allows. While primarily composed of successor Chapters, this group also includes several Chapters of the First Founding - notably the Imperial Fists, White Scars and the Raven Guard. These chapters can never be Ultramarines, for their gene-seed is not that of Roboute Guilliman. Nevertheless, they will ever aspire to the standards and teachings of the great Primarch.

>The third and final group are aberrants; chapters who, through quirk of gene-seed, mutation or stubbornness, eschew the Codex Astartes in favor of other structural and combat doctrines. Some, such as the Blood Angels and their successors, strive to be worthy of Guilliman's legacy, but their recalcitrant gene-seed drives them ever further from it. Others, such as the Space Wolves and the Black Templars, remain stubbornly independent, looking to their own founder's ways of war and caring little of how they fare in the eyes of others. These aberrant Chapters were always few in number and their presence diminishes with each passing decade, for their gene-seed is no longer the source of fresh Chapters.

>>12969999

I like how he claims that the Ultramarines are the hardest working chapter when, in reality, the Black Templars work much harder. They are ALWAYS on crusade. They don't go home, the battlefield is their home. Their neophytes are tempered in the fires of combat from day one. And do you know why? Because they're the mutha fuckin' Sons of Dorn!

>>12969945
Roight n' propa iz suppozed ta fink of dere Empra like we finkz of Gazghull - he'z not Gork, but he'z da best Ork evah. We all wantz ta be loik 'im. But now dey gotz deze blue beakiez spoutin' 'ow dere 'spiritual liege' iz sum uvva beakie - sounds loik HERESY ta me!

>>12969945
The Space Marines are still supposed to venerate him as the greatest man to ever live. He's not their God, but he's the guy who ought to be their 'spiritual liege', not Calgar. If it were Guillman, it'd be dumb but not horribly heretical. Looking at Calgar as their 'spiritual liege' is stupid, heretical, and just another symptom of Ward's unhealthy Ultramarine fetish.

>>12969999
Don't the Imperial Fists, White Scars and the Raven Guard use the gene-seed of their own primarch?
Is gene-seed something like sugar lumps or something? like if you don't have enough, you can always ask your neighbours if you can borrow some from them?

>>12970483

Yes they use the gene-seed of their own primarch, but according to Ward they still want to be like the Ultramarines and are probably ashamed of their own primarch and "divergent heritage".

>>12970483

No.

Gene-seed is incredibly important. It is the chapter. Each marine effectively borrows the gene-seed. Eventually he has to give it back.

You see the gene-seed is used to make the various organs and such the marine is implanted with the most important of which the one that MUST be reclaimed is the progenoid gland. This gland regulates the other organs and implants and without it the marine will die. They're implanted with one once they begin augmentation and will in time grow another one which will be removed and returned to the Chapter. However the one inside them still belongs to the Chapter and will be taken upon their demise. That's the main purpose of the apothecary, to recover these glands from their fallen brothers.

Each Chapters gene-seed is theirs and theirs alone except that which is the Emperors due (a regular 10% tithe which is tested for mutation and used to found new chapters). Many Chapters share their gene-seeds origins but they never give it to another. So the Ultramarines won't give the Mortifactors some gene-seed if they're running low.

It is the most important thing to the continued existence of a Chapter and why they put so much effort into reclaiming the bodies of fallen brothers.

>>12970508
Then why the fuck do they use completely different tactics?
If they really wanted to follow the codex astartes "as much as their divergent geneseed allows", why do the white scars not use dreadnoughts or devestators? I imagine these units would be in the codex, Girlyman taught about these units (meaning they should be aspiring toward using them according to Ward) and their geneseed is not the reason why they don't use these units (they're for religious reasons and because they're a quick army, not because they somehow wouldn't fit in a dreadnought or because they couldn't wield a missile launcher)

Don't think about it too much, that's just Ward being a derp. Just think of it as non-canon.

>>12970566

Scars don't use them because their battle doctrine doesn't really work with them.

They no doubt have Dreadnaughts but they rarely use them

>>12970579

Soon as his current contract expires he's getting shuffled back to fantasy rules.

Expect a new space marines codex then

>>12970545

Worth noting is that Huron Blackheart trained and equipped the Astral Claws Apothecaries to extract the gene-seed of enemy Space Marines in the battlefield during the Badab War. The Imperial loyalists got extra pissed when they found out what the Astral Claws were doing.

Considering that they had absorbed the Tiger Claws long since into their Chapter, the Astral Claws were long past caring about "purity" themselves.

>>12970508
Exactly. This is highly stupid and could lead to MAJOR HERESY. We know that nobody but the Emperor Himself and the Grey Knights is completely incorruptible. Thus if Calgar should be corrupted like Lugft Huron was, he could wind up taking many, many more chapters with him than Huron did in the Badab War. The resulting war could easily do as much damage as the Horus Heresy if not more (now that the Emperor isn't around to law the smack down on any arch-Heretics). Alternatively, Guillman himself could have been corrupted from the wound inflicted upon him by Fulgrim, who was wielding the Anatheme which led to the corruption of Horus, iirc....
Shouldn't all this be raising some flags in the Inquisition?

>>12970595
The Tiger Claws were a successor chapter of the Astral Claws, though. Also, isn't there something about the Ultramarines having absorbed the lost primarchs' legions, or was that just fanwankery?

>>12970599

The Space Wolves have attacked puritan Inquisitors to help a known radical escape them. Their political enemies still have not managed to get them declared renegade.

The Ultramarines hold much more political clout in the, Guilliman having once been the Lord Commander of the Imperium and the AdMech sanctifying the Land Raider Crusader design due in no small part to the favourable stance taken by the Ultras. There are also much more Chapters willing to back them up, the Wolves are on their own. I can't see the Inquisition managing to even agree among themselves that the Ultramarines' massive powerbase is a threat, although individual Inquisitors will no doubt try to investigate once in a while.

>>12970611

fankwank.

Also the Ultrasmurfs are skirting the line of rebellion/heresy already with the realm of Ultramar and their command of vast PDF regiments and a subsector fleet.

>>12970582
Nope.avi
They never use dreadnoughts as they think a warrior's spirit should be free to wander after death.
And why would the reason why they don't use devestators be that their battle doctrine doesn't really work with them if they strive to follow the doctorines of the ultramarines with whom the devestators do work?

>>12970611

It's mentioned in the First Heretic by a Word Bearer. Apparently the subject was taboo even then.

The Primarchs also know about the two lost brothers, and apparently took an oath not to talk about them.

>>12970629

The wolves are not alone. They have the Unforgiven. The Lion and the Wolf were like brothers, true brothers. Especially after the fight they had.

If the wolves were declared renegade, or the inquisition shat upon them, the Unforgiven would probably be there for them.

>>12970651
SPOILERS:

"The eleventh primarch sleeps within this pod - still innocent, still pure. I ache to end this now," he confessed.

Malnor chuckled from behind the Chaplain. "It would save us all a lot of effort, wouldn't it?"

"And it would spare Aurelian from heartbreak." Xaphen traced his fingertips over the designating numeral. "I remember the devastation that wracked him after losing his second and eleventh brothers."

Argel Tal still hadn't left Guilliman's pod. "We do not know for certain if our actions here would change the future."

"Are some chances not worth taking?" asked the Chaplain.

"Some are. This one is not."

"But the Eleventh Legion-"

"Is expunged from Imperial record for good reasons. As is the Second. I'm not saying I don't feel temptation creeping over me, brother. A single sword thrust piercing that pod, and we'd unwrite a shameful future."

Dagotal cleared his throat. "And deny the Ultramarines a significant boost in recruitment numbers."

Xaphen regarded him with emotionless eyes, seeming to weigh the merit of such a thing.

"What?" Dagotal asked the others. "You were thinking it, too. It's no secret."

"Those are just rumours," Torgal grunted. The assault sergeant didn't sound particularly certain.

"Perhaps, perhaps not. The Thirteenth definitely swelled to eclipse all the other Legions around the time the Second and Eleventh were 'forgotten' by Imperial archives."

>>12970656

Hang on...there's something...OH YEAH! Those guys hate each other!

>>12970666
"Aurelian" is how Word Bearers refer to Lorgar.

>>12970666
Who's Aurelian

>>12970672
They don't. Refer to the Space Wolves codex and A Thousand Sons.

They're bro's.

>>12970672
They have a brotherly rivalry, actually. They don't really love each other but they also watch each others' backs. Yeah, they fight whenever they meet, but it's a ritual duel (not to the death, either) rather than an actual battle.

>>12970691

The whole Logan and Lion beating the crap out of each other. Russ suddenly laughing leading to Lion decking him and the whole tradition of champions from each chapter being sent to kerbstomp each other?

>>12970693

pic related

>>12970566
Nevermind.
Just remembered the greatest weakness of their divergent geneseed: kroot in a line.

>>12970705

'You must calm your fury brother. Anger is no one's friend when hard choices must be made. Let it cloud your mind and all you will have when it is gone are regrets. Remember Dulan?'

'Aye,' said Russ, and his thunderous expression mellowed. 'The war with the Lion.'

'You brawled with Jonson in the throne room of the fallen Tyrant, and yet now you are oath-sworn brothers-in-arms. This is no different.'

- A Thousand Sons, page 240.

Some random quotes.

"No one knows what happened to Leman Russ. Some say he disappeared in the Eye of Terror whilst searching for his old friend and rival, the Primarch Lion El'Johnson."- Space Wolves Codex Pg. 21 5th Edition

"Fenris breeds heroes like a bar breeds drunks- loud, proud and spoiling for a fight."- Grand Master Belial of the Dark Angels (Space Wolves Codex Pg. 21 5th Edition)"

>>12970742
Wait, what?

>>12970705

>Logan

You mean Russ.

Logan is strong, but aside from Mephiston loyalist marines don't have the power of a Primarch. Although it is rumoured that Dante once clove the Bloodthirster Skarbrand in twain, and Sanguinius himself did not beat the Bloodthirster Ka'Bandha until their second encounter.

>>12970773
That just means that Ka'Banda > Skarbrand

>>12970766

>>12970785
What's going on there?

>>12970779

Not necessarily. Ka'Bandha was never the head Bloodthirster, Skarbrand was once, and the position is currently filled by even greater An'ggrath who has been summoned only twice according to Ordo Malleus records.

And Ka'Bandha gets defeated by Sanguinor, who is likely not stronger than Mephiston.

>>12970761

>GRAND MASTER Belial

Fluff progression or an error from Kelly? Is Azrael going to kick the bucket?

>>12970792
Tau player roles to place units second.
White Scar player throws a bitch fit and decided to keep his entire army in reserves.
Tau player Scouts his Kroot into a long line across the other edge of the table.
White Scar player cannot bring any units from reserves.
Tau player gets instant win before the first turn.
>Problem, Astartes?

>>12970830
>ROLLS to place
I type the words "role" and "roll" too goddamn often on this board...

>>12970785
Strange army

The only way they win is if they don't play.

>>12970830
So basically the White Scars player was a retard?

>>12970854
Oh come on! Scars are plenty competitive!
Sure, they're not exactly god-tier and they've got shit staying power, but if you use your extra mobility and large charge damage by carefully picking your targets and making sure you don't get too bogged down, you can really lay down some hurt.

>>12970854

Nah, it's just the Tau player being a clever git. If I were using my Tau at the time, I would have done the same thing. You should NEVER have your entire army in reserves if you're facing a force that uses alot of scouts, like a Tau force with a decent amount of kroot. It's a hard lesson to learn at a tournament, but a completely legal move.

>>12970892
It's... iffy. His reason for leaving his whole army in reserves was so the Tau player couldn't line up for a good first-turn shot against him. So he was smart to try and avoid that, he just did it in the stupidest way possible.

>>12969266
My current campaign is about branding the Ultramarines as traitors.

>>12970920
Excerrent!

>>12970920
you mean you didn't know? I thought everyone knew the Ultras were taking down the imperium from the inside?

the Ultramarines and their successors clearly are a Legion in all but name, since most Chapters with Ultramarines geneseed would do whatever Calgar told them to.

this might seem like ignoring their own Primarch's Codex, but given how arrogant Rouboute was, he probably intended for the Ultramarines to remain at Legion strength while appearing not to.

>>12971058

The Ultramarines are consistently favoured by the High Lords as a source of gene-seed when creating new Chapters.

Some other Chapters have mutations (Blood Angels, Space Wolves) or have lost some of the organs due to gene-seed decay (Imperial Fists) or are otherwise suspicious (Dark Angel successors all call themselves Unforgiven and take orders from the Rock, probably would even call themselves Dark Angels if given the chance).

But why not accept gene-seed from Iron Hands, Salamanders, Raven Guard or White Scars? Did Guilliman make "arrangements" during the period when he had command over the entire Imperium?

>>12971091

It's something like 80%, yeah. And I'm sure Rowboat intended for all of that dickery.

However, if there were some kind of attempted takeover of the Imperium by the Ultramarines, they'd definitely be opposed by the Black Templars and Imperial Fists, probably the Space Wolves too.

Blood Angels are the bottoms in the relationship with the Ultramarines, and would side with them. But the Dark Angels would probably go against the Ultratraitors, with their occasional "run off and kill a fallen" thing. The Iron Hands could probably influence the AdMech to join the "Fuck You Marneus Ward" crusade. White Scars would probably join in, too. Raven Guard are too mysterious so who knows what they'd do? Maybe stay out of it entirely, which is what I'd expect the Salamanders to do. Or just guard Terra.

The Ecclesiarchy would lose their shit and hide, and the Grey Knights would try to figure out if either side had Chaos influence. If one side did, they'd side with whoever wasn't Chaos'd. If not, they'd probably stay out of it and guard Terra.

>>12971091
>But why not accept gene-seed from Iron Hands, Salamanders, Raven Guard or White Scars? Did Guilliman make "arrangements" during the period when he had command over the entire Imperium?

they do.
All those chapters have a whole lot of sucessor chapters from the second founding.

You cam blame codex matt ward for neglecting to mention them.

>>12971147

Admech and the Ultras have a close relationship, according to the codex:

>763/M39
>Due in no small part to the favorable stance taken by the Ultramarines, the Land Raider Crusader design is sanctioned by the Adeptus Mechanicus.

>>12970785

What an absolutely glorious troll face.

>>12971091
Raven Guard and Salamanders have fucked up melanochrome (I'm not sure how to write it) and some other organs.
Iron hands maybe cause they have enough trying to survive as 10 mini-chapters, and they are pricks.
White hands...well,I don't have idea. Imperium needs more Conans.

>>12971162

I never said that they do not have any successors, but if their gene-seed has no flaws, why do the Ultramarine successors outnumber them by such a large factor they do now?

>>12971189
>why do the Ultramarine successors outnumber them by such a large factor they do now?

codex: ultramarines

>>12971162

especially the Iron Hands, who he clearly hates the shit out of.

every first founding chapter that doesn't have a codex of its own gets a special character except for the Iron Hands. the Master of the Forge comes close, but isn't a special character, just an HQ choice that every chapter is presumed to have.

And their brief description is "They are too friendly with the Adeptus Mechanicus, so nobody trusts them". And they got one painted miniature.

>These aberrant Chapters were always few in number and their presence diminishes with each passing decade, for their gene-seed is no longer the source of fresh Chapters.

That's fucking infuriating.

"All of the Chapters who aren't vanilla-flavored are dying out, and only the Ultramarines will last. Your crusading knights, space vikings, and angsty monks are irrelevant."

yeah, fuck you Fatt Ward.

It's not just Ward's codices, the 5th edition rulebook says:
>Many hold the Ultramarines to be the rightful heir not only of Guilliman, but of the Emperor himself.

>>12971208

Crimson Fists aren't even a Legion, but they too get a special character.
In fact, they get a Chapter Master, while the Founding Legions other than Ultramarines have to settle for Captains.

>>12971168

except the AdMech are very political, since they're not really part of the Imperium. most of what they do is to appease it, while they do their thing in secret.

plus, there's the split over whether the Emperor is the Omnissiah or not, yet they'll tell anyone outside the AdMech that they all believe he is.

>>12971147
The White Scars have very good relations with the Raven Guard. I couldn't really see them going seperate ways on this.

>>12971232

Yep. Or in the Salamanders' case, a guy who isn't actually a Captain or a Chapter Master, so he can't take a Command Squad or Honor Guard.

Meanwhile the Ultras get a Chapter Master, Captain, Chaplain, Librarian, Techmarine/Tank Commander and Scout.

>>12971232
Crimson Fists are also BADASS and they already posed for covers and codexes before matt ward even knew what warhammer is. So they obviously get freebies.

>>12971255

Yeah. Sicarius is a legend throughout the galaxy and is rumoured to be the favoured successor of Calgar. His 2nd Company is the finest fighting unit in the Ultramarines or any other Space Marine Chapter.

Tigurius has extracted information directly from the Hive Mind and is the most powerful psyker in the Imperium.

Chaplain Cassius' Tyranid Hunters are becoming more and more influential in the Chapter. He's also vastly tougher than Chaos Lords with Mark of Nurgle or Typhus himself, with base T6 even a Manticore cannot instant kill him or prevent his FNP.

Sergeant Telion is so good a trainer that he's often loaned to other Chapters to train their recruits to the standards of the Ultramarines.

>>12971208
Rumours say that they are giving them a codex.
And that wouldn't be that bad, when the DA, who are almost a codex army except from the death and raven wing have a codex.
Predator squads right nao.

Space Marines just need a new codex (hopefuly not in this current edtion, cuz TOO MANY MARINES AS IS IN 5th) to undo the shittacular job that Ward has done with the base dex AND the Blood Angels. Lets just hope he doesnt get to even breath on the Dark Angel and Black Templar dexes.

Some excellent copypasta about the Ultramarines.

I don't see it as contradictory. I thought the Ultra fluff was good, because of what it left implicit. The nature of 40K fluff as propaganda pretty well illustrated that the Ultramarines are a force whose talents are only exceeded by their own estimation of themselves.

They are self-declaredly perfect, and in that lies their weakness. They are egomaniacs, convinced of their own perfection. Guilliman's legacy of being quite utterly convinced in the total perfection of his ideas, and the obvious stupidity of anyone who can't understand them, lives on. They have saved a thousand worlds and rebuilt them, and on each a desperate populace struggles to keep a fatally flawed system standing, because failure to do so is heresy worthy of death. Of course it's their failure, the Ultramarines system of government is perfect, it can't fail itself. They believe that they are the true heirs of the Imperium, and that anything that stands in their way stands in the way of the Emperor's will. They build their empire not for the Imperium, but so that one day they may challenge it. They dream of the day when they tear down the High Lords and put the frozen-in-time Guilliman, on his throne, at the right hand of his father, and Calgar takes command. If the war kills a hundred thousand worlds and leaves that many again free for the enemies of Man to take, what of it? The other worlds are surely that much better off with the true heirs in command that it compensates for any loss. Any intelligent man would side with us, any loyal man, so anyone against us must be a heretic. And the first heretics to go will be the foul minions of the great fiends Dorn and Russ, who near to ended the Imperium, Guilliman's rightful legacy, because they were too stupid, too blinded by the chance for power, to see the perfection of his works!

>>12971375
But as they are on the outside, so the Ultramarines are on the inside. Within their minds, each Ultramarine considers himself perfect, and that in time they must surely be the rightful choice for the Chapter's rule, and thus the rule of the Imperium. Experience and success only serve to heighten this egotism, until by the time they are within the highest ranks of the chapter, it flowers into full-blooded megalomania. Each of the Captains spends as much time fighting within themselves building alliances, trading secrets, and preparing to usher in their grand conspiracy, as they ever did fighting the Emperor's foes. There are a million, a hundred million alliances spreading from Ultramar, creating a net of conspiracy and counter-conspiracy so grand that it is said Tzeentch himself is impressed. None have yet acted, in ten thousand years, for all Ultramarines must make their plans perfect, their force unstoppable. Each know they can shatter the rule the Imperium has over its worlds, but none think they can hold the Imperium together afterwards. For all that they are masters of self-delusion, none yet are that far gone.

But for one exception. Sicarius, the newcomer, has risen fast and far. He is legend for the speed of his accomplishments and the instinctual thought he extols. He is thought by most to be a shooting star, that bright he may be, but that is the light of a man burning up. Sicarius is indeed a shooting star, but when he falls, it will be the Imperium that burns. His legendary instincts have led him to build a conspiracy vaster than any save Calgar's own, and he considers that soon it will be the greater. His haste leads him to prompt action, not to quiet plotting. The speed of his rise has made him a megalomaniac of a scale not seen since Van Dire.

>>12971386
Most foreboding of all, his lack of experience lets him think he can win. Like all the other leaders of the Ultramarines, he believes he can bring the Imperium down, but unlike the rest, he believes, in spite of all reality, that not only can he then replace it but that he can do so now. He waits only for the moment to strike. And when he strikes, the Imperium will be thrown into a civil war on a scale not seen since the Horus Heresy.

Except this time, there are no Primarchs, no Emperor, to build again.

>>12971370
Black Templars allying with tzeench sorcerers to defeat a hivefleet or something.

>>12971390
I don't care that I'm a man or that you're probably a man, but I will gladly bear your children.

>>12971390
Oh shit mang, awesome GW troll detected.

>>12971369

more like wishlisting. Grey Knights are getting the next Space Marine codex, and between GK, the Wardexes, the Wolves, DA and Templars... and the Black Legion codex which isn't very chaosy at all... that's too many fucking Space Marine codexes.

A "Codex: Non-Codex Chapters" supplement would be great. Iron Hands, restore the Salamanders' old neat shit, give White Scars, Raven Guard, etc. something better than LOL ULTRAMARINES WITH A SPECIAL CHARACTER....

>>12971409
Sounds like a great idea.

>>12971390
Just as planned. Omegon will be pleased.

I want to see some crazy shit happen where the Ultramarines and their new twink boy-toys try to hold the Imperium hostage by saying "we're the only thing between the Tyranids and you", and the Imperial Fists re-form to lead a crusade against the Smurfs.

The Alpha Legion comes out of hiding to assist, and also having sabotaged the Ultramarines' shit and manipulated things against them while never actually having gone Chaos. Because they're the Alpha Legion, and they knew the Cabal were wrong, and it was actually the Ultramarines who'd fuck everything up.

>>12971208
>Your crusading knights, space vikings, and angsty monks are irrelevant.

first army and still favorite is my BT army. this hurts matt ward. like, really.

>>12971375
>>12971386
>>12971390

This was written by the amazing Baron von Evilsatan. His copypastas are always awesome.

OP here. I'm working on a bit of writefaggotry on this. Stay tuned.

>>12972745
going for a Guiliman Heresy fic?

>>12970566

Moreover, you've even got Ultramarine successor chapters like the Sons of Guilliman who don't follow their combat doctrine. Which makes Ward's herp-a-derp even more so.

>>12972907
More Calgar Heresy, but yeah, sort of.

Transmission Begins:
My Lord *INSUFFICIENT CLEARANCE*, I regret that I must bring to your attention a matter that has disturbed me quietly for the few decades. It is my understanding that we of the Inquisition are rightfully wary of interference with the Astartes, but events here in Ultima Segmentum have developed in a manner that leads me to believe that some form of intervention may be necessary.

I believe the problems began in the year 965.M41, when the current Chapter Master of the Ultramarines, Marneus Augustus Calgar, faced the Daemon Prince known as M'Kar for the second time. It is my conjecture that the Daemon may have planted the seeds of heresy in Calgar's heart, as such creatures are wont to do to even the most righteous of men.

>>12973002
What exactly is their (the Sons of Guilliman) method of fighting?
Also, I wouldn't really call preferring a specific style of combat not adhering to the Codex Astartes. It's a massive work with dozens of tactics for every kind of engagement, based on what you have to work with. It's when you start getting unusual squad equipment (the Wolf Standard, Tactical Sergeants getting Terminator Armor), or not having the chapter organization (scouts being the elite veterans while the newbies get thrown into the grinder with a suit of power armor) is when you start diverging.

>>12973040
Certainly, the glory-seeking tendencies he has always displayed seem to have grown since then, and his penchant for recklessly attacking creatures that could tear a Space Marine apart with contemptuous ease (including Greater Daemons and an Eldar Avatar) has grown. Indeed, his recent behavior on the battlefield seems to me more like that of a Space Wolf than an Ultramarine.

What truly troubles me is not his individual behaviors, though - for should he fall prey to Chaos by his own pride, I do not doubt that he would be swiftly put down. I have become fearful of the possible results of a repeat of the Badab War, only on a scale closer to that of the Horus Heresy itself. Over the millennia, the Ultramarines have become the most prolific of the Space Marines, with a plurality if not a majority of chapters utilizing Guillman's gene-seed. Many of these chapters view themselves as indebted to the Ultramarines for their very existence, and even more appear to hold them as models of perfection.

>>12973098

If I remember correctly, the Sons of Guilliman are big on combined arms and generalization, so the only companies that serve a specific role are the 1st and 10th (veterans and scouts); also, transfers to other companies are extremely common (battle-brothers aim to get battle honors in all ten companies if possible). I don't know if that's a significant departure from the Codex, but it does strike me as a bit out of the ordinary.

>>12973180
Moreover, many among them have apparently lost sight of their connection to the Primarchs and, through them, the Emperor. They venerate such names as Calgar and Kantor when they ought to look up to those of Guillman and Dorn. In fact, members of a great many chapters - some of them not even close adherents to the Codex Astartes - have begun to refer to Marneus Calgar as their 'spiritual liege'.

My lord, this reeks of heresy most foul! It be neither unexpected nor particularly troubling for one Astartes to call another his 'lord', to owe fealty to his Captain or his Chapter Master - but to consider a mortal (for that the Space Marines are) as his spiritual liege is to forget Primarch and Emperor, to reject those who gave them purpose and to invite the hubris that laid low the Astral Claws.

>>12970594
I will have to say that this will be one of the only times in my time with the hobby I will be happy to see a spacemarines codex.

>>12973289
Lugft Huron, the Tyrant of Badab, perhaps the greatest betrayer since Horus, followed a path of pride. When he began his career as a Space Marine, he was a charismatic and powerful warrior with a knack for politics, but without any pre-existing taint (as far as is known). His strength in arms and his skill in leadership caused a quick rise in fame and power within his chapter. As Chapter Master, he developed an overbearing sense of pride that turned to arrogance, arrogance that led to his eventual corruption and fall. I see the same pattern developing in Calgar, and it terrifies me.

Huron took four chapters with him when he rebelled against the Imperium - and his Astral Claws were but a minor chapter. Imagine the scale of the conflict that would be created should the Ultramarines' Chapter Master rebel! It is my conviction that we must act to prevent this potential heresy before it engulfs the Imperium and destroys all that we hold dear.

Your devoted servant,
*INSUFFICIENT CLEARANCE*

Thought for the day: Innocence proves nothing.

>>12973040
>>12973289
>>12973180
>>12974253
Thoughts, /tg/? I know it's short, but it's a work night.

>>12974271
I like