Holy Shit! Its back!

I am now fully erect.

thx op i cum exocets it kill 482 civilians. i rate these war crimes 10/10

OH FUCK YES!

Dumping planes to bump this shit

or not, have to got, forgot the time

awesome

kick the tires and light the fires, OP

Internal Document 100372

BlackFlag Internal Document 100372

Mission Briefing "Poseidon Deception"

Goddamn it, it won't let me post my mission brief!

Source: Ministre de Sécurité Externale (France)
Deployment: Wajir (HKWJ)
Pancake: Wajir (HKWJ)

>>10363297
>Mogadishu

Oh boy. Somolia. This should be interesting.

AAR: Escadron Vingt-Deux, Super Etenards, deployed in support of the operation.
AWACS: None
CSAR: French Foreign Legion, Salizar Platoon

Contract Employer: Ministre de Sécurité Externale (France)

>>10363388

Is it giving you some kind of error message?

Also Somolia hasn't had airpower since the early 90s. I wonder what you'll be up against?

Planes N mercs? on my /tg/? Hells Yes!

Objective: Liberate the CMA CGM Medea from Pirates, escort the ship out to sea.

It won't let me post Somalian Pirates I guess...

Secondary: Destroy the Pirate repair/re-arm staging point at +2° 1' 27.69", +45° 20' 6.76"
Secondary: Destroy the Pirate 'Embassy' in Mogadishu located at +2° 3' 5.17", +45° 20' 6.82"

Strange, must be a word filter. Just cut off the Somalian part. And working for the French again? This could be interesting.

Fuck yeah, OP is back!

More than one way to skin a cat stupid four chan filter.

Background: The Russians are very happy with your work for them in the Georgian crisis, we've received full payment for your contract. We understand you took some losses while you were there, and we wanted to let you know that Sandman specified that his belongings be distributed amongst his wing and his family. In respect to his wishes, we have seized his personal assets at fair market value, and will be distributing the balance amongst you and his immediate family.
Now, we have a new mission that just came in, for which you were specifically requested. The French have recently lost a bulk carrier ship to Somali pirates, and it would seem that they intend to take it back, and send a message. You'll be providing air-support for the French Foreign Legion as they re-take the ship in the harbour area, and then put her to sea. Once at sea, the ship will be escorted by French Destroyers and Carrier Fleet to a safe harbour.
The French liaison has also identified several targets of opportunity. They are tired of these attacks and will be taking direct action against them. The targets include a staging point in the port where many skiffs and light attack boats get replenished, and a three story in Mogadishu proper where the Pirate's representatives operate out of. The French assured us that at the time of the strike there will be no negotiating teams inside the 'embassy'. The French have also offered a signing bonus that stipulates you will fly another mission for them in roughly a month's time. No other details have been released due to operational security, but the bonus is significant.
The operation will debut from Wajir Airfield where the French have set up a forward operating base.

HUMINT: Ground operatives report that the Medea is currently in Port, lightly guarded, but that roving bands of somali militants make it impossible to determine force size.
ELINT: None
SATINT: See attached photo
Air Assets: None (UN enforced no-fly zone)
Surface Assets: Distribution of SA-7, suspected Stinger nests, 40mm and 57mm towed AA guns. Not sophisticated, but deadly to slow-moving aircraft.

Threat Assessment: Low. The largest threat will be from MANPADs, and some small poorly maintained anti-air vehicles and towed guns. Based on the HUMINT these guys are cracked out most of the time, so the surprise should shake them initially. A quick strike should break their teeth quickly.

ROE: Weapons free on ground targets. Air targets must be identified prior to engagement.

The fuck is this?

>>10363526
Something you wanna add to this briefing, Captain fligh/tg/uy?

Expect a shit ton of RPG fire

And the Sattelite Intel

quest cancer

Suddenly I want to play Strike Commander. Remember the Sudden Death magazine that came with it?
http://www.replacementdocs.com/download.php?view.863

>You'll be providing air-support for the French Foreign Legion

Oh boy, those crazy fuckers again! I wonder if they'll make you bomb another hospital!

>>10363641
counter bump

>>10363641

This is no quest, summerfag, no quest!!

It is a tale of a game, played by manly men, GM'd by a god! Be silent, and read.

>>10363659
This time it will be a pet store full of puppies and kittens

>>10363659
>dat neck

>>10363616
>>10363641

Nope, its the Pre and Post game briefings of some guy's real life RPG campaign. GMed by some mysterious man named "Steve" and using a Aircombat tabletop wargame with homebrew RPG elements added in.

LURKING PAYS OFF!
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Mercenaries_and_planes#Archive
Archives
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8515581
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8526381
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8538520
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8562185
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8598508
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8606900
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8618962
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8633908
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8651744
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8663665
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8671001
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8690201
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8711026
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8750800
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8764141
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8787569
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8825955
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/8962834
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/9028091
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/9070735
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/9091532
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/9133174
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/9238394
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/9444052
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/9772662/

>>10363545
Frenchfag here. WTF is the Ministère de la Sécurité Externale ?

>>10363545
Blame that failure of a human being that made Anon talk. If his delusions didn't require him to spam us, the filter would be unnecessary.

mmmmm, planes n' mercs. tastes so good on my body.

>>10363711
>>10363711
Given the Sat Image, I'm going for an alternate way of Saying DGSE.

My money is on this mission lasting about 45 seconds before the CIA shows up with a BVR strike on your asses.

I never thought I'd see it again. But still, my old eyes do not deceive me. Planes and Mercs have returned, huzzah!

>>10363771
Just given the fact that they hired a merc group with a reputation for GETTIN' SHIT DONE should be a pretty big indicator that all is not as easy as it sounds.

>>10363625
No Sir, just a little anxious to get up there and whoop Somali ass, that's all!

>>10363754
The name is Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure, and the associated ministery is simply the Ministère de la Défense then

>>10363711
>>10363754
Frenchy, I'm guessing you are new to this, but we've all come to find that these missions have some disturbing similarities to real world events, and some of the knowledge presented in them from the GM seems to indicate some form of inside knowledge into the world of military intel and semi-grey operations.

Then there's the nutbag contingent who maintains that the op and group is being used by some CIA thinktank guru to role-play out mission scenarios to build ops plans for real world situations.

>>10363809
That's official stuff. Internally, I'm sure their are station chiefs and sub-ministers that handle the dirty work.

I think planes and mercs new contract should be to take out BP headquarters

>>10363771
If you've read the previous missions, you'll note that sneaking up on the Flanker is not an easy thing to do.

>>10363841
This is Planes and Mercs we're talking about, BP would hire them to take out a rival platform, to distract some of the heat away from BP's disaster.

Talking about mercs made me remember this movie.

>>10363865
oooo good point

>>10363875
Half the bad shit that happened in the movie was the result of the damn ambivalent woman. Decide on one you bitch!

Hi OP, don't mind me, just watching the op from 110,000 ft.

>>10363865

Hell, maybe the US would hire them to do it to get some of the blame off? I doubt it, but like you said, we're talking about planes n' mercs here. IT'S SO BATSHIT, IT MIGHT ACTUALLY HAPPEN.

So I take it last sunday was cancelled as gamenight, OP?

Got any idea yet when you guys will play out this mission?

>>10363850
True, but in part, i was exaggerating.

In the other part, Hell's black aces tend to prefer to zip about on passive radar until they find the target or get locked. If the CIA notices this tendency, dollars to donuts they'll exploit it with point-blank heatseekers or somesuch.

Which... isn't really a BVR strike, but whatever.

>>10363925
Yeah, it was called off.

The email said Friday, so here's hoping.

>>10363905
As far as world events id love to have OPs merc unit interfere with the happenings between Israel and Turkey......thats a powder keg waiting to explode

>>10363931
Still requires they manage to sneak up on them...

And between visual spotting and the AWACS setting all sorts of alarms OP's flight should have a chance at noticing them...

>>10363903

Why would America care about the French and the FFL busting some pirates using Mercs? Hell, most Americans, if they even knew what the Day of the Rangers was outside that Hollywood Movie, would cheer them on for blowing up Somalis.

>>10363905
I still remember the mysterious hospital bombing in Congo within a month of that mission with the FFL.

Made me really think about it.

As silly as some of these missions are, you read about the shit that ACTUALLY happens in the real world and you have to wonder... The georgia series was spooky, especially the resevoir poison and crop killing. That's page one from most warplans.

>>10363952

that'd be shit hot too.
maybe get some more war crimes going on, sinking hippy boats.

>>10363903
That's the NASA plane no one knows exists but is photo'd at the old 71 bases in England and Japan all the time, isn't it?

Well, just for starters, be prepared for major civilian casualties. Hitting the port especially; there are going to be quite a few legitimate fishing boats and other small craft there along with the pirates, but you're going to have to indiscriminately destroy everything because telling the pirate boats apart from the non-pirate ones won't be possible.

The building is also likely to have something else in it.

And the second mission you'd be signing up for that they won't tell you about yet sounds fishy.

http://s1.zetaboards.com/PlanesAndMercs/index/

>>10363952
Well, their choices there would involve fighting either the IAF (one of the best airforces on the planet) or the Turkish Air Force (enormous and pretty well-trained and equipped).

Neither of those would be good from a survivability standpoint.

>>10364021
yeah its called a rebel base but in reality its a refugee camp attended by red cross workers

Ah hell yeah...Planes and Mercs is back. And here i thought i'd missed a couple missions.

So the Russians are done with OPs flight are they? And now they're back workin for the French?! Oi!

So who's left again? What pilots and who pilots what now?

>>10364021
I'm thinking the building in the center of Mogadishu isn't worth it. Let's think about the problems.

It's in a dense Urban center. Stray bombs are going to kill a lot of people. Even a direct hit will cause collateral damage. Then we have the fact that this place is where negotiations for release of crews is made by foreign powers, so you could potentially bomb the trade negotiator from Germany. Then we have the SAM issue, since the further into the city you go, the more AA you're fighting against on the way in and out.

This is the cut out on the mission, don't go for this building, focus on the port.

>>10364066
Totally something Steve would pull

>>10364055
true if you were planning to strike at either country within thier airspace but hit and israeli ship or hippie blockade runner in international waters and boom WWIII in about 60 seconds

>>10364089
Steve/intel did say that at the time of the mission there wouldn't be any diplomats or the like present.

Could be a ruse or just faulty intel ofcourse.


High altitude precision bombing would be nice for this if you decide to go through with it...

>>10364090
I doubt it. The hospital was a moral choice, called in by the FFL since it was being used as a chokepoint and stronghold.

Steve rarely pulls the surprise card out in terms of dick moves, he just gives them either a moral choice, or lets them know that while a high alt napalm pass is effective and safe, it has consequences on the ground.

>>10364090
Remember planes and mercs are 50% planes/ 50% Explosions/ 50% war crimes

>>10364089

maybe request the FFL bring some CCT equivalents? Then just drop precision guided munitions on the somalis.

EVERYBODY WINS.

>>10364138
Let's face it, Intel can be trusted about half the time. Maybe no diplomats are their, but a UN team delivering aid, or Doctors without borders, etc.

Is anyone worried about the fact they are penetrating a no-fly zone?

>>10364148
>I doubt it. The hospital was a moral choice, called in by the FFL since it was being used as a chokepoint and stronghold

Technically Baron didn't even see the Hospital markings until after the bomb was falling and he was moving past. All he saw originally was the smoke marking a strike target.

>>10364182
Eh, not really. No one actually cares about Somalia, especially if a few dozen pirates get killed in the process.

>>10364169
Doctors without borders.....thats fucked up man cuz iv got a friend in africa doing that...... i swear if thats what happens...

>>10364182
Besides, if it's really no-fly, no-one will be there to patrol it, right?

>>10364206
But it was his choice to make a high speed pass to avoid over exposing himself. He could have come in slower and reacted to the target, but that would be more personal danger.

>>10364220

So I'm curious, did you read the fanfics from the first African tour?


Also, when are we gonna get some payback against those Liberians?

>Lightly guarded, but that roving bands of somali militants make it impossible to determine force size.
> impossible to determine force size.

This is bad news for the FFL...

>>10364285

>>10364285

anyone know what "Gothic Serpent" is in French?
I see a resemblance here...

>>10364259

Yeah, well he/we didn't know quite how ruthless the FFL is, now did he/we?

Besides, IIRC my Geneva Conventions, presence of armed and fighting soldiers makes it a valid, if tragic and unfortunate, target.

>>10364285
Shit, I skipped over that. Missed the no-fly thing as well, and looking at the ROE that will probably show up too...

>>10364271
nah.... do you have it?

Hell yes, Mercs & Planes! I thought you were gone forever!

>>10364318
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Mercenaries_and_planes#Untitled_by_sukhoi

>>10364313

and isn't there a massive multinational task force sitting somewhere in the Gulf of Aden?

>>10364341
Yep, but OP is going to show them how to actually deal with Somali pirates.

Someone should really do a running tally/estimate of just how many incidentals the Mercs have caused. I'd do it but I'm lazy and writing a paper.

You're going to hell Baron, but you already knew that. There was no turning back after the Queen Victoria.

>>10364313
At least your Hornet can turn better than that old Phantom of yours, so you might have some luck if you guys get into some WVR air combat

>>10364392
The Bug is Busted, isn't it? Op crashlanded after the last operation in Russia.

So i'm thinking a ton of light munitions for this one. Maybe drop some cluster munitions across the shore end of the pier once the FFL are across to discourage pursuit. Rebels crowded into pickups try driving over em goin pop pop pop.

Ignore the inner city target and concentrate on taking out the stuff in the harbor area and supporting the recapture of the target vessel.

>>10364336
my face reading bout that poor doctor

>>10364412
That's less cluster munitions and more a mine dispersal system, area-denial style. Might be pricey. Napalm would be cheaper and almost as effective.

>>10364421
We all hate Sukhoi for the child in the road scene. She's nice to us, but her writing is dark, not grimdark, just brutal dark.

>>10364432
Eh my mistake...still a sub munition though so i was close. And a single one won't be to bad price wise and it frees the pilots up for dealing with other targets.

>>10364402
Fuck, forgot about that.

Oh well, thrust over manoeuverability then.

>>10364454
yeah.... brutal is just about it

>>10364468
What planes have that capability though? Tornado's anti-runway dispenser could work, but OP's group doesn't have one.

What types of 'mine-deploying bombs' are there out there?

>>10364432

Do we REALLY want to Napalm ANOTHER Port?

>>10364454
I hated reading that. No explosion, no flames, no bang. Just a wet pop.

>What types of 'mine-deploying bombs' are there out there?

Good question. Anyone got a suggestion? And we really do need a sitrep on who's flying what. Its been so long I think many of us have forgotten.

Really at this point i could see OP just going for maximum carnage........would be major bank....which i think this mission might be considering everything in thier arsenal is busted

>>10364551

I think the USAF's sensor fuzed weapon can be used as a mine, but I'm not 100% on that.
Plus I have a feeling that those would be expensive as balls.

>>10364551
Hugs SU30 with TVC
Baron F-18D, and F-4 2K
Judge: Mig-29 unknown version
Scotch: Viggen (status unknown) Mig-23: Blown wheels, busted wing sweep.

>>10364551

From Last Mission:

>Damage Taken
>Scotch: Airframe (Moderate)
>Hugs: None
>Baron: Airframe Minor, Radar catastrophic
>Judge: Airframe Minor, Electronics Catastrophic


Its also possible repairs (even to the Bug) could have been effected since we last saw them. It does take time to move continents afterall.

>>10364551
"The ball-type submunitions are APERS. They are very small and are delivered on known concentrations of enemy personnel, scattered across an area. Like a land mine, it will not blow up until pressure is put on it. "

>>10364539
I thought the narrator was going to live as well, and then, boom, dead.

>>10364306
Are you saying it's napalm-a-go-go yet again?

Ah, well. They already call it the dark continent, so making it a little more black would propably worry no-one outside it. As cruel as it is.

Funny, though, that it seems I'm not the only one noticing the coinciding of Mercs & Planes threads, and the BP crisis. Steve goes off in interesting times.

The APERS submunition can be delivered by aircraft or by artillery. When it hits the ground, a small fragmentation ball shoots up and detonates about 6 feet above the ground. The area-denial APERS submunitions (FASCAM) are delivered into areas for use as mines. When they hit the ground, trip wires kick out up to 20 feet from the mine. All area-denial submunitions use antidisturbance fuzing with self-destruct fuzing as a backup. The self-destruct time can vary from a couple of hours to as long as several days.

>>10364618
>>10364595
pic related

>>10364618
One of these dropped over the land end of the pier in area denial mode. Serious problems for anyone trying to cross. But with rebels like these they may just blast a way through via sacrificial cars.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLU-97/B

That might work...


Also, archived for future generations

>>10364690
mmmmmmmmmm and the death toll counts...... delicious

>>10364705 OP DO THIS
The use of the BLU-97/B in Afghanistan caused some controversy as the bright yellow color of the bomblet was the same as humanitarian ration packs handed out to civilians by U.S. forces.[2] This reportedly led to 'dud' bomblets being mistakenly picked up resulting in death or injury.

I was about to kill my self, now I have something to live for again

>>10364614
Yeah, I picked up on that as well. Crisis in the gulf, finally ending as the relief wells are coming online, and then Steve reappears.
Russia lost a plane in the meantime. Russian Police officer caught with Polish credit card from plane crash. Russians blow the shit out of Somalian pirates and leave the bodies floating off the coast, claim the "sea killed them" despite the bullet holes in the head.

I would give my left nut to meet Steve and ask him a few questions.

>>10364735
Are these bomblets or mine style?

>>10364471
>F4Canards

>>10364792
bomblets....they arm mid drop and detonate bout 6 ft off the ground

>>10364735
What a surprising and terrible accident, that russian air-delivered anti-personnel mines would appear just like relief packages. Such a tragedy!

>>10364823
bah...we want area denial. If we wanted to waste a group of rebels directly we'd use napalm...cheaper and scares the shit out of people.

I know planes and mercs = warcrimes but arent air dispensed mines banned?

>>10364839
So good!........In every game i play a white knight....i can finally indulge in evil as a fighter pilot

Area Denial Artillery Munition
You can put it in Cluster bombs.

>>10364867
Only if you signed the anti-landmine treaty.

>>10364867
mercs care not for your silly international laws on weapons!

>>10364867
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that BlackFlag cares.

>>10364867
its up for debate currently..... i dont believe they came to a verdict yet....but i assume it will go the ways of napalm with illegal and inhumane ....OP needs to find out what the ration packets color are in Somalia and buy those submunitions in that color

>>10364872
The thing is, op and group rarely try to be evil, it just seems to be a consequence of the missions and situations. Outside eyes would paint them as War Criminals and monsters, but from the group, they're just trying to survive until that next paycheque.

>>10364941
Probably why so many countries hire them as well. The country says "We hired X group to do Y, we didn't know they were going to use Z to accomplish Y"

Cutouts, falseflags and blackops.

I'd love to run a ground campaign in this game world.

>>10364969
I understand that but this sort of game feeds my appetite for vicarious violence

>>10364941
Rather, Black Flag sounds like a corp more likely to pack a transport plane above mogadishu and shower the city with paperback editions of the geneva convention, while having undercover observers count how many get killed by direct hits.

Yeah. Death by geneva pact, just because.

>>10365009
Read Sukhoi's and the others stories? WHile the Bombs from up high is pretty thrilling, reading some of that ground level shit turns my stomach.

>>10364867

HAH!

Since when any country manufacturing those, have singed any treaty outlawing them?

Besides even is they are illegal, I am quite sure that the government would have signed an deal with an /completely trustworthy/ corporation to "dispose" the munitions.

>>10363067
Oh god it's been so long!

PLANES!
AND MERCS!

PLANES AND MERCS!

Planes and mercs!

Planes and Mercs?

I just came.

Me when I saw this thread.

>>10364818
Glorious, no?

>>10365088
I've seen these around. Any more of them?

>>10365131
Sukhoi has a full set I think.

my F5 needed a good work out for a while since summer started

>>10365152
She would wouldn't she

>>10365009

Not quite the same but I'm about to get into a modern minis wargame called "Ambush Alley" and this is making me reconsider my choice of making the "insurgents" Taliban style dudes and build Middle Eastern terrain.

Suddenly I'm tempted to pick up stuff to do Africa instead...

OH GOD

OH GOD IT'S BACK

OP AGAIN IS BACK... AGAIN

MY LIFE IS COMPLETE

Summer on /tg/ and we get a new pandm thread to help stem the tide of shit.

And incidentally, the guy I was gunna buy my 15mm USMC/USAR minis from also does FFL mini and "militia" that would make good African gunmen.


Hmmmmm... indecision grips me.

So you and the gang talking tactics/strategy yet, OP?

>>10365301
Get the FFL stuff!

>>10365301
Do it.

Middle East has been done to death in the past few years.

Why are we working for these douches? Why are we even afraid of them? They're french and they look like fags.

>>10365315
>>10365325
Agreed, do eet!

Ok so lets see what we actually need.

- Possible delayed action cluster munition to seal off entry to dock.
- Various cheap light munitions capable of dealing with infantry, light guns, and light vehicles. (Unguided rocket pods, gun pods, 250lb snakeyes, and maybe a couple of mavericks for pinpoint stuff.
- One AtA dedicated platform for possible contact with hostile international force out of Gulf of Aden as well as any hodgepodge air assets the rebels and mount. Hopefully this won't be necessary but being prepared = survival.
- Extra fuel due to the need for long loiter time while assisting FFL and escorting vessel out to French ships.

Does anyone see the need for anti-shipping weapons for this one? I doubt it but its always possible. Extra flares for dealing with Manpads too.

>>10365246

Africa would be immensely more satisfying, in many ways. I've got a short story/possible game setting sitting around somewhere detailing NATO hiring mercenaries to put an end to the genocide in Darfur.

"Mercs accidentally the whole Janjiweed."

"Who hired the Mercs who violated Sudanese airspace?"

"I dunno lol"

As for the actual mission; the "Satellite Intel" is glorious. My first suggestion would be to take an Mk-84, 2,000 pound bomb with Laser Guidance Kit (they're cheap, and one of the newer planes MUST have a goddamn FLIR pod- Judge has one on his MiG-29, I think,) and plant it right on the main access road to the Port. Leave a nice crater to make things difficult for derkaderkas and their Technicals...

... of course, that assumes that the French Foreign Legion is coming in via sea. They might not.

This is one of those missions that, if I was playing the game, I'd pick up an A-1 Skyraider for. Hang back till the mach-snot boys hammer known triple-A, then roll in from 10,000 feet with a high-angle rocket attack on smoke-marked targets. Either that, or load up with smoke rockets and act as a FAC for the fast movers.

Only problem is the FFL minis are much more limited than the USMC ones in both variety of poses and types.

Here is the seller, its his "Range 17" for his AK-47 Republic Rules set.

http://www.peterpig.co.uk/range17.htm

His American sculpts looks amazing for 15mm scale.

>>10365376
Do the Somalis have anything else but rubber/light boats? If not, rocket pods and guns should be enough I think...

>>10365400
An OV-10 Bronco or a Super Tucano might do the trick as well

Either way, you'd be fucked if/when enemy air assets show up...

>>10365400
mmmmhhhh....yeah skyraider would be good for this one. Gotta kill off that AA first though.

>>10365376
Extra fuel not required, re-read briefing.

They don't have dedicated ground attack anymore do they? Just Air-Sup and Multi-Role.

>>10365376

>air defenses

Yeah, when I first realized how much these pirates make off of ONE bounty- several million dollars- I sat down hard when I realized they could technically buy a crappy MiG-21 outright. No chance in hell they could afford all the support facilities/specialized manpower to USE them, yeah, but still.

I can't see how Steve would justify opposing air assets fielded by the pirates (past possible attack helos, and even that's a stretch) but there's always the chance that somebody, somewhere, hired the pirates to do some dirty work, and they also hired a MAS of their own.

Either way, dedicating one airframe to purely AtA seems like a waste of space, given mission profile. Two archers/sidewinders per plane should do it, and perhaps the Su-33 should pack two AMRAAM(skis) in addition.

Well, like I said I'm considering it, however I don't really know much about the FFL. Anyone know how they organize their squads? What kind of vehicles they use (softskin, APC/ICV, MBT)?

Anyways, I'd hate to partially derail the thread, should I perhaps make a new thread for this?

>>10365502
i'm prone to agree...they're more likely to put what money they keep from those bounties for weapons into their ground arsenal instead of actual aircraft...though another merc force isn't out of the question. What i'm more concerned about is a possible confrontation with multinationals who take offence at OP intruding into a no-fly zone. Or when someone recognizes them and decides to collect on any possible bounties out there on them.

>>10365499

Oh, they do, they do, but as Air Action Weekly observes-

>Gotta kill off that AA first though

-dedicated piston-engined ground-pounders trade survivability for effectiveness. A slow-moving aircraft can find and destroy ground targets a lot easier, but by the same token are much more vulnerable to conventional triple-A and MANPAD SAMs. In the actual execution of close-air-support, however, they are unparalleled.

... and cheap, which helps mitigate the dangers of the high-threat environment. This is why they need to work in conjunction with fast-movers in the SEAD role.

>>10365303
Not yet. I'm thinking about using the Phantom again, it was a good bomb truck, and I think with the upgrades it was just as good as the F-18 at ground stuff. I'm also worried about the F-18 getting shot to pieces.

>>10365617
The thing is, there's always the risk of some crazy Somali having survived the initial SEAD raid and jumping out from cover with a Stinger or Igla

>>10365686
Most of the old atg missiles suck against piston aircraft, they need the high heat sig of a jet to get lock. Stinger could probably track a skyraider though.

>>10365368
animooted

>>10365669
Any additional upgrades aside from the 'standard' upgraded Phantom (what was it again you were flying, the Israeli Kurnass 2000 version?)

>>10365617
Yeah see I would have invested my money in a Skyraider, an Invader, and a Skyhawk as my primary aircraft. Cheap and effective.

>>10365617

To add, there is a spectrum with Close Air Support platforms- you can get an A-10, which is designed to have the living hell shot out of it and come back alive (the entire plane is a living testament to the fact that low-altitude is UNLIMITED AAA WORKS), or you can have a plane that is a gigantic, helpless, flying target, only useful when you have complete air dominance, but strikes like the hand of God with pinpoint accuracy (The ACU-130 Spectre.)

Some people contend we should buy only the latter, because in a full-scale war between equal forces, the A-10 style craft won't have a high enough kill/loss ratio to justify their existence and cost. Some army fags complain that artillery can deliver highly accurate bombardment and suppression from relative safety, and that the Air Force is jacking off too much to factor that into the CAS debate. They might have a point.

tl;dr shit nobody here will read

>>10365726
use the money you saved by buying a skyraider and trick the hell out of it. Coolant systems and all sorts of countermeasures.

>>10365737
The hell is an Invader?

>>10365510
I don't think you could derail it even if you wanted to.

That aside, though, wasn't OP initially Wild Weasel dedicated? The flying brick shitter propably isn't geared for that anymore, though...

Just read all the missions on 1d4 chan and
http://s1.zetaboards.com/PlanesAndMercs/index/

With a good budget, this would make an awesome movie/tvshow.

>>10365779
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-26_Invader

>>10365686

Well, what's good for the goose is good for the gander- if you don't hang an ECM pod and an IR countermeasures pod on your 'raider, you're Doing It Wrong.

... however, that doesn't diminish your point. Small-arms fire is still a problem even for an armored beast of an aircraft. That's why attacking ground targets is best done in numbers, with at least a full flight (four) aircraft working together, timing their strikes so they pass the target at the same time from different angles; to split up ground fire.

>>10365947
MEanwhile, in Mogadishu...

>>10365967

Could be worse.

>>10365947
Ah yes, the opposition

Predicting likely mission outcome.

>>10365984
That's probably a scene of them during the attack!

MUSHIR! MUSHIR! WHERE THE FUCK ARE MY ARE PEA JEEs!

>>10365895
I'd kit that Invader out to the point that its only worries would be direct ground fire...air threats are, of course, a different matter. Still i'd do what I could to make that thing an electronic nightmare with a dozen .50s and enough ordinance and endurance to ruin any ground pounders day.

>>10365984
>FOUR magazines taped together

Damnit, stop tempting me to go the FFL/Africa route, I can't find any decent info on FFL infantry composition.

>>10366035
>>10366035
ask /k/

>>10366060

Last time I tried asking them for info it did not go well.

>>10366014
If only I could find that pic of the africans holding a white guy hostage by pointing an RPG at him...AT POINT BLANK RANGE!

>>10366174
Found it

>>10365460
Somebody call for a bronco?

Or go Enforcer ^_^

>>10366144
Try operatorchan. They're generally less hyperactive than /k/.

>>10366314
For a second there I thought that thing had a harpoon (not the missile) launcher...

Also, dat exhaust

>>10366331
Is... is that a turret?

>>10366331
>>10366379

>>10366352
Little slow though. Give it a few for someone to respond.

>>10366379
What if I said n- It totally is a minigun strapped to the bottom of a Bronco. Not sure which one it is though.

12.7mm

>>10366379
>>10366514
[wiki]The U.S. Marine Corps OV-10 Night Observation Gunship (NOGS) program modified four OV-10As to include a turreted forward-looking infrared (FLIR) sensor and turreted 20 mm (.79 in) M197 gun slaved to the FLIR aimpoint. NOGS succeeded in Vietnam, but funds to convert more aircraft were not approved. NOGS evolved into the NOS OV-10D, which included a laser designator, but no gun. The U.S. Marine Corps lost 10 OV-10s during the Vietnam War to all causes.[/wiki]

A little aside: I'm thinking of setting up a campaign along the lines of Planes&MErcs, though with a little less RP to it (without Steve's rules, I'd probably muck it up royally). Thinking of setting it in the Ace Combat universe, prior to the events of Ace Combat 3, likely during the era when power passes over from countries to corporations. AC3 used a lot of upgraded airframes, so I wouldn't have to kitbash too many entirely new minis, I can pilfer existing maps of Strangereal, and if I'm feeling especially devious I can pull a variant of the 'true' AC3 ending.
I'm a huge geek so I'll probably try and pull some mixed-media stuff, giving the players physical information dockets with briefing DVDs, laminated images with acetate overlays, etc.

Main barrier is learning enough Flash (or possibly some sort of 3D modelling program) to create the briefing sequences, because it just wouldn't be Ace Combat without them. e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6kZq18AHNQ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU7EmwSqWKE

>>10366664
>20mm
D:

But it looks so teeeny!

I thought this was dead. Now that it's not I'm all giddy.

>>10366708
You don't happen to live in the Netherlands, do you?

Anywho, some people (me included) have been working on some RPG rules and Air War C21 modifications for our own games.

If you're interested you can look them over at http://s1.zetaboards.com/PlanesAndMercs/index/


Still WIP though...

>>10366820
Nope, UK. I was looking into setting a campaign on Fairy for gratuitous nukespam and utterly ridiculous post-stall manouvering, but making a bunch of brand new minis was pretty daunting, and putting everyone in the FAF instead of the SAF ends up with too many EVERYONE DIES missions.

Ok people i've got a bit of a challenge for you.

Running with my A26 Invader idea i'd like to see what people come up with to make such an aircraft survivable in missions such as these. I was hoping to keep this "dark" meaning no radar but if you can come up with a good reason for it i'm all ears.

I was personally thinking something along these lines.
- Delete rear turrets. Use space gained to install dedicated electronics suite.
- IR/ECM pods.
- Wing tip pods for flares/chaff
- Radar absorbent paint(not sure if this is worth it on such a big bird)
etc

Thoughts/ideas?

>>10366820

I don't need a pussy laser to be better than all planes

Sincerely

X-02 Wyvern

>>10367005
Coating a prop plane in RAM isn't going to help you much, especially as you're going to be low-and-slow. The good news is that you're more at risk from MANPADs than proper telegraph-pole-of-explosives SAMs, so if you can cram in enough ECM you can probably avoid anything that requires guidance. Hope nobody gets in a lucky shot by eye though.

>>10367005

As the F-22 has displayed radar absorbent paint isn't all its cracked up to be. It falls off in humid climates and can only reduce the signature so far.

Flying her high and circling would be a good plan to avoid the worst of the targeting problems, but a big girl like her is going to have some problems without a cleansed area to operate in

>>10366331

dat bronco.

The Yankee Air Museum used to have one, but they lost it when their WWII hangar at Willow Run airport went up in flames. Four members of the Yankee Air force pushed their B-25 Mitchell out of the hangar- alone. Just four people.

I mourn the loss of Dat Bronco.

OP: take your Phantom. Superior bomb truck AND it's more expendable.

>>10367005
I doubt RAM will do much on a bird that big with no stealth shaping aside from drastically increasing cost

Maybe get some infrared suppressors like the ones some combat helicopters have?
Not sure if possible, but might be worth looking into.

Also, get FLIR as added sensor and a LITENING/some other targetting pod to designate for friendly fast movers

this is how dogfighting works right

>>10367094
lol nice pic......
dont want to divert the topic but im just hearing now that theres a Second oil rig owned by BP spewing into the gulf......... oh you Steve what have you wrought!

>>10367005

I'm not as familiar with the A-26, but if it worked in the CAS attack role anything like an A-20, I'd say needed modifications are minimum. The rear turret is useless on that plane, in this age, but forward firepower should be picked up from multiple .50s to twin-20mms, at least, for CAS.

The big question is payload; a plane with a turboprop engine will likely be able to carry a whole B-26, much less 1.5x the payload. How can you justify the A-26, given this? Would you be open to replacing the airframe's powerplants?

And the nose-cone offers you a good place to put a radar rig; I don't see why you wouldn't take it. It's expensive as all fuck; somewhat mitigating the point of a cheap CAS aircraft; but on the other hand, giving it BVR detection/engagement ability drastically increases its survivability. No matter what fired it, an AMRAAM is an AMRAAM.

>>10367079
>>10367092
>>10367140

Yeah didn't think RAM would be worth it. Targeting pods of course, enough ECM and IR suppressors to make manpads cry, and perhaps some form of noise suppression to make those twin props a bit sneakier on the approach.

Anyone got some info on either the IR or noise suppressors out there? Otherwise i'll just resort to the wiki.

>>10367202
>A-26 with AMRAAM

Fund it!

>>10367201
Not owned by BP, not spewing oil. Just some minor company's rig that collapsed when towed.

I just checked, that's what 2 sources said.

>>10367202
I'd be up for turboprops...got any alternate aircraft in mind with such engines that are similar in styling and function to an A20/26?

>>10367284

gotcha..... got link?.....all i can reference is the Chanel 6 news during my supper

>>10367336
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE63T55Q20100430

>>10367300

Well, I have a few ideas. Liek Dis:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_R-3350

This was used to power the B-29 and was later used in the A-1 Skyraider, which certainly slung enough boom on the hardpoints for any modern job. All without the additional complexity of a turboprop, too.

The best part is, the A-26 used DAT DOUBLE WASP, an engine with similar dimensions (last time I checked,) so it should fit the airframe without much trouble. You go from 2k horses per engine to 2.7k horses per engine, a damn significant boost.

>>10367355
Crap, gave you the wrong link; that's from an accident at the end of April.

Here you go: http://www.nola.com/news/gulf-oil-spill/index.ssf/2010/06/second_gulf_oil_spill_releasin.html

Sounds like your news station is just freaking out and hoping to score ratings with hyping it up.

>>10367426
wouldnt doubt it.....heard enough of it to convince me the oil companies own the US

>>10367415
hmm yes sounds promising. That's a significant boost without having to upgrade to turboprops. And i'm guessing turbos would produce more heat than radials anyway which would make IR suppression harder.

>>10367415

Hmm. In fact, just did the math- a combat-loaded A-26 with double Duplex Cyclones would have power/weight of .19hp/lbs, as opposed to the A-1s .15hp/lbs. That'd be more then sufficient. And that's just going by the WWII "combat load," with more horsepower you can sling more boom.

>>10367415
Speaking of Skyraiders:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A2D_Skyshark

>>10367465

Didn't Russia nationalize one of the countries biggest domestic oil producers some years back?

"In Soviet Russia, the state runs YOU!"

Since the Skyraider popped up;

"I accidentially the whole tomcat, is this bad?"

>>10367520

>Max takeoff weight: 22,960 lb
>Power/mass: 0.27 hp/lb (440 W/kg)

>>10367507
Bahahaha....oh man thats quite the plane. I mean the original Skyraider was no princess but this thing looks like a monster. I'll stick with the A1

>>10367480
Nice! Yeah i'd make the switch for those babies right away. Trick now is to figure out how to make it sneaky and yet survivable.

>>10367589

Survivability will owe much to modern metallurgy; assuming you could find somebody willing to build whole new airframes. (Some people DO; you can buy a brand-new P-51, Fw-190, and Me-262 if you want.) If you're buying original birds, then the armor plate you put on the critical locations is going to be rather better then the WWII vintage stuff you'll be cutting out.

As for sneakiness; you might bother with modifying the engines with modern materials for noise reduction; but my suggestion is, just fly like a crazy motherfucker, nap-of-the-earth. Buddy of mine is a loadmaster on a Combat Shadow 130 out of Okinawa, and they do it. They've actually got one guy who sits in the nose looking out the window:

"TOO FUCKING LOW TOO FUCKING- OKAY, MISSED IT- OH SHIT LEFT LEFT LEFT- OKAY, MISSED IT- OH FUCKING FUCK TREE TREE-"

If those crazy fuckers can play F-130, you can play F-26.

>>10367589
Yeah, it's ugly as sin

>>10367763
I think it's beautiful.

>>10367753
>Nose guy freaking out

I LOL'd

>>10366708
If you're going to be doing Ace Combat style briefings, particularly around the AC3 era make sure you use the AC3 briefing music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOAOVoO1x5g

Just imagine how trolled these fucking Somalis will be when you wreck their shit with a fucking prop plane.

>>10367796

My Chair Farce buddy says that's pretty much what they do, verbatim. Depending on how F-130 the pilots are that day.

He also observes that he and the engineer are issued guns, and the pilot are not. He considers this not-so-subtle commentary on pilots.

>>10367753
Hmm yes hadn't thought about armor plating being replaced/upgraded. Good idea.

Yeah i figured there was only so much you could do to make it stealthy before you just had to fly lower than snake shit and have the reflexes of a mongoose.

Didn't know they had a position in the nose of the special 130s. That'd be a hell of a job. Tree tops would like look like they were coming right at you. You gotta have a lot of self control to do something like that and still do it adequately.

>>10367846
I wish I could listen to a voice recording of one of those flights :P

>>10367753
So like a Blackburn Buccaneer, but larger?

>>10367816
Trolled indeed.

Looking back in many of the missions so far a properly outfitted and handled Invader would have been extremely useful...and so much fun to play.

Forget screaming past that patrol boat in the south atlantic at mach 2...just come in 30ft off the deck and unload 14 50cals instead. I would have done it. And for those missions where it would have been far to hot for something as old and slow as the Invader you fly your other aircraft that you bought with all the money you saved by buying the A26

>>10367903
Sexy beast

>>10367903

YEP

>>10367896

Yeah, beyond a point, ground-pounding is just crossing your fingers and hoping the ground gunners are cross-eyed.

RE: -130s, the scariest moments my buddy have had owe mostly to the fact he's in a 40 year old airframe. He related a tale of a night flight, looking out one window at an engine when his NVGs picked up a huge thermal flare.

Now that was just because the engine blew out, but as he said, it's well known that huge thermal flares are also the first thing you see in the event of, I think he called it a "uncontrolled thrust reversal." The C-130 has a hydraulic system to turn the propeller blades in their mounts so the engines can provide reverse thrust- apparently there have been a few incidents where a failure in the hydro made the engine reverse thrust.

Just one engine. At full power. Instant flat spin. In a C-130. No recovery, no chance of peeling yourself of the wall and making it to a 'chute.

Needless to say, he shit so hard it blew through the bottom of the plane.

>>10368053
Also, dat airbrake

>>10368043

I've always thought much the same. I think the reason nobody opted to bring a cheapo Skyraider for ground-pounding missions is because slow plane are much more vulnerable to ordinary AA aimed by the mark-1 eyeball; and that's best countered by having multiple planes to split the fire.

With their low numbers, our mercs have probably been sticking to fast-movers to increase their survivability.

Still, there's been more then a few missions where they would have come in handy.

>>10368086
my butt's hurting just thinking about such a crap-inducing experience.

>>10367810
You had me utterly confused for a while there, I had no idea the US version had briefing music.

>>10368086

Hey planefag, It's me, F4 > Mig fag.

I've got some a fucking video for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAyj9uriWLA

>>10368367

Please note, They see me rollan, They hatan

They see me Riding Dirty with my tanks on.

>>10368171
If I were in a game like this i would pick up an old airframe and treat it like a ratrod, fixing it up between missions. an MFD here, a new powerplant there, maybe a FLIR pod once in a while.

>>10365895
good points there, but you do know that P-39 was not a ground pounder, VVS (the soviet Airforce) used them as pure fighters, that silly "oh they used them tankbusters due to hueg cannon" shit is just bad translation error.

Sorry just had to mention it.

The thing that has the most potential to lead to incidentals in this mission, besides the fact that they'd be bombing within a crowded city, is that in real life the pirates have about a couple HUNDRED hostages. I see the potential for dozens of them to be in one or more of the designated targets.

Also, there's the multi-national task force patrolling the waters off the coast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy_in_Somalia#Military_presence
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combined_Task_Force_150

>>10368367
Pretty sure the landing gear isn't supposed to be extended in Gerwalk mode, but pretty cool regardless.

>>10368367

Yeeeah, that video is good. Though Wings Over Vietnam is a bit too arcade-y for me; you can still clearly see at some points in that video pilots who demonstrate how thrust can be translated into manuverability; by putting it into the vertical.

The only thing I take issue with is the AIM-7s actually hitting things, though this is mostly bitter, bitter butthurt from my days playing USNF'97s Vietnam campaigns.

>VVS (the soviet Airforce) used them as pure fighters

Damn tootin they did, and they were good, too. The P-39 could move mud with the best of them, though- there's accounts from Russian P-39 pilots over at the lend-lease airforce website where they describe how the 37mm cannon glowed WITH AN AWESOME POWAH! They took out German assault boats, and even a 3,000 ton tanker with those 37mm guns.

Still, I'm happy that somebody out there respects the P-39 as the fighter plane it was, instead of "hurf durf sucked at fighting so it moved mud, durf."

>>10368757

You realize I wouldn't put catastrophic failures into a video right?


I mean, hell there are about 2-3 aim9 failures in that video alone.

The only reason they made it in is because I'm so fucking close and going so fast it doesn't matter anyway.

I'd say 25% chance missile failure on both racks.

>>10368757
Moved mud? You mean CAS, right?

Planess ain't me strongpoint.

>>10368832

Oh, uh... right. You have a point.

>25% failure both racks.

Ah, I see, Disregard, cocks, etc.

So all the flying in that video was you? If so, it looks like you've got at least a basic grasp of ACM; starting around 0:46 you make a guns-defense turn into an incoming MiG-17 that takes a snapshot on you, and then it looks like you nail him in the scissors fairly effectively.

Music selection was grand; when the video fired up and I saw that Phantom cockpit with the 70s tunes-a-rockin, I made a happyface.

If I could offer advice on the video? Try and use more clips like the opening one, where you get into some ACM with that MiG, and less of the "took a long-range missile shot, missile hits." Those are as bad as all the IL-2 videos which is 90% looking through the gunsight as somebody else gets cannon shells rammed up their ass. That's mostly boring; the manuvering leading up to the kill is what's interesting.

... of course, given the nature of games and especially against the AI, you might not get much of those awesome clips, but in that case just make a shorter video. It's worth it, I promise.

>>10368844
Just a general slang term of any Air to Ground mission and yes Close Air Support is included

>>10368844

yep, moving mud == ephusiasm for ground attack.

>>10365730

late, but, this picture is 1. awesome, and 2. exactly how I imagine an Ork Trukk looks like in action.

>>10368998

I was playing online bro :3

I've also got Wings Over Israel which also has greater resolution and the F16.

I wouldn't mind re-enacting some of these planes and merc missions.

As for the manuevering vs long range shots,

1. Range is my advanage over migs, buuuuut....I can do a ton of headon shots by dragging the turns of me and my foe farther.

2. This was against some pretty novice wing leaders and I don't think they knew what they were doing. Most of those migs were attempting to engage my close air support.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAHLEKTkvMM

enjoy some guns over vietnam.

>>10368757
>Still, I'm happy that somebody out there respects the P-39 as the fighter plane it was, instead of "hurf durf sucked at fighting so it moved mud, durf."

I think some of the crap comes from the fact that in Pacific it got really reallen beaten down by Zeroes, tbh early tactics is the blame for that "hurr we go into turning fight with this jap plane, I am sure nothing can go wrong."
I know russians loved the P-39 and when showed the P-63 Kingcobra they went batshit crazy.

>>10366271
>>10366331
>>10366418
Speaking of Broncos...

I actually had a model kit of one when I was younger.

Totally messed up the canopy.

We totally need more artwork for this. Such as the insane fucking agility of the Flanker. Or FUCK YOU I'M AN AARDVARK! Or somehow missing a fucking lake with chemical bombs.

>>10369130

>I was playing online bro :3

+10 points for you, human vs. human is where the fun and the challenge is at. Of course online can be just as bad sometimes, because quite often you get

>This was against some pretty novice wing leaders and I don't think they knew what they were doing

- a ton of noobs getting raped because they didn't keep their eyes on their 6, yeah.

>Range is my advanage over migs, buuuuut

You're correct; though that doesn't rule out more interesting fight sequences. Like that one near 2:48 where a MiG-21 spoofs your sidewinder and you- quite correctly- extend right past him and make your reverse in the vertical. Even though he (out!) climbs you, you kept your separation and waited for a shot. That was another enjoyable part of the video.

You strike me as "just some guy" who picked up this game and started playing, but I think you would understand air combat manuvering theory well if you made a quick study of it... you might find your Phantom can mix it up with MiGs better then you might think.

>guns over vietnam

fapfapfap

Man, all this talk makes me sad all over again that I can't get MiG Alley to run on my fucking laptop no matter how hard I try.

>>10369387

I'm trying to get a mig alley mod setup for my WOV.

I have MA, but it won't run :C

the F86 was here, Mig is a loser.

>>10369179

>I think some of the crap comes from the fact that in Pacific it got really reallen beaten down by Zeroes

THIS. THIS. THIS. And it applies to the P-40 as well.

Reading the accounts of those Russian aces is... ILLUMINATING. They loved the hell out of the P-40. They ran the engines at 100% power all the time to compensate for their low speed; as they said, "you can either fly it in a way that guarantees 50 engine hours, or you can fly it in a way that destroys enemy aircraft." The first thing they did with both the early P-40s and P-39s is pull out the .30-06 wing guns, leaving only the cowling .50s, and they kicked much Luftwaffe ass with it- the same planes Americans BAAAW about *to this day.* The Russians? They liked the P-40 and loved the P-39.

>>10369464

You also have to remember they were fighting a different enemy, different tactics, different terrain, etc.


Don't get me wrong, you are right about taking what it had and working with it.

But don't piss on the Pacific fighters because they had no use of it.

>>10369570

A good point; most fighting on the Eastern Front was done below 10,00 feet, where un-supercharged planes like the -39 and -40 did fine.

Though, in defense of the men of the Pacific Front, the P-40, P-39, and the Wildcat all enjoyed roughly 1:1 kill ratios against the Zero. Yes, in 1v1, the American pilot was more likely to lose by being surprised by the Zero's insane turn-rate (it's easy to forget that the P-40, and ESPECIALLY the wildcat, were actually damn good turners- it's just that the Zero was insane.) The fighting style that could let US birds operate against Zeros to their fullest ability hadn't been learned yet...

... but that was mitigated, in practice, by some DERP on the Japanese side. They didn't really train in co-operative fighting; they just dove in and broke up into a series of 1v1 melees. Hence many Japanese pilots leaving their 200 pound radios on the ground, favoring more manuverability over any ability to co-ordinate with wingmen whatsoever.

I guess I'm just butthurt over all the pop history books
"LOL MURRICANS CAN'T TURN."

>>10369688

I'm turning, I'm just doing it vertically nigga.

>>10369752

right on, brohiem.

Wings Over Vietnam guy should get a name for these threads, he posts good enough that I want to know when he's talking.

>>10369825

The idea is to change the axis of the battlefield.

You're that guy who says " fuck left and right, I want to go up and down." and all the other pilots laugh at you, but you interrupt " You misunderstand me mother fucker, I want to change the axis of the battlefield. I'm not going up and down, I'm fucking turning. YOU are the ones going up and down, Vertical is the new Horizontal! See that ocean floor below us? That is not the ground, that is a wall infront of me! So I'm just going to turn out of the way! But you can't turn so you hit that wall! "

And all the other pilots just froze, their minds had been blown, there was some mind blowing shit going on.

>>10369969

And then America Turned to the moon faster than Russia.

I wish I could find a youtube clip of the relevant scene...

Are supersonic pirhouettes actually physically possible?

>>10369969

THE ENEMY'S GATE IS DOWN

>>10369688
>>10369969
>>10369825
in the defense of everyone who failed in WW2s various air battles:
There was so much new stuff being invented, developed, applied and countered all the time that it was nearly impossible to adjust teaching methods and doctrines to always teach your people the right things.

The war essentially kicked off with noone even knowing how the fuck a modern air war was going to work.

>>10370207

Right,

But we sort of derailed into modern warfare right now.

The modern air thought process is HUR DURR AMERIKUHH Can't turn.

And my argument is, WE'RE TURNING VERTICALLY.

>>10370158

I imagine if you tried it, you'd end up in a flat spin, which is never a good place to be.

>>10370298
Is there really any reliable way out of a flat spin?

>>10370198
is . . . is that an ender's game gif?
wtf?

>>10368662

VF-1 FAST packs aren't usable in an atmosphere either, not aerodynamic at all.

>Broncos

Hey, I think a bunch of these showed up in Area 88, stationed at Area 81. Unfortunately all they did was get blown up on the ground by a squad of angry East German Mig-27D mercenaries.

>>10370207

>The war essentially kicked off with noone even knowing how the fuck a modern air war was going to work.

Yeah. Plenty of people opined that dogfighting was "a thing of the past" because WWII monoplanes were "so much faster then Great War fighters that it's going to be all drive-by shooting."

Gee, where have we heard that one before? >trollface.jpg

>>10370262

>The modern air thought process is HUR DURR AMERIKUHH Can't turn.

>And my argument is, WE'RE TURNING VERTICALLY.

This pretty much typifies the above. It's amazing how people keep on making the same moronic mistakes, no matter how many wars demonstrate the error of it.

>>10370378

Depending on the airframe, occasionally. But it's pretty much the hardest thing to do, ever, short of flying backwards.

>>10370378

Try and turn it into a controlled banking dive, I guess. Maybe try and bleed off some excess speed with the flaps.

It seems to me like it's similar to a stall, except you're also yawing at a ridiculous rate. Any way to get out of a stall should get you out of the flat spin, so long as you do can do it while rotating.

>>10370158
Depends on the place. With any plane flying today, you try to do a supersonic pirouette and you'll end up in the Flat Spin of Death. If you added some puffer-ducts to you hypothetical experimental post-stall testbed, along with programming the fly-by-wire computer in what to do to get out of a flat spin (or acquire one (1) pilot, balls steel), then you could pull some truly silly post-stall manoeuvres.

>>10370378
Hitting the ground generally does the trick.

>>10370502

>Depending on the airframe, occasionally. But it's pretty much the hardest thing to do, ever, short of flying backwards.

I've done that..

I went into a full vertical push with not enough thrust because I hadn't watched the fuel gauge enough and I afterburner like its crack.


Started to stall, couldn't turn any where, hit the airbreaks, mig flew past me as I was falling down with my nose up.

switched to boresight and killed the mig.

I eventually got my nose straight, but with no fuel it was mission over.

>>10370555
>>depends on the place
>>place
PLANE. facepalm.jpg

>>10370378
depends entirely on the aircraft
some will, some wont

>>10370555
Well considering the plane was a fucking VF-0 and the pilot was a living god...

>>10370262
Gah. . I didn't get the modern part.

And 'America cannot into turn' is simply not true, and any moron who wants to tell you that a MiG-21 wasa a gunfighter just becasue it HAD a gun should l2aircraft.

OK, so some people thought for a while that guns were not longer needed. They were wrong and, guess what, every US fighter since then has a gun. And can actually turn.

Now we can discuss what TYPE of gun actually makes more sense, gatling or revolver, while we wait for op again. . .

Or express our hopes that with UCAVs, stealth and computerized ECM we will soon see dogfighting drones.

>>10370653

>Now we can discuss what TYPE of gun actually makes more sense, gatling or revolver, while we wait for op again


I can't aim for dick with cannons, I prefer firing rate.

Get me in an F86 with those 6 fucking .50 cals I AM NOW SNIPING AT MACH1.

Give me a Mirage...OH GOD I AM NOT GOOD AT THIS.

>>10370612

>Started to stall, couldn't turn any where, hit the airbreaks, mig flew past me as I was falling down with my nose up.

>switched to boresight and killed the mig.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA GLORIOUS

>>10370792

Come to think of it I wasn't impressed at the time, it was business as usual.

It was just a simple overtake by the mig, but instead of horizontal it was vertical.

>>10370825

The amusing thing is that you were stalled in the vertical, but your nose wasn't fishtailing so bad you couldn't get a boresight bead. Popping the airbrakes so you fell straight down, ass-first, is what did it.

>>10370733
On a jet fighter, you always want as high RPM as fucking possible to increase chances of actually putting rounds on target.

>>10370855

well I couldn't turn and I had a feeling some one was following me so I was like.

" well fuck, maybe if I pull my airbreaks out it'll help catch me some air for a turn or something."

Instead I stalled, panicked with the throttle a little, but it did nothing.

Then mr.mig flew by, now thinking about it again, using guns in the vertical would have been pretty fucking hard so I guess I was okay.

but at the time I was like. " FUCK MASTER ALARM, NO FUEL! FUCK I CAN'T TURN, TRY THE AIRBREAKS, OH GOD I'M FALLING, *FFFFFFFFFFVROOOOOOOOO* FUCKING MIG! *BZZZZUUUUUURRRR SHWOOOOSH BOOOOM!*

>>10370900
Which is why you have to consider the gatling's spin-up time and the HUGE number of rounds it actually spits out after it's spun-up.
vs.
A revolver cannon's faster reaction time and slightly higher accuracy. But sends FAR fewer rounds downrange.

>>10370900

Really?..Interesting.


Speaking of guns, you know what I hate?

Getting out of the cockpit of one aircraft and getting in another. Then going to your guns and its like FFFUCK, THE GUN IS MOUNTED ON THE LEFT SIDE, MY ROUNDS MISSED!

>>10371044

Well, I guess then you need to identify the purpose of the weapon. Deliberate, carefully aimed shots with the rotary cannon, or Defensive, reaction-based shots from the revolving cannon.

>>10371044
Surely by now all cannon should be hybrid (fire the round in the chamber right away like a rotary, RPM rises until full spin rate of gatling)?

I wonder if they are ever gonna get a hold of or fight a super plane

>>10371619

With UAV tech on the rise and the THEL, that image will be a reality soon I am sure.

>>10371587

Depends on if my country decides to replace guns with THELs

>>10371619
There's the old proposal to mount a mini-THEL in a F-35, replacing the lift-fan with a genny.

>>10371693
>>10371673

Tactical High Energy Laser mind.

That reminds me,

Any one got any news on that hilarious propaganda tech story about Plasma and russian jets?

>>10371765
The plasma stealth tech? I remember reading something about that.

Yah I remember that
Just to spice up the thread plane ladys

I've head of modifying the drag coefficient of wings for hypersonic manoeuvring using plasma, but stealth? Surely the big honking beacon in IR would offset any possible gains from a precisely tuned plasma envelope diverting one specific wavelength of radar.

Just a comment on the F-4 phantom video, if you used your engines like that (yes, I watch the %power numbers) in real life, you'd have flamed out.

Also, giddy like a schoolgirl at new planes and mercs!

>>10371984

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiTCPoIufjc


There is so much USA hate in the comments its hilarious.

The part that pushes the lollercoaster over the edge is the RedAlert theme playing in the background.

So you know this is a realiable source and not some circlejerk amv by a spoiled kid who hates his peers cause they don't suck his dick.

Autosage Page 7

>>10371044
When you select guns in a modern fighter with a gatling system the gun spins up so when you initiate a fire order it is already at max rpm.

>>10372066

I am very Liberal with my afterburners.

Infact when ever I get hit 70% of the time my engines are the first to go :D

>>10372099
Can't believe I missed athread. Mind you it has been a while.

>>10372249

yeah, it has. Looks like it's about time to start using my account on your forum.