bump for help

>>13833556

Well, you know how scorpion actually works rather than being an idiot, so I guess that's a good start.

If you go Miya Herald pick up a weapon skill. Better safe than sorry when bandits attack or when someone inevitably picks a fight. Your position SHOULD keep you safe but not everyone is going to avoid fighting you because of it.

Hmm...pondering a couple of disadvatages for teh character. Would 'True Love' and 'Dark Secret' work well together for someone who is in love with a commoner?

also stealth bump.

>>13834581
Both of those seem to work, though it should be noticed that doubling up on disadvantages (Fascination and Compulsion for the same addiction, for example) will often give GMs the impression that you're going for a munchkin build.

Samurai love for those of a lower station is relatively common, though kept secret. It's less something extremely damning than something that would never be discussed in good company. On the other hand, having a child with a peasant or a geisha tends to be something much more dangerous...

>>13834581
True Love yes.
Dark Secret, no.
The secret should, ideally, be something you have already done, or that your family did. Now, if you have taken this commoner into your house (especially as a Miya) and have produced offspring, then definitely. Or if you have passed your lover off as someone of higher station.

I strongly suggest against playing a member of an Imperial family, the difference in rank and duties may grate heavily upon the rest of the group. Unless they are your attendants.

As for Scorpion, they have, as per Way of the Scorpion, allowed commoners, especially Geisha, to become Samurai of their clan, if they prove cunning and capable enough. A Dark secret that you were born a peasant, but were elevated after you killed the (incompetent) Scorpion, who's position you now hold, could be fun. Keep in mind, the Scorpion keep a bunch of idiots around in their clan, just to give others reason to underestimate them.

>>13834662

Ah, ok. I thought it was worse, socially than that. I'll scrap the Dark Secret part.

I'm leaning toward Miya Herald at the moment. Any suggestions either character creation or RP-wise?

>>13834705
Always remember, an Imperial character is of higher social standing than a commiserate character from a great clan. Imperial > Great Clan > Minor Clan > Ronin, with about the same level of difference between sets.. Ronin possibly removed just a little more from Minor clan, unless they are in a respected Otokodate.

As a Shisa (Herald) your duties are primarily to spread good news and gifts from the throne. Politely ignore a lot of distasteful things, when they become too blatant, quietly and privately correct the person, as a Miya, this is usually done with respect and consideration.
Your social standing is worth a lot, no propper Rokugani would raise hand against you, but at the same time, you must remain above petty clan politics. Imperials must always have their eyes on the big picture. In the case of Shisa, that big picture is a Happy and tranquil empire where everyone loves the person on the throne.

>>13834705
Ask the GM if they're willing to share the basic premise of their campaign.

If the PCs are magistrates, investing a few points into in Investigation (searching stuff, questioning people), Lore: Heraldry (identifying people), Lore: Law (knowing laws, identifying wanted criminals), and Knives (magistrates are usually provided with a jitte) tend to be good.
Outside of that, as a courtier, Courtier and Etiquette are key. Watch out for anyone in court, but be especially cautious around Scorpion and Crane clan courtiers. The Miya are an Imperial family, so they get more respect than most clans would, but all low level characters tend to be used as pawns in political games by other clans fairly often.

>>13834802
>>13834852

I see. Stay above the politicing of the houses but try and keep everyone happy if I can. Keep some skill with blades just in case. And above all, keep the Emperor an all associated with him looking good. I've heard that although not combat focused, the game does not shy away from it.

>>13834694

So an imperial may cause issues? That is a rather interesting idea for a scorpion character...

>>13835074
How well an imperial would fit in strongly depends on the basic scenario you have set up.
In a magistrate campaign, integrating an Imperial in is fairly easy. In a clan-centric campaign, not so much.

>>13835126

As far as I am aware the game is not going to be clan specific. I know they have bitched to me before about thier insane (Person who hunts mahou users, name eludes me)

>>13835205
Kuroiban (Scorpion), Witch Hunter (Crab), Inquisitor (Phoenix) ???

If you go with Scorpion, make sure you keep this story (and the lessons from it) in mind when you play.

If you were the DM of a L5R game and were planning on making a Spider/Shadowlands campaign, would you tell the players before they made their characters, or would you just throw it in later to catch them off guard?

Just wondering, cause one adventure I've seen made sure to point out that none of the pre-made characters had any skill in Shadowlands Knowledge and setting it up like a political campaign before the proper horror started in the second act.

Is this standard behavior, or do the DM tend to warn players beforehand?

>>13838050
I normally give all of my players a brief description of what the campaign is going to focus.

Courts, wars, shadowlands, etc, etc.

Because the first time I sic'd a surprise mahotsukai encounter on my fellows (Courtier, duelist, shugenja) they were all torn apart.

And while it's fun for the GM to see the players writhe and suffer, it's not good for group cohesion.

I'm going to play an Isawa with an interest in Maho and Oni, is this a good idea?

>>13838289
That would depend a lot on the nature and extent of that interest.

>>13838503
Study, he wants to know more.... But I don't think I like him.

I have a game coming up, and I'm kinda stuck picking a character I want to play.

All I know about the game is that we'll be playing before the second day of Thunder, the DM dislikes that for some reason.

>>13838556
Well, what kind of character would you like to play as?

>>13838604
I'm not sure, I was thinking that I don't want to play a courtier. I know me, I'll say something bad or make a mistake. I kinda want to play a monk. That might be interesting.

I was thinking a Togashi with a Hida mother, because that'd be awesome. Maybe have a crab-like outlook on life?

And then I thought I'd like to play an Asako Henshin. An unfortunate youth who struggles to understand and can't sit still. Seems kinda fidgety and has a bit of a temper.

If you're playing a Togashi, remember that you're a monk and what that means.
You have shaved your head and renounced everything from your former life, so that you may find enlightenment unburdened. That's universal, no matter which order you join.

So the question of being Crab-like isn't as important as asking, "How do I behave when I no longer wish to be a Crab?"

Henshin, however, will have to wait until they have an actual school to play with. That's not going to be soon.

>>13838939
What? But uh... They're in the book the GM gave me to look over for making a character.

Hm... Maybe I have this monk thing all wrong then....

>>13837867

Witch Hunter, I believe.

I've talked to another player and though not entirely combat based, it is a game with a fair amount of combat, though not against fellow clans that often, more against things that would harm the empire. I THINK a Miya Herald would not fit in too badly there, as they have the job, in additon to others, of helping the empire act together and fostering harmony within it. Bandits, Oni and the Spider clan all wish to create disharmony and distrust within the empire, and they are supposed to, in fluff, be skilled with that wakizashi they carry.

>>13838954
Then you're not playing 4th edition, and you should petition your GM for an edition change.

>>13839043
Oh! Is there something wrong with third edition?

Miya Heralds are glorified paperboys. They even have a dainty little pony in their Outfit to substitute for a bicycle or scooter.

Search your heart. You know it to be true.

>>13839143

They are more than just that. But yeah, delivering papers is also kinda their thing.

>>13839172
But they're the best around, no one delivers news faster.

>>13839192

And if bandits get in the way they take a blade to the chest.

>>13839361
No one would attack a Miya. NO ONE, it's like looking at the crane or talking to a scorpion. YOU DON'T DO THAT, or else you get raped for eternity and in the after life.

>>13839424

Really? It said in thier description that they are skilled in weapons in case they meet people or bandits that are unreasonable or monsters.

I'd imagine bandits with no respect for the Emperor might attack them. And the spider clan probebly takes any chance it can to kill/corrupt servants of the Emperor.

Funny, I feel that 'duty at any cost' pretty accurately describes ninja. But I get what you mean, a lot of people are retarded and play NEEEEENJAAAAA!

>>13839080
NUMEROUS things.

There is a reason there are no L5R edition wars and that the new edition was generally accepted with open arms.

>>13839545

Yeah, Ninja's really should have social invisability and if they know you are a ninja you are doing it wrong.

>>13839686
>Ninja's
You mean ninja.

>Ninja
I WANT TO BE THE NEXT HOKAGE!!!
I hate you anime club, bane of my existance!!

>>13839821

Is ninja the plural of ninja? Huh, didn't know that.

>>13839844
Yeah, those are not ninja, they are shujenja who wear their pajamas all day.

>>13839844
>first thought on hearing ninja is NARUTOHHHHHHHHH
how old are you and what the fuck am I reading

>>13839868
The plural of all Japanese words is the same as the singular.

>>13839885

Ah, I see. Learn something new every day. Cool.

Also, is there any way to get a Katana that doesn't if you don't start with one? The books gives it a price of 'not for sale' and Imperial Characters don't have a unique weapon to get through advantages either.

>>13839874
Naruto is like, the only Ninja anime or something.

>>13839952
Ask your lord for one. That's pretty much how all equipment acquisition for non-peasant, non-ronin, and non-monk characters works in L5R.

Otherwise if your school starting outfit has "any one weapon" then select a katana as your weapon.

>>13840099

I see. Yeah 'ask your lord' really seems to be how much stuff is gained, especially with the fact that they don't actually give you all that much money to start with if you want to buy armour or weapons.

>>13840139
Technically buying armor and weapons is insulting your lord, implying he can't provide for you.

Yeah, L5R's honor is a really screwed up system.

>>13840159

...right. Don't buy your own weapons and armour, insulting to lord.

I can understand it but Stealth being a low skill does make me a little sad. Means I'll loose honour every time I act as a scout. Still, it's the least likely to get me in trouble of low skills.

>>13840193
Stealth is actually a situational low skill, I believe the description specifies that scouting is cool and not dishonorable.

>>13840205

Huh, you are right. Sneaking is fine. Cool, that will help,

>>13840159
No. Buying armour and weapons for someone else is insulting and dishonourable.

Buying for yourself is prudent and not bothering your lord with trivial matters like how to utilise the resources given to you. (that's all your stuff, by the way)

If there are duty related items you need and can't acquire directly, you can ask one of your lord's higher status advisors or treasurer for permission, (if it's something you might not be allowed) or simply tell a merchant in your lord's province(s) that you need X. (something more reasonable)
The merchant will be keeping inventory, so there won't be any confusion ... you just might be called in if you took something expensive as though it were a cheap blanket.

Outside your clan's provinces, you'll have to actually pay for shit in the way we normally think of, though it's still some shameful stuff to try to talk a merchant into a lower price - you'd have to learn commerce for that. (which is only ever honourable if you're someone's wife & running their house)

>>13841050

I see...

Now I am a little confused about which is which but oh well.

Can courtiers with weapon skills handle themselves in a fight well? They don't get school advantages but they don't seem to have any penalty for weilding weapons.

There are other times when stealth is not a low skill, though it's not covered in the core rules. For instance, when your lord is at court and you must unobtrusively bring him news; you could walk right in, interrupt the social harmony of your betters & let everyone know what you are doing - or you could skirt around the edge of the room to where your lord is sitting, whisper to his personal servant, (who will inform him) and leave via the same way.

Courtiers are not barred from learning to use a weapon, but at the same time, they're expected to be as skilled in their chosen profession as any other courtier.
So the answer is "yes, but ..." or "no, except when ..."

Think on this - the bow and the katana are the two most respected weapons in Rokugan, and each has a thousand years of tradition and art surrounding their use. Being good at either is commended, being exceptional at either is respected, and being good at your duty is honoured.

For a bushi, duty means being skilled with a weapon.
For a courtier, duty means being skilled with words.
Both courtiers and bushi are samurai, which means honour and culture - Bushido, and being more than just being a weapon of the battlefield or the court.

>>13841196

I see. So they can function well enough with weapons if need be but don't try and make it thier focus. Thier area is words.

>>13841196
A problem that comes up with courtiers and weapons is if you're good at fighting, you're gonna be expected to fight at some point.

Courtiers challenged to a duel can use a second to fight for them with zero repercussions to their honor (assuming they don't lose the duel, of course), hell, its even expected that they do. But a courtier who has a reputation for being a decent swordsman and uses a second may not take a shot to his honor, but will certainly take a shot to his reputation and social standing.

>>13841290

Ah, I see. Duels in this case is not so much a worry, as the Courtier is a Miya Herald. I'm more worried about 'Suddenly, Spider clan and bandits'

Still, that is most certainly not something I had thought of.

>>13841331
On one hand, you could easily justify weapon skill in that Miya Heralds travel a lot, and thus maybe picked up some skill defending themselves on the road.

On the other, they're Imperials, meaning if they're traveling on official business they're more than likely to have a detachment from the Imperial Legions escorting them around, and thus don't need to defend themselves.

>>13841093
At low levels courtiers tend to make passable archers as Reflexes is a good buy to raise their Air Ring because the other Air trait Awareness is THE key courtier trait. Then Rank 3 happens and they are totally outclassed. The simple action attacks that bushi schools get at Rank 3/4 are game changers. Courtiers only have the make a bunch of raises for an extra attack and without school support they are going to have trouble doing it. One thing all courtiers can do in a fight is spend two Void to lend another PC a single void for an action. This frees up the Bushi's void for raising their TN to be Hit or to soak 10 wounds. I once played a yojimbo to a Bayushi Courtier and she constantly fed me Void that way and it was delicious.

Finally it is considered pretty uncouth to slaughter unarmed courtiers "observing" a battle. Most of the time courtiers/shugenja will be captured and ransomed back to their clan.

>>13841363

I see. I sorta figured that Miya heralds traveled light rather than with troops of soldiers. Guess I was wrong, I am very new to this.

>>13841331
>>13841363
Also the Miya are known as one of the more pacifistic families. An armed Miya will raise a few eyebrows, not necessarily in a bad way just in "thats unusual" way.

>>13841290
>>13841331
>>13841363
>>13841377
As archers, they have a 'free' simple action to retreat from melee each round. If they're also on a horse, or have a reasonable water ring, it's possible to prevent a standard bushi from getting a hit in and still pepper off a few arrows while your yojimbo (or party) deals with the rest of whoever you're facing.

Not to mention, this is based on two rings with traits that are good for courtiers - awareness and perception. Picking up on social and sensory cues, respectively.

>>13841443
An unarmed miya will see more than a few eyebrows raised in their direction while travelling along imperial highways. These roads are patrolled by magistrates and the legions, but that doesn't mean it's safe to leave with a horse and a prayer.

>>13841492
Who would dare interfere with the Emperor's Blessing? Your implication is dire indeed.

But seriously most don't carry more than their Wakizashi. Attacking an Imperial is something even bandits are loath to do, sure they may hit a nice easy target today, but tomorrow the Imperial Legions are going to burn down the forest they live in and string them all up by their intestines. Riding with the Miya or Imperial Mon raised up on your back banner is almost like having a force field up.

>>13841697

I see. Still a bit worried about Spider clan, as they are apparently going to feature prominantly. Still good to know even bandits are loathe to attack a Miya.

>>13841744
For the most part the Spider are going to be like higher grade Bandits. They do not want to bring the Legions down on their heads and are smarter than stock bandits. They are more likely to try and arrange it so you look bad.

>>13841829

I see. So they are going to act less like Cobra than I expected.

>>13841867
Villains in L5R do not act like Megatron or Cobra unless they are the most recent incarnation of Iuchiban. The Spider ultimately want to subvert the Empire and corrupt it to serve Fu-Leng. If they start dicking around with the Imperial families directly they will get the full attention of the Empire and they won't be able to withstand the sheer numbers thrown at them. They'd rather corrupt you and try and get you to join them than just outright kill you.

>>13841920

I see. More subtle evil infiltrators than rampaging mahou users. Makes sence. They are stil anathema of what the Miya want, though it's not their place to fight them.

When buying weapons for any character, the default is usually a katana. Because of the special void point rule regarding katanas, it's easily the best weapon in the game.

That being said, other weapons are fun as hell.
For a courtier, a war fan has the advantage of actually being something you can carry around without looking suspicious. Drawing your katana generally alerts everyone that something is going down, and drawing it during court will generally make you look like a hothead unless you're challenged to a duel.

As someone mentioned before, missile weapons such as a bow are good if you're a courtier, since you will likely have high reflexes. In my last game as a Doji Courtier, I used throwing knives. Much less efficient, but entertaining as hell. A note if you plan on buying arrows or knives: consider getting poor quality ones, the standard quality arrows have a high price for the intention of taking raises for damage. If you're not doing that, you'll be fine with poor quality arrows.

>>13843006
>Because of the special void point rule regarding katanas, it's easily the best weapon in the game.

Spending a void point to be able to almost catch up to the damage output of Heavy Weapons does not make it "easily the best weapon in the game."

>>13843038
Shut up you furry

>>13843038
Strength 2 wielding a Katana, spending one Void: 6k3, avg. 26.54
Strength 2 wielding a Tetsubo: Not even possible.

Strength 3 wielding a Katana, spending one Void: 7k3, avg 28.21
Strength 3 wielding a Tetsubo: 3k3, avg 18.33

Strength 4 wielding a Katana, spending one Void: 8k3, avg 29.64
Strength 4 wielding an Ono: 4k4, avg 24.44

Nope. Katana is the best weapon in the game.

The average damage of the Ono, the most damaging heavy weapon, doesn't pass the average damage of the Katana until Strength 7. That doesn't mean other weapons aren't fun or enjoyable, or that other weapons don't have specific utility uses, such as ignoring carapace or disarming people. It's just the the Katana is statistically better.

>>13841920

Since when is Iuchiban Cobra Commander?

>>13843350
>implying a Nodachi or Tetsubo doesn't do more most of the time, unless you spend a VP for a total of 1k0 more damage than either (ignoring the Rank 3 Kenjutsu mastery, which puts the Tetsubo slightly behind the Nodachi)

Also, are you aware of the official, mathed-out averages chart on the AEG forums?

>>13843350
If you spend a Void.

Which means you don't have it to spend on other things.

>>13844425
Actually, I did use the AEG averages chart for that.

I was referencing the weapon damages for 3ER, not 4E, since it seems the OP's GM is using 3ER. In 4E, other weapons were improved quite a bit. The tetsubo and nodachi were both brought up to 3k3, and were 0k3 and 4k2 respectively in 3ER.

In 3ER, the katana is king. I never had a character mainly use a katana because I enjoyed the novelty factor of other weapons, but I still admit the katana is the most power weapon on average. 4E made other weapons much more viable, which is one of it's many improvements over 3E.

>>13844448
This is hardly a problem since the damage you do with a katana will usually put people out for good.

>>13843350

Katanas WITH VOID SPENT are comparable, yes, however the overall gain from spending Void here is rather insignificant. You will do superior damage to many other weapons when you spend that Void, yes, but you're draining a valuable resource by doing so.

Incidentally, a Nodachi outclasses the Katana in every way imaginable. A Katana normally deals 3k2, 4k3 with expenditure of Void. Assume a smart player, with Kenjutsu 3, so the Katana now deals 4k2/5k3. A Nodachi, without needing any Void powering it, deals 4k3 all the ti-oh wait, there's a simple Advantage that can boost that to 5k3, Large, which is inexpensive if you're a dedicated damage-dealer. The same applies for a Hida Bushi with a Tetsubo. Katanas are good, if you're in a campaign where Void is rarely ever needed for anything else, but there are other weapons that cleanly outclass them. The advantage of a Katana is that you will have yours with you most of the time, it won't look like you're preparing for war or spoiling for a fight. It's also the best Samurai weapon in most cases, and probably the best mainhand weapon for those schools that rely on dual-wielding.

>>13844548
So you've killed the one guy.

Shame about the other three also attacking you, really.

>>13844548

Oh, nevermind then, they did change a lot of the weapon damage values...but I'm unsure why anyone would play 3e or 3rd Revised instead of 4th, 4th improved on pretty much everything.

>>13844548

If this is 3rd, don't forget to take a War Fan in your offhand, because there really is no reason not to benefit from free TNtbH bonuses.

My haiku-slinging Bayushi Bushi with the well-dressed pet monkey has somehow managed to do more harm to his enemies with a thrown wakizashi than anything else in his arsenal. Even if it isn't as damaging as his Nodachi, it always seems to incapacitate the biggest enemy on the field or turn the tide of the battle.

Also, I've been to AEG forums, and the Dragon fans are absolutely buttdevestated that the Mirumoto is no longer unquestioned King of Bushi Schools. Making other weapons Katana-tier or better was mean enough, but they nerfed the School itself to be on par with the others, and the Yoritomo are actually slightly stronger than the champions of the Dragon in the new edition.

If you're playing a Courtier and want a weapon...take a bow, and get a bodyguard.

>>13844579
Hopefully the rest of your party will be there to back you up. If you got into a fight, alone, with four well-armed bushi, you're going to need more help than an extra void point.

>>13844587
3E has more schools available. That's about the only advantage it has, an even then, these schools will likely be updated for 4E relatively soon.

>>13844641
Mirumoto Bushi was the most blatantly overpowered school in 3E. It wasn't unusual for those bastards to get up to 4 attacks per round without taking any raises, with a maximum of 9 at Rank 5. At least it's not 1E Kakita Artisan.

>>13844641
I initially misread that as the monkey being the one throwing the wakizashi.
Sort of like the Lion-trained warcats and the Unicorn War Dogs, the Bayushi and their wakizashi-throwing monkeys. Makes perfect sense.

>>13844852
>1e Kakita Artisan

That is by far the least threatening name ever. Can you explain what horrors they unleashed?

>>13844936
I'm guessing lots of duel rape.

>>13844936
Way of the Crane was written by Ree Soesbee, the most notorious example of a writer favoring the Crane, and included her own self-insert character. (To be fair, Bayushi Yojiro was originally the character of the original head writer, but Doji Shizue had ridiculous bullshit like having a good Kolat Lion ninja as a boyfriend and managing to turn Akodo Kage into a good guy through the power of her honor. Seriously.)

Anyway, the Rank 3 Kakita Artisan is easily the most powerful school every known to Rokugan. It has different abilities depending on your specific skill, but nearly all of them are broken as hell. I'm typing them up as we speak, as if I don't quote them word for word, you might believe that I'm just bullshitting you.

Rank 3 Acrobat:
"Rank three acrobats are among the most agile people in the Empire. Their movements are blindingly fast, and they have the ability to perceive threats in their peripheral vision. Because of this, an acrobat can instinctively move to correct their position or balance. If the acrobat chooses a Full Defense and selects a target to defend themselves against, they cannot be hit by any targeted weapons or spells from that individual. This maya requires a skill roll each round the character declares their Full Defense maneuver."

Only against one person seems like a glaring flaw, but it blocks all attacks. Including magic, because being an acrobat apparently means you can outmaneuver the kami themselves. Even with the "one opponent" restriction, these guys are damn powerful bodyguards. Screw the Crane Kenshinzen, why the hell doesn't the Emperor have a squad of Rank 3 Acrobats protecting him 24/7? Combine with the Ancestral Yari of the Daidoji, a weapon that has the ability, "Can only be attacked by a single opponent at once." to have an unstoppable bushi.

>>13845116
Seems perfectly balanced to me. After all, the arts are the true path towards greatness.

And the Crane are the best at arts after all.

>>13845116
Rank 2 Dancer:
"At this rank, if the dancer makes a successful contested roll of their Agility + Dancing versus the viewer's Willpower, they have mesmerized the viewers. Someone who has been mesmerized can break free of the dance by winning the contested roll. A dancer must continue to make these contested roll. A dancer must continue to make these contested rolls with his audience every three minutes. Someone who has been mesmerized is not "frozen" nor ignorant of their surroundings. If attacked, they will respond. However, they will ignore and forget anything which occurs (save their memory of the dancer and his dance) and does not directly affect them. Therefore, if a dancer mesmerizes the daimyo's guards, someone could slip past them, steal something from them, (with a successful Agility check) or discuss something in their presence, all without the guards' knowledge. And the guards won't even remember they were there."

The Kakita Dancer, an indispensable part of any Crane army. Need to sneak past the guards? No need for any of those useless Shosuro Shinobi, or even the Daidoji Harriers. Just send in a dancer and sneak everyone else past, because dancing has the awesome power of making people turn retarded. For extra fun, the other techniques of the dancer make him a master of Mizu-do, so he can still fight hand-to-hand as well as monks. Well, against anyone except for the Acrobat.

>>13845277

The worst thing there is that the Dancer will win against pretty much anyone as they are using their speciality.

>>13845277

Ikebana Rank 3:
"A master of flower arranging has the ability to warp luck around himself, gathering fortune and changing the odds of probability. This ability has two possible applications: beneficial or detrimental, based on the ikebani's choice of luck or unluck. Either effect requires a successful skill roll (Intelligence + Ikebana at a TN of 25).
Once the ikebana Artisan has successfully performed their art (an act which requires five minutes of concentration), they have gained one reroll. This reroll may be used at any time, on any individual in the ikebana's sight, to force the reroll of a single action. Thus, the ikebani can choose to reroll a failed roll performed by himself or one of his companions, or he can force an opponent to reroll a successful action before it can take place.
An ikebana Artisan can "hold" this reroll for up to one full day after he has performed the initial arrangement."

Your Dancer needs to make contested rolls every three minutes, so how can you guarantee that the enemy guards stay stupefied for so long? The Ikebana Master. There's no restriction on the amount of Ikebana he can make, so long as he has materials. This is strictly better than the Luck ability, you can force Unluck on anyone else as well! If I were the Crane Champion, I would have these guys backing up any major army in a campaign. Spend a whole day before the battle making ikebana, be unstoppable the next. How the hell did the Crane lose to the Crab during the Clan War, anyway?

>>13845351

...wow...that's crazy.

Who needs void recovery from sleep, let me just make luck tokens instead.

>>13845351
Jester Rank 3:
"Upon reaching Rank 3 in his school, the Jester has become skilled enough to pull an onlooker into his act. Anytime the Jester is making a public performance (at the Imperial Court, during a festival, etc), he may target someone in the audience. The character targeted is on the receiving end of the Jester's wit. If the Jester defeats his opponent in a contested Intelligence roll, the victim permanently loses a number of Honor points equal to the Jester's School Rank. The Jester may never target the same person twice in less than six months."

Ah, yes, the Jester, the weakest of the Kakita Artisans. It's easy to dismiss the awesome power of the Jester just because it doesn't make you invincible, turn people stupid, or make you the Fortune of Dice. "This is just a lame Omoidasu." you might think. But unlike the Lion bards, the Kakita Jester doesn't affect Glory, but Honor. Yes, being insulted by a Kakita Jester is so powerful that it will actually change your character's behavior. A three point drop of honor isn't terrible, but this is assuming you encounter only one. In multiples, four Jesters drop you a single Rank of honor, seven Jesters drop you two ranks. A large army of seventeen of these bastards could turn a Rank 5 bushi into the bane of the Empire, but I like to imagine that these beasts stick to packs of around ten or so, roaming the courts of Rokugan, forcing samurai into seppuku left and right.

>>13845483
Musician Rank 3:
"The final rank a musician can achieve confers the power to enchant listerens to such an extent that they will cease all activity and listen to the musician for as long as she chooses to play. Use of this power calls for a contested roll versus the listener's Willpower. If the roll is successful, the listener will cease activity and listen to the music, oblivious to all that occurs around them. If the listener is attacked, moved or roughly shaken, they are immediately freed of all further effect of the song, and cannot be targeted with this ability again for 24 hours. This ability is not targeted, and affects all listeners within earshot."

Great, this is the Rank 2 Dancer ability, just with only one contested roll and affecting everyone within earshot. It's not targeted, so any other school's techniques that stop targeted abilities don't do shit here. Did I mention that Rank 2 Musician allows them to command animals, and the Rank 1 ability creates an anti-spell aura? The most difficult thing about this entry was trying to determine which of these abilities was the stupidest, but the Rank 3 wins out because it makes the Dancer useless. Good thing the Dancer has expert Mizu-do abilities to fall back on.

>>13845483
Oh my God, its like some samurai horror story. Like Aliens, except with better clothes and manners.

>>13845565
And now we move onto the pants-on-head retarded schools, the ones that make the earlier ones seem tame and balanced by comparison.

Acting Rank 3:
"At this rank, the dramatist has gained the ability to physically alter their entire body, so that the dramatist can assume the form of animals. The forms which the actor chooses to become may not exceed the mass of a heavy war horse, and no items (including clothes or weapons) change with the Artisan."

"May not exceed the mass of a heavy war horse." is a running joke in my playgroup.
"Quick, Doji Hoturi needs our help! Kakita-san, transform into a horse!"
I once ran a L5R/Paranoia joke campaign where my players needed to find their own food. Every fish they caught was a Rank 3 Kakita Artisan in disguise.

>>13845629
How did L5R go from shapeshifting theatre majors to the pretty good game it is today?

>>13845629

Wait...how...what..huh?

Also, that would be the BEST ally for a Unicorn Warrior Maiden.

"Real Women Ride Each Other!"

>>13845670
Until it turns out your faithful samurai-ko mount was just some pervy samurai.

Would that be worth a Dark Secret for the actor, I wonder?

>>13845729

Dark Secret: Mount. I would love the see the GM's face when you try to get that one past him.

>>13845629
Origami Rank 3:
"At the final rank, the Artisan has the ability to create actual animals, fully alive and formed of flesh and bone. The animal may be up to the size of a heavy war horse, and has no real intellect and no magical powers. Therefore, a Ki-Rin would look like a Ki-Rin, but be unable to fly, ingnite itself, or use spell-like abilities. A giant eagle, on the other hand, would be able to fly, because a bird's flight is not a magic power. It is completely under the command of its creator, and has the ability to communicate through barks, nods, or other animal actions. It is not intelligent, and cannot read or understand complex orders. As in her Rank 1 ability, the artisan is not limited to "real" animals - creations from the character's imagination are acceptable, as are animals from myth and legend. It is loyal to its creator, and will risk itself for their well-being. These animals last a number of hours equal to the artisan's School Rank."

Some of the fish they caught were Origami, too. They look like real fish for three hours, then suddenly turn to paper into your stomach. The paper is, of course, laced with poison. Barring that, they had to watch out for the Heavy-War Horse sized origami Tyrannosaurus Rexes that roamed Rokugan, while the Kakita Artisans ruled over the Emerald Empire with an iron fist.

>>13845116
>>13845277
>>13845351
>>13845483
>>13845565
>>13845629

http://www.laeren.net/rpg/l5r/ref/school-kart.php

>>13845773
Thank you, typing these things up without bursting into laughter is hard as hell.

>>13845760
Dark Secret: Feeling a little hoarse.

>>13845770
Painting Rank 3:
"The Master Painter has gained the ability to actually travel through his paintings. After he creates a work based on a place with which he is familiar, the Master can meditate on the painting and actually step through it to the place represented by the picture. The creation of a mural of this magnitude can take as long as several weeks, and requires an Intelligence + School Rank at a TN of 30. If the mural is successful, the Artisan can step through and appear on the other side. If unsuccessfull, the picture is ruined and work must begin again. Each time the painter attempts this feat, there is a 25% chance that the painting will be ruined. The Master Painter is the only one who can journey in this way."

When Bayushi Shoju killed the last Hantei, he went through the preparation of poisoning the guards, sneaking bushi through the sewers, and hiding weapons in the palace. If only he had a Rank 3 Kakita Painter! He could have just teleported into the palace instantly! The Kolat have nothing on a Rank 3 Painter who has a network of paintings to travel where he wants at will. It's a one-way portal, too, so he only needs a painting of the destination he wants to go, even if you don't have a painting for him to exit from. The painter just suddenly materializes. Who needs assassins when you have these guys. If I were a samurai in Rokugan, I wouldn't be able to sleep in constant fear of these guys.

>>13845850
>If I were a samurai in Rokugan, I wouldn't be able to sleep in constant fear of these guys.

Change your decorations and architecture around daily. If a painting takes weeks to do, that should stymie efforts.

>>13844395

Since Diamond Edition

>>13845850
Storytelling Rank 3:
"A master Storyteller has the ability to bring characters from myth and legend to life. Characters such as Doji Nio, son of Kakita; Osano-Wo, the Fortune of Thunder; or Benten, the patroness of romantic love, can all be created in semi-sentient physical form. Such "spirits" are not the original characters, of course - they are merely the Storytellers own chi, which has created a constructed being who has certain traits which are attributed to the character. These creatures, if they can be called that, have no intelligence of their own aside from the mythical knowledge of their characters and the direction of the storyteller. A construct of Osano-Wo might be asked to stand and defend the storyteller, for example, but it cannot woo a woman or cast spells, because those aren't part of Osano-Wo's mythical characteristics. A Storyteller can only have one character active at any given time, and must maintain total concentration or the character will vanish and the maya will end. At no time can the construct be out of the Artisan's sight. If the construct is ever killed or destroyed, the Artisan immediately drops to the "Down" wound rank."

>>13845937

...I summon one of the greatest storytellers, whos skill eclipses my own. He summons a warrior much greater than anything you can beat.

Or just sommun the warrior.

>>13845956
"Typical constructs will require an Intelligence + Storytelling roll at a TN of 20, but more obscure characters or characters with a great deal of personality may require a higher TN. Players and GMs should peruse the lore of Rokugan as presented in the various clan books and the basic rule book, and decide on statistics for certain constructs which the storyteller chooses to call upon fairly often - an incarnation of love, for example, or for deceit. A word of warning is required however - the only Artisan bold enough to attempt to bring forth the First Children of the Sun was driven mad and torn to pieces by the power he attempted to channel. Some things are better left alone."

The Storyteller, without a doubt, the most powerful of the Kakita Artisans. You can summon legendary heroes, you can summon the Emperor, you can summon FORTUNES. It would be amusing to summon a character's ancestor and command them to commit seppuku, it would be amusing to summon Hida Kisada to do your laundry. But there are even more absurdly powerful uses for this.
Summoning other Legendary Artisans.

>>13845958
I deleted the last post because the description for Rank 3 storytelling was so damn long that it needed to be separated into two posts.

Anyway, fuck 1E Kakita Artisans.

>>13845956
"I summon the best geisha ever. Ooh yeah, Kakita Michi isn't crying himself to sleep tonight."

And then it turns out the geisha is actually a Rank 3 Actor?

>>13845988
It turns out that the sushi you had for dinner is a Rank 3 Kakita Actor.

>>13845965

You could summon an ememy's ansestor and have hi beat up his decendent. That would make a lot of Bushi shit themselves.

>>13845770
oh my god, this is funny as hell, keep posting.

>>13846006
Good thing there's a pack of Rank 3 Jesters nearby to dishonor you to seppuku so you can free him.

Wow.

I can just see Fu Leng being curbstompted by such potent artistic techniques.

>>13846017
Summon that enemy's grandmother, proceed to have sex. Convince enemy that she was the real person, you've carried off time travel and now you're the enemy's grandfather.

>>13846057

Summon the Emperor, have him walk into a room and ask someone to commit Sepuku. Who is going to say no to the emperor?

>>13845850
>If I were a samurai in Rokugan, I wouldn't be able to sleep in constant fear of these guys.

Can't sleep, Painters will eat me...

>>13846096
Another Emperor summoned by a rival artisan?

Well, it now makes sense why the Emperor and the Crane are so close..

>>13846096
I prefer summoning a copy of your opponent, siccing it to attack. Now proceed to repeat "stop hitting yourself!"

>>13846305
Why do that when you can summon the Sun to beat someone down for you?

>>13846334
If you can't summon the Kami, you probably can't summon Lady Sun. Unless you mean the second Sun, Hida Yakamo, who can be summoned. Summoning the kami might work if you summon another storyteller that then summons Lady Sun.

>>13846357
But what if that summoner can't summon Lady Sun? Can it summon another summoner to summon Her?

>>13846634
At that point you just summon an Legendary Origami master to make a replica of Lady Sun, with a mass that does not exceed a heavy warhorse.

>>13846664
Who turns out to be an Actor.

>>13845116
>>13845116
>>13845277
>>13845277
>>13845351
>>13845483
>>13845565
>>13845629
>>13845770
>>13845850
>>13845850
>>13845956
>>13845956
>>13845965

Motherfucking Kakita Artisans.
This explains how Rokugan hasn't been crushed by gaijin for a thousand years.

>>13846721
Eta, you best be joking. Everybody knows the Tortoise keep Rokugan safe from those gaijin.

>this thread

>>13839885
Please explain this to AEG. They don't just into grammar.

>>13846882
That's okay, because Rokugan isn't Japan. It's a combination of other Asian cultures, like...um...er...

>>13846822
>that image

>>13845670
Real women ride Togashi with centipede tattoos ...

>>13845956
>but it cannot woo a woman or cast spells, because those aren't part of Osano-Wo's mythical characteristics
>cannot woo a woman

The hell he can't, where do you think that bastard offspring of his came from?

>>13846910
Bit of Mongolia, tiny bit of China, some of the family inheritance rituals are more like those used in Korea.

So, is this why S. Carman has such a virulent dislike for Soesbee? I remember he had some rather choice words to say about her.

>Storyteller
>most powerful form of Kakita Artisan, which was the most broken School in 1e

Wasn't Doji Shizue, Ree's personal RPG character, a Kakita Artisan and Storyteller?

>>13845670
>"Real Women Ride Each Other!"
>implying all Utaku are lesbians
>implying my Shiba isn't happily married to one

>>13847242

Yes, and yes.
I'm pretty sure the system bent over backward just for the Storyteller character to fit in.

>>13847270
I didn't know the Phoenix were open to same-sex marriage.

Newfag who never got to play 1e here. What was broken about the Kakita Artisans?

is their a kuni witch hunter school in 4th ed?

>>13847314
Try reading the thread, its been explained.

>>13847314
Read the thread, starting from here.
Broken as hell.
>>13845116

>>13847324

Their Shugenja hunt witches. They don't have a bushi school that specifically does that, yet, but it might come out as a Path or extra School soon.

>>13845116
>Doji Shizue had ridiculous bullshit like having a good Kolat Lion ninja as a boyfriend and managing to turn Akodo Kage into a good guy through the power of her honor. Seriously.
Wait, this is canon?

>>13847330
>>13847338
Okay then I'll just...guh...gah...I...what...

*splutters with rage*

WHAT THE FUCK I THOUGHT 1E WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE BEST OF L5R

Archive this stuff, it's too hilarious not to.

Now I want to play a L5R game where you are playing a group of characters with this skillset and the goal of taking over everything.

>>13847640
I ran a game where the premise was basically:
"The Emperor has been kidnapped by artisans. Are you a bad enough samurai to rescue the Emperor?"

>>13847485
1E has some unbalanced schools, but for the most part, a superior flavor and simple mechanics. Really, the biggest problem was that the quality of books different depending on the writers, ranging from fucking awesome (Merchant's Guide to Rokugan) to completely ridiculous (Way of the Crane).

>>13847755

Some things definitely changed for the better in later editions, though. Female bushi not having to cross-dress and be chaste little maidens? The return of the Hare Clan? Fuck yeah, to both of those.

Let's see the most creative use /tg/ can come up with for use of 1E Kakita Artisan abilities.

I am rather appreciative of that, given that I do so enjoy my 4e Hare bushi. My dream is for him to Rider Kick somebody off of a horse with his Rank 2 technique.

>>13847899
Rank 3 Kakita actor can transform into a bear to deal damage, then into a falcon for movement.

Can Rank 2 Kakita Musician's animal commanding ability command a Rank 3 Kakita Actor that's transformed?

>Rank 3 origami master.
>Make a selection of monkeys that are dressed like well known high ranking members of rokugan society
>Let them loose in a city
>????
>Profit

Not entirely sure what the use for this would be, other than being a dick of course

Crane Clan siege tactics.

First, my Rank3 Ikebana artisans prepare for the assault by spending the previous day preparing ikebana, and support the front line of Rank 3 Acrobats defending Rank 3 Musicians and Rank 3 Dancers that distract the enemy. Rank 3 Actors turn into a squirrels and memorize a room inside the enemy daimyo's castle, describing the room in detail for a Rank 3 Painter to teleport in and open the gates. A killer pack of trained Rank 3 Jesters riding man-eating Rank 3 Origami bears shames anyone who attempts to resist into suicide, while Rank 3 Storytellers summon the Emperor to pronounce an official edict handing over the castle to the Crane.

Wow, these guys are more menacing than the Shadowlands and bloodspeakers combined.

Just hearing about the Kakita Artisans makes my stomach hurt.

Bump. This is pretty awesome, why don't we have L5R threads more often?

Hello, pardon me, but who do I ask to enroll in the kitsuki school?

Yorimoto Bushi!

I don't want no trouble!

Hida Bushi here!

I killed fiddy Oni!

They bit off my shins!

>>13850693
We trade quality for quantity. I've seen a L5R thread that lasted 3 days. Also seems to be less people playing/running games so less to discuss.

>>13851548
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYV4z8dZozo

>>13852582
>quality for quantity

L5R: a bizarro world where Japanese influence does not make one weeaboo, 4th edition is awesome, and roleplaying threads don't immediately devolve into something more appropriate to /d/.

>look for Kakita Artisans in 4E
>nope
>check 3E

Well, they've actually been made to actually gain bonuses on their skill of choice (rather than obscene powers), and do it for glory (rather than obscene power). If the 1E Kakita Artisan school were to be incorporated into 4E/3E as is, for NPCs only, of course, can anyone think of some good Rank 4 or 5 techniques?

>>13853569

No, because it fundamentally doesn't work with the system. It reads like a fan-made school, magic works by nicely asking the spirits to do things for you, either through long priestly training or by offering up blood to the corrupted kansen, the sort of thing Kakita Artisans do is just downright impossible.

Bump.

The strength of the Bayushi Bushi school lies in the shenanigans it can do with high initiative. While it's true that it's not the ONLY high-initiative school, the other one (Kakita Bushi) kinda gets shoehorned into using one specific strategy, and is generally not very good as a skirmisher.

>>13847270
We already knew Utaku weren't all lesbians, because we know at least some of them enjoy the horse cock.

>>13854658
It doesn't even say how the artisan powers work, except "Your XXX is so powerful that it has XXX effect." It assumes that acting that changes your physical form is completely normal in Rokugan.

>>13856278
By the gods. . . What would that mean if someone invented Mimes.

>>13857381
Kakita Mime Rank 3 can create an invisible box as a simple action with walls that have the hardness of diamond and reflect all spells.

These invisible boxes can be thrown for damage rolled and kept equal to the Mime's Void ring.

1E schools in general tended to be more than a little unbalanced, though the Kakita Artisan is the most obvious example. The Way of the Crane as a whole is largely bizarre and difficult to believe, and not in the interesting, in-game perspective strangeness of the other Way of books. Hearing the Scorpion tell claim that they masterminded most of the plots in the Empire and the philosophy of the Kolat is one thing, hearing about the Kakita artisans trapping an entire invading army into a picture book is just dumb.

Still, as a whole, 1E had some great storytelling in their source books.

bump

Do the Togashi/Asako monks learn kiho as well as having tattoos?

It's an option for your GM to say yes / no to.
Though it's worth noting this has been clarified by the rules team - page 261 has the correct information for ring restrictions.

>> Non-Brotherhood characters who may be eligible to purchase Kiho (see the sidebar Kiho and Non-Brotherhood Kiho) use only their Ring to determine if they may purchase a Kiho.

If you do use it, this can make Togashi quite powerful.

God damn, I would kill for a chance to play 4e (or fuck, play L5R again at all).

Anyone know of any open games?