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“Meanwhile, Oedipodionidês, long an exile far

From his father’s shores, had slipped, thieflike, into Aonia’s

Wastelands, already brooding about the kingship (“a bad

bargain!” and groaning at how the year drags on, its wheeling

constellations stalled. One obsessive question wracks

the man night and day: When will he see his brother, humbled,

step down from the throne, find himself master of Thebes and all

her might? He’d gladly trade his life for that bright dawn!

One minute he moans at his exile’s slow tedium; the next,

astride winds of power, he pictures his brother already

deposed, himself enthroned. Anxious hope absorbs him,

eating up present joy with prayers for the distant future.

At length, he settles on making his fearless way to the towns

of Inachus, the fields of Danaë, to sunless Mycenae, swathed

in gloom.

(Did a Fury, acting as guide, so direct him?

Or a chance fork in the road? Or did immutable Atropos

Call him that way?)

- Book I, Statius’ Thebaid
Translation by Jane Wilson Joyce

---

LESCHES’ NOTES

Seven Against Thebes Quest is a spin-off quest related to the series of Trojan War Quests that were created first by Homer, and then hijacked by yours truly last year (to mixed results). This quest is set in Mythic Greece – a time of brazen helms and spearpoints, of demigods and Olympians, and occurs approximately twenty years prior to the events of Trojan War Quest. We will be playing as the father of the TWQ and TWQ:DS’ main characters (Nikandros and Deianira) – the legendary Hippomedon Aristomachides of Argos, near the peak of his physical ability and fame. Please note – no prior experience in the other quests or knowledge of Mythic Greece will be necessary to play this quest – this quest is meant to stand alone as a complete and self-limiting story. Unlike his children, as one of the prominent Hellenic princes of the Mythic Era, Hippomedon is already well-known in the Peloponnese as one of the prime enforcers of the Kingdom of Argos.

His actions during the upcoming events are quite important – not just to his compatriots as they struggle against the Thebans and their allies, but also for his future family. Gods, goddesses and spinners alike will be watching his actions with great interest, and unforeseen consequences are a certainty…

In a departure from my prior efforts, this quest will feature a somewhat experimental musical element – these thematic selections can be safely ignored for those who would like a “purer” experience.

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VOTING REQUIREMENTS

One-post ID votes will be ignored, unless they back-link their previous posts and claim them for identification.
Players must “register” by posting within the thread within 48 hours of thread creation; only “registered” posters will have valid votes.

Players who miss initial “registration” window may choose to provide six lines of original poetry in Homeric style OR an original TWQ meme of high quality to register. Please note that players can choose to register at any time during the thread!

I reserve the right to call upon suspicious voters to verify themselves in a manner I deem fit.
----

Optional Reading:

Trojan War Quest #1: https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/2023/5579585/
Trojan War Quest #2: https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/2023/5610431/
Trojan War Quest #2: Nostos: https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/2023/5742360/
Trojan War Quest #3: https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/2023/5827930/

Trojan War Quest: Deianira’s Sidestory #1: https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/2023/5644134/
Trojan War Quest: Deianira's Sidestory #2: https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/2023/5687242/
Trojan War Quest: Deianira's Sidestory #2.1: https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/2023/5725902

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4B5VcoaS9s

You are Hippomedon Aristomachides, nephew of King Adrastus of Argos, and like other men descended from old King Talaus - you are a giant. Where smaller men struggle in their frailty – you are strong. Where smaller men collapse in fatigue – you stride forward, an inexhaustible titan, fearing nothing. Between your size, strength and endurance, you scatter commoner soldiers upon the field of battle like a wolf might scatter a flock of chickens – and you take great pleasure in doing so. When you take the field, terror follows in your wake – when you enter the halls of the Argive Royal Palace, respect and gratitude rest invisibly upon your massive shoulders; the mantle of your uncle’s favor. Your frame is heavy with muscle, and your flowing hair and beard is thick, lustrous and black. Even at thirty summers old, you never tire of the wondering comments or the mixture of fear and awe on the faces of your lessers – the momentary panic of smaller men as you draw near never fails to amuse you.

>Hippomedon possesses the “Giant” trait! He gains +4 to his STR and to his STR cap (20->24) and +4 to his CON and his CON cap (20->24)

Currently, you stand astride your chariot in full panoplia, pulled by four of your finest horses, and beside you in the car - your trusted lieutenant and second in command, Argyros. Together, you bounce down the muddy paths leading away from your prince’s estates. A comfortable silence rests between you - you’ve known Argyros for well over ten years, and there is no need for idle chatter. He is the rare commoner Hellene with a cool head on his shoulders, with resolve, wits, and loyalty to boot – he’s saved your life on a number of occasions, and you’ve repaid the favor to him countless times. He's a man of average commoner height, with close-cropped brown beard, piercing blue eyes, and a sturdy, athletic build. Behind you marches your Inachian Honorguard, fifty Argive soldiers - veterans all – that you have hand-selected for their valor upon the battlefield, and equipped for battle at no small personal expense. They lope after your chariot in an effortless jog, despite the burden of their arms and armor – as you well know, superior conditioning is the mark of any professional fighting force.

>Hippomedon commands the Inachian Honorguard! This loyal squadron of commoner spearmen is well-seasoned in warfare and well-equipped to boot – they are Tier 3 troops, and their equipment is a cut above most commoner squadrons.

>Second In Command: Argyros is an experienced campaigner who is utterly devoted to you. He can be trusted to command the men in your stead but is a commoner in every other sense. When he is independently commanding your troops, they receive a +3 bonus in combat and another die. His bonus (but not the die) adds to yours when you directly command.

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The vaulted domain of Ουρανος above is endless blue – the morning is hot and pleasant both, as you and your men make excellent progress toward Argos, and the palace of your uncle, King Adrastus. You travel with haste, for news of a marriage at the Royal Palace has only just reached your ears, and such an union can mean only one thing:

War.

But you shake the thought from your mind for now - to each side, the passing fields and rolling hills of Hellas are a verdant tumult of life. The buzz of insects and cries of birds are constant; the boughs of olive trees and cypress perfume the air richly. The gods have blessed the lands of the Argolid richly – and why shouldn’t they? The men of Argos are the most deserving of all Hellenes of such things. The city of Argos floats atop rich fields of wheat and valleys filled to the brim with fat cattle; tens of thousands of Argives and slaves work the fields by day and return to the city by night. In return and to honor the gods, the men of the Argolid have built one of the finest settlements in Hellas, nestled between the hills Larissa and Aspis – the city and her people are particularly beloved by ox-eyed Hera Αργεια, wife of Zeus herself. The Argives themselves are the best of the Hellenes - they are a pious folk who keep and honor oaths, especially marital vows, and Hera’s love for your people is returned tenfold to her – a great temple of her worship adorns Larissa, and countless smaller shrines dot the city. As for material wealth, the teeming hordes of Mycenae may claim that as the residents of the capital of Hellas, they are the richest and most cultured – but they forget that gold is the lesser currency of the realm. None can match the Argives for honor and nobility, for patriotism and loyalty – and these riches cannot be stolen by thieves or raiders.

>Hippomedon possesses the “Argive” regional alignment trait! He gains a +3 to his CHA and +3 to his WILL.

It is your duty, your honor, your privilege, and your fierce pleasure to shelter the boundless wealth of Argos from all those who covet it.

And as you well know – the covetous are many.

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The thought triggers a mental reflex - you dutifully calculate your warfighting ability as you ride; you are well-rested and fresh, as is your chariot’s team of four thoroughbreds; gifts from your uncle’s stables. Your honorguard is well-fed and in high spirits – their arms and armor well-maintained. Your own panoplia have been expertly constructed to fit you and you alone – few others would be able to don your bronze, let alone move about with speed and grace. In short, you and your band of warriors are at the peak of their combat ability – you nod to yourself in approval. Your shield – a yellow-gold disc of beaten bronze, is strapped to the car of the chariot before you, as is your helm – you’ve removed it, given the heat, but you are always careful to keep your arms and armor close about, even when within the Argolid. Your spears rest comfortably in their bracing clip in the chariot; your sword is tightly bound to your belt. You breathe deeply – Helios Ηλεκτωρ shines down on you from above, and all is well.

>Hippomedon has the “Dutiful” paternal trait – beyond the narrative effects, he gains an extra STAT point per level-up.

>Hippomedon is armed with “Royal Quality” bronze spear (1d5+STR+SKILL damage), bronze sword (1d5+STR+SKILL), and bronze panoplia (+3 armor bonus, in addition to his natural CON bonus).
Catching your own bearded reflection in your shield, you take a brief moment reflect upon your life so far:

>okay, /qst/ - this quest will be a TIGHTER narrative and this means that we will be proceeding with a NARROWER chargen than the initial TWQ chargen. All versions of Hippomedon are dangerous men, and physically capable – but which version of Hippomedon would you like to play as? Please find complete builds for each version of Hippomedon at this link: https://rentry.org/2xeavbv7

>Given that this may very well be the most important vote in the quest, this vote will close in 48 hours. Please note: Hippomedon will likely gain 2-3 level-ups in this quest, and therefore he can evolve significantly from this starting point.

>You are Hippomedon, the soldier, and know that you are one of the most dangerous men alive in Hellas. Very few opponents are skilled or gifted enough to face you in combat and expect to survive the encounter. Additionally, you are talented in athletics, and do well in command – you have been educated in strategy and tactics. You find your tongue perfectly serviceable in social pursuits, but you know that your tongue is not particularly skilled - you do your best talking with the tip of your spear. Pure killing ability and battlefield tactics are emphasized in this build.

>You are Hippomedon, the vaunter – you know that you are feared in athletic contests, and that you are a significant threat on the battlefield. However, you are most dangerous in the halls of the Royal Palace – many enemies you have disarmed and disoriented by winged words alone. Your true talents lie in the self-making of myth – when you achieve, all learn of it! Beyond this, kings and princes attend to your words carefully – and you are only too happy to educate them about what is best. Still, you must tread carefully in combat – there are men who are your superior in combat-training, and you have no talent in generalship. This build is nearly as persuasive as Odysseus, is a legitimate threat on the battlefield as a combatant, but is a mediocre general and of average intelligence.

>You are Hippomedon, the armorer, craftsman, and inquisitive mind. You have trained yourself in all manner of physical manufacture – ships, weapons, armor and more – given time and the appropriate resources, construction of all these things and more is possible. You have dabbled in tactics and strategy, in methods of applying natural charm, and in combat training as well, although you’re no athlete. As a generalist, you are typically capable, but true greatness in any domain may be out of your reach. This version of Hippomedon is a near-genius, capable in social pursuits, but is underpowered in the physical realms. A build like this would open many doors in the late quest – if you’re lucky to survive that long.

>cont

>You are Hippomedon, the augur, poet and musician. Your giant size belies your interest in matters beyond typical material interest – of the divine, of prophecy, and of the subtler mortal arts of song and poetry. Additionally, you have contributed to any number of formal speeches and addresses that your uncle, King Adrastus, as delivered – you are a trained rhetor as well. This version of Hippomedon is a social tour-de-force – a rival to many kings in terms of noble presence and natural authority. Alas – you have mostly neglected the physical training that is expected of an Argive prince, and while you are vastly superior to any commoner soldier, there are many Argive nobleman who are your superior in the realm of personal combat. Taking the field yourself can be extremely dangerous, given your average reflexes and constitution, and less-than-stellar technique. This version of Hippomedon is a man out of time – a dreamer with only one foot in his current warlike age. Many such men are doomed to ignominious death, but a rare few may exceed expectations, and step into legend.

>WRITE-IN – Enterprising anons may choose to build their own version of Hippomedon or suggest a charbuild that has an alternate focus, and I will attempt to bring that vision to fruition. Custom traits may also be suggested – within reason!

>>5934989
Hail Noble Lesches, who crosses the River Lethe without drinking from it, preserving the memories of Heroes beyond death!

>You are Hippomedon, the Soldier, ...

I contend that Kyriakos Grizzly can only be the descendant of our own great line, & thus are Nikandros & Hippomedon before him the progenitors of being "Full-Pilled." Rather than stones, he throws iron plates.

>>5934991
Good to see you back.

>You are Hippomedon, the augur, poet and musician.

>>5934977
What the Styx is this? I legit checked out the last thread today lamenting how such an amazing quest died due to sheer bad luck, miscommunication, and depression/anger. Very happy to see your return and I hope all our mental health has recovered from last time. Welcome back you and your writing were missed. All the same, some of us have not fully recovered.

>You are Hippomedon, the soldier, and know that you are one of the most dangerous men alive in Hellas. Very few opponents are skilled or gifted enough to face you in combat and expect to survive the encounter. Additionally, you are talented in athletics, and do well in command – you have been educated in strategy and tactics. You find your tongue perfectly serviceable in social pursuits, but you know that your tongue is not particularly skilled - you do your best talking with the tip of your spear.


If we don't die like bastards again then we may change the BAD END.

>"Perhaps, it is as you say, Andros - that prophecies can be both true and infallible, and yet not insurmountable to a man of dedication and insight. Anaisthesia may yet learn to hunt, if you choose to train him."

>>5934989
>>You are Hippomedon, the vaunter
This one makes the most sense to me. Capaneus is the only guy who should be bigger and stronger than Hippomedon anyway. Well maybe not bigger, but that guy was the purest combat build that ever existed. It fits my headcanon that despite being dour, Hippomedon has his charm. I mean, he bagged a total babe of notable descent for a wife after all.

Also welcome back, noble orator.

Also since we love yapping and I remember in a certain previous thread, there was talk of the giant trait being upgradable with a choice between strength and constitution being the upgraded stat. Would those paths be called "Gigantic" and "Titanic" respectively? Cause that sounds cool. Nevermind the fact that titans and gigantes both were foes of the gods. Also fun fact, gigas is the singular of gigantes. Or maybe I have it backwards. Did anyone ask this question already? I forget.

>>5935050

Don’t worry, Cap would be bigger from a height/STR/CON perspective even compared to Hippomedon the Soldier.

>bagged a total babe of notable descent

Euanippe is super attractive, yes, but I think players will find out what her family’s rep is about Argos proper

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>>5935063
>Cap would be bigger from a height/STR/CON perspective even compared to Hippomedon the Soldier.
Gods above. No wonder it took what it did to get rid of him.

>but I think players will find out what her family’s rep is about Argos proper
How interesting. There's always a plot thickening amongst the nobility.

>>5935056

Actually the upgrade traits are called Dynamos and Iskuros - better to keep their effects secret for now though.

>>5935069

And yes, Capaneus has at least one Giant upgrade trait :)

>>5934989
>>You are Hippomedon, the vaunter – you know that you are feared in athletic contests, and that you are a significant threat on the battlefield. However, you are most dangerous in the halls of the Royal Palace – many enemies you have disarmed and disoriented by winged words alone. Your true talents lie in the self-making of myth – when you achieve, all learn of it! Beyond this, kings and princes attend to your words carefully – and you are only too happy to educate them about what is best. Still, you must tread carefully in combat – there are men who are your superior in combat-training, and you have no talent in generalship

>>5935073
Both familiar words whose deeper meaning evades me. Some day the time of elucidation will come, I will just have to be patient. I look forward to Cappy eating an entire goat to sate his hunger. With all the decorum of one to match!

>>5934983
Registering!

>>5934988
>You are Hippomedon, the armorer, craftsman, and inquisitive mind.

>>5934991
>>You are Hippomedon, the augur, poet and musician. Your giant size belies your interest in matters beyond typical material interest – of the divine, of prophecy, and of the subtler mortal arts of song and poetry. Additionally, you have contributed to any number of formal speeches and addresses that your uncle, King Adrastus, as delivered – you are a trained rhetor as well. This version of Hippomedon is a social tour-de-force – a rival to many kings in terms of noble presence and natural authority. Alas – you have mostly neglected the physical training that is expected of an Argive prince, and while you are vastly superior to any commoner soldier, there are many Argive nobleman who are your superior in the realm of personal combat. Taking the field yourself can be extremely dangerous, given your average reflexes and constitution, and less-than-stellar technique.
Glad to have you back Lesches. I hope you are feeling as excited as I am!

>>5934991
>You are Hippomedon, the augur, poet and musician. Your giant size belies your interest in matters beyond typical material interest – of the divine, of prophecy, and of the subtler mortal arts of song and poetry. Additionally, you have contributed to any number of formal speeches and addresses that your uncle, King Adrastus, as delivered – you are a trained rhetor as well. This version of Hippomedon is a social tour-de-force – a rival to many kings in terms of noble presence and natural authority. Alas – you have mostly neglected the physical training that is expected of an Argive prince, and while you are vastly superior to any commoner soldier, there are many Argive nobleman who are your superior in the realm of personal combat. Taking the field yourself can be extremely dangerous, given your average reflexes and constitution, and less-than-stellar technique.

LETS GO!
Lesches is back!

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AH BUT NOW I REMEMBER, I bring spoils and goods from my travels. Behold, the random bullshit I found. A vase painting of a pet for best boy and a song displaced from history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lASQlF6T6_M

I knew I had to hold onto this link when I heard it months ago. Perfect for the Seven. What are the odds, right?

>>5935177

Oh my god, this is incredible. Thank you for bringing to my attention.

>>5935166
>>5935105
>>5935014

Happy for these votes and for everyone’s continued attention. However, having learned my lesson from TWQ, I want to be ultra clear - voting for Hippomedon the Augur is choosing to play SATQ on Hippomedon Must Die on NG++. Survival will be very difficult but this version of Hippomedon will have late gate opportunities that other builds do not. This will be a COMBAT-ORIENTED quest, and choosing to play a social-spec character may be painful.

By almighty Jove, with Soldier Hippo he'd have a +16 to throwing spears/javelin.

>>5935193

I'll change to >>5935032 in that case. I personally would be interested in trying that sort of thing, but I don't want to be responsible for our tragic demise

>>5935193
Hmm. Well tally so far is 1 for armourer, 2 for soldier, 2 for vaunter and 3 for augur.

Lesches, apart from the disclaimer that it will be difficult, I feel it will be very important for you to give advice, be clear as to what preconceptions and decisions led to Nikandros' death, and to just continue to be epic.

I relish the idea of playing on hard mode, but we all have to be on the same page so to speak. Are write-ins allowed? If a bad one is gaining traction, do you let it even though it is objectively terrible? I just really really want anons and QM to be happy and understand each other. My apologies for the length and coherence, but as I said before, I just want everyone to be happy and this to be the start of a long and amazing adventure

>>5934991
>You are Hippomedon, the augur, poet and musician.
Registering, I guess. I've never read any of these quests, and the last time I played any quest remotely like this was Fortuna's (peace be upon him) Commentarii de Bello Sinica

>>5935193
I was really happy when it found it and realized I have been saying "oikos" correctly entirely by mistake this entire time. I've been waiting to post it for ages. I had to resist just dropping it in the general hoping everyone'd see it.

>>5935197
And like the Thunderer, that's one HELL of an arm. Oh man. Makes me wonder what renowned javelinists like Agamemnon would have. Has to be close, right? Despite the gap in sheer strength. Scary as hell to think that we're gonna be dealing with people like that in this war. Come to think of it, Agamemnon should be a young man at this point right? Or a child? Something like that.

>>5935050
Dang it, I guess I should change my vote too. Even though the difference in their defensive rolls is only two points from the combat training trait, you never really know when 2 points is all that stands between you and a pointy stick heading for your face.

>>5934989
>You are Hippomedon, the soldier
Apologies for muddying the waters further.

>>5935201

>Are write-ins allowed?

Yes, definitely.

>if a bad one is gaining traction, do you let it even though it is objectively terrible?

Yes. The general difficulty of this quest is unchanged:

I will not save Hippomedon by QM fiat. I will kill Hippomedon and this quest, if the mechanics demand it. This quest is not a story - it is a game. Games can be lost if they are played poorly.

I will not prevent the players from making poor decisions.

It is entirely upon the players to think critically and survive.

HOWEVER, it is also clear that i should provide unambiguous warnings during votes - some players are clearly unwilling or unable to think objectively about risks. Additionally, I will always address player questions openly; what Hippomedon knows, I will share freely. That being said, there are surprises in this quest that I won’t spoil.

So for example - it is entirely possible that the Augur does not even survive the first thread, if he makes poor choices. The late game will look very different for the augur. Similarly, it’s highly unlikely that the Soldier will be meaningfully threatened with death until the very end of the quest, but will almost certainly miss out on various mechanics and hooks I have planned.

I’m going to say it one last time:

I killed my last MC and I’ll do it again, if necessary. That being said, let’s have fun! :D

>>5934991
>You are Hippomedon, the augur, poet and musician. Your giant size belies your interest in matters beyond typical material interest – of the divine, of prophecy, and of the subtler mortal arts of song and poetry. Additionally, you have contributed to any number of formal speeches and addresses that your uncle, King Adrastus, as delivered – you are a trained rhetor as well. This version of Hippomedon is a social tour-de-force – a rival to many kings in terms of noble presence and natural authority. Alas – you have mostly neglected the physical training that is expected of an Argive prince, and while you are vastly superior to any commoner soldier, there are many Argive nobleman who are your superior in the realm of personal combat. Taking the field yourself can be extremely dangerous, given your average reflexes and constitution, and less-than-stellar technique.

Talking good is good. Also, Auguries are fun. I have to ask, but wouldn’t Hippomedion have divine blood, like his son? I’m unsure on this.

>>5935212
Thank you for the clarification Lesches. I would suggest writing that again once the character gen vote has been finalised, just for people who don't read the thread comments.

If you have any suggestions/advice on playing to Hippomedon's strengths, please share.

>>5935214

>does he have divine blood?

Nope. He has the same distant divine ancestry that all Argives do - a heavy sprinkling of divine river god ancestry like most nobility, and a smaller contribution of “everything else”. No recent divine ancestor though.

>>5935217

>If you have any suggestions/advice on playing to Hippomedon's strengths, please share.

This is a quest with heavy combat sequences planned almost from the start - picking a char build with capable combat skills would be a good plan. The augur would be gambling with his life in almost every duel.

>>5935218
>river god ancestry
I AM SICKENED AND APPALLED

>>5935222
Could be worse, could be Oceanic...

Tally so far (friendly reminder that this first vote is longer and will close at ~5pm EST on 02/26). Anons, let me know if I am miscounting - I'm a bit rusty.

Soldier
>>5934999
>>5935032
>>5935211
>>5935200

Vaunter
>>5935081

Armorer
>>5935096

Augur
>>5935105
>>5935166
>>5935205
>>5935214

>>5935304
Hey the salty lady and her kid were okay.

>>5935308

Yes, it was my intention to write them as being brety kul to Nik since they were formerly mortals themselves. Just good luck that Nik did great on his social rolls for that encounter.

>>5935310
The Fates do so love their games. Their painful, inscrutable, vertigo inducing games.

>>5934989
>>You are Hippomedon, the vaunter – you know that you are feared in athletic contests, and that you are a significant threat on the battlefield. However, you are most dangerous in the halls of the Royal Palace – many enemies you have disarmed and disoriented by winged words alone. Your true talents lie in the self-making of myth – when you achieve, all learn of it! Beyond this, kings and princes attend to your words carefully – and you are only too happy to educate them about what is best. Still, you must tread carefully in combat – there are men who are your superior in combat-training, and you have no talent in generalship.

>>5935305
Since nobody else wants to back Armorer, I'll back Vaunter.

>>5934989
>>You are Hippomedon, the vaunter – you know that you are feared in athletic contests, and that you are a significant threat on the battlefield. However, you are most dangerous in the halls of the Royal Palace – many enemies you have disarmed and disoriented by winged words alone. Your true talents lie in the self-making of myth – when you achieve, all learn of it! Beyond this, kings and princes attend to your words carefully – and you are only too happy to educate them about what is best. Still, you must tread carefully in combat – there are men who are your superior in combat-training, and you have no talent in generalship.

>>5934989
WOOOO IT'S BACK
>You are Hippomedon, the armorer, craftsman, and inquisitive mind. You have trained yourself in all manner of physical manufacture – ships, weapons, armor and more – given time and the appropriate resources, construction of all these things and more is possible. You have dabbled in tactics and strategy, in methods of applying natural charm, and in combat training as well, although you’re no athlete. As a generalist, you are typically capable, but true greatness in any domain may be out of your reach.

However, if it should fail (and that's allowed), swap my vote to
>You are Hippomedon, the soldier

>>5935356
Don't give up yet armorbro!

>>5934989
Well, hopefully my ip stays the same.
>You are Hippomedon, the vaunter – you know that you are feared in athletic contests, and that you are a significant threat on the battlefield.

>>5935385
Honestly if we weren't going into a brief and extremely violent war deadly enough to claim the lives of men so great they would be enshrined in myth I wouldn't be so hard up for vaunter or soldier. The survivability metric is desperately needed. Which if somehow we do well enough for Nikon to get a 1-up, I will vote to CONMAX like the fattest fucking elephant the next level up we get, traits and all going into it. But that is just wishful thinking. Such distractions are beneath the stern Hippomedon. We have our own hide to worry about.

>>5935386
As long as you link back you'll be good.

>>5934989
>Hippo, the soldier

Dice mechanics still the same? Bo3 for combat but Bo2 for social with modifiers and additional or less dice dependent on context?

>>5934989
>>You are Hippomedon, the armorer, craftsman, and inquisitive mind. You have trained yourself in all manner of physical manufacture – ships, weapons, armor and more – given time and the appropriate resources, construction of all these things and more is possible. You have dabbled in tactics and strategy, in methods of applying natural charm, and in combat training as well, although you’re no athlete. As a generalist, you are typically capable, but true greatness in any domain may be out of your reach.

>>5935612

Yep, no change to core mechanics, although I have some minor additions to combat mechanics that I will likely debut. Characters with formal martial training will have a “fight offensively/neutral/defensively” option that provides mechanical bonii/malii, and I’m also preparing a mechanic for active combatants to attempt disarms rather than directly apply damage.

>>5934989
Voting for
>Hippomedon, the vaunter

And if that fails my vote goes to
>Hippomedon, the soldier

Glad to see this quest, or rather QM, back.

I'm happy to see you back, Lesches. I'm sorry that the Trojan War quest went so poorly, left a bitter taste in a lot of people's mouths. Here's to a better and more successful quest, with less retardation!

>>5934989
>You are Hippomedon, the vaunter – you know that you are feared in athletic contests, and that you are a significant threat on the battlefield. However, you are most dangerous in the halls of the Royal Palace – many enemies you have disarmed and disoriented by winged words alone. Your true talents lie in the self-making of myth – when you achieve, all learn of it! Beyond this, kings and princes attend to your words carefully – and you are only too happy to educate them about what is best. Still, you must tread carefully in combat – there are men who are your superior in combat-training, and you have no talent in generalship

Updated tally (friendly reminder that this vote will close in ~28 hours)

Soldier
>>5934999
>>5935032
>>5935211
>>5935200
>>5935404

Vaunter
>>5935081
>>5935351
>>5935356
>>5935374
>>5935386
>>5935678 (but will transfer to Soldier if Vaunter loses)
>>5935740

Armorer
>>5935383 (but will likely transfer to soldier given sparse Armorer votes)
>>5935652

Augur
>>5935105
>>5935166
>>5935205
>>5935214

---

I'm surprised and pleased to see so much variety in the votes and that we have a close race between Soldier and Vaunter!

>>5934989
>You are Hippomedon, the soldier, and know that you are one of the most dangerous men alive in Hellas. Very few opponents are skilled or gifted enough to face you in combat and expect to survive the encounter. Additionally, you are talented in athletics, and do well in command – you have been educated in strategy and tactics. You find your tongue perfectly serviceable in social pursuits, but you know that your tongue is not particularly skilled - you do your best talking with the tip of your spear. Pure killing ability and battlefield tactics are emphasized in this build.

A hero is a killer, and a greek hero is a tragic killer. To earn the glory of the gods is at days end always about a thrust of spear or sword at the fate spun by the Moirai.
Also, you can't have character development unless you live long enough to change.

With that said, I was part of the first thread of the last quest and am realizing I have missed something big. Regardless, good to see you back.

>>5934989
>You are Hippomedon, the vaunter
Sounds like fun

Taking the conditional votes into account, it now appears that we have a 7-7 tie between Soldier and Vaunter.

I’d encourage the Armorer and Augur anons to reconsider their votes at this point and perhaps determine the winning option?

>>5936157
You know it's gonna be spicy when the first vote is a bigass tie.

>>5936157
That I would.
>>5935383
>>5934991
I'd like to swap to Soldier officially. RIP Armormedon.

>>5936185

Like all QMs, I’m secretly here only for the drama and shitstorms.

>>5936210

Noted, anon, but I was already factoring your vote as Soldier. The tie is still on!

If we’re still deadlocked at 5pm EST tomorrow I’ll just roll a d2, but I would obviously prefer that the vote is decisive. The quest will begin properly once this vote concludes - I’m basically going for daily updates and with a stronger “editing” focus - I used to do 2x daily updates occasionally for Deianira’s Sidestory but that was pretty taxing and I was less efficient in those days, to boot.

>>5936216
I'll be honest, I WANT vaunter to win, but my paranoia is telling me to KILL KILL KILL BEFORE THEY KILL YOU.

>>5936216
I'll switch to soldier. Also establishing a trip for when I inevitably vote from work and need to verify it's me.

>>5936216
I will switch from Augur to Soldier.

>>5936216
I switch from Augur to Augur. Please vote Augur.

>>5936398
Hey woah buddy you can't just hard R it like that, that's our word. You can say Auguh.

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>>5936342
>KILL KILL KILL BEFORE THEY KILL YOU.

>>5936440
Thank goodness none of us have the schizophrenia trait am I right guys?

>>5934991
I am interested to see what not-Nikon looks like, so
>You are Hippomedon, the augur, poet and musician.
I actually prefer the armorer, but oh well.

Updated Tally

Soldier
>>5934999
>>5935032
>>5935211
>>5935200
>>5935404
>>5935884
>>5936210
>>5936344
>>5936383

Vaunter
>>5935081
>>5935351
>>5935374
>>5935386
>>5935678 (but will transfer to Soldier if Vaunter loses)
>>5935740
>>5936152

Armorer
>>5935652

Augur
>>5935166
>>5935205 (sadly looks like it won't happen, anon)
>>5935214
>>5936492

---

A surprising shit back towards Soldier (9-7 to Vaunter, if I'm counting right) - I may cut the voting period short if Soldier starts running away with victory here.

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>>5936157
put me down for the next vote capn
pic unrelated

>>5936598
>A surprising shit
Sneaky things they are.

>>5934989
>You are Hippomedon, the vaunter – you know that you are feared in athletic contests, and that you are a significant threat on the battlefield. However, you are most dangerous in the halls of the Royal Palace – many enemies you have disarmed and disoriented by winged words alone. Your true talents lie in the self-making of myth – when you achieve, all learn of it! Beyond this, kings and princes attend to your words carefully – and you are only too happy to educate them about what is best. Still, you must tread carefully in combat – there are men who are your superior in combat-training, and you have no talent in generalship
We already did a fighting build last time

>>5936598
>>You are Hippomedon, the vaunter – you know that you are feared in athletic contests, and that you are a significant threat on the battlefield. However, you are most dangerous in the halls of the Royal Palace – many enemies you have disarmed and disoriented by winged words alone. Your true talents lie in the self-making of myth – when you achieve, all learn of it! Beyond this, kings and princes attend to your words carefully – and you are only too happy to educate them about what is best. Still, you must tread carefully in combat – there are men who are your superior in combat-training, and you have no talent in generalship

>>5936631

Actually, Nik was surprisingly bad at personal combat - while he was very strong, he had no combat training and only an average AGI. He was really specced as a genius commander, but he never really got a chance to showcase his skills before Zeus forgive me for uttering this name - he met H*ctor.

Nikon had a +1 to hit - Hippo the Soldier will have a truly horrifying +9, IIRC, and even higher bonii are within reach given his very high AGI. Even the Hippo the Vaunter would effortlessly BTFO Nikon in a duel.

That being said, Nik is much better at petteia and generalship, and could have safely stayed on the back line while his bois mulched the enemy until his combat skills improved.

Well i can at least HOPE this quest is less cursed than the last one. Praying for you Lesches.

>>5936649
I say Nikon will be back. And he'll teach that horse-fucker a lesson. Like a phoenix from the ashes, or a revenant in the words of times yet to come. I huff so much hopium that it could kill a wildebeest and no answer or implication will change my mind.

VaunterMedon would have a +7 to hit, right? The true pants-shitting detail comes from the to-damage. With SoldierMedon having a what, +13? May the Buried One preserve what little will remain of any mangled corpses he leaves behind.

>>5936789

You have the right of it, anon - VaunterMedon would have a +7 to-hit and the same for the damage bonus, but SoldierMedon has something like a +13 for damage bonus and +9 to hit - truly horrifying. That being said, SoldierMedon is sort of a laconic duel-autist, where VaunterMedon is a pretty good fighter who is ALSO a pretty good shit-talker.

P.S. Looks like we're tied again 9-9. The Armorer/Augur anons could collectively tip the balance here, if they choose to weigh in.

>>5936805
>You are Hippomedon, the soldier, and know that you are one of the most dangerous men alive in Hellas. Very few opponents are skilled or gifted enough to face you in combat and expect to survive the encounter. Additionally, you are talented in athletics, and do well in command – you have been educated in strategy and tactics. You find your tongue perfectly serviceable in social pursuits, but you know that your tongue is not particularly skilled - you do your best talking with the tip of your spear

>>5935214
switching my vote from this to:

>You are Hippomedon, the vaunter – you know that you are feared in athletic contests, and that you are a significant threat on the battlefield. However, you are most dangerous in the halls of the Royal Palace – many enemies you have disarmed and disoriented by winged words alone. Your true talents lie in the self-making of myth – when you achieve, all learn of it! Beyond this, kings and princes attend to your words carefully – and you are only too happy to educate them about what is best. Still, you must tread carefully in combat – there are men who are your superior in combat-training, and you have no talent in generalship.

since prophecy bro probably doesn’t have a shot at winning this.

>>5934989

might have a different ID here.

>>5936866
If you do want some prophecy and serious doomer vibes we can always hang out with Amphiaraos. Amphiaraus? However it's spelled.

You are trying again. You are actually fucking trying again?!? WHY?!? After thr DISASTER that was the last one, you think this is gonna go any differently? You think the dice would favor his father any more than him?

>You are Hippomedon, the soldier, and know that you are one of the most dangerous men alive in Hellas. Very few opponents are skilled or gifted enough to face you in combat and expect to survive the encounter. Additionally, you are talented in athletics, and do well in command – you have been educated in strategy and tactics. You find your tongue perfectly serviceable in social pursuits, but you know that your tongue is not particularly skilled - you do your best talking with the tip of your spear.
I literally do NOT care. We are gonna avtually try and fucking survive this hellscape this time. Hector or not.

Looks like a narrow Soldier victory 11-10. Well done, anons! Assuming I counted correctly, the “canonical” build for Hippomedon has won!

Update will be out in the next six hours - it’s mostly already written, just gotta find the time for touch-ups

>>5936932
Can we do a funny and have a secret third child? One that smells like apples and has heat ray vision? Take that, canon!

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You gaze upon your own face dispassionately – the feral brown eyes of a predator, finely-hewn nose, and broad face. You are clearly handsome – but endless days in the training yard has made your face angular and sharp. Despite your years of military service and your record as a superior boxer, your face is generally unmarked and unscarred – you’re unbelievably quick for a man of your size, and you’ve dodged innumerable fists, spearbutts, elbows, knees and heads all seeking to damage your good looks – a scarce few have ever connected cleanly, and not with enough force to blemish permanently.

Ah, yes - you have seen many victories in the realm of athletics, and also on the battlefield – defending the hereditary domain of Talaus from threats both within and without. You have become a beloved nephew to unyielding King Adrastus, since the death of your own father, Aristomachus, and well-known in his royal court of Argos. Of course, this is partly due to the fact that Adrastus has no sons of his own; the nephews of such a man become elevated by necessity. Better than this though, you have become renowned across the Argolid as one of Argos’ great captains, a man who can thrust out his hands and tear victory away from his opponents upon the field of battle. Above all – you are known as one of the deadlist Argives to walk the face of Gaia Ευρυστερνος. As the legend of your deadliness has spread, King Adrastus has taken note. You have often silently accompanied him during discussions with rival kings – the embodiment of Argos’ strength.

>Hippomedon’s current KLEOS stat is 8! His fame is such that most Hellenes know of him and his achievements!

Satisfied with your self-assessment and the fighting condition of your men, you turn your attentions to your plan of travel. You have only just left your prince’s estates embedded within the forested swamplands of Lerna, and it’s less than two days ride to Argos proper – you plan to make extreme haste, if possible, although the muddy trails may sometimes hinder speedy travel by chariot.
Like all members of the Argive royal court, you pay close attention to the moods and whims of King Adrastus, as well as rumors and interesting news. For example, last autumn, there was a strange tale from neighboring Boeotia - some atrocity had come to light amongst the royal family of Thebes, and King Oedipus was said to have gouged out his own eyes before resigning his throne in shame. Months later, you learned from your aunt, Astynome, that the kingdom of Thebes was arranged to pass between the Theban princes, Polynices and Eteocles, on an alternating annual basis; a bizarre arrangement apparently meant to preserve comity amongst the Oedipal sons.

>cont

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Polynices is not an exiled prince, but an exiled king, no matter what the fools of Adrastus’ court are saying. The rushed marriage of Polynices to Argia, and the union between the houses of Oedipus and Adrastus can mean only one thing:

Polynices will seek the throne of Thebes with Argive spears; he has convinced your uncle to go to war against the Thebans!
Such a thing has never been done in the history of Hellas – no walled city has ever been conquered by a hostile neighbor by force of arms alone. Argos is the among the strongest of the Hellenic cities, but the sheer novelty of the situation gives you pause – any assault against the Theban walls would be a daring and dangerous enterprise. At any rate, you believe yourself to be one of the few Argives (and even fewer Hellenes) to have predicted the war between Argos and Thebes – no general call to arms has yet been made by King Adrastus, but you know your uncle’s mind – it will occur. He is not a man to change course, once his mind has been set.

You are therefore traveling to his court with all speed, to take your measure of Polynices and learn the mind of your uncle – and to advise him properly before hostilities begin.

Of course, things are never so simple in the Peloponnese.

“Lord Hippomedon – I have news!” your scout, Chabrianos, shouts breathlessly, as he navigates the trailside underbrush to your chariot. He is young, blonde, athletic for a commoner, and his face is heavily scarred along the right side – he came off badly with an encounter with a poorly-trained warhound as a boy, you are told. You patiently nod in recognition to him, as your chariot trots along – Argyros peers forward anxiously. Chabrianos gulps air for a few moments as he strides alongside you:

“Some fifty spears are wedged into the fens just four stadia up the trail! They have the look of hungry bandits, godlike Hippomedon, and equipped with ramshackle gear of foreign make.”

You sigh in irritation – you know exactly who these bandits are.

You first caught wind of them a week and a half prior – they are Dorians, probably led by one of the Heraclidae as well; the sons and grandsons of Heracles who raid down from their fiefdom in Western Thessaly. You had expected that these Dorians would range through the Argolid, gathering intelligence and leaving little sign of their passing, before returning to their hidden ships and sailing back north – ever since the High King Atreus of Mycenae defeated Hyllus, son of Heracles, some fifteen years ago, such scouting parties have been infrequently spotted around the Peloponnese. Despite the catastrophic loss, the Heraclidae have not abandoned their (outrageous) desire to rule all of the Peloponnese. As for this particular band, you presume that they are either attempting to map the swamps surrounding your corner of the Argolid, unwisely testing your reaction to their presence, or both.

>cont

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>>5937007

However, whether by design or by chance, they are now squarely lodged in your path, and they must be dealt with. As hostile foreigners, belonging to a people currently at war with Argos, it is expected that you expel or (preferably) exterminate these interlopers promptly. You request a formal report from Chabrianos and he quickly barks out additional details...

By numbers alone, the Dorians are an even match to your Inachian Honorguard – but numbers alone never dictate victory in war. You tally your advantages: you are present, Argyros is present, your men are rested, capable and well-equipped, and you appear to have the benefit of surprise. As for the opposing force, their advantages: the composition and equipment of their force is unclear, it is unclear who is in command, and you do not know their goals. Even with such deficits of information, confidence swells in your breast – you have little to fear, and your victory is assured. The only questions – how to manage the problem and how much Argive blood will be spilled. Argyros and Chabrianos look to you expectantly as you contemplate, but there's no delay - you immediately bark out orders to:

>Arrange for an ambush to maximum your chances of a swift and crushing victory. The thickly-forested swamps of Lerna provide much cover to those who know how to use it. You and your men will leave the trail and approach the Dorian camp from an oblique angle, catching them by surprise. By necessity, you will leave your chariot behind and join your prowling honorguard. However, if your ambush is spotted, your troops may be forced to fight in an awkward position or on unfavorable ground.

>Cast aside deceitful tactics and make straight for the enemy position along the trail; you and your forces are superior in equipment, experience, and no trickery is necessary to win the day. You and your men will simply the charge the enemy position in close ranks and gut them. You are one of the most dangerous men of Argos and it is highly unlikely that the enemy commander can match you. You can and will simply eviscerate them.

>Engage the enemy cautiously - rather than a speedy charge, form ranks and advance in the standard fashion. A shield wall of 25 men, and behind them, another 25 men ready to cast spears. This tried-and-true tactic tends to favor better trained forces - such as yours, and provides tactical flexibility.

>Send a messenger for parley with the enemy commander, giving up the advantage of surprise. This smacks of weakness in its own right, and may even prompt the enemy commander to slay your messenger and attack. However, it is also possible that you may expel this enemy without bloodshed. Alternately, opposing forces may choose to settle matters with a duel between commanders – men of honor prefer this to the needless deaths of their men. Whether the enemy commanders are prone to honorable conduct – you simply cannot be sure.

>WRITE-IN - something else?

>>5937016
>>Engage the enemy cautiously - rather than a speedy charge, form ranks and advance in the standard fashion. A shield wall of 25 men, and behind them, another 25 men ready to cast spears. This tried-and-true tactic tends to favor better trained forces - such as yours, and provides tactical flexibility.
GEDDAFUCKOUTTAHERE. There's always only two options when it comes to scouting forces. They're either very elite and trusted, or very disposable. If we really do have the drop on them they're probably not very smart and will meet us in combat hoping they can win. If they actually are competent and ready to counter-counter ambush us, then taking it slow behooves us.

In any case, the only thing I'm concerned about is the enemy commander. The Heraclid dynasty produces a lot of very dangerous guys. Though just as many headstrong fools.

>>5937016
>Arrange for an ambush to maximum your chances of a swift and crushing victory. The thickly-forested swamps of Lerna provide much cover to those who know how to use it. You and your men will leave the trail and approach the Dorian camp from an oblique angle, catching them by surprise. By necessity, you will leave your chariot behind and join your prowling honorguard. However, if your ambush is spotted, your troops may be forced to fight in an awkward position or on unfavorable ground.

>>5934999
>Have our honorguard sneak up on them through the trees & swamp while we boldly demand their attention upon our chariot. Unless their leader proves a capable sort, we should have no problems fighting them off on our own until our men can achieve a sudden, overwhelming victory. If they are led by a skilled warrior, he will likely default to single combat to test his mettle.

>>5937016
>Arrange for an ambush to maximum your chances of a swift and crushing victory. The thickly-forested swamps of Lerna provide much cover to those who know how to use it. You and your men will leave the trail and approach the Dorian camp from an oblique angle, catching them by surprise. By necessity, you will leave your chariot behind and join your prowling honorguard. However, if your ambush is spotted, your troops may be forced to fight in an awkward position or on unfavorable ground.

These foreigners, they’re outsiders, and they’re bandits. They won’t know the lay of the land, and they probably aren’t so disciplined or wary as to keep a too close eye on their surroundings. Our men are skilled, we should use the small and elite qualities of our contingent to our advantage. Quick question here Lesches, I just want to make sure: are they somewhat skilled in concealing their movements? I would also like to know if they have some passing familiarity with the terrain.

>>5936866
And of course my ID switched again. Amazing. This is my previous post.

>>5937075

>do the Inachian honor guard have a special terrain/stealth bonus in the swamps?

Nothing that I’ve set in stone (the IH are really just very decent Tier 3 generalists), but the ambush tactic would carry a +3 context bonus to troop tactics (in addition to Hippo and Argyros’s combined command bonus of +4 IIRC) for the reasons you mentioned, plus the element of surprise. That being said, there would be a significant combat penalty if the ambush goes bad.

Marching straight in makes this fight more of a slugfest and without the ambush gambling piece. Hippo likes his chances in a straight fight, if that didn’t come across.

>>5937016
>Send a messenger for parley with the enemy commander, giving up the advantage of surprise. This smacks of weakness in its own right, and may even prompt the enemy commander to slay your messenger and attack. However, it is also possible that you may expel this enemy without bloodshed. Alternately, opposing forces may choose to settle matters with a duel between commanders – men of honor prefer this to the needless deaths of their men. Whether the enemy commanders are prone to honorable conduct – you simply cannot be sure.
We will duel the enemy commander, as all great men must.

>>5937016
>Engage the enemy cautiously - rather than a speedy charge, form ranks and advance in the standard fashion. A shield wall of 25 men, and behind them, another 25 men ready to cast spears. This tried-and-true tactic tends to favor better trained forces - such as yours, and provides tactical flexibility.
The practical option. Besides, I don't want to risk losing forces on a shoddy dice roll.

>>5937048
+1

>>5937016

>>5937016
>Arrange for an ambush to maximum your chances of a swift and crushing victory. The thickly-forested swamps of Lerna provide much cover to those who know how to use it. You and your men will leave the trail and approach the Dorian camp from an oblique angle, catching them by surprise. By necessity, you will leave your chariot behind and join your prowling honorguard. However, if your ambush is spotted, your troops may be forced to fight in an awkward position or on unfavorable ground.

time to put our skills to good use

>>5937016
>>Arrange for an ambush to maximum your chances of a swift and crushing victory. The thickly-forested swamps of Lerna provide much cover to those who know how to use it. You and your men will leave the trail and approach the Dorian camp from an oblique angle, catching them by surprise. By necessity, you will leave your chariot behind and join your prowling honorguard. However, if your ambush is spotted, your troops may be forced to fight in an awkward position or on unfavorable ground.

>>5937016
>>5937048
Sounds fun, +1.

>>5937016
>Engage the enemy cautiously - rather than a speedy charge, form ranks and advance in the standard fashion. A shield wall of 25 men, and behind them, another 25 men ready to cast spears. This tried-and-true tactic tends to favor better trained forces - such as yours, and provides tactical flexibility.

Victory is all but assured. It's only a matter of how much time and lives will be spent in exchange for speed and glory. With the situation not being quite so dire, I would like to think that Nik's father would value his brothers in arms more highly than a little more fame and a few more hours.

Bump and 12-hour warning - this vote will close at 5pm EST.

Cautious Approach

>>5937019
>>5937255
>>5937394

Ambush!
>>5937039
>>5937075
>>5937300

Showboating+Ambush (I'm interpreting this as "Hippomedon temporarily separates from command, makes a big distraction in front while his boys sneak in from the back")
>>5937048 (one-post ID but I know it's you, anon, thanks for coming back)
>>5937259
>>5937391

Send Messenger
>>5937162

---

One-post IDs
>>5937367 (anon, give me a backlink to your registration post, if you please, or six lines of Homeric poetry or a how SATQ meme)

---

Seems like majority support for some type of ambush so far - although still up in the air whether Hippo makes a big show in the front. Mechanically, if Hippomedon makes a distraction, he will be rolling CHA against the WILL of the enemy Dorians (and commander!), and degrees of success/failure here will provide a mechanical bonus to the ensuing rolls for troop initiative and first round of combat. As a general rule, players will be always be rolling for Hippomedon specifically - when Hippomedon is in diredct command of his troops, you guys will typically be rolling for how the Inachian Honorguard performs as well.

>>5937016
>>5935025

>Engage the enemy cautiously - rather than a speedy charge, form ranks and advance in the standard fashion. A shield wall of 25 men, and behind them, another 25 men ready to cast spears. This tried-and-true tactic tends to favor better trained forces - such as yours, and provides tactical flexibility.

My strat boils down to:
Hippomedon- "You know I had to stunt on them, snipe"
Would love to throw a boulder too, but you don't just find a rock everyday.

>>5937048
+1

>>5937048
I'll change my vote (>>5937039) to support this. A giant decked in bronze screaming a challenge is hard to not get distracted by.

oh boy its another episode of 'lets spec into one thing then proceed to do everything else'
why are we doing this? there is no material gain, mechanical advantage, or roleplay consideration that i can see. its unnecessary risk for unnecessary reward. hippo is already rich and famous, he has no need for more slaves, or cool war stories. his business with his liege is no secret, so there's no need to stop the enemy from escaping. i just dont understand

bump/~4 hour warning for votes!

>>5937590
Hippomedion IS specced for this however. He’s a very goof military tactician and a monster in combat. An ambush favours using his military skill, and ambushes are much more deadly than simply walking up to the enemy. it’s likely to cause an immediate route if the bandits aren’t organized. their eyes are going to be glued on the road after all. I personally don’t care for going out alone and shouting out a challenge, since it’s basically just theatrics, and the soldier archetype only has a “serviceable” tongue (this is something more along the lines of the vaunter in my opinion) but the leader of this band is one the myraid descendants of Herakles, and they aren’t exactly known for their ability to control their emotions.

Seeing as there's been no votes for ~4 hours, I'm calling it for:

>Hippomedon creates distraction, Argyros and the lads attempt ambush.

Update shortly!

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Your orders do not surprise Argyros – you’ve demonstrated this same trick successfully numerous times in the past, and most recently two years ago, against a band of Phocians who had camped in the northern Argolid. That time, you had not actually come to blows – your presence alone and the sudden appearance of your honorguard was enough to prompt immediate surrender and escort from the Argolid – but here, violence is a near-certainty. As a giant in burnished bronze, you can’t help but draw significant amounts of attention – especially when bellowing like a frenzied bear. Your current panoplia is well-maintained and effective, but otherwise unmarked. Some men encrust their panoplia with jewels and other such things, becoming instantly-recognizable, but to be frank, you currently neither have the extreme wealth nor the inclination to decorate your bronze in this fashion. The financial expenditures required have never seemed practical, in your eyes. At any rate, anonymity serves you – the Dorians may choose to simply flee if they hear your name, and letting them escape would not be looked upon favorably in court.

Argyros and the men of the Inachian Honorguard scurry off the trail when you are three stadia distant from the Dorians - dipping into the brush alongside the swamps and fens. While not expert huntsmen, wet rucks through the marshes of Lerna are guaranteed of any military enterprise in the Argolid – they scurry through the vegetation with only minimal noise, hoping to assault the camp from behind, and quickly disappear from your field of view. As for yourself, you tie your lead horse’s reins to a cypress tree by the trail when you are still out of sight of the Dorians – your first thought was to stand astride the chariot and demand their attentions, but this would unnecessarily risk the lives of your precious steeds.

As you pass a copse of yet more cypress trees, you catch first sight of the Dorian camp – Chabrianos reported their shoddy campsite with accuracy – no sentries, no fortifications, multiple paths of entry, poorly arranged tents, and refuse scattered beyond the unmarked boundaries of their campsite; all signs of poor discipline. You catch sight of some of the Dorians immediately – rugged men with poorly-maintained gear, lounging in repose, and many with a lean look about them. If you had to guess, they’ve lingered too long in the Argolid, run short of supplies, and are now committed to the lazy and low banditry of robbing travelers until they have sufficient stock to travel to their hidden ship. Furthermore, you have reason to assume that their commander is either lost or stupid – he’s wandered quite close to your estates, and you are well-known as one of the deadliest men of the Argive royal family.

>cont

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Rolled 8, 14, 11 = 33 (3d20)

Gathering the attention of the Dorians is a straightforward matter:

“INTERLOPERS!”, you roar at the top of your lungs, beating your shield with your spear as you stride into view. ”WHAT BUSINESS HAVE YOU IN THE ARGOLID? ONE OF THE TALAIDES* DEMANDS AN ANSWER! WHICH AMONG YOU LEADS – NAME YOURSELF!”

The Dorians immediately leap to their feet and begin to scramble ineffectively into confused ranks – by your mark, they’re much too slow. You’d never tolerate such poor responsiveness in your honorguard. You’re still about twenty paces shy of commoners' javelin range as you shout – you’re not so foolish as to tempt missile fire when it can be avoided. You hear shouting in accented Hellenika from the largest tent, although you cannot make out the words, and you quickly see an imposing figure emerge – a blonde, bearded and attractive youth of your general size and build, helmless and wearing scuffed bronze. One of the Heraclidae indeed – many men of the line of Heracles share their progenitor’s uncommon size and strength. That being said, he appears young and untested – it’s highly unlikely that he is your better in combat.

As his head darts in your direction, you can read his surprise by his stance alone, although he is quick to subsequently locate his helm, arm himself, and take position before his loosely-assembling ranks.

You hear him shouting back:

“MY BUSINESS HERE IS MY OWN, ARGIVE – BE ON YOUR WAY, LEST I STRIP THE BRONZE FROM YOUR SHOULDERS! A GRANDSON OF HERACLES, GOD OF OLYMPUS, IS ABOVE SUCH REQUESTS!”

Previously, you had been irritated – but now you are angered. This fool makes casual threats on your life practically within your estates?! It’s not difficult to conjure up a stream of invective in an attempt to keep the Heraclid’s attention...

>okay, /qst/ - give me THREE rolls of dice+1d20+3 for Hippo’s distraction attempt (+1 for CHA bonus, +2 context bonus for being a heavily-armed giant in bronze). I’ll be rolling dice+3d20 for the enemy commander’s WILL – he’s got no special traits or bonii in this regard. Each degree of success here will provide a bonus to Argyros’ initiative and ambush rolls in a +1/+3/+5 schema, and may also cause the Heraclid commander to lose his cool.

Rolled 11 + 3 (1d20 + 3)

>>5937767
This is a distraction.

Rolled 3 + 3 (1d20 + 3)

>>5937767

>>5937777
Well, at the very least we passed.

>>5937777
>>5937781
>>5937782

Will wait for the last roll, but yes - at minimum, you provide a +1 distraction bonus to Argyros and the boys.

Also I forgot to include my footnote from the last post:

*”Talaides” here means “descendent of Talaus”, although I’m not trained in the classics and might have constructed this name incorrectly. Basically, Hippomedon is claiming descent from the current Argive royal line without actually specifying who he is. Maybe a classics person can chime in if they know if I did it properly...

Rolled 18 + 3 (1d20 + 3)

>>5937767

>>5937791
Clutch roll here, I’m guessing that’s probably good enough for the +5 bonus?

Rolled 20, 5, 18, 13, 15, 19, 10, 20, 19, 14 = 153 (10d20)

>>5937791

Well done, anon - 21 vs 14 - 3 degrees of success. You successfully piss off the Heraclid and provide a substantial +5 bonus to Argyros and the lads.

Now I'm going to do some public rolling to determine the first round of troop combat - faster and better for me to do this myself, especially since Hippomedon is not in direct command at the moment. Wish me luck, I'm a bit rusty.

First, I'm rolling initiative.

1st: Inachian Honorguard (+7 context bonus, +3 Argyros bonus, set against general -3 AGI malus for Tier 3 troops = +7 total)
2nd: Heraclid Scouts (General -3 AGI malus, but with additional -4 malus due to Tier mismatch - the Heraclids are Tier 1 = -7 total)

Then, I'm rolling eight die to determine attack/defense of the opening round of combat...

3-6 rolls: IH (Argyros provides an extra die)
7-9 rolls: HS.
10 roll: final roll to determine enemy commander behavior.

>>5937802
Well, your rolls are still truly bonkers, but with a 14 point boni/mali split, it doesn't really matter in this case. Wew lad.

Rolled 3, 1, 3, 2, 4, 3, 4, 1, 4, 3, 3, 2, 3 = 36 (13d4)

>>5937802

Okay, to disambiguate

Initiative: IH absolutely BTFO the Heraclid Scouts - 27 vs -2 - LMAO

Troop Combat: 26 vs 13 - IH collectively make many successful attacks against the Heraclid scouts. Given the ridiculous initiative success and Hippomedon's phenomenal distraction, I'm going to determine that all of these attacks auto-succeed.

Enemy Commander: Stands and fights.

---

Rolling to see how much damage is delivered and then I'll get started on the update - hopefully out later tonight. the Inachian Honorguard do 1d4 damage per strike. Argyros' command buff cancels the typical -3 STR malus that the IH would normally have. Typical commoner soldiers have 5 health, btw, but are effectively out of the fight if they take 3 or more damage.

>>5937812

Looks like the IH are pulling their weight here - the opening strike is taking out nearly 20% of the enemy force and impairing an additional four soldiers.

This alone would probably guarantee IH victory if this was a true slugfest... but Hippomedon is also present.

Fuckin' oath, I take it this Heraclidae is not a nobleman of his word, otherwise I would be tempted to conscript him for use against Thebes after we steamroll his band.
According to the Captcha, you can add Pugilism/Pankration to our skillset: HYYA

>>5937829
The sons of Heracles are always causing problems. Even when they're on your side.

You barely hesitate before belting out in return:

”THE GRANDSONS OF HERACLES WEREN’T ABOVE DEFEAT AT THE HANDS OF ATREUS!”

This triggers furious gesticulation on the part of the Heraclid, and before too much longer, the pair of you are hurling base insults at one another. To your surprise, the Heraclid commander is both verbally quick and has a tendency to mock your Argive accent with infuriating accuracy, proclaiming it effeminate - you get lost in the barrage yourself, as your temper rises even higher.

When the Inachian Honorguard strike, they surprise even you - they silently rise up out of inch-deep puddles and from behind thin reeds, coated in swamp muck. In Hellenic fashion, they assault the Dorian line from behind without a word, their faces curled into venomous scowls. You cover their advance by beating loudly on your shield, as you scream at the Heraclid, and you’re successful -many Dorians learn of the attack only by the spearpoints protruding from their sides and guts. Like most commoner soldiers, your honorguard has been trained to strike at the center of mass, and at weak points in the armor - better to wound gravely in a sure strike than attempt the kill and miss.

Finally, as ten or more Dorians sprawl onto the ground, gripping the dirt with their teeth, a general cry of alarm is raised - the Dorians finally react, reversing their battle line, and quickly shuffling in retreat - your honorguard trampling their wounded as they advance together. You hear Argyros shouting from rear, keeping the men aligned and in sync - ”STEP! STEP! STEP!” Argyros has clearly instructed the men to hold their spears - casting at such close range would invite the countercharge.

As for the Heraclid, he roars in rage, and for a moment, you think he’ll simply cast his spear at you with every ounce of strength that he has - but he instead whirls, turning his back to you and joining the battle line of his men. He is a deadly threat to your men - he could foul their advance, slaughtering them, and turn the tide himself!

You have only a split-second to react:

>Charge forwards as fast as you can, casting your spear at the back of the Heraclid with your full strength and skill. This practically guarantees the death of the enemy and victory, but you would lose the ability to sell him for ransom or interrogate him.

>Charge forwards and cast your spear at half-strength. While still tremendously deadly, it’s possible that the spear is turned aside by the enemy’s armor. If you connect, the man may have a slim chance at life, and therefore ransom and interrogation.

>Forgo your spearcast and charge into melee - you would all but guarantee the death of some of your honorguard, but the harsh truth is that many men would be eager to replace those lost on the battlefield. In close range, you’re absolutely certain that you could disarm the enemy commander, render him unconscious, and take him alive for ransom and questioning.

>>5938077
>Charge forwards as fast as you can, casting your spear at the back of the Heraclid with your full strength and skill. This practically guarantees the death of the enemy and victory, but you would lose the ability to sell him for ransom or interrogate him.
Using my trip to link back to my persistent ID earlier in the thread. What value does this man have, fool that he is?

>>5938077
>Charge forwards and cast your spear at half-strength. While still tremendously deadly, it’s possible that the spear is turned aside by the enemy’s armor. If you connect, the man may have a slim chance at life, and therefore ransom and interrogation.


I mean, Hippo is probably good enough to achieve this outcome, considering he’s one of the most dangerous warriors in Hellas. Might as well try.

>>5934999

>Charge forward and cast your spear at THREE-QUARTERS strength, if he dies, he dies. If not, he should make for a good ransom. Keep our momentum going after we cast the spear to enter the fray.

>>5938077
>half-strength
kek
i dont know how useful or expected his capture would be but i love seeing dice rolls

So I know swords have a penalty for engaging shields, but what is the penalty for facing an armed foe with nothing but your fists? What about just a shield? I assume daggers share the sword penalty. What is the damage value for a thrown human being?

>>5938106
Asking the real questions. We should take foes' shields and use them as discus.

>>5938092

Kek, I appreciate the effort, anon, but for full transparency:

full casting bonus for Hippomedon + 10 STR +3 Gifted Athlete and +3 martial training = +16. Hippomedon deals 1d5+16 damage on a full spearcast - he fucking deletes anything he hits.

If you connect at half-strength (so +8 bonus), there's a minimal chance that the enemy avoids damage outright, but if Hippo connects, the enemy only has a 30% chance of survival to begin with. Throwing at 75% power basically guarantees the kill anyways.

The death of the enemy commander is not in doubt - the question here is - does Hippomedon value the life of his men over potential money/information from the enemy? Ransom and intelligence can both be lucrative.

>>5938106

Unarmed penalty against spear is a hefty -6 bonus, knife only vs spear/shield is -4 bonus, sword vs spear/shield user is -2 bonus, IIRC. Shield only against spear/shield - I'd have to think about this, I suppose I'd treat it like an improvised weapon? Hasn't come up yet.

>What is the damage value for a thrown human being?

I'd convert the body into boulder-size and then use Homer's boulder-damage table, kek. So a commoner man being hurled (presumably in cannonball configuration) would probably be a medium boulder, 1d5+(1/2)STR damage?

>>5938110

>shields as discus

Sort of unwieldy, but could be done if you catch them in the head/neck edge-on. Hippomedon is a gifted athlete and could totally kill someone with a discus, though.

>>5938127
Understandable
KEK the fucking Boulder-Damage table

>>5938077
>Charge forwards as fast as you can, casting your spear at the back of the Heraclid with your full strength and skill. This practically guarantees the death of the enemy and victory, but you would lose the ability to sell him for ransom or interrogate him.
I'd rather not take chances with the honorguards' lives.
>>5938127
>Unarmed penalty against spear is a hefty -6 bonus
And here Hippo is with a +6 to unarmed combat from his traits alone. If I'm not mistaken, Hippo throws harder than even Hector. Damn, Hippo is strong, I wouldn't bet against him in a fight with even Diomedes.

>>5938151

>is there a power level disparity between the heroes of the Argo-Theban War vs the Trojan War?

You’re on the right track, anon - but I can’t say more

The Trojan war was the last great heroic conflict in Ancient Greece, and the farther you go in the past, the stronger heroes get (I’m assuming divine blood is just more present in general amongst noble lines, and stronger to boot, which explains everyone’s absurd strength). I’m not exactly certain here, but have the argonauts started or completed their journey yet?

>>5938159

I adhere as best I can to the timeline that Homer seemed to develop for his original quest - basically, the Argonauts finished their travels about fifty years before the Trojan War and about 30 years before this quest. IIRC, Heracles drops out of the Argonaut expedition to fuck around and conquer Ilion, and then several years later (less than 10 years after the Argo returns) he ascends to Olympus.

Hippomedon has met with several Argonauts, of course, but I’m not sure yet which ones might pop up in this quest.

>>5938110
>"Oh, you use the two spear style, Theban? Well I use the TEN SHIELD STYLE!"

>>5938127
That settles it, we need to find fat men and bribe them to stand next to us in the opening of every battle. The boulder table must be fed.

>>5938151
I think the higher echelons of each side can compete with the heroes from either age. I think the Trojans have a ton of heroes in the mid-range compared to the Achaeans who have a more stacked high end.

Keeping in mind that Hippomedon is one of the preeminent fighters in Greece at the time. He would sit squarely in that "high end". In terms of killing power I'd wager he's like a mix between Ajax and Diomedes. In that he's similar in strength to Ajax and somewhere just below Diomedes in speed. He'd probably be considered the second killiest Achaean after Achilles. On the flip side, The Trojan side just has a fucking LOT of dudes. Most of which are comfortably mid-tier. Excepting Memnon, Aeneas, and Hector. And I guess Paris if you are only looking at his actual skillset and not attitude.

Of course, Diomedes is PEAK all-rounder, he's not actually the fastest on his side not counting Achilles. Locrian Ajax is canonically the second swiftest Achaean.

Hippomedon is a very scary man. He'd probably survive the Trojan war with ease if no gods fucked with him. Still get his ass beat by Achilles though. I wonder if Telamon is stronger than Hippomedon. I wonder what Peleus' youthful statline is like.

>>5938159
Many of the kings and heroes of older ages seem to live for quite a bit longer than usual when they aren't killed, after all. Makes you think.

>>5938184

I basically agree with this assessment 99.9%

>>5938077
>Charge forwards and cast your spear at half-strength. While still tremendously deadly, it’s possible that the spear is turned aside by the enemy’s armor. If you connect, the man may have a slim chance at life, and therefore ransom and interrogation.

>>5938168
Iliom here meaning Thessaly, Macedonia, Asia Minor, or just Troy?

Which Olympus is the real one by the way?

>>5938245
Ilion is another name for Troy and its surrounding region. The real Olympus is in Thessaly. Which is why that centaur got fucking OBLITERATED in the 'Nira sidestory.

*Ilion

A few more questions to satisfy the 'tism:
Are the priests, oracles, & wizards of the lands of mixed noble & common blood, or rather a middle caste? I would presume they wouldn't be derived solely from the highest caste based on The Baron's assessment of a Gold, Silver, & Bronze Age.
What arms & armor materials are available, I'm assuming mats like copper, bronze, brass, meteoric/nickel-iron, adamant as was Perseus' sickle, etc.

>>5938255
I can't speak for the history of the various castes and cliques in Greece, but I do know some bits of metallurgy. Brass is a bit too brittle for use in arms and armor, but it is shinier and prettier than bronze and copper, you may see it used in jewelry. Bronze is the go-to of the era for Greece. Bronze makers also tend to take ill from arsenic poisoning if you're curious, as it's part of one of the more popular and widespread methods of alloying bronze. Copper isn't used for things plainly as much, though seeing mirrors or jewelry or just used as a method of barter isn't out of the question.

Iron is where it gets interesting, at this specific time in history should be the beginning of when the iron age is emerging in parts of the world. It barely preceded the bronze age collapse in a couple of specific places. Notably for us, the Caucasian Mountains to the north of Hittite territory. Iron may sporadically be used in tools that do not require high hardness, it won't be on a plow but it might be used as weights, mallets or hammers, and knives for things like gutting fish and other soft work. Something to keep in mind is that bronze is harder than iron, bronze is also in fact harder than the earliest examples or proper steel to exist in the world. Though that would change pretty quickly once they figured out how exactly they were making their metal so hard.

Silver was also in for jewelry, and may be used as mirrors but I do think that becomes more popular later when silver is being mined more reliably. Mostly it exists to look pretty in the bronze age. Gold is the same way, but people REALLY like gold, so it also often gets used as gifts and currency amongst kings. To say nothing of the glittering adornments in their halls and outfits.

I can't remember but I think it was alluded to that the metal that the gods of Olympus make some of the stuff for heroes or themselves out of it basically super high carbon steel. The sort you'd only see in the modern age today. Which is effectively unbreakable to the people of the past. Tool steel especially can be used to make a sword that while not very sharp, can be smashed edge on to another blade and crack the opposing weapon while suffering negligible damage in return. It's pretty neat. But you'd have to ask Lesches about that. I may be talking out of my ass here.

>>5938278
One of the starting artifacts Homer mentioned that Nikon could have gotten if a trait was chosen was the adamantium spear, which if I recall properly had a 1d12 damage and ignored the armor and shield bonuses of enemies. It would be quite nice if somehow adamantium armor could be gotten.

>>5938357
I think Achilles' second set of armor is that kinda swank. And maybe Diomedes' breastplate? I know his chest piece is magical at least. Whether that means it was enchanted in some way or made by blessed hands I don't know. I think the only way we could get that kinda gear at this point is to make friends with someone who can ask Hephaestus for it, or steal/loot it from someone who already has it.

Oh man you know what would be a dope ass relic or artifact to have? A basket or something from Demeter's or Persephone's demense that eternally refills itself with fresh fruit and vegetables. Free food is beyond useful. I would say a jug or cup that refilled with fresh water forever as well, but for that we'd need to be friends with one of the potamides, potamoi or naiads. Or, in other terms, a r*ver deity.

Orrr get buddy with Dionysus and pals and get a pitcher of everflowing wine. Any gift like those that deal with unlimited food or drink is beyond indispensable. Too bad actually getting relics is hard as shit if you aren't a special little action figure for one of the deathless.

>>5938077
>>Charge forwards as fast as you can, casting your spear at the back of the Heraclid with your full strength and skill. This practically guarantees the death of the enemy and victory, but you would lose the ability to sell him for ransom or interrogate him.

>>5938077
>Charge forwards and cast your spear at half-strength. While still tremendously deadly, it’s possible that the spear is turned aside by the enemy’s armor. If you connect, the man may have a slim chance at life, and therefore ransom and interrogation.

>>5938357
>>5938367

>is it possible for Hippomedon to obtain a magic weapon or armor?

Definitely yes.

>>5938077
>Charge forwards as fast as you can, casting your spear at the back of the Heraclid with your full strength and skill. This practically guarantees the death of the enemy and victory, but you would lose the ability to sell him for ransom or interrogate him.

KILL KILL KILL

>>5938085
>>5938151
>>5938382
>>5938496

Give him a chance

>>5938090
>>5938092
>>5938205
>>5938418

—-

Seems like more split-voting, the eternal TWQ-verse outcome.

>>5938544
>Seems like more split-voting, the eternal TWQ-verse outcome.
Hey man, it's just that the choices provided are at times really equally compelling. Except for hiking. God knows Nikon should've gone hiking while in Lesbos.

>>5938544
I'll change my vote to half-strength.

I’m going to close the vote early at 1pm since my update is mostly written anyways.

Last chance to chime in, people.

Again, fair warning - Hippomedon could easily kill this guy, even tossing a softball.

Rolled 2, 16, 8 + 1 = 27 (3d20 + 1)

You cannot allow the Heraclid to spoil your flawless ambush - you’ll have to intervene. Your sandals dig deeply against the earth, and you spring forward with the agility of a lion. Your bounding strides propel you within casting range in just a few moments. The enemy commander has turned his back to you and embedded himself among his lines - he is beginning to menace your troops with jabs and thrusts. His size makes him unmissable, however, and an enticing target - better to strike now before he kills a handful of your men.

You elect to cast your spear at half power - there’s a chance you may simply gravely wound the man, rather than send him immediately to the Lord of Many below. If nothing else, he knows the location of a Dorian pentekoster, and sea-worthy vessels are valuable indeed. If the Heraclid survives, there’s also the possibility of ransom, although Adrastus would likely sell the man to an intermediary, who would then sell him to his relatives in west Thessaly. A direct transaction between Argives and Heraclidae - unthinkable.

Other men may choose send their casts in a higher arc, especially they doubt their aim. You have no such concerns - countless thousands of casts are remembered by your spear arm. As you sprint, your right arm rises of its own accord, ratcheting back into position and smoothly firing your spear - it whistles low through the humid air at a pitch just outside your range of hearing, before striking the enemy’s brazen back with an awful screech!

>okay /qst/, give me THREE rolls of dice+1d20+8 to see if this cast lands!
>I’m rolling dice+3d20+1 for the Heraclid’s CON - he has a typical +3 CON bonus, is wearing royal quality panoplia (+3 armor bonus), but has turned his back to Hippomedon, triggering a gnarly -5 flanking penalty.

>>5934983
Putting an anchor post in for now while I read up on this. Blaaaaarg.

Rolled 11 + 8 (1d20 + 8)

>>5938628

Rolled 14 + 8 (1d20 + 8)

>>5938628

Rolled 17 + 8 (1d20 + 8)

>>5938628
Huh, half strength affects the skill bonus as well? That's good otherwise with just half strength it would be a bonus of +11 if the skills were unmodified.
>>5938570
Me

>>5938636

Technically we need a third roll but we already beat the DC - 22 vs 17. Hippo succeeds!

Now I need a dice+1d5+8 - the Heraclid dies outright unless we get a 1 or a 2, though

>>5938663

Skill bonus is retained when casting at half-strength - I’m calculating more like this - (1/2)*STRBONUS + SKILL = X. So for Hippomedon - (1/2)*10 + 3 = X.

Rolled 4 + 8 (1d5 + 8)

>>5938665

May Artemis guide this strike.

Rolled 2 + 6 (1d5 + 6)

>>5938668
Oh, does gifted athlete +3 to javelin throws not apply here?

Rolled 11 (1d20)

>>5938671

Oops, you accidentally BTFO the enemy! Such is life in the Mythic Age of Greece…

Well, you get some very valuable bronze out of the bargain and the pride of knowing that you’re basically incapable of not sending it when you cast spears.

Rolling for the Dorians to maintain their WILL to fight - they need to roll a 7 or lower to continue fighting. Killing a commander immediately prompts a WILL check for their troops.

>>5938673

Shit I was doing my math wrong - the perils of phone posting. Oh well, Hippomedon beat the Wound DC even without the additional GA +3 skill bonus and I’ll just revise history to say that Hippomedon was throwing at ~30% power instead of 50%, to make the math work out.

>>5938686
That just makes it even goofier, lmao. What, did we need to throw it at like 15% power for him to even have a chance of living?

>hey man, hold this
>railgun charging sounds
Damn. Sucks to be this guy.

>>5938278
Is brass more brittle than copper? Would either be used as weapons & tools by those who can't afford bronze?
I knew of the coppersmith-poisonings, hence why Hephaestus is depicted as a crippled god along with other deities dealing with metallurgy.
Would electrum be used as currency?
What made orichalchum so valuable besides rarity?
So iron is available as meteoric/nickel-iron and as basic wrought iron or cast iron?

>>5938703
KEK

>>5938778
Copper maybe, but Brass is an alloy of... zinc and copper, I want to say? Yes, I believe it was zinc and copper. Since it requires some work to make and generally isn't in great supply, you'd be better off using copper or even just wood (where applicable) if you were too poor for bronze tools. I'd say that copper can do most anything blunt that a bronze tool would do; hammers, clubs, etc. and a sharp tools (knives, axes, etc) would need a lot more attention and maintenance to keep their shape and edge than a bronze one would, but certainly be better than a stone tool.

>>5938778
Than copper? A little bit, depending on whether it's hard or soft brass. I don't know exactly if ancient peoples had their recipes set for that kind of detail though. The best brass wouldn't come about for a long time though, when people started using aluminum and shit. In relation to bronze it's softer and easier to work, but that makes it less ideal for arms and armor. You could use straight copper for things like knives and arrowheads but they'd be pretty bendy and not hold up very well. Copper is extremely malleable and soft. Comparatively. Copper fell out of style when bronze was discovered for this reason. But in a pinch? Sure. As for tools, totally. Copper tools were in if you weren't wealthy. They're easy to fix when they get damaged thanks to a relatively low melting point and ease of separating impurities from elemental copper.

Some of the symptoms of arsenic poisoning are metal as fuck. Fitting for the line of work.

Electrum as currency, if you mean as coinage, no. That would be several centuries away. But if you mean in general as a way of paying for things, yes, actually. The Egyptians(?) I think were using it for thousands of years before this point in time. Making jewelry from it is pretty popular, and plating stuff with it is not unheard of. So if you wanted to trade some of it for things that'd be pretty common practice. The Greeks would call it Elektron though. it would also be used for drinking implements (brass, is the same).

Orichalcum is kinda iffy? That's more of a thing of curiosity as far as I am aware. A historical debate sort of thing. Though as this is a fictionalish world we exist in, we should assume it's real. It's probably some form of mythical ore that is inherently like bronze or brass in its measure. Or it's an alloy that only the gods know how to make, or their favored mortal smiths. That one would probably be something for Lesches to chime in on. If we assume it's an ore with insanely good qualities then that would explain its worth. Imagine mining super-brass/bronze straight out of the ground and ready to work, that'd be pretty baller.

Yeah, iron is still around. It's just not very popular due to tradition of using copper, and the superiority of bronze. Meteoric iron could conceivably drop that is chemically equivalent/superior to bronze and if someone made something out of it it would probably be considered a notable thing. There are plenty of examples of it in history, even. For more terrestrial examples, due to how much harder it is to smelt iron you really would only see it pop up very rarely and typically only for the very rich as ceremonial items. I think at this particular time it's only a few centuries away from discovering the earliest recipes for wrought iron. So what you'll get at this point is more elemental iron and the "raw" stuff. The reason it isn't so widespread yet is that the specific smelters needed to get hot enough aren't quite completely figured out at the moment.

Oh also, the Indian subcontinent is going to enter into it's iron age just before the collapse as well. The Indians actually figure out iron working really well. I think there was a famous iron pillar or something that pops up somewhere in the central parts of India at some point in history? They make some pretty nifty blends until they stagnate thousands of years away.

Hoping to get out an update tonight - the Dorian have broken, so no further rolls needed.

Congratulations on your first flawless victory, /qst/. It was an utter blowout just as anticipated

>>5938821
Truly the Heraclidae are the official jobbers of the Greek world.

Thank you Metallurgy Enjoyers & Noble Lesches, Idk how this Qst got so civil but it's a massive improvement.

>>5938807
>>5938803
There were a few ironworking civilizations in Africa possibly as early as 1700 BCE, but I'm not sure how that corresponds with whatever timeframe 'Mythic Greece' takes place in, and I think they were pretty localized polities that never got any iron goods across the Sahara, never reaching north of modern-day Nigeria.

>>5938870
I think anons have roughly pinpointed the Trojan war to be around the 1200's BC, which would put this quest somewhere a little earlier.

I think there were smelters somewhere around Air, right? I don't think the iron they produced in Africa was better than contemporary bronze, but sub-Saharan Africa didn't have much in the way of bronzeworking. Abundant in other metals though. I think they figure out a recipe for higher carbon steel some several hundred years before the swap to CE? One thing about iron working is that it took a long time to actually get good. The Thracians and Dacians for example had big iron blades and falxes and stuff that were really soft and bendy, to the point where you could step on them and bend them out of shape, so you'd have to straighten them out after hard use on battlefields. And that was when they were fighting the Romans.

Ironworking as a whole is very old, but bronze would remain superior to iron until the collapse and the advent of steel. The oldest iron working I can remember off of the top of my head is like, 2300 BC? I can't remember where exactly, though.

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As you sprint close to the skirmishers, you watch the enemy commander carefully. Despite your gentle touch, the Heraclid has been skewered - he staggers to the side, suddenly uncoordinated, and you see that the your spearpoint has emerged from his right breast. Some men meet their death gracefully, but most do not - your victim is one of these graceless men. Even over the din of battle, you hear his awful, wet barking, as he sprays black blood and bile across his armored chest, causing his dirty horse-hair crest to jerk wildly. You guess that his lung has been shredded, and probably the great life-giving vessels that dwell within his chest have been torn as well. Already, rivulets of his blood are streaming down from the ends of his panoplia, mixing into the mud. Men who suffer such wounds invariably die quickly - and you would know, having seen this many times. As he staggers, he rotates - you watch as he grips the spearpoint protruding from his chestplate, as if to pull it loose with his hands, but perhaps cannot quite manage to will to do so.
You halt your bounding charge when you are only ten strides distant - close enough to hear the man’s last words… but he instead only gasps wetly, falling to his knees and then, facedown into the mud. His armors clatters upon him, and the noise prompts wails of despair from his Dorian troops. Their will is broken, but you have not yet finished:

No enemy of Argos shall escape alive.

Before the enemy soldiers can scatter, you leap over the sprawled corpse of the Heraclid, and your spear blinks out - a Dorian’s skull is shattered, another’s liver is pierced, and a third man’s heart is savaged by your spearpoint. A fourth Dorian, horrified by your instant slaying of his companions, trips backwards, splitting his scalp against a stone, before scrambling away from you in crab-fashion. You prowl forwards and Phobos, daimon of panic, drapes himself about your shoulders as a garland – all pretense of decorum amongst the Dorians is lost as you assault them standing above the corpse of their dead commander, and your honorguard menaces from the opposite direction.

You stand at the center of the Dorian camp, launching Dorian spears at their own masters - the fastest of the enemy scream and sprint for their lives, but they cannot outrun your spearcasts. The slower Dorians, you leave to your honorguard, who promptly run them down. The skirmish lasted for under thirty seconds - the slaughter of survivors takes a leisurely five minutes. The wounded enemy is matter-of-factly executed – you have the need of speedy transit to Argos, and to take these men into slavery would significantly delay your travel. Besides – you have the Heraclid’s bronze panoplia, and this is war-prize enough for your purposes. You had kept one of the wounded Dorians alive for a few minutes for interrogation, learning that his master, true to his word, was Agemedidas, son of Oneitas, son of Heracles.

>cont

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You feel nothing for having killed the Heraclid – after all, you did not know him. Finally, you have your honorguard build a funeral pyre for the enemy corpses, while Argyros assists you in stripping the bronze from the enemy commander. While you care nothing for the Dorians, you simply cannot let the bodies rot in place, not so close to your estates. Better to burn them and be done with it. As you investigate the enemy commander's corpse, you’re shocked to find that Agemedidas was very young – you estimate that he was a man of perhaps eighteen, despite his full beard and build. To your disquiet, you see that the Heraclid has a striking resemblance to yourself – the same lean and angular features, same noble nose - although he is blond and you are dark-haired, and his eyes are of a different cast. Still, an unusual and unsettling thing – if not for the hair, he could pass as a son, or perhaps a brother. You put it out of your mind, as you place the body atop the funeral pyre.

Always stern, you turn to Argyros once the Heraclidean armor has been packaged together, and say:

“Argyros, you have served me faithfully and well – it is time for us to retire your tired linothorax and armor you properly. War is coming – I cannot risk your injury or death due to substandard equipment. When we reach Argos, we shall meet with one of my uncle’s bronzesmiths and provide you with a panoplia of your own.” Argyros nods seriously in understanding, grasping your larger hand in a warrior’s agreement, maintaining a grim expression and matching your gaze with his icy-blue eyes. The deal is struck!

>Argyros has an UNBREAKABLE BOND OF LOYALTY to Hippomedon and by extension, the Argive Royal Family. Betrayal is not within him, and he will always serve Hippomedon and his family dutifully.

But then the moment passes, and Argyros, comedian that he is, grins broadly, saying:

“Hippomedon, you cannot bribe me into bed.”

You can’t help but laugh, as the corpses of the Dorians begin to crackle and burn, their ashes rising into the swamp air.

---

The Inachian Honorguard is no worse off for their role in the ambush - the enemy broke before a single sustained counterattack could be made, and so only minor bumps, scrapes and bruises were suffered by your men. All victories are worth celebrating, and so the men are boisterous, chattering happily as they overturn the camp looking for valuables. The smell of roasting men fills the air, as the pyre burns, but for you, this is nothing out of the ordinary. The only thing of true value in the camp is the Heraclidean armor that you have packaged safely into a spare Dorian ox-cart - without oxen, it must be pulled along by your honorguard, but this can be done with no loss of speed. You regret that the Dorian commoner you spoke with was uneducated and could not describe the location of his hidden vessel, but nothing to be done about this now.

>cont

You've lost little time, and a day of travel commences - what do you contemplate as you stand atop the chariot? This is an experimental flashback sequence, /qst/ - bear with me.

>Your wife, Euanippe, and of her building crisis.

>Your father, Aristomachus, and of his death.

>Your uncle, King Adrastus of Argos, and of his pride for you.

>Your first battle with Argyros, and the making of a true friendship.

>Your rivalry with your cousin, Capaneus, and of your last boxing match.

>WRITE-IN: Some other element of Hippomedon's life?

>>5939085
>>Your wife, Euanippe, and of her building crisis.
As much as I desire BEEG, I am always concerned with familial matters, especially ones so close to home, in this case literally in our home.

>>5939085
>Your father, Aristomachus, and of his death.

>>5939085
>Your father, Aristomachus, and of his death.

>>5939085
>Your father, Aristomachus, and of his death.
How tall is Hippo?

A bow might be useful considering that Hippo doesn't have to throw it and he has some skill modifiers for it.

Though what to do with the armor? Sacrifice it for Hera and try to gain godly favor? Though Hippo's impiety trait might mean he should really avoid talking to any deities.

>>5939085
>Your father, Aristomachus, and of his death.
Damn, our lad is truly terrifying.

>>5938879
Assuming the accuracy of Wikipedia and/or its sources, the oldest known evidence of smelted (as opposed to cold-forged) iron is a knife blade from Ukraine (2500 BCE) and bloomery furnaces in Nigeria and Cameroon that date back to roughly the same period (older than I thought).

>>5939085
>>Your father, Aristomachus, and of his death.
Does Hippomedon worship anyone, or have any fondness for a certain deity? Does he sacrifice to anyone?

>>5939107
Tons of stuff is super old when you look into it. It's really fascinating. People talk about how old beer is and refer to medieval Germany when they were actually brewing a sort of not!mead in Sumeria. Shit like that is always a trip.

Of course, then we have to make distinctions on what we all collectively agree something is. I know some people who think that iron tools don't count unless they're at least cast, while other people consider cast iron to be instead the lowest grade of steel rather than just regular iron. But for the terms of raw "They were melting that shit and beating it into shape" yeah it's old as hell kek.

>>5939126
Yeah, it’s somewhat amusing looking back at things. The most absurd ancient human achievement I’ve heard of is how humans domesticated SILKWORMS of all things about 5 200 years ago, or about 800 years after horses. Whoever first started it must’ve just looked like some weirdo playing with some worms.

>>5939141
Makes you wonder what some schizo is doing in his garage today that'll be in textbooks and treatises a thousand years from now as a true visionary and unparalleled genius.

>"There goes Ah'sin prodding those worms again."
>"I think he is peeling that stuff off of them. Thank the gods we are not cursed as he! Hahaha!"

>>5939080
TOP FUCKING KEK, probably woke my neighbors laughing at that line

Personally I'm an ardent proponent of past civilizations being greatly advanced, but falling to cataclysms. Cro-Magnons are essentially MORE evolved than modern Indo-Europeans afterall, & largely our direct ancestors. What do you anons make of the Anteiklera (spelling?) Mechanism? I believe technology can advance along different avenues rather than any particular linear progression.

So essentially aa far as gear goes, you have bottom-tier primitive shit: cloth/paper/papyrus/linen, hide/fur, wood, bone/horn/antler, stone/chert/flint, obsidian/glass, etc.
low-tier peasant shit: leather, copper, pot metal, pewter?, tin?, etc.
mid-tier merc shit: lamellar, scalemail, brass, scrap bronze, cold-wrought iron, etc.
high-tier noble shit: silk, plate, high-quality ore wrought/cast iron, bronze, etc.
demigod-tier shit: meteoric/nickel-iron, adamant, titan-ium?, etc.

Can we get an asbestos padded shirt or what have you to be essentially fire-proof?

Lastly, did our lads get any decent loot for themselves from the camp? Wine, arms, armor, jewelry, etc.?

>>5934999
>OUR ARCH-RIVAL

>>5939155
There is a not insubstantial portion of people who believe that ancient humans were more advanced than we give them credit for. Not in the vein of "ancient aliens" type beyond us, but more in line with the idea that the gods are just retellings of men and women of extraordinary enlightenment lost to history. I think they did eventually come up with a plausible idea as to what the Antikythera Device did as some sort of navigational tool for ships. Which would mean that the thing holding seafaring nations back wasn't their ability to know where they were going so much as their shipbuilding not being up to task for the rigors of a truly violent ocean voyage. I know there was a mathematician in like, 3-400 BC who hypothesized the location of far off lands using nothing but equations and he was right. He came from a Greek colony near Gaul and Spain IIRC. Messalia? I don't know off the top of my head.

I think intellectually as a species we've been repeatedly bottlenecked by an inability to catalogue and spread information with any sort of permanence until relatively recently. We've ALWAYS been the smart apes, the problem is we wind up getting caught up in catastrophes and wars that wind up destroying the things and people who know things. Nowadays that isn't too much of a problem. We're guarded from physical loss with digital copies. And guarded from digital loss with physical copies. The problem know is just, people are acting dumb kek. They don't think as much as they should. Unlike we enlightened schizoids in this amazing quest!

>asbestos for fire immunity buff
Wouldn't last an hour, the wall cotton candy is too colorful and tasty to resist eating. It would be consumed before the fires ever touched us. Sad.

>>5939165
Well said, my fellow Schizo-borean; true facts about the house-meat, it is far too soft & chewy.

>>5939085
>>Your wife, Euanippe, and of her building crisis.

>>5939099

>how tall is Hippo?

He’s 6’8” or so - Nikandros is slightly taller, actually.

>wat do with armor?

Ah, well - the implication is that Hippomedon would trade this Heraclidean bronze to the bronze smiths and get human-sized panoplia in return for Argyros. But I’ll make this an actual vote later on.

Lastly, did our lads get any decent loot for themselves from the camp? Wine, arms, armor, jewelry, etc.?

Short answer - not really. The Dorians were a military scouting mission and had little of economic value, and Hippomedon caught them before they could start robbing travelers, so they were broke and hungry. Really, the only things of value were the Heraclid (for ransom), his panoplia (which you now have) and the location of his ship (which may or may not eventually located by other Argives).

I’m going to close this vote a bit later today to give anons time to chime in, will close at 8pm EST. We’re making good time - we’re right on schedule!

>>5939125

Oops, missed this question:

Basically, Hippomedon is something of a secular person. He knows the gods exist, of course, but he has a basic disinterest in worshiping and attempt to please them - from his own experience, he has seen exactly zero people saved from divine intervention, and he has heard countless pleas for such things through his years of military service. He reasons that the gods are mostly concerned with their own business and his best strategem to avoid their trouble whenever possible. He grudgingly performs the bare minimum of god-worship, as expected of an Argive prince, but he’s a bit similar to Ajax in his general disinterest in divine matters.

Unlike Nikandros, he has no recent divine ancestry, and so he figures that nymphs, naiads, god and goddesses are mostly problems that exist above his pay-grade: he’s here to crush mortal skulls for his uncle, and he does it very well.

>>5939085
>Your first battle with Argyros, and the making of a true friendship.

Tally so far:

Wife
>>5939089
>>5939292

Dad
>>5939090
>>5939091
>>5939099
>>5939106
>>5939125

BFF
>>5939368

—-

~8 hour warning for votes!

>>5939333
>human-sized panoplia in return for Argyros
That's pretty neat. Though, isn't Hippo a rich enough prince to just buy bronze panoplia for Argyros?

How tall is Euanippe?

>>5939085
>>Your wife, Euanippe, and of her building crisis.

>>5938701
This is my last ID, changed again.

>>5939654

>That's pretty neat. Though, isn't Hippo a rich enough prince to just buy bronze panoplia for Argyros?

He is, definitely - I’m also keeping in mind that most Hellenic nobility consider mercantile transactions to be unclean and merchants are generally considered low people. so hippo will be gifting a free set of bronze armor to his uncles estate, and his That's pretty neat. Though, isn't Hippo a rich enough prince to just buy bronze panoplia for Argyros?

Definitely, yes. However, good quality bronze armor is valuable (this set equals about 10 prime cattle), and most Hellenic nobility feel that mercantile transactions are unclear - in the Iliad and Odyssey, everything seems to work on a war bounty, trophy, gift system, rather than “I pay X gold for YZ item.”

so my thought here is that hippo would give this armor to his uncle, and Adrastus will coincidentally gift hippo a smaller set of armor that fits Argyros. Basically, this is a way for hippo to keep up his good relationship with his uncle, A swanky set of armor for his best lieutenant, without dirtying his hands in a mercantile process. I could be thinking about all of this incorrectly, maybe somebody who knows better can inform us.

>How tall is Euanippe?

Average height for a Hellenic noblewoman - 5’7” or so. The size disparity between Hippo and his wife borders on comedic, but love is funny that way.

>>5939680
All I know about ancient Greek customs in that regard is that all the people living on the land give a tithe which is collected at a lord's residence/palace. Typically in the form of whatever a citizen's profession is. Cattle, food, lumber, ores, stuff like that. And that outside of that it's mostly a barter system. Centralized currency shouldn't have existed back then. The Greek obol I think shows up sometime around 900 BC? 800? And not as coins but these weird metal rods. The drachma shows up even later as a real coin. IIRC.

>>5939691

Well, there’s clearly the “talents” unit of gold measurement/currency that is mentioned in the Iliad. IIRC, I worked it out in one of the TWQ quests that one full-size steer is worth one talent of gold, which is something like 30g of gold by weight

>>5939710
Ah, to be a king. I guess I kind of overlooked or more likely forgot how royalty and the rich pay for things. Gold truly has always been used to settle debts. Athena has surely stolen my wits this day.

The scent of charred meat and cypress lingers in your nose, even as noon passes and a warm Argive afternoon begins. The scent triggers a distant memory: the pyre of your own father…

—-
You are Hippomedon Aristomachides, and you are both sixteen and angry. No - “angry” is too simple a word for the storm raging within you - shame, guilt, rage and despair together coursing through your veins like molten lead, expelled from your breath like forge-fire.

You stare at the funeral pyre before you, an elaborate wooden scaffold eight strides tall and festooned with flowers, herbs, spices, countless flags and ribbons. You stare at the robed figure barely visible atop it. Robes of noble blue flutter gently at the top of the pyre, the golden embroidery flashing with the light of the setting sun. The wails of hundreds of women take flight into the dusky air, as they beat their chests; the sobbing of hundreds of men spreads across the twilit field like an evening fog. All Argive nobility are present - but you don't care.

How could he leave you?

It is the only thought in your mind - it has been your only thought for two days, as your family - the Royal Family - assembles for your father's funeral procession. Your father had been at the head of an Argive army, some forty stadia outside the city when he died - a military exercise, you were told.

How could you leave me, Father?

“It was not his decision, boy.”

You startle as a firm hand grasps your shoulder; turning, you see the kindly face of your uncle, mild King Adrastus. A mountain bear of a man, and yet finely-dressed in exquisite robes of purple, and draped with jewelry of all kinds - the paradox commands attention. Unyielding, they named your uncle, but this is not the same thing as to be merciless.

“He did not choose this, Hippomedon.” Adrastus continues. “No father would choose this willingly.” You nod dumbly; your tongue frozen in place.

Your uncle has always been as generous to his friends and family as he has been implacable to his enemies - the same force of will that makes him unbeatable in battle prompts him to embrace you now - you struggle at first, but your uncle is in the prime of his kingship - a powerful man in his mid-fifties, and you cannot push him away. The tears come next - flowing hotly down your face.

You weep because you were not with him when he died. You weep because he died without warning. You weep because some cold part of you does not despair - it now calculates that you become the master of your father’s estates, with all the wealth and privilege that this entails. You weep because you had argued with him before he took the field, two weeks ago, about some meaningless thing. You weep because you could have been a better son to him, honored him better, kept his counsel better. You weep because you are now alone - adrift in the Argolid without mother or father, without siblings.

>cont

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Adrastus does not release his grasp, and speaks again, seeming to know your thoughts:

“Do not be afraid to weep, Hippomedon. You are not alone. I am with you. Your aunts and uncles are with you. Your cousins are with you. Weep for today, because your father’s shade has gone down to the Lord of Many as a young man - it is right and proper to weep at such injustice.” He says nothing further, but grasps you tightly - and you are grateful. You love him, just as surely as you loved your father.

Time passes, and your uncle releases you - cousins approach and offer you soothing words. Even Capaneus, that whoreson (no disrespect to your aunt Astynome), offers you genuine condolences - no smug boasting of his superiority today. You accept these words as gracefully as you can, murmuring thanks.

It is just a dream. You will soon wake, your mind offers - but you do not wake from the nightmare. It carries on.

The pyre is lit.

You shocked at the pain of it - the flames may well be consuming your own flesh. Someone is screaming, you realize, shouting wildly that “He lives, he lives! Do not let him burn!” - and you realize that the ragged words are bursting from your own throat; that your uncles Pronax and Mecisteus, and Lord Amphiarus are together restraining you from madly climbing the burning pyre. Lord Amphiarus, the seer who once deposed your uncle, was King himself for a time, and is now loyal once more to the line of Talaus – this prophet now urges you:

“No, lad, no - you must not climb! Remember him hale and hearty! Do not look upon him if you cannot bear it!”

The mania fades, as Amphiarus’ words register - your uncles Pronax and Mecisteus embrace you, forgive you. There is yet pandemonium about you, as the women wail and the men weep; as the flames climb higher. Few noticed your outburst - your voice was lost amongst the cacophony of grief. Darkness comes, but the pyre is bright indeed - it lights the field well. Heat builds, pressing on your face and chest, but your sandals are nailed to the earth. So you remain, a lost man of sixteen, as the nobility of Argos depart silently.

After hours, the pyre has crumbled and your father is vanished – the embers, along with your rage, begin to cool, and the impassionate stars wheel coldly above. You turn to leave, but are surprised to see Lord Amphiarus by your side. Strangely, he does not meet your eye, but stares into the pyre’s corpse – his mouth twists guiltily. He meets your gaze, the full weight of his presence settling about you, and you sense that he wrestles with some division of the heart. But what to say?

>Say and do nothing. Let the seer speak if he wills it.

>Persuade the seer Amphiarus to speak his mind. This will trigger a contested CHA vs WILL context. Be warned - Amphiarus has phenomenal WILL.

>Analyze the seer further - perhaps you can intuit his purpose?

>Offer condolences to Amphiarus - he became a friend to your father, these last years...

>>5939818
>>Offer condolences to Amphiarus - he became a friend to your father, these last years...
Man, Nikon really is Hippomedon's son. Now I've no doubt that he heard Nikon's song despite the veil of life that separated them.

>>5939818
>Persuade the seer Amphiarus to speak his mind. This will trigger a contested CHA vs WILL context. Be warned - Amphiarus has phenomenal WILL.
I must know what secrets fester within the prophet's skull!

>>5939818
This hits different if you were following Nikandros' story from the beginning. I hope we can save him. I'm still emotionally traumatized from when we fucked up.

>>5939823
Be strong, gentle-hearted brother. Hold faith. He will stride amongst the living again. For now we must ensure that Hippomedon does as he must.

>>5939818
>Say and do nothing. Let the seer speak if he wills it.
Silence can be an utterly deafening thing.

>>5939825
There is a twisted sense of humor in Nira being able to infiltrate a palace and get what she wants and then some, then there's Nikon who tries and gets fucking killed.

>>5939823

Me too! I did actually weep writing the final update of TWQ - it felt like I was euthanizing a friend IRL or something.

Anyways, you guys will think I'm crazy, but I'm actually hoping to ratchet up the emotional intensity of SATQ compared to TWQ. Part of the delay between SATQ and TWQ was attempting to plan out a way that the narrative of SATQ can prompt a strong emotional reaction WITHOUT the same meta-shitstorm of player reaction as the end of TWQ created, if that makes any sense.

tl;dr - I want create drama through better writing.

>>5939840

I'm glad you noticed - at least some of this mirroring is by design. It's my intention that TWQ, TWQ:DS and SATQ all vaguely interlock together from a thematic perspective, although whether I can actually pull this off remains to be seen.

>>5939844
>at least some of this mirroring is by design
The dice being the bastards they are make this comment all the more funny. Who knows, maybe they'll take the wheel like they did with Nira and Nikon and throw it hurtling off course.

>>5939840
Nira and Nikon are literally two sides of the same coin. Too bad coins don't exist yet!

>>5939847
>hippomedon winds up fistfighting a humongous pan, shirtless, in the rain, with a satyr spitting straight fire through a flute in the background while the earth shakes, over an unconscious oread

>>5939818
>Say and do nothing. Let the seer speak if he wills it.

Silence is heavy, I agree with anon.

>>5934999
Profoundly written scene, Noble Lesches.

>Persuade the Seer to speak...

>>5939818
>Offer condolences to Amphiarus - he became a friend to your father, these last years...
>Persuade the seer Amphiarus to speak his mind. This will trigger a contested CHA vs WILL context. Be warned - Amphiarus has phenomenal WILL.
Can we do both?

>>5939818
>>Persuade the seer Amphiarus to speak his mind. This will trigger a contested CHA vs WILL context. Be warned - Amphiarus has phenomenal WILL.

>>5940020

>Can we do both?

Sure, but I’d spin this as a context bonus to the persuade attempt.

Friendly reminder that Hippomedon has a +1 bonus to CHA and persuasion attempts, and in Homer’s system, you must beat your targets WILL to diplomance them.

Amphiarus, as a seer, has a borderline supernatural force of WILL. This would be a very difficult challenge for Hippomedon to beat.

>>5940072
Hey Lesches, do you have a stat posts similar to what you did with Nikon and Nira with all that good stuff of Kleos, Timae, and etc.

>>5940097

Yes, it’s on my agenda to post Hippo’s full stat sheet this coming weekend. Really, the only thing I haven’t addressed directly is Hippo’s Timae (which is 9). As a prince of a cadet line of the Argive Royal Family, he is very fucking rich, and wealthier than some of the poorer Hellenic kings. Nikandros, for reference, started out with Kleos/Timae of -5/-5.

Hippomedon can self-fund smaller war operations, found minor cities, etc. He has thousands of cattle, horses, sheep and goats, and his household contains hundreds of domestic servants and laborers. The Inachian Honorguard are his spec-ops team, but he can summon a much larger force of irregulars (havent worked this out yet, but likely hundreds of soldiers) if he so chooses.

I really have to question those who voted for persuading the seer with absurd will. Hippomedon as he is currently built almost certainly doesn’t have enough charisma to beat out a Seer in will (their “primary stat” I’m assuming). It’s a contest we’d lose barring the most absurd circumstances.

I think we basically have a three-way tie, so I’d encourage lurkers to hop in and vote. I’m closing this voting window at 5pm EST in the hopes of bringing Hippomedon to Argos by this weekend.

>>5939818
>>Offer condolences to Amphiarus - he became a friend to your father, these last years...

>>5940380
If it's a default option, I view it as a viable vote. But alright.

>>5939821 is me, and I'll back >>5939820

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Lord Amphiarus is a distant relative of yours, a third cousin, and as such he does not resemble you. His branch of the family, descended from the legendary seer Melampus, has contended with your branch for the Argive throne for generations. In cases, successfully – Amphiarus is living proof, having briefly reigned as King when you were an infant. However, once Amphiarus surrendered the throne, and Adrastus returned to resume his kingship from exile in Sicyon, Amphiarus was married to your paternal aunt, Eriphyle, and together they have had five children. By all accounts - a happy end to Argive strife, and a happy marriage - not one purely made of political considerations. He is a lean, athletic man of about forty summers, and considerably shorter than you - despite his smaller size and religious work as a priest of Apollo, you’re told that the man is surprisingly competent with the spear and not to be underestimated. You know him mostly by reputation.

In this moment, he looks does not look the supremely-confident priest. His eyes are in deep shadow - a frown ages him beyond his years; he is unsettled.You surprise yourself - as Adrastus comforted you, now you are driven to comfort this man.

“I know he had become a friend to you, Lord Amphiarus,” you begin. “My condolences for the loss of your companion.” Your voice is hoarse from your shouting earlier, but steady. Amphiarus is startled, turning to you before speaking wonderingly:

“The bereft son offers me condolences on the day of his father’s funerary procession? Perhaps there is wisdom yet in Argos…” His eyes shine as he regards you fully, continuing. “Thank you for your winged words, Hippomedon Aristomachides - you have embarrassed a high priest of Apollo.” He does not smile, not quite – but you sense the man’s gratitude is earnest. You have helped him, perhaps unknowingly, but your words were well-taken nonetheless.

But the seer’s eyes grow shadowed once more, and he grows stern. “All sons should endeavor to be better men than their fathers – swear the strong oaths that you shall do this, prince of Argos – under penalty of Zeus.”

“I swear it,” you say, grasping his arm without hesitation. You have sworn the same oath many times in the training yards, although never spoken it aloud. Let Zeus observe your labors and be pleased with the dutiful son of Aristomachus. Amphiarus, seemingly satisfied, exits promptly, and you are left alone in the field, watching the embers of your father's pyre cool. You will hold the vigil this night, and in the morning, collect his bones into a funerary urn for preservation. You will carry your father home to his - to your - palace, and your stewardship of the estates begins. There is much to learn - for you had not been expected to take his place for many years...

>no vote for this update, lads - just some flavor. Get ready to meet (nearly) the full cast of SATQ this weekend - big party at Uncle Addy's house!

>>5940909
>big party at Uncle Addy's house!
Aw yeah, get crunk with it. This wine is only getting diluted by half the normal proportions! I wonder, who makes the best wine in the ancient world? There are those priests of Dionysus on that island that make some seriously strong stuff, but would it be the "best" wine or just the strongest? In any case, I'm sure Argolid grapes are the best if nothing else.

>>5940917
Perhaps the Hyperboreans with their Mead of Aristeia... or was it Poetry?

Is Sicyon meant to be Scythia/Cimmeria?

>>5940978
Truly the Hyperboreans get all the coolest shit. I wonder if we'll ever meet one. I admit I don't know much about the peoples specifically of the era.

>>5940978

>Is Sicyon meant to be Scythia/Cimmeria?

Great question but no, Sicyon is a neighboring Hellenic city up by Corinth - Adrastus had been king there for a few years before he returned to Argos. Hippomedon doesn’t know all the details here - Adrastus was exiled before he was born and returned when he was an infant. Aristomachus was sometimes suspicious of the Melampian branch of the nobility, but the whole episode was smoothed over pretty well by Adrastus and Amphiarus together

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>>5940909
Since the Seven are going to Thebes is Tiresias still alive?

>>5941168

Yes, Tiresias is definitely alive through the events of the first Argo-Theban War but is definitively dead by the events of the Odyssey (since Odysseus consults with him via necromantic ritual at that point)

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Traveling the well-patrolled lands of the Argolid is typically an untroubled affair – as one draws closer to Argos, the safety and security of the region increases dramatically. By early next afternoon, you and your men are drawing close to the city itself; the swamps give way to meadows and farmland. Field slaves and Argive freemen become common sights, as they labor to feed your nation – the trails become broader before evolving into double-lane dirt paths, and your party is soon being passed by chariots, carts, merchants and minor nobility with frequency. Despite the fact that you live on the periphery of the Argive nation, returning to Argos always has the feel of coming home – the steeds of your quadriga seem to know it as well, returning to the place of their birth, stepping lightly. The men of Inachian Honorguard are in high spirits, singing tuneful ditties and mocking each other’s combat performances the day previous. It is another hot day; Zephyrus herds his fluffy white sheep through the sky.

Passing over a hill, the prosperous city of Argos is laid out before you – it is the finest settlement in Hellas, thickly walled, and nestled between the two hills, Larissa and Aspis. It is beloved by ox-eyed Hera Αργεια, wife of Zeus; a city of oaths and marriage, fidelity and trust. The city floats atop rich fields of wheat and valleys filled to the brim with fat cattle; even now, endless streams of substance flow into the city to feed and enrich its people. Crime does not exist here; even men of common birth hoard their pride and self-respect like gold and silver. As a result, Argives themselves are the best of the commoners of Hellas - they are a pious folk, and Hera’s love for your people is returned tenfold to her. The shafts of Apollo rarely trouble your people; disease is both rare and fleeting. The stone temples, palaces and even personal residences are daubed richly in reds, blues, and purples – flags of all sizes and hues ripple in the breeze. The great theatre of the city is an ivory bowl; visible even from your vantage point.

Outside the gates, the unclean merchants hawk their wares in wooden stalls to the passersby. As for material wealth, the teeming hordes of Mycenae may claim that as the residents of the capital of Hellas, they are the richest and most cultured, and subjects of High King Agamemnon besides - a superior race, they boast! But Myceneans have been known to sell their wives and sisters into slavery for wine and a night’s pleasure; such base greed offends the Argive spirit. Argives all know that material wealth comes to those who hold true to the manful virtues - these are the true currencies of a wealthy people! Although, you note that your family certainly has gold aplenty as well. Regardless, it has been your duty, your honor, your privilege, and your fierce pleasure to shelter this jewel of the Peloponnese from all those who covet it.

>cont, might be some delay before I can finish...

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Entering the city is a simple matter – all here know of you and your accomplishments. Argyros installs your honorguard within one of the many guardhouses dotting the city’s thick walls. During your stay here, they will contribute to the city’s defense, train their inferiors amongst the city’s guard, and stay out of trouble. Argyros and yourself make promptly to the Royal Palace; as your trusted lieutenant, he is a welcome guest of your uncle’s hospitality. The thick bronze doors of the Palace are heavy in the extreme – it takes six men of common birth to extend and retract them. In times of peace, they are typically left open, and so you simply walk inside, nodding to the Royal Guardsman at the palace gates – they cheer your passing, asking you how many enemies of Argos you have slain this week, but you only chuckle, waving their questions aside – these men are degenerate gamblers all, and you prefer not to become the subject of their wagers. You carry the Heraclidean armor on your back, safely packaged within a leather sack.

Your uncle, of course, is holding court within the megaron – the great central chamber and throneroom – of his palace. Adrastus sits in his throne, which have been carved in the style of the Mycenean throne - an enormous stone chair of expert construction. The king has aged well - as a man of close to seventy summers, he has maintained his strength and vitality, in part due to retaining his training regimen. His robes are pale blue, embroidered with gold thread, and his snow-white beard and hair is well-oiled. The throne room is illuminated by Helios’ brilliance, streaming in from above – the roofing shades having been retracted to banish the shadows. The megaron is vast, studded with powerful stone columns, and the walls are decorated with colorful friezes and mosaics depicting the founding of the city by Inachus, the quarreling twins Belos and Agenor… The more recent friezes illustrate the travels of Talaus and Oicles amongst the Argo, as well as Adrastus’ glorious return from Sicyon.

Your uncle is in the midst of a discussion between his advisors - but it must be a boring one, because he leaps off his throne at the sight of you:

"Hippomedon - as always, you arrive just in time to spare me yet another debate about the taxes paid to the High King. What do you bring with you?" As he speaks, he shoos at his advisors, who emit sighs of frustration before flitting away amongst the columns. Shifting the leather sack, you display the Heraclidean armor - Adrastus is quick to locate the matching holes in back and chest plates. Adrastus whistles softly, as he examines the damage further - "Clean punctures - the same cast?" You nod in assent, before he grins at you. "Gods above, Hippomedon - I thank Zeus every day that you were born an Argive. Now, tell me how you won the bronze." His tone is indulgent, but his eyes glitter with interest as you make your report about the raiding Dorians.

>cont

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“Idiot bastards,” your uncle remarks flatly. “The Heraclids gamble away their future to appease their domestic detractors. These scouting parties achieve nothing, although I can hardly refuse the gift of their bronze. A shame that they share their progenitor’s fecundity and have heirs aplenty to sacrifice every summer. I’ll scour the coasts for their vessels and double the patrols – the Dorians come in groups of four. But what brings you to the Palace, nephew?” His bushy eyebrows lower with interest.
You’re quick to explain what you have deduced about the marriage of Polynices and Argia – of the war that must now occur between Argos and Thebes. But before you begin to ask about the forces he will call upon, Adrastus holds up his mighty palm – “Hippomedon – please. Wait until the feast tonight – I will make the announcement there.” You bite your tongue, with difficulty.

“Why not visit with your wife until the feast? She arrived at the temple of Dionysus last night, as you well know.” Adrastus comments blandly – you do your best to hide your shock. You did not well know – you last saw her three nights hence in your own bedroom, and she had been absent when you rose to leave at dawn. You curse inwardly – no doubt she arose before you, took that damned stallion that she loves, and has been riding ahead of you ever since. How many times have you instructed her not to travel alone?! The same free spirit that you found so attractive before now makes you want to tear out your hair in frustration.

Adrastus clearly detects your irritation and intuits the source of it, adding wryly:

“Or perhaps, I will order you to bring your Heraclidean armor to the bronzesmiths, to have your man fitted? Sometimes, duty is a blessing, nephew. Oh, and I almost forget – your cousin Capaneus is due for a humbling. He’s been in the training yards accosting half of our guests for duels – he’s creating havoc! Consider providing him proper instruction in courtly behavior?” Your mood shifts at once, as a grin break out on your face – you have always enjoyed bloodying your over-bold rival.

>what do, /qst/? You have a free afternoon!

>Go to the Bronzesmith’s Quarter and have Argyros sized for his own bronze. With luck, they’ll have an existing set that can be modified for him.

>Visit with Euanippe, your wife, at the temple of Dionysus. What was she thinking? She gambled with her life riding by the Dorians – you could strangle her for her risk-taking!
>Find Capaneus in the training yards and teach him some manners – the brute only respects violence, and this you can provide him.

>Call upon Lord Amphiarus – you cannot shake the memory of your discussion before the funeral pyre. Odd of you to remember it after all these years, and you’ve not had a meaningful conversation with the man since that time. Perhaps he may speak more openly about his thoughts to a man fully grown.

>Something else?

>>5941375
It is interesting to read the different narrative voices, especially as it seems Hippo’s narrative voice is that he’s got a bit of a stick up his ass. Also, Nira might straight up have inherited something from Mom considering how often she heard voices in her head during her quest. Where is Nira anyways during this quest?

>Call upon Lord Amphiarus – you cannot shake the memory of your discussion before the funeral pyre. Odd of you to remember it after all these years, and you’ve not had a meaningful conversation with the man since that time. Perhaps he may speak more openly about his thoughts to a man fully grown.

Give me a seer option and I'll rush straight for the bastard.

Could Argyros go to the bronze smiths himself with the heraclidean armor?

>>5941375
>Visit with Euanippe, your wife, at the temple of Dionysus. What was she thinking? She gambled with her life riding by the Dorians – you could strangle her for her risk-taking!

>>5941388

>Where is Nira anyways during this quest?

Not born yet!

>Could Argyros go to the bronze smiths himself with the heraclidean armor?

Sadly, no - as a commoner man who is probsbly unknown to the bronzesmiths, he would need a noble sponsor like yourself to get him fitted. Bronze armor is incredibly valuable and it’s a bit like letting some rando walk into an army base and leave with a helicopter - you are something like a walking bank account/security pass/noble patron from Argyros’ perspective

>>5934999

>Wife at temple of Dionysus

Fair point about the armor. Our wife seems the most urgent; the Seer, Rival, & Bronze can wait. I like the description of our jolly uncle.

>>5941375
>>Visit with Euanippe, your wife, at the temple of Dionysus. What was she thinking? She gambled with her life riding by the Dorians – you could strangle her for her risk-taking!

>>5941375
Gah, so any cool things to do.

>Visit with Euanippe, your wife, at the temple of Dionysus. What was she thinking? She gambled with her life riding by the Dorians – you could strangle her for her risk-taking!

We sort of have a husbandly duty here, though, I guess.

>>5941375
>>Visit with Euanippe, your wife, at the temple of Dionysus. What was she thinking? She gambled with her life riding by the Dorians – you could strangle her for her risk-taking!
Damn it woman! You're lucky we love you. And there's so much to do, too. Hopefully Cappy won't break some dumb princeling's spine while we're out.

Bump! This vote will close at 12pm EST tomorrow

Lesches, I have a question: If we fail in our quest to create a powerful enough TIME PARADOX to resurrect Nikon, do you have any plans to revisit the Trojan War?

Honestly, I really just want to play the Trojan side of it because 1. Hektor is MY BOY, 2. I'm a huge fucking Romeaboo, and 3, building off of 2: I want to one-up that faggot Aeneas.

>>5942082
Rome being the successors of Trojans or Greece or the heroes of the Greek world is a Latin COPE. Reee.

>>5942085

I agree that it's cope, because the Latins were far superior to the fuckin boylovers that the classic greeks actually were.

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>>5942088
Well hey I have a gift for you, let me send it to you in the mail.

>>5941375
>Call upon Lord Amphiarus – you cannot shake the memory of your discussion before the funeral pyre. Odd of you to remember it after all these years, and you’ve not had a meaningful conversation with the man since that time. Perhaps he may speak more openly about his thoughts to a man fully grown.

>>5942082

This will be addressed in the narrative of SATQ and will likely come up before the end of this thread (or early in the beginning of thread 2). I don’t want to say anything more just yet!

Update will likely be posted by 10 PM EST tonight. Unfortunately, I have two separate projects that need to be completed before 9 AM tomorrow and that is going to slow me down

>>5942381
He's building a wall to keep the Argives out. And he's building the ladders to get over the Theban walls. This man does it all.

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See the Seer, dodge the wife

>>5941388
>>5942164

Go find Euanippe
>>5941391
>>5941417
>>5941456
>>5941475
>>5941488

---

Apologies for somewhat slower tempo this weekend. As an apology, find some absolutely based AI art of Hippomedon for your viewing pleasure.

>>5942545
Gat DAMN. Man doesn't need a breastplate when his muscles could chisel bronze. The horse on the shield is an awesome touch, too. The Thessalian Stallion. Even though he's an Argolid. That is definitely one of the better AI pieces I've seen.