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Previous Thread: https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/2023/5691682/

>The civilisation gets +45 Population..
>The civilisation gets +0.1% Rate of Growth.
>The civilisation gets +0.05 Culture.
>The civilisation gets +0.02 Militarism.
>The civilisation gets +5 Productivity and Security.
>The civilisation gets -5 Equality and Happiness.

The frustrated warriors of the Vuvovic are put to work punishing the Grovic. They are organised into hunting parties and sent into the great Grascan, where they follow the tracks of these roving thieves to their hideaways. Those who survive these raids are brought back as slaves, to serve the Protavic by performing the most menial and backbreaking tasks.

The blood-drinkers become quite accustomed to their new role as slavers, which leads to developments that some of the tribe consider unpleasant. During the most peaceful years, the Vuvovic slake their thirst by ritually slaughtering some of the slaves and drinking their sticky brown blood. They consider them their property to do as they please with – after all, they were their ones who caught most of them – and the rest of the tribe is too intimidated to put a stop to this new tradition.

A generation passes.

These slave-catching expeditions often lead to the Vuvovic disappearing for months at a time as they venture out into the wilderness. Their travels take them far away from the Croglatol and in the worst cases, they can end up lost in the Grascan for years or never return at all. This leads to the development of way-finding techniques and even primitive maps among the blood-drinkers, who would rather not lose more of their warriors to the forest.

>The civilisation gets -1% Scavic – Vuvovic (Warrior Caste) Population.
>The civilisation gets +0.05 Technology.

As their travels take them further and further from the Croglatol, the tribe gains a better understanding of land beyond the lake. The further north they venture, the colder it is. The further south they venture, the warmer it is. Though some parts are hillier than others, the all-encompassing woodland makes it difficult to distinguish one part of the Grascan from any other.

The most notable landmarks are rivers, which serve as habitats for many other tribes who make their settlements along their banks. Though there are countless streams that flow through the forest, only four of them are large enough to be of major note, and each of them serves as a home for thousands of Scavic tribesmen.

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The distance between the Protavic and these tribes is so great that it is difficult to engage in any sort of regular contact. Nevertheless, the beast-bringers could make an effort, if they want their influence to stretch beyond the shores of the Croglatol. Access to the great river that leads west from the lake would make this a lot easier but unfortunately, our tribe is not on good terms with the Toprocravic these days and they have absolute control over that region of the Croglatol.

The Protavic could promote trade with these tribes. It will be difficult and any traders will to travel such distances will likely require the aid of the Vuvovic, but any exotic goods they obtain from these tribes will be worth it.

The Protavic could raid these tribes for slaves. Considering the great distance between the beast-bringers and these savages, our tribe shouldn't have to worry about any sort of counterattack. They're just another easy source of manpower.

The Protavic could send forth a great expedition. Our tribe cannot limit itself to a single region, it must spread elsewhere. A quarter of the tribe shall prepare for travel and venture far away from the Croglatol, to find a new home.

The Protavic could disregard the outside world. These other tribes and places are so far away that there is no point in wasting effort on any of them. The beast-bringers should focus solely on the Croglatol for now.

>Promote trade with these tribes.
>Raid these tribes for slaves.
>Send forth a great expedition.
>Disregard the outside world.

>Disregard the outside world.

Blissful Isolation. Simple as. Don’t want to empower the blood-drinking idiots even more. Better off growing our population and developing the lake Civ.

>>5735955
>Raid these tribes for slaves.
We could raid for goods aswell, perhaps they have unique goods which we could trade with our neighbouring tribes.

>>5735955
>Promote trade with these tribes.

What a wonderful morning to be back on the Croglatol gentlemen!!!

Look I’m with the guy who wants us to focus on development of the lake, but we should still do what we do best. Trade! Exotic goods and knowledge of some technology outside our immediate area could be well worth the cost of losing men. I still think we don’t expand or put any serious resources into anything beyond our Great Lake, but a trade route for sure.

>>5735955
>Promote trade with these tribes.

>>5735955
>Promote trade with these tribes.

>>5735955
>Raid these tribes for slaves.
We must grow more powerful

>>5735955
>>Promote trade with these tribes.
Just caught up. Nice quest OP.

>>5735955
>>Raid these tribes for slaves.
welcome back op

Locking the vote there.

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>The civilisation gets +0.05 Culture.
>The civilisation gets +5 Prosperity and Happiness.
>The civilisation gets -5 Equality and Productivity.

Many enterprising tribesmen decide to accompany the Vuvovic on their expeditions, with the blessings of the tribe's leaders. They bring the luxuries of the Protavic people with them, to be exchanged for whatever exotic goods these distant tribes can provide. Their endeavours are usually successful – these traders typically return with extravagant furs, amber jewellery and colourful dyes, which they offer to the rest of the tribe in exchange for their goods.

In the past, anyone could travel across or around the Croglatol in order to sell the goods that they produced, but these individuals represent a new merchant class who devote their lives to the trading of goods. They produce nothing of their own, they just spend their lives buying and selling the wealth of others, which has proven to be a very profitable lifestyle. With every year that passes, the wealth of these traders grows – and that of the humble swineherd diminishes.

A generation passes.

Our tribe is not the only one that is exploiting the world beyond the Croglatol. The Toprocravic have made good use of the westward river – known as the Choslitol – and must be either trading with the tribes further downstream or raiding them. They have acquired all sorts of pearls, seashells and coral which they are using to shock and awe the other tribes, to earn their favour and challenge the mercantile supremacy of the Protavic people.

Something must be done.

The Protavic could stop trading with the sealskins. Our tribe will refuse to play their game. They will not be allowed to charm the Protavic people with trinkets and baubles, nor will they be allowed to benefit from our tribe's wealth.

The Protavic could demand the tribes to pick a side. An envoy will be sent to each of the clans, to tell them to stop trading with the sealskins if they want to continue doing business with our tribe. This may upset the Toprocravic.

The Protavic could declare war on the sealskins. The Toprocravic cannot be allowed to become a bigger problem than they already are. It's time for our tribe to put an end to them and their seal-clubbing ways.

The Protavic could heal the rift between our tribes. There's no need for any sort of rivalry between the sealskins and the beast-bringers – the Croglatol is big enough for everyone. Hopefully a few gifts will smooth things over.

>Stop trading with the sealskins.
>Demand the tribes to pick a side.
>Declare war on the sealskins.
>Heal the rift between our tribes.

>>5736173
>Demand the tribes to pick a side.

The Drocravic and Bodravic may still be wary of the Toprocravic’s conquering of the smoke people. The Rodac are our staunch Allies, and the Scagravic don’t trade much at all anyway.

Hopefully this not only cuts the Toprocravic wealth from growing, but boxes them in to the point that they declare war on us. If they do that then we’re simply defending ourselves and can unleash the vuvovic on them and take their territory while still claiming the moral high ground.

>>5736173
>Heal the rift between our tribes.
We have the prosperity to tank it.

>>5736173
>Heal the rift between our tribes.

>>5736173
>Heal the rift between our tribes.

>>5736182
The Rodac are also their allies. This could mean they help them since we're the attacker, or they stay neutral.

>>5736173
>Declare war on the sealskins.
I would've picked healing the rift, but I don't think it's gonna be effective. We might aswell declare war. It won't be an easy war depending on who supports who, but seeing how it plays out is the fun part.

>>5736252
I think it was made pretty clear at the end of the feast that the Rodac are closer to us and would pick us if it came to it.

>>5736349
Oh and
>Demand the tribes to pick a side

>>5736173
>Demand the tribes to pick a side.

Failing this, declare war

Why are we healing the rift with an ostracised tribe.

If anything, we should be preparing to invade and assimilate them now that our domestic situation has stabilised

>>5736173
>>Declare war on the sealskins.
we must end this threat before it takes root and destroys us.

>>5736173

The Protavic could demand the tribes to pick a side

>>5736173
>>Demand the tribes to pick a side.
then depending on the results:
>>Declare war on the sealskins.

Locking the vote there.

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>The civilisation gets +5 Cohesion.
>The civilisation gets -10 Prosperity.

Envoys are sent to each of the tribes. They go with a clear message: Anyone who continues to deal with the Toprocravic is not a friend of the Protavic people. An emissary is sent to the sealskins as well, to inform them that the beast-bringers want nothing to do with them. Any Vuvovic who aren't out on expeditions into the Grascan are stationed along our tribe's border with the Toprocravic, to ensure that the sealskins stay out of Protavic land.

The messenger sent to the Rodac is the first to return, and he carries good news – the stone men will honour their friendship with the beast-bringers and refuse to trade with the Toprocravic from now on, though they regret that they had to choose between their two closest allies. Not long after that, the envoy that was sent to the Scagravic comes back with a similar promise from the tree-dwellers. It isn't like they barter with anyone other than the Protavic in the first place, so they lose nothing.

Unfortunately, the emissary sent to the light-bringers eventually returns with bad news – the Drocravic have chosen to side with the Toprocravic and will no longer be trading with our tribe. While their neighbour might have recently been conquered by the sealskins, they were already on poor terms with the Protavic. Perhaps they believe that if they align themselves with the boatmen, they will not need to worry about being conquered.

As for the envoy sent to the Bodravic, he returns with a report of indecision from the wood-burners. While they are afraid of being conquered by their Rodac neighbours and they might seek to appease them, they are undoubtedly aware that their light-bringing allies have sided with the sealskins. They have a difficult decision to make and they seem eager to put it off for as long as possible.

Finally, there are the the sealskins themselves – the messenger that our tribe sent to them doesn't return at all. However, the sudden absence of Toprocravic traders makes it clear that they received the message, which means that the envoy was likely executed. That is their answer.

Our tribe could sweeten the deal with the wood-burners. An onslaught of gifts should hopefully be enough to convince them to side with the Protavic.

Our tribe could condemn the indecision of the Bodravic. By making enemies out of the wood-burners, our tribe may strengthen its bond with the Rodac.

Our tribe could wait for an answer from the wood-burners. While the Protavic cannot afford to bribe them, there is no need to push them into the arms of the sealskins.

Our tribe could declare war on the sealskins. This is the ideal moment to launch an attack. Not all of the Vuvovic are currently available, but our tribe cannot afford to wait.

>Sweeten the deal with the wood-burners.
>Condemn the indecision of the Bodravic.
>Wait for an answer from the wood-burners.
>Declare war on the sealskins.

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Here is the latest map of the geopolitical map of the Croglatol.

>>5736577

declare war on the sealskins

Before that ask our allies if they want to join in.

Nice that you are back. ThreeUpdates made my day op!

>>5736577
>Recall all Vuvovic and forbid future expeditions - we strike soon
>Wait for an answer from the wood-burners.

>>5736577
>Declare war on the sealskins

This is outrageous! We must take immediate action, gather the Vuvovic and launch an immediate assault. Seize the north shore of the river and split their territory in half!

>>5736698
Support

>>5736577
>Declare war on the sealskins

They executed our envoy. That's fighting actions. Seize the northern shore!

>>5736577
>>Declare war on the sealskins.
northern side of river will be ours, at the least

>>5736577
>Wait for an answer from the wood-burners.
war anons are jumping the gun too soon

>>5736641
+1

>>5736641
+1

>>5736577
i'll switch >>5736841
to support >>5736641
"semimurderhobo"anon

Enter a Special Situation: The Toprocravic Troubles.

The leaders of the Protavic people are trouble. Though the majority of them agree that the time for war has come again, they disagree about how they should go about it. Some call for the absolute annihilation of the Toprocravic tribe, while others only want to seize the northern shore so that our clan will be able to exploit the Choslitol in the future.

There is also the matter of how long the Protavic should wait. Right now, only forty of our tribe's ninety-five Vuvovic warriors are available, as the rest are busy catching slaves and guarding expeditions throughout the Grascan. Though the strength of the blood-drinkers has not truly been tested in living memory, some of the families believe that the Vuvovic will determine the outcome of this war.

On the other hand, other leaders aren't so sure. If the Protavic people wait for too long, then the Bodravic may decide to side with the sealskins, which may spur the Toprocravic to take action against our tribe. By waiting for all of the blood-drinkers to return, our tribe may be leaving itself open and allowing its enemies to make the first move. These warriors are not so valuable that the Protavic should leave themselves vulnerable, or so these families argue.

There is also the matter of our tribe's allies. The Scragravic are isolationists who almost certainly won't involve themselves, but the Rodac are another matter entirely. If our tribe calls upon them, the stone men will likely answer the call, though they may not be pleased with the prospect of fighting the sealskins, who were their friends until recent months.

Our tribe could wait for the Vuvovic to return. Having the full force of the Vuvovic at our tribe's disposal may turn the tide of battle, or at the very least minimise our tribe's casualties.

Our tribe could launch the assault immediately. By striking first, our tribe will not have to worry about any raids from the Toprocravic or the Bodravic getting involve in this conflict.

>Wait for the Vuvovic to return.
>Launch the assault immediately.

Our tribe could ask the Rodac to attack the Toprocravic. The sealskins are the greatest threat by far – the stone men might not like it, but our tribe needs their aid.

Our tribe could ask the Rodac to assault the Drocravic. The stone men can occupy the fire-worshippers while our tribe takes on the sealskins.

Our tribe could inform the Rodac of our intentions. The beast-bringers shouldn't ask the stone men to get involved, but they can honour their friendship by keeping them informed.

Our tribe could keep the Rodac out of this conflict. Involving another tribe in the coming war might just screw things up. Our clan should keep the stone men out of this.

>Ask the Rodac to attack the Toprocravic.
>Ask the Rodac to assault the Drocravic.
>Inform the Rodac of our intentions.
>Keep the Rodac out of this conflict.

>>5737613
>Wait for the Vuvovic to return.
>Ask the Rodac to assault the Drocravic.

>>5737613
>Launch the assault immediately.
>Ask the Rodac to attack the Toprocravic.
The busy Vuvovic who are hunting the Grovic should gather at the forest border of the Toprocravic and launch an assault from there (instead of gathering in our territority and reinforcing our army). This way they could potentially flank our enemy and cause confusion.

>>5737613
>Launch the assault immediately
The Toprocravic know this is coming, they knew what would happen as soon as they murdered our envoy. Any delay only serves to give them more time to prepare. Not only that, but if we wait, we give the Drocravic more time to declare against us, whereas if we act now, they may be too afraid of reprisal by the Rodac to join in.

>Keep the Rodac out of this conflict

I believe we can win by ourselves and asking them to join will put a huge strain in our new friendship, whereas leaving them out of it will help it greatly. Keeping them out of the war will also lead to great uncertainty with the Drocravic. Not knowing the Rodac’s intentions, the Drocravic will be very wary of attacking us lest that become the trigger which takes the Rodac into the war.

Lastly…from a practical standpoint, the Rodac are our eventual rivals for control over the Croglatol. I believe that if we inform them of our intentions they’ll piggy back on our war to consume the Drocravic. Giving them as little opportunity as possible to expand themselves is a big plus for us going forward.

>>5737613
>Launch the assault immediately.

>Inform the Rodac of our intentions.

>>5737613
>>Wait for the Vuvovic to return.
>Inform the Rodac of our intentions.

>>5737613
>Wait for the Vuvovic to return.

They know we’re coming - so we should come at them with our full strength

>Inform the Rodac of our intentions.

They can then decide on their next steps

>>5737974
+1

>>5737613
>Launch the assault immediately.
>Inform the Rodac of our intentions.

Where is OP??

>>5738790
don’t worry he paces himself. It’s sometimes every day, sometimes every other day, rarely every three days.

>>5737974
+1

After already pressuring the stone people to take sides, it would be unwise to make further demands of them so soon

I believe they will remember and honor our relationship thus far.


If the Vuvovic are a warrior caste, they should be utilized as such - not giving them the opportunity to fight might be a slight. Besides, the Vuvovic respect tough adversaries, and the boaters have proven to be a multi-generational foe worthy of blood-drinking

>>5737974
+1

>>5737613
>only 95 Vuvovic warriors remain
I believe we should launch a Vuvovic repopulation program

Locking the vote.

It is decided. The stone men will be informed of our tribe's intentions but they shall not be involved in the conflict to come. There is no need for the Protavic to test the limits of their alliance with the Rodac, especially so soon as it was forged in the first place.

As for the Vuvovic, the beast-bringers shall wait until they have returned and able to bring their full strength to bear against the sealskins. There is no way of how being certain how long it will take them to return – navigating the Grascan is a perilous endeavour and it often takes months for these expeditions to return with slaves and exotic goods. But until all of the blood-drinkers have assembled, the Protavic tribe will not go to war.

Until then, the Vuvovic warriors are available shall be stationed by our tribe's border with the sealskins. However, waiting comes with potential risks – the possibility of Toprocravic raids. Thanks to their mastery of boats, they could strike anywhere they wish, at any point. The beast-bringers will need to be alert, armed and prepared if they are to stand any hope of fending off potential raiders.

There's a problem with that plan. The tribe has grown large enough that it will suffer if everyone capable of fighting is mobilised, even for a short period of time. Who will slaughter the swine, harvest the honey or craft new tools if everyone is busy watching the shoreline for any sign of raiders, bows and spears in hand? This issue is exacerbated by the fact that our tribe may have to wait for months for the blood-drinkers to return. Can the Protavic people afford to remain vigilant and ready to defend themselves from raiders for that long?

Our tribe could spread defenders across our territory. Without any knowledge of where the sealskins might strike, any defenders should be evenly distributed across our territory.

Our tribe could focus on the defence of the border. Any defenders that are mustered should be stationed at our border. This won't stop raiders, but it should thwart a major assault.

Our tribe could only muster when it is time to attack. The Protavic cannot afford to maintain a constant state of vigilance for months. They will prepare themselves when the time is right.

>Spread defenders across our territory.
>Focus on the defence of the border.
>Only muster when it is time to attack.

Our tribe could rely on the blood-drinkers alone. This is what the Vuvovic live for, they do not need any aid.

Our tribe could muster a third of the reserves. A token force supporting the blood-drinkers should be enough.

Our tribe could muster two thirds of the reserves. A significant chunk of the tribe will be mobilised for this conflict.

Our tribe could muster all of the reserves. Our tribe shall overwhelm its foes, no matter the consequences.

>Rely on the blood-drinkers alone.
>Muster a third of the reserves.
>Muster two thirds of the reserves.
>Muster all of the reserves.

>>5739262
>Focus on the defence of the border.

They haven’t raided us yet, nor have we attacked them.

The lack of an immediate invasion may actually make them doubt that an attack is coming and may think that this is just a trade embargo.

Further, any raids give us more moral justification to start a conflict.

>Muster two thirds of the reserves.

Overwhelm them.

>>5739262
>Focus on the defence of the border

There is nothing to indicate an attack is coming from their direction anytime soon; right now it's mostly a trade disagreement (apart from the whole execution of the messenger business).

Their whole spiel seems to be subterfuge - nibbling here and there, dazzling with trinkets, smuggling people in secret...even when they took over the smoke people, they precipitated the invasion with a elevated degree of caution - making sure in advance nobody would intervene. Hell, they even agreed to pay us for not intervening, is that a hallmark of a mighty military?

If these were the type of people that were prone to fast, blitzkrieg-type invasions, I would have gathered that they would have done one in the aftermath of the feast - being left out in such a manner is as big of a slap in the face as it can get. Everything tells me that even if they would dare to attack it would necessitate finding new allies and resources, most of which takes time.

The only thing we don't know is who they've made contact with beyond Croglatol.

>Muster a third of the reserves.

With respect to all of the above, I believe all we need right now is a token force to show we are serious and wait for the Vuvovic warriors. Given how much the boaters hate the Vuvovic warriors, I believe they also harbor a (mostly) irrational fear, so their presence could pose a psychological advantage.

It's one thing to club seals, another to club a man.

P.S. if the tree burners ever decide to pledge their allegiance to the boaters, we would have something to amp up the tree-dwellers with and bring them into the conflict, if need be

>>5739262
>Only muster when it is time to attack.
While the Topocravic murdered our messenger, we haven't officially declared war on them in return. I find it therefore unlikely the Topocravic will attack us first, else they would have already done that.

>Muster a third of the reserves.
Try to mobilise those from the Vuvovic or mixed Vuvovic-Protavic demographics, they are best compatible with our warrior caste ethics.

>>5739262
>Spread defenders across our territory

Their great advantage over us is their mobility across the Croglatol, it should be curbed as much as possible.

>Muster two thirds of the reserves.

It will be painful, but we don’t actually know…
A. How much the Toprocravic have grown down the great river.

B. Which tribes they may have met down and along the river which they could recruit.


More warriors now means a bigger hit to the economy now, but also means a shorter war and a much quicker return to economic activity.

>>5739314
+1

>>5739262
>Focus on the defence of the border.
>Muster all of the reserves.
This is a fight for the future. We need them all

>>5739262
>Focus on the defence of the border.
>Muster a third of the reserves.

>>5739272
+1

Locking the vote there.

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In order to defend against any significant assault that the Toprocravic tribe may launch, the leaders of the Protavic people decide to muster a third of the tribe's able-bodied men and women, who shall watch over the border and be prepared to fight against any invaders. Once all of the blood-drinkers have returned from their expeditions, they shall launch an attack on the territory of the sealskins with the aid of these warriors.

Once these plans have been made, they are put into action. A messenger is sent to the stone men, to inform them of our tribe's intentions. The tribe's most eager and loyal warriors are called upon to defend the border and remain vigilant. After that, there is nothing left for the tribe to do other than wait for the return of the Vuvovic.

Time passes.

Over three hundred and fifty men and women have abandoned their usual tasks in order to guard the border. They do not contribute anything to the tribe during this period, yet they still need to be fed, clothed, sheltered and armed. While the tribe isn't crippled by this burden, it does make life harder for the Protavic people.

>The civilisation gets -10 Prosperity and Productivity.

The envoy that was sent to the Rodac returns in a timely fashion, with a simple response – the stone men acknowledge the intentions of the beast-bringers and they shall not attempt to obstruct our tribe's conquest of sealskin territory. They wish the Protavic good fortune, but they will not them in the coming conflict. This is to be expected – they had strong ties with the Toprocravic people until they were forced to make a decision.

A month later, the Bodravic finally make up their minds – they will continue trading with the sealskins, even if it means an end to their friendship with our tribe. The wood-burners stop visiting the beast-bringers and in return, the Protavic people stop sending traders to their territory. It is unfortunate, but their minds cannot be changed now.

>The civilisation gets -5 Prosperity.

Less than a week after the leaders of our tribe receive this message, it happens.

On a drizzly spring morning, not longer after dawn, a few tribesmen along the northernmost shore spot a swarm of shapes drifting across the surface of the Croglatol. As they draw closer to the lakeside, it becomes clear what they are – sealskin raiders rowing across the lake in their canoes, armed with bows and cudgels, intent on pillaging the lands of the beast-bringers. There must be over a hundred of them, perhaps even two hundred.

Those who were fortunate enough to spot these marauders run back to their villages to sound the alarm. Many of the tribesmen prepare to flee with their belongings, while others arm themselves and prepare to defend their homes from these opportunists.

>Give me three rolls of dice+1d100. I'll accept the best of three.
>You will need to beat a target number of 84. The more you beat it by, the greater your victory. The more you lose by, the greater your loss.

Rolled 86 (1d100)

>>5740139
Roll against the sealkillers

Rolled 91 (1d100)

>>5740139

Rolled 27 (1d100)

>>5740139

>>5740139
We need to eradicate the Topocravic and assimilate their territories
We stopped their first assault, the Vuvovic should be back by the time we're done and then we mobilise our forces and vanquish the sealfucks

>>5740170

should we risk all to take all, or should we just kill as many as possible, and occupy the northern shore?
i cant decide

i mean, an isolated colony on the southern shore would be very open to attacks, and slow to reinforce. but on the other side, not finishing them off will inevitably lead to retaliation

>>5740255
>>5740268
First let's see what the tribe leaders deliberate after this first repelled invasion. It was a difficult roll, thankfully we beat them but a +6 will probably be a Close Victory and some casualties are inevitable.

First step in a Topocravic war would be conquering the North shore either way. At that point it's almost sure the shitskins will summon their fire allies. If that happens the Rodac will need to get involved and we need to obliterate all remaining opposition in the Southwest shore.
>an isolated colony on the southern shore would be very open to attacks, and slow to reinforce
Don't forget that the Topocravic opened up unknown trade routes to the west alongside the river, they could be getting reinforcements from there. If we strike we must strike hard and remove them from the shores of Croglatol entirely.

I agree that we must finish this war all the way, north and south shore. The Drocrovic chose the sealskins over us in a trade war but I highly, highly doubt they have the courage to make war on the southern river bank if we occupy it, we would be five times their size and since they are already in a prickly situation with the Rodac, they’d have to worry about them coming in to the war on our side as well. It would be suicide.

As far as down the river, we simply replace their mercantile infrastructure with ours and then do what we do best. Bring beasts and make peace.

The concerning thing to me is if we win the war. We want to assimilate them, but our equality is in the red, and I’m %100 sure that if we don’t improve it some way, then assimilating the sealskins would throw us below 20 and lead to a special disaster.

We need to plan ahead as to some sort of middle road we might take with their tribe. I mean it’s not like we always hated each other, we were friends once, and I know it makes anon’s stomachs turn to offer good peace terms to a foe we will have defeated but.

A. They are of the same mercantile spirit we are, so we have a large area of social overlap.

B. Absorbing them without total assimilation will make for better and easier transfer of their water-faring ways, which will be an enormous benefit seeing as how the Grascan is so fucking hostile. Ii honestly believe if we control the lakes and rivers we will grow the richest, the fastest.

So tribal elder anons, please consider absorbing them as an equal like the Vuvovic instead of pure assimilation.

>>5740382
i think we should kill all the men and boys, and divide out the babymakers to those who want them. if any are left over, we can sell them downriver

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>The Protavic win against the Toprocravic by a difference of 7 – they achieve a Costly Victory.

>The civilisation gets -12 Population and Military Reserves.
>The civilisation gets -20 Military Reserves until the end of the Special Situation.

Glochil of the Chupac is a young man that no one ever thought highly of. His branch of the family have never been particularly wealthy or influential – they don't own any beasts or beehives, so they survive by catching fish. Every morning, he ventures down to the lakeside at the crack of dawn and spends the day casting his line into the water, in the hopes that he will catch enough fish to keep himself and his siblings from going hungry.

Except on this morning, he saw those distant shapes floating on the Croglatol and knew that something was wrong. He raced back to his village and warned them of the impending raid long before the sealskins landed. By the time they arrived at the shoreline, over a hundred beast-bringers were waiting for them, armed and ready to defend their homes from the marauders. The Toprocravic were not prepared for such an organised defence.

By the time that the sealskins flee back into their canoes, over thirty of them lie dead on the shore of our tribe's territory and almost twenty of them are wounded. A similar number of the Protavic people are injured, but only ten of them were killed in battle. These beast-bringers fought with the strength of the blood-drinkers and indeed, many of them follow the traditions of the Vuvovic, even though they do not belong to the warrior caste. They draw the still-warm blood from the bodies of the dead so that they may drink it, while those who are wounded are taken captive so that they may be ritually slaughtered.

When reports of this raid reach the force assembled by the border, the Vuvovic soldiers are equal parts impressed and incensed. They admire the strength of these beast-bringers, yet at the same time they insist that the blood of our tribe's enemies belong to them and them alone. They wish for these captives to be brought to them so that they may perform the ritual sacrifice and gorge themselves on their blood instead.

The issue is that many of the reserves mustered along the borders also follow the blood-drinking ways, and they may be upset that this privilege will be reserved exclusively for the warrior caste. Not only that, but some of our tribe's leaders insist that there may be better uses for the captives.

Our tribe could limit blood-drinking to the warrior caste. These captives will be delivered to the Vuvovic soldiers. The blood of any warrior slain or captured by our tribe belongs to them.

Our tribe could allow the meritocratic drinking of blood. Anyone who kills an enemy of the Protavic people owns the blood of the foe that they slew. It is theirs to drink, should they wish to.

Our tribe could offer to return captives for a ransom. Not only will this allow our tribe to recoup some of its economic losses, but it might throw the sealskins off-guard.

Our tribe could give captives the chance to join our tribe. They will be given the chance to contribute to the Protavic people and learn the ways of the beast-bringers.

Our tribe could force them to serve as chattel slaves. Their labour that they will provide shall make up for the sheer number of Protavic tribesmen waiting by the border.

>Limit blood-drinking to the warrior caste.
>Allow the meritocratic drinking of blood.
>Offer to return captives for a ransom.
>Give captives the chance to join our tribe.
>Force them to serve as chattel slaves.

>>5740382
I think 25 in Equality is pretty ok for a Neolithic tribe. Slaves and a circle of elder leaders are not the most equalitarian but they are perfectly acceptable in our historical conditions.

Integrating the sealshits as equals will never get rid of their discontent. Just like when we absorbed the singers and the spear throwers, their descendants kept harboring resentment for generations, and at the end they defected either to the Topocravic or to the forest, while the rest became fully Protavic.

Vuvovic were integrated in different conditions: not as a defeated foe but as an ally that lost their territory, saved from extinction by our intervention in their war.

I see your point with the water ways, but OP said that integration is not necessary to learn the technological advancements of other tribes. If we integrated them we would mostly open our culture to their barbaric practices e.g. seal clubbing which goes directly against our belief in the Drocrom. We assimilate them, we learn kayaking, they become Protavic and we become the most powerful civilization around the Croglatol.
>Rodacian copper weapons
>Vuvovic blood drinking warriors
>Topocravic canoes
>Explorers going North through the forest, West alongside the Choslitol and East alongside the river
At that point we will be ready to expand further imo

>>5740437
>>Allow the meritocratic drinking of blood.

>>5740437
>Limit blood-drinking to the warrior caste.
But I would add:
>If the Vuvovic consider the beast bringers warriors worthy, they integrate them into their warrior caste.

>>5740450
Support, any reserves which prove theirselves worthy should be able to join the warrior caste.

>>5740450
Yea it’s time, we have a significant Protavic-Vuvovic minority, tell the Vuvovic to open the rolls of their warrior caste to any of them that prove themselves.

In addition, make it clear that even though we are opening the rolls to the Vuvovic, it is the original Vuvovic’s decision as to who joins, and blood drinking is limited to their privilege alone.

>>5740477
Yes precisely

>>5740450
if this is possible, I support this option

>>5740450
Supporting

>>5740450
+1

>>5740450
+1, makes sense.

>>5740437
>Allow the meritocratic drinking of blood.

>>5740437
>Allow the meritocratic drinking of blood.

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>The civilisation gets +0.05 Culture.
>The civilisation gets -5 Happiness.

A bargain is struck. Though the blood of our tribe's enemies shall belong exclusively to the Vuvovic, the blood-drinkers must recruit those who prove themselves worthy in their eyes. They shall be the ultimate arbiters of who deserves the privilege and who does not, yet they must become more than a stagnant bloodline, a tribe within a tribe.

While the leaders of the Vuvovic are satisfied with this decision – as are the warriors who have proven themselves worthy – many of the tribesmen who wish to practise blood-drinking are disappointed. While some of them aspire to prove themselves in battle and join the ranks of the blood-drinkers, others resent the warrior caste for the many privileges that they have accumulated.

Once the captive sealskins have been sacrificed and their essence has been consumed by the blood-drinkers, the chiefs of the tribe gather to discuss the raid, and how the Protavic should respond to such a brazen assault. It is likely that the Toprocravic were emboldened by the decision of the Bodravic to join their side. Perhaps they believe that they stand a chance against our tribe, now that they have the backing of both of the fire-worshipping clans, or maybe the wood-burners have been conspiring with them from the beginning. Alternatively, they may have spotted beast-bringing warriors amassing along the border and decided to strike where our tribe's defences were lacking.

In the end, the leaders of the Protavic people decide to stick to the plan – the most appropriate reprisal would be the conquest of sealskin territory. All they need to do is wait for the return of the Vuvovic expeditions.

It takes another month before all of the blood-drinkers return. The Toprocravic don't dare to launch another raid, not after their initial attempt was thwarted by the Chupac family. Instead, Protavic scouts spot signs of the sealskins gathering in great numbers across the border – at least five hundred of them, if not six. They know that our tribe is coming and they are prepared to push us back, no matter the cost.

While the sealskins might have quantity of their side, the Protavic people have the advantage of quality. When the assault begins, almost a hundred blood-drinkers serve as the spearhead of the assault, with three hundred and fifty beast-bringers at their backs. They charge across the border and fill their air with their blood-curdling war cries – they are all too eager to bury their copper-tipped spears into enemies. This is what they were born for.

>Give me three rolls of dice+1d100. I'll accept the best of three.
>You will need to beat a target number of 43. The more you beat it by, the greater your victory. The more you lose by, the greater your loss.

Rolled 91 (1d100)

>>5741164

Rolled 89 (1d100)

>>5741164

>>5741164
dice+1d100

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Rolled 51 (1d100)

>>5741164
GET YER HEAD COLLAPSED, SEALFUCKERS

>>5741186
>>5741192
We drinking seal blood now boys.

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>The Protavic win against the Toprocravic by a difference of 48 – they achieve a Decisive Victory.

>The civilisation gets -4 Population.
>The civilisation gets -3 Military Reserves.
>The civilisation gets -1 Standing Military.
>The civilisation gets -6 Military Reserves until the end of the Special Situation.
>The civilisation gets -1 Standing Military until the end of the Special Situation.

Perhaps it is the gruesome reputation of the blood-drinkers, or maybe it's how fearsome they seem as they charge across the lakeside, shrieking at the top of their lungs. No matter the cause, the Toprocravic defenders break before the first blow is struck. It starts with a handful of warriors who turn and run, only to stumble into the tribesmen who were behind them. This terror proves to be contagious – soon hundreds of the sealskins are tripping over each other as they try to flee.

What follows isn't a battle, but a slaughter. The blood-drinkers barrel into the routed rabble and cut a bloody swathe through them – the sound of their crazed laughter and clamorous prayers almost drown out the screams of their victims. The beast-bringers arrive soon after the Vuvovic and while they don't fight with the same insane fervour, the Protavic act with cunning and guile. They surround and subdue lone many of the Toprocravic before they can flee, and a great deal of those who are able to run are shot down before they can escape.

When the bloodshed is over, our tribe's dead can be counted on a single hand, while the wounded can be counted on two. The same can not be said for the sealskins – over a hundred and twenty of the Toprocravic have been slain, while almost two hundred of them are grievously injured. Less than half of them managed to escape and run down the northern bank of the Choslitol – those who tried to flee across the river were slain as they tried to climb into their canoes.

While the Vuvovic make themselves busy by draining the nectar that flows through the veins of their captives, the leaders of the tribe convene to discuss the next move. Tradil Val, one of the chief blood-drinkers, claims responsibility for this victory and suggests that the Protavic should pursue the survivors downstream, but some of the family heads disagree.

Our tribe could settle for this victory. The Protavic tribe has just seized control of the primary territory of the Toprocravic. That is good enough.

Our tribe could pursue the survivors. The beast-bringers should purge any trace of the sealskins from the northern bank of the Choslitol.

Our tribe could assault the southern shore. Our tribe's warriors should cross the river and claim the land that once belonged to the smoke people.

Our tribe could divide and conquer. The blood-drinkers will chase the sealskins who fled from battle, while the beast-bringers will cross the river.

>Settle for this victory.
>Pursue the survivors.
>Assault the southern shore.
>Divide and conquer.

>>5741299
>Divide and conquer.
With such a decisive victory I'm confident that our non-Vuvoic warriors are able to defeat what's left on the southern shore.

>>5741299
>>Assault the southern shore.

>>5741299
>Pursue the survivors.

Let’s be methodical here, there are about 400 toprocravic left on the northern shore. The vuvovic alone would be outnumbered 4:1 not even mentioning any Allie’s that could be coming. Make the northern shore secured and the south will be easy.

Also I’d suggest we send an envoy to the Drocravic by boat and ask their intentions. They’ve chosen the sealskins in the trade war but that doesn’t mean they’re willing to fight with them.

>>5741299
>>Pursue the survivors.

>>5741299
Tough choice.
>Pursue the survivors.
We purge and we move on to the southern shore.
We could assault the shore directly but I'm prone to listening to the Vuvovic. Securing the area and leaving no loose ends sounds like a good idea.
Divide and conquer could kill two birds with one stone but it could backfire badly if we get unlucky with the dice. Also the expression technically means that the divided one gets conquered and that doesn't sound very auspicious.
>>5741364
>send an envoy to the Drocravic by boat and ask their intentions
I support this

>>5741364
>Send an envoy to the Drocravic
Supporting this if we can propose to them to stay neutral while we "liberate" their previous neighbours the smoke people.

>>5741164
Can the chosen fighter go thru a ritual that involves drinking some Vuvovic blood?

>>5741299
>Pursue the survivors.

>>5741364
Supporting this

Can we take some of the non-critically wounded Toprocravic as slaves or war brides?

Sacrificing hundreds of able-bodied workers and mothers seems like a waste.

>>5741299
>Pursue the survivors.
One of the anons is right, we must be thorough with our victory. We can take care of the southern coast later on, for now, we've secured the goal of upriver trade.

This brings me to a question I want to discuss with the other anons. What do we do with the Vuvovic? We have tolerated their blood-drinking and unique nature in our tribe, but I think it's highly time we bring our blood-hounds completely into the fold and turn them into a martial order, lest they assume too much power in the tribe. I came up with an interesting ritual and theological explanation for their further inclusion.

If beings have Drocrom which in a constant cycle of release and consumption, one cannot fault the Vuvovic for consuming the blood of their enemies, but such practice is too rudimentary. It is the Protavic who realised the beauty of refinement, it is the Protavic who harnessed the Drocrom into honey and the holy drink butol.

But one cannot completely ignore the blood-drinking. I propose the creation of a special ritual for the warrior caste which avoids the practice of utter slaughter after every battle. The priestess will mix the blood of a few handpicked captive warriors with the finest butol and serve it to the warriors in a special rite. The refined Drocrom from the sacred drink mixed with the primal Drocrom in the blood of warriors.

What do you guys think?

>>5741698
I agree that we need to move past wholesale slaughter and vampirism, but we need to do it in a way that the Vuvovic will agree with. I think the whole religious syncretism thing is on the right track, but I'm afraid there are a couple of flaws in your proposal.

One, the Vuvovic believe that ALL men have some Drocrom of Gladravil inside them, not just the leaders and the best warriors, this is unfortunately unique and outside of the cycle of consumption.

Second, Drocrom in Protavic culture primarily comes from the cycle of decay into fertilization of the earth to the growing of food from the Earth, not from any specific act.

As was stated in the first thread, we Protavic carry the corpses of slain enemies back to our lands and bury them there, so we may steal their Drocrom. we don't need a ritual, our ritual is the cycle of nature.

Now what can I contribute to this brainstorm...I suppose we could prepare the Vuvovic instead of the captives. If we dose the Vuvovic with Butol in a holy ritual that "marks" them as the victors, then we may be able to convince them that any blood they drain from their vanquished foes will drain all the Gladravil's essence. The catch here is that the essence is only a small part of the blood, and the Vuvovic need only drink a half-pint or so to get it.

So it's sort of like a reverse of what you suggested. The Vuvovic warrior would enter a ceremony done by a Protavic priestess, representing Gladroban, their great mother, and An, our great mother. The priestess would symbolically invite them back into paradise and give them sacred Butol. Then the Vuvovic would slit the wrist of a captive and drink for a few seconds, empowered by the ritual to take the captive's essence of Gladravil. Then before the captive died, the wound would be treated and they would be ransomed or enslaved or what have you.

Any thoughts on this approach?

>>5741299
>Pursue the survivors.
After such a heavy defeat for the sealskins, perhaps their former 'allies' could be convinced that their friendship with the Toprocravic is no longer worth it... and that the lands south of the river are free to either liberate or claim.

>>5741857
I always thought about the process of honey harvest and butol making as a form of "refining" Drocrom, and hell, maybe the civilization will start thinking about it that way.

But I do agree with the ritual, as long as the Vuvovic are slowly phased out and turned into a true part of the Protavics.

>>5741299
>pursue the survivors

>>5741698
>>5741857

you raise an interesting point - we are at a good point with our cohesion so we might attempt something to fully integrate our Vuvovic people, especially the mixed 36%.

I feel as though the whole blood-drinking has lost it's shock value through the generations, as evidenced by the wishes of the Protavic reserves to partake in the ritual. I don't have a clear opinion on this debate, but would suggest that the blood-drinking stay, even if it is at a smaller scale.

>>5741698
>>5741857
>We carry the corpses of slain enemies back to our lands and bury them there, so our land may flourish with their Drocrom.
>We reform the warrior caste into a military force which consumes special juice, made from the fruits grown on the fields of slain enemies and warrios.
Would be my take, but I think the blood drinking is here to stay.
Too much of our population adheres to that tradition or views it in a positive light, we can't get rid of the tradition without a tribe split/schism. So we should definitely to do it since it will be a fun addition to the quest and our tribe's history.

>>5741698
>>5741857
Just let them drink blood
I'm not sure you realize how big an advantage our blood-drinking warrior caste gives us.
Protavics are merchant pansies Vuvovic needs to remain bloodthirsty killers. We are in symbiosis and it works.

OP?????!?!?!?!?!

>>5743174
Relax, OP will get to it

>>5743193
I'm not sure bros

>>5744057
I wouldn’t worry until four days have gone by. Updates take a lot longer than most people think. Even doing a single post’s worth can take upwards of an hour. Some people don’t have that in a super busy day or are just tired and want to do something else.

The leaders of the tribe agree that they should pursue the survivors along the Choslitol. Hundreds of sealskin warriors survived the battle and it would be foolish to give them the opportunity to regroup and strike back. As soon as the Vuvovic rite is over, the beast-bringers shall follow the tracks of the fleeing Toprocravic.

Unfortunately, the ritual of the blood-drinker does not end so swiftly. There are almost two hundred captive warriors – nearly twice the number of the Vuvovic – whose blood must be shed. This is the sort of carnage that our tribe's warrior caste has always longed for, the sort of revelry that they have been told stories about ever since the subjugation of the Bruslavic and the Glachovic. Each of them quaffs an obscene amount of sticky brown vitae, to the point where many end up vomiting it back up again. Many of the wounded are even butchered for the sake of it, with their blood never touching anyone's lips.

While this lifts the spirits of the Vuvovic, many of our tribe are perturbed by the slaughter, even those who were raised according to blood-drinking traditions. Then there are the Toprocravic who did not fight, their women and children and elderly, who wail and weep and are left utterly traumatised. They just witnessed the mass-murder of their fathers, sons and brothers – there is no doubt that this trauma will haunt the sealskins for generations to come.

>The civilisation gets -5 Cohesion and Happiness.

After several hours of this butchery, our tribe is able to depart in pursuit of the runaway Toprocravic. A token force is left behind to maintain control over the captured heartland of the sealskins, while the rest of our tribe's fighters give chase. Additionally, a few tribesmen are told to commandeer some of the canoes and go to the Drocravic, to see if they are aligned with the Toprocravic in the war.

Unfortunately, the fleeing warriors have gotten a head start and they are not so easily found. When night falls, the beast-bringers and blood-drinkers stop to rest and resume their tracking when the morning comes – the panicked footfalls left by the sealskins are easy to follow. Nevertheless, this chase takes a handful of days as our tribe follows the trail along the Choslitol, across a distance that is almost as long as the Croglatol is wide.

Throughout this journey, our tribe's warriors stumble across several Toprocravic settlements, each of which only harbours a couple of dozen sealskins. It seems as though they haven't established a major presence along the Choslitol – not yet, at least. Some of the runaway fighters were foolish enough to seek refuge in these villages, while the majority kept on running. Whenever they are found, these sealskin warriors are dragged out and ritually slaughtered by the Vuvovic, while the stocks of these villages are plundered for supplies to sustain our tribe.

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After four days of tracking and pillaging, the warriors of our tribe do not just find the Toprocravic – they stumble across another tribe, a new civilisation that calls this river home. Two hundred of the runaway sealskins guard their border, along with a hundred of the river tribe's own fighters, who decorate their skin with red dye. Rather than immediately attack the Protavic once they have spotted their approach, the people of this tribe choose to send an envoy who speaks the tongue of the Croglatol, albeit with a strong accent.

These painted men call themselves the Goriwik and have been friends of the Toprocravic for quite some time. The sealskin warriors are under their protection, and they shall not allow our tribe to bring them harm. Their request is simple – our tribe will turn back and leave them in peace, along with the sealskins that they harbour. There is no need for any further violence, in their eyes.

Our tribe could assault the painted men. With over three hundred beast-bringers and a spearhead of almost a hundred blood-drinkers, our tribe could surely overwhelm theirs in battle.

Our tribe could threaten the Goriwik. Surely they realise that they are doomed if our tribes come to blows. Push them until they surrender the sealskins, even if it harms future relations between our clans.

Our tribe could offer gifts for the sealskins. Once the Toprocravic have been subdued, the wealth of our tribe shall increase dramatically. Some of this wealth can be offered to the Goriwik as tribute.

Our tribe could honour the request. There's no need for any conflict with yet another tribe. At least two hundred sealskins will be left on the loose, but that's the price that has to be paid for peace and friendship.

>Assault the painted men.
>Threaten the Goriwik.
>Offer gifts for the sealskins.
>Honour the request.

>>5744649
>>Threaten the Goriwik.
Tell them that their friends killed our envoy, and tried to raid us. They are harbouring dishonourable men, and will hand them over or suffer the consequences.

>>5744648
>This is the sort of carnage that our tribe's warrior caste has always longed for, the sort of revelry that they have been told stories about ever since the subjugation of the Bruslavic and the Glachovic.
>Each of them quaffs an obscene amount of sticky brown vitae, to the point where many end up vomiting it back up again.
Literally brought tears to my eyes
This is the kind of scene that you want to see... I can picture the happiness in the eyes of our Vuvovic bloodlusting warriors. May the Allmother bless them.

>>5744727
Support

>>5744649
>Honour the request.

We are fighting a defensive war, and as such a we will honor their request. We are interested in trade, and as >>5744727 says the Toprocravic attacked us first and murdered our envoy.

However, make it clear to the Goriwik that they will be held responsible for their new refugees actions, and if the sealskins counterattack or raid us in any way, they will be treated as an enemy for allowing this.

>>5744816
Supporting this.

>>5744727
Support

>>5744816
+1

>>5744816
Support

>>5744816
+1

>>5744816
+1

>>5744816
>+1

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>The civilisation gets -0.05 Militarism.

The leaders of the Protavic warriors discuss these demands amongst themselves before they send Ditran of the Scapac, head of her family, to speak on their behalf. She tells the Goriwik envoy that our tribe shall honour their request – the beast-bringers shall withdraw and leave the painted men in peace, along with the sealskins that they harbour. However, she goes on to explain that the part that the Toprocravic played, how they initiated this conflict by killing a messenger and that if the Goriwik allow their sealskin guests to launch a counterattack from their territory, they shall be treated as enemies as well.

This news perturbed the painted man who speaks for his tribe, who promises to share Ditran's words with those who lead his tribe. It is difficult to say what the consequences will be, but at least for the time being, conflict has been averted. The Vuvovic are displeased, as they were eager for more bloodshed and another opportunity for their gory revelry, but they are convinced to turn around and begin the journey back up the river to the land that the Protavic have seized, along with the rest of our tribe's fighters.

After a couple of days of walking along the river's length, the war host is intercepted by a runner from our very own tribe, who says that the situation has changed – not only has the messenger who was sent to the Drocravic returned, but the Toprocravic have sent a messenger of their own. Both tribes are suddenly desperate to bring about an end to this war, thanks to the actions of the Rodac.

While our tribe's fighters claimed the territory north of the Choslitol and pursued the sealskins down its length, the Drocravic and Bodravic both sent warriors of their own to defend the territory of the Toprocravic on their side of the river. This was when the stone men struck – they have not only seized the land of the wood-burners, but the territory of the light-bringers as well. The southern side of the Croglatol has been almost completely dominated by the Rodac tribe.

Our warriors hasten their return. When they arrive at the territory that they have taken from the sealskins, the messenger who speaks for the Toprocravic almost begs for peace. The sealskins will not act against the interests of the beast-bringers again, nor will they ask for the return of their territory. As most of the sealskin warriors were slain in the battle on the northern bank of the Choslitol, the Toprocravic are now outnumbered by the fire-worshippers that they invited into their own territory, who they fear will turn on them if they don't get the opportunity to reclaim their own land.

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By agreeing to peace with the Toprocravic, our tribe will allow the warriors of the Drocravic and Bodravic to reclaim the territory that was taken from them by the Rodac – or at least try to. This will hopefully weaken the stone men and prevent them from becoming the dominant tribe of the Croglatol in the future. As for the weakened Toprocravic, they will pose no threat to the Protavic and they will never oppose them again in the future – or so they claim. But would it would be worth it?

Our tribe could bring an end to the war. The Protavic have gotten everything that they wanted out of this war, it is time to bring it to an end. This might also give the fire-worshippers the opportunity to retake some of their lost land from the Rodac.

Our tribe could wait and see what happens. Maybe the fire-worshipping tribes will turn the Toprocravic and annihilate the sealskins. Maybe they'll strike back against the stone men and leave the sealskins vulnerable to an assault. Maybe our tribe won't like what happens.

Our tribe could cross the Choslitol and attack. The Protavic do not know how strong the combined forces of these three tribes are, but if they attack now, they could kill three birds with a single stone. It might be risky, but it might be worth it too.

Our tribe could try to get the Rodac involved. If the stone men have enough warriors to sweep across two tribes and conquer them with such ease, they might be able to help the beast-bringers put down the sealskins and fire-worshippers – but at what cost?

>Bring an end to the war.
>Wait and see what happens.
>Cross the Choslitol and attack.
>Try to get the Rodac involved.

>>5746409
>Bring an end to the war.
We should recover from this fight while the other tribes duke it out.

>>5746409
>Bring an end to the war.
We've got what we came here for.

But we also want to:
>Open discussions with the Rodac on military co-ordination
They're our allies, and we don't want them left out to dry in the face of any counter-offensive that would risk their homeland territories. Together, we could pressure the Toprocravic and allies into a peace - Perhaps moving the Wood-burners to take over current Toprocravic lands south of the Croglatol, restoring the light-bringers, and leaving the Rodac in control of the former Wood-burner lands.

>>5746409
>Bring an end to the war

The southern bank would be nice but we both gained access to the Choslitol which we will be able to dominate since the sealskins are so weakened, and made a decent enough impression on one of the tribes living downriver.

We knew the Rodac might do something like this. Stay out of it and let it play out.

I know a lot of anons feel like the Rodac are our Allie’s, and they are, but I urge you to remember that at the end of the day nobody is ever a permanent ally unless they are part of the tribe. We are going to have to take measures to weaken them in some way in the near future.

>>5746499
I’d argue against doing anything that allows the Rodac to gain any more territory than they had at the start of this war.

>>5746409
>>Bring an end to the war.

>>5746409
>Bring an end to the war

We need to diversify our source of copper ASAP to remove the trade imbalance between us and the Rodac

>>5746409
>Bring an end to the war.

>>5746409
>Bring an end to the war.

No need to get greedy.

The wise men and women who lead the beast-bringers decide to bring an end to the war. The Toprocravic may keep the southern bank of the Choslitol, while the Protavic shall own the northern bank of the great river. After their failed raid and their humiliation in their former heartland, the sealskins have realised that they stand no chance against our tribe. They have no choice but to kowtow before the beast-bringers, if they wish to avoid further bloodshed.

This peace will also allow the fire-worshipping tribes to fight back against the aggression of the Rodac and potentially regain some of their lost territory. The stone men might suffer because of this decision, but perhaps that it is for the best – it will keep them from becoming the dominant power in the region. There is a chance that they will ask our tribe to help defend their recently conquered lands but if they wished for the assistance of the Protavic people, they would have informed them in the first place.

Right now, the beast-bringers need to decide the fate of the sealskins who inhabit the territory that our tribe now owns – the women, children and elderly who were traumatised by the carnage wrought by the Vuvovic. There are over six hundred of them, anxiously waiting for their fates to be decided.

The captive sealskins could be accepted. They will keep their customs of bone-carving, seal-clubbing, tale-singing and flower-smoking, which will slowly spread to the rest of our tribe.

The captive sealskins could be segregated. While they will be able to maintain their traditions, they will be isolated from the rest of the tribe, to ensure that their ways do not spread beyond their community.

The sealskins could be assimilated. Over time, they will abandon their old ways and come to see themselves as Protavic. It will take several generations, but their savage practices will be forgotten.

The captive sealskins could be enslaved. This would cause our tribe's slave population to increase almost eightfold. This would be a boon to Protavic industry, if they are able to maintain control of them.

The captive sealskins could be cast out. They will forced to flee from the land that they once called home, so that it may be settled by beast-bringers instead. Less mouths to feed and more room for expansion.

Additionally, our tribe shall need to decide the future of the Toprocravic tribe as a whole. Considering how desperate they are for peace, the sealskins will likely agree to almost any terms that they are offered. However, if these terms are particularly oppressive, they may come to resent the Protavic tribe once they recover their strength.

The Toprocravic tribe could be granted peace without terms. Now that they have been subdued, there is no need for our tribe to punish them further. Trade with them can resume and in time, hopefully they will consider the Protavic friends again.

The Topcravic tribe could be kept under embargo. In order to prevent the sealskins from becoming an influential tribe in the future, they will be prohibited from trading with any other clan. Should they break this embargo, they will be punished.

The Toprocravic tribe could be made an autonomous part of the Protavic tribe. From now on, the sealskins will answer to the beast-bringers. In exchange, they will be allowed to retain some autonomy and their identity as a segregated community.

The Toprocravic tribe could be assimilated into the Protavic tribe. This will likely be a very slow process that will take many generations and until it is complete, the sealskins will undoubtedly resent the rest of the tribe and cause complications.

>Accept the captive sealskins.
>Segregate the captive sealskins.
>Assimilate the captive sealskins.
>Enslave the captive sealskins.
>Cast out the captive sealskins.

>Grant the Toprocravic tribe peace without terms.
>Keep the Toprocravic tribe under embargo.
>Make the Toprocravic tribe an autonomous part of the Protavic tribe.
>Assimilate the Toprocravic tribe into the Protavic tribe.

>>5747586
>Assimilate the captive sealskins
With one caveat. We Protavic have always been envious of the Sealskin’s canoe-building and way on the water. Let that tradition be upheld, and let the rest fall by the wayside.
>Keep the Toprocravic tribe under embargo.

The southern bank of shall only trade with the Proravic so that our tribe has the time to replace them as merchants in the eyes of the tribes down the Choslitol. However, make it only last for a period five generations, then the Toprocravic are free to trade as they will. This is a punishment, but not a death sentence.

>>5747586
>Accept the captive sealskins.
>Make the Toprocravic tribe an autonomous part of the Protavic tribe.

>>5747586
>Accept the captive sealskins.

>Keep the Toprocravic tribe under embargo.

>>5747586
>Assimilate the captive sealskins

>Keep the Toprocravic tribe under embargo.

They shall only trade with the Protavic

>>5747584
>Assimilate the captive sealskins.
>Assimilate the Toprocravic tribe into the Protavic tribe.

>>5747586
>Accept the captive sealskins.
Bros, our equality is super low, and I'm pretty sure that assimilation is known to lower it.

>Keep the Toprocravic tribe under embargo.

>>5748142
Yes, you're right, but it's a tradition at this point. Even though I argued against it I think that from an rp perspective the Vuvovic would hate to accept a tribe they've defeated in battle as equals, and the Protavic would hate to accept a tribe we've defeated in Blocrum(i.e strategy) as equals.

Like I said, I argued against assimilation but when it comes down to it we are kind of Protavic supremacists with the sole exception of the Vuvovic.


Though I really do think we should come up with some way to reform the Vuvovic blood frenzy sooner rather than later.

>>5747586
>Assimilate the captive sealskins.
>Grant the Toprocravic tribe peace without terms.

>>5748353
i'm not sure what will happen when we have the Toprocravic nation across the river and we're holding a lot of their people with us

Won't the Toprocravics we have rebel at one point? Try to rejoin their original tribe?

>>5748513
We’ll move them to other parts of our territory, away from the river.

>>5747586
>Accept the captive sealskins
>Make the Toprocravic tribe an autonomous part of the Protavic tribe.

>>5748448
Changing my second vote to:
>Make the Toprocravic tribe an autonomous part of the Protavic tribe.

>>5747586
>Cast out the captive sealskins.
>Make the Toprocravic tribe an autonomous part of the Protavic tribe.

I think we should ban the Toprocravic from trading and owning livestock turning them into a caste of porters and fishermen.

Making an autonomous tribe works with the Vuvovic because they occupy an honored and respected position. The Toprocravic on the other hand will hate their new positions and be a constant source of tension in Protavic society,.

You are basically creating Neolithic Jews, is that really what you want?

By my count, there is currently a tie between "accepting the captive sealskins" and "assimilating the captive sealskins," and a tie between "keep the Toprocravic tribe under embargo" and "make the Toprocravic tribe an autonomous part of the Protavic tribe."

I'll check back in tomorrow, in roughly twelve hours, to see the ties have been broken. If not, I'll resort to a roll-off.

>>5749663
Plenty of societies have had caste systems without being "jews"

>>5749752
The ones that are successful have cultural artifacts reinforcing the separation. Jews are a great example of an under-caste in almost constant poverty that was a continual source of trouble in many different ways for the authorities in charge.

In this case due to the nature of the Grascan and its hostility most of the lucrative and efficient trade and travel will be conducted primarily along the waterways. Giving a major portion of that responsibility over to a depressed people forced into it via conquest does not seem like the wisest decision to me.

Not to mention that leaving them unassimilated or unaccepted will leave a very real bulkhead in Protavic society and land for aggressive manipulation by the free Toprocravic on the southern bank of the Choslitol, or their descendants that the Goriwik took in.

>>5747586
>Assimilate the captive sealskins

>Make the Toprocravic tribe an autonomous part of the Protavic tribe.

>>5747586
>Assimilate the captive sealskins.
>Make the Toprocravic tribe an autonomous part of the Protavic tribe.

Locking the vote.

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>The civilisation gets +1552 Population.
>The civilisation gets +0.05 Technology and Culture.
>The civilisation gets +10 Prosperity.
>The civilisation gets +5 Education and Productivity.
>The civilisation gets -25 Cohesion.
>The civilisation gets -20 Happiness.
>The civilisation gets -5 Health and Equality.

The conquered sealskins who dwell on the northern bank of the Choslitol shall become beast-bringers over the course of generations, while the Toprocravic tribe that dwells on the southern bank shall answer to the Protavic henceforth. They shall be allowed to keep their traditions and govern themselves as they please on a day-to-day basis, but they shall ultimately answer to our clan.

Not long after the agreement is made, complications start to reveal themselves. Though the smoke people were conquered long ago, they still remain a significant minority among the Toprocravic. The act of inhaling the fumes produced by burning flowers is an important part of the Procruvic cultural identity, though they unknowingly wreak havoc on their lungs with this bizarre tradition. Many of the sealskins have adopted this habit and suffer the same symptoms.

As for the Toprocravic themselves, they have little choice but to share their connections with the myriad clans of the Choslitol with the Protavic, along with their spoils. From now on, the beast-bringers shall be now able to exploit the bounty of the great river and its peoples. In addition, the sealskins seem to continue the tradition of scholastic singing first devised by their Bruslavic friends in the distant past, as well as the old Toprocravic practice of artistic bone-carving. Combined, these customs grant this tribe means of recording information that may be more sophisticated than those of the Protavic.

However, for better or worse, the beast-bringers will not adopt any of these practices. They have no desire to learn the savage methods of inferior tribes that were unable to resist their supremacy. Instead, the Protavic people are more interested in the subjugation of the northern bank and its traumatised inhabitants, who witnessed the slaughter of their brothers, fathers and sons not so long ago. Right now, these people may be terrified – but in the future, this terror will be replaced by hatred, by a powerful resentment that will undoubtedly hinder the assimilation of this territory.

While our tribe comes to terms with this situation, the fire-worshippers fight a bitter war with the stone men over the territory that was taken from them. While the Rodac remain the closest friends of the Protavic people, they make no effort to ask for aid from our clan – perhaps they consider it unnecessary, or maybe they do not believe that the beast-bringers have the manpower to spare. Whatever the reason, they fight their war on their own.

All that remains is to honour the heroes of this conflict – but which one will our tribe venerate more than any other?

They could honour Glochil of the Chupac. He is the young man whose vigilance was responsible for thwarting the Toprocravic raid and who has earned a place among the Vuvovic for his deeds.

They could honour Tradil Val. He is the war-leader of the blood-drinkers responsible for leading the devastating charge that routed the sealskins and led to the conquest of the Choslitol's northern bank.

They could honour Ditran of the Scapac. She is the leader of her family and the negotiator responsible for convincing the Goriwik tribe to prevent their sealskin guests from launching a retaliatory assault.

They could honour Sigul of the Puparac. Though he did not serve our tribe during the conflict, he is the most prominent leader of the Toprocravic on the southern bank. It would be wise to treat him with respect.

They could honour the Protavic people. Every single member of the tribe contributed to the victory of the beast-bringers, even those who did not lift a weapon. The tribe should honour itself first and foremost.

>Glochil of the Chupac.
>Tradil Val.
>Ditran of the Scapac.
>Sigul of the Puparac.
>The Protavic people.

>>5750256
>Ditran of the Scapac.

>>5750256
>Glochil of the Chupac.

>>5750256
>Ditran of the Scapac.

>>5750256
>>Glochil of the Chupac.

>>5750256
>Glochil of the Chupac.

>>5750255
>Glochil of the Chupac.

He represents how ordinary people can become great through their deeds

>>5750256
>>Glochil of the Chupac.
Equality boost?

>>5750256
>>Glochil of the Chupac.

>>5750256
>Glochil of the Chupac

To improve our equality, I would suggest this (when applicable):

The enterprising traders who get rich from buying and selling has to pay for great feasts every now and then
Outright taxing them would deter them from trading, but having them "invest" in our populace might go better

>>5750256
>Glochil of the Chupac.

His vigilance saved many from death. All protavic should aspire to become more like him

OP :(

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>The civilisation gets +0.02 Militarism.
>The civilisation gets +5 Equality.

Above all others, Glochil of the Chupac is celebrated for his deeds. Thanks to this young man's vigilance and the strength he exhibited when faced with overwhelmed odds, the Protavic people were able to fight of the sealskin raiders. As a reward for his great deeds, he shall be the first among the beast-bringers to be adopted into the ranks of the Vuvovic and in time, he shall found his own bloodline of warriors. He serves as living proof that through strength and cunning, anyone can become a legend.

On the southern shore of the Croglatol, the fire-worshippers wage war against the stone men. A month of bitter, bloody conflict ensues and the light-bringers are able to regain the territory that they lost. However, they fail to reclaim the land of the wood-burners, which remains in the clutches of the Rodac.

After everything that has transpired, the Drocravic have become belligerent and refuse to deal with anyone who works with the stone men – this includes our tribe and their sealskin puppets. As for the Rodac, they remain strong allies of the Protavic people. In fact, our clan benefits from their seizure of the Bodravic lands, which grants them far greater access to the flammable substance known as topran than before.

>The civilisation gets +5 Prosperity and +5 Productivity.

Ending a Special Situation: The Toprocravic Troubles.

A generation passes.

Only a few years after the subjugation of the Toprocravic, our tribe's traders bring back tools of incredible craftsmanship from the Rodac. The stone men are known for their affinity with metal, but they never produced such fine knives and chisels until now. They almost look as though they grew into these shapes, rather than being beaten into them.

Dialogue between the stone men and our tribe leads to the exchange of knowledge and the secrets of smelting are discovered. Pottery kilns are repurposed for the forging of copper tools and before too long, the Protavic people are no longer reliant on rare instances of native copper, but can now make use of far more abundant copper ore. For the beast-bringers, the Chalcolithic has begun.

But while copper shall become ubiquitous in time, at this moment, our tribe uses it for one purpose more than any other.

Our tribe could focus on war. The Vuvovic shall be armed with the finest knives and spears, while their heads shall be protected by helmets. Even their arrows will be tipped with copper.

Our tribe could focus on industry. The development of axes and saws shall allow the Protavic to bring down the great trees of the Grascan and lead to significant advances in the field of woodworking.

Our tribe could focus on trading. Copper tokens shall serve as an early form of currency that will rapidly spread across the Croglatol and beyond, greatly increasing our tribe's control over commerce.

>War.
>Industry.
>Trading.

>>5754535
>Trading.

>>5754535
>Industry
I think we need to diversify a bit here. Coinage is all very well and good, but beginning the development of basic utility tools and the ability to clear trees (in the middle of a densely forested region, I might add) will be revolutionary closer to home and unlock more crucial advances later.

>>5754535
>Our tribe could focus on industry. The development of axes and saws shall allow the Protavic to bring down the great trees of the Grascan and lead to significant advances in the field of woodworking.
Maybe we can clear a path all the way north of here to open up a trade route to those other tribes north of here.

>>5754535
>Industry
Clearing land to make grazing grounds, while also pushing dangerous animals further away. This seems the most pressing
Wood can be made into houses and palisades, or traded to the Rodac.

>>5754535
>Industry.

>>5754535
>Industry

We are already thr premeniant local military and trading power - industry is the area in which we lack.

>>5754535
>>Trading.
I understand this doesn't have a huge and immediate impact like Industry or Warfare but there are innumerable cases of a civilization projecting a power in a thousand different ways because of a strong currency and the leverage thereof.

Besides, we just finished gaining more or less complete control over a river, and with it the main trade artery for our and every other tribe we know except the Scagravic. The two together would lock in our dominance of commerce and trade for more or less the whole foreseeable future.

Consider it.

>>5754535
>>Industry.

>>5754535
>Industry

>>5754973
Supporting this.

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>The civilisation gets +0.3% Population Growth.
>The civilisation gets +0.05 Technology.
>The civilisation gets +5 Productivity and Security.

This new abundance of copper is used to create larger and efficient tools, not only for the extraction of more metal but for the felling of trees. The amount of lumber at our tribe's disposal increases massively. Whole logs are used for the creation of walls for frontier settlements and dugout canoes for traversing the water, but some clever tribesmen start cutting cross-sectional pieces out of timber instead. They notice that the round sections rotate with ease, while the sections that are cut into cuboids fit together nicely, no matter which tree they were cut from.

This influx of lumber has led to the invention of the solid wheel and the plank, though it will take some time for our tribe to utilise the full potential of these concepts.

More immediately, the clearing of woodland allows for the expansion of our tribe. The slow retreat of the Grascan creates more pastureland with every year that passes, along with more safety from the beasts that inhabited the woods that once stood there. New families are born as the latest generation of beast-bringers flocks to this unclaimed territory, though across the river to the east, the Scagravic frown at all of this. While our tribe's copper tools are incapable of felling the titanic blackwood trees that they consider sacred, the tree-dwellers are still worried by the Protavic proclivity for deforestation. Trade with that clan was already infrequent, but now it becomes non-existent as they withdraw from any contact with our tribe.

A generation passes.

A handful of envoys come from the Toprocravic territory across the Choslitol, to meet with the leaders of the Protavic people. However, these petitioners are not sealskins. No, they represent the last remnants of the smoke people who stubbornly cling to their culture and refuse to mingle with their conquerors. These Procruvic emissaries cover their skin with layers of ash instead of sealskin coats and they view their practice of inhaling flower fumes as a way of communing with the spirits of the world, while the Toprocravic treat it as a mere past-time.

As one of the fire-worshipping tribes that inhabited the southern shores of the Croglatol, they once had a strong bond with the light-bringers and wood-burners. If the Protavic are able to appease them, the Procruvic may be able to forge a stronger bond with the Drocravic on the behalf of our tribe and bring an end to the hostility that they feel towards our clan.

Though barely a hundred of them are left, these “true” smoke people wish for the sealskins to be cast out of their ancestral land on the shores of the Croglatol, and limited to the southern bank of the Choslitol river. Like the Toprocravic, the Procruvic will still serve the Protavic as a lesser tribe, but they will be free from the influence of their seal-clubbing neighbours.

Our tribe could grant their wish. The recently conquered sealskins, some of whom were alive during the conquest of their tribe, will be furious about the loss of their territory. However, the beast-bringers will earn the undying gratitude of the smoke people.

Our tribe could give them new territory. With the retreat of the Grascan, there is plenty of new land for the smoke people to inhabit. This is not what they asked for, but at least they will be able to preserve their cultural identity as the true smoke people.

Our tribe could accept them into the Protavic. The leaders of the beast-bringers see value in the ways of the smoke people and would like to adopt them as their own – not as conquerors but as equals, if the Procruvic would allow it.

Our tribe could deny their request. These traditionalists bring nothing to the table except for superstition. What would the Protavic have to gain from protecting their practices? Let the sealskins absorb them, it will only take a few more generations.

>Grant their wish.
>Give them new territory.
>Accept them into the Protavic.
>Deny their request.

>>5755148
>Grant their wish, but grant new territory to the sealskins as compensation for their loss.

>>5755148
>Deny their request.

Their beliefs are heretical - we shall not sully our tribe nor help them

>>5755148
>Give them new territory.

It can be very useful for us to have them around. We don’t mind them influencing us or give versus, it shows comparability with the fire worshipping tribes, and there are only 100 of them, easy to make an enclave out of.

>>5754535
>Industry.

>>5755148
>>Deny their request.

>>5755148
>Grant the Protavic control over all Toprocravic territory
If these people are willing to cooperate under our tribe, then I would suggest they get to control the entire Toprocravic territory in our stead.
The Protavic still hold their culture, which is admirable. They have good relations to the other subjugated tribes, which helps us a lot
This would make them an incredibly loyal ally.

>>5755148
>Give them new territory; in the Grascan south of the Croglatol.

The Seal-Skins need to be next to a large body of water in a way that the smoke people just don't. So best the sealskins stay on the waterside and the smoke people get new land.

>>5755704
+1

>>5755148
>Give them new territory.

>>5755148
>Give them new territory.

>>5755148


>>5755621
seconding anon here

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>The civilisation gets +5 Equality.
>The civilisation gets -5 Prosperity.

The Procruvic people shall be given new land, provided that they are able to claim it. They shall be given axes and set to work felling the trees to the south of the Toprocravic territory that they once inhabited, and any land that they clear shall be theirs to claim. Not only will this grant the smoke people the independence from the sealskins that they seek, but it will limit the Toprocravic clan to expand inland and accumulate enough power to question our tribe's rule.

The leaders of the sealskins are perturbed by this decision, yet they do not dare to question it. They have no desire to earn the ire of their overlords just yet. As for the smoke people, the first few years of freedom are difficult for them – they are not used to the hard frontier life of cutting down trees, fending off beasts and establishing new territory. They struggle to even subsist and it will take some time before they are self-sufficient, but at least they managed to escape the dilution of their culture.

A generation passes.

The smoke people are not the only ones who are worried about their culture being eroded. The “true” Protavic people are starting to grow concerned, for the beast-bringers who have adopted blood-drinker traditions have begun to outnumber them. Not only that, but this Protavic-Vuvovic group has developed its own identity, distinct from either of its parents.

They call themselves the Anamilivic, the children of An and Il. The Protavic people are familiar with An, the Allmother who embodies the world itself, the source of all life and the precious Drocrom that flows within all living beings. As for Il, that is their name for Gladravil, the Great Father of the Vuvovic faith. He is the son and lover of An according to the children, the first human whose seed is the source of all others.

While An represents life, femininity and wisdom, Il represents death, masculinity and strength. The mythology surrounding the Great Father is almost identical to the tales that the Vuvovic tell – he was eventually slain by his children who feared and envied his strength, who drank his blood so that they might steal it. Disappointed by humanity, An entered a deep slumber and left her children to fend for themselves on the world that is her body. Through the accumulation of Drocrom, the Anamilivic hope to awaken her and earn her forgiveness, so that the world may become paradise once more.

Unlike the Vuvovic, the children are conservative regarding the tradition of blood-drinking. When a man dies, his family only takes a ceremonial sip from his body before they bury him – draining him of all of his Drocrom would be sacrilegious. No, the majority of his essence must be allowed to return to the land and feed the sacred cycle of consumption.

The scarification that the Anamilivic practice is also limited and surrounded by ceremony. Whenever two lovers wish to begin a family together, they are both scarred by a Drobran, a priestess of An, and anointed with each other's blood. Similarly, whenever they have children, the mother and father are both scarred and their child is baptised with their sticky brown blood.

However, the children still practise some of the traditions of the Protavic. They still favour a pastoralist lifestyle and the herding and exchanging of beasts is immensely important to their culture, as is the keeping of bees. One of their favourite dishes during feasts is provul, a baked mixture of pig's blood and grains that is served with berries and honey.

Yet there are some practices which are less important to the Anamilivic. They treat riddles, rebuses and even Blocrum as simple games to be enjoyed as a past-time, whereas the Protavic view them as important exercises that are vital to honing one's intellect. Subsequently, they no longer value cunning and ingenuity as highly as the beast-bringers – religiosity and “wisdom” are more important to the children.

The Anamalivic are also less xenophobic than the Protavic people. While they still view themselves as somewhat superior to the other tribes, they find it much easier to coexist with them, whereas the beast-bringers often find it difficult to view their neighbours as anything other than pawns to be manipulated, to be drained of their resources for the benefit of our tribe. Even when they venture out to trade with other clans, the Protavic internally sneer at the barbaric ways of other peoples.

It is this sense of supremacy that causes the most traditional beast-bringers to express concerns about the rise of the children. Though it will take several generations, the Anamilivic will eventually replace the Protavic entirely. The leaders of our tribe – many of whom consider themselves Anamilivic – are asked to devise a solution to this problem.

Our tribe could take no action. Allow nature to take its course and the Protavic to slowly be replaced by the Anamilivic.

Our tribe could assimilate the Protavic. This will hasten the replacement of the beast-bringers with the children, at a cost.

Our tribe could send out the Protavic. Those who object to the rise of the Anamilivic will be sent out in an expedition to start a colony elsewhere.

Our tribe could keep them apart. Segregation will ensure the preservation of the true Protavic way of life.

Our tribe could assimilate the Anamilivic. Reversing the rise of the children will be slow and painful, but it is the only way.

Our tribe could send out the Anamilivic. Those who aren't willing to embrace the Protavic way will be cast out to start a colony elsewhere in the Grascan.

>Take no action.
>Assimilate the Protavic.
>Send out the Protavic.
>Keep them apart.
>Assimilate the Anamilivic.
>Send out the Anamilivic.

>>5756370
>Teach the Anamilivic

Begin a centralised system whereby elder Protavic teach children, and most importantly explain the innate supremacy of our tribe

>>5756400
+1

The cycle of life and death is sacred, and it is against the will of An to try and circumvent it. However, the Protavic can bend all their powers to teaching the Anamilivic a few core Protavic ideas and making sure they hold them dear to their hearts. Not unlike how a dead body gives its Drocrom back to the land, let us teach the children the importance of our traditions.

>>5756370
>>5756400
I would propose a variant of this anons write in
>Let both tribes teach each other
Anamilivic is a good at bridging the gap with the Vuvovic. If they can influence each other enough, then eventually the Vuvovic might not traumatize suvrivors of coming wars.
Being less xenophile should help out with our capacity to trade and assimilate with others
But we definately need the Protavic focus of honing intelect and ingenuity.

If everyone gets to teach each other then we could get a real melting pot going

>>5756370
>Promote cultural exchange between the Protavic and Anamilivic
Roughly what >>5756531 is proposing.
Anamilivic is the way forward! Can't wait to see how we can fit other tribes their beliefs into our sacred family of An and Il.

>>5756588
+1

>>5756370
>Take no action.

>>5756588
>+1

>>5756370
>Assimilate the Anamilivic.
It's the only way.

Locking the vote there.

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>The civilisation gets +0.05 Culture.
>The civilisation gets +5 Education, Equality and Cohesion.
>The civilisation gets -5 Prosperity and Productivity.

Until recent years, the children viewed themselves as a part of the Protavic people, no matter how much their customs diverged. With the creation of this new identity, they threaten to bring about disharmony and create a rift between themselves and the traditional beast-bringers, where there was none before. The leaders of the tribe believe that this barrier must be brought down before it can grow any stronger – the Anamilivic are still Protavic, no matter what they call themselves, and both they and those opposed to them must realise this.

Those who are too elderly to perform labour are assigned a new role – they must not only tend to the education of their grandchildren, but they must go forth and teach their ways to those who do not follow them. Those who are children must educate the Protavic, and those who are beast-bringers must educate the Anamilivic. These wandering teachers are called the vibruc and they are protected by tribal law – those who hear their words must heed them and grant them hospitality, or risk punishment.

A visit from a vibrul could be considered disruptive, as his hosts are compelled to abandon their labour to provide him with food and shelter and listen to his wisdom for as long as he remains. However, this informal education system will eventually produce results – the rift between the Anamilivic and the Protavic people will close as the two groups begin to learn from one another. The children shall rediscover the importance of cunning and supremacy, while the beast-bringers shall learn the value of religiosity and acceptance.

While the replacement of the “true” Protavic people remains inevitable, hopefully the Anamilivic will be worthy successors when that time comes.

A generation passes.

The Protavic are not the only people being influenced by the Anamilivic. After several generations of allowing worthy outsiders to join their caste, roughly half of the Vuvovic warriors follow the ways of the children, rather than the traditional customs of the blood-drinkers. Their blood rites aren't nearly as excessive and they bring with them an affinity for animals that they inherited from the beast-bringers.

In fact, it is not uncommon for these Anamilivic blood-drinkers to bring along tamed beasts on their slave-catching and trading expeditions through the Grascan. While the traditional Vuvovic sneer at this practice, these animals are undeniably useful out in the wild woods. With the passage of time, our tribe's warrior caste will come to favour a particular animal above all of the others, a beast that will be associated with the Vuvovic for evermore.

The Vuvovic could favour the pig. While it isn't uncommon for the blood-drinkers to bring along swine for sustenance, it turns out that pigs are rather talented at finding edible roots and mushrooms amongst the undergrowth.

The Vuvovic could favour the fowl. These birds are reluctant flyers that serve as excellent alarms, thanks to their propensity for screaming when predators are near. They also provide eggs for sustenance and feathers for fletching.

The Vuvovic could favour the wolf. Tamed wolves are known to be loyal and clever companions that guard the ones who tamed them, though they are also adept at tracking prey through the undergrowth with their keen senses.

The Vuvovic could favour the raptor. The birds of prey that inhabit the forest can track small animals across great distances and still return to their masters. Some warriors believe that they could be used as messengers.

The Vuvovic could favour the bear. While bears have been captured by brave tribesmen before, no one has actually been able to tame a bear. Perhaps the Vuvovic might be able to subdue these beasts and teach them to serve.

The Vuvovic could favour nothing. The traditionalists are right – warriors should not become attached to mere beasts. Any animal companions will be slaughtered for their meat and the hearts of the blood-drinkers shall be hardened.

>The pig.
>The fowl.
>The wolf.
>The raptor.
>The bear.
>Nothing.

>>5757485
>>The raptor.
Fast messages through difficult terrain seems handy

>>5757485
>The Heron

Herons are freshwater lake birds that fly and hunt every type of small mammal around the lake. They have special powder down feathers for insulation in clothes and bedding, well as for personal decoration.

They have excellent feathers for fletching and “In Native American culture, this bird symbolizes renewal, rejuvenation and rebirth - an ever present reminder that we are all a part of a larger cycle of life and death.”

I know we aren’t natives or even human but it seems interesting!

>>5757561
While this isn't an animal that the Vuvovic could take with them on their expeditions, I'm willing to accept this write-in if other people want to vote for it.

>>5757485
>The wolf
The Vuvovic would probably prefer an animal that can hunt and fight prey, just like them
An animal companion to share meat and blood with, an extension of themselves.

>>5757485
>The raptor.

>>5757485
>The (giant) ground sloth
With its size and strength this animal is perfect for carrying our goods and slaves. It's sturdy enough to not be taken down easily by widlife or other tribes with ill intent. And since it's a herbivore it can feed on the vegetation of the Grascan.

If this gets no support, consider my vote a support for >>5757561
>The Heron

>>5757485
>>The bear.

>>5757485
>The wolf.

>>5757485
>The wolf.

Dogs are a core part of civilisation + they help with animal herding, so would benefit not just our military

>>5757485
>>The raptor.
Falconrychads...

>>5757485
>The wolf.

The road less taken

>>5757485
The wolf

Ok changing me >>5757561 to

>raptor

Locking the vote there.

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>The civilisation gets +5 Security and Happiness.

The taming and training of wolves as companions spreads through the Vuvovic caste. Even the more traditional blood-drinkers begin to pick up the practice. These beasts are trained for a variety of purposes – for tracking, for guarding and for combat. However, as the work of the Vuvovic means that they cannot remain in one place for long, the task of raising the offspring of these beasts falls to their Anamilivic families back by the Croglatol. The keeping of dogs becomes a common practice in our tribe's heartland, where they are trained to guard property, herd swine and provide companionship.

Ever since the Protavic people first learned how to train beasts, the wolf was one of the many animals that they trained. The domestication of this noble species had already begun but with this development, the process shall accelerate dramatically. Eventually, after enough generations, they will transform from wild wolves into domestic dogs, as precious and important to the tribe as the humble honey bee.

A generation passes.

It was bound to happen eventually – all of the pieces were going to fall into place at some point. By tying art to language and by giving meaning to symbols, a clever tribesman was able to devise a method of physically recording information – a method that he taught to his family and that soon spread to others. Before long, this written language was being used by his entire tribe – the Toprocravic tribe.

To begin with, this script was devised as a method of keeping track of the long, droning sing-song stories that they use to teach each other of the past, a remnant of the culture that Bruslavic migrants brought with them long ago. However, it didn't take long for the Toprocravic people to learn that this language could be used for far more than transcribing history. Already, it is being used to record inventories and send messages over great distances, without the message being forgotten by a fallible courier.

To begin with, Protavic visitors were baffled by the hoard of bones that the sealskins keep, all of which were covered with nonsensical runes. However, the more trustworthy traders were eventually taught how to read and write in this language by their Toprocravic hosts, a talent that they brought back with them to our tribe.

The leaders of the beast-bringers are concerned by this development – it could be taken as a sign that the Protavic are not the cleverest people of the Grascan. By recognising this practice and adopting it, our tribe would be acknowledging the intelligence of the Toprocravic people and would be allowing itself to be influenced by them. But if they do not recognise it, then the beast-bringers would be denying themselves all of the benefits that such a development could bring.

Our tribe could destroy all traces of this script. As punishment for trying to taint the Protavic people with their barbarism, any trace of this language shall be destroyed.

Our tribe could ban this script. The beast-bringers won't be allowed to use this savage practice. Leave it to the sealskins, they can do what they wish with their silly bones.

Our tribe could adopt this script. The benefits of being able to physically record information are too substantial, even if it means learning from the “wisdom” of the sealskins.

Our tribe could claim responsibility for this script. Though the beast-bringers will adopt this language, they shall tell themselves that they invented it until the true source is forgotten.

Our tribe could devise their own script. The finest minds of the tribe will study this language and try to devise one of their own, one that is uniquely Protavic and that will replace this pitiful precursor.

>Destroy all traces of this script.
>Ban this script.
>Adopt this script.
>Claim responsibility for this script.
>Devise our own script.

>>5758660
>Devise our own script.
>Adopt this script
We should acknowledge that this script exists and that we may be superiour even the superiour can forget that others also can do great things in a rare instance

>>5758660
>Adopt this script.
It will evolve and change naturally over the years, decades and centuries. Though eventually some bright reformer will come up with a superior system, OUR superior system; it makes sense to use this script at the moment. Let us not be too proud to adopt beneficial ideas... improvement upon them will come in time.

>>5758660
>Adopt this script.
>Devise our own script.

Use their words as a foundation, but make the MANY improvements which are surely needed

>>5758660
>Devise our own script.

We already have several of the pieces in place. If the Toprocravic can do something like this, we can surely do it better.

>>5758660
>>Devise our own script.

>>5758660
>Devise our own script
but base it upon the old one, while
>Claiming responsibility

Seems like something the beast-bringers would do

>>5758660
>Claim responsibility for this script.

Fuck the sealniggers this is ours now

>>5758701
>>5758790
Supporting making our own w/ inspo and using it to edge out the competition.

>>5758660
>Adopt this script.

>>5758660
>>Devise our own script.
fuck bones, we will write on pigskin

>>5758660
>Adopt this script.
Our Protavic roots give us the appreciation of intelligence, and our Anamilivic ways thought us to be accepting of others. Thus adopting this script for its practical usage and respecting the inventors seems most in line.
But the sealskins answer to us, they're essentially part of our tribe. No doubt this great invention was influenced by our tribe's high standard of intelligence.

So far, there is a three-way tie. Three votes for a combination of "Adopt this script" and "Devise our own script," three votes for exclusively "Adopt this script" and three votes for exclusively "Devise our own script."

I'll wait for one last vote to bring an end to the tie, then I'll close the vote for the next update.

>>5758660
>Adopt this script.
>Devise our own script.
Topocravese, licensed under CC-BY

Locking the vote there.

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>The civilisation gets +0.05 Technology.
>The civilisation gets +0.1 Culture.
>The civilisation gets +10 Education.
>The civilisation gets +5 Equality.
>The civilisation gets -10 Cohesion.
>The civilisation gets -5 Productivity.

The Toprocravic script of Toproslan is adopted by the Protavic people. Amongst the sealskins, it is typically written vertically down the length of a long bone, which is strung together with others for more complicated texts. Our tribe uses a different medium for writing – birch bark scrolls for less important works, while the more valuable texts are immortalised as clay tablets. Within a few years, usage of this written language has spread throughout the entire clan.

Yet while the adoption of Toproslan is underway, the finest minds of the Protavic people are hard at work, devoting their lives to the understanding of language as an idea. What does it mean to write, what should be written, what is the best way of writing something? These are the questions that the cleverest people of our tribe ask themselves and after almost a decade, they provide an answer – Protadrol, a constructed language made to outshine Toproslan.

By design, it is more elegant and efficient – each word is condensed into a beautiful and singular logogram, rather than a string of crude runes that are supposed to represent syllables. There are some unavoidable similarities between the two scripts – Protadrol shares the vertical orientation of Toproslan, for example – but our tribe's scholars tried their hardest to create a language that was distinct from the one produced by the sealskins. In the end, perhaps it was too distinct.

The drobrac and vibruc are the first ones to be taught this new language, which they are instructed to share with the rest of the tribe. Unfortunately, a great deal of the Protavic people are slow to learn Protadrol – some even refuse to learn it outright. Most of them already know Toproslan after all, which is a perfectly serviceable script for day-to-day usage. In fact, it might even be easier to learn, thanks to how each character is tied to a syllable. The logograms of Protadrol also contain phonetic elements, but they are simply too compact and complex when compared to Toproslan runes.

This leads to a peculiar divide in Protavic society. Toproslan remains the most popular script by far, commonly used for practical purposes such as taking inventories or writing messages. It is also the language that will spread to the other tribes of the Croglatol and Choslitol, that will serve as the foundation for their own written works. The less popular Protadrol is used almost exclusively by the higher echelons of the Protavic tribe, for ceremonial and scholarly purposes. Knowledge of this language becomes one of the many methods used to test a tribesman's intellect – those who are incapable of writing in Protadrol clearly have inferior minds and are unworthy of true respect.

While the adoption of Toproslan has led to easier communication and a closer bond with the Toprocravic, some of the common people feel as though they have a stronger bond with the sealskins than they do with the the more well-off members of their own tribe, who exclusively read and write in Protadrol. This language barrier also poses some practical issues, as many documents have to be copied from one language to another, or transcribed in both scripts. At least there is one undeniable boon – our tribe has a shockingly high literacy rate. Over a quarter of them, if not a third, are able to read and write at least one language.

A generation passes.

It is time for that old song and dance again. Dozens of the Toprocravic tribesmen who inhabit our territory on the northern bank of the Choslitol have gone missing over the course of the past few years, only for traders to swear that they have seen them over on the southern bank – in the land that still belongs to the sealskins.

It would seem as though the Toprocravic are trafficking their own tribesmen, so that they might avoid assimilation and instead live with their own people. Several of our tribe's leaders are outraged by this activity and believe that the sealskins should be punished for this deception, while others think that it is time to bring back the practice of emigration. There are even some who believe that it would be wise to expel all of the sealskins who still live in our territory, so that they may all dwell on the southern bank together.

Our tribe could demand the return of the sealskins. Though these people do not consider themselves Protavic yet, it is what they will become in due time. It is wrong of the Toprocravic to take them.

Our tribe could impose sanctions on the sealskins. As punishment for their actions, the Toprocravic will be barred from trading with any other tribe. There will be consequences if they dare to disobey.

Our tribe could send in the Vuvovic to teach them a lesson. The warrior caste will told to muster and attack the sealskins. Almost two-hundred screaming blood-drinkers will remind them of their place.

Our tribe could confiscate the property of those who leave. It is said that in the distant past, tribesmen were free to leave our tribe and join the sealskins, as long as they surrendered their belongings.

Our tribe could send all sealskins to Toprocravic territory. This will bolster the population and the influence of their tribe, but perhaps they will be grateful for the end of the assimilation of their people.

>Demand the return of the sealskins.
>Impose sanctions on the sealskins.
>Send in the Vuvovic to teach them a lesson.
>Confiscate the property of those who leave.
>Send all sealskins to Toprocravic territory.

>>5759310
>Send in the Vuvovic to teach them a lesson

>>5759310
>send in the Vuvovic to teach them a lesson

>>5759310
>Confiscate the property of those who leave.
>Compensate the (southern) Topocravic who snitch on the traffickers and/or refuse them land to settle
The migrants bring no worth with them, and will only be extra mouths to feed. Those who align with us will have plenty of wealth & resources, and will hopefully accumulate power through that.

>>5759433
+1

>>5759433
+1

>>5759310
>>Confiscate the property of those who leave.

>>5759310
>Confiscate the property of those who leave.

>>5759433
+1 to this

>>5759433
Support

>>5759433
Supporting

Funding a fifth column in southern Topocravic society is a great idea

We may even want to permanently station a small detachment of administrators and soldiers down there to ‘help oversee the relationship’

>>5759433
>+1

>>5759433
Supporting
>>5759743
I like this too

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>The civilisation gets +5 Security.
>The civilisation gets -5 Equality and Cohesion.

The leaders of the tribe decide to revive the old tradition of confiscation upon emigration. In the land that once served as the heart of the Toprocravic clan, it is announced that any who still believe that they are sealskins are free to leave the dominion of the beast-bringers and rejoin their people. All that our tribe asks for in exchange is that they leave behind their belongings – any beasts or copper that they own shall be seized.

As expected, the remaining traditionalists who cling to their culture flee in their dozens, eager to reunite with their tribe and leave behind the tyranny of the Protavic people. What they weren't told is that all of the wealth that was seized when they were left behind is being funnelled into Toprocravic territory. Specifically, it's being planted in the hands of greedy sealskins who are all too eager to act as informants and agents of our tribe.

As a result, these emigrants find it hard to settle down amongst their own people, as anyone who has benefited from the generosity of the Protavic seems eager to make their lives – and the lives of anyone who aids them – a living hell. This leads to friction within the Toprocravic tribe, as well as inequality. While there is a significant underclass of bitter sealskins, most of whom don't even own boats and must comb the shores of the Croglatol in an effort to subsist, there is also a growing clique of well-off informants who are loyal to the Protavic – or at least to the copper they provide.

The friction between these factions seems to distract the Toprocravic from any distaste that they still harbour for our tribe – they're too focused on infighting to ponder the prospect of independence. Not only that, but with the exodus of the last sealskins from Protavic territory, life on the northern bank of the Choslitol becomes much more harmonious. All who remain are now loyal to our tribe and consider themselves either Protavic or Anamilivic.

>The civilisation gets +10 Cohesion.

A generation passes.

A Vuvovic slave-catching expedition returns to our tribe with a report of a strange sighting. They believe that they witnessed Scagravic out in the Grascan, near the borders of Protavic territory. It seems as though they have begun to expand across the river that separates our tribe from theirs. True to their name, the tree-dweller have taken to the great blackwoods that tower over the forest and turned them into their homes. During the day, they come down from these monolithic specimens to forage and hunt and in night, they rest in hollows that they carve high up in the trunks of their arboreal homes.