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Your name is Shu...and it's almost time.

You've spent the past few hours trying to keep you and your family's minds off the inevitable, but as you all surround the calcite table at the center of the dimly-lit room, you look around to see that the inevitable is all that's occupying your collective thoughts. Turning your attentions to the diminutive figure across from you, you meet a pair of mismatched eyes that twinkle with wisdom beyond their apparent years, a child-like creation that's being puppeteered by a girl hundreds of miles away.

"Orwell, you have the floor." You say, nodding across the table to the construct that stands at the other end, its small hands folded primly behind its back.

"Lemme just cut right to the chase - two more groups decided to throw themselves at Alpha." She declares brusquely. "Now before anyone asks, they're, like...SUPER dead. But on the bright side, their kinda embarrassing loss is our gain!"

"What'd they give us?" Gina asks insistently, the brunette at your right leaning forwards with her hands on the table.

"We can safely say that Alpha's immune to stuns and limb severing, though given what you've told me about your plan then I don't think those'll be an issue." Orwell explains, her breezy brusque strangely at odds with the petite body she's inhabiting. "Now, since I've been able to keep her off your trail, I'm happy to say that you've got the pick of the litter as far as where to stage this showdown."

"Like I said - as long as it's not Carroll's Forest, then I'm good with throwing down anywhere." Rath remarks, cracking the knuckles of both hands.

"Frankly, a more open area would lend our plan an advantage, anyway." The red-head's aunt chimes in, November's platinum frame looming just behind your brawler. "Dorian can shuffle teams without dealing with obstructions, and we've got clear line of sight - everybody's even on an even playing fiel-"

"Fuck 'even'." Jackie interrupts, the rail-thin girl's arms folded and reminding you more of a pair of jack-knives than proper limbs. "We hit this T-1000 bitch as hard and fast as we can. We got that Relic Magpie used to get the jump on us, right? Then our first move is obvious. No mercy, no openings, no bullshit - we hit her with everything we've got, right off the bat."

You stay quiet, at that...because you know full well it's not going to be that easy.

~~~

Previous Vein: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/4168332/

Archive: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=Body%20Horror%20Quest

Character Abilities, Ver 4: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IGq15jshM2iDN8J2yvYF6fdP9yu9JSPDs2FCEYAJ6As/edit?usp=sharing

Trypophilic Hive, Ver. 3: https://pastebin.com/bUWG6TNF

Relics, Ver. 7: https://pastebin.com/kHzW2hbd

Dual Techs: https://pastebin.com/2jZ5Zhyx

Twitter: https://twitter.com/bodyhorrorquest?lang=en

Quest Fan Works: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1comL20X2jUrPO0p7QMdF
>>
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"Nice! Loving that energy, girl! LOVING it!" Orwell says, applauding Jackie's gusto. "That said, if errybody charges in there at once then you're gonna get freaking curb-stomped. Alpha's *built* to wreck groups and solo combatants alike, and with her health and regen where it is then the best we can probably hope for is a war of attrition."

"Orwell, could you give us an updated run-down of what we're dealing with?" You ask.

"Sure! I've got it all up here, so whenever you're ready to do your thing!" Orwell replies with a smile that begins to falter as everyone present looks to you. "You've...you can just use the empathic field, right?"

"I gave it up." Comes your simple reply, prompting Orwell's eyes to widen with shock. "I'll tell you all about it when we have that interview, but for now? Let's focus on Alpha."

"I...alright. Wow. Anyway, uh...here's what I've got. It's nothing major, but West Prime definitely made some tweaks since the last go-round."

>>WEST ALPHA (Updated)
>>HEALTH: 42,467% (+7134%)
>>BIO: N/A
>>ACT: 6/6
>>RELICS: Variable, prefers augmentation-based and mix of melee/speed enhancers. Possesses four Tier 5 Forge Cores, Generation Halo.
>>IMMUNE: Acid, Frost, Blunt, Crushing, STUN, SEVERING
>>ABSORB: Heat, Elec
>>UNIQUE - Unfeeling: Utterly immune to any and all positive or negative emotion-influencing abilities from any source.

"Not a lot of difference, but enough to require a bit more forethought." Gina muses, whipping out her phone as it crackles with Neuromantic energy, tapping away as she updates her notes.

"Aside from some straight-forward buffs, there was one other thing I noticed." Orwell adds thoughtfully. "Alpha's been keeping some Relics on her person. Consumables by the looks of them, and she hasn't used them during the last two fights. She's been saving them."

"Seems we're not the only side that's had ample time to dwell on the other...she'll be ready for us. But not *all* of us."

You turn, surveying the eight other brave souls that've decided to throw in their lot with yours, for better oor worse. There's even your four Dream Daughters, the motley crew of your former foes having taken up arms to protect themselves and those that they've come to call friends. The might of your family, the dogged optimism of the Barbers, and the finely-honed teamwork of the Midnight Crew - of all that you have at your disposal, you can only hope it'll be enough to end Doctor West's finest creation...

...and, someday, the Doctor herself.

>>"I think we have everything we need...so let's end this, shall we?" [Decide battleground/teams/Relics, then initiate encounter]

>>"There's one or two Relics I want to craft before we goad Alpha into a confrontation..." [Choose Relics to Craft: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b_-8s0tin7DCQxITm6C69QULRnM_ibDfg18iV4dc7Fc/edit?usp=sharing ]

>>Write-In

AND

>>Choose elemental resistances/immunities for HOLLY, UZU, JOHANNA, and B'NI.

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
>>4208306
>Quest Fan Works: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1comL20X2jUrPO0p7QMdF

Not sure what is up with this link but for some reason i cant open it. i only get an error message.

Anyway its good to be back
>>
(Gentlemen, it's good to be back. Voting shall remain open for the next four hours, and I do hope that everyone had a good week.)

(Regarding the combat guide, my computer ate it but I'm in the middle of reconstructing it as we speak, so if there's anything aside from resistance/immunity/absorption mechanics and the like that you'd like somewhat clarified in a simple manner, then by all means let me know and I'll add it to the guide.)
>>
>>4208318
good to be back. week was decent enough, and hope yours was too.

BHOP, whats the most hill-heavy area we have encountered so far?
>>
>>4208312
>>HEALTH: 42,467% (+7134%)
Oh, damn it, she did get a Health score whose last digit is higher than the first, just in case we REV VITA'd her as an opening move. I knew that West was going to do that with the upgrades, I fucking knew it.

Okay, I have a few questions.

>Does Alpha's scaling speed boost count constructs as opponents?
I'd hope that swarmlings can just be assumed to not count, but important to ask all the same. Something I have more doubt about is things like the Many or Spirit Shells. I don't want us using them to supplement groups to backfire on us.

>How is "opponent" qualified for terms of someone who doesn't engage Alpha in a fight?
Would Dorian running in and grabbing someone only to immediately extract them trigger Alpha's "match speed to fastest opponent" boost? Because that greatly decreases our ability to cycle through groups, if so.

>What new swarmling types does Shu have?
We should have gotten Murphlings and Crowlings from the new skills acquired. I can see the Murphlings being potentially useful here.

>Does the Generating Halo count as a Generator ability for purposes of anti-class effects?
We have some abilities that make Generator powers automatically backfire. We also can potentially craft anti-Generator ammo for guns, like Magpie used.

>>4208318
Yeah, good to be back. I've been simultaneously looking forward to and dreading this Vein.
>>
>>4208316
(Odd...it worked fine on my computer. Here's the updated link.)

https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1comL20X2jUrPO0p7QMdFinwAwdXHre2F9A5bdXif7_k/mobilebasic

>>4208320
(That would be the gemstone-like cliffs leading up to the Dissassociated. Before they get too steep, there's an area that's part skin and part humoral 'gem'.)

>>4208323
(I'll be answering these questions shortly, so thanks for bearing with me.)
>>
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>>4208318
the weekend was good.
My players in my DND Capaing encountered a demigod while making plans to move against a Draco Lich

I hope your week was good.

My own was a time crunch trying to get all the pictures together while i had my vacation here is what i think is probably my best drawn picture of the bunch

>>4208327
Thank you very much. it was telling me that the document didn't exist or something.

Now it works
>>
>>4208327
alright, let me rephrase that BHOP sorry.
what is the most hill-like area we could justify using given our usual morals?
>>
>>4208328
Oh, that's a really nice drawing. Those are the Forge Tentacles, I assume? Cool, you did a good job on this. One negative critique I have is that the face looks a bit off, but given that she's a weird mutant I'm not sure how much of that is intentional. Something about the nose ridge, it feels a bit snake-like.
>>
>>4208332
>it feels a bit snake-like.
accidental but pretty much the intended effect. She will later turn into a much more snakelike creature due to the Poison Unnatural predator power she picked up.

Not to mention i suck at drawing faces. The normal body proportions are quite easy if i use a 3D Model as the base but Noses are a pain to draw. Especially if your new to it like i am
>>
>>4208318
>>4208327
also, you forgot the Viscera Vincula on the Relics sheet.
>>
>>4208323

>>Does Alpha's scaling speed boost count constructs as opponents? I'd hope that swarmlings can just be assumed to not count, but important to ask all the same. Something I have more doubt about is things like the Many or Spirit Shells. I don't want us using them to supplement groups to backfire on us.

(Given what Orwell’s seen, Alpha still scales off constructs, but to a lesser degree than normal combatants. It typically takes ten constructs to equal one extra combatant for the sake of Alpha’s speed/ACT buff.)

>>How is "opponent" qualified for terms of someone who doesn't engage Alpha in a fight? Would Dorian running in and grabbing someone only to immediately extract them trigger Alpha's "match speed to fastest opponent" boost? Because that greatly decreases our ability to cycle through groups, if so.

(As long as he’s gone by the beginning/end of a given round, then he doesn’t trigger the ability in question. Now, she may forge something to help mitigate this, but you’d be able to get away with this trick for a while. Now, the second Dorian takes a combat action then speed-matching *would* be in effect, so take care that he doesn’t make any openly hostile moves.)

>>What new swarmling types does Shu have? We should have gotten Murphlings and Crowlings from the new skills acquired. I can see the Murphlings being potentially useful here.

(Ah, let me update those. Thank you for the reminder.)

>>Does the Generating Halo count as a Generator ability for purposes of anti-class effects? We have some abilities that make Generator powers automatically backfire. We also can potentially craft anti-Generator ammo for guns, like Magpie used.

(If it wasn’t max-level, it would. As it stands, its effects have been tied into Alpha’s forging process in an unnatural way, so it’s not working the way it would if it was being used by a normal Daughter.)

>>4208318
>>Yeah, good to be back. I've been simultaneously looking forward to and dreading this Vein.

(Likewise, on both counts.)

>>4208328
(This looks absolutely fantastic! Nicely done.)

>>4208331
(The mushroom-infested plains outside Almath would likely be your best bet. Alternatively, the gently-sloping hills outside the Envious City could also work well.)

>>4208344
(The confounded Vincula somehow always escapes me. I’ll hunt it down shortly.)
>>
>>4208312
Partial Vote;

>Battleground; Let November and Dorian decide, though keep it away from anyplace populated. Hills would also be preferred.
>Basic Plan; Have everyone mix up both who is in combat and who is on whos team. No one stays in combat for more than 2 Turns, and each team that tags out reconfigures itself with others randomly to avoid West getting used to the teams themselves either. Dorian avoids being counted as in Combat while he helps as best he can to get teams in and out of combat. Note, our goal is to remove the 4 Cores from West Alpha, over simply beating her down directly. Avoid enhancing one's speed beyond what ones current teammates can match.
>Opening; November and anyone else who can match her range, will start combat by bombarding West Alpha from as far away as possible with her Gauss Rifle. While this is happening, all teams will spread out, taking a different position around West Alpha. From there, whatever team West Alpha moves towards first will open, but otherwise if necessary for us to attack first, Shus Team will.

>Initial Teams;
>>Shu, Sia, Quinn, and Isabelle.
>>Jackie, Sugar, Julia, Amara, and Holly.
>>Rosa, Ace, Rath, Francine, and Uzu.
>>Gina, Keane, Betty, November, and Johanna.

still working on Relic Loadouts and DD immunities, but just wanted to get my initial ideas out, aswell as say Dorian should probably not take Intertus, and should take healing Relics like Surgeons, as he wont have any better use of any extra time he has than to heal folks up as he moves them, and Keane and Francine wont be able to be sure they will be in position to do such a job, aswell as them getting too caught up in it might weaken the lines too hard at times.

>>4208352
alright, either of those works then.
>>
>>4208352
>It typically takes ten constructs to equal one extra combatant for the sake of Alpha’s speed/ACT buff.)

So spawning large amounts of constructs is a bad idea. So we will need to craft quality constructs. Urgh
>>
>>4208352
>(Given what Orwell’s seen, Alpha still scales off constructs, but to a lesser degree than normal combatants. It typically takes ten constructs to equal one extra combatant for the sake of Alpha’s speed/ACT buff.)
Well, that's going to seriously impede Shu. But then again, Alpha is built to counter us. I was really hoping for some Many spam to take down Alpha's Relics, too, but if we can't have too many constructs on the field that's going to limit that tactic. I was thinking ten Many each using Murphy's Mandate, which given the Many's bonuses for acting in concert would, by my rough math, leave Alpha with only a 6% chance of spawning a Relic. But that's a bad idea, since ten Many would count as an entire extra combatant on the field.

>(As long as he’s gone by the beginning/end of a given round, then he doesn’t trigger the ability in question. Now, she may forge something to help mitigate this, but you’d be able to get away with this trick for a while. Now, the second Dorian takes a combat action then speed-matching *would* be in effect, so take care that he doesn’t make any openly hostile moves.)
Okay, good. I'm thinking that we should also have Dorian make his familiars in advance. Normally we'd let them spawn from people getting downed, but if Dorian's not going to be "in combat" when people get knocked out, that's not going to work. So might as well have additional hands to grab people and run off with.

>(Ah, let me update those. Thank you for the reminder.)
Cool.

>(If it wasn’t max-level, it would. As it stands, its effects have been tied into Alpha’s forging process in an unnatural way, so it’s not working the way it would if it was being used by a normal Daughter.)
Ah, darn. I was hoping that triggering it to backfire could jam up her systems, but at max level it doesn't count for that? Too bad.
>>
>>4208352
oh, BHOP, are any Hyenas coming, or is it a 'if they are, not yet' thing? and what of Tinker Tailor?
>>
>>4208355
>>4208312
fuck it, heres what little ive got i know i want for Relics, but honestly im at a loss overall. im also wondering if any of our initiative modifier relics should even be touched, as its hard to know exactly how those overlap with speed.... also speed and movement is hard to know exactly how they overlap too, now that i think about it.

Defiants Relic Loadouts;
>Shu; Contender[Maxim](x3 Parabellum, x3 Honey each), Matrons,

>>Holly; Uzi.
>>Johanna; Hydras Heart.
>>Isabelle; Shawl.
>>Uzu; Gamma Pharynx.

>Gina; The Spine, Membrum Automata,

>Rath;

>Julia; Cutis Tractus, Manus Caelorum,

>Amara; Vocem Virtutis(), Shawl(upgraded), Hearth Rod, Red Devils, Vocalis Nocere.

>Francine; Spectacles, Sui Interitus,

>November;

>Dorian; GoreGrowth(Verurteilung), Gear, Surgeons, Sui Sacrificium,

Dream Daughters Immunities;
>Holly;
>Uzu;
>Johanna;
>Isabelle;
>>
>>4208371
Oh yeah one thing we do need to do before we can leave. We need to upgrade the Hydras heart to remove the drawback that taking fire damage removes all regen from the daughter instead of just taking away the extra regen granted by the relic.
>>
>>4208376
not something we can just do. maybe Tinker could but we would have to ask. also dont personally think its a big enough deal to put everything on hold over.
>>
>>Murphlings (HP++, DEF+, SPD+): These stout, asymmetrical swarmlings passively exude a field of disaster, with each one boasting a 10% chance for a foe’s constructs and Relics to be generated as malformed creations. However, attacks inflicted by Murphlings add to this chance with a stacking 2% bonus to the swarmling that inflicted the strike, allowing a swift Murphling to become a disastrous force to be reckoned with, all their own. (Cost: 80% HEALTH, 40% BIO)

>>Crowlings (ATK++, SPD++, CRIT+): An alarmingly vicious variant of your typical swarmling, these feathered fiends benefit from the boons granted by both your Core skill tree and the Murderous Flock ability in addition to boasting greatly enhanced attack and speed. (Cost: 20% BIO)

>>4208365
(The Hyenas may come if they're able to deal with a situation that's arisen on their end, but they fully intend to join you.)
>>
>>4208371
Well, Shu should have the Relics we got off of Magpie, I think, the Longcoat and Pendant. Solid defense boost, and Shu's going to need them if our theory that Alpha will target her proves correct.

Rath needs the Gutgrab Daggers, naturally, Alpha's immune to Blunt so she needs to make her punches Piercing.

I think the Margrave's Blade would be a good idea for November, give her something to parry with.

November also needs us to craft some belts of Radiant-damage ammo before we leave, her guns do Piercing/Heat and Alpha absorbs Heat, so we need to keep that damage from being mitigated.

Arbiter's Judgement should go on November, too, even if it can't go into one of her slots. As written, it only gives the bonus round to allies in the same zone, so we want her to get that first shot off. Actually, if we're doing that we should group our snipers all together onto one team. November, Gina with Lyudmila's Welcome, maybe Rath throwing Boils at long range, and any other distance attacks this party has.

Side note, BHOP >>4208392: Does channeling Ivory Aeturnum through Lyudmila's Welcome with its level four ability allow each shot from the Welcome to count as three bullets? That could be a good opener. I'm tempted to go with a Cancerous Payload, instead, but there's no way that West didn't give Alpha a counter to that.
>>
>>4208318
The muse had me practically writing nearly 24/7. I got so many important scenes done in regards to dialogue and key events, but it's also forced me to revise my planning of the number of possible chapters involved as well as the involvement of the cast in Cradleton.

Some spoiled hints I'm willing to divulge as sneak preview hints:

An amalgam will be involved. It's a fucking monster. I had to write down it's entire biography and diet (as well as what kind of daughters it ate) in order make sure it stays true to the setting according to my notes.

Carter will definitely get a relic weapon that is better suited for a gentlemen of his caliber.


>>4208381
>>4208376
>>4208360
I'm not sure if any of you actually considered this, but have we ever crafted specialized bullets for our guns or Gina?

Because some of the bullets I theorycrafted in the previous vein could be useful.
>>
>>4208404
>sneak preview hints
Sounds interesting. Definitely will be interesting to read.

Looking forward to that Amalgam. And nice to hear that muse got to you. That zone is something pretty comforting once you reached it. Though it can be infuriating to try and get there
>>
>>4208401
>Shu
yeah, sure on those i suppose.

>Rath
hrm, actually a very good point, alright.

>November
im not sure the Margrave is good here at all. she wont be near the same person to use it, so she wont be able to really parry any better with it than any other relic, as if shes not blocking for someone else, theres no innate advantage to it over anything else solid. i mean... unless she can mark her own body or the core inside of herself as the 'object'? if not, i disagree its worth taking.

as for the ammo though, agreed. ill toss Radiant onto the Uzi too.

as for Arbiters, again, im not sure thats a good idea. it again depends on exactly how things overlap and what they count as. initiative could be part/related to speed too heavily to risk it.

and no, we dont want or expect November to stay at sniper range. as stated, sure, they can help her with the opening barrage if possible, but once thats done November will be in the rotation with everyone else.

>>4208392
a few things here id like answers to, if you dont mind.

>>4208404
we have not, but i also dont remember those and am unsure if they ever got to a point it felt right using them.
>>
>>4208409
In my case when the muse gets to me it's more infuriating to me that irl events force me to put the pen down, such as eating or sleeping.
>>
>>4208415
>im not sure the Margrave is good here at all. she wont be near the same person to use it, so she wont be able to really parry any better with it than any other relic, as if shes not blocking for someone else, theres no innate advantage to it over anything else solid. i mean... unless she can mark her own body or the core inside of herself as the 'object'? if not, i disagree its worth taking.
I'm just trying to fill out slots, I guess. There's not really anything that great to put in November's arm slots, at least the Margrave means she can fill that role if need be.

>as for Arbiters, again, im not sure thats a good idea. it again depends on exactly how things overlap and what they count as. initiative could be part/related to speed too heavily to risk it.
>and no, we dont want or expect November to stay at sniper range. as stated, sure, they can help her with the opening barrage if possible, but once thats done November will be in the rotation with everyone else.
Well, we can always ask BHOP if Arbiter's Judgement counts as a speed booster. I don't think it does, but let's make sure. BHOP >>4208392, can we use Arbiter's Judgement safely?

As for staying at range, no, I'm not trying to suggest that. I'm just talking about the opener. Arbiter's Judgement only does anything on the first turn, so after that initial barrage it doesn't matter. The sniper team is free to disperse and merge with other teams as need be after that.
>>
>>4208404
Ooh, got to love giant super-monsters with a history. I look forward to seeing it.
>>
>>4208425
but if we're opening up with a surprise attack, it wouldn't really matter i dont think. depends on exactly how 'combat' is counted i suppose, but with the point being such a long ranged barrage i cant see them needing a boost like that.

as for the arm slot, maybe, but id still think theres something better, aswell that again also depends on the whole initiative debacle. least she has SOME options for her arms, unlike the almost nothing for her legs...
>>
>>4208401
(I would rule that channeling it does, yes.)

>>4208425
(Arbiter's Judgement is absolutely safe to use, as it voids Alpha's counter.)

>>4208415
(Regarding the Margrave, November's in a unique position to where she certainly may delegate her Core or a Relic as a valid protection target. If there's anything else you'd like to know, then feel free to ask.)
>>
>>4208435
>Arbiter's Judgement is absolutely safe to use, as it voids Alpha's counter.
so... is this then implying Initiative IS considered part of speed? as that seems to imply if it wasn't for the caveat of Arbiter, the fact its an initiative relic would still proc the speed equalization on Alpha.
>>
>>4208435
also, for the Spiritus Shells, the original Resistance is only for elemental damage types. is the sacrificing both Resistances for one Immunity still limited to elemental damage types, or does the immunity expand to any damage type?
>>
>>4208436
(Yes, it is. There's a bit of a weird interplay of speed and ACTs that have an interaction, and due to that difference it can get a little confusing as to how speed and the like is normally counted.)

>>4208440
(It's specifically for an elemental damage type, at curent level.)
>>
>>4208446
>(Yes, it is. There's a bit of a weird interplay of speed and ACTs that have an interaction, and due to that difference it can get a little confusing as to how speed and the like is normally counted.)
Okay, so Arbiter's Judgement is a safe initiative booster, everything else is a danger. Great. Later, Pacekeeper's Box and Crimson Jester's Masque, you're just going to make more trouble for us in this fight.
>>
>>4208446
got it. thanks.

>>4208425
yeah so all our initiative relics are useless, not just our speed relics. fun.
>>
>>4208463
Acid resistance is redundant, Kynar Chitin gives our Dream Daughters immunity to it. Let's go with Electricity, instead, get the whole spread of standard elemental damage. Acid immunity, Heat, Electricity and Cold resistance. Other than that, looks good.
>>
>>4208312
>>4208355
>>4208371
right, Orders, amended. sorry for any bamboozle, but a certain relic tripped me up aswell;

>Battleground; Let November and Dorian decide, though keep it away from anyplace populated. Hills would also be preferred.
>Basic Plan; Have everyone mix up both who is in combat and who is on whose team. No one stays in combat for more than 2 Turns, and each team that tags out reconfigures itself with others randomly to avoid West getting used to the teams themselves either. Dorian avoids being counted as in Combat while he helps as best he can to get teams in and out of combat. Note, our goal is to remove the 4 Cores from West Alpha, over simply beating her down directly. Avoid enhancing one's speed beyond what ones current teammates can match.
>Opening; November and anyone else who can match her range, will start combat by bombarding West Alpha from as far away as possible with her Gauss Rifle. While this is happening, all teams will spread out, taking a different position around West Alpha. From there, whatever team West Alpha moves towards first will open, but otherwise if necessary for us to attack first, Shus Team will.

>Initial Teams;
>>Shu, Sia, Quinn, and Isabelle.
>>Jackie, Sugar, Julia, Amara, and Holly.
>>Rosa, Ace, Rath, Francine, and Uzu.
>>Gina, Keane, Betty, November, and Johanna.

Defiants Relic Loadouts;
>Shu; Contender[Maxim](x3 Parabellum, x3 Honey each), Matrons, Gunslingers Longcoat, Paranoid Pendant.

>>Holly; Uzi[Boatload of Radiant Magazines].
>>Johanna; Hydras Heart.
>>Isabelle; Shawl.
>>Uzu; Gamma Pharynx.

>Gina; The Spine, Membrum Automata.

>Rath; Gutgrab Daggers, Ventrem Lanceam.

>Julia; Cutis Tractus, Manus Caelorum.

>Amara; Vocem Virtutis(Upgrade; RHO and NUKA)(Free; NUKA), Shawl(upgraded), Hearth Rod, Red Devils, Vocalis Nocere

>Francine; Spectacles, Sui Interitus.

>November;[Boatload of Radiant Ammo], Arbiters Judgement(Unslotted), Montags(Unslotted), Margraves(Arm), Dainsleif(Arm), Ego(Leg), Nail(Leg), Whistle(Head)(GRA NUKA), Vincula(Chest), Artisanal Rebuke(Core).

>Dorian; GoreGrowth(Verurteilung), Gear, Surgeons, Sui Sacrificium.

Dream Daughters Immunities;
>All; Acid and Frost Resistance.
>>
>>4208468
>>4208470
>>4208312
sure, amending slightly;
Dream Daughters Immunities;
>All; Elec and Frost Resistance.
>>
>>4208312
Supporting>>4208470
and >>4208489
>>
>>4208489
Alright, cool, let's do this.

>>4208312
Supporting

>>4208470
>>4208489


Hey, weird thought: Matron's Stoicism gives Shu the same resistances and immunities her "Brood" does. Does that only apply to permanent changes to their resistances from level investment, or do temporary boosts like customizing the Spirit Shells count too? Does Shu have resistance to Elec and Frost now?
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>>4208495
i have absolutely no idea.

>>4208446
but i know someone who would!
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>>4208495
(She absolutely resists frost and elec, now.)
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>>4208503
Neato. Combine that with the Longcoat and Shu is pretty safe against non-Radiant elemental damage. Now to hope that Psychica Spiralis is enough to keep her from getting punched to death with non-elemental damage.
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>>4208505
probably still not worth changing, but i just realized with how Immunities and Resistances all stack, we probably could get Shu and the Shells Absorption to Acid or Heat if we traded the Shells Resistances for an Immunity.

probably not worth it here as West Alpha will probably shift what she tries on us, but something to keep in mind for later fights.
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>>4208509
I'm not sure it even works that way anymore. I know that resistance no longer stacks to immunity, less certain if immunity can stack to absorption.
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>>4208514
what? Resistances still very much stack to immunity. all BHOP did was increase how many it takes to make Immunity, and then how many makes Absorption. its still all technically just X levels of Resistance though. think its... 4? 5? levels of Resistance is Immunity, then id assume the same amount more to Absorption, then technically he said theres things after that but doubt we'll ever see those. technically, Immunity and absorption is just X levels of resistance being given a different name due to getting new effects.
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>>4208518
No, they're separate things entirely. Resistance has diminishing returns so that it can't stack to total immunity, and abilities that ignore immunity don't necessarily ignore resistance. https://pastebin.com/WxHMhVhq
>>
Bleh. I got caught up with something during the past hour, so I didn't really get a chance to discuss the battle plans. Also, the timing of this vein has put a damper on my muse as now I'm torn between participating in this battle vein and focusing my energies on letting the muse flow to keep it going and go on a writing spree in order to fill out the chapters and finish Carter's story.
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>>4208531
i suggest you keep following your muse.

Getting back into the grove can be really grueling once your out.

But that is just my personal opinion.
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>>4208529
nothing about that says or implied Resistance doesn't still equal Immunity and Absorption eventually, and said stacking is what BHOP has stated several times in the past. ill trust what he was stated in thread over an incomplete document he is still working on and has not officially posted.
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>>4208535
>Levels of resistance may be granted by both abilities and Relics, with resistance stacking to grant greater damage mitigation, albeit with diminishing returns.

This says diminishing returns.
If we assume that it is function that is somewhat formed like a curve it is very likely it will never reach 100% Resistance.

>abilities that negate resistance do nothing to immunity or absorption

if immunity's are not affected by abilities that reduce resistances and the other way around, he makes a good case for not being all part of the same thing.
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>>4208535
>>4208542
At least that is how that reads to me.

I can be wrong though
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>>4208535
Yes, he's said that several times in the past, and then we expressed concerns with the game balance of the system and he changed it. Hold up, I'm looking for the quote. I've got him saying "I believe I've settled on them being separate, I'll have a finished version later", but I'm not seeing the finished version.
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>>4208542
>>4208545
>>4208547
well yeah, but even before any changes when BHOP did 100% confirm Resistances lead to Immunities, Immunities were still, er, immune to resistance effects. that didnt and doesnt mean anything, due to it already working like that.

as for otherwise, i read it more of the fact that, once you gain Immunity, you arent gaining anything else from Resistances. they're just extra levels to get to Absorption, then whatever is next. pretty heavy diminishing returns for sure.

>>4208547
all he said and all we were concerned about was how fast we gained Immunities and Absorption, due to the fact it took like only two levels to equal an Immunity, then like 3 for Absorption, yet he was handing Resistances out like candy. only change he said he made then was bumping up how many equals each.
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>>4208553
>all he said and all we were concerned about was how fast we gained Immunities and Absorption, due to the fact it took like only two levels to equal an Immunity, then like 3 for Absorption, yet he was handing Resistances out like candy. only change he said he made then was bumping up how many equals each.
Yes, that's what he initially proposed, in Vein 33. He later said in Vein 34 that he had been doing testing behind the scenes and favored a system where resistance and immunity are completely separate. I don't think there's been any further commentary, though the pastebin does seem to suggest that they're separate if having both resistance and immunity to a damage type is possible and even potentially desirable.
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>>4208579
and im positive since then he has re-stated they are not. he also could be talking about how immunity gains extra defenses, over the stacking methods being removed. i simply disagree but whatever, we wont get anywhere arguing over something that has and still is way too vague for us to be interpreting ourselves.

fuck it. honestly im just growing tired of this. not just this topic, but im beginning to just not enjoy this system at all anymore. im honestly not even looking forward to this fight really anymore, even from just a combat perspective. its just getting all too annoying and cumbersome. the rules are no longer really at all clear even to the base level we need them to be in areas, and the bloat often starts to make it feel like trying to dig through a deck of cards for the perfect level for the situation, over letting actual creativity take the lead in fights.
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>>4208587
I'm mostly okay with the system, but it does definitely feel sometimes like I rifle through the deck, as you put it. Just looking at all the many options we have available, checking to make sure there isn't a feature that would save us from whatever nasty situation we're in. I mean, I like that we have these wide arsenals of interesting niche abilities, those times when we realize we've got some cool trick we can pull out are really cool. Like when we realized that we could detonate the landscape against Magpie, that was awesome. But it certainly would make things flow easier if we had more tightly constructed power sets. Less time spent on agonizing over whether we're missing something important, if we could have solved things more simply and feeling like we're screwing up by not making optimal use of our powers.
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>>4208593
i still love alot about it too, but i dunno, the issues like i mentioned and the bloat just... feel like the parts i love are starting to get overshadowed, if we even understand properly what we can do at all. id prefer fewer tricks and such if it allowed it to feel like we could use what we have more freely, over it feeling often like there no point because an otherwise more boring option is just so suited to the situation of course we're gonna use it over anything, but alot of those really are just a more simple, straight forward way of doing it. like pressing a button, or something, over actually going out and doing something yourself.

and i mean, we cant even actually be 100% positive what BHOP means when he says 'construct' in an ability, as just one example of many.
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>>4208602
Yeah, I get that. I think some of our best abilities are the ones that are inherently versatile, with level-ups expanding on options instead of giving us entirely new ones. That way we can just hold a generalized idea of the ability in our head instead of having to devote memory to every individual facet. Like Hundred-Handed, that's a good example.
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>>4208531
(Given how difficult I know it can be to get into the creative groove, my advice would be to focus on your current story, if I'm being honest. You're a great writer, and flexing that creativity is important.)

>>4208587
>>4208593
(In regards to the concerns you've both put out there, I'd like to say that the tweaked system isn't just for resistances, but combat feel as a whole. Digging deep into the numbers, resistances, and the like is my job, and given the complexity of the system, that's the very reason why I opted to make the interface the way it is - your clever plans and off-the-wall strategies utilizing a strange toolkit of abilities are the things at the center of this system, and what I want to highlight as opposed to making this an exercise in you and the other players crunching numbers.)

(I could tell you the specifics, but then it all just comes down to counting cards and playing an RTS with everyone simply doing the obvious, middle-of-the-road options. Thats no fun, and it goes against exactly what I wanted to have the sustem be in the first place. Blow up the ground under Magpie's feet. Use your Hundred-Handed's instant constriction to make a rail gun. Slap Platelings on foes and yank them into yoyr Ravenous Maw as a free action. Telefrag people with dickish Rook shenanigans. Be weird, be clever, and I will work to make it happen. I wanted the rules to be a platform and toolkit from which interesting things can spring, and not a shackle that'll hold you down.)

(The numbers are for me to fiddle with and quantify your awesome plans, and aren't at the heart of the system. YOU are the heart and soul of this system, and indeed this very game.)

(Now, all that being said - works been a nightmare today, so I'll be posting as soon as I am able. Odds are that you'll encounter West Alpha this evening, with there being plenty of time to plan your opening surprise round, if that's how you wish to play this. Thank you for bearing with me as we've recently been cut to half staff, and I am glad to hear everyone had a good past week.)
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>>4208645
>>4208622
>>4208602
>(I could tell you the specifics, but then it all just comes down to counting cards and playing an RTS with everyone simply doing the obvious, middle-of-the-road options. Thats no fun, and it goes against exactly what I wanted to have the sustem be in the first place. Blow up the ground under Magpie's feet. Use your Hundred-Handed's instant constriction to make a rail gun. Slap Platelings on foes and yank them into your Ravenous Maw as a free action. Telefrag people with dickish Rook shenanigans. Be weird, be clever, and I will work to make it happen. I wanted the rules to be a platform and toolkit from which interesting things can spring, and not a shackle that'll hold you down.)
SEE!?
THIS IS WHAT GETS MY GROOVE GOING. WHEN WE GO OFF THE RAILS WITH CREATIVITY. WHERE WE HAVE FREE REIGN TO GET WIGGLY AND WEIRD WITH CREATIVE MIND GAMES.

But then I have to deal with the council.

le sigh.
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>>4208645
Sorry to hear work is so busy OP.

I take it your team has been reduced so much due to the Virus?
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>>4208645
no, i get that, but its not numbers that are really the issue. the issue(or well, one of the two mentioned), is its starting to feel like those numbers are being replaced by a deck instead, which isnt any less constricting. its at times an odd case of giving us TOO much, to the point we often have no excuse to be creative, over basically playing the 'card' of say randomly, 'Ignition level 5' or something. its becoming a slog where at times or with some abilities it just feels like we constantly have to dig through yet again level upon level for one line and one ability to use, over just thinking up another way, because there no excuse NOT to press the 'easy' button when we have it and characters lives are on the line if we dont. the issue is you cant give us high stakes then expect us to experiment over a surefire solution you have given us, even if theres no fun or creativity in the surefire solution.

it also as said doesn't help that none of that matters when half the time we're guessing wildly about what something does.

i appreciate and love you keep the numbers overall to yourself, but to me personally i just feel like you've ended up replacing it with something not at all any different when it comes down to it. at least, way more often than is fun.

as for work, sorry to hear that, and hope it evens out a bit for you. not sure what we have to really hold us off that long before we hit West Alpha honestly, aside of course from your work extending voting times.

>>4208649
maybe actually read the conversation and what people are saying about that?
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>>4208645
>Now, all that being said - works been a nightmare today, so I'll be posting as soon as I am able.
I'm sorry to hear that, BHOP. Take as much time as you need, and I hope that your day eases up.

As for the issues with the system, like I said I appreciate all the weird little abilities we have, when we do think of a way to use them they're awesome. It just feels like sometimes we've got too many of them, and it gives choice paralysis where I spend too much time looking through the character sheets wondering which is the best move. I should be coming up with creative uses of more basic powers, but there are so many options that my mind often goes in the direction of searching for an existing module instead of crafting a new one. I wonder if it might be an artifact of the idea that Shu was originally supposed to be a solo agent, having lots of distinct modules to the power sets make more sense when there's only one character for the players to keep track of.
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>>4208656
>maybe actually read the conversation and what people are saying about that?

Sorry about lack of reading comprehension. my attention's been divided between the vein and Carter's story.
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>>4208669
its fine.
also forgot to mention earlier, glad to hear its chugging along so well on that. as said before, take your time and dont feel a need to rush.
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>>4208645
>>4208656
>>4208661
>>4208651
Not sure if any of you people have seen these but dear lord. The Resident Evil series gets very unsettling when everyone has their facial animations increased to 500%

RE2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDa42EDB96g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEZW91Vowz8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MZs-C2fFmk
RE3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOFDeWlCPmU
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>>4208731
Interesting. Never was interested in the Resident Evil Series but this look actually hilarious in the beginning with 200%. Very exagerrated

At 1000% well..... that is the stuff nightmares are made of.

That is probably what the insides of a very high level Glutton looks like.
Or what a xenobite can do to a persons face


The 500% ones.... Well those guys just look like inbred shitheads
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>>4208747
I sometimes imagine pure glutton daughters who have at least 1 level of vitruvian in their power sets acting this way because of the sheer amount of flapping flesh that just spasms when they talk.
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(Gentlemen, I just got back home. Work's reduced the available hours, so as a bit of silver lining I'll have more time to write for the foreseeable future.)

(As such, I just finished a quick lunch and I'll be writing shortly.)

>>4208731
(Oh my word, these always get me. Thanks for sharing, these are hilarious.)

>>4208656
>>4208661
(I appreciate your candor, and I'd like to figure out some way to make things a little simpler on your end. Would something akin to 'character guides' work, essentially being a distillation of the character's abilities, either in a few short paragraphs or as an additional card to be placed in front of the skill trees to offer a quick look at one's options in simple language, without getting too complex? What are your thoughts?)
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>>4208769
oh dang, well while im sure the cut down hours suck, i do hope you at least enjoy your extra free time.

as for the abilities, im unsure. the problem isnt i dont know the basic functions of the abilities, but of the often very necessary details of the individual levels and finding them. im honestly just pretty sure the system couldn't be fixed in a way that would really alleviate the issue without heavily revamping the whole system and level-up situation in and of itself.

the problem sorta is, if we did or even just already did what you're suggesting, we would be gimping ourselves by ignoring a massive heap of levels, but as stated the alternative often feels like shifting through walls of texts to make sure we're utilizing said levels to their fullest, but that often feels tremendously tedious and as if some levels take some choice away due to how silly it would be not to use them.

it would also get harder and harder for anything like that to truly be giving a rundown of a characters abilities and their uses as both the abilities and how many we have expands, and might be difficult to keep it feeling accurate and expansive enough to not be horribly gimping a character without it too just feeling somewhat bloated, at least as things go along.

to some degree i think the issue just wraps back around to the format. 15-20 levels with wonderful detail and usage out of each level seems amazing on paper... until you have seven characters each with 6+ abilities on them and 5-20 levels per ability with such uniqueness and usage trying to be squeezed out of most levels. and then relics stacked on top of that too is just... alot.
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>>4208769
ok, i just want to put something into perspective here.

while obviously we're not at this point yet, im just trying to point out how many things, with JUST levelables, we Anons might have to keep track of or shift through. and yes, i understand and appreciate you aswell do, but if anything its just more of the same point.

7 characters, each with at least 6 levelable abilities.
15 max levels per usually. 90 unique levels to keep track of max if we gain no new abilities and ignoring hybrids.
+5 at least for the Core, so 95 bare minimum for a full build. per character.
we have seven.
thats 665 unique levels as a max build to keep track of if we gain nothing new ever.

and that is without augments and relics being taken into account.
even assuming a MINIMUM of 5 levels per 6 abilities(which im positive we are above by now), that is bare minimum 30 per character, 210 total.

thats a damn lot to keep track of, and thats far from the exact amount we actually have. again, i get, understand, and appreciate you too have to keep track of alot, and its not 100% fully independent levels, but i dont think its unfair to point out even video games that can easily automate over half of those usually never try to give you anywhere near that much to keep track of, and even some pretty intensive and in depth games too.

thinking about it, ive never seen or played a tabletop RP that expects a single player with a single character to keep track of 30 things 'minimum'.

im sorry if it feels like im harping on you too much, or being a bit too asinine, but im just trying to put into perspective why and how it feels so tedious and bloated at times for at least me to try and actually play this and utilize things. its just... all that, and that is with me ignoring so many other factors to keep track of, some mentioned, some not, like actual depth and length of individual levels or their interactions with eachother.
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>>4208803
>>4208781
(...Is it bad that I laughed at just how monstrous those numbers are? I absolutely get where you're coming from, good grief. Post-Alpha, I'm thinking a colossal overhaul would be for the best for the sake of literally everyone's sanity and for the sake of the Quest itself. Like another Anon mentioned earlier, it's basically a complex solo system that's been multiplied by eight times, so I absolutely see where it's a massive amount to keep track of, even on the player side.)
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>>4208823
I would be more than fine with you taking the time to do that, and like i said, i apologize if i explained it a bit harshly, especially knowing it cant be easy on your end either.

...but yes. those numbers. its alot even as it is now, and its not going to get better as it is. I suppose lets try and get though this and see what we can do afterwards.
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>>4208826
(No no, your explanation wasn't harsh at all. It was effective and to the point, and I appreciate that. I just want to have fun, and for everyone present to have fun as well, and if something about the system is getting in the way of that, then I want to fix it.)
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>>4208823
It might be necessary to make sure we can make it to the endgame and not die in the depths of bureaucracy.

Lets just say that i have experienced the depth of german bureaucracy form the inside.....
The bloat is fucking real


I would be completely fine with you taking some time off to overhaul the system..... to maybe compress it a bit Less Levels would also mean i would have to write less for Mina and her Crew
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>>4208831
(I was thinking about compressing levels a great deal actually, so I appreciate that.)
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>>4208828
I appreciate it, really. just more of im half assedly trying to make it clear id not care to explain it if you didn't provide an otherwise great experience that id prefer to fix over giving up on. theres plenty good here and with what you have done, which i think as another Anon has said before, 'is so good it makes the bad more obvious and hit harder.'

also never be afraid to ask for help either BHOP, even if only in small doses.
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>>4208803
>>4208823
Let me say this first. This quest system would be a fucking dream to see in a video game.

But as it is right now. I think it's safe to say that we've hit the system's utmost limit in the amount of crunch to keep track of.

We're going into combat where a raid party of 20+ mid-high level daughters are going up against ONE daughter whose stats is theoretically on par or even greater than Marrow Dragoon in terms of sheer CRUNCH factor from the outset from the player perspective.

And keep in mind that our current battle plan is a long protracted battle where we have multiple groups going into rotation. To put this in perspective, of a gamer, West-Alpha is basically doing a Blackrock mountain Ragnaros raid where you can't afford to lose a party member and you only have one shot to get it right.

The last time we had a battle this long and protracted was during Spiraling fear.

I have now realized in Carter's story, the soon to-be-featured monster's scale of power is equivalent to a West Alpha. And that's from just it's natural and highly refined diet. And I will not go into further spoilers of how much of a threat the thing is.
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>>4208840
(I truly appreciate that, my friend. You've been a tremendous help thus far as-is, and thank you for your input as always.)
>>
>>4208312

Delegating the choice of battleground to Dorian and November, the pair elect for your family to make their stand at the Follicle Fields, the very ones that stretch long and far between the Envious City and the Calcite Cliffs. It's you, along with the full might of your family, the Barbers, the Midnight Crew, and the Metall Geschoss for good measure, all spread apart in teams across the rolling fields of golden hairs and equipped with a Commling for every pair of ears in lieu of your empathic field. Your own small cadre is composed of yourself, Isabelle, Sia, and Quinn atop one of the many hills, the other three teams barely perceptible in the distance with Dorian darting around at the outskirts, ready to move at the slightest signal.

"Orwell?" You ask aloud, uncertain as to whether or not she's listening until the ground warps at your feet, a willowy, humanoid shape rising up to take shape from the wheat-blonde hair that surrounds you.

"You ready?" She asks, and when you give her a curt nod, you can feel something shift imperceptibly in the atmosphere as the Skintalker broadcasts your location far and wide. Bait to a predator. Blood in the air.

Raw meat in open water...and you don't have to wait long before something catches your scent.

"Alpha's inbound, coming in hot at November's six-o'clock." Orwell declares, loud enough at your side to be heard over your Commling network. In the distance, you see the Metall Geschoss's turret swiftly pivot towards the impending threat. Silence. For a long, terrible moment, there's nothing but silence as somewhere in the distance, you know that Heather Neeson's drawing a bead on the thing that's coming to end you.

"Opening fire in three...two..." November breathes, her voice tense. "...one..."

A flicker of light, a devastating shell cast against an eternal sunset.

"Hit!" Gina declares incredulously. "She...Jesus fuck, she didn't even TRY to dodge-"

"Bogey's down, move out!" You demand, and as soon as the words are out of your mouth your world becomes a scarlet blur as Dorian ferrys you and yours into position, your vision reeling from the sheer speed. Focus sharpening, you find yourself on a hilltop staring down at the smoking crater resulting from Alpha's abrupt landing...and here, finally, you see her.

A tall figure rises from the bleeding wound in the plain's delicate scalp, the very ground concussed and weeping around the being. Two...no, maybe three meters in height as she rights herself, a hooded cloak of flesh dangles from a frame that's much too angular to be anything human. Light sears above her head, the violent crackling of the Generator Halo hissing at the very air around it as if in spite. Beneath Alpha's robes, you can sense them - the quartet of Forge Cores that sustain her, the four things you aim to remo-

You blink, now. At a sight that's only just now familiar in the most unfortunate of ways.

(Continued)
>>
>>4208944

Perhaps if you'd never seen what you've seen, traveled where you've traveled, then maybe you might not see anything amiss at all...but as riotous colors dance around Alpha's gaunt figure, leaking out from whatever West's made of those Cores, you see it all too clearly, now.

The sickening light of raw, uncontrolled creation taints the air around Alpha, a wound in space that reminds you of Everything...

...and Nothing.

Your team is front and center, the obvious target as you wait for Alpha to make her move...but she's just standing still, so very still that you think she's not moving at all until you catch the tilt of her head to one side. She's looking, slowly surveying the scene as she reaches up with exaggeratedly long fingers, digging into her chest not for a weapon but rather to extract your warm welcome, the red-hot shell trailing wisps of pure heat as she casually tosses it to the ground.

"Shu...Magpie's Relic is busted." November tersely informs you, concern evident in her clipped tone. "This thing hasn't given us the opening round."

"Correction; it hasn't triggered yet." Gina clarifies from far away, and across your bond you can feel her mind entwine with the peerless Relic as she runs some hasty diagnostics. "I don't get it...maybe we hit Alpha from far enough away for it to not register as combat? Fuck it, I'm not looking a gift horse in the mou-"

"Fix it."

Your focus snaps to the crater below to the source of the voice, finding that Alpha's aimed a single, long finger towards you. She hasn't moved, she hasn't taken a single step out of the boiling, stinking wound from where she landed...she's just standing, her words hanging in the roiling air.

"You did something to me." She intones flatly, her muffled voice barely audible above the gentle wind that rolls across the plains. There's no trace of anger, no vitriol...not even a mild annoyance as she repeats herself once more.

"Fix it." She echoes, no louder than the first time she uttered her simple demand.

"...What the fuck?" Rath growls across the coms. "Is this a fucking joke? Or...or some kind of trap?"

You have an opportunity. A golden chance that Magpie's given you, a pearlescent sphere that's nestled in November's hands. The odds are in your favor, and all you have to do is seize it.

"Fix it." Alpha says again, allowing her hand to drop to her side as she just stares at you from under her ragged shawl like a petulant child. "I have seen what you do. You help humans. You fix things. You fix people."

Your brow furrows.

"Fix me."

>>No words. No hesitation. No quarter given. [Initiate surprise round]

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, as previously stated your surprise round has not yet triggered. Voting shall remain open for the next three hours.)
>>
>>4208953
(Also, apologies for the delay; I was a little thrown off my usual writing groove since I got home so early, so thank you all for bearing with me.)
>>
>>4208948
>Blink
>then, stand tall, and be honest. even Alpha deserves that much.
>"All i did was help someone else cut you and your sisters from West Primes control. If you consider that breaking you, then you're entitled to your opinion."
>"What i must ask is... why would you want or think of me to fix that, over simply going to West Prime first? If you really want to be connected to her... such is your choice to strive for that, but Its not something we can stand by and let happen either."
>"We help others, yes, but if they prove worthy of being helped. you mindlessly slaughter anyone and everything for West Prime, why would we help you to go back to doing that?"
>"But... you have a chance here. to not be that. to not run back to her arms. Its all about if you will take it... if you even can...."

>Assuming she makes even a single twitch of aggression towards us, or it seems that way, have November and anyone else who can be ready to give her another full barrage, before Shu and her Team attack themselves in the chaos.
>If she doesn't... well, lets see what she has to say....

this... is not what i expected. certainly is a much different reason for her to be coming after us.
>>
Wow OP........Just..... Fuck you urghhh........ *insert grinding teeth noises*

Holy shit...... what even in the actual ninth circle of Hell beneath Satans freezing fucking ass just happened.....

This just seriously threw me off my groove right now.....


I will have trouble sleeping tonight.... I am so fucking tempted to talk to her and try and find out what the fuck she wants by wanting us to fix her.....

Could we tell her that we can not have her go back to West since she will just use her?

How would she react...... What could we tell her? We would have to do it with cold logic. But she has no real desires we can appeal to does she....... ?

All she knew was being used as a tool and now she seems... lost almost
>>
>>4208972
i mean... worse case scenario is her doing exactly what we expected anyways, which is come at us looking to turn us into paste.
>>
>>4208948
>Send a Comling to communicate from where you are.
>Ask for assurance that she won't attack anyone if we approach her.
>Question her for details. Does she want to feel emotions again? Regain some semblance of the person West used to make her? To have her body changed?
>Say that if she truly is offering to resolve this without violence or death, we'll try our best to help, and that our means and resources to find a solution are nothing to scoff at.
>>
>>4208974
i dont like this.
we shouldn't approach her just yet, by a long shot. she also told us what she wants most likely, which is she feels 'broken' after we cut off the network. we also cant really offer to end this peacefully no matter what, as if the implied want is, well, what she wants, we cant give that to her.
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>>4208948
The Muse left me.

>>4208972
>>4208971
To be honest. I expected this.
I figured that Alpha was tracking us down because she saw us help fix the West network like she did with Francine. She's knows we're a people person, and I had the hunch that she was looking for a way to be able to feel again.

I expected this to happen, but anons were very much fixated on seeing Alpha as some sort of machine to be killed and my voice opinions felt like it kept on getting shut down.
>>
>>4208981
i think you may need to re-red.
shes implying she saw us destroying the Proxy Network as us BREAKING her, not fixing anything. she is very much implying she wants us to reconnect her to West Prime, not fix her emotional nullification.
>>
>>4208985
ah. sorry.
>>
>>4208971
i think we theorized about her trying to understand Shu by following her path.

>>4208973
yeah and that has me worried........ well

>>4208981
To be honest she could have very well been a servitor stuck in its last program. Which was incidentally hunting Shu and her family down.

We knew nothing else about her but that she is a super dangerous enemy that was outfitted to kill us by one of our largest if not the largest enemy and then send on a direct path to murder our faces off.

Also its sad to hear that the Muse left you. it always is a tragic thing if that happens
>>
>>4208980
I'm not saying to approach her, hence why I said to send her a Comling to talk remotely, and asking her not to try anything if we do later.

>>4208971
Pointing out that she could just go back to West Prime for maintenance like she used to do if what she wants is to be back in the network, but its also why I wouldn't make assumptions that that's what she's asking for right now and moralize her about it. Who's to say that it never crossed her mind, but she rejected that option for one reason or another? I'm remembering how Yurei is said to have made her flip out by knocking loose one of her forge cores, and maybe her request has something to do with that.
>>
>>4208996
*"is good" before the "but". I don't know how I forgot to put that in.
>>
>>4208996
we can already communicate though, we dont need to send a commling. you asl asked for assurance she wouldn't attack if we approach, what the hell else does that imply but you want to approach her?

and shes pretty heavily implying that. we havent done anything else related to her... really at all. the only thing we have 'done' to her, much less she could consider breaking her, is shutting down the Proxy Network. i gave her a chance to correct it if she wants something else, but it makes much more sense to ask her the obvious over making wild assumptions. shes very clearly pointing towards something specific, involving us and her, and again, theres literally only one thing we have even done that could be in that slot.

also, Yurei knocked her core loose like, a long long time ago from now. thats probably had time to be fixed twenty times over at least, and assuredly was.
>>
>>4208972
(Oh, if I had a dime for every time one of my players has had this exact reaction.)

>>4208981
(Good eye on all that, and you were absolutely on the right track as far as Alpha trying to figure you out by re-tracing your steps.)

(Also, I'm sorry the Muse has taken her leave, at least for now. She always comes back, though sometimes it just takes a good meal and a nice night of sleep.)

>>4208971
(Ever since I rolled for how everyone reacted to what you did to the West network and given how bizarrely it affected Alpha, I've been looking forward to this.)
>>
>>4208948
Well since i should go to sleep now i will support >>4208971 and>>4208974

>>4209010
I am not sure if i should be impressed that you have gotten stuff like that more than once or embarrassed i didn't think up anything better.

Well Good Night OP

And

Good Night Anons
>>
>>4209009
She actually didn't accuse us of breaking her per say. "Fix it" after she said that we did something to her can point to her talking about her connection to Prime, but her following lines about Shu fixing people and helping humans then paint different motivations.
>>
>>4209020
what? thats exactly what she did.

she says Fix 'It', then implies we did something related to that 'it', then simply repeats her demand. she is very much being accusatory... as much as an emotionless robot can, obviously. her equating Shu fixing and helping people with us being even able, much less willing, to fix her is very much more implied that she just has a very basic understanding of what we even do. i mean, we've done a shitton of breaking too, for instance, so even on the most basic level she would have to be horribly simplifying things to bring this up.

it also ignores theres only one recent thing that really could be seen as anything of her breaking. sure, she may not actually like whatever was done to her, but thats very different than anything about her actually being broken, even from a 'perspective' angle.

regardless, she very much is putting some form of blame of Shu we need to tread through, and is talking about something specific too, not as broad as you are implying. her reasons for not going to West Prime is also suspect, even if she does want her freedom and this is something else.
>>
>>4208953

>"I'm not sure what to say, and I'm not an actual licensed doctor...but I'll try my best."

>"What seems to be the problem? Describe it for me."

>"What do you hope to achieve from your request to having me "fix you" ?"

>"When was the last time you've felt emotion?"

>"Would you like to feel emotion again?"

>"One of your forge cores is tied to suppressing your emotions. It may be a key factor in the underlying problems that have been plaguing you. Can you point out what it does?"

>"Breaking the network was the first step in a long list steps for better recovery."

>"The purpose of breaking the network was to allow you to give you a better sense of your own direction."

>"How long have you been taking orders?"

>"If you were to make a choice by yourself, what would your choice be?"

>"Have you ever made a choice by yourself?"

>"Describe yourself."

>Girls, I need you to stand by just in case. Think of her as Tin Man from the land of Oz who's asking what it means to have a heart.

>>4208971
>>4208972
>>4208981
I think we should try a different tact. We may not be a doctor, but different people behave accordingly in different ways. lets try adapting a psychologist's persona.
Another thing to take note is that Alpha didn't really specify and I think many of us are jumping the gun and making assumptions.

Lets try and take this step by step by asking Alpha questions step by step.
>>
>>4209031
yeah no, i dislike this. for one, feels way too much like 20 questions scenario, when even if she does comply, nows not really the time to dig that deep, over just getting direct answers from her. way too many questions and way too... iffy. we're standing before something that could twitch and kill us practically. its not our friend, not yet for sure, and we have no reason to suddenly treat it like one, over at best neutral tones. also feels a bit too jokey at the beginning for my tastes.

she also has shown to be simple and straight forward so far. better to play off that, than hope she will be ok with us going our usual crazy on her.

>>4209031
>>4209020
what about something like;

>Blink, but stand firm and keep everyone prepared for the worst.
>"What do you think i broke? what do you want me to fix?"
>"and Why me? why come to me, over West Prime?"

short, simple, no assumptions from my or your side on just what this actually is.
>>
>>4209031
>>4208948
Amending my vote:

>"Girls, I need you to stand by just in case. Think of her as Tin Man from the land of Oz who's asking what it means to have a heart, and she's asking me to be her doctor/theraptist."

>Stand tall, walk down towards Alpha.

>"I'm not sure what to say, and I'm not an actual licensed doctor...but I'll try my best."
>"What seems to be the problem? Describe it for me."
>"What do you hope to achieve from your request to having me "fix you" ?"
>"When was the last time you've felt emotion?"
>"Would you like to feel emotion again?"
>"What emotion would you like to experience?"
>"One of your forge cores is tied to suppressing your emotions. It may be a key factor in the underlying problems that have been plaguing you. Can you point out what it does?"
>"Breaking the network was the first step in a long list steps for better recovery."
>"The purpose of breaking the network was to allow you to give you a better sense of your own direction."
>"How long have you been taking orders?"
>"If you were to make a choice by yourself, what would your choice be?"
>"Have you ever made a choice by yourself?"
>"Describe yourself."
>"Do you dream? Describe them for me?"
>"Do you have preferences? likes? dislikes?"

>If West Alpha gets impatient: "Slow down. This is a long process. I may have a good track record of helping people, but that requires time, effort, a good diagnosis, and most importantly: trust."
>If West Alpha says anything about Shu's ability to feel emotion: "I have given up that power by my own choice. It was the right thing to do. It may be something you will be able to learn depending on the choices you make."
>>
>>4209041
>>4208948
yeah no, this is not better at all, and without a doubt in a heartbeat im vetoing going towards her for damned sure.
>>
>>4209040
Fair points. I'll amend my vote.


>>4209041
>>4208948

>Blink, but stand firm and keep everyone prepared for the worst.
>"What do you think i broke? what do you want me to fix?"
>"and Why me? why come to me, over West Prime?"
>"If you want me to fix you, I need to know everything about you to treat the source of the problem, not the symptoms."
>>
>>4208948
Blerg. Dozed off, just woke up now. So Alpha was trying to figure out what we did to her. I was kind of hoping for this outcome, I just didn't think it was practical to try to talk first. I figured that Alpha must have been trying to figure out who and what Shu is from how she was retracing our path. But I didn't think she'd be in touch with her motivations enough until after some Forge Cores got blasted out. Looks like they do a lot less to keep her suppressed than we thought, maybe.

Also, Alpha's so integrated into the weird physics of the Forge Cores that she's got un-light like the Nothing does. That's...that's great.

>>4209040
Yeah, that could work. A simple, to the point ask for clarification. Maybe with a nested chain pre-selected, since it's probably going to be about "hey, why am I no longer an automaton anymore, what's up with feelings things, this is weird I shouldn't be able to feel upset at being able to feel upset" like we think.
>>
>>4208971
>>4208948
amending vote to;

>Blink, but stand firm and keep everyone prepared for the worst.
>"What do you think i broke? what do you want me to fix?"
>"and Why me? why come to me, over West Prime?"

by itself. as said, lets not jump to conclusions or over-complicate this. yet at least. im sure even if she gives a simple response it'll give us plenty to expand upon... or we'll just fight her. we'll see.
>>
>>4208948
>>Write-In
>Relax your guard the tiniest bit, enough to still be ready for a fight but projecting less hostility. Wary cautiousness, a little bit of authority.
>"Okay."
>"What do you think needs to be fixed? I can't help you if you don't tell me what's wrong."
>"And why come to me? You've got West Prime, why aren't you seeking her help?"

Also, on a tangential note: How many railgun shells was Alpha hit with?
>>
>>4209112
>How many railgun shells was Alpha hit with?

The answer is unfortunately "No."
>>
>>4209112
(Six, all told. She speed-fired them thanks to the efforts of her team, with five of the shells being broken down by Alpha's form and the sixth being the one she failed to repurpose.)
>>
>>4209112
>>4209178
no no, she got hit with a least one, she pulled it out of her sternum like it was a nerf dart. which isnt very promising actually...
>>
>>4209189
(So Alpha *did* take damage from the hit, but if you're expecting her to react to even significant damage in any meaningful way, then you'll be disappointed.)
>>
>>4209189
>>4209197
...oof. im not liking that 'repurposed' bit there. but i didn't expect to really like anything about what she would pull against us, so.
>>
>>4209201
This feels like an encounter where we may have to talk the monster (West Alpha) to death in a deliberate way.
>>
>>4209204
depends on what exactly you mean there. we're not beating her out via knocking her down to death door, i can tell you that much at least.
>>
>>4209207
Basically our goal here is instead of trying to defeat the monster through sheer brute force and getting a total party wipe in the process, we convince West Alpha to uninstall that forge core matrix of her own volition.

And considering the recent news of West Alpha actually eating the bloody Gauss Cannon bits like they were constructs, tells me that anything that is a flesh construct or a relic will be ineffective.
>>
>>4209215
im very sure our chances of talking her down are nearly zip.

as for the shots, maybe. depends on what the Gauss Rounds actually count as. dont think we've heard of her just eating others relics, and i doubt they have never been brought to bear against her not to see that.
>>
>>4209224
>dont think we've heard of her just eating others relics,
You can't be too careful.
>>
>>4209197
Bhop. I need to ask you a question in regards to the passage of time in the world of Body Horror Quest.

From the start of Vein #19 with Shu's trip to the Disassociated ones, to Vein #27 at the point where Shu's family finally sleep after consuming Isabelle's remains, how much time has passed in Earth time? Which Veins count together as a single "day" in Earth time?

I need to know this because it will help streamline the timeline for "Carter and the Town of Cradleton".
>>
>>4209244
(I'm going to have to look back at my notes, so let me review it and I'll get back to you on that.)
>>
>>4209197
Less "expecting her to react", more "had any of the tracer rounds still in her". So the answer to that is a solid no. I didn't expect her to react to the damage meaningfully, but I was hoping at least to leave a tracer embedded.

Weird that Alpha could repurpose the rounds, though. That's a weird ability for her to have. Oh, shit, is it because November's bullets are made of Forge material? Are we shooting crafting ingredients at Alpha?
>>
>>4209245
>>4209253
you know, BHOP never answered me about Tinker earlier.
shame too, im wondering if we couldn't somehow turn that against her, if that is whats happening.
>>
>>4209253
I believe that is the right question to ask.

How else would a daughter with a forge core matrix be able to disassemble forgecreated sniper rounds?

If West prime managed to hack into the Forge Cores and create a Matrix out of them, what does that imply about West Alpha's capabilities with Relics and Forges?
>>
>>4209258
(Tinker prefers not to fight, but it's entirely possible to ask her for her services...if you want a twitchy, over-enthusiastic technician in the midst of all this, that is.)
>>
>>4209262
ah alright.
was more of wondering about the fact after she fixed up November, you never said she left but... she either did and no one cared, so she just really knows how to stay in the background.

but i mean, regardless, if we could 'corrupt' Novembers ammunition or something, would be a neat way to impede West Alpha a bit at least. not sure we can, but of course Tinker would be the one to know.
>>
>>4209267
That brings up an interesting question. How do we "corrupt" ammunition?
>>
>>4209271
Make it into bombs, I guess. Something that is stable so long as you leave it as a solid, but once you try to dismantle it it detonates internally. I don't know how we'd do that with the tools on hand, though.
>>
>>4209271
>>4209277
i was more thinking messing around with whatever it is Forges are actually using, a more literal corruption of what they are.

but again, im unsure of the extent or how, hence saying Tinker would be the one to answer that question.
>>
>>4209277
Can't Rath put sticky bombs on November's Tank shells?
>>
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>>4208948

"What do you think I broke?" You ask as you straighten up, standing firm in the face of West's inscrutable creation. "What do you want me to fix?"

"You did something to me. Now I can't talk to Prime. Prime can't talk to me. I don't know what you did. But I know that if I can't talk to Prime then you'd be the one behind it. Prime told me that you were a bug in the system. Messing everything up for everyone but Mara." She explains calmly, either ignorant or indifferent to the dozen-odd Daughters that're ready to pounce at a moment's notice. You almost take a hesitant step forward before an arm's thrust out in front of you, the subtle shake of B'ni's head giving you pause as her unblinking emerald gaze locks onto the target below. "I want to talk to Prime. I want you to fix me."

{Wait...she's just assuming at this point, so did she not hear Francine and Sigma's speech?} Gina asks across your bond. {Does she not have access to the Skinternet?}

"So why me?" You continue. "Why come to me, over West Prime?"

"I don't know where Prime is."

You blink.

"...But you return to her after your assignments, right?"

"Yes." Alpha nods. "After my assignment is done, then she tells me where home is. I forget, and then she reminds me."

...Christ.

"What makes you think I can fix something like something like that, exactly?" You press, eyes narrowed as Isabelle subtly interposes herself between you and Alpha before she freezes when Alpha's arm swings up, her finger now leveled at the shorter girl.

"You broke her." Alpha says quietly. "At Almath. But she is here, now. You fixed her. You know how to break. You know how to fix. You are good at both. This is what you do."

"I..." You say, drawing in a breath as B'ni's bangs hide her eyes from yours. "I didn't re-"

"Alpha?" Sia suddenly interrupts, head cocked to one side. "You said that West...West Prime, that she'd tell you where home base is when you finished an assigment, right?"

Alpha merely nods once more, her halo sizzling above her hood.

"So...what's your current assignment?"

"Unknown."

"What?" You breathe.

"Current assignment; unknown." She clarifies in her droll, monotone voice. "West Prime location; unknown. I knew both, and then something happened. Something you did. I want you to fix what you did."

{...Holy shit} Gina mutters in your mind, her thoughts dancing around your own before she speaks again. {Just relayed that to Francine, and she's...jeez, she thinks that when we severed the network then we might've caused some sort of critical error with Alpha. I mean, most of the Proxies were meant to work independently for stretches of time, but it's sounding more and more like Alpha was just...strung along, almost. Without that string, that link to Prime - she's got fucking *nothing*}

(Continued)
>>
>>4209300

"If you want me to fix you, I need to know everything about you to treat the source of the problem, not the symptoms." You say, only to have Alpha stiffen at your request and prompting Quinn's alabaster muscles to tense beside you.

"I cannot comply. Prime's research is not to be disclosed by any Proxy without her express permission. Zero exceptions."

"Okay, that's...alright." You say, not wishing to press her any further, at least not in an overly direct fashion. "So when this happened and you couldn't hear Prime anymore, did you hear anything else? Anything about any other Proxies over the Skinternet?"

"My only link is...was...to Prime." Alpha corrects herself. "I am unable to connect to the Skinternet. My tether was lost. There is only silence, now."

Her halo flares, white flame searing the air around Alpha's head.

"Fix me." She flatly demands once more. "Undo what you did, or take me to Prime. Do one of these things, and I will go home."

No mission, no home...she's lost, seeking a master that may have already left for the Cord. The first and last time you encountered West - the real West - she said she'd see you at the Cord, so for all you know sending Alpha home is a fool's errand...but then again, with no connection to the Skinternet and no way for Prime to reach out, that may not be a bad thing at all.

Or it could shorten the timer on a ticking time bomb.

Regardless, said bomb is standing expectantly before you and demanding repairs as you try and work out how to deal with this bizarre situation. Deal with her now, and suffer the consequences? Put her off, and try to stall until you can better prepare with what you've just learned? Or maybe, just maybe you could use this as a chance to do something clever...but with lives at stake, is now really the time?

Even as the possibilities swirl in your mind's eye, you have to admit a terrible irony, in all this - the flesh-and-blood Magpie refused to hear you out, while not even a day later you're having a relatively ameniable conversation with a product of Doctor West's twisted mind.

>>"I can fix you, Alpha...but it'll take some time. Can you give me some time to figure this out, while you wait somewhere that people aren't going to bother you?"

>>"Alpha, I can help you, if you'll let me. I know you said that you can't let anyone else know what Prime's worked on, but in order to help you then I need to have my friends figure out how you work. Can we do that?"

>>"If I worked to figure out where Prime's home base is, then could I trust you to wait while I tracked it down?"

>>"We shot you down earlier...why didn't you fight back? You did research on me and I did some on you, so why'd you pull your punches against us?"

>>This thing that she's asking you to do...you can't do it. You need to bring her down here and now, or else she'll hang over your head until you deal with her or she deals with you. There is no third option in this.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, I shall be pausing here for the evening. Voting shall remain open for the next fourteen hours, with posting to resume at approximately 12:00PM, Eastern time, though I'll endeavor to have it done before then. Thank you all for your patience, participation, and enthusiasm as always, and I hope that you have a restful evening.)
>>
>>4209311
whelp, as i said, she was talking about the lack of a connection. we 'broke' her, but only because she was designed to be wholly lost without the network, unlike the others... damn is West Prime cruel. i mean, i get it, cant give your doomsday weapon even an ounce of freedom or risk her turning on you, but still.

>>4209318
have a good afternoon BHOP. this certainly is not the direction i expected you to take with this, you certainly bamboozled me earlier by making it sound like a fight was inevitable. may still be, but this is certainly more of a chance to at least look at the situation differently first than imagined.
>>
>>4209318
Have a nice evening, BHOP. Thanks for running.
>>
>>4209331
>>4209318
God dammit Bhop. Now I have this adorable image of West Alpha wandering around like a lost nuclear Warforged puppy who wants to go home back to her master.
>>
>>4209331
(Make no mistake, this can absolutely go south if you don't play your cards right, but while Magpie's whole thing was complex, there's a certain childish simplicity in Alpha's goals.)

>>4209342
(You do as well, and it's truly my pleasure. Thank you for participating!)

>>4209344
(Ha, that's pretty close to reality, actually.)
>>
>>4209353
>Magpie's whole thing was complex
Goddammit Magpie. Please. Why did you have to pull something so abhorrent like becoming a terrorist assassin who hunts down settlements with the expectation of us following your damn breadcrumbs so you can pull an M. Night Shyamalan Bamboozle?

Ugh...I want to like you, but your death still haunts me.
>>
>>4209311
>dont lie, be honest.
>"Alpha... for better or worse... thats not gonna happen. After we broke the Network, West Prime talked to us. shes gone. she packed up and left for the Cord. even if we found her old base, shes not there anymore."
>"As for the Network... the simple fact is, if you want our help with that, then we would need to know how you work. whether you tell us, or we found it in West Primes home, either way, shes not here to fix it herself anymore."
>"But.... you have to understand. even if we could... we couldn't reconnect you. West twisted the truth about me to you, but even if you dont believe me, you can understand one thing im sure. West is a threat to me and mine. if you go back to taking her orders, you too, will be a threat, and to others aswell."
>"You have a choice here though. we CAN help you, but not exactly how you might of thought, and either way, it wouldn't be quick, it wouldn't be easy, and it cannot happen unless you can give me assurances you will not be a threat to me or my friends and family. and i dont mean simply with your words and promises."
>"We also could connect you to the Skinternet. some of the other Proxies are trying to find their own way, their own route forward without West Prime. but you would have to give us the same assurances you wont be a threat, but after that... it would be between you and them."
>"You have something here Alpha. a choice, your own. not mine, not West Primes. something you have never had before. freedom. I know its odd, having something like that, that you never had before. but its yours, and its your decision to make."
>"We dont have to come to blows here. im sure you can see the wastefulness of it, even if you won. but We cant have you wandering around causing trouble and killing people, and im sure even you would prefer the efficiency of not constantly being attacked too."
>"But it all depends on what you choose here, yourself."
>>
>>4209353
yeah, this is certainly a razors edge. that being said, i dont feel like stringing her along or lying to her will really be the way to go. might save us... a damn lot of trouble, but still. and im actually not surprised by Alphas simplicity. mostly im still just surprised she tried at all. ok, sure, West Prime never let you remember home or anything. and you dont remember exactly that you were hunting us, only we're not allies.

still though, feels like hunting down a Proxy would be her first choice, not us. ah well, guess the issue might be she doesn't have info saying the proxies help people, so she didn't think about it.
>>
>>4209300
>Prime told me that you were a bug in the system. Messing everything up for everyone but Mara.
So if I'm reading this right, Alpha thinks she's helping people? Prime wouldn't have phrased it like this if Alpha didn't care about people other than Prime. She would have just told Alpha that we're screwing things up for her. If Prime is motivating Alpha by saying that we're messing things up for everyone, then that means that Alpha wants to cause a net good for the world, not just Prime. She's just been lied to this whole time, and has enough safety locks on her that I don't know if it's possible to convince her of the truth. Damn, that's kind of sad. Oh god, I'm starting to feel bad for Alpha.
>>
>>4209372
This whole encounter is basically Dark Souls boss except you don't have to kill the boss but you will still be hit by the feels regardless.
>>
>>4209377
(A variation of that feel is what I try to go for regarding most boss fights/encounters.)
>>
>>4209427
Did you find out the answer to the question I asked on >>4209244 ?

I'm still waiting on that answer.

Also found a good OST for writing for the mood.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug7GuGvd8Kc
>>
>>4209436
(Looking at everything, I'd say that a little shy of two days elapsed in that time frame, with Veins 17 to 21 being a single 24-hour time span. I leave timing a little rough on account of the Crucible's nature, though. Having been in a rapid series of crisis situations before, I can certainly attest to how time loses all meaning when panic and chaos sets in...though mine involved a little less body horror.)

(Also, that music is extremely pleasant. Adding it to my writing tunes playlist.)
>>
>>4209458
What about 21-27? I need the timing on that as well if I am to ensure that the story pace doesn't get arbitrarily compressed by a miscount. Much of the time in the second half of the story depends on the time period between vein 21-27.
>>
>>4209461
(Sorry, in >>4209458 I was implying that Veins 21 to 27 comprised a single day as well. Apologies for not being clearer.)
>>
>>4209468
Thank you for answering those question. This significantly changes the timeline that I have to work with by several magnitudes in regards to the epilogue.

Also, this also brings up another question that I had in mind: What's the average population size for a small settlement in the Crucible world? A medium settlement? A large settlement?
>>
Blerg. I'm having writer's block on what I want to say to Alpha. I keep going over it and restarting. Is it worth it to try to lead Alpha to the thought that Prime abandoned her, or is that too much of a risk that Alpha will react poorly? Because I think that getting Alpha to realize that the paradox that prevents her from letting anyone fix her is likely intentional could do a lot to break her out of this dangerous course. But if we screw it up, she might just go rage on us.
>>
>>4209480
(Small settlements usually comprise anywhere between a one to two dozen people, with medium ones rounding out around twenty-five to fifty. Anything over that is considered a large settlement. To compare, the Monastery and Laoc are considered large, while the off-shoot of the Altar is a medium-sized one. There were two undiscovered groups in Carroll's Forest and the Swamp that would be small settlements.)
>>
>>4209488
>>4209480
(Now, that being said; much larger groups are entirely possible, and have become much more common as the Crucible's dragged on. For example of much, much larger groups, the major settlement in Germany is an excellent example, as is one located on Kyushu.)
>>
>>4209484
I think the main thing that we need to teach Alpha with this is that due to the circumstances, Alpha is the one that calls the shots. She can either break her directive given to her by Prime which would help with one of Shu's proposed solutions (basically go full system diagnostics so Alpha can make a skinternet phonecall to West Prime), or go with one of the lesser options (either A: make a Relic analog Computer that allows West Alpha to connect with the skinternet, or B: Hire Shu to track West Prime down).

Alpha's a simpleton when it comes to problems and solutions. So I think the best way to approach with our answer is to be honest, simple and direct.
>>
>>4209491
>>4209488
Interesting.

I may have over-estimated my figures as to what constitutes as an appropriate number for Cradleton's general populace as well as the Cult's total membership count.
>>
>>4209496
Okay, yeah, that might work, then. Emphasize the idea that she's stuck in a paradox, that she needs to go outside her usual operational parameters to resolve it. Okay, gonna try again. After I get some coffee or something, I'm starting to get drowsy.
>>
>>4209484
>>4209496
Not much i can think to say as a response honestly, and considering ive already put my own vote out.

Though yes, i agree we at least shouldn't lie, omit, or twist the truth really for... Alot of reasons.
>>
God damn it, I've still got nothing. I'm just going to go to bed, take another stab at it in the morning. In the meantime, I'll vote in support of the existing write-in, it's not bad.

>>4209311
Supporting >>4209367
>>
>>4209311
>dont lie, be honest.
>"Alpha... for better or worse... thats not gonna happen. After we broke the Network, West Prime talked to us. shes gone. she packed up and left for the Cord. even if we found her old base, shes most assuredly not there anymore."
>"As for the Network... the simple fact is, if you want our help with that, then we would need to know how you work. whether you tell us, or we found it in West Primes home, either way, shes not here to fix it herself anymore."
>"But.... you have to understand. even if we could... we couldn't reconnect you. West twisted the truth about me to you, but even if you dont believe me, you can understand one thing im sure. West is a threat to me and mine. if you go back to taking her orders, you too, will be a threat, and to others aswell."
>"You have a choice here though. we CAN help you, but not exactly how you might of thought, and either way, it wouldn't be quick, it wouldn't be easy, and it cannot happen unless you can give me assurances you will not be a threat to me or my friends and family. and i dont mean simply with your words and promises."
edit:
>"Because Prime could just make you forget your promises again if you reunite with her. No matter what you might wish to do"

>"We also could connect you to the Skinternet. some of the other Proxies are trying to find their own way, their own route forward without West Prime. but you would have to give us the same assurances you wont be a threat, but after that... it would be between you and them."
>"You have something here Alpha. a choice, your own. not mine, not West Primes. something you probably have never had before. freedom. I know its odd, having something like that, that you never had before. but its yours, and its your decision to make."
>"We dont have to come to blows here. im sure you can see the wastefulness of it, even if you won. but We cant have you wandering around causing trouble and killing people, and im sure even you would prefer the efficiency of not constantly being attacked too."
>"But it all depends on what you choose here, yourself."

Other than that little edit i support the sentiment of the vote put forward by>>4209367
>>
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>>4209311

"Alpha, for better or worse…that’s not going to happen. After we broke the Network, West Prime talked to us - she’s gone. She packed up and left for the Cord. Even if we found her old base, she’s not there anymore."

The figure below you falters, her shrouded head starting to twitch unnervingly.

“…No. No, incorrect.” She says, long-fingered hands clenching and unclenching at her side. “You can’t be…but you’re not lying. The field says you’re not lying, but you must have misunderstood Prime. This information cannot be correct.”

"As for the Network - the simple fact is, if you want our help with that, then we would need to know how you work.” You continue, the three girls at your side on a razor’s edge as Alpha struggles with the news. “Whether you tell us or we found it in West Primes home…well, either way she’s not here to fix it herself anymore."

“…If you locate Prime’s main laboratory, then I will have not broken my promise-protocol.” Alpha replies. “You can understand my systems. You can fix me.”

"But...you have to understand.” You say as gingerly as you can. “Even if we could, then we couldn't reconnect you to Prime. West is a threat to me and mine. If you go back to taking her orders then you’ll be a threat again. Not just to us but to others as well."

“Irrelevant. Placing myself back under Prime’s control is priority.” She intones. “Fix me. Or I will find someone who can.”

"Alpha? You have a choice here. We CAN help you, but not exactly how you might have thought.” You stress. “Either way - it wouldn't be quick, it wouldn't be easy, and it won’t unless you can give me assurances you will not be a threat to me or to my friends and family. And I don’t mean simply with your words and promises."

Her hands flex again, her silent consideration its own reply.

"You have something here, Alpha. A choice, your own. Not mine, not West Prime’s. Something you’ve never had before…freedom. I know it’s odd, having something like that, something you’ve never had before. But it’s yours, and it’s your decision to make."

“Incorrect.” Alpha calmly counters. “I do not want this choice. I want to be fixed. Prime makes choices. I execute her choices. This is the way of things. Fix me, or I will find one who can.”

"We don’t have to come to blows here. I’m sure you can see the wastefulness of it, even if you won.”

“I would win.” Alpha coldly interrupts, head cocked to once side as B’ni grits her teeth beside you. “I have been tested. I have been built to achieve victory.”

“…But we can’t have you wandering around causing trouble and killing people, and I’m sure even you would prefer the efficiency of not constantly being attacked too."

“…This is true.” She replies after a moment of thought. “Victory pleases Prime. I…it is a means to an end.”

(Continued)
>>
>>4210504

“Tracking me down? Figuring out what I do, and how I treat people? You said you don’t want a choice, but what you’ve done to get here has been under your own power. That’s the result of your decisions, Alpha…no one else’s.” You explain, taking a small step forward as you keep your voice level. “We can help you, if you’ll let us. We can help you be something more than you are, if you want to be. But it all depends on what you choose here, yourself, Alpha. You, and no one else.”

“…If you will not fix me then I will find Prime’s laboratory myself.” Alpha declares quietly, her hands going limp at her sides. “I will find how I was made. Then I will find someone who is willing to fix me. If you are not going to help me then please do not hinder my pursuit of this goal. If you do, then I will have no choice but to defend myself. But…I will not be a threat to you, if you do not make yourself one to me.”

{Shu, Francine just said that no-one’s got the slightest idea where Prime’s lab is. There’s theories on the Skinternet, but none of them have yielded any results} Gina quickly informs you. {This fool’s errand might be just the break we need. If Alpha can’t find it, then at least she’s out of our hair for the time being, ‘cause…the light around her, that’s the same thing you saw when you talked with that thing in the Forge Core, right? I’m gonna be honest, I don’t like the look of that, Shu. Between that and how she practically brushed off November’s barrage like she did, then we may be out of our fucking depth here}

Goddammit.

Alpha doesn’t want a choice. She just wants someone else to call the shots. Just like Sigma, really…the burden of choice she accused you of thrusting upon her now weighs on this one’s shoulders as well. Alpha can’t even conceive of an existence that isn’t under another’s control...but even still, the way she moves, the way she’s using her hands coupled with the way she reacted to the revelation that Prime may have left without her?

Something’s changing in her. She’s not an emotionless terminator – she’s making calls, she’s feeling things that she doesn’t know how to handle. To be honest, you’re not sure if you know how to handle them, either…but regardless of what choices she’ll make, you have one shot to call right here.

Right now.

>>”…Okay. If that’s what you want, then I won’t stop you. If I have your word that you won’t harm us, then you have mine that we won’t harm you. One of us breaks that promise? Then we come to blows. Understood?”

>>”You say you don’t want a choice, Alpha? Fine. Follow me, and I’ll help you find West’s lab. But understand that doing that is going to take some time. You’ll have to be patient, if you want to find her again. Can you do that for me?”

>>…Alpha’s left you with no other choice. [Initiate free opening round of combat]

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open for the next three hours.)
>>
>>4210508
>"If all you want to do is follow orders, does it really have to be from Prime? What if she could be replaced by someone or something else? Would that work."

This definitely won't win at all and I'll end up changing my vote, but I'll just throw that at the wall anyway to see if it sticks for now.
>>
>>4210508
Goddammit, Alpha really is acting like a lost puppy. No scratch that.

She's acting like a child who's only known her mother and not that of her siblings. And she's now in the midst of grieving and trying to cope with the loss of her mother's presence when said Mother has already abandoned her to die by heading for the Cord. She's like a child who's so used to having hand being held and accustomed to hand-holding that she's frightened by the fact that she's having to call the shots.

Ultimately, this will be West Alpha's Journey to make as she tries to uncover more of herself. But I think we could hold her hand and give her a bit of a reassurance, the big risk however is that Alpha will basically latch onto us while we try to help her find Prime's home.
>>
>>4210504
>“…This is true.” She replies after a moment of thought. “Victory pleases Prime. I…it is a means to an end.”

There. Right there. The moment Alpha addressed herself as herself instead of being simply a machine.
that's what I want to see. The signs of change.
>>
>>4210508
>"If that is what you want i cant stop you. But please consider that her lab is very well concealed and hidden. You on your own may never find it."
>"You could be searching for years.... and seeing how fast things are moving now... I don't think we.... You or us has that time."
>"The crucible will end soon. Prime will clash with Mara if she is still standing her vigil. I am sure that she thinks she can take Mara. You would have been a nice tool to further her own strength and get her through he cord easier. But in the end she would have abandoned you to die as she ascends the throne and condemned every being on this world to death, including you."

>"You said you don't want a choice. But by saying that you are making a choice already. Trying to be what you perceive as whole again was the first choice you ever made."
>Offer her a hand
>"I can see why it seems desirable to be under someone else's command. To receive their guidance and have to do nothing but follow their orders."
>"Tell me how often has Prime complimented you on a job well done? How many times has she asked you for your opinion on a matter?"
>"I can help you find Primes Lab. But in return i want you to look into yourself and find yourself. because you are not a tool. You are a person. And as such i ask that you be patient until we can fidn the lab and try and find what has you so troubled. "

well
A first draft for now.

I would like feedback if people can be bothered
>>
>>4210508
>"...and what about others? will you leave them alone, or will you be tearing apart settlements and knock people aside just because they happen to be near you, or misinterpreted what you were there for?"
>"You do realize why people attack you, no? fear. Fear of West Prime, and thus Fear of you as her tool."
>"I get it. to you, its irrelevant, no? all you care about is taking orders from West Prime. but something you have to understand is, when people attack you? when they fear your very presence? its not self defense you're enacting, because so long as you work towards West Primes goals, you're a threat to everyone on this planet."
>"If you could not just promise not to be a threat, not to needless tear down settlements or cut others down in your search, aswell as give up something to even the playing field... then i could not only let you go, but put it on my own word to tell folks to leave you alone and give you the benefit of the doubt... so long as you do the same. someone not wishing to help you does not give you the right to tear them o their homes apart, so long as they otherwise do not threaten you."
>"...if not though... then whether you care or not, West Prime is a killer, a monster... and so long as you will do anything in your power to be a part of that... so are you, and thats not something we can let roam free."
>"West Alpha would destroy the world to get what she wants. Will you do the same?"

>>4210531
its... not the worst question or idea, but yeah not sure it'll work. she seems pretty tightly focused on it being West Prime. i mean, again, why not go to the Proxies for help or guidance? sure, she may not of known exactly where they were, but she only had even an inkling of an idea on us. i get shes simple, but i dont think its unsimple logic to think a proxy would be more likely to help than us.
>>
>>4210545
im really not liking this. i dont want to commit to helping her with this goal, simply on the implications of helping her get closer to West Prime. she also might expect us to put all or way more effort towards finding it than we can afford, and might very well not appreciate it if it seems like we're not doing enough towards finding it. and lordy knows we have more and plenty else we can and need to do besides find that.

on top of that, the top part does feel like its playing to emotion a bit much. sure, Alpha is showing some inklings of it, but i dont think bashing her boss and their connection is gonna help. shes still too ingrained in wanting to be with Prime right now i think for us saying she was abandoned fully to not go negatively. or at least, that blatantly. maybe if it was more implied and drawn out, than outright stating it.
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>>4210504
>The field says you’re not lying, but you must have misunderstood Prime
I'm sorry, the field? Like an empathic field? West Gamma did get a look at one of our swarmlings, way back when at the start of the quest. Did she upgrade some of her Proxies with a copy of our empathic field? Huh. If that's the case it makes our decision to suppress it for the sake of not smothering others a really interesting parallel. Shu received this power against her will and removed it because she had respect for the people around her. West gave it to herself intentionally because she wanted better control over others.
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>>4210561
thank you for your feedback i will see what i can change. Your own write in is nice and i will see if i can write somethign better or just support yours
>>
>>4210565
...i just assumed she had made a relic to read the truth honestly. seems like the type of thing she would keep on herself if she hoped to have an actual conversation with us, someone she knows she is supposed to see as an enemy, or at least not an ally.

>>4210571
feel free to use it or suggest changes yourself.
>>
>>4210565
>>4210575
actually, you would think Alpha would be the one she didn't give it too. especially one that seems to only be the base level. why would Alpha need to read the truth? if anything, that could complicate her missions if a target starts spouting things about Prime or her goals that she reds as truthful but conflicts with what Prime told her.
>>
>>4210575
>>4210580
I think you're on to something, here. You're right, it doesn't make sense for Prime to give Alpha such an ability. Herself, sure, but not Alpha. So why does Alpha have it? Even if it's a Relic she crafted, she'd still need to get blueprints for it, still need to have data on this idea of the empathic field. Who gave it to her? I'm probably just going further afield into wild speculation, but what if this is the Nothing's doing? Alpha is made of Forges and shining with un-light, if using a Sparagmos Engine is enough of an excuse for the Nothing to say that we contacted it I think that Alpha should count too. Maybe it quietly slipped some information into her databanks.
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>>4210580
After some thinking i think something more like this could prove more beneficial

The second part of yours i think is truly great so i made onyl one small change to this since i think she needs to understand that she will also be affected if Prime wins. and not in a god way

>"And what will you do until you find the Lab? Will you rip and tear your way through the fleshscape?Settlements, groups and everyone else that is not willing to lend you a hand or reacts negatively to you coming close to them? Because they dont know what you are there for."
>"Without people helping you, you could be searching for years. People will not want to work together with you becasue they fear Priem and her goals. And you by the virtue of being her proxy and being seen as her tool, to enforce what she wants, they will be afraid of you"
>"I get it you dont care about that. To you its not even an annoyance. It just reduces your efficiency. But you have to understand that people fear and hate you. And while you are out there working towards Primes goals by reuniting with her again they will not stop coming. Because you and by proxy Prime succeeding is a direct threat to their continued existence."

>>"If you could not just promise not to be a threat, not to needless tear down settlements or cut others down in your search, aswell as give up something to even the playing field... then i could not only let you go, but put it on my own word to tell folks to leave you alone and give you the benefit of the doubt... so long as you do the same. someone not wishing to help you does not give you the right to tear them o their homes apart, so long as they otherwise do not threaten you."
>>"...if not though... then whether you care or not, West Prime is a killer, a monster... and so long as you will do anything in your power to be a part of that... so are you, and thats not something we can let roam free."
>>"West Alpha would destroy the world and everything in it to get what she wants." Let there be a pregnant pause "Will you do the same?"

>>4210600
Or it put the idea into her mind that she needs it to truly make sure we are not lying to her to help her only to betray her later.....
I could see nothing removing the data from our max core level and giving it to her
>>
>>4210580
>>4210600
(I will say that the field is something that Alpha was never meant to have access to. Hold onto, yes...but definitely not use.)
>>
>>4210600
possibly.
though, really depends on exactly how she gets her blueprints in the first place. does West Prime give them to her, or are they all her own? or is it something akin to like you said, albeit more like due to her clear deeper connection to the Forge Energy Dimension, maybe any blueprint she needs she just 'randomly' pulls from there?

like, she thinks 'i need to stop this Flesh Artist slow stack' so a random blueprint from all in existence is thrown at her that can do that.

>>4210612
hrm, interesting. shame we dont know that IC, but still neat to know.
>>
>>4210612
Uh... Interesting...

So the cut off might have scrambled more than her connection and memory...
>>
>>4210508
This is just a draft response. I know this is a stupid idea on making a devil's deal with a monster, but it's something to consider. Alpha wants to find Prime's house.

>”…Okay. If that’s what you want, then I won’t stop you. If I have your word that you won’t harm us, then you have mine that we won’t harm you. One of us breaks that promise? Then we come to blows. Understood?”
>"But in order to ensure that your promise will be held and kept, and to ensure that I can tell the others and ensure that they will leave you alone, I need something from you as proof of this promise."
>Spawn a fuzzbuzz and hold it out.
>"If you give me the forge matrix, I will give you this fuzzbuzz and tell the world to leave you alone so you can search for Prime's home without fear of being attacked. If you are approached by anyone, show them Fuzzbuzz and tell them you are under my protection."
>"If you feel that I am lying, then scan me to see for yourself."

>If Alpha takes the deal:
>"Alpha...I would like to tell you that you're not alone in this. Your proxy siblings, some of them may also be trying to find their way to Prime's home."
>"I could also help you, but I have other priorities to tend to, as to you. If I have time, I could help when I can."
>"Know that if you're feeling tired and wary of your search, you can find us to talk to de-stress and recover your mental health."
>"I hope you're able to reach your goal Alpha. No matter how long it takes. I hope that what you find in the end will be worth it to you."
>"And...I hope that along the way, you might be able to learn more about yourself as you continue your journey."
>"Good luck, Alpha."


>>4210565
You know. The more I think back on it, the more I can't help but feel that the first Dr. West that we saw in-quest was actually West Prime herself.
>>
>>4210612
...hmm. Okay, another line of thought that might be just a wild tangent, but: Do we know what West Tau was studying?
>>
>>4210626
(I don't believe that you've run across that, no.)
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>>4210634
Something to ask Sigma some time, then, she seems to have liked Tau.
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>>4210624
asking directly for the Forge Matrix might be a bit too blunt. Directly being the key word there.
it also feels like its not reigning in enough the rules for her interacting with others. she only committed to not being a threat to us afterall, not others.

i also always prefer to see someones actual response to something, than assuming even if she does agree how she does it will make what you wrote applicable.

>>4210609
i suppose this is alright. really just seems like a re-wording of my first part though, so ill leave it up to BHOP then to decide how and which way to use or combine them.
>>
>>4210508
Ammendign my vote from >>4210545
to >>4210609

>>4210641
Personally i think its a bit more than that but everyone can have their own opinions.

>>4210624
its a bit to direct i think. And not at all a truly worthy exchange. Alpha is ridiculously strong and after a while people will try and pretend to cooperate with her and then just flee form her. She will get that efficiency back over time as she gains an even worse reputation.
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>>4210636
We can always join the Proxy discord channel and ask the collective nicely.

>FuzzBuzz has joined the chat
>"Hello, this is Shu. how's it going in the Greek Alphabet Forum?"
>*several proxies are typing...*

>>4210634
I have found the embodiment of "BLAME!: the videogame" called NaissanceE

Here's a playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcQYLbfZXZs&list=PLzDeS-SWRIMO0sV4YKia7LAKsqfJfceSY

And a youtuber's very apt discription of the game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zkv6rVcKKg8

>>4210649
>>4210641
Noted. I know the proposal exchange is too out of proportion but I wrote that as a filler to put down the meat of the message that I felt that I NEED to have Shu convey to Alpha, which is the farewell blessing of good luck to Alpha in the hopes that she discovers what sort of person she is underneath as she goes on her fool's errand.
>>
>>4210660
thats assuming we can actually afford to let her go here, which would greatly depend on how Alpha is willing to go about this.

>We can always join the Proxy discord channel and ask the collective nicely.
probably a bad idea. maybe if we run into one or something... but at least for now, feel like letting them have their private little corner of the Skinternet is a good idea.
>>
>>4210660
>>4210667
We could ask Francine. I think she is active on there to help them out if they have any problems coming up.

WE could ask her if she can fidn that out for us.....

though it is tempting to finally start seeing what the skinternet would feel like for Shu.
>>
>>4210649
>its a bit to direct i think. And not at all a truly worthy exchange. Alpha is ridiculously strong and after a while people will try and pretend to cooperate with her and then just flee form her. She will get that efficiency back over time as she gains an even worse reputation.
The thing is, I don't think Alpha wants a bad reputation. Bad reputations are inefficient. I'm not sure that Alpha exactly has a sense of compassion, but she does seem to want minimal disruption and chaos. Prime wouldn't have told Alpha that we're a meddler messing things up for everyone if Alpha didn't care about that sort of thing. I think appealing to her desire for orderliness is a good way to go, here. You don't want any trouble, right Alpha?
>>
>>4210671
i know and if she gains a bad enough reputation she will have that minimal disruption by having everyone run away form her.

But i can absolutely see your point. Thing is she has no social skill nor experience to even start to overcome the reputation she already has.
>>
>>4210670
Francine specifically said she was avoiding going on it to not make it look like she was trying to influence them, or cause backlash.

>>4210671
i agree appealing to her orderliness is good but as i said and i think that Anon meant too, directly asking for the Core Matrix might be too heavy too quick.
>>
>>4210671
>>4210678
>>4210660
also, she will see it as us trying to tamper with West Primes technology, even if she otherwise doesn't care about its personal use on herself. hence me more of trying to coax her into doing something, even that, on her own merit, over causing more backlash over her high alertness at 'protecting' Primes tech.
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>>4210609
>"West Alpha would destroy the world and everything in it to get what she wants." Let there be a pregnant pause "Will you do the same?"
Don't you mean "West Prime"?
Also, I think West Alpha would not care about the state of the world, as her priority would be more focused on please west Prime.

What we're trying to achieve with this conversation I believe is to steer the direction of the conversation where both of us can walk way alive while achieving progress towards our separate goals.

Our goal is:
> to neutralize Alpha through words and ensure that she doesn't cause anymore trouble.
>Set Alpha down a path that will help her grow as a person while instilling the idea of freedom and choice that Alpha has taken/already taking.

Alpha's goal is:
>"Ask Shu to devote resources in helping Alpha fine West Prime's base"
>"Find West Prime's base."
>"Finish task as efficiently as possible, the less detours (aka fighting) the better.
>>
>>4210678
Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you, just...I don't know, thinking out loud while I think up my own write-in. I've been having serious trouble with writer's block when it comes to Alpha, I know some ideas I want to get out there but the whole thing is so high-tension that I'm constantly second-guessing everything. There's a part of me that is almost welcoming the idea of this ending in a fight just because an Alpha that is already fighting us is an Alpha I don't have to worry about setting off.

>>4210679
>>4210680
Asking for her Forge Matrix is too much, I agree. I'm not sure if Alpha can even remove it if she wanted to. There should be some sort of assurance of safety that she can give, though. Maybe we can talk her into following on agreed-on paths, avoiding deviating from them. Publicize her routes, make it so that anyone who encounters her is there by choice and looking for a fight rather than just trying to defend themselves from the march of the killer cyborg.
>>
>>4210545
>>4210546
>>4210600
>>4210609

It seems we have the general idea down and the goal we want to achieve in this conversation.

Some key points that I'm seeing that I think we can all agree to:
>Make Alpha realize that even though she's without west prime and doesn't like to make choices, she's already making choices of her own. She would not have changed her priorities from hunting down Francine to finding Shu to help "fix her".
>Shu has given her options for West Alpha to choose as Shu's way to help "fix Alpha"
>Shu doesn't want West Alpha to go down in a futile effort in finding West Prime's base. At the same time, Shu doesn't want West Alpha to find Prime's base.
>Shu wants Alpha to grow and become her own person.
>Shu wants Alpha to stop causing chaos and trouble.
>>
>>4210679
Oh right... there was that. Well then we have little reason to not one day try out the skinternet experience with Shu

Yeah for the Skinternet

>>4210681
Oh yeha i meant prime.

As for what i think about Alpha is that she wants to please Prime yeah but she also clearly has shown her want to preserve herself. And if Prime kills everything she A) Will no longer need Alpha
B) Would sacrifice Alpha in the pursuit of her goal which Alpha(who got the closest thing to upset she probably can be already by even taking into consideration that she may have been abandoned)

>>4210688
>'ve been having serious trouble with writer's block when it comes to Alpha

I completely get you.... its hard... like balancing across a monofilament wire while beneath you waits a pool of sharks that fire lasers and spontaneously can transform into Godzilla and or King GidorrahI think thats how you spell the three headed golden dragon Bastard
>>
>>4210681
thats not our goals here at all. our only goal is to prevent Alpha from being a current or future threat to us or anyone else. if Alpha has to die for it, so be it. if we can convince her not to be in bed with Prime, sure, fine, but if we have to fight and put her down to prevent that, then we will.

preferring to not fight her does not mean its our goal to not fight her outright. if we can ensure she is no longer a threat to anyone, then fine, she can go on a wild goose chase. but that is only if her going on that is otherwise not an issue.

>>4210688
that i think falls into the issue too much of that limiting her ability to find her home, and us or Orwell having to devote a ton of time we dont have to managing that. we really cant afford to be babysitting a cyborg that is trying to become an enemy again.

>>4210690
not really on many of those no. you're ignoring part of the problem is and was the simple chaos and death she causes just from being around, and her wanting to reconnect is simply a pretty big no-no. we cant let her have both, its as simple as that.
>>
>>4210692
>>4210690
>>4210688
also, know we dont care, but something not to forget is West Prime and Alpha have caused alot of heartache. being willy nilly too loosey goosey with how we deal with Alpha will turn alot against us, and honestly rightfully so.

theres also plenty of people probably attacking her for all the right reasons, aswell as simply having emotional issues over things West Alpha and Prime have done. sure we cant stop them and its not our job to, but that also doesn't mean that should be ignored in whether we let Alpha go still being basically a nuclear terminator. we cant really justify letting her go without some greater caveat when just on accident she has and can, and probably will, cause some massive heartache.

its asking people to stay away and do nothing about her while she is now willingly trying to become a massive threat again, over being forced to be one. thats a hard sell and harder position to expect people to back up.
>>
>>4210508
>>4210624

Amending vote to this:

>"Alpha, I want you to think about what you said earlier: 'I do not want this choice. I want to be fixed. Prime makes choices. I execute her choices. This is the way of things. Fix me, or I will find one who can.' "
>"Before you came to look for me, what was your previous directive?"
>"And after the west network came down, you came to me of your own volition. Instead of continuing your previous objective, you changed priorities. You made a choice to disobey Prime's previous directive."
>"You already made a choice of your own instead of letting Prime make the choice for you."
>"If I have your word that you won’t harm us, then you have mine that we won’t harm you. One of us breaks that promise? Then we come to blows. Understood?"
>"But please consider that her lab is very well concealed and hidden. You on your own may never find it."
>"You could be searching for years.... and seeing how fast things are moving now... I don't think we.... You or us have that time."
>"The crucible will end soon. Prime will clash with Mara if she is still standing her vigil. I am sure that she thinks she can take Mara. You would have been a nice tool to further her own strength and get her through he cord easier. But in the end she would have abandoned you to die as she ascends the throne and condemned every being on this world to death, including you."
>"But that is not my concern right now. My concern is how others will react to your actions, choices, and current goal."
>"In your search for West Prime's base, will you be tearing apart settlements and knock people aside just because they happen to be near you, or misinterpreted what you were there for? Or will you be leaving them alone for the sake of efficiency?"
>"The reason why people attack you, the reason why you constantly encounter groups of those battles, is because they fear you. They fear your goal, they fear West Prime, and thus fear you as her tool."
>"If you could not just promise not to be a threat, not to needless tear down settlements or cut others down in your search, as well as give up something to even the playing field... then i could not only let you go, but put it on my own word to tell folks to leave you alone and give you the benefit of the doubt... so long as you do the same. someone not wishing to help you does not give you the right to tear them o their homes apart, so long as they otherwise do not threaten you."
>"If you agree to this promise, your journey will become much smoother and more efficient overall. No more groups of daughters delaying you from your goal and path by battling you. If you stay to your promise long enough, there may be some daughters who might help you on your path."
>"...if not though... then whether you care or not, West Prime is a killer, a monster... and so long as you will do anything in your power to be a part of that... so are you, and that's not something we can let roam free."
>"This is a choice, YOUR choice"
>>
>>4210714
yeah she will have to deal with disruptions for as long as she lives. If she had emotions like the rest of the West network we could try and appeal to her to try and make ammends for the thigns hs ehas done.

Kleios friend would certainly love to sink her teeth into her and she is just someone we have an idea exists..... God knows how many lives Alpha has snuffed out herself.

There are probably still hundreds of daughters out there baying for her blood.

So giving her our protection or seal of approval would be hugely detrimental.We might be able to set thigns right but defnietly in the short term we will have a lot less friends
>>
>>4210714
Yeah, you're not wrong. That's why I'm having trouble with my write-in, I want to say "okay, just agree not to bother anyone and we'll try to make sure nobody bothers you", but that's not plausible. Alpha is a huge, unstable potential threat, and her getting fixed just turns her into a huge, stable potential threat. People are going to want to dispose of her, and we can't exactly tell them they're wrong to. Maybe we could get her to empathize with their worry, if that's possible, lead her to make a connection between her discomfort with her lack of direction and the fear they feel at the uncertainty of the danger she poses. But I just don't know if that will actually dissuade her from anything.
>>
>>4210634
>>4210725
>>4210721
>>4210714
On an unrelated note. Would this spell make the caster invisible?

REV VUL GRA SHIL(REVERSE ENEMY GREATER INVISIBILITY)
>>
>>4210736
No, I think it would reveal invisible enemies.
>>
>>4210725
>lead her to make a connection between her discomfort with her lack of direction and the fear they feel at the uncertainty of the danger she poses. But I just don't know if that will actually dissuade her from anything.
its worth a shot. may not work, but she has shown enough to at least understand the logic of it, which may help her agree to do something to ease their worries.

>>4210721
>"The crucible will end soon. Prime will clash with Mara if she is still standing her vigil. I am sure that she thinks she can take Mara. You would have been a nice tool to further her own strength and get her through he cord easier. But in the end she would have abandoned you to die as she ascends the throne and condemned every being on this world to death, including you."
im still heavily against this line. way too direct when she has brushed off anything akin to West abandoning her already.

also feels like it has some redundant lines in it too.
>>
>>4210736
>>4210740
no, REV doesn't work like that, remember?
that spell is technically "Allied Greater Invisibility"
so yeah, it would make an ally invisible. why you would reverse Enemy over just using the word for ally, i dont know, though i guess you might not have the word for ally.
>>
>>4210725
>>4210724
>>4210714
We can't leave her alone, at the same time we can't afford to devote all our resources and energies toward helping Alpha.
We could do is to provide the basic necessities by having Alpha connect to the skinternet or even to the Proxy Discord network before sending her on her way, but we also need a way to ensure that West Alpha doesn't become a giant future threat.
And we're running out of time in the voting window. a little more than one hour left.

>>4210741
My amended vote was basically a compiled composite of all the best bits that I felt would make sense in our response.
You're free to alter it as you wish.
>>
>>4210744
>The Amalgam does not have the word for ally.

You are correct...

Damn i have no idea what i could combine to make the Amalgam target itself with the spell....

I don't think we ever got to see the word for self anywhere did we?
>>
>>4210746
and i highly disagree that is the best bit, and even the Anon who put it forward changed it to be less direct.

>provide the basic necessities by having Alpha connect to the skinternet or even to the Proxy Discord network before sending her on her way, but we also need a way to ensure that West Alpha doesn't become a giant future threat.
well, we did try, but BHOP cut the part about the Skinternet out for some reason.
>>
>>4210740
>>4210740
I think for that it would have to be
VUL GRA REV SHIL
>>
>>4210750
Nope. As far as we know, it might not even exist. Or if it does, it's some really high-level thing that only late-game Skintalkers unlock.
>>
>>4210750
i think if neither enemy nor ally are designated, it defaults to the self or randomly, depending on which makes sense.

terrain effects target random terrain, boons target yourself, and debuffs target 'general enemy'.
or so is the impression BHOP gave off with previous questions to him about Skintalking.
>>
>>4210721
You can keep your opinion Anon. Though by now i am also convinced that the mara line was bit to far and that it is pushing to far to quickly with the abandoning part.

But dam it i cant think of anything better than what we already have.... I think we will have to trust OP on this one that he will pick and choose what will not screw us over completely

>>4210759
Well i will for the moment then just assume that the Skintalking will direct the spell it towards the Amalgam. Unless OP later tells me otherwise
>>
>>4210508
>>Write-In
>"What about everyone in your way? You said that Prime told you that I was a bug in the system messing with everyone's plans. Right now that description can apply to you just as well. Everyone is scared of you, Alpha. Nobody has any idea what to make of you, with you wandering like this. That uncertainty leaves them afraid. And if you get reconnected they're only going to be more scared. Prime's greatest weapon will be in her hands again."
>"But Prime wouldn't have told you that about me if it didn't mean anything to you. On some level, you don't want to cause so much disruption, do you? Maybe you don't care about people, but you care about orderliness. You care about having a clear situation that you can act on. And if you keep searching for Prime's base like you have, you're going to leave the fleshscape in chaos."
>"That's the horrible situation that Prime has left you in. You're lost without her direction, and you very much want to get some semblance of order again. But everyone else is just as uncertain and worried, and your search to find order is going to scare them so much that it just makes things more chaotic. A world full of scared people trying to kill you to end the threat you pose is hardly orderly. You won't get what you want, this way."
>"If you could make yourself not a threat to them, leave them assured, then things would go much better for you. You could be left to your own business, as you've offered to do with me. The best way for you to find the certainty you're looking for is to give them certainty. What do you say?"

I don't like the ending, there, it's weak, but I just want to get something out there instead of agonizing over the perfect write-in.
>>
>>4210721
>>4210508
Amending my vote again:

>"Alpha, I want you to think about what you said earlier: 'I do not want this choice. I want to be fixed. Prime makes choices. I execute her choices. This is the way of things. Fix me, or I will find one who can.' "
>"Before you came to look for me, what was your previous directive?"
>"And after the west network came down, you came to me of your own volition. Instead of continuing your previous objective, you changed priorities. You made a choice to disobey Prime's previous directive."
>"You already made a choice of your own instead of letting Prime make the choice for you."
>"In your search for West Prime's base, will you be tearing apart settlements and knock people aside just because they happen to be near you, or misinterpreted what you were there for? Or will you be leaving them alone for the sake of efficiency?"
>"The reason why people attack you, the reason why you constantly encounter groups of those battles, is because they fear you. They fear your goal, they fear West Prime, and thus fear you as her tool."
>"But that issue could be fixed."
>"If you could not just promise not to be a threat, not to needless tear down settlements or cut others down in your search, as well as give up something to even the playing field...as proof of that promise, then i could not only let you go, but put it on my own word to tell folks to leave you alone and give you the benefit of the doubt... so long as you do the same. Someone not wishing to help you does not give you the right to tear them o their homes apart, so long as they otherwise do not threaten you."
>"If you agree to this promise, your journey will become much smoother and more efficient overall. No more groups of daughters delaying you from your goal and path by battling you. If you stay to your promise long enough, there may be some daughters who might help you on your path."
>"...if not though... then whether you care or not, West Prime is a killer, a monster... and so long as you will do anything in your power to be a part of that... so are you, and that's not something we can let roam free."
>"But please consider this while you search for West Prime's lab. It is very well concealed and hidden. You on your own may never find it."
>"You could be searching for years.... and seeing how fast things are moving now... I don't think we.... You or us have that time."
>"This is my offer: Promise to not become a threat to others, give me something as proof that you won't, and My family and I will leave you alone as well as tell everyone else to not attack you."
>"This is a choice that I'm offering you. You can take the offer, or you can refuse it."
>"You are the one making the choice here, Not I."
>"You are the one in control."

It may sound redundant, but reiterating it will reinforce the idea.
>>
>>4210546
>>4210508
amending vote, would prefer it to be on its own though;
>”And what of others while you search? Will you smash and cut your way through settlement and Daughters alike? Will any hand not offered in help be seen as an enemy?”1
>”Alpha, no one knows even close to where Primes home is. You could be looking for years, years no one may have. We both know the Crucible wont continue forever, and we both know Prime would make sure even the most astute detective may have trouble finding her home… and we both know you’re not the most astute detective, im not either.”
>”We cant let you go without assurance of more than words you’ll not destroy everything in your path to get what you want. We cant have you running around being a threat to everyone.”
>”Alpha? That fear, that uncertainty? That sense of loss you have? That what people feel about YOU. about you running around, about you trying to reconnect to Prime.”
>”I understand you dont care about the morality or emotion of it, but surely even you can see the logic in it? The reason so many try and stop you if they feel that way, feel that uncertainty?”
>”We cant let you go unless you do one of two things; either give the world assurances, give the world proof you wont be a threat to anyone while you look for Primes home, or you must give up your search to reconnect to Prime.”
>Do one of the other, and you will not only see less people attack you, less people making what you want harder… but ill personally give my word ill put word out to leave you alone, and to let you go about your business. But we would need assurance of one or the other.”
>”and to make things easier… know anything you give up, if your so sure you can find Primes home and get fixed, that too could be fixed if you succeed.”
>”Your choice. Yours.”
>”Just like you made the choice to seek me out, to drop everything to try and get fixed. It is your choice. Not Primes. It cant be, it wont be, and it is not.”
>”You have been making your own choices since the moment the network fell. And everything from here on out will continue to be.”
>”Prime is gone. She cant, and she wont be making your choices for you. Even if you choose to seek her out? To reconnect? It will be your decision alone. It has to be, whether you like it or not.”
>”But know this. If you choose neither? And if you choose to reconnect to her regardless? Your choosing to be a threat, a monster. People fear Prime, and thus you. They fear what she wants, and what she does. They attack you out of fear, and uncertainty, and so long as you seek to be part of Prime… then you are choosing to be a monster like her. And people will react as such.”
>”...but in the end. Its your choice. And no one else's, what happens here and what your future will be.”


>>4210775
>>4210754
>>4210746
tried to get more of the overall gist in, but with less issues with some things that have been stated.
>>
>>4210508
Ammending vote again from >>4210609
to>>4210791
>>
>>4210508
Amending my vote >>4210788

in support of >>4210791

I think you've put it better in a more succinct manner. Thanks for the help with this collaboration.

In other news, I believe I've recovered my muse again and resumed my pace of writing on Chapter 5 of Carter and the Town of Cradleton.
>>
>>4210801
good luck, and hope it flows quite freely.
ima go grab lunch, so if i dont respond to something important before voting ends, i apologize in advance.
>>
>>4210801
good to hear she is back. Make the most of her while you have her with you.
>>
>>4210508
Changing>>4210531
to>>4210791
>>
>>4210801
(I'm glad, and I wish you the best of luck!)

>>4210804
(Enjoy your lunch. I just got back home, myself.)

>>4210660
(This is fantastic. Considering that the idea in the back of my mind for the next Quest involves more than a little inspiration from BLAME! and Dorohedoro, this is a treat to see.)
>>
>>4210809
OP a question for you.

if a skintalkign spell granting invisibility is cast without specifying a target. Would it cloak the caster or a random person in combat or even a piece of terrain?
>>
>>4210812
(It errs towards the caster, but as with anything that isn't explicitly specified, there's a margin of error, so there'd be about a 25% chance of it firing off at a random target or piece of terrain.)
>>
>>4210821
ah okay. and i take you are not inclined towards revealing the targeting word for self are you?

Well no matter. Since that Amalgam i am working with right now doesn't primarily rely on sight it makes no real difference for its fighting style so it would be okay if the spell accidentally hit something else.
>>
>>4210801
Oh, that's good, I'm glad you've found your stride again. I look forward to reading it.

>>4210823
Might make things worse for its enemies, then. Not only is the monster turning invisible, occasionally your allies do without warning and as a result accidentally get caught in friendly fire.
>>
>>4210823
(For you, I'll be happy to. It's SOL. Amara has yet to learn it, but it won't be long until she does given how her Joyous are doing, so I'm fine with revealing it now.)
>>
>>4210830
Oh thank you very much. I think then that the Amalgam will use that on the second turn and then starts to randomly hitting other people with debuffs and maybe even invisibility. to throw them off their game
>>
>>4210809
oh, while on the topic.
what would REV VITA CUNT(Death Enemy) do?
i know its not the instant death spell, but would it just deal direct damage to an enemy, or just cause 'any effect' that brings them closer to death or hurts them?
>>
>>4210835
Haven't we used that before? That's the spell to reverse enemy Health values, I believe.
>>
also... just had a weird idea... what if we gave the Ants skintalking? it would require them to grow the ability to speak in some form, and might thus then allow them to learn to talk in English, possibly anyways.
>>
>>4210842
Oh yeah we can no longer talk to the ants directly due to no longer having theEmpathic field... We will now pretty much always need Gina with us if we want to talk to them.... Or maybe Amara can do that as well
>>
>>4210840
i think we used a different set of word? because all Rev does is reverse the next word, not be the word 'reverse' in and of itself.
also i swore said string was at least three long. could be wrong though. really dont remember.

id have to question though why rev works differently there than any other point though, if that is it.
>>
>>4210848
well, we first talked to her via a jackling anyways, one that was never mentioned not to be in the queen anymore.

so, we should still be good i think. i was just more of trying to make us not have to rely on that at all, and allow them to talk to non neuromancers too.
>>
>>4210842
Could work. Even if it only gives them the ability to speak the Skintalker language, I can see there being an ability somewhere in Amara's skill tree that enables everyone around her to communicate with each other regardless of language barriers. It fits her general theme.

>>4210851
No, I found it, it's in Vein 31 when we fought Yurei. REV VITA inverts Health. It was three words because we threw a GRA in there for emphasis. I guess the idea is that it works differently because VITA normally doesn't do anything on its own anyway, so the inverted version gets to be a special case or something like that.
>>
>>4210866
hrm, i guess

>>4210830
would still like confirmation on why it works differently at least, if you dont mind BHOP.
>>
>>4210835
>>4210868
(It has two possible effects; if used on a stable Daughter, then it will reverse their health values as you've seen in the past though you can end up giving the enemy more HEALTH if you use it at the wrong moment, say if the enemy was at 1,220 HP, then they would go down to 221 HP, but if they were at 1229 HP, then you'd give them 9221 HP instead. Now, if it's used on a foe that is making death saving throws, then any time they'd roll a success, it turns into a failure, and vice versa.)

(The Power Words are really, really weird and broken as in overpowered, if I'm being honest. They're by far the most complex part of Skintalking.)
>>
>>4210872
>>4210868
(To clarify a bit further, VITA is essentially the subject of the string. It doesn't work like the other normal words, as it has to be acted upon by supporting words. REV VITA equals 'Reverse Health'. If used alongside the paired word that means 'regen', then one can drastically speed up HEALTH REGEN or slow it to a full stop, on top of other weird things like shuffling HEALTH totals around between friend and foe, and even substituting one's own HEALTH for the HEALTH of a piece of terrain or a powerful Relic. There's a ton of weird stuff you can do, all with a margin for failing miserably or snapping an encounter in two with a critical success.)
>>
>>4210872
hrm, alright.
pretty loose as an explanation but ill chalk it up to how little we really know about skintalking overall in the first place.
>>
>>4210880
seems... overly complicated and vague honestly, not gonna lie.
>>
>>4210886
(Oh, it is. Full-stop. It's probably the most complex system in this whole thing on the back-end, and a testament to my misplaced hubris.)
>>
>>4210880
So REV VITA BAUM would reduce a target HEALTH regen by a forth i take it?

So what would TER VITA NUKA do..... Would it convert life force of the ground to nuclear power? Or would it infuse the ground with nuclear power equal to the life of the user...?
>>
>>4210888
I guess my thing is it just makes it kinda iffy to use the class, or well, the lexicon part of it.

speaking of, not asking FOR the word, but is there a word for what people confuse Rev for? that is, actually meaning 'reverse', over simply reversing the next words meaning?
>>
>>4210902
I think that a word functioning as multiple parts of speech depending on context makes perfect sense for a language (after all, it's how it works with the actual word "reverse"), but not having that context explained to us in advance is confusing to work with. We need a Hollistic Grammar in addition to a Hollistic Lexicon. Shit, I kind of want to give Amara an ability called "Hollistic Grammar", now, just as a dumb joke. BHOP, can that be the name of an Augment?
>>
>>4210912
well yeah but im talking about from a mechanical point of view, not just a lore point of view.
mechanically, that is honestly just a horrendous lack of detail to make the lexicon as viable or fun as one would hope. doesn't matter if it makes sense as a language, you gave it to us as a mechanical ability, and then snipped its use by not treating it like one but forcing to have to to some level. also further hinders any interest or want to explore the class as a whole when you make it that much of an issue to even understand it.
>>
>>4210893
(Yes, and TER VITA NUKA would infuse a piece of ground with Radiant damage potential equal to its health, basically turning a swathe of land into a Radiant damage-dealing bomb that would go off at the slightest touch.)

>>4210902
(How do you mean 'confuse REV for', exactly? I'm afraid I don't quite follow, my apologies.)

>>4210912
(Absolutely, that's hilarious.)
>>
(Also, just about to wrap up the next update, Gentlemen.)
>>
>>4210923
>REV (Bio-5%): A word indicating a reversal of fortune, it causes the word following it to have its effects reversed.
you have consistently said and backed up this means and effects things by essentially meaning it changes the next words meaning, NOT it itself means "reverse".

what i mean is, if you did 'REV CUNT', it would not be 'Reverse Enemy', it would just mean 'Ally'. you have, as i said, consistently said this is how it works. i am asking, then, how one would GET 'Reverse Enemy', over REV, which would technically be 'absorbed' into the next word to give a new meaning to the combo.

because of how 'Rev' works, we actually have no word actually meaning 'Reverse' in the actual sense of 'reversing' anything or the effects of anything on someone else. i was wondering if theres a separate word that then actually MEANS 'Reverse', over doing what REV does.
>>
>>4210923
He means that he wants the word that would cause an effect to play out in reverese. like winding back a tape or something.

I think that would need word for time then to truly be effective....
>>
>>4210923
>>4210936
oh, and the 'confuse' part is that people keep thinking it means 'Reverse' exactly like i said you have backed up it doesn't.

and then for some reason it does for VITA, but you said that was VITAS fault, so, different conversation.
>>
>>4210936
(Oh, I see what you mean, now. There is a separate word that actually means 'reverse' and is a far more straightforward version of it, yes.)
>>
>>4210920
I'm not disagreeing. Languages are composed of a lexicon and a grammar. We have the lexicon, so we know what words mean. We don't have a grammar for Skintalking, though, which means we can't construct phrases from those meanings, at least not to their full potential.
>>
>>4210947
alright, thanks.

>>4210950
i think my issue with that is IC we have seen evidence of Amara understanding the Grammar though, which then brings up issues with us and how it works OOC trying to use it.
>>
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>>4210508

”And what of others while you search? Will you smash and cut your way through settlement and Daughters alike? Will any hand not offered in help be seen as an enemy?” Comes your inevitable question, one that gives the Proxy some measure of pause. ”Alpha, no one knows even close to where Primes home is. You could be looking for years, years no one may have. We both know the Crucible won't continue forever, we both know Prime would make sure even the most astute detective may have trouble finding her home…and we both know you’re not the most astute detective, because I'm not, either.”

"...What are you suggesting?" She murmurs.

”We can't let you go without assurance of more than words that you’ll not destroy everything in your path to get what you want. We can't have you running around being a threat to everyone.” You explain. ”Alpha? That fear, that uncertainty? That sense of loss you have? That what people feel about YOU. About you running around, about you trying to reconnect to Prime. I understand you don't care about the morality or emotion of it, but surely even you can see the logic in it? The reason so many try and stop you if they feel that way, feel that uncertainty?”

"I see the logic, yes." Alpha admits. "I will ask again - what are you suggesting?"

”One of two things. Either give the world assurances, some kind of proof you won't be a threat to anyone while you look for Prime's home, or give up your search to reconnect to Prime. Do one of the other, and you will not only see less people attack you, less people making what you want harder…but I'll personally give my word I'll put word out to leave you alone, and to let you go about your business. But we would need assurance of one or the other...and to make things easier, know that anything you give up, if you're so sure you can find Prime's home and get fixed, then that too could be fixed if you succeed.”

Her head twitches again, mind creaking under the weight of the decision before her.

”This is your choice, Alpha. Yours.” You softly urge. You take a step forward, bolder this time even as Isabelle hisses.

"Are you fucking suicidal?" She harshly whispers, emerald eyes wide with fear. "What the hell are you do-"

”Just like you made the choice to seek me out, to drop everything to try and get fixed. It's your choice." You continue, slowly stepping down the hill after gently waving B'ni's grasping hand aside. "Not Prime's. It can't be, it won't be, and it is not. You have been making your own choices since the moment the network fell. And everything from here on out will continue to be. Prime is gone. She can't, and she won't be making your choices for you."

(Continued)
>>
>>4210991

"Even if you choose to seek her out? To reconnect? It will be your decision alone. It has to be, whether you like it or not...but know this. If you choose neither? If you choose to reconnect to her regardless? You're choosing to be a threat, a monster. People fear Prime, and thus you by extension. They fear what she wants, and what she does. They attack you out of fear, and uncertainty, and so long as you seek to be part of Prime…then you are choosing to be a monster like her. And people will react as such.”

You're eye-level with her now, just a step or two from the bottom of the hill from where you stood. Still a healthy distance away, but as she looks at you, meeting your gaze with eyes hidden under a shroud of flesh...it strikes you that you and she on the same level for the first time in this whole bizarre conversation.

”...In the end? It's your choice and no one else's, what happens here and what your future will be.”

She's quiet, fingers arrhythmically tapping against the palm of her hand as the gears turn in her burgeoning mind.

"Earlier, you said that I must give some kind of proof. If I am to proceed without being harassed. I see the logic in this." Alpha finally relents. "What form should that take? A promise? A deed?"

You're about to open your mouth, only to close it with a shrug. "That's your call to make."

She's clearly agitated, a nine-foot-tall engine of destruction with the mind of an errant child, struggling over how to prove what she means.

(Continued)
>>
>>4211007

"I...promise that I will not take offensive action against any individual or groups that I encounter, unless they initiate combat first and are evaluated to be a valid threat against this experiment's integrity." Alpha finally declares, a hint of trepidation in her otherwise monotone voice. "To that end I will be avoiding settlements in their entirety. I will also maintain considerable distance from Daughters where feasible."

"That's a...decent start." You admit, only for Alpha to shudder once again.

"As I search for Prime's laboratory, I will keep these two promises...but I will search. I will not negotiate in this. Now, is there more I must do to supply proof?" She demands, more out of curiosity than anger...though given her level tone, that's just your best guess. "I cannot disengage my systems without risking their equilibrium. Are words not enough?"

"Not usually." You admit, heart sinking as the unwavering nature of her goal becomes a line in the sand.

"People believe *your* words." Alpha replies. "I have seen what Prime has seen. Daughters believe you. They believe your promises, even if you have little data to back up your promises. Why would they not trust in the truth that I speak?"

You blink, glancing back up the hill to see Orwell's willowy form motioning to you, her gesture leaving no room for confusion as to the fact that this is entire interaction is 'live'.

A promise spoken by a thing built for war. A simple promise, at that. Is it enough for them?

Is it enough for you?

>>"...Maybe they will believe it...it's up to them to make that choice, just as you've made yours. For what it's worth, Alpha? I believe you. Good luck out there, and I hope you find your search illuminating."

>>"I think people will need something more, Alpha. Is there anything else you can do to assuage their fears?"

>>"You said you might risk equilibrium, but that might not be a guarantee, right? Could you maybe do without one or two of your Forge Cores, or maybe your Halo?"

>>She's made her decision. She's seeking West's lab, and the possibility of their reunion isn't one you can abide. [Trigger Arbiter's Judgement]

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open for the next three hours.)
>>
>>4211011
>"People believe my words because i have proven in the past that i keep my word. You have never truly interacted peacefully with anyone outside of the network to my knowledge. You have been an agent of destruction for Prime and little else to the world. Your actions during the last day or so also have not helped people to re evaluate you as anything but a menace to them."
>"Unlike Primes words to you. My words are not an absolute to these daughters out there. I can tell them to stop but how many of those that have lost loved ones to you or Prime will that keep at bay?"
>"As it stands right now I think people will need something more, Alpha. Is there anything else you can do to assuage their fears? We do have an expert for forge technology that could help you stop any potential imbalances"

Opinions?
>>
>>4211011
>"Its not enough... because people trust my word, not just because of what i have done, but because of what ive stood for."
>"you? West Prime? She stands for death. destruction. atrocities. you share her face, and you both did and wish to work for her again. this makes people question your word, even if you otherwise do not lie. because truth leading to the unthinkable can be worse to people than lies."
>"Your Cores, or Halo. something. im not asking for you to hand them over, but maybe them being destroyed, even just one, would prove your case. a bit of Equilibrium might actually put alot of peoples minds at ease, as it were."
>"For what its worth? I trust you, and though you may not understand it... I do only want whats best for you. But i cant do that at the expense of everyone else. not for nothing, when whether you understand it or not, more and many out there have every reason in the world to hate you and Prime. they need something Alpha, anything, to feel like you wont keep doing those things, to feel like to some level you have given something up in return for all the pain and misery you have caused them."
>"Doing whats right Alpha, can sometimes be costly. Just an Hour ago Alpha, i gave up my Emapthic Field. Because i needed to give others something more than words, proof I meant everything i said and stood for. Even my own word Alpha, requires actions from me to prove i mean them. people would expect no less from you, or anyone else."
>"But if you do? You have my word,to the bitter end, I'll defend your right to make this choice, even if I do not at all agree with it."
>>
>>4211011
Amending my vote from >>4211024 to this:

>"Its not enough... people trust my word, not just because of what i have done, but because of what ive stood and still stand for."
>" West Prime? She stands for death. destruction. atrocities. Because you share her face and that makes you responsible for what Prime did, and you both did and wish to work for her again. This makes people question your word, even if you otherwise do not lie. that because truth leading to the unthinkable can be worse to people than lies."
>"Your Cores, or Halo. something that is of great value to you. im not asking for you to hand them over, but maybe them being destroyed, even just one, would prove your case. a bit of an upset Equilibrium might actually put alot of peoples minds at ease, as it were and will probably prevent many of them from coming after you believing you are starting to repent for what Prime did through you..."
>"For what its worth? I trust you, and though you may not understand it... I do only want whats best for you. But i cant do that at the expense of everyone else. not for nothing, when whether you understand it or not, more and many out there have every reason in the world to hate you and Prime. they need something Alpha, anything, to feel like you wont keep doing those things, to feel like to some level you have given something up in return for all the pain and misery you have caused them."
>"Doing whats right Alpha, can sometimes be costly. Just an Hour ago Alpha, i gave up my Emapthic Field. Because i needed to give others something more than words, proof I meant everything i said and stood for. Even my own word Alpha, requires actions from me to prove i mean them. people would expect no less from you, or anyone else."
>"But if you do? You have my word,to the bitter end, I'll defend your right to make this choice, even if I do not at all agree with it."
>>
I think i will head to bed now.

Good night Anons

Good night OP

six hours of sleep should suffice i think to get my energy back
>>
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>>4211055
night Anon.
>>
>>4211013
Goddammit Bhop. This encounter is turning into the Crucible equivalent of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

>>4211011

>"People believe my words because I support my words with actions that prove it."
>"But as for you? Your past actions, the many months of history that has been recorded on the skinternet has already given you a reputation of a cold efficient killing machine who shows no mercy, who shows no emotion, who obeys no one but West Prime."
>"And because of that, they fear you. They're hesitant to trust you. Some of them may not believe you words or even mine. Some of them may still attack on sight."

>"Unless they have proof that tells them you truly meant it. And that requires giving up a small part of yourself. A forge core, a blueprint, the halo, something that defines you who you are."
>"Doing what's right, sometimes just to prove to others that you're holding yourself to a promise, can be costly. It feels counter intuitive from a logical standpoint."
>"But that's the entire point. You have seen my history. The world knows me by my signature power, my empathy field that lets me feel the emotions of others and transmit them. The know me by the many promises that I made with words, and my ability to fulfill them."
>"A few hours ago, I gave up my Empathy field. I had it permanently severed. I did that because I needed to give others something more than just empty words. I need to give them proof that I meant everything that I said and stood up for."
>"It's counter-intuitive, yes. It runs against the logic of the Crucible. But my decision to gimp my self was because I wanted to support my words with actions."

>"For what it's worth. I believe your words. I know you're the type of person that keeps to their word. But those are just words. My words will not convince everyone. Whether they believe our words or not, it will be their choice."
>"Unless you prove your words with an action that convinces them you will keep to your promise. by giving up something that defines you. Be it your revealing the blueprint to the Forge core matrix in your body, the Generator Halo above your head, or something else entirely."
>"If you cannot disengage your systems without risking stability, then we will help you find a work-around."
>"Just like how I sacrificed my Empathy field, to prove to the world that my words aren't empty promises."

>"It's your choice Alpha, you can walk away and hope that those who are watching this exchange will believe your words."
>"Or you can prove it to all of them that you will support your promises with your actions."
>"And if you do? You have my word to the bitter end. I will defend your right to make this choice, even if I do not at all agree to it."
>"You are in control."

>If Alpha takes the offer:
>"Good luck Alpha, I hope you're able to find Prime's home and find what you're looking for within that home. And...I hope that along the way, you might be able to learn something about yourself."
>>
>>4211058
>Hoot.
>>
>>4211107
>>4211011
>If Alpha takes the offer:
still not a fan of these parts, regardless of anything else, so voting against that part for sure.
>>
>>4211107
>>4211011

Slightly amending my vote:

>"People believe my words because I support my words with actions that prove it."
>"But as for you? Your past actions, the many months of history that has been recorded on the skinternet has already given you a reputation of a cold efficient killing machine who shows no mercy, who shows no emotion, who obeys no one but West Prime."
>"And because of that, they fear you. They're hesitant to trust you. Some of them may not believe you words or even mine. Some of them may still attack on sight."

>"Unless they have proof that tells them you truly meant it. And that requires giving up a small part of yourself. A forge core, a blueprint, the halo, something that defines you who you are."
>"Doing what's right, sometimes just to prove to others that you're holding yourself to a promise, can be costly. It feels counter intuitive from a logical standpoint."
>"But that's the entire point. You have seen my history. The world knows me by my signature power, my empathy field that lets me feel the emotions of others and transmit them. The know me by the many promises that I made with words, and my ability to fulfill them."
>"A few hours ago, I gave up my Empathy field. I had it permanently severed. I did that because I needed to give others something more than just empty words. I need to give them proof that I meant everything that I said and stood up for."
>"It's counter-intuitive, yes. It runs against the logic of the Crucible. But my decision to gimp my self was because I wanted to support my words with actions."

>"For what it's worth. I believe your words. I know you're the type of person that keeps to their word. But those are just words. My words will not convince everyone. Whether they believe our words or not, it will be their choice."
>"Unless you prove your words with an action that convinces them you will keep to your promise. by giving up something that defines you. Be it your revealing the blueprint to the Forge core matrix in your body, the Generator Halo above your head, or something else entirely."
>"If you cannot disengage your systems without risking stability, then we will help you find a work-around."
>"Just like how I sacrificed my Empathy field, to prove to the world that my words aren't empty promises."

>"It's your choice Alpha, you can walk away and hope that those who are watching this exchange will believe your words."
>"Or you can prove it to all of them that you will support your promises with your actions."
>"And if you do? You have my word to the bitter end. I will defend your right to make this choice, even if I do not at all agree to it."
>"You are in control."
>>
>>4211011
>>4211030
ill amend to to;
>"Its not enough... because people trust my word, not just because of what i have done, but because of what ive stood for."
>"West Prime? She stands for death. destruction. atrocities. you share her face, and you both did and wish to work for her again. this makes people question your word, even if you otherwise do not lie. because truth leading to the unthinkable can be worse to people than lies."
>"Your Cores, or Halo. something. im not asking for you to hand them over, but maybe them being destroyed, even just one, would prove your case. a bit of Equilibrium might actually put alot of peoples minds at ease, as it were."
>"For what its worth? I trust you, and though you may not understand it... I do only want whats best for you. But i cant do that at the expense of everyone else. not for nothing, when whether you understand it or not, more and many out there have every reason in the world to hate you and Prime. they need something Alpha, anything, to feel like you wont keep doing those things, to feel like to some level you have given something up in return for all the pain and misery you have caused them."
>"Doing whats right Alpha, can sometimes be costly. Just an Hour ago Alpha, i gave up my Emapthic Field. Because i needed to give others something more than words, proof I meant everything i said and stood for. Even my own word Alpha, requires actions from me to prove i mean them. people would expect no less from you, or anyone else."
>"But if you do? You have my word,to the bitter end, I'll defend your right to make this choice, even if I do not at all agree with it."

to be slightly more in line with >>4211047
except i really dont like the
>Because you share her face and that makes you responsible for what Prime did
change to the second line at all. having her face doesn't make her responsible, only the fact she followed her orders. maybe he meant "because you have it, people see you as responsible", which im ok with, but placing the blame directly on it just because of the face is not right.
>>
(Got roped into shuffling around furniture by Mrs. BHOP, so I'll be writing here shortly after I have a bit of dinner, Gentlemen.)
>>
>>4211312
haha, funny as i just did a bit of reshuffling today myself. well hope everything is nice and where she wants it, and hope shes rewarding you with something grand.
>>
>>4211011

Shaking your head, you fear that what you're about to say next may be the match that ignites this tinderbox of a confrontation...but it needs to be said, come what may.

"It's not enough...because people trust my word not just because of what I've done, but because of what I've stood for. West Prime? Regardless of what you think of her, to me and everyone else that's fighting in the Crucible, she stands for death. Destruction. Atrocities. You worked for her, and when you say you want to work for her again then that makes people question your word, even if you're telling the truth. Because truth leading to the unthinkable can be worse to people than lies."

"I...I think I see the logic in this, yes." Alpha acknowledges with a stiff nod. "Then more proof is required, yes?"

"Your Cores, or your Halo. Something. Anything. Look, I'm not asking for you to hand them over, but maybe them being destroyed, even just one, would prove your case. A bit of equilibrium might actually put a lot of people's minds at ease, as it were."

At that, she places a hand on her chest, looking down at herself as she measures your words against what she's willing to part with.

"For what it's worth?" You add with a weary sigh. "I trust you, and though you may not understand it, I only want what's best for you. But I cant do that at the expense of everyone else. Not for nothing, when whether you understand it or not, more and many out there have every reason in the world to hate you and Prime. They need something, Alpha. Anything, to feel like you wont keep doing those things, to feel like to some level you've given something up in return for all the pain and misery you and West Prime have caused them."

"I need these things." Alpha says pitifully, looking up at you with her head cocked to one side. "I am not as efficient without them. I will be drastically reducing my overall efficacy."

"Doing what's right can sometimes be costly, Alpha. Just an hour ago, I gave up my empathic field - I needed to give others something more than words, proof I meant everything I said and stood for. Even my own word requires actions from me to prove I mean them. People would expect no less from you, or anyone else...but if you do? You have my word, to the bitter end, I'll defend your right to make this choice, even if I do not at all agree with it."

"You...you do not agree with this...choice, that I have made? But still you say that you will defend it?" Alpha says slowly, confusedly echoing your words. "I...there is no logic in this. I understand why you have fixed the people you have to this point. All of them could benefit you. All could be of use. I am, as you have said, a threat...why are you defending me when I am doing something that could make me a threat to you again?"

You close your eyes, and take a breath.

(Continued)
>>
>>4211578

"Because I believe in choice, Alpha." You affirm, fixing your newly-opened eyes on the woman that stands before you. "You've made a choice...and even if I don't agree with it, then I'm going to damn well defend your right to make it, regardless of my own opinions. Because it's what I fight for - because it's the right thing to do."

A warm wind blows across the golden plains, a thing of beauty in a warped and wounded world. Alpha stands very still, her shroud billowing in the breeze as it passes...and then, quite deliberately, she reaches into her cloak's ragged folds with both hands. You watch as this engine of death, this whirlwind of chaos shudders and trembles with the effort of what she's tearing free. With a final groaning creak of metal and the all-too familiar sound of flesh being torn asunder, Alpha withdraws her hands to reveal a pair of glowing spheres - two Forge Cores, their flickering orange lights tainted with a sickly yellow pallor that squirms just beneath the surface of the twin orbs. Kneeling, she places them on the ground in front of her, and you watch as they char the ground where they lay, the scent of burning flesh and scorched hair filling the air.

{Holy FUCK. She just...Francine just said Alpha's health just dropped by over a third, and her attack power took a major fucking nosedive} Gina mutters incredulously, shock evident in her voice.

"These...these Cores must not be separated. Two halves of a whole, like the pair I still possess. Without the other, they will melt down within minutes." Alpha informs you, rising unsteadily to her feet, clenching her hands into fists to hide trembling fingers. "Do not be within thirteen kilometres of either Core, should this event transpire."

"What can we even do with these?" You ask, staring at the unstable spheres in awe.

"You break things. You fix people." Alpha answers softly. "You will do one or the other. This is what you do. So...you have my backup Cores, and you have my word. Do these suffice?"

"...Yes. For me, they do." Comes your reply as you look into the shadowy depths of her blackened shroud. "I can only speak for me and mine, but I believe you. Your words and your actions."

"Then I will begin my search immediately." Alpha declares, the unseemly, otherworldly color flaring to life once more around her frame. "Though you did not repair my systems, you have saved me from distraction. I...this is agreeable."

"I'll keep my word." You say.

"And I shall keep mine." Alpha responds in kind. "Prime crafted me in her image. 'Untruths are anathema to discovery'...this is a thing she said often when she fixed the Proxies. She was fond of that saying, I think. So I will keep my promise - this is a thing you can trust."

"Okay." You say, swallowing hard. "I...hope you discover a great deal, then."

(Continued)
>>
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>>4211589

The light flares, she nods, and you watch as her body twists, snapping almost in half as her form contorts into a narrow, jet-like shape. Spurs of bone erupt from beneath her cloak, her limbs refashioned into makeshift wings as the ground erupts with billowing heat and riotous color. A flare of both, and she's off, tearing through the skies in search of a master that's left her far behind.

A tool discarded with inconceivable negligence.

Another breeze, another breath...and you feel like your legs are going to give way. Your hands are shaking as you struggle for breath, and with a flicker of lighting and a blur of scarlet, you're surrounded by friends and family alike. Amara's arms are around your waist in an instant, with Rath's following a split-second later as the pair support you on either side.

"Bullshit!" Jackie barks with laughter, walking up and clapping you on the shoulder with enough force to knock you down if you didn't have Rath on your side. "Here I was striding into 'Nam when I should've grabbed some popcorn for Doctor Phil!"

"Fucking hate that show." Quinn mutters, hands on her hips as she paces out the stress that's practically written all over her face. "Dude creeped me the hell out, but...goddamn, did all that really just happen?"

"Yes...yes, it did." Francine mutters, eyes wide and fingers on her chin as she glances betwee you, the Cores, and back again. "I was not...that was not at all what I imagined Alpha to be. She's-"

"Lost." Bella supplies under her breath, barely audible over the crowd of relieved voices.

Gina fights her way through them and to your waiting arms, and you just hold her for a long moment as the voices around you fade, your heart still hammering away in your ears.

"Did...did I fuck this up?" You ask, just loud enough for her to hear.

"Maybe." She admits, leaning back to fix you with that soft, kind smile of hers. "But you did the right thing, Shu...fuck-ups be damned, you did the right thing."

"Aw, damn it." You hear Rosa groan to your right. "I should've asked for her aut-"

She's cut off when Sia's fist sharply collides with her shoulder, a yelp of surprise prompting a round of laughter from the Midnight Crew...and even as they laugh, you can't help but realize just how close you came to the brink. This wouldn't have been a brawl. It would have been no even fight, no closely-matched melee.

This would have been mutually assured destruction, had you come to blows with the girl that West Prime twisted into a thing of horror.

But now? She's gone. Everyone's alright.

And just as Alpha's chosen her path, it's up to you to choose yours.

>>Head back to ba-...no. Head back home. Your *real* home. [Return to the Dragon's Roost and move back in]

>>You...you need a minute. Take a walk with one or two of your allies, just to get out the residual shakes from what you've just done.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
>>4211609
>You...you need a minute. Take a walk with one or two of your allies, just to get out the residual shakes from what you've just done.

>"Ladies, I need about five minutes for all of this to sink it in, because what I just did was basically the equivalent of the Crucible's Cuban Missile Crisis negotiations with a walking Nuclear weapon who simply wanted directions to go home.
>"I really need those five minutes. Please.
>Your legs collapse and you just sit there just to let your body got through the shakes.

Jesus fuck we need a minute.
You have no idea how tense this encounter made me.
>>
>>4211609
>Call up Orwell.
>"Orwell? time to shine. first live message from Shu, all yours to claim."
>After Orwell gets things setup, give your message. short and simple as it is.
>"This is Shu. the Defiant. Hunter of Gods. The message is simple. Leave West Alpha Alone. If you do not attack her, she will not attack you. Simple as that. Im not asking you to forgive her, or forget what she has been apart of, however, without West Prime to pull her strings... shes harmless, so long as you do not force her hand. She is no more the mastermind behind her past actions as a trained dog is for its master. a Tool discarded, so for better or worse... lets let it be discarded, instead of seeing what happens if we keep kicking it til it activates again."

>Once that is over with, look around you, at everyone, friends and family alike.
>"...thank you. all of you. I know it didn't turn out how you thought it would, and it may not of been the best decision... but you still risked it all, and you still all trusted me with this decision. I owe, all of you, more than i could ever repay for even asking this of you, let alone seeing you stand by expecting death in a moments notice... thank you all, truly. and Midnight Crew, Barbers? seriously. you've racked up my debt with you beyond imagine, im gonna start taking it as a personal insult if you dont start trying ot cash in on it."
>Chuckle, then look at all of them.
>"Now... can we go home? our REAL home..."
>Then blush.
>"...and if our friends wouldn't mind, we could use some help moving our stuff back in...."

also damnit, i wanted to give Alpha a Fuzzbuzz pin so she could show off our deal status. ah well, such is how things go.
>>
>>4211055
(Oh, I somehow missed this earlier - whenever you read this, then I hope you slept well, Anon.)
>>
>>4211635
The livestream would be more than enough proof since Orwell did a world-wide broadcast.

Also, I can't help but have a hunch that if we had suggested it, the proposal would've been shot down because we were very much uncertain of Alpha's reactions.

However, I'm not sure if Alpha is partial to receiving mail.
>>
I've been having connection problems since 4:00 PM, finally getting back online. What did I miss? From a quick glance, it looks like we convinced Alpha to cripple her stats and give us a self-destruct button for her? Am I reading that right?
>>
>>4211648
doesn't matter if Orwell livestreamed it. we gave Alpha our word we would still give official, full messaged affirmation of us backing up her choice. a non direct far off shot of our backside is not at all that or good enough to claim as that.
>>
>>4211651
not really no. take your time, best read than explained.
>>
>>4211314
(Also, the shuffling went wonderfully. Mrs. BHOP and I are quite pleased, and I now have a dedicated writing corner to use instead of hunching on the couch like a hobgoblin.)
>>
>>4211665
...wait... have you been.... doing all this on a half broken laptop... AND not a table!?

BHOP!
seriously!
what the fuck?
>>
>>4211671
(...yes.)
>>
>>4211656
Okay, we did talk her into giving up a fair bit of her power, but I misread the cores being a self-destruct mechanism. They'll self-destruct, if we mishandle them. Ah, I see, misread in my haste to catch up. Well, this is stressful. Alpha is eliminated as a threat for now, but there's still risks involved with her, and it's giving me some anxiety. The thing I was looking forward to about a fight with Alpha, even if it was a nightmare to dread, was that it would bring some finality to this situation. I guess we just have to trust that we made the right choice, for now. Here's hoping that if she does become a threat, we'll be able to bring together all the aid we had slated for this fight again.
>>
>>4211676
I'm both impressed and horrified by this.
>>
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>>4211679
Alpha gave us half of her Forge cores (basically half of her power source), which are two T-5 Forge cores that are stuck together and requires to be stay stuck together for the sake of safety. Otherwise, you have two Nukes simultaneously exploding within minutes of separating. Basically double the explosive yield of November's self-destruct system.

Although that begs the question: How the fuck did Prime manage to MacGuyver/SCIENCE! Forge Cores into fusing together and behaving like supersized Atom that explodes with the force of NUKES if they're separated?
I swear, the imagery is making me imagine Forge Cores as the building blocks of an Atom.

>>4211665
>half-Broken brick of a chromebook that can't use chrome
>no table, only chair.
>hunched over like a goblin in a cave
>His notes for the powersets of the Crucible world is decided by shuffling a deck of note cards and drawing from it.
Truly, Bhop's power comes from the arcane and eldritch.
Pic. related comes to mind.
>>
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>>4211676
...you must just like self torture BHOP, there is no other explanation. your wife must either be the happiest or most worried woman on earth over that, depending on the time of day...
im not sure you deserve this wonderful Mothra/Lara picture, but here it is.

>>4211679
well, we didn't specifically talk her into lowering her stats is why i said no, it was more of just a side-effect of things.

and yeah, i wasn't looking forward to the fight but... one way or another, it would have put the issue at rest? now though? who really knows where it will go, good or bad...
>>
>>4211637
So what's the voting time for this update?
>>
>>4211687
(Mrs. BHOP has declared that this picture bears an uncanny resemblance to me, and that's perhaps the greatest compliment I could receive as an aspiring cryptid.)
>>
>>4211687
>Although that begs the question: How the fuck did Prime manage to MacGuyver/SCIENCE! Forge Cores into fusing together and behaving like supersized Atom that explodes with the force of NUKES if they're separated?
I'm guessing it's that sci-fi trope of synchronized reactors, where they produce a lot more power than two reactors could on their own, but their outputs have to be carefully balanced with each other or else they destabilize and explode. Like the Twin GN Drive, from Gundam 00.
>>
>>4211697
(Huh, 4chan at my post, it seems. Here's what I wrote.)

(Gentlemen, I shall be pausing here for the evening. Voting shall remain open for the next twelve hours, with posting to resume in approximately fourteen, give or take as work demands. Thank you all for your time, participation, patience, and enthusiasm, and I do hope everyone has a pleasant evening. Rest well, dream wonderfully, and I'll see you all tomorrow.)
>>
>>4211699
Well aren't you a handsome creature. You should make that as one of your signature pictures when you make OOC posts.

Also, Hello Mrs. Bhop! Enjoying your husband's grand creation and the works that we've created in inspiration?
>>
>>4211687
Tier 4s.
and i have strong suspicions they dont work exactly the same as before. we'll have to have Francine and Tinker study them, both to get use out of them... and incase we need to understand West Alphas main cores more if she does end up back in Primes paws....
>>
>>4211702
Thanks for running, BHOP. See you tomorrow.
>>
>>4211702
well i do hope you enjoy your night.

in all honesty, how close did we get to a fight, and where was the closest moment?
>>
So what do we do with Murphy's Mandate and Pilfering Palm, now? Do we just hang onto them just in case we do have to fight Alpha in the future? I guess we could put them into Goregrowth Boxes.
>>
>>4211714
eh, at least Muphys has use against Constructs, so we can keep that for now, but just not level it. treat it as an awkward augment... or even, use that bottle of General Generators we have to see if we cant make it INTO an augment version or something, save us the trouble of people trying to level it up at all.

as for Pilfers... eh. its useful, even super useful, but not so much i think even against Alpha is loss wouldn't be filled by the time we face her again. i guess we could try turning it into an augment too, but i dont think its worth leveling, or taking up our Goregrowth Box either.

and yes, i am making assumptions on the sauce, but hey, maybe it can just work that way, or maybe Tinker can tinker with it or something. worth looking into i think.
>>
>>4211705
(She's thoroughly enjoying it, and know that while she tends to avoid the body horror, I've kept her up-to-date with not only my own writings, but all of yours as well. Rest assured, she enjoys them thoroughly.)

>>4211709
(My pleasure, and rest well.)

>>4211713
(The closest you came to conflict was then you flat-out told her that you were not going to help her. If you hadn't softened that blow with literally everything around it, then she'd have gone off and combat would've started right then and there with her hurtling towards your face. Make no mistake; part of the reason I stressed for you to prepare is because I'd run almost a dozen simulations of this fight during the course of balancing it...it's what I spent most of last week doing, in fact. The results were, as a whole, sobering. If this had turned out with something close to the average survival rate, then you'd be walking away with around six participants standing, at best.
>>
>>4211727
(...as a grim aside, I realize that combat would've resulted in considerably less book-keeping for everyone involved, but that's probably not the best solution to that particular problem, is it?)
>>
>>4211707
Given the fact that those two cores were the ones that Alpha clearly felt comfortable ripping out, you may be right, but we will need to examine what properties and behaviors they exhibit.

>>4211714
We'll have to keep them for now as lvl 1 powers for now. And we only have one GoreGrowth Box. They'll still pull plenty of mileage just as their base powers due to the properties they exhibit if we are to go into combat.

Now that's said, we gotta deal with the next thing off our list while putting a pin on West Alpha's whereabouts and intentions going forward should she actually find Prime's base.

Let's see here...the next thing on our list prior to the whole shit getting sidetracked by Magpie's misinformation campaign, our hurried plans of dismantling the Prime West Skynet and putting up a Proxy Discord network as a substitute...then doing the Cuban Missile Crisis Negotiations with West Alpha....

We've got as far as I could remember...plans to watch the Disassociated Ones Launch their BLAME! Rocket into Space, which is a couple of days (or maybe a few days?) away.

And...

We owe Jackie a 1v1 Duel, and have plans to talk to her about the whole leadership thing due to us accidentally eavesdropping onto her doubts and hangups with lvl 15 empathy.

>>4211730
>>4211727
Jesus fuck Bhop. This really was the the Crucible equivalent of the Cuban Missile Crisis.
>>
>>4211727
That bad odds, really? Damn. I was expecting to lose some people, but more than half? Well, I guess it's a good thing we don't have to deal with this fight now.

>>4211730
Ha. Ha.
>>
>>4211727
I do have a question bhop, one of our options in our write-up was to give Alpha the option to have her find a way to connect with the Skinternet or with the Proxy Discord Channel. Why was that glossed over?
>>
>>4211727
>less than half remaining at best.
whew, no that is not at all the solution we were looking for, my god. but... we knew what might happen, when we chose to face her. it would've been a gut blow im not sure id fully recover from, but one i could accept given we knew fully well this was not a fight we were gonna just win through pure combat alone.

also, you may of missed an image i posted a few posts up. not one i think you'll want to either, considering your tastes.

>>4211733
my current list of things on Shus list is;

*not in order of importance per section.*
Major;
>Continue Progress Westward.
>Track/Assess/Deal with the 3 Crucible Defenders.

Secondary;
>Visit the Altar Separatists.
>Inspect the nine other Settlements.
>Talk to Jackie.
>Visit Charon and the Cult.
>Visit Olympus Mons.
>Check in on and Defeat/Ally with Daughters of note;
>>( ‘Nothing’ Girl, ‘Everything’ Girl, Hive Girl, UP Girl, Neuro Girl, Sound Girl.)

Other;
>Watch/Assist the DOs launch(On Countdown).
>Visit the Ikean Fortress, New Pergamum, and Port of Ariel
>Pre-Construct your other Dream Daughters their Spiritus Shells.
>Get November some damn Relic Options.

the DOs isnt our to decide on, and i think should still be at least a day or two out IC.
Jackie? eh. yes we owe her the fight, but while im not saying we put much infront of her, id hope she could understand us not wanting to jump from a death-fight into something like that.

or well, its Jackie, so maybe not, but still.
>>
>>4211721
>>4211733
If we had an extra Goregrowth Box I'd like to put Pilferer's Palm into that. That's an interesting power, I'd like to see where it goes. But yeah, I guess we can just leave them for now, hold off on leveling them further until we learn if they're needed.

>>4211733
Well, if we don't have Alpha to deal with right now, then our list of goals is:

>Have an interview with Orwell to repay her for her assistance.

>Duel Jackie to repay her for her assistance.

>Track down the Gemma alter that was at the Altar, to repay Sia for her assistance (and also to help the Gemma in Julia's brain).

>Figure out what the deal was with Magpie, ideally find whatever notes she took from the Lair.

>Watch the Disassociated fly into space, hopefully not have to fight any flying Amalgams trying to stop them from launching.

>Figure out how to stop the Apocalypse-class Amalgams.

>Learn more about the foreign Daughters and the sealed Daughters that Ozmas released.

>As always, continue West towards the Cord.
>>
>>4211742
(...I'm going to be completely honest, I think that it was lost in the shuffle. I am terribly sorry, though rest assured that given what you've just done, she'll have no shortage of Proxies reaching out to her, along with others.)

>>4211743
(I am a fool for missing such a fantastic image of Mothra. An excellent post, thank you for sharing.)
>>
>>4211752
>Alpha will have her sibling proxies reaching out to her.
>Other daughters will also be reaching out to her.

On one hand, there's a certain degree of wholesomeness at the thought of seeing this lonely lost Nuclear child finally getting in touch with her siblings and other people after many months of knowing only her Mother/creator.

On the other hand, I worry for Alpha and for the others.
>>
>>4211752
hmm... will be one hell of a dice roll to see if she goes with a good or bad option there... or just ignores all of them, but i dont think she will ah well, hopefully needing to stick to her word will at least make her logically keep away from the worst of the lot... she might even end up keeping a Proxy in line, Alpha certainly showed enough ability to think to know letting a Proxy do her dirty work would not be a 'work around' we would let slide, so she might actually prevent any helping her from going too far.

...but even then, any helping her may still cause issues, or lead her to the thing we hope she never finds... and not necessarily through Primes Home...
>>
>>4211759
>>4211763
It would be so satisfying if it works out, though. West Prime seeing all these copies of herself be perfectly normal people if given the chance, no sociopathic tendencies or at least nothing that they can't manage with socialization. The only thing wrong with you, Prime, is that you're the one being you. Anyone else being you has a much better time of it. It would be delightful schadenfreude.
>>
>>4211770
im just hoping at least one Proxy reaches out to her with full intent to help her be a 'real' person again, in the sense of trying to get her to let go of her connection to West Prime and steer her onto a better path... but im not crossing my fingers either, as i have a sad feeling even if one tries, they'll not go about it smartly and/or be outplayed by a less well meaning one.
>>
Holy shit I finally caught up, and I'm met with THIS. BHOP your quest is equal parts brilliant lovable story and Daughter-eating-madness-inducing stress. I love it.
>>
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>>4211830
ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

welcum bak.

pic related this must be you racing to catch up right?
>>
>>4211830
(Very glad to have you, and I'm so glad you've enjoyed it thus far. I'm very much so looking forward to where things are going from here, and between new faces, new threats, and new locales, there's a lot more coming. Thanks for speaking up, Anon!)

>>4211835
(I love that gif.)
>>
>>4211830
Yeah, things got wild, didn't they? BHOP is good at this. Totally ruined me for other quests.
>>
>>4211835
Absofuckinlutely, man.
Also, I'm not much of a writefriend, but this and all the fanwrites have me wanting to make an actual story with this setting. Unfortunately, my memory is poor and my attention span is brief, so I forget most of the finer details. Currently I plan on looking back to see just how much an Unnatural Predator is capable of, body mutation wise.

But that aside, my love for the canonical story here is still going strong. I'd vote on suptg but for some reason it thinks these threads don't exist there.
>>
>>4211830
glad to see ya caught up.

>>4211836
yeah, looking forward to seeing what we can do without this hanging over us aswell.
and with where you take the system from here too. wont lie, how to fix it is something ive been thinking about a bit, though the biggest hurtle isnt how to improve the system per say, but how to improve it in relation to the issues of it already being in use...

>>4211849
hey man, you cant improve in writing if you dont try. as for UPs, they can go 100% full beast. like, cant tell them apart from Amalgams full on. technically its possible to get that corrupted even without UP abilities over time, but, obviously, UPs do it alot faster and with their signature animal traits.
>>
>>4211855
Fair, I just tend to get caught up in my lengthy schedule of do nothing, play vidya or sleep.

On another note, that's actually exactly what I hoped for. But the cost is super Hunger generation, if I recall.
>>
>>4211862
those who embody the aspect of the beast must take great pains to distinguish themselves from the wild animals the imitate, lest they be mistaken for a wild animal themselves.
>>
>>4211862
not sure if super, but yeah, more susceptible to Hunger.

here, Wests notes.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/10tiCL66515aiM-cooxe2x-B4GL_wOvx1AXa1t8woWUI/edit?usp=sharing
has a rundown on classes and some other info in there.
and still supposedly according to BHOP, not all the notes have in them we got from her, but ah, its been like 30+ viens since we got them, such is it a dead horse to even mention this.
>>
>>4211862
Hold up, let me get the section of West's notes on them.

>--UNNATURAL PREDATOR--

>>Strengths: Vicious and capable survivors, this class allows the user to become an apex hunter of Amalgams, assimilating their powers to become something utterly unique among Daughters. Boasts the highest HEALTH and BIO growth of any class.

>>Weaknesses: Far more susceptible to the Hunger than other classes, as devouring Daughters does little to sustain their health or mental state, rendering them hunters of their own kind, in time.

>>Unique traits: Their Choice revolves around the Natural or Unnatural, allowing them to either tap into the powers of beings or concepts they were close to in their previous life, or becoming unfettered in their pursuit of the twisted Amalgams in the post-apocalypse. High-leveled Predators can often rival a Colossus-Level Amalgam, and may be indistinguishable from them, depending on how tightly they cling to their humanity.

So not exactly that they have more Hunger, but that they get reduced satiety from eating other Daughters. Unnatural Predators' focus on Amalgams makes me think they're best in the early Crucible. Lots of Amalgams to eat, few Daughters to contend with, lets them get a big leg up. But if they're not winning by now, they're at a disadvantage due to less prey.
>>
>>4211869
>>4211870
Thanks guys, sorry for having you both search through notes, but this helps a LOT. And not just with my... curiosity regarding UPs.
>>
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>>4211878
no problem. hope it gives ya some inspiration.
>>
>>4211878
Yeah, there are a couple classes with mechanics that are really neat but that we haven't really seen since we have no Core skills from them. Humoral Paladins with how they modify skills to meet their Humor's theme are another good example. I hope you get some good inspiration, I'd love to see what you do with Predators.
>>
>>4211849
(I'd love to see what you write, and I have to thank everyone here for swiftly supplying you with resources to get started. You're going to be seeing some more Unnatural Predators soon, but in advance of that - if you have any specific questions that aren't answered by the references the other Anons have supplied, then I'll be happy to address them. Good luck, and know that everyone sharing their art, music choices, and stories on here is one of my favorite things about running this Quest, to be sure.)
>>
>>4211870
>>4211869
I do wonder how Predator class daughters can survive into the lategame. Because it feels like if they are to survive, then they would need to integrate a vitruvian ability into their predator class core so they could wean themselves off of starving from the lack of amalgams.

This information will shed some light in a different perspective when it comes to some cast members in Carter's story.
>>
>>4211900
well, they can still get hunger sustenance from Daughters, and technically, finding higher level daughters to stave it off for longer would actually be easier later on. there also even in Shus era seems to still be a decent level of Amalgam-to-Daughters to hunt, albeit how much of that is also from the Daughter population having possibly dwindled and/or consolidated well... im not sure.
>>
>>4211637
Thanks OP

I did.

and i just have to say.... that Update.... whoa.... Lets just say it set my blood aflame in the first part. So thank you for helping me get over my morning sleepiness

>>4211727
So we came that close to learning what the businesses end of Raths nuclear powered fists look like eh. Well glad we did manage to avoid that fate

>>4211609
Supporting>>4211635
>>
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>>4208306
Ayy, it's back! Here, have a pixel Rath pre-Crucible.
>>
>>4212376
(Oh holy cow, that's awesome. Thank you for sharing!)
>>
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>>4211609

"Orwell?” You call out, catching the attention of the tall mop of blonde hair that’s standing just outside the group of Daughters that surround you. “Time to shine. First live message from Shu, all yours to claim."

The teen’s construct jolts to attention and promptly shuffles over to your side, a myriad of pale, milky eyes emerging from between the strands of flaxen hair as Orwell breathlessly declares; “R-ready when you are!”

Glancing around, you clear your throat as your friends and family try to give you space…and you’ll have none of that. Ushering them closer takes a bit of work, but soon Orwell has everyone in frame, though the more camera-shy among them stick to the back, such as Keane and Betty. Clearing your throat, you give a quick nod of assent to the Skinternet star that’s got you in her sights, and when she makes a motion with one braided limb, you speak.

"This is Shu. The Defiant. Hunter of Gods. The message is simple.” You begin, your tone leaving no room for argument or error. “Leave West Alpha Alone. If you do not attack her, she will not attack you. Simple as that. I’m not asking you to forgive her, or forget what she has been a part of - however, without West Prime to pull her strings she’s harmless, so long as you do not force her hand. She is no more the mastermind behind her past actions as a trained dog is for its master. A tool discarded, so for better or worse...so let’s let it be discarded, instead of seeing what happens if we keep kicking it until it activates again. That’s all.”

Orwell’s eyes shutter closed, the interwoven strands that make up one hand giving you an enthusiastic thumbs’ up that you return, before turning to your assembled allies. "...Thank you. All of you. I know it didn't turn out how you thought it would, and it may not have been the best decision, but you still risked it all and trusted me with this decision. I owe, all of you, more than I could ever repay for even asking this of you, let alone seeing you stand by expecting death in a moment’s notice. Thank you all, truly.”

“Hey, don’t mention it. In the words of my favorite little ninja…” Rath grins, ruffling Amara’s hair as the younger girl giggles. “…who the hell do you think we are?”

“The best family a girl could as for, that’s who.” You fire back with a smile. “And Midnight Crew, Barbers? Seriously. You’ve racked up my debt with you beyond imagine. I’m gonna start taking it as a personal insult if you dont start trying to cash in on it."

“You still owe me a duel.” Jackie smirks, backtracking a bit when Quinn shoots her a withering sideways glare. “…but that can totally wait. No pressure.”

Sensing a presence at your side, you glance down to find that a single eye is peeking out from the blonde hair of Orwell’s hastily-made construct, a puppy-dog look if you’ve ever seen one.

“…Interview?” She asks meekly.

(Continued)
>>
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>>4212555

“Ha, yeah, you’ve been waiting for that one a while, huh?” You amusedly mutter, glancing back to the rest of your friends and family. "Now...can we go home? To our REAL home?"

The second the words are out of your mouth, you realize that moving back in might not be as quick a task as you’d hope...so you can’t help but blush as you quickly add; "...and if our friends wouldn't mind, maybe we could have some help?"

“Considering that we came out here to have a life-or-death struggle with a nuclear-powered Arnold Schwarzenegger, I’d say helping a friend move isn’t that bad of a compromise.” Sia says, folding her arms and placing her weight on one leg. “So yeah, we’ll definitely help y’all ou-”

“RACHEL SERENITY NEESON!” November suddenly roars, making Julia nearly jump out of her skin if she had any to spare in the first place.

You whirl around to find Rath frozen, bent double over the twin Forge Cores and looking like freckled deer in the headlights.

“Darling, as much as I appreciate your scientific enthusiasm - and believe me, I truly do.” Francine says gingerly, quickly striding over to Rath’s side. “Perhaps I should have a look at these before we attempt to move them, hm?”

“Y-yeah, that’s…yep.” The younger girl mumbles, taking two judicious steps back and over to Gina’s side as her cheeks begin to radiate a white-hot glow. “Sorry.”

Francine stoops over to inspect the Cores, while Gina’s just wearing a wide grin and staring at Rath, the latter of whom only blushes harder as she tries to avoid the other girl’s gaze.

“So.” Gina finally breaks. “Rachel SERE-?“

“Don’t say it, don’t even think it. Not another goddamn word ‘outta you or you’re gettin’ a fist upside the boob.” Rath snarls, irritably folding her arms and shooting her aunt a dirty look, one that the older woman’s oblivious to as she’s beckoned over to the good doctor’s side.

Many hands prove to make light work of the move, and thanks to everyone’s combined effort and some clever use of Escher’s Gear, within an hour or two your home is set back to rights. As you stare out the massive windows you spy Francine and November in the ramshackle town below, turning one of the larger shacks into a temporary lab to verify the safety of Alpha’s gift to you, with a gaggle of Joyous lending their assistance. Glancing over one shoulder, you see the rest of your family’s made themselves rightly at home once more, with the Crew and Barbers engaging one another in amicable conversation.

It’s not how you expected this day to go…but it’s a welcome surprise, regardless.

>>Jackie’s waiting on that duel…may as well do it now, before everyone parts ways.

>>You may as well meet up with Orwell and give her that interview she’s dying to have.

>>Say your goodbyes to the Crew and the Barbers, and turn your attentions to one of the many items on your agenda.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open for the next four hours, and I do hope your day is going well.)
>>
>>4212558
>Jackie’s waiting on that duel…may as well do it now, before everyone parts ways.

Well. it wouldn't be an anticipated combat vein unless we actually had combat.

We seriously need to talk to Jackie about the leadership hangups.

>>4212562
Also. Bhop. I found this pic on the boorus. The actual site has translated moon runes, but the story is so well designed that it still conveys the horror without it.
Here's the link to the boorus with all images related.

https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/3776358?q=arai-san_mansion
>>
>>4212558
>RACHEL SERENITY NEESON!
>>Serenity..........

That is not a second name i would have associated with Rath to be honest

>>4212558
>>Jackie’s waiting on that duel…may as well do it now, before everyone parts ways.
>Put down a few ground rules first though
>1. Fighting till one fighter is either immobilized or has less than half their health remaining after regen.
>2. we fight in a specified ring with neutral terrain. leaving the ring will be the same as forefitting the fight.
>3. Afterwards we have a chat and a drink together


I think we should go ahead and get this over with.
>>
>>4212558
>You may as well meet up with Orwell and give her that interview she’s dying to have.

>>4212571
>>4212574
lets just... not have that right after we just avoided a basically guaranteed death fight?
>>
>>4212588
while we can do that.... what guarantee do we have that Jackie will not have a breakdown because we did not make good on our promise and then had a good talk about it afterwards.

I can see why..... and as much as i would like to say we could make this just a cutscene for the AI it will probably still involve our input.....

I am a bit torn now.... And Orwell does deserve a treat after what she has done for us....
>>
>>4212597
well, im assuming with Orwell, we will still have a bit of time afterward to talk to the Barbers and/or Midnight Crew, as that and the Jackie option doesn't say to tell them goodbye.

so, my thought was more, get Orwells interview done with, then talk to Jackie.
...well, ok, my actual thought was to use the move-in time or something for that a bit, but BHOP sped through that(understandably), so this is my thoughts instead.

still think rushing into another battle after all that is just not what Shu needs. hell id argue even Jackie actually probably doesn't need it, regardless of if she wants it.
>>
>>4212558
Ammending my vote from >>4212574
to
>>You may as well meet up with Orwell and give her that interview she’s dying to have.
>Ask Orwell to give you the list of questions for the interview so you can think about the answers you want to give a bit beforehand and wont stammer yourself through the interview and disappoint her viewers
>Tell Jackie that you will be available immediately afterwards if she wants that duel as close to now as possible.
>>
>>4212616
>>4212597
i may of worded that poorly, but by talk i meant talk.
i was trying to say if you're worried about Jackie, we can simply talk to her about some things before she leaves, hopefully. not duel her.

>>4212616
>>4212571
which i very much have to say, i thought we all wanted to talk to her about stuff before the duel anyways? i very much thought we all agreed the duel was a bad idea without first at least poking at why she wants it, as the very reason she wants the duel could make doing it dubious for her mental health?
>>
>>4212624
We should still say that we are available so she sticks around. Since the setting up for a fair duel will take at least a bit we can have our little talk with her then.

I honestly have to say i only remember us wanting to talk to her nothing about us talking to her before or after. So i will take your word for it that we wanted to do it before the duel. Which i will then fully support but and for that to work in a timely manner we need her to stay and not run off because she has bees in her ass for wanting something to do.
>>
>>4212571
>>4212558
changing my vote to

>You may as well meet up with Orwell and give her that interview she’s dying to have.
>Tell Jackie that you're going to be immediately available after the interview.
>>
>>4212641
I just really dont want to commit to the Duel right now, which saying that, would, well, do.

fuck it.

>>4212558
>>4212588
Amending Vote;
>while shes here, and everyone's unwinding, try and pull Jackie aside for some one-on-one talk.
>"Sorry im not up for a Duel just this second but... Im not sure beating up a friend is what im up for, given what just almost happened, and you deserve my head to be in it if we're gonna do that."
>Raise an eyebrow. "Unless thats exactly the type of advantage you're looking to exploit?"
>"Speaking of... why DO you want this so much Jackie?"
>"Im not dense Jackie. well... not that dense. I can tell its not just cause you like a good show, or even just your competitive nature... so why is this so important to you?"
>"You have nothing to prove, and neither do I. We're all friends, and neither one of us would be standing here if it wasn't for our families backing us up."
>Chuckle. "Honestly? Id be nothing without them, both in or outside of combat... so ill admit, maybe im just looking at this differently, as i just dont see the point of it. aside from giving them entertainment of course."
>>
>>4212558
Amending vote from >>4212616
to support>>4212658

That is a good write-in i have to say
>>
>>4212558
>“Don’t say it, don’t even think it. Not another goddamn word ‘outta you or you’re gettin’ a fist upside the boob.” Rath snarls, irritably folding her arms and shooting her aunt a dirty look, one that the older woman’s oblivious to as she’s beckoned over to the good doctor’s side.
Aww, but it's a cute name! Is that why you're going by "Rath", since it's the opposite of serenity?
>>
>>4212558
Oh, since I forgot

Supporting >>4212658
>>
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>>4212558

“Hey Jackie, can I borrow you for a sec?”

Having walked up to the leader of the Midnight Crew and given both Crew and Barbers pause, the sharply-dressed girl gives her friends a sharp salute before allowing you to lead her back over to the windows that look out over the vastness of the Fleshscape.

“This about the duel? Look, Shu…it can wait. Seriously.” Jackie starts, beating you to the punch. “I know we had that little fashion show, but if you need to chill for a hot minute after that stunt you just pulled off, then I'm not going to bust your balls over it, alright?"

"Sorry I’m not up for it just this second but...I’m not sure beating up a friend is what I'm up for, given what just almost happened, and you deserve my head to be in it if we're gonna do that." You explain, cocking an eyebrow before adding. "Unless that’s exactly the type of advantage you're looking to exploit?"

"Ha, no, fuck that. I want you at the top of your game! The best of you versus the best of me." She cackles, that razor-sharp grin of hers bloodthirsty and charming, all at once.

"Speaking of... why DO you want this so much Jackie? I'm not dense...well, not *that* dense." You amend, the hasty addendum prompting a snort of amusement from the dark-hared girl beside you despite her suspicious eyes. "I can tell it’s not just cause you like a good show, or even just your competitive nature...so why is this so important to you?"

"What can I say? I like a good scrap." She answers breezily, shrugging her narrow shoulders. "I'm good at it, and butting heads with people on my level shows me where I'm at."

"You...you know you have nothing to prove, right? I sure don't. We're all friends, and neither one of us would be standing here if it wasn't for our families backing us up." You admit with a small chuckle. "Honestly? I’d be nothing without them, both in or outside of combat...so I’ll admit, maybe I'm just looking at this differently. I just don't see the point of it, aside from giving them entertainment of course."

"It's not about proving anything to anyone. Except myself, maybe." Jackie murmurs thoughtfully as she stares out at the rusted town below, leaning one dagger-sharp elbow against the humoral crystal-glass. "The Crew...I know they think of me as their leader, but they're the ones that kept me going in that crypt of a sick ward. Place was like a goddamn mausoleum. Nights were...they fucking sucked, Shu. Those three say that I'm the one that kept 'em sane, but they're the ones that made life worth living."

You open your mouth to reply only to find Jackie's slender index finger pressed to your lips, a knowing smirk on her own.

"And that's just about all you're getting out of me, Mrs. Psychiatrist." She grins, withdrawing her hand to rest it on the hilt of the blade buried in her sternum. "You worry about you and yours, I'll worry about me and mine - we've both got out hands full enough as-is, wouldn't you say?

(Continued)
>>
>>4212920

"I'd say I'm more like a psychologist, actually - psychiatrists are the ones that're licensed to give out meds." You inform her, a FuzzBuzz crawling from your hive and onto your shoulder as Jackie just rolls her eyes. "Unless you count this little guy as a supplement?"

"Psh, maybe Doctor Fran down there can help me out, give me some of the good shit." The other girl counters, nodding to where your resident physician is directing a gaggle of Joyous, with one of them curiously perched atop the good doctor's shoulders as she gestures to a nearby shack. "I'm sure she'd wanna get that degree too, when this is all over. Gotta catch 'em all, am I right?"

"So where are you four headed after this?" You ask, opting to not press Jackie...at the moment. "Any big targets lined up?"

"Depends - what do you think of our odds against one of those Apocalypse Amalgams?"

"Holy shit, are you serious?" You sputter, and Jackie just gives you a self-satisfied smirk.

"Dead-ass serious. Gonna take a couple of jobs, maybe hit up Paloma to see if she's got some work lined up for some easy levels, and then see what we can do. Besides, the way I see it? Our odds of taking them down just got a whole hell of a lot more appealing."

"Why's that?"

"Simple, really..." She grins, tapping the glass as she stares down the mountainside. "...the Terminator just gifted you the Crucible's equivalent of a goddamn nuke. Make that *two* nukes, if we're feeling light on our feet and ballsy as fuck. And hey - taking out even one of those things'll stop stuff like what happened in Laoc...but that's a plan we'll hammer out another day."

She shrugs again, turning around to lean on the glass as she surveys the room, her roving gaze settling on you after a moment.

"Like I said after the Sprialing Fear - you're Crew, Shu. You're family. And if you want to thank me like you said earlier, then you'll give us a call when you need the big guns, and we'll sure as hell do the same."

To your pleasant surprise Jackie reaches out, placing a hand on your shoulder with a gentle squeeze and an even softer smile. It's a thing that's so at odds with her usual demeanor that it'd be almost unsettling, if you didn't see feel just how genuine she's being in this quiet moment, with just the two of you.

"I got your back, dude." She says earnestly, her other hand reaching up ad petting your swarmling's fuzzy down. "And don't you dare forget it."

>>You'll take it under consideration...but for right now, you'll say your goodbyes to Crew and Barbers both as you focus on what's next on your plate.

>>You'd like to shelve that plan for now, and maybe see if Jackie would be willing to loop back to the earlier part of the conversation.

>>While you respect Jackie's obvious unwillingness to delve into deeper matters, there is one or two things you'd like to bring up to her before she takes her leave.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open for the next four hours.)
>>
>>4212922
hrm, well was worth a try, and at least she was willing to hint there was indeed more too it. not what we wanted but also more than she had to give us too.

i've got nothing more to pry from her, but if others do, ill swap votes, but for now...

>"And we have yours." return the gesture with your own hand on her shoulders, and your own smile.
>"...as for the cores though? lets let those with a bit of brains upstairs figure them out first, before we decide if its worth sacrificing them for that. Gotta say though, taking down even just one of those Behemoths would be a great help to everyone, not just us, so If you think you can... its appreciated. just dont be afraid to call for backup, alright?"

>Let things gradually wane off, then Call up Orwell. not only do you owe her a visit to your home and some of Julias tea, but an Interview aswell.
>>
>>4212922
>"And I got yours, Jackie"
>give her a return shoulder squeeze
>"I am here if you ever wanna talk. share the burden with someone who will not run her mouth. Or you can go ask Dr. Fran, she will be glad to help you as well"
>"Oh but before you go i have to know. Where did you get that blade of yours?"
>Say your goodbyes to the Barbers and the Crew
>>
>>4212927
i think prying more now would be quite rude of us.

>>4212922
Amendign votes from >>4212928
to
>"And I got yours, Jackie"
>give her a return shoulder squeeze
>"I am here if you ever wanna talk. share the burden with someone who will not run her mouth. Or you can go ask Dr. Fran, she will be glad to help you as well"
>"...as for the cores though? lets let those with a bit of brains upstairs figure them out first, before we decide if its worth sacrificing them for that. Gotta say though, taking down even just one of those Behemoths would be a great help to everyone, not just us, so If you think you can... its appreciated. just don't be afraid to call for backup, alright?
>"Oh but before you go i have to know. Where did you get that blade of yours?"
>Say your goodbyes to the Barbers and the Crew while calling up Orwell for that interview with Tea from Julia if she feels in the mood for making some.
>>
>>4212922
>"I'd say I'm more like a psychologist, actually - psychiatrists are the ones that're licensed to give out meds." You inform her, a FuzzBuzz crawling from your hive and onto your shoulder as Jackie just rolls her eyes. "Unless you count this little guy as a supplement?"
FuzzBuzzes are a schedule one controlled substance.

>>Write-In
>Throw an arm around her shoulders
>"And I got yours. Don't ever hesitate to call, if you need me."
>Just sit and enjoy each other's company, for a moment, before:
>"Oh! I just remembered something important to tell you. Sorry to not bring it up earlier, but we did have more immediate things to deal with. You know how my guns have a Hexane AI in them? She said that she doesn't recognize your sword. She thinks it's not Hexane, it's got more in common with technology like the Void Orrery. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, just...keep it in mind."
>>
>>4212922
>Clap a shoulder on Jackie
>Mirror that cocksure grin that Jackie always wore.
>"And I've got yours."
>>
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>>4212922

"And I've got yours." You echo with a smile, your hand giving Jackie's shoulder a friendly squeeze in return. "Now, as far as Cores go, let's let Francine tinker with those a bit before we decide if it's worth sacrificing them to blow up a kaiju. Gotta say though, taking down even just one of those Behemoths would be a great help to everyone, so if you think you can then it's greatly appreciated. Just don't be afraid to call for backup, alright?"

"Back at you, Defiant." Jackie grins, kicking off the window as she starts heading back to her friends...until you remember something you wanted to tell her, that is.

"Oh! Sorry to not bring this up earlier, but we did have more immediate things to deal with. So you know how my guns have a Hexane AI in them? Karma?" You say, prompting Jackie to turn on her heel and glance at the pistol on your hip.

"Yeah? What's up?"

"Karma said that she doesn't recognize your sword. She thinks it's not Hexane, and that it's got more in common with technology like the Void Orrery. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, so just...keep it in mind?"

"Huh...interesting." Jackie hums, tapping the hilt of her blade in thought. "I'll do just that, Defiant. Thanks for the tip."

Hugs and well-wishes are shared all around between your friends and family as they say their goodbyes, with the proceedings slowed a bit by Sia and Quinn having to fish Betty and Keane out of the FuzzBuzz pit, respectively. Once the Crew and Barbers have gone their separate ways, you're finally left with your family, as scattered about as they may be.

"Amara!" You call out across the living room, only for your ward to pop her head out from the pit, herself. "Think you could drop Orwell a line and tell her I'm ready for my close-up?"

"Oh, and t-tell her that I'll make some tea!" Julia adds excitedly from the bar, where Dorian's helping her re-stock the empty shelves as Amara jogs over to your side. Without question or prompting Amara holds out one arm, a sudden excess of flesh beginning to roil and slough from her bony limb and onto the ground in a formless slurry. A humanoid shape begins to form, and by the time you blink it's risen to match Amara's height, her features and copies of her clothes emerging from the construct as it opens its eyes anew.

"Hey! What's up?" It suddenly asks with the casual lilt of a girl twice Amara's age. "Wasn't expecting to hear from you for a while, figured I'd let you chill. Everything okay?"

"I wanted to say that I'm-"

You can barely get through a sentence before Amara's tightly-bottled fan-girling can't be held back any longer.

"Shu's super-ready for her interview and Aunt Julia's gonna make you the best tea in the world and then we can get in the Buzzpit and I'll show you my room and my drawings and my-!"

"Woah woah woah, hold up a tic!" Orwell laughs good-naturedly, glancing between you both in disbelief. "It's go time? You're up for an interview, for real?"

(Continued)
>>
>>4213392

"For real. And I don't know if you picked it out of Amara's run-down, but there's a cup of tea in it for you, too."

"I'd be honored!" Orwell excitedly replies, giving the sculptress a little wave.

"Do you need the coordinates to get here? If you'd rather not take a Waystation, I can have Dorian pick you up."

"It'd be my pleasure." He adds, almost making you jump when he appears at your side with a warm smile and a jolt of static. "It's the least I can do, truly."

"Ha, nah, I'm okay! I'd kind of like to stretch my legs a bit...y'know, now that I'm not running from Alpha." The teen chuckles.

"Will you be alright? I'd still be happy to escort you if you're so inclined." He insists with no small measure of concern. "It's no imposition, truly."

"Oh, I can take care of myself, Mister Gardner. I've felt better than I have in months!" Orwell grins, the Joyous construct flexing both hands as she turns to you. "And it's all thanks to your exclusive! Seriously, people are losing their ever-loving minds over how that turned out!"

"...In a good way, I hope?" You ask cautiously, and the construct looses an appropriately joyful laugh.

"In the *best* way! There are discussions hundreds of posts long, people are writing fics, Alpha's got a little fan club now, and there are, like...SO many memes. It's fantastically filling." She says, the Skintalker's excitement only serving to highlight how revitializing this entire thing has been for her...which makes sense, given her rather unusual skill set. "But yeah, I'll be over there in a little bit. I wanna get freshened up and go over my questions one last time before we do this thing. See you soon, Defiant!"

The construct's eyes glaze over once again as Orwell's consciousness leaves the doppelganger's body, and Amara swiftly leads it over to the FuzzBuzz pit with a simultaneous belly-flop. Glacing around the room, you take stock of who's where - Julia and Dorian busy themselves by the bar, talking in hushed and happy whispers while Rath's still in the Forge room, having ducked in alongside Tinker Tailor once everyone left. Gina's putting the finishing touches on the Engine, while your Dream Daughters are...nowhere to be found, apparently. Huh.

In surveying your home, you find your eyes drawn to your bedroom door across from where you now stand, its shadowed frame leading to a familiar space...wherein lies another passageway, one that links you to a hidden room.

One that holds empty shelves and the lingering scent of cigarettes...to Amara, at least.

You could know, you think to yourself. The answer to the mystery of a thieving crow is only a Buzz away...if the Dragoon is willing to share, that is.

>>You're home...in a place Mara once called her own. It's time you two had a talk.

>>Check in on Francine and November, and see what they've been able to come up with regarding the Cores.

>>Choose an ally to speak with until the Inquisition arrives.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, I shall be pausing here for the evening. Voting shall remain open for the next fourteen hours, with posting to resume shortly thereafter. I do hope everyone had a good day, and after having lost this entire update which was complete and ready to post as of two hours ago then I will begin aggressively saving for a new computer that won't crash on me starting next paycheck, so there's that. In any case, I wish everyone a pleasant evening, and I'll be around to address any questions, comments, or concerns you all might have. I welcome it all, and take care.)
>>
>>4213396
>take the time to relax, just a bit. No fighting may of happened with Alpha but... that doesn't mean it wasn't stressful as hell.
>spend some time with Gina, just chit-chatting, but slowly draw her towards the ballpit with your wandering.
>then, when she least expects it, grab her and pull both of you into the ballpit, and have some childish fun with Gina and Amara til Orwell shows up.
>>
>>4213400
>Bhop's finally looking for a new computer
about time. Don't forget to save all of those notes onto an external hard drive or a flash drive.
>>
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>>4213396
also, Inquisition? odd phrasing there BHOP.

>>4213400
oof, sorry to hear about the lost post, but to be fair, we told you you should get a new one awhile ago. pride before the fall, or something.

anyways, thanks for the session, and hope you have a splendid evening. im still not sure im fully believing how the whole Alpha thing turned out, but, it did. and hopefully it'll lead somewhere at least not terrible.
>>
>>4213414
(Oh, Orwell has questions. So, so many questions.)

>>4213414
>>4213412
(Regarding the computer, my wife and I have been aggressively saving and paying off debt for the past two years, so fancy new tech's largely taken a backseat. I'm looking forward to it, though.)
>>
>>4213414
(Also, since I didn't address your kind words in my last post - I hope that you have a pleasant evening, as well.)
>>
>>4213420
oh, well sorry you had to scrounge too badly, but glad it sounds like you've gotten over that hurtle.

>Oh, Orwell has questions. So, so many questions.
oh dear. only thing that might make that sound worse is if she does it live and shows off a live chatroom to us, then starts picking question out from the audience too.
>>
>>4213429
(Oh, she's not that cruel.)

(Usually.)
>>
>>4213400
Thanks for running, BHOP. Sorry to hear that you lost a post to a crash, that's always annoying when you lose writing that way.

>>4213420
Oh, well I'm glad that you currently have enough income that you can save up for an upgrade. That's nice.

>>4213429
I just had a horrifying idea: Twitch Plays Crucible. A Neuromancy/Skintalker/Phantasmal Conduit skill that lets the user create constructs controlled by consensus inputs from an entire Skinternet chat room.
>>
>>4213433
guess being nice to her has paid off then.

>>4213436
thats... an interesting idea yeah. not sure its really horrifying, so long as its just constructs, but certainly would be interesting to see. cant see it lasting long though unless its a Queen type Construct.
>>
>>4213447
>thats... an interesting idea yeah. not sure its really horrifying, so long as its just constructs, but certainly would be interesting to see. cant see it lasting long though unless its a Queen type Construct.
It's more the thought of having to deal with a real physical entity that behaves like a Twitch Plays Pokemon player character. Luna Bonney would have some new competition.
>>
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>>4213457
yeah, i suppose i see it. guess we have just seen so much weird and more horrifying it just didn't even strike me at all as such.
>>
>>4213436
(That's a brilliant idea, and honestly something I'd love to explore.)

>>4213474
(This art is absolutely solid. Nicely done.)
>>
An update on Carter and the Town of Cradleton:

The last several days (I think), the muse has been given me lots of inspiration...on the wrong chapters (aka future chapters 6 and up) hence why despite current events, I haven't gotten Chapter 5 ready for publishing.

Still steadily hammering away at Chapter 5. It's shaping up fairly nicely and goes in line with the rest of the future chapters too.

I think I'm about 1/3 the way through chapter 5 in regards to filling in the details between the dialogue lines. With luck, chapter 5 should be done by the end of this weekend.

Pic related is probably my muse.
>>
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>>4213547
hey, progress is progress, even if not exactly in the right order.
>>
>>4213547
The important thing is to be working towards something. Don't worry, you're doing fine.
>>
>>4213396
>>Write-In
>Find our Dream Daughters, make sure they're okay. We're not trying to smother them, but if they're conspicuously absent it does give a bit of worry. Just check to make sure they're alright, if they want their privacy leave it at that.
>Afterwards, just spend some time relaxing with Gina. Maybe rope Amara into it, get some time with both our best girls.
>>
>>4213396
>her body is ready
this made me chuckle

>>4213400
I am sorry to hear that Money has been so tight. I would have offered my old computer, since i am getting a new one anyway. However by now it has so many things that need replacing and so much shit that i need to do to keep it running till i get my new one, that i would feel bad for my enemies having to deal with it.

>>4213396
Supporting>>4213406
>>
>>4213487
Oh yeah and OP. Could you add the way that target prioritization works, for untargeted Skintalker spells, to the Combat guide?
>>
(Gentlemen, thank you for your patience - it's proven to be a veritable Monday among Fridays, but I'll be wrapping up the post shortly after I deal with one or two more issues at work.)

>>4214242
(I'll be happy to, yes.)
>>
I have an idea. Unnatural Predators typically don't have the ability to revert or hide their mutations, right? Especially not the fuckhuge ones. So, what about a Relic that allows them to do exactly that? Doesn't have to be limited to UPs either, everyone experiences corruption. Just tossing an idea out there, wondering if BHOP thinks that's cool. My guess is it'd be a Tier 1 or 2 relic for simplicity and not much direct stat advantage.
>>
>>4214738
I'm way ahead of you anon.

I've already designed a relic that does that in the relics theorycraft gdoc called the Vitruvian Exo-skeleton
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b_-8s0tin7DCQxITm6C69QULRnM_ibDfg18iV4dc7Fc/edit#

>VITRUVIAN EXO-SKELETON: A skeleton in the shape of a perfectly physically fit human. The bones, cartilage, and spinal disks are bleached white and cannot be stained by blood or viscera. The skull is fractured into pieces yet whole. When worn, the Skeleton expands and morphs to wrap itself around the daughter and confines their physiological structure to fit the skeletal template of a homo sapien by any means necessary. Bestial features, corruption effects, and abilities that warp the body in inhuman ways are suppressed and restricted by the eldritch enforcement of Human bones that the daughter wears. Yet the exo-skeleton ensures protection to the daughter wearing it, providing immunity to limb severing effects, reducing bio cost required for certain abilities, and greatly increasing their health and bio regeneration. For ages, the human was a skeleton wearing a meat suit, who wished to be more than human. In an ironic twist of fate in the Crucible, wearing the skeleton suit over the malleable inhuman meat that is a daughter will give her the shape she sorely missed. The shape of a human.
>>
>>4214738
There's also plenty of other relics that deal with Crucible Corruption manifestation as well like:

"Ancient Bond Reforged" which expells all corruption into a manifestation of an amalgam attached to a collar.

and

"Shackles of Humanity" which is basically slave chains that forcibly depower the corruption as well as depower the crucible abilities.

You can find them in the relics doc.
>>
>>4214704
sorry to hear it, but its fine. allowed me to catch up on my sleep anyways.
>>
>>4213578
>>4213609
>>4214704
Speaking of Relics, I've designed a new one.

>“Andersen's Autobiographer”: Many tales and odysseys are left unsaid in the Crucible’s many iterations; thousand-fold unwritten stories are chronicled and lost in each cycle from lack of neither time nor effort devoted to immortalizing them into scripture and memory. This metallic plate framed by blood and bone seeks to fill in the void by chronicling the owner’s memoirs for them automatically. This works by implanting said plate into their body where the Autobiographer will then begin chronicling the memories and experiences of its host. The stories written by the autobiographer can also be read by another person...by also jamming the relic into their bodies, upon doing so the relic will allow the reader instant access to the memoirs written by the author, or by simply reading it like a book or a tablet. The stories that the relic pens down can be decided and edited at the owner’s discretion, but when the pen begins writing the sacred scripture of a story to the paper of its medium, that story is guaranteed to be immortalized throughout eons. Märchen Meines Lebens: A story just for you.

Note: Goddammit. My habit of writing Carter's story on a word doc has turned into muscle memory. It's hard to stop hitting Ctrl+s
>>
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>>4214770
not gonna lie to you, i have no strong feelings about that relic in any direction. its functional and not broken though, which I suppose is always a good thing.
>>
>>4214781
It works as a utility relic. Felt like something that I could put in as a filler to pad out the Relics doc. Probably good for lore pick-ups during exploration.

This relic will make an appearance in Carter's Story in the later chapters.
>>
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>>4213396

Resolving to set aside even a few short minutes to relax before Orwell arrives, you stride over to Gina’s side. “Hey. Are you busy, or do you have a sec to walk and talk?”

“For you? Always.” GG answers with a smile, hopping to her feet and starting to pace the perimeter of the Roost with you, fingers entwined with yours. She’s also the first to speak after a few moments of comfortable silence, catching her hazel eyes out of your corner of your vision. “I know we didn’t come to blows with Alpha, but it was still pretty stressful regardless…how’re you feeling, Shu?”

“Tired…just really freaking tired.” You say with a wry, weary laugh. “I’m starting to think that no matter how many drinking parties and fashion shows we put on, I’m still going to just be…I don’t know? Perpetually exhausted, maybe?”

“Eh, you call it perpetual exhaustion, I call it adulthood.” Gina fires back with a wink and a squeeze of her hand. “But yeah, that’s totally valid. I mean you’ve had that Hexane couple, then Sigma, then Magpie, then Alpha, all four of which were back-to-back…not to mention, y’know…literally *everything* else you’ve been bombarded with since day one. Face it, Shu – you’ve been through the wringer, and you’ve got every right to be fried.”

“…You know what? That’s fair.” You admit. “Also, technically speaking I’m, like…less than a month old, at this point? Hell of a lot for an infant to be dealing with.”

“See what you did there? You just made things weird.” Gina replies, making a face of disgust. “Now I feel skeeved out at myself, like I’m a-“

“Cradle-robber?” You supply helpfully, only to get blown a raspberry for your efforts.

“Fuck you.”

“That’s illegal.” You counter.

“ANYway.” Gina segues with a roll her of eyes. “Are you looking forward to the interview with Orwell? You know she’s probably gonna bombard you with a lot, right?”

You shrug, the two of you pausing near the edge of the FuzzBuzz pit where Amara’s happily wrestling with the ever-patient Sir FuzzBuzz, his rotund form currently pinned underneath Amara as she claims a decisive victory.

“Yeah, but at this point I feel that she’s earned it. I appreciate the help she lent us with Francine’s takedown of the Collective, and if I’m being honest then we might’ve been partly blind-sided with this whole Alpha business if Orwell hadn’t intervened.” You muse, watching Amara go another round with her loyal knight.

“I guess so. We’d have found out eventually, but her help was…” Gina says, pausing when she notices the odd look in your eye. “…you okay?”

“Speaking of blindsided, there is someone that’s going to be blindsided soon.” You declare gravely, staring long and hard out the window of the Dragon’s Roost.

“Wha…who?” She asks, confused.

“You. Right now.”

She doesn’t see it coming until it’s far too late.

(Continued)
>>
>>4214794

With a yelp of alarm, Gina finds herself tackled into the depths of the cozy abyss, your world a riot of comfy fuzz and softly buzzing forms as you, Gina, and Amara erupt into laughter. The plunge rapidly devolves into an unfair tickle-fight, with Amara joining your side as your fingers poke at Gina’s sides until she can barely breathe…but in a swift turn of events, you find that you’re rewarded as a traitor deserves when the pair turn the tables on you. Amara suddenly points towards you, sending Sir FuzzBuzz hurtling forwards as a chubby distraction while both she and GG go low, their tickles forcing a surprised bout of prolonged laughter that leaves you gasping for air. Time is lost as the three of you allow yourselves to get immersed in a three-way duel, and soon your cores are aching from a combination of laughter and the efforts of moving around the difficult terrain that are the bellies and backs of your fluffy swarm. Throwing your arms over the lip of the recessed space, you’re fighting to catch your breath when you notice that you’re being watched by a pair of eyes that twinkle with amusement.

“Ha, don’t stop on my account!” Orwell giggles, the lanky teen standing over you at the edge of the pit. As she takes a seat on the lip of the tub, you can’t help but notice that she looks leagues better then when you left her, her once-palpable exhaustion replaced with the vigor of a girl on a mission.

“ORWELL!” Amara cries with delight before lightly sneezing, launching herself out of the pit to stick the landing at the teen’s side. “You’re here!”

“Pleasure’s all mine, superfan!” Orwell replies, kneeling down to give your ward a hug that makes Amara’s eyes nearly water with joy. “So! Defiant! I wanted to pick your brain before we do this thing.”

“What about?” You ask, a multitude of duplicate limbs budding off from your actual arm as you deftly haul yourself and Gina out of the pit to stand before Orwell.
“Alright, so I got two lists of questions – one’s keeping it real light and fun, and the other’s some hard-hitting Barbara Walters stuff. Or, and this is totally cool with me if you want to play it this way…” Orwell offers. “…you could take the lead, and we can kind of make it like a just general mission statement sorta thing. Or you could offer up some questions you’d want me to ask you, if you want to be in control…no pun intended.”

You’re pretty sure that’s not exactly a pun, but you do appreciate her offer…

>>Keep it light. After everything’s that’s happened, you’re not in the mood for a hard-hitting interview.

>>You know what? Tell Orwell to do her worst…you can take it.

>>A general mission statement sounds decent, just to clarify some things and get a hold of your narrative.

>>Come up with your own questions to steer the interview, and maybe touch on some things you’d like to set the record straight on.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open for the next four hours.)
>>
>>4214799
>"Honestly Orwell? this is your show, you've earned it. Ask me what you want. start off light then go for hard, hit hard but let it end on a light note, or mix it up. Im fine with whatever your heart desires here."
>"I may be the one you'll put in the spotlight, but its you who's making it possible regardless."
>>
>>4214799
Supporting >>4214811
>>
>>4214799
>"It's your show. Let us set up the interview chairs"
>Get a chair set up, with Amara on our lap and Sir FuzzBuzz on the other.
>>
>>4214820
eh... im not sure i want Amara there. i think it would be fairer to Orwell and the truth to not have her be there. sure, shes gonna see it eventually anyways, but her directly being there might still make us and Orwell more hesitant about certain questions and answers we would prefer Amara not to have to deal with. her directly being there just makes it more iffy on some subjects in the moment, regardless of her seeing it or not later.

...that, and trusting Amara to sit still and not interrupt? while in an interview with her favorite streamer? Amara is still a kid with kid tendencies, afterall.
>>
>>4214801
oh, also BHOP, i had a.. very odd dream related to this Quest.

so, first off, the Dream had an odd feel to it, which was explained later. only way to describe it is, usually dreams, even if you yourself are not part of it, you have a sorta... feeling of being there while its happening, which was missing here.

anyways, the dream was about a West Proxy, designation never said, but later she went by Franky. she was studying Amalgams, specifically how their 'source' effects them, such as how being a twisted up human compared to a bunch of animals rolled together, or being a completely new specimen, effects their build and behavior. Well, through that, she ended up finding out how to 'extract' and 'morph' one with a strong human presence back into being a human(though still counted as an Amalgam), and giving them most of their sentience back.

so next thing you know, this poor sap of a man is now basically a slave to this Proxy, as he both owes her for restoring his sanity and control, and according to her, she regularly has to 'update' him to keep it that way. well this goes on with him having to basically do her dirty work while she continues her studies, until one day the Proxies freaking out, and as it turns out, the Proxy Network has been disabled, and she doesn't know what to do.

well, the Amalgam dude suggests she use this opportunity to be less of a bitch, which she doesn't take kindly to, but having little else to do, she decides the two of them need to go out and figure out what to do about this, and of course the guy has no choice but to help.

from here, they have a few escapades, from having to deal with a red herring red herring of an amalgam, to having to help a settlement not sink into a quicksand ocean, to the guy having to rush Proxy Franky to a specialist to avoid two different unique rot poisons from killing her. in a pretty standard way, the two grow close, with it being revealed while Franky was sick the guy was given info she was lying about his sentience relying on her, but he still stuck by her, and Franky hesitantly revealing she was supposed to hand him over to Prime for further studying, but lied to protect him over fear of what she would do to him.

from there, the two seem to be... very close, and as they start awkwardly avoiding eachothers eyes... you hear Amara whisper from the background "now kiiiiisssssssss." causing the two to freak out and quickly flail around.

...as it turns out, the reason there was a disconnect feeling, is because the 'dream' was being shown as Amara following them around with a proxy, and recording their actions and playing it back for everyone at the Penthouse as if it was a movie. so, haven't been woken up due to my dream making me laugh before, but that was certainly something.
>>
>>4214850
There are several parts about that post that make me very concerned various reasons. And I won't say it.
>>
>>4214864
personally for some reason the part that sticks with me the most is the idea of a red herring Amalgam with red herring abilities.
>>
>>4214799
>>4214811
adding on;
>keep the Interview just between us and Orwell.
>>
>>4214850
is it wrong that i picture the West proxy as a cola powered cybord wearing only underwear and a Hawaiian shirt.... while shouting at the top of her lungs

Also the poor dude probably had Stockholm Syndrome
>>
>>4214870
its an amusing image but if its a reference i dont know it.
id say being cola powered would be a death sentence in the crucible... but if Julia can make tea, then im sure cola isn't off the table.
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>>4214870
also eh, im not here to figure out the stories issues or morality, it was just a weird but interesting dream that ended off in an amusing way for me, nothing more.
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>>4214874
This guy.... His name is Franky and he is a cyborg powered by Cola.... And all technology he creates is powered by cola. though he did upgrade to be able to utilise other drinks as well. And each one changes his personality drastically. Tea for instance makes him a perfect english gentleman.... with the ability to pull a tuxedo out of nowhere
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>>4214874
>>4214870
"Franky" would probably suffer the same affliction as Sugar then if she was powered by carbonated sugar water.
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>>4214881
ah, very interesting. yeah sure, Franky can have those traits to some degree, as if that poor guy didn't have to deal with enough already.
sure, thats "canon" now and your fault about it Anon.

>>4214882
i think Sugar has alot of 'afflictions' so im not sure which one you would mean.
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>>4214878
I am also not judging just pointed that out that we would have to tell that Amara. Just so she wouldn't get he wrong opinion on how love could be achieved. Similarly to how the Ringo situation might affect her as well. what with how weird Tindalos mating rituals can be for creatures not able to see through time like they can
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>>4214799
>>Write-In
>"I'll follow your lead. You're the journalist here, I trust you to know better than I do how to structure an interview."
>"I'm not afraid to go for some more hardball questions if that's what you want, either, just pace it out, please?"
>>
>>4214887
yeah thats fair. honestly, theres alot of good old world morals that while still applicable to teach her will be... much more difficult to both find good examples of or properly explain.
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>>4214997
At least we won't have to deal with Amara hitting puberty until after the quest is over. That's post-story Shu's problem to deal with, not ours.
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>>4215008
and thank lord for that.
sorry post-Shu or whoever it will be, thats gonna be a tough one, but its on you, not us.
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>>4215011
>>4215008
We can help them by laying a solid foundation on top of which Amara can build a solid future
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>>4214850
(...I don't think you understand how badly I wish I could've witnessed this excellent story line. The ending made me literally cackle out loud when I read it at work, and I'm still chuckling about it now that I'm home.)
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>>4215068
very true, though usually moral foundations dont fully hit til after puberty, as during everythings all messed up to some degree regardless.

>>4215084
glad you liked it.
honestly im just imaging everyones face as Amara 'rolls credits' as Shu is just like "I think we may of missed a very important talk with Amara about evesdropping..."
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>>4215068
Well, I think we're laying a pretty good groundwork. A lot of it can be background stuff, not explicit lessons we sit down to teach Amara but just her learning morals by observation. For example, with how body positive we've been about the Corruption I think that Amara won't grow up to make shallow judgements based on appearance. "Of course beauty is more than skin deep, my aunt Julia is amazing and she literally has no skin."
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>>4215084
>>4215100
You have no idea how close that storyline has in terms of similarities it has with a major subplot in Carter's story. There, I've spoiled enough. Goddamn it, just had to be coincidental.

I swear I feel like I need to be pressured to push out those chapters, muse is still playing but it's all over the place, I want to work on chapter 5, but it's telling me that Chapters 6,7 (and 8!) has things that can be edited and finely tuned to make it all connect!
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>>4215119
huh, well interesting.
and hey, everyone works differently. it both helps(and doesn't im sure) that unlike the actual Quest you have no reason to do it on order, so long as it all fits together in the end.
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>>4215119
ho boy but that is what the muse does to people.

I hope it will work out in the end and you wont have a complete mess on your hands.

Have a Shoggoth Maid
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>>4215119
The voyeuristic reality TV aspect, or the Proxy teaming up with an Amalgam guy? You know what, don't tell me, I want to keep the surprise.

And hey, don't feel any pressure to write the story in order. You're not actually serializing this, you have no schedule to keep to for each individual chapter, so if it makes more sense to you to write later stuff first and then go back and connect it, do that. Whichever writing style works for you.
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>>4214799

"Honestly, Orwell?" You reply, brushing a few loose tufts of fuzz from your dress. "This is your show and you've earned it, so I'll follow your lead. Ask me whatever you want. You can start off light then go for the hard-hitting stuff, or mix it up. You're the journalist here - I trust you to know better than I do how to structure an interview."

"Aw, thank you! I like to think I'm not too shabby." Orwell replies with a sheepish grin before gesturing to the space. "I love your place, by the way! Is there a particular room or corner where you wanted to have the interview, by the way? Wherever you're most comfortable, I can make it work!"

"Oh, I think I know just the spot." You say, glancing over at the massive windows that let in the Fleshscape's scarlet light. Gina obliges your request with some deft use of the Core Console, and within a few seconds you and Orwell have been given some space with both of you nestled in a pair of matching chairs courtesy of your favorite Neuromancer...surprisingly comfortable ones, at that.

"Ready when you are, Shu." Orwell starts, and when you grant her a nod of approval the switch into her Skinternet persona is nigh-instantaneous, her tone of voice and body language shifting to that of a coy and playful trickster. Crossing one leg over the other, you watch as a third eye manifests just below her scalp with a sideways-grinning mouth just below it. It's a pale, unblinking orb that's trained solely on you, and as the blonde teen sitting in front of you closes her eyes, her voice carries the tenor of a professional as she launches into the main event.

"Hello there, my dearest listeners! I'm here with the one and only Hunter of Gods, the Defiant herself and the one you've been dying to hear - Shu, as I live and breathe! So, how's the legendary darling of the Crucible feeling after what proved to be an incredible turn of events in your confrontation with West Alpha?"

"Tired, but good otherwise." Comes your honest reply, filtered through a neutral smile. "Any day my family and I don't have to needlessly spill blood is a good one, in my book."

"It's not like many of the Daughters you've butted heads with have given you much of a choice though, with Magpie being the most recent example." Orwell continues breezily, talking with her hands despite being out of 'frame'. "As the power gap continues to grow between you and the average Daughter, how do you foresee conflicts being resolved in the future when you inevitably find yourself facing larger, more organized groups with numbers equal to your own?"

"With words, preferably." You admit with a shrug. "My goal's the Cord, and ending the Crucible for the sake of everyone that's fighting to survive out here - if anyone wants to try and stop me for whatever reason, then I'd invite them to air their grievances over tea and gin as opposed to tooth and claw."

Orwell chuckles, at that, a small thing that helps calm your frayed nerves.

(Continued)
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>>4215347

"I'll be the first to admit that I don't have all the answers..." You continue, easing into the pace Orwell's set for you. "...but if someone comes to be and mine looking to trade blows over ideological differences then I'd hope they're willing to set aside some time for us to maybe have a meeting of the minds. I'd prefer that to a fight, any day of the week."

"Noble as always, and so modest, to boot! Well, I do hope your trip to the Cord isn't filled with too many nerr-do-wells on your way there." Orwell says with an amused laugh, leaving you to wonder just how many teens would use such an archaic term. "Speaking of which, there's a lot of buzz on the Skinternet as to what you and your family's next big goal is. If you're willing to share, I'm sure everyone's curious to hear what's next on your agenda after you've shaken up so much in such a short period of time."

"Ha, well...aside from continuing westward, I have to say that's a call that's made by committee." Comes your honest answer. "We may make a few stops on the way, and of course there's always one thing or another that seems to pull us off-track, sometimes for worse and sometimes for the better..."

"Oh, always!" Orwell adds, prompting you to chuckle and her to harmonize your slight laughter with one of her own. It's a practiced thing, something you've seen before as a jovial prelude to something a little weightier, a chuckle to soften a blow.

"...but ever since we learned about it and discovered that there may be a way to break this cycle, then the Cord's always been out end goal. Now that most of our major roadblocks are out of the way, I think we're going to finally find our stride in getting there."

"Now, on that topic I'd like to touch on a hot-button issue that's been on the minds of many of listeners - while it's no secret that you're fighting to set Earth back on the right track, there's still a great deal of dispute over precisely what that entails. Now, at the risk of wording this a little too broadly, inquiring minds want to know - if beating the Cord in an unorthodox way proves successful, then I'd like for you to paint a picture of what the world looks like, post-Crucible. Would you keep these powers of ours intact? Would you reconstruct the world as close as we can manage, with flora, fauna, and the like put back the way it was? Do you try to avoid tinkering too much with the system as-is and bring humans back to our relatively even biological playing field, or would you really get in there and adjust some of the perceived flaws in humanity's form and function?"

Orwell leans forward, opening her eyes as she fixes you with a mischievous tripartite gaze.

"To not put too fine a point on it..." She caps off with a grin.

"...what does the future of Earth look like after you're in control?"

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, I shall be pausing here over the weekend, with posting to resume this upcoming Monday, April 27th at 9:30AM Eastern time. I'll be making myself available over the weekend to address any questions, concerns, or criticisms that arise. I hate to end earlier than I wished, but I must admit that several nights of sub-par sleep have sapped my energy so I hope to rest a bit so I can launch into wherever you take the Quest next. I do hope you all have a magnificent weekend, and if you need anything then do not hesitate to ask. Rest well one and all, and take care.)
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>>4215358
I hope you will get some rest as well OP.

This pause is actually pretty good. i think i may need some time to think about what i would like that answer to be.

And thinking about it when you had a long day of prep work is just not really i think i will be up to.

Good Night OP

Godd Night Anons
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>>4215367
(Sleep well, Anon. May you have as interesting a dream as the one that was shared earlier.)
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>>4215358
hey its fine. hope your weekend ends up being relaxing, and thanks for running. maybe its for the best too, considering you wanted to work on the system. so a break followed by less mechanical questionnaire time might help with that.

>>4215367
night Anon.
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>>4215355
>"I dont know."
>Shrug, honestly and fully.
>"Im not planning to be in control, or let anyone. Thats a big thing, i guess. No mother, no god, no dictator upon the heavens."
>"Look, my goal, my morals, ethics? its about freedom. freedom for people to choose... both to do good, and bad. Its not my place, or anyone elses, to 'fix' humanity, to change who we are at our core."
>"We're not perfect, we have our vices and our downfalls and our faults... but those are part of us, the same as the good."
>"I'll be honest? im not sure if ill revert things back, or keep them to some degree to what they are now... because we dont fully know just how far we'll be able to take things in the first place."
>"What i do know is, what i do, will be based on bringing back as many lost to the Crucibles initiation as possible, and to make sure we and the planet can survive longterm. maybe that will be best done making everyone a fleshy mutant, or maybe reeling it back a bit will be necessary to restore a stable ecosystem. all i know is, the hunger and the rules of the crucible were made to eventually force a winner through slow decay, and that for sure i wish to remove."
>"But 'fixing' humanity? changing anything that would effect our free will? our ability to choose and be who we are and were? thats not for me to change, or anyone. evil must be stopped, but its no ones right to not give others that choice in the first place."
>"so... the world afterwards? it'll look like humanities. it will never look like it was before, but it wont be mine, it wont be yours, it wont be anyone's. it'll be everyone's, like it was before. messy, chaotic... but charming, and hopeful, so long as you fight to make it so."
>"I wont be in control, everyone will. as much as anyone ever was or could be."
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>>4215355
>Look away towards the view of the landscape.
>"Honestly...I don't know. I don't have any grand vision of Paradise like Yurei dream of the Matrix World, or ambition like that of West Prime's quest to redesign the entire universe planet by planet. I don't have that sort of ambition or overarching goal. I was born into this world. This world is the only one I know of aside from past memories given to me by Sam."
>Look back at Orwell with certainty in your eyes.
>"But I do know one thing for certain."
>"The Future of Earth will not be one that I control. It won't be under the control of anyone else either. That sort of power is too much for a single person to wield with responsibility."
>"Look, my goal, my ethics, my morals? All the things that I have done? It is all centered around Freedom. The freedom of choice, The freedom to choose your own path and decisions. It's why I chose the Fool's Path. Because I wanted to make a choice that was my own."
>"No one being is perfect. We all have virtues, we all have vices. But those are an integral part of us. Those two sides of that same coin grants us the power and freedom of choice. Even the Hexane civilization before us are the same. They have their vitrues, they have their vices."
>"As tempting as it is for me to make the choice for everyone to decide the fate of the world, it would go against who I am and what I stand for. I would be making a choice that I can control, but in turn I would be robbing everyone else of that choice."
>"I will reach the top. But I will not take the throne and use that power to make a choice of my own. To do so will simply prove my hubris no matter how selfless that wish is."
>"If that power were to be forced onto me, then I would use that power to grant the people of the world the choice to choose that fate."
>"People call me a hunter of gods, a slayer of divinity. In reality, I just try to do the right thing, and the people I'm up against have chosen to use their gains for misguided or malevolent use in pursuit of godhood. Those who pursue that sort of goal, they did so of their own volition, of their own choice. And I respect that, just as I have respected Alpha's choice to choose to pursue her search for West Prime's base."
>"As for how the world will turn out afterwards, I hope that the world will make the best choice possible. Maybe the world will choose to eliminate the hunger system, maybe it will decide to revert the planet all the way back to before the Crucible even started and bring everyone back."
>"I won't be the one in control, everyone on this planet will. As much as anyone ever, was, or could be."

>>4215411
What I don't like about this write-in is that we're outing ourselves as hypocrites by declaring that we will use the power granted by the cord to make a selfish selfless wish (like wishing away world hunger) for everyone else. If we were to completely follow our philosophy of freedom of choice, then we would let the world decide their fate.
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>>4214751
Hey, I looked through the doc but couldn't find those shackles you mentioned. On another note, I actually had a different idea myself, similar to the shackles in effect but a little more toggleable.
A Relic that would be implanted and infused with a Daughter's brain, thus unlikely if not impossible to remove once attuned, and allows said Daughter to revert between corrupted and natural forms with a moment of concentration.
>>
I forgot to turn on auto-updates. Fuck. Sorry, BHOP.
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>>4215411
>>"What i do know is, what i do, will be based on bringing back as many lost to the Crucibles initiation as possible, and to make sure we and the planet can survive longterm. maybe that will be best done making everyone a fleshy mutant, or maybe reeling it back a bit will be necessary to restore a stable ecosystem. all i know is, the hunger and the rules of the crucible were made to eventually force a winner through slow decay, and that for sure i wish to remove."

I don't like this bit. I'm hard vetoing this bit because of how the wording is spelled out. This feels like making a declaration that we will still use the power granted by the Cord's throne to make a choice for everyone even though we told everyone that we respect the choices of everyone and that of the world. It would be hypocritical.

>"I'll be honest? im not sure if ill revert things back, or keep them to some degree to what they are now... because we dont fully know just how far we'll be able to take things in the first place."
I'm a bit iffy on this part too. It still feels like there an intent to use the power of god, but I am fine with declaring that we're very much uncertain about the true extent of the Cord's power.
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>>4215355
Thanks for running, BHOP, have a great weekend!

And boy howdy, is this a heck of a subject to consider over the next few days. I'll wait and see what other people post over the next while, and see if I can stitch a few things together to make a response that gathers everyone's ideas together.
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>>4215440
what? im not saying we solve world hunger at all. im not saying we would do anything but the literal basics necessary for the world to have chance to survive and give people back a choice in the first place.

theres no hypocrisy there at all. what line is confusing you then, as im not at all sure where you are getting that from in my write-up.

as for yours;
Im not a fan of the first line. i dont think we really need to compare ourselves or our goals to others to get the point across or for people to understand it.

also, the part about not taking the throne just feels wholly out of place and irrelevant, as we're not saying we would or will and the entire thing is based around us not doing that in the first place. its also horribly ignoring that someone at the end of it all DOES have to make some form of choice, and we still have morals we have to back up. if the planet voted a majority to do Yeureis plan, for example? then the world would be wrong and we would need to not make that choice and choose something else. the world CAN be wrong. if a majority of America voted to remove the first amendment, they would be wrong, and fighting it, or even our government representative choosing to not get rid of it, would be in the right. Freedom is not something you allow others, even a majority, to destroy, even if to defend freedom you must go against a choice they made freely.

things like saying we wouldn't get rid of the hunger im also wholly against. the world cannot make its own choices with artificial imitators and caveats pressed against it. the Crucible forced the Hunger on us in a way 'hunger' is not meant to exist, and that limits choice and forces stagnation. choosing to get rid of that and other caveats it forced on us to at least allow an environment not made to literally eventually collapse no matter what is not making a choice for them in the same sense as other things are, but removing something necessary to allow for survival in order to have choice at all.

i dont like yours because its acting too much like we stand on literally NOTHING at all, and ignores we DO have lines in the sand, aswell as some choices that may very well HAVE to be on our shoulders no matter what.

yeah no, im voting against yours.
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>>4215358
Thanks for running, BHOP. I'm sorry to hear that you haven't been sleeping well, I hope you get some good rest over the weekend. See you Monday.
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>>4215487
>>4215453
no, its not saying that at all. the throne literally doesn't even allow for that. also, see above. bringing people back and some other things are choices that even if majority voted against, should still be done. its not hypocritical to what we believe to not let a tyranny of the majority crush the freedom of the few.

as for the second one. no, its not. you're ignoring someone will HAVE to plug into the cord and HAVE to change things. someone, even for a moment WILL have to make massive decisions, even if only for a moment. its not hypocritical to say or imply we will for a second do what is literally forcefully necessary to actually even allow people to have a choice in the first place. i also have no idea why you are so hung up on the idea we will use the throne when that is not implied or even how this is possible to do anything at all.
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>>4215453
>>"What i do know is, what i do, will be based on bringing back as many lost to the Crucibles initiation as possible, and to make sure we and the planet can survive longterm. maybe that will be best done making everyone a fleshy mutant, or maybe reeling it back a bit will be necessary to restore a stable ecosystem. all i know is, the hunger and the rules of the crucible were made to eventually force a winner through slow decay, and that for sure i wish to remove."

>I don't like this bit. I'm hard vetoing this bit because of how the wording is spelled out. This feels like making a declaration that we will still use the power granted by the Cord's throne to make a choice for everyone even though we told everyone that we respect the choices of everyone and that of the world. It would be hypocritical.

I'm not entirely sure how it'd be hypocritical, because the Hunger and other rules were made to remove freedom of will in the first place. It'd be freeing, to not feel tempted to eat your best friend, so I don't really get what you mean. It's a choice that affects everyone in that choosing to wipe it will indeed affect everyone, but its actual result will be much less clouding their freedoms, don't you think? They won't be driven Hunger-mad because they stopped devouring others.
You did say it was about the intent to use this power, but if this choice helps people really genuinely choose for themselves instead of their reprogrammed stomachs, then that particular bit I don't see a problem with. But I would like to know what I'm missing here, since I feel like I am.
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>>4215491
Gonna be honest, I forgot what is and isn't possible, so I'm gonna bow out so I can do some searching. Thank you Anon.
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>>4215440
>>4215453
your issue is you are acting like by defending freedom, we are literally only defending everyone like a hive mind voting on every decision.

thats both not freedom, its the opposite of it. standing for freedom is in and of itself a choice that will bring us into contention with others ideas, and even force us to ignore some peoples choices for the sake of allowing for freedom to be possible.

we do not stand for freedom if we do not do what is necessary for freedom to even be possible, which your vote and your complaints would imply heavily you think we should allow for NO freedom at all if any level of a majority voted for it.

no. we shouldn't. thats not at all what we stand for, or anything we have said means. to stand for choice is sometimes to tell others 'no' in their choices. its just how things are, because otherwise no one would have the freedom to say no to anything ever again.
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>>4215495
the throne is a fake choice.
supposedly you get a 'wish' of some sort, but in reality even with whatever that is, what really happens is you get locked to the chair and admin rule, cannot prevent the Crucible from sucking your planet dry, and then are stuck in it for thousands if not millions of years as it heads to the next planet to eat it, as your home world is now an empty dead husk.

its even implied there are hard limit on what your wish can be, due to that. by wanting to defeat the crucible and save the planet, by definition we would have to go a different route than taking the throne, or change it so much beforehand it cannot even be called the same thing anymore.
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>>4215513
Oh. Oh shit.
Well then. Thank you for that. That's... fairly sobering. Somehow missed all that.
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>>4215520
no problem.
to be fair, we have known that for so long now its not been mentioned in awhile, because its just(or so i thought) been implied if we talk about anything involving the cord and our decision, its not taking the throne for the obvious reasons.
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>>4215520
From what we know about the Mother of All idea, and how the Nothing was approving of us giving up our empathic field, I think the Throne is an intentional trap. It's not just "not as good as it sounds", it's an active punishment for the greedy. Whoever set up the Crucible doesn't want the sort of person who would betray their species for power to actually get power. I really think the intended win state for the Crucible is to shut it down like we're planning, and the Throne is a bad ending that every species for the past seven hundred and seventy-six cycles has fallen for.
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>>4215450
(I'm not sure what you're apologizing for, Anon. So no worries!)
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>>4215528
im just curious why no one has broken the cycle. like... all things considered, the truth about the Mother position was not unknown or hard to find, even before Shu came about.

even if you're a pretty evil or selfish dick, its a horrible choice you wouldn't take. did our crucible just get super lucky with getting that info, and its usually supposed to be nearly impossible to get? if so, what then made us able to get it when thousands before us, hell billions when you take in the other crucibles, have not been able to get that info?

its just... hell a numbers thing even. if it was common to figure out, just no way Nothing would be acting like we're one of if not the first to look like we could truly win as actually wanted.
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>>4215491
>>4215487
>>4215492
>>4215503

I guess I'll have to explain my reasoning then. This is fine. We have the entire weekend before Bhop closes this voting poll. We're at a major crossroad at this update where we have to declare our goal and philosophy regarding the major longterm endgame when we ascend the Cord to the top.

My thoughts behind my vote was based around the philosophy that we have embodied throughout the beginning of the quest: The power of Choice and second chances.

My mind went back to how we we had our brain surgery to remove the empathy power, as well as how we convinced West Alpha.

I'll concede on the first line where I did a comparison.

Yes, I was trying to center my speech based around freedom of choice. I thought that the idea of letting the world decide would be the greatest embodiment of our philosophy. Yes, you've told me I'm being stupid for such implications.

I was on a roll at the time of writing, and I was going up to eleven to center my answer around the idea of freedom of choice. I hadn't considered the idea of making necessary choices to facilitate greater freedom at the time of writing.

But what I can't help but notice was the apparent contrast. Yes, we value freedom of choice, but to declare that we have no choice but to plug into the chair of lies and enforce the limited powers of the cord would make us a hypocrite by hubris of having succumbed to the power of temptation that the Cord offers. We know the Cord at the top is a trap. We know that to take on the role of "Mother" will reset this twisted game, we know that the Cord can only do so much. So I was stuck on whether or not to declare that we will take the bait that is the Cord's throne and become the next "Mother". I didn't want to betray the philosophy of choice. That's why I decided it would be best if the world could decide and not take the throne. In hindsight it feels stupid. We all know the Cake is a poisoned lie, yet we're being forced to eat it in the end anyways!

The only other choice that provided the hint of an alternative is finding out the "Mother of All" route, but we don't exactly know what that entails or whether if that is also a poisoned cake!

I get it. Your argument about necessary choices to ensure greater freedom and long term survival is sound. I will not deny that. What I'm somewhat stuck is the fact that your response was worded that way that gave me the impression that Shu was betraying her ironclad code through hypocrisy.

That and the fact that I'm slightly jealous that your votes have been consistently supported by others upon due to the sound arguments you consistently base yourself on.
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>>4215536
Yeah, it's weird. I could understand it if there was some sort of very strong anthropic bias here, like humans are just that special and every other species in the cosmos doesn't have the right mindset to not fall for the trap. But both the Tindalos and the Hexane seem to have reasonably similar mindsets to humans. Colored by different experiences that their different biologies cause them to have, but with the same capacity for rationality and empathy that allows us to realize the Throne is a trap. Presumably such traits are therefore common in sapient life. There has to be something else, some other factor that led to so many failures. The only semi-decent theory I have at the moment is that the Crucible used to be better at hiding the trap, and it's only now after hundreds of cycles of bitter Mothers adding their edits to its ruleset that it's obvious.
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>>4215536
You know what this reminds me of? A videogame called Skullgirls.

Where various fighters afflicted with varying degrees of body horror duke it out in a 2D fighting game to capture the wish-granting organ called the Skullheart.

Those who make a wish upon the skull heart are granted their wish, but in turn are cursed to turn into the titular "Skullgirl" and become the Skullheart's host and slave. The initial pitch for subverting the wish was supposedly that the wish maker needs to be pure of heart, but from all the cases I've seen in the characters who do wish upon the skullheart (a great many other characters destroy the skullheart instead [which simply makes it reappear years down the line[?]]), any wish granted upon the skullheart will turn them into the skullgirl if the wish has an inherent selfishness to it.
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>>4215543
now, maybe im misreading or misinterpreting the biggest paragraph here but... no ones eating the cake or taking the chair.
its... been talked about. supposedly if you jack into the Cord as near the top as you can get BEFORE reaching the chair, you can significantly alter its code and change it drastically.

the plan for like... 30+ Veins has been to do that. no one is taking the chair, or even changing the chair to be something we want, because the chair is bad and we can fix this(as far as we know OOC and IC at the moment) without even having to ever see the chair, or make the chair how we fix things. all going well, we simply do like, the three things i said;

Make earth viable again. the Crucible changed things for the ecosystem to no matter what eventually collapse to force a winner. literally nothing at all matters, freedom, godhood, hive mind, nothing, unless earth and humanity is altered so in SOME form the ecosystem and our bodies are stable again for longeterm sustainability. whether we make no one ever have to eat again, or switch back over to the old worlds literal need to eat for nutrients, sure, thats open for discussion and interpretation, but without doing something about this, no other choice matters or can be made.

Bring back who we can. Death afterwords and how it will matter is a big concern and is open for discussion, but even if most didn't want it, those, both good and bad, who the Crucible got rid of and gave no choice to deserve their second chance.

Keep things free and avoid them not being free. exactly what we even can do or should here, sure can be discussed, but making sure no one is a literal mind slave or in a position like Yureis thing against their will is a biggie, aswell as then making sure no one ELSE can then climb the cord and take over. theres again some details here that could be discussed, but again, for there to be freedom, you ironically have to not let people have the choice to get rid of freedom.

thats is. all we do, or have to do. yes, WE have to do it, and we do it even if alot do not like it. but even if you want to argue its a contradiction, its a necessary one. we cant have freedom if we leave it up to a choice, as odd as it may sound at times(and is also super simplifying why its a thing too). hell, we're not even saying people wont have a choice to make their own hive minds, or that we're making it to where a dictator can never come to power, or even getting rid of things like Neuromancy to avoid puppeteering(well, getting rid of it for that reason, again, for all we know we have to get rid of the fleshy powers to stabilize things, but we just dont know yet.). all we're saying or doing is making sure on a grand scale people DO have freedom in the first place, and that the Cord at least wont be a threat to that in the future.

if you still think i need to reword some things, im fine with that. but i do think you were looking at the message from the wrong angle.
>>
>>4215556
>>4215536
Another thing I would like to point out are the ones who do manage to climb to the top.

In the Tindalos iteration, Ringo said that the Mother who won the cycle ascended after committing a betrayal.

In the Hexane iteration, Ozmas betrayed Charon at the top.

If it really is a numbers game, and from what we've seen, a huge majority of the Daughter population intend to climb the cord with a selfish wish, while it seems that we're the only ones other than a select few who seem to have a selfless wish. If those odds are indicative (100,000 selfish daughters to 3 selfless daughters) then it would make sense that the selfish daughters would win out a grand majority of the time.

I think our iteration just so happens to be the potential iteration where we (Shu) have an actual chance at climbing to the top and "winning" as opposed to a selfish daughter.
>>
>>4215556
could be yeah. oh, and yeah, its not even that other species didn't know. the Hexxane knew, they knew all about Mother and the Crucible. they just for some reason thought they could bend it to their will.

so.. yeah, like we said. really really odd.

>>4215562
love me some skullgirls, but i was never super good at it.
and yeah, Mother and the throne are a bit like the Skullheart, but im also 10000000000% sure BHOP knows about Skullgirls, so.

>>4215576
yeah, i get what you mean, but the issue was more of even if you're selfish the wish and throne are an obvious trap that wont get you what you want, once the info is available.

and the issue is it doesnt seem like its at all really hidden. Ozmas only took the throne because she felt she had nothing else to do by then, not because she wanted to or thought it would give her what she wanted. the Tindalos... im not sure we knew exactly why she did. it just still doesnt add up though to us being the first who may actually 'win' it, given things is all we're saying.
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>>4215572
>if you still think i need to reword some things, im fine with that. but i do think you were looking at the message from the wrong angle.

Looking back at my own answer, I will have to agree with you on that.

As for the rewording, mind if I try to have a crack at it?

As for some parts of the answer. What I would like to point out is that I want to let everyone know and have Shu acknowledge that the Chair is a trap. That we will try to change the Crucible or end it in a way that doesn't cause a planet-wide collapse. I like the fact that we're acknowledging that we know there is a limit to the Cord, But I would also like to have Shu point out we're fighting against 776 iterations of changes to the Crucible, and that what we're trying to accomplish for everyone on the planet will be a super hard task.

I would also like to incorporate more...superfluous gestures in our speech in the interview. We're/Shu's a good wordsmith but some body language would help emphasize and reinforce our answer.
>>
>>4215600
i guess you can have a crack at it sure, but i will say its already as common as knowledge can be the Chair is a trap. it was said to have been info heavily passed around a ton of Veins ago as far as i can remember. just feels way too redundant. anyone who can even watch this already would know and have access to the truth about the chair, and probably be spreading it intentionally or unintentionally to those who cant watch it. and because of that, anyone who knows the truth would also already know to do what we say we want to would involve not using the chair. the planet dies if we use the chair afterall, so us wanting to save the planet alone means we wont use it, before we even get to anything else.

im just not at all understanding why you are so hung up on the chair when its almost a full no issue here, except for if someone else climbed and became Mother before we ended the Crucible.
>>
>>4215562
>>You know what this reminds me of? A videogame called Skullgirls.
>>4215585
>>love me some skullgirls, but i was never super good at it.

(Peacock was a minor inspiration for Amara's core mindset, while Double is absolutely delicious when it comes to body horror.)

(Painwheel is best girl, though.)
>>
>>4215355
>>4215440
Amending vote to this:

>Take a deep breath, look down away from the camera as if to try and imagine post-crucible earth.
>Your thinking takes up to a minute as the world watches in suspense.
>You try to think...and you come up with nothing.
>Shrug your shoulders honestly and fully, and look back at the camera.

>"Honestly...I don't know."

>Splay your hands out and look down at them.
>look back at the camera and speak with honesty.

>"I'm not planning to be in control, or let anyone else control earth's future. That's a big thing I guess...No mother, no god, no dictator upon the heavens and in the dimensions beyond."
>"The power to dictate Earth's future is the sort of power where it's too great for a single person to use and where the temptation to abuse it is too ripe to take."
>"My goals, my ethics, my morals, my actions? it's about freedom of choice. For people do good, and bad."

>Look into space, think of the people you come to know and love, think about their vices they struggle with and the virtues that they embody to overcome.

>"We're not perfect, none of us are. We have our virtues, we also have our vices. But both Virtue AND Vice are an integral part of us. They are two sides of that same coin grants us the power and freedom of choice.

>Look back at the camera with certainty.

>"I'll be honest with all of you. Those who are listening and watching this interview. I'm not certain if I'll revert things back or keep things the way they are now... because we don't fully know how far we'll be able to change things in the first place."
>"What I am certain of is what I'll do will be based upon bringing back as many people who were lost to the Crucible's initiation as possible, and to make sure that we and the planet can survive in the longterm post-crucible. The rules of the crucible were made to eventually force a winner through the slow stagnation and decay of starvation and hunger, and that for sure I wish to remove."
>"As for the method of ensuring that the planet can survive in the long term...Maybe establishing a stable Crucible ecosystem, or make everyone capable of using the Crucible body horror system. I don't really know, and I don't know what's best for everyone, but the point is there are possible choices on the table for long term solutions."
>"But 'fixing' humanity? To change who we are at our core? Changing anything that would effect our free will? our ability to choose and be who we are and were? That's not for me to change, or anyone. Evil must be stopped, but its no ones right to deny others that choice to be evil in the first place."
>"so... for the world afterwards? it'll look like humanity's world. It will never look like it was before, but it wont be mine, it wont be yours, it wont be anyone's. it'll be everyone's, like it was before. messy, chaotic... but charming, and hopeful, so long as you fight to make it so."
>"I wont be in control, everyone will. as much as anyone ever was or could be."
>>
>>4215696
Seconding this vote
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>>4215696
Ill give my opinion soon, but busy, sorry.
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>>4215696
>>4215355
yeah, i guess this works, supporting.
maybe some of the mannerisms feel a bit much but if thats all i have to complain about then its not that big a deal.
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>>4215696
Yeah, this sounds good.

>>4215355
Supporting.
>>
Say, did we ever take Mother up on her request to tell us secrets? If so, which vein is that in?
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>>4216790
We decided to let that decision be made by the Family and Rath firmly put her foot down that she did not want that and we complied. So no we didnt talk to Ozmas about secrets. We are pretty much leaving her hanging.
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>>4216790
She sort of said herself that the info she was offering wasn't too time sensitive, and that we could get back to her on that. Also told her that Charon is the one she should be apologizing to first and foremost, so maybe she reached out and talked to them about it instead.

I'm thinking of giving a second look at those files in Mara's home though, or letting Orwell peruse them is we're not going to so that she can sort the relevant info for us.
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>>4216803
Hmm, I have to say that I think gathering intel is never a bad idea no matter the source. As long as you keep context in mind.

Which vein was that in, so I can get some more context?
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>>4216820
I think somewhere between the 33rd and 38th vein. Not sure where exactly. i sadly dont have the time right now as i have to play surprise GM in about twenty minutes

Sorry i cant help you more
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>>4216838
(Good luck on running the game, Anon!)
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>>4216790
>>4216819
in any case the only thing that Ozmas can do now is basically watch with the admin's version of the Void Orrey and make phonecalls.
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>>4217008
I think she's still got more utility than that. There ought to be admin privileges that don't require burning tokens.

More importantly I expect that any secrets she feels like telling us would be valuable to know. Since we're trying to break the game we should really lend the gamemaster our ear.
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>>4217063
that would go against respecting our family's choices. And it would also risk Ozma's position as admin as intentionally spilling admin-only secrets is a quick way to suicide.

Ozmas made it clear that she wants the Crucible to end as the actions she's taken to speeding it up have shown. But she also made it clear that she wants it to end on her terms in a way that allows her to see the end of the Crucible rather than die while the game's still going. That's why she still has a token in reserve. She's holding it back to ensure that she stays alive. Even if she's given up on the game, she still has a sense of self-preservation.
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>>4217117
So we talk to our family. It's not like their opinions are set in stone.
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>>4217063
I'm not sure of that. Ozmas explicitly can't talk about the Mother of All concept. Maybe she can obliquely hint at things related to it, but she can't tell us anything directly. We're still going to have to do all our research on our own.
>>
>>4216820
>>4217143
nothing new enough has happened to change the context of the situation about Ozma or the info she might have to make us need that info any more or less, nor look at her differently, than when we put it to a vote.

at the current time at least, just based off respecting our families decision i very much disagree on trying to coax them into changing their decision on it. besides any other points on the issue, just not enough time or things(relating to this topic) has happened for it to make sense or feel right to try and change their opinion on this. in terms of the Crucible and Cord, nothing has changed, anything she could give us is exactly the same our family turned down, and in terms of Ozma or any relationship to her, nothing has changed there enough really for us to really have weight to change their opinion on her personally.

best we could hope for, assuming we ever DID wish to change their mind, would be after we meet Charon and the cult, and maybe talk to the Hexxane Couple again. and thats assuming either or would at all purposefully or accidentally alter their perception about trusting Ozmas as a source of info.
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>>4217316
I disagree. When Ozmas made her offer we didn't know anything about the Crucible's orchestrators. At this point we've got the Silver Key, Everything/Nothing Shenanigans, and the working Void Orrery. I personally would bet on the secrets being related to all that, and feel that in that context things have changed sufficiently since the original offer to warrant bringing it up again.

Frankly though I just think it's stupid that we turned her down point-blank without even getting a vague sense of what she's got on offer. It could be a gemstone of information that could save one of our teammates, or it could be something not worth the time to even listen, but we don't even have enough information to weigh which it's likely to be.

>>4217164
I mean, come on, it's the administrator of the Crucible. She's bound to have plenty useful information that would be highly useful for strategizing even if she can't talk about one particular thing.
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>>4217476
I mean, all due respect to Rath and whoever else objected and everything but its a terrible decision to let emotions hinder us from just /listening/ to something someone in a position with access to privileged information has to say.
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>>4217476
and i disagree with that. we already know Ozmas has restriction on anything higher end, even on stuff to a minor degree just related to her current job. we already have other means and tools to investigate those things you mentioned without her, on top of the fact she probably cant help with it. it changes nothing, and if anything, makes her even less relevant than before.

>>4217476
>>4217486
i disagree, getting our families input before talking to or trusting someone who has caused them and others that much grief was the right decision, and nah, there plenty of other reasons to not want to trust her. i also think you simply are not giving our family enough credit. they knew she had potentially valuable info back then, and they still made their decision. and as far as im concerned, we respect that decision. those that voted no can come to us if they change their mind, or bring it back to the table, but until then, not our place to change the decision.
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>>4217476
>I mean, come on, it's the administrator of the Crucible. She's bound to have plenty useful information that would be highly useful for strategizing even if she can't talk about one particular thing.
Possibly. But any information not related to the deep lore of the Crucible can be gathered from other sources. Orwell, Amara's clones, the Proxy Discord, scrying with the Void Orrery, Charon, and asking people at Laoc or other settlements we visit. We've got options. If there ever comes a time when we've exhausted every other option we have and we need Ozmas, then we can consider it. But I'm fine with leaving her as a last resort.

Speaking of gathering information, after we're done with our interview I'd like to send some of the Joyous network to hunt down the files Magpie took. One of Amara's Skintalking abilities is psychometry, she can make the fleshscape play back memories of what's happened there. The Joyous should be able to do that to follow Magpie's movements back in time from where we fought her at the Altar Splinter Camp, find where she stashed the notes. Even if she memorized and destroyed them, so long as she didn't do it inside a warded-off area the Joyous would still be able to read the papers over recording-Magpie's shoulder and find out what was in them. Actually, no, have the Joyous call us to that location after they find it, in that case, so we can read them. Let's not make the seven year-old be in charge of relaying documents, she'd get bored.
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>>4217751
>>4217520

Well if we're going to send our daughter out on a scavenger hunt we're gonna have to make it fun for her. Otherwise it'll sound and look like a chore.

Make the task appealing like it's a mystery a la blues clues and that detective Amara's job is to hunt for the clues so that when she does she gets to help Shu with putting the clues together to solve the mystery.

On a note related to Amara...Amara has some serious heavy trauma in the past that she's been trying to suppress and hide in the dreamscape. I want to help Amara overcome that fear so that one day she'll be able to grow independent without that crippling trauma holding her down, but I'm not sure what lies behind that door now that we've neutered our empathy tech.

All I can infer is that it must be something related to Amara's mother, the shabby metal door implies that the location is in the factory, involves emotions of fear and sadness, and is something that Amara is afraid to confront.

My own mind tells me that it involves the death of Amara's biological mother. Possibly a factory accident that killed her mother off prior to the crucible. It could explain why Amara was so quick to latch onto Shu as a surrogate mother. Amara may have a hard time accepting our death should it come to happen. We'll probably need to find a way to assuage that fear by telling her a story or a lesson somehow.

On a related note: Some characters in Chapter 5 have revealed a depth that I did not expect. It's gotten rather dark.
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>>4217856
I don't know. I think it's plausible that Amara's biological mother is dead, as you say it would explain Amara's latching on to Shu so readily. But I don't think it has to do with the factory where her mother worked. Amara showed no fear of that place, when we went there to scope out its Sparagmos Engine her reaction was just "oh, yeah, I've been here before" (side note: that Engine shouldn't be guarded anymore now that Ringo is unchained, we should go pick that up). I think that whatever spooky door Amara is worried of, it was somewhere else. It being rusted metal doesn't tell us much, she lived in an old industrial town so I'm sure there were plenty of metal doors.
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>>4217856
Amara already has her clones out and about and on missions without it being 'fun'. dont think getting her to commit a bit more of them to a specific goal would require making it fun either.

>>4217751
did we ever try and have her replay back anything in the files room? sure, the Penthouse stops any info from getting in/out, but i dont think we have ever tested if within it things dont still get recorded.

>>4217856
>>4217924
yeah, i think the door is someplace else. its also possible it was a more 'general' thing. like the door wasn't one she had ever seen in real life, but simply took on characteristics of the type of things hidden behind it. aka, rotten memories trying to be held back.
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>>4218348
>did we ever try and have her replay back anything in the files room? sure, the Penthouse stops any info from getting in/out, but i dont think we have ever tested if within it things dont still get recorded.
We have not, we didn't realize until this current crisis that Magpie had stolen files. We just assumed they were missing because Mara took them with her. And we're just now getting back to the Lair. So yeah, let's have Amara check the office before we send the Joyous out on a mission, that's a good idea.

>yeah, i think the door is someplace else. its also possible it was a more 'general' thing. like the door wasn't one she had ever seen in real life, but simply took on characteristics of the type of things hidden behind it. aka, rotten memories trying to be held back.
Also a possibility, yeah. It did feel more like Sigma's dreamscape was reinterpreting memories into the theme of a labyrinth, so that appearance can't necessarily be taken literally. It might just be something that happened in a metallic area, which again describes a lot of the town Amara lived in.
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>>4216984
Thanks. It went well enough..... I wish i would have had at least a day before my fellow GM told me he had a Migrane and couldn't run the game that was originally planned....

And now i still have to write some Lore Pieces form Books my players discovered after looting an old enemies stronghold. Of course after they killed him and put his soul into a small bottle to give to an Arch Devil later on

>>4215355
Supporting >>4215696

I would have like to particpiate in the discusssion but eh nothing i can do about that now, not with how busy my weekend has been so far, and i think that this is a good compromise.
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Chapter 5 of Carter and the Town of Cradleton is almost done and will soon be ready. It should be published before this day ends.

>pic related accurately describes mfw writing the section that I need to finish before I can look over the entire chapter to review, edit, and spruce up for the best reading experience.
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>>4219609
thats also kinda how i feel about a particular encounter Mina and her friends have to got through.
Pic somewhat related
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>>4219635
Anon you do not realize the boundaries I am pushing with Carter compared to Mina's D&D-esque adventure. I guarantee you that I have it worse.
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>>4219609
oh neat. looking forward to it!
ill put 125% biomass down all my friends are ready to play our game today almost exactly at when you post it, hah.
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>>4219662
oh certainly you have it worse. Especially since you are only borrowing him and not sending him on a nearly high magic adventure

I just wanted to say that right now i also feel pretty stressed about an encounter. Since it touches on some subjects i myself am uncomfortable around
>>
So I finally caught up with Body Horror quest, and it only took me like a whole month to read the whole thing. Wow, and I don't know if this is a great time to be caught up or a bad one. I had a lot of things I felt like I wanted to say when I could participate in the thread, so I might as well just post all my thoughts at once as they come to me. This has been and is one of my favorite quests I've ever read, if not my most favorite. I'd compare it favorably to most everything else I've ever read too, for that matter. Comparisons to Joker Quest in earlier threads made me read that one as well just to see where it's coming from(I prefer this story for a number of reasons but that's neither here nor there).

The style and presentation of the setting and characters, the themes and story beats, were memorable and made a strong impression on me, emotionally. I actually had to take a break from reading around the Spiraling Fear fight because everything to do with Isabelle gave me conflicting feelings I had to deal with before continuing. I feel like BHOP has a talent for giving plot threads a cathartic resolution, or at the very least he clearly plans far ahead and puts more effort into setting up conclusions to story arcs than he's often given credit for. I don't seriously dislike any character, and after everything I've read there's not much I feel majorly dissatisfied with in terms of plot threads either, which is an accomplishment that can't be understated.

Every combat sequence feels suitably intense and dramatic. I've never been so engaged by a quest's mechanics as I have been with this one's, the level of creativity its brought out of the player base shows that it works for others as well, and it's actually inspired me to start building my own system from scratch to try and emulate the feeling I got from this story. The fact that there's so much of the backend that's completely obfuscated and that BHOP also keeps track of the entire rest of the setting behind the scenes astonishes me as much as the fact that he apparently still keeps much of his notes on physical paper.

(1/2)
>>
As far as mechanics though, I do have some questions I've picked up from reading the whole story as quickly as possible. When I was reading, I tried to read all of BHOP's answers to questions and look at most of the votes that won after much discussion, but there were a few things that I've noticed have never been brought up in the story itself and I don't remember seeing in any votes, like the bio-draining abilities of Shu's Swarmlings, or their more recent ability to grow with time which hasn't come up or been used at all. I even remember BHOP telling someone that he'd let us have a full contingent of Swarmlings kept on standby or inactive as reserve forces, and that we could do stuff like recombine them after they fully grow to make them even more powerful. I also remember that as far back as the fight with Sasha where we picked up the Void Orrery we were doing things like attaching Bishops to Knights, and in later threads were template stacking Rooks on Platelings. Was there a reason that stopped? Was it just inefficient, or did it not work the way you wanted it to?

I guess the last of my thoughts would be about our build. I really like the direction the player base has taken with everyone in the party, although I feel like we're all spread a little thin, and that there are a few abilities which are basically dead that we could afford to sacrifice into others. For Shu, I'm mainly talking about Heaven's Drill, which I don't feel is worth its current or future investment. I'm not saying I think it's bad or anything, but I noticed how little we use it and it doesn't seem very effective when we do use it either, it just seems like a waste of potential levels compared to other options.

If we completely drained Drill of levels, we could reinvest them into Hive to get the capstone right away and I'm pretty sure one of the levels would effectively nullify them lost armor piercing capabilities, or push up Maw and Handed to hybridize at 10 when we get more levels, or similarly de-hybridize and re-hybridize Bloodline with its components at 10 to get more Leashes which would massively increase it's utility, or Spiralis or Spiritus, which we use all of in every fight since we got them and which compliment each other way better than Drill does anyway. We can still do all this if we keep Heaven's Drill, but we could do all this other stuff faster if we reinvested it's levels into something else instead of keeping it around as is or continuing to pursue it to the other power's detriment.

So anyway, those are all my immediate thoughts on catching up to where the story is now.

(2/2)
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>>4219689
>>4219686
Welcome fellow anon. I am pleased to see you have found the time to catch up!

As for your questions regarding our swarmlings:

Much of it is done on Bhop's end of bookkeeping. But it seems as of late the book keeping is growing to be a sisphysian juggernaut that even we have trouble keeping track with the massive spreadsheet we've made to alleviate Bhop's work. As for the template stacking on our swarmlings, we've hit technical limits as much of those is based on number crunching left for Bhop to figure out.

I do have a question for you however, how are you finding our community made content? Is there any omake or story that catches your eye? or is it a relic that you find pleasing that added to the worldbuilding that we have created?
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>>4219689
>like the bio-draining abilities of Shu's Swarmlings.
that happens in the background. as BHOP has said it before, alot of details in a fight get ignored or glossed over even if they happen due to character limits in the posts. he also cant give us a super accurate read on it, due to every swarmling having a different gauge, and also using it to heal themselves at times.

>their more recent ability to grow with time which hasn't come up or been used at all.
the issue here is the timescale of the Quest. its only maybe been like a Day or so In Character since we got that. we haven't had Time for that to take effect, as it takes days for that to start having effects, and we have even had to abandon our home in that time, so no time to set any swarmlings aside, or for it to matter if we had.

>Was there a reason that stopped? Was it just inefficient, or did it not work the way you wanted it to?
think this was just a mix of the 'too many tools in the shed' thats been more recently talked about, aswell as some of it is just us forgetting or it not being applicable to the moment. putting a Bishop on a Knight for example is worse than putting it on a person, and recently we have had bigger party sizes. the growth in our Swarmling cap aswell makes it more difficult to justify, as just popping out more Knights serves the same role basically in alot of ways.

>For Shu, I'm mainly talking about Heaven's Drill, which I don't feel is worth its current or future investment.
Oh man... if only you had been around for some past conversation haha. its really really had to convince a majority to get rid of any ability, and Heavens Drill HAS done us some good, so while i do agree it has some overlap issues, its not going anywhere. that said, BHOP plans to heavily rework some stuff, specifically the level system for levelables, so that might help with some things. we'll see though.

but yeah, more and alot of your thoughts on Drill and others has been talked about and... well, no one fully agrees, to put it lightly. compromises, to put it bluntly, as what alot of that is i think. nothing wrong with that exactly, but i do think Shus build might be the one with the most compromises made on it for everyone, or at least, public compromises.
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>>4219689
>>4219728
ah, and yes.
welcome to the Quest. or at least to the point you can post in it, heh.
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>>4219686
>>4219689

Oh hi. Always nice to have someone join in.

Please grab a Fuzzbuzz over there and ask Dorian what he would recommend as a drink. Because OPs wild ride never stops.
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>>4219752
>mfw BHOP even has at least one, if not more, Quests in the works for after this.
>mfw knowing him they will be at least just as long and indepth, if not even moreso, than this one.
>pic related.
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>>4219686
Hey, welcome to the quest. Yeah, it's a really good story, BHOP does a great job. Rapid update pace of a well-written narrative with a great deal of interaction between players and QM, he's ruined me for pretty much every other quest on this site. I'm got a few issues here or there with the quest, but the good outweighs the bad by far.

>>4219689
As for your questions.

> I don't remember seeing in any votes, like the bio-draining abilities of Shu's Swarmlings
Mostly that either happens in the background or we just don't have enough bio gathered by our swarm for it to be mentioned.

>or their more recent ability to grow with time which hasn't come up or been used at all
Well, like you said, they grow with time. It's actually only been like, two days in-game since we got that power, so none of our swarmlings have hit maturity yet. FuzzBuzz is probably going to be the first to do it, actually, which amuses me.

>I even remember BHOP telling someone that he'd let us have a full contingent of Swarmlings kept on standby or inactive as reserve forces, and that we could do stuff like recombine them after they fully grow to make them even more powerful.
Actually, I believe he said the opposite, there. That a swarmling needs to be active (whether under our control or severed like FuzzBuzz is) to get the benefits of maturing. Shame, it would be nice to just leave a few Rooks in our basement to age like barrels of pickles.

>I also remember that as far back as the fight with Sasha where we picked up the Void Orrery we were doing things like attaching Bishops to Knights, and in later threads were template stacking Rooks on Platelings. Was there a reason that stopped? Was it just inefficient, or did it not work the way you wanted it to?
Inefficiency for combining Bishops and Knights, typically a Knight is going to be fast enough. Making Rook armor we don't do much because that mechanic has never been formally stated, so we don't really know the benefits and it's unclear when it's worth it to do.

>I guess the last of my thoughts would be about our build. I really like the direction the player base has taken with everyone in the party, although I feel like we're all spread a little thin
Ha! Yeah, we've spread ourselves out a bit much, on some characters. Really need to consolidate powers. Francine's the worst, she's got levelable powers right now and they're all good for her build.

>For Shu, I'm mainly talking about Heaven's Drill, which I don't feel is worth its current or future investment. I'm not saying I think it's bad or anything, but I noticed how little we use it and it doesn't seem very effective when we do use it either, it just seems like a waste of potential levels compared to other options.
Yeah, Heaven's Drill is a controversial one. Personally, I like it, but I agree that Shu can probably go without it. But there's an element of sunk cost fallacy in there, once a skill is invested in it's hard to convince people to let it go.
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>>4219765
>I believe he said the opposite, there. That a swarmling needs to be active.
did he? i cant remember. well regardless, we really need to actually get some bulk constantly at least trying to get that.

>Francine's the worst, she's got levelable powers right now and they're all good for her build.
she does have i think it was at least one, maybe two Abilities i think are worth scrapping on her, and a few combos that even considering most are already hybrids are worth the risk, even for 4-way hybrids which can still sometimes work out.
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>>4219723
I like what I read, but I'm gonna be honest; it's kinda frustrating to find it. I've read through all of BHOPs posts and skim the rest of the thread and look at anything interesting, but that leads to me seeing someone post chapter three of a fanstory that I literally can't find the first two chapters to. That problem is worse with Relics, because I straight up can't figure out half the time where these things are posted. I want to reserve a more detailed response until I can go back and read through all of that stuff

>>4219728
>well, no one fully agrees, to put it lightly
That's fine. I've participated in a bunch of other quests so I understand how it gets when people can't agree, and myself have had issues being an argumentative contrarian dickhead in the past, so I try not to fight people over their own opinions. I just wanted to voice my own opinion from what I observed catching up to here. That said, I also think a firm position on one side or the other is important, because otherwise Drill is just going to sit there at its current level and that's not really helpful for anyone.

>>4219765
Yeah, I can see that. People seem weirdly reserved about respecing even though we have the Engine, but that's probably just because the voting block you'd need to organize to get anything done when it comes to that kind of thing honestly seems like a nightmare when I'm not even participating.
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>>4219765
>Actually, I believe he said the opposite, there.
Also, I think I miscommunicated. The contingent of Swarmlings active or inactive was a separate point to the others which I felt we also didn't make use of. Sorry if I implied they were combined points.
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>>4219788
Which fanstory are you missing the first two chapters to? Maybe we can help out

>>4208306
At the beginning of the thread OP had put down the Doc with all the fanworks in it.
Also the longer stories are all linked internally. I am pretty sure the Pepperbox Gang and Jounrey(defintely is since i write it) are linked as such.
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>>4219788
BHOP is working on and now has a link to fan works he is posting in the opening message... but this time it didnt work so its a few posts down, aswell as i think its not finished yet as i didnt see everyone's stuff in there. though to be fair to BHOP, only two people even linked him to a link of their fan works in the first place.

>>4219723
cough cough

>>4219788
agree on the Drill. im fine if we keep it, but if we do, we need to do something with it. and Shu needs a lil bit of space in her build, at least in the current system, so that means something getting scrapped or hybridized.

>People seem weirdly reserved about respecing even though we have the Engine.
some dont want to rely on the engine when we eventually might not be able to, and then people like me who run and update the character sheets feel the urge to kill at the idea of having to significantly redo even one character due to the work that would be involved, not gonna lie. on top of that, to heavy a respect like you said too would just be a nightmare in this system. "pen and Paper" has limits on how much you can give a player or expect them to change without it just being too much. and thats on top of what BHOP would have to do in the background aswell.
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>>4219786
>she does have i think it was at least one, maybe two Abilities i think are worth scrapping on her, and a few combos that even considering most are already hybrids are worth the risk, even for 4-way hybrids which can still sometimes work out.
Yeah, I can see a couple of combos that might work despite them being four-way. Mostly involving Violens Tetrastigma, that's got potential synergy with several of her skills.

>>4219788
>Yeah, I can see that. People seem weirdly reserved about respecing even though we have the Engine, but that's probably just because the voting block you'd need to organize to get anything done when it comes to that kind of thing honestly seems like a nightmare when I'm not even participating.
You have no idea, anon. We've managed to streamline it, lately, but it's still a trial. Just wait until your first level vote. You'll see.

>>4219795
Ah, then yes, if we do just want to have some beefy swarmlings in storage ready to break down into smaller units, we can do that. The problem is that there's not much need for it, anymore, Shu has become Bio-efficient enough that she's typically at full Bio the whole fight long. It might become useful again once we unlock Queens and have some really big Bio costs to build those, though.
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>>4219812
Thanks, appreciated.

>>4219823
Just on the surface level, I kind of want to triple hybridize Drill with Maw and Handed at 10. That probably wouldn't be a good hybrid though. It's just that otherwise the best I can see is us picking up and leveling even more skills to make Drill synergize, which is obviously untenable.
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>>4219855
last we looked, the Maw and Handed hybrid was something i very much disliked, over just leveling Hand and Maw by themselves. cant see Drill changing that to be honest.

maybe BHOP updated the hybrid though, but im not the one to ask.
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>>4219823
Is the char sheet totally up to date by the way? There's some weirdness in there like the components of hybrid abilities being at a lower level than 5 for some reason
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>>4219863
it should be. maybe take a look at the upper right corner of each cell and see if you can drop it down.
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>>4219863
it is.
click on the little arrow beside each ability(and 'other abilities') to see the full list of levels and such, then click on the one you want to view.
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>>4219862
I read that discussion on why people disliked the handed and maw hybrid at the time, but it seemed like people didn't actually have a problem with it, so much as they just wanted to see if they could get more out of it by leveling up the components more first.

I agree that it was the right move, but that's more because due to the way hybrids work, there's not any reason not to level components all the way unless you want the power spike early. I actually feel like we would also be well served de-hybridizing and then re-hybridizing some abilities at a higher level for exactly that reason.

>>4219870
>>4219872
Oh, I see now, thanks.
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>>4219812
The link to the fanworks doc isn't working for me.
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>>4219881
yeah... but you have to convince people of that..... Which is a pain a total pain.

Especially if you cant do it immediately and because we dont get such massive boost like 10 or more levels in one go it will most likely never happen. Just changing Ginas Verurteilung to Ludmias Welcome took a lot of talking
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>>4219889
It is a bit lower down

>>4208327 it is in here but also looks a bit wonky. I am also pretty sure my own works are not in it right now
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>>4219881
ok, well I at least hated that hybrid with a passion.

we wouldn't be served well on de-hybridizing though. a good portion of hybridizing is because we already spread our levels out too thinly among too many abilities. de-hybridizing would only make that problem worse.

>>4219889
BHOP messed it up. he reposted it a few posts down once someone mentioned it.
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>>4219863
Actually, I think there is one bit that's not up to date. Did we ever add the Ravenous Maw health boosts from Laoc and the Vermilingua fight? As I recall, we wound up eating a total of five things with the Ravenous Maw (well, Holly did, but we get her bonuses), so that should be another 100% Health added to its bonus.
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>>4219890
Yeah, I read some of those discussions and saw how long that level up votes when for. A deeper respec would probably just be impossible despite any merits it would have. That's kinda sad, and it bothers the part of my brain that demands optimization, but oh well, that's democracy.
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>>4219902
no, it only counts if its a Daughter and a final kill.
which we didn't get any with. or well, the one? two? we have is all we have gotten.
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>>4219898
I feel like that's kind of offbase? I remember BHOP saying off hand in a past thread that Endgame Daughters were supposed to have IIRC 5-6 maxed out hybrid abilities. So it's not so much that we're too spread out individually, just that we're seemingly underleveled due to, well, spreading them out across our whole party.

I think we're about at parity to normal Daughters on an individual level, we're just fighting opponents who have the equivalent of our entire party's levels stacked on one person since that's what's actually normal in the endgame.
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>>4219911
No, it counts for Amalgams, too. As for killing blows, Holly got one in Laoc and got four killing blows against the Vermilingua's symbiotes.

From Vein 35, the Laoc fight
>(Holly drained the HEALTH from the body, and currently has the girl’s biomass still within her and ready to be consumed or given away. Additionally, the HEALTH increase to be gained from delivering the final blow to the Hunger-mad can be applied to either Shu or Holly’s current Spiritus Shell, should you choose. That’ll be part of the Level-Up vote.)

And Vein 37, the Drill-Mole fight
>BHOP, did Holly manage to eat any of the Dragonfly-Drills, or did the Knights take them all out before they could get close? Because the thought occurs to me that those were independent Amalgams, not constructs, and as such they should qualify for the Health boost that Ravenous Maw grants on finishers.

>(Yes, Holly ended up consuming 4 of them.)
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>>4219939
well, i asked BHOP before and he did not say we had gotten anymore from it. what we have is all we have gained.

>>4219936
well, thats not what i remember him saying, and doesn't change the fact we still are way too spread thin. BHOP has been wrong before aswell. how things are seen and feel from our perspective as players matters too, and most have consistently agreed we need to consolidate and things feel to thinly spread.
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>>4219936
>>4219948
also, you say that, but most have near enough to what you said (5-6 hybrids), but we're already said to be around halfway leveled to endgame but are struggling to get even a single ability maxxed.
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>>4219948
>well, i asked BHOP before and he did not say we had gotten anymore from it. what we have is all we have gained.
Odd. We'll have to ask him, then.

>well, thats not what i remember him saying, and doesn't change the fact we still are way too spread thin.
I believe anon is misremembering, I remember that conversation as being what the Hexane Ascendants had as their builds. It was about a specific party of high-level Daughters we knew about, as a point of comparison to our builds, not what the typical high-level Daughter looked like.
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>>4219954
could be i suppose. doesn't help us who have been here awhile have probably had repeat of these conversations.
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>>4219950
>>4219954
I found what I was remembering. Vein 29
>Q. BHOP, would it be a spoiler to ask how many skills and what average levels are typical of endgame Daughters? Like the Ascendants, they'd be a good example. Ozmas had eight that we know of, but she also had abandoned team play and ate at least one entire city worth of levels by the end. How many was Vultha or Silvis carrying around and leveling?
>A. (Most of the Ascendants that made it to endgame were carrying around five or six skills (most of which were dual or triple hybrids), save for one in particular who was an outlier.
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>>4219957
oh, well yeah but i know BHOP has said stuff specifically on typical builds and us specifically before. the Hexxane were not the moment i was thinking of and not all he has said on it.
also probably not a good example, considering their uniqueness.
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>>4219960
I mean, it's been less than a month in universe as I've been reminded of earlier. We're kind of exploding in power growth from an in universe perspective.
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>>4219968
yeah, but that doesn't have anything to do with BHOP OOC mentioning how far long our build is compared to the typical endgame. one month or three years, halfway til typical end game is the same.
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>>4219973
Are you talking about Charon telling us we were halfway to endgame? Because we've grown quite a bit from that time too.
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>>4219975
So are you missing links or have you found what you were looking for in the doc?

>>4219975
>>4219973
Well we certainly should consolidate abilities just for oversights and everyone sanity sake

But we will see what changes OP will implement to the Level system.

Those are certainly gonna be interesting

We can then also ask him roughly how far along we are.
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>>4219990
I'm just going back through the archive and ctrl+f searching for Pastebins and stuff. It's working, but still kinda annoying.
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>>4219898
>ok, well I at least hated that hybrid with a passion.