"That sounds ideal, thank you. The bonds I use are rather energy-intensive, and as you can see, after all, and with Miss Ayaka in uncertain condition I would rather not strain her further." Up until now, you've been ignoring the issue of what happened to your Master in order to focus on the pressing issue of getting home, but now that you're out on the road it returns to your mind. Just as the mundanes in the office building were, she's fallen unconscious. Could she have been the victim of some spell of Harris'? After a moment of thought, you continue, "Did you happen to see what Harris did to her? If there could be long-term effects, or this is some sort of curse..." You leave the consequences unsaid.

"Oh, that. You needn't... be so concerned, Ani-ue," Kōrakuhime replies with a shake of her head. "I... briefly examined her, while you were... conveying the two to our vehicle. Your... Master is only suffering from exhaustion, triggered... by overuse of her magic circuits. It could be... dangerous if you were to continue before... she has had a chance to recover, but at the moment... there will be no damage."

"I see." Without thinking you let out a sigh, one more source of worry removed from your shoulders. "That certainly is a relief. Thank you, Kōrakuhime."

"Of course," comes the soft answer. "It was... but a trifling thing to... do."

For a while, you drive in silence, retracing the route you took on the way to your planned battle with Archer. As you pass the commercial avenues, you notice that the late-night pedestrians mostly seem to have gone home by now. It's only eleven, but you suppose it would be strange for large groups of people to stay out later on a weeknight. Many of the brightly sparkling shops have dimmed their windows and closed their doors, while those who do cater to the later customers sit largely empty, waiting for the wanderers without morning obligations. Soon enough, though, you leave the commercial zone behind and return to the suburbs, where your drive comes to an end as you pull back into the welcoming enclosure of the manor's garage.

"Can you carry that other Saber down to the basement?" You gesture to the unconscious blonde as you get out of the car, walking around to Ayaka's side yourself and picking her up. "I'll be putting Miss Ayaka to bed, and I assume you'd like to begin sealing that girl off as quickly as possible."

"Certainly. We have no... idea how long she will remain conveniently sleeping, after... all," Kōrakuhime says, and as she opens the rear door the other Saber slumps half out of the car, as if to punctuate the point. The sleeping girl shows no sign of noticing her plight, beyond a soft, "mnya..."

Looking at the girl as one might examine a particularly unpleasant bag of trash to be removed, your sister produces a talisman and conjures a cushion of wind to carry the other Servant and relieve her of the burden of manual labor. Once the sleeping girl has been wafted out of the car, Kōrakuhime stalks off out of the garage, your prisoner floating along behind her. You pick Ayaka up by more mundane means, slinging her over your shoulder as before and making your own way back to her room. She must be exhausted indeed, as neither your rough treatment in carrying her nor the shift of being dumped on top of her bed causes your Master to stir. For a moment you consider changing her into her nightgown, but upon the realization that you'd have to search through the girl's closet to find it you dismiss the notion as too much trouble. You slip off her shoes, ensuring they haven't touched anything indoors, and leave her to do the rest when she awakens.

With that, you turn and make your way down to the basement, the former workshop of Jean-Pierre Vaisset. As you descend the lowest flight of stairs, the stone ones disconnected from the others in the house, it occurs to you what a perfect prison the area is. It's all stone down there, a set of impenetrable cubic rooms linked by narrow corridors and connected to the surface only by this single steep flight of steps. Perhaps, before the Vaisset and Shijou families merged to require two workshops, this house's former owners did use the basement as a dungeon.

No point in speculating on that now, you think as you enter the main room, where you were first summoned. It will be a prison now, whatever it was once. Not this room, however; there's no sign of your sister, only Vaisset's abandoned books and tools. Moving on, then, you head right and begin going down the hallway connecting to the other basement rooms. The second room, the larger area you used for sparring practice accessible by a second right turn, is similarly empty; as is the third room, a smaller chamber filled with unmarked crates whose entrance is across the hall from that of the second. Only in the fourth room, the second on the right in the basement hall, do you find Kōrakuhime. You almost run into her, in fact, as she opens the door in your face to make her exit.

"Oh!" She lets out a startled gasp, suddenly finding you there. "Ani-ue! I was just... going to look for you. I have finished placing a seal on that Servant."

"You're certain she won't be able to escape?" With the magic resistance innate to a Saber, any kind of magical bond seems uncertain. On the other hand, Kōrakuhime's abilities have impressed you enough so far that you don't doubt she has a clear understanding of what will or won't be effective.

"Quite." Kōrakuhime gives you her slight smile. "I have created a... multilayered barrier about her that prevents her Master from supplying her with magical energy or acting on her through his command spell. She will receive... enough energy to survive, provided to her... by the leyline beneath this place... but only while she remains within the room behind me. Of course... there is a physical barrier as well."

"Marvelous," is the only word that springs to mind. Kōrakuhime's seal sounds quite impenetrable. "I can rest easy, then, knowing our prisoner is secure," you say with a smile.

"I believe that I did... tell you that bounded fields are my specialty," Kōrakuhime answers, a hint of teasing in her voice. "I only hope... this can partially erase the shame of my defeat at the hands of that... human." In her mouth, the word carries as much venom as one might expect from the blackest insult. Before you can reply, though, she goes on in a quite relaxed tone, "Now, Ani-ue, if you would excuse me... I am rather tired." You're still blocking her way out to the hall, you realize.

>[ ] "Of course, go ahead. I think I'll be getting some sleep soon myself. It has been a taxing night." (Self-Preservation)

>[ ] "Not at all. Before you leave, though, tell me: it won't interfere with your barrier if I go in and have a look, will it? I'd like to be there when she wakes up." (Pride)

>[ ] Say something else. (Write in)

>>3840928
>[ ] "Not at all. Before you leave, though, tell me: it won't interfere with your barrier if I go in and have a look, will it? I'd like to be there when she wakes up." (Pride)

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>>3840928
>[ ] "Not at all. Before you leave, though, tell me: it won't interfere with your barrier if I go in and have a look, will it? I'd like to be there when she wakes up." (Pride)
Tome to bully the dumb king

>>3840939
>She could just whip her sword down and he'd be dead immediately with a flick of the wrist
>Goes for a big windup instead
Goddamn, this shot. It's like I notice a new terrible thing about it every time.

>>3840928
>[ ] "Not at all. Before you leave, though, tell me: it won't interfere with your barrier if I go in and have a look, will it? I'd like to be there when she wakes up." (Pride)

>>3840928
>[ ] "Not at all. Before you leave, though, tell me: it won't interfere with your barrier if I go in and have a look, will it? I'd like to be there when she wakes up." (Pride)

>"GOOD MORNING SABER."
>*incomprehensible screaming*

>The sleeping girl shows no sign of noticing her plight, beyond a soft, "mnya..."
Damn it Saber. Stop unintentionally acting cute while you're in mortal danger.
>Looking at the girl as one might examine a particularly unpleasant bag of trash to be removed
The start of an excellent relationship.

Kourakuhime is an excellent ally.
As one should expect from a Caster, honestly.

Now we just need to go about "convincing" Saber.

>>3840928
>[ ] "Not at all. Before you leave, though, tell me: it won't interfere with your barrier if I go in and have a look, will it? I'd like to be there when she wakes up." (Pride)

>>3840951
And by "convincing", you mean "use her as a training dummy".

>>3840958
So, what should we do in this regard anyways? Break Excalibur so she can't meme herself and us to death at any time?

We do need to practice the basics of CQC...

>>3840969
She doesn't have the mana to use it now.

>>3840958
Possibly... Possibly...
We should see what she has to say for herself when we tell her what we actually are.
>"NO SABER FOR THE LAST TIME I AM NOT AVENGER OR ANGRA MAINYU OR "THE SHADOW" GOD DAMN IT."
Or that her Master abandoned her despite having ample opportunity to save her.

If we can actually get her working for us and both sparring with us and fighting alongside us, it will be immensely useful for the battles to come.
By altering her or convincing her with our fantastic wordplay, either works.
But yeah it looks like Kourakuhime REALLLLLLY hates Seibah.
Also, I love how her magical energy supply really isn't an issue now that we've given Tsubaki the All Clear to drain as many people as she likes. Girl really hates humans.

Also, Saber is a fantastic bodyguard for Ayaka due to Instinct: A letting her react to sneak attacks or Assassins who try to go for our Master.

Additionally, I like how "Knight" has appeared and comes before "Serial Killer" on our character description now. Benefits of 1v1ing the King of Knights and winning, I suppose.

>>3840969
>Excalimeme
>with just enough mana to sustain herself
She would literally just die from using it and nothing would happen.
Also we don't want to break the one thing that sets her apart from other Sabers if we're going to recruit her.

>>3840977
But get this- I don't want to recruit her. Does Vaisset have any shinai?

>>3840986
We can make some out of nothingness

>>3840986
But why?
Allies are incredibly useful.
You can see this with Kourakuhime.
Hell, if we had Saber as an ally tonight, we would have been in absolutely no danger from Matsuda or the Executors.
Kourakuhime could've just focused on taking down Matsuda with us while we could have had Saber protect Ayaka from the Executors.

Also yeah we can just project any sort of weapon we want into existence really.

>>3840989
Just to be clear, you're not using projection magic. What you're doing looks similar, but is fundamentally different.

>>3840993
Yeah I know, bad choice of words.

>>3840986
>hey here's some money
>yeah thanks
>proceeds to stick money into a piss jar and just stares at it for a single hour every day

>>3841008
But anon, I want to punch the money until I get good at punching and then invest the money into my personal portfolio.

>>3841011
It's a poor investment if you have to set like 95 percent of the money on fire for your investment.

Also it might make the entire economy collapse.

>>3841014
Hence why we need to set our otherwise useless broker and our savvy Economics Ph.D. to work improving the process.

>>3841024
Whoops it turns out that you and your friends made a small mistake and now every thing you own has been repossessed by an angry manjew

>>3841024
It just seems needlessly dangerous and wasteful to sacrifice Saber if we can get her as an ally.

Do you really want to take in Angra Mainyu Corruption and also get it in the grail too?
Because there's a non-zero chance that's what we'll get from sacrificing her.
As a potential teacher/sparring partner, she is far more useful to us than a single upgrade is.

>>3841036
>he thought he could beat the Manjew when it comes to cheating the economy
Heh.

>>3841041
>As a potential teacher
She can probably teach us how to ride a horse, nothing more.

>>3841041
I have said over and over that I see the value in training with her. I don't see her as a reliable ally in battle, and full expect that the investment required to get her operating in that respect is objectively better put to literally any our other projects + a neat lil sacrifice. Also, if she harbors manjew and cannot be sacrificed or sent back to the grail it'd be better to just Kenótis her and be done with it.

>>3841051
While that's quite useful, having her teach us how Magical Energy Burst is done should be something she is capable of too.
Also training against somebody like her will allow our EotM to rise to B at least, A if we're really lucky.

>>3841051
Hang on now, don't write her off so hastily. She can also teach you how to lead a completely dysfunctional and self-destructive court until the nation collapses!

>>3841058
>A if we're really lucky
Get real, we're not getting EoTM A w/o a sacrifice. Mana Burst C and EoTM B maybe with some VERY intense training.

>>3841060
And how to be a bad father(?) and to be perfectly fine as some other guy bones your wife, even though you were never even interested in your wife like that but forced into the marriage due to dick wizard.

>>3841055
Why don't you see her as a valuable ally?
Just because we beat her with a cheap shot that only Alberich (or Sakura) can pull off doesn't mean she's not really fucking strong
>>3841060
I think you mean "she can also teach you how to basically rely on Agravain and Merlin to do everything until one gets killed and the other gets trapped"

>>3841062
Matsuda might have a skill that enhances his combat skill gain, but he still got to A fighting against far less skilled and far less powerful partners than Saber. I don't think EotM:A is impossible

As for Mana Burst, if Alberich understands the concept behind it (It's literally just using a lot of magical energy to boost yourself) he could easily replicate it to A.

>>3841060
Well what do you think would happen when you are taught how to rule a country from a eccentric wizard who has some weird ass fetishes.

>>3841072
She's an inferior swordsman, her best weapon literally won't be able to hit an opponent as wily and powerful as Odin, and if we need her to beat assassin I'll eat my hat.

Also, I think you underrate the level of mastery an A level skill implies. Not even a 400 iq can get a skill to A tier that we don't even have yet within a Grail-war timeframe.

>>3841077
Mordred has A rank Mana Burst and she's as intelligent as a sack of rocks. If she could figure it out so can we.
It's really not like Mana Burst is a complex thing.
Alberich has trained his Transference already.

>She's an inferior swordsman
Yet she knows the perfect moves to make, which would therefore allow anyone training against her to quickly gain experience by noticing the flaws in their fighting style.

>Her best weapon won't be able to hit Odin
I mean, Excalibur might if we play our cards right.
>if we need her to beat assassin I'll eat my hat
An extra Servant is always useful when you're up against somebody that likes to strike from the Shadows, especially one with limited future sight that can tell when a sneak attack is coming.

Would Ayaka even be okay with sacrificing Saber at this point?
Killing and absorbing someone who's actively trying to kill us is in the heat of combat one thing, but doing so to a powerless prisoner might stray a little too close to the traumatizing sacrifices from Ayaka's childhood.

>>3841076
>Well what do you think would happen when you are taught how to rule a country from a eccentric wizard who has some weird ass fetishes.
Don't forget "DUDE WHAT IF I MADE THE KING A GIRL WOULDN'T THAT BE WEIRD?" or the fact that he's pretty clearly not an ally of humanity and is just fucking about.

>>3841083
>Yet she knows the perfect moves to make, which would therefore allow anyone training against her to quickly gain experience by noticing the flaws in their fighting style.
How many times do I have to say that I see the value in training with her before you stop adding that gratuitously to your arguments for bringing her into the field.

>>3841085
If Ayaka can't sacrifice some human-shaped mass of autistic energy she should be replaced as our master ASAP.

>>3841096
>How many times do I have to say that I see the value in training with her before you stop adding that gratuitously to your arguments for bringing her into the field.
I was saying that as a reason as to why she might be a possible way to get EotM(T):A. She's kind of the perfect sparring partner for us.

As for bringing her into the field, why would we waste the battle potential of a Top-tier Saber in her own right by not using her against our enemies?

>If Ayaka can't sacrifice some human-shaped mass of autistic energy she should be replaced as our master ASAP
You're going to make her cry anon.
You don't want that do you?

>>3841088
It was more "AH FUCK THE CHILD IS A GIRL? FUCK! ... Oh well I can work with it."

And then he fucked off to a different realm and created the /d/ board for all of his fetishes.

>>3841105
>implying he didn't just do it on purpose to be a dick.
>when he literally has shown the capability to use penis magic.

>>3841108
Yeah you may be right about that part.

Jesus Christ poor Artoria.

>>3841096
Replaced by another master who happens to know how to sacrifice servants to empower us?

>>3841103
Because the investment for befriending her and establishing a system of fuel for her is a waste, relative to the gains we could get otherwise.

Also, maybe. Ranking barely 4th in affection rating is pathetic on her part.

>>3841126
Given that nobody seems to give a fuck about sacrifices anymore, I don't think it'll be a problem.

>>3841128
We have barely interacted with the girl.

Don't we have to kill saber to empower the grail?

>>3841133
We spent the entire first part of Awakening mirror with her.

>>3841136
Technically no. In addition to an expendable extra servant (Matsuda), I'm sure Odin is worth more than two servants.

>>3841128
>establishing a system of fuel for her is a waste
But Kourakuhime literally already did that, she's just heavily limiting her right now.

You need to consider that she still ranks higher than a girl we brainwashed to like us, though.
We just need to do more knightly things to get her to like us more.
A Pegasus or something would go a long way.
Also actually interact with her for more than just protecting her.

>>3841136
Thankfully, Rider of Fuyuki exists, with zero chance of grail corruption!
Also Odin being a God likely counts as multiple souls.
Fuck he might be able to fill the grail by himself, Gil was worth like 5 fucking souls.

>>3841140
>expendable extra servant (Matsuda)
Is anyone actually willing to kill him though?
>I'm sure Odin is worth more than two servants.
How sure are you?

This isn't really something that should be left to chance.

>>3841137
Think compared to Circe/Adelheid, Lili how stuck like glue to us, and our sister who does care for us and was a ally in Akeldama.

Yeah its going to be decently low compared to them.

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>>3841132
>Given that nobody seems to give a fuck about sacrifices--
No, you retard. Sweets affirmed our suspicions about possible corruption, I want to make sure of it. Granted, Alberich hasn't thought about it yet.

>>3841142
I have a feeling Odin going into the grail would most likely purify it.

>>3841151
Me
Very. Also, I forgot about Medusa. As long as we get around to killing Odysseus at some point and don't fuck up killing Assassin like we seem to every time since we killed Roland.

>>3841151
>How sure are you?
Almost completely certain.
Gilgamesh is worth at least 3 (I think it was 5 though)
And Odin is almost certainly the same case.
It's not even leaving things to chance.
Asshole has more power coming off him when he gets serious than the fucking Lesser Grail does.
Or a fucking Excaliblast does.
>>3841161
Then that solves the possible "Manjew hiding out in the root connection" issue.
Still doesn't mean eating Saber is a good idea.

>>3841164
Hear me out, if we talk and plan with Odin for him to go into the grail and most likely into the root to purify it if we bring back the Age of the Gods (we can just not do it out of spite but that might backfire hard). Bonus points if we absorb his power.

That way its purified, we get the grail, and we get a nice power up. I am with you on the not eating Saber.

>>3841083
>Yet she knows the perfect moves to make, which would therefore allow anyone training against her to quickly gain experience by noticing the flaws in their fighting style.
That sounds like an amazing way to have Saber sabotage our training.

Assuming that recruiting Saber is impossible or not worth it, could we more fully absorb her energy with a ritual improved by Tsubaki and a bounded field preventing the grail from claiming her?

>>3841177
>Hear me out, if we talk and plan with Odin for him to go into the grail and most likely into the root to purify it if we bring back the Age of the Gods (we can just not do it out of spite but that might backfire hard). Bonus points if we absorb his power.
This is Shirou-tier blind optimism. Do you want to abolish command spells as well?

>>3841181
That is the hope.

I just realized something. What if by absorbing servants we fucked up the grail ritual?

>>3841181
>preventing the grail from claiming her
Wouldn't we need that energy?

>>3841188
Lily already told us that the energy we siphoned of isn't enough to endanger the ritual.

>>3841182
Says the person who wants to kill Alberich's brother even though there is a clear way to save him.

>>3841188
>>3841191
There's so much excess energy floating around in this war that we can afford one servant going missing

>>3841188
Lily hasn't voiced any complaints about it, so no.

>>3841181
>>3841187
Straight up attempting to absorb all of Saber's power and soul would fuck us up mightily. Because that's seriously just not a good idea for so many reasons.
>>3841188
We haven't so far. Lily seems to think it's fine.
>>3841180
If we actually allied ourselves with her, why would she?
Also, in what way?
If we're sparring with blunt swords and she obviously takes the incorrect move and gets hit, we can call her out on her shit.

>>3841194
>>3841197
Okay cool, I must have forgotten that.

>>3841195
You're damn right I want to kill that mongrel who tried to kill Alberich.

>>3841191
I theorize that part of the reason that we absorb such little energy in the ritual is that the Grail snatches most of it away before we can get to it. If we can disrupt that, then we should be able to fully absorb Saber's energy.

>>3841200
Fucking calm down Gil.
Please remember that Enkidu was sent to fuck your shit up too.

>>3841202
Anon, do you really think that incorporating Saber's entire existence into our own isn't going to have some pretty horrible drawbacks for us?

>>3841200
Do you think his first option is to kill us? No you idiot he was forced to. That is the whole thing of not being in debt to us so he can do what he is forced to and not feel like complete shit. Now its 90% like shit.

>>3841198
>If we actually allied ourselves with her, why would she?
Allied us how? What do we have to offer her when we can't give her the grail and she hates our guts?
>Also, in what way?
>If we're sparring with blunt swords and she obviously takes the incorrect move and gets hit, we can call her out on her shit.
And what if she makes a wrong move that isn't obviously incorrect? Or creates expectations by not taking shots of opportunities that someone in a life or death fight would?

>>3841210
Berserker is long dead anon. Now we are worried about Archer, Assassin, and Odin.

>>3841210
>going after a servant with a vagina was a mistake
We were technically chose to do that before we fought Saber, for different reasons.

>>3841212
There's a whole lot of literature out there about why "just following orders" doesn't fly anon. Maybe try reading some of it sometime.

>>3841210
>berserker
wut
Anon, the plan to absorb servants was always a stop-gap measure at best, it's not something we can rely on for the entire war, just now with Ayaka being unconscious proves how flimsy a plan it is.
Hell, it was pointless as soon as we found out that our dear sister has a NP that can directly strengthen us.
>>3841217
>Allied us how?
You underestimate just how desperate Saber is for the grail. We can actually offer to share the damn thing thanks to the unique circumstances of the war. As for her hating our guts, that's entirely her mistake which we should be able to correct her on. Alberich has tried to remain as honorable as possible when he fought her, so she'll probably feel like shit upon having her misconception cleared up.

>And what if she makes a wrong move that isn't obviously incorrect?
I think you're really overestimating her here.
Instinct is kind of all or nothing. It's not true combat mastery so shit like this is kind of off the table.

>>3841224
I am 100% certain that if he had a choice he would not have attacked us.

>>3841224
You know this would be a more powerful argument if Adelheid wasn't a thing.
Also it's a fucking stupid sentiment.

If my choices are either :

>Follow Orders and kill people
or
>Don't follow orders and get myself killed
I think I know what one the person interested in not dying would pick.

>>3841229
He did want to have a duel (maybe not to the death, who knows?).
But originally, before he collapsed he was looking for us to find out what the hell happened.

From his perspective he was a dead man walking.

>>3841224
Also another thing. When there are things called Command Seals yeah "just following orders" does fly.

>>3841232
Yeah he would probably love to have a sparring session but not outright attack us.

>>3841236
There's also the fact that at that moment, Matsuda still just thought that Rushorou was some guy he met in a weird magical battle royale that he helped teach how to fight for a week.
And not his brother.

>>3841229
>>3841230
>>3841233
>>3841236

Wow, he sure did resist those orders and try not to kill Alberich. He seemed SO broken up about it and unwilling to do it. Oh wait, he embraced the battle with relish and only fucked off after Alberich broke his face. Gee, funny how that works.

>>3841240
>only know battle
>enjoy battling
Woah...

>>3841240
He's got fightan autism give him a break.
When we meet him next, we can explain everything to him.
I doubt he ever would've tried that shit if he realised the connection.

Inb4 Odin is playing the role of Antaglio too.

>>3841083
Mordred and Artoria are not magi, though. They don't have Magical Energy Burst because they learned it, they have it (just like all of Seiba's abilities) because of natural talent.

>>3841260
Are you saying that learning the basics behind it is impossible?
Because it sure looks simple.

>>3841240
Ow wow gee, he loved to battle. Its not like he thought to himself "Man I sure want to betray Rushorou. Fuck that guy right?"

He still thought he was Matsuda for Christ sake.

>>3841247
>>3841249
>>3841266

>Enjoy fighting people, ideally in the most intense and real way (ie- to the death)
>This means that all of your actions are excusable because of natural inclination.
Fascinating stuff. I suppose Keiseki should forgive his brother Alberich for his love of self and victory?

>>3841263
They have it because of their draconic blood. Is that something one can gain through training?

>>3841267
Keiseki shouldn't have tried to reason with an unstable murder machine after tricking him.
That's on him.
>>3841268
It's effectively just using your magical energy for burst power.
Mechanically it should be capable for a prodigy like Alberich to replicate the effects.

>>3841267
So you would rather kill him when he literally knows nothing about who he is or what he is and thus he had no idea what exactly he was doing besides being ordered most likely by Command Seal?

>>3840928
>[ ] "Not at all. Before you leave, though, tell me: it won't interfere with your barrier if I go in and have a look, will it? I'd like to be there when she wakes up." (Pride)
Oh, right, I need to vote.

>>3841263
How does it look simple?
Magical Energy Burst, essentially, is running an extremely powerful form of reinforcement through just one part of your body for a tiny fraction of a second without damaging yourself.
Reinforcement of one's own body is already highly difficult magic to do without accidentally going too far. ME Burst takes that and ratchets it up to the nth degree.

>>3841277
How does that change anything? Not knowing that he is our brother doesn't change much. Ultimately us being siblings is only our interpretation and it lacks the years of growing up together to give it much emotional impact.

>>3841292
Also, that magical energy has to be expelled.

>>3841292
Not to mention that our body is already extremely resistant to magical reinforcement as is.

>>3841292
I'll add two more points. First, it's worth pointing out that the only Servants with the original Magical Energy Burst skill are Artoria and Mordred. The various variants of the skill given to sundry other Servants all have some element attached, and the descriptions for them almost universally attribute them to some sort of divine blessing or inborn trait. This further makes it clear that Magical Energy Burst isn't something that is easily learned, even by a magical prodigy; otherwise, numerous Casters would have picked it up for self-defence at close range.
Second, you have no training with Reinforcement magic. It's going to be an incredibly harsh road to learn a skill derived from it.
>>3841301
>>3841304
Both good points.

>>3841294
Siblings, no that is more Alberich. Though I am pretty sure if you were technically an endangered species that would cease to exist you would most likely want to work with others like you.

>>3841294
Matsuda strikes me as a very individualistic guy. I doubt he shares our feelings about our so called family ties (which I still think are stupid)

>>3841323
Based anti-family anon

>>3841202
That's probably something you want to discuss with Ayaka.

>>3841323
>>3841330

But if we don't call ourselves a family, how will we have incest?

>>3841330
Don't get me wrong, I'm all about being allies with them if possible. But we don't have any deeper bond with them than with any of our actual human allies that were sucked into Akeldama

>>3841334
Fine but the only route on that path is Judas. Take what you will.

>>3841336

Speaking of, hadn't heard from him in a while. Would Angry Manjew corruption affect him rather than us?

>>3841354
i don't want dad to become an avenger

Is this one of those multiple update nights again?

>>3841413
Probably, yeah.

>>3841452
Excellent

>You are Alberich: knight, serial killer, familiar to two magi, dubiously related to the gods, and now a kidnapper.
What a quest.

>Four servants remain to fall by your sword
Odin, Odysseus, Assassin, and.... Saber? Matsuda? Medusa?

>>3841457
It doesn't really matter who the Servants are, so long as there are four of them.

>>3840928
>[ ] "Not at all. Before you leave, though, tell me: it won't interfere with your barrier if I go in and have a look, will it? I'd like to be there when she wakes up." (Pride)

>>3841457
Odysseus, Odin, Assassin, Seibah
>>3841471
>tfw we will never get 0 servants because circe and adelheid will always be here

>>3841480
More than that, Alberich himself is a Servant. If you want there to be 0 Servants in the quest that's a pretty major stumbling block.
If you just mean "zero Servants remain to fall by your sword," then it doesn't matter who the extras alive are at the end. Just kill four, and the Grail will be full.
If I were you I'd go for Assassin, Archer, Lancer, and Rider, but of course the choice is yours.

>>3841484
>then it doesn't matter who the extras alive are at the end
phew

>>3841496
Why would it?

>>3841310
But not impossible though.
Not something we can really have as a goal for learning for the war though. Guess we'll just have to stick to learning other magic and training against her Instinct.

>>3841335 #
We kinda do.
Being the only two people on the planet (and technically only two other members of your species) that can understand your situation does sort of help matters.
As for our bonds only being as strong as the humans we met, consider that the bonds formed in Akeldama are the only interactions the children of Judas have ever had truly belonging to them.

Matsuda unknowingly tried to kill noth his brother and only friend

In Darkness - November 20, 2019, Wednesday, Small Hours of the Morning

It was all happening again. Abandoned by her Master and outmaneuvered by an enemy, Saber was led into the maw of the shadow, surrounded by that loathsome darkness, and plunged into the abyss; soaked in gnawing, hollow need, every inch of her invaded by that desire, that hunger, that unreasoning, insatiable demand for obedience, and when she awoke she knew she would be-

Saber blinked into consciousness as herself, which came as some surprise. She was sitting up, in what felt like a straight-backed stone chair, with a back that extended past her head and armrests that included stone bonds. A particularly unpleasant detail, she observed, was that rather than shackles, the bonds were in fact intricately carved stone hands, tightly gripping her wrists. Worse than the grasping stone, though, for those she could have easily broken under ordinary circumstances, was a constriction of her magical energy supply that left Saber feeling as weak as a kitten. The meager energy Shirou had provided had been bad enough, but this was still worse; only the barest trickle of energy, enough to keep her alive and no more, reached the Servant.

Taking stock of her surroundings, Saber observed carved into the stone floor about half a meter away from her an odd formation, possibly a magic circle. Between two rings were a number of right angles set at even intervals, as if being the corners of numerous squares rotated about the central point of Saber's position. In front of her and to either side, Saber could count sixteen points. Probably, then, there were thirty-two in all, made up of eight squares; but what did that mean?

No point in wondering about the details of the formation, though, if the purpose of the thing were clear enough, Saber supposed. If that thing was a magic circle, it must be a barrier to restrict her further. This notion was further reinforced by the odd ring of papers just outside the carved circle. A number of rectangular strips of paper, inscribed with an eastern script, floated in the air in another circle around Saber. As she watched, they bobbed up and down seemingly at random as, in unison, the ring turned about Saber.

Then her eyes had adjusted enough to the gloomy chamber that Saber could get a good look at the walls, at that moment she saw him. Pearly white hair, combed and styled into a businessman's coif; a black suit, with deep red pinstripes; a pale face, handsome as a classical statue's and quite as lively; and most striking of all, red eyes. Not the bright ruby-red of the Einzberns' eyes, but a darker color. A red that Saber had seen far more often in her life than those bright jewels, for it appeared before her eyes at every duel and joust, and so much had pooled in the great battles that it seemed she had reached Camlann by wading through a sea of that heinous color. This was the red that marred Saber's vision as she heard her would-be heir's last words, and the red that had spread below her when she appealed to the World. It was also the red of her previous Master's eyes. Not Emiya Shirou, but the last one to command Saber's obedience: Matou Sakura, corrupted and led down the path of indulgence and destruction by Angra Mainyu.

He had traded his cape and armor for modern clothing, but there was no doubt in Saber's mind about the man's identity. This was Avenger, the Servant who had masqueraded as another Saber until finally abandoning the pretense and swallowing Saber up in his shadow. The only question, then, was why she now found herself here and sane, rather than next awakening as a puppet on some new battlefield.

There was no answer to be found in Avenger's face. He eyed her lazily, lounging on a half sofa that Saber couldn't help noticing looked like a far more comfortable seat than her own. It was constructed of heavy wood carved into floral patterns of vines, grapes, fruit, and the like, and lined with bulging red velvet cushions. As Avenger lolled on the couch, waiting for a reaction from his captive, one foot clad in a black sock hung off the edge, towards the ground. He was certainly at his ease.

"So, dear lady, you have finally awoken," he began with a smile, that smooth baritone voice bespeaking refinement in its very timbre. "I trust you find the accommodations to your liking? Ah, but you must excuse me." He feigns shame at a breach of etiquette, a sarcastic gleam in those bloody eyes. "I would call you Saber, but it is a title we share. Perhaps, then, we can start once again with names. My name is Alberich; and you are?"

Why? The question echoed through Saber's mind. Why must he keep up the charade of being this Alberich? It can hardly be to draw information out of Saber, for if he had simply done as he had fifteen years ago, swallowed her up and forced her to submit, then surely he could have any information he desired of her. So why this focus on rejecting the name of Avenger, and on learning her true name as if he were unfamiliar with her?

Then it hit her, at last: inspiration. Perhaps she had been ascribing too much intelligence to Avenger. It was, after all, an unborn thing waiting to be set free from the Greater Grail. Indeed, one could see its actions fifteen years ago entirely as a response to Sakura's desires, warped and enhanced though they were by Avenger's evil. The Servant itself could have been unconscious, then, moving only with the will of its Master. Perhaps, this Alberich was living the same way as Sakura; without the knowledge that Avenger should have access to, and perhaps without even the knowledge of what has made him its host. With that idea in mind, Saber could finally allow herself to answer the question.

"I am Arturia Pendragon," she proclaimed, with as much dignity as she could muster under the humiliating circumstances. "King of Britain."

"King Arthur, indeed," Alberich mused, looking at her with renewed interest. "Yet hardly a king, by your appearance. But then, I suppose it is not surprising for the recorders of legends to make such errors, particularly with regards to heroes." With a malicious smile, he continued, "It would certainly be embarrassing, in the age of chivalry, for the great knights of the day to admit that their finest example out of legend was a mere slip of a girl; so Arturia becomes Arthur." He paused again, his malevolent smile growing as a new thought struck. "Ah, but I'm jumping to conclusions," he continued. "You called yourself king a moment ago. Can that be the title you desired, then? Were you using that boyish figure of yours to deceive the nobility into believing you were a man?"

A blush threatened to color Arturia's cheeks at the easy discovery of her deception's nature, but with great effort she suppressed it. It would not do to show weakness before this, the greatest of her enemies. Even so, she could not meet his eyes and keep her composure. She could only star down at the polished stone floor, suppressing her rage, fear, and shame, and shutting out the hateful visage as best she could.

"So that's it then," Alberich continued, taking her silence for an affirmative. "It seems that I've gotten my hands on a very intriguing hero, doesn't it? A chivalrous knight who attacks by surprise and leaves her enemies for dead, a king who hides the truth of her sex, a person accustomed to rule reduced to abject servitude... you are full of contradictions, aren't you?"

>[ ] Write in what you'd like to ask or say to Arturia once the perspective returns to Alberich.

Since you've been wanting some interludes with other characters' perspectives on Alberich, and since I enjoyed writing the Archer imprisonment interlude, I decided to run with the theme and write the beginning of your conversation with Seiba from her perspective.

>>3841642
>"Even now you persist in your hateful delusions, refusing to look upon my face. Your hatred for this 'Avenger' must be truly frightening...'
>'Why is it, I wonder, that you bother to invent these fables? Surely you yourself must recognize how baseless and absurd your story sounds. The title is reminiscent of the classes held by the summoned Servants, and yet no such class exists; you claim to have met this nemesis fifteen years ago, and yet no Servant could survive so long after a Holy Grail War; you believe I am the very same Servant, and yet you have seen my holy sword, the mark of a true Saber. What can I even avenge except for the dignity you've sullied?"
>"Explain yourself, if you can even do that, or admit that I am not Avenger."

>>3841657
But she hasn't called us Avenger yet
She was thinking it, sure.
Didn't say it though.
The only thing that she has told us is that she is King Arthur.

>>3841665
>But she hasn't called us Avenger yet
The last time we met, though, she did. Let's find out why.

>>3841642
>"As for my introduction, I understand that simply 'Alberich' isn't a satisfying answer, as you have made amply clear in the past. So I shall tell you the truth. One week ago, the Caster of this war activated his Noble Phantasm, 'Akeldama'.
>"He deceived his Master into believing it was a large scale ritual designed to drain power from a large number of people for the sake of empowering himself. Of course, the actual purpose wasn't to empower himself at all..."
>"Caster had created four artificial souls with memories belonging to other people which would receive the energy of the ritual."
>"The ritual in question being a Holy Grail War, meant to be fought to the death between all 1050 participants. The only way home was to claim victory and the wish that came with it. I was a Master in that war, and believed myself to be an 18 year old high school student at the time.
>"Of the participants Judas summoned, only 4 other than myself survived. 2 of the artificial souls created by Judas who I met shortly after my arrival to a burning city, a female magus and a normal High-School girl who had been dragged into the war."
>"after defeating all the other Masters and Servants, Caster revealed there was never any wish and that the only true way to leave was with his death or with everyone else's, so I struck him down.
>"But while my two human allies were sent home, my siblings and I had something different in store. The energy of over 1000 humans and 7 Servants was used to alter us. I became the Saber you see before you, my sister became a Caster and my brother became a Lancer."
>"So no, Arturia. I am not Avenger."

The truth bomb option.

>>3841670
We already know enough from Shirou, Saber and Rin to draw some sort of conclusion.

>>3841687
We shouldn't tell her so soon...
>>3841688
She doesn't know that we know.

my id's going to change a few times, huh

>>3841690
Why shouldn't we tell her?
If we don't she's just going to continue operating under the illusion that we're Angra Mainyu.
We need to destroy that illusion of hers.
She's not going anywhere.

And where does asking her pointless questions we already mostly know the answer to get us?
She's explained why she thinks we're Avenger to a degree in our battles.

>>3841693
>Why shouldn't we tell her?
>telling her that we are the son of judas the archtraitor
That sounds like a great way to lose her potential trust forever.

>>3841698
Notice I only ever said Caster though.
We could avoid saying Akeldama too.

Better she thinks that we're a son of Judas instead of literally evil incarnate, too. It's not like parentage has ever put her off of trusting people.
Agravain was Morgan's son. Literally her Arch-nemesis' son and she trusted him massively.
We'll have to tell her some time if you want her trust at all.
She'll never trust anything we say when she's under the Angra delusion.

>>3841642
> "I don't have many questions for you, Lady Artoria, though I admit I am curious about some facts. First of all, tell me about this Avenger. It seems the figure left quite an impression on you."
> "I am not going to ask about your Master, as I suppose a Knight would not divulge their Master's secrets -- yet, I would like to know why, do you think, your Master left you with me?"
> "Only two questions remaining: since our last fight, did you see the other Servants? Might you describe them for me?"
> "Last question, Lady Artoria. To my regret, a couple going by the name of Emiya Shirou and Sakura have been... Antagonistic to this Holy Grail War, and seek its end. While I have been trying to reason with the two, the man seems particularly fixed on denying my, or, our, continued existence. It is to my understanding that you know the man, right? Any advice on dealing with the situation with as little, ah, bloodshed as possible?"

>>3841704
>Notice I only ever said Caster though.
>>"Of the participants Judas summoned, only 4 other than myself survived. 2 of the artificial souls created by Judas who I met shortly after my arrival to a burning city, a female magus and a normal High-School girl who had been dragged into the war."
>We could avoid saying Akeldama too.
Do that too.
>Better she thinks that we're a son of Judas instead of literally evil incarnate, too.
Is there much difference in a Christian's mind?
She's not very faithful, no, but what are the odds that she'll be all smiles?

Listen, just repeat that without any mention of "Judas" or "Akeldama" and it'll be fine. But please, please, don't tell her that Judas made us.

>>3841710
That's way too respectful.
Alberich wouldn't call her "Lady"
She also has no reason to be truthful.
Basically it just seems immensely deceptive and she'll probably tell us to fuck off.

>>3841642
>>3841687
Exclude the name of akeldama though

>>3841716
Oh whoops.
WELL I MEANT to only say Caster, but when there are 3 characters sharing the damn moniker, the subconcious does dumb shit.
But yeah.
No mentioning tha name Judas or Akeldama on this.
>>3841687
Please.

>>3841687
I'll just slightly adjust this to make sure.

>"As for my introduction, I understand that simply 'Alberich' isn't a satisfying answer, as you have made amply clear in the past. So I shall tell you the truth. One week ago, the Caster of this war activated his Noble Phantasm.
>"He deceived his Master into believing it was a large scale ritual designed to drain power from a large number of people for the sake of empowering himself. Of course, the actual purpose wasn't to empower himself at all..."
>"Caster had created four artificial souls with memories belonging to other people which would receive the energy of the ritual."
>"The ritual in question being a Holy Grail War, meant to be fought to the death between all 1050 participants. The only way home was to claim victory and the wish that came with it. I was a Master in that war, and believed myself to be an 18 year old high school student at the time.
>"Of the participants Caster summoned, only 4 other than myself survived. 2 of the artificial souls created by Caster who I met shortly after my arrival to a burning city, a female magus and a normal High-School girl who had been dragged into the war."
>"after defeating all the other Masters and Servants, Caster revealed there was never any wish and that the only true way to leave was with his death or with everyone else's, so I struck him down.
>"But while my two human allies were sent home, my siblings and I had something different in store. The energy of over 1000 humans and 7 Servants was used to alter us. I became the Saber you see before you, my sister became a Caster and my brother became a Lancer."
>"So no, Arturia. I am not Avenger."

Removed the Judas and Akeldama mentions.

>>3841642
Switching from >>3841657 to >>3841728.
thanks

>>3841642
>>3841728

>a pale face, handsome as a classical statue's
Thanks, Seibah.
>This was Avenger, the Servant who had masqueraded as another Saber until finally abandoning the pretense
Don't be such a sore loser Saber. Maybe if you weren't such a brute you could've been taught magic by Merlin.
>that smooth baritone voice bespeaking refinement in its very timbre
This is the first time we've ever actually read somebody else's thoughts on Alberich. Isn't it? What a guy.
> "You called yourself king a moment ago. Can that be the title you desired, then? Were you using that boyish figure of yours to deceive the nobility into believing you were a man?"
An astute observation. Alberich is quite intelligent indeed.
>A blush threatened to color Arturia's cheeks at the easy discovery of her deception's nature, but with great effort she suppressed it
>almost making somebody who despises you blush.
Impressive.

>>3841717
Well he wouldn't call her Lady outside of heavy sarcasm, which isn't the tone you seem to be going for.

>>3841657
>>3841642
Support

File: OH NO.png (226 KB, 345x355)

226 KB PNG

>>3841779
>a pale face, handsome as a classical statue's
>that smooth baritone voice bespeaking refinement in its very timbre
>A blush threatened to color Arturia's cheeks

>>3841878
We really are going to end up getting Predatory Charisma.

>>3841824
I think he'd so to both put up a pretense of chivalry to accentuate the difference between him and Angry Manju and him and Artoria's behaviour during their battles, and to underscore her being a woman given that it's something he recognises as a weakness he can use to humiliate and manipulate her. He's basically reminding her of the difference between her dastardly girly self and the knightly, dignified manly warrior that is Alberich.

>>3841642
So you believe that I'm tainted by this Angra Mainyu? Why? Is it because of my appearance? My behavior? My magic?

Or is it because it's you who is still influenced by him and you refuse to acknowledge it? That some part of you wants return to what you became in the last War?

>>3841910
>Or is it because it's you who is still influenced by him and you refuse to acknowledge it? That some part of you wants return to what you became in the last War?
Isn't that a lot of meta knowledge?

>>3841901
The problem of being overly "knightly" right now is she'll just assume Angra Mainyu is mocking her and refuse to cooperate with our questions.

Especially with the whole bringing up Shirou and Sakura thing.
That's an awful thing to do for the sake of this conversation.

>>3841929
Not only is it Meta-knowledge, it fails to accomplish anything other than pissing Saber off.
Pretty much just "no u."

Hey guys.
Wanna know something fun?
We can probably abuse Broken Phantasm mechanics.
Heilig is truly unbreakable right?
So what happens if we supercharge it to make it a Broken Phantasm? It wouldn't actually be able to break from it.

>>3841948
What is your point? It's not going to break or get a benefit from it, so why should we do it?

>>3841779
Its shame at being caught out, not a romantic blush at all.

>>3841948
If this was such a good idea, then why didn't you see Roland doing it when he realized we were an asshole? He just used Orlando Furioso.
Maybe you just can't use an unbreakable sword as a Broken Phantasm.

>>3841954
I know it isn't.
But nearly blushing in front of what you think is the incarnation of evil is a poor look no matter how you look at it.
>>3841952
Broken Phantasms are a rank higher than normal, so Heilig should be A+ when charged.
>>3841955
Roland wasn't thinking very clearly when we turned his horse into a spine Roland is sorta known for getting incredibly angry and we just murdered his horse then shit talked it.

Lancelot does something like this by supercharging Arondight, which is also indestructible.

>>3841965
>Broken Phantasms are a rank higher than normal, so Heilig should be A+ when charged.
Great and that does what for us? Our sword already cuts pretty much anything, giving it a small rank up will not be useful and waste mana.

>>3841965
>Roland wasn't thinking very clearly
He was thinking clearly enough to pull out a bottle and put his wits into it.
>Lancelot does something like this by supercharging Arondight, which is also indestructible.
A: That's an F/GO thing.
B: The description says "This Noble Phantasm is something close to a sword skill, which deliberately refrains from emitting the magic energy that would originally turn into a slash of light". That seems more like he's holding back a swordbeam and using it as a slash instead.

>>3841969
Bigger Rift Slashes?
Faster Rift Slashes?
The ability to overcome Defensive abilities that work off rank better?
Who knows.
Just saying that it's something we should consider.

>>3841971
>he was thinking clearly enough to go absolutely mental
He was fucking pissed, anon.
>That's an F/GO thing
So?
>holding back a swordbeam
That's the sort of thing that usually breaks a sword, yes.

It's just something worth looking into.
Being able to pull out an A+ NP whenever we need to is somewhat advantageous.

>>3841974
>Bigger Rift Slashes?
>Faster Rift Slashes?
Why not put the extra mana into the slashes instead which has a higher chance to actually do anything useful?
>The ability to overcome Defensive abilities that work off rank better?
At A rank I can't think of any NP where it would make any real difference if it was A or A+ rank.

>>3841979
In a clash between NPs it might make the difference.

Also there's Tiamat, but we'd need an A++ attack to damage her.

>>3841983
Even Excalibur with a higher ranking than HOS woould have lost a direct clash, because our sword is almost made to destroy NPs. There is no NP in this war we could clash with where an extra plus would make a difference.

And why the hell would we need to attack Tiamat if we don't summon her up? Also it would be A+ not A++ so we would still fall short.

>>3841929
>>3841940
>"Protest all you like," comes the cold reply. "You cannot dissuade me from the evidence of your own powers, Avenger. I will not be a tool in your schemes a second time."

>"You had few enough qualms about acting as a pawn at our last meeting," you spit. "Where was this independent spirit when you left me to die on your Master's orders, rather than giving me the honorable death a knight deserves?"

>"A wretch who lies about his name and nature has no honor." The other Saber doesn't flinch in the face of your wrath, her expression of frigid contempt remaining static. "As a Servant, I am bound to act as my Master's sword. Fifteen years ago you defiled that bond with your corruption, and now you insult it. I am not surprised."
I don't think it's too much of a leap to come to that conclusion. It's meant to make her doubt herself and doubt that we're Avenger.

>>3841986
I know, but my point was saying there are entities with defences good enough to ignore even A rank attacks and above.
Also a straight up rift slash vs Excaliblast would likely end with the rift being overpowered and destroyed or some shit

Also the collateral damage would melt us.
We could've cut through Akhilleus Kosmos though.
>>3841991
It's still doesn't accomplish much though.
We need to do something Avenger wouldn't do.
Avenger would totally tell Saber she's already corrupted.

>>3841642
This >>3841728
and I would like to add

>"So Lady Arturia, why do you go after the grail? Is it to return to the time of your death in which your son betrayed or murdered you? Is it to incarnate and retake your rightful place ruling England?"

>>3841642
Supporting >>3841728

>>3842007
I meant "and" not "or"

>>3841992
A straight conflict between one of your portal slashes and a beam from excalibur would end with the two attacks going through each other. Remember that the portal is no wider than Heiligöffnungschwert's thickness. The portal would draw in a portion of the beam and go through it, but the part of the light that didn't hit the portal would continue and vaporize you.

>>3842007
Even if she didn't hate us she wouldn't want to reveal that to us.
Especially considering just what a showing of weakness it truly is.
>"I actually want to wish on the Holy Grail to delete my Kingdom from history because I fucked everything up like a retard"
It's also really a fucking stupid wish.
Alberich would probably laugh at her for a good minute or so.

>>3842013
Well there goes the dream of beam clashes.
So we're just Mutually Assured Destruction against beamswords?
And then there's Enuma Elish which would just totally destroy the portal because "Ea GG"

>>3842015
Your sword doesn't shoot a beam, so yeah.
Beam clashes are definitely out.

>>3842016
Then she's right in not considering us a Saber.

>>3842016
Alberich is such a fucking cheater I swear to God.
>can't safely beam clash him otherwise it's MAD
>cloak acts as a bullshit defence against anything, from melee to ranged.
>can't clash with his sword otherwise you automatically lose
>he can use magic that can ignore conventional Magic Resistance

He's like the Anti-Saber Saber.

>>3842023
>The Anti-Saber Saber
Huh. So his real fated love was Mysterious Heroine X, all along...

>>3842016
>>3842019
Someday we'll summon enough monsters to outbeam a million Excaliblasts.

>>3842040
Quickly, summon 10 million Pegasi!
Or I don't know... Tiamat?

I seriously hope for their sakes that Shirou and Rider don't attempt the Rho Aias + Bellerophon Combo against Alberich.
It will probably end up going immensely poorly for the two of them.

Also another reason for Kenotis being bullshit OP is that unlike Rho Aias it doesn't actually damage you from blocking attacks and has the bonus feature of getting rid of the thing attacking you.
I do wonder how it would've interacted with Caladbolg though, that space twisting effect might mess with it. Or it might just pass through completely and do nothing.

Sometimes I forget just why Anti-World is generally considered the most overpowered classification to have. It's because they all tend to be fucking broken.

>>3842028
Together they will wipe out all Sabers across the universe.

>>3842051
Now you get it. Kenótis is fine just the way it is.

>>3842055
Anons just get a little hung up on number rankings I think.
I mean, considering the "Fuck this Grail War" NP that is Rule Breaker is only Rank C you shouldn't take number ranks as gospel.

Here's a question, If Medea Rule Breaker'd Cu, would it also destroy all of the Geas he amassed over his life?

>>3842070
I think it has to target a specific spell. If it destroyed all binding magic attached to the target, stabbing a Servant would break their connection to the Grail and immediately kill them.

>>3842028
But his real fated love has to be some form of relative for those extra albino antihero vibes we have going.

>>3842104
So....
Kourakuhime?

>>3842106
And final confrontation should be against Matsuda.

>>3842112
That doesn't make much sense.
Matsuda can't really hold on for much longer unless he gets another mana source (Akagata or Haruo if Circe didn't execute them, maybe?) And he won't be getting stronger by fighting other opponents because they sort of all died.
Also he'll definitely want answers if he didn't Judas himself when he saw Matsuda.

Meanwhile training with Seibah will increase our skill quite quickly.

I stand by Instinct being perfect to train against.
Really helps correct any flaws we might have in our style if she plays along due to it's nature.
Theoretically it shouldn't be impossible to get A rank EotM(true) without sacrificing a Servant if this method works out.

>>3842129
Anon, it was just another Elric joke.

But I do agree that physical training might give us upgrade in skill levels or new skills altogether.
However, despite being Saber our stronger and most useful tool in this war so far were our tendrils and magic. So it is probably be more beneficial to invest time into magic studies.

>>3842137
You say that, but we'll definitely need A rank EotM to tango with Odin.

Magecraft that uses the same principles as the place the Gods are currently living that works best on spiritual entities in might not work on a God of Magic with a physical body.

Knight's Strategy/Knight Tactics would also be very nice to develop if it's possible.

Also, we're gonna have to teach Kourakuhime how to defend herself without being forced to rely on her magic.
She's a God Damn Oni.
Her physical potential is immense.
She just needs some practice.

What happens, for example when she meets an enemy that can counter her magic?
Or when she's fighting against somebody faster than she can react in time to?

As much as it pains me to force her into doing, she's going to have to train too.
If we can get her physical Parameters to C and give her some actual combat experience I'll be much more confident.

>>3841779
>This is the first time we've ever actually read somebody else's thoughts on Alberich. Isn't it?
It is that. I thought you folks might enjoy it, and I've been wanting to give a bit of commentary on Alberich's appearance from a character not positively inclined towards him.
It helps justify the whole "numerous capture targets" thing if even someone with every reason to hate him has to admit that Alberich has top-grade looks.

>>3842179
It was really enjoyable.
All interludes we had so far added a lot to make other characters feel more alive.

>>3842179
Yeah I do like the interludes a lot.
The added perspectives really help.

Alberich from Saber's perspective really presented him in a different light that his own perspective didn't really show.

He's strong
He's intelligent
He's attractive
He's well spoken
He's got incredible magic potential
He's reliable

Him attracting women isn't strange at all.

>>3842219
You forgot
>His soulless eyes look like pools of blood

...that might be Arturia's bias, though.

>>3842233
She liked them. She just didn`t want to admit it to herself like she always do.

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>>3842233
She's just had multiple bad experiences with people with red eyes.
Besides, blood red is aesthetically the cooooolest colour.

>>3842239
>has a negative Affection Score

>>3842241
>Zippo lighter earrings
I will never understand Gilgamesh's fashion sense.

>>3842242
That's just because she thinks we're the devil.
We've been nothing but a gentleman to her.

Uh.
Well, we didn't murder her when she decided to go to sleep.
I mean.
Technically we ARE following Rule 47 of the Geneva Convention, which prohibits attacking Persons Hors de Combat.

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>>3842246
I understand it.

I understand that it's shit.

>>3842263
>>3842246
Mongrels

>>3842319
fashion disaster

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>>3842319
>when you have access to any piece of clothing ever designed and you choose to dress like this.

>>3842337
Now, if it had been a tiger-patterned blazer, that would've been the height of style.

>>3842344
>t. flat

So, how do you think Seibah will respond to the full story of Akeldama?
Do you think she'll believe it?
If she does, how bad will she feel?

>>3842374
I doubt that she would; it sounds incredulous to anybody who's unaware of Caster's demise.

>>3842377
Well that's really up to Saber to be honest.
It makes more sense at least than the incarnation of evil repeatedly not being pure evil.

>>3842374
I`d imagine she will try to put her Charisma: B to use judging by her inner thoughts we witnessed.
But it would be pretty interesting to see how she will try to wiggle her way out of this situation.

>>3842392
I'm not sure if she'll be able to get much use out of it honestly.
Alberich is only D Rank in Charisma because he hasn't led a country or army.
It's not really representative of his actual Charisma.
His ability to analyse information is pretty fucking great too. (Turning Rider and Archer against each other by pointing out Archer's intent of betrayal and just now recognising the truth behind Saber's reign immediately.)

>>3842391
>than the incarnation of evil repeatedly not being pure evil
Dude's pretty chill, outside of his natural directive.

Now that I think about it: how did Ragnarok go over in Fate?

>>3842546
Kinda funny how that turned out, honestly.
Then again, there's a lot of Shirou influence going on there.
Hollow Ataraxia is fucky.
But Saber is still kinda under the impression that Avenger is pure evil anyway, I mean, she did get altered and twisted into an evil version of herself while she was forced to watch herself do terrible things.
You'd think whoever did that to you was pure evil too.

>>3842555
Why don't we ask the clearly not dead Odin?
Remember, Divine Spirits cannot be summoned as Servants if they die, as they do not go to the Throne.

>>3842564
>Divine Spirits cannot be summoned as Servants if they die, as they do not go to the Throne.
So what you're saying is that Ragnarok has yet to occur because the Age of Gods somehow ended before it?

>>3842573
It seems likely, yes.

>>3842564
Avenger was the big thing that irritated me about Hollow Ataraxia. It felt like there was no real connection between the character there and the embodiment of all evil and 7 billion curses depicted in Fate/Stay Night. Maybe he only has a tiny fraction of the evil that the version in the grail has.
>>3842573
Depends on the version of Ragnarok. Wagnerian Ragnarok could definitely have happened at the transition from the Age of Gods to the Age of Man, but Edda Ragnarok includes the death of all living things and creation of a new world. That's definitely still to come.
I'm not worried about telling you that stuff, because it's all background knowledge that Rushorou could have picked up while researching Adelheid, with a bit of inference thrown in.

>>3842574
Of course, don't let Ragnarok convince you not to bring back the Age of Gods, the Age of Man has it's share of near-apocalypses to actual apocalypses every once in a while too.
Difference is that Alaya will tend to try to avert them, and I'm not sure how the fuck the Gods in a new Age of Gods would go about prevent everyone's doomsday prophecies going off.

>>3842580
Yeah Avenger was way too nice there.
Like, I don't get why you would include Avenger as a character like that if you weren't going to make him at least a little bit evil.

>>3842620
HA was literally "Kirei was right: the game"

>>3842641
Kirei is also dead in HA.
Which is kind of a shame.
He's a fun character who could've had some entertaining scenes.

I mean...
I guess we got Caren.

>>3842580
Grail Avenger isn't servant Avenger. The Avenger in the grail of Stay Night is the wish that Avenger represents as a heroic spirit, which is for there to be some source aside from humans for all the evil in the world. Servant Avenger is a scapegoat who isn't actually special because any human can commit any evil deed.

>>3842659
I know that's true, but given the circumstances of HA I feel he should still have more of Grail Avenger about him.
Besides that, I don't feel his personality is all that suitable for a person who spent almost his entire life being tortured either.

If we do manage to make the Saber thing work out, at least Ayaka will have somebody in our faction other than us that doesn't hate her.
Matsuda will probably be able to get along with Ayaka too, I guess. But he's not really one for conversation.
Truvi is kind of a bitch but they might be able to get along? It depends on whether or not the Edelfelt take us up on our offer.

Kourakuhime despises her.
Lily despises her.
Circe will almost certainly also despise her.
Adelheid will probably dislike her too.

>>3842768
Honestly the only reason we're actually keeping ayaka around is because of that ritual
Otherwise she's basically a sack of potatos that we have to save from a mental breakdown every five minutes

>>3842782
Well, you'll certainly never be the love interest in a shoujo manga.

>>3842786
Could Alberich ever beat Shirou in a cook-off for Seibahs affections?

>>3842782
Why are you like this anon.
Ayaka is our Master, she doesn't deserve to be treated so poorly. She's a fantastic Master, all things considered.
Or would you prefer somebody like Truvi, physically assaulting us or trying to attack us with gandr?

>>3842790
Alberich cannot cook.
At least he can't until he bothers to learn.

>>3842790
>natural talent vs hardwork
A classic shonen battle

>>3842790
Probably not. If it was something you didn't know about in advance, you couldn't train. You're worse than Shirou now, so that's a loss.
If you had time to train, that'd presumably mean both you and Shirou knew about the contest. Since he'd train as well, you'd still end up losing.
Maybe you could do it if you spent a bunch of time training your cooking skills in secret, then challenged him to a sudden cook-off.

>>3842796
The sack of potatos doesn't usually get in our way alot sure, but aside from the ritual she can't really do much to help us at all
Lily would unironically be a better master

>>3842802
>Dream sharing immediately fucking ends our deception
Whoops!

Anon, Ayaka is a good girl. She's supportive of us and tries her best.
She also follows all of our orders and only used her command spell on us because she thought we were mocking her.
(she, like most girls in Rushorou's high-school, probably has or had an unrequited crush on the autist)
Even then, it turned out beneficial in it's own way.

Please, she doesn't deserve this bullying.

>>3842798
Ha!
We'd just have Circe mind control the judges.
Our victory is assured!

>>3842337
>>3842263
Speaking of fashion, we should get our sister into various outfits from every era of Japanese History. I bet she'd look good in a Heian Era outfit, maybe even a Taisho one too.

>>3842831
I think we need to get Kikuko back for that.
You know
Just for old time's sakes.

>>3842833
But she only knows about modern fashion. You don't want Kōrakuhime to look (horror of horrors) trendy, do you?

>>3842834
Indeed, we need our sister to look great in long flowing outfits that take hours to put on as well as a few handmaidens to assist!

>>3842834
How the hell would Tsubaki wear a t-shirt?

>>3842834
As amusing as it would be, she'd probably dislike the experience.
Again.
>>3842838
Luckily, magic can help her on the outfit situation.
>>3842839
Magic.

>>3842839
I don't think t-shirts are trendy in Japan. Even for gyaru, they seem too low-effort.

>>3842844
This is Oguwara we're talking about.

>>3842848
No. This is Kourakuhime.
Ogawara is someone else.

I'm half-tempted to romance Tsubaki just to see what's under there.
inb4 she's basically a mannequin

>>3842848
I thought we were talking about what Kikuko would pick out for your sister.

>>3842853
I don't think the empowerment would have difficulty turning Ogawara into a female considering it straight up turned her into an Oni.

>>3842848
Do you think he would like Japanese style maids, or Western style maids?

>>3842844
ymmv, i saw a buncha jk gals in t-shirts when bumming around tokyo a few months ago

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>>3842839
>t-shirt
Too low effort even for her. Go with a jacket. Get comfy.

>>3842867
Huh. I went to Tokyo for the summer last year, and the only ones I saw in t-shirts were young guys.

>>3842866
There were Japanese-style maids at his house growing up, so he prefers western-style.

I just realized that it's Thursday. Fug.

God damn our eventual Castle is gonna look like such a mess.
There's gonna be so many clashing design ideas it might as well be like 6 connected palaces

Do you think Alberich has realised how popular with girls at school Rushorou was yet?

>>3843164
He hasn't observed Rushorou at all, so no.

Some thoughts about Alberich's Origin and its relation to recent events:

We know that it's "Void". Void is the element representing "that which is possible but immaterial" -- in other words, the element of potential. That means Alberich's personality and actions will be influenced by the concept of "potential": is this the source of his talent?
We've seen that he can mould his blobs of Void into any sort of shape, from a sword to a tendril to a book (complete with text), and he's improved from making three tendrils at the most to completely restraining people like Artoria and Achilles in a few days without focused practice. It speaks to his talent, but it might also speak to the affinity his Origin has with elemental control of Void; however, since that's the only magecraft he knows, it's really impossible to gauge how his Origin affects his spells in general.
So far, we've gotten great results from only one element, but there are two more that Alberich has. Since Void and Nothingness together define materialization and existence, I can imagine that magecraft using those elements will be interesting; Ether is another interesting element that needs exploring when Circe finds us.

>>3843165
Yeah but he has all his memories with the new perspective of not having terrible autism. He should be able to realise from them.

The Robot that learned to love.
And also hate.
Usually it's hate.

>>3843168
>And also hate.
>Usually it's hate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EddX9hnhDS4

>>3843181
Calm down there, Tsubaki.

>>3843254
We really beed to do something about that.

>>3843258
How?
Like, I have no idea how we could possibly get her to like humans more.

It's really gonna be a challenge to get her not to despise them all.
She even hates poor Ayaka.
Do you have any ideas?

Maybe when all of our Servants are reunited she might stop being so autistic.
Circe will likely very quickly put an end to the pride she's got in her magic.

>>3843258
Why don't we give her the entirety of Akihabara?
Not sure what that will accomplish though.

>Alberich: [Get's pride]
>Tsubaki: [Get's pride]
>A: [Goes to battle against a Top lvl Servant].
>T: [Goes to battle against a Top lvl Master].
>A: [Wins].
>T: [Pic related].
She's so cute when she tries (and fails) to imitate her big brother.

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>>3843364
Forgot the pic

>>3843364
To be fair, Seibah stomped us the first time we fought.

More motivation for Tsubaki to want to get stronger.
None of the siblings are even close to reaching their potential.
As she's an Oni, she should probably be able to reach A rank physical parameters if she trained her body.

>>3843181
I don't think either of you hates humans quite that much.
>>3843369
That's going to be a fun talk.

>>3843369
>>3843392
>if she trained her body
>That's going to be a fun talk.
>"Kōrakuhime, I need to train your body."
I can see it.
Guess it is time to revamp those classical greek hero themes.

>>3843392
>I don't think either of you hates humans quite that much.
I know that WE don't but what about Tsubaki? If she just indifferent?

>>3843398
>>"Kōrakuhime, I need to train your body."
>I can see it.
We would be that blunt and unaware, would we?

>>3843401
>We would be that blunt and unaware, would we?
One word: Y E S

>>3843369
>As she's an Oni, she should probably be able to reach A rank physical parameters if she trained her body.
She's also a Caster, the class with the lowest aptitude for melee combat. The only ones with any significant fighting skill are Tamamo (had to put in a lot of training just to gain competence), Geronimo (has a skill just for it), Xuanzang (not even supposed to be summoned normally because she became a Buddha) and Merlin (it's supposed to be funny, I guess?). A grand total of four people with notable skills.

She would be better off learning to use her Demonic Nature of Oni skill and grinding for better Witchcraft, because if she has to fight with her fists at all the battle hasn't gone her way.
If you want to try, though, go ahead. This is just my opinion, and I could be wrong.

>>3843401
>We would be that blunt and unaware, would we?
even more so

>>3843401
She considers them as massively inferior and a resource to be used.
It's not like she's going out of her way to cause excessive carnage.

>that blunt and unaware
Sadly no, Alberich isn't actually dense. He might do it to tease her, though.

>>3843401
>We wouldn't be that blunt and unaware, would we?
Fixed it.

>>3843411
Except Shuten as an Assassin has A rank strength B rank endurance and B rank agility.
and as a Caster (kinda iffy with alternate forms) has C+ strength, B rank Endurance and B rank agility.

Just because she's a Caster doesn't mean she has to be totally fragile.
She's a fucking Oni, with all the physical potential of one.

>>3843415
>>3843419
You are forgetting about how we completely didn't understand Kōrakuhime`s comment on Ayaka being "territorial" with us.
Somebody really need to have the talk with Alberich.

>>3843426
The face of Yoshikage Kira: a man who offhandedly rejected all advances by his female coworkers.
The memories of Yumigawa Rushorou: a boy completely unaware of his own school idol status.
The inherited protagonist position of Emiya Shirou.
When it comes to romance, Alberich definitely falls on the denser side of things.

>>3843431
You mean to tell me we wouldn't know how to put pOnOs in vagOOO?

>>3843436
Maybe you can have Saber explain it for you.

>>3843444
Not by Kōrakuhime dressed as a teacher in our dream classroom?