“Where am I?” you ask. The only hint you have as to your whereabouts are the woman’s looks. Her appearance is an awful lot like Ilonasviel, with red eyes, pale skin, and white hair. Is she an Einzbern, too? Does that mean you’re in the hotel?

“You, in guest room. Badly injured.” The maid speaks with a soft, monotone voice, face inexpressive. Her speech pattern is slow, awkward, and incomplete, but it’s comprehensible nonetheless. She didn’t tell you exactly what you wanted to know, but it looks like you can get somewhere if you keep asking questions.

“Guest room?” your query continues. “Of what building?”

“Manor. City, not safe. Manor is outside city, so safe.”

Wait, a manor? The Einzberns have a mansion near the city? You’re surprised that neither of the files you found made any mention of it. Perhaps more confusing is the statement that the city isn’t safe. A hotel smack in the middle of downtown, where people are concentrated, should be impossible to prosecute the War in, shouldn't it? You elect not to ponder further, though, and focus on your more immediate problem.

“What direction is the city from here?”

“Mmm… That way,” the maid says, pointing across your body with her finger.

“I see,” you say, feeling a bit less than elucidated. However, you do, in a sense, know where you are now. “Thanks.”

“Mm.” She nods and smiles faintly, as though happy to have been of service.

At that moment, the door to the room past the foot of the bed opens, revealing the petite form of Ilonasviel. She looks just as surprised to find you awake as you are to see her here. Shouldn’t she be at the church?

“Ursula,” Ilonasviel orders the maid, “you are dismissed.”

“Yes, Ilona.” Ursula departs, carrying the massive weapon with her like it’s nothing.

“Are you feeling well?” Ilonasviel asks, sitting on the edge of the bed beside you.

“Sore, but a lot better than I was,” you reply. “Why are you here? I thought you were-”

“Silence,” Ilonasviel commands you, her countenance stern. “I’m asking the questions.” Your inquiry is cut off more by your own astonishment than any authority of Ilonasviel’s. She’s almost unrecognizable from the terrified, defeated Master you met before. Her statement clearly indicates that you are a prisoner being interrogated. Whatever happened while you were unconscious, it completely inverted the positions you and she held not too long ago - or at least, it was brief in your perception.

“Why did you take me to the church?” your captor carries on. “You could have killed me, or left me, or taken me prisoner. Explain yourself."

>>”I didn’t want you to get hurt. It seemed like the best way to ensure your safety.”
>>”I didn’t want to kill you, but I wanted to remove you from the War. I took you there to prevent another Servant from contracting with you.”
>>”I wanted to get to know you. I thought we’d have more chances to talk if you were there.”
>>Don’t say anything.
>>(Write-in)

>>3829873
>>”I didn’t want you to get hurt. It seemed like the best way to ensure your safety.”

It seems like the most pure option for our fledgling autist.

>>3829873
>”I didn’t want you to get hurt. It seemed like the best way to ensure your safety.”
We were moved by her tears.

>>3829873
>>(Write-in)
>>>”You were no longer a threat so I didn’t want you to get hurt. It seemed like the best way to ensure your safety.”

>>3829873
>>”I didn’t want you to get hurt. It seemed like the best way to ensure your safety.”
You can't keep trying to kill us if you're dead Ilona.

>>3829873
>>”I didn’t want you to get hurt. It seemed like the best way to ensure your safety.”

>>3829873
>>>”I didn’t want you to get hurt. It seemed like the best way to ensure your safety.”
This one feels the most true. Edgar took her to the Church because that's what happens to defeated Masters, full stop. As much as I wish it were option 3.

>>3829901
It should still confuse her even more
>Try to kill guy 3 times
>"I don't want you to get hurt"

>>3829901
That's why I added the "You were no longer a threat" bit to mine. It's just a little colder but still honest and kind.

>>3829913
>wanting to be colder to her
But why?
Our life is sort of in her hands right now.

>>3829917
She needs to be harsher if she wants the D.

>>3829919
She's harsh enough.

>>3829873
>>”I didn’t want you to get hurt. It seemed like the best way to ensure your safety.”

>>3829926
It's a faux harshness. If she wants to be top bitchthe only kind of girl Edgar likes she needs to start performing under pressure.

>>3829940
But Edgar isn't the one who's harsh.
He has a heart of gold.
...at least towards women.

He agreed to fight in the war solely for Saber's sake.
He agreed to escort Charlotte for effectively nothing
Then he both spared Ilonasviel and took her to safety.

>>3829873
>>”I didn’t want you to get hurt. It seemed like the best way to ensure your safety.”

>>3829955
She was an enemy, unlike the other two. While that is hot it isn't endearing.

>>3829961
But Edgar loves it when attractive girls almost kill him.

>>3829989
He loves girls that are fun or hyper competent while trying to kill him. The Einzbern was just kind of there being awful.

>>3830014
Well we'll just have to see how her relationship with Edgar develops from here.

“I didn’t want you to get hurt,” you reply, like the answer is plain as day. “It seemed like the best way to ensure your safety.”

“That is exactly what I don’t understand!” Ilonasviel says angrily. “How can you possibly harbor good will towards someone who tried to kill you three times?”

“It’s not as though you were in a position to fight back. Is it weird to want to preserve life when I can?” you ask, scratching your head.

“Even when that life tried to end your own, you would save it simply because it is a life?” The silver-haired girl fixes you with a vexed look. ”You are an enigma.” You don’t think it’s a very complicated stance, yet Ilonasviel struggles to comprehend it. She hops off the bed and begins to pace back and forth. While she says nothing further to you, she does not leave. Perhaps she’s just mulling something over.

You lay back, staring lazily into the luxurious canopy. While your left side is healed, the soreness detracts from your will to move it, as does the comfort provided by the warm bed. A slight chill compels you to slide your arm back under the covers in spite of the stiffness. It finally registers with you that your clothing is minimal, outfit comprised only of underwear. The rest was likely destroyed and discarded during the treatment you received while unconscious. Noticeably absent, much to your displeasure, is your anti-magic amulet. You hope it hasn’t been done away with.

While taking mental inventory, you decide to test your connection to Saber. You don’t remember having any dreams while you were inert, indicating a severe deficiency, but it can’t hurt to attempt contact.

‘Saber, can you hear me?’ you reach out with your mind. You wait several seconds, but receive no reply. Inability to communicate mentally suggests that you shouldn’t try using a Command Spell to summon the swordswoman. If she’s physically as far away as she feels, there’s no chance one or even two Command Spells can close the distance, and they’re far too valuable to waste.

>>3830805
>Is it weird to want to preserve life when I can?
>He wasn't moved by her beautiful crying face.
Edgar doesn't have enough desire. This is very Shirou.

“Very well,” Ilonasviel declares, drawing your focus back to the room. She climbs onto the bed and stands on the mattress, hands on her hips, positioned just above your feet so that she can look down on you. Her head almost touches the covering above. You might even have found her a little intimidating if her method for attaining this height weren’t so silly. “If my safety concerns you so much, then you will gladly protect it. Serve me!”

“Come again?” You hesitate to say what you really think out loud, but what the hell kind of conclusion is that? She doesn’t understand your resistance to killing her, but takes that reluctance as permission to be your boss? Her proposition is distorted in its reasoning and astonishingly naive. It begins to occur to you that perhaps this homunculus knows very little about people and their relations with one another.

“I said serve me! Obey my commands! Follow my orders and help me win!” So she hasn’t dropped out of the Holy Grail War, is that it? You don’t have a clue who her Servant might be, if she even has one at the moment. That aside, Ilonasviel is asking a lot of you right now. But given that she’s from the Einzbern family, operating under her could have a wide range of benefits, both material and magical.

>>”Okay, I can do that for now. I won’t break any promises I make to others, but outside of that I’ll listen to you.”
>>”Not happening. I spared you, sure, but that doesn’t mean I trust you.”
>>”That’s a pretty overbearing way to request an alliance, you know? Just ask normally.”
>>(Write-in)

>>3830813
>>”Okay, I can do that for now. I won’t break any promises I make to others, but outside of that I’ll listen to you.”
Yesssssssssss

>>3830813
>”Okay, I can do that for now. I won’t break any promises I make to others, but outside of that I’ll listen to you.”
I said yes to this in the VN, damned if I'm passing on it here. Hopefully it isn't just a dead end again.

>>3830813
>>”Okay, I can do that for now. I won’t break any promises I make to others, but outside of that I’ll listen to you.”
The joke there is that we already promised Saber that we will help her win

>>3830813
>>”Okay, I can do that for now. I won’t break any promises I make to others, but outside of that I’ll listen to you.”
She seems reasonable enough for now...

>>3830813
>>>”That’s a pretty overbearing way to request an alliance, you know? Just ask normally.”
https://youtube.com/watch?v=fHFtbSZ3KRE
Why is she so perfect, bros?

>>3830813
>>”That’s a pretty overbearing way to request an alliance, you know? Just ask normally.”

>>3830813
>”Okay, I can do that for now. I won’t break any promises I make to others, but outside of that I’ll listen to you.”

All Lucroy needed to do was be a girl for an alliance.
Edgar is kind of weak to attractive girls, huh?

>>3830934
All Lucroy needed to do was not be a complete dickhead about it. Unfortunately for him, he couldn't manage that.

>>3830813
>>”Okay, I can do that for now. I won’t break any promises I make to others, but outside of that I’ll listen to you.”
Please don't turn us into clothes like Illya.

>>3830962
Bit difficult to romance, clothes.
Now a geas would be something to worry about.

>>3830969
That's why we shouldn't just acquiesce, we need to make it seem like we're on more equitable terms -- alliance instead of serving her.

>>3830974
That is true...
>>3830813
Switching from >>3830846 to
>>”That’s a pretty overbearing way to request an alliance, you know? Just ask normally.”

>>3830974
Why would a Geas matter?
Edgar never breaks his word anyway.

>>3831016
A geas would let her put us in a very inconvenient situation.
Say Edgar has to keep a promise he's made already, but it violates the geas's terms: it's the end of the War, only Saver and Rider are left standing, and now Edgar is forced by the geas to break his promise to Saber.

>>3831029
We aren't going to get geassed.
Einzbern aren't that kind of sneaky.
Maybe turned into a doll though.

>>3831016
Have you read The Death of Cú Chulainn? He has conflicting geasa placed upon him, and his dying follows from being placed in a position where he must break one. Something similarly bad would happen to Edgar if he were given a geis.

>>3831040
Einzbern are alchemists and shouldn't have the capability to geass though.

>>3831029
Hell we could pull a Kiritsugu if she says we have to "listen" to her, doesn't mean we actually have to do what she says.

>>3831029
Edgar would just attack Saver himself instead of ordering Saber to do it

>>3831061
Yeah, but Illya also had mystic eyes, so I don't think that necessarily disqualifies them from having a geis or equivalent binding spell.
>>3831064
That's not Edgar's style, is the problem. He's not a rules-lawyer so much as one who abides by both the letter and the spirit of the law.

>>3831074
Mystic Eyes are because of them being alchemists though.
They are able to give any homonculi they want the damn things.

If she has mystic eyes that can control people to that extent, we were fucked from the start.

>>3830813
>”That’s a pretty overbearing way to request an alliance, you know? Just ask normally

>>3831084
It's not necessarily mystic eyes that would control us. Remember the dead end where Shirou acceded to Illya? She had him under some kind of magic whereby she knew what he was thinking and could control him. I think a similar result would occur here.

>>3831095
Sounds good to me.

>>3830813
>>”That’s a pretty overbearing way to request an alliance, you know? Just ask normally.”

God, this could go terribly.

>>3831128
Yes Anon, this could go terribly well.

Overbearing
>>3831106
>>3831086
>>3830981
>>3830858
>>3830864
Ok
>>3830819
>>3830821
>>3830839
>>3830891
>>3830962

Hmm

>>3831167
Oh damn, I just realized that I linked the wrong video. >>3830858 should be https://youtube.com/watch?v=2VJvDe8BbaM

My mind is telling me the better option is to offer an alliance instead.
But my Heart wants to say yes.
This is a dilemma.

>>3831184
Follow your mind. The heart is a stupid fuck, this has been true since the beginning of time

>>3831192
>Anon doesn't follow the teachings of KUBO

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>>3831192
Spoken like a true machine.
>>3831199
You're right.
I can't possibly stray from the choice my heart longs for.

I have no regrets
This is the only path
>>3830813
>>”Okay, I can do that for now. I won’t break any promises I make to others, but outside of that I’ll listen to you.”

DEAD END CITY HERE WE GOOOOOOO

>>3830813
>”Okay, I can do that for now. I won’t break any promises I make to others, but outside of that I’ll listen to you.”

>>3831209
>not playfully teasing your future wife
>thinking "YES MISS PLEASE STEP ON ME *schlop schlop*" is what she wants to hear
Disappointing. Your heart and mind should be in concordance, anon, and yet they are not.

>>3831209
>Spoken like a true machine.
You have made a fatal error: your flawed organic brain has elected to agree with Ilonasviel von Einzbern because of its incorrect prediction that appeasing her will lead to sex.
This will lead to long-term ramifications such as the formation of mutually-exclusive obligations, formation of stress in Maternal Unit and alienation from Servant Saber.
Puny human.
Beep boop.

>>3831236
You know I kinda think that's exactly what she wants to hear though.

>>3830821
>>3831209
>Dead End
You also seem to be forgetting Kirei's admonition that "not all bad choices will kill you," EVEN THOUGH we made a poor choice not even five updates ago, and because of it we're now separated from Saber.
>>3831243
Why? Her interest doesn't seem to stem from the fact that Edgar is absolutely pussywhipped, but from the fact that he has a really strong personal code. Unconditional submission to her is not in keeping with Edgar at all.

>>3831253
It's not a complete unconditional though.
It's a sincere "I'll do what you want to an extent"
Due to the promise clause
He's not agreeing to give up his soul.

But I don't know.
Maybe switching might be a good idea.

>>3831270
>It's not a complete unconditional though.
>It's a sincere "I'll do what you want to an extent"
>Due to the promise clause
Seems sketchy to me. Edgar Tristan Rood is a man of iron: decisive, uncompromising, autistic.

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>>3831270
>"I'll do what you want to an extent"
But that's literally not what it says. It says
>>”Okay, I can do that for now. I won’t break any promises I make to others, but outside of that I’ll listen to you.”
>"outside of that I'll listen to you."
It is explicitly giving her control over us EXCEPT for promises that we've made.
>He's not agreeing to give up his soul.
He is, in fact, surrendering himself 99%. Don't be a chimp, anon. Change your vote.
>>3830839
The is completely incorrect. We never promised Saber that we would help her win. We didn't even give Mom words of comfort, remember? (See Thread 1, Post #3684605)
>“Please win. I’m begging you.”
>Before you can speak up, she turns and starts running to the front of the church. You stand and follow, wanting to reassure or comfort her, but you freeze just before the chancel, unsure what you would say. You can’t even make the promise that you’ll emerge victorious. After all, you might not be able to keep it.
We would be TOTALLY at Ilona's mercy, BECAUSE we are so autistically hung up on keeping promises and making sure they're achievable.

>>3831209
Ah fuck.
Fine
>>3830813
Switching to
>”That’s a pretty overbearing way to request an alliance, you know? Just ask normally.”
If she really wants us to be her servant then we'll have to get to know each other better before we agree to something like that anyway.

Hmm
I wonder what would happen if Rushorou, Edgar, Shiki and (2004) Shirou met in the Ahnenerbe.

Would the collective autism reach critical mass?

>>3830813
>>>”That’s a pretty overbearing way to request an alliance, you know? Just ask normally.”

>>3831253
She also didn't really do anything wrong that we have seen so far
>>3831307
>They all agree that murder-happy girls are the best

>>3831313
>"Guys, women shouldn't fight."
>entire room goes dead silent

>>3831313
Yes, but this is about not giving her the ability to do something malicious in the future. It's like Net Neutrality(TM): the ISPs don't necessarily want to throttle our Internet, and in fact say that they won't, but the option for them to do so is there. This is rather like that.

>>3831330
I'm tempted to switch back just for that terrible analogy.

For now though, let's just get to know her better before swearing ourselves into servitude.

I'm sorry we can't say yes just yet, best girl.

>>3831329
It would split into the Rushorou-Shirou camp (preferring delicate girls in Rushorou's case, assuming all girls are delicate in Shirou's) and the Edgar-Shiki camp.
Debate would be fierce.
Just wait 'til Shirou opens up about hits feelings on alarm clocks.

>>3831451
Imagine how passionate debates about incest would be.

>>3831459
>Edgar stands alone against three degenerates.

>>3831468
>"""It doesn't count if they aren't related to you by blood."""

>>3830813
>>”That’s a pretty overbearing way to request an alliance, you know? Just ask normally.”

>>3831459
Oh no.
>Badump! Date Super Plan - Reprise
>Alberich and Edgar now join in on the "Date all the heroines" plan
Alberich is totally fucked.
Edgar is slightly less fucked until he gets more women interested in him.

So we're in agreement as to who best girl is now, right?

>>3832016
Master of Berserker.

>>3832033
Inconclusive.

All evidence points towards Ilonasviel, currently.
Saber as a very close second.

>>3832016
Numbah one is Seibah
Runner up is Charlotte
Third is master of Berzerker

Powergap

Mom
Gloria

Powergap

Einzberns

>>3832089
How can it be possible for one anon to have taste so shit?

>>3832092
Einzberns a shit
SHIT

>>3832016
Kotomine > Everyone else

That's just how it is, no need for further arguments.

>>3832094
Sorry anon, but you a shit

Ilonasviel von Einzbern > Saber (Tomoe Gozen) >>> the rest.

>>3832098
Reminder that the rankings in all timelines are Kotomine>Einzbern>Everyone else

>>3832103
>>3832105
Smelly dumb Einzbern scum.

>>3832108
Saber has nothing on Ilonasviel.
Sorry Onifag.

>>3832111
Saber exceeds her in every parameter. It is your lust for Illyasviel that blinds you to the worthless homunculus you champion.

>>3832127
>exceeds her in every parameter
Dumb Onifag.
Ilona is best girl and nothing you can do can change that.

>>3832134
So dead set on being wrong. The absolute state of homuncutards.

>>3832195
Why can't we just get along?

>>3832205
Your waifu is awful and you should feel awful.
I genuinely feel like she is the second weakest potential waifu so far.

Look at all this glorious rage.
Integer, it seems I must concede. By the infallible metric of passionate arguments over waifufaggotry, you have written the superior Fate quest.

>>3832211
I genuinely feel like you should jump off a cliff.
Ilonasviel is best girl.
You have no hope of victory.

>>3832214
He truly has captured the essence of Fate.

>>3832221
If you feel that then I never will because everything you think is so very wrong. The Einzbern will never amount anything.

>>3832241
>he says, his waifu only being summoned because of the Einzbern
Stupid Onifag.

>>3832250
We would have met another way. It is fate.
And I refer to Illonaholesviel as the Einzbern because she isn't a real person. She is a product and inferior to real people.

>>3832256
>Half demon
>a literal inferior copy of the original on the throne
>real person
Dumb Onifag. Saber deserves nothing but an exorcism.

>>3832261
Fool! She is beautiful, righteous and strong!
Far better than that literal inferior copy of an inferior copy you lust for.

>>3832268
>beautiful
So is every other girl Edgar is interested in.
>righteous
No, she's obedient. A righteous person wouldn't consider striking down a young unarmed girl.
>strong
Nice parameters, Saber. You loser.

There's been a lot of talk about Edgar meeting Rushorou, but I'm more interested in the potential interaction between Saber and Kourakuhime. What would a meeting of the oni be like?

>>3832280
>>beautiful
Truly! With grace and elegance!
>righteous
Truly! For said girl is a blackhearted villain who will use our mercy against us!
>strong
Truly! She defeated an ancient warrior of legend and hasn't even shown her full strength!

>>3832291
It would be interesting, to say the least.

>>3832297
Why don't we just try to reach a compromise?
How about we just agree that both are great?

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>>3832305
I refuse.

>>3832330
It's your funeral, used goods lover.

>>3832341
Just keep dreaming about your oversized pocket pussy, loser.

>>3832214
I humbly accept your surrender.
However, you need not feel inadequate or inferior. You are simply unlucky; your failure is not due to a lack of merit, but my nature. You are merely a man trying to write a good Fate quest. I am something else entirely. Shitslinging anons are unconsciously drawn to me, for I collect all butthurt onto myself; I am All the World's Salt, Angra Waifu.

“That’s a pretty overbearing way to request an alliance, you know?” you say half-jokingly. “Just ask normally.”

“What?” Ilonasviel’s brow furrows. “What do you mean, ‘normally’? It’s already normal. When two people work together, one of them has to be in charge.”

“I don’t know where you’re getting that idea from,” you respond, “but there are plenty of people who cooperate as equals.” She hesitates, as though she hadn’t considered the idea before.

“...Well, I don’t want to do that,” the girl replies after a moment. “Do you understand the position you’re in right now? I could have you killed with a snap of my fingers!”

“Even so, I won’t subordinate myself to you.” Your defiance confounds the girl even further than before, and it shows on her face.

“Edgar Rood, you are utterly inscrutable,” the Einzbern complains. She carefully steps down from the bed and walks over to the door. Once it’s open, she pauses in the frame. “Tonight only, we’ll work together, as ‘equals’.”

“And after that?”

“We’ll see.” With that, her silver hair disappears from view. The entrance remains open behind her. “Angela! Ursula! The clothes! And give him a briefing on tonight! He will be joining us.”

In a few short seconds, Ursula returns, followed by a similar-looking but unarmed maid carrying a pile of folded clothing. The door is closed, and the clothes are deposited onto your bed.

“Dress yourself,” the second maid - Angela, you presume - instructs you with an impatient, condescending tone. Unlike her partner, it appears she can speak regularly. “You have freeloaded here long enough, and it is time you work to repay your debt.” As much as you would like to reject that, it’s true that your life was saved and you’ve been sleeping here for an unknown amount of time since.

You sit up in bed, still sore, and grab the pile of clothes. The two maids don’t seem to be going anywhere, and dressing with an audience embarrasses you, so you remain in bed and let the sheets cover your legs while you put a shirt over your torso. Impressively, the clothes are almost exactly what you wore the night you were injured. Did they buy you a new outfit? Topping the mound of garments is your trusty amulet.

“Lady Ilonasviel has planned a most excellent strike on Berserker,” Angela continues. “Tonight, he and his Master will be patrolling the western district, in accordance with their pattern. Rider will engage the Servant. If you are to aid Lady Ilonasviel, then you will attack the Master.”

Rider? Didn’t Rider disappear long before Shielder died? How does Ilonasviel have her? With your top half covered, you get out of bed to put on the pants.

“Familiars can help you locate Berserker’s Master, but do not count on them for combat support. Lady Ilonasviel will be occupied with command of the Servant battle.”

You’re fully clothed now. The only difference between this outfit and your usual is that the shirt is tighter. You begin stretching to ease your aches.

“Do you have any questions about the plan?” Angela looks at you with disinterested, barely tolerant eyes. If Ilonasviel’s offer of cooperation was as spontaneous as it seemed, then Angela did a very good job of presenting on the fly. You do have a question, though.

>>”What day is it?”
>>”How did Ilonasviel come to possess Rider?”
>>”If I can’t get support from the familiars, then can I bring Ursula?”
>>”Maybe we should attack Archer in the park instead?”
>>”Why is this shirt so tight?”
>>(Write-in)

>>3833628
>”If I can’t get support from the familiars, then can I bring Ursula?”
Let no combat resource go unused.

>>3833628
>>”How did Ilonasviel come to possess Rider?”

>>3833628
>>”Why is this shirt so tight?”
Angela please.

>>3833628
>”Why is this shirt so tight?”

>>3833628
>>>(Write-in)
"I'd like to contact my family."
We can touch base with mom and let her know we're fine, see if she was contacted by Saber or Charlotte.

>>3833675
We can do that later.

>>3833714
Can we though? Who knows what nonsense we'll get swept up into. If you need time for something you need to make time for it.

>>3833733
It's not worth the risk.

>>3833739
What risk?

>>3833746
A perceived betrayal.
Also "can I call the overseer" just looks bad on us.
I miss Saber.

>>3833752
She already knows that the overseer is our mom though? And that Edgar is a man of his word and a caring individual.

>>3833759
Calling for mommy can wait.
Edgar is a grown up.

>>3833773
Well
>>3833628
I change my vote>>3833675
back to
>>”If I can’t get support from the familiars, then can I bring Ursula?”
We can't take Berzerker's mater in a straight fight.

Maybe we should share the intel we have on Archer, just in case

>>3833796
Yeah we really should.

>>3833628
>>”If I can’t get support from the familiars, then can I bring Ursula?”
>>"And as a heads up, I've got it on good authority that Archer has found a way to kill most of us in one strike."

>>3833628
>>”If I can’t get support from the familiars, then can I bring Ursula?”
>>"And as a heads up, I've got it on good authority that Archer has found a way to kill most of us in one strike."
>"How exactly did I end up here when it was Archer and their Master who defeated me?"

Are we sure Ilona isn't collaborating with Archer's Master? I still don't understand how we were left half dead and at Archer's mercy, and yet we woke up here in the Einzbern's hideout.

>>3834365
They left us unconcious there.

>>3833634
>>3833782
>>3834068
>>3834365
Did you guys miss the part where Edgar says he won't subordinate himself to Ilona and she responds, "we'll work together, as 'equals'."? By asking to bring Ursula -- who is for all intents and purposes property of Ilonasviel -- we admit that we're not her equal. Borrowing Ursula is the same as saying, "you're stronger than me, we are not equals, and I give control to you." After the discussion yesterday, I still believe that we should avoid giving control to Ilona in any form at the start of our relationship.
>>3833628
>>>”Why is this shirt so tight?”
This is a good meme, and I support it. Certainly more than immediately shooting ourselves in the foot.

>>3834892
You'd rather shoot yourself in the foot in terms of actual combat potential by leaving a fighter at home than compromise your neurotic concept of relationship dynamics?
Not wise.

>>3834893
It's an Einzbern though.
So he's probably right.

>>3834892
>>3834900
Also, what's this BS about pretending she's not in a stronger position?
We don't have access to a Servant, we've been taking her favors in the form of having our life saved, and we're setting ourselves up to follow her plan; effectively taking orders from her maid, if you hadn't noticed.
After all that, you think Edgar can actually keep up a farce of being an equal partner?

>>3834892
>Well fuck I need to get somewhere fast but I can't ask my buddy that has a car for a ride because that would make me his inferior
>Better to run on the road instead

>>3834893
We already stabbed Berserker's Master once, we can definitely use our ice powers + the fact that there's a new Servant (Rider) in the mix to our advantage.
>>3834906
>Also, what's this BS about pretending she's not in a stronger position?
It's not about pretending that she's not in a stronger position, it's about demonstrating that we're capable of standing on our own -- that we don't need her to be in control of everything.

>>3834913
But you're doing that while actually letting her control everything (following her plan of attack). It's a transparent pretense.

>>3834912
That's a retarded analogy and you know it. We're not friends with Ilonasviel, we are negotiating an alliance in which she explicitly says she wants to be in charge. You find a closer analogy to what this choice is in F/SN Bad Ending "Geas" (Tiger Dojo #31). Taking alms from Ilona is completely different from getting a favor from a friend.
>>3834920
There's a difference between admitting that her course of action is the correct one to take and admitting one's own weakness to such an extent as to need the other's explicit and continued support.
>It's a transparent pretense.
It's actually a material difference.

>>3833628
>”If I can’t get support from the familiars, then can I bring Ursula?”
>"And as a heads up, I've got it on good authority that Archer has found a way to kill most of us in one strike."

>>3834892
>>3834906
You are looking at this in a far more mechanical, business like way than you should. A normal person can work together with someone and subordinate themselves to them for a short period to achieve a goal with swearing a binding oath that obligates them in the future.

>>3834913
We stabbed her because it was 2v1, she was on enemy turf that was being used against her and she still fucked us up pretty badly. We won't have time to chant when she's coming at us full speed.

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The Einzbern familiars are out but since we're going back in the city that means Saber's with us, yeah?

>>3835600
I made my vote under the assumption that something had happened to her. Would the Einzberns be able to make a bounded field that can keep a Servant out?

You’ve clashed with Berserker’s Master once before. You’ll be ready for her exceptional physical capabilities this time, but you would be a fool not to gain every possible advantage in anticipation of your clash. To that end, there’s another capable combatant right here in the room with you - at least, there appears to be, assuming that weapon of hers isn’t for show.

”If I can’t get support from the familiars, then can I bring Ursula?” you ask.

“Preposterous!” Angela scoffs. “Ursula serves as Milady’s personal bodyguard-”

“Mm. I go.” Ursula nods. “If Ilona says yes.” Angela turns to her companion, surprised.

“Ursula,” she begins, “you can’t possibly mean to abandon your post?”

“I fight. Kill those who want to hurt Ilona. This, no different.” There’s a clear distinction in your mind, and likely Angela’s, between attack and defense, but it appears battle is all the same to Ursula. At least, that’s what you think until she offers a more compelling argument. “Besides, if Ilona there, and I here, can’t protect Ilona.”

Angela has no rebuttal to that. There’s nothing left but for Ilonasviel render judgement.

~~~

Ultimately, Ilonasviel agreed to letting Ursula accompany you. Angela drove the three of you into town. It was a bit cramped with Ursula’s giant polearm taking up so much space in the vehicle’s interior, but since this was your idea, you didn’t complain. The maid dropped your party off in a secluded alley at the edge of downtown and, after you retrieved your Black Keys from the trunk, went to the hotel to await your return.

You and Ursula follow the architect of tonight’s plan through the streets of the western district to her ambush location. Your coalition ally creates several birds out of wire and releases each one as she finishes it, dispersing familiars in multiple directions to monitor the battlefield. After a good deal of walking, Ilonasviel leads you into an alleyway and to the back door of a small corner store. Her intended hiding place for tonight, most likely. You’re about to offer to destroy the lock for her when the silver-haired girl produces a key. How she acquired one, you’ve no idea.

“You two should go one block further west,” Ilonasviel says, constructing another eye in the sky. “The familiars are centered around there. Once they find the Master of Berserker, I’ll have this one lead you to her.” The Einzbern Master holds up the faux avian so it can hop onto Ursula’s shoulder. Ursula looks at the bird for a moment, smiling softly.

With your most fragile member safely tucked away, you and Ursula head to the prescribed position. There, you find a deep alley containing a particularly convenient nook. Impressively, it can hide Ursula and the full height of her weapon from the street. You wonder for a moment if Ilonasviel found this place on her own or if Shielder happened to scout it out while he was alive. Probably the latter, you suppose, taking cover behind a dumpster.

For some time, you and Ursula wait in silence for the mesh creature to take flight. Before that happens, though, you hear a familiar roar.

“grrroooOOOOOOOoooh!”

Berserker’s groan echoes into the night. Cautiously, you peek around the dumpster and spot the mad warrior in the street, still a good distance away due to the length of the lane. He stomps irregularly on the asphalt, looking up into the night sky like a lunatic. You doubt he'll notice you if you depart. His head slowly turns, and his body with it. For a nutcase, his gaze is surprisingly steady… is he tracking something?

A tap on your shoulder causes your head to snap to Ursula. She’s crouching beside you, keeping body and weapon low. The familiar has left her shoulder and now glides silently in the opposite direction from Berserker.

>>Follow the familiar and engage Berserker’s Master. You have a job to do, and it’s time to do it.
>>Stay put for a bit longer and observe Berserker. Maybe you can learn something.
>>(Write-in)

>>3836338
Can we call out to Saber?

>>3836339
Your connection to Saber hasn't improved. You can try to call out, but you have no reason to believe she's nearby.

>>3836338
>Follow the familiar and engage Berserker’s Master. You have a job to do, and it’s time to do it.
Eyes on the prize...

>>3836355
Hmm.
>>3836338
>>Follow the familiar and engage Berserker's Master. You have a job to do, and it’s time to do it.
My first instinct is to stay put, and that means Berserker was probably tracking the familiar. We should get out of the way before he comes here.

>>3836338
>>Follow the familiar and engage Berserker’s Master. You have a job to do, and it’s time to do it.
Like Anon said, it seems like he's trying to track the familiars, so we need to get away from him quickly.

Hopefully Edgar's right about him being able to slip by him.

>>3836338
>>Follow the familiar and engage Berserker’s Master. You have a job to do, and it’s time to do it.
I wish seibah was here.

So just a thought. Is engaging this fight breaking our promise with Saber? Or will it be at least in her eyes? I know we have barely a choice to do so since we would have been killed for saying no but you know, death before dishonor and all that.

>>3836644
Not unless it impedes her chances of winning.
She would've had a tough time with Berserker, who mostly relies on being fucking strong, so it'd actually be a good thing to do for her.

>>3836647
Her wish is to fight by our side not to win, though. To her it'll seem like first, she wasn't able to keep us safe and let us get captured and then we go off with someone else to fight the enemy.
I get the feeling this whole string of events is gonna make her feel insecure again.

>>3836655
We have a lot of work to do...

>>3836338
>>>Follow the familiar and engage Berserker’s Master. You have a job to do, and it’s time to do it.
Well not gonna waste a command seal to call her when there is something in the way.
>>3836659
We must buy her a pretty dress. Or a motorcycle, she wants to use that Ride skill after all.

>>3836644
Don't worry, the being captured by an Einzbern part is a crucial aspect of any Saber route

>>3836655
>Her wish is to fight by our side not to win, though.

>Friendship with Saber ended
>Now Ursala is my best friend

>>3836723
I mean
Einzbern homunculi maids are canonically good enough to win grail wars on their own
Source: Fate/Unlimited Codes

>>3836840
Luvia can 1v1 Gilgamesh and win without a scratch.
Source: Fate/Unlimited Codes

>>3836841
Gilgamesh is a jobber
Source: The entirety of Fate

>>3836845
Well shit you got me there.

>>3836338
>Follow the familiar and engage Berserker’s Master. You have a job to do, and it’s time to do it.

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>>3836841
I want Luvia to 1v1 my dick.

>>3837018
>Luvia will never get to be an actual main character in anything
It hurts.

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>>3837031
Luvia and Shirou vampire slayers when? Do it, Nasu, you fuck.

>>3837046
Imagine if Nasu didn't go full retard and actually managed to keep all the stories in the same timeline/timelines.

>>3837054
I mean, that'd require him to actually be the one writing all the stories, so there'd probably be less all around.
Besides, lore in F/SN contradicts lore in Tsukihime, so it was never possible from the beginning.

>>3837054
I'm not asking for consistent timelines. I'm just asking for something more interesting than "What if all timelines were rendered null and void and we wrote whatever our whims dictated."

>>3837056 #
>less all around
What an absolute shame.
>always contradictory
But was it though?
What were the contradictions, remind me.
It's been a while since I read either.
>>3837059
You don't like Quantum Time Locks rendering everything pointless, anon?

>>3837073
It's kind of esoteric and I don't remember it that well either, to be honest. I just remember that something about the underlying world is different, having to do with elemental spirits in Tsukihime, and the result is that some things like Arcueid's marble phantasm would be impossible in Fate, while heroic spirits are impossible in Tsukihime.
If there's anyone who properly remembers what the deal is, please feel free to explain.

>>3837083
Honestly that sounds like something Nasu made up afterwards or slapped into a materials book or something.

>>3837093
IIRC it was a conflict in the exposition given in the games themselves. Again though, not totally sure.
More than that, though, they just feel incompatible. The world as presented in Tsukihime just doesn't feel the same as the one presented in Fate. I'm not sure how to explain it, but even if there are a lot of things present in both, the idea of them sharing a universe puts me off.

>>3837098
It's more to do with the immense edge that Tsukihime had that Fate turned down a little bit that makes the two feel different. I don't really see the two stories as incompatible myself.

It's only a matter of time till they get to share a universe through FGO.

>>3837073
From what I remember the split off between Tsukihime and Fate goes back well before the time of the gods. They contradict in that in Fate humanity has the ability to oppose the Beasts to the point that in most timelines they are never an issue (barring a couple exceptions, then as of FGO there were no exceptions).

Whereas in Tsukihime Arcuid and those on her level meant humanity never reached the point where Beasts were a thing. Humanity is inherently weaker in that timeline and at the whims of a few powerful individuals.

Fate is humanity at the helm of its destiny (or at least allowed to give it a shot).

Tsukihime is humanity a subservient species with a handful of outliers that are enough to amuse those greater than us.

>>3837108
That's obviously a recent retcon though.

>>3837112
Early? Don't think so. The was late 2000s or early 2010s.

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>>3837121
Meant to say recent at the beginning. Oh well.

>>3837121
That's still 5+ years after the story was released.
As far as I'm concerned, the entire series had it's soul torn out by Extra.
The rest is just constant retcons by Nasu to allow whatever the current shitty story is.
Like giving the will of humanity the ability to delete any unfavourable timeline.

>>3837128
Extra feels like it was supposed to be non canon but for some reason had enough fans at the time, or sales, that they tried to make it a mainstay. Then it just overwrite the meta and Nasu was like "Well they seem to like every scrap of esoteric bullshit I cram in here."

If the familiar is in flight, then it’s time to move. Spending too much time around Berserker would be hazardous to your health, anyway. The two of you carefully creep away in tow of the bird, your steps quick but light. Ursula’s deft footwork and handling of her unwieldy cargo are something to be admired. Soon enough, your guide turns a corner, and the pair of you take off like a shot once out of sight. Berserker remains distracted and make no attempt to stop you.

Hurrying to your destination, you can’t help but notice that Berserker’s roars grow in volume despite their fading distance, resulting in a relatively constant listening experience for those in flight. Then comes the clashing. Thunderous waves of sound pursue you, but several seconds pass between each individual noise, and their source comes no closer to you. The crazed Servant continues to howl. You expected him to wreak havoc on the urban area come time for battle, but he doesn’t seem to be moving at all.

A relatively short journey that leads you to a small strip mall containing only two restaurants and a grocery on one end. Ilonasviel’s familiar hovers outside the windows, peering into the market. You and your partner stop in the parking lot, none too keen to get ambushed by someone you can’t see. Red handles fill your hands.

After a few seconds that feel like hours, the window in front of the wire avian explodes. Berserker’s Master comes hurtling from within, grabbing and crushing your cable companion with one hand. In the same bound, she tosses the deformed, lifeless familiar to the side and propels herself towards you. To dodge, you drop your weight and roll sideways, removing yourself from the path of her fist. As you do, you materialize the blades in one hand and slash at your passing opponent with the extended range. She kicks the ground to spin just out of your reach. Momentum causes her to overshoot your position, and when she puts a foot down to correct her trajectory, she jumps away from you instead. Her move is just in time to avoid the crashing impact of Ursula’s black halberd.

The ice-like eyes of Berserker’s Master remain primarily focused on you, though they shift between you and Ursula. You’ve gained a little bit of information from what just happened; Berserker’s Master is treating you as the priority target.

>>Attack up close! Unsheath Black Keys form within her guard to impale her!
>>Strike from afar with Black Keys! Let Ursula handle close quarters!
>>Use magecraft to hamper her! Give Ursula the opportunity to cleave your foe in two!
>>(Write-in)

>>3838041
>>Attack up close! Unsheath Black Keys form within her guard to impale her!

>>3838041
>>Use magecraft to hamper her! Give Ursula the opportunity to cleave your foe in two!
If she's prioritizing us, we should put Ursula between us and her.

>>3838041
>Use magecraft to hamper her! Give Ursula the opportunity to cleave your foe in two!

>>3838041
Didn't she tank that lightning blast Lucroy used on her? She might have some sort of magical resistance like our amulet

>>3838041
>>Strike from afar with Black Keys! Let Ursula handle close quarters!
She's shown she can dodge us at close range, lock her down from a distance and let Ursala attack her without having to worry about her cutting us in half.

>>3838041
>>>Strike from afar with Black Keys! Let Ursula handle close quarters!
If we're the target, we need to stay back and support Ursula from the rear. Berserker's Master will have to divide her attention between the two of us.
>>3838320
Yeah, she took several big hits from Lucroy during the fight.

>>3838041
>>Strike from afar with Black Keys! Let Ursula handle close quarters!

>>3838041
>>Use magecraft to hamper her! Give Ursula the opportunity to cleave your foe in two!

>>3838041
>>>Strike from afar with Black Keys! Let Ursula handle close quarters!
Yes! Violence-chan!

>>3832291
Now that I've had the chance to think about it a bit, I suspect they would get along very poorly. Their encounter could turn violent quite easily if nobody is around to mediate.

>>3838041
>Strike from afar with Black Keys! Let Ursula handle close quarters!

>>3838320
Our magic may not be able to affect her directly but could we use ice magic to make barriers and whatnot like when we helped Charlotte evade Archer? We won't have enough time to use that spell we used on Shielder because she is on our asses but those earlier spells were pretty quick to throw up.

Your other Black Keys reveal their blades. While Ursula keeps the Master of Berserker busy, you’ll have the opportunity to attack from range. If you keep her hemmed in, you or Ursula should manage to land a hit before your ammunition is depleted. You ready a throw, but Berserker’s Master recognizes your intent, positioning Ursula between you.

The enemy having restricted herself to what is effectively a narrow corridor, Ursula’s long weapon easily keeps the unarmed girl at bay. Movement of the white hoodie is accented against the darkness on the other side of your partner, exposing a futile struggle to slip past the polearm. The fight takes place in such a narrow arc that the maid can move her weapon to intercept or repel with little more than a flick.

For you, this has its difficulties. Any attempt you make to get an angle simply causes the melee to rotate. Berserker’s Master is keen to avoid your line of sight. Whatever; you can make this work. Ascertaining her location isn’t hard, and Ursula hasn’t given an inch of ground yet. Sweeping an arm wide in front of you, a Black Key spins off toward the fight, arcing safely around your ally. But your target is fast, evading with a powerful lunge to one side. She probably saw the sword coming over Ursula’s shoulder. Regardless, your objective is complete. With five Keys still in hand, you’ve forced the Master out from cover!

Your foe doesn’t dare stop now that she knows Ursula is an ineffective shield. Instead, she makes another two hops to slip completely around the halberd’s reach and charges you. Another Key makes a beeline for the Master of Berserker. It’s not going to hit, of course, but you don’t intend it to. Your throw ends with your arms crossed in front of you. Two blades remain in each hand. Berserker’s Master dodges to the right. As soon as she makes her move, your right arm swings like a trebuchet, and the projectiles twirl out as a pair - one to strike her if she continues in her present direction, another to nail her if she tries to halt.

Blue eyes fixate on your weapons. Berserker’s Master keeps moving and holds up her arms defensively. A cutting edge bites deep into the bone of her forearm. You’re not entirely used to throwing two spinning swords at once, so you relied on your gut a little bit, but your intuition proved correct.

Your opponent’s face doesn’t change despite the pain. She turns her body around to her other problem just in time to see Ursula slashing vertically once more. The Master cartwheels out of the way, but her newly injured arm buckles and she tumbles to the ground despite avoiding the attack. Ursula tears the halberd out of the pulverized asphalt and towards the wounded foe. The tip catches a bit in the flesh of her torso, audibly ripping flesh as it picks her target up. When the halberd slows, the loser of this fight slides off smoothly and sails down the parking lot.

“Iris, no!” a completely new voice shrieks in horror as Ursula’s victim rolls to a stop, bleeding terribly. Several meters further past the landing zone, another girl about your enemy’s age with long white hair, a matching dress, and emerald green eyes dashes to the fallen combatant. Soft green light emanates from the hands she places on the injuries of the crumpled fighter. Ursula hefts her weapon, preparing to charge and kill both, but freezes as a third figure fades into reality before them.

It’s a woman with hair black as the night itself. A simple, dark red dress held up by a pair of straps covers a brown kirtle underneath. Gold brooches with multiple bead-covered strings tied between them accent her golden eyes.

“What a brave double-teaming strategy!” she says in a mocking tone. “Proper heroes could learn a lot from you about how to fight young ladies.”

The Servant isn’t making any moves towards you, just standing protectively in front of the two white-haired girls. The initiative is yours… if you want it.

>>Retreat with Ursula. This is far too risky if a Servant is involved.
>>Have Ursula attack and provide support!
>>Charge her yourself and rely on Ursula for backup!
>>Throw your Black Keys! At least try to kill the girls!
>>(Write-in)

>>3840009
>>Retreat with Ursula. This is far too risky if a Servant is involved.

>>3840009
>>Cutting words, Caster. But what do you have to say for your Master who sent a 'young lady' to do his fighting for him?

Interesting. I kind of want to pump Caster for information. It seems possible that this Iris girl and Berserker have been dancing to Leon Marshall's tune. Both they and Caster were present during the attack on Lucroy's mansion. Plus, I'm fairly certain Caster was distracting Lancer while the Berserker pair were hunting down Lucroy. That might have been a coordinated plan on their part.

>>3840009
>>Have Ursula attack and provide support!
If we run we run the risk of meeting Berzerker coming to his master's aid or leaving Illonahole stuck fighting him.

Between us and Ursula we stand a good chance of killing one of them. The new master must die.

>>3840009
I'll support >>3840044. See if we can stall.

>>3840009
>>Retreat with Ursula. This is far too risky if a Servant is involved.
Let's not try to fight a Servant. Ursula is great, but Servants are just too far beyond us.

>>3840044
Rereading last thread I'm pretty sure this is Archer and her master, she taunts us like the woman did before we got got. It's possible Marshall has three servants and masters in his alliance.

>>3840111
Wasn't Archer a male though?

>>3840117
Was he? we haven't seen him and the male who left us alive could have been Marshal himself, which may be the cause of Saber's absence.

>>3840121
I think you're right that we don't have a confirmed gender for Archer. I vaguely recalled Charlotte referring to them as a he at some point, but looking back I don't see it. However, I did notice this from back when we went to the Lucroy mansion.

>True to Saber’s report, a tree across the clearing falls, accompanied by a familiar groan echoing throughout the premises. In the distance, a dark figure dexterously cartwheels into view past the right side of the home. Several colorful spells fly out of the treeline in pursuit. Lancer regains his footing, heels digging into the dirt as his momentum carries him along, and slashes at any projectile that strays too close. Each one vanishes after being cut by his spear.

>Berserker now charges out from the woods. Currently defending and without enough time to evade, Lancer can only block the incoming attack head-on. The axe slams into the shaft of the spear, sending the spearman careening back into the darkness of the forest. Unsurprisingly, Berserker follows. You catch a brief glimpse of another figure wearing a dark red color moving in between the trees before your attention is drawn to the house itself by a muffled explosion and a flash of turquoise light from a second-story window. Another noise and an identically-colored flare occur in an adjacent room. There’s another battle occurring inside, it seems.

I think the red thing in the woods spitting out spells was Caster, and that they are the same Servant who stands before us now.

>>3840129
It is possible for an Archer to use magic based projectiles but I can't even imagine who. The projectiles we know for sure were Archer were always described as "shells". Possible explosive spells but no way to know.

This makes me wonder why Archer would have spared us and where did Saber go afterwords.If it is some self imposed exile muh honour shit I swear to god.

>>3840009
>>Retreat with Ursula. This is far too risky if a Servant is involved.
Yeah, we're not Shirou tier broken, there's no way we can take out a Servant by ourselves without massive prep on our end.

>>3840009
Switching from >>3840051 to support >>3840044.

>>3840009
>>Have Ursula attack and provide support!
It's a fucking Caster guys
Most of them aren't even close to being as good as Medea in combat

>>3840203
FAMOUS LAST WORDS.
Most Casters need to work around High Level Magic Resistance.

Medea was one of the weakest Servants in the 5th yet against Humans she is the most dangerous.
>>3840009
>>Retreat with Ursula. This is far too risky if a Servant is involved.
Let us skedaddle.

>>3840203
>Overgrowth Caster takes a page out of Sanzang's book and ORAORAORAORAORAORAORA's Edgar

>>3840303
Seriously the "Casters are weak" meme needs to die.

>>3840210
>Medea was one of the weakest Servants in the 5th yet against Humans she is the most dangerous.
She's an exceptionally skilled Caster who wields AoG magics of course she was a danger. Casters need setup though, time to work their magic. Her performance, even working against his magic resistance, was lacking. If she was capable of killing us without the girls dying she would be doing it.

>>3840364
>Her performance against Lancer at Lucroy's,
That should say.

>>3840009
>Retreat with Ursula. This is far too risky if a Servant is involved.

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>>3840303
>Sanzang
Glad to see someone mentioned my favorite Caster on here. She'll never come home Q_Q
>>3840009
>>>Retreat with Ursula. This is far too risky if a Servant is involved.
Yeah, a Servant is outside of our power range. If only we hadn't jobbed to Archer's Master, then we would've stood a chance using Saber.

>>3840303
>Punchmonk
She's an insult to Casters everywhere, and should be in a different class container. Don't use that thing as an example.

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>>3840559
No.
THIS is an insult to Casters everywhere.

>>3840566
They both are.

>>3840559
She's not an insult she's an exception.
>>3840566
Now THAT's a fucking insult.

>>3840566
Edison was an asshole, so I'm not too broken up that they treat him like a clown. The fact that he somehow precludes other interesting American Historical figures from being officially added as Servants is stupid though.

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>>3840567
>>3840572
The absolute biggest insult to Casters is this motherfucker though.
What were they fucking thinking?

I think we might have accidentally played a bit into Yoshinaka myth here, lads.
I wonder how Saber will feel after we went on our own with help of Einzberns to fight other Masters and Servants and while not by our free will but effectively abandoning her behind after we gave her promise to fight by her side.

>>3840593
She'll understand that we were gang-pressed into it and we couldn't reach her.

>>3840593
We kind of had a choice between this, being her slave and dying.

It's not like Edgar doesn't want to fight by her side.

So it would take two command seals to summon Saber, right?
This sounds like good point to murder Caster and Berserker
While at it I wonder if our talisman would be good enough to cockblock anything Caster can do quickly

>>3840593
There has to be some reason she didn't get us after we got knocked out.

>>3840622
I don't think we've got our talisman do we? Did Illonasviel give it back to us?

>>3840629
Yeah she did.
They got us a new outfit too.

>>3840622
>So it would take two command seals to summon Saber, right?
Maybe? Edgar just knows one wouldn't be enough.

>>3840591
Mama Babbage is perfect exactly as he is.

The introduction of a Servant banishes all thoughts of finishing Berserker’s Master - or Iris, as she appears to be named - from your mind.

“Ursula, we’re leaving,” you say, carefully backing away and refilling your hands with hilts. It might not do much good, but you’re not dumb enough to expose your back to a Servant nor face one unarmed. Ursula follows suit, weapon held at the ready.

“My, how courageous!” the woman mocks your decision to depart.

“Better cowardice than incompetence,” you retort.

“You have the guts to back talk, I'll give you that,” she laughs, shooing you away. “Run along now. I have more important matters to attend to.”

You’re not sure why she’s letting you go, but you’re not going to stick around to ask. As soon as the line of sight is broken, you and Ursula sprint back the way you came, ducking into alley after alley.

~~~
{interlude ??-1}
~~~

A massive man stands atop a roof, breeze pressing his hooded shirt against bulging muscles. It’s only about four stories up, but it’s noticeably taller than most buildings in this area, making it an excellent vantage point. Conveniently, the jutting road of a three-way intersection stretches out before the building for a few miles. This is the cleanest shot anyone could ask for on Berserker.

Unfortunately, Berserker’s Protection from Arrows nullifies that advantage. Archer would have killed Berserker days ago had his target lacked that skill. The warning from the overseer against collateral damage has also proven a nuisance, effectively banning Archer from pursuing targets in this central (and more importantly, popular among combatants) area. With a few days of preparation, however, he has managed to prepare a solution to both problems. He won’t attack Berserker with arrows, and he technically won’t be destroying much of anything. Yet, somehow, luck hasn’t been on his side lately. A complication, impossible to account for, now plagues his plan right as he intends to execute it.

Of all the Servants he’s fought, observed, and schemed against in this Holy Grail War, none have been able to fly.

Two great wings, black as a raven’s, sprout from the back of a beautiful woman. Her long, pale blue hair and armor of blue and gray shine in the moonlight as she swoops down repeatedly to the hulking madman below. In her hands is a strange winged spear, with a one-edged, hooked, harpoon-like tip. Every skewering dive she aims is deflected, but when her attack is repelled she soars back into the sky. Though Berserker may be holding her off for now, he is powerless to counterattack.

Despite the interloper, Archer has no intention of abandoning his plan. He has the opportunity to learn about this new enemy from a distance, and she may even be slain in the chaos to follow. That, perhaps, is the ideal scenario. A huge composite bow appears in the marksman’s hands. He calmly knocks an arrow, takes aim, and fires.

~~~
{interlude out}
~~~

The roars and crashes are getting closer again. Has that guy moved at all since you left him in the first place? You’re not too keen on risking a run-in with another Servant, but you need to meet back up with Ilonasviel one way or the other. You motion to Ursula to stay back and carefully peek around the building into the alley from which you first fled.

Indeed, Berserker remains rooted to the spot. Even more bizarre than that, however, is his reason for why. You can hardly believe your eyes. Every few seconds, Berserker swings his axe to parry what appears to be no more than a streak of moonlight, resulting in a deafening collision. Each time the shooting star returns to the sky, Berserker shouts after it in frustration.

Then, just after another shining impact, Berserker twists to avoid something. You catch a glimpse of one of Archer’s arrows sailing over the mail-clad monstrosity before your view is obscured by a flash of light and a great rush of air. In an instant, your connection with Saber surges back to its full strength!

However, your overwhelming excitement from this development is short-lived, and you only have a split second to take in what follows. Several feet in the air above Berserker are Saber and Rider. Wasting no time on confusion, their weapons are already drawn to neutralize the threat below; for Saber, her sword, and for Rider, a one-handed battle axe. The mad warrior’s skin glows from within, and he lets out a horrendous howl. With blinding speed, his weapon rips through the air. His targets, unable to dodge, are sent rocketing away.

Saber rakes across the building opposite you in the alley, smashes into a dumpster, and skids across the ground for a bit before finally stopping a few feet past your hiding spot. On all fours, the swordswoman whips her head up, and her eyes lock on you. But she doesn’t express any joy, or even say hello. Your Servant is already in a frenzy.

“Orders!” she growls. The moonlight is about to make another pass at Berserker, and after that he might start moving. Until then is your window to make a decision!

>>Keep up the attack on Berserker!
>>Stick to the alleys and go looking for Archer!
>>Return to finish off Iris!
>>Collect Ilonasviel and retreat for the night!
>>(Write-in)

>>3841399
>>Stick to the alleys and go looking for Archer!
He can't touch Berserker so he'll prioritize us.

>>3841399
>>>Stick to the alleys and go looking for Archer!
Wait, wait, wait, is there a -ninth- Servant in the mix now? Who's the blue haired chick?

>>3841399
>Stick to the alleys and go looking for Archer!

>>3841399
>>Stick to the alleys and go looking for Archer!

>>3841399
>>Stick to the alleys and go looking for Archer!
So are we dealing with a Valkyrie or maybe another Greek Servant?

>>3841476
>>3841542
I think it was Saber and Rider merged together?

>>3841770
Idk, I just can't see the Fusion Dance being a thing here.

>>3841807
Somebody summoned Goku and he taught everyone how it's done, it's the only explanation

>Servant stealing
>More than servants than excepted
>Fusion dances
>Autism
>Einzberns
>Cute girls
>Vampires
Sure feels like actual Holy Grail War
The only thing we are missing now is servants that shouldn't exist but I have felling Assassin fits into that role

>>3841943
True, by appearances he seemed to modern to have become a Heroic Spirit. Since the Caster and Berserker pair seem to be in league and Berserker was identified as the aberrant, we probably have Caster to blame for him being summoned. No idea where this Valkyrie seeming lady came from. Maybe the Counter Force summoned them to prevent fuckery with the grail war?

>>3841807
Actually it seems like Archer had both servants bound somehow, though when he got Rider and where this new one came from who knows.

>>3841399
>>>Stick to the alleys and go looking for Archer!
I think Berzerker glowing confirms what one anon speculated about him having buffs versus multiple foes.

>>3841399
>>>Return to finish off Iris!
Finish the mission. Saber can kick the crap out of the other Servant. No way she jobs line she did to Archer.
>>3841542
>another
Who's the first one? We have Tomoe Gozen (Jap), Fer Diad (Celt), Assassin (unknown), Rider (unknown), Lancer (unknown), Caster (unknown), Archer (unknown), Berserker of Stamford Bridge? (Norse), and now this new chick.

>>3841399
>>>Return to finish off Iris!
We can try to survive Archer's NP later on

>>3842269
What, when we're dead?

>>3842232
>>3842269
Do you think they're even still there? Surely Caster can sense Rider and Saber are now here.

>>3842232
It just isn't a real Holy Grail War without the Japanese, Irish and Greeks fighting for a German mug.

Can't finish the update tonight, unfortunately. I'll try to push it out early tomorrow. Sorry.

Guys I figured out who Assassin is.
>Modern
>Uses guns
>Dour, hates fun
>Just stands around while the girl he's with flirts with someone else.
He's Elliot Rodger.

>>3841998
>to modern to have become a Heroic Spirit
Why is this a restriction? The throne of heroes exists outside of time. It shouldn't matter when you become a heroic spirit so long as you do eventually. It's also very possible to summon servants who aren't heroic spirits yet in your timeline, like EMIYA.

>>3843372
>EMIYA
>heroic spirit
Big laff.
The more recent a Servant, the weaker they are due to the fact that as time went on, individual humans got weaker and mystery diminished.

Go ahead.
Bring up SERAPH and the Moon Cell summoning Armstrong
I dare you.

>>3843382
What's the deal with that anyway? I know the mooncell can summon up ineligible heroes because se.ra.ph isn't the same as the throne, but wasn't there no moon landing in the extraverse timeline?
What'd he become famous for there, being the first man on Mars?

>>3843528
It's because nothing about the Moon Cell makes any fucking sense.
There's that whole retconned bit with Arc showing up if you want proof that Nasu didn't think this shit through.

>>3843372
EMIYA is a bad example, he only became a Servant because he contracted with the world as a Counter Guardian, not because Sword Autist ever became recognized as a hero.

>>3843382
>Can summon the man that sailed across a big puddle to find a new country
>Can't summon the man that literally left Gaia in nothing but a tin can wearing a fish bowl helmet and strutted his stuff in Crimson Moon Brunestud living room
Heroic Spirits are saved on the Throne because of their effect on Human history, Armstong would be saved but he'd just be a weak Heroic Spirit since he comes from a time with low Mystery as opposed to a time when you had people suplexing dragons and demons everyday.

>>3843624
>Heroic Spirits are saved on the Throne because of their effect on Human history
This is FGO's nonsense, the kind of stuff that justifies Tesla as a lightning god. Heroic Spirits are those who have risen far beyond the bounds of humanity as well as made a legend. The decline of mystery gradually made it impossible to do both at once.
Armstrong is a terrible example also because 99% of his accomplishment was the work of others at NASA. At least Columbus led his own expedition. There's a reason why the "one small step" quote is meaningful: it's an admission of the tiny role he played in the achievement.

>>3843636
>Heroic Spirits are those who have risen far beyond the bounds of humanity as well as made a legend.
To be fair I'd classify leaving your own planetary body when you don't have any natural flight capabilities as going pretty far beyond humanity's boundaries.

>>3843661
>beyond humanities natural boundaries
Yes, so is travelling at high-speed in a car.
What's your point?

>>3843661
It isn't, though. That's the point. People like Artoria or Cu Chulainn were truly superhuman, while the achievements of modern heroes, made with technology, are purely within human capabilities. It's the human mind put to mundane work, and the achievements are made by amassing large numbers of these mundane people and having them work together. Spaceflight is the heroism equivalent of a million monkeys at typewriters making a novel. It may be a shocking event, but you wouldn't call any one of the monkeys a great writer.
There are moderns who have gone beyond human limits. Zelretch and the other Sorcerers are the prime examples. Due to the constraints of mystery, they need to keep their achievements hidden, though; so they cannot become heroic spirits. On the other hand, we have people like Armstrong, or political leaders, or sports stars, who achieve incredible fame while remaining perfectly mundane humans. These, too, cannot become heroic spirits. Do you see my point?

>>3843661
>>3843668
Let me clarify what I mean by superhuman. In F/SN, it's stated that Servants are weaker than the heroic spirits they're based on were when they were alive. They have to be cut down to fit into their class containers. In other words, the original Cu could kick Lancer's teeth in, and Saber would have a hell of a time going up against the real Artoria.
Now, consider that comparison with Armstrong, or Columbus, or Drake, or Tesla, or any of these more recent heroes. What's Neil Armstrong going to do when faced with a Servant? Call up NASA and hope they can build him a machine that lets him win?
After F/SN they started introducing heroes who simply weren't superhuman. Heroes not out of legend, but out of more and more recent history. The excuses they came up with to make them Servants became more and more contrived as time went on, and at this point it's just ridiculous. Totally out of step with how Servants were depicted and explained in the original work.

>>3843684
>Saber would have a hell of a time going up against the real Artoria.
Bad example to use considering the living servant thing but yeah, the class container does nerf her.

“We’re going after Archer!” you declare. While Berserker defends himself, you make your move! Saber in front and Ursula behind, you hurry across the alley in time with the resounding clang. The crazed Servant doesn’t follow.

“Stay in the alleys and out of sight!” you command. “Don’t let Archer target us!” Both of your companions hear and obey, hugging walls and dumpsters as closely as speed will allow, pressing forward in the direction of Archer. When you reach the first road, your whole team simply sprints to the other side. To slow would make you easier to shoot. You can’t see any particularly tall buildings over the tops of those you pass, so you don’t have a good guess as to where exactly Archer is camped out. As usual, you’ll have to rely on Saber in order to track down the enemy.

You continue tearing through backways for one, then two, then three more blocks. Despite your charge and the continued clangor to the rear, no more missiles fly. You begin to worry. Has Archer fled? Was that first arrow his singular contribution to the night’s chaos? If that’s so, should you turn around? You might still be able to rejoin the action, but if you return and Archer is simply waiting for an opportunity, then your back will be exposed. Staying the course is the wiser option, even if you come up empty-handed.

‘Master, he’s here,’ Saber eventually alerts you, rendering your worries null and void. Once your narrow path opens up a final time, the swordswoman turns down the street. You follow, and Ursula brings up the rear. What you expected to be a brief home stretch is cut even shorter just as you round the corner. A man waits for you on top of a short dry cleaning establishment several buildings away on the opposite side of the street. His impressive muscles remain somewhat defined under his loose hoodie and sweatpants.

“Back for another round, are you? I didn’t know the first was so enjoyable,” he taunts, focused on your Servant. Saber’s hands knead the hilt of her weapon restlessly. She looks like she wants to pounce, but you suspect she’s holding back to guard you. The large man pays little mind and looks down at himself, indicating his sweatshirt. “Oh, this is rude of me, isn’t it? I suppose disguise is meaningless after our last encounter. I look better without it, anyway.”

His figure is obscured by mist for a moment, and then the haze disperses, revealing Archer’s true form - which, truth be told, isn’t any different in physique, but his clothing is radically altered. He wears a bronze muscle cuirass with an armored skirt and greaves of the same material above his sandals. It’s the classic look of an ancient Greek soldier. Tan skin now covers his still-titanic build, with curly golden hair and beard to crown his head. In one huge, sinewy arm is a wooden composite bow; in the other, a bronze arrow.

“What do you think?” Archer says playfully, slowly turning to show himself off. “Quite a looker, am I not?”

He completely exposes his back to you, but Saber doesn’t budge. When Archer finishes his rotation, he frowns quietly. The Servants glare at each other, neither wanting to make the first move.

“Edgar,” the soft breath of a whisper tickles your ear. Ursula has come up beside you and now leans over your shoulder. She’s cupping her hand to direct her whisper and probably to prevent Archer from reading her lips. “Everyone, bait. You, ice. Saber, kill.”

The fight will break out soon regardless of what you do. Better to have a plan than let this play itself out.

>>Ursula is onto something. Trick Archer into getting close, pen him in with ice, and let Saber handle the rest. Archer only needs to be slowed momentarily.
>>Ursula’s suggestion is too risky. Have Saber occupy Archer while you look for his Master. You have a score to settle.
>>Find an excuse to hide your mouth and use a Command Spell to propel Saber to Archer. With the boost she receives, Archer won’t have time to react.
>>(Write-in)

>>3843771
>>Ursula is onto something. Trick Archer into getting close, pen him in with ice, and let Saber handle the rest. Archer only needs to be slowed momentarily.

>>3843771
I can't believe Odysseus is in both Fate quests on the board. That guy sure does get around.

>>3843771
>Ursula is onto something. Trick Archer into getting close, pen him in with ice, and let Saber handle the rest. Archer only needs to be slowed momentarily.

>>3843771
>Ursula is onto something. Trick Archer into getting close, pen him in with ice, and let Saber handle the rest. Archer only needs to be slowed momentarily.
It's a reasonable plan. Mr. Legendarily Wily over here will probably get out of it, but we can at least try.

>>3843771
>>Ursula is onto something. Trick Archer into getting close, pen him in with ice, and let Saber handle the rest. Archer only needs to be slowed momentarily.

>>3843799
He was also a Servant of the protagonist in one of the oldest Fate quest on /tg/.

>>3843771
>>>Ursula is onto something. Trick Archer into getting close, pen him in with ice, and let Saber handle the rest. Archer only needs to be slowed momentarily.
Let's listen to someone who was literally made for combat
I am pretty sure she's better at the whole strategy thing that Edgar too
Also how does she know about ice?

>>3843771
>>Ursula is onto something. Trick Archer into getting close, pen him in with ice, and let Saber handle the rest. Archer only needs to be slowed momentarily.
It's a real Grail War now we've got the Greeks.

>>3843771
>>>Ursula is onto something. Trick Archer into getting close, pen him in with ice, and let Saber handle the rest. Archer only needs to be slowed momentarily.


>amazing fighter
>good tactician
>loyal
>dutiful
Too bad her other mental faculties makes this a shameful boner.

>>3843771
>>Ursula is onto something. Trick Archer into getting close, pen him in with ice, and let Saber handle the rest. Archer only needs to be slowed momentarily.

>>3843771
>>>Ursula is onto something. Trick Archer into getting close, pen him in with ice, and let Saber handle the rest. Archer only needs to be slowed momentarily.
Important question: how does his package look in the sweats?
>>3843865
>Too bad her other mental faculties makes this a shameful boner.
IQ is just a number.

>>3843920
I'm not saying i wouldn't, just that I would feel the need to ask her minders first.