Where we left off...
You pause for a moment, before giving Liliesviel an answer. Now that you consider it, you're not completely certain that betraying the Emiya family now is the right idea. Suppose that this is all a ploy. You can't imagine that Liliesviel would betray you, but with Niemand you're not so certain. Perhaps he's only manipulating you into fighting the Einzberns' battles. It seems as if he's deceiving his Master, after all. Liliesviel referred to "that arsonist Servant," but if Niemand had truly learned everything about you and told her, she would know the truth about Kōrakuhime, and that you have no reason to look for her other than deceiving the Emiya family. She seems ignorant of this fact, however. Could she have a similarly false notion of your own identity, some story told her by Niemand in order to make it easier for the girl to use and betray you?

But no, such worrying is ridiculous. Even if Niemand is planning your downfall, that fact is unimportant. What matters is Emiya, and his intentions towards the Holy Grail. Whether or not it's truly cursed as he says, whether or not Niemand intends to betray you, the Holy Grail represents your only path to survival after the War and Emiya intends to destroy it. For the sake of your survival, then, he and his family must be wiped out. That still leaves you with the choice between Liliesviel's two plans, though. She's looking at you expectantly, her ruby eyes full of hope and seeking your approval. She really has grown astonishingly attached to you in such a short time.

"We should pursue the former plan," you declare. "Emiya may be our first priority, but the fact remains that Berserker is a dangerous threat, and one that Emiya and his companions have proven effective in combating. If we destroy Berserker together, then turn on Emiya, we'll have eliminated one of our most significant threats while at the same time weakening the enemy combatants in preparation for defeating them."

"Heee~h?" Liliesviel sounds uncertain about your plan. "What if Emiya's wife absorbs Berserker after he dies, though? We have to make sure she dies before any other Servants do. But she wasn't there when you went out to fight together last time."

"That's a valid point," you concede, "but isn't there some way you can make sure that the Einzbern grail is the one to take in Berserker's power? Perhaps if you were present for his defeat, you could use your family's magic to ensure his power doesn't escape."

"Maybe," Liliesviel says hesitantly. "I don't know how Emiya's wife's power works, so I can't be sure." She pauses for a moment, absently touching a finger to her chin as she considers the idea. "But if you think it would be the best way, I'll give it a try, Onii-chan."

"Excellent," you reply. "How should we stay in contact? I'll need some way of informing you when and where Emiya and I are battling against Berserker."

"Oh, you don't need to worry about that," Liliesviel says cheerily. "We'll keep an eye on you tonight, so you can just focus on getting Emiya to go out hunting that rogue Servant again." Without waiting for your reply, she suddenly claps her hands together. "Stachel, Stengel," she calls, "you can bring our other guest back out now!" Then, to you, she continues, "I think that's everything we need to talk about today, right?"

"Yes," you say, and get to your feet as the maids lead Ayaka back into the room. "I suppose it is. I'll look forward to seeing you again this evening, Liliesviel."

Ayaka doesn't say anything for a few moments, just looking at you and Liliesviel with an oddly vacant expression. You can't help but wonder just how hard she took Liliesviel's comments about her suitability as a Master. The poor girl looks as if she's in shock.

"Our discussion is over, Miss Ayaka," you tell her. "Let's get back down to the car. I'll explain our course of action while we're on the way home." Your Master nods, and soundlessly follows you out of the building. During the entire time you spend in the elevator and the walk out of the Einzbern Tower's lobby, she stays silent, but animation does gradually return to her features and movements as you grow more distant from Liliesviel's penthouse. Once you're finally on the road, you ask, "How are you feeling, Miss Ayaka? Liliesviel spoke very harshly to you earlier."

"I'm sorry, Saber-san," she says, tone redolent with despair. "You shouldn't have a Master like me. Everything that girl said was right. I can't make decisions, I can't fight. I'm no good as a person or a magus! I couldn't even stand up to a little girl like that. When she said all those things about me... it was all so true, Saber-san! I couldn't stand there and pretend I deserved to be with you. You should have a real magus like that girl for a Master instead. I just.... I... I..." Large tears slip down her cheeks as Ayaka dissolves into incoherence, losing track of what she's trying to convey.

"Miss Ayaka," you say firmly, cutting off her uncertain speech. "You have nothing to apologize to me for. You are the ideal Master; I wouldn't choose Liliesviel over you if I had a thousand opportunities to decide."

"Wh-what do you mean?" Ayaka blinks her tear-filled eyes, looking confusedly at you through her haze of self-loathing and recrimination. "I can't do any of the things a Master is supposed to," she says, starting to launch back into her litany of negativity, but you don't let her continue.

"You do exactly what my Master needs to do," you tell the girl. "You provide me with the energy I need to survive and you've given me the ability to grow stronger. Miss Ayaka, do you believe that I would be alive after battling Berserker if I had not absorbed a portion of Rider's energy; the energy your ritual allowed me to take in? I won't salve my pride by ignoring the truth. My skills kept me alive in that fight, but so did Heiligöffnungschwert's power. If anyone but you had been my Master, I wouldn't have that power."

Ayaka gives you an uncertain look, and after several seconds the girl manages to put a stop to her tears. "Yes," she says, "I guess you did gain some power from the ritual, huh?" For a moment her spirits seem to be lifting, until her expression suddenly falls once more. "But still," she says, "that doesn't change anything about my incompetence. I'd be a better Master if I could fight, or make plans, wouldn't I? Just admit that you hate being saddled with a burden like me."

"You may find this difficult to believe," you say, "but I truly don't find you a burden. For me, you are the ideal Master. You cannot fight? So much the better; the important thing for a Master to do is remain alive, anchoring my existence. A combat-capable Master like your brother would feel compelled to take part in the battle, and possibly die as a result; you show more prudence. As for your decision-making, well," you chuckle in spite of yourself at the idea of someone thinking you'd want them to make decisions for you. "I value my role in our partnership a great deal."

"Really?" Ayaka still sounds distraught, unsure whether she can believe you. "You mean it's, it's okay for me to be like this? You wouldn't rather go to that Liliesviel girl?"

"It's alright, Miss Ayaka," you insist, keeping your voice warm and reassuring. "You're not a burden on me, and I will not abandon you. I told you this morning, didn't I? No matter what happens, I won't leave you to face the world alone. Not after your brother died on my behalf."

Ayaka lays her hand over your free one, on the armrest between you. You can still feel her shaking slightly, but she seems to have mostly calmed down. After a long silence, she says, "Thank you, Saber-san," in a more controlled voice. It seems you've gotten through the worst.

The rest of the drive passes quickly as you explain the plan you and Liliesviel made to dispose of Emiya, and soon you're back home at the Shijou manor. By your watch, it's not about 3:00pm. You know what you'll be doing tonight, but for now there's the last of the afternoon to use in preparation.

>[ ] Go and discuss the new developments with Kōrakuhime. (Duty)

>[ ] Return to the room you used to train with Kōrakuhime this morning and experiment with summoning. (Pride)

>[ ] Head directly to the Emiya residence. After the last fight with Berserker, you want as much time as possible to discuss strategy with them. (Self-Preservation)

>[ ] Do something else (Write in)

>>3717506
>[ ] Return to the room you used to train with Kōrakuhime this morning and experiment with summoning. (Pride)
I still want to backstab that smug asshole Niemand.

With Sadpanda resurrected Alberich power is renewed.

>>3717506
>[ ] Go and discuss the new developments with Kōrakuhime. (Duty)

>>3717506
>[ ] Return to the room you used to train with Kōrakuhime this morning and experiment with summoning. (Pride)

>>3717506
>>3717513
Of course, to actually do that, I realised Korakuhime will need to advise.
So switch to...
>[ ] Go and discuss the new developments with Kōrakuhime. (Duty)

We need to find how the hell we're being watched, and also potentially some backstab planning.

Sumenai, summoning.

>>3717506
>[ ] Go and discuss the new developments with Kōrakuhime. (Duty)

>>3717561
We might have to obscure the conversation, both visually and audibly.

>>3717568
This is assuming that a mental link is impossible.

>>3717516
Top reply, anon. You made me laugh.

So we never got to hear exactly how to kill Achilles from Niemand. That might've been a good idea. Most likely it has something to do with his heels but who knows for sure?

>>3717590
"Trust me bro, I know how to kill Achilles."
Gee thanks Niemand.
I'm pretty certain everyone does.

I'm finally getting around to reading Lolita, and I think Alberich would find Humbert Humbert a compelling and relatable protaganist.

>Alberich pep-talking Ayaka
Aww, giving me Iskandar memories. How cute.

>>3717590
Working on the assumption that the Einzbern broke the rules and summoned a lesser form of a god, he probably has some "always strikes true" bullshit that autohits the target. Hence, heel-stabby and berserker dies.

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>>3717671
Fuck the Gods. Overpowered assholes.

Honestly we're fucked as soon as Niemand tells Lily about Korakuhime.
We know nothing about his motivations.

>>3717506
>[ ] Go and discuss the new developments with Kōrakuhime. (Duty)
Hopefully talking to our sister now before Niemand is supposed to watch us will spare our conversation from his prying eyes.

>>3717506
>[ ] Go and discuss the new developments with Kōrakuhime. (Duty)
We're going to be monitored and I don't like that. Also damn, Ayaka got hit REALLY HARD from that trash talk. How much affection points did we score after that pep-talk?

>>3717720
>We know nothing about his motivations.
You know he's been consistently helping you out so far.

>>3717506
>[ ] Go and discuss the new developments with Kōrakuhime. (Duty)
Likely the smartest course of action given the situation we are in.

>>3717761
And now I'm even less trusting of him.

>>3717671
>I'm finally getting around to reading Lolita, and I think Alberich would find Humbert Humbert a compelling and relatable protaganist.
Want to expand on that point? I read it like 10 years ago, so I only really remember the general plot at this point.

>>3717794
It's mostly a banal joke about being attracted to just-pubescent girls. We'd need to up Alberich's desire stat by maybe 50 to get him REALLY relating to the poor, creepy yuro. Humbert's way of seeing life as colorless and uninspiring (aside from his fetish) would be relatable to Alberich. Also, Humbert is based and hag-pilled.

>>3717779
It is shaped like he has some really unusual agenda just like Judas had but I feel like this should be our last guess about his plan simply because how wishful thinking it is. It is much more believable that he is just some manipulative politician who prefer do play mastermind and use people against eachother only to deliver decisive blow in perfect time. With him regarding his Master as some overseeing institution who better off just falling in line with his agenda.

>>3717794
He's a pedo.
Why is Alberich a pedo again? I'm not a big fan of the direction you're going with that, even if it's not really represented much in the quest

>>3717821
>Why is Alberich a pedo again?
All because of Hitler.

>>3717821
>Why is Alberich a pedo again?
Because he's three weeks old and all of his sexual-adjacent encounters have been with (admittedly beautiful) servants that look like underaged girls. Me myself, I blame Hitler.

I don't really see it as an issue though. Alberich isn't some raging satyr, and Sweets isn't a lowbrow fetishist. The quest won't devolve into something terrible because of it.

>>3717815
>It's mostly a banal joke about being attracted to just-pubescent girls.
Ah, I see. Since you brought up that you were reading it, I was thinking it was a reference to some more obscure detail.
Yeah, the colorless thing is definitely a parallel; although it's also a general genre trope of mentally ill characters to have no engagement with life beyond a specific focus.

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>>3717816
He's straight up hiding stuff from her if he's aware of all of our activities.
He'd be aware of our origin, also.

We're unbelievably fucked if he decides to backstab us and tell Lily.
If we backstab him first, then we could ease Lily into the truth, rather than allow him to drop our identity on her whenever he wants.
His existence is a threat to both our identity and continued existence.
He must be destroyed.

>>3717821
>>3717831
Just think: If you'd picked Lancer at the beginning, all this could be different...

>>3717821
Circe and Adelheid's fault.
Both look rather young.
Charisma Rank A from Adelheid and whatever the fuck Circe was doing to us when we were asleep probably didn't help much either.

>>3717856
You mean if we picked Archer

>Servant voting
Lol, I remember supporting lancer for absolutely no reason back then. I knew nothing about Fate and just thought spear>>>magic.

>>3717856
What was your plan Brynhildr anyway? Dead ends if we mass affection points?

>>3717870
I maintain that Caster was the best choice out of every servant.

>>3717870
>You mean if we picked Archer
What, you don't think Brynhildr's enough of a non-loli?
>>3717874
It would've definitely been a tightrope.

>>3717889
You have to admit Archer would've been cooler, if not more effective.

>>3717895
If I could go back in time I would reject waifus in the name of badass

>tfw Judas stages an intervention and tries to get you to stop being a lolicon but you tell him to fuck off and gouge out his heart.
Sorry dad.

>>3717909
If he told Rushorou he would get more power if he had killed one or both of Adelheid and Circe it would have been a great character development moment

>>3717908
Archer wouldn't have been so effective and Circe as our enemy would've been nightmarish.
Shirou dead ends to Caster the most in SN.

>>3717908
Your Servant was always going to be a waifu, anon. If you'd picked Archer, Blondie wouldn't have been in the war.

>>3717914
That would kind of ruin his whole deception though.
And he'd still have told him to fuck off, don't be silly.
He was still under the impression that there was a wish available at the time.

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>>3717922
...... you said that earlier, didn't you? Damn it, Revolver Rushorou was always an impossible dream.

>>3717918
I said I agreed, no? Caster was objectively the best choice in the end for both winning the war and developing Alberich the Hero.

>>3717925
>And he'd still have told him to fuck off, don't be silly.
Perhaps

>>3717936
>perhaps
Like 99.99 percent certainty.
Alberich/Rushorou doesn't lust for power at the expense of those he considers closest to him.
It's one of his few positive character traits.

>>3717954
I likely would have voted to the contrary. It's a character trait that I have consistently voted against, going back to "Cid" taking Matsuda hostage.

>>3717963
And you would've been massively outvoted. It would've been massively OOC for Rushorou to do so.
Or even to believe Judas if he told the truth at that point.
>"Actually no lmao there's no wish, kill one of your waifus to make yourself stronger."

>>3717971
>It would've been massively OOC
If sweets presents something as a vote, then any listed option can be interpreted as being IC. You're correct about the incompatibility of the framing for the question, so I suppose I'm arguing for a moot point.

The thing is that "kill one of them to become stronger" basically was the proposition at the time.
Remember that Rushorou's wish for the grail was to become the most powerful being in the moonlit world, or something along those lines.

>>3717997
At least at the time, the existence of another servant for the completion of the "ritual" rendered it a irrelevant issue for me. You can't make an all powerful ritual empowered wish MORE all powerful.

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>>3717985
Honestly, I doubt anyone is stupid enough to kill the person they love for something so vague as "a wish" or "you'll get stronger".
You'd have to be REALLY STUPID to fall for that.

>>3718016
Kek

>>3718014
The fact Rushorou took a harder path to his wish instead of killing one of his Servants and taking the easy route still kind of speaks volumes about him.

>>3717997
Well that was the choice as presented by Cid. The real choice was either kill Circe or Adelheid, or fight Cid and kill assassin. Killing one of his allies was an option for achieving his goals, but not a requirement. I'm interested to see how Albreich would choose in a situation where he was forced to make a decision between his friends and his aspirations.

>>3718043
>I'm interested to see how Albreich would choose in a situation where he was forced to make a decision between his friends and his aspirations.
Anon shut up stop giving him ideas

>>3718043
See the Matsuda hostage situation or running off to save Circe.
Friends win, every time.
Rushorou/Alberich is an excellent friend/husbando.

>>3718048
I wouldn't hold your breath for a scene like that. It's really hard to engineer a situation where there was no other possible option but sacrificing your friends without liberal use of contrivances. That said, my point still stands.

Now I'm curious to what the other Servants would have been besides Bryn and Ado.

>>3718071
If you comb the Awakening Mirror archives I'm pretty sure you'll find a post by sweets listing every one.

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>>3718071
>Bryn and Ado
>Ado
I wish.
Ado Edem is OP.

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>>3718065
It's a good thing Alberich doesn't have an insanely simple and easy-to-challenge code of ideals

>>3718086
The name "slash emperor" never fails to get a chuckle out of me.

>>3718054
Not needlessly abandoning valuable allies doesn't necessarily mean there isn't a point where sacrificing them would seem viable. What if the Grail, for whatever contrived reason needed Ayaka's corpse to function. Setting aside the fact that such a situation would be pattently retarded, would Albreich sacrifice her to survive?

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>>3718092
Good question, we should ask Shirou.

>>3718099
>Ywn get a best girl so best that she would die to resurrect you
Shirou deserves what he's gonna get

>>3718111
Speaking of which, what is he going to get? If I recall correctly, you folks were in the middle of debating what to do about the Emiya family when the last thread archived.

>>3718119
I personally want to kill them, both to eliminate loose ends and because Sakura is looking REALLY tasty. I'm probably going to compromise with all the people who want them alive for one reason or another.

>>3718125
>Sakura is looking REALLY tasty.
Anon, no.

>>3718119
Good question.
For now I just want him to get the fuck out of our way and the city.
I think knowing how much danger he's put his loved ones in should cause him a nice amount of suffering.

Possible mental alterations later

>>3718125
>Sakura is looking REALLY tasty
In this episode, Alberich becomes the Shadow.

>>3718119
I want him to get a terminal case of death.

>>3718125
>Sakura is looking REALLY tasty
Anon YES

>>3718137
First worm-woman, next the Tokyo metropolitan area.

>>3718158
Absorbing Sakura's energy could potentially have some negative consequences.
I don't really want to risk it.
The plan to backstab Niemand and force the Emiyas out of Tokyo works better for us than just following instructions.
I don't see why everyone wants Sword Autist dead so much.

Huh.
Remember when we as Rushorou tried to tell everyone in the war that Judas was playing everyone?
This is kind of a parallel to that in a way.

Except we're the one being played.

The whole "Emiya is planning to betray you" argument doesn't really hold up considering the actions he's taken.
He's still an obstacle, but not one that deserves to be mercilessly crushed.

>>3718091
Considering a lot of our tactics in the coming battle are dependant on Ayaka's ritual, I would like a general explanation on how it's done. The image of sacrificing the dove made it seem like a physically prepared ritual but we never saw how Ayaka performed the ritual when we fought Roland. I want to know how long it takes to do and what's involved in the preparation.

>>3718173
The very existence of a rogue element like the Emiyas capable of interfering in a conflict so integral to Alberich's survival is unacceptable. Also, in killing them he could get some sacrificial energy which could prove key to his victory in the war.

>The plan to backstab Niemand and force the Emiyas out of Tokyo works better for us than just following instructions.
Why do we have to let them live after finishing off Niemand? The "get forced allies" argument is nonsensical to me, and the idea we could intimidate them into letting us do as we please is absurd.

>>3718199
Y'know, it probably *is* a good idea to get an understanding of the general mechanics of the all-important ritual. Time to ask Ayaka after informing Tsubaki.

>>3718198
We're not being played at all though. We're going into this expecting to betrayed. The plan is to betray Neimand harder and faster than he can. It actually is quite similar to the Cid situation. We still fought the war because it served our interests and always understood that we would need to defeat Cid when we obtained the opportunity.

>>3718199
Good point, both betraying the Emiyas and killing Rider or backstabbing Niemand would require the ritual be a rapid thing.
Is it time to monologue at the Emiyas until Ayaka can target Niemand?

TACTICAL MONOLOGUE.
This plan just keeps getting better and better.

>>3718208
>Tactical monologue
Now this really brings a smile to my face

>>3718205
Finally, someone's talking sense. If you think the emiyas will step aside and let us subjugate them you're either lying to yourself out of sympathy for them or a fool.

>>3718205
>idea we can intimidate them is absurd
>can literally just threaten Sakura so Rider and Shirou won't do shit. Rin, even if she was willing to endanger Sakura isn't strong enough to make a difference alone.
It's not hard, anon.
Having Circe mind control them wouldn't be that hard either.
The only challenge is Rider, but even Saber breaks under Medea's magic eventually.

>>3718208
Tactical monologue reminds me of the Sota Voca from joker quest. It was a weapon designed to blast enemies with undetectable radiation while you stalled them with dialogue.

>>3718220
>"I'll kill your wife/sister/master, so fuck off"
Forgive me if I think this will make them more inclined to oppose Alberich than not.

>>3718215
It's surprisingly simple though.
If the Emiyas believe that they can't go out at night otherwise Sakura and the Kids will be in danger, they've got a few options.
>Stay at the house, eliminating the threat they pose
>Leave the city, eliminating the threat they pose
>bring Sakura out at night, endangering the kids at home and Sakura, who isn't a combatant.
You see the idea?

>>3718228
>"I have a Caster right outside your house ready to activate a killing field, so fuck off or die."
Why even bother keeping Tsubaki alive if we aren't gonna use her to any extent?

>>3718238
But why make such a use of Tsubaki rather than just killing them, permanently eliminating the threat?

>>3718242
Because they are like the least threatening threat ever, and have also shown us hospitality.
If it weren't for our intervention they would all already be dead.
Having Circe being able to get us all the knowledge of a Sorcerers apprentice with her memory manipulation magic could also be useful.
They are fantastic tools.
And I don't want to upset Taiga and Illya.

>>3718256
>Because they are like the least threatening threat ever, and have also shown us hospitality
Meaningless emotionality, unbefitting a superior entity like Alberich
>If it weren't for our intervention they would all already be dead.
Meh, sunk cost
>Having Circe being able to get us all the knowledge of a Sorcerers apprentice with her memory manipulation magic could also be useful.
This is true.
>They are fantastic tools.
Unreliable, dangerous tools who largely fill unnecessary niches. We don't need Shirou the sword, we only need Medusa for the duration of the Berserker fight, we don't REALLY need Rin, and Sakura's energy is the only useful part about her.
>And I don't want to upset Taiga and Illya
Damn, that's compelling.....

I think that the destruction of a threat and acquisition of sacrificial energy is on the whole better than tenuous allies and not disappointing the Dojo grills. You don't. I suppose the masses must decide the Emiya's fate.

>>3718256
We didn't get this far by underestimating our opponents anon. Your reasoning for keeping them alive is based entirely in sentimentality rather than any kind of pragmatism. Besides, I would much rather have Kirei's Confessional than the Tiger dojo. Don't you want Kirei and Judas to confront you with all your failures anon?

>>3718277
>I would much rather have Kirei's Confessional than the Tiger dojo.
I agree with you, but this is absolutely abysmal taste.

>>3718270
Here's a question.
If we turn Shirou into a Fake Noble Phantasm factory for our new empire...
And Adelheid's NP includes the line
"as she can manifest the powers of any product of the nation she represents"

Do you think we could somehow combine the two to make her incredibly bullshit?

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>>3718277
>>3718284
>My players are talking about how they prefer the new Fate quest in my own thread

>>3718299
I prefer the Taiga Dojo, Sweets.
Kirei is mean.

>>3718299
Oi, I agreed with his point on dealing with our enemies. I was pointing out his lack of taste in choosing comedic afterlifes.

>>3718293
Or, hear me out here: we eat his soul and THEN make use of his abilities.

>>3718299
I haven't read overgrowth, I read the idea in an earlier thread of Mirror.

>>3718306
>>3718309
Well, that's a relief.

>>3718317
What an interesting coincidence.

>>3718270
That wasn't a sunk cost fallacy, that was me pointing out their lack of competence
In dying to the first servant they fought.

>Unreliable, dangerous tools who largely fill unnecessary niches. We don't need Shirou the sword, we only need Medusa for the duration of the Berserker fight, we don't REALLY need Rin, and Sakura's energy is the only useful part about her.
Brainwashing makes everyone reliable.
>we dont need Shirou
Free Noble Phantasms is super useful.
>we only need Medusa for Berserker fight
Right now maybe, look to the future.
>we don't REALLY need Rin
A large amount of info on the world we intend to fight against as well as knowledge on the Second Magic is way too useful.
>Sakura's energy is the only useful part about her
True, but having her as a mana battery is more useful in the long run than powering up a single thing.

>>3718317
That won't work.
UBW is a reality marble unique to Shirou.
Alberich copying it would make something totally different.
Also he's not EMIYA so it's a moot point as we can't copy anything not from a Servant.

>>3717506
>>[ ] Go and discuss the new developments with Kōrakuhime. (Duty)
We need to talk to her about how to schedule the kidnappings.
I also want some protection talisman for Ayaka, so when the inevitable betrayal of Niemand comes he will be surprised.

>>3718293
It's not "represents" as in the way a politician represents his constituents. Adelheid is a personification of Germany as seen through the eyes of Hitler during the high-water mark of German success in WWII. That's the nation she represents.

>>3718346
Dream Crusher EX before the 100th post.

>>3718358
Well I still think it's a pretty great noble phantasm.

>>3718331
He does have servant equivalent magical energy though so I'd rather slay him for the "upgrade point" then keep him around to be maybe brainwashed by the servant we don't currently have with us into maybe making some swords we don't actually need right now.

>>3718366
Time to name our empire "Germany as seen through the eyes of Hitler during the high-water mark of German success in WWII"
Checkmate, Dreamcrusher.

>>3718366
It's really fukken neato. Not op, but thematically additive.

>>3718372
Alberich & co roleplaying as moon-nazis returning to inherit the earth is a major win in my book.

>>3718372
Real question:
Would it be worth it?
Imagine ruling over the nation people abbreviate as FASTTEOHDTHMOGSIW for all eternity.

>>3718324
>Brainwashing makes everyone reliable.
I agree. That said to reliably brainwash a magi or a servant we would need Circe and we still haven't found her.
Meaning we would need them to wait like sheep for us to do that to them and I really don't think it's wise to depend on nothing happening in that time.

>>3718383
>Typo'd!
GASTTEOHDTHMOGSIW, I meant.

>>3718385
That's why I want them out of the city.
Shirou and Rider can't really operate outside of Sakura's range.
They are too useful.
>>3718369
It's wasteful though.
Might not work either.
If it does work that way, even more of a reason to keep Sakura and Co. alive and brainwashed.

Infinite power-ups by putting people into puppet bodies and empowering them massively with a magical energy surplus.

>>3718407
>That's why I want them out of the city.
So you want to leave them with a shit ton of energy (Sakura), outside of our sight, with a reason for stopping us and someone pretty skilled in magic with connections (Rin) and expect them not to do something to screw us over?

>>3718422
As I mentioned last thread, Rin can't do shit with her connections.
She tries anything too obvious and it's a full on Church vs Mage Association war.

>>3718431
She can talk with Zelretch who wanted her to stop this in the first place. Shirou definitely wouldn't want her to sit by while the grail war completes.

And you also ignored how Rin is still a competent magi and Sakura a huge walking mana supplier. You are literally giving a caster time to prepare and choose when to attack.

>>3718436
>comparing Rin to a Caster
lol.
We can have Tsubaki scry on them whenever we want. If they plan against us even after being shown our mercy then we can kill the children in front of them.

If Zelretch actually gave a shit, there's nothing we could do.
He's likely observing everything anyway.
He's bullshit like that.

>>3718442
>We can have Tsubaki scry on them whenever we want. If they plan against us even after being shown our mercy then we can kill the children in front of them.
Yes, because Tsubaki has nothing better to do than to babysit them. We couldn't possibly use her abilities to help with Lancer, Archer or Saber.
>If Zelretch actually gave a shit, there's nothing we could do.
Not until after the war. And unless he keeps really close taps on her which I doubt the only way he will notice anything is if anyone like Rin tell him something is off or Rin fails to show up after the grail war.

>>3718456
Anon.
It's a grail war, the thing he helped design and takes personal interest in due to the whole Root thing.
Iirc he's literally observing the war of Strange Fake.

We don't have to babysit them either, just scry them once or twice a day.

>>3718442
>hubrisfagging this hard

Zelretch and his incredibly vague powers have become my least favorite part of the Nasuverse since I started writing this quest.

>>3718472
>Third True Magic
>manifest the soul, perpetual energy maybe and immortality maybe?

>Second True Magic
>literally fucking do anything, magical girls lmao

Thanks for never explaining one of the most important figures in your setting, Nasu.

>>3718442
>>comparing Rin to a Caster
>lol.
Not capital c caster but still. You give a spell caster time to prepare and a huge supply of mana and you are really asking for trouble.

And even then they could still aid some of the other masters against us.
>>3718469
And hope we get them at the exact moment we need to see all their plans? We have other masters to worry about and even if they plan against us what are we gonna do? Leave the grail war and take care of it?

>>3718490
You shouldn't overestimate the threat our enemies represent.
Especially when they dead end so often.
We can additionally give them a reason to leave by informing the organiser of their presence and getting the entire remaining war sent after them.

>>3718472
Lel

Wait, I take it back. Zelretch is irritating, but my real least favorite thing is the Fourth Sorcery. Take a gander at the entry in CM3:
>Fourth Sorcery
>Like the First Sorcery, the details of the Fourth are unknown. Its function is also not spoken of. But, the currently existing Sorcerers would all acknowledge the Fourth's existence and agree that "it definitely exists." Nobody knows the name of the user, either.

>>3718442
The real issue here is that the only real benifit of keeping them alive relies on them playing along for an indeterminate amount of time which creates a risk far disproportionate to the potential gain (which is currently unobtainable anyway). Killing the emiyas nets us a large amount of magical energy and eliminates them as a threat. The gain is much more concrete.

>>3718498
And you shouldn't underestimate them so blatantly. They are no Berserker but ignoring them and leaving them out of our reach because they don't represent any threat is just asking for trouble.
And informing the organiser? For what purpose if they come back they are obviously not sending a nice letter to every master informing them that now is the time to group up and defeat them.

>>3718517
Why does Nasu give so little fucks about the magic that drives the entire plot because of how important it is?

>>3718521
>relies on them playing along for an indeterminate amount of time
Even in the unlikely case they should play along, they also need to come back when we find Circe. Otherwise we gain nothing.

>>3718521
Killing the Emiyas also earns us the ire of our two... uh... Dead End Advisors.
Luvia might not appreciate Rin being murdered.
Zelretch might or might not maybe do something maybe.
And if all you care for is magical energy then we can just crash a train or kill Lily.

>>3718530
Dude, Types and Grand Servants yo. Look at EMIYA of EMIYA of EMIYA.

>>3718537
>Crash a train
But we can't drive trains bro.

>Kill Lily
Abominable, and locks us out of immortality in any case.

>>3718530
I want to say it's because he's a hack. It's a really tempting explanation.
I won't say that.
It's because of the property of Mystery. Due to the limited Mystery in the world after the end of the Age of Gods, magic becomes weaker and weaker as more is known about it. This is at its most blatant with the "magic to create a gold bar" metaphor Rin uses in the prologue, but it manifests throughout magus society. It stands to reason that the Sorcerers, who command the most powerful magic of all; that is to say, Sorcery; would take great pains to ensure it remains totally secret.
It's still very unsatisfying as someone trying to write in the universe, though. I guess this just gives me license to write the Fourth myself.

>>3718532
We plan to incarnate alongwith our allies, anon. Distance won't save them.

>>3718537
>And if all you care for is magical energy then we can just crash a train or kill Lily.
Yes, because killing the person we absolutely need to use the grail is comparable to pissing of Luvia, we never met.

>>3718498
You are tripping out on some Saturday morning cartoon hubris man. Are you really going to underestimate a plucky team of heros pushed to the edge to save their family? I bet you build arenas that contain your only weakness. I bet you put giant off buttons on your robots. I bet you build your fortresses with easily traversed spike pits and platforms. I bet you fill your dungeon chests with health potions. I bet you monologue in a tactically disadvantageous manner. I bet you send your superpowered goons to attack people one at a time.

>>3718550
Are you seriously just casually assuming we already have won the grail war?
Okay let's assume we already incarnated with the third magic and now have infinite mana with which we can call on the power of gods. Why exactly do we need the Emiyas again?

>>3718544
>need to drive a train to put a big rock in front of a train and order Tsubaki to use the Akeldama Derivative.
Huh...?
>killing Lily locks us out of immortality
Does it though?
Circe can allow us to live indefinitely.
Sakura can function as a grail.

>>3718558
>incarnated with infinite mana
?????
>>3718551
We can still crash trains for mana.

>>3718559
>Circe can allow us to live indefinitely.
Pretty sure she can't. But out of curiosity. How would she do that?
>Sakura can function as a grail.
Great now we just need someone like Lily who can use the grail.

>>3718544
>Crash a train
>But we can't drive trains bro.
What part of suplex do you not understand?

>>3718559
Ah, so you just want to replace legit immortality with the half-assed thing the Emiyas are doing. Ok. Seems like we're really going out of our way to not murder the Emiyas here...

>>3718566
>?????
Third magic. Ring any bells?

>>3718569
>Shamelessly stealing from Maverick Hunter Quest
Wow Sweets, I would consider this kind of Plagiarism beneath you. Sad!

>>3718569
The part where we aren't Sabin.

>>3718576
>Shamelessly stealing from Maverick Hunter Quest
From what now?

>>3718557
Anon, I'm not suggesting we kidnap anyone.
In suggesting we threaten them so they fuck off by saying we have Caster in position to kill Sakura.
If they don't want to take the chance they are given then they all die.

You guys don't think you'll just be able to get away with murdering Rin, Rider and Shirou and not expect Sakura to go fucking berserk, right?

>>3718581
We literally suplexed a train. Admittedly, this was to save lives rather than end them, but such is the way of these things.

>>3718558
I'm telling you man. He's a completely unreasonable hubrisfag. He's probably going to say that we should fight all the remaining servants at once when we're done with the coming clusterfuck.

>>3718589
Well, FFVI is pretty popular.

>>3718571
No anon, Sakura can literally function as a grail.
Not as a mana supply.
Don't be dumb.

>>3718590
>Alberich after eating Niemand, Achilles, Medusa, and Shirou
versus
>Worst Saber, Lancer, Archer

>>3718594
Bold of you to assume we would get the inputs in time.

>>3718595
As a legit one? I thought that she was a highly functional but still insufficient copy. Even so, I don't like it.

>>3718595
So we have a grail that at worst hates us and at best is indifferent. And we still lack the knowledge to use it without Lily.

>>3718594
I've never played any Final Fantasy, so there's that.

>>3718608
Lily who we're lying to and could be told at any time.
Your arguments are that you consider short term benefits (power up points) superior to long term benefits (large bank of information about the Mage Association, Noble Phantasms, expendable servant, mana reservoir).

I disagree with you and you won't change my mind.

>>3718600
Damn it Icarus!

>>3718600
You forgot that we have 3 allies sonewhere lying around as well as Tsubaki.

>>3718643
I was just stating the most hype situation. On one hand, yay! A battle where Honor of the Rear Guard gets it's fullest potential extracted! On the other hand, shit this is such a bad situation.

Also narratively I think it's more fun at least to leave Shirou alive long enough to realize we're actually evil.
Killing everyone immediately is kinda getting tiring.

Who else could we possibly make the how many breads quip to?
Saber?
Don't make me laugh.

>>3718691
That's a pretty compelling reason desu. Hopefully TACTICAL MONOLOGGING and good old protaganist bullshit can prolong the final battle enough to get some peak HF-climax feels

>>3718628
>Was it right to question the situation, and dash Liliesviel's hopes of a new ally in the Heaven's Feel? Was it proper to trust in this uncertain figure and become vulnerable to betrayal? Neither truly seemed appropriate.
You mean the Lily who was already told that we aren't who we pretend to be and who, even after barely knowing us, happily made up excuses to keep believing us to be her older brother?
Somehow I doubt she would be easier to convince that we should die now after we have spent some time with her.
>Your arguments are that you consider short term benefits (power up points) superior to long term benefits
And no. My argument is that your long term benefits will never manifest, because we will die to short term threats long before that.
And even when we take into account that as a quest it's very unlikely for us to not win then they still won't manifest because this quest ends with the grail war.

>>3718704
But then again, not having overly-dramatic final battles could be a pretty neat element of th Sweets-Nasu 'verse. Small joys piling up like the heads of Alberich's enemies, rather than bombastic but singular scenes.

>>3718717
>what is Arc 3
Anon...
Plan for the future.

>>3718727
Arc three is as mysterious as the fourth magic right now.

>>3718727
In arc three we would have the third magic aka the perpetuum mobile. We would be immortal in the truest sense of the word.
At that point the power the Emiyas give us would be irrelevant.

>>3718720
I don't know, merely triumphing over Saber or Archer or Lancer in our final battle will just feel hollow and easy.

Now a final battle against Shirou actually using a bow AND Saber, that would be both difficult and fun.

Killing everyone immediately has grown boring, honestly.

>>3718754
>assuming we'll get immortality and infinite mana even though Shirou, a product of the third magic, doesn't have any of that and needs Sakura's mana

Additionally if you suggest learning it ourselves, that's decades worth of learning.

>>3718755
>Killing everyone immediately has grown boring, honestly
Even with a billion powerups I imagine Saber and/or Lancer (no way we don't get Archer before those two) will be tough customers. I can't sympathize here. I have no doubts whatsoever that as long as we get a proper fight it will be just as cathartic as all the other times Alberich has brutally murdered someone.

>>3718760
Yeah, I'm pretty sure Shirou wasn't properly made immortal by the third magic. Revived yes, but not made immortal.

>>3718762
Saber should be possible to beat right now even with only the sword power up, honestly.
We'd have a chance at least.

>>3718773
Instinct is a powerful meme anon.

>>3718785
So is cutting Harris in half by purposely lining up a slash to kill him when she dodges it.
She also can't really be aggressive in a fight against a sword she can't parry.

>>3718768
If the third magic truly makes you immortal, how did the Einzbern lose it?

>>3718797
Counterforced?

>>3718801
Maybe, but if getting it immediately gets us counterforced I don't fucking want it.

>>3718797
Who the fuck knows? Maybe they got thrown out of the world into the reverse side?
They thought summoning a god of evil was a good idea I wouldn't be surprised that if they thought they have nothing to lose by being immortal they would try even stupider shit.

>>3718814
"Hey I'm immortal. why shouldn't I see how the root looks from the inside? I can't die after all."

>>3718820
>>3718814
>When you lose a sorcery because of magi being retarded and are too retarded to get it back
Based Austrians at it again.

>>3718833
Are we sure they're Austrian magi and not Australian magi?

Imagine though.
Shirou's reaction to *SUSPICIOUS TRAIN CRASH* would be so great.
He'd be so angry.
It would be great.

Tactical monologuing will be fun so we should do that anyway.
>Saber just goes on a long tangent about honor and dreams and shit before stabbing an old man halfway through the word "betrayal"

>>3718859
For a man with terrible ideas you sure know everything I love in a terrible idea. Fuck it. Supervillain time.

>>3718859
Rin and Medusa would give him so much shit for trusting a servant that looks like Alberich too. Assuming they don't die before the reveal of course.

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>>3718927
Albreich has a very trustworthy face.

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>>3718947
His fashion choices scream of an honest and upright morality

The brainwash plan might be risky, but claiming "too risky" as the sole reason behind not doing something would disappoint Adelheid, because come on.
Circe too, actually, but to a lesser extent.

Alberich is the same guy who once followed a pretty singing voice into the street where the only people at all outside would want him dead, so I'm pretty sure his self-preservation instinct for "this could in fact a bad plan" might be a little bit broken regardless.
Not saying this plan is THAT bad though, considering it actually has actual benefits other than "small chance of not dying" (we apparently really wanted to meet a German loli)

We can checkmate Emiya's faction without actually having to directly kill any of them (yet), to show our strategic superiority and how out of his depth he really is, how he could never save anyone if he can't even protect his own family etc.
Also we can laugh at them like a fucking lunatic to their faces, we haven't actually gotten the opportunity to properly do that yet to anyone and it upsets me.
How could we ever match Goldy in Pride if we never laugh at our helpless opponents and leave them to cope with what the fuck just happened?

I still can't believe we survived coffee with Berserker though.

>>3718927
Jesus, they'd tear him apart for being so fucking dense. The "I told you so you fucking idiot." would be unreal.

>>3718952
What's the actual benefit to leaving them alive?

>>3718952
Alberich was a master of witty improv back when we had dice. Never understimate a hero's guile!

>Actually wanting to emulate Gil
Gilgamesh is iconic, but is also a fucking idiot who you should never seek to be like in any way. He's the kind of guy who snatches defeat from the jaws of victory with a 100% success rate. You always crush your enemies when possible.

>>3718960
>benefit of leaving them alive
Well, we'll eventually have access to a very powerful Caster with the ability to both mind control them and read their minds.
Rin for example would have a lot of info on the Mage Association, considering we'll likely be dealing with them after the war, counter measures will need to be developed.
>>3718962
>not wanting to laugh at your enemies after defeating them
In this scenario we've already crushed them, if they make a move against us we give Tsubaki the signal and Rider and Shirou die.

>>3718981
Oh, I had an idea.
We should ask Tsubaki if she can create a bounded field that prevents any magical energy from leaving it, temporarily blocking their link to her.
That ought to spook them out.

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>>3718948
Not to mention that his armor serves as a proclamation to all that witness him that he is a paragon of truth and justice.

>>3718952
>Alberich is the same guy who once followed a pretty singing voice into the street where the only people at all outside would want him dead, so I'm pretty sure his self-preservation instinct for "this could in fact a bad plan" might be a little bit broken regardless.
>Not saying this plan is THAT bad though, considering it actually has actual benefits other than "small chance of not dying" (we apparently really wanted to meet a German loli)
That's it! I was trying to remember exactly which decision it was that put you on the "Alberich is a lolicon" route, because I remembered there being a specific choice you made that confirmed it.
That was the one.

>>3719006
Yeah
Yeah that's fair.

>>3719006
Kind of a reach there.

>>3719013
In what way?
It was a genuinely dumb decision made by Alberich because of Adelheid's singing voice.
He liked it so much he actually acted against his own interests (not being fucking brutally murdered).

>>3719021
Hold on, did Alberich unironically fall for Adelheid upon hearing her voice?

>>3719109
It wasn't quite that simple. It's more that, that decision demonstrated that Alberich had the potential to fall for Adelheid, and then her in-person charisma worked on him.
>>3719013
The word route is important. Stopping Saber doesn't put Shirou on the Rin Route because it proves that he's in love with her right then and there; it just pushes events in that direction. Same kind of situation here.

>>3719109
Charisma: A is one hell of a drug. Adelheid defined Aberich's entire sexuality just by singing.

>>3719145
Kinda seems like cherrypicking a small choice and making it more significant than it really is. How about our dedication to Circe and our constant support of Ayaka?

>>3719173
>cherrypicking a small choice
>walking into certain death because "pretty noise" and surviving because you got along incredibly well with them is a "small choice".

Of everyone he's ever met, Alberich has had the most meaningful conversations with Adelheid.
She also has Charisma: A.

Alberich is also in love with Circe. Obviously.
Our constant support of Ayaka doesn't mean much in the long run compared to our servants.
Circe and Adelheid literally enabled him to feel emotions.

>>3719209
It's going to be neat to see how Alberich and his ex-servants interact now that he doesn't have to fear an instant and brutal death if he displeases either of them too much.

>>3719249
>he doesn't have to fear an instant and brutal death if he displeases either of them too much.
He would still have to worry about getting brutalized by Adelheid or polymorphed by Circe.

>>3719269
Not after we eat Seibah, Lancer, Archer, Berserker, Neimand, Shirou, Medusa, and Sakura

>>3719173
>our dedication to Circe
...has also steered Alberich's preferences in that direction, yes. Like I said above, things could've gone differently if you'd summoned a Servant with a different body-type.
Ayaka hasn't really made as much of an impact on Alberich as either Circe or Adelheid did. There's something there, but it's definitely not on the same level.

As for cherrypicking a small choice and making it important, I'm not sure what you mean. The decision to venture out of the garden was one event that lead to a succession of further events. It demonstrated that Alberich had been affected enough by his first sight of Adelheid to want to follow her voice, even when he knew it would be dangerous to do so; and it led to a conversation that made a profound impact on him.

>>3719297
*led to a succession.
Goddamn habitual typing.

>>3719249
It ought to be something, that's for sure.
I doubt Circe was expecting it to be this quick when she said "you could even become a hero".
There's some sort of parallel with Ayaka feeling inferior to the German Loli that you could probably make, which is fun.
>>3719269
I mean, it wouldn't be an instant death and they would actually have to try, which could result in them actually losing.
>>3719282
>Shirou, Medusa and Sakura
Anon you stop that.
Sword Autist is far more useful as a projection wand. Medusa is a maybe, but she could be useful in the right situation and the more servants Lily takes in the closer she becomes to going full Cup.
Sakura doesn't deserve this (and is far more useful as a mana battery for drawing mana for our masterless servants out of)

>>3719302
This discussion reminds me, why is Volksgemeinschaft a C-Rank NP? It's versatility and power would imply a B or (pushing here) A rank to me.

>>3718797
The only guy who knew it died before he could train anybody. The Einzberns panicked, make Acht, gave him all their knowledge and told him to recreate it. His only success was Justizia, who was crammed into the Grail after they finished it.
or so wiki says

>>3719249
Honestly I'm more interested in how they'll interact when they aren't involved in a magical deathmatch.

>>3719361
>immortal
>die
I... I see.

>>3719356
Rank is decided by the potency of the Mystery and the pure destructive force which is why Gae Bolg is rated at a maximum of B++ (curse, thrust, throw). Volksgemeinschaft can be summed up as "be strong and fast, make big booms", so it's ranked at C. Although in that case it should be something like E~B?

>>3719369
Magus Autism knows no bounds anon.

>>3719368
They seemed to get along somewhat when they had a common interest.
Calling modern magi fucking losers.

>>3719369
maybe he was killed by alaya

>>3719390
Or maybe the whole "immortality" thing is actually bullshit.

>>3719382
They also were fairly civil when discussing architecture and philosophy

>>3719396
Maybe it just makes the soul immortal? Anyone not a spiritual entity would still have a lot of trouble if their body died.
Or they had a power trip and pissed off someone really powerful like Alaya, Gaia, etc who killed them or another magi family wanted to mess with them and he's not really died but is just lost, imprisoned, etc.
There are a lot of ways that don't assume that the Einzberns don't know what their own magic does.

>>3719422
Mahoyo says Alaya sends a red shadow after people who get magic because it's a transgression of humanity's limits. Aoko was attacked as well.
So that explains it.

>>3719422
I mean, let's not pretend they might not just be lying to everyone about it.

Anyway
After seeing how the doublecross superbackstab goes.
Should we actually initiate the Train Plan?

My reasons for wanting to keep the Emiyas alive are half because mind controlling them would be great but I do want a cool confrontation with Shirou rather than him getting instantly destroyed with a backstab.

Failed fake modern hero vs true modem hero, you know?

>>3719461
If only we actually had a way to mind control them. We've still done absolutely nothing to find Circe or Adelheid.

>>3719469
Honestly we should get to working on that.
Like.
As soon as possible.
They might need our help, and without them we can't plan as effectively, relying on maybes and what-ifs.
No idea why Circe wouldn't reach out to us.
Hmm.

>>3719461
>Should we actually initiate the Train Plan?
Too unsustainable. I've been saying this far too many times, but it's better to find hedge-mages in Tokyo and make batteries out of them. Jean said in thread 1 that there were 16 families within his jurisdiction alone.

>>3719496
I mean as a way to actually empower us or Tsubaki instead of just sustaining her.

>>3719496
I read that as hedge mazes and thought you were suggesting that we should create bounded fields to drain energy from popular hedge mazes.

>>3719533
Fucking genius.

>>3719510
I'm... still ambivalent about that. It would be a lot more obvious than killing a Servant or even a powerful human like Shirou.

>>3719356
Two reasons: first, it uses mundane weaponry. Adelheid's nature as a Servant gives it some mystery, but even so it's rather low-ranked. If she had to fight an enemy with very high mystery, like Herakles, she'd be in trouble.
Second, because of it's massive drawback of utterly destroying the user's original ego. The NP overwrites the identity of the heroic spirit with its own identity.

>>3719533
This, however, is genius. we could unironically have tsubaki set up a bounded field to leech small amounts of magical energy from people as they go through a hedge maze and harvest every so often

>>3719546
Sure but fuck it, what are they gonna do? Attack Caster's base with a Saber as it's guard?

Just realised
This is OOC knowledge, but Shirou represents a way out of the worst case scenario. Should any of our allies be contracted to an enemy Master. Then there's a single Noble Phantasm that will allow us to turn things around.
Rule Breaker.

>>3719549
The latter element I suppose nerfed it, but it's a shame it's mundanity renders it so... impotent against higher heroic spirits.

>>3719565
We can't get it unless we brainwash Shirou because it's a property of UBW, making it a long shot.

>>3719553
It actually works well because people will be stuck in the maze for long enough to get a decent amount of energy but there's still enough circulation of new people that they wouldn't observe any long term issues from energy drain. If we set up at a good one, we could be able to skim off the top of hundreds of people with little to no chance of detection.

>>3719582
Sure, but it's still a reminder of just how useful the stupid asshole can be.
He's got an unbelievable amount of utility.

>>3719586
>little to no chance of detection
Well, magi can detect it.
The good news is that one of the two people who would have to investigate it is on our side. The bad news is that the other one is Antaglio.

Energy gathering plans
>kidnap people and turn them into batteries
>mass sacrifice for huge amounts of energy
>hedge mazes in tokyo
One of these plans is not like the other

>>3719605
Mass sacrifice is so wasteful and inefficient desu. Both hedge-mazes and human batteries are reliable and renewable!

>>3719605
Yeah, only one of them will actually empower you.

>>3719609
Hedge Mazes it is!

>>3719609
Hedge Mazes: A powersource to surpass the third sorcery.

>>3719605
Don't forget turning Sakura into a magical object

>>3719624
What about turning Sakura into a hedge maze? That'd be the ultimate battery.

>>3719629
>Terrifying red and black worm hedge maze that leaks absurd amounts of magical energy
Isn't there a dead apostle like this? The living forest? Nightmare fuel yo.

>>3719629
How do you like that Shirou?! I TURNED YOUR WIFE INTO A MAZE YOU IDIOT!

Honestly, how many will die when we bring the age of Gods back?
Around 6 or 7 billion or so people, I would wager. Can't imagine the Gods wouldn't take the opportunity not to cut the world population below a billion.
What's a few thousand unremarkable people to that?
The Emiyas are exceptional. To sacrifice such magical oddities for their energy is just too wasteful when we could accomplish so much more by utilising their abilities to our advantage.
Even if they might originally oppose us, it's not like that will remain a problem with the correct use of mental manipulation. Circe must be found as soon as possible.

>>3719633
The Forest of Einnashe, named after the DAA it used to be.
Odds are it was cleaned up by Counter Guardians, luckily.

>>3719638
Additionally, a catastrophic train crash/tunnel collapse killing like 800 people in Japan wouldn't be picked up on by most magi, who are retards.
Zelretch's apprentice dying however would be quite the topic of conversation.

The only ones we have to fear about killing innocents are the organizers. If we lock down the Emiyas.

If we make the mass sacrifice look like a tunnel collapse after we're done, nobody could investigate it easily either.

>>3719680
And if we disguise the tunnel collapse with a hedge maze...

>>3719680
>a catastrophic train crash/tunnel collapse killing like 800 people in Japan wouldn't be picked up on by most magi, who are retards
Antaglio or someone else could pick up traces of our magical energy and then they'd be forced to investigate.
While they can't harm us directly it would still reveal our existence to the moonlit world before we're ready for a serious campaign.
>Zelretch's apprentice dying however would be quite the topic of conversation.
More directly dangerous.

>>3719696
Perfect!
It'll form a perfect defensive perimeter!
They'll never even realise hundreds of people were killed without remorse!

I can't believe a few threads ago I was upset Tsubaki had taken to eating people to survive and now here I am planning a mass killing.

>>3719711
I mean, you'd think so, but the majority of magi don't care about Japan at all.
Nobody cared about the Fuyuki fire.

>>3719713
>I can't believe a few threads ago I was upset Tsubaki had taken to eating people to survive and now here I am planning a mass killing.
All because ye ain't got the guts ta murder a man, his sister-law, and his servant while making his wife and children into batteries. For shame man.

>>3719722
(((Einzbern))) influence at work.

>>3719713
I love how this war is not only going to have over three times the casualties of the Fuyuki fire but also much more insidious. Rather than a giant swathe of destruction over 1700 people are going to mysteriously disappear without a trace in the span of a week. Neutral evil is one hell of a drug.

>>3719729
It's a waste to kill them though.
I made my point perfectly clear.
Why would you melt down priceless golden artifacts if you were surronded by gold nuggets?

>>3719729
I'm sorry to say, the man's got a point the emiyas still have a part to play in this story. Also, I don't really want to keep looking at everything from a risk management perspective. That is playing to lose and real boring.

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>>3719759
>He doesn't trust sweets to keep the quest compelling even as we OPTIMIZE it
>He feels compelled to force plot rather than allow it to be generated naturally

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>>3719762
>he wants to eliminate every single potential threat immediately because he's afraid of everyone for some reason

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>>3719762
>not wanting to be a supervillain
>not wanting to break your enemies and take all they are from them
>not erasing all traces of your existence with strategically placed hedge mazes

>>3718948
Not sure if I asked this in the thread it was first posted to, but is this an edit or original art? It really looks excellent.

>>3719774
When you plan to dominate the moonlit and eventually mundane worlds, you damn well better be a paranoid fuck. Also, we have the convenience of becoming directly empowered (with sufficient preparation) when killing powerful magical entities.

>>3719780
I have absolutely no idea, not the original poster of it. Sorry Sweets.

>>3719780
I believe it was an edit.
We haven't had many edits recently.

>>3719785
>We haven't had many edits recently.
A saddening fact. Hope I haven't lost the interest of the anons who were making them.

>>3719781
>being paranoid about those inferior to you
Wary? Perhaps.
Paranoid? Please.
You're going about this in such a boring way.

>>3719785
chaotic evilceditanon is here to fix this situation

>>3719796
What have I done?

>>3719794
I haven't had any inspiration for shitty meme edits as of late.

>>3719795
Part of the beauty of the Nasuverse is that even if you're an immensely powerful god-king there's bound to be an autist hiding under a rock who'll fuck up even your most carefully laid plans. Running around like an immensely prideful headless chicken will do you no good at all.

>>3719798
Well, you touched yourself at night

>>3719781
We also have the convenience of being empowered by killing the mundane, thanks to our sister.
There's no reason to slaughter those you can control.
>>3719802
You say that but you forget how often those autists dead end.

>>3719805
I maintain that the cost-benefit of slaughtering the masses is in the red at this point. Killing servants and the Emiyas is infinitely more time-efficient, less likely to be interfered with by a meddling magus or sorcerer, and yields nice little conceptual goodies. Mass murder is fit for a God Emperor, not a fledgling Hero.

>>3719802
Yeah but all those autists had savestates and plot contrivences to carry them to victory. In this situation every Emiya is just one misstep away from a permanent dead end.

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>>3719805
Also, I forgot to add the obvious point. There's no dead ends if you DONT FUCKING KILL THEM

>>3719811
I can't believe you're being so foolish as to turn down Train Plan just because you want to kill the Emiyas.
Why, even?
If they are telling the truth (they are) then we're just murdering people for the sake of it, when we could gain any positives from killing them from murdering lots of unimportant people.

>>3719831
>no dead ends if you don't kill them
Read the VN lmao.

>>3719811
All this talk about human sacrifice has made me realize how efficient the Akeldama was at being a human suffering powered generator. It only took the lives of 1046 humans but through clever manipulation of the artificial world it was able to bait and exploit heroic spirits to create three powerful conceptual entities with the relatively tiny sacrifice of a mere 1046 humans.

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>>3719831
>There's no dead ends if you DONT FUCKING KILL THEM

>>3719841
Judas is pretty tricky, would you believe it?

>>3719854
You think he might have done something like this before?

>>3719857
It's doubtful. The Grail could only summon Good-aligned heroes before Manchild got into it and there are very few problems solved by summoning Judas that couldn't be dealt with by someone else.

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>>3719841
Judas was a great dad if you think about it

>>3719857
I imagine he might have some experience in the field.

Honestly, I do feel like it would be a waste if Shirou and Saber didn't meet again. All that potential narrative payoff dropped for an easy kill on a guy who manages to die against just about anything even with passive regeneration.

>>3719860
It was more in reference to the mission given to Judas Iscariot in the gnostic gospel as confirmed by Judas himself a few threads ago.

>>3719875
Hmm, he might've understood some principles of hero-making.

Oh no.
I've been taken by the sudden urge to want to kill Saber halfway through her meeting Shirou again.

Altering seems unlikely any time soon because we've done no training on our training day

>>3719903
Good anon... good...

>>3719903
We always have 60 years to try again. If we get the Third we can work with Circe to recreate the Grail as a mystic code and call down heroes to farm.

>>3719918
I still don't really want to kill Shirou.
He's a good boy.
He's just trying to live a quiet life.