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>>3637465

A crash and roar erupts from your right, and you turn in time to see Eloise carve an ectoplasmic gash in the hideous, angular Geist that was surging towards you and your team. It's been five, maybe ten minutes of flat-out running, and even in that short span of time you've realized the gap in effectiveness between the living and the dead against Almath's vengeful inhabitants. After the second time Meg cracks her fist across an incoming Geist and it promptly explodes, it occurs to you that even Rath's Tormentis-empowered attacks pale in comparison to what Gina and her team can do to beings like themselves.

And then suddenly, there it is.

That presence that feels like your world imploding, the voice that sounds like all the hatred in the world filtered through a seething, vengeful throat.

YOU'VE COME SO FAR

AND SO HAS MY FAVORED DAUGHTER

Mother's inimitable voice echoes in your mind as you race headlong through the crooked streets and narrow alleys that lead, inevitably, to the gleaming alabaster spire that towers over the city.

THIS IS A JOURNEY YOU HAVE BOTH TAKEN TOGETHER

ONE THAT HAS SPANNED YOUR LIVES

You share a look with Gina, and the fleeting glance tells you that both you and she sense that something’s different about the Hexane Crucible's embittered winner. There's something...diminished, about her. Despite Mother's fire and hope, beyond her self-assured speech...she's weakened, beyond anything you've seen.

BUT MINE

MINE HAS SPANNED EONS, DEFIANT

It's a thing that goes further than mere exhaustion. You feel as if, in the efforts of stopping you, that's she's brought herself to the very brink.

MY WAIT IS AT AN END

MY AWAKENING IS AT HAND

AND I SHALL FINALLY GET WHAT I SO RIGHTLY DESERVE

It is from that edge, that precipice of existence that she gloats at you now.

Here, at the end of an era.

>>"How many times have you gone out of your way to stop us, Mother? How many times have you completely and utterly failed…and what makes you think this time is going to be any different?”

>>"You have to know how this is going to end for you, Ozmas. What good do you think getting your body back is going to do you?"

>>Ignore Mother. You’re almost to the spire, and you don’t have time for her when so much is at stake.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL

(Gentlemen, it’s good to be back. A few items of note; the majority of what little free time I had this past week was spent play testing what is to come and it allowed me to streamline some things. As such, at the risk of going a little into some mild interface spoilers, you will not only have control over Shu and her living allies but also over individual squads of Dream Daughters as well, the leaders of which will have an impact on their performance. Granting control over the general actions of the squads themselves instead of their individual members proved to prevent both analysis paralysis and general interface clutter, so I’ll be using that format going forward.)

(Additionally, work and life kept me from updating nearly as much as I could, so I’ll be filtering in Relic and other items as the thread continues. However, your current status is cued from when you all chose your Loadout and is posted below, so let me know if there are any adjustments you’d like to make before you proceed. If there are any questions then please let me know, and I hope you all had a good weekend.)


HP: 650% (+35%, Matrons Stoicism, Ignition Gauntlets, Whistle: CUNT TER RHO)
BIO: 690% (+60%, 19 Rook-Platelings, Recursive [You/Rath/Julia/November: Armored] 6 Quad Knighted-Grapplings, 2 Stealthed Jacklings, 2 Stealthed Scarlet Drones, 3 Bishops [Shu, Rath, Julia], 4 Bane-Nomlings, 36/36)
CONTENDER: 2 x B.33 Loaded, Sword Form.
RAVENOUS MAW: Primed.
HUNDRED-HANDED: None.
ACT: 3/3

RATH HP: 860% (70%, Sui Tormentis, Gutgrab Daggers, 2400% ATK+, 2400% SPD+, 2400% DEF+)
JULIA HP: 880% (20%, Hydras Heart, Manus Caelorum, Cursas Alas, 20 Daggers, BLOODY RIPPER x 2)
NOVEMBER HP: 970% (Tier 1 Core)
CLONES: 45 Remaining, all with Radiant Boils in hand.

Threat: Held at bay.

(Voting shall remain open for the next two hours, Gentlemen.)

>>3637468
>>Ignore Mother. You’re almost to the spire, and you don’t have time for her when so much is at stake.
eh, fuck mother. shes looking for us to throw Bantz back at her, so the best way to make this sting is to just ignore her.

>>3637472
wonderful to be back BHOP, always nice to see this start back up again, and hope this week it less heavy on your shoulders and time aswell.

as for any adjustments, i think that all looks good, we're about as ready as we can be, its just a matter of what we will truly end up facing.

>>3637472
Good to have you back i hope the last week hasnt been to exhausting

>>3637468
>>Ignore Mother. You’re almost to the spire, and you don’t have time for her when so much is at stake.

Write-in
>>Flip her the bird in your mind and be on your way getting you distracted seems to be the only thing she can do right now so lets not give her the pleasure


OP you mentioned that they did not expect this amount of resistance......... I do wonder though how much power had she pump into isabelle to keep her running down here. A curious thing consequences to ones actions

>>3637468
>>Ignore Mother. You’re almost to the spire, and you don’t have time for her when so much is at stake.
Taunt after we ruin her plans. It's not worth the focus we'd spend talking to her, right now. And it will be so much sweeter to speak with her after her last grasp at relevance has been for nought.

>>3637472
Welcome back, BHOP. I hope this week is less hectic for you.

Wait, squads? But we only have four Dream Daughters, that should be just one squad. Unless...we're going to get backup throughout the fight, aren't we? We've been here long enough that the Dream Daughters the party has with within them are going to manifest, too. Nice.

>>3637483
>Wait, squads? But we only have four Dream Daughters, that should be just one squad. Unless...we're going to get backup throughout the fight, aren't we? We've been here long enough that the Dream Daughters the party has with within them are going to manifest, too. Nice.
to be fair we did kinda expect that and it does make sense. it also makes understandable sense we will only be able to command them as squads, that would be...upwards of 23 daughters potentially, we would be in control of, and at that point it may aswell be a bloody war simulator, which i dont think this system was designed to be smoothly. would probably need 5 hour turns just to read through all of that haha.

>>3637468
>"You have to know how this is going to end for you, Ozmas. What good do you think getting your body back is going to do you?"
Get her to monologue while we make our way.

>>3637493
Oh, yeah, I was expecting it too. Just happy to have (tacit) confirmation. And agreed, it would get way too busy in here. Especially when you consider that there are going to be seven B'Ni clones, and forty-five Amara clones, and Shu's six Knighted-Grapplings and whatever other constructs get deployed. Definitely a good thing to be doing this by squad.

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>>3637502
yeah, thankfully we usually use the clones and Swarmlings in squads already, but Quad Knighted Grapplings are at least human sized if not a bit bigger, thats gotta actually be pretty fucking terrifying. probably have enough acid in each one to make a body cease to exist, stored in a droll probably a foot in diameter at least.

>>3637516
Don't forget that we've got Subversive applied to all our swarm, too. So they're not just terrifying giant bee monsters, they're terrifying giant bee monsters that are invisible. Well, okay, they're not that invisible, you can probably make out where they are when you're close up, but it will still make things much more disorienting.

Actually, wait, let me just make sure BHOP knows we wanted the whole swarm to be invisible, I'm only seeing it on two of our swarmling types.
>>3637472
We had the Subversive trait applied to everything, not just the Jacklings and Scarlet Drones. Just to make things that little bit harder for B'Ni. Stealth on all the non-ethereal Daughters, stealth on our bees, everything is hard to make out where it's supposed to be.

>>3637522
(Excellent, I'll make the change.)

>>3637522
you know...we should've Rec'd the QKGs.
that would've been 200 Recursive swarmlings each at max. imagine going through all the effort it takes to kill one of those, only for upwards of 200 tiny little shitheads to swarm you.

>>3637525
We can still make adjustments. Want to throw that in?

>>3637523
>>3637528
yeah sure, lets make death pinatas. the ultimate surprise present for Isabelle if she kills one. hell fuck at those numbers id imagine they are actually a threat, not just an annoyance.

>>3637531
Alright, let's add that in, then.
>>3637472
We'd like to make the Grapplings Recursive as well as Subversive, please. Make them punchy doom-pinatas.

Speaking of swarming B'Ni with ridiculous amounts of lesser hazards until it just becomes utterly ridiculous: Gina has unlimited Bio right now thanks to acting as a Dream Daughter. Because of Crimson Cord, this means that Shu has unlimited Bio right now. Hundred-Handed get a damage bonus of 0.25% per arm spawned. Not much, but when you consider that there's no limit to the number of arms Shu can spawn per turn so long as she has sufficient Bio and she has as much Bio as she needs...

I think what we should do is get one of the Banelings into the crypt and then spawn enough branching arms to completely fill the space. It will block off entrance so she can't send one body to sneak past and get to the Corpse while we're occupied. Then, Shu can spawn some more arms on the Grapplings and give them like a +5000% damage bonus (I don't know how big the crypt is, I'll have to do the math after we see it) and go to town.

>>3637540
(Consider the adjustments done, Gentlemen.)

>>3637540
well, so long as we are in physical contact with her. it also might still have a limit, as Ginas reserves still have a max technically, it just doesn't run out, but that still might put a maximum we can shotgun out in one burst. it wont have the threat of us running dry and keeling over, but still might not be an infinite amount to instantly call on.

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>>3637468

Your answer to Mother takes the form of stony silence.

A WORDLESS REPLY

VERY WELL

A reverberating sort of laughter echoes in your ears, drowning out the hum of your invisible swarm and your own urgent footfalls upon Almath’s dusty streets.

WE SHALL SHARE WORDS WHEN MY BODY IS REBORN ANEW, THEN

I HAVE SO MANY WORDS FOR YOU AND YOUR LITTLE FAMILY, DEFIANT

You can feel her smile as her presence recedes back into the void, a Cheshire grin that’s burned into your mind’s eye as she speaks one final time as you round a sharp corner, bringing the path to the alabaster spire into full view.

A LEXICON’S WORTH

Your jaw clenches when the open street before you floods with a raging, undulating tide of Hexane ghosts, and November’s gauntlets rack back, revealing her formidable armament before the crowd before you is assaulted from all sides in a flurry of movement. An explosive row of arcing teeth erupt from the ground, the canines spearing the helpless geists in mid-air, the grinding pillars of molars curving to crush others to ectoplasmic pulp. An errant geist makes it through the barrier only to be tackled mid-charge by a muscular Spartan, the woman’s powerful frame keeping the writhing remnant in a vicious head-lock that transforms into a brutal guillotine when her arms become lined with teeth.

Johanna shoots you a satisfied grin before a second wave of azure ghosts pour over her barrier, only to be subsumed within the twisting, spiraling ground the instant their feet meet the path. The ground draws in their limbs with terrible force, and you watch as Uzu steps out from a nearby alley, hand outstretched as she watches her spirals tear the wave to pieces as they’re ground into the pavement before disappearing completely. A trio of winged ghosts arc over the crowd, surging towards you before they’re snatched from the air, one by one decapitated with blinding speed as they’re drawn towards the ravenous maw of the slender blonde that leaps from the shadows. She turns, ad you find yourself face-to-face with Holly’s bright, radiant smile.

“Hey there, Shu!” She says with the same carefree tone as if you’d run into each other on the street…which you have, in a way. You’re about to reply when a fourth geist flies over the home to your left, catching you off guard. Holly’s reaction is immediate and decisive, throwing her body in front of yours before any of you can react with her arms spread wide. You watch in awe as the streets around you reach out, forming a quartet of yawning mouths that latch on to the geist simultaneously, tearing it apart in a shower of azure.

“Holly…are you a Neuromancer?” You breathe, the attack coming to a welcome end as Holly turns to you, uncertainty obvious as her features.

“Uh…no? I…I got nothing, sorry.” She replies, just as confused as you are until Gina’s eyes light up beside you.

(Continued)

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>>3637649

Empathy…empathy, that’s it!” She cries, her mid aflutter with theories and ideas. “The city responds to thoughts and ideas! What we’re seeing, it’s all based on the memories of the Hexane, but strong desires can warp it, since the geists, the city, and the Dream Daughters are all made of the same stuff, in a way! The city’s been a constant for countless years, but now that the Hexane are going nuts over B’ni and Mother, things are getting…malleable, to say the least.”

“So why aren’t they still following B’ni, then?! She’s pissed to all hell, so why do these things have such a murder-boner for Shu?!” Rath roars in frustration, and the answer comes to you and Gina both in an instant of dawning realization.

“They’re tracking anger and hatred, they’ve been drawn to it…and now they can’t follow Isabelle anymore.” You reply, a cold, hard pit growing in your stomach as you share a knowing glace with the brunette at your side.

“B’ni…she’s just entered the citadel.” Gina explains, her pace quickening in time with yours as the barrier recedes, allowing you a clear shot to the looming spire. “The tower, it’s different than the rest of the city. It’s blocking empathic material and beings…nothing in, nothing out but the living. I can’t sense Isabelle, so she’s at the threshold and has started to climb.”

“Peace of mind, reserved for the elite.” Comes November’s crackling huff. “Good to know some things are a depressingly universal constant regardless of species.”

“We need to get moving. Regardless of what happens up there, we’ll keep the geists occupied down here for your return.” Gina announces, looking between the three newcomers as both Holly and Uzu give GG a nod, while Johanna just folds her muscular arms meditatively, eyes closed. Kosi just thrusts her hands in her pockets, her frame utterly relaxed as Meg and Eloise keep their heads on a swivel, intent on keeping the coast clear for your imminent climb.

It’s down to you, Rath, November, and a small army of Amaras and a full suite of Swarmlings to ascend the pale white spire…less than ideal, but it’s what you planned to tackle Isabelle with when you entered.

You just hope it’ll be enough.

>>CHOOSE SQUAD MEMBERS AND LEADERS (4 MEMBER MAXIMUM PER SQUAD)

>>Available Dream Daughters: Gina, Meg, Eloise, Bella, Holly, Uzu, Johanna

>>Make any final adjustments before proceeding up the spire (Final Chance)

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL

(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open for the next one and a half hours.)

>>3637653
dang, expected something like this but still a shame that the tower blocks them from entering.

>Team 1 Leader; Gina
>Meg, Holly, Bella, Amara Clone


>Team 2 Leader; Uzu
> Johanna, Eloise, Amara Clone

tried to make the teams even in what they could accomplish. Gina and Uzu are both in a way terrain controllers, and i trust Gina as leader. Uzu is iffy in that role, but she still has the most experience with it and i have a feeling she is looking to make u for past mistakes. Meg and Johanna are both overall heavy hitters at close range, and Holly and Eloise are similar, but both more tool oriented than outright strength oriented. i gave Ginas team Bella as overall her team had much less overall ability level than Uzus, so it helps even things out, as Uzu and Johanna probably have alot more tools to play around with than Gina or Meg, so Bella helps add more options to a team with less. Amara Clones for better communication, just in case.

>Final Adjustments?
i think we're good, nothing i can think of just yet at least.

>>3637653
>>3637677
wait, BHOP you forgot Kosi and so did i.
quick edit;

>Team 1 Leader; Gina
>Meg, Holly, Kosi, Amara Clone


>Team 2 Leader; Uzu
> Johanna, Eloise, Bella, Amara Clone

with that, Kosi is a powerhouse that can aid the first team, while Bella is a bit lower level but still has some similarities to Kosi, so can aid Team Two in her stead.

>>3637681
(Ah, so I did; excellent catch.)

>>3637653

>>Available Dream Daughters: Gina, Meg, Eloise, Bella, Holly, Uzu, Johanna (Curious no Sam..... did she not want to come or wait for a better opportunity)

Squad Leaders:
Gina: she has some experience and is capable of coordinating daughters through her Neuromancy

Eloise: Cool headed and probably has the capability and capacity to lead

Squads:
Eloise, Holly, Uzu

Johanna, Gina, Meg, Kosi

>>Make any final adjustments before proceeding up the spire (Final Chance)
I dont have any final adjustments i think everyone else hammered out the details very well

>>3637688
Eloise would honestly be a terrible leader. a cool head does not translate to a good leader, you need much much more than that, and she has basically no people skills or experience even having friends. Uzu may of had issues being a leader before, but she still HAD at least some people skills and experience being a leader, and on top of her probably more than wanting to make up for that, there is still a reason people followed her, and this is a much different situation than running a monastary full of hundreds of daughters.

also you forgot Bella, and i feel your team doesn't properly take into account who is similar to eachother and overall power level.

>>3637700
You are correct i forgot to mention Bella...... and the Eloise thing is probably true as well........... She could probably make a good leader with time and a bit of training/experience but you are correct no chance to do it now on the Fly. Uzu probably is our bst bet with any kind of experience, It just does not sit right with me all that much after her depiction how she handeled the monestary. I just see it vividly in my mind how one bad thing happens, purely by chance and she just freezes up because of some sort of guilt over letting someone else get hurt.

The powerlevel is what i wanted to mix up a bit. AS to not put all the really powerful daughters into one group but still covering our bases.
I can see a poin that maybe it could disrupt party cohesion by having the stronger daughters look out a bit for the weaker daughters but it is my belive that mixing the squads up a bit

On one hand your setup bring together two powerful Melee fighters with a massive Acid AOE and a powerful expressionist flesh artisan.

On the other hand we have Gina with some capabilities in crowd control and terraforming but nothing to exceptional, together with two moderatly powerful melee fighters and a healer that can probably bring in some constructs as far as i understand Kosis Powerset,

That is relatively unbalanced in their overall powerlevel, as Verurteilung of Gina is probably gonna be next to useless and against the Geister which leaves her with the halo and the terrarforming portion of her Skillset which is not all that much against the enemy htey face here. I just want to see them all safe and they can do that best if we split them up a bit so everyone can engage roughly equal threats(on the whole)

>>3637753
i think you misunderstood what i thought, i was saying you were putting too many powerful folks on the same team and not spreading them out enough.

theres two factors to keep in mind here; Role Similarities and Power Levels.

Role Similarities;
>Gina and Uzu
both focus heavily on directly changing the terrain around them as their main focal point. both have other abilities sure, but that is their main focal point for sure.

>Meg and Johanna
Both focus heavily on fisticuffs backed up by other means, but unarmed fist based brutality is still boths main focal point.

>Holly and Eloise;
Both are more 'traditional' melee fighters, in that they use a 'tool' to dish out their close quarters melee without having to rely directly on their fists. Eloises speed and Hollys tongues range also both gives them different methods of quickly reacting to far off things.

>Kosi and Bella
both focus heavily on area control, but not outright altering their environment per say, so much as throwing something onto the environment, compared to the Transformers outright changing the environment.

now Power Levels;
>High power Levels
Johanna, Uzu, Kosi.
Uzu may of flaked but she was clearly of high level ,and i dont even need to argue the other two.

>Lower Power Levels
Gina, Bella, Meg, Eloise, Holly
not to say any of them are bad, just compared to the others they are outmatched on how far their kit has evolved, and otherwise were shown to have much more limited options and/or we know had much more limited growth. Gina and maybe Meg might be more Medium level, but arguably if enough to get their own tier.

hence with Gina and Uzu both conveniently being the best leaders, we can then split them up based off not putting two similar people together and trying to otherwise even out power level

So Holly and Eloise on differing teams, Johanna and Meg on differing teams, and Kosi and Bella on differing teams. my own plan then is how i think best to even out the power levels, though with knowing its never going to be perfect.

>>3637785
alright yes i see what you mean. I was looking at it more broadly in terms of Melee fighter, AOE, CC, Healer/general Support. And based upon that i tried to find a match that would be acceptable.

It seems to me like you put a lot more time and thought into your set up than i did. I think i can support your proposal on those lines

>>3637653
Changing my vote from >>3637688
to supprting >>3637681

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>>3637653

>>Team 1: Gina (Leader), Meg, Holly, Kosi, Amara Clone

>>Team 2: Uzu (Leader), Johanna, Eloise, Bella, Amara Clone

Gina kisses you on the cheek, and you’re about to return the gesture when the ground carries you away from her at incredible speed as it pulses with amethyst light, bringing you and your team to the tower’s yawning entrance in the span of a few seconds. Your eyes meet hers as they fade into the growing distance, and you know.

What happens here changes everything.

You, Rath, Julia, and November enter the silent spire with the horde of Amaras, and ascend the spiral of stairs with tremendous speed, the sound of calcite skates carving into pale stone echoing down from on high. After what feels like an eternity you arrive at the summit, rounding the corner of a colossal doorframe that reveals…

The room is enormous, taking the form of a massive dodecahedron with slender windows that look out on the ruined city of Almath, far below. The space shimmers with a thin fog of neuromantic particles thrown up by your former friend, and through the haze you see her and her six duplicates, all sporting identical dresses of jet-black fabric. She and her clones are halfway into the room, carried along on skates of rippling flesh and shining bone, the high-speed result of a potent hybridization. They pay you no mind as they race to B’ni’s goal, suspended before the six thrones that lay empty at the opposite side of the grand hall…and it’s a thing to behold.

Mother’s body is a regal thing, draped in black-gold finery, her gaunt Hexane features standing in sharp relief, even at this considerable distance. You can feel it, too…this terrible, catastrophic power, locked in a slender frame, hovering a few inches above the ground and emanating its world-ending potential throughout this alabaster tomb.

The power that won a Crucible, once upon a time.

The power that can win it again.

There’s one shot at this, one chance to ensure that Mother’s plan dies on the vine.

It’s time you take control.

HP: 650% (+35%, Matrons Stoicism, Ignition Gauntlets, Whistle: CUNT TER RHO)
BIO: 690% (+60%, 19 Sub. Rook-Platelings, Sub/Rec.[You/Rath/Julia/November: Armored], 6 Sub. Quad Knighted-Grapplings, 2 Sub. Jacklings, 2 Sub. Scarlet Drones, 3 Sub. Bishops [Shu, Rath, Julia], 4 Sub/Rec. Bane-Nomlings, 36/36)
CONTENDER: 2 x B.33 Loaded, Sword Form.
RAVENOUS MAW: Primed.
HUNDRED-HANDED: None.
ACT: 3/3

RATH HP: 860% (70%, Sui Tormentis, Gutgrab Daggers, 2400% ATK+, 2400% SPD+, 2400% DEF+)
JULIA HP: 880% (20%, Hydras Heart, Manus Caelorum, Cursas Alas, 20 Daggers, BLOODY RIPPER x 2)
NOVEMBER HP: 970% (Tier 1 Core)
CLONES: 43 Remaining, all with Radiant Boils in hand.

Threat: Seven strong, real body unknown, Relic location unknown, medium distance from you. Racing at high speed towards Mother’s true body, medium distance away from Isabelle’s team. Cloud of neuromantic dust between you and the team.

YOU ARE IN CONTROL

(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open for the next two hours.)

(Good luck.)

>>3637893
oh boy, here we go.

SHU;
>Send the 6 Knightlings to intercept the Isabelles, pushing to get infront of her and spawn Hundred-Hands to both block her path by connecting together and aim to grapple the clones as best they can.
>Have the 4 Nomlings team up to cover the extra Isabelle compared to Grapplings we have.
>Hitch a ride with Rath.
>Once you land, pick two target that seem to be the furthest forward and send a BB at each, then aid your Knights in keeping the arm net up and the Clones back.
>Terraform the ground to drop out from under the Clones, then prepare the Jacklings to strike whichever ones get out first and lock them down, then move in with your Maw and Lionheart.
>As the Clones try and escape the side of the pit, activate Spiral where you can to not trip up your allies, to throw their footing off and back into the pit if you so can.

RATH;
>Pickup Julia and Shu
>see if you cant fling yourself up and above the Clones using a pillar or ceiling beam, and rain down Boils to block the Isabelles advancement.
>use Extra limbs to drop down Shu and Julia infront of the Clones.
>test the waters, toss a few boils at Mothers corpse as you land.
>If they seem to work, Keep bombarding it til you are forced to help face the clones, if they do not, turn and help keep the clones back, as you wait to see the next option.

JULIA;
>Hitch a ride with Rath, use your Cursas to help boost the group along further.
>Once you drop, take a second to pick out the Clone causing the most trouble and rush in to keep it back.

NOVEMBER;
>get your BAR up and spinning, and lay down covering fire on the Clones as Rath and the others get into position.
>Once the others land, take careful aim, shooting for the ones not yet covered to give them a hard time.

AMARA CLONES;
>Have 3 Clones ride along with Shu and the others, Priming their Halos to be prepared to cover for them.
>Have a Clone ride on each Knightling, Halos Primed.
>Have 3 Cover November, Halos Primed.
>Have the rest start making their way to block off the corpse, taking a long arc around the clones, ready to react to keep the clones back as necessary.
>Keep their eyes and halos peeled, try and pick out where the relic is, there has to be a sign, either an arm preoccupied, an Isabelle getting more protection, or some sign it is on that ones body.

>>3637894
My guess is there is no Biomass up here we can Terraform is there?

How big is mothers body? if we can see it it must be very large.

How many Movementzones roughly is this room large?
(If Isabelle didnt make it more than half the distance while we climbed up than it has to be at 30 Zones of Movement unless the Citadel itself worked against her to slow her down.)
Was there Signs of fighting on the way up here?

I would like confirmation on these as far as possible

>>3637956
(There is no biomass here, no.)

(The body is roughly eleven feet tall.)

(There were no signs of fighting. She faced no opposition on the spire, she merely paused to collect herself for a moment before she realized just how close you actually were. Mother could not afford to reach out and warn her, at this point.)

(The room is approximately six movement zones in diameter, in game terms. It's quite tall, also.)

>>3637975
dang, well cuts that down to just the Spiral at best then.

Elven feet talls not too bad. not something id want us to have to lug around but could be much worse.

>>3637975
Alright this helps me visualize the Arena thanks BHOP

One more Question if you permit:
Based on our Experience would a dead body still have the resistances and HEALTH it had in life?
Like a second health bar that can be degraded till the body is destroyed?


>>3637951
If you allow me to take this as a basis for a new plan i would be much obliged


SHU;
>Send the 6 Knightlings to intercept the Isabelles, pushing to get infront of her
>Spawn Hundred-Hands to both block her path by connecting together and aim to grapple the clones as best they can while at the same time flinging yourself forward by spawning hundred handed downwards and back to fling youself forward with the sudden force of expansion and collapse them afterwards you need as much bio as possible in your Grapplings to keep uo the net
>Have the 4 Nomlings team up to cover the extra Isabelle compared to Grapplings we have.
>Have Julia und Rath hitch a ride with you
>Once you land, pick two target that seem to be the furthest forward and send a BB at each clones knee, then aid your Knights in keeping the arm net up and the Clones back.
> the Jacklings strike whichever clone tries to get away first and second, lock them down, then move in with your Maw and Lionheart.
>Load more BBs and shoot more kneecaps out

RATH;
>Pickup Julia and latch onto Shu
>Rain down boils in front of the CLones to block their way and chuck a couple extra at mothers corpse
>use Extra limbs to drop down Julia infront of the Clones while shu lands
>If the boils seem to work, Keep bombarding it til you are forced to help face the clones, if they do not, turn and help keep the clones back, as you wait to see the next option.

JULIA;
>Hitch a ride with Rath, use your Cursas to help boost the group along further.
>Once you drop, take a second to pick out the Clone causing the most trouble and rush in to keep it back.

NOVEMBER;
>get your BAR up and spinning, and lay down covering fire on the Clones as Rath and the others get into position.
>Once the others land, take careful aim, shooting for the ones not yet covered to give them a hard time. Try and go for disable if outright kill is not possible.

AMARA CLONES;
>Have 3 Clones ride along with Shu and the others, Priming their Halos to be prepared to cover for them.
>Have a Clone ride on each Knightling, Halos Primed.
>Have 3 Cover November, Halos Primed.
>Have the rest start making their way to block off the corpse, taking a long arc around the clones, ready to react to keep the clones back as necessary.
>Keep their eyes and halos primed, try and pick out where the relic is, there has to be a sign, either an arm preoccupied, an Isabelle getting more protection, or some sign it is on that ones body.

>>3637985
Could we maybe use Rath and Shus Dualtech to slice of the corpses head and devour it? Should be difficult to transfer a brain if there is nowhere left to transfer it

>>3638036
(Due to the unique circumstances surrounding the preservation of Mother's body, you have no precedent for this situation, I'm afraid.)

(However, given that the body is emanating with power, the safest bet is to assume it still possesses all the powers and resistances Mother had in her prime.)

>>3638036
seems alright, but with a few points.

i was gonna add
>As a last resort, slam down a Spiral to throw off Isabelles footing and keep her from breaking through.
to Shus orders.

otherwise, well, i guess its more a question, but im not sure if Shu bringing everyone forward would work as well? the Hundred-Handed Arm compression is super fast sure, but otherwise hers and their strength isnt that great, but Rath has both an extreme speed and strength boost to both help her use her Strands to pull forward and carry everyone forward. i guess im unsure if the Hands compression alone is enough to outweigh the benefits of having Rath pull everyone forward.

>Could we maybe use Rath and Shus Dualtech to slice of the corpses head and devour it? Should be difficult to transfer a brain if there is nowhere left to transfer it
my thoughts exactly, BUT i wanted to wait and see how the corpse reacts to the boils. the last thing we need is Rath charging it and it turns out to have auto counters and defenses we have to break through first, so i wanna make sure rushing it to cut it up is even possible and not gonna get us fucked. oh, and Raths Strands dont rely on the Swarmlings getting in place first, Shus Hands do.

>>3638052
yeah, so we should certainly test the waters as it was first, so we dont send Rath in to get bitch slapped.

BHOP, could Shus HH Compression or Raths Strands pull us along faster?

>>3638068
(Rath's strands would be the fastest method at current.)

>>3638080
>>3638036
then yeah, id prefer to stick to Rath bringing us forward. Isabelles too fast to take the slower method.

>>3638052
Alright so no Autumn Protocol to the face to instantly wipe the corpse from the face of Almath...... Its a sad day for supercharged plasmabased Weaponry......

>>3638080
Do you still have the Sheet/ link to the sheet that contains our Dualtechs at the ready?

>>3638068
>As a last resort, slam down a Spiral to throw off Isabelles footing and keep her from breaking through.
Doesnt fear to tread need biomass it can distort? There is no Biomass up here we are practicly in an anti-Terraforming zone as far i understand it

>>3638091
Okay i thought that HH would be faster but that is clearly not the case so i am perfectly happy to take Raths travel method if there is a suitable piece of envoirment we can slingshot off of, otherwise we need to provide that ourselves by creating HH pillars from a grappling

>>3638095
i thought it just altered the ground, biomass or not. but i suppose i could be wrong on that.

Dual Techs;
https://pastebin.com/Jhd452yt

>>3638101
true, but id imagine her using a Knight or swarmling as an anchor would still be faster. just how much that wouls slow her down is the issue, but not something we can avoid perhaps.

>>3638095
>>3638108
(The Spiral will still work.)

>>3638135
Does terraforming? Could Shu slam up some quick barriers around the corpse?

>>3638135
Ohhhh.... that changes things.

>>3638174
>>3638108

SHU;
>Send the 6 Knightlings to intercept the Isabelles, pushing to get infront of her
>Spawn Hundred-Hands to both block her path by connecting together and aim to grapple the clones as best they can while at the same time flinging yourself forward by spawning hundred handed downwards and back to fling youself forward with the sudden force of expansion and collapse them afterwards you need as much bio as possible in your Grapplings to keep uo the net
>Have the 4 Nomlings team up to cover the extra Isabelle compared to Grapplings we have.

*>hitch a ride with Rath

>Once you land, pick two target that seem to be the furthest forward and send a BB at each clones knee, then aid your Knights in keeping the arm net up and the Clones back.
> the Jacklings strike whichever clone tries to get away first and second, lock them down, then move in with your Maw and Lionheart.
>Load more BBs and shoot more kneecaps out

*>As a last resort, slam down a Spiral to throw off Isabelles footing and keep her from breaking through.

RATH;
>Pickup Julia and Shu

*>see if you cant fling yourself up and above the Clones using a pillar or ceiling beam, rain down boils in front of the Clones to block their way and chuck a couple extra at mothers corpse

>use Extra limbs to drop down Julia infront of the Clones while shu lands
>If the boils seem to work, Keep bombarding it til you are forced to help face the clones, if they do not, turn and help keep the clones back, as you wait to see the next option.

JULIA;
>Hitch a ride with Rath, use your Cursas to help boost the group along further.
>Once you drop, take a second to pick out the Clone causing the most trouble and rush in to keep it back.

NOVEMBER;
>get your BAR up and spinning, and lay down covering fire on the Clones as Rath and the others get into position.
>Once the others land, take careful aim, shooting for the ones not yet covered to give them a hard time. Try and go for disable if outright kill is not possible.

AMARA CLONES;
>Have 3 Clones ride along with Shu and the others, Priming their Halos to be prepared to cover for them.
>Have a Clone ride on each Knightling, Halos Primed.
>Have 3 Cover November, Halos Primed.

*>Have 7 Clones cast FOL RHO CUNT at the Isabelle clones to slow them down
The Geister can not reach us so we can freely use Skintalker Spells again any other suggestions

>Have the rest start making their way to block off the corpse, taking a long arc around the clones, ready to react to keep the clones back as necessary.
>Keep their eyes and halos primed, try and pick out where the relic is, there has to be a sign, either an arm preoccupied, an Isabelle getting more protection, or some sign it is on that ones body.

>>3638174
Reference this>>3637975
Make of it what you will

>>3638185
>Make of it what you will
Yeah, but if Fear To Tread works despite there being no biomass, I'd expect that terraforming would to.

Anyways, I think this plan is solid, but don't forget to make the Amaras' spells GRA-enhanced. No reason not to.

>>3637893
>>3637951
>>3638196
yeah i can support these additions. hopefully the Primed-Counters do what i want and cancel out Isabelles opening bonuses, but to be fair if they do not we probably couldn't stop them anyways then.

actually, make those GRA RHO CUNTs. GRA is a direct outright boost to the spell, while i think BHOP has said FOL cannot act as an actual boost.

>>3638209
Fear just twirls what is around us is what im thinking, biomass or not. Terraforming actually requires Biomass to bend. think if Tread more like...an Aura ability, but shot into the ground instead of making peoples emotions go wild. or so im guessing.

>>3638209
>>3638174
(To clarify, the Spiral's initial spin will still be effective, but it will cease to spin after its start-up rotation since the ground is not true biomass. Lesser Flesh Artisan powers would normally be ineffective against non-biomass terrain, much like Neuromancy would, but Fear to Tread is incredibly powerful even at its base level.)

>>3638237
I see. Well, that's significantly less useful than we might have hoped for. And B'Ni can probably deal with a temporary spin just fine, with her skills being at level ten and then hybridized. I'd rather not use the spiral, then.

>>3638251
>>3638237
its much less useful than i hoped, BUT this actually can work out. we only want to use it as a last resort to keep Isabelle down, but now its not constantly tripping up our allies either. it still will trip her up is the thing, its still the ground suddenly shifting under her, so its still worth using.

>>3638232
Oh yes i mixed the two up thank you for the catch .... Disrupting concentration would do us no good against her

>>3638237
So i thought along the right lines that this place is not made of true Biomass and thus can not be affected by Terraforming...... i hate i was right

>>3637893

Casting my Vote with this:

SHU;
>Send the 6 Knightlings to intercept the Isabelles, pushing to get infront of her
>Spawn Hundred-Hands to both block her path by connecting together and aim to grapple the clones as best they can while at the same time flinging yourself forward by spawning hundred handed downwards and back to fling youself forward with the sudden force of expansion and collapse them afterwards you need as much bio as possible in your Grapplings to keep uo the net
>Have the 4 Nomlings team up to cover the extra Isabelle compared to Grapplings we have.
>hitch a ride with Rath
>Once you land, pick two target that seem to be the furthest forward and send a BB at each clones knee, then aid your Knights in keeping the arm net up and the Clones back.
> the Jacklings strike whichever clone tries to get away first and second, lock them down, then move in with your Maw and Lionheart.
>Load more BBs and shoot more kneecaps out
>As a last resort, slam down a Spiral to throw off Isabelles footing and keep her from breaking throug by tripping her up

RATH;
>Pickup Julia and Shu
>see if you cant fling yourself up and above the Clones using a pillar or ceiling beam, rain down boils in front of the Clones to block their way and chuck a couple extra at mothers corpse
>use Extra limbs to drop down Julia infront of the Clones while shu lands
>If the boils seem to work, Keep bombarding it til you are forced to help face the clones, if they do not, turn and help keep the clones back, as you wait to see the next option.

JULIA;
>Hitch a ride with Rath, use your Cursas to help boost the group along further.
>Once you drop, take a second to pick out the Clone causing the most trouble and rush in to keep it back.

NOVEMBER;
>get your BAR up and spinning, and lay down covering fire on the Clones as Rath and the others get into position.
>Once the others land, take careful aim, shooting for the ones not yet covered to give them a hard time. Try and go for disable if outright kill is not possible.

AMARA CLONES;
>Have 3 Clones ride along with Shu and the others, Priming their Halos to be prepared to cover for them.
>Have a Clone ride on each Knightling, Halos Primed.
>Have 3 Cover November, Halos Primed.
>Have 7 Clones cast GRA RHO CUNT at the Isabelle clones to slow them down
>Have the rest start making their way to block off the corpse, taking a long arc around the clones, ready to react to keep the clones back as necessary.
>Keep their eyes and halos primed, try and pick out where the relic is, there has to be a sign, either an arm preoccupied, an Isabelle getting more protection, or some sign it is on that ones body.

>>3638293
Looks good to me. Supporting.

Anyways, looks like it was in fact the neurocloud power that B'Ni is using for stealth, not something separate she got from West. Leaving aside the fact that we should have seen a cloud of smoke last time she showed up, what sort of trouble do you think the cloud is going to give? Gina didn't mention it as part of her arsenal, so it's presumably not too useful, but do you think it might impede our accuracy or something like that? Block out our Halo-based senses, make it harder to spot things with them?

>>3638322
no idea honestly. part of the reason i wanted to go over too was to avoid finding it. she might not be able to keep it up if we harm her, but i guarantee we dont want to be in it, even if its just neuromantic blockers. sadly i dont think we have too many tools to get rid of it, which might become a massive problem even if it is nothing but camouflage. my guess however is itll allow her to 'feel' through the smoke, seeing hits coming, knowing where we are even if stealthed, that sorta stuff.

>>3638322
It probably does what it says on the Surface. Acting as chaff to disrupt Thoughtform communication and Detection. Could be that it would disrupt our Empathic field. At least the higher functions

I would guess that we should not move to deep into it, developing it further could grant it a stealth aspect she could use to literally disappear on us when we enter the fog.
She could as become more aware of things inside the fog acting as another sense

It will definetly affect our Accuracy as it is still chaff and makes her look hazy

>>3638348
Yeah, that seems plausible, given that B'Ni knows we've got stealth of our own. She'd want a defense against it.

>>3638354
I'm not sure how we can avoid going deeper into the neurocloud, though. It's being emanated by the B'Nis, we need to go into it to fight them. Maybe Rath and November slinging around fire will burn it away, though. Oh, or those specialized swarmlings with the big wings for dispersing gas. Shit, should we convert the banelings to those real quick?

>>3638370
>>3638348
You mean Winglings?


We can do that, convert like 6 Bane-Nomlings to Bane-Winglings to disperse the cloud?

Place them in strategic postions to blow the mist towards the windows which we smash with maybe November shooting them out?

>>3638370
nah, the clouds said to be behind them for the most part, that should give us at least a turn id think to make our move.

plus, we dont exactly have the slots to spare honestly.

>>3638402
Yeah. The neurocloud is between us and the B'Nis. We should disperse it real quick.

>>3638403
No, in front of them, we'd need to pass through it to get to the B'Nis.

>>3638402
we only have 4 and if we pull them back one Isabelle is suddenly alot more open to do what she pleases.

>>3638413
its coming from them but its worded as if it is between us and them, hence me wanting to go up and over it. even if its coming from them it will be massively thinner infront of them, as they moving forward moves them out of it at least a bit. and again, we dont have swarmling slots to spare., nor do i think it is worth it to cut our numbers down permanently just yet over an ability we might be able to otherwise work around.

>>3638416
Yeah, but what if the neurocloud hits us with something nasty as we pass through it? If we're not going to disperse it we need to change the vote to go around it. Well, I guess we kind of already are, we're trying to fling ourselves up and over the clones to hit them from the other side, but I'm just worried we'll get caught anyway.

>>3638413
>>3638433

Yeah i see it now we really have no more Swarmling cap to do it.

Could we have one of the Amara clones start SWARM OF THE SONG to get more Cap?
Then we could spawn a couple Winglings to start blowing the cloud away

We would still have 18 Amaras standing by and moving towards mothers corpse

>>3638433
if its so thick and being produced so fast its reaching the ceiling, we couldn't hope to get rid of it anyways. which im not so sure it is, but that still means we can go over and around it instead. losing the extra help keeping one of the clones back is just asking for that to be the one that breaks through.

>>3638438
might work, we can try it sure.

>>3638446
I'm just worried about the maximum height we'll be able to reach. But so long as Rath slings off the Knights as they approach, we should be fine. We've got everyone armored up with Chitinous Stalwarts, anyway, Ashen Fortitude should help protect against any neuromantic effects. Well, except for the Amaras. Sorry, Amaras. Though if things do go bad they can use FOL spells to help clear the effects.

>>3637893
Amending my Vote >>3638293
to include
Have one of the Amara Clones start the Dualtech SONG OF THE SWARM to increase our swarmling cap and spawn 4 Basic Winglings to disperse the Cloud towards the entrance and the windows

November "Firesweep" shoot out a couple of Windows while laying down suppressive Fire

>>3638438
>>3638446
(Are you saying that you wish to add this to your current plan?)

(Also, the fog does not stretch to the ceiling.)

>>3638465
yes i do wish to add it to my current plan

I am sorry if it came out unclear

>>3638463
>>3638465
well im not so sure on the windows but the Song and Winglings sure ill support that.

>>3638469
(No worries, I just wanted to confirm before I started adding it. The update will take a little while as its been a Monday, but it hopefully won't take too long.)

>>3638463
Not the entrance, we're at the entrance. That would be bad. But yes, the windows.

>>3638483
Are the Windows open already i assumed they were closed with glass or something similar

>>3638489
If we can not get it out through the windows the entrance will be the only place left to disperes it into otherwise we are just spreading it further into the room.

November can take it she has resistance to Neuromancy

>>3638500
(The windows are covered in a thick, crystalline material that is clear.)

>>3638515
Ah okay so breaking them is unlikely could you then add that november does not shoot a the windows specifcly if we break one in the fight we can redirect the Winglings to blow it out there so november does not have to stand in the Chaff

I am terribly sorry that i still want to change things after the end of Voting

>>3638526
(No worries. I normally wouldn't, but given the make-or-break nature of this scenario, I understand.)

>>3638500
>If we can not get it out through the windows the entrance will be the only place left to disperes it into otherwise we are just spreading it further into the room.
I was thinking we'd push it towards the sides of the room. Make a clear space in the center where we can fight.

>>3638552
Yeah, sorry about this. I blame myself, I came in late because I had to take care of some other stuff.

You know what we need before starting an epic battle? Some music. Luckily, a new volume of rwby songs dropped not long ago and I think this one can do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HQ55qf5gdA

It's kind of funny that B'Ni thinks we're the villain and we're matching her beliefs by starting the fight off with an ominous chant, a wind blowing away the fog, and invisible monsters tackling her. We're a much better boss fight than she is, dramatically-speaking. The Negaverse quest where she's the protagonist probably has the audience so excited right now.

>>3638634
its talk like that that makes BHOP smile as Isabelle pulls insane tricks out of her sleeve.

>>3638653
Too late, she blew her chance for a dramatic entrance. Doesn't matter what skills she pulls out, we've all got terrifying body horror powers. It's about the presentation, and she's lost the ability to do her most shocking moves.

>>3638692
well, fair, but i meant more she might fuck up said entrance.

(Bamboozling imminent, Gentlemen.)

>>3638835
>Gina said Isabelle could spawn seven clones.
Yeah, and all seven were there already. The clones are all equally B'Ni, her "original" body counts as one of them. We saw B'Ni and six duplicates, so they were all accounted for. Unless the fact that there's no true body was only because of synergy between Resentiment's Mirror and B'Ni's super-regeneration, and deleting that means there's a real body that is a weak spot, now?

File: Emerald Noose.png (1.71 MB, 1280x906)

1.71 MB PNG

>>3637893

Your sextet of Knightlings rip through the air, straining to catch up to B’ni and her constructs as Rath throws an arm around you and Julia, flinging her hand out at blinding speed towards the ceiling. The limb strikes home, burying itself deep within the stonework before the three of you are hauled skywards, leaving your newborn Winglings behind as your Amaras begin a chorus, strengthening your hive before the whistling of air and the roar of November’s gunfire robs you of your hearing. The space below you distorts under the effects of the simultaneous Skintalker assault, and you see your foes slow, just a hair.

The Knightlings are now gaining on the troop of Isabelles, barely keeping up with their ludicrous pace as you suddenly find yourself rocketing down to the ground when Rath kicks off the ceiling, aiming for the space between B’ni and Mother’s hovering form before the red-head lets go of your artisan. Julia hits the ground first, rounding on a B’ni that’s suddenly in her face as you struggle to orient yourself, and you take a moment’s stock of what’s happened to your swarm. They’re swinging at nothing, struggling to grab hold of thin, empty air…except it’s not empty. It’s filled to bursting with the mind-altering dust you so narrowly avoided, being blown away by your Winglings to the sides of the room but not soon enough to save your brood from the confusion that wracks their systems. It won’t last long, a few seconds at most…but at this moment, it may as well be years.

You bring the Contender to bear as well as you can, enough to fire a round into the knee of the clone in front of you and sending it tumbling into the stairs before you fire at another pair of legs. Your round whizzes past B’ni’s legs, the blur of movement carrying her past Rath…if she wasn’t wearing the Sui Tormentis, that is. Four arms fling out, clothes lining a pair of clones before snatching them up, and you turn your attention to the three others that were lagging behind as you hear Rath snap the legs of the two she’s holding. You slam your hand down, and the moment the ground begins to shift under the effects of Uzu’s power the team kicks off, a pair making it skyward and leaving behind a clone whose legs are caught in the alabaster undertow of frigid stone.

It’s when your Winglings finally clear away enough of the shimmering fog that the play becomes clear, with fractions of a second to spare. Another figure leaps from the dispersing cloud, her presence concealed up until now by the choking chaff. Her dark dress flutters as she ascends higher than the other two that threaten to clear your barrier, three pairs of emerald eyes locked onto Mother’ body.

Seven.

Gina said Isabelle could spawn seven clones.

(Continued)

>>3638874

Your small army of children is behind, too far behind to get closer in any span of time. Your current swarm is crippled, too late to be of use against the airborne trio that threatens to end this, here and now. Your world moves at a snail’s pace as it occurs to you that while you’ve been playing football, B’ni’s been playing a far more vertical game.

A spread of three bodies dart towards you, perfectly spaced. No tells, no cues. Perhaps it was too hopeful, too optimistic to think she’d dare give you anything to go on. She knows how you think in every way that matters on the battlefield, and in no way at all when it comes to how you feel.

It’s down to the wire, now or never.

Emerald eyes shine in the light as the world slows to a halt.

>>TIME UNTIL IMPACT: 1 ACT

HP: 650% (+35%, Matrons Stoicism, Ignition Gauntlets, Whistle: CUNT TER RHO)
BIO: 690% (+60%, 19 Subversive Rook-Platelings, Subversive/Recursive [You/Rath/Julia/November: Armored], 6 Subversive Quad Knighted-Grapplings, 2 Subversive Jacklings, 2 Subversive Scarlet Drones, 3 Subversive Bishops [Shu, Rath, Julia: 2 Rounds Left], 4 Subversive/Recursive Bane-Nomlings, 4 Winglings, 40/46)
CONTENDER: 2 x B.33 Loaded, Sword Form.
RAVENOUS MAW: Primed.
HUNDRED-HANDED: None.
ACT: 3/3

RATH HP: 860% (70%, Sui Tormentis, Gutgrab Daggers, 2400% ATK+, 2400% SPD+, 2400% DEF+)
JULIA HP: 880% (20%, Hydras Heart, Manus Caelorum, Cursas Alas, 20 Daggers, BLOODY RIPPER x 2)
NOVEMBER HP: 970% (Tier 1 Core)
CLONES: 43 Remaining, all with Radiant Boils in hand. [Song of the Swarm: ACTIVE]

Threat: Eight strong, real body unknown, Relic location unknown, close. Julia with one in melee, Rath has two in hand, one is rising at your feet after you shot her in the knee, one caught by Fear to tread, two airborne, almost within touching distance of Mother’s body. One final one, having emerged from the fog and higher in the air than the others.

YOU ARE IN CONTROL

(Voting shall remain open for the next two hours, Gentlemen. Apologies for the bamboozle, it's been a day. I hope yours is going well, and good luck.)

>>3638873
(There are eight enemy bodies in play; B'ni and seven clones. You saw seven bodies in play at the start, and B'ni had cloaked the eighth one before you arrived via Cere's power.)

>>3638845
Well this is it yeah........ Now or never Damn you OP this is killing me..... and did mother dump a level onto Isabelle? was that the deed that weakend her so much?

To deal with Isabelle we are gonna need Hundred Handed

They are our fatest reaction time with the biggest application of Range and Area affected.

>Spawn a chain of Hundred Handed Hands from our own Hand. Have the Hand Chain split and then grasp every Isabelle at a bodypart they can securely hold and immediatly collapse towards Shu. HAve Rath jump in between Shu and the Incoming Isabelles to grab and smash them all into the ground.
She can neither dodge nor gain momentum while Airborn so this should work

>>3638873
>>3638830
Just to stop Isabelle right now. Any other suggestions Anons?

>>3638879
SHU;
>have the Knights converge to stop the airborne group, one per the three, three per the higher one.
>Quickly slice the neck of the one before you in an arc as you bring the contender high, firing off the BBs at whatever you can hit above you, as you lash out with you Maw and HH to slam whichever one you can away.
>Have the Jacklings grab onto Rath and ride to the corpse, to intercept and lock down any Clones that get close.
>Have the Banelings focus down the clones already injured or behind, to keep them from catching up to the rest.

RATH;
>Quickly finish off the ones you have or toss them far away and Get moving again.
>Slingshot yourself to Mothers corpse, putting yourself between Isabelle and the corpse, and set literally everything on fire with boils as you enter Ignition mode. Im talking the ground, Mother, and the Isabelles in the air. Make the entire area an inferno.

NOVEMBER;
>See if you can gun down the airborne Clones, as you rush forward.
>Once within range, switch to aiding Julia with the shotgun, or Claws if its otherwise unsafe.

JULIA;
>Unleash a barrage of 10 quick jabs into your Isabelle clone, both hands going for slices to regain your health.
>If she gets past yours or your Amara clones Counter and gets a hit on you, quickly use Frozen to dish it back.

>>3638879
Right, we've got several tether moves. We can pull down one B'Ni with the tongue and the other two with Hundred-Hands.

>>3638893
>(There are eight enemy bodies in play; B'ni and seven clones. You saw seven bodies in play at the start, and B'ni had cloaked the eighth one before you arrived via Cere's power.)
Right, but I mean that being only able to make seven clones means that she can have herself and six others. Her original body is a clone, too. At least, it was the last time we fought her.

>>3638903
>>3638879
whoops, forgot Amaras orders
AMARA CLONES;
>Keep rushing forward, split one off per injured Clone to sneeze in their face.
>The Rest need to rush to help Rath block off the Corpse, use GRA SAN THA on themselves to get there faster.
>Once there, ger Halos primed and Queens up, and SNEEZE in unison to make a wall of SNEEZE between the airborne Isabelles and the corpse.
>Use GRA SAN THA on Rath.

>>3638903
I don't think the Knights are fast enough to catch them. We should go with our tether moves. Fire off several Hundred-Hands chains to pull them down.

>>3638907
(B'ni has a core, singular body now, one that is capable of sustaining a supposed maximum of seven clones at one time, hence the eight bodies. One of the eight is her actual body.)

>>3638923
well, they actually seemed to have been able to catch up, it was the neurotic cloud that made them stop is the problem. plus, hardly the only thing i had going after them, and they will help tremendously once they do get them.

>>3638903
This Anon>>3638923
is right we have about a second to bring all the Isabelles away from the Corpse.

The Knightlings might be fast but no need to risk it the Chains are literally lightning fast and can stop Isabelle not only dead in her tracks but actually make her put more distance between her and the corpse
We can have the Knights carry them away afterwards

By spawning several Hundred Handed Chains we can get them all away as in mid Air they can not dodge and can not gain momentum nor change trajectory.

And we have to stop her from just dissolving clones and bringing them out with her real body to quickly close the distance. We can only do it by being faster than she can react

>>3638928
I see. So either it was a synergy with her regeneration or just Resentiment's Mirror abandoning the lack of true body in exchange for the separate health pools. Either way, good. One more body isn't going to make much difference, but B'Ni having a weak point will.

Also, I feel in hindsight like my tone sounded a bit accusatory and I'm sorry if it did. That wasn't my intent.

>>3638937
Yeah, I just saw that you did have a "pull them down with tether moves" bit in your vote, sorry I overlooked it. But I'm not sure we have the time for it. We have one action before they reach the Corpse, and your tether comes after finishing off the downed body. I'd rather grab the B'nis first.

>>3638937
(I'm afraid the majority of your currently summoned swarm will be coming back online in the middle of next turn, and there is 1 ACT until impact from one of the threatening sources. There's certainly nothing wrong with planning the full turn, in fact I encourage it; I just wanted to make you aware of the time constraint in case it wasn't obvious.)

>>3638954
(Oh, no harm done. I appreciate your consideration, I just wanted to make the scenario clear.)

>>3638953
>>3638954
yeah i see the confusion, i re-worded it to
SHU;
>have the Knights converge to stop the airborne group, one per the three, three per the higher one.
>Quickly slice the neck of the one before you in an arc as you bring the contender high, firing off the BBs at whatever you can hit above you.
>Use your Maw and HH to grab hold and slam the airborne Isabelles into the ground, to await your Knights.
>Have the Jacklings grab onto Rath and ride to the corpse, to intercept and lock down any Clones that get close.
>Have the Banelings focus down the clones already injured or behind, to keep them from catching up to the rest.

to be more clear what i wanted.

>>3638959
fair enough.
so the knights will still go for the airborne group, just once they can.

>>3638962
Alright, I guess works, then. I've got to go drop someone off real quick, so goodbye for now. Not sure if I'll get back before the next story post, don't know how far this place is. Later, everyone.

>>3638879
Supporting >>3638903
and >>3638915

with the Amendment to Shus Actions like this >>3638962
with a priority given to the Maw and Hundred Handed Action to stop Isabelle from getting to the Corpse


>>3638959
Is Shus Halo primed to counter?

>>3638879
what>>3639029
said.

>>3639029
there SHOULD be an Amara clone with everyone with a primed halo.

>>3639049
(There is, yes. You're quite well-protected.)

>>3639029
(If you believe you would have primed it before the encounter or if you wish to prime it now, then by all means.)

>>3639049
>>3639057
If the Amara clones can throw themselves into critical attacks that are not directed at them then we do not need to prime the Halo but otherwise i would like to prime them

>>3638903
>>3638915
>>3638879
SHU;
>Quickly slice the neck of the one before you in an arc as you bring the contender high, firing off the BBs at whatever you can hit above you.
>Use your Maw and HH to grab hold and slam the airborne Isabelles into the ground, to await your Knights.
>Have the Jacklings grab onto Rath and ride to the corpse, to intercept and lock down any Clones that get close.
>have the Knights converge to stop the airborne group once you grab hold of them.
>Have the Banelings focus down the clones already injured or behind, to keep them from catching up to the rest.

RATH;
>Quickly finish off the ones you have or toss them far away and Get moving again.
>Slingshot yourself to Mothers corpse, putting yourself between Isabelle and the corpse, and set literally everything on fire with boils as you enter Ignition mode. Im talking the ground, Mother, and the Isabelles in the air. Make the entire area an inferno.

NOVEMBER;
>See if you can gun down the airborne Clones, as you rush forward.
>Once within range, switch to aiding Julia with the shotgun, or Claws if its otherwise unsafe.

JULIA;
>Unleash a barrage of 10 quick jabs into your Isabelle clone, both hands going for slices to regain your health.
>If she gets past yours or your Amara clones Counter and gets a hit on you, quickly use Frozen to dish it back.

AMARA CLONES;
>Keep rushing forward, split one off per injured Clone to sneeze in their face.
>The Rest need to rush to help Rath block off the Corpse, use GRA SAN THA on themselves to get there faster.
>Once there, ger Halos primed and Queens up, and SNEEZE in unison to make a wall of SNEEZE between the airborne Isabelles and the corpse.
>Use GRA SAN THA on Rath.

just for BHOPS sake, heres the so far finalized orders together.

>>3639159
>See if you can gun down the airborne Clones, as you rush forward.
What range are the B'Nis to her? Close enough that she can use her shotgun and turn this into skeet shooting?

>>3639182
hard to say, was more of wanting to make sure she got a shot first than risk the shotgun spread at her range being too negated. November is currently the furthest back too.

>>3639182
>>3639189
(Her best bet is the BAR at this range.)

>>3639189
>>3639193
Ah, too bad. Shotguns are literally made for shooting things out of the sky. Okay, and other things, but that's one of the fields they excel at. Well, rapid fire is good at catching flying objects too, I suppose.

>>3639197
once she gets closer she can, but for now she wasn't in a good position to move forward and so will do so at her own pace.

>>3639209
Yeah. Who are we going to have her prioritize, the upper B'Ni or the lower and closer ones? I think she should probably go for the lower and closer ones, while we aim for top B'Ni.

MOTHER FUCKER. I GOT BAMBOOZLED. I THOUGHT THE QUEST WAS GONNA START TOMORROW.

>>3639257
i mean, he said the day it would start, but glad to have you late than never still!

>>3639257
i mean, he said the day it would start, but glad to have you late than never still!

>>3639239
honestly i just wanted her to spray them all down.

>>3639278
>honestly i just wanted her to spray them all down.
Sure. But priorities, you know? I'm thinking start low and walk the spray up, so to make sure to get the ones closer to the Corpse first. Also, spraying plasma fire in their direction will also entail damaging the Corpse. That's always good.

>>3638879
>Shu: Fire all the Hundred Handed. Grapple Isabelle, Stop her.
>>3639071
>>3639159
People. We literally have only 1 act to stop Isabelle. We need to push her out of the way.

>>3639314
you say that as if grappling Isabelle is not on my list.

>>3639290
sounds fine.

>>3639314
Shu's got the fastest limb generation speed. We can't rely on Rath alone.

>>3639326
We're not. We've got making Hundred-Handed chains in the vote. Shu's move is going to be "Turn and fire Contender, while launching off Hundred-Handed chains to grab the bodies".

>>3639326
>>3639334
yeah one thing to keep in mind is, while i do try to keep them in order, even without that often i separate actions that could be taken together so as to avoid confusion. i am inconsistent in that though so i apologize for any confusion it causes.

>>3639257
(Apologies for the misunderstanding, and I'm glad you could make it.)

>>3639159
(There are currently two votes (>>3639029
and >>3639037)
that move the Maw and Hundred-Handed action to the top of your action priority; do wish to keep the priority as-is or change it to match their vote?)

(Additionally, last call for voting if anyone present has not done so already.)

>>3639349
yeah, my bad, i thought it was at the top but it got muddled as she can spawn arms and aim the contender at the same time technically. i often think of orders as the character would, not as a limited number of actions, my apologizes.

yes do the Arms first.

>>3639349
I think I would like to make it top priority. Or at least get rid of the slashing the B'Ni at our feat as we turn to fire the Contender. We can't do any excess motions, we need to get B'Ni back on the ground. All trying to dunk on us, make us feel like jive suckers because we only think of the ground game instead of the vertical. Yeah, no shit, B'Ni, we're thinking of the ground game. Our plan was to keep you on the ground, because the ground is where we can tie you down.

(Gentlemen, I am about to eat dinner, but I shall resume writing shortly thereafter.)

Why do I get the feeling that Mother reviving was inevitable? it just seems like for all our efforts, we just somehow fall short. It's almost as if Bhop the fucker mother planned to have us fight Mother in her prime after he saw the signs and did the math seeing how we stack up.

>>3639495
it better not be, we fucking took too many damn risks and gave up on too much to even have a chance here as it is.

>>3639495
Fall short? Anon, this is round one of the climactic battle. We haven't fallen short yet. B'Ni's trying to reach the Corpse, but even if she manages to get past us do you think it's going to be over just by touching it? Nah, we have plenty of chances to interrupt her. It's going to be a tough fight, but far from an inevitable one.

>>3639583
>1 act til impact
Do you not understand? Isabelle and Mother are working together. when they come in physical contact, all it takes is one of the two to activate the relic. All Isabelle has to do is touch Mother's body and Mother can instantly activate the Mind Transfer Relic. And once that's done Mother can use all the admin tokens she can to Freeze/paralyze everyone's bodies with ranged neuromancy and then take her sweet time killing us.

>>3639597
Mother is out of tokens. and we dont know for sure how the relic actually works. it is possible we only have this ACT, but it could still take longer for the process to finish, and its just a bitch to stop or something.

eve if it is only 1 ACT or bust, we still have a shot at this. multiple characters all working to try and stop this, thats 1 ACTs worth of time before she hits, but not 1 ACT worth of ways and chances to stop it.

>>3639597
Anon, I know it's tempting in a stressful situation like this to assume the worst, but I think you're reaching. Yes, things are dire. But none of what you said is a guarantee. B'Ni might need time to set up the Relic. Mother probably can't activate it on her own, given how many tokens she's spent. And likewise, if Mother had enough to paralyze the entire party, she probably would have done so already. We haven't lost yet, don't go panicking already.

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>>3638879

November's B.A.R. opens up with a roar, cutting down one of the airborne clones in an instant. You lock eyes with the other one just before a surge of hands obscures her face from view, bringing her body slamming down onto the cold, unforgiving throne room floor. A pair of bodies fly across the room, hurled with Rath's inimitable power and clear of Mother's body as you watch Julia carve into her foe with a flurry of savage slashes with her twin daggers, the slowed incarnation too slow to protect itself from getting torn to bloody shreds before your eyes.

A burst of wind at your feet is all the warning you get, realizing a half-second too late that the B'ni at the steps is gone, her handholds against the stone shattered from the sheer, unrelenting force with which she just propelled herself past you.

A defiant burst of terrible, hideous strength from B'ni's real body.

You round on Mother's corpse, Rath's strand-borne hands grazing Isabelle's neck as your dark-haired foe wraps her fingers around the Hexane corpse's bony wrist. Rath's hand is a fist around your old friend's neck when a wave of light shudders through B'ni and Mother alike...

>>CAST IN THE NAME OF THE ADMINISTRATOR...

>>...YE GUILTY

...and then everything goes a brilliant, blinding white.

When your eyes fly open and you rise to your feet you find yourself surrounded by Amaras three of which are wrapped in Julia's arms, her daggers laying some distance away, ignored in favor of protecting the children close to her. The fingers of Rath's gauntlets dig into the floor as she rises, while November's picking herself up from where she hurled herself down, helm focused on her niece. You find the head of the room, eyes searching past the dissolving clones of your oldest friend eyes straining past the glare of whatever's...

...it's her.

The radiance subsides...or rather, compresses wholly within B'ni's petite frame as she comes into relief against the stonework. Her teeth are grit with pain, tears welling in her eyes as her body fully consumes Mother's body as you start to race forwards, hoping against hope to stop the process before she can complete the process.

Emerald eyes fly open the moment you raise the Contender, and when Isabelle opens her mouth it is with the force of a hurricane and a sound like the end of the world.

"GRA&@$OMATHAREV+^$SEL."

>>PARTY STATUS: Paralyzed, Stunned, Disrupted (5 Turns)

You're on your knees, the Contender clattering to the floor as every cell in your body wholly rebels against your will. Your eyes are locked forwards, and from the pained groans around you it's clear you're not the only one who's been laid low by the incredible might of Mother's borrowed bower. Isabelle's eyes gaze into yours from across the room, and your blood runs with ice as the cold, clear reality of what's just happened settles into your mind.

It's over.

>>COMBAT: ...

>>...Ceased

(Continued)

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>>3639751

WELL DONE, GOOD AND FAITHFUL DAUGHTER

Mother's voice echoes in the chamber from everywhere and nowhere, all at once. B'ni reaches into her dress, withdrawing the same device you watched her take from the Hexane Armory; a slender tube, somewhere between an hourglass and a lamp in form, if not in function.

YOU WILL BE MORE POWERFUL THAN I EVER WAS

AT THE END OF MY CRUCIBLE

YOU WILL ACHIEVE HEIGHTS OF POWER

THE LIKES OF WHICH NONE HAVE KNOWN BEFORE

AND NONE SHALL KNOW HEREAFTER

You watch, helpless as B'ni raises the Relic above her head, an obscene act of sanctification at the behest of a cruel, bitter god.

BEAUTIFUL, MY DAUGHTER

SIMPLY BEAUTIFUL

B'ni stares at the crystalline hourglass, gazing into its depths as you feel Mother's very essence leap with joy.

IT IS FINISHED

OUR FREEDOM IS AT HAND

The sound the Relic makes as it shatters into a thousand, irrecoverable pieces against the ivory floor is one that echoes in the ancient hall for what feels like an eternity.

WHAT

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE

WHAT HAVE YOU...

"I did what I came here to do." Comes Isabelle's soft, tired reply in the face of Mother's denial, laced with an mounting sense of realization.

NO

NO NO NO

WE WERE A TEAM

YOU WERE GOING TO COME HERE AND

AND I WAS GOING TO

"...Hijack me?" B'ni interrupts with a roll of her eyes. "Yeah. Yeah, that was kind of obvious."

HOW

HOW DID YOU KNOW

YOU WERE WEAK

YOU WERE SO PATHETICALLY WEAK

SO VULNERABLE

SO MALLEABLE

"Because you came to me in my darkest hour. Because you promised me the world, and everything I ever wanted. Because you listened, and coddled, and played the part...but mostly?" Isabelle says, eyes cast to the ground...until her gaze flits to meet yours. "...because I know exactly what a predator looks like."

Mother is seething now, the pure white building contorting with violent shadows that play on the peerless surface, the light devoured piecemeal as a void slowly take shape in the space between you and Isabelle.

THIS IS NOT HOW IT ENDS

I WILL NOT ALLOW THIS TO BE HOW IT ENDS

You can feel a gathering storm of fury, directed solely, purely at the small girl at the head of the throne room.

NO

I WILL END YOU

I WILL TEAR YOU AND EVERYONE YOU LOVE LIMB FROM LIMB

I WILL REDUCE YOU TO ATOMS

I WILL EXPUNGE YOU FROM EXISTENCE ITSELF

"Then do it." B'ni replies coldly.

(Continued)

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>>3639757

Silence.

"Thought so." B'ni says with a sigh as the air around you roils with impotent fury. "You're running on empty right about now, aren't you?"

YOU HAVE NOT BEATEN ME, YOU DISGUSTING LITTLE ALIEN

YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT I'M CAPABLE OF

YOU CANNOT BEAT ME

I CANNOT BE BEATEN

I REFUSE TO BE BEATEN BY THE LIKES OF YOU

YOU HAVE NOT BEATEN ME

"You're right. I didn't." Comes B'ni's curt reply, nodding towards you and your family. "They did. They beat you at every turn, crushed every instance of your desperation. You had this whole, grand plan...but you didn't think it all through. You backed the wrong horse, and now? You've lost everything. I know how you feel, Mother. As I think Rath would say...'shit sucks.'"

You watch B'ni take a deep breath, and let it out in a shuddering sigh as she flexes her tense hands.

"Just so you know, I have zero intention of completing the Crucible. Right here, right now? You're proof enough that its a useless reward." She declares, the first words she's uttered in the past few minutes that haven't been laced with the pure weight of exhaustion. Rather, they're charged with intent, a flame of determination that threatens to consume anything that would stand between her and her heart's desire. "I will use your power to ascend the Cord. With what I've stolen from you, I can be there in a matter of minutes. I'll use the power you were supposed to use for you and Charon's original plan and I'll make my home there, at the world's summit. Away from anything and everything that would interrupt what I deserve."

YOU CAN WIN THE CRUCIBLE NOW

YOU CAN END THIS

Desperation creeps into mother voice as she tries to bargain, every word from the Hexane Administrator's void only serving to deepen Isabelle's growing scowl.

YOU CAN END EVERYTHING

YOU CAN SET ME FREE AT TAKE YOUR RIGHTFUL PLACE ON...

"Oh, no. No, I'm not freeing you. In fact, you know what, Mother? You get to watch." She says, and for the first time the pure, seething rage that fills the void subsides.

In its place is a cold, creeping horror.

"You get to watch me live out the rest of my days with the person I love. It's everything you hoped you'd achieve on your first go-around, isn't it?" B'ni chuckles. "Now you can watch me get everything you could never have. I think that's fitting for something like you, isn't it?"

I

PLEASE

PLEASE, NO

NOT LIKE THIS

PLEASE PLEASE NO I

"GRA+^%..."

She chuckles, with a glance towards Julia and her three Amaras, held tight in arms that struggle to obey their owner before B'ni completes her phrase with a cruelly familiar epithet.

"....CUNT."

NO

NO WAIT I
...

...Silence falls in the Hexane throne room once more.

(Continued)

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>>3639780

"And...mute." B'ni mutters, eyes cast to the cavernous ceiling.

She takes a breath.

A breath that could sunder you to pieces. A breath that could bring this tower down around you in an instant. A breath that could turn any fight into a slaughter. A breath...that she just releases, her slight, shuddering sigh echoing for a moment in the vast, empty space before the tomb devours it whole. She whispers something under her breath, and suddenly your body is freed, and with slow, careful deliberation you rise to your feet, gaze locked on your oldest friend and greatest foe standing mere meters away. Your allies have not been served the same courtesy, and as much as you ache to rush to their side, you just stand, defiant in the face of all the power in the world.

Your gaze locks with Isabelle's in silence.

She's just staring at you with a strange, sad look in her emerald eyes, and it occurs to you that she's not plotting, or planning, or poised to strike.

She's letting you have the first word...for now, with the tools to end the world at the tip of her tongue, she will always have the last.

She's waiting.

For you.

To speak.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL

>>3639791
Bhop. You fucking Bamboozled us. Big time.

(Gentlemen, I shall be pausing here for the evening. Voting shall remain open for the next twelve hours, and posting shall resume thereafter. Thank you for bearing with my Monday even as you worked your way through yours, and I appreciate your time, participation, and enthusiasm more than I can express. I shall be around for a little longer to address any questions, comments, or criticisms you may have, and I welcome them no, no exceptions. Thank you again for being such an amazing group, and rest well.)

(Also,you're still quite on track to the Golden Ending. The whys and hows will become apparent soon enough.)

>>3639791
>"...If you're not going to kill us, then id like my family to be released. and if you are going to kill us, all i ask is you make theirs easy and take any anger out on me."

>>3639809
...not gonna lie, id of preferred to just have a fight and a fighting chance to actually prevent this, and i dont feel like we had that. honestly? one too many times of feeling like the option we got was inevitable and everything we fought so hard to try to do was pointless BHOP, ill see where you plan to take this, but im not a fan of your last few decisions, i gotta be honest with you. regardless of how you have ended each of these decisions, my love of the quest was based around the feeling what we did mattered, and for the last while its felt way too ham strung and like in the end their weight really was nullified more than im comfortable with. a good outcome does not feel good when you would prefer a bad outcome if its what you actually deserved, or the good outcomes start to feel like it had nothing to do with you and your fellow anons decisions, and thats what this is starting to feel like.

>>3639751
>You round on Mother's corpse, Rath's strand-borne hands grazing Isabelle's neck as your dark-haired foe wraps her fingers around the Hexane corpse's bony wrist. Rath's hand is a fist around your old friend's neck when a wave of light shudders through B'ni and Mother alike...
So why isn't B'Ni dead? I mean, her super-regeneration is nerfed now, so she actually needs her head to survive again. And Rath was in Ignition mode, so there's an inextinguishable thermite charge going off on B'Ni's thoracic vertebrae.

>>3639826
Yeah, this was really unsatisfying. It's such an anticlimax, you know? We were all set to put our planning and hard work into action and defeat B'Ni, foil Mother's plan and then taunt her for her failure. And then whoop! Turns out that we couldn't have stopped them. But it's "okay", because B'Ni's going to hijack what should be our victory and our gloating, and kill Mother for us. What fun.

>>3639856
i think Isabelle just plan to camp at the top of the cord and make herself her Shu clone, i dont think she actually plans to rewrite the cord. worse, she is gonna literally be a Mother level boss just....sitting exactly where we need to be, and very likely will try to stop us or anyone else who tries to either complete the crucible, or hijack it like we plan to do.

or so is what i interpreted her goal as. take it how you will.

>>3639874
Yeah, I don't think she's going to end the game. That doesn't make it any less frustrating for B'Ni to steal our climactic showdown from us. I was really looking forward to this, because even if we lost we'd lose on our terms. Facing down the impossible to prevent armageddon. But now we've had the agency stolen from us, as much as B'Ni tries to give us credit for foiling Mother's plans. If anything that's worse, because B'Ni still took the agency from us, so it's just rubbing it in our noses that everything we did just enabled her victory here. B'Ni has been long characterized as someone too irrational to have true agency. At her best she's a mad dog lashing out at the world, and has more commonly been seen in the role of dupe or patsy. That's the impression of B'Ni that we have, so suddenly giving her control doesn't make it seem like she's seized it and finally grown as a person but just that we've been diminished to below her.

>>3639856
I can quite agree. but being someone who came late to the party and isn't caught up in the emotional stakes of planning... you can't just let your emotions get the better of you and call Isabelle a cheater. She played by the rules and used the most of what she had.

However, we should applaud Isabelle for enduring so much and pulling this off. She fucking outplayed everyone here. Including Mother.

>>3639791
>Open you mouth to speak...then close it.
>try to come up with words for a few minutes. a phrase, anything. Finally settle on something akin to a confession and a last will.
>"You were right Isabelle. You were right about Sam."
>"I saw Sam's memories. Bits and pieces. You may have heard this before from Sam's mouth, but hear it from my own perspective. Shu's Perspective. The details are a bit sparse, but the main beats are there. When Sam was little her father died. When you met her in your childhood, she was self centered and hurt. She punched that bully because said bully insulted her dead father. She didn't notice you until after the fact. Much of her anger and stress came from her mother bringing in boyfriends and suitors that abused her ever since. She was quite angry at her mother from losing control, for falling for a man who gave her black eyes on a daily basis. And...I guess that's what broke her into manipulating you. The loss of her father, the loss of control, the daily torture by her abusive soon-to-be Step-father...Somewhere along the way she got a twisted notion that love is a weakness that she could manipulate. Sam felt no love during your first kiss."
>*a shuddering breath comes out. Knees weak, palms sweaty, arms heavy.*
>"if...if it still doesn't matter to you...If you still see me as Sam because I wore her face and share her memories...if you still want to kill me... then do it. Do it now. But leave my family alone. They have no part in this."
>"YOU ARE IN CONTROL now, Isabelle. I trust you."
>let go of everything. any semblance of control, just let it go. Close your eyes and await her judgement.

>>3639809
For one, I thought the geists and the zombie daughters brought Isabelle to a literal stalemate giving us time to catch up to her and possibly overtake her.

As much as it pains me to write this write-in dialogue, and as badly as I feel blueballed from seeing our victory being snatched by Isabelle. I feel that Isabelle deserved this win. She practically out-played everyone here. Enduring 2 years of waiting for Shu, 1-week of relative bliss and happiness, 2 weeks of her utter darkest hour, and now she cheated Mother out of a deal and got her powers out of it while simultaneously giving Mother her just deserts.

>>3639951
eh....no, i really dont like that. we simply dont care about Sam, and we already knew and admitted that Sam was horrible.

and i dont want, think its makes sense, or think its appropriate to just spew nonsense about Sam to her.

and i am, viciously, ruthlessly, against trusting Isabelle at all, certainly in saying it. keep it short and to the point like i did. both She, Us, and the situation calls for it.

literally all i agree with there at all is;
>Open you mouth to speak...then close it.
>try to come up with words for a few minutes. a phrase, anything.
>"if...if it still doesn't matter to you...If you still see me as Sam because I wore her face and share her memories...if you still want to kill me... then do it. Do it now. But leave my family alone. They have no part in this."

>>3639922
yeah, this really feels totally out of left field for Isabelle, she has shown us no reason to think she would mentally be able to get past her issues to do this. and yeah, i mean, i dunno, i wasn't after a big chance to gloat, i wasn't after the greatest ending to this fight ever...i just wanted it to feel like the outcome was dependent on what we did, and was ours, and this just doesn't feel like it at all. id rather stray from the 'golden ending' because its what we ourselves did, then feel like we are being shoe horned onto it like this.

>>3639990
>>3639951
well, fucking 4chan. why did it repaste the old shit?

literally all i agree with there at all is, damnit;
>Open you mouth to speak...then close it.
>try to come up with words for a few minutes. a phrase, anything.
>"if...if it still doesn't matter to you...if you still want to kill me... then do it. Do it now. But leave my family alone. They have no part in this."

not mad at you or anything, just frustrated so wasn't in the mood for a glitch or whatever.

>>3640001
I have a similar issue. my mouse keeps randomly double-triple clicking despite me hitting the button just once.

>>3639951
>I can quite agree. but being someone who came late to the party and isn't caught up in the emotional stakes of planning... you can't just let your emotions get the better of you and call Isabelle a cheater. She played by the rules and used the most of what she had.
Oh, she's worse than a cheater. She's a time-waster. I'd be fine with a villain who just pulled out lots of unexpected advantages and made things very hard for us. This is worse, this is a villain invalidating all the build-up to fighting them.

>However, we should applaud Isabelle for enduring so much and pulling this off. She fucking outplayed everyone here. Including Mother.
No. No we shouldn't. Because B'Ni has not been established as being this smart. And it's not even a "I was just tricking you into thinking I was stupid" thing, because we were inside her head. She didn't earn this. And she endured nothing that she didn't put herself through. I am voting against your write-in with my own.

>>3639791
>"What do you want, for me to applaud you? 'Wow, that Isabelle, she sure is smart. I'm feeling so bad for thinking she was tricked by Mother just like she was tricked by Sam'. No, I regret nothing I have thought about you. You are awful, Isabelle. You have been nothing BUT awful, since the day I met you. Every single interaction with you has been an unending source of stress as you flail about with your complete lack of control or rationality. And now you're going to pretend that it was part of your scheme all along? Fuck you."
>"You know what, I don't even care anymore. I am just completely done with you, Isabelle. Kill me, spare me, win the Crucible, hijack the Crucible, whatever. I don't care. It's not worth the aggravation that comes from acknowledging your existence. It is NEVER worth the aggravation of acknowledging your existence. Now, I am going to take my friends and leave. You can kill us if you want, but I'm not even going to turn back and look at you."

>>3640033
well, your write-in isnt much better, im against it to.

Shu might not have any reason to do what the other anon wrote, but yours is going a bit too far in a different direction. Shu, if for no other reason than her love for them, would not antagonize Isabelle in such a way, she would like the parts i kept of the other one or mine, try and get her family spared. she wouldn't not care. about Isabelle? in a way maybe sure, but not about the situation and what could happen.

the other anon was out of character via needless information and caving in in ways that dont matter, yours i think is too influenced by your understandable anger, but otherwise completely throws who and what Shu is out the window just for a middle finger scenario. she still is her own character IC, and she wouldn't be angry so much as nervous and scared for her family, and maybe the planet.

also as much as im not a fan of Isabelle she actually wasn't at all bad for the first little while, and in some ways was even a good friend to us. its just she was also insane and expected to get something out of us over nothing and threw a hissy fit when it didn't happen.

>>3640065
Shu, if for no other reason than her love for them,
them being her family, not Isabelle.

>>3640065
Yeah, it wasn't really a serious write-in. I know that's now what Shu would say here. What she'd think, maybe, but not what she'd say. I'm not even that angry, really. Just tired, I guess is how I'd put it. All my enthusiasm for this arc has evaporated, leaving me with nothing but apathy. That's what motivated the write-in, the desire to never have to interact with this plot thread ever again, because I am so bored with B'Ni right now. But yeah, I should try to write something more in-character. Give me a minute, I've got to go take my meds real quick.

>>3639809
>"Thought so." B'ni says with a sigh as the air around you roils with impotent fury. "You're running on empty right about now, aren't you?"
>>3639809
Okay. Now I'm VERY Curious.
What was Ozmas total Admin pool (aka How many tokens did she have)?
How many did she spend prior to the race to Almath? (Basically how many tokens did Mother have left before she had the harebrained idea to goad Isabelle into the whole Mind Transfer Scheme)
How many tokens DID Ozmas spend/burn?
Of the number of tokens spent, who in Shu's family made Ozmas Burn the most tokens?
With Mother being essentially gone from the Admin chair and trapped inside Isabelle's mind, are the Geas and contract placed on Ringo and Charon rendered Null and Void?

>>3640033
Okay that write-in is just begging for death. First of all, Isabelle gave the credit of defeating Ozmas to Shu's Family (aka us anons). She implied that all the effort towards stopping Ozmas was by Shu's efforts, Isabelle herself didn't take any credit whatsoever. Second, if she was going to ever take the time and gloat like the cunt you perceive her to be, she would've said so while shutting Mother down and laughing all the while. Instead she deferred to Shu, so let us speak out piece with as much respect as she could give us. You're using the opportunity to act like the biggest cunt like Sam was back from the grave, your anger while justifiable just breaks Shu's character for who we built her up to be. Isabelle can kill us with Seven deadly words in the middle of your salty tantrum if she ever felt like it. Third, you've completely forgotten the situation we're in. Shu's alone and free from paralysis, but EVERYONE ELSE IS NOT.

Okay.... emotional counterpoint over. I still respect the write-in you wrote, but I will not support that.

>>3640065
>>3640072
I'm sorry for sounding so "submissive", but I cannot find a reasonable IC response to the literal anti-climatic plot twist that just happened. so I wrote my response based on this emotional feeling of how Shu would feel of "yes, we're powerless against Isabelle, but we might as well part on neutral/good terms." Hence the soppy write-in.

But I'll accept your proposed amendment and will change my vote with a few amendments of my own:
>>3639791
>Open you mouth to speak...then close it.
>try to come up with words for a few minutes. a phrase, anything.
>"if...if it still doesn't matter to you...if you still want to kill me... then do it. Do it now. But leave my family alone. They have no part in this."
>*close your eyes, try to channel as much calm into the panicking minds and hearts of your family. Wait for Isabelle's judgement.*

>>3640100
nah, i understand where you're coming from. i thought win or lose, this was kinda the climax to Isabelles arc. instead now shes just...jumped the gun as a character and now we're stuck with her as an unwanted and undeserved final boss.

at least despite how much i despise West in every way, THAT in and of itself makes her a deserving villain, because the reasons i hate her also logically make her a threat.

>>3640110
>What was Ozmas total Admin pool (aka How many tokens did she have)?
im curious too, but i think i mentioned in the last thread people were underestimating how much a 'small pool' actually is when you take into account its a small pool she has to administrate an entire planet with.

>Isabelle gave the credit of defeating Ozmas to Shu's Family
well, besides the fact the Anon admitted he was just Venting, i have to agree with him her saying that doesn't solve the issues with this outcome in my opinion, and feels kinda ham fisted to me too. more sudden character shifting that feels too out of place and undeserved, aswell as it feels entirely wrong and like its not actually really true at all honestly. i mean, yeah we overcame alot, but Mother herself knew it was an 'win the war not the fight' situation, and...we lost the War, and thats all that matters at the end of it. we didnt defeat Mother, not at all. we couldn't stop her or isabelle. the only thing that stopped her was Isabelle suddenly having, in my opinion, a character shift that doesn't make sense and isnt deserved.

>But I'll accept your proposed amendment and will change my vote with a few amendments of my own
eh, i can accept that one. still feel Shu would still have a little more defiance than that in her, but i suppose you could argue her fighting to save her family and take it all on her own shoulders IS defiance against the very real fact she knows its futile to even try that much.

>>3639791
Oh Fuck.

>>3640100
>>3640110
im mostly venting, but id like to point out i wanted to cut the throat of the Isabelle infront of us, and BHOP encouraged us to instead focus on the skybound ones only, and of course that one then turned out to be the real one. maybe im just mad but thats kinda grating me as it feels like he was trying to influence the result towards what he wanted instead of what we had written. not to mention it had a BB in it that should've gone off.

24 archives later, I have finally moved up from lurker (of sorts) to participant. I’m so excited to be taking part in one of the greatest stories I’ve ever read. BHOP, you mad god, I’m such a huge fan of your work. (also, has no one mentioned that bhop sounds like bunny-hop?) Can’t say I’ll be much use, since I don’t have internet at home, but I’ll help where I can.

>>3640221
>maybe im just mad but thats kinda grating me as it feels like he was trying to influence the result towards what he wanted instead of what we had written. not to mention it had a BB in it that should've gone off.
>not to mention it had a BB in it that should've gone off.
Well, rereading the action report, it seemed that the for the BB we shot at that Isabelle, the Timer was set to explode at 2 rounds even with short fuse, if we were to stop that Isabelle and have the BB round in it explode in the very next round, we would've had to waste one action nicking her with the Contender blade at the risk of letting the other three clones touch Ozma's corpse. If we really wanted to cripple that Isabelle, we would've selected the Herculean Fullbore or the Parabellum round instead.

>>3640231
>BHOP
>Bunny Hop
>Isabelle
>B'ni
of all Fucker Mothers and Ozmas.
Why didn't I think of that before? Isabelle is literally Bhop's DM-PC.

Okay, I was trying to come up with a write-in that is in character, and I thought of something crazy. Hear me out: What if we trick B'Ni into eating us? We use that to activate Hexane Rewrite a second time, delete her new skills, then manifest as a Geist Daughter and resume the fight. Come on, we don't have to be at her mercy. We can assert control over the situation, we just have to convince her that the worst thing ever would be if she ate us so we're stuck dealing with her still. Express my apathy towards her and do something in-character by trying to pull off a win against the odds, it's the perfect solution!

>>3640221
I thought it was the B'Ni that got knocked over by Fear To Tread that was the real one? Doesn't really matter. I'll give B'Ni some actual credit for that one regardless, she successfully tricked us. Although, she should have failed either way and it's still a railroad, because Rath totally got B'Ni before she could absorb the corpse and BHOP is just ignoring that.

>>3640260
>have Isabelle eat Shu
>Literally giving Shu the Game over treatment for the sake of deleting Isabelle's newly gained skintalker powers
>trying to have Isabelle fall for the Hexxane Deletion ploy when she's already been burned once before with Gina pulling that exact same trick on her.
Anon. get your head on straight. Bhop's already shown that Isabelle isn't some braindead mindless dumb cunt who falls for the exact same trick twice. If she was a braindead mindless dumb cunt that you perceive her to be, then explain how she managed to survive for 2+ years protecting herself AND Shu's pod?

>>3640257
actually the idea was the BB slows and cripples limbs when it explodes, hence using them on a speedster. alos that doesn't answer the other part of my...whatever it is. it also usually has 2 rounds, and is down to 1 round. we hit her last round, and so it should've gone off this one.

also that second part about names doesn't make me feel any less annoyed at this situation, only more.

>>3640260
yeah...no. just no. we are not going to try and get killed by her.

>>3640231
well glad you like it but you joined at...an interesting point i suppose.

>>3640274
I'm not saying she's stupid. I'm saying she's irrational, and makes bad decisions. When she commits to a crazy idea (like, say, guarding the pod of someone she thinks is Sam) she can be very successful at it, but that doesn't mean she's making good decisions. We just have to convince her that eating Shu is totally a sane idea, and not something a crazy person would do.

But fine, it's probably not something we can do anyway. Too many moving parts, and we don't have the understanding of the Neurotic Halo that Gina does. Fine, back to coming up with a write-in that's in-character while still expressing my absolute disdain for B'Ni.

>>3639874
>>3639922
(B'ni has no intention of ending the game, as she stated. She plans to stagnate it, resting at the top of the Cord and stopping anyone from ending it.)

>>3640231
(Glad to have you Anon, I'm glad you could join.)

>>3640257
>>BHOP
>>Bunny Hop
(I...I never realized that, actually.)

>>3640260
>>3639838
(I feel personally responsible for this, as Rath's attack was actually a miss but I wanted to write something a little more fun than just a simple miss at this critical moment. My apologies for the flair making it seem like I invalidated Rath's attack.)

>>3639826
>>3639856
(You know what; you're absolutely correct. In trying to balance how and when the end-game bosses get into position, I will admit that rushed to tie off the loose ends before opening the world completely before you get to the Cord, and as much as I enjoyed everything leading up to this point, I am sorry that you feel let down.)

(As >>3639922 mentioned here, while I may have been going for the feeling of B'ni seizing control and becoming more laser-focused on her goal than ever before to set her up for the endgame, it honestly didn't occur to me that it would feel like another instance of railroading, and that's something that I think comes from the fact that I've been something of a 'forever DM', with any time that I've played having been a one-shot affair. I think it's a result of trying to make 'cut-scene-esque' encounters that normally went over well in the groups I've played with apply here, when I can't necessarily rely on the speed of things like I can in real life.)

(Then again, that's just an excuse, plain and simple. For those of you that have stuck with me through thick and thin, you have my sincere thanks. For those of you who are less than pleased with how these last two Veins have gone, I'm sorry for making you feel like your choices don't matter. That was certainly never my intention, given the main theme of the quest is control and what people make of it. You and everyone here matter to me, and the fact that recent events don't sit well with you means they don't sit well with me, either. I even considered re-writing this whole section, but...well, choices are choices, for good or ill.My personal experiences inform much of the quest's plot in an abstract way, and I'll be sticking with the events as they've come about if only because changing things now would invalidate the payoff for things that are yet to come.)

(I hope you can find the time and patience to bear with me as this arc hurtles towards its conclusion, and also know that I hear your concerns, and they absolutely matter to me. I started this quest to bring a fun place to life and share that setting and these characters with others, and I want to adhere to that. I hope I haven't turned anyone off the quest, but I understand if I did.)

(I need to get some rest, and I hope all present sleep well. Thank you for your time and your honesty, as I value both.)

>>3640388
i mean, i appreciate your honesty, but still feel nothing said really justifies or solves many of the underlying issues and complaints put forth. ill give you your fair shot, but at this point im not gonna lie, i doubt any 'payoff' will feel anything but ham strung onto the end of a ham strung section id probably prefer to just not get at this point, but we'll see i guess. saying that kinda feels like you're saying 'hope this thing you got only because i took away the point of the game makes up for me taking away the point of the game!'

>>3640455
(I don't feel like I can properly justify it, at this point. As far as solving it, I believe the only way to do so is to keep moving forward and strive to make the quest as best as I can while learning from the mistakes I've made along the way.)

>>3640482
thats fair, i can at least agree to that.

>>3639791
>"Do whatever you want, Isabelle, I'm not going to beg. If you really have all the control that you claim to then you hardly need me to justify your decisions. You do have control, don't you?"

There. As in-character as I can make it. Defiant to the end, but not being outright uncivil with B'Ni.

>>3640388
> I even considered re-writing this whole section, but...well, choices are choices, for good or ill.My personal experiences inform much of the quest's plot in an abstract way, and I'll be sticking with the events as they've come about if only because changing things now would invalidate the payoff for things that are yet to come.

Here's the thing, BHOP: You've already invalidated a payoff. These past two threads were a huge build up, and it was really cool. Discovering Mother's bunker, figuring out Mother's plan, fighting the Phalanges, trusting Dorian to get past the obstacles, pursuing B'Ni further into the wasteland, discovering Almath, and then teaming up with the Dream Daughters for an epic showdown so big that you had to invent squad rules for it. It was really cool! I was so excited for our climactic showdown.

And then it was over in a single turn. One turn, that's all we got. We didn't even get a chance to bring in the Dream Daughter squads. No big dramatic fight, just a cutscene that was a complete anticlimax for resolving the problem of Mother. Worse, it elevated B'Ni to the status of end boss, so her plot thread is going to take to the very end of the quest to resolve. Which is doubly aggravating because rescuing Gina is tied to B'Ni's plot thread, so we're not getting her back, either. All that excitement we had about the Sparagmos Engine? Pointless, Gina's not going to rejoin the party until after she could be in any way useful. Maybe there's going to be some way for us to get her back right here and now, but honestly that's such a complete longshot that there's no way we could plausible do it via our own actions. So it's just going to be more railroading, denying us agency again.

So what I'm saying is: If you feel you have to preserve this in order to not invalidate a later payoff, then you're already playing a zero-sum game. You'll have ruined one resolution to set up another. But if we're dealing with a zero-sum anyway, why not walk this back? Declare it noncanon, give us a proper fight against B'Ni. Maybe we'll still lose, but at least it would be a cool loss after a hard-fought battle, instead of a one-turn total party wipe.

>>3640551
Still feel that write-in ignores Shus drive to protect her family is my only big piece to argue.

>Second part
I agree with you anything we get out of this will feel... soiled, but id very much prefer not restart the section. The damage has been done, any redo simply wont have the same impact it could've and will also then feel in its own way a bit ham fisted. It just wont fix the feelings this caused and will only muddy the waters more, as now he would have to struggle to make the outcome feel real. What if we still get basically the same ending? No matter what he does, it would bring up the feeling of if he actually let us have agency or if there was any point to the redo. Sure, in theory theres a chance for many other outcomes, but the section is now tainted in a way a redo wont remove. I dont like what Happened, i have my issues with it greatly, but BHOP is at least right in getting all of this wrapped up and onto the next part of the quest will better allow him to improve and avoid his mistakes here again. At this Point the agency we want and he wants to give cant be properly implemented until we get past this part, because until we are away from it the linger emotions and mistakes wont go away. It would work out better and i honestly just want ot get this over with.

But yeah i honestly im absolutely sick of Isabelle and cant lie, im not looking forward to the and of this quest anymore. Isabelle has overstayed her welcome and this was a good opportunity to end her arc...and now we're stuck with her, over reasons that honestly dont fit her character either.

>>3640482
...yeah, not gonna lie BHOP, making Isabelle your final boss was a massive mistake, knowing thats whats ahead honestly is killing my enthusiasm. She wasn't a bad Character but theres a limit especially for a villain for how much they can be entertaining as an antagonist and she honestly was a terrible choice to put into that position, regardless of any other complaints of how she got there. Her motivation and personality is just....underwhelming, tiring, and honestly at this point annoying, for being a literal end game boss.

>>3640612
>Still feel that write-in ignores Shus drive to protect her family is my only big piece to argue.
Yeah, maybe. But I'm not going to beg. If you want to look at it from that angle, I can say it's Shu trying to focus any anger B'Ni might have onto her.

>What if we still get basically the same ending? No matter what he does, it would bring up the feeling of if he actually let us have agency or if there was any point to the redo. Sure, in theory theres a chance for many other outcomes, but the section is now tainted in a way a redo wont remove.
Personally, I'd be fine with it so long as we actually got a fight. Get some proper hits in on B'Ni, make it look like she actually worked for this win even if for all we know she didn't. At this point I'd be satisfied just with the illusion of significance.

>But yeah i honestly im absolutely sick of Isabelle and cant lie, im not looking forward to the and of this quest anymore. Isabelle has overstayed her welcome and this was a good opportunity to end her arc...and now we're stuck with her, over reasons that honestly dont fit her character either.
I didn't want to say, but...oh god yes I can't agree with you more. B'Ni was fun, but she's also very frustrating to deal with, and I was looking forward to getting rid of her. Even if we didn't decisively defeat her here, I certainly didn't expect her to become the final boss and guarantee that she'll be looming over us for the entire quest. I figured that at most she'd last until the end of Act 2. If she is going to be the final boss, can we at least have a sudden surge of strength out of nowhere and give her a bloody eye before she goes, so we can characterize her holing up in the Cord as hiding from us?

>>3640455
>>3640482
I can see that the dissatisfaction is apparent to just about everyone both IC and OOC.

The main beats of the Arc's conclusion are there (Mother gets the shaft), but the fact that the one who does her in was Isabelle and her off-handed acknowledgement of giving Shu's Family the credit of defeating Ozmas felt more like a consolation prize for successfully outwitting Mother/Ozmas but failing to stop Isabelle from connecting with Ozma's corpse.

If we are going to discuss the theme of this quest, I believe this Arc has a big lesson that can be taken away from this if I were to look back at it. Sometimes the best laid plans might be all for naught, there are things that are still beyond your control despite your efforts, and the strongest power one can have is the choice of letting go of control, when to let go, and move on.

>>3640388
> I will admit that rushed to tie off the loose ends before opening the world completely before you get to the Cord, and as much as I enjoyed everything leading up to this point, I am sorry that you feel let down.
>I need to get some rest, and I hope all present sleep well. Thank you for your time and your honesty, as I value both.
....bhop. did you get enough rest and sleep? or were you running this vein on little sleep and little preparation? Because if the result of this anti-climax was because you felt rushed and harried to turn this quest from a linear plot to an open world rpgfest, then what just happened feels very much a anti-climatic disappointment.
We gave you a week to do what you need to do including focusing on July 4th and the weekend for you to relax and prepare for the climax of this second act. You could have asked for a time extension so you could sort out what needs to be done and slowly dragged this out so both you and us could work out the details.
We have been very, very, patient with you. We know you've done a very good job writing this quest and we keep our faith in trusting you to not rush things and accrue continuity errors. Likewise, you have been very honest with us in divulging critical information and clarifying matters within reason.
All in all, this one of those moments that make the quest stumble because of your need to rush things.

>>3640482
If there's anything that can be taken away from for you Bhop, it's to "Take your time." Take all the time you need. I'm not one to draw a comparison, but in several quests that I follow, all of the QMs took their time. If an arc still had some loose ends that needed to be resolved in a satisfying manner? They take their time and draw it out to its conclusion in a well paced manner. Heck, even Joker Quest did that, there's so many moving parts in that quest that it takes multiple threads to finish one fight. Admittedly, JokerQuestOP infrequently posts, but what he does do well is get all of his ducks in line before writing out the update.
>>3640612
I feel like this is simultaneously a high point AND a low point in this quest.

>>3640650
well, we can just disagree then on how Shu would handle this then.

and nah, i just wouldn't get any satisfaction anymore out of the fight. now it would just feel like BHOP throwing us a different bone as the saying goes, lets just move on. honestly giving her a black eye or something wouldn't solve it either, at this point it might just be unsolvable, for me at least.

>>3640654
>If we are going to discuss the theme of this quest, I believe this Arc has a big lesson that can be taken away from this if I were to look back at it. Sometimes the best laid plans might be all for naught, there are things that are still beyond your control despite your efforts, and the strongest power one can have is the choice of letting go of control, when to let go, and move on.
you can still do that in a way that feels more natural and well intentioned. we went into this fight knowing we could lose, i was willing to accept that. but this situation feels like we may aswell of just not tried at all, is the issue. you can feel like it was inevitable but still had SOME ability to act, rather than feeling like you didn't or you might of well have just not played at all. maybe im explaining this poorly, i dunno...im just positive this could've been done better, even if it came to the same outcome or even IF the outcomes was more or less guaranteed.

>I feel like this is simultaneously a high point AND a low point in this quest.
you can feel how you wish, but honestly so far the lowest point and nothing else for me. not something ill be able to just forget, and not for good reasons.

>>3640654
>If we are going to discuss the theme of this quest, I believe this Arc has a big lesson that can be taken away from this if I were to look back at it. Sometimes the best laid plans might be all for naught, there are things that are still beyond your control despite your efforts, and the strongest power one can have is the choice of letting go of control, when to let go, and move on.
But everything up until this moment has been phrased in terms of our choices. Do we choose to detour to kill Hatter? Do we choose to spend time healing Lara? Do we continue on after getting hurt badly by the Phalanges? Do we press on into Fallen Almath? At every point the outcome of this series of events was presented as the result of our choices. So to take that away at the end feels really cheap.

>....bhop. did you get enough rest and sleep? or were you running this vein on little sleep and little preparation? Because if the result of this anti-climax was because you felt rushed and harried to turn this quest from a linear plot to an open world rpgfest, then what just happened feels very much a anti-climatic disappointment.
I hope it's not. BHOP, please don't exhaust yourself over this.

>>3640699
>well, we can just disagree then on how Shu would handle this then.
I think part of it is that I'm not expecting anything we say to matter anyway. So I'm having a bit of trouble divorcing that from the in-character thinking. I just keep coming back around to the point of "If we survive this, it's not going to be because of anything we do, so I might as well not give B'Ni the satisfaction of having Shu beg".

>and nah, i just wouldn't get any satisfaction anymore out of the fight. now it would just feel like BHOP throwing us a different bone as the saying goes, lets just move on. honestly giving her a black eye or something wouldn't solve it either, at this point it might just be unsolvable, for me at least.
Giving her a black eye probably won't help much, but it will make me feel a little better if I can pretend that B'Ni is at the top of the Cord because that's the only place she can hide from Shu. "Oh shit oh shit, I'm the strongest Daughter in the Crucible now and she's still coming. Is this how Mother felt? Okay, top of the Cord, she can't get to me there!"

>>3640729
yeah, we are told our choices matter then twice, once near the end of the last, then here, given situations where our choices apparently dont matter, or are made to heavily feel like they dont.

>I think part of it is that I'm not expecting anything we say to matter anyway.
well, technically no, but you never know, and Shu would rather demean herself a bit in the meager hope it might spare her loved ones at least some pain than spit at Isabelle and make them all suffer more.

and...eh. im not seeing the satisfaction, ignoring if we could even land the punch.

>>3639791

>"Do whatever you want, Isabelle, I'm not going to beg. If you really have all the control that you claim to then you hardly need me to justify your decisions. You do have control, don't you? I justw ould like one thing. If you kill anyone here kill me let the others go they have nothing to do with your Grievance with me"

>>3640551
I think I will support this write with a small extension in as i think this is what Isabelle wants to hear. She wants Sam(or what she believes to be Sam) to acknowledge that she is superior. We are not gonna beg but we ask her like civil people to not hurt the people we and take it all out on us like>>3639826
brought to a pretty good point

>>3640388
Hey OP. Your writing is good but this just killed the Suspension completely. I can barely bring myself to make this write-in and work thorugh the discussion. The Almath Part felt like a lot of Railroading. Which may be because of the place itself appearing like a massive plot device(not in the bad sense, Plot Devices can be used in many different aspects) for being controled by emotion and taking on aspects of the people that view it.

I think what i am trying to say is this. I just want to get this part over with and step back out into a place where we can have more of an impact

>>3640811
>Which may be because of the place itself appearing like a massive plot device(not in the bad sense, Plot Devices can be used in many different aspects) for being controled by emotion and taking on aspects of the people that view it.
Hold up a minute, that's right. The place is psychoreactive. That's a pretty big Chekov's Gun to load, don't you think? We need to fire it at something. Shu has an empathic field, let's take control. Bring the city to life, have it fight B'Ni.

>>3640857
while inside the bubble that blocks all of that? i mean, i guess maybe once she steps out but shes so damn fast now she herself said it, she could reach the top of the cord in minutes now.

>>3640869
Well we have to do something with it. You can't just not fire the gun once you clean it and put it up on the mantelpiece.

>>3640878
well, no we dont. nor do we know if its possible. also bad analogy, thats exactly when you dont use a gun.

>>3640881
It's a literary reference, I'm not talking about an actual gun. Chekov's Gun is a dramatic principle named after advice given by Russian playwright Anton Chekov: "Remove everything that has no relevance to the story. If you say in the first chapter that there is a rifle hanging on the wall, in the second or third chapter it absolutely must go off. If it's not going to be fired, it shouldn't be hanging there." So if attention was specifically drawn to the city's psychoreactive nature, then there must be something it can be used for.

>>3640729
>>3640699

Ya know. I went and had a fridge-think of the logical conclusion to Isabelle's insane intention of simply camping out in the cord making Shu clones so she can play house with and it's downright creepy/scary/sad.

I see a level in the Cord, filled to the brim with carcasses, corpses, bodies of daughters. some still-living yet mutilated and writhing in pain. Some dead. All of them wear Shu's Face, all of them share Shu's physique. Or rather, Shu's many clones created by the Crucible from Isabelle's vain attempt to make the perfect "Shu".
In the floor above, is an idyllic scenery. Isabelle resting on the lap of a Shu clone. one of the latest in the line, of Isabelle's attempt to create her ideal "waif" of a lover. This Shu clone knows what has happened to those who came before her, but has been geas'd to stay despite who she is based off of. Isabelle on the other hand is feels happy, yet the happiness is hollow. Both are tired of the same game and roleplay.

>>3640857
And we're in the middle of a spire made of anti-empathy material. And the city can't do shit to Isabelle. Ozmas killed this city once with her skintalker power. Isabelle can do the same thing now that she has Ozma's lexicon.

>>3640913
>A city full of ghosts who hates the skintalker that killed them. A city that is psychoreactive by nature. A city that had the plans to halt the crucible and wishes to stop it.
it may be because it's 2 am, but somehow I feel that this city might be a really, really, good base of operations if we're going to need a fallback point. Shame about the anti-skintalker ghosts.

>>3640944
>And we're in the middle of a spire made of anti-empathy material. And the city can't do shit to Isabelle. Ozmas killed this city once with her skintalker power. Isabelle can do the same thing now that she has Ozma's lexicon.
Ozmas's lexicon, but not Ozmas' level. She just ate the corpse, she didn't have any special consumption-boosting skill or Relic. B'Ni's Skintalker skill should be level one, with the grand majority of the level ups going to existing skills. Maybe she has some augments from Ozmas, but the skill should still be much weaker than the original user's. She can't destroy the city like Ozmas could, we can do this. We have to get out of the spire, yeah, but once we do we can force B'Ni to fight an entire living city.

>it may be because it's 2 am, but somehow I feel that this city might be a really, really, good base of operations if we're going to need a fallback point. Shame about the anti-skintalker ghosts.
No, that sounds like a terrible idea.

>>3640913
it already has been used. the ectoslimes, the Zombies against Isabelle, and the Dream Daughters.

>>3640944
yeah, its not a consolation but Isabelles gonna learn you cant just MAKE a perfect companion, its just not how it works. especially basing them, even just physically, off of a visage that will bring back alot of thing you would prefer to forget.

>>3640966
>it already has been used. the ectoslimes, the Zombies against Isabelle, and the Dream Daughters.
No, that was how the ghosts manifested, we got an explanation for that with Almath being tied to memory. The "the city is mallable and responds to emotion" thing was brought up in response to Holly managing to make constructs. It's a separate gun. We can shoot this thing. Come on, just let me have some hope. I'm sure it will be crushed come morning, but for now I want to believe we can turn our frustration with B'Ni into the power source for a giant city-mecha to squish her.

>>3640944
>Ya know. I went and had a fridge-think of the logical conclusion to Isabelle's insane intention of simply camping out in the cord making Shu clones so she can play house with and it's downright creepy/scary/sad.
Yeah, that sounds pretty plausible. B'Ni's never actually going to be happy, her plan was always crazy. Going to make for a spooky final level, that's for sure.

>>3640982
you think what you want, but honestly i just want to let this get over with and move on, not drag it out no matter what it might accomplish.

plus i just cant see it working. not in time to stop her from leaving at least.

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>>3640944
That is kind of what i imagined as well and as we fought Isabelle for the first time just before the Spiral. Our death seemed inevitable so we wanted to spite her. Now we have a chance to get out of this.

If we could expand the City or move it we could literally bring a titan to attack the Cord and Isabelle later on.

>>3640944
>it may be because it's 2 am, but somehow I feel that this city might be a really, really, good base of operations if we're going to need a fallback point. Shame about the anti-skintalker ghosts.

If we can get rid of our small ghost problem which we are not gonna be able to do for quite a time
If it is even possible to get rid of the problem, its quite possibly that we would have to sooth the ghosts before being able to dissipate them.

>>3640982
I would like to fire that particular gun. Turn the entire City into a walking Titan that rips itself out of the Ground of the crucible to march to war against Isabelle on top of the Cord and rip it open with claw and plasma>pic related

>>3641008
>If we could expand the City or move it we could literally bring a titan to attack the Cord and Isabelle later on.
>titan class
Anon. That ain't titan class. The City's too big to be called a "titan". It's probably Behemoth class, or even Leviathan class when it comes to size.
And this city is somehow either in the Earth's mantle, or several hundred miles beneath the Earth's surface. It's a huge distance for a city to dig/climb up to topside.

>>3641022
I was using Titan a general catch all for massive creatures/constructs without using the correct classification. The city would be absolutely massive i agree

If i can reference the description of Almath
>The city that extends far into the underground horizon is a thing of imperial majesty, bronzed spires and ornate homes comprising a vast, impossibly regal kingdom. The sky is a mottled blend of glowing orange biomass and rippling stone, a baroque imitation of a dark-streaked evening sky, the blackened rock overhead resembling rain-swelled clouds rolling across the horizon.

The city got down her somehow through the Biomass. It can be brought back up. Maybe it could become a wormlike creature that burrows itself up and then transforms on the surface into a more combat effective form.

It does not have to be that fast either.
The Admin is practicly out of the game and Isabelle will have no interest in meddeling with us for quite a while, so we might have the time to do it.

Maybe by taking a part of the city topside we could plant a seed that would give us a surface Almath in time or allows us to teleport it topside

>>3641008
>>3641072
as i told the other Anon, id much prefer to just leave this behind. at this point the less to do with this city, the better.

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>>3639791
I didn't think that would turn out that way at all. It was what I was hoping for last vein but to see it happen...

>>3639791
>"I saw into Sam's memories recently. She hated being in love. Because of her mother, she associated it with losing control. So when she realized you were in love with her, she was terrified, and chose to stay 'in control' rather than open up her heart to you. Her mother and the suitors she brought home made her see love as a weakness to be exploited."
>"if...if it still doesn't matter to you...if you still want to kill me... then do it. Do it now. But leave my family alone. They have no part in this."

I just feel like she should know. I'm sure part of what lead her down her current path is not knowing why Sam turned on her like that, as much as the actual betrayal itself.

The problem now is how do we get Gina back? That's my reason I'm pissed we couldn't stop her, and I don't want to wait until the end of the quest to get her back.

>>3641159
>I just feel like she should know. I'm sure part of what lead her down her current path is not knowing why Sam turned on her like that, as much as the actual betrayal itself.
I just feel like she shouldn't know. There is no point to telling her this. It's not going to talk her down or make her change her ways. And she certainly doesn't deserve any closure this might give her. Don't tell her anything about Sam, it's completely pointless. All it does is make Shu look weak by trying to appease the monster, and let's not give B'Ni the satisfaction.

>The problem now is how do we get Gina back? That's my reason I'm pissed we couldn't stop her, and I don't want to wait until the end of the quest to get her back.
Here are the ways we can get Gina back, as the situation stands: 1. Wait until the epilogue, after we've killed Final Boss B'Ni. 2. B'Ni giving us some sort of mocking mercy, thereby denying us agency. 3. A deus ex machina happening, thereby denying us agency.

>>3641269
You have a problem anon.

And it's not about whether she deserves anything, and neither is it about looking weak or appeasing her, especially when a common vote right now is to let her do what she wants to us while begging her to leave the rest of the party be. I'm giving her that knowledge because it's the right thing to do and there's also no point in not telling her either. Especially if Shu is assuming she'll die here.

>Here are the ways we can get Gina back, as the situation stands: 1. Wait until the epilogue, after we've killed Final Boss B'Ni. 2. B'Ni giving us some sort of mocking mercy, thereby denying us agency. 3. A deus ex machina happening, thereby denying us agency.
I'll take lack of agency, as annoying as it is, if it ends the "Gina is trapped in B'ni's head" subplot. I can handle having Isabelle and/or Mother's body as the final boss for that really meaningful final challenge even if it was done in a pretty railroad-y way, but that first option is the worst one out of the three. It's best that we can move forward.

>>3641276
>And it's not about whether she deserves anything, and neither is it about looking weak or appeasing her, especially when a common vote right now is to let her do what she wants to us while begging her to leave the rest of the party be. I'm giving her that knowledge because it's the right thing to do and there's also no point in not telling her either.
I don't see how it's the right thing to do. Seriously, I'm not getting it. What moral obligation can we possible have to B'Ni after all this? But even if we did have any, do you honestly think she cares about Sam anymore?

>I'll take lack of agency, as annoying as it is, if it ends the "Gina is trapped in B'ni's head" subplot. I can handle having Isabelle and/or Mother's body as the final boss for that really meaningful final challenge even if it was done in a pretty railroad-y way, but that first option is the worst one out of the three. It's best that we can move forward.
Sure. But I was just giving you our options. Option one sucks, but it's the only one we can rely on. The other two are out of our hands.

>>3641269
I have to agree with >>3641276
opinion
Getting Gina back would finally end this shit with us having to worry about her. I am fine with getting her back even if it takes the agency over it away from us.

Even if we only get back Gina and no one else it would give us back a dedicated Neuromancer. And it would give us still some investment since we would still have to save everyone else from Isabelles Head and then also whichever similacrum she created to sate her desires.
Isabelle is so strong that we most likely have no other chance to get her back. I am sure if we back Isabelle into a corner for long enough she would sooner annihalte herself before allowing Shu to take back Gina

I also like the Megacorporation Idea i had last Vein ever more. We build our own Cord based on a fast Food Empire and then just walk up to Isabelles Backjard, knock at her door, rip it out and bash her over the head with it for being an insufferable bitch

>>3641159
I really would not bring Sam any more into this than is needed leave her out completely. We really do not need Isabelle angry at us by bringing up Sam and giving her the Feeling we are trying to manipulate her

>>3641289
I really would not bring Sam any more into this than is needed leave her out completely. We really do not need Isabelle angry at us by bringing up Sam and giving her the Feeling we are trying to manipulate her
You give a better reason, so fine. I'll save that speech for her death's door state of clarity whenever that happens in the quest.

>>3641276
>it's the right thing to do
no, its really not.

>the final boss for that really meaningful final challenge.
Isabelle is about the least meaningful and most boring option for a final boss. a clich'e highschool drama would be more interesting than her at this point, even the characters in those would cringe at how tiring and boring she has become.

>>3641159
>>3641287
>>3641289
honestly our best hope is that Isabelle no longer wants anyone tagging along with her in her head and no longer has any reason to care about us even when it comes to revenge. im sick of losing agency, but everything related to that and these plotlines is fucked anyways so sure if it gets it over with whatever. id still of preferred to gain or lose Gina in a way that felt like it was up to us to do, but now thats highly improbable.

(Gentlemen, considering I’ve written and re-written the next post half a dozen times by this point, I’m afraid I’m a little out of sorts and continuing the Vein in my current state would be ill-advised at best and disastrous at worst. I have a small update planned that would be best left for this evening, given the day’s mounting workload and the need to take a step back and look at things after I've had a little time to process things. Suffice to say, I appreciate your honesty and patience while I work through how to proceed, and I’ll keep you informed accordingly. I hope your day goes well, one and all.)

>>3641642
Alright take your time. I prefer Quality over Quantity

Take care not to work yourself to hard it helps no one if you push yourself to much

>>3641642
take your time, both to do what you need at work and for the Quest.

>>3641642
Do take that opportunity. Take all the time you you want. You DEFINITELY need the time and the time away from this quest to reset your perspective and approach this from a fresh new angle. Only do so when you're ready.

>I have a small update planned that would be best left for this evening.
Don't rush yourself. You will need more time than you think you need. Focus on getting your own ducks in line first and take care of yourself first and foremost before you come back to working through how you'll proceed.
Rush jobs will not be accepted.
Besides, Veins like this have lasted up to a week before falling off the board.
We have been very patient with you and will continue to be patient with you.

Now go work on your irl job and put bodyhorror on the backburner so you can reset your perspective with a fresh state of mind. But only if you are ready.

>>3641642
Ooph. I'm sorry to hear you've got a heavy workload today. Well, take all the time that you need, BHOP. See you later.

>>3641642
Well hey, I trust you.
Take your time and see you then.

>>3641648
>>3641655
>>3641660
>>3641720
>>3641748
(Thank you very, very much. I appreciate it immensely, and have a good work day, everyone.)

>>3641769
>homebase slides in from the archives
Wow, there was a ride. Hey BHOP, thanks for a lovely game! Course I land right on a cliff hanger. Love how youve blended in so many literary and media references flawlessly while maintaining such a meaty atmosphere, plot and charecters. Peak bamboozles too.


Offhand comment. What if Shu's hive isnt really bugs but the group shes.building around and within herself. Could Sam's loss of a family snd stability is what drove her choice of core and Sam is just a measure of Shus corruption. All daughters go mad eventually, why hasnt Shu shown any degredation? Sure weve only been alive for a short time, but we have been through a lot. Is Sam manifesting is her measure of it? Furthermore, why dont her allies show more corruption? Could it be that Shu has already eaten them, in a sense, and that they are a part of her now, some more than others. Maybe corruption is just a result of being injured and reforming over and over. Mother is alien and the planet had to be converted. I wouldnt be surprised if she did it wrong and gave the world cancer.

I know B'ni is the most pressing concern right now but this is meatworld fleshpocalypse. Nothing is sunshine and rainbows and any you see are likely a gout of blood fracturing the light from an unholy mother.

>>3641802
Hi, welcome aboard! You came in at a bit of a weird point, but I'm glad to have a new poster regardless.

>What if Shu's hive isnt really bugs but the group shes.building around and within herself. Could Sam's loss of a family snd stability is what drove her choice of core
It's quite likely. All the Cores are supposed to reflect the Daughter's issues in some way. The Crucible probably intended for Trypophilic Hive to be a manifestation of Sam's need for control, but with Shu being the one to wield it it represents her desire for family.

>All daughters go mad eventually, why hasnt Shu shown any degredation?
Oh, that's just because we eat regularly. The madness comes from hunger, it's Daughters who stay in one place and don't get access to enough food that go insane. The party are wanderers and adventurers, they're always getting into situations where there's something to eat.

>Furthermore, why dont her allies show more corruption? Could it be that Shu has already eaten them, in a sense, and that they are a part of her now, some more than others. Maybe corruption is just a result of being injured and reforming over and over.
Well, I doubt that having to regenerate constantly is great for you, but from what we know the corruption is actually tied to level. With the exception of Unnatural Predator skills, you get only minor corruption until the skill hits level ten. So none of our party show any corruption just because they're not there yet. Shu's the only party member with a skill at ten or above, and so far all it's done is give her a bit of chitin plating along her spine.

>>3641802
(Welcome, Anon! Thank you so much for reading, and I'm glad you decided to post when you did. I hope you enjoy the rest of the quest, and thank you again for participating!)

>>3641802
hey, welcome. you joined at a kinda iffy point, but glad to see a new face regardless.

>What if Shu's hive isnt really bugs but the group shes.building around and within herself.
its funny you say that, but that is exactly why me and numerous other Anons were so hesitant to upgrade her Hive for awhile, because we didn't want her to basically start mind eating her friends on accident, which is what several factors were making us think might happen. thankfully we were wrong. actually, the 'choice' part of Shus Hive really hasn't upgraded much at all, which feels kinda weird. or, rather, now that we have seen more choices, her fools choice upgrading at all feels weird. most other fools choices seem to basically just be a powerful augment or passive ability, Shus was a outright tied in augment that upgraded...but only for like 2 levels then just stopped. im gonna chalk it up to the fact BHOP ended up adding Augments and stuff later, hence that stuff got into an awkward position like Recursive and some other stuff of Shus.

>All daughters go mad eventually,
not true, it is entirely possible to avoid it til the end, its just difficult. if you have a healthy mind and consume often enough, you have no worries.

>why dont her allies show more corruption?
mentally? same reasons. healthy minds from the group and regular consumption. the physical corruption? well...they do have some. Julia technically has no skin, her skin is a construct and not actually a true part of her. she als has extra hair on her body and longer nails from Badgers. Dorian being liquid apparently counts as part of his physical corruption. Amara is also liquid and has cat ears. Rath....well she has that endoskeleton that shows up semi-easily, but otherwise she seems fine. Shu has a giant stomach mouth and hexagonal plates on her back. for most classes corruption doesn't show up til level 10, so we so far dont have many Abilities that give it much if at all at lower levels, Badgers the one exception.

>>3641835
>With the exception of Unnatural Predator skills, you get only minor corruption until the skill hits level ten.
well, its the only one that gives heavy corruption right out the back, but other Classes and i think individual abilities can still start giving it much sooner. Flesh Artisan abilities BHOP said often have high and lower starting points aswell.

>>3641879

Thanks for the session dear BHOP! Don´t worry too much about the backlash, this quest is still the best one I have ever seen (and I have read quite a lot of them).

I think that the problem is that we have been facing unstoppable foes for a bit too long. It is one thing to feel that you are facing something FAR above your level, but that doesn´t mean that the over-leveled encounter is invulnerable.
You can either escape an impossible match, and feel a sense of accomplishment when you escape from it by the skin of your teeth (even if you technically "lost"), or feel a incredible rush when careful tactics & lady luck blessing your dice makes you win something that the DM thought you couldn´t tackle.

What has happened today may not be railroading. I, for one, have a HARD time countering B´ni. That mobility and utterly predatory skill unnerve me, and I have a hard time thinking of clever plans whenever she is near. I make mistakes, and I can´t help but think "Whelp, we are DOOMED" in a C3P0 voice.
I guess that it doesn´t help that we played as her during the interludes and saw her in all her ruthless glory.

We are a trickster party specialized in planting traps, attrition warfare at distance and fleshcape battlefield control...
The opposite of what B´ni does. She is the inescapable hammer, a speedster that closes up for hit & run deathstrikes and that carefully avoids battlefields that may be terraformed for mobility kills.
She is our fucking Nemesis, built for our ruin... and I CAN´T think of a way to beat her.
.........................
To sum up: I freeze up when I am facing B´ni. Because she is a problem that, tactically speaking, lies in my cognitive blind spot. How many of you anons feel the same?

Now my problem with B´ni is that I have felt UTTERLY powerless in each encounter with her.
Honestly, BHOP.......could we ever have defeated her?
In the first encounter, we lost a family member in the flesh and many in dreamscape daughters.
And now... it is even worse. Now she feels like she has acquired unlimited power, something utterly unbeatable. If she decides to end us right there, right now, she WILL.... and my feeling is that there isn´t even a 0.00001% chance that we would get even a single of our family members to escape.

It would help a LOT to know if we COULD have beat her both before tree deletion and in this encounter, or if both events were scripted as our defeats for the good of the quest.
My point is:
a) Did we lose because we deserved it?
b) Was it because B´ni played her cards better and outsmarted us?
c) B´ni had to win, for the plot´s sake?

Sorry, but an answer to these questions would help a lot. You are an amazing DM, the best I have ever come in contact with, and I reiterate it again.
And if the verdict is "you lost because X-y-z reasons, git gud", I will welcome it... and train so that we may win next time.

>>3642374
>How many of you anons feel the same?
well, honestly this time BHOP lead us on to feel like we had an actual shot to stop her, then basically made it feel like we never did, even outright intervening to try and convince us NOT to go after her true self, ruining any chance we had of stopping her. so i dont fucking know, i THOUGHT we did, but intentional or not, now it feels like we never did and it was all pointless to even try. as ive said, if defeat is what we earned through our own actions mattering, im willing to face it. its just things have felt like our actions dont really matter at all for a bit now, and BHOP once has outright kinda admitted to it, and otherwise hasn't refuted it, only said it wasn't his intention to make it feel like that and hes doing what he is to get the game to the point he actually wants it to be at.

and at this point, fine, if it gets us past this Arc and anything related to it, to never visit these points again or as little as we can, just move it along then. though im not gonna be able to get over him making Isabelle not just stick around, but making her the final boss almost guaranteed, and it is his absolute worse decision he could've made in my opinion, that will bring down the entirety of the rest of the quest knowing thats what its leading to.

otherwise, i feel like
>We are a trickster party specialized in planting traps, attrition warfare at distance and fleshcape battlefield control...
>The opposite of what B´ni does. She is the inescapable hammer, a speedster that closes up for hit & run deathstrikes and that carefully avoids battlefields that may be terraformed for mobility kills.

is a bit wrong. i mean, its not, only that we do have plenty of just plain, simple, brutally efficient beat em up options, and we have to great success used them too. though Rath is the one that focuses on that the most, we dont just rely on tricks, both as a party and mostly as individuals we actually have really good staying power to just dig in our heels and take the old fashioned approach. i think we actually have done a really good job balancing ourselves as a party, and mostly as individual members, between having enough adaptability, tricks, and old fashioned staying power. only Amara and Gina honestly are kinda one trick ponies, with Dorian being built to avoid his weaknesses in staying put heavily, though his problem is Health, not actual abilities that could lend to digging ones heels in.

i see where you are coming from though, we really do love our tricks and out-of-the-box tactics, and our party has alot of ways to pull them off. its certainly without our doubt our focal point, even Rath has her options, i just think its not all we have and we have done a good job making sure it isnt.

>>3642374
>To sum up: I freeze up when I am facing B´ni. Because she is a problem that, tactically speaking, lies in my cognitive blind spot. How many of you anons feel the same?

The Problem i have with Isabelle is that she has been ruthlessly powerleveled and overtaken our entire group in a matter of hours (again) after we deleted her greatest assets, at a heavy cost no less.

I do not have the paralysis you speak off for more than a few seconds(as far as i could tell anyway) until my mind turns into overdrive to find a way to grind her into dust, but I always think: "What will she pull out next, that we had no chance of seeing it coming, to pull herself out of this one"
Maybe that is because i myself tend to play hit and run characters that can bulldoze oposition in many rpgs and Armies in Wargames that specialise in jsut bulldozing the opposition, so i kind of unnderstand the mindset of Isabelle a lot better than i understand the tactical grind and battlefield control that we employ with Shu, as the "just hit her till she dies" tactic seemed massively unlikely to succeed.

I have to admit that i am probably still angry about this entire debakel. When it came up that there was no Biomass here in the Arena is was like okay that changes things for the worst. We could not rely one our usual tacticts to defeat enemis. I still believed we had a chance and tried my best with everyone here to find the best possible solution...... It just felt kind of pointless to pour so much crative energy into coming up with a plan just to have it stop short because we could not stop Isabelle from Consuming a corpse, which until now never appeared to be so quick to be nearly instantaniou, at least in what it appeared to be to me

I think i started rambling......

Hey OP. I don’t normally comment on the quests I’m reading, but after skimming the feedback you’re getting and your reaction to it, I felt that I needed to pitch in and say I really, really like the quest. And that the negativity is just blown out of proportions like there’s no tomorrow.

Keep up the tremendously good work, and do try to ignore the nay sayers. Most of the feedback I read is just bull.

>>3640001

Supporting this. BUT I would add 4 contingency actions. I have tought this carefully, and I think that there is a way to survive this situation, should Isabelle decide to TPK us.

And make NO mistake, it is still a very probable course of action. It is very coherent with her past actions....and she may go for it.

After the speech acknowledging her victory, as voted by anons:

> ACTION1: Prep Escher Gear for party teleport. It is near-instant & undetectable. This denies party kill if she goes for it, and we may not need everyone free & in contact to prompt it. ANd we are NOT in combat, so that should make things even easier. Hundred-armed EXPLOSION action to grab party if needed for escape teleport.

> ACTION2: Ask her for Gina & co if she has the neuromantic & phantasmal counduit levels required. I think she may have the neccesary loadout for this, since she needed some of it for the clones and Mother must have been loaded on those skillsets.

> ACTION3: If ACTION2 fails, allow neuromantic & emphatic connection and tell her ALL we know about Sam. Offer to trade SAM for our family members again....if this fails, ACTION1 if we are endangered, or else wait until she releases us on her own accord.

> ACTION4: If Escher gear teleport escape fails and B´ni is out for TPK, break the anti-empathic walls by any means neccessary (Hundred-armed burst or Neuromantic hack into November, THEN AUTUMN PROTOCOL) and let Almath fury manifest swarm her while we try to make an escape.

What do you think? I think that decent chances on teleport escape gives us some options so that we need not to rely on B-ni´s mercy.
And, to be honest? I would rather escape a deathtrap on my own terms than to be at the utter mercy of her. She is so small and petty, for christ sake.
She MURDERED her lifelong friend (Gina), tearing her limb to limb slowly and painfully, JUST TO SPITE US. For me, that was the moral event horizon. If she had killed us, ok. She had some reasons to have a bone for us. But Gina?

What kind of maniac does that? I mean, I would feel better if she acts like the maniac she is now, instead of suddenly doing like nothing had happened.
In such circumstances, a successful teleport escape would feel like a victory for the ages.

>>3642374
>To sum up: I freeze up when I am facing B´ni. Because she is a problem that, tactically speaking, lies in my cognitive blind spot. How many of you anons feel the same?
I did the first time, because that was such an "oh shit" moment that I wasn't thinking straight. We did not use our abilities to their full. This time around, though, I think we had things well planned-out. We were responding calmly and rationally and working to negate her advantages while maximizing our own. And then things went wrong all of a sudden.

>>3642434
Well, sure, of course it seems overblown to you. Because you're not actually playing. So for agency to be arbitrarily taken away from the players doesn't matter to you, because you never had any in the first place. Don't talk shit about things you're not actually involved in, anon.

>>3642418
>I think i started rambling......
nothing wrong with that, getting your thoughts out is healthy and it is clearly a big point of contention what has happened, so nothing wrong with discussing it.

>The Problem i have with Isabelle is that she has been ruthlessly powerleveled and overtaken our entire group in a matter of hours (again) after we deleted her greatest assets, at a heavy cost no less.
another very good point. theres just too much going on here and that built up to Anons disappointment with this outcome. if it was just one or two things, i think like in the past maybe no one would be happy, but might be less...outward in their disagreement. but i think its the fact its not the first time people have had iffy feelings about something stacking on top of other issues, minor or not, that accumulated to something this major playing out like this just not sitting well.

>It just felt kind of pointless to pour so much crative energy into coming up with a plan just to have it stop short
yeah, again, i understand that way too well. even the First fight against Isabelle where we lost Gina felt like our actions had more weight to them, but maybe the fact we never were even given a reason to expect we had any hope of in even some form winning skewed how we viewed it, i dunno...

>which until now never appeared to be so quick to be nearly instantaniou, at least in what it appeared to be to me
oh no, this is an EXCELLENT point i meant to bring up. its very much been heavily implied Consuming corpses takes at least a little bit of time, to the point trying to do it during a battle could be a death sentence, and OUTRIGHT was given to us as an option outright said to take enough time to possibly matter after we defeated the statues, hence why we didn't do it. and now Isabelle can just touch Mothers corpse and get it in a snap? no explanation given either. fuck i literally did not try and have anyone consume her corpse because in part we had, under no circumstances, been given no reason to assume it could happen that fast. maybe Mother was pulling strings, fine, but if so that just lends itself more to the feeling we never had any chance here.

>>3642442
I'm up for trying to escape on our own merits, but I don't think we're going to be given the chance. Still worth a shot, though. But I'd leave out trying to tell her about Sam. As has been pointed out, she will be at best uninterested in Sam and possibly react very negatively. So let's skip step three.

>>3642450
>oh no, this is an EXCELLENT point i meant to bring up. its very much been heavily implied Consuming corpses takes at least a little bit of time, to the point trying to do it during a battle could be a death sentence, and OUTRIGHT was given to us as an option outright said to take enough time to possibly matter after we defeated the statues, hence why we didn't do it. and now Isabelle can just touch Mothers corpse and get it in a snap? no explanation given either. fuck i literally did not try and have anyone consume her corpse because in part we had, under no circumstances, been given no reason to assume it could happen that fast. maybe Mother was pulling strings, fine, but if so that just lends itself more to the feeling we never had any chance here.
Not to mention that B'Ni apparently got all of Mother's old abilities, too. That's not how consumption works, she should get level one in all of them and have to put the rest of the levels into raising existing skills. So B'Ni's breaking two rules about how consuming works. If there had been some mention of a skill or Relic she had acquired to enable her to break these rules, then fine. I'd be okay with that. But we asked Gina about B'Ni's capabilities and no such enhancement was mentioned.

>>3642434
>several people who have been here and given their time, commitment, and efforts to the Quest since it began having issues with the quests direction means nothing.
normally i ignore people like you, and hate pulling this card, but shut it. you have no room to talk. reading and participating in something are two massively different things that involve different efforts, and bring about different feelings. feeling like things you have worked for over numerous sessions, even Veins, are being cheated doesn't come from nowhere nor mean nothing, especially when its numerous people having issues with it, albeit maybe to different levels, but its far from just one person feeling at leas disappointed in the outcome, and all of them showing signs of not being newcomers either. even if you had just started participating in this thread and had this happen, id argue you at least have a right to feel disappointed in the outcome, and your criticisms not mean nothing.

>>3642442
i appreciate the support, though voting ended like over half a day ago now i think, heh.

i wouldn't call that a 'speech' though, or us directly acknowledging her victory, just us...trying to do what we always do, and protect our family.

>ACTION 1
we need direct physical contact for that, and everyone is spread out. she would kill us before we even grab hold of the first person, let alone all, even WITH Hundred Handed.

>ACTION 2
im just hoping she doesn't want them and will give them to us anyways, but im not sure outright asking will make her any more or less likely to give them to us.

>ACTION 3
honestly feels pointless, and i still doubt trying to convince her about anything related to Sam will do much but piss her off more, if she even cares at all anymore.

>ACTION 4
doubt we would have the chance but as a last ditch 'fuck you' move,it does have merit.

i get where your thinking and ideas are coming from, but Isabelle said it herself, she could reach the top of the cord now in minutes, and i dont think shes lying. shes...just gotten a power boost we literally cannot overcome. and its frustrating. id love for things, even our death, to be more on our terms, but it just doesnt feel like anything is or could be and at this point i just want to move on from this, its clear OOC at least this isnt going to be the end unless we outright try to kill her maybe, so i just want to do what makes sense IC, aka try and protect our family and bring her wrath onto us alone, and move on.

>>3642459
>oh no, this is an EXCELLENT point i meant to bring up. its very much been heavily implied Consuming corpses takes at least a little bit of time, to the point trying to do it during a battle could be a death sentence, and OUTRIGHT was given to us as an option outright said to take enough time to possibly matter after we defeated the statues, hence why we didn't do it. and now Isabelle can just touch Mothers corpse and get it in a snap? no explanation given either. fuck i literally did not try and have anyone consume her corpse because in part we had, under no circumstances, been given no reason to assume it could happen that fast. maybe Mother was pulling strings, fine, but if so that just lends itself more to the feeling we never had any chance here.
>Not to mention that B'Ni apparently got all of Mother's old abilities, too. That's not how consumption works, she should get level one in all of them and have to put the rest of the levels into raising existing skills. So B'Ni's breaking two rules about how consuming works. If there had been some mention of a skill or Relic she had acquired to enable her to break these rules, then fine. I'd be okay with that. But we asked Gina about B'Ni's capabilities and no such enhancement was mentioned.

I think that was the thing that was similar to what Gina left us with ACCEPTANCE so she got all of Mothers Power.

She also so far only received mothers lexicon. the skintalker powers are actually pretty independent of the level they are on. The most important bit are the Words. Isabelle has the BIO and Acts to use all the spells and has Mothers knowledge how to use them

She did not necessarily have to break the rules about how aquiering new powers worked

>>3642442
>She MURDERED her lifelong friend (Gina), tearing her limb to limb slowly and painfully, JUST TO SPITE US. For me, that was the moral event horizon. If she had killed us, ok. She had some reasons to have a bone for us. But Gina?
>What kind of maniac does that? I mean, I would feel better if she acts like the maniac she is now, instead of suddenly doing like nothing had happened.
yeah, ive been morally done with Isabelle for awhile now. i just dont understand how Anons dont realize shes a bad person, and it has nothing to do with the crucible. good people dont hide corpses and bash others heads in with lava lamps. Sam wasn't by any means a good person, and yeah in a way she did kiiiinda deserve something, but she still very much had not actually physically harmed or killed anyone, so i do think its fair to say getting murdered might of been a step too far.

>>3642459
i mean, yeah. she still would be 'mother level' in actually levels, but it does seem odd she got them in what seems like a unique way. like i said, i think Mother threw some tokens at her corpse to alter it, or the corpse itself, oddly, might of had something on it that altered how it was consumed, it just feels like we should've been given some sign of that being the case.

>>3642469
actually fair point that if she somehow got the lexicon separate it wouldn't be level based, but still feels odd she somehow had access to them, without Mother telling her them, which clearly was not the case.

>>3642469
>She also so far only received mothers lexicon. the skintalker powers are actually pretty independent of the level they are on. The most important bit are the Words. Isabelle has the BIO and Acts to use all the spells and has Mothers knowledge how to use them
I don't know. They're somewhat independent, but not completely. The narrative seems to be implying that she has the ability to wield the Lexicon at the same level that Mother could when she just commanded all of Almath to die, which is a degree of power not linked just to knowing the right words. Like, if we gave Amara the same spell I doubt she'd be able to just command the entire city to die. I think she got the whole thing. But I suppose you're right that it could be like the ACCEPTANCE option, Mother deliberately giving her all the levels. Still wouldn't explain how she absorbed them so fast, but it would explain how she got all of them. So fine, objection partially withdrawn.

>>3642434

I agree that the quest is great, and that it doesn´t invalidate the great work. I also have the utmost appreciation for BHOP.

It´s just that this is so anticlimatic, at so many levels...like other anons said, we REALLY were eager to get up to this, so excited, so pumped up on anti-B´ni plans & contingencies....

And then we get TOTALLED. Again. The problem is, as other anons more explained at length above, is that we don´t even know if we would have ever been able to win.

And I have to say that B´ni now gets to be dragon in chief... and MOTHER seems reduced to utter irrelevance. That wouldn´t, and shouldn´t be bad... but we trade the still misterious foe for one we intimately know... and which we won´t be able to ambush, chase or fight on our terms now that she will have a lair on prime chord tower real estate.

B´ni as last climatic boss? I would rather have faced her on our terms in the fleshcape, and either bring her into the fold before ascending or fought to the bitter death.

The last loose end before standing against the crucible. That would have been poetic.

Now we get to fight an enterenched position atop the chord. If we already got a hard deal because she always fought us on her terms in uncovenient terrain for us (see this blasted un-terraformable tower), imagine the WW1 trench nightmare we will be facing in the chord.

I don´t know. Feels like we are cursed every time we go against her, and I just WANT to know where we fucked up.....
And then make a godamn SHADOWRUN against her. Something for the ages, next to oldman Henderson, that makes us feel that, may it be bitter defeat or victory, was our work.

Not being AGAIN at the mercy of an utterly unbeatable being. One so powerful that not even escape is an option.

I am NOT against defeat. I am NOT against death, even true death of beloved party members.
Such is life & the will of the dice.

But right now we may not even ATTEMPT escape. We are against the LITERAL voice of god. And knowing we may not even attempt to run away and save even a SINGLE party member from this...

It hurts. I like the quest, I like the party members, and even having the CHANCE of B´ni going full psycho on them the way she went on GINA makes my blood boil

>>3642485
and another fair point. she seems to be implied to have stuff akin to Amaras Relic, boosting the potency of spells and perhaps their costs even being negated, which just getting the lexicon wouldn't do. i suppose it is a fair point though, Mother probably had a Halo and thus could do an ACCEPTANCE, it just still feels like it was out of the blue a bit and that the consumption happened way too fast.

>>3642490
>Now we get to fight an enterenched position atop the chord. If we already got a hard deal because she always fought us on her terms in uncovenient terrain for us (see this blasted un-terraformable tower), imagine the WW1 trench nightmare we will be facing in the chord.
I dont want to do something like WW1, its gonna be more than hell. If she keeps Gina she is probably gonna use her as a lure in the Cord to attack us mentally.
I immagine she is gonna have a lot of power up there. I imagine something like Dantes Inferno where she shows up with Gina in tow to taunt us and tries to break our and her spirit by twisting our deeds by showing them without context.

And i would absolutely hate that.........

We are not facing the Voice of God. We are facing a god of the Voice. We are facing what amounts to a dragonborn at full power with the entire lexicon of Powerwords at their fingertips and hacks active to set the cooldown to neglible.

Your not the only one whose blood was boiling after reading the last update.......... mine has cooled down over a long day of writing relics...... for a future that may never come to pass. Well such is life, I can say we tried so hard and got so far but in the the end it didnt seem to matter, we had little influence over how and when to engage Isabelle. Fighting her in the Fleshscape would have been far better i agree

>>3642464

I agree on the fact that it is best to try not to rouse her anger and get past this...but I think that it is utterly irresponsible from us to rely on her good graces. We have a family. We have charges, and we WILL protect them succesfully, no matter the cost to our person.
The contingency ACTIONS 1-4 I suggested are backups in case she doesn´t feel merciful.
I agree with you that it is best to let things run their course, even if she aims to kill Shu alone, but should she try to kill our family, the contingencies should be activated.

Now on a more serious tone, TELEPORT ESCAPE contingencies SHOULD work. We are using HUNDRED-HANDED, which is INSTANT, to make a biomass EXPLOSION spreading TOWARDS the group. No finesse, no grabbing even: Just a raw explosion of BIO, almost as much as we got, contacting people & triggering immediately the Escher gear.

No complicated plan; just a rush that goes faster that even muscle fiber contraction speed does. Not even B´ni should be fast enough to react. Enough bullshit. She wouldn´t even have the time to cast a SKINTALKING spell, that´s at least 3-4 seconds to say the words.
Sorry to pull that card, but I have a Phd in Molecular Biology. A burst of speed that goes from zero-to-kill UNDER 2 seconds from a resting position 10 meters away from her nearest target is IMPOSSIBLE.
It is inconsistent even for what we have seen of the Crucible powers & biology, and as I have explained, goes against key muscle fiber & neurologic properties. Isabelle is AT REST, and won´t be able to REACT fast enough.
She is a formidable opponent, but NOT that powerful. And the "minutes till reaching the top of the Chord" is bullshit, and you know it. More like 3-5 hours, AT BEST.

Is there a VERY significant risk to pull this move? Yes, that´s why it is a CONTINGENCY, not the main plan, which is what you proposed: accept our loss, and surrender control.
But the danger of TELEPORT ESCAPE would rather be on the lines of her grabbing us and running us through once the TELEPORT is ONGOING, not preventing the activation. And if she follows us, we grapple her and TELEPORT AWAY fro our party.

I REFUSE this overpowered, spoiled psychopathic brat to end our family. If she goes for them (and she WILL be tempted to do it, remember Gina), HUNDRED-HANDED + Escher teleport WILL WIN THE DAY.
I consider the fact Shu will most likely die a perfectly acceptable price.

So hope for the best, prepare for the worst, but NEVER surrender agency. We are not done here, and our death WILL be on our terms.

(Hello, Gentlemen.)

(Consider voting retroactive and continuously open for the next fourteen hours, with posting to resume in roughly fifteen. To those of you that offered words of encouragement, I sincerely thank you. It was a rough day and I hope you know it means a lot. It gets tough sometimes to separate opinions on one's creations from one's own self-perception, and I'd be lying if I said the negativity didn't get me down for a while as I interpreted it more as an attack on me as a whole than on an aspect of something I've made in the process of trying to become a better writer. I understand and respect the dissatisfied opinions presented throughout the thread, and I hope you're willing to grant me a window of opportunity to prove that I have not been so foolish as to make the same mistake twice in back-to-back Veins. I'll be able to answer many of the questions posed by you in a far more spoiler-free manner at the end of the Vein, but for now I will be charging onwards, and I hope you'll be willing to follow and take the reigns when you have control.)

(Gentlemen, two final notes before I leave you for the evening. First; I do not like to leave Chekhov's guns unfired. Second; If you look at the nature of this place, its ghoulish inhabitants, and your encounters with them up to this point, in addition to the preparations you've made with unexpected allies, I hope you realize that the deck is absolutely stacked by deliberate design, as it were.)

(Whether or not it's against you is a matter of perspective.)

>>3642637
im sorry but you are simply probably just wrong. i dont think her reaching the top within near that timeframe is bullshit, we have instant teleportation AND have people who dont teleport but move at speeds that may aswell be. we also know Halos and other options CAN do instant, less than a second counters, and its VERY possible she has one, if not is just so high level she has similar. whatever physics you think is at work here, we HAVE seen numerous instances beyond what you are saying.

i mean sure, fine, fucking whatever, we can try the teleport but dont bring limits into this we very much know dont exist, it wont do us any good. shhe could be on top of us before we even can think to start summoning the Hands if she so chooses, in less than less than a second, its just a matter of if she wants to.

>>3642658
i honestly dont know what to say at this point, only id prefer you to just move things along instead of trying to make up for the mistake or something. at this point Isabelle just leaving would probably be what i want, rather than trying to drag this out any longer, regardless of possible outcomes. im tired of this section and the sooner we can move on and never touch these aspects again the better.

>>3642658

Dear BHOP, as I stated above, it is always a delight to attend to your veins. Thanks for your kind words and take as much time as you need. You are an excellent writer and true gentleman, and nothing shall ever invalidate that.

Please consider that any negative opinions are only proportional to the excellent quality of your work, and never override it; and this "small backlash" only comes from a much larger delight and enjoyment sustained from more than 4 sessions of delicious foreshadowing and masterful writing & worldbuilding, never mind the wonderful 25 veins.
I am sure that as the vein concludes and explanations are given, no one will leave the thread frustrated, and even greater heights of enjoyment shall be reached. :)
I for one, always check eagerly if a new vein is open or has updated. If we didn´t love your style, we would not feel frustrated sometimes. And I think that even the most frustrated contributor has sung your praises at least 5 times before, and piled tons of text for the quest.

It is just that we grew so attached to the story & the party that now you are trying to herd very protective & clinically paranoid cats.
Cats who have decided to go to the US Marine Corps for a tour of duty, specialize in demolitions and try to recreate Perturabo´s Iron cage around their beloved surrogate family members and innocent Amara clones. And you are in the role of the veterinarian that wishes to check their meds.

"No, Ms Norris. You can disarm the 4 redundantly overlapped minefields and let go of your AR15, Amara dearest is going to be fine. Now what do you think about going out of the perimeter for a walk, mayyybe checking your meds, hmm?"
"-THAT´S WHAT ALL BASILISKS SAY! And then you get to be a stone statue for an entire schoolyear at Hogwarts!"

This comment about the "Chekhov gun unfired" makes me SMILE. I think that the following contingency in case B´ni gets violent (release Almath´s fury) may work after all.

> CONTINGENCY ACTION 4: Breach the walls to let ALMATH spectres & DREAM DAUGHTERS through. In that order:
> COMMS PRIORITY: Comm external daughters via the safest means available. Should be: Secure Crimson Cord comms to Gina > Jacklings > Empathic channel > Neuromantic skills. Instruct them to BREACH the walls nearest to the 6 thrones (symbolic value, ideal location?) ONLY if a peaceful solution cannot be reached.
> IF COMMS NOT AVAILABLE: Delay & obfuscate as much as you can. Then, LAST ditch actions if our family is in danger: KNIGHTLING/BANELING ACID EXPLOSION breach on walls > Neuromantic hack on November via stealthed Jackling and UNLEASH AUTMUN PROTOCOL ON WALLS.

Then escape on the confusion. I still recomend to avoid violence & confrontation as much as we can, and try to use B´ni´s good graces as much as we can.

>>3642658
I'm sorry if our negativity felt directed at you personally, BHOP. That was not the intent. I feel confident saying that everyone here greatly enjoys your work. Authors don't get uproar like this if their audience isn't very invested in their writing. This quest is great, we love it, that's why a dip in quality feels like such a huge contrast. You've conditioned us to have very high expectations.

That said
>I hope you're willing to grant me a window of opportunity to prove that I have not been so foolish as to make the same mistake twice in back-to-back Veins.
No, I'm not willing. I'm sorry, BHOP, I can't see there being any way to turn this around. Even if we manage to defeat B'Ni through our own actions and not by relying on some deus ex machina that would further decrease our sense of player agency (the Geists swarming her for using Mother's Skintalker power seems likely), we're still going to remember how we got to this point. This Vein is always going to be "the one where a cutscene forced us to lose to shill B'Ni as the final boss". You can't salvage this, we can either move on and forget about it or try to retcon things. Neither is a great option, but dwelling on this plot point isn't going to get us anywhere either.

>>3642658
So I got back from work, and I have to say. I expected a clusterfuck of a detail. It is nice of you to be willing to take to heart some of the opinions.
So for some advice in trying to get some good perspective in the shoes of us anons:
Go follow a quest that appeals to you. one that you also participate in. If it's already a long running quest, then just browse the archives and read them as if you were a player participant. Try to empathize with the players and figure out how they perceive a quest.

You've been a "forever DM", and you're losing the connection with the players from being entrenched in that perspective.

>Second; If you look at the nature of this place, its ghoulish inhabitants, and your encounters with them up to this point, in addition to the preparations you've made with unexpected allies, I hope you realize that the deck is absolutely stacked by deliberate design, as it were.

But the real question is to whom is it stacked against......oh....oohhhhhh.....

Bhop. You fucker mother of a DM. I see what you're getting at with your bamboozle now.

You swing us so HARD when it comes to the bamboozles that it gives us case of whiplashes. Now that I see what you're getting at, I'm honestly relieved that this isn't a "you can't thwart stage one" doomsday scenario. You fucking played us. And I'm mad and amazed.
I'm mad because you played us and legitimately thought we couldn't stop Isabelle. But I'm amazed that you're planning to give us our well deserved opportunity now that you've dropped the crucial hint that clued us in.

>>3642776
>>3642658
yeah his Anon does bring up some good points i do want to address as i do feel you deserve to hear them BHOP.

while clearly angry, i meant nothing actually personal by what i have said, and do apologize if my frustrations came off that way. while i stand by my criticisms, i do not think, or at least greatly hope, you meant anything negative by your actions, despite what the result ended up being. i think, but really honestly dont know, that in your effort to make the story engaging, fun, and keep it flowing and interesting, you accidentally maybe stepped over too far, or were forced to sacrifice a bit of certain aspect for what you thought was keeping others, but either went too far or misjudged what aspect people would prefer?

as the other Anon said, i would not feel so frustrated at this section if it was not for the quality of your writing. i cannot and will not lie that i personally feel this is your worst section and you messed up, but it wouldn't feel that way if your usual level of excellence was not so goddamned high that an honest mistake still feels like a gut punch compared to the usual. i also would not still be here or discussing things if i did not want, and think you deserve, your fair shot at moving forward, nor if i did not want us to and had hope that you could improve from this.

again, i do apologize at least in regards to i never meant for any of it to actually BE a personal attack, but at the same time i do feel the criticisms stand and as much as it has impacted me, ignoring it or not putting it down would do neither side any actual good. for what its worth, i hope we can move on from this and that your week goes well. just...maybe take the one Anons advice and be more willing to take your time as you need it, if that is indeed one of the possible issues.

>>3642681

Sorry, forgot about our resident supersonic speedster. That was gauche, my apologies. Still, I feel that probably there must be some caveats when it comes to reaction times, or this quest would get very weird, very fast.
Consider your arguments to have won, fair and square. I am trying to provide toolsets to crack this problem, and emergency teleport sounded to make the best of a worst situation... but I guess we will have to pray & see.

We should get speedster skills ASAP. Looking at B´ni success, we cannot ignore the fact that speedsters always choose the battlefield, and can only die to overwhelmingly succesful ambushes & mobility kills.

I still think that it is a good contingency if things go FUBAR and B´ni is distracted. Remember we could save Keane & Ace with HUNDRED-HANDED, and they were at terminal fall speed.

>>3642806
Gentlemen. hear me out.
>>3642817
The reason why Almath was designed like this is to keep Ozmas contained should she be revived.
And if a daughter were to take Ozmas powers, she could get there, but the City will now do everything in its disposal to either contain the daughter that has Ozma's powers or kill the daughter.

We have the support of the City and all of our dream daughters.

Yes, we may be at Isabelle's mercy for 5 entire rounds, but we can stall Isabelle here and now. The City is deliberately designed to be a Skintalker's tomb.

Open the door to the outside, ask Isabelle to use the skintalker words to free our family from the spell binds, this will immediately aggro the entire city. Even if Isabelle has 6 ACTs, she's facing an entire city of geists. And when it comes to fighting geists, the only ones who can effectively destroy them are Dream Daughters. Isabelle is without dream daughters.

>>3642837
Yeah, it's obvious that's where he's going. B'Ni took on Mother's Skintalker abilities, so she'll have inherited the Geist's rage against her. And then they'll swarm her and do a lot of damage because Daughter abilities don't work well against Geists. It's very obvious, you didn't need to explain it. And I don't care. This doesn't actually fix anything. It's just another deus ex machina, taking agency away from us in favor of a scripted cutscene. The problem is not that the outcome of this encounter was B'Ni winning, the problem is that the method for her winning was one that didn't care what we did. We were just passive observers in the process. This is the exact same thing, we might as well not even be here.

>>3642811
>You swing us so HARD when it comes to the bamboozles that it gives us case of whiplashes. Now that I see what you're getting at, I'm honestly relieved that this isn't a "you can't thwart stage one" doomsday scenario. You fucking played us. And I'm mad and amazed.
I'm mad because you played us and legitimately thought we couldn't stop Isabelle. But I'm amazed that you're planning to give us our well deserved opportunity now that you've dropped the crucial hint that clued us in.
my problem is thats not good enough. im sorry, but its not. we wanted and were lead to believe we had a shot at stopping her from even reaching the corpse, and me and other anons WANTED that chance, even if we might fail. something else doesn't make up for that, a due ex city fight isnt what i want, honestly i HATE that shit. i LOVE when a fight feels like you are standing on your own merits, your own strength and decisions, NOT some overpowered empath nonsense that turns a fight into a anime esque battle of the gods type thing, especially at lease when we have not earned that, its not OUR strength, its a plot point cities strength. that to me is just a slap in the face, and id just prefer to move on, especially as the feeling of that fight would be further ruined by him taking our agency and chance to stop her here away in the first place.

and just like this Anon said
>>3642806
>>3642658
it really is the same mistake twice, im sorry but thats what it feels like. honestly im tired of the Bamboozles, theres a limit before it just gets annoying and tiring, especially when they take away even just the feeling of agency. you said BHOP 'i dont take thing away unless i plan to give double back' but honestly? and i really do hope you read this part. honestly? stop taking things away in the first place. i dont want double back, i want our fair damn shot the first time around, and the 'doubling up' does NOT make up for it, all it does is taint it with the fact you had to trick us or outright pull away our agency in the first place to give it. im sorry, im trying to word this to where i truly mean nothing personal or anything by this, but just stop. the minute you did that the last time, was your first major mistake, and intended or not making it feel like it happened again was not the hay on the camels back for me, it was the punch into its back. a Bamboozle works because it doesn't happen often, and it still only works if we still felt like we some form of action we took with it. your using them too often and setting them up in ways that isnt good, in my opinion, and its getting tiring i guess.

thats honestly what im feeling right now. im tired of this nonsense, and want to move on from it, so please, no more chekhovs guns, no more hints at other solutions, not more of this section of this Arc. just...please, even if you literally have to take our vote and do a 12+ part full 3000 word write up, just move us along to a place we all and the story can recover at.

>>3642822
>gauche
i mean, no, you're right, the teleport is or best bet here.

and i do apologize if i came off as...snobby or something. i mean, i stand by what i said, i just feel my frustrations could be making my tones terrible.

>>3642837
yes, i know. its obvious what BHOPs hinting at. i dont care.
see
>>3642882
im done with this. anything he can give us here, i dont want anymore. i just want to move the fuck on.

i may think Isabelle is a terrible choice for a final boss, and yeah that MIGHT be a chance to stop her. but as far as im concerned we shouldn't have to be using this method to stop her and i just really really, do not want anything more to do with Isabelle or this stupid city. ever again. at least if we let Isabelle go, its done, shes gone. she literally will not be around again until literally the very end, and we can then just ignore the city and never come back. we can brush this as under the rug as we can and move on. trying to fight her here is just extending a section of the story i do not want extended.

>>3642882
>>3642857
So what you two are saying is that the two of you are so emotionally invested that it's given you emotional fatigue, and that you would rather have Isabelle walk away scott-free and let her sit as the Crucible's Final boss because you couldn't give a shit because the QM jerked you around so many times that you're now just apathetic to the entire quest from here on outwards because what Bhop pulled was the Bamboozle that broke your back.

Isabelle "killing" Gina on the beach and the near party-wipe was the bamboozle that nearly broke MY back. And yet I've held on.

It might be because the fact that I have a day-job that's given me distance and a considerable degree of clarity in exchange for less participation in the quest (which I really wish I could still participate to an intense degree like before), but I'm thinking the two of you need to step back and cool off. The two of you are just too emotionally invested and you're letting your emotions get the better of you and both of you are on the verge of burning out.