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>>3590902
[Welcome to another thread of my slow-running one-post-a-day-minimum quest. You can read the previous threads here:

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?searchall=Commentarii

Attached to this post is a rough map of your current territory. I haven't exactly planned too long and hard on the "civ" part of this quest (me being mostly a narrative sort of QM) so it will be rough. Please don't eat me alive.]

Rolled 79 (1d100)

>>3590902
Time for "Border Skirmishes" (read- beginning of the Second Sino-Japanese War)

>>3590914
I should probably put a reminder here that this is a roll-under quest, so high = bad, low = good. This means that we are almost guaranteed to see a roll of 100 in the thread. Because that's how /qst/ dice... rolls.

I'm not sorry

Rolled 23 (1d100)

>>3590902

>>3590929
A good reminder to have early thread, although methinks most anons at this point in the quest would know. Also, fucking Fortuna ruining my inciting incidents

Rolled 78 (1d100)

>>3590902
So is it best of three for each of these or one roll for each one? Or do we pick one.

>>3590984
One a piece. Fortune is not so kind about such macro-matters as she is with single combat...

Rolled 72 (1d100)

>>3590902
Continuing what I was saying last thread about Belisarius' heavy cavalry.
To answer your question, I'm not entirely sure about the details of the horses or the precise nature of how their harassing tactics compared to those of the huns. As you may know, a great deal of the history recordee at that time was propaganda, either for or against the generals and emperor. What I do know is this:
Belisarius trained a household regiment of cavalry, armed with lances, spatha, and heavy bows that outranged those carried by other archers he encountered. These riders were heavily armored, both horse and man, and were heavily trained. They were the most expensive soldiers fielded by the Empire in the time of Justinian, and Belisarius won many victories with them in various different climates and locations, despite being almost constantly outnumbered.

I have a feeling those kind of rolls are just going to be a cascade of failure....

>>3591020
That's pretty much all of our rolls in this quest, though.

>>3591020
Rolls: 79, 78, 23
DC: 90, 70, 50
So we did at least pass 2 of 3.

>>3591048
I mean, we do manage to eke out successes on 3d100, very rarely on 1d100 though.

>>3591055
I am pretty sure you can’t reorganize the order in which the dice were rolled?

>>3590914
>>3590939
>>3590984

>Military: 1 Degree of Failure
>Economic: 7 Degrees of Success
>Social: 2 Degrees of Failure
Very nice, writing

>>3591071
We are at least good at that dosh cash

>>3591084
Which is ironic, considering it’s Caesar we are talking about...

>>3591013
I distinctly remember reading about household cavalry while writing things for the earlier segment of the quest, but couldn't find any follow up descriptions either. I would say that you practically require having Nisaean mounts for this, since you need both strength and endurance. By the way, you can't get any Nisaeans here. Ferghanans are poor copies of mythic creatures, and they're called "Celestial Horses" in China, so you can kind of see how outclassed their horses are here.

Basically your nameless Nisaean shits on Red Hare.

You're gonna need to convince anons to go fully QUALITY instead of QUANTITY, however. That kind of training doesn't come cheap, and every loss will be felt.

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>Military: 1 Degree of Failure
>Economic: 7 Degrees of Success
>Social: 2 Degrees of Failure

Your legions are stretched thin, wary as they are against civil insurrection against foreigners, and the 6-thousand strong Sinaean militias are still in the process of being converted from listless thugs with spears to true soldiers, with equipments to match. It does not surprise you to hear that one or two of the skirmishes ended in loss of civilian lives and torching of farmhouses. But the marauders never overstay their welcome, and no true border changes are marked.

The peaceful state of your lands make for a vigorous regrowth of economy, the belts of the people less tightened by the fact that you are not one for decadence nor luxuries. The peasants do not starve at all this winter, and with the public executions of some of the tax collectors as their corruption is exposed, civil servants strive to appear austere and spartan in their lifestyle. Shipyards of Houguan become nests of activity as lumber harvested from Jian'an make way down south to become ships, mercantile and militant both. The livestock farms are filled with the satisfied cooing of beasts, granaries are near to explode, and the Islanders receive a surprising surplus of fish now that they are working together as one.

Disturbing rumours float among the people of Houguan, but their stomachs are too full and their houses peaceful to listen to the discordant whispers of anti-social agents of the Red Eyebrow Rebellion.

Looks like your labours were not in vain.

---

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>>3591170

Ab urbe condita 772 - SPRING

"I don't wanna." You pout, arms crossed.

"It's part of state function, Alexandros," Lynius says patiently with the voice of a long-suffering parent. "These are distinguished guests, and you kind of have to meet them sooner or later. You can't just put them off for days without end and send them away empty handed."

"Those bastards destroyed three villages in the west!" Ambiorix roars, shaking his fist. "Three! That's like three hundred people, right there! We should behead their chief messenger and send them packing where they came from!"

Both you and Lynius stare at the gregarious Gaul.

"...too much?" he says sheepishly.

"Yeah."

"A little."

"Well, what do they want, then?" you say, jumping away from the topic of killing messengers. "It's not like we have any trade with our neighbours, not after they kept needling our borders."

Lynius sighs. "Three groups of mess- I mean, ambassadors. One from the Imperial Chancellor Dong Zhuo-"

"What an ugly name," you comment.

"-the second from the imperial Inspector Liu Yao," he says, looking down at you severely like a schoolteacher does to a student who speaks out of turn. "He's apparently supposed to be the governor of the Yang Province."

"Never heard of him."

"Of course you haven't. You were nose deep in setting up rules and executing tax collectors and setting up circuit justiciars. He's practically powerless, but technically he's supposed to oversee the entire Province. And finally, from our friendly neighbour the Suns."

Ah. Now there is a name you have heard of.

Which one would you like to hear from first? Ambassadors who are picked later may consider it rude, especially if they think their masters to be of higher station.

>Ambassador from the Imperial Chancellor
>Ambassador from Grand Inspector Liu Yao of Yang Province
>Ambassador from Sun Jian, Marquis of Wucheng

>>3591180
>Ambassador from Grand Inspector Liu Yao of Yang Province
>Ambassador from Sun Jian, Marquis of Wucheng
>Ambassador from the Imperial Chancellor

As the chinese say, water far away cannot put out a fire close to home.
Also, did we set up any metal working in formosa?

>>3591205
Thing with smiths is, they're a very valuable resource so they tend to be in big cities. You could exile the few smiths there are in Jian'an, but they're going to think you hate their guts. And there's no reliable source of ore in Alexandria Eskhata.

If you want to get good and strong metallurgic tech tree going, I recommend you get at least one iron mine.

>>3591213
I mean, we did have a smith, he just didn’t have a smithy, so I was asking if we helped him set one up.

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Here's a "political divisions" map, not all the names are correct (Sun Jian still alive, Guangdong Alliance still being made) but I make do with what I can get.

>>3591223
Oh sure, but basically it won't be a full on forge since it takes years to train new full-fledged smiths. And metal. Lots of metal.

Before you ask if you could use the urukku-bars for training the younglings - no. Noooooo. I'm going to say that you need at least exceptional smiths to make anything with those, and that's with a fully outfitted forge with all the things that come with it like steady supply of fuel and metals.

Right now, your smithy capabilities are enough for slowly churning out iron weapons and armour for the newly-rearmed ex-militia that you are turning into newbie legionaries and fixing dents in armour.

>>3591237
That’s all I asked for, I didn’t expect us to have a forge immediately :)
We really need to cut a deal with hades and get some Ore deposit in Alexandria Eshkata.

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Three Kingdoms Campaign Map courtesy of /u/Skeewbs1

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And finally, city spread map with territory edit by an anon from previous thread

>>3591294
>>3591288
>>3591225
Thank you for all the maps this is great

Ill support this
>>3591205

>>3591294
I forgot if you've already mentioned this, but what sort of equipment are our Legionaries using? Mail armor, you've mentioned, but what sort of weapons and shields and helmets? Roman gladii, Celtic longswords, or Greek style kopis and xiphos? Roman scutum, or the large, ovular thureos popular among the Greeks and the Galatians they borrowed it from? Attic and Phrygian type helmets, or the ever popular Gallic helm that the Romans themselves liked enough to copy? Perhaps a mix of all of them? I imagine the Five Hundred would have purchased their own equipment, at least upon their inception into the company.

>>3591578

It was back in Book I, but I didn't go into detail since I wasn't sure myself then. I'm opting for non-use of lorica segmentata since it wasn't en vogue during Caesar's time in the Republic, and he himself would prefer hamata instead. I believe I've given scattered mention of scutum for shield (praising its relatively larger size compared to its Greek counterpart), which only adds to the burden of training required to be a legionary, to be able to use and wield such things. Greek shields like the aspis were smaller in diameter and more specialised for phalanx formations, which would have involved what I think is called the "shoving" stage in ancient battle - the two lines would meet, and proceed to shove each other with shields trying to make them stumble or otherwise get in a disadvantageous position, while spears supporting from behind would poke at them.

The greatest weapon of the Roman legionary is (in my opinion) not the gladius, but rather their pila. Part of the reason I'm heavily penalising null-AV in recent iterations of the combat system is because of the sheer importance of having a shield. It provides a large surface area to defend yourself against enemy attacks, but more than that, you can use it as a tool of counterattack, the central embossed metal circle acting as a sort of ram.

The javelins thrown by the legionary probably had two purposes. Firstly, to serve as a short- to medium-range missile weapon that blunts the initial charge of the enemy when the two forces meet, which is a crucial moment in the meeting of two warring parties. Secondly, and the more important of the two, is the disabling of enemy shields. The javelins are said to have been made in such a way that they would pierce the enemy shields and then partly break off, sort of dangle and provide a drag making the shield unwieldy. More often than not the combatant would ditch his shield, which opens him to painful, gut-wound-related deaths.

Speaking of gut wounds, part of what made the infantry of Republican Rome so powerful was that their enemies tended to be less armoured. The Greeks certainly had their hoplites, and used them to devastating effect during the Phyrric War, but as with the Samnite Wars we see the more flexible Roman manipular formation proving its usefulness against the rigid and non-manipulative (hehehe) phalanx. Most everyone else, including the Parthians who I believe did not put much stock in heavy infantry (typical of Iranian empires despite what The 300 would tell you) and even German or Gaul nations would not be able to reasonably match the kind of military hardware logistics that Rome could boast, especially with the conquest of coastal Iberia (and later all of Iberia).

>>3591641
So what kind of equipment do the 3 kingdoms Chinese use? Are we facing the same kind of unarmored draft infantry the Persians used, or something more menacing?

>>3591641
Anyway I think Caesar would vastly prefer the use of shortswords to longswords. I've scattered references to what I mentioned is "reach being the coward's choice", because it a) does not have the kind of devastating power behind the attack that a shortsword in the hand of a well-disciplined soldier who is willing to open himself to potential harm to do stabby-stab, and b) it is extremely useful to have such short weapons in chaotic melee skirmishing environments. Longswords are typically a cavalry weapon during this time for a reason (such as the Parthians, Turks; Germans and Gauls were also very much into horse riding compared to the Romans) while shortswords remained a mainstay of the Roman legions until Germanic influences permeated them and the switch to longswords was made - which could be argued to be a necessity partly due to the loss/breakdown of discipline required to wield shortswords because of man's natural aversion to being close to woundy-bitey enemies.

For helms, probably the montefort and coolus which do the job, with a few Gallics scattered around. Wikipedia is telling me that the last one was only starting to see use "late 1st BC century" so it wouldn't have been the most common helm when Caesar was alive and when, I would think.

The Five Hundred have a mishmash of equipments because they're very international and like to keep the toolset that the former (now dead) members brought from their own cultures. But they've more or less gone Legion since uniformity of shield at least is pretty important.

>>3591653
We're not in 3K period, but Late Han/3K all use mostly the same equipment, hand-me-downs from Han era. For horses I cannot imagine they use much armour (and there's such a lack of horse armour in Chinese archaeology) excepting possibly the Northern cavalries, which is to say the Turkic/Xianbei/Etc mercenaries/allies. Cao Cao's cavalry is very likely ethnic (ie non-Chinese) in origin as well, just as Dong Zhou's soldiers were (Dong Zhou was a warlord in the nortwestern region of China. This was the trade route that allowed China to get some non-shit horses from the West Asian horse people.)

The soldiers are going to be armoured with lamellar (leather) for the most part, I think. By the time of Han's demise, there was a breakdown of the intra-empire logistics network necessary to maintain an army of the Central Government which led to the Emperor going "well people with armies basically rule there now so let's give them a title and get taxes from them at least". We see this happen once again during Tang Dynasty (yes, that incident with Yang Guifei and everything) with the massive civil war fucking everything up and creating pop-up warlords in the aftermath.

So, leather armour, loooong dagger-axe spears (reach = cowardice!) which is going to be hilariously ineffective in practice because most of these guys are not trained at all to even wield clubs nevermind such unwieldy weapons. There's a reason the majority of deaths occur once morale breaks and one side starts fleeing. This applies even more so in Chinese shitmilitia.

These are not professional militaries we see during early Han or Song. They are refugees, given a long-ass spear, and then told to march that direction until they see someone coming from that side and go swoosh-swoosh.

>>3591694
Thanks. Also forgot to vote
>>3591180
>See the Imperial Inspector first

You have him introduced into your study. It is a smaller room than the banquet hall, but it is also more private, with less servants flitting about. He bows deep, bending from the hip. "I am Liu Wang, brother to the Emperor's Inspector of Yang Province," he says demurely. "I must confess that I did not expect to be the first."

"Life is full of surprises," you reply sardonically. "I am a busy man, Ambassador Liu. There are two other luminaries like yourself that I must listen to before the day ends. If the pleasantries are over, I would hear your brother's message."

"An alliance." If he is wrong-footed by your bluntness, he is doing a remarkable job at hiding it. "That is what he offers. My brother is the rightful overseer of the Yang Province, appointed by the Han court itself. Yet Yuan Shu grips the province through his proxy, Sun Jian."

You lean back on the curule seat. "I'm listening."

"My brother has never been the military type, Sir. He has some troops, a few fortresses here and there. It was never enough, of course, not against the Yuan Clan. They are a powerful family who hold great territories both in the coasts and the North. But you... you managed to take over the garrison south of here with spectacular ease. Not a single blood dropped, or so they say."

"They say correctly. What they don't say is how I benefit from this arrangement."

"You are a foreigner," he replies. "A stranger, unknown by men and beasts alike. Certainly, you have held the region for half a year and without rebellion of the people despite you being a..."

You raise an eyebrow. "A barbarian?"

"An unknown entity, if you like. But the fact remains that you have no legitimacy. No barbarian can rule over the Han for long, not without divine will."

"And your part in this alliance would be... to offer me this legitimacy."

He nods. "Correct. We could always use a buffer region against Sun Jian, and you would be properly integrated into our hierarchy by vassalising yourself under the Court-appointed Inspector. You would receive the title of Prefect of Jian'an."

>"Ah, but there's the catch; "without divine will", as you say. Who are you to say that there is no divine will?"

>"And how many troops would your brother muster if I am attacked by Sun Jian?"

>"Your brother's own claim to authority is flimsier than mine, Ambassador. He derives his legitimacy from a paper tiget a thousand miles from this place."

>Custom

>>3591937
>"Ah, but there's the catch; "without divine will", as you say. Who are you to say that there is no divine will?"
Of course, they couldn't know we exist in direct conflict with their "divine will"
>"by vassalising yourself under the Court-appointed Inspector"
Ew no

>>3591937
>"Ah, but there's the catch; "without divine will", as you say. Who are you to say that there is no divine will?"

>>3591937
>>"Ah, but there's the catch; "without divine will", as you say. Who are you to say that there is no divine will?"

>>3591961
Yeah im not being vassalised. Support

>>3591937
>"Ah, but there's the catch; "without divine will", as you say. Who are you to say that there is no divine will?"

>>3591937
>>"Ah, but there's the catch; "without divine will", as you say. Who are you to say that there is no divine will?"

>>3593208
>>3592538
>>3592422
>>3591975
>>3592403
>>3591961

>"Ah, but there's the catch; "without divine will", as you say. Who are you to say that there is no divine will?"

"The gods move in mysterious ways, Ambassador," you say with a slight shrug. "Who are you, a man, to say what my presence here is not divinely foretold? Their sight stretches beyond that of the myopic mortal, preparing for centuries while men squabble over mere years."

"You would dare claim to be divinely inspired?" he splutters. "That's... treason!"

"Treason is the mood of the decade, it seems. I never owed any oath of allegiance to your Son of Heaven." The Inspector's forces are weak. He relies too much on his court-appointed status, glossing over the realities of the day. Leaders are rising up throughout the land, whether this Han Court likes it or not.

An Emperor without authority is nothing. A cautionary tale for you, Caesar.

"Return to your master and tell him that there can be no negotiation until he learns his place."

He nods stiffly, a pale echo of his earlier bow. This time he's only bending the bare minimum. A petty people. "We will see about this pride of yours. Barbarians bend their knees, sooner or later."

You smile. "Yes, they do tend to do that, don't they?"

---

>>3593538

You can tell that the Sun ambassador is a military man the moment he steps into your study. The way he fidgets with his overdecorated silk robes, how he straightens his back subconsciously when standing still, and the way his eyes focus on you as if on attention.

"The Marquis of Wucheng sends his greetings to the master of Jian'an and Houguan," he says stiffly, looking like he wished he wasn't here. "My lord appreciated that you were an honourable man, and says he will remember how you sent his family back to him unharmed."

"Not enough appreciation to stop harassing my peasants."

"...Err, yes, well that's politics and beyond my pay grade. I am only here to deliver a message from the Marquis on behest of the great Lord Yuan. The honourable and virtuous gather their forces to strike against the Great Villain Dong Zhuo, who entered Luoyang pretending to rescue the Emperor, but instead occupied it as the new Wang Mang! We wish to right this wrong. Will you join us?

>"I have no quarrel with the Imperial Chancellor. His soldiers have not been raiding into my territories, after all."

>"What makes him such a great villain?"

>"No agreement can happen until your master sends reparations for the damages he incurred against my people."

>Custom

>>3593549
>"What makes him such a great villain?

This will help alexandros get some idea of how the local think.

>>3593549
>"What makes him such a great villain?"
Option 1 I dislike because neutrals always lose out in conflicts

Option 3 I dislike because the idea that simple reparations will pay for these incursions is belittling of Alexandros's authority

Option 2 however is useful

>>3593549
>"What makes him such a great villain?"

>>3593664
>>3593660
>>3593633

The ambassador regaled Caesar with the tales of Dong Zhuo's depravities; how he raped the women of the Inner Palace, who were there for the Emperor's pleasure; how he strutted in the presence of the Emperor, instead of hopping like a sparrow as was proper; how he took to bringing his sword, again in the presence of the Emperor, although this was forbidden.

And how he deposed the former Emperor and chose his younger brother to be the next.

That was the last straw for the various generals still loyal to the True Emperor. This was why Yuan Shu and his brother, Yuan Shao, were rallying their bannermen (which included Sun Jian) and callilng for all faithful servants of the Son of Heaven to rise up against the tyranny of the self-proclaimed Imperial Chancellor.

Now Yuan Shao was publicly calling for the overthrow of Dong Zhuo to the Four Corners of the Middle Kingdom. Sun's ambassador proclaimed that by joining, Caesar would gain recognition from the regional powers, legitimising him in the eyes of gods and men.

>Not being a faithful servant of the Emperor, Caesar replied to the Sun ambassador's call to arms with a negative. Caesar was not in the habit of placing himself under the beck and call of a barbarian lord.

>Citing geographic distance as a reason, Caesar rejected the invitation to the Guangdong Coalition. It was a very long way to Luoyang, and traveling in such small numbers, piecemeal, could get him destroyed on the way.

>Interested in gaining new contacts and enlargening his network of acquaintances in this new and foreign land, Caesar agreed to send a token amount of force that he would lead himself. Who knew what kind of human resources he might harvest by partaking in this risky endeavour?

>Custom suggestion

>>3593697
>Interested in gaining new contacts and enlargening his network of acquaintances in this new and foreign land, Caesar agreed to send a token amount of force that he would lead himself. Who knew what kind of human resources he might harvest by partaking in this risky endeavour?

Take some of the newly trained chinese legion.

>>3593697
>Interested in gaining new contacts and enlargening his network of acquaintances in this new and foreign land, Caesar agreed to send a token amount of force that he would lead himself. Who knew what kind of human resources he might harvest by partaking in this risky endeavour?
I would have said no but alienating literally everybody in Sinae right from the get go is probably not a good idea

>>3593697
>Custom suggestion
Cite geography but instead of refusing, offer to give support in the form of food / gold. Our land's economy is quite healthy so we can offer a fair bit of support while our army is too small and too weak to be of much consequence (or at least that's what we will imply).

I'd rather not get dragged into the madness of these wars but if we can maintain a cordial relation with our neighbours that would be good.

>>3593717
I like this, switching to this

>>3593714
>>3593718
Both of these are me, since phoneposting causes my id to change periodically, inexplicably

>>3593717
Changing to this as well, though I have to sk just how full our treasury currently is.

>>3593728
Rich in food, poor in gold/metal. Of the four Resources you do have, three of them are food-related.

>>3593718
>>3593728
>>3593717
It was a tempting offer, in more ways than one. There would likely be many interesting people to meet, warlords and generals and tacticians from all around Sinae. But the presented risk for such an extended campaign was many, and Caesar was not so Hellenic so as to sign up for an expedition of scale with ill-defined operational parameters. Traveling among people he barely knew. In strange territories which had no reason to be friendly with him. In a theatre of war more political than military.

Caesar expressed sympathy - but not outright allegiance - to the Coalition's goals, and offered to provide some grain for the gathering forces that would march north in a month's time. The harvest had been particularly excellent, fishes were teeming in the shores to the point of choking from the lack of open waters, and the beasts of the field... randy, in a heretofore unprecedented scale.

The ambassador was understandably disappointed, but returned to good cheer with the offer of grains as a tangible sign of Caesar's well-wishes for his master's campaign. Food is often in short supply in these states, who lack a professional arm of the military, and rely instead on their farmers and agrarians to wield the spear.

From this, an odd sort of relationship emerged between the State and the lands of Sun Jian. Though Caesar had taken the two counties of Houguo and Jian'an by force of arms, he had proven his gentility by the safe return of Sun's family members, as well as this polite gesture given freely. Caesar had no illusions that these actions would prevent the Sun Clan from avenging their lost territories, but for now, while the State grew and Sun Jian was campaigning in the north, he believed there would be peace.

>Relations with Sun Jina: Strained, but cordial due to necessity and personal impressions

>>3593768
Though you have shown support for the anti-Dong Zhuo Guangdong Coalition, the Imperial Chancellor doesn't know that. Will you be hearing him out as well, or cast him out? Even execute him, to cement your public standing with the Coalition?

>>3593769
Imperial Chancellor's ambassador*

>>3593771
>>3593769
May as well hear what he has to say. If he gets all offended for being last to hold an audience, all the more reason to send him packing with the knowledge that we don't intend on supporting his master

>>3593769
Listen to him, perhaps send him away politely, having a somewhat honorable reputation can be useful in a decisive moment.

>>3593777
>>3593779

The Imperial Chancellor's ambassador turned out to be an up-jumped stableman, who was more familiar with horses than words, having difficulty reading and writing in stark contrast to the two sent previously. He was, however, of a fiery disposition that - along with certain pertinent physical features - pointed to an ancestry snaking from the north-western horse people. It seems likely that this man was from Dong Zhuo's own horsemen contingent. The Imperial Chancellor may have deemed it best to use "barbarian on barbarian", a common saying among the Sinaeans.

When inducted into the study, which Caesar was in the habit of living and sleeping in due to the number of work that administrating a newly conquered region burdens its ruler with, the ambassador launched into a scolding tirade at making him wait, and demanded that a table with feasts be laid before him. More curious than offended by his confident mannerism, Caesar provided a small dinner for the man, who derided his host's proferred meal while consuming them regardless of the apparent low quality of the food.

When satisfied with his verbal abuse, the man ordered Caesar to kneel, as the proclamation he carried was stamped by the Emperor himself.

>Custom

>>3593786
«Gods can not make me kneel, must less an Emperor»

>>3593788
This. They would have us kneel to a man who barely holds authority in his own court?

>>3593788
Much* less

>>3593786
>Custom
Alexandros answers contemptuously, "Ask again and I shall have you beheaded, slave. Deliver your message and begone."

>>3593788
this

>>3593788
>>3593796
Auctoritas - the ability to bend others to one's will. This Dong Zhuo must be truly gifted, if he has been able to take over the capital despite the preponderance of all these "faithful" ministers. The messenger is self-assured enough in the borrowed power from his status as the mouthpiece of the Chancellor.

That he sent a rude and undisciplined man to you is a sign of his craftiness. If you kill him, the Chancellor loses nothing of consequence, but gains a casus belli. Accept his words and kneel, and you would be groveling, lowering your status among your vehemently anti-Dong neighbours. If there ever was a man not born for the conduct of politics, this is the one. His robes are ill-kempt, the funny tall black hats government officials wear improperly fastened on his head.

If only you had your legions. You could freely carve out an enclave of civilisation in this society of scheming eunuchs and stuttering scholars.

"You will kneel, or you will be known as the man who defied the Son of Heaven," he is saying. "Maybe four years ago, you could have gotten away with such insolence, but now with the Imperial Chancellor protecting imperial authority, you have no chance. Now kneel, while I am patient! Or I will recommend the sending of Lu Bu to the Chancellor when I return."

"Gods cannot make me kneel, much less an emperor. If you have nothing to say, then you may be on your way to report back to your master on your failure to do the one job you were given. Of course, I can't stop you from lying to this chancellor that I did kneel in front of the imperial messenger."

"...Very well," he says with irritation, "I shall be magnanimous this once. Know, then, that the Emperor has transferred to you the Inspectorship of Yang Province, and requires you to destroy the vile Sun Clan who leech off the blood of the people and refuse to send their taxes! The Imperial Chancellor will grant you five years within which to put your new Province to order."

Paper-tigers, straw soldiers. What use is a title without legitimacy?

>Caesar had the messenger publicly executed, and his body buried in an anonymous grave. This was the answer Dong Zhuo would get for trying to meddle in his affairs.

>Yet Caesar realised that this provided him an avenue of gaining recognition, hollow as the title was. He would need to wrest away the title first from Liu Yao...

>Caesar laughed him out of his office, cutting off his beard and eyebrows to shame him before kicking him out of his city.

>Custom

>>3594106
>Caesar laughed him out of his office, cutting off his beard and eyebrows to shame him before kicking him out of his city.

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>>3594109

>>3594106
>>Caesar laughed him out of his office, cutting off his beard and eyebrows to shame him before kicking him out of his city.
lol the emperor probably won't even be in power in 5 years, though this emperor does seem a little craftier than usual

>>3594106
>Caesar laughed him out of his office, cutting off his beard and eyebrows to shame him before kicking him out of his city.

>>3594106
>Caesar laughed him out of his office, cutting off his beard and eyebrows to shame him before kicking him out of his city

And
>Make sure to loudly an mockingly make (inadvertently) the situation known to people in the city while chasing him out; let what this Dong Zhuo just tried to do spread through the land and reach the ear of the Sun and Liu.

>>3594128
Support

>>3594106
Supporting >>3594128

By the way, what do the rest of you think about training our Nisaean riders into multi-use heavy cavalry? I still think it'd be a great complement to out legionaries.

>>3594361
Wouldn't the cataphracts, being raised and trained in Parthia, already be trained in horseback archery?

>>3594326
>>3594204
>>3594128
>>3594126
>>3594124
>>3594109
>>3594204
>>3594128
>>3594126
>>3594124
>>3594109

The messenger is chased away, disgraced and dewhiskered. Even his horse is confiscated from him, forcing him to walk away from the city walls, helped occasionally by accidental arrow discharge. You give it till the end of the week for the news of his expulsion to spread, not only in your own territories but also your neighbours'. With the token gift of grains to be sent soon, you have no doubt that you will be considered "mostly harmless" by the Coalition partners that suffocate your lands.

>This is the perfect time to increase your territory, while attentions are diverted northward. [Summon the Legionarii]
Sun Jian leads his own household troops toward Luoyang, leaving behind only enough to defend against Liu Biao against whom he shares bitter enmity. Neither Liu Biao nor Liu Yao are contributing to the campaign against Dong Zhuo despite being descended from the royal family of Han, but they are each of them occupied with preexisting enmities. Now is the time to expand for even more territories!

>You are left behind in peace to further consolidate your hold on the two counties. [Turtle]
The soldiers are not fully trained, there remain roads to be built to improve transportation throughout your territories, and walls to put up in anticipation of foreign attacks. Now is not the time for chaotic expansion, but for consolidation. What can you do with peasants who are not fully loyal to your cause? You do not even have sufficient iron to arm more legionaries, even if you get more men!

>Custom

>>3594451
>This is the perfect time to increase your territory, while attentions are diverted northward. [Summon the Legionarii]
The empire of the truly divine must grow!

>>3594451
>>You are left behind in peace to further consolidate your hold on the two counties. [Turtle]
As much as I would like to strike while the Iron is hot, we must learn from Alexander of antiquity and solidify our holdings. Under our guide, we will be able to instill Roman ideals into these barbarian populations

>>3594461
This. Plus the more strongly we hold our current lands, the less men and money we will need to maintain our control, letting us focus our efforts elsewhere.

Not to mention, it'd be nice to ensure we move out with proper legions, not some half-trained mob. Last thing we need is to lose a battle because they break or charge without orders.

>>3594461
>>3594471
You make good points. I'll switch to
>You are left behind in peace to further consolidate your hold on the two counties. [Turtle]
so we can continue training our new recruits.
By the way, Fortuna, what about what >>3594428 mentioned? Are our cataphracts trained as Parthian archers, or are they heavy lancers only?

>>3594507
I'll count them as trained in both archery and lancery, but future additions to the equites parthii will be costly to produce, with a Nisaean mount requirement for the necessary strength AND endurance dual req. Originally I wasn't 100% on whether the rest of the Parthians had Nisaeans, but you can have those as a freebie.

Am I not a generous goddess?

>>3594451
>>You are left behind in peace to further consolidate your hold on the two counties. [Turtle]

We don’t need the ridiculous number of mob peasants most people us, we need proper legion.

>>3594572
Praise Fortuna! We shall wrestle a Tiger bare handed and offer it as a sacrifice for her boon!

Btw, have started social reform yet?

>>3594572
>Am I not a generous goddess?
Extremely. There's a reason why I've been trying to convince the other players to warm up to the gods, you know.

>>3594451
>You are left behind in peace to further consolidate your hold on the two counties. [Turtle]

>>3594451
>You are left behind in peace to further consolidate your hold on the two counties. [Turtle]

>Some boring stats

So currently you have ~60k pop in the mainland, 30k from Jian'an City, 20k from the small agricultural communities dotting both Houguan and Jian'an Counties, and 10k in coastal fishing villages. Because seafood tend to spoil, most of your soldiers are stationed either in the Island or the coasts if they aren't patrolling the Mojave since they can consume the short-lasting seafood instead of using up long term storage grain supply (useful for winter/next year's planting).

You have 6k Sinaean legionaries, around 3k from The Ship + Islanders. Although you are safe for now since the harvest has been good and you are at peace, you are gonna want more citizens to be able to support further legion building.

Your current State has no reliable and plentiful access to metal ores, so barter system is the main thing. Once you get a copper mine you can start minting your own currency, which will aid domestic economy...

At least you have plentiful food.

>>3594584
So far all you've done is hang tax collectors who were too obviously corrupt (to confiscate their gathered wealth) [or if you are an idealist, to right the wrongs done against the people!] and establish the Constitution (to tax the people) [ahem, provide rights and privileges to those under his protection]. What kind of social reforms are you thinking of?

>>3594588
You should get married already so you have children to sacrifice.

>>3594619
I was just talking about starting to change the social structure currently in use with the one we choose for our nation.

>>3594619
I can't speak for the other anon, but my mind goes to implementing the social hierarchy of civil classes and governmental structure we discussed at length in the last thread. Have we done that?

>>3594626
Human sacrifice is frowned upon by the Romans.

>>3594628
Citizenship? I've automatically applied it with the half year of administration focus.

>>3594631
Aw, but blood sacrifice is so potent too! Guess what the little Suernian Prince has been doing while making his way steadily East.

>>3594628
If you mean the Citizenship, yes, that's been applied. I said as much in one of the drafts of the last update, guess I didn't add it in in the end. So much ends up in the cutting room floor.

Would you like to start assigning people to a proper bureaucratic central administration, or remain a mostly tribal structure with you at the centre?

>>3591170
>The 6-thousand strong Sinaean militias are still in the process of being converted from listless thugs with spears to true soldiers, with equipments to match.

>>3594606
How long will it take us to finish the process referenced above?

>>3594637

>MARCH - FINISHED, TRAINING
The first thing the soldiers are to be taught is the military step, which can only be acquired by constant practice of marching quick and together. Nor is anything of more consequence either on the march or in the line than that they should keep their ranks with the greatest exactness. For troops who march in an irregular and disorderly manner are always in great danger of being defeated. They should march with the common military step twenty miles in five summer-hours, and with the full step, which is quicker, twenty-four miles in the same number of hours...

>SWIM - TRAINING
Every young soldier, without exception, should in the summer months be taught to swim; for it is sometimes impossible to pass rivers on bridges, but the flying and pursuing army both are often obliged to swim over them. A sudden melting of snow or fall of rain often makes them overflow their banks, and in such a situation, the danger is as great from ignorance in swimming as from the enemy. The ancient Romans, therefore, perfected in every branch of the military art by a continued series of wars and perils, chose the Field of Mars as the most commodious for their exercises on account of its vicinity to the Tiber, that the youth might therein wash off the sweat and dust, and refresh themselves after their fatigues by swimming. The cavalry also as well as the infantry, and even the horses and the servants of the army should be accustomed to this exercise, as they are all equally liable to the same accidents.

>COMBAT POSTS - TRAINING
...they gave their recruits round bucklers woven with willows, twice as heavy as those used on real service, and wooden swords double the weight of the common ones. They exercised them with these at the post both morning and afternoon. Every soldier, therefore, fixed a post firmly in the ground, about the height of six feet. Against this, as against a real enemy, the recruit was exercised with the above mentioned arms, as it were with the common shield and sword, sometimes aiming At the head or face, sometimes at the sides, at others endeavoring to strike at the thighs or legs. He was instructed in what manner to advance and retire, and in short how to take every advantage of his adversary; but was thus above all particularly cautioned not to lay himself open to his antagonist while aiming his stroke at him.

>>3594672

>STAB - FINISHED, TRAINING
They were likewise taught not to cut but to thrust with their swords. For the Romans not only made a jest of those who fought with the edge of that weapon, but always found them an easy conquest. A stroke with the edges, though made with ever so much force, seldom kills, as the vital parts of the body are defended both by the bones and armor. On the contrary, a stab, though it penetrates but two inches, is generally fatal. Besides in the attitude of striking, it is impossible to avoid exposing the right arm and side; but on the other hand, the body is covered while a thrust is given, and the adversary receives the point before he sees the sword. This was the method of fighting principally used by the Romans, and their reason for exercising recruits with arms of such a weight at first was, that when they came to carry the common ones so much lighter, the greater difference might enable them to act with greater security and alacrity in time of action.

>JAVELIN - TRAINING
Besides the aforementioned exercise of the recruits at the post, they were furnished with javelins of greater weight than common, which they were taught to throw at the same post. And the masters at arms were very careful to instruct them how to cast them with a proper aim and force. This practice strengthens the arm and makes the soldier a good marksman.

>LOAD CARRY - TRAINING
To accustom soldiers to carry burdens is also an essential part of discipline. Recruits in particular should be obliged frequently to carry a weight of not less than sixty pounds (exclusive of their arms), and to march with it in the ranks. This is because on difficult expeditions they often find themselves under the necessity of carrying their provisions as well as their arms. Nor will they find this troublesome when inured to it by custom, which makes everything easy. Our troops in ancient times were a proof of this, and Virgil has remarked it in the following lines:

The Roman soldiers, bred in war's alarms,
Bending with unjust loads and heavy arms,
Cheerful their toilsome marches undergo,
And pitch their sudden camp before the foe.

>>3594672
>>3594675
(FINISHED, TRAINING indicates having accomplished adequate standard with continued drills in that sector, while TRAINING alone means it is not up to par yet.)

Issues:
- Language barrier between ex-Five Hundred officers and the common Sinaean.
- Lack of new metal supply. Currently subsisting by melting down armour and weapons and reforging them. Arrows and javelins in low supply.
-Sinaean aversion to fighting with shortswords. Beating out the cowardice is going to take some time.

Conclusion: Graduation to full legionaries by this summer.

>>3594697
So what's the prompt for our next phase of action? Freeform input on what the state should do?
One thing of obvious concern is the lack of metal. Is it possible to trade for it in our current economic state?

>>3594636
>Would you like to start assigning people to a proper bureaucratic central administration?
Definitely. I believe we outlined it in one of the previous threads, but I'm not certain whether we came to a consensus. It's something to be discussed, at any rate.

File: local map.png (2.08 MB, 1902x1733)

2.08 MB PNG

As you can see in this map, you're an agriculturally rich region, but with little industrial capacity to speak of. South in general is pretty mineral-poor, looks like. North is much more metal-rich, but you can't exactly skip all the way there.

You have the light green Liu Yao (the Inspector), light blue Sun Jian (vassal warlord to Yuan Shu), grey (Yuan Shu, brother of Yuan Shao), purple (Liu Biao who controls a phenomenal amount of territory if you look at the political map), and orange Shi Xie (yeah I don't know much about this guy, probably Nanman-affiliated from the look of his territory). The only reachable source of Iron (AND copper! AND Weapons Craftsman for your unforged urukku-bars!) is Poyang, which means... fighting with Sun Jian? Oof.

>>3594708
>freeform
Nah, I haven't responded to the last vote yet.

>>3594714
>Nah, I haven't responded to the last vote yet.
Ah, now I understand. I was thinking your briefings on the situation were in response to the turtle vote.

>Neighbor Info
Well, the overarching plan I'd suggest is to make Liu Yao our first target of expansion and use our agricultural wealth to buy iron and copper from Poyang, as well as possibly sending agents of ours (acting the part of merchants) to recruit craftsmen from there.

>>3594728
Probably going to need divine intervention to «find» an iron mine in our territory

Btw, I think there is some copper on Alexandria Eshkata, it just hasn’t been found.

This is the government structure I wrote up a while ago, while that debate was going on.

EXTRA-ORDINARY RANKS
The "extra-ordinary" organisations and ranks are those that exist outside the regular government apparati (Senate) for various reasons.

Pater Patriae - Sanctus magistratus
"Father of the Nation" - This is you. You are immortal, though not invulnerable to damage. Best of luck staying on top. One of the few "sanctus magistratus" or sacred magistracy, meaning they cannot be voted or cast out by the people.

Dux - Promagisterial Rank
"Duke" - While a member of the Senate by virtue of the honours of the title, the Dux title is somewhat similar to "client king" in this context. Not subordinate to the Consular Ranks. Usually a life-long title. In practical terms, they are life-long proconsuls whose titles are inherited by their individual dynasties. They are semi-autonomous, but not independent, similar to the proconsuls.

Proconsul - Promagisterial Rank
Governors to oversee territories of the State. Though they are chosen among the Senators, due to the physical distance involved, they are considered absent from the Senate for the duration of holding this office. Governor-Militant in the sense that both civil and military authority on the specific region are invested to the individual. Limited term of five years.

Censores - Sanctus magistratus
The Directorate of Intelligence. Headed by a specially appointed Proquaestor censorum, the censores are not drafted from the Senate but have their own recruitment centers. Under the censores are the venatores, who are their hunting dogs specialising in wetwork, the frumentarii who collect intelligence, and exploratores, agents that prepare areas for infiltration and lay the groundwork for further intelligence activities.
They are independent from the main Senate body, and report only to the Pater Patriae. However, they coordinate closely with both the civil and the military services, having liaisons in both branches.
Uniquely, they hold the power to strip individuals of their Senatorial rank, effectively booting them from the Government.

>>3594735
Lords Militant

>Magister Militum - Consular Rank
"Master of Soldiers" - Effectively the Grand Marshall, the highest commander of the military below the Pater Patriae. Also doubles as one of the two Consuls during the assembly of the Senate ex officio. Somewhat similar to the Minister of War/Defence.
>>Legati pro Magistratus - Senatorial Rank
"Legate, acting for the Magistracy" - Directly subordinate to the Magister Militum. Commands multiple legions. Holds command over legati legionis.
>>Legati legionis - Senatorial Rank
"Legate of the Legion" - Commands a single legion. Not usually present in the Senate, as they are typically doing legion stuff.
>>Legati classicae - Senatorial Rank[i/i]
"Legate of the Fleet" - Commands a number of ships. Not usually present in the Senate, as they are typically doing fleet maintenance/patrol stuff.

Lords Spiritual

>Pontifex Maximus - Consular Rank
Leader of the religious cult dedicated to the veneration of its ruler; more importantly, is in charge of the bureaucratic apparatus of the State that oversees non-military matters. Also doubles as one of the two Consuls during the assembly of the Senate. Basically Head of Civil Service. Each "department" is headed by a pontifex. The Civil Service is known as the Temple.
>>Quaestores - Senatorial Rank
Agents of the Templum quaestorum. They oversee the finances of the State. Headed by the Pontifex quaestoris.
>>>Numenarii - Equestrian Rank
Accountants working within the Quaestorian Temples, specialising in taxation. IRS.
>>Aediles - Senatorial Rank
Agents of the Templum Aedilium. Public Works. Oversees maintenance of roads, buildings, temples (in this context, government buildings), social welfare. The celebration of religious festivities is also the concern of the Aediles. Headed by the Pontifex aedilis.
>>Praetores - Senatorial Rank
Agents of the Templum praetorum. Judiciary. Judges, enforcers of the ius Romanum, maintains records on the laws of the State. Headed by the Pontifex praetoris.

-=-

"Lesser" Offices, which can be fulfilled by plebeians of the first (triarii) and second class (principes) and above. Like the above, requires full citizenship.

Princeps officii
Permanent secretary. Each Temple has one.
Cornicularii
Administrative deputies to the legati, liaise with their civil service counterparts.
Adiutor
Adjutant; unit administration, human resources management. Part of a legate's staff.
Regerendarii
Government bookkeepers.

Cohortalini
The rank and file civil servant, whose works are too unimportant to list out individually.

>>3594735
>>3594748
I love this wholeheartedly, and vote we apply it verbatim to our held lands ASAP. The spiritual/civil merge is particularly fun. Very flavorful, and reminiscent of Vivec.

>>3594733
>>3594728
>metal
By the way, there's going to be significant minuses to civilian happiness if large scale mining work is thrust on citizens. This kind of work is usually for criminals and slaves, because it's so grueling a task.

>Expansion
Didn't we opt for Turtle this year? Well, having chosen Turtle doesn't mean you can't make war, mind you. It's just that the general focus will be inward and the country won't be ready for massive campaigns.

>>3594772
First one anon tells me my quest is Berserk, and now it's TES. And to think I don't read/play either of those...

>>3594778
Well, we can still have criminal do it, I don’t see any problem with that.
Roman didn’t exactly mine the stuff themselves either.

>>3594748
>>3594735
Very very good, however I want to suggest that we create an advisory council for Caesar.

>>3594782
Well, I love Berserk and TES3, (though I wasn't the anon to make the Berserk comparison) so hopefully you'll at least take it as a complement.

>>3594778
We chose to turtle this year, yes. That's why I said it was an overarching plan; we're going to expand eventually, and it's not like ore deposits are going to move. Liu Yao seems like the best target to strike first when we've finished solidifying our rule over our current lands and training our troops.

>>3594796
However it might be a good idea to trade our foodstuffs for the metal we will turn into arms that we will then use against them

>>3594801
I agree, and suggested that very thing at >>3594728.

>>3594796
>overarching plan
Yeah that sounds fair, the Turtle was the overarching plan for the season but it's subject to change depending on internal/external stimuli like INVASION or other shenanigans.

>>3594793
>advisory council
That's what the Senate does, innit?

>Other stuff
If the above government system structure is more or less palatable to players, could I have some discussion on who goes where? Need the details to write down the update on >Turtling vote since it's going to be applied now.

In case you've forgotten, some of the leader-tier named characters are:

>Timon
>Lynius
>Ambiorix
>Hermann
>Micah
>Ariamnes (...)
>Yue Quan
>Galen
>Marcus Pollio
>Xanthippos

(Did I forget anyone?)

>>3594817
Alright, maybe this is me being an idiot but I don't really remember Timon, Marcus Pollio, or Lynius. What do they do?
Ambiorix and Hermann should probably both get dux/legati legionis status, right?
Was Micah our father's secretary, or am I remembering another character? If so, he's as good a pick as any for our first pontifex maximus, or maybe pontifex quaestoris if there's a more zealous candidate for the top spot in the temple.
Ariamnes of Parthia, Galen Suernica, and Yue Quan should all be placed as legati legionis, I think. We don't really have enough troops right now for anyone to be commanding multiple legions but Caesar.
Is Xanthippos really a high enough officer to be assuming a leadership position? Perhaps we can make him Galen's Adjutor.
What happened to the chronicler of the Five Hundred, by the way?

>>3594817
>That's what the Senate does, innit?
I suppose so. I'll obviously take your word for it because you are certainly better versed than I am. I assume that the senate functions somewhat like a presidential cabinet?

>>3594851
>Timon
Blue-eyed Timon of the Nors, Master of Marines (formerly) and one of the close friends of your father. Was maimed during the Insurrection, hasn't been in the spotlight since.

>Marcus Pollio
doctores ballistarum, one of the intellectual freed slaves. Did that Masada thing.

>Dux
Probably, you don't need to give them the legatus rank though since it's a bit redundant.

>Micah the Jew
Accountant, Lynius was the secretary and overall second in command when your father was captain.

>Yue Quan
He's a Mohist, trained in Sinaean Classics, castle building, sophistry, and also belongs to the "Strategist archetype" class.

>Xanthippos rank
Yeah not necessarily high enough, but he's also here as the representative for the Atreidae family and will be more important once trade link is actually established. Right now you do not have the kind of major port (nor the items, to be honest) to warrant a trade all the way to Muziris (then to Rome). It might be the child or grandchild of Xanthippos that really sees the trade in full swing, but who knows.

>Chronicler
Veicht, I forgot about that guy. Yeah, add him there too.

Keep in mind, not all of these ranks need to be filled right now, For example, you don't need multiple legati since you only have one legion. What I posted there is prepared for the eventuality of having an actual empire, and you barely have the population for a small kingdom.

>>3594857
Senate is more like the Parliament, the Cabinet would be a meeting between you and Magister Militarum + Pontifices from each temple (gov department)

>>3594882
>Yue Quan
He's a Mohist, trained in Sinaean Classics, castle building, sophistry, and also belongs to the "Strategist archetype" class.

He sounds like the kind of guy that would be absolutely delihted to have soldiers on the level of Legionnaries.

>>3594882
That fills me in nicely, thanks. Here's my thoughts:
>Ambiorix and Hermann: Dux
>Lynius: Pontifex Maximus
>Micah: Pontifex Quaestoris
>Galen: Legatus Legionis
>Timon: Legatus Classicae
>Xanthippos: Adjutor to Galen
>Marcus Pollio: Aedile, or military equivalent
>Yue Quan: Advisor to Deus Caesar Alexandros on matters of local lore and strategy of Sinae
>Veicht: Court chronicler of Deus Caesar Alexandros

>>3594897
General heavy infantry that's trained for multiple months (year in this case but that's partly due to iron shortage, language barrier, and other such things) is basically unheard of at this point. Even when some Emperors went for professional militaries, they were not contiguous and would often end up disbanded once a different Emperor rose up or political changes made them too costly. For example, there was this army that the Han Emperor made with Yuan Shao, Cao Cao, and He Jin as some of the commanders, because he wanted something to rival the forces of the eunuchs with. And then eunuchs killed He Jin, Yuan Shao killed eunuchs, Luoyang became a bloodbath and Dong Zhuo sneaked in and said "I'm the Imperial Chancellor now".

Then the army disbanded while everyone went to their own lands to defend their property. As far as I know, there's no precedent for legionaries.

>>3594909
? Since when are we Deus Caesar Alxendros?
Our title is Pater Patriae.

>>3594925
Right, Pater Patriae is our title. Deus Caesar Alexandros is our name. Or at least, what I've taken to using as our name, since we're alternately called Caesar and Alexandros, and we are a god.

>>3594925
A man and a god

>>3594920
Which is why I said a strategist type like him woud love legionnaries

>Great discipline
>don’t break easily
>very good at fighting in formation
>Amazing mobility.
>listen to order well
> good at fighting in general
>etc....

>>3594934
Caesar is what is written by Caesar to refer to Caesar in the Commentarii, but Alexandros is his real life name. Since, you know, you haven't exactly made being the Caesar in your past life a public thing. Because both Ambiorix and Hermann lost a shit ton of people from Caesar's legions.

>>3594934
...I am pretty sure we never put this to vote, because I am absolutely against this, claim to divinity when we are weak and small do us a disservice.

>>3594954
Of course. Honestly I'm still trying to come up with the perfect divine name for us (Alexandros Sol Invictus?) but for now, in OOC writing like what I have above, Deus Caesar Alexandros works.

Clearly our first goal shoudl be getting a army to march against light blue take poyang gor the metal and any other concurrent territories of theirs.

>>3594958
It wasn't put to a vote, and I haven't said we should use it in character. It's just how I'm referring to the protagonist in my own organizational list. No need to get confrontational about it.

>>3594963
That’s Sun jian, we... don’t really wanna get into a real fight with him right now, he is still a vassal of a much scarier guy and is a pretty damn good general himself.

>>3594966
Sorry, but it was written on a vote afterall and I thought it was legitimate to ask.

>>3594983
>it was written on a vote
Speaking of which, do you have any opinion on my placement of our subordinates, or your own suggestion?

File: Yuan+Shao+%40.png (628 KB, 659x950)

628 KB PNG

>>3594963
"Heard you were talking about invading my brother's vassal."

>>3594999
Where do these guys rate on a scale of Crassus to Belisarius? I know basically nothing about Chinese history.

>>3595004
Yuan Shao is not your concern yet, since his dominion is in the North. As you can see from the population map posted above, all the dudes that matter hold territories in the nort, specifically the Yellow River region. The South, on the other hand, is kind of the neglected back yard with low pop and few cities.

Yuan Shao is one of, if not the most powerful warlord at this point in time and leads the Guangdong Alliance against Dong Zhuo, who controls the capital and the boy Emperor.

Yuan Shu is a half-brother of Yuan Shao, holds territory which touches yours, and is the overlord of Sun Jian which also touches your border.

Militarily speaking, Yuan Shu is meh, Sun Jian is decent (normal Consul tier) but with multiple hero-level subordinates as well as good advisors. Once we get to actual Three Kingdoms period, Sun Jian's child will raise the Kingdom of Eastern Wu. Generally speaking the actual lords themselves tend to not be very tactic-y, relying on advisors for those. The lords go more for charisma stats.

Liu Biao holds the Central Plains and is one of the major factions, but is lacking in aggression and already locked in a conflict with the Sun clan.

Liu Yao is a minor warlord at best, not very good at the whole war thing.

>>3594851
>Timon
I *believe* that he was last mentioned when first got to Sinae, in a flashback to the training, though I might be mistaken
>chronicler of the Five Hundred, by the way?
Veicht, aka Scrivener. He's been around. I think he showed up in the last thread in fact.

>>3594992
Seems fine to me, we could perhaps give Yue Quan a command once he adapt to the legion and prove loyal
>>3595004
Well, I don’t know much about their skills as general, but they have a LOT of land and many, many soldiers.

>>3595058
So in that case liu yao is our best bet as at least we would have copper and we could buy iron im assuming.

>>3595076
You could certainly reach out to the Sun Clan to see if they would be willing to trade Iron for your groceries, and same goes to Liu Yao and copper.

>>3595085
I think the plan was to conquer liu Yao and trade with the Sun for the necessary Iron.
Liu Yao is such a juicy target.

>>3594461
>>3594471
>>3594507
>>3594578
>>3594589
>>3594595

>Turtling
Ab urbe condita 772 - Early Summer

All of Sinae is gearing up for a war. Lady Tzi does not have many contacts that far inland, being a southern trader herself - nevertheless, news of the Coalition Campaign trickles in from the refugees. Tens, hundreds, then thousands, they come in droves, entire families and villages uprooted from their ancestral lands to flee from rapacious war taxation and conscription. More people to till your farms or take care of your considerable livestock.

>+10k pop

The training of the first Sinaean legionaries is completed, and they are immediately put into border defence duty. Until you gain more iron, you cannot increase the number of soldiers.

>+6k Legionaries

Conflict intensifies between Liu Biao and Sun Jian, as the former intensifies his efforts in pushing back against the Sun Clan's borders while the bulk of their forces are up north. The battles are inconclusive, with losses on both sides.

Your lands are at peace thanks to the more troublesome neighbours sending their strengths north to participate in the so-called War of Righteousness. You have to wonder how righteous it is to separate sons from fathers in the middle of seeding season to send them to their deaths in unfamiliar lands. Because of the extended time of peace in an era of turmoil, the peasants are starting to think that you might not be so bad after all, for a barbarian. They had been expecting you to start marching off to the north to join the War of Righteousness.

The Islanders grow to appreciate the influx of grain, which serves as a social safety net against starvation, once so common in the Island. The natives have begun erecting little shrines of a little "War-God Who Brings Prosperity" in their sacred sites.

Liu Yao's vanguard force, allied with Liu Biao in opposing Sun Clan's growth in the south, march toward eastern Poyang. Some spillover occurs, as Liu Yao's soldiers intrude to steal grain from your farmers in western Jian'an.
Hermann and Ambiorix launches an initiative to introduce horses to the livestock fields of Houguan.
Micah starts a new language learning program, aimed at basic Greek fluency for volunteers.

>Military DC90
>1d100
>Economic DC70
>1d100
>Social DC45
>1d100

(I'm going to sleep, but I would like some discussion on what Caesar did while his ministers were doing the boring stuff like education outreach and whatnot. For example, did he send emissaries to establish trade to Liu Yao for copper and Sun Jian for iron? Declare war? Spend some quiet time with a friend?)

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Rolled 24 (1d100)

>>3595168
lets go

Rolled 92 (1d100)

>>3595168

Rolled 50 (1d100)

>>3595168
>First, Caesar sent emissaries to the north, to buy iron from Sun Jian.
>Then, once his new legionaries' training was completed, he declared war on Liu Yao, seeking to crush the isolated lord and expand the true empire.

>>3595190
Our new forces kick ass

>>3595195
Men of the celestial empire cannot into cavalry yet again

>>3595207
And barbarians mildly refuse to learn the language of so-called barbarians.

All-in-all, not unexpected results.

>>3595187
Maybe Caesar acted upon that realization of the advanced ages of many of his close people by simply being around them more often?

>>3595187
I think it makes sense that Caesar would have sent trade emissaries to Liu Yao for copper and Sun Jian for iron, as well as preparing to invade for the iron mines, but not invading yet. It's a large undertaking and we may not be totally ready

>>3595220
Well if this is a roll-under quest, then it's a shame the 24 was rolled on such a high DC. Lets home Fortuna, the blessed is, will give us a little bit of flair for our military update

>>3595252
Uhh, I think we wanted to prepare an invasion of Liu Yao and not touch the Iron mine, which are under Sun jian

>>3595252
>invade for the iron mines
That would require attacking Sun Jian, which it seems pretty clear is a bad idea. Let's prioritize the weaker Liu Yao, shall we?

>>3595273
>>3595277
Oh yeah, couldn't get that from the map. I suppose we could use the copper to buy more iron

Oh, wait, Liu Yao soldier are actually trying to loot our grain right? That’s the perfect casus belli to attack him

>>3595224
Support. While we won't see our loyal inner circle dying off for some years to come, it won't hurt to spend time with them and their families, perhaps with some thought spent on raising up their children to be our next generation of lieutenants when the time comes.
Also trade for metal, that's definitely important.

>>3595277
Also this. Doesn't really seem like anybody cares for Liu Yao, so nobody will be particularly upset if something happens to him and his domain

>>3595372
He did just give us a casus belli.
>Liu Yao's vanguard force, allied with Liu Biao in opposing Sun Clan's growth in the south, march toward eastern Poyang. Some spillover occurs, as Liu Yao's soldiers intrude to steal grain from your farmers in western Jian'an.

>>3595381
>>3595372
not to mention the vast majority of the populace might even support this conflict, as we were the ones provoked.

>>3595252
I think degrees of success are a thing in this quest, so blowing their military the fuck out with our newly trained guys not only inspires confidence in our leadership of men in the field but also reinforces to the next generation of recruits that our methods are worth learning, which could pay dividends for things like learning Greek to better communicate and coordinate with leadership, as well as promote peace within our borders as we can reassure the general populace that they are safe with us in charge.

>>3595190
>>3595195
>>3595207
>Military: 7 Degrees of Success
>Economic: 2 Degrees of Failure
>Social: 1 Degree of Failure

writing

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The horses do not take well to sharing grazing fields with cattle, and cases of death occur when curious herders go overly handsy with the beasts of war. Not a single new foal is born this summer.
Fear of horses: Sinaeans are reluctant to be near your horses, believing them ill-fated and mistaking their energy for being bad-tempered. It will be difficult to recruit cavalrymen from among their ranks.
The decurions and centurions of the Sinaean cohorts learn few basic commands, but barely any Sinanean peasant applies for the language re-education program.
Given ample advance warning thanks to mounted Gallian scouts, the 1st, 3rd, and 4th Cohorts (~3k) with the rest of the Gallian equites march to meet Liu Yao's 2nd Field Army (~11k) at the border. Liu Yao's general Fan Neng is killed in the battle, with most of the 2nd Field Army in tatters. Taking the initiative, Galen progresses into Liu Yao's territory, taking over the city and the livestock fields in northeastern Yuzhang.

---
>Casus belli gained: Grain Grudges

The first thing you notice is that Liu Wang is more deferential this time. The second thing is his clothes - armoured, instead of robed. "The soldiers were lost, and had not been given command to attack your lands," he says, his face somber. "A magnanimous lord would not take such grudges to heart. You have settled the matter by brilliantly destroying twenty thousand men-"

"Eleven." Why do these Sinaneans insist on inflating their numbers? Cart drivers and camp followers do not soldiers make.

"You are too humble," the brother of Liu Yao replies, bowing deeply. "But the point remains, Lord Yalishanda," he is using your name this time, albeit in Sinanean, instead of "Xila" - "Greek". "My brother has suffered greatly from the foolishness of his general; indeed, the leader of the Army lost his life for it. Is this not enough? My brother urges you to return the territories lost, restoring balance to the harmony of the Land. You will gain a powerful ally in him, one with which to oppose Sun Jian's power in the south."

"You attacked my men." The words are ground out, like flowing gravel against rock. There is little of the gravitas it would have in the sing-song Sinanean language, but the steel in the sound is clear as an urukku-steel sword. "You marched into my territory. You sought to raze my villages. To kill my people."

"We had had outdated maps that showed it as being Sun Jian's territory!" he protests. "It will not happen again."

>"No. It won't." [Declare invasion]

>"Never let it be said that I am a petty man, given to holding grudges for long periods of time." [Discuss reparations]

>Custom

>>3596811
>"No. It won't." [Declare invasion]

>>3596811
>>Custom
"Your lord knows that it would not take much for my armies to sack your city and take over the province, hence why you are groveling to me. He is not a liked person, as there will be no repercussions to me if I decide to annex your territory. Instead, I suggest that you tell your lord that it would be in his best interest to become our client state. He can still hold a modicum of power, and no longer do the wolves around him see him as a bountiful meal."

The way I see it, we are still not stable enough to double the size of our territory, so I think it would be in our best interest if we tried to instead keep the local power in check, and instead take over from the top.

>>3596811
>"No. It won't." [Declare invasion]
LOL

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>>3596826
>channeling your inner Yuan Shao

>>3596834
Make sure we give orders to strip the iron clean off their corpses to be rearmed at a later date

>>3596811
>"No. It won't." [Declare invasion]

Have an updated table of your military forces (excludes siege engineers etc since those haven't changed)

Caesar's Forces

LEGIO I CLASSICA

Legatus legionis: Galen of Suerna

>COHORS PRIMA SVERNICVM
Primus pilus (senior centurion of the first cohort): Zaharin
982 Legionaries (heavy infantry) [Note: plurality ex-Five Hundred, elite]
Current location: Yuzhang (invading)

>COHORS SECVNDA GERMANORVM
Senior Centurion: Vaeli
947 Legionaries (heavy infantry) [Note: plurality Jewish]
Current location: Houguan (defending)

>COHORS TERTIA HIBERNIAE
Senior Centurion: "Ginger"
1002 Legionaries (heavy infantry) [Note: majority Sinaean]
Current location: Yuzhang (invading)

>COHORS QVARTA SINARVM
Senior Centurion: Wen Bo
1014 Legionaries (heavy infantry) [Note: entirely Sinaean]
Current location: Yuzhang (invading)

>COHORS QVINTA SINARVM
Senior Centurion: Gion
1031 Legionaries (heavy infantry) [Note: majority Sinaean]
Current location: Jian'an (defending)

>COHORS SEXTA SINARVM
Senior Centurion: Fa Xiuying
1007 Legionaries (heavy infantry) [Note: entirely Sinaean]
Current location: Alexandria Eskhata (drilling)

>AVXILIA I GALLORVM EQVITATA
Praefectus equitum: Ambiorix, Chieftain of Gauls
401 Gallic cavalry (light cavalry)
Current location: Yuzhang (invading)

>COHORS GERMANORVM EQVITATA
Praefectus equitum: Hermann, Chieftain of Germans
123 German cavalry (light cavalry)
124 lance-bearers (specialised light infantry)
Current location: Houguan (horse breeding)

>EQVITES CATAPHRACTARII PARTHI
Decurio (leader of a turma, or squadron of horsemen): Ariamnes I
20 cataphractarii (heavy cavalry)
Current location: With you

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>>3596860
Invading doesn't mean they're actively going for aggression, it's just that them being in Yuzhang is considered an act of invasion. They're still staying in the bit of land they nabbed.

>>3596811
>"No. It won't." [Declare invasion]

Time to get a proper base, with enough pop and ressource to support a few more legion.

>>3596817
>>3596833
>>3596840
>>3596947

>"No. It won't."

Dead men make no wars. You dismiss the ambassador with your curt pronouncement still ringing in his ears. Liu Yao already has his troops mobilised, and you have no doubt that he will try to avenge his losses so he wouldn't look weak in the regional stage. Fortunately, legionaries are trained in the art of the march. They can operate for a week without support from slow food wagons, making them much faster than any of the troops that the locals have. Indeed, this lightning mobility accompanied by a screen of cavalry has been the main source of your success against your neighbours, who all have superior numbers.

(1) Which cohorts do you reposition to take west with you?

>COHORS SECVNDA GERMANORVM
Senior Centurion: Vaeli
947 Legionaries (heavy infantry) [Note: plurality Jewish]
Current location: Houguan (defending)


>COHORS QVINTA SINARVM
Senior Centurion: Gion
1031 Legionaries (heavy infantry) [Note: majority Sinaean]
Current location: Jian'an (defending)

>COHORS SEXTA SINARVM
Senior Centurion: Fa Xiuying
1007 Legionaries (heavy infantry) [Note: entirely Sinaean]
Current location: Alexandria Eskhata (drilling)

>COHORS GERMANORVM EQVITATA
Praefectus equitum: Hermann, Chieftain of Germans
123 German cavalry (light cavalry)
124 lance-bearers (specialised light infantry)
Current location: Houguan (horse breeding)

>EQVITES CATAPHRACTARII PARTHI
Decurio (leader of a turma, or squadron of horsemen): Ariamnes I
20 cataphractarii (heavy cavalry)
Current location: With you

(2) What invasion route do you plan out?

>COASTAL
Using the newly strengthened Houguan fleet based in the Oak-Heart Garrison as the main logistical support, you march down south to coastal Tong'an.

>INLAND
Take the rest of Yuzhang, depriving Liu Yao of crucial farmlands, cutting off his food supply.

>OTHER
Gimme a descript, map, etc.

>>3596967
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PxZov8-DBHo

Do we have any idea what kind of force he has?

>>3596989
Hmm

>>3596967
(1)
>COHORS SECVNDA GERMANORVM
>COHORS GERMANORVM EQVITATA
>EQVITES CATAPHRACTARII PARTHI
(2)
>Inland

>>3596967

>COHORS SECVNDA GERMANORVM

>COHORS QVINTA SINARVM

>COHORS GERMANORVM EQVITATA

>EQVITES CATAPHRACTARII PARTHI

>Inland

>>3597008
That'll leave our lands nearly defenseless

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"You are not a very easy man to find."

Yue Quan looks up to find the foreigner prince, dressed simply in woolen white. He does not have any bodyguards with him, he notes. Even the old man with the regal bearing who never showed up without armour was not in his side this time. "The former Governor enjoyed feeding the fish in his pond," he replies. Breadcrumbs fall from his outstretched hand, disturbing the glassy surface of the water.

The foreign prince sits beside him, his feet mere centimeters from being wet. A sleek, white fish, curious about the flesh-coloured object, pops its mouth over the surface and nibbles at a toe, before darting away when it twitches.

"Three thousand against eleven," the Mohist speaks, unprompted. "It is an incredible feat. You must be proud."

"I have faced worse odds," he smiles. "What do you think of them, my legionaries?"

"The le-jun, they are... remarkable. But a great burden in the treasury." One year of non-stop training! There were professional soldiers in border regions, certainly, but they were the exception, not the norm. And Yue Quan saw the kind of training they did. Marching, carrying heavy loads, throwing javelins, and most perplexing of all, using shortswords. "Do you not think," he asks suddenly, "that the lack of reach will become an issue? The ge is the standard weapon for your enemies. They will be able to stab your men long before yours reach their lines."

He shrugs in a care-free sort of way, the golden brown locks of hair jumping up and down like tassels of threaded gold on his shoulders. "Shields," his reply is simple. "It worked," he adds.

That was the thing. Nothing in Yue Quan's book learning prepared him for this kind of soldiery, these silent, iron-clad warriors who could march in lines from the signal of warhorns. No giant fluttering flags to give commands, no loud war-cries. It was eery to see them in action.

It worked.

>>3597010
The only difference between my plan and your own is one Cohort. I prefer
those forces helping us prosecute the invasion, rather than sitting on the homefront.

>>3597011

The Mohist wishes he was there to see three thousand men defeat ten and one thousand. Not likely, he thinks to himself. He had betrayed his liege lord after realising that only blood and fire awaited those who resisted this eminently prepared army at his gates. When he surrendered to the foreign prince, he did not put his own survival as part of the condition. For months, he had been expecting a summons to the palace, then a swift execution. A traitor's end.

"I came here for a reason," the foreign prince's voice broaches through his morbid daydreaming.

"Liu Yao," Yue Quan guesses, and is validated with a nod. He sighs. "This is going to be difficult. The man is technically the governor of Yang Province, as you know."

"Yes, the personal representative of your Emperor and all that," he says with a smile.

Your Emperor.

He grabs a handful of the breadcrumbs and tosses them into the pond, causing a brief frenzied battle underwater. "It has not stopped the Suns from attacking him though, has it?"

No, it hasn't. "Twenty thousand troops," Yue Quan says instead of voicing such treacherous thoughts against the Emperor. "Liu Yao is able to raise twenty thousand militiamen. He already lost most of his active troops from that battle, so they will be reserves. Garrison troops. The old and the young, conscripted for the purpose."

"Twenty thousand. And this does not include logistics personnel and other non-combatants?" he asks.

"I've noticed that you don't count them in the army total, so I've done the same," he replies.

"Twenty thousand..."

The foreign prince enters a pensive mood. Yue Quan stays, not feeling very hungry. Prisoners are given some leeway in choosing their final meals before the execution. He could eat then.

It is evening when the foreign prince stirs from his deep thoughts.

"Thank you, Yue Quan. Report to the Governor's palace by dawn tomorrow. Bring anything you will be needing for travel."

Travel. Yue Quan looks at the departing prince. "So, it's banishment then?"

"What are you talking about?" he replies with puzzled voice, turning around. "You are coming west with me. I need my advisors to become familiar with how my troops work, after all."

Looks like we're decided on Inland route, just need to decide which cohorts to bring.

>>3597013
A single, half-trained cohort that's not even on the mainland. If this is how it's going to happen, we should at least move that cohort from the island back to the Oak-Heart Garrison, where it will be better able to respond to threats

>>3597030
Oi, I left the training Cohort on the island

>>3596967
>EQVITES CATAPHRACTARII PARTHI
>COHORS SEXTA SINARVM
>COHORS QVINTA SINARVM

>>3596967
>COHORS SECVNDA GERMANORVM
>COHORS QVINTA SINARVM
>COHORS SEXTA SINARVM
>COHORS GERMANORVM EQVITATA
>EQVITES CATAPHRACTARII PARTHI
We do not have enough men to enjoy the luxury of leaving a large portion behind as a defensive force. If we are to attack it must be with full commitment.

>>3597008
Support

>>3597068
I remember Fortuna saying we needed a garrison in our territory if we wanted to keep control of it

>>3596967
>COHORS SEXTA SINARVM
>COHORS QVINTA SINARVM
>EQVITES CATAPHRACTARII PARTHI

Vote tallies

>COHORS SECVNDA GERMANORVM IIII
>COHORS GERMANORVM EQVITATA IIII
>EQVITES CATAPHRACTARII PARTHI IIIII
>COHORS QVINTA SINARVM IIIII
>COHORS SEXTA SINARVM III

Caesar will be bringing the second, fifth, and sixth cohort as well as the Parthian and German equites for the campaign against Liu Yao.

Writing

>>3597508
*should be second and fifth, not sixth

>>3597508
Fortuna, was anon accurate at >>3597082?

>>3597598
No, you need a garrison in a commandery (yeah I'm returning to each grey-boundaried administrative region being a commandery because I fucked up earlier by calling them counties) if you want to make sure you can respond ASAP to rebellions. It's not a hard requirement, but it helps a bunch.

It should be fine if you're home by Christmas, since most peasants are busy harvesting at this time. If they don't want to starve and see next spring, they need to start labouring on the fields. Not a whole lot of time to start rioting and rebellion.

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>>3597606
>It should be fine if you're home by Christmas
......

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>>3597606
>It should be fine if you're home by Christmas
Oh dear.

>>3597606
>It should be fine if you're home by Christmas
Christ not that old chestnut.

>>3597606
>It should be fine if you're home by Christmas

Famous last word.

Also, where I took the garrison thing from

>[Moderately fortified, the garrison is nevertheless lacking in actual troops. Tzi's informant counts only three large ships currently moored, the rest being away chasing waegu away. Taking this place automatically puts Face-of-Morning under your control and the surrounding lands under your control, as long as you have an army afterwards to exert your own influence.

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Hoping to resolve the matter before the onset of winter, Caesar made the gamble of rallying almost all of his defensive forces into one, aggressive strike. He would join the cohorts already in Yuzhang Commandery and march west to wrest control of the expansive farmland that lay in the western part of the county.

---
Nanchang, Yuzhang Commandery

"We have left our mainland holdings defenceless," You say matter-of-factly, pointing out the location of your field camp on the sparsely detailed map of southern Sinae kindly donated by the former Governor. It does not show geographic features or specific distances, but it seems to be more up to date than any of your other maps that Lady Tzi was able to procure. "This is to ensure we conclude taking over the critical food supply for Liu Yao before harvest season arrives. I would prefer to take the farmlands intact, but if that proves difficult, we will burn and raze the crops before withdrawing back east."

Your hands trace the rough approximations of Sun Jian's territory. "One factor that is advantageous to us the ongoing civil war to the north. The Suns won't be able to divert their troops to retake the territories we took from them, as they are locked in battle with Liu Biao, who is a major warlord unlike Liu Yao."

Hermann raises a hand, and you give him the go-ahead. "Liu Yao is allied wih Liu Biao in the fight against the Suns," he asks. Someone actually read the dossier you prepared before the meeting! "Are they brothers? Relatives?"

"A very good question," you reply. "Yue Quan?"

The Sinaean strategist stands up, coughing to steady his voice. He was one of the first to be conversational in Greek, and he was quite good, if heavily accented. "The Lius are a well-connected family. It was a Liu who built the Han Dynasty, and the founding Emperor's policy was to send his kinsmen to various military posts, especially ones that involved governance of distant regions. It was thought that Lius would attack Lius less, and... that has held more or less true, with a handful of exceptions. Liu Biang and Liu Yao are only tenuously related, and one would have to trace the family tree very far indeed to see where their ancestors diverge."

>>3597606
>It should be fine if you're home by Christmas
Yeah not falling for that one again

>>3597633

"In other words, it is an alliance of political and military convenience, not a familial tie," you finish.

"Won't Liu Biao come to Liu Yao's defence?" Galen asks.

"His chief interests are two things. One, to take away the incredibly valuable Poyang region from Sun Jian," you tap at the iron-rich, industrialised Commandery, "and secondly, to find allies in his stand off against the Yuans in the south. I believe that if we neuter Liu Yao quickly enough, he will be forced to consider us as his military partner, lest we join the Suns."

"So this is why you took everything you had for this campaign." Xanthippos says. "A bit risky, isn't it?"

"The alternative is to let go of this chance. Distracted neighbours to the north and east, a weakened neighbour to the east. It is near harvest season, and Liu Yao relies on Yuzhang to feed his soldiers, through the winter, especially after he lost half of Nanhai." Risky? Hell yes. But war is ever a gamble. If you had never risked anything in your life, you would never have become the Caesar that you are. "I know what you are thinking. Won't they just raid our lands instead? They could try, certainly. But their armies were geared toward Poyang-centric campaign with Yuzhang as the main granary, with all their maps and roads prepared for that end. They do not have the time to find a new path east to either Houguan or Jian'an, and if they did, they would find themselves encircled very quickly."

"This means we will be encountering the bulk of Liu Yao's forces once we arrive in western Yuzhang," Hermann notes. "It will be a major battle."

"And that's just the way we want it," you smirk. "One, smooth, clean beheading. I don't want messy spillovers or long chases. We end Liu Yao there, we end his power projection for the next generation. Good observation, Hermann."

He only nods, his ever icy eyes never leaving your face. That should have answered most of the questions, you think. But you ask anyway. "Any more questions?"

>Got questions?

>>3597628
I think that was in context of being able to project military power and cutting off Sun Jian's main (again military) powerbase this far south.

>>3597616
>>3597621
>>3597625
>>3597628
>>3597635
Hey, wasn't me who voted to take literally everything and head west! I am sure much !!FUN!!fun will be had by all, filled with merry Christmas cheer.

I think if we defeat him in the field and kill him, we can make the rest of his land bow down without further bloodshed.

>>3597648
>Got questions?
Is the current plan only to seize Yuzhang, or to conquer Liu Yao's lands in their entirety?

>>3597648
How will our citizens react to this military incursion? They were applauding us for not taking sides, and now we are embroiled in a conflict

>>3597654
>Hey, wasn't me who voted to take literally everything and head west!
>t. coward who ruined Schlieffen's perfect, 100% infallible, 10000% war-winning plan

>>3597683
I suppose we'll see

>>3597648
What sort of troops can we expect him to field? More peasant levies, or maybe something more formidable?

>>3597711
Answered >>3597011 >>3597014

>>3597676
>>3597683
"One of the biggest reasons the peasants were supportive of our administration was the lack of wars disturbing their work. Do you think there might be increased disturbances in the commanderies, now that we are starting to expand"

Everyone turns to stare at Ambiorix, who looks around defiantly. "What? I can read!"

"Yes, father-in-law, but we expected..." Hermann leaves the rest unfinished. Before the indignant Gaul could be bullied more, you raise a hand to get their attention again. "A good question, and politically astute, Ambiorix."

"Surprisingly so."

"I heard that."

"But the biggest reason these peasants fear war is because of the conscription," you steamroll over the side discussion. "As long as we don't start taking complete amateurs to fight, it won't come to civil unrest as long as we return by winter solstice. And if we aren't home by then," you smile tightly, "we will be too dead to care how they feel."

"What's the end goal here?" Xanthippos asks. "Let's say we defeat Liu Yao's forces. Maybe even push them away from Yuzhang completely. We hardly have the manpower to defend this new region, nevermind defend against the ongoing conflict between the Suns and Liu Biao. Are we going to kick them in the shins and then return? Or are you planning long term occupation?"

>Vassalise Liu Yao
>Conquer all of Liu Yao's territories
>Beat Liu Yao up and then go back home
>Other

>>3597711
>No, it hasn't. "Twenty thousand troops," Yue Quan says instead of voicing such treacherous thoughts against the Emperor. "Liu Yao is able to raise twenty thousand militiamen. He already lost most of his active troops from that battle, so they will be reserves. Garrison troops. The old and the young, conscripted for the purpose

Conscript, a sudden slashing attack from the north east, the Christmas mention....
This all sound awfully familiar....

>>3597716
I say take the land Bordering our own and vassalize the rest.

>>3597716
>Conquer all of Liu Yao's territories

>>3597716
Ranked in terms of priority

>Kick the teeth in of Liu Yao's forces, showing that our borders are not to be trifled with or treated as lines drawn in sand
>Create a lasting blow limiting the war-making abilities of our neighbors, by way of either annexing the farmlands or razing them
>Take control of ALL of Liu Yao's holdings

>>3597736
Not sure if we really want to damage the lands heavily, it’s all important manpower and ressources reserves for us.

>>3597716
>Annex Tong'an
>Display military superiority in the field to both enemies and "allies"
>Seize copper mines of Yuzhang
>Puppet the rest of the territory

>>3597716
>Priority #1: Conquer Liu Yao's copper-producing land
>Priority #2: Conquer the rest of Liu Yao's territory
If we can capture him alive and extort a formal gift of his authority to us in writing, that would be ideal.

>>3597744
Obviously annexation would be preferable, and even if we did raze them I'd rather it be of the "significant looting" variety over the "salt the women and rape the fields" variety.

>>3597753
I would add taking his farmland in priority as well, otherwise support.

>>3597764
Priority 1*

>>3597764
Works for me. I'd like to take everything really, just broke it up since acquiring mineral wealth seems like it should be our top concern now.

>>3597753
Support

>>3597731
>>3597732
>>3597736
>>3597753
Regarding the "conquer ALL of Liu Yao's lands" bit. If you have your sights for the rest of it, do you have a coherent plan? What I've written above in-character was primarily for the battle ahead, not total conquest.

>>3597949
I was under the impression that if we defeated him again, he would only have token force defending his land.

>>3597949
We simply blitzkrieg across his lands using our victories to encourage surrender.

>>3597964
Then with the new food and iron we can raise more leigons! As long as we do it quick enough we should be able to defend

>>3597964
>>3597953
Hmm, let me put it this way. There is a difference between defeating an enemy, and conquering his lands on a medium to long term basis.

>>3597949
I'm with >>3597953 in wondering what further we need to plan for. My impression was that this battle would wipe out his remaining forces significant enough to oppose us, and we could from there spread our administration around the newly acquired land. We had very few troops when we captured Oak-Hear Garrison, yet we've been able to administer this area well so far; my assumption was that we could continue growing similarly.
If administrating Liu Yao's land is too much for our forces, one step to take might be inviting Shi Xie to take the northern half of Nanhai, which province is presently divided between his and Liu Yao's forces.

>>3597972
Or, to rephrase my point in answer to this one, there is indeed a difference. But is it an insurmountable one? Do we absolutely lack sufficient troops to garrison Liu Yao's lands and integrate them into our state?

>>3597972
Lets take the lands fully and start training more leigons. Lets try and recruit people who are intested after leaning how well they did and not use conscription.

>>3597973
Sun Jian's reaction had to be tempered as he was already preparing for the northern expedition with the rest of the Coalition. Liu Yao has sent nothing for that purpose, but more importantly, Liu Biao, allied with Liu Yao (please refer to the political map here >>3591225) is focused on stalling the growth of Yuans' influence (the Suns are under the Yuans at this point in time).

The coming battle will decide whether Liu Yao has enough soldiery to mount an offensive against you or not. And yes, he scraped away most of his garrison soldiers as well for this, since the farmlands are crucial. But have you accounted for possible reaction from other factions in play once you extend the campaign from being a blitzkrieg to a more conventionally paced whack-a-fortress throughout almost two counties, while gaining new directly bordered neighbours? Is there a particular order of movement you want to go in? We're talking most of Yuzhang, Luling, Tong'an, and half of Nanhai here. Do you have a roadmap for troop movement in subjugating these commanderies? Specifics, not generalities.

>>3597991
It will take time for the Suns to reply to your offer of iron trade, especially since the iron-producing region is currently embroiled in conflict.

By the way, it's perfectly fine if you don't have a roadmap planned or anything. I just prefer having as much information as possible so I don't potentially screw over players by placing the characters/units in X when they would have preferred they be put in Y.

(Gonna go to sleep, will check on thread tomorrow)

>>3598007
It is difficult to draft a detailed plan without detailed information on the fortresses we are to assault. The map you have given us shows only three fortresses under the control of Liu Yao:
Nanchang fortress in Yuzhang and two unnamed fortresses, one in Luling and one in Tong'an. There seems to be no fortress in Nanhai which Liu Yao controls. So, if there are more matters to consider, please enlighten me with a more detailed map.
To work from what we have, however, this is my plan.
March immediately to the aid of our troops in Yuzhang, crush Liu Yao's field army and capture Nanchang.
Leave a sufficient garrison to defend Nanchang and from there march southeast to Tong'an and capture Liu Yao's coastal fortress.
Finally, if we have sufficient remaining troops after garrisoning that fortress and the battles we have fought along the way, march west into Nanhai and northwest to the fortress of Luling.

I don't think it's prudent to write up some grand battleplan, because ultimately it is not our job, but the information given to us gives us a few very clear goals.

If we want this "war" to be done quickly, we can either march directly to the field army of Liu Yao like this anon said>>3598024 or we capture the copper mines, important pastures and the tool district and cut off the province of many of its important goods and watch the rest implode on itself

I am hesitant leaving so many forces as garrisons because of the fact that eventually numbers do trump skill

>>3595168
>The natives have begun erecting little shrines of a little "War-God Who Brings Prosperity" in their sacred sites.
Do you plan on introducing any named islander characters?

>>3596860
Where are the taiwanese bowmen, Fortuna? Did they get integrated somewhere? Islanders were good scouts and forestry units, it would be a shame to lose them.

>>3599132
>>3598024
>To work with what we have
That's what I was asking, I unfortunately do not have the know-how to draft an even more detailed and accurate map (the one I'm using I pilfered from online resources), broad ideas and suggestions to help me move the armies around

>>3599142
>named islander
Yes
>where are the bowmen
...I completely forgot about them. Do you want them to be present in your western expedition?

>>3599201
>Do you want them to be present in your western expedition?
Lets take Bunun bowmen/scouts with us. Given their background they are likely no good at guard duty. Or are they? Have we been civilizing our more tribal forces?

Are the Atayal part of a cohort now too? I would keep them as they were, in the role of a specialized guerrilla unit.

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>>3599201
>broad ideas and suggestions to help me move the armies around
Coincidentally TW: Three Kingdoms came out recently. One could appropriate unit icons from it as well as from Rome II and use them to simulate army movement alongside direction arrows.

But I honestly can't figure which province we're attacking, lol.

>>3599208
They're considered auxiliaries and not part of the legion proper, because of (as you say) their specialised functions.

By the way, am I understanding correctly from >>3598024 in thinking that you do not want to fuck over the food supply for Liu Yao and instead opt for southeastern focus?

Give me a few, I'll try to make a better annotated map

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>>3599216
>By the way, am I understanding correctly from >>3598024 in thinking that you do not want to fuck over the food supply for Liu Yao and instead opt for southeastern focus?
I like this >>3598024 anon's general plan. But if you say that it will take longer than until new year or we won't have the army to maintain the new borders then we will revise it.
As for food supply, I don't see the purpose if we are aiming to strike fast and win a decisive battle against the biggest enemy force there.

>>3598024

>>3599216
Im voting for this anon as well to speed it along

>>3599241
Refresher legend for those who haven't been following the map

Light Green = Liu Yao, the guy you have the Grain Grudge against

Light Blue = Sun Jian, you sent him some grain shipment to assist on Guangdong Coalition war against Dong Zhuo, but also kind of stole two of his commanderies (Jian'an and Houguan). Unofficial truce after your gifting.

Purple = Liu Biao, the single largest warlord in your neighbourhood, though he doesn't have a lot of allies. Hasn't even heard of you. Has a deal with Liu Yao to beat Sun Jian's forces up while the man himself is up north trying to kill Dong Zhuo.

Grey = Yuan Shu, brother to Yuan Shao. Well-populated lands, ties to Yuan Shao who is located in the far north and is the most powerful warlord at this time in entire China (see population centre map). Overlord of Sun Jian (Light Blue).

So the way I interpreted the vote to

a)go fully inland, and

b)bring almost everyone with

was to scrape up everything you had, head direct west where Liu Yao's forces are gathering (to assist with Liu Biao in beating up Sun Jian's forces) and in one, climactic smash, cripple Liu Yao's offensive capabilities.

My question was, what next? Once Liu Yao's forces are broken, you have a small but crucial time table to make key changes in Liu Yao's territories (such as wreck havoc in the farmlands in western Yuzhang, see Rice icon) or take the copper mines in southeastern Yuzhang to start producing your own coinage.

Due to the nature of blitzkrieg, it is better to do things as quickly as possible. You could plausibly do both Rice and Copper Mines, if you split your forces, but going all the way from defeating Liu Yao's forces in Yuzhang and then marching south to get Copper Mine as well as entire Tong'an would be a reach, at least if you want to make sure this ends cleanly and neatly before winter solstice.

The reason I emphasise on winter solstice is not only because of unfavourable weather changes that will come (there is a reason armies of antiquities literally wintered the winter away) but also the fact that the longer you dally outside your territories with almost all your forces, the higher the chance of getting fucked by people taking advantage of empty garrisons in your own lands.

As always, I am open to criticisms, alternate interpretations that you feel might make more sense, and other input.

>>3599251
Would it be reasonable to take the cooper mines and then tong'an for the better blacksmiths and more population for soldiers and be back for winter?

We can then offer Liu Yao vassilization under us or be removed completely.

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>>3599259
If you mean the Toolmakers, they're good for civilian stuff but can't make weapons or armour. There are separate icons for both. What I'm worried is that you might get bogged down in the west more than you expect it to be. Liu Biao is an unknown at this point; he might reinforce Liu Yao and come east, or ignore the plight of his ally of convenience to focus on Poyang.

But if you did catch Liu Yao... well, that would change everything. Catching him and forcing him to kneel would make the rest of his territories open their gates, since there's no powerful secondary figure within his own ranks to rally them in the region. Some might hold out, or even defect to Liu Biao or Shi Xie, but "Going Home by Christmas" becomes even more likely even with the frankly ambitious goal of taking over all of Liu Yao's territories (sans minor fragments from holdouts/defectors).

>>3599268
Do we have spies who may be able to tell us the location of Liu Yao or are we gonna need to make spies in the future.

Yeah i do mean the tool makers. Well wither way if we know where Liu yao is I vote we try to make then bend the knee like we did in gaul or if we do not lets just do this
>>3599259

>>3599268
>tfw just found this census after establishing there's only 60k people in your two counties
I hate Chinese naming conventions so, so much. And these ones aren't even from the administrative grouping I am using right now, so I have to make even more guesses!

Ok, let's finalise the votes. I'll give this some time since other anons from last night should chip in instead of feeling like their votes were ignored. Please vote for the numbers that you want included in the war plan, IN the order that you would like them to occur. Not all numbers need to be used. The less numbers there are, the shorter time it will take.

EX: >1,4,2,3,9

>(1) March to western Yuzhang and attack Liu Yao's gathered army
>(2) March to western Yuzhang and burn/pillage Liu Yao's unharvested/in the midst of being harvested farmlands (time is late summer/early autumn)
>(3) March to Tong'an, take Toolcrafter resource
>(4) March to Tong'an, take City
>(5) March to southeastern Yuzhang, take over Copper Mines
>(6) March to eastern Luling, take Lumber resource
>(7) March to western Luling, take City
>(8) March to northern Nanhai, take Livestock rseource
>(9) March to southern Nanhai, take Port
>(10) March to western Poyang, attack Liu Biao's forces
>(11) March to western Poyang, attack Sun Jian's forces
>(12) March to western Poyang, attack both Liu Biao and Sun Jian after the respective forces battle it out and get worn out

You have no means of telling where Liu Yao is, he could be with the troops himself seeing as this is an important offensive for him (as per Chinese custom), or be sitting safe and tight in any one of these Fortress-Cities.

>>3599270
You have yet to establish a spying group.

>>3599282
>march to south eastern Yuzang, take over copper mines.
>March to Tong'an take tool crafter
>March to Tong'an take the city

>if they come to us attack Liu Yao's gathered army.

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>>3599241
So this is how I imagined using the cards. If I correctly assumed these armies are mostly peasant levies.

>>3599295
Very neat! Yes, ~80% of troop types will be peasant levies. Is there a particular method with which you made the coloured borders to show faction?

I was just using the NATO military designation (box with X being infantry, box with one line being cavalry) but this looks more useful.

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>>3599282
Lets cut Liu Yao's provinces north to south.

Is Nanchang already captured?
If it is, leave it under guard and proceed south and do what >>3599291 says.

>5, 3, 4 and be ready to face the western army.

>>3599298
It is a an editor filter to outline a selection so if you are using paint you could just draw a rectangle to envelop the card. If it is too much of a hassle, I won't hold it against you.

>>3599291
>>3599306
Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't we leaving our own forces divided if we don't start by marching to aid our troops in the field? That is, if we don't start with option 1.

>>3599282
>1,5,3,4

>>3599319
Sorry that I wasn't clear, it's my fault that I wasn't able to communicate the state of the field in hand. The 1st, 3rd, and 4th cohorts (the ones who faced off 11k earlier) overwhelmed Liu Yao's vanguard forces which were in eastern Yuzhang and trying to get more grains from western Jian'an. They proceeded to counterattack into Liu Yao's territory, seizing up to Nanchang.

The forces you brought then met them up in Nanchang, which is why Galen (who was leading 1st, 3rd, and 4th cohorts) as well as Ambiorix (Gallian equites were the ones who noticed Liu Yao's militiamen crossing borders, and alerted the other cohorts) were in your briefing room.

You have everyone with you in Nanchang. Galen didn't go west to chase the remnants of the 11k because he didn't want to get isolated in enemy territory without backup.

>>3599306
>hassle
I might make separate cards for them during the weekend once I survive the weekdays. Shame there's no fully armoured cataphract icon in the thingamajig...

>>3599319
No we already defeated one army at the city option one would be marching our forces to smash the other army they have in the west
There is currently no battle occuring.

The main benifit to smashing the army is we will ruin their offensive capabilities and potenitally take/kill their leader if they are there.

>>3599327
Alright, thanks. I'll stick with my earlier vote, though. It feels like we'll be leaving ourselves too open to attack if we don't break their forces before we start going around taking resources and citadels.