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Your name is Shu, and a hangover is the last thing you expected to deal with in the post-apocalypse.

Sprawled out on a bed that could easily sleep four, you squint at the light seeping in from your partially-cracked bedroom door. Sharply inhaling your first breath of morning air, you seize up when you catch the unexpected scent of sizzling butter, cooking eggs, and…bacon? You rise, bleary-eyed as you stumble out of bed and open the living room door. The sight that greets you is a domestic one; Rath busies herself with setting the table,while November carries plates of cooked biomass to her niece’s side, as Dorian and Julia work at fixing multiple plates of delectable breakfast foods. You glance out at the bay windows to see the oppressively purple evening sky is apparently the Crucible's flavor of the month, and you turn at the sound of clattering blades and crackling flames emanating from the Forge room.

You peek inside and the translucent form of Claire waves back, her arm twisting into a crystalline blade to carve off a sliver of meat from the corpse of a dead Amalgam crumbled beside her and appears to be using the newly-lit Forge as an impromptu grill, fitted with several crystal stakes lined with select cuts of the Amalgam's flesh. Her amorphous body jiggles as she turns to you, giving you an airy wave and a full view of the pair of vodka bottles suspended in her stomach, their contents slowly filtering into her system.

“Uh…hey. When did you get in?” You begin, wiping the sleep from your eyes as a thought occurs to you. “Actually, *how* did you get in?”

“Ooh, I slipped in through the usual cracks about two hours ago.” She explains in her odd, warbling tone. “Ssorry I missed the party. Tthought I’d cook up my recent hunt to make up for losing track of time, brought my recent kill and took out a big bird that I saw nearby…hhope that’s okay.”

You're about to speak when a voice calls out from behind you.

“Shu! Good Morning!” Rath says a little too loudly, enthusiastically waving as she darts to your side with November ducking into the Forge after her. “So, uh…November and I talked last night, and she told me everything...about her, about you knowing, and...”

“Yeah…yeah, I knew.” You say guiltily, glancing between the young woman before you and the metal warrior to her right, and back again. “You have every right to be upset, and I…”

You're wholly unprepared when Rath lunges, throwing her arms around your torso in a deep, grateful hug.

Previous Vein: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/3553578/

Archive: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=Body%20Horror%20Quest

Character Abilities: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15ctgm_liaNO0e0B6zAcIUrmfDN0tWiXds3L4FvogI2M/edit#gid=0

Trypophilic Hive, Ver. 2: https://pastebin.com/SJ5wvFxr

Relics: https://pastebin.com/8qNSREwW

Twitter: https://twitter.com/bodyhorrorquest?lang=en
>>
File: Heather and Rachel.jpg (77 KB, 600x600)
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“Shu, why the hell would I be mad?" She asks, looking up at you. "I…I totally get it. Aunt Heather told me that she asked you to keep it a secret, and you stayed true to your word. Shit, if it wasn't for you, I wouldn't even be here, and I'd have...I'd have died without ever knowing that some part of my family was still..."

November's taloned hand finds her niece's shoulder, giving it an affectionate squeeze before kneeling beside Rath.

“Given some recent re-assessments, I would like to offer my services to your cause, Shu…if you’ll have me, that is.” She intones, her voxel-distorted voice crackling in time with the Forge's unnatural heat. "You extended the offer once before, and I was afraid. You gave me courage that day, and I have your words to thank for bringing Rachel and I to this point. So please, I want to help in any way that I can."

You take her offered hand with a smile, pulling up and prompting her to rise to her full height, illuminated in the hearth's glowing embers.

“It would be an honor." You say earnestly. "Glad to have you, Heather.”

>>NOVEMBER HAS JOINED THE PARTY

>>November’s Abilities: https://pastebin.com/gYYErPQh

“So, if it’s alright with you I’d like to tell the others on my own time…is that cool?” Rath asks, hands behind her back nervously. You nod, and she breaks out in a relieved smile before her eyes go wide with an idea. She fishes in her pocket, retrieving the three shimmering Forge crystals that you gifted her the day before, turning them over in her palm before meeting your gaze with her citrine eyes.

"Aunt Heather let us use the Core of her tank to make breakfast, but I kinda wanted to run an idea by you." She begins, glancing between you and her Aunt. "What do you say to re-making the Tier-3 Core and letting her have it? Or even just a Tier-2, and we use the other one to have our own Forge here? It'll make her stronger, and we can swap them out as we need to!"

You ponder it a moment before looking up at November, and you're treated to the sight of her throwing up her clawed hands in deference.

"Hey, don't look at me!" She says with a crackling chuckle. "I gave you that Core in good faith, and how to use it is up to you. I'm good with what I've got...with who I've got."

She puts an arm around Rath's narrow shoulders and hugs her lightly, and you stare into Rath's eyes as you weigh how to proceed from here.

>>Decide what to do with the three Forge Gems you have.

AND

>>Go ahead and get seated. You're starving, and the smell of food and the scent of freshly-brewed coffee that Julia's somehow scrounged up are too good to pass up.

>>The Midnight Crew don't seem to be up yet, so you may as well take a moment to inspect the hidden room from earlier before you settle down to talk shop over breakfast.

>>Go and wake the Midnight Crew so they don't miss the good eats your team has lined up, and grab Magpie from wherever she's holed up, as well.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
>>3570740
>>NOVEMBER HAS JOINED THE PARTY
Yay! November is cool, I'm glad she's on the team now. And she uses a parallel upgrade track to the rest of the party, giving us interesting new mechanics to play with. Wonderful.

>>Decide what to do with the three Forge Gems you have.
Upgrade November to Tier Three. As Rath says, with her on the team we'll be able to swap them over any time we actually need higher-Tier Forge services. And given the raid we're planning, we might get another Core out of it anyway. Besides, Cyborg Aunt deserves it.

>>The Midnight Crew don't seem to be up yet, so you may as well take a moment to inspect the hidden room from earlier before you settle down to talk shop over breakfast.
Open the mystery box while we have the chance. Then, assuming what we find in there isn't too world-shattering of a reveal, wake up the rest of our guests for breakfast.
>>
>>3570740
>>Give November the Tier 3 core but plan to use it first.
I get making her stronger but we have a forge right in front of us and are about to go on a raid, some Upgraded and new gear would go a long ways to helping with that.

>>Go and wake the Midnight Crew so they don't miss the good eats your team has lined up, and grab Magpie from wherever she's holed up, as well.
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open for the next two hours. I hope you are all having a good day, and it's good to be back.)
>>
>>3570740
>Give November a Tier-3 Forge Core
>Inspect the hidden Room.

Also, Screw with the Core Console and make the following changes:
>Playground gets removed, but the Fuzzbuzz Ball-pit gets to stay.
>the two L-couches are removed or pushed to the corners
>Set up a breakfast bar (buffet style) for Claire to set her cooked goods
>Buffet tables
>The window gets blinds/curtains to help those who still suffer from the hangover.
>Install a Ventilation system that wafts the smell and sound of sizzling hot breakfast into the bedrooms of the people that still slept. It should help them wake up faster.
>>
>>3570748
>Checks November's Char sheet
>Plasma Winchester Shotgun
>Gundam Vector thrust backpack
>Browning Machinegun
>Autumn Protocol
Nice.
Hmm.... Is that the Vector Cannon from Zone of Enders 2?
I think we should take the time to upgrade her suit's integrity, not just November's Forge Core Systems. Maybe even forge her a new Forge Body-type. Like a Speed-type or an Aerial-type in-case her current suit gets too damaged for operation.
Also I think you've missed a prime opportunity for Robocop references.
>>
>>3570756
(She still has plenty of skills and reference to unlock, no worries.)
>>
>>3570756
>Hmm.... Is that the Vector Cannon from Zone of Enders 2?
Not without revolving the life ring. Whatever that is. Seriously, what the hell is a life ring and how does spinning it help you create a giant doom-beam?
>>
>>3570756
Well, maybe. Im still of the opinion we use the T3 core first before we hand it to her, and was hoping to use the opportunity to make forging things a collab with the Midnight Crew, but if we just hand it off to her i doubt the T1 she currently has is high enough grade for anything worth giving her.
>>
(For the sake of clarity, your decision to remake the Tier 3 Forge Core will not negate the ability to make new Relics before you head out; November will equip the stronger Core when you're done.)
>>
>>3570767
Hey Bhop, any new relics that we can forge with a T3 Core? Or did you not have time to balance out the new forge ideas yet?
>>
>>3570767
Fair enough.
also, would people wish for me to add November to the character sheet, or fine with it off? Her design while kickass, doesn't lend itself to needing to be consolidated nor easily upgraded in the same way as standard Daughters, making its format less useful for her. However i also understand wishing to have all the information in one place to save on how many tabs one has open, so om fone either way.

>>3570777
I don't think the list he gives us was ever the limit to what we can forge, only the known ones to our characters. We can always discover new ones or experiment, like rath and the whistle.
>>
>>3570740
November joined us.... Nice
>>She can have the tier 3 Forge Core. since she joined the Family we can probably get it back anytime without a big hassle if we want to forge
I do wonder though if we can take the tank with us into the Armory if we were inclined to take her with us on the raid

>>take a look at the Secret room we discovered during the preparations

>>Wake the midnight Crew and get Magpie so everyone can get some food

>>Then get seated and enjoy the morning after feeling, maybe open a window or something to let "fresh" air in
>>
>>3570779
I'd like to have the information all on one sheet, yeah. Like you said, cuts down on the number of open tabs needed.

As for Relics, what are we planning on making? I know that upgrades to Sui Tormentis and Cursus Alas are obvious choices, but does anyone have anything else in mind?
>>
>>3570787
Ive already got my idea pre written, but basically, without how to split the costs, it was upgrade Sui twice, Cursas once, then collab with the Midnight Crew to make 1-3 new items for each team.
>>
>>3570787

Well, there were a few relic ideas that were made in the past couple of veins, and I'm hoping on debating on wanting to craft them.
>>3570790

Do you think this would be a good collab piece with the Crew? Given the fact that the Crew lack any hp or bio-regen, this should help them with becoming more efficient with the actions they take per combat turn.

>HEN CORPORIS SONA SHIN: An oversized Belt buckle made out of bone. There is a curious empty slot on the belt buckle. The Buckle generates a ring of bone and fiber that circle and wrap themselves around the waist of the wearer when worn. The Wearer must then insert BIO (either a construct or a piece of their own flesh for classes that the ability to generate constructs) from their core class to activate the Belt's true function: Instantaneous Body Armor stylized and modeled after their core class, granting the wearer 200 additional bio, and an increased effectiveness in core class abilities and bio efficiency by 35%. Upon taking Lethal Damage or Critical Damage, the wearer can choose to negate all damage taken in exchange for Breaking the armor and losing the additional benefits, forcing the Relic into emergency cooldown and rendering it unusable for the rest the current combat with a cooldown period of 1 day. You may not be a hero, but using this relic sure makes you feel like one when you transform with it. (100% Virtruvian, 100% Generator, 100% Calcite Armory)
>Additional feature: (Base cost + 10% SkinTalker, 10% Phantasmal conduit): The belt now includes a transformation jingle that plays a class dependent tune when the daughter armors up. A rare and exquisite feature that lacks utility other than audible flair for the relic's activation, but worth the cost.
>>
>>3570790
I agree on the Tormentis and Cursus levels, I was thinking much the same myself. Improve Rath's ratio, let her spend it on armor and speed as well, and make Dorian even more of a speed demon. What are your thoughts for new Relics, though? I think something healing or bio-recovering could be good for the Crew. Some sort of Estus Flask-style thing where they can set aside resources at a Forge, let themselves regenerate out of combat, and use the stored for a quick recovery in a fight.
>>
>>3570798
Im unsure, as their playstyle lends itself it feels to more team oreinted ideas, and thats more of a 'guard this individual' relic than anything.

>>3570800
Honestly i was gonna just let the dice/IC decesions make the call, like when we just let Rath make whatever and got the whistle. The Kuolema rifle is the only one that really interested me out of the current list.
>>
>>3570809
OH!
We still owe Amara a FuzzBuzz buddy.
>>
>>3570818
I'm ready to sacrifice 100% bio just to make it a masterwork FuzzBuzz with all the augments and the ability to have it gain autonomy and talk.
>>
>>3570821
Same.
Otherwise, re-looking over the list, the only relic that might be worth making we already know about is the Vocalis Nocere for Amara, though not sure if it is worth it still.
>>
>>3570740

“Hhey, this has been real touching and stuff, but do you mind if I finish cooking for y’all?” Clare mumbles from behind you with a stake lined with raw meat, and you hastily oblige before shuffling out of the Forge room. Waving to Julia and Dorian, you stride over to the Core Console and make some minor quality-of-life adjustments to the living space, chiefly by making a buffet area for easy breakfast access, some blinds for the windows to hide the darkness outside, and collapsing the playground back into the walls and flooring.

The FuzzBuzz Fluff-Pit stays, though.

Lastly, you conjoin the hidden room to yours via a small passage before locking down the console, heading into the darkened room and shutting the door behind you. Proceeding through the narrow hall, you find yourself in an equally cramped room, twin shelves rising on either side of you with a desk-and-chair combo sandwiched between them.

Books, notes, and countless files array the space, neatly packed into the looming shelves. The shelf to your left is emblazoned with marked print that says ‘Declinations’, and is by far the most packed of the two. Scanning the titles, most of the ones on your left appear to be marked with a small, bloody thumbprint next to their names or crossed out entirely…they bear the names of women, Daughters like yourself. Your eye catches a pair of vaguely familiar titles emblazoned on side-by-side folders, ‘Lysergic Domina’ and ‘Hollowed Host’…the code-names of Mara’s allies during her assault on Kosi’s city.

The space to your right is nearly bare, a stark contrast to the other’s cramped shelving. A series of folders lean haphazardly against each other, their shelf labelled ‘Investments’. You thumb through them, taking notice of the titles…particularly the fact that files labeled ‘Magpie’, ‘Claire’, and ‘Shu’ are at the top of the pile. Finally, on the desk nestled between the shelves rests a small picture frame that holds a worn, weathered photograph depicting a pair of young women, roughly your age. Though tattered, you can make out a younger Mara standing side-by-side with a woman with a head of voluminous dark hair, both of whom are dressed in graduation gowns and matching caps. Tucked behind the frame is a small stack of folders labeled ‘Persistence Operations & Incubations’, and thumbing through them reveals such intimidating titles as “Vitruvian-Immortal”, “Vitruvian-Replicator”, “Predator-Turritopsis Dohrnii”, and “Fle…

…the last title has been messily torn off, the folder curiously empty.

A cursory test of the drawers reveals them to be empty, save for the right-hand one, which remains stubbornly locked.

>>Flip through some folders of your choice while you have a quiet moment.

>>Inspect picture frame.

>>Force the drawer open.

>>Go ahead and have breakfast with everyone.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Voting shall remain open for the next two hours. Also, the Forge process will be a rather open-ended affair, as without the Monastery Forge restrictions in effect, you may now posit other items of interest from older threads as possible Relics to be crafted. It will be a rather free-form process, and the voting period will likely be a little longer as a result since that will also be the time I will open up the team composition vote as well.)
>>
>>3570827
>>Inspect picture frame.
Okay. Declinations is those Daughters who either failed Mara's standard or are dead. Not much worth looking for in there. Investments is our group, probably would feel weird to go flipping through that. Persistence Operations and Incubations is Mara's search for a sustainable meat source: immortal Vitruvians, self-replicating Vitruvians, that Unnatural Predator is of a species of jellyfish with regeneration, the removed folder is probably "Flesh Artisan" of some sort. Again, nothing that I'm too interested in reading. Let's take a closer look at that picture, though. Is this who Mara lost and activated the Restore function on the Sparagmos Engine for?
>>
>>3570827
>> Inspect the Picture Frame there may be a name on the back of the Photograph that could give us a clue as to who the person in the frame is next to mara and maybe even if she is who Mara sacrificed the charge on the Engine for. Mabe she is/was maras Partner for a long time

>>Get the File Magpie and thumb through it, If it is relevant bring it up with Magpie later after Breakfast
>>Take a look at the Claire and Shu Files(just thumb through them to see when Mara became aware of us and through which means) while your at it and and see if it is something Claire might be interested in

>> We should probably leave the Drawer at least for now. It is probably something Mara left behind for us and will probably open/unlock at the time we are ready
>>
>'Declinations', 'Investments', 'Persistence Operations and Incubations'
Well that explains Mara's Business-like Mindset.
Declinations are probably daughters that either died or aren't promising enough. 'Investments' are daughters that showed Mara promise of potential. And then 'Persistence Operations&Incubations' are Mara's findings on trying to find a way to stall the hunger via live cannibalism.
>"Vitruvian-Immortal"
That's Isabelle.
>"Vitruvian-Replicator"
Mystery girl. Functions like Gretchen, but different.
>"Predator-Turritopsis Dohrnii"
Immortal Jellyfish. Probably Dr. West Prime.
>"Fle-[title torn off]
Mystery girl. First bit implies Flesh Artisan.

>>3570833
Well shoot. I've got a longer shift today so I might end up missing out on those votes. shame.

>>3570827
>Inspect picture frame.

>>3570838
I'd rather not bring up the whole "files" thing up to Magpie.
>>
>>3570827
Are Lysergic Domina and Hollowed Host crossed out or marked with a bloody thumbprint?

I'm thinking crossed out means dead and marked means alive and might be encountered.
>>
>>3570827
>>Go ahead and have breakfast with everyone.
I trust her enough to not care about all this personally.
>>
>>3570841
>>3570827
Changing my vote to
>Go ahead and have breakfast with everyone.
>>
>>3570843
(They are crossed out.)
>>
>>3570841
I would at least like to know if there is something there that might be good to know and might be relevant for Magpie though can understand where you are coming from, it could seriously weaken the Trust we have gained with Magpie so far

While I would be willing to let that go, I still would like to look at the picture frame and see if there are names there (at most a 10 seconds investment and then we can go and have breakfast)
>>
>>3570841
I don't think it would be West Prime since she has a jellyfish Hive Mistress, not a jellyfish Unnatural Predator (to our knowledge).

If it is a real daughter instead of just speculation on mara's part, I wonder if we'd meet her in loli form due to her power reversing her age?
>>
>>3570827
>Flip through some folders of your choice while you have a quiet moment.
Folders labelled "Declinations" with the bloody thumbprints and those labelled "Persistence Operations & Incubations", in case we run into any of them and where we may be most at risk to do so. If the Crew is in the declinations, skip them though.
>Inspect picture frame.
>>
>>3570833
Oh neat. Well ill have to dig up my relics list if i have time.

>>3570851
If we're going to look through ANYONES file, let them look through it and know about it first, unless we simply do not care about that person trusting us.
>>
>>3570827
>>3570869
Taking this into consideration....
Amending my Vote
From >>3570838
to
>> Inspect the Picture Frame there may be a name on the back of the Photograph that could give us a clue as to who the person in the frame is next to mara and maybe even if she is who Mara sacrificed the charge on the Engine for. Mabe she is/was Maras Partner for a long time

>>Ask Magpie and Claire if she knows about the File on them and if they wish to do something about it or would consider letting us look through it
>>See if we can find a file on the Midnight Crew and proceed with it like we did with Magpies and Claires
>>Take a look at the Shu File(just thumb through them to see when Mara became aware of us and through which means) while we are at it

>> We should probably leave the Drawer at least for now. It is probably something Mara left behind for us and will probably open/unlock at the time we are ready
>>
>>3570878
I don't think the drawer will unlock on its own, but I do expect that it's got some mechanism in there so that anything inside would be damaged by forcing the lock. A little acid vial, something like that. We'll have to find the key instead of just smash it open.
>>
>>3570787
Oh right, forgot to ask, what color should November's sheet be?
>>
>>3570933
Something akin to raths colours i reckon maybe more into the blue
>>
>>3570933
Red, I guess, for the rust and fire. Speaking of which, can November benefit from Sisters' Constellation? Because if so, that would fix a lot of her weaknesses. Just have Rath give her a fiery healing hug every now and then.
>>
>>3570936
(She can, yes.)
>>
>>3570936
That just recharges November's HP pool which she uses for power. Her real health is her Bio meter or her suit integrity.
....
We need Nanomachines, son. Nanomachines for November.
>>
>>3570941
Nice. Okay, aunt and niece power team is go. They're even both armored figures with fire attacks, we've got a family resemblance.

>>3570947
Yeah, but her Health is still important. It's good that she doesn't have to worry about it as much when Rath is around.
>>
>>3570934
So..a more pink side of purple?

>>3570936
Hrm, i can see what i can do but we already have alot of red.
>>
>>3570954
>Hrm, i can see what i can do but we already have alot of red.
Maybe a gunmetal grey, then?
>>
>>3570954
Yeah to make it more of a felshy contrast to her more metallic exterior
It could show that she is still human underneath it all
>>
>>3570960
I can see a rusty grey or something working yeah.
>>
And I have to leave for work.
I'm not gonna lie, the prospect of me missing out on something juicy as new info and forging new relics while on the job is something I will miss out on.
>>
>>3570970
Its ok, ill probably miss out on some things today too. Life's like that. Hope work goes well though!
>>
>>3570827

You gently pick up the frame from the tables dark, glossy surface and turn it over, sliding the cover back to reveal elegant handwriting on the back.

“To twelve years of friendship, four years of hell, and one of the best friends I could ask for. Take a bite out of the sharks for me, Mara, and when you hit it big think of me when you have accounts to open, ‘kay?”

“Love, Gwen”

You put it back down after inspecting the frame for any other bits and bobs, thumbing through one or two folders to find them filled to bursting with Mara’s cramped shorthand. Softly, the walls around you vibrate with Amara’s voice, carrying with it an alert that everyone’s up and ready for breakfast. At that, you turn, your bare foot nudging a scrap of paper that’s slipped under the right-hand shelving. You stoop down to pick it up and find it resembles something of a sticky-note, an addendum that you have to squint at to make out…

‘Abbey; nearing redemption period. Find suitable investment for upcoming deposit.’

A few moments later you re-emerge into the living room to find three of the four members of the Midnight Crew struggling into chairs, with Keane taking the head of the table facing away from the window and massaging her temples, eyes screwed shut while propped up on her sharp elbows. To her right, Quinn is just slumped in her seat, a thousand-yard stare fixed on the far wall as she heaves a heavy sigh that shows no signs of stopping. Keane and Ace seem in better spirits, the former bouncing up and down in her seat and surveying the magnificent spread of available foods while the armored warrior sizes up November, her expression inscrutable as she take a seat alongside Ace, with Rath beside her.
You take your place at the opposite head of the table across from Jackie after getting yourself a plate, and the moment you sit down a pair of Amaras scoot out the chair beside you to make way for a third, with the pair of clones rejoining their creator the moment they push her closer to you.

“You smell funny!” Amara declares, her newly-sensitive nose scrunched up at you. “Like the shooty-lady!”

“Oh…uh, thanks?” You say, not quite sure how to reply to that. “Where is Magpie, anyway?”

“Beats me. Can’t sense her. Think she left.” Jackie mutters, taking a long sip of coffee and groaning with satisfaction. You glance towards Amara and she inhales deeply, placing a finger to her lips as her cat-like ears twitch. She just shrugs as Jackie leans forwards, and you feel a small pang of disappointment at this revelation. “So, you wanna talk shop, or…?”

“If you’re up for it, then by all means.” You reply, stabbing your bacon on the tines of your calcite fork.

(Continued)
>>
>>3570997

“So here’s the deal. We got coordinates from a contact at Golgotha.” She begins, shoving half her omelet down her throat before continuing. “Checked it out, and it's legit. Well-hidden and super friggin’ hard to detect with Neuromancy or anything like that, so it’s secure and unopened.”

“How’d your contact find it, if I may be so bold?” Dorian asks, peering at Jackie from over his teacup as he blows to cool it down.

“She’s a Skintalker, runs an info-business trading favors for scraps of what she’s gleaned.” Jackie fires back. “When I first met you guys, my Crew and I just got through trying to convince one of the arena regulars who lives out east to give up the location of a Skintalker pal of his. Tried to play dumb, like I wouldn’t realize his ‘Augs were Skintalker buffs applied before the fights. Threatened to tell the refs about his bullshit, he got pissy, and we had it out.”

“…S-so what happened after all t-that?” Julia asks hesitantly, and Jack just chuckles.

“He’s alive, if that’s what you’re asking.” She says, thrusting another bit of egg into her mouth. “Refs broke us up, asked us to leave. Might have trouble at Golgotha if we go back, though.”

“Last thing, though; girl that discovered it is a solo kinda gal, and she was able to open the Armory with her powers. Got a peek inside, then shut that shit right back up and kept moving. Important bit is this…” Jack trails off, setting her obsidian gaze directly at the child beside you. “…the place responds to Skintalkers, so Amara’s gonna be key if we’re going to crack this thing wide open.”

There’s a small gasp beside you and you turn, catching Amara’s wide, shining gaze as a massive grin spreads across her face.

“I’m the Princess of Destiny.” She whispers in awe, barely able to contain her excitement. Keane starts to applaud, quickly stopping as Jack and Quinn give simultaneously pained groans.

“I’m not sayin’ we gotta leave right now, but I don’t want to sit on this for too long.” Jackie says, massaging her temples. “We got time before we head out, so if there’s anything you wanna clarify or hash out, I’m all ears.”

Jack shoots Keane a playful glare as the younger girl shrugs innocently.

“Just don’t say it to freakin’ loud, alright?” she finishes.

>>Compose your party of four (Midnight Crew is joining you for this session).

AND

>>What Relics do you Forge/improve?

OR

>>Forge ‘retroactively,’ putting the vote off until later.

ALSO, DECIDE HOW TO APPROACH THE ARMORY

>>Cut a path through Carroll's Forest to get to the Armory. It's by far the most direct route, and you’ll avoid complications with Golgotha and the DO’s.

>>Warp to Golgotha and circumvent Carroll's Forest entirely. Longer route, but less confrontation…hopefully.

>>Go to the Disassociated Ones and through the mountains to get to the armory.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Voting shall remain open for the next two hours, Gentlemen. Also, I do not have access to the new Dual Techs at the moment due to technical issues, but do know that there are four; Shu and Jackie, Dorian and Julia, Rath and November, and Amara and Keane.)
>>
>>3570998
>>Party:
Shu (Party Leader we have to take her Duh)
Amara(She is the Skintalker apperrantly that place likes them)
Rath(Damagedealer and some Healing)
Julia(Debuffers are a must for any raid)

I would like November with us but without more knowledge about the Conditions on the Ground she might be rather amiss in that situation if we can not get her Tank in there with her

>>Relics improvement
>>Sui Tormentis at least one Level
>>A Relic that increases regeneration(gonna need a lot of Vitruvian Biomass for that one)
>>Create a Relic for Amara with Neuromancy, Unnatural Predator and Skin Talker BIOMASS to increase her defenses and reflexes(maybe something like a necklace or a Ring/Earring)

>>Cut a path through the Forest it is the direct approach and we do not want any problems with Golgotha which might choose to lump us in with the Midnight Crew even if we try to explain the situation and we do not need them to be our enemies right now
>> The DOs are not really interested in stuff that does not concern them and they might simply choose to ignore us or they might get pissy that we tried to pass through their territory and accidentaly stumbled upon something they did not want us to see
>>
>>3570998
>Shu, Amara, November, Dorian
Amara is necessary, i wanna try out November, and i feel like Dorians fluidity would help us alot.

>>Cut a path through Carroll's Forest to get to the Armory. It's by far the most direct route, and you’ll avoid complications with Golgotha and the DO’s.

>Upgrade Sui Tormentis to level 3(total; 120% Calcite, 165% Fibromancer)
>>Calcite; 40%(60% Bio) Health from Julia, 40%(60% Bio) Health from Rath.
>>Fibromancer; 50% Bio from Shu, 40% Bio from Rath, 50%(75% Bio) Health from Rath.


>Upgrade Cursus Alas to level 2( total; 80% Hive Mistress, 40% Generator)
>>Hive Mistress; 40%(60% Bio) Health from Shu, 20% Bio from Shu.
>>Generator; 26%(39% Bio) Health from Rath, 1% Bio from Rath.

>Work together and/or with Midnight Crew to produce 1-3 new relics(per team), get creative but try not to gimp anyones stats too hard.

Sadly, i will be gone for a while today, so here is my relics list.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b_-8s0tin7DCQxITm6C69QULRnM_ibDfg18iV4dc7Fc/edit?usp=drivesdk

Most of the good new ones are at the bottom, im particularly proud of GUTGRAB DAGGERS and GUARDIANS HEART and would recommend both.
>>
>>3570997
>‘Abbey; nearing redemption period. Find suitable investment for upcoming deposit.’
Mara has a "broker" helping her find good prospects. Someone to investigate, I suppose, when we have the time. Though I'm a bit worried that Mara has redeemed investments before. I'm not sure what that means, in this metaphor. Hopefully just something like "allied Daughter assisted in acquiring useful resources". It can't be that sinister, or else Mara probably wouldn't have left the documents just lying around when she gave the keys to her house to us.

>“You smell funny!” Amara declares, her newly-sensitive nose scrunched up at you. “Like the shooty-lady!”
Damn it, Magpie pulled an Itachi, didn't she? She shoved a crow down Shu's throat while she was sleeping, and that's why we smell like her. Some sort of tracker or security measure or something. What the hell, Magpie? That better have been all you did, if it turns out that you vanished suddenly because you yourself are inside Shu I will be very cross.

>>3570998
> a Skintalker pal of his. Tried to play dumb, like I wouldn’t realize his ‘Augs were Skintalker buffs applied before the fights. Threatened to tell the refs about his bullshit, he got pissy, and we had it out.”
His? He? Another transman like Dorian, or the Crucible glitching and converting someone biologically male?

>>Compose your party of four (Midnight Crew is joining you for this session).
Okay, we have Escher's Gear, so the party we bring with us is not necessarily the party we use to raid the armory. We can drop a fast-travel point at the armory and quickly pop back to Lair to swap party members. So, with that in mind, I'd like to try out November. She's resistant to neurological attacks, that means Carroll's Forest shouldn't be able to affect her easily. And if it tries to mess with us, she can burn it down. Amara is also vital, her senses will make it easier to penetrate the illusions. And for our fourth...I'm going to say Dorian. He'll be able to move more easily in the forest than anyone else will, and he can make himself immune to illusions at the cost of blocking direct comms.

>>Cut a path through Carroll's Forest to get to the Armory. It's by far the most direct route, and you’ll avoid complications with Golgotha and the DO’s.

>>Forge ‘retroactively,’ putting the vote off until later.


>>3571005
Aww, Amara made a friend.
>>
>>3571042
I really like the Uzi as a way to make use of Excess Biomass and it could come in handy in close Quarters for someone woh is not wielding a weapon or hell even as a secondary weapon for Shu


Also a Relic i came up with that could help someone like Julia or Dorian by granting enhanced Regen while turning its wearer slowly into a monstrosity
Hydras Heart:
A relic in the form of a blood drop held by the coild form of a seven headed hydra.
This Relic while roughly the size of a small medal is worn on a necklace made from sinew and grants its wearer the ability to recover HEALTH at the cost of BIO with a ratio of 1 Bio to 5 Health while granting a passive regeneration Bonus of 10% per Round. Taking damage from attacks which cauterize the wounds the damage can not be regenerated in this manner while the wound remains cauterized (Vitruvian +60%, Unnatural Predator +40%)

Locked(Lvl 2); The pendant grows closer to its wearer integrating itself into the wearers skin right above their heart and increasing its regeneration bonus to 15% per Round and
staring to transform the wearers skin to scales. Just patches at first granting a minor boost to defense against piercing and slashing attacks (Base Cost+ Unnatural Preator +20%, Vitruvian 20%)

Locked(Lvl 3); Sinking beneath a layer of finely scaled skin the pendant comes to rest next to the wearers own heart. While not increasing regeneration its conversion rate of BIO to HEALTH goes to 1 BIO to 10 HEALTH. As teh wearers skin is replaced by scalesIt also grants an increased resitance to piercing and slashing attacks as well as poisons as it is driven out of the body by any way available(Level 2 Cost+ Unnautral Predator +20%, Calcite +10%, Vitruvian +30%)

Locked(Lvl 4); Replacing the Heart of the Wearer the Heart grant sits wearer to near instantaniously regenerate any and all limbs severed from the Body at a cost of 10% Bio per limb removing all status effects and undesireable constructs attached to the limb before destruction. The Wearer also becomes nearly immune to any form of Toxin while their skin toughnes into a strong scaled hide (Level 3 Cost+ Calcite +20%, Unnatural Predator +30%, Vitruvian +30%)

Locked(Lvl 5); Hybridizing comepletely with the wearer the pendant does not increase the wearers Health Regeneration any further but it now happens everytime they act in Combat as well as giving the Wearer a small boost to theier BIO regeneration (5%) per Round of Combat. The Wearer is also granted the ability of the terrifying Hydra of Myth every Extremity lost regenreates into two more extremitys if so desired with each limb after the first regenerated not costing BIO to create (Level 4 Cost+ Calcite +50%, Vitruvian +30%, Unnatural Predator +20%)
>>
>>3570998
>don’t forget to let them know how the threat system works
>>
>>3571068
We should also inform our party about the information Gina gave us about B'Ni, while we're on the topic of non-mission critical information sharing. Something like

>"I got in contact with Gina last night. She said that B'Ni was on the edge of the forest for some time, just standing there. She thinks that Mother was talking to her. After a couple hours of that, B'Ni started moving again, deeper into the forest. Mother also made some vague threats when Rath made her Choice, something about how while we were resting she would be acting. Taking that together, we need to consider that Mother may be aiding B'Ni somehow, planning on using her as an agent. Hopefully we won't encounter her on this mission, but be prepared for if she shows up."
>>
>>3571067
Would honestly work better on Rath or Julia, but not outright against it.

>>3571042
>>3570998
I guess while i have time, my vote/ideas are;
>A triple or double combined knighted-nomling with a GUARDIANS HEART for Amara. (I don't count this as one of the 1-3 because reasons)
>A set of GUTGRAB DAGGERS for Rath probably.
>Sure an Uzi too, probably good on jist about anyone.
>I can back up that Anons Amulet sure
>Then help the Midnight Crew with their ideas in exchange for help with ours, im thinking the Kite Shield or a variant would work well on Ace, though she might need a secondary weapon to use while its out.

Anyways, yeah good luck anons, not sure when or if ill be back today, so hope it all goes well you you all.
>>
>>3571067
>I really like the Uzi as a way to make use of Excess Biomass and it could come in handy in close Quarters for someone woh is not wielding a weapon or hell even as a secondary weapon for Shu
We could have some Hundred-Hands wield it. They're explicitly dextrous enough to wield extra weapons. Leave Shu's main hands free to hold a Rook Shield or turn into a Heaven's Drill, while a pair of sub-arms wield the Contender and Uzi.
>>
>>3571094
>Would honestly work better on Rath or Julia, but not outright against it.
I'd vote for Julia, personally. Rath already has a Relic that's going to fuse with her, leave some for the rest o
>>
>>3571108
How did I post that? Must have bumped the mouse by accident. Anyways, I was saying, Julia could use it well too. Plus, with all her skin-related powers, a snake motif wouldn't be that bad for her. Shedding skin and all that.
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>>3571111
Damn i like the Way you think didnt think about that at all
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>>3571081
Shit i completely forgot that...... we should skirt around the forest, no sense in confrontig Isabelle already. While it might be stupid to not confront her as soon as possible(she will get stronger) if we want to safe Gina we need stronger Halos/Phantasmal Conduit Powers to transfer her to us as i am not sure how to contain her if we defeat her..... shit shit shit i do not want to lose her......................... and i can see no way to hold isabelle for any amount of time while leaving her with only minimal guards
>>
>>3571081
(I do wish to provide some context that Shu would be aware of and that I should have made more obvious; B'ni was at the western edge of the forest, so she is leaving it behind as she goes further west.)
>>
>>3570998
>take the Disassociated ones mountain route
>Create a party bus using a Party-technique that creates a mountaineering off-road Vehicle.
and this is the most i can contribute to the discussion because i’m at work.
BHOP, can we create the hivecraft hummer as a party-tech as our way of transportation?
>>
>>3571147
(You absolutely may, or you may elect to take November's tank if you wish.)
>>
>>3571139
Ah, I see. I actually expected she was out of the forest by now, but didn't realize she already was at the start of her journey. Well, still give the team the information. "Hey, Mother's probably got something planned involving B'Ni, B'Ni is somewhere past the forest already, here's hoping that whatever garbage she's going to pull we don't have to deal with today."
>>
(Gentlemen, I am going to have to extend voting for an additional two hours due to a sudden work issue, though this may work well as I know several players are out due to work. I hope your day is going well, and apologies for the delay.)
>>
>>3570998
Amending my Vote from>>3571040
to
>>Party:
Shu (Party Leader we have to take her Duh)
Amara(She is the Skintalker apperrantly that place likes them)
Rath(Damagedealer and some Healing)
Julia(Debuffers are a must for any raid)

I would like November with us but without more knowledge about the Conditions on the Ground she might be rather amiss in that situation if we can not get her Tank in there with her

>>Relics improvement
>>Sui Tormentis at least one Level
>>Forge the Hydras Heart:
>>3571067
>>Forge the Goddamned Uzi
additionaly the Suggestions of WorkAnon
>>3571094

>>Cut a path through the Forest it is the direct approach and we do not want any problems with Golgotha which might choose to lump us in with the Midnight Crew even if we try to explain the situation and we do not need them to be our enemies right now
>>i guess Isabelle moved on already I dare not speak of hope
>> The DOs are not really interested in stuff that does not concern them and they might simply choose to ignore us or they might get pissy that we tried to pass through their territory and accidentaly stumbled upon something they did not want us to see
>>
I think we should put an Escher's Gear warp point at the Armory. It gives us a guaranteed waypoint on the other side of the Forest. It allows us to swap our party out, so we can take one group excellent for getting through the Forest and then switch to one better suited for a dungeon delve. It means that we're not limited by how much we can carry when retrieving materiel from the Armory, since we'll be able to take multiple trips. And it possibly allows us to take over the Armory and fortify it as a second base, if we ever need it. Even if the spokes can't be re-used (did we ever get confirmation on that?), I still think it's a good move.
>>
Oh, also, what is Claire going to be doing while we're on this quest? Is she headed back to her fishing shack, sticking around the Lair, what?
>>
Heading out now

Have a great time everyone
>>
(Back home and writing now, Gentlemen.)
>>
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>>3570998

"Alright...direct route it is, then. I have a team in mind, but just in the interest of full disclosure;” You say, leaning back in your chair as you divert your attention to your team. “I got in contact with Gina last night. She said that B'Ni was on the edge of the forest for some time, just standing there. She thinks that Mother was talking to her.”

Your friends tense, while Quinn leans over to explain the situation to her allies, her knowledge courtesy of her gossip-swap with your pair of chatty artists.

“After a couple hours of that, B'Ni started moving again, deeper into the forest. Mother also made some vague threats when Rath made her Choice, something about how while we were resting she would be acting. Taking that together, we need to consider that Mother may be aiding B'Ni somehow, planning on using her as an agent. Hopefully we won't encounter her on this mission, but be prepared for if she shows up."

“Also, I’m thinking we shouldn’t have any issues with Charon even though our threat level is high after we all took down the Fear.” You segue, cutting your bacon into smaller strips. “We can make a vehicle I have in mind and take the waystation without worry.”

“Woah, back up.” Jackie says, her face a mask of confusion. “Who’s Charon, and what do you mean by ‘threat level’?”

“Is it over nine thousand!?” Keane yells suddenly, causing Quinn to wince as you begin to explain Charon and Karma to the Crew. Jackie’s face shifts from confusion to incredulity as you go over the numbers, finishing with a scowl as you wind to a close.

"Keane?" Jackie says after a moment's pause, rising from the table with her eyes fixed on yours. "You're goddamn right we're gonna be over nine thousand. Let's raid the fuck outta that Armory, see if that boosts our numbers a bit."

"Uh, Jack?"" Quinn starts, glancing between you both nervously. "I don't think she meant it as a challen..."

"If chaos is a game, then you bet your sweet ass our names are 'gonna be at the top of the board, Shu." She says with a wicked grin...one that you return, in kind. After breakfast, you make your way to the Forge room, the newly-remade Tier 3 Core available for use. You share a look with Jackie...

...then you get to work.

>>SUI TORMENTIS: UPGRADED [LVL 3]

>>CURSUS ALAS: UPGRADED [LVL 2]

>>NEW RELICS: HYDRA'S HEART, GUARDIAN'S HEART, FERALI PRAESIDIUM, GUTGRAB DAGGERS...

>>...AND A GODDAMNED UZI;

>>ACQUIRED

You look over the fruits of your efforts, made possible in part by the sizable contributions of biomass by the Midnight Crew on the condition that you take point in your foray into the Hexane Armory, a caveat that you don't fight given their contributions to the Spiraling Fear's defeat. You gather your allies and leave the Crew to their machinations, and the last you hear of them before you exit the Forge is Keane begging Jackie to let them give her an Uzi, too.

(Continued)
>>
>>3571464

They rejoin you later, just in time to marvel at the bio-mechanical vehicle you've crafted just outside the waystation's cave in the Town of Rust. It's a thing of...somewhat grotesque beauty, capable of frightening speeds while boasting a luxurious FuzzBuzz down interior. Amara trots up, taking the back driver's side passenger seat without comment, too invested in the efforts of strapping the Swarmling you've crafted her into the middle seat. You can't help but chuckle as she wrestles with the fluffy behemoth, its sheer floofy mass utterly dwarfing its master's. Dorian settles in behind where you'll be sitting after Julia gives a quick squeeze of his hand while November climbs into the driver's seat, making good on her offer to be the wheelwoman for this excursion.

"We can make you one, if you like." You offer from the passenger's seat, catching Jackie's envious eye as you back up to descend into the waysation.

"Ha, thanks, but we got the boat. We'll shift it a bit and it'll be good to make the trek to the forest." She dismisses, waving for her crew to follow her to the waystation. "We hid it on the eastern shore, so I'll meet you at the town across the river, 'kay?"

You agree, and within less than a half-hour the wind is whipping through your hair as you blaze a trail across the barren, blasted Fleshscape that precedes Carroll's Forest, the eerie twinkling of things akin to stars moving against the darkness of the 'night' sky.The journey's passing in relative silence, snippets of the Midnight Crews' laughter and conversation from ahead of you reaching your ears through the rushing winds, while your ride remains surprisingly quiet. You glance around, and realize that with November and Dorian being the silent types and with Amara in the midst of trying to teach her massive FuzzBuzz pattycake, the burden of conversation falls to you in the absence of Rath or Julia to initiate it.

>>Who do you want to speak with, and about what?

>>Reach out to Uzu to ask about the journal, instead.

>>Just enjoy the drive in silence.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Voting shall remain open for the next two hours, Gentlemen.)

>>3571273
(Claire is a force of nature, so she's just decided to hang out at your place for the time being. The dice only know where she'll go from there.)
>>
>>3571467
>Ask November a bit about her time in the DOs, if shes up for it. Say she can talk about what she wants, and skip over What she does not.

>>3571469
Well at least she seems to be enjoying herself. Seems like a swell lady.
>>
>>3571467
Not having any better idea, I'll support>>3571488
And if she does prefer not to talk about it, then
>Reach out to Uzu to ask about the journal, instead.
>>
>>3571467
>>Who do you want to speak with, and about what?
November. Get to know her a bit better. Nothing in particular, doesn't have to be about her tme with the Disassociated, just small talk. We know she's Rath's aunt, that she's ex-military, and that's about it. Let's learn about the woman behind the cybernetic power armor.
>>
>>3571467
Supporting >>3571554

>>3571464
Damn, I wasn't expecting crafting to by so quickly. Suppose it's too late to propose a Koku Serum? Now that we have gurrenlings, whose main downside is low health, being able to make nearly indestructible constructs is even more valuable. Potentially an even bigger deal is that it can probably also be used on Amara's clones, making them harder to kill than she herself is. Also it's really cheap. Would you folks consider making one next time?
>>
>>3571581
(If your suggestion receives votes, then I'll be happy to make it retroactive if you wish.)
>>
>>3571581
I guess sure. It'll help on the Amara clone network too yeah. My issue is they really work in numbers but they are far from free, especially with good reason to spend the Bio on other Relics.

>>3571582
Speaking of, did we leave an Amara behind as a watch dog?
Also id assume the shield was still for Ace?
>>
>>3571581
>Would you folks consider making one next time?
Sure, I can see some uses for it. Though I'd rather armor up FuzzBuzz than one of Amara's clones. He's the one taking hits for her.

Also, speaking of construct durability, do the HP modifiers from the templates change how effective Platelings are as armor? Which would make Shu's optimum defense come from wearing Spiraling Plate, I believe.
>>
>>3571594
(The shield is for Ace, but the crew has plans to make a replacement one if you wish to keep it. Also, Amara has two clones at the Roost.)

>>3571598
(They certainly do.)
>>
>>3571599
A gift is a gift and she will take the shield.

>Two Amaras left alone to their own devices with The only supervision a 'force of nature' who was slowly getting drunk.
Hrm, thinking about it, i can think of a few kinks in our plan here.
>>
>>3571605
(Ha, Julia and Rath are there as well, so no worries.)
>>
>>3571599
>(They certainly do.)
Nice. And that would apply to making her best shields be Spiraling Rooks, too. And of course there are the drill stingers the armor can eject for enhancing punches or as a reactive defense. Lot of spirals, now. See, Uzu, we don't hate you. We adopted your motif for our armor, we wouldn't do that if we didn't think you were cool.

Oh, just remembers something: Did Forgemistress' Fingers enhance any of the Relics we forged, or did we not roll any upgrades from it?

>>3571605
Nah, Rath and Julia are still back there, remember?
>>
>>3571608
Ah, yes, though you forget Rath is the perfect counter to Julias calm... until she crosses one too many lines at least.
>>
>>3571615
Yeah its just been awhile since we actually had to leave someone behind haha.
>>
>>3571615
(No upgrades as of yet, unfortunately. However, that chance increases as it levels up.)
>>
>>3571620
It's not that long, it's only been one fight.

...oh god, it's only been one fight. All this madness and it's been two days from Shu's perspective.

>>3571630
Yeah, I figured it would. By the end game we're probably going to want to recycle and remake all our Relics, just to get the benefits of a level 15 Forgemistress's Fingers on them.
>>
>>3571632
Dude, its been like three weeks out of character at least, as we had everyone to fight Isabelle aswell.
>>
Okay I'm back from work. What did I miss?
>>
>>3571638
We built relics and made Jackie envious with our kickass hummer and threat level.
>>
>>3571645
what did we forge and who's in our expedition party?
>>
>>3571645
Also, what's the resulting hp/bio cap after crafting a shit-ton of relics?
>>
>>3571652
November, Dorian, and Amara because she is necessary to open the Armory.

We built;
>>SUI TORMENTIS: UPGRADED [LVL 3]

>>CURSUS ALAS: UPGRADED [LVL 2]

>>NEW RELICS: HYDRA'S HEART, GUARDIAN'S HEART, FERALI PRAESIDIUM, GUTGRAB DAGGERS...

>>...AND A GODDAMNED UZI

The Guardians Heart is inside Amaras new FuzzBuzz, and the Ferali is for Ace.
>>
>>3571656
No idea as the Midnight Crew helped out.
Oh, and potentially a Koku Serum too.
>>
>>3571682
>>3571656
(Only Shu ended up being effected, as Julia and Rath donated the lion's share. Your HEALTH and BIO were reduced by 40% and 70%, respectively.)

(Also, you got a Koku Serum out of the deal.)
>>
>>3571690
Yet another way in which the Crucible's mechanics actually encourage teamwork and forming alliances.
>>
(Writing now, Gentlemen.)
>>
>>3571731
Oh, for the Uzi, how many mags of what size can we assume to have made?
>>
>>3571738
(Five of the standard 32-round mags.)
>>
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>>3571740

"November...I'd like to hear a little bit about your time with the Disassociated, if you're willing to share." You say, finally breaking the steady hum of tires on flesh, and of wind in your ears.

"...What do you want to know?" She replies after a pause, keeping her inscrutable visor trained on the road ahead.

"Whatever you're willing to share." You reply with a shrug, watching the road. Nothing you don't."

She's quiet for longer this time before she finally begins to speak, slowly and deliberately.

"I told you I did a couple tours overseas, right? Saw a lot of things I didn't want to see over there. Lot of things I wish I never saw...but my family made it worth it." November intones, her voice low. "My brother, his wife and their kids...they might've been hard ass bible-thumpers like my folks were, but they were good people. My niece, most of all. I had them, no matter how bad it got."

"Then I didn't."

Her words hang between you a moment before she continues.

"Woke up here, and got by 'til the nightmares started getting worse. I started to wonder if this was...I don't know, punishment? Was any of this even real, or was it all just a hell made for me because of what I did in the war? I kept asking until I heard about a place where they could make you better...different, if you wanted. Freer. So I went to the Disassociated Ones, and I asked them to make it all stop."

"What changed your mind?" You ask, and to your surprise she blurts out a static-laced chuckle.

"The one that was in charge of my transition to...all this." She replies, gesturing to her corroded plating. "She asked me, every step of the way, if this is what I wanted. I kept saying yes, until she asked me something different, one day. She said, 'why do you want to be like everyone when you're a someone', with this weird look on her face. I asked her what she meant, and she just told me to forget it. I pressed, and then she got all mad...yelling about how anything I had would be gone once I forgot, saying there's no 'me' but 'me', and that once I was gone...that was it."

"I see." You reply, mulling over her words. "Did you catch her na..."

November suddenly yanks the wheel to one side, sending the hummer into a sharp skid for a few perilous seconds before it slides to a stop next to the Crew's idling, crystalline construct.

"DO IT AGAIN!" Amara screeches, while Dorian's shaking his head irritably.

"What the hell was...!" He begins, but then he sees what you're all looking up at; a wall of trees, dark lacquer trunks rising over fifty meters above you, their tops glittering with pinpricks of light. Trunk and treetops, both blending into the black horizon and evening sky perfectly, the space beyond shrouded in pitch darkness.

An uncanny trick of the eye.

"We're here." She murmurs.

>>PLEASE CHOOSE RELIC LOADOUT

>>Is there anything else you wish to do before entering? (Assign tasks to Amaras, generate constructs, etc.)

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, I shall be pausing here for the evening. Voting shall remain open for the next eleven hours, while posting shall resume in approximately twelve. Thank you for your patience with the updates today, and I shall be around to address any questions, comments, and criticisms you may have. I welcome them all, and I hope you have a restful evening.)
>>
>>3571690
How many charges of the Serum do we have?
>>
>>3571801
(One vial, three doses.)
>>
>>3571789
How has November upgraded from swapping from a Tier One core to Tier Three? Is that enough to boost Mind of Steel? Because we're going to need it.

We should spawn a couple of Amaras. Everyone gets one and keeps her close. We'll watch over Amara Prime. Have them coordinate their various enhanced senses between each other. Neurotic Halo, Skintalker terrain-interrogation, and kitty senses. Between all that it should assist a lot in detecting any non-psychic illusions. Have the Amaras ready to cast GRA FOL THA if needed. Actually, given the exponential reproduction ability of the Joyous Many, we might just have a constant chorus of it active. Each clone spawns two clones then spend the rest of their actions on GRA FOL THA. By the time they've exhausted their BIO there will be more clones ready to take their place.

I'm also thinking we should spawn a Plate-Jackling for every non-clone person. Having a swarmling on everyone will help us keep track of them. We may be able to assist them from range with the Jacklings' connections to their minds, too. Plus, Jacklings boost Shu's concentration, that will be very useful if she has to roll to resist illusions.

Have Keane connect everyone with mucus threads. We don't need the resource-pooling technique yet, the point should be to keep us all in contact so we don't get separated.

What are Shu/Jackie's and Amara/Keane's Dual Techs? Anything that might be useful for suppressing negative effects, seeing through tricks, or bolstering allies?

>>3571794
Thanks for running, BHOP.
>>
>>3571839
(It's my pleasure, and I'll be posting November's Tier 3 Armor shortly.)
>>
(Gentlemen, here is November's updated character sheet.)

https://pastebin.com/C1K4TXvq
>>
>>3571917
>MIND OF STEEL: November has COMPLETE IMMUNITY against Neuromancer and Phantasmal Conduit abilities. ADDITIONALLY, Neuro-Phantasmal abilities used against November have a high chance to recoil on the user, dealing greatly increased critical failure damage and a high chance to score a critical hit. This power is upgraded by installing higher-tiered Forge Cores into November’s suit.

And this is just at Tier 3? Oh my. What happens at Tier 5, do enemy psychics just spontaneously start exploding the moment they get near?
>>
>>3571925
(The armor's creator has a particular hatred of Neuromancers and Phantasmal Conduits.)

(So yes, they do explode at Tier 5)
>>
>>3571067
So does the heart give the wearer 10% bio regen on top of the 1:5 Hp to bio conversion? or is it Hp regen?
>>
>>3571931
Is the anti Neuromancy/Phantasmal Conduit thing selective fire or is it indiscriminate due to the Creator's hatred against Neuromancers and Conduit Classes?
>>
>>3571931
Huh. Based on the things the cyberneticist said to November, I'm guessing it's either one of Francine's enemies within the Disassociated who was disgusted with the idea of West being a hegemonizing swarm, or Francine herself expressing a rebellious urge against the rest of the West collective subverting her will.
>>
>>3571942
It only triggers against powers intended to be used against the armor's wearer.)
>>
>>3571839
Relic Loadout
Shu:
>Contender Derringer
>1 Rook Class given a 1 dose of Koku Serum
Amara
>Cloak
>Whistle
>Guardian's Heart
>Amara's FuzzBuzz gets 1 Dose of Koku Serum

Dorian:
>Sui Tormentis
>Hydra Heart
>Cursus Alas

November:
>Uzi (4 standard Mags, refit 1 Mag filled with Parabellum "Bolter" Rounds)
>Dagger
tfw i just realized November's basically a space Marine with this set-up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2B6de1Geks
Also relevant for November given that she's got a Tier 3 Forge Core.

Sui Tormentis synergize Daughters with having a ton of Hp/Bio Regen. Proper preparation and enough time will enable the wearer of Sui Tormentis to effectively outscale everyone in any stat.
And when we consider the following:
>The Midnight Crew has absolutely Zero HP/Bio Regen.
>November is without her Tank. So she's also running on Zero hp regen. Giving her a relic that runs on Bio is effectively a death sentence on November.
>Amara Prime has a hp heavy regen rate of 80 hp/35 bio regen
>Shu's got a relatively balanced regen rate of 35 hp/60 bio regen
>Dorian has a Monstrous regen rate of 125/100 bio regen
>Dorian's build is a dedicated agile speedster build that relies on hit-runs while regenerating any damage or lost bio within a single round.
>Sui Tormentis lvl 3 gives a 1:4 ratio on Health spent to bonus gained.

Dorian is the perfect candidate for wearing those two relics
Having Dorian spend at least 1 round sacrificing 125%hp worth of stats to boost his agility will give him a instant 500% speed, defense, or Strength bonus.

And given the fact that we are preparing to do a dungeon crawl, I say we take at least 3 rounds to buff ourselves up. Have Dorian spend at least 1 action a round spending 125% hp to give himself 500% bonus Strength, Speed/Agility, and Defense.
Now, consider the fact that Dorian has Spring Heeled Jack, Accumulated Charge, and Canvas form Teleportation...Jesus. Dorian's gonna be such a speed demon.
>>3571961
Where are the New Dual Techniques?
Also, what are the spoils that Amara gathered from exploring and Ransacking Mara's apartment?
>>
>>3572011
This setup works for me. Ideally we won't run into combat until after we get through the forest, but I know that's unrealistic to hope for. Probably some Amalgam or Daughter adapted for stealth and good senses, take advantage of the illusions while avoiding being caught in them. But hey, if we kill them then we can let Amara consume them for even better senses and those stealth powers we want for her, so everything's good.

What are your thoughts on my ideas regarding Amara clones and Plate-Jacklings? Think those are a good way to keep everyone from being separated?
>>
>>3571738
am WorkAnon home now...after one long as hell trip out of town...

>>3571794
thanks for running like always BHOP.

>>3572011
im ok with this overall, though id like to note that id imagine the Guardians Heart cannot be taken out or reconfigured from its settings, so it probably isnt worth saying it is with anyone but Amara and her FuzzBuzz.

you are also forgetting about the Gauntlets, and honestly i feel like Dorian would do better with either the Gauntlets or the Daggers, it feels like Novemeber really isnt meant to be up close to use a melee weapon, only that shes not fucked if she is, meaning the Daggers especially are wasted on her.
>>
>>3571839
also this seems like a decent plan to keep us all together and from getting tricked. supporting.
>>
>>3571917
right, not sure if i am fully happy with the colors, but Novembers sheet is up and running.
>>
>>3571938
>>3571067
If you read the last and second to last paragraph i intended it to increase HEALTH regeneration and only the last Level grants a BIO regen upgrade
It is BIO to HEALTH conversion

>>3571839
Supporting this
>>
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>>3571961

>[Lewis] Carroll's forest
>A place only a skintalker can access alluding to the Wonderland features including a little girl with a hyperactive adventure.
>We're entering the Armory via a rabbit hole in the tree.
>Amara is a Catgirl who knows the way. And we have to rely on the Cheshire Cat.
>Neuromancers lose their minds trying to dive deep into past Crucibles.
This Armory Raid is "Alice in Wonderland": Body Horror Edition. And we're entering a rabbit hole.
Bhop, You motherfucker.
>>
>>3572156
The Armory isn't in Carroll's Forest, it's on the other side. But yes, Alice In Wonderland is definitely the inspiration for this place's name. Which makes it fun that we're being guided by a Cheshire catgirl, yes. It just means that we chose this, instead of it being a bamboozle on BHOP's part.
>>
>>3572011
>>3571839
(I'll address the dual techs shortly, thank you for the reminder.)
>>
(Gentlemen, here are the Dual Techs I mentioned earlier in the thread. I had to recreate the wording from memory as my draft was somehow lost, so let me know if you have any questions about how they work.)

-SHU & JACKIE-

>>KING’S ENVOY: A potent combination of your empathic channel and Jack’s ability-boosting Humoral Paladin skills, this Dual Tech allows you to funnel nearly all of Jackie’s boosts into the effects of a single skill tree or passive, eschewing a variety of boosts in exchange for tremendously increasing said ability’s powers. While the effects of this skill are quite variable, there is no question that the affected skill’s powers will reach heights most Daughters only dream of. (Cost: -50% BIO/turn from each participant)

-AMARA & KEANE-

>>LEGION’S PLAYDATE: A result of Amara and Keane’s late-night brainstorming, Keane may now immediately shift HEALTH AND BIO around from Amara’s nearby clones to one another and even Amara Prime, herself. This will, in effect, allow Amara to take hits from attacks that would otherwise bring her to death’s door, instantly restoring her HEALTH when she would go down. (Cost: -60% BIO from Keane, 1 ACT ongoing to keep effect active.)

-RATH & NOVEMBER-

>>FAMILIAL ARMAMENT: A price paid in blood…for the sake of her family, she’ll pay it gladly. The HEALTH cost for November’s abilities may now be paid by Rath, as long as both of them are in short range. Additionally, November may also sacrifice her HEALTH to empower any ability Rath uses that would cost her own life force to use. (Cost: Variable HEALTH from Rath/November, 1 ACT from donator)

-JULIA & DORIAN-

>>STORMFRONT’S WALTZ (Passive): A burgeoning spark foretells a gathering storm. Dorian may now bring Julia with him when he moves using Canvass Form, and his Accumulated Charge generates two STACKS per movement zone crossed as long as he is traveling with his sworn Lady. (Cost: None, always active.)
>>
>>3572011
(Amara found Mara's candy stash. There were no survivors. Aside from that, the Dragon's Roost was quite bare, as the most lived-in space was the hidden room that you found.)
>>
>>3572539
rip candy
>>
>>3572539
Thank the old world for sugar crashes then otherwise none would get any sleep.
>>
>>3572536
These are really nice I can see a lot of potential for Rath and November with this... Could make Rath much more Viable especially in her Indignant Indignation Form with Novembers massive HP Pool she can deal a lot more damage now by using her Construct Arms that draw from their combined Health

STORMFRONT'S WALTZ: Awww that is pretty sweet


>>3572536
A Question BHOP: Should i fix the Wording on HYDRA'S HEART as i noticed i made some mistakes in my sentence structure and forgot to mention that all Regen except the last level is HEALTH regen? Or will you do it while writing it down with the other Relics?
>>
>>3572558
(I'll make the correction, thank you though!)
>>
>>3572536
>>3572544
>reads Amara and Keane's dual tech
Okay...
So let me get this straight:
>It takes 30 hp & 20 bio to produce a Amara clone that has 150 hp and 100 bio.
>Amara has 80 hp regen, 35 bio regen.
>Optimal efficiency would be to produce 1 clone per round from Amara Prime. The clones would make the same thing but now be at 120hp/130bio after producing a 150hp/100bio clone of themselves under optimal conditions.
>It takes Keane 60 bio to initiate the dual tech, and 1 act per round to keep it active after paying the initial cost to activate it
>Amara has no clone limit, only a range limit of 200 yards from Clone's origin.
>The result is that all of Amara's clones have their health and bio collectively pooled together as Keane's constantly shifting them around.
Each clone produced gives 150 hp and 100 bio buffer for Keane to play with and divert with a party-wide mucus ball-network dual tech in conjunction with Keane and Ace's Dual Tech.
So basically, each of Amara's clones are walking health and bio potions that restore 150 hp/100 bio a clone. And they can self-replicate. That's an exponential growth curve on the Cost:return policy.
That's fucking broken.
But utterly cruel and monstrous if we were to exploit Amara clone's to death.
>>
>>3572570
Actually the clones only cost 25/15 due to halo and have unlimited range.
>>
>>3572536
>-RATH & NOVEMBER-
Well, that's pretty powerful given that Rath can regenerate November's Health just by standing next to her when she's in Ignition mode. Nice.

>-JULIA & DORIAN-
Does Julia have to travel the full distance Dorian moves, or can he drop her off along the way and continue his movement?
>>
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>>3571789

You slide the Contender out of its holster with one hand as the black chitin surrounding your Hive unfurls, a massive swarmling clawing its way free of your back. A Rook, torso-wide and imposing hovers on silent wings before you, and when the Koku Serum’s needle finds a space between its impenetrable plating you jab it in, depressing the plunger and sending the mixture coursing through your construct’s biomass. Stepping back, you watch as its shell goes grey, then dark red and finally a glossy black as the serum’s effects take hold, and a glance to your left sees the same effects overtake Amara’s Guardian FuzzBuzz right before she disappears under Shalaev’s Shawl.

You find November loading her Uzi next to Ace, her expertise evident as you watch her bone-shearing talons effortlessly load the magazine and turn the weapon over in her hands with practiced ease. A third armored form covered with the pair, one you don’t recognize until it occurs to you that it’s Dorian, his scarlet paint having unified the color schemes of the Sui Tormentis, the Cursus Alas, an Gutgrab Daggers into a coherent and strikingly red form.

Meanwhile, Keane begins work on tethering everyone together before your joint venture into the darkened wood, while Quinn finishes off a cup of coffee she brought along to help shake the party’s aftereffects.

“Ready to go, Sam?”

Your head jerks around to see Jackie striding up to you, wearing the tight black pants and dark turtleneck you first met her in.

“What did you just call me?’ You breathe.

“Uh…I asked if you were ready to head in there, Shu.” Jack replies, her eyebrow arched as you feel a tug on your hand. Looking down, you see the air beside you shimmer before Amara throws back the hood of the shawl and Jack chuckles at the girl’s head suddenly appearing in mid-air.

“I gotcha!” Amara declares, squeezing your hand with a big smile on her face. “I’ll keep my ears and nose out so nothing bad happens, ‘kay?”

You give her a nod before you turn to address everyone present.

“Alright everyone, we’re headed in. Stay together, stay on guard…”

You inhale, glancing at the wall of trees that looms over your party.

“…and stay focused.”

(Continued)
>>
>>3572643

A soft, barely-audible vibration emanates from every trunk you pass as you collectively march into the choking depths of Carroll’s Forest. Aside from the ever-present thrum behind the jet-black bark that surrounds you, there are no other sounds save for the steady tread of eight pairs of feet. It’s not until after about an hour of walking that the natural sounds of nature begin to filter into your ear, punctuated by the odd pulse of static, almost like waves breaking on a rocky shore. It’s rather pleasant, and a welcome distraction from the impenetrable shade of the surrounding woods and the creeping shadows that reach out from the murky gloom.

“Amara, can you sense anything now that we’re further in?” You ask, and you can feel the girl jolt up with pride at your question.

“Yep, lots’a things!” She declares, and you find yourself wishing that you’d asked a little earlier if you knew she was going to stay quiet on the subject.

“Over that way, there’s a big mean thing that’s waiting to be fed, and he’s super hungry!” She explains, pointing straight north. She whirls around, pointing south as she continues. “And over there’s a cute little house! Nobody’s home, though.”

“What about further west or east, anything bringing up our rear?” November intones, and Amara’s happy to explain.

“Up ahead is a buncha people having a party!” She says, clearly having saved what she thinks is the best for last. “And…uh, behind us are some things that’re…kind of hard to explain? But kinda like these flat, flappy things, lot of them! They’re not too fast and they don’t seem to be mean…or much of anything, really.”

“What about the birds, and the static?” You ask, and Amara’s ears twitch in curiosity. “Where is that coming from?”

“…Um…I don’t hear anything like that, Miss Shu.” She says, your heart beating a little faster. “I can listen harder though, then I’m sure I could hea…”

“You’re hearing it, too?”

You glance towards Dorian, standing still to your left and fixing you with his helm’s visor fixed on you.

The Midnight Crew’s stopped a little ahead of you, staring back as you and your allies stand in the middle of the small clearing and you debate what to do with the information Amara’s gleaned.

>>Creep up on the beast to the north.

>>Explore the house to the south.

>>Investigate the party to the west.

>>Try tapping into one of the nearby trees via Neuromancy.

>>Tune in to the sounds of the birds and static that you and Dorian hear.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTOL
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open for the next two hours.)

>>3572642
(She does not have to travel the full distance, no.)
>>
>>3572646
>Tune into the birds and static

Ok we aren't insane
>>
>>3572646
>>Tune in to the sounds of the birds and static that you and Dorian hear.
Then, if its nothing or nothing we can deal with
>>Investigate the party to the west.
Probably not a party but we shall see. Approach with caution and stealth however.
>>
>>3572646
>>“What about the birds, and the static?”
>>“…Um…I don’t hear anything like that, Miss Shu.”
>>“You’re hearing it, too?”


This is not good...... Since when does Amar call us Miss........ Do i need to be alarmed?!?!?!
>>
>>3572660
>>3572662
Anons, I'm seeing lots of Wonderland References.
>Party
That's the Mad Hatter's Tea Party with March Hare
>Beast to the North
Jabberwocky?
>House:
Eat me and Drink me houses? I can't remember.
>Flock of birds
I can't really remember. but I think there was a flock of birds in Alice and Wonderland.
If we're going to navigate Lewis Carroll's forest and get to the armory, we'll need to navigate the forest well.
>>
>>3572646
>Tune in to the sounds of the birds and static that you and Dorian hear.
>Investigate in all directions with three pairs of subversive swarmling and soundling.
>>
>>3572675
Well, yes, and are you saying you DONT want to meet fleshscape mad hatter?

>>3572677
Though thinking about it this is probably the better move.
>>
>>3572675
And the flappy things are probably playing card people. Which in this context would be some grotesque Amalgam made of living sheets of skin.
>>
>>3572685
>>3572686

>>3572662
>This is not good...... Since when does Amar call us Miss........ Do i need to be alarmed?!?!?!
Amara calls us Miss Shu sometimes, but I'm not sure when she adopted it.

>“Ready to go, Sam?”
>“What did you just call me?’ You breathe.
>“Uh…I asked if you were ready to head in there, Shu.” Jack replies, her eyebrow arched as you feel a tug on your hand. Looking down, you see the air beside you shimmer before Amara throws back the hood of the shawl and Jack chuckles at the girl’s head suddenly appearing in mid-air.
Here's the real red-flag.

Anons, I think the forest plays merry hell on Neuromancers with visual and auditory hallucinations.
>>
>>3572675
If it is the Jabberwocky it could be worth it to destroy him, but we probably need a lot of cutting power to kill him, as he is probably the thing that scared our good doctor West

Meeting the Mad Hatter might be interesting though they probably are insane Neuromancers as we have started noticing Halucinations before we even entered the Forest like >>3572692
pointed out

So staying inside the Forest might be very very bad for us and Dorian. imo we should not jack into anything to try and get a bigger picture just rely on Amara and especially November to bring us through this thing without any big problems


>>3572692
>>Amara calls us Miss Shu sometimes, but I'm not sure when she adopted it.
That makes me feel a bit better
>>
>>3572692
>Anons, I think the forest plays merry hell on Neuromancers with visual and auditory hallucinations.
Yeah, it's not high level but Dorian does have Neuromancy on his sheet. That's probably why he's hearing the birds, too. On the other hand, there's that thing about how Carroll's Forest can reveal information about past Crucibles, so maybe it's not an intentional mind-screw. Maybe it's just an attempted data transfer and it's messing with our heads because the process is incomplete.
>>
>>3572704
>>3572701
Should we switch to Neuro-Isolation mode? Because if the Forest is playing Merry hell with Neuromancers, I think it'll be wise for us to shut it out.
>>
>>3572708
If we do, we need to get those Plate-Jacklings on everyone. That way we'll still be able to communicate by way of the Jacklings' connection, even without our empathic field being active.
>>
>>3572692
I could've sworn we were told Neuromancers had some advantage in the forest, but maybe i just misinterpreted some info.
>>
>>3572712
(Oh, they do. You should be glad everyone is linked together or already has Neuromancy.)
>>
>>3572708
We can try it definetly but i am not sure it will help us to much even if we isolate ourselves. We muiight also have to turn of our Empathic Field(could it be classified as somethign akin to neuromancy?)

It is definetly worth a shot you are right.

>>3572710
Can we still use that connection, over the Plate-Jacklings, even if we isolate ourselves?
Maybe you could argue that we can use it because we are jacked in which could be counted to be outside of the limitations of the Halo....... It may make us vulnerable to the Hallucinations again as we do not know how they are transmitted. If everyone picks them up and only neuromancers are affected we just multiplied the strength of the Halucinations on ourselves
>>
>>3572714
>Maybe you could argue that we can use it because we are jacked in which could be counted to be outside of the limitations of the Halo....... It may make us vulnerable to the Hallucinations again as we do not know how they are transmitted. If everyone picks them up and only neuromancers are affected we just multiplied the strength of the Halucinations on ourselves
The mental isolation is actually a side-effect of the actual purpose of that mode, which is to prevent any sort of feedback when jacking in to other Daughters. I'd think that would protect us from the visions getting through them to us. Also, Jacklings give a stacking boost to Shu's concentration so long as they're active, which would also help resist the effects.
>>
>>3572719
I wonder if they also boosts Dorian's concentration since it comes from the exact same ability, now held by multiple people.
>>
>>3572708
>>3572710
Er, folks?
>>3572713
We might want to rethink this. With both us hearing shit AND what BHOP just said the birds might be something else. Not saying we jump down the rabbit hole but maybe check it out before we jump to conclusions.
>>
>>3572723
Good thinking the Birds might be considered harmless by Amara but could be extremely vicious and dangerous

Mental Isolation might be useful for Dorian as long as Shu stays open to take the worst effects. Boosting our Concentration might be veryy useful.

We are gonna have to rely on our friends to bring us through this as we will not be able to trust our senses and might have to contend with Sam.....
This is the kind of situation i can see her coming out to play and mess stuff up
>>
>>3572723
>We might want to rethink this. With both us hearing shit AND what BHOP just said the birds might be something else. Not saying we jump down the rabbit hole but maybe check it out before we jump to conclusions.
I think we're hearing the birds because of the advantage Neuromancers get, yes, but that doesn't mean we should tune into them. We've been told that Carroll's Forest has some sort of archival properties, Neuromancers can tap into the trees to get information about past Crucibles. I think that's what's going on, we're hearing the Crucible's memory of an actual forest. I don't know what would happen if we tried to tap deeper into that, though. Would we alert the Forest to our presence? Get lost in the simulation-memory? Just have a pleasant little vision of nature? I don't know.

>>3572726
>Good thinking the Birds might be considered harmless by Amara but could be extremely vicious and dangerous
Amara can't hear the birds. The flappy things that she thinks are harmless are something else. Given that this is Lewis Carroll land, I'm guessing they're giant living playing cards made of skin.
>>
>>3572701
>If it is the Jabberwocky it could be worth it to destroy him, but we probably need a lot of cutting power to kill him, as he is probably the thing that scared our good doctor West
In what context and where did you get that source?
>>
>>3572734
Sorry i meant those flappy creatures when i wrote Birds
I can imagine that these Creatures are something that descends on prey in swarms and chokes/smothers them to death


>>3572758
I think it was a while back when we saw Isabelle against West
maybe i misremeberred something from that conversation, but West did not appear to want to go deeper into the forest

>>3572646
>>Have Dorian isolate himself while Shu provides everyone with Plate-Jacklings
>>Let Amara keep a tap on the Jabberwocky and the Crads while we all creep closer to the "party" to try and find out what is going on
>> the Party might be a Honey Trap to lure in victims until the Monster strikes stay on Guard in case the beast moves
>>
>>3572760
I don't think the isolation modes a good idea, as it was said our Neuromantic connections were very much a good thing.
>>
>>3572767
Well i want to let Shu be neroumantic overwatch while we see if the Birds stop if we isolate ourselves by seeing if Dorian stops having the same hallucinations (If it does not stop for him we can just reactivate it because then it makes no difference)

jacking everyone with a Jackling might give them the hallucinations to...... that would be interesting to know but probably not the best to test it out right now
>>
>>3572646
>Tune in to the sounds of the birds and Static.
>Have Jack boost our signal strength when tuning into the Static.
>Also ask anyone if they've read Alice in Wonderland.
>"There's a Beast to the North...probably The Jabberwocky."
>"There's a party up ahead but that's definitely the Mad Hatter's Tea Party."
>"And Amara's our Cheshire Cat."
>"Amara, can you ask the ground where the Red Queen's castle is at?"

Armory...Armory... You can't hide an Armory in the forest. You'd have to keep the Armory under lock, key, and guard. And if this is wonderland... then there would be the Red Queen and the King, along with a castle and the 52-deck army of Card Sharp Guards.
>>
>>3572646
>>Investigate the party to the west.
They're in our path. It's either deal with them or divert around and deal with the giant monster or the house that is definitely going to try to eat us. Let's just be cautious, stealthy, and ready to run if things go bad. As we get closer, Amara should be able to get a better sense of what's going on there.

>>3572775
>Armory...Armory... You can't hide an Armory in the forest.
Right, which is why it's not in the Forest. It's on the other side. We're just taking a shortcut through the forest, because we decided mind-screws were better than dealing with any bad blood the Crew left behind at Golgotha. I'm starting to regret that line of thinking.
>>
>>3572775
Well yeah, because we're going through the forest to get to the Armory on the other side.
>>
>>3572773
It could be our connection to them already somewhat protecting them from any effects. With the Halos, Empathic channel, and mucus strings, it could be some odd reroute to where Neuromancers can absorb the effects for their team, but i dunno, i can guess though that cutting our connection to the forest would stop us absorbing the effects though if that is whats happening, and if this is actually bad we don't need the whole team affected.
>>
>>3572788
Maybe i expressed myself poorly. i do not want Shu to isolate herself i want to see what happens if Dorian Isolates himself and if that makes any difference

With the Jacklings we also can keep the connection up much more efficently if we get broken up during a battle or attacked by the big beast

So i agree with you to not isolate ourselves completely

I do not want them to be without Neuromancer Support that would be stupid especially if we consider what BHOP said
>>
>>3572788
Yeah, we just don't know enough to say whether we should activate it right now. I think if things start getting really spooky we should use it, because then it will be an emergency that justifies it, but otherwise we should hold off. Still not sold on the "tune into the birds and static" plan, though.
>>
(Gentlemen, from what I'm seeing it looks like tuning in to the sounds while sneaking towards the party seems to be the prevailing vote. If this is correct, do you want Dorian to mentally isolate himself via his Halo?)
>>
>>3572800
No. Not now.
>>
>>3572800
If we break it down into steps, yes. I don't want to have Dorian isolate himself, tune into the sounds, and sneak towards the party all at the same time. But if we have Dorian isolate himself to check if that shuts down the effect, then have Shu tune into the sounds, then once we're done with that sneak towards the party, yes. That works for me. I just don't want to be managing multiple possibly-weird neurological effects while trying to sneak up on what may be a group of Alice In Wonderland-themed maenads.
>>
>>3572800
If i can change nothing about tuning into the sound(as i do not want it) ...i at least want him to isolate himself, if he feels something is off though he should immediatly stop isolating himself and get back into the System
>>
Ammending >>3572805
to include>>3572804
you brought it to a good point Anon
>>
>>3572800
Ill say no, but Dorian shouldn't try and connect to the sound himself.
>>
(Writing now, Gentlemen.)
>>
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>>3572817

"Dorian, set your Halo to block transmissions. If that stops the sounds, let me know." You say, turning from him to the others. "Everyone, I'm going to tune into the sounds I've been hearing if Dorian's Halo stops what he and I are picking up, and after that I want to approach that party...discreetly, if we can."

You turn back to Dorian, his head low as he listens intently before looking to you.

"Nothing. I can't hear it anymore, Miss Shu." He declares. "No I'll effects from shutting it out, it seems."

Alright, then. Your turn.

You give your team a sharp nod before you close your eyes, and listen. The static intensifies though not painfully, and what you took to be the chirping of birds take on a curious tone, resembling more the rhythmic chirps of some form of echolocation. You sense movement around you, and your eyes fly open to reveal that your allies are gone, absent from the sprawling field you stand in, a night sky stretching across the open horizons, filled with unfamiliar constellations. The dark foliage underfoot is springy against your heels, allowing the odd flock of creatures in the distance to bound across the field with ease, their three pairs of legs carrying them meters at a time with each bounding lea...

...a pop, and a predator is upon them, tearing out of space itself and bringing ravenous fangs and angular claws to bear in ravaging one of the flock. They panic, but another five hounds tear out of the surrounding air and bring the rest of the creatures down with perfect unity.

The Tindalos in their element.

You look to the skies above at the chirps of the vast, undulating creatures that soar in the skies overhead, and past them, you see it; a red, pulsing thing, a wound in existence. As it grows closer the hounds look up as one, baying their strange cry at the heavens, at the thing that is coming to bring their existence to an end.

They are but a memory of a world long gone.

You blink, and you're back in the forest, surrounded by your allies as you take a deep breath, the air silent save for one steady, constant sound.

The trees around you hum with history...at the same frequency that your Neurotic Halo's gem pulses with, right above your heart.

"Seems like the woods are a little more insistent about their lore than I expected." You say, giving your team a quiet gesture to continue forwards, and away from the creatures that are slowly closing the unseen gap behind you.

Within a few minutes, Amara leads you to the edge of a medium-sized clearing, with the ruins of an old home barely illuminated through the gaps in the treetops above. You turn to your little ward in time to see the smile run away from her face, her eyes darting back and forth as she whispers to the Fleshscape.

"It's...not a party, not really." She says, disappointed as she struggles to understand what she's being told. "It's like a...a tea party? There are a lot of girls there, but...not, if that makes sense?"

(Continued)
>>
>>3572851

You enhance your vision, peering into the ruins and catching movement in the dimly-lit dining room you can see from your hiding place. Over a half-dozen young girls stumble to and fro around the length of a dining-room table, another six or seven seated along its length, some as young as Amara with the oldest perhaps around Keane’s age. Their dull-eyed attentions are directed towards a woman seated at the head of the table, a tall, lanky figure around Mara’s age, maybe older. Her stringy brown hair falls haphazardly about her wan face, a tall hat perched precariously atop her head. She titters and laughs inaudibly, making animated conversation among all present, though she receives no reply. It’s then that you notice each of the children is each wearing hats of their own, each unique headwear mismatched and worn with time.

“Looks like an older woman, and a bunch of younger Daughters.” You transmit across the channel, keeping a close eye on the proceedings. “Nothing of note that I can…”

You stop dead in your tracks as you watch a pair of ambling Daughters bump into each other, their hats sliding off their heads and revealing the hollowed-out skulls they obscured.

The older woman’s screaming now, howling at the animated corpses to pick up what they’ve dropped. They clumsily reach down, their limbs getting tangled until they can manage to re-affix the articles. Suddenly, the woman is serene once more, gesturing to the oldest girl present that wears a faded top hat. She paces forwards, a thin trickle of drool dribbling down her lips, her dull eyes staring forwards thoughtlessly as she obeys. The Daughter leans over and doffs her top hat, the woman gleefully slicing a thin sliver of grey matter from her offered head, adding it to her plate and neatly slicing it into quarters before bringing it to...

You turn away, your veins pumping with painful cold as you draw a hard, shuddering breath.

“See, I told you it was weird!” Amara says, her face scrunched in confusion as you reach an arm around her, drawing her close. “What’s she doing with…um, what’s wrong?”

Amara…she doesn’t understand.

Good.

You’re so very glad she doesn’t.

>>Engage the hatter with impunity.

>>There’s nothing worth saving from this place. Sneak past, and continue to the armory.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
>>3572876
>Engage the hatter

Levels and prevention of future victims
>>
>>3572851
>The trees around you hum with history...at the same frequency that your Neurotic Halo's gem pulses with, right above your heart.
Huh. Is the forest itself a Hexane artifact, or did the Hexane just reverse-engineer the Halo's information-sharing protocols from Crucible structures like this?

>"It's like a...a tea party? There are a lot of girls there, but...not, if that makes sense?"
Oh, god damn it! We must be mad, or we wouldn't have come here.

>>3572876
Reminds me of how we met Rath. You think a Subversive Baneling's enough to take down this one, or are we going to need something heavier?
>>
>>3572880
Should we try for an assassination like with the Dollhouse daughter that captured Rath when we met her?

The brain eating is making me think of a Necromancer-Gluttonous. Does Ashen Fortitude work on an individual plateling sent out on it's own rather than used for armor? To counter the neuromancy.

Though a silent, cloaked Gurrenling is probably better. Unless... we stealth in a Knighted-Gurrenling that's covered in Subversive Platelings.
>>
>>3572884
>>3572880
>>3572881
The thing that I'm having issue with is the fact that's she made Carroll's Forest her HOME. Assassination won't be easy. And we might draw the attention of the jabberwock.
Speaking of... I have to leave for work now. You people best not fuck things up. Fortunately I'll be free all day tomorrow.
>>
>>3572876
And I'm not sure if we should sneak or engage. We didn't let the others know about what's ahead.
>>
>>3572887
It might not be easy, but it's the right thing to do. Plus the stronger she is the more levels we will get.
>>
>>3572876
>>Engage the hatter with impunity.
But lets try and ambush her of course.
>>
>>3572876
>>3572884
>>3572881
>>3572887

We can not leave the Hatter..... We just cant, this would violate our ethics we have to set these Girls free form thii torment, even if they can no longer feel it their souls must be set free

But we can not bumble into this without a plan we need more intelligence on her abilities. Is she like the daughter we saved Rath from on our first meeting? Will she have Filament that can stun us? Or is it a Neuromantic power?

Can she transfer herself to all these bodies? IF yes we have to destroy them all damn how i would like wrath right now

If we hit her we need to make sure there are no other daughters that are with her(unlikely but still better safe than sorry)

Communicate teh Battle Plan with our Team and the Crew
Battle Plan
>> Load the Contender with two Parrabelums and get a cloaked gurrenling ready
>>Dorina powers himself up over three rounds with SUI Tormentis for his entire HP regen 500% Strength and 500%Speed/Reaction and 500 % Defense
afterwards

SHU
>>We should hit her with a subversive Baneling for a start
>>and then blow her brains out with a Parabellum
>>Do not show ourselves

NOVEMBER
>>Get out there and get her attention you are immune to Neuromancy so fuck her shit up if she tries something
>>November spools up her Minigun and starts shredding the bitch while blowing other bodies away with her shotgun

Midnight Crew
>>loop November into the Network to provide her with health if needed

>>stay on Guard in Case we piss of the Jabberwock i do not think we have the Vorpal Blade with us to kill it easily just jet

Dorian
>>stay Isolated and go in there
>>Activate your anti Construct field these bodies are controlled so they (or watever controls them) might be considered a construct

Amara
>> FOL RHO CUNT the bitch make sure she drops whatever she is doing
>>Stay out of sight of the Enemy afterwards

Work in Progress...
ANY more Ideas Anyone?
>>
>>3572887
True, she's probably got some good senses in order to be able to survive this place. But she is distracted, we might be able to work that to our advantage for a stealth assault. Or just have November blow the place up from range. She's got a cluster bomb launcher, I think that can level the house.
>>
>>3572899
>>>stay on Guard in Case we piss of the Jabberwock i do not think we have the Vorpal Blade with us to kill it easily just jet
We don't know it's a Jabberwock. It could be a Jub-Jub bird, or the frumious Bandersnatch. Lots of weird monsters live in the tulgey wood.
>>
(Gentlemen, works picking up so voting shall be open for the next two hours.)
>>
>>3572876
>>3572896
right, guys, lets do this;

AMARA, ACE and DORIAN;
>send in a clone, try and act like you are interested in the party and super naive.
>Get as close as you can to the hatter.
>Have Ace teleport swap with the Amara clone once it is as close as it looks like it can get, and teleport swinging hard to cleave the bastard in two.
>Have Dorian teleport behind the hatter but out of friendly fire range of Aces swing, ready to dig in and hold the hatter in place with the daggers and then choo into him with scythes in critic form, if the hatter tries to flee or can flee in time.
>Dorian should sink Health into the Sui for speed boosts as necessary.

NOVEMBER, SHU, JACKIE, and QUINN;
>after the initial fight starts, rush in and try and mow down the Daughters under the hatters control quickly. if you absolutely can, see if any can be saved, but do not risk life and limb for the off chance one might not be brainless.

KEANE;
>use your mucuslings to clog and block any exists the hatter can take.
>>
>>3572919
it seems that the mad hatter is very peculiar when it comes to her set pieces. if we throw her groove off by distracting her with having her try have another temper tantrum at her puppets that should give us a window of opportunity to take the initiative without bhop throwing the dice.
>>
>>3572919
hmmmm. Your plan has merit and is probably a lot more subtle than my own and less likely to attract that much attention..... I just want to turn that house into a slaughter fest but i will make some suggestions

>>Right before teleporting FOL RHO CUNT her
that should drop her concentration on ongoing effects, so if any daughters are not completely braindead but under her command they should struggle to not fall over(easy way to see any we can most likely safe)

Otherwise i would like for dorian to power up
>>Sui Tormentis Up the Speed at first and if you have time up your strength
>>
>>3572924
Amara can make biomass talk out loud so that the rest of us can hear it, she just usually has it muted for stealth purposes. What if she gets the ground around the table to yell out "CHANGE PLACES!"?
>>
>>3572930
I can get behind Amara yelling that sure.

Dorian can throw on some strength too, so her can better hold on and gouge the bastard out.

I was thinking just spamming regular rec-swarmlings for now to help keep his minions at bay, bit im open to other suggestions too.
>>
>>3572952
Yeah basic swarmlings might be our best best bet to deal with teh minions if she can even direct hem while under heavy assault. It might be a concentration power but still putting them down with mass might be useful or will at least distract them so we can kill her.

I am still worried thoug that she can maybe swap her brain with her puppets as long as they wear the hats...
>>
>>3572952
What if we had some more Amara clones maintain a perimeter fence of Queen Crimson? If we use the freshest generation of the exponential doubling trick, then they'll be able to maintain the fence for seven rounds. I don't think we've had a fight go longer than that so far, so we shouldn't have any problems.
>>
>>3572956
Then we simply leave no puppets or hats behind. An uzi, a shotgun, a machinegun, plus a swarm of Constructs can help do that id recon.

>>3572963
Yeah, i like the sound of that, help Keane lock down the perimeter.
>>
>>3572876
Amending my Vote from >>3572899
to >>3572919
with the Additions of having the Amara clone used for the distraction top disrupt her concentration with a
>>FOL RHO CUNT

and having Dorian power up before the battle
>>First round 125% Health for 500 % Speed
>>Second round 125% Health for 500% Strength
>>
>>3572876
>>3572919
Edited Plan;
AMARA, ACE and DORIAN;
>send in a clone, try and act like you are interested in the party and super naive.
>Get as close as you can to the hatter.
>Have Ace teleport swap with the Amara clone once it is as close as it looks like it can get, and teleport swinging hard to cleave the bastard in two.
>Have Amara shout FOL RHO CUNT as she teleports away.
>Have Dorian teleport behind the hatter but out of friendly fire range of Aces swing, ready to dig in and hold the hatter in place with the daggers and then choo into him with scythes in critic form, if the hatter tries to flee or can flee in time.
>Dorian should sink Health into the Sui for speed boosts as necessary.
>Dorian should sink health into strength as necessary once her gets ahold if the hatter.

NOVEMBER, SHU, JACKIE, and QUINN;
>after the initial fight starts, rush in and try and mow down the Daughters under the hatters control quickly. if you absolutely can, see if any can be saved, but do not risk life and limb for the off chance one might not be brainless.
>have the flying constructs aim to disrupt the hats, though only if that proves to be effective.

KEANE and AMARA;
>use your mucuslings to clog and block any exists the hatter can take.
>Have a clone at each entranceway using Queen to help block said escape routes.
>>
>>3572876
Okay, let's try to actually chart this out.

PREPARATORY PHASE

>>Amara
>Spawn two of the Joyous Many. Each spawns two of their own, then the next generation each spawns two more.
>Results: Six Many with 120% Health and 60% Bio (heretofore known as the Chorus), eight Many with 150% Health and 100% Bio (the Fence)

>>Dorian
>Spend two rounds putting 100% Health into Strength, 100% Health into Speed, and 50% Health into Defense
>Results: +400% Strength, +400% Speed, +200% Defense

>>Shu
>Spawn four Knighted Nomlings.
>Spend the remaining time spying on the Hatter, see if we can spot any weaknesses

>>Keane
>Spawn enough mucuouslings to clog up the entrances

ACTION PHASE

>>Amara
>Send in one Chorus, acting like an excited little girl eager to join the party.
>Once it gets close, cast FOL RHO CUNT

>>Ace
>Tele-swap with Amara. Lay into melee with the Hatter

>>Dorian
>Tele-dash in. Pin the Hatter with the daggers, then lay into her with scythes.
>Fire lightning bolt if Hatter seems about to flee.

>>Amara
>Direct Chorus to deliver a continuous round of debuffs
>Move Fence in to deploy Queen Crimson and keep anyone from escaping.

>>Shu
>Send in Nomlings to harass puppets and Hatter
>Deploy Ravenous Maw and enter into melee

>>Jackie, Quinn
>Fight as they will. They know better than us how to use their abilities to shut down the enemy.

>>Keane
>Jam up the entrances with muscouslings

>>November
>Provide covering fire with Porcupine.
>>
>>3573043
i still would prefer Dorian to this round spend his health as he needs it, over a rigid, unadaptable schedule. while it does bear some risk, him making the decision as he needs to to make sure this goes as planned is much more important i feel.

otherwise dont forget November has the Uzi...im not sure why, but id think the standard ammunition is pretty cheap to produce so making use of it is far from a bad idea. Gat hand and Uzi working together to lay down the lead.
>>
(Writing now, Gentlemen.)
>>
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>>3572876

Reluctantly, you turn to your other allies and the Midnight Crew, reaching out through the empathic field to show them what you’ve witnessed. Dorian’s face goes white with shock, then red with rage as November’s clenched fist creaks, and Quinn and Keane both go green in sheer disgust. Jackie’s jaw pops as she clenches her teeth, and when you lock eyes with her you know, instinctually, you’re of the same mind.

You know what you have to do.

A minute later, Amara trots up to table, finding her footing over the pile of rubble that used to be the eastern dining room wall. She waves as the figure within, and you feel your stomach roil when a wide grin splits the wretch’s face. She rises, ambling over to the young girl who stares up sweetly, whispering something that the Hatter can’t quite make out. She kneels, and you see her mouth ‘what’?

“FOL RHO CUNT!” Amara screams in the Hatter’s face, shattering what’s left of the windows and staggering her victim. You and your allies dash forwards as one at Amara’s cue, and when the wretch rounds on your young ally she’s faced with a furious armiger, battle-axe mid-cleave and intent on dividing the Hatter cleanly in twain.

She’s fast, too fast by half as she leaps back, her gangly limbs hiding uncanny strength and wiry speed as she avoids the deadly blow and slips past her stumbling children, her hold on them completely disrupted. You see her jaw begin to split down the middle, yawning wide as she begins to scream…one that’s cut short as a sharp crack and guttural boom announce Dorian's entrance, his scarlet armor slamming into the Hatter's body and pinning her against the wall, hairline cracks splintering its surface.

Amara's chorus is a constant stream of alien words and native epithets, keeping Dorian's victim pinned as four scythes arc out from the armor with violent fervor, the Hatter's Gluttonous teeth being sheared away bit by bit as her teeth move to deflects the furious blows. Her mouth is opening wider and wider by the second as your Knightlings surge forth, tearing her puppets' bodies asunder as Keane plugs the exits with wall of mucus. Your tongue lashes out, snagging one of the ruined pillars and hurtling you into melee range, and that's when the Hatter's entire body lets loose with a furious screech, and the brim of her hat tips back.

The ground moves, incessant screeching joining the Daughter in her mad cry as hundreds, thousands of starved rats erupt from the grounds and walls of the ruined house, pouring forth from every crevice and swarming towards her attackers. Her screech cuts short as the hat leaves her head, thin fibers stretching out and yanking it over the far wall and out of sight. The body it inhabited just crumbles, a limp sack of empty skin filled out with misshapen rats as more of their kin join the fray.

One vermin to another, they answer their Mistress' call.

(Continued)
>>
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>>3573208

November opens up with the Porcupine, its sharply rhythmic retort tearing through wave after wave of rat as they stream out in a torrent of mangy, infected flesh while Amara keeps the perimeter on lockdown, her clones driving back the tide of rats back towards the house...back to where her true body lies in wait.

You redirect yourself mid-leap for your tongue to carry you over the wall, and you land with a tumble on the other side of the dining room space to a shattered patio just as Jackie and Quinn follow you around the other side. You rise to face...

She is a hideous, gnashing thing, all teeth and fur and carnal want. Her naked, wiry body stands nearly seven feet tall, covered in patches of discolored fur and the faces of chittering rats. The hat latches onto her verminous, multifaceted skull, its Neuromantic power lancing along her body as every pair of eyes on her body glitter with uncanny light. You look around, and even in the dark you can see them, a sea of ravenous mouths and shining eyes, roiling towards you with chattering teeth glinting in the light of November's assault.

Thanks to Amara, the Hatter's trapped…as are you.

Your eyes meet hers, and she just laughs.


Shu the Defiant, Hunter of Gods

VS.

THE HATTER OF HAMELIN

HP: 610% (+35%)
BIO: 530% (+50%, 4 Knighted Nomlings, 4/25 Active)
CONTENDER: Empty, Base Form.
RAVENOUS MAW: Primed.
HUNDRED-HANDED: None.
ACT: 3/3

AMARA HP: 400% (+80%, Shrouded)
DORIAN HP: 330% (+125%, Tormentis Boost: 500%)
NOVEMBER: 1290%

Threat: High, close. You are surrounded by her swarm and in melee range of her.

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, my sincerest apologies for the delay and my thanks for your patience. Voting shall remain open for the next two hours, and I hope that you are having a good day.)
>>
>>3573212
this fukkin bitch.

NOVEMBER;
>use your arsenal as you see fit to keep her swarm occupied.
>if you see a good opening, and have the time to spare, fire off a KAISER FLARE at the Hatter.

JACKIE, DORIAN, KEANE, and AMARA;
>work together to use your liquid like constructs and Amara clone Crimsons as a secondary wall to aid November against the horde.
>Have Jackie amplify their abilities so we can better keep the swarm off of us.

ACE and QUINN;
>Get out front and have Ace act as our main guard against the Hatter, blocking incoming hits and Quinn taking pot shots at what Ace blacks to get her anti-bodies kicking in.

SHU;
>Load up two BBs and fire one into each of the Hatters legs.
>Spawn a Bishop for Quinn and Ace.
>Spawn two Knighted-Armlings and have them go to pin down the Hatters arms.
>Spawn 6 Rec(5)-Bane-Drillings to dash for the Hatters joins and necks. the acid should make any attempt to eat them become a bad nightmare, if their drills dont allow them to dig out alone.
>Spawn a cloaked, Knighted-Nomling, as big as you need, and have it fly high. when it sees an opportunity, have it dash to eat and destroy the hat.

DORIAN;
>keep on the move, and be prepared to use your strength and daggers to pin down the Hatter if it tries to flee.
>increase Strength as needed to hold him down.


>>3573216
its no problem, hope work wasn't too harsh, as id assume that is what grabbed hold of ya.
>>
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(Gentlemen, I believe I will be extending the voting period until tomorrow morning and pausing the thread here for the evening on account of work and some personal plans shifting around unexpectedly. I could try and push it, but I feel as though that wouldn't be fair to you if I sped through my calculations and writing, as I wish to bring you accurate and effective information during combat and I have the sneaking suspicious I would end up having to bamboozle myself more than I'd like. Thus, voting shall remain open for the next fifteen hours, with posting to resume shortly thereafter.)

(I shall be around intermittently this evening to address any questions you may have to help get your combat plans in order, as usual. Please note that I have omitted the Midnight Crew's stats for space, but I will put them up if any of them suffer damage or ailments that warrant particular attention. Please do not hesitate to ask if you have any questions, and I hope you have a good evening.)
>>
>>3573238
you do what you need to do, enjoy your personal plans!
>>
>>3573212
Do we still have the rook?

>>3573238
No worries, hope your evening goes well too.
>>
>>3573246
thats a good question. having two to help Aid Ace in taking hits would be a good idea,if they weren't so expensive. having to replace it would be pretty hefty a price.
>>
>>3573246
(You do still have the Rook, yes. Amara's Guardian is staying close by her and is attuned to her, so it does not count against your limit. My apologies, your Bio status should read as follows;)

>>BIO: 530% (+50%, 4 Knighted Nomlings, 1 Rook, 5/25 Active)
>>
>>3573233
adding in;
SHU;
>Have your 4 Knighted-Nomlings help November hold off the horde.
>Have your Rook help aid Ace in her efforts.
>>
>>3573238
That's fine, BHOP. Have a nice evening.
>>
>>3573233
We should form our armor, too. It gives resistance to Neuromancy, we'll want that if we're in close proximity to the Hatter. And I wouldn't be upset to have its drill-stingers automatically deliver a load of exothermic acid to any limb of hers that touches us.
>>
>>3573288
my hope was that Ace would be enough for now, as honestly ive been thinking about cutting back on some of what Shu might spawn as i think i calculated all her actions out to a cost of 400+ Biomass at its current.

i guess she doesn't REALLY need the 4 Knighted-Nomlings honestly so she could recycle them?
>>
>>3573288
maybe this will work better? cuts down on her costs significantly.

SHU;
>Load up two BBs and fire one into each of the Hatters legs.
>Have your 4 Knighted-Nomlings fall back and recycle into Chitinous Armor for Shu, and otherwise help eat the cost of other Swarmlings.
>Have your Rook help aid Ace in her efforts.
>Spawn a Bishop for Quinn and Ace.
>Spawn two Bane-Armlings and have them go to pin down the Hatters arms.
>Spawn 5 Bane-Drillings to dash for the Hatters joins and necks. the acid should make any attempt to eat them become a bad nightmare, if their drills don't allow them to dig out alone.
>Spawn a cloaked, Knighted-Nomling, as big as you need, and have it fly high. when it sees an opportunity, have it dash to eat and destroy the hat.
>>
>>3573315
The math on recycling is a bit tricky, since we can split them apart but not join them together, at least at range. Give me a minute, roommate just got back with takeout, I'll work out the order of how to do this after I eat.
>>
>>3573328
we can get 3.07(39% out of 40%) Armor Sections out of each Knighted-Nomling, meaning we only need to break down two for the totality of the Armor, the rest can go to Baneling variants.
>>
AAAAAAHHHHHH
GOD FUCK
SHIT
WORK WAS STRESSFUL TONIGHT
>>
>>3573351
you're telling me haha
well, that sucks, but you have some time to unwind and plenty of time to plan out our next move with us other Anons, so no rush man, go get some food or something.
>>
>>3573339
Yeah, but then we have 1% on one and 14% on another and it's a mess. But I'm overthinking it. We have the two Knights we turn into Platelings transform as they move over to join with Shu, she'll be able to grab the remaining bits of biomass as they drag it over and combine it thanks to it being in contact with her. So that's a full set, plus 15% left over to turn into Banelings. Want to spend the Health cost for the Gurrenling augmentation instead of the Bio cost? We're at full Health currently and will regenerate that 30% spent by the next round. So that would make three Bane-Gurrenlings. I don't think we need five of them, if we're also going to shoot the Hatter in each leg. We can focus them on her arms and neck, while the B.33s in her legs get to work taking out her knee caps.

(Also, it would look so cool. Two giant insects crash into Shu from either side, unfolding into armor plates that wrap around her. Then a trio of drill-tipped living missiles launch out from her back and embed themselves into the Hatter.)

Also, I'm not sure we should use the Grapplings. Despite their name, they're not actually that great at grappling. They don't actually have hands, just fist-shaped clubs. They can't hold down the Hatter themselves, we'd have to conjure Hundred-Hands from them. We can spawn Hundred-Hands from the Gurrenlings embedded in her flesh. They'll be less powerful on their own instead of with the Grapplings' boost to the skill, but the Hatter doesn't strike me as a strength-focused build. They should be able to hold her on their own.

So that just makes it two Bishops and a Subversive Knighted Nomling. We can still have two Knighted Nomlings helping hold the line, too. That makes the total cost (30% Health, 145% Bio). Oh, and whatever we spend on Hundred-hands to grapple her, so let's say another 30% Bio for ten arms?

>>3573351
I'm sorry to hear that, anon. But hey, you're home now and can relax and unwind and plan out how to fight a Rat Queen with us.
>>
>>3573351
(I hope you can get some rest, Anon. I know how you feel, and I'm glad you're off work, now.)
>>
am >>3573351
Back at my own computer.

>>3573404
I need a situational report on where everyone is what they did in the opening round of combat, where they are now at the start of round 2 of combat. what constructs there are in play, and what did the Hatter of Hamelin did in the opening round.

Please and thank you.
>>
>>3573464
Same question extends to
>>3573397
and >>3573397
>>
>>3573527
Hatter tried to do something, but Ace and Dorian interrupted her. Her body was destroyed, but as we feared it's not her real form. It looks like the actual Hatter is either the Hat itself, or at least able to transfer between bodies using the Hat. She is currently occupying a body heavily corrupted by Hive Mistress skills, making it a gross many-headed rat monster. Said rat monster is currently engaging Shu in melee, Quinn and Jackie are close enough to aid and Dorian can probably get here in a moment. There's also a swarm of rat constructs in here. A wall of Amara clones running Queen Crimson is maintaining a perimeter so that none of them can escape. November is burning them away with her plasma weapons.
>>
>>3573464
>>3573546
(The second Anon's link should have everything you need. If you have any other questions, please let me know.)
>>
>>3573546
>a mad hatter
>A literal talking hat
This is gonna be a case of kill the Lich's phylactery.

>The body it inhabited just crumbles, a limp sack of empty skin filled out with misshapen rats as more of their kin join the fray.

Hmm....
Okay. Lets walk and talk this out step by step.
She's a Hive Mistress type daughter who has Gluttonous secondaries... And her construct theme is rats... Where have I heard this before? I vaguely recall that we had a brainstorming session in a previous vein where an anon listed out Hive Mistress Daughter ideas for Bhop...
If the swarm of rats is an indication, then the Hatter has choosen the Swarm route of her Hive Mistress path since there's literally no way that a Hive Mistress can command that many rat constructs.
We know that for a fact because Queen Route Hive Mistresses are limited to a few or several constructs as their swarm limit, Shu's the only "balanced" Hive Mistress in the world as she took the Fool's choice. And Diana's leech swarm seemed innumerable which is the same as Hatter.

So Hatter definitely has a Hive Mistress Core and a Gluttonous secondary. Or a hybrid of Hive Mistress and Gluttonous which still resulted in a swarm-type upgrade path.
And her construct puppets are simply rats in a skin-sack.
>>
>>3573568
>>3573546
Also, I can't help but notice that Shu has a (Boss) subtitle after her epithet. Subtitles are something reserved for Bosses, yet you gave Shu a subtitle. Did we really deserve that? because holy fuck that's a hefty title to live up to.

Additional questions:
I know for a fact that Hatter, Shu, Jack, and Quinn are on the broken Patio of the house, Dorian and Ace are in the Dining Hall, So where is Amara Prime, November and the Amara Clones in relation to the Patio?
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>>3573569
>Shu's the only "balanced" Hive Mistress in the world as she took the Fool's choice.
Probably not the only one. It's a big planet, I'm sure there are other Hive Mistresses flipping off Mother. But probably the only one around here, yeah.

The Hatter may have Neuromancy abilities, too. The Hat is certainly Neuromantic, though whether it's a Relic or a weird skill is less clear. Either way, we definitely want to destroy it. I'm leaning towards skill, though. I think even with rats in the puppets, they were coordinating the bodies better than just moving around in a skin-sack. Hatter probably has some sort of Jackling equivalent. Hatlings.

>>3573592
>Also, I can't help but notice that Shu has a (Boss) subtitle after her epithet. Subtitles are something reserved for Bosses, yet you gave Shu a subtitle. Did we really deserve that? because holy fuck that's a hefty title to live up to.
Are we or are we not hunting the would-be gods of the Crucible? When you're something more than flesh, ascended, and you've taken on the rest to end it, she'll find you in a dream tormented. Godhunter's gonna hunt you down.
>>
>>3573592
(Amara and her Clones are a medium distance away from all combatants, at the edge of the clearing which is roughly three movement zones in diameter. November made in to the dining room before opening fire, and is currently firing the Porcupine at the waves of contructs.)
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>>3573397
right, sorry, took a nap and grabbed some food.

>Yeah, but then we have 1% on one and 14% on another and it's a mess. But I'm overthinking it. We have the two Knights we turn into Platelings transform as they move over to join with Shu, she'll be able to grab the remaining bits of biomass as they drag it over and combine it thanks to it being in contact with her. So that's a full set, plus 15% left over to turn into Banelings.
yeah, and even if we lose a few % points its still saving us more than if we didn't do this.

>Want to spend the Health cost for the Gurrenling augmentation instead of the Bio cost? We're at full Health currently and will regenerate that 30% spent by the next round. So that would make three Bane-Gurrenlings. I don't think we need five of them, if we're also going to shoot the Hatter in each leg. We can focus them on her arms and neck, while the B.33s in her legs get to work taking out her knee caps.
yeah i can support this, makes sense.

>Also, I'm not sure we should use the Grapplings. Despite their name, they're not actually that great at grappling. They don't actually have hands, just fist-shaped clubs. They can't hold down the Hatter themselves, we'd have to conjure Hundred-Hands from them. We can spawn Hundred-Hands from the Gurrenlings embedded in her flesh. They'll be less powerful on their own instead of with the Grapplings' boost to the skill, but the Hatter doesn't strike me as a strength-focused build. They should be able to hold her on their own.
yeah...i see what you mean, its just i wanted something to help deal with its arms, but yeah we can probably do that other ways.
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>>3573212
>>3573233
>>3573660
so new plan currently looks like, and is amended to;

NOVEMBER;
>use your arsenal as you see fit to keep her swarm occupied.
>if you see a good opening, and have the time to spare, fire off a KAISER FLARE at the Hatter.

JACKIE, DORIAN, KEANE, and AMARA;
>work together to use your liquid like constructs and Amara clone Crimsons as a secondary wall to aid November against the horde.
>Have Jackie amplify their abilities so we can better keep the swarm off of us.

ACE and QUINN;
>Get out front and have Ace act as our main guard against the Hatter, blocking incoming hits and Quinn taking pot shots at what Ace blacks to get her anti-bodies kicking in.

SHU;
>Load up two BBs and fire one into each of the Hatters legs.
>Have your 4 Knighted-Nomlings fall back and recycle into Chitinous Armor for Shu, and otherwise help eat the cost of other Swarmlings.
>Have your Rook help aid Ace in her efforts.
>Spawn a Bishop for Quinn and Ace.
>Spawn 3 Bane-Drillings with Health to dash for the Hatters joins and necks. the acid should make any attempt to eat them become a bad nightmare, if their drills don't allow them to dig out alone.
>Use Hundred Handed from the Bane-Drillings as necessary to help tie up and hold the bastard down.
>Spawn a cloaked, Knighted-Nomling, as big as you need, and have it fly high. when it sees an opportunity, have it dash to eat and destroy the hat.

DORIAN;
>keep on the move, and be prepared to use your strength and daggers to pin down the Hatter if it tries to flee.
>increase Strength as needed to hold him down.
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>>3573651
How many clones did Amara spawn? and where's Keane?
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>>3573669
>DORIAN;
Let's not forget that he should be building up a decent charge with all this running around, too. We can have him fire a Static Burst at the Hatter if it looks like they'll escape.
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>>3573684
very true. was hoping to save it more for a large hit at an opening, but i suppose he can spend it early to keep the bastard down if necessary.

i wanted him to build up a seriously big stack then unleash it alongside a burst from November in a turn or two, once we see more of how much we can keep its swarm down and what tricks it may have to keep us from holding it in place for them to get their shots. but like i said you're probably right using it as a stop gap measure is probably smarter, though i do imagine the damage dealt if we could pull off said maneuver would be tremendous.
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>>3573669
(Fourteen clones are active, and Keane is currently close to Amara Prime and keeping her safe.)

>>3573684
(Dorian currently has two stacks active, and I'll make note of it on the next update status tracker.)
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>>3573663
>>3573602
The issue I'm seeing with this is that this is assuming Hatter will stay and fight. Hatter knows she's out-numbered from the opening round, and the first thing she did after having her first two actions of the opening round rebuffed was flee.
We need to ensure that this trap firmly closes shut.

>>3573696
Looking at Dorian's Char-sheet he's got:
>Cursus Alas: which gives him maybe 1 or 2 additional zones of movement range if used
>Spring Heeled Jack, which gives him an additional zone of movement range
>500% Sui Tormentis Boost (Type speed I think?) We need to clearly define what stat the boost is for.
>Canvas Form, which gives him a teleport-type movement.
>Plus Dorian's Base movement speed
>that's probably about 10 zones of movement.

Hey Bhop, with Dorian's 500% Sui Tormentis boost, Spring Heeled Jack, Canvas Form, and Cursus Alas lvl 2, how many zones of movement can Dorian cross in a single action? How many zones can Dorian cross if all actions was spent on movement?
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>>3573709
also, what stat is Sui Tormentis augmenting by 500%?
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>>3573712
...like all of Shus orders are focused on keeping it pinned, the only potential thing we could add is Shu going in for a slash to activate the BBs sooner, which is a bit risk til we see what this thing can do a bit more.

you are also overlooking Dorian is assigned ot kpee it from running, and if November can blind it, it wont be able to properly run, ASWELL as you are overlooking both Keane and Amaras barrier is still up, its just something already in place with not upkeep cost does need to be re-mentioned, but if it helps you work with the plan i can put it on there just for the sake of it.
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>>3573712
You know, we might want to just have him zoom around the house a few times. Switching from Critic to Canvas causes him to do a minimum of four attacks to each opponent he passes along his way on the same turn. He's currently in Critic. Swap over, have him do a lap of the area, and it should shred all the rats. Unless the rats are so individually small they don't count as valid targets for the blood wind's attacks, but it is a blood wind, after all. Should be able to do area of effect well.
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>>3573712
>>3573716
(Tormentis is augmenting speed, and Dorian may now cross twelve zones in a turn. He may now quite literally run laps around the combat zone several times over with both ACTs devoted to movement.)
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>>3573734
i doubt he could get them all alone, and two machineguns, a shotgun, mucus constructs made to fight other constructs, and a loli wall of red twirling blood whips can probably do the job better. mostly i want his ACTs a bit more free incase he needs to chase down the Hatter, which is easier to have him do if he just aids with paintlings, rather than running around outright focusing on the rats in melee.
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>>3573734
What if we had all of that movement directed towards running around in literal circles around Hatter? It's got lots of fur. Fur helps accumulate Static Electricity, which helps Dorian gather even more static electrical charge.

>>3573709
How much Bio-nectar/bio-pollen have our Knighted Nomlings gathered?
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>>3573744
Do the rats count as valid targets for Red Death level three?

>>3573747
His movement is so high and the arena so small that we could easily work the blood cyclone into a movement action meant just to get close to her. He's got a few extra zones of movement, they'd just go to waste otherwise. And we want him close anyway, a Dorian in her face is better able to respond to her trying to escape.
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>>3573764
That and he's got the GutGrab Knife for Grapple melee.

Also, I bet keane is gonna pull an 40k Ork Reference to how "red wunz go fasta"
Should we also have Dorian sacrifice some hp to boost his defense or his strength? I have the feeling he's gonna need it in order to power through the literal river of rats his mist form is gonna swim through. or for grappling the Hatter.

>>3573744
Also, Bhop, where did the hat go? or did the hat transform into the Giant rat that we're looking at?
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>>3573774
>Also, Bhop, where did the hat go? or did the hat transform into the Giant rat that we're looking at?
The rat is wearing it. It's the rat in the hat, and we are going to put an end to that.
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>>3573774
the hat is on the Hatters head.

>>3573764
eh, yeah fair enough.

>>3573663
amending some stuff here;

JACKIE, KEANE, and AMARA;
>keep up your outer barriers to keep the Hatter from fleeing.
>work together to use Mucus constructs and Amara clone Crimsons as a secondary wall to aid November against the horde.
>Have Jackie amplify their abilities so we can better keep the swarm off of us.

DORIAN;
>keep on the move, and be prepared to use your strength and daggers to pin down the Hatter if it tries to flee.
>increase Strength as needed to hold the Hatter down as necessary.
>Keep on the move, using your scythes and high movement speed to help thin out the Rat swarm until your attention is needed elsewhere.
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>>3573748
(A negligible amount, as the constructs have very little health.)

>>3573764
(They absolutely do, and they would be quite effective given their nature as wide slashing weapons.)

>>3573774
>>3573778
(The hat is on the rat... a Rat in the Hat, as Anon indicated.)
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>>3573787
>Keep on the move, using your scythes and high movement speed to help thin out the Rat swarm until your attention is needed elsewhere.
He doesn't even need to make it separate actions. Switching from Critic to Canvas lets him make one free attack on everything he passes per scythe he had active in Critic form. Since he starts with four scythes, that's a minimum of four attacks (with Dorian's ridiculous critical rate) on every valid target he moves past. Dorian is an army killer.

>>3573793
>(They absolutely do, and they would be quite effective given their nature as wide slashing weapons.)
Brillig. Okay, then, let's have Dorian zig-zag his way to the Hatter, then.
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>>3573800
yes i know that...but just saying 'run around in circles' feels stupid, so for the sake of clarity i said why and why he is moving.
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>>3573800
(Dorian and Julia are on opposite sides of the Flesh Artisan trees, and are natural compliments as a result; he is an slayer of mobs, while she is a killer of titans.)
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>>3573805
I think that terms like "blood tornado" help a lot in making things sound less silly. Or at least a different kind of silly.

>>3573807
And then we gave him Accumulated Charge, so after he's done killing the mob he can support Julia with a strategic lightning bolt or two.
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>>3573810
(A friend of mine who keeps up with the quest via my recaps asked me what Dorian could do now, and I basically turned to her and said "He's Dracula, but if Dracula were The Flash.")
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>>3573807
Random as hell question, but if Amaras Guardian Hearted FuzzBuzz dies, would the Heart be destroyed along with it, or have a chance to survive?

>>3573810
eh, i guess.
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>>3573778
>>3573793
So if the Rat in the Hat is a Rat wearing the hat, does that mean there's a Rat inside the hat which is worn by the Rat wearing the hat? Ergo, a Rat in the hat, piloting a giant rat in a hat?

Goddammit. This is turning Dr. Seuss levels silly.

>>3573810
Have the Lightning bolt fry the hat. The Hit-scan nature of the Accumulated charge, the Rat's situation of being flanked by all sides, and Dorian's extreme agility and speed would guarantee the hat's destruction.
>>3573764
So if Shu, Quinn and Jack are keeping the Rat in the hat occupied, That leaves Dorian free to do a hit and run attacks on the Hatter... actually, I have a better idea, what if we had Shu plant a Subversive Baneling bomb on the Rat, have it crawl up to the hat, and then self-destruct, destroying the hat? It's obvious the Rat in the Hat's main priority is protecting the Hat.

Also, I'm weary of the Neuromancy it has.
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>>3573818
Which dracula are you referring to? Castlevania Dracula or Hellsing Dracula? There's a difference.
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>>3573820
>So if Shu, Quinn and Jack are keeping the Rat in the hat occupied, That leaves Dorian free to do a hit and run attacks on the Hatter... actually, I have a better idea, what if we had Shu plant a Subversive Baneling bomb on the Rat, have it crawl up to the hat, and then self-destruct, destroying the hat? It's obvious the Rat in the Hat's main priority is protecting the Hat.
The current plan is to have a Nomling snatch it off and start eating it.
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>>3573818
>"He's Dracula, but if Dracula were The Flash."
ok thats a fukkin good one, that caught me off guard haha.

>>3573820
whats wrong with my plan to have a subversive knighted-Nomling eat the hat? and yeah, im worried about neuromancy too, but we saw it seems it comes from the hat, so hence why im trying to get rid of the hat.

id prefer a swarmling over lightning too, as lighting could curve to someplace we do not want, or could be dodged, a swarmling can shift and edit its trajectory, and can be stealthed.
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>>3573819
(Excellent question; Relics are separate from their wielders, so unless the damage it suffered was from significant splash damage like November's Autumn attack, then the Relic would survive the bearer.)

>>3573822
(There absolutely is. I was referring to the Castlevania Dracula, though an evolution into the Hellsing version isn't out of the question.)
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>>3573828
awesome.
now the REAL important question, would any personality the construct starts to develop due to its self autonomy and time spent with Amara be saved inside the heart, or lost when it dies defending her?
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>>3573827
Oh... I haven't considered the Knighted-Nomling. Well in that case I'm fine with your idea of snatching the hat via stealth Nomling.
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>>3573830
(It would lose its memories, but if the heart were installed in a new Swarmling it would feel a lingering fondness for its little ward...an echo of a life once lived.)
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>>3573831
awesome, anything else you can think of to add or alter?

>>3573835
fair enough, better than nothing. hopefully it wont come to that, but if it does, he can die with his head held high knowing he did his duty.
>am now imaging FuzzBuzz giving Amara a sad, cute little salute as he gets overwhelmed by constructs or something.
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>>3573835
So we need to create a Cortical Stack Relic, too. Would that be Neuromancer or Phantasmal Conduit? Maybe both. Mix it with some Hive Mistress to specialize it for constructs and it should be overall cheaper.
>>
(Gentlemen, I am afraid I must head to bed for the evening, so I hope you have a restful night and I shall address any further questions in the morning. Sleep well, one and all.)
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>>3573840
take care BHOP, have a wonderful night!
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>>3573840
Sleep well, BHOP.
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>>3573839
>mfw when we stack so much shit onto Amaras FuzzBuzz he is basically another party member, or something irreplaceable to massive levels like Novembers Tank.
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>>3573839
We upgrade Guardian's Heart by crafting a Neurotic Halo duplicate and weaving the strands of the halo into the Relic heart via Forge. the result will be something like this:
>GUARDIAN'S SOUL: Basically Guardian's Heart but better. It retains its memories, develops a personality, and will always attempt to reunite with its original ward if revived, and will guard the corpse of its charge should the impossible happen. Depending on how long its active alongside its ward, it will steadily gain resistance culminating into complete Immunity against attempts to delete its memories or override its will. the relic will end up looking like pic related.
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>>3573838
>Have your 4 Knighted-Nomlings fall back and recycle into Chitinous Armor for Shu, and otherwise help eat the cost of other Swarmlings.
>Have your Rook help aid Ace in her efforts.
>Spawn a Bishop for Quinn and Ace.
>Spawn 3 Bane-Drillings with Health to dash for the Hatters joins and necks. the acid should make any attempt to eat them become a bad nightmare, if their drills don't allow them to dig out alone.
>Spawn a cloaked, Knighted-Nomling, as big as you need, and have it fly high. when it sees an opportunity, have it dash to eat and destroy the hat.

All of this can be done in 1 Act since it fully exploits our Core ability.
I would like to add the following to our Full Hive Mistress Core exploitation action:
>Fill up the rest of your swarmling slots with Basic Swarmlings, and have all of our Swarmling Spawns construction results be boosted by Jackie via King's Envoy for 1 turn. Possibly have the quality of the Swarmlings be massively boosted by King's Envoy.

Instead of going for the grapple, I should suggest having the Hundred Handed be our parrying defense system. the instantaneous generation of the arms will provide crucial defense against any bite or claw. And I've got a feeling that the way Hatter kills her prey for Lobotomy tea parties is by Neuromantic Infection through Rat bites.

Also, if the Rat doesn't flee, I would like to suggest having Dorian to end his second act on-top of the Rat and entering a condensed version of Masque of War form (Basically Horror at Red Hook except without Julia) as a way for him to disrupt all thought form/Neuromancy on the Rat and as a way to box the Rat even further in. If the Rat doesn't flee or toss its hat that is...
>>3573212
>Send a warning to all of our party members: "Beware of the Rat bites. Neuromancy and Gluttonous sub powers with a Hive Mistress Core that's taken the Swarm Route."
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>>3573991
a bit late but

>Fill up the rest of your swarmling slots with Basic Swarmlings, and have all of our Swarmling Spawns construction results be boosted by Jackie via King's Envoy for 1 turn. Possibly have the quality of the Swarmlings be massively boosted by King's Envoy.
id prefer Jackie to help focus on keeping the swarm off of us, so we can better focus on the Hatter ourselves, but otherwise yeah sure regular Swarmlings work.

>Instead of going for the grapple, I should suggest having the Hundred Handed be our parrying defense system. the instantaneous generation of the arms will provide crucial defense against any bite or claw.
id think Ace and our Rook will be enough, aswell as if we are able to keep Hatter distracted and/or wrap it up, it wont exactly have claws to swing at us anyways. the Arms also have no increased defensive properties, so instantaneous or not, a strong enough attack or whatnot could still easily just swipe right through them with minimum loss to effectiveness, especially compared to actual armor or defensive options.

>Also, if the Rat doesn't flee, I would like to suggest having Dorian to end his second act on-top of the Rat and entering a condensed version of Masque of War form (Basically Horror at Red Hook except without Julia) as a way for him to disrupt all thought form/Neuromancy on the Rat and as a way to box the Rat even further in. If the Rat doesn't flee or toss its hat that is...
well, that all depends on if he can use the Daggers while in that form, as if he cant actually truly physically holding the Hatter in place with increased strength, at least til the BBs go off, is the better option.
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>>3574378
I wonder if we can spam the transition of
Critic into Canvas form
and
Creator into Canvas form.
The Former for clearing enemy mobs, and then the latter for replacing the cleared space with our own mobs. If Dorian can generate 5 Blood Constructs from Crossing a single Movement Zone from the Creator to Canvas skill, what happens if you give him the ability to cross twelve a turn?
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>>3574408
hard to say, as switching may be a free action, but still changes what he can overall do, and interrupts the previous forms actions. also that would be 60 Inklings. thats alot of Inklings.
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>>3574408
I think that's possible, yes. However, it's not as useful as you're thinking. It's five blood constructs per movement action, not per movement zone. Dorian going faster doesn't let him make more constructs that way.
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>>3574431
Damn. and now it's suddenly less useful than I thought....
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>>3574431
ah, yeah i misread that myself too. ah well, maybe it'll get upgraded in future levels.
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>>3573212

The roar of November’s armament echoes through the forest, shaking the black leaves of the treetops above as you watch the Hatter of Hamelin break out into a furious, chattering charge alongside her swarm. A blur of scarlet races by, Dorian’s expertly-wielded scythes carving a bloody swathe through the horde just as the Hatter’s talon’s rake down at your face with terrible speed. Her jagged nails glance off the Chitinous helm that slides into place a half-second before impact, the attack awarding her a face-full of acid and a lungful of chaff as she staggers back, the rest of your Knightlings transforming into your green-black armor as you stalk towards the wretch.

Her mouths smirk as the acid rolls harmlessly off her patchwork skin…and then a horrified scream rips free of her throat as the liquid ignites with pale green flames. She shock gives you the time you need to load in the second B.33 round into the Contender’s barrel, and with a keen eye and a practiced hand you send both rounds burrowing through the Hatter’s kneecaps with a caress of the trigger. She collapses at the same moment Ace smashes through a nearby wall with Quinn in hot pursuit as you feel Jackie’s powers fill your Hive to bursting with creation, and at your silent command nearly two dozen Gurrenlings pour from your hive in a buzzing stream of murderous stingers. They descend as one upon the crippled Hatter, and just as her body disappears underneath a cloud of chitin her hat makes its move.

Its tendrils fire out, almost as quickly as your Hundred-Handed limbs can compress as it hurtles past the Midnight Crew and your cloaked Nomling, attempting to make an escape as it lands and lashes itself along the ground with incredible speed towards the wall of Amaras. Dorian’s at the rear of the house and is making his way around as he cleaves a path through the waves of vermin, but even now the hat threatens to clear the barrier before he can reach it.

You’re about to yell for the clones to stop it…but they just smile as Amara throws off her cloak right in front of the scrambling hat. Its tendrils reach out, grabbing hold of Amara’s head as your youngest ally tilts back, drawing in a deep breath as Jackie’s power-enhancement field flares around Amara’s body.

The hat’s moving too fast to avoid Amara’s catastrophic sneeze.

(Continued)
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>>3574443

The blast is tremendous, drowning out November’s cannon-fire with a single overwhelming burst of sound and fury. Everyone but you has to turn away, the shielded visor of the Chitinous Stalwart allowing you to revel in the sight of the hat being torn to shreds in the blink of an eye, the biomass shorn away and leaving only a curious black gemstone that Amara plucks from the ground. November’s gunfire ceases as you watch the glittering sea of eyes around you turn to sightless jelly, the thousand-strong army dissolving into nothingness.

It takes several long seconds for the echoes of Amara’s tremendous sneeze to finally fade.

“…Bless you.” Keane says beside her, softly.

The woods are silent once more as your allies and the Midnight Crew converge on your position, everyone present catching their breath from the scuffle.

“Anyone else get the feeling we were a little over-levelled for that?” Keane says, finally breaking the silence. Jackie just chuckles

“Perhaps…I do wish I’d been able to draw it out a little longer.” Dorian says, his visor sliding back to reveal his face contorted into a hateful expression as he looks at the ruins. You can’t help but notice his hair and armor crackle with white-hot sparks as he speaks. “She did not deserve such a swift en…”

He’s interrupted as the trees to the north rumble with movement, portent of the awakening of a colossal form that begins to lumber towards you, the woods violently parting in its wake.

“I should’ve said ‘excuse me’.” Amara says sheepishly, looking up at you with a guilty expression.

“Don’t feel bad…” Beside her, November looks down at the cooling barrel of her B.A.R. with a bitter sigh.

“…’cause I’m pretty sure this was my doing, kiddo.” She groans.

HP: 615% (+35%) [Armored]
BIO: 356% (+50%, 5 Knighted Platelings, 2 Bishops [Quinn/Ace, 3 Rds Left], 1 Knighted Nomling [Cloaked] 1 Rook, 21 Basic, 5/30 Active)
GLUTTONOUS BROOD: 36% Healing
CONTENDER: Empty, Base Form.
RAVENOUS MAW: Primed.
HUNDRED-HANDED: None.
ACT: 3/3

AMARA HP: 400% (+80%, Shrouded)
DORIAN HP: 330% (+125%, Tormentis Boost: 500%, 7 CHARGE STACKS)
NOVEMBER: 1240%

Threat: Distant, approaching rapidly. Abilities unknown.

>>Flee, retreating in the direction of your choice.

>>Hold your ground, and plan how to ambush the creature.

>>Stay where you are and greet the beast as a team.

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Four, Gentlemen. Four critical hits rolled against the Hatter; three from your swarm, one from Amara. The odds were disgusting, and your plan was perfect. Well done.)

(Voting shall remain open for the next two hours.)
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>>3574452
>Our fighting attracted the Hungry Wonderland Beast.
So what caused it to approach? was it November's Gunfire or was it Amara's cute sneeze? Because I'm definitely sure the sound of "ACHOO~" being louder than November's Cannonfire would make the beast aware of prey.
Also, I am glad that we kept Amara's Sneeze Cannon.

Also, is it possible to Focus the sight on what the monster looks like for half-an action?
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>>3574452
I think this is Amara's first actual kill. I'm...proud of her? Like, I don't want the seven year-old girl to have to kill things, but it is something she's going to have to do eventually and I'm just glad she didn't get hurt.
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>>3574446
Damn Amara, thats one powerful sneeze. Though id say we made some poor rolls for her ot have to use it.

Also fuck it, lets try this;
>>Hold your ground, and plan how to ambush the creature.

SHU and KEANE;
>have your swarm take ambush positions, then wait for the beast while eveyone else hides.
>once the beast appears, get it to charge you, then, at the last second, have your Rook switch places with you, and your swarm dash out and use Hundred-Handed chains to tie it up as it impacts the Rook, which will have support from your Knighted Nomling to help it hold its position against the charge.
>Have Keane rush out Mucuslings to help hold the Monster in place

DORIAN, NOVEMBER, and JACKIE;
>Have Dorian build up what more charges he can without revealing himself, maybe be bait to lure the creature to Shu before teleporting away as shu gets it attention.
>With November on one side, and Dorian on the other, have Dorian unleash all his stacks onto the Creature, while November unleashes her AUTUMN PROTOCOL.
>Have JAckie boost Dorians Charges.

ACE, QUINN, and AMARA;
>Be prepared to rush in to aid or dish out any final damage if this thing doesn't go down.
>Main focus should be regrouping and getting a firm defensive position, if things do go south.
>>
>>3574457
It was a Rat in a Hat that she killed. Not a talking daughter.
>>
>>3574461
i think it was a daughter, just one so far gone to the corruption it didn't look like it. that'd be like saying Mara isnt a human/daughter, due to being a dragon, despite what she still is deep down.
>>
>>3574459
I don't want to commit to anything yet. Let's get a better look at this thing first before we fight it. And I definitely don't want to use the Autumn Protocol unduly. Yeah, we gave November a backup gun, but it still takes out all her most useful abilities.
>>
>>3574464
i disagree. we have an opportunity to strike first and strike hard, wasting it would be amiss of us.

its not coming in silently, its not sitting still like the Hatter, observing it will be more difficult, and we can use its momentum against it. i also disagree on the Protocols, as the whole point is to end this in basically one shot. if it can survive both that and Dorians boosted Charge, plus anything else we hit it with, we would probably NEED that damage on it to stand a proper chance of taking it out cleanly.
>>
>>3574459
Instead of bothering with ambush places, why not Terraform the clearing instead to create Ambush Fox-holes? Lets do another Amara Clone Bait tactic. The Beast is hungry, so any daughter-like biomass would feed its hunger and curiosity.

Also, instead of having November open up with the Autumn Protocol, why not open up with a Kaiser Flare? It'll blind the beast while making it super vulnerable to Critical hits.
Autumn Protocol seems like a massive waste of Energy and a good way to get November killed.

I almost typed in "Tyrant Burst" instead of Kaiser Flare

>>3574463
Technicalities, In Amara's point of view, it was a Rat in a Hat!.
>>
>>3574471
see
>>3574470
if we can get November a clean shot with it, its more than worth the effort. plus if we end the fight quickly, she then is out of combat and gets to cool off. if it can survive such an onslaught, we would need the damage done to it anyways.

blinding it means nothing if we already impair its movement, though im not against adding in Terraforming to further hold it down.
>>
>>3574470
I'm not saying not to ambush it, just that I'd like to have eyes on it as we plan. We've got like seven different enhanced senses options, let's take advantage of them.

And Autumn Protocol is a finishing move, if November uses it and it doesn't kill the creature then she's greatly decreased in power for the rest of the fight. If you want a heavy blast, how about the Cluster Launcher instead?
>>
>>3574476
Cluster is more an AOE, it wont be as good on a single giant target.

the whole point is to MAKE this a finishing move. it would make no sense to waste that much power on something basically already dead, so it being an actual finishing move i disagree on.

also i am sending Dorian forward and we can have Amara keep her ears primed. we could send her skyward on the Cloaked Knighling with her shroud i guess, to get a better view, but im still thinking going for a hard hit while we can is what we should do.
>>
>>3574452
Bhop, how many rounds do we have before it reaches the clearing? will it reach us by the end of this round?
>>
>>3574459
I also want to set a Neuromancy trap by making a blade pit, placing a layer of earth over it, and keeping it that way with Earthen Mind as well as violently reverting it once its on top of the trap.
>>
>>3574474
While we can not hunt it int he traditional sense that we sppook it and push it into a trap could we terraform the clearing into a mess of pitfalls with a thin layer of skin above(ennough to hold us but not the monster) them and the inside of the pits being covered in spikes and razor sharp calcite baldes to make it go down without us even having to hit it directly

>>3574484

The spikes and blades should also be curved downward to make it impossible to extracate itself from without tearing out huge cunks of flesh
>>
>>3574484
How about using a Spiraling to deploy Fear To Tread at range? Knock the Bandersnatch prone, make it have to deal with being caught in a meat grinder.
>>
>>3574490
How do you know it's a bandersnatch?
>>
>>3574493
Oh, I plan on using Lewis Carrol references interchangeably when talking about the Jubjub Bird.
>>
>>3574455
(It was November's gunfire that started the process. Also, it is roughly the size and length of a pair of tractor-trailers, and more worm like than anything.)

>>3574471
(Ha, I almost type it out regularly, as well.)
>>
>>3574489
>>3574484
im fine with this idea but i dont trust the pitfall trap alone to kill it.

>>3574446
>>3574459
small amendments;

Also fuck it, lets try this;
>>Hold your ground, and plan how to ambush the creature.

SHU and KEANE;
>Have Shu terraform a hidden pitfall trap infront of her from where the beast is charging from.
>have your swarm take ambush positions, then wait for the beast while everyone else hides.
>once the beast appears, get it to charge you, then, at the last second, have your Rook switch places with you, and your swarm dash out and use Hundred-Handed chains to tie it up as it impacts the Rook, which will have support from your Knighted Nomling to help it hold its position against the charge.
>Have Keane rush out Mucuslings to help hold the Monster in place.
>Once Shu has teleported away, use Further Terraforming to squeeze the walls and blades of the pitfall trap further onto the Amalgam.

DORIAN, NOVEMBER, and JACKIE;
>Have Dorian build up what more charges he can without revealing himself, be bait to lure the creature to Shu before teleporting away as Shu gets it attention.
>With November on one side, and Dorian on the other, have Dorian unleash all his stacks onto the Creature, while November unleashes her AUTUMN PROTOCOL.
>Have Jackie boost Dorians Charges.

ACE, QUINN, and AMARA;
>Be prepared to rush in to aid or dish out any final damage if this thing doesn't go down.
>Main focus should be regrouping and getting a firm defensive position, if things do go south.
>>
>>3574481
(You have one full round before it arrives.)
>>
>>3574497
The beast has heavy footfalls which shakes the forest trees. The Jub Jub bird is a creature that flies. I don't think it would fight well in a forest.

>>3574498
>Worm-like.
>He’s interrupted as the trees to the north rumble with movement, portent of the awakening of a colossal form that begins to lumber towards you, the woods violently parting in its wake.
>Length of two Semi Trucks (with trailers) end to end
Does it have legs or is it a complete worm?
>>3574500
You may have to amend your plans. we got physical information on the approaching beast.
>>
>>3574504
(It appears to have vestigial feet of some kind.)
>>
>>3574505
How many legs can we see?
>>
>>3574504
i dont see why. i read that yeah, but a worm can still be held in place. hell actually a bunch of hooks and blades are exactly what you need to hold a worm in place. and if we know its a worm that means we can see it, which means its traveling via the surface.

unless you are worried its gonna burrow, and fair enough, but it can still be caught and held to get our shots off at it, it would then be more of figuring out how to time it to grab it before it burrows, or after it surfaces. seems odd to me though that if it was going to, it wouldn't of already done so.
>>
>>3574504
>The beast has heavy footfalls which shakes the forest trees. The Jub Jub bird is a creature that flies. I don't think it would fight well in a forest.
They all live in the tulgey wood, anon. All quite manxome and frumious.
>>
>>3574498
>>3574500
If it is more Wormlike the pitfall traps might not cripple it as i had hoped it might simply be to wide to fall into it the Meatgrinder idea that this anon >>3574490
suggested

A big pitfall trap might work, though we need sure that a large part of the creature is above the pit before it falls into it otherwise it might just cut its losses and rip chunks of itself off if the damage potential isnt to big

I wanted to make it pitfalls with inward curved spikes as it would massively hinder its movement until it can regenerate and it would have to look out where it treads as to not stumble upon yet more pit traps either new or old ones if it only has limited legs it might not work as well if the legs are too short to really get trapped deep in the pit and it could easily continue the assault by wriggeling foreward
>>
>>3574511
Fear To Tread's size can be adjusted, we can catch pretty much anything short of another walking mountain like the Spiraling Fear in it.
>>
>>3574446
>"We've got eyes on incoming creature. Large. A Worm that Walks. Size of Two Semi-Trucks with Trailers end to end. Very Hungry like the Very Hungry Catepillar"
>>
>>3574518
Oh, it probably is Mr. Caterpillar, isn't it? All hopped up on growth mushrooms and with a lot of anger issues.
>>
>>3574516
We can only distort the Terrain with fear to tread right now... not really turn it into a pitfall filled with spikes, i think we can only do that with terraforming neuromancy
If it fell into the pit we could distort the terrain, with fear to tread then to create the Grinder to shred it, afterwards
>>
>>3574500
I think Dorian should boost his Defense by a full 500% We have 1 full round to prepare.
>>
>>3574522
actually, that sounds like a horrifying idea. terraform a pitfall full of blades then make it start spinning. the only issue is i think we can only distort the terrain directly around Shu, and we dont want her underneath the worm to activate that.

>>3574524
i mean, sure. though the point is kinda to make that a moot point, unless his boosts carry over between battles. i suppose incase it survives it still a good thing to have though.
>>
>>3574500
Instead of pitfall traps, why not just use the Terraform the Trees to skewer and pin the Worm?

We can Prime our Critical Counter to Pin the Worm just as its head peaks into the clearing. Skewer it with a Critical Terraform spike to pin the worm, and then have November fire the Autumn Protocol at its face and down its main body lengthwise?
>>
>>3574529
I think you've forgotten about our Spiral-lings.
Fear to Tread – Spiralings (HP+, ABILITY+): Serving more as an augmentation to a preexisting skill than a combat enhancement, the sturdy Sprialings are able to situate themselves at the epicenter of an instance of Fear to Tread, augmenting its effects by forcing foes caught in the spiral to have a greater chance to fail their saves to avoid falling prone, in addition to disrupting concentration in the spiral’s area of effect. (Cost: 10% BIO)
We could use Spiral-lings to create an instance of Fear to Tread at a distance.
>>
>>3574529
My thinking was to make a giant pit it falls into in medium range. If it falls into it we use fear to tread at medium setting to shred it

>>3574531
This anons idea is interesting as well
maybe drop the pit and just critcally skewer it with a primed critical counter in several places while terraforming a wall of blades to murder it from all sides

If we do that we need to get our allies out of here though otehr wise they will be shredded as well
>>
>>3574536
No, I think we need to get Shu and November out of the Worm's way after Shu and November do their thing because Shu will definitely be running low on Bio after the Terraforming stunt she pulls on the Worm.
>>
>>3574533
that...doesn't sound like they can create it though, only enhance it?

>>3574531
i can see the merit of this, though do keep in mind a pitfall trap doesn't have to be so deep as to obscure our sight of the thing. even getting half of it down and into spikes would cripple its movement, allow us to further entrap it, and still give us plenty to aim at.

>>3574536
im not sure that would really work out how we want it. trying to use Tread here just feels...

...wait we're fucking idiots. we have the ROOK. we plan to teleport Shu away anyways. just have her stand on a slightly more solid chunk of the pitfalls canopy at the epicenter, then activate Tread before she teleports away, thus both it and the Treads effects are at the center.
>>
>>3574459
Also, why are we putting Keane in the line of the Worm's Charge? if anything it should be Shu who stands alone. Shu can Castle with her Rook for instant teleportation. Keane can't do that.
>>
>>3574543
shes not. Keane does not have to be in the line of anything to spawn constructs and send them out.
>>
>>3574539
>that...doesn't sound like they can create it though, only enhance it?
I'm pretty sure it's an omission. BHOP said in-thread something about one of our new Swarmlings being able to deploy Fear To Tread at range. I think he was referring to the Spiralings.

But yeah, here's what I'm thinking:

>Terraform a pit trap with a canopy durable enough to support our weight but not Mr. Caterpillar's
>Apply Spiraling template to Rook
>Prime Rook to castle us
>Stand out on canopy, wait for Mr. Caterpillar to attack us
>Rook swaps us out of danger from both attack and fall
>Rook deploys Fear To Tread
>Dorian (boosted by Jackie) and November use their energy attacks
>Everyone's constructs piles into Mr. Caterpillar to finish him of
>>
>>3574547
without actual confirmation i simply dont trust that is how it works, as it seems very deliberately worded to not be able to do that.

>>3574446
>>3574500
current plan is so far amended to;
>>Hold your ground, and plan how to ambush the creature.

SHU and KEANE;
>Have Shu terraform a hidden pitfall trap full of hooked blades in which she is standing at the epicenter of the canopy covering it.
>have your swarm take ambush positions, then wait for the beast while eveyone else hides.
>once the beast appears, get it to charge you, then, at the last second, have your Rook switch places with you, and your swarm dash out and use Hundred-Handed chains to tie it up as it impacts the Rook, which will have support from your Knighted Nomling to help it hold its position against the charge.
>When the Beast charges at her, have her activate Fear to Tread right before she teleports away, as to turn the hooks below her into a blender.
>Have Keane rush out Mucuslings to help hold the Monster in place.
>Once Shu has teleported away, use Further Terraforming to squeeze the walls and blades of the pitfall trap further onto the Amalgam, aswell as use the trees to impale and hold the creature down.

DORIAN, NOVEMBER, and JACKIE;
>Have Dorian build up what more charges he can without revealing himself, be bait to lure the creature to Shu before teleporting away as Shu gets it attention.
>With November aiming down its center, and Dorian aiming down from above in a tree, have Dorian unleash all his stacks onto the Creature, while November unleashes her AUTUMN PROTOCOL.
>Have Jackie boost Dorians Charges.

DORIAN;
>Boost your Armors Defense by 400%(100% Health).

ACE, QUINN, and AMARA;
>Be prepared to rush in to aid or dish out any final damage if this thing doesn't go down.
>Main focus should be regrouping and getting a firm defensive position, if things do go south.
>>
>>3574547

The issue with the pitfall is that it's a circular trap, the Creature we're fighting against is a Worm which has multiple legs and has a long length on its body. The Trap will have to be large and deep enough so that the Worm's weight will overpower the legs grip, or have the Pitfall trap altered so that it runs lengthwise instead of circular in order for the Worm to fall in.
>>
>>3574553
Honestly, I think that even if just the front half of Mr. Caterpillar falls into the grinding blade pit, that should still occupy him enough for us to do a lot of damage before he can recover.
>>
>>3574547
So everyone but Shu falls back out of range of fear to tred and Shu stands looking the Monster in the Eye before pulling a magicans trick and leaving it trapped, momentarily disoriented and under heavy plasma based firepower within a pit of spinning blades.

This just sounds so.... evil..... I love it
>>
>>3574558
but she has yet to ask and answer the question: "Will it blend?"
>>
>>3574560
well, we're about to find out. if this works though, any biomass we absorbs gonna be liquid by the end of this.
>>
>>3574561
If this works we can drink smoothies until they come out of our ears
>>
>>3574552
Supporting this
>>
>>3574552
>When the Beast charges at her, have her activate Fear to Tread right before she teleports away, as to turn the hooks below her into a blender.
We should at least still turn the Rook into a Spiraling for purposes of enhancing the blender, even if you don't think it can deploy the Fear To Tread itself.
>>
>>3574586
fair point. im up for that sure.
>>
(Gentlemen, work has been comically busy so I shall post when I can. Thank you for your patience, and I hope you are having a good Friday.)
>>
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>>3574446

You take a moment to prepare, and then…chaos.

The treeline parts with terrible force as a colossal being emerges into the clearing, the sheer destruction left in its wake parting the dense canopy above and streaming light down upon where you stand in the open glen. It rears up, its segmented, bulbous form shining in the evening’s dim light as it glares past you with compound eyes at the top of its earthworm-like form. The rotting biomass and the hollow corpses lie half-obscured in the gloom behind you, and with a screech of rage it resumes its charge.

The tang of ozone tickles your tongue as your stomach drops, and suddenly you’re watching the behemoth collide with your reinforced Rook, and the trap is sprung as the ground beneath the beat gives way to a spiraling pit of death. Keane’s swarm latches onto the creature’s glossy skin, forcing it to cling to the barbed walls of the pit as your Rook dives, latching in to the sinking spiral and intensifying its effects. The beast lurches forwards, getting its head segment out of the pit just as the trees spear down at your Neuromantic command, lancing into the beast’s hide as a greying-brown slurry splashes out from the wounds its thrashing tears open along its side.

A brilliant flash precedes a bolt of scarlet lighting that erupts from the nearby treeline, Dorian’s aim searing a hole straight through the creature’s neck as it collapses to the ground, the grinding teeth making short work of its midsection. Your allies emerge from hiding, joining your side and on guard against any tricks the creature may have up its sleeve…

…yet none of you are prepared for what the beast brings to bear.

“DID…DID THE HATTER HIRE YOU?” The Amalgam croaks out, reduced to little more than a fifth of its previous existence as it leaks ichor all over the glen. “SHE’S…SHE’S A MONSTER. THE THINGS SHE DOES TO THE LITTLE ONES THAT WANDER IN HERE, I…I COULD NEVER CATCH…”

“Oh…” Jackie breathes in horror. “Oh fuck me, it’s a Daughter.”

“PLEASE…” The Unnatural Predator groans, every word, every cough sending more of its biomass streaming onto the ground around it as your whirling pit slows to a stop. “PLEASE, IF YOU HAVE ANY HEART AT ALL YOU’LL KILL THE HATTER IN MY STEAD…SHE CAN’T BE ALLOWED TO…TO…”

Oh God.

“…I…it was so hungry, I thought it was…I…” Amara stammers beside you, going silent for a moment before her chin begins to quiver. “I…I’m sorry, I d-didn’t mean to…”

As the Unnatural Predator slowly bleeds out before you, Amara drops to her knees and begins to wail inconsolably.

You…you have to do something.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
>>3574737
Is it dead?
>>
>>3574737
ah, fuck me. we got so used to everything killing us we forgot to think about whether other might have a reason for being on the offensive themselves.

Hey BHOP, is there any way to give it any Regen to stabilize it, or is it too far gone? Worms tend to have numerous hearts and can actually survive some pretty hefty damage provided one is still around.

regardless.
>Lean down, hug Amara.
>Go over to the Worm.
>"Im...im sorry. The Hatter...we killed her. we saw what she was doing and put an end to it."
>"Im sorry, im so so sorry, we jumped to conclusions, thought we were a threat, we had just fought the hatter, we were still thinking about dangers and nothing else..."
>Place a hand on the worm.
>"we didnt mean to hurt you if you meant us none, we thought you were coming after us, we....im so so sorry..."
>>
(The Daughter has made two Death Saving throw failures, but is still alive.)
>>
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>>3574737
WELL SHIT
>>
>>3574737
You know, I'm not going to take the blame for this. This worm-Daughter heard fighting from the Hatter's shack, charged in, took a moment to look at us (meaning it knew we weren't the Hatter) and then decided "yeah, I should attack these people anyway". If you hadn't paused to analyze the situation before deciding to attack anyway, then I'd feel guilty, but you did, so the blame is on you.

But...Amara will feel bad about this if we don't do anything to help. And Shu would too, even if she wouldn't blame herself. Wormy here seems like she wasn't a bad person, just a stupid one.

>>Shu, stabilize the Worm.
>>Ace, Keane, set up a health-sharing web. Give the Worm Shu and Dorian's regen.
>>Dorian, take off the Hydra's Heart and give it to the Worm.
>>Amara, cast GRA FOL THA. That might help with Death Saving Throws.
>>Quinn, see if you can do anything with blood clotting, maybe? I don't know.
>>
>>3574739
>>If it is a daughter can we stabilize her like we can with our own team do it otherwise

>>If we can not Save her
>>"Be at ease the Hatter is no more than a single piece of Rock left behind after being obliterated with fire and fury. What happened here "
>>Walk over to the Worm
>>"I am sorry we did this to you..... you startled us.... which is no excuse i know. we should have thought before brininge this upon you......... but rest at ease if there is anything left of the Hatter we will destroy her"

>>3574755
While i agree there is reason to be made at ourselves for causing this by not thinking enough I have to remind you:
The only thing amara picked up from her was hunger and a desire to feed
I think this is the last moments of clarity before death claims her like it did with Kosi and with Gina
>>
>>3574755
(Stabilization is possible, yes.)
>>
>>3574766
(I will say that at this range, it is obvious that the Daughter is relatively sane and has not succumbed to the Hunger. The reason for her hunger pangs will become clear with time, should she survive.)
>>
(Finally, voting shall remain open for the next two hours as I try and finish out the work day. Thank you for your patience, and take care.)
>>
>>3574760
yeah, no offense to the worm, but most things that look like her kinda attack Daughters on sight, and she came rolling in without a single word. we can both feel bad about this and know we didn't react poorly given the circumstances. shit happens in a warzone unfortunately, and the fleshscape is one big warzone.

ill support this to try and save the worm on top of my convo piece though, yeah.

>>3574766
well, yeah like i said we reacted rightly, that doesn't men we cant be sorry about it. we can still see if she will stay sane if we save her though, the issue with Kosi was she was dying regardless of the hunger or not, or if we had tried to do something.
>>
>>3574737
OH FUCK. FUCK FUCK FUCK.
Is it on death's door?

Can we save it? Can we stabilize it?
>Shu stabilizes the Worm.
>Lead Amara by the hand. Squeeze her hand in reassurance.
>"We killed the Hatter. This is what's left of her."
>Have a Swarmling carry the black gemstone to the Worm-Daughter, show it to her.
>"Hang on, We'll save you."
>Have Keane interlink everyone with HP and Bio regen and connect it with the Worm Daughter. Channel all bio-regen and hp regen towards the Worm.
>Have Amara redirect her clones towards Keane, Have Keane redistribute all hp and bio from Amara's Clones towards the Worm.
>Spend Half of our Biomass to attempt to stabilize it from Death's door.
>Have Dorian and Keane spawn Mucus-lings and Paintlings to staunch the bleeding.

>>3574766
What if we fed the Worm the Hatter's corpse? Consuming should stave off the hunger...for a time. And apparently Wormwood spent her entire life trying to track down and kill Hatter, even risking succumbing to Hunger just to kill the Hatter.
>>
>>3574776
as BHOP said it is both not fallen to the Hunger and can be stabilized
>>3574767
>>3574770
but it sounds like thi might get very complicated if we do save her. mind you i think we should try at least, but we should be prepared.

also didnt the Rat Body crumble too? all we have is the gemstone, which remind me of Wests crystal Isabelle cut in half.

...oh fuck me did we only kill one of the Hatters phylacteries? at least we know those still give levels i guess...
>>
>>3574775
>yeah, no offense to the worm, but most things that look like her kinda attack Daughters on sight, and she came rolling in without a single word. we can both feel bad about this and know we didn't react poorly given the circumstances. shit happens in a warzone unfortunately, and the fleshscape is one big warzone.
Exactly. We have a right to assume that a giant monster charging at us is an enemy. She doesn't get to pull the "I was actually a good guy!" bit after attacking us. Wormy would not be where she is right now if she didn't attack Shu.
>>
>>3574774
The Hatter's true body is dead right? Or is it a Phylactery? I just want to make sure that that is the case since her real body is apparently the Hat and not another Proxy-case.
>>
>>3574775
I agree with you this is a warzone and sometimes people get into the crossfire especially if they show up to a warzone and just charge whatever they see first. Result: they get guned down by soldiers with twitchy trigger Fingers

>>3574776

We should not give her the Gem after stabilizing her unless she starts slipping into the Hunger as i would like to get at least some level ups
This is purely pragmatic: Kill is kill no matter who we killed we should consume them to not let resources(that will become ever rarer the longer we play) go to waste on someone else taht will probably be fine without those resources

It might get complicated if the Hatter still has other bodies lying around where she can essentialy just respawn as i feel we have an obligation to hunt them down similar to what we are gonna have to do to West to keep her from fucking with our lives at every possible corner
>>
>>3574737
Supporting>>3574776
Try our best to stabilize and save her.
>>
>>3574790
>West has Proxies clones
>B'ni can spawn fully functioning Clones that have the potential to be as strong as her pre-nerf self if given time
>Hatter has proxies
Goddammit why does every single villain we have beef with a fucking Lich with Phylacteries?
>>
>>3574794
maybe, if we're lucky(HAH), the crystal is just the Hatters 'true self' condensed down to make true death harder, and not an actual phylactery.
>>
>>3574760
Going to add some dialogue in, too.

>"Ah shit."
>"Hey. Hey. It's okay. We're gonna patch you up. You'll pull through this."
>"Don't worry about the Hatter. We killed her body and blew up her hat. It's fine, don't think about that right now. Just focus on healing."
>"Stay talking to me, alright? It'll help you stay lucid. What's your name? I'm Shu."
>>
>>3574794
(Hatter does not have proxies, actually. It's actually a Hive Mistress power akin to >>3574800 's hypothesis. The Hatter is well and truly dead, and the crystal is her 'heart' as it were.)
>>
>>3574807
oh thank the old world for THAT.
right, well at least if this fails Worm Girl can rest easy. now we just have to worry about why she seemed hungry enough to trick Amara. swear if she tries to eat us after this...
>>
>>3574812
She better not try. We just demonstrated that we're quite capable of killing her in a single turn. Even if she is lying about being a good guy, I'd hope she's at least smart enough to not try to step to us twice.
>>
>>3574807
oh thank goodness. Rule of 3 would've solidified an unsettling trend.

>>3574812
I would ask

>>3574737
Amending my vote >>3574776
to include
>Hold Amara's hand, and attempt to comfort her, hold her close. This incident clearly weighs heavily on her young mind.
>>3574820
It also establishes how fucking Terrifying Shu can be when she sets up the battlefield to her advantage. Hive Mistresses are Masters of Battlefield Control, and Shu's got some fucking powerful tools at her disposal. Neuromantic Terraforming + Fear to Tread blender combo is brutal as fuck.
>>
>>3574807
Well at least we wont have to worry aabout her coming back to haunt us outside of our dreams if we consume her...... We do have the one thing, we got from Mara, to see what kind of stuff the Hatter has on us?

>>3574760
btw. Do not give a random daughter a relic of ours out of pity if she is gonna survive this she will make it on her own. I do not now how much Bio she has but i would guess she has at least a bit of reserves which could lead to very rapid regeneration and we might not get the relic back afterwards without killing her again.


As i stated before this might just be the Lucidity before Death talking out of her and she will go back to being insanely hungry once she recoveres
>>
>>3574824
oh, i totally missed that, yeah lets not hand off our relics to random daughters, im not for that at all.
>>
>>3574824
>As i stated before this might just be the Lucidity before Death talking out of her and she will go back to being insanely hungry once she recoveres
BHOP confirmed that it wasn't, and that it was something else making her read as super-hungry to Amara. >>3574767

But fine, I can understand if you want to be cautious. Dorian can still effectively give her the effects of the Hydra's Heart thanks to the health-web Ace and Keane are going to weave.
>>
>>3574760
>Dorian, take off the Hydra's Heart and give it to the Worm.
I Veto this idea.
>>3574824
You know... the Lucidity on Death's Door has got me thinking about the mechanics behind it and reminds me of Darkest Dungeon's Flagellant Character whose kit explicitly revolves around him getting buffs while on Death's Door. And there was a time where the Flagellent had 100% Death's Door Resistance which effectively rendered him Immortal (unfortunately it was patched out).

So why not abuse the state of Lucidity with a Relic? Being on Death's door has clearly given daughters (Gina, Kosi, etc.) exceptional clarity and perception to the world of the Crucible. I'll need some time to design it of course...
>>
>>3574833
Hmmm.... yeah i missed that, you are right

>>3574823

Comforting Amara has my Vote though we just showed the absolut ruthelesness of Shu when it comes to protecting her Family while in her Combatform (I think we can call it that since we pretty much show of a completely different mindset while in a fight)

We probably scared not only Amara but everyone else there. that the kind, gentle and level headed Shu is capable of such carnage probably came as a complete suprise to everyone.
Hell it surprised me how powerful and terrifying that move was when i read how it affected the daughter
>>
>>3574737
>>3574776
>Also amending my vote to Take off the Chitinous Stalwart Armor (at least the helm) in order to make Shu more approachable to Amara.
>>
>>3574873
They've seen Shu in combat before, witnessed how she is capable of quickly coming up with brutally effective tactics. The only real difference this time is that the enemy tried to become sympathetic after we started killing it, which is a bit of a first. No one's ever tried to surrender, the party has never dealt with an enemy they could talk down. Which isn't exactly what we's happening here, but similar. Wormy wants us to see her as a person and not just a threat, but after attacking us, and that's going to make for some weird contrast.

>>3574882
Yeah, that's a good idea. Should help both in comforting Amara and Wormy.
>>
BHOP Do we we have the ARBITER’S APPETITE with us?

>>3574776
Supporting this with the Amendments made by this Anon in this post>>3574882
>>
>>3574922
(Always, unless you leave it behind.)
>>
>>3574929
On the one hand, Dorian could do with Hatter's Core skill to raise his stats a bit. On the other, do we want him to have to deal with her being in his head?
>>
>>3574971
We don't even know the ratty bitch. All she did was laugh at Shu's face and attempted to flee.
>>
>>3574971
Well she is a Hive Mistress and if we can get more than one level out of her "Core" we can at least take a look as i want to raise the Neurotic Halo on Shu soon. having another Core Class of Hive Mistress for Shu might be interesting to see the possible synergies(Giant rats riding on Knightlings equipped with the finest Amrs and Armor of Calcite we can Forge ) i am still certain it would not fit in Shus theme and we already have quite a lot of Skills that need expanding upon

Maybe the descision is irrelevant if we choose to give the Hatter to our intensive Care Patient(after having a conversation with her of couse)
>>
>>3574983
We know that she's a cannibal for fun rather than just the need to sate the Hunger, and that her preferred prey is young children. She's a monster.

>>3574985
Giving it to Shu is also an option, could make for some interesting synergies. Especially if we hybridized them, what sort of monsters would that produce? But as you say, Shu already has a ton of skills to level.
>>
>>3574988
>>3574985
I'm fine with the skillset we have now. Adding Rats to the Bees just mucks up our Gurren Lagaan Beedrill theme we've been building up.
>>
>>3574988
>>We know that she's a cannibal for fun rather than just the need to sate the Hunger, and that her preferred prey is young children. She's a monster.

She might have truly been insane even before all of this started or was turned insane by the Crucible as it remade her due to a Condition prior to the Crucible

I was mostly thinking to see with the APPETITE what we could get out of it and if any of the options are any good divide them maybe giving her Core to Shu but only if it is extremely good

>>3574993

I do not want to sacrifice our "We shall pierce the Cord and Mother with our Firends" thing we have going on as i respect Gurren Lagaan to much to see it be destroyed after fighting tooth and nail to get that Skillset on Shu

Mostly i just want to get a couple Level Up points or maybe a passive that could increase the Amount of Constructs we can summon
>>
>>3574971
honestly no one needs new abilities, everyone has more than is optimal in my opinion. focus on what we have, in my opinion.
>>
>>3575010
I'm not looking to give Dorian new powers, but eating a Core with Arbiter's Appetite would raise his Health by 200%. Given that he's a bit of a glass cannon (albeit a fast-repairing one), that's not a bad use of a level. Refine it on the Sparagmos Engine since we don't want the actual power and it raises to 400% Health increase. I think +400% max Health is worth not putting that single level in another skill.
>>
>>3575016
maybe. honestly im more worried about his and Amaras Bio. his two new Abilities also both focus on what he is lacking, so stat wise he has what he really needs actually to get his stats less...weird.

Amara however im no so sure, as many didnt want to keep Cannon long term, as despite it helping us this time more often than not its not something she will really utilize much at all.
>>
>>3575025
It would raise Bio by the same amount. +400% Health and +400% Bio, for a single level investment. That's pretty good.

We definitely can't put the Hatter's Core in Amara, though. Her dreamscape is almost entirely composed of children, you don't put the pedophage in there.
>>
>>3575029

For the sake of Amara and Dorian, I don't think we should consume Hatter. Dorian has Parental issues stemming from his Mother and Father and Hatter is an abusive parent.
As for Amara see >>3575025.
If we're going to consume, we need to find dream daughters that best fit the characters they will be rooming with. Otherwise, we should leave it alone. If anything WormWoman here deserves to consume Hatter since she staked her entire Crucible-Career on killing the Ratty bitch.
>>
>>3575029
where did 200% come from anyways? im not seeing any reason to have confirmation on what stats we actually would get.

regardless, honestly not letting Hater survive as a dream daughter is a good enough reason to not give anyone her core in my opinion. stats or not, its not worth her surviving in any form. we can afford not taking a core once to let someone like her cease to exist.
>>
>>3574737

"Hey. Hey, it's okay.” You say, your helmet sliding off and taking flight as you stride to the Daughter’s side. “We're gonna patch you up. You'll pull through this."

“THE HATTER.” The colossal worm pleads, desperation lancing across the empathic channel as you reach out with your field. “I’M BEGGING YOU, SHE HAS TO…”

"Don't worry about the Hatter, alright? We killed her, and this is what’s left.” You reassure, your Plateling returning and depositing the wretch’s core in your armored hand. “Just work on healing yourself.”

Her breathing shudders as your field floods with relief, one or two of her eyes going dull grey.

"Stay talking to me, alright? What's your name? I'm Shu." You press, trying to keep her focused. You can feel her fighting, tooth and nail…not merely to survive, but to keep her hunger at bay.

“SHU…I’M LARA.” She replies, gaze shifting to Amara as she walks up beside you, tears still streaming down her cheeks as the Midnight Crew leaps to action. “…PLEASE DON’T CRY…IT MAY BE SELFISH, BUT I’D HATE FOR A LITTLE ANGEL LIKE YOU TO CRY FOR SOMETHING LIKE ME.”

“I’m…I’m so…sorr…I…” Amara stutters, barely able to form words through her tears.

“OH, THIS IS MY DOING SWEETIE...PLEASE DON’T CRY. I…I OVERREACTED…I THOUGHT IN RESTING THAT I’D FAILED SO MANY OTHERS. I’M SO SORRY I LASHED OUT AT YOUR FAMILY." She says earnestly before glancing towards you. "THEY DIDN'T DESERVE THAT."

You reach out to hold Amara’s hand but she’s took fast, rushing forwards and throwing her arms around the Daughter’s massive face as your ward’s clones dissolve, used to fuel Lara’s healing…and after a few long, tense moments…

>>THE CHESHIRE LARVA: STABILIZED

Several minutes later you’ve finished burying the hollow bodies you found in the ruins a good distance away as Lara sleeps, her breathing slow but steady. The Crew’s keeping a close vigil, and Dorian’s pacing around the ruins to walk off his surprisingly persistent anger that you still feel emanating from his armor, even now. November’s cleaning her armaments in stoic silence and Amara hasn’t left Lara’s side or spoken a word since the latter stabilized, despite your and Keane’s best efforts.

You seal the graves with a twist of the spiral and a splash of acid to fuse it all together, and with that you turn to your allies, weighing how to proceed from here, through these accursed woods.

>>CONSUME the core of the Hatter of Hamelin [LEVEL UP POINTS AVAILABLE: 16]

>>Sit down with Amara and discuss what happened…she just went through a lot.

>>Touch base with Dorian. This level of anger is something else entirely.

>>Jack in to Lara, see if you can talk to her mentally while she rests.

>>Tap into one of the trees as you wait for Lara to awaken.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
>>3575036
It's twice the starting stats of their core class. Hive Mistress starts with 100% in each.

And yeah, I get not wanting to let Hatter survive in any form. But I don't know if it's possible to do that while consuming a Daughter. I think that eating the Core just gives priority for who among a shared meal gets them, someone winds up with the Daughter in their head so long as they're still intact as a conscious being. Like, we didn't get any of the Conglomerate's Daughters, but everyone else we've eaten is in someone.

>>3575042
>>Touch base with Dorian. This level of anger is something else entirely.
Dorian, you alright?
>>
>>3575042
>>Sit down with Amara and discuss what happened…she just went through a lot.
>>Touch base with Dorian. This level of anger is something else entirely.

If we have a moment to rest, then we need to talk with our allies. The Hatter's Core can wait.
>>
>>3575042
>>Sit down with Amara and discuss what happened…she just went through a lot.
then
>>Touch base with Dorian. This level of anger is something else entirely.

we can Consume after we make sure our family is ok. Amara gets first dibs as terrified saddness and her age make her issues more immediate to need to be dealt with.
>>
>>3575052
>And yeah, I get not wanting to let Hatter survive in any form. But I don't know if it's possible to do that while consuming a Daughter. I think that eating the Core just gives priority for who among a shared meal gets them, someone winds up with the Daughter in their head so long as they're still intact as a conscious being. Like, we didn't get any of the Conglomerate's Daughters, but everyone else we've eaten is in someone.

im...not sure on that. you might be right, but i feel like we have missed out on daughters before, but im really not sure. wait, oh, i know what it is, if you pick the CONSUME option they survive. so my vote is simply to have no one pick the CONSUME option during level up, which is already what i wanted anyways.
>>
>>3575042
>CONSUME the core of the Hatter of Hamelin [LEVEL UP POINTS AVAILABLE: 16]
There are seven of use (well eight but November isn't consuming anything), so that's two to each of the crew, three to Shu to either hybridize the Leash and Neuromancer or level up other abilities, and three for either Amara or Dorian with the other getting two.
>Touch base with Dorian. This level of anger is something else entirely.
I think it's been a while since we did that, and he doesn't have his own dream daughters to talk to.
>>
>>3575069
I don't know if that was ever actually confirmed. I know it's the theory but I'm not sure it's true.
>>
>>3575042
BHOP (Will the hatter end up in someones head if we consume her even if no one takes her Core?)

>>Touch Base with Amara and talk with her abaout what happened
>>"Listen Sweet Pea I know what just happened must have really stung. But it is not your fault. We all over reacted after seeing what the hatter had done i could only think about removing any such threats from your vicinity. I was not thinking straight. Rest assured i will not hold you responsible for this"
>>Pull her into a hug she needs some release

We should touch base with Amara first, she is probably a bit traumatized and beating herself up that she did not notice sooner which could have avoided this whole debakel

We do not want her to become depressed and more succeptible to the Hunger

>>After calming Amara down a bit touch base with Dorian

>>"How are you holding up? Did the Hatter touch something in you that you want to talk to me about?"
>>Extend a Jack in his direction "Want to talk where no one else can here us and where you can let off some steam?"

Dorian is not Acting rationally or like a gentelman like he usually does, we should probably also have him reactivate his Neuromancy powers and not lock himself in anymore
>>
>>3575081
I mean, we didn't consume Johanna's core and she ended up in our head.
>>
>>3575086
pretty sure we still Consumed an ability from her though.
>>
>>3575081
>>3575086
Rephrasing my Question BHOP
Will she be lost if we use her only for improving existing abilitis and not consume anything from her Skill Pallet?
>>
>>3575042
Dorian and Amara need the most attention.
Dorian's got Parental issues and seeing Hatter abuse braindead children has brought up an anger he long harbored against his father.

Amara's traumatized at what she perceives to be a mistake. A near death that was caused by her lack of perception.

When it comes time to consume Hatter's Corpse I think we should feed some levels to Lara. She'll need it to keep the hunger in check temporarily. I'm willing to have Shu relinquish her share in order to feed Lara.

FIRST
>Touch base with Dorian. This level of anger is something else entirely.
He has no dream daughter to converse with and no one to vent his anger.
>Walk with Dorian, Accompany him on his laps around the house.
>"Care to open up your halo for a private conversation? It will be 100% private. I won't tell Julia about this, I promise."
>Hold up a Jack and offer it to him as a way to ensure a private connection.
>[How bad is it? What did you see in Hatter that's makes you angry despite her death?]
Then
>Sit down with Amara and discuss what happened…she just went through a lot.
>Offer to let her sit on your lap.
>"Are you okay?"
>"I'm not mad, despite the angry girl inside of me Amara. I want to help you."
>>
>>3575096
(If you do not take any of her abilities, then there is a 0% chance that she will end up as a Dream Daughter and will instead be lost forever.)
>>
(Voting shall remain open for the next one and a half hours, Gentlemen. )
>>
>>3575143
Fine by me. We've got some skills to raise anyway.
>>
>>3575143
well, so i was right. im fine with skipping over Consuming once to make sure a truly vile creature is gone forever.
>>
>>3575143
Good to know

Since i have to head out now i will vote

>>3575123
Supporting this

I leave the Voting over Stat distribution to you guys have a great time

>>3575076
This seemed pretty fair to me to divide it all, if the Midnight crew is okay with it of course
>>
>>3575155
>>3575076
while she hasn't fallen to the hunger yet, we could give Lara the extra point to help hold it back more. she seems to need something at least, and Shu can afford taking less points anyways.
>>
>>3575148
>>3575169
I think for this feast when consuming Hatter, Shu should sit this one out and let Lara the Worm have a share of the level-up pool Lara's been fighting the Hunger badly. Dorian and Amara are in dire need of stats anyways and November can't consume. So 16 points shared among seven Daughters.

Points to distribute: 16
Participants of the feast: 7

Lara: 2
Amara: 3
Dorian: 3
Jackie: 2
Keane: 2
Ace: 2
Quinn: 2

Non-participants:
Shu (Giving up her share to let Dorian and Amara cope as well as making sure Lara sates her Hunger)
November (Can't consume due to physiology)

Any disagreements to this distribution spread?
>>
>>3575169
Yeah, we could save a section of the Hat-Crystal until after Lara wakes up. So two for everyone but November and Amara, who get none and three?
>>
>>3575174
im not sure Lara really needs 2. but then again we have no idea how stemming the hunger works.

>>3575147
while im not asking for an exact amount of time, would giving Lara just 1 point be good enough to help with how close to the hunger she seems to be, or would it not be enough to make a good enough difference?
>>
>>3575182
(It would certainly help, yes. She's been without food for some time, now.)
>>
>>3575186
Not even Amalgams? I'd expect there to be more in here. Maybe she over-hunted, staying in one place to fight against Hatter.
>>
>>3575192
(That is precisely what happened, yes.)
>>
>>3575186
hrm.....

>>3575174
Shu: 1
Amara: 3
Dorian: 3
Jackie: 2
Keane: 2
Ace: 2
Quinn: 2

Lara: 1

would be my vote. though kinda feel like giving Dorian an even spread so he can put 2 into each of his new Abilities would be good, but not worth someone else suffering and both he and Amara could use equal amounts. i guess Shu could afford to skip out once, but as much as Lara seems like a swell worm im still hesitant to give more than necessary to a stranger we hardly know and may never see again. theres a line between being nice and helpful, and being generous to a fault.

Shame though, while i dont dislike Amaras kit, Stat wise its a bit skewed, especially with Cannon not being the best suited to keep on her besides thematic reasons.
>>
>>3575195
Well, at least she can move on to greener pastures now. Maybe head east towards the river, should be plenty of good eating there.
>>
>>3575182
Do you think we should give Lara 4 points instead of 2? She did imply that she spent so long trying to Catch the Rat in the Hat. 4 points would beat back her hunger even farther back. It would make a big difference for Worm girl. Also, the reason why Amara and Dorian get 1 point apiece is due to their current mood as of right now. It'll be enough for a good power and stat boost for now.

Change the spread so it looks like this:

Lara: 4
Amara: 2
Dorian: 2
Jackie: 2
Ace: 2
Keane: 2
Quinn: 2
Total points spent: 16

November
and Shu are skipping out of this feast.
>>3575204
Giving Lara 1 point feels so petty. At least give her two or four points. Since she stayed and prowled the forest while hunting the Hatter, I think we can give her 4 points in exchange for information on a more detailed map of Carroll's Forest and we've been running blindly despite our advanced sensory equipment.
>>
>>3575214
I say just split it evenly among everyone here who eats. Two each.
>>
>>3575214
im not giving her 4 points. thats outright ridiculous. thats generosity to stupid levels outright hindering us. we cant help anyone if we never help ourselves. she also attacked us, honest mistake or not we could've rightfully let her die and had solid, understandable reasoning to do so. we instead forgave her and saved her life. thats more than we had to give already.
>>
>>3575221
i still dont think she needs two but if it'll get us to a compromise i can support an even spread, if it'll get everyone to agree on it.
>>
>>3575222
Give Lara 3 points in exchange for Shu's 1 point, but she gives us information of detailed locations in Carroll's Forest so we can speed up our search for the Armory (aka Waypoints or Locations of Note, or even the Armory location.) How about that?
>>
>>3575242
we already have the armories location, and its on the other side of the forest.

my limit is two, and really only in a situation like mentioned here
>>3575221
>>3575222
>>
>>3575242
to clarify, im not giving a stranger, no matter the circumstances, more than we are giving any of our own people for sure.
>>
(Gentlemen, work conspires against me. Thus, I am extending the voting until this time tomorrow morning, and posting shall resume shortly thereafter. I hope you have a great evening and rest well, one and all.)
>>
>>3575361
oof, well, work is work, you do what you need to do BHOP. hope you at least find some time to relax and sleep!
>>
>>3575361
I'm sorry to hear that, BHOP. Always sucks when you get a sudden extra work load on a Friday. I hope it's not too hard on you, though.
>>
>>3575042
Supporting >>3575123
and when we CONSUME I agree with this >>3575234 so voting for an even spread.

>>3575069
I also don't want the Hatter in anyone's head and certainly nobody needs more levelable abilities, but the CONSUME option also includes static abilities and augmentations. We should at least have a look at what is available. If necessary, Lara could consume the Hatter's Core - living in her archenemy's head might even be worse than death.
>>
>>3575460
if we take any ability, even augments or statics, theres a chance the Hatter ends up in our head, so not worth it.

and i dont think Lara would want that nor want her to have to have the Hatter stick around. let the bastard be lost, for good, guaranteed. though its not our choice i suppose so if she really wants that...its on her., though id prefer to convince her to let him die fully, though not sure we even need to convince her of that id imagine.
>>
>>3575460
>>3575470
I don't think Lara nor anyone should go for the Consume option here anon. As Lara stated, Hatter is a Monster. And even then Dream Daughters can pull unexpected moments of agency that overrides the host daughter's will (i.e. Sam, Kosi, Niku). Absolutely no one will benefit from having Hatter as a dream daughter.

So this brings to the point I'm going to make for everyone to think about. If we're going to consume an ability, not only do we have to take into account of our stats and existing abilities, we also have to take into account of what kind of Daughter we're inviting into our Characters' Dreamscape.

Dorian won't benefit from having Hatter inside him, Amara will not benefit from having Hatter inside her, Lara won't benefit from having hatter inside her, Shu won't benefit from having hatter inside her.
>>
>>3575470
So what abilities do we want to level? Only three of us to discuss, this time, with the Crew's character building being in BHOP's hands and November not eating. I'm thinking a level each in Accumulated Charge and Spring-Heeled Jack for Dorian, a level in Queen Crimson and Hollowed Lexicon for Amara, and a level in Exsanguinating Leash and Hundred-Handed for Shu. More speed and lightning for Dorian, better point defenses and more spellcraft for Amara, and getting Shu's skills to the point we can start hybridizing them.
>>
>>3575475
agreed, and you make a very valid point about who we let tag along with us. on that note, thinking back on it, through luck or something else, the only one at the time we have had tag along with us i might've used this logic to turn down is the girls who was using the corrupted engine, Johanna. but we got lucky and even she admits she was going too far with what she was doing in there.

still though, can you imagine if she wasn't repentant? on top of basically being a god-complex bully in our head, with how dream daughters work, while it would still probably have to be much more than just this, it still means just seeing or hearing about an engine would potentially bring her closer to being able to pull something. would not be a fun time, as we know a vulnerable emotional state, even an unrelated one, an give a dream daughter an opening. imagine every time we go back to Maras home after a traumatic event to rest, and look at the engine, and have to worry about if Shus been though enough to give her an opening. ill admit im probably highly over blowing a dream daughters potency in control by alot, its just the best example i can think of of a time we may of almost made a mistake here.

im also just rambling my thoughts a bit, so i apologize for that.

>>3575485
ive already got my list ready, so i guess no harm in posting it;

Shu: 2 points
>HUNDRED HANDED
>EXSANGUINATING LEASH

Amara: 2 points
>JOYOUS MANY
>QUEEN CRIMSON

Dorian: 2 points
>SPRING HEELED JACK
>ACCUMULATED CHARGE

Jackie: 2 points
Keane: 2 points
Ace: 2 points
Quinn: 2 points
Lara: 2 points


i think the only thing we disagree on is Amara, in which i really like Joyous and want to see more of it. her Core isnt bad mind you, but its real utility doesn't increase from Level ups, and overall what its given us hasn't been useless, but highly sporadic, so i think its less of a necessity to level up than most Cores. not saying we never do, only we can do it later.
>>
>>3575508
>i think the only thing we disagree on is Amara, in which i really like Joyous and want to see more of it. her Core isnt bad mind you, but its real utility doesn't increase from Level ups, and overall what its given us hasn't been useless, but highly sporadic, so i think its less of a necessity to level up than most Cores. not saying we never do, only we can do it later.
I can see that logic, and it influenced my vote back when we were doing the big post-Spiraling Fear level-up. But we have been told that Skintalkers are very powerful at high levels, so I don't want to neglect it too much. A lot of Skintalking's utility comes from acquiring new words, but there probably are some strong bonuses to be had, too. More words made free to cast, better chances of finding new ones, increased sensory range, maybe something with controlling Amalgams...lots of good uses I can see for it.
>>
>>3575143
How possible is it to erase a Dream Daughter once created?

>>3575470
>>3575475
You're right, the more I think about it the more unlikely it seems that Lara would want that. I'd still like to see what's available out of curiosity but it's highly doubtful there could be anything approaching good enough to warrant getting the Hatter in someone's head.

>>3575485
These suggestions though Red Death, Joyous Many and basically any of Shu's abilities would also be worth levelling
>>
>>3575485
>>3575508
So big thing that I want to have all characters put a point in (except Amara due to her circumstances): Neurotic Halo.
If you noticed Amara's Character sheet, Her Neurotic Halo ability actually diverged from the usual path from level three onwards.

>Shu:
I'm more about getting Neurotic Halo up to speed. It's lvl three right now, and putting a level into it might reveal a divergence from the usual Neurotic Halo path that goes into a Hive Mistress Specialized route. Since Gina's Halo Route emphasized Phantasmal Conduit Augments.
As for the second point, I'm going to have her upgrade Hundred Handed.
>Dorian:
Dorian's Neurotic halo is at level 2 right now, and if we get it to level three, we might see a huge Divergence point from the usual Neuromancy path that Shu and Gina are currently on with their Neurotic Halos. That's my hardline. At least 1 point into Neurotic Halo for Dorian.
As for his other ability, I'm good with leveling up either Spring heeled Jack or Accumulated Charge, albeit getting Spring Heeled Jack upgraded will make getting Charge Stacks easier.

>Amara:
Queen Crimson, no disagreement on that.
However I will argue on putting a point into Sternutation Cannon. It modestly improves Amara's Bio pool which is a huge increase now that we have Arbiter's Appetite while giving her a more powerful secondary ability.

>>3575526
I don't think we'd be so callous and cruel as to do that. Besides, if we are forced to erase a dream daughter, then we have made a mistake in the first place.
>>
>>3575526
(It is incredibly difficult to do so. A high-level Phantasmal Conduit has a decent chance of exorcising them, however.)

>>3575526
(I will throw out that the only abilities she has that wouldn't be redundant with your current skillsets would be her Core power [which would guarantee she would become a Dream Daughter] and a high-tier augmentation she grabbed with passively boosts a Hive Mistress' swarmling cap by 50%, which works in tandem with other active and passive boosts to the cap. If you would like a full list for your perusal I can throw together some flavor text and the like, however.)
>>
>>3575536
>A passive aug that boosts swarmling cap by 50%... in exchange of having a chance for having Hatter shack up inside your head
...yeah....nope. I ain't touching that augment. We can boost it via other means and we're happy with what we have right now.
>>
>>3575534
>If you noticed Amara's Character sheet, Her Neurotic Halo ability actually diverged from the usual path from level three onwards.
Actually, only her level three ability is different, better vision instead of the paralysis ability Shu and Gina have. Still, more Neurotic Halo on Shu might be useful anyway. Lara is a pretty good demonstration that we're going to have to stop assuming every big stompy thing is an automatic enemy. I still think it's largely her fault for acting clearly aggressive, but we did expect a combat and prepared as such. Lara's corruption came from being an Unnatural Predator, but as we get closer to the Cord and interact with more high-level Daughters, we're going to meet more and more people who look like scary monsters but are really people. We need a better way to distinguish between them, and getting Neurotic Halo to level five will help. Raise Trypophilic Hive, too, enhance the empathic sense if we can.

>>3575536
>I will throw out that the only abilities she has that wouldn't be redundant with your current skillsets would be her Core power [which would guarantee she would become a Dream Daughter] and a high-tier augmentation she grabbed with passively boosts a Hive Mistress' swarmling cap by 50%, which works in tandem with other active and passive boosts to the cap.
The augment sounds good, but I'm willing to sacrifice a little utility to avoid picking her up. Our cap's getting pretty high as we level up, and we tend to go for quality over quantity anyway. Pass.
>>
>>3575524
i see your point, but i still feel like at the moment Joyous could give us more of what we need. but Lexicon is my secondary choice, so we'll see.

>>3575526
>>3575536
yeah...lets just skip out on consuming this time around.

>>3575534
i dont think the Halo is worth neglecting other abilities. Dorian NEEDS the stat boosts from his two new abilities, you are NOT changing my mind on that for him. his regen is good but long term we have seen you can easily spend or lose over 100% Health and Bio in a turn in more hard core fights.

i dont want Cannon on Amara. i still think its best if we get rid of it to focus on other abilities. we can find her a more suitable Bio ability later.

for Shu Handed and Leash are both super potent, but i guess i could move the Leash point to Halo for her.
>>
>>3575534
>>3575560
>If you noticed Amara's Character sheet, Her Neurotic Halo ability actually diverged from the usual path from level three onwards.
i dunno how many times ive pointed out BHOP has said the Halos start to alter and adapt themselves to the user around level 4 or so.
>>
>>3575536
Thanks. I am curious but a full list seems like a lot of effort for something we aren't really going to use. Appreciate the offer though!

>>3575534
Why would it be callous and cruel to delete someone like the Hatter? I had been thinking that Shu could handle Hatter as a dream daughter temporarily, if there was something ridiculously powerful up for grabs. More as a hypothetical than a serious consideration.

>>3575543
To play devil's advocate: it is a really good augment, there'd be a decent chance of not getting the Hatter anyway and it would go on Shu (risking the Hatter being in Dorian or Amara's heads would be nasty, but I don't think she could really do much to hurt Shu and a scene where we talk with her would be pretty cool even if she is just as awful outside the fleshscape (chatting with fallen enemies is one of the best parts of the quest))
>>
>>3575579
And I don't want another nasty dream daughter to go with Sam. You saw how hatter reacted. She LAUGHED in our face.

And while I understand your logic, there are lines we dare not cross nor dare to tempt fate for consuming that augment.
>>
>>3575579
Honestly? We really don't need more swarmling slots, nor more than we will get from her core anyways. We can already run out her bio to its last drop easily filling it out with our current options, and even run into situations we really dont really need anything more, to the point of using basics for the sake of it. Its not a bad augment, but not one we desperately need or can't easily live without.
>>
>>3575579
>Why would it be callous and cruel to delete someone like the Hatter?
Killing someone in the heat of battle is one thing. Carrying them around in your head so that you can hunt down a means of executing them is rather more cold.
>>
>>3575594
(I don't intend to vote for the augment, just discussing for fun.)
This doesn't necessarily detract from how evil the Hatter is/was but she didn't seem entirely sane. Is it possible that Dream Hatter could actually be borderline pleasant?

>>3575611
Good point, since Hive level 10 we have plenty to spend Bio on without maxing our capacity. The augment is much better for swarm-specialised Hive Mistresses (and queen-specialised ones I suppose).

We should probably have a word with the Midnight Crew to make sure they don't get rats; it's unlikely but possible that one of them would risk consuming the Core or the augment. Though it's ultimately their decision to take the risk or not.
>>
>>3575627
>We should probably have a word with the Midnight Crew to make sure they don't get rats; it's unlikely but possible that one of them would risk consuming the Core or the augment. Though it's ultimately their decision to take the risk or not.
Im up for it but their reactions made it seem like they agree with us she should not be given the kindness of further existance.
>>
>>3575627
>>3575633
(The Crew are going to be doing what you are, and taking an options but CONSUME.)
>>
>>3575627
>This doesn't necessarily detract from how evil the Hatter is/was but she didn't seem entirely sane. Is it possible that Dream Hatter could actually be borderline pleasant?
Possibly. But from what we've seen, Hunger-mad Daughters seem to still be mostly themselves, unless they've gone completely feral. Twisted and made crueler, but still believing in largely what they always did. So what starting point leads to "eating children's brains and puppeteering their husks to play tea party"? Probably not a good one.
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>>3575639
Well good to hear, glad how reliable they have turned out to be, morally and combatantly.
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>>3575642
It doesn't have to just be the Hunger - the Forest seems to affect people too. Freed from both, Dream Hatter might be horrified at what she has done. But yes, most likely her starting point was also unhinged in a creepy-ass way.
>>
>>3575653
>>3575642
If you re-read the text and observe the context You might find out the pathology behind the madness.
>Hatter plays out tea time with her victims after using Neuromancy to lobotomize them.
>Her core is a Hive Mistress (swarm route).
>Daughters with Hive Mistress Cores usually have a control complex.
>When one of her puppets acts out of line (due to cognitive clumsiness), Hatter throws a temper tantrum.
>"eating their brains" part was played as a "punishment" for Hatter's Twisted Tea Time, using Neuromancy to augment her hold on her victims.

My observations is that Hatter has a pathology complex that revolved around being a rat, symbolizing how her pre-crucible life has forced her to adopt a stay out of sight mentality while being relatively powerless. She may have been born into poverty. Mother gives her a power that allows her to have control over her environment. And what more fitting way to take control is with a Hive Mistress/Neuromancy combination? Gluttonous and Unnatural Predator traits were tertiary abilities to go with her Dirty Rat theme.

And also, Hunger-mad daughters automatically head west towards the Cord.

Hatter doesn't seem to be hunger-mad. In fact, her behavior suggests that she's relatively sane for a daughter. Hatter actually stayed put and likely lured in children as her prey while playing a game of cat and mouse with Lara out of sadism and to watch Lara slowly succumb to her hunger. Her actions when confronted with us seem to be the following:
>If alone with a girl like Amara, try to lure her prey in and go for an optimal ambush attack so that she can lobotomize.
>If confronted with a girl like Shu, attempt to get a rise out of us and goad us to pursue her while using her rats as a cover while she escapes
>If outnumbered and outgunned, flee and attempt to take a hostage with her via unwilling host with her Neuromancy hat.
>>
>>3575639
hey, so how much does the Uzis standard ammunition cost? and i guess for both it and the Contender, what kinda limitations do we have for crafting customized rounds, both at and away from a Forge? id assume at a forge theres a limit or quality based off the Forges Tier, but on the road id imagine its much different.
>>
>>3575721
>My observations is that Hatter has a pathology complex that revolved around being a rat, symbolizing how her pre-crucible life has forced her to adopt a stay out of sight mentality while being relatively powerless. She may have been born into poverty. Mother gives her a power that allows her to have control over her environment. And what more fitting way to take control is with a Hive Mistress/Neuromancy combination?
Maybe. But where do the child victims and tea party play come in? That's too specific to just be about asserting control over her environment. Working out some long-standing trauma she never got over? It's a bit of a leap in awfulness, but that sort of sinister attempt at play says child predator to me. Maybe not sexual (God, I hope not), but some sort of pathology where her maturity is emotionally stunted and she wound up kidnapping children to "play" with them. And then they wind up trying to leave, and she kills them so they can't. The rat theme could then be hiding away what she does, and to play on the "Pied Piper" theme (and her full title was "Hatter of Hamelin", the town the Pied Piper story is set in) to represent that stranger danger.

Or maybe she just inhaled a bunch of mercury fumes. She is a hatter, after all. That's why we say "mad as a hatter", they'd use mercury to treat felt fibers and it would drive them insane.
>>
>>3575781
(I don't have my notes available at the moment, but please remind me once I wrap up the Vein, as I'd like to address that.)
>>
>>3575808
will do.
>>
>>3575788
Now that you bring attention to these themes,
The Rat theme is a culmination of her corruption. "The Mad Hatter" bit is a tip-off to where Hatter's true body lies: The Hat.
And Hamelin is a nod to how Hatter operates as a reference to the Pied Piper as well as the Mad hatter of Alice in Wonderland. Hosting tea parties.
>>
>>3575819
so we have seen the caterpillar and the Hatter. wheres the Red/Mad Queen though?
>>
>>3575893
The Armory. The only place fitting for a Queen to claim lordship over a place of worth in this gods dammed forest.
>>
>>3575903
you mean the Armory thats not in the forest?
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>>3575909
...wait. Is the Armory east of the forest or west of the forest?
>>
>>3575917
no idea. but its on the other side of it so at least semi-west? though actually how far on the other said we were never told, only that cutting through the forest was the fastest route, and we also knew going through the forest would get us closer to the cord, hence me thinking at least partially west.

its not in the forest though. only place so far we have not explored that Amara pointed out is the other empty house, but its possible her saying 'no one is home right now' could mean someones does actually live there, so my guess is the Queen live there. or she could simply be far enough in we haven't gotten to her yet.
>>
>>3575917
West. We started east, we're passing through the forest to get to the other side, where the Armory is.
>>
>>3575936
Or it might be the March Hare. He was supposed to live in a house near to the Mad Hatter's.
>>
>>3575943
true. i guess i overlooked him as we already have a rabbit themed fucko.
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>>3575946
B'Ni can be the White Rabbit.
>>
You know something I just noticed? Lara's title is "Cheshire Larva". What if leveling up her Unnatural Predator skill makes her pupate? I hope we get a Mothra out of this.
>>
>>3576032
Unfortunately she's a VERY HUNGRY CATEPILLAR. If we are going to help her get through her HUNGRY CATEPILLAR and "Useless" metapod phase, then we will need to feed her a LOT of Level ups. which is something a certain anon certainly abhors when it comes to level distribution.
>>
>>3576032
id be very ok with that. she probably has to literally cocoon herself though, which sounds dangerous as all hell in the fleshscape.

>>3576041
its because shes not a teammate nor someone we know will stick around. she can get more of a share when we know more about her, shes actually earned it, and we know the investment would be worth it.
>>
>>3576041
If she even has a Metapod phase. I could see it being some sort of thing where the Daughter has a weak for its level caterpillar form, then once she reaches her capstone it "prestiges" and gives her a second Core skill for the butterfly stage after a brief pupation.
>>
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>>3575042

You turn from the Midnight Crew's vigil to walk towards the shaded ruins, catching Dorian in the midst of his furious march.

"Hey. How're you holding up?" You ask, watching as he glances towards you upon completing

"Fine, Miss Shu, and yourself?" He fires back, immediately deflecting as you just raise an eyebrow. He falters a bit, casting his electric blue gaze across the crumbling ruins of the old home, now filled with little more than fetid biomass and bad memories.

"May I join your walk?" You ask.

"Oh... yes, by all means, Miss Shu." Comes his stilted reply, and the two of you walk half a lap in silence, the eerie ambiance of the forest settling in around you as you walk side by side.

"She robbed them." He finally mutters, stopping at the far end of the ruin, the furthest point from your allies. "The Hatter robbed those girls of the chance to grow on their own terms. The chance to salvage something, *anything* resembling happiness in the Crucible...like what Amara's found here, with Lady Julia, you, and the others. They deserved to be in control of their own lives, and she stole that from them."

"She did." You agree, the thought of the wretch forming a cold pit in your stomach as it forms a raging fire within the young man beside you. "But she's dead, and she's not going to..."

"West." He interrupts sharply, turning on his heel to face you. "Grinning Spartan. We have hundreds...no, thousands other monsters like them out there that don't care who they hurt, or worse...they care very, very much who they hurt."

He takes a deep, shuddering breath, holding it a moment before he continues.

"Choice and freedom are of utmost importance to me, Miss Shu." He says, his words clipped, each syllable coming out an edged weapon from an articulate tongue. "I believe everyone has a right to make their own decisions, to live life on their own terms and carve their own path to happiness...perhaps it makes me a hypocrite, then, that I believe those that would rob others of that choice should have neither the chance or the opportunity to do so. I am no philosopher, no...master of discourse. I paint, and I drink, and I care. And the fact that people like the Hatter and West exist is what makes me lose sleep at night...

"...but they don't have to exist, do they?" He asks flatly.

"Pardon?" You breathe.

"Your plan. Everything with the Cord, with what Gina can do..." He begins, stepping towards you as he honestly posits his question. "...could we make it so that when you bring everyone back, could you...make it so that people like the Hatter couldn't...that they could never..."

He shakes his head, running his hand through his silver hair as her studies your face with his single, azure eye.

"...I'll be honest, Miss Shu. I'm not sure what I'm asking." He sighs, looking towards Amara. "All I know is that I want my...I want children like her to have the chance to grow up, and be who they are without being hurt."

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Voting shall remain open for the next two hours, Gentlemen.)
>>
>>3576577
oh Dorian...i understand....but it doesn't work that way...Freedom does not exist...if you do not have the freedom to do wrong...it is the fact you can do wrong, but choose to do right, that makes doing right matter so much in the first place.

>Sigh, take a deep, long breath, eyes shut tight.
>turn to Dorian, give him a sad, small smile, as you take his hands in yours and give them a squeeze.
>"Dorian...did you know i almost killed Isabelle? when i first met her? she was following me, and i thought she may be a threat. i...didn't trust her, not at all." chuckle, then sigh, "regardless of who she did turn out to be...i could've been like everyone else...i could've struck her, tried to kill her and....instead i gave her a chance....i made a choice, but it was a choice i could make, because i had the decision to make a worse one...to hurt someone who, at the time at least, meant me no harm..."
>look off at the forest, think about all the past crucibles, but not enough to let the memories becomes visions.
>"We could make sure no one bad comes back, sure i guess, but are we really the ones who get to decide who is good and bad on that scale? dont get me wrong, there are some people even the bad and villainous agree are beyond redemption...but where would it end Dorian? does every person whos heart is bitter due to cruelty they themselves have faced deserve no life, just because they are not the nicest person? anyone whos ever struck another in anger, or lost their way?"
>grip one of his shoulders, and let your smile grow a bit more. "i know, i know thats not what you mean...but where would we draw the line, would we even be able to tell when we have crossed it? when we have started to not let people come back who at least deserve a second chance?"
>Sigh and pull away, but keep your eyes locked on his. "Dorian...freedom matters because...because people have the right to decide to do good...or do bad. doing right matters because they had that option...even if we stopped everyone bad from coming back, there would be no freedom, no point to giving people back their lives, if we then chained them down and took away their humanity, took away their ability to choose to do good, to make doing good something that actually matters...its up to good people to stop bad people, but its their ability to be bad that makes them a person in the first place, makes them free...and its their choice to choose to do good, even when it might hinder them personally, that makes them truly a good person worth protecting..."
>shrug, and look away. "I guess...thats just the thoughts of just some girl whos trying her best, with the freedom, and the control of her life it gave her, she found herself with in this damned fleshscape."
>>
>>3576577
Write In
>>Dorian i have an idea what you may want to say..... I can not promise you that we can save everyone nor can i promise to weed out all evil in this world that would harm those that can not protect themselves
>>What i can promise you is that i will try my best to give kids like these the best chance they can. Please do not forget i am no god nor dictator, i am your sibling(anyone has any better ideas?) by choice and i am as fallable as every other human to falling prey to my emotions
>>Weeding out those that have the potential to do harm? It is not a choice i can make and i do not think turning into the Arbiter of Live and Death is something anyone should try to become. Some of these people might have storys that while they do not justify their cruelty can shed some light upon why they did the things they did

>>Take the Grinning spartan for Instance. Her Philosophy at its core was about empowering yourself and giving others the ability to do the same. She was twisted by this game of Mother and Wests influence and while what she did is inexcusable i learned a valuable lesson from her. WE are all still human as fallable, weak and insignificant as everyone else but we have a seed for greatness in us all even if we are wicked

>>Maybe you know the Saying: "everyone is the Hero of their own story"?
>> I can not say what the Story of the Hatter is... nor do i really care to find out as no amount tragic backstory is going to justify her deeds
>>But by learnig what happened here and keeping our eyes open for signs in the future can make us more effective at helping people realize their own potential and happiness inside the crucible and beyond
>>
>>3576577
>"It would be tempting, Dorian. I'd hate anyone who hurts the innocent and those I care about. I'm not sure I could just forgive them for it even if they begged either. But one of the things I've learned from the Crucible is that the people we meet, we often see at their worst. We see them after hunger, temptation, isolation or trauma has turned them into monsters, and not as the people they used to be or could've been. I'm not saying they'll be good people in other circumstances, but since no one ever asked to be made to participate in a space parasite's death game, maybe they should have a chance to prove it and atone when this is all over."
>>
>>3576577
>"Dorian, I'll be honest."
>"What your asking is very much hypocritical indeed. To ask to set people free yet rob others the opportunity of the choice of a second chance."
>"To go down that path would turn you into the very thing you swore to destroy, the very parent you hated in your childhood, no matter how noble that path."
>"If you coddled and raised your child in a pampered shelter without it learning how to recover from a mistake or learning from a mistake... how can your child properly fend for itself when the time comes to make its own roost? How will your child learn and grow? How would you know that what you're doing for them...is actually hurting them?"
>"There will be a time when a child will inevitably make a mistake of her own doing and be hurt from their own devices. No amount of child-proofing can stop that. No matter the environment."
>"Amara...she feels hurt because of the weight of her own decisions that she feels responsible for."
>"It's up to us as parents to help her learn from her mistake, to help her bounce back, and come out wiser and mature."
>"That's the most we parents can do for children. Provide a space for them to freely grow, learn who they are, learn about the world, and be there for them when they need parents the most."
>"Now lets comfort the daughter of our little family shall we? Lets be there for Amara when she needs us the most, and Amara...she needs us."

>>3576593
>>3576597
>>3576600
Guys, I like these ideas, but those could be summed up easily. And I feel like we can expand this talk into a more personal subject for Dorian: Parenthood.
>"...I'll be honest, Miss Shu. I'm not sure what I'm asking." He sighs, looking towards Amara. "All I know is that I want my...I want children like her to have the chance to grow up, and be who they are without being hurt."
That pause on "All I know I want my..." seems like a dead giveaway that he's trying to relate to how he perceives himself as a parent.
>>
>>3576608
>Guys, I like these ideas, but those could be summed up easily. And I feel like we can expand this talk into a more personal subject for Dorian: Parenthood.

i kinda disagree. you're right there more to touch on here with his parent issues, but overlooking the importance of making sure we put forth what he is asking for in actual codified terms, if nothing else, will help him understand his hypocrisy aswell as why freedom matters, and what it actually is. its a grounding method, in part. hes talking about freedom while ignoring what it actually is, pulling him back to reality, no matter how harsh reality can be, by putting in solid terms what that actually means, will help other messages like yours stick better.

that, and i think actually solidifying and putting out there what we truly believe is far from a bad idea,and something we have not actually fully done with a teammate im pretty sure.
>>
>>3576608

I have to agree with this Anon >>3576615
He adresses that his wish makes him a hypocryte and turns to us for guidance on the matter and ask if there a boundries we do not wish to cross
We need to put those boundrys down to make sure we leave absolutely no ambiguity in that we do not endorse such behaivior no matter what we may want to do ourselves
As this is what sepperates us from monsters such as the Hatter or West. Empathy and self control

These are our highest virtues and need to be made as clear as possible. I think Dorian deep in his heart knows that but he wants to hear it from someone he respects as well
>>
>>3576615
pulling him back to reality with a honest admission that our method might not jive with him. giving him a grounded view will of our plans will help when we relate our philosophy with what he's struggling with himself.

He talked about freedom as his personal philosophy and admits that it may make him a hypocrite. He asks for a clarification about our plan to stop the Cord and how we codify our view of freedom and choice. But then the strange transition of Hatter and West (both whom are figures that tormented/experimented on children) and the Freudian slip-ups ("All I know is that I want my [child]...I want children like her") show his real struggle: his very personal quest of trying to understand his father and becoming a parent as his relationship with Julia and Amara is close to that of a Mother and Father with their daughter, as well as not becoming like his father.
>>3576625
I agree that solidifying our philosophy and setting hard boundaries will help Dorian's decision more with your arguments but I feel like the transition to learning how to be a Parent would also solidify the message even further since both talking points synergize with what he's asking of us.
So can we compromise and compile our answer to Dorian so that it both Codifies our philosophy/plan (setting hard boundaries and drawing the line) while helping Dorian apply that to the meaning of parenthood?
>>
>>3576640
yes, as i said, i agree he clearly wants and needs a bit of odd parental advice, but what hes looking for in that is based off his hypocrisy. in order to be able to give him any help to being a parent as he wants, we first have to put down the reality of what the world is and should be, aswell as what we wish to make it, so he can even have a grounding base to work both his own thoughts and ours off of when it comes to being a parent. he wants a perfect world where kids never are in danger, but the simple truth is, the world as it should be wont allow for that, and its something he needs to hear, accept, and learn to work off of. but he cant do that if we dont properly put in place what freedom and what it means and why it matters like n yours alone. it skips over the very important aspect of actually addressing the foundation of his worries. that his want for freedom cannot make a better or kind world. but hes wrong, because while freedom allows people to do bad, its what allows them to do actual good too, and is what makes people see the difference and be inspired to be good. you cant stop people from wanting to hurt others, or even stop all the pain possible in ones life, but you can protect them from the worst of it, and you can be there for them to lessen the pain of the lesser hurts. but thats only if you have the choice freedom gives in the first place.
>>
>>3576640

>>"Dorian i have an idea what you may want to say..... I can not promise you that we can save everyone nor can i promise to weed out all evil in this world that would harm those that can not protect themselves"
>>"What i can promise you is that i will try my best to give kids like these the best chance they can. Please do not forget i am no god nor dictator, i am your sibling by choice and i am as fallable as every other human to falling prey to my emotions"
>>"Weeding out those that have the potential to do harm? It is not a choice i can make and i do not think turning into the Arbiter of Live and Death is something anyone should try to become. Some of these people might have storys that while they do not justify their cruelty can shed some light upon why they did the things they did"
>>put a hand on his shoulders

>>"i have an idea how you feel you want them to grow up nice and save and if you feel like a parent that is completely understandable"
>>quietly whisper into his ear "I want to keep you all save too"
>>Look up into the skie with a far of gaze
>>"But as a parent it is also important to know and to accept that you can not control the world. Your child will make mistakes and be hurt and you will not be able to always be there for them in that moment. If you were always around your child it is my firm believe that a parent can coddle their child to death"
>>Meet his eyes and hold his gaze
>>"Children also need room to express and grow, just as you needed it when you went to art school, otherwise they become reliant on theri parents to much and once the parents are gone..... your child will die either of loniliness or because it can not deal with the cruelty of the World and it can not protect itself"
>>Take a deep breath and sigh loudly
>>"Maybe what i was trying to say was: We can keep our children save"
>>Look pointedly at Amara
>>"But as a parent it is also our duty to know when we have to let go of our feelings and let our children soar into the sky to stretch their winges for the first time"
>>Tone down our voice
>>"We will know if we raised them well if they one day come back to us as beautiful birds. Even if they do not thank us for raising them seeing them come back smiling and shining from a cruel world is reward in and of itself for a good parent"

Would these Amendments be to your linking Anon?
>>
>>3576593
>>3576597
>>3576608
how about this?

>Sigh, take a deep, long breath, eyes shut tight.
>turn to Dorian, give him a sad, small smile, as you take his hands in yours and give them a squeeze.
>"Dorian...did you know i almost killed Isabelle? when i first met her? she was following me, and i thought she may be a threat. i...didn't trust her, not at all." chuckle, then sigh, "regardless of who she did turn out to be...i could've been like everyone else...i could've struck her, tried to kill her and....instead i gave her a chance....i made a choice, but it was a choice i could make, because i had the decision to make a worse one...to hurt someone who, at the time at least, meant me no harm..."
>”Weeding out those that have the potential to do harm? It is not a choice i can make and i do not think turning into the Arbiter of Life and Death is something anyone should try to become. Some of these people might have storys that while they do not justify their cruelty can shed some light upon why they did the things they did.”
>”Take the Grinning spartan for Instance. Her Philosophy at its core was about empowering yourself and giving others the ability to do the same. She was twisted by this game of Mother and Wests influence and while what she did is inexcusable i learned a valuable lesson from her. WE are all still human as fallable, weak and insignificant as everyone else but we have a seed for greatness in us all even if we are wicked”
>"We could make sure no one bad comes back, sure i guess, but are we really the ones who get to decide who is good and bad on that scale? dont get me wrong, there are some people even the bad and villainous agree are beyond redemption...but where would it end Dorian? does every person whos heart is bitter due to cruelty they themselves have faced deserve no life, just because they are not the nicest person? anyone whos ever struck another in anger, or lost their way?"


(1/2)
>>
>>3576663
>grip one of his shoulders, and let your smile grow a bit more. "i know, i know thats not what you mean...but where would we draw the line, would we even be able to tell when we have crossed it? when we have started to not let people come back who at least deserve a second chance?"
>Sigh and pull away, but keep your eyes locked on his. "Dorian...freedom matters because...because people have the right to decide to do good...or do bad. doing right matters because they had that option...even if we stopped everyone bad from coming back, there would be no freedom, no point to giving people back their lives, if we then chained them down and took away their humanity, took away their ability to choose to do good, to make doing good something that actually matters...its up to good people to stop bad people, but its their ability to be bad that makes them a person in the first place, makes them free...and its their choice to choose to do good, even when it might hinder them personally, that makes them truly a good person worth protecting..."
>”What i can promise you is that i will try my best to give kids like these the best chance they can. Please do not forget i am no god nor dictator, i am your family by choice and i am as fallable as every other human to falling prey to my emotions.
>"But to go down the path you have presented would turn you into the very thing you swore to destroy, the very parent you hated in your childhood, no matter how noble that path."
>"If you coddled and raised your child in a pampered shelter without it learning how to recover from a mistake or learning from a mistake... how can your child properly fend for itself when the time comes to make its own roost? How will your child learn and grow? How would you know that what you're doing for them...is actually hurting them?"
>"There will be a time when a child will inevitably make a mistake of her own doing and be hurt from their own devices. No amount of child-proofing can stop that. No matter the environment. But its their ability, their freedom to make mistakes, do wrong and learn from them, that makes them grow."
>"Amara...she feels hurt because of the weight of her own decisions that she feels responsible for."
>"It's up to us as parents to help her learn from her mistake, to help her bounce back, and come out wiser and mature."
>"That's the most we parents can do for children. Provide a space for them to freely grow, learn who they are, learn about the world, and be there for them when they need parents the most."
>"Now lets comfort the daughter of our little family shall we? Lets be there for Amara when she needs us the most, and Amara...she needs us."

(2/2)
>>
>>3576663
>>3576664
I can support this, it shows the boundries we set for ourselves and shows dorian with hands on examples and our own experience what our opinion is about parentship and freedom in general
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>>3576665
Yeah, supporting as well. I spent the past hour and a half trying to write up my own entry and failing, this isn't quite what I want to say to Dorian but neither is anything I can come up with, and this is at least closer.
>>
>>3576664
>>3576663
Overall I like it.
>"Dorian...did you know i almost killed Isabelle? when i first met her? she was following me, and i thought she may be a threat. i...didn't trust her, not at all." chuckle, then sigh, "regardless of who she did turn out to be...i could've been like everyone else...i could've struck her, tried to kill her and....instead i gave her a chance....i made a choice, but it was a choice i could make, because i had the decision to make a worse one...to hurt someone who, at the time at least, meant me no harm..."
I think it would be better if the was more relatable of our decision to not consume Amara when she was still in her Pod instead of Isabelle. Amara wasn't even born yet literally powerless to our potential decision to end it, and we had her life in our grasp, which is as close as to being arbiter of life and death as Dorian was seeking from us when it came to our plan. Yet we made the choice not to.
But I also think Isabelle's example serves as a good one as well.
>>
>>3576577

To make it Official
>>3576663
>>3576664
Supporting this write in
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>>3576676
yeah, no the Amara one is really good too. one of my favorite decisions we have made even. i just felt the fact that giving Isabelle a chance was our very first decision to choose cooperation over power might be more impactful, it also shows a nice contrast i think, with how sadly, Isabelle turned out to be a bad person, but regardless of that, it doesn't change the fact we still made the right decision to choose to be a good person then, and wouldn't be where we were if not for that ability to choose, and same for her, if that makes sense?

we could add in the Amara part too though, though its already a pretty long segment.
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>>3576685
What if you re-worded it into
>"Dorian...did you know I once had the lives of Isabelle and Amara at my mercy? For Isabelle, I had ambushed her when I noticed she was following me and thought she may have been a threat. For Amara, she was still in her pod, unhatched. I could have killed Isabelle, or attacked her. I could have destroyed Amara's pod, and consumed her unborn corpse...instead i gave them a chance....i made a choice, but it was a choice i could make, because i had the decision to make a worse one...to hurt someone who, at the time at least, meant me no harm..."
>>
>>3576696
yeah, i like that, that works.

>>3576577
>>3576663
>>3576664
>>3576696
add in that edit then, and i think its pretty good.
>>
(Gentlemen, due to time constraints and the fact that I am the only one at work today, I may end up linking the popular vote and structuring the update around that to keep post flow steady. Would that be alright with everyone, or would you prefer I take my time with it? Today's schedule is looking to be a bit sporadic at best, so my apologies for any interruptions that may crop up. However, I will be posting into the early part of next week, so there's some silver lining. Let me know your thoughts, Gentlemen.)
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>>3576704
honestly? take your time with it. i wont lie and say it doesn't suck that the pacing keeps getting a bit interrupted, but id still rather you focus on what you need to do, both at work and with this, so as to keep the quality up for both, than rush or take shortcuts on either.
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>>3576704
Take your time Bhop.
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>>3576699
Take your time i cant look this thread up regularly anyway today so completely fine by me if it is a bit slower

There is just no reason to interrupt your Work for a hobby especially if you are alone
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>>3576704
Whichever results in things being less hectic for you, but I personally do enjoy how you work write-ins into the narrative flow. So a less steady update schedule today is fine by me.
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>>3576708
>>3576714
>>3576716
>>3576719
(I appreciate that, Gentlemen. Posting will be sporadic this weekend as several people have been out and I'm playing catch up for my work and theirs. Thank you for your patience, and I do wish to give your excellent write-ins the effort they deserve. A more regular posting schedule will resume this Monday, and I shall updste when I can over today and the next, Gentlemen.)
>>
Can we take a moment to appreciate the fact that after drinking several bee's knees Shu proceeded to shoot knees with bee's?
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>>3576751
all good ideas come from somewhere. though alcohol isnt the most common one.
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>>3576577

You breathe in, closing your eyes to the night sky as you draw in as much air as you can, mulling over what Dorian’s said to you. You breathe out as you turn to him with a sad, small smile, taking his scarlet-armored hands in your chitinous gauntlets.

"Dorian...did you know I once had the lives of Isabelle and Amara at my mercy?” You begin, and his silver eyebrow arches at the revelation. “I did. For Isabelle, I had ambushed her when I noticed she was following me and thought she may have been a threat. For Amara, she was still in her pod, unhatched. I could have killed Isabelle, or attacked her. I could have destroyed Amara's pod, and consumed her unborn corpse, but instead I gave them a chance...I made a choice, but it was a choice i could make, because I had the decision to make a worse one; to hurt someone who, at the time at least, meant me no harm."

He glances between your eyes in silent contemplation, listening intently to your words.

”Weeding out those that have the potential to do harm? It’s not a choice I can make, Dorian…and I don’t think turning into the Arbiter of Life and Death is something anyone should try to become. Some of these people might have stories that while they do not justify their cruelty can shed some light upon why they did the things they did.” You continue, and Dorian’s jaw goes tight before you explain. ”Take the Grinning Spartan, for instance. We had a chance to talk in the dreamscape, and her philosophy is about empowering yourself and giving others the ability to do the same. She was twisted by this game, by Mother, and by West. While what she did is inexcusable I learned a valuable lesson from her; WE are all still human, Dorian. Each and every one of us is fallible, weak and insignificant as everyone else…but we have a seed for greatness in us, regardless of our flaws.”

“I…did not know about the Spartan.” He says, somewhat taken aback before he turns to you, his steely resolve returning. “And what of West? She’s poised to win the Crucible, and she has who knows how many versions of herself running around and taking advantage of people. That’s not misguided, Miss Shu…that is evil, pure and simple.”

"We could make sure no one like West comes back, certainly…but are we really the ones who get to decide who is good and bad on that scale?” You counter, and he’s about to open his mouth to speak before you gently raise your hand, a silent request for him to bear with you. “Don’t get me wrong, there are some people even the bad and villainous agree are beyond redemption...but where would it end, Dorian? Does every person whose heart is bitter due to cruelty they themselves have faced deserve no life, just because they are not the nicest person? Anyone who’s ever struck another in anger, or lost their way?"

“What about those that’ve betrayed who loved them?” He replies, eyes locked with yours. “What about people like Sam?”

(Continued)
>>
>>3576823

You just stare at him a moment, at a loss for words.

“Lady Julia has Daughters in her mind…Miss Rath and Amara do, as well.” He continues, choosing his words deliberately. “I…I do not, so I cannot pretend to know how you and the others have dealt with these people that now dwell in your most personal of places. You have granted them a second chance, you’ve…you’ve let them live through you. I am not prepared to give the Hatter or Sam that same chance, and I don’t think you are, either. I'm not convinced monsters like them deserve the sort of second chance you seem so keen on offering."

You search each other’s eyes for a long moment, the two of you letting yourselves cool off a moment before Dorian continues with a sigh.

“…I’m sorry for bringing up your past.” He says finally, guilt emanating from him across your empathic field. “That was uncalled for, but I just…I want people to be free, but I don’t want them to hurt. I know what I’m saying isn’t fair, it isn’t right, but I just…we have a chance to make the world a better place, to make *people* better. It’s something I knew I needed to bring up to you, Miss Shu. I did not mean to disrespect you or your ideals, but…we have to consider our options, given these remarkable circumstances.”

You reach out, and he’s on edge for a half-second until you put a hand on his shoulder, sending a pulse of acceptance across the empathic wire.

"I know you meant no offense, and it’s alright...but my question is this; where would we draw the line once we started ‘fixing’ people, and would we even be able to tell when we have crossed it?” You ask with a shuddering sigh, taking your hand away but keeping your gaze locked on his. "Dorian...freedom matters because people have the right to decide to do good...or do bad. Doing right matters because they had that option...even if we stopped everyone bad from coming back, there would be no freedom, no point to giving people back their lives if we then chained them down and took away their humanity, took away their ability to *choose* to do good, to make doing good something that actually matters. It’s up to good people to stop bad people, but it’s their ability to be bad that makes them a person in the first place, makes them free...and it’s their choice to choose to do good, even when it might hinder them personally, that makes them truly a good person worth protecting...”

(Continued)
>>
>>3576827

”What I can promise you is that I will try my best to give kids like these the best chance they can. Please do not forget that I’m no god nor dictator…I’m your family by choice Dorian, and I am every bit as fallible as every other human.” Comes your declaration, your determination coalescing inside of you as you speak. "But to go down the path you have presented would turn you into the very thing you swore to destroy, the very parent you hated in your childhood, no matter how noble that path. "If you coddled and raised your child in a pampered shelter without it learning how to recover from a mistake or learning from a mistake... how can your child properly fend for itself when the time comes to make its own roost? How will your child learn and grow? How would you know that what you're doing for them is actually hurting them?"

“…You wouldn’t.” He replies softly.

"There will be a time when a child will inevitably make a mistake of her own doing and be hurt from their own devices.” You turn, looking towards your youngest ally across the glen, still sitting next to Lara with bated breath. “No amount of child-proofing can stop that. No matter the environment. But it’s their ability, their freedom to make mistakes, do wrong and learn from them that makes them grow. Amara...she feels hurt because of the weight of her own decisions that she feels responsible for. It's up to us as parents to help her learn from her mistake, to help her bounce back, and come out wiser and mature."

He nods, casting another glance to where Lara’s body rapidly recovers, Amara still at her side.

"That's the most we parents can do for children; provide a space for them to freely grow, learn who they are, learn about the world, and be there for them when they need parents the most." You conclude, extending your hand to Dorian with a warm smile. "Now…let’s comfort the daughter of our little family shall we? Let’s be there for Amara when she needs us the most, and Amara...she needs us, Dorian. She needs you."

At that, he smiles. You can feel his anger receding, replaced with the same desire you felt when you first met him in his estate, a moment that feels like an eternity ago. He wants to help, and as you both walk towards your allies you know that’s exactly what he’ll do.

(Continued)
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>>3576830

"Hey, Amara…are you okay?" You ask softly once you return to the group, sitting down beside the little girl and crossing your legs awkwardly in the Chitinous Stalwart while Dorian kneels across from the two of you.

“…are you mad at me?” She questions, peeking over her knees as she draws them tighter to her chest. You reach out, and your heart breaks a little when she flinches away from your hand.

"No Amara, not at all.” Comes your calm reply, folding your hands in front of you as you hold the girl’s two-tone gaze. “Despite the angry girl inside of me Amara, I want to help you."

“As do I.” Dorian adds, extending his hand slowly, a slender trickle of scarlet that Amara lets wrap around her pinky finger as he wiggles it playfully. “If you want to talk about what happened, I’m all ears.”

At this his ears enlarge, the liquid that they’re composed of undulating as they flap playfully, and to your relief he’s able to coax a giggle out of the morose young girl, a glimmer of her joy peeking through her sadness.

“Um…I really just wanna wait for the caterpillar to wake up.” She mutters, shifting to sit in your lap as she looks between you and Dorian. “Is that…is that okay?”

“Absolutely.” Dorian replies, moving closer with a kind, comforting smile that brings one to your lips, as well. Amara reaches out, throwing her arms around you both as tight as she can before the massive form behind you draws in a harsh breath, rousing from her fitful slumber.

“How’re you feeling?” You ask, turning to the Unnatural Predator.

“BETTER THAN I DID.” Lara replies with a deep, throaty chuckle as she wiggles the caterpillar feet that she’s been able to regenerate, each one tipped with a chitinous, yet mammalian paw. “PEASE ACCEPT MY APOLOGIES FOR ATTACKING YOU EARLIER. I…I MISREAD THE SITUATION ENTIRELY, AND I AM SO SORRY.”

“It’s alright. I’m glad that you told us what was going on before things escalated past the point where we could…salvage things.” You say with a glance at her regenerating form.

“Y’know, if you wanna make it up to us, you coul…ow, what?” Jackie winces after getting elbowed in the ribs by Keane, who’s currently shooting her leader a pointed glare.

“I DO, ACTUALLY.” Lara says solemnly. “YOU NOT ONLY SAVED MY LIFE, BUT YOU ALSO REMOVED THE HATTER FROM THIS FOREST. I WILL STAY HERE TO PROTECT THOSE THAT WANDER IN…BUT FOR NOW I WOULD LIKE TO OFFER MY SERVICES AS A GUIDE OUT OF THIS PLACE.”

>>CONSUME, then take up Lara’s offer as a guide. [16 POINTS TO DISTRIBUTE]

>>Touch base with someone else in your team before you proceed (Choose ally).

>>Tap into the trees before you leave and explore what you can of the past.

>>Have Lara guide you to other places of note in the forest. You’re little worse for wear, and there may be other points on interest here.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
>>3576832
>>CONSUME, then take up Lara’s offer as a guide. [16 POINTS TO DISTRIBUTE]
>>Write-In
>"Is there going to be enough for you to eat here? You're holding it together well, but I can tell how hungry you are. The Hunger's getting stronger, lately, it's a change to drive up conflict. Make sure to find some new hunting grounds, you're going to need them."

I want to access the trees for more information, but we can do that after we've done the Armory Raid. Don't want the Crew to get too antsy. With a friendly murderpillar hanging around here now, it should be somewhat safer to explore.
>>
>>3576832
ah, well that turned out lovely. wonderful to see Dorian have resolve to question us back. you did good BHOP.

>>CONSUME, then take up Lara’s offer as a guide.
Jackie: 2 points
Keane: 2 points
Ace: 2 points
Quinn: 2 points
Lara: 2 points

Shu: 2 points
>HUNDRED HANDED
>HALO

Amara: 2 points
>JOYOUS MANY
>QUEEN CRIMSON

Dorian: 2 points
>SPRING HEELED JACK
> ACCUMULATED CHARGE
>>
>>3576832
>CONSUME, then take up Lara’s offer as a guide. [16 POINTS TO DISTRIBUTE]
Two each including Lara.
>"Is there going to be enough for you to eat here? You're holding it together well, but I can tell how hungry you are. The Hunger's getting stronger, lately, it's a change to drive up conflict. Make sure to find some new hunting grounds, you're going to need them."
>>
>>3576869
Yeah, it's always good to have characters actually respond to a write-in instead of just treating it like a speech. Makes them feel a lot more dynamic and real. I've seen quests that fail at that, and it makes everything seem to so wooden. Good job, BHOP.
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>>3576832.
>"Here, you can have a share of the feast Lara. You spent many months doing your best to track and kill the Hatter, and to save the daughters that you could. That and the fact that you're a very, hungry, Caterpiller."
>"I do want to warn you Lara, the Hunger has gotten stronger since the past few days. You may want to expand your hunting grounds, Last I heard of this place a few days ago it was supposedly crawling with Amalgams yet the forest is silent. Please be mindful of your feeding habits Lara. Besides, Amara's looking forward to the day where she can see you flying high in the sky as a beautiful butterfly."
>offer Lara 2 points of level-up as a price for accepting her as our guide in Carroll's Forest, it's the least you could do. That and you could tell that Lara is a VERY HUNGRY CATERPILLAR.
>"Thank you Lara. My family and the Crew are looking for an Armory of sorts somewhere in the forest. Do you know perchance where it is?"

Consume level up distribution:
Points available: 16
Participants:
>Lara: 2
>Shu: 2
>Dorian: 2
>Amara: 2
>Jackie: 2
>Ace: 2
>Keane: 2
>Quinn: 2
Points used: 16

Point distribution:
Shu
>Neurotic Halo
>Hundred Handed
Amara:
>Queen Crimson
>Joyous Many
Dorian:
>Spring Heeled Jack
>Accumulating Charge.
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>>3576883
>"Thank you Lara. My family and the Crew are looking for an Armory of sorts somewhere in the forest. Do you know perchance where it is?"
For the last time: NO, WE AREN'T. The Armory is on the other side of the Forest. We are just passing through.
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>>3576883
The Armory is beyond the forest but we can ask her to bring us to the Forests edge

Otherwise i agree on the proposal
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>>3576883
>"Thank you Lara. My family and the Crew are looking for an Armory of sorts somewhere in the forest. Do you know perchance where it is?"
the Armory isnt in the forest and the Midnight Crew already know where it is.
>>
(I will say that you are more than welcome to vote for which abilities to level up if you wish, as some of you have already done.)

(Also, the Armory is just outside the forest and very well hidden.)
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>>3576885
>>3576889
>>3576886
Pardon me, I keep on having a persistent assumption that the Armory's hidden within the forest.

>>3576883
Amending my vote to change
>"Thank you Lara. My family and the Crew are looking for an Armory of sorts somewhere in the forest. Do you know perchance where it is?"
into
>"We're looking to cross to the western edge of the Forest. Can you guide us there?"
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>>3576866
>>3576878
>>3576886
so any contention on me and this Anons points distribution?
>>3576869
>>3576883
>>
>>3576915
Fine by me. I'd like to give Amara some points in Hallowed Lexicon at her next level-up, though. We really shouldn't neglect it just because words aren't dependent on levels.
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>>3576891
the voting's been easier this time because of the relatively smaller of options that we have to peruse and debate upon compared to the last time we had a level up session (Sprialing Fear, 45 points for level up distribution, 20+ abilities to peruse and consume from, 5 characters to debate the level up distribution, and 6 hours spent on debating and voting).

>>3576915
If last night's debate holds true, it seems to be the agreed upon compromise after several posts of heated debate of the hard limits of level distribution.
>>3576919
It's hard to find new Alien Vocabulary. The only instances where we see Amara actually picking up a new word is from looking at objects (SkinTalker Researcher's FOL rune, Untainted Sparagmos Engine Rev concept)
I do hope we find a SkinTalker's Dictionary in the Armory though...

Also I had a thought. What if we hybridized Sternutation Cannon with Lexicon? Turn Amara's spell into literal Dragon Shouts?
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>>3576931
>Also I had a thought. What if we hybridized Sternutation Cannon with Lexicon? Turn Amara's spell into literal Dragon Shouts?
Possibly. Very loud commands that have more power but less control, is what I'd guess that would be like. But we kind of want Amara to be at least decently stealthy, so I'd rather not give up on that. If she could get to the point where she could just whisper Skintalker words, that would be the idea.
>>
We should tell Lara that hanging around the same spot for too long is a good way to become a hunger crazed psychopath.
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>>3576919
sure, we also probably should've sent some of her clones out to explore, but then again im not sure we have any place to really send them.

>>3576931
im...not sure. the question becomes, would Cannon combine with Holistic Lexicon, or with the Lexicon of Flesh more? as her actual core actually has little to do with her actual word casting directly, only the level 5 choice i think did anything with the actual Lexicon, but level 5 is a special scenario as it was due to the choice.
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>>3576939
Yes, that's part of several votes, telling her that she needs to find a wider hunting ground or the Hunger will get to her.
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>>3576936
You raise very good points on the merits of not hybridizing. I raised this talking point just to probe the possibility of finding a way to make use of Amara's Sternutation cannon without having to see it possibly lost forever upon Engine Rearrangement since we don't know which ability inherited from the Soroitas Amalgam is actually her core ability.
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>>3576954
well, BHOP already confirmed you can get rid of a core without losing the dream daughter, so thats not a worry. my guess would also be we may not of rolled it, but who knows. the passive she got from them honestly sound the closest to what their core may of been to me.
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>>3576961
Yeah, if I remember right it's that removing the skill removes it forever unless you have the Dream Daughter in you, not the other way around. We don't have to worry about erasing any of the Sororitas. Pretty sure.
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(The Sororitas are completely safe within Amara regardless of what abilities you delete, so no worries.)
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>>3576964
i think we can still lose the ability unless its their core, but yes we do not have to worry about losing a dream daughter via using the engine. it came up due to me wanting to condense Tread down to just stats, and BHOP said both that and getting rid of them does not get rid of dream daughters.

but on the more topical note, i still do really think Cannon just isnt a power we can really properly utilize on her. it just sticks out in her build like a sore thumb in my opinion. i also honestly cant see any hybrids with it that would be worth shooting for.
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>>3576973
It sticks out like a sore thumb because it's an ability to be used after Amara's stealth is rendered useless.
Think of it this way. Amara goes in quietly, then exits loud with SkinTalker shouts and Explosive Sneezes, all the while chaotic shenanigans happens due to a sudden appearance of a swarm of clones.
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>>3576973
I like Amara having an emergency self-defense weapon, see how it saved her just now with the Hatter, but I agree it's probably not that useful for her. We're unlikely to level it up much, which means outside of rare situations it's not actually going to be great at self-defense, and so she really should rely on something better. Hopefully Queen Crimson, it looks like it's probably going to become a full-on Carnage symbiote as it levels up, so that could protect her.
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>>3576977
Except she has Queen Crimson that she can still use in close combat for that. Honestly you less convinced me to keep Cannon and more convinced me it needs to be replaced with a stealth ability.

Though i will note it was part of the group of abilities we chose when fully consuming the Soroitas, so i guess i could see the argument of keeping it justto honor them, but like
>>3576980
Said i just can't see us putting many levels into it, she just has things in her kit that mesh so much better and that the levels would be better spent in.
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>>3577010
We'll find creative uses for it even at lvl 1.
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>>3577016
How? Its literally just a shotgun from the nose, but harder to aim in exchange for a bigger blast. Its a pretty blunt and straight forward ability.
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>>3577021
>>3577010

Are you sure it's a shotgun from the nose? I'm pretty sure that when we sneeze, we spray from our mouth, not our nostrils. Our nasal canal is connected to our mouth. So when we sneeze, we gather the particulates inside our mouth and throat before the explosive sneeze.

SkinTalkers can generate mouths from anywhere on their body if I recall BHOP's word, we can give her shotgun hands by forming a mouth on her hand and activating Sternutation cannon.
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>>3577033
No, you spray from your nostrils. When people sneeze they actually push their tongue up against the roof of their mouth to help divert air into the nose. Some air escapes through the mouth, but only because the seal is imperfect. Amara would need to be able to make noses everywhere on her body, not mouths.
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>>3577033
im not sure what kinda sneezes you have, but i certainly have snot come from my nose when i sneeze. either way, sternuation, and sneezing, is tied to irritation of the nose, not mouth, and anything from the mouth is due to the proximity of the inner tubes to eachother, meaning even if she did fire it from her mouth, it would have t be a mouth near her nose, or at least a nose.
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And I'm off to work. See you in about 5 hours
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>>3577083
Good bye. I'm off to the store, myself.
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>>3576832

"Lara, I want you to have a share of the feast." You offer, withdrawing the Hatter's crystalline core. "You spent many months doing your best to track and kill the Hatter, and to save the daughters that you could. That and the fact that you're a very hungry Caterpillar."

Lara just laughs, her segments undulating with the gesture as your allies gather around you.

"I do want to warn you Lara, the Hunger has gotten stronger since the past few days. You may want to expand your hunting grounds, because last I heard of this place a few days ago it was supposedly crawling with Amalgams yet the forest is silent, so please be mindful of your feeding habits." You warn, splitting off a small segment of the biomass to give to the large Daughter as you cast a half-smile up at her compound eye. "Besides, Amara's looking forward to the day where she can see you flying high in the sky as a beautiful butterfly."

"I SHALL NOT DISAPPOINT HER, THEN." She replies, gazing down at Amara as the little one gives her an enthusiastic nod.

With that...it's time to feed.

SHU – LEVEL UP

>>NEUROTIC HALO (Lvl 4): The Neurotic Halo’s influence now grants you vastly enhanced sight, allowing them to see through most conventional forms of camouflage and flesh-shaping, as well as giving you perfect vision for up to one kilometer away while the Halo is active. Additionally, the enhanced cognition granted by the Halo now boosts your Swarmling cap by 5 and reduces the cost of your constructs by 3%, for a minimum of 1% per construct. The vision-enhancing nature of these abilities encourage the wearer to look, look with their special eyes. (BIO +20%)

>>HUNDRED-HANDED (Lvl 4): A fist raised for all that stand beside you, and two for every one that you've lost. Your hands now gain a stacking 0.25% attack boost per limb generated, considerably enhancing the offensive properties of your immensely powerful Generator ability. Additionally, each limb now carries a very small and stacking chance to automatically throw you out of harm's way if you would land in treacherous terrain, resulting in you being at the edge of the dangerous zone. (BIO REGEN +10%)

(Continued)
>>
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>>3577261

AMARA – LEVEL UP

>>QUEEN CRIMSON (Lvl 2): A threat thrown, your vengeance returned with interest. Projectile attacks that would impact or land a short distance from Amara are now automatically caught while Queen Crimson is active, resulting in the defensive field throwing the attack back at the sender with a 10% attack bonus to to the ferocity with which it is returned. Additionally, Amara now takes half as much damage from her foes' sneak attacks regardless of whether or not the field is active, as the latticework of blood will now automatically spring to life to protect its young charge. (BIO REGEN +10%)

>>THE JOYOUS MANY (Lvl 2): One for all, all for one. Amara's clones now actively benefit from the effects of any Tier 2 or lower Relics that are currently influencing Amara herself, though the effects on the clones remain active only for as long as your youngest ally has them effecting her. Additionally, if one or more clones are destroyed for any reason, Amara is refunded a small portion of the cost of their creation as long as they are within long range. (HEALTH +40%, HEALTH REGEN +20%)

DORIAN – LEVEL UP

>>SPRING-HEELED JACK (Lvl 2): Dorian may now choose to expend 30% HEALTH and 50% BIO at the start of combat to initiate an incredibly quick and devastating charge, crossing up to three movement zones to deliver a powerful strike that boasts increased attack and critical hit chance, with any resulting critical hit dealing an additional 50% damage. (HEALTH + 30%)

>>ACCUMULATED CHARGE (Lvl 2): Becoming with with electricityitself seems to have been a key component of this power's original wielder. Now, Dorian gains a variety of effects dependent on how many CHARGE stacks he has active. Five stacks grants him a single level of resistance to electric damage, while ten results in him expending a single stack every time he is hit by a melee attack to send a severely damaging arc back at the offender. At fifteen stacks, he is granted an additional level of electric resistance, and later abilities will serve to make greater use of a dangerous level or charges.(BIO + 30%)

(Continued)
>>
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>>3577272

You take up Lara's offer on safe passage through the forest and, upon testing out her regenerated legs and finding them to her satisfaction, she proceeds to lead you a long, winding path through the densely-packed foliage. The journey is made in silence at her insistence, and it's quiet trek for over an hour and a half until you see the gently twinkling lights of the faux-night sky beyond the edge of the treeline. You emeger into a clearing a little ways before you exit the forest proper, and when you set foot into the space, you freeze.

The trees have been sliced away with tremendous force, and where the forest hasn’t been leveled there are long, blackened scorch marks along the ground. You kneel, catching sight of deep grooves in the trees at the edge of the circular war zone and running a hand along the charred ground.

You know exactly what happened here.

Looking up, a lanky figure catches your eye as it rises in the shadows, clutching something mechanical and spine-like in one gloved hand. Her sharp white physician's coat is a little too large for her wiry frame, and the silhouette she cuts is one that fills you with equal parts dread and fury.

“Ah…hello there, Shu.” The lanky Doctor says, the tattered remains of a metal construct held limply in her grasp.

It occurs to you that the person before you isn’t quite the devil you know...but rather, she's the one you don’t.

“Hello, Francine.” You reply coolly. She nods slowly, keeping a close eye on you before her gaze darts towards the mechanical soldier that looms behind you.

"Ah, Neeson." She says with some surprise. "I hadn't expected to meet you here. Glad to see you're doing well."

"Likewise, Doctor." Heather replies, giving the woman a salute. "What brings you out of the fort?"

"Cleanup." She casually replies, giving the item in her grasp a little shake. You recognize it as the one Isabelle tore from the throat of the Proxy she brutalized shortly before she found you and your team. "I have a Conduit associate back at the lab who can...process this properly."

You cast a glance behind you, the Midnight Crew on guard against the familiar face. You’re acutely aware that you have an Armory to scour, but given what you and Dorian discussed, you wonder if a brief chat wouldn't be a terrible thing...

...you tell yourself that, despite the ball of hate in your throat.

>>Spare a moment to speak with the Proxy (Write-in).

>>Tell Francine you'd be willing to 'dispose' of the item for her. You saw what it can do, and you don't trust any version of West having access to something like that.

>>Dispense with the pleasantries and keep moving towards the Armory. You don’t have time for any version of West, right now.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
>>3577300
>>Dispense with the pleasantries and keep moving towards the Armory. You don’t have time for any version of West, right now.
>>Explain to the Midnight Crew the why you let this one go, even if you still dont like her.
>>Question November about her, and her thoughts on her compared to the other Wests, if she even realizes there is others.

shes not worth our time honestly, but fighting over the device probably isnt worth it either. hopefully she doesn't just hand it off to another West, and ill be pissed if she does, but i guess having it locked up with the DOs isnt the worst thing, and they probably could just make another one anyways. shes still a West and i still dont want to give her the time of day, nor do i think she deserves it, even given she seems to be trying to be different. she can take us not attacking her on sight and letting her take the device as us being as nice as we can be to her.
>>
>>3577261
Ooh, more swamlings, less cost, and arms that improve both offense and defense. Nice.

>>3577272
Oh shit, the Joyous Many can use Amara's Relics now? What level is the Shawl? Can we have infinite invisible catgirls spread throughout the land, now?

Dorian's stuff is okay, but seems mostly foundational. Definitely things to get really strong later, but for now they're not the best.

>>3577300
I'm a little confused. What is it that Francine has? Gamma's beam-focusing apparatus?
>>
>>3577318
yeah, she has the mouth device Gamma West had that looked like braces, but was actually some sorta focusing thing that was her entire throat, and allowed her to fire off the beam that could outpace even Isabelles regen.

also the sheets are up to date.
>>
>>3577318
(You are correct on all counts.)
>>
>>3577321
(Thank you for updating them, as always!)
>>
>>3577300
>"So were you the one who installed those braces on her?"
>"How's the rocket ship plan coming along?"
>>
>>3577338
Nice. It's not quite as good as it could be, with Amara Prime needing to be wearing the Shawl too, so no covering every single surface area of the Crucible with invisible catgirls. Yet. But even as it is, that's going to aid in scouting a lot. Very good stuff.
>>
>>3577348
i really dont want to talk to her.

>>3577318
its funny that the one thing we might've taken from the consume option we sorta got from the Halos adaptation too.
>>
>>3577300
>>Write-In
>"I'm surprised to see you outside of the bunker, Francine. Aren't you supposed to be the backup? Kind of defeats the purpose if you leave the secure location. What's so important about Gamma's beam cannon that you couldn't leave retrieving it to anyone else?"

I think Francine is plotting against the other Wests. It's pretty strongly implied that she's the doctor who augmented November and gave her that rant about "there's no you but you, once you're gone that's it". She's out here away from the Disassociated Ones, working against her intended role as a secure backup. Her personal project was a device to block long-distance telepathic links. I think there's a part of Francine rebelling against the idea that she's a living corpse possessed by a psychic clone of a mad scientist, and wants out. Maybe she's not a good person, but I think this might be an enemy of our enemy thing.
>>
>>3577372
i mean, she could be the one out there because she was just assigned the job and had no choice, she also could've been the one to make the device. i also dont trust enemy of my enemy situations, and shes honestly not done anything worth gaining our trust. like...the other scientist said, putting a kill switch in our head simply would ruin her reputation both inside and outside the DOs, so her not fucking us over with it means very little.
>>
>>3577380
Oh, no, she's definitely not trustworthy. The enemy of my enemy is not my friend, but they can be a useful asset. We might be able to take advantage of whatever she's plotting. That's why I want more information.
>>
>>3577385
i still dont want to waste any time talking to any west. i doubt shes going to give up going away with the DOs when they leave, and thus anything she has planned probably wont amount to much, if she even has anything planned. she seemed more than willing last we met her to accept her role as the backup West and escape any involvement or connection to the other Wests via leaving with the DOs, rather than making herself an actual target by outright going against them.

let her do whatever the fuck she and her useless robot friends are doing, and move on with more important business. shes not worth the dandruff laced oxygen.
>>
>>3577300
Changing>>3577348
to supporting >>3577372
>>
>>3577372
>>3577300
Supporting this
i am interested in her reason to being here, she is probably quite strong but still, sending a back up to get something tht you could have someone else get just makes no sense
>>
>>3577423
She claims to only be level three. So she must be feeling real awkward having us see her here. "Well, you see, when I said that my only ability was a level three neuromancer skill, I really meant...um...fuck."
>>
>>3577430
well, technically nothing she has said or shown disproves that. not that i trust her, i mean, think about November, shes probably not the highest level yet her DO tech makes her a badass. id reckon those mechanical tentacles we saw her with are far from weak, nor her only piece of tech no her.

also why are we wasting time on her godamnit.
>>
>>3577300
Backing this >>3577372
>>
>>3577434
>also why are we wasting time on her godamnit.
Because it has the potential to be interesting. It's going to be five minutes of awkward conversation in-character, we might learn useful things, and then we'll be off again.
>>
>>3577459
its not worth it, its never worth it with West, no matter the form.
>>
>>3577459
the less time given to being spent on West being around, the better.
>>
>>3577461
>>3577511
Look, I hate West too, but she is undeniable a good source of information and plot hooks.
>>
>>3577551
no. the less of her, the better. always. she ticks too many negative boxes for me to enjoy her presence. i can respect she is written well but when it comes to her all i want is her gone as quickly and painfully as possible. while i concede she will be around longer than id ever like, the less she is involved in the story and its plot, the better. any chance we have to give her the middle finger and isn't taken is a mistake. the sooner we get her to be a whimpering mess as she chokes on her own blood while realizing everything she has done will amount to nothing, the better. anything else involving her but that is just a waste of time better spent.
>>
>>3577563
>any chance we have to give her the middle finger and isn't taken is a mistake
Implying that we know what she's planning and that being so smart doesn't make her any less obvious is a way of flipping her off.

>the sooner we get her to be a whimpering mess as she chokes on her own blood while realizing everything she has done will amount to nothing, the better
And I'm hoping that we'll be able to use whatever Francine is planning to speed that along.
>>
>>3577577
i really dont care. the less time spent on West for any reason, the better. fuck her and fuck wasting time on her.
>>
>>3577563
She truly disturbs you. Greatly, based on how vehemently you protest us talking with her.

>>3577372
Support. I too would like to talk with her the more I think about It. If nothing else to get a better grasp of how her proxies tick.
>>
>>3577595
disturbs? not really, i just despise her vehemently. literally the only potential trait not negative about her i can think of is she doesn't outright lie, but she does negate telling the entirety of the truth and lead people on via omission, so i cant even honestly say that. id rather go through another fight with Isabelle than have to deal with her in any form but us gutting her like a fish.
>>
>>3577602
That's not a fair comparison, we could one-shot B'Ni now. Maybe not by the time she gets whatever avatar upgrades Mother gives her, though. But for now, sure. Rath could kill her with a single punch.
>>
>>3577614
yes but i was not talking about her as she is now.
>>
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>>3577300

"I'm surprised to see you outside of the bunker, Francine. Aren't you supposed to be the backup?" You ask, flexing your gauntlets absent-mindedly.

"The Daughter inside it." She replies without hesitation. "You know how West makes her particular brand of Relic. As much as Relic creation and optimzation intrigues me, I believe that her methods sit as well with me as they do with you."

She glances towards your waist, and you become acutely aware of the Spine and Nail at your side.

"I...admire what you're doing, if I'm being honest." She says airily before her eyes snap to yours, and she pointedly adds; "all of what you're doing."

"Hm." You murmur, and you hear November's neck creak as she looks between the two of you. "You know, it kind of defeats the purpose if you leave the secure location. What's so important about Gamma's beam cannon that you couldn't leave retrieving it to anyone else?"

"...I'm not exactly supposed to be the one who picks this up." Francine explains, casting an alert glance towards the woods around you. "On the last West-wide update, Prime asked the closest Proxy to retrieve it, but they were in the middle of something...so I took a chance."

"What about your connection to the rest of your people?" You fire back.

Her answer comes when she tucks a strand of off-blonde hair behind one ear, revealing a considerably more ornate version of your implant embedded in her ear.

"Jammed, thanks in part to your inspiration." Francine hums, letting her yellow strands fall back in place. She studies you a moment in the evening's light, and when she speaks again, it's hesitantly, with a great deal of strain evident in her tone. She going out on a limb she believes will break, but you can tell she feels like it's now or never.

"I...had something I meant to ask you, should that fate saw fit for us to meet again."

"And what's that?" You reply flatly, your feet itching to carry you away from here, from her.

"I believe I've found a way to destroy a Daughter's proxies en-masse." She says, her electric eyes watching your visage for any trace of reaction. "All of them, all at once. It's not something I can do alone, but...I thought you should know that there's a way."

Silence settles between you, and you can feel your allies' eyes on you as your mind whirls.

"...and why the hell would you want to do that, West?" You finally ask in disbelief.

A pause.

"Because it's the only thing I can do that matters." She replies.

>>Hear her out.

>>Tell her you're not interested.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
>>3577634
yeah nah i dont trust her one damned bit. we can deal with West on our own without relying on anything that was once one of her.

>>Tell her to go fuck herself.
>>
>>3577634
Thats a bit of a bamboozle...

Write In
>>Do you want to die or do you have a way to exclude yourselve from that fate?

>>Hear her out afterwards, if it becomes clear she is stalling just leave her
>>
>>3577634
>>Write-In
>"Why now? You seemed content to be West's back-up drive a few days ago. What changed?"
>>
>>3577657
>Thats a bit of a bamboozle...
ive seen BHOP giving Francine West a chance to be an actual good guy coming since she was first shown to be supposedly not as bad, i just dont care, as shes still a west and doesn't deserve a chance at redemption.
>>
>>3577661
Yeah, it was obvious she was going to make a return and be a possible source of assistance. The question is how much we can trust her. I'm not dismissing it out of hand like you are, but it is a hard sell.
>>
(Gentlemen, this will more than likely be where I'll be pausing for the evening. Thank you so much for your patience with today's schedule, and voting shall remain open for the next fourteen hours, with posting to resume thereafter. I hope you have a restful evening and take care, one and all.)
>>
>>3577634

>>Hear her out.
>>
>>3577668
Good night, BHOP. Thanks for running.
>>
>>3577657
(It's clear by her tone and what you can feel via her empathic field that she's not excluding herself from her efforts.)
>>
>>3577661
Well it was more of a bamboozle that she would be willing to be a good guy, even if she will die if it succeeds.

The thing i am mostly worried about is that West Prime put some thoughts into her head and manipulated her into thinking it was her own thoughts
>>
>>3577634
This feels like that girl that wanted to die, because her split bodies had gone out of control.

I think It's genuine. Even If It doesn't work, even If It's more complicated than It seems, It's worth a look. Even If It's not, we're still likely to get valuable Information out of It.

We shouldn't let It stop us from promptly heading to our objective though.
>>
>>3577676
I was thinking the same thing. Is It possible? Oh absolutely yes. I still think It's worth looking Into, nothing gained from a lead we never follow.
>>
>>3577680
We can at least hear her out and then add some research of our own upon the matter later on
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>>3577676
Yeah, Francine could be subverted. She's got her own implant, but how does she know it works? Gamma's notes suggest that the Wests don't have too much feedback from Prime, but we don't know that for sure. She could be following her programming. And even if this does kill off all of West's proxies, that doesn't guarantee it's not a plot of hers. Like she's got a multi-bodied foe that's such a problem for her that she's willing to sacrifice her own spares to ensure their death. It's a tricksy situation. We need to investigate on our own, gather information that we can personally verify.
>>
>>3577668
take care BHOP!

>>3577663
not at all honestly. she came from west, so she cant be trusted.

>>3577676
maybe not, the proxy connection does not seem to be that entirely. i just dont trust her to actually be betraying Wests goals like that, or not have her own ulterior motives if she is.

trusting West wont end well. ever. even if she somehow isnt a bad person, West Prime could easily suspect shes compromised and already have planned for this, meaning all trusting her will do is in in disaster for us. our best bet is to tell her to fuck off and find our own method, one not having to rely on trusting any part of West at all.
>>
finally got out of work. what did i miss and what is going on?
>>
>>3577689
I do not suggest we truly trust her

But we can take what she tells us and try to confirm it using indepentent sources and our own research
>>
>>3577707
We had a talk with Dorian, discussed the morality of wiping out the human capacity for evil, apologized to Lara, raised a few skills, then went on our way out of the forest and ran into Francine, the less-evil West clone who is now claiming to have severed her connection to the collective and wants our help in destroying it.
>>
>>3577707
Other have decided to waste time on Francine West who is recovering the braces from Gamma West and is now saying she can help us kill off all of Wests proxies.

And we should not listen to her.

>>3577708
Well, we already have heard her claim to kill all proxies at once. As far as im concerned thats enough to flip her the bird and move on to better more trustworthy sources.
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>>3577717
wow, that massive hateboner you have is draining all of that iq of yours.

I jest of course. but please just look at the situation the rationally please. your extreme belligerence is borderline paranoia. i would put a convincing case to debate about this but i am phone posting and eating dinner. i’ll properly debate this when i get back to my computer
>>
>>3577744
Oh no you are entirely right i am overlooking rationality here. But shes basically the antithesis of of everything i personally believe as well as having non morality based character traits that would irk me even on a nice character. Shes basically the perfect mix of everything i despise. thus if its not killing her, its not an appropriate action to take in regards to her. I could probably go into far too much detail about why i hate her.
>>
>>3577634
>>Hear her out.

I like Francine, one of the most interesting characters imo. Of course we have to be careful, as she may still be under the influence of West to some extent, but if she was lying we'd know due to the empathic field. Which means she is genuinely willing to sacrifice herself to help us stop West. I think that warrants at least modicum of warmth and courtesy, even if it's hard to be nice to someone that looks like a monster.

I kind of hope we can find a way to save Francine from her own plan, but I suppose a noble sacrifice would be a fitting end to her story.
>>
>>3577774
>have anything thats part of West survive.
if thats even a possibility then we are the farthest from the golden ending as possible.
>>
>>3577634
>Hear her out.
It doesn't hurt to listen
>>3577777
Checked
>>
>>3577802
>Is Lara still around? If so, I'd like to propose sending an Amara clone with her when she leaves so that (a) we can stay in touch, and (b) Amara gets to see her turn into a beautiful butterfly.
i can get behind that. im sure Lara would love the company too.

>does she not deserve the chance to prove that she is not West?
some people dont deserve redemption. West had clearly committed atrocities long before she made the proxies, and was clearly never a good person. Francine West still spawned and started out as that, and that bitch is still a part of her deep down. no part of West deserves to survive. if she wants to prove shes not West, she should've already put a gun to her own head and pulled the damn trigger.
>>
>>3577674
Is Lara still around? If so, I'd like to propose sending an Amara clone with her when she leaves so that (a) we can stay in touch, and (b) Amara gets to see her turn into a beautiful butterfly.

>>3577777
What are your thoughts on redemption? As far as I can tell, Francine hasn't personally committed any atrocities and is no more likely to do so than anyone else unless manipulated. The ways in which she is similar to West are neutral and, in the ways West is terrible, Francine seems to be decent. Why does she not deserve the chance to prove that she is not West?

Maybe a little silly, but using the logic of your post:
>have anything thats part of Sam survive.
If Shu surviving is a possibility then we are the farthest from the golden ending as possible.
?

>>3577808
Sorry for the bamboozle, wanted to add the last bit.
>>
>>3577811
>have anything thats part of Sam survive.
>If Shu surviving is a possibility then we are the farthest from the golden ending as possible.

Shu was confirmed to be a nigh blank slate in which Sam had little to no part of, and formed as her own self in basically an empty shell. any traces of Sam only started to come out later.

Francine West however, was confirmed to have started out and still be at her base a perfect copy of West. Unlike Shu, where Sam is literally a separate entity like any other Dream Daughter, Francine West still IS West, everything about her started out as West, and built off of being West, by her own admission. its not the same situation at all.
>>
>>3577755
Okay. I'm back on the computer.

So here's my case in arguing that we should hear her out. And you'll need to read it carefully because we're looking at the big picture here.

>West Prime is at the Cord. She's survived long enough that she's basically trying to optimize her build via Engine Rearrangements, Daughter Fusions, and experiments to make an optimal build that would allow her to ascend the Cord.
>West Prime sends out proxies made of mind-wiped daughters with uploaded copies of West Prime's memories, Personality, and M.O.
>West has made several proxies, most of them named after the Greek Alphabet: Alpha, beta, gamma, delta, epsilon, etc.
>One of West's proxies went rogue. As stated by Gamma's notes and Francine's testimony. Said proxy is going against the implied original task that West Prime has ordered them to enact.
>Rogue proxy (Francine) is going against West Prime's directive. Of her own volition. It's Francine's choice to rebel against herself. And she made the risky choice to go out and rebel against herself and aid Shu.
>Gamma has knowledge that Prime is slowly dying from Engine usage and instability from the fusion.

As to how Rogue proxy Francine went rogue. You have to consider the following:
>Francine was stationed at the Disassociated Ones's Bunker and is given the position of Head Medical Director.
>Francine is the one in charge of doing the Surgeries that turn a Daughter into a Digital Daughter in a Forge Body.
>UNLIKE the other Proxies whose directives are to assist Prime and do field work with cruel experimentations and dissections on how to best optimize West Prime, Rogue Francine's directive was to simply be a back up and busy herself with other work. Serving as back-up in case West Prime fails.
>So Here you have a proxy given a task to do nothing except sit at the sidelines and perform surgeries to help ailing daughters who want to digitize themselves into humanless digital copies of themselves while watching copies of herself do sick experiments on innocent daughters.
>Rogue Proxy Francine did the surgeries on November, doing the gradual transition into the November that we know today. At some point Francine snapped and had enough of November's desperation of wanting to digitize herself. It's highly implied that November pressing Francine for why Francine acted out of character is what caused November's exile. And November was a daughter who suffered from routine PTSD nightmares even after the Crucible. November would've likely went hunger-mad were it not for Francine's help. And Francine likely saved November from the horrible fate of full digitization.

>Francine helped us knowing fully that our hatred of her would likely end up killing her if we ever snapped.
>And now she's offering us crucial information that may be West and her own downfall knowing fully that her act of defiance will inevitably end with her getting killed by the other proxies.
>>
>>3577821
im fully aware she could very likely be genuine. i just dont care as shes still at her core a manifestation of West. where was she earlier during all of Wests other atrocities? when we needed a voice the DOs respected to listen to Mara and aid against the Spiral? no, fuck her, shes doesn't lift a finger til either its a convenient excuse to get us to trust her, or to dump the dirty work onto us. shes still West at her core, and West doesn't deserve sympathy or trust.
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>>3577634
>Hold out a Cord Jack for Francine to do a Neurological data transfer
>"Do a Data transfer. quieter and faster than talking aloud."
>Draw the Cont-ender and load a Herculean Fullbore, have it primed to shred Francine's spine just in case.
>"Make it quick. Any funny Neuromancy business and your fate will be the same as West Gamma by my family's hand or by your fellow proxies. Understand?"
>After the data transfer, take the Gamma Cannon from her.
>"Its for your safety. West keeps Conduit copies of herself inside the relics she makes. You purging this relic yourself would only rouse suspicion of your involvement and your eventual death by 'your' fellow proxies. You can process the trapped daughter inside after I've taken care of the Conduit West copy."
>"And as much as I despite the woman whose face you wear and whose cloth you are cut from, I'm glad you have a semblance of actual human morality."
>"Never ever lose that moral compass Francine. It's what makes us human in the dark, and is what separates you from your other selves."

>Via empathy channel: [And Thank you, For saving Heather Neeson from both the hunger and from complete digitization.]
>Have Amara spawn a stealth clone to tail Francine once we leave.
>>
>>3577928
ill vote to outright veto this.
its one thing to hear her out but she doesn't deserve a single kind word from us at all.

on a more neutral note, im not sure we can really use a Stealthed Amara right now. i mean, i guess we can just have Amara Prime stay under the cloak, but that sounds silly and we could potentially have need to see her at or during the Armory Raid, so relying on the clone being able to stay stealthed might not be a good idea. i mean, yeah its technically unlikely she would need to uncloak im just saying its possible and feels odd to force her to stay cloaked for who knows how long to tail her.
>>
>>3577933
>>3577928
plus i dont think BHOP ever confirmed if the Shawl is Teir 2 or below, so it might not even be possible.

we could sacrifice some Subversive Stalwarts i suppose as we do have infinite range, and i can see us being able to afford 5/30 swarmling slots to keep an eye on a threat that is a West.
>>
>>3577936
(The Shawl falls under the purview of Amara's recent upgrade, as it's Tier 2.)
>>
>>3577936
Bhop sorta confirmed it when >>3577318 asked these questions, and bhop simply said anon is correct on all accounted questions.
>>
>>3577946
>>3577947
fair enough, though my other points still do stand. she could be trailing her for quite some time aswell as her being seen could be necessary at times, and the clone can only use relic effects Prime is currently under.
>>
>>3577928
Compromise
Ill stop being a hypocrite and not giving Francine a chance, but remove the last separate part. We don't actually know for sure she was November's doctor for that, neither she nor November have actually outright said so, and I don't like jumping to conclusions like that, especially given the circumstances. i still feel she needs to earn something like that too, via proving she is genuine, before we just outright accept her like thanking her like that implies.

Also im not against sending an Amara to follow her like i said, im just still not sure having Amara Prime have to constantly be under the shawl is something we should do, especially being unsure how long she would be tailing Francine for. Way too many possibilities for her having to take the shawl off, especially if its over a decent length of time.

Man, we really need an actual stealth ability for Amara. Could've forged some Forge based Subversive Stalwarts i suppose, but i guess we also had no real target to send an Amara to/to follow at the time to make us think of that either. What is it some Anons say, hindsight? Heh.
>>
>>3577946
Hey Bhop, thinking about the interactions between the Shawl and Amara's Joyous Many lvl 2, wouldn't it be counter-productive for the shawl to affect all Amara clones including Amara prime if Amara can't control which clone the relic affects due to the wording?
So by that same logic, it would make lvl 2 more useful if Amara could toggle which clone gets the relic benefits on Amara's person.
>>3578231
>>
>>3578272
(Indeed, while she Shawl is the obvious choice and will become more viable as Joyous Many becomes stronger, it's more for combat applications at current. However, by level 5 your scenario will become a reality with the selectable Relic applications, so no worries.)
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>>3578272
Well, the issue at the moment isn't that she can't decide which clones get the effects, but that she has to be under the relics effects to apply them to clones, which makes things like applying the shawl to scout clones unreliable.
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>>3578285
Oh, a question i forgot to ask.
In the Hatter fight, we ended up with 'Knighted-Stalwarts'. What did that actually mean?
And i would've thought Chitinous Stalwarts would be a swarmling type, over a sub-class add-on like a nomling, but i guess thats wrong and it counts more like a sub-class to add to our swarmling types then? Or is this more of that weirdness Chitinous Stalwart has as you have mentioned before?
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>>3578351
So we had knighted Nomlings which we then used to created Platelings for our Chitinous Stalwart. The platelings retained the Knight-class tag, so our Chitinous Stalwart became a Knight-class Stalwart.
>>
>>3578351
(This >>3578695 is correct. You essentially discovered a way to bypass your Swarm limitations at current. It's not as bio-efficient as some if the later options, but it's doable.)
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>>3578695
Shouldn't it have been the other way around? Platelings retaining the Nomling tag? Plateling and Knightling are base classes, it's Nomling that's a modifier. Have we accidentally discovered a way to make specialized armor based on our swarmling classes? Like, can we convert a Rook into a Stalwart and make super-heavy armor, or something like that?
>>
>>3578738
(Indeed. A lot of abilities have in-tree interactions if they have a lot of moving parts, like for Hive Mistresses and Phantasmal Conduits, allowing them to access pseudo-features early if their users stumble across them.)
>>
>>3578740
Huh, neat. Definitely something to explore.
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>>3578695
well yes, that was pretty obvious.

>>3578734
>>3578740
ok, so i think im getting it. basically knighted-Stalwarts and similar shouldn't be possible directly, but we found a loophole?
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>>3578738
(To elaborate, "Plateling" is not necessarily a core Swarmling type, but rather a unique Augmentation-based Modifier. Thus, Knight, Bishop, and Rook Platelings are entirely possible due to Chitinous Stalwart's odd properties.)
>>
>>3578748
So Platelings are a modifier derived from Meg's abilities.
So then if Rooks were converted into platelings, how would 'Castling' work on a Rook-class Stalwart? Would it give Shu the uncannily broken ability to teleport swap with any one of her friends or her swarmlings?
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>>3578748
We should modify the reference document, then, it lists them as a base type.

But still, very interesting. Can Shu swap places with multiple Fortress Platelings so long as they're assembled into one suit? Because I've been having ideas of using Chitinous Stalwarts as our own clones, disguising Shu among a group of empty armors. It would be pretty Swarmling intensive, so not something to do yet, but also a very effective defense against any non-AoE attacks. Adding the ability to swap places with them would make it even harder to hit the real Shu.
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>>3578754
im not sure that would work sadly. though it may of changed, it at least used to be once Chitinous go into their armor stage they go dormant, meaning they wouldn't be able to move on their own once they are a suit of armor.
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>>3578754
>>3578757
More like it's a very cool version of "the ball in cup game". Multiple Rooks with human proportions covered by Platelings, Shu is hidden inside one of them. Enemies have to play "guess who"
>>
>>3578759
My bad, I was referring to the "Shell game" not ball in cup game.
>>3578757
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>>3577811
I'll support leaving an Amara clone with Lara.
>>
And I'm off to work a father's day brunch. Happy dad day.
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>>3578748
Wait a second, Knights buff nearby swarmlings and the buffs stack right? Bishops overcharge a single unit, and Rooks are tanks with a teleport feature.

If we use a Bishop as the base for Chitinous Stalwart will It still be able to enhance us while being our armor? Will Knights be able to buff the swarmling that makes up our armor?

To further go down the rabbit hole, we can turn the swarmlings that make up our armor Into a tree/based modification, so we could have Nomlings or Grapplings or what have you make up our armor In addition to them being a knight/rook etc.

This Is great, I'd like to see how making an armor based on a Nomling might Interact with then using our Guillotine for example, might the synergy further enhance It? Same with our other trees, can we create temporary synergy buffs by creating a specific swarmling to make up our armor and then using the skill tree the swarmling Is based on?

And we haven't even found our 'elite unit' type yet, we've still got a Queen (or King. Or both!) In the works most likely. Very exciting stuff to tinker with.
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>>3578907
Well, id imagine Shu is the 'king' as it was. shes the piece all the others have to protect otherwise the game is lost, and like a king she herself (when it comes to the hive by itself) has no innate strengths or abilities, just like the king.
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>>3578907
I figure it's probably the standard strength/speed/defense breakdown for armor types. Knight for offense-focused armor, Bishop for speed, Rook for defense. Which is kind of an interesting breakdown, because usually when you see this theme it's Knight for speed, Rook for both strength and defense, and Bishop for esoteric abilities. But our Bishops are designed for buffing speed in particular, so I'd expect them to be a speed boost. But maybe it will go more traditional, let the performance enhancing stimulants of the Bishop boost any abilities, and that will be our "caster" armor.
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>>3578919
I thought so too, but If since we have a hive I was wondering If we would be considered the 'Queen' piece.

Either way, looking through our swarmling sheet a Grappling Rook seems to be pretty ideal as an armor type. Grapplings have the property of buffing our Hundred Handed arms, so we could put that power to use either by swinging the contender (we should really pick up that multi-hit ability next time the Contender evolves) or by making a mass of arms, and abusing a little bit of synergy we've got for unarmed combat. Making an armor stealth capable also grants It spiked payloads of Baneling acid, now what If we had two dozen arms? Boosted by grappling, super-heavy Rook plating, boosted by all knights In the area, and top It off by giving us a Bishop to Increase our speed, reaction time, and critical chance/resistance, Shu's more capable In melee than I thought.
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>>3578934
Yeah, pur options are pretty high, however can we stack both a augment and class on Chitinous? Its already a loophole that BHOP said costs more to use to even out a class type on it, so it might still be limited to one or the other right now, just like at base we can still only do a two part combo of class+augment, its just i think its more like Chitinous can act as either, not take both.

We also dont fit the profile of a 'Queen' on regards to chess pieces and thus swarmling class types, however it could also be due to not picking the Queen option on the choice that one is locked out for us, but who knows.
>>
(Good Afternoon, Gentlemen. I just got home from an event, so I shall be getting settled in and writing soon. I hope you are having a pleasant Sunday, one and all.)
>>
>>3578947
We fit both the King and Queen pieces In a sense. We are without a doubt the most powerful piece on the field, with the most abilities, yet we aren't disposable. Yet while we have the Importance of the king, we aren't nearly as limited as that piece In It's uses.

It doesn't terribly matter, honestly. Though I think we will get a Queen type to use, It just won't be as all-powerful as the one we could have gotten. An elite unit compared to the other swarmling types, but not something that could solo an encounter like our other path. We'll see eventually anyway.

>>3578986
Good to see you OP, days going pretty alright.
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>>3579001
well, like i said, within the context of just Trypophilic Hive by itself we arent actually all that strong. but yeah, we'll see.

>>3578986
pleasant enough, hope your event was nice.
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>>3577928
I haven't read the discussion following this, however i wholeheartedly support it.
I don't understand the hateboner for Francine when its quite clearly established she is pretty separate from West prime and that she follows her own ideals.
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>>3579018
Well for most others from what i can tell, its more of the fact West can't be trusted and is pretty conniving, so they simply are weary of just how much personal control she may actually have, compared to subconsciously being influenced or contolled by West.

Being cautious and having her actually prove herself instead of taking her at her word is hardly unreasonable.
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>>3579031
I understand that, however when anons announce that due to their dislike of the Prime they are not willing to even consider the offer it is not hard to get an impression like mine.

Besides, i think the write in is cautious enough, we are outnumbering her, using a neuro link with backup, we are taking the relic and hell, we are literally pointing a gun at her the entire time, i think that's enough.
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>>3579059
Well, actually im the only one sperging out over it haha, the only thing i think other anons even maybe have agreed with me on is not outright thanking her for things we don't actually have confirmation she did, which of course im still against.

We still also never settled on the Amara stealth issue, as like i stated having Amara Prime constantly stealthed so the clone can be is a bit unreasonable.
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>>3579085
Theoretically we could make relics with the specific purpose of seeing Amara while she's cloaked and no other benefit, letting the network slowly thrive and expand, entirely while Invisible to most of the fleshscape.
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>>3579095
Maybe, but we don't have that now and are heading to a place we specifically need her for. Also that doesn't solve the issue of if someone else needs the shawl, if she needs to take it off, or it gets damaged.
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>>3579085
I agree that having Amara constantly stealthed is indeed unreasonable. For the time being, I think we should just stealth Amara when it makes sense to do so and level Joyous Many as fast as possible so that the giant invisible spy network can be sent out to gather Lexicon words and intel in the near future. >>3578285 suggests that only three levels into Joyous Many would be enough.
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>>3579101
Amara benefits the most from the shroud so it giving it to others should be rare, i do not know of any time other than forging where taking the shawl off could be useful, and if it gets damaged then after combat it will repair itself, worst case scenario a clone is seen while spying and needs to retreat. However, since Amara started using the shawl, i don't think it got damaged once.
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>>3579101
This was just supposed to be a partial solution to a future problem, not a fix-all. I wasn't suggesting we have Amara leave or anything anyway, I know we need her for the raid. If someone else needs the shawl though we make more shawls or cloaking relics, and It getting damaged Is always a concern but still It can likely be replaced. Much like West though, getting stronger generally reduces the risks of the clones getting destroyed, and they are always disposable. Ideally we keep as many alive as possible but If we lose some It's not a big deal.
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>>3579122
What about when Amara isn't on our team? And the fact it still could get damaged, and if it does, the entire clone network is exposed. Also she took it off to use the cannon and has been shown before to have to take it off at least partially or fully to do anything more complicated with her hands. And we have no idea what the inside of the Armory may involve. Its absurd to think its reasonble for her to always have the shawl on, and on top of that shes a kid who probably does not want to always have it on.

>>3579118
We'll have to see, for now its still probably better for any clones to be cautious, rather than rely on being cloaked.
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>>3579139
>>>3577928
>I haven't read the discussion following this, however i wholeheartedly support it.
well, yeah, but i think you are overlooking my concerns are alot more for the here and now, not what we can do in the future to fix the issues, as those dont fix them now when we need it.
>>
We might want to take further advantage of the clones' ability to copy Relics. Give Amara something like a disposable rocket launcher, spawn a platoon of clones, now we get a rocket salvo hitting the target. So long as she never fires her own personal shot, she would have functionally infinite ammo.
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>>3579158
...i have no idea what 4chan just did here. both that quote and second post link weren't even in the text box when i hit enter....

>>3579164
they dont copy the relic, only the effect Amara Prime is under, so they wouldnt get a rocket launcher themselves, only any say, strength boosts or accuracy boosts it would give her, which would then potentially be worthless on them due to lack of said rocket launcher.
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>>3577634

You wordlessly extend a jack from your arm, holding Francine's gaze without blinking. "Data transfer. Quieter and fast then talking aloud."

She nods, stepping forward to take it from you and freezing when she sees you unholster the Contender, a Fullbore already squirming into the barrel.

"Make it quick. Any funny Neuromancy business and your fate will be the same as West Gam..." You start to threaten, but you pause as she merely turns her back to you, kneeling down in silence before pulling her hair aside and exposing the pale skin of her neck.

After a second's hesitation, you slide the jack home at the base of her skull. A subtle shiver runs down the Doctor's spine as you hold the Contender steady at the back of her head. Your mind whirls with activity, snatches of memory filtering into your consciousness as the Proxy's plan takes shape. It's a simple thing, a virus spread among servers when they update, all at once. Requiring the use of a Sparagmos Engine and the sacrifice of a Proxy of similar strength to the ones currently active, the feedback of Francine's Neuromantic payload would be enough to simultaneously deal West Prime a staggering blow and reset every Proxy of hers to a blank, mindless slate.

You filter through the other surface-level thoughts of the woman before you, witnessing her speaking with a striking girl with ginger hair, begging her for a reprieve from the night terrors that plague her. You see her tinkering in her lab, her writing furiously, her bold strokes of the pen flying across the page as she details her thoughts, you see...yourself.

A single interaction, looping repeatedly. Your last words to her at your first meeting, when you called her by her desired name.

Withdrawing your jack you step away, Francine slowly rising from the ground and realizing what she held in her hands is no longer there. She turns to you, spying the ionic device in your grasp, your gun still held taught at your side.

"Its for your safety." You announce, watching her expression closely. "West keeps Conduit copies of herself inside the relics she makes. You purging this relic yourself would only rouse suspicion of your involvement and your eventual death by 'your' fellow proxies. You can process the trapped daughter inside after I've taken care of the Conduit West copy. Understood?"

"...That's fair." She relents with a curt nod and a small pang of appreciation across the empathic channel. "When you do, I'll be with the Disassociated Ones. I'll await your arrival with the Relic, then."

"And as much as I despite the woman whose face you wear and whose cloth you are cut from," You say, directing your allies to follow you as you begin moving past the Proxy. "I'm glad you have a semblance of actual human morality."

Her eyes widen at your words, the look of surprise the spreads across her face something you never thought you'd see on any iteration of West's.

(Continued)
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>>3579335

"Never, ever lose that moral compass Francine." You finish, giving her one last look before exiting the treeline. "It's what makes us human in the dark, and is what separates you from your other selves."

"I...yes." She stumbles over her words, watching you leave with wide eyes. "Yes, it is."

[And thank you, for saving Heather Neeson from both the hunger and digitization]

You don't see her reaction as you leave her in the darkness of Carroll's Woods.. At your silent command, Amara throws Shalev's Shawl over her head just before spawning a new clone, who's shortly trailing the good Doctor as you continue out of the accursed wood.

It doesn't take you as long as you expect to make it to the thick pillar that rests among countless others, identical to the countless black molars that dot the hilly Fleshscape on the western side of the bleak forest. You can't help but think of them as the blackened, rotting teeth of some great giant, its skull long since crumbled with only bits and pieces of itself to serve as a monument to its once great existence.

Jackie steps forwards, placing a hand on the obsidian surface, glancing around at the landscape before turning to you with a grin. "Yeah...yeah, this is it."

"Amara, can you sense anything?" You whisper, unnerved by the cold, stark silence that stretches across the landscape, filling you with the unease of a trespasser in a place you have no right to be.

"Um...I can tell there's a kind of elevator-thingy that could fit about four or five of us at a time, if we squished." She replies hesitantly from the empty air beside you. "It goes down really, really deep, though...and I can't tell what's at the bottom."

Alright.

How are you going to do this?

>>Choose your Relic loadout before you enter.

>>Choose to go in as a group or leave certain members on watch.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open until roughly 8:30AM tomorrow morning, Eastern time, after which my regular posting schedule shall resume. This weekend has been considerably less restful than I'd intended, so I shall more than likely be going to bed soon to prepare for the week ahead. I will however be present for a the next hour or two to address any questions you may have, and I do hope everyone is having a restful day. Take care one and all, and I look forward to resuming a normal posting schedule tomorrow and the next day before capping off the Vein.)
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>>3579343
well, new least favorite scene.

>Go as a Group, leave an two Amara Clones to watch the entrance.
>First set will be Shus team, as we agreed to take point, then the Midnight Crew comes down next.

Relic loadout;

Shu;
>Contender
>Uzi
>Ignition Gauntlets

Amara;
>Shawl
>Whistle(GRAH FOL CUNT)

Dorian;
>Sui Tormentis
>Gutgrab Daggers
>Cursas Alas

November;
>Hydra Heart

i think thats it...out of the relics we actually can justify using of course. keep in mind the Guardians Heart is in FuzzBuzz and tied to Amara, so cant be moved around, so mentioning it is kinda a moot point.

>>3579352
well, sorry to hear your weekend got so skewed, but i do hope it was at least filled with something you were able to enjoy. thank you for running what you could, despite your busy schedule, i appreciate it.
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>>3579343
Can Amara sense if there are any security systems in place? If we were to send down some of her clones and our swarmlings, would the Armory respond to that and trigger defenses that would further lock us out? Or is there no way to tell from up here?

>>3579352
Whooph. Sounds like you're having a rough time lately. My condolences, BHOP. Get some rest, you've earned it.
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>>3579377
(There's no way to tell from this distance.)
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>>3579385
So scouting ahead might not be viable. Darn.
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>>3579389
we could still send a clone or two and some swarmlings first, before we go down. though like stated its only fair Shu and Co go down first, as its what was agreed upon for aiding us in Relic creation.

maybe say, 2 Amaras+ 3 Stealth-Swarmlings first, then Shus group, then the Midnight Crew?
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>>3579401
We should also ask Karma about the nature of the Hexxane Armory. It's possible that Charon and MOTHER once had to find and use and Armory along their journey here.
We could also disguise the Pillar by making a hollow shell that has the same distinctive appearance of the pillar.
>>3579385
Is there a console that can be interacted or does it require Amara to say a Lexicon phrase to open the elevator door?

Is Dorian's halo still set to isolation mode or is it now on Free wifi mode now that we're out of the forest?

Can we ask Karma about Hexxane Armories?
And why the fuck does it remind me of Sheikah Shrines? I'm half expecting Hexxane Sentries and Hexxane Monks just meditating inside those Armories now...
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>>3579401
The Midnight Crew will need another Amara to accompany them. The elevator doors might not work unless they also have an Amara clone key with them.
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>>3579452
I don't think we need to disguise the pillar, as it sounded like it was indistinguishable from the others around it. Also thats alot of biomass/swarmlings to hide a giant pillar.

But sure, we can ask karma about it.

>>3579457
Well, sure maybe, but we would have an Amara on both sides of it by the point anyways so it should be ok.
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>>3579375
Before we head down, we should distribute some swarmlings. Same as the last dungeon delve, they make amazing lifelines. Jackie, Quinn and Keane each get a Plateling. Ace and Dorian get Bishops since they're already wearing armor. November gets a Grappling riding somewhere on her shoulder out of the way of any plasma vents, since they can't directly attach to her metal armor. Amara gets an entire Stalwart suit (does it cost less Swarmlings because she's tiny?) set to Subversive mode, so she still has some stealth if she has to take the Shawl off. And Shu remains in her current suit.
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>>3579472
Whew, thats 16 swarmlings. I get we have 30 slots but still.
Also i think a regular would do better for November, if we are just trying to have something on her, but actually BHOP has said we can stack armor before, so November can probably have Armor on her armor. I think its just we cant stack the same armor on itself, or that the platelings can conform to what shape they need pretty easily.
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>>3579500
Well we don't have to have our Platelings active do we? we can set them to dormant to free up slots.
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>>3579500
If I remember right it's that armor can stack on armor, but having more than one layer reduces mobility. Then again, November is almost entirely range-based anyway.
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>>3579503
I don't think thats how it works? They have always taken up slots before without being active, to the point we have been told before we would have to physically touch them in the past if on another person to reactivate them.

There's either a major benefit to having rhem active such as needing them active to use their counter measures, or they simply work under different rules due to being an augment swarmling type and said slots are their balancing drawback.
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>>3579507
November doesn't need the mobility... though she kinda doesn't need the armor too but it would still be the better option.
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>>3579452
(It merely requires that Amara speak to it in any tongue.)

(Dorian's Halo is still set to isolation mode.)

(You certainly may ask Karma, though she's going to give you a little tour, regardless.)
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>>3579375
>>3579343
right, amendments;
>Go as a Group, leave two Amaras to watch the outside.
>First, Ask Karma for any info on what we might expect inside.
>Second, spawn a Chestplate for Jackie, Quinn, Keane, and November, a Bishop for Dorian and Ace, a Subversive Suit for Amara, and a full Suit for Shu.
>next, send in two Amaras and 2 Subversive Swarmlings to get a look inside.
>Then Shus Group goes next, to uphold our word to take the front, have Dorian reset his Halo to standard mode.
>Lastly, the Midnight Crew goes in.

Relic loadout;

Shu;
>Contender
>Uzi
>Ignition Gauntlets

Amara;
>Shawl
>Whistle(GRAH FOL CUNT)

Dorian;
>Sui Tormentis
>Gutgrab Daggers
>Cursas Alas

November;
>Hydra Heart
>>
So hear me out. I had this crazy Idea.
What if we took November's Forge-body and modified it into power armor for Rath? have November and Rath fight together in tandem, Literally. My logic with this is that November's Forge Body runs on the heat energy of the Forge Cores, Rath's Ignition mode can double as a separate powersource that Recharges November's suit. November's Core (her leftover meat bits) is protected by Rath's body.
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>>3579624
i...dont like it. something about using November as nothing but a suit of armor does not sit well with me at all. im against it. theres also alot of merit to having both of them act independently too.
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>>3579629
Glad to know there are objections to the idea.
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>>3579636
i dont mean to be overly negative mind you, its a neat idea at its core, but something about it just doesn't sit well with me is all.
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>>3579624
Leaving aside the ethical implications, I don't think we really have the cybernetic expertise needed to do that. Besides, it's largely unnecessary. Rath can already power November's suit, their Dual Tech and the synergy between Sisters' Constellation and Heart of Fire mean that so long as they're fighting together November doesn't need to worry about fuel supply. And it mostly sacrifices Rath's own abilities to give her November's, if she's stuck inside November-armor, which means we're really down a party member. They can keep each other safe better by fighting together and taking down anything that would hurt the party before it can hit them. The real power of friendship is having someone with you to gang up on the other guy.
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>>3579646
it is a good question though, about if we can alter her form at all, outside of just getting better Cores. id imagine it must be at least slightly possible, as she would need to repair herself somehow. then again, she can heal from her Tank just by being hooked up, so im thinking whatever kinda Tech the DOs are building up isnt as separate from the fleshscape as we might be thinking.
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>>3579691
Part of that is that Francine convinced November not to go all the way cybernetic. So she's more connected to the fleshscape than most of the Disassociated. It may also be that she's an older model and they didn't have as refined cybernetics when she was made.

Also, a thought that just occurred to me, but does the tank get upgrades when November does? We haven't seen its stat block yet.
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>>3579737
id imagine it needs its own core to run off of, and do think such a thing was mentioned, but otherwise id imagine it gets at least a small power boost similar to her from higher level ones, though it could be more akin to battery life for it given its size.

also maybe, but shes still extremely cybernetic and said artificial parts being able to just repair themselves like a daughters Health is odd, older model or not.
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>>3579691
She doesn't really "heal" from her tank. Connecting herself to the Tank just recharges her energy. If she really needs to heal, her suit needs repairs.

>>3579588
Will Karma address the group as a whole when she talks and does the tour guide routine?

>>3579343
>"Hey Amara, maybe the door needs a magic password said by SkinTalkers. Something like "Open Sesame!" from 1000 Arabian Nights. Try it!~"
Let her indulge in the fantasy that her magic words have an effect.

Also some relic ideas
>HARBINGER'S HORN: The horn's heralds the coming of endless screams At Doom's Gate. The two note instrument of the Remembrance Whistle has been reinforced and outfitted with a twisting chromatic trumpet of blood, brass, and bone. Now allows Amara to store 4 words into the Instrument. On top of that the Horn allows Amara to use 2 additional abilities with the relic. CHAIN CRESCENDO and THE BROWN NOTE.
CHAIN CRESCENDO (concentration): Sacrificing 100% Health and 3 Actions to start (80% hp and 2 actions to maintain), Amara can spew forth a blistering fast-paced solo improvisation using her lexicon words into an variable word/note string that stacks an ever-escalating series of Lexicon phrases whose effects multiply with each phrase successfully completed. Amara can chain a 4-word string in the initial round Chain Crescendo starts, but is then limited to a three-word string in subsequent rounds. Ending the Improv (without disruption) will unleash the chained word phrases all at once. If Chain Crescendo gets interrupted, Amara is instead stunned for One round multiplied by the number of word strings she completed during the Crescendo before she was interrupted.
THE BROWN NOTE (Concentration): Expend all actions and 100/% HP for the current round (80% and 1 Act to maintain) to blow out a crippling wave of the most horrible sound ever played. All daughters and Amalgams capable of hearing and without hearing protection (barring the instrument player) are affected with the following status debuff: Deafness (until the Brown Note ends), Disrupted (Neuromantic actions and Concentration actions have severe disadvantage and +30% backlash), Weakness (attacks decreased by 40% for this combat), Slow-witted (lose 1 action for this combat), confusion (actions have +30% chance of backfiring), and soiled (movement range is decreased to 1 zone barring special movement options, lasts until new change of pants).
Relic Tier: 3-4

>NANOCELLS: The Koku Serum, Refined and upgraded to work on Daughters. A Syringe filled with glowing amber fluid. It holds 1-3 doses. Each dose lasts until combat ceases. The Syringe cannot be refilled through conventional means unless placed in the fires of a Forge Core. Upon injection, the daughter receives a greatly increased boost in defense granting her a Fibro-Calcite Skin that grants her high resistances against slashing, blunt, piercing, and electrical damage. Relic Tier: 2-3. (Flesh Artisan 100%, Fibromancer 50%, Calcite Armory 50%). SON.
>>
>>3579744
>She doesn't really "heal" from her tank. Connecting herself to the Tank just recharges her energy. If she really needs to heal, her suit needs repairs.
I don't think that's true, it is still her health too, which is connected to physical damage, and her abilities surrounding it still imply it is actual health she can heal, not just energy reserves, meaning she can mend her wounds, which is odd as she is mostly mechanical. Maybe its an odd effect dealing with the fact we do technically have metals in our bodies anyways.
>>
>>3579767
I still think that Crucible biomass is really some magical sci-fi nanoassembler colony that only mimics the appearance of flesh for aesthetic reasons. If it can assemble calcium structures fast enough to make bone spikes erupt from the ground, it should be able to assemble iron structures, too. Maybe not as fast, since iron is less reactive than calcium, but fast enough. No reason that biomass can't repair her steel armor.
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>>3579792
well i mean it could just be biological life thats just advanced so far its limits are pretty minimal. on individual scales, some complex and microscopic life can do some pretty insane things, and our bodies can already do in a way alot of things the fleshscape allows, just on a slower and smaller scale. its still 'biological', its just advanced to a point we cant fully understand anymore.
>>
>>3579792
>>3579767
You know...Something just occurred to me. I noticed omething very strange about the fleshscape.
When the Quest started, the skin-covered sky was orange red, and seemed to be set in perpetual Sunset. But two-three weeks later in earth time, the sky turns dark purple to the color of twilight like the colors you see at dusk on a clear sky and the sun is below the horizon. So what the fuck happened to Earth's Rotation? If it was normal Earth-time Rotation, the sky would go through normal sunrise-midday-sunset-nighttime cycle within 24 hours despite the giant membrane film covering the sky and filtering the sunlight. But something's awfully off. It takes 2-3 weeks for the planet to rotate enough to go from sunset to duskfall. So what the fuck happened to our planet?
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>>3579823
id imagine a giant space flesh monster swallowing your planet whole and holding it in a layer of skin while it drills into its core to rebirth itself from the planets life energy and all the life upon it kinda both fucks up its rotation aswell as gives said space monster some control over said rotation. or well, actually maybe not the second part but certainly the first id imagine.
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>>3579807
At that point there really isn't any difference. Cells are nanomachines, just messy and disordered ones. Cells refined to have a mechanical level of control and precision would be indistinguishable from artificial nanites. No matter their origin, they wouldn't look anything like what we think of as biology. The Crucible is intentionally using this appearance.

>>3579823
Either the additional mass of the Crucible messed with our rotation, or it's entirely artificial. Maybe the membrane is entirely opaque, and it's just lighting up its underside in sequence.
>>
>>3579744
(Karma will be speaking to you directly, but you may extend her narration to your allies via your Empathic Field, if you wish.)
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>>3580778
Please extend the narration to everyone else. Its only fair that they should be in the loop.
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>>3580778
>>3580780
Indeed, everyone should hear, though she can still keep private anything she feels she should i suppose, so long as its not life threatening information.
>>
>>3580778
Sounds good to me. Though it occurs to me that November doesn't know about Karma. "Shu, why is your gun talking, and should I be concerned that it does or that it does or that my guns don't?"
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>>3580793
>November gets jealous our guns have a personality.
that would be both funny and strangely cute. which is unnerving as it doesn't fit the image of her at all.
>>
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>>3579343

“Open sesame!” Amara stage-whispers just as you’re about to ask her to open the Armory, and after a moment’s pause the pillar splits, a gap opening before you and widening just enough to admit a select few. You take a moment to armor yourself and others, building up a small arsenal of swarmlings before sending two Amara-clones and a pair of scoutlings down into the dark. A few moments later, you and yours enter the elevator when it returns, the scouts having confirmed no movement in the depths far below.

“Karma, talk to me.” You say, the Contender growing warm as you tighten your grasp when the lift shudders, carrying you into the abyss. “What kind of resistance can we expect when we enter?”

“Well…I must admit some confusion regarding the concept of a 'Hexane Armory'.” Karma begins hesitantly, her words reaching your allies across the empathic field. “Weapons were an outmoded concept to my Master’s people. By their very empathic nature, to inflict a wound against another was tantamount to wounding oneself and everyone one cared about, as well.”

“What about you?” You ask, puzzled. “Charon made you, didn’t they?”

“True…though my Master specifically crafted me for the Crucible.” Karma explains. “The act of creating a weapon, let alone amassing them would be considered…antithetical to the Hexane, at best. Heretical, at worst.”

“Are…are you talking to your gun?” November intones behind you.

“I…yeah. It’s a long story.”

“One I’d be interested in hearing.” She replies, her gauntlet’s plates sliding back to reveal the barrel of her shotgun as she casts an inscrutable look at it.

“…Do you…do you think I could talk to mine?” She wonders aloud, and you see Dorian give her an amused look.

“I talk to the ground, and Shu talks to her guns! You can talk to anything you want!” Amara adds helpfully, and November just re-sheathes her weapon, straightening her posture with an air of embarrassment.

“Anyway.” You breathe, keeping your voice low. “So what do you think this place is, Karma? Was Jackie’s contact duped or leading them on?”

“I do not believe so, no.” She says, and you can practically feel the gears turning in the construct’s mind. “I’m detecting a large amount of unique items below, in addition to a number of odd Relic signatures that I’ll have to get closer to ascertain. If this is well and truly an armory, then it must have been crafted during the Crucible itself. However, to put such a thing so deep, it’s almost as if this was the home of a delegate or person of great renown...quite unfit for an arsenal, in this one’s opinion.”

(Continued)
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>>3580844

Slowly, the lift comes to a stop, the doors sliding open to a dim and dusty corridor of faded bronze walls, curious lines and hexagonal tiles embedded along the darkened walls. The Contender pulses fitfully at your side as you become aware that something’s occurred to Karma, and the sound of a gasp echoes in your mind.

“Master Shu, I…I am quite familiar with this home.” She says slowly, her gentle voice ringing clear in your mind like the chime of a bell. “If Marrow Dragoon’s dwelling is where you now have your base of operations…”

She pauses, as if she can’t quite believe what she’s seeing.

“…then this place served a similar purpose for Mother and Charon during their Crucible. The being you know as Mother…this was her home.”

You and your team freeze, the weapon pulsing at your side as you swallow hard.

“Should I be worried?” You ask, and it’s a moment before Karma replies.

“No…no, there’s nothing active here anymore, aside from some of their Relics.” Karma replies. “It is exceedingly dim, however. Would you be so kind as to touch my barrel to the wall, Master Shu?”

You oblige, and the moment the jagged barrel makes contact with the smooth metal the wall’s etched lines spring to life, a pale golden glow springing to life along the ornate corridor before you. The hall’s designs are alien yet curiously familiar, almost art-deco in their construction.

“It was quite in fashion among the Hexane upper-class shortly before the Crucible.” Karma explains haughtily, picking up on the unvoiced question in your mind. “My Creator and I though it somewhat gaudy, but we were hardly the sort to consider high fashion.”

“What’s the layout?” You ask, and you feel a pulse from Karma, almost like a leaping of her heart.

“Ah, to the left are the three bedrooms, two of the owners, and one for the guest. My previous Master stayed in the latter during her time here.” Karma explains animatedly as you slowly walk down the length of the corridor. “Up ahead is the entertainment area, and beyond that is where the Relics are stored. To the right you shall find the conference area, and just beyond that is the Memorial.”

“Memorial?” You ask, and you hear a chuckle behind you.

“Hrng, Colonel…” Dorian growls behind you, and you turn back to him with a cocked eyebrow as November stifles a static-laced laugh.

“The Memorial is a sort of…tomb?” Karma replies, struggling to put the concept into words. “It’s a place to reflect on those that have passed on, to remember those that we can feel no longer.”

You halt, weighing where to lead your team from here, in the house of Mother.

>>Proceed towards the Armory. You see no sense in dwelling here longer than you have to.

>>Take a little time to explore the more personal areas of the estate with Karma’s guidance, starting with the bedrooms.

>>Explore the conference and Memorial areas.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open for the next two hours.)
>>
>>3580847
>>Proceed towards the Armory. You see no sense in dwelling here longer than you have to.
while it IS Mothers house, Charon also lived here, and at one point was close to Mother, so it would feel kinda awkward to dig through their personal stuff(bedrooms), or well, you know, a goddamned tomb basically. its probably safe to assume alot of stuff in both was from before Mother went off the deep end too.

though i am interested in learning more about the Hexxane Culture ill admit, even on that note id think the Conference room and Memorial would lend to that better than the bedrooms id think.
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>>3580847
Hey Bhop, has everyone (Shu's family and the Midnight Crew) down here?
>Wait for Jackie's group to arrive. They would want to admire the alien crib.

>>3580844
oh November...I never knew her Gun-nuttery extended to that level.
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>>3580853
This place might have Mother's Diary. I wanna find that diary.
>>
>>3580855
(Jackie and the Crew will be arriving at the start of the next update, so don't feel you have to wait for them.)
>>
>>3580856
odd thing to assume someone has. nor is it something im interested in at all. i really dont think it will help us deal with her, both emotionally or in regards to the Crucible.

>>3580855
i mean, are you saying you wouldn't want a talking gun companion?

>>3580858
awesome.
>>
>>3580847
>>Take a little time to explore the more personal areas of the estate with Karma’s guidance, starting with the bedrooms.
>>Write-In
>Make sure to take pictures with Gina's phone. Document everything we can.

I want context. Anything that helps us better understand Mother is an advantage. Even if it's no more than an embarrassing stuffed toy on her bed, that still gives us something to use against her. Charon...well, sorry for invading your privacy, but if it helps us stop Mother I think you won't mind.

I wonder why the door wasn't locked, though? Being accessible only to Skintalkers isn't a security mechanism, not when Skintalkers are a decently common thing to find. Who left the bunker's actual security mechanisms disarmed? Charon, maybe? Can't tell people about Mother's past, but can make it easy for people to find it themselves?
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>>3580861
>decently common
Skintalkers are the rarest class by nature, on top of mother pushing for a playstyle heavily against teamwork, which if she got her way would probably make then nearly nonexistent. that, and id imagine she isnt exactly in a position to go and change the things mechanics at the moment.
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>>3580847
>>Take a little time to explore the more personal areas of the estate with Karma’s guidance, starting with the bedrooms.
>"Karma, does the Hexxane keep Diaries or a memoir of their personal thoughts? With such a culture that focused on open empathy and open mindedness, then what about those who like to keep their thoughts to themselves?"
>>3580861
It also brings to question about what practices their culture placed in high priority. The Hexxane apparently placed high emphasis on open empathy and open mindedness, so the thought of putting in defenses to ward people out might've been frowned upon.
Also, the context clues of the architecture and the Who, the house is for (MOTHER) implies that Mother was from a high-borne culture. Charon must've been either working class or middle class if she used the guest room.
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>>3580866
>>3580861
The class rarity might be different between crucibles. You could have a past Crucible where Calcite Armorers being as rare as our current cycle rare SkinTalkers.
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>>3580847
>Take a little time to explore the more personal areas of the estate with Karma’s guidance, starting with the bedrooms.
>Make sure to take pictures with Gina's phone. Document everything we can.
>"Karma, does the Hexxane keep Diaries or a memoir of their personal thoughts? With such a culture that focused on open empathy and open mindedness, then what about those who like to keep their thoughts to themselves?"

If Mother was talking to Isabelle, could she have directed her here to grab something and leave?
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>>3580872
well yeah, but id imagine Phantasmal and perhaps Neuromantic like classes were more their style, given what we know about them. plus given how utterly they ended up failing at actually using the crucible for what they wanted, it seems all their empathy and closeness amounted to nothing in the end, meaning skintalkers would still end up in the same situation in theirs as ours, still making them a rarer class, and thus less likely something for her to worry about.
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>>3580867
I'd assume there was at least a lock. Maybe not defenses (though I'd expect those to be installed after the Crucible started), but enhanced empathy doesn't mean that the Hexane didn't want privacy every so often. The fact that they had personal rooms at all indicates that.

>>3580872
Yeah, but for a paranoid girl like Mother I don't think she'd be willing to gamble on rarity. "Oh, what are the odds that there will be another Skintalker around to open up my secret lair?" doesn't sound like something I'd expect her to say.
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>>3580883
you're forgetting Mother did not start out exactly as the person she is now. the fact she has locks at all is a security measure, and its quite possible she was not as paranoid originally, aswell as like Maras estate, it may of originally been in a similar place where finding it at all in the first place would be difficult.
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>>3580886
But she doesn't have locks. She has a door that anyone with her class can open up. Unless she was the sole Skintalker of the Hexane Crucible, it doesn't feel very secure. Hey, there's a thought, maybe she was unique? I'm getting kind of a chosen one vibe from Mother, now. High-status, had an appointed guardian, entrusted with the goal of the Hexane, somehow apart from their culture given that she was able to betray them, felt it was her purpose to make a perfect world...let's throw some unique powers in on top of that, why not? Maybe that's why Mother was able to betray the Hexane despite their empathic bonds, because her position as the Chosen One made her a taboo thing that no one ever got close to.
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>>3580879
Isabelle doesn't have the appropriate class abilities to unlock the place.
>>3580852
Hey Bhop, did we leave 2 stealthed Amara sentries at the Elevator entrance?

>>3580860
Weapons win battles, information wins wars.

>>3580847
Adding to my vote:
>Have Amara leave 2 stealthed Clones to keep post on the overworld Elevator entrance.
>Have Amara let you know if there are any third parties (aside from that are approaching the above-ground Elevator entrance.

>>3580895
That is plausible. High-class usually entails that the owner has a powerful position or connections with the governing body of Hexxane Society.
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>>3580895
thats...still a lock. just one with more than one key. it still keeps out a majority of people, and even then, only those who guess correctly get it open besides her.

also that makes no sense as it is still heavily implied they still had to fight to be the ones to climb the cord, and being willing to do that to a 'chosen one' would make no sense. maybe she saw herself that way, but i dont think her species did, nor did Charon from what we have seen.
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>>3580901
>Weapons win battles, information wins wars.
but wasting time loses wars too. its not that easy, you dont win a war with sticks either, technology is just as important as info. the info here i highly doubt will help us, and thus is only wasting time we know wasting results in terrible things happening.
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>>3580901
(You did leave a pair of Amaras up there, yes.)
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>>3580902
A lock with keys randomly distributed among a populace is not a reliable lock. It doesn't matter that it keeps out the majority of people, you want it to keep out everyone. Would you be satisfied if I made a bunch of copies of your house key, then gave them out to random people? Well, maybe, because those people don't have any reason to come after you and discover which house is yours. But if you were making a lot of enemies with your ruthless behavior in a planet-wide death game, I think you'd be less comfortable with it.

As for Mother still having to fight to get to the Cord, that could be a matter of there being multiple cultures on the Cord, each with their own Chosen One. Or rebel groups not in on this plan, who are out for themselves. And of course just Hunger-mad Daughters. Still plenty of foes for the Chosen One to defeat on their way to ascend the tower.

>>3580909
Would you be satisfied with a "let's split up, gang!"? November, Dorian and Shu each go a separate way, Amara Prime going with Shu and clones going with Dorian and November so they're all still connected. November as the soldier checks out the armory, Dorian as the artist checks out the Memorial, Shu as the Godhunter studies her prey by looking at the bedrooms.
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>>3580916
Have one of the Amara clones raid the Entertainment area. There might be some neat Hexxane toys that the party can play with during down time.
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>>3580916
Actually, wait, splitting up doesn't work because we need Karma to give commentary. We'd get a lot less information that way. Never mind.
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>>3580916
i dont see any real evidence behind the chosen one nonsense. really doesn't sound like something Charon would leave out either.

also again, she originally probably didn't have any direct enemies to worry about. obviously id not like that, but its still something unexpected and rare most wouldn't think is how you unlock a place. i mean, you can say what you want, but keep in mind, that IS all she had as her lock, its the reality of the situation, so clearly she thought it was enough.

and on the whole shebang, heres something to keep in mind; the Midnight Crew have no reason to be interested in anything but the Armory, and we have no right to tell them to hold off on it, so if we dont go there first, at least accept anything good they take we want we willingly forfeited to them.
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>>3580926
(You have sizable range for the channel, so no one would be excluded if you decided to split up.)
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>>3580927
>i mean, you can say what you want, but keep in mind, that IS all she had as her lock, its the reality of the situation, so clearly she thought it was enough.
But she didn't. Karma told us everything was powered down, with the context of that question being defenses and alarm systems. That she said "they're not active" and not "there are none" means that Mother had other defenses here and they've just been shut down. I'm wondering why they were shut down. Charon seems like a likely culprit.

>and on the whole shebang, heres something to keep in mind; the Midnight Crew have no reason to be interested in anything but the Armory, and we have no right to tell them to hold off on it, so if we dont go there first, at least accept anything good they take we want we willingly forfeited to them.
I'm fine with that. I think we're friendly enough with them by now that if there's anything of critical importance to us (like some dreamscape manipulation tool that could help us rescue Gina) they'd be willing to give it up.

Besides, they'll get here at the next update. Which means we have one update we can spend on exploring before they show up and we have to look at the Armory. We can get there ahead of them and make it look like we were trying to poach valuable things, or we could get there at the same time and look over the haul together and establish our camaraderie. So there's no point to rushing to the Armory. Let's take the one update we have to look around and look around.

>>3580934
Karma wouldn't be able to see what November and Dorian were looking at, though, so we'd still get less information without Karma being able to point out specific details for us to focus on. Might be worth it, though, if we're really pressed for time. I don't think we are, but WorkAnon disagrees.
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>>3580934
Good. I want to clean Mother's house of everything of worth.
We could have Dorian and November transmit their questions via Neuro Network instead.
>>3580916
We should give Dorian Gina's Smartphone so he can document the Memorial room. He's an artist after all, so he should have good experience with working a Camera and getting good camera pictures.
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>>3580939
i think BHOP meant more they arrive at the start of the next update, not the end. and it really depends id say, the Midnight Crew have given up alot, im sure they have their limits, and probably wont be happy with us just saying 'nope, most useful thing here? nah, ours, you can have the scraps though!"
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>>3580948
I doubt they're going to agree with us on what the most important thing is, though. They have no Neuromancy in their party, for one thing, so if there's a Neuromantic Relic that would help us it shouldn't be of interest to them. For another, their goals are very different from ours, so they won't necessarily want Relics that do the same things we'd want. Wandering murderhobos need different tools than a party aiming to take down a specific threat.
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>>3580954
maybe but its still a risk, and one were taking over in my opinion worthless endevours.
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>>3580954
Jackie has a Neuromancy skill. She used said skill to peruse our past via eye contact.
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>>3580965
That's her Fool's Choice power. Julia has a similar ability as her Fool's Choice, it's still not Neuromancy.
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>>3580968
thats making wild assumptions yet again based off no actual data on the person themselves.
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>>3580970
No, actually it's me misremembering. I thought she said it was from her Fool's Choice. She didn't, she actually did say it was Neuromancy. Went and checked. Don't care, though. Still voting to look at the personal rooms. I'm willing to take the risk that our new friends will be reasonable.
>>
>>3580968
>>3580970
not all Fools choices are the same, in fact, many have been wildly different. why would a fools choice based around longtime friends give the ability to see their past?
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>>3580977
well, honestly at this point it would be entirely reasonable for them to ask for first pick and a bigger portion.
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>>3580997
And I'm fine with that, because I trust them to be reasonable enough that if there's something really important that we need we could bargain for it.
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>>3580997
And I'm fine with that. They gave us a huge share of Spiraling fear. 45 level up points of essences, 9 levels per party member in our family and it was enough to bring some of our party members up to their their level individually. We should return the favor by letting them have a good portion of the Armory relics. And besides, they're only interested in the relics. We can compensate ourselves with information that will help us fight the Crucible better. It's Mother's former house after all. And Mother has some very interesting skeletons in her closet.
>>
>>3581001
id argue if it does end up important to them, friendship or not they have earned not bargaining for it. and just because you think they are more murderhobo like doesnt mean thats all they care about.

>>3581008
oh no, like i said, they deserve it. its just still going to be all the more a hit if we arent there to at least discuss it with them.
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>>3581021
Thinking about it, given that we're taking point, if we're not there when they come down they probably wouldn't feel comfortable just heading straight to their goal. They'd be worried something got us. We should head back to meet them.
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>>3581072
Well id think regardless of what we do we would wait for them to get down first, or so is what i wanted to do and thought was implied.
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>>3580847

The lift doors slide open behind you, revealing the Midnight Crew as they step into the hall to marvel at the architecture. A quick burst of information across the empathic channel is enough to inform them of the place’s general layout and deactivated security, and they proceed cautiously towards the armory after Jackie gives you an appreciative nod. You gently hand Dorian Gina’s phone, and he stalks off to the Memorial while November takes Amara by the hand to the entertainment area, leaving the bedrooms to you.

"Karma, do the Hexane keep Diaries or memoirs of their personal thoughts?” You ask, shaking your hair out after your helm slides back into your armor. “With a culture focused on empathy and open mindedness, then what about those who like to keep their thoughts to themselves?"

“Such exclusivity was quite frowned upon, though by no means impossible.” Karma replies as you walk into the master bedroom. It’s a space roughly the size of your bedroom back at Mara’s place, a large dresser with a tall mirror next to a narrow bed covered in some sort of worn, aged material, but it’s the item that’s perched on the edge of the surface that catches your attention.

“Good to know.” You say, carefully picking up the collection of impossibly thin metallic plates. “Is this what I think it is?”

“Indeed…it’s Mother’s writings, I recall that much.” Karma confirms, though her voice has a certain amount of disbelief in it. “Seems she had nothing to hide, at the end of all things. That certainly changed.”

You’re tempted to ask her more, but you can’t ignore the way your instincts are making your Ravenous Maw roil with nervous energy.

“Something about this doesn’t sit right with me.” You say, tucking the diary into your pocket where it settles against Uzu’s notebook.

“Their way of life?” Karma offers, somewhat confused.

“Their security.” You reply, thumb caressing the trigger. “Karma, run a diagnostic on this place. Can you see if any security measures were ever on, and when they were deactivated?”

Silence on her end, then a pang of alarm.

“We are the only ones currently present…but the security system was deactivated less than an hour ago.” Karma replies, her voice wary.

“Shu, we weren’t the first ones here.” November says, her voice clearly coming across the empathic channel without any of her tell-tale static. “There’s a breach in the entertainment area due to some biomass, looks like it broke the wall at some point…there’s a tunnel to somewhere.”

You curse under your breath, glancing at your tense reflection in the surface of the cold, bronze-tinted mirror.

It blinks.

You don’t.

>>Smash the mirror.

>>Drag your allies and the Midnight Crew out of this place. This has all the makings of a trap.

>>You need to know who was in here, and you trust Karma’s assessment. Explore further, but with extreme caution.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Voting will be open for the next two hours, Gentlemen. Apologies for the delay, as phone issues prevented me from posting for the past half hour.)
>>
>>3581129
>>You need to know who was in here, and you trust Karma’s assessment. Explore further, but with extreme caution.

Huh. If we hadn't stopped to kill Hatter and then heal Lara, we would have stumbled upon it at the same time as the intruder. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing that we didn't. Here's hoping it's not B'Ni or West. Come on, ladies, let someone else be a villain.

Anyways, I don't think it's a trap. They wouldn't have left such an obvious breach, otherwise. Or at least, not one we would have gotten far enough to see. The place to put a trap for us would be at the lift. No, I think this was someone else who wanted something from the bunker. Whether it was an important Relic, or some information Mother left behind, I'm not sure. Move carefully and methodically and look for any place something could have been disturbed.
>>
>>3581129
>Point the Contender, loaded with a BB and a Fullbore, at the mirror.
>Send word over the Empathic Channel of what you witnessed and that you might not be alone.
>"dont suppose hexxane mirrors just blink on their own Karma?"
>obviously, defend yourself if necessary, otherwise ask if someone is there, and see if you cant slip a Neuromancy cord stealthily into the mirror to see if its a construct, effect, or someone or something else.
>>
>>3581138
dude the mirror blinked out of alignment with us. even if its just old Hexxane tech or the person who visited using something to spy on us, you dont ignore that shit.
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>>3581140
Or it's just Sam messing with us. Remember when we heard Jackie say her name instead of Shu's? Could just be her trying to assert some influence, when I see a reflection act contrary to the real person my assumption is going to be that it's the alternate persona trying to assert influence . Still, I suppose it can't hurt to jack into the mirror. Actually, something that might work would be to try to establish an Exsanguinating Leash. If it's not a Daughter or Amalgam, the Leash won't form. And if it does...well, then we've already got the enemy weakened and since Exsanguinating Leash conveys contact-based abilities we've got a Neuromantic link ready to go and paralyze them.
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>>3581149
im not so sure on the Sam thing. plus, didn't the Sam part happen in the forest? regardless, ignoring it is asking for trouble in my opinion. also the leash wont work if its a construct, ability, or odd relic, while the Neuro cord still will.
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>>3581149
>>3581140
MOTHER FUCKER, WE'RE DEALING WITH A HOUSE FULL OF MIMICS and the bronze mirror just woke up!
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>>3581157
god i hope not. lets see what this is first, before we go insane and just start aimlessly shooting all the furniture.
>>
>>3581157
>>3581158
(Body Horror Quest:Prop Hunt Edition)
>>
>>3581160
well that would imply more that theres a daughter in here disguising herself as furniture to avoid getting killed, not that its all gonna come alive and try and eat us.

though im not a fan of either happening.
>>
>>3581155
The Sam part happened just outside the forest. Maybe close enough for it to affect us, though. Then again, we didn't actually suffer any mind-fucks while we were in it, the worst we got was hearing the birds. I'm thinking that place was way underlevel for the quality of senses and resistances our party had.

Fair on it being a defensive Relic, though. I'm pretty sure Exsanguinating Leash would hit a construct, but it definitely wouldn't a Relic. So yeah, fine, let's stab it with a neurojack.

>>3581157
Now, that's just jumping to conclusions. You don't know what, if any, mimics are in the area. Let's stay calm and check this mirror for possible mimic status, then we'll proceed calmly and get whatever we can out of this before making a swift withdrawal.

>>3581160
Okay, I played Prey, I know how this works. Any time we see two identical things next to each other, one of them is something to smash. Usually the one that's tipped over. November, you got a wrench in your tool kit?
>>
>>3581160
>>3581165
>>3581166
(Ha, I kid. Though that does give me ideas...)

>>3581166
(You were tremendously over leveled for most of what the Forest had to offer, yes.)
>>
>>3581166
hrm, still dont think its Sam, but fair point. i mean, to be fair, even if it was Sam messing with us, id think at this point if shes breaking out that much then its time to deal with it anyways.

>>3581174
yeah, i think the Spiral made sure of that haha.
>>
Okay, then, revised plan. How does this sound?

>>3581129
>>Write-In
>Alert rest of team of possible intruder over empathic field. Warn them to watch for traps or possible disguised combatants.
>Load Contender with a BB and Fullbore. With gun in hand, insert neurojack into mirror, to test for activity.
>If mirror presents danger, shoot it. If it persists after being shot, call in backup.
>Otherwise, continue to carefully sweep the bunker, using Swarmlings and Amara clones for thoroughness and disposable bodies to fall on any booby trap (Also, resolve to punch Sam the next time you're in the dreamscape).
>Be careful, be safe, and don't get greedy. If it looks like we have to evacuate quickly, drop anything that can't fit in our pockets and get out of there.
>Use combined Fear To Tread and Heaven's Drill to excavate a hole out, if need be.
>>
>>3581158
Explain to me how a Bronze mirror would have your reflection blink at you. There is no magic going on, there is only Bio-manipulation. You can use flesh artisanry to warp your flesh into having a fake bronze texture and project reflections via camouflage.
>>3581160
>>3581174
and there's Bhop's cheeky confirmation. The house is full of mimics or daughters that camouflaged themselves as furniture.

>>3581129
>Load up the Karma gun, Look at it very hard with your halo.
>Back away slowly, point your gun at the mirror, keep your eye on it before you bolt and close the door to the master bedroom.
>[Karma is the Security system back on right now as of this moment? What sort of Security systems are we dealing with?]
>[Where's the Core console to this place?]
>[Everyone, We're not the only thieves trying to rob this house, we have an opposing team trying to compete with us. Either the security system has been reactivated, or we're dealing with Flesh Artisan Camouflage disguised as Props to the house.]
>Have Amara spawn a pair of clones to watch the Tunnel.
>>
>>3581218
dude i already said to see what the mirror is first....all im saying is it might not be a threat we need to shoot.
>>
>>3581229
also it could be a screen of some sort instead of an actual mirror.
>>
>>3581218
>Explain to me how a Bronze mirror would have your reflection blink at you.
There's the aforementioned Sam explanation. Another possibility is a Phantasmal Conduit-based trap or ability that increases paranoia and causes minor hallucinations for the paranoia to play on. Maybe the intruder isn't physically shapeshifted into an object, but hiding normally and messing with our perceptions from concealment.

>and there's Bhop's cheeky confirmation. The house is full of mimics or daughters that camouflaged themselves as furniture.
And there's >>3581174 BHOP saying "just kidding".
>>
>>3581239
>>3581218
(I was just kidding about the mimics, actually. My apologies for any unecessary paranoia I was responsible for.)
>>
>>3581245
twas a good bamboozle you pulled. But de-sync'd mirrors are a good indication of security shenanigans or mimics.

>>3581218
Amending my vote:
>You need to know who was in here, and you trust Karma’s assessment. Explore further, but with extreme caution.
>[Karma is the Security system back on right now as of this moment? What sort of Security systems are we dealing with? Because the Bronze Mirror de-synchronized with what it's reflecting. And where's the Control Console?]
>[Everyone, we're not the only thieves trying to rob this house, keep your wits about you and watch for any signs of Neuromancy or Flesh Artisan trickery. Group up.]
Dorian's alone and probably our weakest link.
>Have Amara spawn 3 clones: 2 to watch the tunnel, one to group up with Dorian.
>>
>>3581245
well, you may of been joking on the mimics BHOP, but making a mirror blink at us out of sync kinda is a big reasons to be paranoid.

>>3581261
mimics or not, i still want to see whats up with the mirror, as it could be any number of other important things. ignoring it is bound to bite our ass.
>>
>>3581261
We should have the Amaras sweep the area for disguised traps, too. Neurotic Halo level 4 gives a perception boost that makes hidden and camouflaged objects pretty obvious. Really, should be a hint that this wasn't a mimic. Maybe a trapped object, but if it was a mimic Shu would know because she has Halo level 4 too.

>>3581274
I really think the most likely candidate is Sam. She's upset we didn't take her invitation to look at her memories last time we're in the Dreamscape, and now she's lashing out. We need to give her a punch in the snout to establish superiority next time we're sleeping.
>>
>>3581129
Dealing with the mirror:
This >>3581139
except don't put a cord into the mirror, just assess it with the field. I think it's a hallucination caused by some kind of Neuromantic of Conduit effect down here but in case it isn't popping a cord in and risking Neuromantic feedback is not wise.

Also this >>3581261.
Shu and Dorian are both alone at the moment and Amara's clones can make more clones, so there's no reason anyone should be alone, have Amara send backup. We should probably regroup in the entertainment area (near a potential exit and near the Crew) but I'm too curious about the memorial and bedrooms to vote for that.
>>
>>3581287
our empathic field wont do anything if its not a daughter directly, and we have the halo to defend us from feedback.
>>
>>3581285
it could be Sam, ill admit that, and yeah i agree, but like i said making sure its not something else is probably the better idea.
>>
>>3581129
>>Write-In
>Broadcast to all allies: "Someone else hit this place about an hour before us. Looks like a smash-and-grab, they wouldn't have left an obvious breaching point if this was meant as a trap. But they may have left smaller traps to take out anyone else who tried to raid this place, so stay on guard. Move carefully and cautiously, keep an eye out for any out of place objects that might be hiding a bomb or construct."
>Get Amara to spawn several clones to watch the lift entrance and accompany Dorian and Shu.
>Slowly, with Contender ready to fire, stick a neurojack into the mirror. Just in case it's an active device.
>If it is, smash.
>Get directions from Karma on where to find the control console for the bunker. Go there, access it, make sure any of the bunker's own defenses are down.
>Afterwards, continue to carefully search bunker for any useful materiel or information.
>>
>>3581129
>>3581218
Amending my vote...again.
>Look into the mirror: "Is that you Sam? Not now please. Hold on, I'll get you something so that we can talk more easily besides the dreamscape."
>Look for a Hand mirror in the dresser. "Got a hand-mirror for you, Sam. If you want to talk, just nudge my hand towards this hand mirror."
>You need to know who was in here, and you trust Karma’s assessment. Explore further, but with extreme caution.
This is my last finalized vote. I've got to go to work now.
>>
>>3581308
Oh, god, that sounds awful. No giving ground to Sam, please. Any interactions will be on our terms, if we're going to talk it will be after we slam our way into her part of the dreamscape.
>>
>>3581308
>>3581312
yeah, even if it is just same, thats doesn't mean we talk to her.
>>
>>3581312
>>3581316
Fine....
revising the vote back to the previous version.
We still need to address Sam at some point. Stonewalling her just doesn't seem right.
>>3581308
>>3581129
>You need to know who was in here, and you trust Karma’s assessment. Explore further, but with extreme caution.
>>
>>3581320
i disagree, stonewalling her is exactly the right thing to do.

also we still dont even know its Sam so we still need to make sure we know what it was.
>>
>>3581320
>We still need to address Sam at some point. Stonewalling her just doesn't seem right.
Sure. We will at the next dreamscape session. But let's not let her distract us when we're in the middle of a raid, that's what she wants. If she's going to get our attention, it's going to be when there's nothing else for her to distract us from, and when we can afford to spend a little time punching her in the face.
>>
>>3581331
honestly id like to delete her from our head if at all possible, but finding a friendly Dreamscape Phantasmal ally to do that for us sounds like a side mission not worth going out of our way for. but if we do get the chance, we should chunk her out.
>>
>>3581347
Sure. But in the meantime, let's punch her in the snout so she'll knock it off with the mind games bullshit. Maybe after raising Neurotic Halo one more level, though, just so we can have the advantage on dreamscape combat.
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>>3581353
im down with that. its also the dreamscape, so we can spawn like a thousand arms that all boost the punch to make it really hurt.
now the real worry, does Sam have no ability, or one of our non picked choices as hers, or our own core as hers aswell? im positive we could take her regardless, i just want to know how much she can fight back.
>>
>>3581356
It is a good question. I think she either has no ability since she was never actually a Daughter, a different ability at level one since she counted as a Daughter eaten by Shu before she could actually do anything, or (in the worst case scenario) all of Shu's powers. I hope it's not all of Shu's powers.
>>
(Writing now, Gentlemen.)
>>
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>>3581129

[Karma?] You say slowly, keeping your unblinking gaze on the mirror before you. [Is the Security system back on right now as of this moment, and if so then what sort of Security systems are we dealing with? Because the Bronze Mirror de-synchronized with me]

“It’s currently inactive, Master Shu.” Karma replies after a second’s hesitation. “Regarding the mirror…I’m not sure. Much of Hexane technology is empathic in its own right, so perhaps it’s reacting to you in some way?”

With your hand grasped firmly on the full-loaded Contender, you reach out your other hand and send a jack snaking out of a gap in your armor. It sliding into the mirror’s surface as you wait with bated breath, finding…

…nothing.

It’s perfectly normal, a simple sheet of hammered metal.

[Everyone, we're not the only thieves trying to rob this house] You announce, still wary of your reflection. [Keep your wits about you and watch for any signs of Neuromancy or Flesh Artisan trickery. Amara, help everyone group up]

Casting one last glance at the mirror before you leave Mother’s old room, you make your way over to where you last saw Dorian, finding him in advance of Amara’s clone who’s now hot on your heels. The narrow hall opens up into a space far larger than the humble entrance suggested, and you find your painter standing before a series of ten statues arranged in a semi-circular configuration, each one set in a recessed alcove in the golden walls. Every figure is distinctly humanoid, their bare skin instead resembling your own chitinous armor, faces angular and sharp…pointedly, proudly Hexane.

“Ah, Miss Shu!” Dorian declares happily, turning at your arrival in the vast space. “I do believe at least one of the previous inhabitants of this home was a rather impressive artist in their own right.”

“That’d be Charon, yeah.” You affirm, looking among the ten figures that stand proudly in a semi-circle around the two of you. Small tendrils of biomass have crept in through the walls, their encroachment evident in the hair-line cracks that splinter along the statues’ joints.

“I wish Lady Julia was here to see this.” Dorian sighs, looking down at the metallic journal in his hands. “There’s some incredible things in here, Shu. Notes on the past Crucible, sketches, artistic thoughts…it’s fantastic.”

“…Wait, are you telling me you can read that?” You ask, gesturing at the Hexane script on the open page before him.

“Oh…I suppose I can, yes. Aren’t you able to?” He replies incredulously, flipping the pages as you shake your head. “Curious…I suppose a week or so sleeping above a Sparagmos Engine didn’t just give me artistic inspiration.”

>>Inspect the statues closer, and see if you can find out who they were.

>>Ask what Charon’s journal contains, letting Dorian and Amara be your interpreters.

>>Regroup and see what was taken, if you can.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, due to prep-work for a short vacation I and my phone's insistence on not letting me update in a timely fashion, I shall be pausing here for the evening and resuming tomorrow morning at 9:00AM Eastern time. Posting shall continue most of tomorrow and the Vein will likely come to a close in the afternoon or early evening. Thank you so much for bearing with me through technical difficulties, and I hope you are having a good Monday.)
>>
>>3581579
>>Regroup and see what was taken, if you can.
ok, NOW if ever, is a good time to see what the last thief actually left us, and what might've gotten taken. lord knows im expecting the Armory to have a list of what it held...and of course an item we absolutely need is gonna be missing. technically we have no right to say the last thief did anything wrong, but that doesn't mean we wont need to find them and at least barter with them. we shall see i suppose, but even with Amaras ability to talk to the Fleshscape id imagine the trails gonna run cold if we do need to follow it and cant get to it soon.

>>3581587
oof, well glad to see you getting some time to yourself soon, hope that goes well. heh, this just has not been your Vein though, has it?
>>
>>3581597
(Ha, it really hasn't, and I'm terribly sorry to everyone present for that. I prefer for Veins to run a little smoother than this one certainly has, so I appreciate your kindness and understanding more than I can express.)
>>
>>3581608
its no problem, it does suck but its not your fault, lifes like that sometimes. thank you for trying to work through it and continue to run such an amazing game, even if its not been working out the best,, i appreciate the commitment, and honesty about whats been going on., and as stated hope that vacation goes well fro you.
>>
>>3581579
>>Inspect the statues closer, and see if you can find out who they were.
Hexane heroes? People important to Mother and Charon? Who knows. But I want to get a look at them before they fall apart. If we don't have time to take an in-depth look then snap some quick pictures and move on.

I really like the idea that our chitin armor gives our appearance a Hexane cast. It's just one more item on the "Shu is all of Mother's mistakes back to haunt her" list. I'm calling it now: By the time our Corruption is done we're going to look almost exactly like a Hexane. In fact, I'm going to double down and say that we won't just look like a Hexane, we'll specifically have a strong resemblance to Mother's pre-ascension appearance. It fits really well with the narrative parallels between Sam and Mother and how they relate to Shu, if Shu starts out looking like the one person she's a nobler reflection of and end looking like the other person she's a nobler reflection of.

>>3581587
Have fun on your vacation, BHOP. I'm glad you're getting some time off to relax. Thanks for running.

>>3581597
>technically we have no right to say the last thief did anything wrong
Unless it turns out it was B'Ni. Then we have yet another reason to hound her to the ends of the Earth. But it's hopefully not B'Ni. Where would she have gotten a burrowing power this fast?
>>
>>3581680
id be odd for it to be Isabelle, as the direction she was said to be heading didn't sound like it was gonna take her near this place, though ill admit with only a mental map its hard to tell. id also say Isabelle entering Mothers old home and getting Hexxane tech sounds like something Gina would tell us about.

im gonna guess a mole/miner daughter saw the place and decided to get some goodies, and either got lucky finding the place on accident, or whoever gave the Midnight Crew their info handed it to someone else for one reason or another.

also if were gonna waste time we really dont have, id prefer to at least waste it on Charons notes. but i really do think we shouldn't waste time here. we already know exactly how this works; we pick something else over checking to see what was taken, and potentially hunting down the thief, it is very very likely we wont be able to catch them at all. id like to think nothing we need was taken, but we have NEVER had luck like that, and certainly not recently.
plus BHOP likes making choices matter and adding in plot hooks, so you know she took something that will peak our interest.
>>
>>3581697
>id be odd for it to be Isabelle
Oh, definitely agreed. Like I said, how would she even have gotten down here? But, you know how it is with B'Ni, never have hope. Never have despair, either, because BHOP likes to swing that back the other way too. Just expect the worst without getting stressed out over it.

Still, yeah, it's probably someone else. Like you said, some Daughter who specializes in delving deep into the Fleshscape. There's probably good eating down here, plenty of burrowing Amalgams to stave the Hunger off.

>also if were gonna waste time we really dont have, id prefer to at least waste it on Charons notes.
No, that's a mistake, because we can bring the journal with us. Translate that later, along with Mother's. Read through Professor Uzu's notes, too, make it one big infodump party. If you're really worried about wasting time, then like I said let's just snap a few pictures before heading to the Armory.
>>
>>3581715
im fine with a few snap shots as we head to the Armory. Julia would probably appreciate getting to look them over.

hrm....actually....while i still think we need to head to the Armor ourselves...why not send out a few basic/Recursive to take mental notes of the Statues details and any name plates, aswell as go over the statue and get a mental image of their shape? maybe combine some Neuromancy and Halo aspects into them, or use the soundlings to get a sonar picture of them too? we can also see through our Swarmlings, and even do it in just one eye id imagine like we sorta could before.

its...odd, sure, but in retrospect we have more than one body in a way ourselves to control to do things with, and then with a fully graphed out mental picture of them with multiple different ways of building said mental picture, we can then later have Dorian and Julia jack in with us, combine all that data into a mental photo realistic copy, and go over them in more detail once we are not so tight on time. plus it will probably give Julia the ability to appreciate the Art better that way too.

Dorian can even have some Paintlings 'mold' their shape and use his own Neuromancy and Halo to properly save the mold in his mind, to re-create their shape later.

...or does this all sound like crazy talk?
>>
>>3581737
No, it sounds quite reasonable to me. Another thing we could do is just get an Amara to snap the pictures while we search the Armory. I don't think we've quite gotten used to the idea of having infinite child labor yet. It's a bit of a weird mental shift to make. Need someone to do a task that doesn't involve anything complex or trained? Get an Amara.
>>
>>3581754
haha, yeah, thankfully Amara is hyperactive and probably more than loves doing such Tasks. still though, a picture only goes so far, so we can do both.

...is infinite child labor wrong when its clones and shes happy to do it?

>>3581579
>>3581597
amending Vote to;

>Go to the Armory. See if we cant figure out what was Stolen. See if there is a Log of what was in here and is missing. Use a Swarm of Neuro-Recursives to help log all the Items while we do this.
>See if Amaras Skintalker abilities cant reveal what was stolen, and more about who did it.
>Have some Neuro-Recursives and Sonar-Recurvives team up with Dorian, his Neuromancy, his Paintlings, and the Halos abilities to get as perfect a mental image built and logged of the statues as possible, and stored away inside our heads for later viewing, and/or as a 3-D image file inside the Phone.
>Have an Amara clone also takes some snap shots of the statues too, just for the sake of backups.

also i have to say, suddenly having these ideas for the utility of these Abilities outside of combat is making me feel odd about never thinking up how useful they could be in past situations too.
>>
>>3581776
Eh, it takes some mental re-jiggering to figure out all the uses for superpowers. And it's not like we haven't gotten good use out of powers before, just sub-optimal. It's still a learning process.
>>
>>3581783
true, just feels odd i suppose to have it hit so suddenly. learning process indeed.
>>
Something I think we should keep in mind, Gentlemen.

In the past, whenever trickery was afoot and something was subtly wrong, it was up to us to look for clues and realize the truth behind the situation.

When Penny Dreadful, the doppelganger, impersonated Julia to try and get close to us, she was lacking Julia's stutter and the image in the post was also off.

In addition, when we were still connected to Isabelle and were headed to the Disassociated Ones to break the connection, her thoughts were made apparent only through the file names of the posted images.

Right now, we're in a situation that, to me, seems as though it could go upside down at any moment. Our team is scattered, we're in a vault with compromised security, and we have no idea who else could be in this place with us. I'm just saying, we need to tread very, very carefully and keep our eyes peeled for any subtle clues that BHOP is putting into their posts.
>>
>>3581937
Yes, but we've also improved our empathic sense considerably since Penny Dreadful, and acquired a Neurotic Halo. The clues should be much more obvious now, to the point I'd expect Shu to see through weaker ruses without our input. And we're moving to un-scatter our group, with the exception of remote platforms like the Amara clones or our Swarmlings. I'm not too worried. Most that could happen, I think, is someone slipping a false Amara clone in. So we should check in on her every so often with a question of "hey, sweetie, where are all your clones right now?" to confirm they're where they should be. But otherwise I think we're currently fine.
>>
>>3581937
i mean, i get what you mean, but i also didnt really forget that, just didnt see much of things to do.

the four potential threats we MIGHT have any clues to are;
>Mirror eyes
seems to be all Shu or something we cannot detect, meaning nothing we can deal with.

>Biomass on the Statues
maybe they will spring to life? dunno, but i cant see any justification IC to do anything about that, only potential paranoia OOC we cant be outright sure about.

>The Security System
unless we can somehow get control of it ourselves, we just have to hope no one reactivates it and Karma is right that its not something to worry about. i cant see much of a way to avoid it besides leaving too.

>Someone still being here or returning
might tie into the security system bit, but i doubt they would return and even if they do, i cant see us not being able to deal with it or get to anyone in time to aid them.

theres things to be concerned about sure, but things we cant really do anything about or are probably not an actual issue, compared to the issue we do know is at hand, aka, seeing whats left in the Armory and if theres anything stolen we need to rush to get back.

>>3581973
keep in mind, Amara can remotely over any distance gather info from her Clones, so if ones a fake id think she could tell pretty easily and quickly, and with Amara Prime sticking close to someone always, we can learn about that pretty quickly too.
>>
Back from work.
>Small tendrils of biomass have crept in through the walls, their encroachment evident in the hair-line cracks that splinter along the statues’ joints.


>>3581579
>Spawn a Jackling and have it Terraform the Tunnel Entrance where the Biomass is creeping in so that you're in control of the encroaching Biomass, as well as sealing off the entrance for your own use.
Okay. Now I'm getting Paranoid about the Alien Kudzu. The fact that the Biomass is creeping in in real-time is worrying me a LOT. It's good to have a second exit, but said exit is one that we aren't in control of.
>Have Dorian save a 3D rendering data of the statues by using a combination of Paintling Cast Moulds, Camera work, and Neurotic Halo imaging.
>"Dorian, Can you create a Cast mold on the Statues with your Paintlings and Gina's Camera? I want you to get the best 3D-render of each statue so we can recreate it at home for study later...of course, also to collaborate with Julia in recreating such a sculpture. Can you do that please?"
>[Karma, where's the Core Console to this place? If the house has been broken in an hour ago, but the security system deactivated, then the only place where the security can be deactivated is the Control Console.]
>Regroup and see what was taken.
>>
>>3582140
sealing off that exit may not be a good idea. if after we check the Armory and log whats in it we find something we cant let the thief have was taken, that tunnels our best bet to actually figure out where they went.

you're also under-utilizing our abilities there i feel, no reason to numb down what i had planned out, we can easily afford to do all of it, and especially once we get to the armory where having Recursives help log the relics would save alot of time.

I do understand your worries about the security system, but again, i think if it was gonna spring back to life, it already would've, and we DO on a technicality have a time limit on the Armory. shes got at least an hour lead on us, which first off means shes probably not near nor a threat, but also means if we are gonna follow her, we gotta get on it as soon as possible.
>>
>>3582147
>shes got at least an hour lead on us
It may be less. She probably had to take some time to search through the Armory for what she wanted. If she even knew what was here to begin with and didn't just see "hey, cool treasure trove" and start hauling artifacts off one by one, starting with the shiniest. Maybe we'll catch her on her way back to load up with some more.
>>
>>3582151
well, true enough, but if she has flown to coop its still a strong matter of any time given to let her get further away is not what we need if we are gonna go after her.
>>
>>3581579
>>3581776
Supporting.
>>
>>3581985
I wonder if this place has security cameras? We can review the footage or initiate an in-house Inventory check where the Hexxane house does a house diagnostic on what was taken.
>>
>>3582180
Oh, duh, Skintalking! Can't believe I didn't think of it earlier. This is a base built by a Skintalker, Amara should be able to just ask it "hey, what did the person who broke through your walls look like?".
>>
>>3582180
it would be a very weird thing to have the contents of your armory accessible from a main household console, especially if its accessible by anyone. dunno about the cameras, but we can still figure this stuff out in person id imagine pretty easily, and if there is a log of any kind, id think it would at least be accessible from the Armory for sure.
>>
>>3582186
well, that may not be the case, as the place was built before their crucible even happened, so it may not even be terraformable. would actually make it a really defensible home base too.

also i already have Amara asking for info anyways, just in case, so no worries.
>>
So, on the topic of non-combat utility, any other ideas come to mind? What i got so far is;

>That one Anons idea to use Tread as a minor power source.
>Using Rath as a campfire/heat source on cold nights. She likes to snuggle so she should be ok with a snuggle pile.
>Charging electronics(relic and old world tech) with Accumulated Charge.
>Rath and Shu duel tech to make a projector Swarmling to play movies dug up with the Halo for movie night.
>Paintlings for paint, obviously.
>Fuzzbuzz furniture has been done before.
>Using Rath as a mobile forge for repairs at least id imagine is possible.
>Dorian, Shu, and Amara triple Tech to purify someone's bloodstream?(kinda not non-combat tho.)
>Julia can make clothes, as has been shown.
>Rath and Shu team up to get pure iron out of blood, for use in unique metal based relics?

And honestly thats all thats come to mind so far.
>>
>>3582284
>Rath and Shu team up to get pure iron out of blood, for use in unique metal based relics?
That would be horribly inefficient. There's about four grams of iron in an entire adult male human's body. Even if Crucible biomass is richer in minerals than real human flesh is, you'd still have to process so much to get useful amounts. Let's just grab some of the mining equipment still lying around the Town of Rust. Like that crane we collapsed on the Wanderer. Plenty of iron left in there.
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>>3582296
Im not so sure. For one thing, with the amount of Biomass able to to held in a single person, on top of being able to regenerate it, it's actually still plentiful. This is also on top of the fact, albeit somewhat class specific, we have still witnessed the exact makeup of specific biomass be pretty malleable. While hardly getting blood more iron than not, id imagine we could get some pretty iron rich blood, far beyond just an iron rich diet level. Id also potentially not need and be better to not be technically pure iron, but basically fleshscape iron, rhus being able to be used in Relics. I think theres alot of possiblity to do it and to use it, given what we have seen as possible. Better than using the rusted out decayed stuff in the town for sure id think personally.
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>>3582305
I think you could get biomass that imitated the properties iron, like how one of Rath's potential augments she could have gotten from Johanna would have given her bronze armor on her arms. But if we're talking genuine iron you'd still have to process a lot of biomass to get usable amounts. Better to just figure out how to make pseudo-iron at a Forge.
>>
>>3582333
maybe. the idea mostly came up because i realized we had not seen any more technological or metal Relics, which should both be entirely feasible and id imagine could be quite potent and useful. granted the fleshscapes biomass is quite malleable in its uses, but actual Metal can simply do some things flesh, no matter how advanced, wont ever really be able to do as well.
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>>3582284
>Use the Amara Clones as a mobile Telephone network for those who don't have a Neuromantic Thoughtform/Empathetic communications system.
>Having Amara become Actual Girl Scouts and survey the land and provide Cartography feedback. while Shu Dorian, and Julia make a Diorama scale of an Interactive Map of the places explored back in Home base.
>Julia and Dorian do 3D Sculpting/Rendering, or become a walking Photocopier/Printer. Julia provides the sheets of celluose/skin and Dorian does the ink job.
>Grapplings for Massages.
>Hundred Handed Grapplehooks
>FuzzBuzz towels and Swarmling Fans.
>As mentioned in this thread: Making a Car out of Bugs and meat that function as a car (or in the Crew's case, a Amphibious Blood Boat/Car).
>Terraforming Furniture.
>Ripped off Hundred Handed/Phantom Limbs and 1 boil to create Torches.
>Hair cuts.
If we have time I think we really should Process Biomass extract freshwater out of it and make a Lake or a pool. So we can drink fresh water and make a swimming pool. Just because, and also because Natural Freshwater is such a fucking rarity that any sane daughter that comes across it will gain sanity points for sure.
Also, I really want to make some Random blank boards and benches with a map of the current surroundings (including the obligatory "You are Here" pin.) in random spots in the fleshscape like pic related.

>>3582296
The thing with Iron is that the raw refined Iron we usually see in real life is is rusted over and bonded with oxygen to make Iron Oxide in nature. When we process Iron ore, we burn away the oxygen to get raw iron by heating the iron oxide up to a high enough temperature and for a long enough time that the iron itself separates from the Oxygen. And even then, we would have to hammer it and manipulate it while the iron is hot to get our desired shape.
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>>3582362
do...we even need hair cuts? we still age normally at our base, so i guess that means we still grow, including hair i guess, but then again Hair is dead cells and i dont think we really have those anymore, so unless its just another episode of 'the crucible copies this bodily function just because' it might be under our control to some degree...or not at all and our current hair length counts as part of our body and heals itself when cut.

also i like the freshwater idea, but the issue is im thinking the fleshscape would gobble it up in the wild. best case we make a pool in the penthouse.

also on the Iron, that brings up some questions about how we even forge things in the first place. its kinda implied the forge might get hot enough to work iron in, though that may also depend on the Tier level.
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>>3582371
It's the little things that help a daughter maintain sanity. Hair cuts and is good for fashion.
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>>3582371
theres some Unnatural Predator Scaly-foot Gastropod Daughter out there selling Bio-Iron i bet.
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>>3582375
well, yes thats true, but im more asking if that is possible/how it works, not if it has any purpose.
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>>3582362
>FuzzBuzz towels and Swarmling Fans.
I think post-Crucible, FuzzBuzz is going to be a major brand. FuzzBuzz toys will replace the teddy bear, and FuzzBuzz-brand fluff will be the leader in the textiles market.

>If we have time I think we really should Process Biomass extract freshwater out of it and make a Lake or a pool. So we can drink fresh water and make a swimming pool. Just because, and also because Natural Freshwater is such a fucking rarity that any sane daughter that comes across it will gain sanity points for sure.
I can dig it. Shouldn't be too hard to set up a still at the Lair. Use the Core Console to make some pipes, run waste heat from the Forge to boil water, and we're good. Side-effects may be a build-up of ichorous residue, though. Gross.

>The thing with Iron is that the raw refined Iron we usually see in real life is is rusted over and bonded with oxygen to make Iron Oxide in nature. When we process Iron ore, we burn away the oxygen to get raw iron by heating the iron oxide up to a high enough temperature and for a long enough time that the iron itself separates from the Oxygen. And even then, we would have to hammer it and manipulate it while the iron is hot to get our desired shape.
Yes, and? I'm familiar with the materials science, pure iron wouldn't be that great either. We'd need to reproduce the cementation process, which means either incredibly fine control over Crucible Cell-driven mechanosynthesis or just using high temperatures again. Of the two, we have easier access to heat thanks to Forges and Rath. Although, level up Forgemistress' Fingers enough and she may be able to use biomass to make refined metal. She can study how her aunt's armor repairs itself for inspiration.
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>>3582388
while i dont want to use her a science project, November and how her Tech works might give us alot of neat options if we learn how it works. while im not sure about the DOs as a whole, her mechanical parts still clearly have some Crucible connections, or can imitate them really damn well, and that could be extremely useful.

the only drawback i can see though is, we might have to integrate tech into people to get effects, meaning we would have to be careful how much we are willing to sacrifice towards that, both morally, mechanically(game wise), and physically.

we could also go check out what the DOs leave behind once they fuck off too, no way they take everything with them, but i have a suspicion once they blast off it'll be like vultures circling on on fresh road kill over on their mountain.
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>>3581579

"Dorian, could you use your paintlings and Gina's camera to record all of this, as much as you can? If Amara can help, she'll be happy to. Isn't that right?" You urge, and the Amara at your side nods to Dorian enthusiastically as swarmlings pour forth from your back, intent on cataloging everything in reach. You give your friends a forced smile just before you turn on your heel, intent on getting to the bottom of what's happened here. Hanging a right as you exit the Memorial, a few seconds of walking leads you to the entertainment area, which resembles a conventional lounge more than anything else save for the large pulsing hole of biomass marring the wall to your left.

"Where's the Crew?" You ask, and November jerks her rusted talon of a thumb back towards a small door that leads further back, deeper into Mother's old home.

"Amara, can you do me a favor?" You say when three of her trot up to you. "I need to know if the person that came in here took anything and how they got in. Can you ask this place what happened?"

She immediately plops down on the floor and begins whispering to the ground, a process that continues for several long moments as her incomprehensible questions cause the floor at you feet to thrum with equally arcane answers. The more she asks, the more furrowed her brow becomes, and when she finally finishes she seems more confused than anything.

"Amara, what is it? Are you okay?"

"Um...yeah." She murmurs, looking up at you with a mixture of worry and puzzlement in her two-tone eyes. "I know what happened...do you wanna see?"

"Show me...show all of us" You say as you offer a jack, and she promptly plugs it into the palm of her hand at the same moment your empathic field flares to include everyone in on the replay.

You see the room as it is now, without the gaping wound in the far wall. It's a scene that's rectified after a few seconds of stillness as the hole opens up, and a slender figure steps forth. Slight. Dark-haired. Unfortunately familiar.

Emerald eyes.

"B'ni." You breathe, watching her stride to the armory and re-emerge moments later with an object held in each hand, thought the memory's too grainy and ill-defined to make them out. You can, however, see her expression; defiance alight in her glittering eyes, her face the one of a girl focused on a singular, all-consuming goal, heedless of reason...

...or treachery.

(Continued)
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>>3582945

"The fuck does this bitch think she is?!" Jackie growls as the vision fades, throwing her hands up in the air in her fury. "And who the fuck does Mother think she is to go and play goddamn favorites with this scrawny thievin' bitch?! She opened a fuckin' wall for her, and I bet she jacked with the security, too!"

"This...'bunny' person. Who is she?" November asks calmly, looking among you and your allies.

"Trouble." Dorian answers flatly, his cold blue eye staring warily at the hole.

"Amara, what were those two Relics she took?" You question, tuning out the conversation around you and turning to the small girl at your side as she struggles to answer.

"The first one's...kind of a brain...transfer...thing?" Amara says, wholly uncertain. "I think it switches your mind for someone else's, but Mother didn't tell B'ni that..."

"What did she tell her?" You press, your throat dry.

"Mother said it's a Skintalker power enhancer."

"The fuck would she need that for?" Jackie demands, whirling around mid-pace.

"Amara, what was the other thing?" You continue, and Amara looks far more assured as she answers while you ignore Jackie's tirade.

"A key!" Amara replies. "To another Hexagon place, further west!"

"Another armory?" November offers, but Amara just shakes her head.

"Nope! Mother told B'ni that's where the body is, and that's what she going there for!"

You sit on a nearby bench, your fingers steepled as your friends watch you in silence, your mind turning over as you try and piece together what's transpiring. Mother, Isabelle, and now the existence of another Hexane locale, at the center of which lies the dangerous unknown. With a shake of your head you return to the here and now, rising after a few moments and turning to Jackie, and you listen to yourself voice a half-hearted query about her haul.

""Ah, everything needs a while to attune to humies like us, but it's otherwise pretty sweet." Jackie sighs, casting a look over her allies and their new toys. Quinn's admiring a set of silvery bangles that hover just above her skin, Keane's toying with some sort of spindly, geometric item, and Ace is giving an obsidian battleaxe a few test-swings, the air groaning with the sheer weight and heft of the imposing weapon.

"I put the rest of the stuff over there." Jackie continues, jerking her thumb at a nearby table with a playful smirk. "I tried to not get too greedy, and leave you some stuff you and yours can use to kick some ass. Hope you don't mind that we took the lion's share?"

You shake your head as you stride over to the table, starting to inspect the assorted Relics before giving Jackie an appreciative nod.

"We gotta beat your score, after all." She adds with a wink.

At least that coaxes a smile out of you, all things considered.

(Continued)
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>>3582946

>>VOCEM VIRTUTIS (Skintalker Relic): One can only hope that words of power are wielded by those of kind intent. Resembling a simple necklace that holds a curious, non-euclidian pendant, the Vocem Virtutis enhances two words instantly when equipped, while the user also chooses another word to reduce to 0% BIO and 0 ACT costs. Additionally, the wearer is granted one additional ACT per turn, though it may only be used to activate the effects of the user's Lexicon. Only one VOCEM Relic may be attuned at a time.

>>MATRON'S STOICISM (Hive Mistress Relic): So your children resist the temptations of death, so too do their source. The Hive Mistress that equips this Relic now shares any resistances or immunities that her Brood possess, and she also gains a 30% BIO reduction for the first act of Hive Mistress creation at the start of combat that stacks with any other active discounts.

>>MANUS CAELORUM (Flesh Artisan Relic): The touch of god in a mortal's hands. When worn by Expressionist Artisans, Manus Caelorum increases stack maximum by 10, boosts stack potency and effects by 2% each, and increases critical hit damage of ultimate attacks by two stages. When worn by Impressionist Artisans, the Manus Caelorum increases the combat, movement, spawning, and special ability potential of each of their forms by one stage.

(Continued)
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>>3582948

>>ASCENDANT'S CROWN (Variable Relic): While the Contender is Charon's favorite creation, the Ascendant's Crown is unquetionably their masterpiece. The final step of Charon's plan to disseminate and strengthen the Ascendant Disciples' distinctive Halos, this Relic allows you to combine a number of leveled Halos in the Crown's seven sockets, restoring the Halo to its former glory (and in some cases surpassing it, depending on the skills of the original wearer) while granting the Crown of Lords a unique effect. It is notable that the donation of the Halos will strip the original users of the associated skill tree, though the resulting Crown is a thing of immense power, growing in potency as the individual Halo subsystems are leveled and gaining new abilities as higher-level Halos are installed.

>>Current Modes Available: NEUROTIC, Tier 1

>>Neurotic Crown, Tier 1 (7 Neurotic Halos, Each Lvl 1 or higher) - Complete immunity to Neuromantic effects and terraforming damage. Neuromancy used by the wearer costs 2/3 BIO to use and the owner's backlash chance is now permanently capped at 5%. Automatically deals a critical counter to any Neuromancer that attacks the wearer, dealing five times backlash damage. Renders bearer immune to mental corruption, illusion, or geas-based effects imposed by any class or source, and nullifies any such effects that are currently in effect on the wearer.

You turn the crown over in your hands, admiring the ornate, angular design of the thing as you simultaneously turn over your burgeoning plans in your troubled mind. B'ni's on the move, but to what ends you cannot say. Between this, Francine, and your continued journey west, you have some decisions to make...but don't you always?

You're in control, after all.

>>You got what you came here for, so it's time to leave and go (West/Home/to the Disassociated Ones/Write-In).

>>Examine the emptied Armory for anything the Crew might have missed, or the other rooms for any objects of note.

>>Write-In

YOU ARE IN CONTROL
>>
(Gentlemen, voting shall remain open for the next two hours. Additionally, I shall be around to address any questions regarding the new Relics.)
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>>3582950
Well now. Lots of info dumped.
>You got what you came here for, so it's time to leave and go West.
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>>3582950
oooh boy. so, Mother is gonna have Isabelle switch her mind into an old Hexxane Corpse is my thought. Mothers Corpse or anothers, hardly matters, as any Corpse Mother found worth keeping was probably stupid powerful, and actually trying to revive herself or just empower Isabelle, neither we need to have happen.

damnit, im really not sure we have everything we need yet, but im thinking we need to put an end to Isabelle sooner than later now. the issue is we still dont have a way to properly extract Dream Daughters from her.

right, so plan;
>quickly send Swarmlings and Amara Clones around the place to find anything you missed while you pack up the goods and talk to the Midnight Crew.
>Ask them if they know of any Relics or decent folks who might know of any leads, to a Phantasmal Power that would allow you to extract Dream Daughters Safely from anothers head to put in someone elses. explain you've got friends to rescue from Isabelle, but still offer up a part of your loot if they need payment for the info.
>After that, Tell Everyone you think its time to head back home, and try and plan your next move. It may no longer be Viable to simply wait on Isabelle, though you may still need to do other steps before you go directly after her.
>Place a marker down on the surface where Isabelle exited from, so you can teleport back to pick up her trail when you need to, then teleport all who are coming home.
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>>3582955
so the ascendants Crown currently has 7 other Halos in it, or thats the only mode we know it can take at the moment? Does it itself fuse and become an Ability Tree like a standard Halo, or always acts like a Relic?
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>>3582975
(It's the only form you have the Halos/Level up points to make at the moment; the Crown's inserts are currently empty. Also, it acts as a Relic at all times, as the effects are formidable.)
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>>3582978
ah, ok.
so then could we temporarily put Halos into it, then take them back out and use them as abilities again?
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>>3582950
Yep, sure looks like Mother is going to draw breath and have a new body, just like I said. Great.

>>You got what you came here for, so it's time to leave and go (West/Home/to the Disassociated Ones/Write-In).
>West. Use Bishop-boosted Knights for speed and Amara's Skintalking for tracking. Catch B'Ni before she gets to the other facility. She's only got maybe an hour and a half lead on us, we can still catch her.

So, just for curiosity's sake, would it have been actually possible to get here before B'Ni did? Was the delay from fighting the Hatter and healing Lara more or less than an hour? Not going to count talking to Francine since that was only a couple minutes of awkward conversation and a quick Neuromantic data exchange, what really delayed us was the Hatter business.
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>>3582979
(You may. Bear in mind that the Halos will not level up as long as they are in the Crown, as they must be installed in a Daughter at the time of consumption to level properly. Also, since the Crown requires attunement, if the Halos are removed from it then it will deactivate until the start of the next Vein.)
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>>3582980
(You absolutely could have beaten her here, yes. There was a separate scenario planned for that outcome.)
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>>3582980
my issue with that is, catching Isabelle does nothing if we cant save those inside of her. then again, you are right we dont know how long we have, but the issue is as it is now, we might not even be able to ensure we save Gina let alone everyone else if we have to fight her right now. unless the brain transfer Relic is exactly what we need and can be used on Dream Daughters, but thats one hell of an assumption to risk that on.
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>>3582984
The other option I think would be to fast travel home while holding onto her and put her into the Engine by force.
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>>3582983
God damn it. Got too confident on the "it needs a Skintalker to open" thing, thought we had time. I assumed that the Hexane would actually build a god damn secure bunker, and that it couldn't be pierced by any random Daughter who digs down. Seriously, what good is a bunker if its walls aren't too durable for some random low-level (which B'Ni counts as, now) Daughter to pierce? Utter bullshit, that's what it is.

>>3582984
Anon, this is our only chance. If we don't stop B'Ni now, she's going to do some brain-swap on an ancient Hexane corpse and wind up either gaining a much more powerful body, or serving as an avatar for Mother. Possibly both, I'm not entirely sure how this is going to work. Either way, it's going to make catching her considerably harder, as well as entangling her mental situation so retrieving any Dream Daughters from within her might be much more difficult. Are they in the original B'Ni body, the Hexane body, does Mother's presence change things?

No, we need to catch her before she gets there. We don't have to defeat her and drag her back to the Sparagmos Engine right now. What we do need to do is destroy that Relic and key. Make it impossible for her to complete whatever plan Mother had. I refuse to let Mother win here, let her go "hahaha, look at you, stopped to have compassion for others and now you're fucked". We catch B'Ni, we bombard her with plasma blasts from November until her clothes burn off and she has no pockets to hold the Relics in, we cut off any limbs she has (because she can't grow those back quickly anymore), and then we take the Relics.
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>>3582981
It should also be noted that the Crown is also completely useless for us right now. It requires seven Halos to activate. We have five. Get Gina back, and we'll still only have six.
>>
What we need to do is start leveraging the information gathering capabilities of our swarmlings. We should have cloaked scout and soundlings tracking Bni at all times. We'll need to plan around her if we want to stop Mother's plan.
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>>3582993
Great, we can do that after we go mug her. Let's go, no time for slow and methodical solutions right now.
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>>3582989
no, you're right, this may be our last chance...but all im saying is, if we go after her now, keep in mind we might have to genuinely sacrifice Gina and the others here. we simply dont have the tools we need to absolutely ensure we get even just Gina back right now, we cant even be sure we can do
>>3582988
this properly, and even then, said Anon is forgetting thats not how it works. unless we could entirely control Isabelles actions, she could just make the Engine do something else, or send out a different Daughter besides Gina to waste its uses, maybe even a Zombie Daughter, because Mother is being a shitter and bending the rules to the point of nearly breaking to help her, so who knows what bullcrap she would pull if we let Isabelle near an engine.

we have no way ourselves to extract Dream Daughters, no way to get DDs other than consuming, and even then only the actual Core Daughter, and while it may be able to work, cannot be absolutely sure that mind transfer has a setting to only swap Dream Daughters around. as far as i can see, our options to save anyone in her head if we fight her now are basically zero. Isabelle might be super weakened but taking her alive would still be insanely difficult.

also Relics are not invincible so we cant be sure November bombarding her wouldn't eventually damage or destroy them.
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>>3582979
wowzers. We should hang onto the relic, but not actually use it. We need more Halos. And I think we should also do a party swap.
Also, when Mother meant by her warning, she meant it literally.

REST
>IN THE EVENING I HAVE GRANTED YOU
By the Fleshscape's clock, it's literally evening if you count the dark purple sky as evening.
BREATHE
>FOR IN THE NIGHT I SHALL DRAW BREATH
It implies that Mother will have a tangible form.
SLEEP
>THIS RESPITE IS MY GIFT TO YOU
>IT IS THE LEAST I CAN DO TO REPAY YOU
>AFTER ALL YOU HAVE GIVEN ME SUCH A WONDERFUL GIFT
>>3582978
Bhop, did Amara learn any new words while exploring the house?
>>3582950
>"Jackie, I think I know what Mother's planning. There are two possible scenarios that Mother has in store, and I don't like either of them.The Mind Transfer Relic, the Hexxane Body... One is that Mother plans to Transfer Isabelle's Mind into the Hexxane Body...The other possibility is that Mother is planning to transfer her mind into the Body and make it her own personal avatar. Literally rigging the game so that Mother herself can win the Crucible again. And we're on the clock. If mother revives herself into an avatar of her own, it won't matter if Mara could stall out the Crucible. Mother knows the game like the back of her hand. She knows all the secret locations, all the mechanics...and she'll abuse it to guarantee her win. Will you help me?"
>"Besides why try to compete against, when we can collaborate and beat Mara's score instead? You're missing out on the chance to personally ruin Mother's short term plans."
>Have Amara spread the word of what we just figured out to Julia and Rath back at home base via the clones. Have them ready themselves.
>Spawn a Stealth-Knightling, Have one of the Amara Clones ride it and scout ahead, have it and look for the other Hexxane Armory.
>Time to leave. You need to head West towards the other Hexxane Armory. To stop Mother.

>>3582989
Anon, I think this merits a party swap. November is nice, but she's good as our ranged unit. Isabelle has Hideous Strength, her Cloning ability, and Dogged Sprinter/Calcite Skates. November is a slow heavy gunner. She won't fare well in melee, especially if the battleground we're going to fight in is another one of these Hexxane Underground Facilities. November's advantage is from being on an open field. We need more mobile, agile, and tougher fighters.
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>>3582989
(B'ni had no chance of ever entering the bunker. Mother forced it open for her.)
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>>3582997
i think Dorian, Julia, and Rath would be our best bet honestly. no matter our plan here, we're gonna need to get in close and also be able to hold her down hard to deal with her. that and i dont trust Isabelle to not see Amara as too big a target and use that against us.
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>>3582995
We don't have to make this our final confrontation with B'Ni. We just have to deny her the opportunity to use the Relics. One quick little fight where we aim to destroy them, followed by running away.

>>3582997
Yeah, no shit she meant it literally! I told everyone "hey, Mother's going to acquire a body for herself", but you all told me I was jumping to conclusions. Now look where we are.

And yeah, a party swap might be good. Rath can absolutely one-shot B'Ni right now, if worse comes to worse we have her smash the rabbit. Should we bring Julia, too? Have her use her new ability to eat Relics to make it easier to destroy these things?
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>>3582946
>Ace is giving an obsidian battleaxe a few test-swings, the air groaning with the sheer weight and heft of the imposing weapon.
Bhop, did you just give Ace the BodyHorror Quest Version of JokerQuest's GOLGOTHA Axe?

>>3583001
That feels like a massive breach of admin rights, if Charon's information is to be believed. Mother's admin limit is spawning amalgams,interacting with daughters via dreamstate, and doing broad sweeping patches that affect daughters and amalgams only. Terraforming the fleshscape for a single daughter feels like rigging the game. Did mother get any backlash from the Cord's programming by doing that?
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>>3582997
(Amara will actually have a choice of several, shortly.)
>>
>>3582950
>>3582972
also swapping to support

>>3582980
>>3582997
these.
i agree this is our only chance to stop her, however(though no one has argued against it) i dont agree we are ready to actually be able to do this without potentially having to sacrifice ALOT we do not want to give up.

>>3583007
we cant ensure that though. Isabelle is one fucking insane lunatic, she might rather die and take Gina with her than lose out yet again on her chance at her future. we simply cannot ensure that we can simply get the relics and get out.
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>>3583007
also two things
one, you were jumping to conclusions
two, BHOP uses our ideas, you fool.
>>
>>3583008
(It was Mother that told Charon the extent of her administrative powers. Take that as you will.)

(Also, Golgotha is best axe.
>>
>>3583001
Then why isn't Mother just squishing us? Apply some more pressure to the bunker, collapse it in around us. Because apparently her limitations were just her sandbagging, and she wants us dead, so why not kill us now? This better have taken immense resources for her to be able to do, and put severe strain on her, because if this is not a one-time sort of thing then we're all doomed anyway.

>>3583010
If we have to kill B'Ni, we kill B'Ni, and take our chances on consuming her with the Arbiter's Appetite allowing us to grab Gina. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't, but I'd rather take the tragedy of Gina dying than the tragedy of Mother having a new body.

>>3583012
One, I clearly wasn't, because I said what my logic was and that logic turned out to be right.

Two, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have made such a huge change to the plot (and "Mother gets a new body" is a pretty big change) just to dick me over for my presumption.
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>>3583013
An axe so strong it cut game balance to pieces.
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>>3583012
(I would also like to point out that >>3583007 's hypothesis was very close when he first posited it, to the point where I was fretting that one of the two people in existence that know the general plot beats had started messing with me.)

>>3583018
(She does have hard limits, as in her current position she cannot inflict direct damage on Daughters through her actions or the general fallout from them via her Terraforming.)
>>
Couldn't we just knock Bni to death's door, stabilize her, and then use neuromancy to determine if the mind-swapper could extract the dream daughters?
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>>3583018
>Arbiter's Appetite allowing us to grab Gina
well just fuck Kosi, Meg, and Eloise, right?

>I'd rather take the tragedy of Gina dying than the tragedy of Mother having a new body.
i mean i agree but i think you are underestimating how big a risk this actually is of losing them.

>just to dick me over for my presumption.
thats implying its a dick move, but we can simply agree to disagree on both these points.

>>3583024
i wasn't saying he was wrong, only that i still think the evidence did not stack up nor his explanation held enough merit to uphold his idea.
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>>3583026
hard to say, as it seems there is at least some rollover damage, as we have killed people to where they do not get to make any saving throws, and been past the starting point on how many failures they have once at it. its not impossible but would be pretty damn hard to regulate.
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>>3583013
>(It was Mother that told Charon the extent of her administrative powers. Take that as you will.)
FUCKER MOTHER. MOTHER WAS LITERALLY HOLDING BACK ON HER ADMIN PRIVILEGES AND WITHHELD KNOWLEDGE. THAT FUCKING SKANK OF A LIAR. Also, very in-character of her.

>>3583012
"We" are the fools here. There's a difference.

>>3583020
Nah, the Axe is balanced. You get increased encroachment and have to use two hands to wield the axe (given Joker's playstyle of Draw and discard guns and swords willy-nilly) in exchange for it being able to CLEAVE almost anything and the axe's ability to RAMP on each kill.

>>3583026
Could work, the problem is beating her face to death's door in the first place. And doing so without having to to overkill her.
>>
Also if we go now it might be possible to destroy the body Mother wants to use before she can switch to it. What I'm saying is, we don't have to save Gina now but we should still make an effort to sabotage Mother even if we can't do everything we want right this minute.
>>
>>3583034
well, everyone is in agreement we go and try to stop this, its only im pointing out we cannot guarantee this wont be our last chance to save Gina too.

>>3583031
well yes, we are all fools, it was just that idea was one particular fools foolery.
>>
>>3583031
We are talking about the person who's been betraying everyone she can non-stop ever since she was first physically capable of doing so.
>>
>>3583026
Yes, hopefully. We may wind up overkilling her, though. Rath absolutely can one-shot B'Ni right now, if B'Ni is reduced to bloody gibbets I don't think we can stabilize that. Not with having deleted most of her regeneration.

>>3583028
>well just fuck Kosi, Meg, and Eloise, right?
Yes. I like them, it would be sad if they died, but ultimately they're minor characters who I don't care about nearly as much.

>i mean i agree but i think you are underestimating how big a risk this actually is of losing them.
No, I'm not. I'm just this afraid of the alternative. It will suck so hard, and Mother will technically have won a victory if that happens, but I will take the lesser of two evils.

>thats implying its a dick move, but we can simply agree to disagree on both these points.
I think that taking your players' unfounded fears (if it had been unfounded, which it wasn't) and making them canon when you were originally planning something less awful is a pretty dick move, yes. We should be glad that BHOP is not a dick.

>>3583034
Maybe. That bunker seems to be actually locked, we'd have to drill our way in. Good thing we just got this heaven-piercing giga drill. I think it will be a lot easier to catch up to B'Ni before she gets inside, though.
>>
>>3583034
Instead of destroying it, how about stealing the body? Easier to lead the bunny on a wild goose chase and make her waste time.

>>3583039
So we're dealing with the Body Horror Equivalent of Exalted's Ebon Dragon. Mother did betray Isabelle by withholding information on a technicality.
>>
>>3583038
>well yes, we are all fools, it was just that idea was one particular fools foolery.
Many prophets are seen as fools by those unable to glimpse the truth as they do.
>>
>>3583044
Sure. After all giving Mother a physical body is a rather large skintalker enhancement indeed.
>>
>>3583047
>>3583038
And we have been uncannily accurate when it comes to reading the signs. Bhop even admitted that we were often close to accurate in our wild assumptions upon foreshadowing.

>>3583043
>Maybe. That bunker seems to be actually locked, we'd have to drill our way in. Good thing we just got this heaven-piercing giga drill. I think it will be a lot easier to catch up to B'Ni before she gets inside, though.

oh... Ohhhh... I like your idea. B'ni and Mother pulled the rug from under us when they raided the Hexxane Armory first by tunneling underneath to steal important key relics. So why not repay the favor? Tunnel Underground, break into the Armory, steal the body, and leave? And put up Graffiti with the slogan "TUNNEL SNEKS RULE"
>>
>>3583043
>Yes. I like them, it would be sad if they died, but ultimately they're minor characters who I don't care about nearly as much.
yes, but IC Shu and Gina do and would not want to sacrifice them.

>>3583044
>Instead of destroying it, how about stealing the body?
im not sure how viable that is, especially with Isabelle basically in our path to get to it. we will probably run into Isabelle before we can get close to the body id imagine, or be in a position where destroying it is our best bet.

would be a hilarious, though practically impossible, thing to consume the body though. my fear actually is, that if we dont get the device away from Isabelle, and she doesn't have this body to go after...Mother probably has backup targets in mind.

>>3583047
get your dick out of your hand and your head out of your ass.
>>
>>3583058
that would work if Isabelle didn't have a lead on us. granted we can go pretty fast, but so can she, and tunneling would slow us down, even with Terraforming id imagine.
>>
>>3583062
oh, we also dont know where it is and our only lead is following Isabelles trail.
>>
>>3583060
>yes, but IC Shu and Gina do and would not want to sacrifice them.
And in character they'll make the same judgement I have of "it would really suck for them to be lost, but Mother not getting a body is so much worse".

>get your dick out of your hand and your head out of your ass.
Sure, as soon as you stop trying to justify your refusal to acknowledge the clear foreshadowing.

>>3583065
Which means we kind of need to bring Amara with us. She's our best tracker. So great, bringing a kid to that scrum.
>>
>>3583065
Amara said it's further west and I assume she can get an accurate location due to her skintalker powers.
>>
>>3583067
nah, we can just bring a clone, they have the exact same tracking ability. we're gonna need the actual fighters for this one, and you forget we dont need the Actual Amara with us for what we need her for here.

>Sure, as soon as you stop trying to justify your refusal to acknowledge the clear foreshadowing.
which wasn't clear nor was your explanation sound.
>>
>>3583072
>nah, we can just bring a clone, they have the exact same tracking ability. we're gonna need the actual fighters for this one, and you forget we dont need the Actual Amara with us for what we need her for here.
I believe they actually have slightly worse tracking ability, because they don't have Amara's passives and so don't get the sensory enhancement of the kitty ears. But yeah, we can probably get by with the Skintalker parts in massive parallel.

>which wasn't clear nor was your explanation sound.
Keep telling yourself that. Justify your willful ignorance however you want. It honestly doesn't matter much now. All that matters now is that we hunt B'Ni down and smash that key and brain-swap-inator.
>>
>>3583067
We can Have Amara Scout ahead with stealthed Knightlings and use her skintalker abilities to ask the fleshscape where the Hexxane Armory's location, then plant the teleport beacon and have the whole group Teleport there. Then if we're ahead of Isabelle, we open up the Armory, mess with the Core Console code so that the key Isabelle had is registered as the wrong one to buy time, steal the body, and teleport our way out with the Body in question.

>>3583072
The other issue is that we're on a flat plain. Eloise's Skates give Isabelle a natural advantage. Isabelle was slowed down by the Forest.

>>3582950
>"Amara, We're racing against a bunny girl to get to the body to find the secret hexagon hideout and get to it. Can you help us with your many mini-mes?"
>Have Amara spawn countless clones and have them sweep the landscape west for information and location on the second Hexxane Armory.
>Get back up topside, Rebuild our Party bus with Jackie. Have it be a Collaborative Construct crafting session.
>>3583080
It doesn't matter, Amara's core is her skintalking ability. that's an active ability. The clones can ask the fleshscape questions and gain information en masse
>>
>>3583080
Damn dude you really need to get your dick out if your hand and your head out of your ass.
>>
>>3582950
>>3583010
amending my vote that we should swap out to a party of;
>Dorian, Julia, Rath
and quickly. keep an Amara Clone or two on us though.

>>3583080
>Justify your willful ignorance however you want.
not willful, i just actually like getting more information than jumping to baseless or flimsy conclusions. ive had plenty of conspiracy theories of my own, some even turned out to be entirely true, but im not an asshat who any idea he thinks he sees just HAS to be right and cannot be argued against at all, and thus keep them to myself.

>All that matters now is that we hunt B'Ni down
on that we can agree.

>and smash that key and brain-swap-inator.
the key? sure, and while id rather smash it than let it stay in her hands, it would be nice to at least try and see if the Swapper is useful to us. but again, yes, better to destroy it than let her keep it. this isnt gonna be a pretty fight though.
>>
>>3583089
i like and support this, but still think if it comes to an actual fight Amara isnt who we need.
>>
>>3583091
It's not a pretty fight against isabelle, it's gonna be even worse if Isabelle manages to finish the Mind Transfer and give Mother her personal avatar before we can steal or destroy the body.

>>3583094
Are you sure? we can abuse the fact that Amara's clones count as a construct and not as a party member, we can have the clone stay stealthed, have it multiply via duplication, and have it cast spellsin the midst of battle. Amara's participating in the fight, but it's via long distance remote control.
>>
>>3583091
What this fight comes down to is how much power Bni has amassed since we last saw her, which could be a fuckload as Mother is blatantly cheating and could have fed Bni tons of amalgams to pump her up. Alternatively if we're lucky all we'll have to deal with is a relatively toothless daughter robbed of her durability but I doubt we could be so fortunate.
>>
>>3583097
Is there a reason why we couldn't bring 20 Amaras to bury Bni under a giant pile of debuffs?
>>
>>3583097
no, i meant we need the others over Amara Prime. we can of course have some clone follow us in sure. i simply see more ways to make use of Dorian, Julia, and Rath against Isabelle, especially given the situation, than Amara Prime.

and yes, ive agreed several times now that we need to stop Isabelle from doing that at all costs. i guess ive just still got alot of nerves tangled over the last fight, and dont want to see her and the others lost to use having to kill Isabelle...but it is still better than the alternative, it just will hit hard if it happens.

>>3583104
possibly, but prepare for the worst, and all that. Isabelle, despite everything, isnt dumb, though she did sulk by the forest for quite awhile, underestimating her would be amiss.
>>
>>3583090
Honestly, I wouldn't be so adamant about this if WorkAnon didn't keep going "You didn't know! Fuck you, you just guessed!". It's making me get all defensive, he'd rather call me an idiot than accept that I had a point and it's really pissing me off. I should curtail that, I'm sorry, guys.

>>3583091
>the key? sure, and while id rather smash it than let it stay in her hands, it would be nice to at least try and see if the Swapper is useful to us. but again, yes, better to destroy it than let her keep it. this isnt gonna be a pretty fight though.
If we can escape with it, sure. If we can't, much better to destroy it than leave it in her hands. And no, this fight isn't going to pretty at all.

>>3583104
Yeah, if Mother's cheating who knows how much B'Ni has recovered in this past day and a half. She probably doesn't have nearly as good regeneration, but other than that? Uncertain.

>>3583109
Nope. Let's make a fence of Queen Crimsons like we did against Hatter, too.
>>
>>3583109
time necessary to get Amara the resources to spawn that many, given the fact we have a time limit?
>>
>>3583115
Each generation is twice as big as the last, so we can get a huge amount quickly. Start the fight with one Amara, round two you have three, round three you have seven, round four you have fifteen, etc.
>>
>>3583109
We could, but it will take time, time that we're 1.5 hours short on. Although, we could have Keane and the entire party help grow those 20 amaras on the party bus and have them ready to bury Isabelle under the giant debuffs.
>>3583111
And I agree that we're swapping out Amara prime, but we're treating the Clone construct as an extension of Amara. the Amara clone itself has 2 Actions, and a statline of 150hp/100bio. We can spend time by linking the clone up with Keane and the rest of the party members to grow the construct army via the clone and abusing our hp/bio regen and applying it on the clone.
>>3583115
That's why we're growing the clones on a party bus. Have her make clones until the bus is at full capacity, any excess clones get off the bus and start exploring fleshscape.
>>
>>3583115
Actually to act of creating a clone is a net gain of health and biomass, somehow...
So you can create as many clones as you need instantaneous.
>>
>>3583113
> he'd rather call me an idiot
well, for what its worth, not what im saying or tried to imply at all. you're smart, all of you guys here are actually pretty damn clever, which is why it pisses me off, when in my opinion, i see you guys jump to conclusions based on flimsy evidence, but more importantly than that, in my opinion, once you do, you outright refuse to even listen to opposing viewpoints once you grab hold of such an idea, and in my opinion, act high and mighty about said flimsy point and your disregard of even listening to the others side, or in my opinion, is how you write out your responses in the past, and why i am so adamant on the topic of it now.

>>3583121
very true.

>>3583122
seems fair. though while i will say its probably more likely than not, almost guaranteed, devils advocate moment here, cant be 100% the Midnight Crew will come. i mean, its like 99% chance, but still.

>>3583125
i think thats only with Keanes Dual Tech. otherwise its still a hit to Amara Prime.
>>
>>3583122
>That's why we're growing the clones on a party bus. Have her make clones until the bus is at full capacity, any excess clones get off the bus and start exploring fleshscape.
How long does it take to grow the party bus? Do you think we can spend time on that, or should we go straight to Knight mounts?

You know what might actually work? Give Sui Tormentis to Amara. Have her spend her Health regen on speed every turn. The clones will get that boost, and that will make them faster in combing the fleshscape for B'Ni. Then once they find her we swap the armor to whoever is going to be wearing it in the fight, and rush to catch up with B'Ni.
>>
Guys, why do I get the feeling that once Mother gets her body, she'll instantly turn and kill Isabelle? Having her Favorite Daughter become permanently gimped in power pretty much loses mother's favor right? No use for a daughter whose core ability has been deleted. Besides, Mother has other favorites she can play with.
>>
>>3583132
Sui Tormentis is a Tier 3 Relic. Amara's ability only works on Tier 2 Relics and lower.
>>
>>3582950
>that filename:
>Neurotic Ascendant - Thelis the mad
Is...Is that Mother's Real Hexxane Name?
>>
>>3583134
if that is her plan, once she gets her body, her favorites will only be her biggest threats. they all must die once she is the new favored.
>>
>>3583137
(It is not, I'm afraid. Thelis was the original bearer of the Neurotic Halo, one of the Twelve Ascendants.)
>>
>>3583134
I pretty much assumed that would be the case but I didn't want to say it in case bhop had a different plan that made less sense than indulging Mother's chronic betrayal syndrome.
>>
>>3583129
>well, for what its worth, not what im saying or tried to imply at all. you're smart, all of you guys here are actually pretty damn clever, which is why it pisses me off, when in my opinion, i see you guys jump to conclusions based on flimsy evidence, but more importantly than that, in my opinion, once you do, you outright refuse to even listen to opposing viewpoints once you grab hold of such an idea, and in my opinion, act high and mighty about said flimsy point and your disregard of even listening to the others side, or in my opinion, is how you write out your responses in the past, and why i am so adamant on the topic of it now.
I understand that idea in principle, and I agree that we shouldn't jump to conclusions too often. But my conclusion was just "guys, she said she was going to live again, I think she's going to live again". And rather than anyone trying to dispute me on the grounds of "it's Mother, she probably lied", everyone got into these convoluted word games trying to argue that the thing Mother said didn't mean what it does. And that got me really frustrated, because it felt like nobody was arguing in good faith, and just trying to avoid making conclusions for the sake of avoiding making conclusions. Like they were afraid that if they made any predictions they'd just look stupid if they turned out to be wrong, so they'd rather shut down the very concept of making predictions. It got me really frustrated and that's why I argued so vehemently then and why, being reminded of it, I'm so frustrated with the idea now. I'm sorry I'm getting so frustrated, though, I'll try to curtail it.

>>3583135
That is a good point, we upgraded it and the speed boost in fact came at level three. Forgot about that. Okay, nevermind.

>>3583137
I don't think so. I think these Ascendants were the greatest epitomes of the Daughter classes to arise from the Hexane. Mother was a Skintalker, not a Neuromancer (though she probably picked up some Neuromancer skills, I'm sure).
>>
>>3583148
>12 Ascendants
>TWELVE ASCENDANTS
>Ascendants meaning each of them actually won the Crucible and became Mother.
WAIT WAIT WAIT. YOU MEAN THE HEXXANE PLAYED THE CRUCIBLE GAME 12 SEPARATE TIMES?
>>
>>3583155
(Not quite. I am reticent to reveal more here, but the notes you've collected thus far regarding Uzu, Mother, and Charon will shed farm more light on the events of the Hexane Crucible.)
>>
>>3583155
Maybe. Or it's indicating that they ascended together, the one-Daughter rule was something Mother put in place. And then Mother betrayed them all, not just Charon.
>>
>>3583153
>I'm sorry I'm getting so frustrated, though, I'll try to curtail it.
we're both being assholes and we both made mistakes in how we argued our points, i think we can agree on that. for what its worth again, im glad you care enough to argue and defend your points, disagreements or not, the game wouldn't be as fun if you guys didnt care enough to disagree and dig deeply. i think a problem here is we both just have different ways of dissecting and enjoying the game, when it comes to this specific topic of theory crafting and predictions, and neither of ours mesh well with the others.

anyways, so the plan seems to be;
>Spawn a shitton of Clones to help track and to use against Isabelle, but otherwise switch out for Dorian, Julia, and Rath.
>catch up with and cut off Isabelle, if possible before she reaches the vault. use everything at our disposal to get there as fast as possible.
>main goal it to destroy or apprehend the Hexxane corpse and Swapper Relic, secondary goal is to not yet kill Isabelle unless necessary.

>>3583155
>>3583159
holy damn, now that is interesting.
>>
>>3583169
The idea isn't flawed, on the 3rd greentext goal when it comes to destroy/steal the Mind Transfer Relic, but stealing or destroying at least one of the key items will be our win condition.

Isabelle/MOTHER's win condition:
>Get to the body (requires Hexxane Corpse)
>Activate the relic (requires Mind Transfer Relic)
>All two must be fulfilled

We only need to disrupt one of those win conditions in order to rob Mother and Isabelle. The Corpse feels easier to steal. We can butcher and quarter it into pieces and then make like a bandit. Stealing the Relic would just be trying to catch a swarm of fish (Isabelle has a cloning ability)
>>
>>3583183
true, but like i said earlier, thats a dangerous Relic to leave in Isabelles hands. its UNLIKELY, but there are still plenty of other powerful targets for her to use it on, and Isabelle can and probably isnt against a bit of subterfuge rather than direct confrontation. we kinda need to get rid of both honestly, as if we just get rid of the Swapper, she may still be able to consume the corpse. but if she still has the Swapper, she can just pick another target.
>>
>>3583169
> i think a problem here is we both just have different ways of dissecting and enjoying the game, when it comes to this specific topic of theory crafting and predictions, and neither of ours mesh well with the others.
Yeah, maybe that's it. I'll try harder to not let the lack of meshing jam us up i the future, though.

>>3583183
But B'Ni will be easier to catch. She's in between us and the bunker, we need to overtake her in order to get to the corpse ahead of her.

Also, this timeline doesn't add up. B'Ni started moving last night, from the western side of the forest instead of the eastern like us, and her land speed is higher. Why did she only get to the bunker an hour ahead of us? The obvious answer is that she went hunting first, to bolster her strength, but why? It's probably not that she expected us to stop her, Mother would have told her we were resting and if she didn't delay for whatever reason she would have already done the procedure and gotten whatever big powerups she expects from it before we could catch her. Is she expecting danger at the bunker, is it guarded by something she has to fight?
>>
>>3583195
Karma said the security system to Mother's old house was deactivated. So Mother must've pulled terraforming feats to stop whatever security there is.
>>
>>3583204
Maybe. Maybe it took a while for Mother to shut it down externally. I don't know, I don't like the ambiguity, though. But hey, anything that slows B'Ni down is good in my books.
>>
>>3583195
If her land speed is higher how are we going to manage to catch up?
>>
>>3583228
Flight
>>
>>3583228
its higher at its base, but we have ways of boosting our own considerably. its not a sure shot but we may be able to outpace her, if only slightly, if we put all our efforts towards it.
>>
>>3583228
Bishop-boosted Knights are our best shot. If we can rope the Crew into this as well then Jackie giving us enhancements may work, too.
>>
>>3583230
actually, Dorian in theory might be at least equal to her now at his base, really depends on some factors.

with Sui Tormentis id imagine anyone can outpace her, but thats not here nor there right now, as we have to get a group, not an individual, to her.
>>
>>3583237
>>3583230
>Jackie enhancing the Bishops steroids
not fast enough
we need to go faster.

Dorian's Paintlings can provide more lubrication and increase our ground speed, but it might not be enough. we need to go even faster.
>>
>>3583230
>>3583237
>>3583229
Just a bit worried that we'll get there right as mother uploads herself into an endgame body and then immediately proceeds to shit all over us.
>>
>>3583244
....put the Sui Tormentis on the Hummer and have it run itself dry/ have us feed it health as group to increase its speed.
>>
>>3583245
Yeah, that's a risk. It's certainly a risk. But I don't see what else we can do. We can't not try to stop B'Ni.
>>
>>3583241
What about Teleport Beacon shenanigans? Give Dorian a Teleport Beacon, have him boost his speed constantly with Sui Tormentis on each turn, and get to the Hexxane Hideout before Isabelle. Also. we need him to carry an Amara clone for scouting purposes. But once the location of the hideout is found, Amara's clone can let Amara prime know they found the place, wherein Shu, Senpai, and Crew will Teleport to the planted Beacon.

>>3583248
Would that even work? If it does work, holy shit.
Also. now you're giving me Initial D memes in my head at the sight of seeing a Hivecraft Hummer in Sui Tormentis Armor going faster and faster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atuFSv2bLa8
>>
>>3583254
That's a possibility. BHOP, can Dorian carry one of the Gear's spokes? And a Swarmling, too, just so we can keep in contact with him.
>>
>>3583248
>>3583250
If we do catch up with Isabelle, how are we going to delay her? I'm thinking a Terraformed Dry Tumbler.
>>
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>>3582950

“Amara, once we’re out of here I need you to spawn as many clones as you can.” You announce, striding towards the home’s exit. “We’re going in pursuit of Isabelle, and we’re not taking any chan…”

You’re interrupted when November’s arm in thrown out to stop you, her other hand’s B.A.R sliding out and leveled at the wall. You turn in time to see it seal shut, plates of thick, calcified biomass sliding into place at the same moment the sound of cracking starts to echo down the hall ahead of you. A hand reaches out from the left doorway, its long fingers gripping the frame with such force it’s shattered to dust in its grasp. Another hand seizes the top of the doorway, and another, and…

Over a dozen individual limbs shatter the entrance before the Amalgam’s full form fills the hall, roiling towards you in a tangle of shattered limbs and broken torsos. A scarlet mass of pulsing tissue is nestled in the center of the shifting, vibrating mass composed of the Hexane Memorial, their effigies dancing about like obscene puppets tugged along by crimson strings.

Your gauntlets creak, your fists clenching with silent fury as the Amalgam emerges into the entertainment space, its full mass swelling to a thing that is painful to look at in every way as its outer armor moves with blinding speed. November’s guns are locked and at the ready, while Dorian’s arms gleam in the Hexane light, his quartet of blades cutting through the air in anticipation. Amara just glares ahead defiantly, an expression shared by the clones that rally to her side.

You share a glance with Jackie, and she just gives you a cocksure smirk, the rest of the Crew stepping up beside her with gleeful bloodthirst in their eyes, each and every one of them itching for a good fight.

“Mother’s not letting us out of here without a fight…” You say, eyes narrowed as you turn to the vibrating mass before you.

Your helmet slides in place, its angular plate completing the gleaming suit of the Chitinous Stalwart as you step forwards, your forces at the ready.

“…So we’re damn well going to give her one.”

Shu the Defiant, Hunter of Gods

VS.

PHALANX OF THE FALLEN

>>Twenty-Third Vein: Closed
>>
>>3583258
Dorian with Sui Tormentis and a bishop carrying a teleport spoke is our best bet.
>>
(Gentlemen, thank you so much for your time, patience, and participation. The 24th Vein will go live on the morning of Tuesday, June 25th at 9:00AM Eastern time. I shall be around intermittently thoughout the coming week to address questions, concerns, and criticisms, and I welcome them all, as always. Thank you once again for being the best group of players I could ask for, and I hope you all have a good day.)

>>3583258
(Yes, he may.)
>>
>>3583269
Okay, not to nitpick, but shouldn't this be against the rules you stated for Mother's actual limits? I think this qualifies as "harming Daughters with the fallout of her actions". If trapping someone in a confined space with an Amalgam doesn't count, what stops her from pulling similar tricks with other hazards? "Oh, I didn't harm Shu, I just stuck her in a box full of fire. It's the fire that's harming her, that's not the my fault."
>>
Yeah guys there's no way we're catching up. Even without Mother's interference it wasn't a sure thing. With it, Isabelle will have quick uninterrupted travel while we'll be slogging through hostile terrain and amalgams. We need to start making countermeasures for an endgame daughter rather than committing to a hopeless chase.
>>
>>3583254
>Would that even work? If it does work, holy shit.
i see two options to do it;
either we wrap the engine in the Armor. integrate it into it temporarily, then feed its fuel intake with our Health.
or someone in the Armor with Flesh warping and Neuromancy integrates into the vehicle, and feeds it with Sui that way.

both i think could work, but also potentially have risks....but we might just need to take the risk, as its our best bet to get an entire group to her in time. im also not sure which would work better.

>What about Teleport Beacon shenanigans?
that could work too, but carries the risk of him getting caught by himself, especially as with how Regen works if he gets caught alone he will be caught at a moment of weakness. its also possible, though unlikely, Dorian gets hit before he can properly put down the spoke.

im fine with either, but the Hummer means less individual danger.

>>3583259
well, without a doubt some fighting. Terraform the ground infront of her into a massive gap, cut off her way forward, and get ready to tumble. main objective is not to let her get past. wall of clones and Terraforming tricks, though keep in mind she can move vertically well too, so we have to make it and keep it as dangerous attacking terrain, and maybe throw down some spirals on the walls too. she very likely will try to slip past us rather than fight us, so keeping her tied up in melee where she cant get away is a good idea too. she has her clones but its a much more quality over quantity type it seems, but will still be annoying, but i think we can still hold down her clones/figure out whcih has the relic and keep that one pinned-

>update happens

>>3583269
oh well fuck us we dont have time for that. fucking mother and her bullshit.

...whew, ok, we're gonna owe them one, but we may have to ask the Midnight Crew to get us an opening out of here, maybe let November stay behind as shes not part of the plan...and i guess technically Amara too. but damnit we literally do not have time for this, if we take this fight i guarantee you we arrive too late, and FUCK. THAT.

goddammit i dont want to force that or ask that of the Midnight Crew, but it really feels like something that has to happen. we cannot allow Isabelle to gain such a powerful new body, or Mother to be revived. we just cant. and i get why it must happen, but goddamn what a cliffhanger.

>>3583277
its been fun as always, thank you for running what you could, despite the holdups.
not to nag you, but can we expect the updated Relic sheet before the next Vein?
also we still never got the West Notes pastebin.
>>
>>3583269
Fucking Mother with the spontaneous bonewarden bullshit what's even the point of the crucible if the admin can just abitrarily pick who they want to succeed and fail? It completely defeats the purpose if the victor doesn't win by their own ability.
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>>3583277
Hey Bhop, where's our new list of possible lexicon words that Amara learned? I would like the list so that we may take advantage of it when we enter this combat.

Also. welp. Mother's "force feeding" us more food.
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>>3583277
Thanks for running, BHOP. You've left us on a hell of a cliffhanger.

>>3583280
Dorian is unaffected by rough terrain, punishes everything that hits him with automatic lightning and blood blades, and is incredibly fast. I think he might be able to do it.

>>3583285
Yeah, but it's honestly not unexpected. What death game narrative doesn't have the administrator break the rules and totally disrupt the proper functioning in order to create their desired outcome? Name one. I certainly can't. Of course, that usually also had the administrator's plan backfiring as the system goes completely out of their control and only causes greater damage, so that's something fun to look forward to. Excuse me, I meant "fun".
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>>3583291
i still think the Hummer idea is quite possible, however now if we even get our opening, it will be a much tighter one, so while i think its possible i dont think we have time to set it up, so yeah hoping Dorian doesn't get gimped once he comes to a stop is our best bet. a risky one though.
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>>3583291
Well if Mother's personally entering the game by transferring her mind into the Hexxane Corpse, the Admin position is left wide open without a moderator to regulate the usual maintenance routine an Admin does to keep the game system going. And without routine Maintenance, the system slowly starts to break down.
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>>3583296
Exactly. The Crucible is going to spiral out of control without a moderating influence and everything's going to break down horribly. This is how death games work.
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>>3583302
>>3583296
weren't we told though the Crucible has an automated backup though? Charon(i think) told us killing Mother would actually do very little to stop the Crucible or hinder it, probably implying its been done or attempted before and thus counter measures were put in place.
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>>3583307
That was in the context of the fact that to get to Mother in the first place you have to ascend the Cord, which triggers the reboot and turning you into the new Mother. I think it might be different in regular operations.
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>>3583302
Mother's plan seems pretty shortsighted unless she has a way to keep administrating after she transfers but I wouldn't be surprised if this whole scheme was cooked up to stem the tide of betrayal withdraw Mother has experienced since ascending.
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>>3583308
im not actually sure it was in that context though, i dont remember any of that being mentioned. i mean, fair and good point, but in the context we were told it sounded more like a 'if somehow you killed mother even away from the cord, it wouldn't do much.' is how it seemed to be told. basically saying her position wasn't outright that important in the sense of her being there, regardless of if the situation is possible or not. though, maybe if her enforcers turn out to not be strong enough and die, Mother herself is then allowed to go take care of such problems as a last ditch effort, hence why said info is known?
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>>3583279
>>3583285
(You're absolutely correct; Mother is breaking the rules, and she's not doing so without severe cost to herself and her own continued existence. Allow me to delve a little more into the rules, as its very relevant for the Quest's 2nd Act. In terms of hard mechanics, it works like this-The Admin has a set of abilities that work on a cooldown, i.e. spawning Amalgams in unoccupied areas, changing the terrain as long as it does not hinder Daughters currently traversing the area, minor things. At certain player thresholds [i.e. the main player characters] she may make a single rule change to keep things fresh and amp up the difficulty. All of these minor things are represented by a small pool of points that refresh each session, represented here by white Reversi tokens.)

(However, the Admin may overstep their bounds and actively break the rules, [by spawning Amalgams in occupied zones, taking actions that favor a particular participant, or terraforming with the intent of disruoting Daughters currently in transit through said zone ] flipping that token over to the black side. At the end of the session, it is removed from the available pool the rest of the Crucible, permanently gimping the Admin's basic set of actions. What's more is that when the Admin does this for the first time in a Crucible, their cheat tokens now effectively function as a health bar, and they not only lose tokens for cheating but they also lose an additional token for when the players are able to overcome the obstacles the cheat spawned into existence. When the Admin runs out of tokens, they are automatically purged from the Crucible's system. No death saving throws, no hope of recovery. The Crucible continues trucking along without them, obeying the core rule system without deviation.)

(The Admin is gone, forever.)

(This is detailed on one of the journals you have now, but to say more would be spoilers. I hope this elaborates a bit on how and why Mother's doing what she is, and also illuminates how enjotable playing the Admin/Mother can be for the QM/DM.)
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>>3583287
(The Phalanx has them, I'm afraid.)

>>3583283
(I'll be happy to update the Relic sheet well before then, and as for West's notes, I thought I'd posted them awhile back? In any case, here they are again for your perusal. Thank you for asking!)

West' Notes: https://pastebin.com/zf9X0jm0
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>>3583320
that...is mechanically very interesting, neat. so...we know for sure she has used at least 3. though that hardly means anything without us knowing how many she starts with, but if we survive this she loses two more.

as i suspected, the Crucible can run on auto pilot, and in retrospect of those rules, it honestly sounds like the Admin position is actually entirely unnecessary. the only argument might be Amalgams, but its possible the Crucible can spawn those itself, and/or not having them doesn't impede it, as all that really means is eventually Daughters will HAVE to consume Daughters to stave off the hunger, and otherwise eventually worse case is the single last Daughter falls to the hunger, and climbs the cord in her insanity.

>>3583330
no issue, and thank you for both Wests notes and confirmation on the Relic sheet. i also have a question you wanted me to ask again once you closed the Vein, but if you are busy i can post it later when you have more time.
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>>3583330
that pastebin is private by the way, which may be the issue.
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>>3583320
So what about Enforcers like Charon? If the Admin is away, what happens to those who are under Mother's servitude? The Admin reneging the deal on her end by virtue of breaking her own rules renders the contract null and void no?
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>>3583320
Okay, so this is costing her to do. Good to know that she can't break her rules casually. This ruleset actually kind of reminds me of a few "DM-less" tabletop systems I've played. It's pretty common to have one of the players still be in the same role of the antagonistic figure, but to give them a character sheet and mechanics that represents a villain that can manipulate the world on the large scale to cause trouble for the other players. The one that most comes to mind is Fellowship, I can see a lot of similarities with how some of the Overlord's moves damage their stats (which, unlike the other players, are true/false statements instead of general capabilities) and can remove them from play.

Kind of want to make a rules hack for Fellowship to play in this setting, now. It would fit. Abilities are mostly mechanical and can be fluffed in a variety of ways, the base campaign structure is about the journey to a destination, there are a bunch of rules for making interesting settlements to discover along the way...yeah, I could do this pretty easy. Honestly, might not even have to make any changes at all, a lot could be handled just with refluffing things.
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>>3583330
>>3583331
>>3583333
(Hrm...ignore that link for now, as that Pastebin is outdated and is missing a vast amount if information. Not quite sure how that happened, but this Vein has the writings, just Ctrl-F for "Francine Randolph West" and it will lead you directly to it. My apologies for the inconvenience!)

>>3583334
(You are absolutely correct. Charon's binding exists as a geas, so the death of the binder would free them from control.)
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>>3583345
actually i think the writings were 2-3 Veins ago. i actually still have all the Class Summaries saved, i just neglected to save the stuff posted later, such as Hybrid info and whatnot.
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>>3583345
Her middle name is Randolph? That another reference, Randolph Carter?
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>>3583345
>>3583283
(Bah, meant to post the link to this Vein;)

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/3506531/

>>3583357
(Absolutely. Pic related.)
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>>3583363
Hahaha. Nice. Anyways, thanks for running, BHOP. See you next time. Enjoy that vacation you were talking about.
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>>3583338
The Crucible's automated system reminds me of Kingdom Death Monster. There is no antagonistic God (well pseudo gods, but they're counted as Nemesis Enemies that can be hunted and killed.) it's just human civilization attempting to survive a cruel harsh world.

>>3583320
>>3583269
Speaking of tokens...
>Terraforming a Tunnel to break into a Hexanne Armory for Isabelle when Isabelle doesn't meet the requirements to enter the Armory.
>Disabling Hexxane Armory Security system
>Terraforming a Tunnel to barr daughters (Shu's group) from exiting
>Spawning an Amalgam in an occupied zone
>Giving Isabelle (Favored Daughter) information to two secret locations
That's Five Admin points that Mother has burned in one session. Us killing the Fallen Phalanx would make it Six Admin points.
It seems that the rules that Mother is allowed to break seem to vary by cost. And so far, she hasn't really pulled out the big guns. Is there a hard-coded rule that prevents Mother from doing the most scumbag action [Terraforming the landscape to directly kill or harm a daughter/Directly Deleting a Daughter from existence] or does the cost of directly deleting a daughter basically kills Mother outright from attempting said action due to it costing too many reversi tokens?

>>3583345
>Killing Mother frees Charon and Ringo
>Unleashes an untold amount of other otherworldly beasts and amalgams from their contract onto the Crucible World.
Double edged swords and silver linings. We are going to be making friends with Tindalos.

>Hexxane Corpse
My mind goes back to the recent botw 2 trailer... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fr1Z07AV00
Bhop, is this related to how the Hexxane Corpse will behave once revived?
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>>3583363
haha, yeah i just got finished hunting it down and saving it temporarily. thanks though!

ill go ahead and ask that question again, though get to it as you have time, of course.

>>3575781
>hey, so how much does the Uzis standard ammunition cost? and i guess for both it and the Contender, what kinda limitations do we have for crafting customized rounds, both at and away from a Forge? id assume at a forge theres a limit or quality based off the Forges Tier, but on the road id imagine its much different.

actually i suppose said info might be better placed as a note inside the Relics sheet, as its info we might need to call upon again somewhat often.
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>>3583363
Thanks for running OP this was a blast and gives me a lot of food for thought how to overcome these problems
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>>3583372
>Bhop, is this related to how the Hexxane Corpse will behave once revived?
Assuming Mother is transferring something into the corpse, and not out. The way I see it, one of two things is going to happen. Either Mother is going to piggyback along on B'Ni so that when she activates the swap with the corpse (what does B'Ni think is going to happen, by the way?) it's Mother who winds up controlling it. Or it's the other way around, Mother is occupying that corpse, and swapping with it means that she'll take possession of B'Ni. And then probably eat the corpse to level up and gain its Core skill, of course. Still going to be a super-Daughter avatar body, but whether it will look like B'Ni or a giant bug person is less clear.
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>>3583277
Also. Thanks for Running.
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/3570737/

>"Shu, senpai, and friends raid a Hexxane Armory, only to find they weren't the first thieves. The plot of Act 2 thickens. Mother makes her move"

>[PROCESSING....]

>[23rd VEIN....ARCHIVED]
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>>3583320
I guess this is good to know, but I kinda miss the mystery.
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>>3583446
It's been a mystery for quite some time...but we don't have time to properly do the slow paced sleuthing. We're doing Sherlock Holmes speed sleuthing on a timer while trying to outgambit an alien god in a flesh-covered planet.
>>
You know, if we can create an opening for Dorian to escape we could have him en route to intercept Bni and have him teleport us in when we finish killing this thing.
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>>3583463
How? The tunnel's been sealed shut by Mother, and we have an Amalgam fighting us for our attention and to possibly kill us. We're being slowed down as we speak.

>>3583277
Hey Bhop, are the new relics that we picked up automatically equipped?
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>>3583463
We could send dorian out(over the elevator) with a Subverssive Bishop Grappling that holds one of the Gears Spokes and to Dorian who drags it along with him(and grants dorain a starting boost) while he goes ever faster over the fleshscape

(Dorian wouldnt be much help down here it is pretty cramped compared to the surface so his speed would not be of much use)

In the Meantime we crush this amalgam and leave it be, no consuming unless the midnight Crew wants to stay and do so

Then Teleport to the Lair grab Rath if she has recovered enough and leave November(if we grab Rath)
Wait for the Swarmling to inform us that the Spoke has been planted and go in there to Tactical Teleportation Strike Isabelle when she tries to enter the Hexane Storage

Have Rath pin her down with her Phantom LImbs while grappling her and we start shredding everything she has on hermaybe even incapacitate her
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>>3583477
>How? The tunnel's been sealed shut by Mother, and we have an Amalgam fighting us for our attention and to possibly kill us. We're being slowed down as we speak.
Have the rest of the party hold off the Amalgam while Shu makes a hole with Heaven's Drill? Something that pierces all armor should be able to get through the calcite wall Mother raised unless she interferes further. And that would cost her more of her resource pool, can she afford to lose even more tokens to us?
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>>3583492

Totally supporting this plan. Sneak Dorian upstairs, possibly with Amara Piggyback & Bishops (for speed) & a camo-cloak made of Camolings. The invisibility should keep them safe, to assuage some anon (very reasonable) concerns.

Finish off the amalgma, delegate that to the midnight crew if possible.

Teleport to home, grab Rath, hop in the hummer. Then, the second tactical teleportation to Dorian is available, do so.

QUESTION: do we have any means of long-distance comms with Dorian via emphatic field? I think that Dorian taking a Jackling would work...

Let´s smash mother & B´ni. It´s going to be a tough fight, even if we perform an intercept. B´ni is a very seasoned fighter, and I don´t expect her to go down quietly.

At least we have the ability to chop her limbs off, and it should be aviable containment strategy now.
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>>3582946

I KNEEEEW IIIIIIT! THE STARS HAVE ALIGNED & A CRIMSON PATH SHALL MARK THE AWAKENING OF THE OLD GODS!
ÌA ÌA, MOTHER MOTHER FLAGTHNG!
.....
Ahem, yes I thought this was likely to happen. Mother seemed far too cunning by half to accept her extinction as crucible admin. Good to know that her betrayal of her own entire species was backed by a "crucible hijack" plan.
I wonder if West prime & Mother meet for Tuesday afternoon cookies and pleasant discussions about the biological sciences & the finer points of backstabbery. I mean, they have so many points in common....

So she has got a proper body lined up? I thought the old hag wanted to possess Amara, for maximum spite...but I see that she prefers to have a body suiting her tastes.

THAT, or we are walking into a trap, and she is baiting us there for Amara. But I have to recognize that having a form-fitting vessel made for her makes more sense. Less body dysphoria issues, for starters.
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>>3583363
Thanks for another fantastic Vein BHOP.

>>3583492
Agree with this. I expect the fight to be quicker than Dorian catching up with Isabelle so consuming is not out of the question.

>>3582991
We could potentially get a seventh Halo by resurrecting Meg along with Gina, but that would require spending the last free RESTORE and we'd have to sacrifice (albeit reversibly) all of the Halos to use the Crown.

>>3583345
Good god y'all, if we make the Neurotic Crown and put it on Charon it will nullify her geas. New long term goal.

>>3583416
senpai..?
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>>3583627
word filter. it’s Family abbreviated because i had hit the character limit
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>>3583604
Chopping limbs off is gonna do a lot of damage unless we cauterize them immediatly like with plasma or something like that, Rath is just gonna deal more damage with her Boils so they are out of the Question to stop regeneration unless we are willing to risk killing her.

We will have to stop her clones getting away too otherwise we would have to hunt them ALL down which is gonna be a nightmare(to get the Relics)

Intercepting her at the entrance of the Storage facility is the only thing possible for us to guarantee thet she has at least on of the relics with her.
While Mother could just once again tunnel sabelle Tunnel into the Storage Facility even if we get the key, it will cost her a lot to do so and deactivate the security that will activate if they detect a breach(I am very sure the security would be a tough fight for us would just ruin Isabelle how she is now)

>>3583621
We should make sure than that the Old gods of a time long past shall never reawaken, we shall let them slumber for eternity in their ancient realms never to feel the kiss of Starlight again, forever shaking with in their dreams about the God Hunter

If we have to set the World alight to break her.... lets jsut make sure we do not have to do it to prove to mother that she really does not want to come back
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>>3583320

Congratulations, BHOP. A wonderful session, as always.
My only regret is that we didn´t have the time to properly geek around a fully-equipped Hexxane abode.

I mean, whyyyyyy? We get this wonderful chnace to get introduced to the finer opints of hexxane culture, and we have to leave in a hurry, knowing that MOTHER will probably cave-in the whole place after we leave.

I mean, it was ALIEN ART DECO, the museum! That place was worth at least half a vein! I imagine that in the climatic battle, Julia & Dorian scream, in unison:

"The ART alone in there was worth a decade of study, you fiend!! WRYYYYYYYY!"

Sorry, but knowing the detail you put into worldcrafting, I would gladly have derailed the session into a careful "artistic NCSI" episode, while you guided us through the particulars of Hexxane culture, arts, metalurgy & psychology.
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>>3583631
>Chopping limbs off is gonna do a lot of damage unless we cauterize them immediatly like with plasma or something like that, Rath is just gonna deal more damage with her Boils so they are out of the Question to stop regeneration unless we are willing to risk killing her.
Exsanguinating Leash will reduce it by a third. Red Death's level five ability can let Dorian forgo regenerating his armor layer by damaging enemies in order to reduce it by another 125%. That's probably still not enough to keep her from regenerating at all, but it will inhibit it considerably.

>>3583634
>Sorry, but knowing the detail you put into worldcrafting, I would gladly have derailed the session into a careful "artistic NCSI" episode, while you guided us through the particulars of Hexxane culture, arts, metalurgy & psychology.
That was my hope upon first entering the bunker, too. Truly, B'Ni is the absolute worst, to deny us this. On the plus side, Charon made all this. And we now have a possible way to free them. So maybe they'll be able to teach us their art in person.
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>>3583631

It seems that "Dorian GOTTA GO FAST" plan has wide support. Niiice, it was a good one.

Good tactical suggestions, albeit for the clone containment part, we have A LOT of swarmlings & Amara the terraforming goddess, seems a work for them.

Good point about the token expenditure. At least, Mother should be slightly reluctant to spend tokens, meaning that ambushing B´ni should be possible.
However, the second she looks cornered, we are going to see AMALGAM SPAM, THE GAME. At the very least, MOTHER is anything but creative...
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>>3583627

Neurotic crown can cancel the GEAS on Charon?

NEW LONG TERM GOAL...DETECTED.

Plus if we fail to stop mother or the quest gets complicated, having CHARON free & helping us would INMENSELY help our chances. And her combat ability is measured in megatons per punch, I do believe.

Besides, we know she has exterminated groups with viable plans to derail the crucible. Imagine if she was just free to cough up all the crucible-derailing schemes she has interrrupted...

That would give us a hell of a strategic toolbox.
I was pretty partial to salted nukes myself, and it would have been very viable to ask the DO´s for them, but this would be even better.

An unrestricted chat with CHARON may win this war.
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>>3583652
I can see a talk with charon be something that would give us insight into the very workings of the crucible from someone who worked from inside the crucible for many years

I dont belive she really knew the schemes she interrupted. Mother probably send her the equivalent of a text saying:"Go <insert place name>. Dispose of everything. NOW!"

The strategic Toolbox would be her knowing everyone else that might have a grudge against mother and would be free to persecute it
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>>3583652
There are some problems in the way to that plan, though. For one thing, we only have five Neurotic Halos, forming the Neurotic Crown takes seven. Bringing Gina back will get us a sixth. We can get a seventh by reviving Meg, but that requires deciding we're going to spend the last Restore function on her. Alternatively, we may be able to purify one of the ones used in the West clones after killing them. Maybe salvage Francine's if we do her "destroy the hive-mind" plan and it works, let it be one last noble thing she has the chance to do.

Another problem is that it requires removing the Halos to put onto the Crown. Shu and Amara's Halos are built into them now, between Shu having Perpetual Crown and Amara hybridizing the skill. We can probably undo that with the Sparagmos Engine, I suppose, though it would mean no Joyous Many aiding us when wrestling Charon down to put the Crown on them.
>>
(Once I can settle down either this evening or tomorrow morning, there are a lot of excellent questions and comments I'd like to address. Also, thank you one and all for the kind words, and I'm very glad that you enjoyed this Vein, one and all.)
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>>3583667
There's another, more damning, problem, which is the Crown requires attunement, so placing it on Charon's head won't work. Maybe a Crown of 7 MAXed Halos could be used to cancel a geas on someone else, but that's even more long term.
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>>3583652
>>3583667
>>3583692
(To help with plans, a few things to note; Relics that require attunement can be equipped immediately, but if removed then they have a cool down period until the start of the next Vein before they can be equipped again by the same or a different Daughter. Second, the Geas can be nullified on Charon via the Crown, just to confirm that point. Finally, the Sparagmos Engine can disseminate a skill to those that do not have it, taking the number of levels from a single tree and seeding the same skill tree among other Daughters, though if the skill is a Core, then it only has the Lvl 20 cap on the Daughter whose Core it was originally. My apologies, I thought that would have come up regarding the engine earlier, but it did not and it slipped through the cracks.)
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>>3583692
Does it require attunement? Charon made the crown. They should already be attuned. Unless it's faded since they last wore it, I suppose.

Speaking of new Relics, the Skintalker and Hive Mistress upgrades are obvious who they go to. Who are we giving the Flesh Artisan gloves to, Dorian or Julia? I'm inclined towards Julia, raising her stack maximum to twenty-three means she can inflict total paralysis and 115% debuff to enemy attack power and accuracy. Plus, -115% Heath Regen. Combine that with Exsanguinating Leash and Red Death level five, and I'm pretty sure B'Ni won't have any regen left.
>>
i still think trying to get out entire Team out, not just Dorian, is the better bet. but i suppose its gonna be difficult enough to get just him out even if we focus on just that, and it may still be faster to carve him a path out than an entire team. still though, our focus shouldn't be on killing this thing. if we can, sure fine, but really we should be prepared to leave at a moments notice, hell having Dorian just break out and leaving immediately might still be better, as Mother can clearly see us and might happily spend another point to hinder Dorian once he is out on his own.

>>3583667
>>3583692
actually BHOP said CROWN works as a Relic anyone can wear, its if you take the Halos back out and try to use them again that they need attunement, meanig if we put Halos in then took them back out, we would still have to wait a session to use them again.

honestly? the Crowns not worth losing Halos on everyone.
buut as i typed this...
>>3583708
right, so still not worth losing it on everyone, but if were willing to sacrifice some levels later we can still use it. fair tradeoff, and im willing to do that. later. so long as we use such a loophole to not actually remove Halos from anyone.
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(Also, before anyone asks; the Halos possessed by Amara's clones only count as the one actually possessed by Amara Prime, just to clarify.)
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>>3583708
> My apologies, I thought that would have come up regarding the engine earlier, but it did not and it slipped through the cracks.
Okay, that's big. I remember it being mentioned it could distribute abilities between Daughters back when we were first introduced to the Engines, but I thought maybe that idea had been dropped since it was never mentioned on ours. Or that it was a Corrupted Engine-only feature. Well, that's very nice. Got lots of plans for that, then.

>>3583713
Getting Dorian out is getting the team out, because he'll be carrying an Escher's Gear spoke. We're not going to be sitting around down here, as soon as he's out we're teleporting after him. We'd jump immediately if we didn't want to stick around a bit to make sure he escapes okay.
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>>3583719
Can we put the Eschers gear down and then jsut remove it to move the teleportation Point to another place or will it remain there pretty much forever after we planted one?
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>>3583710
yeah, Julia is the better pick for that, if in a situation we have to pick, of course.
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>>3583708
>>3583719
So we can't abuse Joyous Many for the Crown, but can we abuse the Sparagmos Engine to empower the Crown and still have everyone wear a Halo? That is, can a Daughter donate their Halo to the Crown and then sacrifice a level of something else to get the Halo ability back? By moving points around, it would be easy to get a Tier 1 Crown out of any 7 levels.

>>3583720
It makes more sense for Dorian to catch up to or overtake Isabelle before we teleport, as he can travel much faster than the others.

>>3583710
Agree that it's probably best on Julia most of the time.
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>>3583825
i think the way the loophole would work would basically be
>One person gives thier levels to others besides the ammount needed for the level of Halos we are putting into crown.
>she puts the Halo in the Crown.
>Use engine to give her another Halo from others Halo levels of wanted level.
>she puts another in the Crown
>Repeat until Crown is full and she herself has a Halo again.

and its iffy, you're probably right but i still feel like Dorian being on his own is extremely risky, but im not seeing another option here.
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>>3583828
Yeah, it does seem scarily risky. If we have him bring a swarmling at least we can tell immediately if something goes wrong and hopefully teleport in straight away.
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>>3583839
He's already wearing a Bishop, actually. We may want to transform it to a Jackling so we can remain in mental contact with him, though.
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>>3583839
at least with Sui he has a little bit of extra armor and can amp it up if he needs. i guess we could toss the Hydra Heart on him for now too.

also we teleporting Amara and November out too? i mean, fair on not wanting to leave them in a basement with a ball of deadly corpses, but neither of them are necessary for our plan/what we think is the best team composition, and the Midnight Crew might appreciate the aid, especially if we have to jet before its dead.

we do need Amara Clones but thats only slightly hindered without Amara Prime, so we could just bring a few Clones with us out, and leave Main girl to help the Crew and November.
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>>3583847
Honestly, I'd say get everybody out. Fuck this murderbunker. Have Dorian get out, plant the spike, we pop out, give him another spike, and then off he goes chasing down B'Ni. Now is not the time to worry about whether we can recycle spikes. Make sure to convert his Bishop into a Bishop-Jackling, too. Maintain mental connection, we're going to need to use that to have Amara feed him directions. Have him burn 125% Health per turn on Sui Tormentis' speed boost, so that he's constantly accelerating. 100% Bio on Cursus Alas, too.
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>>3583868
i agree on the spikes for sure, and yeah sure that works. still get the feeling Mothers gonna try and pull something on Dorian though, so it might be a good idea for the rest to get the hummer up and running and moving, both incase we have to save him because he cant just put a spike down, and also to get ourselves moving so its harder for mother to spam Amalgams at us.

though my actual guess is shes gonna forgo wasting numerous points and waste a single one putting, say, a new mountain range under Dorians feet. extra speed or no suddenly having to go up and down numerous times is still gonna slow him down significantly.
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>>3583868
Even if we follow him there's no way to keep pace with him so we still wouldn't be able to protect him without slowing him down. We really would be better served fighting wannabe Nito because it the phalanx is based on what I think it is it might be able to chase Dorian pretty effectively if we don't stop it. Not to mention the constant movement will give Dorian a strong deterrent in his accumulated charge.
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>>3583882
to be fair being on the other side of it would help us stop it from chasing Dorian more than being stuck in a hole where it can just back up after him while we then have to chase IT down.

but i do see the merit in holding it off, just not to the point of killing it if we dont have time.
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>>3583880
Dorian is immune to rough terrain, and all his movement counts as teleportation-type. Unless Mother makes some really big obstacles, he'll just mist-dash past them. So yeah, it would have to be a mountain, that's the only thing that can stop him.

>>3583882
Sure, we can hold it off. But let's do that from the top of the elevator instead of being trapped in a confined space with the bone puppeteer.
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>>3583898
i do wonder the limitations of the teleport though, and the dangers. does he need to be able to see where he is teleporting to? or with mother moving the terrain under him, would we have to worry about him accidentally teleporting inside the mountain and either getting stuck or instantly killed via dispersion or something? id imagine he can of course teleport up to his maximum movement zones, but otherwise we dont know exactly how it works. usually not a big issues, except wee gonna have him push himself to his limits while in a situation the big bitch might more than happily do whatever she need to hinder the ability she probably as Admin knows exactly how to stop.
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>>3583935
I'm fairly certain that he doesn't actually teleport, and it's just mechanical shorthand to represent how his movement actions can't be interrupted thanks to him being a fine mist. If there were issues like that, they'd probably have come up already when fighting the Spiraling Fear. At least, I hope. Something to confirm with BHOP.
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>>3583960
indeed. though, that might mean he is even more interruptible, as his one weakness then would be strong wind or similar scattering his mist, which id think a mountain range being made under his feet would do. but yeah we shall see. damnit mother and making us pile risks on top of risks.
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>>3583966
Yeah, this is a real bitch of a situation. The crazy thing is, I was totally expecting us to not have a chance to stop Mother getting an avatar body at all, that it would be happening too distantly for us to possibly interrupt. And I was okay with that. I saw it as "huh, this is going to be a fun new chapter in the quest, dealing with an incarnate Mother". But with it being something happening right here and now, that we can possibly prevent, I'm feeling so much more anxious about the idea. Because now Mother getting a body would be a failure on our part, it's not an inevitability but just us having fucked up. Doesn't matter that the deck was stacked against us, we've still got a hand in the game, and if we lose there will be that little voice saying "you wouldn't have, if you had just been smarter".
>>
>>3583960
>>3583966
(His 'teleport' is more of a mist form than anything, and can be disrupted by powerful bursts and winds.)
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>>3583987
yeah, i completely understand. which is why we're fucking gonna fucking be the metal rod into her plans damn gears. keep trying to stop us, you bitch, keep wasting those damn points. then look down at yourself as we fucking stop Isabelle and you've run yourself dry of all you can without dying, and still couldn't stop us.

>>3584005
hrm, so yeah theres a big risk here for him. but again, im not seeing much of an alternative.
>>
Looking to the positives, every action Mother takes is permanently exhausting what little power she has over the crucible. Every obstacle we overcome is another permanent wound inflicted and if we manage to stop her plan, all her sacrifice will amount to nothing and even if we fail and Mother gains a body, her capabilities as an administrator will be crippled.
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>>3584005
Okay, so it's what I thought. That's got its positives and its negatives. Hopefully he can make it past whatever Mother puts in his way. Can Mother just make wind? I mean, probably, right? Like she uses the Crucible's heat-management systems to manipulate its atmosphere and cause a gale storm, or something like that. We'll just have to risk it. We've got one shot at this.

>>3584008
Here's hoping. Draining her resources is definitely the goal, I think. Because if she didn't have to worry about her admin resources still, why not crush us? Why just block our path and send an Amalgam after us? There's something that means that she can't just say "fuck it, I'll have a body again soon, it won't matter". I can think of three reasons why that might be.

Reason one is that she's going to still need to conserve her admin resources even after getting a body, that won't change the fact that if she overextends her authority she'll die. This is probably the worst situation, since it means that she may decide to throw caution to the wind and guarantee our death if we pose a serious enough threat to the plan.

Reason two is that she needs her admin resources to be above a certain level to initiate the transfer. "Admin becoming a player again" is probably one of the bigger rules violations the Crucible has, so she'd have to spend a lot to get past it. This is better than the first possibility, because it means that if we can force her to act in response to us we'll stop her plan, but still bad because she'll be crushing us to death. And if we stop the transfer otherwise, she can still retaliate.

Reason three is the best option for us. She's run dry. Blocking us in with an Amalgam was the most she could do, spend another token more and she's gone. If this is the case, then she can't stop Dorian's path at all. Mother can't intervene because that would mean her death. Can't stop Dorian, can't retaliate if we succeed, best case scenario. Let's hope it's this one. It probably isn't, but let's hope.
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>>3584030
id think she outright loses all admin privileges if she becomes a Daughter again, though i doubt she so cares. i do wonder, IS this Hexxane tomb her own corpse, or another? i mean, its probably stupid powerful either way, id just imagine her actual body is up top with her, but who knows. maybe its more like her real self is hooked up to a matrix like contraption, so this IS gonna be a Mother -> Isabelle transfer, to free her from it, then consume the corpse. only thing that really seems like it makes sense as i can think on it.
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>>3584041
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking it is. It's not Mother piggybacking on B'Ni's transfer to the corpse, it's Mother transferring out of the corpse. I just want to know what B'Ni thinks she'll get out of this. What's the thought process that connects her thinking the device is a Skintalking-booster to hooking it up to an ancient alien corpse? That doesn't make much sense to me.
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>>3584048
Mother is a Skintalker, is the only thing i can think of. maybe Mother said something like "hey, heres where my corpse is, if you go to it and put this device on it, its a loophole to allow me to use my Skintalker powers to aid you without breaking any rules." or something like "hey heres my old corpse i dont need. consume it and use that Skintalker Relics along with my Core and you will be invincible."

neither is perfect ill admit but both i think are at least viable options in regard to tricking someone as desperate at her to do this.
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>>3584053
It's history repeating itself. B'Ni's gotten wrapped up in the schemes of another manipulator grooming her to be her puppet, and now she's been asked to go retrieve a corpse for some nebulous purpose that hasn't been clearly explained. But she's going to go along with it anyway, because she thinks this is the only way she can have the love she's so desperate for. The only way it could be better would be if the mind-swapping device was shaped like a lava lamp. God, I hope the mind-swapper is shaped like a lava lamp. That would be too perfect.
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>>3584039
(Mother can influence the weather, yes. It's a process that has a bit of a wind-up, however.)
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>>3584061
...i kinda hope so too now.
and if we do end up having to kill Isabelle...lets smash her skull in with it.

>>3584063
well, i hope Dorian can go damn fast then. luckily form shifting is a free action so he can solidify himself if he needs to to survive, but thats still only trading the problem of instant death via dispersion for being an easier target and being slower, albeit only so much slower, but still.
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>>3584063
Yeah, makes sense, she's shifting around a lot of mass that she doesn't have direct control over. Dorian will just have to outrun the weather front.
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>>3584072
I'm hoping we can use the hexane mind-swapper mcguffin to swap the dream daughters so we can res Gina. It should work if it's able to transfer Mother's mind into a new body.
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>>3584148
oh, dont get me wrong, i wanna see if it can do that too. but as i stated before, Isabelle might not make it an option. we are gonna try and only disrupt their plans, remove the Relic and Hexxane corpse as things Isabelle has access to, and best case either Relic does what we need, or we have to wait longer to get them out of Isabelles head.

But we cant ignore either that we may have to kill Isabelle and lose those in her head. we simply cant allow whatever they are planning to come to fruition. we'll try our best, aim for the best, but shouldn't assume the best case is gonna happen.
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>>3583880
anon. we left the hummer at the eastern edge of Carroll’s Forest.
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>>3584169
fair point but not really part of the plan anymore anyways.
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>>3584039
it does bring up a question about Mother’s admin resources:
“Has there been a time in the past in the Crucible’s early stages where Mother broke the rules? Or is this the first time Mother has broken the rules?” Because I can imagine Mara forcing Mother to burn resources to stop Mara’s plans
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>>3584202
i think thats the point of Charon, for when an actual threat to the Crucible needs some ending. i mean, from what her Admin powers seem to be, sending him after us directly is probably the worst she can do even with breaking the rules. Maras done us one hell of a favor i guess.
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>>3584213
actually nah, thinking about it, Mothers breaking the Rules here, so she probably cant send Charon after us over this stuff specifically, even if Charon was not busy.
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>>3583374
(A single magazine costs 20% Generator Bio.)

>>3583446
(Indeed, this was a hard call to make, but it's common knowledge during playtesting and I realized that I was straddling the fine line between acceptable antagonist powers and things feeling utterly unfair, thus the reveal.)

>>3583416
(Thank you so much for archiving!)

>>3583640
>>3583634
(I will say you will gain access to more insights later on at a less hectic time frame. Also, you do have the journals to go over, as all three have useful tibits scattered about.)

(Also, if there are any other questions you have, please let me know.)
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>>3584235
Hey Bhop, If Mother were to break Admin rules very hard by Directly Deleting a Daughter from existence or Terraforming the Environment that directly led to the death of a Daughter player, would she be automatically purged from the system or is the resource cost for direct deletion too high for Mother's meager admin privileges? Because since the reveal, I always wondered about the hard limits.

Also, I believe you made the right call to reveal Mother's Admin system even though Shu and co. did not learn about it IC. Just letting us Anons know that something is up is enough for us to try and attempt to prepare appropriate countermeasures. Also. It does tickle my heart that showing this off means you yourself get to "roleplay" as Mother with her admin console commands.
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>>3584235
>(A single magazine costs 20% Generator Bio.)
well, that only answered part of that question, but still good to know at least that. interesting its a specific Bio type too, we'll have to keep that in mind.
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>>3584235
What about my proposed "Bolter" Magazine using Shu's Parabellum bullets? what's the cost for that?
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>>3584241
(Ah, you asked this earlier, apologies for missing it. Dealing damage to a Daughter via Admin cheating takes a massive amount of tokens. To put it in perspective, the act of brining a Daughter to 0% HEALTH would leave Mother with one token remaining if she had a full stock, and if the Daughter succeeds on the saving throws or is healed it would count as a failure on Mother's part, so she would be deleted.)

>>3584252
(For specialized rounds, they would be limited to elemental rounds dependent on the sort of Generator power used. Flame for Radiant Boil, Electricity for Accumulated Charge, etc.)
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>>3584258
(Considering that's very similar to a later-Tier upgrade to the Contender, it's not something the Goddamned Uzi is capable of, if that's what you're asking.)
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>>3584235
>(I will say you will gain access to more insights later on at a less hectic time frame. Also, you do have the journals to go over, as all three have useful tibits scattered about.)
Oh, I figured. I am very much looking forward to reading Mother and Charon's journals. But it's still disappointing to see such a beautiful place destroyed. "Get Charon the chance to practice their art again" is now one of my secondary goals for the game. It's not a high priority goal, but I want Charon to survive to the end of all this so that they can someday make a new memorial to Hexane culture bigger and better than the one Mother destroyed. Let them pass on their art, so it is not forgotten.
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>>3584259
ah, thank you. interesting limitation, but far from useless. shame we only have to elements at the moment, not even an Acid based Generator yet. still though, i can see both options so far available being useful.

>>3584258
yeah kinda figured. if i had to guess, based off what ive seen of Relic Tiers, the Uzi is actually only a Tier 2 probably, so its only the fact of how guns work that gives it any true variety at all.

most Tier 3s seem to be evolving Relics, and often continue to grow in strength and usability with the wielders growth. though granted we dont have many examples but still.
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>>3584259
So then what Relic tiers are the ones that we got from Mother's House?
>>3584291


Also, do you think it will take a betrayal from Mother to finally get Isabelle to snap out of her delusion? If so, I really want to save Isabelle from her death by Mother. Because letting Isabelle die by Mother's hands although fitting for Isabelle is one that Shu will never forgive herself for. And lets face it, Mother getting the opportunity to taunt Shu by saying she's just as bad as Mother as to let Isabelle die by Mother's hands would be salt inducing.
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>>3584310
(All are Tier 2, though the Crown is Tier 5.)
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>>3584310
honestly? i dont care. Isabelle means nothing to me, and if she dies ill feel nothing, and actually personally feel IC Shu would have no reason to feel anything either, or let Mothers taunting her over it get to her. we honest to god tried, and tried, and fucking tried to get through to Isabelle, and look how she has repayed us. she is, outright, not worth the goddamned effort, and never was, and im so goddamned tired of people wasting our time on her. shes gone, she was gone a long damn time ago, and all she is and should be seen as is a problem to be solved. a cage and villain thats holding loved ones hostage and nothing more.
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>>3584310
What we really need to do is prove Isabelle right. Endgame happening, fighting a seemingly hopeless fight against West outside the cord, our allies hold her off long enough for us to get in and ascend. Except instead of hijacking the whole thing we take the throne for ourselves.

>"Wait, Shu, what are you doing!?"

>"...My name is Sam..."

>*dies*
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>>3584310
>And lets face it, Mother getting the opportunity to taunt Shu by saying she's just as bad as Mother as to let Isabelle die by Mother's hands would be salt inducing.
How would that make Shu just as bad as Mother? We tried to help B'Ni. She refused to be helped. Any suffering she gets now is on her hands. That said, yes, I do want to point out how history is repeating itself. "B'Ni, you idiot. She's just like Sam! She's been grooming you for years, and now that she has you as an obedient puppet she wants you to retrieve a corpse for her. HOW DO YOU NOT SEE THE PARALLEL? What happened to you deserving better?" Because even if it doesn't sway B'Ni at all, I want to at least tell her that we warned her.
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>>3584310
When has being betrayed ever prompted a change in behavior from Isabelle? Sam broke her to the point of murder and she still guarded her pod like a lost puppy. She's just too inflexible to gain and kind of insight from the pain she suffers and will continue this self destructive downward spiral until either she dies or the world does.
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anyways, heres a literal shower thought i had, enjoy;

>SIMAS AMPLIFICARE; a potent Relic that takes on the shape of a mechanical bracer, strapped tightly to the wrist. At the start of Combat, until the End of Combat, the wearer may choose a single level of an Ability and Amplify its effects, in exchange for locking out all other effects and sub-abilities from the other levels of that Ability. The Amplifications potency is based on the number of levels locked out via this process, essentially condensing their power down onto the single intended effect of that Ability Level chosen. Any mechanical holes in the level chosen necessary for the chosen level to work are automatically filled in, though only to the most basic form necessary for it to function, and for Hybrids, the levels of the Abilities that formed it are both selectable, and taken into account for the number of levels the chosen Level is amplified by. It may not be too often that only a single power is needed, but when it is, one should be sure they are prepared.
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>>358443
Not a bad idea. Care to rate mine?
>EYES OF THE HORIZON: Eyes that consume the light. Eyes that see beyond death's door and the abyss beyond the veil. Eyes that see Time and space laid out with absolute clarity. A pair of eyeballs that must be transplanted on to the daughter, the Daughter wearing them gains the following effects: Gain Absolute true sight. Can access all information the daughter requires from another daughter from eye contact. All secrets are exposed. Gain mental clarity and insight to the Crucible and the Universe as if on death's door. Daughter will forever be unable to sleep as long as she wears the eyes. Removing the relic renders the daughter permanently blind, even after the daughter has regrown her own eyes for she has seen the world through the eyes of Abyssal Gods... and she sees nothing but black. Relic Tier: 5
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>>3584579
>>3584436
Gah. Mislinked.
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>>3584579
pretty neat, though not sleeping is a major drawback, well, that and obviously losing your own eyes and getting constantly flooded with information. i can see alot of use for it though yeah. another Relic i made for the Marching Vengeance almost sounds like a necessity when using those eyes though.

>DREAM-BE-GONE(Consumable); this injectable liquid is like the coffee and energy drinks of old, making one outright unable to fall asleep for upwards of 48 hours, with the side effects of such highly negated, though outright abuse of this serum over long periods can still lead to unfavorable side effects.

the idea of permanent augment Relics is a very neat idea, though, in some ways seems to be what the DOs Technology is to a minor point.
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>>3584611
Probably easier to do with Relics, honestly. It's all biomass, it's designed to work together already. No need to engineer ways for the body to control and power the implant when it can draw on the systems native to a Daughter to do that.
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>>3584628
true. interesting idea to note though, but gotta wonder whats worth permanently replacing like that. even with the Sui id imagine once it becomes permanent it might interrupt skin based abilities a little, though as i think our target for that if we do do it is Rath its probably not an issue.

speaking of Rath is still really wanna see what Alabaster can do for us. still sad no ones wanted to put levels into it.
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>>3584611
a phrase that I would like to describe the Eyes of the Horizon when using it is: "Once you go Black, you don't go back.", as in she can't use any other eyes to see except the Eyes of the Horizon.
>>3584628
Also, all of this discussion has occurred and we haven't even done our enemy analysis of FALLEN PHALANX. We ARE opening the next vein in the beginning of combat, so we need to plan accordingly to fight it and bring it down quickly even though we have planned for Dorian to go ahead on an intercept course to overtake and beat Isabelle to the Hexxane tomb.
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>>3584639
I was planning on it before I saw Erupting Grasp and Forgemistress's Fingers. Ah well, no point regretting it now. It has the potential to be a really good skill, though, especially now that Rath actually has Bio regen. We should put some levels into it at next opportunity. I want end-game Rath to be borderline indestructible.

>>3584643
>Also, all of this discussion has occurred and we haven't even done our enemy analysis of FALLEN PHALANX.
True. Honestly, I was thinking just delaying tactics while Dorian got us out of there. But we need an actual plan for that.
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>>3584643
it appears to be another mass of arms. or well, maybe bodies in general. still, besides the fact its in an enclosed space, until we actually know what abilities it might have, its the same, simple, straight forward fight as before.

cut your way past the mass of arms to hit the core, and dont get grabbed.

>>3584650
yeah. im still of the opinion 3-4 Levelable Abilities, with a max of 5, is the optimum build, but honestly im not sure if its worth fighting for anymore. im pretty sure no matter the logic i could throw behind it, were simply not gonna stop the 'shiny' effect and end up with a plethora of level one abilities we never use.
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>>3584639
Somehow, I think Dorian's a better target for Sui Tormentis. Even though Rath gets more benefits from it, I feel that Dorian can exploit the health to stat boost trait of Sui Tormentis much more easily than Rath via his insane hp regen, with this he can ramp ridiculously fast and hard if we give him enough time, health, and hp regen. His Core Ability boosts his HP and hp regen, which is perfect for Sui Tormentis abuse as more hp and hp regen means more hp to spend and use to ramp. Also, a Calcite Armory or a Fibromancer ability for Dorian once Sui gets upgraded to lvl 5 will give him a useful tool to survive and fight Solo-duels better.
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>>3584660
>yeah. im still of the opinion 3-4 Levelable Abilities, with a max of 5, is the optimum build, but honestly im not sure if its worth fighting for anymore. im pretty sure no matter the logic i could throw behind it, were simply not gonna stop the 'shiny' effect and end up with a plethora of level one abilities we never use.
In fairness, Rath has five levelable abilities. Indignant Ignition, Alabaster Endoskeleton, Erupting Grasp, Forgemistress' Fingers, and Neurotic Halo. Okay, and Neuromancy, but we're probably going to give that to Gina. I am fine with sticking to these five. Alabaster and Erupting for defense and Offense, Halo and Fingers for senses and utility, Ignition for a super mode. All together effective and thematic, I am good.
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>>3584661
i disagree. i think it thematically fits Rath and fits her build alot better. Dorian absolutely is a waste of it being armor, and honestly simply cannot put the Strength to the same potency as Rath, as his attack methods arent built around pure strength against a single target as much as Rath or Julia, nor is he the one to sit there and pummel an enemy from a single position, which the Sui and its strength, and increased defense, is extremely potent at. even the speed is still good for CC, as it gives reaction time too, which would be devastating on Julia or Rath, plus the speed would help them get into CC and chase down any enemies trying to flee from them. also a Fibromancer or Calcite an Rath would be be much much better than anyone else. also its ability to root itself in place is something only Rath or Julia would ever use to any proper potency.

in essence, Rath can make the best use out of 4/4 of its uses, at worst 3/4, Dorian can only honestly make the best sue out of 1/4 of its uses, when comparing them to each other. he may have more Regen to throw around, but what it gives out he still wont make as good use out of.

>>3584683
im fine not counting the Halo in anyone's count, as its too unique and symbolic to really count as a normal ability. but you are right, minus Neuromancy that we will never level up and are keeping just for Gina, shes not too bad. like i said, the biggest issue is convincing people to to get new abilities, less than our overall count, though i think Shus kit is a bit over burdened, Julias too maybe.
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>>3584690
Yeah, Shu and Julia need to consolidate things. Julia has some hybrids that I think are pretty logical to make (Artisan Appetites/Hungering Membrane and Bloody Ripper/Badger's Barbarism), but we still need some hefty investments to get them there. Shu we could cross Ravenous Maw and Hundred-Handed next time we're at the Sparagmos Engine, I think we should give that a shot.
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>>3584702
im not sure Ripper and Badger is actually a good one to do. i feel like Frozen and Badger, or Frozen and Ripper, would work better. the amount of them that could go into her Core are plentiful too. Appetite and Membrane is a good one too though yeah.

as for Shu, Handed and Maw is what i was originally pushing, and im willing to see what it does sure. i still think Leash and Neuromancy could be extremely good too. honestly? Drill still feels absolutely worthless to me. if we need a big Drill, we can literally combine Sawmlings in as big a variant as we want, we could literally make a Swarmling big enough to dig a tunnel large enough for us and the Midnight Crew to fit down if we so pleased. it would cost alot sure, but we have plenty of Drill ability without it or its augment type. however, id be willing to roll it into Tread, and if were going for a SPIRAL ENERGY meme theme, is probably the way to do that anyways.
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>>3584660
>>3584650
you mean "you" can't stop yourself from the "ooh shiny" effect. I keep on asking anons to hold off and hybridize those abilities at a later level, but nooo every single hybrid option that's been presented to us (except for Isabelle's hybrid choice since it was the first time it happened), all of you just jumped onto the wagon saying "gimme! bhop gimme hybrids nao!"

I jest in the sarcasm.
But in all seriousness. I honestly want to see at least two abilities in each party member leveled and hybridized at 15 so we can get more utility out of our individual abilities. The early lvl 5 hybrid just seems to only emphasize on getting better statlines instead of getting more specialized utility out of each ability besides the basics. And as a group, we're not really hurting for stats if we play our cards right.

On a personal admission Hybridization is something that has become something of a pet peeve of mine in this quest. Just like how >>3584690's pet peeve is uneven stat distributions on level ups.

Her core as a Hive mistress allows her to specialize on mono-skill tree builds without having to go for the whole hybridization fetish anons in this playerbase just have for some goddamned reason.
And even the abilities that we have at their base mono-form have proven to be devastatingly useful when the situation calls for it.

>>3584702
NO. if there's anything that I do not want hybridized, it would be Shu's kit overall. Shu's kit feels balanced because each ability tree helps her adapt to any situation very well. And each new solo ability tree gives us another modifier for us to play with on our swarm. And Hive Mistresses in general can benefit from a diverse tree of skills without having to Hybridize them. Hybridizing Shu's skill trees just mucks up our modifier library when it comes to our hive ability. I will not suffer seeing Shu's skills be consolidated into something of a one-trick pony through hybridization. Just as >>3584690 has a hardline stance, this is my hardline stance. The only reason why it feels overburdened in your perspective is because in these past fights, the plans we've submitted honestly boil down to Shu just shooting her gun at the enemy for direct damage while using her swarm and her secondary abilities as support utility for her allies.
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>>3584715
>im not sure Ripper and Badger is actually a good one to do
My logic is mostly that I want her to be Wolverine. Also, that I want Bloody Ripper's effect on claws so her health-draining attacks count as unarmed.

>i feel like Frozen and Badger, or Frozen and Ripper, would work better.
What's the reasoning there? I guess Frozen and Badger is for taking a lot of hits before returning them? And Frozen and Ripper is gathering energy from dealing damage as well as taking it?

> i still think Leash and Neuromancy could be extremely good too
Definite possibility, yeah. I want to see where Leash goes with a few more levels, but if it doesn't get what I'm looking for fast enough we should hybridize it. Honestly, if we ever get a bit of down-time when Mother isn't planning something in the background, I want to just fool around with the Engine for a bit taking a peek at higher levels.

> Drill still feels absolutely worthless to me
I'm a bit torn on drill. On the one hand, as you say we already have drills. On the other, I do like Shu being able to pull out some serious melee damage if she has to, given that her role as party leader means she has to be able to fight at any range.

>>3584734
We want hybrids to consolidate abilities and combat the shiny effect. Plus, they've all been really good.

>and Hive Mistresses in general can benefit from a diverse tree of skills without having to Hybridize them. Hybridizing Shu's skill trees just mucks up our modifier library when it comes to our hive ability.
Hybridization doesn't get rid of the original skills, it just caps them. We'd retain the modifiers. Since there's no indication that higher levels of the base skills improve the modifiers, there's no downside there if that's what you're worried about.

>The only reason why it feels overburdened in your perspective is because in these past fights, the plans we've submitted honestly boil down to Shu just shooting her gun at the enemy for direct damage while using her swarm and her secondary abilities as support utility for her allies.
Not really? We've made plenty of creative use of Hundred-Handed. Ravenous Maw just isn't flexible enough for creative use, plus it encourages getting into grappling range which Shu isn't great at. We used Fear To Tread quite effectively against Lara, I'm quite excited about that. Exsanguinating Leash we need to remember to pop earlier, but it's not itself particularly versatile in its use. And we haven't gotten a chance to use Heaven's Drill yet, but I do have some plans involving pairing it with Rook teleportation. We're plenty creative.
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>>3584734
>you mean "you" can't stop yourself from the "ooh shiny" effect.
no i have an issue with level spreading, ive explained this numerous times. if folks would stop stacking on more abilities, i wouldn't feel such a strong need to consolidate them.
yes i saw you jested but said points still stand. waiting til 15 is a ton more levels on a build we are arguing already has too many abilities.

>And as a group, we're not really hurting for stats if we play our cards right.
its not about stats, or certainly not only about them.

>Her core as a Hive mistress allows her to specialize on mono-skill tree builds without having to go for the whole hybridization fetish anons in this playerbase just have for some goddamned reason.
And even the abilities that we have at their base mono-form have proven to be devastatingly useful when the situation calls for it.
except even on her, hybridizing her secondaries still helps in a plethora of ways. its her core that it makes unnecessary to hybridize, not her secondaries. even her core can benefit, if the Hybridization gives us a sub-type of swarmling more useful than the types given before.

>NO. if there's anything that I do not want hybridized, it would be Shu's kit overall.
just like i lose out on votes, this is a voting based system so just like mine your hardline stance means nothing and will be outvoted.

>The only reason why it feels overburdened in your perspective is because in these past fights, the plans we've submitted honestly boil down to Shu just shooting her gun at the enemy for direct damage while using her swarm and her secondary abilities as support utility for her allies.
thats just blatantly wrong and ignores numerous arguments for why people want to consolidate and hybridize and you know it. hell id argue alot of what you are saying here ignores past arguments.

hell id even be fine with the argument that instead of hybrids, we should cut out abilities on people and dump the levels into others, but no one wants to do that, while they are ok with hybrids, so i pick the option i can get people to agree to and compromise on to get us where i feel we need to be.
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>>3584749
>My logic is mostly that I want her to be Wolverine. Also, that I want Bloody Ripper's effect on claws so her health-draining attacks count as unarmed.
if Ripper goes onto Badger, sure i see the logic, but if Badger goes onto Ripper, i dont think it will be very good.

>What's the reasoning there? I guess Frozen and Badger is for taking a lot of hits before returning them? And Frozen and Ripper is gathering energy from dealing damage as well as taking it?
with Ripper, my thought was each strike would instead build up a charge, instead of each time we are hit. with badger honestly its just more a consolidation method, i cant see the hybrid being much different than either on their own, but that wouldn't be bad at all in my opinion, just not very flashy or interesting.

>I'm a bit torn on drill. On the one hand, as you say we already have drills. On the other, I do like Shu being able to pull out some serious melee damage if she has to, given that her role as party leader means she has to be able to fight at any range.
i just feel like Maw and Handed,especially now, can both fufill that role better than a big, cumbersome drill can. Drills have to have something hold the enemy still so it can work its way in and tear up their insides. granted, we do have said methods to hold them still, but said methods can also deal out the damage aswell.

>>3584734
>Hybridization doesn't get rid of the original skills, it just caps them. We'd retain the modifiers. Since there's no indication that higher levels of the base skills improve the modifiers, there's no downside there if that's what you're worried about.
yeah what other Anon said is an oversight i forgot to mention. hybridizing her Secondaries actually just gets us MORE augment types, not less. it actually helps her Core and the reason for not hybridizing it tremendously, especially seeing as how the augment types do not seem to level up with the secondary abilities.
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>>3584769
>Drills have to have something hold the enemy still so it can work its way in and tear up their insides. granted, we do have said methods to hold them still, but said methods can also deal out the damage aswell.
This is an anime giga drill, it goes right through the target. Still going to be pretty cumbersome, yes, though I hope that can be fixed with more levels. My current plan for using it is to rev it up on the back lines, then castle with a Rook to be suddenly up in the enemy's face with it.
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>>3584779
eh, i dunno. i dont even dislike it, it just, feels so unnecessary and like its role in Shus kit is already filled pretty heavily. it just feels like something we can easily do without and can do at least well enough with other methods.

i just would never want to put a level into it over Maw or Handed is my personal take on it.
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>>3584787
>>3584779
kinda wish we had given it to Rath, if anyone. the SPIRAL ENERGY theme fits Shu better, but practicality i can see Rath putting it to much better use....if her kit wasnt already full that is.
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>>3584660
>>3584650
Besides the obvious surface level analysis of
>it appears to be another mass of arms. or well, maybe bodies in general. still, besides the fact its in an enclosed space, until we actually know what abilities it might have, its the same, simple, straight forward fight as before.
cut your way past the mass of arms to hit the core, and dont get grabbed.

It has Several Skintalker Runes that Amara hasn't learned yet. Killing the Amalgam will give Amara new words to play with since bhop said that the amalgam has them.
>The narrow hall opens up into a space far larger than the humble entrance suggested, and you find your painter standing before a series of ten statues arranged in a semi-circular configuration, each one set in a recessed alcove in the golden walls. Every figure is distinctly humanoid, their bare skin instead resembling your own chitinous armor, faces angular and sharp…pointedly, proudly Hexane.
It spawned from the Memorial Hall and is made from pieces of the Ten Hexxane Statues. it can spawn 10 highly specialized puppet constructs to fight our group. In a game of numbers, it's Shu, Dorian, November, Amara (and her clones), Jack, Ace, Keane, and Quinn (8 fighters) against 10 Hexxane terracotta puppet soldiers.
>Small tendrils of biomass have crept in through the walls, their encroachment evident in the hair-line cracks that splinter along the statues’ joints.
>A scarlet mass of pulsing tissue is nestled in the center of the shifting, vibrating mass composed of the Hexane Memorial, their effigies dancing about like obscene puppets tugged along by crimson strings.
The Amalgam is implied to be able to control and arrange them to fight like a group using Small unit tactics by puppetry via Biomass in the cracks of the statue.
>PHALANX OF THE FALLEN
The Amalgam's task isn't to kill us, it's to delay us and hinder us. It has very good Defenses and will prioritize in attrition tactics. Any attempts to escape and leave it will be to our disadvantage as it can easily surround us if one of us is isolated.
>Location: We are in the entertainment area. The Tunnel exit is sealed by a Calcite Wall. We could theoretically break through it. The Phalanx best operates when it has only one direction to worry about that's why it fills up the width of the hallway.
Also, the puppet limbs probably don't count as Constructs, they count as "PROPS".

Things to watch out for:
We can't afford to split up lest we get surrounded. Amara is a support based daughter without much fighting ability aside from Queen Crimson and the Sternutation cannon, Dorian may have difficulty fighting in an enclosed Space since his playstyle is largely hit-run and the statue puppets are props instead of constructs. November is best used as purely a ranged character. Having statues make dents in her forge-body will hurt November more than November can hurt Phalanx. The Midnight Crew despite their team-oriented tactics aren't that well suited for group combat.
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>>3584812
>It has Several Skintalker Runes that Amara hasn't learned yet. Killing the Amalgam will give Amara new words to play with since bhop said that the amalgam has them.
wishful thinking as we simply dont have time to guarantee a kill on it.

>Dorian may have difficulty fighting in an enclosed Space since his playstyle is largely hit-run and the statue puppets are props instead of constructs.
if Dorian is fighting in the thick of it instead of waiting for our opening to escape, we have already lost
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>>3584812
>The Amalgam's task isn't to kill us, it's to delay us and hinder us. It has very good Defenses and will prioritize in attrition tactics. Any attempts to escape and leave it will be to our disadvantage as it can easily surround us if one of us is isolated.
Open with an Alpha Strike, then? November fires the Autumn Protocol followed by Shu hitting it with a Heaven's Drill. We're going to want to summon the drill to get through the wall anyways.
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>>3584827
im actually all for that. thing needs to die fast, or get stalled fast, and getting hit by a giant death beam will for sure at least give us an opening id imagine. i suppose we can use the Drill on it, but we either need to Terraform the opening back up for Dorian, use Drillings to get it open for him, or get him and an Amara clone past the Phalanx so he can use the elevator. granted, the last one is the worst option actually, as we need the tunnel to get closer to Isabelles path to follow, but it would still be better than nothing.

we also need to get him out of here Turn One. all we got needs to go to getting him out Turn One. we dont do that, its already too much time wasted.
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>>3584853
Terraforming might not work, if I was Mother I'd harden the wall against others manipulating it. Let's go for drilling the tunnel open, instead of Shu attacking the Phalanx. The follow up can be Ace hitting it with her shiny new ax.

Also, the Aurtumn Protocol has a brief charge-up time, we need to keep it busy until she's ready to fire. Preferably a way that doesn't leave anyone in the line of fire. Grapplings sound good to you? Get in the melee with the puppets, tie them down with sprouted arms?
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>>3584871
sounds reasonable on both accounts. can even have Dorian and Keane add in their usual to help, id imagine in such a tight area it would be easy to basically glue it to a wall. Keeps Dorian back too until he needs to shift forms to run.

make sure November aims for that glowing core it seems to have, albeit thats probably a given.
>>
Anyways, here's the situation if I can remember the House layout correctly:
From Shu's perspective at the Elevator Entrance:
>Layout is a long hallway.
>Bedrooms to the left.
>A Hallway to the Conference Area and the Memorial to the right.
>at the end of the hall (up ahead) is the Entertainment Area. The Armory is located further down behind the Entertainment area.
>There is a Breach in the wall in the Entertainment Area.
And where we are now and the Amalgam is at:
>The Amalgam came from the Memorial area, it's blocking the path to the Elevator (we certainly won't use it in this situation).
>Shu's Family and the Midnight Crew are in the Entertainment Area. We will likely start the Opening Round of Combat like this.
>The Amalgam is in the middle of a long hallway having just exited the hallway to the Memorial room. I estimate that we have either a short distance or a medium distance between us and the Amalgam before we have to engage in melee. Long distance if we're lucky.
>There is a Sealed Calcite Tunnel in a wall at the Entertainment area. This is our escape route. Breaking through this barrier will deprive Mother one Administrator Token.

>>3584877
The Issue is with the Charge time Autumn Protocol and the fact that the amalgam can shift the location of it's massive core is that we only have one shot.
I propose having Shu spawn a Stealthed Jackling and Paralyze the Amalgam's core to prevent it from moving around.
As for Slowing it down, Keane's Mucus and Dorian's Paint Constructs could slow it down, or slice off the puppet strings of the Amalgam.
Amara and her clones can shout a spell chorus that makes the Terrain hinder the Amalgam's Movements or concentration (Gra Ter Rho Cunt) or (Gra Rho Cunt) (Gra Fol Cunt) and hasten our allies depending on the amount of clones Amara has.
>>3584871
And have Mother waste another Admin Token? She could do that, but it might seem like a waste if it's to simply shut Shu and Amara out of Neuromantic Terraforming options
Shu will have to spend 1 action spawning and priming the Drill to pierce the Tunnel seal.
Another Actions dedicated on Swarmling Control, and an additional action
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>>3584894
id think activating the paralyzation might still take up Shus last Act, even if it is through a Jackling.

but overall yeah seems good. might need a little bit of adjusting here and there depending on how the fight actually opens up once it starts, but as far as we can plan out now seems as good as we can actually get. not saying you are wrong at all about what the Amalgam can do either mind you, but until we actually see it in action we really dont know what its gonna throw at us, which sucks but such is how it goes. the only good news i can think of is that due to it not being made of Biomass, it might not be able to repair itself very well. however i think the place we are in might also be somewhat naturally resistant to terraforming, as its not the fleshscape either, so some of that might not work or might cost extra to do.
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>>3584899
I am still of the opinion that alpha striking with the Autumn Protocol will leave us in relative dire straits if the Vector Cannon misses the Core or gets interrupted by the Amalgam.

We could have Amara ask the House to purge the Statues as the biomass has encroached the statues and made it become a rogue amalgam.
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>>3584894
>I propose having Shu spawn a Stealthed Jackling and Paralyze the Amalgam's core to prevent it from moving around.
I'm open for this idea. We should definitely have Amara try to Skintalk a solution, too. What exactly does it mean that two of her words are enhanced by her new necklace? Are they more effective, harder to resist, what? Because that may let us overcome any resistances the Phalanx might have.
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>>3584915
im not sure Amara can do that. doesnt seem like something her ability say it can do. maybe if it was higher level, but probably not as it is now.

also i think if ever there was a time to use the Autumn, it is now. it could potentially end this fight before it starts, and certainly without a shadow of a doubt will shorten the fights length and give us an opening. we do not have the time to dilly dally or not take risks. yes, we make sure it gets the best shot it can get, but now is the time to take that shot, and make it count. now is not the time to hesitate, or hold back our punches.

We also dont plan to have November in the Isabelle fight so her recharging wont be an issue either.
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>>3584925
i think it means of the words in her library, two of them are given enhanced effects, while making reducing the cost of a word in the Library to Zero bio and a Free action.
Speaking of which, we should talk about which words to enhance and what word to reduce the cost to Zero bio and a free act:

I think we should enhance Rho and Gra while making Fol a Free word since it's the most expensive word in current library.
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>>3584947
>I think we should enhance Rho and Gra while making Fol a Free word since it's the most expensive word in current library.

sure, i see the logic behind that.

also on a only slightly related note, Rev is kinda worthless. i sat there trying to figure out a use for it earlier, even using the Whistle to try and string more words together, but so far it has no use. all Words already take into account if a target is an ally or enemy, or already has its counterpart basically. so far the only thing i can see it as is a stand-in for a word you haven't found yet, but even that so far hasn't come up, as again, even new words, what little we have found, seem to follow the same path of knowing the difference between allies and enemies.
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>>3584956
Rev is useful for reversing any debuffs on an and converting it into a buff on an ally if you chain (Rev Rho Tha), or turning enemy buffs into debuffs (Rev Cunt).

So imagine Isabelle hitting Shu and inflicting hp Regen Nullification, slap a (Rev Rho Tha) onto Shu. That Regen nullification has now doubled your current regen.
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>>3584956
Heck, with the proper discovered word vocab, Amara could basically make an enemy's attack backfire with the phrase (Cunt, [insert attack concept], Rev). Creative usage of Rev is there. It's just that we're lacking the right vocab words.
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>>3584947
Agreed. We use all those words fairly often, I'm good on enhancing them.

>>3584956
If it reverses the purpose of a word while keeping the pattern of "helpful towards friend, harmful towards enemy" I can see it having some use. Like if Rev Rho removed resistance on enemies so they overshot because they had too much freedom of movement, or helped allies by summoning obstacles around them to create cover. Things like that.
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>>3584966
>>3584968

im not sure about that, as Rev reverses the effects of the word following it, not anything on the person.
Rev Rho Tha
becomes
Hinder Ally
as Rho is Aid when its an ally usually, but with Rev its meaning becomes reversed.

for Cunt X Rev, Rev then is a waste of resources as it then does nothing, as its only effect is reversing the word following it.

>>3584971
im still thinking thats wrong. if it reverses Rhos meaning, it means Rho now helps enemies and hinders Allies. same with other words, as again, Rev itself has no indication of Ally or Enemy, and BHOP has stated her Words and their effects CAN negatively effect allies if not specified that they wont.
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>>3584971
>>3584981
(I'll address these questions in the morning, as I posted a reply and then realized I needed some sleep. Rest well, everyone.)
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>>3584982
ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff then why even point out we have to be careful with how we use the lexicon to not affect allies negatively if anytime it might matter you just change it to not matter?

alright my bad for going off of past info we were given then.
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>>3584987
(I mis-read the statements, so please ignore my earlier reply. Apologies for the miscommunication on my part.)
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>>3584990
grah, no, im being an ass with that last statement, i apologize. it just becomes frustrating when things get jumbled like this.
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>>3584981
Right, my second example was wrong. Sorry, late, should probably go to bed. If it reversed Rho and turned "obstacle" to "clear path" then the effect on allies would help us get out of traps.

Ah, and that is the intent >>3584982. Okay, so RHO turns from "obstacle" to "clear path". SAN turns from "hasten" to "slow" (we should have Amara cast a GRA SAN THA on Dorian, by the way). SUTH turns from "calm" to "fervor". CUNT and THA switch meanings. I have no idea what TER becomes. "Individual object" instead of "location", maybe? REV probably just turns into the Crucible calling you a smartass. GRA turns from "escalate" to "diminish". And FOL from "focus" to "confusion", I guess.
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It's getting late. Lets sleep. We'll need the rest because I have the feeling this next vein is basically "Heist in Kosi City 2.0" Except we're trying to steal the corpse of a God's intended vessel.
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>>3585001
We've got a week before the next Vein. We're not hurting our performance in the quest, just our jobs in the morning. But yeah, we should go to sleep.
>>
Good night, everyone.
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>>3585001
>>3585006
ive got nothing to wake up to, but yeah, not tire or not, i think taking a breather wouldn't hurt.

>>3585000
we'll see in the morning how it work it seems.

>>3585009
sleep well.
>>
(Sleep well, everyone. I wish you a good night's rest and an even better day tomorrow.)
>>
In the meanwhile, some Neuromancers. I think I have four classes left.

>A brain in a flesh jar. Has low health but can detach itself from the body and pilot it remotely with no worry of taking damage. Maybe she use terraforming to make a golem body in case the brain is found.
>Body control tattoos like Zommary from Bleach. The daughter splashes the foe with ink which seeps into the skin and hijacks the nerves.
>A unique form of terraforming equating to weather manipulation. Has coral-like smoke stacks growing out of her from which clouds come out of thanks to a Generator power to supplement it.
>Has an antenna growing out of her head. Can control what she plants smaller antennas into. More range and preparations but less adaptability.
>A Hive Mistress hybrid that makes nerve tapeworms that are ingested by the victim and take control from the inside.
>A mind-flayer daughter Gluttonous hybrid that erases the thoughts and memories of Daughters she gets her hands on, eating their memories.
>Hybrid with a Vitruvian, giving her a decentralized brain throughout her body that eliminates the head as a critical target and thus gives her a level of crit resistance, as well as giving immunity to stuns.
>A daughter that makes fishing hooks which literally pull out nerves and paralyse body parts.
>A daughter that has a scanner that tells her a Daughter’s power level (the number of skill points she’s acquired, but not what she’s used them on).
>Neuromancer hybridized with Flesh Crafter. Terraforming works on constructs to warp them further, treating it as FA shaping.
>A capstone Neuromancer focused on terraforming. Can move, levitate and shape the terrain at will and with great speed, traveling on a floating island moved by her power.
>Creating acupuncture needles to stick in foes and restricts or control movements of opponent the following round.
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>>3585544
How about literal Psykers that turn daughters into Chaos Spawn Amalgams?
And you can't forget about Neuromancer Generator Hybrids that use elemental abilities with their neuromancy. The ones that do survive the deadly combination should be daughters of either badass, crazy, or just plain lucky.
>>
I really can not think of anything right now to add to the plan so i will post the Relics i thought up while on a trip out of town

1. Relic(this one was inspired by warhammer 40Ks Dark Eldar and a species of freakish monsters from a book i read once)

Hydras Claws

When created this relic takes the Form of a bottle of Nail Polish with a brush to apply it onto ones Finger Nails and six small, empty vials made from the crystallized fluids of a Humoral Paladin
By Applying the Nail Polish to both finger Nails and taking in the vials either by inserting them directly into the body through an open wound or swallowing them
The Fluid and Vials react to the body they inhabit and begin the transformation

Level 1
The User is able to extend their Fingernails into razorsharp claws of the Colour of a deep green Emerald made up of toxins their Body produces which is being collected in the vials, which show themselves upon the outer side of the users lower arms.
Each Vial fills itself over time with a rate of one Vial per Day. Each Vial can be used to create one full Hand of Claws that deal high Slashing damage. These Claws are as Hard as Calcite Weapons when striking against Calcite or other hardened Materials such as Relics. If they strike Flesh however they turn brittle like glass and shatter inside the wound breaking off and fracturing further inside the wound.
and microscopic shards of razor sharp crystals into the target entering its Bloodstream and causing heavy Bleeding over time. If a target tries to remove the claws they find it difficult as the claws are so brittle after entering a target
as to crumble upon touching flesh.
Each Vial can be refilled by exposing oneself to poisons as the vials help with blood filtration(any poison will do, such as Alcohol) reducing the effects of poisons on the user
(Humoral Paladin +70%, Unnatural Predator +20%, Generator +40%)

Level 2
The Claws grow more attached to the user and are capable of creating a far more potent and concentrated poison. The poisons increased potency causes excrucitaing pain upon injection, disrupting concentration for as long as they are not removed
In Addition the Claws start growing wicked barbs and serrated edges to better rend their opponents flesh. Foes hit by them that are not higly resistant to slashing damage will find that the wounds caused by these weapons bleed profusely and regenerate only slowly
(Base Cost + Humoral Paladin +80%, Unnatural Preadator +40%, Generator +30%)

Level 3
Upon reaching this Level the Claws retain their Sturdiness while being composed of much less material increasing the Available Charges per Vial to three. It retains its effects of causing pain but alters it as the poison it creates now could be considered a sickness that seeks out the Victims Vital Organs and starts multiplying rapidly inside them. Hijacking Cells and reprogramming them to start producing more poison before they inevitably die and release the created poison.

(1/2)
>>
Level 3
The fangs grow to become a second set of Jaws that helps with intoning and pronuciation and can be collapsed while not in use to hide from plain view.
The Venom of the Bearer can make minor alterations during flight to more precisely land where its user wants it to, increasing the effective range by 3 Movement Zine both for accuracy and max Range
The Venom also will no longer splash around the impact zone but congeals on the ground. If someone steps onto the venom on the ground they will find themselves pretty much glued to the ground and signifacntly slowed
(Level 2 cost + Unnatural Predator +40%, Skintalker +60%)

Level 4
Growing into the mouth area of the user the Jaws become one with the users anatomy(the fangs are still retractable)
The User becomes aware of words they didnt know before if they werent a skin talker(becoming able to talk and understand the Fleshscape even if they are not as good at it as a real skin talker) or finds it much easier to talk to the Fleshscape using their second set of jaws.
While Spitting the User finds that his Venom can easily control its flight to accuratly hit a target where it was supposed to. It can also splash afterwards ignoring any Daughters that are considered friendly by the wielder (though still suffering from a loss in accuracy)
(level 3 cost + Skintalker +80%, Unnatural Predator +20%)

(3/3)
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>>3585575
(Level 2 Cost + Humoral Paladin +20%, unnatural Predator +80%, Generator +60%)
Forgot the last Cost for the level up to max level
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>>3585575
this ones pretty neat, but sounds like it would make more sense adapted into an Ability rather than a Relic, especially with basically starting out having to be integrated into the body.

>>3585578
>>3585580
kinda similar with this one. very neat idea, but feels like it would fit better adapted into an ability rather than a relic.

both are really good ideas dont get me wrong, just they dont feel like they mesh as well being Relics. also i feel like you could expand your naming conventions beyond just hydras, and personally the effects described dont really sound like most hydras to me.

>>3585544
the fishing hooks sounds like a horror show and actually...ok im not sure how to say this without making a bloody pun dammit but still good show on that one especially.
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>>3585601
The Claws are named in Homage the Hydra Gauntlets of the Wych Cults from Warhammer 40k and they become more dangerous to the Enemy when they get "destroyed"

I kind of envisioned them to be a set with the Heart but you are absolutely right i need to get a lot more creative with these names(I am horrible at things like that though)
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>>3584990
Hey Bhop, how many amara clones do we have with Shu at the moment?
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>>3585635
im gonna say at least 1. maybe 3.
also im posting this more to see if the sites backup than anything.
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>>3585635
(You have three, currently.)
>>
so, much as its terrible to think about, but if we do arrive too late, and either Mother is in Isabelle, or vise versa...do we fight or back off for now? id personally say try and fight but ive got a feeling whatevers gonna happen here is gonna create something probably tougher than Isabelle or the Spiral, as id imagine that Hexxane Corpse has some damn power stored inside it.

i suppose depending on how its works, its possible we get there too late to stop the transfer of mind but(so long as its into Isabelle, not into the corpse), not too late to stop the power up via consuming the corpse, to which we could then probably take that on.
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>>3584825
We have plenty of time to kill it. No fight so far has lasted even ten rounds and generously assuming 30 secs per round that puts upper-end fight length at 5 mins. Isabelle has a 1 hour head start on us. If we succeed at killing the Phalanx, it will be long before Dorian catches up. We should kill it for words and levels that could help in dealing with Mother, and to waste Mother's token.

>>3584927
I think it would be better to hold off on the Autumn for a round or two, as it becomes stronger the more November uses the Porcupine first and if it doesn't wipe the Phalanx out in one shot (which is unfortunately unlikely, I don't think Mother would waste resources on something she knew would take us seconds to destroy) it leaves November seriously weakened. If we can wear and slow the Phalanx down a bit first, then deliver a powered-up Autumn with less chance of missing, we can still hopefully finish the fight quite quickly.

>>3584734
>>3584750
You guys worry too much. I agree that level-spreading is not good, and hybridizing early can also be problematic, but we have a Sparagmos Engine. It is in our best interest to CONSUME new abilities, because if they turn out not be worth it we can swap the levels out for something else, but if we don't get them they're lost forever. It is in our best interest to hybridize early, because hybrids are strong and we can unhybridize and rehybridize at higher levels when we have the points to do so.
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>>3586379
>We have plenty of time to kill it.
i disagree. in any time crunch, you need to fight as if every second counts, because it does.

>I think it would be better to hold off on the Autumn for a round or two,
i severely disagree. we dont have time to waste, and its a move better used to end a fight before it begins, not at the end or after its been weakened. its a move made for when you dont have time to not kill something quickly.

>It is in our best interest to CONSUME new abilities,
i again severely disagree. even with the engine, we still can and will get stuck in positions where we cannot use it for long periods of time. we have to make the hard decisions of deciding which abilities are worth leveling and which are not. many we can tell right away if it will mesh well or not, and its gonna do us no good to waste levels and resources we need on piling on a bunch of abilities we simply will not end up using. thinking like yours is exactly the problem and will end extremely poorly for us if not kept in check.
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>>3586366
I don't know. I'm thinking we try to fight, and if things go bad we teleport on out of there with Escher's Gear.

>>3586379
>We have plenty of time to kill it. No fight so far has lasted even ten rounds and generously assuming 30 secs per round that puts upper-end fight length at 5 mins. Isabelle has a 1 hour head start on us. If we succeed at killing the Phalanx, it will be long before Dorian catches up.
The Phalanx feels like a delaying tactic to me, rather than something meant to kill us. Which means that Mother thinks it's viable that this brief bit of time in which we're fighting it is all the time B'Ni needs to reach the Corpse. So we can't waste any time.

>If we can wear and slow the Phalanx down a bit first, then deliver a powered-up Autumn with less chance of missing, we can still hopefully finish the fight quite quickly.
Honestly, I want to hit it with a giant plasma cannon not so much as to kill it immediately (though that will be nice), but to force it to have to deal with the fact that we just hit it with a giant plasma cannon, instead of trying to impede us. Give us a chance to exfiltrate Dorian and get him on his way.
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>>3586404
>>3586396
>>3586379
yeah thats another thing about the Phallanx and the Cannon, you have to remember our main goal is not to kill it, but to keep it busy to give Dorian his chance to escape which NEEDS to happen turn one. the Cannon WILL, regardless of its ending effects, more than give us that opening. i outright guarantee you nothing else in our arsenal will be able to give us as much an opening as it, regardless of ending damage output.
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>>3586396
>in any time crunch, you need to fight as if every second counts, because it does.
I don't mean to imply that we can take our time with the fight, only that we're not so time pressured that fighting is not an option.

>we dont have time to waste, and its a move better used to end a fight before it begins, not at the end or after its been weakened.
I agree with this but I don't share your confidence that we can finish this fight in one round. Better to hold off for a round or two and finish it quickly than waste a powerful move at the start and end up taking longer overall. What would you say the odds are of Autumn one-shotting the Phalanx round one?

>thinking like yours is exactly the problem and will end extremely poorly for us if not kept in check.
I think this is an exaggeration. Grabbing every ability we can get our hands on would be stupid and is not what I'm advocating. I just think that your hardline stance is unnecessary - we should be taking abilities that sound worthwhile, even if it means temporarily having more than 5 abilities. The corollary to this is that we should be more critical about the abilities we have picked up so far (and those we get in the future) and pare them down when possible. (I would shed no tears for Heaven's Drill, Sternutation Cannon, Neuromancer (on Dorian and Rath), Erupting Grasp, Hungering Membrane or Artisanal Appetites).
>>
>>3586404
>>3586415
Now that it is an argument I can get behind: even if it's wasted in terms of finishing the fight early, spending Autumn on getting Dorian out is worth doing.
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>>3586449
for the first two, see
>>3586415
>>3586404
its not about just the opportunity to one shot it, its that without a doubt the Autumn is a powerful too of distraction. even if it only does some damage the Amalgams gonna be busy with having a giant power cannon shot at it in an enclosed space for sure.
>>3586460
well, there you go haha.

>>3586449
>I think this is an exaggeration.
ill admit maybe i did over exaggerate, its just i still in my opinion have not seen an argument that....fuck my dyslexia....er, properly counteracts? my arguments for keeping builds focused and trying to prevent excessive level spreading, aswell as getting stuck, even temporarily, with a bunch of abilities we simply wont use.

>(I would shed no tears for Heaven's Drill, Sternutation Cannon, Neuromancer (on Dorian and Rath), Erupting Grasp, Hungering Membrane or Artisanal Appetites).
i agree the Drill is really not worth keeping, aswell as Sternutation Cannon. but for the Drill, and many abilities, people seem heavily against outright getting rid of them, hence my push for early Hybrids in part, as it seems to be a compromise more can get behind, and certainly isnt the worst way to consolidate the number abilities down, though yes it does cost more levels which may not be worth it all the time.

for example, there really isnt any good combos for Sternutation Cannon, or the aforementioned Neuromancy. however for the Neuromancy, we can keep it around to give back to Gina...unless we lose her here.

ill admit Erupting Grasp does feel like a minor redundancy on Rath, but it can still stack with Ignition and be used outside of Ignition so its far from worthless. but its Nikus core so it feel right for Rath to have it, so im fine keeping it for thematic and IC personal reasons.

im not getting rid of Hungering Membrane. i think its an excellent defensive option on Julia and wish to keep it on her. its also Gemmas core so at worst we would condense it down for stats, like worse case with Erupting Grasp. however, i can see your point on Appetites, as she both isnt our Forge Mistress and we REALLY dont run itno enemy Relics all too often. id imagine because Forging leaves you vulnerable if not in a safe habitat, and both of those are something the less friendly daughters dont get often. i think the plan is to roll it into Membrane though, as i can see them working well together.

i also, and again alot of this is because people are more willing to Hybrid than outright delete, which is also why i fight against taking new abilities, is that Drill int Tread might be very good, and make the SPIRAL ENERGY themes increase dramatically.
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>>3586500
i just thought of a good name for jack-lings used for wireless Neural communication: Comm-lings.
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>>3586666
random but dem digits dont lie. Comm-lings indeed.
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>>3586500
You make some good points and I agree that most of these abilities don't need to go, but it'd be nice if we could precommit to not investing more points in most of them for the time being, to limit spread. I suppose the problem is that it's very difficult to follow any strategy for distributing points as even if we could somehow all agree on 3 or 4 abilities per character now, minds change, and people come and go, and some CONSUME options are really shiny. Nothing to do but get excited for the cool abilities we get regardless haha.

>counteracts? my arguments for keeping builds focused and trying to prevent excessive level spreading
(I'd probably go with 'refutes' here.) I don't disagree with your arguments, keeping builds focused is important, but it can be taken too far. We should generally be picking up Cores (even if it's just to refine them and to keep Daughters around) and good statics and augments. It'll be interesting to see how things go next time we get a significant number of levelups as it'll be the first time we do so while already having too many abilities, maybe focusing will be more popular?
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>>3586673
well, you're right but it never hurts to try. i think another major factor is, we dont actually know what anything will give us so choosing what Ability to focus on next is a difficult decision to make. i mean, many Abilities at random levels basically give whole new sub-abilities, while at other just as random levels they can give us just minor upgrades to past things or something completely new but passive, like Maws Health increase upon kills. obviously we can like certain abilities and want to see what they give us, but knowing if they are the right choice to actually dump levels into is another matter. id actually argue some abilities worth keeping around have still given us individual levels that arent really worth it in any other way but getting to further possibilities.

>Cores
well, the thing with cores is, like with the Hatter, its worth not taking(Consume options aswell) to make sure we do not let certain Daughters survive, though that may be rare i think it is something to keep in mind. as many others have stated, i do think its also important to know whos head we are sticking someone in when we pick a core. many Cores id also argue arent going to be worth it except for the stats, and should be condensed down at the Engine, but this also means there is an argument to still skip over them if the ability is bad and other options make more sense.

>maybe focusing will be more popular?
> some CONSUME options are really shiny. Nothing to do but get excited for the cool abilities we get regardless haha.
im not hopeful honestly. and personally the shiny effect hits my enjoyment of the process significantly but thats just me. we simply never are gonna use everything and many things will be completely and totally pushed aside and wasted, and i suppose for me seeing choices made that i know will lead to that miffs me more than it probably should.

i mean, despite how powerful it could be, when was the last time we used the fact we can combine Swarmlings indefinitely into bigger and more powerful versions of themselves in combat? basically never. the only time its really been done is making Amaras Guardian FuzzBuzz. and this is just a single example out of who knows how many details, on abilities we wish to keep, let alone we dont care about or will take in the future.
i think i may just be a bit of a pessimist, heh.
>>
Back from work. Work was surprisingly...light/smooth for a restaurant on wednesday night
>>3585945
>three Amara clones
Hey Bhop, when Amara summons a clone, does the clone suffer from "summoning sickness" (basically unable to use actions in the same turn it spawns)?
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>>3586708
>well, you're right but it never hurts to try. i think another major factor is, we dont actually know what anything will give us so choosing what Ability to focus on next is a difficult decision to make. i mean, many Abilities at random levels basically give whole new sub-abilities, while at other just as random levels they can give us just minor upgrades to past things or something completely new but passive, like Maws Health increase upon kills. obviously we can like certain abilities and want to see what they give us, but knowing if they are the right choice to actually dump levels into is another matter. id actually argue some abilities worth keeping around have still given us individual levels that arent really worth it in any other way but getting to further possibilities.
In theory, now that we have the Sparagmos Engine we could use downtime to experiment with rearranging levels and making hybrids until we know the complete tree for every skill and possible hybrid skill we have, before setting our skills to an optimized build taking into account where they can develop to. In practice, this is probably actually a terrible idea because it would be the Great Spiraling Fear Level Up times a hundred. We'd spend so much time on that.
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>>3586755
>>3586708
>>3586673
As much as I hate to point this out, we can't reliably rely on having a Purified Sparagmos Engine with us. Our house isn't impregnable, Claire knows how to enter it, Magpie knows how to enter it. Sometime down the line in the future, we're gonna face an event at our house that renders the Engine unavailable for us to use.
The Monastery getting consumed/destroyed is a proven example that even "safe havens" can be susceptible to destruction. So lets treat our mountain home like another Monastery (a place susceptible to destruction).
The other issue is that spending time slots to experiment with the Engine to optimize our build by mucking around and exploring every GODDAMN HYBRID is time spent dilly dallying.

Also, I thought up of a relic:
>HIVE-PHONE: A phone in the shape of a Hive Mistress Construct. It has a series of raised shells/bumps/buttons on its belly. pressing the buttons in a combination sends out a Thoughtform call that attracts constructs of other Hive Mistress-class daughters. If a construct is within range of the phonecall, the line is automatically picked up and connected between the caller and receiver allowing wireless thoughtform communication on a secure channel. Phone comes in several different skins, the japanese rhinoceros Beetle serving as is the relic's default skin. More biomass can be put into crafting to boost the Relic's signal strength. Can you hear me now? Good.
Relic Tier 2-3 (50/75/100/125% Hive Mistress, 50/75/100/125% Neuromancy)
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>>3583708
BHOP, can we only disseminate levelable abilities, or also one-offs like Resilient Spiral? What about augmentations if the recipient has a similar base ability, like giving Sloughing Armor to Julia?

Also, I've been wondering about how corruption works when hybridizing. If you always hybridize by level 10, can you put off corruption indefinitely?

The description of Tier 1 Neurotic Crown confirms the existence of mental corruption so maybe we should avoid letting Ignition go over 10 via repeated hybridization.

>>3586755
Yeah, I would love to see all the combinations, but it would be so much work for BHOP if we wanted all the flavour text and the quest would grind to a halt. Perhaps we could ask about a few and get basic descriptions of them on the basis that we could get those abilities but it's not worth doing so in-story. Hand-wave it away as everyone moving points around off-screen at some unspecified point in time.

>>3586801
That is certainly a possibility. It'd seem a bit cheap without some sort of forewarning however, I think we can at least rely on it for now.
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>>3586801
>The Monastery getting consumed/destroyed is a proven example that even "safe havens" can be susceptible to destruction. So lets treat our mountain home like another Monastery (a place susceptible to destruction).
Which is actually an argument in favor of experimenting with the Engine early, not against it.

But
>The other issue is that spending time slots to experiment with the Engine to optimize our build by mucking around and exploring every GODDAMN HYBRID is time spent dilly dallying.
is certainly true. Like I said, it would be a terrible idea. We don't really have free time, that party was the last I think we'll be able to justify for a while. Though you don't have to talk me out of it. I'm already against the idea for the sake of "that sounds like it would actually be pretty tedious".

Though you're right, we do need to reinforce the Dragon's Lair against intrusion by liquid Daughters. And figure out how Magpie left, if she even did. I'm still considering it somewhat plausible that the reason we smell like her after she mysteriously vanished is because she is inside Shu. It's either that, or she pulled an Itachi and shoved a crow with a powerful eyeball implanted in it down Shu's throat.
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>>3586820
>Also, I've been wondering about how corruption works when hybridizing. If you always hybridize by level 10, can you put off hybridizing indefinitely?
In theory you could, in practice it just mucks up your ability. You get diminishing returns for each new ability tacked onto the hybrid after 3 abilities and you get less utility out of each ability tacked onto the giant hybrid conglomerate and simply turn into a daughter whose main strength is her big ball of stats.

We should also find/craft a relic that deals with Mental corruption as well. Raths' Vitruvian Corruption will manifest in the form of either an ideal paragon she adopted or a vice/flaw. Isabelle's corruption was that in her effort and choice to become immortal in body, her mind became geared towards perfectionism since her body was functionally perfect as a human.

Rath's choice would also influence the mental corruption that manifests. Considering Rath's Hybrid core ability (lighting herself on fire to deal damage, and heal daughters with fire resist), Rath's corruption might manifest in such extreme selflessness that she would become so reckless as to burn herself to death in order to save those she loved, bordering on suicidal Devotion akin to Isabelle.

>>3586831
Well Magpie did say that Shu reminds her greatly of Magpie's biological son (a son whom Magpie looks up to as her heroic figure of inspiration). So shoving a crow into Shu's throat is maybe her way of affection by ensuring Shu is always in Magpie's sight and protection.
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>>3586755
Im not sure BHOP could mentally handle that either.

>>3586801
Fair point too, but i did point out we cant even be sure how often we will get to use it while we have it either.
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>>3586831
Also im ok with a bit of experimentation, but keep in mind, time doesn't stop in this game, so said time would mean we are letting our enemies move in the background and other events happen while we mess around with the engine.
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>>3586856
>Isabelle's corruption was that in her effort and choice to become immortal in body, her mind became geared towards perfectionism since her body was functionally perfect as a human.
Makes me wonder how it would have differed if she had gone for the "army of clones" path. Detachment, because everything was disposable and it didn't matter what any given B'Ni was experiencing?

>Well Magpie did say that Shu reminds her greatly of Magpie's biological son (a son whom Magpie looks up to as her heroic figure of inspiration). So shoving a crow into Shu's throat is maybe her way of affection by ensuring Shu is always in Magpie's sight and protection.
I'm not assuming there's anything sinister about it, no. Though I do wish that whatever she did she had told us before just disappearing.

>>3586875
>Im not sure BHOP could mentally handle that either.
Yeah, it wouldn't be a fun thread for anyone involved.

>>3586883
True, though if we stop Mother here and then do Francine's plan to destroy the West collective, there won't be much our current enemies can do for a while. We'll get some respite then. But I'd rather use that time to get an advance on them. Head towards the Cord and find a closer Waystation, get in some fights and level up, maybe hunt down a higher-tier Forge. There are better uses of our time, it's more efficient to junk unwanted skills after discovering them than discover them in advance like this.
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>>3586892
We'll have to see how these go, but true enough. Even if we do stop Isabelle here we might still need to ramp up our efforts to get back Gina, hell Still having the option to get her back might be a blessing in and of itself After this.

>it's more efficient to junk unwanted skills after discovering them than discover them in advance like this.
What do you mean by this?
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>>3586906
>What do you mean by this?
That it wastes less time to just recycle the levels we feel are wasted instead of spend a ton of time finding out every possible level ahead of time.
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>>3586913
Oh, yeah i fully agree, though as stated, though not saying you disagree, its still better to try and avoid wasting those levels, even with the engine. Better to still put levels where we think they will stay and all that.
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>>3585945
Hey bhop, Can Amara repeat the same word more than once consecutively in a single spell phrase (i.e. "Gra Gra Gra Rho Cunt") or does it have to follow proper grammar?
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>>3586973
id imagine even if she could, it wouldn't be that useful. basically only Gra might get any use out of that.
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>>3586973
I doubt it, given that words can be made free. That would let Amara make her spells arbitrarily powerful for no additional cost.
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>>3586973
>>3586990
>>3587001
actually, i think BHOP has answered this question for me before, and it was a 'no'. specifically, he said 'no' because we did not have GRA at the time, and i was asking if that could be done to boost an effect, and he said no as the only was to boost effects was through words like GRA.
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>>3586917
>>3586892
>3 clones, 1 Amara

Guys, I think we have a way to exploit Amara's Lexicon Spellcasting. And by exploit, I mean Exploit-exploit. Joyous Many is potentially broken if we took the actual time to properly think how to min-max our builds and action economy.
So Hear me out.

So if we exploit Amara's Joyous Many and her spellcasting by having her clones simulcast as a chorus of Skintalkers collaborating:
>Vocem Virtutis gives Amara 4 actions.
>Vocem Virtutis is a tier 2 relic, thus Amara's clones also benefit due to Joyous many Lvl 2.
>clones have 2 actions each baseline, with Vocem Virtutis, the clones have 3 actions.
>Gra is a Free word from Lexicon lvl 5, possibly amplified by Vocem Virtutis, Lexicon is an active ability so Amara's clones also benefit from having Gra become a Free Vocab word.
>Fol theoretically is another Free word from Vocem Virtutis affecting the clones
>Rho is enhanced by Vocem Virtutis
>Gra is enhanced by Vocem Virtutis

Assuming that we don't have the clones spend 1 action Duplicating themselves:
>Amara and her clones have a collective total of 13 Actions (4,3,3,3) in a single round,
>Each clone can theoretically cast a 4-5 word phrase as a full turn action with the right Vocabulary combination
>Amara can theoretically cast a 5-6 word phrase with the right vocabulary.

That's 4 individual selective strong debuffs/buffs or a collaborative 17-word phrase chain that debuffs/buffs an enemy/ally. And I'm thinking that Amara and her clones should cast the following spells:

>"Gra Rho Gra San Tha" [Greater Reinforced Greater Haste Target:Allies] (the Gra #1 and Fol are Free words, Gra #2 is paid with Bio and 1 Act. Longer lasting Haste on Allies) Total cost: 3-4 Actions, 7% bio+Gra's original bio cost
>"Gra Rho Cunt Fol" [Greater Hinderance Enemy Concentrated Disruption] (Greatly increases difficulty for Enemy to Activate their bio-abilities) Cost: 2 Actions, 9% bio
>"Rev San Cunt" [Reverse Haste Target: Enemy] (Reversed Haste Targeting the Enemy makes it physically slow) Cost: 3 actions, 13% bio
>"Gra Fol Gra Rho Tha" [Greater Concentrated Greater Reinforcement] (Longer lasting Greater reinforcement on Allies) Cost: 3 actions, 8% bio+Gra's original Bio cost.

Assuming Amara can use the same word more than once in a single spell phrase, Amara and her Clone Chorus could theoretically chain-cast a collaborative spell that basically debuffs a single enemy with a giant 17 words chain (Gra x 15, Rho, Cunt).

And even if spellcasting isn't that effective, we basically have 3 Amara clones under stealth by Amara's Cloak with 3 actions each. They have Sneeze Shotguns. they can duplicate themselves. they can run around and flank the enemy getting flanking hits on the Phalanx while under stealth! We have an army of stealth catgirls with shotguns!
Come the fuck on! Amara has so much potential here with each and every ability on her kit and you're all tunnel visioned into her spellcasting and Queen Crimson!
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>>3587012
I retract my very last statement. It is in very poor taste for me to have typed it out.
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>>3587012
RHO already hinders enemy mobility, so doing REV SAN is a waste of a word space. like i said, REV is worthless, and we also have no yet gotten confirmation fro BHOP on how it actually works, as it seems work and vaction planning got in his way today.

but you are right, we can do alot of nonsense with her clones, though im not sure like you think they can combine their word strings together, at least not yet. also like i said up above i dont think they can string the same syllable in a row.

>Come the fuck on! Amara has so much potential here with each and every ability on her kit and you're all tunnel visioned into her spellcasting and Queen Crimson!
because her spellcasting is done best from a safe distance, shes still incredibly fragile, her clones even moreso, and multiple people have said they refuse to use her clones as disposable constructs, which is the only way to abuse their Abilities, especially the Cannon, due to them not having any Regen and being far far weaker in resources and what damage they can take. as for Amara Prime, she should never be close enough to use the Cannon, and Queen is a really good defense for when she is targeted. its not tunnel visioning, there are legitimate, logical reasons for why we think like we do.
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>>3587012
also i dont think breaking the enemies Concentration will do much here. Amalgams simply by nature wont care about that as much, aswell as from how BHOP has explained it, admittedly mildly, breaking concentration is more for continuous or build up effects, which as far as we know this thing has none. it being made out of statues mostly could also mean it cares less about concentration over pure instinct.
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>>3587037
It's also incorrect, we make good use of all of her abilities save Sternutation Cannon. I get that you like the idea of it, but Amara's just not built to be a frontline combatant and so I don't want to give her a shotgun.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure Fol doesn't work that way. It's a verb, not an adverb, I don't think we can use it to concentrate an effect. We need to find more modifier words.
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>>3587047
we actually haven't done much with Verteilung, even when she herself might be in danger. i dont think her clones can use it though, as besides the Flare its all passive. its still useful for her to have, but is just a tool to dissuade anyone from actually getting close to her.
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>>3587045
>>3587047
Ok, I admit that I did not think it through thoroughly considering that we're facing an amalgam that uses statues as its puppets to fight us and considering that I may have a warped interpretation of Lexicon Vocabulary and Grammar. We still aren't making full use of her collective action economy. And theory crafting my thoughts out on Exploiting Amara's action economy is also an attempt to find a way to exploit our rather un-used mechanic when it comes to the Bio meter: Having a lower Bio meter increases Initiative and Critical hit potential.
>Source: Vein #1
>(Your Biomass, or BIO, gauge is a measure of how much flesh-stuff you’ve assimilated into your form. It pulls triple-duty as damage-buffer, initiative modifier, and mana pool in Meat World. The higher the gauge, the more it weighs you down but the more damage resistance it grants, while a lower gauge means lessened damage resistance but a higher chance to gain first strike and score a critical hit. Melee classes typically form weapons or armor from BIO, while Ranged Classes actively spend more BIO with their abilities.)

Yes. Amara and her clones are fragile, but in a pinch, they can deal devestating damage with crits and higher initiative. It's the reason why Amara somehow acts first in combat.

I'm just throwing ideas onto this vein to see what could possibly stick and how we can make use of each character's abilities to the fullest in order to both
>A) Take down Phalanx as fast as possible with the proper set up so November can one-shot it with her vector Cannon.
>B) Find any possible ways to create openings by distracting Phalanx .

>>3587063
The Flare has crowd control potential. Amara can basically have her clones use the Fear Flare to basically crowd control Phalanx by "herding" it. My line of thinking for this theoretically exploit is by having a clone flare its aura to interrupt its actions and force it to spend their potential action as a full move action on each attempt.
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>>3587063
I honestly forgot we gave her that. Okay, that could be worth using. And I think the clones do have it, it's Passive skills that they don't get, not Active skills with passive effects. Really, we should rename the categories. But yeah, okay, fear field. We can make good use of that with the clones. Make a huge area that people need to make rolls to enter, or have stealthed clones produce flares to herd the enemy around.

>>3587077
Two of them should cast GRA RHO CUNT and GRA RHO TER. Impede the Phalanx directly and make difficult terrain to halt its advance. The other two should cast GRA SUTH TER and GRA SAN TER on the tunnel. That's "enhanced clear ground" and "enhanced speedy ground", should make it easier to get Dorian past the blockage and out the tunnel fast.
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>>3587077
oh, i know all about how BIO works, the issue is, you also DIE if you run out of BIO. its also the fuel for literally everything, and defense. in my opinion, it is NEVER, EVER, worth having low BIO, not even for those effects, over having more, or at least a decent sized reserve.

>Verteilung
that depends on if they can use it at all. due to Ver being mostly a passive, all its effects might be locked out, as she has to have Ver on first to flare it, but they might not be able to turn it on in the first place. if they can use it, sure it has potential, but i dont think its unfair to say it is a big 'if'.

>>3587090
again, im not sure, as its toggle-able, but it IS a purely passive skill at its core otherwise. its really hard to tell though just where the limits of that is. they probably can but i really feel like Verteilung straddles the line enough to where id really like confirmation, as it feels like its logical for it to go either direction.
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>>3587104
We should ask Bhop these questions because these kinds of questions clarifies what we can and can't do. And since Amara's "Joyous Many" is selective when it comes to which Abilities the Clones benefit from, we'll need to figure out what part of her kit her clones can benefit from and which ability they can't benefit from.
>>3587090
>Gra Rho Cunt
Cost: 9% bio, 2 actions. The Spell looks simple and direct.
>Gra Rho Ter
Anon you need to apply the "Cunt" adjective on this spell so the Terrain can target the Enemy only otherwise it'll have indiscriminate targeting, and we don't want friendly fire. make it "Cunt Gra Rho Ter" so the Terrain effect is centered on the enemy. The revision will drive the cost to cast it up to 11% bio and 3 actions.
>Gra Suth Ter
If you're looking to use the spell to clear the calcite seal on the tunnel entrance, then it's the wrong phrase. Use "Rev Ter" instead. It's Terrain targeted, and Rev makes reverses the Calcite Seal on the Tunnel Entrance. Although, the spell should be said looking at the Calcite Seal, lest we affect "Cunt Gra Rho Ter"
>Gra San Ter
Again, it's got the indiscriminate targeting, we don't want PHALANX to benefit from the spell. If we're planning to give our allies Hastened ground, then add the "Tha" Noun into the spell so the spell is target centered on our Allies.
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>>3587104
>oh, i know all about how BIO works, the issue is, you also DIE if you run out of BIO. its also the fuel for literally everything, and defense. in my opinion, it is NEVER, EVER, worth having low BIO, not even for those effects, over having more, or at least a decent sized reserve.
It does make me wonder how a glass cannon build would work...A critical hit class that exploits the initiative and mechanics from having a low bio gauge like a 1-hit wonder build where the Daughter has this uncanny ability to practically 100%-0% an amalgam or daughter.
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>>3587140
>Anon you need to apply the "Cunt" adjective on this spell so the Terrain can target the Enemy only otherwise it'll have indiscriminate targeting
My thinking was that it was at least a zone distant, and we were aiming to hit it with ranged attacks anyway, but fair enough. We may want Ace to wade into melee with it to finish it off after the Autumn Protocol.

>If you're looking to use the spell to clear the calcite seal on the tunnel entrance, then it's the wrong phrase. Use "Rev Ter" instead. It's Terrain targeted, and Rev makes reverses the Calcite Seal on the Tunnel Entrance. Although, the spell should be said looking at the Calcite Seal, lest we affect "Cunt Gra Rho Ter"
Pretty sure this is wrong, though. Rev reverses the effects of words, it's not a generic reversal. Again, you've got the wrong part of speech. Adverb, not verb.

>Again, it's got the indiscriminate targeting, we don't want PHALANX to benefit from the spell. If we're planning to give our allies Hastened ground, then add the "Tha" Noun into the spell so the spell is target centered on our Allies.
Again, targeting it at a different zone than the Phalanx. Unless it's trying to get out through the tunnel too, it doesn't matter.
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>>3587140
>If you're looking to use the spell to clear the calcite seal on the tunnel entrance, then it's the wrong phrase. Use "Rev Ter" instead. It's Terrain targeted, and Rev makes reverses the Calcite Seal on the Tunnel Entrance. Although, the spell should be said looking at the Calcite Seal, lest we affect "Cunt Gra Rho Ter"

we really need Confirmation to continue this i think, as even without it thats wrong. REV reverses what the next word does. so REV TER would not make it undo Terrain, but effect the opposite of Terrain, whatever that means.

also TER simply points an effect at a medium section of Terrain, so what we need is a word that i guess 'destroys' it. i actually get his logic with Suth, but i think it all depends on what the seal is considered as. it might technically BE simple terrain, or the blockage might count as a type of rough terrain or obstacle. we might simply not have the right word to have Amara help open up the passageways, OR we might be able to loophole it by not stating what we want done to it, so it might default to whatever she wants done, like some other combos kinda do.

>>3587148
im not sure they exist in the traditional sense. at best they still have large BIO pools, but simply expensive abilities that drain it in large chunks to do super moves.
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>>3587156
>>3587153

Well this is getting confusing so lets bring up some quotes of Bhop concerning Amara's spellcasting grammar:

>(To clarify, your example of TER RHO VUL makes the terrain the focus, resulting in a section of ground that specifically targets your foes and does not hinder your allies, while something like TER RHO is difficult terrain that hinders indiscriminately.)

>(Meanwhile, switching up the order to something like VUL RHO TER specifies a foe first and foremost, making their specific movement hindered no matter where they go. Whatever word comes first becomes the primary focus of the following effects. Thus, while TER SAN makes terrain that hastens all characters' movement, TER SAN THA only quickens allies' movement, while THA SAN TER is a movement buff to a specific ally.)
>Source: Vein #13
Vul = Cunt

So lets re-examine >>3587090's proposals.
>GRA RHO CUNT
>GRA RHO TER
>GRA SUTH TER
>GRA SAN TER
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>>3587153
>We may want Ace to wade into melee with it to finish it off after the Autumn Protocol.
good minds think alike, already have that on my orders.

>Again, targeting it at a different zone than the Phalanx. Unless it's trying to get out through the tunnel too, it doesn't matter.
really, it depends on how big a Zone is and how many we have here, its a pretty small, confined space compared to usual, Medium size might basically be all the ground we have.
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>>3587175
Okay, then just for safety's sake, we want a GRA CUNT RHO to strongly impede the Phalanx. A GRA CUNT RHO TER to specifically make terrain that impedes the Phalanx alone strongly. A GRA TER SUTH to strongly make clear any obstacles on a specific piece of land. And then a GRA THA SAN TER to boost Dorian's speed on land.

Though maybe make the GRA TER SUTH a GRA THA SUTH TER, to make Dorian better at getting past obstacles? I think that's how that would work.
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>>3587175
im aware of that yes. i dont think either of our arguments really had to do with how the words work when ordered really.

most of the confusion is around REV really, in that we know it changes the next Words meaning, but not exactly how/to what limits. some are obvious, like CUNT would basically becomes THA, and vise versa, but its the words that already do something different for both enemies and allies that we cant interpret or agree on, or things like TER where its anyones guess what the hell the opposite of a medium section of terrain really is. fuck for all we know the opposite of terrain is the sky, aka it would give her weather control, but without confirmation we really cannot confirm that.
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>>3587197
Yeah... REV is a confusing piece of Vocab. Amara used REV as a one word spell and it reverted a piece of terrain that was used to tie up Ringo to its original state.
>Source: Vein #14

My logic from that source reference was that if the Tunnel Mother used to make a break-in route for Isabelle was modified twice,
>First modification: Tunnel
>Second Modification: Tunnel Door
Then REV TER would reverse the first layer of the Terrain Modification, which is the Tunnel Door. But I am really unsure whether or not it works as intended in spirit because Rev Ter might simply revert the entire Tunnel back to its original state, and we don't want that.

I also feel like that whenever we come up with a spell combination, we should ask Bhop to see if the spell is grammatically correct by logical intent and spirit. Because goddamn, if spellcrafting is like this in Fantasy, no wonder wizards spend so much time trying to get their spells right.

>>3587196
>GRA CUNT RHO
In that order, Gra modifies CUNT, not Rho. Re-order it into "GRA RHO CUNT" so that the Spell targets Phalanx first and foremost, then add the Gra Modifier to double the effects of RHO, with enemy priority tacked on to it to give it a focus.
>GRA THA SAN TER
Again, GRA is modifying THA (a noun), which makes the modifier word useless and leaving San (verb) Ter (Pronoun) at normal strength if the intent was to greatly boost Dorian's speed on land. How about "THA GRA SAN TER"? It basically gives Dorian a greater Movement speed buff. THA is still given priority, but the GRA modifier will amplify SAN.
>GRA CUNT RHO TER
Again, GRA is modifying CUNT (a noun), which breaks the grammar. If your intention was to make the Terrain impede Phalanx, then reorder it to "TER GRA RHO CUNT" if you want to double the effects of RHO. If you want to double the size of Terrain that is affected by the spell, then do "GRA TER RHO CUNT"
>GRA TER SUTH
I'm very iffy about this one. Gra modifies TER, which doubles the size of the terrain affected, and Suth basically makes the Terrain simple again. Plus it's indiscriminate. This spell tacked onto the end of the chain would basically undo all spells that affect TER due to SUTH reverting all terrain into simple terrain.

What if we did "THA GRA REV RHO TER" instead? This spell will have to be spoken by Amara prime since it's a 5-word spell chain. But the gist is that it specifies an ally first and foremost, GRA doubles the next verb, which is Rho but is also modified by REV, so Rho's effects become amplified and reversed. with Ter being the means of how they will be aided. So "Dorain [THA] will be Greatly [GRA] aided [REV RHO] by the ground he walks upon, no matter where he goes [TER]". In theory, this will override the Tunnel seal that Mother has placed upon the tunnel.
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>>3587264
that...makes no sense. REV by its definition simply changes the word before it, how would REV by itself affect anything? even with how BHOP made it sound before he deleted his message and said he was wrong in what he was implying, still implied it was as it says it does, which is only reverse the meaning of the word before it.

>Then REV TER would reverse the first layer of the Terrain Modification, which is the Tunnel Door. But I am really unsure whether or not it works as intended in spirit because Rev Ter might simply revert the entire Tunnel back to its original state, and we don't want that.
and again, by definition that wouldn't not do that, all REV TER would do is reverse what TER does, aka probably either effect an object, person, or sky, but it could be any of those.

>THA GRA REV RHO TER
we literally cannot predict what this does. as REV here is reversing what RHO means, but RHO means different things depending on what it targets. specifically, here, RHO when dealing with Terrain, makes it Rough Terrain, so REV RHO, would if anything make RHO now make Smooth Terrain, but again, this is only if how it changes RHO is in correspondence with the fact TER is after it, and we already have words for smoothing out Terrain, so REV RHO would be wasting an action when we can just use SUTH instead for that effect.

so THA GRA SUTH TER would do what you want, but save us an Action.
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also, an image that made me chuckle, as this game has ruined how i see Bees now i guess.
see pic name for details
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>>3587299
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>>3587264
I assumed that since GRA modifyng a noun doesn't work, it would skip to the next verb. But maybe that would have it effect groups? Does this mean that GRA RHO CUNT, something we've been using for a while, is actually mistargeted? No target at all, actually, just a general "great impediment to enemies" instead of "enemy, I greatly impede you".

Okay, so I think I have the grammar down right, now. It's (Subject)-(Action)-(Conditional). Or, to elaborate, (noun with modifiers preceding it)-(verb with modifiers preceding it)-(noun or verb with modifiers preceding it). So THA GRA SAN TER is (THA)-(GRA SAN)-(TER). It targets a friend (THA) to greatly speed (GRA SAN) them along terrain (TER). Pretty sure that's how it works. So we want:

>CUNT GRA RHO

>THA GRA SAN TER

>CUNT GRA RHO TER

>TER GRA SUTH

You know, you'd think Amara would know this, herself. Maybe instead of ordering specific spells we should have been just giving general instructions for the effect we wanted and left it to her.


And yeah, like >>3587293 saud, REV is an adverb. It is not itself a word to reverse things. It's not saying "I reverse", It's saying "I do the reverse of X", where X is another word. So you need to add another word onto that command. Maybe RHO, actually, but SUTH should do the same thing as reversed RHO.
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>>3587293
Apologies. I've been fiddling around with the lexicon to see what works and what doesn't.
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>>3587314
Reminder that a stinger is anatomically a modified ovipositor and therefore actually the bee's genitals. We have been murder-fucking all our enemies.
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>>3587323
>basically Bee on amalgam/Bee on Daughter Rape.
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>>3587314
>Shus thoughts about Isabelle.

>>3587319
>You know, you'd think Amara would know this, herself. Maybe instead of ordering specific spells we should have been just giving general instructions for the effect we wanted and left it to her.
well, wheres the fun in that? plus, i think its two things; one, shes a child, so its less she doesnt know how they work, and more she overlooks what combination is best useful to the team at that moment. and two, you could say the same about alot of other abilities too, to some degree, but the point is it is still also a game where we Anons are supposed to figure out and use the mechanics.

>GRA RHO CUNT
this would be "Greater Slowing Enemy" or "Heavily Slow Enemy".
so you may be right it is not targeting a SINGULAR enemy, BUT id like to point out we have literally never fought another group so its honestly never mattered. this may actually bring up the issue of we have no word for a singular target, only implied the Spell knows which Ally(and thus probably which Enemy) THA is to be applied to.

maybe "GRA CUNT RHO" would be "Greater Enemy Slow" aka, the biggest threat gets slowed? but again, how does THA know which ally to target, yet we know THA still targets singular Allies if we wish, so why wouldn't CUNT?

also grammatically, wouldn't "THA TER GRA SAN" aka "Allied Terrain Greater Smooth" make more sense than "THA GRA SAN TER" aka "Allied Greater Smooth Terrain"? maybe its just me but the first sound alot less funky.

>>3587320
im not sure what you're apologizing for? nor did i mean to sound like i was mad. i will say you seem to be overlooking the way Rev is worded, which id say BHOP worded it that way for probably very good reasons, but i mean, its maybe a little irritating but i understand its done in good faith, aka, you trying to help, so no worries overall.

>>3587323
well...that is words i have just read yes.
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>>3587333
Yeah, I don't know why I brought that up. I tTook us to a weird place. Let's just say it's different for our Swarmlings, like how they can make honey themselves instead of needing to gather nectar. They're superficially bees, not actually.
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>>3587353
even weirder is i think they started out as wasps but our friendly and team oriented nature made them more bee like over time. so..technically maybe they are Wasp-Bees? Bee-Wasps? Wees? Besps?
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>>3587351
>also grammatically, wouldn't "THA TER GRA SAN" aka "Allied Terrain Greater Smooth" make more sense than "THA GRA SAN TER" aka "Allied Greater Smooth Terrain"? maybe its just me but the first sound alot less funky.
In English. But I think I have the grammar of Skintalking commands right, it's different. Subject-action-modifier, pretty sure that's right.
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>>3587359
im pretty sure even in Skintalker they would do the exact same thing though. but..i guess that also means its a very moot point, other than the fact one is easier to say.
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>>3587358
Hymnens, maybe? Hymenoptera is the superfamily for bees, wasps and hornets. Also ants, should we get ants? They could be dedicated ground combatants more durable because they don't need flight capability.
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>>3587319
>>3587351
TIL Alien spellcrafting is hard. Especially when Alien Vocabulary is using English Grammar.

Man, where's the Pargon (denotes Power) rune when you need it? We also need an "Assist' (Verb) rune in our library.

Anyways, we have Amara's spellcasting action more or less squared off.
>CUNT GRA RHO
That's 2 actions, 9% bio spent. Gra is free. This can be done by a Clone with 1 action left after casting, or by Amara Prime with 2 actions left after casting.
>[THA TER GRA SAN]/[THA GRA SAN TER] (which ever version actually helps Dorian by making the Terrain Aid him.)
That's 3 Actions, 9 bio spent. Gra is free. this can be done by a clone with 0 actions left after casting
>CUNT GRA RHO TER
That's 3 actions, 11% bio spent, Gra is free. This can be done by a clone with 0 actions left
>TER GRA SUTH
That's 2 actions, 6% bio spent, Gra is free. This can be done by a clone with 1 action left after casting or by Amara prime with 2 actions left after casting.

The spells selected isn't bad, but what bothers me greatly is the order in which they're cast. If we had [TER GRA SUTH] cast at the very end, it would probably negate [THA TER GRA SAN]/[THA GRA SAN TER] and [CUNT GRA RHO TER] due to the indiscriminate nature of [TER GRA SUTH].
So here's got me thinking about the order of operations:
>1. [CUNT GRA RHO]
First things first, Hinder the enemy
>2. [TER GRA SUTH]
Smooth out the Terrain, make it affect the Tunnel and the Tunnel Entrance.
>3. [CUNT GRA RHO TER]
After the Terrain's been smoothed out/reset, we can then cause mayhem with the Terrain.
>4. [THA TER GRA SAN]/[THA GRA SAN TER]
Once we've secured the opening, we cast this on Dorian or our allies in General.
Any thoughts on spellcasting order?
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>>3587382
first off, my dyslexia made me read that first word WAAAY differently than you meant, and boy for a second there i thought you had gone mad.

otherwise, im not sure, as Hive Mistress classes seem to focus on a singular species group, not superfamily, so at the very least i think Ants are off the table. on a technicality, i THINK we are supposed to be bound to a single species group( aka, Wasps, Bees, OR Hornets), and i think we still might be? just it changed over time? it could also be a superficial thing. when it comes to Abilities and what they can do, there is no real difference between allowing us to spawn a wasp or a bee at this point, therefore it doesn't matter as its purely cosmetic. but any species leaping that would result in actual advantages or major changes such as Ants would not be allowed, and would require an Ant based Hive Mistress Ability.

>>3587387
i currently have Amaras Actions as;
AMARA;
>help Shu with GRA TER SUTH if that is what is necessary to get the tunnel open.
>Amara should Flare Verteilung to keep the Phalanx back and better positioned to get ensnared and held in place.
>if you or your Clones can spare it, use GRA RHO CUNT on the Phallanx.
>If any Clones can spare it, use GRA SAN THA on Dorian.

with emphasis on, where necessary, Amara and her Clones stack the same spell, hence the wording and lesser number of them. if all 4 must be used to aid Shu, then so be it. if it looks like more than one needs to Cast on the Phallanx, such is how it should be. nothing says we cant cast the exact same spell twice to double its effects, its just its never been something we can even do before due to how many Actions spellcasting eats up.
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>>3587299
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>>3587411
i have no regrets.
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So it's getting late. We have a general strategy forming when it comes to fighting phalanx and our overall plan in the Hexxane Body heist, now we need to hammer out the details...after we sleep. We can discuss this in the morning.
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>>3587453
sure, i suppose i can post up what ive tried to solidify from our talks tomorrow.

hope the nights restful for ya.
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>>3587456
it will be restful...until the cat starts meowing in front of my bedroom door to get me to feed her at the literal crack of dawn.
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>>3587459
my roommate has 3 and he works nights, so when hes not home...yeah i understand ya.
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well, i suppose i may aswell post what ive compiled as the plan so far, and let people get to it as they so have time.

SHU;
>Spawn 4 Bane-Grapplings and have them rush the Phallanx, then spawn arm links to lock it down in a net of arms.
>Spawn a Stealthed Jackling and have it be prepared. As soon as November is prepared to fire, have it lock down the Phallanx.
>Summon up the Heavens Drill and what standard Drillings you can spare to dig out the Tunnel along with Terraforming, to give Dorian his way out.
>Give Dorain a Jackling if necessary to keep in communication.

DORIAN and KEANE;
>Use Paintlings and Mucuslings to help glue down the Phallanxes Limbs and get it stuck in place against a wall.
>As soon as he sees his opening, Dorin needs to spam as much speed as he can from the Sui and rush out with two Gear Spokes, so we can escape to the surface with one, then without missing a beat he is to go ahead and rush to catch up with Isabelle with everything hes got.

AMARA;
>help Shu with GRA TER SUTH("Greater Terrain Simplify") if that is what is necessary to get the tunnel open.
>Amara should Flare Verteilung to keep the Phalanx back and better positioned to get ensnared and held in place.
>if you or your Clones can spare it, use GRA RHO CUNT("Greater Slow Enemy") on the Phallanx.
>If any Clones can spare it, use GRA SAN THA("Greater Quicken Ally") on Dorian.

ACE, QUINN, and JACKIE;
>Team up to help keep the Phallanx back as best you can, with being prepared to step back quickly, with help from Shus Hands Springs and Maw, as soon as November is ready to fire.
>If Novembers shot does fail to kill it, Ace should be prepared to dash in to deal further Damage.

NOVEMBER;
>Get prepared to use Autumn Protocol on the Phallanxes Core, fire as soon as you have the best shot you know you are gonna get.


obviously things are subject to change once we have the opening actually before us, but i cant see our overall plan shifting too heavily. i wasnt sure exactly what Shus current swarmling count was, hence no amount stated for the Drillings, though id also say its a pretty important aspect so spawning as many as we can spare regardless of how many that is is probably still a good idea.

no one had posted any ideas for Jackie or Quinn and i couldnt think of any specifically either, so i just decided to have them work together to help hold it off til November is ready to fire, as id imagine they work well together like that.

Amaras spell section might look weird, but the idea is her and her clones focus on one issue at a time, so if they need to stack spells to aid Shu and whatnot, so be it, so id imagine despite having 4 spells to cast total we probably wont actually cast 4 individual spells.

my idea is also that even if Amaras spell might not open up the Tunnel, it may undo any effects on it that makes it more difficult to dig through or terraform.
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>>3588072
In the event we do kill Phalanx in one round, we should teleport its corpse back to home base for safe consumption. The main Beneficiary of Phalanx is definitely Amara, she'll likely get the lion's share of it because Phalanx holds probably 10 new possible vocab words in its corpse.

Ideas for Jackie:
>Have her Enhance Shu's Heaven's Drill.
I'm getting the vague gist that Heaven's Drill needs time to properly ramp and start up. If Jackie boosts Shu's Heavens Drill, we won't have to spend as much time trying to ramp up and get the drill spinning fast enough to drill through the Tunnel Door.
Ideas for Quinn:
>Have her systematically dismantle Phalanx. Her role is to break Phalanx's defenses with her drills.
I have a hunch that Quinn picked up Heaven's Drill to augment her own Core ability so she could act as a follow-up from November's Autumn Protocol.
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>>3588126
im not sure Quinn did, and dont feel its the correct course of action to give orders based purely on an assumption. we also only have minor control over them anyways, so just pointing her in the direction we need i think is good enough. doesn't make assumptions on what she can or cannot do, and thus allows her to use what she thinks is best for what needs to be done.

fair point on Jackie though, i can support that.

as for Amara, I dont think thats how it works. my guess is the plaques on the statues had the Words, or she could've talked to the Statues to get them. im very positive she wont need to consume an absurd share of the body to gain them. also, i mean we can try, but i hardly personally think trying to do anything with the corpse is worth the loss of time it might entail. nows not the time to be thinking about stuff like that, if we even end up with time to try and preserve it at all.
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>>3588136
also i think making assumptions past turn one is a biiit far for the course. its one thing to get opening orders in, well, order, as best we can, its another to assume what the end results are actually going to be.
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>>3588136
Well shit. Well that brings up a conundrum. If Phalanx uses the statues to fight, November's Autumn Protocol might blow up the Word plaques alongside the statues.
I do hope that Dorian and Amara managed to take pictures of the Word plaques and pictures of the statues for Amara to glean the words off of.
>>3585945
Bhop what did Dorian and Amara catalogue with Gina's Smartphone? Did they get the statues as well as the plaque cards for each statue or did they just take pictures of the Statues only?

>>3588140
As for Dorian, his job is to race and outpace Isabelle. Since his job is a high risk task, I would want him to prime his halo's critical counter and set his halo to enhanced perception. I don't want Mother to do more Terraforming/weather shenanigans above ground to stall Dorian.

Also, how much Hp do we want him to inject into Sui Tormentis for his speed boost? 100% hp each turn?
With his current relic loadout, he has a full range movement of 12 movement zones with a Sui Tormentis 500% boost to his speed and with Cursu Alas active at lvl 2. And thats when he's in his Misty Canvas form.

Planning out for the future, his canvas form is vulnerable to be disrupted by large gusts of wind. So I would recommend having him switch to Critic form once he is above ground and use his blood Scythes as ski-skates and Ski poles to mimic Isabelle's Calcite skates like pic related.
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>>3588173
well they better have, considering the plethora of different ways and methods we said we wanted to catalog them with.

as for Dorian, switching forms is a free Action so he can stay in Canvass until he feels too threatened. we also cant afford to not take some risk, he needs to dump all his Regen into this, both his Health into Sui and Bio into Cursas. if he gets stopped to where he needs either for other things, hes already failed.
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>>3588177
Cursus Alas isn't really that powerful at lvl 2. If you're looking for the Supersonic "Full Burn" feature, that's at lvl 3. I'm not really sure if Bhop made any modifications to the relic however.
Also, the flaw in your logic here is that Canvas is supposed to be his evasion ticket. he needs to have 3 layers of defense.
>His first layer is his speed.
>His second layer is the fact that he can switch into Canvas Form as a Free action to evade any close hits
>his third and final layer of defense is his Neurotic Halo's Auto Dodge/Critical counter.
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>>3588190
Canvas is still the faster form. but fair point on the Cursas, but non-the-less keeping it going is still what he needs to do.
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>>3588193
Lets pick up this discussion later. I'm leaving for work.
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>>3588173
(Dorian and Amara had time to catalogue the entire room, so no worries about losing any information on them. Well done, I must say.)
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>>3588197
hope work goes well. hopefully me and any other Anons around might make some progress aswell.

>>3588237
thats good to hear. nothing like overkill when it comes to preserving things.
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Damm, I catch up on the quest just on the tail end of the vein only to find that the next vein is only in 5 days from now.
>mfw ill die from Body Horror Quest withdrawal
>mfw I won't get to see B'ni get stabbed in the face
>mfw I won't get to read Gina's fanfics
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>>3588286
You mean all of Gina’s smut Fics. We should write smut fics of our own in Gina’s smartphone.
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>>3588294
we absolutely should not.

>>3588286
well, you're here now at least, even if you're imply you cannot be here for Tuesday. always glad to see new readers though.
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>>3588126
I like the idea of having Jackie boost the Heaven's Drill. That will make getting through the wall much faster. We don't actually know how thick it is. Though if it's only a single layer then we know that Mother is running seriously low on tokens, that would be a good sign.

On the topic of Dorian's protection, I think it's worth noting that Sui Tormentis also improved reaction times with the speed boost and Dorian's speed means he'll be gathering a minimum of a dozen stacks of Charge every turn. Anything that tries to get in his way he can lightning blast before it comes close. Mother plops a big Amalgam down in his path and he just barrels right through it riding on the heels of a thunderbolt.

>>3588294
Agreed. But don't say anything about it, just leave them for her to discover.
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>>3588304
im still thinking if she does try anything to stop him, its gonna be terrain based, so lightning wont help with that.
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>>3588310
I'm not sure. It would take a pretty big obstacle to block Dorian with his speed and mist form, and I don't think Mother has the tokens left to make anything big. If she did, why not collapse that tunnel entirely? It doesn't benefit her in the slightest to sandbag on this, there is no point to hiding how much control she has left when our party winning even a slight victory here could undo her grand plan.
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>>3588319
well, for one thing, we dont know how much everything actually costs, nor even how sealed off the tunnel actually is.

she also might do it preemptively, as currently no daughters might be the the path, so she might spend the tokens worry free and cheaper to make it harder to traverse. she also doesn't know our plan outright, keep that in mind, she her reacting to Dorian wouldn't be her having expected him, but realizing she has to take the risk to stop him now that she sees her first attempts to hold us back did not work. her not doing as much here is her hoping its all she needs to do, her later terraforming underneath Dorian would be a reactive move after seeing her current plan was not enough.
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>>3588319
collapsing the tunnel is the same as killing the daughter traveling inside it. it’s bullshit cheating. besides, she needs to conserve her tokens.
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>>3588332
I'm not sure. Mother knows our capabilities, she knows what we intend to do, it would be in her best interests to block us off entirely if she could. If she's not, that means she's really feeling the pinch on her resources. It might not be entirely impossible for her to make something big, but it would cost her a lot and I don't expect her to be able to do it more than once.

>>3588333
I meant collapsing the tunnel out. Not just blocking us off, but sealing us in entirely. That would take less tokens than outright killing us, but would still be a big change. And yet, still a smaller one than the scale of chasm or cliff Mother would have to erect to impede Dorian meaningfully.
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>>3588286
(Welcome, Anon! Glad you caught up and could join in.)
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>>3588173
>>3588304
Regarding Dorian spending health on Sui and making fat Stacks, I'm concerned that once he escapes the encounter he will no longer gain Stacks or get his health regen. BHOP has told us before that there is a change when Daughters enter a conflict that activates health/bio regen and lets certain abilities function. If this wasn't the case, Dorian should be sprinting around 24/7 pouring health into Sui Tormentis and turning into basically a lightning bolt, but faster.

The question is whether Dorian still counts as in conflict while we are fighting Phalanx. If not, we have a perverse incentive to delay Dorian escaping for a few rounds so he can build up speed. If so, we are still incentivised to draw out the fight as long as possible.

The only way our otherwise-sensible strategy of getting Dorian out ASAP and ending the fight ASAP actually works is if Dorian still counts as in conflict all the way to Isabelle on account of how we are in conflict with Mother right now, and she's kinda everywhere.
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>>3588347
we'll have to see. still seems logical to me she is simply conserving resources to see what she will actually need. i dont think she ever expected anything she throws at us to actually outright stop/kill us, her goal is simply to hold us off long enough for it to not matter.
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>>3588350
"Racing to catch up with another Daughter before they doom the world" is still a conflict, even if it's not one based in violence. Dorian is still in direct opposition with B'Ni, I think it should count.
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>>3588351
Right, so why not guarantee we're held off? I don't think she expects this to stop us either, but it's also kind of a low-ball for delaying us. Unless that wall is a lot thicker than we think, Mother can't have thrown as many tokens at this as she would have wanted to.
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>>3588350
nah, he still had his Regen during the party. its just the natural non Regen based BIO and Health regain even daughters without Regen have only applies outside of combat, and any effects specifically saying 'during combat' dont apply outside of it. even if he does not count as 'in combat' and the SUI effects are constantly bleeding off, the same thing would happen if he stayed in combat and built it up first. all if means is, we actually would need to get him out FASTER to make up for that, not wait around longer, as he would just instantly lose what he waited around for anyways.

plus as
>>3588353
said, id argue very much this still counts. its like how the one daughter splashed us with the brain matter to put us to sleep. it was not combat via fighting, but it still counted as conflict to activate our abilities and the like.
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>>3588360
because i never said you are wrong shes running out of juice, only that she has none left to spare. shes hoping what she has thrown at us is enough, and keeping a minor reserve so she can adapt to whatever we have planned to get out of it. if she just threw more at us outright in a bigger pile, its not necessarily actually going to slow us down more if we were more prepared than she thought for what she threw at us, but if she then waits to see how this plays out, then adapts her next move to how we deal with this, she can make sure the next move has a more potent effect, or react to something unexpected she didn't take into account. she not infallible and she herself knows that.
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>>3588374
No, I get that, I just think that if Mother's doing that it's a much riskier game she's playing. Because the party overcoming her obstacles also costs her, so an adaptive strategy can potentially hurt her a lot more than just spending a bunch at once to guarantee we can't catch up to B'Ni. But maybe you're right, and Mother is just being overly cautious in her moves and it's going to wind up hurting her in the end. I wouldn't be entirely surprised, I don't think Mother really knows what she's doing with this plan. She stumbled into this plan, she could not possibly have predicted it would go down this way, so she is flying by the seat of her pants right now.
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>>3588385
well, if she already expected us to overcome them, than shes spending points already expecting the double hit. this just means the next one she may be able to put to better use, rather than losing 3 stacks all at once, instead of two then one. plus you are right, theres no way she planned this, so shes probably scrambling to figure this all out just as much as us. she might not even even known we were gonna get here in such a time crunch either, who really knows.

theres also the idea of her only being able to throw so much at us in there too. we already know she cant afford any direct kill methods, and the place being not entirely of the fleshscape probably means even with breaking the rules she had limited options, so she did what she could and is waiting to see what else she can and needs to do.

>mfw we clear the tunnel and it immediately closes again before even Dorian can react.
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>>3588294
SxG in a nutshell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CvqmD0CZao [Embed]
>>3588298
Nah, I was only joking. Reading this quest had occupied quite a bit of my free time that I don't know what to do with now.
>>3588348
Thanks BHOP, its good to be here
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>>3588573
>SxG in a nutshell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CvqmD0CZao [Embed] [Embed]

>when you spend 20 minutes writing a post only to notice one error after posting it
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>>3588401
it does make me wonder; “what was the breaking point that forced Mother to start burning her admin tokens?”
Was it Shu and Family somehow gimping Isabelle from Gina’s sacrifice?
Or has Mother ever been forced to burn a token in the past? it just seems to me that with heroic figures like Mara running around there would’ve been instances where Mother had to burn tokens despite having Charon to do direct dirty work.
It would also give away the underlying mindset that runs in Mother’s brain when she burned her first token assisting Isabelle by providing information on the Hexxane Armory
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>>3588607
(Magnificent, excellent song choice. Also, I know your pain about posting only to notice an error...it's half the issue with the bamboozles I enact.)
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>>3588940
im thinking Mara simply has never actually been a threat like that before. despite her threat level and time spent fighting Charon, she seems like she could've and very obviously should've gone for the cord long ago, even if she never intended to win it. but she didn't. she was, at the end of it, fine and ok with letting the risk of another win it happen, and i think Mother probably saw that and took it into account. at the end, no matter what Mara is doing to raise her threat level, if shes not actually heading to the place to directly be a to Mother, then why spend the points?

otherwise, it seems this may of been unexpected for Mother too, but she seems to have started most likely with telling Isabelle yes.

>>3588573
i understand, its great to participate and discuss things here and the like, but then once suddenly everyone is gone you go 'well fuck, now what?' haha.

>>3589039
is destined that you shall always bamboozle, you just have to accept it.
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>>3588385
>>3588401

Back from work. I am >>3588940 at my computer.

It has come to my attention that with the room layout and our current plans in the opening round, we may have sabotaged ourselves (November's Autumn Protocol puts the elevator in the direct line of fire if the beam pierces through Phalanx. if we plan for Shu and the rest to use the elevator should the tunnel seal be too thick for us to break through, then we would have effectively sealed ourselves in.
Also, Mother might also throw more Calcite doors along the length of her tunnel to stop Dorian if she's fast enough, so We could have Quinn escort Dorian as a Drilling partner to ensure he makes it to the other side of the tunnel.
But that's the worst case scenario if Mother anticipated us escaping via the tunnel.

Looking at what Mother did to setup this encounter, it seems that she's trying to guide us in taking the path of most resistance or the route that will tie up the vast majority of Shu's party members by putting an Amalgam in our way to the elevator (which is technically the path of least resistance to the overworld).

It also has come to my attention that we don't really know how much information Mother knows on our character sheets and the costs of each of her admin actions. She could have Admin actions that cost more than 2 tokens that directly affect a daughter like locking out her core ability. We honestly don't know. From what we've seen from Mother, the actions that she took to Assist Isabelle seem to be low-key support actions that don't directly affect the daughter she's favoring.
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>>3589101
>we may have sabotaged ourselves
our goal was always to have Dorian put down a teleport outside, specifically so we do not have to wait ti kill this to get out, or fight past it to the elevator. even if it survives and follows us, fighting it on open ground will still work out better for us.

>Also, Mother might also throw more Calcite doors along the length of her tunnel to stop Dorian if she's fast enough, so We could have Quinn escort Dorian as a Drilling partner to ensure he makes it to the other side of the tunnel.
But that's the worst case scenario if Mother anticipated us escaping via the tunnel.
again with the assumptions of info we do not have. and maybe, but we will simply have to deal with that if we have to. Shu is already on the drilling team though, so no worries there..er, well its a worry but we already are prepared to keep drilling, is what i mean.

>It also has come to my attention that we don't really know how much information Mother knows on our character sheets and the costs of each of her admin actions. She could have Admin actions that cost more than 2 tokens that directly affect a daughter like locking out her core ability. We honestly don't know. From what we've seen from Mother, the actions that she took to Assist Isabelle seem to be low-key support actions that don't directly affect the daughter she's favoring.
well like i said, her actions seem to imply shes running low, nor that she expects to actually stop or kill us. she has a reserve to use to adapt to what we do, but its not large. i feel like many of those actions besides the low end ones we already know would cost far too much for her now, especially as im sure she again is expecting us to overcome these, so is already assuming anything she throws at us is costing her double.
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>>3589124
also on the Quinn thing, keep in mind her core is going to significantly alter anything she takes, so she probably views whats a good choice to take very differently than most.
also why would someone whos main issue is rev up time to be useful, and whos playstyle is massive adaptability, take a weapon that has rev up time and is unwieldy to use, and highly unadaptable? if shes trying to cover her weaknesses the Drill is a terrible choice, with plenty of better options on that list. the kinky girl is more likely to take VAINGLORIOUS VERTEBRAE for all the wrong and right reasons id personally say, though theres plenty of better choices than the drill to take. i think you are focusing on the fact she spawned drills against the spiral too much.
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also, heres another neat idea i had.

>GOREGROWTH BOX; a small box of bone and flesh, made to be strapped to ones waist. To use this device, one must first click open its lid and puncture their hand or another limb upon the large needle at its center. Upon doing so, they may pick a single Ability to remove from themselves and put into the box, including their Core, Augments, One-Shots, and Passives. This will not only strip away the Ability, but its corresponding stats aswell. With the Ability now firmly in the box, the box now at their waist, one then brings it into battle. When victory is claimed in battle while the box is worn, the Ability inside will automatically level up without the need to put Consume points into it, at a minimum of one per level, but with particularly difficult fights garnering stronger growth. Furthermore, after the first level up within the box, the stats the Ability gives will slowly start to increase in potency aswell, each next level granting a higher boon to this increase. The Box cannot bring an ability above its maximum level, to which it simply becomes wasted potential if an Ability is left in past its prime. For Augments, One-Shots, and Passives, the main focus is instead on stat growth, with its effects slowly growing in potency, again increasing slowly the longer the Ability is in the box. Unlike level-able Abilities, there is no limit to this growth, however it is much slower. If the Ability is ever taken out, the counter for the number of fights it has been in the box resets to zero, and its accumulative multiplier to the Abilities growth must then be regained. While it is a sacrifice to remove part of oneself in such a way, for those willing, the benefits shall be reaped in time.
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>>3589373
so basically Exp share except with bio-abilities instead of pokemon.
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>>3589386
well, i dont play pokemon so i literally cannot say yes or no to that. not really sharing though so much as on a technicality increasing how much you get, but at the cost of locking out the ability from use, and potentially i suppose putting it in danger of being lost too.
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>>3589396
It's a neat relic. So it's akin to a safety deposit box of investment for bio abilities right? insert ability, fight and win battles, and over time, get a better ability when you withdraw it from the box. It's also a good way to transfer abilities from one daughter to another without having to fight and consume each other.

Any thoughts on the Hivephone relic I posted awhile back? >>3586801
I made it on a whim as a thought exercise on what kind of relics would serve as completely utilitarian purposes instead combat only.

Also, some more ideas on utilitarian uses for our party members (and the Midnight Crew)
>Keane is a walking life-support system who can hook up an ailing daughter with a daughter who has health regen.
>Jackie is walking a Nitro-booster who can amplify any bio-ability related utilitarian use (Tim-Taylor's "More Power" from Home Improvement)
>Dorian's Accumulated Charge: A Defibrillator. The perfect counter against daughters who induce violent heart-attacks. Not so much for cuteness induced heart-attacks.
>BodyPaint and Camouflage paint. Literal surface level camouflage, useless against Neuromancy radar and other forms of sensory, but for the daughters that still rely on their own two eyeballs, it's better than nothing.
>Tattoo art and Tattoo removal with Dorian's Inklings.
>Shu uses Heaven's Drill, Neuromancy, and Fear to Tread to make a Blender/Grinder/TableSaw/DrillPress for industrial use.
>Rath's Tensile Strands as chains for a Pulley System with her Herculean Strength to provide the power.
>Dorian Mows the lawn, Harvests, the Corn and Scythes the wheat like a Farming family man.
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>>3589477
>It's a neat relic. So it's akin to a safety deposit box of investment for bio abilities right? insert ability, fight and win battles, and over time, get a better ability when you withdraw it from the box. It's also a good way to transfer abilities from one daughter to another without having to fight and consume each other.
yeah, a safety deposit box is a good analogy.
i..huh. i literally didn't even think about it as a way to transfer abilities...but i cant see any reason it wouldn't allow that...nice catch.

>>3586801
its a nice idea for sure. very useful, im now imaging a daughter that uses it to type in random numbers though and basically prank call random hive Mistresses. just... one of their constructs suddenly starts buzzing like a phone and this random daughter starts asking them if their forge is running.

>>3589477
nice ideas too. for some reason Dorian becoming a farmer is hilarious. especially considering any 'plants' would basically be constructs that grow, probably akin in some odd way to a hybrids of a similar power to Quinns. might be a neat and legit way to get 'food' to stave off the hunger though, but i cant see it being viable outside of a pretty established settlement, or after the Crucible is ended.

man, once even a modicum of civilization comes back around after all this, its gonna be really weird to see deathbattle powers used like mundane tools and technology of old. its also gonna be an interesting societal issue about how your core ability could basically decide what you can do in life, as you would hope long term consuming others will be rare, so most wont have more than their core, with only the warrior and adventure class really having any Amalgam abilities of note. even if Amalgams get farmed in some way like today viable 'breeds' would come about so the amount of abilities garnered from the feeding stock would be limited, if taking them over upgrading ones core is even encouraged.

this of course implies the Hunger in some form is still around, but i can imagine some form of it sticking around, without the crucible itself running i cant imagine our bodies being an infinite battery anymore.
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>>3589509
actually thats poor wording. it really wouldn't be 'the hunger' thats around anymore, but actually literally more akin to hunger as normal humans like us have, just still twisted by the fact everyone is fleshscape bio horror things now.
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>>3589039
hey BHOP, what Tier would this Relic be, and any changes that would have to be made to it?
>>3589373
apologize for the odd question, kinda just trying to get a mental image of how the Relic Tier system works a bit more.
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>>3589101
It would be a lot easier to sabotage the elevator than it would be to block off the tunnel. I don't trust that as a safe and functioning exit at all.

>>3589477
I feel like we're probably seriously under-utilizing the Crew's abilities out of not knowing their actual parameters. If we ever get their character sheets we'll probably be able to pull some really clever tricks. Like, aside from the teleport-swapping we have no idea how to use Ace. We have some vague knowledge that her Humoral Paladin abilities are about stacking debuffs, but other than that we're clueless. I'm sure there's probably all sorts of neat abilities we're not taking advantage of.

>>3589509
Something that might happens is that Forge technology is used to make "food pills" for Daughters. Something like one-shot Relics infused with what I'm pretty sure is implied to be the highest-level abilities of Artisanal Appetite, so that the Daughter can gain levels from eating those instead of Amalgam meat. If a solid understanding of the Hexane's technology could be attained, then it could even be possible for such pills to give new abilities, like how the Halos are Relics that turn into skills.

Huh, thinking about this, and combining it with some of the ideas for Relics that improve consumed meat by cooking it, it might turn into kind of a biopunk xianxia setting. Cultivator Daughters using their Forge crucibles to refine pills that they consume to help them gain strength and master the Dao of Flesh. Oh, I like this idea. It could even already be happening, with a Vitruvian Daughter somewhere out there doing this who has a unique power that lets her grow in levels through meditating and exploring the underlying code of the Crucible in metaphorical Dreamscape visions. She has another skill for "Flesh Alchemy" that lets her focus the results of consuming any Amalgam's flesh that she's treated, and even gain unique benefits from eating rare growths of the Fleshscape. And the mental problem that her Corruption has manifested as is typical jackass xianxia protagonist behavior.
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>>3589574
>jackass xianxia protag behavior
>complete with de-syncing lip movement when talking to imitate poorly eng dubbed Wuxia movies of old.
>often resorts to violence first to prove that their argument was the right one.
On one hand...wuxia protag personalities are just plain toxic upon sight. On the other hand...wuxia memes.
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>>3589574
>Midnight Crew
yeah, but i think technically thats kinda the point. we dont have full control over them, so we dont know everything about them.

>Forge technology
its a neat idea and very much viable as something that could be done, but the issue is Forge Cores, especially of higher levels, are pretty rare overall. this means two things;
one, many settlements would by necessity need to find other ways to cultivate food.
two, any settlement relying on forge tech is both putting themselves at great risk if the forge is stolen or destroyed, aswell as putting themselves under the thumb and control of those that control the forge(s). besides the fact we know for sure Humanity will not stop having a vile side, plenty of folks would probably abandon a settlement over that outright, and sadly even more might basically become poverty slaves unable to leave. i dunno i just can see alot more going wrong with relying on Forges for food than going right.
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>>3589608
Or three: Humanity learns how to make more Forge Cores. I want a post-Crucible humanity to figure out all the Hexane tech and use it for our benefit. Charon would approve, I think, if they're still alive by the end of this I think they'll help. They're clearly a skilled engineer with Hexane biotech, given the description of the Ascendant Crown, I wouldn't put it past them to have understanding of the Hexane's other tools.
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>>3589608
As with Forges, same thing goes with Sparagmos Engines. We've seen what Johanna did with her engines, she tossed them into an engine and turned them into consumable rock candies.
There's also the issue that Forge Cores apparently have a finite energy supply as demonstrated by November's Forge Body. Mechanical Forge Bodies use the raw energies from a Forge Core to run, which basically overtaxes the Forge Core by an imperceptible percentage causing energy drain from the forge core. And Forge cores can only recharge their energy when they are tossed into the fires of another active Forge Core energy (so far that's the only way we have found out how to recharge a Forge core). So the conundrum is that we have a number of powersources with a finite store of energy, whomever has a majority of those resources is bound to run society due to their stranglehold monopoly on them, which is literally how Oil Companies and Energy Companies control Governments by threatening to cause an energy crisis in a society.
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>>3589629
i doubt forge cores are easy to make, and it still doesn't solve the idea it would be all too easy for a select group to end up with control over them and thus the population that relies on them.

>>3589633
well, the odd thing is, it really only seems to have finite amount of energy if you overtax them, otherwise we have seen no indication they run dry. however, like with our bodies, this may be the Crucible itself 'feeding' them(ans us) unlimited energy, and once the crucible itself ends it will becomes an issue. which, yeah as you said, would only increase the problem, especially as they would still have the best way of recharging and keeping Cores running longer, and probably also the best method to make new ones id imagine.

Sparagmos Engines are an odd one. limited too yes, but would not be anywhere near as necessary for survival. hell, actually, in the more civilized parts of the world, they might basically fall into ruin, as no one would see a use for them, considering their main use is Build Optimization, something only a select few in society would ever need, and may not even seek out, especially if they are in the hands of elites who ask too high a price. their fate is probably museums and being left to collect dust in most societies id imagine, with only the more war-like or oppressive ones making major use of them.
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>>3589663
Those Engines could probably also be used for Bio-Surgery, since they essentially function as Alien Surgery devices that modifies a daughter's bio-abilities (and therefore her physiology) via Refine and Re-arrange. Purified Engines however will be on premium because of the Restore Function they have. It's really fucking weird though. Just trying to think how society is gonna evolve from having a dead planetary virus rotting inside their planet's core after the Crucible is turned off.

I also have noticed that we're on Act TWO and already we're forcing Mother's hand in making her take desperate measures (her plan to mind transfer into a physical vessel planetside and actively participate in the Crucible game, essentially abandoning her job as the Game Admin.) despite having taken at least 2 major steps from our starting point in our Journey west.
The game's not gonna end even after we deal with Mother. It just makes me wonder how the game will behave once Mother leaves the Admin chair (regardless of method, either by mind transfer or by getting purged from the system)
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>>3589633
I think the cores winding down when used as a mechanical Forge Body is from their structure degrading when overtaxed, not them depleting a fuel source. They need downtime to repair themselves.

>>3589663
>i doubt forge cores are easy to make, and it still doesn't solve the idea it would be all too easy for a select group to end up with control over them and thus the population that relies on them.
True, but in the early days post-Crucible I figure Shu should have a fair amount of influence. She could easily be the founder and leader of one of the new societies, and given the resources she has access to said society would probably be the first to discover how to create more. So she'd be the one to have control over the information, and could use that as a tool to help bring other communities into the fold peacefully. "These Daughters don't want to eat you, will protect your community and will give your access to advanced technology" is pretty good incentive to join up. And then we slowly disseminate the technology as we bring order back to the world.

But yeah, it's unclear how the Forge Cores get their energy supply. Given that the Hexane had to have tested them before the Crucible got to their planet, I'd assume they're self-powering. Not sure how, though. Fusion seems the likely answer, but they might be using some weird process based off the exotic physics the Crucible employs. Like they use the space-warping used to store biomass and accelerate baryon decay via topological defects, or something like that. Something that would take humanity generations to figure out how it actually works even if we can make the machines themselves, real cargo cult science.

>Sparagmos Engines are an odd one. limited too yes, but would not be anywhere near as necessary for survival
Not as necessary, but I can see them being used. Being able to reconfigure a Daughter's build means the worry about them becoming pigeonholed into certain societal roles isn't as big an issue. Go on down to the facilities, pay a fee, and they can swap your levels around to something better for the job you want or even (for a much bigger fee, I figure) swap in some abilities from another Daughter without you having to eat them. It would be a huge advantage to a society of superhumans. A caste system forming is one of the great banes of people whose powers are inherent to their bodies.
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>>3589703
Yeah, we're in for a crazy ride. We haven't even met any of the super-Daughters coming in from other continents yet. Things are going to get wild. Mother being off the throne will probably just make for an even more frantic race to claim it.
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>>3589713
This also brings up another very touchy subject in post-crucible society: Life and Death.
Given that all the daughters that survive the crucible will still have the nasty habit of Corpse consumption, and the fact that Dream daughters are still a thing for the survivors, how will society treat the dead and dying as well as taking care of Newborns who haven't experienced the Hardships of the Crucible? what stories do we tell the next generation? And how do we craft our stories so that subsequent generations don't butcher/mis-translate/mis-interpret the original message/aesop or make corrupted spin-offs?
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>>3589703
yeah, its easy to overlook that the Crucible itself is an enemy, not just Mother. theres also West and a plethora of high level Daughters at or nearing the Cord to deal with, aswell as finding a way to get our entire team inside the cord, then the hell that is climbing the cord itself, as even if we do not wish to win the Crucible, its becoming clear destroying it and/or re-configuring it is still gonna have to be done pretty deep into it.

>>3589713
i dunno, you overlook humanities tribalism and...im not sure what its called, but the effect of hearing over seeing. many and more, though probably those further from America, will probably not actually trust the rumors its her that stopped it, or just outright not care. many and more might see her as having ruined their chance at what they wished to gain, or just generally see a hero as something much different than a leader. plenty of reasons why her influence might not be anywhere near what you hope it would be, its just how humanity tends to be. certainly shes not gonna be able to clean up the world in her lifetime, and once shes gone like so many before her, no one will be able to hold her legacy together like her, because no one else did what she did.

i suppose she could try to becomes immortal, but if the Crucible itself doesn't grant that, i cant see that being easier to obtain after its stopped, and it brings up a whole other issue of 'no one likes immortal gods ruling over them.'

>>3589703
>>3589713
>Engines
im not sure the engine would be good at many of those, as they were very specifically built with aiding in completion of the Crucible in mind. but yes, they might have some uses, but nothing that wont only further create a choke hold where those that have them hold excessive power.

>>3589734
on life and death, it'll be an odd thing. only so many abilities might increase ones lifespan, though even abilities like Isabelles might not actually stop aging overall, so for better or worse, death by age will still be a thing. the dream daughters are an interesting issue, but i suppose that would entirely be up to the Daughter in question(hopefully) if they wish to be consumed to continue living as one for awhile longer. but as the methods to further continue a DDs existence after their host is gone is limited, i dont think it'll actually be a big deal, as they still will know and expect to eventually get their eternal rest eventually, so theres probably not much fear of getting eternally stuck in some form of living.

as for the next Generation? we do as we always have. try or best to teach them right, but know they will get things wrong, and that no legacy lasts forever, only bits and pieces of it. as time marches on, opinions and ideas change, culture shifts, and all you can do is build a solid foundation for the next generation to further build on, and simply hope they will keep what is good. but as we know, such is not always the case, but its what you must accept.
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>>3589734
Yeah, that's going to be a tricky matter. I figure we'd probably create what amounts to an artificial afterlife. Some sort of shared Dreamscape that everyone's connected to, and is transferred to upon death so long as enough of their biomass survived whatever killed them for a clear mind-imprint to exist. I'm sure some people would opt out, though, thinking that it's trapping the soul from the real afterlife or that the mind-imprint isn't really them or the like. From there they could visit the living in their dreams or even (once we have the tech for it) be reborn without needing a Sparagmos Engine, in a proxy body like Professor Uzu had.

The cultural difference between first generation Daughters and everyone who comes after is going to be weird, though. It would be an entire planet with shared guilt and PTSD. "You weren't there in the Crucible, kid. We all ate people. All of us did, every last one of our generation is a cannibal. Don't you dare judge us, you weren't there." Gonna be hard to raise the next generation. Gonna have a lot of cautionary tales that they won't really understand because they never had to deal with the Hunger.

Of course, this is assuming the...well, not worst case scenario, but inferior scenario. Where we regenerate the Earth but are unable to revive the rest of humanity. If anything, things are going to get even worse if humanity is repaired. How are we going to integrate a society of cannibal super-women back into the rest of human culture? The world waking up one day and discovering that they've been dead for two years, and that their mothers, daughters and wives became horrific monsters in the meantime. Psychotherapy is going to be a very profitable profession for a few decades.
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>>3589749
>i dunno, you overlook humanities tribalism and...im not sure what its called, but the effect of hearing over seeing. many and more, though probably those further from America, will probably not actually trust the rumors its her that stopped it, or just outright not care. many and more might see her as having ruined their chance at what they wished to gain, or just generally see a hero as something much different than a leader. plenty of reasons why her influence might not be anywhere near what you hope it would be, its just how humanity tends to be. certainly shes not gonna be able to clean up the world in her lifetime, and once shes gone like so many before her, no one will be able to hold her legacy together like her, because no one else did what she did.
Only if she relies entirely on it being a cult of personality. I think the things you're saying are very true, but that they're obstacles that can be overcome by shifting Shu's strategies as her burgeoning nation-state expands. The very act of recreating civilization will create new culture heroes, and give room to establish a new narrative of shared obligation and ability to restore the world. I think it's possible for her to have a lasting positive impact on the world without having to become an immortal dictator.
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>>3589756
honestly? the world resetting too much might actually be the worse option. sure, getting most or everyone back out into the world is almost a necessity, but jumping back too far to before-crucible mechanics as it was, might be too much. the crucible has limited ability to control non organic matter, so even if we reset the fleshscape, there goes all our cities and technology, except now we no longer have any superpowers or flesh resources to work with to rebuild. we also now have a major part of the population suffering from mental whiplash of seeing the world as it was before, aswell as being utterly used to having abilities they no longer have. and many other problems id imagine.

while it has its own issues, bringing humanity back into a 'freed' form of the fleshscape will still probably work alot better.

>>3589763
oh, well a lasting impact sure, but to the point im gonna say its basically fact that her influence and any peace she brings wont be world wide and wont last more than a generation or two. its just not how humanity works, and, in a kinda twisted way honestly, that innate conflict within our species does have benefits for us as a whole. its just not pleasant to think about, because its not pleasant to experience, despite often leading to positives in some ways.

but honestly, the world will be in such a major upheaval, i really dont think her influence will actually spread that far. she will outright be dealing with an apocalyptic scenario that just had its rules changed yet again in ways even she will have to get used to. she could actually be worshiped as an actual god and still have major issues properly getting anything far reaching or even concrete solidified before she dies, and we know shes not gonna go down that route for sure.
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>>3589784
>while it has its own issues, bringing humanity back into a 'freed' form of the fleshscape will still probably work alot better.
Agreed. That's why my best case scenario is "humanity is back, but Daughters still exist and we still have access to Crucible biomass". We're going to need those tools in order to properly rebuild civilization.

Also, I just realized that what we're proposing is the perfect set up for a super generic battle action harem light novel/anime series. Huge catastrophe in the past that destroyed existing societal structures? Check. Lots of weird superpowers in the world after said catastrophe? Check. An older generation of those with superpowers who are there as a demonstration of what heights the protagonists can reach and eventually possibly even surpass? Check. Superpowers being a female-only thing, nearly universally, so that the male lead of the story can be both extra-special and not have any competition for the girls? TRIPLE CHECK. Body Horror Quest Season II: Body Horror Academy. Coming to Crunchyroll spring of 2022.

...I just threw up in my mouth a little.

>oh, well a lasting impact sure, but to the point im gonna say its basically fact that her influence and any peace she brings wont be world wide and wont last more than a generation or two.
Maybe. But I'd like to think she'd be able to get enough stability that it can cascade on from there. That we might see conflicts, still, but it won't be just a bunch of disparate tribes fighting over the ruins. The only way to stand up to the society she creates would be to build your own, and so we'll eventually get back to something resembling a geopolitical climate instead of Fist of the North Star.
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>>3589756
>super cannibal women
>forgetting that the odd male "daughter" that somehow glitches into the Crucible Game existing (i.e. Dorian Gardner)
Anon. How could you?

>>3589813
>BodyHorror Anime sequel style in a post-crucible society
>so many levels of cringe, to see society become literally all the crappy Fantasy generic anime meme stereotypes in the world.
Nope. just nope. I'll have my Fallout Body Horror spin-off thank you very much.
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>>3589813
>Superpowers being a female-only thing, nearly universally,
actually i doubt that would happen, and would be an major dick move for Shu and Co to leave in, as it used to be Males could participate in the Crucible too, but a past Mother changed that. id assume they couldn't win it, but id imagine they must've still had the same access to abilities, and probably worked like Amalgams, but ones you could talk to and convince to side with you.

id very much say, if destroying the crucible doesn't simply undo those rules naturally, thats a change that would be made if we were to bring back males, hell probably again a necessity for them to even be useful or able to survive.

>Maybe. But I'd like to think she'd be able to get enough stability that it can cascade on from there. That we might see conflicts, still, but it won't be just a bunch of disparate tribes fighting over the ruins. The only way to stand up to the society she creates would be to build your own, and so we'll eventually get back to something resembling a geopolitical climate instead of Fist of the North Star.
possibly. honestly all im getting is roman empire vibes here to be honest, and we know how that ends.

>>3589824
Dorian wasn't a glitch though, as he is still a natural born female. the crucible only cares about biological sex, and thus the only glitches might be those who somehow trick it biologically into thinking they are female, but Dorian doesn't fall into this category.
>>
>>3589824
>Anon. How could you?
I was averaging. They're a statistically insignificant outlier.

>Nope. just nope. I'll have my Fallout Body Horror spin-off thank you very much.
It's truly a horrible thing I have dreamed of, here. I can't look away from the concept, the imp of the perverse has possessed me and I feel compelled to develop it further. I can't decide what the protagonist's Core is, though. What should he have? Humoral Paladin for edgy blood powers? Generator for flashy fire powers? Vitruvian so he's just generically superhuman? I can't decide!

>>3589832
>actually i doubt that would happen, and would be an major dick move for Shu and Co to leave in, as it used to be Males could participate in the Crucible too, but a past Mother changed that. id assume they couldn't win it, but id imagine they must've still had the same access to abilities, and probably worked like Amalgams, but ones you could talk to and convince to side with you.
Shh! Don't ruin this with your "logic" and "sensible arguments based on lore and characterization". We'll just say that was impossible for her for some reason. MC-Kun needs to be the most special male in the world.
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>>3589841
no, your idea is cancer and must be fought with the flamethrower of logic to stop it from ever taking root and becoming a reality. im sorry Anon but its the neuromancer mindwipe pits for you, you simply have becomes too big a threat to civilization.

...in which i have just given a terrible example of just how horrible the world could become post-crucible with such powers in the wrong hands.
>>
>>3589851
So with your example, you've basically said post-Crucible world is still gonna be a Crucible World, except there's no prize of godhood to fight over.
>>
>>3589851
It's too late. I've metastasized. You might be able to wipe out the largest concentration, but this idea will remain in us forever. Lurking, waiting to rise again.
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>>3589573
(That's fairly in line with some Tier 4 Relics I have waiting in the wings, so I would rank it was such. A fantastic idea, thank you for sharing!)

>>3589813
>>Body Horror Quest Season II: Body Horror Academy. Coming to Crunchyroll spring of 2022.
>>Pic related.
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>>3589858
kinda? i mean, with no goal of winning the crucible to strive for, yeah things will change drastically, and revert back to humanities old antics of tribalism, fighting for land and resources, all that good stuff. sure, civilizations and settlements will slowly start to emerge, but for a good few generations most of the world will still basically be wild-lands, many areas the wild west if your lucky to even have that modicum of civilization.

and our ethics and morals will be thrown into a blender. sure, many aspects will still easily still hold weight and value, but many more will dissipate and new ones will take root, just ones never possible to even be considered before.

and you think the atrocities humanity has thus far committed are bad? whew, crucible abilities will make the holocaust seem like a light thing. thats harsh wording but it would easily be able to be true. because now you arent just slaughtering people you dont like, you are consuming them while alive so you can see their tortured faces as their very soul feeds your empire. you now roll them up into torture balls or shove them into torture relics. many terrible ideas, and far too many people willing to enact them.

and now, they no longer have a mainline goal to distract them from their terrible thoughts, and possibly nothing else to strive for, especially if they are bitter over essentially losing the competition.

sure, there are and will be good folks forming good communities, and most people are not bad, but most are not good either, and being thrown into a world of flesh powers and lawlessness will leave far more than most would like to admit willing to follow even a pretty fucked up individual out of desperation or hope for their own slice of power. in our society, no human is really stronger than another, can no human can really get too much stronger than another, and tools like knives or guns helps even the odds, and in alot of ways this does help even people out, especially those in society on the edge between sociopath and civilized.

...but now, some are just inherently more powerful than others, and if you work at it, you CAN becomes a juggernaut to crush others under you feet. even Relics require innate strength to make ones of any real power, as they require your own strength to forge. both temptation and necessity like never before would be available to people, if they only do a few terrible acts in the dark that no one needs to know about, until its too late to stop them.

Beacons of Hope like Shu will have an oppressive darkness like never before to shine through, for sure.

>>3589868
ok, so you and everyone you have interacted with needs their mind dug out til they are clean, ok.

>>3589887
oh, awesome. glad you like it. certainly looking forward to seeing what the actual limits of T4 and T5 truly are, as i think ive got T1 through T3 down actually, in what will be considered what, though there is a bit of blurriness between T1 and T2.
>>
>>3589841
Just use "SON OF EVE" idea that I pitched back in vein #22 and have him Survive the Crucible's beginning and end, screw with his aging process, and have him become of age by the time setting your idea takes place and there you go. A perfect male lead for that cancerous idea of yours.
>>
>>3589896
>>3589887
This calls into question the criteria that defines what tier a relic belongs to.
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>>3589913
well, from what i gather, and
>>3589887
BHOP can criticize how correct i am;

>Tier 1
tend to be extremely simplistic, their uses very specific and limited. often limited or very plain combat utility.

>Tier 2
Tend to allow for some complicated applications, and can have strong combat uses, but tend to have strong limitations and power caps.

>Tier 3
Here, Relics potential power hits a high point. Relics of this caliber in some form or another, usually increase in potency and power along with their wielder, though the exact method can vary greatly, unlike Tier 2 they will never simply become too weak to use on a technicality, though higher Tier Relics could still give similar benefits at better rates or better ways.

oddly, from what ive seen so far, though limited of course, Tier 4 and 5 dont seem to have continuous growth in some form alongside their wielder, but rather from what ive seen of Tier 5 at least, they simply have effects of such potency to never becomes obsolete.
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>>3589900
ive had an idea bugging and mulling about my head for awhile now that i think is a bit less cancerous for a sequel.

basically, once the Crucible was ended, the Cord was partially destroyed in the process, and the skin flap covering earth broke off and now covers the moon. Amara was the leader of the City Shu and Co founded inside the remnants of the Cord, both to protect its darker secrets from falling into the wrong hands, and to study and use what secrets survived to humanities benefit. Shu and Co were long dead, Amara herself being super damn old, and it was almost more like a coven/crusader city, as a major goal of their was to go out and destroy or collect terrible things that had escaped or been flung out when the cord broke.

The story idea itself follows a pretty fucked up individual, who was a man who, like most others, spawned randomly in the wilds, as with the Cord breaking, everyone's backup from the old world was slowly 'leaking' back out into the world, meaning people all the time would just spawn in random locations, often far far from where they were supposed to be, and who knows how long since the crucibles end, and who knows if they already missed living with their loved ones, or if their loved ones would spawn long after they were dead, let alone anywhere close enough to ever meet them. As you can imagine, this makes things very hard for people, even if they are lucky enough to awaken in someplace safe.

The specific individual here left off with his close family-like friends on a bad note, and suffers greatly from a guilt complex of both not getting to properly make amends to them, and thinking they deserve to be here instead of him.

The overall story would be based around a group of cult like individuals who are trying to dig up old cord information to enact an emergency signal that would call another crucible towards earth, and restart the crucible, and the MCs quest to prevent that.
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>>3589962
I'll give you my thoughts on it in about 8~ish hours. I need sleep.
>>3589948
And for the criteria you've deduced, I think I now have a better understanding of the kinds of relics I can design now.

>>3589868
Also, pic related is what it feels like for us three anons to be this involved in the quest if we were eldritch beings.
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>>3589986
sleep tight. dont let the eldritch flesh gods bite!
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>>3589986
Ooh, dibs on triangle head!

>>3589992
Good night, anon. I should be heading to sleep, myself.
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>>3589887
Hey Bhop, I do have a question to ask of you:

When Amara creates a clone, can that summoned clone act immediately or does it take the summoned clone 1 round to get ready before it can fully act "aka summoning sickness"?
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>>3589948
oddly, the new relics we got from the armory both back up everything ive said here, and point out an oddly lacking number of T3 relics to be found or designed so far. i cant find the Hydras Heart info so i cant confirm that one, but id imagine T3 but its Tier has not been given to us so moot point.
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>>3590732
>>3589948
T3 relics are at that weird spot where most of them that have been created are of the evolving type that grows with their wielders. The more investments you put into them their utility grows to a point where a Max level Cursus Alas could be functionally indistinguishable from a T4 or a T5 relic due to the sheer utility the relic has for any daughter

>XY SYMBIOTE: The Ancient Symbol of Mars crafted in Brass, bone, and blood. An egg sits in the center of the symbol, gently pulsing with the potential of new life. A Masterpiece made by a Daughter who lost her fraternal twin, this relic was made to create a fully functioning fraternal twin of herself, copying everything from memories, personalities, powers, and her status as a daughter, except for a genetic change in gender from female to male. Creating the clone requires the daughter to Jam the relic into their womb with 9 days of incubation before giving birth to the clone the old fashioned way. The most frequently used power the daughter has is then copied and passed onto the clone as a core ability and reset back to level 1, with any capstone abilities gained preserved and changed to Passive abilities. The Relic is destroyed upon the twin's birth. A very own clone of your own but with a Y Chromosome instead of an X.
Relic Tier: 5
Your thoughts on this relic idea? I based it off of a song by Issac Asimov called "A clone of my own"
Full song lyrics here:
http://members.tripod.com/~bardic_circle/aclone.htm
>>
>>3590885
i actually kinda disagree with that, as Flight i dont see as that big a boon. its useful but not T4-5 level of useful, especially with Abilities that just straight up give you that at their start. the way Cursas Alas is designed too makes it a hard T2, as it have very strong limits, and nowhere near the utility T5s have been shown to have, and id assume T4s aswell. if its Boost and Flight mechanics were more based off of the user than itself, id be T3-4, but with both it has hard limits based solely on itself.

>Relic
feels very odd it would make a male clone, if at all possible considering the Crucible itself might limit that, regardless of the potency of Hexxane Tech. regardless, its not a bad relic, i mean a perfect individual full Daughter backup of yourself basically is very powerful sure.
i gotta say its awkward and doesn't sit right with me, but i think this is more because birth based relics and abilities are starting to pop up often enough its looking like someone has a fetish they are a bit too open about now. im not even sure your the one posting all of them ind you, but its still not a thing i expected or wanted to see start to become commonplace.
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>>3590681
(An excellent question. They do have summoning sickness at their current level for moves that take an ACT to perform, through each of them have a free action to speak or activate any powers that can be done with said free action.)
>>
>>3590934
I think Tier 5 Relics are those that modify basic aspects of the Crucible's mechanics. Arbiter's Appetite making Consume more controlled, level five Sui Tormentis giving a new skill without needing to eat someone, Escher's Gear letting the user establish their own Waystations, the Ascendant's Crown granting immunity to mental effects to the point it can remove Mother's direct control. That's my understanding of it, that a Tier 5 isn't just useful because it's powerful but because it breaks the established rules.

>>3590946
I just had a wicked idea but I need confirmation on part of it: B'Ni throwing one of her limbs away to teleport via the core in it would technically count as a projectile attack, yes?
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>>3590934
I'll admit the birth-based mechanic is an uncomfortable thing to deal with despite the setting, I just find it odd that it is an aspect of bodyhorror that hasn't been really explored.
It's strange really. We have all these powers that warp the body to strange ways but somehow we stay away from manipulation of the human body's reproductive systems...
It's a hard sell I admit, since talk like this could easily go into /d/ territory if left unchecked.

Looking back upon the Relic's design, I do admit that I might've gone a tad overboard, but my design philosophy whether it be game theory or simply world building is that "No benefit is without drawbacks". Making a perfectly functioning clone is fine, barring the bio cost to create a relic that can perform and fulfill that function, but in the spirit of the song that the relic is inspired from, I had to think of another drawback that would merit a justified drawback to create a male clone to bypass the girls-only rule instead of having the Crucible simply spawn another same-gender clone, hence the birth-mechanic. The relic is using the Daughter as a template and using the Daughter's own base template to create the clone not the Crucible's power (using the crucible code would simply make a daughter with a guaranteed female genetic code).
>>
>>3590986
i can see it, its a nice baseline to try and understand T5 at least.
though keep in mind Sui level 5 i do not think is a Tier 5 relic, the Relics level ups are separate from the Tier system and do not upgrade its Tier ranking, as far as i am aware.

>>3590990
well, i think it makes sense actually. remember, the whole point of the Crucible is for a Daughter to become a Mother, and Birth the next Crucible. the way the Crucible wraps around the planet and incubates its growth is very akin to an egg, and in a kinda disturbing twist it could even be seen as the winning Daughter being a sperm fertilizing said egg. with this in mind, it would make sense that Daughters dont have any birth based powers, as their whole point is to remain virgin as it was, until they have claimed motherhood. why would one have abilities based around motherhood, when the whole game is abased around earning and becoming a mother?

well, heres the thing, a Relic does not have to have a drawback, other than the steep cost to create it. plenty of even T5 Relics we have seen, and lower tier ones too, have had no drawbacks. sure, some do, but its not a requirement, its just i suppose a drawback would lower the cost significantly most likely.

>>3590946
so, while im sure you're gonna say 'spoilers', is there any accuracy to my Relic Tier descriptions a few posts up, and what we have been discussing on them so far?
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>>3591018
>the way the Crucible wraps around the planet and incubates its growth is very akin to an egg, and in a kinda disturbing twist it could even be seen as the winning Daughter being a sperm fertilizing said egg
I always saw it as a womb and embryo, myself. Fleshy sack containing a developing creature, with a Cord connecting the two. The Daughters fighting over who gets to become the Honored Daughter would be analogous to the process of apoptosis in which a mass of undifferentiated cells dies off in controlled locations to give form to the organism. Not to say your take is invalid. There are multiple metaphors you can use, here.
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>>3591018
>>3591054
So then what's the Sperm that Fertilizes the egg?

You know... I think we had this a similar conversation like this early on in the quest, I remember one of us making a wild theory that this Crucible was one Giant metaphor where daughters are basically potential eggs in the planet sized womb waiting to be born after fertilization, but said theory got brushed aside. And now here we are.

And what happens when a Crucible infested planet gets hit by different Crucible Virus? Impregnation?
...
Geez, we're heading into weird territory again. Sex and Reproduction on the Grand Cosmic Eldritch Scale.

Also, I realize after doing a bit of research that if we're planning on having Shu drill through the tunnel door, we can't just go in dry. We need drilling fluid (aka lubricant) to speed up the process of breaking through the wall as well as cleaning out the giblets stuck in the drilled tunnel. More details in the wiki, or just look at pic related.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drilling_fluid
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>>3591086
honestly, something we are overlooking is as far as we know and is implied, Crucibles do not split off into new ones. i mean, theres more than one so obviously somehow that happens, but the process of consuming a planet is not actually that. in a sorta odd way, the Crucible is enacting Phoenix Protocols, in which it rekindles itself not an egg and rebirths itself. doesn't help with deciding whether mine or the other Anons part is more correct on how this process is done, but it is a neat thing to think about.

also im just gonna assume any issues with drilling will be solved via background unsaid or stated solutions, as for obvious reasons i think trying to decide which bodily fluid to use here could easily cross lines id rather us not cross.
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>>3591108
>*rekindles itself as an egg and rebirths itself.
>>
>>3591086
I don't think realistic drilling procedures matter here. For one thing, it wouldn't be conical if we wanted a realistic drill, in actuality those are terrible for drilling holes. Just accept it as the anime giga drill that it is. If you want to justify it, say that since it's an organic construct it secretes its own drilling fluid.

As for what the sperm is in the metaphor, I'd say the Crucible is pulling double duty. It is the sperm impregnating the egg that is the planet, as well as the womb incubating the resulting embryo. I wouldn't be surprised if when it's packed up for travel it's even a compact spheroid with a long flagellum trailing out behind it.

>>3591108
We've had this conversation before, about why the Crucible isn't capable of creating more than one offspring at once. Either it's broken or there's something else that made all the Crucibles. We don't know enough right now, maybe after reading Mother's and Charon's journals we'll find out.
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>>3591133
we have, but ive had to explain things or my thoughts dozens of times before so why would that stop us now?
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>>3591133
also i suppose my "issue" with your take on it ignores the very prominent role Mother and Daughters take in the crucible, aswell as the very obvious and real metaphor of a Daughter transitioning into the Mother role.
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>>3591133
It could be that this Crucible Virus was once able to produce twins or multiple offsprings in the past iterations, but then a patch note happened during one crucible, so now we're stuck with a Crucible virus that belongs to a bottlenecked strain.
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>>3591157
speaking of that, do we actually know what Mothers major change to the crucible was? i dont think its actually been stated yet.
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>>3591166
We really don't know. Bhop said the patch notes exist in the Cord or somewhere in the fleshscape, but getting to it is more difficult than reading the patch notes. Even more difficult is trying to find a way to counteract or properly disarm those patch note changes.
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>>3591155
I'm mostly taking it as a metaphor, anon. I'm not trying to explain the process, I'm just looking at the symbolism of it. I don't think there's anything directly analogous to this in nature that we can point at and say "it's that, this is how it works". Closest I can think of is shark embryos battling in the womb, but even that doesn't quite fit. So I'm not disputing your interpretation.

>>3591157
Could be. That's one of the possible ways it was broken.

>>3591166
Maybe that's why there were fourteen Ascendants in the Hexane cycle. The "one Honored Daughter per cycle" rule is newer than we think, and in Mother's cycle there could have been multiple children resulting.
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>>3590986
(Oh, it absolutely does.)

>>3591018
(You've been quite accurate, yes.)

>>3590990
(Yeah, there have been quite a few powers I've toyed with and even more that have been posited by my friends that I've just had to veto since they would automatically take the quest in a direction best left alone.)
>>
God I fucking hate Shu I hope she dies.
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>>3591190
>(Oh, it absolutely does.)
So, say, a field of invisible Amara clones maintaining Queen Crimson would be an excellent way to confine B'Ni, then? She tosses out a finger (since without Vitruvian Burst I doubt she'll be willing to use entire limbs anymore), it lands somewhere close to an Amara, they toss it back at her before she can grow a Resentiment's Mirror out of it. Alright, then, let's definitely bring a bunch of Amara clones with us when we catch up to B'Ni, and try to stall for a bit talking to her while they bud enough to completely saturate the area.
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>>3591183
>>3591189
yeah, it seems we might not know for sure until its basically the end. it could be the one person thing, but we may actually have some hints, with Mothers implied obsession or tinkering with the corruption and what it is meant to do. i suppose that could fall under her admin rules, but it seems odd how its purpose was explained so heavily intertwined with Mothers personal stances. if i had to guess, the 'corruption' did not exist before, except as the necessary changes to the body for an ability to work. the unnecessary 'drive people away' segments were without a doubt her addition, but i suppose just like her changes to only allow a single person to climb the cord from an allied group, it might not the a major enough change to count...that is, unless her change was an overall arching change made to prevent cooperation as a whole, or the change was further invigorating Mothers control.

>>3591190
>quite correct
well, im glad im not shooting in the dark then. all that really leaves then is the line between T4 and T5 overall. the only confirmed T4 example we have to work off of is
>>3589373
mine here, so its not the biggest basis to work off of. any ideas?

>>3591197
hey BHOP i think your designated Troll is back!
>>
also, really dumb thought, but do you think if Mother dies, the format and wording of Relics and Abilities will change? it was implied the names are in all caps due to it being one of Mothers jobs to regulate them, for instance, so would that stop once she is gone?
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>>3591345
that's some spicy food for thought. For all the cruelty Mother has done, there are some things she has done as Administrator that might have mad the game run more efficiently with admin oversight rather than letting the core code auto resolve any conflicts in wording. Who knows? she might've even made deals and geas contracts with other otherworldly creatures that aim to plunder the Crucible world but were held back in check by Mother.
>>
right, a few more Relic ideas ive got;

>NE GLORIABITUR; this surprisingly thin, single handed Axe is simple in its purpose. Instead of harming an enemies Health, this Axe instead directly harms their Health and Bio Regen, doing permanent damage to both until the combat is over. The application is simple, hit the enemy, and your equivalent damage with such a weapon will damage the targets Regen stats instead, Bio Regen acting like destructible armor for their Health Regen, much like regular armor would for standard Health. This weapon can reduce the targets Regen stats to zero, but not into the negatives, and does nothing to the targets standard stats, though the target still feels pain upon being struck.

>CULLING BEACON; this small relic is akin to a red, round light atop a thick spike. Inserted into the ground, one presses the top, and if smart, finds shelter, for the flashing light atop is accompanied by an invisible wave of energy that permeates the very fleshscape itself. This wave travels out numerous miles in every direction, catching the attention of all Amalgams it touches and drawing them towards the device, often with the Amalgams purposefully drawing towards each other as they approach to form large hunting packs. Its a simple, straight forward device, that one could use to overwhelm an enemy, or bring valuable biomass to themselves, though the risk is without a doubt great.


(1/3)
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>>3591485
>SOULBOUND ARBITER(Lv.1); a relic that takes the form of a clear, glass like spike, that upon touching fills with a crescendo of swirling light, in colors that mirrors ones true hearts feelings. The spike is then driven into ones heart, to which it is then powered by ones inner emotions, and of course, life, which greatly influences how the relic operates and takes form.
>>NEGATIVE FORM springs out as a form as twisted flesh and blinking eyeballs, fully replacing one limb of the users choice with a twisted, corrupted weapon of their choice. This form is powered by deep, strong feelings or RAGE, HATRED, SORROW, and ENVY, and takes one fifth the users BIO to summon, and remains summoned for the entire combat, with is minimum damage being based off the cost of summoning it.
>>POSITIVE FORM springs out as a form of pure, hardened crystal, cut perfectly into the shape of the weapon dearest ot the users heart. This form is powered by intense feelings of LOVE, HOPE, KINDNESS, and SYMPATHY, and takes one fifth the users HEALTH to summon, and remains summoned for the entire combat, with is minimum damage being based off the cost of summoning it.
>>BOTH forms grant the user a significantly enhanced form of the weapon summoned, with NEGATIVE focusing on increasing that specific weapon types debuff and effect applications, and POSITIVE increasing that weapon types armor piercing, parrying, and speed applications.
It should be noted, this relic can be safely removed from the user at any time, but suffers from the penalties of becoming unnattuned upon removal. The form of the weapon can also shift unintentionally during combat, but only if ones emotional state heavily shifts at its very core.

(2/3)
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>>3591491
>>(Lv.2); the cost to summon either form is now one fourth the stat they draw from, but for greatly enhanced effects.
>>>NEGATIVE FORM weapons now shave off and steal enemies Health Regen, equal to a fifth the damage dealt to them, and any debuffs one has at their disposal can now be applied through the weapon.
>>>POSITIVE FORM weapons now shave off and steal enemies Bio Regen, equal to a fifth the damage dealt to them, and any elemental damage types the user has may be applied to this weapon, to be shifted between them at will.

>>(Lv.3); the cost to summon either form is now one third the stat they draw from, but for greatly enhanced effects.
>>>NEGATIVE FORM weapons now diminish a foes resistances to Phantasmal and Neuromantic abilities by 25% per strike, and for a cost of three fifths ones Bio Regen per turn activated, the user may activate ‘Full Corruption’ mode, having their entire body be consumed by the weapons form, becoming a living, full body weapon, and having their base Strength, Speed, Debuff chance, and Debuff resistance, increased three fold, but losing themselves to the emotions that fuel this form.
>>>POSITIVE FORM weapons now diminish a foes resistances to Elemental damage types by one level per strike, and for a cost of three fifths ones Health Regen per turn Activated, the user may Activate ‘Full Purity’ mode, having their entire body be encased in a glistening crystalline armor, becoming a living, full body weapon, their base Defense, Perception, Elemental resistance, and Elemental Damage, increased three fold, but losing themselves to the emotions that fuel this form.

>>(Lv.4); the cost to summon either form is now one half the stat they draw from, but for greatly enhanced effects. BOTH forms now start out at level 3s ‘Full’ modes for free.
>>>NEGATIVE FORM now steals enemies Health Regen at one third the damage dealt per strike, and can apply Neuomantic and Phantasmal effects through its strikes, aswell as lowers resistances to them at 40% per strike. For a cost of one's entire Bio Regen per turn activated, one may activate a new ‘Full Corruption’ mode, in which their Strength, Speed, Debuff chance, and Debuff resistances, are increased eightfold, but the longer one stays in this form, the more their body will be irreversibly twisted and mutated by the corruption, aswell as their mind.
>>>POSITIVE FORM now steals enemies Bio Regen at one third the damage dealt per strike, and diminish an enemies elemental resistances at a rate of three levels per strike. For a cost of ones entire Health Regen per turn activated, one may activate a new ‘Full Purity’ mode, in which their Defense, Perception, Elemental resistance, and Elemental Damage, are increased eightfold, but the longer one stays in this form, the more their body will be irreversibly crystalized by their purity, aswell as their mind.

(3/3)
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>>3588072
Why 2 gear spokes?
I get one spoke is for planting the beacon at the Tomb location, but why the second? is it to establish a quick teleport escape to the surface with Escher's gear?
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>>3592036
the first one as stated is to get us out of the Armory, the second he is to place near the Tomb. me and other anons figured if the thing doesn't die or Mother throws something else at us while we wait for Dorian to reach his destination, we can deal with it better on the surface than in an extremely confined space.
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>>3592059
Sound logic, but we should also have to refine our contingency plans too. Also how would Dorian let us know he's planted the first Escher spoke so the party can do a group teleport?
Also, we should have Amara give Julia and Dorian an information update via Joyous Many clones?

You know, this got me thinking... what happens when a teleportation error happens?
Because I want to weaponize Telefragging with the Escher spokes. Somehow. Also, I wonder if it's also possible to teleport Amalgam Corpses? If anything, Phalanx's corpse would be a handy full heal for the party, grab our meal to go and consume it to regain health and bio.
>>3591190
Speaking of eating corpses. iirc Claire caught a bird amalgam and cooked it for everyone to serve as breakfast in the beginning of this vein. So why didn't we get any levels when we ate it for breakfast? was it because Claire cooked it first?

Also, I do have a question regarding Escher's gear. If we had all of our party members strapped into a Hivecraft Hummer, and then installed Escher's Gear into a component of the Hummer, then teleported to one of the Teleport beacons, would the teleport bring everyone in the Hivecraft Hummer as well as the Hivecraft Hummer itself? would it work like pic related?
>>
>>3592133
the plan was to have a Jackling accompany Dorian for communication purposes. and yes we should have Amara tell the home team whats going on...if she can? she can get info from her Clones, but im not actually sure if she can yet send info TO her clones.

i think we didn't get anything out of the Amalgam Claire brought because the amount of Biomass we consumed was not enough to equal any levels. it didn't sound like she had the entire corpse there either, so she probably absorbed most of it, then brought what she thought she needed to cook for us back, but said amount wasn't enough to equal anything.
>>
>>3592145
Any thoughts on the Teleporting partybus (with the party members still inside)? The thought of SUDDENLY MEAT BUS AT 88 MPH IN YOUR FACE would be a really good surprise move.
>>
>>3592166
i dont see why it couldn't be teleported, if thats what you're asking. teleportation as a group is based on physical contact, so sitting in the vehicle would probably count. but we dont have time to go get it, as we left it on the other side of the forest.
>>
>>3592171
We can always render the car dormant and make a new one. Better to be on the move and catching up than hoping/waiting for Dorian to plant the second beacon after we're killed Phalanx, or escaped phalanx via teleporting to the surface. Besides, should the worst case scenario happen to Dorian (he gets wounded and is forced to retreat) we need to rescue him somehow, that's why we make a hivecraft hummer to chase after him.

Should we give Dorian the Homeward nail in case things get too dicey for him? I feel like we should. That way he can plant the first beacon at the surface once he reaches topside, plant the tomb once he reaches it, and should things get too dicey, he can plant the second beacon down early and homeward nail back to HQ.
>>
>>3592206
we may simply not have time to craft the hummer, id imagine it takes a bit of time to make something more complicated like that. its a good idea to keep moving ill admit, but i also feel like if we have to rescue Dorian, we have already failed. granted, thats no reason to not be prepared to try and catch up to him, but still. this is also another thing we will have to wait and see how the first round goes before it matters.

also i thought teleportation could only happen with the gear itself? so we couldn't give him a method to teleport himself.
>>
>>3592223
I can't remember the particulars, but it's possible to make a one-use teleport "key" with the Gear. I'd have to go looking for it, it's somewhere in the last thread or two.
>>
>>3592326
It's probably in thread 21 near the posts where Escher's gear is first introduced.
>>
>>3592326
hrm, well ill wait til BHOP gets us the new Relic sheet i suppose.

actually, once we escape the Armory, wouldn't it be in our best interests to immediately teleport home real quick? we want to switch out our party so going home, grabbing Rath and Julia, the teleporting back to the Armory is probably our best bet.

plus, dont we need Rath and Julia to make the Hummer? i could've sworn it was basically a party tech, but with Amara having the least necessity in it, and November having no part in it, so if we want a new Hummer we would need them anyways, right?

...we actually kinda need a new duel tech sheet too, as i think our ones with the Midnight Crew arent on the current one, aswell as our old ones, and a few sparse ones like the Hummer.
>>
>>3592348
we really should bother Bhop about updating those sheets.

>>3591190
Bhop, mind if you update the Relic sheets as well as our dual tech sheets?
>>
>>3592358
...he already said he was gonna update the relic sheet for us before the next Vein....
>>
>HIVECRAFT HUMMER: This Monstrous Beast of an off-road vehicle is a work art when it comes to a family road-trip. Equipped with 4 Knight-class Gurrenling Drill Legs/Wheels, Rook-class Chassis for Sturdiness, An IronBlooded Construct Body Sculpted by a World-class Flesh Artisan for Aesthetic Aerodynamics, Plush FuzzBuzz-grade seat covering and airbags, a 100 Handed Phantom Seatbelt system, Radiant Iginition Nitro and Engines, Halo Navigation, SkinTalker Radio, and cupholders. Capable of turning on a dime with Spiral Tech, the ability to go from Zero to 88 Miles per hour in 6 seconds.

ah ok, so its honestly just a Shu/Rath Duel Tech at its core, or at least for anything actually essential.

>Radio
what is even the point of this? i doubt there are any stations running and even then nothing good is ever on the radio, an AUX port would do us much better.
>>
>>3592386
It's just fun flavor text. Although if I did put my mind into it, it could intercept any open Neuro communication channels and tune in. As for your suggestion of an AUX port, we could also install that. It's just gonna cost a little extra biomass.
>>
>>3592409
Something to work on after this fight, I suppose. If we do make a hivecraft hummer to catch up, it's going to be the most janky bare-bones purely functional vehicle we can. We don't have time for anything else.
>>
>>3592434
>>3592409
There's also the issue that the Midnight Crew left their Bloody CarBoat with our Hummer.
What if we collaborated with the Midnight Crew and made a joint operated vehicle?
>bare-bones Hummer.
>Needs to fit 9 people (Shu's Family of 5 and Jackie's Crew of 4)
If Mother's going to throw more Tokens at us in attempt to stall us with Terraforming bullshit, we're going to need a vehicle that can take the Terraformed pounding and still keep on trucking at 88 to 200 mph. It's gonna have to be functional and barebones no doubt. What about an APC?
or rather the DPC? (Defiant Personnel Carrier)?
We use 6 Knight-class Gurrenlings for wheels, Hundred-Handed Phantom Seatbelts, 2 Rooks for the Chassis, November's Tier 3 Forge Core as the Engine, Shu and Jackie's Blood&Bishop Nitro and a Blood-Iron Body using the Midnight Crew's Constructs?
>>
>>3592434
>>3592466
maybe. if we plan to reach things like bloody 200 MPH though in a bloody 9 person APC, we would probably need to use Rath AS the engine. and that sounds risky.
>>
>>3592466
also why Drillings? Drills would make terrible Tires, Bishops would make alot more sense, as they are already round sacks basically, which is much closer to a tire for sure, and thus would be able to be molded into them easier.
>>
>>3592507
I think the idea is that they're individual drive motors. They're not tires, they have something fitted around them for the actual wheel, the Gurrenlings are just there for RPM.
>>
>>3592521
that doesn't sound right honestly, but whatever, its fleshscape nonsense anyways.
>>
>>3592507
>>3592521
It's there for the real off-road terrain like when we're going up 90 degree Vertical cliffs or upside down like a bug, the Drills become legs that dig into the Terrain and provide really good grip for when Mother burns tokens to flip literal mountains and waves of flesh or opens fissures to impede our path.
Also, it's there for rule of cool. who wouldn't want drills as wheels? it's like having Spiked wheels.
>>
>>3592535
different tastes i guess, as the mental image that gives is pretty stupid looking honestly.

i really dont think she will do much to us personally, its Dorian who needs to look out. all things going well, we wont even need the Hummer. if we need the Hummer, we have already failed so if nothing else we can be assured she probably wont throw anything else at us. i mean, she might literally no longer be the Admin to do that with afterall.
>>
>>3592541
It does make me wonder. How close are we to Isabelle despite being an hour late?
If we weren't close at all, then Mother wouldn't have started burning tokens to impede us. But the fact that she had to burn a at least 2-4 tokens to ensure that Shu's Family and Jackie's Crew are delayed means we're really close to Isabelle.
Which tells us a couple of implications with a few theories:
>Isabelle is traveling at a slower pace than we anticipated.
>Mother's doing her best to ensure Isabelle gets to the tomb safely.
>Mother hasn't told her to hurry up, or rather she can't tell Isabelle to hurry up and run from the danger that is Shu and company. Telling Isabelle to start running would burn more tokens than needed because that action counts as aiding Isabelle. She could burn a token to tell isabelle to hurry up, but that would also mean that her con would start falling apart.
>Mother told Isabelle that the Mind Transfer Relic was a SkinTalker Enhancement relic.
>So why would Mother tell Isabelle to pick up a relic for a class that Isabelle doesn't even know or can't benefit from? what's the story scam that's being fed to Isabelle by Mother?
>>
>>3592590
Yeah, there's a lot about this that just doesn't add up. Like how B'Ni only got here an hour before us when she had a twelve hour head start and was closer to begin with. What did she detour on? Hunting things to get stronger? If so, why? It can't be in preparation for us, because she could have finished her mission already if she hadn't detoured. Maybe to get a Skintalker power? That's the only reason I can think of, she had to go hunt someone with Skintalker abilities first, so she could use what she thinks is a Skintalker enhancer. Whether that's actually necessary is less clear.

I hope it's that, anyway. Because if it's not, then the only reason I can think of for the discrepancies is that this is a trap. Mother spent a token to alter the local fleshscape's memory, and it's giving Amara the wrong information. The Relic that B'Ni took does something else entirely, she's not going for a Hexane corpse, and it's really all just leading us to an ambush. The Phalanx isn't to delay us, it's just to soften us up.
>>
>>3592590
well, i doubt Isabelle is dragging her feet, but yeah she probably doesn't think she needs to outright rush.
also as i stated before, i think the tale she is spinning Isabelle is that she can put the Relic on the Hexxane corpse as a sorta loophole to allow Mother to aid her perhaps. its also possible Isabelle absorbed an Skintalker at mothers insistence and was told it would be necessary to do something with the corpse.

thinking about it, id reckon it IS mothers corpse. becoming Mother im gonna guess is alot more akin to getting your mind ripped out and put into a new body custom designed to be Mother, OR your body is sorta hooked up to the controls to allow you to better run things, and she spent some tokens or found a loophole to move her base of operation. probably something closer to the first, but she still has some form of connection to it, because its her corpse. im gonna guess a loophole where she can appear in peoples minds, aka very high Neuromancy, but her own vessel she can slip into more.

see, the thing is, if she was gonna transfer Isabelle into the corpse, she wouldn't have to lie. hell, id argue at this point, she could easily spin a tale where, if it was possible, she could transfer herself into it through Isabelles mind, she could convince Isabelle she is respawning Mother so Mother can directly help her. but instead she is outright lying about the device, which really only leaves the option shes gonna transfer herself into Isabelle, as otherwise Isabelle would have no reason to fear the device.

putting the info together, Isabelle must think she is not there to consume the corpse, but get something from it, something only Skintalker abilities can get her. but that wouldn't make sense, unless the corpse was a skintalker, or Isabelle was one, and considering Isabelle sat around for so long, its much more likely the corpse is. so Isabelle is going to a Corpse to put a Skintalker Relic on it and have the Relic aid her, from her perspective, not realizing Mother is bamboozling her into using the Corpse as a Conduit to take over Isabelle.

or well, honestly i think is what makes the most sense. it doesn't help that Isabelle is desperate and single minded, so its probably really easy to trick her right now, regardless of what is going on.
>>
>>3592627
that cant be it, as if Isabelle had a Skintalker power, she wouldn't of needed Mother to make the tunnel.
>>
>>3592664
Oh, yeah, it's definitely Mother transfering out, not B'Ni in. That is the goal for sure. Mother wouldn't even have to lie, just give a misleading selective truth. After all, installing Mother with her own Skintalker core into B'Ni would enhance her use of Skintalker powers, technically.

>>3592680
Unless she still has a very limited vocabulary. I don't think Amara could make a tunnel, not reliably.
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>>3592727
...the elevator. Amara didn't even need a word, all she needed was to be a skintalker to enter the place. if Isabelle was one, it would be the same thing. the elevator simply responded to Skintalkers, not required any other words.
>>
>>3592738
Oh, right. Sorry, been kind of sick today, brain am not working well. Yes, right. Okay, then, I have no idea what B'Ni was doing. And I am very worried by that.
>>
>>3592627
>>3592664
Lets review the facts and go over everything that's been stated IC and BHOP's word.

Lets start with MOTHER'S WARNING TAUNT:

THE REASON IS SIMPLE
I HAVE MORE PRESSING CONCERNS
THAN ANOTHER VICTIM OF HOPE
REST
IN THE EVENING I HAVE GRANTED YOU
BREATHE
FOR IN THE NIGHT I SHALL DRAW BREATH
SLEEP
THIS RESPITE IS MY GIFT TO YOU
IT IS THE LEAST I CAN DO TO REPAY YOU
AFTER ALL, DEFIANT
YOU HAVE GIVEN ME SUCH A WONDERFUL GIFT

Anonymous (ID: c5lGaez1) 06/04/19(Tue)20:27:10 No.3554837
No, Mother has very little control over the Crucible. She's stuck up there playing with the most indirect tools, that she can only use when allowed to by the Crucible's systems. If she wants to do anything to the Crucible, whether speed things up or take it over or whatever, she can't do it on her own. But if she managed to acquire a body separate from the Cord, then she could make use of that to act much more directly. And come on, what else does "I shall draw breath" mean, if not her living again in a new form?
>This also brings this inferred rule to mind. Mother can't interact with the world unless she's directly interacting with a daughter via dream or through a proxy (Charon).
Or a new body, of her own.

BodyHorrorOP (ID: BLFzuu8A) 06/18/19(Tue)10:14:42 No.3583024
>>3583012
(I would also like to point out that >>3583007 's hypothesis was very close when he first posited it, to the point where I was fretting that one of the two people in existence that know the general plot beats had started messing with me.)

>"B'ni." You breathe, watching her stride to the armory and re-emerge moments later with an object held in each hand, thought the memory's too grainy and ill-defined to make them out. You can, however, see her expression; defiance alight in her glittering eyes, her face the one of a girl focused on a singular, all-consuming goal, heedless of reason......or treachery.

>"Amara, what were those two Relics she took?" You question, tuning out the conversation around you and turning to the small girl at your side as she struggles to answer.
>"The first one's...kind of a brain...transfer...thing?" Amara says, wholly uncertain. "I think it switches your mind for someone else's, but Mother didn't tell B'ni that..."
>"What did she tell her?" You press, your throat dry.
>"Mother said it's a Skintalker power enhancer."
>"Amara, what was the other thing?" You continue, and Amara looks far more assured as she answers while you ignore Jackie's tirade.
>"A key!" Amara replies. "To another Hexagon place, further west!"
>"Another armory?" November offers, but Amara just shakes her head.
>"Nope! Mother told B'ni that's where the body is, and that's what she going there for!"

So we have a Hexxane Corpse
A key to a tomb
A Mind Transfer Relic
Mother's Lie about a the Mind Transfer Relic being a SkinTalker Enchancer
Mother planning Treachery on Isabelle
and Mother spending Several Admin tokens Assisting Isabelle and Hindering Shu's Party.
>>
>>3592748
hey, we all have bad days.
you are right though, it is odd she spent so much time doing...something. i think my overall analysis is correct, but tht is a major gap that needs filling. it wasn't to get a Skintalker ability, but then what? what coul-

>Gina hasn't said one bloody word to us about any of this.
>At some point within the last hour it would've been obvious as all hell we were getting close to Isabelle, even if Gina couldn't know exactly what she was up to, due to her saying she can sense how close Isabelle is to us if nothing else.

...oh fuck. Isabelle had Neuromancy. im thinking Mother got her to level it up to blind our connection to Gina, if not outright Spawn an Amalgam(s) that would give Isabelle what she needs. even if Gina couldn't see the big picture, theres no way she wouldn't of mentioned SOMETHING here unless she outright no longer could...and just last night before we slept, this was no an issue, so that means within that blind spot is exactly when this would of happened.
>>
>>3592774
B'Ni is unable to maintain Neuromantic effects, though. She still has Font of Suffering. I guess it could be a passive ability, though. Gina has trouble contacting out from inside B'Ni at the best of times, so it doesn't need to be active jamming keeping her from warning us, but that would give a good explanation for what B'Ni was doing. Alternatively, she was getting Neuromancy to be better able to interface with the brain-swapper. A lot of Hexane tech needs Neuromancy to control them properly, maybe that's the case here.
>>
>>3592802
no, you misread, she only cant maintain it if her Regen activates, which outside of combat would never be an issue. she also has that anti radar neuromantic stealth ability, remember? plus, it isnt that Gina has trouble reaching us, its that it hurts her if she does it too long or too often. but do you really think use getting close to Isabelle, the one thing she said she would always warn us about, she wouldn't be willing to suffer a bit of pain over? even moreso if she even has an inkling of what Isabelle is up to.

the fact we have not heard from Gina makes no sense given the circumstances, unless Isabelle had used that time to find a way to block her. Mother also outright knows we have that connection to Gina, and knows about Hexxane Tech, and specifically targeted Isabelle over what we did to her, so she would know for her plan to work, and keep us away longer, she would need to get Isabelle to block the connection.
>>
>>3592774
It does make sense. Which is all the more dreadful when you think about it. If you remember correctly, Isabelle Consumed Gamma West, who consumed Ceres, a Neuromancer whose ability was Neuromantic Concealing clouds, the same ability Isabelle used to track and ambush us.
The last we saw Isabelle's character Sheet, we voted to delete Her Core, Vitruvian Burst, and Persistent Ouroboros. But she also had Secluded Mind, which is a Neuromancy ability that shuts out all communication between the Dream Daughter and Host daughter. Gina had to expend herself to try and power through Secluded Mind at risk of damaging her dream self. And Now Isabelle has an ability that allows her total Neuromantic Concealment from both Inside and Outside.
Isabelle must've told Mother what happened.

>Mother Spawning Amalgams to help Isabelle Powerlevel her Neuromancy
If Mother did actually spend time to Spawn Amalgams for Isabelle to power level, that's a lot of tokens she's burning through.
As of this Vein Mother:
>(Created a Tunnel for B'ni to use to Access the Hexxane Armory to bypass the SkinTalker lock) 1 Token
>(Disabled the Hexxane Armory's Security System to aid Isabelle) 1 Token
>(Terraformed a Barrier to seal the Tunnel Entrance to the Armory to block Shu and Party from leaving) 1 Token
>(Spawned an Amalgam in the same Zone as Shu and party to occupy their time) 1-2 Tokens
>(Told Isabelle the location of the Hexxane Armory, straight from the mouth. Aiding Isabelle and giving away a fleshscape secret that normally needs to be explored and discovered the proper way)
That's at least 4-5 Admin Tokens Mother's Burnt so far.
Mother spawning Amalgams for Isabelle to power level off of would burn at least 1-3more tokens since it would
>Burn 1 Token for spawning an amalgam in the same zone as Isabelle.
>Burn another Token as Isabelle would defeat the spawned cheat.
>Mother could spawn the Bodyhorror equivalent of a Loot Pinata, and give Isabelle a weak amalgam filled to bursting with 10 levels worth of essence.
>>
>>3592827
>no, you misread, she only cant maintain it if her Regen activates, which outside of combat would never be an issue.
No, I get that, I just think it's a risk if she has to maintain it constantly. One hit along the way and suddenly Shu's party knows what she's doing. Then again, Mother might be clearing her path. And, as I said, it might be a passive ability.

>she also has that anti radar neuromantic stealth ability, remember?
I'm pretty sure we made that up. We never had any confirmation on that, we just went "hey, how'd she sneak up on us?" and assumed she had a power for it. It was an assumption based on her grabbing the neurocloud power from West, but even if she did we don't actually know what that does. From what I recall, BHOP said that she snuck up on us mostly because we were all distracted, not because of any ability she had.

> even moreso if she even has an inkling of what Isabelle is up to.
She doesn't. Gina couldn't hear Mother's side of the conversation, she doesn't know why B'Ni wanted this Relic. As for getting close to B'Ni, maybe she's just moved far enough away for Gina's sense to not see her as being close to us. She was here an hour ago, maybe we were never close enough.

But still, not saying this is impossible. It could be what B'Ni was spending her time on. Honestly, I hope it was, it's one of the less-dangerous uses of her time I can think of. It may be both, even, getting Neuromancy both to jam the connection and make it easier to interface with the Relic.
>>
>>3592867
>A pair of dull emeralds regard you coldly, flicking from your gaze to give a slow pan across your allies as a lance of terror pierces your heart at the arrival of your oldest friend, standing like a jet-black scar on the beach that stretches before you.

>"...How?" You breathe.

>"Neuromancy, courtesy of West's recent acquisition. Keeps me off the radar, and all I had to do was follow you as you left town." She explains dully, gaze centering back on you. "Did you really think I wouldn't check your home base first?"

anon. Isabelle fought, killed, and consumed West Gamma. West Gamma recently killed and consumed Bloody Myrmidon (Humoral Paladin), Dinea (Leech themed Hive Mistress), Maggie (Balloon Flesh Artisan), and Ceres (Neuromancer who uses Cloud of Neuromancy to conceal her presence) before she got killed by Isabelle.
By that Logic, Isabelle Inherited Cere's Core ability (Neuromantic Cloud Cover), which allowed her to sneak by Gina's Neurotic Halo Radar.
>>
>>3592867
nah, we didnt make that up, Isabelle straight up told us she had taken such an ability from West.

>>3592860
yeah, shes spent alot of Tokens, and even moreso when you remember some of those will be double hits. still, theres no ways shes risking us beating this and deleting her, so shes gotta have bit of a reserve handy. one of my worries is, if we do pull this off, im thinking she might run herself dry pulling some bullshit on us, basically already considering herself dead so why not go out giving us the middle finger?
>>
>>3592892
>>3592893
I don't remember that conversation at all. Okay, I'm more out of it than I thought. I actually spent most of the day sleeping, maybe I should go back to bed. Clearly I'm not firing on all cylinders yet.
>>
>>3592901
but Anon, its only 11 on a Friday night, the weekend is coming up! the night is still young, as they say.

but nah, if you're still sick you probably need rest, dont overexert yourself on our behalf.
>>
>>3592911
Yeah, I'm going to head to sleep before I start forgetting more facts about the quest. What's our character's name again? Sam, I think?

Good night, everyone.
>>
>>3592893
It also brings this to question: how big is Mother's Admin Token pile?
>(You're absolutely correct; Mother is breaking the rules, and she's not doing so without severe cost to herself and her own continued existence. Allow me to delve a little more into the rules, as its very relevant for the Quest's 2nd Act. In terms of hard mechanics, it works like this-The Admin has a set of abilities that work on a cooldown, i.e. spawning Amalgams in unoccupied areas, changing the terrain as long as it does not hinder Daughters currently traversing the area, minor things. At certain player thresholds [i.e. the main player characters] she may make a single rule change to keep things fresh and amp up the difficulty. All of these minor things are represented by a small pool of points that refresh each session, represented here by white Reversi tokens.)

>small pool of points
>Burning 4-5 Admin tokens up to this point
>possibly 3 more if Mother actually spawned level-up pinatas for isabelle to butcher
4-8 tokens isn't a small pool, that's relatively large in a region by region basis. Also, Mother burning more tokens to pull more bullshit on is via terraforming or spawning amalgams right in front of us is why we need to build that APC. Probably 2 tokens per terraforming obstacle (assuming we conquer each Terraforming Hinderance) and 1 token per Amalgam spawned like deers crossing the road in the way of our oncoming vehicle. It's gonna be even more dangerous for Dorian because not only he's relatively squishy, his only defense is his speed, and he's practically running blind without any knowledge of where the hexxane tomb is located.

>>3592901
I'll give you the sourced veins to help you confirm and connect the dots.
Vein #15 is where Shu meets Cere's Team, each of them showcase their rudimentary core abilities
Vein #19 is where West Gamma blabbed about her recent acquisitions and her showcasing the abilities she consumed from killing Cere's Team
Vein #20 is where Isabelle said she got Neuromancy from West Gamma's recent acquisitions (aka Cere's ability)

>>3592923
Get well soon and get some rest.
>>
>>3592923
(Rest well, and feel better soon.)

(I wish you all a good rest, Anons.)
>>
>>3592946
well, you are overlooking one VERY big factor....Mother is the Admin for the ENTIRE PLANET. its her job to keep the entirety of the planet stocked and in order. 20, even 30 Tokens, would be an astronomically small amount of tokens when you take that into account, and she has the same pool she has to use for the entire world. yet i can almost guarantee you 30 might already be above how many she started with, if shes already showing signs of running low.
>>
>>3592979
you know, sometimes i forget you're sometimes sitting in the background, basically watching us from the shadows. probably eating handfuls of popcorn chuckling to yourself too.
>>
>>3592979
And here he is.

>>3592986
Sometimes I imagine Bhop being the Distaff Counterpart to Mother, instead of being vindictive, petty, and being a massive bitch, Bhop is the Eldritch mix of a Fatherly Bob Ross and Fred Rogers, he's supportive, gives information/clarification with honesty when it's deemed fair to do so, and showers us with praise and rewards for playing the game well even if we try to break the game that is the Crucible.
>>
>>3593017
it is an interesting scenario. an excessively nice QM with excessively evil villains.
>>
>>3592986
>>3593017
>>3593094
(Ha, thank you for your kind words. I do try, so I'm glad my particular style of DM/QMing is to your liking.)
>>
>>3592982
>Admin for the Entire Planet
I wonder what other bargains and geas Mother made as Admin, it can't be simply Charon and Ringo she made a contract deal with as Admin for over the past 2-4 years of the Crucible's life on Earth. She must've made other deals with other Eldritch aliens, Star Gods, or planet eaters to ensure the Crucible can hatch safely and run smoothly.
Those Contracts must be also dependent on Mother maintaining her position as Admin, or an expenseshe provides as admin by expending a small portion of her tokens to keep Crucible predators/parasites at bay.
>>
>>3594043
Id be surprised actually if the crucible didn't have automated defenses against outside interference. Or considering it took a few thousands years i think for the crucible to reach earth, or Maybe find it, that implies this universe runs on the 'life is rarer than not' theory, as id hardly think the crucible has not figured out efficient space travel, meaning its may not but thus may also not have to worry about anything finding it to stop it in the first place.

Otherwise though, it would be interesting to see things start trying to meddle once she is gone, ill admit that.
>>
>>3594064
I thought the implication was that Mother was just moping about in space instead of actively searching for a suitable planet. That's how West's notes made it sound. I think that for star-faring planet-parasitism to be a viable reproductive strategy, life has to be at least decently common. If other void-entities aren't around, it's probably just because the Crucible has marked Earth for its own.
>>
>>3594146
Who said it was Mother piloting the crucible during that time? Also you say that, but it still took a creature custom designed to eat planets thousands of years to find another to eat.
>>
>>3594146
Just because Mother is the Admin doesn't mean she actively searched for a planet. The Crucible's auto-pilot systems could do it for her. Imagine it as a giant space ship where the ship has charted a course and is presenting options the pilot to choose the next destination. All Mother would do is choose a destination and then the Crucible Cord Autopilot systems would handle the heavy lifting of getting there, leaving Mother with all the time to mope and go through all the stages of grief and depression.
>>
>>3594177
West. West said it was. Her entire plan is based around the concept that the Mother is in control of the Crucible's direction and not just a passenger. Which would explain why it took so long for the Crucible to get to Earth, if this Mother (I can't wait until we read her journals and learn her name, it will cut down on confusion between role and entity) wasn't actively searching for a new planet but just drifting until she came into Sol system by sheer chance.

>>3594185
An auto-pilot would only make sense if the Crucible already knew where more life was to be found. Which would suggest that life is very common, if it's within range of the Crucible's senses and it doesn't have to go searching for it.

Of course, there's also the possibility that the Crucible just isn't capable of FTL travel. Nothing we've seen indicates it is. Teleportation is not necessarily instantaneous, what if Waystations or Tindalos Hounds or whatever just move at light speed? We're not traveling over a large enough distance that we'd be able to tell how fast they're moving, just that it's faster than we can perceive. If the Crucible is stuck with relativistic travel, that would explain the time delay as well.
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>>3594246
I dont think wests notes implied that at all. And wests plan is to hijack and rewrite the crucible, not become Mother as she is now, aswell as she implied she would've been doing research while traveling, not piloting the crucible. She was saying Mother wasted her time moping around instead of studying the knowledge in the cord, nothing about it said or even implied how the crucible finds a new planet to consume, in either direction (auto pilot or not).
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>>3594263
I took it as referring to Mother wasting her time both by not studying the Crucible's recorded knowledge and by not seeking out more. But still, even if it's just the first, that doesn't mean that life must be rare. The Hexane's situation doesn't make any sense if that's the case. They were close enough to other inhabited worlds to study the Crucible and prepare for its coming, they couldn't do that if life wasn't decently common. The second-to-last victim of the Crucible had to have been close enough for them to even notice it was under attack, let alone study it.
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>>3594320
could of been simply happenstance. they happened to have a close by neighbor, unlike most places. we also really dont know how advanced the Hexxane were or for how long they had this in planning. it could've easily been that they accidentally stumbled upon it while sending out satellites to study other planets, then noticed there was a giant fucking flesh blob heading directly for them, but still have done all of this over a few generations...or they just have really long lifespans, but still.

all we know is somehow the Hexxane knew about the crucible and planned for it. how they knew and for how long are still up in the air and could easily still of been a significant amount of time.
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>>3594498
>>3594320
>>3594263
So there's been a few things that's bothering me. Even though we don't have the time to go through the notes and everything that we catalogued in Mother's House because we're planning on doing another HEIST, I just want to posit my thoughts so far.

>"B'ni." You breathe, watching her stride to the armory and re-emerge moments later with an object held in each hand, thought the memory's too grainy and ill-defined to make them out. You can, however, see her expression; defiance alight in her glittering eyes, her face the one of a girl focused on a singular, all-consuming goal, heedless of reason......or treachery.
Why would Bhop state "treachery" when describing Isabelle's expression? With all the facts that we've gathered so far and Isabelle apparently not having any skintalker ability, it just seems apparent that Mother's setting Isabelle up to be disposed the moment Mother manages to be revived.

The fact that the Ten Statues of the 12 Ascendants were enshrined in Mother/Charon's house. It's clear that they were either made prior to the Crucible that killed the Hexxane, or that Charon made those statues in honoring their deaths. Otherwise, why would Charon have time to make them in their house?
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>>3595643
>Why would Bhop state "treachery" when describing Isabelle's expression?
no, he means shes ignoring any hints or possibility of it. shes doing what shes doing regardless of reason or signs of treachery. its there because Mother is and always was untrustworthy, even before we had hints of what she might have planned for Isabelle.

>it just seems apparent that Mother's setting Isabelle up to be disposed the moment Mother manages to be revived.
well, im pretty sure shes planning to take over Isabelles body, but mentally sure.

>Otherwise, why would Charon have time to make them in their house?
honestly? ive no idea on the statues. the fact BHOP said there were '12 ascendants' or whatever only raises questions we simply have literally no information to answer. on a random, out of the blue but related note, i wonder if somehow the Hexxanes biology is the reason for potentially having 12 ascendants, rather than any deliberate change or editing? a sorta 6 sides and 6 points representation of their civilization? could even be a weird thing to do with their reproduction cycles if we wanted to get really weird with it.
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>>3595663
>honestly? ive no idea on the statues. the fact BHOP said there were '12 ascendants' or whatever only raises questions we simply have literally no information to answer. on a random, out of the blue but related note, i wonder if somehow the Hexxanes biology is the reason for potentially having 12 ascendants, rather than any deliberate change or editing? a sorta 6 sides and 6 points representation of their civilization? could even be a weird thing to do with their reproduction cycles if we wanted to get really weird with it.
I think it might just be that there are twelve different classes. Hive Mistress, Calcite Armorer, Neuromancer, Fibromancer, Flesh Artisan, Gluttonous, Humoral Paladin, Generator, Skintalker, Vitruvian, Phantasmal Conduit and Unnatural Predator. Thelis the Mad up here >>3582950 is the "Neurotic Ascendant", to me that says that Neuromancer was their base class. My guess is that the Ascendants were a team of high-level Daughters each with a different Core class. Mother and Charon were either allies of them or (given the description of the Ascendant Crown) members of the group, in which case two of the statues are actually of them. Mother would be whichever one of them is the Skintalker Ascendant, if that theory is correct.
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>>3595749
fair point on the classes, though that is sorta implying their setup was exactly like ours, which we know is not always the case. but that is actually a pretty high coincidence, if they had 12 classes that fits up with their Hexxane themes really well. maybe Mother just didn't allow the classes to reorient themselves around us, and/or it only does that when absolutely necessary. i will say though at the very least the humoral paladin class makes no sense to not be unique to humanity, the way its setup and what its based on really isnt actually something that would ever be the same between two alien species, as its not even entirely scientific, or well, maybe more based on science from before we understood it enough. while they could've had a similar enough class that one at least id imagine would be entirely different in name and construction.
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>>3595771
Yeah, I figure they probably don't map one to one to us, as you say Humoral Paladin is something that the Crucible would have had to adapt for humanity, so it wouldn't be surprising if there were other modifications. But there were still probably analogues. Humoral Paladin might not have been broken down into sub-classes but there would still have been a class about manipulating body fluids (maybe that's why there's only one Humoral Paladin Ascendant instead of four of them, it was all consolidated into one class). Phantasmal Conduit probably worked a bit different since the Hexane were already empaths, but it would still be present. Calcite Armorer might have been "Chitin Armorer" with the Hexane's exoskeletons, but it would still do roughly the same things. Stuff like that.
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>>3595784
fair point. i guess i was more saying, poorly ill admit, that the fact it was exactly 12 classes for them makes sense, but seems odd it would stay the same for us, as it would make sense for the number to change as necessary, but this time it didnt.
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>>3595793
I suspect that the Crucible modifies itself to fit the psychology of its host species, not just their physiology. That would explain the Humoral Paladin issue. Given that our encounters with the Hexane so far have shown them to be fairly human in mentality for hermaphroditic bug people who communicate via color, it wouldn't be too surprising if their Crucible was similar to ours. Then again, we've only known Hexane who have existed in a horrific state enslaved to a world-parasite for thousands of years, maybe this isn't normal behavior for them. We'll find out once we finally get a chance to read those journals.
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>>3595840
indeed. though i think the Contender has given us some pretty useful insights into them, and honestly it makes them almost unimaginable inhuman. he idea of not only physically having no privacy of mind, but being expected to have none even to the point writing shit down was looked down upon? thats a very massive major change that would effect alot.

also its no damn wonder no one saw Mothers betrayal coming either.
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>>3595881
It's different from human psychology, certainly, but I'm not sure it's something totally alien. I can see humans behaving similarly, if we had the same empathic abilities. Which may just be coming back to that classic idea that no fictional alien can ever truly be divorced from the human perspective, because it's a human imagining them. But I see some parallels to things like how social media is used in China. Constant sharing of your personal information as a matter of course makes anyone trying to conceal that information seem deviant and untrustworthy even if the information is in fact harmless, that's something we've seen happen with humans. I think the "we didn't make weapons" bit is the more alien thing, actually. Imagine a species that never went through generations of tribal conflict and warfare. It's like a whole civilization of bonobos. Bizarre.
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>>3595966
well, the thing is, the China thing is wholly artificial, and thus messes with and clashes with the human psyche in a very specific way, as we naturally ARE a species with mental isolation. the artificial enactments from stuff like the china system simply dont mesh well or clash well because of this.

but for the Hexxane, i cant even begin to think how that all works. it probably makes perfect sense to them to have no privacy, as you technically dont. its all based off naturally occurring and unavoidable reasons for them.

and yeah,though id imagine they did still have violence in their past, otherwise they wouldn't of even had such ideas around to work off of to make things like the contender. probably my own views making me biased here, but i personally feel their pacifism made them wholly unprepared to actually succeed in their plans for something like the crucible. when you arent used to violence, you dont know how to predict it or use it to your advantage. meanwhile to humans, even in the most peaceful of towns, with the most peaceful of people, most can agree there are certain situations that call for violence, even said situations are only ones where you are coming together as a group as a last resort, most still wont hesitate to say there can be reasons for it. even Buddhist monks say you cannot lie peacefully next to hungry dogs. its such a major difference in mentality thats implied to be there im surprised Mother isnt looking constantly disgusted at our species every time we see her. then again, i guess she would be the single one to understand us better, so...
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>>3596013
Yeah, I get you. A race evolving with that sort of constant shared information probably would develop different attitudes towards it than we have. Maybe we'll learn some more nuance to it from the journals, then.

And yeah, the Hexane were definitely unprepared for the Crucible. You don't send a people near incapable of betrayal and unfamiliar with violence into a Murder Death Kill. Especially when it's the entire population, not just a sub-set of a sub-set of the population like with Earth. It would have been incredibly traumatic to them, even more so than for humans. I wonder how many Hexane went crazy even before the Hunger got to them?
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>>3596056
well, going crazy also causes the hunger, but id imagine a fucking huge amount. just imagine, one second someone is genuinely, fully comforting you about your fears and worries about the coming crucible. then the crucible comes and you wake up to find that same person slaughtering people in their pods before they can even fight back, simply under the excuse "this has to happen, for the good of us all." its not even betrayal because both feelings could've been fully genuine, but it still more than most could probably handle.

also i just thought about the fact one of the Engines functions is fully fusing two Daughters, like implied mentally too. and they expected their species to be ok with this, from how it was described, not that be something outright forced on people. now THERE is a damn difference in mentality right fucking there. to me, that sounds worse than the corrupted engines mechanics, yet thats what the REGULAR engine does. fucking empaths, you freaks.
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>>3596096
I get the sense that the fusion function was probably meant to be a "look, we get that it's creepy, but it will end the Crucible faster and isn't that what we want?" situations. Like nobody was really excited about the idea, but they were all so wrapped up in the idea of winning the Crucible for the edification of the Hexane race that some people were willing to do it anyway.

...what if that's what the Twelve Ascendants were? Suppose my "each is a different class" theory is right, you could have them specialize in developing the abilities of that class and then fuse together into a single super-Hexane with twelve maxed-out Cores. And that's why Mother developed the Corrupted Engines, so she could use the Life Gem feature to gain their abilities without properly fusing with them, because she didn't want to sacrifice the individuality and privacy that we know she valued. And Charon got left out of that because they were a useful enough pawn that she could better use Charon alive as backup than as assimilation fodder.
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>>3596158
i can see it, hell i can see it going even further, and each Ascendant first fused with others with cores of their classes, or were supposed to, before they then further fused. would even in disturbing way be why the Crown works like it does. each Ascendant had a Crown, and was supposed to fill its slots out with Halos from those they fused with, before potentially there being a super device to put all 12 crowns into once the time was right. but there is one overlooked issue with what you said. Mother actually did care about Charon. like, implied she cared about them alot, and actually trusted them. hence why Charons betrayal hit her so hard. she didn't spare Charon because she was useful, but probably out of love. what form of love i couldn't tell you, but obviously at least strong friendship.
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>>3596182
>i can see it, hell i can see it going even further, and each Ascendant first fused with others with cores of their classes, or were supposed to, before they then further fused. would even in disturbing way be why the Crown works like it does. each Ascendant had a Crown, and was supposed to fill its slots out with Halos from those they fused with, before potentially there being a super device to put all 12 crowns into once the time was right.
Maybe. The description of the Crown makes it sound like it never got to that point, though. That they were supposed to disseminate the Halos, but that was a plan for a later time.

>Mother actually did care about Charon. like, implied she cared about them alot, and actually trusted them. hence why Charons betrayal hit her so hard. she didn't spare Charon because she was useful, but probably out of love. what form of love i couldn't tell you, but obviously at least strong friendship.
Given the parallels between Sam/B'Ni and Mother/Charon, it was probably both. Charon being a useful pawn and Mother having a twisted affection for them.
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>>3596204
i guess Mother is what happens when the Isabelle of the group wins.
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>>3596236
No, Mother's what happens when the Sam does. Much scarier thought. I really want to confront B'Ni with those parallels, though I'm not sure we'll get the chance to talk. It would be so satisfying.

>Pop quiz, B'Ni: Someone you've known for a long time has actually been a manipulative schemer grooming you as their puppet under the guise of you finally getting the love you're so desperate for. After years of this, you're so eager to finally get what you desire that when she asks you to retrieve a corpse for her you just do it, without asking any questions about what she has planned. This leads to horrible consequences for you. Now, am I talking about Sam or Mother?
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>>3596254
eh, im still of the opinion wasting anymore breath on Isabelle isnt worth it. she had her like, 3+ chances, she might aswell just be a wild animal at this point, and you dont talk to those when they cause trouble, you put them down.
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>>3596264
Oh, I'm not suggesting we give her another chance. I just want to make her realize how stupid she is, before we put her down. Just for a little schadenfreude after all the trouble she's caused us. But no, we're not realistically going to get the chance for that.
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>>3596278
so, how bad do you think its gonna be once we run into another group we have to actually fight, instead of just individuals? because boy, will that be a different ballpark than we are used to. but honestly i really wanna see it at least once, even if there are good In World reasons its so rare.
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>>3596254
>>3596278
>eh, im still of the opinion wasting anymore breath on Isabelle isnt worth it. she had her like, 3+ chances, she might aswell just be a wild animal at this point, and you dont talk to those when they cause trouble, you put them down.
>she might as well be a wild animal at this point.
Awfully cold of you lot. If Isabelle WAS a wild animal, then why hasn't she succumbed to the Hunger? I get that you're all for throwing your own rational brain out the window just to kill Isabelle and West any iteration of Dr. West on sight just to get your murderboner off, but goddamn it it's getting annoying. It might be me frequently leaving the vein to go to work on a daily basis as the cause of my emotional detachment and giving me a better sense of emotional clarity and stability, but would you two PLEASE listen to a devil's advocate?


I'm of the opinion that it's better for Isabelle to realize her own folly than simply have us kill her into submission without any character development. And for that, I need Isabelle alive to see the consequences of her "head in the sand" policy should it all blow up in her face.

Which segues into my other topic that I've been meaning to talk about.

Lets say we succeed in intercepting Isabelle and succeed in killing her before she revives Mother. We would be left with Isabelle's Corpse and the dream daughters trapped inside said corpse. Consume the Corpse, rescue Gina, Kosi, Meg, Eloise, and any other dream daughter trapped inside Isabelle. And then debate on whether or not to bring Isabelle into Shu's headcase where upon both of you would simply vote "leave Isabelle to rot and be lost forever". That's what I would say would be both of your opinionated "best case scenario".

Now let's say we succeed in intercepting Isabelle, succeed in killing Isabelle, but fail to stop Isabelle from reviving Mother's body. What then? do we retreat and lick our wounds? Do we stand our ground and attempt to destroy Mother's Vessel? Do we bring Isabelle's corpse back with us? If we do bring Isabelle's corpse with us on the retreat, consuming the corpse would raise the same voting issue of what to do with Isabelle's dream-self. And I think I know what both of you would vote without a second thought nor a willingness to heed the other side of the argument.

Now let's say we succeed in intercepting Isabelle, but fail in killing her and also fail to stop her from reviving Mother's body. When then? How do we approach the situation? If Mother decides to pull a "you have outlived your usefulness" on Isabelle as her first action, should we rescue Isabelle from death or do we coldly watch her die? And if we do rescue Isabelle, do we kill her or let her live and wallow in her self-realization of her own folly?
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>>3596408
With a group our size (Shu's family of 5) vs. another group of 4-5, it would be a fucking logistical nightmare on par to the voting sessions and planning against SPIRAL FEAR. Even moreso if it escalates. And don't get me started on the possibility that said enemy group has a hive mistress/Neuromancer Coordinator to give out silent orders to their comrades like we do. It just turns into AutoChess.
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>>3596420
>I'm of the opinion that it's better for Isabelle to realize her own folly than simply have us kill her into submission without any character development. And for that, I need Isabelle alive to see the consequences of her "head in the sand" policy should it all blow up in her face.
I disagree. We have given her chances to realize her folly. She has consistently refused to take them. At some point we just have to cut our losses. We can't keep trying to save someone who wants to kill us.

>And then debate on whether or not to bring Isabelle into Shu's headcase where upon both of you would simply vote "leave Isabelle to rot and be lost forever". That's what I would say would be both of your opinionated "best case scenario".
Agreed, yes. We can't bring her around, we can't leave her alive, her dying is the best case scenario for everyone except B'Ni. And her best case scenario is "everyone dies except me and a creepy sex doll I made in Sam's image", so I don't care if she gets her best case scenario.

>Now let's say we succeed in intercepting Isabelle, succeed in killing Isabelle, but fail to stop Isabelle from reviving Mother's body. What then? do we retreat and lick our wounds? Do we stand our ground and attempt to destroy Mother's Vessel? Do we bring Isabelle's corpse back with us? If we do bring Isabelle's corpse with us on the retreat, consuming the corpse would raise the same voting issue of what to do with Isabelle's dream-self. And I think I know what both of you would vote without a second thought nor a willingness to heed the other side of the argument.
That depends a lot on the circumstances. It's probably Mother possessing B'Ni, not Mother using B'Ni to revive her corpse. So it would be retrieving the Hexane corpse, in that case, since that would be the bit with B'Ni's mind state in it. If we can even get to it. But whether we consume it depends on if Gina and the Dream Daughters we like wound up in there along with B'Ni. We might need that intact to transfer them out. As for whether we stay and fight, I want to say yes, but it's entirely possible Mother Rabbit will be too strong for us to defeat. She's probably going to transfer her max level Skintalker Core in there along with her, somehow, so she's going to be buff as hell. Retreating is probably for the best.

>Now let's say we succeed in intercepting Isabelle, but fail in killing her and also fail to stop her from reviving Mother's body. When then? How do we approach the situation? If Mother decides to pull a "you have outlived your usefulness" on Isabelle as her first action, should we rescue Isabelle from death or do we coldly watch her die? And if we do rescue Isabelle, do we kill her or let her live and wallow in her self-realization of her own folly?
Let her die. She's not worth the effort to save.
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>>3596423
im not so sure on that. i think it could work, but i see the point in at least not doing it often, it would just be a shame to never see it at all.

>>3596420
>Awfully cold of you lot
hardly, and theres a damn line that has to be drawn at some point. she passed numerous of those drawn long ago.

>just to get your murderboner off, but goddamn it it's getting annoying.
well fuck you too. its got nothing to do with wanting to kill for the sake of killing, as far as im concerned its justified and vengeance, aswell as ending major threats not just to use, but countless innocent lives, of which both Isabelle and West are not.

>I'm of the opinion that it's better for Isabelle to realize her own folly than simply have us kill her into submission without any character development.
Its not. and she has had her character development, you just dont like it because its negative development. becoming a villain or more of a villain is and can be all the development someone ever has.

>last Part
the most likely scenario is Mother isnt being revived in the corpse, but going to take over Isabelles body. the evidence supports this action much more than any other scenario.

Isabelle is going away for good is the best case scenario, it would be idiotic to have her be in anyone's head, let alone does she deserve it.

if we fail to stop Isabelle and Mothers plan, there wont be an Isabelle to save anyways. possibly not Gina or the others too. well, i suppose its possible the process wont delete Isabelle, but basically push her back into being a Dream Daughter inside her own head, but she certainly wont be being rescued by us from that scenario.
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>>3596459
im thinking we stay and fight honestly. regardless of whos minds going into whos, if we dont stop them here, all thats gonna happen is they get stronger, and stronger, and stronger the longer we let them go, aswell as cause who knows what amount of suffering on others, and probably cause all sorts of other problems. our best chance regardless of what happens to stop them, is here.
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>>3596504
Yeah, we'll definitely try to fight. But I think we'll have to be prepared to run if things go badly. I don't think we're going to get another save from B'Ni (or her body, at least) brutalizing the party twice within as many days.
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>>3596513
fair point but id also be surprised if Mother lets us run. she might basically of been waiting for a chance to bash our heads in for awhile now. lets just aim for such a fight to not happen at all, even if we end up winning its gonna be a brutal one we do not want to take. if ever we claim a victory where we lose a party member, it would be such a fight, and im not talking being unable to save Gina either.
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>>3596459
>>3596463
>the most likely scenario is Mother isnt being revived in the corpse, but going to take over Isabelles body. the evidence supports this action much more than any other scenario.
>It's probably Mother possessing B'Ni, not Mother using B'Ni to revive her corpse.
So that's what Mother meant.... by "wonderful gift"
We deleted Isabelle's Core ability, leaving Isabelle's body basically an empty shell without a core. And with Isabelle at the point where she's blind to reason and betrayal, it's basically Mother's perfect vessel because a body without a core ability to attune to is a body that can attune to any new core ability installed in it. Mind swapping Isabelle's mind (and by extension Gina, Kosi, Meg, and Eloise) between her body and the Hexxane Corpse is the perfect way to get a completely new host body. One with a blank slate while leaving Isabelle and the dream daughters she hosted trapped in a Hexxane corpse left to rot.

That's Mother's plan, it all makes sense! Why else would she have Isabelle take a Mind Swap Relic and have her use it on a Corpse? A corpse can't fight back even after Isabelle realizes she's been betrayed.

...I apologize for being this blind.

I think Isabelle might be harmless at this point if we do consume her. She's without a core ability. Dream daughters usually can influence their hosts via their consumed ability. Isabelle's core ability was deleted so taking her dreamstate but not her ability (due to it being deleted) simply leaves her without a means to influence the host. I think.

But I'm more than certain that Isabelle will go mental and enter a bsod of despair after realizing even Mother has been using her like a tool if Isabelle (and Gina, and Kosi, and Meg, and Eloise) get shunted into the Hexxane Corpse.
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>>3596522
>>3596513
Gentlemen, in the possibility that Isabelle does manage to use the Mind Swap Relic on the Hexxane Corpse, I believe it would be prudent of us to retrieve the Hexxane Corpse out of the possibility that Gina, Kosi, Meg, and Eloise also get booted into the Corpse during the Mind Swap.
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>>3596543
>>3596551
actually, isnt it just a mind TRANSFER relic?(just looked it up, it is a Mind Transfer Relic) it could very easily be she doesn't have to swap minds, only enter hers into Isabelle, and due to Isabelle having no core a loophole would make Mother and her core becomes the dominant one. just saying Transfer is much different than swap, and unlike swap means you dont have to get rid of the old one.

but i mean, yes, whatever steps we can or need to take to save Gina, Kosi, Meg, and Eloise we should try to take. dear god its gonna suck if my suspicions are right and they get stuck with Mother.
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>>3596543
>We deleted Isabelle's Core ability, leaving Isabelle's body basically an empty shell without a core
It's either that, or just B'Ni being a perfect patsy to convince to do this. The machine can probably swap Cores along with bodies, honestly, I'd be surprised if it needs an empty vessel for Mother to bring her powers along with her. But I'm sure it helps, yes.

>That's Mother's plan, it all makes sense! Why else would she have Isabelle take a Mind Swap Relic and have her use it on a Corpse? A corpse can't fight back even after Isabelle realizes she's been betrayed.
Exactly. Plus, a corpse probably counts as part of the Fleshscape that Mother can manipulate. Especially if this is her corpse.

>...I apologize for being this blind.
No worries.

>I think Isabelle might be harmless at this point if we do consume her. She's without a core ability. Dream daughters usually can influence their hosts via their consumed ability. Isabelle's core ability was deleted so taking her dreamstate but not her ability (due to it being deleted) simply leaves her without a means to influence the host. I think.
Maybe. But she'd still be a presence in our minds, and I think a lot of us don't want that.

>But I'm more than certain that Isabelle will go mental and enter a bsod of despair after realizing even Mother has been using her like a tool if Isabelle (and Gina, and Kosi, and Meg, and Eloise) get shunted into the Hexxane Corpse.
Yeah, probably. "How did you not see the parallels, B'Ni. She was asking you to retrieve a corpse!"

>>3596568
>but i mean, yes, whatever steps we can or need to take to save Gina, Kosi, Meg, and Eloise we should try to take. dear god its gonna suck if my suspicions are right and they get stuck with Mother.
Yeah, that's something I'm frightened of happening, too. I don't want our princess to be in a much more heavily guarded castle. Because it would take so much longer to resolve this plot thread, if that was the case, I want Gina back as soon as possible.

You know, a thought just occurred to me that Mother might not actually be planning on possessing B'Ni. Sparagmos Engines can restore any Daughter in the user's dreamscape. Mother would know where all the Engines are. What if she's planning on having B'Ni carry her mindstate to an Engine so she can be reborn fully? And if she does control B'Ni, it would be only for a limited time, before she returns to the flesh completely? Would not be surprised if that's step two of the plan.
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>>3596583
>You know, a thought just occurred to me that Mother might not actually be planning on possessing B'Ni. Sparagmos Engines can restore any Daughter in the user's dreamscape. Mother would know where all the Engines are. What if she's planning on having B'Ni carry her mindstate to an Engine so she can be reborn fully? And if she does control B'Ni, it would be only for a limited time, before she returns to the flesh completely? Would not be surprised if that's step two of the plan.

my only issue with that is, she wouldn't need to lie to Isabelle then, if Isabelle was gonna do that willingly. if she does hijack Isabelles mind, it feels like it would be better to just work off of that, than go and find an engine. i mean, shes got the corpse right there to consume to up Isabelles anty, as it was. i suppose if she is in control she could revive herself with Isabelle dumping literally everything into her, but it still seems odd she would have to trick Isabelle into reviving her. in Isabelles current stat it just feels like she could easily convince her to trust her as an ally on that, especially if she already convinced her to do this much.

but its not impossible an engine is in her goal. would still have to hitch a ride inside Isabelle to do though, so if that happens Gina and crew are not in for a good time.
>mfw it is that
>mfw Mother is actually pretty chill and doesn't mess with them, cause in her eyes its not worth the hassle.
>"SO....GINA WAS IT...SHALL WE...PLAY A ROUND OF ONE OF YOUR MANY HUMAN CARD GAMES TO PASS THE TIME? WHATEVER OUR DIFFERENCES, OUR FATES ARE NO LONGER IN OUR HANDS FROM WITHIN HERE, AND WITH THE TIME DIFFERENCE, IT WILL BE A VERY LONG TIME FOR US TIL THIS IS FINISHED."
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>>3596604
Nah, I mean that this is a transitional phase. Mother is going to do the standard villain escalation trope where she has multiple stages. So you'll have Mother-possessed B'Ni as the first stage, then later you get Resurrected Mother, and then finally she'll...I don't know, eat West or something and become a giant monster before condensing it back down to a Hexanoid form via Vitruvian power as she crosses the bishonen line.
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>>3596629
yeah id rather avoid that. Wests already got that kinda going on, we dont need two of those. and on top of that you just know at least one more major villains gonna pop up before this is done, with all the hints about foreign daughters and their power levels. i guess it does fit Mothers themes though to be trying to steal the spotlight from others of her ilk.
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>>3596568
Hmm....If there's anything that we can do about
We have several ways to either stall it out longer or attempt to stop Mother's Win Conditions (getting Isabelle to the Hexane Corpse, having the Mind Transfer Relic in hand)
>it while Shu and the majority of the party are stuck with Phalanx in an underground bunker, We could have Dorian do a run-by and steal the Mind Transfer Relic. He should have the speed to go toe to toe in racing Isabelle with Cursus Alas's booster abilities, and Sui Tormentis's Stat Boosts. If Dorian does successfully steal the Relic, have him lead Isabelle on a wild goose chase.
If that doesn't work, then
>Dorian should race ahead of Isabelle and get to the Tomb First, there he should plant the teleport beacon and call in Shu's party. Shu's party will then break into the tomb and desecrate the corpse by either destroying it or consuming it to prevent one of Mother's Key win condition.
>>3596583
>You know, a thought just occurred to me that Mother might not actually be planning on possessing B'Ni. Sparagmos Engines can restore any Daughter in the user's dreamscape. Mother would know where all the Engines are. What if she's planning on having B'Ni carry her mindstate to an Engine so she can be reborn fully? And if she does control B'Ni, it would be only for a limited time, before she returns to the flesh completely? Would not be surprised if that's step two of the plan.
So you're saying that Mother's planning on having Isabelle transfer Mother's mindstate to an engine and then have her spend her levels to revive Mother using the RESTORE function? I guess that would explain the Mind Transfer. And the Corpse. The Corpse would make the Restore function easier.
And it would have to be an uncorrupted Engine. A purified one. A corrupted Engine would go against Mother's plan because she doesn't want to gamble with the glitchy error of a corrupted engine. We know the locations of at least 2 Purified engines. One is in our home. The another is guarded by a good doggo bound by Mother's Contract that stays in effect as long as Mother exists. But those are East of the River. We are west of the River.
>>3596604
Talking about the possibilities makes me antsy because
>A) it paints a grim picture because we were late to figuring out the plot as we could've stopped the plan in its tracks had we not seen Hatter's Evil and caused a nearly lethal misunderstanding with Lara.
>B) Bhop is certainly watching us write this all out for him and taking notes for how to play out the next vein.
and
>C) Given the work schedule that I've been handed out this week, I'll be missing out on the important bits (read. the afternoon updates) since it feels like the three of us together have a certain balance of the humors when it comes to ideas, debating and planning, me being absent makes me very very nervous.
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>>3596629
Well, if we're going by your idea of the transitional stage, then we've already failed to thwart stage one (Isabelle grabbing the Mind transfer Relic), and the consequences for failing to thwart Stage Two (Isabelle getting Mind-jacked by Mother) is even worse because we already have a clue of what Mother is very capable of (she won the last Crucible as one of the Crucible's most fragile core classes stat-wise).
>>3596638
>Foreign Daughters
>Resurrected Mother
>Jellyfish West
>Mara the Dragon desperately trying to stall out the Crucible against all of those antagonistic elements.
Fucker Mother, the stakes keep getting higher and higher the farther we zoom out looking at the big picture. If anything we should really start getting stronger, and strong enough to a point where we can stand by Mara as equals in order to fight them all off.
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>>3596646
im thinking Mother would go to an Engine we dont know about, if that is her plan. im also not sure if Dorian could even do that. at the very lest id want him to toss down the spoke so if his thievery does not work, we are at least there instantly to back him up.

>Talking about the possibilities makes me antsy
oh no, this is a nerve wracking situation for sure. sucks you're gonna be so busy, hope you still find some time to participate. and as for the Hatter and Lara, it does suck, but i dont regret either. i mean, sucks what happened to Lara but we reacted as we should've, in my opinion. same with the Hatter.

>>3596652
thats a big damn order to fill though Anon. but you are right, we probably cant just march towards the Cord and hope to be strong enough by the time we get there. i mean damn, West has gotta be damn strong and she still isnt ready. we probably out of necessity will have to find more side hunts and things to do.
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>>3596666
checked your quads, and they speak truth. The fact that we we came an hour late feels like we're already too late to stop Isabelle from succeeding, but Mother breaking the rules to stall us makes it feel oppressive. And I don't think we'll have the same dice luck as Kosi did when she went all out trying to hold off Mara's raiding party while on death's door.
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>>3596699
and nice doubles to you.
oh no, i never trust the dice. never. my luck is so bad its a running joke with my friends.
but what anyone can do is plan and do their best to negate much of lucks stranglehold on a situation. as for Mother, if we were already too late to stop her, she wouldn't be doing this at all. the fact she thinks she needs to stop us means we still can stop her. its probably a pretty tight time-frame ill give you that though, but unlike so, so damn many times...its a chance, and a chance for us to not have arrived too late for once. and were gonna damn well do our best to make it count.
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>>3596666
My plan is to have Julia eat the Relics, once we teleport her over. Hungering Membrane plus Artisanal Appetites means she can dissolve them with a touch. I think that BHOP may have designed this encounter with our new abilities in mind, honestly. Trap us in a confined space, well Shu just happens to have recently gotten a drill power. Give us a target to chase down, good thing that Dorian's gotten these speed-focused abilities. Need to deny the enemy use of a Relic, well look at that Julia can eat Relics by touching them now. We're still going to have a hard time of it, I'm sure, this isn't a cutscene fight. But it definitely feels to me like there's some intent to give us an excuse to play with our new toys.

What sort of resistance are we expecting from B'Ni, anyway? Assuming that she has gotten some level-ups since we saw her. Her blades should be sharper and her movements faster, that's a given. Calcite Greaves and Dogged Sprinter are obvious upgrade points. How do you think Resentiment's Mirror and Neurocloud have leveled, though?
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>>3596719
not a bad plan. i can see where your logic's coming from there. theres also the fact were in a no nonsense end this quickly situation, and we have something like Novembers Autumn Protocol.

>What sort of resistance are we expecting from B'Ni, anyway?
both Greave and Sprinter were leveling up in a very straight forward way, so i dont expect anything majorly out of the blue from them, more speed from Doggo, more crit from Greaves, but nothing we cant predict. at worst the Greaves could not be kicked off as projectiles, but wouldn't be the hardest thing to counteract or the biggest surprise.

the cloud honestly will probably be mostly non-combat focused. it also seems it might not BE the cloud, but another Neuromantic ability, thats more passive. but in close range combat at worst it will mean we cant see her via Halo senses, but we dont really need or use that heavily in combat anyways.

Mirror is the big iffy girl in the room though yeah. the good news is, its focused on a smaller, more elite set of clones, rather than Amaras weak multitude. it probably never outright stops stealing stats from the main body either, nor stops sharing the pools(meaning we can fully take her down from any clone), it imagine she can probably cut herself down into more than just two chunks, and probably less limitations on stopping her Regen and passives like before, so its more like each one will probably or could have her full arsenal now. the main issue this will cause is her trying to use this to slip past us, or hide the Relic from us. so we need to figure out a good way to keep her confined to a location even if she splits apart, and to figure out which one has the relics on them.
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>>3596719
Neurocloud's concealment abilities would give her a better reflex save as it her speed oriented kit synergize with her to give her tangible after-images created from her speed. that combined with her speed and skates, she's a walking blender that works with multiple skaters instead of blood.
That and the fact that she can spawn clones that can confuse and confound enemies into trying to play asteroids with an asteroids monster in finding the right core. And she can easily stealth escape from the confusion too. But since she still has Font of Suffering, she can't maintain it during combat.
Her Core's been deleted so any bio regen that was capped and diverted from her core ability will be unlocked. So expect isabelle to have a balanced set of health regen AND bio regen instead of non-existent bio regen and a monstrous health regen.
We can't expect inside help from the daughters Isabelle has consumed without massive risk because 99% of them have turned into zombies due to Secluded Mind. And we can't risk locking down Isabelle's abilities because Neuromancy lvl 4 randomly locks down an ability out of a set.
>We're still going to have a hard time of it, I'm sure, this isn't a cutscene fight. But it definitely feels to me like there's some intent to give us an excuse to play with our new toys.
We haven't even had Rath out yet.
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>>3596744
I asked BHOP about an idea I had for keeping her from slipping past us with a clone that I think might work: Invisible Queen Crimson. We're planning on bringing a lot of Amara clones with us, right? And they'll all be invisible thanks to the real one wearing the Shawl. And Queen Crimson redirects every projectile attack that lands near the user back at the originator. Distribute a bunch of Amaras throughout the area, any clone-fragments that B'Ni tosses out will get thrown right back at her before they can grow into clones. BHOP said that the pieces of flesh B'Ni detaches would count as projectiles.

I'm worried about the neuromantic defenses, though. I think that >>3596745 probably has the right of it and it'll be some misleading ability. Get in close with her and she'd be able to make after-images and play with sense of distance to assist in dodging. That's going to be the tricky part. I'd propose making Chitinous Stalwarts for everyone but Dorian (he already has Neuromancy resistance), but I think the platelings would get in the way of Rath's fire or Julia's skin contact.

>>3596745
>We haven't even had Rath out yet.
That's what the fight with B'Ni is for. Rath can show off her new tricks by using Ignition to cauterize B'Ni's wounds and keep them from regenerating.
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>>3596745
>>3596758
i dont think her clone ability will do that, unless she hybridized it with Dogged sprinter. remember, its that ones girls Core, and we saw the path it takes, which is one where she basically just rips off chunks of her skill set to act as individual chunks. the clones even rarely had the same ability, implying more likely it will go down a line where she can give up abilities on herself to empower them on a clone. nothing about it would allow for any of that unless she hybridized it into something else. i also dont think Dogged Sprinter would giver her that on its own, from the way it was going, we can expect sonic booms disrupting our concentration or knocking us down when she passes from the direction it was going.

she also still cant keep up neuromancy if her regen activates, so im very positive she wont be relying on neuromantic tricks, as she was never one to fight expecting to never get hurt, and she without a doubt wont be and will know she isnt strong enough after this to expect not to get hurt now.
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>>3596775
>i dont think her clone ability will do that, unless she hybridized it with Dogged sprinter. remember, its that ones girls Core, and we saw the path it takes, which is one where she basically just rips off chunks of her skill set to act as individual chunks. the clones even rarely had the same ability, implying more likely it will go down a line where she can give up abilities on herself to empower them on a clone. nothing about it would allow for any of that unless she hybridized it into something else. i also dont think Dogged Sprinter would giver her that on its own, from the way it was going, we can expect sonic booms disrupting our concentration or knocking us down when she passes from the direction it was going.
Sorry, let me clarify, I'm talking about the neurocloud. Not solid clones, but able to appear as if they are because she's got after-images in the cloud. After-images with mass are way higher up on the tree, she needs Generator powers for that. Have to get really hot for the after-images to have mass. That's just a Gundam reference, I'm not saying that in seriousness.


>she also still cant keep up neuromancy if her regen activates, so im very positive she wont be relying on neuromantic tricks, as she was never one to fight expecting to never get hurt, and she without a doubt wont be and will know she isnt strong enough after this to expect not to get hurt now.
She can't maintain concentration effects. The neurocloud might be a mostly-passive thing. Spew out a cloud, have it mess with the heads of people who enter it in ways not under her control but that still benefit her.
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>>3596744
Aside from leaving Tangible After-images the Neuromantic Cloud would be Isabelle's "Smokebomb escape" It's perfect for Isabelle. Conjure up the cloud, split into clones, have the clone with less and health Bio stay in the cloud while the rest make a break for the tomb. It'll last until the end of the round, but it's all Isabelle needs.
That's Isabelle's counterplay, and it's a fairly tough counterplay for us to play against. of all the characters in our party, Dorian is the only one who can match Isabelle's speed and possibly outpace her.

As for the Cloud Concealment, we COULD have Amara stay and make a ton of clones to widen the search area, Amara has Predator's Instinct (cat ears and a sensitive nose) and her Halo can pierce through TWO layers of concealment material.

If we're going to fight Isabelle if we manage to intercept her, we should fight her with our minimum win condition being (Successfully Destroy the Mind Transfer Relic).
with our party line-up as (Shu, Dorian, Julia, Amara), we exploit Amara's Joyous Many clones and sensory array to track down Isabelle's core and the Relic, utilize Dorian's Insane Speed to intercept the Real Isabelle or to steal the Mind Transfer relic, and use Dorian and Julia's Dual techniques to the fullest (Horror at Redhook and Stormfront Waltz)
Rath is in my perspective "the Nuclear Option", for when Isabelle gets overriden by Mother. Her kit doesn't really play well with anyone except those who have fire/heat resistance (The only people with said resistances so far is Shu and November) and her playstyle is geared more towards kill it dead with brute force rather than the precise destruction we're trying to pull on Isabelle (aka stealing and destroying the Relic) after Isolating her her real self and the relic from her clones.
>>3596758
You don't really need Chitinous Stalwarts, you just need to filter out the after-images through the sensory network. Just give everyone Plateling Helmets, the Neuromancy resist filter out visual Neuromantic effects to a degree. I to have to warn you, the Neuromantic resist effect is Indiscriminate. So we'll have to bypass it somehow if we're going to use Neuromancy of our own while having those helmets equipped.
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>>3596787
>Hybridizing Sprinter and Calcite Greaves to get Marrow Hound
>When we already declined such an ability before.
If Isabelle's going to hybridize those two abilities to create Marrow Hound, then she would have to spend at least 8-10 points pumping both of them up to lvl 10 and saying yes to hybridizing. If Hatter's lvl up feast was of any indication as a mid-tier average dughter's offered level up points (lets say 16 is the average), Isabelle might have 4-7 levels left over to put points into Neurocloud.
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>>3596788
>use Dorian and Julia's Dual techniques to the fullest (Horror at Redhook and Stormfront Waltz)
Horror at Red Hook could help a lot. Lock B'Ni in a blood cloud so that she can't separate out any clones, let Julia get to town laying stacks on B'Ni. Even if B'Ni did have any clones out, Red Hook disrupts mental communication. Does that apply to the link between multiple bodies? Might slow the clones down.
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>>3596787
>>3596788
im just saying i cant see it being the neurocloud, otherwise we would've seen it when she used it to sneak up on us. it seems to be a different power, probably the one that allowed West Gamma to always sneak up on her, even before she consumed the poor saps in the forest. might be a two-part Neuromancer ability like we kinda have seen. one hand lets her avoid being tracked, the other lets her track well, hence West always finding her aswell.

that, and
>While you are unable to maintain Neuromantic concentration past the end of your turn if your regeneration triggers
is less about passives or actives, and more anything she has to control. even an toggle-able cloud could be argued to be a concentration effect, as she has to keep it running. if nothing else, i feel like the fact its not specifically saying active and passive abilities is meant to mean something. BHOP sometimes gets sleep deprived but he still chooses his wording and when to include and not include game mechanic words carefully.
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>>3596788
also im still thinking Amara is not best for this. Dorian, Julia, and Rath will serve us better. the clone are simply too weak, and putting Amara Prime in the line of fire will backfire on us horribly, i guarantee it.
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>>3596805
Fair point on us having seen dissipating mist if it was the cloud, but she might have left it behind and then just gotten ahead of us via speed. She is quite fast. Still, you're right, we can't rely on the assumption it will be the cloud. She might have something else, that's true. Honestly, I hope it's just an anti-tracking power, would be easier to deal with.

>is less about passives or actives, and more anything she has to control. even an toggle-able cloud could be argued to be a concentration effect, as she has to keep it running. if nothing else, i feel like the fact its not specifically saying active and passive abilities is meant to mean something. BHOP sometimes gets sleep deprived but he still chooses his wording and when to include and not include game mechanic words carefully.
Nah, we've seen the difference between concentration effects and other abilities before. Concentration requires constant focus, other abilities are more instinctive. Like, the Ravenous Maw isn't a concentration effect even though it's something Shu has to activate and control, because it comes with its own set of instincts to manipulate it with. But Gina terraforming or locking down an ability is a concentration effect, because she has to remain focusing on that.
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>>3596809
>>3596788
the other thing is we cant even rely on being able to switch our party out once, and certainly not twice. if we fail, were gonna need Raths strength against whatever this creates, but we cant rely on being able to call her in if we do fail to stop this.

she also have a far from bad kit for dealing with Isabelle. hell, unlike Julia, especially if we gave Rath the Sui Tormentis, she might force Isabelle to make fewer clones. Rath can already take Isabelle on via damage output, but cutting her Bio and in half into clones? shes fast, but with Tensile, homing Boils, and Sui or Cursus upgrades, she cant keep away from her id very much say, and if she is caught Raths going to be something i honestly do not think Isabelle can deal with.

Meanwhile Isabelle is gonna kill any clone of Amaras she finds, Queen or not, basically instantly, and only has to get lucky once to end Amara Prime, or at least end her stealth, which would throw alot of any use for having her into chaos. the simple fact is, even with the shawl, Amara Prime has to be watched, and we cannot afford that in this fight.

also, thinking about it her Guardian FuzzBuzz does not mesh well with the Shawl at all. theres no way that thing can fit under it with her, but for it to do its job it would have to be a beacon saying where she is. and if its not near her then its kinda useless.
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>>3596831
>she also have a far from bad kit for dealing with Isabelle. hell, unlike Julia, especially if we gave Rath the Sui Tormentis, she might force Isabelle to make fewer clones. Rath can already take Isabelle on via damage output, but cutting her Bio and in half into clones? shes fast, but with Tensile, homing Boils, and Sui or Cursus upgrades, she cant keep away from her id very much say, and if she is caught Raths going to be something i honestly do not think Isabelle can deal with.
We don't have time for Dorian to take the suit off and Rath to put it on. She'll just have to rely on her already quite sizable damage output. Maybe just turn on Ignition and stick around B'Ni, burn away any clone fragment before it can regrow.

>Meanwhile Isabelle is gonna kill any clone of Amaras she finds, Queen or not, basically instantly, and only has to get lucky once to end Amara Prime, or at least end her stealth, which would throw alot of any use for having her into chaos. the simple fact is, even with the shawl, Amara Prime has to be watched, and we cannot afford that in this fight.
The Joyous Many have unlimited range and can spawn more of themselves. I want to leave Amara back at the Dragon's Lair and have her direct the Many from safety. B'Ni will never even get close to hurting the Prime.

>also, thinking about it her Guardian FuzzBuzz does not mesh well with the Shawl at all. theres no way that thing can fit under it with her, but for it to do its job it would have to be a beacon saying where she is. and if its not near her then its kinda useless.
Isn't he Subversive modded? He should have stealth of his own. If not, then we need to mod him some more. Maybe make a Relic that lets a construct take advantage of any modifiers the bonded Daughter would give to her own constructs, so that FuzzBuzz can tap into the shared stealth just like the Many do.
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>>3596843
nope, he is just a Tripled Knighted-Nomling with the buffs and debatable negatives from the Heart. i suppose we could slap some chitinous armor on him, but thats a temporary measure. but if we have Prime back at the base like we both seem to agree on, he will be there too so it wont matter at the moment. to be fair though, hes gotta be a terrifying thing to face...if he wasn't basically actually a gigantic cute fuzzball, but that might actually be even more terrifying.

...why DIDN'T we make him subversive? the only reasons i can think is we were worried about the cost, and i dont think we found out the Midnight Crew was eating a good bit of the costs for us til after the fact.

>We don't have time for Dorian to take the suit off
fair point, though like you said i think Rath can stand on her own without it, just a shame as i still think it suits her alot better.

>The Joyous Many have unlimited range and can spawn more of themselves.
not if they're dead and die before they can, which if Isabelle finds them is very likely. they also have no Regen and extremely limited pools, so they very much run the risk of running themselves too dry to spawn a replacement. i get what your saying i just dont think its a foolproof plan to think we could never run out of them.
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>>3596850
>>3596843
>look at clock
>4am
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>>3596853
yeah, for once im starting to feel the time myself. ill await your responses in the morn, sleep tight, dont let the fleshscape bite.
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>>3596850
> not if they're dead and die before they can, which if Isabelle finds them is very likely. they also have no Regen and extremely limited pools, so they very much run the risk of running themselves too dry to spawn a replacement. i get what your saying i just dont think its a foolproof plan to think we could never run out of them.
Oh, I'm sure she'll have an easy time finding them. Because I plan on making so many she can barely move. Exponential doubling, I will bury her under a tide of Amaras. Just have each new generation use their first action to create another generation twice as large before they activate Queen Crimson. Get a few turns of growth uninterrupted and they'll be spawning faster than she can kill them. If the fight lasts long enough then I am going to propose that we literally bury her under the Amaras, I don't think That Hideous Strength will be enough at its current level to let her shrug off several thousand seven year-olds dogpiling her with their flagella.

>>3596853
I'm feeling kind of insomniac tonight. Side effects of spending most of yesterday and today sleeping off a cold, my circadian rhythms are all off. But yeah, I should try to get some sleep.
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>>3596865
And then all of those 7-year olds dogpiling Isabelle sneeze. all at once.
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>>3596850
Hopefully we can use the Reinforce feature from a tier 3 Forge to give FuzzBuzz that extra 30% bio feature that makes him a STEALTH bee.
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>>3596865
theres gotta be some limit to that. thats personally just unfun levels of broken. but then again im not seeing anything saying theres a limit to how many clones she can spawn at once, and thus her clones either. so each clone could run themselves dry making 6 new ones a turn and killing themselves in the process. that really is utterly stupid.

the only issues i can see however are that the Clones are not yet fully autonomous, just incredibly smart, but they still do have limits on their ability to think themselves. on top of that, we still do not know if Amara Prime can mentally send new orders to her clones, only that she can receive information from them freely. i guess it is kinda implied too but im just looking for this things damn limits honestly.

>>3597042
we'll have to see.
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>>3596420
You're not the only one that wants Isabelle to understand her mistakes. I'm also for bringing her into Shu's head eventually - when death frees her from maxed out mental corruption and she's realized her folly, I could, very tentatively, see her being redeemable. Not consuming her would be more vindictive than I see Shu being. (Also, I kind of want Isabelle to finally get to take her anger out on actual Sam.)

>>3596788
Rath is less nuclear against Isabelle because of the split health pool so she can go all out against one body without accidentally killing Isabelle (and thus Gina & co) outright.

Agree with y'all that Shu, Rath, Dorian, Julia and a heckload of Amara clones is the way to go.

>>3596865
>>3597140
Given that BHOP still hasn't indicated any sort of limit on Joyous Many, I can only assume that there is some terrible, hidden drawback that only becomes relevant if it's abused. Like over a certain population threshold all the clones break free and turn evil or something. Or the sensory overload from seeing through a hundred clones puts Amara into a coma.
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>>3600469
>Not consuming her would be more vindictive than I see Shu being. (Also, I kind of want Isabelle to finally get to take her anger out on actual Sam.)
If you absolutely have to preserve B'Ni on the off chance she can be redeemed, it should not be Shu who consumes her. It is insane to put the violent stalker inside Shu's brain, I don't care how converting to a Dream Daughter might change her. That is an unreliable transition that we can not trust to make everything better. Put her in someone else's head, if we must. Think of it like B'Ni having a restraining order on her while she attends therapy.

>Rath is less nuclear against Isabelle because of the split health pool so she can go all out against one body without accidentally killing Isabelle (and thus Gina & co) outright.
Unless B'Ni has upgraded Resentiment's Mirror up to a much higher level, they probably still share health pools, actually. Rath going all out on one of them could kill all of them. Its possible the pools are split, but we can't rely on that.

>Given that BHOP still hasn't indicated any sort of limit on Joyous Many, I can only assume that there is some terrible, hidden drawback that only becomes relevant if it's abused.
Based on BHOP's reaction to my pointing out the exponential doubling, I think he actually just didn't realize how the math checked out. But yeah, that might be something patched in to balance it. So fine, let's not make a billion Amaras. We should make many, though, and try to fence B'Ni in with them.
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>>3600641
>It is insane to put the violent stalker inside Shu's brain
I see where you're coming from, I just don't see her being particularly dangerous once consumed. Hell, the only reason she's dangerous now is because Mother's helping her. I wouldn't mind putting her somewhere else for safety reasons though, can't be too careful!

>they probably still share health pools, actually
Oh, I totally misremembered. Maybe it's for the best that we won't have time to put Sui on her then.

>We should make many, though, and try to fence B'Ni in with them.
Absolutely - your plan has my full support. Let's not go crazy and make a fleshstar though.

Can't wait for the next Vein to drop.
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>>3600700
>>3600641
The real question to the Isabelle dream state is this: who's willing to take her in?

It's getting late in the day, and Bhop's gonna cut open the next vein in about 12 hours.
We should rest up and get some early sleep, because by Bhop's quill the next vein is a fucking doozy.

We're essentially doing a combination of:
>Catching Isabelle
>Destroying Stealing Isabelle's Relic
>Breaking into a Hexxane Tomb to desecrate/steal the corpse of a god.
>All the while dodging Mother's attempts to stall us out.

We're basically trying to stop a ritual gives a dark god a vessel to walk the earth.
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>>3600700
>I see where you're coming from, I just don't see her being particularly dangerous once consumed. Hell, the only reason she's dangerous now is because Mother's helping her. I wouldn't mind putting her somewhere else for safety reasons though, can't be too careful!
It's less that she's going to be dangerous and more that it would be deeply emotionally unhealthy to have her in such close proximity to Shu. That's not going to help anyone.

>Oh, I totally misremembered. Maybe it's for the best that we won't have time to put Sui on her then.
Unless B'Ni got some major upgrades in the past few days, a Sui-wearing Rath absolutely could one-shot B'Ni. Heck, even with the upgrades it's probably possible, Rath as she was during their fight would have killed B'Ni with that final blow if it wasn't for spending her Bio on stabilizing the rest of the party. That took her too low to use Herculean Force. Throw on Rath's upgrades and I think she could easily vaporize B'Ni.

>>3600730
>The real question to the Isabelle dream state is this: who's willing to take her in?
No one, really. That is the problem, B'Ni has burned all her bridges. It would have to be someone unconnected to that drama to take her in.

>We should rest up and get some early sleep, because by Bhop's quill the next vein is a fucking doozy.
True. Want to go over the plan one last time before we sleep, though?

Okay, so if I'm recalling correctly, it's:
>Send Grapplings to pin down the Phalanx's limbs with Hundred-Hands.
>Slip a Subversive Jackling in among them to paralyze the Phalanx at an opportune moment
>Quinn and Keane use their own constructs to join in the mess.
>November starts charging Autumn Protocol
>Convert Dorian's Bishop to a Bishop Jackling, hand him two spokes of Escher's Gear.
>Have Jackie enhance Heaven's Drill, start drilling into the tunnel barrier.
>One of the Amaras casts a spell (can't remember which, we've got it written down somewhere here) to assist in clearing the obstruction
>Other Amaras cast spells to impede Phalanx's movement
>As November is ready to fire, paralyze the Phalanx
>November blasts Phalanx
>Ace moves in to deliver execution blow with ax.
>Hole opens enough for Dorian to get out. Last Amara boosts him with a spell, he dumps tons of Health into Sui Tormentis, goes rocketing out.
>Dorian plants spoke outside, we teleport out, then goes zooming after B'Ni (spending his full Regen on Sui Tormentis every turn), following her tracks and guided by Amara's information relayed to him by Shu through the Jackling.
>We teleport back to Lair, drop off Amara Prime and November, grab Rath and Julia, get back to outside bunker.
>Whole party and Midnight crew start making fast but ramshackle vehicle in case Dorian is intercepted and we need to manually catch up and recover him.
>>
>>3600799
If we have Amara prime with us right now, I'd say we should speed eat Phalanx, get Amara some levels (at least 3 points into Joyous Many) and give the injured a full restore by consuming the corpse. It'll be a waste of levels if we don't consume it. Alternatively, we send it back home for storage or save it by keeping it with us on the go as fast food meals.

Also, we should have Dorian return Gina's Smartphone to Shu.

Also I have a horrible feeling regarding November's Autumn Protocol firing on phalanx. (Phalanx might have a special trick up its sleeve that allows it to reflect energy projectiles through a special configuration with its statues. I just hope it doesn't come to that.)
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>>3600799
Why are we teleporting out and then immediately teleporting to the Lair? Let's just go straight to the Lair after Dorian is out and November has used Autumn Protocol, then back to outside the Armory.

Depending on how dead Phalanx is after Autumn and Ace axeing, Amara might want stick around for a little while to grab the new words.
>If Phalanx is dead, consume then teleport to Lair
>If Phalanx yet lives, teleport to Lair, teleport back to outside Armory.
>If Phalanx pursues, kill it with Rath and Julia's help, then teleport it to Lair for later consumption.
>If Phalanx is stuck in the Armory, ignore it for now and get on with building the backup vehicle

Otherwise this seems like a solid plan.
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>>3600849
>Amara might want stick around for a little while to grab the new words.
We don't necessarily have to. We had Dorian and Amara use Gina's Smartphone camera to document, catalogue and take pictures of everything in the memorial room. Statues, plaques, wall murals, everything in the Memorial and conference room so nothing will be lost. The Lexicon word runes are likely on the placards that describe the statues.

Bhop's quote: >>3588237
(Dorian and Amara had time to catalogue the entire room, so no worries about losing any information on them. Well done, I must say)
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>>3600833
>If we have Amara prime with us right now, I'd say we should speed eat Phalanx, get Amara some levels (at least 3 points into Joyous Many) and give the injured a full restore by consuming the corpse. It'll be a waste of levels if we don't consume it. Alternatively, we send it back home for storage or save it by keeping it with us on the go as fast food meals.
I believe the worry was that we wouldn't have time to do that, and it would just be a distraction, but maybe. If it looks like we have the time, we'll grab the corpse.

>Also, we should have Dorian return Gina's Smartphone to Shu.
Definitely have Dorian return the phone, yes.

>Also I have a horrible feeling regarding November's Autumn Protocol firing on phalanx. (Phalanx might have a special trick up its sleeve that allows it to reflect energy projectiles through a special configuration with its statues. I just hope it doesn't come to that.)
I doubt the statues are that durable. They're already cracked and broken just for the Phalanx to be able to puppet them. But it trying to block or dodge shouldn't be an issue anyways, that's what paralyzing the Phalanx is for.

>>3600849
Mostly I wanted to guarantee that Dorian was out, get eyes on him heading away, but I can understand why jumping back to the lair then to the outside of the bunker might be more efficient.
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>>3600469
>You're not the only one that wants Isabelle to understand her mistakes. I'm also for bringing her into Shu's head eventually - when death frees her from maxed out mental corruption and she's realized her folly, I could, very tentatively, see her being redeemable. Not consuming her would be more vindictive than I see Shu being.
no. first off, you're just straight up wrong. she was utterly insane beyond redemption before the crucible even started. she fucking HID WHAT SHE THOUGHT WAS A MURDER THEN KILLED SOMEONE. as far as im concerned, shes beyond redemption and after what she has done, i absolutely believe Shu can and has every logical reason to not keep her around. if we wouldn't keep the hatter around, we wouldn't keep Isabelle around. plus as Another Anon said it would be insane to put her in Shus head.

>Given that BHOP still hasn't indicated any sort of limit on Joyous Many, I can only assume that there is some terrible, hidden drawback
we shall see. maybe its a thing where Amara can only handle so many clones under her command before he brain overloads.
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>>3600799
>>3600833
also ive still got the plan saved if anyone wishes to see it.

>>3600849
>Why are we teleporting out and then immediately teleporting to the Lair? Let's just go straight to the Lair after Dorian is out and November has used Autumn Protocol, then back to outside the Armory.
we are teleporting to the outside first just incase the thing survives, as we can better deal with it or any new tricks from Mother on the surface. if it survives, fighting it in an enclosed space or dealing with anything new in an enclosed space would be silly.

also, we have limited actions and all of that is waaay too much 'what if' planning in my opinion.
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>>3600879
>we shall see. maybe its a thing where Amara can only handle so many clones under her command before he brain overloads.
>>3600469
>Given that BHOP still hasn't indicated any sort of limit on Joyous Many, I can only assume that there is some terrible, hidden drawback.
Amara is also 7 years old. she's got a child mentality, and despite her surprising emotional maturity, she's still a child. having her send clones to far off places only for her clones to witness things a child should normally not see is scary.

>>>3600849
>Why are we teleporting out? and then immediately teleporting to the Lair?
For clarification's sake, we're teleporting to above ground with one of Dorian's planted Escher spokes. Given the situation, we are on a time limit so we have to manage our action economy both in combat and out of combat. Teleporting to our home base is simply doing a quick a party swap. November will be low on Energy after firing the Autumn Cannon, and Amara isn't really fit for combat, but can still support us via Joyous Many clone proxies.
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>>3600930
>Amara is also 7 years old. she's got a child mentality, and despite her surprising emotional maturity, she's still a child. having her send clones to far off places only for her clones to witness things a child should normally not see is scary.
its still in even her best interest for us to do that, but yeah that is a good point. its gonna suck when she witnesses something and start screaming at us to help someone who we might not be able to get to in time even if we did have a waypoint there.
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>>3600956
Everyone as a family have to do some really good parenting with Amara when she has a scared clone moment.
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>>3600956
I just see that as a reason for Amara to get stronger. Make it so that she can eventually help people on her own, have a crack team of Joyous Many intervene and stop whatever awfulness she found. But yeah, until she gets to that point it's going to be rough for her. Imagine having to console your child waking up from a nightmare, only whatever they saw is really happening.
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>>3601011
>>3600999
yeah, its gonna be a harsh lesson for her and one she will need help to come to terms with. im actually surprised we haven't had a similar conversation over us constantly getting to places too late to stop things, only end whats going on.
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>>3601018
I think there's a lot that hasn't entirely kicked in for Amara yet. She recognizes danger, but she doesn't really seem to understand the tragedy of the Crucible yet.
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>>3601029
thats true. actually, people keep talking about mental over physical corruption, but what about skintalkers? think about it, she constantly sees corpses as 'treasure' and happily points it out, never seeing as something disturbing or tragic unless we point it out, and seems to be naturally get this interpretation from the fleshscape talking to her. shes constantly doing little things like that, acting like the fleshscape is saying one thing until we point out what else it actually is, albeit not always something so severe, but still. i mean, im just gonna say it, even before she knew what the sororitas was, she probably shouldn't of been super excited over it, same with happily finding us a corpse to consume, enemy or not.

but she just trusted the fleshscape on its interpretation of the info it was telling her. we may be overlooking Skintalkers corruption mechanic is being constantly connected to the one thing we should never trust, at least morally; the crucible itself.
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>>3601055
Possibly. I think at least her casual attitude towards corpses comes from being able to communicate with biomass. It doesn't even have to be mental corruption, I can see it as just being the result of seemingly "inanimate" objects being capable of speech from her perspective. Every object is a person, which means that conversely every person is an object. The difference between the two is solely how it responds to her. Corpses aren't scary, because she already is used to thinking that things she thinks of as people can just stop talking and acting and there's nothing wrong with that. That person isn't gone, you just can't hear them. And given how dream Daughters work, she's not even wrong.

That said, after that scare with Lara I think she's probably going to be more careful. Less eager to trust the first read she gets from her abilities and more focused on gathering as much information as she can before making a decision. So her constant contact with the Crucible shouldn't be a huge problem, going forward, if it turns out there is a mental corruption through it. We need to level up Holistic Lexicon some more, that should help.
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>>3601099
>We need to level up Holistic Lexicon some more, that should help.
well, that would increase the corruption so wouldn't help as much as you think. i also kinda meant maybe some of that stuff IS the corruption, in that its less literally altering her mind so much as having that stuff will naturally alter how you view reality without the Crucible having to force anything on you, though either way im sure as she levels up her core it'll get worse, or something more forceful like it will pop up.

fucking, just imagine if we have to deal with her actually saying the fleshscape is starting to talk to her all on its own and say 'weird things' to her. someone get our group some aspirin, they're gonna need it if that starts up.
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>>3601029
>>3601018
She's actually had a near scare with nearly killing Lara due to her judgement and our actions towards defending ourselves. And if we're bringing Amara clones with us to fight and kill Isabelle, we'll need to teach her what tragedy is and what it means to properly come to terms. Amara may have some prior experience with her own mother dying on the job and having to deal with the trauma of her own mother not being there for her, but she hasn't fully grasped the concept. I feel like we're doing alright with raising her as her surrogate adoptive family, but we could do better.
>>3601055
Well shit. I never thought about that. Now that I think about it, the most probable form of Skintalker corruption is their growing detachment to the moors of Humanity. SkinTalkers are supposedly fragile in combat, but have the best out-of-combat utility due to their connection with the Crucible planet itself, and since the conditions to get a skintalker core ability requires that the daughter having a psychological yearning for companionship and people to talk to, their powers might grow to reflect their growing trust of the fleshscape and adopt the alien mindset of being a denizen of the Crucible world the more they level up their skin talker abilities. Which really emphasizes the important playstyle of having minders and friends to keep your human moral logic in check. We can keep her core at lvl 5 or push it to lvl 10 if we're feeling ballsy on Mental corruption, but I think Amara's power potential stems from having a really big vocab library to play with.
>>3601099
Well that's taking the religion of Animism to its logical conclusion. Amara might still hear dream!Isabelle's cries of frustration/anger/betrayal/heartbreak if we do succeed in killing Isabelle and work on debating on whether or not to consume Isabelle.

Which also brings up this topic. Amara has yet to grasp the concept of permadeath. She may have a brush with the concept after her mother died, but with the Fleshscape rules, it's gonna be harder to teach her that.
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>>3601129
>well, that would increase the corruption so wouldn't help as much as you think.
Maybe. My thinking was that the greater information it grants should, if she's smart about it (and has the rest of the party to counsel her), allow her to outpace any mental effect there might be. But I'm personally pretty sure Skintalker gives physical mutations like all the other non-Vitruvian classes, anyway. Vitruvian gives mental because the whole point of it is unity and purity of body, it has to manifest mentally. But classes based around information seem to still give physical Corruption, see West Prime's jellyfish skin. And given Mother's comments about the Corruption being something meant to drive apart groups, and how West thinks that's just Mother projecting her own insecurities, I think it's likely that Mother suffered from physical corruption as a Skintalker as well.

>>3601139
>Which also brings up this topic. Amara has yet to grasp the concept of permadeath. She may have a brush with the concept after her mother died, but with the Fleshscape rules, it's gonna be harder to teach her that.
I think she grasps it in the abstract, as she was able to express the thought of "no, Gina's not really dead, Shu!", but yeah. No real contact with it personally. Ideally, she never will. I don't want to lose anyone else on this journey. Okay, she can learn the concept of perma-death from our enemies who are especially awful, when we kill them and don't consume them. West, want to be a demonstration?
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>>3601139
>prior experience with her own mother dying on the job and having to deal with the trauma of her own mother not being there for her, but she hasn't fully grasped the concept
i do wonder what her trauma actually is. it could be that but we really just dont know.

>We can keep her core at lvl 5 or push it to lvl 10 if we're feeling ballsy on Mental corruption
id have no fucking clue what would even work with it, but if we are worried about mental corruption, as much as you dislike it, her core actually will probably suffer the least from hybridizing, as while its useful her actual cores abilities arent where most of its actual utility comes from. the issue here is, mental corruptions alot harder to deal with that physical. our little family heres open minded, i dont think any amount of physical corruption will actually make them care, they might even twist it around to somehow be a bonding experience and have a laugh out or it, or simply literally not care at all.

but mental corruption? or anything similar? that can outright force a person to change, thats actually a difficult and big blow for a close knit family to deal with.

>Amara has yet to grasp the concept of permadeath.
i think she has an idea about it. i dont think Lara would've hit so hard if she didn't have any understanding of it. she does at least seem to understand not everyones gonna be a dream daughter id think, but it is hard to tell.

>>3601166
im not so sure. Skintalker doesn't say how it gets corruption, hell Skintalkers cant even explain how their choice manifests. they are honestly the most unique and out there class, and i think it would make perfect sense their corruption is not simply just physical corruption. it also makes the least sense for theirs to be physical, as they have the least amount of physical alterations, actually needing literally zero alterations to use their power. it being physical wouldn't fit with the class at all, in my opinion.
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>>3601180
>im not so sure. Skintalker doesn't say how it gets corruption, hell Skintalkers cant even explain how their choice manifests. they are honestly the most unique and out there class, and i think it would make perfect sense their corruption is not simply just physical corruption. it also makes the least sense for theirs to be physical, as they have the least amount of physical alterations, actually needing literally zero alterations to use their power. it being physical wouldn't fit with the class at all, in my opinion.
If there were two classes that had mental corruption, then West Gamma's initial notes on B'Ni would not say "she's clearly Vitruvian since she has no physical corruption", but "she's either Vitruvian or Skintalker". And Skintalkers do get physical modifications related to their powers. Amara can grow mouths anywhere on her body, corruption could lead to permanent extra mouths. Or modifications to her throat and lungs for being more resonant, or having larger ears to hear more, or all sorts of things. Remember, corruption doesn't come just from the Core, so the physical corruption from being a Skintalker doesn't have to be a huge thing. It's the sum of all the user's skills, each of them having a variable degree of mutation that adds up to a totemic form the Crucible has in mind for the Daughter.
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>>3601220
except even West was not able to note everything about skintalkers, unable to herself put into words what the class did with choices. its entirely possible she doesn't actually fully know how it works, as she already admitted and showed signs of it not being a class she herself fully understands. she didnt say anything related to Isabelle because its obvious she isnt one, because Skintalkers are not physical fighters, and Isabelle clearly was one. its also a mentality thing, classes fit a personality, and Isabelle doesn't at all fit a skintalker. plenty of reasons she wouldn't of said both for her.

also thats reaching in my opinion. none of that is necessary, otherwise she would already have it. its magical words basically the strength of her lungs wont change its potency. and the extra mouths also is more a gluttonous thing, and if it was gonna manifest something akin to that, it would more likely take a route where she doesn't need a mouth at all. also each class still fully corrupts on its own, like the fact Julia already shows signs from Badgers Barbarism. it doesn't matter how the other classes do it, were talking how Skintalker does it, and how skintalker does it wont be based on how other classes do it.

im sticking to its being mental or something else, its entirely makes no sense for it to be anything else.
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>>3601180
>but mental corruption? or anything similar? that can outright force a person to change, thats actually a difficult and big blow for a close knit family to deal with.
I am now reminded that Rath's core is a Vitruvian/Generator/Fibromancer hybrid. Her corruption might be a blend of all three classes, taking an aspect of corruption from each class and combining them all together, Vitruvian Mental corruption heightening a mental paradigm (possibly self-destructive anger or a form of self-destruction), Generator corruption would make her physically more volatile (prone to catching fire or exploding), Fibromancy would be drastically altering the affected limb (Her Phantom arms)
>>3601220
I distinctly remember Bhop saying Skintalkers in a nutshell function as a Witch/Druid Hybrid. Witches specialize in spellcasting and unique spells while Druids specialize in communing with Nature and their environment. My postulation for Amara's choice is that she had to choose between path of the Witch (Greater spellcasting, words are cheaper, and more powerul) or path of the Druid (She gets to glean more secrets and discover more words from the fleshscape and has a stronger passive aura). And given the results, Amara chose the fool's choice which puts her somewhere in the middle. She gets spellcasting efficiency with favored words (path of the Witch) but also is allowed to have more choices in building her word library by exploring along with a minor upgrade in her passive aura (path of the Druid)
Which leads to the topic of SkinTalker Corruption: I think that Amara would suffer from some form of hexes (cosmetic mutations) and corruption of Druidism (getting ent-like traits or turning into a fleshy dryad), but I can't really be sure. We haven't really met any advanced SkinTalkers who have taken a choice that isn't a fool's choice.

Anyways. it's 11:30. The next Vein's set to be cut open at 9 am tomorrow and we should get some rest. We have a complex heist to stop a rabbit from summoning a God.
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>>3601263
i dont think Raths issue is self-destruction, but recklessness, and yes like you said, anger. i mean ill admit they are similar but they have their differences. self-destructive means they deep down one WANTS to fail or harm themselves, which is dont think she wants that, she just isnt at all that careful, hence her original Core allowing her to not have to be.

and i honestly just recently woke up from a nap so im not gonna e able to snooze again for a bit, but you get some sleep Anon.
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>>3601250
>except even West was not able to note everything about skintalkers, unable to herself put into words what the class did with choices. its entirely possible she doesn't actually fully know how it works, as she already admitted and showed signs of it not being a class she herself fully understands
Fair, but I still think she knows enough to recognize one.

>he didnt say anything related to Isabelle because its obvious she isnt one, because Skintalkers are not physical fighters, and Isabelle clearly was one. its also a mentality thing, classes fit a personality, and Isabelle doesn't at all fit a skintalker. plenty of reasons she wouldn't of said both for her.
Then why not mention that part? Why not say "she's either a Vitruvian or a Skintalker, based on her behavior I believe her to be a Vitruvian"?

>also thats reaching in my opinion. none of that is necessary, otherwise she would already have it
The corruption doesn't appear to be necessary, though. From what we've heard it's largely cosmetic. Like West Prime getting skin made of woven neurofibers. She doesn't need that to mind-jack people with a touch, she could already do that, but the corruption gave it to her because the Crucible wants her to be a jellyfish monster for whatever reason.

>the extra mouths also is more a gluttonous thing, and if it was gonna manifest something akin to that, it would more likely take a route where she doesn't need a mouth at all
Also a possibility, maybe she'll mutate to have no mouth and speak via resonant membranes. Literally "skin talking", if you would.

>also each class still fully corrupts on its own, like the fact Julia already shows signs from Badgers Barbarism.
Unnatural Predator is different, the point of it is to turn you into a bestial form. That's the skill working as intended, not the corruption side-effect. Otherwise, skills don't fully corrupt on their own, they contribute to the greater theme.

>>3553072
>So is Mara's Core skill (or original Core skill, since if she had the Arbiter's Appetite she likely acquired several) Unnatural Predator or an Unnatural Predator hybrid? Or is it just a bunch of different corruptions all coming together? Like this Fibromancy skill is making her grow giant, this Calcite Armorer skill is making her grow bone scales, this Generator skill is reshaping her throat and mouth to be better at breathing fire, etc.

>>3553087
>(You nailed it, Anon. It was all of them reaching high corruption in tandem, and working together to make a cohesive form. Unless someone goes completely nuts with skill accumulation or they level a Core Unnatural Predator to max, then most Daughters' final forms are fairly on-theme for a single conceptual entity, such as a dragon, a canine, etc, unlike Amalgams that are a little more chaotic in nature.)
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>>3601263
Well, the physical corruptions don't seem to be self-harming, so she probably won't explode. But yeah, it should be interesting to see how having a Vitruvian hybrid changes things compared to pure Vitruvian.
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>>3601263
Oh, and good night, of course. Forgot to type that out, I am a derp. I should go to sleep, myself. Good night, everyone.
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>>3601285
>Unnatural Predator is different, the point of it is to turn you into a bestial form. That's the skill working as intended, not the corruption side-effect. Otherwise, skills don't fully corrupt on their own, they contribute to the greater theme.
that IS Unnatural Predators corruption though. its just its corruption is heavily tied into what its meant to do.

also yes i understand that together all the corruption from multiple trees will make the corruption worse, i never said thats not the case, only that each ability has its own corruption that can happen in different ways and to different levels as it grows, and is independent of eachother. BHOP literally said there that different abilities still had specific ability based corruptions, its just together they made her look like a dragon. say, even if she went down a different route that dragon, fire breathing would've still done specific corruption changes to her throat.

>>3601300
but fine, you need sleep so we will just agree to disagree.
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>>3601317
>also yes i understand that together all the corruption from multiple trees will make the corruption worse, i never said thats not the case, only that each ability has its own corruption that can happen in different ways and to different levels as it grows, and is independent of eachother.
I'm not sure what we're arguing, then? Because that's what I was saying, that her corruption from Skintalker doesn't have to be some huge thing, because the Crucible can corrupt her further via other skills. Maybe I misunderstood and was talking past you because I'm tired. I'll try to understand again in the morning. Good night, anon. Try to get some rest yourself, soon, as >>3601263 we're going to need it.
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>>3601331
i think we got sidetracked from our original discussion using other classes mechanics and as examples, while ignoring they all are unique in their own way or something.

anyways, night Anon.
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>>3600930
I get that we are using a Spoke, what I don't understand is why we are doing
>inside Armory > outside Armory > Lair > outside Armory
rather than
inside Armory > Lair > outside Armory
We can do the party swap and finish off Phalanx afterwards.

If Phalanx has high regen I suppose it would be better not to take the extra time, but in that case we're better off not teleporting at all until we've killed it.

>>3601285
West's notes aren't comprehensive enough about the topic to know for certain whether Skintalking leads to mental corruption or not. It makes sense to (a) have strategies to deal with it in case, and (b) teach Amara about death etc. regardless.

Do we think the Sparagmos Engine reverses the effects of corruption? If so, we could use it to temporarily level Lexicon, observe the effects, then revert the change. We want to avoid moving levels around willy-nilly but this seems like a good one-off reason to do it, though only if we are sure that corruption is reversed by removing the levels, which we could easily test by removing one level of Hive and touching Shu's back.
>>
Gentlemen, the 24th Vein is now open.

>>3601795



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