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Where we left off...
Remembering the experience, Caster grinds her teeth, and the feathers of her wings fluff up in distress, "To make matters worse, her cult couldn't even sustain the knowledge we gave them!" she exclaims, "Today, all of our teachings have been lost, and the only ritual magic remaining is this pathetic thing you humans have come up with on your own! It's useless! Wasteful! Why couldn't they have just kept doing things the way we told them?" Livid, she gets to her feet and shouts, "Κεραινο!" At her command, lighting cracks down, reducing a massive oak on the opposite side of the clearing to charred splinters. Then all the anger seems to drain from her, and she sits back down, calm again.

"I'm sorry about that," she says, smiling sweetly enough that it seems like her earlier wrath was an illusion "I'm afraid my temper got the better of me. Let's move on to the second lower source, Od. As I said before, your magic circuits build up Od within you over time, up to their maximum capacity. When you switch your circuits into an active state, you can take hold of that energy, shape it into the form of a spell, and pour it out of yourself into the world, actualizing that particular mystery. The forms your Od is inclined to take, and thus what kind of spells you can use, are dictated by inborn tendencies within your magic circuits, known as your elemental affinity and your origin."

"I see," you say, "can you tell me about..."

>[ ] "...how to activate my circuits?"

>[ ] "...element and origin? What are those, exactly?"

>[ ] "...your magic? How does that fit into this scheme of things?"

>[ ] "...how this relates to Servants? I'm curious how it is that you sustain yourself with my energy."

>[ ] Ask about something else (Write in)

>>3385052

>[ ] "...element and origin? What are those, exactly?"

>>3385052
Can we have all of these answered in time or is it a limited amount?

>>3385052
>[ ] "...your magic? How does that fit into this scheme of things?"
Teach us of your bullshit ways, Caster.

>>3385072
The choice right now is for what you want to ask next.

>>3385076
Okay.
>[ ] "...element and origin? What are those, exactly?"

>>3385052
>[ ] "...your magic? How does that fit into this scheme of things?"


Last thread had an anon who wanted to suggest private lessons, I would like to throw in some light teasing/flirting if possible.

>>3385084
Timing, anon. Let's ask a srs qeustin first.

>>3385098
Asking about her magic is serious
Considering that she taught humans from the Age of Gods her magic (it's not possible for modern humans to learn Divine Words for reasons, probably Alaya being a bitch).
And we've
>been reforged into a "conceptual being," an inhuman imitation of ancient heroes.
So we just MIGHT have the aptitude.

>>3385052
Ask her about our nature as a conceptual being

>>3385103
When you put it that way,
>[ ] "...your magic? How does that fit into this scheme of things?"

>>3385052
>[ ] "...your magic? How does that fit into this scheme of things?"
If she taught it to mortals, she should be able to teach it to us.

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You have braved the bowels of a university to reach me. But the hand of cowboy, which deals in false justice and shitty movies, can never hope to defeat the lord master of Caster!

Update never?

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>>3385601
We're basically asking him to dump lore on us, be patient.

>>3385601
Sweets is on Pacific Time, has a life, and updates when he can. Also lore dumps take a while. Give it time.

>>3385585
>shitty movies
Hey, I love the Clint Eastwood westerns!

>>3385622
Not just lore, actual original lore. I've combed through the side/world material for Fate, and basically all Nasu wrote about the Divine Language was "it's cool old magic, don't ask questions."

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>>3385665
How big of a dump? Garden of Sinners big?

>>3385690
Nope. I've been running errands most of this time, actually. Just got home.

This is all important information, but it's also focused on human magic, making you wonder how that differs from what Caster is able to accomplish. "Can you tell me about the magic you use?" you ask, "how does it fit into this framework of methodologies?"

"It's a bit of all three," Caster says, "when I was a goddess, I used magic drawn from Thea, of course. For gods, though, that's equivalent to a human drawing power from Od. It was after I was imprisoned on Aeaea that I had to begin using the Divine Language to command Mana, as I had taught my followers to. That method isn't exactly effective any more either, though. You see, the Divine Language carried authority over Mana because it was used by the gods, those for whom Mana was a natural tool. Even after the Age of Gods came to an end, as long as humans continued to use the Divine Language for magic, that authority would remain. The rule of 'Mana obeys the authority of the Divine Language' would have been kept ingrained in Gaia." Caster heaves a sigh as she continues, "Unfortunately, that isn't what happened. As I said, humans lost the Divine Language, and its inherent authority has faded with the passage of time. I'm able to use it now partially because of my own divine essence, and partially by layering Od-based spells to enhance my authority over Mana. Those spells are what expend the mystic energy I receive from you when I use magic."

"Fascinating," you say, "so you're essentially casting one spell with Od that has the effect of making the Divine Language effective, and then doing the rest with the old method?"

Caster nods, looking abashed at the shift in her technique, "that's right. It's something of an inelegant, patchwork solution, I know."

As you comprehend the makeup of her abilities, an idea strikes you. If it's your Od that she's using to keep the Divine Language functional, you should be able to use the same technique! "In that case," you say excitedly, "can you teach me the same method?"

Your hopes come crashing down as Caster shakes her head, an expression of sympathy on her face. "I'm afraid not," she says. "Even with the reinforcement I'm giving it from your Od, the authority of my Divine Language is only made possible by my being an existence with a fundamental link to the Age of Gods. Without that connection to the ancient power, you'd find them useless. As things are now, reviving the use of the Divine Language for anyone but myself or another ancient heroic spirit is impossible."

"Ah, well," you say, "I suppose it was a bit much to hope I could learn magic powerful enough to make someone legendary. The Divine Language aside, what about that other thing you were talking about..."

>[ ] "...a mental trigger for magic circuits? How does one develop something like that?"

>[ ] "...the form Od has a tendency to take? You said it was based on qualities in the Magic Circuits called origin and elemental affinity. What are those?"

>[ ] Ask about something else (Write in)

>>3385702
>[ ] "...the form Od has a tendency to take? You said it was based on qualities in the Magic Circuits called origin and elemental affinity. What are those?"
Hmmm.

>>3385702
>[ ] "...the form Od has a tendency to take? You said it was based on qualities in the Magic Circuits called origin and elemental affinity. What are those?"

>>3385702
>[ ] "...the form Od has a tendency to take? You said it was based on qualities in the Magic Circuits called origin and elemental affinity. What are those?"

>>3385665
A metaphor:
Imagine that you are at an office and Gaia is the lady behind the counter.
>Magecraft is like filling out Subsection 3A of Form 17B and Subsections 31, 33 and 45 of Form 6Q.
>Divine Words are like being the boss and telling her to do what you want.
>True Magic is like leaving the office and doing whatever the fuck you like without her approval.
Instead of using autohypnosis and other bullshit, you just order Gaia directly to do whatever.

>>3385702
>[ ] "...the form Od has a tendency to take? You said it was based on qualities in the Magic Circuits called origin and elemental affinity. What are those?"

>>3385717
True Magic is like leaving the office, then driving a car through the office wall for fun.

>>3385717
Well, yes. That's how I've written it up here. However, Nasu never said anything to that effect in any of the sources I could find. The only thing I've read that goes into any detail on how divine words function is the Caster page on TM wiki, and they don't have a source cited for what they have to say about it.

>>3385726
And Alaya sends hitmen after you forever.

>>3385732
Fucking "No Fun Allowed" Alaya trying to rain on Magician's parades.
You'd think it would actually do something about the grail war after 200 years yet here we are.

>>3385730
>source
What about Medea's Magecraft?
>Fact A: She has High-Speed Divine Words, and can teleport shit with a single word.
>Fact B: Unconditional teleportation should be True Magic or Divine Magic.
>Extension of B: Teleportation with a few conditions should be High Thaumaturgy.
>Conclusion: Medea is using Divine Words to speed up her Magecraft.

>>3385739
Why do you think nobody ever wins one?

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>>3385747
Because apparently nobody ever thought to summon this asshole.
FGO's backstory is retarded

>>3385745
I don't see how that interferes with what I have here. Just like Circe, Medea is a connection between the present and the Age of Gods, and draws in energy from an outside source to supplement her divine words.

>>3385773
It doesn't. Just proof that Divine Words work the way you wrote them.

>>3385773
The real bullshit is Unified Words.
Unified Words make no fucking sense.
>Once upon the time everyone spoke the same language so they were speaking through their soul, or something
>and this is a super power, or something
>and you can use it to control anyone without a direct connection to the root, or something
The kicker is that it's the language of Ancient Babylon so realistically Gilgamesh (and Enkidu) should be able to win against basically everyone by speaking.
I mean, I'm sure it doesn't actually work that way but what the fuck.
Fucking Kara no Kyoukai

>>3385800
>Q: Caster's "Divine Words" and Kara no Kyoukai's Kurogiri Satsuki's "Unified Language," are the same thing right?

>A: They are seemingly different. Divine Words, so to speak, was an advance incantation language used in various mythological times. It cannot be reproduced with human vocal organs.
The "Unified Language" is the "truth," people had before they were separated.
WHAT DOES THIS EVEN FUCKING MEAN ARGH.

>>3385702
>[ ] "...the form Od has a tendency to take? You said it was based on qualities in the Magic Circuits called origin and elemental affinity. What are those?"

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>autistic
>student
>ambitious
>contracted with an immortal with unusual hair colour
>mind controls people without a second thought
>surronds self with allies of questionable value
>keeps making complex plans and getting btfo by incredibly simple things or acting like an idiot
>gets betrayed like a retard and manages to make a near perfect comeback despite losing an ally
>student council president Lelouch was only vice president but that's nepotism's fault

>>3385800
>>3385818
The Unified Language is what Nimrod and his people spoke.
After the Tower of Babel fell everyone forgot how to speak it because of the curse of God and Nimrod settled down, becoming Ninurta -- Gilgamesh's gramps.

"What was that other thing you were talking about," you say, "the tendency of Od to take certain forms? You said it was based on a magus' 'element' and 'origin,' but what are those?"

"Well," Caster begins, "the simpler of the two to explain is element. Just like magic circuits, every magus is born with a certain alignment, dictating their affinity for a particular element in the world. Any magic they use will be of this element. That's not to say that one can only be aligned to a single element, of course. Those of more rarefied lineages of magi cultivate alignment to multiple elements. Needless to say, one such as myself can use magic of all elements with equal ease."

"As for the elements themselves," Caster continues, "there are seven, divided into two categories. First are the five elements of the material world. Those are the elements that exist on this side of reality, and are most frequently considered in orthodox magical theory. These elements are Fire, Water, Earth, Wind, and Sky. These should be rather self-explanatory."

"Not quite," you interject. "I understand the first four, but how does Sky differ from Wind?"

A look of surprised realization crosses Caster's face. "Of course! I'm sorry, the term makes more sense for the sensibilities of the Age of Gods. This is the sky in the mystical sense, also known as Heaven or Ether. Sky is the element of magic itself, and a degraded form of the element of the gods. You could say that all mystic energy, before being processed into one of the other elements, is of Sky, and it's particularly effective when dealing with spiritual entities or constructions of pure magic."

"Ah, I see," you say, nodding. "That makes more sense. So what are the other two?"

"The other two elements," Caster continues, "are Void and Nothingness. These are also known as the Imaginary Elements, because they're the two elements of the reverse side of the world, the realm of imaginary numbers. This is where the gods, phantasmal beasts, and such disappeared to at the end of the Age of Gods, and as such the Imaginary Elements were created after the other five. It's only relatively recently that magi have discovered them; if not for the knowledge of the modern world I received when I was summoned, I wouldn't be familiar with them myself!" Caster says, laughing.

"These two can be considered the elements necessary to make the retreat of the gods a possibility. Void is the element of possibilities outside the physical plane, and governs the fundamental rules of the world of Imaginary Numbers. It's the equivalent of True Ether for that world. On the other hand, Nothingness is the element of transition, defining the materialization of the impossible."

You give Caster a blank stare. Frankly, it's going a bit over your head. Realizing the difficulty, Caster goes on, "to put it another way, Void is the element that defines those existences which are impossible to materialize here and makes them possible in the other world, while Nothingness enables them to materialize in that realm. Using Void and Nothingness, the gods, who had become impossibilities in the changing world, were able to create a new world for themselves in which they were able to exist without difficulty."

"I see," you say, deciding it's best just to put the subject behind you and move on. After all, if only the first five matter in the real world, they're presumably the only elements you need to concern yourself with. "So, what about 'origin'?"

"That's a more universal concept," Caster declares, laying a hand on one of the oaks spreading above you, "every living thing, even this tree, has an origin at the time of its creation. The origin of any being is significant, as your origin is intimately tied to your fate and the path your life will take. Put differently, your origin is the central concept of your being. Accordingly, they're usually vague ideas, such as stillness, rather than a specific thing. You'd be hard pressed to find someone with the origin of sword, for example."

"Alright," you say, "so what does one's origin have to do with magic?"

"Magic," Caster explains, "is an essentially conceptual act; the use of energy to act on the world, channeled through the conceptual aspect of your existence. As the idea that oversees that conceptual nature, your origin acts as an influence on all magic you attempt to materialize. While elemental alignment is a simple set of rules, dictating which elements you can and can't use, your origin is more like a dye, which takes any magic you do use and shifts it to be in line with itself."

"I'm not sure I understand," you say, "what sort of influence would this have?"

"Hmm..." Caster thinks for a moment before continuing. "Here's an example. Suppose you have two magi, one with an origin of severing, and one with an origin of refutation. Now, if each of these magi used a generalized spell of reinforcement on an iron plate, they would draw out different aspects of the metal in accordance with their origins. While both would reinforce its hardness, as you'd expect, the magus with the origin of severing would likely also improve the sharpness of the edges, while the magus with the origin of refutation might make the iron reflective."

Fascinating. Two indelible aspects of one's existence, one which restricts and the other which enhances. Curiosity fills you, and you reply, "I see. So, can you tell me what my elemental alignment and origin are?"

>>3386058
FUCK WE SHOULD'VE DONE MORE COMPASSION

"Yes," Caster replies, a smile of satisfaction rising to her face, "although your body is quite different from a normal human's as a result of the remodeling that Cid's ritual has done, I've been carefully analyzing it while you sleep, and I've succeeded in determining your alignment, origin, and various other details. However, the fact of the matter is that they're quite strange. I'm quite sure at this point that the concept underlying your existence was changed by that artifact you used."

"Hang on," you exclaim, jumping up in shock, "my existence was changed? What does that mean?"

"Oh, calm down," Caster says mildly, "I told you before, remember? Previously you were a human, and now you're a conceptual being. That artifact, which I'm calling the 'pseudo-grail' for lack of a better term, seems to have plunged your spirit into the world of Imaginary Numbers, altered it, and then incarnated you back into the world, similar to the process a heroic spirit undergoes when we go to the Throne of Heroes."

You heave a sigh and sit back down. "Alright," you say, "so how has this affected my origin and alignment?"

"As I said," Caster declares, "you've been permeated with Imaginary Numbers, and that element seems to have soaked into your very soul. Your origin is currently Void, and you're aligned to three elements: Void, Nothingness, and Sky."

"Void, Nothingness, and Sky, huh?" You ponder the idea. Difficult elements to understand, let alone use. As you look to the horizon, you see that the sun's sunk low in the sky. It'll be getting dark soon. "Let's go inside," you tell Caster, "we've been talking out here so long, the others might be getting worried, and besides..."

>[ ] "...I've had about all the magic discussion I can handle. I'm going to go down and do some sparring practice with Matsuda, and then we can discuss our next moves in the war."

>[ ] "...I'd like to move this conversation into your workshop so we can go from theory to practice. Can you teach me how to start using magic?"

>[ ] Something else (Write in)

>>3386109
What brings you to that conclusion?

>>3386114
>[ ] "...I'd like to move this conversation into your workshop so we can go from theory to practice. Can you teach me how to start using magic?"
>>3386116
...Never mind, I just remembered that big juju can change your Origin.

>>3386121
Even if the ritual hadn't changed your origin, remember that pride, compassion, and so-on are all the emotions you develop after the beginning of the grail war, whereas your origin was fixed at birth.

>>3386114
>[ ] "...I'd like to move this conversation into your workshop so we can go from theory to practice. Can you teach me how to start using magic?"

>>3386114
>[ ] "...I'd like to move this conversation into your workshop so we can go from theory to practice. Can you teach me how to start using magic?"
If our Origin has been changed, does that mean we wouldn't get completely fucking destroyed by awakening to it? I'm not very keen to experiment (I can't imagine "Void" being a very helpful thing to awaken to anyway), but if our Origin has been altered then it might not cause the entire timeline of our existence to come crashing into the present at once like it did with Lio, or at least there might be a lot less existence to crash because our Origin isn't necessarily tied to our past lives any longer.
Honestly, this question is more just me trying to see how well I understood whatever the fuck was going on in Kara no Kyoukai.

>>3386141
Remember, Lio only went nuts because Araya specifically awakened his Origin. There's nobody else currently walking the Earth with both enough knowledge of Origins and the motive to do it to us.
>inb4 Circe

Putting aside the question of origin, do you folks feel like you got a good understanding of how your elemental alignment works and how you received it from my explanation?

>>3386168
Yeah, that seems about right.

>>3386127
Also, we awakened to Pride, didn't we? It could've been the Origin we had at birth and the Grail awakened it.
Of course you've confirmed that it's false but still

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"Let's go inside. We've been talking out here so long, the others might be getting worried," you say wryly, "and besides, I'd like to move this conversation into your workshop so we can go from theory to practice. Can you teach me how to start using magic?"

"If you're ready to start using your magic circuits," Caster says, "certainly."

Once the two of you are in her workshop, Caster gestures to a round stool she's placed in the center of the room. This time, the tower-room has returned to the appearance it had when you first saw it, the walls crowded with racks of strange magical tools, potions, and materials. "Take a seat there," she says, "and just try to relax for a moment. Close your eyes."

You follow her instructions, closing your eyes and breathing deeply as you remain seated on the stool. For a few moments, you can hear her walking around the workshop, and then she comes to a stop in front of you. You feel her cool fingertip touch the center of your forehead. Then all relaxation disappears.

You feel a surge of burning pain, flowing through your body from the point of contact. The searing heat fills you in a moment, and sweat springs forth from your brow. Yous breath is coming in short, shallow gasps. "Breathe," Caster sighs, and her voice is like a salve, "just stay calm," she says, "feel it without letting the pain control you. I've filled your magic circuits with flowing mystic energy, forcing them into an active state." As she speaks softly into your ear, you find that your body is able to relax. You follow her instructions, observing the sensation of the mystic energy as if from a ditance. "You need to become conscious of your circuits as a body part," Caster explains, "feeling them in action is the best way to do that."

Gradually, the burning sensation stabilizes and refines its location. As you concentrate on it, you can feel the 126 lines it traces in your body. These are the magic circuits that the energy flows through. Just like that, as you become conscious of the circuits, your body ceases to register the sensation of the mystic energy as pain; just the way an image can reverse when you refocus your eyes, the sensation, without changing, becomes something entirely new.

"Good," Caster says as she watches your breathing normalize, "I see you've managed to contextualize the energy for your senses." Then she withdraws her touch from your forehead, and the energy drains out of you. "Now," she continues, "we will train your ability to switch your circuits from passive to active on your own. First, concentrate on the circuits. Try to feel them even while there's no energy flowing through them."

"Alright," you answer, focusing your mind on the pattern the energy had traced. It's extremely faint, but after several minutes of meditation, you do manage to find the circuits again. "I have them," you confirm.

"Now," says Caster, "I'll activate them again for you. Put your mind into an imaginative state. Focus on imagery, and memorize what comes to mind when I activate your magic circuits this time. That will be your trigger." Then the energy flows through you again, not burning this time but empowering. Visualizing the energy's sudden surging motion, you see...

>[ ] The sails of a ship, filling with a strong wind.

>[ ] A door, opening into darkness.

>[ ] The blade of a guillotine, falling to the chopping block.

>[ ] The sun, rising over the horizon.

>[ ] Something else (Write in)

>>3386257
>Something else
The void giving way to an endless sky

>>3386141
>can't imagine "Void" being a very helpful thing to awaken to anyway
By the way, this is Shiki Ryougi's origin (technically「」but the special pamphlet says it would be pronounced as "kara", meaning "void"). Yumigawa is (appropriately) connected directly to the Root if he has the same Origin.
It also means he's on Alaya's shit-list for being connected to the Root.

>>3386267
What I'm using for Void is 虚, though, and that's read as kyo. Kara is another reading of 空, the element I'm referring to as Sky.
This would be far less confusing if Nasu hadn't given 3 of the 7 elements names that can all be translated as nothing, emptiness, or void.

>>3386270
Fuck Nasu and fuck Kanji

To clarify: 空, read as kuu, kara, sora, etc can be translated as sky, void, empty air, or vacuum. That's the fifth real element, also known as ether.
虚, read as ko, kyo, muna(shii), or utsu(ro) can be translated as emptiness, fissure, or void, and is the first imaginary element, also known as imaginary numbers.
You're aligned with both elementally, but your origin is 虚.

>>3386276
Also, Imaginary Numbers was Sakura's Element.

>>3386283
This is correct. It's Sakura you share an element and origin with, not Shiki.

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>>3386289
>sharing anything with wormslut
reeeeeeeeeeeeee

>>3386257
>[ ] The sun, rising over the horizon.

>>3386257
>[ ] The sun, rising over the horizon.
PRAISE THE SUN.

>>3386294
Sakura is a good girl who deserves a nice life.

>>3386304
Waifus ain't free. The Holy Grail gotta be littrd with the blood of Matos.
Sakura aka "wormslut" is not my waifu, she is a worm ridden thot and probably not a virgin as well :DD
Circe not Sakura ok. God bless legal teen

>>3386257
>A Solar Eclipse
C’mon, something a little more cool for our boy now anons

>>3386308
You have to consider the implications of the trigger. It's a highly personal image that reveals information about your personality and psyche.

>>3386303
You know what?
Switch to
>something else
>A bird taking flight
Birds make the best waifus mental triggers

>>3386324
>spoiler within spoiler
Just for that I'm switching from >>3386261 (You) to
>The sun, rising above the horizon

>>3386340
Wew, I really fucked that up in every way.
I suppose that's what I get for overusing spoiler tags and ctrl+v'ing them

>>3386333
Anon, think of Circe.
Don't let my poor use of spoiler tags dissuade you.
We'll be thinking of something that reminds us of her every time we use magic.
And she was a goddess of magic.

>>3386345
Pigs would be a better reminder.
What if our trigger was the image of punching Cid in the face?

>>3386347
>mental trigger is punching Cid
>every time we try to punch him for real he does his nothin personnel shit and teleports off
>try and use mental trigger
>Cid disappears
Also, birds and flight have more symbolism than just magical Bird Waifu.
Like we pretty obviously believe we're above the common man.

>>3386349
Birds have always been more symbolic of freedom than of pride.

>>3386352
And Rushorou is finally free of the expectations of his boring life.
Also
>birds = free
>Circe = bird
>Circe = imprisoned and stripped of her status
Something here doesn't add up
Also Circe hasn't really mentioned Piglets.

>>3386361
>Something here doesn't add up
I'm not the one saying birds are reminiscent of Circe.
>Also Circe hasn't really mentioned Piglets.
That's why it would be really spooky.

>>3386364
Birds are reminiscent of her because she fucking has bird wings.

>>3386370
That's a connection a child could make. You need to look deeper.

>>3386387
To be fair, piglet isn't an especially deep connection either.
I'm fine with the sun if it wins.
Fuck knows what it symbolises though.
Muh pride?
no Circe I'm not attracted to Amaterasu please Stop AAAAAAAAA-

>>3386392
>after we become the God-Emperor of humanity we go to the moon
>we get inside the Moon Cell by bargaining with Crimson Moon for the keys
>we bust into the Moon Cell Wars in Extra
>we meet Amaterasu while Circe waits outside, far away
>we pull out our penis to assert dominance
>she pulls out hers

>>3386396
>waits outside, far away
Try millions of years away because Amaterasu has broken powers

>>3386398
It will remain a hypothetical case because as potential Beasts go Tiamat is the superior mamawaifu

>>3386404
Let's use our wish to restart the Age of Gods.
I feel like being a dick.

>>3386409
I don't think that's possible without getting Alaya'd.

>>3386412
You're forgetting one thing
this war is taking place in an artificial world built by Cid.

>>3386409
It would allow us to ask for Circe's divinity back.
>>3386414
This

>>3386431
What a turnaround for Circe if it's possible.
>has her divinity taken away
>gets it back thousands of years later
>is the only god around
I wonder if this would restart the Age of Gods.
Billions will die if so.
Oh well.

>>3386442
Sacrifices must be made. Gilgamesh understands us.

>>3386445
Of course.
Also I feel like restarting the Age of Gods would get anybody who manages it considerable favour from like, every god that manages to return.
Perfect for our goal of ruling the planet.
If we actually decide to go through with this I KNOW we're the bad guy.
But fuck it.
Humans suck right now anyway.

>>3386461
Well, except for the gods who are still worshiped, since they can still perform miracles such as giving Kirei his Magic Circuits

>>3386480
The difference is that full on restarting the Age of Gods would actually allow the gods to take human form on the planet.
Also I don't know where Big G stands in the whole thing.
As far as I know basically every single cool thing has gone to the Reverse Side of the World.
And all the gods are just Divine Spirits now.
We could be like, reverse Gilgamesh if we pull this off.

>>3386494
>Also I don't know where Big G stands in the whole thing.
He just doesn't come down personally, he used to have a Messiah or Angel do his work, if the legends are to be believed.
>As far as I know basically every single cool thing has gone to the Reverse Side of the World.
We still have Arc, Primate Murder, ORT, various gods who are still worshipped today (if people believe legends of them taking physical form) and the occasional spate of gas leaks.

>>3386502
Also, we should deal with Atilla before she shits on the Olympians again.

>>3386502
Yeah but that's like a tiny fraction of cool things.

>>3386507
How do you propose we do that?

>>3386511
Obviously we must go to the Moon and slip Brunestud tree fiddy which will deal with her pretty well.

>>3386515
There are...
Multiple issues with that "plan".

>>3386523
It's not any worse than the other shitpost "plans".
And it's either that or summon Arturia (Male).

>>3386529
We'll get to that hurdle when we get to it.
First we need to restart the Age of Gods anyway.

>>3386541
Yeah, and then make Aeaea into a quiet island retreat for us, Matsuda, Ogawara, Truvi and maybe Kikuko.

Why are we wanting to bring back the Age of the Gods, when that would likely put us on Alaya's shitlist?

>>3386548
Because Alaya will be gone.
Remember, the birth of Alaya was the beginning of the end for the Age of Gods.

>>3386548
Because Alaya can't do shit to us when we're in an artificial world.
Also we ceased being Human the moment we were modified.
THE AGE OF MAN IS OVER.

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>>3386565
>>3386567
Okay, but how does our character know about this and why would he care?

>>3386574
Well Circe outright told us that Humans fucking suck and can't even remember how to magecraft properly and the Gods did a much better job.
As for reasons...
Give Circe her divinity back?
Make humanity something worthy of being ruled?
Become the champion of the gods?
We'd need to discuss this more with Circe though.

>>3386574
>Even after the Age of Gods came to an end
Also, Yumigawa knows her Divinity was lost.
He seems to be showing sparks of compassion, and Caster was pretty vocal about modern Magi having degenerated since Hecate's cult did a shitty job.
He should be nice enough to want to reverse that, not knowing the cost.
Wasn't the Fuyuki Grail trying to kill people specifically because Angsty Manchild corrupted it to make killing people a compulsory step in granting any wish? Cid's Grail might not have the same problem.

>>3386651
Manjew basically made the grail a big ol Monkey's Paw.
Of course restarting the Age of Gods would bring about some sort of apocalypse anyway, what with Dragons and shit probably showing up.
But hey, that's the price you gotta pay sometimes.

>>3386657
Luckily, everyone will also be uber-badasses now that the Age of Gods is back. We have all the benefits of modern philosophies and systems of thought too.

>>3386669
You know, honestly I can't wait to find out what Cid's plan is.
Like, if this is our goal then he's gonna have to have a pretty big plan to one up us.
Wonder if the Gods will be grateful desu.

>>3386257
>[ ] The sun, rising over the horizon.

>>3386541
Calm down, Gilgamesh. Last I checked, we were trying to avoid becoming an irredeemable asshole.

>>3386657
Antsy Manspruce corrupted the Grail because his existence as a heroic spirit was itself the manifestation of a wish. As a servant, he's garbage because he's just a wish and not really a hero. When he died and the Grail took in the embodiment of a 2000-year-old wish, it couldn't really tell the difference between the servant and the wish and took it as both. The "corruption" is that the 2000-year-old wish is so old and powerful that any other wish the Grail receives pales in comparison and gets interpreted as or ignored in favor of "kill everyone."

>>3386678
>getting done in by the t bh filter
Senpai...

>>3386679
>”Last I checked, we were trying to avoid becoming an irredeemable asshole”
I mean, I just want to become the ultimate Hero or something like that.

>>3386679
I'll have you know that Gilgamesh did nothing wrong.
Sacrifices need to be made for the greater good.

>>3386686
>>3386687
>I just want to become the ultimate Hero or something like that.
>Sacrifices need to be made for the greater good.
Because that worked out so well for the Emiya family, right?

1 for void, 1 for eclipse, 2 for sunrise, 1 for a bird taking flight.

Not really a clear winner. What do you folks want your trigger to be?

>>3386704
It worked out pretty well for Shirou in UBW.
So you're either with us or against us. Resistance will earn you an agonizing death in the comfy chair as we continue with our plans for human supremacy and supremacy over humans.

>>3386704
The Emiya family are retards with no ambition.
>"Muh save everyone"
>"Muh seigi no mikata"
No!
The strong will survive!
The worthy shall prosper!
The Gods shall watch over humanity once more and we shall be their champion!

>>3386710
You know what, let's just praise

>>3386718
-PRAISE THE SUN-, WHY WAS AUTO POST EVEN ON
But yeah Sunrise will be fine.

>>3386713
>human supremacy and supremacy over humans
Bringing back the Age of Gods would achieve neither of those things, anon.

>>3386710
I suggested void but if nobody else wants it I'll stick with sunrise.

>>3386724
It’ll be cool QM, just wait

Can any of you tell me why you want the sunrise option?
I wrote the choice last night, and this morning I feel like it has nothing to do with Rushorou's character.

>>3386730
Even though I didn’t vote for it, the whole “Land of the Rising Sun” and “Rushorou becoming a mage and becoming more powerful and capitalizing on his potential” slant is nice.

>>3386730
I mean, I can go back to supporting bird if you want.
Won't solve anything.

>>3386724
>Bringing back the Age of Gods would achieve neither of those things, anon.
Elementary, my Sweet.

It'll do wonders to make humans git gud.
Also, none of the generally meddlesome pagan gods will be around anymore except Circe because nobody worships them anymore and they'll be mere Elementals now, so we can actually get rid of them if Circe can get her Divinity back, leaving humans reigning supreme. we'll plan for Arc and Doge when it comes to that

As for supremacy over humans, we're more prepared than them and can thus be a focus for their hope. They'll fall behind the only guy who knows what he's doing because people as a group are sheep.
That leaves the cosmic gods mostly uninterested in human endeavours because of the sheer scale they operate at, and human supremacy under us.
Even if it's wrong, it's in-character for Yumigawa to think it up, right?

>>3386730
You know what, let's just go with Void giving way to Sky because it has the best connection to Yumi so far not shilling here no sir

>>3386740
I'll support any option that isn't the fucking sun.

>>3386730
One of the many aspects of the sun in Ancient Egyptian religion was the god Horus.
Horus was the manifestation of the phenomenon of kingship. It was the Ancient Egyptian way of understanding why you or I could go out into the street and say "build a pyramid" and nobody would do it, but some other guy could say "build a pyramid" and it would get done.
Kings in Ancient Egypt were considered to be the incarnation of Horus.
As for the connection to Rushorou's character, I should think the kingship angle would be self-evident.

>>3386751
>kingship
But he wants to be the God-Emperor of Mankind, not some pyramid-building eyeliner-wearing perfume-spraying fag.

>>3386755
The Pharoahs of old were ballers and I will hear none of this nonsense.

>>3386257
>[ ] A door, opening into darkness.

>>3386751
First, I was under the impression it was Ra the pyramids were concerned with.

As for the god connected to the pharaohs, wasn't that Hathor? She's the one most frequently depicted with the pharaohs in old kingdom art.

Most importantly, though, Rushorou isn't Egyptian. Why would the unconscious expression of his soul filling with power be based on Egyptian customs?

>>3386763
>First, I was under the impression it was Ra the pyramids were concerned with.
They were giant fucking tombs for pharaohs and the people they wanted to keep in the afterlife
>Most importantly, though, Rushorou isn't Egyptian. Why would the unconscious expression of his soul filling with power be based on Egyptian customs?
To play devil's advocate, the same could be said of Earth, Wind & Fire.

>>3386763
Anyone have some proper Japanese history under their belt? Any big symbolisms for great Japanese rulers rising to power or somesuch our boy should know?

>>3386755
>God-Emperor of Mankind
That falls under the umbrella. Horus is ruler's authority itself. You could be king of Egypt or king of the whole damn world, but you have Horus.

>>3386763
>First, I was under the impression it was Ra the pyramids were concerned with.
My point wasn't so much about the pyramids themselves so much as it is the fact that there's a difference in your ability to affect people. If you tried to give some random dude orders, he probably wouldn't listen, but if you were, say, the President of the United States, they might be more likely to listen to you.
>As for the god connected to the pharaohs, wasn't that Hathor? She's the one most frequently depicted with the pharaohs in old kingdom art.
No, Hathor has more to do with the inundation of the Nile. Any time you see a pharaoh depicted with a falcon, that falcon is Horus.
>Most importantly, though, Rushorou isn't Egyptian. Why would the unconscious expression of his soul filling with power be based on Egyptian customs?
Our other options are sails, a door, and a guillotine. The sun makes about as much sense as any. Also, Land of the Rising Sun and whatnot.

>>3386770
Let me take a look at my notes from a course I had last year. The Emperor is partly associated with the sun from what I recall, since you weren't allowed to look at him for your own safety since otherwise you'd go blind.

>>3386774
There was a write in option though.
We could have had bird
Or THE VOID.

>>3386770
>>3386774
Also, it's important to note that for a good chunk of Japanese history, the emperor is more of a figurehead than anything else.

>>3386782
Well, that’s why I say ruler. I don’t know of any ez-mode Nobunaga symbolism aside from the crest, but that isn’t really fitting for a trigger.

>>3386782
Yeah...
Yumigawa is no figurehead.

>>3386783
>ez-mode Nobunaga symbolism
guns everywhere
or Buddhist monks being slaughtered

We're not even really Japanese anymore, we're a completely new being. I was thinking we should come up with a new name for ourselves too but that might be a little cringy. Though our name won't be much use to us, it's not like we can return to our old life when this is done.

>>3386788
>but that might be a little cringy
Not if we do it right.
How about YUMI?

>>3386788
Even if he’s not Japanese, he doesn’t get cool new knowledge to imagine with. I recall QM saying he was a perfect student, but didn’t really study academic topics outside of a school setting. E.G. glorious nippon.

>>3386767
>They were giant fucking tombs for pharaohs and the people they wanted to keep in the afterlife
And the reason why they were guant was because it was believed that a larger tomb made it easier for Ra to find the soul of the dead person.

>>3386807
Why don't we have a secondary vote where the symbolism behind each choice is explained next to it or something?
Idk

How about a 21 gun salute mental trigger?
Just throwing ideas out there.

>>3386811
This

I'm struggling to find any really big symbol in the Japanese history I studied for a ruler's power. If people have problems with using the sun, we could probably go with something more universal like the unfurling of a flag or banner.

>>3386811
Sailing ship: energy is pouring into, filling, and empowering you, as wind does with a sail. This one is also impacted by Caster's influence, since she wants you to be Odysseus II.

Door opening into darkness: The darkness is the world of Void, your origin and alignment. By activating your magic circuits, you open the door to that aspect of your existence.

Guillotine: this one was for the people who were really into the Dio thing. The most extreme pride option.

Sunrise: I honestly can't remember what my reasoning was when I wrote this one. Maybe the energy flowing over the land with the morning light mirroring the energy flowing through the magic circuits?

>>3386822
>Door opening into darkness: The darkness is the world of Void, your origin and alignment. By activating your magic circuits, you open the door to that aspect of your existence.
Gimme sqrt(-1)

>>3386822
Door opening into darkness: The darkness is the world of Void, your origin and alignment. By activating your magic circuits, you open the door to that aspect of your existence.

>>3386822
>Door opening into darkness: The darkness is the world of Void, your origin and alignment. By activating your magic circuits, you open the door to that aspect of your existence.
The guillotine is pride? I thought that would be duty since it's meant to be a very efficient, utilitarian killing machine.

>>3386840
Yeah, I imagined Pride would be more along the lines of a being descending from the stars or something.

>>3386846
Maybe the Sun is pride because it's >>3386846
us bathing the plebeians in our golden showereffulgence.

>>3386822
>Sailing Ship
For best girl Circe.

>>3386850
Remember how Odysseus leaves her for his wife?
Do you still want to be Odysseus II?

>>3386840
I was thinking along the lines of "the pride of one who judges the masses." Maybe pride/duty.

>>3386822
I realize I didn't put a write in here, but you folks can still feel free to write in your suggestions. I was just explaining the first set of choices.

>>3386853
Do we have a wife?
Remind me.

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>>3386856
I'll leave my write-in alone because I only wanted the Void connection there

>>3386822
I’ll roll with my Eclipse vote

>>3386856
Wouldn't a better one for something like that be a Judge's Gavel?
The guillotine is kind of a symbol of revolution and the masses.
A Headsman's axe would be a better DIO option too.

>>3386871
I've always thought of the French Revolution as kind of the apex of groundless pride, these people seizing power and just drowning the place in blood. So, to me, the guillotine is definitely associated with pride.

>>3386873
>Rushorou
>Groundless pride
Now that’s where you’re off. Rushorou simply recognizes he’s a superior entity who cannot be compared with the rabble of humanity.

>>3386874
Guess it doesn't really matter, since nobody wants the guillotine trigger anyway.

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>>3386861
We have Matsuda.

Just making sure
Everyone's on board with restarting the Age of Gods, right?
Who wants to be the ruler of shitty humans anyway, we need the best of the best.
We can be a true king, chosen by the gods.

>>3386880
I’ll go with whatever IC wishes QM devises based off previous choices.

>>3386880
>Everyone's on board with restarting the Age of Gods, right?
Yes.
>We can be a true king, chosen by the gods.
After that we usurp them, become victorious and rule forever

>>3386882
That's not a no.

>>3386880
While that'd be interesting I'm not sure it'd necessarily be good for Rushurou specifically

>>3386886
Why not?
Hmm.
If Servant parameters scales off from the average value, what if the average human becomes twice as strong?

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>>3386878
That's fucking GAY, anon!

>>3386890
>he can’t enjoy platonically laying in bed with his bro after a few hours of beating the shit out of eachother
This is why you don’t have a winged waifu anon

>>3386889
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Servant values don't actually scale off of human values. 1 was described as a "normal" value, not a regular human value, in the comparison where E=10, D=20, and so on and so forth.
Anyway, it'll be much more than doubled.

>>3386880
No. I'd rather not commit genocide.

>>3386902
Come on anon!
Think of the opportunities!
We'll never rule the planet with that attitude!

>>3386908
When have we ever willingly endangered innocent people? Hell, we went out of our way to Assassin's lair, thinking it was Cid up to his old tricks.

>>3386908
Think about it.
We'll never rule the planet if the gods come back. Our natural superiority will be gone since we're just a human and the gods will be back.
If we ever act as though we're better than any of the gods (and we will because Pride), our shit will get pushed in like it did with Arachne or Niobe.
Gods are bad.

>>3386917
>When have we ever endangered innocent people?
When have we ever had the opportunity, or expressed any sentiments of wanting to protect innocent people whom we don't know?

>>3386923
See >>3386736 (You)

>>3386923
We're not a human anymore though.
Besides, if we manage to get a sort of Champion of the Gods deal ala Gilgamesh then we'd basically be their representative.
And we probably won't say "fuck off" to the Gods like Goldy did

>>3386925
Ogawara
Matsuda

I'm starting to think that after destroying Alaya forever, we should remake it to be subservient to us. Once we've conquered humanity, Alaya will come back with the guiding principle of "whatever Yumigawa says goes", because humans and other living beings remake the World around them to fit their needs.

>>3386940
>whom we don't know
We know these guys

>>3386940
We saw them as possible allies with information.
Sticking together is also a superior survival strategy.
Saving people for the sake of saving them is ridiculous and wasn't what we were doing.

>>3386934
If Circe gets her Divinity back, she won't be much better off than the Elementals, will she?

>>3386937
We're a conceptual being with an existence similar to an Age of Gods human. Which means we're similar to a human who is still inferior to the gods.
If we become Champion of the Gods and don't tell them to fuck off, then we won't be in charge.

>>3386946
We didn't know Matsuda when we met him and tackled a skeleton to save his life.

>>3386967
>We didn't know Matsuda when we met him and tackled a skeleton to save his life.
We didn't have a personality yet, did we?

>>3386967
I imagine it depends on how we phrase our wish.

>>3386981
Since it's Rushorou's wish, there's got to be a better idea than restarting the Age of Gods. Not only does Rushorou not know enough about the world to make that happen, it seems out-of-character for him to want to reestablish entities that would lower his position and worth. We could (and probably should) just take over the world as we know it somehow.

Since Sweets has said we'll get a wish, is it safe to assume Cid has somehow fixed the Fuyuki meme grail that just gives you access to a shitload of mana rather than actually do anything with it for you? Or are we going to need to take extra super duper special care of Caster and/or Truvi just in case?

>>3387019
Yeah but just taking over the world is lazy.
And it's begging to get wrecked by any number of powerful individuals.
Restarting the Age of Gods create the worlds biggest distraction for anyone that might try and stop us.
Additionally, it allows for us to become far more powerful than just wishing to control the world.
A true emperor is one who stands above every one of his subjects.

You know what? We should ask Circe what she wants the wish for.
Making her the first god of the second Age of Gods is a fun plan but we should listen to what she wants.

>>3387019
I feel like Rushurou is still mostly a blank slate-ish character so it's hard to come up with a wish

>>3387184
>Still mostly a blank-slate-ish character
I’d disagree with that. We certainly have some particulars to fill out, but the rough layout are done at this point.

I like how wishing for the return of the Age of Gods has two outcomes
>our ultimate moment of triumph, cementing our place as the eternal ruler of mankind.
or
>the biggest "oops" moment since..... the dawn of mankind? As the world falls to pieces and we don't get any recognition for it.

>>3387266
Go big, or go home for some people, I guess.

>>3387266
We could always take over the church and slowly deify ourselves.

>>3387369
Lmao no we couldn't
Burial Agency would slap our shit.
I do look forward to Cid's utter WTF reaction if we do make the Age of Gods wish and he's still alive.

As your magic circuits fill with Caster's energy, you see a door open withing you. It looks out on the Void, that incomprehensible space where you first chose to take the coins' power into yourself. Now the energy flows through the door, into you, and you know intuitively that this is your trigger, the switch that will activate your circuits. As they hum into life, circulating the energy that was first yours, then Casters, and then returned to you, you open your eyes.

"So," Caster asks, "have you found your trigger?"

"Yes, I think so," you reply, "The activation of the circuits this time was different. It was like a door opening, letting the mystic energy move freely."

"Excellent," Caster exclaims, clapping her hands together in excitement, "I knew you had plenty of physical talent, but it seems you learn quickly as well! Now, see if you can return the circuits to their passive state without my help."

"Alright," you say, closing your eyes again and feeling for the circuits. You visualize and feel their pattern, and the energy circulating through you, and you will it to end. Commanding the energy within you to cease its motion, you take the door to the Void in mental hands and shut it. With the door closed, the room that is your body stills, and the heat that has filled your body fades away. "I've done it," you say, "it seems I can activate and deactivate my circuits without too much trouble. Now, let's move on to some more concrete-"

Suddenly, your vision goes hazy as a wave of lightheadedness sweeps through you. "Huh? I, uh..." As the power drains out of your body, you slump forward off the stool, barely managing to steady yourself and keep from falling to the stone floor.

"I won't be able to give you any more lessons tonight," Caster says, helping you keep your feet, "activating your circuits for the first time is quite a strain. Frankly, I'm impressed that you were able to do this much. Right now," she continues, walking you over to a Grecian couch in one corner of the room, "you should rest." As she lays you down, consciousness slips away. Though it's still early evening, it's been a long, long day...

End of Day 7

In your dream, you hold court in an ancient hall of marble, bronze, and wood, decorated with frescoes and sculpture. Weapons and armor line the walls, and the night's darkness is warded off by torches.

You're an old man, weathered by a long life of many trials, and the carved mahogany throne on which you sit seems to emphasize the myriad aches and pains that have come to live with you in your old age.

Listening as one of your ministers recounts the woes of fishermen beset by pirates, you find it difficult to keep your mind on his words and away from your younger days.

Then, though you truly wished to remain at home, you rarely passed an hour in this hall of state. You always found some calamity drawing you away, and could never exercise the duties of a king. It's only now, when memories consume you and you can hardly tolerate the mundane responsibilities of monarchy, that you are present to carry them out.

Your reverie is interrupted as a cry goes up. A warrior has come from the sea, a vicious raider who slaughters all in his path. He arrived alone in a tiny boat, and gave not a word of greeting, but leapt out upon landing and began to kill. This, at last, is a proper duty for a bored king!

You spring up, stringing your great bow and strapping a sword to your hip, and rush out to meet the attacker. Three times you fire at him from the palace balcony, and three times he deflects the arrows, striking them from the air with a strange weapon.

The warrior is tall, and lightly clad; with no armor, but only a robe of sea-green. His hair is red, and his ears come to strange points. He wields in his right hand a barbed rod of white, like a short spear, with prodigious speed, and none of your soldiers can match him. Whoever draws close, the barb strikes the gaps in their armor, weaving through the air as if alive.

You leap from the balcony, rushing at the foe. In your life you have never been bested, and surely this is to be the final martial triumph before you retire into decrepitude! As the redheaded foe strikes at you, you whip your blade to the side to cut the tip from his weapon, leaving him defenseless!

As you strike, however, the rod flexes. Too late, you recognize it as the bone of a ray, both pliant and tough. It snakes around your blade to pierce the soft flesh of your throat, and the poison of the barb stills your muscles. You fall to the rocky shore, no longer able to move.

"Treacherous king," the warrior speaks from above, as the life drains from you, "my hunt is over, for you've fallen by my hand. When we meet again, it will be in the next world." Then, as you watch, he leaps lightly into his ship and cuts through the waves, departing your realm in triumph. As your vision fades, you watch your blood stain the grey surf...

You awaken groggily, finding yourself back in your own room, the early morning sunlight peeking through the curtains. The pain and weakness that accompanied the first activation of your circuits have mercifully faded with the night's passing. Rising to bathe and dress, you consider the state of the War. With Saber, Lancer, and Assassin out of the question, only half of your enemies remain; aside from the enigmatic priest and his Servant, of course. All will need to be eliminated in time, but today you think it's best to...

>[ ] Hunt for the weakened Archer. In his current state, it may be possible for you and Caster to finish him off. (Pride)

>[ ] Assault Rider's ship. With his new Master, he's currently the only Servant other than Caster who's part of a working team. The most dangerous enemy should be destroyed first, you feel. (Duty)

>[ ] Make contact with Berserker. If you can eliminate her Master or convince her to betray him, Adelheid may well come over to your side, becoming an invaluable ally in the fight against Archer and Rider. (Self-Preservation/Compassion)

>[ ] Remain in the university to train your magical and martial abilities. Whatever the other Servants do is immaterial as long as you have a fortified base of operations. The most important thing for you to see to is your personal combat potential. (Self-Preservation/Duty)

>>3387417
>[ ] Remain in the university to train your magical and martial abilities. Whatever the other Servants do is immaterial as long as you have a fortified base of operations. The most important thing for you to see to is your personal combat potential. (Self-Preservation/Duty)

>>3387417
>[ ] Make contact with Berserker. If you can eliminate her Master or convince her to betray him, Adelheid may well come over to your side, becoming an invaluable ally in the fight against Archer and Rider. (Self-Preservation/Compassion)
As great as getting stronger would be, Rider isn't likely to stay put, and there's no guarantee he won't try to kill Berserker today.

>>3387417
>[ ] Make contact with Berserker. If you can eliminate her Master or convince her to betray him, Adelheid may well come over to your side, becoming an invaluable ally in the fight against Archer and Rider. (Self-Preservation/Compassion)
Ok
Something is definitely fucky with the dream cycle.
We should NOT be recounting Oddyseus' life.

>>3387417
>[ ] Remain in the university to train your magical and martial abilities. Whatever the other Servants do is immaterial as long as you have a fortified base of operations. The most important thing for you to see to is your personal combat potential. (Self-Preservation/Duty)
Caster can't do much in a fight against Archer, so it's up to us to pick up the slack

>>3387452
Nothing has changed from me wanting us to use the grail to ruin basically everything for the shitty modern magi.
We even have the memories (sort of) of a king from the Age of Gods, our victory is predestined.
Whatever Cid has planned our wish is far more malicious.
You know, unless he also wants to bring the Age of Gods back for whatever reason himself.
Then the final confrontation becomes incredibly awkward.

>>3387472
>We both want to bring back the gods
>the final battle goes from an epic contest between opposing viewpoints into two guys literally fighting for good boy points from the gods

>>3387472
So, is the wish you want to make literally "bring back the Age of the Gods" or do you have some specifics in mind?

>>3387501
I'm still mentally workshopping the best phrasing for it to actually work but...
Essentially, yes.

>>3387507
I mean, maybe phrasing it in such a way as to make Circe a goddess again would be better.

>>3387417
>>[ ] Make contact with Berserker. If you can eliminate her Master or convince her to betray him, Adelheid may well come over to your side, becoming an invaluable ally in the fight against Archer and Rider. (Self-Preservation/Compassion)

Are we going to be on a nickname basis?

>>3387528
I hope not, if this wins, for our sake.
I'm still on the fence but, if we do go with this, we need to explain to Caster that there are no other Servants capable of defeating Rider in a direct conflict.

>>3387528
Not if we want to live we won't be.
Have we even called Circe "Circe" once yet?

>>3387472
I'm still against the idea. It's an all-or-nothing gambit that really doesn't benefit us in any reasonable way.

The fact that we're seeing Odysseus' memories is a warning sign, not some omen that our victory is predestined. Not only does it mean that something is horribly wrong with whatever is going on in this grail war, Odysseus spent a decade of his life getting delayed from his goal by Poseidon and only made it because Poseidon only wanted to fuck with him for those 10 years. Not exactly a sure sign that we'll progress towards our victory.

Also remember that the Circe we have with us is just a shitty, watered-down copy of the actual Circe because that's how servants work. I don't think it's wise to turn a familiar into a literal god.

>>3387543
At this stage, there's pretty much no other servants period. Archer is sure to be a pain, but he's in deep shit right now and also our mortal enemy. Berserker is our only hope for getting help.

>>3387554
Hey fuck you.
Don't be rude to Circe.
Now I'm definitely doing all I can to make her a Goddess.
Unironically what is the worst that could happen.

>>3387564
Remember that one time when Berserker was singing Nibelungenlied?

That's the worst that could happen.

>>3387572
>*singing that reference to...
How did that not go through?

>>3387572
Coffee date with cute girls?
Nice!

>>3387564
The Counter Force. All of it. Aimed at our faces.

>>3387586
Counter Force can suck my dick, this is an artificial world (and we've rejected our humanity too)
By the time we make the wish it will be too late to change anything by killing us.

>>3387595
>By the time we make the wish it will be too late to change anything by killing us.
K Fuhrer-sama

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71 KB JPG

>>3387584
Don't be disingenuous, you dumbo, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

>>3387595
>this is an artificial world
But that's the problem. This world will come apart once whatever magecraft sustains it is destroyed.
There's also the possibility that we restore the Age of Gods and turn Circe into a goddess, but only in this artificial world which then collapses because it can't be sustained and who the fuck knows what happens to Circe then.

>>3387604
But the grail isn't dumb and we could just make sure it targets the world outside of the false one we're in.
It had no problem snatching us away, did it?

>>3387607
But the Grail IS dumb. That's why it has so many problems, like listening to Manjuice and not being able to do anything the user doesn't already know how to do.
The Grail isn't even what snatched everybody up. That was Cid.

>>3387615
If it can copy data from the Throne it can fuck with the world.
Regardless, if we want to do this we have one of the greatest magi in existence to aid us in creating the perfect phrasing for the wish.

>>3387624
Oh right, and if there's a n y o n e, who would know how to restart the Age of Gods, it would be Circe, probably.
So many factors have perfectly aligned for us to be able to make this wish
>we're modified to an extent that we no longer count as human so Alaya probably doesn't know what the fuck is up with us
>we're in an artificial world that likely has no way to be left or be entered until the war is over
>we summoned an Ex-Goddess, one of the few who likely have the knowledge of how to make the Age of Gods actually occur once more
It's a once in a hundred lifetimes opportunity, even if it goes poorly, we'll have made every single magus on the entire planet screech in incoherent rage and fear at the same time.
And that's worth the price.

>>3387624
But it can't copy data from the throne. That's why magi have to promise the Heroic Spirits that they'll get a wish. Heroic Spirits can outright reject summoning otherwise. What fucks with the world isn't the Grail itself but the user, presuming said user actually know hows to actually accomplish their goal.
It doesn't matter that we have a great magus if we just, y'know, don't want to do this. There's just no benefit to us. We either a) succeed and become practically irrelevant as a being or b) fail and get annihilated.
Wording also doesn't really matter because the grail doesn't care about wording since it can't really grant wishes. It pokes a hole.

>>3387662
Even if we presume it's possible, I just don't see the point. Trying to restart the Age of Gods can only be detrimental to Rushorou. And make all mages screech? Just... why? We've met two - Sean and Truvi - and have no reason to hate them that much.
I don't really see any reason to do this aside from the fact that we "can" (again presuming that we actually can), and in general, doing stuff because you "can" is pretty stupid. For example, we can kill Matsuda in his sleep tonight. But it's a stupid idea.

>>3387698
Yeah, we've basically stopped putting ourselves in Rushorou's shoes and thinking meta.

>>3387706
*and started thinking meta

>>3387698
The thing is, even if we win this war, we'd still be irrelevant compared to a lot of the big boys.
If we brought the gods back, it's possible we might still be irrelevant, but damn it if they don't think we're the coolest human ever.
Besides, if it goes perfectly we'd be a magus that has the total support of an actual Goddess of Magic.
As opposed to a magus with a Caster Servant, which is pretty impressive I guess.
Also bringing back the Age of Gods will appease Gaia, who is on the constant verge of a human eradicating spergeout because of their rapid expansionism and growth.

>>3387706
>>3387711
To be fair shit like Alaya not being a problem won't even cross Rushorou's mind.
Nor will the idea of Alaya existing.
This wish, if it gets made, relies solely on what Caster tells us about the Age of Gods and how much she romanticizes it.
So far we know that humans are incompetent and managed to ruin magic taught by gods by being stupid.

>>3387729
>Yumigawa surmised that gods can only exist in the Age of Gods because there are none running around in the Age of Man
>Knows that Circe used to be a god
>Has enough [COMPASSION] to want to help the people close to him but not enough to think about some randos he doesn't know about
I'd say there's a motive to do it already. It needs some reinforcing, that's all.

>>3387716
>>3387729
>>3387740
It also relies on Rushorou either having little to no knowledge of mythology or deciding the world would somehow benefit from the reintroduction of beings who act basically like humans who have their flaws cranked up to 11 and constantly abuse their power. Greek mythology alone is an absolute clusterfuck, and if Rushorou knows anything about it he wouldn't be too keen to revive that sort of being.

>>3387761
I don't know...
Circe is pretty nice...

>>3387761
>It also relies on Rushorou either having little to no knowledge of mythology
Check
>Greek mythology alone is an absolute clusterfuck
Luckily, nobody worships them anymore so when they come back they won't be gods anymore. I'm hoping.

Sweets, care to confirm that?

>>3387785
Honestly, we have no idea what the fuck will happen if we make the wish.
If other gods do return who knows?
With all the divine favour we'd get from it if other Gods also managed to return we'd probably end up with A+++ or EX luck or something.

>>3387777
Right. That's why she turned her romantic rival into Scylla and gave us food to turn us into a pig at our first meeting. Because that's what nice people do.

>>3387785
We've seen Circe's past in a few dreams, and have also seen a little bit of Odysseus' past for some reason. But if we reintroduce the Age of Gods, it makes that we would eventually get more gods who are similar to the gods the last time we had an Age of Gods - that is, deeply flawed assholes who like to throw their weight around.

>>3387800
To be fair we in character have no idea that that food was the transformation type.
And fuck if we'll ever find out.
Dealing with people for getting in your way is just what you're supposed to do though?

>>3387800
>But if we reintroduce the Age of Gods, it makes that we would eventually get more gods who are similar to the gods the last time we had an Age of Gods
I don't see it myself.
I've already explained my reasoning. What's yours?

>>3387800
>deeply flawed assholes who like to throw their weight around
So they're just like the general mage community

>>3387777
>>3387800
Fun fact - abusing hospitality, either as a host or as a guest, was one of the worst possible sins in ancient Greece. Circe feeding people pig transformation food makes her an awful person by her society's standards. Rushorou doesn't know that so it won't affect how he sees things, but I just thought I would share.

>>3387805
I've already explained mine, too - simply by the fact that we're restarting an Age of Gods, and you can't have one of those without gods. If Circe regains her divinity, I don't see why she would be the only one who can regain or can gain new divinity in the new age. It's not like people worship Circe either, after all.

>>3387818
At least the Gods aren't all trying to plot how to tear reality a new asshole every 15 seconds.

>>3387825
>I've already explained mine, too - simply by the fact that we're restarting an Age of Gods, and you can't have one of those without gods.
We already have gods ready to jump in.
>It's not like people worship Circe either, after all.
Then we'll have to fix that, won't we?
So how will we do that? We could form a cult around her, which will result in her return -- even if our Servant is gone there's a Heroic Spirit on the Throne that'll remember us, and that one will become a god.

>>3387825
You know I don't think Rushorou "Victory is all that matters, how I achieve it doesn't matter!" Yumigawa would care either way about hospitality rules.
He is complicit with literal fucking super brainwashing, after all.

The next time we get the chance we should have everyone exchange phone numbers, so we can all keep in touch after the war ends.
Also so we can laugh at Truvi for not having a phone.

>>3387836
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kY-pUxKQMUE
It doesn't matter if we can or can't or how we'll fix this or that. It's a bad idea with little to no benefit for Rushorou or anyone he knows. The exception is perhaps Circe presuming that we manage to engineer things perfectly. Then MAYBE Rushorou if the original Circe sees us as anything more than a character in a book she read since that's the closest analogy for how Heroic Spirits store the information they receive from their summoned copies.
The only real motivator I can see here is the players' desire, not Rushorou's, to jump on an opportunity to fuck with the world based on lore and theorization that Rushorou himself doesn't have any knowledge of or interest in.

>>3387838
It doesn't really matter since Rushorou will never know. I just thought I should mention it since Circe is really only nice to Rushorou and nobody else.

>>3387892
Now this is a fun idea. However, I suggest we wait so as not to piss Truvi off since she's currently still feeling awful about losing Lancer.

>>3387908
Well, I suppose I can't convince you.
In that case let's just agree to disagree and let the votes decide it when it comes to that.

>>3387908
Well, if it fits in character by Rushorou finding out more about the world.
Right now we know that
>gods used to walk among us
>magic was better back in the day
So not massive reasons to do it so far. But still a reason.
We can ask Circe more about the Age of Gods later on.

'Today' you think as you shower, 'the best thing to do would be to make contact with Berserker. If I can cement an alliance with her, we should have enough firepower to take down Rider or Archer without trouble. The question is, will Adelheid be wandering the city again, or must I deal with her Master?'

With the day's course laid out ahead of you, you dress. Yesterday's cream suit was much better at mitigating the summer heat of the Eighth City than your previous clothing, and you pick another like it. Then you head down to the dining hall to see when breakfast will be had.

The large room proves to contain two inhabitants, locked in a heated argument: Truvietianne and Kikuko. Seeing them before they notice you, you decide to hang back just outside of the room, taking advantage of the shadowed corridor to listen in on their conversation.

"If you had so little attachment to the Holy Grail as to simply give up when captured, why on earth did you betray us in the first place?" Truvietianne shouts indignantly.

"We~ll," Kikuko replies, drawing out the syllable as she thinks, "it's not like I came up with the plan, you know? It was, like, all Archer and Keiseki-oji-san. I've just, like, been trying to survive. I mean this whole place is totally crazy, you know? People are just dying constantly, and I didn't want to end up like that, and Archer seemed like he totally knew what was up!"

"I see," Truvietianne sighs, laying her head in her hands, "this war truly has been filled with convictionless morons."

"Hey!" Kikuko exclaims; now its her turn to be indignant. "Just because I'm not, like, coming up with plans to kill people all the time, that doesn't make me some kinda idiot! Like, we're supposed to be summoning heroes, right? So why should a normal girl like me be better at this kinda thing than a hero, huh?"

"That doesn't mean," Truvietianne says, leaning forward in anger with palms flat on the table, "that you shouldn't at least try! We're supposed to be Masters! You can't just let your Servant tell you what to do!"

Kikuko breaks into a malicious smirk as she answers, "I don't think you've got, like, much room to comment, you know? Your dumb method got your Servant killed, but my Archer's still out there even after I'm, like, out of the running! I bet the only reason you've managed to live this long is because you found Yumigawa-kun to protect you."

"Ooh!" Truvietianne lets out a huff of incoherent rage, "you little simpleton! How dare you speak to me that way, when you're nothing but a prisoner! My alliance with Yumigawa-kun was an equal partnership! Just because my Servant happened to die first, that doesn't mean I was just following him around being protected!"

"Huh," Kikuko says with an acid tone of sarcastic realization, "I guess a rich girl like you is, like, so used to being coddled and taken care of, you don't even notice it anymore! Kyahahahaha~!"

Assaulted by Kikuko's mocking laughter, Truvietianne's face turns a shocking color as her fury continues to intensify. Beyond all restraint, the girl pulls a hand back, winding up to slap Kikuko.

>[ ] Step in and mitigate the fight. (Pride/Compassion)

>[ ] Quietly exit the scene. Go looking for someone else in the university. (Write in who you want to see) (Self-Preservation)

>>3388110
>[ ] Step in and mitigate the fight. (Pride/Compassion)
Ladies, please, I'm taken

>>3388110
>[ ] Step in and mitigate the fight. (Pride/Compassion)

Tell kikuko to stop antagonizing Truviet. Take some small measure of blame for walking into a somewhat well thought out ambush; but point out that Truviet is right. This is (not was) an equal partnership. Then get Truviet's opinion on our plan to try to convince Berserker to assist us in MURDERING that dick face Archer and Rider. Infom Trivet that Rider has a new master.

>>3388110
>[ ] Step in and mitigate the fight. (Pride/Compassion)
"And, just, what might you two be doing?"
We will not allow infighting.

>>3388110
>[ ] Step in and mitigate the fight. (Pride/Compassion)
First, stop Truvi's hand and remind her that we both know she's above lashing out like that. Then >>3388129 but also point out at an appropriate time that you can't really blame someone for not wanting to be killed.

Since we know Kikuko's past, we could hit her right now with how she's let people coddle her her entire life including this world and war, but let's not do that now.

Before Truvietianne can finish the motion, you interpose yourself between the two girls, walking up to the side of the table and catching her by the wrist. "Miss Edelfelt," you say, voice soft and flat, "aren't you better than to strike someone over such a trivial argument?"

The furious girl lets out an indignant gasp, turning to see you. "Y-Yumigawa-kun?" She stamps on your foot under the table, her high-heel digging into you, before pulling her hand from your grasp and composing herself, "of course, you're right," she says, "physical violence would be below my dignity."

"Of course," you reply dryly, and then turn to Kikuko. "Munahara, stop provoking Miss Edelfelt," you order, "it may be true that we were mistaken in walking into your ambush, but right now you're both without Servants. Neither of you has any room to criticize. Besides," you continue, "the alliance between myself and Miss Edelfelt was and is one of equals. Even with Lancer gone, I still value her strategic input."

"Oka~y," Kikuko answers, "whatever you say, Yumigawa-kun."

Concluding that the matter of conflict between Truvietianne and Kikuko is resolved, you sit down in another chair, opposite Truvietianne. "On the subject of your input," you say, "I'd like your opinion on my next move in the war."

"Oh?" Truvietianne replies, meeting your eyes suspiciously, "You'd still like my advice, even after I've been removed from the War?"

"That's right," you say, "you're a skilled magus, and an intelligent girl. That's reason enough to seek your advice, if you're willing to give it."

At your words, Truvietianne's spirits visibly rise, and her already considerable chest seems to swell with pride. "In that case," she says, "by all means, tell me about your plight."

"You see," you begin, "the other day, I met with Berserker outside of the university. Fortunately, she was without her Master, and I was able to keep the matter peaceful. During our discussion, she revealed to me that she's unsatisfied with her current Master; apparently the man has no courage, and spends all his time drinking at the hotel where they're staying."

"What a loser," Kikuko remarks, giggling, "you two saw her using him as a footstool when we first met Rider, right? It was, like, super hilarious!"

You'd actually forgotten the affair, but now that Kikuko's prompted it, the mental image returns; it's a bit off-putting, frankly. "Er, yes," you reply. "At any rate, Berserker seemed to approve of my abilities as a Master. I think it may be possible to convince her to become my Servant, along with Caster; with the two working together, it would be much easier to handle Archer and Rider. Your thoughts?"

As soon as the words are out of your mouth, Truvietianne leaps to her feet in shock, shouting, "you want to have two Servants at once?" Flushing, she takes a moment to compose herself and return to her seat before continuing in a more normal tone, "that's ridiculous. It's totally impossible. There's no magus with that much mystic energy! I mean, haven't you felt how much energy it takes just to maintain one Servant?"

"Not really," you answer, "I wasn't a magus before this, after all, so it's not like I can really feel the absence of something I never learned to use anyway. So, there's no hope for it then?" you ask, disappointment beginning to fill you at the missed opportunity.

"Huh," the girl muses, "I suppose that does explain why you're so cavalier about Caster's magic use. Let me put it simply. The general amount of energy a magus can use is determined by their number of magic circuits, right? An average magus from a decent lineage has about twenty circuits. I, on the other hand, being descended from the ancient Edelfelt lineage of magic, have fifty-three. Now, if you wanted to sustain two Servants at once, you'd need over a hundred magic circuits! I't just not possible."

"So it's just a quantity problem, huh," you mutter, relieved. You'd been worried Truvietianne was right, and it really was impossible, but it seems your empowerment by the pseudo-grail is coming in handy once again. "Well, thanks for the information, Miss Edelfelt." Having resolved the girls' fight and gotten Truvietianne's feedback on your plan, you've done about everything you might need to here. You decide to...

>[ ] Make a polite exit and go looking for Caster, Matsuda, or Ogawara. (Write in who)

>[ ] Stay here and continue talking with Truvietianne and/or Kikuko. (Write in subject)

>[ ] Go for a walk in the gardens.

>[ ] Do something else. (Write in)

>>3388322
>[ ] Stay here and continue talking with Truvietianne and/or Kikuko. (Our magecraft capability with Truvietianne)
I mean...
We're gonna have to tell her eventually.
And otherwise she'll think we're a fucking retard for going after Berserker anyway.
Then we'll STILL have to explain it if we are successful at our plan.

>>3388322
>I't just not possible
Fuck. Just noticed this. Should say It's just not possible.

>>3388322
I support >>3388329
Also throwing in that rider is still in the fight with a new master. (I cant remember if we told her we killed riders master or not)

>>3388329
>>3388350
Supporting both of these.

We should probably make it a point that he isn't going to let us near his new Master, after killing his old one, so we see no other way of defeating him.

It's not a point to them but to a most definite third party observer.

Also
>you'd need over a hundred magic circuits! I't just not possible.
> I, on the other hand, being descended from the ancient Edelfelt lineage of magic, have fifty-three
You know, it's possible magecraft is deteriorating quite rapidly in the modern era.
Considering that Rin and Luvia both had 100 or so with their Crests.
And Truvi here is talking like that shit is impossible.
Unless Truvi doesn't have a Crest. If magecraft is dying that's just another reason to bring back those cool Gods.
And one more possibility to consider.
Alaya might see us as something that needs to not exist regardless of our actions due to our nature.
But that's pure speculation.

>>3388384
Maybe she just didn't include her Crest in the count. She might have 100 with that Crest and be telling us that we can't get a second Servant because we don't.
I doubt she would want to reveal important secrets about herself in the open.

>>3388406
Maybe.
Maybe.
It's possible she doesn't have it or something happened to the Edelfelt crest though.

>>3388329
>>3388322
Support.

>Kikuko is gonna go around and fuck with our allies, potentially destabilizing our whole setup
Goddamnit all, leaving such a shit girl walking around will be the end of us yet.

>>3388431
It's fine, we'll just have to see if Ogawara can't get himself a waifu.
Might fix her attitude, if he manages it.

>>3388409
>It's possible she doesn't have it
If she's not the heir, she won't have it.
>something happened to the crest
I would hope not.

>>3388431
There's literally no reason at all to keep her around anymore.

>>3388511
We have to keep her away from Archer till he dies, numbnuts

>>3388511
She's only a minor problem.
Also she's still loyal to us, even if she's problematic. It's experience for dealing with problematic yet loyal subjects in the future.
And I'd rather not kill the idiot girl unless we have to.