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>>1982090
The THINK TANK, apply their minds to the UFO. Dr. 8 and Dr. Dala returning to work as well.

They analyze the damaged dampener shield drive, and with the help of Dr. 8 who has a degree in "quantum harmonics", through a series of theories and hypothesis not only reverse engineer the drive, but apply some of their own BigMT science to it!

The "Inertial Dampener Field" has a curious side effect in that it not only provides an intense (kinetic) Damage Resistance, but also slightly bends light around itself. Using the technologies in the X-13 research facility and the X-8 lightwave dynamics facility, they apply some of the very same technology used in the Stealth Suit Mk2, making it much more transparent and as a better result, more difficult to track by conventional radar.

An interesting, and wholly unintended side effect is, er, well:

>Dr 0
"Whoops, looks like we forgot to leave out the personality matrix program function Dr. Mobius put in the original. My bad!"

>UFO
"Inertial Dampener Activated. Now no one can watch us when we're alone together."

>>1986498
Thats ok, as long as it smartly automates the systems itself.

On the topic, do the think tank think the UFO has a reasonable chance to get to Hawaii, knowing what they do about the islands?

Also, do they have any input on the reactor or the replicator tech (would the boon help make the energy price comparable with the metal replication, that is to say make it cheap enough to be the main source of resources)?

>>1986508
The sisintigrator tech we have right now is pretty optimized. A boon on it now would not be the best use of it.

>>1986515
Its expensive enough to be shit without the fuckhuge fusion plant. If this combo allows us to circumvent "normal" resources then thats ok and we can save the boon. If not, we need to make it better to be able to fill this role.

Keep in mind that when we can reliably and constantly turn rocks into robots we can not only splurge on fancy nanoscale transistor tech but alien metal, complex weapons and so on. Basically get all the fancy tech for the price of "normal" tech. Essentially a game changer, limiting us only by the quality of the blueprint, not the resources available.

>>1986508
>Also, do they have any input on the reactor or the replicator tech (would the boon help make the energy price comparable with the metal replication, that is to say make it cheap enough to be the main source of resources)?
They already improved the reactor but I think we'd need to have a dedicated action to refine the replicators as a concept.

But ok, going to sleep. Dont waste the boon on soething we could accomplish normally and keep pushing for the replicator to be as good as advertised.

GN

>>1986546
I only want to use it to make sure we get shit done, e,g if we roll low on Hawaii I'd want to use it to ensure success.

Night lad.

>>1986536
We can circumvent resource with the model we have. It can use dirt and rocks, just add power. We wont be able to ever get rid of the power need, because physics.

>>1986562
Essentially this. We have to expend energy disintegrating matter into basic particles to then form into whatever we're making.

The only other method is direct energy-to-matter creation but that is even more expensive in terms of power but has the benefit of being quicker.

>Robotic Research
>General robotics enhancements. Let Dr. 0 take a look at all of our designs and generally just try and make them better.

>Dr 0
"Securitrons. You just HAD to pick securitrons as the basis for your army didn't you. Well, at least this new factory is an upgrade to my deconstruction plant. Lemme take a whack at it."

"I used to hate these things. I still do, but actually I'm kinda bored with them now.

The MKV was the best we could do with the technology of our Era. Lemme take a crack at it."

Dr. 0 has broken through your previous limitations, and invented the Securitron MKVI! This one CAN use a modified version of the Berserketron program, without destroying itself, and is much lighter able to afford more armor or heavier weapons!

Just spend an action to retrofit your existing models.

"Alright, that should about do it. I've used our replicators and some of the alien metal to improve the wiring and circuitry, making them 100% more efficient. Different models will be easier to make now, without significantly increasing cost.

I could take a crack at some of the other robots as well, though some direction would be nice. The Zax CEO's Loader Bots seem interesting to me."

>>1986636
What sort of personality is this AI of Mobius?

>>1986636
I was hoping he could look at the others, But i guess only 1 design per turn.

>>1986695
Eh, still pretty good seeing as we'd started to run out of shit for our robotics research to do.

>>1986695
Its easier for your scientists to work when they have a general direction or something to point them to. The more specific the better.

>>1986652
Clingy with a bad sense of humor.
It is The stealth suit mrk 2 intelligence

>>1986717
I don't even remember what the fuck designs we have bothte Tank bot and Secrution. Anon's wasted so much research on other stuff.

>>1986725
so... perfect?

also please dont waste a boon on shit we can get just by increasing our energy reserves.

things to use a boon on

>chinese hot fusion
>transcontinental railgun based mega artillery
>the platinum chip
>Secret backdoor codes to the Hawaii base

etc.

>Brain
"Research is often driven by need rather than as a vaccuum, or else you'll get things like that dog brain based minigun. Its not that, with the brilliance of our Geniuses and the vast computers and scientists we posses, we are running out of ideas or hitting a ceiling.

Its easier to move ahead when you know what direction that is."

>>1986729
An anon did work on compiling various blueprints though I forgot which google doc it was in.

I'd archive binge through SupTG and Ctrl+f any "blueprint" word. Archived.moe/tg would be better, but its so slow and has ads to hell and back.

>>1986732
Platinum chip or back door codes would be the best use.

>>1986717
Qm, does 0 have no idea how to progress with the platinum chip, even now? House had to have poached a pretty skilled contemporary for it. So he would know who's work would likely have gonw into making it.

>>1986732
>transcontinental railgun based mega artillery
>Secret backdoor codes to the Hawaii base

uh..what? Only the Chinese Hot fusion and the Platinum chip is worth it.

>>1986765
Hawaii is certainly worth it but I must agree, "mega artillery" ain't useful unless we have the forces to hold them in place.

>>1986771
Hawaii is something we were planning to slip into anyway. The Plat chip requires us to get House or somehow the factory it was made at, and the Hot fusion requires us to GO to china if i remember correctly.

>>1986781
His point with the codes for Hawaii was to make it easy as hell to secure. As codes just allowing us to land on the island, let alone get inside the pre-war base, would certainly simplify things.

>>1986781
Going to China might be something we'll have to do or have an interest to do at some point. I think the Plat Chip is the best option. Or perhaps we can build our city, or save it for a Nat 1, or start colonization, or use it to find a weakness in Elijah. Or maybe we can use this boon to create a fucking spy satelite. Or MAYBE we can use it to establish control over the Enclave again. There are many things we can do with that Boon.

>>1986786
But we've been over this last time, The entire island and chain isn't gonna be locked down, And it'll be like any other base raid. Now the Chip, Thats worth it. THink of how small everyhting would suddenly become. Might even make teh XAT better.

>>1986835
And last time we didn't reach any sort of agreement on what you are saying.

As to the chip being worth it? Certainly it would be useful. Do I think one boon will get us it? Not even close.

>>1986755
the chip was made in Sunnyvale before the war.

it is revolutionary even by pre war standards. utterly impossible to recreate even with replicators as they are now.

Basically the only way is to get House.which means conquering New Vegas and hoping Cesaer didnt off him.
Or getting Sunnyvale and praying the bombs didnt annihilate it. of course its deep in california.

>>1986781
Hot fusion information might be present in Chinese files or known about by the Shi. But realistically its go to china or nothing.

I would argue the Beryllium Agitator is a viable alternative

>>1986893
Problem with that is we'd need a good supply of Beryllium or for every reactor to be insanely productive.

>>1986867
I'd rather just take New Vegas. We need to start expanding, but I don't think anyone wants to go to war yet, besides me

>>1986906
Going to war right now would be suicide.

>>1986964
Yes, but eventually.

>>1986964
And that's probably why we're gonna wait, but eventually we need to pick sides, and it seems the unofficial consensus was that we would save the NCR for last

>>1986966
I agree to conquering Vegas sometime in the future but I'd want us to control Hawaii, Montana, Texas and a few other territories like the "unclaimed" area of Utah or Florida.

>>1987009
I feel that the NCR must fall first assuming we must choose a side beyond what we already have as they are the greatest threat to us but if I get outvoted I'll deal with it.

>>1987024
Well it would be nice putting it to an actual vote, but the idea was that we would be the only ones that could deal with the NCR humanely

>>1987024
If they may pose the greatest threat, but our relationship is cordial, so we can take the time to grow before picking a fight with them.

>>1987032
And my argument has always been based on everything ignoring the "humanity" of our conquests. If nothing else, because the fact is war is war and we are dealing with war crimes supported by the people on all sides so it becomes far easier and clearer to just imagine raw numbers of troops, growth rates and so on.


The NCR ain't moral. The NCR is very, very far from it. I know people feel we shouldn't allow them or their people to suffer but I see no reason to spare them from suffering when they would cause suffering to others as well as because I feel they'd be a better conquest short term than the MLA or Legion. The NCR is our biggest threat: they are advancing technologically; they can outproduce us; they have a strong culture; they have a similar society (which makes them a competitor). They've done massive things in these last few years even compared to our massive achievements and that is only what we have seen.


If we had another half a decade or so to work and build? I'd be more gungho to leave them for last since our portals make expanding outside of the US easy but we don't. We have a year or two before the NCR probably gets to post-WW 2 tech for the average troop. Assuming they don't jump straight to pre-war grade stuff or even beyond.

The MLA and the Legion seem like far less of a threat to me. So I advise using them as stepping stones to get stronger by conquering the NCR and then the Legion and then the MLA. Because the simple fact is that we can outdo them without issue assuming we have another half a decade to work with and they don't fuck us over in the peace deal and shit.

>>1987082
I know but should it ever be the case that the MLA-Legion start pushing into the NCR seriously and we can't stabilise it without openly helping the NCR? I want to be on the winning side and take our share at the peace deal. To paraphrase Mussolini: "Only a few thousand must die so that I may sit at the peace conference as one who fought".

I don't want to go into war until we really need to as every turn we aren't in war is another turn our people can focus on civilian efforts: expansion of industry, cultural development and so on.

>>1987178
If the NCR is the final boss, the biggest threat, you usually build up to it by taking out the easier people to gather resources and allies, not go for the hardest one right away

>>1987178
Using the Legion and MLA as stepping stones means slaughtering them first, and using their assets for our purposes.

And as far as it seems, the NCR is doing well. They seem like the Winning side as far as we know. If we wanted to join the winning side, we should do what mussolini did and side with Hitler, the guy who is more similiar than different.

>>1986867
>Brain
"I have to admit, it seems impossible even for me. But, the Think Tank are the masters of the impossible are they not?

The ZAX predicted it would take many years of computerized labour to reverse engineer the chip. But perhaps they could be able to shorten it.

Dr 0 might not be the likes of Mr. House, but five of the Think Tank put together. . .perhaps it might not take as long.

Alternatively we get more Supercomputers on the problem."

>>1987197
Assuming you are fighting alone? Agreed.

If you can get the help of those people (MLA / Legion) you'd otherwise be trying to conquer? You should attempt to take advantage of their strength to make up for your own weakness. Especially if you know that the final boss is getting stronger over time and with every person you help them kill.

>>1987255
>Using the Legion and MLA as stepping stones means slaughtering them first, and using their assets for our purposes.
I don't know how but you completely misread everything I wrote yet still knew who I was talking about. I was talking about ALLYING them not killing them. At least, not until after the NCR.

>And as far as it seems, the NCR is doing well. They seem like the Winning side as far as we know.
Wait until after the attack on Boomtown. Also you seemingly missed the part where I want to remain neutral until a clear winner (that isn't the NCR) is seen or we are strong enough to actually matter to the NCR / to oppose the Legion / MLA attack from the Divide and shit.

>If we wanted to join the winning side, we should do what Mussolini did and side with Hitler, the guy who is more similar than different.
Not really. Seeing as our goal is to essentially be the biggest and most powerful nation. Simple fact is that the NCR is a competitor in this regard and more importantly they are going the same shtick as us so they saturate the "market".

>>1987305
Are you saying taking down both the MLA and Legion, maybe even the Brotherhood is gonna be easy? What's your plan then

>>1987324
heres an idea.

genuinely help the MLA take over the NCR. We can probably seize their airfield the boneyard and some of southern cali ourselves.

we are a LOT nicer than the NCR will be expecting. no rapes. no crucifixion. free medicine, lots of food. Less than the usual number of horrible atrocities.

then, when the NCR is pulverized team up with our buddy niner to kill everyone else.

But we should take care of elijah first because hes a slippery fuck liable to murder us all.

>>1987305
>I don't know how but you completely misread everything I wrote yet still knew who I was talking about. I was talking about ALLYING them not killing them. At least, not until after the NCR.
I'm just saying, using people as a stepping stone generally means dealing with them first before moving on to bigger things. You might have used the wrong idiom.

>Wait until after the attack on Boomtown. Also you seemingly missed the part where I want to remain neutral until a clear winner (that isn't the NCR) is seen or we are strong enough to actually matter to the NCR / to oppose the Legion / MLA attack from the Divide and shit.
Why wait until a winner who isn't the NCR? why not side with the winning team while we can, instead of getting tied up in an even slugging match?

>Not really. Seeing as our goal is to essentially be the biggest and most powerful nation. Simple fact is that the NCR is a competitor in this regard and more importantly they are going the same shtick as us so they saturate the "market".
Everyone is a competitor in that regard, so it's not that great of an excuse. And I don't get what you mean about saturating the market.

>>1987362
If we can make the legion and MLA abide by those rules of no rape or crucifixion too, then I'd support it

>>1987324
>Are you saying taking down both the MLA and Legion, maybe even the Brotherhood is gonna be easy?
Compared to the NCR? Yes. Although I'd say that the Brotherhood is probably the second strongest, then the MLA and then the Legion.

>What's your plan then
The Legion ain't an issue. This is an objective fact made clear by their vulnerability to various methods of weakening them thanks to their lack of technology.

Given their reliance on blood to rapidly heal front-line troops, a biological weapon designed to contaminate blood and induce blindness would certainly weaken them long term depending on it's spread. As to actual direct combat measures: between our drone aircraft and the Tankitron heat beam, we can easily annihilate their armies thanks to their reliance on humans / biological units that are vulnerable to thermal weapons. If all else fails, Bastion units would prove highly effective in the case that their armour proves sufficient to block thermal attacks.


As to the MLA: they are reliant on a salvaging from the battlefield various things to maintain their forces which given many of our robots can be made to self-detonate on death (MK 6 Securitron software which we can now safely use (>>1986636) does this as standard on death) and that we would not be vulnerable to exhaustion like the NCR (robots can just keep pushing) means that they'd lack salvage to construct, maintain or repair vehicles.

Back such things up with an air-force (the reason they no longer use large vehicles is the NCR's limited and outdated air-force, imagine what we could achieve?), our ability to strike their subterranean centres and our general superior ability to manufacture (as they have stated) and we would be able to do what the BOS are doing but faster and push them back in a constant wave of robots.

Accounting for dark god influence is hard but using the 100 slaves for 1 near supermutant strong (buff (important: they are still near the max capacity of them rather than being this strong while looking like a noodle)) human as a assessment we reach the realisation that given our main force is entirely robotic and could probably overpower such individuals (if we wanted them to), they fail to do more than delay defeat.


>>1987362
Essentially my plan. I want everything south of the NCR airbase up to the Legion border but seeing as the Legion probably wouldn't agree, I'd ask they let us keep what we capture. Then when the MLA-Legion alliance shatters we roll through the Legion and take everything we want there. Then we sit back, build up and then push out further once more.

>But we should take care of elijah first because hes a slippery fuck liable to murder us all.
Agreed. Nukes from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

>>1987367
>I'm just saying, using people as a stepping stone generally means dealing with them first before moving on to bigger things. You might have used the wrong idiom.
Fair enough, I couldn't think of the right idiom.

>Why wait until a winner who isn't the NCR? Why not side with the winning team while we can, instead of getting tied up in an even slugging match?
Because the NCR has less of a reason to reward us for helping them whereas the MLA are entirely willing and able without being so much stronger as to be able to lose our support.

>Everyone is a competitor in that regard, so it's not that great of an excuse.
Except if we were all car manufacturers: the MLA are hot rods, the BOS are vans and the Legion are microcars. Meanwhile the NCR and us? We occupy the same market because we are offering our citizens the same product.

>And I don't get what you mean about saturating the market.
The NCR is too similar to us so it's harder to use our position to attract people that our lifestyle appeals to.


>>1987382
Then you ain't going to end up supporting it.

>>1987389
Nuclear weapons against Elijah would probably be ineffective due to the depth of the vaults in Sierra Madre. However an Intercontinental ballistic missile sized pulse Warhead may knock out enough of his electronic systems that invading would be easier

We can then capture him and extract his fucking brain

>>1987389
If the Legion is no issue, then we should go after them instead of picking a fight with the goliath that is the bear.
Then the MLA, then we recover, rebuild and finally turn on the NCR. That way we don't end up over our heads, like getting into a war with the NCR will do.

Especially since with our weapons we can make a lot of gains compared to what we can make against the NCR. Long term, siding with the NCR is both less risk, and more reward.

>>1987382
That is an impossible requirement.

>>1987402
>Because the NCR has less of a reason to reward us for helping them whereas the MLA are entirely willing and able without being so much stronger as to be able to lose our support.
Saving their general's life, providing military aid, helping defeat their enemies? The NCR will not betray us while the war is going on, and the once the war is finished, would have little reason to distrust us.

>Except if we were all car manufacturers: the MLA are hot rods, the BOS are vans and the Legion are microcars. Meanwhile the NCR and us? We occupy the same market because we are offering our citizens the same product.
Except the NCR is not selling to a majority of people- Everyone not ethnically californian is scum who die. Very few of those outside of california.

>The NCR is too similar to us so it's harder to use our position to attract people that our lifestyle appeals to.
We won't be gaining people through immigration for the most part, but conquest. So it's different. And in the end, we take down the NCR anyways, so in the end, its no big deal.

>>1987431
This, the NCR can be seen as a bully, but they haven't turned on an ally yet

>>1987405
Agreed.

>>1987407
>If the Legion is no issue, then we should go after them instead of picking a fight with the goliath that is the bear.
The Legion are allies of the MLA. War with either of them is war with the other which we can't win with anything approaching our current capacity.

>Then the MLA, then we recover, rebuild and finally turn on the NCR. That way we don't end up over our heads, like getting into a war with the NCR will do.
Yeah and during the years after fighting the MLA, the NCR completely outgrows us and proceeds to just outgrow our asses like fuck. Leaving us a minor nation at best.

>Especially since with our weapons we can make a lot of gains compared to what we can make against the NCR. Long term, siding with the NCR is both less risk, and more reward.
It really isn't.

>>1987431
>Saving their general's life, providing military aid, helping defeat their enemies?
Ignoring the general, I'd point out that we are of far less value to the NCR than the MLA-Legion as I have already explained repeatedly.

>The NCR will not betray us while the war is going on, and the once the war is finished, would have little reason to distrust us.
Woop de doo. How in the hell is that going to get us anywhere near as much land and resources as the alternative and why would we ever do the route that results in the NCR getting even stronger.

>Except the NCR is not selling to a majority of people- Everyone not ethnically californian is scum who die. Very few of those outside of california.
Nope: the Frontier, the Shi and all their other holdings imply that they don't give two shits so long as you are civilised. E,g not a raider or tribal.

>We won't be gaining people through immigration for the most part, but conquest. So it's different. And in the end, we take down the NCR anyways, so in the end, its no big deal.
Except I feel that you are severely underestimating the NCR's growth and advancement. Another decade and we will be behind in many areas, I promise you.

>>1987444
And? They turned on their own people and destroyed their tribal reservations and such.

>>1987498
>The Legion are allies of the MLA. War with either of them is war with the other which we can't win with anything approaching our current capacity.
We may not be able to win alone, but if we're supporting the NCR, we can make plenty of gains.'

>Yeah and during the years after fighting the MLA, the NCR completely outgrows us and proceeds to just outgrow our asses like fuck. Leaving us a minor nation at best.
Our growth potential is so much greater than the NCR, especially since the NCR will be killing a lot of the people we would be integrating. NCR growth will plateau soon.

>It really isn't.
It really is.

>Ignoring the general, I'd point out that we are of far less value to the NCR than the MLA-Legion as I have already explained repeatedly.
We're still plenty valuable. Valuable enough to be safe.

> How in the hell is that going to get us anywhere near as much land and resources as the alternative and why would we ever do the route that results in the NCR getting even stronger.
You think we would be gaining a lot of land from the MLA? When they could keep it and have it to themselves? Or the Legion?

>Nope: the Frontier, the Shi and all their other holdings imply that they don't give two shits so long as you are civilised. E,g not a raider or tribal.
Which is most everyone in the MLA states and the Legion. There would be an enormous stretch of land with no one to work on it. And We have Yaunker's book. He was quite explicit about Californian superiority. The Frontier, and Shi and such are Californian enough.

>Except I feel that you are severely underestimating the NCR's growth and advancement. Another decade and we will be behind in many areas, I promise you.
Not with how we are advancing. I think you overestimate what they are capable of. And I think you under estimate our chances against the Legion and MLA.
>And? They turned on their own people and destroyed their tribal reservations and such.
Which is an entirely different situation than the one we're in. They won't betray us out of the blue.

>>1987498
tribals are not equatable to us

>>1987560
Infact, we're honorary Californians. As long as we don't fuck with them, we're probably safe.

>>1987546
>We may not be able to win alone, but if we're supporting the NCR, we can make plenty of gains.'
No. If we support the NCR, the NCR will make plenty of gains and we get a few measly scraps.

>Our growth potential is so much greater than the NCR, especially since the NCR will be killing a lot of the people we would be integrating. NCR growth will plateau soon.
It won't. It really won't. Fact is that their population is just getting more and more educated and their industry keeps growing. They've been moving away from small scale farming towards large industrial farming and literally everything about this means they are going to just have a massive population surplus.

Fact is, for the first few years our potential is higher but their labour is so much greater it doesn't matter. Then after that their sheer brain power behind every project ensures that they nearly match our potential while their capacity to build still keeps growing even if we started to catch up in that regard. After that point we ain't getting back in control without a miracle.

>It really is.
It really isn't.

>We're still plenty valuable.
Not as valuable as we are to the MLA.

>Valuable enough to be safe.
For now but now isn't good enough.

>You think we would be gaining a lot of land from the MLA?
Yes.

>When they could keep it and have it to themselves?
Because we have Niner and the MLA are entirely willing to make deals. If we offered to produce shit for land they'd agree not to mention the possibility of directly conquering some ourselves when the NCR has to direct it's forces to deal with the loss of the Boomer town or later.

>Or the Legion?
You mean the people who's advance against the NCR is going incredibly slow at best? Who I specifically said I ain't expecting to give us land but rather to accept our ownership?

>Which is most everyone in the MLA states and the Legion. There would be an enormous stretch of land with no one to work on it.
Not a problem given that they have a huge population to throw around...

>He was quite explicit about Californian superiority. The Frontier, and Shi and such are Californian enough.
The literal Chinese are Californian?

>>1987665
>Not with how we are advancing. I think you overestimate what they are capable of.
Not really. They have the manpower and industry.

>And I think you under estimate our chances against the Legion and MLA.
Sorry that I don't think our robots could suddenly turn the tide against the endless hordes of the Legion or the technologically capable masses of MLA. Maybe 2 years from now but 2 years from now we might have gotten an entire warfleet from Hawaii and found a secret giant cold fusion reactor in Montana or something.

>Which is an entirely different situation than the one we're in. They won't betray us out of the blue.
Sure they won't. It's not like we are sitting on top of a mountain of valuable technologies that they know about from Oddball (or was it Oddjob?) like replicators and shit.

>>1987560
You said that they had never turned on an ally. They had turned on their own people and absorbed tribals. How in the almighty hell is that not equatable?


Need sleep. Night all.

> They turned on their own people and destroyed their tribal reservations and such.
>Brain
"Wouldn't you say they never saw Tribals as much their people in the first place?"

Hmm, yeah. They were always talking about integrating tribals before, but eh. . .what usually happens is people move in, and often the tribals move out or stop being tribals entirely. That was well before Yaunker too.

Not many tribals were too keen on surrendering their lands or way of life to the NCR either. Sure there were plenty who joined, but a lot more fought quite doggedly. Historically happened that tribals are a favorite target of Slavers, so a lot of the peaceful tribals slowly gave out to the ones who could resist them.

That is how Kimball came into office when he took a harder stance on them.

---
>>1978726
>Biological Research
>Human body rejuvenation / life extension

Interestingly, Dr. Dala and Dr Borous have become co-heads of the Animal Domestication and Husbandry group, citing that they "could learn a thing or two" under their care besides the 'skinvelopes' are also various cyberdogs, the single cyber-claw, and most of BigMT's non-descript monstrosities that were penned up to make room for the humans.

>Dr Klein
"It would have been useful to have access to the Nursery. We didn't have any in the way of cloning technology and had to turn to splicing ourselves with machines, but to be honest perhaps that ended up all for the better."

>Dr Dala
"Continued use of organs over time in any creature results in eventual wear and tear with age. And these skinvelopes are occuring significant use to boost public morale."

The Think Tank have teleported to the Nursery and begun experimenting on alternative ways to boost the human lifespan.

These are the options so far.
AVAILABLE ALREADY
-cloning. the very same that gave them extended use. although the effects of long term cloning is unused, currently it does not seem like there is a limit to how many times one can be cloned. just grow the body without the brain and transfer the brain. even missing limbs and organs can be regrown
CHOOSE FOR MORE RESEARCH
-advanced Monocyte Breeder. the limitations of the technology of their age only gave them so much to work with, but with Diana's new technology they may be able to develop a means by which
-alien DNA. the Zetans have a curious biology that may yield interesting results. most of them were killed by your hybrid clone, but you do have some samples of them. mostly in jars. splicing attempts could yield something interesting
-AHS-9 says that there are "more between Quetzal and Hell than dreamt of in your philosophy".
-Other? Would you like to suggest a different method of life extension/rejuvination
NEEDS FEV LAB
-the Super Mutants are effectively immortal, give or take the senility that develops over time. but that itself is now curable. Obviously the FEV research facilities are not completed, but this does hold promise. Unity herself is effectively immortal

>>1987665
>few measly scraps.
Every deal we have done with the NCR has been favorable for us. We have been compensated well for our time.

>>1987678
>turned on their own people
what people? did I miss something? Also, we're the farthest from tribals we could be

>>1987698
>Also, we're the farthest from tribals we could be
Ok i have been ignoring this argument so i don't know the context here but if you're talking about our Civ then yea, but if you're talking about the courier then no, we were born from tribals.

>>1987723
I meant the Civilization we run.

>>1987697
-the Super Mutants are effectively immortal, give or take the senility that develops over time. but that itself is now curable. Obviously the FEV research facilities are not completed, but this does hold promise. Unity herself is effectively immortal

>>1987697
>Other? Would you like to suggest a different method of life extension/rejuvination
Just a tweak of our genetics, increase the reproduction lifespan of cells to give humans a few more years naturally.

>>1987665
>No. If we support the NCR, the NCR will make plenty of gains and we get a few measly scraps.
No, we have a deal where we keep what we take. We put in the effort and we get whatever we work for. Fairest deal out there.

>It won't. It really won't. Fact is that their population is just getting more and more educated and their industry keeps growing. They've been moving away from small scale farming towards large industrial farming and literally everything about this means they are going to just have a massive population surplus.
Again, their population is limited and concentrated in cities. or in the battlefield. They won't be making use of any territory gains anywhere near as much as we would.

>Not as valuable as we are to the MLA.
How much the MLA appreciates us is irrelevent when we end up with more for siding with tehe NCR

>For now but now isn't good enough.
For now goes a long way. Once we finish the war on their side, we would have a lot of trust.

>Because we have Niner and the MLA are entirely willing to make deals. If we offered to produce shit for land they'd agree not to mention the possibility of directly conquering some ourselves when the NCR has to direct it's forces to deal with the loss of the Boomer town or later.
The NCR is also willing to deal, and is the side currently winning. And the MLA isn't just going to back off and leave us huge swathes of land. Not when they can amuse themselves with it.

>You mean the people who's advance against the NCR is going incredibly slow at best? Who I specifically said I ain't expecting to give us land but rather to accept our ownership?
Once the NCR starts collapsing, the legion would have a hell of a lot more momentum than us, and will be taking a hell of a lot more.

>Not a problem given that they have a huge population to throw around...
It's a fucking huge amount of land. With all the casualties they suffer, and how people won't want to move to the frontier, it would be pretty inefficient growing.

>The literal Chinese are Californian?
When they have been in california for the last 200 yrs and assisted in taking out the enclave? Pretty much.

>>1987678
>Not really. They have the manpower and industry.
For now. As they expand and deal with the "savages" they will find themselves with a lot of land with no one to work it. Which is essentially just useless land. We won't suffer that problem.

>Sorry that I don't think our robots could suddenly turn the tide against the endless hordes of the Legion or the technologically capable masses of MLA. Maybe 2 years from now but 2 years from now we might have gotten an entire warfleet from Hawaii and found a secret giant cold fusion reactor in Montana or something.
And you think they would against the NCR? our forces are better equipped for dealing with legion and MLA tactics. and forces. Not armoured slugging matches.

>Sure they won't. It's not like we are sitting on top of a mountain of valuable technologies that they know about from Oddball (or was it Oddjob?) like replicators and shit.
Except they have their own science and they don't want to make a third enemy to distract from the MLA and Legion fronts. And Oddball's tech was unclaimed. We had the chance to Patent our stuff, and we didn't take it. They have no way of knowing whose tech it is other than the person who brings it foreward.
You also need to let go on the Oddball thing. Spurning the NCR because of him is emotional and not at all the logically course of action.

>You said that they had never turned on an ally. They had turned on their own people and absorbed tribals. How in the almighty hell is that not equatable?
Because the tribals were tribals and we are not. It is completely different

>>1987733
This, immortality is something we really need to take a long look at and decide if everyone needs it

>>1987733
>>1987750
The monocyte breeder effectively does that. There isn't exactly a way to alter a persons DNA structure without some sort of mechanical or viral intervention. yet.

>>1987750
Immortality is an albatross. It wont end well.

>>1987756
>Dr Borous
"The idea of some sort of. . .mutation causing ray does sound interesting though."

>>1987756
We haven't researched gene engineering yet?

>>1987758
In my opinion, immortality should be reserved for us, if we're gonna continue our "eternal rule" of our nation

>>1987774
We shouldn't have that either. "eternal rules" always stagnate. It's the nature of man and how they experience time always gets to them.

>>1987769
>Brain
"Not retroactive gene engineering no, although in theory we could use Diana's gestational acceleration chamber combined with genetic engineering of a zygote or embryo to create modified clones or hybrids."

>>1987778
But then we run into the eternal problem of rulers, they either get really shitty, as history shows, or the country gets really bogged down through inefficiency

>>1987697
>-advanced Monocyte Breeder. the limitations of the technology of their age only gave them so much to work with, but with Diana's new technology they may be able to develop a means by which

>>1987697
-advanced Monocyte Breeder. the limitations of the technology of their age only gave them so much to work with, but with Diana's new technology they may be able to develop a means by which

This'll enhance our soldiers too.

>>1987698
>Every deal we have done with the NCR has been favorable for us. We have been compensated well for our time.
True but why would they give us land? They haven't ever gave away something they didn't have a good supply of.

>what people? did I miss something? Also, we're the farthest from tribals we could be
True but I wasn't arguing that point.

>>1987736
>No, we have a deal where we keep what we take.
Not in the case of land. That was specified to be on a case by case basis back when we first officially met the NCR.

>We put in the effort and we get whatever we work for. Fairest deal out there.
Aye and the MLA would offer you the exact same.

>Again, their population is limited and concentrated in cities.
Trust me they would. Before this war the NCR was a mostly unindustrialised nation with no form of mechanised agriculture. Now they've got a thriving motor industry and all the rest meaning they have a massive surplus of labour and food freed from there. Factor in the stream of people from places like the Frontier and it is clear that the NCR is going to continue growing without end.

>or in the battlefield.
It's almost as if it wouldn't stay there forever. Especially after a war ends.

>They won't be making use of any territory gains anywhere near as much as we would.
That has more to do with us lacking land than them not using it.

>How much the MLA appreciates us is irrelevant when we end up with more for siding with the NCR
Except you have no reason to believe that we'd get more from the NCR. Literally no concrete reasoning or logic at all.

>For now goes a long way. Once we finish the war on their side, we would have a lot of trust.
You can have all the trust you want. I'll take my winnings from a war in the form of a nice chunk of land.

>The NCR is also willing to deal, and is the side currently winning.
Debatable.

>And the MLA isn't just going to back off and leave us huge swathes of land. Not when they can amuse themselves with it.
Well if we support the MLA...


You know, I'd actually considered bothering to continue arguing but then I realised I have LITERALLY no reason to do so. So fuck it, I'm going to sleep and that is the end of this. Not because I think I've won or because I am conceding the points raised, I'm just too tired and have too much to do later (when I wake up). General point is this, the NCR falling first is the most efficient and beneficial route.

>>1987796
>they didn't have a good supply of.
the breakup of the two biggest empires on the continent will result in an ample amount of land, and if we come to the table as equals, we'll get out fair share

Then what point were you arguing? That they turned on the tribals? Well duh, there's a reason for that

>>1987792
That is a problem, but we also have to recognize, we might not always be what is best for the people. Especially if it is based around achieving a higher ideal.
George Washington knew it, and so he stepped down. Cincinnatus knew it, and there is a reason why and American city is named after a long dead roman, in a round about way.

>>1987811
Washington and Cincinnatus weren't men who were pretty much the best at everything they did, and might as well have formed a nation with their own two hands.

Now, would it make for a good story to get passed down? Sure, but if Washington saw the absolute state of congress and the country now, I can't even imagine what he would say.

>>1987796
>Not in the case of land. That was specified to be on a case by case basis back when we first officially met the NCR.
No land was a keep what you take. We rejected the clause to make it a negotiation. NCR accepted it.

>Trust me they would. Before this war the NCR was a mostly unindustrialised nation with no form of mechanised agriculture. Now they've got a thriving motor industry and all the rest meaning they have a massive surplus of labour and food freed from there. Factor in the stream of people from places like the Frontier and it is clear that the NCR is going to continue growing without end.
A thriving motor industry means jack when there aren't people to work the land- mine the resources, care for the farms, etc. THose are people that don't just pop into being from thin air. And you act like the MLA isn't growing, or the legion. Everyone is growing.

>It's almost as if it wouldn't stay there forever. Especially after a war ends.
Adter the war ends, we have a nice blood of the convenent thing, where we fought shoulder to shoulder with them. We would have also just gotten out of the biggest war of the last 200 years. War Weariness is not a solved problem for the NCR.

>That has more to do with us lacking land than them not using it.
Still we can use what we take for much more than they can. Land isn't everything.

>Except you have no reason to believe that we'd get more from the NCR. Literally no concrete reasoning or logic at all.
NCR has been pretty generous in the past. No reason to believe they will start screwing with us out of the blue.

>You can have all the trust you want. I'll take my winnings from a war in the form of a nice chunk of land.
It's almost like you can take material gains and make stronger diplomatic ties at teh same time. Just because we earn their trust doesn't mean we leave with nothing. It isn't how that works.

>Well if we support the MLA...
If we support the MLA, we get leaned on until we swear to the dark god and become a puppet ruler. Really looking out for number one there buddy.


General point is, NCR alliance is the safest, most profitable course of action and leaves us in the best position for our continued expansion.

>>1987796
>NCR was a mostly unindustrialised nation
but the NCR was making guns, armor, had vehicles, and actual factories. Are they more advanced now? Sure, but the NCR wasn't some third world country

>>1987697
>advanced Monocyte Breeder. the limitations of the technology of their age only gave them so much to work with, but with Diana's new technology they may be able to develop a means by which

This makes it three for this path
>>1987795
>>1987796

>>1987697
The Think Tank are working on a two-pronged approach. On the one, using advanced replication and current research on the monocyte breeder implant in tandem with the use of Diana's accelerated gestational device, to see if they can halt it in certain creatures. Animals are being grown and rapidly aged to goop, to Diana's chagrin. They are investigating certain long lived species with minimal senescence, such as tortoises and lobsters certain microbial varieties stored in Diana's repository. A promising creature is a tiny fresh water creature known as the Hydra, which is said to have virtually no aging to them.

On the other, rather than attempting to halt aging, they are trying to reverse or at least heal its effects via the processes of the monocyte breeder itself.

No results are made yet, its a project that will take investment. But nobody expected "Immortality to be easy"

>Klein
"I bet the imbeciles at CIT never discovered a way to be immortal! Not in 200 years!"

Unity notes the Irony. "It's the exact opposite problem I had. I couldn't age even if I wanted to, and now you're trying to prevent it."

>Klein
"This research will only go so far with animals alone. What we need are humans. Prime humans would be best, but any humans will do. Fetch me more specimens."

>>1987881
... Question, Why not the horse shoe crab?

>>1987889
>Why not the horse shoe crab?
Are horse shoe crabs immortal? I know their blood is medically valuable, but that is dealing with infections or something.

>>1987881
Why not Jellyfish?
I know they are remake them self and live forever.

>- Go purchase more slaves from the MLA for the NCR as well as some for ourselves along with as much metal / fissile
The MLA are glad to exchange 271 more slaves and metal and fissile in exchange for more advanced electronics and high tuned parts.

Not just hovercraft parts, but certain other ones too. Instead of asking for a full design, they simply give out specifications and your replicators and ZAX do the work.

>ZAX(CEO) "What on earth do you think they are making"

>ZAX(MAJOR) "Weapons. Has to be weapons."

>ZAX(RND) "Laboratory equipment?"

>ZAX(SPI) "Perhaps stealth equipment"

>ZAX(RIG'D) "Hmmm, maybe they're trying to make their own lobotomites and are using these to make Tesla Coils and Brain Chips"

>ZAX(CEO) "Come now RIG'D we're looking for serious suggestions here."

---

New Turn soon.

>>1987926
Why are we not showering them with caps? We should have more than enough to buy slaves and materials with.

Also, how far along the "Im an american citizen" scale are the last batch of slaves? Are they working already? Any problems? Hows the education? Do the 500-odd slaves give some sort of benefit on actions?

>>1987926
How many are NCR? and why aren't we paying with all the cash money the NCR dumped on us?

>>1987931
Actually i think we are, we haven't made any weapons this turn so i think we are using the caps+electronic parts.

>>1987934
>>1987931
How many caps of your stockpile do you wish to give. All the ones the NCR dumped on you guys?

Just wanted to make sure everyone was on board with splurging them.

>>1987938
>All the ones the NCR dumped on you guys?
Yes.

>>1987938
75 percent. Though get more NCR guys than last time.

>>1987938
Basically as much as we can reasonably give and still have some left over for emergency things/Montana haggling. Basically >>1987943

>>1987943
I Support this choice

>>1987938
Also, does the MLA know about NCR switching currency? The imminent devaluation of the cap?

>>1987948
I don't think they would know about that. Even if they did it would have small impact on them since the NCR is hostile with them. But it's better to use it before someone else has the same idea

>>1987948
The cap would only devalue if the NCR started offloading it. Which they seem to be doing through us, so we have a bit of control in how much the cap is worth.

Caps sitting in a vault in the NCR aren't going to inflate anything.

>>1987952
However, the idea that there is a whole nations share of caps soon to be on a smaller market means people will be wary. The same reason why the stock market fluctuates over political events. And when we finally do start to massively offload caps the price will drop faster because of this knowledge.

>>1987938
Get all NCR soldiers/civilians, even the super fucked up ones.

We deliver all of them back, and retain the skilled / unbroken slaves as new American citizens.

75% of our stockpile sounds good.

>>1988000
Those trips

>Niner
"These NCR slaves ain't exactly cheap. Lots more value in em as war trophies or sacrifices for the cult than your usual wastelander. Plus some other things I'm not privvy to say eh.

Oh damn man, that's a lotta caps. If this were last year, I'd feel honored. But now the NCR is making soda bottles with the caps, and everything is going up. It's not looking too good for the bean counters. Guys are trading their bottlecaps for NCR dollars now.

Your my friend though so I'll take this in good faith, but these caps ain't just what they used to be."

+144 NCR POWs.

>>1988012
Told ya.

Does he still want the caps though? Just more of them? Are they switching currency now as well? How much metal/fissile did we get?

>>1988016
And how many non-NCR slaves...

Also, we're going to mind-rape these guys as well, right?

>>1988018
>The MLA are glad to exchange 271 more slaves and metal and fissile in exchange for more advanced electronics and high tuned parts.

>Not just hovercraft parts, but certain other ones too. Instead of asking for a full design, they simply give out specifications and your replicators and ZAX do the work.

From OP past post

>>1988012
QM, will you have time on the weekend or is it more sporadic posts?

This is not to imply anything bad, just to help people manage their expectations and to allow you to do whatever you need to do without having to worry about the quest.

>BIG MT
https://pastebin.com/jAXYFRB1

>THE NURSERY
https://pastebin.com/ic3ac1xL

>MONTANNA
https://pastebin.com/hNDfikF9

A C0NSTRUCT0R is being built passively, this will take about 2 more turns of passive, non-active production. However this will greatly increase the construction/collection of wherever you devote it too.

The MLA's provision of scrap metal, the steel from the OW Automated Supply Depot, and fissile plus automated hexcrete mines have just barely covered the expenses we incured

---

ALERT:
Your Medical Team is rapidly reaching capacity to treat SO many new integrates. Although no one is dying thanks to abundant supplies, the logistics of this much new people so quickly is stretching both man and machine to receive everyone and care for any non-acute sicknesses, trauma, and such.

>James Bond
"Additional supervision required."

The robot military is being recalled from the front to supervise things under James Bond's orders and provide manpower.

The problem is they were still sort of dealing with the previous slaves who, after some months, are much better but now there's so many more people.

The replicators are holding and providing out basic necessities of food, water, medical aid. In that regard everything is working well. However:

>Arcade
"We need more of everything. Living spaces, expanded sewer systems, food distribution robots, this is a huge amount of influx we hadn't properly anticipated.

We should also train more researchers/medics. We have the schools to do so, but if we're going to be taking in hundreds of people from a brutalistic gang of raiders, we can't do with barely over 50 combined humans and medical machines each. Even if we're the best. . .we can't be at two places at once. We've got people already very educated with the ASA, we just need a training action to officiate them so they can stop working as volunteers."

We are also in great need of new housing. Furthermore, we're running out of places to store the prisoners.

CHOOSE:
-Build fences quickly out in the open, store them there in tents and sleeping bags with makeshift latrines
-Store them in the alien spaceship under supervision
-Store them in the FORBIDDEN Zone
-Other? Call the NCR to pick them up?

>Dr Klein
"I warned you we needed bigger specimen pens. You got rid of Little Yangtze!"

---

>>1988036
That will have to be an announcement I'll make during the weekend. I admit as of recent its been play by post (and mainly when the turn is finally finished). I am trying to stick to the update a day thing.

I hope during the weekend I can have a sit down and fast update session.

---

New

NEW TURN

4 Action Cap.

Available Actions: Civilian, Construction, Military, Research, ZAX, Hero
+Robotic Research does not count toward cap.
+Biological Research does not count toward cap
>>>>>Turn: 121

>>1988046
Turn:
>Hero
- Fly to Hawaii with EDE and Daisy piloting. Once we land, have Riddick and Cain ready to come through the portal
- Convene a research council with all our scientists + Think tank; ask them what we immigrate priorities we should focus our free robotics and bio research options on

>Construction 1
Finish FEV lab (e.g specimen pens + hidden testing facility)

>Construction 2
Parts / weapons for the MLA in exchange for slaves

>Civ
Restore Dr Mobius and organise our researchers into specific teams based on their skills / personality - each with a team lead

>ZAX
Improved automated supply chain (robots + vertibirds) for Divide scavenging

>Robo-research
Research all the BoS robots we got for upgrades to add to our regular forces.

>Bio research
Strong universal defoliant

>Passive production
C0NSTRUCT0R

>>1988046
Food and Water have decreased following the influx of new people. Levels are no longer luxurious, but passable. Everyone grumbles a bit about the rationing to feed the newcomers, but many feel a patriotic spirit to help their new comrades.

The slaves are, for the most part, very glad and are adopting well, but again, we're chronically short on living space and non-basic necessities.

The service industry established partly by the ASA and the Hubologists are a fantastic help, allocating various businesses to provide new clothes, tents, and other goods and services to the newcomers, as well as organizing medically trained volunteers. The small following of Mormons are also pitching in and providing prayer sessions, although at the same time the Lobotomite keepers are providing a different sort of comfort.

The growing following of Mormons are opposed to the Lobotomites and preach against their usage on religious and ethical grounds, the Hubologists are more accepting of the practice.

>>1988048
>- Convene a research council with all our scientists + Think tank; ask them what we immigrate priorities we should focus our free robotics and bio research options on
This was requested last thread, I'm still compiling it you'll get an answer though for sure.

>>1988048
Change the second construction to.
>Build more homes for the New slaves, and expand the sewer systems too.

>>1988052
I support the turn (hell I wrote it last turn)

But I agree with changing the second construction action to deal with the influx of people.

I think we can do more than just new houses / expanded sewers though. Add more to it.

We also might want to change the CIV action to incorporate more researchers / scientists.

I'd prefer to keep the ASA as a private body at this point though, rather bringing them into our government. They are basically the lynchpin of private industry at the moment after all.

>>1988046
>-Store them in the FORBIDDEN Zone
Under robot supervision

Rolled 9 (1d100)

>>1988048
Supporting and Rolling

>>1988048
In light of the QM's post, I'd propose this revised list:

Turn:
>Hero
- Fly to Hawaii with EDE and Daisy piloting. Once we land, have Riddick and Cain ready to come through the portal
- Help the new slaves integrate
- Make a speech over the radio celebrating the growth of America while reminding our people that victory requires individual sacrifice
- Assist with the CIV action

>Construction 1
Finish FEV lab (e.g specimen pens + hidden testing facility)

>Construction 2
Build more homes for the new slaves, while also expanding our current sewers, food distribution centers, school and Follower Hospital.

>Civ
Restore Dr Mobius and organise our researchers into specific teams based on their skills / personality - each with a team lead

>ZAX
Improved automated supply chain (robots + vertibirds) for Divide scavenging

>Robo-research
Research all the BoS robots we got for upgrades to add to our regular forces.

>Bio research
Strong universal defoliant

>Passive production
C0NSTRUCT0R

>>1988046
>NCR Prisoners
Have our military peacefully debrief each prisoner for any useful intel.Provide them each with new clothes, a shower and a meal - along with a copy of our book. Then deliver them to the NCR border.

>>1988087
All-in-all I agree with the plan. However, we will need to scan any NCR personnel worthwhile. This was the original goal and it still is, especially since the cap is fast becoming useless as currency. We dont need to scan every farmer but any military officers or leaders, public servants and especially scientists/engineers need to be scanned and their knowledge added to ours (SPI can oversee this).

And moving forward, no new slaves until we have the fusion plant and the large disintegrator running. We need the flexibility they add and we really cant deal with that many new slaves yet. We need to school the ones we have first and that takes time.

>>1988095
>However, we will need to scan any NCR personnel worthwhile
I thought of that, but the only problem is that it will be quite suspicious if we just separate some prisoners from the rest - especially if these prisoners are 'high-value'

That, plus the fact that we need to shave their heads to perform the mind interrogation will both be dodgy to the other prisoners and ultimately the NCR

>No new slaves
Agreed with that

>>1988101
Everybody gets a medical exam. Some just take longer. And it so happens all the interesting people take longer (in addition to some randos to even it out a bit). Also, I didnt know we needed to shave the head. Why is that? Cant we glue the electrodes with some jelly? And if we do need to shave, do it to everyone anyway. Cite radlice or some other nonsense that seems plausible.

File: 56783.png (5.6 MB, 1752x2802)

5.6 MB PNG

Was bored, so that means fresh propaganda

>>1988087
I'll support this

File: 685897.png (943 KB, 474x701)

943 KB PNG

And another, this one aimed at our new NCR soldier prisoners

>>1988174
Probably best not to try to sway them over so blatantly. They might get offended.

>>1988087
Support

File: 4784788.png (587 KB, 513x583)

587 KB PNG

>>1988179
>Probably best not to try to sway them over so blatantly. They might get offended.
Eh, all of our propaganda is quite blatant - more fun that way.

New and final one - this one aimed at helping to integrate the former slaves / our new citizens

Rolled 63 (1d100)

>>1988087
Here's a roll

Rolled 54 (1d100)

>>1988087
So looks like this is winning
Roll

Rolled 94 (1d100)

>>1988087
Rolling

>inb4 nat 1

>>1988372
Still not statistically significant but Ill take it.

>>1988195
Man, if you guys only had more water to spend on Diana's water minimal grass this would be perfect.

>>1988087
The NCR prisoners are once again, only giving Name, Rank, and Serial number.

Even efforts to get them to loosen up through comfort and care are not very effective. Especially the officers.

>Brain
"That really should have worked on any amateurs. I suspect the NCR must have an awareness of basic anti-interrogation techniques and the use of comfort to loosen up tongues, I know as much as I'm a brain and you do talk more when you feel comfortable."

"Hmm, but perhaps it doesn't help we don't have proper interrogation facilities either. And this tactic takes more time."

>What do?

>>1988419
Eh. just give em to the NCR.
The sooner we offload them the sooner we get paid

>>1988419
Open'em up.

>>1988419
I say to just call NCR and have them taken away.

>>1988419
Scan them. AT LEAST the officers and any scientist there may be. We are not doing this just to help the NCR.

>>1988442
No way are they not going to get suspicious if we start taking people away. Also the NCR wint buy the securityaccident excuse twice.

>>1988426
>>1988432
2 for give them away
>>1988428
>>1988442
2 for surgery

>>1988469
It doesnt have to be an explosion. Just pick a few out of the 144 and say they have a disease or something. Mental trauma, whatever.

We have the opportunity to spy on the NCR and do it without them knowing vs let the chance slip and gain nothing.

>>1987736
Alright I'm back from sleeping. Time to continue proving you wrong.

>The NCR is also willing to deal, and is the side currently winning. And the MLA isn't just going to back off and leave us huge swathes of land. Not when they can amuse themselves with it.
If we support the MLA we can deal for land. This is a fact and I can be almost certain if we raised it with the council of warlords they'd agree to giving us land for supporting them although the amount we receive might be debatable we can't really say without talking to them.

>Once the NCR starts collapsing, the legion would have a hell of a lot more momentum than us, and will be taking a hell of a lot more.
And referring to the map, the region that they are going to be going through is more or less entirely desert.

>It's a fucking huge amount of land. With all the casualties they suffer, and how people won't want to move to the frontier, it would be pretty inefficient growing.
Ignoring the fact they have a heavily nationalised economy and their entire education / culture focuses on them reclaiming america along with an incoming massive increase in labour available for use? Probably.

>When they have been in california for the last 200 yrs and assisted in taking out the enclave? Pretty much.
Fair enough.

>For now. As they expand and deal with the "savages" they will find themselves with a lot of land with no one to work it. Which is essentially just useless land. We won't suffer that problem.
Actually we would, as we can only expand so fast with robots especially given that automating industry requires additional construction time.

>And you think they would against the NCR?
Seeing as I'd mostly have us in an AA role? Yeah. Especially because the NCR's ground troops would struggle to kill a securitron which can pull out before their tanks can reinforce them so even in ground combat we'd slaughter.

>Our forces are better equipped for dealing with legion and MLA tactics. and forces. Not armoured slugging matches.
Agreed but the NCR is only going to get tougher from here on out. If we don't manage to intervene soon they'll continue to industrialise, research and expand beyond anything we can match.

>Except they have their own science and they don't want to make a third enemy to distract from the MLA and Legion fronts.
A third enemy with no known air defence, no known anti-armour assets and a significantly smaller population than either of those other enemies.

>And Oddball's tech was unclaimed. We had the chance to Patent our stuff, and we didn't take it.
I'd point out I always get into this argument of "we could've patent'd it" but I fail to see how that would help. When the NCR government is the one with the control over those patents and could erase them in an instant.

>They have no way of knowing whose tech it is other than the person who brings it forward.
Then why do they claim that Hexcrete was invented in New Reno? Because that argument ain't true in the slightest.

>You also need to let go on the Oddball thing. Spurning the NCR because of him is emotional and not at all the logically course of action.
I got over the Oddball thing a long time ago. Destroying the NCR is the most logical course of action.

>Because the tribals were tribals and we are not. It is completely different
Oh sure it is.

>>1987802
>the breakup of the two biggest empires on the continent will result in an ample amount of land, and if we come to the table as equals, we'll get out fair share
Our fair share or the NCR's interpretation of what our fair share is are two entirely separate things.

Also, why have a share of the MLA-Legion when you could have the far more valuable NCR lands?

>>1987833
>No land was a keep what you take. We rejected the clause to make it a negotiation. NCR accepted it.
Then we are even worse off. Because the NCR will almost certainly push the MLA-Legion back without our help and thus we won't exactly be making the gains you are expecting.

Especially given that we are what is holding the MLA-Legion's head above water to some degree.

>A thriving motor industry means jack when there aren't people to work the land- mine the resources, care for the farms, etc. Those are people that don't just pop into being from thin air.
No they don't but as it turns out when you suddenly give every farmer a tractor they don't need 50+ farmhands to keep shit in check. So hey, look at that, their thriving motor industry churning out tractors they didn't have before MEANS THEY HAVE THE PEOPLE.

>And you act like the MLA isn't growing, or the legion. Everyone is growing.
The Legion's numbers don't matter given their lack of tech and the MLA are going to stall out soon from lack of new places to expand.

>Adter the war ends, we have a nice blood of the convenent thing, where we fought shoulder to shoulder with them. We would have also just gotten out of the biggest war of the last 200 years. War Weariness is not a solved problem for the NCR.
It actually kinda is all things considered. Seeing as war weariness refers to a lack of funding, public support or other such things which if the NCR wins they'll be far from lacking in.

>Still we can use what we take for much more than they can. Land isn't everything.
All the more reason to take as much as we can and to take the more valuable and developed NCR lands.

>NCR has been pretty generous in the past. No reason to believe they will start screwing with us out of the blue.
They don't need to screw us out of the blue when what we can offer to them is shit to them. Whereas to the MLA-Legion our aid is vastly more important.

>It's almost like you can take material gains and make stronger diplomatic ties at teh same time. Just because we earn their trust doesn't mean we leave with nothing. It isn't how that works.
I know it isn't but the fact remains that I know the going the MLA-Legion route gets us the NCR lands which are worth more and going your route gets us fuck all effectively.

>If we support the MLA, we get leaned on until we swear to the dark god and become a puppet ruler.
Like fuck that would happen. I'd point out to you that they are treating us as an equal and member already so it's hardly as if they are going to try and force the issue.

>General point is, NCR alliance is the safest, most profitable course of action and leaves us in the best position for our continued expansion.
It really isn't.

What the NCR route results in is the NCR and BOS meeting up, the BOS who have previously stated an intent to ally with the NCR, who then would form a giant fucking bloc we couldn't beat.

It also fucks us out of the valuable NCR lands in order to get some shitty legion lands (literally nothing here) and some MLA lands (assuming they don't take all those).


This is before mentioning that these plans of mine are not for immediate use but rather for IF, IF a tipping point is reached because I like the state we are currently in and want to maintain it too but I'd argue that in another year or two, which I feel is the maximum amount of time we have until the NCR or MLA-Legion is really pushing either way, we will be strong enough to step into the war and make serious gains either way but that in turn depends on how Hawaii, Montana and if we ever get round to it Texas goes so it may be the case that I end up agreeing with you but that would require we were far stronger than we are currently.

>>1988481
Return them to the NCR and get our payment.

>>1988500
Because the NCR land would be pillaged and destroyed far more than if we just decided to take them our ourselves.

>>1988481
Give them up

>>1988496
>>1988500
>>1988508
You, sir, have it absolutely correct. We must continue with the equalibrium and when push comes to shove kill the NCR and claim its lands. What the other anons dont seem to realize is that the BoS is the next NCR variant for the MLA and Legion to fight. Any powerlevel differences are offset by the MLA and Legion having to keep a hold on vast swathes of land, meaning the attack on the BoS will be very slow at first. This, again, keeps us always growing and getting bigger while the rest fight it out amongst themselves and become weaker over time.

>>1988521
We have nowgere near the capability to take much of anything. We would end up with a pitamce while the MLA and legion take the lionshare of all the good stuff.

>>1988530
This, whether we want the NCR or MLA first, we need more of everything in our nation first, and an actual war plan.

>>1988541
>Brain
"And definitely an army that isn't passively built in piece meal. I'm sure you'd understand it'd be prudent to mobilize before any major military action."

>>1988530
And if we play our cards right we wont need huge areas of farmland. We only need areas of high value (any science or pre-war installations). They can keep the boneyard as long as we get the Shi computer. They can take the Capital when we get to keep the ZAX. If we properly focus on replicators and their use, any particular area of land will be inconsequential to us. Whats the need for an iron mine if we can literally turn sand into airships? Why take over a foundry when the rock under our feet provides just as good a building material for our robots? Get where I am going with this?

>>1988520
>Because the NCR land would be pillaged and destroyed far more than if we just decided to take them our ourselves.
And if we tell the MLA to not fuck up the shit we are going to be keeping they'll keep it in good shape or at least as good a shape as is possible for an invasion. Also, since I must state this again, read the last paragraph where I specifically say that I want to wait as long as possible to make sure we are as strong as possible so we can do as much as possible.

>>1988521
Not to mention that the moment the NCR meets the BOS they'll ally. Imagine the result of that. Fact is if we can get Hawaii, most of Montana and Texas we can invade the NCR from three directions (while using the Texas holdings to distract the Legion and possibly even the Nursery).

>>1988530
That assumes that we can't make a deal with the MLA for a specific amount or area of land but fair enough if that is your worry.

>>1988541
Agreed. I've discussed my plans for defeating the MLA and the Legion. I can detail my plan for the NCR but I've got to get ready to go for a meal with my family. So I'll see you all in a few hours at most.

>>1988552
Hmmm, but I wonder if your NCR plan relies on the fact that the MLA are on our side in this fight. If so, then I could also draw up a plan for a pure NCR/Phoenix war

>>1988559
Why waste our forces? If we attack the MLA/Legion will do so too, no question about it, meaning we may have a better say but we dont really care all that much about land itself, only what tech is on it. It would seem to me more prudent to let the MLA/Legion take the losses while we do intelligence/tech work and strike teams. While the MLA/Legion is the anvil that gets beaten we are the scalpel that cuts where it hurts, if youll excuse my prose. This, again, since we only need select things from the MLA. Being the stealth part would also allow us to destroy any objects we dont want the MLA/Legion to have (if the NCR doesnt do it already), meaning we can scout out and steal/blow up anything valuable that we can carry and negotiate for the select things we cant carry. While the MLA/Legion rely on land and infrastructure we have no such problems. Just use teleporters to move troops and shuffle the cards in the shadows so we have all the aces.

>>1988570
You can argue a similiar plan involving siding with the NCR. Use them as the flashy distraction that ties up the MLA and Legion troops, while we surgical strike key positions, make sudden spear heads towards key fortifications and ccities, and use our superior mobility to flank and squeeze the more infantry oriented forces between our bots and NCR armour.

>>1988552
>And if we tell the MLA to not fuck up the shit we are going to be keeping they'll keep it in good shape or at least as good a shape as is possible for an invasion
Didn't everyone disagree that the MLA/Legion couldn't keep their dick and gladius in their pants so they don't fuck up the territory?

We have all agreed already that the MLA and Legion will inevitably loot and rape the NCR territory. Now while you guys apparently don't care about the rape or murder, you probably care care about the damage to infrastructure that will happen once the "gates are opened"

So it is only possible, that to capture the NCR as pristine as possible, we have to be the sole power to do it. As for "wasting our forces" we should let this point wait until we can verify if the MLA want out forces officially as part of the war

>>1988577
Yes, and were we fighting with the NCR that would be my sugestion. However as violet anon already pointed out, fighting FOR the NCR fucks us over in so many ways while fighting AGAINST the NCR allows for the potential to take all of their tech and have the MLA/Legion just continue fighting another foe. Meaning we get way more and keep the relative power levels far longer if we shiv the NCR.

>>1988579
Again, if we use our cards wisely we will have no need for any infrastructure. Ever. Meaning we dont care how blown up the land is if we can have a constructor just walk and repair at the same time. We dont care about the MLA/Legion damages as long as we will eventually be the ones to control the territory.

>>1988559
>Hmmm, but I wonder if your NCR plan relies on the fact that the MLA are on our side in this fight.
I account for it by assuming we can have fewer front-line elements but generally the plan is still the same since we need to counter their tanks and planes in order to render their infantry a far easier to eliminate target. I'd also advise developing anti-artillery measures similar to what the NCR Ghost division tanks and their supporting units had since we'd not want entire squads getting wiped by their indirect fire elements.

Mostly it's like the plan to eliminate the MLA (constant push of robots) but with an notably stronger presence of our anti-air and anti-tank / fortification models.

>If so, then I could also draw up a plan for a pure NCR/Phoenix war
Eh, do what you want man, multiple war plans only helps to refine our methods and solve issues.

>>1988579
>Didn't everyone disagree that the MLA/Legion couldn't keep their dick and gladius in their pants so they don't fuck up the territory?
They'll kill the population and probably do some surface damage but seeing as my goals are industry and power generation, these losses don't matter. Especially when the NCR may prove rebellious and hard to manage so a reduction in population would be useful. Fact is that I'm more worried about the NCR destroying shit as they lose it to deny us / the MLA it.

>We have all agreed already that the MLA and Legion will inevitably loot and rape the NCR territory. Now while you guys apparently don't care about the rape or murder, you probably care care about the damage to infrastructure that will happen once the "gates are opened"
True but to be frank if we've gotten the word of the MLA that they won't and got a dark god pact then I'd have no issue. Since that is the best protection we can have.

>So it is only possible, that to capture the NCR as pristine as possible, we have to be the sole power to do it.
Agreed but I've already stated that I want to wait as long as possible maintaining this balance in the hope of reaching that point.

>As for "wasting our forces" we should let this point wait until we can verify if the MLA want out forces officially as part of the war
Agreed, they do want our aid in covert matters but to be fair I'm not bothered about getting involved in a direct war until we need to or want to.

>>1988597
>if we use our cards wisely
What does this even mean? We are making an American Empire, right? It would be a huge pain in the ass if we needed to dispatch constructors all over the country, instead of the infrastructure already being there.

>>1988601
We could always invest in drones and have an air force of our own, as I do believe, even in our advanced state, air power is key. As for your anti-artillery methods, supporting elements could be instituted.

Isn't one of the biggest issues our lack of population? If a large majority of the NCR population is unusable to us, then we aren't much of an empire.

>we've gotten the word of the MLA that they won't
If we get their written word that they won't, then I could reconsider my stance, but you're dealing with a raider nation. That shit is gonna happen.

I also have agreed that we need to build up our forces, as >>1988547 said, we need to devote actions to it now

>>1988481
Give them away

Can you guys vote and make a tiebreaker instead of arguing with this shit?

Or suggest some alternatives.

>>1988618
>We could always invest in drones and have an air force of our own, as I do believe, even in our advanced state, air power is key. As for your anti-artillery methods, supporting elements could be instituted.
Oh I agree air drones are a fundamental part of combating every foe in my current plans. As the vertical mobility makes shit so much easier.

>Isn't one of the biggest issues our lack of population?
Which we are endeavouring to solve via Montana and research into things like accelerated growth and such. Plus our lack of population is only so noticeable because we lack the robots to make up for it for now.

>If a large majority of the NCR population is unusable to us, then we aren't much of an empire.
Eh, an empire is an empire is an empire. If we can enforce our will just as strongly as the empire that is the MLA, then we are an empire.

>If we get their written word that they won't, then I could reconsider my stance, but you're dealing with a raider nation. That shit is gonna happen.
Fair enough.

>I also have agreed that we need to build up our forces, as >>1988547 said, we need to devote actions to it now
Agreed. Once we've got the reactor and various implements of non-fissile replication under way we can get started on mass producing everything we need.

Plus, we'll soon have some shit started in Montana and possibly Hawaii under our control which will enable us to greatly expand our efforts.


I must go now.

>>1988669
Montana was barely populated pre-war, I don't know how many people are living there currently, but California certainly has more.

>an empire is an empire is an empire
There is a reason I value the old Roman empire more than the Mongol Empire, because a lot of the Mongol empire was empty space and land, whereas the Roman Empire has a very large population. This is a personal opinion, but if we rule California and no one lives there, we aren't really an Empire.

Enjoy your meal Anon

>>1988618
Replicators and the energy to use them. We can do in months what traditional industry does in years.

>>1988698
Doesn't change the fact that an un-damaged territory is far more valuable than a damaged or destroyed one

>>1988481
Return them to them
NCR.

but let them know they are welcome back if they choose.

when everything starts falling apart they may come back as refugees

>>1988583
He has not pointed out anything of the sort. The NCR would be the best support and is the best ally for the MLA NCR war. Its the most profitable in the long run to side with them.

>>1988744
How?? The NCR will baloon far faster than us if there is nobody to oppose them and we will be in no state to either fight them or take them over politically since they have the larger army and Yaunker would be the most popular being since jesus.

The other way around we can swoop in as saviours when we finally liberate the wastes from the MLA/Legion (who are fighting the BoS so we have space and time to grow).

>>1988710
Yes, however the option assumes we are either siding with the NCR or soloing them. Either way bad right now. Maybe when the NCR is on its knees and we have a massive army so we can "save the day".

>>1988601
>They'll kill the population and probably do some surface damage but seeing as my goals are industry and power generation, these losses don't matter. Especially when the NCR may prove rebellious and hard to manage so a reduction in population would be useful. Fact is that I'm more worried about the NCR destroying shit as they lose it to deny us / the MLA it.
The MLA will murder rape everyone, steal everything not bolted down and then steal the bolts and what was once bolted down. We arent going to be getting any valuable infrastructure off them without paying out the nose for it.

>True but to be frank if we've gotten the word of the MLA that they won't and got a dark god pact then I'd have no issue. Since that is the best protection we can have.
You expect a bunch of murder rapist looters will agree to no murder, rape and loot? If they make the deal, sure, but it wont happen.

>>1988755
I mean if we want to roll with the idea that "the NCR has suffered a huge blow so we come in guns blazing and save the country from the barbarians. Then we just decide to keep the country, and we distract the people with luxuries. That, or we make the NCR our uber ally until the MLA and Legion are done for and we swoop in and take over

>>1988755
Hard to be taken seriously as saviors when we have a public history of working side by side with them. No one would believe it, just think we were a power mad asshole. Liberating people we would be directly responsible for enslaving does not go very far.

We side with the NCR, we present ourselves as a safe haven for tribals, as we "civilize them" while we liberate the midwest. That leaves us with a lot of happy people as well as the resources there. NCR camt grow too big too fast or it wont be able to maintain logistics and goods, but we can, so we can sustain a much further reach than they can. Then as we build up once more we go after the NCR while they come into conflict with the BOS. The midwest brotherhood wont side with the NCR. They hate each other. The NCR killed the Lost Hill, seat of BOS power.

>>1988769
That is an option yes, and not a bad one, however that leaves the BoS to be dealt with.

In any case, we currently continue on the path of fucking the NCR as both those options depend on this.

>>1988786
BOS is us but not as good. With the midwest resources we should be able to take them. Especially since we can offer what the reavers are selling. Will be hard getting people to fight against the guys offering "perfection"

>>1988781
The BoS openly approved of the NCR. They are friends, if uneasy ones. Besides, we dont just shove bots down peoples throats. As I have mentioned we use the MLA/Legion as a tool and only do blackops ourselves. Plausible deniability and when we finally do swoop in with bots they will not care about what might or might not be when we keep them from getting killed. Yaunker may know but the people will love us. Theyll eat it all up if it means safety and comfort under us.

>>1988811
Isn't the BOS supplying the MLA though? Or is that a different chapter.

>>1988816
MLA is taking from the BOS salvage and loot.

>>1988807
Approves in killing the MLA. When it comes to actual meeting between the 2, with no MLA to distract them, it would devolve into war. To many grudges to not go that way.

>>1988825
Second part is for >>1988811

>>1988825
So then the BOS and NCR aren't friends if the MLA is getting supplied from them

>>1988832
the BoS has clearly split into factions. likely stemming from the absorption into the NCR

>>1988863
So good, if the BOS is splintered, then it makes it easier for us to take them on

Also, if we can go to the negotiating table with the NCR, we can finally talk to Yaunker face to face

>>1988681
>if you rule California and now one lives there, we aren't really an Empire

I'd argue you'd still be an Empire

And Empire Of One

>>1988883
BOOOOOOO! GET OFF THE STAGE!

>>1988870
Yeah, but the factions are pretty independantly powerful. East coast has pretty wide area to just expand into.
Mid West is warring with the MLA and has a significant robot force

Chicago guys maybe exist?

>>1988870
or, we could roll them into us.

assuming of course they arent talking to elijah, which of course they are because they were familiar with holograms.

>>1988922
the NCR? No way Elijah is daling with them. He hates the NCR with a passion.

>>1988922
Oh you meant the Elijah and the BOS. I doubt it.
Elijah also hates the BOS for being weak failures. Seems he is using the MLA, or at least picking apart the remains of their battles, with the rocka and roll voodoo.

>>1988935
my opinion is that elijah is certainly using the MLA. And he might have taken the opportunity presented by their loss to convince the rogue Brotherhood that he was right all along. I mean.... considering how shit went down he would sound pretty convincing.

And it would explain why they are familiar with hologram tech which is by no means wide spread.

>>1988959
>9
Right. And end of the line, ELijah is the biggest imminent threat to use. He would do anything to get to us after all we put him through. If he sides with the MLA, then by default, we're pushed to side with the NCR.
Especially since he's probably going to turn everyone into ghosts and put all of America under a red fog.

>>1988991
This. I mean, we could even get the MLA and NCR to stop fighting if Elijah became a big enough fight. I don't think we truly understand how powerful he is.

Gonna attempt some phone postings.

On the topic of robotics research, advancing the loader technology + passive production including constructors would greatly help steel income in the divide which along with energy are main priorities.

Youth extensions would be beneficial to continue though ahs-9 states that state neurological and psionic research is warranted. Both groups, except the more ethical types, agree more specimens are needed for experimentation. And bigger specimen pens.

>>1989068
We're going to depopulate the raider population of the North.

Are there any legends about us among raiders/general populace?

>>1989118
You don't need legends. You have survivors.

Most people agree, living under raiders is bad. Isn't it swell to live in our free and isolated america? Protected by an army of robots and our heroic leader!

The freed slaves can't complain too much about freedom, but quietly lament their loved ones still in bondage or worse. Some wish we were more like the NCR, fighting to free the slaves rather than dealing and perpetuating it, but they don't say this openly.

Ironically some of the freed slaves wonder if legion slaves actually have it better. Your old populace still hate the legion more out of traditional history.

arcade hates them all.

>>1989145
you know, we could just shut the slave trade down entirely by raiding them and bagging all the slavers for experiments.

huge PR win, good population boost, lots of experimenting resources, its like a win-win-win

>>1989145
The Freed slaves I'm general are also the lucky ones. Notwithstanding being purchased but they have most of their health and their minds and have useful skills or talents. So many more do not

>>1989145
Ah man, if only we could get everyone in this thread on the side of the NCR. Having us fight for freedom from slavery would be so good for PR, and would really give us the America image we want.

>>1989173
Exactly.
I don't understand how anyone thinks we can portray ourselves as liberators, especially after we are directly responsible for the enslavement of the entire MLA. Somehow some anons thing people will buy that.

>>1989186
>Brain
"What is the saying 'history is written by victor'.

nobody knows who said it, but logically they couldn't have said it if they lost.

Surely we just need to be the victor."

>>1989200
But we can't really rewrite history on that level, can we? Everyone knows the MLA and Legion are slavers, so if we work with them, we are working with people that go against everything America stands for. Some editing here and there is one thing, but changing such a large part of history is impossible short of mass brainwashing

>>1989173
>>1989186

I'm completely for it. I know we have one or two guys who are EXTREMELY opposed to it but don't let their unending arguments paint the picture as if everyone is on their side.

I don't evenmind if it means openly waging war against MLA and Legion.

>>1989236
Well then maybe we should put it to a vote, at least to see where everyone stands. Most anons here don't like to argue 24/7 so they're the silent majority.

Plus, if we tell the NCR we want to negotiate about entering the war, we could even have a face to face conversation with Yaunker

>>1989250
This kind of vote should run for a long time as we have people participating from all over the world.

>>1989200
Except that is a flawed concept that is inaccurate.

If we were to full stop side with the NCR, It would be impossible to convince people who lived through the war that we didn't. Well we could if we brainwashed everyone, but that just piles lies on lies, and everything collapses.

Anyhow, if we sided with the MLA against the NCR, the NCR citizens would know it. Yaunker would publicize the betrayal like hell. Then, when we betray the MLA, do you really think the ex-NCR citizens would bend over and kiss our feet for it?

>>1989281
If QM would post a vote, a long running vote , basically drawing lines in the sand, on where people stand. It wouldn't be definite or anything, but it would help clear up arguments.

>>1989200
Do you think we could do something like this? I would put up the vote, but I think people would gloss over it

http://www.strawpoll.me/14191946

>>1989290
>>1989285

Something Akin to this?

>>1989301
Or If Need be I can remake it with Different options/questions depending on Anons opinion.

>>1989301
>http://www.strawpoll.me/14191946
The third option is kinda what would happen regardless for a while. We are in no position to be fighting anyone right now.
Unless it is supposed to mean, build up and attack everyone.

>>1989318
Well I was thinking that we give tech support and high-tech support, while building up our forces, so we could open a new front

>>1989301
>>1989319
>>1989290
Come home from work and you fucks are voting to side with the worse of everybody. Wew fucking lads. I'm so glad you kids don't have anything to do productive in the day.

>>1989327
>mad for no reason
huh

>>1989319
>>1989323

What do you think a better wording of the options would be?

I can remake the Poll to support more options for a better consensus.

>>1989327
My personal Vote is to build up and fight everybody, not to team up with anyone.

>>1989328
>Mad for no reason


I guess this magic strawpoll and talking about siding with the NCR is nothing huh?

>>1989338
Is fighting everyone something we can realistically do though?

>>1989348
It depends on a lot of variables. As of this thread, no it's not.

Depends on how much we improve upon everything while we are building up.

>>1989338
>Informally Ally with the NCR and start providing material help while building up forces

>Formally help the NCR while shifting into war economy

>continue to informally help the MLA with material while building up forces for attack on NCR

>Formally declare war on NCR and shift into War economy

>Maintain Equilibrium with the intent of declaring war on both

That's kinda what the thread boils down into

>>1989340
>some poll that has no effect on the quest and only clears up confusion
Wow that's really fucking terrible

>>1989338
Or you don't encourage the stupidity of people, and let it set because we still won't be ready for war for some time. We need to actually produce enough robots/humans to match whoever we fight. The NCR has both numbers and tech to match us. MLA/Legion has the numbers and bullshit of gods? to use against us.

We should be doing what we are, and picking apart the winning side to ensure it stays in a stalement and they drain as much manpower/resources/time as possible and let us build up more.

>>1989348
Not at all currently.

>>1989352
>Thinks nobody reads the bullshit talks about 'if only we could get majority to help the NCR win!'

Whatever you say senpai.

Tbh keeping your options open has been the modus operandi, if you want to stick to a side now it's best to vote it into action/diplomacy in thread.

>>1989362
That vote would need to be open an entire thread or two QM. You have people from across the literal world who posts here and thats a fuck huge choice.

>>1989359
I've made my opinion on the situation very clear, but I haven't been unfair to any side of the argument

>>1989362
The vote that we made above isn't anything official, like I said, it is just to see where people's minds lie. If we want to continue with an actual official thing, we'll do it in the Diplomacy turn in the thread

>>1989327
Lmao

We've heard the arguments from both sides ad nauseum. No need to be a dipshit about it. People are going to vote what they think is right.

Besides, it's not like this is an official poll or that we can't change our opinion as quest progresses

>>1989352
http://www.strawpoll.me/14192136 Version 2. Better than mine for sure.

File: fallout.png (1.13 MB, 1000x1141)

1.13 MB PNG

>>1989385
Sounds pretty good Anon, thanks.

Have the only fallout related pic I have

File: 13-HWL_3_11.png (107 KB, 640x480)

107 KB PNG

>>1989392
Thanks man. Here's this pic I looked up after we had our Power Armor Size discussion over just how big old school power armor is.

Not sure how canon it actually is because its modded...


..... Its the only fallout pic I have on my phone.

>>1989401
That's why I liked the Fallout 4 power armor system more. It made me feel like some fucking superhuman

>>1988406
>green grass
Well it is an idea state. We're a little bit away from presenting the image of perfect nuclear families.

Glad you enjoyed though. Hope they provide a bonus.

>>1989186
We will fight against the MLA...eventually, once we're stronger.

First we take down Elijah, then the Legion, then the NCR and MLA at the same time.

Also, it's hardly like our dealings with them are super public. As far as anyone knows, we just trade caps for slaves and then free them - hardly a despicable act.

>>1989503
Except if Elijah is working with the MLA like we think, then attacking one is attacking the other. And we can't let Elijah live, so the only possibility is going to war with all 3 of them, Elijah, MLA and legion.

>>1989561
Ok I missed something. When did we start thinking Elijah is Working with the people?

>>1989591
When the mustard gas was used I think

>>1989602
Oh that weird red mist shit? Yeah, that was weird

Maybe we could just ask Niner

>>1989617
(Some times I will show you battles purely for your meta enjoyment.)

How about I say that most of those important details were told to you b the forecaster or one of SPI's drones. If you wish to act upon it.

>>1989633
Well time to browse the archives. Wish me luck

Alright, so the map we have of the surrounding area definitely shows the Sierra Madre right next to MLA and Legion territory, so having contact with the two isn't impossible to fathom.

>>1989285
>If we were to full stop side with the NCR, it would be impossible to convince people who lived through the war that we didn't.
That's because the NCR would be the victor, not us.

>>1989617
>>1989633
If we're okay saying that we know about some of the details of the battle, asking Niner about Elijah seems like a good idea - will likely have to be next turn though

>>1989797
The problem though, is if it is considered "Meta"

I suppose just asking anyway is okay

>>1989782
I meant MLA there. If we side with the MLA and win, we will never be able to convince all the californians that we meant to liberate them.
Oops

>>1989817
Oh, well we wouldn't really have to. We give the Californians under us a comfortable life and they're unlikely to revolt in large numbers against us for the sake of their brothers.

Then if we've done that and they have kids and the kids also have comfortable lives then the kids won't really care about how their parents tell them "Yeah, they're bad men!"

Repeat for a few generations and eventually no one cares, then eventually no one remembers either.

>>1989839
I really think you're overestimating the "Bread and Circuses" idea. California is highly nationalistic right now, a strong sense of community, so if we let half their country get raped and murdered, while we tell the other half that we're champions of freedom and liberty, it's not gonna fly too well

>>1989851
Luckily killer robots are particularly effective at maintaining domestic order. House knew what he was doing at least.

>>1989851
It goes away eventually. Just a matter of time. Not that I'm advocating one way or another but memories CAN be erased for practical purposes.

>>1989874
so you want to erase millions of peoples memories for something that could have been avoided?

>>1989886
I'm sorry, I thought that I had included-

Oh wait, yeah I did. Well let's try this again then.

>Not that I'm advocating one way or another

>>1989923
So let me get this straight then. You want to be impartial to this argument, so then you say >>1989839 with your argument being "people will forget about their fellow countrymen being raped because they have a home to live in" and I say that doesn't work to well, so you then say "we can just brainwash them"

It doesn't seem like you're much arguing for the other side of this issue

>>1989944
Ok dude, stuff it back in your pants.

We will not side with the NCR because "its the moral thing to do". We will side with them when they are on their knees and begging. We will swoop in and take control of the situation and the NCR when we decide it is time. Until then we keep bleeding all sides while we build up ourselves. Until we are at a point where we can comfortably put up a fight we keep providing high-tech support to the losing side to maintain a stalemate. hats the way it is. Deal with it and stop injecting your moralfaggotry.

>>1989984
>moralfaggotry
Nowhere in the above post have I brought up the morality. I was just talking about how it makes no logical sense for people to forget what happened to their countrymen because they got some luxuries. That's all. If you want to point to my moral faggotry, there are better posts to do it from.

Quit being an edgy faggot

>>1989944
No, I say ""people will forget about their fellow countrymen being raped because they have a home to live in and most of them won't have directly seen their fellow countrymen get raped either."

Then I say "Again, see the above."

The point being to demonstrate that the particular argument you're attempting to employ (that people's memories can't be erased) is invalid, regardless of which side I'm actually on.

As an aside, I'm of the personal opinion that Clausewitz is right and that the kindest thing you can do with regards to warfare is make sure it is as short-lived as possible, regardless of what means you employ to achieve that goal. So if allying with the MLA against the NCR and then usurping the MLA brings about the end of the war faster then I'm all for it! Same with unleashing the Think Tank on human test subjects. Anything to win, faster.

>>1989984
We are going to side with the NCR because its the best choice for us and our future. It means we get rid of Elijah before he stabs us in the back, it gets us access to plenty of resources, while being safer, and in the end, we end up with more citizens.
Don't dismiss all arguments you don't like as moral faggotry.

>>1990026
The kindest thing is the one with least deaths and human suffering. Or was the great war "kinder" than every war before it? It only lasted a day after all.

Siding with the NCR may prolong the war a bit, but it could also speed it up, but in the end, more people are likely around to rebuild after. Or do we not care about the people anymore?

>>1990026
But my argument isn't invalid. If we are teaming up with the MLA and Legion, then it makes no sense that the people wouldn't resent us for either, not liberating the rest of the NCR as we are the "kindest", working with the MLA/Legion at all, proclaiming we are the new America and we want freedom and liberty while working with people like the MLA, or a combination of all three. Then you said that we can just "brainwash" them to like us, unless you were being metaphorical about that.

And with the point being that the quicker the war, the less suffering, we can only achieve that if ONLY we attacked the NCR because we can be not only the quickest, but the most humane.

>>1990033
How do you see us gaining shit and not Yaunker taking us over?? Assuming we join him now and win, he will be hailed as the badass who saved everyone while we will be relegated to a client state and slowly eaten since we could never run against a man like that.

On the other hand, if we bleed every faction and bide our time we can swoop in and take control of everything ourselves. Seems mighty more useful to me. The only question here would be the BoS and their actions.

Besides, if Elijah decides to attack there is nobody who can really give him a fight right now. Nobody is prepared for a conflict in the cloud. We might as well shelve him until we can splurge the resources (since we can track the cloud we know how far along he is).

>>1990006
I admit the post itself is sub-par for the argument but it was not directed at the post but you.

>>1990047
>>1990052
You two need to realize we will never openly take part in conflict when we are still this small. We will use subterfuge and black ops to take targets of value and keep our involvement plausibly deniable. Meaning even if Yaunker knows we are stabbing him the people will cheer when we show up to save the day against the MLA/Legion once we have bled all sides enough that we are a major player.

>>1990047
The Great War is ongoing, in case you haven't noticed neither government submitted to the other. That's the problem, it's still in the destructive phase, we're fighting the end it and get into the constructive phase.

>>1990052
>Ally with MLA/Legion
>Trounce NCR
>Subsequently trounce the MLA/Legion, because they're weaker than the NCR
>Institute our state
>The people see that we were the expert rusemen
>All's good, man.

I fail to see the problem here.

>>1990090
This post was so baffling it was hard for me to respond....

So you want to ally with the MLA, let the NCR lose, then turn immediately around and back stab our "allies", take over California, hope that the above mentioned rape and murder doesn't take place, and then hopefully our people don't think that we're snakes because we worked with someone and immediately stabbed them in the back?

I'd point out this is a massive waste of time, resources and effort over something we've yet to reach the point of deciding.

How about, for now, we just focus on doing shit that actually matters? For example asking questions of our various NPC allies to get a feeling for how strong we are, where we could improve most easily and so on.


Also we need to update our securitron forces to the MK 6 which will double their effectiveness, expand our housing and possibly start sending stuff to Montana.

>>1990090
The great war ended in 1 day with everyone dead.
Just because no one signed a peace deal doesn't mean the war didn't end.

>People see we are a ruseman
>a ruseman who got them enslaved and raped
>reject us
>civil war
>Everyone is dead

>>1990088
If we don't actually engage in open combat, and claiming territory we won't get anything.

And even if we operate in the shadows, Both sides are going to still know we are attacking them. And they will tell everyone, so we won't be greated with open arms when we liberate the NCR in your scenario because EVERYONE KNOWS ITS OUR FAULT.

>>1990127
There's something I can agree on. We should call
a council of our generals and scientists and talk about our war preparedness. We then can make a sort of "5 year plan" so we don't waste hours talking ourselves into circles.

I for one am done debating until we get some actual work done so we can see what our capabilities are

>>1990112
No no, I want to
>Ally with the MLA
>Let the NCR lose
>Backstab our allies at earliest opportunity that offers a reasonable opportunity of succeeding in taking them over
>I don't care if the rape and murder takes place
>Our people will get over it, especially seeing as we're freeing folks from rapists and murderers

>>1990130
>The Great War ended in 1 day with everyone dead.
Right, that's why there are all these people around. And the Enclave, and whatever the Chinese Shadow Government is that surely carries on.

>People see we are a ruseman
>a ruseman who saved them from those who enslaved and raped them as soon as they could*
>thank us*
>Everyone is glad*

>>1990144
I mean, alternatively we can side with the folks who are performing a genocide on tribals I guess. Whatever people think is more morally acceptable. One of these is definitely easier to justify backstabbing to our citizens though, while neither is morally acceptable in my personal view.

>>1990144
People who were raped and enslaed don't really forgive the person who got them raped and enslaved.
They will know we are involved with the MLA and Legion, they will never accept us, It is a dumb plan.

>Right, that's why there are all these people around. And the Enclave, and whatever the Chinese Shadow Government is that surely carries on.
Are you intentionally thick? The great war is over. Everyone lost. Everything going on is different shit. Enclave isn't part of the great war or the shadow government.

We still got them raped and they know it.
No one will be glad.

>>1990167
>Allow me to repeat what I'm saying even though the other anon keeps explaining why I'm wrong.

The shadow government is literally the continuation of the US Gov. They may've changed a bit from when they originated 200 years ago, but then again if the US were still around as a state it would've changed over 200 years too.

As an aside, yeah that's the problem I mentioned. Nobody WON. I guess I should've included that bit that I thought was obvious there, you want to shorten the war and WIN too. It does no good to shorten the war if you lose, though I would like to point out that a shorter war where you lose is still (excepting the special case you're mentioning, which is a straw man anyway) better for all involved parties.