War, war never changes.http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=Fallout%2C+Civ%2C+Courier%2C+New+Vegas%2C+Enclave%2C+AmericaLast Thread>>1888700You are the Courier. The message you bring is of a Commwealth resurgent, a newly reformed Phoenix Commonwealth of America whose message is of liberty and freedom under your watchful tutelage and governance. Miracles of science and technology are at your right and left hand, but you are not alone in this feat as to your west the NCR also discovers its own wonders (and a few stolen from you).On another note, today is December 2287. You left the Mojave (to Caesar) around the the end of 2282 (Benny shot you on 2281).
ZAX(SPI): "Upload complete"The Spi gives you a map of some of the major NCR locations she's surveyed. It's not an all inclusive map and there may be some other towns, facilities or such not listed but these where what she could get in a months time.Items with Yellow Bolts are areas of high power usage or traffic, and likely sources of something special.Items with Blue bolts are power generating stations or factories.She has files for many of these locations, at least the ones with yellow bolts. You may ask about them if you wish.
brb, i got the thread started but will return soon. Take this time to look at the map and see if you have any specific questions. I'll be working on the turn from last thread
>>1933146>The Phoenix Commonwealth of America's home territory is a tiny spot on the map.Huh. So that's how small our territories actually looked like.>>1933154Do we have parts of Utah claimed already, the ones who are a protectorate or vassal of us?
>>1933146Are the Boomers shooting their guns from Boomertown? Because if so, they have overpowered as fuck 100 mile range artillery guns. Whack man. Does SPI have a passive overview of things or will we still need to spend actions for it (passive as in if there is a mobilization of a town we will know about it)?Why is the Mojave National Preserve not taken by us? Is it radstorms?What does SPI know about Shi and Boomertown areas? How can we take out the Emperor (or take over) and what are the vulnerable parts of Boomertown (an ammo dumb right beneath the guns, for example)?What is the percentile power production capacity of every major power hub? Which is the most vulnerable? Same for factories.Where is High Command (the actual, not beurocrats)? Where does Yaunker live? Is Oddball in his casino?What is the most secret thing it learned? Any big project (ion thrusters, more ZAX)?Where is the ZAX?
>>1933160As far as I'm aware, not officially lest you alert the Legion, MLA, or NCR. Your contacts in Utah are mainly the independant tribals in Zion no?
>>1933164I Don't think spi got that in depth of a look at things. Just noted "stuff is here, high traffic"So we arent getting specifics of what project happens where or an in depth look at their power usage.
>>1933176Large information cable means high communication bulk. Large powercables means either lots of production or lots of consumption of power. If you see a place with a huge power cable next to a beefy IT cable you can guess theres a big computer there. It might not be the ZAX but a powerful calculator nontheless. It might not know exactly but educated guesses are ok too.
>>1933164>Why is the Mojave National Preserve not taken by us? Is it radstorms?I believe when we drew the borders around our current lands, we weren't sure about some things and thus attempted to avoid claiming lands held by the legion / NCR or drawing ourselves too close to them. So we mostly made sure we had a border with the Divide and that we had ourselves and unity within our borders.Now, as to actual good targets, I would direct the attention of everyone to the so-called "battle mountain" spearhead of the NCR into the MLA. If we were to deploy a few small nuclear warheads from the divide surface (like those the courier can detonate with the laser designator) into whatever supply route they have in the region, we could render their position either unsustainable or even entirely isolated for a period. A great win for the MLA but doubtful it would actually do more than delay the inevitable in regards to the NCR's push. It would however result in a significant loss of manpower and resources for the NCR along with moral damage. Not to mention placing the high value regions of Gecko (nuclear power plant) and Vault city within striking range of the MLA.Another potential target would be either Ft. Steel if we wished to cut off the NCR's main push into the Legion but that would require getting the MLA to provide the actual forces to take and hold the land after we eliminate the defences or the Ridgecrest air force base. The elimination of which would greatly weaken the NCR's control of their borders with the Legion and MLA but they will most likely have other bases to allow for basing and shit. Logically speaking therefore, if we wished to make a strike against them there, we'd need to be smart, fast and stealthy. If we can destroy their airforce in the south we grant the MLA and the Legion respite as well as striking a serious blow against the NCR's morale.
>>1933164It's more like 100km, or 62miles. Spi was not able to take an inside look at the kind of weapons being fired, but from a distance she was able to calculate the trajectory of one of the shots as well as observing some previous shots. By now the guns are fairly silent, as the Legion has already been pushed back.
>>1933178But if you lookat where the lightning bolt symbols are they are either cities ir fortresses, both of which is where one expects high capacity cables and plenty if power.This is all assuming that it isnt located in some secret mountain complex locked uo tighter than a virgins butthole, with no power in or out and wireless communications only turnes on when needed.
>>1933184Okay, so Boomertown isn't a high priority so long as the Legion is as far back as they are...we could change that.
>>1933164>Does SPI have a passive overviewNope. She went around with her subterrine peeking through periscope and scouting out with stealthed Assaultrons. There were a few close calls and a few self destructs, but nothing but slag remained from those.>Why is the Mojave National Preserve not taken by us?There isn't much there to speak of. Niether you or the Legion much care for it. Most of your patrols are centered around your usable locations.>con't
>>1933184Gotcha, makes more sense now. Schwerer Gustaf is okay. Over that is a bit iffy.>>1933185We CAN actually take a look inside the city as well, since you cant really route that much power through low power lines (its in the name). So this means that even the secret bases and doomforts need to have a power station, relay or other infrastructure near it, thus making it detectable. I dont expect we can walk just in but we CAN spot a power station next to a straw hut in the middle of nowhere.
>>1933191>Nope. She went around with her subterrine peeking through periscope and scouting out with stealthed Assaultrons. There were a few close calls and a few self destructs, but nothing but slag remained from those.How much would she need for a light passive network? Main troop movements, large projects, local news, that sort of thing.>>1933191>There isn't much there to speak of.Just dirt? No trees/grass, no water? Caves?
>>1933194Or inside it. It seems like a strategic liability to have your forts power generation located outside if your base. No ones building a generator next ti some random hut.As fir cities, we can probably tell there is power generation near by, but unless we had all the donestic power usage data, all we can really know is that the generator powers the city. No way of bowing if any of the buildings are secret government think tanks or what have you from our position.
>>1933202>power generation located outside if your baseA sub-station, since if the country has a large power grid it would be illogical to build generators everywhere instead of where it is cheap and easy (economics of scale). And even if the generator is underground, the network cables still have to run out.As to cities, I dont want exact wattage, I want ballpark estimates of which locations are most important and what the weaknesses are.
>>1933207Except havibg you fortress tied to the power grid just adds a vulnerability. Electrinics would be able to be shut down by a guy with a shovel an axe. Security would mean forts have internal power.And secret bases would definitely have their own power. Mainly because the logistics would not be in their favour if they choose hard to reach locations.With how bot organized the BCR were until recently, and lack of public spending, im fairly certain every city has their own power source, even if now they are connected in one grid.
Main point is we have objectives to act on now. My first obvious recommendation is that we shouldn't get too involved in long range military affairs since they are risky as hell and will take too long / too much, reducing our resources for civilian affairs like Montana or New Washington. However, we can potentially have SPI perform a raid on the NCR's nearby airbase and eliminate as many of their planes and pilots as she can. One kinda insane idea would be to have her disable their radar array and then steal all the planes out from under them, flying them over Ft. Steel (after getting the MLA to begin a push) and bombing the shit out of it before landing them in the MLA and selling them or flying south, through the legion, back to our lands to study and use. This would require not only that we could sneak into the base and disable the radar but that our robots could get onto the planes and either eliminate the crews (in flight), before take off or steal them before they board. Not to mention then needing to fly them back.Still, it's something to consider if we could get them the ability to fly the NCR's planes.
>>1933254Problem is we don't have the ability to fly NCR planes. And you seem to be assuming they wont just shoot down any of their planes that leave during a crisis like the radar going down.
>>1933272True but to be honest my primary plan would essentially be blowing them the hell up. Blowing everything we can up in general. This is just a "ideal outcome" concept. Also, I did state that it ain't possible currently (probably) but my main point was that this'd be a way to fuck with the NCR.Plus, I doubt the NCR has that many if any AA guns scattered around the base seeing as the MLA lacks long range aircraft and the Legion lacks aircraft. Plus we could eliminate those too if it came down to it.
>>1933280It takes a bit for a plane to take off. And they arent armoured or anything. Lots of things someone can do to disable a plane taking off. Shoot the cockpit, throw grenade, park a truck in front of the runway.
Ideas for now.Any chance of seizing Sierra Madre? controlling the weather could make expansion into Alaska easy as pie.remember that NCR Battleship? fly SPI and some backup bots out to it and capture it. then turn it around and bombard all those juicy coastal power plants. Should stall the NCR industry.Taking over the tank town from the northern territories is a great idea. it also nets us all the subordinate towns who can easily be made more stable, self sufficient, modern, and profitable.if we need to disrupt the NCR even further plant a genetically enhanced super strain of giant ants beneath the Shi and let them grow.
>>1933284>It takes a bit for a plane to take off. True but it also takes a long time for them to figure out something is off and decide to do something as dangerous as you are suggesting.>And they aren't armoured or anything. The NCR is using pre-war designs like B-29's. They can certainly take a fair hit. Anything that should be able to damage them would only be able to do so assuming they were above a certain height thanks to the fact most AA weapons don't exactly aim below a certain angle. Not to mention that they do carry significant armaments and could most likely suppress or destroy those weapons.>Lots of things someone can do to disable a plane taking off. Shoot the cockpit, throw grenade, park a truck in front of the runway.And most of those things are incredibly stupid to do or wouldn't work on robots. Seeing as they'd resist a frag grenade and most guns.>>1933298>Any chance of seizing Sierra Madre? controlling the weather could make expansion into Alaska easy as pie.Nope, Elijah has it.>remember that NCR Battleship? fly SPI and some backup bots out to it and capture it. then turn it around and bombard all those juicy coastal power plants. Should stall the NCR industry.True but the main problem is that we'd probably fail.We should however "Terror from the deep" the shit out of them with modified aquatic robots.>Taking over the tank town from the northern territories is a great idea. it also nets us all the subordinate towns who can easily be made more stable, self sufficient, modern, and profitable.Agreed. Political marriage, invasion or what?Personally I'd point out that the colonies are seemingly free to leave but choose not to do based off of them lacking a better choice for a ruler so if we are better and stronger they'll come.>if we need to disrupt the NCR even further plant a genetically enhanced super strain of giant ants beneath the Shi and let them grow.That might work but, and I want you to hear me out here, what if we were to push the creatures of the sea out? Mirelurks are susceptible to sonic waves and can thus be directed towards the coast and thus into the NCR. Not to mention it only requires we have a dozen or so boats with sonic projectors.
>>1933298The madre requires fighting elijah. Which would be a fight and a half.The battleship wont so easily be "captured" like that. Best bet is just sink it. And even if we do capture it, it would get sunk pretty quickly from bombers and such.No giant ants. Can you not see the pretty certain issues with letting loose a fast breeding biological weapon. Its going to ruin everything, everywhere.
>>1933309We need to kill Elijah sooner or later.backing SPI up with a squad of Crimson Dragoons makes taking the ship more likely.Not a bad idea, but not a huge priority.The barons seem like a group of corrupt shitheads. power is probably split between families. Straight up conquering it might be preferable. Perhaps ally with the most agreeable Baroness and marry her for legitimacy. Use Fusion and Replitech to jump them to post scarcity and drop taxes for the resource towns to the bare minimum.Each town looks to be forced to specialize in one thing so that none of them can go independant. The tank city uses its airforce and artillery to kill raiders, but also to prevent caravans and trading. Also all their other options are shitty. upgrading our portal tech would allow us to turn the seperate cities into one giant distributed mega city.then we can turn the tank city into a post scarcity juggernaut of expansion. the only question is if we send it west into Alaska, South into the NCR, South into the legion, East into who knows what, or North into Calgary, Edmonton, and Fort McMurray.>>1933310I admit the ant idea might be a bit of an over reaction.
>>1933353>We need to kill Elijah sooner or later.Yeah, personally my solution is to colony drop the bastard out of existence. That or a lunar laser / disintegration beam.>backing SPI up with a squad of Crimson Dragoons makes taking the ship more likely.That would be far harder and far riskier. Easier to just make more infiltration assaultrons with aquatic enhancements and calling it a day.>Each town looks to be forced to specialise in one thing so that none of them can go independent. The tank city uses its air force and artillery to kill raiders, but also to prevent caravans and trading. Also all their other options are shitty. upgrading our portal tech would allow us to turn the separate cities into one giant distributed mega city.True but to be honest, I'd just give them a nice rail network seeing as they'd not exactly be going between towns frequently and could just ride with the cargo.>then we can turn the tank city into a post scarcity juggernaut of expansion. the only question is if we send it west into Alaska, South into the NCR, South into the legion, East into who knows what, or North into Calgary, Edmonton, and Fort McMurray.I'd say we send it north since that'd push into the Legion who'd struggle to beat it even slightly.
>>1933367>Easier to just make more infiltration assaultrons with aquatic enhancements and calling it a day.Were probably not going to be keeping the ship anyways, so the most efficient way to deal with it us probably jsut blow it up. Whether it is a torpedo or a bomb in the ammo bays.>I'd say we send it north since that'd push into the Legion who'd struggle to beat it even slightlynorth is MLA. So is the west. South is legion, but we cant exactly send it down there without support.
>>1933371>Were probably not going to be keeping the ship anyways, so the most efficient way to deal with it us probably jsut blow it up. Whether it is a torpedo or a bomb in the ammo bays.True. Problem is that you Americans had pretty good damage control systems on your ships in WW 2, not to mention whatever the pre-war and NCR governments have done to it...so we'd need some sort of large nuclear explosive or something to eliminate it for sure.>north is MLA. So is the west. South is legion, but we cant exactly send it down there without support.Canada is held by the Legion as well so we can send it north to claim the frozen expanses.
>>1933381The NCR probably isnt expecting a naval fight, so I don't see them improvibg the armour if the existing design is fine. And we are working with more advanced torpedo tech. Think less topredo and more remote controled mini-sub filled with c4.Parts of Canada are held by the legion. And anyways, i doubt the northern legion is much of a concern when they are seperated so thoroughly from home and cesear.
>>1933395>The NCR probably isnt expecting a naval fight, so I don't see them improvibg the armour if the existing design is fine. And we are working with more advanced torpedo tech. Think less topredo and more remote controled mini-sub filled with c4.Not armour. Bulkheads, pumps and other counter-flooding measures. As to what you are advising we detonate within it...it could work if placed slightly into the hull so as to crack it rather than piercing it since it would compromise more of the ship.>Parts of Canada are held by the legion. And anyways, i doubt the northern legion is much of a concern when they are seperated so thoroughly from home and cesear.It's not a question of being a concern, it's the fact that they can easily be defeated and thus we can box the NCR in on one side while getting a lovely area of land to cover in solar arrays, geothermal power stations and other such things. Allowing us to relax slightly in regards to expanding north into Canada and Alaska and instead focus on either going east or south.
>>1933381I don't think it's a WW2 ship man, I think it's a restored pre war modern battleship. But I could be wrong.>>1933403I still think Anchorage could be a gold mine of late war resources. And a safe gateway into the USSR and China.Most important, none of the factions can get to any factories we put in China, Alaska, or further. And portals means we can pull massive resources to any of our bases.
>>1933412>I don't think it's a WW2 ship man, I think it's a restored pre war modern battleship. But I could be wrong.It is a WW 2 ship. It's a thing from the Frontier but I remember it having the name of a WW 2 battleship of the Americans.>I still think Anchorage could be a gold mine of late war resources. And a safe gateway into the USSR and China.True but I've always felt that just going underwater all the way and salvaging ship wrecks as we go and shit.>Most important, none of the factions can get to any factories we put in China, Alaska, or further. And portals means we can pull massive resources to any of our bases.True. To be honest the surface area is the thing we need more than anything else long term to support low input power generation so we can just sustain massive replicator factories to kill the NCR / MLA / Legion / BOS / Whoever we piss off next.
>>1933412Its the Iowa, first launched in 1942. But retrofitted alot, so i fuess it would be pretty modern.Be careful when thibkibg there is anywgere absolutely safe. China likely has its own factions we would have to deal with, and alaska. Probably has some military elements doing things for the past 200 yrs.
>>1933424According to google, with modern technology, there is 15 to 18 million acres of arable land. If nothing else, the Legion should have some holdings there.
>>1933436What, Alberta?Pretty much all Alberta has going for it is wheat and oil, so food was never an issue. I was speaking more about lack of communication and support from the main legion body.
>>1933486And they are quite possibly the only faction that could survive a lack of communication thanks to their cohesive structure and culture.Fact is that they are all the more a threat because they have established supply lines and such in a region where we have little if not no experience.
>>1933421>>1933424So an old warship retrofitted to "modern" standards. I can see why they spent time on it.The thing with Alaska is its in the grips of a nuclear turbowinter. Unity can function just fine due to her complete control over her body, but regular folks probably need special power armor to survive outside. I suspect any civilization up there is living in heated domes supported by hydroponics. Or burning a fuckton of oil to stay warm.Either way we can offer them an abundance of food which is likely a great inducement to join ranks.
>>1933146Wow, if the Legion were threatening the NCR Caputal at one point, they've really been pushed back. The MLA's spearhead attack makes much more sense now.The position of the cloud worries me, we have to deal with Elijah soon. QM, could you add Montana and the Northern Barons to the map?
>>1933603>Wow, if the Legion were threatening the NCR Caputal at one point, they've really been pushed back. True but I have a few ideas about how to stabilise the borders again. Mostly providing the Legion with some new weapons...>The MLA's spearhead attack makes much more sense now.Agreed and to be honest I hope it is very successful. >The position of the cloud worries me, we have to deal with Elijah soon. Eh, he's been expanding for a few years now. We've got another half a decade before I feel he will make his move.>QM, could you add Montana and the Northern Barons to the map?As much as I want this, it took so long to get this much.
>>1933627Yeah, but we want to move at the legion soon, so arming them up isnt really in our best interests. And its not like they would deal. We betrayed cesears trust personally.
So what's the plan with Montana? Are we gonna diplomance them into annexation or will we go with my plan to take them over militarily?
>>1933635I'd argue that moving against the Legion is slightly less advisable than it once was. I want to focus on Montana and other such projects than getting into a protracted land war against the attrition war Legion.Seriously, we can't fight against their raw numbers. At least not any time soon.Plus, they'd be reliant on us for ammo and the weapons themselves for the most part if not entirely. So that'd limit their ability to make use of them against us seeing as how many they'd probably use against the NCR.
>>1933642I think we need to see how amenable the baron is before we decide whether we use diplomacy or not. And also build up more.
>>1933642Individual villages and towns? Diplomatic takeover by a mix of military intimidation (eliminating all the raiders in the area alongside their warriors, showing how much stronger we are), technological awe (outposts, robot armies and all that), generosity (all this shit for free if they join us) and so on. Plus the Courier has 10 Charisma and shit.Actual nation structures like the Barons? Military where needed, diplomatic where preferable.
>>1933648Except legion has gunsmiths of their own. Pretty decent guns too. Brush guns and assault rifles. And the bounty that we get from the dam and bew vegas would be more than worth it in the long run. Im not suggesting taking out the entire legion, but just the mojave area. It also gets us a border with the madre, which would be useful when we have to deal with Elijah.
>>1933660>Individual villages and towns?I don't imagine they'll be Individual towns left, seems like everybody has picked a side between the Barons and the BoS so they can be protected against raiders.
>>1933666>Except legion has gunsmiths of their own. Pretty decent guns too. Brush guns and assault rifles. True but seeing as what I want to sell them is something along the lines of the PIAT, they'd struggle to produce enough ammo. Anyhow, the logic I am operating off of is that the Legion is going to be beaten by air power more than anything else. Bombers, close air support and all that sort of thing rather than ground forces.>And the bounty that we get from the dam and new Vegas would be more than worth it in the long run. Most of the benefit could be gained without seizing the surface. The vaults, the river and such.>>1933670True but if there are any, we'd want to get them if we can. I'd also say that getting the BOS's towns under our control might be easier than the Barons since the BOS are actively warring with the raiders.
>>1933691>True but if there are any, we'd want to get them if we can. I'd also say that getting the BOS's towns under our control might be easier than the Barons since the BOS are actively warring with the raiders.I wonder if we could assimilate the BoS in Montana, i expect it's gonna be a bit troublesome, even more so depending on what their relationship with the Midwester BoS is like.
>>1933691Some things are underground, but other things are not. The dam at least needs to have its surface controlled inorder to do the work needed to repair it. And holding just the dam leaves us surrounded. If were claiming the dam, we might as well clear the rest of the mojave.
>>1933694Yeah but if we come from a position of strength it will be all the easier. Taking their support out from under them would certainly do that.>>1933698I've made my opinion regarding the dam clear. I feel it is entirely possible to repair and use the dam without seizing the surface.
>>1933711>I feel it is entirely possible to repair and use the dam without seizing the surface.What? How? Do you want to dig hundreds of miles of tunnels? Or how have you figured this?
>>1933739>What? How? Do you want to dig hundreds of miles of tunnels? Or how have you figured this?You are aware that we have a tunneller that makes a airtight hexcrete tunnel as it goes, yeah?Well it could get to there and between all the vaults no problem given we made a tunnel from the Divide for the MLA a fair bit north in two turns and could have our tunnel go from our Divide holdings and it's associated railway.
>>1933754No no, water diverting is fine, however I dont think you realize how big of a project building the Hoover Dam underground would be. If water is all you want then yes, the tunneler can get it in a few turns (though Id argue that with our new farms we dont really need any more water for a while) but if you are talking power generation then that is whack.
>>1933739>What? How? Do you want to dig hundreds of miles of tunnels?Didn't SPI just scout the entirety of the NCR using tunnelers filled with assaultrons? I am pretty confident Hover am is within range.
>>1933781Getting the power working is an issue though. We can reach the dam underground, but doing the reapairs wont be easy.
>>1933788>Getting the power working is an issue though. We can reach the dam underground, but doing the reapairs wont be easy.I agree with you there.
>>1933790>>1933788this is the hover damn right?
>>1933767I fail to see how it is based off my memory of the layout in game. Fact is that the generators are deep down in the dam in game and once the general shit (pipes un-blocked for example) is sorted and the chamber they are stored in is un-flooded / un-buried they should be easy to repair seeing as the generators weren't damaged during the battle, merely the overall structure, so we can examine them in detail and replicate their parts precisely.
>>1933781A few quick calculations with a 100m head, 13 foot diameter pipes and flowspeed of 5m/s gives us 19 MW. That is shit all. Admittedly, I didnt wanna calculate the flow speed (complex and im drunk) but even if you double that to 10 m/s it still gives us basically nothing. Especially if you take into account the engineering required for this. Better spent on fusion imo.
>>1933164>What does SPI know about Shi and Boomertown areas?Regarding the Shi"The Shi is a major area of industrial producer and consumer advanced computer parts. Given the number of encrypted communications, armored convoys carrying scientists and data, and the amount of resources and electricity being invested here. They have also buried the palace under a concrete bunker and layering of protection. I have reason to suspect this is the potential location of a ZAX or a high performance computer given the amount of data streaming in and out and the fact that I was not capable of adequately hacking into this data.Something is. . .strange. I have attempted several times to crack their data, and just when I get close I am shut off as the code encryption shifts. It would take a computer of extraordinary power to not only calculate research data and encrypt and decrypt it but also completely change to a new encryption pattern at the same time.I think we are not dealing with only one ZAX here or else this would be a cake walk. I think there may in fact be more than one ZAX in the NCR. Whatever the case this is likely the location of one, probably in the palace."
>>1933802Then you are talking about above ground building man. And then you have to deal with the legion, meaning a whole other mess. I am saying underground water is fine, underground hydropower is not.
>>1933805>A few quick calculations with a 100m head, 13 foot diameter pipes and flowspeed of 5m/s gives us 19 MW. That is shit all. Admittedly, I didnt wanna calculate the flow speed (complex and im drunk) but even if you double that to 10 m/s it still gives us basically nothing.QM said that Hover Dam produces TONS of power, i'm gonna believe his word over yours.
>>1933807Fuck me sideways.Main priority now, above any airfield or factory, is blowing those assholes straight up. All the NCR focus should go to dealing with the NCR ZAX issue as fast as possible. Whether that is taking over, allying or killing them. The NCR CAN NOT have those.How did it hack the signal? Wireless or found a cable? Can she not copy a file and decrypt at home, not in real time?
>>1933818Thats not Hoover, thats a 100 drop, ~4m tunnel of waterflow at 5-10 m/s. Basically around one turbine of the Hoover.This is to illustrate that underground hydro is a shit idea.
>>1933812No, we really don't have to deal with any sorts of "above ground building".
>>1933842The Dam is above ground. You want to build in the Dam. Ergo, you are building above ground.See where I am going with this? But ok, tell me your plan and how the Legion wont be a factor.
>>1933824Both. It attached to a single cable underground, and at the same time trying to decrypt its radio frequencies and attempted to decrypt them here at BigMT.The SPI did try to encrypt it here at BigMT, because the Subterrine does not have such equipment on it. "It's very good. I don't think I'll be able to crack this manually. Maybe if I were to somehow get my hands on the encryption programming directly from the machine itself." >>1933164>Boomertown"Boomertown was a construction project started by Yaunker before the fall of the Mojave, back when he was only the Secretary of War and approved by Kimball. It was originally slated to be a simple "observation and radio tower" on Mt. Lyell. I have reason to speculate Yaunker was secretly financing projects under both Kimball and Congress notice, long before Benny Shot you.Yaunker had installed a double railways system to Mt. Lyell, connected to the NCR Capital and then to Angels Boneyard. Sometime after the rescue of the Boomers, they sent an expedition to Anchorage Alaska where they salvaged several pairs of massive artillery pieces built before the war (as well as setting up an Alaskan Colony). They dismantled these guns, and repaired them, and transferred the pieces as well as the ammunition by ship and rail to the mountain and built them in.To keep the weapons supplied, much of the confiscated Gun Runner manufactories were transferred here and Boomers and several prominent weapons specialist groups were encouraged to live here. Boomertown is now a major city, producing and training artillery crews and artillery equipment for the NCR from here while also expanding the city.I don't know if there are any religious connotations, but there's some sort of cultural tradition here where its inhabitants worship and revere artillery, even their homes tend to have an artillery piece built into them and they train children to be familiar with artillery before they learn to write. At least, that's what I heard from peering into NCR soldiers from a convoy leaving the place making idle chat. The mountain rock prevented me from actually going near."
>>1933847>The Dam is above ground. You want to build in the Dam. Ergo, you are building above ground.If a house has a multi-levle basement and I want to fix a pipe in that basement, I ain't building above ground.The same applies here: we tunnel into the side of the dam (below the "surface" level) and into a corridor / chamber before clearing our way to the appropriate sections. Then once there we place a airlock in between these sections and the exits to the surface before re-seal anything that we think needs it, repair the generators and empty / fix the feed pipes. Then we just pump out the water (assuming it doesn't flow out the cleared pipes), restart the generators and connect it to whatever we want to power.Before you mention the Legion hearing any of this, water is excellent at blocking sound which is why we aren't attempting to empty the dam of it. Even ignoring that in-game you can't hear shit from the outside of the dam when it is on.Before you mention them, if they were to discover it, attacking or exploring, remember that the dam is a series of dark concrete corridors filled with water. No visibility unless you have night vision.>>1933878We really, really need to blow the ever loving shit out of that fucking artillery city.
>>1933878No that's a cultural tradition. Vault 34, the vault of many guns.
>>1933878Our ZAX cant decrypt segments at home? A saved code with no changing makeup? Ok..And Boomertown is basically an artillery platform with factories? Any talk about secure areas, ammo depos or the like? Basically vulnerable spots where a nuke in the right place could blow the mountain into another Big Empty?
>>1933883What about all the machine that are on the floor just under the surface? Cant get to those without draining things conpletly. And alot of the wiring and computer and stuff would be waterlogged and useless without beibg replaced. Its not all just located at the bottom of the dam.
>>1933883The actual turbines are above water on the sides of the outflow canal. This means that any action at those sections can be identified. You have a point in that it would be hard to get to but when they understand that water is flowing through the plant and the turbines are spinning (and not as silently as you are hoping) they will try to find out. If they learn it is us we lose. If they blow the place up trying to get to us we lose. I really see no way around this. If you want to use the dam you have to take the immediate area around it too which means Legion contact.
>>1933878Parts salvaged from anchorage.Fuck. We are running out of room to expand between the MLA, the NCR, and the Legion. We are trapped in a shrinking box. Portal tech makes that less of a problem, but still a problem.We need to subvert a faction entirely like convincing the BoS that we are messengers from MechaGod, or carve a huge chunk out of an existing faction. The MLA is likely to be hit hard by the retaliation, we might be able to snap something up then.The only other option is Sierra Madre or the north.
>>1933908>The only other option is Sierra Madre or the north.[spoilers] That was QMs plan all along. [/spoilers]
>>1933896>What about all the machine that are on the floor just under the surface?There are none based off of what I can see on the wiki and can remember. Even if there were, no reason we can't place them into rooms built off of the tunnel we used to get into the dam.>And a lot of the wiring and computer and stuff would be waterlogged and useless without being replaced. Its not all just located at the bottom of the dam.First off, wiring would be surrounded with a non-conductive material which, almost certainly, would still be there and even if it wasn't most wires are metallic so ignoring some minor surface rusting they'd still work.As to computers, like that'd be a problem. Seeing how much better our computers are than pre-war shit we could build a room off the side of the tunnel we used to get there to store the various things needed to run it.>>1933904>The actual turbines are above water on the sides of the outflow canal. This means that any action at those sections can be identified. Yeah no, I'm looking at IRL images as well as in-game and I don't see what you are on about unless you mean the actual "wall" of the dam. Which I'd point out we have no reason to believe is badly damaged given the Legion are using it as a bridge. So it's got to still be there for the most part.>You have a point in that it would be hard to get to but when they understand that water is flowing through the plant and the turbines are spinning (and not as silently as you are hoping) they will try to find out.They are silent in game and to understand that water is flowing through the plant would be an impressive feat by them given that they'd have no reason to suspect it and can't see the turbines spinnning.
>>1933164>What is the percentile power production capacity of every major power hub? Which is the most vulnerable? Same for factories."The most power appears to be coming from a mountainous fortress near the city known as the Frontier. Again the rock stopped the ship from venturing too much further, and actually we sustained damage. Our periscope attempted to poke up into the ground and was destroyed by laser fire. Before it was, I surveyed a significant amount of laser defenses around the mountain.The NCR's other largest power production stations, in order of sheer production output, are the Fortress near the Frontier, the Devil's Canyon nuclear power plant, the Moss Landing gas furnace, the Redding Dam, the Daytown dam, the Richland dam, the Shi palace reactor, the Gecko nuclear power plant, and the Barstow Solar Farms. These account for 60% of their power generating output, each heavily guarded. The other 40% come from small town gas burning power plants and small old world civilian style nuclear reactors scattered throughout various towns, as well as minor sources like geothermal and so on. Most of the NCR's small to medium sized towns are either low power consuming, power self sufficient, or produce in slight excess, with the large cities and the fortress projects consuming the most of the power."
>>1933908The probably only went to the well known military bases,so the inland stuff is likely free.However, youre right. Our best bet to take territory is getting out of our little bubble and fighting the legion. Theyre the only faction we have a chance against.Once we deal with the legion, we formalize relations with the BOS, take out the MLA and swoop in for a great big war withthe NCR.
>>1933146I just noticed, what are those Concentration camps and what do they do?
>>1933951Okay I think I see what you mean BUT, it's actually entirely so a non-issue because those sections aren't damaged structurally.It's the main span of the dam that was damaged and everything else is merely suffering from wear / tear + water damage. No need for external labour so long as we can replace or repair shit.
>>1933164>Where is High Command (the actual, not beurocrats)?"I have reason to believe that the High Command is located in the Fortress east of the Frontier, based on the amount of air traffic, encrypted data, and military convoys leaving to and fro the place.">Where does Yaunker live?"Yaunker has not actually visited his home in the NCR capital for many months. According to reports, this is not uncommon for him, as the man is reported to be absent from the capital for extended periods of time.Actual sightings of his locations are few and far between, only showing up on national holidays and celebrations but preferring to speak to his people by way of radio or television.I suspect he is a very mobile man and does not stick to one place for a length of time."
>>1933951As you can see from the images, the generators are located to the sides of the dam structure on the outflow end. Since the water is fed back into the river at or around the water level down at the outlet the turbines, and thus generators, are above the water level of the outflow side. Ergo, visible to the eye. Also, if you want to start funneling water through the turbines you induce flow through the outflow pipes, which is visible. Thus the Legion can see the water flowing as well as hear the turbines (Bethesda didnt make the area with an ambient sound? Shocker! It actually makes noise, try any generator ever.)
>>1933963Yes, bu unless the Legion repaired the Dam so it holds water at a high level again you are looking at reduced output (potentially far less). Also, if they see we are dicking around with it they may "agressively investigate" the ceiling and blow holes in the structure (worked well for them last time and all). Thus again we are face to face with the sportsgoods enthusiasts.
>>1933950"I was able to detect large convoys of prisoners being transferred to these locations, which are surrounded by energy fences, minefields, and barbed wire.Old Washington has only recently been pacified in the last few years, and there was a substantial tribal populace in the region. In addition, NCR reports indicate the Northern Legion has even more people than the South Legion. Large movements of prisoners are seen entering the camps, and not leaving. That is why I suspect they are concentration camps.I have a separate unconfirmed report about the North Legion as well."
>>1933983Alright then, anyone else have any questions or can we move on to the turn now?
>>1933963You say "water damage" as if it isnt one of the biggest problems faced in renovating anything ever. "Water damage often means tearing out everything and starting fresh.And it isnt like this is distilled water. We have to deal with silt and salt and algae getting into every nook and cranny of everything. Might have to remove all the logic controllers and sensors and guages and replace them, which gets hard to do under water.
>>1933972So all signs point to the frontier being the actual CIC? Well dicks. If we removed Shi lands from the equation, would the balance of power shift in any meaningful way in the south? This includes the ZAX(s).
>>1933164>Is Oddball in his casino?"His actual room in the Casino is a trap, in an effort to either incapacitate you or frame. Oddball actually travels a lot as well, though his movements are more traceable as he travels either by train or by armed convoy. He is currently the richest man in the NCR.---I have also located most of the people who fled to the NCR with him. They are working either as staff or living in luxury in Reno.">What is the most secret thing it learned? Any big project (ion thrusters, more ZAX)?I'm going to get to this once I get home again, need to brb.>Where is the ZAX?The most likely location for ZAX(s) are:-Shi-A fortress near Dayglow-A fortress near the Frontier-Vaulty City-A fortress south of ReddingI cannot confirm if all or only some of these locations have a ZAX.Not all of these ZAX's appear to be of the same caliber either. I believe the most powerful one to be near the Frontier, while the least powerful one is in Vault City and likely is responsible for a lot of civilian usage.
>>1933973>As you can see from the images, the generators are located to the sides of the dam structure on the outflow end. Since the water is fed back into the river at or around the water level down at the outlet the turbines, and thus generators, are above the water level of the outflow side. I can see that but if you go by the same documents you have provided there is nothing stopping us taking the water pipes and redirecting them down further until they are resting in the river.>Also, if you want to start funnelling water through the turbines you induce flow through the outflow pipes, which is visible. Thus the Legion can see the water flowing as well as hear the turbines Except those outflow pipes were covered by the water they release in FO 3 NV. So logic implies that for the dam, which they altered, to maintain any sorts of consistent water level and thus force, it must maintain the same flow.>(Bethesda didn't make the area with an ambient sound? Shocker! It actually makes noise, try any generator ever.)Yeah and they did a bunch of other things that don't work in real world physics. I'm willing to believe in magically near-silent generators (a fair distance away) if we are going to have shit like microwave cannons.>>1933979>Yes, bu unless the Legion repaired the Dam so it holds water at a high level again you are looking at reduced output (potentially far less).To be able to function as anything approaching a bridge they need it to be fairly level with both sides or else anyone crossing with cargo is dealing with an incline that makes it harder. This means that it must hold a similar level at both sides and thus it should be about the same height.>Also, if they see we are dicking around with it they may "agressively investigate" the ceiling and blow holes in the structure (worked well for them last time and all). Thus again we are face to face with the sportsgoods enthusiasts.Well then we'd best not get seen then.>>1933993Jesus christ do you lack all reading comprehension? As I explained in >>1933883 we wouldn't be doing it underwater.Algae, silt and salt aren't exactly problems either. We're talking a few years not a few decades here.
>>1934001>"His actual room in the Casino is a trap, in an effort to either incapacitate you or frame.Fucking knew it.
Gonna brb again. Post any additional questoins.
>>1933915What about the south? Mexico?
>>1934003So you want to take years doing things all sneaky breaky like, rather than taking control of the area and solving the issue in 1?
>>1934064So the hell is your plan then for dealing with the vast army of the Legion? Also, I have no idea where in the hell you are pulling that statistic of years from. Probably out of your ass from right next to your head.Fuck it, I'm going to sleep.
>>1934070If we take the Mojave, the only real ways for significant legion to get to us is coming up from the 93 or down along the 15. Both of which are desert marches, and the 15 is a very roundabout way of attacking, so most likely they come from the 93, from the south. We can occupy and reinforce The Fort if we need to, or we can set up a for some ways down the highway. We meet them in the middle of the desert, where they are tired and thirsty form marching from Phoenix, and we would have a significant advantage.You said years.>We're talking a few years not a few decades here.
>SomewhereThe sun beat down on the earth, the air roiling with heat.Boots marched. Armor clattered. Banners fluttered. Crimson cloth floated in the breeze, as the cohort marched forward. Drums beat, feet stomped. And yet not a single man spoke, even as up ahead the wall of barbed wire could be seen.Grim somber faces on them all. Many of them tribals who but weeks ago had been pressed into service by Caesar, mere recruits. But not a shred of fear or an ounce of talk. They marched with purpose, and fervor.Then, men at the front fell as the crack and whiz of bullets landed all around them, the ground bursting with clouds of dust. Even as at the Decanus raised the horn to his face and sounded the charge, in an instant he and the men around him were engulfed in an explosive blast and were no more. Shells from guns and rockets fired from behind ridges and hills landed around them.Under this withering bombardment, a single unified cry rang out "CHARGE". Into the hailstorm of bullets, into the clouds of exploding death, the legion men shouted at the top of their lungs ready to enter the gates of hell itself. Most of them would.---"Contact! Front!""Machine Guns, adjust fire for 300 years. Drop the beaten zone on em!""That's it, keep pouring it on em!""Hold the line!""Where's that ammunition?""Reloading!"All across the line, NCR troopers open fired. Every man straddling a trench wall of barbed wire and sandbags. Most carried the new Belt Fed Assault rifles, longer to reload but able to unleash a hailstorm, others fired with the powerful .50 rounds, the recoil from the guns absorbed by mass produced advanced shoulder recoil dampeners. They fired directly to their front as the Legion closed in. The smoke and dust so thick they couldn't see the enemy, but suppressed them all the same.They knew the legion could never actually be suppressed, only that if they threw enough at them, thinned their ranks, they could hold when they actually arrived.---"Brave men one and all. May their names ring in Elysium""The bear takes the bait. Now we pounce."From behind a hill, a stillness was broken as out from the sand poured forth a host thrice as large as the one now being massacred. All of them wearing cloaks covered in sand, desert foliage, hidden in plain sight. Beneath these veneers were armor, powerful rifles, power blades, fists, and hammers. These were the veterans, lead by Centurions. The true horde finished from thin air, appearing up from their hidden positions in the dust and rocks, and silently rushed forward charging over the hill and onto the flanks of the NCR. Like a swarm of locusts, they descended on the NCR's positions.>con't
>>1934649The NCR fled, running, retreating. The battered legion cohort and their reinforcements cheered, firing at the fleeing cowards. In other days, they would prepare to take spoils. Now they scrambled to take whatever slaves, prisoners or any valuable intel they could.The bear was growling. The wind carried the sound of angry roaring engines and treads, and soon it would bear other sounds from the sky.---Men loaded up into metal. Treads and rubber gripped the sand. They weren't the Brotherhood of Steel, but they fostered in themselves a pride in being armored knights of California. A tanker. The weapon that had turned the tide of war against the numbers Legion and the tides of mutants."The forward brigades have broken. Attack at Vector Charlie Six. Expect infantry presence supported by anti tank weapons""Copy command. Drivers, into formation."Tanks, the ancient old world weapon now brought to life, war machines of metal beneath the feet of the crew inside or carrying stormtroopers in their hull. An armored spear head was pressing forward to crush the Legion.NCR infantry streamed past them, parting like water to let the tanks through, cheering them along or catching their breath.They would smash the legions infantry like they had done a hundred times before.>con't
>>1934003>I can see that but if you go by the same documents you have provided there is nothing stopping us taking the water pipes and redirecting them down further until they are resting in the river.That would mean renovating a substantial part of the facility. While doable I dont see us getting away with it unnoticed.>>1934003>Except those outflow pipes were covered by the water they release in FO 3 NV. So logic implies that for the dam, which they altered, to maintain any sorts of consistent water level and thus force, it must maintain the same flow.If the reservoir was blown up and the water level on the outlet side is higher (compared to "normal") as a result of the water flowing freely we dont have a head and thus no way to generate power.>>1934003>Yeah and they did a bunch of other things that don't work in real world physics. I'm willing to believe in magically near-silent generatorsThe thing is that these are not a priority thing to invent. Much less waste resources on. It may be so but I wouldnt hold my breath.>>1934003>To be able to function as anything approaching a bridge they need it to be fairly level with both sides or else anyone crossing with cargo is dealing with an incline that makes it harder. This means that it must hold a similar level at both sides and thus it should be about the same height.You are correct, however I remind you that instead of making a mammoth project to repair the dam they can just build a bridge. This means no reservoir (more water for farms downstream), good troop movements and a small(er) build project done in less time.>>1934003>Well then we'd best not get seen then.Altered water flow, alterations to the building and spinning generators kind of tips them off. That is before patrols, which they most likely have, seeing as this is a major roadway for them.
I apologize for the slowness. I'm attempting to accurately capture the battle I see in my head and put it into words as well as provide meaningful insight into the combat capabilities of the forces deployed here. I'm trying to find my own writing muse tooThe scene played out on different corners of the front, as NCR's front lines were pushed back by a simultaneous assault from multiple points. NCR's Army Group Center was hit square on the nose by the Legion push.As planned. They had fought the Legion for a decade now, and they knew their enemy.Fighter pilots miles behind back in California scrambled to their birds, alarms rang out as men woke up from their bunks and loaded up.Already Tank Division 12 was spearheading the counter attack, charging forward. 250 tanks massed in 4 battalions rushed to outflank, surround and encircle the Legion as they had done before. Cut up their numbers, divide and conquer.Even as they prepared to encircle the anticipated legion positions, a furious bombardment opened up on them. Artillery salvo's blasted the abandoned positions, "Screaming Katy's" launched their incendiary rockets, lighting the area ablaze with flame. Their rockets exploding and the shards burning so hot they ignited anything flammable they touched. The tanks rolled into position, and moved forward looking for enemy contact. . .and finding none.A tank commander got out and surveyed with his binoculars scratched his head."Where the hell are they. These were our former positions.""Maybe. . .maybe the arty killed em all?""Or they finally learned how to retreat""Quiet! Both of you. They must have dug in somewhere or moved on. We need to move out and-."The commander was interrupted by an explosion coming in far from behind, and he turned around to see that the rear eschelon was bursting with smoke and fire. He put down his binoculars, he didn't need them to see what was going on. They had been outflanked, not by the legion. The MLA was attacking from the north, slamming into their flank with their own vehicle divisions. Scrap and jury rigged vehicles, or some littte more than salvaged NCR vehicle designs themselves.Even as they turned about to respond to this threat, around them they all heard a familiar roar, and saw that the desert had turned into a field of camoflagued legionaires. Scattered about the sands in their covering. They attacked from multiple angles, some launching rockets, firing AM rifles, and lobbing grenades at the division and many more heated up thermic lances and simple power sledges. For the first time in many years, the unthinkable was occuring: the MLA and the Legion were attacking. Not separately as before, one after the other, but at the same time.The tank division was only barely able to break off, and retreat. Without the infantry to support them they were too exposed and almost engulfed themselves. >con't
>>1935761Shit the tanks got out.
>>1934090That is lovely but you have yet to explain how we are going to deal with their army, not where. They can manage to actually put up some level of a fight against the NCR's WW 2 level army but with kinda wolfenstein tech who have near equal numbers to them yet you expect us, who have so few troops that we couldn't have a single squad for every thousand legion soldiers, to hold the line? Insane.>We're talking a few years not a few decades here.Aye and I was talking about the build up of salt, silt and algae. Again, your reading comprehension is shit.>>1934649Hell look it this, you think we can fight against this? That we can hold the line against this?>>1935378That would mean renovating a substantial part of the facility. While doable I dont see us getting away with it unnoticed.I feel that we could, given the tunneller and our robots. Anyhow, we would just take the existing tunnels and have them empty further downstream or in such a way as to be unnoticeable like encouraging the growth of plant life near them.>If the reservoir was blown up and the water level on the outlet side is higher (compared to "normal") as a result of the water flowing freely we dont have a head and thus no way to generate power.They crossed the dam moments after blowing it. The dam wasn't as badly damaged as you seemingly think. Nowhere near it in fact.>The thing is that these are not a priority thing to invent. Much less waste resources on. It may be so but I wouldnt hold my breath.Nor are many of the inventions in fallout like robot dogs or soft drinks that can be used as explosives.>You are correct, however I remind you that instead of making a mammoth project to repair the dam they can just build a bridge. This means no reservoir (more water for farms downstream), good troop movements and a small(er) build project done in less time.Ah yes, a bridge across the giant canyon on one side or across the giant lake on the other. Unless you mean they'd build a bridge across the dam itself in which case, please refer to two points up, where I explain the state of the dam in terms of damage.>Altered water flow, alterations to the building and spinning generators kind of tips them off. True. It occurs to me that the water, if they restored the dam or at least stopped the flow, would travel down the spillways which feed into concealed / covered tunnels next to the turbines houses. So we could easily make use of the generators by redirecting the flow, installing them into these tunnels or some combination there of.>>1935761Now, let us morn these brave souls who fought so bravely to defend their homes. A moment of silence in their name.Now that that has passed, fuck yes. Take that you fucking NCR nazi cunts. Now you are on the back foot again and we can relax about your military pushes and shit.
>>1935811>thinking we can relax because the NCR throwaway forces got BTFO.I am guaranteeing you they have power armor infantry armed with energy weapons in their reserves. they probably also have verti birds.we already know they have lasers.it is naive as hell to imagine they are stuck in a WW2 mentality, that's just the cheapest means of dealing with the legion.
>>1935880And tgus, all their infrastructure is dedicated to cheap ww2 tanks. Iy would take a while to reyool everything for power armour and such, which gives us time to do our things..
>>1935893you do realize that everything we have seen is likely only approx 3/4 of their production capacity?they clearly tapped their best workers and brightest engineers to assist the Shi and Maxon states.ffs man they have original Brotherhood as a state. Combined with Shi production. they of a certainty have an army waiting in the wings. it is equally certain that they have access to lasers, plasma, power armor and the like. The NCR is aiming to conquer the entire continent. so what can we do about it?1) we need Sierra Madre. The Cloud combined with holograms and weather control could grind the NCR advance to a halt. Is it a gigantic problem? yes. Does it carry genuine risk of death? yes. but the rewards would be profound. moreso if we can capture Elijah instead of killing him.2) Take the Northern Baronies. self explanatory.3) find allies. real ones. The east coast offers a few options. Especially if we can subvert the BoS worship of Tech into a desire to join us in order to experience Godhead.4)integrate the chinese. the division between communism and capitalism is a scarcity issue soon to be rendered moot. plus mothership
>>1935952To attack the madre we need a land route, which is vegas and the mojave. Or we risk having legion harassing our forces as they move.Agree on the baronies East coast is an unkown right niw, and likely not in a position to be lending too much aid. Could probably get to the midwest through the reavers.
>>1935880Like hell they do and even if they did, we've bought at least a few turns worth of time before they regain their ground.>>1935952>you do realize that everything we have seen is likely only approx 3/4 of their production capacity?Now that I really doubt.>they clearly tapped their best workers and brightest engineers to assist the Shi and Maxon states.Probably but seeing as until recently most of the NCR had next to no technical skills that ain't much. A fairly large amount thanks to their scale but given time we can beat them.>ffs man they have original Brotherhood as a state. Combined with Shi production. The BOS who had went entirely into hiding or been killed and lacked any ability to make PA or anything else on that level?As to the Shi, there you have a point but we lack too much to say anything about them.>they of a certainty have an army waiting in the wings. it is equally certain that they have access to lasers, plasma, power armor and the like. They have access to those things yeah but not enough to equip an entire army on the scale of the one they have with WW 2 stuff.>1) we need Sierra Madre. The Cloud combined with holograms and weather control could grind the NCR advance to a halt. Is it a gigantic problem? yes. Does it carry genuine risk of death? yes. but the rewards would be profound. moreso if we can capture Elijah instead of killing him.The Sierra madre is a mad man's dream. Our end game certainly but not an objective short term.>2) Take the Northern Baronies. self explanatory.Duh.>3) find allies. real ones. The east coast offers a few options. Especially if we can subvert the BoS worship of Tech into a desire to join us in order to experience Godhead.Yeah, not possible realistically speaking. We might be able to pull a few groups like the Minute men, Institute and Children of atom to our side but not the BOS.>4)integrate the chinese. the division between communism and capitalism is a scarcity issue soon to be rendered moot. plus mothershipI've been saying that for months now and to be frank the benefits of fusion can't be understated given what we understand of the Chinese potentially being technically superior but technological less advanced. Meaning that they could greatly refine our present advances.Not to mention the sheer number of people they'd most likely bring or the organisations and such we would be able to appropriate from them rather than having to establish them ourselves.
>>1936017If your talking about our chinese, i really doubt they are holding out on us in any significant way. Talking with them wont get us anything special.
>>1936030It's not a matter of them holding out anything on us but rather them acting as a separate entity under us.Fact is when we develop new weapons and vehicles, the Chinese aren't involved and thus we don't get their view. Fact is that their government is still itself but under us and thus their police, their medical services, their education system and everything else is still separate and thus we don't get any of their improvements yet because we've never even inquired about them.
>>1936040In that case it would be best to integrate. Problem is where to put them.
>>1936051Well they can maintain the current arrangement for now.Once we've started securing things in Montana, we can probably send them there.
>>1936012we have subterines we dont need a land route.>>1936017we cant subvert the BoS entirely, but a schism would be more than enough. the sierra is a necessity. every turn we let it lie is a turn elijah spends trying to fuck everyone. even aside from the superweapons, the knowledge of ARCHIMEDES, the holograms, theres a lot to gain. we can tunnel to avoid the cloud, and the Legion. so while the MLA and Legion fight the NCR we can take the Madre and its secrets.hell we might be able to spend a boon to take his defenses offline or subvert them.
>>1936082All of what you say is possibly true but I feel I must remind you that boons aren't insta-wins. Merely they bend results to our favour.Also, regarding the holograms, I feel that getting the NCR hardlight holo-doctor projectors would be more useful. Seeing as it is literally hardlight and shit.
>>1936110whynotboth?one is invulnerable to conventional weapons, the other can punch people. slap both kinds in a drone and you have a ghost of sorts.
>>1936124Just a note, but we have samples of ELijah's hologram tech in the mountain. One of the labs has a prototype hologram just walking around.
>>1936130i had not remembered.combine that with VR interface tech, drones, and a stealth boy and we could project invulnerable soldiers from the safety of a vr simulation via a stealth fielded holo projection drone.
>>1936178Well we would need mobile projectors like Elijah has, but they would be more easily to armour. than robot soldiers. Less moving parts.
>>1936194Actually, we should use the hologram we have to develop something that shorts out projectors. Like the sonic gun does to shields. If we had a weapon that could "kill" holograms, one of elijah's main advantages is gone
Which reminds me, in regards to shields, the hardlight would work as a shield against most if not all forms of "conventional" weapons: bullets, swords, flame and so on. Only things like lasers and such might prove effective but studying the NCR projectors is the only way to find out.
>>1935761The vehicles rode the infantry down, even as they ran towards the NCR's second lines. As the NCR turned tail and fled, they were pursued by the speed of MLA vehicles. By now, all pretense of alienation between the Legion and the MLA had dropped as an armada of spiked and weapon tipped buses, cars, and other assembled craft began picking up legion warriors by the droves and chasing the NCR, driving wildly to avoid the counter fire. When the NCR's air power arrived, they drove up as close to the Tanks at near point blank, preventing the level bombers and dive bombers from hitting them without also risking hitting their own craft. This also helped shield them from being impaled on the NCR's 88mm artillery.Legion and Raiders alike leapt form the top of their vehicles and onto the NCR tanks and halftracks, trying to pry open hatches with thermic lances and welding tools. Or throwing burning molotovs or satchel charges on them.There were grievous casualties on both sides, as the NCR tanks still fired, unleashing bullets and shells onto the MLA vehicles, who outnumbered them but were far less armored. Wherever they could the MLA sought to disable a tank by smashing its treads or immobilizing it, leaving it doomed to be swarmed later, forcing the crew to abandon it or make it their grave, while the MLA drove on and continued to pursue.With the MLA providing transport for the Legion hordes, even if it couldn't carry all of them, they also brought the weight of their infantry numbers to the front. And as they rode they pulled out skinsacks filled with red blood and drank it until their chins were stained, pouring them into the mouths of the wounded, into the open bleeding wounds or injecting them with crude needles. The Legion felt their hearts pound, their wounds slowly close and clot, energy filled their bodies and rage to keep fighting. Those who couldn't get onto a vehicle ran, even in armor and in the hot sun, attacking anything the vehicles themselves left behind.>con't
>>1936402Well I think the war has stabalised for now. No need to worry about either side making much more ground after this push. The NCR has their massive defences and tech. Whereas the MLA-Legion union has their numbers and dark magic.So I think that we should take this time to just get stronger by focusing on expansion into Montana and other shit north followed most likely by wherever else we can like Mexico, Texas, Florida and other such places along with off of the continental US.
>>1936504I agree that things have stabilized, but right now, we don't have much breathing room around Our capital. I still maintain we need to take Vegas and the Dam at least for our current region, which also puts us in a position to better fight Elijah when the time comes.
>>1936504It's not magic. They incorporated The Family a group of cannibals turned vampire. They can drink blood and heal like it was stimpaks.
>>1936530Thing is we've never really needed room. Just time.With these few extra turns we've bought we can get the non-fissile replication disintegration chamber finished along with a few industrial scale replication chambers plus enough solar arrays to power them as they constantly churn out more robots to farm, build, defend and work for us.Time is our limitation because we have the resources and the ability and arguably even the labour, just never enough time.>>1936531True. Very true. But I doubt that that'd grant them this level of regeneration. Still, just another thing to learn.
>>1936556Yeah, we can definitely focus on getting the cold fusion power, the brain vault and the universal replicators online now.But in the long run...
>>1936582In the long run nothing. Soon we will have Montana and elsewhere. Fact is that the MLA have no reason to object to selling us land and shit so we can do some Louisiana purchase shit if it comes down to us needing more land.However by the time that space is a problem, I'd expect us to have gotten a portal deep underwater off the coast, meaning we can expand to the underwater volcanoes and generate geothermal power there (something we can do elsewhere as well if we really need to) as well as getting closer to Hawaii.
>>1936623MLA won't sell us occupied land like that. Most of the land they actuually use. or is not claimed.THe Mojave is the closest source of good shit for us, and if we want it, we have to take it.
>>1936637>MLA won't sell us occupied land like that. I see no reason why they wouldn't. At the very least I imagine they'd let us send out people through their lands which means we can expand beyond their borders and such.>Most of the land they actually use. or is not claimed.There are vast areas of desert which they can't use that we can. Even if all we do is sell them some electricity we produce from the region they benefit.>THe Mojave is the closest source of good shit for us, and if we want it, we have to take it.Sorry so your solution is to attack the now combined MLA-Legion force?
>>1936658What the fuck are we going to buy land with?Do you not understand that the NCR. MLA, AND legion are all in a giant land grab race to secure population and resources?More so because every square mile could hold valuable prewar resources like a vault.On a side not we need to restore the GECK factory
>>1936680No point without the beryllium
>>1936680>What the fuck are we going to buy land with?Guns, fuel, ammo, food, power, medical stuff and such.I mean we've got no reason to not ask them about it.>Do you not understand that the NCR. MLA, AND legion are all in a giant land grab race to secure population and resources?To be frank the MLA aren't. They are in it for money, slaves and fun along with getting the shit they need to beat the BOS / NCR.>More so because every square mile could hold valuable prewar resources like a vault.Yeah but such things are generally shit that has a recognisable entrance and I'd point out that logic is rather flawed. Given that the MLA should know just how rare they are given they've got at least a few under their control.>On a side not we need to restore the GECK factoryUseless without a supply of beryllium.
As the NCR fled and the MLA and Legion were hot on their tails, a new sight rallied the NCR forces to stand and fight.The sound of a fleet of vertibirds in the sky, black dots approaching, landing from a distance and deploying their load.A sound unlike either the NCR tanks of the field or the raucous revelry of the MLA's craft was heard. No sound at all. These vehicles were not powered by diesel or fuel.The NCR moved now with a purpose. Not only to run from the threat to their rear, but to rally to the support they knew was coming. That always came in their hour of need, that always turned the tide. And both Legion and Raider alike had a sinking feeling in their stomach.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8Fw54YBFakThe great armored truck at the head of the MLA attack column was the first casualty. A mighty spear of blue light appearing in thin air, a tremendous noise from it cracking and burning the atmosphere itself, the truck crumpled and turned red, then orange, then a white hot metal bright as magnesium, the occupants inside long dead as the gas tank within exploded into shrapnel.Lasers fired so accurately, the shots were falling in between NCR tanks. In some cases, in between fleeing NCR soldiers, the beams falling mere feet beside them but not harming them even as scores of men behind them were turned to ash or lit aflame. The tanks shone and glimmered in the sun and their own beams. White, silvery metal shiny and polished like chrome, unlike the cast steel of the industrially produced tanks. They fired not shots, but a continuously delivered beam of concentrated laser fire a thousand times stronger than any laser rifle. Men, trees, and bushes did not have time to burn: they were there one moment, then only the trace of ashes the next. Their beams poked through metal like a hot poker through plastic.The Ghost Division had arrived.
>>1936811It takes a shit ton of small atms to buy land. And it isnt like any land is particullarly useless. Look at the map and tell me what land the MLA might want to sell for cheap. The legion won't. They hate us and enjoy having vast tracts of land as a matter of principle.The louisiana purchase happened because France was done with North america, and wanted to offload a bunch of economically draining territory. You want to buy shit that is in their main borders.
>>1936859>The Ghost Division had arrived.Make or break moment lads, will the MLA-Legion advance pierce the NCR's greatest bulwark? Will they shatter against this last measure or will they power through?My money is on the MLA-Legion.
>>1936859I hope Niner lets us buy one of these bad boys.
>>1936863>It takes a shit ton of small atms to buy land. True, good thing I listed a bunch of other options.>And it isn't like any land is particularly useless. Look at the map and tell me what land the MLA might want to sell for cheap. Dunno, let's ask them rather than hearing your opinion about what a bunch of fictional people would be willing to sell.>The legion won't. They hate us and enjoy having vast tracts of land as a matter of principle.The Legion are willingly siding with the MLA. They aren't the legion as we know it anymore. However you do have a point regarding their use of land and shit.In that regard however I'd point out to you that the Legion can't make use of certain regions that are unusable with their simple technology and that they>The louisiana purchase happened because France was done with North america, and wanted to offload a bunch of economically draining territory. I was giving a historical example of a major exchange of land between two nations. That was just the first one that came to mind.>You want to buy shit that is in their main borders.Well part of me did consider saying that we should "pre-purchase" the region to our south in return for letting the MLA attack from the Divide directly and shit. So we'd be securing more land on our main borders.
>>1936890>>1936877It makes me want to ruin the nice things the NCR has.Who's down for buying one of these and reproducing a combat squadron of them for the MLA on the condition that they're only crewed by MLA soldiers who've undergone special surgery (see: loyalty augmentation and debrainification). Just to spit on the NCR's dream.
>>1936980I dont see that plan ever working for a number of reasons.plus we should really cut back on the amount of rape we perpetrate on peoples basic rights to self determination. just, yknow, sayin.
>>1936980Nah.Better plan is to, now that the NCR is going to be staying on the backfoot, begin supplying squads of artillery / AA robots and shit. Rear line fighters that have low death rates but would be harder for the MLA to produce. That way we don't risk our investment or involvement being destroyed or discovered until we are ready while making sure the NCR remains on the back foot.However I certainly want one of these just to study the technology.
>>1937014>>1937009Aah oh well then. I guess we'll just have to sabotage their factories and steal what they have that's of worth instead.
>>1937050Hey we got a behemoth off the MLA, we can get one of these too. Or at least the scraps of one.
>>1937014If the NCR is on their back foot, no reason to help the MLA anymore. We don't want to destroy the NCR entierly after all.>>1936980Spite doesn't win wars. No reason to do anything like that.
>>1937165Nah, we want to help keep the NCR on the backfoot. Still I suppose you have a point.
>>1937165>All this evidence that's been presented lately about how powerful the NCR is and how easily they've been kicking the Legion's face in and how far they've come so quickly>People still don't think we should devote our efforts to destroying the NCR, despite the fact that the MLA and Legion will inevitably infight afterwards making it much easier for us to secure power.
>>1937165>>1937178>>1937194The NCR can afford way more space and losses than the others can, we should at least make sure their Ghost Division isn't going to be a problem.
>>1937194And now they are not. THings are going as we want them to, and more interference is not necessary, unless we start taking New Vegas. If we did that, we could probably pay off the MLA with guns to let us take the dam and surrounding territory.
>>1937208One defeat in one battle doesn't change the tide of war. This was a surprise attack that happened to catch the NCR off guard, and even still they're exacting a bloody price. Next time the element of surprise won't even be there.The MLA and Legion clearly need assistance to make headway, and that aside they're preferable enemies to the NCR, and THAT aside we can make profit off of supplying the MLA. Why wouldn't we?
>>1937194Yeah I mean, this is very true. Even considering the massive losses they are experiencing here, they've still got all their massive forts, their massive population and factories. Not to mention their airforce.>>1937201Oh aye that much is certain. These things'd be a horrifying threat to even us. However I feel we must not forget what this event represents primarily: we've bought ourselves a few months at least to focus on expansion in the north and building up more generally.After this, depending on how things are with the MLA, NCR and Legion we can decide our next course of action but I feel that finishing all the shit we need like the Brain vault, non-fissile stuff and the fusion reactor is essential. However I would like to request that after that, we dedicate an automated ZAX / construction action to just constructing solar arrays in our lands and in the unclaimed region to our east followed by expanding the non-fissile stuff until we've maximised our energy intake and can focus our energy / replication abilities on producing machines of war. With which we can then push south and west into the NCR or anywhere else for that matter.
Unstoppable. Would that there were any survivors of an assault by the most advanced laser weapons designed by the most brilliant minds and the greatest funding the old world had to bear.These were to be to the tank what Power Armor is to combat armor, the ultimate vehicular answer to the Chinese own superiority in numbers and build up of anti armor weapons.The MLA and Legion fired their rockets. Not only from their shoulders, but from rocket buggies and vehicle mounts. These waves of flying projectiles were intercepted, and destroyed midair by a flurry of point defense lasers. Not just from the Tanks, but from special jeeps that rode by them, designated prime targets to fire with a very special digitally encoded laser that the smart computers aboard could understand as different from the myraid of laser bursts. The tanks charged directly into the MLA and Legion forces itself, where they unleashed another nasty shock. Those point defense lasers didn't just render their missiles and bombs worthless, they could target men just as easily. Anyone who stuck so much as a head or a leg out needed to be hit but once or twice, and he became a writhing mass of flame.And all their numbers and infantry did them naught. Even those that survived to get close enough to try and pry the treads and weak spots with their thermic lances and and weapons found another nasty shock. Glowing brighter than any of them all, a microwave tank radiated the air all around them, making it shimmer like the inside of an oven. Now even those who had leapt into trenches or hid beneath the wrecks of vehicles felt their body burn, incapacitated by the heat that they prayed to their gods would end. For those who could not escape this invisible inferno, it did.Energized death itself walked through the combined mutant liberators and legionaire host, a scientific scythe of technological death, slicing through raider and legionaire alike as easily as it did the chinese militia and their PLA infantry. And there was sinister threat that loomed overhead as well: drones. Flying drones by the dozens, launched from the tanks themselves, acting as the infantry support that they lacked. Bearing laser weapons far more powerful than the eyebots, acting as both point defense against missiles and infantry too, well armored and fast flying and in such numbers to overwhelm those who would dare shoot back. Not one rocket so much as touched the hull of the division, as it moved leaving a trail of death and destruction in its wake. Behind them, the NCR forces watched in awe and regrouped. >con't
>>1936781Didn't we obtain one from a 100 result a few threads back?
>>1937331used it in the fancy tunneler as part of the 100.
>>1937317Huh, seeing how successful these tanks are makes me wanna research those prototype tanks in the Divide.
>>1937339Darn.Well, the Legion/MLA are getting their asses handed to them.We need to provide them with better anti-vehicle weaponry. Probably something plasma or laser based, as to avoid the ADS countermeasures on the tanks. I'd have to be infantry-portable too.To be fair...the new hover attack craft we designed for the MLA haven't made an appearance yet. Maybe they can turn the tide, alongside some dark magic craziness.
>>1937365>Well, the Legion/MLA are getting their asses handed to them.Isn't this part of their plan though? Bait the Ghost division then use the tunnel to surround and overwhelm them.
>>1937348Yeah we really should get round to that sometime soon...>>1937365Railguns would be another good AT measure. Armour piercing and immune to laser counter fire.Also, just a general note, for the Microwave tank to eliminate the infantry wouldn't it also have to hit the tanks and thus their crews killing them?>>1937369Yeah but I think they've underestimated the threat they are facing.
>>1937383I doubt it. Niner seemed pretty aware of what they were facing. I think everything is going to plan.
>>1937383>Microwave tankThe other vehicles probably have shielding.You'll notice that the Ghost Division have no dedicated infantry support - which is odd for any mechanised force.Railguns sound good though. We should research them as a priority next turn.
>>1937400DOES SOMEONE REQUIRE A LASER RESISTANT POWER ARMOR ARMED WITH POWERFUL RAILGUN WEAPONRY?THE CHROMIUM GUARDSMAN STANDS READY TO DEFEND AGAINST ALL FOES!
>>1937383>Yeah we really should get round to that sometime soon...How bout Next turn we use our hero action to explore the Base more thoroughly and the ZAX action to research all the tank types?>Yeah but I think they've underestimated the threat they are facing.I am pretty sure Niner mentioned this attack was made entirely to deal with them.
>>1937426Next stage of PA right here boys.
Also, and I know this ain't exactly a damming point, I'm looking at the description of these laser tanks assuming they are the "laser crusader" tanks from Command and Conquer. Their combat drone variants lacks any sort of energy weapon instead using a machine gun or a rocket and the wiki describes the tanks themselves as being inaccurate against infantry. Also, ignoring the presence of the supporting Avengers, the wiki says that the tanks can't intercept missiles with their lasers.So either the NCR has REALLY been teching up this tiny portion of their army (incredibly, incredibly, incredibly, incredibly hard to believe) or they are very different from what the wiki describes.>>1937400>The other vehicles probably have shielding.Potentially but OP has previously stated that microwaves aren't reflected by metal and thus they can't shield the vehicles realistically speaking.>You'll notice that the Ghost Division have no dedicated infantry support - which is odd for any mechanised force.They have drones. Faster, more expendable and so on.>Railguns sound good though. We should research them as a priority next turn.Especially given we could build some artillery pieces in the Divide and enhance them with rail-guns to allow us to hit NCR positions without risking anything.>>1937434>How bout Next turn we use our hero action to explore the Base more thoroughly and the ZAX action to research all the tank types?Yeah that'd work but I kinda wanted to use the Hero action up north getting shit done.>I am pretty sure Niner mentioned this attack was made entirely to deal with them.Yeah and the Italians invaded Ethiopia with the sole goal of dealing with them. They almost lost there and I worry the MLA might lose here.
so i had an idea for a super weapon, but im afraid elijah might beat us to it.use weather control to create a massive storm cell full of web lightning, then fire the ARCHIMEDES through it to create the planet's biggest LAER.
>>1937460Why would he? He doesn't have weather tech, or archimedes.
>>1937467Do we have a solid grasp on how far into the Mojave the Cloud has reached? If it's engulfed Helios One he might.
>>1937483http:thumbs/1507216832204.jpgThe purple around the sierra madre is the cloud.
We need to reverse engineer the EMP bombs from the military base from the divide to be able to counter the ghost division
>>1937486Oh, I don't know how I didn't notice. He's grown in the last few years. I wonder if he's grown complacent or extended too far to have the stealth countermeasures he did when we first tried to kill him.
>>1937499Wouldn't work they'd counter their missile nature. Our best hope is to either out laser them, use HEAP shells, plasma or something similar.That or we could deploy, say, a series of or even a single large nuclear explosive to somewhere we've lured them to fuck them up
>>1937507Nah, Elijah is paranoid as shit and he'd have no reason to get rid of those counter-measures.
>>1937514Or a Subterranean ambush, that's an option too.
>>1937531Which is happening right now anyways, so lets just see the end result before planning what we need to do.
>>1937531True but given how long they'd take to surface and shit it would be a far harder thing and would require we got them in a far more precise region.Also an additional idea to help the MLA / Legion. If we continue to expand through the Divide to the north we will approach the front-lines of both sides currently or wherever they end up resting. We could construct some large rail-guns (to prevent the NCR figuring out where they are by the distant noise) to launch artillery shells into the NCR's lines and eliminate some of their advantage.
>>1937555>True but given how long they'd take to surface and shit it would be a far harder thing and would require we got them in a far more precise region.Does it really take long to surface? I thought we could have the vehicles hide just a little beneath the surface then they jump out into the fight at our signal.
>>1937555They could probably figure out the direction they are coming from through, and if it's through our territory, they would get suspicious. and they are watching us, especially any artillery batteries we build.
>>1937574Eh, if we had Major's subterra robot-warriors maybe.Fact is the subterrines don't exactly surface all that quickly as far as I am aware.>>1937576>They could probably figure out the direction they are coming from through, and if it's through our territory, they would get suspicious.True but they'd struggle to follow into the Divide and more importantly, how would they figure out where the shells are coming from? They fly onto their targets silently and wouldn't exactly be too easy to track when the MLA-Legion forces start pushing as well and our artillery holes mix with theirs.>and they are watching us, especially any artillery batteries we build.Which is lovely but the Divide is covered in constant dust storms which even we struggled to operate in and only succeeded thanks to how close our command systems were and the fact we were under the dust-cloud cover.
>>1937624>Eh, if we had Major's subterra robot-warriors maybe.Well i am planning on making this think in the future.http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Scorpion_tank_(Tiberian_Twilight)Would it work?
>>1937634Potentially but we've got more important things to deal with right now.Like expanding as much as possible and maximising our energy income / surplus.
>>1937624I mean it's artillery. It follows a set path. DIrection of the shots wouldn't be that hard to ascertain. It would be a matter of time before they deduce it would be our artillery battery >>1937644Which is why we need the Dam up and running. It would give us plenty of power to play around with.
>>1937688>I mean it's artillery. It follows a set path. DIrection of the shots wouldn't be that hard to ascertain. It would be a matter of time before they deduce it would be our artillery battery Again, I disagree that they could by any realistic means.>Which is why we need the Dam up and running. It would give us plenty of power to play around with.True but it requires betraying the MLA-Legion which basically kills us.
Ah, there is one thing that could be useful when dealing with the Ghost division, or any faction in general.The BigMT teleporter, the one in-game that uses a lightning effect,i recall we researched how to replicate it long ago and that it can fit in a Vehicle.
>>1937701Its an arc with a fixed -9.8m/s downward acceleration. Crater analysis and detecting the shell with radar can end up with a general firing location- enough to know it was us.We don't know about MLA-Legion- Act quickly enough, we tell the Legion tough cookies. Give the MLA some goods to turn a blind eye to a little territory dispute and we should be good.
>>1937644Expanding is secondary - we need to give the Legion / MLA a leg up in their war, otherwise it will be us vs. an NCR which dominates the entire Western portion of the US.
>>1937755>Expanding is secondaryNo it ain't.
>>1937749>Its an arc with a fixed -9.8m/s downward acceleration. Even a high school student wouldn't claim that has any accuracy in the real world. You are forgetting atmospheric interference which would be incredibly hard to calculate accurately when one considers the Divide's storms, wind, the aerodynamic properties of the shell and shit. And even if, IF, they somehow did figure out the shells were coming from the Divide. It is unlikely they'd be able to actually do anything and even then, they'd probably assume it was conventional artillery and thus hit somewhere we aren't. Seeing as they'd have no reason to believe the shells would've been launched by a rail gun.>We don't know about MLA-Legion- Act quickly enough, we tell the Legion tough cookies. Give the MLA some goods to turn a blind eye to a little territory dispute and we should be good. And when they tell us to give all that shit back or else? What the fuck then? Oh wait, you have nothing for the "inconceivable" scenario that everything won't go to plan when you literally invade another nation and then say "Sorry, I didn't know you were allies, no-takesies-backsies, this is mine now!" like a petulant child.>>1937755And we will find it far easier to give them any sorts of leg up when we are larger.
>>1937836It's enough for a rough estimate. And that's all they really need. Not like shells are going to be doing any loops. And when they find out it's us, they bomb the shit out of our city because its close to their borders and taking hostile action.It's an idea. And it isn't like the MLA wants to play conflict resolution for other people. MLA would likely tell us to deal with it ourselves, and then we use the NCR to make space and take the legion's attention away. Give them a nudge towards pushing towards arizona so the legion cuts its loses in the mojave to protect flagstaff and phoenix and other places of importance.
>>1937882>It's enough for a rough estimate. And that's all they really need. Not when they are underestimating the range of the guns firing on them greatly. >Not like shells are going to be doing any loops. Shells could be made to do loops or any other number of things if it would get you to shut the hell up.>And when they find out it's us, they bomb the shit out of our city because its close to their borders and taking hostile action.IF, they found out it was us. Sure but that is incredibly unlikely.>It's an idea. And it isn't like the MLA wants to play conflict resolution for other people. MLA would likely tell us to deal with it ourselves, and then we use the NCR to make space and take the legion's attention away. Give them a nudge towards pushing towards arizona so the legion cuts its loses in the mojave to protect flagstaff and phoenix and other places of importance.I feel you are really underestimating just how much they give a damn. I feel that if we go ahead with this plan, assuming we only had to deal with the Legion's anger, we'd still be fucked.It is an idea, just as a chocolate teapot is.
>>1937995They wouldn't be underestimating the range once they realize the only possibility is from us. Also, the shells are going to be poking hole in the cloud cover, if you are actually shooting them with a rail gun, so that is real easy to spot from above. Like with UAVs that the NCR has.It would be very likely that they find us because they aren't dumb and can do problem solving. If their initial range estimates are wrong, do you think they assume the MLA has magic invisible, teleporting artillery, or their initial assumption was flawed?Look at the map. The Mojave region is a bit sticking out of regular Legion territory with 2 ways in or out. The I93 and the I 15. Convince the NCR to push from the fort in Bullhead city to Flagstaff along the I40 and no reinforcements from the south to the mojave. If the legion wants to get forces to us from the north they have to go around the grand canyon and skirt the border with Utah. Which would mean taking troops from Phoenix and Flagstaff, leaving them vulnerable.New Vegas is separated from the MLA by the Madre, so we don't have to worry about them getting involved.
>>1938062>They wouldn't be underestimating the range once they realize the only possibility is from us. You do realise that the MLA could cross the seemingly friendly Legion and use their supermutants to sustain an artillery base?>Also, the shells are going to be poking hole in the cloud cover, if you are actually shooting them with a rail gun, so that is real easy to spot from above. Like with UAVs that the NCR has.I don't know how big you imagine these shells to be but that is essentially impossible and even if that were true they'd be looking for a hole at an angle though a massive cloud of dust dozens of meters thick potentially. Essentially impossible.>It would be very likely that they find us because they aren't dumb and can do problem solving. If their initial range estimates are wrong, do you think they assume the MLA has magic invisible, teleporting artillery, or their initial assumption was flawed?I think they'll assume that their enemy's artillery position is either well built or that they restored it to functionality or, and this is something you might want to consider, that the enemy artillery is closer than they thought and is in fact smaller resulting in it shots landing at similar angles.>All that shit about the location of the Mojave.Don't care. It's a retarded idea. It'll put us into a state of war with the MLA and Legion.Also you are assuming that the Legion can't afford whatever losses we'd induce and that the number of troops required to beat us back is enough to leave positions, behind those troops, "vulnerable" when they've been managing to throw millions down the drain against the NCR for literal years now without issue. When the NCR has far greater numbers to fight against them with.
guys if we start shit with any faction we need to be able to finish it.that means industrial capacity to produce approx. 20,000 robot units a month, with similar vehicle and air support. for years.ideally I would like a robot army numbering around .5 million.
>>1937451"Holy shit, look at it. Holy damn am I glad I'm not the bait here""It's like something outta that space holo movie. The one with the laser swords.""I'm starting to think this might not be a good idea.""Oi! Shut it you lot. There ain't no turning back now. I'm the bloody Warlord here, and I say we're going to fuck em. My pal Six built the engines for these things, and the Dark Reavers put some high quality weapons on em.""Boss! The Ghost Division's moving over the trap!"Another voice barges in on the radio, a girls voice."Alright boys, it's just about time! Get to your positions now!""Oi! You heard Ma! Get cracking!"The sound of propulsor jets rocketing off, objects zoomed through the air as the low leve fliers massed.A deeper, less human voice spoke. "all groups report in."Warlord Bishop standing By""Warlord Niner standing by""Black Knight standing by""Alpha Basim, standing by""Professor Evil standing by.""General Maddock, standing by.""Hecate standing by.""All groups reported in. We're approaching the targets now. Lock Jet Coils in attack positions.""Fuck they aren't even over the trap? But-!""Well then we'll need to lure them over it.""That wasn't part of the plan""Stay calm fellas. These bucket of bolts will get us through""May the Dark God be with us. . .">con't
>>1938129Fucking star wars reference.
>>1938122Agreed. Although I debate the need to have .5 million. Seeing as ours are so high quality unless most of those end up being things like assaultrons and we include drone craft. Anyhow, fact is for the next dozen turns we should just be focusing on churning out solar arrays and construction stuff.Main point is we really need to get to work on economic shit and expanding where we can.>>1938129Fuck yes. On the other hand: holy shit this is dangerous please work out.
>>1938104Yeah, except supermutants leave traces, or would be seen or anything. The NCR has air superiority. They see the battlefield for miles. If there is artillery fire, but no artillery, there going to be looking elsewhere. The shells would be going up real fast. Hitting the clouds and pull some of it up with it like a needle pulling thread. That is noticeable. Would also be noticable with radar, so in the end, they would see it was us.Except you said building stuff in the divide. So the fact the shots are coming from the south means it can't be the NCR, because that's us, and the MLA has no presence in the divide. The MLA building up artillery does not make the divide start shooting them.War with the Legion only. The MLA wouldn't care. Its not their problem. And vulnerable just means something the legion has to deal with. They won't lose, but they won't be able to ignore an NCR spear If the NCR pushes forward from Bullhead, to the 93, then the Legion won't have an avenue to attack the mojave.
>>1938150>Agreed. Although I debate the need to have .5 million. Seeing as ours are so high quality unless most of those end up being things like assaultrons and we include drone craft. Anyhow, fact is for the next dozen turns we should just be focusing on churning out solar arrays and construction stuff.Can we actually? I recommended this a few threads ago and some anons agreed with me but we never did it.
>>1938161We are putting everythign on building the cold fusion plant, which would be better than solar in terms of energy.I don't understand what that anon's obsession with solar power is. We have better methods of power generation.
>>1938129>My pal Six built the engines for these thingsIt makes me wish we'd given him more kickass engines.
>>1938155Fuck it, if I get the chance I'm doing this plan but fact is that since I'm suggesting we do >>1938161, this'd be a dozen turns away. So we can discuss this much later.>>1938161We almost certainly can. In fact I was going to recommend having our ZAX take a look into optimising our solar array designs and improving the efficiency of our solar panels.>>1938170Solar power is passive and consumes no resources for us once set up. It is also reliable, consistent and entirely safe. Not to mention looking cool as hell.Also, clearly we are finishing that fusion reactor since we've spent so much time trying to build the bloody thing.
>>1938170I don't know what his deal is but i like solar power cause its cheap, fast to build and is a good use of all our land.
>>1938193>We almost certainly can. In fact I was going to recommend having our ZAX take a look into optimising our solar array designs and improving the efficiency of our solar panels.No, there are more important jobs for the ZAX to do.
>>1938129C'mon! I hope the Legionaries taking a ride w/ the raiders is a one time thing and their won't be a Caesar's Dark Legion of anything like that.
>>1938220I suppose. Could just use a normal research action.
>>1938193We actually used only 1 action on the fusion reactor thus far. So we haven't built too much.Solar energy is very resource intensive, lot of rare earth metals and complex electronics. For very little comparative gain. And fusion power currently only takes water, which isn't exactly a limited resource. We can probably drill into some very deep aquifers if we ever need more water.
>>1938262Oh for god sake, your HIM! Look, we built a solar array awhile back on the cheap without issue so I will say this again, for the last time, SOLAR AIN'T EXPENSIVE.As to having the ability to get more water, not from our current lands unless you want to decontaminate the Divide rivers which would be an insane project.
>>1938269>your HIM!The guy from Powerpuffs?
>>1938269It was cheapish, but didn't contribute all that much. Not compared to what the fusion reactor will give. In the long run, with how solar panels need replacing, and their pretty terrible efficiency, Cold fusion is much more bang for our buck. Also more secure, as we don't leave our power generation laying about in the middle of the desert.And we don't need clean water. We can use the irradiated water in the fusion plants. No decontamination needed, and no taking potable water. No issue there.
>>1938288You are comparing a small solar array to a large fusion reactor. Of course there is a difference in terms of output but more importantly there was a difference in terms of how long it took to build.Also, we've had our solar array for 5 odd years now and maintenance has never been an issue or it is entirely automated. So you are talking about something that ain't a problem.Plus a fusion reactor by any logic should need just as much if not more maintenance for safety reasons.
>>1938269You are being pants-on-head right now. QM already stated that, outside "hot" fusion, cold fusion is the best thing ever (that we know of). Since it needs minuscule amounts of water isotopes as fuel we will literally never run out.So no, as >>1938288 mentioned, solar has many drawbacks fusion doesnt have. We go fusion.
>>1938313If he outright says that, I'll be silent. However until he responds to this post with a statement that cold fusion is objectively worse for the purposes of growing our power supply I won't.
>>1938364Meant to say Solar not cold fusion. It is 2: 30 AM here, like hell I can proof-read my posts anymore.
>>1938364>until he responds to this post with a statement that cold fusion is objectively worse>worseWhat?If I remember correctly, solar was at the shit end of the list to begin with. This was back when the first argument over Fusion VS Solar came up and why we are currently building a fusion reactor.
>>19383734:30 AM here. Also drunk. Off to bed.I assume youre british?
>>1938364You really think laying solar panels across all of the mojave natural preserve is a better option than cold fusion?Where it's affected by weather, and wind, and animals and everything else?
>>1938269Your right, Solar isn't expensive, However Cold Fusion is worth the time and effort. Ontop of that, your not factoring in the fact Solar shuts down at night where as cold fusion can be ran 24/7
>>1938208But it only operates at 50% potential because it gets dark at night..Conversely, cold fusion works around the clock and is completely independent of the weather. We do get big dust storms at BigMT, remember.
>>1938380Might've been. Can't remember.>>1938395Scottish but same difference.>>1938402Laying? No. Current set up expanded and replicated. Solar mirrors and central tower. Not solar panels.>>1938409Ours generates power during night time using heat energy gathered during the day.
>>1938440I know i know, i've been reading what anons are writing about cold fusion.How about we build some of those Small-medium Cold fusion plants that are fast to construct? We can use them to power new robot factories, war factories and Replicators.
>>1938476That would work for me. We should also design it as a modular system so we can mass produce a combination robot factory / cold fusion power plant. It would serve as the centre of all of our new colonies.The one in BigMT has to be large though as to power the Brain Vault + NW's eventual defence grid
>>1938450>Cold fusion24 hours of production>Solar plants12 hours of sunlight to soak up to go through the entire night and repeatWhich is better?
>>1938494Regardless, our goal right now should be becoming a proper nation in the fastest and/or easiest way possible, whether that's though assimilating what independent colonies remain in Montana or making robot factory-towns in our territory.
>>1938129>"Oi! Shut it you lot. There ain't no turning back now. I'm the bloody Warlord here, and I say we're going to fuck em. My pal Six built the engines for these things, and the Dark Reavers put some high quality weapons on em.">My pal Six built the engines for these things,>tfw this is our only major contribution besides maybe selling some junk weapons, and their entire plan hinges on this. A half-assed contribution at that.
>>1938608Any ways, that isn't good for us. We don't want our name on anything like this.
>>1938608Niner is our topbro, even if he does toss the shells of former officers bodies to get fucked by mutant dogs sometimes.Feels like a betrayal to not do better by him. He's always so goddamn positive about us.
>>1938608Good fucking thing we designed them to look like shit but function like gods.
>>1938550Dunno we'd need the per hour productions of both as well as knowledge of how much the solar arrays produce at night.Then we also need to consider the resources put into constructing each of them in terms of labour, metal and such. >>1938561Agreed.>>1938608I did say we should make this design as good as possible...
>>1938608>>tfw this is our only major contribution besides maybe selling some junk weapons, and their entire plan hinges on this. A half-assed contribution at that.>tfw the half-assed contribution works.>tfw we still have blueprints and can go all out on improving them.
>>1938626Well He is a psycho-murder-rapist, so I'm perfectly fine with screwing him over.
To be fair, if the NCR's laser shit is working even slightly like it does in Command and Conquer, then planes are actually a solid counter. Assuming they are fast, long ranged and not using missiles.These things ARE fast, it's like the MLA's Motto. It mostly depends on what weapons got mounted onto them...
>>1938656by that logic Courier is a manipulative Mind Raping despot and deserves whatever horrible shit happens to him.which is probably true.
>>1938656That's because you've got no heart or soul.
>>1938656>Anon doesn't realize we're in the same shoe
>>1938656>>1938676To be fair, both the Courier and Niner are entirely in the right in their ideological beliefs.We are right, because we are working towards some perceived greater good / brighter future / better world and thus these sacrifices and atrocities result in less suffering long term in theory.He is right, because his belief is that the strong should rule, will rule, must rule. If he rules and can impose his beliefs on others, he must be right because he is stronger and must be stronger in order to rule.>>1938679Also this. He's a bad guy but that doesn't mean he is a bad guy.Like, a killer is a bad guy but that doesn't mean he is a cunt.
>>1938682We don't kill people for the joy of it, or take rape slaves and institute slavery, so we're still several moral tiers above him.
>>1938736>take rape slaves and institute slavery>Take rape slavesNo we buy slaves, thus ensuring there is a market for slaves which drives slavers. Also, we're forcing our own PERSONAL views on our nation and plan on debraining them to ensure they can stay competitive against robots on purpose. Our slavery is abit different but its still the same.
>>1938748>Also, we're forcing our own PERSONAL views on our nationYou say that as if our view isn't best.Is this gonna be the return of the Economic-Ideological arguments?
>>1938748Its all consenual. The brains can quit if they want to, or go back into their body if they both want it.It's also not slavery- just an economic system based on state control of funds.
>>1938770Oh fuck no, I could careless. I just want that anon to understand we really aren't better then Niner.>>1938772>The brains can quit if they want to, or go back into their body if they both want it.>Literally the only way to stay in a position that matters or in a job is to stay a brain in a jarYou don't seem to understand what strong-arming is, also are you really telling me economic system's cannot be used to keep people in a type of slavery?
>>1938786>Oh fuck no, I could careless. I just want that anon to understand we really aren't better then Niner.But i also think we're better than Niner.
>>1938608Oi, we digged them tunnels and marked down good shit for them to hit. I'd say we did bretty good.
>>1938786Of course economic systems can entrap people in effective slavery, but the one we have right now is not thaaat bad. Our people get leisure time, and get to make choices for themselves.
>>1938736>We don't kill people for the joy of it, or take rape slaves and institute slavery, so we're still several moral tiers above him.We've done two of those things.>>1938748>No we buy slaves, thus ensuring there is a market for slaves which drives slavers. And there was a market anyway.>Also, we're forcing our own PERSONAL views on our nation and plan on debraining them to ensure they can stay competitive against robots on purpose. Our slavery is abit different but its still the same.By your logic we can't have any sentient beings in charge of a nation because they'll have personal views. Also, would you prefer if we made people entirely redundant and just stopped caring about them?Fact is this, we aren't enslaving our people nor more so or less so than any nation throughout history. >>1938834This, plus there is essentially no wage gap between the levels of our society and everyone has a good quality of living.
>>1938844Anon's real point is that Niner isn't a cunt to us...but we've kind of been a cunt to him.
>>1938857Isn't it more like we've been a cunt to the MLA and their dark god?
>>1938844Kill people for fun? no, that was necessity.Rape? the brain washing is pretty close, but it was for a purpose, and not just for sexual gratification or to abuse women or something.Instituted slavery? not in any form.
>>1938874>Kill people for fun? no, that was necessity.Yeah and the Courier enjoyed it.>Instituted slavery? not in any form.So literally fucking with someone's head so that they must obey and come to love you isn't slavery?
>>1938891>Yeah and the Courier enjoyed it.I have no recollection of this, who did we enjoy killing?.
>>1938899I swear OP has said we enjoyed combat at some point but I could be wrong.
>>1938891Yeah, that Is kind a kind of slavery. We're pretty shit for it. But We don't do it as long as we don't jump down the slippery slope and do it to everyone who doesn't agree with us, we're not MLA bad.
>>1938911Enjoying combat is different from enjoying murdering people. One is being an adrenaline junkie. The other is being a psychopath.
>>1938868>Go to see Niner>He offers us his finest fuckslave, because he's just that bro>We get pissed at his offer because that's our former officer>Niner personally invites us to council of Warlords>Throw a bitch fit at the gate because we don't want to take the same contract we did before>"Well if he wants his guns they'll be right HERE.">Niner wants some sick-ass engines and/or AA weapons or whatever of our amazing techbase we're willing to spare to help his guys out there dying in droves>We give him a bunch of half-ass shit even though anyone with a brain knows we can build something 10x better than that>Thanks us anyway and sends over a Brotherhood Behemoth they had to work really hard to get>Riding in some junker hoverbikes>"Oh shit, this isn't going to plan. Maybe we should retreat?">"FUCK YOU GUYS, MY BUDDY SIX BUILT THESE ENGINES AND WE'RE GONNA PULL THROUGH!"
>>1938919I find it hard to believe that one would exit the experience of having killed a dozen people and enjoy it. Without being a psychopath or similarly disturbed.Need sleep, see you all in like 12-14 hours.
>>1938923I thought we just made it 'look' shit, not that it was sub-par or half assed?
>>1938923I'm glad I'm not the only one who recognize Niner as a real bro.
>>1938932I'm not sure, I think we actually mainly just manufactured the things after receiving the blueprints. Either way, we definitely had the capacity to make them some seriously kickass stuff and didn't. Which wouldn't be a big deal except Niner's our bro.
>>1938940Fuck now, I feel bad. I know I wanted it too look like total shit so that the NCR would think 'oh the savages just made new kit.' but i hope to god we didn't give some sub-par shit.
>>1938923behemoth was for designing the hovercraft. the weapons got us some slaves and shit.>>1938932It's decent stuff just not as exceptional as we could've probably made it.>>1938935He is a pretty good guy.>>1938947Nah, it's probably fine. I mean they had their engineers do most of the designing then had us crunch the raw numbers for the complex shit like the engines.Chances are everything is fine.
>>1938923The contract wasn't the same. It was a long term contract, which is why we rejected it.
>>1938923>>He offers us his finest fuckslave, because he's just that broNo he didn't, that former officer had a cult mar which meant we couldn't take her regardless if Niner offered.>Throw a bitch fit at the gate because we don't want to take the same contract we did beforeHey that contract sucked according to several anons, and we still wanted to trade with Niner after we refused it.
>>1938991He meant that Niner offered us the oppertunity to have sex with her, not to take her away.The contract meant we couldn't act against the MLA without informing them first (essentially because you could exit the contract but only realistically would if you planned on betraying them)
>>1938991And didn't he have a dog fuck her?Is it really the finest fuck slave, or just the one he was using at the time?
>>1939002>He meant that Niner offered us the oppertunity to have sex with her, not to take her away.How the hell is that a good point for Niner??? His reaction after we tell him his slave is our former officer i could understand but if that anon is actually serious about Niner being a bro for offering sex he's crazy!
>>1939017>And didn't he have a dog fuck her?Wasn't it that she fucks like a dog rather than fucking a dog?>Is it really the finest fuck slave, or just the one he was using at the time?From his point of view it might've been. He apparently had a fetish for that type of stuff.>>1939027>Niner being a bro for offering sex he's crazy!Before or after he knew it was our officer?
>>1938991Anon's threw a bitch fit about the contract because they realized if they broke it. They could't have there fucking way which is to steal/kill/ect anybody we wanted. >>1939027>Niner showed remose for it>Knew his hands were tied and said he'd treat her better.
>>1939017>And didn't he have a dog fuck her?Yes. Yes he did.
>>1939029>Before or after he knew it was our officer?It was before, kinda jumped the gun there.>>1939032>Anon's threw a bitch fit about the contract because they realized if they broke it. They could't have there fucking way which is to steal/kill/ect anybody we wanted.Anons are planing that for everybody though.>Niner showed remose for it>Knew his hands were tied and said he'd treat her better.If you're trying to use that as a argument for Niner being a bro then i already beat you to the punch.
>>1938786>Oh fuck no, I could careless. I just want that anon to understand we really aren't better then Niner.But we are...
>>1939049>Anons are planing that for everybody though.It's true. A large part of the reason is we don't see much of a reason to try assimilating them or aren't capable of doing so. Seeing as how collectively our faction and community have terrible diplomacy and we haven't bothered much with culture.Another part of the reason is I didn't want us to do any deals with their gods or the cultists and would've rather had it with Niner instead. It seemed like a hole that we'd be digging ourselves into.>If you're trying to use that as a argument for Niner being a bro then i already beat you to the punch.>then i already beat you to the punch.So you plan on punching him now?
>>1939059>So you plan on punching him now?We truly are the worst at diplomacy.
>>1939059>Another part of the reason is I didn't want us to do any deals with their gods or the cultists and would've rather had it with Niner instead. It seemed like a hole that we'd be digging ourselves into.Yep, a perfectly reasonable worry to have, and that anon is trying to frame that as "bitching".>So you plan on punching him now?You know that's a figure of speech you little bastard you.
>>1939059>Another part of the reason is I didn't want us to do any deals with their gods or the cultists and would've rather had it with Niner instead. It seemed like a hole that we'd be digging ourselves into.The funny part is it was an agreement for our own protection, We don't lose anything unless we break the agreement.
>>1938129Pretty Good thread. I want to see how this battle goes.Also did we really half ass the engines or do they just look like Ass? I didn't catch every turn we did.
>>1939352They should be very acceptable. Like B+ grade. We didn't throw in all the bells and whistles. I think the troops are just apprehensive because its new tech and a weird flying vehicle.
>>1938129"Rockets are no good. Use the Plasma, start heating up their armor.""Keep low! Stay out of the arc of those AA Jeeps.""Foam. Use the fucking foam already.""Drone parts clogging my engines.""I'm not gonna make it. I'm-""I got the Microwave Tank! I got it!""Basim, drop your Deathclaws on em. My supermutants will cover you.""It's working, their breaking off to pursue us. Just a bit more and they'll be over the bomb.""Come on you shiny sons of bitches, COME AND GET IT!"---->Sometime, some place"Gentlemen. Explain to me how we lost the 7th Tank Division.""Well, sir. We encountered fierce resistance.""All resistance is fierce resistance against the Legion. Elaborate.""Sir, 7th Division was effectively engaging the massed MLA and Legion troops to provide time for our lines to stabilize. They were outnumbered, but sufficiently armed to deal with the threat at hand.Shortly after we were attacked by. . .hovercraft.""What kind of hovercraft""Various models sir. At least 50. Most were what can be described as heavily armed attack fliers, flying below the range of the Vengeance AA platforms. Others were rapid troop carriers or delivered large plasma bombs. They struck from the south, while MLA vehicles attacked from the North and the Legion arrived from the east completely surrounding 7th Division.""7th has been surrounded before and pulled through. Tell me more.""The enemy deployed some sort of . . .insulation foam. A material our chemical analysts are trying to deduce now, but it appears to contain amounts of pulverized lead, alluminium, copper wiring, and several other electromagnetic insulation. They poured these on our tanks. Simultaneously, deployed Death Claws and Super Mutants were dropped directly onto the tanks themselves and destroyed opticals and prevented repair drones from making repairs.""Go on""The Automated Tanks percieved the greater threat was the hovercraft, and broke off from the main force to pursue them as well as break out of encirclement.The Legion and MLA main forces did not pursue, and proceeded to scatter when we returned fire with artillery and aircraft.7th Division chased the hovercraft despite a lack of available sensors and diminished optics. . .then, from what we can only gather from what camera data remains from transmissions, the ground exploded beneath them. Spikes in the geiger counters lead us to believe tactical nuclear weapons were deployed.""A bomb. They blew up 7th Tank division with a nuclear bomb?""Several actually, there were indicators of multiple explosions. Aerial surveilance of the region shows no tracks and no signs of digging prior to the battle, somehow the bombs were there beneath the ground without us noticing.""I see. Is there anything else to report?""Following the destruction of 7th Tank Division, our aerial forces deployed the Mustard Gas as you ordered General. We don't know how effective it is, but anyone caught would be dead.">con't
>>1939496"Following the destruction of 7th Tank Division, our aerial forces deployed the Mustard Gas as you ordered General. We don't know how effective it is, but anyone caught would be dead."Oh boy this might be bad, if the warlords are dead the cult will take over.
>>1939496>"Following the destruction of 7th Tank Division, our aerial forces deployed the Mustard Gas as you ordered General. We don't know how effective it is, but anyone caught would be dead.">Thatswhatyouthink.jpg
>>1939496"The hovercraft escaped sir, along with a number of vehicles but we believe we caught numerous Legion and MLA forces. . .as well as any of our own in the area. Mostly captured POW's""A mercy no doubt. We know what the mutants and rebel scum do to prisoners.""Sir, our analysts believe the MLA may have a new network of tunnels beneath the front. It doesn't seem possible for the bombs to have been planted or for their forces to have appeared otherwise.""I see. You are dismissed, officers.""Sir."The room was cleared, and the General turned to his Radio."Did you hear that Mr. President""You bet your ass I did.""Is it time then, do we proceed with the next phase?""Almost, not yet. I'm going to have to move ahead of schedule. Hold the line for now, fall back where you need to. I'll be in the Capital to address the public.""We dropped the gas on the area, that should deter any further infantry attacks and buy us time to regroup.""If this war should teach us anything General Blackthorne, its never to be too sure of anything. Have a fallback plan just in case. ""Yes Mr. President."
>>1939533>"Is it time then, do we proceed with the next phase?">"Almost, not yet. I'm going to have to move ahead of schedule.Oh boy that's forebodingm this might be us dying soon.Can we start making robot-towns now like i describe in >>1938561 ?
>>1939536Can't do things in Montanna until we deal with the Barons. They won't like us muscling in on their turf.
>>1939548>Can't do things in Montanna until we deal with the Barons. They won't like us muscling in on their turf.I agree, which is why i wanna build robo-towns instead.
>>1939551The autonomous factories with the built in power, yeah?Its a good idea, and should be looked at after we finish the current suite of civic improvements. Would have to see the state of the world then to decide for sure.
The sun did not shine through the gas. Pitch black. But even had the sky been blue, the sun been shining white, and the air clear, those caught in the cloud of death would not have seen anyway.Their eyes were shut closed, the tear ducts too swollen to cry. Their skin roiled and bubbled with pus filled buboes, men writhed on the ground in pain. Pain, and hatred.Hatred, for the NCR, at having been betrayed. Poisoned with noxious gas meant for the enemy.Hatred, for the Legion, to die such an ignominous death. Not in glorious battle or even to a magnificent explosion, but like caged animals.Hatred, for the MLA. Some because hatred was all they knew, or because they did not want to die.They cried out to medics, to mother, and to their gods.Perhaps, one did answer. Through the thick haze of smoke, a sound of large and powerful speakers buzzing in silence, interrupted only by the brief sounds of guitars tuning and instruments calibrated.And then, there was sound.>con't
>>1939571>Perhaps, one did answer. Through the thick haze of smoke, a sound of large and powerful speakers buzzing in silence, interrupted only by the brief sounds of guitars tuning and instruments calibrated.>And then, there was sound.Ulysses?
>>1939575I don't think music is his style. Or the MLA.
NCR troopers sat at their trenches. Beneath their chemical suits and respiratory masks, their fanatical patriotism was tempered by the sight of the field of visible mustard gas before them. It did not have to be visible, indeed this was to create a morale effect against the Legion and to warn NCR troopers to stay out of the area. Nobody would dare to march through this cloud of caustic painful death. Not human, supermutant, or ghoul.They chattered on, rumors about the 7th Panzer division being destroyed, about the number of dead on both sides. About what should be done, what would be done. Anything to keep their minds off the thought that, perhaps their streaks of victory had come to an end.Any such thoughts were shattered by the sound of a drum beat. Coming from the fog.Alarms rang, hearts pounded, men ran to their trenches and armor prepared to open fire. They expected perhaps some MLA in stolen NBC suits, or pluck airtight trucks or hovercraft trying to punch through the smoke.The drum beat continued, and gave way to music.---The masses were half dead already. Pain had opened their minds. Hatred would open their souls. They would be left bare and exposed to the will of the Elder One. The singer would be His voice.The cloud burned his exposed flesh, which healed over. He was standing next to open barrels of nuclear waste, and the Elder One took his pain away long ago.Through the thick fog of gas, a different color streaked from a flatbed truck which bore a band and a myriad of massive speakers. The mist flowed, red in color, almost alive, as searching for the still living in the fog. It smothered them, covering their skin. Which fell from their bodies.In the gas cloud, on the back of a flatbed truck turned into a stage, dark reavers manned the speakers, inhuman cultists and tribals danced, the band began to play, and the singer began to sing.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V02WZvLE_R0The singer himself was twice marked, by his skinlessness and now by a new mark to the Elder One. He sang a song imbued with the very will of his god.He sang of anger. Of rage. of hate. And of a promise by the Elder One to give them the power to make manifest, to obey his will and gain their revenge.
>>1939629Fuck. Cloud with the MLA. And Elijah doesn't seem the type to share.
>>1939629As the skin fell from their bodies, their eyes opened, their ears could hear. The massed horde of former friends and foes, in trooper uniforms, legion armor, or raider suits, were now unified by the singing. The truck burst with pyrotechnical displays of fire and light and the very air shook with the force of the speakers.The mighty crowd of red skinless beings pledged the Elder one their soul for revenge.---The NCR troopers on the front lines heard only the music, the inhuman growling, and the sound of feet marching. They could not see. Those to the very front were lucky. The dead leaped from the gas cloud and swarm them quickly, ripping their limbs and heads. They died quickly. The rest would not be so fortunate.END BATTLE CINEMATIC
>>1939634Alright, i think the war is balanced now, can we return to building ourselves up now?
>>1939643I'm working on the previous turn update. didn't mean for this to take so very long, just trying to chip in as much as I can when I can.
>>1939634Jesus Christ what the Fuck.
>>1939633This seems awfully mary sue. How the fuck did they get cloud generators from Madre? Elijah wanting to spread it for kicks? An alternative voodo-hoodo thing? Why does everybody have ridiculous tech (though teleporters are pretty whack too)?
>>1939643We do have to be concerned about what is apparently Elijah "recruiting". We need to start stocking some anti-cloud, and getting anti-hologram weapons.
>>1939654I'm probably wrong about ELijah working with the MLA. I think this is just Elijah scavenging the dieing. Probably his first time poking at the borders of surrounding states.
>>1939634Ok, definitely voodo-hoodo. Make a mental note to include airtight systems in all our armor and build tankitrons as our main brick shithouse. Also get a sample of that stuff (assuming we have a way of knowing about it outside meta).
>>1939663As far as the Courier is concerned, he's planning how to bed another of his companions. Also matters of state and stuff like that.Might as well have some of the background stuff going on be more than a little line in my notes.
>>1939659If it was Elijah there wouldnt be spooky-scary-skellingtons. This seems, at the least, a derivative. Likely its whole own thing.Voodo Death Gass, for Men! ©
>>1939668ELijah has his ghosts. We never see them without their suits, and we know the cloud is caustic. Not unreasonable to assume it melts the skin off, while they get brainwashed by the power of rock and roll.
>>1939690Going Marked Men is ok by me. If ghouls are a thing skinless mind-zombies can be a thing too. What I mean is that literal skeleton monsters is an Elder God thing, possible only through magic.
>>1939695Where are you getting skeletons from? Seems like they're marked men/ghosts>red skinless beings
>>1939634>The deadAnd the picture.If I am mistaken, then probably Elijah or weaponized Divide storms.
Hey QM, can you post our projects progress again?
>>1939702This wasn't the Cloud - it was mustard gas.I don't believe Elijah is involved at all.
>>1939764>>1939629>The mist flowed, red in color, almost alive, as searching for the still living in the fog. It smothered them, covering their skin.Seems a different thing to me, unless they have magic gas-coloring crayon magic.
Could we use the new tunnel diggers to smuggle nuclear warheads under strategtic targets like the frontier fortress?
>>1939874We can use our normal ones. Just make it a bit smaller and stuff the cargo hold full of nukes.Also, we should start thinking about this more actively. Since the NCR suspects MLA tunnels we can freely use our tunnel bots to nuke their installations. Cheap and disposable, with an effect big enough (doesnt even have to blow up all that much, the seismic tremors and collapses will destroy any building) and the MLA taking all the heat. As long as they dont link it back to us, that is.Also, a failsafe where, if the digger ever loses connection, the nuke detonates instantly (so no EMP fuckery and retrieval).
>>1939876Agreed but I would like if we could attempt to deploy some covert teams to capture any scientific or officer staff present. We can take the brains for memory reading and discover any technologies and shit they've developed or locations we've missed.After which we can induce non-sentience (aka loboificiation) and sell them to the MLA in return for one of these NCR laser tanks or something.Still though we've got so much to do and so little time to do it. I think that getting Montana under our control will make this all much simpler in a few years what with the expanded population, pre-war stuff we can restore / make use of and all the resources.
>>1939882Honestly, I see us putting Montana on the passive backburner. Spend a few turns to set up a system that goes on in the background while we build up NW, fusion and replicators. We have enough resources from the Divide at the moment to fully invest in replicator tech. Once we have that up we can focus on large scale projects without constant worry of resources (especially rare materials, which includes beryllium). This frees us up to use more actions for actual development (NW defence, public education, healthcare and robotics and so on).As to capturing scientist, sure. But that has to be more thought-out, since we have to actually breach the surface and escape, as opposed to dig under and asplode.
>>1939654Doesn't seem like Cloud to me. Seems like some Elder God fuckery.
>>1939887>Honestly, I see us putting Montana on the passive backburner. Spend a few turns to set up a system that goes on in the background while we build up NW, fusion and replicators. We have enough resources from the Divide at the moment to fully invest in replicator tech. Once we have that up we can focus on large scale projects without constant worry of resources (especially rare materials, which includes beryllium). This frees us up to use more actions for actual development (NW defence, public education, healthcare and robotics and so on).Eh, I agree it'll be on the back burner compared to NW and getting the replicators and all that set up but imagine what we could do with another thousand researchers? Another dozen towns and their assorted industries. It'll certainly bring us closer to being a true nation-state but I respect you wanting to focus on what you want to focus on, mostly because I agree that it is our future.I do also believe however we need to get a colony up in Texas and in Florida. One because of the lack of any sorts of competing factions besides the giant plant horrors and it's massive undisturbed material surplus meaning if we can set up a replication system there and a few robots to gather supplies and build then we can leave it working without too much worry. The other because it contains the NASA shit we will need for most space travel and it contains the only remaining general base on the continental US but this one is an actual proper command base unlike the one we've captured. More like the thing the NCR have.>As to capturing scientist, sure. But that has to be more thought-out, since we have to actually breach the surface and escape, as opposed to dig under and asplode.True but the fact is that we can do both plans at once, with the bomb acting to cover up our breach and actions while also preventing capture should they manage to respond before the team can pull out.
>>1939887I wouldn't be so sure that we'd get access to beryllium, though it's always possible.
>>1939915Well in theory we could produce it with our replicators but the amount of energy and mass needed for even a small amount would make it prohibitively expensive.
yeah remeber that cult and god the MLA are worshiping?Thats former Elder Elijah. now styling himself an Elder God.Elijah has taken over the MLA. completely now that he has exposed most of the warlords to the Cloud.and he has likely captured most of the NCR troops on that front.he needs to die, post haste or we wont be able to deal with him effectively anymore.
>>1939924Yeah no that is the single most insane thing I've heard in my entire life.
>>1939926oh yes its completely unheard of for someone in fallout to use super science to pass themselves off as a god.oh wait, no its not. it is in fact a common theme found in most of the games.it would clearly be impossible for the guy who can appear as a giant indestructible hologram to command awe and respect.replicators could never be mistaken for miraculous abilities no siree bob.
>>1940083That fails to explain them gaining strength comparable to supermutants or anything else of the sort by sacrificing slaves / POWs.Not to mention, the fact that their contract would invoke some magical powers which Elijah outright doesn't have.Or how about the fact that the MLA are technologically capable and would be able to identify holograms and shit?Also, replicators can hardly be mistaken for miraculous abilities given that they aren't something you can exactly hide away on your person and have generate anything you will.
>>1940162there is no such thing as magic. seriously. psionics is as close as it comes.
>>1940083But remember the red men say "elder god" while the MLA say "dark god"Elijah is doing his own thing, getting more ghosts, but not with the MLA.
>>1940196What about the Dunwich Building and other references to eldritch stuff?>>1940203No, they say elder god too.
>>1940207I think they have been pretty consistant with "Dark God">>1938129>"May the Dark God be with us. . ."
>>1940234They've used it interchangeably with "The Elder One" "The Great Dark One" and other shit along those lines. The dude on the rock metal palanquin is clearly one of the Marked Men the MLA took as slaves who's been branded by the Dark God and is now rocking out for him.
>>1940242Not necessarily. It could be a ghost that ELijah is using to hurriedly indoctrinate his new ghost army.
>>1940242>>1940244For examplehttp://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/1772342/Post: 1777063Where VincentVincent references sacrificing a bunch of the Marked Men to the Elder One.It's very clearly the MLA, and there's very clearly Cult magic going on.
>>1939907If we can come up with an automated colonization solution (the behemoth, if properly guarded, is a pretty good option imo) I have no problem automating Florida and other places (a Hero action here and there is totally fine). Just as long as we gain more than we have to put in (like constant build actions or civ actions for development) I fully support this. However, actions are needed back home to better our production (replicator) tech and grow our powerbase big enough to project through teleporters to the corners of our empire.>>1939907>True but the fact is that we can do both plans at onceDidnt say we couldnt, just that those plans have to be better than "surface, grab, gtfo". The bomb idea is very simple, considering we can send the thing hundreds of meters deep and only come up near the target, no need for air or food or anything, dig for weeks if need be. Smuggling out a dude is more complicated.>>1939915Considering we can make other light elements I dont see why we couldnt replicate this. If QM says "nuhuh, too OP" we can spend some research on it and just make the replicators even better (which we will anyway). >>1939921Considering Be, with an atomic number of 4, is pretty light I dont see us spending that much mass or energy on it. Pretty little actually, since it is barely a step away from helium.
>>1940348But this is a special super isotope of beryllium. It's going to be different to replicate.
>>1940378"Doctor! We just made this complex circuitboard by specifically combining protons, neutrons and electrons in a pre-designed pattern! But THIS material with protons, neutrons and electrons in a pre-designed pattern is impossible!"Doesnt really make sense. It is QM slowing down our progress and I dont see why we cant spend a few research actions to solve the problem.
>>1940378>>1940384As it stands you can't even replicate stuff from scratch in the first place without your disintegrator replicator being operational.Certainly you can make Beryllium, but it would be by far the most energy taxing thing to produce, even already exceeding that of having to compress all the energy of Fissile Material into Fissile Material.Imagine having to gather the energy of one nuclear bomb, and then compressing that into a super dense form.
>>1940384>slowing down progressSometimes I'm tempted to actually do that for once so that there's an appreciation of the difference of what that actually means.
>>1940447Don't be a dick because a few faggots want to whine.
>>1940439>disintegrator replicatorThis was implied. The large, make anything into everything, replicator.>>1940439>Certainly you can make Beryllium, but it would be by far the most energy taxing thing to produceWhy? What makes it so expensive?>>1940439>Imagine having to gather the energy of one nuclear bomb, and then compressing that into a super dense form.What? How is that relevant? What you are building up here is Be 4(or whatever isotope) being exeedingly expensive to create, despite a)Not being a heavy experimental particle b)Not being a shortlived or in any other way hard to storeBasically, why is Be so much more expensive/hard to create when we can make microchips and not bat an eye?
>>1940447>1940447Yeah, some people equate things not going as they planned in their heads as you intentionally being against them. Rather than you not breaking the game by letting everyone get what they ask for.
>>1940454I ask for internal consistency and an explenation why Be is exempt from this. If he competently explains this I will shut my trap.
>>1940472Its a super heavy isotope of beryllium that requires a lot of power to force all the neutrons into place and lock them into a semi-stable state so the power can be siphoned off as needed, using some techobabble method. I don't know.He took the beryllium from the super rare beryllium agitator form FO4. The stuff we need being rare and almost impossible to acquire is consistent with the lore.
>>1940453>Why? What makes it so expensive?Because, in its refined form, this specific Beryllium Isotope is exceedingly potent and is currently the most potent fuel source ever applied by the hand of man. There's a reason the governments of the world used it soley for their nuclear weapons, and those weren't even in their full theoretical yield. It can be thought of as the substance which destroyed the world, more than uranium or plutonium combined.That and it was so very difficult to try and get it to work for a stable nuclear reaction. Only one recorded potential instance of a true Beryllium Agitator is known in BigMT's archives and that was in Boston. Whether it succeeded is unknown.If hydrogen for fusion can be thought of as the holy grail of nuclear fuels, then Beryllium for fission is the philosopher's stone.
>>1940488Why is it so potent? The reason Be is used in nuclear fission is its ability to slow down neutrons (allowing for more reactions, since the neutrons start to more easily hit other nuclear cores) and to add more neutrons than are required to break it (2n output isnstead of 1n for uranium). Thus, it is actually not a superfuel but a tool to get more out of the fuel and more precisely control the reaction. It cannot be a fission fuel source, since with 4 whole neutrons, it is far on the ascending side on binding energy, meaning that it GIVES energy when you fuse it and TAKES energy when you want to break it (nuclear decay is another thing). As to it being so hard to make, "locking in" is not an actual phenomenon. If you can create the particle it either degrades or is stable. Since the Be agitator in F4 is still there after 200 years it stands to reason the material is stable. Since you only have to group together a few particles (lets say under 20) it is not actually that expensive as compared to Si (which chips rely on). Basically, if forcing together neutrons and protons for an element of 15 is so expensive, we could never replicate heavier elements since those would require FAR ore energy to create (since metals are in the tens and well into the hundreds in mass). This is a random exception that doesnt make sense.
>>1940530Look, Fallout 4 has a super rare Beryllium agitator as being the source of massive power. QM is saying we need those to whatever we need them for. Stop trying to inject real world science into how something canonically is.
>>1940530Are you that anon who almost ruined the quest last time cause 'muh real world knowledge is wrong' ?
>>1940543My issue is the fact that we have a literal magick button we can make anything with, unless it is that thing we need for the next big step. My issue is that, instead of having a limiting factor like (cant make big amounts at once since the machine cant handle it or it takes time) it mathemagically doesnt work on very specific materials. If I want to make a very heavy isotope of carbon we could make it no problem, even if it broke apart moments later but this material is somehow so mary sue special we cant make it.The issue of consistency is my problem. I accept that we dont know the specific makeup of the agitator and thus cant make it (just stacking be doesnt do shit, you need the plan, for example) but (its so expensive because reasons) is not an adequate explenation. Consistency.And the other big problem is nukes. IIRC QM stated that we cant build big nukes without the stuff. Thus he randomly locks away nukes we should easily be able to make (if a bit tedious with the U235 gathering). Again, I dont want magic WIN-ALL buttons, I want internal consistency.
>>1940556Yop. Same problem as last time. I accept that there are limitations on why we cant get cool shit (you didnt see me throwing a tantrum when we couldnt build a ZAX because we lacked the know-how and the specific parts) but when those limitations arise from some magical exception to the established rules I have a problem. Again, if the problem with the agitator is we dont know the build and scheme of the thing I am fine. But since it is "THIS material is superspecial and you cant just make it" I have a problem.
>>1940563Not to mention the fact we can't even replicate nuclear weapons that we might have any actual use for like mini-nukes. As they are still locked behind a boon-barrier for some reason when logically speaking they'd be fairly simple to do with our knowledge even if we wouldn't be able to design something as refined as the pre-war shit.
>>1940577Also this. The boons-as-currency thing rubs me the wrong way something fierce. Its basically a paywall we cant get through until we wait enough, when actually we could spend extra research and unlock it earlier.
>>1940590Eh, I have less problem with that because the things behind it are meant to be incredibly powerful and hard to develop, so the boon is to be able to research them essentially.
>>1940577No they arent. We can make mininukes with the universal replicator when its up and running.
>>1940603No, we can't. When we were doing the various researches for the replicators, we never picked up the ability to produce mini-nukes or any similar device.
>>1940597If we have a reasonable way to advance the tech (this is also where player input comes in) we should be able to, instead of waiting for things to magically be solved. If it is hard as balls and we have to spend either a boon or 5 research actions on it I am also fine, but just putting it behind a paywall is bad.
>>1940617Well we advanced the replicator tech by a significant margin with the nuclear alchemy. Lets ask the qm if it would be able to make mini nukes.
>>1940619I suppose. I mean, if he outright said that we could get it by explaining something relevant to him then that'd happen more frequently.>>1940626That'd probably be for the best aye.
>>1940619It's never been like that. Boons have only ever unlocked stuff that could be achieved otherwise instantly. They reduce risk or increase speed (or both) they don't unlock magical technologies that couldn't otherwise be achieved.
>>1940646Nope. In the early threads when we first got to Big mt and were doing research into the replicators, the only way to achieve certain advances was to use a boon.
>>1940646Wrong. Remember the nuclear boon? The whole reason I went on that tirade was the fact that the "anything into everything" path was locked off for us by needing a boon. Literally, either we get a boon or we wont progress in that. Hence why i dislike this. Although player input is good (and I feel QM justly rewarded effort and time spent on research and explaining), blocking off avenues of research for balance reasons is bad.
>>1940648Okay, because we didn't have the proper research facilities at the time AND we only had 1 so we couldn't take it apart and put it back together without risk.
>>1940648Of course boons were available for relevent artwork and such, so it wasnt like it was a insurmountable obstacle.
>>1940656The QM had a difference of opinion on how the Replicators worked, you persuaded him and we got a nuclear boon...which we did burn to unlock Nuclear Alchemy for the Replicators BUT it was outright stated we didn't have to use it to unlock that tech it could be done by regular research and would just take time.
>>1940657We had many. Also QM explicitly said "you need a boon". No explenation that it was not doable in principle but that it needed a boon.>>1940660Over 33 threads we have gotten 2 boons for technical knowledge (construction and nuclear) a culture boon for pictures and a few boons for archiving (this also has changed up). The trend is to not tie the boons to actions but the passage of time. So no, it is a paywall that is very hard to overcome by explaining things or other player input.
>>1940657Nope, in order to even begin doing research into them we had to restore the entirety of the pre-war place that they were developed from the ground up in.Also one of the first researches we did was, and I think this one also took a boon, to figure out how to make more.>>1940660So your logic is because we, as players, can spend additional effort creating some piece of (relevant) art, it isn't an insurmountable obstacle? Ignoring the fact that, from my own experience drawing shit for this quest that I never posted (Another two points within this one, you assume that anons are comfortable posting shit they've made, have the freetime and the skill), that takes literal hours if you want anything good?
>>1940669No, the reason I flipped was that he stated we couldnt get it before we used a boon. Hence my crusade.>>1940678Also, very good points.
>>1940678That's my fucking point, we spent a boon on figuring out how to make more but we could've /not/ spent the boon and there would've just been a chance of failure.I swear this I've never seen a quest with players that bitched this much.
>>1940696But you dont get the point.WE COULDNT DO IT BEFORE WE HAD A BOONThe whole point here is that some things are locked away without good reason and magically open up again when we get a boon, not before.
>>1940704WE COULD'VE DONE IT BEFORE THE BOON, WE JUST MIGHT'VE LOST OUR REPLICATOR.ALSO NOT AN ISSUE BECAUSE WE COULD'VE THEORETICALLY STOLEN REPLICATORS FROM ELIJAH.
>>1940704Actually, the use of boons early on (iirc) was more balanced, where they gave successes but werent necessary for success itself. Meaning that if you wanted to, you could do things but a boon gave you an automatic pass, as opposed to "Boon or gtfo".I may be mistaken on whether we could replicate the machines without the boon but the nuclear boon was requiered for replicator advancement in that field. So the point remains the same.
>>1940712I said this before and I'll say it again. Please fuck off. Fuck off and never come back. Your presence literally ruins this quest for everyone, especially OP. You autistic stupid fucking shit.
>ZAX RESEARCH>- Large teleporter and tiny teleporter to power distant locations alongside it (maybe transformer tech, maybe a wire shunted through the tiny portal, transformer should be cheaper since we can use a micrometer portal for that)Teleporter transfer of energy. The idea could lead to a huge shift in the way everything is powered. Everything now connected to the grid, no more need to return home to recharging stations or for expensive fissile batteries. The idea is a practical one, though whether it is an economic one is put to the test.The Alien and Dr. Mobius variant of teleportation, which opens up holes in the fabric of spacetime rather than deconstructing matter and rebuilding it elsewhere, or any version of teleportation for that matter is inherently very energy taxing. Typically your current teleportation systems rely on brief instances and quick returns.You have, though, already successfully impleneted a vairant of a continuous tiny teleportation system via the lobotomite artificial brain stem that you now so employ in your head. It is sufficient enoguh to keep itself running, and in the event of failure the backup tesla coil artificial system will activate. After much testing (and a lot of prisoner brains squeezed through a hole the size of a quarter) the system is safe enough that you felt you could put it in your head and indeed you could spend an action to surgically modify everyone else to have it. Now the trick is to scale it up to allow enough power to flow through to keep a robot running, or better still, power up an actual teleporter!As it turns out, for portals larger than the one in your head it starts to become exponentially more power consumptive to keep them continuously open. However an upshot of this is that even for brief instances, vast amounts of power from sturdy enough transmission systems can be used to power up alien energy cells in a breeze. Thus one fantastic technology, aids another. This variant increases the power consumption of any device it uses by a roughly but acceptable 50%, in comparison to the, rather extreme, power needed for the continuous system.In effect, you achieve a variant of exactly what you need. You can now recharge portal systems through the portal itself!>You have unlocked Teleportation Based Recharge Technology and can now upgrade devices to run off this
>>1941827But do we now have bigger teleport pads that can transport something bigger than a Humanoid like Securitrons?
>>1941852Yeah, this. As useful as these teleportation recharge systems will be (no need for a large reactor or fissile battery in the Montana colonisation robots, just have it construct while receiving power beamed in from elsewhere such as previous outposts it's set up) it wasn't the main goal of this turn.
>>1941827well large teleporter was more of the priority, so hw does that fare?
>>1922727>BIOLOGICAL RESEARCH>- better Shi plants so they grow easier and dont explode randomly, plant them in the Divide.Even for Diana, this is a tall order. These plants are particularly finnicky, especially the fruit. However, if anyone is up to the task, its her.Getting rid of the explosive capacity of the fruit is difficult, and not 100% feasible. However, she studies the plant itself how it is able to not be destroyed by the destruction of its own fruit and prevents chain reactions from spreading throughout the whole vine. She develops a biosynthetic substance which mimics certain natural plant hormones that reduce the likelyhood of an explosion and make the fruit temporarily stable. By manufacturing this substance in quantity, it is now much safer to handle and harvest these fruits.Making them grow easier was more simple. She notes the presence of existing artificial biogenetic tampering with the plants code to allow it to grow in more harsher conditions, and a refinement of this with her far superior technology further helps this.In addition, she also creates a brand new variety of vine to aid in its own growth, such as a bioluminescence to convert radiation into light to help in the low lighting conditions of the Divide, and superior healing factor to help deal with the intermittent abrasion of dust and wind via radiation."Good work Diana. You've made me very happy.""Thank you Courier. I'm. . .glad I made you happy" she smiles at herself, glad to be of service to you. Glad to be feeling emotions and sensations like she is now. She seems to be legitimately glad that she can feel the touch of things again and this has boosted her mood tremendously. The vaguest feeling of annoyance followed by brushing them off, all that remains of any previous resistance or anger at her predicament. "Maybe we can spend more time together." she says.
>>1941914>>1941852As portals increase in size, the amount of energy required to operate them as well as stabilize the amount of equipment required to stabilize the field increase exponentially, rather than geometrically.A design for a portal big enough to fit a car is made. This one will not be able to be moved mobile on a truck like the human sized one and will require a large and elaborate building complex as well as a significant source of energy. As it stands it can indeed be charged up also by the teleportation transmission of power. With the cold fusion generators of the Divide you may be able to squeeze it into your grid, but the large fusion reactor will definitely allow for it too.
I'd like to mention how fucking wonderful the Dr. Mobious teleporter variant is, it let's anything with a Transportalponder to teleport anywhere within range of the satellite-thingamajib, we can literally teleport robots right in the middle of anyone trying to invade.>>1941983>A design for a portal big enough to fit a car is made. This one will not be able to be moved mobile on a truck like the human sized one and will require a large and elaborate building complex.Drat, i was planning a tactic where we use a vehicle to teleport more vehicles or at least Securitrons on top of an enemy.At least we have bigger teleporters.
>>1941992I see this as another reason to invest in smaller numbers of elite soldiers. With these larger teleporters we can just keep a few tanktrons/whatever in our capital and then teleport them out to any facility with another teleporter whenever it comes under attack. We'd want to do this with as-combat-effective-as-possible units rather than swarms due to power requirements for activating the teleporters multiple times and any cooldowns that might also come into play.
>>1942215I agree despite me wanting swarms.
>>1942215>>1942239This is made even more so true by the fact that we lack the ability to produce and control a true swarm at least for now.
>>1942320>This is made even more so true by the fact that we lack the ability to produce and control a true swarm at least for now.Don't we have the ability to produce those communications robots now? That would solve the control problem.Production of swarms will be easy if we can dedicate a construction action to it, which is why i recommend becoming a proper nation as fast as possible.
>>1942328>Don't we have the ability to produce those communications robots now? That would solve the control problem.We've always had such a capability.The problem has always been that coordinating a true swarm requires either that every unit knows it's purpose in the grand scheme perfectly (impossible in any scale above base defence and such things), has a uplink with Big mt from which it may receive orders or that it is connected into a network with something that does. This is before mentioning the problem with processing all the data that they generate in the field regarding targeting, location and so on meaning that each platform's "performance" is limited not only by their weapons but by their ability to process the needed information.Thus there were, and continues to be, two solutions. Localised command platforms (like the TACT platform) that process data enhancing and direct actual combat robots. Either actual commanders (like our current brain TACT or an AI equivalent) or subservient to such an individual (like our artillery TACTs) resulting in chains of command like in an actual "human" army where units of higher rank are generally more removed from combat and more protected, making grander scale decisions where as those of lower ranks are combat officers directly in control of combatants and at risk of being damaged.The alternate solution, the one you are advising, is to rely on local relays to connect our robots in the field to some central command and control facility. This risks things like EMPs, combat or other such things eliminating the connection to their commanders and such. However this is mitigated with portals but the next problem arises from the fact that we wouldn't want these vehicles anywhere near the frontlines to prevent our enemies finding our technological secret. They would therefore need to be held back and command, like in the former method, through a chain of command to combat-control relays which wouldn't have the technology or it's associated resistances.
>>1942397>The problem has always been that coordinating a true swarm requires either that every unit knows it's purpose in the grand scheme perfectly (impossible in any scale above base defence and such things), has a uplink with Big mt from which it may receive orders or that it is connected into a network with something that does. This is before mentioning the problem with processing all the data that they generate in the field regarding targeting, location and so on meaning that each platform's "performance" is limited not only by their weapons but by their ability to process the needed information.Didn't we just upgrade robot intelligence? They should be good enough now for a swarm comparable to the B1 battle droid swarms in star wars.>However this is mitigated with portals but the next problem arises from the fact that we wouldn't want these vehicles anywhere near the frontlines to prevent our enemies finding our technological secret.Why would it be in a Vehicle? Why not a Securitron robot?I can understand the fear of our enemies finding our Digital radio tech however.
>>1942461>Didn't we just upgrade robot intelligence? They should be good enough now for a swarm comparable to the B1 battle droid swarms in star wars.Perhaps but that is a significant investment into each unit and still doesn't enable tactical or strategic thought in almost all units.>Why would it be in a Vehicle? Why not a Securitron robot?It is 4 in the morning here. My perception of everything is a little off so forgive a few mistakes.>I can understand the fear of our enemies finding our Digital radio tech however.No, not the digital radio. The teleportation system.
>>1942397Local command units would probably be best for when we start going into places out of signal coverage, like tunnels and such. Though getting some satellites up would greatly expand coverage.
>robo-RESEARCH>That sweet BoS behemoth, build a mobile replicator off of it.Success!You upgrade the Behemoth with a replicator and assembly of enough size to produce, if given time, a whole squad of securitrons. It uses a dis-integrator style replicator to convert either fissile, metal, or even rock but in an emergency can produce from pure energy at a steeper cost. This gives the behemoths a level of infantry support now.>Construction 1Fusion generator as big as we can>Construction 2Double down on fusionThe hole in BigMT is pretty damn deep now, its size and scale inspiring awe in your populace, and parts of the cavern system beneath BigMT have also been used to expand the space. There's also a huge mountain of leftover dirt and debris outside of BigMT. It's been dubbed "The Pile". No one is sure what to do with it.The digging phase is just about ended and now pouring of the foundation can begin.
>>1942515Send the pile through the Behemoth as a test run
>>1942488>Perhaps but that is a significant investment into each unit and still doesn't enable tactical or strategic thought in almost all units.Isn't the intelligence upgrade passive? Also the swarms, at least my idea of swarms, don't need strategic thought, they'll be controlled/ordered by a TACT or central command and use their own computing power to for tactical maneuvers.>No, not the digital radio. The teleportation system.Oh yea that, that definitely can't be found by our enemies.Does that mean you don't care if Digital radio tech falls into the hands of our enemies? Cause if you don't then we can have our swarms use radios for communications with TACTS/central command.
>>1942493I originally proposed the TACT platform and I find it to be an ideal method of providing tactical control and coordination of our forces (literally the meaning of the abbreviation) but we've got to always consider if there are better methods to do things by. I feel that portals are for civil and secure purposes if nothing else, to prevent their capture but we can always risk it if the benefits of it are great enough we must consider it.Still, you are right. Local command is needed in place where signals can't reach but with portals we should be able to do so anywhere.>>1942515>Success!Good now we just need to produce a few of them and send all but one of them to Montana and one to Utah.>It's been dubbed "The Pile". No one is sure what to do with it.What a lovely pile of feed-stock for our non-fissile replicators.
>>1942515>You upgrade the Behemoth with a replicator and assembly of enough size to produce, if given time, a whole squad of securitrons. It uses a dis-integrator style replicator to convert either fissile, metal, or even rock but in an emergency can produce from pure energy at a steeper cost. This gives the behemoths a level of infantry support now.Can they also build Loader bots and construction materials so it can start building bases Command & Conquer style?
>>1942535Well we could set up the swarms so they self-scuttle when disabled, like discharge their powercells or something. would destroy all the technological secrets we put in them.
>>1942542We can essentially play C&C 4 with it. Walk around, pick up material, and spit out some tanks.Though now we have the problem of it being in New Washington, and teleporting it anywhere is not an option. We either let it hang around, or we start pushing with it in some direction.
>>1942537>What a lovely pile of feed-stock for our non-fissile replicators.I share that sentiment but we'll need our Universal-disintegrator first, see >>1940439>As it stands you can't even replicate stuff from scratch in the first place without your disintegrator replicator being operational.
>>1942535>Isn't the intelligence upgrade passive? Somewhat, it did enhance the baseline without cost but we can improve it further per unit with some investment in terms of actual enhancements to the robot rather than further research.>Also the swarms, at least my idea of swarms, don't need strategic thought, they'll be controlled/ordered by a TACT or central command and use their own computing power to for tactical maneuvers.Eh, that might be possible but what you are talking about there would be a cloud-computing based artificial intelligence spread across the entire swarm. Something we have almost no knowledge of in Fallout or in quest. Except in the form of the MK 6 combat AI which managed to sustain high level tactical thought without any sorts of specialised platform. Only problem is it wants us dead...along with literally everything else.Also what you are suggesting works under either system of control.>>1942542This is a very important question.>>1942543Risky if someone works out a way to stop those measures from activating.>>1942547True but we can transport it through the MLA or with our scoutship.>>1942548I know.
>>1940577That was ages ago anon btw.Boons are mostly used to achieve rapid breakthroughs beyond what you are capable of with regular research.By now your technology has advanced dramatically that a lot of previous things locked are no longer exactly locked. You can indeed make nuclear weapons actually. But it is expensive.
>>1942562I'm not sure whether I mentioned it before but achieving new technologies causes a passive increase in your technological ability.The boon system wasn't meant to be a "you absolutely need this" in so much as "this lets you get it even though right now its pretty damn infeasible"
>>1942562See OP, these are the sorts of things it'd be nice of you to inform us of. Like when you didn't mention our exo-armour (and robots) having tesla coils.
>>1942562great. Nice to have that confirmed.>>1942555True but we can transport it through the MLA or with our scoutship.no land border with the MLA, and I think It's a bit big for a scout ship. WE could always build a freight ship like was planned, which would be useful in the long run.
>>1942566Well that is also good to know but it could've been better explained back when we first got introduced to it. Still, thanks OP for clearing things up.>>1942573Actually we do have a land border. The MLA tunnels in the Divide should connect to their actual lands.You do have a point about it possibly being a bit big but it's worth a shot. Plus we could always deliver it in sections.
>>1942567I would like to but then I'd have to spend a lot of time thinking about all the hundreds, maybe thousands of things a whole team of geniuses, trained experts, super computers and the Courier would do passively to inch out some more oomph from their technological designs.
>>1942573>WE could always build a freight ship like was planned, which would be useful in the long run.I am definitely in favor of building the Airship sometimes soon, not only is it useful for transportation it's also something like a super-unit like the NCR 7th tank division, by arming it with air units like Eyebots and Vertybirds it'll dominate the skies.
>>1942584True but it'd be nice if you just gave us a general sort of idea of our passive tech level or something.
>>1942584QM can you please answer >>1942542
>>1942588I try.You guys are definitively more technologically advanced regarding (your specific brand of) robotics and replication than the Old World at least. Not to mention literal Alien Technology.>>1942542Given time yes.COLONIZATION HO!
>>1942581Would the behemoth fit in the tunnels though?
>>1942584>>1942588Yeah, I think a tech level indicator would be good, beyond us being the best in the area such that we get free actions.>>1942542>>1942592We already made a design that could do that, ->>1942607Well that's good.
>>1942607>Given time yes.>COLONIZATION HO!OHHHH This is a good feeling i'm currently experiencing.
>>1942609Its hard for me to figure out how to do that in a meaningful way besides something arbitrary and unsatisfying like "Your tech level is 12" or "You have advanced from Super Tech to Really Super Tech".Its easier to work with specific comparisons and examples, as well as the free actions.
if we get shields we can use the portal recharge tech to tank anything that doesnt immediately drain our entire battery capacity. not of course on a lot of units, but the Courier might find that immensely useful. its probably how a certain alien is so fucking durable.the shi nuke plants can be cross bred with species that spread root systems over thousands of square miles to collect massive amounts of fissile material.portal recharge tech would allow us to skip vertibirds and produce armed scout ship knockoffs
>>1942609>We already made a design that could do that, -We did? Can you post it?
>>1942624>if we get shields we can use the portal recharge tech to tank anything that doesnt immediately drain our entire battery capacity. not of course on a lot of units, but the Courier might find that immensely useful.We can upgrade the Shield-sentry robot with that! Turn it into thishttp://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Centurion
>>1942586We can do that when we've got either the long range plasma researched or gotten the NCR laser tank.Either it'll have a plasma based "yamato cannon" or a giant death beam with which to scorch anything it faces. Or we equip it with a dematerialiser and turn our enemies into raw materials to build more combat robots...>>1942608They fit trucks so quite possibly.>>1942623Well it would be nice if you generally just highlighted to us when we became "better" at something to a noteworthy degree.>>1942634Or we make the Bastion bots even more overpowered.
>>1942640>We can do that when we've got either the long range plasma researched or gotten the NCR laser tank.Why until then? I can definitely understand wanting to give the airship a "Fuck-you" cannon but i also see it's air-carrier function being extremely useful.
>>1942640>We can do that when we've got either the long range plasma researched or gotten the NCR laser tank.We should use next zax action to look at all the weapons we got from the military base. Might be something better than laser. Like the plasma cannons. and emp missles.>They fit trucks so quite possibly.Thing is probably a couple times bigger than a truck, so not guaranteed.>Or we make the Bastion bots even more overpowered.Beta- bastions with the forward shields? yes please.
>>1942640>Or we make the Bastion bots even more overpowered.YES! I love this idea! Make it more like a droideka or Beta bastion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA412mg93aI
>>1942607>>1942623But did we discover Writing?>>1942625I don't remember the post or the specific design, but it was a large constructor design like a SCV or harvester that could produce other constructors or buildings. It was pretty much the builder unit from the Command & Conquer games. It was supposed to be used for colonization, but we never got around to producing them in large numbers.If I recall it was around thread 20-25 that we got around to it.>>1940704>>1940711>>1940712>>1941543Chill anon. As the others said, your behavior was getting toxic. It was also liable liable to simply make the QM write in a more vague and potentially cop-out manner to avoid those issues.>>1942562The QM explained it poorly and it took us until now to get the full details, but boons aren't necessary to advance.As the other anons said though, something like this would be more helpful next time. For example when it says a research says it requires a boon, you could clarify it either requires a multi-turn action like construction actions, or a detailed plan which essentially gives a boon for its thoroughness. With more specific or better plans giving other bonuses or reducing times.
>>1942646True but to be honest I'd point out that such a craft is only useful on the offensive however you do have a point.I primarily see them being used as commercial, industrial, exploratory and transportation crafts. Modular so that they can change between any role as needed and thus shift from a war footing to peaceful interests.>>1942647>We should use next zax action to look at all the weapons we got from the military base. Might be something better than laser. Like the plasma cannons. and emp missles.We really should. The efficient EMP systems, pop-up missile turrets and other such things are incredibly impressive but we'll have to see.>Thing is probably a couple times bigger than a truck, so not guaranteed.True but we can move it through in parts if it comes down to it.Also this all ignores the fact we might be able to move it through the Legion depending on how close they are to the MLA.>Beta- bastions with the forward shields? yes please.At least at first, if we can support shields all around that'd be ideal.This is before mentioning having them all "share" shields and form some sort of barrier / phalanx.>>1942654Essentially.
>>1942667>I don't remember the post or the specific design, but it was a large constructor design like a SCV or harvester that could produce other constructors or buildings. It was pretty much the builder unit from the Command & Conquer games.That's the omni-constructor.
>>1942671Yeah, that is what he is describing...that can't do what he is suggesting, can it?
>>1942670>True but to be honest I'd point out that such a craft is only useful on the offensive however you do have a point.I don't think so, it would also be useful on the defensive by providing air support.
>>1942677It can and it can even make robots if i recall correctly but only scrap versions, it's why i came up with the mobile replicator idea cause i noticed if it could make/refine robot parts it would basically be a C&C MCV that's capable of making units.Then anons decided to give the replicator to the Behemoth instead and i kinda forgot that it would have been better to give it to the Omni-constructor and just let it happen.
>>1942678True but for the same amount of resources (if not less) we could have set up a airbase. So it's utility is primarily to reinforce existing defences or to act outside of our lands.It might be useful in the north but we can't get it there realistically so for now, they don't seem to useful to me compared to, say, expanding our robotics factory or such other actions.
>>1942677It can, or at least there's a design that can.>>1942698Oh yeah, that's the name of the design. Either a mobile replicator that did that, or attaching it to the omni-constructor.So I guess we just made the Fatboy from Supreme Commander instead?
>>1942707>So I guess we just made the Fatboy from Supreme Commander instead?Except with no artillery cannons so barely as strong.
>>1942714>>1942397What if we attached an artillery TACT so it could do that?Does the Behemoth already function as a TACT? I have to catch up with a few threads.
So...I guess we should probably get OP to weigh in on this and see if we've just wasted an action or not...
>>1942735We just got the Behemoth so you can simply look at it's wiki page for what it has.http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Behemoth_(robot)
>>1942743Actually the Behemoth replicator might be useful, it has very strong armor and powerful guns, i would equate it to this thing.http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Mobile_war_factorySo next turn we could completely upgrade both the Omni-contructor and the Behemoth into their C&C counterparts.
want to point out that shielding lots of units is likely to burn out even the best generator system.especially since A) a large enough damage will overcome the shield likely.B) we are using a large portion of generator output for portal creation
>>1942745Smaller than I thought. But we can work with that, or design something bigger.The current model should still have its guns so it's not totally defenseless.>>1942743What do you mean? which action?
>>1942761Well I've got a question or two for you.Do you think that the Behemoth could support the capability of the Omni-constructor to build? Or should we merely give it the ability to control some construction drones to do that which it can replicate more of? Or should we have teams of robots as a part of our colonisation effort?>>1942772The research action that we just used to develop this.
>>1942772>What do you mean? which action?This action>robo-RESEARCH>That sweet BoS behemoth, build a mobile replicator off of it.
>>1942776>Do you think that the Behemoth could support the capability of the Omni-constructor to build? Or should we merely give it the ability to control some construction drones to do that which it can replicate more of? Or should we have teams of robots as a part of our colonisation effort?I dunno, i'm leaning in the "Make the Omni-constructor a MCV and the Behemoth a MWF"A MCV and MWF together will be very useful for establishing Military bases and colonies relatively quickly.
>>1942789I get what you mean but part of me sees no reason to have these two models remain separate like you are suggesting.Still, this is all something to consider and debate.
>>1942779Probably not then. If your concerned about overlap between the omni0constructor and the new behemoth, they have different roles. The omni-constructors work large scale. Won't be assembling securitrons any time soon.
>CIV- Integrate new slaves and allot them jobs/trades based on what they are good at/find interestingWith help from the free'd legion slaves, the new populace slowly but surely are being educated and put toward the workforce. They have much to learn and , but it helps that living conditions at BigMT are so good, with available food, housing, and much creature comforts that they are becoming hard workers. >- Establish credit system and a bank within Alexa, promote private businesses that use the new workforce for productive goals (robot R&D shop, tailor, TV studio and so on, no farming or other low-tier nonsense)By now, the Pioneers of Post Scracity have come to the conclusion that a completely currency free economy is beyond the reach of even us.But they are satisfied with the condition that, rather than fiat currency, energy credits and sierra Madre chips are used. Rather than representing the power to purchase goods and services, they ARE the power to produce goods and services. Literally. A resource currency that is directly used up.While you are busy with hero affairs, you delegate the development of an electronic banking system and the promotion of businesses to your loyal crew. By now, Hubology is the majority faith among your intellectual elite and even those who are not Hubologists respect them and their Architect Society of America. Through their influence, the design a new coinage for the old Sierra Madre Chips.On the front of the coin is a blazing phoenix, designed in the style of the Eagle of old world symbols. The back of the new coin is also very similar to an Old World Money symbol used by the Commonwealth, in fact its almost an exact replica. The all seeing eye over the pyramid seems to have been an influenced choice by the ASA.The official names proposed are "Energy Credits" "Phoenix Chips" and "PC Dollars". Meanwhile the new electronic bank has a surprising effect. With everyone being able to afford basic living standards, there is a growing demand for more luxury goods and services and this promotes people to work more luxury service jobs. Meanwhile, with many people making an excess amount of money than what they need, particularly those of the intellectual class, they donate to the ASA or as members of the Church of Hubology as a tithe to advance in rank. In return, the Hubology and ASA organize the passive construction and investment of different shops, services, and other things too small that the government is too busy on state level projects to handle. The energy credits are almost becoming something of a vote system, with people donating extra credits toward a specific cause or project they want to see done by the ASA.
>>1942905>By now, Hubology is the majority faith among your intellectual elite and even those who are not Hubologists respect them and their Architect Society of America. Through their influence, the design a new coinage for the old Sierra Madre Chips.>Meanwhile, with many people making an excess amount of money than what they need, particularly those of the intellectual class, they donate to the ASA or as members of the Church of Hubology as a tithe to advance in rank. In return, the Hubology and ASA organize the passive construction and investment of different shops, services, and other things too small that the government is too busy on state level projects to handle. The energy credits are almost becoming something of a vote system, with people donating extra credits toward a specific cause or project they want to see done by the ASA.>Meanwhile, with many people making an excess amount of money than what they need, particularly those of the intellectual class, they donate to the ASA or as members of the Church of Hubology as a tithe to advance in rank. Welp, too late. Hubology is now post-apocalyptic, Illuminati Catholicism. When do they start selling books?
>>1942927Don't forget Christianity has been growing among our people too.PA Crusaders when?
>>1942927>When do they start selling books?Scientific Spirituality is a best seller in your nation, next to your own book. Though the Bible and the Book of Mormon is also becoming popular among smaller groups.
>>1942927>>1942931Huge mistake w/ this religion shit. Just more complications in the future desu.
>>1942927>>1942931Ah yes, I can see it now.Hubology the post-apocalyptic, Illuminati-Scientology Catholic arm for intellectuals. A post-apocalyptic variant of Mormonism and Christianity for soldiers and common folk, especially for crusaders.>PA Crusaders when?We should totally get those mob fanatics that were roused by Monroe back at the Battle for Cottonwood Cove and start up the crusading arm.>>1942937I've gotta ask, what Dick Hubbell write before he wrote Scientific Spirituality? Post-apocalyptic space or western operas?>>1942943We should check to see if one of them aren't going to pull a Littlefinger/Oddball on us. Then again, the Hubologists have a life debt to us, and the Mormons are a protectorate of us.
>>1942948Alien fiction actually.He had an association with another popular writer of the time who did Eldritch Lore, but they soon parted on supposedly bad terms.
>>1942667I apologize if I disturb some anons here and I accept that my rocket/satellite rant was not as constructive as it should have been. However I dont think that I have been wrong on the nuclear points I have made in the last few threads. My main probem being internal consistency and predictability. This is mainly illustrated by the beryllium agitator posts above.As to QM writing more ambiguously, I have also given a few examples of how he can incorporate anons into the game more (providing a basic idea and if any anon has a good understanding of the topic he can give extra input for a better outcome eg. +5 on the roll). I dont want QM to make up shit to steer our progress (agitator goes here) but I understand that he cant give us everything for free (ZAX goes here) and I accept that. My gripe is just that, not that we have obstacles but how they are presented. I very much liked the quest to get a ZAX and how it eventually turned out but I very much dislike the beryllium-is-special flavour of obstacle (as opposed to you cant do it, you dont now how to build it).I will try to be more civil going forward and I hope this has shown in recent threads.>>1941543Eat a bag of dicks please. If it was just my gripe I would be alone in this. I am not.
>>1943060Piss off cunt.
>>1942977As to you, QM, the reason I am still a thorn in your side after 22 threads is the fact that I like Fallout and I like strategy games and this combined means I really like your quest. As I am sure you have noticed I lurk here far more often than I probably should. I like what you are doing and I hope this comes across. The reason I am bitching is to, hopefully, provide constructive criticism and a way to better, or otherwise think through/flesh out the game.
>>1943064Yeah, love you too.
>>1943060>>1943068You really need to fuck off.
>>1943060In general, alot of anons have the opinion that you are either arguing for the sake of doing so, or that you are trying to slow down the quest. I'm not going to tell you to fuck off like the other anons, but when you consistently argue with the QM and cause thread hold ups its very disheartening.
>>1943096That I can agree to. Will try to limit myself to short and concise points.
>>1942977>- Make sure the NCR soldier's memories of their kidnapping is replaced by ones of a gas leak/explosion/other mundane accidentThis was actually very tedious, and difficult.You had to personally adjust the stories and perspectives of each of the 30 persons, in a manner that is at least somewhat consistent if ever cross referenced by each other asking what happened. The original idea of there being an accident poses the difficulty of there not actually having been an accident. Even a single line of conversation with someone from the outside could crack the illusion when they would learn they were gone for much more than a week. Days don't just suddenly dissapear from memory.Then there is the issue of what to do after you wake them up. They are expecting to be returned to the NCR, after all you do have a peace treaty. Any delay could give these soldiers the impression of not so very nice intentions to the NCR.Although, to be honest, you're incredibly thick about it. In between your Radio Show, what Oddball and his lackeys would have said, anyone with a brain in the NCR who knows of you should know you probably don't have good intentions for the NCR. But actually imprisoning their soldiers seems less like buying them to free them, and more like actually buying them.>con't
>>1943182How long have we had them in and what do our brainiacs think we could get for them from the NCR (a meeting with their ZAX/science staff; some tech; favourable trade/land deals)?
>>1943212The entire process took roughly 15 days, you working almost around the clock to personally oversee 3 persons a day and occasionally going back to get further information.In regards to what you say? The NCR would probably give jack shit of their most juicy stuff ("would WE ever do the same for them?"). Of course, you can only ask your ZAX and your Brain really, while you also have to come up with a convincing lie to tell your followers as well.Well, not all you were able to employ certain people you can trust to keep a shut lip about this sort of thing. Doctor Bradley, Doctor Rufus, Moreno mostly.
>>1943212From their history, the NCR would probably pay in resources. Likely as a thank you gift rather than an explicit trade, otherwise it might seem like you are offering them hostages.They may also want to keep such details less publicly known. It stands to reason they aren't buying their soldiers back as slaves from the MLA, and using you as a middleman does not satiate an ideological quandary either.
>>1943229I mean, could we get an audience with their ZAX, for example? Or talk to their science staff about "cooperative projects" or somesuch? The idea being that we gather intel from them and learn about their structure so when we attack we know who is what and where (maybe even plant a trojan in the ZAX?).
>>1943233>and using you as a middleman does not satiate an ideological quandary either.What if we had another proxy buy it, then buy it from them, to give it to NCR who gives a gift so it doesn't seem like they bought it?>>1943240I'm wondering, what is the final side we side with before we betray them all?
>>1943233Our people need not know and we dont have to publicise it. Would be even better if we keep it on the down low and get a better thing from the NCR.Resources are moot, preferrably we could sell it as "You have a ZAX??? Oh my, we dont, I would very much like to talk to it plz!" Or other nonsense so we could get close to at least a connected terminal.On that topic, how good is our cyberwarfare capability? What would enhance it?
>>1943240ZAX(CEO): "The easiest way to answer that sort of question is, 'would I allow the NCR to do the same to me?'"
>>1943242None, we just play them. Although, adimttedly, when we start eating the NCR we wil have to divert the Legion onto the BoS so it will not be easy.
>>1943250Fair point. Is ANY science staff meeting likely? Even just low-level institutes on geology etc. so we can get a foothold in their community? Entice people to move over etc. Basically think of some imaginary problem we need help from one of their foundations from and use that as a foot in the door to start converting/infiltrating.
Quick question, did we erase/replace the NCR soldier's memory of us buying them?
>>1942905This all sounds excellent!Finally we have a working private sector.We will need to pass anti-trust / monopoly laws though, to prevent too many businesses being concentrated under the ASA. >>1942927Nothing wrong with a dominant religion anon. Most counties in the real world use religion to tie the populace together. We probably need to work to create a version of Christianity that incorporates the Hub faith.
>>1943247>On that topic, how good is our cyberwarfare capabilityZAX(RND): "Before the Great War, several prominent computer theorists predicted that wireless electronic warfare, hacking over radio signals, would change the face of electronic security.The great corporations of the world collectively quaked their pants at such an idea. So they specifically designed all their computer systems and programming to prevent that sort of thing being possible. All of them really, even that House guy.The only truly effective way to hack a computer is to physically secure its mainframe. Otherwise, its a crapshoot based on if your ability to decode their encrypted transmissions is faster than their ability to shift their codes, the amount and size of the data being transferred also factors in with higher level communications being more difficult to both encrypt and decode, thus the advantage is given to the bigger computer. And we're only one ZAX going up against the computational prowess of possibly more than one. Not good odds if you ask me.If we were to get a part of their encryption protocols, actually get into even one of their mainframes, that's a different story."
>>1943265"I'd make a projection of what a simulated event would be like if several ZAX's were physically plugged into another one by wire and they were to try to assault it. It's not pretty. Er, well, I don't think you'd be able to comprehend how it looks like from our perspective."
>>1943265>>1943274Wouldn't that look like a botnet attack?
>>1943274QM please answer >>1943256
>>1943256Well, if you did, what would you replace it with?The Courier is currently thinking on exactly how to make the most compelling story while not also compromising some key facts.In the first place, now everyone in BigMT knows you bought slaves from the MLA. Your own populace is a liability to leak info to the NCR, luckily mitigated by your own isolation.Your more conscientious followers like Arcade who have qualms with dealings with the MLA, are mostly satiated by the fact that you at least bought them to free them.
>>1943291I see, this might be troublesome.Does everyone know what exactly we gave to the MLA in the trade?
>>1943299nope. that you kept private
>>1943303What does everybody know about our subterranian vehicles then? Do our NCR guests know about them?
>>1943291Honestly, it'll just be easier to either keep these guys as scientific prisoners forever, or just kill them now.Creating this new narrative is too risky.Also, by giving them back to the NCR, we are providing info to the NCR on the MLA's hidden bases.
>>1943314>Also, by giving them back to the NCR, we are providing info to the NCR on the MLA's hidden bases.We do?
>>1943317Of course. The NCR will debrief the soldiers and find out everything then know.We'd not editing that much memory after all.
>>1943265If the issue is encryption shifting and raw processing power I have a solution:Since encrypting and decrypting need to happen on both ends of a signal we really only need to take control of one node. This could be a comm terminal at an outpost. Since directly attacking the ZAX ends with it shifting its own internal data encryption (and thus we lose based on inferior hardware) we focus on the communication of ZAX to outlying terminal (which does not have enough processing power to keep up with ZAX shenanigans). This relies on the ZAX not knowing what we are up to so it wont block the incoming signal from outside. Essentially, we use a non-sentient terminal and its low decryption protection to access the ZAX network and introduce a virus before it realizes what is going on. This could be a worm that lies dormant on the access node for weeks before transmitting itself in a random communication (like the USB hopping Stuxnet). This means we only have to hack an outlying terminal, place the worm and gtfo before we draw too much attention. After this the implanted worm would ride a random communication back to HQ and do its thing there. Essentially, we need a sophisticated enough virus/worm/whatever and an outlying terminal connected to the network (like the terminal in a science lab).Thoughts?
>>1943353Then we'll have to hold them prisoners, at least we can justify it by claiming we don't want to be the subject of intervention like Afghanistan.
I wanted to suggest the prisoners to stay for several months as citizens and then make their own choice but then they'd learn that they were missing for several weeks from our population. I guess we just give them to NCR as a measure of goodwill
>>1943437Well we could just claim that their recovery took much longer than our own because they lack our augmentations and shit. It's not a lie either, if they did experience such an attack chances are we'd recover far quicker.
so I have an idea, but I dont think you guyz will want to go for it.petiton to join the NCR as the State of Pheonix. tell them we know where the red cloud is coming from, and solicit their assistance in invading Sierra Madre.while thats going on have the montana base built up as a energy and industrial powerhouse. And use it to house those members of our society the NCR would want purged.Kill Yaunkers, Kill Oddball, fracture the NCR and grab as much as we can predominantly southern old cali.
Yo qm, would giving the think tank bodies take up a whole civ action, or could it be spilt with other stuff?
>>1943060No really, nobody likes you. Please go.
>>1943683It'd take an action.----Courier mulled over a foolproof way to actually make the memory thing work. In the end it he had several options.CHOOSE:#1 Place them all in cryofreeze. It was a "necessary security measure" until you could be sure the MLA didn't leave any malingering effects, as well as to notify the NCR as soon as possible.The NCR may be irked that you did this without notifying them for almost a month. But at least there's plausible deniability#2 Go with the original idea. Some sort of leak of a "Knockout gas" as part of a faulty defense mechanism. Have them wake up in comfortable soldierly rooms, under robotic surveillance, and explain the loss of memory as a result of the gas ("an aerosolized form of the benzodiazepine midazolam"). To ensure the safety of your doctors as you were concerned they may be MLA sleeper cells, you treated them only with robots. #3 Dead men tell no tales. Keep them permanently or kill them. Use James Bond to ensure no leaks of information, and queitly dismiss any questions by your followers as to what happenedIf you do wake them up, they want to know if you're going to release them:>Yes>No
Rolled 51 (1d100)>>1943709Realistically, though it's clearly flimsy, I'd say #2.It doesn't actually give them any evidence of our capabilities, and anyone who hears that story is much more likely to think that we used some chemical method to wipe their memories than anything else. The reason we kept them under for so long remains a complete mystery.
>>1943644The issue is that then we side with the NCR while being right on the border with the Legion and having the MLA in our backyard. A good idea but shit for us right now. Maybe when they push them further east.>>1943687You first, mister grumpy.>>1943709Can we make sure they not remember anything about the MLA bases or our interaction with the MLA? Say the gas "has a far-reaching effect" or somesuch.#2 YESNegotiate for a meeting with some science staff with access to their ZAX network for worm implanting and people converting.
>>1943709>2including actually gassing them>yes
>>1943709As much as I'd prefer to make use of their brains in TACTs to grow our military, I know I'd be out voted.#2 and yes.
>>1943751Their brains are in no way more special than others. We can just abduct more legion soldiers if we need it. Or process some of our more useless new slaves. They will be wiped anyway.
>>1943754Stop committing atrocities on our own people.If we tact anyone it should be people our citizens don't care about
>>1943761Why not Volunteer TACTS? All the ones you have right now are Volunteers.
>>1943771Because that puts valuable citizens at risk and limits us to a certain number since we can't have all of our brains doing that since we want them doing research and such.Meanwhile, we can rob our enemies dying bodies of their brains and empty them of all thought before inserting a brand new artificial intelligence designed to lead, obey and fight without question for our mighty state. Making it a mere question of how brains we can steal and how many TACTs we can build.Thus we want a few volunteer TACTs to lead and decide on actual strategic affairs backed by a chain of reprogrammed brain-AI's that are far more expendable while also potentially being more skilled at controlling robots, fighting and other such matters.Still it's just something to consider.
>>1943779Cant really take those of dead on the field unless we specifically use nonlethal weapons to capture them. Easier to abduct random strangers from far-off lands. As to our own people, if a dude wants to commit suicide, is unwilling to work or openly hostile towards us, he will be canned. Doesnt matter if he is "one of our own".
>>1943805>if a dude wants to commit suicideDoes that include some of the recently arrived slaves?
>>1943805>Cant really take those of dead on the field unless we specifically use nonlethal weapons to capture them. Eh, if someone gets knocked unconscious by an explosion or passes out from blood loss then there is a period before their brain becomes unusable. Same goes for anyone that gets crushed by debris, losses some limbs, goes into shock or is paralysed.>Easier to abduct random strangers from far-off lands. Aye but fact is that given time they'll figure out a way to stop us or we'll run down the supply. Still I know what you mean.>As to our own people, if a dude wants to commit suicide, is unwilling to work or openly hostile towards us, he will be canned. Doesnt matter if he is "one of our own".Oh I agree under those circumstances aye.>>1943813Yeah that is one of the problematic things, if they are in a state which one would classify as unstable and unwell, should they be allowed this right? The right to self-terminate? Logically speaking they shouldn't but the problem arises that if you can only kill yourself when mentally well and we consider wanting to commit suicide a sign of being mentally unwell, then no one ever can.
>>1943805Would it not be a decent idea to give them acess to counseling /therapy in the case of suicidal thoughts before we simply can them?
>>1943835Yeah that'd probably be for the best. Just in case the problem is fairly simple to solve.
>>1943813Yes, if they are blatantly not getting better we reuse them.>>1943823The issue with harvesting is that after 5 minutes (mostly) the brain is beyond repair and thus useless. We would thus have to build rapid harvester bots. Doesnt seem that useful to me. Better make long-range harvester bots with diggers so they harvest and store like 50 brains at once and then travel back home to unload. All stealthy and discrete. Could also be a boogeyman for us to defeat so we get extra respect with tribalistic locals.
>>1943835>>1943839Of course, we try to get the most o them but if it is a lost cause...
>>1943851True but that assumes they are in such a state that the brain is being compromised. Whereas what I am suggesting is the harvesting of those who might, without medical attention within a certain period, enter into that state.Also it'd be a fairly simple procedure I'd imagine given how well practised Big mt and we in general are at the removal of brains.
>>1943813NoThey can be treated and rehabilitated
>>1943904Can we try to convince them to stay for several months and live like citizens, then they can decide if they want to keep living here.At least that guy who didn't want to butcher women and children might join up with us.
>>1943921They are not that special. We could probably get more out of them by getting an "in" in the NCR and get to the scientist and ZAX over there. We have 200+ dudes we can utilize. 30 wont make that big of a difference. Especially if they want strongly want to be somewhere else.
>>1943851Big MT clearly has something already like this somewhere. We shut it down when we moved in but the Automated Abduction Systems were accomplishing this for years to produce lobotomites.
>>1943709The negotiations are rather brief actually. You inform the NCR you have acquired their soldiers through sale. They ask if you intend to release them. You say yes, and do so.In the dead of night the trucks arrive to carry the somewhat confused NCR soldiers. No doubt they themselves will be pried of every last bit of information.You wonder if this was ultimately a good idea. Hopefully it is. You'll have to see in the fullness of time.---The NCR do drop off something else. Bottlecaps.Truckloads of Bottlecaps. With a simple message that reads "get more."You've never seen this amount of bottlecaps before, this is more than your wallet. Ten times over. . .that can only mean one thing. Uh oh.
>>1943823What defines "unwilling to work"?Is a year sabbatical unwilling to work?What about becoming a house parent to care for kids for 10 or so years?
>>1944232Well at least we dont have to waste time wiping memories anymore.
>>1944232....Are we being bribed to act as a third party, or am I missing something else here?
>>1944248We are indeed. Damn now this is tempting
>>1944248>>1944257Shit, I think we should really do this. It doesn't hurt us in the least, we get to keep a portion of the caps, and we get people out of slavery. Sounds good to me
>>1944272Yeah its a good deal for us.NCR probably likes it because it gets them ibtel on the MLA
>>1944272I agree completely. We lose nothing and gain friendlier ties with both
>>1944272I mean, I'm down for it. More people to pump for information as well.>inb4 the NCR uses this as some bullshit stretch of lie that we're working for the MLA
>>1944286I mean, that's actually true. Its not really a stretch of a lie.
>>1944232The NCR soldiers are probably going to be sent straight to the front against the zombies. Go figure. Shit is going to go down militarily mighty quick and I don't know if we're going to be ready to fight any of the factions. We need to up our ante. Maybe even stop going on dates as those take too much time.Maybe it's even time to send another expeditionary force (maybe with only robots this time) to REALLY get more info.Get ahold of Niner and ask him wtf is going on to as well.
>>1944296>Stop going on datesLolno. I would like them to just be wrapped up sooner rather then later however. Its a few months/weeks of a fucking date at this rate per-female which is insane/I'd like to get samples of what they are doing as well.
>>1944296We might need to expand our army first, as we did get new population. I know we rely primarily on robots, but Humans still are useful too.
>>1944302Well we're almost done. Just this, and one more if i recall correctly.
>>1944237>What defines "unwilling to work"?Dunno, something to leave to our people perhaps like we did the lobo-prostitution?>Is a year sabbatical unwilling to work?Assuming they can "afford" such a thing (e,g getting time off in return for credits) or something? No problem. Hell another way it would be acceptable is in the case of a psychiatrist or physician requesting it.>What about becoming a house parent to care for kids for 10 or so years?God no. We need the population growth and stable families that such a thing allows.>>1944296Essentially aye. We are, for all our efforts to scout and learn, a near blind man with a very big gun and nowhere near enough ammunition.However, I do feel that we must produce a few of the Behemoth mobile replication robots. Which I would like to rename to either Daedalus or Prometheus to avoid confusion with any other models we produce based off of them. To be deployed into Montana and at least one to Utah to take advantage of the unclaimed region there between the Legion and MLA where we have allies.
>>1944336As long as we institute some sort of self destruct option in case one of these things are ever captured
>>1944336If you want to lobotomize people for being "unwilling to work" you can't leave the term undefined in its specificity.
>>1944342Well our Securitron robots can be made to self-destruct with a fairly potent explosion. Chances are we could adapt the system to work on this model but to be frank it would probably be quicker to just have them move in a group and focus their defensive / offensive / construction capacity into the same tasks at least at first.Once we've gotten a replicator / construction facility that can produce them in the north, they'll be a fair bit more expendable but that could take a fair bit of time depending on how lucky we get.
>>1944350I know. Which is why I'd leave it to our people if we were to actually consider doing it but to be frank it'll be easier to just use the brains of the Legion who throw themselves at us when we fight them or the brains of people dying from incurable diseases / conditions and such.
>>1944352Well the self destruct option should be the first thing we add, because if for some reason one of these things are captured, it's a potent weapon if they can understand how it works.
>>1944350Actively hostile behaviour like refusing to work, sabotage, intelligence leaks and so on. Being lazy is not grounds for scooping your brain out. Being hostile to the state IS.Dont overdramatize this. Think logically.
>>1944363If one is captured we lose. Permanently and quickly. We can not let any advanced tech go (especially teleporters and replicators). To do that is tantamount to suicide.
>>1944272I wish they were clear on how much we can keep for ourselves.Keep in mind that the value of the bottlecap has also fallen in MLA. But not in Northern territories. If we could buy something in Baronlands to be traded in MLA, we'd get more bang for our buck.
>>1944378So striking is now illegal for being "hostile to the state"?The problem with common sense litigation is that nothing is ever "common" sense.
>>1943393>SPI"An interesting idea, I'll need to take a look at it.">>1944232NCR Founding Day happened a few days ago, and you listen in on the radio.>Mr New Vegas"Good morning this is Mr. New Vegas, coming to you live from New Washington.It's just about time, for some news.The NCR's national founding day celebration was marked by a period of silence regarding the recent loss of several divisions in the front after a major counter attack by the combined forces of the MLA and the Legion, who are now reported to be in an 'open alliance'. The NCR president made his founding day speech, calling on NCR citizens to remember the 'indominable will of the Californian people.'-"You switch off Mr. New Vegas to tune into the NCR radio who is playing the speech itself."- need not tell you, sons and daughters of California, that this war is not an easy one. The hardships of this war are known to each and every one of you. From the very ashes of the old world, whose invisible embers still burn in many places, a desolate wasteland our forefathers carved a nation that stands as strong as the very Sierra Mountains themselves. For ten years now you have struggled, fighting against an insidious and ruthless enemy. In previous times, corrupt officials, traitors in our midst would downplay the strength of our foe. 'Mere raiders' they would say. 'no cause for alarm', lying to our faces even as tribal hordes were massing against us. It took the rape of New Vegas and for the foe to march upon our very homes for the illusion to fall. But we did not break as our foe imagined we would. We sowed the very fields with our our sweat, our blood, our bodies to hold back the enemies ties. Even as they stood within sight of our capital city, mouths drooling with savage hunger and eyes leering with barbaric lust, they soon learned the grave err they had done as the very angry will of our people made manifest fell upon them like the very sky falling on them. Our noble forces, armed with the tools granted to them by the people drove them back. The bears sinew of iron and claws of steel forged in the fires of Californian factories trampled the legion host and drove them back to the den they have made of New Vegas.But in victory we will not complacency defeat us. So it is in defeat, we do not allow discouragement to humble us. Whether in the shining sun or frigid winter, in times of bounty or in the long hunger of winter, the Bear remains strong. We strive to establish a rebirth of civilization that will last 1000 years.In this the struggle for our survival and our greatness will not tire, we will not falter, we will not fail! In the numbers fallen is the price we must pay. And we will be resolute! We will fear no sacrifice and surmount every trial to win our just triumph!">con't
>>1944396I mean we could certainly do that, we have the teleporer and shit. Maybe coal coal could be what the MLA wants
>>1944400I wonder what the NCR would give us if we promised to take out the capitals and major cities of the Legion and MLA
>>1944408....How would you even recommend or suggest we pull that off?
>>1944400>Mr New Vegas"In other news, the NCR announces the end of the bottlecap as legal tender in all official government businesses, fullfilling their promise to restore the NCR dollar to prominence by the year 2287. The NCR has unveiled the opening of the first restored Nuka Cola and Sunset Sasparilla Factories. Grocery stores opened yesterday with isles entirely dedicated to the mass produced soft drinks, in capped glass bottles."
>>1944417.... That's not good, They off-loaded it because now they'd have a forever supply of it. The fuckers.Yo QM, how much radation is in the bottle-caps? Can we use it to help our replacators?
>>1944399If it is Antifa level of riots then yes, canned. If it is peaceful then we spray relaxing mind gas and send them on their way.Again, go about this rationally. If everything else fails we personally judge whether its time to spin up the blades.>>1944408No. Hard no. Bad touch.
>>1944415With our vast technological expertise, it wouldn't be hard, the question would lie on what they could do for us
>>1944435How do you suggest we get enough forces through our portals, in a fast enough manner while ready to fight bullshit magic beings and god knows what the Legion has?
>>1944400BWAHAHAHAHAHAAll according to keikaku...But we now need to fight Elijah somehow...perhaps next action we can start researching ways to counter Elijah's horde w/ the help of that chick who saved us from getting our ass handed to us.
>>1944424Hardly any. Its really just steel. I mean, you could use it as steel resource but its actually not that much.
>>1944424Well next time we can demand other tender for reward. I imagine these new factories are going to inflate the Bottle cap by a lot.
>>1944424Well, they still have worth in other regions. We need to offload them as fast as possible. Even just buying metal and fissile in Northern territories and stockpiling them for now.If this news reach them, the value will drop there too.
>>1944445Moving forward, negotiate actual goods/services besides shitty steel.Again, how about the meeting with a science institute? Imagine we are thinking about opening a deep earth mine and need help from their geology department. Or something other specific that a small department can do (and has ZAX access).
>>1944442I'm not talking about some large assualt with actual soldiers, more like a bomb or a gas
>>1944460the MLA and Legion just got mustard gased and gave no fucks. You think they'll give a fuck if we hit there capital? lol
>>1944462With regular gas? No, but if you're implying we aren't advanced enough to think up something with our tech then you're a fool
>>1944505They gave no fuck about their people dieing from the gas. Not like they no-selled mustard gas. More deadly gas won't make them more likely to do anything.
>>1944521I'm not really talking about the loss of life, rather the destruction of infrastructure. While killing the warlords of the MLA will hurt them, it wouldn't destroy them. The legion might be a little different, but the point still stands.Destruction of Infrastructure is the only want to win against large armies
>>1944532Question is, how do WE benefit from this? The NCR loses a key enemy and gains more ground. This increases the popularity of Yaunker. This means we are in a position where he can more easily justify war against us (or annexing) and if we decide to join we are running against the most popular dude ever.We only win if we can bleed all the factions against eachother and remain neutral to them until the end (if the MLA becomes too powerful we assist the NCR covertly and so on).
>>1944546Well like I said in the original post, we would know WHAT we gain before we do it. I would also assume that the NCR populace would know that we did this, increasing their favor of us as not a barbaric tribe, but as an advanced civilization, partially buying us time.All I was suggesting was we poke around and see if it is worth our time.
>>1944556If they pay us to take over the mojave and we get to keep it, I'm all for it. But if it involves turning over any gains to them, they would have to be offering a lot.
>>1944604All I'm suggesting is to just hear their terms. We don't have to agree to anything, but we need to realize that we're on "friendly" terms with them
>>1944627Yeah, fine, lets hear what terms are before doing anything.Nothing like getting paid twice for the same job.
>>1944285It gains us bottlecaps, which are essentially useless - and it helps the NCR in a war they are already winning. If we're doing this, we need to be getting better resources in return.
>>1944670>winningIt's a stalemate now>bottlecaps are worthlessnot in the northern territories and literally anywhere else in the wasteland, besides the main empires
>>1944670Or just not do it at all and focus on building ourselves up.Or have the NCR instead pay in metals that we can turn into MLA weapons to then trade for slaves.
>>1944678>It's a stalemate nowWouldn't we want to keep it a stalemate then? Why help the NCR?
>>1944680Yup, I'll agree with that.>>1944686Exactly. The NCR is the largest short and long term threat to our continued existence.As the war has stalemated (a little bit), we need to expand either locally or into Montana / Utah ASAP.
It occurs to me that the NCR has no idea how much the bottle caps equate to in slaves. So we can spend a portion on getting more of their troops back and another portion on getting other things we might want, like for example, some of the scrap from the NCR laser tanks or such.
>>1944695Exactly. We could get so much good shit like that
>>1944694>>1944686The NCR is also the most morally functional as they don't follow some fucking dark lord or drink mutant blood for strength. They are seemingly a lot more reasonable too
>>1944702That I agree with. NCR is actually only a threat as long as we go against them. If we throw our lot in with them and go full out war with the Legion and MLA, we would be safe from them and not have to worry about being back stabbed.
>>1944702Yeah and? That is all the more reason to destroy them. They are the only competitor to our branch of ideological thought.
>>1944702>The NCR is also the most morally functional as they don't follow some fucking dark lord or drink mutant blood for strength.You have a point, but keep in mind the NCR have those Concentration camps and are possibly selling women to Crypto for alien tech, so they aren't really that morally functional.
>>1944712I thought we settled on them just deconstructing the Federation shuttle for that.And It's not like the NCR is asking us to turn over our undesirables. SO as long as we present ourselves as a sanctuary state we would get a lot of refugee immigration as they come to us for safety.
>>1944706Exactly, Yaunker may be a dictator, but if the people know we are fighting along with them, then why would they ever want to invade us? Our governments are basically the same>>1944709Two ideologies can work together to destroy an even greater threat though, I.E. Italy and Germany>>1944712The tribal killing is a problem, but if that's the worst thing they do, and as I said earlier, don't worship some freaky lord and have MASS slavery, then I know who I want to choose
>>1944719>I thought we settled on them just deconstructing the Federation shuttle for that.I didn't.>>1944720>The tribal killing is a problem, but if that's the worst thing they do, and as I said earlier, don't worship some freaky lord and have MASS slavery, then I know who I want to chooseFair enough, but i ain't helping the NCR like your proposing.
>>1944728What was I proposing? Destroying the capitals? There's always agreement somewhere.
>>1944738>What was I proposing?Just working with the NCR in general.
>>1944728Well no matter, we don't know for sure that they are working with crypto, so we can't exactly decide foreign policy based on that.
>>1944745Having no communication with the NCR is silly, as there are advantages with working with them, as with the MLA and Legion.Saying you don't want to work with the NCR period is silly
>>1944757True but it's good to be cautious.>>1944758I don't care if you think it's silly i don't want to work with the NCR and make them stronger, focus on us not them.
>>1944745Why not? It would be the best for us right now. We don't have to share tech or anything, but coordinating with each other would help us grow much faster than we are now.
>>1944765Because it makes the NCR stronger, which will make it harder for us in the future to expand.Just use the stalemate going on now to turn ourselves into a proper nation then build a robot army to take over whatever we want.
>>1944763You're probably the only one here who doesn't. Even the most conservative of us here see the benefit of working with the NCRI applaud you for sticking with your guns, but you have a VERY unpopular opinion
>>1944720And I consider them all something to destroy in due time. That they are all problems to solve.Anyhow, we've got our plan for now and possibly for the next few threads. Get a dozen behemoth replicators into Montana and one into Utah. Have them start converting the regions into our own and generally create more of themselves amongst other things like industry, military outposts and such.Meanwhile we expand the power generation abilities of Big mt / New Washington and finish the various non-fissile replication things before focusing on churning out more everything either to reinforce the efforts in the north or for local use.
>>1944793>Anyhow, we've got our plan for now and possibly for the next few threads. Get a dozen behemoth replicators into Montana and one into Utah. Have them start converting the regions into our own and generally create more of themselves amongst other things like industry, military outposts and such.That wasn't the plan, still a good plan though and i recommend it.
>>1944793The method of getting behemoths into Montanna and Utah are still lacking I think.
>>1944808It's a thing we can almost certainly do fairly cheaply (getting them there is the hard part) and it may very well lead to us being far larger and stronger.Plus we've discussing it for a long time.
>>1944818Nah it can fit, you said it yourself, it's smaller than you though >>1942772
Is QM here? I want to ask him something.
>>1944771Supporting this. The NCR's more 'moral' nature places them even more in direct competition with us. Sure let's use these bottlecaps to grab some more of their soldiers, but we will need a 'gift' of rare elements to continue.I completely stand against any idea of joining the NCR or attacking the Legion / MLA on their behalf.
>>1944870You're severely under estimating the power the "dark lord" has. We understand technology, but we have no fucking idea what this thing is capable of
>>1944884>but we have no fucking idea what this thing is capable ofThe forecaster does, and i recall QM mentioning the robobrains having some kind of psyker weapon which we can research.
>>1944884I'd argue actually that you are overestimating. I mean sure he does the occasional impressive feat but the problem is that the average joe of the MLA ain't that impressive all things considered compared to a Securitron or Assaultron.>>1944896Oh that too. Not to mention the Hubbologists.
>>1944896We can talk to the forecaster, but WE need to know what it can do. Just as we have scouted the NCR and we know more and more of their capabilities, we( or at least I) have no idea on what this thing is capable of, only that it is pure evil and powerful It seems that there is a faction here that are willing to "work" with the NCR and the other faction that won't, so it might be beneficial to get a consensus on where we all stand>>1944905Well sure, but we're fighting a dark god that we seemingly have almost no info on
>>1944908We have information on him. We know that he isn't all powerful, or the MLA would've won already. We know he isn't all seeing, or he would've seen us acting against him in the sunken city. We know he isn't all knowing, or his followers would never fall for any traps or tricks or anything.He is magical, powerful, arcane and strange but he is not a god. He'd barely even classify as a decent spirit in the warp.Consider that the MLA sacrifices dozens of slaves to make regular, if admittedly fit, men somewhere near as strong as Supermutants. There is a limit to how much this dark god can, or seemingly will, do for his followers.
>>1944931>We know he isn't all seeing, or he would've seen us acting against him in the sunken city.Didn't his agent mention us by name in the sunken city?
>>1944938That's what I thought too>>1944931I'm not saying that this thing is some OP thing that will end the game, or everyone would be bitching at QM for making a faction OP, all I am saying is that in my opinion it is easier to defeat something that has good tech than something that has mystical forces behind it.
>>1944931What he sees and what he tells his underlings he sees is two different things. And he's a god, of course he's going to lock away his power behind arcane rituals. Doesn't mean he's weak, just that its something that has to be done. And the MLA making everyone stuper strong is no laughing matter.
>- Ask Niner to send a rep. to give you continue updates on the fighting. When things don't look hot for them, tell the MLA some of the military info we found out to keep the scale of the fighting balanced."Pal, NOW is the time we need ya.Join us in the war buddy. You're missing out on so much. The Six I know wouldn't be afraid of no NCR. Move your people and your buildings underground, we'll send help. Can't bomb you from below. Get in the war, this is the perfect time!I mean, I'd love to keep feeding you information on our current military exploits and all that jazz. But some of the other Warlords still ain't sure you're on our side you get what I'm saying? Lemme show em you are on our side. We're one big front against the NCR you know. Got a representative from Caesar and all. Hell, we've already been official allies with Legate Valerious in the Northern Legion for years now Anyway."
>>1945007Well fuck, why do I feel like we're in another Fallout New Vegas?Everything is balanced and we have to be the ones to tip the scales? To keep things balanced, we have to help both sides equally
>>1944948I disagree seeing as we already have a counter for mystical forces unlike good tech.Hubbologist rituals and methods can block and create telepathic effects over great distances. Neutralising and weakening these profane rituals.>>1944953>What he sees and what he tells his underlings he sees is two different things. Then that which he does not tell them does not matter.>And he's a god, of course he's going to lock away his power behind arcane rituals. Doesn't mean he's weak, just that its something that has to be done. And the MLA making everyone stuper strong is no laughing matter.Not even that strong to be honest. We can certainly make robots of the same strength if not more without significant costs.As to him not being weak, if they must conduct rituals and thus his power is constrained then he IS weak for our purposes.
>>1945025>unlike good techWe're the most advanced in the world, we have a counter of good tech, it's even better tech.
QM can the Behemoth be transported in parts and assembled on the other side?
I say help the NCR to the extent that we allow them to fight and keep Elijah busy while we start seriously expanding our military and territory to sweep down from above when shit finally hits the fan.>>1945007"My folks are surrounded by NCR m8. I know we're not ready for a big fight. But in any case, did your engines serve its purpose?"
>>1945007>I want to help more then I could Niner, but you know the folks in the homes won't accept it. All I can do is aid ya from the shadows at best, plus still ain't on the best of terms after the Legion took the mojave.
>>1945020To be honest I'd side with the MLA / Legion. We can expand off the continental united states if we can get some coastal lands and that can most easily be achieved by conquering the NCR.>>1945029True.
>>1945050We're gonna conquer the NCR anyway, but we really have to be careful the can of worms we're opening.Do you remember the horror of the direct aftermath of the fall of New Vegas? Mass rapes and slaughter? That will be repeated but on a massive scale. If it really comes down to MLA/Legion or NCR then I choose NCR. Hopefully it doesn't come to that of course
>>1945063Then don't intervene until the war becomes unbalanced again, use the stalemate now to build ourselves up and later we'll see if we need to ally with the NCR to stop the dark god.
>>1945050Side with none of them. We wait till everyone is beaten the hell up and then we swoop down and destroy everything in the way.>>1945007"Niner, what I can't give you in military power I'll give you information. You tell me where you need info, anything you need built, supplies and I can provide. I just have to keep my hands clean until I know I'm not going to get my shit wrecked."
>>1945070There you go, this is my thinking exactly. Let's spread up north in Montana, maybe defeat that holographic fuck over in the Madre, and then we look at the big powers
>>1945063True but that is all the more reason to fight the NCR. So we can protect their population from their enemies.Also, if the choice is mass killings of the NCR (most of whom would be armed so the number of slaves they'd take would be very low) or mass killings of tribals and such as the NCR expands further east.>>1945077That ain't a option anymore possibly.
>>1945108We can't defeat the NCR quick enough that the legion or MLA doesn't get their dirty hands on it though. If there is a way, then I would be on that train right away.Also, if it's a civilized person over a tribal, then I choose civilization.
>>1945114>We can't defeat the NCR quick enough that the legion or MLA doesn't get their dirty hands on it though. If there is a way, then I would be on that train right away.Teleporters anon, use teleporters to take NCR territory that borders the other factions.Also airships, and MCVs/MWFs.
>>1945114Quick question, are you that anon who was arguing with Arcade about tribals being worthless?
>>1945120If we can set up teleporters that can cut off the NCR from the legion/MLA, reinforce our borders so the MLA/Legion don't enter it, and then quickly envelope an entire fucking nation, then color me surprised>>1945123Nah, I missed that debate I think
>>1945114See the MLA want us to commit to helping them win but that doesn't mean we need to go on the offensive immediately.However it would mean that we could have Niner come over and show him all of our cool sciencey shit and explain that we just need another year or so to produce a bunch more of these before we feel we'll be able to push out.>>1945120Also this, with the mobile replication systems we will be able to quickly turn their empty fields into stuff to support further military expansion.
>>1945127>If we can set up teleporters that can cut off the NCR from the legion/MLA, reinforce our borders so the MLA/Legion don't enter it, and then quickly envelope an entire fucking nation, then color me surprisedWell we could put a Dr. Mobious teleporter variant in a digger, have it emerge close to target city, then have it teleport endless waves of assaultrons to take the city and hold it against other factions.
>>1945139>However it would mean that we could have Niner come over and show him all of our cool sciencey shit and explain that we just need another year or so to produce a bunch more of these before we feel we'll be able to push out.Can we not show the MLA our stuff? Niner should already know how powerful we are by seeing our Legendary digger.
>>1945146We would then need to set up a defensive line hundreds of miles long, and do it within a few days of each other, but with our capabilities, it isn't actually impossible. We should save this idea for later>>1945139We shouldn't be showing anybody any of our science shit. It's the only thing we have for us. We shouldn't even be helping the MLA, we should be just making excuses until we can take out both factions
>>1945154>>1945162True but I mean showing off the Tankitron and maybe a assaultron / bastion. Trying to imply that we have strong shit and will be a good ally but that we need time.
>>1945162>We would then need to set up a defensive line hundreds of miles long, and do it within a few days of each other, but with our capabilities, it isn't actually impossible. We should save this idea for laterI know we can't do it right now, it's a plan for when we upgrade to a nation and can actually fight the other factions properly.