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>>1888700
You descend through the clouds, avoiding areas of thick lightning, and survey a ruined landscape below.

Giant craters pocket the earth, swirling glowing dust devils, and definite signs of life in the form of glowing deathclaws, roaming ghouls, and tiny monsters and criters below reminding you greatly of the Divide.

>Get down on foot and explore
>Explore by the air on your UFO
>Other?

>>1888709
>>Explore by the air on your UFO

>>1888709
>by air ubtil something promising

>>1888709
Explore on foot

>>1888709
>Get down on foot and explore

The possibility of running into pre-war automated AA is too high and we can beat everything mentioned by OP reliably.

>>1888845
>>1888836
2 for this
>>1888772
>>1888769
2 for this

I may be a bit busy today, I got the thread started to say I'm back but definitely will be getting back into the hang of proper updates soon.

>>1888869

There is absolutely no need to rush. Tend to your IRL issues first and foremost, and that includes your mental health. People will still be around afterward.

Any updates on your status in the midst of all this craziness would be appreciated, though.

>>1888709
>>Explore by the air on your UFO

>>1888869
Glad to hear that you are still alive qm. Im sorry about your situation.

>>1888709
>Explore by the air on your UFO


Also, last thread you mentioned
>For factories, it would make more sense for you to chuck in dirt, debris, etc.
Which is exactly what I am advocating for, however you also mentioned
>For stuff that can't always be able to have a conveyor belt of dirt to equal the same amount of steel, direct energy to matter would be prudent.
And I want to know what this stuff is. Are you referring to mobile bases? Can this not be accomplished by a teleporter shoveling dirt from Homebase?

Also, on the topic of portals, how much energy would a shielded portal need? In terms of resisting temperature of up to 5000K and pressures of up to 50 000 atm?

>>1888923
Also very good point.

>>1889205
Why do you want to make a portal in the sun? ignoring the fact getting the portal generator into the sun is beyond us right now?

>>1889215
Who said anything about the sun? My idea would be to dump a shielded portal into the upper mantle of the earth, have it float near the top and siphon up matter that we dump into a huge replicator we will bring. Bonuspoint for preheated matter (slightly lower overall cost).

If that is unfeasible, we go back to the mantle drill.

>>1889229
I don't think 50000 atm is survivable by anything. nor is 5000 K.

Rolled 14 (1d100)

>>1889205
>And I want to know what this stuff is.
The Super Sub. Mobile Robots. Aircraft. Really things which aren't near a readily available source of crap to disintegrate.

>>1889229
Even presuming a portal like that could be sustained, that would be some potentially wacky physical effects.

>>1889017
>>1889205
>>Explore by the air on your UFO

Rollan

Rolled 88 (1d100)

>>1889264

>>1889264
But all of the problems of mobile bases can be overcome by adding a nifty portal and shipping stuff from back home.

As to the deep core portal, was a stretch but now I have something to work off of if ever we face shields or need to make our own. Also, with replicators, no hassle portals and FEV, THIS seems whacky to you? :D

>>1889244
Temperature is not that big a deal, especially since any metal wont be directly touching the rock. If you think on IRL fusion reactors, the European tokamak runs at 150 000 000 K. Quite a number and it still doesnt melt (although yes, the temperature is brief) The pressure is a bigger problem, although if we can visit the Mariana Trench at 1000 ATM with a steel barrel I dont see why the shielding is such a big stretch. Especially considering all the other stuff we do.

>>1889284
The real question is how you'd get a portal down to mantle.

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>>1889264
As you venture deeper into the radstorm, very unexpectedly the power shuts down.

Your pip boy shuts down.

EVERYTHING shuts down.

Your craft takes a hurdle down to the earth as you desperately flick switches and press buttons to no avail, and you land with an incredible thud.

You recover in a few minutes, thankfully niether you nor Sonia are hurt.

The ship appears to not be in any damage, but is unresposive. You check your pip boy, but its as if it had been turned off. Your power armor has been depowered. It weighs like a bitch, and you crawl out of the ship more than a little over encumbered.

You look around and see a curious sight indeed. On the one side, behind the ship, the wasteland and the rad storm. On the other, bizarrely, a bright blue sky with the warm sun shining down on desert sand.

There is a forest of. . .stop signs in front of you.

>What do
>Onward!
>Pull the ship back and repair it
>Look around here / other?

>>1889417
disposable drill, have it disitegrate everything in front and just drop it. It is not meant to come back up again and as long as the portal works its all good. Besides, "normal" drilling breaks down where the rock becomes too malleable so it flows into the bore hole. In our case, this is just what we want. So we sacrifice a simple driller and get the portal down there, never to be retrieved again. Bonus points for being able to destroy whatever we want in a place literally nobody will find/reach.

*cough* *cough* Oddball *cough*

>>1889433
>Onward!

>>1889433
>>Onward!
Sneaky-like. Use low-tech weapons and paper to mark things down. Find out what in the hell can shut down all this tech and how we can weaponize it. Hard counter to BoS and the best parts of the NCR, also the better weapons of the MLA. Whatever it is, steal it, figure it out and make it into a portable weapon/doomsday device for our city. Make the desert even worse for invaders.

>>1889456
This

>>1889433
>Onward!

>>1889456
Supporting.

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>>1889456
You drag your armor forward, and both of you prepare your conventional weapons.

It's very very hard to move through the stop sign forest. It turns out the sand here is very loose, theres barbed wire and mines strewn about, which you disable. It gets harder and harder until finally you make it past.

After that, surprisingly, your pip boy and power turns on again and works. You don't know what made it stop.

Up ahead in the clear sky and sunny sand, you see what looks like a single, lonely storage building rusted and aged. Surrounded by a forest of stop signs, "beware" messages, and chain link barbed wire fences and more. There are signs of vehicle tracks, and a broken part of the fence but no vehicle in sight.

>What do?

>>1889680
>Sneaking time.

>>1889680
Why the fuck did we leave our armor on? From someone with 10 INT it should be obvious that it slows us down. If the power problem strikes again we are fucked.

Anyway, sneak on in. Keep a silenced weapon and a knife handy for indoors, have a shotgun on standby, preferrably constantly cloak ourselves. Do not confront anything and use nonlethal takedowns (if we didnt bring our tranq gun I will flip my shit) unless we are sure they are hostile.

>>1889758
Well it still is power armor and still offers the protection

>>1889758
The DT is nice even when depowered, and its relatively easy to drop armor. this is mostly a game mechanic. around the courier things get very vidya-ish

>>1889691
>>1889758
Writing!

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>>1889832
You sneak up to the warehouse door, entering it from the side. The door is locked, extremely so, but you pick your way through it.

What you find is, frankly, unbelieveable.

You see endless rows of boxes stacked high into the ceiling, going on and on and on.

And, though you have no way of legitimately proving it. . .it seems to be bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. None of the windows even match up with those on the outside.

It's utterly quiet, very dusty, strangely cool, and oddly the lights are on and still on so power is coming from somewhere.

You're not even sure where to begin.

>Open up a box and look at it
>Wander around this storage labrynth
>I wonder what happens if you try to poke a hole to the outside
>Other?

>>1889949
>Look around for a shipping manifest or something.

>>1889949
On the one hand, the ark of the covenant should be in here somewhere.


On the other hand, this entire place is filled with incredibly dangerous magical, technological and historical artifacts that we shouldn't mess with.

>>1889949
>>Open up a box and look at it
WE NEED THE ARK

>>1889949
>>Open up a box and look at it

>>1889949

>Attempt to contact AHS-9
Let's check and see if psionic communications work in here...and what they set off. Then we'll know what boxes have interesting things.

>>1890026
>Attempt to contact AHS-9
"It doesn't really work that way, at least not yet with the current design. ASH-9 sort of contacts you.

You do try, putting on your silly helmet. . .you get nothing. Nothing but strange noises and eery whispers that seem to echo. You wisely take off your helmet for now."

>>1890026
Radio communications. . .everything. Even your portal technology seems to be blocked, with the obvious exception of your Tesla Coil.

>>1890011
>>1890020
2 for this
>>1889962
1 for this

Guys, we can almost certainly come back here later but for now let's not forget our reason for being up here in the north: we are here to locate and establish an outpost; not to mess around with this vast collection of miracles.

Rolled 58 (1d100)

>>1889962
Supporting this with roll

Automated non-ai defenses probably wouldn't regard this as hostile.

Gonna be busy again tonight, like I said I'll try to get back into regular postings hopefully by tomorrow

Rolled 94, 97 = 191 (2d100)

>>1889962
>>1890143

>>1890011
>>1890020

Guess I'll just do both of them then

>>1891850
Is this good. Or bad?

>>1891850
wew lad, Is that good for us or bad?

>>1891850
*sweats*

>>1890083
So we get a shitty hut village instead of magitech? Dude, what even. We figure out how it works and we take advantage of it.

>>1890052
That seems awfully convenient...

It also means that we CAN communicate with BigMT, since we get signals from our brain. Realistically speaking, our brain knows what we know and on top of that, the signals move through the portal, meaning we CAN send signals back and forth through this thing. Even if radio comms dont reach outside, the portal offers a shortcut.

Nice try though.

>>1889949
Also, beeline for a control center. The manifest may give us a glimpse but real insight comes from the offices of higher ups.

>>1892784
>So we get a shitty hut village instead of magitech? Dude, what even. We figure out how it works and we take advantage of it.
Oh I'm sorry I actually give a damn about our objective for being in this region over playing "roll the dice for what magical artefact you possibly get" especially when most of the shit in here is going to be useless to us.

>>1892784
>That seems awfully convenient...
It does doesn't it?

Quite arbitrary and highly illogical. By all means if all things were stopped you should have gone unconscious when you hit whatever it is that took down your UFO.

Logically speaking you should be able to contact your brain, but either your brain is trying to send radio signals back and it can't reach or. . .something else is happening.

You suspect your Brain at least can hear you, although hearing your own brain is another matter.

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>>1891850
>94
Before you even begin your search, you look around your immediate area.

Not surprisingly you find a skeleton. This one appears to not be Old World, but a scavenger or perhaps a Raider, with a pip-boy and some holotapes.

Listening to the tapes and reading the journal, you hear of his gruesome tale. Evidently he was part of a Raider party that broke into the warehouse in search of loot and treasure. Loot and treasure they found indeed, but more than they bargained for.

They too, like you, ventured in deeper to find a shipping manifest or some sort of archive catalog to tell them where everything is. All the boxes are marked in numbers and encrypted barcodes, surely out there must be something to detail where things are and what is inside a box before you open it.

The importance of this is made clear when one of their party opened up a box, and was killed in a horrific manner, evidently something decided to enter his belly and eat him from the inside out.

After that, the team realized they were lost. Days turned into weeks of searching for the way they came back, efforts to make some damage marks or leave trails seemed to be foiled: damage mysteriously repaired itself, or the trail of thread they left behind became tangle with a different trail of thread from a separate party.

Until he was the last man standing. Trying to survive, living off of rats or whatever cans of what he can only presume is food.

Poor fellow died of exhaustion, having finally found the exit where you are right now.

>>1893079
Yeah, no. We ain't going anywhere near this place any time soon. Take his shit, go back out and get our scout-ship back in the air.

>>1893105
We're the goddamned Courier, and you're worried about what did a Raider in?

If we can't tackle places like this then we'll just fall victim to the people who can.

>>1893155
He had a pipboy map. Assuming they had half a brain, getting lost and dead in a bulding you have a map of seems like something fucky is going on. I say leave this be until we can properly prepare.

>>1893176
For sure something fucky is going on, but my wager is that whatever fucky is going on hasn't met someone Courier-tier yet. And I feel that's a perfectly reasonable wager.

>>1893176
>>1893105

This is NOT all that different from venturing into, say, a parasitic plant infested Vault or something. We shouldn't get scared and leave just because we can't see the source of the danger immediately.

>>1893155
>>1893189
>>1893184
We are talking about a place that they couldn't navigate with any method availible to us and fact is this guy was at it for quite some time and he managed to die before escaping.

Even if, IF, we could actually get through this place that doesn't change the fact it'd take far too long in my opinion. Not to mention the risk of running into some insanely deadly artefact like his group did.


This place is secure, we can come back later when we have more resources but for now we can't get side-tracked.

>>1893079
Nah senpai, we're going in deep and hard

>>1893245
>Some insanely deadly artifact
It killed some raiders, that's a joke.

We're also capable of living for weeks on practically nothing, unlike the raiders.

I can't believe anons are being such pussies and getting spooked over this shit. If I ever had to defend against the courier, clearly all I need is an EMP field, Communications Jamming Tech, a skeletal corpse w/ pipboy, and to write a vaguely threatening story about starvation and put it near the skeleton.

Okay, I'll admit skeletons are always super spooky tho.

>>1893352
>It killed some raiders, that's a joke.
They opened the crate it was in and died. Like fuck I want to risk that.

>We're also capable of living for weeks on practically nothing, unlike the raiders.
Now you are pulling shit out your ass.

>If I ever had to defend against the courier, clearly all I need is an EMP field, Communications Jamming Tech, a skeletal corpse w/ pipboy, and to write a vaguely threatening story about starvation and put it near the skeleton.
No, you'd also need to hide in the middle of a spatial-compression field that also shifts entire regions like a box of lego. Then no one would attempt to get to you but you couldn't get out.


Or are you implying we have some magical way of walking into this warehouse of ever-shifting paths and getting out any time soon?

>>1893079
I know what your basing this off QM or atleast I think I do. You worry me

>>1893382
>
The importance of this is made clear when one of their party opened up a box, and was killed in a horrific manner, evidently something decided to enter his belly and eat him from the inside out.
One. Something killed ONE of them. Oh how terrifying.

I can't recall the last time my Courier ate anything, in fact I believe I can go through the entire game without eating, sleeping, drinking, or relieving myself once. Accordingly, the Courier can manage the same.

I doubt it'll take more than a month to get out of here (and we've alotted 1 turn to this search). Even if it does all we do is have to use next turn's hero action to continue searching for a base out here. That's not a big deal.

In sum I don't think we're in any existential danger and a moderate delay does not realistically impede progress on any of our objects as opposed to the possible gains of figuring this place out.

>>1893419
>I can't recall the last time my Courier ate anything, in fact I believe I can go through the entire game without eating, sleeping, drinking, or relieving myself once. Accordingly, the Courier can manage the same.
Mate, this ain't a game. Else we could just load up with enough healing powder and survive walking through machinegun fire.

>I doubt it'll take more than a month to get out of here (and we've alotted 1 turn to this search). Even if it does all we do is have to use next turn's hero action to continue searching for a base out here. That's not a big deal.
It is a major delay in terms of getting resources up north and bases / projects underway.

>In sum I don't think we're in any existential danger and a moderate delay does not realistically impede progress on any of our objects as opposed to the possible gains of figuring this place out.
So you don't think that wandering into this place will end horribly? Cause I do. I'd rather we send in teams of random fucks and prisoners later when we have expendable people (the north has plenty of raider bands we can use).

Plus, what do you expect to find in here? What miracle do you really want to find? How do you plan on getting it out of here anytime soon? Where and how would you make use of it?

>>1893419
Did you play survival? It doesn't sound like it.

Do we carry 1 month's worth of water? because 1 month in a labyrinth can be plenty fatal even without dangerous things lurking around.

I think we should leave, and once we have control over the surrounding area, then investigate more thoroughly. Get a kit made specifically for maze running.

>>1893062
Thats cheap man. THIS is what people complain about.

>>1893058
So you wanna go play barbies over pillaging/securing valuable loot? Nope.

>>1893352
This anon gets it.

>>1893079
Continue on, find a control room/secret radiofuckery center and figure it out. Dont open boxes and try to survey the area. If need be, go along one wall to not get lost, climb high to have a vantage point.

>>1893502
It's either that or the courier goes brain dead, so I could forgive it.

>>1893462
What use would securing the area give us inside the building. Moreover, what would constitute a "maze kit" that we dont already have on us? Seeing as radio, portal and other crap doesnt work, we really are as equipped as we are going to be. Going in now is the best course of action and its not going to get better.

>>1893513
OR, portals work. Also, we should have an indication that the portal is fluttering so we know shit is fucked up.

The issue is not that we cant do it, but that the ruling is so arbitrary it hurts. If anything technical is fucked here, we would need to equip our brain and come back (which is fine and makes sense, in contrast to our brainportal being the only thing that works and that too is "magically" not 100% right now).

>>1893440
Well yes, we basically do load up on stimpacks and survive walking through machinegun fire. It's been outright stated that the Courier runs on pseudo-videogame logic. We in fact survived machine-gun grenade fire when we decided to go against Elijah in the middle of his fortress, it was only Liquid Condensed Cloud and running out of stimpacks that made us finally have to retreat (though the whole thing was retarded anyhow).

>>1893502
>So you wanna go play barbies over pillaging/securing valuable loot? Nope.
Fuck you. Up until now I thought we were actually having a reasonable discussion but now I see you are just going to be a cunt.

>>1893519
Securing the position prevents people from stealing whatever stuff we leave behind. A month is a long time for raiders to come along and scavenge our saucer into little pieces. It also prevents other people from entering the maze and messing things up.

Markers, chalk, rope, water, glow sticks, food, things like that.

>>1893440
>What miracle do you really want to find?
How about the "No-tech" field? Doesnt seem useful to you?? Or the miriad of tech and artefacts? What about the bigger-on-the-inside phenomenon? A tiny driller bot that splurges out thousands of bots doesnt entice you??

There is so much valuable shit here its stupid. I am sure QM wont let us have anywhere near what we should but even then this is bonkers useful. And you want a base here? What better place could there be?? We figure out how to control the no-tech field and we have an unassailable Haven in a radstorm. Add teleporters and you have a way to project power without being in danger. How can you not see the uses here??

>>1893540
Nobody has been here in a long while, the only other thing here is a dead raider, there is a radstorm outside and if anybody wants to looot anything they die. How much more safe do you want this??

Also, all the stuff you mentioned we either have or doesnt work. There is literally nothing we could get that would change anything. Stop being a pansy and seize the chance!

>>1893535
Ok, I overstepped my bounds. I apologize. However, you have to realize this is far more valuable than a shitty shack in the mddle of nowhere. Moreover, this is a perfect location for a base.

>>1893571
It has to come from somewhere and something has to be creating it. I dont expect us to copy-paste the thing but I do expect the Courier to be able to take control of it here.

The radstorm is an extra layer around this place. Considering there are blue skies around us it is not unreasonable to assume it has an effect on it. The point was mainly that people dont go into radstorms for fun and anyone that does want to find us has to brave it and the beast within. Meaning, even before you get to the fuckoff tech barrier to have to cross a FUCKOFF radstorm with raddeathclaws and radscorpions and whateer else. Meaning, this place is secure.

>>1893552
No-tech field just sounds unweildy. Impossible to study, impossible to use in conjunction with our army. and it's possible other phenomena are responsible for the rad storms. You also assume we can replicate anything that is going on here, and it isn't just one of those "mysteries of the universe, doesn't make sense" type things.

>>1893564
Obviously people come here every so often for loot and die for it. But they won't ignore the literal flying saucer sitting outside the death warehouse.Leaving the saucer sitting around, is a risk that we have to take into consideration.

The field works on technology. I purposely didn't include any technology in the list. Just specialized spelunking type equipment.

>>1893598
Considering that all our stuff shut down and the reactivated some distance later means it can be controlled and altered (seeing as radio is still out but the pipboy works now). This means it could be projected in shapes and sizes (a wall of fuck you in front of our robot lines, the enemy armor shutting down before tankitrons open up full force, rather useful no?).

As to the saucer, yes, that is a concern. However, nobody will be towing it out of here and nobody will be breaking in (and if we didnt lock the thing My god QM).

As to the twine and chalk, the raiders used it, didnt work for shit ergo useless to us as well. Again, nothing we need that we dont have with us now. Lets move on now.

>>1893552
>How about the "No-tech" field? Doesnt seem useful to you?
If we were the Legion, then yes. Seeing as we rely on robots and other such methods, not really.

>Or the miriad of tech and artefacts?
Most of them are either situational as hell, expensive as hell or unwieldy as hell.

>What about the bigger-on-the-inside phenomenon? A tiny driller bot that splurges out thousands of bots doesnt entice you?
Assuming we could actually sustain it on such a craft, maybe but I'd rather just use teleportation.

>And you want a base here? What better place could there be?
Somewhere that technology works and that robots can come and go from without going offline.

>>1893568
Thanks for the apology but I disagree.

>>1893645
Seeing as the field can be altered in intensity by region it stands to reason it can be made to suit our needs. Thus most of the problems with this place fall away and become boons instead.

As to spookyscary boxes, we dont have to use every one but seeing as there are tens of thousands of boxes there is a statistical certainty that many of them will be actively useful. Whether alien tech, psycic McGuffins or interesting biotech, it is useful all round. AND it offers something to throw at our enemies (one of those worms in Oddballs office as a gift, for example).

The we make our building bigger on the inside. So while NW looks as big as a pop of 1000, it actually houses tens of thousands and all the robotics facilities we could ever want. Easier to defend a smaller area of space and all that.

With a base here and portals to select surrounding areas we have a secure location for free. If you want a fortified location outside, build one from hexcrete and conect it to the warehouse. It has all the space we need and you would never expect a robot army from a 2-story 100squaremeter house.

>warehouse 13
...

make note of its location, gather a team of scientists, make sure we have their DNA record, equip them with 2 years worth of food and water and drop them off with instructions to perform routine monthly brain scans. communication to be handled by physical storage walked out to a small outpost outside the event perimeter.

in case of inevitable fuck up activate and flash train replacement clones.

>>1893747
We definitely SHOULD go SCP on this place but lets take control of it first.

>>1893760
You don't seem to understand. This guy >>1893747 is how you take control of it.

>>1893770
We are here, we are far more able to do the job and FAR more likely to not only survive but succeed. You are irrationally afraid of this.

>>1893787

>point out how you maintain and control the place via with another anon said
>You are irrationally afraid of this.

I don't know who the fuck you think you are addressing but it sure as fuck isn't me because this isn't fear, I don't want some half-ass job. I want this done properly and we don't have the time to sit around kicking back in a warehouse that can change its size and shit when we need to beat out the Legion, MLA and NCR into this state with its possibly untapped resources. Make sense?

>>1893807
If you read what I have written, you will realize I am advocating for the PC to get to the heart of this place and take control. Not to go spelunking around the crates for the next 10 years.

So again, WE GO DO THIS NOW and have underlings catalogue the crap after we take control of the notech barrier (or shut it down at least) and make sure we have it for ourselves.

Dont get so uppity.

>>1893682
>Seeing as the field can be altered in intensity by region it stands to reason it can be made to suit our needs. Thus most of the problems with this place fall away and become boons instead.
Except you have nothing to base this assertion on. Beyond your belief that it is something we can control rather than a property of a artefact or the region itself.

>As to spookyscary boxes, we dont have to use every one but seeing as there are tens of thousands of boxes there is a statistical certainty that many of them will be actively useful. Whether alien tech, psycic McGuffins or interesting biotech, it is useful all round. AND it offers something to throw at our enemies (one of those worms in Oddballs office as a gift, for example).
There is also a statistical certainty that somewhere within this place are dozens of artefacts that will kill us horribly.

>The we make our building bigger on the inside. So while NW looks as big as a pop of 1000, it actually houses tens of thousands and all the robotics facilities we could ever want. Easier to defend a smaller area of space and all that.
That fails to solve the innate problem we are having, of a lack of water to sustain such a population.

>With a base here and portals to select surrounding areas we have a secure location for free. If you want a fortified location outside, build one from hexcrete and conect it to the warehouse. It has all the space we need and you would never expect a robot army from a 2-story 100squaremeter house.
True but that is many more portals than we otherwise need and I'd point out that this place has no large power supply to sustain a portal that we know of or can easily access.

>>1893747
Essentially my plan. Leave it be for now and then once we have control of the region establish every countermeasure, safeguard and quarantine protocol possible along with using purely expendable assets like criminals and POW's for on the ground labour, lead by a few scientific supervisors.

>>1893807
Essentially, this. Plus I'd rather not risk the Courier getting killed by something in here which we can entirely avoid. Especially when we have higher priorities to take care of than some potential wunderweapons in these crates, like getting a base set up and beginning to claim the region.

>>1893825
>If you read what I have written, you will realize I am advocating for the PC to get to the heart of this place and take control. Not to go spelunking around the crates for the next 10 years.
I think you are misunderstand our point: if we wander about in here we could be lost forever even if your goal is just to go to the command centre.

>>1893825
>Dont get so uppity.
>Calls me irrational because I want things done properly and not half assed.

Alright Anon, You do you. Because it seems you lack the ability to understand my point.

Let's just have a vote and get on with it. No one is going to succeed changing other one's opinion.

>>1893844
Pshh. Everyone knows you can solve any labyrinth with the right hand rule.
It would be /super/ easy to get to the center of this magically shifting warehouse and take control. Probably just a button labelled take control somewhere.

>>1893861
The fact that I agree with your assessment saddens me greatly but I suppose we must accept the immobility of both sides opinions in this case.

>>1893828
>Except you have nothing to base this assertion on. Beyond your belief that it is something we can control rather than a property of a artefact or the region itself.
So both of us are assuming things. I guess we have to go have a look and find out then.

>>1893828
>There is also a statistical certainty that somewhere within this place are dozens of artefacts that will kill us horribly.
Yes, and we will not open crates randomly. Dont assume I want to suicide us.

>>1893828
>That fails to solve the innate problem we are having, of a lack of water to sustain such a population.
Then we make water tanks that are bigger on the inside, directly portal water from the ocean or make water from rock with our replicators. Can you really not imagine new and interesting ways this tech could be used?? You are playing in a Fallout Quest for crying out loud!

>>1893828
>True but that is many more portals than we otherwise need and I'd point out that this place has no large power supply to sustain a portal that we know of or can easily access.
Power from back home and the warehouse is a valuable asset unto itself. we need to get this now.

>>1893828
>Leave it be for now
Have you noticed how, every time we "leave to come back later" shit gets progressively harder for us? Alsmost as if QM is countering our preparation by GM fuckery? "Vault metal walls" still piss me off and the Marked Men magically organizing is another fine example of this.

>>1893828
>Essentially, this. Plus I'd rather not risk the Courier getting killed by something in here which we can entirely avoid. Especially when we have higher priorities to take care of than some potential wunderweapons in these crates, like getting a base set up and beginning to claim the region.
Again, this is THE BEST base around. We will add portals anyway and we will not open crates "fortehlulz".

>>1893861
>Let's just have a vote and get on with it. No one is going to succeed changing other one's opinion.
Agreed.

>>1893874
>but I suppose we must accept the immobility of both sides opinions in this case.
The Backfire Effect is clearly displayed here. What is interesting is that I explain myself as logical and ambitious while I view the opposite side as cowarldy based on fear of what might go wrong instead of thinking what might be achieved. How is it for you anons?

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Backfire_effect

>>1893892
Does the fact that someone agrees with you make you more sure of your position irregardless of concerns raised or arguments given?

>>1893892
personally I feel the Warehouse is a gigantic clusterfuck of potentially deadly time wasters. we could waste dozens of hero actions wandering around, or we could clone a science and security team to wander around for us. will some of them die? probably. But there are more important things for the Courier to do.

>>1893876
>So both of us are assuming things. I guess we have to go have a look and find out then.
I believe it could be any number of things, that you or I might be right but I feel that no matter what it won't be of any use to us in immediate terms.

>Yes, and we will not open crates randomly. Dont assume I want to suicide us.
Yet you willingly walk into an ever-shifting maze where no method of navigation works.

>Then we make water tanks that are bigger on the inside, directly portal water from the ocean or make water from rock with our replicators.
I don't disagree that those are, incredibly inefficient (you are talking about teleportation of huge amounts of water constantly and replicating similar masses of water), possible solutions but fact is that I was pointing out how your "solution" solves nothing in regards to those problems.

>Can you really not imagine new and interesting ways this tech could be used? You are playing in a Fallout Quest for crying out loud!
I can but none are worth investing in or researching in my opinion compared to more conventional methods.

>Power from back home and the warehouse is a valuable asset unto itself.
Power from back home how? Teleported? Well we've not tested the concept and it'd be insanely expensive.

>we need to get this now.
We really don't.

>Have you noticed how, every time we "leave to come back later" shit gets progressively harder for us? Alsmost as if QM is countering our preparation by GM fuckery? "Vault metal walls" still piss me off and the Marked Men magically organizing is another fine example of this.
To be entirely frank and plain, I agree that he has pulled some truly insane bullshit but I don't see how he can pull that here.

>Again, this is THE BEST base around. We will add portals anyway and we will not open crates "fortehlulz".
This "best base" that we can't send robots out from and can't navigate the inside of? I'd hate to see what the worst is like.

>>1893892
>What is interesting is that I explain myself as logical and ambitious while I view the opposite side as cowardly based on fear of what might go wrong instead of thinking what might be achieved. How is it for you anons?
I see you as ambitious in the same way as Icarus. You are taking unneeded risks and ignoring the original goal. Logical however? Not really, I see your reasoning but I feel that you underestimate the potential danger and time needed for this.

I just want to fulfil the goal of us being here, establishing a base in the north for further expansion, and to not get side-tracked by this place. I don't care about what rewards we might lose out on or however much you feel we could gain because I feel this place is secure from other groups that could threaten us for now and that we should fulfil our original goal. I see my proposed actions as logical and cautious. Focused on our mission.

>>1893985
Very well. I see this argument is going nowhere fast and we need QM to sort this shit out. However, I do urge you to take into account QM fuckery when it comes to easily abusable concepts (like portals, replicators and so on). In the past QM has fucked us in random ways when an easy "WIN" button has presented itself. This is why I feel we must take all valuables we can as soon as we can before QM finds a way to weasel us out of it (Sanctuary was a perfect example of what we gain if we act agressively and without undue moral qualms, while the Divide and Sierra Madre are examples of when we dont).

I simply fear that when QM realizes what he has given us he will take it away to "balance it out". And that pisses me off something bad. As it does you, I see.

>>1894082
I understand your position and sympathise but I also know that if QM feels the need to balance this place out, he can just unleash a crate on us or something.


Fact is this is why I personally focus on simple things. More bases, people factories and numbers rather than miracle technologies and such.

>>1894119
But this is exactly the opposite of our strenghts. We build tall and high-tech. We can never out industry the NCR, the BoS or even the MLA. We have to use clever tactics and weapons the enemy lacks/has no counter to to ensure victory. This is why immortal necron warriors, Technoplagues and flying doomsday fortresses are our goal. If we go line fight anybody we lose so hard its not even funny. I dont know if QM has tought this through but he is enticing us to go low tech while punishing magitech or use of advanced techs (think about the clusterfuck around the replicator orthe thread-long debate before we could lose the fissile requiremet around them.

>>1894206
Nah, see you misunderstand. My plan ain't to invest in space lasers or nuclear weapons or even in Tankitrons for the most part besides a few hundered to act as a spearhead / elite force.


My plan? Maintain our current tech level, as it is superior to the NCR (majorly) and BOS (slightly) and focus on expansion, industrialisation and such.Fact is we have went in four years from a un-industrialised state into a fairly powerful one. Given another few years I can guarantee our industry will rival the NCR's current capacity at least. Especially as we gain more and more of Montana along with the Legion and whatever we can grab from the MLA. The manpower of these two regions along with their resources will allow for such industrial projects along with whatever we can reclaim of the pre-war world.

Then it's a matter of divide and conquer, personally I'd argue we should just maintain a focus on expanding further and further out towards the south, east, west and even north until we control as much of the world as possible (and potential get a space station / lunar mission underway) but I get the feeling that most want to defeat the BOS / NCR ASAP.

>>1894302
But we specialize into /research/ not into manufacturing. Our whole society is based around it, in fact. Why would we change tact when we're not really even close to a research ceiling anywhere?

>>1894302
I dont think you realize what a nation of 2+million people under a common cause can do VS 200 with some robots. In any real sense they will out-grow us easily if we go by factories built. Easily if we go by infrastructure.

If you remeber how they built up the Boneyard from nothing into a powerhouse with multiple steel foundries, roads houses, flowing water and so on. Not to mention the fortifications and this is just one place. Seeing how much manpower they can throw around we will lose. Its not even a contest. And if you think the jokels from Montana can come anywhere near that scale of efficient workforce you are mistaken. What you are suggesting is a use of local manpower to build up until we can go robot from there. This means while we try to educate the plebs on construction, the NCR has added 4 foundries to their nation and expanded everything else (this includes schools, roads, waterworks and so on). They went from no cars to lots of new ones in 4 years. This is a mad level of progress (Mary Sue levels, in fact) and if you think we can come close with untrained organic workers you have been sorely mislead. Unless we bridge the growth cap with superior tech and methods we are fucked. Whether this be replicating robots from dirt (FAR quicker than refining ore or resmelting scrap), finding better ways to protect our bots to pull the force multiplier in our favor (1 shielded tankbot is worth many more unshielded footmen with AKs) or coming up with something they cant counter (subdrillers with explosives guided by stealt assaultrons to destabilize the NCR industry).

>>1894356
Because it ain't changing tact. Fact is that educating any expansion to our society as researchers and shit even with all of our technology could take years (I'm thinking six to eight at least) but during that time they can still do shit in construction and shit.

>>1894401
>I don't think you realise what a nation of 2+million people under a common cause can do VS 200 with some robots. In any real sense they will out-grow us easily if we go by factories built. Easily if we go by infrastructure.
Not really. Seeing as it won't be 200 with some robots but rather 20,000+ (seriously I expect much more) with a fuck ton of robots. Not to mention the efforts of the MLA weakening the NCR makes it a bit of a closer fight if nothing else.

>If you remember how they built up the Boneyard from nothing into a powerhouse with multiple steel foundries, roads houses, flowing water and so on.
Boneyard had steel foundries years ago. It is mentioned in game.

>Not to mention the fortifications and this is just one place.
Which is what they were doing to train their population up in construction work.

>Seeing how much manpower they can throw around we will lose. Its not even a contest.
So you feel that we will win by making wonder weapons? Then you are insane.

>And if you think the yokels from Montana can come anywhere near that scale of efficient workforce you are mistaken. What you are suggesting is a use of local manpower to build up until we can go robot from there. This means while we try to educate the plebs on construction, the NCR has added 4 foundries to their nation and expanded everything else (this includes schools, roads, waterworks and so on).
Trust me, you are underestimating how much we can do with them and overestimating how much the NCR can do.

>>1894487
>They went from no cars to lots of new ones in 4 years.
Actually we've got no reason to believe that true, we've only been to the big cities. It is true however they have produced at least a few thousand which as I have said previously, feels like bullshit.

>This is a mad level of progress (Mary Sue levels, in fact) and if you think we can come close with untrained organic workers you have been sorely mislead.
Our troops were made into engineers with a simple set of eye augments and a few weeks of training. I feel we can get most of such a group of organic workers trained as welders and such just as quick if not quicker.

>Unless we bridge the growth cap with superior tech and methods we are fucked. Whether this be replicating robots from dirt (FAR quicker than refining ore or remelting scrap), finding better ways to protect our bots to pull the force multiplier in our favour (1 shielded tank-bot is worth many more unshielded footmen with AKs) or coming up with something they cant counter (sub-drillers with explosives guided by stealth assaultrons to destabilise the NCR industry).
It was stated when we visited the NCR in the Boneyard that we could double their output with our technology. There's your superiority. As to all the rest of that, what ever implied I wouldn't want to sabotage their shit? I've been advocating it for quite some time and I'd point out we don't have any sorts of shields currently. As to tank-bots specifically, I'd point out that I still want to use them but for now they aren't something we can readily produce thanks to their entirely replicated nature. Compared to most other robots we make use of but when we have sufficient power and non-fissile replication capacity I'd probably make more use of them but honestly since I can't do a raw numbers comparison of effectiveness I don't trust them.

>>1894487
> Fact is that educating any expansion to our society as researchers and shit even with all of our technology could take years (I'm thinking six to eight at least) but during that time they can still do shit in construction and shit.
This sentence structure should've been reworked, it wasn't very clear what you were trying to say.

Construction is more efficiently performed by bots. Accordingly about the only productive thing any newly incorporated folks could do is go about educating themselves up to researcher standards.

>>1894506
Not really.

Fact is that a large portion of our construction capacity comes from our organics like Miles and our engineer infantry squads. Also even if construction can be performed more efficiently I never implied we wouldn't be making use of them but rather that we would be making use of humans as well since they can be made to perform simple labour like digging, welding, hammering and such with minimal training.

>>1894487
Dude, are you seriously this bad at math?? 2 MILLION people, who live and breathe for the country and who are near totally behind the goals of said country. WE CANT OUT INDUSTRY them. How do you suppose we can make more factories?? How do you propose to educate 20 000 people in any menaingful time (keep in mind the biggest know-how they have is shooting and farming).

You have got to face reality here. If we try to beat the NCR on their field we lose. No contest. You HAVE to realize we are behind in industry and ahead in tech. As >>1894356 said, tech is the only thing going for us and you want to disregard it?? What even.

As I mentioned, we can compensate for our small size by going quality and high-tech. Fully realized replicator tech, near-invulnerable bots and hightech weapons are the only way we can take down a giant like the NCR. Not by building a few factories in bumfuck nowhere.

>>1894526
Are you really this dense you dont get WHY we have digging and welding machines?? Or do you think we can turn every one of the 20k idiots into engineers and then MAGICALLY conjure up enough machines to make use of them??

Guess what, Miles doesnt dig anything, he has bots do it, so your argumentation is shit here.

>>1894506
You have it correct. Unless we go full replicators and badass bots we will never reach NCR military levels in time.

>>1894534
We can and I am certain of this. If anything I feel that trying to do as you advise is the insane option.

Also, stop with the double question marks. It makes you seem like a four year old.

>>1894546
So you "are certain"? Oh well great then, no more complaints form me.

Seriously, THIS is the argument you have?

And the double marks are to express my dibelief at your density, which you obviously flaunt wildly.

>>1894526
Well that's what I mean, our Engineer Infantry Squads and such are all educated people. The sorts of tasks that uneducated/unskilled folks can do are pretty much all done better by bots.

>>1894545
>Are you really this dense you dont get WHY we have digging and welding machines?
Because we built construction robots. Because we lacked the population.

>Or do you think we can turn every one of the 20k idiots into engineers
Firstly, you assume they are idiots.

As to rendering them into engineers, yeah I feel it is entirely possible. Given our technology and shit.

>and then MAGICALLY conjure up enough machines to make use of them?
Well, seeing as the dumb labour (along with increasing amounts of the complex jobs) would be taken care of, we'd need far fewer robots and they could be focused into harder / more complex jobs.

As to producing enough robots, that is something we can almost certainly do given that our restraint up until now had been everything but them. However I'd also point out that OP mentioned that we should be trying to get from the town level actions to the nation-state level actions ASAP. No easier way than massive increase in population and industry in my opinion.

>>1894574
I've made my case, I've presented logical arguments and in universe examples. Proof if you want another name. Yet you continue to act like this and I see no reason to prolong a inevitable conclusion: you and I fundamentally disagree and can't resolve this without OP declaring who is right.

>>1894584
>Well that's what I mean, our Engineer Infantry Squads and such are all educated people
Yeah, they can read, write, do math and that is about it. Not exactly a bachelor's degree or anything.

>The sorts of tasks that uneducated/unskilled folks can do are pretty much all done better by bots.
Yeah, and? You say that as if that is some great revelation to me. These roles would be filled better by robots but we would have spare population to fulfil them far more readily at first while they learn skills.

>>1894624
>Yeah, they can read, write, do math and that is about it. Not exactly a bachelor's degree or anything.
They're members of the Engineer Corps we just founded. I'd wager it's a bit more intensive that what you're suggesting.

>Yeah, and? You say that as if that is some great revelation to me. These roles would be filled better by robots but we would have spare population to fulfil them far more readily at first while they learn skills.
I'm pointing out that you're wrong. They're essentially useless to us until they've acquired education/skills that grant them abilities beyond what basic robots can do, because we can shit out robots en masse and at will provided access to resources (which we have, right now).

So when you say folks can be put to work doing things while they develop skills I'm saying that developing skills is the only work they can really do that's valuable to us.

>>1894624
My God. You are one dense motherfucker, aintya? How many people do you think are needed to equal a bulldozer with a 2 ton bucket? How many men are needed to lift a 3 ton section of wall to the third floor? The number of machines needed is one, by the way. Your idea of manpower is ridiculous. Moreover, seeing as we are having trouble educating farmers who have lived with us for years I dont see us educating the jokels in 5 years, let alone one.

As to your "proof", it literally boils down to >>1894546
>I feel
And that is francly not proof. You assume that medieval techniques equal modern construction machines and that is one of the dumbest things I have heard in a long time. You know how long it took to make churches in medieval times? CENTURIES.

>>1893079
>97
In the dead man's hand, you find a mysterious compass. It doesn't point north, but strangely when you think of the "exit" it points toward the exit.

Somewhat. It likes to jiggle around a lot.

In addition to the Compass, he has on his body some items near himself.

A decorative yet sturdy wooden box. On it is carved an unfamiliar language, an image of a man wearing a big white round hat with a small red part on top, and a crescent and star. Inside of it amazingly, you find ammunition for the weapons you are holding!

An inedible golden apple was found in his mouth, evidently he tried to bite it. Its shiny and nice, and made of gold. Sonia says it looks pretty.

An old Fedora and Cigar. Seems to only been smoked lightly.

A sledgehammer with the letters "J. H." on it.

A Wright Bicycles (tm) bicycle.

An empty black pot, seems to be made of crude pig iron.

----

>Keep looking around these boxes
>Explore!
>Go back, we have other priorities.
>Other?

>>1894649
>developing skills is the only work they can really do that's valuable to us
YES, you get it.
>>1894624
You should also get this!

>>1894674
>Keep looking around these boxes

>>1894674
ALSO
>Inspect some of the items further? Closer detail?

>>1894674
>>Explore!
Think about control room, secret chamber, foremans office, power room and other things along this line.

Also try thinking "the best thing for me here".

>>1894674
Inspect items. Don't open but just examine them closely. Then explore.

>>1894693
1 for this
>>1894714
1 for this
>>1894726
1 for this

>>1894649
>They're members of the Engineer Corps we just founded. I'd wager it's a bit more intensive that what you're suggesting.
No, those are the skills they have outside of the training they from the engineering corps. My point is that they aren't highly educated by any means and that the technology we've augmented them with is what is doing a fair bit (if not more than that) of the work.

>I'm pointing out that you're wrong.
Opinion.

>They're essentially useless to us until they've acquired education/skills that grant them abilities beyond what basic robots can do, because we can shit out robots and at will provided access to resources (which we have, right now).
We really can't just spam robots as much as you feel currently and more importantly, these'll be people we receive just as we expand rather than having to create robots in a factory and shit. Plus many of them probably won't want to be researchers or show aptitude for it.

>So when you say folks can be put to work doing things while they develop skills I'm saying that developing skills is the only work they can really do that's valuable to us.
So you are saying that we can't have them cutting up buildings for scrap, digging out foundations and other such simple tasks? Cause those'd be of value to me.

>>1894669
Ahem, fuck you.


>My God. You are one dense motherfucker, ain't ya?
I'd say the same of you.

>How many people do you think are needed to equal a bulldozer with a 2 ton bucket? How many men are needed to lift a 3 ton section of wall to the third floor? The number of machines needed is one, by the way.
For each of those roles? Yeah. Now, a human can do it's part in all those roles and more. Also, we'd need to get the bulldozer up there (and between places) and either supply it with fuel, power or a fairly chunky fissile battery (expensive).

Meanwhile, that massive population of humans in the region (which we will have either way as we expand) can be mobilised with shovels, pickaxes, hatchets, saws and hammers under the supervision of others like our engineer squads or a few robots to do labour who handle complex shit.

>Your idea of manpower is ridiculous. Moreover, seeing as we are having trouble educating farmers who have lived with us for years I don't see us educating the yokels in 5 years, let alone one.
One, your spelling of "yokel" is wrong. Please correct this in future as it annoys me.

Two, we're not having trouble educating those who've been with us for years. You'd know this if you payed attention that they've almost all (a few like farming) been moved from the fields into other areas.


Three, I recognise you now. You are the cunt that thinks the moment someone says "feel" their argument should be disregarded. Because "lol emotion" when it is just a fucking word in the English language which can refer to gut instinct and can be used for variety (something that helps in shit like this) in place of think.

>>1894732
Ill second inspecting and then exploring. Lets move this along.

>>1894707
>Inspect some of the items further?
Examine the Fedora and Cigar, Sledgehammer, and especially the black pot more closely.

Then think "Control Room for the warehouse" and use the compass to find it. Maybe take some concentration drugs to try and cut down on the needle jumping.

>>1894741
Fuck it, when this goes wrong, let it be remembered I said we shouldn't but let's get this show on the road.

Rolled 18 (1d100)

>>1894742
>>1894741
>>1894726
>Inspect the items

Rollan!

>>1894749
Welp we're blind now.

>>1894749
Oh look, it went (fairly) wrong.

>>1894738
Cutting up buildings for scrap is dangerous. Rather than have people do it, it's best to use bots that are more capable of it in the first place and also able to do more on account of a lack of concern for personal (and surrounding personnel's) safety as compared to what people would need.

Building foundations needs to be done to a high standard, elsewise all the rest of the work on the building can easily be rendered null. Best to have bots that have virtually no chance of fucking it up do that.

The folks from the Engineer Corps really ARE educated on top of their augments. If it was the augments doing the work we wouldn't have needed to properly found an engineering corp and built them a building and such.

You're clearly just going to keep on being a contrarian cunt to everyone so nevermind I suppose.

>>1894749
Nothing seems different on the items on closer expection.

You look the compass over it a bit, and see two words have been scratched out, the only letters remaining spelling the word "ear".

You put it up to your ear but don't hear anything.

Other than that, the sledge hammer works fine. Breaks things. The Bicycle works fine, you ride on it. The black pot, is, well, a black pot. And the wooden box still gives you free ammo.

Sonia asks to hold the gold fruit and you decide to give it to her as a gift. It's just some jewelry after all.

Rolled 68, 92, 84 = 244 (3d100)

>>1894749
Not THAT roll, take THESE. One for each item.

Gonna be away again for a while, feel free to fill up the thread with discussion. I'm working very hard to get all the stuff i have to do done for fast turns.


Don't forget to vote:
>Explore more
>Leave and go back to the original goal
>Inspect more random boxes
>Other

>>1894786
>>Leave and go back to the original goal
We have some things we can look at before throwing ourselves into something mysterious full tilt. Let's just mark it on our map and come back to the warehouse when we understand more of what's happening.

>>1894738
By god you just dont give up do you??

How are you so stupid that you think a dude with a shovel is better than a bulldozer?? You must be a liberal arts student or something because the real world is so alien to you it is unreal. As someone who has worked in construction, having machines do the heavy lifting is crucial if you want anything done in a timely manner. Furthermore, the education of basic workers takes YEARS, not to mention somebody who can build a house from start to finish. And this WITHOUT machines?? You are so blinded by ideals its uncanny.

And yes, I am no-useless-morals guy. And you must be the dense motherfucker who has shitposted and pushed for idiotic ideas all this time. By god man, what do you study or do in life? Maybe I can get to you through common fields.

>>1894769
I see we agree on this thing. Glad to see somebody who lives in the real world for a change.

>>1894769
>Cutting up buildings for scrap is dangerous. Rather than have people do it, it's best to use bots that are more capable of it in the first place and also able to do more on account of a lack of concern for personal (and surrounding personnel's) safety as compared to what people would need.
True. Still, it's a very low skill job they could do and would be universal to them.

>Building foundations needs to be done to a high standard, else wise all the rest of the work on the building can easily be rendered null. Best to have bots that have virtually no chance of fucking it up do that.
Aye but any bastard with a shovel can dig a hole, leaving our robots to do the important / precision stuff while they move onto other things.

>The folks from the Engineer Corps really ARE educated on top of their augments. If it was the augments doing the work we wouldn't have needed to properly found an engineering corp and built them a building and such.
And we educated them in a month.

>>1894791
This.

>>1894802
>By god you just dont give up do you??
Again with the double question marks and to answer your question, only when I have a reason to or something better to do.

>How are you so stupid that you think a dude with a shovel is better than a bulldozer?
He isn't. At least for a straight up comparison of their ability to move shit around but when it comes down to it, we are going to have hundreds of people at least and I find it easier to believe that we can throw enough shovels at them than we can produce enough construction robots especially considering our limited ability to move them north for now.

>As someone who has worked in construction, having machines do the heavy lifting is crucial if you want anything done in a timely manner.
And they still will in this case but I see human workers being of major importance to the near future of our nation as we expand into Montana.

>Furthermore, the education of basic workers takes YEARS, not to mention somebody who can build a house from start to finish. And this WITHOUT machines?
I never said without machines. I never even said from start to finish. You are making many assumptions about my position.

Also, our education speed is insane.

>You are so blinded by ideals its uncanny.
I'm sorry, what ideals?

>And yes, I am no-useless-morals guy. And you must be the dense motherfucker who has shitposted and pushed for idiotic ideas all this time.
Probably not.

>By god man, what do you study or do in life? Maybe I can get to you through common fields.
Computing science, games design, physics (aye I'm that anon), chemistry, biology, a bit of music (practical (playing, reading and writing) and historical studies with a focus on Scottish music) and political theory.

I'd also say cakecraft but I fail to see how that'd help establish common grounds.

>>1894899
YOU are the anon who calculated the force of an airwave in the hyperloop concept and the one who discussed rocket carry weights?? I find that hard to believe, seeing as that anon was very sensible yet you are incapable of understanding the difference between ten dudes with shovels and a bulldozer with a 2-ton bucket. The difference between trying to outrun a dude who is miles ahead of you vs taking a shortcut to catch up.

And lets give you the benefit of the doubt, say you are that anon, how would you see the populace used in the first year? What would you build and how, with what and from where? This includes tools, raw materials and educated labor/machines. Go.

As for myself, bachelor in genetics, doing masters in biomedicine. Have worked in construction and woodwork. Been in the military and had paramedic training. So at least in chemistry/biology we should come to a consensus, IF you really are that anon.

>>1894966
>YOU are the anon who calculated the force of an air-wave in the hyper-loop concept and the one who discussed rocket carry weights?
No, I think you've got me confused with the other physics anon. I'm the one who was pissed about the microwave tank but I have discussed rocket carry weights and such in past, so I could be wrong.


>I find that hard to believe, seeing as that anon was very sensible yet you are incapable of understanding the difference between ten dudes with shovels and a bulldozer with a 2-ton bucket. The difference between trying to outrun a dude who is miles ahead of you vs taking a shortcut to catch up.
I understand the difference but the problem is that I fail to see us producing and transporting enough bulldozers. Especially given we'd need many other vehicles too.

>And lets give you the benefit of the doubt, say you are that anon, how would you see the populace used in the first year? What would you build and how, with what and from where? This includes tools, raw materials and educated labour / machines. Go.
Focus would be on restoring a basic road system. A reasonably flat and hard surface is all that'd be needed for robots to move around. So it could be constructed out of rubble, gravel and limited concrete supplies with minimal skill required but a large amount of man / machine power. Alternatively, train tracks and trains. Such things should already exist between pre-war towns and such which we can salvage and repair for raw resources (maybe even a train itself). However this'd require a train or more and thus'd most likely be unused except to connect important areas (such as the ones discussed below).

After that focus would probably be on creating a few industrial sites to reprocess the scrap in the region. Either replicator or conventional depending on how feasible either is. However limited power would be required in either case, however our goal is currently to find a fairly sizeable power source to establish a base at, so chances are that'd allow for such industry short term at the cost of being able to teleport less frequently. Construction would most likely be done using transported parts from Big mt and any remaining local concrete and such.

After this it'd mostly be a matter of expanding the power network, more factories and improving the living standards of the people. Power expansion with the replicators would be a simple matter of mass producing the components for solar arrays. Factories with replicators are self-explanatory. Living standards can easily be improved given the standards in the wastes are fairly low.

This is all assuming we can't locate and restore existing pre-war facilities and secure stocks to augment our efforts.

>As for myself, bachelor in genetics, doing masters in biomedicine. Have worked in construction and woodwork. Been in the military and had paramedic training. So at least in chemistry/biology we should come to a consensus, IF you really are that anon.
Fair enough.

>>1894786
>Leave and go back to the original goal
This isn't the main goal of this mission - mark down the location, we'll be back later without our wife and with a dedicated exploration / science team.

wow thats a lot of arguing. but you guys are forgetting some crucial facts.

firstly, we already have a crapload of tech dealing with learning and memories.

phase one integration is to build a robot staffed hospital near an outpost. this cures 99% of diseases in the area and ensures stable population growth.

phase two is accelerated VR learning.
we can already dialate an individuals perception of time and implant memories. several months later and they are the equivalent of a modern professional.

vehicle mounted replicator units powered by small cold fusion can build basic amenities thereafter.

citizenship for communities based on merit and working to bring themselves up to our level.

we could be nation sized by the end of the next year.

>>1895062
So you are suggesting exactly what I thought you would: traditional industry. Can you really not see how the NCR would be better at this? With all its skilled labor and purpose-built machinery? You are trying to play their game. We will lose at their game. We have to make our own rules and we do this through means nobody else has. That means using replicators to turn rocks into superbots and flying in shielded fortresses to rain fire down on enemy Magino lines.

>>1895315
>we could be nation sized by the end of the next year.
That feels about right to me. Depending on if we can convince towns / tribes to join us and share resources.

Each one that joins willingly is a few dozen more farmers, workers and warriors to secure the region under us. Plus, whatever scrap metal they bring to the table.


We could also look into buying some basic industrial machines and such off the NCR.

>>1895315
Now this is a better idea, however it doesnt adress the fact that although the populace is smart the area they live in is still largely useless to us. And the biggest problem here is time. This could work in 3 years, maybe. Then we still would need to build up sufficient infrastructure. We cant do this in one.

>>1895334
you keep focussing on vertical development when we should be focusing on BOTH horizontal AND vertical development.

90% of the process I describe can be automated by fire-and-forget construction robots that double as com centers and battle platforms. use the behemoth chassis and convert for our purposes. or an airborne variant based on the scout if you want it done more quickly.

2 turns worth of actions to initiate, tops.

>>1895334
>So you are suggesting exactly what I thought you would: traditional industry.
I suggested using replicators as well but they require a large amount of power or fissile material for what I'd be wanting to achieve. Both could be done but it'd take a long time to get that so incredibly small scale conventional industry can fill the gaps in certain areas like concrete and such while we reserve replication for complex and expensive things.

I fail to see what you are misunderstanding so hard as to come to these conclusions.

>Can you really not see how the NCR would be better at this? With all its skilled labor and purpose-built machinery? You are trying to play their game. We will lose at their game.
And again, I disagree since our factories are more efficient than theirs outright and more importantly I fail to see how I am playing their game. Fact is that I just want to get some basic shit up and running in the north before we focus on your insane wunderwaffe.

>We have to make our own rules and we do this through means nobody else has. That means using replicators to turn rocks into super-bots and flying in shielded fortresses to rain fire down on enemy Maginot lines.
Which is lovely, except:

1) WE DON'T HAVE SHIELDS.

2) We don't have anywhere near the power supply needed to sustain such levels of replication.

3) The NCR has artillery pieces that fire two tonne shells something like forty miles. Your "fortresses" would be pummelled out of existence under the fire of dozens of these.

>>1895344
the locals have a greater knowledge of their surroundings than us. And we will be giving them both technical/survival/science skills, and a strong incentive to want to join us.

the solutions they devise to their own problems will be unique, and potentially useful to us. ever new community is a resource both in minds, and more traditional resources surrounding it

>>1894786
>Inspect more random boxes

>>1895354
And this I agree with 100%.

However, I dont think we can achieve the desired effect in anything less than 3 years.

>>1895371
Yes, but again, they will not be able to build up enough in a year.

>>1895362
You are talking about building factories that mostly use raw materials and machine them into goods (see normal industry). What I am saying is that the NCR can make MANY MORE factories than us over the same timeframe. What we need to do is make every last resource count far harder than theirs, this means consolidating power in our capital and using everything to make better tech and industry at home. What I can agree to is >>1895354 as using hightech means to fabricate and not having it rely on us is fine.

What you dont get is that we have the ability to achieve all the flying fortresses and doomsday shields if we focus on it instead of going rural like you want.

>>1895467
>You are talking about building factories that mostly use raw materials and machine them into goods (see normal industry).
To begin with yes because they are easier to build and power.

>What I am saying is that the NCR can make MANY MORE factories than us over the same time-frame. What we need to do is make every last resource count far harder than theirs, this means consolidating power in our capital and using everything to make better tech and industry at home.
They can also make many more tanks, yet we aren't avoiding producing those and instead focusing on making a single miracle tank. Also, I'd argue that your plan of creating a single location of immense value won't work out since it leaves us vulnerable to any super weapons they might develop or have.

Also I feel you are underestimating our ability to industrialise and sabotage the NCR's own efforts.

>What I can agree to is >>1895354 as using hightech means to fabricate and not having it rely on us is fine.
Yeah and I can agree to that too but I want to do more. Because I feel the benefits are very useful and that what he is advising might not achieve a great enough level of conversion and unification of the local population under us.

>What you dont get is that we have the ability to achieve all the flying fortresses and doomsday shields if we focus on it instead of going rural like you want.
How in the hell does industry equal rural to you? The two words are pretty much the antithesis of each other.

As to achieving flying fortresses and such, we do and I'd possibly make use of them but I feel you are placing too much emphasis on dumb shit that can be taken out over universally useful actions. Industry, commerce, population and expansion in general are universally useful.

>>1895635
>To begin with yes because they are easier to build and power.
At that point you will have thrown lots of resources and time at the project (resources we could have used to build more bots, as well as the time to do so) without any gain for us.

>>1895635
>They can also make many more tanks, yet we aren't avoiding producing those and instead focusing on making a single miracle tank. Also, I'd argue that your plan of creating a single location of immense value won't work out since it leaves us vulnerable to any super weapons they might develop or have.
And this is exactly my point. We can never (discounting long LONG term) build as many war machines as the NCR can in the same amount of time. Thus we have to build better things than the NCR. If the miracle tank can take out 10 of their tanks and continue on, its a success. (Think Tiger tank)

>>1895635
>Also I feel you are underestimating our ability to industrialise and sabotage the NCR's own efforts.
Seeing as we needed a YEAR to build the robotics factory and another year to build the necessary tings for the second construction action, I dont see how we will do it so much faster in a place without infrastructure that is far away from home (so you have to portal, meaning only small objects can get there). As to sabotage, with how large the NCR is I dont see us takig out a few factories will hurt them as much as you "feel" it will.

>>1895635
>Yeah and I can agree to that too but I want to do more. Because I feel the benefits are very useful and that what he is advising might not achieve a great enough level of conversion and unification of the local population under us.
Yet that plan is doable and will run in the background, whereas you want us to waste dozens of turns on this shit.

>>1895635
>How in the hell does industry equal rural to you? The two words are pretty much the antithesis of each other.
You are talking about turning farmland into basic factories. I am saying get rid of factories and go straight to matter conversion for infinite possibilities and FAR superior speed. And this does not seems miles ahead of what you propose??

>>1895635
>As to achieving flying fortresses and such, we do and I'd possibly make use of them but I feel you are placing too much emphasis on dumb shit that can be taken out over universally useful actions. Industry, commerce, population and expansion in general are universally useful.
And that "dumb shit" is the only reason we are as far as we are. Without replicators early on, without advanced bots or alien batteries we would be a shitty satellite of the NCR. Advancing technology is the only way we can further ourselves in any meaningful way. By applying this tech to new areas bypasses the "industrial revolution" you are trying to push for and allows us to better use the area and its people. This is why >>1895354 has it correct that a fire and forget method is best. A hightech solution that autonomously sets up further replicators afield. AND, if we figure out compact fusion and portable rocks-to-robots the multiplier goes up dramatically.

File: Flying City.jpg (98 KB, 1280x960)

98 KB JPG

As an example of what we could do by going further high-tech:

Figure out how the mothership works (after relocating the chinese, possibly into the NV area, alternatively Newberry close by) and apply the knowledge to NW in addition to the Miles Capital Laser project. Incorporate flying engines and the mothership shields into the city, reinforce the structure. Have it be our own mothership-equivalent to intimidate, deter and assault our enemies.

Turn BigMT into a literal fortress. Work out the mountain AA cover Miles talked about and add shields. Build underground and secure everything with shielded areas, turrets and traps. Locate all our power production, mantle drill and large-scale replicator operations underneath the mountain. Go underground and expand there. Fortify the desert with traps, sensors and turrets.

This leaves us with a highly fortified central location (also nuke proof, since shooting down lots of missiles is a thing) with the option of deploying the Fortress City to areas we need heavy security at. Connect everything up with portals and we can literally project force anywhere and everywhere, regardless of terrain, enemy positions and local developement. This would also aid in locking down areas, since Airpower can cover a wide area.

>>1894791
>>1894833
>>1895255
LOCKED

----

As much as this place tickles your imagination and excitement, it won't just walk up and leave.

Right?

You DO have to find a power source for your portal anyway, and even if one was here, who knows how long it would take to find it. Especially since these guys were lost.

So taking the spoils you currently have, you exit. And go off in search of what you wish to find.

---

Back at the UFO, it seems to be working again. You swear its NOT where you left it, but you were able to find it oddly enough using the compass.

CHOOSE:
>Explore some of the previously known occupied military bases
>Keep looking for other un-occupied military bases
>You remember Montanna had coal mines, a lot before and after the war. Maybe there's a coal fired power plant around here?
>Take the skies!

>>1897692
>>Explore some of the previously known occupied military bases
>>Keep looking for other un-occupied military bases
The goal being to find the most suitable location. Preferrably a bunker or an airfield. Use the scoutship.

>>1897710
Support


Tbh, I think we need to take over the biggest local populated settlement. We need to expand fast and aggressively.

>>1897732
Yes but again, that just gives us manpower. Something we have no real use for. If we can get an automated replicator set up and and VR pods brought in to educate them, they could be useful in a few years but we get no immediate gain from them. Getting an airforce base allows for all that plus the immediate gain of flying tech and a securable base.

>>1897710
Supporting as well.

>>1897692
>You remember Montanna had coal mines, a lot before and after the war. Maybe there's a coal fired power plant around here?
We need power to build the teleporter to link back to Big MT

>>1897754
Coal is so bad it hurts. If we really cant find a nuclear generator we portal power from back home until we can build a generator there.

Can someone tell me what all that argument earlier was about?

>>1897792
One anon wanted to try and build up traditional industry in Montana. This would mean we have to spend time and money on something the NCR does far better. Another anon suggested we use fire-and-forget replicators and VR pods to passively build up the area while we focus on our capital/NV area. This means we sidestep building traditional industry and go for hightech solutions.

Basically low tech industrial industry (and dudes with shovels) VS high tech replicators and VR education (passively so we can focus on other things while it goes on in the background).

>>1897796
That doesn't make sense, why is there a choice between them when it seems logical that we would first do the low tech industry so we can have the manpower to quickly upgrade the industry into high tech?
Also fire-and-forget replicators are a horrible idea, the replication tech is way too valuable to trow around so haphazardly.

>>1897710
>>1897732
>>1897751
Roll me 3 1d100s!

>>1897800
The point is that we spent a year making our robot factory. We have the ability to sidestep traditional industry and go straight for high tech. If we go the long route, we lose the advantage over the NCR who industrializes far quicker.

As to the replicators, it was more a mobile base (maybe behemoth chassis) with some protection that would move and build things as needed. Add a few VR pods to educate and make engineers/soldiers on site and with the replicator making machines as needed we can have it chugging in the background with a higher level of efficiency than regular industry (which requires MANY factories before we can diversify reasonably (one for trucks, one for construction machines, one for bots, one for building materials and so on).

Rolled 74 (1d100)

>>1897802
Hoping for NOT1

>>1897808
Ill take it

>>1897805
>The point is that we spent a year making our robot factory. We have the ability to sidestep traditional industry and go straight for high tech. If we go the long route, we lose the advantage over the NCR who industrializes far quicker.
Still not getting the point, why not go low tech industry to build the robot factory so we can upgrade into high tech industry?
>As to the replicators, it was more a mobile base (maybe behemoth chassis) with some protection that would move and build things as needed.
Ah, that's fine then, hell i proposed such a thing in a previous thread.

>>1897810
>Still not getting the point, why not go low tech industry to build the robot factory so we can upgrade into high tech industry?
It took a year for us to build a robot factory in the heart of our industrial complex. I dont see how we can get anywhere as fast with no infrastructure and no skilled labor.

>>1897810
>Ah, that's fine then, hell i proposed such a thing in a previous thread.
And that I am fine with as well. Plus it allows us the flexibility that regular industry doesnt (we can build anything WITHOUT the need for a specific factory to make the prequisite materials - THIS s the advantage here).

>>1897810
Also roll please

Rolled 58 (1d100)

>>1897802
>>1897821
I really didn't want to man.

Rolled 10 (1d100)

>>1897802
Will you take a second?

>>1897828
Obviously not...

Rolled 10 (1d100)

>>1897802
better results?

>>1897828
>>1897837
Please stop.

>>1897837
kek, we are semi fucked

>>1897846
Nah, 74 overrides the 10s.

>>1897854
Yes, but only one of them is mine :)

Back to fucked

>>1897854
Unless QM wants best of 3. Then no biggie, indeed

>>1897860
I am confident QM uses best of 3, with the only exceptions being crits which can apply at any point i believe.

>>1897409
>At that point you will have thrown lots of resources and time at the project (resources we could have used to build more bots, as well as the time to do so) without any gain for us.
"Without any gain for us" is literally impossible. I am talking about establishing industry, infrastructure and getting a entire state under our belt. Also, resources ain't the limiting factor (factory size is) in how many robots we can produce so trust me when I say that this'd not effect that.

>And this is exactly my point. We can never (discounting long LONG term) build as many war machines as the NCR can in the same amount of time. Thus we have to build better things than the NCR. If the miracle tank can take out 10 of their tanks and continue on, its a success. (Think Tiger tank)
Oh yes, the tiger tank: a wunderwaffe; that was beaten, repeatedly, consistently, efficiently and reliably by sheer numbers of Sherman. Not to mention their vulnerability to aircraft fire.

Also, why in gods name do you plan on fighting the NCR any time sooner than very, very, very long term? The amount of things we should do before fighting them is insane and I'd argue we'll only be ready in 4 years at least if not 6.

>Seeing as we needed a YEAR to build the robotics factory and another year to build the necessary tings for the second construction action, I don't see how we will do it so much faster in a place without infrastructure that is far away from home (so you have to portal, meaning only small objects can get there).
Well, seeing as I don't intend to build the robotics factory that is a pointless comparison. Especially since a large portion of the construction time was because we needed to get the AI's which, surprise surprise, we have. Also because it was an entirely automated factory which greatly increases the complexity.

>As to sabotage, with how large the NCR is I don't see us taking out a few factories will hurt them as much as you "feel" it will.
That is because you over estimate their industrial capacity and growth rate while underestimating our ability to do damage. We have stealthy robots for sabotage and tunnellers for transport. We can mass produce high explosives. We could level entire factories but that is inefficient.

Fact is we'd want to just break a few things here and there. For example: if we were to interrupt the fuel supply of the NCR's steel mills, then their furnaces would cool, contract and crack. Meaning they'd have to replace them entirely. This, could be done without any major investment besides sending a robot in at night to hack whatever is controlling the fuel feed or killing a few of the night crew if it is not automated as I'd expect.

In the case of actual factories it'd just be a matter of breaking machines or placing explosive charges to detonate during working hours (maximises the damage by killing workers and delaying production an additional few hours) or depending on the materials in use contaminating or destroying them.

>>1897879
>Yet that plan is doable and will run in the background, whereas you want us to waste dozens of turns on this shit.
How in the hell do you consider establishing industry and infrastructure a waste? How in the hell do you think it'll take dozens of turns? It'd mostly be a matter of setting up a small industrial site capable of producing anything it needs to maintain and expand. Then just letting it get to work.

>You are talking about turning farmland into basic factories.
LIKE FUCK I AM. I am talking about getting a small set of basic factories set up so we can begin creation of replication industry when we have enough POWER to sustain such a thing.

>I am saying get rid of factories and go straight to matter conversion for infinite possibilities and FAR superior speed. And this does not seems miles ahead of what you propose??
It does seem miles ahead. So does the fucking energy cost to run the bloody things! Not to mention the inability to salvage for parts or intact factories in the region to fulfil the role thus slowing down their set up even further.

>And that "dumb shit" is the only reason we are as far as we are. Without replicators early on, without advanced bots or alien batteries we would be a shitty satellite of the NCR. Advancing technology is the only way we can further ourselves in any meaningful way. By applying this tech to new areas bypasses the "industrial revolution" you are trying to push for and allows us to better use the area and its people.
Except those aren't dumb things. Your giant flying wunderwaffe? A massive and useless target since we'd never be able to have more than one if you want it to be as powerful as you think it'd be and so deploying it would sap our defensive strength insanely while not deploying it would leave us without an offensive weapon thanks to your under-investment in actual expansion.

>This is why >>1895354 has it correct that a fire and forget method is best. A high-tech solution that autonomously sets up further replicators afield. AND, if we figure out compact fusion and portable rocks-to-robots the multiplier goes up dramatically.
Except what he is advising is going to be unable to get the region under our control. It'll make us popular with the locals sure but why would they give up sovereignty to the random fucks who set up a wee outpost 5 miles away and then more or less fucked off? Not to mention the vulnerability of these giant walking replicator platforms to run into something they can't deal with and the outposts themselves.

>>1897618
>Figure out how the mothership works (after relocating the Chinese, possibly into the NV area, alternatively Newberry close by) and apply the knowledge to NW in addition to the Miles Capital Laser project. Incorporate flying engines and the mothership shields into the city, reinforce the structure. Have it be our own mothership-equivalent to intimidate, deter and assault our enemies.
I've already addressed how the NCR may neutralise such a craft. Especially since shields have been beaten by us before and OP'd probably give them that.

>This leaves us with a highly fortified central location (also nuke proof, since shooting down lots of missiles is a thing) with the option of deploying the Fortress City to areas we need heavy security at. Connect everything up with portals and we can literally project force anywhere and everywhere, regardless of terrain, enemy positions and local development.
Which is lovely until you get shot the fuck down by the NCR or by MLA magic or by some super weapon of the BOS when you deploy through the portal which'd also be impressive since you are talking about a fuck off huge craft so the energy costs of deploying it anywhere would be too high. Not to mention the physical size of the actual teleporter.

>This would also aid in locking down areas, since Airpower can cover a wide area.
Which is all the more reason to not focus on creating some massively over fortified region and instead focus on taking land and defending it with air drones since we can easily do so.

>>1897792
I want to create a few factories in the north to allow for basic industry quickly and cheaply in regards to power since that'll be a major limitation for us unlike in Big mt where it was manpower. Then move onto replication industry as we gain enough power to sustain it.

Yellow wants to jump into the region and immediately set up replicator industry without any regard to just how expensive to run it is.

The third side, the fire-and-forget guy, advises creating small outposts which have replication capacity and VR education equipment. I feel that this isn't a realistic system thanks to the power needs of both these activities along with the other needs (all of our current VR requires the people are debrained for example) such as security. Meaning what he is advising would be far from a small outpost, although the concept does hold major potential if developed and I would consider it a decent start.

>>1897796
Mate, please stop misrepresenting what I am advising.

>>1897900
>I want to create a few factories in the north to allow for basic industry quickly and cheaply in regards to power since that'll be a major limitation for us unlike in Big mt where it was manpower.
You forget that when we researched Cold fusion we unlocked how to build small-medium reactors which can be constructed quickly, i agree with you that we will first need to get some low tech industry but i don't believe we'll stay low tech for long enough that we build a few normal factories.
Here's the post detailing more >>1848796
>(all of our current VR requires the people are debrained for example)
They do? Can you show me the post?

>>1897900
>Mate, please stop misrepresenting what I am advising.
What are you advising anyway? What kind of low tech industry do you wanna set up?

>>1897920
>You forget that when we researched Cold fusion we unlocked how to build small-medium reactors which can be constructed quickly
We'd need a water supply which may be hard to achieve depending on our luck. Still I see what you mean but until you have the industry to produce them, you'd need to bring them north from Big mt which could be problematic.

>i agree with you that we will first need to get some low tech industry but i don't believe we'll stay low tech for long enough that we build a few normal factories.
Aye which is why I also want to explore the region for salvageable pre-war ones. Plus I only want to build tiny ones to allow us to get some basic things running while we get our replicators up and running.

>They do? Can you show me the post?
I can't remember the thread for the life of me where we researched them and I swear that the situation might've changed since then but I'd rather just wait for OP to confirm / deny since that's the final word either way.

>>1897921
Hexcrete and possibly some scrap refining since that'd be expensive to ship north. That way replication can be reserved for complex things like robots, electronics and such.

Still, we'll see how big of a power supply we get and what we can sustain off it before I'll make any definite decisions since replication might be entirely possible as our opening move but I doubt that any one base we will find would have such a power supply.

>>1897958
>We'd need a water supply which may be hard to achieve depending on our luck.
Doesn't Montana have snow? And is also not a desert so water is more common there?
>Still I see what you mean but until you have the industry to produce them, you'd need to bring them north from Big mt which could be problematic.
I don't understand this, what would i need to bring from BigMT besides tools and a few materials we can't get from Montana?
>Aye which is why I also want to explore the region for salvageable pre-war ones. Plus I only want to build tiny ones to allow us to get some basic things running while we get our replicators up and running.
>Hexcrete and possibly some scrap refining since that'd be expensive to ship north. That way replication can be reserved for complex things like robots, electronics and such.
That's certainly acceptable, don't see a reason to have a massive argument about it.

>>1897969
>Doesn't Montana have snow?
True. Still though, that'd require you shovelled snow in constantly or had a system to do so.

>And is also not a desert so water is more common there?
True as well but it doesn't help if the military bases we can secure aren't near water and shit. Still, I do believe you have a good point.

>I don't understand this, what would i need to bring from BigMT besides tools and a few materials we can't get from Montana?
Well I'd imagine that a cold fusion reactor is something you need good quality parts for. So chances are that you'd be unable to assemble it in Montana from local shit without a replicator which in turn would require power and a de-materialisation chamber or a fair amount of fissile. So without sufficient local industry + power I get the feeling you'd be best off just shipping them up north whole or in parts.

Seriously, without OP to chime in on how easily we can make them from scrap it's hard to say but I get the feeling that this is something we'd need to teleport, transport or replicate unless we get lucky in regards to pre-war factories or we build a bit more additional industrial capacity. Although I suppose shifting a squad of construction robots north or something might make it a non-issue...

>That's certainly acceptable, don't see a reason to have a massive argument about it.
Because I wasn't exactly giving full detail last night. Seeing as it was like 5 / 6 AM towards the end.

>>1898000
>Well I'd imagine that a cold fusion reactor is something you need good quality parts for. So chances are that you'd be unable to assemble it in Montana from local shit without a replicator which in turn would require power and a de-materialisation chamber or a fair amount of fissile. So without sufficient local industry + power I get the feeling you'd be best off just shipping them up north whole or in parts.
It's true that it will need some quality parts but i think a cold fusion of small size won't demand much of those, so teleporting in quality parts won't be a problem.

>>1898014
If that works out to be the case, then great but I can't imagine the words fusion and easy to build ever being connected to be frank.

>>1897828
>>1897837
>Double 10s
Neat. Time for fun.

>>1898181
Tits.

>>1898000
And captain retarded strikes again.

>>1898234
doubles give Good fun. with the 74, we should have a pretty good result.

Rolled 33 (1d100)

>>1897802

>>1898271
If it was a double 55 Id be glad but two 10s? Shit is about to hit the fan.

>>1898438
OR, absolutely nothing will happen.

>>1901123
Also, seeing as we are at thread 31, did we get a boon?

>>1901210
OP, changed the rules. Now we get a free boon every in game year.

>>1901719
And let me guess, the year is full when he says it is?

Oh boy...

This is why the concept of boons as currency is bad. When we are dependent on boons to progress in any meaningful way (replicators and fusion tech) it leaves us at a gate only QM can open, meaning that despite player actions some things are locked away until QM deems it "balanced" enough to give it to us (although such balancing can be achieved in other ways, especially seeing as the NCR is already Shrek-tier). The only two exceptions would be the construction anon with his hexcrete boon (which QM took away pretty soon) and my nuclear one (which is behind a poorly-explained pay wall of energy cost now).

So basically the railroad tracks keep on going farther and farther.

Thanks for your patients anons, I moved out of my apartment the last two days for the better I feel.

Today I am less busy, so more updates for sure!

Exploring the other military bases, you remember the Brotherhood of Steel Base and the other base filled with armed men.

Going on foot to investigate these from a closer distance.

The Brotherhood here definitely seem to work more with locals, akin to the Midwestern Brotherhood, as you spot trade outposts and people with Brahmin wagons and small villages nearby.

The other outpost you previously found on closer inspection must be either mercenaries or soldiers, rather than raiders. Mostly the lack of skulls, corpses, and actual uniforms and a flag gives them away. Not a flag you've seen before.

You DO find an abandoned military base with the generator you need to sustain the portal indefinitely, as well as some other small buildings. It needs repairs, but with your skill and calling in reinforcements it can be done.
>Suitable base found. Kind of small, rather empty, needs work, but it will work

You also find something. . .strange.

From the air, you thought it was just regular tire or tread tracks of some vehicle. On closer inspect you find they are tire tracks.

But each of the tracks is the size of two houses put side by side. It was as if someone decided to drive an oversized car over the wasteland here.

---

You are nearing the end of the month, you can choose to pursue the tracks or focus on establishing a base or investingating the other bases.

>>1901726
eh.... a year is about 12 turns give it or take.

Boons are not something we should depend on or need to advance. Replication tech could have been unlocked other ways, like getting the tech from Sierra Madre earlier, working with Elijah, going on a thought-out offensive instead of doing one-man hero action or when OP prompted the first time how we dealt with Sierra Madre situation, chosen the most safe option (ie. we killed Elijah)

Or we could have gone other way, maybe by healing the think-tank and re-discovering the tech again. Probably a long arduous road.

>>1901738
There are definitely ways to get stuff which is hard to get that don't involve boons, as mentioned. Sometimes its not very obvious, but you can also spend actions to try and find these not very obvious paths.

>>1901735
Lets go with abandoned military base. We just need the teleporter to send in materials and bots.

Can we pursue the tracks later on?

>>1901735
>CHOOSE
Focus on base building
Follow the giant tracks
Investigate (murderize/take over?) the other bases.

>>1901740
Of course, doesn't look like they are going anywhere.

>>1901742

Focus on base building.

We need to setup a strong foothold before we start dealing with other factions in case they become hostile if they learn what we are here for.

What is near the abandoned military base or do we need to spend a dedicated scouting action to survey the surroundings?

>>1901742
>base building

Let's set up shop before we start expanding.

QM how much power is available? Just enough for the portal or is there spare energy?

>>1901742
>Focus on base building

>>1901743
ALL other locations are taken? No airfield/airport of any kind (raiders are no problem to kill)?

How big of a generator does the tiny base have and what is it exactly?

>>1901739
The issue here is that we dont know what you know. In situations where "Hey, we need that McGuffin to get the ZAX working." I completely agree, these things should not be gotten easily but if I have to go on a crusade across the internet before you let be get a chance to remove replicator requirements it leaves be thinking the only way to get the tech is to either pressure you relentlessly (as you have noticed) or hoping for a boon.

>>1901835
>thinking that pressuring the QM will work.

You could try that, or you could try combining critical thinking skills with basic empathy.

Or just accept that sometimes there is no magic bullet solution and work with what you have.

Seriously dude, just having limited replicator technology is a gigantic advantage.

Your constant complaints about railroading don't "pressure" the QM to give us massively unbalanced tech any more than bitching about a rules interpretation "forces" a tabletop GM to allow a particularly broken build. What it does do is showcase your inability to cooperate.

Fucks sake man, have you never encountered an obstacle or challenge? Just work around it.

>>1901744
>>1901754
>>1901756
You decide to focus on the military base you found. This one is heavily irradiated due to bombs and a few molten generators gone haywire, unsuitable for any persons of low radiation tolerance, as evidenced by the dead raiders. Luckily you and your crew are no such people.

After executing the Ghouls you come to a pleasant surprise. This seems to have a single working Cold Fusion generator! You are happy to find the reactor and begin fixing it, using the information you obtained from the more numerous ones you obtained in the Sierra Madre

It turns out you weren't the first visitors here in a while either. According to the terminal's someone WAS here a while ago, and they observed some files mostly on the generator vitals. However strangely, it doesn't look like the accessed the blueprints even though they were here. You wonder who it is. It'd have to be someone with at least standard radiation gear.

You start building a portal communications device while Sonia starts helping to contain some of the radioactive waste, soon you will have small repair bots and men in exoarmor coming in to rebuild the military base, perhaps build a secondary town away from here. These will take actions, but hey, its a new front for your nation!

---

>con't

reposting weapon ideas for consideration and discussion.

>anti-rad gun

weaponized rad absorption plant seeds injected with super growth and ultra effective fertalizer compounds. seed walls are designed to split after impacting a target much like hollow point bullets. the seed grows absorbing rads from a subject, then explodes due to self agitation.

>Thirst Annihilator

a low speed gauss cannon accelerating a mix of ferrofluid and weaponized nuka-cola quantum. magnetizing the mix improves its viscosity and hopefully allows it to cling to metallic surfaces before it explodes like a mini-nuke.

>The hot mess (sledge)

two saturnine drills attached to a sturdy motor and burners. the burners heat the drills to red hot and the motor spins them in opposite directions. its essentially a burning drill sledge.

>(axe version)

two industrial sized circular saturnine saw blades with motors on the end of a pole. burners in the middle heat the saw blades that spin parallel to each other in opposite directions.

>dreamweaver

a pair of unassuming leather gloves with capillaries that dispense the powerful paralytic from our knockout gun.

>midas nightmare
a power fist with a micro replicator turns anything hit into hydrogen.

thats all for now.

>>1901902
>You could try that, or you could try combining critical thinking skills with basic empathy.
Despite having shown the actual processes behind nuclear fusion, as well as having proposed ways to allow players to contribute more I have been stonewalled. In fact, doing a few basic calculations you will come to a realization that anything less than fusion would actually never be enough to allow for replication at the scale we have (discounting the things I want to do).

>>1901902
>Seriously dude, just having limited replicator technology is a gigantic advantage.
Absolutely and if that was as far as it goes I would shut my piehole a lot more often. However, as it stands, we know it can go A LOT farther (Elijah) and us, with literally the BEST science center as well as the place where the replicator where made at, not being able to go there is infuriating, because its not about us not doing enough but QM not allowing it. I dont want us to have magic bullets, I want us to be able to get the same magic bullets others have on the same grounds, not to jump through 12 hoops for them.

>>1901902
>Your constant complaints about railroading don't "pressure" the QM
I dont expect him to fold willy-nilly, however I do want him to think about how he implements tech and what barriers he places in our way. I am still waiting for the Indiana Jones warehouse to be filled with mosters when we return.

>>1901929
What base is it if it has cold fusion? Anything of note in the basement? How much power does it produce?

>>1901937
>anti-rad gun
If the seed can grow that quick, pretty neat, if situational.

>>1901937
>Thirst Annihilator
Why not just a mininuke with a magnet? Far easier and more reliable. Also no spillage.

>>1901937
>The hot mess
Proton axes are better imo, Or just saturnite axes. Same goes for the axe version. No need to cook them if they are already in pieces.

>>1901937
>dreamweaver
IF it goes through the skin in a reliable and fast fashion it is good for stealth/spy characters, otherwise very situational.

>>1901937
>midas nightmare
Cool concept, VERY expensive in terms of energy and not that useful considering you could have it shoot disintegration bullets or a disintegrator boom on touch (alien tech).

Rolled 25 (1d100)

>>1901961
Hmmm

>>1901978
the anti rad gun is for dealing with super mutants, ghouls, centaurs, SM behemoths and the like.

the thirst Annihilator would potentially hit harder than a mini nuke. the pistol version hits like a mini nuke. a rifle version could be developed that uses cryo tech to freeze WNCQ and fires it with magnetism (if mixed with ferro fluid) or compressed air if not. its essentially a much, much lighter mini nuke.

either hot mess variant exists to provide very strong melee options that benefit from the pyromaniac perk. plus they are terrifying as hell. and I like the name

yeah, its meant to be situational. but in the right situation the dreamweaver could be devastating.

I agree about the proton axes, but it feels like we could do better versus power armor. perhaps anti-material sniper rounds with piezo-electric ceramic plates designed to cause an EMP on compression?

An electrified protonic inversion blade?

Autorfire Mini-missle rifles?

the EMC gauss minigun?

hell, perhaps we can condense an EMP field into a type of energy blade.

>>1902075
Any piezo electrics in a bullet wont have the potential to do anything big. I think to deal with armour and the like, we should just work on smaller faster bullets. Progress down the gauss tech tree for the armour penetration.

>>1901961
It appears to have been a supplementary emergency power station, in the event of a power outage this was to come online.

It did. But the robots that activated to tend it either were killed off over the centuries or driven mad like a lot of machines do after so long. As with most things, Old World stuf was slated to last for centuries, but few people actually anticipated a need to make them run for centuries.

The basement is mostly flooded with nuclear waste and irradiated wildlife like carniverous plants. Sonia is dealing with them.

>>1902112
QM, are you dead again?

So now that we have a Montana base, let's talk about what our first actions in Montana should be.
I believe we should begin by scouting settlements and strong factions, then we can offer protection to settlements that are weak an prone to being raided, after gaining their trust and gratitude we offer them better education and luxuries in exchange for them joining us.

>>1902710
I think we should secure the base we have first, bring in a bunch of bots, couple bastions to secure the perimiter, set up a teleporter pad first.

Then we find a settlement of normal people, find the nearest raider camp, and lend a very generous helping hand in getting rid of threats.

Also bring in cheap food and meds if they need it.

>>1902756
>I think we should secure the base we have first, bring in a bunch of bots, couple bastions to secure the perimiter, set up a teleporter pad first.
Well of course, that goes without saying.

>>1902710
medicine, clinic, and food are phase 1
better security and training are phase 2
full social and technological integration is phase 3

>>1902962
Hopefully we can make use of them productively before we reach phase 3.

Obvious exports would be scrap, food and fissile. However if we can find, repair and power pre-war factories in the region, we might be able to produce limited amounts of whatever goods they'd have produced or we might re-purpose them to produce other things we need like robots, weapons or other such goods.


Still, this'll get us a large population boost assuming we can convince these towns / villages to join us if nothing else.

>>1903009
Include air conditioning in phase 1 but only for the town leader. They will be scrambling to get to level 3

>>1902962
Speaking of training.

Here's my proposal

High Int/Per scientists/engineer/technician training

High Agi/Per sniper training

High Str/End Shock trooper training

High Charisma Mercantile training

Etc. etc.

>>1902962
I think phase 1 and 2 should switch places.

>>1903100
Food stuffs and medicines would be more likely to be accepted off the bat than training.Once they see the fruits of our techniques, then they would be more inclined to learn more.

As for Sonia.

This outing seems to have been exactly what she needed. It's been a while since you've seen her so happy. And excited. And touchy.

And wanting to make up for all that time spent away.

She ended up literally leaping on you and you're pretty sure you spent the whole two days doing some of the most freaky depravities with, to, and done by, her. Stuff that makes even Joanna blush.

It scares you to think if Unity ever saw this then Sam might have seen this. . .you hope she hasn't. . .

---

After washing off all the oil, wax, and other various fluids from your bodies, and work out the soreness in Sonia's joints from locked positions, you both return to work as you send in robots and some of your ghoulish and super mutant allies to restore the base.

>BIG MT
https://pastebin.com/jAXYFRB1

>THE NURSERY
https://pastebin.com/ic3ac1xL

>MONTANNA
https://pastebin.com/hNDfikF9

The US outpost has not yet been fully scouted nor have the prototypes been investigated. When that happens I will update stats for it.

>>1847502
The Slaves have been purchased and are arriving this turn, you may return home to speak to them if you wish. You have purchased roughly 272 of them worth of weapons, including the two supposed psychic young adults roughly aged 16 and 19.

Metal has been scavened from the divide, and has already replenished what we spent on the weapons.

SPI says that about this turn her mission should return, when they do you will recieve an update at least by next turn.

Cold Fusion has been researched! You have an average grasp of the technology, and can build more of the variant from the Divide from small to large. Just add water.

You have researched the bioplants.

---

ALERT!
-The NCR's founding day is in two turns, marking the start of a new year.
-Sam's training is almost finish. You hear she's chosen to take the form of a 17 year old (it's been six years since she was born)

NEW TURN!

4 Action Cap.

Available Actions: Civilian, Construction, Military, Research, ZAX, Hero
+Robotic Research does not count toward cap.
+Biological Research does not count toward cap
>>>>>Turn: 119

>>1903132

>HERO
- Date
- Help with integration of new citizens
- Do a walking tour of New Washington and talk to our current citizens about their problems / wants

>CIV
Integrate the new slaves we bought. Ensure that they have houses, a copy of our book and understand the ways of our nation. Link a few former slaves with a current citizen 'buddy' to help them.

>CONSTRUCT
big cold Fusion reactor under NW
>construct 2
big cold Fusion reactor under NW

>robo-RESEARCH
Advanced processor cores-.

>ZAX RESEARCH
MLA hover cycle thing plans, but average

>BIOLOGICAL RESEARCH
Study the BoS augments and devise ways of improving them

>PASSIVE PRODUCTION
Assaultron mass production model

>>1903132
>HERO
- Date
- Help with integration of new citizens
- Do a walking tour of New Washington and talk to our current citizens about their problems / wants
- Deliver MLA hovercraft blueprint

>CIV
Integrate the new slaves we bought. Ensure that they have houses, a copy of our book and understand the ways of our nation. Link a few former slaves with a current citizen 'buddy' to help them.

>CONSTRUCT
Brain Vault

>Military.
Fortify our Montana outpost with robots and turrets.

>robo-RESEARCH
Advanced processor cores.

>ZAX RESEARCH
MLA hovercraft blueprint.

>BIOLOGICAL RESEARCH
Study the BoS augments and devise ways of improving them

>PASSIVE PRODUCTION
Assaultron mass production model.

>>1903161
Aw fuck i deleted the wrong construction action.
Replace Brain vault with
>big cold Fusion reactor under NW

>>1903161
>Advanced processor cores.
Why? With Montana secured we are about to get a good stream of raider brains to do that stuff...

>MLA hovercraft blueprint.
I swear we did these already but yeah, we need to deliver them.

>>1903164
>big cold Fusion reactor under NW
This'll take too long and I fail to see why you are trying to use the thing that consumes water in a desert especially when such an action could be used in Montana or more properly in Big mt to start constructing the underground farms.


Need sleep, must go.

>>1903161
>>1903164
sure, support this then.

>>1903177
>Why? With Montana secured we are about to get a good stream of raider brains to do that stuff...
I dunno, another anon wanted it, i wanted to research how to make our robots cheaper.
>This'll take too long and I fail to see why you are trying to use the thing that consumes water in a desert especially when such an action could be used in Montana or more properly in Big mt to start constructing the underground farms.
Because we need power and Cold fusion doesn't need drinkable water so we could use Irradiated water from the divide or Salt water from Trona.

Unfinished projects:
The Maximum Security Brain Vault (HUGE) (roughly 1/6-9 turns)
The Underground Farms (Large) (roughly 0/2-3turns)

>>1903132
>HERO

return home and help integrate the new arrivals. Talk to our psychics, both so they are all getting along and about research.
throw a party for Sam

>construction/civilian/military (?)

send a robot and specialist group through to begin scouting and repairing MONTANA

>Construction 2

heavy weapons for the MLA

>Research

tiny cold fusion from MONTANA

>Robotic research

improve on the Brotherhood Behemoth designs. Make one for combat, and one for heavy traditional/replicator construction.

>Biological research

Anti-rad weapons made from the Anti-rad plants

>>1903218
>heavy weapons for the MLA
Why do we need to make these?
>tiny cold fusion from MONTANA
Why do we need to research this?
>improve on the Brotherhood Behemoth designs. Make one for combat, and one for heavy traditional/replicator construction.
We don't have the Behemoth design yet.

>>1903218
I really question the viability of shooting seeds as a weapon.

For One, It would probably just tear through the target and leave the other side or be destroyed by the forces that launch it from th egun

Second, I don't think mutants have much radiation in their bodies most of the time. Glowing ones, yes, but regular super mutants and ghouls don't even register on a geiger counter. 0 rads to feed off of.

>>1903253
the plants are able to grow normally in the background radiation of the wasteland.

and some seed pods can survive pressures FAR in excess of those placed on bullets. as for over penertation? make the seed pod frangible on impact. childsplay for Dianna.

ghouls both normal and glowing, centaurs, and supermutants all have at least some radioactive material in them. just because they dont deal radiation damage doesnt mean they havent been irradiated. hell pretty much everything in the wasteland has some level of rads even if it isnt enough to cause rad damage.

>>1903227
because it will help them fight the NCR to a stalemate

so we can put cold fusion inside mobile bases or large robots

I thought we did? or is that payment for the glider?

>>1903293
>because it will help them fight the NCR to a stalemate
I don't see a reason to make more weapons for the MLA.
>so we can put cold fusion inside mobile bases or large robots
Why not use regular fusion cores/batteries?
>I thought we did? or is that payment for the glider?
Payment for the glider, which we have to research this turn.

>>1903291
I don't think they grow that well, or a at all in background radiation. And they need water and such that they wouldn't have in a body.

can't make the seed pod too small though. You aren't going to get seeds smaller than a pine nut, so seed pods would be pretty big.

Most have very low levels of radiation, but not enough to be significant when growing the seeds.

The Radiation Plants, at least the Shi Variant, are very particular and picky. According to NCR newspapers, not only do they require radiation to grow, but for decades they would only grow due to something in the Shi Soil that would allow them too, and their spread was made difficult.

The variant you have is the NCR modified variant which is able to bypass this limtation and has much better ability to grow, but still requires regular tending. In addition the fruit is radioactive and needs to be tended to or it can cause minor but significant spillage of radiation which is at least localized compared to the background radiation of the land.

NCR scientists predict that once America has been reconquered and most of the background radiation asborbed by the plant, any future gardens will need to be tended near nuclear power plants and radioactive waste dumps.

Rolled 64 (1d100)

>>1903300
>Why not use regular fusion cores/batteries?
Well we don't have fusion cores. We do have alien batteries, but having something that can refuel off of plain water (depending on how OP treats it) would be advantageous.

>>1903161
Support and dice.

Rolled 78 (1d100)

>>1903161
>>1903179
>>1903360
three votes.
Remember >>1903164 modification

>>1903360
>Well we don't have fusion cores.
Yes we do, we have the option to equip our tankitron either with a alien battery (Bigger weakpoint) or a fusion core. (smaller/no weakpoint)