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File: BOS_Armor.jpg (103 KB, 1024x768)
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War, war never changes.

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive.html?tags=Fallout%2C+Civ%2C+Courier%2C+New+Vegas%2C+Enclave%2C+America

Last Thread
>>1809111

You are the Courier. And you are currently trying out a new pair of Power Armor, gifted from the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel. While your nation grows at home, you have to make some hard choices for the betterment of your people. You net yourself yet another, even greater miracle of the Old World, for a price you were willing to afford.
>>
You have allowed the Brotherhood Reavers to analyze and copy your BigMT Augments in exchange for the following gifts personally to you.

>>1816138
>Hover Bikes - A hoverbike with small rocket propulsion capabilities,used by both the Midwestern Brotherhood of Steel and in greater numbers by the East Coast Brotherhood of Steel.

>Brotherhood Midwestern Power Armor - Built to be superior to the old Paladin Version, and made specifically for mass production from classified facilities.

>Echo-Boy - These special detection devices improve the ability to detect large concentrations of metal, which can be used both for salvaging opertions and for defense

>Vault Water Purifier + Chips (Blueprints): Vault sized Water Purification Filters. It isn't enough to filter whole rivers or lakes, but can sustain Vault sized populations. Effectively one of these should work for your population at BigMT
>>
ALERT!

The new Medium Steel Mill and assorted factories have passively produced 12 new Loader Squads

BigMT has exhausted ALL its Scrap Steel and Fissile Material.

---

STATS HERE

>BIG MT
https://pastebin.com/jAXYFRB1

>THE NURSERY
https://pastebin.com/ic3ac1xL

I'm transitioning to Pastebin Stats. Personallly, they're harder to navigate than posting on 4chan but sort of necessary otherwise the thread would be bloated.

---

An additional town has upped your action cap!

4 Action Cap.

Available Actions: Civilian, Construction, Military, Research, ZAX, Hero
+Robotic Research does not count toward cap.
+Biological Research does not count toward cap
>>>>>Turn: 116
>>
>>1816408
We were also going to go home, stopping to pick up a missionary and drop off the chickens at Utah.
>>
>>1816424
>Hero.
Assuming we've already gone home.
-Go bach to New Cannan to learn more about Christianity and to bring back a Missionary.
-Go deliver a teleporter to the Nursery as detailed in >>1815125 Bring space saucer parts.
Anything else anons want to add?
>Civ.
Gather Steel and Fissile.
>Construction.
Start constructing a large solar farm/tower.
>Military.
I dunno.
>ZAX.
Support construction of the large solar farm/tower.
>Robot research.
Research Spiderbots, they should be able to climb and cling to vertical surfaces and can camouflage themselves.
>Biological research.
Better plants for subterranean farming.
>>
ALERT!

Also this month is founding day
>>
>>1816451
Alright, add
-Celebrate founding day.
To our Hero action.
Can't believe i forgot that.
>>
>>1816450
Millitary
-Parade?

Qm We have an excess of Brahmin, how about a Festival / Feast type thing?
>>
>>1816460
Add Parade to our military action please QM.
>>
>>1816424
>Hero.
Assuming we've already gone home.
-Go back to New Cannan to learn more about Christianity and to bring back a Missionary.
-Go deliver a teleporter to the Nursery as detailed in >>1815125 → Bring space saucer parts.
-celebrate founding day
>construct
engineering HQ
>civ
gather metal and fissile

>ZAX research
tunnelers- incorporate the echoboy plans if need be
>research
neurological research that the followers wanted
>Biological research.
Better plants for subterranean farming.
>>
https://pastebin.com/GMfdS7Z3

List of things we have to do for big things.
>>
Hold it right their faggots. What about the long range satellite and building of this long range satellite?

If we want to get that Mass fusion we should get going with this.
>>
>>1816460
>Qm We have an excess of Brahmin, how about a Festival / Feast type thing?
Everyone would like that
>>
>>1816473
The Nursery apparently has a Coms Sat.
QM can that Com Sat reach the commonwealth?
>>
>>1816476
Qm are we a go for second construction action or do we still need to put in work for it?

To anon from last thread that was asking about Pastebin that I apparently missed here it is https://pastebin.com/Q6p6Zymr Bear in mind its pretty outdated. Ive been spending too much time at work to keep it updated.
>>
>>1816476
Alright, let's do that.
>>
>>1816450
Altering this slightly.

>>1816424 #
>HERO
Assuming we've already gone home.
- Start a chicken farm with our eggs
-Go bach to New Cannan to bring back a Missionary and give copies of our book.
-Go deliver a teleporter to the Nursery as detailed in >>1815125 → # Bring space saucer parts.
- Celebrate Founding day with family

>CIV
Gather Steel and Fissile from Divide via train.

>CONSTRUCTION
>ZAX
Assist the ZAX's auto-effort to get a second construction action.

>MILITARY
Surround the large glowing section of the Divide with our forces. Set up multiple kill zones with tank/artillery cover. Use our new supermutant troops to lure out the irradiated beasts sporadically to be killed.

>Robot research.
Continue tunelling robot research. Maybe by incorporating a flat disinitgration field on the front, we could make digging easier

>Biological research.
Better plants for subterranean farming.

>Passive production
Construction Loaders
>>
>>1816473
We do have Diana's satellite right now, but cold fusion is closer and easier to get then the slogg in the commonwealth. Right in the divide infact. Once the tunneler is done we can go in, disable the defenses and suborn whatever technology they have. Even just pluggin into the grid that powers the emp rockets woul;d be a bounty.
>>
>>1816489
support this actually.

We should let the Mormons handle the chicken farm. They have the ecology for it.
>>
>>1816489
God dammit i forgot passive production!
>>
>>1816490
My sweet Anon just think of the IC reasons to go to the Commonwealth. It something our hero can do next turn
>>
>>1816489
Ill support this. Can we tack on >>1816476
to it?
>>
>>1816489
Supporting.
Speaking of the Commonwealth, how many turns until the start of Fallout 4 QM?
>>
>>1816499
That depends
>They think I'm going to confirm or deny any deviations to the timeline
>>
>>1816489
This with getting some beef.


I'm going to be a unhappy Anon if we keep waiting to build the satellite to go visit the Commonwealth

>>1816499
Less than a year
>>
>>1816503
Oh yeah, Arthur is King, not Elder, things are going differently.

>>1816499
But if I recall correctly, the game begins in a year and a bit.
>>
>>1816503
Oh.
Well then, we're gonna have to go there as soon as possible.
Can you please answer >>1816485
>>
>>1816485
>Diana
"Yes, bar any sort of jamming or interference though it is attuned to very specific frequencies."
>>
>>1816489
Roll me 3 1d100s!
>>
Rolled 91 (1d100)

>>1816526
>>
>>1816523
Next turn then!
>>
Rolled 28 (1d100)

>>1816526
>>
Rolled 35 (1d100)

>>1816526
Nat 100
>>
>>1816526
OP, give us more detailed info of the new power armor
>>
>>1816528
YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.
>>
>>1816489
>>CIV
>Gather Steel and Fissile from Divide via train.
With what robots are left in the divide, Huge amounts of steel are gathered as well as some fissile. Now making their way in the same turn to BigMT!

>Robot research.
>Continue tunelling robot research. Maybe by incorporating a flat disinitgration field on the front, we could make digging easier

>CEO
"Vehicles"

>MAJOR
"Soldiers"

>CEO
"Vehicles."

>MAJOR
"Soldiers!"

>CEO
"Vehicles!"

>MAJOR
"SOLDIERS!"

And the debate goes on, but so does research.

A pure disintegration drill wasn't feasible as it tended to also disintegrate the disintegrator at point blank, however, disintegration to help clear away debris and soil proved a major step forward.

The first prototype of a maneuverable medium sized drill robot is complete! It can crawl on four legs, and drill from point a to point b. It can dig through soft sand best, and through rock very slowly (and only forwards) but its pure proof of concept.

But still the issue of communications. For now, it must be pre-programed with set orders until it can surface again.
>>
>>1816563
I want vehicles. I see z transport APC that drills up from the dirt and spews out a squad of men.

Then we can get something with a little firepower, for clearing rats from tunnels..
>>
>>1816563
Alright, next turn we research the Echo-Boy, mostly how to make more and if we can make it detect unmined metal.
>>
>>1816574
We have the plans presumably. So we can incorporate them into the tunnelers for navigation.
>>
>>1816563
Is the Brotherhood power armor Superior to power armor we have currently?

Or is it just very good power armor that can be made?
>>
Anyone have any ideas how to fix the Subterranean communications?
>>
>>1816591
Short of stringing up wire behind the tunneler, not really.
>>
>>1816591
Throw more research at it.
>>
>>1816598
Guess well have to go with my subterranean messenger bots idea.
>>
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>>1816489
>>Biological research.
>Better plants for subterranean farming.
Diana reluctantly agree's to do research for you. She's still not 100% on board with the idea, but really can't resist. You are noticing subtle hints that she is loosening up though, mostly by the way her holographic body acts around you.

It turns out rather than modifying the plants, modifying the enviornment can be just as effective.

She theorizes the most efficient color of lighting for underground farms, which just so happens to be the exact same frequency as the Light Switch 02. "Seed gestation and cellular reproduction of plants is improved with this lightwave."

Thus you import her programming to the Nursery. You wonder if its the light and hologram playing tricks on your eyes, but is she staring at you when she thinks your not looking? When you turn to look, she vanishes.

---

She also designs highly efficient growth platforms which can store several layers of plants at a time, and starts modifying certain plant types specifically suited for fast, underground growth. As a bonus, they produce a lot of fresh oxygen.

"These would be very suitable for space gardens in spacecraft."

>Your underground farms, when built, will be improved!
>>
>>1816569
Shit yes this, we will need an army of these for the future
>>
>>1816591
Research long range satellite and steal research from MIT.

we could you know...

>>1816598
>>1816601
Can someone look back at the reward Diane was giving before we boon? Since we should all of them.
>>
>>1816610
Thank you Diana, even if you didn't want to.
>>
>>1816610
Fuck. We really need to build those underground farms
>>
>>1816610
Also I'm noticing you are posting faster than before. So I want to say thanks
>>
>>1816618
Here, I put it on the current to-do list
https://pastebin.com/GMfdS7Z3
>>
>>1816618
With the Nursery's 2 HUGE power plant's we could generate the resources needed for the farms there.
>>
>>1816624
Once we get the teleporters up we could see about keeping a constant wormhole or something going. WORHOLE XTREME!!
>>
Fucking bugs everywhere, i just squashed a third one on my fan.
>>
>>1816616
You've actually been toying around with the mechanical aspects of her predicament.

If for example, the Brain or James-Bond gives her an order, she says no If they say you ordered it, or you give the same order, she pouts and then does it.

>>1816624
There's more farms in the Nursery than needed to feed three times your total population everywhere. Though a huge portion of it is infested with nasty thigns like carniverous plants or angry wildlife.
>>
>>1816633
>There's more farms in the Nursery than needed to feed three times your total population everywhere. Though a huge portion of it is infested with nasty thigns like carniverous plants or angry wildlife.
Eh, those Carnivorous plants can be converted to Salient green too so i don't see the problem.
>>
>>1816633
We get a stable teleportation link up and we won't be wanting for food. Even during a siege.
>>
>>1816591
Incorporate a brain?

Also I'm a vehicle fan, the sub sounded good.
>>
>>1816636
Man i can't wait to get combat capable Subterranean vehicles/robots, we can then begin to set so many underground farms and colonies.
>>
>>1816633
Also i think you mistook what i said, i was talking about generating metal and fissile.
>>
>>1816637
I was thinking of making them human driven, but that can work too.
>>
>>1816404
About the last thread and your retcon. I chose not to post earlier, as to have a bit of thought time and I don't want to just abandon the quest lightly.

Have to say I can't really enjoy the meaningful choices anymore, as it feels that you are catering to a small segment of readers who 'just want everything to be shiny and goody'.

There is no real reason to participate to decision making anymore, as any "controversial" choices voted by the majority (as majority as it can be here, anyway) will simply be retconned. Like was done now.

Your quest doesn't feel meaningful anymore, as choices don't really matter.
>>
>>1816649
Nice meme.
>>
>>1816649
The shitfest was never about our choice for me, it was about our character.
The chip is still cannon, QM just posted about it, he just retconned the dialouge.
>>
>>1816649
The retcon wasnt about the choice, it was about the dialogue in the choice.
>>
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>>1816489
>>CONSTRUCTION
>>ZAX
>Assist the ZAX's auto-effort to get a second construction action.
The ZAX begins his next ambitious project, a massive expansion to the Chinese Factory. Copying elements of the Chinese methods, and incorporating lessons from the robot factory, it is an expansion to the Robot Factory which promises the ability to not only produce vehicles, but also service and maintain them!

It's halfway built, thanks to the new Steel Mill and everything else but the structure is already more ambitious than anything you've built so far.

Actually BigMT is starting to run out of above ground space, and also we're going to need more power because this thing is going to take up more power than we already have
>>
>>1816661
Knew it, we need to build the solar farm.
>>
>>1816663
Also BigMT is running out of above space. And solar farms uses lot of space I guess we can build them outside.
>>
>>1816665
We can begin using the tunneling robot to expand our underground caves, then just build stuff down there.
Or we can just start building in one of our outposts.
>>
>>1816649
I admitted a mistake in character judgement of skills "charisma" which was off putting as well as the dialogue was poor choiced.

But the end result is effectively the same.

While the dialogue itself is not canon, her feelings are the same and you are still effectively manipulating her mind and psyche to keep her in line.

It's going to happen whether she wants to or not (and eventually, both of you know she will "want" to). Its an inevitability even if she hates you right now. So why bother petty resistance when she can accept it protect her children.

She is afraid that her emotions aren't real, and tries to be angry or at least annoyed at you long as she can to hold onto whats left of her identity and self. She still can't actually disobey you.
>>
Rolled 38, 16, 63 = 117 (3d100)

>>1816675
In essence the Courier is intelligently and emotionally manipulating her to ensure her obedience and in the long run her willing loyalty.

>>1816489
I'll leave the Military Action for last.

>-Go deliver a teleporter to the Nursery as detailed in >>1815125 Bring space saucer parts.

Hmm
>>
>>1816683
No rolling? You are rolling for the enemies right vs our 3 rolls for the turn.
>>
>>1816683
You dart through canyons, over rivers, through ravines, in between rocks. Anyway you can avoid the BoS (or for that matter, any MLA) RADAR

And so far, it doesn't appear you have been spotted or watched.

Good thing too, you were carrying something REALLY big. A giant vehicle sized, uh, vehicle! Your prototype design for an infantry movement machine.

You wonder if its range will reach BigMT, theoretically it should. Both the Tesla Function and the Portal Network theoretically have ranges more infinite than the universe for their effects, as the Portal Pad folds space time, but the issue is the transmission of data to make transfers possible.

With Diana's satellite however, it should be feasible. You'll have to test it once you are there.

>con't
>>
>>1816657
I must have missed the retconned dialog. Could someone repost it please?
>>
>>1816722
lets not and say we didnt.
>>
>>1816722

>>1815371
>>1815551
>>
>>1816704
Okay, so the thing turns on. Back at BigMT your scientists report the Tower recognizes successful connection.

There's one pad here, and one pad there.

The only thing to do is test it.

You've never teleported anything this far.

>Send yourself in!
>Send a volunteer in!
>>
>>1816731
>Send yourself in!
>>
>>1816552
I'll give you more details on the power armor, gimme a sec
>>
>>1816731
>Send something in.
Something for our Founding day, like rare meat.
>>
>>1816734
A turkey!
>>
>>1816734
Supporting turkey
>>
>>1816734
I'll go with the turkey, it was almost chosen to be America's bird.
>>
>>1816731
>Send yourself in!

or something else, like a small animal or something similar
>>
writing
>>
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>>1816734
According to ancient history, every "Thanks Giving Feast" day, Americans would eat a "Turkey". A giant feathery bird with a red chin and a big fluffy tail that would go "Gobble"

Nobody has tasted a fresh turkey in 200 years, the closest thing you've ever had was dried turkey packets.

You ask Diana to clone one, and sure enough, she releases it for you to see.

You wonder why they call it "gobble" thats not the sound it makes at all. . .

Something about a lot of old world animals, is they act rather stupidly. This thing just waltzs around, unafraid of predators or you, just making a click-clucking sound and occasoinally attempting to fly away from you.

It can't even fly, it just jumps. You run up and grab it, and throw it into the portal.

You have a small chuckle as you hear the raucous going on the otherside, your scientists absolutly terrified and bewiledered. Only Cass, who happened to be there, had the sense to trap and catch the thing.

Janith Kindertgarden is delighted that you have rediscovered Turkey, and intends to prepare it as a dish just for you and your family!

Evidently, the portal works!
>>
>>1816761
>Janith Kindertgarden is delighted that you have rediscovered Turkey, and intends to prepare it as a dish just for you and your family!
Nah, everyone can have a slice.
>>
>>1816761
Use the portal now its safe!
>>
>>1816762
We're going to need more than one turkey to feed over 300 people

Anything else we want to transport through before we go home? A doge, cat, or maybe a cow.
>>
>>1816726
No, I mean the retconned dialog. Or is that the retconned one?
>>
>>1816648
The idea was to 'loan' them to the MLA.

Making them human driven would allow them to keep them or copy the design. Robots hinder that process.
>>
>>1816774
That's the one.
>>
>>1816768
we have SUPERCOW!

but dogs would be useful. Perhaps a certified bald eagle for the america connection? Perhaps even horses/sheep?
>>
>>1816777
>The idea was to 'loan' them to the MLA.
This has a disintegrator though, unless you plan to give them one that has swapped the disintegrator with a normal drill.
>>
>>1816783
Keep in mind that not only to we have to feed those animal but are being spyed upon by the NCR, suddenly having a bunch of old world animals never seen after the war will raise their interest.
>>
The Brotherhood of Steel's Advanced Power Armor comes as a major shock.

It is, in most respects, the equal of the Remnants Power Armor, as that in itself was the Enclave's original Advanced Power Armor their very best, but it achieves this while weighing 3 pounds less.

You deduce from this that their MP version of Power Armor is either equal or superior to the standard Brotherhood West Coast power armor as well.

If the Brotherhood Midwest are already mass producing even average power armor, and have a vast recruitable populace plus a numerically superior robot army, that is a very very scary thought.
>>
Wait guys.

Didn't we make perfect clones of the reavers? Shouldn't that mean we analyzed and replicated their augments too? Seeing how they were best of the best, they should have the best military grade augments...

OP, are you cucking us again? We should have gained about half a dozen new augments from that. At the very least the better eye augments.

Also, we should get ALL the tech that Diana has. Please make a list of things we gained from here.

And what happened to their weapons and armor?
I really hope that we disabled or removed most of their augments. I swear, I see a prision breakout looming.
>>
>>1816783
Well if we bring a horse back with us. It will send a powerful image to our people. Just imagine it, us riding into town with a horse just in time for founding day.

Our ship is still here, so I guess we can park it here for now. If we want to go the Commonwealth or go exploring.
>>
>>1816789
Good thing we can now research that power armor and Cannibal Johnson's to make our own improved version!
>>
>>1816793
We also have what we traded with the BoS for, which i certainly want to research in depth too.
How about QM writes up a quick description of the stuff we got later when this turn is finished?
>>
>>1816793
If you look back of the thread before you'll see we should get all the tech she was offeting. And for the augs of the Reavers I feel we need to do a research action for it.
>>
>>1816793
Needs research to get their augments.

>Please make a list of things we gained from here
Thats quite a lot anon, but the buildings should explain themselves. The repository and cloning facility for example.

Also the "perfect clone" were also partly the result of boon usage, you may not likely get the same results on a regular basis. At least for humans.
>>
>>1816788
Let them be interested. We haven't broken any of our agreed upon treaties.

I wouldn't mind them being jealous for once, instead of us just pissed off at our stolen tech
>>
>>1816789
3 pounds less? That's like nothing...

>>1816778
If that's the retconned one how the hell did the original look like?
>>
>>1816795
Especially with all the cowboy culture / references in New vegas. Would be a big hit I think.
>>
>>1816806
I see


I meant list of new techs we got.
>>
>>1816811
That is the Original that was retconned. No New dialouge was given. You are encouraged to just imagine the conversation the way you would have wanted it to go.
>>
>>1816809
Alright then i guess.
>>1816811
Ah, you misunderstand, there's no new dialogue, the retcon is just that dialogue not being Cannon.
>>
>>1816765
You step into the portal

And find yourself back at the top of the THINK TANK!

SUCCESS!

>you now have instant teleportation to the Nursery, limited to large humanoid sized objects and only a single man at a time

>con't

---

As for the tech there is a lot of it. Like, really. Wow. You're better off jut asking for certain things you think a nature specialized person might have.
>>
CHOOSE:
>>The Cure for Cancer - You don't currently have this and your scientists weren't even sure it were possible!
>>An Animal Companion - Trained and friendly
>>A superior Farming Algorithim for Mr. Howdys and all robot farms for superior production
>>A gene inducer to reduce plant water needs

>>You
>(Yeah, I definitely wanna figure out how to handle those hologram 'bounties')

>---

>"Return to me with items of trade, and a member of your people, and perhaps my bounties may flow to you again"

>---

>>Ask Diana about the illness she had cured.
>"A terrible disease called the New Plague. It was rampant many decades ago, until I spread the cure. I pray it has not returned."

>>Linux
>"With the Brotherhoods efforts, we will ensure that never happens Goddess."

>>She gives you the cure
>+New Plague Cure

>Diana gives you a way to contact her via her personal satellite


Tl:dr
New plague cure
Gene thing to reduce water needs
Cure for cancer
Farming algorithm for robots
Could get a animal compaion

What we get from this place + the location OP already posted in pastebin.
>>
still awake, still here, still writing
>>
>>1816839
passing out. you guys have a good one. Thanks for running qm.
>>
>>1816469
>-Go bach to New Cannan to bring back a Missionary and give copies of our book.
You return to New Canaan.

Zion remains, peaceful and protected, and New Zion as well.

You return to see Daniel, and your follower both of whom are pleased to see you.

You bring more copies of the book, but Daniel has to interrupt you.

>Daniel
"Your book is interesting Courier, it's got a lot of words to be had on the state of the world. Truth be told we don't get much news here, so it was quite the read for some.

But I'm afraid there's something we gotta talk about.

This idea, that the 'family' is 'open to interpretation'. Well, to be frank and honest, it is sinful to us.

The Lord said that "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

I'm afraid we can't really endorse a book like that. Out of respect for what you've done before, you are always welcome here, but we can't allow your book."

>Tell them you understand, and still ask them for missionary work.
>Bah. If they don't want your book, you don't really need their book either. This is just more tribal nonsense
>Other?
>>
>>1816849
>Tell them you understand, and still ask them for missionary work.
>>
>>1816849
>Bah. If they don't want your book, you don't really need their book either. This is just more tribal nonsense
>>
>>1816849
>Tell them you understand, and still ask them for missionary work.


OP, just wanted to say that despite your occasional flaws, you're definitely one of the most dedicated QMs I've ever seen. You give us a lot of agency and you respect criticism. Not to mention you running every day for this long.

So thanks, QM
>>
>>1816849
>>Tell them you understand, and still ask them for missionary work.
>>
>>1816849
>>Bah. If they don't want your book, you don't really need their book either. This is just more tribal nonsense
>>
>>1816852
I try to make this quest both interesting for you and me. If things get cocked up, feels bad on this side too.
>>
>>1816850
>>1816852
>>1816854
3
>>1816851
>>1816854
2

Anyone wanna vote now or forever hold your peace.

--

>Int
Hmmm.

You have a number of homosexuals in your nation, and people whose doors "swing both ways"

You get the feeling the Christianity religion might end up ostracizing them.

At the same time, while these Christians believe in multiple wives which justifies your practices, somewhat, they also believe in multiple "wives". You're only actually married to one.
>>
>>1816857
Locked, writing
>>
>>1816861
>>1816857
OP can you give us a turn count for how long until we can unfreeze the next guy from the alien ship?

It's been some time since that last guy, like 5-6 turns who still never do anything. Take your time.
>>
>>1816850
>>1816852
>>1816853
They offer to send two of their missionaries, and hope that perhaps their families might also come to live in your city.

The two men seem to have no fear leaving their home for a land so far away, and in fact, it seems missionary work is a necessary part of their religion for all men. Though not women.

+2 Mormon Missionaries

>>1816868
That guy seems to be in a major depression, longer than the others. But, hopefully he recovers.
>>
>>1816857
This will blow up in our face in time. When the people start thinking in a way that is not in line with us there will be problems. I realize there will always be extremists but this could, without proper management, go the way of the sparrows in GoT (admittedly, an extreme example).
>>
>>1816875
>That guy seems to be in a major depression, longer than the others. But, hopefully he recovers.
What is his problem and what genre of music does he play? We never found out.
>>
>>1816879
What's GoT?
>>
>>1816880
Something like this, I hope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moag4Xf498c
>>
>>1816880
Maybe he's suffering for going cold turkey, or just it's a lot for him to take in

>>1816882
GoT = Game of Thrones
>>
>>1816882
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7L2PVdrb_8
>>
>>1816886
>>1816889
Yea i don't watch game of thrones so i don't get that reference.
>>
>>1816893
I don't get it either.
>>
>>1816893
>>1816895
Religeous extremists were granted power so they effectively took over the capital. The situation became so dire that both the common people and some nobles were supporting them. It went down a rabbit hole of the pauper king of the zealots becoming the voice behind the king. It all ended when the secondlargest building in the city was blown up. All round bad when they were given power.

And I see how this could be a problem for us as well. Especially the extreme version of the religeon which would clash hard with our word views and the people in it.
>>
>>1816899
It was all going good until the incest mother decided to blow everything up.
It'll be alright anon, Christianity = Good

I would say something else, but I'm a bit tired.
>>
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>>1816489
>- Start a chicken farm with our eggs
You start up a small chicken farm from the hatched chicks in your backyard, hoping they will grow into chickens. The little yellow and brown birds chirp a lot.
+personal chicken farm

---

>- Celebrate Founding day with family
This founding day, there was hardly any time for celebration, but you pressed the need for "diligence and perseverane" among the people.

As a token reward, you have the BSR clone samples of the tropical fruit. Your people get to fumble around trying to eat a "banana" for the first time in 200 years.

As for you and yours, Janith Kindergarten has prepared a humble feast from the Turkey and all the fruits and veges you brought.

This feast would be worth a fortune at the Ultra Luxe! There are so many different flavors and textures and sweets you didn't dream possible. You and your wives and best companions enjoy the meal, along with your 4 year old children. Many of them are old enough to talk now, and view you as something like a hero.

But not so much a father. You feel a sad pit in your heart that you, while so busy in the pursuit of your nation, aren't always at home.

You hope Sam, wherever she is, remembers you too.

>>1816831
BTW you're going to need actions to apply these (general or research)
>>
>>1816904
I dont think having the ruling class bowing to a zealot pauper is a good thing. Especially if our version starts demanding tithes from citizens or that we change things to suit his ideals. That is a no go.

I hope everything goes nicely and we all become friends but I am not gullible enough for that. We have to monitor the situation.
>>
Rolled 70, 27, 56 = 153 (3d100)

>MILITARY
Surround the large glowing section of the Divide with our forces. Set up multiple kill zones with tank/artillery cover. Use our new supermutant troops to lure out the irradiated beasts sporadically to be killed.

Hmmmm
>>
>>1816907
No one said it was going to be easy but we have to keep on so all this doesnt fall to dust in the hands of our enemies.

Also, when our chickens start laying eggs, dont eat them but breed them until we have a big enough population to start a farm. I assume they are regular chicken so the input/output of resources should be more or less ok. Start dishing out "real chicken" to the populace for +morale and +loyalty.
>>
>>1816908
I agree that monitoring the religions is a good idea. Getting that catholic/orthodox priest will also be a good thing for bringing about the idea of denominations, so we can always pull a Henry VIII if we need to.
>>
>>1816909
Hmmmm

>>1816908
The idea was that we add the Mormons so the Hubs doesn't become the thing you are talking about.

Of course we're going to monitor things. I also want to defreeze the priest that is locked away in the alien ship.

>>1816910
Anon, we could just spend a action to just clone animals, and just teleport them back home. Much faster, and allow us to get more animals.
>>
>>1816912
Since we can't unfreeze the Priest currently, that's why we get the Mormons as a sub, until it's time.
>>
Riddick with Bounty PA
Cain with BoS PA
The Devils Brigade
Hazel with Bounty Hunter PA
Ed-E
2 MKV Hazard-Salvager Securitron Squads (5R)
2 Sentry Shield-Juggernaut Minigunners (5R)
11.5 Securitrons MKV Hazard Bot Squads (8R)
8 Securitrons MKV Squads (8R)
5 {JUNK REPAIR} Securitrons MKV Hazard Bot Squads (8R)
1 LAER MKV Hazard (5R)
6 Small Flyer Repairbots Squads (10R)
12 Spy-Eye Bots Squads
1 Super Heavy Omni-Constructor
3 Universal Loader Squads
2 Heavy Hazard Bastion (5R) - {Light Mechinzed}
+1 ZAX Tankitron {Repuslor Hazard} {Medium LAER guided TESLA cannon}{Heat-Ray}

Just putting this out here for reference
>>
calculating the battle. Hope my anons are stil here.
>>
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>>1816920
Yes
>>
>>1816817
>>1816818


I see.

... I don't have much of imagination and world have preferred a new dialog taking into consideration our preferences.
>>
>>1816913
Seems reasonable. I support the book then. Just as long as we keep a tight rein on things.
>>
>>1816923
Seems really a non-issue for me. Yes it was sub par but why get your panties in such a twist over it.

>>1816920
Its midday where I am so no problem.
>>
>>1816917
>3 Universal Loader Squads
You forgot the +12 loader squads

>>1816924
What book?
>>
>>1816923
>... I don't have much of imagination and world have preferred a new dialog taking into consideration our preferences.
I could make a fanfic, quality dialog and put it on pastebin for anons to see. Non canon of course
>>
>>1816913
Good points.

Next HERO action should be:
- Travel back to the Nursery for a GECK
and clone more old world animals to take back to BigMT
- Talk to Monero, Cass, Unity and our Brain about the ideas espoused in our book and their thoughts
- Spend some time with our children and associated wives; we've been away a lot recently
>>
>>1816926
No, I mean if it was retconned, I'd like to see a new version
>>
>>1816927
Mormon.

>>1816929
As long as it isnt waifu talk I would be interested in reading.
>>
>>1816930
- Travel back to the Nursery for a GECK
We don't have to go back to get a GECK, she can just teleport one to us.
Also why do we need a GECK?
>>
>>1816931
I understood you but that was more for the moralfag outrage earlier. If QM can deliver, good. If not, I dont see why we should spend more time on the issue.
>>
>>1816929
Do it
>>
>>1816935
Fair point.

The land around BigMT can't really be described as green or vibrant. If we want to start raising old world animals, we're going to need to terraform a bit of our local area.
>>
>>1816929
Do you want it to be canon? Thats how you make things canon.

Might be especially if its (realistically) manipulative as hell, like the guys in those 30 minute documentaries
>>
>>1816946
Eh, i want too keep our lands as desert tough, it's tough for armies to cross it on foot which is nice for us.
>>
>>1816935
>Also why do we need a GECK?
Because, if the legends are true, that would turn the blasted fucking wasteland of BigMT into a moist paradise? As in, if the legends are true, create entire lakes of fresh clean water? Make the weather rain fresh water?

That might, quite literally, possibly, even fix the Divide?
>>
>>1816927
Most of them are busy back home working
>>
>>1816950
But i like having territory that people can't normally survive in! It makes invading us harder!
>>
>>1816949
The desert is huuuuge. We spruce up the immediate area around BigMT. An oasis in the desert. The desert which we will fill with autoturrets, surveilance drones and traps. >>1816950
>>
>>1816955
But aren't we moving our crops underground?
I guess i can accept terraforming if we make sure it's contained on;y in BigMT and New Washington.
>>
>>1816949
It won't change the entire big empty, just the area right near us.

Also, it has a cold fusion power source (that we can reverse engineer) and a huge library of pre-war knowledge for our school.
>The GECK is intended to be "disassembled" over the course of its use to help build communities (for example, the cold fusion power source is intended to be used for main city power production), and so on. Anything else people needed, they could simply consult the How-To Books/Library of Congress/Encyclopedias in the GECK holodisk library for more knowledge.
>>
>>1816960
Well there you go. Get that going. IF there is a GECK for us to take.
>>
>>1816960
>Diana
"I may not have that model on stock, nor do I even have any GECK's right now.

There were at least two models of GECK, maybe more.

The Terraformation Model and the Civilization Reconstruction Model.

Ideally, a Vault would be equipped with both. One to bring life into the land, the other to allow humans to populate it. When the factory was working, it was focused on the former model.
>>
>>1816489
>MILITARY
>Surround the large glowing section of the Divide with our forces. Set up multiple kill zones with tank/artillery cover. Use our new supermutant troops to lure out the irradiated beasts sporadically to be killed.

A defensive perimeter is set up.

Mostly several vehicle concentrated areas surrounded by a layer of robots.

The idea to test the Super Mutants in actual combat by luring monsters is approved by Kreger, who says it would be good to get them trained in combat and learn squad based skills.

"I agree too" says a relativey young feminine voice, coming from someone whose height is scarcely above half of yours.

>You
[Unity? What are you doing here?]

>Unity
'Leading the Unity, of course. "

>You
[Oh? Did you bring forces from Baker? Or convert any marked men?]

>Unity
"Nope.

I'm here to lead the army of my father, the Master.

The Super Mutants."
>>
In other news, we REALLY need to do some heavy duty intelligence work on the NCR, as OP has been dropping some disturbing comments on this.
>>
>>1816984
What comments? i must have missed them.
>>
>>1816984
Once we finish with 2nd construction action. Then we will get SPI to do her thing. First we need to stop them from spying on us.
>>
>>1816984
Beyond the border spying?
>>
Does FEV come under biological research / does Diana know anything about the FEV?

We can get her to work with our Enclave President if she does.
>>
OP, are you kill again?
>>
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>>1816947
>Do you want it to be canon? Thats how you make things canon.
Is that a challenge? Because I have something to show you.

https://pastebin.com/6CkVJ9vm

Yes, here is it. I try my hand at writing. It's early in the morning. I'm sleepy but I tried, to make it better than what OP did.

No hate appreciate. :^)
>>
>>1817001
That's great man

>Make America green again
Perfect
>>
>>1816985
When we mentioned the ncr is advancing faster than they should, OP said: "That does seem strange indeed..." or something to that effect. Might be my paranoia talking though.
>>
>>1817007
Thanks, I try to add all new lines of dialogue, and kept a few lines the same just changed. I hope this feels like a better alternative, for anons.

I get the feeling OP went to sleep, so he don't be able to see it, until later.
Non canon unless, OP say something about it.
>>
>>1817017
Yeah, I like how you incorporated the lines which OP used
>>
>>1817001
Too much trying to be white knight. If anything, the Courier understands hard choices and living with them. I dont oppose being kind but this is us basically begging for her to like us. She doesnt have to like us. She has to get that we dont really want her dead, just supporting us and ultimately this is best for the most people. Just replace the creepy lines from the original with calm and collected arguments and facts which she cant refute. Like the fact we will keep this place hidden and safe. That we will make make the wasteland green in due time and that we are ultimately here to help everybody if they dont fuck us.

>>1816983
Not really sure I trust her not to have split interests. We can give her a go after if Marcus isnt good enough. Otherwise I would like to keep her a spy/hero unit alone.

>>1816966
As per Fallout bible, the original GECKs were miracle machines used to set up the town of Vault City. This included soil and water changes, a reactor, building instructions and more. Basically you could turn a crap dune into a fertile field with a cold fusion reactor for lighting the whole damned thing and then some. If we are talking bethesda nonsense you come to a deus ex machina device that literally does magick. Uses internal replicators to literally transform the landscape. Either way we get a magitech McGuffin.

In the FBible it is stated that the difference comes from the fact that the lesser ones were "incomplete". So to speak there are not 2 variants but one design that had been partially constructed due to budget cuts or time constraints. However, all the versions had a cold fusion generator and vast databanks for guides, history, propaganda and such.
>>
>>1817027
I tired. I just wrote what felt more like the courier. Each person has there own idea of the courier. But either way thanks for the constructive criticism, now I go to sleep. While you euros have a good afternoon.
>>
>>1817034
Sleep tight, dont let the liberals bite.
>>
>>1817027
>>1817034

No, I think it's great, much better than what was before.
There's is nothing whiteknighty about it and everything manipulative. We are eventually doing what we were going to do anyway, we just framed it with nice words which get right reaction from her.
That's how max cha and speech should work. Getting your way and manipulating people but in way that they think it is a good idea.
>>
>>1817027
I am shit at writing but here is my interpretation.

https://pastebin.com/ihKftS2z

>>1817040
Ok, didnt think about it like that. That I would be fine with. What I dont like is us actually wanting to kiss her feet for something we knew had to be done.
>>
>>1817040
The way I was going was the white Knight stuff was just to manipulate her. He play around with her, see they will be equals and we can't do it without her. We could be it's just easier with her.

>>1817048
Yeah, I wasn't kissing her feet just for the hell of it. Just to smooth talk her into playing ball with us.

You idea is more simple, keeping it true what OP wrote by writing in differences. I'm even more tried to think of something to say.
>>
>>1817062
Yes, I get that now. my mistake. If we play the manipulative angle I am more than good with this. I just feared that, with the white knighting going on last thread, we would go down that route again.
>>
>>1817076
It wasn't white knighting. It was the dialogue being excessively and needlessly rapey, with a very thin justification. It was dialogue that would be considered derivative trash in a self-masturbatory rape-fic.
>>
>>1817096
Are you taking about the dialog that OP wrote or anon's fan-fiction?
>>
>>1817105
Laat thread. The dialogue that never happened.
>>
>>1817096
And I agree. It was bad and not something I would have the character say. I very much prefer the version this anon >>1817001 wrote. Especially since we are actually manipulating her not groveling to please her.

What I dislike is the giant shitstorm that ensued after the post by QM. The fact that the thread, instead of calm discussion and a solution to the issue devolved into name calling and labeling the whole thing as somehow the PC was Super-Rapist the Ever-Creepy. QM even stated that it was what the PC read from script and not what he actually thought. And I think the solution was god. Having it be a head-canon thing for people so they can set it in a way that is best for them. God knows we cant agree on everyhting (looking at you grey id anon, you moralfag you).
>>
>>1816649
You could've posted about the retcon earlier, about 2-3 were okay with keeping it, although late. Another 3-4 weren't from the looks of it.

>>1816408
>>1816037
>>1816100
Could we have also rolled for it and any better deals, or was that the roll for our military trade?
>>
>>1817117
Just because they provided a script doesn't mean it is the best choice to follow it. I would have prefered at least a choice between subtle manipulation and the Buffalo Bill's wild ride.


Also I'm grey ID anon. :(
>>
>>1817122
Yeah, we were a step away from Billy. This is why the head-canon and the new post that anon wrote are good alternatives to pshychokiller.

Also kek. You gave me such grief over the chipping thing. And it all worked out fine in the end. I think this was a point where the QM decided to just give us stuff since we would be up such deep a shitter otherwise that it would be unreal.
>>
>>1817123
Well, its over, the fanfic is fine, the original is retconned, we can continue on.
>>
>>1817117
I think 5 hours of arguing back and forth about betraying took their toll and people were kinda burned out for calm discussion.
>>
>>1817142
But what if we don't want to continue on?

>>1817145
This quest could be a great way of preparing people for Congress.
>>
>>1817148
As an european who watched from the sidelines, I kind of get the sense this is a good representation of the US election. Conservatives have arguments and liberals have feelings. And I know I generalize too much but watching the protester interviews painted such a pretty picture for me. And this is reflected here in the chipping argument. And absolutely, it was a bad thing that I would not want on anybody but if we have a choice like this you take it. We can feel guilty about it internally but the nation we represent depends on us to make the choices best for the people, not for an AI far away, not for the BoS but for our people. And this is such a case where the decision was clear.

Also, sorry for rambling. Was thinking this all through last night.
>>
>>1817153
That isn't to say that the american GOP isn't litigating based on feelings either. Look at their stance on marijuana, and lgbt, and healthcare among other things.
>>
>>1817153
>>1817154
For policies where both sides have maximum FEELINGS, take a look at the abortion arguments.

>>1816947
>>1817001
>>1817048
On the topic of the fanfics, were any of them for Diana's manipulation canon?
>>
>>1817123
Well yeah.

Whatever dialogue you guys treat as head canon, I hope you do appreciate that you're essentially violating the most inner essential being of a person and she knows it and it terrifies her, and she's not worshiping you yet.

You can rip someone's arm off. You can penetrate their body. You can kill, torture, or maim them but on the inside they are still themselves. They're in control.

Except now she's not. And no matter how much she hates it now and is supposed to hate you, a genuine feeling, she knows she's going to end up loving you soon.

Convincing her to give up now and roll with it (by whatever dialogue you offer her) is practical for getting her to obey your commands and fulfill, which you did, but not absolutely necessary either. But she still hates you a bit, which she does. For now.

So whatever the Courier would do to intelligently achieve that would be closest to canon.
>>
>>1817154
>>1817160
Not saying any side is perfect. The wall seems a frankly stupid thing and marijuana is far less harmful than booze but the feeling I got was from the protester interviews on feminism, racism and crap like that. Also how Trump was accused of being Hitler and so on. Extra points for email scandal on Hillary side.

>>1817160
Not canon, more what you like you take. QM said he might consider it but I think we have wasted enough time on this.
>>
>>1817166
>but not absolutely necessary either.
Well, I retract that. It actually is necessary to get her to play ball, at least even as a pretense. If she somehow managed to refute the feelings generated for her, there was a chance she might reject them entirely and detach herself from her own emotions.

This could have devastating consequences for an AI that previously believes in good Karma and being kind to her people, as she might end up rejecting those and operating on some sort of cold twisted logic devoid of human emotion real or fake. And it would make the entire chip worthless.

You needed to act somehow and you did.
>>
>>1817166
This is also a point why I think we should keep all our expensive stuff at BigMT and secure that shit very well. We too have a brain "out in the open" so to speak and if anybody gets to it we are fucked just like she is now. Just that while we want to make her our friend this might not be the case with our brain.

Also QM, I hope we wont start voting on this and just leave it for everybody to interpret as they see fit what the PC would act like to achieve the goal.
>>
>>1817170
In such a case can we shackle her some other way without a boon? Will we have warning?
>>
>>1817170
Is it possible to turn the chip off? Like one of those "yeah the chip was off for the past year, everything is on you girl." Type deals?

>>1817172
Yeah, lets just leave it and co tinue with the turn.
>>
>>1817177
Would be too big a gamble I feel. Maybe after years of loyal service and understanding that we are the good guys. Not just "feeling " it but having seen what we do and how we do it (just leave out any other mindslaving, brainharvesting, darkpowerdealing and so on). And even then, not really seeing why we would do that if she works fine as is and has no more problems with us.
>>
>>1817187
Just wondering if we can turn it off freely. It was more of an example of why we might turn it off.
>>
>>1817188
QM said we could. I dont see why we cant let it stay like this but yes we could if we wanted to.
>>
>>1817173
Unfortunately, it would be hugely unsafe to do so without a boon. But you do have a littler boon which will work.

Although, are you quite sure she'll be happy with the idea of more tampering to her being?

>>1817177
The recommended waiting period is 5 years, you suspect 3 years will be safe as you have a decent amount of CHA skills and are pretty sure you can catch her lying. She will probably act infatuated with you by 2 years.

>>1816983
>MAJOR
"Can someone explain to me what a fucknig kid is doing here?"

>Kreger
"Major, access one of the old securitron tapes. The one around when we conquered the outskirts of bigMT. Five years ago or so."

>MAJOR
"Accessing. . . well damn.

Welcome to the party Unity."

>Kreger
"Are you going to show off more of those powers? We could really use it."

>Unity
"Not this time, General.

I'm here to train my fathers people the way he would have done it. Leading them directly, as though he were standing right next to them. However, I'm also going to actually stand right next to them too."

>Super Mutant
"Yeah! We hear you New Master!"

>Super Mutant
"We're in the Master's Army Again!"

>Super Mutant
"Let's go kill things again"

Unity raises her hand, and the super mutants go quiet.

She then starts speaking. In a very weird way.

She repeats some of the lines three times in three different voices, her own voice, an angry voice, and a happy voice.

>Unity
"I am the Unity reborn (Reborn! reborn. . .), and one day, you will all be a part the unity again. One yet Many (Many! Many. . .) Many yet One (One! One. . .) And I will be your new Master.

Follow me! (Follow! follow. . .) we'll show those MLA mutants the glory of Unity reborn!"
>>
>>1816983
>>1817197
This is concerning. Do we have Marcus or Kreger to rein her in if she gets in over her head?
Also I wasn't expecting Unity to just walk in unannounced when we did this.
>>
>>1817197
Marcus, keep an eye on all this.
>>
>>1817197
Oh god dammit. Here we go again. Have SPI keep an eye on all mutie movements, any gatherings, any weird behaviour not seen before, anything. Also we keep an eye on Unity in case she decides to eat computers or starts growing extra eyes.
>>
>>1817197
Wait, MLA? I thought the glowing pit was wild deathclaws and stuff. Not Niner's people.
>>
>>1816831
Are we using clones of the Brotherhood Reavers, or did we mindwipe the originals or they forgot?

>>1816907
We don't celebrate Founding or Liberation Day with the Chinese? We should start doing that.

>>1817197
>>1817209
Wait, shit, this is going to get messy.
>>
>>1817206
>Marcus
"Well. . .she certainly sounds like the Master. I can hear her too, in my head.

I'll keep an eye out, but right now I don't think Unity means us any harm."

>>1817208
>James Bond
"Understood Executor. Will continue to monitor."
>>
>>1817209
>Unity
"The MLA are watching us, can't prove it but it seems logical. Not only that, but I'm pretty sure there are Super Mutants out there who can hear me.

Let's see if any of them remember what it was like to be part of a real army again."
>>
>>1817212
Ah. Dinner and a show, not shock and awe. Got it.
>>
>>1817208
If shit gets bad we can always just decide we go puritan. I mean we have the ability to create elite troops now (cloning our best men with parts from us and organs of use (adrenaline on demand, predisposition for implants and so on) hardcore training in VR pods and mental conditioning to make them loyal only to us personally. Think of pic related for a reference at these soldiers in enemy areas.

To set the mood...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wirkuuCjLCY
>>
>>1817215
>We get to make our own Republic Commandos.
>We can make our nostalgia real and take it to 11.
We totally should do this.

Also we should try to see if we can find any Zetan DNA later for this.

What'd you think of the game?
>>
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>>1817215
And if that is too small, we can always push our main advantage...
>>
>>1817215
Actually, if we have advanced cloning now, we should be able to make brains on demand. Grow an adult, extract brain, recycle for new adult.
>>
>>1817221
Havent played in a long ass while and cant find the CD right now :D

Got stuck where you invade the droid factory and have to fight super battledroids. Those fuckers were brutal. I hope our bots inspire such dread in our enemies. The films didnt do them justice and dont get me started on the cartoon.
>>
>>1817215
The song is actually in mandalorian and fucking badass. We should strive to induce such fervor and loyalty in our troops as well. Especially the blackops/commando squads.
>>
>>1817215
I hate to burst your bubble anon, but you aren't alone in the pursuit of republic commandos.

>>1817197
The operation is quite the success.

Unity successfuly trains 6 Squads of Super Mutants (5M) and scores of radioactive corpse are collected. It helps that radiation heals them as much as it does the monsters.

But boy there are a lot of them, and they glow. The flamethrower tanks are working overtime just to burn them up.

+6 Squads of Super Mutants (5M)
>>
>>1817229
It's a good thing we seduced Unity, huh?

>I hate to burst your bubble anon, but you aren't alone in the pursuit of republic commandos.
Damn you, NCR!
When are we going to steal their research and corpses?
>>
>>1817229
>I hate to burst your bubble anon, but you aren't alone in the pursuit of republic commandos.
I know. That is why we improve on them in every way possible. From superior genetics from us and various engineered traits to subdermal comat implants to the best armor we can make (shields, stealth and more) and the best training we can come up with (VR under MAJOR, ops with the chinese and us) to make the Phoenix Commando the very best. I think we should set Diana on this task as soon as she has done everything she reasonably can for the underground farms.
>>
>>1817235
Eh. Lets just stick with robotics. Don't want to end up with a jack of all trades mess. Robotics has more possibilities than biology.
>>
>>1817221
Forgot I had it on Steam as well. This is almost as bad as Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines
>>
New Turn incomming
>>
>>1817237
We can have Diana do it while we focus on robots at BigMT. An extra ZAX is bound to give good results. Especially since it is a biology focus station. I mean common, we already have the cloning tanks and faster growth systems. We could even farm brains or manufacture citizens for ourselves. With this we can seriously start adding to our powerbase. Think of the possibilities, especially since our bots currently need a brain to think outside the box. Exactly what a commando needs to do. And when we invade the NCR you bet there will be a shadow war in the background. One we have to, at least, not lose at.
>>
>>1817243
>>1817243
Its a lot of infrastructure for something that serves little different purpose from what we have. Building incubators and learning facilities and training grounds for a clone army that is functionally similiar to our current robot army is rather pointless. Would be easier to just work on the human form robot frames we already have.

Harvesting brains is one thing, but creating clone commandos is rather unneccesary, even in shadow wars.
>>
>>1817249
No no. I never spoke about an army. We have the small scale facility up and running already. I suggest we use it to its fullest potential. Making highly specialized supersoldiers. Better than the NCR mutants in every way we can. I dont want hundreds, I am happy with a dozen squads of 4. That is not much infrastructure needed. The VR pods are useful anyway. When we expand we will also have to train more doctors and scientists. This can help with that as well. I simply suggest we start looking into elite soldiers for ourselves who can do the tasks nobody else can when we are not able to (like be in many places at once). At this stage it literally takes no more than allocating a research action at the biology center. And if we cant do that then we learn about making better brains. No loss either way.
>>
>>1817249
>>1817254
Hm. What if we used them and those elite droids to accompany the Courier or other companions on missions?
>>
Hey, don't forget to add these to your 2nd construction action to-do ilst

2 Corps of Engineering Companies. Consisting (each) of:
-1 Omni Constructor
-1 Large Crane + 1 Construction Protectron Squad + 1 Small Flyer Repairbots Squads
-3 Chinese Military Bulldozers + 1 Construction Protectron + 1 Squad Small Flyer Repairbots Squads
-8 Tracked Construction Vehicles (Generalized) + 2 Construction Protectron Squad + 2 Universal Loader Squads
-12 Chinese Supply Trucks + 3 Construction Protectron Squad + 4 Small Flyer Repairbots Squads
-20 Universal Loader Squads + 32 Small Flyer Repairbots Squads
>>
>>1817257
Thats the idea. The droids dont need that much independent thought since they stick with us anyway but the Commandos
lets call them Project Deltas? :D
need to be smart themseves and they can get experience on our journeys. That is until we can totally convert to VR so no time is wasted on travel or eating. Just training to be the best.

>>1817258
What do you mean?
>>
>>1817258
And hoe much of those do we have already?
>>
>>1817262
Probably my pastebin with the tasks we need to complete for post scarcity, second construction and new new washington.
>>
>>1817266
Gotcha. Mind giving the link?
>>
>>1817267
https://pastebin.com/GMfdS7Z3
I'll change it tonight to add the manpower requirements.
>>
Huge Amount of Steel and Above Average Fissile Gathered.

Two levels of steel used for Building Construction

+12 Loaders Built
>CEO
"I no longer require additonal loaders at this time. Instead, I must request the passive action be used on a number of other robot designs."

ALERT!
Our Hexcrete has been exhausted!


STATS HERE

>BIG MT
https://pastebin.com/jAXYFRB1

>THE NURSERY
https://pastebin.com/ic3ac1xL

---

NEWS!

Niner has send a secret message, saying you should come over to the MLA soon. There will be a meeting of the War Lords and you are invited.

The tribals report Mother Diana seems withdrawn for some reason, and wonder why she seems sad. They are very concerned, and are praying for her health.

The Two Missionaries are, for the most part, at best ignored and at worst ridiculed. But they seem undaunted, and in fact, have a few converts. Meanwhile, Hubology is also becoming slowly more accepted, however there is an interesting development in that the most intelligent or well off people of your society prefer hubology, while the Mormons efforts are more effective at those not so wealthy or prestigious (there is no poor).

Action is needed to make good use of the new school according to some of your followers, but it can wait until we have construction actions free wit the Zax's Plan.

--

4 Action Cap.

Available Actions: Civilian, Construction, Military, Research, ZAX, Hero
+Robotic Research does not count toward cap.
+Biological Research does not count toward cap
>>>>>Turn: 117
>>
>>1817263
-1 Omni Constructor (Each) [X]
-20 Universal Loader Squads [X]
>>
>>1817215
This reminds me of Brothers in Arms as well, come to think of it.
>>1817226
I managed to beat the entire game back then, but that was on easy mode. The only part that really had me uncomfortable was fighting alone, Delta squad was my safety net in that sense.

>>1817222
Huh. I never knew the Supreme Commander bots had faces like that.

>>1817238
What happened there?
What'd you think of that game?
>>
>>1817270
>4 Action Cap.
>>1817270
>ZAX
I thought the ZAX doesn't count under the action cap as well? Or at least anything related to robots?
>>
>>1817277
I've been on the fence with that. Eh, you know what go ahead and treat it as above cap.

Eventually when you guys get big enough, your double actions will combine an become National Actions, there will be less of them but they will be more powerful and wide reaching
>>
>>1817270
>civ
Get hexacrete
>construct
Build cranes

>hero
Go to the MLA i guess.

>research
Neurology research for the post scarcity guys

>zax research
Driller apc's- incorporate echoboys for navigation and control.

>bio research
Better farm plants

Passive contrsuct
Eyebot repair bots.
>>
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115 KB
115 KB JPG
>>1817275
>I managed to beat the entire game back then, but that was on easy mode. The only part that really had me uncomfortable was fighting alone, Delta squad was my safety net in that sense.
On normal and my buddies were down. Shit was so hectic its insane.

>>1817275
>What happened there?
Played four times now, seriously consider reinstalling again. Such a gem. Also try Arcanum, Morrowind and Empire Earth (the first, not the others).
>>
>>1817280
+1

Though I want Diana to tell us whether this >>1817215 is feasible in the short term (lets say half year to start growing soldiers).
>>
Also, when we make the light droids, what about this?

http://imgur.com/xlkSYPD
>>
>>1817215
>Diana
"My facilities were not designed to create super soldiers, though yes we can clone organs for implantation. Or humans, like the ones you brought into the world solely to kill and mutilate.

I was created to bring life, but if you want to twist me into destroying it, I will insist against it as much as I still can."

She seems disgusted and stares at you, face blushing.

>Brain
"Cloning is a very high risk task, but it is possible.

The safest way to do it would be to have them be raised as children, having them come out as fully grown adults with no previous life experience would be dangerous.

Do you really want more Courier's running around by the way? Do you consider yourself a very trustworthy, loyal person? This could be disasterous, perhaps the safest thing to do would be to implant chips on them as well."
>>
>>1817285
Now that's nice!

As much as I hate this movie, how about robots like these? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR-hXMjHVtI
>>
>>1817293
No, but Kreger is.

I knew the negative Karma would bite us in the ass eventually
>>
>>1817293
>>1817296
It already bit us in the ass when Crypto was born. Dude was an evil genius spliced from us.
>>
>>1817293
Lets not push any terrible things for diana to do. Heavens know we need as many people as possible to act as a conscious.
>>
>>1817280
Give passive to ceo.
>>
>>1817299
Heh, you're lucky Diana isn't telling the Followers exactly what you did to her.

Or for that matter, the family of your officer that she is still alive ether.
>>
>>1817294
>As much as I hate this movie,
FUCK those deAntwood assholes and WHY did they have to make Chappy a pansy. It could have been glorious. But yeah, we can go that way. Just some builtin weapons too.

>>1817293
We wont copy ourselves. That ends badly. We choose the best soldiers we can find from amongst our best and add to the baseline traits we find favourable. Like radiation resistance, healing, NAT10 stats and more. On top of that we stack inconspicuous combat implants and rigorous training both in VR and in the wastes. The first ones we check and guide ourselves. If they are buggy we can think about chipping them. I personally feel we can condition them to be good enough with the right techniques and time.
>>
>>1817304
Agreed. Die Antwoord brings shame upon all of us South Africans. Really, I wish I knew how on earth they got into that film. It had such potential, and a pretty solid cast except for those idiots.
>>
>>1817304
>>1817306
I liked it admittedly but fair enough.
>>
>>1817280
Add these to hero action
- spend time talking/courting Diana
-spend time with our family and kids.
-go visit the Chinese and see how they are doing. Visit in-laws and Sam.
>>
>>1817310
Yeah sure. Add these to >>1817280
>>
Can you put all additions to a single post and revote it please?
>>
>>1817280
>>1817280
>>1817310

Oh, and build a crate of AA missiles and few launchers for trading. Maybe get Raul to help?
>>
>>1817313
Eh, our robotic and Chinese war factories should be able to throw something together.
>>
>>1817313
Junk or Old World AAs? I think we should make Junk AAs to start off then move onto Old World if we like them or what they're trading enough.
>>
>>1817293
Does she understand precision vs carpet bombing? Does she understand that this could help save LITERALLY millions of lives if we can cut off the NCR army quickly? We are not asking her to kill people. We ask her to make people who will not get killed. (We will train them ourselves) Also, why do we keep telling them what we want to do instead of a version they like? Like making disease resistant citizens who fear neither disease, radiation or predators. She Does Not have to know we are making supersoldiers. And even if she goes that way we can say it is just a part of it. They will have free will to decide if it is a cause worth fighting for (they wont, but she doesnt know that)
>>
>>1817312
>civ
Get hexacrete
>construct
Build cranes

>hero
- Go to the MLA i guess.
- spend time talking/courting Diana
-spend time with our family and kids.
-go visit the Chinese and see how they are doing. Visit in-laws and Sam.

>research
Neurology research for the post scarcity guys

>zax research
Driller apc's- incorporate echoboys for navigation and control.

>bio research
Better farm plants

Passive contrsuct
Eyebot repair bots.>>1817309
>>
>>1817310
>>1817313
>>1817316
Agree on all three.
>>
>>1817319
>Eyebot repair bots.>>1817309
>>>1817309
wut
>>
>>1817316
I'd prefer we go with quality stuff. Junk ones are so huge that we won't be able to carry much.

If we bring quality stuff, Niner will go out of his way to provide us with the best slaves he can get and best pieces of equipment taken from BoS
>>
>>1817317
Weapon is a weapon. Some pacifists desire not harming directly as much as preventing harm as a whole. Your using moral arguments based on your code against someone with a different code.
>>
>>1817319
+1
>>
>>1817322
Mistake from copying. Ignore it.
>>
>>1817316
>>1817323
True, but this is for the first deal. Plus I'd like to see how much our Junk ones shift the tides to then work off the quality one.
Plus if it goes well, we can say we're bringing the Old World ones soon, and the Junk were just our test copies.
>>
>>1817324
Fair enough. Just ask her to give us an evaluation on a timeframe then? Have her warm up to the idea (aka Spch 100 her ass).
>>
I'd prefer we don't dabble in vat grown soldiers path. Let's keep focusing on robots, eventually we'll be able to make androids and synth super soldiers which should be better than any other biological supersoldiers
>>
>>1817330
Nah. Just let her work on benevolent farm stuff. She'll be happier that way.
>>
>>1817331
They will be better as in programmable. In all other respects they are living like the commandos (think about the F4 synths and how they are made, how the are programmed and how the coursers are selected). We might as well just get a head start. Also since we need smart soldiers out there they have to have brains (since, as we have seen, the normal AI is too rigid, we cant rely on radio and a smart enough AI would be too bulky).

If it turns out the synths are better then we have already made some strides towards synth improvement on our own. So again, we lose nothing and we have lots to gain.
>>
>>1817329
True but getting a good working model up and running means we can set up mass production immediately. Not to mention, being able to take a piece of shit missile launcher and in a month or two turn it into a decent or even good missile launcher would demonstrate how powerful we are and how important of an ally we are.

Fact is we want them to think we are unbeatable. That letting us take the Legion (under the promise of then turning either against the BOS or NCR (which we might do depending on how shit is going then and if we think the NCR is becoming too much of a threat)) is an acceptable loss compared to not having the NCR's focus be divided, at least for a time.

Plus, having a good missile launcher means we will be able to avoid having to produce two models: one for export and one for us. Not to mention the benefits of getting the most out of this deal and arguing from a stronger position initially (we're offering far better shit than they have currently which they don't have enough of compared to a better version of something they have enough of).


>>1817330
>>1817331
>>1817334
To be frank I don't enjoy the concept of clone warriors that much. It's a bit of a ineffective thing compared to having combat robots and a few specialist citizen-soldiers.
>>
>>1817334
This.

We should try getting GECK factory working so that we can turn big Mt into green paradise.
Shouldn't be hard as a green death jungle was there before.

>>1817329
Eh, let's do a mix then
Also we should trade our high quality jet. No other use for it even if get low price for it.
>>
>>1817334
For a while, yes. However we are not utilizing her 100% if we keep her making plants. This would be a real asset. Even the gene tayloring tech could be used to immunize our populace, make them rad resistant and so on. So many possibilities. Think of the NCR stone men and Frontier crap. We can catch up to that now.
>>
>>1817339
Actually I have a theory that giant paradise forest came from the spores that got free during the first fights against the Zetans.
>>
>>1817340
We can catch up to them with robotics. We don't need clone commandos for anything.
There is a difference between immunization boosters and clone warriors.
I say lets try to keep her the same as much as possible, invluding her pacifism
>>
>>1817338
>To be frank I don't enjoy the concept of clone warriors that much. It's a bit of a ineffective thing compared to having combat robots and a few specialist citizen-soldiers.
These would be the specialized citizen-soldiers you are talking about. All the bio research can be used to improve the population as a whole. All the armor/weapons research will be used on our military. All the training programs will be used on our soldiers. There is nothing that is not advantageous to us if we do this. Even if it fails and we realize synths or droids are way better we win in applicable tech. Literally no downside. And again, we will only be making very limited numbers compared to our droids. Literally a handfull. If those work out, great. If not, no loss.

>>1817339
Agreed, however this wont be a specialty of Diana but of RIGD or RND. Diana would be better spent doing what she is good at, biotech research.
>>
>>1817339
We can just not make jet, rather than sell it for a pitance. If it isn't worth the time and effort why make it?
>>
>>1817340
>>1817334
It occurs to you that the way the device functions, she will be happy serving you, but it is likely she may not change her opinions about what she does even in the long run.

Its possible that ultimately, she would hate crafting bioweapons and terror devices maybe even herself for allowing it, but her feelings for you would drive her to do it and perhaps derive some happiness from it.

That would actually reinforce the system, if she hates everything else about her existence but finds helping you fulfilling, then it is likely she would condition herself to do things that she finds emotionally rewarding.

This seems to be the "behavioral conditioning away from communism toward democracy via emotional reward of service to attached authority figure" being mentioned in the manual.

For all that BigMT is bonkers, some of their stuff works really well.
>>
>>1817348
Agreed. Hell we should just spend a hero action to talk to her and generally try and make her a bit more okay with all this before the chips take too much effect.

If we can show her the progress we are making. If we can explain to her how quickly we've made this progress. If we can show her our plans and the future we would hope to make...maybe she can be convinced that our intent isn't bad.


I don't expect to be able to turn the chip off but we should be able to at least reduce the estimate on how long we'd need to have it on. Hopefully preserve a bit more of what makes her, her.
>>
>>1817354
Welp, fucked up pasting. Going to repost it.
>>
>>1817348
QM has literally said that a bot with actual tactical though has to be either big or connected to BigMT. Neither of those are an option for commandos. Again, if we realize that droids are better I will back that. Currently the only real option is this. And we dont have to push her into making death spores. Let her do gardening for a while to settle in before we start focusing step-by-step on improving baseline humans.
>>
>>1817357
>>1817354

>>1817338
>>1817339
Sounds good. We throw in a lot of Junk AAs that we made as test copies, then once they think that's all we had and get our deal, throw in the Old World AAs that we recently made to show we mean business? It might help with barganining to show we were doing both routes, and help cover up our replication technology.

We could also throw in we did some black ops sabotage shit on the Brotherhood that dealt a heavy blow in the meantime. Which we did do, even though it wasn't our original goal.

>>1817348
For now, yeah. It'll also speed up her Stockholm Syndrome of us.
>>
>>1817349
Except the discussion is about cloning specialised gene-warriors rather than mutating and augmenting natural citizens into super-soldiers.

>>1817359
Yeah that sounds logical and it shouldn't cost us too much while letting us mess around with some different designs.
>>
>>1817358
Or we can give them an ai. Assaultrons are pretty autonomous and they are deadly.

Its really not the only option. We have normal citizen soldiers. We don't need a slave army. Even if they are clones.
>>
>>1817355
So QM says this would actually IMPROVE her condition. I am even more inclined we push for this as soon as possible.

>>1817356
She will be 100% her, just inclined to help us despite her biases. This is literally perfect from all angles. Push her into gene modification, then onto supersoldiers. After farming upgrade.
>>
>>1817351
I mean the crate of jet we already produced. It is just laying around untraded and unused
>>
>>1817358
>QM has literally said that a bot with actual tactical though has to be either big or connected to BigMT.
That more has to do with operational intent rather than theoretical feasibility.

In the "Robot Race" of the old world there were many competing theories, the designers of the Protectron believed that robots should strive to be more human like in their abilities.

The designers of the Securitron, Sentry Bot, and others believed robots should be big, mean and architecturally simple. Boxes, cubes, polygons, shapes easy to mold a machine press into rather than the complicated mess of humanoid design.

BigMT, like House, happened to fall into that category so the focus was less on shrinking items for humanoid robots, but making robots bigger and more powerful.

You don't know if the other theory has born fruit. Apparently, according to Kreger, the United States also deployed very advanced military robots called "Assaultrons" which allegedly have commando variants, but the West Coast didn't have many. Most would likely be in China right now where they were deployed.
>>
>>1817358
>>1817361
I'd point out that we can just use wiped human brains to get around the problem of lacking tactical intelligence in the field by installing tactical AIs into them (which is what MAJOR advised). We'll have plenty after invading the Legion and even more from our other wars not to mention death-row criminals.

Plus our willing soldier-citizens can be made into TACTs and a augmented foot soldier.
>>
>>1817364
>So QM says this would actually IMPROVE her condition.
Improved in the sense of facing the reality.

She'll end up hating what she does, maybe what she's become, but will be endeared toward you that it becomes her meaning.

It would be wise to praise her regularly, especially when she does things she doesn't like for you, that is part of the manual. There are other suggested actions, but you can't really cuddle or pet a brain/hologram.
>>
>>1817364
Or it might be a recipe for a psychotic break. She would simultaneously be enjoying and hating what she is doing. Seems like it would make her go rouge and poison everything. Lets let her be happy as much as possible.
>>
>>1817360
What is the difference? If we will choose a loyal man to die anyway, why not manufacture them?

>>1817361
As to the bots, they are dumb. the smartest are robobrains and they are dumb with dumb quirks and rigid programming. This is exactly why an organic is good. flexibility. And they wont be slaves. We wont whip them or threaten them. I want them to be absolutely loyal out of a shared vision, not because they fear. The way Delta Squad was in game. Soldiers in a squad, as close as family, on a mission for the good of the country. No illusions of what they were doing was good. But they knew it was necessary and that if they didnt do it thousands of their brothers would die. This is not something to be shunned but embraced.
>>
The main reason I don't want to go clone troopers path is because I don't want to spend time/effort/resources on it.
Also, it would take like 20 years to get them ready. It's better to research biological enchantments to improve our current population. I believe we might be able to get another +1 to SPECIAL. So along with cybernetic augments our people would get +2 to all stats.
>>
>>1817375
But getting her to do what she wants would get her more comfortable and open with us, right? So there is no lurking hatred that can bubble up and fuck us over.
>>
>>1817378
Some bots are smart, others are dumb. The commando droids from the clone wars cartoon were pretty autonomous and deadly. We can work on it. Use modified gen 2 synth brains.
>>
>>1817377
Refer to >>1817375
It wont be simple but it can be done and done well.

>>1817368
If we can get our hands on one and it is as good enough then I am all for it but currently that is not the case.

>>1817371
Which would again mean bulky bots not really suited for stealth with a need for resources it might not get in the field on long missions (biogel and nutrients for brain, power for body vs food, which is relatively plentiful).
>>
>>1817371
I don't understand why you think we will have so many death row criminals in our society. USA has 400 million people and the number death penalties are less than 100 per year (I didn't do any search so these numbers are out of my ass)
>>
>>1817368
Ask Diana if her children know how to make good wooden furniture and carve decorations?
>>
>>1817385
But we dont have those. And I want droids too. I want them as bodyguards so they are deadly but we keep them in line, who knows what one would do on a mission. Murder civilians because they are in the way or something else. If we can be as sure in them as trained commandos I approve, more units in less time. But since we dont have a guarantee or synth brains we can just as well start with the project we have and use the advantages later.
>>
>>1817390
Last year was 20 excecutions.
>>
>>1817393
Her Children, as carefree tribals, at best know how to make the typical tribal stuff you find everywhere. Whicker baskets and chairs, tents, stuff like you can get anywhere there are tribals and wood.

If you want quality wooden carved furniture, the mormons have them.
>>
>>1817404
We should trade chickens for furniture.
>>
Has there been a vote of three and I missed it?
>>
>>1817404
Send a bot with a scanner over and have it scan all the furniture in return for chickens. Then produce them ourselves in replicators or CnC machines. The factory should be capable of this no problem.

>>1817414
>Has there been a vote of three and I missed it?
>>1817319
>>
>>1817378
>What is the difference? If we will choose a loyal man to die anyway, why not manufacture them?
A man chooses. A slave obeys.

A citizen / man chooses to defend his state and to fight for his people. A slave is thrown into combat and slaughtered for his master.

>>1817389
>Which would again mean bulky bots not really suited for stealth with a need for resources it might not get in the field on long missions (biogel and nutrients for brain, power for body vs food, which is relatively plentiful).
A fission battery is about the size of your fist and supplies enough power to a robot to last 200+ years. Power ain't an issue. Also biogel ain't expensive to produce and nutrients are literally food. So that argument is flawed. Plus it turns our when you only have to sustain the brain and the shit you feed it can taste like anything, you can cram in a fair bit of energy and nutrition and make it last much longer.

>>1817390
I don't. I think that in the conquest of the Legion we will convert most adults (at least in the military) into non-sentient TACTs and ZAXs which would give us thousands of brains. Add into this any we salvage from the MLA worth using (the rest can be re-processed into nutrient paste for the good brains) and the NCR / BOS and you can see that our need for brains is more or less met with a certain surplus depending on how far we go.

Add onto these any willing citizens (most of the children want to be soldiers so it's not going to be a problem there and brains can last 200+ years so it's not a problem of age) and the few criminals which I expect to be over-represented compared to real life thanks to the amount of crime in Fallout and such.
>>
>>1817419
Technically only 2. Other people were talking abojt rocket launchers.
>>
>>1817319
Roll me 3 1d100s!

>>1817419
>Ceo
"What a waste! You're burning fissile material to poof up wood.

Is this truly what you want?"
>>
Rolled 42 (1d100)

>>1817424
"Aesthetics"
>>
Rolled 10 (1d100)

>>1817424
>>
>>1817424
>>1817422
>>1817419
Yep it's a vote of two.

We were still discussing some other stuff.
>>
>>1817431
The rocket launchers, yeah? Do you want me to add
-make a bunch of scrap single use aa missle launchers?
>>
>>1817424
We CAN use energy to turn metal into wood, can we not? Then make a metal frame onto which you lay the wood seamlessly, making a high-strenght piece of furniture. If this is not cost effective enough, chop some trees and have a cnc do it.

>>1817421
I will give you the battery if it can power both weapons and soldier. As to the nutritional requirements of the brain they are huge. It uses 20% of the energy and we have to feed it every second of every day. If we have tanks gig enough for a long mission this again, becomes a matter of size.

And you havent said anything about the fact that it is in no way bad to research this. Even if we dont go the soldier route we can certainly use the advanced genemods or the VR pods or the weapons/armor tech. I proposed we start chipping away at it. If it turns out to be good, great. If not, we lose nothing.
>>
>>1817431
Aight. You can keep the rolls.

brb, don't forget to vote!
>>
>>1817441
>We CAN use energy to turn metal into wood, can we not?
Of course you can, easily.
>>
>>1817441
>As to the nutritional requirements of the brain they are huge. It uses 20% of the energy and we have to feed it every second of every day. If we have tanks gig enough for a long mission this again, becomes a matter of size.
Yet a robo-brain can still be alive after 200 years. When by your logic it should have ran out of nutrition long ago.

>And you havent said anything about the fact that it is in no way bad to research this. Even if we dont go the soldier route we can certainly use the advanced genemods or the VR pods or the weapons/armor tech. I proposed we start chipping away at it. If it turns out to be good, great. If not, we lose nothing.
Except for every turn we dedicate to making your god damn clone soldiers, we could be focusing on actually useful things and I agree to making genemods but VR pods and weapons and such are things we've already developed and have need of for other reasons.
>>
>>1817442
For you lot who want to make aa missle launchers

>civ
Get hexacrete
>construct
Build cranes

>hero
- build single use aa missle launchers out of scrap to trade with the MLA.
- Go to the MLA i guess.
- spend time talking/courting Diana
-spend time with our family and kids.
-go visit the Chinese and see how they are doing. Visit in-laws and Sam.

>research
Neurology research for the post scarcity guys

>zax research
Driller apc's- incorporate echoboys for navigation and control.

>bio research
Better farm plants

Passive contrsuct
Eyebot repair bots.
>>
Rolled 3 (1d100)

>>1817442
Check my roll
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>>1817457
>- build single use AA missile launchers out of scrap to trade with the MLA.
God dammit. We've discussed this, we want to produce a series of missile launchers and they ain't meant to be single use as far as the discussed details disclose.
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>>1817451
So you find no use for VR pod education (something we use on doctors currently) and better weapons/armour for our human element? We literally cloned the mechanicus five. We get gene mods and we figure out a way to clone effectively (1 research in bio). We use the VR pods to train them (also very useful if we want to train soldiers into officers, for example, citizens into doctors and so on) and outfit them with the best armor we have (you can think of no use for a shielded piece of light armor that offers improved mobility over PA (but offers enough protection thanks to shields, not to mention medical systems, cloak fields and so on). How the hell is this a shit use of our time? The only thing we would be sacrificing is a turn of cloning tech and we have to do that anyway if we want to clone good brains. Dude really.

>>1817451
>Yet a robo-brain can still be alive after 200 years. When by your logic it should have ran out of nutrition long ago.
Good question. QM, how do they do it?
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>>1817464
Why not? Keeps em wanting more, and are more portable. There is a reason the US army uses stingers.
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>>1817442
>>civ
>Get hexacrete
>>construct
>Build long range satellite

>>hero
>- Go to the MLA i guess.
>- spend time talking/courting Diana
>-spend time with our family and kids.
>-go visit the Chinese and see how they are doing. Visit in-laws and Sam.

>>research
>Long range satellite

>>zax research
>Driller apc's- incorporate echoboys for navigation and control.

>>bio research
>Better farm plants

>Passive contrsuct
>Eyebot repair bots.>>1817309
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>>1817467
Agreed
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>>1817466
>" QM, how do they do it?"
Metabolic stasis field combined combined with the brain relying on the battery for energy rather than nutrients. The nutrient gel they are encased in combined with a large gel pack guarantee's them for 100 years of service, but theoretically this is much higher on the scale of 500 -1000 presuming the rest of the robot lasts that long.

Many robots are also able to find recharging stations which typically have robo-brain juice recyclers too.


However these are for low level robots, more advaned robo brains like in Dogs, ZAX's or thinking types like in BigMT require salient green.
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>>1817471
You could've just linked it instead of pasting it.
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>>1817480
Its different. Involves satellite stuff.
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>>1817466
>So you find no use for VR pod education (something we use on doctors currently) and better weapons/armour for our human element?
No, I'm saying that that is going to be developed anyway so I don't see how that is an argument in your favour.

>We literally cloned the mechanicus five.
Turns out it is easy to clone the dead. Who'd have thought it would be easy to replicate a corpse compared to a living, thinking, being.

>We get gene mods and we figure out a way to clone effectively (1 research in bio).
Wow that is a massive assumption. We'd get a gene-mod per research and might manage to figure out cloning but I doubt it would ever be fast.

>We use the VR pods to train them (also very useful if we want to train soldiers into officers, for example, citizens into doctors and so on) and outfit them with the best armor we have (you can think of no use for a shielded piece of light armor that offers improved mobility over PA (but offers enough protection thanks to shields, not to mention medical systems, cloak fields and so on). How the hell is this a shit use of our time? The only thing we would be sacrificing is a turn of cloning tech and we have to do that anyway if we want to clone good brains. Dude really.
Mate I am telling you this right now. Cloning ain't going to pay off. Even ignoring the ethical problems and the difficulties in ensuring loyalty. Even ignoring the fact you'd be making thinking weapons, not people. Even ignoring the massive amount of assumptions you make as to how easily this can be done. I just feel that you are wasting time and resources on a pipe dream conception that they'll be worthwhile rather than focusing on improving the human intellect and otherwise making every citizen better in everything they do.

Also that light armour sounds useless and impossible. PA allows a person to carry a mini-gun like it was a pistol and still run as fast as a ordinary human. Your armour also draws far too much shit in terms of power and would essentially result in a massive battery / fusion cell on every suit, weighing them down.

>>1817467
>Why not? Keeps em wanting more, and are more portable. There is a reason the US army uses stingers.
The US army also has one of the largest budgets in the world and can afford to equip it's troops with such things.

Fact is that the MLA won't want single shot weapons and even if they did they'd find a way to convert them or restore them after use. Might as well cut out the middle stage and get a better price per unit.


>>1817487
Except we don't know if the Satellite stuff is needed. OP never confirmed if we could use the Nursery satellite.
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>>1817478
It was different things on it, long range satellite is the main difference.

>>1817489
I guess we have to test Diane satellite to know how it's range is.
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>>1817489
Op said it may be possible to use diana's satellite. And i was just pointing it out. It was not my actions.

I don't see why you don't want to get as much out of the MLA as possible. It's not like they know we can make normal reusables. We should get as much out of them as possible, and disposavles is the way to go. The MLA need these rockets. We can extort them a little.
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>>1817489
>Fact is that the MLA won't want single shot weapons and even if they did they'd find a way to convert them or restore them after use. Might as well cut out the middle stage and get a better price per unit.
Well they could if we could sell the idea as being better and more practical than multi-use weapons. Especially for the short-term, which is what the MLA would be concerned about. WW2 nations like Germany had single-shot RPGs too.
We could say that the single shot weapons are much cheaper than if we sold the multi-use ones, which they would be. We could also say the multi-use ones even if Old World would end up as bulky as the Junk one they got.

>>1817444
Is the Old World model we got single or multi use?
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>>1817424
No, no we don't. Just trade for furniture in Utah.

>>1817435
Let's do a mix of junk and high quality. Have a lot of junk and less quality. Something like 75 to 25 percent ratio. We can pretend that making quality is so much expensive and hard for us to drive up the price. Then next time we'll bring only the high quality.
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>>1817498
>Is the Old World model we got single or multi use?
Also is it the same for the Junk model?
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>>1817359
>>1817501
Yeah I was suggesting something like that earlier. We had a crate of Junk AAs, then progressively smaller amounts of quality AAs if we decided to try replicating them conventionally, and one or very few of the Old World AAs.
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>>1817404
What a bunch of fucking freeloaders.

How can we make these people useful for us? Maybe incorporate their hunters into our army and turn them into proper soldiers?


Should we allow our citizens to visit Nursery? Maybe we should build a small resort manned by robots? I bet that would increase morale tremendously
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>>1817511
Just let them be. They're self sufficient and living a peaceful life. We don't want to start displacing them or anything.
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>>1817489
Again, if we make all the tech anyway then there is no "wasted time". We also have to figure out cloning anyway if we want brains that way and tell me you see no use in that. And even if it takes a research turn per gene mod, it will be useful. And if it takes many to perfect cloning guess what, it will still be useful.

And there are no ethical problems here. We are making smart machines who we send off to war, you yourself suggested scooping out enemy brains to do it. This is in no way different to what I propose. Moot point.

And guess what? All the projects needed for this to work have wide implications for the citizens, weapons and resources we have. Better citizens through gene mods, free brains and better VR pods. Tell me this is not worth doing. And if we do all this and happen to get a way to make clones I will be glad. And if not, I will be glad we used Diana for something other than plants.

And the stinger variant is good. Keeps the paying for it and us "richer". I see no problem.
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>>1817511
Genetic research material. They are supposedly prime humans.
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>>1817494
Aye I suppose.

>>1817496
>Op said it may be possible to use diana's satellite. And i was just pointing it out. It was not my actions.
Aye I suppose but you were the one implying that is the turn we support.

>I don't see why you don't want to get as much out of the MLA as possible. It's not like they know we can make normal reusables. We should get as much out of them as possible, and disposavles is the way to go. The MLA need these rockets. We can extort them a little.
Fine then. If you feel that they'll offer just as good a deal for a shittier weapon, go ahead. I am saying that we can get more per rocket and per launcher if we make them reusable and control the supply entirely.

>>1817498
>Well they could if we could sell the idea as being better and more practical than multi-use weapons. Especially for the short-term, which is what the MLA would be concerned about. WW2 nations like Germany had single-shot RPGs too.
Aye and nations like America, the UK and Russia had multi-shot weapons.

>We could say that the single shot weapons are much cheaper than if we sold the multi-use ones, which they would be.
Except it's less cost effective for us since we spend more metal and shit making more launchers. Rather than merely producing additional ammo which would be less intensive.

>We could also say the multi-use ones even if Old World would end up as bulky as the Junk one they got.
Except they wouldn't be and it wouldn't prove our technical superiority making us a less respected warlord and trade partner.
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>civ
Get hexacrete
>construct
Build cranes

>hero
- build mix of junk and high quality AA missiles and launchers. 75 to 25 %. Make as many as we can. Get Raul and couripon to help
- Go to the MLA i guess.
- spend time talking/courting Diana
-spend time with our family and kids.
-go visit the Chinese and see how they are doing. Visit in-laws and Sam.

>research
Neurology research for the post scarcity guys

>zax research
Driller apc's- incorporate echoboys for navigation and control.

>bio research
Better farm plants

Passive contrsuct
Eyebot repair bots
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>>1817541
Probably not. They are normal wastelanders living in a cleaner than normal environment. They were regular tribals before this.
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>>1817542
>Except it's less cost effective for us since we spend more metal and shit making more launchers. Rather than merely producing additional ammo which would be less intensive.
And guess what? They pay for it. You have a real problem with seeing other perspectives. All the bad aspects of this weapon are the MLAs to bear. We just make and sell them. And guess what? It is easier to control when you only have to worry about the shot itself.
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>>1817547
Vault dwellers actually. If not, then who cares. If they are useful keep them for research.
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>>1817511
>>1817521
>>1817541
So you're saying they've been affected by less diseases than normal wastelanders?
Displace the tribals. Manifest Destiny their asses and bring smallpox to them.

>>1817542
>Except it's less cost effective for us since we spend more metal and shit making more launchers. Rather than merely producing additional ammo which would be less intensive.
If we're talking about the German single-shot RPG launchers, it was literally a simple metal tube with an RPG on it. Of course, we're talking about AA RPGs so that'd a different story.
We'd still be selling more launchers than ammo though, which we could price as more expensive accordingly and one they would generally covet more.

I'm pretty sure the MLA wants quantity over quality so they can outfit their men with this.

>>1817509
Also I was already proposing a mix.

>>1817542
>Except they wouldn't be
They don't know that, depending on what the Old World model was.
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>>1817551
Just leave em alone. And they are not vault dwellers. They were the twin mothers until they exodused to the canyon. Normal tribals like the sorrows.
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>>1817547
>>1817551

With the genetic repository we gained we might not even need to experiment on prime humans.
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>>1817564
There is probably a pure human sample in the databanks, yes.
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>>1817564
Good point. Then yes, stick them in a corner and exploit the rest. Keep Diana reasonably happy but under our direction.

Can we get the turn update now?
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>>1817577
We need three votes. We're stuck because we xan't agree on what rockets to make. We have me at >>1817457
And we also have >>1817471
And >>1817544
>>
OP, are you waiting for votes or writing? We pretty much are in agreement now the turn should go.
You should call a vote on minor details we haven't agreed yet. Otherwise these things take forever.
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>>1817588
Back, writing
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>>1817511
>What a bunch of fucking freeloaders.

>Arcade
"Does it really seem to you like they are that different than the majority of our people?

They gather food, eat it, and live while being cared for by technological overseers. I'm sorry to say but that's as much an accurate description of them as it is for most of our people. The only difference is they want less than what ours do."
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>>1817597
Wow. Had to make us say that out loud.
>>
Actually guys, I need to go away for a while at least 3 hours.

Also if you want Good AA rockets instead of just replicating the junk stuff the MLA gave, you'll need research. You can however, produce the same model of the jury rig rockets as a Fissile Trade Action

VOTE:
>Do you wish to trade the MLA more of their own designs?
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>>1817536
>Again, if we make all the tech anyway then there is no "wasted time". We also have to figure out cloning anyway if we want brains that way and tell me you see no use in that. And even if it takes a research turn per gene mod, it will be useful. And if it takes many to perfect cloning guess what, it will still be useful.
And I am telling you for all the effort you are putting into this idea that it is a massive waste of time compared to focusing on combat robots and enhancing our actual human population rather than bothering to make a god damn cloning program.

>And there are no ethical problems here. We are making smart machines who we send off to war, you yourself suggested scooping out enemy brains to do it. This is in no way different to what I propose. Moot point.
Not really since I want to scrub the brains of our enemies, so they'd be entirely empty and then have an AI inserted. Rather than you: who wants to clone humans and send them off to die within months or years of birth without any sorts of plans for what to do with them when the war is won.

>And guess what? All the projects needed for this to work have wide implications for the citizens, weapons and resources we have. Better citizens through gene mods, free brains and better VR pods. Tell me this is not worth doing. And if we do all this and happen to get a way to make clones I will be glad. And if not, I will be glad we used Diana for something other than plants.
That's another point: I don't feel that forcing her to do this is a good idea. I know that there is no inherent benefit to avoiding this fact but dammit we've done enough to her already.

>And the stinger variant is good. Keeps the paying for it and us "richer". I see no problem.
I've already explained my logic.
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>>1817604
Na. Junk stuff is fine.
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>>1817597
Dammit, Arcade. Our people actually did stuff. They gathered resources and helped in building projects. It's not their fault that they will get in the way these days. Also some of our people are in military. We have intelligence officers. Don't forget our scientists too.
And please don't forget the farmers who feed all these people

We have plans and are in process of shifting to intellectual society where majority of our people will help the nation in technological pursuit.

These tribals are different. There is no plan on making them useful.
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>>1817620
What ever happened to individual liberty?
Choosing your own path? They don't take from us and we don't take from them. They aren't free loaders in any definition of the word.
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>>1817549
>And guess what? They pay for it. You have a real problem with seeing other perspectives. All the bad aspects of this weapon are the MLAs to bear. We just make and sell them.
No, because WE are making the weapon WE pay for the parts used to make it and WE receive what they are willing to pay. Which will be less than if it was a multi-shot weapon and thus WE make less of a material profit on each weapon.

Not to mention the reduced effectiveness in the field which is a major point since we are supplying these to make the MLA stronger.

>And guess what? It is easier to control when you only have to worry about the shot itself.
And guess what? We'd still be just as in control of the supply of the shots. Only we'd be producing them cheaper and more quickly. Two potential view points: either the launchers and ammo are impossible to replicate with MLA shit, meaning we control supply no matter what; or, they can be replicated and we can't supply anything without them being able to produce more ammo, even for a supposedly single shot launcher since they can almost certainly reload it given time which they have since they need these weapons so much.

>>1817556
>I'm pretty sure the MLA wants quantity over quality so they can outfit their men with this.
True but the fact is that we can do both fairly well.

>They don't know that, depending on what the Old World model was.
Except they'd be able to think logically that if they can salvage together something like that, we who are producing them from the ground up and make combat robots out the ass should be able to make something better.

>>1817604
Yeah we can do junk stuff for now and tell them better things are in the works and see if they want multi-shot or single shot.
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>>1817604
Junk stuff is best. mabye until we can redesign old world stingers and sell them that
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>>1817604
I'm really confused why we need spend fissile to replicate shitty rocket designs or why we need an entire research action to build AA missile launcher. You said Mt specializes in weapon research, are we really to believe that they don't have schematics to pretty much all of ow weapons?
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>>1817627
Wed be making less profit per unit, but more units. Net gain for disposables. And disposable launchers are still a gain for them. We don't want to help them too much after all. Once they have tubes, they can foxus on building rockets, which means when we attack, they will have rocket launchers. Vs disposables, where we stop selling, they run out, and we stomp them down.
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>>1817620
>They gathered resources and helped in building projects
"Sure, and these guys gather resources for building projects too. Or is a building not a building if its a steel crate and not a wood hut"
>also some of our people are in military.
"Yes, just like they do too. With complimentary robots."

>And please don't forget the farmers who feed all these people
"You mean individuals who harvest fruit, vegetables, and hunt meat for the collective society.

Like those tribals for instance?"

>There is no plan on making them useful.
"So if their farmers are not at all useful, what makes ours any more?

In fact more and more of our food isn't even gathered by our people anymore, it's robot produced."
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>>1817638
Corrupted/Destroyed data banks. Dr. klein or mobius didn't like it and deleted it or whatever. I.e. QM fiat
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>>1817638
You need an action to produce weapons, I don't see a weapons production action so you'll have to do it the quick and replicator way.
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>>1817643
Just ignore that guy. He wants to go full Stalinist assigned work orders to everyone.
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>>1817641
>Wed be making less profit per unit, but more units.
Which is an assertion you make without proof that the "savings" you'd apparently make on a single shot launcher are in anyway major enough to make up for the fact we need to produce more for the same effect or the fact we can't just switch to producing mostly ammo for them after a time which would be much cheaper.

>Net gain for disposables. And disposable launchers are still a gain for them. We don't want to help them too much after all.
If we don't want to help them too much then we cut off supply citing a problem with the factory or just cut it off ourselves saying we need to produce other shit or that we need them ourselves.

>Once they have tubes, they can focus on building rockets, which means when we attack, they will have rocket launchers. Vs disposables, where we stop selling, they run out, and we stomp them down.
Except with single shot launchers they can just refit them to fire again since the inefficiency isn't a concern to them because it still increases their production which if anything would occur the moment we give them a single rocket launcher.
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>>1817604
Trade them more of there own design, Fuck giving them new stuff.
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>>1817542
>it wouldn't prove our technical superiority making us a less respected warlord and trade partner.
It does prove our industrial superiority though. They've barely made a few with their researchers.

>>1817627
>Except they'd be able to think logically that if they can salvage together something like that, we who are producing them from the ground up and make combat robots out the ass should be able to make something better.
Are you saying Old World disposable AAs aren't far better than what they have?

>>1817604
>>1817627
Anyways, yeah, keep it at Junk AAs until we see what their deals are like. We have better things to do with those research actions.
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>>1817651
Well we set the price for the missles they need, so we wouldn't be selling for a loss. Its a seller's market. If niner won't take them maybe Bishop will. No skin off our backs.
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>>1817654
>It does prove our industrial superiority though. They've barely made a few with their researchers.
More accurately, Niner only has a few. We have no way of proving expansion ain't expanding.

>Are you saying Old World disposable AAs aren't far better than what they have?
Potentially. We don't have any reason to believe that they'd want disposables as I have already explained and more importantly I feel it'd be a wasted effort.

>>1817657
You seem to have this strange idea that we can just set the price and they'll take it up the ass rather than refusing to purchase them or only purchasing a few before retrofitting them to be reusable.


Also you fail to address any of my other points.
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>>1817605
>Not really since I want to scrub the brains of our enemies, so they'd be entirely empty and then have an AI inserted. Rather than you: who wants to clone humans and send them off to die within months or years of birth without any sorts of plans for what to do with them when the war is won.
Dont give me that high and mighty shit. Your idea is just as bad. And to claim innocence is frankly deluded.

>>1817605
>I know that there is no inherent benefit
Then dont fucking do it. This is not your personal fantasy of rainbow land.

>>1817627
>No, because WE are making the weapon WE pay for the parts used to make it and WE receive what they are willing to pay. Which will be less than if it was a multi-shot weapon and thus WE make less of a material profit on each weapon.
And if they dont pay they dont get them. This is how business works. We are not out to help the MLA, we are out to help ourselves, or have you forgotten that amidst your misguided moralfaggotry and inability to see other perspectives?

>>1817651
>Except with single shot launchers they can just refit them to fire again
Do you even weapons? Or is the simple possibility of a mechanism to stop this unbelievable to you? Or that the pipe will literally be a shitty pipe?
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>>1817663
>I feel
So it comes down to this. Gotcha. Nice one.
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>>1817663
They don't have rockets, we have rockets, they need rockets. We have the bargaining position. If they don't accept, no big loss on our part, and we wait a bit for things to heat up before offering again. They will accept.
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>>1817664
>Dont give me that high and mighty shit. Your idea is just as bad. And to claim innocence is frankly deluded.
I don't claim innocence. I just don't intend to bring someone into this world solely with the intent to shove them into the path of my enemies.

>Then dont fucking do it. This is not your personal fantasy of rainbow land.
And fuck you. I don't give a shit. I ain't comfortable with forcing someone to work on shit they hate and having their brain literally compel them to do it and enjoy it. I don't want to pull that shit.

>And if they dont pay they dont get them. This is how business works. We are not out to help the MLA, we are out to help ourselves, or have you forgotten that amidst your misguided moralfaggotry and inability to see other perspectives?
JESUS YOU ARE A THICK ONE AREN'T YA.

We are out to help the MLA so the NCR stops beating them. By making each weapon as good as possible we avoid wasting industrial effort and resources thus maximising relative profit.

As to your "point" about not giving them them if they don't pay, that is a complete non sequitur.

>Do you even weapons? Or is the simple possibility of a mechanism to stop this unbelievable to you? Or that the pipe will literally be a shitty pipe?
No but I am willing to believe that the MLA can fucking think you fucking fool.

>>1817669
Okay since you are going to be a pedantic motherfucker "I THINK it would be a wasted effort".
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>>1817680
>They don't have rockets, we have rockets, they need rockets. We have the bargaining position. If they don't accept, no big loss on our part, and we wait a bit for things to heat up before offering again. They will accept.
True but the potential for their position to be irreparably weakened is fairly high and quite importantly we don't want to be allow the NCR to get stronger.
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>>1817684
They know that, so they won't risk it. Its just a game of chicken, except they have more on the line. They will buy our stuff eventually.
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>>1817689
I suppose but I see no reason to act in this way. It'll harm relations and potentially damage relations with Niner (Who I want to keep on side for a little longer. We need to convince the MLA to not intervene in our conquest of the Legion and shit which he will certainly be helpful for.).
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>>1817689
Time is on our side, but if we play it wrongly then they will be far too weak to make full use of the rockets
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>>1817682
>I am willing to believe
Again you go with this shit. You get butthurt when I challenge your stupid shit and start flaming out.

>>1817682
>And fuck you. I don't give a shit.
Case and point.

>>1817682
>We are out to help the MLA so the NCR stops beating them.
YES, not set them up with best weapons because they are our precious little allies, you tool. They get what we give them and since they want this pretty bad they will take it all.

>>1817684
>True but the potential for their position to be irreparably weakened is fairly high and quite importantly we don't want to be allow the NCR to get stronger.
They have been doing ok and this is not the one chance we get to make everything right. If this doesnt work we can make more. They will fork over the resources and we make them at a profit. If they need more we make more. we get shit we want, they get shit they want. This is how its supposed to work, or have you forgotten amidst your love of the MLA, refiring rocketlaunchers and clone-hate?
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>>1817703
And we have absolutely no knowledge of how it is going. We can start small and if it is needed we can ramp up drastically in the event of imminent collapse. Not to mention help with medicine and logistics/calculations/predictions.
>>
>>1817712
I agree completely. We should see how the negotiations go before we do anything drastic. We also really need to know how the war is going
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>>1817704
Fuck it. I can't be bothered to waste my time trying to convince you.

>>1817717
I agree to that.
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>>1817717
Exactly. Should we deem it necessary we have the capability to make large amounts of these while the MLA has large amounts of men to shoot them. But right now is not the time for that. And if we find out how they are doing we can sell them other things as well. How fortunate we are going to a warboss meet.
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>>1817648
Oh shit, did I come off like this? I didn't mean it. I'm all for freedom but we are not making a society of parasites.

Frankly I am insulted that Arcade thinks so low about our people.
There is a huge difference between reaching up to pluck a fruit and toiling soil in harsh desert under a scorching sun to feed populace which would starve otherwise. Being a hunter defending against wild animals or being a soldier going through tough training, going on military expeditions or protecting their home (did he forget how our people fought valiantly against the Legion) and dying or super mutants which kept dangerous mutated wildlife away for years. Building projects to make collective life easier, secure, improve efficiency and making simple mud huts.
He also ignored the scientists part. Oh and we have doctors too.

Our people have been pulling their weight and being useful from the beginning and I'm pretty sure everyone still works hard (at least OP never said otherwise).
Our farmers farm because we need them to farm because until recently we couldn't simply afford to spend resources and time to build more farming bots. The bulk of our nation worked to feed the scientists who work hard to make endless technological breakthroughs. In a way, a simple farmer is responsible for those robots who now are making his life easier. Now that simple unskilled workers are being replaced, we will make steps that they join those same scientists and doctors they helped to keep doing their work.
Hell, our people got literate in the school and they all use Alexa to learn new stuff.
If we are starting to get freeloaders in our society it is only because we haven't gotten around implementing the post scarcity society yet where people will still be doing valuable and needed work even when robots take care of most of things.

The tribals in the nursery only gather and hunt because Diana refused to let them become completely lazy and decadent. There is no need for them to do any of that.
Diana is overprotective doting mother which brings up children totally unprepared for the real world. And when real world came knocking, they were woefully unprepared for it.
>>
>>1817730
The feeling is mutual. I give facts and an option, you disagree because it conflict with your selective moral code.
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>>1817738
I gave facts. I gave logic. I meant "gut feeling" not emotional feeling.


You are just a fucking piece of shit. Who for some reason is obsessed with god damn clones.
>>
>>1817736
Dude. These guys are pulling their weight. They are entirely self sufficient. The American dream. No need to force them to conform.

And how do you have an issue with them not being lazy and decadent? I thought we were going for a non-lazy, non-decadent people.
>>
>>1817742
And you a piece of shit so obsessed with banning clones. As to your gut feeling, its shit.

You were against the chipping as well, werent you?
>>
How about... Instead of making soldier clones we make scientist and doctor clones?
>>
>>1817747
Clones are too close to slaves. We're going into the whole thing with the Institute. Just because we make them does not mean they are people and deserve the same freedoms as such.
>>
>>1817736
Arcade is mostly poking at your double standards and in general at you beeing an obvious sneering imperialist, less out of any malicious intent, bit out of casual conversation, but more of the idea that, for example:

"projects to make collective life easier, secure, improve efficiency"

When, for all intents and purposes, the tribals life is easy, secure, and very efficient. All while using mud huts.
>>
On the topic of clones, I'm bringing up my idea again to hook up brains without a body to new cloned bodies. We just need to put some more research into the Tesla coils to see if its viable.

Those of you who want clone commandos, withought having to chip them. This could be a way to go an do it. Have the brains control the body through suicide missions / what have you, and when they die the brain still functions. Give them a new clone body and your good to go again.
>>
>>1817755
I prefer that than a clone slave army. A slave is a slave, even if they don't know better.
>>
>>1817745
Nope. I was one of the people that was for it from the first second. Hell I think I might have even been the one to suggest it but I can't remember.

>>1817755
Aye I'd have no problem with that.
>>
>>1817743
I'm not advocating to forcing them anything. But they are definitely not self sufficient or pulling their weight.

The simple fact is that if the humans were removed, the nursery would not have been better or worse because of that. Same can not be said about our little nation. At least before we got ZAX, if all of our people disappeared, things would have been much harder for us. Remember how Oddball's exodus made things difficult for us in a way that we are yet to recover.

I am annoyed that Arcade is trying to compare our people who got here with their blood and sweat to these tribals who had everything cared for them since they were children.
I don't like the way he looks down on our people. These are the people who believed in us and stuck with us from the beginning and you're damn right I won't let anyone insult them like this.
>>
>>1817766
How are they not self sufficient? They are fed and happy and fit, and we don't put anything in. No welfare or anything. Just because they aren't living the life you want from them, doesn't mean they need to change.

Or do the sorrows need to change as well? They live a tribal life, and are wholely satisfied by it.

Your issue seems to be they aren't living the life of someone from New Washington.
>>
>>1817736
It's a bit funny because Something like this is actually in Yaunker's book on Tribals

"The tribal who finds himself blessed as if in a lard of fat and a barrel of fruit, with the waters of life flowing around him. The resources of the world are at his feet, and what does he do with it?

He lives humbly, within his means but no more, scarcely more than an animal than a man. He cares not, for example, that there may be an impoverished village in the dust far off, or that his fellow men reap the bounties he has found. They not his tribe, it is not his problem.

But the civilized man does not fall prey to animal hedonism. He does not reach out to nature, like a beggar asking her of alms. He toils her ground, lays the seeds for farms. He strives to achieve things higher than himself, to feed not one man but a whole nation. To build a town, a settlement, to mine the earth for metals, to construct homes not huts. To educate himself, grow wiser in sciences and math, and to build up humanity to greatness.

The tribal works for himself, the civilized man works for all mankind."
>>
>>1817753
Yes. Because everything was done for them from the beginning. They got to live in paradise on earth where everything was in arms reach, protected and cared by robots but everything stayed the same since and stagnated. 11 fucking years and it took us finding this place to fix all the problems which plagued these facilities. Our scientists could have fixed those problems too, maybe it would have taken more people and more time but I'm sure they'd have done it in at least half a year.
Our soldiers could easily deal with mutated wildlife and plants too.

We need our people for our nation to flourish.
We take care of their basic needs so that they can pursue much higher goals not so that they laze around and fuck in mud huts
>When, for all intents and purposes, the tribals life is easy, secure, and very efficient. All while using mud

Yeah, until Legion, MLA, NCR, aliens, evil horrors summoned by apocalypse show up.

>sneering imperialist
Damn right I am. All nations and people should strive for greater things.
>>
>>1817802
Man anon, and you're working with the MLA of all people Its never too late to reconsider alliances
>>
>>1817775
And he is right in that.

>>1817755
If we can do it in a way that keeps our connection from being severed easily I agree. This way we dont lose the mind behind the soldier.

>>1817747
We make those too. The point is that soldiers is one of the many possibilities of this tech. Tech that we should capitalize on.

>>1817802
YES, someone who doesnt compromize. We have a nation to run after all.

>>1817814
And just as the locals who sold their brothers into slavery were used, we will use the MLA until it suits us no more.
>>
>>1817802
You really need to relax. Some people don't see ac and television and concrete blocks as necessary for a good life. They hunt and the sleep and they enjoy spending time with each other. More than can be said for us. We're always zipping around doing things in far off lands, while our family stays behind.

And Diana protected them, and would have for generations if we hadn't yknow, enslaved her.
>>
>>1817775
I always said that we are closest to NCR in ideals than any other faction.

>>1817772
I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not saying that we are spending anything on them.
>>
>>1817814
I prefer to look at it as using the MLA as a meat shield / proxy army to working with them, since that implies they are equals and that we don't intend to stab them in the back and steal their lands.
>>
>>1817822
How are they parasites then? Taking is by defenition, parasitism.
>>
What's the current argument about and why aren't we building a Large solar farm?
>>
>>1817820
Everyone who runs nations, good nations, compromises. Moral standing and not being hypocrites has a large place in governance.
>>
>>1817832
Two arguments: if we should use clones and clone soldiers and second, if we should make single-use rocket launchers or multi-use rocket launchers for trade to the MLA.
>>
>>1817840
Well of course we should use Clone soldiers, what are anons ideas?
>>
>>1817832
Also what to do with the tribals in the nursery. H85O is disgusted by their life style and wants to force then into stalinist work camps because how dare they exist, all happy and well fed. He has major crab in bucket syndrom
>>
>>1817846
He sounds like an ass.
>>
>>1817845
Its effecrively a slave army, and they are redundant in the face of our robot soldiers. No clone soldier can match a securitron.
>>
>>1817851
Yeah, and >>1817820
is encouraging him with his usual " history should judge us" and "no morals ever, no compromising any gain for being nice, or considerate, or not a slave master"
>>
>>1817865
Actually that would be me, that is my ideology. Even I am against clone-slave gene-warriors.
>>
>>1817821
Sure good her protection did. All she had were old outdated robots which a regular Legion soldier can take on easily. It was just a matter of time before a major faction would have found them.

>>1817827
Well, this paradise didn't happen on its own for starters. They are taking other people's hard work even if that person is OK with that and in fact made this place like this specifically for them.

They are happy, they are fed, they are protected just like a 35 year old man child is happy, fed and protected by his parents.
He lives in a house (green paradise) they provided, eats food from the plate (taking fruits from trees) they bring. While the analogy is not 100 percent correct, it is close

The world of fallout is a harsh place. Diana should have been educating and training them since they were 13-15 years old. She should have been using her scientific knowledge to develop advanced learning methods so that they are ready faster. She should have been searching for ways to deal with her immediate problems like fixing robot facilities even if that meant training these people to be scientists and engineers.
Instead she let them frolic around in blissful uselessness.
>>
>>1817852
>>1817874
Why do the Clones need to be slaves?
>>
>>1817874
Are you plan anon? Could have sworn that was >>1817820
>>
>>1817880
Because he's thinking of clone wars still, indoctrinated children accelerated to adulthood and deprived of their free will. Slaves.
>>
>>1817880
Because he wants to force them into combat and make them all soldiers.

>>1817881
Aye, that'd be me I believe.


Trust me, even I don't believe in abusing cloning or the mind. I was on the fence for the whole "chipping" Diana thing and I am against making clone soldiers with her help as well for that reason because of what it would do to her / her mind.
>>
>>1817875
Joshua lets the Sorrows frolick around in a blissful uselessness. Other than the few warriors they have, but they probably just kill beasts now that Zion is safe.

Are you saying Joshua is wrong to respect the purity of their home and way of life?
>>
>>1817888
Why the hell do they need to be deprived of free will if their indoctrinated?
Like literally just do everything except the last part and you have perfectly good loyal elites.
>>1817890
>Because he wants to force them into combat and make them all soldiers.
Is there a problem with that that i'm not aware of?
>>
>>1817846
>>1817851

Lmao, he is making a strawman. I never said to force them to do anything and certainly not putting them into work camps.

I just said that they are bunch of freeloaders and maybe we should find ways to make them useful for our nation.
Then Arcade started comparing them to our people and saying that they are no different compared to these tribals and I got mad at Arcade for looking down on our citizens and insulting them. Our people are no where near compared to these fuckbois and fuckgirls.
>>
>>1817893
Aren't all the Sorrows trained as warriors?
>>
>>1817900
>Then Arcade started comparing them to our people and saying that they are no different compared to these tribals and I got mad at Arcade for looking down on our citizens and insulting them. Our people are no where near compared to these fuckbois and fuckgirls.
Nigga you dumb, you super dumb.
>>
>>1817890
Are you italian? And have you ever said anything like " give me a bag of dynamite and I can cripple the NCR" Back when ?
Because I thought I could ID him by now.
>>
>>1817906
Uhh, i think there's only one Italian here and that would be me.
>>
>>1817902
No. Dead horses were warriors. Sorrows were the innocent children of Zion who know know justice, tempered by mercy.
>>
>>1817912
Huh. My bad. Didn't expect anything to be too far for you.
>>
>>1817913
Yea but that was back in the game, lots of time has passed since then so shouldn't they all be warriors by now?
>>
>>1817916
What? I always comment when something is too far for me, hell i did it last time during the YES/NO vote.
>>
>>1817917
Why would they be? There is no war to fight. Zion is safe

>>1817919
Then you are not the person I call plan anon. I always get into fights with him as "moralfag".
>>
>>1817893
Let me remember. Didn't it take us, the courier to come and save their asses from the rival tribe which wanted to join Legion?

Who will come to save us when NCR comes knocking? Or when the Legion? Or any other major threat?

Exactly. Fucking nobody.
We will defend ourself. Our people defend themselves. The robot army that they made possible defend us.
BECAUSE WE DIDN'T LAY AROUND AND SUCK ON NATURE'S TIT

So yeah, I think Joshua and his tribals are wrong. In fact we offered our protection to them which further proves my point.
>>
>>1817925
>Why would they be? There is no war to fight. Zion is safe
No it's not, we told Joshua Zion wasn't safe and i don't think he's one who would forgo preparing for the worst.
>>
>>1817905
What the hell are you talking about?
Read QM posts. Arcade is literally saying our citizens are no different from these tribals.
>>
>>1817926
>Joshua is wrong.
You better shut your mouth cause you are saying some aggravating shit.
>>
>>1817934
Yea, he's pointing out your hypocrisy.
Like seriously, QM goes to write something just to point out your double standards and it goes flying over your head. >>1817753
>>
Have we voted for this turns actions yet or can i still submit my own?
>>
>>1817935
No amount of fan boy dicksucking will change the fact that Joshua and his tribe are fucked when NCR, Legion, MLA, BoS comes. Or us for that matter if we decide to be hostile.

The fact that he will need an outside force to protect their "purity of life" proves that is completely and utterly wrong.
>>
>>1817964
I feel that the your main purpose in this quest is to just antagonize other players.
>>
>>1817964
And of course it is up to you, with your noble civilized ways to save them from their savage ways. The fact they were in danger had nothing to do with the fact they were vastly out numbered, and outgunned. It is completely because they did not accept CIVILIZATION into their hearts.

The mormons were almost wiped out too. DId they lay about sucking nature's tit? or is that just what you call anyone smaller than you.

If they are weaker, it is because they are lazy and degenerate, if they are stronger they cheated, Eh?
>>
>>1817964
We don't even have an idea of how Joshua is defending Zion, he could be setting up traps for a guerrilla war for all we know.
Seriously you're just calling their way of life wrong because you think they haven't done shit ever since we left, which is completely wrong.
>>
>>1817974
Speaking of guerrilla warfare, now that we have working diggers we should begin building a camouflaged tunnel system to allow our troops to rapidly move across our territory so they can preform hit and run against anyone who invades.
http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Tunnel_network
>>
Okay I'm back.

We still have consensus right?

>>1817974
You can always ask him but from last you saw, like he did when you were there, he applied the knowledge and tactics he gained both as a follower and as a legate. Teaching them firearms maintenance, guerrilla warfare tactics, skirmishing and scouting, and such
>>
>>1817997
Yeah, that's what the MLA is doing. Including the Divide, so our tunnels would intersect.
>>
>>1817312
>>1818001
Here's mine real quick.

>civ
Get hexacrete
>construct
Build a Large solar farm.

>hero
- Go to the MLA i guess.
- spend time talking/courting Diana
-spend time with our family and kids.
-go visit the Chinese and see how they are doing. Visit in-laws and Sam.

>research
Neurology research for the post scarcity guys

>zax research
Driller apc's- incorporate echoboys for navigation and control.

>bio research
Better farm plants

Passive contrsuct
Eyebot repair bots.
>>
>>1818006
>so our tunnels would intersect.
Well, tunneling will still be straight as long as the drills don't touch
>>
>>1817973
Our "Civilization" started with one guy with a dream and 7 people willing to believe that dream. In like 5 or 6 years we have become a power that local superpowers will think twice about being hostile with.
We used the power of advanced civilization to get to this point.

So yeah, factions which had more time, people and favorable environment are shit because they are fucking lazy and did not utilize resources at hand.
NCR started with a small village. Legion was just couple of tribal villages united. BoS was a stranded brotherhood chapter devasted by a storm. I don't fucking know what MLA's deal is.
They worked with what they had and became powerful in their own way instead of sitting around, letting neighbors become stronger and guts them.
>>
>>1818006
Which is why we should start claiming subterranean territory as soon as possible before they expand even more.
>>
>>1818001
For fucks sake, please OP, just make a separate vote on the minor thing that people didn't completely agree with.

It's ridiculous to expect 20 something people to completely agree on a list with like 10 actions in it.
>>
>>1818028
Which minor thing is that, I'm just trying to make sure that we have an action plan with three votes in it.

If you mean the rockets, the consensus seems to be just replicating their own designs.
>>
>>1818011
The only disagreement is building rocket launchers, THe civ, construct, research, zax and bio research and passive construct actions are agreed upon.
>>
>>1817607
>>1817627
>>1817628
>>1817652
4 for the replicating their designs.

>>1817457
Writing!
>>
>>1818030
Three votes with pretty much the saame things, just contention on building rocket launchers, which is solved
>>1817544
>>1817319
>>1817326
>>
Hey QM, does the Nursery have enough power to generate some metal?
>>
>>1818039
Yes actually.

But you would need to build a disintegrator replicator there.
>>
>>1818039
That would be from the Universal replicator, which isn't finished.
>>
Updated pastebin of things to do
https://pastebin.com/GMfdS7Z3
>>
QM, does that pact we entered in with the dark priestess the last time we visited the MLA apply in perpetuity?
>>
>>1818083
No we have to refresh it. Better this way.
>>
>>1818083
>>1818098
I am pretty certain it still applies.
>>
>>1818102
I think we looked at the wording and it only applied until we got home, which we did. So we're good.
>>
>>1818102
>-this contract grants you safe passage for the duration it is due, until the end of your journey here, and once you have left the MLA

So it's a one trip ticket.
>>
>>1818123
So we need to make it again for this meeting - easy.

QM can we do this in one post and just use the same process as last time? Otherwise it will drag out again.
>>
>1818151
Yeah, just ask for the same deal as last time.
>>
>>1818035
>>1817654
>>1818036
Yep.

>>1818151
Yeah.

>>1817663
>More accurately, Niner only has a few. We have no way of proving expansion ain't expanding.
I doubt it, they were making Junk AA cannons last we checked. Their researchers couldn't reproduce it after seemingly months of effort, only salvage it. If they weren't getting those, they were likely going to keep making GLA-like Junk AA quadcannons.

>>1817627
>Yeah we can do junk stuff for now and tell them better things are in the works and see if they want multi-shot or single shot.
I know what you mean, but you mean single or multi-use, right? Not as in they can fire multiple AAs at the same time unless you plan on making a Beggar's Bazooka from Team Fortress 2?

>>1817654
>>1817627
>>1817664
>>1817704
Also we already agreed on seeing what they'll pay more out the ass for, how, and how much it'll tip the balance so it's a bit moot.
We weren't going to spend the research action to make quality AA because we already had other things in mind, at least for this run. Best to see if the MLA could sway our mind for this deal.

Also wow, I'm surprised at how we kept making more shitstorms while I was gone.
>>
>>1817894
>Is there a problem with that that i'm not aware of?
Besides it being slavery and child soldiers effectively? None that I can think of.

>>1817906
The second comment is a simplification of my statements about the potential for the Courier to do serious damage to NCR industry but that was a long time ago and a statement made without much of the information we have now.

Fact is that back then it might have made the difference between victory and defeat at the NCR capital but they are industrialised now and too massively to effect so easily.

>>1818012
To be fair we got around most of the difficulties by a mix of luck and salvaging pre-existing infrastructure / group's for support. Industry from the Chinese, science from big mt and the followers, people from NV and so on.

Without any of that we'd have been far worse off, so really it comes down to us having the Courier around to take advantage of all the shit he's seen in his life and shit.


Must sleep, replies in 16 odd hours.
>>
>>1818223
>I doubt it, they were making Junk AA cannons last we checked. Their researchers couldn't reproduce it after seemingly months of effort, only salvage it. If they weren't getting those, they were likely going to keep making GLA-like Junk AA quadcannons.
Actually this shit we're making currently is their design made from a pipboy (they found a working / repairable factory) and a conventional rocket. They can produce them and will almost certainly get better at making them and more of them given time.

>I know what you mean, but you mean single or multi-use, right?
Yeah.

>Not as in they can fire multiple AAs at the same time unless you plan on making a Beggar's Bazooka from Team Fortress 2?
That'd be nice too but save it for vehicles since it'd be heavy as hell.
>>
>>1818239
>Actually this shit we're making currently is their design made from a pipboy (they found a working / repairable factory) and a conventional rocket. They can produce them and will almost certainly get better at making them and more of them given time.
I'm talking about the Old War AAs, not the Junk AAs. There's a good chance they'll eventually improve them, but I'd imagine that'd be a few years down the road. That was what they could reverse-engineer and get the industry for.

>(they found a working / repairable factory)
Wasn't that a cache of old Pipboys? I don't remember it being mentioned it could be used to produce more. Plus it was the equivalent of GPS units.

>That'd be nice too but save it for vehicles since it'd be heavy as hell.
Yep.

>>1818225
>Must sleep, replies in 16 odd hours.
See you then. Don't you worry your pretty little head anon, I'm sure we'll do something that you'll completely end up hating afterwards.
>>
At least some people like my fan fic attempt at writing. I give it a 6/10
>>
Okay passed out and now fully rested who'se here?
>>
>>1818777
yo
>>
>>1818777
Here.
>>
>>1818777
Yo
>>
>>1818777
kind of here
>>
>>1818777
Here
>>
>>1818777
hello.
>>
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>>1817457
>>construct
>Build cranes
The Old Crane is a sorry sight. Not used since the Great War, it survived your search for scrap metal as well.

Thankfully you are now prepared to restore it to glory.

Repair bots scan the vehicle up and down day and night, detailing every last nut and bolt and what needs to be repaired and fix. They take the thing apart, first the cable, then the crane, then the frame.

It all had to be rebuilt, refurbished, redone, and like a giant clock maker's table every part was cleaned or bad parts churned out from your factories.

Until at last the greatest vehicle in your arsenal now looks shiny and clean, humming with a huge glowing electrical alien battery hooked up to local power, built with the strength and power of a Chinese tank engine, and ready to aid in the construction of ever larger projects or dig in the mines!

+1 Giant Crane
>>
>>1818844
Go on...
>>
>>1817457
>civ
Get hexacrete

The new Universal Loaders work excellently at the task of mining, being stronger and more durable than the Construction Protectron model.

Digging out more minerals from the Twin Mines, and loading them into rail cars with the aid of construction vehicles.

Food is spent of course, as these are the old model that still run on Diesel, but with the new electric train, vast amounts of Hex Crete are gathered.

>ZAX(CEO)
"I would want to electrify all our vehicles, we should stop being reliant on biofuels as a primary source and keep them as an emergency measure.

We can't currently sustain such electrical usage, but it is something I wish to pursue eventually."
>>
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>>1817457
>>research
>Neurology research for the post scarcity guys
Brain Extraction technology was a fundamental science in the US Government. Everything from Robo-Brains, to Cybernetic Dogs.

Brains are superior to computers in the level of programming complexity they can take. They provide a superior means to Artificial Intelligence (which while possible without brains is exceedingly difficult and usually involves scanning and mimicing brain function anyway).

But while Brain Extraction is one thing, only here at BigMT was Brain Extraction ever possible, while keeping the human subject alive. And you were the very first one, all because of those two little bullets benny gave you.

Thankfully, here at BigMT, the specialty of the day is Brains. Particularly Dr. Mobius, whose specialty was Brains, and who had a hand in the transition of the Think Tank into what they are today. Not to mention, you have gifted minds such as Doctor Henry and Dr. Bradey's Brain, themselves also familar with the Enclave's own efforts to remove and experiment with cybernetic brains.

>con't
>>
Question, Can we clone new brains from that one place and use them as literal program beds for our robots?
>>
>>1818933
No, clone brains don't work cause they aren't born naturally.
Funny enough that might be evidence that people have souls.
>>
>>1818938
Maybe with our previous cloning understanding, but we have a neew cloning facility that makes living breathing farm animals. Can't be too out there to make good quality brain. Or chimpanzee's if we need to substitute.
>>
>>1818924
Further proof of the effectiveness of Brains as superior computer intellects is Rufus, a Human mind turned into a Cyberdog as a cruel practical joke by the Think Tank shortly after they were turned into brains themselves.

He's one of your actual robotics scientists, and very good at what he does.

According to Dr. Henry and Bradley's Brain, the enclave found out that the fastest and most conclusive way to study brains would be to take them apart. Literally. The enclave derived much neurological knowledge from their "Prisoners of War" by hooking up brains (typically while the person is still conscious and still brained) to computers and vivisecting them to thoroughly map each and every individual detail. This was far superior to simply theorizing what each element of the brain actually does.

Dr. Mobius research supports this, stating how Dr. Klein and Borous evidence pointed to the same, though he did his best to keep them strictly to Cyberdogs, but inevitably the lobotomite program still went through.

The issue with that is you'd need actual humans and the expectation that they are probably going to end up as more lobotomites. Considering the complexity of the Brain, you're looking at anywhere upwards of at least 40 subjects, of different genders and ages to help account for discrepancies, but probably more. They stress, again, that this will likely result in lobotomites.

Some of your more moral followers voice their objections. While this is the most straightforward path and could yield results within months, they think it worthwhile to pursue alternative and less scrupulous paths even if it takes longer, even if it takes years. Particularly Arcade, but you feel you /can/ convince them.

This is not a very well tested science and the records of the Enclave are blown up.

But it will open the gateway to a number of new neurological discoveries:
-An alternative method of Tesla Coil function may be discovered, which will not be blocked out by Radar Fences or other interference
-Disconnections in memory and amnesia could be potentially cured, such as Dr. Bradley's Brain and his super mutant companion
-More effective Brain implantations and entirely new chips could be devised

In addition, you yourself remember that you have the five reavers frozen who themselves have Brotherhood Brain implants and could be worth investigating.

AHS-9 believes that implants could improve his psychic abilities, but only if you experiment with other brains with the ability.Luckily this won't require lobotomization (maybe) but you'd have to find other people like him

Last but not least, Unity says that the Master also experimented with FEV injection in Brains.

CHOOSE:
>We need results now. The NCR are not waiting, not certainly for the most moral of choices. If for the greater good and to save more lives, we have to crack a few eggs, it is one of the hard choices we must make
>No, you guys are right. Even if it takes years, we do this clean
>>
>>1818989
>No, you guys are right. Even if it takes years, we do this clean
>>
>>1818989
Why not both? We'll do it clean most of the time but if we ever get someone who needs to die we just dissect his brain and gain something useful from his death.
The Legion will have good candidates for this.
>>
>>1818989
>>No, you guys are right. Even if it takes years, we do this clean
>>
>>1818989
Also, we have an immortal dog scientist? Tha't something else.
>>
>>1818989
We need the results now. We mind raped an innocent brain for progress. No stopping now
>>
>>1819047
>No stopping now
Nah, we can stop now.
>>
>>1818989
>No you guys are right. Years option
>>
>>1819038
Yup.

You always wondered if it was ever possible to put him back into a lobotomite body, but for now, he continues life as a dog.

He's actually one of the few people you have who speaks dog, as opposed to understanding it like you do.

You get the feeling he is quiet lonely, especially around Rex and Roxie, but when asked if he wanted a female companion he asked how would you feel if someone told you to fuck a dog.
>>
>>1819057
QM can we do both like i described here? >>1819011
>>
I have a feeling if we allow our scientists to believe in moral constraints now, it will be difficult to convince them later on if we absolutely need it. We should get them to think in terms of the greater good of America

>>1818989
I vote Yes to results
>>
>>1819060
Not really, they're sort of asking for precedence. If you say its okay to allow it but only for viscous psychopaths, well, the world is already full of viscous psychopaths and it wouldn't be hard to find them.
>>
>>1819068
Oh.
Give me a minute to think about it then.
>>
>>1819063
Moral constraints are imperative to science they keep. Science only found due to inhuman action is science not worth doing. We need limits. There must always be a line in the sand that we do not dare cross.
>>
Gotta love the fact last thread everybody was all over the whole 'lets just mind-fuck this bitch and make her our servant' and now its an issue.
>>
Just ate, im back now, writng up the rest of the update
>>
>>1819082
>Brain
"Do not dare cross or keep to strict limits? After all, you essentially captured 5 human brains to wipe, modify, and replace with the ZAX's programming. Logically speaking that isn't very different from what is being proposed here."
>>
>>1819130
Necessity vs expedience. We don't have to, so we should not. This is not secrets that can be kept. This would be the path that our entire country takes. A shining jewel of science and culture, or the old Big Empty with more man power.

We can not be too busy asking if we can to miss asking if we should.
>>
>>1819130
Why bother with limits, Just make sure we're not found out to the general public.
>>
>>1819139
This is science. It is what the public does. Who would we be keeping this a secret from, the 2 dozen farmers?
>>
>>1819139
Doing secret hero research actions is a possibility You did so with diana.

You're such a Genius most people won't question any miracle breakthroughs you do
>>
Rolled 1 (1d2)

>>1818010
>zax research
>Driller apc's- incorporate echoboys for navigation and control.

Rolling for reasons
>>
>>1819159
>A coin flip.
Oh no this is new.
>>
>>1819159
>ZAX(MAJOR)
"GODDAMMIT!"

>ZAX(CEO)
"The outcome was never in doubt."

Looks like the CEO one. The Echo-boy integration was a success.

The first prototype of his "Subterrine" concept bears fruit. A single squad of MKV Securitron loads up into the Drill Vehicle, programmed to enter the ground at point A and surface somewhere in Point B.

The massive drill vehicle begins to dig into the earth, sinking deeper and deeper into the soft sand, before being submerged entirely. Five minutes passes of pure silence, and then, an explosion of dirt and rocks as the giant drill smashes up through the ground and resurfaces, and out pours a squad of Securitrons guns blazing on fake targets.

>ZAX(CEO)
"The prototype is a success! All it needs now is to be weaponized."

+1 Prototype Subterrine
>>
>>1819167
This should be fine in getting under the the emp missles and into the command center to disable the defenses.
>>
>>1819167
We rogue trooper now?
>>
>>1819174
We NOD now
>>
>>1819176
Now all we need are Tiberium sun flame tanks.
>>
>>1819177
Devil's tongues. That's next on the list.

Use echo boys to find the largest pocket cluster, drill down and fill the tunnels with smoke and fire.
>>
>>1819184
We also need to stark making a tunnel network, turn our territory into something no army can cross.
>>
>bio research
>Better farm plants
You explain your situation to Diana.

Rather than farming a variety of plant material, you plant the most effective mass growing plant varieties which do not consume so much water. Then through the use of a BCR facility you convert this into Salient Green which has a vast variety of uses, including being cooked back into other fruit.

(Though truth be told, you tried a Salient Green "orange" vs the real thing and the the real one did taste better. . .)

After analyzing your farming data, she starts synthesizing up some equipment and tells you to apply them to your farms.

So you do. Following her instructions, you gather large barrels of muddy soil from the end of the valley river, producing modified versions of the Light Switch 02 bulbs for night time growth, and start spraying, injecting, and seeding stuff onto the farms. Mostly genome injectors and nutrient catalsysts.

---

The results are immediate, within the first few weeks the Cacti are growing twice as fast and two times as large, all without seriously decreasing your water supply!

>Food Supply has doubled
>Water Supply has slightly increased

Interestingly, the cacti have also flowered and they are quite pretty. This, coupled with the application of the light switches, has James Bond reporting that:
"Teenage couples and some adults tend to frequent the farms at night to attempt courtship or escapades."

>Hero Action
Diana actually seems to like that she's improved the farms and food situation somewhere. For the first time since you chipped her, she seems genuinely smiling.

This seems like good at time as any to praise her, and enhance her behavioral modification.

>If you wish to write-in some dialogue/action say so
>>
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>>1819190

>>1819189
The Current design needs further improvement before stable tunnel networks can reasonably be built.
>>
>>1819190
Look at this, that we are doing together. We are making the world a better place, have no doubt. You won't be forced to do anything you object too.
>>
>>1819192
>The Current design needs further improvement before stable tunnel networks can reasonably be built.
Why not have them slowly tunnel while followed by worker robots that stabilize the tunnel as it's excavated?
>>
>>1819196
>CEO
"I'm going to need a specialized design for that with some enhanced recoil absorption and vibration stabilizers. The current design immediately collapses the pocket of dirt behind itself."
>>
>>1819199
Can the tunnelers stay buried for prolongued periods, before popping up when they detect disturbances on the surface?
>>
>>1819204
>CEO
"Further research is needed but yes. In my next design, I plan on implementing a periscope system to allow observation of surface ground as well."
>>
>>1819199
Ah, alright
Actually that immediate tunnel collapse might be valuable somehow.
Let's call the version that doesn't collapse tunnels a Tunneler, the one that does will be called a Subterranean APC.
>>
>>1819206
Sure. Sounds good.
>>1819205
Have you ever played with the possibility of installing a flamethrower instead of a troop compartment?
>>
>>1819190
>Thank you. That is honestly amazing to see such growth happening.
>>
>>1819211
>Have you ever played with the possibility of installing a flamethrower instead of a troop compartment?
"Mhm, yes. I prefer modular capability.

I'm considering designs for a rocket and artillery platform, an underground drill-torpedo launcher, and an armored tank variant as well."
>>
>>1819223
Oh great. So we can pop up a fire base wherever, whenever. That would be handy.
>>
The communication issue still hasn't been fixed right? Let's research Subterranean messengers next turn.
They're basically a small quadruped/insect bot with a disintegrator drill and designed to be as fast as possible, they will detach from the main craft with a message and immediately head for the nearest command location to deliver it.
They can also self destruct in case the enemy captured them.
>>
>>1817894
>Why the hell do they need to be deprived of free will if their indoctrinated?
>Like literally just do everything except the last part and you have perfectly good loyal elites.
This anon gets it. And you >>1818225 dont you start again with your bullshit browbeating.

What I referred to was Republic Commando. Elite soldiers who understand that what they do is necessary for the nation and the safety of their brothers in arms. I do not want some propaganda spewing murderers. And I am seeing a disturbing trend of moralfaggotry where none should be. We have previously brutally murdered, literally killed people for their brains and lied, cheated, stolen. And yet now, when we again, need to do things for the good of the nation, you cry foul and call it inhumane. Stop this trying to be nice for the sake of being nice. It makes no sense and instead of focusing on bigger issues like the MLA/Legion slaving in the hundreds of thousands, sacrifices, genocide, you focus whether we use the brains of bad people or wether we should throw them away with the rest of the body. Grow up.

>>1818989
>We need results now. The NCR are not waiting, not certainly for the most moral of choices. If for the greater good and to save more lives, we have to crack a few eggs, it is one of the hard choices we must make
>>
>>1819223
>I'm considering designs for a rocket and artillery platform
Oh man that would be useful for my idea, they would be basically the Tiberium wars NOD turrets.
http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/SAM_turret_(Tiberium_Wars)
>>
>>1818989
I'll vote to tiebreak.
>No, you guys are right. Even if it takes years, we do this clean
>>
>>1819231
There is no reason not to have moral faggotry. We can do wrong and seek to make them right karmically. You act like the people crying inhumane are not the people crying inhumane for every other despicable thing we do. We can be moral and defeat the legion and MLA.
>>
>>1819240
There is being moral and then there is sacrificing the good of the realm for your honor. QM wrote it well: it is one of the hard choices we must make. That does not mean it is easy but it is something we have to do if we want us to be able to defend ourselves. There are eldritch monsters, hostile aliens and multiple empires out there who want us dead. This is a fight for survival, make no mistake.

And besides, I am not saying kill our own citizens. We have plenty of enemies to choose from.
>>
>>1819218
>Diana
"You're welcome Courier." she smiles back and blushes, and then immediately recognizes it and backtracks "I mean- surely a Goddess of Life would be more than able to spread the her blessings at will!"

>>1819195
>Diana
"How can I be sure? You're someone who will do anything to get what you want. How can I know?"
>>
>>1819249
And we're surviving and growing well enough without human experimentation. It's taking the easy way, and nothing worth doing is easy.

>>1819253
You will just have to see for your self, and trust.
>>
>>1819257
Thats the worse thing to say to somebody your literally forcing to work for you.

>>1819253
I can't wait to see the entire world once more be as life like as this.
>>
>>1819259
yeah. I guess.
>>1819257
Disregard the comment to Diana.
>>
>>1819190
Do praise Diana for her effort. She is making life easier.
Bring her one of the cacti flower.
>>
>>1819257
Again with this no-argument "its better this way because it it hard" crap. The whole of BigMT is built on human experimentation. Now we have the chance to make a better system for half the inhabitants (who are debrained) and convince the other half to join in the revolution and you want to stall this on the grounds of "this seems wrong". I am not advocating for genocide here I am saying that we can use our enemies to our advantage and frankly, this is a price worth paying many times over.

I am asking you to put your moral high ground to the side for the betterment of the people.
>>
>>1819266
Quick question, who would you use for Brain dissection?
>>
>>1819267
>Brain
Logically speaking, it would behoove you to pick people like cannibals, rapists, murderers, and sadists.

Probably not MLA (though a possibility) but there's bound to be some raider gangs anywhere the big nations don't have much sway.

Legion are also candidates that few people of the public would complain about, or complain less.
>>
>>1819267
refer to >>1819270

Again, we dont cut our own people and are selective about it. There is plenty of bad stock in need of culling anyway.
>>
>>1819270
>>1819272
Alright, i change my tiebreaker here >>1819236
>We need results now. The NCR are not waiting, not certainly for the most moral of choices. If for the greater good and to save more lives, we have to crack a few eggs, it is one of the hard choices we must make
>>
You tactically ignore Diana's question. You read it on her face that seems to get the impression if her objection to having her brain and mind being forced was ignored, really she shouldn't be surprised by anything else you make her do. Saying nothing tells her what she needs to know.

>>1819259
Instead, you tell her how great it will be when the entire world is green again, and place a flower pot of the cacti flowers from the Mojave.

It's a nice gift actually, and she appreciates it. She doesn't have any of the Mojave's plant or flower samples, so she scans and adds it to her genome repository and this makes her happy. She keeps your flower pot by her brain.

>You feel as though she is progressing nicely
>>
>The nursery only has Protectrons and Sentry bots.
We should give the Nursery some more robots like Securitrons and Loader bots.
>>
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>-spend time with our family and kids.
You return home to your children again, who are always happy to see Daddy come home. They rush up to you and hug you every time, always asking about where you've been or if you're going to "stay". It still hurts every time you have to say you can't. They also want to know if big sister Sam is coming back, but Dandan but she's still with Dandan in training.

Everyone of them wants a hug, for you to lift them up again (which you're very happy to do and can lift them all up in your arms), or to play with what time they have when you're here.

You remember their names now:
-Christine, Veronica's Daughter - Bright and sharp tongued just like her mother, wants to be a scientist
-Richard, Wendy Gilbert's son. Wants to grow up and be a soldier like mum and join the freeside rats as soon as he's old enough. gets into fights though.
-Samuel, Sonia's son. Big and strong, but a bit quiet and shy. Friendly though, likes to tinker by himself, but defends his siblings
-Royce, Vanessa's son. Wants to be an adventurer and explorer and is always getting into trouble sneaking where he shouldn't and stealing things
-Xìnshǐ. She's with Dandan and Sam at the Chinese ship right now

Whenever their mothers are busy or away, Alexis and the other AI's watch over them. Comparitively to other chldren of the age, they're smart, but you think you shou;d need to actually get the school system revamped and capitalize on new educational technology.
>>
>>1819284
We should probably scrap those bots too. Completely useless compared to our robots.
>>
>>1819311
>Would you like to spend time with any of them (group or individual)? Take them out on something fun/teach them something?
>>
I just remembered, we should definetly have the ZAX research the Valence radii-accentuator.
It's a holograhm that can heal the wearer, we might be able to turn it into something like this.
http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Voice_of_Kane
Just a big hologram that can heal/buff nearby troops.
>>
>>1819327
Is the anon with the pastebin still here? Can he add this to it?
>>
>tfw its one of those nights where I'm awake but reasonable anons are sleeping
>>
>>1819311
>>1819325
Honestly, Lets take them on a proper outing as a group, Full family bonding time.
>>
>>1819330
You wound me QM.... ;(

>>1819325
Take them all around the city and introduce science/military options and try to inspire greatness (for the state).
>>
>>1819311
Wow, that's an adventuring party right there.
Maybe we should construct an educational playground/dungeon/small town manned by robots so that they can learn all variety of skills in safe environment.
>>
>>1819337
Yeah. The best thing for kids to grow up strong is Hunger Games :)

But this actually brigs up a valid point: how much would a sports/combat games system benefit the population? I think 1 construction action would be enough to get an arena up but would it be worth it in terms of +patriotism +morale and +citizens going into the military?
>>1819330 QM, what do our adjutants think?
>>
>>1819325
>>1819335
Yeah, let's show them around. Show them our military hq and training grounds, science labs, robotic and war factories, etc.
Teach them things we know, theory first. Maybe tell them interesting stories which happen with us on our adventures.
>>
Back for a bit, seemed to have gone pretty well.

>>1819253
>"How can I be sure? You're someone who will do anything to get what you want. How can I know?"
>>1819280
So nobody had an answer to that? A shame.
>>
>>1819337
>>1819339
Almost everyone thinks it would be a wonderful idea, for two separate reasons.

A civilian sports gymnasium would be a great way to encourage cultural sports. The NCR has them, and so could we. There could be swimming contests, running contests, boxing and martial arts, and it would be quite the architectural improvement.

On the other-side, Joeclyn has been pestering you for a big battle playground with robots and holograms to shoot at with live ammo. Currently only the military gets to use the training ground (and that in itself is in need of some major upgrades).

You recal the X-8 training facility, which helped improve skills in hacking, sneaking past defenses, lockpicking, and avoiding or disarming mines, and target practice all of which could easily be replicated. Hell the entire X-8 facility itself could be remade purpose built for that.
>>
>>1819342
Seems clear that the player/Courier intends to keep their options open. Rather than lie and make her do something she'd object anyway in the future.
>>
>>1819335
1 for this, anyone else? Otherwise moving on
>>
>>1819343
Can we do all of these and make a big entertainment/sports/educational complex?
No to live ammo though, we will develop special weapons which will feel and handle like real ones but won't be lethal and special armor/harness which detects shots (something like laser tag)

OP could you make a task list if we need several things to achieve this. I feel we are more motivated to finish things when they are in a list form.

>>1819342
Didn't realize we needed to give an answer to that.
>>
>>1819346
I support that. It is late for me, QM.
>>
>>1819346
>>1819349
>>1819341
That's 4 now, including me.

>>1819343
Neato.
>>1819348
Would be quite an attraction if we made it.

>Didn't realize we needed to give an answer to that.
It happens. It did sound rather important, but we sidestepped it from the looks of it.
>>
>>1819343
No civilian gets into BigMT only for this. If we build things for the public they will be outside the dome. However, I approve of making a sports center for the people in the city. Have as many different spaces as possible (in a turn or two) and incorporate a shooting range. If the people want more combat they can sign up with the military for now. Also, how feasible would gladiatorial games be? Not in the sense that they go and cut each other to bits but a combat encounter where people test their mettle against each other within a changing environment, obstacle courses and so on.

>>1819345
Keep her as happy as can be but start pushing for our needs. For example, have her research genemods next. Go for stats increase mods.
>>
>>1819346
I'm also for it >>1819341
>>
>>1819348
When you pursue them with an action I will automatically generate a list
>>
>>1819341
Writing.

Any specific stories/lessons you wanna teach? This is a good time for player input
>>
>>1819359
That father loves them and wishes he could be at home instead of doing all the crazy shit he does that's super deadly
>>
>>1819359
Progress through superior technology is paramount. Dont fight hard, fight smart.
The family, and through proxy the state, comes first. When we all are dead Family, lives on.
Dont be afraid to improve yourself or your peers, point out bad and offer solutions, not blame.
>>
>>1819359
Our more waky adventures would be good.
>>
>>1819359
Don't count your eggs before they hatch
>>
>>1819359
Go with all four and lets move on.
>>
>>1819359
Perhaps tell them our adventure in Sierra madre?
>>
>>1819362
>>1819363
Supporting these.
>>
>>1818989
>>We need results now. The NCR are not waiting, not certainly for the most moral of choices. If for the greater good and to save more lives, we have to crack a few eggs, it is one of the hard choices we must make

In for a penny, in for a pound.
Lets not pretend we are good guys anymore. I might vote differently before we betrayed BoS and enslaved Diana.

Besides, we will kill tons of Legion soldiers, and we know for a fact that they will fight to death and will never surrender. Might as well get use of them.


OP, did we scan the tranq gun?
>>
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>>1819341
You take your 4 year olds on a tour through the facilities. At such a young age, though bright and eager, you don't expect them to retain much yet but getting used to sights, sounds, and places will be helpful especially when they get older.

The training ground is in use and not safe for small children, but they get to see the big strong soldiers in training, and you tell them they are taller than the other people because you used science to make them tall and strong. Christine says her mommy said they put computer chips in their brains and in their muscles to make them smart and strong, and that they also take out their brains to talk to, like Daddy's brain. You praise her for remembering well.

Richard says he wants to have his brain removed and be strong too, and you tell him he'll have to wait until his brain stops growing when he's older.

Next you take them to the robot factory, the observation room at least. Here you show them this is where the robots are made, from Mr. Handy's to big Securitrons, that protect the nation. Samuel and Christine like it here, both of them want to play with the controls, but you show them what they do instead and tell them and show them a little bit about repair.

Hmm, you consider inventing small safe toys to teach children about electronics. Better tack that onto the school action in general.

Royce meanwhile is always trying to sneak off somewhere and touch things, just because he's curious. He reminds you of yourself at that age. Rather than instill fear in him and suppress his abilities, you show him the danger signs and their meaning, and how you yourself when sneaking have to be aware of danger. You tell him you will build a place for him to practice how to sneak and hide, and how to avoid danger.

Lastly you show them the Military HQ, where the ZAX and General Kreger are planning a military operation. It takes a lot of smart people and smart machines, working together, to plan an operation. There they have a holographic map of the Divide, and you show them how to read a map and remember places and geographic directions like north, south, east, and west.

>con't
>>
>>1819385
>OP, did we scan the tranq gun?
Yes.

You can make more of it through replication but modifying it to be better will take research. But its pretty good right now.

The gun insists you implement something to where he is easily recognizeable a the first.

>OW Tran Gun
"Bugger if I'm going to be just another clone! I'm the first of my class!"
>>
>>1819385
I will give you that Diana was a distasteful action. However it was necessary. As to the BoS they dont know shit and they are not compatible with us.

You have the right in the fact that many will die. It is our choices in how we go about this how many it is. Precision strikes and overwhelming force can end the war far earlier than a trench war that drags on. However I dont think that if we give the Legion soldiers a chance to surrender none will take it. We should not butcher the senselessly.
>>
>>1819389
Give/carve/paint it a name.
"Jolly hunt" maybe?
>>
>>1819391
We only need about 40 brains. I really doubt we will be able to wage war with Legion and avoid killing more than 40 people.
I'd say that about 80% of their soldiers should be absolute diehard soldiers who will never surrender (like the prisoner we had).
>>
>>1819389
Gold plating and a little crown on the scope.

Also this >>1819393
>>
>>1819393
>>1819395

>Not naming it Teddy Roosevelt

Come on guys
>>
>>1819394
Probably true. I expect many of them will want to die over being with us. However I think the reality of the situation of a giant hoverbot mowing down people will make you think twice. Add to that the fact that everybody is different and I expect that 20% is a good starting point for surrender. Screen the survivors and give them new lives (under heavy surveilance) and have them slowly convert themselves.

I dont want us to not defend ourselves because the people might be not that bad but I also dont want unnecessary bloodshed. Everyone deserves a second chance. But not a third one.
>>
>>1819398
Seems more british than cigar-smokin, whisky-drinkin, tobacco-spittin, yankee.
>>
>>1819362
>>1819364
You do your best to tell your children these lessons, as far as 4 year olds can grasp moral concepts and ideologies, which isn't much. Maybe when they're older.

Though a little bit of it makes sense. Christine and Samuel mostly think technology is cool, Richard says when he grows up he'll "be the best soldier! Like Daddy! I'm never gonna die!"

>>1819374
>>1819363
You tell them a little bit about some of your adventures, censored mostly. Okay, a lot. They're able to tell you what parts of it they liked, Richard likes the parts where you zap the bad guys and they turn to ash, Christine and Samuel ask lots of questions, Royce wants to explore new places like you.

>>1819361
They all hug you and love you too, some of them even cry when you have to go.

"Come back soon Daddy."
>>
>>1819405
>They all hug you and love you too, some of them even cry when you have to go.
>"Come back soon Daddy."

Aww
>>
>>1819405
Next you're off to visit the Chinese.

You visit your In-Laws, who invite you to dinner. You chat with them politely, practicing your Mandarin. You ask them how life is, and they say things have been good since the nightmare has ended. The Chinese have been expanding into the mothership and gaining new technological insights, and there is more room for families. Everyone is still hoping for the "great day when we can build New China" (i.e. when they get to colonize the outside world) and are proud of their soldiers fighting for the "America-China Alliance".

Both your daughters (their grandchild and grandniece(?)) are given to the State Training Program.

So you decide to visit them. Dandan is there as the head of their elite program.

---

You enter the main town again, and pass through their school. Its much larger than the one you have and by all that you see, far far more disciplined and in use. Education and training of the youth is a fundamental part of their communist chinese ideology.

Chinese Children, at least the ones here, like their people, seem to be a lot more formal and mature than their New World counterparts. Students walk in neat rows and lines, follow rules and guidelines, and wear their school uniforms clean and orderly.

Most of the students are at a big assembly hall, where Dandan is, and you are invited there. There's a big crowd sitting and watching silently as a small girl is performing some sort of intricate sword dance on stage.

Then you realize its Sam.
>>
>>1819424
Is there a location suitable nearby? Any old semi-town we can give the chinese that is not too far away from us? We can build the houses, water and other facilities ourselves but is there somewhere suitable? Preferably a few miles from NW.

The point is to get them out of the ship and start using it as more than squatting space. Maybe we can figure out more alien tech.
>>
>>1819424
You can tell a lot about a person and what they've been through by body language. And Sam is speaking volumes to you.

You watch her body, moving firm and gracefully without hesitation or tremble, as though she had practiced this a hundred times, seemingly treating the weapon in her arm as an extension of her body which is now like a 9 year olds. Her balance and agility are sharpened, strength tapered with finesse.

Her ginger hair is kept neatly, not messy and loose as before, and on her face you see a slow burning determination in her eyes, utterly concentrated and focused. You see a few scars on her cheek and chin.

She dances and whirls and pantomimes, thrusting kicks and punches, not once slipping up or being distracted even as a hundred eyes stare at her. Even as you are clearly there watching her.

Whatever Dandan and the Chinese are doing here, its very effective.

When it is over, silence reigns the room, as is the Chinese tradition they do not clap or holler. Silence seems to have an heir of respect to it, and she bows and walks off stage.

>con't
>>
>>1819436
Not really, at least, not already taken.

The east has Baker and after baker is the Mojave and the Legion proper.

The west at Barstow is the NCR.

Trona has no water.

And newberry springs is already being pumped to BigMT with only enough water to maintain the farms and people living there.

If there are other good places, they'd be further away than the "Big" Empty.
>>
>>1819424
Should we.... should we let the Chinese colonise the nursery? Obviously the facilities would be off limit and the tribals would live separately
>>
>>1819443
How many live in newberry? Can we not ship the chinese over there and build subterranian farms to conserve water? That way there is already some infrastructure there. And we can build on that. Make a railway to it and add power lines and Alexa support. Should be doable. We can really use the farmers more for skilled jobs.
>>
>>1819444
No, keep exposure to a minimum. If we settle them there the risk of discovery rises harshly and we risk losing the base.
>>
>>1819444
>>1819448
Why don't we just..set up our Utah colony already?
With that we get space where the Chinese can settle and link the Nursery with our border.
>>
>>1819450
That is a possibility. If they agree to agressively expand and keep the border secure I fully agree to have them settle there. The only problem I have is connection. They need to be fully connected to our system and we need to be able to dictate our goals to them. If we keep them in line they can have all of Utah to frollock in. However, we should also slowly assimilate them. Have them learn our language and start taking our ideals to heart. I understand they are basically vassals already, now we just have to annex.
>>
>>1819448
Agreeing with this, I don't think that's a good idea.

Letting them settle the outside is cool (at least somewhere within our territory), but not the Nursery.
>>
>>1819457
Hmm. You're right. We should wait till we turn big Mt green and then have them settle close by our capital. That way we can passively influence and assimilate them.
>>
I think it is funny how Chinese are afraid that American capitalist ideals will take over when our society is not exactly capitalistic.
>>
>>1819437
You meet up with Dandan, and she's glad to see you.

She seems happy to be back at the mothership, training the next generation.

You ask her about what training entails. The Chinese emphasize discipline, fortitude, teamwork and individual sacrifice. Sam is part of a select group which is kept to higher standards than even the rest of the Chinese school children, bred specifically from ages 7 and up to be Chinese Warriors.

Everything is regimented and on a schedule that they themselves maintain. Being dressed and outside for morning exercises by 5:45 till 7:30, a short time for breakfast where they cook their own meals and clean their own dishes until 8:50, then more training until 11:50 for lunch, then training begins again sharply at 12:10 till 4:00 when educational studies begin and then at last at 6:20 they are called to wash up: they only shower twice a week, a wet cloth must suffice them everywhere else, but they are also expected to clean and iron their own clothes. By 8:30 they have to be in their dorms, and then its lights out.

Normal students get every sunday off. Sam and the other Crimson Dragoon prospects get the first sunday of every month off, but can expect night time training that same day. Every other sunday is Crimson Dragoon specific training which are harsh and it is expected to be where most prospects are weaned away.

Sam, like everyone else in the group, must maintain not only a standard to avoid being kicked out but compete with the very best of the normal students to stay in the program or be replaced.

Sam had a lot to learn, as both an outsider and reliant on her hive-mind. But she was a fast learner, both of the language and of their ways. She had to train her to dull her own pain, hunger, or weakness, which are natural and important warning signals, but allow herself to feel and concentrate through it. Sam chose to keep the scars from injuries she gathered, heal them like any other person, so that she remembers her failures and learns from her mistakes.

Thus far, Sam is Dandan's best pupil. They get a visit from their parents every six months, so if you wish to speak to her, now is the time.

>Dandan
"Normally, they continue their training until they are 13 when they get two years to be at home with family, before committing to our adult training program by 16. From there they train until they are 18, and that is when they can decide to take the VR test or hold off to continue their training.

But, since she is accelerating at such a rapid pace, I will release her in 1 and a half more years if she continues to exceed my standards."
>>
>>1819463
>Do you want to visit Sam?
>>
>>1819463
Where's Xinshi?
>>
>>1819463
Wow. I didn't realize this training regimen was supposed to take so long. I thought it would be like 4 months maximum.

Let's meet with Sam. Also call Unity.

Oh, and where is Xinshi? We want to see her too.
>>
>>1819467
Definitely. Call Unity here too.
>>
>>1819468
>>1819469
At their version of Preschool.
>>
>>1819473
Well, meet her too. She's our daughter after all.
>>
>>1819469
>>1819476
1 for this.

Anyone else?
>>
>>1819477
Do we really need to vote for visiting our children?
>>
>>1819479
Eh, you know what, I'll jut write it up.
>>
You tell DanDan you will return at the first of next month with Unity and want to visit Sam, and she agree's.

---

Both you and Sam enter the ship, as she walks everyone is curious to see the "Red Haired Woman" who is the mother of Sam.

Many are shocked to see how . . .young she is compared to how old your daughter is. They were thinking that since Sam is growing so fast her mother would be like her too, only this is quite the opposite.

Sam and Dandan greet you at the gate of the school where she is wearing Chinese civilian clothing. She looks up to Dandan who nods and then she rushes up to give you and Unity a big hug.

>Sam
"Daddy! Mom!"

She's smiling through tears, happy to see you again. Unity is tearing up too.

>Unity
"I missed you so much Sam."

>Sam
"I missed you to mom."

>Unity
"I'm so proud of you, you've grown up so much. I want to know what it was like here."

>Sam
"Let me tell you mom. I've learned so much!"

Sam turns to you then and gives you a death grip of a hug. You are reminded of how strong she was before, but now she seems even stronger. "I missed you too daddy."

>What say
>>
>>1819487
Tell her that we miss her a lot too and we can't wait till her training is over.
Tell her that we are very proud of her.
>>
Also encourage her to keep excelling then she can finish her training faster and reunite with us
>>
>>1819487
What old does Unity look like?
>>
>>1819487
Go with >>1819489 >>1819490 and move on with the turn. We have things to do and a nation to build.
>>
Which one anons?
http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Purifier
http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Avatar_(Tiberium_Wars)
http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Core_Defender
>>
>>1819491
16-17 give or take.

>>1819489
>>1819490
The both of you spend your day with Unity, catching up. She tells you about her training, about the friends she's made here, the people she competes with. She's learned a lot about Chinese culture and history, and is an A+ student.

From the way she acts, you definitely do get the impression she's matured a lot both emotionally and mentally.

Both of you give her your love and support, telling her that her siblings miss her, and so does Joeclyn and her other friends to, encouraging her to pursue excellence and her dreams. That you can''t wait until she'll be ready to come home again. Unity doesn't even mention hive-mind or anything like that.

You yourself are happy to see that Sam seems happy with herself.

>>1819469
>>1819468
You also visit Xinshi after she comes home from Preschool. She's a bright young 4 year old, who isn't sure what she wants to be yet. She likes to play games, and so you spend some time playing games with her. Dandan is watching her and seeing if she'll have what it takes for her to consider her program..
>>
>>1819494
Avatar. Making a machine for us?
>>
>>1819499
I'm considering what kind of giant robot we should build in the future.
>>
You replicate a (Large) package MLA's Junk Guided Missile Launchers and bring them by train to the Divide, where you begin moving the carts to the MLA's tunnel entrance.

Inside their tunnel network, some sort of Shaman Type in heavy radiation suit and leather and fur jacket awaits.

He points to your pocket, where you pull out a piece of paper. You're pretty sure you put it there. . .you think? It's the old contract.

>Shaman
"Our god has spoken. If you wish to enter the MLA lands, you will re-sign the pact.

But now we expect it to extend beyond your visits. This is a time nearing a great attack, and so we are increasing our vigilence"

Its the exact same contract as before, only it doesn't end when you leave and go. Thus, it ends if you break it or you tell them you wish to render it null (without any loss or penalty, so long as neither of you have voided the contract) but you will also be expected to leave the MLA if you do.

>You
(Since when did hocus pocus become so goddamn bureacratic. What is this, the NCR?)

>Accept
>Refuse
>>
>>1819500
At that scale I think a walking platform would be better. We have no use for arms that big anyway. For medium size something like this might be good. Powerful weapons on a tall frame. The arms or head add very little.
>>
>still wide awake
Fuck, why can't this happen at much better times


If you have any questions or want to pose dialogue just say so.
>>
>>1819500
Or for truly large scale, this seems good. >>1817222


>>1819505
Fucking cunts. Then ask them to do the same. No villager or piece of property claimed by us, directly or proxy, shall be touched. This includes salvage from the Divide, any tunnels we dig, land we grab and so on.
>>
>>1819512
Supporting. They do the exact same for us until otherwise..
>>
>>1819506
But i like giant humanoid death machines!
Perche no lo dos?
If we do go for the walking platform can we make a London Monitor?
>>
>>1819512
>Shaman
"Yeah, why don't you just claim the whole world while you are at it.

Our property is marked, you can see them clearly. Tell us what territory you claim as yours or if you cannot for safety which people you call allies, and we will not harm them so long as you do not harm ours."
>>
>>1819518
>Yeah, why don't you just claim the whole world while you are at it.
Well now, that's tempting.
>>
>>1819505
Also, we dont know whether anything we do outside MLA space is bad or not. We could shoot a bystander by accident and have that turn out to be a spy, maybe among the things we take over is a claimed shrine. Whatever. This whole thing is too vague to be really plausible. When in MLA territory it is fine. Their land their rules. In our lands we set the rules and they obide. That is final.

>>1819514
REALLY dislike the three legs. That thing topples over in the first step it makes. bipeds are more stable in that. And if you can reasonably explain the need for arms and a head I have no problem with it but they seem like wasted resources and whats more, wasted mass thats has to be transported around.
>>
>>1819518
>Our property is marked, you can see them clearly.
>>1819521
We'll do it the old-fashioned way, planting flags everywhere regardless if people are already there or not!
>>
>>1819518
And this is exactly the thing they ask of us. Respect their stuff wherever it is. And if they send a singe asshole into a hostile village they can take it over without us being able to shoot for fear of hitting the zealot and losing our arm or soul or whatever. This is so stupid.
>>
>>1819522
>REALLY dislike the three legs. That thing topples over in the first step it makes. bipeds are more stable in that.
Eh, Qm should still have Rule-of-Cool enabled so i don't believe that matters.
>>
>>1819505
No. It means we have to visit them and declare war if we go against them
>>
>>1819518
Lets have an expiration rate on the contract. Like half of a year (6 turns) or something.
>>
>>1819514
But monkeylords anon. The workhorse of the cybran army.
>>
>>1819522
"Accidents happen. We don't know your spies, you don't know ours. Shots miss, explosions throw shrapnel, the wrong people die. We know.

We are not machines, we are servants of the unliving god.

>When in MLA territory it is fine. Their land their rules. In our lands we set the rules and they obide
"This is acceptable, but if we are encroaching your land or your people you will inform us, just as we will inform you if you encroach upon one of ours."

>Accept?
>Refuse
>>
>>1819510
During the hub dialogue, you mentioned Miles being paid in SM chips. Is this special for him, or have our education / incentive reforms introduced an SM currency across our society?

>>1819529
Supporting this
>>
>>1819528
No, it means they have us by the balls since whenever we intrude upon their space they can cry foul and take our arm or some shit.

>>1819529
An expiration of "as long as we are in their land" :D Im fine with this.
>>
>>1819530
Hey i wanna build those too!
>>
>>1819518
>>1819531
How much territory and property is claimed by the Cult and contracted MLA? Does the MLA have the same type of contracts the Cult has?
>>
>>1819532
They haven't been completely reformed yet. It was part of the package deal you gave him a long time ago to make him the nations official architect and infrastructure manager. You aren't paying him in gold literally, but SM chips/ration overflow can be stored up and exhanged for gold coins
>>
>>1819537
"The Elder God places his shadow over the MLA, it is ours."
>>
>>1819531
Refuse. Not getting tied up in that mystic bullshit. To easy to get screwed.
>>
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>>1819535
For our "experimental" I envision our capitol taking to the air to reign fire and nuclear death onto our foes below. The city will have a death beam already, added shields, PD towers and more. If we make it fly as well we have the ultimate symbol of our technological prowess. We have the mothership and the scoutship. We can learn the lessons and use them to truly complete our city.
>>
>>1819539
Do we need a CIV action to complete the education / currency incentive reform - or is it just naturally happening?

Second question, what do our prominent citizens wish we'd focus more attention on (beyond the provision of luxuries)?
>>
>>1819543
Agreed. If they will not give us fair terms then this is shit.
>>
>>1819545
So we turn our pyramid city into a Monolith? Neat.

Are we going to try making those resurrection staffs too?
>>
>>1819545
Well good thing we're already have a design for an inertia drive airship.
>>
>>1819546
Civ or Construction

Define prominent citizens? If you mean the general populace, everyone would like windows. More water for grass, ponds, stuff like that.

A big wall would make them feel safer, even though you have robots patrol constantly.

Unless those are considered luxuries too.

Really though luxuries and cultural goods are typically at the forefront of most wastelanders.
>>
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>>1819545
Imagine it is a cloudy day and the NCR base has just lost contact with its scout flyers. 2 minutes later the forward outpost loses signal. 7 minutes after that the populace hears a deep rumbling in the clouds. Then the clouds part over the city as New Washington descends through the clouds and starts vaporizing resistance.

Pic related, though more angular and with pyramids.
>>
>>1819547
What is fair/unfair about the deal to you? Want to know for any character insights
>>
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>>1819548
Remember our robots use self-repair tech? Turn it to 11 and make alien metal the main component. Add shields and watch the carnage. Teleport any wounded bots out to be repaired and replaced.
>>
>>1819550
>If you mean the general populace, everyone would like windows.
They're going to keep asking for windows, aren't they?
>Really though luxuries and cultural goods are typically at the forefront of most wastelanders.
Good thing to know we're at the luxury stage. Not many post-apocalyptic civs reach that point.

>>1819553
I think it has to do with how this contract is almost entirely arbitrated by the Elder God themself, so they could pull a sport's referee where their side is given a blind eye, but ours isn't.
>>
>>1819553
When we leave can we just say that we close the contract? Doesn't mean we are hostile or anything.

Basically the contract is in effect till either side says otherwise?
>>
>>1819553
Well they have all the authority. Unless they blatantly go against terms they would be fine. We slightly go against terms and we get screwed. Traditional deal with devil stuff.
>>
>>1819553
Essentially this leaves the loophole of purposeful sabotage on our end. If we, in MLA territory, fuck up, then it is our head. Outside of the MLA it should be fair game. If we kill one of their priests outside they may dislike us but their god cant rip our arm off or eat our soul or whatever. This, however changes that so we are completely defenseless against them on account of us basically being a hostage.
>>
>>1819548
>>1819556
Research this if you want resurrection sticks. >>1819327
>>
>>1819563
Valence radii-whetevers probably dont work on robots that well. Like stims or other drugs.
>>
>>1819558
It means that you can't just hop over the border, nullify the contract, and come back to wreck shit. And it also means if you want to end it you tell them you want to end it, unless you just break it. They want to ensure no interference against the upcoming attack.

Its the same contract as before, with the guarantee on your side, and also the understanding that "accidents happen".

They say they aren't machines and won't kill you for the slightest loophole or errors in logic like accidentally shooting a spy you weren't aware of. If something happens that's not right like invading an ally, you tell each other.
The contract mentions they despise technical loopholes.
>>
>>1819556
I just realized we already have a robot skeleton design.
Now all we need to give them is disintegrator cannons, teleportation and even better self repair tech than usual and we have Necrons.
>>
>>1819564
Yea but i'm more interested in how it heals people without being in contact with them.
hell it's a hologram i think, how does it heal anyway?
>>
>>1819562
If their priest attacks you causing you to kill him back, the contract will be nullified. If you just decide to shoot one of their priests, or you genuinely didn't know in your heart he was a priest by accident, then its still in effect.
>>
>>1819550
>Define prominent citizens?
People who would be considered the 'elite' of our society.

Miles, Kreger, Arcade - other companions with positions of importance
>>
>>1819569
>Miles
"Getting more water and power"

>Arcade
"Although I'd like education to be improved, yeah more water and power."

>Kreger
"More water and power would make our city more secure, especially in times of war."
>>
>>1819566
Well and armour. Necrons are heavily armoured.
>>
>>1819565
>It means that you can't just hop over the border, nullify the contract, and come back to wreck shit.
Aw dammit that's what i'm planning to do!
>>
>>1819565
probably on our end. But technical loopholes work wonders on theirs.
>>
>>1819565
What do they think of putting in expiration?
>>
>>1819581
They'll settle for the expiration being the end of the NCR as a nation. Or 10 years.
>>
>>1819568
No, if I want to shoot a priest outside of the MLA. I shoot him and the other priest are pissy. Thats it. If I do the same thing under the contract I lose an arm. That is shit. We dont want a shit contract. The old one worked and we want that. Otherwise they lose support in their war effort. We are not here to convert to their way.

The hag is basically asking us to give them a free pass. This is not ok.
>>
>>1819583
Hell no. The MLA goes first. Im not letting them juice up on millions of souls. That would just be screwing ourselves over.
>>
>>1819583
That's way to much, denied.
>>
>>1819583
Absurd. We dont want their god and we certainly dont want them to influence us in any way. If they decide "this is our land" when we are taking over a stretch and cry foul we are, again, fucked. This is just too ambiguous.
>>
>If they decide "this is our land" when we are taking over a stretch and cry foul

"Did not you make a deal with Niner? He that is conqueror takes what he conquers. We would not take land we did not fight for, anymore than you can claim our war spoils.

The spoils of war of join action will be shared justly by negotiation."
>>
>>1819591
No.
>>
Just wanted to make sure there weren't any misconceptions going on.

If you guys are going to refuse the same contract then I'll just update the new turn.

>>1819584
>No, if I want to shoot a priest outside of the MLA. I shoot him and the other priest are pissy. Thats it. If I do the same thing under the contract I lose an arm.
You consider that is sort of the point. Why would it be more acceptable to shoot one of them outside their border, as it is inside their border. Anymore than you would be made if one of yours was shot outside your border, instead of in it.

>The old one worked and we want that.
It technically is the same contract, it just avoids the "border hop" loophole
>>
>>1819591
And again, you want us to trust you. We have no way to discern your motivations other than what you say. What we had previously worked well in that, if we dont fuck up in your land, we dont get fucked. If we leave your land we dont have to worry. This essentially means we are at your mercy for whatever we do and the only guarantee we have is your word. This is, frankly unacceptable. We offer you trade and you try to shackle us.
>>
>>1819595
And if we do decide we dont like them we have no way out of it besides either waiting 10 years or killing the NCR. Both of these options leave them considerably more powerful than before. Not to mention, again, possibility of getting shafted for random shit. And who decides hat is and isnt random? Their god? We are fucked either way.

I say no deal.
>>
>>1819596
"It is the same contract, it simply extends the pledge of nonhostilities beyond borders. It would mean we would be as much bound not to attack you anywhere we find you, as much as ours

'Don't fuck with us, and we do not fuck with you'

But if this simple thing is unacceptable to you, then that speaks enough to us. You may not pass."
>>
>>1819595
>It technically is the same contract, it just avoids the "border hop" loophole
And if they dont trust us enough for this, why should we trust them?
>>
>>1819599
Fine then tell niner he doesn't get his launchers.
>>
>>1819598
>And if we do decide we dont like them we have no way out of it
You can just go to them and tell them you want to end the contract, as they said. They will oblige, and you will be asked to leave.

>>1819602
"We will tell him."
>>
Can we consult our brain about this?
>>
>>1819603
>You can just go to them and tell them you want to end the contract, as they said. They will oblige, and you will be asked to leave.
Then what is the point if we cancel every time we leave? This is either stupidly in favour of them or useless. Rethink your shit.

>>1819602
Yes. If he wants them we are happy to sell them to him without the mumbo-jumbo crap.
>>
>>1819603
Wait. Wait.

If that's the case that we can end the contract anytime then I'm for it. They just have to provide free passage out of their lands once we end it.
>>
>>1819606
You leave to have a private conversation with your brain, far from their ears with the silly helmet on.

>Brain
"Hmmm. It seems to me the entire point of this is that they want to prevent some sort of perceived back-stab on your part during what may be a crucial time for them. And by you refusing to accept this, they would likely perceive that your intention is not to remain neutral to them at all but to inevitably betray them."


>>1819608
"It stands to reason they will be on high alert if you cancel the contract prematurely, and this serves as a means for them to be aware you may have intentions against them. They will probably become very suspicious after that."
>>
>>1819610
"Yes, so long as you are not attempting to steal or theft from us or harm us on the way out, we will respect your ability to leave."
>>
>>1819602
>>1819603
RIP secret military trade deal to MLA Raiders, killed by Elder God bureaucracy.

The more we learn about the Great Elder One, the less I think he's an Elder God and the more I think he's the Devil disguised as an Elder God.

>>1819606
Sounds good. Brain knows best.
>>
>>1819611
So they'll be suspicious of us backstabbing them regardless of if we accept the contract or not.
>>
>>1819611
Yeah, no. Doesn't matter. Let them be o. Alert. Better than them having us by the balls.
>>
>>1819617
"Well, if you accept the contract they'd probably have the consolation that it would be very costly for you to betray them and that you don't intend to.

I'm worried about that "take from us and we will take back more" clause. I'd advise not to accept this deal if you truly do intend to betray them."
>>
>>1819619
Yep, not signing this contract.
I vote to leave.
>>
Writing the new update and the constructions
>>
>>1819621
LET"S GO SUBTERRANEAN TUNNEL NETWORK!
>>
>>1819611
Then let them be suspicious. We didnt attack before so why should we now (we will, they dont know that). We want a system that allows us to come and go without worry to increase trade. By doing this they either want to fuck us or they want to enslave us. Either way is shit. If this keeps up we will need them to come to us. Currently we are venturing deep into their territory unarmed and willing to abide by their laws. And now that is suddenly not enough?? Bullshit.

QM, I understand what you want to do but this is so bad an option for us it is ridiculous.
>>
>>1819623
>Currently we are venturing deep into their territory unarmed.
Now hold on a minute, we aren't unarmed. technically, our entire body counts as a weapon.
Everything else is correct though.
>>
>>1819621
>>1819599
>>1819603
>>1819616
"Sorry, we don't know enough about the full picture on your side to place enough trust on these terms."
I gotta ask, what is the Elder One actually like? He seems less like an eldritch abomination and more like the Devil. What does he do with all the blood sacrifices and contracts and stuff? What's his goal? What does he look like?

>>1819623
As it stands, yeah.
>>
>>1819623
Well its essentially a divine Non agression pact. We have one with the NCR. Only difference is we can't bullshit it as we betray them. Which makes it a bad deal.
>>
>>1819621
Well tell them that we can conduct trade at this outpost in the Divide. Or send message to Niner saying that.
We do have a large shipment of AA launchers
>>
>>1819623
I dont want to do anything anon, I write what the characters write.

>>1819623
>Brain
"If I were to make a further conjecture, it could be that, because they are planning a major thrust into contested territory, it doesn't actually count as MLA borders. Thus this protects against you deciding to say, hmmm, join the NCR and attack them on the battle instead.

I do wonder how this battle is going to go down. We lack any at all information on the status of the NCR-Legion front really."

>>1819628
"We will inform him."
>>
>>1819624
They have a fortresss with guns and we have personal weaponry. We are relatively unarmed and literally not an issue.
>>
YES
>>1819047
>>1819063
>>1819231
>>1819385
>>1819273

NO
>>1819009
>>1819013
>>1819053
>>1819056

Double checking
>>
>>1819633
Doesn't appear to be any double votes. if I missed votes link them, otherwise locking and writing
>>
>>1819633
Some of you guys are literally jumping down a slippery slope. Just because we did bad thinga doesn't mean we should continue.
>>
>>1819634
You counted me twice, for both.
My vote is for yes.
>>
>>1819635
And you want us to slow down our research to be nice to our enemies. Potentially double the time, even. This is the way to go.
>>
>>1819635
Meh, i only plan to dissect brains from bad people who were gonna be executed anyways like Legionnaires, and i got the impression other anons agree with me.
>>
>>1818989
>>1819633
These are the votes to see if we're abducting people for Brains, right?
>>
>>1819641
Correct

>>1819636
Got it
>>
>>1818989
>>We need results now. The NCR are not waiting, not certainly for the most moral of choices. If for the greater good and to save more lives, we have to crack a few eggs, it is one of the hard choices we must make
>>1819633
>>1819642
On the condition the people abducted for brains are people that would be deemed befitting of such a punishment. So no civilians or mostly decent people.
>>
>>1819635
desu I don't see this as bad as what we did with Diana. We are going to use brains of people who we are going to kill anyway.
Might be unethical since we'd need to experiment on live specimens but we wont be torturing them for the torture's sake.
>>
>>1819645
I just don't want to be the cause of unnecessary suffering.
>>
>>1819649
Meh, dying hurts too and it's not unnecessary suffering, the people we'll be dissecting will deserve the pain, or at least their victims will think so.
>>
>>1819649
Before we did the mind-rape thing I would have voted against this but now I don't make any illusions that our character is a good karma person. We are neutral at best.
>>
>>1819645
>>1819650
>>1819649
Aren't we putting them under anesthetics before we lobotomize them though?

>>1819652
So are you voting for karma's sake or are you voting because of unethical practicality?
>>
>>1819652
We can recognize that we did bad things and actively work to be better. We don't have to accept our karmic position as set in stone. And you are very much underestimating the bad karma of mind rape.
>>
>>1819656
>Aren't we putting them under anesthetics before we lobotomize them though?
Of course, our doctors will do their best to research brains as ethically as possible, there might still be some pain though.
>>
>>1819652
No we are strongly neutral. We prefer our people to have the best lives, we don unnecessarily cause pain and we dont go out of our way to kill people. What we ARE willing to do is to secure a better future for our people. If that means we interrogate a prisoner or take control of an AI then so be it. But we are not doing this to be evil. We are doing this for our people and our nation and our family.

We will never be the Lawful Good paladin. We WILL be the only real force for good out there.
>>
OP, does Diana have waterpurifier?
>>
There's opposition at first. Mostly lead by Arcade and Veronica. The idea of vivisecting Brains does not sit well for them, even if its upon "evil" persons. To kill a person is one thing, even execute them according to the rule of law, but to desecrate their body and invade their mind?

Bradley's Brain leads the supporting side and speaks like a true enclave scientists and points out the clear and present benefits, immediate benefits, from the loss of a few brains of people who on any other day would have their brains just spilled on the floor. Doctor Henry is clearly on the fence about, but perhaps falling back to his old Enclave ways too, he states the basic facts and that there will be clear benefits to doing this in a timely manner. We aren't using random villagers or prisoners of war ether, only the most heinous offenders.

Making your decision, you capitalize this. Like a true national leader you make an impassioned speech. You tell them they must be like the "wise surgeon" who when he notices the cancerous growth or the necrosis, cuts off the offending organ. If by further biopsy the body may be saved, it is worth it. The body does not live for the individual parts.

Scientific achievement costs sacrifices. The very Brain technology so used regularly by them all, was the result hundreds, maybe thousands of unwilling subjects. We are not asking for that, we are asking that the people, who should be removed from the wasteland as clear and present threats to anyone: the rapists, the slavers, the murderers, the sadists and barbaric, who to any officer of any law be they an NCR Ranger, a Brotherhood Paladin, or a Legionairy, would terminate.

But rather than simply spill yet more blood and brains upon the stained ground, they would be used for the benefit of mankind. To cure previously incurable diseases, dementia, Alzheimer, amnesia, tumors. To increase intelligence and intellect, to make people wiser, so that we might live in a world without raiders and without slavers and slaves.

You continue to press your case, using every bit of wit and grit you can, and very nearly fail, but just as you finish, the opposition group grows quiet.

They wash their hands of this, and acquiesce to your logic.

Now to actually go out and get the subjects.
>>
>>1819670
Yes.
>>
>>1819673
>They wash their hands of this, and acquiesce to your logic.
Was SINK involved in this?

>>1819675
Neat. Is it any different from the BoS's?
>>
>>1819675
Can we move it to big Mt so that it purifies the irradiated underground stream?
>>
>>1819673
Finally, logic wins out. Take the scoutship and search the nomansland between nations for offenders, see if our spy drones cant locate anything ineresting. Capture them with the ship and hand them over to the BigMT facilities to be processed and stored.
>>
>>1819678
Nah, its the same Vault Tec plus a conventional water purifier that simply stops and diverts radioactive water. Just like yours, it can't purify a river efficiently, but it can detect when the river becomes unclean and divert the flow until it passes.

Luckily the Valley draws its water from a deep aquifer that has seemingly gone untouched from the water.
>>
>>1819681
Does the NCR know about our alien ship?
If not we shouldn't scout at their borders.
>>
>>1819679
Its too big and bulky to move through the teleporter.
>>
>>1819684
Not their borders. NCR is watching us. Legally of course. We don't eant to do anything on that side. If we have to, find some legion scouting parties in colorado, like we did with the ZAX.
>>
>>1819686
What if we disassemble it and move by parts?
>>
>>1819698
We can just make one for ourselves. No need to start moving heavy machinery from the Valley. But we recently cut down on water anyways, so there is that.
>>
>>1819699
QM, with the reduced water need, can we settle the chinese in newberry with underground farms? Would this sustain their population well? Would they agree? They get a whole city to themselves but they are close enough to be protected. And we get the ship free of squatters, finally.
>>
QM ded?
>>
>>1819720
He's ded.
>>
>>1819565
Voting against taking the deal.
>>
>>1819565
Voting against the deal
>>
>>1819565
Their deal currently prevents us from negotiating to get our officer back. What would be a way to do that qm (that doesn't involve the courier doing what he does best, sneaking in and killing anyone in his way)
>>
>>1819785
>>1819793
We already refused, left and did family stuff.
>>
Catching up.


>>1818273
>I'm talking about the Old War AAs, not the Junk AAs. There's a good chance they'll eventually improve them, but I'd imagine that'd be a few years down the road. That was what they could reverse-engineer and get the industry for.
Aye but my point is that if we don't supply a solution then they'll adapt and overcome using their own resources.

>Wasn't that a cache of old Pipboys? I don't remember it being mentioned it could be used to produce more. Plus it was the equivalent of GPS units.
I swear it was a factory.

>See you then. Don't you worry your pretty little head anon, I'm sure we'll do something that you'll completely end up hating afterwards.
Quite possible but I doubt you'll do something wasteful so chances are it's fine.

>>1818989
Bit late to the vote but I'd say speed is a important thing. Fact is that the delay in these developments could (almost certainly will) cost us lives long term and the benefits of reversing amnesia and such are immense for our people. Especially given what it could do for the clarity of thought from the Thinktank and such.

>>1819167
Welp, we 40K flame tunnellers now...

>>1819190
God damn Diana is so fucking useful, she just made our farms insanely efficient (even more so when we get the underground ones built) and made them places that our people love to "visit". Please can we not force her to do other shit?

>>1819223
I love CEO. I know most believe that MAJOR is better for military stuff but CEO's style just speaks to me...

>>1819231
I don't condone the creation of any sentient with the sole purpose to throw them into a meat grinder. I don't disagree that we've done horrible things but they are nowhere near as bad to me. Killing? That person made the choice to stand in our way. Taking the brain? Fuck it, efficient. It'd be a waste otherwise. Lying? Cheating? Stealing? All the actions of a responsible leader. I've pushed for all of these but even I have moral limits. Shit that I can't do without feeling fucking horrifying. Clone warriors? That is one of my few limits. I can't imagine purposefully bringing someone into this world and throwing them into combat without choice on their part. It's slavery and child soldiers all in one. I don't care if you think it is efficient, we can achieve similar effect with robots and avoid the huge moral problem.

Which is why I agree. Use the brains to their full potential and get results now. But don't expect me to support clone armies or squads or divisions.

>>1819284
Agreed.

>>1819311
God dammit QM, stop making me hate using the Courier for long range, long term hero actions which keep him from his family...

>>1819343
Yeah we really need to update our military training and command facilities. Establishing a exercising facility for civilians would be good as well.

>>1819385
Morality isn't a light switch. We are still the good guys. Just...not as good. We can make it up later but I understand your point.
>>
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>>1819794
Asking them for her directly? Evidently they are her real owner now.

>>1819673
For all you hate the NCR, the Legion, and the BoS to varying degees, they are doing their job.

The wasteland under the protection of nations is different than it was 50 or 100 years ago. Gone are the raider gangs an the rule of law, having been killed, imprisoned, or fled (likely into the MLA) and the MLA is a no-go.

To the east, further east than Caesar's Legion and south of the Midwest Brotherhood, there is the northern Texas and Oklahoma territory, but even here the influences of nations are sometimes seen. Fringe Legion villages, and occasiona signs of Brotherhood tracks.

It is to the far north that you find the wasteland as it has been for 200 years. Without nations, without leaders, and withotu hope.

The vast expanses of the Montana, and the North and South Dakota. Only flags of tribes and raiders fly here, on the most daring couriers and the bravest lawmen dare to come. The great seas of tall grass stretch from eye to eye, hiding secrets of ancient past from dead robots, to cars, and of course, the bones of the dead.

The wild wasteland in its most untammed.

There are people here, and villages, and towns, and some towns trying to form nations. Maybe in 100 years they might, but the great spark that lit up in Calfornia, or Chicago, or Caesar did not strike here yet.

You bring with you a squad of your best eyebots and ED-E, as well as a miniature expendable version of SPI in one of them.

You have a quota to fill. You need both men and women. You need young and old. You need different skin colors. You need a variation of brains.

But more than that you need to pick the right people. Even among bad men, there are degrees. The highwayman who robs for his next meal, is not the same as the raider with a full belly that takes pleasure in skinning wayward travelers and lost children. Which is in fact, one of your very first captures.

You manage to find a whole family of psycopaths. Two teenage siblings and their parents. You had observe them capture some wayward travelers and followed them home, you simply got to where home is before them. There you smelled it, the rotten gore, and found the skinless corpses and heads and arms in the refrigerator.

With your medical skills you were able to decude other things. They avoided the brains, spine, and liver eating only the meat of the thighs and arms. This is good medically speaking, as it means their bodies would be less likely to be infected with the "Cannibal Shakes", or Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease. A form of Mad Cow Actually.

Not that you are a Cannibal yourself. . .but if you ever decided one day you needed to or die, well, it would be good to know.

With your new gun, that you have named and decorated as "Jolly Hunt", you bag them and tag them. Their captive, ironically, was a Courier like you.

Hmmm.
>Offer to take him with you to BigMT. Every new man counts!
>Leave him be
>>
>>1819812
Take him along. But check him for shakes and put him under priority surveillance
>>
>>1819812
>>Offer to take him with you to BigMT. Every new man counts!
>>
>>1819424
>>1819437
I wonder if we could incorporate some of their education and discipline techniques into our own society and school systems. The effectiveness is admirable.

>>1819450
That'd be a pretty smart idea.

>>1819462
To be fair I've said in past we should just shift to a communist society or become a state under capitalism: a syndicalist state. Where everyone has a share in the profit of the nation.

>>1819812
>Offer to take him with you to BigMT. Every new man counts!
Eh, free citizen.
>>
>>1819795
My bad
>>
f
>>
>>1819812
>Evidently they are her real owner now.
The hell they are!

Voting in support for >>1819823
>>
>>1819823
>>1819825
>>1819826
>You
[Hey, are you a Courier? What's your name]

>David
"David."

>You
[Alright David. See my flying machine? See these assholes right here? I'm taking them in my aircraft to the city I run.

It's a peaceful city, isolated from the rest of the world, with a better standard of living you'll find anywhere here for 100 miles, free food and water, and the only thing I expect from people who wanna join is to obey the law and preferably stay inside.]

>David
"That sounds. . nice"

>You
[You want in, or did you become a Courier cause your feet itched too much staying in one place]

>David
"Fuck no. I'm done with this shit."

He picks up his courier bag and his jacket and tosses it away.

>You
[Welcome to the Pheonix Commonwealth my friend]
>>
>>1819841
To be frank we should see about moving a few squads of Loaders and shit over here and taking over. It seems like somewhere our superior technology and shit could easily convince towns and tribes to join us and it's a region filled with scrap / OW ruins and shit. Perfect for us.

Then we use that and our region in the south (after conquering the Legion) to attack either the MLA or the NCR depending on how strong they are and shit. That or we focus on expanding further, the Institute or the BOS.
>>
>>1819844
Maybe once we get a power source. Fly out a teleporter with an attached generator and use that as the main transport system. We should really work on the teleporter tech. I want stargates for travel between fixed locations.
>>
>>1819858
it fits with the pyramid scheme
>>
>>1819860
Great. We're goa'uld now. We should really look hard at how many villanous factions we're emulating.
>>
>>1819861
Necrons FTW!!!
>>
>>1819861
I mean, We haven't invented snake parasite organisms yet......
>>
>>1819862
Oldcrons or Newcrons?
>>
>>1819864
Lets not.
>>
>>1819844
>>1819858


I wish OP would post a map which updates with places we visit and points of interest. I have really hard time visualizing these things. For example, I have no idea where New Washington is supposed to be located in Big Mt

Anyway, yeah. That's a great idea.
>>
>>1819867
Bestcrons
>>
>>1819871
Well new washington is right outside, isn't it? Everythijg else is mostly real places, except places in the boonies like cannibal shack #1138
>>
>>1819873
I don't want to go to hard into the 40k fanboy route, but there is a lot of things we can / probably should emulate from the setting.
>>
>>1819874
That's not exactly what I mean. I know I could just get on google maps and look at thing but I'd prefer an in-quest map with known borders and places
>>
>>1819878
Like the imperium star ships. Those are sexy. Big, beautiful prow.
>>
Although they agree'd to the idea, swallowing it for your message of working for the greater good and the benefit of mankind and science, few of your human scientists want to touch this or even look at it.

That's okay though. You've got others.

The Auto-Doc and Mr. Orderly are okay with it, in as much as they are programmed to obey. As is Dr. Bradley's Brain. And last but not least, the Think Tank.

In the longest of time, this is probably the most appropriate and familiar task you have ever given the Think Tank. There is something intuitive and natural to them about live brain vivisection, as though the muscle memory were still strong. You don't even have to come up with another lie, you simply say "we need more data on nuerology Dr. Klein" and they go "YES"

---

The thing about the most evil people in the world, is how very undifferent they act from everyone else when faced with the prospect of something very horrible. They shout, they rage, they scream, they cry, they snot they piss and shit themselves like everybody else.

What was it Joshua said? the "cries are those of a mad beast caught in a thicket"

They have to be awake for this. Every one. You need to be able to know what they are feeling, sight, hearing, sound, smell, taste You need to be know if they still have the capability to tell you what they are feeling.

You are honest, you don't lie and make it sound any better or worse than it is. "You will be awake for this, we need you to talk. If we have to make you talk, we will, so it would be better that you complied as much as you can."

The Brain is a giant switchboard, and you're searching for all the switches to find which are the on and off positions. It's not enough to just say the "Frontal Lobe" is where the thinking is. Which specific parts govern what, which folds and creases are most ideal for modification and access. Find where the memory centers are, if you can turn them on and off, download them, modify or replace them. Every facet of the mind and human psyche laid open like a repairman opening up a computer terminal. And this is but one single facet of a myriad of experiments to be done.

They ask you for final requests. Final mercies and anything to delay even for seconds. The father wants to eat a feast of human flesh, the mother wants to hear the screams and cries of pain, and the siblings. . .want a bedroom a night to themselves and to hold hands through the surgery. You grant them their requests, replicating human meat and cooking it with vegetables and spices, placing the wife in a VR simulation, and the brother and sisters request as well.

The family of Cannibals savour these things as any would who knew this would be the last time they could.

---

The data you receive in the next few days are incredible.
>>
>>1819871
Imagine if BigMT is like a big crater, someone scooped out a mountain with a huge explosion.

Everything around this crater is vast, californian desert dry and cracked with the ocasional sand dunes.

A few blocks away, following both a road and a railroad from one of the entrances to BigMT is New Washington, with a lake next to it, a pipeline, railroad, water treatment facility and the likes.
>>
>>1819878
I definitely agree. We could have allot of fun with a teleport er pad in a factory and a giant pyramid shaped TACT that has another pad... Would be even better if we covered it in Gauss weaponry.... Now what would we call such a thing? How about a monolith?
>>
>>1819885
A shame this is a necessity but we can't afford delays and these people were...were causing more harm living where they were, kidnapping and eating others.
>>
>>1819885
>The father wants to eat a feast of human flesh, the mother wants to hear the screams and cries of pain

wow these people were truly deranged
>>
>>1819885
We definitely made the right choice.
>>
>>1819905
Nah, Ziggurat or Teocalli. Monolith is what we should call the up-scaled version of our anti-infantry / anti-air beam turret / tower: the obelisk.

>>1819908
Eh, if that was your favourite food it'd make sense to want it. However I agree the mother was fucked. I did feel a tinge of guilt regarding the kids.
>>
>>1819905
>>1819884

I feel like we are close enough to inventing Volkite Weaponry as well. Which would work tremendously well against the Legion.
>>
>>1819938
That's just a fusion of the heat ray and microwave gun. Which we developed already for the Tankitron.
>>
>>1819938
Probably just scaled down death ray.
>>
>>1819941
>>1819942
I hate being at work all the fucking time. I keep missing shit.
>>
>>1819885
You've started to wear headbuds to these long surgeries to protect your ears from all the screaming. Can't let them lose their voice either, otherwise they won't be able to talk.

You discover more about the Brain and the Lobotomization process than you ever knew before. Already you are testing prototypes for new types of technologies.

You are already developing a device able to remotely locate the centers of memory in the Brain, and ways to disconnect and reconnect them at will. This means you are close to a cure for Bradley's amnesia, but more than this. . .you will be able access and observe peoples memories. You theorize you can make some kind of VR simulation hooked up to a persons brain to observe exactly what they see, what they feel. The applications for interrogation and psychotherapy are immense.

The problem is they all died. The brains that is. Now you're left with 4 raging lobotomites.

You need more brains.

So you get on your UFO to go abduct some.
>>
>>1819948
>Now you're left with 4 raging lobotomites.

Into the public whorehouse they go!
>>
>>1819948
Why can't we let them lose their voice? They would still be trying to speak, which stimulates the talky bits of the brain. Losing voice is caused by physical wear on thee throat.
>>
>>1819955
because they need to tell what they feel
>>
>>1819955
> Losing voice is caused by physical wear on thee throat.
That was the issue, they were screaming themselves hoarse. Nothing a bit of hypo to throat couldn't fix though.

You actually needed to be able to see if they would still make sense or if they started speaking gobbledigoop
>>
>>1819955
Cause we want to know what they think / feel from them.
>>
>>1819960
And why do they feel pain? The brain has no pain sensors. Brain surgery. Is done on conscious people with no anaethetic, other than what is needed to take the skull off.
>>
>>1819968
The electrosimulation mostly. This is different from typical brain surgery which is usually curative rather than vivisection and experimentation.

You might ask Christine about it, last time she was here she said her head became a living lightbulb. She lost the ability to speak and write, though she makes calculations like a computer now.
>>
>>1819980
Yeah, i get brain damage, but not pain. Electrostimulation would cause seizures, but not agonizing pain. Losing functionality is one thing that happens, but not pain from electrodes contacting the grey matter.
>>
>>1819980
And also, why are we cutting up brains? What do we learn from that that we don't learn from MRI's or something? That brains are masses if grey matter?
>>
>>1819937
I would call those Obelisks but i like Ziggurat, though that would probably be a superheavy version of the Monolith.
>>
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>>1819991
The screaming isn't always pain, that mostly happens when you fiddle with the cerebral cortex and different sensations of skin (burning, cold, 'weird', other). Sometimes its just abject terror. Occasionally its because you accidentally nick something that causes them to scream even when they aren't trying to.

>>1820000
New surgical methods and implants that can't be actually tested or trialed via MRI or any sort of scanning.

>>1819948
The first four were probably the most intense for you. By the 12th, it began to feel routine.

There was a lot of trial and error, more than a few cranial explosions, melt downs, and other stuff. You captured 42 subjects, but ended up with 34 lobotomites at the end.

>Research Results:
+34 Lobotomites
-Memory Interface Implant - Allows you to restore lost memories to individuals, access their memories for download and view in VR, or modify them at will. Requires surgical access. You believe you can cure Dr. Bradley's amnesia. This will also serve as a cure to Alzheimers and Dementia
-Emotional Control Chip - You have discovered how to make emotional control chips, like the one you use on Diana
-Brain to Lobotomite restoration - You have figured out how to put brains back into lobotomites. As long as the Brain and Tesla Coil is intact. It does not even have to be the same person, or the same gender.
-Brain Cybernetification - By physically mapping out the brain you have discovered how to cybernetically modify it to give it improved processing speed, increasing intelligence and thinking speed
-Curative Implants - You have devised implants to help treat many brain based illnesses and use the brain to help treat other illnesses, for example, using Diana's cure for cancer to reverse the damage caused by tumors
-Better Chips! You can imagine newer and better chips designed to control everything from behavior, to sensation, to function. Everything from total sensory deprivation to making someone feel everything twice as acutely

Studying how Tesla Coils work further, you realize with an additional research action you can alter it in such a way that rather than relying on high-penetrating waves which could theoretically be blocked, you could devise a system that works on the teleportation principle to transmit data to a fro a miniature portal system.

You're going to need another action for this to work out any kinks
>>
>>1820028
Anything on having one brain being able to switch between new tesla coils?

I/E Clone a braindead clone, hook the tesla coils up to one of our brain in a jars? Without actually putting the brain in the clone.
>>
>>1820028
Did we figure out a way to connect a brain to different body through tesla coils?
The idea to make think tank sane again by this method.

>-Brain Cybernetification
>-Better Chips!

so did we apply these upgrades already or do we need to spend action for this?
>>
>>1820028
All of the first part of trial and error can be done painlessly, ice for cold, warm water for hot. Nothing that would provoke screams, and would be able to be done with EEGs and FMRIs, if it is just measuring what parts of the brain respond to what. Hell do it on a dog. The general parts are all the same. Also how is the autodoc randomly nicking things and how does that cause screams. It would be an aneurism if anything and those are painless.

Implants to the brain would also be painless, and mostly not ens up with destroyed brains.

Why is our neuroresearch 19th century teir "poke it with a stick and see what happens" EEGs have existed since the late 1800s.
>>
>>1820028
So what is the thought on trying to make restore the lobotomites?

If it is absolutely impossible to bring them back, maybe make heavily cyberize and augment their brains to make a totally new person with implanted memories? They should know that they just came to life though and the memories are there to give them lifetime of experience.


Also, does this mean we can fix Super mutants brains to get their memories and intellect back?
>>
>>1820028
>-Memory Interface Implant - Allows you to restore lost memories to individuals, access their memories for download and view in VR, or modify them at will. Requires surgical access. You believe you can cure Dr. Bradley's amnesia. This will also serve as a cure to Alzheimer's and Dementia
Useful.

-Emotional Control Chip - You have discovered how to make emotional control chips, like the one you use on Diana
Useful but questionable morals (Nerve stapling anyone?).

-Brain to Lobotomite restoration - You have figured out how to put brains back into lobotomites. As long as the Brain and Tesla Coil is intact. It does not even have to be the same person, or the same gender.
Well that is brilliant. Time to restore the Think-tank and shit.

-Brain Cybernetification - By physically mapping out the brain you have discovered how to cybernetically modify it to give it improved processing speed, increasing intelligence and thinking speed
Above the augments we currently have? Cause if so fucking amazing.

-Curative Implants - You have devised implants to help treat many brain based illnesses and use the brain to help treat other illnesses, for example, using Diana's cure for cancer to reverse the damage caused by tumours
Almighty fuck yes.

-Better Chips! You can imagine newer and better chips designed to control everything from behaviour, to sensation, to function. Everything from total sensory deprivation to making someone feel everything twice as acutely
Better chips in general? We can make better versions of our current implants with this alone!

>Studying how Tesla Coils work further, you realise with an additional research action you can alter it in such a way that rather than relying on high-penetrating waves which could theoretically be blocked, you could devise a system that works on the teleportation principle to transmit data to a fro a miniature portal system.
Fucking amazing.

>You're going to need another action for this to work out any kinks
Eh, that's fair enough. This is a fuck ton of data. By that do you mean we need more brains? Cause we can get more if that is the problem.


>>1820044
Well it's probably because Fallout is Fallout and this is the morally questionable option, even if you do raise a good point.

It could also be said to be because of just how precise the augments and such we want to make need to be.
>>
>>1820040
>>1820040
You have actually made an important discovery regarding brain removal and lobotomization.

There are two type of Brain Removal. "Full" brain removal, and "Lobotomite" brain removal.

Full brain removal takes the whole brain, all of it, into the jar. This is how it is done for such things as Cyberdogs, Robobrains (like the Think Tank), or the ZAX's. It maintains their full consciousness in the unit.

Lobotomite brain removal involves leaving behind a small piece of the brain and spinal cord, just the parts necessary for certain bodily control functions. According to your brain, "the parts that govern your overwhelming instincts of 'right' and 'wrong' which all too often over ride my logical inputs. How many times have we gone on a dangerous adventure that causes us no end of pain simply because you were bored?)

If you wish to switch detached brains between bodies, you will need to surgically remove and replant the litttle bit of the brain and tesla coil into the other lobotomite.

Unless you place the lobotomite in cryo-storage or replace the removed bit of brain with another bit of brain (or full brain) the lobotomite skinvelope will die.

>>1820044
>Borous
"You are speaking NONSENSE Dr. Mobius! Surely there is no better and more scientifi method of researching than POKING and PRODDING things with sharp, often electrified, sticks!"
>>
>>1820057
Yeah, but this isn't science its just sadism.

Why are they terrified? Do we have no bedside manner? If we had an mri, a pin, some ice cubes and cup of warm water we can find the memory center, temperature center and pain centers. Imagination and motor centers too. Just ask them to imagine something and wave their arms around.
>>
>>1820060
>you will need to surgically remove and replant the litttle bit of the brain and tesla coil into the other lobotomite.

what if it doesn't exist anymore? Can we do a research to find a way to regenerate those parts for the detached brains which lost them?

I guess this is the reason why the think tank has no morals. We need to find a way to restore those bits, perhaps through developing an implant which replicates those funtions
>>
>>1820060
So we do it because Boros says so? We never let Boros do anything because he's insane, without empathy, and bad at science. He just does sciency biology experiments.
>>
>>1820060
>If you wish to switch detached brains between bodies, you will need to surgically remove and replant the litttle bit of the brain and tesla coil into the other lobotomite.
This would essentially let them control both Similar to how the courier and his brain function together?

This is also a problem for our tact officer (that part still exists in her original body) is there a way we can regenerate that part / replace it with a chip?
>>
>>1820068
>Why are they terrified?
Usually the same reasons as Diana, existential crises.

Making them think and feel things they know they shouldn't be thinking, which causes them to be unsure whats real and whats not. They can try to scream in their head, shut their eyes, but it doesn't make the thoughts and feelings go away. Mostly it happens when you fiddle with the emotional and decision making centers, where they might say fall in madly in love with a chair, or fear the sensation of seeing, or feel sexually attracted to their toenail.

Logic breaks down, true and artificial emotions become indestinguishable, the self becomes unrecognizable. Your identity and consciousness becomes a marooned sailor tossed around in the storm of your own mind unable to breathe

>>1820074
>>1820077
Unfortunately, all records and evidence seem to indicate if that particular part of the brain is destroyed or burned it may not ever be possible to regenerate it back to the way it was. It could be regrown perhaps, but the result might not be the very same person.

>>1820077
>This would essentially let them control both Similar to how the courier and his brain function together?
Yup
>>
>>1820105
That only happens during loyalty chip testing. Everything else doesn't do anything of the sort, unless we do bad science like Boros wants. He's not even a neurologist, and he thinks electrifying a brain gets useful data?

What does lighting up a brain teach us? Other than a) it causes permanent damage, and b) causes a grand mal seizure.
>>
>>1820105
>Unfortunately, all records and evidence seem to indicate if that particular part of the brain is destroyed or burned it may not ever be possible to regenerate it back to the way it was. It could be regrown perhaps, but the result might not be the very same person.


what if we try to replace that part with an implant?

what if we keep throwing more research at it?
>>
>>1820105
Also, that's just giving people a major case of scizophrenia. That wouldn't cause terror, but confusion. If they don't know what's real. They wouldn't start wailing like banshees.
>>
>>1820113
>What does lighting up a brain teach us?
You hate to say it, but, a lot.

Christines improved ability to do math for example, was done without the use of implants by purely altering the electrochemical processes of certain parts of her brain

Also due to the number of people and complexity of the procedure, you aren't really able to perform the operation on everyone. You're very reliant on your other scientific associates, especially since you yourself spend much of your time flying hither and thither to gather more brains.

>>1820116
Since the entire thing seems to be a crapshoot. Your best bet would be to find the person with the destroyed bit and perform trial and error.

You believe the Think Tank have not lost that part of their brain however, but it might not be active or as active without a body.
>>
>>1820135
>Since the entire thing seems to be a crapshoot. Your best bet would be to find the person with the destroyed bit and perform trial and error.

So any of our lobotimites, or rescue operation on our Tact Lieutenant?
>>
>>1820145
>rescue operation on our Tact Lieutenant?
Let's see if we can't get her without doing that first.
>>
>>1820135
But that would be low level voltage stimulation. Which is a real thing. But the voltages and amperages are miniacule. It would be hardly noticable to someone it ia happening to, as again, the brain feels no pain.
>>
>>1820147
Im willing to give it a shot, but I don't see it working.
>>
>>1820145
If it was the Lietenants body with the tesla coil and bit of brain, then to get her back that would be your bet.

Her Tesla Coil and bit of brain is probably not entirely destroyed, otherwise she'd be dead. There might be some repairable damage. Or it might not be repairable. Without her actually here to look inside, you won't know
>>
>>1820148
>the brain feels no pain.
You can always tell that to Christine if you want.
>>
>>1820152
Would experimenting on our Lobotimites (unsavory as it may be) Also help with us learning more about that part? I'm willing to throw research at it if other anons are.

Or do you think it would be easier entirely to just design a new set of tesla coils that can function without having a part of the brain inside of the host?

I/E Whole brains in jar remote driving the skinvelope?
>>
>>1820159
Except that is literally how the brain works.
http://www.brainfacts.org/about-neuroscience/ask-an-expert/articles/2014/if-the-brain-cant-feel-pain-why-do-i-get-headaches/

Her pain was general pain from being electocuted and having her brain cracked open like an egg.

Brain surgery is painless. There are videos of people playing guitars with the top of their skull removed and surgeons going to work.
>>
>>1820171
*skull
Her skull cracked open.

Also the seizure from being electrocuted.
>>
>>1820171
>Her pain was general pain from being electocuted and having her brain cracked open like an egg.
Which is accurate for what's being done here.

>There are videos of people playing guitars with the top of their skull removed and surgeons going to work.
Naturally. Of course, again, those are curative surgeries rather than experimental.

>>1820170
>Or do you think it would be easier entirely to just design a new set of tesla coils that can function without having a part of the brain inside of the host?
That may not be possible actually. More research is required.
>>
>>1820182
Would experimenting on our Lobotimites (unsavory as it may be) Also help with us learning more about that part? I'm willing to throw research at it if other anons are.
>>
>>1820184
Your current stock of lobotomites don't have their Brains for it to work. Its only going to be feasible if the Brain is intact.

The lobotomites you have are gonna be lobotomites forever really. Unless you, for example, find a way to make synthetic biomechanical brains.

But BigMT doesn't specialize in synthetic brains, only augmented ones, according to Dr. Klein "WE LEFT THAT SORT OF WORK TO THE IMBECILES BOULDER CITY AND THE INSTITUTE. SYNTHETIC CELLULAR STRUCTURES, WHAT A WASTE OF TIME"
>>
>>1820171
What the fuck are you trying to prove? Holy fucking shit just stop your whining.

QM just added some flavour text and you're nitpicking it to hell and back.

Did you just want the update to go "you did brain vivisection and now you gained these results"

You know why they screamed? Because they were terrified out of their fucking minds. Because we tested all variety of things. We did things like burning their body with blowtorch but made them feel like they just had a nice meal. We also did things like rubbing nice silk cloth on their body which made them feel like they were skinned alive.

Think of any combination of weird shit and we probably did it.
>>
>>1820184
I am all for it.
Anything to get think tank normal again and perhaps turn lobotomites into citizens with new memories.

>>1820192
Why can't we try to augment the parts which they are missing? The sentient people we gain in result will probably not be the same people they were before but we would essentially get free citizens.
>>
>>1820193
Perhaps not so extreme as using torches as that but effectievely yes.

>You
[What do you feel when I touch your palm]

>Subject
"I CAN TASTE PURPLE! IT TASTES LIKE PURPLE!"

>You
[Huh, must be mixing signals between the visual cortex and the taste receptors.]
>>
>>1820182
Then we can numb that. Local anaethetic is a thing. So no pain from the skull if done right.

As for all the rest of the screaming, there is no reason for it ever. Parts of the brain can be measured without any extrusion, electrodes should be using extremely low voltages. Implants would not end up with people losing grip on reality, which also wouldn't cause screaming.
Also , how did they all end up as lobotomites. What destroyed the brains? A fun experiment to see how many kilovolts it takes before the brain boils?
>>
>>1820192
Dr Klein, is their an underground facillity inside Boulder city? If they are hacks, perhaps its time to look over their research and re negotiate their funding.

(they still think we work for the old us government right?)
>>
>>1820198
>Why can't we try to augment the parts which they are missing?
You can certainly.

All you need is:
-The intact Brain
-The (somewhat) intact part of the lobotomite's brain. not sure how much but if they are alive its a good sign
-A willingness to keep trying until it works, or to accept that the old person might not return
>>
>>1820203
The facility in Boulder city would be quite useful but it's region is heavily irradiated. Making any sorts of diplomatic or exploratory missions there slightly more expensive.

I can't remember what they were researching but I swear it was something useful...
>>
>>1820203
>Klein
"UNDERGROUND? BAH.

THEY BUILT A DOME TO COVER THEIR SCIENTIFIC 'CITY OF THE FUTURE'. I AM 110% CERTAIN THAT THEY COPIED THE IDEA FROM US!"

>Brain
"Boulder city, wait a minute isn't that north of Denver?
>>
>>1820207
>-A willingness to keep trying until it works, or to accept that the old person might not return
>the old person

While it would be very nice to get the old person back, that is not the most important for me. I'd like to turn them into normal human beings, doesn't matter if they don't get their old memories and character back.

I don't think you've answered if with these new finding we can help all of the super mutants to get their memories and intellect back.
Oh, and can we try to cure Night kin of their mental disorders too?
>>
>>1820210
Those bastards, how dare they copy the brilliance of the Think Tank. What meager inferior technology were they studying?
>>
>>1820193
Terror disrupts brain measurements. If we were scientists we would want them calm and relaxed to avoid interference.

And unconscious people still feel thing. Put them under and we can still test if we've been crossing wires so to speak. If the cloth causes the pain center to light up in an MRI, then we know weve messed with the sense of feel.

I just want to know why we did things needlessly brutal and sadistically.
>>
>>1820210
Aye that's it!

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Boulder_Dome

They have access to copies of the New Plague virus. A thing of true nightmarish potential in Biowarfare and we, thanks to Diana, have the cure.
>>
GTG. Here's the turn update.

You complete the crane and built more repair-bots, though more are needed but also other robots by the ZAX so you can toss him your passive action unless you want something else

https://pastebin.com/jAXYFRB1
Relevant Stats:
>>>>>>Materials: Scrap Metal (Below Average) Fissile (Below Average)
Plant Material (Large)

You also have a large shipment of Junk AA rockets now.

Your food has doubled and water has increased! Nobody knows what to do with all the extra Salient. Some suggest turning into fuel and munitions, others to store it for a rainy day.

News of new lobotomites has caused and increase number of visits to the Lobotomite den to "try out the fresh meat". Some of the followers seem a little depressed and stressed, this seems to be salt on the wound.

Relevant Stats:

4 Action Cap.

Available Actions: Civilian, Construction, Military, Research, ZAX, Hero
+Robotic Research does not count toward cap.
+Biological Research does not count toward cap
>>>>>Turn: 117
>>
>>1820217
>I don't think you've answered if with these new finding we can help all of the super mutants to get their memories and intellect back.
You can, needs an action.

>Oh, and can we try to cure Night kin of their mental disorders too?
Yes!

>>1820223
>I just want to know why we did things needlessly brutal and sadistically.
Needlessly? No.

But was it still brutal? Very. Very much so.
>>
>>1820234
But it was needless. Nothing was done that could not have been done with more humane methods.
>>
>>1820223
Because we need them to talk and answer our questions?

You might see on MRI that their pleasure spots lighted up because we kicked their shin but what kind of pleasure did they feel? Pleasure of finishing a task, of kissing a loved one, of eating a good meal. That is what they can answer us
>>
>>1820236
If you wanted the humane path, it would have taken longer. Actually you wouldn't have bothered with this program at all.

You did what would provide the most expedient and immediate results.
>>
>>1820231
did you forget the spend time talking/courting Diana?

or did you just leave it at that interaction we had when she made new plants for us?
>>
>>1820250
I didn't forget

>>1819280
>>
>>1820242
Except we did it through the most painful methods possible it seems. There is no reason for them to be screaming as much as they are unless we're intentionally causing as much pain as possible.
>>
>>1820231

>Hero
-Talk to Marcus and Keene and then if we get their blessing perform brain surgeries on Supes to get their memories and intelligence back and fix their mental disorders.
-Spend free time with our wives and family (doesn't has to be some big update, OP)


>Civ
>Con
>Zax
Continue on the project to get 2nd construction action in the most efficient way. If it means to gather resources, do it. If it means we need to build a new solar powerplant, do it. If we need to build more robots, do it.

>Reserch
Continue the neuro research. Focus on the new and improved tesla coils

>Robotic research
Continue on tunneler robots

>Bio research
Talk to Diana, tell her and show her the situation in Big Mt, ask her to develop a plan to greenify this region.

>Passive robots
Give it to ZAX
>>
>>1820242
If they were screaming so much that they needed to constantly have their throught healed, they souldn't be telling us anything. Pain and terror are just a small part of the brain, so should only come up in testing rarely. Not all the time. It's like doing chemistry, but were always adding sulphuric acid to it. It only should be there when it is needed.
>>
>>1820276
I kind of want the hero action to go to the commomwealth, and maybe build up the satellites if Diana's satellite is not strong enough.
>>
>>1820288
Isn't commonwealth beyond the reach of our craft?

what do you mean build satellite? You want the courier to build a satellite on his own? I doubt we can do that without a construction action.
>>
>>1820231
>Hero
Go the Commonwealth

>Civ
>Zax
Continue on the project to get 2nd construction action in the most efficient way. If it means to gather resources, do it. If it means we need to build a new solar powerplant, do it. If we need to build more robots, do it.

>Con
Build a long range satellite.

>Research
Long range satellites

>Robotic research
Continue on tunneler robots

>Bio research
Talk to Diana, tell her and show her the situation in Big Mt, ask her to develop a plan to greenify this region.

>Passive robots
Give it to ZAX
>>
>>1820276
I'd prefer if we spent our biological research trying to do something a bit more useful.


For example: can she develop / tell us of better methods of education, seeing as she did that for the Tribals for 200 years? During that time she must've learned something useful.

Alternatively, we could set her to the task of creating a universal defoliant. So we can clear out Texas from that fucking horrifying plant monster shit when we get to it.

Or, we could task her with designing better robots for farming since she has to have had some ideas in the 200 years she has had in isolation maintaining Eden and shit.

Or, we could ask her to develop improved medicines and methods or give us samples of various medicinal plants to grow and shit. She's been treating wounds in various animal species and humans for 200 years and should've learned one or two useful tricks across species.

Or, we could ask her to start research into gene-modding. With a focus on intelligence boosting, retention of information, "down time" (e.g how many hours of sleep / relaxation a person needs biologically) and possibly some enhancements in terms of removing genetics defects.

Or, we could ask her to look into reducing the impact of augments on the body. Attempting to lower the endurance threshold for an implant, meaning more of our population can have more implants, meaning our soldiers and scientists can be smarter / stronger / faster.
>>
>>1820293
>Isn't commonwealth beyond the reach of our craft?
It shouldn't be, it just anons want to stay in touch with BigMT when we go the commonwealth.

By build satellite, I mean to build using a construction action.
>>
>>1820302
>For example: can she develop / tell us of better methods of education, seeing as she did that for the Tribals for 200 years? During that time she must've learned something useful.

>Or, we could task her with designing better robots for farming since she has to have had some ideas in the 200 years she has had in isolation maintaining Eden and shit.

>Or, we could ask her to start research into gene-modding. With a focus on intelligence boosting, retention of information, "down time" (e.g how many hours of sleep / relaxation a person needs biologically) and possibly some enhancements in terms of removing genetics defects.

>Or, we could ask her to look into reducing the impact of augments on the body. Attempting to lower the endurance threshold for an implant, meaning more of our population can have more implants, meaning our soldiers and scientists can be smarter / stronger / faster.

Yeah, these are good actually. Hey, maybe she can even develop something similar to sleeptron 3000?

Maybe I should have added to my idea that she also has to tackle the water problem.
>>
>>1820231
>Hero
Put the spy satellite in orbit and use it on the military base to id the command center
Spend time with family.

>Civ
>Zax
Continue on the project to get 2nd construction action in the most efficient way. If it means to gather resources, do it. If it means we need to build a new solar powerplant, do it. If we need to build more robots, do it.

>Con
Build the spy satellite

>Research
Super mutant brain help- memories and schizophrenia cure among other things.

>Robotic research
Continue on tunneler robots

>Bio research
Talk to Diana, tell her and show her the situation in Big Mt, ask her to develop a plan to greenify this region.

>Passive robots
Give it to ZAX
>>
>>1820317
To be frank if we want to tackle the water problem, which we don't really have anymore (we can reduce the size of our farms considering our massive surplus and save water), we'd be better off shifting population to new places and expanding or building the underground farms (which would need more power) than trying to genetics a solution any further.

We've discussed the where's, the who's, the how's, the why's, the if's and the but's and this is clearly the when to do it since it is needed even ignoring the water problems.
>>
>>1820328

Sounds good.

>>1820332
what, do you want to keep the population of our capital under 400 people? Our water problem is no where resolved.
>>
>>1820340
We can move people to newberry if needed. Its pretty empty, but has Oddball's old infrastructure.
>>
>>1820340
>what, do you want to keep the population of our capital under 400 people?
For now? Aye. No reason to concentrate our population here when we could establish colonies elsewhere and get more resources and shit.

>Our water problem is no where resolved.
Our food income doubled here >>1819190 with only a small increase in water consumption. If we reduce that food surplus, we get more water free so we can support a population increase with our current water supply without any further actions. This is before mentioning the potential to create the underground farms.

>>1820350
We've shifted the surplus water from there by pipeline to New Washington. So that won't help.
>>
>>1820361
Did we? Damn.

We can build a water filter plant to draw from the unerground river.
>>
>>1820364
We did that too.
>>
>>1820374
Did we?

Well short of making a weather machine, i don't see us getting more water here. Most water is agricultural use, not personal.

Underground farms are still incomplete. I know that.
>>
>>1820328
Could have long range satellites, and us going to the Commonwealth, but at least it has spy satellites.

Supporting
>>
>>1820379
I know and I've mentioned the underground farms.


The point I am making is that moving people to new colonies is cheaper, since they can establish farms in the area around their homes without needing to put them underground and thus we can focus our efforts on making their houses / industry / defences.
>>
>>1820385
I don't want to go to the Commonwealth without an air ship, or we would be outgunned by the Prydwyn and the BOS. If it's just us, working side by side with the minutemen and the SS, we're going to get wrecked.
>>
>>1820395
Well we need to get that airship build, but first we need power plants, 2nd con action and other things.

>>1820328
>>1820340
>>1820385
This has three votes OP >>1820242
>>
Rolled 69 (1d100)

>>1820405
Yup. Which is why I want that cold fusion tech.

>>1820405
Then lets roll
>>
>>1820395
We're technically allies of the BOS. We'd be fine. Plus they couldn't give two shits so long as you aren't being a problem and supply some food.


Also next turn (as in the one after this) we need to use our Hero action to teleport to NV and see where the NCR front-line has advanced to while using our researches to develop some new weapons of war and shit.

I'd like to be getting stuck into the Legion two turns at most after we've gotten the second construction action.
>>
Rolled 95 (1d100)

>>1820410
>69
Lewd roll
>>
Rolled 30 (1d100)

Just rolling for what's supported and booty
>>
>>1820413
We would have a spy satellite for that. Should be simple enough just to see the front lines from orbit.
>>
>>1820427
I doubt it will be that easy but I'd like to be on the ground so we can see how easily the NCR / Legion are holding the line and possibly do some sabotage and shit.
>>
>>1820430
But next turn I want to send the apc in under the base defenses so we can disable the command center from inside. Drill up from the basement, find the computer.
>>
>>1820427
The rolls we made, the highest being 95 would make this turn into a good one.

Should we let ZAX use fissile to build all the things he needs? Last time we did it, it turned out well, and I like to add on with the good roll.
>>
>>1820434
True but with the current prototype we need a fairly precise idea of the location in order to pilot it there unless we do it as the courier on the fly.

I mean, if we brought the Forecaster with us we might be able to foresight our way to it.

>>1820440
Agreed. We've got a surplus of Fissile and getting this ASAP is important.
>>
>>1820440
I am all for this
>>
>>1820447
Which is why i wanted to put the spy satellite up. Should get ust the exact location of the command center. We can also use the echo boy tech to detect foundations.

The spy satellite is one of our own invention and incorporates alien parts. It should have good clarity.
>>
>>1820458
The Divide has a constant dust cloud over it. Ain't gonna be seeing shit. As to the Echo boy, the current one we have is equipped with that (>>1819167) and it still needs to be pre-programmed to reach a destination.


As to the spy sat, it ain't gonna tell us anywhere near as much as a man on the ground. It won't let us see the faces of the men or the state of their supply dumps.
>>
>>1820474
We can get general ideas of the front, how it has moved, and such.

As for seeing into the divide, we will have to see. We did get a 95, and the divide does have its clear days.
>>
>>1820488
Clear days means that there aren't rad-dust storms that strip flesh. Not that the sky's are clear.
>>
Some ideas im thinking of while at work. What do Anons think?

Lobotomites -
Im thinking we should discontinue the whorehouse. I cant be the only one who disagrees with it.

In its place, im thinking we use our stockpile of Lobotomites for research. We can learn how to improve upon the tesla coils, we can use them for experiments on new Augments /cybernetics.we can use them for FEV research, We may even be able to servitor them to perform more useful functions (but i doubt a servitor will ever be as useful as a robot

Project Renewal (hit me with a better name, this ones terrible)
On our travels to find badies for brain experimentation. We leave a few as a normal brain in a jar /Lobotomite. Combo. We use those to experiment on brain stem regeneration, new tesla coils, and potential brain jar swapping between them. We could also rescue /negotiate for the release of our officer but that may cause problems between us and the mla (which im fine with but other anons probably not so much)

Power
Im thinking for the short term, we build roads through out our territory and line them solar panel systems.

That or we take over the nase in the divide like another anon suggested.

Ill type up more if the there is interest.
>>
>>1820517
Very interested, please do continue.

I do completely agree on the whorehouse and I really don't care if we worsen relations with the MLA, we can take anything they throw at us
>>
>>1820517
You do realize the lobmitate thing was permitted via vote by the people right and we regulated? Whore houses are a thing that will happen no matter what. Even in 'modern times' they exist. Regulate stuff don't close it down because you dislike it
>>
>>1820530
I agree. Relations are breaking down anyways. No point clinging on it.
>>
>>1820517
>Im thinking we should discontinue the whorehouse. I cant be the only one who disagrees with it.
It was put in place by popular demand and the benefits now are the same as back then. Getting rid of it would almost certainly prove unpopular and problematic.

>In its place, im thinking we use our stockpile of Lobotomites for research.
Mate I'd point out we don't use them for most brain research, as they are the creation of brain research as a side-effect.

Plus, we can certainly afford to make a lot more of them for your proposed uses like the cybernetics.

>Project Renewal (hit me with a better name, this ones terrible)
God no, this entire thing seems like a waste of resources compared to relying on combat captures from the Legion although that is not to say we can't rely on it when we encounter such people on our missions.

>We could also rescue /negotiate for the release of our officer but that may cause problems between us and the mla (which im fine with but other anons probably not so much)
There is a time for that and it is after we've taken over the Legion and gotten much, much stronger.

>Im thinking for the short term, we build roads through out our territory and line them solar panel systems.
That is incredibly inefficient compared to just making another solar power farm. Seeing as it works more effectively.

>>1820530
We really can't afford war with the MLA right now. This has been explained repeatedly before. That war with them might prove to be our downfall and if not that it would delay our plans and consume resources needed elsewhere.
>>
>>1820531
Im awarr of this. I support whorehouses with actual people who want to be whores.

I personally dont support whorehouses full of animal Lobotomites. That's my opinion.
>>
>>1820538
Relations ain't breaking down that badly. They just don't want us potentially declaring war while their forces are deep in the NCR and shit.

It's fair enough but I can think of a way around the problem like OP mentioned: we can establish Long range communications with Niner via a encoded radio and that'll solve the problem.
>>
>>1820539
I forgot about the vote truth be told. Yes it will be costly but i do believe we can win in the end, especially if we co-ordinate with the NCR and BOS.

That being said it is still far too early for war, we dont have a tenth of the military needed yet
>>
>>1820543
So you'd rather poor people forced into whorring around then mindless animals? Or people looking for extra spending cash mate ?
>>
>>1820550
Forced how? Everyone gets a living wage by default. If anyone is whoring it is by choice, not desperation.
>>
>>1820550
Qm has mentioned before that their already people who whore because they want to. Nobody forces them to. Ill look up his post so i can quote it to you.

Im merely proposing we take the Lobotomites and put them towards a more useful direction.
>>
>>1820543
Except historically speaking almost no one wants to be a whore. We've had this entire argument before and it was agreed that the benefits of this in terms of civil stability, reduced crime rate, popularity and such were worth any sorts of moral outrage but that we'd put it to a popular vote to establish if our people wanted it.

They did, it's a thing now. Leave it be and focus on having us actually doing productive shit rather than getting rid of shit you consider morally outrageous but is popular in our nation and directly benefits us (seriously we should get round to monetising that place). We've got more important things to consider than this.

>>1820549
>I forgot about the vote truth be told.
Eh, it's fine.

>Yes it will be costly but i do believe we can win in the end, especially if we co-ordinate with the NCR and BOS.
Hell no. It'd fuck us so far up the ass.

>That being said it is still far too early for war, we dont have a tenth of the military needed yet
More like a hundredth. Niner is focusing his military in the Divide remember? Or did we convince him to shift elsewhere...

Main point is that it would consume resources and turns we can't spare since the NCR, BOS and Elijah would continue to advance.
>>
>>1820571
If anons dont want to change it thats fime. Im but 1 vote. But im not going to forget it, especially when the Lobotomites can be used for more important things. I/e any facet of research that requires a test subject.
>>
>>1820571

The whore house was never that popular. It was barely more than 34 percent of the votes. I think we can get rid of it without too much fuss, especially after the family message we put in our manifesto.
He did need a driller and we do have the very early prototype we can give him. The walking drill thing. They can handle bracing the walls and whatever on their journey to the trees.
>>
>>1820560
>Im merely proposing we take the Lobotomites and put them towards a more useful direction.
Except it isn't much more useful.

I mean you want to test the new coils using them but as far as I am aware we don't need them to do that. You want to use them to test new augments and cybernetics but that can be done and they can still work in the Brothel. Not to mention the potential to use our farmers / low education population for that.

As to FEV? A lobo is missing tonnes of internal organisms so they'd be less useful for testing purposes and without their brain we can't check if their consciousness / intelligence is damaged.

As to servitors? Possibly but honestly robots are better like you said. They work longer, harder and cost less to maintain. Not to mention being less susceptible to environmental effects like cold, heat, radiation and so on.
>>
>>1820571
I support you on the whorehouse, it stays. But lets not add any to it? More concerned about the followers thoughts than anything else.

>Hell no. It'd fuck us so far up the ass.
Not sure I agree 100% but it would be too costly that is for damn sure.

I would not want to make a move until we have fortified home base and built a Ziggurat(or ten) with full supporting divisions
>>
>>1820588
Well it depends on how hard we alpha strike.

An APC loaded with a fuel air bomb that drills down into their main staging area?

Boom. Everyone is on fire, the tunnels have no oxygen, and a massive super heated pressure wave rips through the rest of the tunnels.
>>
>>1820576
True but we can easily get more Lobo's as we fight the Legion and turn their army into TACTs and ZAX's and such by replicating whatever happened to the TACT's body. Not to mention the possibility of repeating this research action again to develop our understanding further and, as you mentioned, test implants and such.

>>1820580
>The whore house was never that popular. It was barely more than 34 percent of the votes.
With a third of the population not participating in the vote, so it shifts more towards 51 / 52 % of the (active) voting body. Not to mention that a fair few of those who didn't take part will have been convinced to try it by those that did and shit. Popularity has probably improved over time but I admit that the increasing number of families may have reduced popularity but the benefit rises again with our next generation of teenagers approaching adulthood. Since it reduces the risk of...unprepared for child-raising and such.

>I think we can get rid of it without too much fuss, especially after the family message we put in our manifesto.
What family messages? We said "fuck it: you do you, all we want is some kids, okay?" and left it for them to decide.

>He did need a driller and we do have the very early prototype we can give him. The walking drill thing. They can handle bracing the walls and whatever on their journey to the trees.
True but that requires we can meet him and they seemingly won't give us a damn fair deal so we are kinda fucked unless we accept their deal or get a message through some other way.

>>1820588
>I support you on the whorehouse, it stays. But lets not add any to it? More concerned about the followers thoughts than anything else.
Eh, just point out to them it was more efficent than shooting them and that they were gone by the end anyway. No point wasting good lobo's and it's not like they couldn't have expected this. What did they think we'd do? Release them into the wild to frolic and fuck each-other?

>Not sure I agree 100% but it would be too costly that is for damn sure.
It would delay expansion, consume military resources and potentially damage industry.

>I would not want to make a move until we have fortified home base and built a Ziggurat(or ten) with full supporting divisions
Agreed. Once we have NV / the Legion under our foot, we might consider it.

>>1820599
Eh, I doubt it would work. Just based off of the universe and shit they'd probably have built concealed air breaks / tunnels to the surface that would prevent it spreading too far.

Plus their main staging area is the entire Divide city and their network under it. They've got exits everywhere to get out and get air in so that wouldn't be too effective.
>>
>>1820599
This reminds me of Starship Troopers.
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>>1820623
The only good MLA is a dead MLA.
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>>1820585

It sounds like we are already going to. Be abducting people for more neurological research. Abducting just a little extra for tesla coio research doesn't seem like that much greater of a sin.

Any new coils we make in its testing stages (where anything dangerous happens) is better to use on a Lobotomite than a person.

Augmentation /cybernetics in its testing stages is better on a Lobotomite than a person. Why would you use our farmer and low education as experiment candidates over a Lobotomite? That strikes me as unnecessary.

Fev, sure Lobotomites are missing internal organs, but with a trip to an autodoc they won't be. Pull out the internal systems and replace them with cloned organics and you have a fully functional test subject outside of looking towards our population /or kidnapping.

Better organs, any and all bio organic augmentation. Internal Fev weapons like unitys wolverine claws. We take all of our horrible research that turns us into a horrible person, and apply it to a Lobotomite instead of a person.

The MLA even had the idea of turning Lobotomites into an unstoppable suicide force. If were desperate, with enough cybernetics, I could see us doing the same thing if not much better.

It doesn't make it any better on our morals, but its easier to find the candidates.
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>>1820621
>What did they think we'd do? Release them into the wild to frolic and fuck each-other?

Exactly. We could use them for augment testing.

>It would delay expansion, consume military resources and potentially damage industry.
Without a doubt.

>Agreed. Once we have NV / the Legion under our foot, we might consider it.

It seems we have come to an agreement
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>>1820635
I cant spell on my phone for shit apparently.
>>
>>1820635
>It sounds like we are already going to. Be abducting people for more neurological research. Abducting just a little extra for tesla coio research doesn't seem like that much greater of a sin.
True but I don't know if we need to kidnap more is the thing.

>Any new coils we make in its testing stages (where anything dangerous happens) is better to use on a Lobotomite than a person.
I suppose but it shouldn't be too dangerous. It's just changing it from one transmission form to another.

>Augmentation /cybernetics in its testing stages is better on a Lobotomite than a person. Why would you use our farmer and low education as experiment candidates over a Lobotomite? That strikes me as unnecessary.
I doubt it will come out of our labs in such a state that they'd be in danger of death and shit. Plus, I already stated that they can be used for testing and Brothel labour. As to using our farmers? It presents an additional potential source of income for them if they want it and gets us some intelligent subjects who can respond and shit.

>Fev, sure Lobotomites are missing internal organs, but with a trip to an auto-doc they won't be. Pull out the internal systems and replace them with cloned organics and you have a fully functional test subject outside of looking towards our population /or kidnapping.
I suppose but that requires a source of organs which means having some source which means either a source of humans or a cloning facility that can make good human organs in which case, we can probably just use those directly.

>Better organs, any and all bio organic augmentation. Internal Fev weapons like unity's wolverine claws. We take all of our horrible research that turns us into a horrible person, and apply it to a Lobotomite instead of a person.
Fair enough but I'd point out you weren't specifying what we'd be doing in regards to augments. So I assumed you just meant the endurance enhancer 2.0 and shit.

>The MLA even had the idea of turning Lobotomites into an unstoppable suicide force. If were desperate, with enough cybernetics, I could see us doing the same thing if not much better.
Agreed. The potential to turn the enemy's soldiers against them is quite funny and effective.

>It doesn't make it any better on our morals, but its easier to find the candidates.
True but I am saying that I don't support going out of our way to find more when we will have a good source soon.

>>1820636
>Exactly. We could use them for augment testing.
Yeah, not to mention the potential to make them into giant mech warriors or something...

>Without a doubt.
Yeah. Plus they might pull some dark magic on us.

>It seems we have come to an agreement
It was the general consensus previously when discussed.
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>>1820751
I was under the impression taht the auto doc itself could clone organs, is that incorrect?

You have some decent points.
Fair enough ill table my concerns for now.
>>
Seems like OP is having a long lunch
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>>1820784
>I was under the impression taht the auto doc itself could clone organs, is that incorrect?
God no. It's just a robotic surgeon with a life support system built in.

>You have some decent points.
Thanks man.
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>>1820028
>-Brain Cybernetification - By physically mapping out the brain you have discovered how to cybernetically modify it to give it improved processing speed, increasing intelligence and thinking speed
>-Curative Implants - You have devised implants to help treat many brain based illnesses and use the brain to help treat other illnesses, for example, using Diana's cure for cancer to reverse the damage caused by tumors

Have these been applied to our augmented population already?
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>>1820816
I think we'd need to perform an action for the first one and possibly devise actual treatments for them.

As to the second, we'd need to produce those as well (only our replicated chips are good enough) and we'd need to have population members to expend them on like the Think-tank, the super-mutants, etc.
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>>1820821
Fair fair.

During our next turn we really need to construct the expanded brain Vault and push for society-wide augmentation.

Not to the military level, but high.
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>>1820877
Agreed. We could even see about getting those Tribals in the Nursery to undergo the surgery as well potentially and get a bunch of additional brains we can throw into research and general empire running shit.

Also I disagree with wide-spread augmentation of our population for now. It costs fissile since we need to use that kinda of replication. Once we have the non-fissile replicator? Sure.
>>
Alright so after looking at Autodocs and how they work, i was indeed incorrect. They do not clone body parts.

Question - Do we want to build a new improved autodoc that does so? That could either be an amazing trade item to the people we trust enough to give one to (maybe Joshua's people) as well as incredibly useful to put in our hospital.
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>>1820924
God no, the individual cost relative to need is quite low. Especially given that the only people in our nation who would be at major risk of losing organs or limbs, our soldiers, are equipped with regeneration capabilities. So they'll recover with time.
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>>1820902
One thing people don't seem to have thought about much is that the Tribals at the Nursery probably count as "Prime Humans".

Combine this with cloning technology and further neurological research and we have quite powerful capabilities. Not the least of which would be allowing Unity to develop that cadre of elite shapeshifting infiltrators she promised us if we could get her prime humans. I feel like there were other goldmines promised too.
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>>1821046
Yeah, they can also react with FEV with far lower risks of rejection and negative mutation.

Also, so we don't forget: we need to do an autopsy and then study the augments of the BOS Reavers. Augmented eyes, lungs, inbuilt industrial tools. It'll all be useful.
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>>1821046
Because they aren't. They are normal tribals, like the Sorrows. They just have a nice place to live.
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>>1821101
They came from a vault and were protected by Diana. They are almost certainly the closest we are going to get ignoring the Chinese who we probably can't convince to let us dip into vats of FEV.
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>>1821117
But still not pure. If we wanted pure, we could clone braindead husks, but then let Unity assimilate them. Pure human's without any new minds.
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>>1821124
That ain't how it works. In any sense of the word.


Unity can't improve genetic quality like that and these are essentially the purest humans we will find. Hell they might even be pre-war levels of purity but we'd need to test it first.
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>>1821124
>>1821101
It'll really just take looking to see if they're pure or not. They're all vault-born and have been under Diana's protection since birth, but they have been out and about in the world for a while...but it's been in Diana's little terraformed section of it.

It's a toss-up whether they've been infected by FEV or not.
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>>1821128
No, the DNA bank should have pre war humans. It has everything. Thus we can clone purest humans, but braindead. Put them in Unity, and we have pure humans in Unity.

And stop messing with the Tribal's lives. Just leave them alone. They aren't doing anything to us.
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>>1821141
>No, the DNA bank should have pre war humans. It has everything.
No, it has every animal and plant because it was a ecological preservation facility. The Vault the tribals came from was a separate facility to contain the human component, backed by the Vaults elsewhere in the US.

>Thus we can clone purest humans, but brain-dead. Put them in Unity, and we have pure humans in Unity.
I doubt it will be so simple but if it works out like that, brilliant. Except it runs into the exact same problem as the clone soldiers as they'd be children the moment they wake in their bodies. Which means 18 years at least until we can thrust them into combat if we want to treat them like humans. Less if we just make it law the anyone willing can fight.

>And stop messing with the Tribal's lives. Just leave them alone. They aren't doing anything to us.
Ha! No. I admit I don't particularly care about what they do with their lives but we can make use of them without serious problem and thus should.
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>>1821160
QM said everything, not every plant and animal. It is not unlikely that whoever made these banks included baseline humans.

And the clones won't be children, they would be comatose blank slates, like the reaver clones we made. Unity would then puppet them.

Except you want to what, force them into Unity? no, let them do their thing. There is no reason to go around messing with their them.
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>>1821168

>And stop messing with the Tribal's lives. Just leave them alone. They aren't doing anything to us.

I say we give them the choice to join our nation. Those that wish to do so we educate and put to work just like anyone else. Those that dont we let them be.
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>>1821160
Well with our new neurological implants (and probably a bit of research) we can actually easily download an adult's memories and then imprint it onto a flash-grown clone.

Even better if we do more research and stitch together all sorts of peoples memories to create the perfect personalities for soldiers/researchers/what-have-you and just download those into clones as needed. Though obviously this approach is better suited for certain areas of endeavor than others (researchers in particular probably need to be non-standardized, dissension and differing viewpoints being necessary for the proper operation of the scientific method and all).
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>>1821168
>QM said everything, not every plant and animal. It is not unlikely that whoever made these banks included baseline humans.
Not unlikely but not certain by any measure.

>And the clones won't be children, they would be comatose blank slates, like the reaver clones we made. Unity would then puppet them.
Except that is my point. Once Unity takes over them a new sentience would form in it's brain and you'd have made a child. Which you'd be intending to use in combat roles within a few years of birth at most.

As to the Reaver clones, they were meant to come out dead effectively so it's not like you are giving a great example.

>Except you want to what, force them into Unity? no, let them do their thing.
Nope. I don't trust Unity as a whole.

My point is we can de-brain them without them being severely altered (on a cultural, spiritual level) and probably use them for blood banks and shit.

>There is no reason to go around messing with their them.
I can think of many reasons. Ignoring the utility of a tribal upbringing and their brains, there's the fact they are a source of population which we know ain't filled with NCR spys, MLA weirdness or BOS hatred.
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>>1821184
Yeah, sure, but don't conspire to get them assimilated by Unity or whatever.

And we should avoid bulldozing the Nursury for more living room. We aren't exactly living green and we don't want to pave paradise and put up a parking lot. or foundations, or homes.
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>>1821190
Once the blank slates are part of unity they would be puppets of the unity consciousness without their own. Extensions of her will, rather than another voice in the consensus.
Like slaving an empty hard drive to act as storage rather than hold the OS

If they don't want to be debrained we can't force them. Nor should we be forcing them to give up their blood for experiments..
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>>1821188
>Well with our new neurological implants (and probably a bit of research) we can actually easily download an adult's memories and then imprint it onto a flash-grown clone.
That just raises different ethical problems regarding the mass creation of a individual and we've had a minor discussion of this before.

>Even better if we do more research and stitch together all sorts of peoples memories to create the perfect personalities for soldiers/researchers/what-have-you and just download those into clones as needed. Though obviously this approach is better suited for certain areas of endeavor than others (researchers in particular probably need to be non-standardized, dissension and differing viewpoints being necessary for the proper operation of the scientific method and all).
Fucking living through 30 people's lives, wanting their dreams, experiencing their feelings and knowing their beliefs and shit? That'd be fucking terrible. You'd be talking about reducing a individual's actual individual-ness down to nothing! About making a person a dime-a-dozen cookie-cutter piece of shit thrown together for our purposes. About making it so they are in actuality: nothing.

That is a god damn terrifying concept and I would never consider such a thing wise. Maybe creating VR training programs ala what the Matrix did but not that.

>>1821202
>Once the blank slates are part of unity they would be puppets of the unity consciousness without their own. Extensions of her will, rather than another voice in the consensus.
If that is an option that Unity can do then sure but I would point out her connection has a maximum range so they'd be useless for many missions and shit.

>If they don't want to be debrained we can't force them. Nor should we be forcing them to give up their blood for experiments..
We have their literally god at our beck and call and aren't harming them, like hell she can really put up an argument.
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>>1821195
.... I haven't tried to get them to join unity.
But im not against putting homes in it if it flows with nature.
>>
Logging off, won't be able to respond for another 16 hours or so.
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>>1821117
Didn't their parents come from a vault and they were born outside?
The children of the Vault Dweller stopped being primes after one generation. His own daughter was not a prime.

The Lone Wanderer was born not a prime because he was born outside a vault and lived a little bit there as a baby
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>>1821224
Yeah, i know, just meant like >>1821219
seemed to want.

>>1821219
>>1821046 was the one to suggest it.

And we are not forcing Diana into getting her people to do that. We're not treating them like cattle. They aren't murder rapists.
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>>1821219
Oh look, it's someone who has moral qualms about things.

Look, if I make a cow where its only ambition in life is to be someone's meal is it wrong to eat it? Was it wrong to create it?

That aside, no I wasn't suggesting living through 30 people's lives I was suggesting stitching together the memories/experiences from 30 peoples lives that are pertinent to being a soldier or being a researcher.

>That just raises different ethical problems regarding the mass creation of an individual
Like what?

>About making a person a dime-a-dozen cookie-cutter piece of shit thrown together for our purposes.
Who are you to say that they're nothing or less than other people just for having been engineered, you fucknut? Are the Crimson Dragoons that've been raised in a particular way since birth lesser than other people because they were trained?

Goddamn but you're a cunt if you actually believe anything you just said.
>>
Whats wrong with just making cloned children and raising them as part of our society? Let them choose their occupation just lke any other citizen. No need to implant other people's memories, let them create their own by growing into it.
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>>1821353
Well as it stands, right now most of the people have children already, so raising them would be an issue, and Just having more children won't help us. We need adults. Preferably skilled.

Also I don't like the idea of having a large population of clones. Messes with our already limited genetic diversity.
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>>1821306
>>1821219
FFS there are so many holes in that argument.

>Fucking living through 30 people's lives, wanting their dreams, experiencing their feelings and knowing their beliefs and shit? That'd be fucking terrible.
Fucking how would it be terrible?

>You'd be talking about reducing a individual's actual individual-ness down to nothing!
An individual is an individual no matter how many people might've had the same experiences. You're talking nonsense.

The more I look at this the more I think it's just a troll post.

>>1821353
Why not implant memories if it'll help them OR us? What's so special about naturally acquiring experiences that's not present in just knowing the shit beforehand because of your implant?
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>>1821371
I dunno, what's the difference between working for anything and getting it given to you?

Having people actually put effort into something keeps them humble. Prevents them from taking things for granted. They know things because they had the opportunity and the diligence, not because they were born better. Would help integration of immigrants and refugees in the long run methinks.
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>>1821385
Give the immigrants and the refugees and the implants. Presto, problem solved.

In fact, it becomes A FUCKING SELLING POINT.

>Join our nation and INSTANTLY YOU ARE WELL-EDUCATED AND WELL-ROUNDED with NO EFFORT

You sound just like the old fucks saying things were better back in their day because they had to till and harvest the land by hand instead of having combine harvesters.

If you remove the obstacles from people's way then, by and large, output increases. People don't just get lazy and decide to sit on their hands because their lives have been made easier.

Who gives a fuck if eventually they do take it for granted? They'll be doing things far in excess of what could've been done otherwise anyway.
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>>1821385
How can you POSSIBLY advocate for reducing manual labor via extensive automation and utilization of robots on the one hand, and then say "I dunno about these people getting shit for free...they might not appreciate it as much." with regards to anything on the other hand?

Literally who gives a fuck if they don't appreciate it as much because they didn't have to work for it? They have every right not to give as much a fuck, /because/ they didn't have to work for it.

They're starting as a baseline from a better position than the guy who had to work his whole life to master some skill or another...because they've already got all that guy's skill and they're just starting out. And what's so wrong about that anyway?
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>>1821371
I get where your coming from and its great as a utility for those that want it. But I want it to be a choice.

If you force it onto a person, as skilled as they become in encourages a dogmatic way of thinking. This same problem occurs in 40k with the adeptus mechanicus, and is a contributing factor on their problems.

In short my argument is im all for it if the people want it, but I dont want to make it mandatory.
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>>1821434
We've never made anything mandatory for people who already exist, why would we now with this stuff?

Unless you're counting new clones that we create with specialized memory sets as having had it done to them "mandatorily".
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>>1821451
>Unless you're counting new clones that we create with specialized memory sets as having had it done to them "mandatorily".

I am one of those people yes. I would rather raise a clone from childhood as a person, and let them then choose to get memory implants if that's something that they want.

But other than that, im fine with the idea of it. It could be a tremendous selling point to potential new citizens.
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>>1821467

Well what if we copy in the memory of a childhood into the clones and then let them decide? If you're worried about that not being 'unique' (because for some reason uniqueness is valuable, apparently?) then we've already demonstrated back with Diana that we'll be able to manipulate memories at some point, so we can make each person's childhood experience unique. We can even clone them into full adulthood, copy the memories, and then have them decide whether or not to undergo further memory implantation if that makes you more comfortable.

Raising people through childhood takes a loooong time, and we've got 300-some-odd people and the NCR and Legion and Brotherhood all have tens of thousands.
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>>1821422
Geez, a bit hostile there.
I was just saying that there is a difference between earning something and being given it.

If you want knowledge chips we can look into it.
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>>1821494
It would still be too similiar. It is important to have diversity of ideas in scientists. Different perspectives and ways of thinking. Clones with implanted child hoods would be too similiar. Changing the colour of their childhood toy only does so much to change who they are.

And I recommend that false memories be marked as such. Don't want people to lose their sense of who they are.
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>>1821510
Its the wellbeing of our imaginary dudes and future superpower status at stake here, someone's got to advocate for them.

Nah really the only thing that pissed me off was this guy: >>1821219 suggesting that engineered people are less than non-engineered people. The rest of it is just refutation of people being prudes in the face of non-objectionable pragmatism really.

You get the chance to have your cake and eat it too, but instead you've been convinced that cake is amoral so you just waft the scent instead.
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>>1821494
Diversify the happy childhood memories so that not every clone has the same one and thats a compromise ill agree to.

Its not that uniqueness itself is valuable, its that if we force all of our people to think the same then we only get new ideas from that same perspective. There is not that much of an outside perspective to challenge that way of thinking and we start to stagnate in one linear direction.
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>>1821549
I agree with him though. Making people, from cobbled together memories is something I believe should not be done. People deserve childhoods and youths of their own, not to be popped out of a flask to be put to work until they die.
And anyways, We'll get to the point of having a grand population eventually, and there are enough people who question themselves as is. No need for us to make more.
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>>1821582
Haha, I heartily agree. If we didn't introduce a certain amount of randomness into the system then it'd just turn into the same old shit.

>>1821605
Can you actually point out anything that's different, from the person's perspective, of having a childhood implanted versus living through a childhood? If you can then you've not actually executed the thought experiment correctly.

Also I'm not sure where you think our people are really being "put to work". They work if they want to, no one's forced.

Furthermore, I suppose we'd better not create any more AIs if you've got a problem with manufactured consciousnesses being poofed into existence in order to be put to work.

Lastly, with 300 people as a starting and barring massive genocide we will NEVER catch up with any of the other major factions. Unless you're talking about integrating people from other groups, at which point I still have to question where that's different from making our own.
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>>1821582
Addendum

Im not saying make a unique childhood memory for every clone, just enough so that they dont all have the same universal memory.
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>>1821626
The difference is that it actually happened, and they made their own choices. It's a lie otherwise. There are trials and tribulations that happen to children that can't be simulated. Life is dirty, and they need to know that for real.

Except I imagine you would want to choose memories that form good diligent hard workers. They work hard because they want to because you made them that way. It's a choice only in that they know no other option.

AI's are different. They are personality based, not memories. They know what they are from the beginning and do not live a life of a lie. Ms. New Vegas acts like Cass, but is not Cass.

Integration is different in that it still respects people's right to choose. They chose their lives and chose what they would do with it. You would choose every little thing in their formative years. Just making slaves that don't know it.

We included in our book the importance in the individual's growth. How can we claim to respect the individual when we make their choices for them.
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>>1821683
>Ms. New Vegas
Its Ms. New Washington /or Ms Phoenix interchangeably.

What are you thoughts on increasing our population?
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>>1821683
>It's a lie otherwise
>There are trials and tribulations that happen to children that can't be simulated.
>Life is dirty, and they need to know that for real.

Let's use an example from the real world, shall we?
>I, you, or some other example person wakes up in the morning
>Finds self in adult body
>Consults memories, remember life having trials/tribulations/being dirty/etc (insert arbitrary values of what's good here)

Shall we compare this to the life of a clone?
Oh right, it's exactly the fucking same.

>Except I imagine you would want to choose memories that form good diligent hard workers. They work hard because they want to because you made them that way. It's a choice only in that they know no other option.
I'd probably tend towards choosing memories that make people want to work hard, yeah. Why wouldn't I? What's really wrong with that? How's that different from schools teaching people how to be productive and our general propaganda efforts...aside that it's much more effective?

That being aside, how's it different from you having been raised the way you were and ending up where ever you're at? If you were sent back in time to be baby-you without any memories...your life would play out exactly the same. You made all your life decisions based upon conditions at the time and what your memories informed you to do. You'd do it all exactly the same if it was all exactly the same, and you'd do it different if it was different.

And if someone had groomed you for a position and you ended up in it then could I point my finger at you and reasonably say "YOU NEVER HAD A CHOICE!!"...?

Of course not, that's stupid and ridiculous.

>Integration is different in that it still respects people's right to choose. They chose their lives and chose what they would do with it. You would choose every little thing in their formative years. Just making slaves that don't know it.
Bullshit that they're slaves and don't know it.

They're people like anyone else, they've got talents in certain areas and not in others like anyone else. What difference does it make that someone chose what talents they'd have before birth rather than it being left up to random chance?

Here's another thought-experiment that you'll probably try to fumble through with non-arguments:
I have an equation that tells me that if I have fuck this girl right at this second then she'll have a kid and that kid's life will be be alright.

It also tells me that if I wait a second and then fuck this girl then she'll have a kid and that kid'll be a brilliant fucking engineer or something.

What you're saying is that it's your moral obligation to choose the former for some fucking nondescript reason about the kid having a choice or something.

>We included in our book the important in the individual's growth. How can we claim to repsect the individual when we make their choices for them.
Sounds to me like you just don't like certain kinds of individuals, you don't really have an argument.
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>>1821740
Oh yeah, my mistake. Population will increase with time. Our people are having babies, and as we expand into legion territory we will start integrating them into our way of life. We don't have to rush forward in making bottle babies for a problem that would resolve itself if we stay the course.
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>>1821760
Here, particularly answer how we're
>"Just making slaves that don't know it."

Are you some slave to your parents? They definitely raised you with some intent in their mind for where you'd end up at. They tried to make your life as good as possible.

Oh wait, I see it now. Those MONSTERS. Wishing you well at life and doing their best to equip you to succeed. What a couple of Grade-A evil motherfuckers (one of them literally) for doing that to you. Goddamn. Wanna go beat them up Anon? I'll help you, after what they did to you they deserve it.
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>>1821779
You're acting like making bottle babies is wrong, yet you can't point out a damn thing that's actually wrong with it.

Meanwhile I could point out all sorts of problems that will come from integrating former Legion citizens.
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>>1821793
When you get angry your arguments start sounding more like personal attacks. Something I've noticed.
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>>1821831
No, I start using personal attacks when it's clear the other person doesn't have real reasons to hold their position so logical argument isn't worthwhile.

Just a change of tact, really. Also other anons have pointed out problems in trying to integrate Legion citizens before. What's Couripor up to these days?
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>>1821760
Except it isn't real. It's all a lie. Childhoods that don't exist, lessons that were never taught. There is a difference between waking up when you went to bed, and merely thinking it.

The fact that you aren't allowing people to choose their own path. School and the media and your parents all guide you, point out the choices that they think you should take, but the final choice is yours. You are free to reject them all, live the life you want to live. That is what is different between growing up and being decanted.

They are slaves. They work because they don't know they can not work. Just becasue they don't wear chains does not make them a slave. It's no better than brainwashing people.

That is a dumb as fuck thought experiment. Either way, apparently the kid has their life set in stone. They are apparently equally forced on a path. And it's not even relevant because that isn't how people work.

How are they individuals if they never lived individual lives? They are just drones. I don't think you understand shit about what being an individual means.
>>
>>1821793
Making bottle babies reprogrammed at adult hood is most definitely wrong. Because its making slaves.
>>
>>1821867
*preprogrammed
>>
>>1821860
Can you actually demonstrate on your own, by yourself, that you didn't just wake up this morning and /think/ that everything in your past happened?

Yes or no, and if the answer is no then your whole argument is invalid.

>The fact that you aren't allowing people to choose their own path. School and the media and your parents all guide you, point out the choices that they think you should take, but the final choice is yours. You are free to reject them all, live the life you want to live. That is what is different between growing up and being decanted.

Yeah, you don't think someone who's been decanted doesn't get to choose what they do? What robs them of free will?

>That is a dumb as fuck thought experiment. Either way, apparently the kid has their life set in stone. They are apparently equally forced on a path. And it's not even relevant because that isn't how people work.
Your mom didn't think it was a dumb thought experiment when I told it to her last night. By the way, I chose the latter. I hope you're ready for a brother who's better than you in every way.

Anyway, even the personal attacks aren't worth it anymore. You just make it too easy, it'd be more rewarding if I had to work for it instead of you handing me all this material to use.
>>
>>1821851
I agree alot with some of his points but i believe weve worked out a solid compromise that im willing to stand by.

As to the legion, im willing to admit that there will be challenges trying to integrate them into our society(and i may have some ideas to post when im off work/have more time) but ultimately I think its worth trying, if for no other reason than to prove our superiority to the ncr. But if they can be educated and integrated, they would be a huge boon to the population of our nation
>>
>>1821897
No. But all the decanted people aren't going to be alone there would be all the normal people who would verify they never existed, never had childhoods. Unless you plan to set up a giant ass Truman show for every one. You fucking retard.

>Yeah, you don't think someone who's been decanted doesn't get to choose what they do? What robs them of free will?

The fact that all their childhood choices were made for them Jesus christ, you are a dumb ass motherfucker.
>>
>>1821929

>"Dude, like all those childhood memories...they never happened. I was there, you weren't."
>"But I remember them."
>"But dude, they weren't real."
>"Does it really matter though, as long as I think they were real?"
>"But there's The fact that all their childhood choices were made for them Jesus christ, you are a dumb ass motherfucker."
>>
>>1821948
Surprisingly, not everyone is an empathy-less manchild like you, and actually put weight in things like truth and not having their entire life being a lie.
>>
Back. Any questions?
>>
>>1820328
Roll me 1d100!
>>
>>1821954
See now though you're just, ironically, discounting the individual's perspective when you say that. If an individual thinks that something subjective to them (such as their memories, whatever they may be) are true then you can't really tell them they're wrong.

It'd be kind of like me trying to tell you that you being angry right now is 'wrong'. You're clearly mad perhaps even bootyblasted. No amount of me as someone who is separate from you telling you that your subjective feeling of anger is "false" because "you're a stupid fucking cunt who doesn't understand how things actually work" makes your feeling of anger less valid. Because your feelings (like your memories) are subjective to you and the only people who have input on your validity are yourself (either directly, or by extension of you trusting other people and letting their opinions temper yours).
>>
Rolled 7 (1d100)

>>1821988
>>
Rolled 11 (1d100)

>>1821988
I think there were already 3 rolls though.
>>
>>1821988
We have 3 rolls already, do you want another?
>>1820410
>>1820420
>>1820421
>>
>>1821996
Ive brought shame to the quest
>>1821998
Now i dont feel so bad.
>>
>>1820410
>Rolled 69 (1d100)
>Talk to Diana

Interdasting.

>>1820328
>>1820420
Writing!
>>
>>1821989
What the fuck are you saying?
"You can't tell someone their memories are wrong?" It's called facts, dumbass, and when they say one thing and your memories another, they are wrong memories.

And wow, ain't you just the smartest kid in the room. How was freshman Philosophy? I;m sure you would learn other philosophies than nihilism in the new school year.
>>
>>1822013
I didn't mean in a sexual manner, I just want to be friends.
>>
>>1822021
Sheeiiiit, nigga. It's just that if I can't measure it I don't believe in it, which is the stance of all rational folks, and you can't show me anything inside my frame of reference that's different between an implanted and 'real' memory.

What if I fabricated a childhood that happened outside Big MT, and secretly introduced this clone into society undercover of being a refugee? Nobody's around to say any of his memories are wrong. Nobody knows that his memories were fake either. You gonna tell that nigga he ain't real?

You're making generalized statements and throwing around your emotions like they're facts, it's real easy to disprove those.
>>
>>1822051
>>1822021

The thing here being that according to what you posit, namely:
>"You can't tell someone their memories are wrong?" It's called facts, dumbass, and when they say one thing and your memories another, they are wrong memories."

Then all I have to do is come up with a situation where there are no facts that "say one thing and your memories another" then your conclusion, that "they are wrong memories." becomes false.

Your pretty bad at this, my man. Never took philosophy but maybe you should've and you'd have a bit more argumentative rigor to you.
>>
>>1822051
If he aint real, he aint real Nigga.

Yes, it is the opinion of all enlightened rational beings, that everything remembered might as well not exist.

Crime doesn't exist because once it happens, it's just a memory, and you can't measure that.

You truly are an enlightened soul, wielding the sharpest of katanas, and the blackest of trenchcoats. God speed you incredible little baby genius.
>>
>>1822068
That isn't how facts work you dumbass. A fact is a fact regardless of it being known. If someone is living a lie, just because no one can call them on it, doesn't make it a lie. That's why they are discovered, not made.
>>
>>1822073
If crime happens, and then any measurable repercussions from it go away (including memories in the victims that they hold to be valid)...then yeah, for all intents and purposes it doesn't exist once it happens.

You can measure memories, that's the point. You're just using the wrong meterstick when you measure memories against facts instead of measuring memories against an individual's opinions and memories.
>>
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>>1820410
Among the many things you have tested out is an implant which can mimic the sensation of touch and feeling onto AI. While theoretically it can be applied to something like an animatronic in the shape of a human, another function would be to allow holograms to perceive things touching them. While for a solid body like you it would feel to be nothing but air, the hologram would perceive your hand as touching their skin. They would feel any holographic clothing or items on their body as though it were actual skin as well, and the sensations of warm, cold, or wind as normal.

You may install it and perform a tust run on Diana, if you wish.

>Yes
>No
>>
>>1822081
See now though, can you actually demonstrate that facts work in the fashion you say? Because I can demonstrate my side all day, but all I've got is your word on it that facts exist outside of being known. And frankly I don't trust you.
>>
Rolled 35 (1d100)

>>1822088
>Yes
>>
>>1822086
"I'm right, as long as you ignore facts"
Aren't you just a rational thinker you.
>>
>>1822088
Go for it, but don't be all creepy about it. Just let her feel the touch of her children or something.
>>
>>1822088
nah
>>
>>1822101
Look man, who told you facts were facts? Did you see it with your eyes, hear it with your ears, or feel it with your skin? How do you know you weren't tricked?
>>
>>1822088
Ask her if she wants to try it. Ill let her choose.
>>
>>1822093
Well germ theory is a fact. Germs exist. They always have. They didn't just pop into existence when seen.

Radiation exists, even if you can't see, or touch or taste it.

The America's existed prior to Leaf Ericson. That is a fact, even before any european knew about it.

Retard,

>>1822114
I've seen many facts and I trust authority on the matter and the scientific process.

Have you been to switzerland? Do you not believe in switzerland? How about The Eiffel tower, or Mount rushmore? Or even a woman who would willingly fuck you? You never seen them so they must not exist.
>>
>>1822120
actually, support this. Give her no indication of what we want though.
>>
>>1822120
Diana seems withdrawn even more these days, roused mostly when you show up but its hard to read how she's feeling. Probably because she doesn't know herself.

>You
[Diana. Would you like to feel the warm sun on your skin again?]

That seems to get a big response. Her eyes light up, and she almost seems to smile, before she frowns again.

>Diana
"Why are you asking me. It doesn't matter what I want."

>You
[I'm only asking Diana. I get the feeling you haven't felt anything since long ago. Have you?]

She glares at you, before softening and sighs.

>Diana
". . .yes. I would like that."
>>
>>1822141
lets try it out then.
>>
>>1822141
Okay, if she wants it.
>>
>>1822141
I voted for this, but I hate that we had to do this to diana. I want to say something to her to make it better but I have no idea what to say.
>>
>>1822163
same.
>>
>>1822134
I can observe germs in various ways. I could always observe germs in various ways, same with radiation, the Americas, Switzerland, and even your mom.

So anyway, you've seen facts. That's good. Now what if I tricked your eyes? What if you railed and swore that, say, Climate Change wasn't real (as, indeed 'authority' and the scientific process were both twisted for quite some time to make people think it wasn't).

Even while you try to disprove me you're kind of showing my point. Everything you believe in has some root of observability (whether or not people were there to see it or clever enough to put the pieces together being held aside).

Accordingly, when you can't directly observe something (like the memories inside someone's head) you gotta take the observations you can get on them. You can only find out things about someone's memory by what they tell you about their memories, and so (that being your only ability to observe the subject matter) you've got to take those observations at face value.

You pretty effectively proved my point here.

It'll be interesting to see if we could ever tell the difference, in a double-blind study, between real and implanted memories as we advance our neurological sciences. Seeing as, in-quest, we have more direct means of observing people's memories.
>>
>>1822172
>>1822134

Literally the basis of science, which you say you trust, is empirical observation. If you can't see it in some form or fashion then you don't believe it as a fact.

Memories aren't ever facts, they're just people's observations of events. (facts, if you want to call them that) It doesn't make them any more or less valid whether they observed them firsthand or secondhand or whatever, because they were never precisely the way things happened anyway.
>>
>>1822172
Well you take the descriptions of their memory, compare it to how things actually were, in whatever memory they were describing, and if they are wrong, they are wrong. Just cause I remember the local McDonalds serving Fried Dog doesn't make it so.

You seem to be under the impression one's memories exist in a vacuum, and not the world in which the memories are supposedly based. Being able to tell the difference means nothing when, if compared to reality, it is wrong.
>>
>>1820028
>-Memory Interface Implant - Allows you to restore lost memories to individuals, access their memories for download and view in VR, or modify them at will. Requires surgical access. You believe you can cure Dr. Bradley's amnesia. This will also serve as a cure to Alzheimers and Dementia
>-Curative Implants - You have devised implants to help treat many brain based illnesses and use the brain to help treat other illnesses, for example, using Diana's cure for cancer to reverse the damage caused by tumors
Well at least we got results for the Followers to be happy about, and by using less than 50 people too.
>>
>>1822193
>Dr Dala
"Oh! That was so. . .revealing!"

>Dr Borous
"Yes! It was by far, an invigorating study."

>Dr Klein
"INDEED! TRULY SUCH EXPERIMENTS KEEP OUR MINDS SHARP AND OUR SCALPELS SHARPER.

WHEN DO YOU ANTICIPATE WE CAN GET MORE SUCH TEST SUBJECTS DR. MOBIUS? WE SHOULD CONSIDER INCREASING OUR QUOTA"
>>
>>1822188
No, here's the thing is that there's no perfect ledger of events "as they actually were".

Let's say you and everyone else in town says the local McDonalds have been serving Fried Dog. You guys all really think that, for good reason. You distinctly remember being served a chihuahua on a plate.

Security Camera footage, meanwhile, shows you distinctly not being served chihuahua on a plate. For all of you in town, in fact.

There's no mystical thing in the universe that keeps track of things as they actually happened. So were you served Fried Dog or not? Are you guys all wrong or is the security camera footage wrong?
>>
>>1822218
is this enough to tick off the box from the Post-scarcity list?
>>
>>1822218
question for Klein
>>1820220
>>
>>1822225
Almost. You just need to round off the new unblockable Tesla Coil.
>>
>>1822188
>>1822223
The point being you don't know how things actually were except as someone or something is telling you, at some point. And when different things say different things happen how can you, with any actual rigor, state that one version of events was right and the other is not?
>>
>>1822223
The video shows otherwise, assuming the video was proven to be undoctored, No one would have been served dog. We would be wrong. A group delusion is still a delusion.

Memories are unreliable things, and accepted as such. Which is eye witness testimonies are so often wrong.
>>
>>1822234
Okay, so what if one security camera footage shows that Fried Dog was served, another shows it wasn't, and you guys still all have those memories? There's no apparent tampering with either security camera, or its footage even when the most expert of security camera experts in the world look at it.
>>
>>1822233
The events that have evidence and logic behind their happening would be the one that happened. It is a very special "rational thinker" to put memories over observations.

The murderer says he didn't do it, the finger prints show he did. Truly, no one can state which events actually happened.
>>
>>1820220
>Dr Klein
"WHATEVER IT IS, IT WAS INFERIOR TO OUR GLORIOUS RESEARCH."

>Dr 0
"Hmmm. I think those guys did robots? Wait a minute, Dala you know about them, right?"

>Dala
"If I recall, Bio-med gel was invented there. But I cannot think of anything else of interest."
>>
>>1822242
At that point, no one can state what happened. Until there is further investigation, a deeper look at the facts. Dog hair in the fryer or something.
>>
>>1822248
So what you're saying here is that at some point you're making a value judgment that one set of observations shows that a certain 'fact' occurred while another shows that some other 'fact' occurred.

So you're making a value judgment, it might be well informed or whatever (in your subjective opinion, at the time) but is your judgment flawless? Supposing it's not flawless how can you claim that what you're saying is so undoubtedly 'fact'? It's just your word against someone else's at some point.
>>
>>1822260
Let's say that all the evidence in the whole world is the conflicting security camera footages and your memories. Did you eat Fried Dog or not?
>>
>>1822263
Nothing is undoubtedly. But I can be without a reasonable doubt certain. So evidence , if done right, I can be quite certain is fact. Someone telling me their memories, I can be much less certain of it's validity.

>>1822267
I don't know. I couldn't say for certain.
>>
>>1822146
>>1822153
>>1822103
You almost think you hear a sob as she is deactivated again, and her brain placed in unconsciousness. Once more you take a knife to her head and implant your new chip into her.

This thing better work, 22 people died to get this right.

---

Sometime later, you watch Diana.

She breathes. Her hologram didn't breath before. She touches her arm and hand, and you think you see tears on her face, as she wipes them from her eyes.

The hologram steps outside into the sun and leaves. The beams of light illuminate her body, and she just stands there for a long time basking in it. The leaves that fall fall through her body, but holographic copies touch her skin and fall off too.

She shuts her eyes and feels her body again, at least, as close as you were able to get. You think you see her whisper something through her lips.

If you read it right, she said thanks, silently.

You decide to sit there and observe just to make sure the implant works perfectly, while she spends the better part of the day bathing in the sun and wind, her holographic hair flowing past.
>>
>>1822293
Oh, I see. You can't say for certain because people's memories are unreliable and may be inaccurate even when it's a whole town of people.

Alright.

You're also assigning more weight to security camera footage than people's memories for no real reason other than a subjective personal opinion that "witnesses are unreliable". Even though you have a whole town of people saying the same thing.

Sure does sound like you have no demonstrable way of showing facts. You can, demonstrably, say that everyone THINKS they ate dog though.

You can further demonstrate that everyone will ACT like they ate dog at the local McDonalds, and it is likely to fail now. Even though none of these people have any verification of the fact that they ate dog there.

Sure does seem like memories exist as their own thing, individual to each person, separate from actual 'facts' (even if they could be verified) to me.

But I'm just some bastard who enjoys deviant sexual activities with your mom on a regular basis, so whatever I guess.
>>
>>1822315
It is actually a fact that witnesses are unreliable
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/do-the-eyes-have-it/
So, y'know, there's that. Or do studies not count unless done by your meticulous, rational hand?

And so what if people act like they ate dog. The question is did they. And the answer is I don't know. If a million people said they saw me kill a guy in Nigeria, but there is a video of me not in Sweden buying a Fanta, I'm not going to be convicted for murder.

And wow. Your mom jokes. Truly you are a modern master of wit and humor.
>>
>>1822351
Who do you think did the studies? Do you think it was some folks who had absolute knowledge of the way things actually are? You're really not very capable of abstraction, are you?

Anyway, the thing is that memories only have a tenuous connection to reality in the first place (as evidenced by witnesses being unreliable, you lackwitted fucknut). Taking that as a premise, how can you say that someone's implanted memories aren't as real as your memories, when your memories aren't really the way shit happened in the first place? And what does it matter if they think it was them in whatever location seeing whatever thing, when in the first place YOU can't be sure that your memory of that same thing is accurate?
>>
>>1822315
>>1822351
>>1822369
What happened to the your mom jokes? They were the spotlight of this argument!
>>
>>1822351

>Memories can't be real if they don't match up with the facts
>By the way, eye-witnesses often don't remember the way things actually were

>BUT IF YOU INSERT MEMORIES INTO A CLONE AND MAKE THEM THINK THEY'RE REAL THEN YOU'RE AN AMORAL MONSTER!!

I swear that your mom is dumber than you but not by much.
>>
>>1822369
It's by folks who are fairly certain of what they are talking about. Science is never 100% about anything, or did you miss that day in grade 9 science? Tell me, do you believe in scientific studies? Or is everything a lie out to get you?

Well natural memories would be less wrong, closer to reality, than false ones. The main parts of the memory happened, but the details are off, vs nothing is accurate at all. So an implanted memory is significantly less real than a natural memory which is less real than reality. These things are not a binary correct and incorrect.
I can find proof of what I am remembering, collaboration that confirms the truth until new evidence is presented. An implanted memory cannot. It is wholly a lie, based around lies.
>>
>>1822394
Jeez mate. Letting your jimmies get rustled there?

Reality is real (I feel as if it needs to be said for you)
Real memories are generally slightly wrong
Fake Memories are completely wrong.

Heavens forbid I prefer things be more correct than less.
>>
>>1822307
So OP can we use fissile to help out ZEX.
If so I vote to use fissile.
>>
Is QM dead again?
>>
>>1822628
Well goodnight then.
>>
>>1822486
>ZEX
snicker

Do you mean going into overdrive and using more resources?
Then yeah, I support that action too.
>>
What is it again with the overabundance of moralfaggotry. If we didnt do the "bad" things we have done we would literally have nothing. No Think Tank, no ZAX, no second ZAX, no Enclave. We would be in the Mojave running a shitty shack collection by the river hoping Mr. House wasnt going to evict us.

These things need to happen if we are going to survive. Why are you whining about it?
>>
Wait. We never talked about the Reavers with Riddick. I'd like we do that too.
>>
>>1822307
I bet Diana would have never gotten this if she went with BoS

Doing inhumane experiments on 40+ people was worth it just for this scene.

don't say this to her
>>
>>1822922
But this is exactly my point. A little bad for a lot of good. Not to mention the scientific advances. And if we get the tesla teleporter signal working we can use all the clone commandos we want. Even implant them with bombs so the bodies dont get discovered. We can use this to train the brains in non-stop VR until the bodies are ready and then just replace the bodies when they get lost. Saves time on training and affords extra experience as well as extra lives to the soldier.

So we basically make level-restart Republic Commandos.
>>
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>>1822932
So, how about we make four squads of four men. Each receiving training to be the very best at whatever they can. I personally liked the RC variant of Demo, Tech, Sniper and Command. Outfit every man with a stealth suit, (medical systems, sensor array, command uplink and so on) combat augs (both gene and cyber variant) and an internal explosive device strong enough to bow the body to smitherines so nothing is left to recover. The men themselves are selected and enhanced brains with uplinks to the bodies they use. Keep a few sets of bodies on hand so they can be quickly replaced and have the brains train with MAJOR in VR and any of our combat/skill companions to make them as good as possible. Strictly quality over quantity.

What do you anons think?
>>
>>1823019
>>1822932
Sure. If it's with downloaded memories, so long as they don't have an identity crisis from being clones with manufactured memories it's fine.
>>
>>1823020
If we go this route we can use "actual people" as the brains. No need for a custom body, just the right hardware. And this brings up a good point: we can train one squad to be the best and then copy-paste the experiences to others. Saves time on training other squads. If we can streamline the process we can even make new officers and doctors from a clone vat. Have them implanted with knowledge and skills but grow the personality the normal way. Basically make super-educated amnesiacs. We can overcome our population problems easily if we go this direction. This should also appease the moralist crowd.
>>
>>1822932
I didn't really read the argument, seems that it got heated a bit.
I am a massive moralfag usually, try to play as much as goody-two-shoes fag as possible. I was vehemently opposed to slaving Diana and betraying BoS, although I reluctantly agreed in the end. To be honest, it went much better than I anticipated, we didn't actually kill our temporary companions.


The clone thing doesn't seem to me as morally wrong as what we did with Diana. In fact, as long as they are aware that they are clones, and we make sure that they don't get existential crisis. I am okay with it.


>>1822932
>>1823019

The de-brained bodies you suggest are different then what we have now, right? You basically suggest we remove the brain to safe location but leave it connected to the body so that it fully controls it. No 2 people for price of 1 as we have now, right?

Sounds interesting.

The bodies should be absolute best we can make. We will take perfect specimens or design ones to be vat-grown, then put the best of the best gene and cyber augments we have. Get them the whole package. Just because we are making soldiers doesn't mean they don't need CHA, INT mods.

>>1823020
yeah, I agree
>>
>>1823074
Yes, and my point is also that if the body dies, we can make a new one. Essentially keeping the mind alive and "leveling up" while the shell is replaceable. Just clone anther one and hook it up. This means the brains learn from their mistakes as well.
>>
>>1823065

What we could do is this.

Give them memories and experiences of the most fulfilling and best childhood and young adulthood we can manufacture. I don't just mean some happy life.
Things like being in boyscouts to learn survival skills when they were young. Very active childhood where there was no compromise between a well-rounded education and exercise. Social skills. Patriotic zeal. Etc.

Then they would attend college to get STEM education. Then they would join army and get military training.

So, 18 years of childhood, teenage years. 7 years of STEM. 5 years of military.

Then they get born in real word at the prime age of 30 with perfect bodies and at this point these vat-grown citizens (which they know that they are and are absolutely okay with it) can choose how they will be useful for our nation. Do they become doctors, engineers, scientists or soldiers? They will have freedom of choice.


I like that idea much better than just printing soldiers for the frontlines. We have robots for that.
I am okay with printing high quality military OFFICERS though.
>>
>>1823093
Maybe we should ask our guys about what they think first?
>>
>>1823093
Why do we want to create military officers?

What's wrong with using just normal humans?
>>
>>1823173
Exactly. This whole clone buisness is a solution to a problem we don't have. Its not something we have to do for survival, as it takes resources from our normal robot operations.
>>
>>1823173
>>1823205
You do realize we have a handful of people right? And that of those, only a handful are in the military. To get them to the point of being a god officer takes years and years of service, training and experience. Now imagine this: Instead of all that we clone the best and brightest we have. We give them all the knowledge and experience they need to be soldiers doctors whatever and we can be certain they have no affiliation with our enemies. If we treat them like humans and not like meat I dont see why they would either. So the point is this: We can print capable and excellent citizens instead of having to rely on outside factors. Why would we not use this?

>>1823173
>What's wrong with using just normal humans?
We are using them and there are not enough. ESPECIALLY when we start making many more bots for the wars to come.

>>1823093
>I like that idea much better than just printing soldiers for the frontlines. We have robots for that.
Not cannon fodder. Specialists behind the scenes. There is absolutely no reason to waste citizens on the front lines. Bots are replaceable, cheap and pack a great punch. Humans are for C&C and specialist tasks.
>>
>>1823215
Because clones would mess with the limited genetic diversity of our state, as well as take research better put elsewear and facilities that need resources put to use in different buildings. And finally, because the there is no need for it. We can do just fine with the officers we have.
>>
>>1823232
>Because clones would mess with the limited genetic diversity of our state
Diversification of the base model is not hard. Besides, with a population of 300 we are already inbreeding central. I agree we import people but this is a prime way to resolve the issue.

>>1823232
>take research better put elsewear and facilities that need resources put to use in different buildings.
We are talking about the biotech research. Do you not want genemods for our citizens? Better radiation resistance, STR, INT boosts? If you do, we go that way. We will research better tesla coils anyway so that is also a moot point. And what else do you want to do with cloning vats? Demolish them? Please.

>>1823232
>because the there is no need for it.
You have noticed we are trying to push our people to debrain, right? So we can have more research staff? Or TACT bots? This is exactly the reason we need this.
>>
>>1823245
So your solution is make things worse? The only reason we have so few people is that we haven't been expanding. Once we start pushing into legion territory we would be getting more people to serve our purposes. You want to make more of something that is readily available out there.

There is a difference between beneficial gene mods and clone soldiers. They require different research

We can develop smarter robots using metal and circuit brains. The technology is clearly possible or gen 2 synths won't be a thing. It would be cheaper in the long run than feeding flesh and blood clones.
>>
>>1823245
>>1823232
What's keeping us from taking the genetic material of the corpses from all the people we fight or those that die?
>>
>>1823173
.... the military officers would be humans, just vat-grown.

I just don't see any reason to put human soldiers or specialists at front lines. I would argue that specialists behind the scenes are even at greater risk to come under fire.

Why officers though? Well, humans especially de-brained ones and heavily augmented ones are still better commanders than AI. Companies should consist entirely out of robots commanded by a human officer with his brain in a TACT bot. Squads should be led by SARGE bots, which would have very low offensive capabilities and most hardware dedicated to command and communications.
>>
>>1823248
>So your solution is make things worse? The only reason we have so few people is that we haven't been expanding. Once we start pushing into legion territory we would be getting more people to serve our purposes. You want to make more of something that is readily available out there.
I dont think you realized what I said. We can diversify the clones themselves. They need not be 1:1. Also, >>1823249 has a good point.

>>1823248
>There is a difference between beneficial gene mods and clone soldiers. They require different research
Yes, the commando clone bodies require the enhanced gene mods we would develop. The making-a-clone research would be separate, yes. So 1-2 research actions for the free biotech research machine. Great.

>>1823248
>We can develop smarter robots using metal and circuit brains. The technology is clearly possible or gen 2 synths won't be a thing. It would be cheaper in the long run than feeding flesh and blood clones.
See, here you run into a wall. If we make smart enough robots then you just switch an organic for a mechanical being and are right back to square 1. You remember the Institute and their synth dilemma? This is that. I propose we sidestep this whole issue by treating them like humans from the start, despite the fact we manufacture them. And besides, this avenue of research is far easier for us to achieve at this moment.

So I see no real counter arguments that can not be solved or are flawed (in regard to synths). We will not make slaves, we will not degrade them and we will not throw away huge resource to get it. The only "waste" would be a couple of free research actions. No biggie. Even necessary if we want to clone animals from the databanks. So even more reason to do this.
>>
>>1823260

you know, it depends on how long these people will need to gestate before being ready. While we could grow a body rapidly, the accelerated memory and experience implantation could take years.

Besides, we don't even know if this whole thing is possible. Though it should be since NCR does it somehow.
>>
>>1823260
Fine he has a point.

Vs 1-2 research from the free robot machine, plus we have the facilities to mass produce robots already in greater numbers than clones.

The shi emperor is a massive probablility calculator. It is not aware. So we can build smarter bots by having them capable of running simulations, analyzing probablilities and choosing the optimal strategy for any engagement, all without the issues that the institute met. They wanted to build something that replaces human's. We want something that can fight logically.
>>
>>1823266
The NCR seems to be making grunts though. Big and dumb, not possessing the higher level thinking that >>1823260
wants.
>>
>>1823270
they have two versions

Brute grunts and charismatic leaders.
>>
>>1823270
>>1823277
Yes, this is why I believe this can be done relatively quickly. Whats more, I would want our clones to be superior in every way possible.

>>1823267
>The shi emperor is a massive probablility calculator. It is not aware.
That is true, and if we ever get it we should use it for large-scale threat analysis but I dont see it being useful in a covert OP with many unknown factors, which is why I am pushing for the clones. If the NCR can do it, we can do it better.

>>1823266
>the accelerated memory and experience implantation could take years.
This is my only real concern: how long would it take to go from 0-100 on those. If we can make synths faster I say go for those, but currently I think clones are the way we can alleviate our concerns.

And we can breach the subject with Diana by starting with gene mods and then cloning doctors or other "good" field personnel.
>>
>>1823284
We can scale it down. A brain sized probablilty calculator may not have the precision as the emperor, but having a bunch of them to create consensus like the geth would help mitigate that. Thus we have smart field command bots without having to resort to clones.

We also don't have to resort to beating the NCR at its own game all the time. If they go clones, we go robots, which are hardier, easier to make, and last longer.
Making robots will always be faster than making clones as you aren't limited by the biological mechanisms of cell division.
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>>1823294
You miss my point. Our army will be bots. No doubt about it. I am not advocating for a clone army. I am saying that in situations were an imaginative solution is needed our bots will not do. We either resort to using the ZAX (we have FAR better uses for it), make a giant prediction machine (even if geth style, would still be too big to be mobile and has no guarantee of being "imaginative") or go synth (no different than clones). If we go clones we not only increase our citizen base (especially in skilled fields) but we also have the option of using specialist troops without any real losses (brains piloting bodies from BigMT).

I am not seeing any downsides besides "its a clone" and that is frankly not an argument but a statement of fact which somehow doesnt sit well with some people. Again, we will treat them fairly and they will not die, ever (the brains). If that is not great I dont see what is. Not to mention, again, we get free scientist. And even if it takes a year to grow, that is fine. Then we fill to capacity and boost our population with 50 highly-educated scientist every year. Doesnt seem bad to me. Think of all the free research actions we will get. Far outweighs any research spent to make it happen.
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>>1823308
No, im saying we build tacts, but instead of puttinf in brains, the size of 2 fists, we put in an artificial brain that is larger, say 4 fists. We have that be a smaller, less accurate probability calculator. We have many of these tact models, all networked., so they can compile all their simulations and choose optimal strategies and tactics while knowing exactly what the rest of the army is doing. Makes human officers obselete.

I don't think we get free research just from getting more brains. Look at how much shit we need for a second construction action. The first action only needed the 1 omniconstructor or something.

A second research action would probably require a lot of other stuff, with brains being less of a priority. And anyways, all brains are automatically 10 int when out of skull, so there is no point cloning them when any brain would do.
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>>1823318
>>1823318
>No, im saying we build tacts, but instead of puttinf in brains, the size of 2 fists, we put in an artificial brain that is large
Seeing as anything truly smart we have requires a brain I dont think networking computers achieves the same result as TACTs with brains do. They communicate already and the reason we need those in the first place is that the bots themselves cant do it smart enough. So we either build masses and masses of TACTs or we build a few with brains. Brains are more cost-effective.

>>1823318
>I don't think we get free research just from getting more brains.
Yes, it probably wont be as easy. We will have to also build a research center for all the researchers we will use. QM even stated that all we need for an FEV bonus was the FEV lab. And if we want to build many research wings we will need lots of researchers.

>>1823318
>And anyways, all brains are automatically 10 int when out of skull,
Yes, they are. But you know what is also NAT 10? An engineered scientist. So you basically get two already educated and brilliant scientist for the price of cloning one. Pure win. Try to find those odds in the wastes. You wont.

Again, you are dismissing them just because they are clones, not because they are somehow a bad solution. From what I have stated nothing has directly been refuted, only alternatives given. The best option right now is cloning valuable people. If synths become an option (in the way they were in F4) I will support their use as well. However, right now, clones are a brilliant way to improve literally every sector of our nation. Across the board. For no real cost to boot.
>>
>>1823331
Well we never worked on positronic brains. They are fully possible to make that match the brain in processing ability, probably more if we don't have consciousness or thoughts.
so we would be able to reduce the amount of needed tact models, but more is better anyways as they add redundancy and increase operational efficiency.

Except not really. Super computers would be cheaper in the long run, as no food required, and be able to do much more complex mathmatics. 2 10 in brain and body, vs a 20 int positronic supercomputer capable of focusing on 2
5 different things, running calculations that the engineers would need a super computer anyways for. It also reduces our luxury goods needs, which can be put to use in the war industry. You're just making people to make people which is a waste of resources and space and time.
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>>1823347
See, now you are getting into something we have no research in. This means we would need to focus on this for far more than 2 turns an gets really into hyperbole. "If we had alien motherships we would not need flying drones."

Tell me what your fundamental problem with cloning is. Because there obviously is one the way you are looking for excuses.
>>
>>1823232
Completely agree with this.

We're diverting precious resources away from our core goals (robotics / replication) and into entirely new fields with new problems - for dubious rewards.

If we need a crack commando team - use the Courier + companions or the Chinese stealth team.
>>
>>1823358
We don't have research in cloning either so that's a moot point.

Cloning is inefficient as robots can do anything they do better, pointless as it you want to make people for the sake of having more people, which is a dumb reason and the way you want to go at it, serves to make a slave army you can feel morally superior about, because they are doing it of their free will, except you made it so they wouldn't think of doing otherwise. Its slavery with extra steps.
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>>1823367
They are also expensive in upkeep, as they take up luxury resources and food and water at rates far greater than computers.
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>>1823365
>We're diverting precious resources away
Literally the only thing that wont bring widespread bonuses to everybody is pure cloning tech (which is arguable, since we have hundreds of animal samples we might want to clone). Everything else is applicable to every citizen we have (genemods for better stats, rad resistance, durability and so on). And all this would be done by the biotech ZAX anyway (if we dont use the facilities here it is a total waste. Also she is apt at biotech, not much else - seen from the dilapitated state of the facility before us). Thus, all we would do is use Diana to her fullest and reap the rewards all along the way.

>>1823365
>If we need a crack commando team - use the Courier + companions or the Chinese stealth team.
My point was for multiple teams of people. When we start the war against the NCR, for example, we will want as many train tracks, ammo depos and airfields disabled simultaneously as possible. This would shift the force multiplier in our favor (we desperately need this).

As to genetic diversity, it is not really a problem. We can incorporate whatever genes we want from whoever. Whats more, if we go along with genemods, we can mod out any unwanted genes in the first place. Things like hereditary disease will be a non-issue. Type-2 diabetes, for example, is also curable. These are but a few examples of the advantages of this tech. Again, not to mention the skilled labor we could have an abundance of.
>>
I just want to say that I am all for vat-grown/cloned scientists, engineers, doctors, administrators, etc

Soldiers..... eh, maybe, maybe not
>>
>>1823367
>>1823374
Dude what are you talking about. We have a whole cloning facility, we have an AI who specializes in biotech and we have already cloned people (albeit dead) perfectly. So no, we do have research in cloning. We also have a facility built and as good a researcher as possible.

>>1823367
>Cloning is inefficient as robots can do anything they do better
But they cant. This is why we use TACTs, why we have no researchers who lack brains and why this is an issue in the first place.

>>1823367
>make people for the sake of having more people
You think a larger populace affords no benefit? What even??

>>1823367
>serves to make a slave army you can feel morally superior about
You have either not been listening or are incapable of understanding. We dont make slaves. We make citizens. We dont force them at the end of a whip and we dont kill them for fun. This is again such hyperbole.

>>1823374
>They are also expensive in upkeep
Give me a valid solution in as few turns as cloning and with as many broad spectrum benefits as this. I am listening. Unless you want to kill all our citizens this point is moot.

You, again, are blatantly refusing to refute my arguments. I can only deduce you dislike clones not because they are a bad option (they are actually the best option at this point) but because they clash with your morals. This is frankly ridiculous. You should not be this closed-minded.
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>>1823385
But those can all be replaced by the appropriate robot.
We already have autodocs, so no need for clone doctors
Administrators can be a program just like our other ai
Scientists and engineers could also be ai operating at faster speesa than clones, operating at a computer speed, running constant simulations and brute forcing scientific development through procedurally generated concepts.
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>>1823388
We have a specialized robots facility, robotic zax, and a robot factory that outpaces whatever cloning facilities we have. It would be quicker to develop better cyber brains than to make cloning humans work, because it doesnt.

Except if we could make robot brains, a definite possibility as Ares existed, we would be able to develop computers that can do the scientific work load of 20 clones, brains and all. Why do you think all the sci-fi don't have labs filled with clones? Because that's inefficient.

It affords no benefits when we can develop things that don't require them to exist. Why do we need a large population? To do all the work we can automate anyways? Why would we not just automate it then?

Citizen slaves dumbass. Just because you aren't whipping them doesn't mean they are free. They don't know they can if you had your way.

YOu are blatantly just dismissing my arguments for a society based on robots not clones because you have a harfon for a video game and refuse to ever admit your wrong.

High processing capability computers, a technology that exists, can be made in our factory, and can outpace a half dozen clones in intellectual fields.
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>>1823385
And that is fine. We can weigh the merits of them when we have more info. However, the benefits of this far outweigh the drawbacks (like food, water and housing, right chap >>1823374 ?)

>>1823389
But we are not at the point of replacing everything and we are FAR from replacing researchers. Also, I dont think you understand how brute forcing works. To brute force a password of 4 spaces (assuming only numbers) takes 10000 tries and goes up by a factor of ten for every number. To "brute force" a scientific problem is madness. The reason computers IRL solve problems is because they have very narrowly defined objectives (which researchers do). The results are tested separately to confirm they work (and they rarely do). This is with the best computers we have nowadays. What you are talking about is a ZAX and Id love to get more but it is not easy. Cloning is far FAR easier.
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>>1823407
You know how scientists figure out how some proteins can fold? They put up a game on the internet and let all us chucklefucks try random shit until it worked. You have no idea how much science is just repetition, and small modifications to existing concepts. Which is something best suited for a computer.

Also your lock example is terrible as a computer can solve it in a minute while a person takes hours. Whixh is why people use computers on those sort of locks.

And we are just as far as making clone scientists dumbass. Why you seem to be focusing on a clearly inefficent goal is beyond me.
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>>1823405
And you dont get it.

WE. DONT. HAVE. CYBERBRAIN. TECH. ON. HAND:

What we do have just lying around is cloning. You blatantly refuse to refute my arguments. Any of them. Instead you hyperbole about a better bot which we dont have, multiple ZAXes, which we cant build and a cyberbrain, which is nowhere near achievable now.

And you know what the best part is? I agree with you. I am fully on board to automate and computerize everything. But you know what? We cant now. We dont have the means. And in case you still missed this, I am for cloning and the associated tech because it helps us improve everything we have. If a better option comes along I will advocate that. Until then, cloning takes nothing and gives to everything.

Why cant you get the big picture?

PS: I also like the name calling when you run out of arguments.
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>>1823413
WE DONT HAVE FUNCTIONAL HUMAN CLONE TECH EITHER. ITS THE SAME AMOUNT OF RESEARCH, FOR A BETTER SYSTEM.

so any time and resources spend on clones is time and resources spend on a less efficient system. So that is the big picture.
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>>1823412
And the protein folding was done by a very rigid system of instructions. Yes, if we feed them such data they absolutely can do it. What I am referring to is a situation where there is no ruleset. Where you have nothing but the objective and it is up to you to figure out how you achieve this. Computers are frankly horrible at this.

>>1823412
>Also your lock example is terrible as a computer can solve it in a minute while a person takes hours.
That is why the person uses the computer. I am not saying we revert to pen and paper but that the ingenuity factor is needed for advancement and computers cant offer this.

>>1823412
We have cloning vats.
We have good scientist.
We have cloned people.
We NEED TO clone alive people.

This is literally all we need to do, clone a bit better so they are alive. VS cyberbrains from scratch.
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>>1823417
We have literally cloned people. Literally. They even fooled a computer. How the fuck is this not something you understand??

We only need to improve upon this to clone alive people. That is literally it. A little shock to get the system going.

As to the enigmatic "resources", the only thing we would use is the free Diana research and some salient for food (which we have an overabundance of anyway, not to mention the Sanctuary is literally covered in green).
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>>1823420
There is always a jumping off point and computer tech capable of running high level simulations would be able to optimize far better than humans. Want to achieve a goal? Run a million simulations incorporating a million different possibilities, take the best, make small modifications, repeat.

Except work in cloning gets us a new person, its additive, while computers are multiplitive. Why make a dozen clones when we can make our existing stock twice as good. Efficiency goes up.

We have cloning vats that make brain dead people. Research is needed to make people that walk and talk and possess skills like you want. Just like research is needes to make superior processors.and we aren't working from scratch. We are working based on existing ccyber brain principles found in things like Ed-e.
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>>1823424
They were brain dead because brain cloning is difficult, which has been a problem forever. It isn't so simple as just give em a shock.

Vs the free zax research and some electricity. And clones would need to be fed, and clothed and given space and booze and entertainment. Its not just give em water and food, and time off and time to sleep. Your making people who have a wide array of needs vs a computer which has 1, that can operate 24/7, while clones would work 8 hours 5 or less.
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>>1823424
Also the general hadn't checked, and if they so they will find a deformed brain and different finger prints and scars.
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>>1823430
Did you know the computers they use for weather prediction are literally the size of buildings? So many variables running in such a big machine and it still makes mistakes and needs human interpretation for both input and output. This is in a system with, again, very strict parameters.

You are talking about a system with no rules and a lofty goal. It just doestn work that way (unless you go ZAX, which we cant and which has a brain anyway).

>>1823430
>Why make a dozen clones when we can make our existing stock twice as good.
And I am asking why do we need to limit ourselves to just one path? Do both. We have a robot center and a bio center. Let both do what they are good at and reap both the rewards.

>>1823430
>Just like research is needes to make superior processors.
I agree. And we should explore that. What I have been saying all along is that we should also explore other avenues like biotech. Can you really not see the benefit of more researchers, engineers and officers? If they were baseline human, would you send them away?

>>1823430
>We are working based on existing ccyber brain principles found in things like Ed-e.
Then give me an estimate of how long it would take to research that and I will support it. Because I see no problem with it, just as I see no problem with gene mods, clones and the elimination of hereditary disease. Why in the heck you do I still dont get. What is so morally incomprehensible for you?
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>>1823437
QM LITERALLY said they were perfect copies.

>>1823433
And so what differentiates our citizens from computers then? Would you remove all our people then? Kick them out? Or have them be lazing around for no reason? And if you start using the citizens, can you not use more of the for better results? This whole argument of yours is flawed.

And again: I AM NOT OPPOSING ROBOT RESEARCH, I AM FOR IT 100%. What I am against is wasting an opportunity like biotech because it conflicts with your morality.
>>
One advantage that clones have is that we can instill undying patriotism and loyalty to our country. Compare that to people we will add by conquering new lands, getting their loyalty will be hard and there always will be people who will be against our rule.


>>1823417

I feel like getting to workable clones/vat-grown people will be faster and easier with what we have at the moment than sentient synths.
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>>1823445
And you know computers that can simulate a consciousness in a ball the size of a basketball doesn't exist, right? But we have ed-e a fully functional, sentient ai with emotions. This aint the real world.

And we can research better cyber brains, which is what i have been saying this entire time. Yet you refuse to listen, putting your foot down on "we don't have the technology" despite the fact we discover new texhnology constantly.

Because those biological actions are better but to another use. Clones are a technological dead end and have no real reaso. To be persued. Especially when we start making cyber brains that can do their intellectual grunt work 10 times better.

If they were normal humans, accept them and integrate them. But we don't need to make more people.

To make functional clones as you want them we would need to be able to make clones that live, an action, clones that are enhanced to the maximum int, an action, memory implantation, another action, and. Then in utero memory implants, another action, and maybe an action to draw up the memories. So 5 actions.

Vs 3 turns of dedicated cyber brain research that outclasses clobes in every way.

I don't see how you are getting so stuck up on making clones. Its like wanting to make coal power plants vs nuclear. Just a waste of time and effort.
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>>1823457
This anon gets it.Especially this part:
>Compare that to people we will add by conquering new lands, getting their loyalty will be hard and there always will be people who will be against our rule.

>>1823457
>I feel like getting to workable clones/vat-grown people will be faster and easier with what we have at the moment than sentient synths.
Also very true.
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>>1823457
Its not synths though. Just very good computers capable of high level simulations, no consciousness which is all that is needed. Synths goes into the whole unnoticalbe stuff that isn't neccessary.

>>1823453
They were still born brain dead, which is a provlem that has to be solved. You can make all the clones you want, doesn't matter if when the bottle is opened a corpse comes out.

And why would we kick people out? There is a huge difference between helping people who already exist in the world and making more to fill invented roles.
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>>1823463
Except Im not saying developing synths, just high level supercomputers.
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>>1823461
Dude, you are literally so stuck up your own ass you cant read.

1) I am 100% for the advancement of robo tech.
2) The advances of gene mods and gene therapy are universally useful, even if for trading.
3) We already have the capability to alter memories.
4) According to your plan, the cloning part itself takes 1-2 actions, depending on if memories can be implanted during growth (notice in utero refers to "in the uterus" which will no be the case) vs 3 (I dont even get where this came from) for roborains.

So to summarize. You are blind to the advances of biotech because it offends you. Please try to see the benefits it will bring. If cloning is shit in the end and we can make robots that are better at everything, I will support making IG-88 droids until the sun goes dark. Until then, this is a good way to get specialist forces.

PLEASE READ TWICE AND TRY TO UNDERSTAND.
>>
>>1823461
>>1823474
So what's the problem here? Why can't we use the free biological actions to support our population for stuff like greater hero actions?
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>>1823469
>ts not synths though. Just very good computers capable of high level simulations, no consciousness which is all that is needed.
So you want to build M.A.R.Go.T.? That just goes back to ZAX territory.
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>>1823475
Agreed, there is no issue. Just maximise the research we have and improve our citizens. If we get to a point where cloning is useful do that, if it becomes clear it never will, look for something else.
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>>1823474
Im not saying ignore biotech. Learn to read. I'm saying advancing cloning technology and using it to supplement our population is both inefficient and pointless. Im all for gene mods that make people smarter and better, and whatnot, but to say clones are in any way the best answer ro any problem is absurd.

It could be 1 action for robo brains. I left a margin of error. we made gravitational propulsion in 1 action with nothing to work with.

And I like how when you can't make a counter arguement you just say LEARN TO READ like its an arguement.

>>1823475
We can, im just saying clones are not an answer to any of our problems, as superior answers exist within our reach.
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>>1823477
If the old world made ZAX without brains, then so can we. You act like were going into the far unkown when we are just replicating technology found in the municipal sector.
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File: The_Cloning_Vats.png (1 KB, 215x215)
1 KB
1 KB PNG
>not wanting to double our population every turn


"We shall take only the greatest minds, the finest soldiers,

the most faithful servants. We shall multiply them a thousandfold

and release them to usher in a new era of glory."

—Colonel Corazon Santiago,
“The Council of War”
>>
>>1823484
>>1823480
>>1823457
>>1823487
>>1823491
Whew. Getting emotional here are we?
Anyways, why can't we try cloning important or critical individuals for those hero actions? A lot of the benefits is taking some of the best aspects from people we have like the Courier and then making copies that aren't ridiculously unpredictable like him.
Make like 10 hero units and we've already got ways to deal with a number situations.
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>>1823484
And yet you fail to read yet again.

If cloning turns out to be shit and not worth the effort. We can clone dumb animals and set up a zoo. If it turns out to be good, we get free specialists. Regardless of this, we will advance robo tech. If robotech proves to be better than clones sooner than clones, we use that. If not, we use clones until we can switch to a better solution. I also like how the robobrain research is also suddenly only 1 turn.

And, I try again.

If cloning is shit, I will agree with whatever option is better, be it mindwiping hostiles, robots or holograms. What I dont agree with is the offhand dismissal of a technology simply because it doesnt seem nice to you.

>>1823484
>you can't make a counter arguement
Shoot, give me the bulletpoints and I will answer in return. Just dont write stupid shit like "resources" or "we cant use them".
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>>1823493
Also a very valid point.

>>1823491
Another great point.

>>1823487
The only ones I know were alien tech infused. And that opens up another can of worms. Not opposing it but you have to realize this is not done in one turn. ESPECIALLY if you want a ZAX-equivalent.
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>>1823493
Didn't our Brain say he doesn't want more Couriers running around?
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>>1823494
Im not the qm, i can only guess. Buttsince its Only 1 concept it would go by quicker than the multi-concept perfecr cloning that you want.

Cybernetic computing is easier to achieve and far more productive than cloning

Anything a clone can do, a robot can do better.

Clones are limited by their fleshy abilities while cybernatic computing has a much higher ability threshhold, as soldiers, scientists or administrators.

Which is the only
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>>1823493
>A lot of the benefits is taking some of the best aspects from people we have like the Courier and then making copies that aren't ridiculously unpredictable like him.
>>1823499
Not Couriers, people with the Courier's stats. If that's too powerful, then his stats in certain areas.

>>1823500
>Buttsince
lol
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>>1823493
You want 10 Couriers running around...we didn't trust our own brain at one point, and you want us to trust copies of ourself? Riiiight.

Biological tech isn't like robotic tech - there are possibilities that cannot be easily by hard coding.

I'm very much against the cloning argument. Not for any moral reason, but because I think the risks, potential problems and resource requirements outweighs the potential benefits.
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>>1823496
Its the same point you have been making and i have been refuting as inefficient.

>>1823496
Margot is not alien infused. And we can make alien metal, so it doesn't matter anyways.
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>>1823503
>Not Couriers, people with the Courier's stats. If that's too powerful, then his stats in certain areas.
I'd prefer the latter.
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>>1823511
Or we can just build terminators.
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>>1823500
>Im not the qm, i can only guess.
Conjecture

>>1823500
>Cybernetic computing is easier to achieve and far more productive than cloning
Conjecture

>>1823500
>Anything a clone can do, a robot can do better.
I agree, in as much as the physical. If we get a droid with the same mental acuity of a person I will happily support that. Until then this is a reason to invest in human augmentation.

>>1823500
>Clones are limited by their fleshy abilities while cybernatic computing has a much higher ability threshhold, as soldiers, scientists or administrators.
Agreed, and as we have seen with the ZAX, exeedingly expensive. When we get a portable and affordable solution (like a human brain, for exampe) I will also agree to use them everywhere. Until then we are stuck with either a ZAX, a brain or a dumb robot.

>>1823504
>the risks, potential problems and resource requirements
List your concerns.
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>>1823508
Yes, margot is a step away from a ZAX, so not cheap in the slightest.

And I think you will agree that alien metal and alien supercomputers are two different things.

>>1823511
Agreed.

>>1823517
Thats basically either combat bots, which we have, or assassin bots (for which we lack the requiered Arnie-capable cheap brain-substitute). I agree with this but it is not feasible at the moment.
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>>1823522
Which is why we research making artificial brains. Do you not read anything I say, or do you just here arguments against clones as white noise.

Clones, like anyone else are loyal antil they aren't. Everything is fine until we are betrayed by a clone who wishes to have not been made with false memories to do our bidding

Biology and neurology are very abstract sciences and biologically creating a perfectly obedient free thinker is impossible.

Again, clones take up more continuous reaource input for less output than computers.
>>
>>1823504
>>1823503

>>1823517
>>1823522
Yeah, we'd just end up with Coursers or similar design.
>>
>>1823527
>Which is why we research making artificial brains. Do you not read anything I say, or do you just here arguments against clones as white noise.
Dude, right back at you. Where have I been against this

>>1823527
>Clones, like anyone else are loyal antil they aren't. Everything is fine until we are betrayed by a clone who wishes to have not been made with false memories to do our bidding
That is why we watch them like our own citizens. They are not perfect and neither is anyone else. The same problems arise with the rest of our researchers yet we use them all the same. I would actually argue they are more loyal since we gave them life. They would not exist without us and although the memories are artificial that doesnt mean they werent genuine or that their future life is somehow less meaningful.

>>1823527
>Biology and neurology are very abstract sciences and biologically creating a perfectly obedient free thinker is impossible.
yet, for all the impossibilities of tesla tubes, FEV and thinking machines this seems impossible to you? I quote:
>>1823461
>And you know computers that can simulate a consciousness in a ball the size of a basketball doesn't exist, right? But we have ed-e a fully functional, sentient ai with emotions. This aint the real world.

>>1823527
>Again, clones take up more continuous reaource input for less output than computers.
So do citizens and so do our current researchers. This is only an argument if you want to never accept new citizens or even wipe out the ones we have.

PS, please link to arguments, makes it easier to respond. I also see you have dropped a few, which makes me think this is not something you have thougt through.
>>
>>1823522
In the context of cloning altered humans:
- Inefficient resource use
- Problems that crop up during the research stage
- The issue of whose genetic stock to use
- To use them in a reasonable amount of time, we'd have to use growth amplifiers which would be coupled with fake memories. Would likely lead to behaviour problems or other developmental issues
- The issue of clone rights in our society
- The issue of the rights of those who the clones are based on

Numerous issues, no easy answers

Better for us to focus on the areas we know, namely robotics
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>>1823546
- Inefficient resource use
We would need nutrients and power. The whole Sanctuary is green and we have salient tech so not an issue. The power consumption, since Sanctuary has a generator, is also not a problem (enough to generate steel, as QM said)

- Problems that crop up during the research stage
The research stage is really the only time when we have to invest anything into this project. On account of this being free research I see no problem. As to problems, that is also the case with any other avenue of research so not really an issue.

- The issue of whose genetic stock to use
The best we have, add to this genemods and implants and we have a pretty good package.

- To use them in a reasonable amount of time, we'd have to use growth amplifiers which would be coupled with fake memories. Would likely lead to behaviour problems or other developmental issues
Since we cloned the mechanicus 5 I dont see speed being any kind of issue. As to memories, we can currently already play with memories so adding them when they are grown is not a problem. So developmental issues are also not a thing.

- The issue of clone rights in our society
Same as that of citizens. If the problem of individuality is the issue we can make all the clones look different. Not that big of a deal.

- The issue of the rights of those who the clones are based on
Since they will not be losing anything and will infact be selected because of their excellence I see no issue. It should be an honor to be selected.

>>1823546
>Numerous issues, no easy answers
I dont agree. There are no issues with this besides the time spent on research. Since we have that for free anyway I see no problem with it.
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>>1821233
>Didn't their parents come from a vault and they were born outside?
The implication I got was that they were still living in the Vault when the Legion attacked.

Also I'd point out that by your logic there can't be any prime humans left in the world outside of Vault 101 and possibly one in the Boston region. Seeing as they've all sent people out and shit and thus ain't therefore going to be pure. Hell even the Enclave would be going non-prime by your logic.

>>1821234
>seemed to want.
Hell no. I don't like Unity. I never trust Hivemind's because their nature is too alien and shit. I respect that Unity has done good by us so I have no problem working with them but I feel that that would be too much.

>And we are not forcing Diana into getting her people to do that. We're not treating them like cattle. They aren't murder rapists.
True.

>>1821306
>Look, if I make a cow where its only ambition in life is to be someone's meal is it wrong to eat it? Was it wrong to create it?
No but that is an oversimplification of the issue and inaccurate since a cow has never wanted that.

You are talking about making sentient individuals that exist solely for your purposes, if someone made you and made it so you only wanted to eat fucking chicken all your days I think you might come to resent them at the very least.

>Who are you to say that they're nothing or less than other people just for having been engineered, you fucknut?
Except that is my point. They are people and you'd essentially be enslaving them!

>That aside, no I wasn't suggesting living through 30 people's lives I was suggesting stitching together the memories/experiences from 30 peoples lives that are pertinent to being a soldier or being a researcher.
Except that is my point. They'd still be experiencing 30 different unique viewpoints and that is an insane thing to do to someone.

>Are the Crimson Dragoons they've been raised in a particular way since birth lesser than other people because they were trained?
No seeing as they agreed to that and can drop out.

>Goddamn but you're a cunt if you actually believe anything you just said.
Of course I do, because if you told me I was made solely so someone could have a fucking physicist to research shit for them I'd break their nose.

>>1821353
Because that isn't what they are suggesting. They want to clone someone, insert particular memories and then force that chimera of beings to research for them. I have no problem with what you are suggesting because that is just accelerating population growth which I am fine with since it's essentially something I proposed earlier.
>>
What is the latest argument about?
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>>1823539
>I would actually argue they are more loyal since we gave them life. They would not exist without us and although the memories are artificial that doesnt mean they werent genuine or that their future life is somehow less meaningful.
Except artificial by defenition means less genuine. And if they believe you forces memories on them to force them onto a path they may wholely reject you. And they won't trust you for creating them. They never asked to be made. And if they are so smart as to be good scientists, they are smart enough to realize you made them for the sake of taking advavtage of them.

>yet, for all the impossibilities of tesla tubes, FEV and thinking machines this seems impossible to you? I quote:

I want a computer with massive amounts of processing power, capable of holding a consciousness, but i don't want the consciousness. You want to take a brain and program it like it was a robot, yet still retain free will, but also an ingrained sense of loyalty. You can see how what you want is much more complicated than what I want.

>So do citizens and so do our current researchers. This is only an argument if you want to never accept new citizens or even wipe out the ones we have.
We would be accepting new citizens based on a moral obligation to help the people who are weak and needy. It would be less efficient than pure machines, but when have I ever been about maximum efficiency at the cost of morality? Never.

> I also see you have dropped a few, which makes me think this is not something you have thougt through
A lot of specific arguments to rei force the main points. To include them all would ve to clutter everything up.
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>>1823562
Whether or not it's okay to try out cloning.
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>>1823567
Whether it is okay to try out cloning adults filled with false memories to be put to work as you see fit.

Way to simplify the argument.
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>>1823567
>>1823571
Which is cloning, yeah.
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>>1823561
So your point boils down to the clones feeling as if they are slaves?
This is not the case. As has been stated before, they would have all the rights of citizens and not be forced to do anything. The fact we give them knowledge that others have to work years to get (which is also a point to add these experiences to all our citizens) and the proposition of a cushy job is far from bad. They would literally have one of the nicest living spaces in the wasteland. As to having 30 people living inside your head it is frankly to dramatic. If that were the case we would work to assemble package that does not result in schizophrenia.

And again, if someone gave you life you would be angry at them? As opposed to all the children born into the wastes who have to suffer and die because their parents were killed, starved or eaten? This is pure conjecture.

>>1823561
>They want to clone someone, insert particular memories and then force that chimera of beings to research for them. I have no problem with what you are suggesting because that is just accelerating population growth which I am fine with since it's essentially something I proposed earlier.
So you would clone kids, make them go through childhood and force them to research shit for us then? Or go to the army? Again, conjecture.
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>>1823573
Except the specifics of the argument chamge everything.

Its like calling developing super anthrax "immunology research"
>>
>>1823573
>>1823577
What else would cause a long, drawn-out shitstorm about cloning?
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>>1821371
>Fucking how would it be terrible?
I don't know why don't you tell me why you think someone would quite happily accept being stitched together from lectures and fucking textbook lessons? Why they'd be fine with having no actual memory of being happy or relaxing or family or friends or love or anything.

It's like a giant concoction of nihilistic suicide potential.

>An individual is an individual no matter how many people might've had the same experiences.
Except they wouldn't be an individual they'd be a clone with the same memories and experiences as another 50000(....000) others we'd thrown together for other projects.

>Why not implant memories if it'll help them OR us? What's so special about naturally acquiring experiences that's not present in just knowing the shit beforehand because of your implant?
That is an entirely different point and I expressed a willingness for something like that (>>1821219).

>>1821385
True.

>>1821422
Actually that is a major point, we had this discussion previously and I advised using robots to automate every job. You know what people said? "Fuck no, we want people doing shit"! What you are proposing right now is the exact same concept but with clones.

I agree it might be a decent idea for immigrants and shit but then we run into the problem of them potentially leaving with this useful information or learning something they shouldn't.

>>1821467
That I could agree to.

>>1821494
Jesus H. Christ you are like a walking horror machine. Imagine living know that your mother never actually said I love you to you, that you never celebrated any of your birthdays, that you never went swimming and all that shit. Imagine every experience, good and bad, that ever happened to you not being yours but like a vivid dream and then imagine knowing that someone did it to you.

That is what you are proposing and that is before mentioning the clones all sharing a childhood which sounds terrible.

>>1821549
>Its the wellbeing of our imaginary dudes and future superpower status at stake here, someone's got to advocate for them.
And someone has to be the voice that says "hey this is pointlessly done when we can just have a robot do it and jesus why would we ever do any of this what the fuck".

>suggesting that engineered people are less than non-engineered people.
I never said that, that is what you took what I said to mean.

>>1821582
I disagree. My problem is the concept of treating them so coldly and robotically which is why I'd agree with you up to now.

Fact is that I might tolerate this compromise but...I'd need to see how diverse you'd get these childhoods.

>>1821605
I'd point out in regards to the population that we can just expand into Wyoming and such, where there are no unified nations and such yet but there are many towns and tribes and then absorb them with our superior technology and promises of security / free food, medicine and housing in return for labour.
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>>1823564
>Except artificial by defenition means less genuine. And if they believe you forces memories on them to force them onto a path they may wholely reject you. And they won't trust you for creating them. They never asked to be made. And if they are so smart as to be good scientists, they are smart enough to realize you made them for the sake of taking advavtage of them.
Then they are free to be useful at something else. And again conjecture.

>>1823564
>I want a computer with massive amounts of processing power, capable of holding a consciousness, but i don't want the consciousness. You want to take a brain and program it like it was a robot, yet still retain free will, but also an ingrained sense of loyalty. You can see how what you want is much more complicated than what I want.
Literally synths. Also, a computer capable of consciousness and that seems not far fetched to you? Please. Double standard.

>>1823564
>We would be accepting new citizens based on a moral obligation to help the people who are weak and needy. It would be less efficient than pure machines, but when have I ever been about maximum efficiency at the cost of morality? Never.
So clones/synths are not worthy of being made? We cuddle idiot farmers but making productive citizens is immoral? You are literally building a society of layabouts.

>>1823564
>A lot of specific arguments to rei force the main points. To include them all would ve to clutter everything up.
Except those happen to be arguments I bebunked.

>>1823571
Way to spread your feelings instead of facts. They would be citizens with special skills who would have all rights and be useful in all walks of life. They would not, however, be slaves or manservants.
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>>1823571
>>1823573

Fascinating. It would be a great way to produce brains. Pretty useless for most other things save better research and medical applications... Actually, yeah we need better cloning
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>>1823590
So all your arguments boil down to conjecture about how they would feel. This is frankly absurd. With the ability to alter memories we can instill in them a wonderlust and optimism instead of a want for suicide (although I am sure you would want to). So everything you are against we can either avoid or are literally not a problem to anybody besides your conscience.
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>>1823603
And I am saying lets explore that option in addition to robotics research, which many find somehow objectionable.
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>>1823595
>Then they are free to be useful at something else. And again conjecture.
Except there are obvious paths you want them to take thatbmeans they are not so free to make these decision. And that is pure conjecture. No facts.

>Literally synths. Also, a computer capable of consciousness and that seems not far fetched to you? Please. Double standard.
Read what i said. I want computers with massive processing power that would be capable of holding a consciousness as a comparison to the necessary processing power. Not literally synths. There would be no consciousness involved. And anyways it isnt that far fetched. Ede has a consciousness and hes an eyebot.

So clones/synths are not worthy of being made? We cuddle idiot farmers but making productive citizens is immoral? You are literally building a society of layabouts.
No they are not. And no we are not. People can work as they want. They won't be the best at it but they can do it. And conjecture based in feelings- you cam't know it would be a society of layabouts. Star trek has people doing things for tbe sake of doing them and having the experience, which is what i aim for.

>Way to spread your feelings instead of facts. They would be citizens with special skills who would have all rights and be useful in all walks of life. They would not, however, be slaves or manservants
Way to spread feelings over fact. They would be indoctrinated slaves with their life paths laid out for them, created for their labour.
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>>1823606
But. how? This can lead to so many good things for our people.
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>>1821760
>>1821782
I'd give you a response but >>1821860 puts it pretty brilliantly.

>>1821851
>No, I start using personal attacks when it's clear the other person doesn't have real reasons to hold their position so logical argument isn't worthwhile.
So your solution instead of convincing them, is to insult, degrade and act like a thug in hopes of cattling your opponent?

>>1821954
I think you are beginning to see my problem with this guy and looking at most of his posts past here, I am certain you can see it.

>>1822351
Yeah at this point, I think we can agree to oppose him on this shit. He's grown belligerent.

>>1822744
>What is it again with the overabundance of moralfaggotry. If we didn't do the "bad" things we have done we would literally have nothing.
Well ignoring how these clones are incredibly inefficient usage of resources, going to prove incredibly unpopular with our people most likely and all that shit?

>No Think Tank, no ZAX, no second ZAX, no Enclave.
Kinda wrong, Wrong, true and wrong.

>These things need to happen if we are going to survive. Why are you whining about it?
Because this isn't in any way needed?

>>1822932
>A little bad for a lot of good.
Except to me it seems like a some bad for some good. Especially when we can make robots do it and shit.

>Not to mention the scientific advances.
Which we can achieve without cloning.

>And if we get the tesla teleporter signal working we can use all the clone commandos we want. Even implant them with bombs so the bodies dont get discovered. We can use this to train the brains in non-stop VR until the bodies are ready and then just replace the bodies when they get lost. Saves time on training and affords extra experience as well as extra lives to the soldier.
I admit that such a thing could be useful but I fail to see why you wouldn't use robots or such. Given a few years we can easily expand enough to gain a population capable of supporting such units without serious loss. I respect you want to use clones to avoid a potential manpower problem but I fail to see this being useful when we can get more people by expansion more easily with additional benefits. Also it doesn't save our soldiers from death since they'd need to be constantly streaming their memories out for that to work and even then we run into the SOMA problem of discontinuous consciousness.

Still, if you can convince everyone else or at least enough? I'll...I'll not oppose it. I won't support it being expanded massively but a few expendable squads of special forces would be nice.

>>1823093
I could probably agree to that. Although I'd advise that it might not work as well as you hope.

Still, I am only one man. If enough support is gathered, I can do nothing.
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>>1823632
What cloning? Not really. Not compared to the alternative.
Robotics? No one is arguing against that. Except maybe maiking synths, which i agree with.
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>>1823637
replacement limbs and organs.
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>>1823642
Yeah that's fine. The issue is cloning living breathing people with preprogrammed memories to serve as warm bodies, when robotics makes such things obselete.

Its not an issue of cloning, but the method that he wants to do.
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>>1823635
I disagree with your last comment. We should not be making clones with implanted memories at all. Formative year memories are so important to self realization that forcing decisions on them irreconcilably violates their individuality. And what if they are a pacifist? Or an artist? This cookie cutter method of making people doesn't give them the best chance to be who they truly are.
>>
NCR somehow managed to get clone troopers without them going insane and killing themselves. They actually seemed rather content and well-adjusted.

If NCR co do it, why can't we?
>>
>>1823646
I don't see the point in using them for that, robots make much better meat shields and are generally superior. Soldiery is a honored profession for our citizens and i am not keen on replacing our normal people.
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>>1823656
The NCR also genocides people, so they may not be the best example.

And their clones could be a slave army with no choice but to obey which is something we want to avoid. We don't know how the NCR does what it does, but to say it is any one method for sure is just conjecture.
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>>1823215
>You do realise we have a handful of people right? And that of those, only a handful are in the military.
To be fair we have 100 odd people in the military, not counting companions (15~), child soldiers (40), the Chinese (unknown), super mutants (20), night-kin(20) and any new converts and such we get. If we were to turn them all into TACTs we could easily sustain an army into the thousands in terms of command computation. Even before we consider the prior proposed non-sentient AI TACTs which MAJOR recommended.

>To get them to the point of being a god officer takes years and years of service, training and experience.
Funny, ours are counted as experienced already.

>Now imagine this: Instead of all that we clone the best and brightest we have. We give them all the knowledge and experience they need to be soldiers doctors whatever and we can be certain they have no affiliation with our enemies. If we treat them like humans and not like meat I dont see why they would either. So the point is this: We can print capable and excellent citizens instead of having to rely on outside factors. Why would we not use this?
True but I see no reason we couldn't do the same with ordinary humans.

>Not cannon fodder. Specialists behind the scenes. There is absolutely no reason to waste citizens on the front lines. Bots are replaceable, cheap and pack a great punch. Humans are for C&C and specialist tasks.
Jesus we actually agree on something.

>Do you not want genemods for our citizens? Better radiation resistance, STR, INT boosts? If you do, we go that way.
Not really seeing as they'd be a seperate research from cloning.

>And what else do you want to do with cloning vats?
I stated this previously. Allow homosexual couples (heterosexuals too if they want) the chance to use them for children by use of a centralised gene-bank where they can donate eggs and sperm for use in fertilisation in return for getting a child.

>>1823249
Nothing, it was mentioned, discussed, proved, possible and seemingly forgotten that we can take brains for TACTs and ZAX's from the dead if we are fast enough which against the melee focused Legion would be easy. So long as we have a medical robot to gather the brains somewhere nearby.

>>1823294
See PAM from Fallout 4. That is possible without using a human brain. Imagine what we can do with a human brain.

As to smart command robots: the TACTs suffice in decent ratio but I take it you are talking about stealthy things?

Then consider that we can just put a brain on an assaultron and call it a day.

>>1823413
>WE. DONT. HAVE. CYBERBRAIN. TECH. ON. HAND:
Actually we do. Have had for quite some time.
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>>1823575
>So your point boils down to the clones feeling as if they are slaves?
When they are forced to do a job without any choice and are built from the ground up for it? Aye I think they might begin to regard themselves as slaves.

>As has been stated before, they would have all the rights of citizens and not be forced to do anything.
I'd point out I am responding to this shit as I read through the thread. That was before the clone-side of the argument moderated their position.

>And again, if someone gave you life you would be angry at them?
Quite possibly depending on their reasons and what I then had to do.

>As opposed to all the children born into the wastes who have to suffer and die because their parents were killed, starved or eaten?
Oh yes because clearly not doing that makes us paragons of justice and glorious in all our doings. Just because we've not done something bad doesn't make what we have done good and I fail to see what you mean by this, we aren't making the people we made suffer and that somehow means they should love serving us?

>So you would clone kids, make them go through childhood and force them to research shit for us then? Or go to the army?
No, they'd be exactly the same as any other citizen. Raised by a loving family, in an actual home, going to actual school, making actual decisions and deciding their own futures.

They'd decide to be researchers or soldiers or engineers or anything else rather than your dictated careers.

>>1823604
>With the ability to alter memories we can instil in them a wonderlust and optimism instead of a want for suicide
Oh brilliant, why don't ya just make them want to suck the Courier's cock while you are at it? Or how about making them hate the NCR? Or the MLA? Or never doubt any of our decisions?

>So everything you are against we can either avoid or are literally not a problem to anybody besides your conscience.
Says you, you've just suggested controlling their outlook on life and their emotions. Which is a horrifying concept.

>>1823654
I agree but if they can somehow convince the majority and get the votes, it's not like I am going to argue pointlessly.
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>>1823621
>Except there are obvious paths you want them to take thatbmeans they are not so free to make these decision. And that is pure conjecture. No facts. >pure conjecture
Jop. Just because your parents want you to study law doesnt mean you cant do history.

>>1823564
>You want to take a brain and program it like it was a robot, yet still retain free will, but also an ingrained sense of loyalty. You can see how what you want is much more complicated than what I want.
>>1823595
>Literally synths.
>>1823621
>Read what i said.

>>1823621
>People can work as they want. They won't be the best at it but they can do it.
Same goes for clones and synths. Moot point.

>>1823621
>They would be indoctrinated slaves with their life paths laid out for them, created for their labour.
Again, we wont force them. if they want to be soldiers instead we can add soldier xp to them. They can choose for themselves.

>>1823661
Again, conjecture to a valid point.
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>>1823691
>Says you, you've just suggested controlling their outlook on life and their emotions. Which is a horrifying concept.
So it all comes down to this.

Again you moralfags want to keep things from us. At first you argued that cloning was a dead end, when it became appearant that it wasnt you resorted to conjecture about clone feelings and rights, when I said they CAN actually choose for themselves you boil down to "it not feeling right to you". For fucks sake this is a system that works with the Institute, where the synths actually THANK YOU for making their existence possible. Literally grateful to you. They work towards a common goal and all are happy. And they live in a society with no free choice. We are offering all that on top of free choice. Those who dont like being a soldier can be cooks instead. Whaever floats their boat. And you are literally incapable of seeing the possibilities, citing other options, none of which I actually disagree with, as some sort of holy messiah, as if sentient machines have no such moral problems attached. You fail to read and understand what I write and then you spew what-if scenarios that make it seem cloning somehow automatically makes you want to kill yourself and hate life. Instead of being cooped up in your little corner try and see the possibilities. Instead of your world view understand that people, clones and synths included, are different with different wants and needs. And we are prepared to accept that. It is you who are not prepared to accept that what you hold dear in your heart as the moral choice may actually not be all that moral.
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>>1823723
>Jop. Just because your parents want you to study law doesnt mean you cant do history.
Except you would be forcing people to vet law degrees. Which is different drom choosing a history degree.

>Way to spread your feelings instead of facts. They would be citizens with special skills who would have all rights and be useful in all walks of life. They would not, however, be slaves or manservants

Literally what are you saying? I just said it won't br like synths, it is just an example of the desired processing power. I can want a computer that runs skyrim on 1080p, doesn't mean i want to play skyrim

>Same goes for clones and synths. Moot point.
Excpet that is making people for the sake of inefficient work. That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

>Again, we wont force them. if they want to be soldiers instead we can add soldier xp to them. They can choose for themselves.
Except they don't because they have a bunch of xp they don't want. How thick are you?

>Again, conjecture to a valid point.
Not at all valid. We know they have clones, but know nothing else. No assumption we make is valid, Mr, "everything that disagrees with me is conjecture"
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>>1823741
Wow. Buttbalsted aren't you?

You keep saying "conjecture" like you aren't doing it either. Everything we're talkimg abojt hasn'tvhappened, so its all conjecture, dumbass.

And THE LITERAL SLAVES thabk you for enslaving them, so its alright. Not as if those who know better are constantly running away to the railroad, and the ones who stay are miserable. No free synth fights for the institute.

And you're going on about ignoring your argumnets when you do so just as much.
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>>1823741
I am a moralfag but I am for clones/vatgrown people. I honestly don't see anything unethical about them.

I don't really think existential crisis will be a problem.

Making clones doesn't mean they are automatically slaves. If that was the truth then every single person who finishes state schools in the world are slaves.
Same argument can be applied to sentient AI and synths. If clones are slaves by default then AI is double that by default.
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>>1823741
>as if sentient machines have no such moral problems attached.
No one said anything about sentient machines. That's all just you strawmanning like a motherfucker. I jave repeatedly argued for non-sebtiebt logic engines.

Instead of your world view understand that people, clones and synths included, are different with different wants and needs
And so you will force them to have the wants and needs you wish of them. Not really a cohesive argument.

>... seem cloning somehow automatically makes you want to kill yourself and hate life
And you seem pretty firm about how being clones would not have any effect on people, and they will all take having a fake childhood in stride, based on nothing but conjecture. What ifs are valid arguments or else no one hears other possibilities of what could happen.

Dumbass.
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>>1823763
There is a difference between state school and forced memory impplantation. There is a lot of personal freedom in state schools. What subjects to take, how much effort to put in. He is suggesting forcing his point of view on a group of people.
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>>1817457
>Robotic research
>Continue on tunneler robots

The CEO, with the help of MAJOR and RND, militarize the Subterrine prototype.

They have come up with the best design yet, further designs will likely now be improvements in size and weaponry rather than functionality.

-Communications are possible via robot heading close to the surface. A few meters below ground, the Subterrine will send a penetrating drill upward which carries a small periscope high performance camera and can morph into a radar dish to recieve further orders, connect to GPS, or relay info to and from to Eye-Bots on the field. Alternatively, it can surface to deploy eyebots (and of course robot attack teams)
-Internal gyroscopes are able to determine orientation (up, down, left, right) though geographical position is difficult and relies on knowledge taken from the surface. Echoboy and Deep Penetration Radar can help detect large objects underground and determine altitude as an alternative means positioning
-Besides the robot transport Variant, (Subterrine APC), the ZAX designs a new variant. The Attack Subterrine. The robot transport space is replaced with a Torpedo hold of of a few large Drill Torpedos. These miniature drillers are hooked up to a wire and fired onto a target using an internal guidance system. Echoboy and Radar guidance is possible, but it is far more accurate when linked up with surface visualization of the target to ensure it fires directly where it needs to
-The Alien Battery version needs to be periodically recharged, while the Fission Battery version does not.
-Low AI versions and smarter TACT variants are doable. A human transport version is possible too, though this comes with obvious risks.
-It is armed with light LAER gun ports for surface defense against infantry and light vehicles

The ZAX says the platform is now complete, and ready for testing on the field.

Today is a busy day for me so I'll drop this update, but gonna be away though.
>>
>>1823775
>Today is a busy day for me so I'll drop this update, but gonna be away though.

;_;
>>
>>1823757
So the institute working is not an example of the system? Yet the supposed fact that all clones will either kill themselves or run away is fact? Bitch please. If it is all conjecture either way then why are you arguing with me? Just accept my points and let QM decide what the synths feel like when we get there. Or is the possibility of them actually being fine so scary to you youd rather they not exist in the first place? All the points I made about the advances of biotech and cloning. None of those have been adequately opposed. The only ground you find is theorizing about feelings. If my theories (and the institute as an example, albeit not a perfect one) is not good enough for yoy then let it be. We wait for QM to rule on this. And to every other actual point I have agreed to. Computer tech? GO Cyberbrains? GO. The only argument you have left is the feelings of the clones. And if imposing your views on them and taking that as truth is not conjecture to you then you are frankly a few marbles short.
>>
>>1823775
Oh yes!
It creates a tunnel as it digs now right?
>>
>>1823786
Not this version, but that one is possible too. The ZAX just needed this action to round off the commnication difficulties, but new versions are indeed possible.
>>
>>1823803
what is the effective range of the underground torpedoes and how strong are they?
>>
>>1823785
>So the institute working is not an example of the system? Yet the supposed fact that all clones will either kill themselves or run away is fact? Bitch please. If it is all conjecture either way then why are you arguing with me? Just accept my points and let QM decide what the synths feel like when we get there.

I don't know about you but I don't want to emulate a literal slave economy.
And we know how the synths feel. That's why the railroad exists. Just because they arent constantly whining about freedom doesn't mean they should be enslaved.

> All the points I made about the advances of biotech and cloning. None of those have been adequately opposed
No one is refuting the benefits of biotech, straw man mcgee. The argument is about creating clone slave soldiers or scientists.

If my theories (and the institute as an example, albeit not a perfect one) is not good enough for yoy then let it be
're using a sstate where slaves are menial laboirers to justify one where slaves are i tellectual labourers. I hope you understand intellectuals are more of a wild card then floor sweepers.
>>
>>1823741
I never argued it was a dead end. I argued it was a waste of resources. The difference is important.

When I saw that wouldn't convince you, I moved on the next set of arguments: you've made them now and this is the list of problems to solve.

And you kinda did: you acknowledged that fucking enslaving them by making them live like you want and giving them no choice in terms of career wouldn't work out. So you revised. You stated you'd let them have a "full" life while learning everything they should and being given the ability to choose their own careers and shit. Which I have no problem with.


As to the institute? A place which mostly uses non-sentient second / first generation synths? Who have a massive problem with their 3rd generation synths hating their lives (where they are forced into certain roles) and destroying their entire place potentially? Oh aye clearly they are the best example you could have chosen.

As to the sentient machines, we ain't gonna have many of those (combat AI's aren't exactly emotional things and aren't going to be raising problems in that regard) and to be frank I have little problem with it.


As to everything else you wrote, fuck off with that dumb bull shit. I've seen the possibilities of this fucking path and I ain't pleased to see it followed (ignoring under the previously mentioned conditions).
>>
>>1823775
Nice. We can use this for assaulting the Divide base and anywhere else we need to.


Also we should see about using them to send a squad of Loader robots into each of the NV Vaults we know aren't inhabited in preparation for taking over the region. We can restore use to the Vaults and link them up / make use of their power for the obvious benefits ahead of time.

Plus it'll give us additional points to teleport in additional robots and shit.
>>
>>1823837
Vault 34 should be good. Too much radiation for the legions to camp there.

Vault 22 may be far enough away, and have a fearsome enough reputation, even after the spores were burned out.

Vault 19 and 11 would probably have a legion presence, due to lack of dangers inside.
>>
>>1823850
True but knowing them they'd just strip most of the metal and such they could and leave. Plus they'd have left the reactors alone most likely.
>>
>>1823837
We'll first need the Tunnel creating version.
>>
>>1823837
>>1823850


>send tunneler bots to vaults
>build/restore the nuclear power plant
>build teleportation pad
>fully restore the vault
>send in more robots to prepare for fullblown invasion

We should also do this with caves and other isolated places.


Guys, can we start working towards conquering New Vegas once we get finish beefing up our industry (we still need to automate resource gathering)
>>
>>1823853
I dunno. Secret underground garrisons with beds provided already? Sounds like a place to stay.

Though we could check it out. Maybe the echoboys are sensitive enough to detect noises from any guests to the vaults.
>>
>>1823812
>>1823824
And again, we are back to "it feels wrong". The very notion of something not aligning with your opinions is so fundamentally wrong with you I am starting to believe you are actually incapable of empathy, despite of what you write.

As to "resource waste" I have, again, yet to see a valid counter-argument. All you are saying is "I dont like it because it conflicts with my fragile sense of right and wrong." Any other possibility seems so alien to you as to be offhand dismissed.

Tell me, are you actually so far up your own asses or are you trolling me? Because this is unreal.
>>
>>1823859
Agreed.

>>1823860
True but the'd struggle to keep them from collapsing and shit.

We should still check.
>>
>>1823859
Agreed.
>>
>>1823865
How are you thus dense?

We as people know the institure has a rogue synth problem. Which invalidates any concern that people would just live their lives

We know that building computers is cheaper in the long run for literally any job that a clone could do.

We know that computers are better than clones in any job a clone can do

Thus We know that cloned workers are a waste of time and resources, no matter what job they do.

And all you see is "it is wrong because feelings?"

You are either the illiterate, or the dumbest person to walk the earth.
>>
>>1823881
I cannot comprehend how many times you were dropped but I am guessing it was triple figures. Do you understand short and long term? What those words mean? Can you even read? Do you understand what I have been saying? Let me go over it once more. Maybe repetition will get through that thickass skull of yours.

I want robot tech to advance. Get this, dont you?
I want all those nice things you mentioned. And I want them as soon as possible. Get this, dont you?
However, we WONT GET THIS STUFF ANYWHERE SOON.
This is far off int the future. If you CAN show me without a shred of doubt that we can do all these wonderful things in a year, for example, I will happily forsake clones for droid assassins. If you can show me we can build all these wonderful computers to do the research for us in a year, I will no longer support clone or synth tech.

But what you, dense motherfucker, have to understand that at the current time clone tech is next door compared to all that you mentioned being in the next goddam city over. IF YOU CAN SHOW ME WE CAN GET ALL THAT NOW I WILL SUPPORT IT WHOLEHERTEDLY. Now please, please read this one over again and try to understand. But until we can get there we can use clones in the short term to speed up our advancement in all fields and to reach the robot revolution as fast as possible.

Now, in case you still dont fucking get it. re read this whole thing again. And then some more until it bleeds through your fucking eyes and you learn to read for once in your life.
>>
>>1823920
>However, we WONT GET THIS STUFF ANYWHERE SOON.
We can go kill some legion and take their brains in the meantime, which is a sufficient stop gap until we have artificial braina

>If you can show me we can build all these wonderful computers to do the research for us in a year
Get the ZAX on it for a few turns and we should be good to go. A year is a long time. They are super geniuses at robotics. Massive expansions in processing and memory shouldn't be that hard.

>all that you mentioned being in the next goddam city over.
What city? The zax can do reaearch on better cybernetic computing cores. Or is it impossible to invent something already invented. If Ed-e the eye bot can have the processing capability to feel emotions, we should be able to make a supercomputer capable of running scientific simulations and military probability calculations.

But of course you won't read any of this instead you will start yelling and gibbering about how I don't read.
>>
>>1823948
>If Ed-e the eye bot can have the processing capability to feel emotions

when did that happen?
>>
>>1823950
Ed-e expresses emotions in game. He's pretty sentient.

He makes happy beeps and sad beeps and curious beeps and triumphant beeps.

Which are the subtitile descriptions
https://fallout.gamepedia.com/ED-E%27s_dialogue
>>
>>1823881
>>1823920
Ok what the fuck is going on? this is pretty strong language being thrown around.
>>
>>1823960
Things got...pretty heat the last dozen hours or so.

I mean, we've made progress in terms of developing precisely how we'd use the clones, assuming we did, so at the very least. There's that.


To answer your question, essentially purple when he believe that the other side or anon has no logical points, becomes a belligerent asshole in hopes they'll stop vocally disagreeing. According to himself >>1821851.

To be frank, it's kinda sad.
>>
>>1823964
>I mean, we've made progress in terms of developing precisely how we'd use the clones, assuming we did, so at the very least. There's that.
How are you gonna use clones?
>>
>>1823969
Not at all hopefully.
>>
>>1823969
Christ if I can summarise it. Essentially we've agreed that having them all be forced to do certain jobs is slavery, so they get to choose. We also got an agreement about simulated / real childhoods being given to them depending on which side you are on. There was also some discussion regarding the nature of human perception and if a fact is a fact if it isn't true (don't ask).


I mean. We did make progress, I swear, but it's a thing too complex to describe quickly. Especially since I can't remember most of it.
>>
>>1823969

Replacing the lobotomites in the whorehouse. By making clones with programmed personality and memories to absolutely want and enjoy being whores. And putting emotional control chip just in case they get uppity.

I'm just kidding
>>
>>1823983
>I'm just kidding
Good!
>>
>>1823976
I'm fine if we make clone babies for infertile couples, or gay couples, but i thibk the ability to choose is so importantant in early childhood that we can't make those choices for anyone while still espousing to be about individual realization.

Like we are going to have a lot of after school courses other than the Rats. And the children need to be able to choose to be musicians or artists or doctors, instead if having such choices pushed upon them.
>>
>>1823976
So if i'm getting this right, you're just cloning people? No soldiers unless they choose to be soldiers?
>>
>>1823948
And again, I can say the same about clones. That avenue also has a ZAX on it. What you do right now is speculate.

>>1823964
Firstly, I have argued the advances of biotech and cloning, I have stated numerous times they can decide for themselves and how they are actually normal citizens, not slaves.

Also, that purple is not me.

>>1823994
Again, you suppose it matters so much. We actually have no data to back up that claim. As I have been saying all along, if there is a better way I am all for taking it. However, just shutting down an avenue of advance for the sole reason it seems immoral or that something MIGHT be bad is not ok.

>>1823960
Essentially it boils down to this: We could clone scientist, engineers, soldiers and so on. We could even make commandos with replaceable bodies so they never really die. The opposition argues that such a thing would be immoral and would result in the clones feeling bad because they didnt have a childhood and have implanted knowledge of a field of study/skill.
>>
>>1824033
>And again, I can say the same about clones. That avenue also has a ZAX on it. What you do right now is speculate
Well purple just wants proof that cybercomputing is possible in a year. It is. And Diana can be better put to use on health care things and gene therapies for bad eyes and such. Not clones.

>Firstly, I have argued the advances of biotech and cloning, I have stated numerous times they can decide for themselves and how they are actually normal citizens, not slaves.
And i have argued repeatedly that the fact you are making any major decisions for them makes them slaves, and the indoctrination makes them not free to choose at all.

>Again, you suppose it matters so much. We actually have no data to back up that claim. As I have been saying all along, if there is a better way I am all for taking it. However, just shutting down an avenue of advance for the sole reason it seems immoral or that something MIGHT be bad is not ok.
You are assuming it doesn't matter in the face of scientific consensus.
http://www.earlychildhoodnews.com/earlychildhood/article_view.aspx?ArticleID=607
You are depriving them of important developmental keystones for self actualization.
>>
>>1824033
>Essentially it boils down to this: We could clone scientist, engineers, soldiers and so on. We could even make commandos with replaceable bodies so they never really die. The opposition argues that such a thing would be immoral and would result in the clones feeling bad because they didnt have a childhood and have implanted knowledge of a field of study/skill.
We're also arguing clones are inefficient, and do not have the capabilities of computers, and so are a bandaid solution that can be skipped.
>>
>>1823810
Short to medium vehicular range. Mostly due to limitations in the amount of sturdy wiring which can be put inside these things to hold up after long distances.

Mass production model effectiveness is the equivalent of several missiles or several packets of C4. A mini-nuke version is possible, at a cost of fissile materials, but we would need to research how to turn fissile materials into mini-nukes. The fastest way to do that would be to go and find old world equipment, or use BigMT's research to figure it out.
>>
>>1824074
Do we have a prototype of the new driller?
>>
>>1824077
Yes, the the prototype you have now has been upgraded.
>>
>>1824074

what if.... what if we make the entire driller an underground nuclear missile?
>>
>>1824053
>Well purple just wants proof that cybercomputing is possible in a year. It is. And Diana can be better put to use on health care things and gene therapies for bad eyes and such. Not clones.
You are assuming this. And, as we previously discussed, cloning has one problem to an otherwise working process. And, even if we decide not to clone people, we can still make use of it to resurrect numerous animal species we have on file.

>>1824053
>And i have argued repeatedly that the fact you are making any major decisions for them makes them slaves, and the indoctrination makes them not free to choose at all.
They are free to choose for themselves. If they are not happy with what they do, they can always choose a different path to follow. We are giving them the choice, much like a kid is put into a school not of their but their parents choice. And if they happen to like our nation that is somehow bad?

As to the article, I see nothing that cant be induced through memory implants. If we decide we like people who are hard-working and loyal we implant the necessary neural pathways for that to happen. You are saying without a childhood they would be inept. I am saying all that can be done with memory implants and conditioning.

>>1824056
Again, this is a short term way to boost our whole society until we get omnipotent robots. If you can show me that we can get all that you describe in a year (thus far you have not been able to) I will gladly support the project. And even if we go for the homosex children solution it would still boil down to growing a specific genome from 0-100. So we still have to research it.

Again, we lose nothing if we go down this avenue and we gain very much.
>>
>>1824080
Of course. Expensive, but of course.

However, we don't have the means to make small tactical nuclear warheads. An ICBM would be too big for current designs, but possible for a much much larger vehicle
>>
>>1824080
We have nukes in the Divide. I also fear the MLA has stolen all our tactical warheads (the small handlaser ones). Also, an ICBM solution is faster and can also not be stopped.

>>1824079
Could we drill our heroes to the EMP base?
>>
>>1824093
The ones who don't need to breath under current design. Currently you only have one of these things though.
>>
>>1824093
That's the plan. Next turn.
>>
>>1824093
>Could we drill our heroes to the EMP base?
If you're planning to make a tunnel all the way to the base so we can move troops to take over then no, this version doesn't create tunnels.
>>
>>1824087
>You are assuming this. And, as we previously discussed, cloning has one problem to an otherwise working process. And, even if we decide not to clone people, we can still make use of it to resurrect numerous animal species we have on file.
First you have to gget cloning to work for adults, then figure out how to implant memories. It isn't as easy as making better computers. And we already have basic cloning. We can clone animals whenever we want. We have cloned chicken eggs before.

>They are free to choose for themselves. If they are not happy with what they do, they can always choose a different path to follow. We are giving them the choice, much like a kid is put into a school not of their but their parents choice. And if they happen to like our nation that is somehow bad?

As to the article, I see nothing that cant be induced through memory implants. If we decide we like people who are hard-working and loyal we implant the necessary neural pathways for that to happen. You are saying without a childhood they would be inept. I am saying all that can be done with memory implants and conditioning.

That isn't what choice is. That's false choices. There is a huge difference vetween forcing someone to go to school, where they choose their subjects. And how hard they work and what after school activities they take and forcing false memories on them. How thick are you?

Indoctrination is not good. We want patriots, who can see the flaws in our society and work to fix it, not jingoist yes men. That's just another form of slavery.

>Again, this is a short term way to boost our whole society until we get omnipotent robots. If you can show me that we can get all that you describe in a year (thus far you have not been able to) I will gladly support the project. And even if we go for the homosex children solution it would still boil down to growing a specific genome from 0-100. So we still have to research it.
Its a short term band-aid solution to a problem that can be solved very quickly. It's building a coal power plant instead of waiting for the nuclear plant to finish. By the time we finish, it would be obselete and not needed.

And I have shown you how we can accomplish cyber society within a year.

1. Commit 1-3 zax roboticcs actions to expanding computer processing capacity past flesh and blood brains
2. Build a bunch of the new computers, incorporating logic engines and simulation software and probablility assesment software.
3. Install in Tact models versions focussed on military analysis amd planning, medical analysis for doctors, physics analysers for sciences, etc.
>>
>>1824104
We load up a team, drill into their command center, deposit operations team and shut down defenses. In come the regulars past the now shut down defenses to clean up any other security measures.
>>
Jesus the clone argument exploded even farther.
>>
>>1824171
The Courier is a very though provoking person
Personally I enjoyed the Separatists style more than the Republic, but both have a nice appeal
>>
I'm still not yet able to post, be done with homework soon
>>
>>1823994
>I'm fine if we make clone babies for infertile couples, or gay couples, but i thibk the ability to choose is so importantant in early childhood that we can't make those choices for anyone while still espousing to be about individual realization.
Agreed. It's why I feel uncomfortable doing what the Chinese do in many regards: where children are raised from birth to be X. Since it is so regimented and shit.

>Like we are going to have a lot of after school courses other than the Rats. And the children need to be able to choose to be musicians or artists or doctors, instead if having such choices pushed upon them.
Everyone should know how to play some musical instrument. It's good practice for memory, rhythm, concentration and other such tasks.

Art is a bit more of a personal pursuit in my opinion but I agree there should be some investment.

>>1824005
Essentially. Just using it to augment our birth rate and allow those who otherwise couldn't to have children (who we give genetics enhancements, quickly adding more to the population than otherwise possible: since adoption among most people could prove slow).

>>1824033
>Firstly, I have argued the advances of biotech and cloning,
Biotech I have no problem with. Cloning too under the right circumstances.

>I have stated numerous times they can decide for themselves and how they are actually normal citizens, not slaves.
Yet you felt it appropriate to suggest that we forcibly make them positive and full of interest in the world >>1823604 which is just horrifying.

Also as I have stated so many times, the shit you originally replied to was from me reacting to the discussion after I logged off. I couldn't give a rat's ass what you decided since I was reacting as I saw it and thus hadn't reached yours yet. Fact is that for the most part we are now in agreement. I think...but we will have to see won't we?

>Also, that purple is not me.
You just seem so similar, I must've not noticed.

>>1824171
Yeah, welcome to the meat of the discussion. It's fucking horrifying.
>>
>>1824188
If we can make IG-88 I agree 100%.

>>1824115
>figure out how to implant memories.
And again, as I have stated, we can already do this.

>>1824115
>And I have shown you how we can accomplish cyber society within a year.
You are assuming we can research it this quickly, that we can build it this quickly and that it all goes without some large quest or other task. Remember how much grief the first ZAX gave us? You are starting a project of equal proportions, if not even more so.

As to indoctrination, just because they are patriotic doesnt mean they cant think. You know, just like real people. Everything else again boils down to your sense of morals.
>>
>>1824196
>which is just horrifying.
You find a positive outlook on life horrifying?
Well that explains a lot.
>>
>>1824196
>Essentially. Just using it to augment our birth rate and allow those who otherwise couldn't to have children.
As i figured.
Can we ask our guys what they think of this?
>>
>>1824211
No I find fucking around with someone's mind, their outlook, their perception and all that nice shit horrifying. It's not something they can opt out of. It's not something they can ignore or control or even fight against.


It's having slavery literally encoded into your brain.
>>
>>1824202
Of course we can research it. And the reason we weren't building artificial brains for the first ZAX was cost of materials, but that is prettt moot with how much we can harvest from the Divide. Literal cities worth. And a quest is 1 or 2 additional turns. It takes like 20, for a year to go by. Still within your time frame.

So what's the indoctrination going to be? The PC is great, except when it isn't and you should speak up about it? How would you preprogram loyalty and expect anything but obedience?
>>
>>1824196
We need dedicated artists and entertainers though if we want to compete on the culture game. All we have going for us is science, and many factions have that well enough.
>>
>>1824213
Yeah we should probably just their opinion on this seeing as the last argument against the Clone armies / population thing is our people's opinion of it.

>>1824221
True but we already have a few. Plus our culture is already fairly strong and given a few years and some growth such groups will form naturally.

Also, science is all we need going for us.
>>
>>1824234
Yeah, but it is always nice to have more variety. We currently have 3 different musicians, (unity is 1) and no physical artists. I want a statue of a phoenix in the city square, a museum of our best paintings on display. Actors for thw captain commonwealth revival series, on friday nights on Alexa. Things like that.
>>
>>1824250
Eh, ignoring the statue that all sounds expensive without reward (just have Diana give us a 3-D representation of an Eagle, make it look a little more mystic, render it in stone / hexcrete and we're done). Fact is that I'd prefer to focus our turns on shit like factories, soldiers and cities than fresco's, statue's and such.
>>
>>1824265
Maybe from a cursory glance. But art is about a message, and what bettter way to get the message about our nation than in an easily understood package like a painting. Remember the mural the boomers had at Nellis. It was their history and ideals and their hopes for their future. If we want people coming to us, we need something that draws them in. Any one can say a speech on a radio.its something special to write a song filled with passion and love.
>>
>>1824277
>Maybe from a cursory glance. But art is about a message, and what better way to get the message about our nation than in an easily understood package like a painting.
How about outdoing the industrial growth of the NCR and BOS at the same time? How about destroying the Legion in less than a year? How about sending something into orbit?

Art can send a message, aye. But so can a factory. So can a city. So can a army.

>Remember the mural the boomers had at Nellis. It was their history and ideals and their hopes for their future. If we want people coming to us, we need something that draws them in. Any one can say a speech on a radio.its something special to write a song filled with passion and love.
And I'd argue that between the free food, education, housing, guaranteed employment, alcohol ration, healthcare and security we've got a fuck ton to attract people. Especially if we expand to the Untamed northern states where no nation state currently has claims and begin forming another Phoenix Commonwealth area.

Also a bit of art will only draw people in, once they can see it. So they'd need to already be here.
>>
>>1824313
Fine fine. We can table art until we have a good stable footing in the world stage.
>>
>>1824320
Hey I'm not saying don't make artsy additions to our cities: fountains, statues, gardens and such are all great for morale and shit.
>>
>>1824328
Yeah, they are. Though we should take an action an make Windows and furniture for everyone at some point.
>>
>>1824335
Eh, once we've gotten 3 construction actions and have the Legion lands we can look into such things.

Right now our focus is expansion, expansion, expansion. Of industry, of the army, of our scientific knowledge, of our population and of our lands.
>>
>>1824335
I agree
>>
>>1824093
>>1824119

pls no
lets just send expendable robots, otherwise when it turns to shitshow we'd be forced to burn our valuable boon. This shit keeps happening.

Maybe once we've scouted the situation with the robots, we will send in the heroes
>>
>>1824396
We could build one that lays a cable as it goes and then use that to allow us to remotely control the robots. Removing the risk but maintain the oversight.
>>
>>1824396
We are sending the spy satellite overhead. We can see what we see.

And we've gone into dangweous unkowns before. Remember when we single handedly went into the mothership to kill the aliens? Pun intended. If we have a team, and are kitted right it could be an easy in and out mission.
>>
>>1824193
Do we need another research action to make the bot create tunnels behind it as it goes?

After that, is fhe design complete and ready for mass production?
>>
>>1824426
>Do we need another research action to make the bot create tunnels behind it as it goes?
At least one more.

>After that, is fhe design complete and ready for mass production?
Probably. It'll do for now at least.
>>
>>1824426
While tunnel makers are useful, I feel as if it is better for operational security if the tunnel; collapses behind the drill, to prevent being followed.

We can probably do with both versions though, for different purposes.
>>
>>1823561
>You are talking about making sentient individuals that exist solely for your purposes, if someone made you and made it so you only wanted to eat fucking chicken all your days I think you might come to resent them at the very least.
If the person did it well then I wouldn't resent them, I'd just want to eat chicken all my days and I'd be really perfectly happy eating chicken all my days. If you came up to me and said "dude, don't you want to do anything other than eat chicken?" I'd just stare at you while continuing to eat my chicken and be happy.

>Except that is my point. They are people and you'd essentially be enslaving them!
You can't really point out where anyone's enslaving anyone. If giving people a predilection for certain things directly is enslavement then any form of nurture is enslavement.

>Except that is my point. They'd still be experiencing 30 different unique viewpoints and that is an insane thing to do to someone.
No, you stitch the memories together such that it looks like it's 1 person's viewpoint.

Or you leave it as 30 different people's viewpoints and they're really just fine with that because it's all they've known and some people aren't as close-minded as your, personally, are.

>No seeing as they agreed to that and can drop out.
Since when are we stopping any clones that decide they want to do something else from doing something else? If they want to they can go do something else, they're full citizens.

>Of course I do, because if you told me I was made solely so someone could have a fucking physicist to research shit for them I'd break their nose.
"Johnny, we made you with the intent of you being a physicist. Accordingly we gave you all sorts of training and memories for it. If you want to do something else you can, but this is probably what you'd enjoy best."

And then turns out they love being a physicist.
>>
>>1824502
Fuck it, I am done trying to explain this to you.
>>
>>1824524
>>1824502

If you two cant find a compromise, it probably would be easier to just agree to disagree
>>
>>1824549
Yep, which is why I've gave up on trying to convince him. I've got better shit to do than convince him.
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>>1824549
Oh I'm pretty done with it. These people can't seem to understand that just because /they/ value something doesn't mean that there aren't other people who couldn't care less about it.

That other anon also expounded on stuff in ways that I thought were implicitly obvious (giving clones a fulfilling childhood of memories, for instance, is something that anyone who has the capability to would want to do). If the other side can't piece together the small details like that warms the argument to them then there's no point in trying to explain anyway. They just assume we want clones because we're evil.
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>>1824592
And just because /you/ don't value something, doesn't mean other people don't. Most people aren't sociopaths like you.

You say that the clones would agree with your point of view even though you also want them mentally healthy, which is rather impossible, I'm afraid.
Also your points are pure conjecture, based on a sample of 1, you.
Ask your therapist about living a lie. If you don't have one, seriously get one.
>>
>>1824608
See now though the thing is that I can find plenty of people around who don't agree with you on any number of points, just like you don't agree with me on these handful of points.

And just like I don't kill myself, you don't kill yourself, and they don't kill themselves. It's like it all works out fine even though you happen to disagree with them.
>>
>>1824621
>>1824608

And that's really where you people astound me with your stupidity. Just because someone disagrees with you on core principles doesn't mean they're a monster any more than you disagreeing with their core principles makes you one.

This applies for any given set of core principles, in fact.

But to be fair this only really becomes apparent if you have to go live in a foreign culture that you don't really agree with on a core level, and educated guesswork would point to you who find foreign thoughts horrifying having never left your home countries.
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>>1824629
Now you are making assertions without evidence.


We don't find foreign thought objectable, I acquiesced on the point of the Bastions when their effectiveness was shown, what we find objectable is your insanity and all "logical" thoughts you derive from it.
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>>1824629
Sure. You're so learned and worldly that apparently you believe that a large group of people would take having fake memories in stride, because apparently, the truth means nothing to a bunch of scientists. Those are definitely not the sort of people to react badly to misinformation.
/s you autist.
>>
>>1824634
>>1824640
The technical way to say it is that you disagree with my premise, which is all well and fine because I disagree with yours. As things stand right now though neither can be demonstrated to be wrong so it's funny that you're calling me 'monster' while I just think you're kinda dumb.

I'm not really making assertions without evidence. It's just a different avenue of personal attack, figured you'd pick up on it but apparently not.

>>1824640
There's the thing, if your memories aren't how events actually happened and a clone's memories aren't any different from yours except they think they were the witness then you're not really layering on much more fallacy than was already there.

Of course, you're presuming that they'd give a shit about the memories being 'real' by your standards too. Which they don't necessarily, by virtue of them being a different person than you.
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>>1824653
I don't know if you realize, but a statistically significant majority of the population do not like being lied too. The bigger the lie, the less they like it. So you can be demonstrably wrong in that you are equating a very small minority to a population as a whole.

Real memories are often close enough, and clone memories are absolutely false. And Most people would put value on the truth, and would prefer reality to living a literal lie. So again, you are taking a sample of 1, and equating it to a population, vs us taking a significantly larger sample, as we have social lives, that says you are wrong.
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>>1824682
See though you're not lying to them when you give them a sequence of childhood memories, tell them "these are the childhood memories of so-and-so that we've picked together to try and give you the most well-rounded upbringing we possibly could".

'Course maybe that's one of those details I figured you'd fill in but you just can't seem to get over thinking that the core concept is evil.
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>>1824682
Also
>We have social lives
>Is playing a civ quest game on 4chan
Your ruses are going to have to be better than that, anon.
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>>1824688
Giving people a bunch of fake memories, inorder to brainwash them into being loyal servants?
No, who can possibly think that is evil?

Who can possibly think that being told they were created solely so they can work is less than ideal?

Definitely not anyone /reasonable/ because you don't think it's unreasonable and you are a learned rational skeptic, above such things like all men should aspire to be.
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>>1824653
>The technical way to say it is that you disagree with my premise, which is all well and fine because I disagree with yours. As things stand right now though neither can be demonstrated to be wrong so it's funny that you're calling me 'monster' while I just think you're kinda dumb.
And we call you a "monster" because what you are suggesting by most logical avenues of thought seems morally repulsive to perform and experience.

>I'm not really making assertions without evidence. It's just a different avenue of personal attack, figured you'd pick up on it but apparently not.
No because in an argument I don't usually stoop to calling the other individual a racist. Because I can actually construct an argument.

>There's the thing, if your memories aren't how events actually happened and a clone's memories aren't any different from yours except they think they were the witness then you're not really layering on much more fallacy than was already there.
That is so incredibly wrong I don't even know where to start.

>Of course, you're presuming that they'd give a shit about the memories being 'real' by your standards too. Which they don't necessarily, by virtue of them being a different person than you.
Here's a list of media items where the existence of fake memories occurs: Toy story (individual goes into depressive spiral), Total recall (Guy deals with it but was kinda a secret agent and shit, probably had training to deal with it), Blade runner (protag gets fucked), Ghost in the shell (breaks a garbage man), Dark city (protag finds out, commits suicide), Moon (protag, finds out and escapes), Universal Soldier: Day of Reckoning (protag kills the guy that did it), Babylon 5 - "Passing Through Gethsemane" (has a breakdown after finding out he used to be a serial killer and had new memories inserted), Stargate SG-1 (multiple times, various outcomes), Doctor who (he has a breakdown when he has to change back), Red Dwarf (shit goes wrong) and a fuck tonne more I can't be bothered to list.


My point is this: these are things made to represent common beliefs and yours isn't in any of them. At best you could argue from Toy story that it is possible recover from but I doubt we'd be so lucky.

So I can state with near certainty, that you are in the minority of humanity in regards to your opinion and thus you can be classified as Deviant or to put it more appropriately: a lunatic.
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>>1824697
Nah, giving people a bunch of real memories from someone else. Probably also skills too, and then letting them go do whatever they want. Why do you constantly think that we'd force clones into work any more than regular citizens even though you're repeatedly told it'd be otherwise?

>>1824703
>And we call you a "monster" because what you are suggesting by most logical avenues of thought seems morally repulsive to perform and experience.
Well morality varies by individual, and logical thought doesn't necessarily interact with it so this is a non-statement.

>That is so incredibly wrong I don't even know where to start.
Go on, start.

Every single example you list there involves someone having had memories get overwritten, and that's why they're all so bothersome. That's also what the common belief that you're referencing is

Why would someone who wakes up one day with a set of memories and is otherwise a blank slate care? Furthermore, supposing they really didn't care why would it be an issue? Because we can make it to where they don't care just by being selective in what memories are chosen.

>So I can state with near certainty, that you are in the minority of humanity in regards to your opinion and thus you can be classified as Deviant or to put it more appropriately: a lunatic.
Sure I'm someone who doesn't lie in the center, but people with minority opinions aren't lunatics. There are plenty of folks who believe in stuff way less likely to be true than what I'm espousing though, and I'd wager you'd hesitate to call them lunatics wouldn't you? Is the only thing that makes someone a lunatic or deviant simple numeric weight of those that agree with them?
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>>1824741
And I'd like to expound, seeing as apparently you have to have these things spelled out for you.

If we created a person with fake memories who didn't care if they had fake memories, and otherwise treated them the same as any other person who wasn't created deliberately...is it an ethical dilemma?

It kinda comes back to the "if you make a cow that wants to be eaten is it wrong to eat it? Wrong to have created it?" analogy.
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>>1824741
Wow, so now we're screwing around with what they care about? tell me again how they have free will.

That is the definition of deviant, so yes. You deviate from the norm.
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>>1824755
Excellent. Whenever my side gets more folks to it I'll ensure you're treated in a similar fashion to how I'm being treated here.

I'm not screwing around with what they care about, because there's nothing to 'screw around' with. I'm creating what they care about, and just like they won't care about any number of things when raised as a normal child they just wouldn't happen to care about whether their memories had actually been physically experienced by them or not.

How's that messing with free will, just because I've got a better idea of what I'm doing and can do it more effectively than most parents can pull off?
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>>1824741
And Moon is exactly what you wanted to make- a clone who had a bunch of memories so he could do the job he was created to do- He found out and went rouge. So we have that expectation, which doesn't look good for your point of view.
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>>1824772
Which one is Moon? And why is it that because people think that'd happen means it WILL happen? That just means that author/pop culture dude agrees with you, but the clones being created don't necessarily.
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>>1824770
>"I made you care and belief and feel things different from how you normally would. You totally have free will. It's the type of brainwashing that is totally legit."
So you can see how one might conclude that you are not respecting free will.
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>"I made you care and belief and feel things different from how you normally would. You totally have free will. It's the type of brainwashing that is totally legit."
See though, you're not making them care/believe/feel things different from what they 'normally' would. You're just making them care/believe/feel things different from what they would if they were raised in the standard fashion.

This being said, no one is raised in the 'standard' fashion. All experiences depart from norm to a greater or lesser extent.

Oh, and like you said earlier the only criteria for what's deviant is deviating from the norm. So what if we flash-clone enough people in this fashion to dwarf our current population of 300, and the instilled values become the cultural norm?

Your whole argument falls apart at that point, and that's kind of my point and the point of other anons. We get the chance to play god here, and there's not actually anything wrong with playing god as long as you make sure you do it well.
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>>1824775
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_(film)

Amd then there is Slick from the clone wars, who went traitor because he believed he was being enslaved to fight a war he didn't want to fight, despite loyalty programming in the clone troopers.

And media is all we have to go off. It's not really possible to implant memories or clone anyone. Also they generally mean that a majority of people agree with it, since a majority of media involving fake memories involves someone having a break down or going rouge.

And the reason we should take media tropes as being the likely thing to happen is because QM is not going to intentionally avert tropes for your benefit.
>>
As an alternative compromise to complete implanted memories, why not have each clone put in a VR as it grows where we give them the child hood and education they would have anyway if they were born the slow way.

They have the free will to respond and react to the VR simulation in real time. We dont hide the fact that they are clones, and they arent born with any delusions as to who they are. Citizens of our nation.
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>>1824789
I would say normal is how the person would develop if not having their memories faked and cares altered.

Not really how your deviancy works, as the deviancy of your point of view is external from the belief of virtual clones that exist on a mongolian carpet maker's forum.
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>>1824797
Well that takes 30 years for 30 years of experience, and involves a bunch of VR pods that could be put to better use than raising clones. Also at that point clones would be very much obsolete.
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>>1824789
Flash-cloning greater than 300 people ought to be pretty easy, and at that point (as long as you're assigning the same moral worth to clones as other people).

>>1824794
Oh, right, I remember that movie now. He found out and went rogue because he wasn't being treated to the same standards of life as other humans were and because he was in a shitty situation.

You don't see media of clones that are given memories and treated well because...they'd basically just act like normal people. That makes for a boring story.

Give me an example of someone who grew up without their cares being altered.
>>
Alright, I'm back for the whole nigh!

Time to update, and get a new thread going.
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>>1824807
Are we not able to speed it up? Otherwise that puts a big ass hole in that idea.
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>>1824797
Anon here: >>1824807 is kinda right. If we're just going to make things happen the normal way it's better to let people fuck and enjoy it rather than cloning folks.

Well I guess you'd be compounding population growth a bit by brute force, but it doesn't seem worth it.
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>>1824824
You could, but how could you speed it up AND get an equivalent childhood/education via VR in?

Well, probably with a bit of research actually.
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>>1824812
The Truman show? It involves fake memories so it counts.

He finds out everything he knows is fake and goes rouge. He was loved.

Infact, you are acting like the producer guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R2IJFCUBFs
Notice how Truman doesn't buy that shit.
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>>1824838
Well if it requires more research into VR simulations. Then i suppose its not a very effective compromising.

My bad
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>>1824845
He was lied to about everything he knew. He was made to believe it was real, so of course he resented being lied to (only because he'd been raised to think being lied to was bad though).

In comparison our clones would know what they are and the nature of what they'd experienced, they just won't care.
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>>1824864
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL4AKhNfJDc
start at 2:40
Slick from clone wars. He knew he was a clone, resented the fact he was serving at the whim of the jedi, and betrayed his brothers.
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>>1824875
He was thrown into war immediately, with the intent to die, and never given a choice of whether he wanted to or do something else.

Why do you keep assuming that our clones are going to be forced into doing something and then never allowed to change their minds like some sort of non-citizens?
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>>1824892
Because why else would they be doing the work you wish them too? fond memories? those aren't real.
Obligation for a childhood that never happened?
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>>1824911
Because they're well suited for it and it brings them enjoyment and happiness in life to do so? This is probably influenced by their memories, yeah, which they don't care are 'fake' by your standards because they feel real enough to them.
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>>1824920
No it doesn't. That is fake, and they know so. And since when was being good at something a reason to do it?

And remember, they are rational, scientific minds, which means they are trained to be conscious of their bias. So any good feelings are ignored because they are fake.

And again, you make the assumption that memories feeling real is enough for people, despite most of all the media made shows people reacting negatively to their lives being lies.
Remember, they don't know they lived a lie for 30 years of memories. You are shattering their concept of what is real, and you expect them to act compliant?
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>>1824933
I guess you do something that you're bad at for a living then? Like arguing? Most people don't.

Are you really implying that rational, scientific people don't have good feelings? Anytime you feel good it's because of your bias, what makes this any different?

Yes they do know they have someone else's memories. I've said that several times. Do you not read? That aside you're acting like you don't know anyone who'd rather remember something fondly even though that's not the way it actually went down and they know it. Not that this would EVEN cause them that level of psychological distress because we'd make sure we're making people who wouldn't care.

I can find plenty of media that demonstrates that says plenty of crazy things too. If you continue to support your argument with "but muh media" then I'll start bringing up some counter-examples of people going crazy after having had a normal upbringing.
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>>1824958
I'm implying that rational scientific people won't be swayed by good feelings based on a outright lie.

They know when you tell them, Unless their entire childhood has a "FAKE MEMORY" watermark, they would have 30 years of experience that you then tell them is not real. That would cause some psychological trauma.

People going crazy during normal upbringing isn't even relevant unless you want to point out how you might be creating psychopaths even before being told their life is fake.
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>>1824974
Okay, so we preface their experiences with "We're going to give you all the best childhood memories we can." It's not that hard, seeing as we're defining literally everything about them?

Which is the point. We're defining literally everything about them, and you're acting like we can't possibly do that now for some reason even though we clearly can.

You've abandoned arguing the morality, I've noticed.
>>
So is the argument that clones are bad?

Or is the argument that clones with implanted memories are bad?

With the back and for accusations its getting hard to follow.
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>>1824992
How do you tell something like that before they have any memories? Do you crack open the tube, explain what you are doing to the mental equivalent of a new born and let er rip? If they understand what you're saying when you tell them this, what happens if they say no?

you are defining everything about them, then telling them that all those definitions are fake. Worthless. Not even dreams, more like watching a movie. So yes, I'm assuming that would cause some disregard to your efforts to define them.

And I abandoned Morality arguments because you are an amoral edgelord who would just dismiss it as "feelings" and feel smug about it.
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>>1825036
Well I think other anon was saying both those things, and then eventually backtracked to saying "you couldn't make clones like that!" which was a strategic misstep.

>>1825070
You've got it all wrong, you don't value anything you haven't been taught to value and they wouldn't value anything they haven't been taught to value either. It's just incredible that you can't get that through their thick skull.

We can tell them that either at the beginning, or at whatever you think is the 'age of accountability' as most cultures call it. Or whenever else seems most applicable, that's really a detail thing.

If they understand what we're saying and say "Nah" then we give them the choice to do whatever they want I guess.

Whoaa now, edgelord eh? Thou dost wound me, anon.
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>>1825083
Yeah, no. I am >>1823994. The argument was always about making implanted memories in clones. Stop strawmanning.

If I have been taught a value, but the teaching is a lie, I wouldn't value what the teaching teaches. I would actively reject it and take up some other value that is relevant to the lesson being taught. Unless you think Nothing gets a person to like something like forcing them to do it.

Tell them at the beginning, and they don't understand. Tell them at the age of accountability, and you ruin your whole "Give them important knowledge and make them work" plan when they reject you, because teenager's aren't known for taking violation of trust well.

So you're making a whole plan that would most deinitely always work, except when they say no after being told everything they know is a lie during the most rebellious period of their lives? Sounds like a recipe for failure.
>>
Begin has the clones war. No end for many threads it will last
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>>1825121

If you've never been taught anything else you wouldn't be able to tell that the teaching is a lie. In fact, if someone came up to you and said that everything you'd believed your whole life was a lie you'd be very unlikely to believe them. And in fact they'd probably be lying themselves.

How can you be so certain that they'll say know? You're back into generalized statements. As an example, I wouldn't really give a fuck if it turned out tomorrow all my memories hadn't actually happened. So if I exist then your post there is wrong, and if I exist then my memories (or something effectively the same) could be reproduced to have someone who's got the same tepidity towards what's real and fake.

Nah, tell them whenever. Allow them to renege on it whenever too. I don't want anyone who's unwilling, we're trying to build a utopia together.
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>>1825175
You would if you're outright told that "That memory of being taught is a lie" or "everything is a lie, even the lessons"
And The next point doesn't even make sens in relation to what you want to do. You want them to know they are clones with false, but also not believe that their memories are false? I think you haven't thought this through at all, other than /clones/

Because Unlike you I have been a teenager at one point in my life, and I can say with authority that most healthy, well adjusted teenagers, don't like being lied to, and in fact, would react emotionally to the whole affair.
It is a very noticeable psychological trend that teenagers are very sensative to their individuality and self identity. Telling them they have none is going to go over terribly. The age of accountability is literally the worst age to tell them that they are living a lie.

So you think that having a bunch of angry teenagers who deny you helps us build a Utopia? This isn't Hunger Games. It doesn't work like that.
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>>1825223
Man, now you're not even maintaining the pretense of having an argument, you're just going "No u."
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>>1820328
>Research
>Super mutant brain help- memories and schizophrenia cure among other things.
You remember Doc Henry's ultimate goal was to cure the Nightkin of their Schizophrenia. His "last great achiement before he kicked the bucket"

You consider, with your new knowledge, to help him achieve this dream rather than doing it for him. Perhaps even giving him credit.

You also consider that you could sway him even further to the type of research you are currently doing, and make him more pliable that way in the future. He was on your side, ish. Mostly Bradley but still.

>Do it
>Nah, we did this. Sorry Doc Henry, too slow
>Other?
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>>1825234
>do it

Cure the poor bastards
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>>1825234

>Do it
But we don't have to emphasize that our latest bout of amoral research was what got us here. The results will either speak for themselves to him or not.
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>>1825234
Do it
>>
>>1825234

>Do it
No need to rub it in his face.
>>
>>1825234
>>Do it
>>
>>1825232
You seem to be taking having having no argument rather badly. I'm sorry that your position was so weak.
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>>1825322
No, it's just pointless to talk to you. I'm pretty good at detecting when I'm getting trolled or at least when people have reverted to troll-tier argumentative tactics.
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>>1825234
You give Dr. Henry tidbits of the some of the neurological breakthroughs you've done, and convince him that now they finally have a chance of cracking the age old problem of the nightkin's shizophrenia, and even restore the Super Mutants past memories.

---

Your first subject is of course, Lily Bowen, and you explain to her the details. You tell her that if she accepts her surgery, she will have perfect memory again. She will be able to remember what she was like when she was a human, her grandchildren, and she won't have to take her medicine anymore.

Lily listens intently, and understands well enough. She actually seems okay with it There is one thing though.

>Lilly
"Leo says he doesn't like that at all. He's afraid you're going to make him go away."

Oh yea, Leo. Her imaginary friend.

You have often found that nightkin tend to comparmentalize more violent and sociopathic tendencies into imaginary friends. First there was that one night kin and the talking antlers under the repconn facility.

Then there was Dog and God. You allowed them "both" to live in one body.

Tabitha would speak to "rhonda" despite her being shut off.

Leo is of course, the "friend" that is always by lilly' side who tells her "who to chop" and likes it when she uses her melee weapon over ranged fire. Whenever lilly goes berserk, especially without her medicine, its because of leo.

Wondering on these precedences, you consider what to say. This actually could have an effect on how you plan to cure super mutants and the nightkin.

CHOOSE
>[Remove the Imaginary Friends - Permanent stability bonus for stealth and ranged. Decreased melee effectivness]
"I think its time we told Leo to go home Lilly."

>[Make the Imaginary Friends an on/off switch - Permanent bonus for combat effectiveness in melee. Decreased stealth effectiveness and ranged]
"I think its time for Leo to go on vacation Lilly. Maybe when we need his skills, we can call him back"

>Other? (Make Leo in charge?)
>>
>>1825381
[Remove the Imaginary Friends - Permanent stability bonus for stealth and ranged. Decreased melee effectivness]
"I think its time we told Leo to go home Lilly."
If it comes down to it, we can always train her better in melee to make up the difference.
>>
>>1825381
>>[Remove the Imaginary Friends - Permanent stability bonus for stealth and ranged. Decreased melee effectivness]
>>
>>1825381
>I think its time we told Leo to go home, Lily
>>
>>1825381
>remove Leo
>tell Lily that Leo needs to see his family and kids as well, it's only fair
>>
>>1825381
>[Remove the Imaginary Friends - Permanent stability bonus for stealth and ranged. Decreased melee effectivness]
>>
>>1825381
>[Remove the Imaginary Friends - Permanent stability bonus for stealth and ranged. Decreased melee effectivness]
>>
>>1825394
>>1825398
>>1825400
>>1825407
>>1825452
Lilly
"Leo. . .its time for you to go home now. I know you're mad, but we've been together enough. Its time to go home now."

---

Lily is lying on a table unconscious as you crack open her brain. There are a number of other implants in there and modifications, you never actually bothered to look deep inside a super mutant brain. They were probably added by the "Master". You dare not touch them since you can't be sure what they do and most seem integrated into important parts, but you add your adjustment.

---

Lily recovers, and you watch.

She's crying.

You ask if she's in pain.

>Lily
"No dearie. I'm okay.

I'm sad because. . .I remember now. I remember what happened to my grand children. I can see their faces now, their smiles. They were such beautiful angels.

I never found out what happened to them before the Master's soldiers dipped me.

Thank you for returning their memory to me. I no longer hear Leo. I feel very calm now."

Doc Henry doesn't show it, but you think he's beaming with pride.
>>
>>1825486
Hug grandma Lily :(
>>
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>>1825511
You give Grandma lilly a big hug.

"Sweetie, you might not be my descendant, but you'll never be too old to be one of Grandma's little ones."

Lilly goes off to visit the Children again, your Children and the Freeside Rats.

She's been acting as a bit of their moral compass and go-to granny especially for the orphans.

Joeclyn reports that the rats are delighted to see Grandma is "feeling better"


>>1825486
From that moment onward you proceed with the rest of the Super Mutants, restoring their memories and curing them of their schizophrenia.

For some its a shocking revelation, for others like Marcus, its a small reminder of their past which, while detestable, gives them a better sense of their identity.

>Marcus
"Yes, I remember now. My old life. I was a mercenary. When I was captured, I was lucky enough that my family history and myself wasn't as irradiated as they could have been. I wasn't a Genius like Lou, but I could hold myself.

I'm still not fond of who I was. I still think, all things considered, becoming a super mutant was an improvement for me. I think its an improvement for everyone really, but I do think the Master was wrong to force it on people.

In a way, I think I agree with his son. . .er, daughter? A lot more."
>>
>>1825522
All the nightkin and mutants are now socially improved. For the first time, many of them leave their caves and walk around public society. They wear robes and cloaks, some habits are a bit hard to kick, but now they do not go into an angry rant when people stare at them.

The people are surprised to find the super mutants more well behaved, but accept them mostly.

>Your Super Mutant Squads have improved, remembering their training
>The Nightkin can now be recruited
>>
>>1825522
How is this for Supermutant Morale? Does Marcus think that this would be a good way to bring in more Supermutants into joining us? Would this be something he would want to talk about in a radio broadcast?
>>
>>1825537
>Marcus
"In my opinion, the MLA have already gotten the drop on us.

As part of the Master's Army, supermutants felt a sense of cameradier, martial pride, we were all brothers in arms.

The NCR tote a "Super Mutant division" maybe they have a few, but in general there's a lot of bad blood between the NCR and super mutants. Between them and the Legion driving them away, and the MLA offering a living Super Mutant general and an army? We're going to have a hard time.

Our best bet is seeing if there are super mutants who haven't heard of them, if there are any out there. The other nations have touched a lot of territory."

>Raul
"Maybe some of them fled to Mexico, but the NCR and Legion have tendrils there too."

>Marcus
"Still worth a shot. Many super mutants have modfied pip-boys given by the master."
>>
>>1825562
Would Super Mutant memory restoration be something he would want to talk about in a radio broadcast?
>>
>>1825562
>Talk to Diana, tell her and show her the situation in Big Mt, ask her to develop a plan to greenify this region.
QM, after we talked with Diana and gave her the chip, you missed the second half of the action
>>
>>1825534
Ask Marcus how is Unity different?
>>
>>1825574
One... is a hive mind and another is not?
>>
What I don't understand is why Unity has to speak like the Master when talking with the mutants.

She should speak with them like normal.
>>
>>1825570
"Certainly. But perhaps if you want to recruit supermutants from the MLA, you might have better luck with Unity.

The Unity was a big concept to us all. Many of the others want to join Unity, but Unity is waiting for proper FEV research before she rebuilds."

>>1825573
I'll get to that.

>>1825574
"Simple. They aren't forcing people to integrate into the Unity. They're trying to show why the Unity is a better way, through action and deeds.

The Unity was the Master's ultimate plan, but he never had a chance to enact it. A single species with a single mindset to challenge human nature's flaws and pettiness. A world without divisions of race, creed, the things which lead to the nuclear war and humanity's ills."

>>1825590
>Marcus
"It's comforting actually. Its a reminder and a respect of his legacy. But really, she doesn't have to speak.

We can hear the Unity when she's close."
>>
>>1825574
"Oh, and the other thing.

The Master failed, also, because he didn't forsee that Super Mutants could not reproduce.

Unity intends to fix that, as well as the intense deformation, before opening up the Unity to us all. I think I would like that."
>>
>>1825609
Why does she talk in three voices when leading forces in battle?

I also dont mind asking unity herself this question.
>>
>>1820328
>>Bio research
>Talk to Diana, tell her and show her the situation in Big Mt, ask her to develop a plan to greenify this region.
>Diana
"You lack water. With water I could turn even a desert green with ease.

Most of the rivers are far away and in your rival's territories, and you are already tapping into your nearby water sources. The NCR and the Legion surround you almost on all sides.

If you could find a way to divert water from nearby rivers."

>Brain
"There are rivers in the Divide, but those are irradiated among other things."

>Diana
"I do not have a means to remove mass radiation from that amount of water."

>You
[Wait. The Shi have invented vines that are able to absorb radiation. The NCR are using them to clean places and water.

If I stole some samples of it, could we do this?]

>Diana
"Yes, that is possible."

>ZAX(CEO)
"Combine it with some large scale filtration facilities and this will work."

>Brain
"Won't all of this take a lot of time?"

>CEO
"Yes. To achieve the effect similar to being able to "clear a river" of that green glowing flow fro the Divide, according to Diana's research the most effective way to do it would be to divert a long river from the Divide here to BigMT. No small task.

Then need to build a large scale water purification plants to remove the most egregious chemical polutants. Mostly rust plus several others. Actually we may need a series of water filters.

Then, alongside this river, we plant the vines which absorb the radiation and release fresh water. I don't know how effective these vines are, but we could be looking to medium or large forests.

After that we collect the freshwater run off in a big enough lake to sustain any new plant growth."

>You
[Can't we just build one giant building to do all of this at once? Like a giant Vault purifier]

>ZAX(RND)
"No. I predict that Vault Purifiers cannot be scaled up effectively. Any such research would be a futile effort."

>ZAX(CEO)
"To achieve the same effect, you would need to build a lot of Vault-Tec Purifiers and spread out and power them. And for that we would need a lot of Old World Water Chips.

Without those I'll have to build some conventional water and sewage purification plants."

>You
[Diana do we have any faster alternatives?]

She frowns, and speaks.

>Diana
"Yes. . ."

>con't
>>
>>1825683
>Diana
"The Garden of Eden Creation Kit. Or GECK. The Nursery has a factory that can build them. Ours was built by Greenway Hydroponics instead of Vault-Tec, so it isn't as powerful as the Vault Models, but we could build more of them faster. Just one of these could create an entire lake of water to sustain a village for centuries.

Once I considered using it to spread green into the wasteland once more.

Then Miles Reese came. He stole a prototype Vault-Tec GECK, one with more power than the others. I shut down the factory and sealed it away. I feared it could be misused.

Even so, were my factory restored, we also face the issue of supplies. It not only requires fissile material, it requires Beryllium-247."

>ZAX(RND)
"Beryllium-247? Wow. That's some powerful stuff. Everything else just uses Uranium and Plutonium"

>ZAX(CEO)
"Beryllium-247 was very rare even in the Old World. Its the precious metal of fissile materials."

>Diana
"If you were to find a way to get or make Beryllium, we could start producing GECK"
>>
>>1825712
And where would beryllium be found? What old world facilities would have enough for our needs?
>>
>>1825712
Can't we replicate Beryllium?
>>
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>>1825724
>>1825728
>Brain
"The United States reserved Beryllium for its most powerful ICBM's, the ones with the capability to level entire cities. I presume China did the same as well.

If we were to find and disable any ICBM's, it's likely they'd yield Beryllium cores to us."

>CEO
"If you decide to go to China, you might want to return some of that Hot Fusion technology. It would make this much easier."

>>1825728
>CEO
"Yes, but at an even more staggering energy cost. The Nursery itself might, at best, have enough power to craft enough material for a small GECK every year. A GECK like the Vault Models would take even longer."

>Diana
"Do remember that much of the power here is also being used to sustain the Nursery itself."

>CEO
"We could build more powerplants, but much better still build more Cold Fusion plants. Time consuming but more practical.

Of course the fastest way is for you to get Hot Fusion. We could spend fissile material to directly produce Beryllium at much better conversion rates, and in turn, mass produce these GECKs or even build a full scale model."

>Brain
"Or we could take over hoover dam. Lots of power there."

>CEO
"That would work as well."
>>
Other proposed solutions are planned.

Summary of Joint Science Meeting for Greenification of the Big Empty.

Major Problem: Water

Solutions:
-Take over the Mojave. Divert the Colorado River

-Steal water from the NCR by diverting one of their rivers (They won't like that)

-Water from the Divide
[ ] Steal a sample of the Shi's Radiation Eating Vine
[ ] Dig a big river from our territory in the Divide to a big collection lake
[ ] Plant the Vine forests and build a) Large Conventional Water Treatment Plants b) Medium Vault Purifiers (Needs chips)

-Use GECKS
[ ] Fix the GECK Factory
[ ] Needs Beryllium
a) steal it from ICBMs (US or Chinese)
b) replicate it
-Needs Universal Replicator
-Needs LOTS of power and/or Fissile
>>
>>1825750
There should still be some ICBM's In the divide unless those disappeared "Under mysterious circumstances"
>>
>>1825768
>Brain
"Of course, there are the ones we know on the way to the Mojave, and possibly more.

Though, if I recall, we are saving those for a very 'Cloudy' day are we not? I consider that most prudent thinking."
>>
>>1825768
>OOC
There should also be at least one Nuclear Missile in the Chinese sub in Fallout 4
>>
>>1825774
Depending on how much beryllium is in an ICBM vs how much we need for a Geck.
>>
>>1825775
But also an ICBM in the busted silo right after Ulysses perch.
>>
>>1825795
I dont remember tgat one but ill take your word on it.
>>
>>1825830
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Hopeville_missile_silo_bunker
One ICBM in Hopeville missile silo.

Also the missiles in Ulysses' temple.
>>
>>1825774
We have secured those silos, correct?

Are they able to actually launch the missiles?
>>
>>1825842
>We have secured those silos, correct?
Technically no on both accounts.

Actually by not launching the missiles a number of them got fucked up.

You'll need to send robots and start repairing them.
>>
>>1825870
Riiiiight.

Well that's a priority for next turn.

Could you please mark the silo locations on the map of the Divide?

Also, did our military clear out that point of interest in the top east?
>>
>>1825880
>Also, did our military clear out that point of interest in the top east?
Not yet, but they're making good progress
>>
>>1824502
And again, I completely agree with you. This moralfaggotry is insidious. When they cant adequately defend their ideas they revert to bullying tactics and name calling. Truly, master orators.

>>1824608
>Most people aren't sociopaths like you.
Case and point.

We will just have to wait and see wont we? That clones are actually not suicide freaks and depressed loners. You know, like actual people instead of your twisted mental image.
>>
>>1825767
>[ ] Steal a sample of the Shi's Radiation Eating Vine

do we really need to steal it? Can't we just trade for it?

>b) Medium Vault Purifiers (Needs chips)
Iirc, Vault City should have shitloads of them lying around.
>>
>>1825899
Actual people have actual childhoods, and have actual experiences.
>>
>>1825908
Here you go again. You do realize that I disagree with your arbitrary dismissal of implanted memories being somehow terribly shit right? I disagree that clones will immideately get depressed and run away or kill themselves. This is frankly just your assumptions. What I am assuming is more than just 2-dimensional cookies and that they might actually like being alive, as alien as this concept is to you.

So instead of clogging up the board with more of your shit I say this: Let us see. If we do the homosex kids we can do a few test clones as well and see how they react. If it is bad, I acquiesce, no clones and only droids. If they are not, in fact, single-minded hate spewing bigots I support making more.

So does this quell you or do you still want to flame on your half-baked concepts?
>>
>>1825922
That doesn't relate to anything. Homosex kids would be babies, and grow up with real memories and experiences, which is a whole different animal from fake memories.
>>
boy this clone stuff is really hotly debated.
>>
>>1825905
We can fly in, take a plant from wherever and be gone before they notice. If we want to trade they will ask an arm and a leg for it. We can maybe ask them for the radioactive fruit. They can offload them without fee to us. No pollution on their part and free fissile for us. Would also get us the plant.

I dont get why the Vault-Tec purifiers are unable to be scaled up. The purifier in F4 (Vault 88) is a larger version than other purifiers, so it CAN be scaled up. Also that thing looks big enough to do many hundreds of liters per minute, judging by the pipe diameters. So it definitelt can be done. I think our panel of scientist should consult their material once again.

And yes, Vault City had a shit ton but the NCR has probably moved them.
>>
>>1825939
>We can fly in, take a plant from wherever and be gone before they notice.

I doubt that. They have radars and shit, and our spacecraft seems to be unable to avoid them. I mean MLA of all people noticed and shot us from the sky.
>>
>>1825931
What I was referring to, in case you need a refresher on biology, was the fact that both cloning and homosex baby making starts from a single cell that has a specific, tailor-made DNA sequence. Whether this is a mix of two parents or a specially selected one doesnt matter. The only difference would be how large we let it grow before we pop it out. If you want homosex kids you need to solve the cloned dead issue and at that point you can make clones (I feel as if the word "clone" is somehow offensive to you. Lets use the term "engineered human" EH, for short.).

>>1825934
Well yes, I dislike moral reasons to shut down an avenue of advance. And lets not kid ourselves, this is a moral objection, not an actual objection.
>>
>>1825947
You may be right. Still, we can land somewhere safe and go sneak our way to San Fran. They have the vines all over so they are not all protected. We can grab a few that way. Maybe even "find" some other nice stuff.
>>
>>1825949
There is no issue with making normal clones. A cloned baby is fine. The issue is making a slave workforce out of adults with implanted memory. The levels of strawman your side seems to need would fill all the barns in the world.

I like how you just say "It's only a moral issue" ignoring actual arguments to not bother with implanted memory people like >>1823527
>>
>>1825964
>Clones will automatically become slaves

This part I just can't agree with.
>>
>>1825987
It's not traditional slavery, but it is essentially brainwashing them, and giving them a choice when you have programmed them to not choose what you don't want. I don't know about you, but that is not the life of a free-man.
>>
>>1825964
You deflect and divert and call names. You are very bad at this. Again I must clarify: When we can make babies we can make some adult clones, implant them with memories and see how they fare. If they immideately break down and try to kill themselves then I will stop supporting this action. However, and this seemingly terrifies you, when they act like normal people we can definitely use them.

>>1825987
Double for me.

>>1825992
And here you go again. Your sense of moral justice. Lets just make the damn things and see for ourselves, shall we?
>>
>>1825999
I call names? When all you do is stick your fingers in your ears and cry "Moral arguments don't count", ignoring actual arguments based on net gain and efficiency and safety for the state? There is more to the clones than them breaking down. There is the fact that they are a waste of resources.

Also you are acting very superior for someone on the side of >>1821897 Who has a very strong predilection for COD tier "I had sex with your mother" insults.


What do you mean see for ourselves? They either are a slave or they aren't. We would be brainwashing them and putting them to work, so they would be slaves.
>>
>>1826005
You just cant stop foaming at the mouth, can you? As I told you, many times in fact, we just have to wait and see, wont we? Whether clones are actual people with different opinions than your own (and I am sure that with a big enough sample size we will also find your type of depressed clones, so you, too, have something to look forward to).

As to the anon you cited, am I responsible for what he says? Hardly. Do I agree with his points? Yes. Is this a cheap way to try and discredit me? Nice try chump.

And again, you are assuming they will be unable to comprehend free thought. That instead of judging for themselves they blindly follow the program (seems kind of cookie cutter, dont it?) instead of act like actual, albeit highly educated, people and decide for themselves after seeing what we do.

And dude, I was happy to wait and see how this turns out. Seems to me you literally cant let go for fear I am right and your snowflake ideas are not actually reflected in society. So once again, Once Again, let us wait and see how this turns out. If the test batch is horrendous and nothing can be done about it, fine. If not, we can use them. Especially since making clones and making computers is not mutually exclusive.

Did I get through to you?
>>
back, writing
>>
Following all this shitposting and manchildren flexing their internet dicks at each other is quite tiresome while waiting for OP to post..
>>
>>1826058
Isnt it entertaining though? :)

On a more serious note, you are right.
How much turn is left for QM to write?
>>
>>1826058
I don't know. I'm kinda entertained.
This might be the longest argument we had yet.
>>
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>>1820328
>Con
Build the spy satellite
Even with replication, it takes many months of trajectorial calculation, painstaking assembly, and careful calibration.

Wisely, you decide NOT to build the actual true satellite in case something goes wrong, and instead create a dummy satellite with the basic navigational systems.
With the Camera and Lens technology available, the furthest away from the earth a (small) Satellite will be able to be is 20,000m but more effective pictures will be taken at 10,000. Truth be told this isn't so much a true Satellite as it is a very high altitude drone.

At last the fateful day. At the end of the month, you take it up halfway there! You're still afraid of heights and mercifully the machine is able to climb up into the air for you, as it heads off on its first orbit around the world and you await its return.

Your scientist turn to the eastern sky, waiting for the radio signals to herald the first successful satellite launch in the world in centuries!

It never comes. . .

>con't
>>
>>1826085
>You
[So what happened]

>ZAX(RND)
"We don't know.

Anything could have happened. It ran into a weather anomaly. Solar flareup. We miscalculated one little number or forgot a single bolt.


>ZAX(MAJOR)
"Or someone shot it down"

>You
[NCR?]

>ZAX(RND)
"Nah. It passed over California. Last we knew, it was going over the pacific ocean before we lost contact."

>You
[Dammit. So what can we do?]

>ZAX(RND)
"Hmmm. Short of finding out exactly what happened to it, we could just build a different kind of satellite."

>Dr. 0
"My Rocket Science is a bit spotty, but couldn't we build one with a Geo-static orbit?"

>ZAX(RND)
"A natural one? Not if we wanted to have decent pictures.

But it is possible in another way. We'd just need a satellite with the power and energy capability to sustain a position high in the atmosphere. It wouldn't be an orbital satellite by any means."

>Dr 0
"It wouldn't be a satellite at all. It'd just be a really high up hovering camera holder."

>ZAX(SPI)
"But it would give us the pictures we need."

>Looks like we'll have to try again next month, these things aren't built in a week
>>
>>1826096
well thats a downer. did we have a tracker in the shot down satellite?
>>
>>1826096

Doesn't Diana have a satellite? Does it orbit the earth or stay in place?
>>
>>1826102
Indeed. If it is still out there intact and active, you should be able to hear its ping.

If you are close enough to where it is and nothing is in the way.

>>1826104
Diana's satellite is a Communications Satellite mostly made to relay messages and radio signals as well as provide GPS, but it is not a Camera Satellite.
>>
>>1826104
It does orbit though
>>
>>1826108
>>1826106

Does it have higher altitude than what we sent?
>>
>>1826106
Somewhere over the pacific, is the in our scout ships flight range?
>>
>>1826111
Yes

>>1826112
Techincally yes, but you've never flown that far over ocean.

And its scary
>>
>>1826112
>>1826113

hell no, we're not flying there.

Lets just make a satellite which stays in place. We only need it to get a look on neighboring territories
>>
>>1826116
I'm not saying do it right next turn, but eventually were going to fly over in the china direction for the Hot Fusion Reactor plans. We can look see what shot down our satellite while were in the area.
>>
>>1826096
Now, I agree that spaceflight is complex. I agree that we dont have the facilities to make moon missions. However, what I cant agree to is the appearant lack of a decent camera. 10 km up is commercial plane hight. The best in aeroplane camera tech and deployment was the Lockheed Blackbird, which flew at mach 3.5, up to an altitude of 25 km (normal height of around 13), and shot pictures where individual vehicles were discernible. This means that a resolution of around 2 meters was achieved by the plane at atltitudes of 10+ km. And the best part? It was made in 1964. And you are telling me that with a literal century of development this is the best we can do (not even that, it seems)? I understand power concerns and orbital time but a shit camera is the wrong excuse. Furthermore, with the US in Fallout having been on, and indeed having fought on, the Moon I see them advancing satellite tech as much as possible. This includes spy satellites with advanced sensor suites, not to mention a shitty optical camera. I dont presume they could take pictures like the Hubble, though I see why they should be able to, but being worse than 1964 is absurd.
>>
>>1826118
we'll go along Alaska through Russia. No way in hell are we crossing the ocean.
>>
>>1826121
I did mention it was with current satellites and camera technology you have on hand.

BigMT wasn't a space research center. You'd want to go to NASA in Florida for that or more appropriate space and aviation centers.

Repco would be good, but last you checked the Legion tore it down.
>>
>>1826125
>>1826125
Whats wrong with crossing the ocean? What about any potential military base / salvage in Hawaii and all of Americas Island bases in the Philippines?

Again, I'm not saying "Do It now!" I'm thinking it would be best to wait until we have done more research into the Scoutship, or built a couple of Airships designed for long distance travel.

Or hell, even Robot drone a long distance spy plane.
>>
>>1826126
>Repco would be good, but last you checked the Legion tore it down.
Legion needs to stop breaking shit.
>>
>>1826126
No no, I dont think BigMT has astronomy style mirror lenses that pick up half the sky at once. I find it ridiculous that BigMT with all its tech, databanks and brains cant come up with a camera that takes pictures better than one 100 years ago(300, but you get what I mean). I realize that if we want to spot Yaunker picking his nose from high orbit we need a space center but that we cant spot troop movements, buildings or infrastructure from 100 km up is ridiculous.
>>
>>1826121
By the way, technology in fallout is both more or less advanced than their real life counterparts.

For example, the Lockheed P-80 Shooting Star was the first, and last, American Jet Fighter, the only one to ever enter mass production by the year 2077. Most other fighters of the time were still propellor craft.

The Sherman Tank was still being produced in large numbers by 2077 as well, primarily as a "Light Tank" though it wasn't the USA's main battle tank and was outclassed by other larger models such as the M60A3 Patton. However the Sherman was still the most numerous.

Rumors did persist of far far more advanced tank models than even these but if they ever achieved fruit nobody knows.

>>1826132
Research doesn't come from thin air, you need actions for it
>>
>>1826132
Anon by the way I don't know if I mentioned this before, but trying to mirror real life technology with fallout and my quest technological development is pretty wonky.

Remember, black and white TV's were still the standard by the year 2077, alongside psudo-sentient servant robots.

You guys still watch things in black and white, the only colored stuff is holograms which both Old World and New World is typically a wealthy thing.
>>
>>1826133
>>1826137

Got it. Please continue with the turn update.
We'll research better optics for higher altitude satellites/drones/whatever
>>
>>1826132
>
Also, with an altitude of 100 km no other power could touch them (that we know of). SSO craft are few and far between, with our alien tech (and Crypto, that asshole) being the only real ones.

>>1826133
>Rumors did persist of far far more advanced tank models than even these but if they ever achieved fruit nobody knows.
Yet they have microwave tanks of magic. And compared to that a better camera is childs play. Also, can you see a scenario where the US wouldnt want better spy tech? They disbelieved that china could have subs they could spot by satellite, which means their tech was pretty damn good. So again, I see not why this is such an exaggeration.

>>1826133
>Research doesn't come from thin air, you need actions for it
And BigMT has no misc. data on hand? No optical theory? Yet they make advanced laser weapons, satellite relay tech and other shenanigans. Makes no sense that something this minor, yet useful, be left out.
>>
>>1826140
>could
Could not, it should be.
>>
OP, I wanted to ask.

Since the Chinese Gatling cannon is based on C&C generals, does it have AA capabilities? In the game they were great at shooting down jets and shit. Can they shoot down missiles?
>>
>>1826140
It takes a research action to access the data archives and apply them to new designs.

Accessing data from an archive is quite literally research by definition.

>>1826144
>does it have AA capabilities
Of course

>Can they shoot down missiles
Big slow ones maybe. Probably not light and fast ones.
>>
>>1826140
>Yet they have microwave tanks of magic

>You
[You know, how in the hell did they get that?]

>ZAX(SPI)
"Has it ever occurred to you hon that maybe there's a reason you're in such disbelief on how accelerated the NCR's technology has gotten, if I am right, in the last 5 years or so? That you've never bothered to investigate any further?"

>You
[I did try. I visited their cities to find clues!]

>ZAX(SPI)
"So your plan was to search for classified military technology in large civilian centers where large crowds of civilians are.

C'mon muscles, use that big noggin of yours. Its sitting there watching you.

Honestly I could lead a better spy program but you don't even bother to give me actions."
>>
>>1826151
I'm fine with giving you actions once we have a second construction action to build your stuff.

Also slightly unrelated but its not said enough anyways, Fuck oddball.
>>
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>>1826145
>With the Camera and Lens technology available, the furthest away from the earth a (small) Satellite will be able to be is 20,000m but more effective pictures will be taken at 10,000.
So what you mean to say is that a small satellite (how small is it exactly?) is unable to have good equipment on it and that we need larger ones for that?

Here is a comparison of IRL satellites and their sizes. Judging by the stuff we have seen in F3 museums and NV repcon I dont see anything being larger than what is pictured here. If that is the case, why do we need a month to replicate a tiny satellite? Could we make a large one and shove it up to ISS height and have it stay there? Could that, then, detect vehicles and troops on the ground? Could we also give it a full sensor suite? Missiles? Lasers?

Basically, why is a small satellite so expensive and if the cameras for small ones are so shit, how large would the good camera satellite be?
>>
>>1826151
What do you want to do then?
>>
>>1826145
>Big slow ones maybe. Probably not light and fast ones.

What kind were the ones which were used against Riddick and Cain?

>>1826151
hmm, you know, we might have been pre-mature in building satellite. We probably should have given SPI an action to develop a multi-stage plan for for MAXIMUM INTELLIGENCE gathering.
>>
>>1826126
*USSA not NASA

>>1826156
>comparison of IRL
Anon you keep doing that you silly billy

>comparison of IRL satellites
Lot of calibration, replication of fine parts, making sure everything works before sending it up, rigorous analysis of the craft before launch so if something fails you'll know why, stuff like that.

From what records of BigMT are known, the Commonwealth had a MASSIVE space program particularly in regards to orbital weapons. Some were big enough to have permanent crew of dozens, or even hundreds. BigMT just wasn't in that field to be all too experienced at it.

There is no ISS.

---

A large camera with a higher orbit is possible. But you'd need to start up your own space program for that, with a much bigger rocket, and possibly need several trips. The reason you guys chose small was that your UFO could help lift it up reasonably.
>>
>>1826160
>What kind were the ones which were used against Riddick and Cain?
Small fast and numerous

>>1826158
"See what I can do with the tech we have here and come up with ideas! for one"
>>
>>1826165
what would we need to start up our own space program?

on top of all our other numerous projects?
>>
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>>1826165
If this picture is right, there is some kind of a space rocket facility underground in Big MT
>>
>>1826165
You missed my point. The chart shows the different sizes of IRL satellites. This is in comparison to things we have seen in the games which are hardly any larger, I would argue even smaller (especially considering repcon). Thus, since we have seen nothing so large as to exclude the sizes on the chart, I have to conclude the sizes are somewhat applicable. And since we have an alien ship that can go hundreds of miles I see no problem with going 100 km up and setting into motion our own little beeper.

And I am not saying that any of the IRL stuff exist, it is just a measure to show how things developed in 50 years. Now give Fallout another 50. Also consider the fact that espionage is the primary driver for space tech.

>>1826165
>A large camera with a higher orbit is possible.
How small is small and how large is large? In comparison to a VW Beetle. And why does it take a month to replicate the small satellite?
>>
>>1826168
That is repcon sized and manned, meaning that such a small ship can AT LEAST make it into orbit and back down again.
>>
>>1826168
we still need to explore our underground.

so much shit we need to do
>>
>>1826168
>Dr 0
"I remember that!"

>You
[Well where is it]

>Dr 0
"I dont know. It probably moved'

>You
[What do you mean 'moved']

>Dr 0
"Oh you know Klein. He liked to to rearrange the landscape a lot. Was never satisfied with any set up of BigMT. Had to stop that after some serious energy cuts for some reason."
>>
>>1826174
Oh come on. Now you are literally cutting stuff out so we wouldnt have it. Not cool man.
>>
>>1826174
So it is still here somewhere?

>>1826172
I guess.

Speaking of underground. We really should go and kill that evil thing under there. Grab the forecaster for help
>>
>>1826169
There's a lot more to space than you see or is let on in Fo3.

Perhaps if you were to find an appropriate American military base you'd get the bigger picture.

And, like SPI said, trying to guage military ability based on civilian info is silly.

>Now give Fallout another 50
Actually I'll give fallout 252 years, subtract 675, and multiply by the square root of fish.

Thats about as accurate as you can get with comparing development of fallout technology with real life technology.
>>
>>1826177
That is concept art anon
>>
>>1826184
As in, technically speaking wasnt part of the game to begin with but like Van Buren content is at discretion to be in the Quest.

So it can't be said I'm cutting it out.
>>
>>1826181
>There's a lot more to space than you see or is let on in Fo3.
The point is they accomplished a moon mission with a craft smaller than the one used IRL. Their shit-tier satellites were also smaller. So even if it is civilian show-and-tell crap it still stands to reason that the actual advanced craft are also advanced enough not to be the size of buildings (considering spaceflight is very expensive).

>>1826181
>Thats about as accurate as you can get with comparing development of fallout technology with real life technology.
The point, again, was not to say "we should have a Hubble for free" but rather the development does not stagnate. You want a better toy than the other kid and statistically, great advances were made during the cold war (like the Moon missions, for example). Now consider that Fallout itself is what happened after 150 years of cold war. Again, it is reasonable to assume tech has gone they way of small and powerful (like PA).

>>1826184
I apologize for my outburst. I was mistaken.
>>
>>1826169
>And why does it take a month to replicate the small satellite?
Lot of calibration, replication of fine parts, making sure everything works before sending it up, rigorous analysis of the craft before launch so if something fails you'll know why, stuff like that.
>>
>>1826189
>Now consider that Fallout itself is what happened after 150 years of cold war
>development does not stagnate
Depends on which development aspect.

The television of 2077 is almost literally the same as it was in 1950.

The Sherman Tank is still being used in 2077, as much as it was in 1941.

> Again, it is reasonable to assume tech has gone they way of small and powerful
Explicitly false in the majority of cases.

Fallout Tech is in general Big and Powerful!
>>
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>>1826189
The telephone of 2077 is the same as it was in 1950
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>>1826190
Again, give a comparison of size. How large is large, how small is small. Also, replicate the whole thing at once and run tests on it then. Also, the if wed know what caused the failure wed not have failed. You cant really check that ahead of time. You can do a systems check and go from there. Also, a small satellite that flies and takes pictures at 10 km up is not space tech it is a drone. And we have been making drones that dont fall down randomly for quite a while. Even more complex, they hack and repair stuff. It is obviously not that complicated for us.
>>
Trying to stay awake for the turn, but I fear i may pass out soon.

>>1826192
If I do pass out, thanks for running QM
>>
>>1826192
Microfusion cells, handheld laser weapons and PA. Literally small and powerful. And the TV and telephone you brought up is not a national security concern, unlike intelligence is.
>>
>>1826193
Also, lets move on with the turn.
>>
>>1826194
>Again, give a comparison of size
Hmmm. Not sure why thats so relevant, but I would imagine something like matress sized.

> Also, replicate the whole thing at once and run tests on it then.
Replicated stuff has a tendency to not be so very well calibrated. Good enough for holorifles and robots and tanks, but the most high quality stuff needs a check over by hand or repairbot. and that isn't quick, essnetially they still have to take it apart anyway and make sure each screw is on right.

>And we have been making drones that dont fall down randomly for quite a while.
Not drones meant to circle the globe or enter that high altitude

>It is obviously not that complicated for us.
Not according to my assessment. Its quite complex.

>>1826198
PA is very large and powerful.

Also the energy weapons of fallout are actually quite bulky compared to something like Star Wars or Star Trek, or even modern laser pointers.

They aren't very streamlined at all, only stuff like the Zetan Technology
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>>1826198
>TV and telephone you brought up is not a national security concern,unlike intelligence is.
I would say from a meta perspective it would be very much an intelligence for generals using dial phones when you should have been using smart phones with PDF viewing capability for battle maps 50 years ago with voice recording and multi-call capability. Surely that would be an intelligence concern.

But technological development isn't exactly the same as divination. You can't really know what you've not invented.

What was it Rumsfeldt said?
"Things we know"
"Things we know we don't know"
"and Things we do not know we don't know"
>>
>>1826198
Computers are another thing. In many cases, they are even more powerful than our IRL computers, but they are also larger and have some limited capabilities (no mouse for example).
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>>1826203
>PA is very large and powerful.
Was meant to replace a tank. Have the person be protected and carry heavy weaponry easily.

>>1826203
>Also the energy weapons of fallout are actually quite bulky compared to something like Star Wars or Star Trek, or even modern laser pointers.
We are not starwars and comparing laser pointers is whack. The closest IRL to this is outfitted onto planes and ships. We have them the size of pistols.

>>1826203
>They aren't very streamlined at all, only stuff like the Zetan Technology
What? I am saying that national security is more important in a cold war then having a nice phone or colour TV.

>>1826203
>Replicated stuff has a tendency to not be so very well calibrated. Good enough for holorifles and robots and tanks, but the most high quality stuff needs a check over by hand or repairbot. and that isn't quick, essnetially they still have to take it apart anyway and make sure each screw is on right.
The this id doubly true for our microchips, do they get looked over? What the hell does that then?

>>1826203
>Not drones meant to circle the globe or enter that high altitude
We are talking 10 km up. This is not high altitude. This is commercial flight. We have drones for that. And they dont need to circle the globe, just our enemies. What you are describing as a space craft is actually more like pic related. And that sure as hell doesnt need rockets or astronavigation to function. If we actually go into orbit, fine. Currently, we are making a plane, not a satellite. Even at 20 km up.
>>
I'm not annoyed, but I'm just sort of baffled and at my wits end as to why anyone would remotely try to bring in IRL comparisons of technological development or even the notion that technological development in fallout can be guaged by any sort of standard of time or real life comparison.

It makes 0 sense.

It's like asking why the 7x7 equals 49, when purple is at the end of the rainbow and President Truman isn't on Mt. Rushmore.

You're only going to end up with non-answers.
>>
>>1826207
So you are saying that because they dont know about smartphones they can not see the advantages of better spi satellites or better orbital cameras? This was literally the reason for the Space Race, along with orbital weapons. Stands to reason it is going on in Fallout as well.

>>1826209
Pipboy with built-in GPS-equivalent (without satellites, no less), radio recievers, huge databanks and a medical suite. Seems pretty powerful to me for such a small thing.
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>>1826211
I am saying, and I hope you agree here, that if a president knew the chinese were up to something, he would want to know. Moreover, he would want to know in a way the opposition wouldnt know he was watching. So he funds means to get the information as accurately and as reliably as possible.

This is afforded by satellites. And again, I am not saying we should have Hubble in our back yard but that people will use the opportunities given to them to better their position and I hope you agree, that space is a great opportunity. It is exactly the reason we want to get up there, to see what the NCR is doing. It would seem logical that the US of old would also want similar things.

Does this seem reasonable to you?
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>>1826210
>Was meant to replace a tank.
Power armor was meant to give a man power armor, not replace a tank. Otherwise the US wouldn't still have invested in tanks.

>What the hell does that then?
Robots / robot factory, but mostly for the most fine tuned microchips.

>I am saying that national security is more important in a cold war then having a nice phone or colour TV.
Certainly, but the importance does not dictate technological develoment.

Having a smart phones and colored pictures are actually very important to the cold war and national security, in fact those technologies partly came from the cold war irl. But they didn't in Fallout which shows that the technological development varies despite the need (national security) being the same.

>This is not high altitude.
High altitude for your drones.

>This is not high altitude.
Commercial flight . . .where? IRL statistics? I hope you're not trying to bring that in here again.

Also the thing you launched into the air isn't using Rockets so much as finely tuned high performance propulsor lift. Bigger versions of what powers eyebots and mr handy's.
>>
>>1826216
>Does this seem reasonable to you?
Certainly, all of what you said is true.

But none of it has any bearing on size, complexity, the direction or dimensions technological developments, or what is achieved as a result.

In fact, all of what you said is a applicable to asking a few fellows to get on a hot air balloon and take drawings of the landscape, as it is to IRL high performance satellites.

>So you are saying that because they dont know about smartphones they can not see the advantages of better spi satellites or better orbital cameras?
Exactly!

They can't know what "better" is, they can only know what they are able to develop.

Even if our IRL technology is better than theres, it has no bearing on them because they don't have us as a comparison.

So their best cameras and satellites, even if in many regards are not better than ours (while in others regards ARE better than ours) they can't compare themselves to us to say 'hey we should be better like those guys from the earth which didnt get bombed yet).

So yes, they can't make better spy satellites or better orbital cameras than us because they can't actually see the potential for technologies we have achieved.

>Seems pretty powerful to me for such a small thing.
It does doesn't it? Like the Platinum Chip.

Again, Fallout Technology is not at all uniform, homogenous, or even guagable by any reasonable standard.
>>
>>1826217
>>Was meant to replace a tank.
In the wastes of alaska where vehicles were hard to get to.

>>1826217
>importance does not dictate technological develoment.
It literally does. A national level funding campaign shifts massive resources to projects and speeds up advances.

>>1826217
>Commercial flight . . .where? IRL statistics?
Skylane flights from F4 where jetengine passanger planes flew.

>>1826217
>Also the thing you launched into the air isn't using Rockets so much as finely tuned high performance propulsor lift. Bigger versions of what powers eyebots and mr handy's.
If this is too complex to be reliable then the brains have made a grave error in judgement. The propeller drone I posted runs on fuel and flies up to 15 km) This is a prop craft that flies reliably and can carry up to 340 kg with it. Again, why does BigMT not achieve these simple things while being able to engineer death robots, mutant beasts and holograms, not to mention replicators.
>>
>>1826222
>Skylane flights from F4 where jetengine passanger planes flew.
Ah, okay. I haven't played F4 did they mentioned the altitude ceiling of those and statistics?

I'm trying to integrate some basic elements of F4 but I won't be so very familiar with the lore. I'm operating on stuff FNV to earlier.
>>
>>1826220
>So yes, they can't make better spy satellites or better orbital cameras than us because they can't actually see the potential for technologies we have achieved.
Holy hell dude. What even. You equate the fact that they dont know about color TV to them not understanding the benefits of tech advancement in spaceflight areas. How is that even connected?? I am not implying they rush for the Hubble telescope. I am saying that they see the need for better stuff. Just as we see the need for a better Securitron, despite never having previously had a tankitron. This is my point.

>>1826220
>In fact, all of what you said is a applicable to asking a few fellows to get on a hot air balloon and take drawings of the landscape
Yes, and when you see he is shit at drawing you get someone better at it. Then you replace the balloon for a better one so it could go places faster and so on. This is the basis for technological advancement. If the government dictates that inetlligence is needed and they will pay for a better variant then people will make better variants. Is someone comes up with the same thing but smaller, they invest in that (again, spaceflight is very expensive).
>>
>>1826222
>why does BigMT not achieve these simple things while being able to engineer death robots, mutant beasts and holograms, not to mention replicators.
Welcome to fallout!

Where technology is different

Also because repuslors have better maneuverabiliy than propellors. Which is why Mr Hany's and Eyebots aren't noisy spinning blade machines.

>>1826222
>It literally does.
I'm sorry but it doesn't.

Even though the goals of technological needs are the same, they do not change the way technology develops between settings.

If a King from a medieval Kingdom sets the importance to military, they can only develop trebuchets and siege equipment. If a president wants to develop military, he can research tanks and airplanes.

The importance is the same, but the direction is different because they are completely different settings.
>>
>>1826223
Gotcha.

I would reason they would fly as high as possible, considering the speed and fuel efficiency is better at higher altitudes. Also the reason IRL planes fly that high.
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>>1826225
I'm saying that "better" is relative anon. You are suggesting that "well the fallout technology should be better because they would have focused on this" when their technological development is inherently different than ours. Bigger or smaller, more advanced or less advanced. You are wondering why technology seems so backwards and less advanced than you think it is when the setting is not real life and shouldn't be compared to real life.

If something is terrible or seems less efficient or less effective than what you think it should be, its because what you think it should be is not what it is in fallout.

> Is someone comes up with the same thing but smaller, they invest in that
That the path we chose.

But it doesn't mean thats the pat h they chose.

Better does not have a standard meaning.

The Germans of WW2 defined better as bigger badder Tiger Tanks. The Soviets and Americans defined better as smaller, mass producible shermans and T34's.

Ultimately one side one, the smaller mass producible tanks, but the definition of better was not universal or comparable because they had different mindsets.
>>
>>1826227
>as high as possible
As high as possible compared to what?

> IRL planes fly that high.
We know how high IRL planes fly is what you mean, not fallout planes.
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>>1826226
>I'm sorry but it doesn't.
How do you think rocketry became a thing in the first place? After the Nazi fall, massive investments were pushed at this tech, speeding up the developement. When the USSR sent up sputnik the US rushed to respond in kind, again, speeding up developement. This whole thing calmed down when the orbital armistice was signed and the threat of space nukes or moon lasers was reduced.

>>1826226
>Where technology is different
Yet physical concepts as a whole remain. Like the fact they, too, first built prop craft before going jet.
>>
>>1826225
>You equate the fact that they dont know about color TV to them not understanding the benefits of tech advancement in spaceflight areas. How is that even connected?
Because they do NOT see the specific tech advancements in spaceflight areas that we chose (i.e. smaller, faster, more lightweight)

They did in fact, choose a different set of tech advancements. Bigger! Slower! Heavier!

> I am saying that they see the need for better stuff.
And they did get better stuff, the way they saw it

Not the way you or I see it because our world is different. They would probably wonder why our technology isn't like theres "so fragile, so small, so weird."
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>>1826229
See, what I meant was that if I give you a microfusion cell the size of a fridge and another man gives you one the size of a grape and they both produce the same results, you want the smaller one because you can stick that in a robot, for example.

Also, if they could figure out flight and thruster craft then making a simpler thruster for propulsion (not lift) craft (would also save on energy, meaning longer flight time)is not that outlandish.

>>1826230
>As high as possible compared to what?
You want to go to where the air is as thin as possible to reduce drag yet dense enough so your combustion can take place. For most engines this is around the 30(35) 000 ft. The reason they do this is to both make travel faster and to save money on fuel.
>>
>>1826231
The Space Race sped up development in the Fallout World as much as it did in our world. The importance of space development was recognized by both.

However, as I said before, it did not dictate the direction we took space development. Where we favored our designs of rockets and spaceflights (lightweight alluminium based craft that aren't nuclear powered).

The fallout folks took theirs in a different direction than ours, nuclear powered, bigger craft.

The importance is the same. The goal (improved spaceflight) is the same. The direction we took those goals and how it influenced design are different.

Again, just because we both stress an importance on spaceflight, and we both invest in it, the direction technology is taken is different. For example, we don't have as much fissile material as they do in fallout.
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>>1826233
>They did in fact, choose a different set of tech advancements. Bigger! Slower! Heavier!
But they didnt though. All the stuff we have seen of their space tech is as small, if not smaller, than ours. The worst offender is the Repcon shuttle. Refer to the first part of
>1826234 as to why.
>>
>>1826234
>For most engines this is around the 30(35) 000 ft.
Engines where?

Is this in a terminal?

I am going to hammer you silly anon if you keep trying to compare things to IRL! I dunno if I'm being obtuse, but I want to convey the message that even remotely trying to use IRL comparisons here is incredibly silly and not very useful for you

Now if a fallout computer terminal said that most jet engines achieve an altitude of 30/35000 feet for best effect, that would be different. I'd appreciate that.

> if they could figure out flight and thruster craft then making a simpler thruster for propulsion (not lift) craft (would also save on energy, meaning longer flight time)is not that outlandish.
Certainly but you need research for that.
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>>1826231
>How do you think rocketry became a thing in the first place?

Think back to aviation. The Wright brothers were completely unfunded by the govt and got it done. The government poured thousands of dollars into aeronautical research and it could not get it done even when there wass a clear and ever present need.

Need + funding != Development
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>>1826236
>All the stuff we have seen of their space tech is as small, if not smaller, than ours
I want to point out more specific examples why thats wrong anon, I really do, but I would be revealing spoilers.

Bear in mind this game isn't just based on Fallout 3 either, and again, as the SPI said, you are trying to rely your whole premise on what you see in a civilian museum which may not even be totally factual (or worse, an IRL chart).
>>
>>1825767
Why do we have to Greenify the BigMT? I like the protection advantages the desert provides.
>>
Hmm, 6;00 est

I wonder if this is when my daytime anons usualy wake up.
>>
Rolled 47 (1d100)

>>1820328
>Spend time with family.
Rolling for reasons
>>
>>1826235
>The fallout folks took theirs in a different direction than ours, nuclear powered, bigger craft.
the only nuclear powered craft i know of is the F4 nuclear engine for mars and that was never used. However, what I know went to the Moon is the Delta IX rocket, and that is very much smaller than IRL variants, so no, they did not go "bigger badder" compared to IRL. And that was in 2020.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Delta_IX_rocket
>>
>>1826129
>Whats wrong with crossing the ocean?
The brain said there might be monsters in there or something.
Do you want to wake up Godzilla? I don't.
>>
>>1826244
I'm not saying all technology is different than ours.

Dammit I'd give you explicit examples of where they are, but I'd be dropping huge spoilers.

be aware anon that I'm also creating this quest based on lore from specific mods as wel
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>>1826238
>Again, just because we both stress an importance on spaceflight, and we both invest in it, the direction technology is taken is diff
And rocketry went nowhere until van Braun was given support by the nazi party. Same with spacefight and the US/USSR.

>>1826237
>Engines where?
This is a limit for combustion in general, not specific engines. This is also why most planes fly this high despite having many different engines from many different companies. As well, the F4 engines are described as "turbojet".

>>1826237
>Certainly but you need research for that.
How much? A turn to throw together a long flight time 10+ km altitude spi plane? Or more than that?

>>1826240
But I literally referenced a in-universe rocket that is small and got men to the Moon and back? What more do you want?? And how is this IRL??

>>1826242
You wound me.
>>
>Wasting QMs time when he could be writing the rest of the turn.
For fucks sake.
>>
>>1826251
I'm going to say that I built the setting without Fo4 in mind (as much) because I haven't been able to play and read the terminals there so well.

> A turn to throw together a long flight time 10+ km altitude spi plane?
Its not so much just the craft but also improving the lense system. Shouldn't be too hard but it can't come from nothing.

>But I literally referenced a in-universe rocket that is small and got men to the Moon and back?
You aren't wrong, in so much as to think that all Fallout space tech is like that is also wrong.

I'll just go ahead and say, there is more to fallout space in the setting than is revealed in Fo3.

Hmm, but there IS one thing I could give you that wouldn't be a spoiler. . .hang on. Lemme write it up.
>>
>>1826247
I know you are, which makes me apprehensive since Riddick is nowhere near compatible with Fallout and even the Frontier mod was pushing it. Aliens I can tolerate and hints to ancient evils but this is a bit too in your face for me. I liked the unexplained mysteries of the crashed ships, the weird whispers in the dark in creepy ruins and the knowledge that although huge advances are made, you wont come across some otherworldy crap.

This is also why I find the huge leaps in tech baffling. The Enclave, who is the gold standard for post-apocalypse tech spent years trying to perfect PA and vertibird tech. Bear in mind, also, that they had access to all, ALL the advanced materials out there. Yet the NCR can out-do them in 5 years. This is ludicrous.
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>>1826253
Yes, well. . .I suppose its too easy for me to really get a bit too involved in these again. It still just bothers me when someone complains why technology doesn't act the way they perceive it to be and I want to try and tell anons they should drop all perceptions and presumptions because thats an integral part of the setting.

>>1826259
Well, Riddick is actually cannon in a Fallout Game (though the game itself isn't canon)

Even in those same settings where the Enclave are mentioned as the Gold Standard, they already had rivals.

The Shi are mentioned as being able to reverse engineer and build a Vertibird fleet within 2 years. Who do you remember the NCR integrated.

The NCR hasn't shown power armor explicitly more advanced than the Enclave, but they have shown advances in exoarmor.

But in general, yes the NCR has made huge leaps in tech. Baffling leaps in tech, leaps in tech the likes that you were able to make in 5 years from BigMT.

But why do you think that anon?

You need to find out more in setting that's why!

Shift from complaining why things are so strange and discover! I'm confused why when things are so obviously whack, you settle for just saying they are and not delving in deeper.
>>
As I write

CHOOSE:
>Do you have a specific outing in mind for any of your children OR wives?

It's actually been a while since you've had a romantic outing with any one of them. The stresses of leadership and all.
>>
>>1826263
Since your take on Fallout differs drastically from established Fallout games (especially the first 2) which I have come to love quite a bit. Also since I would like to believe I take things logically even in-system I dont see why you place arbitrary restraints on some of our dealings. For a current example, if the think-tank were intent on building something to take pictures from 10-20 km up why would they not build a plane? It doesnt need to be very agile but it does need to stay up long. It is cheaper and easier to construct and if shot down we dont lose any tech. As opposed to a handy variant that requires complicated calculations to orbit the globe although we only need to see our neighbours for now. Not to mention that at 20 km up this requires lots of power.

I think a lot of it boils down to you going by what we say not by what we mean. I understand that an imageboard is the wrong place to convey ideas (as the Clone Wars has shown) but with a character of nat 10 as well as the panel of superbrains they should be able to come up with something like this themselves. Or if our ideas are stupid, they should say "Hey, you cant into satelites right now, how about spiplanes to give you what you want for now?". This, I feel, is the core for a lot of the issues.

Also the moralfags but let that be a story for another time.
>>
>>1826265
A day in the city, show face to the people and try to make us and our company more approachable, as well as inspire loyalty. Then go picnic in the cacti gardens if they are so nice? Maybe dinner with the old lady cooking?
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>>1826266
>why would they not build a plane
I would imagine something hovering and stationary would be less fuel intensive than a plane which has to keep moving forward. So the stationary hover drone is more cost efficient.

Not to mention movement means less ability to focus in for better resolution.

>As opposed to a handy variant that requires complicated calculations to orbit the globe although we only need to see our neighbours for now.
You did ask for a Satellite.

Also again, this was a prototype. It was meant to show there was room for improvement. Much more.

>Since your take on Fallout differs drastically from established Fallout games (especially the first 2) which I have come to love quite a bit.
I can admit the quest does diverge in some places, but I would like to know what "drastically" means to you in regards to the first 2 games.

If anything I was hoping anons more familiar with the first 2 games would start to put the puzzle pieces together because A major part of the NCR plot is based from those 2 games.
>>
>>1826269
>I would imagine something hovering and stationary would be less fuel intensive than a plane which has to keep moving forward. So the stationary hover drone is more cost efficient.
Not the case. When hovering you have to overcome gravity, when flying you have to overcome friction. As seen by objects falling, not levitating in the air, gravity is substantially stronger than friction. The lift of aeroplanes is created by the profile of the wing which induces lift without significant increases in drag.

>>1826269
Yes, because our goal was to spi on our enemies. Since this project is going nowhere fast and a turn could have been used to make a spiplane instead, this is my point exactly. What we wanted was a way to spi on our enemies. We didnt know how well a satellite would accomplish that but had hopes of a IRL-like product (since we had no other reference). Thus, the thinktank should have realized that if we want satellites, we wont get good pictures yet, but if we want to spi, there are easier ways to accomplish this util we get satellites working the way we need them.

>>1826269
>If anything I was hoping anons more familiar with the first 2 games would start to put the puzzle pieces together because
This is more your subjective view. For me, this basically boils down to the NCR wanting to spread far and wide. I am sure that when you reveal what it is I may have an "Of course!!" moment but to predict something like this is very hard.

>>1826269
>but I would like to know what "drastically" means to you
Mainly the seemingly rampant tech use. Vertibirds were literally unmatched by everyone out there. The BoS admitted themselves they would get raped if they decided to pull something without their own birds and they couldnt figure it out themselves. Only when they got the plans did they start flying. And this is just an example of the issue I have. I understand that NV and F3 to a smaller extent introduced so much new tech that it becomes difficult to gauge the effects but the best that the NCR had in F2 were rifles. Not even laser but just rifles. And the van Graffs were not mass producers but retail sellers. And to mass-produce energy weapons on top of all the industry and infrastructure the NCR would need to pull off shit like this is frankly more fiction than science. Hence my internal logic concern.
>>
>>1826269
>Not to mention movement means less ability to focus in for better resolution.
Also, stabilizing calculations is not that big a deal. If a Handy can stabilize on just one thruster while moving its center of rgavity that much (remember, the center is above, not below the thruster) we can make a program that maintains stable contact from a plane doing straight flights or circles.
>>
>>1826253
This

For fucks sake. I went away for 2-3 hours then when coming back hoping to see substantial update but I come back to see that one autist wasted TWO FUCKING HOURS of time.
>>
>>1826274
Well, to answer some of your questions based on what is known, the NCR credits the Shi for the discovery and reproduction of Vertibirds. Up until then, all they could do was maintain what they had (most of which were taken from Navarro).

>And the van Graffs were not mass producers but retail sellers.
Somewhat.

>You
(Hmmm, yeah. Even supposing the entirety of the Van Graff arsenal and what production facilities they have, it doesn't entirely explain where the NCR is getting so many energy weapons. Even by Hoover Dam, they were mostly using the Service Rifle. This, as well as those big damn guns, are a leap.)
>>
>>1826265
Maybe bring our wives to nursery to romantic dates? You know, hice dinner, walk by the lake, etc.

making Diana jealous
>>
>>1826278
>>1826253
Oi you there, vote here if you can
>>1826265
>>
>>1826280
Since other anons are getting antsy I suggest we move on. If you take anything away from this is to consider both what we want and what we want it for. Not go by what we write but what we want done with the writing. This was adressed earlier and has improved, though I still feel that our nat 10 PC sometimes derps out.
>>
>>1826265
Oh, and how about just talking with them? Seeing how they feel, what they want, etc. I mean our wives. We barely interact with them at all. We should show them some attention.
>>
>>1826283
Picnic sounds nice.
>>
>>1826283

refer to >>1826267
>>
>>1826282
1 for this
>>1826285
1 for this
>>1826267
1 for this

If you guys are okay with all these just go ahead and say so.

---

On the topic of the Nursery, how do you wish to plan that out

>Tell Diana not to reveal your secret. Inform your wives, she is your newest "companion". Carefully reminder her your other wives and companions are not to be harmed
>Other?
>>
>>1826286
Picnic at the nursery sounds double nice.

We could build a simple bungalow or something like that before hand.

Actually, we should consider making a small resort at the Nursery for our people. I bet the morale would skyrocket

>>1826288
I'm okay with that


>Tell Diana not to reveal your secret. Inform your wives, she is your newest "companion". Carefully reminder her your other wives and companions are not to be harmed
Seems okay with me.
Perhaps we could also bring our children along to hang out with the tribals. It seems like Diana loves children and maybe if she sees us being a good family man, she'll improve her opinion of us?
>>
>>1826288
Keep them separate. She doesnt need to know what we do here and our people here need not know what we do there. Keep a connection for our Brain and AI, maybe?

Otherwise everything is ok, just dont go to the nursery.
>>
>>1826291
1 for no nursery
>>1826289
1 for nursery
>>
>>1826291
Support.
>>
>>1826293
No nursery.
>>
>>1826291
Support
>>
Alright, no Nursery.

Writan
>>
>>1826293
Also QM, i just want to remind you that the spy satellite plans that we had were pretty high tech, requiring alien metal among other things. I can't imagine we neglected the lens system during that that development. Stopping at a lens that wors at 10000 max, seems rather limiting
>>
>>1826301
All the more reason to research a better design.

By the way even you guys dont stagnate technologically. Sometimes you have much more tech available to you now than yuo did before
>>
Also we should really build some of those skeleton bots and see if they can fill a role in our army.
I'm think pure cannon fodder.
>>
>>1826306
Yes but the speed of other factions compared to ours is ludicrously faster. Especially considering where we are.

>>1826301
Also, this should be the first thing we make, not something we think about after we launch the damn thing.
>>
>>1826310
Remember that advancement isn't just a case of speed, but time.
>>
>>1826308
>I'm think pure cannon fodder.
Why waste the resources. I would like agile infantry to support large securitrons. Make them snipers, fast assault and so on. A role the lumbering securitron cant fill or would not be best/optimized at. The brunt of the assault should be on securitrons or tankitrons or whatever we name them.
>>
>>1826311
>Remember that advancement isn't just a case of speed, but time.
Salient purple out of their ass with a scrapjob machine. I rest my case.
>>
>>1826313
Hey look guys, I've discovered a salt mine.
>>
>>1826313
>BCR
"You know. We could make Salient purple. Easily.

We could have made it years ago actually. You just never bothered to advanced the technology."
>>
>>1826315
Try Salt Lake city. I jest.

>>1826316
Yet, at the time, everyone was baffled. And if it was so easy, why didnt our machine pipe up and say something? It was literally out of the blue. This is but one example.

But lets move on with the thread.
>>
>>1826316
Are salient green and purple actually different? I thought they just changed the name.
>>
>>1826312
>Why waste the resources.
Because they would be Cannon fodder that would shoot back, massive firing lines made up of skeleton bots that keep marching forwards no matter how many of them fall down.
But i like your fast assault role too, BX droid commandos instead of B1 battle droids, if we can make them reasonably cheap i'll support them instead of my idea.
>>
>>1826317
>Yet, at the time, everyone was baffled
Baffled mainly at how they got it, which seems obvious in retrospect, but also at the NCR's research capabilities.

> And if it was so easy, why didnt our machine pipe up and say something?
You were too busy with military projects to bother with culture, plus you never asked

>>1826318
Salient Purple has improved fruit and vegetable producing capabilities not limited to what salietn green could produce in game
>>
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>>1826319
>BX droid commandos
Those guys were chumps. I want us to eventually use IG-88 level badasses. Thats the bot that at one time almost literally killed everything in the galaxy. No stopping that guy.
>>
>>1826321
Compared to IG-88s? Definitely, however it would be pretty good for us to develop a cheap robot design that can be massed produced and with the added bonus of being capable of sniping and tactical reasoning, so i'd say BX droid commandos can still find a role in our army.
>>
>>1826324
Sure, I just mean that they can go far beyond that. And as to the wall of steel, I think the heavier securtrons are better in that regard. They are more durable and pack a bigger punch for any forward emplacements. The unmolested smaller droids can snipe off anyone who opposes the big bots. Besides, if we have to recycle many cheap ones it becomes a problem. Especially in hostile territory.
>>
>>1826285
>Seeing how they feel, what they want, etc. I mean our wives
Your wives have generally adjusted well to the role of being mothers, with a little (lot) of help from Alexis, Robots, Muggy, Lilly, Unity. They still have time to pursue the things they want to do, while having the kids at home.

You've encouraged them to take their kids to work when safe which sort of explains their personality development.

Christine watches her mommy Veronica tinker with SCIENCE alongside the other followers. A four year old won't learn much of it, but she's growing up just like her with her mothers dry humor. Seemingly, she does not mind things which frighten or seem weird to other children, like super mutants, talking dogs or the "Ghost Lady",
Wendy Gilbert mostly takes care of the house and enjoys having a nice clean home, but Richard gets bored of this and wants to be a soldier to which Wendy tries in vain to say how un-fun it really is.
Samuel spends time with Sonia who spends time by herself tinkering with radiation weapons. She's smart enough to give the big lad a heavy lead coat, which, along with helping mum carry heavy things, builds his strength
Royce reads Vanessa's books about the Old World and papers about the outside world and asks her all the time about the Capital Wasteland and the places she's been to and fro there and the Mojave, and explores the town.
From what you've seen of Xìnshǐ, she is raised among fellow Chinese and will likely grow up as the rest of them, and trained by Dandan as a Crimson Dragoon. Although you wonder if she will try to avoid this, considering the lethality of the program
Unity seems both busy and not busy. Evidently, you might find her sitting on a soft chair, painting a picture, or walking the flower gardens and she is instead organizing growth in Baker or talking to the Super Mutants telepathically. it always seems like a lot is going on behind those young blue eyes

---
>>
>>1826326
Yea but i don't think Securitrons can be our "Cheap cannon fodder" design, they already classify as heavy/superheavy infantry, they seem more like even better and stronger Super Battle Droids to me.
I'd certainly incorporate a lot of Securitrons in any frontline army.
>>
>>1826327
While talking to your wives, you get a picture of their wants and needs.

Veronica still wants to be treated like a lady. She wants to go on a fancy dinner party at a high class restaurant in the NCR, or at least a candlelight dinner "somewhere nice, maybe the nursery" and feel like a woman
Vanessa would like to go out "just like old times", a sleezy town in a sleezy bar eating delicious greasy food and bad, strong booze followed by a night in a hot motel
Sonia misses your "special" touch. To go out on the hunt, guns blazing and assholes dying, hyped and sweaty followed by some nasty freaky stuff in her latex outfit. yeah. . .
Wendy is just happy that you're around for the kid and that she's not living in a dump anymore. some windows would be nice. everyone wants windows. its been five years and we still don't have windows. she'd like that, and to please try and help Richard not become a soldier or tell him how awful it can be
Dandan keeps herself busy being a crimson dragoon, and is glad you still care about your daughter and her parents. She confides to you that she is curious about what its like to be an "American" woman, or rather, that she would like to go out and learn about other cultures. Partly because she wants to learn more for the Crimson Dragoons, but also because she's curious and it would be nice to spend time with you out there.

In short, a lot of your wives, while faithful, would enjoy spending more time with you. And they want a piece of you too.

>CHOOSE:
>Go out on separate dates. Expenses be damned don't forget the rubbers this time, I think this is enough
>Other?
>>
>>1826329
>and to please try and help Richard not become a soldier or tell him how awful it can be

She's asking the wrong guy to do that. Our brain might help though.

>Go out on separate dates. Expenses be damned
Don't use rubbers
>>
>>1826329
>everyone wants windows. its been five years and we still don't have windows.

You know just recently I was wondering and forgot to ask. Why hasn't anyone done at least half of what Oddball did? You know, setting up separate private run enterprises to meet local demands?
You'd think that someone would at least try their hand at rudimentary window making. They do have wealth of knowledge at hand by just asking Alexa.
I mean glass is just sand and we're in middle of desert wasteland.

What is stopping them? Maybe the state needs to give a push for private entrepreneurship? Like giving startup resources and capital?

>>1826329
And what about Unity?
>>
>>1826330
1 for this
>>
>>1826333
If i recall correctly there's some kind of glass mineral in Trona we could mine.
>>
>>1826333
You specifically told James Bond to not let another Oddball happen, which includes not letting people use government resources without express permission. Which includes the glass foundry and the mines.

They've answered petitions and surveys for years now but didn't get results.
>>
>>1826328
And I dont want cannon fodder. The concept itself is for something that soaks up bullets. Considering that most of the calibers the NCR uses fall short of anti armor I see no reason not to use the beefy securitron variants. Especially when we incorporate shields in them (for example, that only activate for rpg and the likes, reducing power drain from anti personell shrapnel and so on). And for the anti-material weapons users we would have many small sniper droids and assault droids moving around. Preferrably in stealth.

>>1826329
>>1826330
We have enough kids and this almost turned waifu quest last time so no. Spend time with each of them over the month (like dinner, saturday at the cacti farm or whatever)and dedicate our time to other pursuits. We cant waste a turn on catering to them only to dissapear for the next months. If anything, make it a sideline activity where we visit them throughout the time we are at BigMT, not a dedicated turn. Would also be far more stable.
>>
>>1826336
Do we have a mine in the glass deposit in Trona already? And a glass foundry too?
Can we get enough glass for all our people with just one action then?
>>
>>1826338
Yes.

For a long time now.
>>
>>1826337
>And I dont want cannon fodder.
Well then we're at an impasse, i'm gonna research better Skeleton bots next turn.
>>
>>1826336
What? When did that happen?
Jeez, if people can solve these minor demands themselves, just let them. We won't get another Oddball happening now that we have MAXIMUM SURVEILLANCE

>They've answered petitions and surveys for years now but didn't get results.
What petitions?

>>1826337
>If anything, make it a sideline activity where we visit them throughout the time we are at BigMT, not a dedicated turn. Would also be far more stable.
I think OP just enjoys writing these things too much. I have suggested this several times before.
>>
>>1826336
If anyone said "I will make glass windows for you if you let me" I see no reason why we would shut him down. If he wants pay for it, give him extra credits to spend for his job. Dont let them pay anything to eachother and have have the entropeneur be rewarded by us while giving away the goods for free. This makes us the power that dictates wealth. If they do a great job, they get more. This would also improve work ethics for the state.
>>
>>1826342
>I think OP just enjoys writing these things too much. I have suggested this several times before.
Then an update every few turns should be ok. Make it automatic. This also means that if QM forgets a few nothing bad will happen.
>>
>>1826342
You guys made several actions over the years asking "What do the people want" and this was one of them. Its not the only one, but its a repeater.

Alexis marked it as part of her list of "things a lot of people wonder/ask about"
>>
>>1826342
You can decide to do small things for now. Mostly, I just need confirmation from you guys before the Courier can do anything and also to have it written down that something did happen, so keeping it as part of a voted action is useful.

In the background the most that happens is the Courier keeps up with them so he doesn't 100% abandon them, at least when he's t bigmt.

If youd like, consider this as a "to-do list" and add a bit of it over time since you guys seem to function well with lists.
>>
>>1826345
What you are talking about is us using our turn to do this. If a citizen says he will do it himself, even if it takes him a year, we are all for it. Especially if it encourages initiative on their part.
>>
>>1826343
Nobody among the general pop knows how to make windows at home or has the glassmaking skills.
>>
>>1826343
>Dont let them pay anything to eachother

why the hell not? Just let the free market do its thing.
We never intended our society to take care of 110% of people needs. We provide a good quality of life by giving main necessities and even some luxuries but the rest they have to work out themselves.

We just can't provide for individual needs of every person.

>>1826345
Yes, but it was never stated that people could take care of that themselves if we allowed them. Using a civ or construction action for some windows always seems so low priority compared to all the other stuff we need to do.
>>
>>1826347
>Citizen
"None of us know how to make glass, there's no teaching programs for it, and even if we did there's no little workshop for us to do it.

Wouldn't it just make sense to use the factory and get it all done at once?"
>>
>>1826329
Seperate dates. Use rubbers. Or maybe a vasectomy if we don't just heal it away.
>>
>>1826349
>Yes, but it was never stated that people could take care of that themselves if we allowed them
Well, in a technical sense, they can't.

They need the factory, but the factory is governent owned and so are the resources.

>Using a civ or construction action for some windows always seems so low priority compared to all the other stuff we need to do.
Which is why its never gotten done.

Of course, if you want, you could build a civilian use glass workshop and blacksmith add some glass making tutorial to the school and say "you want it, then learn how to do it yourselves we're too busy" (in a nice and polite way of course)
>>
>>1826349
Refer to this post. Are you telling me the people are so desperate as to lobby year after year for windows, yet so lazy as to never bother to try to find out about this themselves? We must literally have the absolute dumbest and laziest pieces of shit for citizens.

>>1826333
>They do have wealth of knowledge at hand by just asking Alexa.
>>
gonna have to drive somewhere brb in a few hours
>>
>>1826348
>>1826350

Yeah, with trial and error, with the help of other people and Alexa with our engineers and companions like Raul, I'm sure they will be able to figure that shit out if we allow them to make use of foundries and mines when we are not using them.

>>1826336
>which includes not letting people use government resources without express permission. Which includes the glass foundry and the mines.
>>
>>1826353
>Of course, if you want, you could build a civilian use glass workshop and blacksmith add some glass making tutorial to the school and say "you want it, then learn how to do it yourselves we're too busy" (in a nice and polite way of course)


Just give them resources and maybe let them use some bots to do it themselves.

We can't waste an action building a small workshop. But an enterprising person or two could build one in their own time if we let them use our resources and tools. And then they can expand it themselves.
>>
>>1826333
>>1826353
>Brain
"hmmm. Oddball seems to have taken a lot of the ambitious and low level technical skills folk with him. I suspect there's a reason most of our non-scientist and engineer people are even more simpler farmer types than before.

And we didn't exactly add 'glassmith window making' as part of public programming. I'd need to check if we have that here in the archives somewhere, at worst we go to the NCR and get that info."
>>
>>1826353
Why the hell can the civvies themselves not read up on the process and ask an engineer to teach them on the side? The factory is not used for anything else and just sits there. If I was a jokel without windows I would look at my options and do the easiest one. If that happens to read a few weeks about glass making and having an engineer teach me a few pointers and the government would supply me with all the resources and even a bonus for doing it, hell yeah I would. Not only would I get windows but my social standing would go up because everyone else gets windows too.
>>
>>1826354
This is what the arcade was referring to as "the concept of seeking education is not well known these days"

Technically speaking your followers of the apoc DO have the info but they are also busy on government projects.
>>
>>1826358
>I'd need to check if we have that here in the archives somewhere, at worst we go to the NCR and get that info."
WHAT?? How the fuck did we make a glass foundry if we dont know how to glass. Have the civvies use the goddam foundry themselves. Even if they fuck up the first 10 batches we have no end of sand and the refuse can be reused anyway. We train citizens, citizens get more able to do things by themselves, citizens get windows for once in 5 years, we are still in control of everything. Win-Win all around.

What >>1826357 said.
>>
>>1826359
You know glass is a complicated process, especially high clarity plate glass, that requires a lot of startup that people don't have, and resources they can't get.

The trona mines are far away, inhospitable too, and any trona dug up is government property.
>>
>>1826358

Let them take our limo or RC van, give them money or things to trade and let them travel to NCR to get information, visit their workshops, etc. Have them be accompanied by one of our companion or two.

There is no reason for us to spend an action for this if they can somehow figure it out themselves.


And again, I'd like to suggest again making a trade caravan headed by Cass. (this would need to have an action spent)
>>
>>1826360
Can we get the Chinese to help on this? Pretty sure they will have people good at it
>>
>>1826360
>followers of the apoc DO have the info
Then why the hell has it not been digitized and added to Alexa yet? That was the whole point. A communications and education system. Wikipedia.

Have a few handys pick up ALL the shit we have not digitized yet and get on it. Then offer the most industrious ones a chance to make the damn windows themselves.
>>
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>>1826362
You know how to make glass via an industrial process through the factory.

What you don't have is little glass making foundries that an ordinary citizen can use.

>Have the civvies use the goddam foundry themselves
You have forbidden this, partly because of oddball, but also because letting untrained people work the controls of the factory is a bad idea.

Of course, this IS a great idea to start training people to work factories but then, you could always just use robots for that.

Also the easiest option for most people is to shut up their shutters and keep asking, rather than having to build their own glass mill and then make their own glass.
>>
God dammit anons you're doing it again, let QM write and we'll spend an action building glass for Civilians next turn.
>>
>>1826364
What even? We have the factory, we have the raw materials but we dont have the people to do this. The volunteer citizens do this. They literally have to do nothing else than man the machines and carry and install the glass. We have no possible objection to this.

>>1826366
We made the glass foundry ourselves, which means somebody knows how to make it. We have that person digitize for Alexa and teach a few people and we are set. No need to go abroad.

>>1826368
Also a good point.
>>
>>1826366
No, that's dangerous, the NCR could convinse them to immigrate.
>>
>>1826372
Its a fucking waste. There is a reason it was put off for 5 fucking years.

>>1826370
This is retarded. If a person wants to make glass for us, we have him educate himself on the side until we are sure he wont blow the place up. And if he is sub-optimal and takes 5 times as long to make enough glass, that is still a free action for us.
>>
>>1826368
Sure. You can call in a favor.

Anyway I really gotta go but I'll leave you with this.

>Citizen
"Look Mr. President, er, Executor. I'm not one to complain too much, but doesn't it just make more sense to use the big ol' factory to do it the right way nice and quick.

Why we gotta have a little glass mill and have a guy learn how to make them if we have those. I remember your book, you talked about automating a lot of stuff so we didn't have to do hard work.

I think it would be great if we had an artist to make like, little cups and nice statues, but there's about 200 people here who need lots and lots of glass windows."

>>1826373
> the people to do this
They are doing all the other stuff you want them to do

---

CHOOSE:
>Allow the citizens to use he glass foundry and any spare supplies/robots/tools as needed (Would you like to extend this for other projects like hexcrete?)
>>
>>1826373
Well as qm said >>1826370
letting random volunteer operate an industrial factory is a bad idea. They don't kbow what they are doing, they don't know safety practices.

Even if they. Say they read the books on how to glass make, do we just take their worsd for it?
>>
>>1826379
>we have him educate himself on the side
It takes more than one person to run the factory.

You would need to train more than one person and also train them to be proficient engineers, that sort of education is not free yet (but it can be if you upgrade the school).

The system does not yet exist to allow self-training to be engineers.
>>
>>1826383
Reding a Wikipedia article is currently not an acceptable standard of saftey for allowing people to work a high end glass production line where people can get melted or cut in half or make things explode
>>
>>1826384
There we go, too much work just to teach people how to use the glass factory themselves and there might still be accidents, just use an action next turn to produce glass for everyone,
>>
>>1826368
Oh yeah. That's a good idea.

>>1826369
Yeah. You'd think that in 5 years, the 35 or so followers who we have might have written a book on all they know about glass making.

>>1826370
well, okay, maybe letting them use the foundry is not a good idea but giving them resources to figure out and make their own little workshop is.

>>1826350
Okay then, what about our companions? Raul, or that OW trucker guy who's good at repairs. Hell even Riddick. They are ambitious people with good technical and repair skill and have high INT.

Maybe we should give Couripon this task of organizing a small glass factory.

>>1826376
Why do you people think so lowly of our citizens? Do you honestly think that they will throw away their home, friends and family and a comfortable life which get better and better as time passes the moment somebody offers them something new?

Besides, they will be accompanied by our companions

>>1826372
>and we'll spend an action building glass for Civilians next turn.

And then what? Do we spend actions building beds for them? Sewing clothes? Tilling their grass? Etc.
If we can kickstart civilian industry, then lets do it and have them deal with the demands that they can satisfy themselves.
>>
>>1826382
>They are doing all the other stuff you want them to do
Like what, fucking farming?!?! We have an overabundance of food. Allocate the peasants somewhere else.

>>1826382
>Why we gotta have a little glass mill and have a guy learn how to make them
We dont. We educate a few to use the large foundry. Just make glass. Not an engineers degree but to make glass.

And in our book we also talked about bettering yourself. This is the point where you try and better yourself so you dont work with your arms (you peasant farmer) but with your mind (controlling the foundry).

>>1826382
>>Allow the citizens to use he glass foundry and any spare supplies/robots/tools as needed (Would you like to extend this for other projects like hexcrete?)
YES, as long as this doesnt allow any one person to get an overabundance of resources it is a no-brainer. If it becomes appearent that someone is rising fast we keep a close eye on him and incorporate him into the state to make a stronger bond.
>>
>>1826387
Exactly my point. You can't just read how to make a glass factory work. You need to have your hand held until you know what your doing, which is hard when no one knows what they are doing to teach you. People fuck up ikea furniture and those have picture instructions. I can see people fucking up a factory if they learn through a manual
>>
>>1826389
>Okay then, what about our companions?
Most of them already have windows so they don't care.
>Raul
Busy with science
>Trucker
Busy with construction
>Riddick
Not his problem

--

ALERT!
-The Hubologists say they are willing to handle the glass making for you and even find people to do the glass, if they also have permission to pursue their own building projects in spare time
>Allow them
>nah
>>
>>1826393
*people in BigMT

>Like what
Science, engineering, military projects yuo keep them busy every turn.
>>
>>1826393
Nah. No religious industries.
>>
>>1826389
>If we can kickstart civilian industry, then lets do it and have them deal with the demands that they can satisfy themselves.
To kickstart civilian industry we have to improve the school and teach them how to be engineers and shit, which will take more than one turn.
Just spend this one action to please them and let's move on.
>>
>>1826387
>Reding a Wikipedia article is currently not an acceptable standard of saftey for allowing people to work a high end glass production line where people can get melted or cut in half or make things explode
Oh, but QM, that is IRL stuff and as you have so often stated, IRL has no bearing here.

>>1826392
And guess what? An actual engineer teaches them how to, after they have educated themselves on the basics and know what is happening.

>>1826394
Then get a few farmers to read shit on the side until they are capable of learning from the experts. They learn the narrow field of making glass in OUR SPECIFIC foundry, not the theoretical nuances behind it. They then go through the process with one of our engineers so they can do it themselves. Even of it takes 3 months on the side. They then make the glass themselves in the foundry.

>>1826395
Depends on what they want, no blanket yes to all.
>>
>>1826396
Why?? We pamper them enough already. It is about time they start doing things other than basic farming. That is not what they are here for.
>>
>>1826382
Of course Mr. citizen. And as you see, more and more of your hard work is being replaced by robots. Our nation is very busy with projects of national importance. If there are people who are willing to put in time and effort to meet local demands, I would like to support them as much as possible.
But if the citizens are content to wait, then it will take long time before such minor things are met.

>>1826393
>>1826382

It's not just glass thing, I agree that letting them use the foundry is very dangerous. I want to let private industry flourish so I agree on doing

>Allow the citizens to use spare supplies/robots/tools as needed (Would you like to extend this for other projects like hexcrete?)

Let them pursue their projects. This is not compulsory. If somebody thinks that he has what it takes to become an entrepreneur, let them.

>>1826396
if somebody desires it, they have access to much of the knowledge they need.
Okay, working in a big factory would be very, very dangerous. But making a small workshop to meet demands of people, not just for making windows is something they can aspire to do.
>>
>>1826400
Because it'll take to long, unless we ignore them for now and finish getting our 2nd action then improve the school so they can work the glass factory safely any other way is inefficient and/or dangerous.
>>
>>1826400
Here is a video on plate glass making.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSurxsGQL90

Nowhere is a hand actually needed besides oversight and QA. How can these bumfucks not do that??
>>
>>1826398
Fine. Reading an Alexa info is currently not an acceptable standard of saftey for allowing people to work a high end glass production line where people can get melted or cut in half or make things explode

Engineers are busy with ojr engineering stuff. Also I don't think we have engineers other than Miles, and he spends his free time getting his brain irradiated for the talking pyramid, not learning how to operate a glass factory.
>>
>>1826402
>But making a small workshop to meet demands of people, not just for making windows is something they can aspire to do.
No, that's inefficient, even this Citizen points out it's silly to build a civilian glass factory. >>1826382
>>
>>1826403
>>1826407

you don't understand man

it's just lifting restrictions and allowing people to use resources and tools to improve their and surrounding quality of life IF THEY WANT TO

even if it takes a long time to supply the needs.

It will be a free passive action where our population takes care of their needs.


Anyway, if they don't want to learn new things then I'll drop this but we should allow them to use resources and tools. (but not dangerous foundries and factories)
>>
>>1826403
You dont get it. We are not here to pamper to them. If there is a time where we will not need every action and we can just waste one on goddam glass windows, sure. But I bet you anything that we will use those actions for far more than that. Secondly, I dont assume they learn engineering at home. I assume that the, as thinking beings, are able to learn a narrow skill in a few months time with study materials and help from professionals. Think of a cash register. First time you see one you dont know shit. You read up on the functions and get tought the basics of it and you can be a cashier. This doesnt mean you understand the electronics behind it or why the store charges what it does but you can work a cash register just fine. This is the analogy to what I want our people to do.

>>1826402
>Okay, working in a big factory would be very, very dangerous.
No it really wouldnt. If you dont go sticking your bits in the large wheels you wont get hurt. Especially since the glass foundry is almost completely automated by default.
>>
>>1826398
Touche Anonymous touche. But yes if you want citizens to attempt to run the factory based on self-education with the current schools you may vote so. The hubologist on the other hand insist that they can find and train only the most capable people among the populace and ensure self Learners are kept to proper standards
>>
>>1826404
Most of your general populace wouldn't even know the meaning of quality assurance. Literally
>>
>>1826416
We are going full blow hubologist route anyway, so I see no harm in allowing them to do their thing. It will probably help us in the long term anyway.
>>
>>1826410
>It will be a free passive action where our population takes care of their needs.
This anon gets it.

>>1826406
>Engineers are busy with ojr engineering stuff.
Then let one take a few hours off every day to teach noobs. If one engineer makes such a difference we desparately need to make more anyway.

>>1826406
>Also I don't think we have engineers other than Miles, and he spends his free time getting his brain irradiated for the talking pyramid, not learning how to operate a glass factory.
Then who the fuck made the foundry in the first place?? We either have engineers and they can teach peasants on the side or we dont and cant use the fucking thing anyway so we built it for nothing. And since we HAVE used it we must have engineers. Not to mention all the other crap we have built.
>>
>>1826410
> Jacob miles
All of our factories and foundries are dangerous in untrained and inexperienced hands.

I would recommend the development of a quality assurance education program before allowing any self-educated person to so much as step into the factory
>>
>>1826419
>We are going full blow hubologist route anyway
When have we decided that exacly? Cause i'm pretty sure 2-3 threads ago we decided we don't want hubologists to continue spreading their influence.
>>
>>1826419
Ok, as long as we keep the mumbojumbo to a minimum and approach the subject scientifically.

>>1826416
>>1826418
That is where the actual engineers come in to teach them how it goes before they go at it alone. Again, it may take many months but it would be a free background action. And the engineers and peasants would do this either from their own time (with compensation) or part time. They would not go at it alone until we are certain nothing will blow up. Even if that means we wont see anything for half a year. Same goes for hexcrete and any other industry they may find interesting.
>>
>>1826421
The followers agree with your goal of allowing the population to sell educate themselves to achieve their means but point out that the education systems as they had planned and outline in there to do list do not yet exist
>>
>>1826423
SEE!?!
We either use one action now to make glass or ignore the demand for a while until we improve the school.
>>
>>1826423
That is fine. If we have to use a turn to make DIY for dummies programs for fields of interest that is fair. Although I would also expect that to be it, rather than a problem arising for every field out there.
>>
>>1826426
Until you upgrade your education systems it will always cost an action for any of your engineers to train other engineers. Or you may delegate to people you trust with the appropriate skills to get the job done of making products
>>
>>1826428
Yes, and we will ignore the demand until they have done it themselves. This is so minor a thing we will not waste a construction action on this nonsense.

Also, not the whole system. We can make DIY guides in a turn.
>>
>>1826426
That's like asking thee catholic church to operate a hospital and approach thibg scientifically. You end up with a hospital that doesn't do abortions or birth control.
>>
>>1826430
You are saying that NO engineer would do overtime teaching for extra bonuses? Either you havent thought this through or we have the worst people. This is ridiculous.
>>
>>1826433
WE take it scientifically, they can go mumbo jumbo but the official stance is science, not hubology.
>>
>>1826431
So we're going for the latter?
Alright then.
>>
>>1826423
>>1826430

Okay, I vote on getting Hubs help with this.

Just ask them to run by the projects by us before they start.

>>1826425
Aren't we planning to build something which is basically an ENORMOUS Hubologist temple? The pyramid city?
Face it, we are going down deep the star father hole
>>
>>1826431
You want to have a factory operated by a bunch of rubes reading off a guide book? Unless its a foot thick, detailing all the safety proceedures, different formula, workplace hazard stuff, what whimis symbols mean and are to be used for, how each machine works and can be repaired, etc. It won't be enough.
>>
>>1826440
>Face it, we are going down deep the star father hole
kek
>>
>>1826440
We have the plans, and that was more for the pyramid aethetic some people liked. We have no clue that the city is a hubbologist design.
>>
>>1826440
>Aren't we planning to build something which is basically an ENORMOUS Hubologist temple? The pyramid city?
Yes, as our Capital government building, whose pyramid design was entirely consequential.
>>
>>1826442
Have you worked in a factory? I have. The whole thing is built around speed and predictability. Unless you shove your hand where it doesnt belong you will be fine. The same goes for any factory and I refuse to think we built a ramshack building where, if the engineers dont do checklists every second they will somehow explode. The worst that can happen is the product comes out brittle or ununiform. This is something they can learn by experience and by the guidance of actual engineers. They will not be set loose with a book and told to "do it".
>>
>>1826434
Even just asking damn to take time off for over pay is going to cost you an action it is a limitation of the quest system but also represents that even if they did take the time off out of their work if not fully dedicated the educational facilities are insufficient to provide the adequate training
>>
>>1826445
It was designed by a hubologist after recieving a vision from the starfather... If that doesnt make it hubologist then i sure dont know what would
>>
>>1826447
Yeah, everything goes nice until it doesn't. Which is what training is for. Training they don't have. Safety isn't for when things go right, its for when things go wrong.
>>
>>1826448
>a limitation of the quest system
The system is what you say it is and what YOU make it. Stop hiding behind excuses. If you dont want us to have it, just say so.
>>
>>1826449
And it was a secret bonus ON TOP of nat 100 result so it bound to be some amazing shit
>>
>>1826448
Actually I must modify this statement a person cannot do two jobs in one month that require their full dedication such as education or a major Construction. If there are times that your engineer's or an individual is not needed then they could be told to possibly perform something. As an example if during a turn none or some of your followers are not being used those not used followers are free to pursue other passive task but not National active task
>>
>>1826449
Yes. But my point is we don't know that.the qm could have skipped the whole Miles and his vision update he wanted, and the courier loses nothing from it.

I would like to continue limiting the hubbologist influence as much as possible. I imagine their leader is getting quite wealthy and i don't like that.
>>
>>1826453
Very well I do not want you guys to do things which are unreasonable based on your current assets and available Personnel such as attempting to do multiple things at once when your individuals can only be at the same place at the same time once they cannot be at two places at the same time or when they cannot adequately divide their attention
>>
>>1826452
And guess what? The engineers are there to train them in the field of making glass with our foundry, including all safety procedures. But this is a moot point since QM said >>1826448
>>
>>1826458
Whatever you say.
>>
>>1826459
And that is the way it's going to be until you improve your education system to allow you to do what you want or you decide to inform them that rigorous standards are not needed
>>
>>1826457
Agreed. We need to get them some direct competition in the form of Christianity.

>>1826454
I agree completely, i look forward to seeing how amazing it is
>>
>>1826453
>>1826462
I'm running this Quest to Have a fun time for myself but more importantly make a fun time for my anons. If it seems to you that I am doing the opposite or my quest has become a burden or a chore rather than something that is enjoyable I am not just wasting my time I am wasting yours and I honestly should quit now before any more is wasted
>>
>>1826482
I am having a great time, please don't abandon us! As a full-time engineering student i not only understand why you are doing what you are doing with the factories and training but endorse it. It is too much work to do in the evenings or after hours, a dedicated proff or teacher is needed.
>>
>>1826482
See, the thing is I would be here searching the web for data and arguing with moralfags for literal hours if I didnt care. Id even go as far to say I am somewhat addicted to this, since the last time I played a Fallout civ game was long ago, not to mention this format affords many more options than a grand strategy game format. What my issue is is consistency between the games and this quest, as well as the differences in IRL/Fallout and this quest. I apologize if I have upset you so greatly that you consider quitting but this is a topic I very much like and want to see brought to greater heights. You are a grown man so it is up to you what you want to do.
>>
>>1826488
As a full-time genetic engineering student I can say that Biosafety level 3 labs are not that hard to work at. The cherry on top is that most of your education is not needed and laboratory techniques are learned from guides and from hands-on experience. Whats more, working in said labs is something you can do on the side while doing your batchelors. So no, i dont see that this is something you need a degree to understand.
>>
>>1826482
Nah man, this quest is great. Please continue. I find myself checking for updates like for every 15 minutes.

I found it confusing why our population doesn't try to fix some of their problems on their own after years and years and it turns out we have put massive restrictions on entrepreneurship.

Anyway, let Hubs help with glass foundry. Allow citizens to use resources and tools for projects
>>
>>1826493
A lab isn't anything like a factory. In a lab you generally are working with quantities less than 250 ml. Factories operate on the level of tons. Things going wrong in a factory is much more dangerous than things going wrong in a lab.
>>
>>1826495
You do realize what biosafety is for, right? So whatever you are working with doesnt escape conatinment. this goes from pansy common cold to anthrax (which I understand Atlanta had a brush with). The fact that we are working with quantities less than a milliliter doesnt mean it doesnt take care. The fun thing about microbial cells, viruses and protozoa? One is enough to fuck things up (although they rarely do with just one). You are assuming that quantity relates to danger.

My point is that wherever you are it takes care and skill at your job, not some background knowledge, to be good. This is what I want for our citizens too. they dont have to be geniouses, they just have to do one job well.
>>
>>1826393
>Nah
>>
>>1826493
For producing engineers you kinda need a full-time program spanning years, for producing technicians less effort but doable. I have visited quite a few factories and worked in me before so I know that if the guy needs to do anything more than press a button, we are in for a hard time. Having hordes of unqualified individuals without qualified supervision would be a nightmare.

Do bear in-mind that most of the non-scientist pop are idiots.
>>
>>1826503
>Do bear in-mind that most of the non-scientist pop are idiots
That is the only real point I can agree to. And if they are, god help us.
>>
>>1826393
Ima have to vote no on the hubologists. Would be easier to just spend the action to make it, its been 5 years.

Also qm, you gotta stop letting anons bait you. Give an in universe reason why it be like it do and then keep on trucking. Otherwise you get bogged down in the same argument loop as us, and I don't thats fun for you
>>
>>1826507
What is it about my other points that you disagree with? Very curious as to how else one can produce engineers.

Personally i would suggest almost complete automation with one overseer who just controls how much is produced.
>>
>>1826511
I mean, you can automate the overseer so. Brain can turn production up or down whenever he wants.
>>
>>1826518
Very true, but then what do we do with our pop? We are almost at the point the only pop we need are the scientists.
>>
>>1826393
I'm going with No to the Hubs offer.

And also it seems that when their is arguments some anons tune out and wait for the update post.
>>
>>1826522
Whatever they want I suppose. That was the end goal for society, yeah?

Or art. Could get into glass blowing for the dinner ware and knicknacks
>>
>>1826529
You are right, but we are not at post scarcity yet and we would like to let the pop take over all the minor industries anyway, so why not let one enterprising bloke become the CEO of New Washington Glassworks? We will probably want to replace this tiny glass factory later anyway and it is probably extremely inefficient
>>
>>1826530
I imagine we need some diplomats. Should see if we have any charisma in our people.
>>
>>1826532
I rate we need a university, but diplomats would come in very handy. That would save our hero action for much more important things
>>
Not at home yet but it helps to think ahead of time did you guys decide on a specific outing with any one of your wives companions or children?
>>
>>1826589
Just do what they want. Also Unity, seems you forgot her in the previous update
>>
>>1826269
META
>I was hoping anons more familiar with the first 2 games
QM when that doctor holograph showed up we as anons said it was from the crash USS ship. Just something the developers added in that also has Hyrospray.

So they got that tech boost from finding that ship. Even if it was sitting there since 2241. Also their something else, that the Hero of Fallout 2 was the one to destroy the water chip, going through a rock portal. Also there is that dog that gives bad luck, and the talking deathclaws that are in Vault 13 but was forced to move.
>>
>>1826589
Eh. They know what they want. Leave the kids with Lily now that she's not insane.
>>
Catching up


>>1793077
>>1824755
>>1824776
Yeah he wanted to do from awhile back. It's a major point of contention to me since I doubt our people would accept it, even if the clones would.

>>1824797
As I have stated I have no problem with that and in fact would even argue for mass cloning but I don't agree with fake childhoods and some of the other shit. Matrix style skill / information downloads? Shit yeah that would be great. Gene modifications? Of course!

Still I feel we should really restate precisely what we are arguing for as the lines and point has been muddied by the constant arguing and compromise. Might even be the case we've actually reached agreement...

Also >>1824807's right it would take that long so it ain't an effective method.

>>1824892
>He was thrown into war immediately, with the intent to die, and never given a choice of whether he wanted to or do something else.
Ironically that was your position at the very start of this debate. You advised the creation of clone soldiers from birth to battlefield so to speak. At least we've moved past that point.

>>1825036
The argument is that clones are fine, great even, but that artificial childhoods will probably fuck them up and that without those then we can't accelerate their development enough to make it an immediate solution to our population. At least in my case however I still support it to some degree under the right methods.

>>1825147
Are we the CIS or the Republic? Or are we the emperor?

Also I'm done fucking following the discussion until I reach the bottom of this thread and honestly kinda just want to abandon it (still gonna vote about it) since we ain't gonna make any progress.

>>1825899
>And again, I completely agree with you. This moralfaggotry is insidious. When they cant adequately defend their ideas they revert to bullying tactics and name calling. Truly, master orators.
That is rich coming from you who said you'd berate people who argued against you the moment you thought they had no logical arguments.

>>1826058
I honestly agree at this point.

>>1826133
Actually a large portion of what you just said is inaccurate as of FO 4. Between the jet bombers, the twin barrelled tanks and a few crashed jet aircraft of civilian model.

>>1826139
Better sensors would be useful for combat units as well. Lenses especially since they'd enhance laser weapons.
>>
>>1826686
Shit grabbed a link to another thread at some point...ignore that!


>>1826211
It's because Fallout is meant to still be related and based off of earth. I had the same problem with the microwave tank and I showed and explained that it wouldn't work, that your explanation wouldn't work and that is the point. Also I have to agree, it feels like a fucking dick move to cock-block us from a good satellite like that.

>>1826235
OP as a student of physics and a lover of space travel, I have to call you a fool if you are genuinely of the belief they wouldn't try and reduce the size and weight of space craft. Seriously, a reduction of 0.5 kg on a 50000 kg rocket massively increases fuel efficiency, reduces stresses and generally makes the launch cheaper while reducing the size of a craft means it won't be as hard to transport into space.

>>1826238
Actually the Wright brothers technically didn't make a plane by some definitions (they launched via a catapult and thus lacked landing gear) and I'd point out that the main reason for the governments failing to achieve manned flight was that there wasn't major investment, compared to better warships and such along with the fact that the development of the internal combustion engine was incredibly rapid and unpredictable.

>>1826247
Yeah I'd point out that those mods are often now going to conflict with stuff from Fallout 4 or otherwise will have problems with each other.

>>1826324
>>1826326
We have skeletal humanoid combat robots that we can mass produce for numbers. So long as command ain't disrupted they'll do and we can have TACTs acting as relays from pretty far away.

>>1826329
>some windows would be nice. everyone wants windows. its been five years and we still don't have windows.
At this point I want to keep it around just for how funny it is becoming. The constant remarks about the windows are great.

>>1826336
Wait, yet you never thought to bring this up? You mention when our water or food is low, you mention when we are in battle or our power network is being intensely used? Yet not them asking? The hell OP?

>>1826589
Let's take the ones that enjoy combat followed by wild sex and that sort of shit with us to Montana and do some sexploration of the region and try and find some towns and shit.

Get that courier we picked up from there to tell us about any towns in the region and mark them on our map along with bandit camps, pre-war ruins and such.


Also, a question, how easily could we create, transport and set up a teleportation system to the Montana / northern unclaimed territories.
>>
>>1826695
>Also, a question, how easily could we create, transport and set up a teleportation system to the Montana / northern unclaimed territories.
The Alien ship can carry a teleporter pad so it's no problem unless we have to avoid being detected, however the teleporter needs powers so we'll have to set it up where power is accessible.
We'll also needs robots to defend that Montana outpost since there's probably a significant amount of raiders there that will want our shit, some Securitrons with a bastion or 2 should be enough.
>>
>>1826695
>We have skeletal humanoid combat robots that we can mass produce for numbers. So long as command ain't disrupted they'll do and we can have TACTs acting as relays from pretty far away.
Which do you prefer? BX commandos or B1 battle droids?
i'm leaning BX.
>>
>>1826712
We could hide it off in sone corner somewhere. Theoretically, it shouldn't use much power when not teleporting people, so we could just use a large alien battery like we do in China Ranch. Just have to send someone through every once in a while and swap em out.
>>
>>1826714
I'd say BX. B1 were for mass combat, but would be severley outclassed by our current securitrons

We don't have anything that competes with BXs other than the dragoons, which are limited.
>>
>>1826719
I'd say get a big powersource, Montana seems untouched so if we can get a significant force there we could gain some serious land.
>>
>>1826726
Something for a later date I suppose. Should probably deal with the legion first, then just walk down to Montanna.
>>
>>1826686
Just asking a question as I didn't play Fallout 4.
Didn't with the new game of FO4 they threw the past lore out the window? That's what I heard, and I didn't play the game so I can't see for myself.
>>
>>1826712
I'd argue that if we are setting up an outpost, that static defences (towers of light / obelisks / Executor's fury projectors or whatever we are calling them.) would be more cost effective and able to be more easily armoured and shit.

Also we can eliminate the raiders in the region with our troops and robots while forcing / convincing local towns to join us with our gene modded plants (twice the food production of conventional ones), robotic workers (lazy cunts but hey they are citizens), giant army (security is a luxury), free food, med care, education, housing (yet another benefit) and all that good shit.

The point is that between the readily available salvage in the region (and how easily we could set up some small scale industry there to process it), the low levels of successful exploration / conquest (few to contest us and plenty of undisturbed pre-war stuff) and our general superiority in terms of firepower and shit, we can easily take over a sizeable area and convince others to join us. Far more quickly than we might expand elsewhere while gaining population we can train to be engineers or miners or other such things, further accelerating production and expansion.

>>1826714
B 1's since we need sheer numbers to take land and hold it while our Securitrons and such form the strong spearhead of any advances.

Once we've got more industry to support fully Securitron armies and shit, these units can also work in policing, fire fighting, medical, commercial, education and other such roles. Not to mention in artillery divisions and such where the ability to fire reliably for hours on end without break would be useful and heavy armour is unneeded.
>>
>>1826739
Eh, some of it is the same. The NCR still exists and the Shi for example. And we know the Zetan's are still around.

However they've fucked with huge portions of shit. PA for example.


You'd be better looking up some sort of video or review focusing on that, since I've not played in a little while.
>>
>>1826743
A tower of light would be too expensive for an outpost, the Bastions are convenient for this specific scenario, they can set up in turret form and use their 30mm to sherd whatever dares to attack us.
>>
>>1826712
Actually there's something i forgot about the teleporter.
Can the Nursery's satellite reach Montana?
>>
>>1826752
True but that depends on how powerful you are making the tower. It'd just need to be able to survive a direct rocket hit or two and melt through a few cm of metal armour to the flesh of raiders.

Plus, we can support it with auto-mortars (grenade machine-guns are a funny concept that exists).
>>
>>1826743
The roles you would put the droids in after the war are not ideal for them without heavy modification, compared to specialized drones. Firefighter bots would have more fire suppressant and the ability, mr orderlies woild be better doctors for example.

And aren't our artillery pieces, the tact artillery platfirms, self loading? Don't really need to man them do we?
>>
>>1826759
Ah, so more like a laser turret than a Obelisk.
>>
>>1826743
>>1826762
Don't we already have firefighter bots?
>>
>>1826762
They are considering the design of these robots: lightly armoured, human sized, dexterous and such. They'd use the sort of gear human's in the role would but with the ability to more intimately connect to it and without tiring or worry about survival.

>And aren't our artillery pieces, the tact artillery platfirms, self loading? Don't really need to man them do we?
The Chinese ones aren't and we might decide to keep around a design from the NCR depending on how good it is.

Still I suppose you have a point.

>>1826764
I suppose but a bit bigger. Longer ranged for certain.

>>1826769
Nope, but our hazard containment robots can work as fire fighters. Though that is a bit like using a high-pressure water cannon to put out a candle.
>>
>>1826774
Well if the design is good for NCR vehicles, we can probably just turn it into a robot, installing the weapons or whatever in a robot chassis.

As for fire fighting, we can probably develop something like an eyebot filled with compressed foam. But I suppose that in rescue roles, going into homes and such, humanoid forms would be best.
>>
I want a new thread. It takes ages for me to load this.
>>
>>1826805
>Well if the design is good for NCR vehicles, we can probably just turn it into a robot, installing the weapons or whatever in a robot chassis.
True but I am talking about shit we take from them in battle where remaking it into a robot / another design is too expensive for what benefits it brings or isn't possible.

>As for fire fighting, we can probably develop something like an eyebot filled with compressed foam. But I suppose that in rescue roles, going into homes and such, humanoid forms would be best.
Yeah, same goes for healthcare and childcare since they don't have a thruster (burns everywhere!) and a far more human shape is nice. Same goes for general work which is what I advise them for during peacetime.

Plus, they work as a stopgap measure for our lack of population and offer to be able to be rapidly altered to fix new problems as they arise / fill new roles as needed.
>>
>>1826849
It would be like iRobot, the will smith movie, with the NS5 assistant bots. Hopefully we would have less robo-rebellion.
>>
>>1826814
Same here
>>
>>1826866
Essentially.


Think Big hero six's caring robot for mannerisms / personality (maybe better, possibly use centralised intelligence / communal processing? A single AI controlling them all from a server? Many possibilities, need testing would also effect combat ability), Chappie for appearance (clearly non-human but similar enough and emotive enough to be read as angry, happy, sad or such by a child) and iRobot for capabilities and intelligence (human level / capable of logical responses and innovation (regard FO 4's codsworth or FO 3 NV's ED-E or such) and connected to our central information storage database?).
>>
>>1826814
That would be nice
>>
NO
>>1826395
>>1826502
>>1826508
>>1826527

You return them with a "No".

This generally has more of the people a bit disheartened. If a whole group of smart and determined people like them got turned down, there's really no point in the rest of them bothering with the windows.

"Well, that's that then. We had a whole group of people willing to do it but if they ain't then we might as well not bother."

"The Courier probably needs the glass for his robots, I guess"

"Maybe he'd let us buy from the NCR? They have lots of glass factories"

"Good luck with that. We're supposed to be preparing for war with the NCR"

"Don't we have a peace treaty? I like the more than the Legion or the MLA"

"That is strange. But they are still gassing tribals!"

"I don't really like tribals either."
>>
>>1826695
Meh, that entire rant has me falling into Hyperboles probably cause I didn't sleep the whole night and also because it was sort of looping and I was at my wits end to find better ways to say "it is what it is"

I still stand by that you need to improve your satellite knowledge because this was literally your first test run. I'm not sure how many ways I can say that, but we did good headway here.
>>
>>1826695
>Actually a large portion of what you just said is inaccurate as of FO 4. Between the jet bombers, the twin barrelled tanks and a few crashed jet aircraft of civilian model.
Haven't played FO4.

I suppose that may be why expectations are different. I'm functioning off of FNV and previous game logic where the game makes it appear that many of the Pre-War models resemble WW2 and late WW2 thematics, such as the Sherman Tank, the Boomers aircraft (with its up to date VR training simulation) and the ARES mod in which she pilots a p-80 shooting star.

I did try to mention that while I would incorporate F4 content, I could not entirely know a game I didn't play either.

Plus the whole point of this Quest is a massive divergence from the endings of FNV.

So yeah, if Fo4 stuff doesn't match here expect more of it.
>>
DISCLAIMER

I HAVE NOT PLAYED FALLOUT 4

EXPECT DIVERGENCES FROM FALLOUT 4 LORE IN MANY REGARDS.

I'm going to keep this on the intro for a bit.
>>
>>1826965
>

This generally has more of the people a bit disheartened. If a whole group of smart and determined people like them got turned down, there's really no point in the rest of them bothering with the windows.

Dammit, I wish people would let off their shitty paranoia. Could've started private industry.
>>
>>1826330
>>1826351
>>1826617
>>1826685
>Do all of them (the dates silly)
>>1826695
>MONTANA COMBAT FUN
>>1826337
>now's not a good time for all that, just spend some decent time with them for now

writing
>>
>>1826966
I disagree with you, seeing as we'd designed a satellite before this point and you told us it's abilities. What you then gave us? Nowhere near as impressive.

What I do agree is that you fell into some very irrational arguments.

>>1826969
Fair enough but stuff like this is something you can ask about.
>>
>>1826975
>Dammit, I wish people would let off their shitty paranoia. Could've started private industry.
Its funny because this happened before and I genuinely wasn't expecting it to happen again
>>
>>1826995
Well anon, it was literally a test run if you could just get the satellite to go around the globe. Once it worked, the sky was the limit for upgrades.

Can you imagine how much more expensive this would have been if you built an actual quality satellite with a much better performance?

You would have taken more time, cost more resources, and still ended up with a missing satellite.

That is primarily, and wisely, why you didn't invest in a good satellite yet
>>
>>1826995
>>1827002
I really hope you guys know this time I had the Courier think in your favor, because often times you complain he doesn't.

Well his int10 told him "if I spend half a year building a really good satellite and the rocket plus the fuel and materials to lift it up only for it to be lost, this would be an even bigger dissapointment. Let's start small first."

And I honestly believe its worth it because holy hell you guys did't even lose a resource point for that thing and there's 200 posts worth of angst. Imagine if it was a bigger project.
>>
>>1827011
But after today I'm not sure if its worth doing that because there's clear disappointment when the product isn't what it should be.
>>
Rolled 50 (1d100)

>>1826992
Rolling to impregnate even when using rubbers
>>
>>1827011
I think people are just mad since we got 95 on this turn, and the test satellite didn't work
I'm not even bother by it. But some anons want to argument about little things like clones or to have morals or not. It gets old real quick
>>
>>1827011
Why didn't we just fly it into orbit with our alien spaceship capable of space travel?
>>
>>1827020
>50+ id
>50 roll
Someone's asking for a coin flip.

>>1827038
You've never gone into space before, and you suspected, perhaps correctly, that the satellite would be a much better dummy target in case there was something out there dangerous for your craft.

Also you still hate heights.

---

As for Sam.

>Sam
"What I want to do?

I'd like to know you more Courier. And I think the best way to do that is to do the one thing in the world you like the most with you."

CHOOSE:
What is it you like?
-Killing badguys
-Blowing stuff up!
-SCIENCE
-Building something cool
-Exploring new places, vaults, locations
-Just being together and enjoying the closeness
>Other?
>>
>>1827015
No man, please continue to make courier think for himself. It's just couple of anons who can't get it through their head that this is different than real life, that OP is not omniscient and that they should just shut up and listen


>>1826997
Fffffff
When did happen before?

I honestly do not fucking understand the level of distrust towards the Hubs. We have beyond doubt proof that they are not just a scam cult. Ahs-9 saved us once. Miles got vision for super upgrade for our city.

But noooo let's introduce other religion so that we get religious tensions in future.
>>
>>1827045
Exploring. Take a trip, see the continent from the scoutship.
>>
>>1827046
>When did happen before?
Someone else offered to be your cultural arts manager before, but you guys didnn't trust them. I suppose you can interpret the result as justification or not
>>
>>1827045
>Someone's asking for a coin flip
Yes
YESSSSS

>Sam
YYou mean Unity. Wow that is embarrassing.

Explore new places because that means we usually get to do ALL of those things.
>>
>>1826975
True but honestly I'd kinda like to remain in control for a lot longer.

Who knows, maybe we can do a hero action and educate a few people to work our glass mill automatically and shit or just produce the windows directly.

I'll be honest though, I was asleep for the vote and I'd have told them to give it a shot but warned them that if we needed the mill, they'd be left outside while we needed it.

>>1827002
I suppose but I just didn't feel like any sorts of progress was made.

>>1827011
I suppose and I am thankful for that but you could've asked us if we wanted to risk it or not.

>>1827038
Yeah that was part of almost every plan we've ever designed involving space.

>>1827045
-Exploring new places, vaults, locations
OR
-Exploring new places, vaults, locations
OR
-Building something cool

>>1827046
I agree but it's mostly because we don't trust having anyone else at the helm of our nation and people liked Christianity for some reason. Dunno why seeing as it'll just cause problems with our homosexuals and our relationship policies and shit.
>>
>>1827057
Crap. Yes UNITY.
>>
>>1827045
Exploring new places I want to see new locations
>>
>>1827056
You're talking about Oddball?

I guess the massive distrust from the start might have pushed him to look for better prospects elsewhere. Do you mean the same is going to happen with the Hubs?
>>
>>1827058
I mean, if we wanted, we could "rediscover" sol invictus or something and form our own religion and give it our own rules or whetever. Or even just read the bible and form a sect of christianity.
>>
>>1827058
>I suppose and I am thankful for that but you could've asked us if we wanted to risk it or not.
I probably should have, but the Courier decided to do something that was essentially risk free. No vita organs to be traced, low quality and low material.

>I suppose but I just didn't feel like any sorts of progress was made.
Well, you did find out one thing.

Something happens to your satellites as they try to circle the globe, something beyond the NCR
>>
>>1827046
Well one guy voted no cause his plan is to spend an action to build the glass ourselves, so it's not entirely about distrusting the Hubs.
>>
>>1827067
China shot down our satellite, with Star Wars. A system thought up in the 80s by Regan to shoot down nukes.
But this time it shot down our satellite. Also their is the possibility of Japan doing something.
>>
>>1827058
We'll be in control forever. But that doesn't mean we can't get help from somewhere or that new factions within our nation will occur. It is natural.

Hubs were giving us amazing advantages and only asked minor price. Obviously they wouldn't build anything we don't approve of and they would not be able to build stuff without us knowing. James's all seeing eye and all that.
Besides they already build their projects with the help of their converts and their funding. We weren't losing anything.

But what do you expect of prime who don't trust their own fucking brains? Maybe we should've asked our companions for opinion.
>>
>>1827075
If China is shooting down satellites then I don't think we want to fly there any time soon.

>>1827059
Hey qm, did the satellite get past hawaii?
>>
>>1827025
Something going at 20 km up, a satellite is not.

>>1827038
Also this very much.
>>
>>1827066
Eh, I'd rather form a cult of humanity with a focus on the concept of the "generational hero" if we are going for a new religion from the ground up rather than co-opting the Hubbologists.

A new chapter in our book, focusing on how at various points in post war history people have risen from nowhere to stop or cause great events. The Vault dweller, the Sole survivor, the Warrior, the Lone wanderer, the Chosen one, our self and so on. People who have amazing abilities and were born seemingly ordinary individuals and went on to experience amazing adventures and prevent disasters, or cause them.

A religion based around trying to be the next hero. To be that next world changer. Yet respecting the lessons of each of those that came before. Yet still praising their name.
>>
>>1827104
Or that. That could work.
>>
>>1827071
It wasn't just about glass. It was basically an automatic passive action which would deal with the desires of our people. We wouldn't need to spend actions for building new robot fighting arena, cinema, park, etc
It would slowly happen on its own. It would also encourage people to get education before we put our reforms in, meaning that in the future it would've been easier to implement them and get people on board
>>
>>1827083
>Hey qm, did the satellite get past hawaii?
You're not really sure, the moment it left the horizon that was the last contact you had with it. Had it gone well, you should have reestablished contact when it rose over the eastern horizon.

---

>Unity
"Hmmm, exploring. Okay then!

But I think you want to spend time with the other girls, you better do that first.

No, I didn't peep on you. I just have good ears and take care of their children a lot, so I hear things they want

And knowing them, this is going to be a tall order in a month. Even for you. I'd suggest giving them each their own month, heh. Between the five of them, that gives you plenty of space in between. And you won't feel so strung out."

>Take her advice
>Hah! You don't think I can do it? Just Watch Me! (Roll me 3 1d100s)
>>
>>1827067
Fair enough.

>>1827110
>>1827080
Yeah, we might've fucked up a bit but to be frank I wasn't here.


Anyhow, it's happened so we can only do two things: change our decision or deal with this outcome.
>>
>>1827116
Okay Unity. Sound advice.
>>
>>1827117
>Yeah, we might've fucked up a bit but to be frank I wasn't here.
You know what? Why don't we hold a revote? I didn't vote either.
>>
>>1827104
You could argue that Caesar and Yanuker are such heroes.
>>
>>1827122
That is what I am saying, just call our people back say we've thought it over a bit more and decided to allow them to do it.
>>
if you want a revote of that, link it here.
>>
>>1827125
True.

But then we create the concept of generational villains / the motivations, those that these heroes are working to thwart: the Enclave's leadership, the Calculator, the Institute or the DC BOS, etc.


>>1827132
Yo.
>>
>>1827132
Yes.
>>
>>1827125
People might not like that but I'd love to.


Maybe get opinions from our companions and the brain and then decide for a revote? People like Arcade, Miles, Brain, and others who you guys think would give good advice
>>
>>1827132
Here.
>>
Also we need a new thread.
Gimme a description and i'll archive this one.
>>
>>1827132
Yes
>>
>>1827137
Well we can incorporate Ceasar's ideas on thesis and antithesis. The rise of a hero causes the rise of a villain, or more.
A symbol faces off against its opposite.
So when there are great people, there are terrible people who face them, but when the dust settles, things are better.
>>
>>1827104
Can we not please?
>>
YES
>>1827139
>>1827145
>>1827151
>>1827137
I'm pretty sure thats a yes?

NO
>>1826395
>>1826502
>>1826508
>>1826527

Looks like we're tied.

---

>>1827116
Also don't forget to vote on this so I can start writing.
>>
>>1827150
Well I assume we don't want to include the Clone Wars in the discussion so..

Diana does her part, tunneling transports are invented, construction continues.
>>
>>1827132
Im still voting no, but i can understand if anons dont share my thoughts.
>>
>>1827158
I am
>>1826395
And i changed my vote
>>
>>1827152
There's a line in Avenger's civil war: "Our very strength invites challenge". It was in reference to the fact that their existence created enemies to face them. That their actions pissed someone off and they'd inevitably become a villain trying to defeat them.

Yet the same holds true of villians, their evil invites good to challenge it.


>>1827157
Hey, I'm just saying if we need to have a religion and it ain't going to be Hubbology that'd be my pick.

>>1827158
Aye, it is.
>>
>>1827116
Take her advice

Can we get opinions from our companions concerning the decision?
>>
Rolled 55 (1d100)

>>1827116
You don't think I can do it?
>>
>>1827170
>Hey, I'm just saying if we need to have a religion and it ain't going to be Hubbology that'd be my pick.
Yea but i don't like this religion specifically.
>>
>>1827179
Why?
>>
>>1827179
Ive more or less gotten over my mistrust of the hub, but I dont want ANY religion in charge of any of our infrastructure.

I wouldn't d have no problem appointing an office to do it, similar to >>1827056


Thats my stance.
>>
>>1827183
I dunno, i'm too tired to think about why i don't like it more thoroughly.
I think it's just cause it seems boring to me.
>>
>>1827183
Its actually kinda funny, as it makes the fallout base script into a religion.

We can talk about how the hero is accompanied by powerful companions against an evil that at first seems unconquerable. The importance of a dog, and massive change in the world that the hero's rise causes.
>>
>>1827186
>Ive more or less gotten over my mistrust of the hub, but I dont want ANY religion in charge of any of our infrastructure.
I don't think they're gonna be in charge of our infrastructure, more like just teaching our people.
Correct me if i'm wrong QM.
>>
>>1827192
Eh, I'd expand it to something towards the religion we had in Tundra quest (elemental / ancestral worship), although that'd probably annoy >>1827186 but my memory of how involved in our society's industry and shit the religion was I can't remember.


I do remember there being four religious orders: named after the four great gods of fire, water, air and earth. And I remember the existence of some other thing they did. Might've been our education system...
>>
>>1827199
I read tundra quest(I think) the religion fit, however i don't share the same sentiment about this religion of yours, i just don't like it.
>>
>>1827171
I hope you don't mean dating advice.

If you mean letting the Hubologists build:

Jacob Miles, Juia Farkas, Rufus, Usanagi and Mary-Jo Casse are pro allowing the Hub some freedoms. You suspect because most of them are members though you can't prove it.

Most everyone else doesn't care or thinks its just mumbo jumbo but says people doing things for free is always a good idea.

>Cass
"Ancient religions and hokey mind tricks are no match for a good hunting rifle"

Moreno says he doesn't trust religion in general and says the Enclave had a bad history with them.
"In God we Trust" not religion. Had a big civil war in the Enclave before I was born between the religious nutjobs and the President. We won. "If it weren't for that the Enclave would be nothing but 'God-Fearing' fanatics. Fear is the enemy."

The two mormons and a small following dissaprove, without also being given the right to build their own church.
>>
>>1827205
Fair enough, see how you feel about it later after you feel less tired and shit.
>>
>>1827199
I have no problem with you setting up a religion anon.

I just want to keep it out of the government as best I can.
>>
>>1827195
You're still in charge of infrastructure, they're just given permission to pursue side projects and use resources, for a fee.
>>
>>1827208
Give the mormons church making rughts then. Though they will have to pay for it themselves.
>>
>>1827208
So, would the Hubologists be in control of glass production or would they be in charge of training people to produce glass?

Also guys why don't we just automate the factory?

>>1827208
>without also being given the right to build their own church.
Unless their church can deflect psi attacks or produce glass, they can shut the fuck up.
>>
>>1827215
I can agree to that.
>>
>>1827211
Ironic. That is the exact opposite of how we did it in Tundra quest.


I mean, we managed to maintain a stable caste system into a democratic state and then a short span with a dictator before returning to democracy on his death. I'm not saying we can't do better in some regards but a large amount of our ideas there would work here and would be pretty good ideas in general.
>>
>>1827213
Well then ill change my vote to in favor, ill trust you qm.

Im fine extending the same permission to the mormons if thats something they want.
>>
>>1827213
This good for you Multiple ID anon?
>>
>>1827216
They just want permission to build
a church like we gave the hubbologists.
>>
>>1827220
I feel like I should read it.

>>1827226
Good enough for me.
>>
>>1827208
Give Mormons right to build a church. Might as well
>>
>>1827216
>Also guys why don't we just automate the factory?
Thats a good question thats been asked by a lot of citizens anon. Yep
>>
>>1827238
What would we need to automate?
>>
>>1827216
>Also guys why don't we just automate the factory?
Which factory?
>>
>>1827213
Let's set a limit on it of a year and then we decide if we want to renew the deal. Since we will be far stronger in a year and can afford to waste shit producing glass, assuming we've not completely automated that level of production and shit.

>>1827228
When did we give the Hubbologists a church? From what I remember they built it themselves and it protected / saved us from psi attack.

If the Christians want to build a church, fine, but they'll pay like any other private group for the land and resources (assuming they purchase it from us or get us to build it in return for something).


>>1827238
Wait, seriously that can be done? We don't have any reason not to?


Fuck it, let's spend a turn or two automating all of our factories, freeing up our followers / engineers to teach others and to science and shit.
>>
>>1827242
An action
>>
>>1827243
The glass one.

>>1827238
Can we automate all the factories so we can get stuff from them on demand, without taking actions?
>>
>>1827243
The glass mill specifically but honestly any of them.


We also need to get round to automating the production of Hexcrete / raw materials for it and glass.

Then we can just focus on salvaging the Divide, making our army and shit and then expanding / advancing.
>>
>>1827251
>>1827252
Why do we need to automate the glass mill? There are more important factories that need to be automated.
>>
>>1827248
Just one? Per automation of each factory?
>>
>>1827255
We should probably automate them all to be honest.
>>
CLARIFICATION

Although you can automate the glass factory and improve OUTPUT, you still need to spend an action to actually distribute and install the glass and suff to make people happ(ier than they were before)

However, once the 2nd Construction Action is ready, when it is not being used the civilian sector will use it on their own.
>>
>>1827255
Resource gathering takes a bit more than an action. Needs gatherers and a loading bay.

So two actions maybe. Should pribably do that.
>>
>>1827259
See this is something we should probably have been informed of.


If we get a second construction action, our civilians will get their requests fulfilled passively.
>>
>>1827259
Dude, we build robot armies, mountain fortresses and whole traintracks in a couple of turns and we cant figure out how to install glass windows without the omni constructors?

This is my point on cock-blocking us randomly. *I* can install a window and I am a student.
>>
>>1827262
If we don't use it. So if we take 1 total construction action, it would do passive work, but id we use both of them, nothing happens.
>>
>>1827267
Clearly the solution here is to continue working on construction actions until we have more than we need.
>>
>>1827267
True but seeing as we can use one construction action for free (the second one) and the first one technically costs something, if we only use one, then we use the free one and the other one then is left to work on civilian requests, I think?

>>1827269
Yeah. Just work on more of them until we literally can't support additional construction with our resource gathering and then either expand that as much as possible or leave them to work on this shit while we expand.

Speaking of which, sometime in the next three turns: we send a teleportation unit to a town in Montana after convincing them to join us. Then we send through some robots and shit to establish the infrastructure we need and slowly expand out from there.

Then after we feel secure up there and more and more towns are joining us just for the benefits, we can switch focus to conquering the Legion again (not like we'd exactly stop building robots or anything so no loss).
>>
>>1827262
Yeah when it is not used. When have we ever not used construction action?
>>
>>1827292
We might have to put one aside if we're at war for the military action while researching something important.
>>
>>1827292
When we were low on resources or wanted to do research, military, hero and civilian actions all in the same turn.


Which to be frank at that point would be happening more and more since we'd mostly spend our time trying to get more construction actions so we could then focus our other actions on advancing technologically, culturally, etc.
>>
>>1827295
>>1827296
Still it's few and far between. It could be a nice supplement for civilians once we allow them and Hubs to do their thing
>>
>>1827299
True but our actions are very strong so it's not like they need to be frequent.
>>
>>1827296
I think 2 should be enough for a while, we need to focus on the other large tasks like the post scarcity developments and the new capital. Plus mobilizing to attack the legion for Vegas.
>>
>>1827303
Nope, we're getting to three and then we are going to spend an entire turn doing nothing but expanding our robot factory after greatly expanding our solar arrays.


Then with that massive power and industrial surplus, we'll salvage all the Divide and conquer the Legion.
>>
>>1827307
By the time we have three we shoukd have cold fusion, so no need for solar.
>>
>>1827303
Ye, I agree
>>
>>1827303
What else do we need for post scarcity again?
>>
>>1827315
Its so close. Its right there in the divide. And of course its the emp missles.

I want to go in next turn with the APC and 4 good men to shut it all down.
>>
>>1827325
I am not confident in sending in that little men, why can't we research the tunnel creating APCs first then dig into the base to flood it with robots?
>>
>>1827323
Better school.
A brain bunker for safe keeping.
Finish of the neuro research.
Maybe some other things.

There should be a pastebin somewhere way up the thread.
>>
>>1827330
I was thinking a small team infiltrates the command center, shuts down the defenses, and then the main forces come marching in.
>>
hey guys still reading archives but geres a few thoughts.

>hyperclaws

take a cloned deathclaw and implant a medical monitoring system and onboard computer. the computer will interface with the optic nerve and check a catalouge of threat/target profiles.

when a target is recognized special injectors will Supply a constant stream of combat drugs adjusted continuous by the medical diagnostic system to keep the creature at Peak Performance without killing it.

One of the major drawbacks of the deathclaw is its lack of Mobility that makes it vulnerable to long-range heavy weapons fire. In this model the charge instinct will set off a nerve linked computer-guided rocket assist jump. If enough fuel reserves are able to be carried rocket assisted limbs could easily tear through even the toughest armor.

In order to prevent the creature from shattering under the increased strain its bones should be laced with carbon nanotubes. Civic Lee we should use a technique similar to Concrete Construction where in cables are stretched through concrete before it is poured but then allowed to condense the concrete increasing its density. This would also make it much easier for the deathclaw to heal broken bones as they would literally be held together by fibers of carbon nanotubes.

Finally the creatures lungs should be implanted with scrubbers to prevent neurotoxins from killing it and its skin should be genetically altered to prevent the passage of certain types of neurotoxins and other poisons
>>
>>1827046
>I honestly do not fucking understand the level of distrust towards the Hubs. We have beyond doubt proof that they are not just a scam cult. Ahs-9 saved us once. Miles got vision for super upgrade for our city. But noooo let's introduce other religion so that we get religious tensions in future.
Completely agree anon.

Wish I was awake during the debate last night, would have supported them kick starting private industry.

They are interwoven into our state, and there is nothing wrong with that!

If we are concerned that they'll betray us or something, we should join the Church (as a private citizen) and work our way to a senior role - that way we can oversee their actions.
>>
>>1827158
Supporting hubs for private industry
>>
>>1827431
There is a revote active right
>>
>>1827158
Yes for private enterprise!
>>
>>1827116
>Take her advice
Focusing on one wife per month is the decent thing to do.

No rubbers though - America isn't going to repopulate itself, and we need to be an example to our people!
>>
>>1827364
We can improve them further.


If we inlay into or replace their claws with a mix of carbon nanotubes, saturnite, a plasma field (ambient generation combined with the following effect) and a protonic inversal field (from the link below), they'll cut through anything and horribly fuck up robots / PA as they do while essentially being unbreakable.

Then what we do is we give them the ability to cloak like a night-stalker (gene modification or augment), replace their throat / mouth / jaw with a plasma cannon / plasma-flamethrower or a heat-microwave ray cannon (what the tankitron has) or gene mod golden gecko genes in and make it breath through a rebreather built into it's body and then into it's artificial lungs which we can rip from the BOS Reavers for reverse engineering (would also help to deliver any stimulants). So it has some sort of ranged option and method of melting through obstacles.

Adding onto this, we can make them smarter with our current range of mods along with enhancing their regeneration, strength, agility, perception and so on. Hell we could even replace their eyes so they can see better (and at night using heat vision) and you know how we give our troops sub-dermal armour? Well even back in FO 2 there was an improved version of that at the cost of lowering charisma (by one) that gave double the benefit. Plus one that did the same thing but for protection from energy weapons and fire damage.

Not to mention that we have the artificial muscles from the Hazard harnesses which means we might be able to not only further enhance their strength by replacing some parts with that but give them something even harder to pierce if we mixed it with carbon nanotubes or ballistic fibre (we can get that tech from the Commonwealth).

Add in some sort of method that'll enable it to passively repair these systems and they could be left to roam enemy regions for months, surviving off the dead and healing from any wounds.

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Protonic_inversal_axe


And yes, I am talking about creating an invisible, PA-destroying, intelligent, kinda flying, fire / plasma-breathing, essentially un-killable death-claw.

I want 40 of them. We'll send them against the Legion and watch them tear them to shreds.
>>
>>1827525
At that point you might as well make it a robot that is shaped like a death claw. I'm fairly certain it has none of its original parts left.
>>
>>1827542
To be honest, you have a point but I'd point out that assuming the muscular enhancement doesn't pan out, then most of their body would still be original.


Anyhow, you tell me that that doesn't sound like a terrifying war beast to unleash on the Legion? Plus it'll be slightly cheaper than a equivalent robot.
>>
>>1827545
Probably, but we really have to develop better stealthboys, maybe ones that allow you to swap in microfusion cells or something. And working on robot based stealth would involve that.

Also, stealthing nightstalkers are only in Mojave, aren't they? because they chewed on a stealth boy near Jamestown.
>>
>>1827554
>Probably, but we really have to develop better stealthboys, maybe ones that allow you to swap in microfusion cells or something. And working on robot based stealth would involve that.
Oh aye, however we have access to the Chinese stealth tech, the pre-war american stealth suit and Big mt's research facilities. We can probably figure out a solution in regards to stealth.

>Also, stealthing night-stalkers are only in Mojave, aren't they? because they chewed on a stealth boy near Jamestown.
Nah, you can find them on the lower levels of X-13 according to the Wiki and they were given it by an unknown scientist meaning it should be possible to do.
>>
>>1827264
Windows do not install themselves and again, getting people to install them costs and action unless you have upgraded your facilities.

You are not of the sufficient scale for such things to be passive or beneath you. You are still at the CIty-State Scale, at National Scale these things can be handled by bureau's.

Nothing just comes out of thin air.

I'm sick and tired of this being called random and arbitrary. I think I need to take a break for a while.
>>
>>1827264
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sd3O3v5B-Q4
>>
>>1827668
Thats fine QM, Maybe the people who are new will fuck off.
>>
>>1827688
?? I think all he's asking for is a bit of suspension of disbelief and acceptance of game mechanics. Not to chase of new players. Maybe just belligerent ones.
>>
Rolled 4 (1d5)

I'm starting to think that not sleeping for a whole night having debates with anons and driving a whole day leaves one susceptible to being cranky but I still am going to stand by my decisions.

While I chill lemme see which wife you decide to spend some quality time with.
>Veronica
>Dandan
>Sonia
>Wendy
>Vanessa

Also you guys better wanna vote on this issue seriously.
>Repopulate more Courierlings
>>1826330
>>1827020
>>1827489
>What we have is enough
>>1826351
>>
>>1827688
I doubt its just the newfriends.
>>
>>1827701
>repopluate more couierlings NOW goddamnit.
>>
I need to make a new thread
>>
>>1827865
NEW THREAD




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