>Range
>Accuracy

>>1012240
II> Range
IV>Accuracy
>360 no scope long range cannon fire

File: Song gunsmith quest.jpg (120 KB, 675x671)

120 KB JPG

My resources are as follows:

>One medium sized workshop with benches and rooms for me and my workers.

>12 menials who obey me. They are pretty poor but are willing to learn and can be improved. They will do all the things I am not doing.

>Several Qua prototype copies

>A copy of the first ever fire arm, two years old design.

>a forge

>plenty of pipes, metal ingots, gunpowder and the reagents to make gun powder.

I am also fairly competent in each aspect of making a gun. However making improvements is not as easy.

when a third vote on our Qua prototype attribute bonuses has been made I will give the next thing to vote upon, which will be our character's focuses, a weakness and something else.

>>1012249
Supporting, however I think reliability should be the #1 factor we work towards next.

>>1012283
>>1012269
>>1012249
Ahh, my beloved Qua model. Compared to the antique, my design can actually hit something from across the room. It still takes a long time to load, breaks or misfires more often than not, does almost no damage - can barely dent wood, and bruises the should when fired.

But, it's a start.

A design that will surely be able to be improved by the deadline in three months, because...

A: I am extremely diligent and hard working
B: I am extremely intelligent and have the best ideas
C: I have extremely fine hands and excellent eyesight, able to see and fix imperfections
D: I have been to university and have huge amounts of knowledge and training.
E: I have great charisma and a good relationship with all the other gunsmiths in this city, so if they have an idea I can use, I can convince them to tell me it.
F: My menials are clever, and in fact they were the ones who did all the work in designing my Qua design.

But, I must always remind myself that these two strengths are not as strong as my pride thinks they are. They are still strengths though.

>>1012321

>B.
>E.

>>1012321
>B
>D
We have the macro, our servants have the micro. Let's strat it up boys.

>>1012321
B
C
The ideas are our own and we get them working without help from others

>>1012321
>B
>F
We have the good ideas and let our minions work out the finer details

>>1012356
Switching

Okay so B: I am extremely intelligent and have the best ideas

is locked in.

D has two votes while C and E each have one

>>1012382

I'm willing to switch to D although I think sticking with E and being able to get other peoples best ideas would be a good play too. Best of both worlds.

>>1012382
Actually to make things more interesting let's learn from experience, I'll switch my vote from D to C even if it is less efficient.

So that would be D getting three votes.

Everyone happy with B and D being our characters best traits?

>>101239
Do it

>>1012398
*misread the switches.

looks like people are fine with B and D

3 minutes to contest it just in case

>>1012321
A: I am extremely diligent and hard working
D: I have been to university and have huge amounts of knowledge and training.

>>1012407
Well I switched to C. I dunno if you need to see an eye doctor mate but C has 2 votes and D has one. I won't mind either way but still

>>1012413
Actually this makes it 2 to 2. So whatever I guess D is fine. No reason to tie and hold up the quest. I vote back round again for D

>>1012432

I switched from E to D as well to move things along. So thats another

>>1012436
i switched from F ->D to move thigs along

File: 1481711129690.jpg (152 KB, 702x768)

152 KB JPG

>>1012321
>B
>D
Pic related

>>1012426
sorry lol. Well, your first vote happened.
>>1012432
Sweet :D
I am extremely intelligent and have the best ideas
I have been to university and have huge amounts of knowledge and training.
win
---

So, I have three months to get a product that my Song emperor can use in his armies. The model doesn't need to be amazing, but it does need to be useful.

My first priority of the week was (two for me):

>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model

>Improve workers

>improve upon the ammunition

>improve the work shop

>write in
---
And my orders for the menials were (2 of them)

>make full guns

>make parts of guns

>design something

>teach themselves

>write in

>>1012407
Ill support what was chosen. I just noticed this thread. Would have been here sooner if I had seen it.

>>1012456
>>Improve workers
>>improve upon the ammunition

>>teach themselves
>>design something

>>1012456
>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model
reliability, we want these things killing what you aim it at not the person holding the gun.
>improve upon the ammunition

as for the menials
>design something

>teach themselves

>>1012456
>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model
>Improve workers

>make full guns
>make parts of guns

The rationale behind this is to educate the workers and design in tandem as they work. We get on the dot dimensions and the workers get better at making guns. Then we can find ways to improve on individual parts and stuff later on. But this should provide a good base.

>>1012456
>>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model
>>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model

>>design something
>>teach themselves

>>1012456
My priorities
>Improve upon the ammunition
>Improve workers

Workers
>Make parts of guns
>teach themselves

Give us a bit better shot for them to work with, and makes them better at building the actual guns themselves so they are guns instead of pipe-bombs on a handle

>>1012481
Fuck exploding cannons

Okay so we got: Four votes for Improve Qua model and for the Teach Themselves.

Three for Improve workers and Improve Ammunition and Design something.

Make full guns and make gun parts got 1 and 2 respectively.

So our first personal action will be Improve Qua model.

Menial's first action is Teach Themselves.

---
Do we want to personally Improve workers or Improve Amunition?

And are our Menials find with doing their own design work?

>>1012588
Improve Workers, teach them about double-checking things and quality control. Demonstrate by also teaching hand tool use, inspecting and showing mistakes, and showing how to fix them.

>>1012596
This, we want them to learn early, so we can avoid basic mistakes and get more work done.

>>1012612
Yep also supporting

>>1012588
>>>1012588
also work with menials to on our improvement work, allowing them a better idea of how the canon works

>>1012588
Err, about the menials and design work, we should have them run their ideas through us before using any resources on them, other than a bit of paper.

>>1012624
That's also a good point, but I think that's a given.

I chose to:

Personal: Improve Qua model. Improve Menials

Menial Orders: Teach Themselves. Design work (running it past us)

this week.

And everything went as expected.

roll D100s

Rolled 93 (1d100)

>>1012663

Rolled 37, 70, 57, 76 = 240 (4d100)

>>1012663

Rolled 93, 54, 60, 26 = 233 (4d100)

>>1012663

Rolled 76, 61, 44, 83 = 264 (4d100)

>>1012668
Oooooh 4 of them for each thing. Got it.

Rerolling

Oh shit I have a cunning plan. Since most of the guns we have now can't penetrate wood and arrows have trouble doing so as well. We can put our guns on the back of a horse cart, cover it in a wooden box on top. Then make view ports and Tadaa!

Protected from rain, arrows and cheap small arms. Only problem is it's heavy and needs to be driven by horses. that is givin we are crewing a cannon in one.

>>1012668
My ideas for improving my design were amazing. I realized that I needed to use better quality material for the weapon. Now that I had the design updated, I could make progress on building a new submodel.

(crafting of more reliable Qua possible)

>>1012671
>>1012676
>>1012694
I also spent the week with my menials, teaching them how to be better. While they are still poor quality, they are less shit. Together they can make a copy of a prototype if they have that prototype available to painstakingly examine.

(menials can make copies)

I ordered the menials to teach and practice themselves. I was pleasantly surprised that they made any noticeable progress. They have figured out to keep gunpowder dry, and that guns need to be cleaned after being fired otherwise they can't fire properly.

Finally, I ordered and made to check on their design work. I didn't expect much, and they didn't deliver much. However, they were able to at least get a few designs that were equal to the first cannon made ever. Good practice for them at least. Would take a while to pay off though.

(menials can sometimes make the basic firearm)

---
>>1012745
a cunning plan indeed :)

Qua 1.000 model: 1 in every stat apart from 2 in Range and Accuracy.

Our 1.001. 1 in every stat but 2 in reliability, accuracy and range.

Original Gun: 1 in every stat.

Best design that menials can make themselves: 1 in every stat

---
3 months minus one week.

---

Poor menials: 130 points (d100s give points needless to say) till Fairly poor menials.

---
The Administrators will drop by at end of month for a status update.

---
Quite pleased with myself for getting a better design after only a week of effort, I decided to focus for the second week on, (two for me):

>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model

>Improve workers

>improve upon the ammunition

>improve the work shop

>write in
---
And my orders for the menials were (2 of them)

>make full guns

>make parts of guns

>design something

>teach themselves

>write in


does the layout make clear sense?

>>1012816


>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model
>improve the work shop


>make parts of guns
>teach themselves

We should improve the workshop so when we do start mass producing guns we have a better facility.

>>1012816

Mine
>Improve the workshop
>Improve upon an aspect of the Qua model (Reload time)

Menials

>Teach themselves
>Make gun parts

If we beef up the shop, perhaps it'll improve the rate they turn out parts? Plus, making it easier to reload would make a big difference in the army.

>>1012816
seems fine to me.

I think we should
>Improve workers
>improve the shop

and I think the menials should
>teach themselves twice
They should specialize, with each worker mastering a single part of creating a gun. The idea is that none of them master the WHOLE process and take off on us to set up their own shop, and that it should be easier to have 2 barrelmakers, 2 fine parts makers, 2 woodworkers, 2 assemblers etc. instead of 12 full gunsmiths.
If we can't double up then
>make full gun(s)
I only expect one, but I expect it to be a good example of Qua 1.001 Model. They should all work on producing something different, and the ones who will do the same type of work should work together on doing that part of the single firearm.

>>1012904
to expand on the workers thing, I think maybe

2 barrelmakers, we will need lots of barrels, at least one per gun.

2 small parts makers, these guys will make all the other metal parts like locks, triggers, screws, etc.

2 woodworkers, these guys make the stocks, grips, fancy carving, etc.

2 assemblers, these guys put the parts together according to the design

2 powder makers, these guys will be our experts on gunpower

2 ball makers, these guys will focus on making the shot to be fired.

>>1012904
>>1012944
yes, division of labour is an excellent idea. Especially with your point about making sure none of them can betray us by stealing our plans and making the guns themselves, due to only having a specific part they make.

--
there seems to be a consensus on improving the Qua model design to have a faster reload, and improve the workshop.

Menials teaching themselves and making gun parts are winning.
Of course, thuch of the teaching themselves is you wanting it to be double.

--

Walking my doggo now, will update when I get back.

>>1012816
>>1012904
Support.

So if we want to improve the damage of our guns we have to improve ammo right?

>>1012960

I support the division of labor, not sure if thats an action we are taking or just a decision we are making

>>1013022
Improve durability for greater powder loads.
Improving ammunition means different types of munition I believe, which doesn't always lead to just improved damage.

Granted, if we are not yet operating on lead shot levels yet, it's quite troubling.

>>1013069
Wasnt quite sure since up here >>1012240
there is no durability for powder load but there is an ammunition quality. Just wasnt sure if there were any other aspects being used for the gun.

>>1013022
ammunition improvement would make our gunpowder and or bullets better. At the moment we have it good enough provided we bring up the model to adequate standard.

Damage can be improved by quite a lot of things, of which better gunpowder is one of them.
It would also mean different munition a bit later on.

>>1013115
we are using lead shot

>>1013124
Would be an element of ammunition quality. At the moment we haven't really done anything in regards to durability - the reliability so far was just using better materials that would work better. Stronger barrel would be included within durability.

---

I looked around the workshop and decided to act upon the lack of proper fine tools and benches. The forge was a bit lacking, and the molds were not good quality. While I was sure that I could produce an adequate prototype for the army in time, I would not be very content.

I took another look at my Qua design. I fired a few rounds - making certain to clean the gun carefully after every shot - and once again found the time it took to fire and reload safely to be vast. In a battle only a single shot could be fired before the cavalry would close in. So I would spend much of my week forming a better reload design.

As for my menials, they were much too lacking to be worth making capable of building guns individually. They must be given a different method.

I devised to get them to split up into pairs and learn to make a specific part. Two would make the barrel, two would make small parts, two woodworkers, and on it would go.

An added side effect of my genius idea, was that they would never be able to rebel against me to make their own gun manufactory, for only I knew how to make the entire gun, and they would be unlikely to work together without my leadership...

----
Roll 4d100

Rolled 59, 48, 74, 46 = 227 (4d100)

>>1013323

Let's give it a shot!

Rolled 83, 60, 14, 83 = 240 (4d100)

>>1013323

Rolled 76, 5, 63, 55 = 199 (4d100)

>>1013323

83, 60, 74, 83

First things first, replacing the tools with better ones. I ordered blacksmiths to make them. They did. I also had the forge improved a little. Hotter flame, slightly larger. And then I personally crafted molds to fit my updated ideas.

Next on my agenda was improving the fuse design so that it would go off faster, and I added replacement fuses so that it could be reloaded and fired faster. Still, there were a number of other adjustments before reloading would be improved enough to warrant its own model number.

[60/150 to reloading level 2]

--
My division of labour plan for my menials worked out rather well. In pairs they can make a number of adequate quality specific parts. Several times more than they would otherwise make making guns individually. Not perfect just yet, but a significant improvement.

[menials making full guns is now obsolete. Making parts order is much more effective]

---
2 more weeks until the admins check up on how we are doing
3months-2weeks left before military needs our best model.

---
I decided to take an afternoon off to reward myself for the genius of division of labour and improving my workshop. But all rest must come to an end. This third week..

>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model

>Improve workers

>improve upon the ammunition

>improve the work shop

>write in
---
And my orders for the menials were (2 of them)


>make parts of guns

>design something

>teach themselves

>write in

>>1013433
>>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model
Reloading
>>improve upon the ammunition

>>make parts of guns
>>teach themselves

>>1013454
Sure I'll support this. Though I would rather specialize in accuracy and range.

>>1013490
we can specialize in accuracy and range but the military would typically prefer being able to fire faster. Especially if they are shooting a mounted units are going to charge at the riflemen.

>>1013541
>>1013490
>>1013454
Okay, working on completing the reloading, and making the ammunition better.

Setting our workers to making parts. And teaching themselves, which will be to do with improving their crafting skill in their assigned division.
---

Roll

Rolled 60, 24, 57, 44 = 185 (4d100)

>>1013554

Rolled 6, 19, 94, 67 = 186 (4d100)

>>1013554

>>1013541
Well that's if we're specifically talking about repelling cavalry charges, as the opening of a skirmish or in the event of a prolonged skirmish, accuracy and range is better. And typically speaking most battles had skirmishes that lasted for days. Additionally there were far more seiges than battles.

>>1013570
true but cavalry are the terror of most ranged units, mostly due to them being trained for only ranged and not equipped at all for melee(stupid cost efficiency in armies). Least when it is from pre-modern military.

Granted being able to fire farther and accurate will definitely help us, lest sale wise, and shooting farther can offset the reload time if we can make it go the distance.

Rolled 85, 41, 70, 37 = 233 (4d100)

>>1013554

>>1013565
>>1013570
>>1013582
85,41,94,67

I spent another week trying to finish the reloading upgrade. I am almost done with it, just a little bit more to do. I have designed a new way of cleaning out the barrel. It's a long metal rod with cloth around it. And the fuses are fixed. All that is needed it adjusting the barrel to have slightly larger hole for a larger fuse so it's easier to put in it.

(145/150 to level 2 reloading. Overkill points will apply)

---
Ammunition was sub optimal and needed to be improved. I didn't make much progress, but my beginning experiments with packing gunpowder more tightly in the barrel, and adjusting the shape of the lead shot were showing promise.

(41/150 level 2 ammunition)

---
My workers did a fantastic job now that they knew how to do their job. An abundance of individual parts have been made. I have more parts to experiment on and adjust without having to worry about a lack of parts. Not all were made good enough, but a good amount were.

(20 gun parts of each type. Practical experimentation will be easier, and making prototypes will be faster due to not needing to make as many parts for a single prototype test)

---
They were capable of obeying my orders to improve themselves, and each can make better parts.

(menials are almost Fairly Poor rather than Poor quality)

---
3 months minus 3 weeks.
One week till inspection


>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model

>Improve workers

>improve upon the ammunition

>improve the work shop

>write in
---
And my orders for the menials were (2 of them)


>make parts of guns

>design something

>teach themselves

>write in

>>1013611
>>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model
Reload and accuracy.
(Might as well go for the finish on that now. Once we are done we can deal with damage next time and swap between accuracy and range)

>design something
>teach themselves

>>1013654
Supporting.

>>1013654
>>1013678
Okay

Roll

Rolled 63, 64, 100, 1 = 228 (4d100)

>>1013708

Now this sounds like something I could get into

Rolled 90, 48, 26, 38 = 202 (4d100)

>>1013708
Rollan

Rolled 66, 71, 73, 60 = 270 (4d100)

>>1013708

Okay I am back from dinner.

>>1013743
:)

>>1013717
>>1013751
>>1013752
90, 71, 100, 60

pretty good.

File: 300px-Breech_122m10_hamee(...).jpg (15 KB, 300x225)

15 KB JPG

While I only had to finalize the adjustments to the reloading mechanisms, I had some inspiration. Why not make a barrel that can break, allowing the ammunition to be put in without having to have the entire barrel to shove the stuff into? I was able to make something called a Breach mechanism. Like the picture I have sketched up right here. Except not as advanced.
This impressive leap of design will stand me in good.

Discovered breech loading gun
Though I would have to spend some time getting my Qua model updated to the superior style.

My efforts to improve accuracy have been bearing some fruit. Nowhere near completed, but adjusting the shape of the lead shot to be longer and slightly more like an arrow has made it go a little further. And I have been adjusting the length of the barrel.

(71/200 before level 3 range)

To my utter amazement, my orders to the menials were taken up with exuberance and, and this will shock you to, success. The menials took it upon themselves to go beyond just drawing pathetic doodles on paper.

In their pairs, they made significant improvements to designs of parts. One even messed around with alloys and found a less brittle whilst just as hard copper alloy for use with some of the firing mechanisms.

An entire quality level in reliability has been figured out by my men.

Reliability is now level 2. Menials have also surged into "Fairly Poor" quality

I then told them to teach themselves a little more, which they had already, as mentioned above. From Fairly Poor, they may just make it to Below Average by next month.

(Menials are Fairly Poor, 60/200 till Below Average).

----

The Administration inspection arrived at the day they said they would. As was expected, since the Administration is highly punctual and top notch. One of the Song Dynasty's greatest strengths.

"Hello Administrator Kitchai, would you like to see my progress on the Gun designs and prototypes me and my menials are working on?"

"Yes, first off, your workshop is much improved. I can see it is clean and there are better tools...
That is a very interesting gun. I have never seen a design like that... You say that it's designed to be broken along the hinges? and loaded after being cleaned? very revolutionary make I must say."

"Yes Administrator, it was a stroke of genius if I might say so myself. It is called a Breech Loader. The army will be much more powerful once I have improved every other aspect.
Right now, without any wear and tear, and without stress, I can use the latest prototype to fire lead across the room, leaving a dent in the wall but no real damage. It makes a pig bleed when fire from here at it when we bring in one for testing.

However, given two months I shall have a gun capable for the army to use. It may not be as reliable as an archer with a bow and arrow, but it will be scary for horses and have stopping power.
Our present focus has been on reload time, range, reliability and accuracy..."

"...That sounds logical. I would like it if you made sure that when I or a subordinate visits next month at the same time of day, that you can reliably kill a pig from across the room. Also I will remind you to remember that the gun will be used by soldiers who are going to make errors, so try to make the guns not too fragile and finnicky."

"Thank you Administratory Kitchai, would you like a tea..."

And so my first appointment went quite well. Kitchai rewarded me with more resources and authority. The other gun designers are now ordered to give me a copy of their designs. Looking through the diagrams and notes, I was able to get enough research for one upgrade to my design.

>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model
>Reliability
>Range
>Accuracy
>Reliability
>Reload
>Recoil
>write in

>improve upon the ammunition

Goodnight all, thanks for playing

>>1013847
Thanks for running

>>1013843
>Recoil

Less recoil = less time spent on training soldiers = Faster blitzkrieg

>>1013843
>Recoil

Also, OP, can you please list what our current status is on all on our model?

Qua 1.000 model. 1 in every stat apart from 2 in range and accuracy.

Qua 1.001 model, 1 in every stat but 2 in reliability accuracy and range.

Latest design for the pre-breech:
Level 1: all, with Ammunition (41/150 to next)
Level 2: Reloading, accuracy and range
Level 3: Reliability, Recoil (since this latest vote is in favour of recoil)

Breech loading gun: Level 1: all, with Ammunition (41/150 to next)
Level 2: Accuracy and range (71/200)

Level 3: Reliability, Reloading, Recoil (since this latest vote is in favour of recoil)

---
Menials are Fairly Poor, 60/200 till Below Average

Workshop decent

NOW good night :) I have work tomorrow but will try to do an update before hand, and update after work.

>>1013926
G'night

>>1013926
Range = More power, correct?

>>1013967
>Damage can be improved by quite a lot of things, of which better gunpowder is one of them.
It would also mean different munition a bit later on.

Most likely

File: culverin.jpg (660 KB, 1600x1493)

660 KB JPG

Biggest issue I believe is that it doesn't reliably kill it's target yet within any reasonable distance.

There are couple of things we can work on.
1. More efficient ammunition. Namely, producing powder that has more kick to it.
2. Increase the lenght of the weapon, this will naturally make it more expensive as it will consume more metal, but will save on ammo costs.
3. Producing more reliable guns, meaning they can handle bigger powder loads.
Naturally, better recoil management will also contribute to being able to handle bigger powder loads.

Having a breechloader is all well and good, but the increase in rate of fire isn't that drastic when you gotta clean the gun after every shot after all.
It is however, far more ergonomic to do so with a breechloader than with a muzzle loader, seeing that you can prime and load the weapon in one go.

>>1013967
Pretty sure it just means the projectile flies off farther and more accurately

could we push for a double rifle of some sort? That and improved shot and powder could do us some good.

>>1014021
Which in turn would imply more velocity, which in turn would imply more power.

>>1014037
We're still working on handgonne territory though, meaning we don't even have regular rifles.

>>1014040
double handgonne then, to improve on reload times/better volley fire ability before a charge?

>>1014047
Having multiple barrels would increase reload times and unless the weapon can take out at least horses somewhat reliably, then at this point of developement, it would make little sense to add additional barrels.

I personally believe that in consideration of the type of war that Chinese typically wage, we should focus on developing a weapon capable of penetrating multiple troops, slaying cavalry and most importantly, breaking the enemy morale.

File: handgonnes.jpg (638 KB, 1600x1200)

638 KB JPG

>>1014051
I don't think we've got ergonomic stocks like that just yet.

File: on8700__1.jpg (52 KB, 1200x1200)

52 KB JPG

>>1013926
So do any of the qua models have a mounting point for a bayonet? Because having a bayonet seems like a good idea to me.

File: gua 1.png (281 KB, 1413x879)

281 KB PNG

>>1014203
This is basically the type of weapon we're operating with right now.
We've got a breechloading handgonne which is pretty weak.

File: gua 2.png (196 KB, 961x589)

196 KB PNG

>>1014203
Basically you stick it at the end of a stick and fire away.
You can't exactly make a mounting point for a a bayonet into one of these, because they're simply too small.

It would make more sense to attach it to another weapon.

>>1014487
Ah. How far off do you think we are from transitioning into a more rifle-like design from our current handgonne design?

>>1014203
Actually here's an idea.

A multi purpose cleaning rod.

Essentially a standard rod with a cleaning end, but on the other end is a split in the rod with two prongs to hold the gun. We add a small nub the size of the powdered part to the cleaning end and wallah.

You can clean the barrel just fine, then stick the stub into the ground and lay the gun on the prongs for extra stability when firing.

>>1014705
Then we can clip the rod to the underside of the gun when not in use, and the sharp nub at the cleaning end can be used as a bayonet. The blood of the enemy will soak the cloth and make the barrel oiled and easier to get guff out of.

>>1014596
Extend the barrel, attach a stock and stick a firing mechanism on it and you've got a something that looks like a rifle.

>>1014705
Well, first thing we ought to do is figure out what exactly is the thing that's making our gun so weak that it can't put a hole in a wall.

There's three possible options.
1. The gas seal is weak (most likely situation)
2. The barrel is too short, meaning that the projectile doesn't have time to achieve sufficient acceleration to reach lethal speeds.
3. The powder load is too light (unlikely as the recoil is sufficient to cause bruising)

I believe we should improve upon the ammunition and the barrel asap to get it fit for military use and then start working on the reliability of it.

Two priorities right now are to make it lethal and then make it safe.

what time period does this quest even take place?

>>1016602
13th century Song Dynasty China. About 30 to 40 years before Kublai Khan with the help of Marco Polo beat the living shit out of Liu Biaoi.

Breech loaders were invented in the 14th century.

So some of our designs are a century ahead, but our handgun is not reliably lethal even at low range yes.

>>1015414
desu I am not even a gun enthusiast, I just wanted to have a research focused quest where us being on the historical losing side would allow us to advance tech relatively fast without autowinning.

Update coming soon

>>1017609
Glad you're back

>>1017623
Thanks:)
Actually, the voting hasn't happened yet.

For us:
>Improve workshop

>improve workers

>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model
>Reliability
>Range
>Accuracy
>Reliability
>Reload
>Recoil
>write in

>improve upon the ammunition

Menials:
>make parts of guns

>design something

>teach themselves

>write in

>>1017637
For us:
>>improve workers
Improve upon an aspect of the qua model
>Reliability
Menials:
>teach themselves

I will take into account the discussion above. At about level 4 improvements the aspect approaches competence, though depending on the aspect it's more or less important.

>>1017637
>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model
>Reliability
>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model
>Reliability

>teach themselves
>teach themselves

>>1017637
>Improve workers
>Improve upon the ammunition

>teach themselves
>teach themselves

Good to see you again.

Hmm does anyone want to tie break?

>>1017889
Just change my vote to Reliability then so we can move on. Not a big deal.

>>1017637
> reliability
Since our next task is taking down a pig I don't think ammunition would be holding us back, unless we have slugs that are too small for the barrel or are not packing the powder (packet?) right. We need to increase the efficiency that the explosive force is transferred to the bullet.

Also a point of interest, putting a hole in a pig and killing it (in a short enough time to demonstrate) are two different things. Growing up we killed pigs by shooting them in the head with a .22 to knock them out. The we would slit their throat and stand well back as they woke up and started panicking as they bleed out.

>>1017907
Was it the impact of the round against the skull that knocked them out?

>>1017907
yeah, pigs are tough to kill, the Administrator doesn't know that guns take a while before they can kill reliably. Still, it's a target we hopefully can meet.

Reliability times 2

Teach themselves times 2

Roll

>>1017914
Yup

Rolled 63, 78, 45, 38 = 224 (4d100)

>>1017918
rollin
>>1017919
neat

Rolled 62, 63, 3, 57 = 185 (4d100)

>>1017918
Like this?

Rolled 28, 47, 29, 14 = 118 (4d100)

>>1017918

>>1017926
>>1017928
>>1017929
63, 78,45, 57

Not too bad.

writing

>>1017935
I assume this means we made the bare minimum amount of progress in each area. I hope we figure out how to properly maximize the explosive force on the round soon.

I focused all my first week of the second month on making a more reliable model. I figured out how to seal the ammunition within the barrel better, so much more of the gunpowder's explosion would be released as propellant for the bullet. As opposed to how it was before hand where much of the explosion was dissipated through the trigger and ignition mechanism.
I also strengthened the barrel and made a more distinct chamber for the munitions. Instead of just a tube with a breech it is now more refined.

Reliability has improved to level 4, and ammunition has been improved to level 2 by having better mechanism allowing more efficient powder usage. The gun can reliably fire twice before requiring a thorough clean. At least in workshop environment.


My orders for my menials was to work on themselves again. There were some errors, but overall the complete focus on improvement without doing other stuff too, meant that they could flourish. Still not quite there yet.

Menials are 142/200 till Below Average




---
>>1017943
We certainly improved and ammunition efficiency is better.

Us:
>Improve workshop

>improve workers

>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model
>Reliability
>Range
>Accuracy
>Reliability
>Reload
>Recoil
>write in

>improve upon the ammunition
---
Menials
>make parts of guns

>design something

>teach themselves

>write in

>>1017997
>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model
>Accuracy
>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model
>Range

>teach themselves
>teach themselves

>>1017997
>Improve Workshop
>Improve Accuracy

>Teach Themselves
>Teach Themselves

It's been awhile since we improved our workshop. It might help us save time later.

>>1017997
Us:
>Improve workshop
>try to maximize muzzle velocity on the Qua model (increase barrel length)

Menials:
>make parts of guns
>teach themselves

Okay so Improve workshop has been locked in for one of our two personal actions.

>what is the second personal action?

Teach themselves Times Two is locked in for the menials.

>>1018037
I still say we should try and maximize muzzle velocity by experimenting with longer barrels

Okay.
Roll for workshop, muzzle velocity (which will probably help range in some way too)

double teach.

roll

Rolled 52, 26, 19, 38 = 135 (4d100)

>>1018061

Rolled 58, 47, 51, 16 = 172 (4d100)

>>1018061

Rolled 49, 97, 94, 79 = 319 (4d100)

>>1018061

>>1018064
>>1018066
>>1018096
58, 97, 94, 79

Really good.

Writing v soon

File: Administrator C.jpg (129 KB, 707x1000)

129 KB JPG

Ahh, better tools for my rapidly advancing ideas. I made special measuring rods, clamps and finer saws. I also experimented with different woods, so that I could better determine the damage my experimental guns were doing in test firing.
Reasonable improvements but nothing revolutionary.

What was revolutionary, was my realization that a longer barrel means faster muzzle velocity. I in fact didn't consider muzzle velocity at all previously. Faster bullet of course means it does more damage, with more momentum and longer range.

So I doubled the length of the barrel and adjusted a few other parts to accommodate the change. It had a significant effect. Instead of being a bit of a spitting behaviour - sort of flopping out the muzzle - it flew out and heavily dented the wooden wall across the room.

Damage and range improved a level each

Again I ordered my menials to improve themselves. They succeeded, to say the least
Nowhere near your skill level, they are still capable of good quality parts and are able to do their own improvements upon the specific parts they are assigned.

Menials are now Below Average (115/250 before Average). Actually capable of progressing designs now

---

Ending for the night, will do a compilation of what improvements and designs we have a bit later.

Pic related is the Administrator.

Also feel free to do discussion :)

>>1018166
thanks for running man.

>>1018174
I can't wait until we end up making the Song dynasty hold off the Mongols with 15th century weaponry.

If you want to read a quest that inspired this quest, https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/deus-ex-mechanicus-reboot-quest-thread.312597/

One of the best quests I know of.

>>1018189
Sounds interesting, and I have a few hours to kill anyways. Thanks for that. I'm excited to start wrecking shit

>>1018166
Thanks for running. I'm curious to see how far we can advance.

>>1018196
>inb4 we advance far enough to get mosin's

I hope we take this gun toward a new and unique design direction instead of just recreating a historical gun we already know works

>>1018332
Gun design is already interesting, maybe we can design Canons and artillery later on.
Maybe have a sort of legacy that will allow the Song to become a world power and fend off the Western colonisation (if it ever happen) and extend our influence.
As is breach loading swivel guns are pretty good tech and if we can find a way to allow production to follow technology we might be able to actually arm ships and fend off any foreign agression and maybe gay some hegemony.
Or you know we could do cool stuff like not helping the Song and defecting to another nation or seize some part of power within the Army.
Just arrived and read the thread but this has got huge potential to be fun.

>>1018350
Well, history does show that access to new weapons does rarely lead to radical changes in combat doctrine and chinese society is quite rigid.

Depending on the direction which the guns shall take, it will not be at all surprising that the weapon will be reserved for the nobility and their close retainers due to its nature to fend off a cavalry attack, potentially pierce armor as well as requiring powder supply lines to keep it operational.

Especially considering the sizes of chinese levies

>>1018373
best way to diversify our program in a way that would make us relevant in warfare woul be to create arrow rocket artillery like Hwacha and Singijeons.
They could be quite useful to light wodden siege construct on fire.
Also Swivel guns are 100% relevant and important and could lead to actually useful weapons that could be loaded on ships since we don't need to mass produce them since ships are going to be rare anyhow.
And cannons even if primitive and breach loading are relevant in siege as always since huge canons could breach Gates.
On a more historical point we could work on developing a new and improved Pen Huo Qi or other kinds of flamethrowers.
But you are right to say we might not be able to influence greatly history and if we do influence history it would be uncertain that it would lead to favorable results because we have limited control on destiny.

>>1018350
Ultimately though, the entire conflict took place to protect opium trade.
China did actually have access to guns back then, but ultimately was corrupt and divided.

>>1018379
Hwacha and Singijeon neither are capable pf actually setting things on fire.
They are however, excellent at scaring the crap out of enemies, which is really important when dealing with the sort of mass war Chinese wage.

Swivel guns would be awesome and relevant, you are correct.
China however, is not much of a naval power though in the means of navigation or ship quality.
Still, you need waterproof cartridges for that.
Swivel guns are excellent for defending sieges though, seeing that they can penetrate multiple targets, which is sort of what we want.

Cannons are great for breaking gates and for firing back at enemy artillery.

>>1018389
>is not much of a naval power
Frankly since what we're mostly initially aiming to do is to defend our shores, we don't need a huge naval tradition, if we bring breach loading swivel guns on a ship before 1450, and judging by how early on tech is going right now we might be able to do production of theses as early as 1250 since we currently are in around 1160-1200.
Naval swivel guns would be VERY RELEVANT in naval fights if perfected, it's ming dynasty tech made accesible in Song dynasty era and i would go as far as saying it would greatly overpower other navies even if fitted on something like a cog.
We just need to work on Range and Reliability.
Waterproof catridges would indeed require us to work on our gunpowder but i think that having a breach-loading canon is 100% relevant in naval warfare especially when you're the only one to have one.

>>1018397
Wouldn't say they'd greatly overpower other navies with just swivel guns, you'd certainly get an edge, but ultimately swivel guns don't really sink ships as much as they mess up boarding parties.

They could still set your ship on fire from range just as easily as they did before.

>>1018479
Alright let's consider we don't fuck up and create a swivel gun with reasonable qualities for our time.
I'd imagien the size to be close to a french 4 pounder but with half it's range due to the power being lost because of breach loading purely for hypothesis.
That bring us to a Maximum Range of 600 meters.
Knowing an English longbow can fire arrows up to 370 meters we'd have a 230 meter range advantage against primitive navies.
But "hold on i might hear you say next", "Wouldn't competent navies have more advance artillery".
That is true but knowing a scorpio Maximum range to be around 400 meters and the polybos around 460 meters
we still would SEVERLY outrange them by more than 100 meters.
Which is more than enough with competent crew and navigation to at least fire two shots BEFORE THEY EVEN GET INTO RANGE.
Meaning we could easily fit ships with a few of thoses and with up to two of thoses on the sides get 4 shots in.
The shots would be around 2 kg and with this kind of kinetic energy at long range it would be able to cause damage to a ship especially if you manage to have multiple ships and have faster ships.
While also at close range being able to switch to shoot canister shots.
Overall this would HEAVILY outmatch any other form of ship mounted atillery which is far from irrelevant.

>>1018498
I remain unconvinced that a swivel gun can hit, let alone penetrate through the hull of a good ship at that range reliably.
Even if that were the case, there is also the issue of how many guns and how much gunpowder do you actually need to make a difference if you use it for long ranges and is it even economically viable to use for anything except as a defensive weapon?

I guess what I'm trying to say is that even if the technology is there, that doesn't necessarily mean that the demand is there, which really is the biggest issue here at the moment.

Price of human life is cheap in China after all and when land war is the primary threat in the foreseeable future, investing in naval weapons doesn't make much sense.

>>1018498
That is not to say that during our character's lifetime swivelguns wouldn't necessarily see action.

Rapidly deployable portable defensive siege weapon definately would have a demand, even if producing and firing it was more expensive than the more conventional siege weapons simply because you put firepower where it's needed, when it's needed, provided it's power is at least equivalent to a roman scorpio.

>>1018553
I think the main strengh that represent lower weight and range would not only make it an amazing weapon but shape our naval strategy.
Having a ship with a siege weapon that weight pretty much nothing mean we can actually invest in making fast ships meaning it doesn't matter if if the weapon need to fire 30 shots on target before taking down an enemy ship since it can afford to stay in it's comfortable range against other siege weapons ships.
Also it would for sure not replace old ships tactics entirely which is mainly getting into melee range and either completly obliterating your ships either with infantry weaponry or just greek fire.
But i think adding weapons which can hit albeit not reliably at higher range than everything else is important. Accuracy also is not a huge problem since breach reload mean we can shoot often and correct shots, this would however mean that it would be a costly weapon to use.

Overall your concern are well placed regarding power but not that horrible when you realize you can simply fire at a much higher rate than most weapons and higher range whilst not putting a huge weight onto the ship.
I don't think it would replace all kinds of ship within our army or find it's way onto every ship but it would easily become a widespread component of our navy.

Concerning other naval weapon we should work on flamethrowers too because the addition of gunpowder and the simple fact that at this current era they are pretty advanced in the Song dynasty would mean we could create pretty good equipement at long and close range for the navy.

>>1018583
I just don't see it happening really.
Without massive stockpiles of gunpowder as well as a multiple docks capable of resupplying them with it, the idea of arming a navy with swivel guns seems far fetched.

Not only that, 30 shots won't take down a single ship. Not with swivel guns anyhow. Fire 300-1000 shots and you might be getting somewhere and that's really expensive when usage of gunpowder isn't widespread.

Also, there's the cost involved.
Not only do you need a workshop capable of casting such large pieces of metal, the actual metal cost for each individual gun is quite significant if we're going to 4 pounder range since we're talking about quite heavy chunks of metal and let's face it, we definately wouldn't be starting on that end if we started making Swivel guns.

As to the rate of fire, well, we've managed to make a breechloading mechanism work on a handgonne, that doesn't mean that the same mechanism will work with heavier powder loads.

Absolutely loving this discussion. Will definitely be having as much of it being used as possible.

Luckily we are an educated genius. AND have support from a highly competent dynasty.

So being centuries ahead of the historical gun designs will be totally possible. And yes, we will be able to make guns that don't exist in the same way in real life. If we research for it and have the rolls.

----
Our two main designs are both handgonnes.

One is a breach loader with our most updated designs, and one is a standard muzzle loader that has a bit less reliability and power.

---
You know the drill for voting on actions.

Vote :)

>>1019397
>Improve workshop
>improve upon the ammunition

>teach themselves
>teach themselves

>>1019397
>>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model
Reliability
>>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model
Durability//not sure if I can count that as an aspect. Trying to fined a way to make it to were it will be less likely to break in the field. Wasnt sure if that would be reliability or something else.

>>menials
Design something
Design something

>>1019419
Supporting

>>1019397
>Improve workshop
>improve upon the ammunition

>teach themselves
>teach themselves

We want to be able to produce a fair few of these guns and to have them be effective. This is the quickest way really.

As ammunition improvements will work for any gun, even those not made by us whilst workshop refinement means better everything; prototypes, parts and production models.

>>1019446
>>1019445
>>1019421
Maybe after improving the workshop we could start hiring more menials as apprentice for our Educated menials to teach thus doubling our workforce.
We also should start forming a hierachy within our workshop and define Teams of manufacturing.
This of course is just an idea and maybe could use some refining.

>>1019397
>Improve workshop
>Improve ammunition

>teach themselves
>teach themselves

Also will there be more character interaction?

>>1019468
I was thinking we should hire some... younger workers. Their smaller (more precise) hands, greater energy, ability to learn, creativity and other such benefits would make them very useful.

Though I would argue these workers would require a educated, to the degree of our current workers if not better, overseer to manage them.

>>1019468
Great idea. We should also find warriors to test our designs on the field. We want designs so good that only twenty good men could slaughter an army armed with them.

>>1019468
I was honestly thinking we needed to work on the gun itself and make it more reliable for the average soldier to use with out much issue, hence having the menials also design some sine they are now at the stage to be able to improve certain designs, then we can improve the workshop size and our labor

>>1019496
i agree that having a useful gun is great but, actually producing it is a concern too.
Also expending our workforce mean we invest more in future design than in current ones by focusing on increasing workforce overall productivity instead of cashing out now.
Also they're barely able to design right now and we might want them to be Average at least before having them design before they make terrible mistakes.
>>1019491
>>1019483
So let's plan this out
>hire 12 young mens (blacksmith apprentice ect...)
>Have them work under the supervision of our current menials and be thaught by them
>Hire a few veteran/soldier/guards/peasants to test the guns as a way of testing ease of use and teaching people how to use the prototype even while it's being designed for maximum training
Any other idea?
I thought that maybe later on when we reach higher Quantities of menials we could split them up into design teams and work on different projects maybe.

When you guys have completed discussion we will need to clarify our personal actions. The menials look to be set at teaching themselves

>>1019542
It seems like we want to hire more workers / a weapons tester or two and improve the workshop.

>>1019542
well so far we've got 4 votes to work on ammo and the workshop.
Am i missing something regarding the votes?

>>1019528
>Any other idea?
Better materials. Our current materials for the gun itself are prone to rust and our current formula for the gunpowder are prone to causing it to rust.

Hiring more workers and some human hamsters.
Improving upon our ammunition.

Double Workers Improving themselves


Roll

Rolled 96, 49, 1, 65 = 211 (4d100)

>>1019589

Oh yes I think we are approaching the end of our second month of our three month deadline.

Rolled 25, 5, 75, 67 = 172 (4d100)

>>1019589
Love me dice gods

Rolled 65, 36, 80, 20 = 201 (4d100)

>>1019589

>>1019604
we should have a good amount of actual working hand cannons ready for then right?
Well i propose we use our last 2 weeks on production, workshop improvement and material/ammunition improvement.
Maybe we should use our our two turn left before then actually improving the gun itself HEAVILY.

>>1019625
I think we should focus on reload time, reliability and range.

Seeing as accuracy can be made up for with rank fire and recoil is a rather pointless concern considering the troops won't exactly complain, if they survive.

>>1019625
I am game for that.
Can we actually kill a pig reliably now? It was never clearly stated, just that we caused varying dents in pieces of would.

>>1019637
Rifling improved damage so I guess we could.

>>1019637
We need quite a bit more Power I believe.
>>1019635
we should work on muzzle velocity/power a bit more too.
>>1019646
>rifling
>without casting
>in 1161
slow down there m8

>>1019655
Sorry I'm not /k/ savvy.

>>1019625
The deadline is to create a working prototype that the army can use. Having a stock of them isn't required but will be a bonus. It will also help our nation's war effort what with having a group of soldiers provided with weapons asap.

>>1019637
We can hurt pigs but not kill them unless point blank.

---
96,49,80,67.

It's great having genius and educated, since without genius we wouldn't be using the best rolls, and educated makes teaching/menials training much better among other things.

>>1019671
neither :)
--

Writing

>>1019655
Rifling is possible in theory(essentially we need a mounted hand-drill to bore into a block of metal for the barrel, largely unlikely to develop without viewing it's existence.) but would be entirely unfeasible for anything but the very richest nobility or as a novelty.

>>1019655
>>rifling
>>without casting
If you are referring to the cartridge that houses a modern day bullet. There were paper variants that were used as early as 1590. Napoleonic troops used them for there rifles also.

>>1019671
neither am I but like rifling would require some form of casting or really talented Smiths and for a canon ball shaped ammo it wouldn't be that useful to make the projectile spin to gain stability since it's round.
Overall we lack the tech to do so in metalurgy.
Also just keep wikipedia open it's a handy tool and will probably make you an expert in canons in about 3 hours of posting and reading as you post.
You inputs are still welcome at any time.
>>1019683
Hand-drills would be very complicated
>>1019686
There's where that discussion was supposed to end at to make us progress.

>>1019694
Was just pointing them out. Also rifling and this is kinda pointless due to our (current) level of technology. Due to the cost that was pointed out by >>1019683

>>1019694
They would be very complicated, that is why I said they weren't practical. Except as one-off luxuries for the ultra-rich noble hunter or such.

>>1019713
>>1019708
>>1019694
>>1019686
>>1019683
Good to know.
How about we try to develop something like assembly lines?

>>1019755
>assembly lines
>without casting
>without actual lines
>without any form of non manual labor
>without interchangable parts within a reasonable margin of error
Seems a bit early.
We should hire more people instead, seems safer and more certain to yield direct result in productivity.

>>1019755
That would be the logical conclusion of our current management organisation but I think we have higher priorities.


So obviously we are trying to get the damn gun to stop being a metal pipe and to actually be something that could be a musket or such.


So obviously, creating a brace / stock would not only help with recoil but with accuracy. Thanks to the ability to aim it more precisely and fire from the shoulder.

>>1019771
Regarding addition to ease Recoil and increasing utility we should work on puting them on wheels or turrets that can swivels or at least move a bit whilst maintaining a static position.
Shouldn't be too hard but we should remenber to set that as a goal in a not so far future.

>>1019786
That would be completely pointless in their current state. Though I know what you are trying to develop.


Cannons, of any kind, can come later.

>>1019771
>So obviously, creating a brace / stock would not only help with recoil but with accuracy
Well duh. I might not be /k/ savvy but even I thought that was the next logical progression.
>>1019767
I said like assembly lines. I know true assembly are impossible with our current tech but I wonder if we can get something like it.

Guys, why do we need more people when we haven't even gotten our first comission yet?
We can't exactly conjure funding out of thin air.

We're still in developement phase.
We can worry about the mass production AFTER we've got a weapon that can reliably kill and scare cavalry.

>>1019801
>I said like assembly lines. I know true assembly are impossible with our current tech but I wonder if we can get something like it.
Oh you meant specialized worker?
Well that would probably help with specific part design but realistically it's much too soon since the design is changing rapidly and knowledge of the overall design is stil needed quite a lot and i expect to have our design team be our production teams at the same time meaning they need to have extensive knwoledge of the design which defeat the purpose of specialized labor that only work on one task which is mainly to bring apprenticeship prices down.
>>1019811
We're hire more people to push a first batch out early to get funding because we make our presence known on the battlefield thus getting funding from some Generals as well as nobles.

>>1019811
We started this quest with a commission; read the OP post for god sake!

>>1019811
>kill cavalry
Also we don't need to kill cavalry as much as we need to make them fall off their horse and stampede their own mens and generaly be left in chaos.

>>1019755
anons have done distribution of labour, our menials do their assigned parts, without working on the entire gun making process.

With one month remaining to my deadline, I anticipated the need for more workers to produce as many copies as possible once the prototype was completed.
So I used my fairly small budget to go out and hire more people.
I wasn't expecting to be impressed, but I was. Twelve young men, several of whom were up and coming blacksmith apprentices, others were artisan apprentices and one was even a petty nobility's son just finished university. Good quality workers with eyes for details and skilled hands.

I also realized that I would need some people to test fire my inventions for ease of use and how to use them, so that when a soldier grade weapon was produced there would already be a few people with training.

I succeeded greatly. Half a dozen older men, 3 of whom were veterans from the frontline who had fought and killed Jin dynasty soldiers. The other three were ordinary men who were quite disposable. If I had any worries about the dangers of a design I would use them for test firing of it.

Gained 12 skilled young workers. Gained 3 veterans and 3 peasants for test use.

With that great increase of labour force, it was now time to improve upon the ammunition I would use in my designs, and potentially provide to other manufacturers.

Alas I was unable to make nearly as much progress as I would have liked to. I was able to start experimenting with paper cartridges, which once I figure out a working method, will make it much easier for the troops to use. All they would need to do would have a box of cartridges already filled with gunpowder, then put it in the gun with the bullet. Well, that is how I hope it works.

49/200 till ammunition to level 3, will also improve ease of use and reload speed

I was relieved to note, however, that another week of my menials improving themselves was highly effective. My new additions to the work force also fit in nicely, and were extremely happy to be on the cutting edge of technology. The veterans especially were delighted to see a new ranged weapon being developed.

I don't suppose I can really call them menials anymore. I will refer to them as workers. I can take their designs and other ideas seriously now.

(Menials now Average. To be Above average, they are 12/350 points left)

---
The Administrator visits at the end of this second month.

"...Very impress with what is going on here. I am deeply looking forward to seeing the product of commission. Glad to see you have some veterans working for you. Their input will be important...."


>>1019818
>>1019811
We have a commission. Our deadline is to see if we get it continued, how much our reward will be. If we succeed at the Administrator's demand, we will have a lot more freedom and influence in the gunsmith area.
That and Song Dynasty's survival depends on us.

One month remaining.

Personal actions (2):
>vote
Workers (3 now due to the increase in workers and the higher skill):
>vote

>>1019865
>improve upon the ammunition
>improve upon an aspect of the Qua model
>Range

>design something
Range
>design something
Power
>design something
Reliability

>>1019865
>Reliability
>Reload time

>Range
>Power
>Accuracy
>>1019876
We should focus on ammo in the last two weeks when we have to produce the guns.

>>1019865
>improve ammunition
>improve range

>design something
>design something
>make parts for guns

>>1019898
realistically 2 rolls are unsure to reach 75 each.
So i'd rather get it out of the way sooner and then work on the workshop.

>>1019865
Wait now that I think of it could we make a few for our gun for the vets to test and review.
>>1019905
If you insist.

>>1019920
getting above 75 two time on a 3d100 isn't nothing short of uncertain and i'm not willing to sacrifice an upgrade that could GREATLY improve reload times and ease of transport for some minmaxing at high risks.
I'd feel much safer with one roll less on reload times and one roll more on a workshop but at least safely getting that Ammunition upgrade.

>>1019865
Attempt to improve upon recoil, reliability, muzzle velocity as well as reliability at the same time by making the muzzle diameter smaller, thus using a lighter projectile.

>>1019920
yes. Generally we end up making at least one for making sure our new design changes actually works in practice. Due to our distribution of labour there are guns made - most people make parts, but there are a few workers trained in putting it all together. Those guys can't make any of the parts of course though.

I just realized that the reason why our gun might be just leaving dents on the wall while having huge muzzle velocity is because we might be just using a fuckhuge projectile.

>>1019951
Or it could be poorly shaped.

>>1019951
I think the main problem might just be our breach loading mechanism's seal.
But a smaller projectile or simply bigger charge could solve the power problem anyhow and it cost very few ressources to build a smaller prototype while it actually working could easily bring both more power and most cost efficiency.
I think we should focus on sealing the breach mechanism first to see what happens and if that fail resort to making the canon more thin.

Is anyone opposed of the idea of trying to rush towards getting pistols as soon as possible?
There's really no form of anti-cavalry sidearm in the market at this time + if you stick it on cavalry, it'll be pretty effective against all targets.

>>1019980
pre-rifling and casting pistols are retarded, we should try to rush for canons and then transition to Muskets and THEN to rifles.
Remind yourself that we aren't using smokeless firearms making most handguns pretty much weak and overall wildly inaccurate in a battlefield scenario.
Frankly Muskets are the only infantry weapon we should rush and that can wait a bit since right now we're just struggling to push our OUR FIRST WEAPON into production, ambition is good but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

File: lead shot.jpg (45 KB, 414x294)

45 KB JPG

>>1019975
Well, just hear me out on this one.
Imagine if you'd have say, 25% or 50% wider diameter on the muzzle on something like this.

While you're correct, the breech loading mechanism will create leakage, but at the same time it's not unreasonable to believe that if their starting point for ammunition was something like lead shot made for a sling, the bullet would be oversized, recoil huge and the damage lacking.

As usual I will ask for a consolidation of votes.

>>1019900
>>1019876
>>1020014
i suppose we could drop the double range improvement into a single range, switch power to muzzle velocity/breach sealing and move on.

Okay. Personal

Ammunition and range.

Workers: Improve muzzle velocity
Accuracy
Reliability.

---
Roll

>>1020003
I know we are using smokeless powder, but it would still be a functional and practical design, if it packs punch equivalent to a crossbow, seeing that it's a secondary weapon, not a primary one.
Certainly a lot better than a handgonne.
Skipping a potential source of funding and ability to spread product awareness seems quite stupid.

If we can get some people interested in having a firearm built specifically for cavalry use, that opens up a comission for carbines.

Rolled 2, 96, 57, 31, 74 = 260 (5d100)

>>1020057

Rolled 94, 17, 95, 26, 27 = 259 (5d100)

>>1020057

Rolled 12, 44, 42, 25, 5 = 128 (5d100)

>>1020057

94, 96,95,31,74

writing after getting some lunch.

>>1020063
>aren't*

With only four more weeks remaining I desperately needed to get the flaws removed, and make the important aspects of the handgun up to scratch.

I feverishly worked upon paper cartridges and I made much progress, more than I thought I would be able to. I haven't quite got it right, but the cartridges are working. All that is needed is to get the right amount of gunpowder, pack it into the chamber tightly enough, and figure out how to adjust the lead shot shape to be propelled properly.

143/200 till level 3 ammunition and ease and reload improves too

I decided I needed to work on range also, for what good is a weapon that is not able to be effective at a reasonable range? I adjusted the shape of inside of the barrel to be smoother, but also have this thing called rifling. At the moment I can only have a few, but it seems to get the lead shot to spin a little, making it go further.

96/250 level 5 range. Shot can reach about 10 meters, though only embeds in wood at 2.5 meters

With the workers having spent last month almost exclusively on bringing themselves up to competence, I now considered it worthwhile for them to make designs. The focus would be on muzzle velocity, accuracy and reliability.

The barrel and muzzle workers had success in making improved design and make of parts, though those working on the handholds and my experimental rifling design had difficulty with the other's changing.
The recent additions to the workforce were able to make sure everything was smelted and crafted to an improved quality.

Still, we have a lot more to do before I can relax.

Muzzle velocity is now 160m/s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muzzle_velocity as opposed to it's prior 120 m/s or less.
Accuracy is slightly improved with a basic stock handles added. Reliability is improved and the guns can take a bit more damage due to having stronger parts.

----

Also I think that when we decide on what to improve each turn, we will have a decision on how we do that. That way my writing can include realistic descriptions and the changes can be easier to understand.

The level system will be rebalanced and adjusted once we have completed the first request.

---
Vote. 2 personal. 3 worker.

>>1020370
Improve Ammunition and Range

Improve reliability, accuracy and reload time

>>1020348
That muzzle velocity would easily be able to kill a pig from across a room
>>1020370
>improve an aspect
Reliability and ammunition
>workers
Design something
Teach themselves
Teach thenselves

>>1020497
oh okay. :D looks like damage is sorted then.

>>1020348
>>1020427
second

Improve Ammunition and Range

Improve reliability, accuracy and reload time

Roll then after we know how well we did we will work out what we are doing to improve the gonne.

Rolled 7, 5, 17, 88 = 117 (4d100)

>>1020542

Rolled 82, 50, 28, 88, 29 = 277 (5d100)

>>1020542

82, 50, 28, 88, 88

After we end the third month our workers won't get the best of the rolls they will get the averages, just making it easier for us to keep our commission.

Okay.

Plan what we are going to work on with our rolls. Will be fairly chilled out, so take your time.

I just realized why don't we try making a double barrel gun?

>>1020986
because that would mean we would need to also take into account heating from the other barrel, and loading and stuff. We can do double barrel gun but much much later.

>>1020718
Well, we still need more muzzle velocity, but the 160m/s should be well within lethal range.
If we can fit it into a compact package, give it a solid firing mechanism, then we might be looking at a sidearm that while horribly inaccurate and not very lethal in long ranges, can still scare cavalry and peasant levies.

At this point, reload time isn't really an issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSxFY917UH8

Here's something that people might want to watch.

AY DUMB FUCKS.

WE CAN ONLY HURT A PIG RIGHT NOW AND THE SOMG ADMIN WANTS US TO BE ABLE TO KILL ONE BY THE DEADLINE.

1-5) Improve Power

>>1021380
You are being retarded. Reread the thread.

>>1021380
It should technically be able to kill one by now within the perimeters given, but the major issue still is that it is a close range tool for intimidation, rather than killing.

>>1021436
Well that means it needs range and muzzle volocity and range are practical connected at the hip.

walking doggo

>>1021380
Well things got slightly retconned due to science not being as compartmentalized in the aspects as I planned.

We can kill a pig if we hit it properly, which is a challenge since we don't have a proper stock and other things that modern guns have.

And we have no armour penetration yet. though that won't be desperately needed to have the admin be happy with us.

Gonna walk doggo then do an update.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_cartridge

With four weeks left, I finished off my paper cartridge invention. Its design has been explained last diary entry, and I knew it would be good, but not quite as good as it actually ended up being.
Reloading was much faster. Instead of having to pour gunpowder into the chamber, all I had to do was put in the paper cartridge. The model had been perfected and my veterans were very happy about the leap in ease of use and reload time, and in fact damage improved.

Research overkilled, Ammunition level 3, Reload level 5, muzzle velocity to 180m/s, Reliability level 5, Effective range increases to embed lead shot into wall from 8 meters. however armour penetration will still be lacking a lot.

Oh yes, and the workers did good work adjusting their parts design to fit my adjustments.



Ending for the evening. Thanks for playing :) Our designs are improving very quickly due to our decisions being quite simple in content really. Like putting gunpowder and lead shot into a paper cartridge isn't exactly the hardest concept.

Viva la Song

>>1022070
thanks for the quest. Hope you'll be back later

>>1012240
>Chi Long Qua
The best gunsmith the world has ever seen?

>>1022083
>invent breach loading paper cartridge in 1200 AD
>implying he could be anything else than th best gunsmith ever
Remenber he's not done yet!

>>1022082
I will be doing a few updoots tomorrow after work.

>>1022083
And the fucking Jin Dynasty may just be fucking dead you guys... THERE GOES THE FUCKING GUNS AGAIN...
Let's give the Jin a nice sexual release to the back of their inner skull...

>>1022088
We are only 2 centuries ahead in the paper cartridge department.

also I am very happy another CLQ disciple is here.

>>1022096
I'm so excited. Thanks for running man.

File: early breechloader.jpg (32 KB, 736x371)

32 KB JPG

To be fair a breech loading handgonne is not actually a very practical design if the barrel isn't very long and you gotta clean the barrel every couple of shots since effectively, you're just increasing production costs and adding more potential points of failure.
There's a reason why breech loading weapons weren't that common for a long while despite being somewhat available in europe ever since the dawn if firearms production.
Muzzle loaders are simply cheaper and more reliable.

People in the past were not as stupid as you think. There's a difference between inventing something and the design actually spreading. Unless you can convince them that the breech loading mechanism is worth the extra cost, then it's probably not going to be adopted for wider usage.

If you want a widespread design, it's got to be quick and easy to manufacture, reliable and do really well at the job it's supposed to do or it's got to be popular with the nobility, in which case you need it to be fun to use and powerful.

>>1022685
Basically. On a side note we have the rough outline for a revolver. Least I am pretty sure we do.