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/tg/ - Traditional Games

Olm Steed Edition

>What is this?
EXPEDITION - an ~1870s era, Jules Verne-inspired retro-futurist, underground blood storm hellscape.
It is a Skirmish wargame. Two players with their own expeditions, on a hexgrid map, fight each other for victory.
A campaign mode is planned, but is far from completion.

3 versions of the rules exist, TWO of which have been playtested:
>1e - proof of concept, recently updated with unit stats
>2e - lead by 2e anon, playtests started, unified document is in the works
>3e - Replaced 4e because it died. Spearheaded by 3e anon, needs more playtests, rules present in the doc

>What can I do?
Shitpost, meme, get comfy. Read over the docs to settle in.
Familiarize yourself with rules and plan some playtests.
Contribute if you have ideas. Give feedback on contributions if you don't.


> T.Q.
File: RULESv1.pdf (346 KB, PDF)
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>TL;DR Doc
>Main Lore Doc, including links to anon-written short stories and additional lore in "Recommended..." section
>1e Doc (No units list, unless 1e anon posts a new version)
Click the picture, but this PDF is almost certainly out of date! If this message gets copied again, I'm going to do something quite silly!
> Unit Spreadsheet - Currently outdated, requires an update
>Unit Design Doc
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> T.Q. because I forgot to put it in the OP after I copied some other stuff in there: Aside from Saurs and mundane animals like horses and mules, what are some strange beasts of burden or mounts that exist within the deep?
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>what are some strange beasts of burden or mounts that exist within the deep?
> Tartarodons are the primary heavy beast of burden where Saurs are not available.
> Atlantis uses tamed Quinotaurs for its heavier underwater logistics, when Olms are no longer sufficiently strong, and specially bred River Quinotaur for its ground campaign, giving it an unprecedented edge in logistics across certain regions of Agartha.
> While not a beast, there was very early mentions of Airships for Colonial powers underground, so perhaps there is a Fallen-Paris Airport from where you can send Expeditions into the more open areas of the Underground.
> Giant Ants and Crabs are a stable of the genre. Perhaps some of those are less humonguous than others and more "horse-size"?
> Death-Worm Riders?
We could use a few more. With the way Traveling is coming up in the Campaign system I'm making, you will really want to make sure your 1 Movement and probably even your 2 Movements dude all have a spot in some Vehicle otherwise you'll be going nowhere fast. Atlan in particular will need something to make sure they don't have to spend 4~5 game turns in the same Hex while everyone runs around them.
Should not forget
> Sky-Spiders are mostly used by Sky-People, but trading might occur.
> Beastles are very reliable but also a good way to attract the attention of every other Gorg wanting to start himself a Stinkjuice Brewery.
> Sky-Whales
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How do we feel about hippocampi?
I think olms already fill that niche.
One idea I've just had is that we could make all these "mounts" require a certain resource to keep operating, some relatively common thing found underground. And I really want to expand on that airship idea, I know Verne had a novel about those things at one point.
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Giant bats for flying.
Giant moles for digging.
Megatherii were suggested as Lemurian war beasts. Speaking of Lemuria, also deep camels.
Prehistoric rhinos like elasmotherii can work as beasts of burden and war.
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Olms seems better in that I can see them at least not being useless on land.
Perhaps as a tryhard meme choice mount for the younger generation of Kataphraktoi they have to dismount from on land.
>One idea I've just had is that we could make all these "mounts" require a certain resource to keep operating
Yeah, I want to try and write in some kind of maintenance cost to units but I don't want the math to get too involved either.
>And I really want to expand on that airship idea
Yes. We could also work in the Outlander Sky-Captain in.
Finally, what do Imaterii look like? Wasn't the compass pic just some giant virus?
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I didn't make them, but to me they look like crystals on legs. The name, I think, implies that they are spiritual beings who use those as artificial bodies. But I'm not gonna lie, organic eldritch abominations that look like giant viruses sounds very cool.
Could be a gorg mount, I don't think they have one yet.
I think they could work as primarily a naval warfare thing, for whenever we get around to including THAT side of the game.
why don't we have a wiki?
A day in the life of Forforfor, a minor Hyperborean noble.

The wheels of my chariot acellerate. The speed slaves houl as I crack my whip. The chariot races across fhe galactic bridge, toward Lady Idolas’ mansion. Disorienting tunes blare from the orchestra on a floating platform adjacent to the bridge. My ears bleed and I wail, my voice joining the orchestra and the little “choir” pulling my chariot.
I draw my pistol and shoot the orchestra slave playing the Hypertrombone. Gamma death rays scorch his brain and his screams join ours. He reminds me of a psychopomp! The pain in my ears subsides a bit. Better.
Wrote up a treatment of ideas for the campaign. It's rough but doable if we make a proper system for everything I think.

Campaign Treatment
- Should start simple, finding a mcguffin for the player’s faction in a long-forgotten temple, competing to explore a locked off area of the map first, carrying a mcguffin from one place to another, hunting a sky-whale, etc.
o More complex narrative plots/goals should come later, once the core is figured out. E.g sabotage of Fallen France mines, crossing the Atlan wall, etc.
- Only the most basic factions to start
o Britain, France, America, Atlantis, Lemuria, Mu
- Each player has their own objective. They can either choose to pursue it, or kill the other expeditions before they can achieve theirs. Some objectives are mutually exclusive, so they will have to fight other expeditions at one point or another.
- World map, regional to keep things simple, maybe start by making fallen paris as the centre of the underground, with embassies from each faction to justify their presence.
- Expedition compositions should not be much different from skirmish ones, other than perhaps no big hero units, with some exceptions. E.g Lord Cunningham is fine, but the Mu Emperor or Napoleon is not.
- Ability to resupply – At villages, trading posts, military bases, both expedition members and equipment. More esoteric factions like Lemuria and Mu may resupply with magic instead of money.
o Trading system with minor factions like the gorgs – Gather stink juice in exchange for artifacts, or give them guns for stink juice (It’s healing properties are quite remarkable)
- Transport systems – Instead of trekking it on foot, players can use railway lines, road, and riverways to move around. They’ll be more vulnerable, but faster. Transport doesn’t tend to head to the darker areas of Agartha however.
- Different temples and other locations dotted across the map with loot and minibosses within them – Optional side objectives for the player.
Not enough content I reckon. The docs hold pretty much everything other than some images like those custom cards which are in the archive. We should throw it on 1d4chan once things become more feature complete though.

Very nice, but don't you think the Hyperborean should increase the PAIN instead of lessening it?
I think it makes more sense for upper class Hyperboreans to be sadistic rather than masochistic.
Hey buddy, I think you got the wrong emanation. The making sense faction is two layers down.
Pretty sure we mentioned terracotta horses for the Heavenly Kingdom at some point,but tbf, the normal terracotta warriors could fit that bill as well.
So this is a game where I can adventure collect jules verne style monsters and human mutants, add them to my crew and fight another crew?!
And it make sense in lore to have a mixed group, since you go down you meet different bubbles of civilizations.

I want an in
Multi-legged long fat blue lizzards. Like a dnd Basilisc. It combines the idea of a larvae and a snake

Giant dachshund. Armored giant dachshunds.

Grubs/Larvae/Caterpillar. Sometimes during your fight/travel the Grub will decide to enter the metamorphosis. Sometimes it happen when the grub is wounded. The metamorphosis is very fast. And a deadly slim killer machine emerges. Killing anything in it's vicinity.
I can't access the document right now.
Do we have an abstract that introduces the factions?
Welcome to the thread anon

To copypaste from a previous thread and add some of my own descriptions:

Main Factions
Victorian Britain. 'Advanced' tech from agarthan colonies.
>Fallen France
Bit of a mess, france collapsed into the underground, the eiffel tower is an enormous elevator they share with the brits, napoleon is still alive and married to the inner sun and up to something mysterious
>America + The PACT
USA. Confederates, USA, and abolitionists are all subfactions.
>Japan + Satsuma
IDK much here.
>The Ottomans
Think 30k tomb kings, in short. They all became 'husked' and live in a necropolis
>Volcano Italians
The italians live in a proto-fascist Orwellian state where the elites worship entities that live in volcanoes and sacrifice their citizens to them in order to open an entrance to agartha. the citizens think the gvovernment is just executing rebels and traitors.
Mercss. Bunch of random shit
Atlantis and Atlan are sort of like two countries that claim to be the real atlantis. I don't know much about these but the Atlans have a big titanium armoured king and a cute princess.
Eldritch shit behind a facade of underground 'normalness'. 'Old' and 'new' mu respectively. Think a nation of scientologists if Xenu was real and ean eldritch horror.
Proto-Indo-european/vedic khanate sort of stuff,
Napoleon's schizo shadow faction

Minor Factions
>Taiping Heavenly Kingdom
Yeah, they won

Lore-only Factions
>Holy League
Spain, portugal. vatican

You wanna read the doc for actual info and the good stuff
Looking to put some shape into the fluff for an eventual 2e World book. I pulled from the notes the dates and event mentioned in order to make a timeline. Here's what I got.

15XX : Arne Saknussemm leads an expedition and discovers Agartha, but all members are either loss or return insane and their account are discounted.
1799 : The French acquires the Rosetta Stone. Napoleon subsequently deciphers it and learns of the existence of Agartha.
1815 : Battle of Waterloo. Napoleon escapes and seeks refuge in Agartha.
1848 : Sicilian Revolution. The Carbonari, An ancient family with mysterious ties to the Janarae Cults enters an alliance with the southern Italian radicals and Freemasons and eventually takes its leadership.
1849 : King Ferdinand II is sacrificed to the Etna volcano. Establishment of the Duosicilian Republic (1st Abomination War).
1850 : Franz Joseph dies under suspicious circumstances, Maximilian takes the Austro-Hungarian throne.
1851 : Pope declares a Crusade against the Duosicilian Republic. France and Sardines pledge their full support. (2nd Abomination War)
185X : Crusader defeat in Rome. Vatican is evacuated. The sacrifice of most Swiss Guards and Cardinal Clement to evacuate the relics and other Cardinals ignites the faith of Catholics around the world. Papcy is reestablished in Avignon, while many refugees go to Spain and Portugal.
185x: Following the defeat of his camp in the Sicilian Crusade, Prince-President Charles L.N.B. steps down and abandon politics.
185x : Second Restoration of the Bourbon monarchy in France.
1850X : Duosicilian sympathisants in Tuscany overthrown the government (3rd Abomination War). The Franco-Sardinian alliance is once again defeated. Behind the scenes, France and the Republic enters a peace agreement.
1854: Austrians align with the Ottomans. British begin Crimean campaign.
1855 : The Allies are stopped at the Chernaya River, and barely stop the Russians themselves over the Danube.
1856 : Crimean war ends in Allied humiliation. Russian secures the independence of the Danubian Principalities and Serbia, as well as assurances on Bulgarian autonomy.
1857 : The Sepoy Rebellion. Lemuria moves to support India which leads to a British defeat. Emperor Bahadur Shah II establishes the Neo-Mughal Empire.
1860 : The Duosicilians sacrifice thousands of dissidents, aristocrats and political prisoners to the Volcano Spirits. The Stromboli Entrance is revealed.
1862 : Fall of Paris
186x : Socialists takes Marseille and establish the Marseille Commune.
186x : At France’s government request (what is left of it), the Britsh send Marshal MacMahon to restore order, which he manages after an exceptionally brutal campaign. France’s Capital is relocated to Orleans.
186X : Malcolmite resurgence
186X : Contact is established with Fallen-Paris, which inspires revolts against the Bourbon regime on the Surface. End of the Second Restoration, beginning of the Third Republic.
186X : Prussia and Italy declare war against Austria. (4th Abomination War). However a number of social and political issues begin plaguing the Italians, which prevents the war from escalating too quickly.
186X : Unsure of its military after the Crimean disaster, Maximilian I seeks a political compromise which the Italian leadership is only too eager to accept. Austria will pay the Italians a hefty price for access to the Stromboli entrance in exchange for Venetia and Trentino. On the other hand, Italy will renounce any further claims to the Austria territoty, and reform itself into a Monarchy. After a short but bloody civil war, Francesco Crispi becomes first Tyrant Francesco I. The Pope excommunicate Maximilian I. Creation of the Imperial Church. Increase in anti-Habsburg nationalism in the general austrian population.
1870 : French Campaign in Tonkin vs Lemuria
1871 : Conflict erupt in Bulgaria over violation of its autonomy by the Ottomans. The Tsardom declares war on the Ottomans and Turkey and swiftly breaks both. Belligerents meet in Fallen Paris
A few months later, Murad V makes a coup and becomes Sultan.
1872 : Italian Invasion of Ethiopia over a newly discovered entrance. Holy League and Tsardom both move to counter this and crush Italy, bringing an end to the string of Volcanist victories.
1872-73 : The Necropolis Event. Desperate to return his new Empire to its former glory, Murad V descends into Agartha and return with an army of undead.

We need to fit in Verne and his expedition, as well as the bulletship disaster, is there a date for it mentioned somewhere?
Should work on one soon. >>90345163 is good but let me see.
> Britain
Top dog of the setting besides Russia (excuse me, the Tsardom) in lore, Britain remains one of the more "sane" countries of the planet. France's issues in this timeline meant the Brits lost a huge adversary in the Great Game early on, and managed to capitalize on it. As such, they switched to a "soft-hand" approach to colonialism on the surface quicker, which has lead to Brits and various Colonial Auxiliaries to integrate well together. They have multiple and very reliable Entrances to Agartha, and as such have colonies further than anyone (however these colonies are much less well supplied than the French, for example). They seem very belligerent toward Deepfolks, for some reason, and a war with Atlantis isn't out of the question.
> France : Was already having a rough time dealing with the Italian Pagans before Paris fell in 1862, which lead to the near complete collapse of French society. The Brits had to get involved. Since contact was reestablished, the country has been increasingly focus on Agarthan affairs, and they have built extensive infrastructure to colonize the 3rd Layer. Paris itself has integrated a large number of Amazons and Deepfolks, mainly because brown girls in french dresses is an argument that justifies itself.
> USA + The PACT : Possibly the most sane country of the setting, the USA's first exposure to Agartha was the horrors of Hyperborea during the Paraguyan War. As such they take a very defensive approach to the Underground. Post-Confederates and Abolitionists are subfactions, and both have had to move underground for various (but also obvious reasons).
> Japan - Satsuma
Not defined yet. Dinosaur riding Samurais and regiments of underclothed japanese qts were mentioned.
> Ottomans
Undead faction, forced in this state to avoid the destruction of their Empire. Endless hordes of undead that constantly are resurrected by necromancers. Not much else.
> Italy
Got a huge boost in power level by sacrificing royals to volcano spirits. Kicked the Papacy out of Rome and then started trolling Europe as a whole through volcanic warfare. After a string of victories they finally just got wrecked in Ethiopia by Spain, Portugal and the Tsardom.
> Mercs are random stuff, including the Lost Men of King Malcolm as a subfaction.
> Atlantis is more or less the "good guys" of the underground factions. A democratic nation with Greco-Roman-Persian aesthetic that has somewhat advanced technologically since its Sinking, it is pretty much the primary Naval power right now, thus causing much concern to the Brits. Lots of Greek Firethrowers.
> Atlan is a former colony of Atlantis that somehow Sunk one Layer beneath it, and thus changed quite a bit before contact was reestablished. Additionally, Atlantis didn't handle well the first contact and asked for complete submission. Atlan, being a military colony had since shifted into a total military dictatorship obsessed with warfare, conquest and its autonomy. They have ever since been at war. Atlan is a nightmare kingdom where most are cattle slaves, and the aristocrats are for the most part sadistic warmasters. Sickness or overt weakness is illegal. As in, doctors will execute you on the spot for sneezing in public, or for losing a limb. They have a huge focus on very heavy armour, having a near monopoly on Titanium. Perhaps it doesn't excuse all their atrocities, but Atlan is at least partly that way because they are they only ones with clear records of what Hyperborea is.
> Mu refers simultaneously to a whole bunch of relatively developed city-states across the upper layers (think Mayan or Aztek level at most), to a bunch of roving hordes of Deepfolks in the Lower Layers, and the eldritch abominations hidden in the lowest Layers to which both owe fealty. New Mu (city-states) is mostly humans with lots of Saurs...
Don't forget about them discovering computers a century early and ""tanks"" 50 years early
> ... while Old Mu (both the others) are devolved humans, Morlocks (fishmen), mind-controlling Saurs and eldritch horrors ruling over all. Note that despite being eldritch horrors this doesn't mean they are completely alien, their concerns are mostly what we would expect of royalty, and they are able to interact with us. And while Mu is seen as horrible from without, it doesn't look that horrible from the inside. For most part humans in it are left alone if they pay their tithes and send their deceased to the lower levels without asking why.
> Lemuria (not to be confused with Lemurs, who are monsters, and Lemurians are humans) is a proto-indo-aryan-vedic mishmash of cultures who moved into Agartha thousands of years ago and conquered everyone until they settled in Lemuria after beating the shit out of its previous owners. They have since spread and are now linked more by a share adherence to a common religion/philosophy, called Inner Sun Chi Cultivation, which teaches them how to become the most swole warrior or the biggest brainy nerd. The ability to Prophesize is incredibly important to Lemurians. A "wimp" can become the ruler of a thousand musclemen that would otherwise rip his spine off because he has shown that he can go "just as planned" well enough. You just don't fuck with Fate. Lots of Chariot riders.
> La Ombre* is not really a faction, but kinda? At least its significant enough to have the status of a faction. Napoleon fled his second exile into Agartha, and has since acquired immense mystical powers. Boogeyman of the setting to its inhabitants, we however know it is possible that he'll be its saviour. Maybe. Currently stuck in the 9th Layer, deepest we have knowledge on, where he found a replica of St. Helena, and has been sitting on it for a while now. The faction gimmick is that you can recruit one type of units (not leaders) from every other Faction book as well as his to make an Expedition.
>*The typo is intentional.
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> Hyperborea refers to the entirety of what is above the Celestial Vault. We understand it as a "psychic sea or swamp" but to the Hyperborean call it home and may see it quite differently. Alien civilizations, tripod invaders and retrofuturistic hyperwarriors on a background of hypersaturated rainbow colours, which are psychic Emanations of the various fear they feed on and master. There is no negotiating with Hyperborea, what they want is to skin you alive for the next few thousand years or until you morph into an alien being yourself, because that's a meal to them. Warfare or torture (physical, mental and metaphysical) are the only two kinds of interactions that makes sense for Hyperboreans to have with anything from the lower levels. Except for Ur-Ca, the one exception, who is a good boy and will never ever do anything to harm a human being, except maybe scare them a bit, because a 12 ton flying orca with legs bringing you a whale's torn genitals out at random, as a cat brings you a dead bird, that can be a bit shocking at times. But otherwise he'd never ever harm you.
>A democratic nation with Greco-Roman-Persian aesthetic
Don't forget the Pharonic Rite!
>the Britsh send Marshal MacMahon to restore order
Kek, anon, MacMahon was an actual French Marshal. His family were descendants of the Irish nobility that escaped to France after the Glorious Revolution.
>We need to fit in Verne and his expedition, as well as the bulletship disaster, is there a date for it mentioned somewhere?
Do you mean the Lidenbrock expedition? Because it's supposed to have happened more or less by the book in 1863. Or some separate expedition by Not!Verne?
No, that;s exactly what I was looking for. Thank you!
>The Carbonari, An ancient family with mysterious ties to the Janarae Cults
Carbonari were a real secret society of Italian radicals, actually. Count of Trani is the guy linked to the cult, supposed to be a shady character of uknown origins and I assume he was made up by Tripbro.
Correct. Trani is the trait d'union behind all the various liberal italian agitators. Built to be a southern, eldritch counterpart to the better known Cavour. Heavily implied to be involved with La Ombre.
>Carbonari were a real secret society of Italian radicals
Absolute kek.
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It's true.
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> MFW I realize I've been wrong thinking the Italians all had meme names after nearly 6 months of working on this.
Don't look up who Francesco Crispi was and what he did in Ethiopia.
Bro you have no idea how in depth this shit is

>In 1842, Garibaldi took command of the Uruguayan fleet and raised an Italian Legion of soldiers—known as Redshirts—for the Uruguayan Civil War. This recruitment was possible as Montevideo had a large Italian population at the time: 4,205 out of a total population of 30,000 according to an 1843 census.
>Garibaldi aligned his forces with the Uruguayan Colorados led by Fructuoso Rivera and Joaquín Suárez, who were aligned with the Argentine Unitarian Party. This faction received some support from the French and British in their struggle against the forces of former Uruguayan president Manuel Oribe's Blancos, which was also aligned with Argentine Federales under the rule of Buenos Aires caudillo Juan Manuel de Rosas.
>The Italian Legion adopted a black flag that represented Italy in mourning, with a volcano at the center that symbolized the dormant power in their homeland.
>Black flag, with a volcano at the center
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Come on you are shitting me that's the one I was sure was an actual meme. That and
> *stops, wait... google Guglielmo Pepe.*
Oh for fuck's sake seriously?
This setting is a gift.
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Reality is stranger than fiction indeed.
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So, anyone got input for the X dates?
Sorry if they are written somewhere else, I couldn't find them.
> Migration of proto-indians/future Lemurians into Agartha in ancient times.
> Fall of Atlantis
> Contact between Atlan and Atlantis, beginning of the Eternal War.
> Contact between Atlantis is Greco-Roman ancient world. Migration waves in Agartha.
> Foundation of the Agarthan Society
> Foundation of PACT (obviously it comes after the Paraguay War but how long after? Also, who are the participants?)
> Hawaii's alliance with Mu.
> Titianium King's rise to power and reformation of Atlan's military.
> Foundation of the Pillar-City of Errum as the Capital of the Yazata Assembly of Sky-Clans.
> Foundation of Libertalia
Obviously we don't need a super precise answer in many of those cases but it would be nice to know more or less where to fit them in the timeline.
>Migration of proto-indians/future Lemurians into Agartha in ancient times.
Shouldn't it be the other way around? Lemurians interacting with proto-Indians and influencing their culture?
Not iirc, Lemurians came in from the 2nd Layer initially.
> Migration of proto-indians/future Lemurians into Agartha in ancient times.
> Fall of Atlantis
> Contact between Atlan and Atlantis, beginning of the Eternal War.
Real fucking long ago. I think we should clarify how the cycles work, are Lemuria (old one) and Atlantis supposed to be from the same Second Layer as the current one or not? Or is, for example, the current Fifth Layer THE Second Layer from when Atlantis was on the surface?
>Contact between Atlantis is Greco-Roman ancient world. Migration waves in Agartha.
The earliest would be the Bronze Age Crete (Perseus lore). We could tie the migration with the cataclysmic volcano eruptions of the Late Minoan period. So around 1600 BC? As for other major waves, likely one from the collapse of the Alexander's empire, one from the fall of Rome and one from the fall of Byzantium.
>Foundation of the Agarthan Society
Likely shortly after the first expedition? 1868?
>Foundation of PACT
Let's say 1871, immediate aftermath. The first members would be Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay, as well as Bolivia, since they'd also be hit by the Incident. Mexico would join later, also possibly Cuba after their independence war.
>Hawaii alliance with Mu
OTL Kamehameha V died from some health complications in 1872, a nice symbolic date.
>Titanium King's rise to power
Something that gives him enough time to reform and make some gains by the late 70s-early 80s, but recent enough. So early 60s, let's say 61.
>Foundation of the Pillar-City of Errum as the Capital of the Yazata Assembly of Sky-Clans.
After the Fall of Paris and the first expeditions and settlements. Supposed to be very recent, so late 60s-early 70s?
>Foundation of Libertalia
Some time after the establishment of the first British settlements on the Fifth Layer. Early-mid 70s?
These are not mutually exclusive. They could have migrated there, discovered the Old Lemurian culture and established their civilization and then proceded to influence India.
It's great to see an attempt to resurrect this genre.
Since we're on the topic of lore, I have to say, I'm not sure all of the Low Countries collapsing and Doggerland reemerging was a good idea. All that land, cities, industry, people etc. just disappearing overnight, various geographical implications etc. - it opens a whole can of worms that's just not worth dealing with. I think just Ile-de-France collapsing would be better. And I think we could easily adapt the relevant lore too.
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>The Carbonari,
Fnaly a game with that fucking horse thief.

Can we have at least 1 war started due to food disagreaments?
I think it kinda has to take a very long time for new layers to be formed. Like, the last time a new layer was formed was prior to the entire recorded history of the human race as understood by the 2nd layer currently. So, I think Atlantis and Atlan should be from the same second layer as the surface nations, but Old Lemuria/Mu could have been built when their layers where higher up.
Have you guys read the veins of the earth and skreples essays on different earth strata?

Should we add crazy strata like, vompressed vampires, or unicellular strata?
Never read, but heard good things about them
However, I think it would be too much and would detract from the whole Adventure Novel feel
For weird spooky horror stuff we already have hyperboreans and whatever sits in the deepest known layer
>all of the Low Countries collapsing and Doggerland reemerging
When did that get added, I was only gone for a month
How so? Other than the Franco-Prussian war I think we've bandaided the other historical incidences France was involved in. Plus, I think it'd make it easier for a starter campaign, just get the geography of northern France, say it's all underground, and add some caves and temples and it'll be good to go.

It was one of the early additions to the lore I think, when we were figuring out how the collapse actually worked. Someone even made a map I remember, which I didn't save.

Remember that the layers forming is something the Italians believe in, it doesn't necessarily have to be true. I'm partial to the idea that they've always been there, stranded in time and space, or that all layers are separated temporally as well as spatially, but the more schizo the lore gets the better.
It's not about the French history really, it's about a whole lot of other things. You have some major industrial, commercial and agricultural regions of Europe destroyed just like that. Everything made there? Gone. Everything imported by them? Suddenly has to go elsewhere. Every bank? No longer exists. Rhine? That major navigable river? Now flows into a wasteland dragged from the bottom of the sea. Etc., etc. Even assuming the sinking is more gentle than you'd expect due to Layer shenanigans, millions are likely dead, established logistics are permanently fucked and by the time of the rediscovery and reintegration a whole lot of damage to the world economy is already done. I don't know, it just seems far easier to limit it to Paris and environs.
We have a similar situation with the Necropolis event, which would fuck up all sorts of things in the Mediterranean and the Black Sea (say goodbye to all the traffic in the Tsardom's southern ports lol), but at least as a trade-off we get a faction of moustached undead Turks.
See, the idea of schizo lore for me has never been about
>make things wacky
But more about evoking the feel of

And thankfully history fully equips you to do that if you're willing to get a little bit silly. But this is also the reason I agree with >>90352153
: more "centering", more realism will make the game more, not less schizo.
True, I've never really thought about that. But on the flipside, how would we make Fallen France a major underground player if all they have is Paris? As I understand it, France is a major player only slightly below Britain in terms of importance (the colonies are all gone, but they have Agartha in exchange) but I don't know how feasible that is if it's just been Paris chugging along for 10 or 20 years and somehow managing to thrive.

Don't forget the original Liedenbrock-Bjelke expedition and subsequence seizure of Iceland.
Could be that the process of making a new layer does something to time itself, if it does happen. Like, It's almost like the new layer comes in pre-aged.
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>When did that get added, I was only gone for a month
Was there from pretty much the start, but Doggerland never got much attention beside "French and Brits fight over its entrances and its a hellhole". The Low-Countries sliding in with Paris was also there very early, but we've taken to almost always only refer to Paris itself.
I kinda agree that that's too much, and just having Paris itself fall should be enough. Plus making the timeline I realize my poor Patrie really is the setting's punching bag.
I think both Lemuria and Atlantis should solidly be in the camp of "former SurfaceFolk who moved in ancient times" and not in another cycle. Perhaps some believe in the later case, but it should be a fringe belief.
With this in mind, any objection to me putting Atlantis Sinking really far back like 4~5k BC and Lemurians migrating in ~1600-1000 BC (you have to have proto-indo-aryans first)?
Mu I think doesn't need to be specified and can be thought to be remnants of other Loops/Layer Formation/Whatever...
One of the things I would like to do is to streamline and update Hyperborea's lore. My concerns might be unfounded. But I fear that they might not be distinct and well defined enough from Chaos to avoid turning this into Warhammer: Schizo History edition. I don't want to change their fundamental underpinnings, nor the basics of the Gano-Ducksworth theory, but I feel like we could perhaps flesh them out a little bit to retain the weirdness while compounding it with some extra substance. I will post some drafts and as per usual we will discuss what to keep and what to remove.
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>Grubs/Larvae/Caterpillar. Sometimes during your fight/travel the Grub will decide to enter the metamorphosis.
Death Wyrm Grub?
Infantile stage of Death Wyrms, still very quick and able to be ridden, but them hatching into a Death Wyrm is the bane of its riders and whoever is around?
Mount for Gorgs and the ballsiest of Lemurians?
I think hyperborea should just be nonsense. From a human point of view, anyway. Contradictions everywhere, doing things for reasons we can;t comprehend but makes sense to them.
Now that I look at it there's not a lot about Hyperborea in either lore document. My question is: do we keep it as a (playable) faction nonetheless? Because if so, we do need some more meat on its bones, if nothing else because the main game is meant to be narrative-focused. Otherwise I think they're best relegated to NPCs like Germany.
Hm, I think I remember anons mentioning playable hyperborea as a tiny force of a few supersoldier-esque things. I think they should be playable but I don't think they need much specific lore other than descriptions of them keep them as ambiguous unfathomable psychadelic murdergoons. The no-questions 'bad guys' of the setting. For a narrative game it makes sense because it gives a reason for them to show up anywhere, the reason being irrelevant because 3-dimensional mortals wouldnt understand anyway.

Idk. Myabe see what other anons think.
>My question is: do we keep it as a (playable) faction nonetheless?
A couple threads ago people were talking about a rogue tripod unit that escaped the quarantine zone in South America. And I've seen a few people mention that the Time Displaced Contractor might be related to them somehow (not entirely sure what was that about)
So it seems like they're best limited to single-unit armies or maybe narrative play boss encounters.
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2e anon here.
>streamline and update Hyperborea's lore.
There's nothing much definitive now apart from a collection of ideas represented through other faction's lore. Its a collection of Moebius looking alien civilizations, weird godlike historical figures elevated for their insane cruelty and weird anachronistic soldiers.
>But I fear that they might not be distinct and well defined enough from Chaos to avoid turning this into Warhammer: Schizo History edition.
The comparison was always going to be unavoidable, and to be honest its not unwarranted. I mean, initially there was a sense that this was aping GW and the WHFB development. This got lost as we got more serious about it but there's always going to be scars of that.
>Now that I look at it there's not a lot about Hyperborea in either lore document.
This is intended, we wanted initially to have Hyperborea as a "gimmick" faction which works slightly differently from the rest, perhaps integrating the idea of Loop into the faction mechanic itself. Since this was before most mechanics were figured out it was way too early and we put it aside for the time being. It was always kinda going to be the last faction I got to.
>A couple threads ago people were talking about a rogue tripod unit that escaped the quarantine zone in South America.
That was a suggestion for a single-unit "Merc" army, yes, a worn down Tripod that had to take refuge in Agartha and got cut off from the rest of its force. Wasn't really anything about Hyperborea itself.
>Mu I think doesn't need to be specified
My headcanon (or real canon since what we say goes) is that old Mu is the source for all the pantheons from proto-history, the gods living in Olympus or Valhalla or wherever else. The deities that demanded ritual sacrifice and all that, and who visited Earth from time to time to fuck things up before returning to their home.
> how would we make Fallen France a major underground player if all they have is Paris?
By the virtue of them having a state of the art elevator that connects it right to their new capital on the Surface, for one. Brits, in the meantime, have to go through Iceland. And I'm fine with most of the Ile-de-France area falling as well. By the 1860s that's still like 2 million+ people thrown in Agartha, even WITH all the casualties.
> but I don't know how feasible that is if it's just been Paris chugging along for 10 or 20 years and somehow managing to thrive
That's no longer a thing, though. The Sinking was moved to 1862, they'd need to hold out for like 3-5 years before discovery, which I imagine would make it possible for them to get at least some support, and then the tower is built around 1870-ish.
>Lemurians migrating in ~1600-1000 BC (you have to have proto-indo-aryans first)
Not necessarily. You could have them be a very ancient group of PIE people from like 4-3k BC. The Surface Vedic peoples would be something like their long lost cousins/descendants to them and they would try to enlighten, leading to the cultural similarities.
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>a worn down Tripod
When I drew this I posited a couple other scenarios for why there would be a rogue tripod. Most notably:
>Battle damage caused it to go haywire
>It was particularly insane, even by Hyperborean standards, and just wandered off
>It deserted
>It has Ambitions that require it to distance itself from Hyperborean society
>It was abandoned during a disastrous battle and is just trying to survive
France currently has the most colonies in Agartha (4), all located in the 3rd Layer however.
We have to remember that the colonial timeframe for Agartha is <10 years. As in, the world as a whole has started colonizing it less than a decade ago. There aren't many colonies, and they are still for the most part getting set up and are probably barely livable on their own. The big exceptions are France and Italy, which has only Sicilia Terza, but its a breadbasket.
We should set up a colony timeline so as to make all this more obvious.

Colony Timeline
Brits :
> New Kirkwall (3rd)
> (need at least a colony further than the others)

France :
> Paris (3rd)
> Ys (3rd)
> Nieuwtrecht (3rd)
> Guyenne-Basse (3rd)

Tsardom :
> Kitezh (3rd)
> Vladiagartsk (4th)

Austro-Hungaria :
> Maximiliana (4th)

> Franklin (3rd)
> New Alamo (4th)

Italy :
> Sicilia Terza(4th )

All of this has to be fitted between after ~1865
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Ok, here's an attempt. Let's hear what anons think and reconvene before any further work is done on hyperborea.
I think Hyperborea's got enough units to be a proper faction, though they're definitely a niche one. Narrative wise we can write in some Hyperborean invasion because of the shit going on in China, late 1880s/90s Boxer Rebellion 8 nation alliance type thing to stop them.

Yeah, I like this. They're cosmically incomprehensible, not in any Lovecraftian way but because they're just that insane.

For brit colony:
>Fort Wellington
>5th Layer, the furthest any colonial has ventured
>Located next to River Alph
>Extremely difficult to reach, the journey is almost as perilous as the lands around the fort itself
>Rumoured to be where the brits test their latest gadgetry and weapons
>Suspected the only reason it hasn't fallen to Mu or Atlan or worse yet is liberal use of analytical computers to maintain defences
>By Carl Jung

A nice read. I like the implications of integrating "The Shadow" to combat Hyperborea and its influences.
>Suspected the only reason it hasn't fallen to Mu or Atlan or worse yet is liberal use of analytical computers to maintain defences
That sounds more like the 4th Layer.
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>Hyperboreans are by default hostile
>By reckoning with and accepting their status as a reflection of mankind and yourself, they become merciful and sympathetic
I AM THOU . . .
THOU ART I . . .
I'm going off the lore doc where the 5th layer is the deepest the brits have gone, and with both mu and Atlan above them it makes sense that they're hostile to people trying to travel past them.
File deleted.
French are also present on the 4th with Nouvelle Alger. If we reduce the area that sinks to exclude the Netherlands than Nieuwtrecht needs a new name.
If people are fine with the British presence on the 4th Layer being under Sarawak then we could call it something like Wallace Point in honor of Alfred Russel Wallace, who would be very likely to explore the area (he was also very into supernatural stuff like spirit seances etc).
As for the timeline, assuming Satsuma falling should be the most recent. Mostly just random dates, as I have no clue what would be "reasonable":

Brits :
> New Kirkwall (3rd) -1865 (shortly after the expedition and the seizure of Iceland)
> Wallace Point (4th) - 1870
> Fort Wellington (5th) - 1874

France :
> Paris (3rd) -1862
> Ys (3rd), Guyenne-Basse (3rd), ??? (3rd) - 1870-71 (colonization boom after the tower is built)
> Nouvelle Alger (4th) - 1873

Tsardom :
> Kitezh (3rd) - 1870 (Verkhoyansk area is cold as shit and in bumfuck nowhere, setting up a colony under it might have been difficult)
> Vladiagartsk (4th) - 1874 (possibly created as a military fort after the Ottoman husks lauch a surprise subterranean raid into the Caucasus)

Austro-Hungaria :
> Maximiliana (4th) - 1868 (after the Italian deal)

> Franklin (3rd) - 1868 (some time after the Civil War)
> New Alamo (4th) - 1875 (some time after the PACT foundation, when Chixculub is discovered in Mexico)

Italy :
> Sicilia Terza(4th ) - either shortly after Stromboli is opened, so 1861, or shortly after the Lidenbrock expedition would emerge from it, like 1864.

Holy League:
> San Ignacio (4th) - 1871
> Ezana (3rd) - 1875 (after the Italian invasion)

Satsuma Domain:
> Kagoshima-no-Yomi (3rd) - 1877
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Messed up the map.
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Thanks, that all sounds very reasonable.
I know some anons wanted to keep the present 1872-1874, would we be good setting it soundly at 1877-78? That would give a bit more room to develop the timeline in regards to colonial stuff.
Its cool to have the "present" set so early that we can imagine the player's action building up the lore but we also somehow need to have factions learn of each other and have time to travel a bit.
But thank you very much for this I'll set it in.
As for a Beastiary. Right now we have :

> Olms
> Saurs (various kinds)
> Quinotaurs
> Giant Bats
> Giant Moles
> Megatherii
> Elasmotherii
> Death Wyrms
> Hippocampi
> Megagecko (what I called the basilisk blue lizard thingy, if its too dumb let me know)
> Grub
> Sky Spider
> Beastle
> Sky Whale
> Cloudelleafint
Can we agree to add the staple of the genre like
> Giant Bees
> Giant Crabs
> Giant Ants
and if so anyone got fancy names for them?
Could just do it by edition. 1e-3e is 1872-74, 4e+ is 1877-beyond.
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Kek that's awesome, I'll keep working on a unified timeline, we can divide it across docs later on.
That's what was suggested a lot, 5e is mid 80s etc. all building up to the Hyperborean Great War eventually.
Carolingian Bees and Giant Yeti Crabs are a thing, there's a fauna section in the doc.
Also I now realize I mixed up the dynasties and they were supposed to be named Merovingian.
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Gee this place is fast sometimes.
Personally I think having it be damaged is the best option. It's book accurate and allows for you to imagine a fully-functional tripod as really OP even if they don't show up in game.

>I gave a cry of astonishment. I saw and thought nothing of the other four Martian monsters; my attention was riveted upon the nearer incident. Simultaneously two other shells burst in the air near the body as the hood twisted round in time to receive, but not in time to dodge, the fourth shell.

>The shell burst clean in the face of the Thing. The hood bulged, flashed, was whirled off in a dozen tattered fragments of red flesh and glittering metal.

>“Hit!” shouted I, with something between a scream and a cheer.

>I heard answering shouts from the people in the water about me. I could have leaped out of the water with that momentary exultation.

>The decapitated colossus reeled like a drunken giant; but it did not fall over. It recovered its balance by a miracle, and, no longer heeding its steps and with the camera that fired the Heat-Ray now rigidly upheld, it reeled swiftly upon Shepperton. The living intelligence, the Martian within the hood, was slain and splashed to the four winds of heaven, and the Thing was now but a mere intricate device of metal whirling to destruction. It drove along in a straight line, incapable of guidance. It struck the tower of Shepperton Church, smashing it down as the impact of a battering ram might have done, swerved aside, blundered on and collapsed with tremendous force into the river out of my sight.
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Campaign Scenario pitch :

Death Across Doggerland
Some random academic reinterpreted an old text as a treasure map pointing to a relic in Doggerland. The players mount “private colonial interest” expeditions to be the first to discover it and return. We know exactly where the Reliquary is hidden (middle of the map), however it is closed and the Keys to it are hidden in a few locations across the map. All players knows is that the Temples holding these Keys are hidden from view from the low ground, but are easily identifiable from the Reliquary at the top of the highest mountain in the middle. Thus, they’ll have to rush to the Reliquary first to find a Temple, go there and then come back with the key.
Overall low narrative content campaign, players much first reach a hex on the map and fight a mini-boss battle, then, depending if they won or lost, another hex will be revealed which they must reach to retrieve the Reliquary Key (if they lost the hex will be further). Once its done, they must then return to the central hex where they had the mini-fight and have this time a final boss fight, which whoever wins gets the Relic. He must then exit the map before other Players steals it from him. Intended as a high lethality, short campaign, the map should be relatively small (max 10 hex across), and players will not have the ability to rehire throughout. Focused on surviving huge amounts of NPC monsters and hazards, as Lemurs and Death Wyrms abound in the area.
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Maneater Madness
A singularily bloodthirsty Beast is on a rampage in any random location of Agartha. Casualties are in the hundreds. The local Deepfolk King has offered to whoever manages to hunt it down to shower him in precious gems or to agree to him marrying his hot princess daughter. The promise of riches or power attracts just about everybody, colonials or Deepfolk, as even the factional powers sees the prospect of being able to plant one of their own in the local’s royalty and immediately think it’ll make colonization easier. But the Beast doesn’t plan on giving up easy.
Intended as a quick campaign that can be set up pretty much anywhere between the 3rd and 5th Layer, the Beast will be rolled at random depending on the Layer, I’m thinking this could work as a “difficulty” setting (the lower the more dangerous the random Beast table is). I am hesitating between it being a relatively normal procedural campaign and a slightly more narrative campaign where one player is designated as the Beast player. Perhaps this one acts as a “DM” and tracks the location of the Beast across the map while others do not know where it is. Players might not be too encouraged to fight one another at the start and so the “DM” could be the designated “Fauna” player and plays smaller battles where he builds attacking forces out of the critters that normally populate an area to plague the hunting parties when these are just camping and refuse to engage one another. Eventually, once/if the Beast is killed, players would probably switch over to being aggressive toward one another by default and try and poach the remains before bringing it back to the King and collecting the riches/hot princess.
My only problem with making them exclusively be damaged is that it feels a bit... Specific, I guess. Like, rather than providing players with the opportunity to include their own Rogue Tripod, they all have to use the same one, if that makes sense.
I thought it was intended to be a unique character? There being a bunch of rogue tripods out there seems kind of weird. (Unless every meteor impact event in the 19th century was a dormant tripod, awaiting activation.)
Thinking I might print out some images, paste them onto cardboard hexes, and run me a game with my flatmate this weekend. Which edition do you guys think I should go for?
I'm gonna say I'm biaised, but 2e.
And here's a Mediafire I just made.

Thanks dude. I'm definitely going to go for a British List, we'll see what flatmate is interested in.
Fair warning then, Brits were made 1st and I expect them to need some buffing. I'll see if I have time to work on it tonight and keep the link updated. 2avr8
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Heads up, I edited out Doggerland and changed the few things that depended on it, i.e. British occupying Indonesia. Also made Vrijkorpers mercs.
I think we could leave it as a small risen island and not the proper actual landbridge uniting the British Isles to the mainland. The latter changes the dynamics of Europe enormously, probably way too much, but the former could be a nice "arena" spot for the Europeans to fight over on the Surface.
Too lethal a place to colonize at the moment, or to really war over, but private concerns could set easily disposable expeditions to it in search of riches and new entrances?
I don't mind one way or another but it could be nice to have a sort of neutral ground on the Surface to fight over, so if we take out Doggerland we could perhaps replace it with something else...
Yeah, I think an island works.
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I also uploaded all the tokens in a folder, eventually I'll rename them and sort them out.
> MFW I see the file uploader and realize there's ~144 units in 2e
That's a good idea. Something that is claimed by the nations in the area and the source of a lot of conflict between them. Could even make a mini campaign out of it "Fight for the Island!"
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Bump for the hated and beloved Great Hornless Gorg
I'm gonna try and work on this project a bit today, if you wanna post some ideas about Hero Traits for the Hornless Gorg that would help!
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>A terrifying impression of a mirror image trapped in glass, moving and miming as if were really there. And it spoke! A language I do not recognize, and something that evidently confused this Jean of Mieu character, but it spoke! What sorcery could devise such an illusion? The General and J of M tried to speak with it awhile, but were clearly unsuccessful as we moved on at their command, both looking clearly disappointed. I later spoke to several of the philological scholars, experts who among them knew all the civilized languages of the world, even as afar as India and as old as Ancient Greece, and none could recognize anything from the strange dialogue this mysterious phantom spoke. I know not what The General seeks down here, but every instance makes me more uncertain of the wisdom of this expedition. Still, I believe in The General, and I must at least see his goal with my own eyes before I escape this horrid place.

An excerpt from the latest in Agarthan fiction, Napoleon's journey to the Pyramids of Giza! Coming soon to a bookstore near you!

This post is made so I can get off my ass and actually finish the damn story.
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I'm gonna buff up the British line a bit today so make sure you use the latest version, especially if your opponent decides to go with USA, which are undoubtedly stronger at the moment.
With that said, here's the Analytical Engineer.
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And the Prediction Engine.
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And "Iceland" Guard!
Will update the weapons to the new weapon system next. Otherwise its not really playable : /
Shouldn't take too long.
Hell yeah! Now I just need to remember where the prophecy rules are located!

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I added them to the Main rule doc, almost at the end. They are also at the end of the British doc.
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>Difference engine using Words that Kill prophecy on a Lemurian Prophet.
The ultimate disrespect, I love it.
Thank you!
so now we have
Firmament :
Cloud Snakes
Rain Dogs
Sun Eaters
Moon Rabbits

3rd Layer
Vampire Mosquitos
Behemoth (Hippopotamus gorgops)
Carolingian Bees
Panther Bats
Boulder Bugs
Giant fire breating Tardigrades
Thuder Moles
Gas Giants
Clind Cave-Fish
Glowing Sea Worms
Yeti Crab
Titan Angler-Frogs
Dragon Turtles
Flying Swarmfish
Python Eels
Albino Skyspiders
Devouring Hanging Gardens
Giant Scorpions
Desert Sharks
Flesh-eating Sandflies
Giant Olms
Sabertooth Seals
Satyr Bats
Typhon Lampreys
Sea Swine

That's quite a lot already. Need to work on figuring out NPC rules asap.
About Russian entrance to Hyperborea. Maybe this will do?
Hate to be that guy but it's prophecy.
we can just chock it up to edition differences.
Wasn't that the joke tho?
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>Sea Swine
God I love this setting.
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So, huh, how does that work precisely?
Like picrel?
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You know how in some parts of Africa elephants go into the caves to lick the walls and have been doing so for innumerable eons?
Now imagine if the wall-stone decomposed into hydrogen in the elephant stomach, I think some sort of calcium rock can do that.

There you go.
It's Agartha. We don't have to explain shit.
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What if we give the Hyperboreans some serious old school Hermeticism theming? Pursuit of AZOTH, distilled from human terror? Dissolve all the impurities in the human soul, leaving only the refined self behind, ready to ascend to the NEXT AGE and bring the HYPERPEACE for all time?
Sort of a major theme I've been sensing through this whole thing is that none of the factions believe themselves to be evil. Even the Ottoman necromancers believe they're saving their empire, their bastion of civilization. Perhaps the Hyperboreans genuinely want to improve mankind through the crucible of the HYPERWAR in order to achieve some higher purpose?
BTW Japanese mythology has a lot of things that you can connect with Mu.
>Dead human-hating mother-deity Izanami lies in the Underworld
>Aboriginal tribes who were living in Japan before the yayoi people arrival became - tsuchigumo, underground-dwelling spider people in japanese folklore
>when father-god Izanagi was fleeing from the underworld an Izanamu rage he left bunch of magical artifacts here to stop monsters behind him
>Mount Osore at the north of Honshu island is well known as "gates of the underworld"
>Shinto has a lot of rituals that are used to cleanse from the "impurity of the underworld"
>At the waters of Okinawa lies the Yonaguni monument
>There are corpse-snatching cat monsters named kasha

So basically I think that it would be a waste to not connect all these dots in 5e. Maybe Japan was a colony/retainer of the Mu during the Jomon period. Wth kasha serving as Tallymen. And then yayoi and some of jomon people with help of mysterious being called Izanagi pushed Mu underground. Izanagi created Shinto cleansing rituals to seal the way to the Agartha and maybe fight the symptoms of Deep Drunk.
Descendants of the Jomon Mu loyalists who were exiled turned into human-spider abominations under the influence of Mu.

In modern times Japan fights Mu invasion forces at the second layer. Japanese presence in the lower layers consists of small, desperate, outnumbered groups of samurai, elite soldiers and shinto priests|mikos trying to find the legendary artifacts of Izanagi to turn the tide of war.
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We did actually reference Izanami with Daji's EMANATION name.
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Maybe she could be ISTR instead?
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Honestly, what's stopping us from making it just DAJI?
Though, worth noting that she's not Izanami just like ol' Laiton isn't Surtr. Probably. Maybe she will be someday, but not yet.
This, but their ears are also huge and they flap them like wings.
So, do people think we have a faction bloat problem or is it fine provided things are expanded on gradually?
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I’m happy to work on Hyperborean lore. I like the Atompunk (1950s dystopian scifi) aesthetic mixed with the Moebius from >>90358025.
Moebius, Philippe Druillet, Atompunk and Technicolor aesthetics are all reminiscient of 1950-1970 science fiction. We can use that to inform further lore.
This is also a good idea. The nineteenth century had many occult movements which could accidentally learn of the EMANATIONS the hard way.
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Bump. As was foreseen.
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That's a nice prophecy-based society you have there.
It sure would be a shame if someone were to render your entire way of life obsolete.

I do wonder how the other factions feel about analytical engineers. They're doing some fucked up shit with what is nominally mundane technology. The British might not even realize they're prophetic.
We certainly are on the verge of it. I think we have lore for many countries but not all of those countries NEED to be a playable faction. We don't really even need to scrap them, just postpone them until we can give more flavor and consistency to the ones we already agreed should be there.
I would love that. We should just decide on a direction for them at the moment, and if they should be an NPC faction or a playable one. If they are to be playable, I think we should also envision a way for an Hyperborea player to have a narrative goal for the purpose of a campaign. Not only that, a more "streamlined" lore would also inform us of what the units are and what do they do (or perhaps I am thinking of 3e in which each unit had a role, like "officer" or "soldier".)
Lore-wise, how do analytical engines (and prophecies in general) work? Do they see through the veil of fate and make predictions/prophecies based on what data they can gather/see, or do they force their will on it, bringing about a favourable result to a given situation? Or something else entirely?
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>Do they see through the veil of fate and make predictions/prophecies based on what data they can gather/see, or do they force their will on it, bringing about a favourable result to a given situation? Or something else entirely?

I'm assuming every faction who uses it have a different explanation. If you put a British, Lemurian, and Fateless into the same room and asked them about it, you'll get nine different answers and two dead bodies.
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So, something like this?
We should also make a point to include discoveries of Entrances into the Timeline, since its a pretty big deal.

Entrance timeline
Brits :
Mt. Snaefellsjokull
Doggerland Clearwater Cave, Sarawak
Birkbeck Chasm

Doggerland (disputed with Brits)
Eiffel Tower
Bruniquel Cavern

Ottomans :
Istanbul Necropolis
Giza Pyramid

Tsardom :
Verkhoyansk Range
Mlokosiewicz Cave

Mammoth Cave

Italy :
Stromboli Volcano

Some of those will already be referred to, like the Necropolis, but many don't really have a story besides being mentioned.
>Mammoth Cave
Wait a second, mammoth can mean big, but it can also mean MAMMOTH

Wooly Cloudelleafints confirmed?
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Started working on the 2e NPC rules, here's what I got. I'm gonna try to "scaffold" (don't know if I'm really using the term right desu) the rules so that unit behaviors are a bit more varied than this, but overall it shouldn't be much more complex than this.
Will also make picture examples to make everything clearer.
Will work on a few more behaviors tomorrow, and a sample or two of NPCs.
So everyone feel free to shitpost some fun rules about the monsters on >>90377754 this list.
Obviously analytical engines just work off of advanced mathematics scaled up to various solve social and political equations. They are not perceived to make prophecies, unless you would consider a prediction of an election based on polling data and other factors to be a "prophecy".
Two thoughts. 1. Hyperborea somewhat contrary to what I posted in >>90383158 shouldn’t be unified enough for the whole faction to have the hermetic goals. There should be competition subfactions with different ideas. This makes logical sense and it will help us support both Hyperborea as a playable faction and a nonplayable faction. Playable and nonplayable Hyperborea may have different ideas.
I think the biggest sub-thematic difference should be their methods of causing pain and suffering. So the regular hyperwarrior should think the best way is by melting peoples skin and frying their nerves, while another might think it's through psychically raping their soul, another by making them skin slaves, etc. Like the Super Troopers and Supermen being Metropolis inspired, they might think the best way to do it is by kidnapping peoples brains and throwing it in a robot body to torture them for all eternity. Depraved shit like that.
Then should models/units in Hyperborea all be as modular as feasible? So that basically each unit is customizable enough to be slotted into a certain subfaction if the right traits and options are selected? But even then, we'd be putting limitations to Hyperborea, while many others are claiming that Hyperborea is basically an "anything goes" faction.
It could depend which of the rulesets (1e, 2e, …) we use.
From a lore point of view Hyperborean subfactions could follow different emanations. Each emanation would provide different stats to its followers. Some would refuse to follow the emanations, and could compensate with technology. This would run the full gamut of tripods to horrors of WW1 to Metropolis Super Troopers to 50s dystopian atompunk. We probably need a name just for the technophile subfaction.
>shouldn’t be unified enough for the whole faction to have the hermetic goals.
This was always my vision for it.
While I appreciate this >>90359187, I think linking Hyperborea too much to psychoanalytical concepts is the wrong way to go. Hyperborea never seemed to me to be psychic representations of our fears or suffering as deamons are in WHFB, rather they are things that feed or use those psychic representations as we would any material object we would. Rather than a psychoanalytical or cultural analysis, I'd opt for a phenomenological/ontological one. In the historical-material process of Agartha, Hyperborea represents the moment of immanentization of the eschaton, the break point at the end of the cycle which herald its resetting.
The process is one of ontological degeneration. As a person becomes Deep Drunk from the effect of unseen forces acting as pressure on the soul, so do the Geist or Spirit of a civilization as it reaches deeper into Agartha.
I have to go into work into emergency so I will write more on this a bit later.
The forces at play are exemplified by both the Shadows and the Volcanic Spirits, as opposed forces of stagnation and exacerbation, respectively. Layers are literally ontological regions that have been degenerated. Initially it is expressed by a disconnect felt by the agent in regards to his normal existential concerns (the "schizo" aspect), but the deeper it goes even basic ontological regions such as mereology and mathematics no longer obey the same rationality. Which is perhaps where the Analytical Engines comes in (it models current and future conditions based on the differences the same values would have in different Layers in order to produce a Prediction...?).
Hyperborea is not so much such a force, except perhaps to initiate the motion of the Loop, rather it is its conclusion. Our own existential concerns should have very little relation with those of Hyperboreans because they are what happen to anything once it has been completely and utterly corrupted metaphysically. In phenomenological terms, they are the Ur-Realm which lays beyond the absolute reduction of the Ego and Self and which is unknowable. However the phenomenology of Agartha, contrary to that of Husserl, is not about Truth, but about Sanity, or Logos from the human point-of-view. Hyperborea is what lays beyond any form of Sanity, any relationship to our Umwelt.
This doesn't mean Hyperborea should be a mass of Eldrith randomness, however. It is a fixed point in the structure of History looping unto itself, and so should be somewhat recognizable as a amalgation of end-point civilizations. We can integrate the rainbow neon color palette thematically easily in the form of Emanation and representation of the aggressiveness inherent to the Hyperboreans themselves.
>Which is perhaps where the Analytical Engines comes in...
The Engine knows what is at all times. It knows this because it knows what isn't. By subtracting what is from what isn't, or what isn't from what is (whichever is greater), it obtains a difference, or deviation. The modeling subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the model from a state where it know what is to a state where it knows what isn't, and arriving at a state where it knowns what wasn't, it now knows what is. Consequently, the state that currently is, is now the state that previously wasn't, and it follows that the state that it was, is now the state that it isn't.
In the event that the state that it is in is not the state that it wasn't, the Egine has acquired a variation, the variation being the difference between what is, and what wasn't. If variation is considered to be a significant factor, it too may be corrected by the Analytical Engine. However, the Engine must also know what it was.
The Analytical Engine modeling scenario works as follows. Because a variation has modified some of the information the Engine has obtained, it is not sure just what is. However, it is sure what isn't, within reason, and it knows what was. It now subtracts what should be from what isn't, or vice-versa, and by differentiating this from the algebraic sum of what shouldn't be, and what was, it is able to obtain the deviation and its variation, which is called prediction.
Ok so in other words Hyperborea embodies the end from a entropic, existential point of view. The question is: how do we reconcile all the different aesthetics we chalked up to Hyperborea into one coherent framework?
> Ranks are based on Emanation Status, i.e. Origin, Masters, Conduits, etc. Origin is the highest rank.
> Subfactions are Martians, Historicals, Hyperwarriors, etc.
> Martians are the technophile faction. They use Emanations but as fuel and sustenance only, and see other Factions spreading theirs everywhere as they go as being incredibly wasteful. They produce the best Tripods, the best Memory Engines, the less leaky Fear Tanks (fuel tanks for Hyperborean tech). They tend to go for less overt "skin you alive for 1000s years" torture because they have optimized their emanation extraction tech to the max, and thus only need to really abduct a few randos, anal probe them and maybe drill their teeths with lasers from time to time.
> Historicals* are the Greatest Sociopath of History being elevated to the level of Hyperborean beings. Because many Hyperborean civilizations are so alien, they create these in order to lead their armies in prevision of this current Cycle's invasion, so as to maximize suffering throughout the conflict. These are very few and rare, and despite them originally being humans, they are granted a high status and a lot of respect, as they are nearly always capable of great feats of control over Emanations, often reaching the ranks of Masters or at least Conduits. Of note, after Cromwell's fiasco and escape from the Memory Engine, no new Historicals have been elevated during this cycle.
> Hyperwarriors : The rainbow masks-wearing dystopian warriors. More of a cult or way of life than an actual ancient civilization, Hyperwarriors focuses exclusively on the application of military pressure to produce suffering and alter the civilizations they are looking to integrate. As such, war is the ultimate good and goal for hyperwarriors. Everything they do is to encourage it happening, or to maintain war effectiveness. They don't have peacekeepers, they have warkeepers.
More I think about it more we could include "psychoanalytical" concepts or representations as a "subfaction".
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All this talk reminded me of something, and I came upon a bit of a realization:
>In the original jak for the Analytical Engineer, it is stated that they may have caused the downfall of Hyperborea
>Hyperboreans get power from fear and pain
>The opposite of fear and pain is not bravery or ecstasy, it is the lack of emotions. One must be first afraid to be brave after all.
>The Analytical Engine cannot be afraid. It can never feel pain. It is the hard counter to Hyperborea, plain and simple.
There's something here, a story I think may be perhaps as important as that of Napoleon himself. There are two robot units and the Analytical engines themselves, so how do they all connect? Who made the Clockwork Automaton? What is the Clockwork Thinker?

I do apologize if this seems overblown and pretentious, but I have a fondness for robots.
They're cool and they go beep.
Maybe if we ever get stats for them all I'll run a Napoleon robot squad list.
I love robots, and I think these are very interesting questions. We must now try our best NOT to answer them.
>Ranks are based on Emanation Status, i.e. Origin, Masters, Conduits, etc. Origin is the highest rank.
Master is the highest rank. Origin is a special rank, outside the normal hierarchy. Entities like the BRAIN-MANIFOLD are truly on another level, even above other Hyperboreans.
Best not to have too many of them running around.
>We must now try our best NOT to answer them.
Fair enough. There's always a risk of falling for the GW trap and ruining the mystery of exploring a vast underground world.
>Who made the Clockwork Automaton? What is the Clockwork Thinker?
Yeah, we really have set those ones aside completely. Would be nice to figure out where to fit them, or if we are going to keep them.
>Master is the highest rank. Origin is a special rank, outside the normal hierarchy.
Makes sense. We should come up with other ranks. Vector?
>Then should models/units in Hyperborea all be as modular as feasible?
That's a thought. I could come up with a system like the Hero Traits but for all Hyperboreans. We could still have "official" units that goes along with it, but they could be built from it.
Kek, I like this one. But what happens once the setting invents missiles? Or will the missiles travel through time as well as space? Retroactively targeting where their target will be precisely when they get there?
That's simple really, every missile has a small Analytical Engine in it.
The British already have Congreve Rockets, those are pretty cool.
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>Your map of Agartha is really quite nice. But my map of Agartha lies in Europe. Here is the Tsardom, and here is France and we're in the middle. Here flows my "Alph" - from Basel to Amsterdam, and beyond it - Elsaß-Lothringen. That's my map of Agartha.
>“This place was not built by the Egyptians. Nor these Lemurians, or Hyperboreans. It is older than they. Perhaps it has always been here…”
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Epic as fuck. What’s your idea of what Cromwell did? How did they capture him in the first place?
It's just about that time again.
To whoever ends up baking, please add the mediafire link from >>90365789
to the link post, thank you!
Quick bump for the gorgs.
Baking, won't be long.

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