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>TL;DR Doc (WIP) This needs a bit more fleshing out
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LxdaGoBlJRTMuziMDupG5TeeFwNDnsIW2pfaRAcFDgA
> Lore Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bRrxdD1BMLmcMDFeszwqg2Rcjrt8DDo7tjAxoOB6KQ8
> Rules Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14ZpHhEyUbjt-SCx2xuAd0lyh7Rs4J7rK5kHkljqykhk/
> Unit Spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rcleQtrT4Q0INiBW50-kq2ZXWJ-cjLOeVTLTJg_oX5E

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REJECT DECENCY
EMBRACE THUNDER MOLE

>>89115241
We should also start including the Unit Design Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n0X89OdMPXJKQGm6kYcOABjhjE4NZER1fvmpDmDX1JA

We are currently discussing EQUIPMENT, how to handle it, and seem to be leaning toward purchasable equipment tables.

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REJECT MOLEDERNITY
EMBRACE GORG

If we implement looting, it shouldn't be guaranteed, I think. Cause if your Atlantean Sharpshooters are guaranteed to get bolt-actions after one encounter, things might get out of hand fast

>>89115601
Chance of equipment damage is a possibility. So many rolls though...

>>89115607
It could be just one roll after battle that retroactively decides if any equipment is salvageable, maybe with modifiers if you have units who are supposed to be good at looting, repairing things and Heroes and Leaders with specific abilities.

>>89115641
Okay, that's a solid idea.
How about some kind of generic "Battle Conclusion" rules in the campaign mode.
That is, a set of events that take place as a battle ends. Attrition and disease impacts might be other things to add to that.

>>89115601
This isn't Skyrim, we don't necessarily need every piece of equipment on a soldier to be lootable after the battle. We could do another bunch of tables; mostly faction based, maybe with some more options for merc-heavy armies as well. Whenever you defeat a faction in a campaign battle, you roll on that army's loot table to determine what you're able to carry away from the field.
Also, is it just me, or does the campaign mode seem like it needs at least three players? It might become sort of a solved game if you only have one opponent and your army can reliably beat theirs.

>>89115653
Attrition and disease seem like more suited for a larger scale game (which we might eventually have), no? A small expedition would probably be far less likely to have disease outbreaks and losing even like 3 people to disease or infected wounds or whatever could be crippling to an army of 15 or so. And you'll probably be losing people to shit like cave-ins, anomalies, Lemurs and other hazards. Though, I suppose, it might work and even be fun if you're supposed to resupply and get reinforcements at appropriate rates.

>>89115873
That, or make retreating and comebacks viable.

>>89115873
>>89115897
I think that implementing a side objective based reward system that gives additional silver could be helpful.
Then even if you lose many encounters you can use the bonus objective silver to purchase mercenary units or other resources that may tip the scale.

>>89114145
How it should work in my opinion is that you have a home base which varies based on the faction you're playing (some start deeper than others) and you need to maintain a logistical network built with labor points that connects your new discoveries to your market.

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A while back, someone read through my works and told me to get on their level, for I lacked sky whales.

Pick up your shovel and start digging, buddy. I'm not coming up to your layer any time soon.

>>89116148
>28 more pages
this man is a fucking machine

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>>89116148
Jesus fucking Christ, anon. I wish I was this productive when I did my MA.

>>89116148
>the madlad actually did it
I doff my hat to you, sir!

>>89116182
Wrote that in between work hours. Not my best work, sadly.

>>89116218
Hey now, no need to flex.

>>89116264
Not trying to. I literally had hour breaks between my work that I wrote during. Spent all this time writing then.

Didn't actually write it in just one hour, I'm not that good.

>>89116148
>Sky People weaponized whale shit
>Actually translated the "Six Million Germans" war chant into Ancient Greek
>"Mon dieu. Lemurs."
>The long-awaited poker game
This is beyond kino.

One minor note about Mexico, however. I'm not sure they'd be actually hit by the Hyperborean attack during the Paraguay stuff. I think it would've been contained to, well, Paraguay and the immediate surroundings. A LatAm-wide Hyperborean invasion would be a straight up Apocalypse.

>>89115359
WHAT GORG DO?

>>89116659
At first I was confused.

Then I found out I screwed up on that specific annotation while re-reading what I wrote. It should have mentioned damage done to Paraguay, not any damage occurring to Mexico. My bad there.

>>89118807
Also it never occured to me until now because I've picked up enough French and Spanish to read your dialogue, but you might want to add TL notes or something.

Who's the current president of the USA?

>>89117523
DRINK STINK JUICE
SMASH PUNIES
DRINK MORE STINK JUICE
DA GOOD LIFE

>>89119979
Probably Hayes, unless we've butterflied the U.S. electoral history into oblivion with everything that happened in the lore.

>>89119979
>>89120251
1861-1865: Lincoln
1865-1869: Johnson
1869-1877: Grant
1877-1881: Hayes
1881-1881: Garfield
1881-1885: Arthur
Probably one of these guys depending on the exact date of your expedition.

>>89120301
>Grant led the U.S. during the Paraguay Incident
>Pedro II literally fought Hyperboreans
KINO
I
N
O

>>89120251
It'd probably have some sort of impact

>>89120683
Third Grant term actually happens? I know he wasn't that good of a president, but think of his image. He'd be considered a God among men after Paraguay.

>>89116148
sky whale anon here, holy shit dude

So are we agreed on the weapon tables idea?

>>89123453
I'm for it.

>>89115225
Author of shot in the dark here, working on the tyrant of Italy short story. It'll be done soon, like a week.

>>89123453
As the anon against variant weapons, I prefer it over the alternative of mere unit-specific weapon variants.

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>>89123453
Most certainly!

>>89123453
Seems like it
I'd keep it simple, models can only use the equipment from their table. Explain this restriction with lack of training, maintenance tools, ammo, whatever. Basic equipment would overlap in most factions, so this would only prevent the use of advanced faction-specific tech by non-faction members, so undergrounders wouldn't know how to operate a Computational engine.

When I proposed the idea in the previous thread I envisioned it like this:
> British Common Equipment Table (Simple firearms/melee weapons and tools, accessible to all faction units)
> British Troops Equipment Table (Government issue stuff, available to Troops and Combat-Aligned Leaders)
> Maybe a third Equipment Table for Factions with Esoteric Models
Pretty much a copy of how Mordheim handles it. Feel free to post suggestions

Some anons were also discussing looting, but to me it seems like it can lead to snowballing and doesn't really mesh with the feel of the game. Expeditions are sent to discover hidden artifacts, resources and knowledge, not steal weapons and armor from the dead. It could work as a unique special rule for a model though (iirc some rebels from the surface compass used looted stuff)

>>89120868
Grant is the FDR of this timeline

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>>89120301

>>89120301
Timeline wise, its either Grant or Hayes.

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Sorry i haven't been around. Busy busy.
Should be able to start on Hyas soon. just here to post an update.

>>89126071
>Bophades is still under consideration
Lads, I am both amused and horrified.

>>89126071
take your time anon, no need to rush.

i was thinking of sketching up some morlocks to get a base idea down. do we have any general idea for the aesthetics outside of vaguelly fishy?

>>89126708
I think vaguely amphibian is closer to what I'm imagining.
An odd reference, but considering the original Tall-Fin 'jak, perhaps the Asari from Mass Effect as light inspiration?

>>89126729
>perhaps the Asari from Mass Effect as light inspiration
This runs the risk of making the Morlocks into coom-bait. I'm conflicted as to whether that's a good or bad idea, considering the conceit of "this is a game made by a bunch of dipshits a couple decades ago."

>>89126760
Oh no no, not coombait side of Asari, the tentacle-headed "hint of shub niggurath" look.

>>89126729
>>89126760
my take was more fellwater trolls from warhammer with creature from the black lagoon, leaning more the latter albeit somewhat shrunken since they're meant to be cheap hoards

>>89123527
Noice.

>>89126760
>>89126776
>>89126779
>Morlocks are deep-dwellers with extremely variable physiology. Though many are considered feral, some are intelligent enough to collaborate in tribal groups. Others become smarter as a result of exposure to human society, often as a result of slavery by the hands of Atlan and Muic societies.
>Morlocks that are born in the wild tend to be more monstrous while Morlocks born in captivity tend to be smoother, more lithe, and more sociable.
>Morlocks that escape captivity can experience a metamorphosis in much the same manner as feralized pigs, becoming larger and more aggressive. Mixed Morlocks, born of feral and domesticated parents, can become even larger and more dangerous than normal Morlocks of either type.
>Morlocks do not stop growing, until their body can no longer sustain themselves and collapse under their own weight. Many elder Morlocks live exclusively in underground pockets of water in order to stave off their deaths at the hands of Isaac Newton, relying on their spawn to provide them with food in more isolated pools.
>One noble of Old Mu had a trophy Morlock wife, carefully bred to maximize soft features, a docile temperament, and intelligence. After six years, she killed him in his sleep and escaped through the city sewers, becoming a legendary figure among Morlock slaves.
Thoughts?

>>89126836
>>One noble of Old Mu had a trophy Morlock wife, carefully bred to maximize soft features
wait wait wait
you're telling me Mu has a fucking eugenics program to breed hot morlock waifus?
where do I sign up?

>>89126836
I don't think the nobles of Old Mu are interested in (or capable of) sex, even with the hot Morlock waifus. But he could always have kept her as a trophy for just the aesthetics, I guess.

>>89126836
>>89126870
>>89126879
i'm not for waifu morlocks to be honest, but it would be funny as fuck if this "trophy morlock wife" was basically just a normal one with slightly smoother features. still had scaly skin, fins, and a hunched goblin posture.

>>89126870
One, ONE guy from Old Mu had a Morlock wife.
>The term "Morlock Wife" is now a widespread slang term originating in Mu that refers to a wife or lover who has or will certainly betray you. More broadly, it is used to refer to any close associate you expect to turn on you at some point that you continue to associate with nonetheless.
>>89126879
That's honestly what I was going for more than "funny fish sexo," but having that be an in-universe point of confusion (New Mu understands the distinction, most Outlanders do not) could be a fun little detail.
I'm much more invested in the idea of making them never stop growing. Ancient Morlocks, incapable of standing on their hind legs, being fitted with artillery crewed by their own teeming swarms of children is what I'm picturing.

>>89126908
>One, ONE guy from Old Mu had a Morlock wife.
... so you're saying there's a chance?

>>89126919
t. man who will get shanked with a broken plate

>>89126965
well. at least I'll die happy

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still in-progress, but wanted tips on what you anons thought so far. i leaned pretty heavy into that black lagoon vibe but also went with a pretty classic fantasy goblin-like creature.

i'm iffy on the face, even counting for the fact this pic is meant to be stylized and not a 1-1. i like it but it feels like it needs more, particularly on top.

I see now that including one paragraph of a joke about a morlock gf was a mistake. My proposals are thus as follows:

A: Morlock Wife is a real thing that happened in Old Mu.

B: The event described is pure fiction in-universe, either of Muic origin (probably as an aesop against excess/trusting lower life forms too much) or from another Agarthan society (As a satire against Old Mu)

C: One of the above two options, but it is only considered canon in the earlier editions where the lore was vastly less serious.

D: The Morlock GF is stricken from canon altogether.

I want to keep the rest, though, I think it's neat. I also think it could be neat to give the Morlocks their own legendary figures, but that definitely doesn't have to be a Morlock Eugenics Waifu.

>>89127189
I feel like axes, daggers, and spears should be the Morlock weapons of choice.

>>89127189
I don't know about the "ear fins", they're a little generic. I dig the direction though.

>>89127190
how about it was originally just a trophy/pet, but eventually got mistranslate/misremembered into Wife by outlanders and now it sticks as a running joke against them.

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>>89127190
ITS TOO LATE, ANON.
JUMP MAN AND WHORELOCK ARE HERE TO STAY.

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>>89127208
>whorelock

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>>89127208
>whorelock

>>89127190
I like B.

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update: art is hard

>>89127285
this is a joke regarding the difficulties of the creative process, not an actual suggestion, as much as it made me laugh

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>>89127285
Maybe pull something from these guys? Piggish faces, long wet kelplike hair.

>>89127285
I like the mohawk fin more than the ear fins for sure, but the first face more.

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I feel like the Morlocks are a strong candidate to get their own minor faction in a later edition, splitting off from their use in Atlan and Mu armies.

>>89120301
I'm going hayes, we need it to be definitely within the actual colonial era at the least to explain why Britons, Frenchmen and Germans are even having expeditions. Regardless of alt-history, suspension of disbelief will start to take place when you have the powers that be sending manpower under the earth instead of the literal resource stockpile that is a sea away from them, in some cases a strait away with Spain.

>>89127367
The underground is also a stockpile of resources ripe for the pillaging, including some exotic and mysterious materials like Titanium.

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>>89126836
denied and promptly sacrificed for our machines.

>>89127379
would take more effort to do so then getting africans to mine/pan for gold/build oil rigs.

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>>89127353
i could see it, but i like them better as a subfaction. i like the idea of every faction being human-adjacent.

>>89127438
Now that's a fishy fucker I can get behind.

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>>89127189
>>89127285
>>89127438
This is a Handfish. Say hello!
I propose we model Morlocks at least in part off the Handfish.

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If you couldn't tell by the name, Handfish have (fully functional) hands.
Distant cousin of the Morlocks perhaps!?
Are Morlocks ALSO distant cousins of the legendary Legfish?!

Did someone cut a Morlock in half to make both!?

>>89127420
>Mining for gold
>Drilling for oil
Both of these things will expose you to Agarthan interference. Hell, Lemurians just involved themselves in India against the English during the Sepoy Rebellion for basically no reason other than their own brand of imperialism.

>>89127367
Speaking of Germans, do we want to do anything with the Germany proper? Prussia would at least form NGF. If we keep Austrians working with Italy, the more Catholic southern states like Bavaria would probably no longer see them as a viable ally. They would then either give up and join Prussia to form the empire or possibly (and especially so if Prussians and Italians cooperate to invade Austria like OTL) form their own confederation, with cordial relations to France.
>>89127476
>Distant cousin of the Morlocks perhaps!?
I would argue Morlocks are still homo-something, like they were conceived originally, the aquatic features are just convergent evolution.

>>89127542
>I would argue Morlocks are still homo-something, like they were conceived originally, the aquatic features are just convergent evolution.

who's to say handfish aren't the same, but merely more degenerated...

>>89127463
>>89127476
i'm tired now, but i'll go over the design more tomorrow. i like the idea of this a lot, though a lot of the more fish-inspired designs i tried out and didn't post just kinda looked like murlocs, which i wanted to avoid.

i wanted to intentionally blur the lines of what the hell this thing truly is, with fish and mammalian aspects to it. feels like a very classic circus man-beast type attraction, especially with the Creature from the Black Lagoon inspiration, that fits into the setting well. with that being said, basing designs off of the natural world is dope as hell to me so i'll give it a shot.

maybe hand-fish could be adolescent morlocks?

>>89127535
that lore splurge was retarded and the writers didn't even hide that they were making lemuria into an allegory for the indo-aryans and their invasion, since beforehand the Lemurians had kept to themselves and only fought defensive wars in nearly every edition. It had to be some lefty they hired from twitter to take the token pagan faction and make some strawman about how they're evil.

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>>89127565
>Humans degenerate into fish
>Fish evolve into humans

>>89127581
>"some strawman about how they're evil."
>they killed a bunch of angloids
lemurians are clearly the protagonists of this game and have never done anything wrong.

>>89127595
THE CYCLE
IT NEVER ENDS

>>89127581
How are they evil, exactly? In this particular respect, at least. They literally helped free India and aid other anti-colonial uprisings. They didn't conquer them, from what we know, the local elites are just influenced by them, but by and large seem autonomoud. Whatever sinister ulterior motives they may have, if any, are not yet apparent. You coud just as easily argue that they're a leftist anti-colonial wank.

>>89127600
Atlan are the protagonists, and you would be smart to remember that.

>>89127627
No one can agree on what Lemuria's motivations or modern political equivalents are.
Everyone can agree they get wanked. There was an entire novel series about it, that's how we got Beaucha(d)mp.

>>89127600
you say that but it's safe to assume from the addition of underground railroad agents a few fucking decades after the civil war and spanish-american war, that this is just the beginning of them fucking the entire setting beyond repair. You won't be singing praises once this edition's content has been fully released, I bet you my ass they'll somehow sneak in socialists just because it's past the 1840s. Just wait, It'll happen.

>>89127643
Anon, Marseille commune happened. Marx is literally still alive. I also have a sneaking suspicion that the Anarchist bombers are, well, Anarchists.

>>89127654
see now you're doing the justifying, this is what happens! first half of the community plays devil's advocate, the other half don't play ball, then that half gets demonized simply for disagreeing. It's the community metastasis happening.

>>89127685
yeah i bet you think the whorelock retcon was the end of the world, too

>>89127699
it was lazy, come on. You know it, I know it, it was them avoiding adding the Eloi and making the reference go full circle, really? this is the hill you're dying on?

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>>89123527
Imagine being a demigod with volcano magic and STILL getting wrecked in Ethiopia.

>>89120301
>>89120251
>>89119979
I thought we agreed (and by "we" I mean the people I was conversing with at the time) that we should avoid RL figures as much as possible, mostly because it's boring. Different people lived.

>>89128083
>mostly because it's boring
Debatable and people like Charles L.N.B., Leopold II and Alexander II were used since the start. Though I can see the merit of not using their actual names and referring to them by monikers like Prince-Commander, Builder King, Tsar etc.

>>89128131
I'm not totally against any and all historical figures, but I'd prefer we be creative as the timeline advances. Assuming everything is just the same is what's boring.

>>89128166
>Assuming everything is just the same is what's boring.
I agree with this sentiment, too.
We already have the historical figures we've been rolling with. We should try to push things to more interesting territory.

>>89128193
The rule of thumb should be divergence at Napoleon, increasing use of new characters as timeline advances. So to answer >>89119979 , the current President of the US shouldn't be Garfield or Arthur. It shouldn't be anyone we've ever heard of.

>>89128197
> It shouldn't be anyone we've ever heard of.
Unironically, dare I say.,...
the first black president?

...President Douglas!?

>>89128299
Make him a Paraguay vet who served under Grant, too

>>89128166
assuming somehow things that are happening several hundred kilometers beneath the surface somehow has this profound effect on the surface all the time is also going to get old, quick.

>>89128516
There are people from the surface that are coming in, and fighting, and sometimes returning, and doing everything they can to maximize their effect on the surface while other things are also trying to affect the surface.

>>89128166
I think we shouldn't outright ban historical figures from here on, but we should heavily encourage OC, to make the setting more lively. Here's an example I just cooked up.

Lord Edward "Lead" Cunningham, First Lord of the Admiralty 1872-?
>Total warhawk
>Lead the British seizure of Iceland
>Source behind the most aggressive British foreign policy in living memory
>Pushed for development of advanced submersibles maintain British naval supremacy
>Lobbied for use of native auxiliaries in the underground
>Patronised Hiram Maxim in the development of his gun
>Some say he has ambitions for the Prime Ministership itself...

>>89129138
>One of the reasons the Anglo-French rivalry will not end any time soon

>>89129138
gotta give an unironic "Holy fuck finally the surface factions get more leader ideas" to that.

Honestly, I was doing the opposite and trying to tie everything in with relevant historical figures like what Tripfag did in the original Nu-Italy draft, but if we're fine with a little OC, it provides for some workarounds if you can't find someone to fill the needed role.

>>89129138
>Given peerage as the Duke of Iceland for his efforts

>>89129138
>The Warring Popes
>One is in Rome itself, after the Tyrant of naples seized the vatican city
>Jesus was not crucified, the romans burnt him on a pyre
>The Ashes of his sacrifice blew across the world
>The soil is steeped in sin
>It must be made anew

The Second Pope
>The Catholic pope, officially
>Was elected in an emergency when the Tyrant's troops broke through the Vatican walls
>Old, tired, but young enough to still heft a sword
>The Faithful shall be gaurded, The Tyrant's ambitions felled. Like David to Goliath.
>Barely keeping the Orthodox brothers from fucking off back to russia.

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>>89130255
Volcano Italians were written as decidedly anti-christian by this point, they've got their own religion based on Masonic rituals and Sicilian witchcraft. The is actually an anti-Pope, who is supposed to be in Austria and exists purely to produce copium justifying the Austro-Italian alliance.
Speaking of that, does the Austro-Italian alliance, begrudging as it may be, make sense to everyone? On one hand it kinda works, since the Italians do need some friendly neighbours to not become North Korea of the Mediterranean and to explain why they aren't under constant threat of the Franco-Austrian double penetration. And if they have a monopoly on the Central European Agartha travel as suggested, then the Austrians wouldn't have much of a choice. Besides, if Austrians don't cooperate with Italy, there's 0 reason the Pope wouldn't just throw his weight behind the Catholic behemoth right on the border of Italy, which would make AoF kinda redundant.
But historically, Italians were natural allies with the Germans in this period, but we still haven't figured out the state that Germany is in. One of the advantages of Mega-Austria, wacky as it was, was that it put Prussia and the others into the background.

>>89115225
Redpill me on the historical people from past that are still alive

>>89130377
>Austrian Anti-Pope combining paganism and satanic rituals to pass it off as "The New Faith, Reborn in fire"
Literally the False prophet from the book of revelations. Based.

>>89130377
Germany could be ruthless pragmatists. Complete atheists who see the faithful alliance in iberia as fucking with their industrial progress. And thus, secure ties with Italy for it's access to materials, and the Mediterranean
Austria could be a relgious Anti-Pope police state, where the new faith is practiced to keep ideals of old Christendom out. With a firebrand zealotry from the younger generation (Heh, Firebrand)
So you have the Faithful Alliance on one side of europe, and the powers of Soot and Fire on the other. A nice prelude to a possible world war

>>89131624
I'm partial to the idea that Bismarck has kicked into gear and is practicing his diplomacy not only on the surface, but also below. The Titanium Chancellor. Germany itself has remained relatively normal, compared to Europe, and thus not as influential, but it has industry, and does not want it's position threatened at any costs.

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>>89131581
Hmm, based as it may be, I'm not sure the Austrians would go quite that far. The whole point of the alliance in the current lore seems to be basically ruthless Realpolitik. Pope just couldn't offer the same benefits the Italians could. Austrian Church would be more like Anglicanism, something that came into being more over political conflict with the Pope rather than some theological debate. Basically, Josephinism if taken to its logical endpoint.
You also have to take in mind that they'd need to sell it to their populace. In Italy, the radical anti-Christian sentiment of the Volcanists was intertwined with the whole Risorgimento movement, especially after the Pope declared the Crusade and basically called for foreign invaders to come and strangle the nascent Duosicilian/Italian republic in the name of Christ.
In Austria people were just minding their own business until suddenly Pope was le bad. "Pope is le bad" is not a hard message to sell by itself, but "Pope is le bad and also here are some radical and suspiciously pagan/Satanic revisions to the doctrine and rituals you're all used to" is much less so. Last thing Austria would need is more instability and division and I'm pretty sure we're already stretching things quite far for Austria, as it is.

>>89131624
See, yeah, the Unholy Triple Alliance *seems* like a good idea with the current state of things. Germany or NGF will still become allies with the Austrians, assuming their war goes more or less the same. They will hate France even more as they'd want Alsace-Lorraine. Since they're chummy with Italy, France is inclined to support the Pope. Since Austrians have coughed up some of the Italian territorial possessions already for Stromboli access, Italy can focus on France full-time and less likely to make any backroom deals with them like OTL. It's also just tenuous enough to allow for some conflict between members still. The only issue is if south German states remain independent or not, since they'll end up hating both Prussia and Austria in this setup.

>>89130386
Napoleon is really cool and based.

I'd bet money that there are husked vikings under Iceland. Possible new unit for 5th ed?

>>89131581
>>89131864
Here's an idea: what if this Volcanist-influenced Christian heresy is simply a syncretic cult that developed in Austria-Hungary, primarily in the Italian populated/influenced areas, like the legations in Trieste etc., among the local radical youth? No official state patronage, but no persecution either, as Austria-Hungary is rapidly secularizing under Maximilian I, guaranteeing freedom of religion.

>>89130386
Napoleon is a shadowy monster plotting something in the frozen wastes of the 9th Layer. He is either insane and will doom as all or the most based man to ever exist who will save the world.
Muhammad Ali Pasha is 100+ years old for some reason, he is leading Egypt against the Husks.
Cromwell is a Hyperborean train demon driven by hatred of Catholics and Irish (same thing really), but his inclusion is a subject to some controversy (I also think he's too much of a meme).
Daji is also a Hyperborean demonness, who appears under different names over the course of history as a corrupting influence.
The Dragon is a Transylvanian infantryman who is secretly a vampire and may or may not be Vlad Tepes.

>>89133230
Cromwell isn't a train, he's a memory engine in human form and isn't of Hyperborean origin. He just wound up beyond the Firmament somehow.

>>89133339
Yeah, I didn't mean to sound like he was Hyperborean all along, my bad.

>>89133230
>Daji
She's also implied to be Elizabeth Bathory.
I don't remember what I made her Hyperborean name, but I still like THE FOX OF SHANG as a title.

Okay, how does this sound?
>'60s - Prussia and Italy attack Austria together like in OTL, the outrage against Prussia across Catholic Germany is even more pronounced
>North German Federation forms and Austro-Hungarian compromise happens
>Austrians sell their soul to the Italians, Pope excommunicates the emperor and the Imperial Church severs ties to Avignon
>South German states, disillusioned with both Prussia and Austria, decide to create their own Federation
>'70s - SGF starts getting a little too friendly with France, their only viable ally left
>NGF threatens war against France and SGF, this in turn riles up AH and the Tsardom (who aren't as mad at either France or AH due to the Crimean War going differently). This is no Franco-Prussian war, NGF are seen as an agressor.
>Britain is wary of any side getting too powerful and intercedes as a mediator
>Eventually a solution is found: SGF is hereby to adhere to strict neutrality and the Great Powers are to intervene should any country try to ally with them or invade them
>NGFand Austria are left with a sour taste in their mouth, as they've essentially been both cheated out of a part of Germany by France and the Tsardom
>They decide to put aside their rivalry and sign the Dual Alliance
>It also happens that both are already entangled with the Italians, so it eventually extends into the Triple Alliance, named Unholy Alliance by the detractors
>The settlement is arguably kinda terrible. SGF is now a powderkeg, split internally between Catholics and Protestants and German nationalists who blame the Papists for preventing the German unification.
>It sits right in the heart of Europe with both sides vying for influence in it. It's only a matter of time before it plunges the world into a war.
>As NGF is weaker than OTL Germany, Britain is less threatened by them. They could potentially join either side depending on the circumstances.

I miss Big Prussia.

>>89134357
It's not even ratified and you already miss it?

>>89134496
It was unratified before its time.
HAIL TO THE DANUBIAN EMPIRE

>>89134596
Ah, well that was big Austria, rather. The name, at least, can still be utilized for Austria-Hungary after they implement Trialism.

In the meantime, we seem to have agreed on using equipment tables, what else do we need decided rules-wise before a simple skirmish test can be done?

>>89128669
sounds badly written but okay.

>>89128166
your complaint doesn't really add up when we established several threads ago that several leader characters wouldn't be represented on tabletop but would be instead "sponsors" for your army. You'd have cheaper mercenaries and french/belgian units as well as a free laborer/slave unit if you picked Leopold II, for example.

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how would the seas and water play into Agartha?

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>>89135991
It is well established no one uses the water rules.
Even if Rakkad is based as hell.

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>>89134827
Between 1e and 2e, and my porridge brain when it comes to crafting rules I’m not sure. All I know is that I am fucking ready as my minis should coming in any day now.

>>89132529
Hell, the Anti-Pope could be secretly helping spread it himslef, it's just the open and aggressive replacement of "normal" Christianity that wouldn't make sense imo.

>>89135991
Lorewise there is an incredibly dangerous river that crosses between all the layers (possibility is also the frozen waterfall in Antarctica that leads to the first 1st?)
Oceans in the 3rd and 5th layers with the 9th layer being basically being all an arctic sea.
And a vast number of unmarked tunnels and underground rivers.

>>89135915
My problem is more with something like >>89120301 where it is literally just a list of original timeline US presidents than "reee no Leopold".
We should strive to be creative. That's it.

>>89136929
I didn't intend for that list to be definitively "this is who the presidents are," I meant it to give us a springboard for us to inject a bit of EAD into the history.
Personally, I like the idea of a Paraguayan vet becoming president.

>>89136929
you can have OTL presidents dealing with fantastical shit, literally Jules Verne and H.G. Wells has fantastical shit happening with the rest of the world going on as usual. You realize despite the french revolution and industrial revolution, the upper nobility remained relevant in nearly all of european society until the great war? Only big things affect the world in a big way. Maybe think on the fact that nobody mcliteralwho in a cave discovering cock mushrooms isn't going to change the world in a huge way, that small events can remain completely regional and irrelevant to geopolitics? not everything has to be some retarded Hearts of Iron 4 althistory timeline shift fanfiction.

>>89137477
Literally the very first jak was althistory. Seethe.

>>89137761
the first jak was a worker. Dilate you bandwagoning nigger.

>>89137477
Big things like Italy being ruled by Volcano Demigods or the Paraguayan War briefly turning into a zombie apocalypse/War of the Worlds?

>>89137786
The very first submitted jak. Better?

>>89128166
I mean, as long as it supports creativity, sure, otherwise name swapping alone doesn't add anything to the setting. If you have a fun story about how, say, John Wilkes Booth happens to become the 16th President, why the fuck not, but otherwise...

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>>89138088
>John Wilkes Booth happens to become the 16th President
> In an almost supernatural moment of prescience, the Founding Fathers recognized that reparation claims might become an issue and enshrined a "Necromonger Clause" into the Constitution.
YOU KEEP WHAT YOU KILL.

>>89128299
>>89128370
Would Grant still have been president?

>>89138259
I think it makes sense for Grant to get his third turn. In a shocking turn of events, none of the problems of his presidency were resolved by America punching out some rainbow monsters and it's a flop. Democrat war vet wins the next election.

>>89138259
His presidency started before t he most major changes so I'd say yes that's reasonable.

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>>89138175
>>89138088
this is more likely then you think. If Lincoln was never assassinated, he wouldn't become, through propaganda, lionized and a martyr for a whole ten decades in the socio-political zeitgeist. The information of all the damning actions and edicts, the sanctioned atrocities of sherman done to private citizens, authorizing the government to employ the draft, the imprisoning of 13k journalists, political opposition, and dissenters like Francis Key Howard in Fort McHenry. Add carpetbaggers, and now mayor hopeful John Wilkes Booth has a large and sympathetic voter base made up of ex-confederate veterans, disenfranchised southern landowners, and poor farmers who were victims of top-down governance.

>>89124061
>Some anons were also discussing looting, but to me it seems like it can lead to snowballing and doesn't really mesh with the feel of the game. Expeditions are sent to discover hidden artifacts, resources and knowledge, not steal weapons and armor from the dead. It could work as a unique special rule for a model though (iirc some rebels from the surface compass used looted stuff)
Honestly, that's fair. If we restrict it to specific models than it should be in the purview of units like rebels, guerillas, criminals etc. I proposed the Sharpshooter way back but he doesn't fit the profile and I'm fine if he can't loot. Besides, there were other proposed ways to get different gear if you want to abuse him.

>>89124061
I think looting shouldn't be gear, but actual treasure. Treasure during a full expedition (as opposed to a minor probe) is carried into the next battle and can be used to upgrade gear or afford more mercenaries. I'd imagine even tribals can buy some rifles (their leader and champion models would be the only ones to probably know how to use them) in exhcange for relics or treasure they've looted from New Mu, Atlantis and Lemuria.

>>89134072
Alternatively just have Germany form voluntarily while France is out of commission after the Fall and everyone is seething about Austria (maybe the Prussian deal for a joint invasion with Italy was secret), then have the Dual and Triple Alliance form over some Balkan nonsence as usual. There would probably be a rebellion in the south and a more literal Kulturkampf in the aftermath, but otherwise it's more or less same Germany without A-L .

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>>89138718
To be COMPLETELY fair. Lincon was also one of the biggest activists for rebuilding the south after the war. And one of the bigger reasons for the remaining divide between north and south is subsequent presidents neglecting the south's rebuilding.
While he did make this massive mess in the south, he did recognize it and want to fix it, hell, having Booth come in as the 17th after Lincon would make more sense, if Lincon doesn't die. And Abe gives him a cross-party show of support. (You could maybe say that the Kidnapping plot during the war never happened)
Abe never agreeing with the anti-abolitionist stance, but showing support for a southern leader that cares deeply about his homeland and it's restoration would be in line for him.

>>89139243
I like the idea that Germany has remained firmly "normal" in the setting. They don't want anything to do with that Agartha nonsense, they just want to be the supreme power on the continent and these nutty Italians, Russians, and Austrians are ruining everything.

>>89140569
>Some German citizens are so aggressively against Agarthan lore they're convinced foreigners are trying to trick them

>>89140574
I can just imagine the country getting kinda Oceania-y, lying to citizens about the existance of the world below, whilst covertly trying to profit off it.

>>89140569
In a parallel to real life and how Bismarck disregarded colonies? Yeah, fair enough, but we know how that ended up. They'd go down there eventually (like when they're a faction, if we get to that). But in the meantime I can see the government neglecting Agartha, with only private individuals participating in joint ventures with Austrians and Italians.

Standing up after going Prone does consume 1 AP like all Move actions right, right?

Anons, does anyone have the 2e anon's British units? I want to start working on the factions and their equipment tables.
Also we need to start building up the weapon/equipment lists, preferably by someone who's more /k/-savvy than me
>>89143286
Currently Standing up can only be done in the movement phase, it costs the same as moving through difficult terrain
It kinda costs 1 1AP, as you can't get up without taking a movement action (which costs 1 AP), but you also get to move

>>89143631
Should we consider making going Prone and getting up cost extra? Getting up, at least.

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Totally new to this, but after reading the introduction to the lore, I decided to make some art of Napoleon in his sunken city. I'm intrigued to say the least and might make more.

>>89140562
Alternatively,
>Hey, Abe
>Mhm?
>I just remembered something funny, about the war
>What is it, John?
>I was so dead-set on doing something to help the south, I almost kidnapped you from this very summer home.
>I'm sure I could box my way out of it
>They both laugh it off, pulling up another set of plans for rebuilding Atlanta

>>89143937
Neat stuff, anon!

>>89143763
I mean, it does cost extra
A prone model with 5 movement spends 1 AP to move.
It uses 2 movement points to get up and still has 3 movement points left to spend
I think making it a 1 AP action instead would penalize the player too much
>>89143937
Nice also welcome

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>>89143631
Here, will repost.
Apologies for not having put many hours this week on this, I'm off tomorrow so I should rectify it a bit.

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>>89143631
and here was the initial weapon's list proposal.
rather disappointed no one figured out where I stole the images from

>>89132234
>Draugr of the North Sea
>Ragnarok did not come for our kith and kin in the eye of heaven, not among aesir and jotnar was it fought, but by brother against brother. Christian against Pagan. The old ways lay with us here, on this isle blessed with nature and the mighty hand of the Aesir and Vanir together. Their warriors are few now, for few hold the old ways. But to all of us that did, I embark this rune so that when their god holds the minds of us all and when Saxon spades perturb our hallow barrows, the icy grip of Niflheim will slacken, the horns of Valhalla blown, and that the old rites be sung in our graves.

>Lord Cunningham proceeds to land in iceland and strip mine the entire island

>>89144234
>stole the images from
I just assume you're drawing everything yourself.
Good job, btw!

>>89145893
How do husks even happen? If it happened in Istanbul and it happened to Conquistadores in the Americas, clearly it's not some kind of isolated lost magyck of Agartha but some kind of reproducible effect.

>>89148335
Well, there's nobody alive in the Americas with that answer, so you'd have to ask the Ottomans. Given their current state, I doubt they would willingly answer that.

>>89148371
If I could get my shit together long enough to write, I would probably write some kind of story from the perspective of an Ambitious Evzone retelling that time the Ottomans came by his village to requisition "laborers" and promptly husked half the adult men in town as soon as they were away from prying eyes.

>>89148335
My headcanon was that it's similar to what Old Mu do to themselves. Husks are literally stripped of 'life' as a property. They are not dead, but not alive either, rather, the concept itself is no longer relevant. The difference is that Old Mu have more control and go further, to the point where they are not entirely 'of this world' etc. Given the theory that reality literally starts to break down as you go deeper until you supposedly find the End/Begining of the Loop and the Wish Granter, this reality-eroding force may simply be a phenomenon of Agartha, much like wind or gravity and when applied (im)properly can make a husk. But I didn't write them.
Speaking of Husks. What's the deal with Husked Ottomans? From what I understand, not all of them are Husks (and I don't mean Unhusked, I mean people in the same faction as the Husks) and mot all of Husks are mindless zombies, is that about right? Is the Last Sultan a sentient Husk himself?

>>89148335
Magyk? Good sir, I believe you mean An Agarthan Science. Do not pollute a place of scholarly debate and intuition with these oriental blitherings and charlatan’s theories.

>>89148335
Anon here who made the Husked Conquistador, I honestly just intended it as a sort of anomalous occurence that occurs to dead in the underground, but that was wayyyy back when things weren’t nearly this flushed out. Hence why I am open to more intelligent theories lmao. But generally, husked conquistadors are (supposedly) conquistadors who were the first surface dwellers to find the underground, not sure if the discussion about the spanish crown being aware of it and keeping it a state secret has been retconned or not.

>>89148451
We kept the discovery, the reasons as to why Spain ultimately didn't do much with it were left vague. Maybe the conquistadors just went in there independently and never made it back, taking the knowledge to their grave. Maybe the crown sent the expeditions, but the results were disastrous and Agartha was abandoned indefinitely. Maybe all the entrances were in the Americas and they kept it a secret so well, it kinda became forgotten after the colonies were lost, until they've found the one in the Pyrenees.

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>>89148416
>>89148451
>Descending layers results in a phenomenon not unlike peeling an onion, except it happens to your soul.
>You retain the core of your being, but as you ascend and the layers of yourself that you lost are returned, you begin to experience psychological aftershock as you re-integrate your lost "parts" known as Deep Drunkenness
>The Husking process was developed based on ancient Muic literature and artifacts dating back to the foundation of Old Mu.
>It was originally intended to pare down the self in order to allow for one to descend and ascend with impunity, but was largely considered barbaric even by Muic standards and was abandoned as more advanced sciences of self-reduction were developed.
>In certain Mu outposts, husks are still deployed as cheap labor, but this is seen as gauche and improper within Muic society as a whole. Even Outlanders are not defiled in this manner, save as a cost-cutting measure by the desperate.
>The same phenomena that the Husking process was designed to replicate, the paring of the self as one descends, is also the reason why many individuals within Agartha display more pronounced or exaggerated personality traits as they descend.
>More of the chaff is cut away. Only the truth of the self remains, there, in the deep.

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>>89148644
Ah, yes, the Beauchamp Onion Theory. The man should really just stick to the Lemurian Studies and let actual Agarthan Scientists figure out the kataphysics.

>>89148825
Beauchamp didn't even do most of the writing on the theory! He just presented it at the London university!

And the onion thing is just a metaphor!

>>89148644
LARP and jokes aside, I like this.

we need MORE crackpot in-universe theories

>>89148644
>>89148825
>>89149009
Weirdly enough, this would fit relatively well with Aristotle's theory of soul in De Anima. The process starts by removing your Divine Soul or severing it temporarily (deep drunkeness), affecting your psychological and conscious functions. Then it attacks your Animal Soul, removing your instinctual will and desire to eat and drink. Finally it attacks your Vegetable Soul by properly destroying your basic life function such as breathing and reproduction, leaving a desiccated Husk in your place.

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>>89115225
Would someone want to try their hand at making the mercs profiles? Even if it isn't all of them...

>>89149532
What do we have so far?
Gano-Ducksworth Loop Theory
Guadalupe Cordell's Concave Hollow Earth Theory
Vernian anti-Loop position seems to be more of an agnostic take, refusing to commit to grand theories without empirical proof, rather than a theory proper
The so-called Onion Theory by Beauchamp et al.
I think we might want to canonize the cyclical human-morlock-fish evolution as a separate theory. A. Rohm's Ichtyander Theory.

>>89149774
Speaking of, did we ever get a finished Morlock design? I remember one anon saying he was going to work on it.

>>89149966
>>89127438
This was the last one posted and, honestly, it looks fine.

>>89149727
>Serbian Rebel
>Inat - if you miss any target roll by 1, you can choose to make it a success at the cost of 1 Discipline
There is also another version in the spreadsheet for it.

Sorry I really haven't had time to put work into the 1e unit lists lately. Hope I can get back to it soon.
Been lurking when I can though. Still great stuff.

>>89149727
Other than what has been posted, do you have a relatively comprehensive document for the 2e rules? I could help out.

>>89144066
>john wilkes booth presidency is marred by infighting between Revanchist Nathan Bedford Forrest Klansmen and ex-13th regiment bandits hellbent on punishing the south simply for resisting reconstruction and carpetdouchebaggery

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>>89143937
here's some UNofficial art of what his undead soldiers would look like

>>89152608
> "Like my cabinet minister once said, a house divided against itself cannot stand"
>"We are all the same house, born from the same dream of liberty"
>"And so long as my beloved dixie remains in this nation, I will make certain it's given the support it deserves to bloom from the ashes of war"

>>89152641
>having Lincoln as cabinet minister creates a bad public image as the now released 13k political dissidents including journalists and mayors now spread the word on all the tyrannical shit dishonest abe pulled
>13 months in american bastiles gets published and put in the congressional library
>Wilkes serves only one term

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The Swan King
>An exile from his own kingdom, now ventures in Agartha
>Speaks little of all that he has seen, more is known about him from the tales of others
>Knows far more about the underground than even professional explorers
>Considered a “friend” in the court of Atlantis
>Dedicated to upholding the spirit of chivalry wherever he goes, will never break his word
>Famed for defending outlying villages from morlock hordes and bandits
>Inspires absolute loyalty in his followers
>Has vowed to one day return to the surface and reclaim his birthright

Wrote up another surface leader, loosely based him on Ludwig II. I intend for him to be a noble knight kind of character, almost as if he's walked out of legend itself.

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>>89151643
Only the rules png that I've made, I should start working on this. Here.

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>>89156025

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>>89156038

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>>89134827
A few Specialist profiles for the 4~5 "core" factions would probably be necessary. We don't need a whole bunch of them, just a couple per faction so that we can figure out at what complexity level we want to set them.
I think we could also come up with a few core scenarios besides "kill the other team" so that we can playtest the rhythm of a game that doesn't solely focus on combat.
Also we could take a moment and figure out how NPCs work. Say there's a Cavesaur on the map, how does it activate, does it have a "AI table", do the players alternate activating it, etc...

>>89156228
The original idea was to start with 2 basic/generalist factions, i.e. British for the colonials and Kingdom of Atlantis for undergrounders. Maybe Atlans could work, but they're very elite focused in comparison, sorry titbros

We need to determine the basic human profile before we start making models. Evasion of 0/0, 2 Health and 5s in all other stats could be the average for a human.
Stat of 5 - competent aka baseline, 6 - trained, 7 - expert, 8 - master, 4 - amateur, 3 - untrained, 2 - borderline incapable

>>89158893
>The original idea was to start with 2 basic/generalist factions
I'm talking about the current development cycle, I'm not exactly sure if it came out as the "1st armies to come out" or something else, but it ended up being French, Brits, Atlantis and Atlan plus Mercs to allow for customization.
>>89158893
>We need to determine the basic human profile before we start making models.
2e didn't follow the doc templates for stats initially as it was an answer to "how do attacks/damage works", which then got grafted on. Refer to >>89144181 for the latest version of the stat profiles in this development line.
> AP: 1 for Undead or very slow characters/2 for most everyone else/3+ Specialists & Leaders
> Movement : 3 on average, can go to 4 with terrain rules, 5 should be very rare.
> Skill : Depends on the training. 0 untrained, 1 military training, 2, veteran, 3 elite, 4+ you need an actual good reason because you are essentially hitting on a 2+ at this point.
> Strength : 0 is fine for most humans here, even soldiers, 1 for swole dudes, 2+ you should have a good reason.
> Discipline : for troops, 5-6 low, 7-8 good, 9-10 great.
> Evasion : Still haven't figured out too much what to do with it. If it goes as a modifier to the Defense roll, should be similar to skill, perhaps a bit lower.
> Labour : Not entirely sure yet, probably 0-1 for most troops. This will depend how vital Labour is to gameplay, and how many early threats there can be to Workers.
> Armour : Highly variable, but remember that AP pretty often modifies the Armour rating too. Not settled yet on if Armour rolls gets cancelled or not if it goes above 10+.
> Health : 2 unless you have a reason. Remember that with Wounds the way we have, a 2 box model has in fact "6" Scratches/Cut/Light wounds, and a 3 box model has "9".
Melee Weapons
> Skill Mod : from -5 to +5. Most unwieldy weapons should top at -2 or -3.
> Strength Mod : same as skill mod.
> Damage : 1-3.

>>89149727
I still say you need to give the Highland Rifleman the picture you have for the Malcolmite Rebel, then give the Malcolmite Rebel a picture with a claymore. HR ain't redcoats and MR are melee infantry.

>>89160761
>>89149727
Yeah I agree, most of the pics here are from like, the 1812 or 1830s era. This at least takes place in the 1870s and 1880s, technologically.

>>89156025
>>89156038
>>89156053
Sweet. I'll be busy until next weekend but when I get some time, I'll see if I can put some stuff together.

>>89143937
Fuckin' sick. We're in a bit of a slow patch with a few of the main posters getting busy, but welcome to the party my friend.

If you have any questions, I'll be around. 100 pages of lore doc is a lot, after all.

>>89160945
Not the anon who made it but a lot of those mercs would reasonably have pretty poor equipment, like arabs, balkan guerillas, north american trappers. Don't think its very farfetched for rebellious scots to be using Heirloom weapons, and since the malcomites were using claymores, it sounds like they are essentially just Jacobites in equipment.

>>89163601
jacobites used basket hilted swords and iron shields, and that was mainly for honor/tradition reasons then practicality. As for american trappers, alot used spencer carbines or springfield trapdoors. Even balkan guerillas had access to breech loaders, bolt actions and some artillery. As for arabs, that's too vague to nail down, but this is during a time when the Ottomans were relevant so you can bet alot of their satellites as well as neighbouring rivals at least had some arms in order to stay independent or survive incursion.

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>>89155601
Actually a very good idea given the current German lore. What would his allegiance be, though? France? Pope & co?
Also I made a Vulcan Lord for the Italians

Antonio Finzi, Vulcan Lord of Larderello, President and founder of the Italian Infernal Institute
>"Oh, no, no, it's just a reference Dante. I swear, we are a reputable institution for Agartha research!"
>His ascendance as the Vulcan Lord turned Larderello into an active volcano
>Develops cutting edge technology utilizing the anomalous volcanic activity and Agarthan phenomena
>Pioneered magmaulic engineering and revolutionized the use of geothermal energy
>The madman who came up with the magma surfing boards
>Banned from the French Academy of Agarthan Sciences for submitting an article on intentionally subjecting people to a huskifying anomaly
>Paulistas were very impressed, on the other hand
>Sent his agents on a failed heist to steal the sacred fire from the temple of Prometheus in Atlantis
>Putting the "fire' into firing his assistants
>Mind constantly buzzing with new ideas and the whispers from Below
>At this point, only Agarthan shrooms and hardest alchemical drugs from Atlantis can make the buzzing stop
He could be an Eiffel-like leader, making infernal machinery and using some kind of experimental flamethrower.
And speaking of Italian scientists, I wonder what Lombroso is doing now. Detecting Papists by their facial features?

Quick bump for the burger bros.

Yo, the current version of the rules is again geared towards rolling under. I'm absolutely okay with this. However, I recall people expressing desire for rolling over, so I feel like clarifying if we're all fine with roll-under at least for the edition currently in the works?

>>89165636
I'm pro roll-under because I'm the guy who made the change in the doc
In my mind the main benefit is that it makes it easier to measure how good a model's sheet is. With roll-under all fields follow the same rule of Bigger-is-Better - armor, movement, ap, skills, etc.

>>89165636
Having tried both, I ended up settling on roll under myself.

>>89164461
I intend The Swan King to be a more independent leader, a wandering knight who has several people tagging along. Possibly a non-corrupted (i.e not Napoleon) cross faction selection. Probably anti-German but a papist though, considering he was king of Bavaria. I want to rewrite him a little though, I feel his story should be a bit more tragic, though I'm not sure how, yet.

>>89167066
Him leading Bavaria in the South German revolt and failing would already be more tragic than real life. Maybe his quest is deep down a suicide attempt. Robbed of his kingdom, his people now opressed, with little hope of ever righting these wrongs, he throws himself selflessly at every noble cause he can find, secretly hoping that he can at least meet his end fighting for justice and to protect the innocent. Only if God is willing will he survive to see Bavaria free once more. I guess you could say that this is his... swan song.

>>89165636
Roll over for me. Where the hell is it switching to under from...?

What are Hyperborean memory engines? How do they work?

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>>89170331
Its a train, as in a locomotive engine, except it runs on the agonizing memories of captured souls. And it somehow manages to still be a better experience than an NYC subway ride.

>>89169722
>Where the hell is it switching to under from...?
It was like that from the very beginning when some anon posted the first rules draft

>>89170331
>>89170413
Basically this.
Its a siege train without a track, fuelled by the memories of captured souls instead of coal.

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So, since I'll eventually have a moment to work on an equipment list, some things to solidify.
> Digging
Last I check it was a d10 + Labour roll, success on flat 6+, walls have a Value that needs to be brought to 0 by lowering it by your success margin (so a 6 lowers by 1, 7 lowers by 2, etc).
Proposal for Pickaxe to be an (unwieldy but with good AP) melee weapon with special rule stating "A model equipped with this model succeeds a Digging (or Mining or whatever the name is in the end) on a roll of 4+".
> Building Trenches/Barricades
Proposal to have models that would normally be able to Dig also be able to do this action (if we decide to restrict it to workers or not).
Additional proposal to have Shovel works as a Pickaxe equivalent but for this Special action.
> Lighting Conditions
We discussed a while ago but I'm not sure if we landed on something on lighting conditions. If we did, please post it, I would like to work out Lanterns & Torches in a way that works against it.

>>89172811
I think we're about 50/50 on including lighting rules.

>>89172811
>We discussed a while ago but I'm not sure if we landed on something on lighting conditions
The general consensus is that we're shelving lighting for now, entirely. It is simply assumed that your Units are bringing effective light sources. Mostly because tracking it OTB is a nightmare.

We may come back to it later.

>>89173070
>>89173022
I was thinking
> You track Obscurity on a d10. It affects the whole map unless another scenario rule specifies something else. Many scenarios would not have it at all (Daylight conditions)
> Obscurity offers a bonus to Evasion
> Lights sources are mostly (almost exclusively) from Equipment such as Torches and Lanterns, and thus you track them with the model carrying them. They reduce Obscurity within a radius for everyone (even outside the radius).
We don't have to settle for this but it doesn't seem too much to track, right?

>>89173248
That doesn't seem that different from the previous proposed illumination rules.

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>>89115225
Very late for this, but this a new attempt at Italian lore in order to account for the updates on the docs. I am still keeping the count as a figure that could potentially be related to La Ombre, and I am purposefully trying not to namedrop. I am also slightly stepping on USA lore territory here but I think that all things considered this makes sense. As usual feedback is appreciated.

>>89174049
>Feedback is appreciated
Let's just get the initial "nice" out of the way right now.
Great stuff.

>>89135991
>>89136009
>>89136729
Here's a post from the last thread.
>>89081583

>>89174049
Good work, Tripbro.
Yeah, I've been thinking that Duosicilians warding off a crusade of literally everyone might be a bit unrealistic, so your version might be better.
Would Boccia, Morelli and Salvatti be alive by that point? Last time I looked them up I think they were much earlier figures and some of them died in the failed rebellions in like the 20s unless I'm mixing things up. I'd say have newer people ascend. And while we're on that topic, your thoughts on the current Vulcan Lord roster? Can we keep Volcano Garibaldi?
I still think we should actually let them unite Italy at this point. Italians in the central states just overthrow their monarchs and join by referendum and as for Piedmonte, I really liked Garibaldi doing the reverse Expedition of the Thousand in 1860. Paris could just sneakily seize Nice and Savoy, which would set up greater hostilities between them down the line but not take any further action given the absolute disaster that was the Crusade, then Paris falls shortly after and they are straight up a non-factor for years. Then they seize Lombardy-Veneto during the Austro-Prussian war, which is the Third Abomination War. The republic would not be alone, Prussia would always be their ally, officially or not. And some time later Austria-Hungary does their deal with them as per doc, resolving some of the Italian territorial claims further and setting things up for the Unholy Alliance.

>>89174548
like anons previously had said, the main appeal for Germany and Britain (as well as America and France to some extent) is that they'll be the straight man in all of this, clarity in all the confusion, sanity amidst the masses. If normies who don't like the more esoteric aspects of the under-societies, they can just be a colonial.

>>89174548
I mean, this version of the "Metternich solution" works well eough (though wouldn't he be not a prime minister and, more importantly, dead?), but then why the Three Sicilies and the Judicates? It also leaves the issue of Istria and Dalmatia hanging in the air, but I suppose it can be handwaved as the Italians are less likely to ally with the French in this timeline.
>>89174757
Austria is also sane, I don't know where the people are getting this idea that setting up an anti-pope over a political conflict with the Papacy now means they have to suddenly be satanists or whatever.
Prussia and Italy were natural allies, as both had a bone to pick with France and Austria, hence why Italy used both the Austro-Prussian war and the Franco-Prussian war to expand. It has nothing to do with Agartha.

>>89174049
OK, how about this
>51-53 - the Crusade/Second Abomination War is a complete disaster, Charles L.N.B. fails in his gamble and steps down
>58-60 - Third Abomination War, Austro-Sardinian coalition is defeated. France agrees not to intervene if the Sicilains let them have Savoy and Nice in the aftermath. Stromboli opens after the blood rite.
>61 - Fall of Paris. Many see this as a punishment for the French "betrayal of Christendom".
>63 - Lidenbrock expedition makes the existence of Agartha mainstream
>64 - Secret talks between the Republic and Prussia have them coordinate an attack on Austria. Austro-Prussian and Fourth Abomination Wars happen, Lombardy is reclaimed.
>65 - Dual Monarchy is established
>66 (come on it has to be 66) - The Betrayal at Venice. As it is now beyond the shadow of a doubt clear that the source of the newfound Sicilian power and wealth lies in the newly discovered realm of Agartha, Maximilian, ever sympathetic to his Italian subjects, gives up Venetia (that was getting increasingly unstable anyway) for the Stromboli access and the Italians formally giving up on Tyrol and anything east of Isonzo.
>66-67 - Crackdown on the disaffected Italian left-wing and liberal radicals by the moderates leads to a micro-civil war and the establishment of the "Revolutionary Tyranny"
I also like the idea that Bakunin was straight up an actual Italian politician lmao. I imagine he'd go into exile and write extensively on the implications of the existence of the supernatural sources of power for the future of anarchism.

>>89173070
>>89173248
Just have some extra dark tiles maybe and call it a day for now. Bonus to Evasion while in there, but malus to Strength/Skill unless you use some sort of item/ability/or you just have some form of darkvision. Can also apply to stuff like smokescreens the Alchemist can use.

>>89174548
>>89174757
>>89174814
>>89175436
Sorry for the mass reply, I will try to address all of your points.
I am not much concerned for named characters in a skirmish game. Vulcan Lords can stay who they are, but I still think Garibaldi is better off doing his thing with Lincoln. This could potentially make the Civil War shorter and more brutal, depending on the angle we want to push. I also kind of like the idea that a proper war never happens between Austria and Italy, which would make the Austrian concession look a bit more like an unfair bargain rather than a straight up admission of capitulation. I am also trying to mirror some of the historical circumstances of OTL, like in 1871 the relatively young kingdom of Italy was virtually alone because they had betrayed their one consistent ally (France) just to get a hold of Rome, and were thus forced to make a deal with their historical enemy instead. The fact that Austria does not lose men and money fighting a resurgent Italy might also in part explain how they are capable of their turnaround in 1870. I am also purposefully remaining vague as to which land is given by Austria to Italy: Lombardy and Veneto for sure, but what about Trieste, Trento, and so forth? We can always iron out the details later.
The kingdom would be of the Three Sicilies and of the Judicates because historically only Sicily and Sardinia were Kingdoms. The north used to be part of the HRE so no one could claim the title of king in there. We can just stick with Italy otherwise, but since the kingdom is called Three Sicilies elsewhere I tried to think of a reason it would remain that way.

Re: the civil war. Bakunin actually lived in Italy OTL, and exactly in the period in which we'd have the Italian civil war. If we want anarchists on the scene, I think including him is an opportunity we cannot pass up.

All in all I am open to changes. I am just not super sold on the idea of a war between Italy and Austria.

>>89176534
My point is that I think the Austrians kinda need to take at least one proper beating from Italy and lose to Prussia as decidedly as they did to entertain the idea of getting into a "deal with the Devil" kind of arrangement, and Paris is supposed to fall in the early 60s. Matbe have Sardinia stick by France, since Austria has barely done shit and are still their enemies. Then they lose the Third war by 1860, backroom deal for Nice and Savoy happens and Paris falls as "punishment". The Fourth War still happens, because why wouldn't they take the opportunity? But it's ultimately just one "proper" war.
United Kingdom of Italy and the Three Sicilies could work as a compromise title they had to take as part of the deal. Instead of referring to some ideal of Italy that stretches wherever Italians live, it refers to the geographical term and the medieval and Napoleonic kingdoms of Italy, that is, the northern part. By calling themselves that, they are basically signifying that they are giving up on the irredentism, for now.
Ultimately, while alt-his is fun and cool, I think we need to keep most countries somewhat recognizable. Italy and Austria-Hungary are recognizable and evocative. You won't need to recite a volume of lore to explain what Italy or Austria-Hungary are, just the important details. You will, however, if its the Three Sicilies and the Judicates, absolute KINO of a name and concept that it may be.
I can certainly see Garibaldi doing American stuff AND him never becoming a Volcano Lord, as it would probably require him to do something unsavory. My actual problem is that Volcano Garibaldi is an immortal demigod, so we can do all sorts of stuff with him later. Normal Garibaldi will fight in the Civil War and then die in the 80s. I suppose you could have Volcano Garibaldi fight in the Civil War, since he'll turn on Italy regardless, and maybe have him as a Leader, but should we let America have a Volcano Lord?

>>89176534
>>89176799
As for the deal. The deal in the doc has the Italians bargain from a position of strength. It's not a betrayal of anything, it's the triumph of Italy at that point. The actual betrayal is the reactionary turn, which is a betrayal enough and doesn't really need much justification beyond the Lords being power-hungry dicks and the radicals becoming a nuisance for them, as you suggest, and we can always count on both.
If you want the deal itself to be seen as a betrayal too, the Austrians also need to get something out of it. Not just Stromboli, but something that would really piss off the patriots. Like the clear guarantees that all the Italians in Tyrol and beyond the Adriatic aren't real and don't count, which was a huge point of contention up to the WWI and one of the main reasons the Triple Alliance flopped, as far as I'm aware. Like it was also named the Fourth War of Independence for that reason, no?
Either of the options this conflict at least partially, either in favor of Italy or in favor of Austria, the only difference being that in the latter case the Lords are seen as more traitorous, basically laying in bed with the enemy to secure their power.

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Here's a meme rendition of the updated Royal Magma Rider.

Almost done a small 'nameless' support character roster, please bare with me.

>>89180791
Like medics and engineers?

>>89181424
Rather more like unique Specialists.

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>>89181424
Here.
>>89160761
Will fix and post later tonight, been up working since 5am this morning, I'll also go back the threads to see what was suggested to add to the Merc profiles.

>>89174049
>Ferdinand I
>who had been forced for the third time in his life to seek refuge in Sicily
This seems leftover by accident from the earlier version. By 48 it should be Ferdinand II and it would certainly be his first. Not to mention that Sicily itself would likely be in revolt by the time he'd be running anywhere.
Now, you clearly know more about the subject, but wouldn't Mazzini be absolutely disillusioned with the Sicilians by the time of the civil war? I don't think he'd like their militant atheism, let alone them reverting to monarchism. Also
>moderate anarchists
You what mate. I think the moderate left-wing of this Italy would just be socialist reformers. And after monarchy is reestablished the only dialogue between the anarchists or other left-wing radicals and the regime would be one of bombings and volcano diving lessons.

>>89181834
Interesting ideas, would be fun to play around with.

>>89179780
Bro why would he be wearing so much!?
Its HOT out there at the volcano! Heat stroke is a real thing!
Also, based.

>>89183464
It's asbestos.

>>89183554
Bro that's an insolating material! The fiery Italian heart will have nowhere to vent!
That man will be fried in no time in that thing!

>>89183673
That heat is converted into energy for radical moves.

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>>89183745

>>89183745
>radical moves
>there were radicals in italy
>mfw radical becomes a slang term in italy about a century early

>>89184067
>And its a slang term for their SICK SURFBOARD FLIPS

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Here, please suggest some more special rules for the profiles without any.
Cultural pride prevents me from being able to produce a Belgian or Polish profile that doesn't represent them as crap, and as much as I love this setting, nothing will be capable of making me bend on this point. Feel free to modify the profiles yourselves and repost them, I'll save them and mentally block the abomination from my mind.
Next will be the Modern Major General as a Brit Leader.
Who should I put on the Docket for the first Atlantean Leader?

>>89184601
Wish I could contribute more on this side of things, but I'm way out of my depth for history of this era.

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>>89184601
Looks dope so far.

>>89184638
>history
Even if you don't have an idea that's based in historical shit, don't hesitate to post it. Especially for the troop profiles with no special rules, if you have something to suggest, I'm trying to have them at 1 "set" special rule and one "unique" special rule (so something like weapon training or preferred terrain [x] and whatever rule you can come up with) as a limit for now.
It really doesn't have to be high-impact at all. There are a *lot* of troop profiles per faction for a wargame in this development stage so it really won't hurt to give them some small degree of characterization each.

>>89184601
I had some special rules suggested the last thread, but I had no feedback on them so I don't think they were what you guys were looking for.

>>89184882
Repost them, can't hurt.

>>89184882
Last thread we had a lot of main anons being busy with outside things so we might have just missed it.

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>>89185085
>Some ideas for the Kentuckian Rebel

>A Lost Cause: This Mercenary cannot be Panicked and counts as Shaken. It is still removed from play when Dread triples it’s discipline.

>The South Rises Again: Maybe it’s stubborn grit, maybe it’s dark “Injun” magic. For what ever reason, when this Mercenary suffers an Injury past a wound, it’s final Wound is reduced to a hit.

>Water of Life: This mercenary can spend its entire turn drinking from their whiskey flask. If it does so, the unit can reduce one of its injuries by one degree (Wound to Hit, Hit to Graze) It however takes a penalty to all shooting actions next turn.

>Arab Mercenary

>Whirling Dervish: This Mercenary gains +1 bonus to Evasion for every consecutive turn spent attacking in melee. If a turn spent without attacking in melee, the bonus is lost.

>Knight of Brittania

>”It’s a hobby really”: All talk and no walk, this Mercenary gains +2 Dread if not within X hexes of a Leader or Hero. (To represent their LARPing tendencies)


I forgot we had some discussion over the Trapper and the role of Builders, and hybrid units, so there was some discussion.

>>89185176
Abilities that interact with Wound severity seem particularly easy to both stick flavour onto, and balance, for sure. Same for Dread levels.

>>89184882
Please repost.
This goes as well for anyone who made a suggestion, if you didn't get an answer it may well be because we were away for a moment and missed it in coming back.
>>89185176
The only thing with the Kentuckian Rebel is that I'm trying not to have too many Unique Special Rules per profile. Would you be happy with only one of these, maybe two at most, and which ones do you prefer? A Lost Cause and The South Rises again are pretty good, Water of Life seems pretty meh (too much AP cost)
>>”It’s a hobby really”
I really like that.

>>89185176
>>”It’s a hobby really”: All talk and no walk, this Mercenary gains +2 Dread if not within X hexes of a Leader or Hero. (To represent their LARPing tendencies)
For clarity purposes, I think just making their base Morale quite low, but giving a +2 bonus while near a hero unit, might be easier to track. Might not tug at the same game feel though.

>>89185307
Yeah even if you want to keep it as a clear "malus" it can simply be "-2 to Discipline if you are not within [x] of a Leader/Hero".
I remember a blurb from the early days saying Lady Genevievre of Cornwall doesn't really buff the Knights despite being their dedicated character so that's kind of a way to go around it.

>>89185287
Oh most definitely, I just threw ideas at the wall. I wasn't expecting all the rules to be used. Any you feel would be the most fun/representative of the setting.

>>89185307
Oh yeah, I'm a bit clumsy with my wording, but if it makes it easier to read or use by all means.

>>89185176
>>89185287
A Lost Cause could also go to the Malcolmite Rebel, his jak mentions already being broken inside

>>89185460
>A Lost Cause could also go to the Malcolmite Rebel,
Good point, and bad morale resistance fits quite well with the unit's aesthetic.

>>89184601
Polish Partisan should have a war scythe as an optional weapon.
>For Our Freedom and Yours - For every unit within 2 hexes of him, the Partisan gets +1 Discipline, up to +3. The bonus is shared with those units as well.

>>89186656
Though it might be too similar to Vrijkorps. Maybe just have him share his Evasion bonus or something?

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>tfw the princess will never penetrate you with her titanium stiletto

>>89188616
Yeah, cause I'll die of old age by the time the bitch gets to me lmao

2ebro, do you think you could do some quick work solidifying two factions only so we could get a vertical slice to play?

>>89190553
At this point I think we only really need weapons to get the ones posted to play, right, + Leaders for Brits and Atlantis? I can work on that tonight, it'll be posted late tho (in ~12h) as I am getting ready to go to work now.

>>89190886
If you need any help filling something out, hit me up. I might be able to put together a PDF of the "2e" rules if needed.

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>>89184601
>Ambitious Evzone
>Hates: Ottomans, Husks
>Revolutionary: This unit gains +1 Skill/Strength and +2 Discipline when fighting Royalist units

>Highland Rifleman
>Add 1 Strength
>Rough Terrain Affinity: This unit gains +1 Evasion and +1 Skill when standing on or moving through Rough terrain
>Highlander: This unit does not spend extra movement to move through Rough terrain

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>>89179780

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I've decided that I am going to make a British force. The general and seargant and privates will come from Perry Bros, but I want to scratchbuild my own traction engine. Here's the current plan I have worked up, it was a little smaller than a chimera chassis when I patched it out on paper.

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>>89193360
holy fuck
we actually don't stand a chance

>>89193595
Fucking nice

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I want to thunder mole with the heiress!

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>>89196463
why must these things exist
they cause only pain
and not the good kind

2e anon reporting, finally done with my work shift, I'll go cook myself something up, walk the cat around the block and then start working on a weapon list. Shouldn't be too long, I already have written down most stuff on a notepad.
While I'm here, anyone could help with melee weapons for colonials? Besides sabres and bayonet what should I do a profile on?

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>>89196977
Here we go.

>>89196977
Probably Throwing Spears/Axes for the tribal auxiliaries.

>>89197848
Damn I forgot to add these. thanks!

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>>89197912
Here (I assumed that Zulu warriors use different spears for throwing and melee, I'm not sure if its not the case its an easy fix.

>>89197990
So do shields give Evasion for now, or do we have a shield mechanic?

>>89198217
We seemed to be mixed on it, one person suggested evasion, another just a straight armor buff to certain body areas, the other was discarding a critical result. It seems to be in volatile state.

>>89198232
Straight evasion kinda reduces shields to a buff item (though it does work ultimately) and messes with the concept of heavier units, i.e. Atlan.
Zonal armor buff is simple enough and downgrading crits works. Adjusting the success table, so that it becomes harder to hit body and head/vitals could also work. I.e. small shiled makes it +1, medium +2 and heavy/tower + 3. If you were hitting the head on 6+, it becomes 7+, 8+ and 9+. Reverse Backstab on self, essentially.

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>>89198217
I figured for now I'd put them at least as a secondary weapon that provides better evasion mods to defend with.
Also here's for a Brit Leader. Didn't really know what to do with it since he doesn't really have an entry in the unit doc, so feedback is appreciated. I didn't want him to be a straight unit buffer since that's what the sargent major is for.

>>89198359
>Adjusting the success table, so that it becomes harder to hit body and head/vitals could also work.
That's already done by having the Shield provide an Evasion buff tho. I do think there should be something more to them like an local armor buff.

>>89198393
Ah shit, you're right. Well, beats me then. What if it gives an extra Armor roll based on the shield itself as opposed to flat overall increase?

>>89198424
Yeah, maybe as a "invulnerable" save, it would make mechanical sense since its going to be pretty rare to roll your save as listed on your profile, there's a lot of armour save modifiers, to the point where even Atlan will be often saving on 5+ instead if the intended 2~3+.

>>89198380
I like this concept of a Leader who can fill non-Leader roles like this. Also, does 2e use Skill for all attack rolls, melee and ranged? What does Strength do specifically then?

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The thread is on page 9? What a load of good-for-nothing braggarts! BUMPING IN THE NAME OF THE QUEEN!

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>>89199547
YOU BRAVE BEAUTIFUL FOOL. THE THREAD AUTOSAGES AFTER 1 WEEK.

We almost hit the limit anyway.

>>89199712
Should we make a new thread?
A rewrite of the subject might also be in order: we now have 3 versions of the ruleset (1e - finished, 2e and 4e doc in progress by different anons), this should probably be mentioned

>>89199735
Might as well. Also might want to amend the date, as it's more clearly 70-80s now.

>>89199759
ok, give me like half an hour

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what are the Australians and Ned Kelly doing during all this? would it be an in-joke that literally nothing happens and they surprisingly carry on as if nothing happened?

>>89199848
A good chunk of Australians and Kiwis are likely deployed in British-occupied ex-Dutch East Indies. We don't have much on Kelly, but there are many things we could do with him, like him hiding in Agartha and/or becoming a Lemurian or Mu proxy.

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NEW THREAD
>>89200203
>>89200203
>>89200203

>>89116148
Hey, I tried reading some of your previous posts in the /tg archive, but it didn't work. Could you post them again? Maybe we can find a place to put them on the lore doc aswell

>>89116148
wait sorry, didn't realize there was a new thread. Could you post it there?