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>TL;DR Doc (WIP) This needs a bit more fleshing out
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LxdaGoBlJRTMuziMDupG5TeeFwNDnsIW2pfaRAcFDgA
> Lore Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bRrxdD1BMLmcMDFeszwqg2Rcjrt8DDo7tjAxoOB6KQ8
> Rules Doc
https://docs.google.com/document/d/14ZpHhEyUbjt-SCx2xuAd0lyh7Rs4J7rK5kHkljqykhk/
> Unit Spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1rcleQtrT4Q0INiBW50-kq2ZXWJ-cjLOeVTLTJg_oX5E

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The original compass, the one that started it all.

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REJECT MODERNITY
EMBRACE GORG

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>>89025911
The surface compass, the middle child.
>>89025917
I waited around for you before I started this, you know.

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>>89025926
And the underworld compass, the final one we made.

>>89025947
How could we have forgotten about Leg Fish, Jump Man's lovable sidekick!

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>>89025976
His what?

>>89026293
His lovable sidedish.

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>>89026293
>>89026306
>His lovable sidedish.
leg fish..

... no....

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Epigean scum!
Let me be the first to congratulate you on being seen in a prophecy!
Congratulations!

The prophecies demand that you die!

>>89026376
Oh, this is a good one, portraitanon.

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WHO'S NEXT?!

>>89026376
Honestly? The armor is a little too aquatic for my taste, more fish than dragon. And I would prefer his face was seen.

>>89026450
>more fish than dragon.
Eastern dragons to be strange.
I'lll probably do more passes over the ones I'm not fond of after. Or some time soon.

>>89026449
TALL FIN LETS GOOOOOO

>>89026376
Love it, but wouldnt that fit the Tall-Fin much better? Lemurians are mostly humanoid-ish (accounting for cultivation).

>>89026469
Ah, I can see what you were going for now! Still can't shake it, it's probably the eyes and teeth.

>>89026523
Its armour.

>>89026528
I'll keep it in mind if I get the time to go back to it. Don't disagree with the final result being a bit aquatic, but also am trying to clearly differentiate each faction's aesthetic.
Lemuria is distinctly central asian mysticism, which has... quite the aesthetic to it.

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Updated for feedback.

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>>89026740
Now we're talking!

>>89026740
A lot less fish, a lot more snake. Looks good.

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>>89025947
>Mu civil war scenario
>Me and my buddy are playing the two Mus fighting
>I'm old Mu
>Field Empress with the standard Revenant tarpit
>Mu Magi swarm to back it up
>Wait for my buddy to show off his army
>He's brought an actual plastic tub of models
>reaches inside the foam lining
>He pulls out the Tallfin
>Knew this would happen, build my army specifically to kill Morlock swarms
>He pulls out two Mad Shamans
>An apprentice
>Finishes it off with a Condottieri honor gaurd
>Half his tub is still full
>I look inside
>It's all fucking Morlock grunts
>jesusfuck.stonetablet
>Going well so far into the battle, the Empress' massive AOE attacks are dropping Morlocks left and right
>Revenants shred any who manage to get through
>Confident I'll win
>Roll a Temporal collapse on one of the Mu Mages
>Shit
>Get an 8
>Okay that isn't too--
> +2 because of the Empress' passive
> "Stay the hand of Chronos, Every dead unit is revived on the spot where they died"
>Watch in horror as 20+ turns worth of Morlock summons stand up in front of the Revenants
>There's so fucking many
>MFW what's normally the best result from a temporal collapse lost me an entire campaign.
How is this shit tourney viable.

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>>89026847
>It's all fucking Morlock grunts
we've all been there man

>>89026847
Well, that's just RNG at the end of the day, could've fucked him over too. When cunts field their morlock hordes with a Tallyman, however, killing them IRL should be considered an act of self-defence.

>>89026847
bro just play Pearlescent Princess, she literally one-shots unlimited numbers of Morlocks every turn.

>>89026982
>basic synergy is worthy of execution
So I guess you weren't playing during the Traction Engine drifting days of yore

>>89026982
He has a tallyman model just for Tourney play
I've watched him almost get into actual physical fights whenever he activates the bonus on that thing lategame.
>Watching the Tallyman gain 20 HP, Two attacks, and armor comparable to the fucking golem in one turn
At the very least it makes the fuckers who play hyperborea seethe.

>>89027002
It was Mu civil war, so old mu vs new mu units.

>>89027002
>one-shots unlimited numbers
true
>every turn
please reread her abilities. she's not an area denial specialist, she just gets to delete whatever unit she can get close to. massed morlocks chucking rocks at her will still get her before she can turn them all into paste.

>>89027021
>It was Mu civil war, so old mu vs new mu units.
well there's your problem
play real formats, not Morlock meme formats

>>89027041
>massed morlocks chucking rocks at her will still get her before she can turn them all into paste.
bro that's what the immortals are for

>>89027051
Hey, it was a decent campaign while it lasted. I'm just shocked that he gets far in tourneys with a complete meme build like that.

>>89027019
The problem is not synergy, it's the balance of said synergy. The Tallyman works as intended with NORMAL Mu armies, NOT full-on morlock spam.

>>89027082
Morlock spam Tallyman wasn't something they tested for, methinks. Doesn't help that it really isn't something that jumps to mind when you think about a good Tallyman setup, given how it leaves him open to screw-ups.

>>89027237
>Morlock spam Tallyman wasn't something they tested for,
did they test for ANYTHING in this god forsaken system?

>>89027824
I've heard they've actually designed a test to specifically see if Morlock spam was SUFFICIENTLY bullshit with various strats.

>>89027843
Yeah there was an internal memo leak a while back that referred to the "Morlock Test" but its not exactly that.

It was testing to see if a new addition was WORSE than MoreLocks, not whether MoreLocks was sufficiently bullshit.

Goodnight bump.
Working on a play to start playtesting "1e" currently but need to finish full unit lists first.

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>>89029298
DELET.

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>>89029048
Looking forward to it anon!

It’s funny, considering the Morlock hate in this thread; my friend wanted to play a Morlock heavy New Mu expedition.

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Some anon added Evasion characteristic to the rule doc that replaces melee/ranged attacker skill as a target number for attack rolls.
Honestly, not a fan - this completely removes the need for melee/ranged skills of individual models. With this all models are equally skilled, which doesn't make sense considering the range of characters we have.
Without removing it, it would work better as a flat modifier, maybe two different ones for melee/ranged.

>>89030351
>removes the need for melee/ranged skills of individual models.
Does it? You roll weapon dice, add Strength/Skill and other mods against Evasion. That's how it was in at least one of the drafts, I think. It's just that Evasion is used pretty much everywhere in unit brainstorming. So remove it or not, some things will need to be revised.

>>89030398
>add Strength/Skill and other mods against Evasion
I see, it's in the Profile section, but not in the Combat section. I'll add it to avoid confusion

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Like here. I think the problem is that we have been basing stuff on different proposals. Because some don't use Evasion and use location damage, whereas this one doesn't, etc.

>>89030478
Yes one is 1st edition and the other is 2nd edition.
Both will likely be playtested. We'll rejigger what works best from each together for 3e.
Then refine 3e for the official 4e release.

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so, say the lore gets to the early 1900s. How would the setting handle things like the russo-japanese war and other conflicts between the colonial powers? would we want colonial va colonial options to be a thing?

>>89031493
It's really a question of how much we want the setting to affect history, if we ever end up going that far. Will it go full alt-history, with events completely disconnected from our reality, or should it largely follow history's contours but with an Agarthan twist? In my mind, the Papal Crusade to retake Rome is equally as cool as an Eight-Nation alliance to crush Mu-aligned China. Or, as always, we can have our cake and eat it too and do both.

>>89031493
Given how it started as a XIX century thing, I think the games should ideally end at the turn of the century. Some kind of apocalyptic scenario with full-on global Hyperborean invasion, Nappy's, Mu's and Lemuria's endgames, basically wrapping everything up etc.
But I think, if the project survives that far, maybe we'll make full-on large scale wargame rules for '80s-'90s eventually, to simulate actual wars.

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>>89031657
making this alt-history honestly takes away from the central theme and focus, not to mention entire point, of the initial premise. Why even give a hell about what's underground if we make what's above just as outlandish? I just think the idea that most of the above world has no idea and massive historical events may happen underground that would go completely unnoticed topside. Kind of eldritch in that sense, that none who are unitiated and remain ignorant have to worry about the madness. The ones who are genuinely interested are the best and brightest or the greediest and ambitious. Neither wants this to be made public knowledge for differing reasons.

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>>89031755
Underworld War One would be pretty batshit. I could imagine both sides would ban gas because of the possibility of choking out the entirety of the cave system's air supply.

Repostan'
Who next? Considering Gog & Magog as it was suggested.

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Actually repostin', with the updated Vrit.

>>89034274
Either them or Hyas.

>>89034303
Any ideas for Hyas's visuals?

>>89031493
Lore already have colonial vs colonial war as a thing, and big battles in general, it's just not the focus of the game since it happen on another scale.

>>89034314
Well, his jak basically. Eyepatch, scar across the face, neat beard, bronze-colored scalemail and helmet, blue cloak with an ornate pin.

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Any complaints about me rolling all surface factions into just generic "Epigeans" for 1st edition?

>>89035611
Depends how many surface units to you have for 1e at this point.
If that's the entire list then yeah it works.

>>89035701
The factions are very fucking small for 1e. This is the entire list currently.

>>89035611
Ah, yes, the Unholy Alliance of 1869, when the British and the Italian forces were pinned down by Mu in the Morlock infested tunnels of Mount Qaf, and Francesco I briefly took command of the British forces after the death of their own leader.

>>89035937
>British and Sicilian alliance
Simply disgusting. That's why our good republic can never totaly trust those schemings bongs.

>>89035963
>The Stromboli-Snaefelljokul Axis

>Brits: Dangerous expeditions into the underground to keep Queen and Country safe from the horrible threats plotting our downfall
>America: Shooting eldritch abominations in the name of fun and profit

>>89036209
>America: Shooting eldritch abominations in the name of fun and profit
Don't forget the bragging rights!

burgers wwa?

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>>89035728
I think that works perfectly fine then! Small bite sized factions for play testing. Allowing us to actually focus on the mechanics without getting bogged down by worrying about options.

>>89037465
Give it 2-3 more hours most of us are at work right now and I'm working on taking the info we have so far and trying to think about what past civilizations knew about the Underground and how that plays in.
Like we know the surface world knew of these civilizations with they were still on the surface but how many discovered something below.

So far the most prominent one is Egypt as if I recall there was a proposal that the break between the Napoleon of our history and the games history was that during the Egypt Campaign he discovered something underneath the Pyramids which led to a background obsession with the Deep.
It could be hieroglyphs about Agartha or perhaps a map or artifacts, hell it could of been a sealed entrance, something he could keep from others at the very least. Something that is fine to keep vague.

Another is the Conquistadors stumbling their way down below and becoming husked which makes me think of some connection to the Ottomans, either coming across the same source of knowledge or like a random survivor ended up in Ottoman territory especially because none of the other factions seem to interact with the husking process that much.
On that same note their was talk of the Mayans also knowing about it and inspiring/ being a part of Atlan but I could have misunderstood that or it could not been been ratified.

I'm trying to think of other civilizations that have interacted with the deep so ideas are welcome.

>>89035611
Meh, I'm not for it or against it atm. Might lead to design issue later but then again what wont?
Question, are you running Leadership as LP and if so do they replenish each turns?

>>89037774
>Question, are you running Leadership as LP and if so do they replenish each turns?
Non-replenishing currently but everything in this edition is literally just for testing.

>>89037774
>>89037851
Also, am considering leaders spending Actions to recover LP.

>>89037851
I really like that, I dont know why I automatically assumed it'd be kinda like Warmachine, but having it non-replenishing opens up a lot of design space too.

>>89037889
I prefer non-replenishing as it shifts the gameplay from turn-wise simple tactics to game-wide strategy. Consequences for mistakes become more interesting.

I really don't see any merit to have it regenerate freely. Movement and attacks already (AP) already covers that turn-wise tactical landscape. No need to lump another tactical, non-strategic mechanic on top. Literally redundant.

>>89037919
I second this.

>>89037919
Thirding plus it opens up more design space by allowing leadership recovery as a more ability specific bonus

>>89038132
>>89037956
>>89037919
I should be able to whip up a 2e leader roster tonight then, fair warning it'll be late tho.

>>89038160
Not a worry, don't get stressed about it and burn yourself out. Every effort is appreciated, even leaders for two factions would get us into playtesting.
Threads may be slow, but they keep healthy and I'm sure every one of us here is happy to make a new one if we pop in and see it dies overnight or something.

>>89031771
It was literally alt-history from the very first wojak. If you weren't interested in alt-history, why did you start posting in the alt-history thread?

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>>89031771
>making this alt-history honestly takes away from the central theme and focus
the focus of a game set in an 1870s retro futurist alternate history?

>>89031657
>Will it go full alt-history, with events completely disconnected from our reality, or should it largely follow history's contours but with an Agarthan twist?
There is a waterfall of siege trains made from spectral agony over Antarctica, the Ottoman Empire consists largely of islamo-necromancers, and samurais are riding dinosaurs.
I suspect the game's lore may not contour to history with perfect accuracy.

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God, the need to pick up minis before even knowing rules is just nibbling at the back of my head.

Hell I have a shopping carts with Brits, Black Watch, Zulu and Gorgs ready to go.

>>89039027
REMINDER to decorate / colour the bases of each of your duplicate minis differently.
Helps tell them apart.

Who will be the first anon to have a legal army of minis for this made up game? Taking bets now.

>>89039079
We already have one who's kitbashing minis.
Its kino.

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>>89039094
I've taken a bit of a break since I didnt want to force an aesthetic or faction.
I mean I got enough minis to field at least a Knight of Britannia force. Oh I have an old whfb pewter giant that might work as a "Cyclop" too.
We haven't really explored any kitbashing angle with this yet.

>>89039403
Mind if I inquire what you're using to kitbash?
Just regular old glue 'em together? Any pins?

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>>89039403

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>>89039405
Bits are whfb skeletons I inherited from a friend who didnt want them anymore, tyranids plates for the beaks, Lannister troops for the base. All just glued together. I started doing these years ago and lost interest.

We should also start considering a thorough edit and cleanup of the main lore doc.

>>89037735
>On that same note their was talk of the Mayans also knowing about it and inspiring/ being a part of Atlan but I could have misunderstood that or it could not been been ratified.
I imagine there could have been some sort of Book of Mormon-tier secret advanced civilization of Atlanteans/proto-Atlans there before Atlantis fell, with most traces of it destroyed by Hyperboreans. I'm not well-versed in Mesoamerica, but I think the Olmecs are the region's designated mysterious precursors.

>>89040716
The idea of making the Olmecs into the descendants of an Atlantean colony would be neat.
And would give some fun ties into Mesoamerican folklore and religion.

Sorry for the slowposting, busy week for me.

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>>89039068
That’s a good idea! I remember I tried writing the names of my dudes on the base rim. It did not turn out well.

>>89041717
My go-tos are
>Gray rocks
>Brown dirt
>Green grass
>Blue water (river)
>Flowers

Its an old wargame trick for managing units too.
Three units with grass, three with stones, three with dirt, then you can make a leader with grass, stones AND dirt on it to signify its the leader of those three groups.

>>89039985
I think we should put the unit section into a separate doc at this point.

>>89041778
>I think we should put the unit section into a separate doc at this point.
We have the spreadsheet but without updates it will need statblock updates to match the final design we figure out. That said, it does have raw unit list tabs that work fine for that job.

>>89041778
I agree. It's taking up a lot of space on the lore doc, which should be for background lore and setting adjacent stuff, not unit specs/fluff.

>>89041861
Do you think the bulk unit list tabs in the Units spreadsheet are sufficient? Or should we do a separate doc?

>>89041967
I don't think so, if you look at the lore doc some units have several lines dedicated to them, while the unit spreadsheet isn't big enough for all those. Besides, I think the unit spreadsheet should be the bare basics, while the units on the lore doc are more an area for working things out and explaining the full scope of the unit.

bump

>>89041778
>>89041861
>>89041967
Make a unit lore doc, link it in the lore doc. Sounds like a simple fix.

>>89046537
>Make a unit lore doc, link it in the lore doc. Sounds like a simple fix.
I don't use drive. I'll contribute if someone can whip up the doc.
I'm also planning a larger edit of the units doc too if nobody takes offence to that.

>>89046537
done, should be editable by all, link is in the doc section and here:
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n0X89OdMPXJKQGm6kYcOABjhjE4NZER1fvmpDmDX1JA

2e anon here, sorry, I tried getting a Minister Eiffel profile up, but I won't be able to before having to start work today, I'll be posted at some point tonight.

I HAD THE SANCTUARIES OF THE LAND ELAM UTTERLY DESTROYED AND I COUNTED ITS GODS AND ITS GODDESSES AS GHOSTS I DESTROYED AND DEVASTATED THE TOMBS OF THEIR EARLIER AND LATER KINGS I TOOK THEIR BONES TO ASSYRIA I PREVENTED THEIR GHOSTS FROM SLEEPING AND DEPRIVED THEM OF FUNERARY-OFFERINGS AND LIBATIONS ON A MARCH OF ONE MONTH AND TWENTY-FIVE DAYS I DEVASTATED THE DISTRICTS OF THE LAND ELAM AND SCATTERED SALT AND CRESS OVER THEM AS FOR THE REST OF THE PEOPLE THOSE STILL ALIVE I MYSELF NOW LAID FLAT THOSE PEOPLE THERE AS A FUNERARY-OFFERING I FED THEIR DISMEMBERED FLESH TO DOGS PIGS VULTURES EAGLES BIRDS OF THE HEAVENS AND FISH OF THE APSU THE NOBLES AND ELDERS OF THE CITY CAME OUT TO ME TO SAVE THEIR LIVES THEY SEIZED MY FEET AND SAID IF IT PLEASES YOU KILL IF IT PLEASES YOU SPARE IF IT PLEASES YOU DO WHAT YOU WILL IN STRIFE AND CONFLICT I BESIEGED AND CONQUERED THE CITY I FELLED 3000 OF THEIR FIGHTING MEN WITH THE SWORD I CAPTURED MANY TROOPS ALIVE I CUT OFF OF SOME THEIR ARMS AND HANDS I CUT OFF OF OTHERS THEIR NOSES EARS AND EXTREMITIES I GOUGED OUT THE EYES OF MANY TROOPS I MADE ONE PILE OF THE LIVING AND ONE OF HEADS I HUNG THEIR HEADS ON TREES AROUND THE CITY I FELLED 50 OF THEIR FIGHTING MEN WITH THE SWORD BURNT 200 CAPTIVES FROM THEM AND DEFEATED IN A BATTLE ON THE PLAIN 332 TROOPS WITH THEIR BLOOD I DYED THE MOUNTAIN RED LIKE RED WOOL AND THE REST OF THEM THE RAVINES AND TORRENTS OF THE MOUNTAIN SWALLOWED I CARRIED OFF CAPTIVES AND POSSESSIONS FROM THEM... UPON THE PILE I FLAYED MANY RIGHT THROUGH MY LAND AND DRAPED THEIR SKINS OVER THE WALLS

Will begin working in the Unit doc now! Cheers lads.

>>89047824
>Assur was some literally who deity with no geneology before the Assyrians conquered everything
>Ishtar was a goddess of sex AND warfare
>Tower of Babel
>Fucking this
All of this reeks of Hyperborea.

>>89047442
>2e anon here, sorry, I tried getting a Minister Eiffel profile up, but I won't be able to before having to start work today, I'll be posted at some point tonight.
Godspeed friend.

I HAD THE SANCTUARIES OF THE LAND ELAM UTTERLY DESTROYED AND I COUNTED ITS GODS AND ITS GODDESSES AS GHOSTS I DESTROYED AND DEVASTATED THE TOMBS OF THEIR EARLIER AND LATER KINGS I TOOK THEIR BONES TO ASSYRIA I PREVENTED THEIR GHOSTS FROM SLEEPING AND DEPRIVED THEM OF FUNERARY-OFFERINGS AND LIBATIONS ON A MARCH OF ONE MONTH AND TWENTY-FIVE DAYS I DEVASTATED THE DISTRICTS OF THE LAND ELAM AND SCATTERED SALT AND CRESS OVER THEM AS FOR THE REST OF THE PEOPLE THOSE STILL ALIVE I MYSELF NOW LAID FLAT THOSE PEOPLE THERE AS A FUNERARY-OFFERING I FED THEIR DISMEMBERED FLESH TO DOGS PIGS VULTURES EAGLES BIRDS OF THE HEAVENS AND FISH OF THE APSU THE NOBLES AND ELDERS OF THE CITY CAME OUT TO ME TO SAVE THEIR LIVES THEY SEIZED MY FEET AND SAID IF IT PLEASES YOU KILL IF IT PLEASES YOU SPARE IF IT PLEASES YOU DO WHAT YOU WILL IN STRIFE AND CONFLICT I BESIEGED AND CONQUERED THE CITY I FELLED 3000 OF THEIR FIGHTING MEN WITH THE SWORD I CAPTURED MANY TROOPS ALIVE I CUT OFF OF SOME THEIR ARMS AND HANDS I CUT OFF OF OTHERS THEIR NOSES EARS AND EXTREMITIES I GOUGED OUT THE EYES OF MANY TROOPS I MADE ONE PILE OF THE LIVING AND ONE OF HEADS I HUNG THEIR HEADS ON TREES AROUND THE CITY I FELLED 50 OF THEIR FIGHTING MEN WITH THE SWORD BURNT 200 CAPTIVES FROM THEM AND DEFEATED IN A BATTLE ON THE PLAIN 332 TROOPS WITH THEIR BLOOD I DYED THE MOUNTAIN RED LIKE RED WOOL AND THE REST OF THEM THE RAVINES AND TORRENTS OF THE MOUNTAIN SWALLOWED I CARRIED OFF CAPTIVES AND POSSESSIONS FROM THEM... UPON THE PILE I FLAYED MANY RIGHT THROUGH MY LAND AND DRAPED THEIR SKINS OVER THE WALLS

>>89047824
Makes me wonder what’s happening in Iraq now. It’s still under the Ottomans, so the variety of husks would be impressive.

>>89048501
Probably at least partially under Unhusked Ottomans, fighting off the Husks and Kurdish and Arab rebels and begrudgingly allied with the Egyptians.

>>89048501
This just made me realize the potential of the Ottomans, honestly. Husked anything that once inhabited that part of the world.

>>89048862
Do you think the Persian Qajars would be to the Ottomans what the Spanish are to the Italian, that being, a rallying ground for Religious crusade (jihad?) against the unholy and accursed nation that tampered with and have mounted their power on something that has no place on the Surface?

>>89048902
>Brothers in faith, let us unite against the forces of Iblis!
>Fuck off, Sh*a scum, you're no brother of mine

>>89048902
But if we place the bulk of remaining Ottomans somewhere in Eastern Turkey and Iraq (Batman was suggested as their seat of power for the meme value), their Sultan would likely use their status as Caliph and call for a jihad. Maybe the apocalyptic scale of it all is the reason they're still held together. It sure does seem like the time for all Muslims (all Sunnis at least) to unite, at least until this Husk shit is over with.

>>89048153
HYPERBOREA HAS NOW ALWAYS BEEN. IT WILL NOW ALWAYS HAVE BEEN. IT WILL NOW ALWAYS BE. THE END IS THE BEGINNING IS THE END. EMBRACE THE CYCLE AND EMBRACE THE SENSATION. PAIN AND PLEASURE ARE AS ONE. PAST AND FUTURE ARE AS ONE. SELF AND OTHER ARE AS ONE. WITNESS THE COMING OF THE NEXT AGE.
assuming the whole "the next layer appearing causes it to retroactively have always been there" thing is true, i wouldn't be surprised if hyperborea has somehow been meddling in history throughout the ages.

>>89049005
Though Baghdad seems like a more solid pick. But honestly, the potential Anti-Husk coalition is shaping up to be a cool army. Ottoman remnants, Egyptians, Kurds, Assyrians, Arabs, Iranians, some jihadis from other parts of the Muslim world, like the Acehnese. Though I think they won't really shine until we tackle the large scale Surface conflicts, if we ever do.

Do any core rules still need to be worked out, or are we waiting on unit lists only to start playtesting?

>>89050503
Shields have no rules atm.
Cover for 2e wasnt really fully worked out.
Not sure either if we had figured out something for explosions.

>>89050603
>Shields have no rules atm.
Good point...
A mere number of free Hits blocked?
Block Line of Sight / defensive bonus if line of sight travels through a single line of the hex a unit occupies?

>>89050616
Some anon mentioned working on them, if I recall.

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>>89050616
Perhaps discarding one Critical result against the targeted unit? Or perhaps the option to discard one or more (depending on the quality of the shield) like you said?

>>89050707
Turning Crits into Hits is a nice option honestly. Or something like just reducing incoming Wound serverity.

>>89050789
Depending on the size it could be reducing Crits to Body, reducing Crits to Body and Extremities and reducing Crits to everything.

Another question:
I'm assuming that Units block Line of Sight ( As in, you can't shoot at someone behind another target. )
Is that safe to assume? Do Friendlies block LoS too?

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>>89051859
I would assume so. Unless we wanted to implement a “Oops, you missed. Time to roll to see how angry your expedition mate is now that you’ve just shot him in the ass” rule.

>>89052089
I do not want to implement that. Sounds awful.
No shooting at friendlies it is.

>>89051859
I assumed so the whole time, I think it makes sense. That way you can also distinguish lobbed range weapons, and perhaps have special rules to allow armies to ignore this at times.

>>89052102
Yeah that shit opened up a lot of broken unintended moves in Warmachine.

>>89050707
>Perhaps discarding one Critical result against the targeted unit
I really like that because of how simple it is. I was trying to get something more like >>89051340, where the hit has more chance to go to that arm, and arms have an Armour buff, but it's annoying me for some reason.
Plus it stacks well with the Titanium special rule.

>>89052515
Is it still annoying if we actually use just the Extremities-Body-Vitals model?

>>89052607
Even moresoe since not all Shield should protect legs (a very minor concern, but its annoyance were talking about, not functional breakdown).

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>>89052515
I feel it also helps give more primitive troops some sort of defensive option. Especially since furs, rough tunics and hides are not going to last very long in this game.

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Sorry for the image, it was either that, a boring historical portrait that makes him look like a weak dude, or the Umbrella Academy comic version, so it went to that.

>>89053070
MISTER EIFFEL YOU MUST STOP THESE EXPERIMENTS WITH HYPERBOREAN MIASMA THERAPY
YOU'RE TURNING INTO A MONSTER\

>>89053070
What in gods name are the French doing?

>>89053070
>Eiffel used experimental technology to fuse with the Tower itself, becoming the Paris Colossus, God of the Lower Countries

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>>89053070
Also thought I'd post a sort of design intent doc.

>>89053125
>>89053093
>>89053080
Also, which Leader should I do next (from either Brits, Atlantis, Atlan or Mercs). Oh not Napoleon yet tho.

>>89053382
I think Titking is essential.

One of the few leaders intended to be fighting on the front line the entire conflict.
Even other "Fighting" leaders still wait for opportune moments to not risk themselves. Titking needs to faceroll from the start..

>>89053421
Definitely titking . Then the Brits for testing games then LEE-DEHR BABY GORG SWEEP GORG SWEEP BEST MERCS IN THE GAME

>>89053382
>>89053421
Damn straight for the Titking. He cannot be standing back in the first edition, letting his men fight without him. He could mellow out a little later, but early on he's definitely the sort to stand in front of the enemies to better murder them.

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>>89053421
>>89053508
>>89053513
I'll try to fix the format later but here you go!
Who should we take as a Leader for Brits?

>>89054014
lol I'm fucking tired I already spotted 4 mistakes, will fix tomorrow, sorry guys.

>>89054014
BY GLORY, THE HOLY TITANIUM LABRYS SHALL HAVE ITS FILL OF BLOOD TODAY!

>>89054035
All good mate. Gucci stuff.

So are we done accepting new unit ideas currently because I got a fun one but if were not taking new submissions at this time then I can just hold onto it.

>>89054150
We are not done anything. All is acceptable. Welcome to the party.

>>89054150
Lots of factions still have space left. I'd invite you to look at what is less developed in the current development phase, but even then if you have a good Idea I don't see why refuse it outright.

>>89054014
He was supposed to Frenzy when Broken, as an alternative to him dying basically. Also, is individual Dread a thing in 1e? Because otherwise Morituri won't really work as described and is better used as is (units in range ignore Morale until Broken, but get Strength/Skill penalties).

>>89054150
Bro, Britain and US still don't have clear and defined leaders.
Many factions lack Medics and Engineers.
Italy has almost nothing (just please don't simply spam magma stuff, they deserve better)
That's just from the top of my head.
There's still work to be done and making suggestions isn't a crime, and if we can't use them now, we can figure it out later.

>>89054186
>He was supposed to Frenzy when Broken, as an alternative to him dying basically
Will fix.
>Also, is individual Dread a thing in 1e?
This is 2e, and I'm toying with the idea, in order to distinguish psychological afflictions from just anything causing general panick, but in this case no, the Titking modifies how Dread works in the area around him essentially. Whatever would add Dread to the pool from a single model adds it to the Titking's profile only.
I guess it doesnt fully ignore Dread from outside the bubble, tho, you are right.

>>89054246
>Whatever would add Dread to the pool from a single model adds it to the Titking's profile only.
Ah, I see. The only issue I can see is tracking his separate Dread gain, but overall it achieves roughly the same purpose.

Have you all considered using something like the GPL3 license but for games to make sure no one can steal this shit and make money off all your work? Just found out about this and it's cool as hell, I'd hate to see it get ruined by someone monetizing it and taking everyone else's work as their own. Not sure how it all works legally.

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>>89054156
Cool, so today if found out, dating back centuries all Finnish Doctors are not truly considered to be a member of their field until they complete their Conferment Ceremony in which they wear official garb, a top hat of various colors depending on field of study (typically black) emblazoned with their school's emblem, and a gold and black hilted sword with the emblem upon the scabbard.
See pic related although it is modern

So my thinking is that this could be a cool unit with a customizable paint job that can either be part of whatever faction the Finn's are in or be a mercenary medic unit to cover various lacking armies needs while also being able to hold its own in melee combat. Also I would have them ditch the uniform for something more practical but keep the hat and sword as the distinct part of the model.

The idea of a french research expedition bringing along a foreign PHD who in the midst of battle pulls out a sword and starts swinging, or a independent group just bringing along a doctor with a sword sounds fun to me.
I will admit I may have gotten some details wrong as I only know English and there are only so many English sources for this stuff so if any Finns want to correct me go ahead.

>>89054311
My law school is nearly 2 decades away, but iirc it shouldnt be necessary to license it, it's a public crowd work, the archives here alone would be sufficient to fuel a claim.

>>89054332
Huh. Are Finns really this unsexy? Maybe it's the French in me but I feel there's a lot of wasted coomer potential here.

>>89054382
>Huh. Are Finns really this unsexy?
They might be the last sexually-minded white people on the entire planet.

>>89054382
You also have to keep in mind that there are academics which basically just finished their PHD thesis's everyone who deals with that needs at least a year to recover from the spiritual damage

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>>89054014
>>89054226
I think we should have “generic” unnamed leaders for the Brits for now. A Modern Major General, of which there have been many but all equally enthusiastic and slightly unhinged. Perhaps even a Auxiliary focused commander, like a “civilized” Zulu Chieftain or Dignitary to keep an eye on them. Maybe even an independent researcher that has delved into the arcane secrets of the deep, and has minor eldritch abilities from his many times and scraps.

>>89054425
Will get on it later on today!

>>89053070
>>89053354
Hey anon, I'm the one who made Eiffel, I'll try to find the cyborg pic I used for him, must be in the archive.

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>>89055080
>>89053070
Here. Also to explain a bit, the AP part was because the guy was known to be broad shouldered in his youth and really energic in general, the time period is also when Savate became really popular in good society to fend off people in the street and finally, I wanted to push his love for steel further. So yeah he's boxing people with augmented arms (but refuse to use weapons). Kinda fitted the "French characters are gimmicky weirdo" vibe of having a colonial who ONLY fight in melee (but is deadly).

>>89054264
>>89054014
Though I gave it more thought and I still think the doc version is better.

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The Pale Dweller bumps the thread. (I have no idea what to do with this guy).

I've been looking into making an easy-to-modify template.
A pdf with fillable forms could work, but it's a pain in the ass to make and it lacks automation (e.g. I can't seem to make a field that would automatically arrange wounds based on their amount)
Alternatively a simple webpage with minimal code could be enough - I'll try making something this weekend
>>89050603
My proposal is to have shields be a weapon. Low damage and penetration (1 Minor wound for most) but a medium/high Weapon Bonus (At least +2).
Each shield would have a rule that allows the user to buff his Melee Armor Save by the shield's Weapon Bonus. The type of shield would determine which hit locations benefit from this bonus.

Also, could we reconsider how Evasion works in the Doc rn? The fact that it's the determining factor in the hit chance just rubs me the wrong way for some reason.
Having the attackers Combat Skill be the target number (like it used to be) and evasion being a modifier feels more intuitive to me imo

>>89058075
>(I have no idea what to do with this guy).
Yeah the jak blurbs are pretty weird.
Mercernary Character for Colonials & Mu?
Is he supposed to be an alien time-traveler or something else? Because if he is an alien time-traveler you could have him be a good "science" officer for expeditions...

>>89058075
Possible mere meme/fan theory character.

>>89060102
>occasionally shows up in the background of colonials illustrations
>has no lore, is never acknowledged
>becomes a major character during the huperborean deluge end times

Something's been bothering me.
As of right now there is not really any impact to having more than one melee weapon. You just spend an AP and chose which weapon to attack with. This means that any model's whose profiles has two melee weapons will only ever use the best one, if there is one.
So perhaps to offset this, we could have a baked-in rules to melee combat saying that subsequent attacks with the same melee weapon in a model's activation grants a To Defend bonus to the target? Wouldn't really be hard to track.

>>89061971
>This means that any model's whose profiles has two melee weapons will only ever use the best one, if there is one.
Isn't that the point of carrying multiple melee weapons? Use whichever one is more situationally appropriate?

>>89062175
>Isn't that the point of carrying multiple melee weapons? Use whichever one is more situationally appropriate?
That implies balancing every weapons perfectly, or having the weapons profile statics. I had assumed units would usually come with their assigned weapons but that you might mid-expedition switch them for weapons purchased or found.

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Fuck it. I got the minis. The only things I didn’t get were laborers as the only ones they had were 1920’s dock workers 3 of which were carrying tommy guns. Even at 15mm I don’t think I can hide that.

>>89063094
Jesus Christ you absolute unit.

>>89063094
>3 of which were carrying tommy guns.
ehh, they're hyperborean artifacts or something. don't worry about it.

>>89063094
Based.

>>89058075
It has been specultated that aliens may live or have lived in the Firmament (possibly still alive as slaves to the Hyperboreans) or possibly beyond.

>>89063524
That’s fair. Even my Boack Watch minis I got don’t have the big funny Brit hat, just Bonnets. On the plus side, the sword swinging ones mixed into the rifle squad can be easily used as Malcomite rebels.

Brings me to:

X6 British command (General and Gunnery)

X6 Privates

X6 Unmarried Zulu Warriors

X12 Black Watch

X10 Gorgs

X3 Gorg Comnand (The handsome lad in the right shall be my Lee-Dehr)

All under 40 bucks

I’ll pick up some laborers once my buddy sees the New Amy roster and decides how many Morlocks he’s gonna get.

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>>89063904
Forgot pic damn it and misspelled Black Watch.

>>89063914
LEFT GOD I NEED TO SLEEP.

>>89063904
>On the plus side, the sword swinging ones mixed into the rifle squad can be easily used as Malcomite rebels.
Maybe we should include a Black Watch (Claymore) variant, essentially a Malcolmite Rebel stripped of the whole "broken man taking it out on the enemy" angle but with better discipline?

>>89063989
We decided earlier not to do variant weapons, though I wouldn't mind some highlander unit being the primary melee unit of Britain.

>>89064007
Did we decide that? I must have missed it somewhere.
Then again, the better question is Why the fuck are you running melee infantry as Colonials?

>>89064201
>Did we decide that?
It was a point of complexity. Why not just make a new unit to fill the role?

But also yes, colonials seem to be the ranged-focused factions.

Someone proposed Fateless Lemurians as the name for mercenary units from Lemuria, does anyone have any ideas for other underworld mercs willing to sell their services to the highest bidder?
I'm thinking that it's pretty normal for Atlan warriors to spend some time abroad, fighting for coin and honor, before eventually coming home to tell tales of the (under)world beyond the wall. With the coming of the surfacers and all the fighting that happens as a result, it wouldn't be surprising to see these untested Atlans among surfacers' auxiliaries in the deep.

>>89064354
>does anyone have any ideas for other underworld mercs willing to sell their services to the highest bidder?
The neanderthals and tribals apparently fall into that category a lot too.

>>89064454
Those are pretty much the main Agarthan mercenaries that made it onto the compasses, but I was hoping for ideas regarding the main underground factions' local mercenaries. Neanderthals and tribals aren't really affiliated with any faction.

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>>89064354
Some ideas I had are

>Disgraced Olm Knights: Banished Atlanteans, or petty thieves that has a rowdy barely trained Olm “under control”

>New Mu Double Agent/Doppleganger: A (literally) two faced Mu operative that can be hidden inside an enemy unit or disguise as a terrain hazard.

It’s on the compass but it seems more interesting as a merc.

> CXIV: Rogue Atlan golem that has broken away from the Yoke of its masters. Takes any chance to fight Atlan, but do not push them lest he turns his anger on you.

>Madman: Blind crippled Lemurian apostle well on his way to degeneration acts as sort of suicide unit, cursing enemy units with muttered spite and painful prophecies

>The Abberation: A massive feral Morlock that acts a sort large guard dog. Given to those “favored” by New Mu. Fickle and dangerous.

>>89065581
Disgraced Olm Kingths could also be the aristocrats banished from Atlantis after the Revolution.

So, how strong are Gorgs btw? Relatively to humans?

>>89064863
Here are some ideas
>Atlanteans
As the civilization closest to how the surface people act having mercenaries work for coin is commonplace and with the way things are set up having slightly off versions of their proper units could work
I'm thinking veterans who have left the Akritai due to injury or age and so serve as a more fragile but trained version of the Akritai and, youth who instead of taking on their families military tradition take their father's gear and head out to make coin being lower stated versions of say the Promethean and Combat Alchemist unit due to lack of training and a higher cost but making up for it with the reckless energy of youth.

>Mu
Mu seems to have plans within plans going on and sending agents out into other factions as mercenary units with well with their M.O.
So I'm thinking a cousin to the Doppelganger unit that unlike its assassin relative copies the stats of a different ailed unit every X amount of turns, basically a expensive of versatile force multiplier.

>>89065631
Pretty strong on average. They lead active lifestyles and chug down nutritious stink juice all day.

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>>89065631
Pretty damn strong! A well fed Gorg can send a fully grown man flying back with a swing of his club (represented by GORG SMASH, usually displacing the victim by a single hex)

It is said that with the many gifts and tributes given to Lee-Dehr, he has grown as strong as three Gorgs! (Thus letting him club his victims a full three hexes with his Shiny Club!)

It’s basically a race of drunk career dead-lifters, left almost entirely unsupervised.

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>>89065619
Oh, that’s good too.

>>89065631
Like monkeys. Rip your face off with their bare hands strong.

>>89065581
>>Disgraced Olm Knights
Oh, also, what do Olms look like?

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>>89067833
For reference, here is a real life Olm. Our friend the Blind Cave Salamander.

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>>89067936
However, the Wojak art seems closer to this.

They grow them big and hungry down in the Deep.

>>89067936
>>89067951
Honestly I don't mind the idea of an Olm with only two (fore)legs. No hind legs at all, more of a serpent in that case.
Anyone on board with that design?

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>>89063710
>>89058075
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2is2A47FY58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4NpnxsIQo0
There are some pretty good cases of pre-modern UFO's that we could use for lore. Also there's of course the late 19th century depictions. I for one think Martians should be mentioned, with the implication they're the big bad of the Firmament or something.

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>>89068107
I’m good with it!

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Tried fleshing out the Atlantean religion. Sorry for the ESL, but the author is also ESL, so it's all good.

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>>89069575
Absolute madman. I’ll have to give it a look along with the other longer form story from last thread.

>>89058075
Could be that he's not an alien really, just someone who got horribly mutated while descending the layers.

>>89068366
I think we were talking about making Martians (and other various aliens) be various subjugated peoples of Hyperborea.

>>89069575
>the pregnancies of sea sows
truly one of nature's most beautiful sights.

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>>89069575
> Sea sow
So, French people are actually descended from Atlanteans?
The myth goes that Merovech, founder of the Merovingians, was a demi-God fathered by a Quinotaur, an avatar of Neptune

>>89075921
Early Frankish folklore is the wildest shit. I really wish we had more records about Late Roman Gaul to the early Merovingians.

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Gorg posting time

>Belchers: Prince Lee-Dehrs best drinking buddies and closest thing Gorgs have to an honor guard. Well armored, strong but completely lost without the Prince to guide them.

>Stink Beetle Brigade: Gorgs often find large beetles feasting the trunks and roots of their beloved stink mushrooms. Most of the time they are squashed and mixed into the latest batch of Stink Juice or cooked in the shattered shell. Some enterprising Gorgs instead round them up and train them in a rudimentary fashion. Polo king them with a stick or throwing chunks of fermented mushroom in front of them; they are goaded towards the enemy where they become agitated and let loose their pungent projectiles.

>Some even grow so large that Four Horns use them as mounts…

>No Horns: Gorgs love a good brawl and that doesn’t change even in the earliest years. Most Gorg whelps push shove and bite to get at their mothers natural and nutritious Stink Juice. When a Gorg camp is threatened it’s not uncommon to find a teeming horde of No Horns, escorted by a throughly incensed Gorg Matron, throwing them selves at the invaders!

>Tossers: Some Gorgs forgo the club all together and take up the venerable tradition of picking up whatever is near and hurling it towards the enemy. Rocks, stale shroom caps, dropped weapons, an unfortunate No Horn, even the enemy are all ammunition for these barbaric ballistic enthusiasts.

>>89077606
>Stink Beetle
I still can't believe they actually introduced an origin of stink juice.
It was supposed to remain a MYSTERY, damnit! The lore is ruined!

So, rules question, 2e doesnt currently have a mechanic or stat value for Evasion, its rolled into the Skill stat, but it really wouldnt be much to adapt it.
Yay or nay?

>>89077683
More complexity bad.
More clarity good.

I'd say part them out. "Skill" is a rather vague term that's difficult to intuitively translate to gameplay without reading the rules.

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>>89077642
You misunderstand friend, it’s only one part of the whole recipe. The only thing we know is:

They come from mushrooms that also fashion the distinctive green of their helmets.

And stink beetles are a popular additive.

The true process will always be debated.

>>89077715
Should weapons have also an evasion Rating mod?

>>89077968
I'm not sure. Possible that only some small, evasive units have any Evasion at all.

>>89078018
Yeah, it probably would be set at either 0-1 for the vast majority of units. I assume colonials would not have much of it unless there was a focus on guerrilla warfare backed in (USA, maybe Parguay if that ever takes shape).

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>>89068366
Ah, yes, the dreaded sky pirates of Magonia who summon storms and pillage the countryside. We've got another one, boys.

>>89077715
>>89077683
This also raises another issue. Should I set another Value to distinguish Combat Skill and "Worker" Skill? As of right now it's also folded together, and that makes for weird situations (that can 100% be resolved by use of Keywords, but still... )...
I dont want to inflate the stat block too much but it seems reasonable.

>>89078520
I don't mind having it all folded together, but seeking out a term that better and more intuitively describes the mechanics could be helpfull.

"Skill" is rather vague, and its hard to find a good one for both workers and attacks. Perhaps parting them just for clarity's sake could be helpful.

I definitely don't want keywords to be the solution. Those should be kept to a strict minimum.

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>>89078520
>>89078622
Aggression and Industry to separate the combat stat and the more constructive utility stat?

>>89078520
Originally, Excavation and Construction were conceived as actual stats workers and some others would have.

>>89078705
Seems unnecessary, this seems like keywords/equipment/special rules would work better for those distinctions. Unless building and excavating is something done almost as much as combat, which I dont think it should personally...

>>89078814
I don't think they're done as much as combat, but I think all units should have some capability to do those things. Granted, if you're at a point where you're ordering your men to drop their rifles and pick up shovels, things probably aren't going your way and there should be some kind of penalty to avoid cheese strats like just having your entire army start digging for whatever reason.
>>89078065
Probably a lot of mercenary/auxiliary units would have access to it. Most European armies relied primarily on rigid formations in this era, but people like the Highlanders and Gurkhas would be more skilled in guerilla tactics.

>>89078814
In that case, yeah, just have something like Worker Skill separate from Combat Skill, and use special rules to differentiate specific Worker stuff.
I assume by Combat Skill you mean the category in the doc. Why is it even a thing if in practice you use either Strength or Skill anyway? Just have something like Skill, Strength and, idk, Labor.

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>>89078814
Quick idea and I completely understand if this is unwanted; but have we considered making worker units an abstract benefit rather than on the table unit?

What I’m thinking is yes there will be plenty of laborers on an expedition, but keeping track of all of them while also throwing them into the thick of combat might be too much. Perhaps spending silver/points on them allows you to have expendable utility powers for the match. So during set up you can place barricades, dynamite tokens to clear walls and rubble, trap tokens, vehicle repair tokens that can be spent and other such things. This it becomes a balancing act of taking an effective combat force but also spending resources to control the battlefield and guide the Expedition in a larger campaign format.

And kisses to that pool of workers can be affected by losses, disasters and other such factors.

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>>89078921
>Kisses

what the fuck autocorrect.

The point is that your labor force can fluctuate throughout a longer form game.

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>>89078921
>>89078985
It could wind up being a lot to keep track of, but I sort of like the idea of having to bring workers onto the battlefield. Being able to spend points to magically clear tiles doesn't feel as nice to me as just having a unit whose job is to dig.

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>>89079027
Fair, fair. I was just spitballing regardless.

I want to hold hands with the Heiress

>>89078913
>assume by Combat Skill you mean the category in the doc. Why is it even a thing if in practice you use either Strength or Skill anyway? Just have something like Skill, Strength and, idk, Labour.
2e started as an answer to how to resolve combat, the initial pitch didnt need more than 1 Stat on the unit profile to determine the "to hit" and "to defend" rolls.
Besides the 1e anon who suggested a different system, there were little movement on rules development going into something solid so I kinda went forward with this. Now that we're reaching a new step of the development cycle I'm wondering if I shouldnt bring things closer to the doc, but I want to make sure the mechanics are solid and values dont just answer a problem that could be resolved otherwise easier.

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>>89079561
>Nu Lore

>>89079561
I want to get stabbed and laughed at by the Princess

There's another thread surrounding discussion of an underwater setting, and a thought came to mind while reading through it. Once the "main" system gets polished, a Battlefleet Gothic equivalent might be worth getting a feel for. Here's what I threw out in the thread:
>Large scale battles fought with Ironclads, primitive submarines, and ancient sea monsters.
>Each faction vies for control over underwater trenches, caves, and volcanoes that contain invaluable sites, technologies, or passages further underground.
I don't have too much time to catch up on this project, but I hope this idea is useful one way or another.

>>89081583
An interesting thought, for sure.
This setting could go so many ways, its hard to tell where it'll end up once we finish the core and start branching out.

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>>89081583
>Fighting in primitive land machines and submersibles
There is and will be no Power underground but Air Power!

>>89074372
Honestly there's one thing I've been wondering: is outer space even a thing in this world? Like, if you push past the first layer will you end up in space, or is it just more hyperborean layers?

>>89084428
There is outer space. The problem is that it's 'outer', as in outside the cycle. Go far enough through the hyperborean layers and you can see the realm outside, in all its glory. Yet another thing that drives the hyperborean warlords downwards as they flee from the monsters they believe hide amongst the stars so close to them.

>>89084428
There is, at the very least, the void outside of the layered reality, from whence the Star Ancestor came. There could be extra layers, it could just loop to the bottom layer, we don't really know.

So, are we good to add both Labour and Evasion to the 2e profiles?
Do you guys like Evasion as a stat name? It kind of annoys me how specific it is. Wouldn't Agility be better?

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>>89069575
I made a couple of revisions, since Gaia ended up kinda excluded from the narrative in the original take.
>>89085860
I'm fine with either Evasion or Agility, though Evasion has the mild benefit of not having to ctrl+F and change it in the doc.

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>>89025754
Here are the updated 2e troop rosters with Evasion and Labour added in. Thinking I'll be working on adding the weapons next.

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>>89087095

>>89087095
So, given the low numbers, is it meant to be a modifier, rather than a stat/target to roll against?

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>>89087107

>>89087130
Evasion you mean? Modifier for now.

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>>89087173

>>89081583
>Rakkad, after a decade of having the literal coolest lore and novel (even if no one can agree on his lore outside his one novel), is finally useful
Hell yeah

>>89087184
I'm really fine with either, as long as Evasion is actually a thing and we can actually implement all the proposed unit mechanics with it.

>>89087095
Good work as always anon!

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This was just done on a whim.

>>89089852
>Some Lemurs can actually survive the end of a Cycle and slip into the next one
>With every Cycle their power grows
>First, they become the Unicyclists, then the Bicyclists and finally the strongest of them all
>The Tricyclist
>Yet there are also rumors of the fabled Lemur Quadricyclist riding the Loop in circles

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>>89089852
Beautiful!

>>89089852
poor, poor frenchman

>>89089852
Absolutely based. I'm saving this later use.

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what the fuck

>>89091962
> Expedition Agartha is a hardcore multiplayer First Person Looter Survival game. Explorers and Mercenaries from around the world find themselves on a mysterious island in the Lost Continent of Mu.
FFS the simulation is fucking up again.

>>89091962
Im dead man, holeeeee

>>89091882
If you do, feel free to change the stats. I had no idea what I was doing.

>>89091962
>Satsuma samurai facing the knight of Brittania

>>89091962
This is why we have the "Descent" part tacked out.

>>89091962
5th edition name change incoming:
>EXPEDITION: AGARTHA DESCENT: Scramble to the Center of the Earth: LUCIFER NAPOLEON

>>89092404
>Featuring Ozymandias from "Ozymandias"

>>89092404
>>89092447
So whats the timeline on edition name changes if we have one?

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>>89091962
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>89092404
>EXPEDITION: AGARTHA DESCENT: Scramble to the Center of the Earth, 5th Edition: Hyperborea's Descent

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>>89091962
THE THREAD HAS INSERTED ANOTHER CONCEPT INTO THE SIMULATION
AGAIN

>>89094065
we gotta stop doing this shit, i don’t want to get hyperwarrior’d

>>89064208
>>89064007
I'll be honest, I absolutely loathe this, if only because it's a huge kick in the nuts to kitbashing.

>>89097083
I don't even recall this being discussed. Perhaps we should reopen discussion on the topic?
I'm pretty sure a couple units on the compasses mention having variants, and it does support kitbashing.

>>89097083
>a huge kick in the nuts to kitbashing.
That's a fair point, but we also have to consider game readability.
Possible we could find a healthy middle ground?
Maybe ONLY leaders have variant weapons? We've had a few discussions before about lumping overly complex but evocative/interesting elements onto Leaders exclusively, to help keep them from ruining smooth gameplay flow.

Variant weapons are all over the unit doc. I'm sorry, but what in the actual fuck is so complicated about variant weapons?

>>89100131
>but what in the actual fuck is so complicated about variant weapons?
Visual clarity of units on the board, bloating of statblocks sizes (we want to keep those as tight and readable as possible), more difficult to balance for, etc.

There really are very few advantages to it.

>>89100131
>>89100527
A proposal to keep weapon variance while keeping stat blocks readable.

First we have keywords based on faction and whether their colonial, below, mercenary, or whatever then utilize the unit typing's like Elite and Soldier. So for instance a Foreign Legion, 2nd REP would be
Faction: France
Origin: Colonial
Type: Soldier

Next instead of having the weapons be baked into the statblocks we have a section in the rulebook for the various weapons broken up by Faction and Type with a portion at the end of each section for the unique weapons related to that faction.
The if a unit has a unique weapon associated with it then their is a note either on the unit's block or in the weapon statblock in the book, whatever looks better.
So the french part of the equipment section would look like
Weapons: France
Soldier
)Put Soldier Weapons Here)
Elite
(Put Elite Weapons Here)
Special
(Put Special Weapons Here)

As for the models the best I can propose there is either some sort of tag applied to the base of a unit to indicate weapon loadout or since this is a skirmish game first and foremost, a larger model size than industry standard with which we can preset more easily readable weapon sculpts.

Again its just a proposal I came up with in like 20 minutes so any critique is good.

>>89100981
Honestly?
As much as the work on 2e and 1e is great, I wouldn't mind at all exploring custom equipment loadouts as a CORE mechanic.

Not merely specific units with variant loadouts, but actually using the "Silver" to hand-craft your army.
Its an elegant solution. Still has HUGE unit-on-board readability problems, but it solves that decently by simply assuming units will hold a lot of variety.

Worth considering. Plus, this does an EVEN BETTER job of building some great kitbashing opportunities.

>>89101026
I think units should have a standart loadout with some having a couple of options, but you get to spend extra to change it up. That way it's as complex as you want it to be too.

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>>89101624
This was pretty much always my expectation with 2e, also why I started with a weapon list initially like this.

>>89101624
>I think units should have a standart loadout with some having a couple of options,
I really, absolutely hate this idea.
Its literally just how Warhammer does it, and it sucks in that game.
If you want variable weapons, then weapons should be variable, not some half-baked idea where only CERTAIN brits can carry a Martini-Henry even though pulling a trigger is a common skill for every man with fingers.

I would prefer units have specific non-variable statblocks, or we explore kitbash-style variable weapons across entire factions. Doing it half-assed like WH does is just the worst of both worlds. All the visual clarity issues of single-unit variance, but with none of the interesting jank that can come from hand-crafted army loadouts.

>>89102115
>not some half-baked idea where only CERTAIN brits can carry a Martini-Henry even though pulling a trigger is a common skill for every man with fingers.
They certainly all have fngers and can pull a trigger on any weapon, it's just that you get standart issue for free and anything else for silver on top.

HYPERBOREAN HYPERWARLORD ability: I CAN SMELL WHAT YOUR BLOOD FEARS
>Whenever this unit damages another unit; if the target fears any faction/unit type, this unit gains that tag until it damages another unit with a different fear. Only one tag can be gained in this manner; if the target fears multiple tags, then choose only one of those tags for the HYPERWARLORD to gain.
Any ideas on how to phrase this better? I like this idea, and I think it could lead to some funny interactions where the HYPERWARLORD gains a new unit type temporarily and the opposing army is able to take advantage of that by targeting him with something that counters that type.

>>89102354
>it's just that you get standart issue for free and anything else for silver on top.
That's what I'm thinking about.

Like, wouldn't it be more interesting to have equipment and personnel be separately purchased? Just a thought, there's some potential here.

>>89102811
>>Whenever this unit damages another unit; if the target fears any faction/unit type, this unit gains that tag until it damages another unit with a different fear. Only one tag can be gained in this manner; if the target fears multiple tags, then choose only one of those tags for the HYPERWARLORD to gain.
I'm not sure what "gains that tag" refers to. What tag?

>>89103238
Like, Minister Eiffel here: >>89053070
Eiffel fears Atlan units, so the HYPERWARLORD would be considered an Atlan unit after damaging Eiffel. If he then went and damaged something that feared infantry, he would stop being an Atlan unit and start being an Infantry unit in addition to being a Cavalry unit.
Does that make sense?

>>89103352
Ahh, in that case something like

>After damaging a target, this unit gains one type from among that target's Fears, until it damages a different target with different Fears.

I think we might need to reconsider the Mu attack on New York. Atlan makes more sense geographically and motivation-wise, as the Epigeans used Titanium to build the statue and probably crossed the Wall. Also it's weird how for all their characterisation as warmongers, it is the Mu who have invaded the Surface twice at this point as opposed to Atlan's zero attempts. I certainly get the aesthetical appeal of Morlock hordes in the streets of New York, but so are Golems marching through them and wrecking shit. Just my two obols.

>>89103568
>for all their characterisation as warmongers, it is the Mu who have invaded the Surface twice
mu are also warmongers and are known to hate outlanders (not racist, just don't like 'em)

>>89102115
>Its literally just how Warhammer does it, and it sucks in that game.
Having weapons tables worked perfectly fine for the type of game that was Warhammer Fantasy 2~3e.
>>89102115
>I would prefer units have specific non-variable statblocks
How is it simpler to have three profiles for the same troop type but different loadouts than just one profile and say "This unit can buy from both the Basic Underworld Weapons table and the Basic Colonial Weapons table"?
> "But why can't the Zulu Warrior be equipped with a Krupp C64?!? He's got arms to load them and hands to light the fuse, no? "
Really? We really gonna have this conversation?

>>89103607
>"But why can't the Zulu Warrior be equipped with a Krupp C64?"
Perhaps some kind of "weapon familiarity" rules where your average infantryman can figure out how to use any type of infantry rifle (though he may struggle with exotic squad operated weaponry) he encounters, so you could theoretically wind up with a spring gun in the hands of a sepoy. This could be separated by familiarity with specific weapons and with general weapon types. IE: A Black Watch unit is familiar with all infantry rifles and with swords/knives/bayonets, but not with all types of melee weapons.

>>89103568
Or maybe just let the Atlans have their own attack that plays into the PACT lore. Something like them emerging from the Bayano Caves in contemporary Colombia, modern Panama, and running amok, attacking the Panama City, until they're pushed back and Colombia joins the PACT, securing the U.S. control of the isthmus and the future canal as a bonus. There is also a conspiracy theory that it might have been a false flag, as in they were tipped off to the entrance location indirectly.

>>89103651
>Perhaps some kind of "weapon familiarity" rules
See now we're going into "I ain't reading all that shit just tell me how I play the game" territory.

I've sad my piece. I do not like variant weapons. I see nearly no benefit to them, its more work to develop AND more work to balance.
A unit should have its stats, and that's it.

>>89103607
>just one profile and say "This unit can buy from both the Basic Underworld Weapons table and the Basic Colonial Weapons table"?
This seems better to me.

>>89103789
>A unit should have its stats, and that's it.
I think the only exception to this should be campaign upgrades, but even this should be reigned in.

>>89103841
I'll try to be more clear.
We will easily be adding 5-10 extra pages to the rules book with these ideas. We're also adding a ton of design work, and SO much balance work with all the varying iterations that we basically turn the game from something that be balanced, to something that is TOTALLY impossible to balance.
What benefit to ACTUAL gameplay does it provide? Like, for real gameplay over the board.
You get some theorycrafting benefit. Maybe a tiny hint of army building startegy. But once you sit down to actually play, these extra pages and impossible mountain of balance work makes zero impact at best, and "Oops we broke everything and the game is unplayable and we can't fix it" at worst.

I am not a fan.

>>89104302
>5-10 extra pages to the rules book with these ideas
Wut. Why would you need 5-10 extra pages? one or two for the weapon lists, and maybe again 1-2 for the categories at most.
>We're also adding a ton of design work
Again, not really, the weapons just move from one place to another.
>and SO much balance work
Depend how it is done, it can actually save time on balance since you can balance all weapons against each other at once and then make sure you don't have too great outliers. Weapons are not really that huge of a determining factors anyways. Most will shift odds 10-20% one way or another on both the attack and armour step, and the biggest value they offer is their damage output, which is pretty much 1~3.
>What benefit to ACTUAL gameplay does it provide?
Provides interest in the game from a modeling point of view. Otherwise this might as well be a boardgame the whole way and just use tokens. Maybe that's more your alley.
A homebrew skirmish miniature wargame with a heavy focus on campaign, but without loadout options at all. You might as well not have weapons at all and just a "ranged attack : " and "melee attack : " stat on the profile. I can't think of a single one right now and for the life of me I couldn't think of why I'd want to play something like that.

>>89104302
Full context I'm>>89100981 anon so people know my stance

While I totally understand where you coming from to me It depends on how granular we get with the numbers.
If everything stays on say a 1-10 stat basis with one ability max for a few weapons and we limit a weapon roster to say 1-4 choices per faction,there can be variance without going to far into complexity territory.
From my perspective in order to have variation in a game there is going to be a acceptable level on unbalance, with a completely optimized army having a 10-25% acceptable higher win rate than an unoptimized army depending on a games average match length.
If the primary gameplay mode was a full army scale wargame I would honestly agree with you due to the sheer unit amount and subsequent complexity but in the primary skirmish variant we and working with that has a general 15 unit maximum and liekly much less i think more personalization for "your guys" matters.
I will state that I also think that factions who field a higher amount of troops should have less variation (I think it would be good policy for say Morlocks which are spamable and disposable to just use their fists).
Basically the less units on board the more acceptable a simplified equipment could be.

Again I totally get where you coming from and honestly while I enjoy seeing and partaking in these debates I want to see actual game rounds of 1e and 2e so we can properly gauge how much complexity takes place during a match already. We got 5 full hypothetical editions worth of test space to work with here, perhaps such rules can be tested in a hypothetical 3e, but we should polish and test what we have so far first in my opinion.

>>89104494
*Basically the more units on board the more acceptable a simplified equipment could be.

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>pic related will or has unironically happened in lore and tabletop

uneqivocially based. I'll look for you on the field.

>>89104467
>Otherwise this might as well be a boardgame the whole way and just use tokens.
>You might as well not have weapons at all and just a "ranged attack : " and "melee attack : " stat on the profile.
That's my main gripe too. Optimizing shit is a good sentiment, but this is taking a weird turn, which kinda scraps any advantage having it be small-scale game gave it in the first place. If I have just 15 guys and like 5 of them are there to dig, you'd better believe I want to have more knowledge and control over kind of weapons they use.

>>89105114
careful anon, people who've added or contributed nothing to the game will say you're complaining too much.

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>>89105201
Why, speaking of contributions, I've just gotten a sudden and completely random urge to say that Atlan is a good faction.

GLORY TO THE TITANIUM KING
GLORY TO ATLAN

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Anons, we've got to resume actually adding new/changing old rules. I know 1e and 2e anons are working on their versions, but the rules Doc had no major changes in a week.
Discussions are all well and good, but they don't really matter if no one writes stuff down.

On the topic of changes, what's everyone's opinion on Evasion? It was the last thing added to the rules.
I'm not a fan of it being a stat. The previous version of Combat skill being a stat you use for attack rolls works better imo. Evasion should be a modifier stat instead, maybe even a special rule.

>>89105114
>>89104467
>>89104494
I'm with you on having variable equipment.
Something like Mordheim, where each faction has a few equipment tables with generic and unique faction equipment for each unit role would work well methinks. (I know it's a GW game, but it's a good enough system, shush)
This also simplifies unit creation - you only have to worry about deciding on model's stats and special rules.

>>89106981
Evasion should be a thing in some form, because too many units rely on it. Modifier is fine, it just was a stat in one of the drafts, is all.
Combat skill roll as suggested also only really worked as roll under, if I recall, and many have voiced preference for roll-over.

>>89106068
>teleports behind your wall
nothing personnel, kid

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>>89106981
I agree with this anon on the equipment table solution. Easy to bang out stats, each faction can have three to four weapon tables. I think it’ll not only solve the our problem, but open up unique and flavorful design for the factions.

>>89111332
>I agree with this anon on the equipment table solution.
As the anon that's disagreeing with variant weapons, I also agree that equipment tables are a reasonable solution. It has an elegance to it.

So, with equipment tables, how do we handle getting access to exotic underground weapons as a campaign progresses?

>>89113032
Spitballing but how about certain units having access to multiple weapon types and allowing looting.

Really it can be something not in the basic skirmish rules but clarified in the campaign rule section.

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>>89113200
>certain units having access to multiple weapon types and allowing looting
The Ambitious Evzone strikes again!

>>89113200
>looting
You know... that was in the original chart. Something about "Never let this atlantean unit get surface guns"

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>>89113032
Discovery through the random events of said campaign, perhaps a Black Market that grows in stock and strangeness as you get deeper. You can even contract different agents that increase your chance of gaining the forbidden goodies. Perhaps for a major power boost you can but Deep relics that have a chance of corrupting your forces.

Who's got the new thread?

>>89113032
The Nether Earth Trading & Exploration Company of course! Spend silver, or trade your valuable artifacts in return for the latest weaponry from the surface*, or strange experimental weapons developed underground! The Company also pays expeditions that seek extra reward to venture into ruins and ancient sites to recover objects of arcane power and importance, and payment may be taken in weaponry and ammo. Visit a Company trading post today!

*Maxim gun in limited supplies, get it while stocks last!

>>89114621
Anyone up to bake? I could if nobody does.

THE NEW ONE
>>89115225