Did a thread about using extinct animals as monsters a few weeks ago, and it went well, so trying again.Now with retro-art and outdated interpretations!What's your favourite fringe-science, weird theory, or outdated idea about prehistoric creatures?
So, hotter would you stat these besties over here.Not necessarily in any particular system, but rather in general terms, such as attacks, defense rating, special attacks, robustness, etc?
I swear, swipe is the worst!* how** beasties
>>87572505Good question, perhaps a kind of tag system would work best, like Amphibian, Pouncer, Diurnal etc
And about the fringe science one, parasaurolophus than snorted flames are my prefered.
>>87572477Paleonerd from /an/ here, I havent played enough ttrpgs to confidently start statting things but im happy to anser questions and give opinions
>>87572505Anteosaurus as shown there is basically a more bitey lion scaled (excuse the pun) up to polar bear size. So basically just the same rules as a big cat, only stronger and tougher with a nastier (but possibly slower) bite. It was also probably fairly deaf (no external ears, primitive inner ear) and stupid (small brain), especially compared to modern predatory mammals, and maybe a bit clumsy.A more likely interpretation of it would be a lot more lizard-like, with a somewhat sprawling posture, tapering tail, and a head rather like a t-rex. The best modern match is probably a crocodile (but not semi-aquatic) or huge monitor lizard (but in an apex predator niche with jaws to match).The pristerognathid looks more wolf-like, which is mostly in keeping with their actual anatomy, although the real animal was likely a bit more sprawling and reptilian in build. I'd say a hyena might be a reasonable modern-day analogue, although the synapsid would be deaf, stupid, and slow-moving (over distance, not necessarily in short bursts) compared to them. Since most other animals were also slow, deaf and dim at the time, this wouldn't be too much of a problem.
>>87572837Basal synapsids were not deaf, mammals have such good hearing because synapsids evolved to reuse 3 diffrent jawbones present in sauropsids as built in hearing aids. They'd have probably had decent enough hearing to detect a person walking. Better than reptiles but not quite that of mammals.
>>87572757Can you recommend any prehistoric fish which aren't dunkleosteus, megalodon, or similar which would be a threat to a human?Seems like there's loads of stuff out there about awesome monstrous land animals, and aquatic reptiles, but very little about fish. Especially jawless and ray-finned fish, which seem to only get mentioned as being terribly important by palaeontologists, but never get the pop-science treatment that dinosaurs, etc. do.Ditto for invertebrates. Feels like there's a handful of intimidating scorpions and eurypterids, some large but not large enough to be dangerous insects, and the cephalopods. Anomalocarids are freaky, but I'm having a hard time identifying which ones are potentially dangerous, since a lot of the big ones seem to be filter feeders. Trilobites are famous, and there seem to be some big ones with gnarly hip-jaws (that's about the best description I can give their feeding apparatus), but getting specifics about things like body mass is proving tricky. At best I find length estimates.I get that a lot of invertebrates (i.e. most soft-bodied forms) aren't going to leave good fossils and the thing which makes invertebrates dangerous is often venom, which doesn't show up well in fossils, so this could be really hard to answer.
>>87572477Favorite outdated is probably quadrupedal Postosuchus. We still get that basically with Saurosuchus, but it's such a less well-known genera.
>>87573031https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XiphactinusDo you consider this to be too similar to the above? I know mostly about the Mesozoic with a fair bit of the later-Paleozoic thrown in, but now that you mention it I have generally neglected fish.
Despite the lack of gore, this might be the most brutal version of the iconic triceratops vs. T. rex fight I've seen. You know those horns are deep in his body.
>>87572477anyone else find it really annoying that it's only dinosaurs that have these really weird and elitist fanbases about how any kind of artistic license makes you an 'awesomebro'? i was reading about the bloodstrikers and battletitans on RPGnet and someone was going off on how they were just stupid 'awesomebro' takes, and how a ~real~ fantasy dinosaur would not resemble any known dinosaursand then no one cares about helicoprion or dunkleosteus looking like fucking monsters, or anomalocaris
>>87573031>>87573031For invertbrates there were a few large cephalopods,Endoceras: was a giant stright shelled squid reletive groeing up to 5 to 9m long. Enchoteuthis: a 3 m long vampire squid like animal
>>87573061That's good. It's 'just another big, bitey fish' but at least it's a completely different order, and it may have had a few neat details like possibly being warm-blooded and having its swim-bladder still function as a lung.What kind of body mass would you say it had? I'd guess around one tonne. Similar build to an Atlantic Tarpon, but a bit slimmer. Atlantic Tarpon gets to about half the length and 'up to' 161 kg. according to wikipedia. Slim that down to around 125 kg, then scale up double in every dimension, for 8 times the volume. On the other hand, taking it as a tube about 4m long (to adjust for tapering at the ends of the 5m fish) and average diameter of around 30 cm (oval about 80 cm high by maybe 40 cm wide) gives about 1.13 cubic metres, and it would have a density basically equal to sea-water (about 1.025 tonnes per cubic metre) so 1.16 tonnes... close enough for my purposes.
>>87573114Wrong fucking image.
>>87573154>RPGnetWhy do that to yourself?
>>87573154Yes, but its because the paleocommunity is in a wierd state, you have paleotards, who are anal as fuck and are "Ackchyually" incanate.The theropod stans,who are basically sports fans but with large meat eating dinosaurs. The type that will post tl;dr wordwalls in a carnivora forums vs thread.Then you have the jw/jp fans who just like watching dinosaurs run amok on ther silver screen. The paleonerds really fucking hate the stans and jp fans because they are anal cunts who think they are better because they like the "real" dinosaurs. basically ignore paleotards
bouta say, that image is straight outta morrison
I just want giant armadillos
I think this is meant to be some kind of therapod, but it seems like a reasonable match for one of those bipedal land-crocs. Maybe postosuchus? Did any of them have even small arms?
>>87573684looks like an ally allosaur reconstruction
>>87573154The 'awesomebro' terminology is probably just RPGnet-types trying to shoehorn everything they don't like into their 'toxic masculinity' thought-killer, but I think anyone who is passionate about a subject is likely to have strong opinions about deviating from their vision. In the case of adding typical 'action toy' details like more spikes, 80s style exaggerated textures, etc. it's going to be especially prone to splitting opinions, because you're going to have some where it hits their nostalgia sweet-spot and makes them overlook its flaws, and others who find it childish and off-putting. You don't see it for ground sloths because not enough people care about them to either make them commonly appear in 'heavy metal' versions in games, or to be upset if they do.Without risking brain-rot by reading RPGnet, that's about as good an analysis as I can come up with from a second-hand account.
>>87573154The paleo comunity is very weird, just enjoy dinos and don't care what those cunts says, they are probably scalies, trannies or both at the same time and will ruin your fun.
>>87573031Rhizodus probably could work pretty well as a giant killer freshwater fish.>7m long, carnivorous lobe-finned fish with fangs
>>87574670A lungfish the size of a camper van, with teeth like butcher's knives. That's a hell of a way to let your players know they pissed you off.
Behold! The dire-pecker!
>>87576608It will first impale you on its beak, then swallow you whole.
>>87572477What the fuck is that Anteosaurus? The lion mane seems cool but fucking hell the head shape looks nowhere near like the real animal.
>>87577590Also speaking of Anteosaurus, this is what you get when you mix a Bear and a T-Rex together. You get the biggest synapsid carnivore to have ever lived. This animal lived in the middle permian period, inbetween the dimetrodons and gorognopsians but a lot fucking scarier. For starters, it has convergently evolved a bone crushing bite and a skull nearly identical to a T-Rex... Nearly 200 millions years before a T-Rex even became a thing. Anteosaurus by some estimates go around 500-600 kg but that is a really low-ball estimate as the actual estimates would put this animal well over a ton in weight making it the largest carnivorous synapsid or mammalian-like animal to have ever lived. And the most mindblowing fact about this animal is the fact it's brain case has been scanned and it's found that it's brain has been specialized in locomotion movement... I.e>Pic Related was capable of fucking running at high speeds
>>87572477>>87577590Therapsids and Synapsids are at their best when you put their fur back on and start giving them a few more mammalian qualities. They ideally should be depicted as the unsettling mammalian-reptilian--transitional-hybrid creature they're meant to be.
>>87572477>What's your favourite fringe-science, weird theory, or outdated idea about prehistoric creatures?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZbmywzGAVsThis right here.
>>87579685I trained an AI to make these once. Unfortunately, some they're all scowling, it was hard to make them shut their mouths. I could probably give it another go.
>>87573031Not fish, but Dinocaridida would be interesting. They're stem arthropods from the Cambrian era that include several extinct species like Anomalocaris, Opabinia, Pambdelurion and Kerygmachela.
>>87580048Dinocaridida also includes all the Radiodonta that are related to Anomalocaris canadensis.
>>87573412I'm not really in the paleocommunity but I'm a dinokid grown up into a bird fan, so I just wanna see therapods depicted as bird brains. Is that a common "archetype" within the paleocommunity?>>87573547I think giant relatives of modern animals are neat in general. I like the giant koala because it's not even really megafauna since it was only about a third larger than regular koalas, so like, just a little under a chimp (though much lighter). Absolutely gigantic
>>87574476Based radiodont poster
>>87579685Idk seems interesting and I could see the reconstructions of Neanderthals being a bit too anthropocentric but he falls into the same trappings he criticises>Don't depict Neanderthals as skinwalkers wearing human skin>Instead depict them as skinwalkers wearing chimpanzee skinTho I would run Neanderthals as Orcs, they seem to have been absolute powerhouses compared to modern humans. Interesting theory I once heard was that this caused them to forego range more than homo sapiens, as they could survive a melee much better. Homo sapiens specialising harder in ranged weaponry would have made them more successful in the long runBtw>>87573364What the fuck is up with dino brains, they look so weird. Why can't they just have round brains like normal people
>>87580478Human's round brain is pretty weird desu.
>>87577667One of the coolest things in Dino Crisis 2 was using laser spheres to fling them into lava.
>>87580074>Is that a common "archetype" within the paleocommunity?Absolutely. There's a reason why picrel was spammed so much. There's just as much butthurt about paleofans who put feathers on dinosaurs that likely did not have them as there are over unfeathered dinosaurs.
>>87577590>>87577667How the fuck was this thing capable of running at high speeds? It looks barely capable of running in the first place.
>>87582543In much like the same way Hippos and Rhinos do today
>>87580048Sadly, a lot of the nastier-looking ones are only known from some fragmented claws, so hard to be accurate about overall size and so on.I know I can just make shit up, but my current project is meant to be somewhat accurate to current scientific knowledge (and due to it being GURPS, fairly specific information is needed for some attributes).>>87580478I think you've really put your finger on a big flaw in Vendramini's thinking. As dinosaurs demonstrate dramatically, the species which lie 'between' two existing animals are often completely different to both of them.Still, neanderthals-as-monsters works well. Michael Crichton's Eaters of the Dead is a really good example and pretty compatible with Them and Us.I don't like using them as 'orcs' though, because I don't think strong, primitive, or ancient are really good matches for orcs. Orcs should be sickly industrial monsters. Neanderthals seem a better fit to 'trolls' to me.
What prehistoric animal would make for a good horse replacement? In another thread like this someone mentione giant sloths.I've got a setting with two prominent continents and I would like to give one something else than horses.
Extinct Probosciidae were literally the best animals to walk the earth. Just look at those goofy ass beasts with their hilarious tusks. I include at least one of these boys in all the settings I create.
>>87586751I use speculative descendants of relict Palaotheres. One-ton horse-like creatures with fangs and inflatable proboscises.
>>87573412>>87580854Why are there so many trannies into paleo? Has to be the autism
>>87582543by moving its legs very quickly
>>87586788Elephants really are just such an insufferably fucking cool animal.
>>87589979Autists tend to have weird sexual paraphilias, decade or two ago those fags would had been furries instead.
>>87584518If Radiodonts are out what about Eurypteridae? Giant Sea Scorpions have a good chunk more known about them, and you can't go wrong with scorpions...even if they're not even actually Scorpions.
>>87580505It's literally just a bigger and more wrinkled monkey brain.
>>87591235Lots of them are trans furries too, its fucking weird. At first I wouldn't care but they are just obnoxious and will try to shut you up with "cry more awesomebro" still of replies.>>87586751Just use horses bro.
>>87591684There are lots of oldie animals than could be used for humans than lasted until the holocene.
Why are they so cute?
>>87591704Long snots and the ability to open the mouth so wide, so they could try to snap watermelons and the like.
>>87591673>Just use horses bro.Or if you want to be a hipster, some ancient horse. Hipparion was about the same size as the Mongolian wild horse or Tarpan. Sure, it ain't the most exciting answer given that it is just a fucking horse with vestigial toes, but hey, it just works.
>>87591785Anon look at the pic I posted, it was a mild joke to use ancient horses like Chalicotheriums and the like.
did you know there were prehistoric snooty french waiters?
>>87582543Presumably one of those critters that looks pretty slow but can be surprisingly fast when it wants to. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAozf7pb4iY
Those things did fly.
>>87582543In the case of rex, we dont actually know, studies have concluded its legs would break at anything faster than a speedwalk to it being faster than usain bolt at a sprint.
>>87594878It's another case of the spinosaurus, than every few weeks they change how the thing lived or whatever? Just assume you don't know and stop embarassing yourself changing of opinion every few weeks.
>>87572477Stafylitrogonopithecus - 'Grape Eating Ape'Head: Sloped back head with very human eyes, jutting jaw, fangs, monkey earsArms and hands: Arms roughly down to just past an individual’s kneecap, very long hands and fingersTorso: Broad-chestedPosture: Slouchback stooped forwardLegs: short and fatFeet: broad with short fat toesHair color/type: Long and thin hairs that start out dark brown and age towards russet-orangeSkintone: Dark beigeSize: 4 ft 1 inchHabitat: Hardwood and Softwood forests
>>87595588Noice, going at this theme, what its everyone prefered bestiary/way to express a table for monsters?
>>87595125I wouldnt put it like that, its more of a general thing with the biodynamics of enormoous theropods in general. Animals like rex were probably approching the physical limit of how big a bipend can get, and today we have dont have any bipeds approaching the weight of an adult african bull elepant to compare, so were stuck sort of winging it with educated guesses based on bones alone.
>>87596040I try to avoid heavy statting so that it can be set to whatever system is needed. Note that staf and this other are entirely fictional but I have tried to make it so that they could have existed.Flexibilistaturopithecis – ‘flexible stature ape’Head: Sloped back with a jutting robust jaw, colorful eyes, and omnivorous teethArms and Hands: Wrist slightly below an individual’s kneecapsTorso: Broad chested with a long backbone and low pelvis, partially hairlessPosture: Very slouched but obviously bipedalLegs: short but limberFeet: Very similar to a chimp’s foot but bigger and strongerHair color/type: Bushy long and dark where hair is presentSkintone: Dark tanSize: 3 feet 9 inchesHabitat: Savannahs and Forests
>>87596306Educated guesses, aka I had a dream...
How accurate does the scenario must be? Because sometimes the cool animals didnt lived at the same spot or time!
>>87595588>>87596473Grape eating ape gets its name because it chews grapes and berries and then spits the gristle into a natural container such as a busted open coconut shell, where it is then covered with leaves for 30 to 60 days, after which it is applied to their bodies as an anti-snake paste, since snakes don't like the smell or taste of it. Flexible stature ape gets its name because it switches between movement on all fours and equilibrious walking, (that is walking straight backed on just two limbs), usually doing this to travel on narrow branches or to look over the landscape (such as to stand up and peek over a big bush).
>>87591673I've seen porn of these.
>>87577590>>87577667The thing that absolutely mind-breaks me about Anteosaurus was that in average, it was larger than an Allosaurus. Let me reiterate it, IT WAS LARGER THAN A FUCKING ALLOSAURUS.
I like to use Arctic dinosaurs for cold weather environments rather than Ice Age animals. Players always expect to see mammoths and sabertoothed cats, so encountering a Pachyrhinosaurus or Nanuqsaurus is always a shock.
>>87599190Does this mean that your hot places are filled with ice age tropical animals?
>>87572477I love Barinasuchus because not only because it's the perfect real world retrosaur but also because it's fucked that the largest land predator of the cenozoic is still a giant reptile.
>>87599229Triassic, Permian, Eocene, and Oligocene usually. The seas are just a mish-mash of eras.
>>87597222Burian is great. He had a way of making his paleoart look like he was drawing from life.
DUCK KAIJU! DUCK KAIJU!
>>87599307Mammals were lucky, we wont likely get a break like this one again
something that strikes me about prehistoric ages is how dense they were with competing animals compared to the Holocine, we really are still on the heels of mass extinction and don't realize how much more dense the biosphere normally is
>>87599307learning about Cenozoic land Crocs and Triassic Raoisuchians has been a blessing for a dino fan of my flavor, as I love dinosaurs of both modern and retro interpretations, so learning that in essence both existed is just splendid
>>87596969Both Grape Eating Ape and Flexible stature ape use a tool set similar to what real monkeys and apes use, the main big difference is that both these opithicae purposely alter stone wood and bone, and that when it's altered it's typically similar to what one sees in the old and Middle stone age, as well as the chalcolithic tools. The other main difference is that they purposely hold onto these tools until they are used up or break. The tools they use are made of wood stone bone vine twine bark tooth claw shell leaf stalk and stem and range from razor sharp stone Butcher knives to honey dipper stems of plants. I think that this abstract comprehension that a tool is only to be discarded when it's broken, useless, or used up, is essential to get on the path towards true sentience. At present I'm envisioning them as similar to what one might call a Bigfoot, and capable of communication through monkey and ape sounds, not language, unless perhaps sign language of some sort. And here's one more.Kladikounopithecus – ‘branch swaying ape’Head: Sloped nearly diagonal but with gracile jaw, sensitive, alert eyes, and small specialized teethArms and Hands: Wrist slightly above an individual’s kneecaps, gibbon similarTorso: slightly broad-chested with a long spine and low pelvisPosture: Tilted forward but bipedalLegs: Short but dexterousFeet: Very similar to a human footHair color/type: Silky fuzzy and light colorsSkintone: Pitch-blackSize: 4 feet 2 inchesHabitat: Jungles
>>87600359I like all these new Chinese dinosaurs and think they're all really neat looking. Shame that most of them are probably faked.
>>87600429Look into Poposaurus for something that might've become a classic retro Deinonychus/Velociraptor.
>>87601314Oh yeah Im onto them, basically the next step after Raoisuchians
>>87595588>grape ape>88COME ON NOW
>>87580478I've actually used Neanderthals, especially mutant ones based on the stereotypical view of them as hunchbacked ogres, as Orc equiivalents.Speaking of, I'm using Orca and Orca ancestors as Orc equivalents as well. Are there any ancestors that were still top apexes? I'm already tempted to use the wolf-like ancestors as attack dogs.
>>87601364Take a look at the devonian period, tons of deadly sea life forms there. The Cambrian is also interesting. Anomalocarids make fantastic sea monsters.
>>87602090I brought these up earlier, but based Cambrian bro.>>87580048 and >>87580062
>>87602090Oh, I know, I just mean ones specific to the Orca lineage. I'm already using Dunkleosteus, Helicoprion, Hybodus, etc. as hero races.I kind of wish we had a Hybodus depiction that wasn't so goofy-cute, though.
>>87602757What do you think of the idea of advanced nonhumanoid aliens making rare guest appearances in the paleo-scene? The two groups I had in mind are The Elder Things and the Dyurn, the Elder Things are of course Lovecraft's weird aliens from the south pole, who would be in their time-travel age at this time of earth's history, and the Dyurn are slimy thoroughly unpleasant deepest-darkest-seas lifeforms which resemble a lion's mane jellyfish but they are in their Interstellar UFO's era. I feel it's not totally incongruous to the setting because both things appear to be things that fit in the time period due to their very unusual appearances. Of the two the Elder Things are the greater threat, as Dyurn colonies are at sea-bed level.
>>87573766No, you have it on the money. The user in question complains that they should have made them 'fantasy monsters' and also complains about the Triceratops equivalent having properties of a horny toad, namely by being able to shoot acidic blood.Same user also complained about the spikes on the Fleshraker.Someone else complained about the Battletitan's name being more evocative of sauropods.
>>87601314You can go a bit farther than that when it comes to crocs doing dinosaur LARP. Smok fits the 1990s scaly medium-sized theropod description to the t, and it was most likely more closely related to crocodiles than dinosaurs.
>>87602863Oh it absolutely works. Especially with animals from the Cambrian to the Permian, everything is so fucking alien.
>>87603106My take is this, if the animals are supposed to be the actual animals, try to stick close to grounded, if they are fantasy beasts inspired by said animals go wild, also we totally should see a heavy metal dark fantasy ground sloth, armored up like a cave troll and with metal extensions on its claws, imagine Norsca or the Ogres using a ground sloth in their armies.
>>87573766Most uses of "awesomebro" I've seen online are on youtubers reviewing paleo documentaries, usually ones that present themselves as educational only to go a painfully low effort route that clearly halfassed the research. I do think "Awesomebro" is a poor catchall for this, I'd just call it low effort donovan bait.
>>87603315Is that a Welsh fossil? It sounds Welsh. Either way naming an animal something simple like this is based.
>>87603421Under rated beast, those antlers could fuck things up. Just look at what the moose does today
I never understood the gag of it getting glasses when it painted
>>87603424Ahh, suppose that's part of me hoping Based Wales can find a dragon for themselves. Still, we need more simple names for prehistoric reptiles. I think we actually are abusing the saurus syllable in paleontology a bit.
>>87603431Because art is for NERDS!
>>87599307Learning about all the suchus was a threat, lots of cool land crocs.
>>87601003What kind of world is this, for adventures or to please your world building needs? Because it seems like a goold critter for low levels players to interact it.
>>87580478MY orcs are also based in "frazetta neanderthals/neander predator theory" and some other inspirations (the equivalent of the lotr orc are hobgoblins). Really like the most primal, stalking humanoid for low levels threats.
>>87579685I need to retrain this AI again.
>>87603685Do you have more pics of monstrous neanderthals?
>>87603963Look up the movie Fire and Ice. It's got evel neanderthal ape men.
>>87580478>Tho I would run Neanderthals as Orcs, they seem to have been absolute powerhouses compared to modern humansSo a monstrous version of Eaters of the Dead wendols then.
>>87604033Yep, one of the influences I go about, totems, adapted to live in the caverns/Intra-earth, all kinds of weapons made of bones/ceramics and resisns, cult to weird gods...
>>87603650For both adventures and world building.
>>87601003Kladikounopithecus gets its name because when it uses intimidation behavior it doesn't strip or alter the dead branches it swings, and purposely picks recent branches so that other animals can't really tell how big it is because the two branches it's waving around still have branchlets and some leaves. It also gets the name because when it is young and learning to climb it flex juggles branches with both arms and legs.
>>87603685Wasnt the neander predator theory rooted in some sort of racism?
>>87606146No, it's pure specism. I read the man's book. He does think it's responsible for the instinct of racism, but he doesn't believe that's a good thing. However, some paleoanthropologist types see shitting on neanderthals as racism.
>>87606479I mean kinda? The line is blurry, they are a distinct human species, but they are still human. And the predator theory reads more like a narrative of a beast that "deserved" extinction, and the idea of animals deserving to die off has become a rather gauche talking point in modern paleontology.
Any books I can read to learn more about dinos and other large animals?
>>87606588Princeton Dinosaur Field Guide
>>87607252>meanwhile back home...
>>87607252Not going to lie, as it's own setting the fallen kingdon Bad ending could have been an interesting story.
>>87606146I can tell you the whole theory its 100% bullshit. but in terms of a /tg/ thead its a pretty coll monster to include, something evolved spesicically to hunt humanoids
>>87607252>>87607470>Implying the Indoraptor and their handler aren't also fucking...>>87607471>Not going to lie, as it's own setting the fallen kingdon Bad ending could have been an interesting story.Eh, Dominion did kind of lean into it, but it was the more realistic "Corpos gonna Corpo" so we got black market dino fight pits and ceratopsid meat ranching.
>>87602863>Elder Things are of course Lovecraft's weird aliens from the south pole, who would be in their time-travel age at this time of earth's history...I think you might be confusing the Elder Things (from At the Mountains of Madness) with the Great Race of Yith (from The Shadow Out of Time). In TSOoT, the only time-travelling Elder Thing was one which had been mind-swapped by a Yithian (trapping it in the body of the 'cone being' that the Yithian was using).But overall, I'm for it. Lovecraft made some explicit references to the weirdness of Cambrian life in both TSOoT and AtMoM, I believe, and generally the whole 'mythos' uses prehistoric animals a lot (frequently referenced in Clark Ashton Smith's Hyperborea stories, for example, and in Robert E. Howard's Hyborian age).
>>87606146It's more based on pure idiocy and cuckold fetishism (seriously, lots of focus on helpless homo saps. being made to watch neanderthal bullies rape their girls). So, sort of racism, but the kind which gets called 'anti-racist' these days, rather than the stuff which gets called 'racist' (which is mostly just accurate biology at this point).
>>87573031>Seems like there's loads of stuff out there about awesome monstrous land animals, and aquatic reptiles, but very little about fish. Especially jawless and ray-finned fish, which seem to only get mentioned as being terribly important by palaeontologists, but never get the pop-science treatment that dinosaurs, etc. do.Mostly because the freakiest examples are still living; Like the Cookiecutter Shark.This one is a bit deformed thanks to preservation, but they literally cut out circular sections of flesh with their arguer like jaws.>>87580074>I'm a dinokid grown up into a bird fan, so I just wanna see therapods depicted as bird brains.As a poultry raiser in my own youth, I question what exactly you are inferring with "Bird Brains"...>>87586751>What prehistoric animal would make for a good horse replacement? In another thread like this someone mentione giant sloths.I argued that Giant Sloths would make a better Oxen replacement than Horse; Sloths have power but almost no speed.>>87589979>Why are there so many trannies into paleo?...Why do you keep injecting Identity Politics into a Paleo thread?!>>87594878>its legs would break at anything faster than a speedwalkBut how FAST did it Speedwalk?!>>87595125>spinosaurus>>87596306>I wouldnt put it like that, its more of a general thing with the biodynamics of enormoous theropods in general.Plus we just didn't have enough bones of Spinosaurs to realize it was a Crockoduck, so with Horner's T. rex beef always looking for "bigger, badder predator!">>87603635>Learning about all the suchus was a threat, lots of cool land crocs.This will probably make my Vertebrate Paleontology professor happy to hear!
>>87608068Don't I hate paleontofags, bunch of no fun faggots or the worst kind of furries, and hwe have a pair already in this thread.s.>>87605385I read acounts of bigfoots/almastys than did something like that, and even made crude dwellings.
>>87608006I knew that there was only one definitively known time traveler Elder Thing but I also know how unfathomably intelligent Elder Things are, and it seems plausible to me that they would be smart enough to build a time machine that is at least as complex and powerful as the hg wells time machine. On the other hand their lifespan is many millions of years long, they may not need time machines for realistically practical interstellar space travel. I mainly put them in routine-time-travel level of society as a fast easy way to explain how they got to the primal world's current Era. I was trying to think of a way to throw in a few rare encounter guest stars that are a major threat to everything around them including apex predators and exp level 20 or above player characters. Also when I said rare I meant you can go through multiple whole games without ever encountering one, so on an encounter roll there's probably just 1, 2, or 3 numbers that result in an encounter with an Elder thing, and even fewer for Dyurn. Dyurn use ESP instead of sight or hearing but have touch taste and smell, each individual having between 60 and 300 limbs ranging in size from 7 feet to 400 feet long and usually about the same width as a pencil, dyurn's bodies ranging from 4 feet wide to around 70 feet wide and from around 3 feet tall to around 12 feet tall, the creatures floating midair when not in water, typically due to a visibly glowing organ in the center of the bottom half that resembles a clenched fist squeezing a messy egg yolk.
>>87586751Birds: Brontornis, Dinornis, Dromornis, Pachystruthio.Dinosaurs: Pachycephalosaurus, probably a bunch more.Mammals: Titanohyrax (half-way between gopher and elephant), Coryphodon (possibly too short-legged for cavalry), Phoberomys (giant mouse), Archaeotherium (or Entelodon), Makapania (goat-cow), Metidriochoerus (giant warthog), Anayatherium (tusked moose-lama thing), Subhyracodon or Trigonias (micro-rhinos), Procoptodon (giant running kangaroo).Older synapsids: Kannemeyeria (dicynodont), Estemmenosuchus (dinocephalian). Possibly too sprawling to be fast and efficient long-distance runners.
>>87608068Oh with bird brain I just mean act like birds. Birds behave so much differently from mammals. Small animals are skittish, but a sparrow moves in a way no mouse ever would. Pigeons might be kinda dumb, but when they come try and steal some crumbs it's completely different from how a dog might do it. And my faves, corvids, they have this intelligence about them that almost mirrors our own, with such curiosity, but always keeping their distance (from me at least, I'd love to befriend a crow one day). I don't know, it always feels like what goes on in a bird's head is something similar but ultimately not the same as what goes through a mammal's, and it's reflected in how they act and move
>>87606496>The line is blurry, they are a distinct human species, but they are still human.When two species compete for a niche the outcomes are either extinction or hybridization.
>>87608134A long while back I tried a little experiment in which I made Apeman a racial class similar to D&D1 having elves and dwarves as both races and classes. It seems relevant here.ApemanBenefit - Many types of unique interactions and options with primates, your skill-tree includes virtually every survival skill there is.Drawback - Your intelligence and wisdom are very seldom above 09-12 out of 20 possible.Note: All -opithecus hominins have this class, Old world monkey folk, New world monkey folk, Lemur (mammal) folk, Gibbon folk, and Loris folk, all have Apeman as a class. Skill suite - Simple weapons, Survival: native land type, Navigation: native land type, Climb, Leap, Herbal Medicine, Paleo-tools, Track animal, Distance walking, Foraging, Butchering, Sing, Alertness, Athleticism
Uuuuuohhhh Miniceras erotic ToT
>>87610296it took me way too damn long to realise this was maisy and the indoraptori kind of wish we got to see the i. rex and indoraptor tag team
>>87572477Izaea, on the off chance that you are OP:You're a fucking idiot. Despite my frustration, I still considered you my friend, right up to the moment you decided to tweet that we weren't.No one cares that you've made fucking soup, or about what an animal's dick tastes like.
>>87612773>No one cares that you've made fucking soup, or about what an animal's dick tastes like.Are these 2 related?
>>87612846To the Chinese, yes >>87608177I fucking love that picture, makes me want to do something with Jurassic Park in 1800's London, imagine the Hunter from the third movie in full Victorian Big Game Hunter regalia trying to bag a Paleoart'd Tyrannosaur
>>87612978Honestly a Martini-Henry should be able to oneshot any dinosaur by hitting them in the lung.
>>87610457Are those supposed to be like porcupine quills?
>>87608550I think Pachys are better suited for goats... or even donkeys, given donkeys are apparently worse than dogs when attacking.>>87586751You COULD use Pparasaurolophus for a horse, but I don't know how suited they'd be to being anything like horses. Apparently, they're now fully quadrupedal, so there's that.
>>87613815>6'1" walks into a room full of 5'11"s
>>87612773picrelbut also? don't take twitter too seriously. there is something about that fucking site that makes already-tenuous internet relationships (romantic or otherwise) fly the fuck apart. ive unfortunately gotten used to sudden blocks in RP/G communities because one of my characters mentions sex
>>87613004I think GURPS is probably one of the more generous systems when it comes to rifles against large monsters achieving one-shot kills.A Martini-Henry rifle does 5d large piercing damage.Using the dino stats from GURPS Lands Out of Time (retro-style dinosaurs, but similar to modern interpretations in terms of size and durability) a brachiosaurus (largest dino in the book) has DR 5 and 92 HP. 5d6-5 averages 12.5 penetrating damage, tripled if it hits vital organs (I think lungs qualify), for around 38 HP average injury. That's not enough to qualify as a major wound, or put the animal anywhere near needing to make death checks. Using the optional bleeding rules (and assuming they scale with HP as most injury rules do) the dinosaur needs to make a straight HT roll every minute to avoid losing more HP to bleeding, and three consecutive successes are needed to stop the bleeding. With around a 74% chance of success on each roll, odds are that the bleeding will stop in around 5-10 minutes with relatively little loss of HP. The loss of the 146 or more HP (17 failed rolls) needed to risk death is pretty unlikely.However, I think your estimate that .557/450 M-H is adequate for dino-hunting is way off. It wasn't really considered enough for hunting elephants, hippos, or rhinos.In terms of muzzle-energy to body mass, the ~2,600 Joule M-H round against a 50-tonne dinosaur is like using a ~260 Joule .22LR round against a 5-tonne elephant, a 13 Joule UK-legal air rifle against a 250 kg donkey, or a 1-joule airsoft pellet against a 20 kg dog. In all those cases, you're unlikely to do much more than irritate the animal unless you hit it in the eye or something.(Arguably muzzle-energy to body mass isn't a perfect metric to estimate damage effects, but it's somewhere in the right ballpark, I think).
>>87615264Against an 8 tonne tyrannosaur, things look a bit better. In GURPS that would by 41 HP and maybe DR 2-3 (the Tyrannosaur in LOoT is a bit smaller, with just 34 HP and DR 2, which doesn't change things a lot). One hit to the vitals will drop it to below 0 HP and require bleeding rolls at -2 which gives decent odds of reaching fully negative HP and risking death.If using the optional 'realistic injury' rules from GURPS Martial Arts, shots to the vitals are more dangerous, with an additional -4 to bleeding rolls (and making them twice as often, but that doesn't make much difference to the final outcome). In that case it would be quite plausible for the brachiosaurus to bleed out from a rifle hit. On the other hand, it would also make air rifles plausibly able to kill people with the same mechanics, so the realism of that is somewhat questionable (of course, the bleeding rules do say that the GM should decide when to use them on a case-by-case basis, and common sense would say you aren't going to bleed out from a tiny pellet wound).
>>87576608>,I thought it was wearing a beret in the thumb.
>>87580478 Neanderthal is party tank. Sapiens is ranger.
>>87584518>> Michael Crichton's Eaters of the Dead and Bone Tomahawk.
>>87618316Where would you put >>87610064 in your party? I feel like they could be a highly valuable party member in the right sort of party. I'm on the fence about where precisely they generally fall in the hierarchy of tank ranger support etc.
>>87612978 Well Doyle's Lost World and the Challenger Expedition gives you a supply. There was also also a sequel (and I want to say it was by John Brunner but I honestly forget) where they return the surviving dinos to the Plateau. (The old T.V. series The lost world could also get "modern" PC's involved with dinos and other creatures) Hollow Earth Expedition might also be useful.
https://futurism.com/the-byte/dinosaurs-face-complete-with-its-skin So they now (with a "bigger picture" think the spikes were more for mate attraction.This one...https://futurism.com/the-byte/t-rex-smart-monkeys?fbclid=IwAR1hjCjtsred3S0e6JW9sO6dXdMFOtOg2wPnPgTnt1NI7g6pb8oq_qY_vLwI'm not sure about.
>>87618579The brainy rex is in contention. While potential trial neuron density is impressive the brain is still arranged in a manner more analogous to crocodiles and birds than to primates, meaning the way that brain capacity was allocated is way different, abstract thinking isnt super high on the priority list for an animal built like a Tyrannosaur, but it lends credence to it being an animal with shocking amounts of sensory awareness, and a pet theory of mine that they may have communicated to eachother via subsonic frequencies, not unlike modern elephants
>>87613785the issue with Parasaurolophus and hadrosaurs in general is they are closer to the size of an elephant than a horse
>>87618939Tenontosaurus or maybe some other ornithopod would probably betteror even Zuniceratops
smart chalicothere as an available race
Ark has some really cool journals. Always wondered about repurposing these into a custom kind of like, ancient epoch monster manual.
>>87590035>You look out the window and see this stampede>Instant Lovecraft-tier insanity
>>87618649given the whole hubhub about T. rex "not being able to roar" (even though crocs/gators ARE capable of roaring), this is aptmy ex from florida used to tell me about this gator that hung out at a watering hole; for whatever reason it was completely nonhostile towards humans. kids kept poking it to get a rise out of it but it never did, and it apparently greeted humans like teguunfortunately for it, it just made some dude hunting for croc tails' job easier
>>87620321this is cool and we need more unusual non-dinosaur player races. any more like it, anon?
>>87573346average tuesday night in chicago
Anyne does autistic ecossitems for they games? Like try to balance the prey, the hunters and the different ecological niches,even the ones than really don't matter for play like small herbivores etc?
>>87573154The vast majority of dinosaur enthusiasts don't have any problem whatsoever with "artistic license" unless the depiction meant to be true-to-life, which is the problem they tend to have with shitter paleoartists - who are also the ones who tend to get the most attention and by a wide margin. Paleo nerds don't care if your fantasy Tyrannosauridae breathe fire or are based on Victorian art or even that Jurassic park is full of inaccuracies but do not appreciate dinosaurs being depicted "realistically" on a specious basis and then these depictions being passed off uncritically as "what they (might have ;^)) looked like". There are always errors and inaccuracies made in good faith here and there and the science is always being revised and updated but there is a mountain of evidence that T-Rex was not, in fact, a "heckin' fluffy chonker", next to zero information on coloration for anything, nothing but inferences for behavior, etc. yet all of those things make for more eyes on your art and better ratings for your TV programs so they're extremely common.
Tyrannosaurs in general are pretty boring. Take the Carnosauria pill and realize that they both look cooler than the no arm fatties and usually have better sounding names.
>>87624880Explain the obsesion they have with feathers then, and loling at the dinosaurs enthusiasts not caring, they have constants meltdowns on twitter for the dumbest stuff.
>>87624916Abelisaurids is where is at.
>>87624935There's always constant meltdowns on twitter for the dumbest stuff. That's got nothing to do with paleo or any other group, it's got to do with twitter
>>87624960What is the current meltdown on Twitter again? Ar tannies screaming how people buying that new Harry Potter game is a literal act of genocide or have Twitter addicts found some new thing to be butthurt about?
>>87624969The chinese balloon.
>>87624960I still remember the amounts of butthurt when they found a posible deinonichus I think it was ,a big raptor, than could have had scale prints, literally thousands of people crying about it.
>>87624935>Explain the obsesion they have with feathers then,In the last few decades there's been increasing evidence that some non-avian dinosaurs had feathers and/or protofeathers so shitter paleoartists then started slapping tons of feathers onto basically every theropod without any evidence other than inference and this became a meme, even when it went against physical evidence. We have literally hundreds of skin imprints from non-avian theropods and the current consensus is that infants and juveniles might have had plumaceous feathers (down, basically) but developed scutes as they got older and that some smaller theropods might have had feathers and/or protofeathers for various reasons including thermal regulation and mating displays. There's also recently been evidence of some ornithischia having filamentous structures so these same shitter paleoartists took it as a license to dress all of them up like they're in a pride parade.>and loling at the dinosaurs enthusiasts not caring, they have constants meltdowns on twitter for the dumbest stuff.Laughing at meltdowns is one of the classic pastimes of the internet and twitter is full of people losing their shit over nothing anyway.
>>87625085Something like an elephant would be a pretty reasonable comparison for big theropods and feathers desu. You probably wouldn't see that many feathers after its chick-phase unless it was living in a cold environment where maintaining body heat was important (think a mammoth vs. an elephant); there might be some, but you're looking for them on a 5+ ton animal, so chances are you won't see them unless they served a visual display purpose.
>>87572957That hippo in the back is literally the epitome of the meme of "How aliens would draw a hippo if they saw the bones of one vs how a hippo is"
>>87624946>AbelisauridsAlso known as horned sausages with legs.
>>87625113This us why the latest big dino documentary specifically depicted TRex that way. Bald adult with fluffy kids. And the only sub species that was feathered in adulthood was living in the arctic.
>>87623746They can totally roar, its just not likely to sound like the bug trumpet bellows the movies often use.
>>87624621Small herbivore could come up in a survival situation, hunting emergency rations and such
Dinofolk ye or nay?
>>87627526No. But dino riders, yes.
>>87627526Depends on the setting.In a setting with lots of other fantasy races or aliens, maybe use judgement with adding another, if it's a setting made around the idea of dinofolk, go wild with different kinds even.
>>87610014>I don't know, it always feels like what goes on in a bird's head is something similar but ultimately not the same as what goes through a mammal's, and it's reflected in how they act and moveEh, people can sometime have no idea how another's mind works.>>87618649>While potential trial neuron density is impressive the brain is still arranged in a manner more analogous to crocodiles and birds than to primates, meaning the way that brain capacity was allocated is way different, abstract thinking isnt super high on the priority list for an animal built like a Tyrannosaur, but it lends credence to it being an animal with shocking amounts of sensory awareness, and a pet theory of mine that they may have communicated to eachother via subsonic frequencies, not unlike modern elephantsAgain, never underestimate something just because you think it shouldn't be "Intelligent.">>87624621>Anyne does autistic ecossitems for they games? Like try to balance the prey, the hunters and the different ecological niches,even the ones than really don't matter for play like small herbivores etc?Usually the satire I use for mudcore assholes complaining about "New World Crops," GIANT POTATOS!!!Seriously, with the crazy shit you see at the top of these foodwebs these systems must have stupid caloric densities.>>87624916>Take the Carnosauria pill and realize that they both look cooler than the no arm fatties and usually have better sounding names.>>87624946>>87625750Bah, stubby shitbulls lacking MAGNIFICENT Post-ocular Ridges!>>87625113>Something like an elephant would be a pretty reasonable comparison for big theropods and feathers desu.Whole point of Gigantothermy!>>87627526>Dinofolk ye or nay?>>87627662>Depends on the setting.>In a setting with lots of other fantasy races or aliens, maybe use judgement with adding another, if it's a setting made around the idea of dinofolk, go wild with different kinds even.Yeah, are we talking Civilized Raptors or Voth?
>>87627590scale fucker go away
>>87627731Speaking of pitbulls, imagine what domestication would do to some dinosaurs, sad scrunch faced Raptors with way too much plumage, though on the other side youd get specialized tracking and hunting raptors.
>>87628182>imagine what domestication would do to some dinosaursNo need to imagine, just google fancy pigeon or silkie chicken if you want to see some bird toadline shit.
>>87623955Drepanosaurs and Sumenia are pretty based for this
>>87628340>the industrial revolution and its consequences
>>87628391Nah, these things are some billion year old Chinese breed. Outside of weird feathers they also have like 5 or 6 toes per foot and their flesh is colored black.
>>87628428ancient chinese industrial revolution?
>>87628182I imagine they would also breed them for fights.
>Giant bone-crushing dogs, you say?
Imagine a world where "dogs" were a result of dog-like hyenas being domesticated instead of wolves being domesticated.
>>87628182>though on the other side youd get specialized tracking and hunting raptors.I actually loved that the trafficker in JW Dominion was being snobbish about her Attack Raptors being "Purebred.">>87628340>No need to imagine, just google fancy pigeon or silkie chicken if you want to see some bird toadline shit.>>87628428>Nah, these things are some billion year old Chinese breed. Outside of weird feathers they also have like 5 or 6 toes per foot and their flesh is colored black.Hell, "Crested Chickens" are an entire group of Breeds, I personally raised Black Polish!>>87628452>I imagine they would also breed them for fights.Also, due mostly to Cock-fighting, Chickens have a Death toll greater than all North American Mountain Lion attacks; Several Hundred!
>>87628340Great heavens! It's the last two living soul train dancers!
>>87628682I never been into cock fighting, but as an inspiration it could be very neat, any anon with experience with it?
>>87628680Thanks God we got dogs and not fugly hyenas.
>>87627526Dinofolk are fun in settings that don't take themselves too seriously. Pulp adventures, sci-fantasy, Chrono Trigger, etc.
>>87629319On average, hyenas are better looking than canines. That is mostly due to the fact that both aardwolf and striped hyena are ridiculously good-looking though. Spotted hyena is pretty ugly, and brown hyena is solid meh/10. Canines are brought down by a whole slew of absolutely hideous South American critters, raccoon dogs, as well as domestic dogs producing abominations like shitpulls and pugs. African painted dogs easily take the number one spot when it comes to the best looking dogs and hyenas though.
>>87630414>absolutely hideous South American crittersSay that to my face, fucker, and not online, see what happens.
>>87627526Dinofolk seem like the lamest way to have intelligent dinosaurs. In general, furries are pretty shit compared to just having intelligent animals (sometimes with added hands or whatever). I think the only exceptions are minotaurs and deep ones and both of them have serious literary credentials to grant them a bit of gravitas.
>>87630539But none of that is sexy
>>87630539>minotaurs and deep ones... and I forgot tHotB's swine things, broo/warhammer beastmen, skaven and maybe the morocanth, which all get a pass due to a combination of nostalgia, being genuinely creepy, and having a lot more to them than just some animal head stuck on a furry (scaled, feathered, whatever) humanoid body.In terms of vaguely reptilian humanoids, I'd say the hierarchy of lameness goes serpent people (actually kind of cool), lizardmen (minimal cringe), croc-men (slightly cringe), pelycosaur / pterosaur / plesiosaur people (original, but trying too hard), dino-folk (fairly cringe-worthy), dragon-kin (painful cringe).
>>87630670Dragon kin are cringe because reducing dragons to a player race does them a disservice, the rest is just your hateboner for anything anthro because you let furries poison the well for you
>>87630666I expected better from you, Satan.
>>87573346I like the expression on Rex's face>URK
>>87600331Scary as fuck>>87586788Some of those elephants have fewer chromosomes than they should. The Amebelodon looks like he's drooling all over the place and shouting nonsense
>>87630670>>87630539Pretty okay with it, Warhammer Lizardmen are the only dinofolk I like, mostly because they ride dinos and they are pretty alien.
>>87603426That some Cage of Eden you got there anon?
>>87625122Uintatherium used to be depicted WAY more inaccurately than that.
>>87625122Would you prefer something like this instead?The idea behind this piece apparently was; these things grew out of tree shrews extremely rapidly so what if they still somewhat looked like awkward overgrown tree shrews?
>>87572957Ah yes, the Mammalian Megafauna Early Alpha Test.
>>87627526What do dino-folk offer which reptile-men don't?Both are 'ancient' races.Both are usually portrayed as scaly.Both are either unga-bunga in the jungle or desert.Both are generally hostile to mammals.Both are lamer than serpent people.
>no one's brought up the gorilla-sized lemur that used to live on Madagascar until the past couple thousand yearsMadagascar in general used to have some neat fauna until very recently.
>>87639072I like Dodos.
>>87639140Really enjoying the cage of eden, pantyshots, cool monsters and a mc than isn't that hateable.
>>87630539>▶What about these niggas?
>>87641510>t. the Dutch
>>87630666Maybe not for a coward like yourself.
>>87641510so did the sailors of yore
>>87624916>Tyrannosaurs in general are pretty boringT-Rex itself is far from boring. It's build for crushing (instead of bleeding like carnosaurs did). It's more social than carnosaurs as we have evidence they often fucked each other up and lived to tell the tale, hence why their bodies were build to withstain significant injury akin to losing half your tail which would be disasterous for most animals. And IIRC it also occupied several dominant niches during its lifecycle with younger and smaller tyrannosaurs going after radically different prey while being very successful.
>>87625750>Biologically-mandated Naruto running
>>87649182This is made worse after you know they're fighting Dinosaurs right now in Boruto...
>>87649149> It's more social than carnosaurs as we have evidence they often fucked each other up and lived to tell the taleNigga we have a fucking family group of Mapusaurus in a bonebed, and most carchs from south america have fucking paratypes found alongside the holotype like giga and Tyrannotitan
>>87649307>a fucking family groupOr a pred trap, bone bed != social animalsI am in no way downplaying magnificence of carcharodontosaurids
>>87649241You have lived to see man made horrors beyond your comprehension.
Big birb are justice.
When terraforming planets, why not base the new animals in the biome off of real life prehistoric animals?
There's something really cool about old paleo art. Back then, maybe because they were more religious, maybe because dinosaurs seemed more alien, they drew dinosaurs as true monsters. Artists seemed to conceive dinosaurs as some kind of primordial abomination, a seething mass of teeth and sinew utterly agnostic towards the concepts of kindness or decency. I wouldn't include these in a game as wildlife, I'd include them as demons. Something chaotic and primal, representing that purest, emptiest evil which is savagery without intent.
>>87648487What am I looking at here?A tyrannosaur running off with a clutch of hadrosaur babies? For what purpose?I guess the antlers are there as wild speculation about the assumed keratinous structure over the rugose bone behind the eyes. Doesn't seem super likely (how often do you see predators with elaborate display features) but OK. Likewise, weird lips seem just about plausible; it looks plausible that tyrannosaurs had some kind of structure around the mouth, and there's no reason to think it resembled any living animal's lips except for convergent evolution. The convention of giving them lizard-lips seems to be mostly just to make them look familiar. Bristles are also plausible, although the whisker-like ones on the face seem a bit unlikely, because as far as I know there is no evidence of the nerves that would be expected for whiskers.
>>87653549These look like medieval bestiary art. I guess they were influenced by it.
>>87653483I dig it. You get the same kind of vibe reading 1920-30s weird fiction. For HPL, CAS, REH, etc. there was something dark and disturbing about deep time and the things which lived there. Prehistoric animals weren't just animals which happened to live a long time ago. They were reminders of the vast, inhuman scale of the universe, and the relative insignificance of human civilization. Like the qliphoth, they were God's mistakes. A crude first attempt, discarded, but possibly still lingering in the dark places of the earth, full of hate and spite.
>>87654047>A crude first attempt, discarded, but possibly still lingering in the dark places of the earth, full of hate and spite.Like an ex-wife.
>>87653483it’s ideological and it’s kind of dumb. animals aren’t monsters, they’re our relatives
>>87652679I'd guess because the biomes that can support those animals are probably not optimal for humans. For example apparently the triassic/jurassic would have had 4000 ppm CO2, as opposed to our 400ish, which is already starting to get into "we didn't evolve for this shit" levels. Also I think we wouldn't know enough about prehistoric environments to build up sustainable ecosystems, though that shouldn't be too big an issue. Just quarantine some planets and mess around with extinct animal and plant species until you figure it out
>>87655430If animals aren't monsters then why are they related to us, a merry bunch of monsters?