Your medieval-era party does show proper deference to the noble classes and their divine right to rule, doesn't it?
>>85836814Only royalty has the divine right to rule. Not nobility.
Well the nobility of my setting are giants so...they'd step on you if you didn't.
>>85836852>Implying the entire feudal system was not set up by God
>>85836880Go the fuck outside and touch grass.
>>85836814PCs are nobles so I would assume so, though PCs exhibiting self-destructive behavior is kinda the norm.
>>85836880Technically speaking the Bible says that ALL earthly authority is established by God so...that would mean that even state atheist communist regimes are established by God.
>>85837130Yes, to punish the sins of the rulers and the people.
>>85836814No, because fuck the gods and fuck law.
>>85836814I don't have a medieval era party, because none of my settings are historical Earth.
>>85836814>Medieval EraWhat's that? Most learned men call our current time Era of the Second Dawn, after the archmagus Leopold IV successfully banished the Black Fog and returned the sun to us.Now silence your ramblings madman, I'm trying to enjoy my potato soup and coffee.
>>85837130>Halfling regiment of Imperial guard that specialize in hazardous conditions warfare, armed with compact lasweapons.Actually kinda cool.
>>85837130>the foldable stock can't unfold while the gun has battery pack loaded
>>85836814No I become fantasy Robespierre and wipe out royal bloodlines for a living.
>>85837353chop chop chop chop chop
>>85836880I am their divine punishment
>>85836814Divine right to rule didn't exist during the medieval era. It came about through the counter-reformation.
>>85836814That depends: is it actually, verifiably a divine rite of rulership? Did the gods I show deference to truly deign this mortal worthy to sit on the throne, or did they deign his great-great-great-grandpappy because he did a cool quest for the people or whatever? Honestly, don't answer, I can just cast a spell to ask them myself.The answer was no. Time to murder.>>85837337Not like those flashlights have recoil.
>>85837337This is 40k. Where we're going a brain won't be necessary.
>>85836814No. I didn't vote for em
>>85837639Unbelievably based. My mere presence is proof God wants them to die.
>>85836814Wasn't the original idea behind Divine Right that the king acted as God's lieutenant on earth and was responsible for both the physical and spiritual wellbeing of his populace, therefore giving him the right to rule but also the obligation to do so in a virtuous manner and instill virtue in his people? Didn't Aquinas in De Regnum elaborate that because of this, regicide is sometimes justified and even obliged?The above would require case-by-case examination of whether or not the king exercises his rights in accordance with his duties.
>>85836880When Adam delved and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?
>>85836814Envisage the aroma haha
>>85837770>Executing spies is a sin
>>85836814I've never played in a medieval era game and neither have you.
>>85837668BasedWhy aren't more isekai built around someone going to a place they consider a hellhole and burning it all down, I'd watch the shit out of that
>>85839962Because lowest common denominator formulaic isekai is easy and gets a large, reliable audience. Most isekai is wish fulfillment because the intended (and large) audience just wants wish fulfillment.
>>85839977And you're claiming my scenario ISN'T wish fulfillment?Are you SURE about that?
>>85836814I do not show "proper deference" to *anyone*.
>>85836814We are nobility, but we show our superiors due respect obviously.I can't think of anything more vulgar than impropriety.
>>85837677You don't vote for kings
>>85837378>>85836924>>85837130>Rebel against and kill your King>Whoops it turns out uprooting our entire society was a bad idea>Oops now we're all killing each other>Oops insane dictator now in charge, millions of people are dying>Well at least there's the comfort of faith to->Oops nevermind we're all atheists now and even if we weren't we're all damned>At least we built some nice gay awful ugly modern art for future civilizations to cringe atYeah this actually makes perfect sense. The French deserved to get cucked by Napoleon just like the Russians deserved every single thing that happened in the Red Terror.
>>85840072So when does the free healthcare happen?
>>85840072If you think Louis the inbred faggot letting the people starve counted as a government you're adorably retarded and I wish interesting times upon you, as per the old American saying.
>>85839962I usually think isekais are a shit premise to begin with that very few animes actually manage to do something interesting with, but one like that? Yeah, I'd give it a try.
As an average value, yes.In practice, we've got some who are very deferential and then my noble bastard, who has made a career of figuring out where the line between problematic and useful is and riding the fuck out of it.The queen, at this point, seems resigned to the fact that she's got herself a drinking buddy who'll kill bad people for her if she points him in the right direction. She did end up knighting him so he's obviously doing something right.
>>85840130>Louis the inbred faggot letting the people starve counted as a governmentsounds like modern America
>>85840692more people die of literally having too much food than from starving in modern america>>85840072>Oops insane dictator now in charge, millions of people are dyingthe dictator who took over after the french revolution was one of the greatest commanders in human history
>>85836814Obviously noI've tried for years to have some context appropriate behaviour in fantasy games, but every barbarian is the hulk, every wizard is Rick and every rogue is Shadow the hedgeheg so I just fucking gave up and tpk them the moment their morderhobo shenanigans stop being funny
>>85840732And he proved this by getting gorillions of his own people killed--which was his right, as they were stupid faggots who rebelled against God.
>>85836814>Divine RightMore like Divine Mandate. If a noble or royal manages to piss off the local priests they can loose that. Anyhow, it's no reason to show deference to the noble class. Rather, deference is shown out of respect or fear.
>>85840692Modern America literally stuffs people so full of corn syrup that they become fat, placid bovines. The opposite (and more clever) tactic for the same end goal.
>>85839928Killing envoys and merchants of the Great Khan is among the greatest of sins.
>>85840722>i am unstoppable because i have gunz and bitchez
>>85837296Ratling Sapper Regiment.
>>85840802God smiles far more on the house of Bonaparte than B*urbon
>>85841198Maybe. I care very little about the monarchs, I care about the people, and their righteous punishment for killing their king.
>>85841268Bold words for a man within cannon range.
>>85837668Personally I'd love to see isekai'd John Brown. Even though he was more moral than most people of his time, he was also seen as a batshit crazy redneck.
>>85841414>Davy Crockett intesifies
>>85836814I assure you that the numerous people of high birth hanging from trees in our wake is purely coincidence.
>>85841414>John Brown>Traitor, liar, murderer of women and children >More moral
>>85836814Yes but only if they have cute feet or sexy boots.
>>85841482Exactly why it would be interesting to see an anime about him. Emancipating all the slaves, no matter what the cost.
>>85841482Nobody said he had to be the protag, anon.
>>85841548He would make a decent villain for a slave isekai series.
>>85836880I must have missed that part in Sunday school when they explained that the Serbian cabbage farmer Diocletian, famous for killing so many Christians that it makes Nero's persecutions look like a toddler's tantrum, was in fact God.
>>85836814Of course not. The nobility learned a long time ago that it's best not to push the issue with adventurers. They are the walking definition of loose cannons, too useful to be done away with yet dangerously unstable. It does take a certain temperament to embrace the murderhobo lifestyle after all. Often the best course of action is to enforce basic law (most adventuring parties seem to accept that is a reasonable expectation) and aim the annoying or troublesome types at a problem the party wants to solve and hope that it kills them.
>>85841825All power is from God according to St. Paul, meaning all government is established by God. No man can have any power he does not receive from above.
>>85836814But OP, I don't do medieval stuff. What do?
>>85842309But that means that anybody that seizes power did so by the Will of God so the point is now moot.
>>85841482He would've been a Lincolnite had he enslaved the slave owners and sold them to Haitian plantation owners instead, yes.
>>85836814No, because the human nobility isn't shit when actual demigods are the ones in power.
>>85841414Dude he was a serial killer with the blood of toddlers on his hands. Calm your edginess
>>85836814No, because my character is a barbarian that hates the system
What medieval era party? Every game I can find is D&D 5e which has nothing at all to do with the middle ages. And when I take the initiative and run other systems it's usually science fantasy stuff like AD&D 1e.
>>85842709Sure but they’ll still go to hell for rebellion in the first place and the fact that they succeeded is a divine judgement on a sinful population.
>>85843450Everyone already deserves infinite torture in hell jsut for being born so that point is moot. Just do whatever you want and ask forgiveness it's that easy.
>>85836814It's weird how little fantasy settings in general use the Divine Right of Kings in their works given many have gods which are as present in the nature of the world as cats and oxygen are in ours. In my fantasy world, some regions are straight theocracies like Nithon though others, like Crin, use the Divine Right of Kings in a more subtle way by claiming to be the purest human lineage of the kingdom and as such the most fit to rule.
>>85836814>Group 1 We're a bunch of near epic level lolis working for an evil loli baroness trying to collect all the catgirl Lucifers so she can summon ultramega god devouring catgirl Lucifer or something and take her power as that will surely not backfire, "respect" is only for those who's kingdom we can't tear through like a wreaking ball....On the other hand we have met the only surviving goddess of the setting and the lolibarian was adopted as her little sister, if she's actually backing someone said barbarian might insist we hear them out>Group 2The last (and only) king we met kept a harem of slaves for his deva waifu to possess. He welcomed us as guests and we lead a slave revoltI don't think that's very respectful, though in our defense he was the elf king of the trolls.That said, if we did meet an actual good and noble ruler, I think at least half the party would show them some respect>Group 3 game 1Is a space setting so N/a, though we did meet a noble once, half the crew was trying not to look gobsmacked at all the fucking rich people opulence on his ship while the captain tried (and succeeded) in seducing him >Group 3 game 2Don't think divine right is a thing in this setting, but yeah, we at least try to show them some respect so they won't cut our head offExcept the one goblin 'king' we met, we killed his body guards, looted his treasure, and ran off with his minions and now we have a boat crewed by goblins who we usually try to keep away from our primary noble contact just in case>Group 3 game 3Hasn't come up yet, but given divine right is a clear and present thing in the Zelda setting, we would, though my priest might start an argument over WHERE said divine right comes from if they're Golden Goddess or Hylia worshipers>>85836867I would like to hear more about your setting
>>85836814> orc is from a tribal system, doesn't understand why the larger peasant class does not simply eat the smaller ruling class if they prove to be unworthy> dwarf is from a clan system where tanistry is practiced, although those analogous to kings and nobles there are viewed as blessed by the gods such blessings are fragile things and come with conditions - if the social contract is not generously upheld by those in power they are replaced by their second with little fuss> goblin is from an autonomous collective where goblins just decide what to do all at once> human cleric disagrees with the nobility on which is the relevant god, sees all those in this country as basically usurpers and heathensneed I go on?
>>85843474Ah, the Catholic approach.
>>85841268If God wanted the king to live He wouldn't have given him such a weak neck
>>85836814No, because they're basically landsknechts. Pay, party, pussy.
>>85836814I'll show proper deference by putting them all to the torch for being false idols. Divine right to rule is to speak on behalf of god, and is thus heresy.
>>85841291Sharp words for a bullethead. Cromwell's best decision was to die before they could hang him in chains.
>>85845861Denouncing divine right to rule is speaking in the name of God, and thus heresy.
>>85836814Only if the lord has boobs
>>85847878What about a giant codpiece?
>>85836867Sounds like a challenge, desu.
>>85847891As long as that also accompanies boobs
>>85842309>meaning all government is established by God.An unsupported leap in logic.
>>85847992You think anyone can take power against the will of the Almighty?
>>85836814Yes because I'm a masochist who likes pretty people ordering me around and occasionally praising me and the DM fucking knows it. Even when I try to play a bad boy she throws some cute highborn at me and you could get whiplash at how fast my facade cracks. It's utterly unfair and bullying.
>>85836814I did this with some players in my game once. I got a mixed reaction from the table. One player had his character walk right up to a queen and start talking to her, so I had her minister shout down the character for being too familiar. I had them act out being a little more courtly when talking to the nobles.Three of the players went okay that how this is going to go. The other two player didn't like it as much. I got the vibe that they felt I was stepping on their fun by not letting them go "wassup king dude?"One of those two players was a rogue and he complained about how he was a thief from the slums and wouldn't know anything about court, so now all he can do is quietly stand in the shadow. But I also know that's what he would have done anyway, because he always does that when he plays a rogue.
>>85849005I would imagine falling victim to a highborn can get pretty intense
>>85849614you're not wrong
>>85849836I recognize that goat.
>>85836814I show them all the respect that they deserve.
Well, since royalty and social standing is an actual game mechanic in The Dark Eye, of course they do.
>>85836814My character’s goal is to put his bloodline inside every noble house in the entire emerging nation, thus giving himself the status of revered ancestor.
>>85836814We recolonize peerage and tell the king he'll get his beets when he fixes this goddamn door
>>85850827BTW, where do you get the English books about Die Schwarze Auge?
>>85841482Where the hell are you seeing he killed women and children?
>>85839977What if m wish is to burn down settings I don't like though?
>>85836814I'm a fucking orc, I'm getting drunk with the the ranger's bear in the woods outside of town while the elves and humans and shit go negotiate new jobs.
>>85836814Yes. Frankly the lack of respect for authority is one of the first signs of a decadent and doomed populace, along with heavy drug use, atheism/disrespect for traditions, and of course reliance on slave classes to do the actual vital work.
My paladin is a Calvinist He believes in divine right as long as the ruling class who has it respects it Mad parties with orgies and wine for everyone? No divine right for you You may be born with it, but God will strip it away if you act in a sinful wayIn short a chaste and fair ruling class will have my servitude and respect, a decadent shitshow will be regarded worse than tavern drunkards
>>85843588>That said, if we did meet an actual good and noble ruler, I think at least half the party would show them some respectThe Shaman would be motherly and friendly but not necessarily deferential in a subservient manner I'd say. The Warpriest I'm guessing would show respect. The catgirl witch...depends on how much she has in common with the ruler I think. The dragonboy...unless it's a fellow dragon probably not.
>>85859138But a Calvinist would hold that God stripping the right to rule from anyone would precede their sinful acts as he predestined whatever happens.
>>85849005>>85849614>>85849836>reading through banal replies>suddenly this exchanges-someone needs to take responsibility
>>85853719I think I have seen some looking through the archives in the sharethread. Also mygully has a thread for DSA pdfs, that one definately has a few of the important English ones. But the thread itself is in German.
>>85840072>have no divine right to rule>become emperor anyway>slaughter millions on your path>change mindset of entire european population>get exiled>return anyway>monarch of europe send army to arrest>people who were supposed to arrest you join you, just to try second time
>>85867863>Lose again and die in exile
No, their authority can be revoked by the Church through excommunication. This is the middle ages, not the Renaissance.
>>85849005>I try to play a bad boy she throws some cute highborn at me>She throws >She
>>85836814>>85836880>>85836924>>85837043>>85837130>>85837185All christians are backwards weirdos and incels that don't know how to operate in normal societyFuck christ shit bullshit it's all so completely backwards
>>85873699I'm trans btw if that matters
>>85836814There's one guy in my group that always has to inject modern sensibilities. If the church plays a part in the plot "umm church le bad we can't help them" if a king imposes the will on the peasants "umm monarchy le bad". Like he just can't pretend that he's a part of this world and that seeing something like this would be part of every day life. He always tries to go on some reddit atheist saviour speech to help the peasants enlighten themselves or will lecture the baddies about something. Honestly, he's a cool guy most of the time but he's not particularly good at playing pretend.
>>85837668I think this sums up most D&D parties, Chaotic Evil with an entitled demand that the gods personally explain to them anything that irks them at the smallest level.
>>85874820There were plenty of people who hated the church and hated monarchs, even in the middle ages. Peasant rebellions against the landed nobility and heresies motivated by the blatant corruption of the church were both semi-regular occurrences. It just wasn't until the protestant reformation that you got a heresy that was strong enough to survive the church's attempts to stamp it out by killing everyone who questioned their authority.Hating the church and hating the monarch aren't just "modern sensibilities." Those ideas existed even in times dominated by the church and monarchy, it's just that the people with power tried very hard to suppress those ideas.
>>85836814Not really, because not only did Royalty, and Royalty alone, do the whole "divine right" thing, which is why Kings could, and have, stripped Lords, Counts, and the like, of their titles, lands, and privileges, but also because in almost none of the Campaigns I've ran had the party interact with Royalty at all, and mostly work for the lower nobility, since Monarchs have better stuff to worry about than that small band of Orcs that has been robbing farms in one of their provinces, since they have Lords for that for a reason.The only campaign where that played somewhat of a role was one in a homebrew Viking-esque setting, a few years back, where the Kingdom was an elective monarchy, and one of the Jarls hired the party to serve him as mercenaries to protect his ships while he visited his allies, but there wasn't any of that "divine right" stuff either until the very end, since the elected High King was then confirmed by the High Priest of the nation's chief deity, and, since Gods are explicitly real in that setting, the whole divine right stuff was actually true and not just self-aggrandizement. There, a rival Jarl didn't acknowledge the election, and, rather than follow tradition, like issuing a proper challenge or take it up with the Priest, actually tried to outright attack and kill the player's employer at the gathering, which caused the Jarls' God to smite the guy. And, well, that was about it as far as "divine right" went.Though, even there, the players showed the guy respect mainly because he was their employer and later liege lord (since he made the party's leader a Thane and gave him land as part of their payment) and because he was an overall nice and honorable guy that paid them on time, not because he was a noble or royal.>>85873699Eh, may God love you anyway.
>>85873699>All christians are backwards weirdos and incels that don't know how to operate in normal societyOh, trust me, Atheists are way, waaay worse. The vast majority of Christians don't have the need to tell everyone how much "smarter", how much more "enlightened", and how much more "intellectual" they are, while smugly claiming that everyone that isn't Atheist is some unwashed savage that laughs at shadows on the cave wall (no joke, someone actually tried to use that descriptor), only to screech, flail their arms, and rant when someone disagrees with their supposedly "superior" opinion, nor do they make it their sole defining personality trait and bring it up at every opportunity.That's the Atheists doing that. And I've seen enough of both crowds over the decades to know which is more cancerous, and you can believe me when I say it's not the Christians that get on my nerves, and your post serves as an excellent example of that phenomenon.
>>85876493>The vast majority of Christians don't have the need to tell everyone how much "smarter", how much more "enlightened", and how much more "intellectual" they are, while smugly claiming that everyone that isn't Atheist is some unwashed savage that laughs at shadows on the cave wall (no joke, someone actually tried to use that descriptor), only to screech, flail their arms, and rant when someone disagrees with their supposedly "superior" opinion, nor do they make it their sole defining personality trait and bring it up at every opportunity.Are you joking?That EXACTLY describes most Christians. Like, to a tee.
>>85876493Nice, a semi-proper troll that isn't just 5 random buzzwords connected together. 4chan is healing.
>>85843233>My source is that I made it the fuck up
>>85859138What if you have the following situation: Rulers that are competent, fair and respected by the people. But also hedonistic pleasure seekers. But it does not get in the way. Would this lead to grudging acceptance and dancing on a thin rope? Would your character tolerate it? What would he do?Personally, as long as everything is mostly consentual and the ruling classes do a good job, they can have some eccentricies here and there. As long as it does not go overboard.
>>85867875Angloids and russoids once again proving they are the blight upon our world