If I buy a book, the DM has to let me use stuff from it, right? Otherwise, he's invalidating my purchase and there's no point to me buying books.
Don't buy the supplemental d&d books, they're easily found in the pdf share thread and wizards doesn't need your money. If anything, get the relevant core book (I assume the PHB, because you're a player) and just use pdfs for your extra options.Really, the only people who have a legitimate reason to buy physical copies of the books are DMs, because managing 7 goddamn pdfs to plan an encounter is bullshit.
>>85505196He doesn't. He's free to invalidate your purchase as a player all he wants, those books are meant for the GM anyway. If you're the GM, that's when you get to choose what books are and aren't being used.
>>85505329Bold of you to assume op plays games.
>>85505329I like having the books, they are fun to collect.>>85505337Invalidating my purchase invalidates my labor I used to purchase the book as well. it's like telling me my time has no value.
>>85505361>it's like telling me my time has no value.It doesn’t.Also, when it comes to gaming, you bring nothing to the table.
>>85505361I guess your right. In the end, you wasted your time and got nothing out of it. Try and think things through a little more next time.
>>85505397That comment did nothing but out you as a rude person, good thing you're anonymous or that kind of stuff would come back to bite you.
>>85505361Your time has no value in the context of a game. Someone else is spending their own time to run you through a campaign. They therefore make the rules. Not you. If you want to take the time to run a campaign, you set the rules.
>>85505426Not true. That comment made you do a bit of soul-searching, thinking about how stupid your bait post actually was. It left you at a loss of words, a loss so massive that you could only respond with “rude!”
>>85505196Bait question but real response.No. Nobody has to let you do anything.That said, if your group was already agreeing to share resources - "you buy book X and I'll buy book Y"sort of deal - your GM is possibly being a dick if they decide to exclude a book after agreeing to this.You just showing up with a book and saying "I paid for it you have to use it" makes as much sense as me showing up with a whole other system and getting mad the GM isn't ready to run it then and there and wants to go with the prepared material.
WotC would be really smart to put it in the rules that the DM has to let players use stuff from rulebooks they spend money on.
>>85505484Me wanting to play a Tabaxi doesn't require the DM to have to reprep the whole game, that's not an argument.
>>85505494DM here, it absolutely does.
>>85505503It quite literally does not.
>>85505507Hey, that's good to hear. You try coming up with an adventure for a party consisting of a cat person, a talking bipedal turtle, a flightless bird that can only mimick speech and a demon person.
>>85505529You can just run whatever adventure you were planning on. Just because you pictured human fighters when you homebrewed an adventure doesn't mean we can't have interesting characters, it's fantasy ffs.
>>85505494The point isn't about the amount of work done. The point is you agreed to play a game under certain rules and then you want to show up and do a different thing.Swap "whole other system" for "my homebrew race" or "some class I downloaded off of a wiki" or whatever.Maybe it's an unnecessary restriction but if you feel that way, you should've brought it up before you spent money about it.Takes very little time to ask "hey if I buy X book can I use the stuff from it?"
>>85505545I'm asking about an official Wizards of the Coast sourcebook, you aren't being genuine in your argument by bringing up homebrew or an internet classYou anti Tabaxi dicks must be fun at parties.
>>85505598I never said anything "anti-tabaxi".I said you shouldn't agree to play under certain restrictions then get mad when the GM wants you to play under those restrictions.Restricting race in 5e is honestly pretty fucking shit but, also, why did you agree to play in such a game if it makes you so upset you seek out validation on 4chan of all places?Consider how your actions could have led you to a happier place here.
>>85505196>there's no point to me buying books.It's funny when people accidentally arrive at the right conclusion
>>85505598There's a rule in the WotC DMG called Rule 0 that says the DM gets to decide.He coule even remove a core class like a Fighter from his game if he wanted. And you likewise have the freedom to leave his game if you wanted.
>>85505598>I'm asking about an official Wizards of the Coast sourcebookIf I were to show up with a disparate sourcebook, first party or not, and tell the GM "I'm picking something unique to this, *you* make it make sense," the GM would not be the asshole in that scenario for shutting me down.Imagine some dipshit showing up to a 3.X game with the Incarnum book or one of the other setting-warping splats and being as much of a donkey about it. Christ.
>>85505722Showing up to a game set in Forgotten Realms and asking to play a Tabaxi (a main race fromt he setting) is no where near approaching what you are saying. Bad faith argument.
>>85505739>Showing up to a game set in Forgotten Realms...>Bad faith argument.Funny you should say so: Pretending details were established when you have literally just introduced them is a pretty core example of a bad faith argument.
>>85505739Yes it is what he is saying, if the GM straight up tells you that those aren't going to be a part of the setting. The GM decides the content of the game, end of discussion. If he didn't tell you before you bought then book, then yeah that's unfortunate, but tough shit. You don't like it, find another game. Your sense of entitlement is unbelievable.inb4 more "b-b-bad faith!"
>>85505780Showing up to something he agreed to do a certain way and acting like it's fine to do something else is also acting in bad faith.
>>85505795Man, lotta instances of bad faith seemingly just cropped up all at once.Must be one of those Baader-Meinhoff things.
>>85505795You literally just learned the phrase bad faith today, didn't you
>>85505786Maybe he should play some esoteric elitist system instead if he's gonna pick and choose what's allowed in an established setting.
>>85505196Why would you buy shit that's literally free? Do you also purchase DVDs and bottled water?
>>85505806You're not even trying to address what anyone is saying. I accept your concession.
>>85505810Sorry for supporting creators that make stuff I like I guess
>>85505541You can be a freakshit if you want but your experience will be freakier than if you were normal.
>>85505813Yeah that's right, fuck those people. Now you're getting it.
>>85505805> You literally just learned the phrase bad faith today, didn't youPic related
>>85505826Fuck I love Greyhawk.Link?
>>85505196He has no obligation to use a book you buy, even if you buy it for him. It's his game, his rules. If you don't like it you can find another game or run one of your own
>>85505196>If I buy a book, the DM has to let me use stuff from it, right?No, they don't.>Otherwise, he's invalidating my purchase and there's no point to me buying books.Sucks to suck. The DM is 100% exclusively in charge of what's allowed at the table. If you don't like it, find a different table.
>>85505813Normally I'd be in your corner on this, but D&D's making nearly a billion dollars a year as it is. If you don't *need* their stuff physically, fuck it, just pirate it and put the money towards indies and smaller companies.
>>85505865I like collecting the books, I have almost every 5e book released so far
>>85505868I'm sure you'll make an amazing DM someday Anon.
>>85505884I just play, I don't want to try DMing
>>85505885Then you objectively make bad decisions with your money.
>>85505901That's your opinion, and now I can tell you are arguing in bad faith
How does /tg/ have the worst trolls? I mean most aren’t even close to amusing or funny.
>>85505913No, I am arguing with the assumption that you will pay me $100 to fuck off Mr. Buyfag.
>>85505361>Invalidating my purchase invalidates my labor I used to purchase the book as well. it's like telling me my time has no value.The GM's time is absolutely worth more than yours.
Fuck. I know real people like OP. It just makes me feel bad.
>>85505196Professional DM has to. Volunteer DMs can do whatever they want.
>>85505361>it's like telling me my time has no value.But your time has no value. Why would anyone value your time?
>>85505917>If you think your labor has value and are entitled to that value you are a trollwew lad, talk about arguing in bad faith,
>>85505917I don't think OP is a troll, he might be that stupid in real life.
>>85505361>it's like telling me my time has no value.As a player, your time has no value. The only person who's time has value is the DM.
>>85505934nothing has any value. The Universe is a cold, uncaring place where ultimately nothing you say or do matters.
>>85505913He's not. You objectively make poor decisions with your money and expect others to validate your poor decisions. If you were buying the books FOR your DM, that would be a slightly different case (Though he'd still not be obligated to use them at all) but since you're buying something that can only be used in a certain circumstance and openly have no plans to ever fucking fulfill that circumstance, it's a poor financial decision. This is no different than buying an expensive set of tools that you never plan to use, DLC for a game you don't own, or a set of paints for a model boat you don't own.
>>85505941I am no longer engaging with you troll
>>85505932What's a professional DM? Are there professional players out there that get paid to pretend they're oh wait actors exist that's right. Still, the fuck is a professional DM?
>>85505945>Still, the fuck is a professional DM?A person who gets paid to run games as a DM.
>>85505944Now who's arguing in bad faith? Though it's pretty fucking clear that you were either casting shit bait from the get go, or just wanted someone to back up your overly entitled opinion.
>>85505948This. Anything you do for money you’re a “professional” at.
The only book an individual will ever remotely need is just the player manual, and even then you could still argue just using the pdf is better because it only takes a couple seconds to pull out your phone. If you need to look up something from a different book it's probably something you should have already written down before coming to the session.
>>85505945If you think of professional players as actors you can think of professional DM as a director.
>>85505948How do I learn to fellate the ego of nerds as a living? They do stupid shit like buy literally all the DnD books for themselves, I bet it's really easy if you know how to convince them.
>>85505981Learn how to say "Yes"
>>85505969Buying the book entitles you to use stuff from it in a game, otherwise why spend the money?
>>85505981Just go post an open game on roll20, mark it as a paid game, and tell everyone you'll be charging $10 or $15 or $300 per session or whatever the fuck you want.
>>85505994As a GM, absolutely. As a player, nope.
>>85505994>Buying the book entitles you to use stuff from it in a gameNo, it does not. The book's existence and official publishing is enough reason to entitle that. Buying the book itself does nothing to anyone's opinion.
>>85505981Have bobs and vagene
>>85505994Yes, if you RUN the game, then you can make the rules. If you aren't the GM though then the best you can do is just ask if they'll allow it and don't act pissy if they say "No" Hell you don't even need to own the fucking book to use it as a DM, PDFs exist and can easily be found for free>>85505996You have failed
>>85505994Don't spend money on books if you feel that way. It's as simple as that. Alternatively run games yourself to make use of the books you've bought. It's not other people's job to justify your purchases.
>>85505994>Buying the book entitles you to use stuff from it in a gameWrong. Buying a book entitles you to lobby your DM to allow the things in the book, but if the DM says no, then you wasted your money.
why do you faggots give replies to these stupid, no-effort shitpost threads
>>85506025Because nobody ever posts non-stupid, high effort shitpost threads.
>>85506009But pulling out muh phone from muh pocket takes too long rrrrreeeeeee!
>>85506025Minor dopamine rush from telling someone they're a retard.
>>85505196Fuck off Brother Fen.
>>85505196You should buy a gun and kill yourself instead.
>>85506031It's the natural order of humanity for superior specimens to remind inferiors of their place amongst the social and economic ladders. My brain wouldn't tell me it's good unless it was good for me.
Ok, no just no.If your GM is running an adventure, and he decided to change anything or decides that certain class or race or rule or feat doesn't sit well with him, he has every right to opt it out. If You decided BY YOURSELF to buy a book without consulting wheather you would be able to use it in his campaign, then YOU took HIS agency away in the EXACT SAME MANNER you are complaining about.And worst yet, you already have admitted both that you like to collect them even though you never want to try being a GM, so when you say that in not letting you use your purchase in HIS campaign somehow equates to invalidating your purchase then you are being manipulative (you've already admitted you buy it because you like it and not exclusively for the game), and worst yet, a hypocrite.Why? Because you flippantly say how not much of a trouble would be to deal with this or that but are unwilling to step up the way he is and bear the burden of being a GM.And before you start crying something along the lines of "overtly dramatic" might I remind you that being a GM requires actual preparation wich you have already stated you refuse to do.The level of entitlement is astonishingSo, no. HIS table, HIS lore, HIS rules
>>85505994This ain't Magic the Gathering nigger, nobody is going to be literally FORCED to play with your Pickle Rick Grimes OC, or whatever specific mechanic it is you want the DM to accept, just because Wizards says it's official.
>>85506058He's a dungeon master, not a slave master. The DM doesn't own me
>>85506074>This ain't Magic the Gathering nigger, nobody is going to be literally FORCED to play with youEven if it was MtG the dudes might be playing a different format or something.
>>85505956Well, considering that a professional is someone versed in a particular profession, and a profession is defined as a paid ocupation, then yeah that sounds about right
>>85506075>He's a dungeon master, not a slave masterLiterally the same thing, go look up what a dungeon even is first retard.
>>85506058You obviously don't play D&D.
>>85506085It's a place to slay monsters and find epic loot you retard
>>85506075It's his table, and you flatter yourself by thinking you're even worth owning.
>mfw I buy the DMG and now the DM is forced to give all of the magic items in it to my character
>>85506075Yeah he does. If you wanna play at his game, you follow his rules. You're quite literally his bitch.
>>85506058>HIS table, HIS lore, HIS rulesThe level of entitlement is astonishing.A GM is there to serve the players. With no players, he has no game. GMs must be subservient to the whims of their players if they wish to continue GMing. Their fun or consent is not required.
>>85505981If you actually want to make it work you need to understand it's not about feeding their egos any more than an RPG already is, anyways. Sure, that's what a lot of the Roll20 shit is. "Here's $10, tell me about how big my wizard's dick is. No, the story I wrote says *my* character kills the dragon (who is their father)," yadda yadda yadda.What you actually need to do is find people with more money than they have the time or confidence to GM. The fact that you're almost certainly supplying all or some of the books as well as the knowledge can bring its own premium.Look at it this way. There are a lot of great, easy to make dishes that people would rather pay for than put in the labor to master and make themselves. Same thing. Shit, people pay a lot extra for delivery because they don't want to take 15 minutes to go pick their food up themselves. Why SHOULDN'T there be a market for paid GMing?Or make a pitch, and a business card, and approach businesses to run a weekly or monthly game as a team building exercise. Seriously, you would only need one or two bites to be making a fair bit of income on the side. There is a shocking amount of money in setting up play dates for middle aged white collar workers. It's, like, *five* different industries.
>>85506121>A GM is there to serve the players. With no players, he has no game.It is many times easier for a lone GM to find players than any number of players to find a GM.
>>85506121>With no players, he has no game.No matter how tyrannical, a GM will ALWAYS have players. There is no end to the number of people who want to play.
>>85506075Neither you own him, nor his game, so you have no say on what he ultimately decides to do on HIS game.And I do say HIS GAME brcause you are NOT THE ONE planning the sessions and deciding what constitutes "too much work". He is, ergo HIS gameDon't like it? Then you run a game and you decide what goes in and what not, until then your opinion is baseles, biased, and higly entitled.
>>85506121Playing the game as intended since its very inception is far from entitlement.
>>85506121Players are the most easily replaceable part of any RPG table.
>>85506121Good luck finding a gm when he kicks you out for the entitlement and drama
>>85506153Yeah, we saw the BTFO post, what of it?
>>85506153I dont think you understand entitlement nor self reflection given your way of thinking. That or you are just an edgy angsty teenager frustrated with order and prone to lawnshitting
>>85506121>>85506146Who is more replaceable will vary by region. And even online where communities are interconnected it will vary by timezone.
>>85506208What region is it where players are so thoroughly outnumbered by DMs?
>>85506208To a degree this is true, but there will always, ALWAYS be far more players than GMs, simply because even with the simplest systems, it's multiple times more work to RUN a game than it is to be a player in one, and a lot of people don't like that work. The only time I've ever heard of a GM having a hard time finding players is if they're trying to get 5e players to try something that's not actual garbage, or if they're some combination of a genuinely awful person, a known control freak, and a massive creep. And even people in the latter category can still usually find a group for 1-2 sessions online simply because GMs are in such demand.
>>85506075He does however own the right to determine what content is or is not in his setting and what is and is not allowed at his table. That's why the more common term is Game Master; he's the master of the game. If you don't like the game he's running, you can go fuck off off and make your own or play at another table. >>85506121>A GM is there to serve the players.Wrong. Flat out wrong. The GM does 99.99999999% of the actual work. His setting. his table. His lore. His rules.>With no players, he has no gamePlayers are a dime a dozen. Gms on the other hand are rare. He has millions of potential players out there. You have low, low odds of finding a GM however, moreso when you're a whiny turd who keeps wanting to play his speshul snowflake OC.>GMs must be subservient to the whims of their players if they wish to continue GMingFalse, triply so with randos.>Their fun or consent is not required.It is, because without the Game Master there is no game.
>>85506217Amstetten in Austria is pretty infamous for its dungeon masters situation.
>>85506217Probably a third-world shithole where tabletop games aren't very popular. Something like south america, africa, or russia.
>>85506244>russiaStill pretty popular over there. https://2ch DOT hk/bg/catalog.html
>>85506121>The level of entitlement is astonishingWhat part of this is entitlement? You try having a game with no GM.You try finding a GM without acquiescing to their requests most of the way. You try keeping a GM without him having fun or consenting to continuing running the game.You gonna make him?
>>85505196Only if you buy it from the GM.
>>85506266now switch that to players, players can leave easier than a GM can because they are less invested, they have all the power.
>>85505196I know that you are pretending, for the sake of comedy, but please anon, you need to make that clear or there might be people who think you are being serious.
>>85506356Then why don't they leave when things aren't going their way?It's because they know they won't find another GM willing to put up with their entitled horseshit.They want in? They abide by the GM's rulings, and acquiescing to his requests.Full-stop, no appeal.
>>85506266>You gonna make him?Yes.
>>85506376Sure, just as he is gonna make you stop pouting about what he has already vetoed
>>85506356Ok. And then what?Seriously, then what? A GM can just find a fresh crop of new players in a timeframe that ranges from a week if they're being picky to an hour if they have no standards for players. A player will group will, assuming they don't break up after leaving their GM, will have to spend a long ass time trying to find a new GM that wants to run the kinda game they want to play. There's also no rule that says a GM needs more than one player for a game they run.
>>85506374You sound fun at parties.
>>85506376How?You gonna hold this man at gunpoint so he runs the shit you want?
>>85506385People keep showing up for some reason, so I must be doing something right. A GM who's just a relentless shitty tyrant will drive off every player conceivable, but at the end of the day, players need any individual GM more than any individual GM needs any individual player. Players don't get to be entitled pieces of shit and expect to stay at the table. Eat shit.
>>85506383NTSA but to further drive this point across; a decent GM will be able to run a game even as a solo play. Specially when there are rulesets that allow it, and there are quite a few books out already for various systems, so yeah, the GM can game alone if need be, but the players will need someone to step up and become a gm, taking us back to square one in this installment of "how not to behave towards your GM"
>>85506403You come off as a tyrannical asshole just fyi
>>85506411Though i realize this concept might fry OP's brain
>>85506391Gun is a bit extreme, but having some sort of leverage on GM can really improve the game experience.
The DM makes the call. Don't like it, find another DM, but good luck finding one that will let that kind of dumb shit pass lmao
>>85506416Well take a look in the mirror with your "he must hear my every whim cause i bought a book that I wanted for my collection"
>>85506432>so mad you lose the ability to form a cohesive sentenceYour opinion is valueless.
>>85506438Yours too, welcome to the real world
>>85506445>n-n-no u!truly i am btfo
>>85506423What kind of leverage could you conceivably have on the GM to force him to do what you want? I can't help but notice you're not answering the question. >>85506416And yet, I have players and run games for them, and they haven't left or walked away from my table. I've been playing with the same group for fifteen fucking years. The same batch of five individuals.You're REALLY gonna fucking sit there and tell me that I'm being a tyrannical asshole because I don't take shit from whiners and assclowns who demand I give them special treatment and bow to their every whim because they want to unionize the players or some bullshit?
>>85506457>I've been playing with the same group for fifteen fucking years.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
>OP managed to bait this many replies with the cheapest bait possibleI thought /tg/ was supposed to be a slow board that just mindlessly post on every shitty thread. This is some /v/ tier shit
>>85506457The kind of leverage will vary for online and in-person game. In person you need to be observant and look for exploitable weakness. Online you can often just make one.
>>85506462What, are you his wife?>>85506483Again, how? What leverage? Also, actively looking for ways to force someone to do what you want is kind of sociopathic, and super fucked up. Not the best way to handle this. >>85506470Why didn't they exercise their alleged power over me beforehand if they were dissatisfied?Or just walk away? Maybe it's because the GM calling the shots on their campaign...somehow magically isn't the end of the fucking world. Or just plain matters less to most players than finding a GM to run the game at all.Or maybe they just LIKE the games I run.It's not like I'm holding them hostage. I haven't tied them up and held a gun to their heads to tell them to roll their fucking dice.
>>85506451What did you expect? Your opinion so far has only been"I bought mah buk for mah colection so imma use it or mah valued time" while chastizing your GM and acusing him of doing the exact same thing you are doing to him>>the DM has to let me use stuff from it, right? Otherwise, he's invalidating my purchase and there's no point to me buying booksSo they have no value>>I like having the books, they are fun to collect.But then they do>>Invalidating my purchase invalidates my labor I used to purchase the book as well. it's like telling me my time has no value.But again they dont>>I like collecting the books, I have almost every 5e book released so farBut then once again they do.If you bought them cause you like them and want to collect them and have most of them then good for you, there is your "value". But it bears little to no consequence to the GM and definitely He is in NO WAY responsible for your purchases, and he STILL has the option to NOT ALLOW whatever he doesn't want to deal with regardless if you care or like it. Specially if you didn't consult beforehand with him. If you can't understand that simple fact then I would not be surprised when you are kicked out of that group
>>85505196Find another group, it's the best solution for you and the DM. Because he is not obligated to insert whatever the fuck you want in his adventure and you're free to just go find a different group that will, or you know, if you're completely socially inept, just play video games. There is Solasta and the new Baldur's Gate, games based on DnD 5e where you won't need to interact with other humans.
>>85506517I think you don't understand what Stockholm syndrome is, which is understandable coming from such a smooth brained individual. You are arguing in bad faith.
>>85506242I'm about to move to Austria bro
>>85506523>you have to be OP because I can't conceive of two people holding an opinion I do not share!
>this is your mind on DnD
>>85505196Motherfucker I've WRITTEN books of homebrew and the DM turned down my ideas.You're valid to suck my LARGE COCK
>>85506529>I think you don't understand what Stockhold syndrome isI know what fucking Stockholm syndrome is, you walking piece of sapient trash.>You are arguing bad faith.How exactly?My position hasn't changed, has solid logical reasoning behind it, goalposts haven't moved a single time, and it all loops back around to 'muh GM is bad cus I can't do thing I bought da buk fer'With absolutely no consideration for the other human on the other side of this equation (the GM), no consideration for the rest of the players in the group (who may not even give a shit about your problem here), no consideration for the possibility what you want and are willing to dig your heels in for might be bad for the wider campaign, the game, or anyone else present, and no consideration for literally any of the effort the GM is putting into running the game as it is.And somehow, some way, you seem to think I'M the one arguing in bad faith when entitled players are objectively more common than entitled or even tyrannical GMs simply by sheer fucking volume of people on one side of the table compared to the other.Every single suggestion and counterargument you have made is more inane or more ludicrous than the last simply because you cannot fathom of a concept in which your wants and desires are not the center of the world.Any GM would be in their right to tell you to get the fuck away from their table.
>>85506563Gaslighting is the definition of arguing in bad faith.
>>85506536>passive agressive answers will validate my argument
>>85506568OK. Explain how I'm gaslighting you.Then I will explain how you are incorrect.Then you will shift your position again.Then I will call you on it, point out how you're being retarded, then you will shift your position AGAIN.
>>85506577You are arguing in bad faith, which means any attempts to engage you in good faith will be pointless. I will not explain what you clearly already know.
>>85506581So you're full of shit. Got it. Jump off a building and take yourself out of the gene-pool, please.Entitled players are fucking animals.
>>85506536NTA but its much easier to believe OP is samefagging than accept that there are two people who genuinely share his retarded opinion
>>85506593toxic, controlling, tyrannical, egotistic, hateful.I think you lied about having games, who would want to play with you?
>>85506605Making a lot of assumptions. Who's to say I'm particularly controlling, tyrannical or egotistical in person or at my game table?Some players really do realize they're not exactly spoiled for choice, can't get their way on certain occasions, and are willing to just take the L. It's not Stockholm syndrome if they don't want to piss and moan and fight it out over not getting their fucking way.Hateful and toxic, absolutely. I revile entitled players and want them to fuck off.
>>85506617>Some players really do realize they're not exactly spoiled for choice, can't get their way on certain occasions, and are willing to just take the L. It's not Stockholm syndrome if they don't want to piss and moan and fight it out over not getting their fucking way.>admitting itbro, don't do this
>>85505196No, no he doesn't, from page 4 of the 5e dungeon master's guide, with the specific mention of the Forgotten realms;"The world is yours to change as you see fit..."
>>85506563>>85506577>>85506593please stop ffsthis guy is a classic troll and you're just feeding him every time
>>85506628Same page>consistency is keyso which is it?
>>85505196And on the same page, just one parragraph earlier; "You're the DM, and you are in charge of the game..."
>>85506623Admitting what?I don't allow some things in my campaign. My players are onboard with it. If they disagree, they're welcome to try and talk me out of it. If my ruling stands, they accept it. There's nothing to admit when everyone understands where we stand.
>>85506639same page>the D&D rules help you and THE PLAYERS have a good time.once again, which is it?
>>85506636What's inconsistent about "Your GM can do whatever he wants"?
>>85506649>whats inconsistent about having arbitrary rules that don't need to be consistently enforced?
>>85506653You're dodging the question. The rules that anon posted clearly say the DM gets to change the world, the DM is the creator of the world, 'you're the DM and you're in charge."What exactly is inconsistent about [the DM is the ultimate authority]?
>>85506628>>85506639>>85506636It is "the GM's choice" since he runs the game, you might not like it that he chooses not to use your official bought supplement, but it is the GM who decides what he uses and what he drops. Not youAt best you can talk it out with him but he is in no way obliged to use anything he doesn't want,
>>85506653The rules are only arbitrary to you, because apparently to you, GM power equates to players automatically being shafted.
>>85506668Absolute power corrupts absolutely
>>85506663Oh no, it's retarded. Must suck to get BTFO by the rules of the game.
>>85506664And that comes published in the core and most oficial book, so if you don't like it take it to WotC or play another game, he is the referee, his ruling stands. You don't enjoy it? Talk to him or leave, but it is still his choice what he allows
>>85506677I didn't want to post the same image twice and waste my favorite website 4channel's bandwidth. I get that might have made things difficult for someone with your mental faculties, so next time I will try to be more compassionate towards people like you.
>>85506664>If I keep saying the same thing over and over again that means I win the argument.Bad Faith Argument 101
>>85506688>no uNice cope. Enjoy not playing games.
>>85506673I agree. Which is why players should have a limited amount, within the bounds of what the GM is willing to allow.
>>85506699>ad hominembad faith argument, you are no longer worth engaging with, not that you ever were.
>>85506693>no actual argumentsBad faith argument master's degree
>>85506708>no u!You're exhausting, I feel bad for your parents and state-funded nurse.
>>85506693Ok, im tired of polishing your smoothbrain, sorry if this was too hard on your ego. Eat a goat off a bridge in my honour, cheers mate. Hope they don't kick you out of the game too hard
ITTOP tries to spark the playertariat revolt and finds a crowd of Russian peasants telling him to fuck off.
This has been a masterclass in trolling, bravo OPJust like the good old days
>>85506724>playertariat Good one. One day players will come to own the means of running the game themselves... Which will make them GMs by definition.
>>85506745So why don't they already?It's as easy as pirating the core rulebook and GM guide.
>>85506653Oh but my friend you've dug your own grave. Because he IS being consistent. The GM has said "no, you cannot use these options as they are not part of the game world". He's most certainly being consistent, and also enforcing the consistency of his setting. YOU are the one trying to bring inconsistency into his setting.
>>85506752But we are playing in forgotten realms so they are 100% unequivocally part of the game world
>>85506648The DM is in charge of the game. His goal is, ultimately, to ensure that EVERYONE at the table is having a good time. If you are the only person whining about not being able to use your overpriced toilet paper at his table, then him kicking you and finding someone else IS him ensuring that EVERYONE at the table is having fun, because the majority find your pissbaby attitude against the fun of the game. By removing you, you are no longer at the table and therefore are not a player in his game nor his concern.
>>85505196>If I buy a book, the DM has to let me use stuff from it, right? Otherwise, he's invalidating my purchase and there's no point to me buying books.>DM is running 5E>Show up with my great Wizard character I made with 3.5 books>DM has to let me use it, because I bought the books>Friend is also using shitty unbalanced homebrew he bought on DM's Guild or some shit>You have to let him play with it, because he bought itRule 0, DM has final say. That includes which books are allowed.Even WOTC's AL only allows PHB+2 last I checked.
>>85506764Not true. In fact, the PHB accounts for this with Bladesinger and Battlerager, noting that "your GM's version of the realms" might differ. Clearly, his version of the realms lacks those options.
>>85506767>just get rid of everyone you don't likeYeah, an austrian guy had the same idea about 80 years ago.
>>85506779If only he would have gassed your ancestors.
>>85506779You can go find a different table or make your own. The GM has no duty to keep someone who's making everyone else - including himself - miserable around.
>>85506751Because a forever player who never bothers to even try DMing is a parasite. He produces nothing of value for his group, his community and hobby at large; and only drains resources - time, effort, attention; but on the other hand, he generates sales for the game companies as long as he keeps consooming. He's a leech that drains the resources of it's host only to eventually get eaten by the predator praying on the host itself.... got carried away somewhat. What was I on about? Ah, yeah. Fuck forever players, especially the ones who think anyone owes them a game.
>>85506770>using 3.5 books is totally the same as using 5e books
>>85506796You're moving the goalposts. Your initial argument is:>I bought this book, therefore I should be able to use its contents in any game I go toIf the other anon bought his 3.5 books, is he not entitled to use them in a 5e game? I mean, turning him away would invalidate his hard work he did to earn the money to buy those books!
>>85506796See>>85506779ejecting a problem player from a GAME TABLE does not equate to killing millions of people. And using it as an argument is falacious and intelectual dishonesty. Congratulations, you played yourself
>>85506816Holy fucking bad faith batman!You can't possibly believe you are making an earnest argument, can you?
>>85506796>If I buy a book, the DM has to let me use stuff from it, right?There's no fallacy, the OP made the argument I used, and it clearly illustrates just how dumb it is.If the sole thing that determines validity/legality in a game is that it was bought then no book is off-limits.
>>85506825>bad faithYou don't know what this means. You've proven that several times.>You can't possibly believe you are making an earnest argument, can you?You call any earnest argument "bad faith". The answer is no, just because you paid for paper in binding doesn't mean you are entitled to use it it at every game you play it. That's the facts, a GM is 100% within their right to tell you to fuck off because they're the game MASTER and you're just a player. You have 0 say in the worldbuilding, setting, content allowed, houserules used, etc. unless he says you do, and he's said you don't.
>>85506832You are an actual retard or a troll, no grey area here.
>>85506825>Holy fucking bad faith batman!faggot>>>/r/eddit
>>85506835>I am a controlling and toxic person who will bludgeon everybody I can over the head with any tiny amount of power I can get my nasty little claws onTranslated that from underdark for you.
>>85506837Projecting, I see.
>>85506847>no u!back to this again? *yawn* You really are exhausting.
>>85506846>I am a controlling and toxic person who will bludgeon everybody I can over the head with any tiny amount of power I can get my nasty little claws onNo, I want to run a TTRPG and I want the setting to be internally consistent. There's no room in my setting for official races, as I only run 100% homebrew races in my settings that I myself have made. My setting exists as it is, and if you don't like that you can leave and find a new group.
This kid really just googled a list of fallacies, didn't he?
>>85506857Why are people who make homebrew setting always the most toxic and unlikeable grognards. I bet you're the same people who try to gatekeep new players out of the hobby.
>>85506857> want to run a TTRPG and I want the setting to be internally consistentBased>I only run 100% homebrew races in my settings that I myself have madeCringeOverall, miles better than any exclusive player based on the fact you are willing DM
>>85506860While sniffing glue i presume
>>85506871I think WOTC's official settings are all lazy steaming dogshit and I know for a fact I can make a better TTRPG than they can (I've done it several times to the point I have players clamoring to play and even run them) so my races are obviously more balanced.>>85506862>NOOOO I CANT PLAY MY SPESHUL SNOWFLAKE HALF TABAXI HALF AASIMAR HALF TIEFLING NOOOOOOTranslated that from Underdark for you.>I bet you're the same people who try to gatekeep new players out of the hobby.Gatekeeping is a foolish endeavor with TTRPGs, because anyone can make one, anyone can play one, but I will absolutely kick toxic faggots like (you) out of my games who bitch and moan because they don't get their way all the time.
>>85506862Would you rather he not GM?Cool, pick up the screen and do it yourself, you fucking faggot.
>>85506885>>85506860>you're a child if you disagree with meThe argument of a man who does in fact have no arguments.You are not worth engaging with,You will only argue in bad faith,
>>85506892You are really hateful, have you ever though about, and bear with me hear, maybe, just maybe, letting people enjoy things?
>>85506892> a fact I can make a better TTRPG than they can We definitely have to have a /tg/ variant of Navy Seal copypasta but about homebrew game designBut nevermind, still would rather have you around then 'but muh option books' deadweight leeches.
>>85506904They're free to enjoy whatever they want - but so am I, and I don't have to bend the knee as Game Master. They can go be a game master themselves or play with a group who gives them the game they want. I am not obligated to torture myself or butcher my setting for anyone else.>>85506914>We definitely have to have a /tg/ variant of Navy Seal copypasta but about homebrew game designI'm not perfect (the fact I have one system in active testing that has had its stat system overhauled twice now is evidence of that) but hey, at least I'm actually playtesting and taking the playtesters' suggestions into consideration unlike WOTC who just listened to grogs who wanted MUH OLD.
>>85506914Seems like only one person here would dissagree with your last statement, care to guess who? He'll likely be back to "b-b-bad faith, you no matter"
>>85506934You're really dramatic. The way you type makes it seem like you think there's great gravitas to what you say and it's really cringe inducing to watch.
>>85506952Or the "u no argument" variant he already played several times
>>85506953You want to run a game instead?
>>85506965I run a bunch of games, what are you talking about?
>>85506974Cool. Go run those and ignore the people doing it wrong.
>>85506976I think you're confusing me for someone I am not.
>>85506983God this thread is so fucking infuriating. My apologies, anon, we have such rampant faggotry afoot I did some friendly fire.Well, 'friendly.' Insofar as friendly targets can be identified on an anonymous Korean underwater basket-weaving forum.
>>85507002Why are you so mad
>>85506653Yes, it is arbitrary.The GM is the arbitrator.That is the whole point.
>>85506953Because I AM better than you, if only because I run games instead of leeching off of other people. You have the option to allow whatever you want as GM, and I won't stop you or tell you not to, but as a player have to accept the limitations the GM puts on the game or find a new table.
>>85506457>You're REALLY gonna fucking sit there and tell me that I'm being a tyrannical asshole because I don't take shit from whiners and assclownsYes.Games aren't about the GMs fun. It's about the players fun. If you're denying the players their fun, then you're in the wrong, and if you the GM insist upon having fun, then you're a tyrant.Sic semper tyrannis.
>>85507013God you're gross, I feel like I need a shower after reading your posts
>>85507010Because I hate entitled players more than anything under the goddamn sun.It's not race, ethnicity, creed, trade, faith, nor the politics that make me hate a man.It's their firm belief that they're the victim, and you are not doing enough for them, despite going out of your way to host, set up, prepare, and run something for THEIR fucking entertainment. It's not enough to pour your heart and soul into a creative activity for the enjoyment of a group of people you like, it's not enough to say you'll narrate them through whatever fucking retarded-ass choices they make, it's not enough to join in the fun when someone gets a great roll or pulls off something memorable that'll be spoken of for years to come.You need to do it THEIR precise way.And I fucking hate that more than anything else. It's a cancer that must be expunged from the hobby.
>>85507029>It's a cancer that must be expunged from the hobby.We outnumber you. You WILL run games which cater to us, or you'll be made to do so. Your consent is not required, nor is your fun.
>>85507015And yet, if the GM isn't having fun, then he won't run the game.Where are the players then? Up shit creek without a paddle, because they won't step up to the plate and make their own fun.
>>85507029You sound like you need everyone to do things your precise way, are you projecting? Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
>>85507045DMs are a diamond dozen, you can literally buy a new one for $10
>>85507060>diamond dozenI stand corrected.I hate ONE other thing more than entitled piece of shit players.It's people who are so retarded they don't know the phrase is 'a dime a dozen.'
>>85507066You sound like an elitist loser. So elite you have to spend all your time by yourself because no one can stand you and you cope by saying you're better than everyone.
>>85507042>Your consent is not requiredOne player doesn't come to a game - the game still happensOne DM doesn't come to the game - it doesn't.It's that simple. And the fact that seat-warmers around the table outnumber DMs literally means the exact opposite of what you're trying to pull out of your leech-like mouth-rectum - there's always more players to find after you ditch the shit ones.
>>85507042The delusion, now i pitty him.I'm also amused at how he claims GMs are tyrannicals if they don't submit. While in the same sentence claiming the GM deserve no fun and are there just to serve. I could make a joke out of this and it wouldn't be as funny
>>85505236>>85505337>>85505484KILL YOURSELF CHUD
>>85507092Do it anyways.
>>85507114Oh i will, this is comedy gold, my players and I will laugh at this for quite a while, the level of disconnect and double standards of the guy is astonishing
>>85505361>Invalidating my purchase invalidates my labor I used to purchase the book as well. it's like telling me my time has no value.You sound like a massive fag
>>85507060So why don't you?
>>85507042So the DM is just the player's slave?
>>85507190Sure feels that way when dealing with an entitled player, until you eject them from the game.
>>85505196How about you GM the fucking game, because you know so much better.
>>85505196If only it was a supplemental book with prestige classes or epic destines.... 5e is soo shit.I wouldn't allow you to use Volo's guide just to justify playing a furry, fuck you.
>>85505994No. Buying the book entitles you to receiving a copy of the book from the seller. Nothing else.
>>85505826>playable gnomes Dropped
>>85505399Checked. Got 'eem!/thread
>>85505541The adventure is the heroes are chosen by the gods for to purge Faerun of deviant furries.
>>85505196You shouldn't be buying books unless you are going to DM a game. Yes, even the Player's Handbook. It's not your job to run the game for the DM.
>>85505361>Invalidating my purchase invalidates my labor I used to purchase the book as well.lol no it doesn't. you choosing to waste your money "invalidates" your labor. when you poop, does it "invalidate" the labor you used to buy the food?
>>85507762Kirk Lazarus wants a word with you
>>85507093kill me yourself, coward
>>85505196/thread and it goes in all fields
>>85505813Yes. Be sorry.
>>85505196>5e>Buying booksYou're an idiot if you do anything other than snag your info off of a wiki or pirate a PDF. However, 5e has so little content as is, your DM's a pussy if he bans anything official.
>>85508559>reaching this farYou literally do not know how to craft an argument
>>85506517>What leverage?That will vary by person, though >>85506462 often works - which doesn't necessitate active engagement in sexual activity, just baiting some shameful fetish and threaten doxing them. Or threatening their employment status (if employed), or indebting them (if unemployed, neet will often struggle to pay off even very modest sum), or undermining their standing with parents / gf (if any), there's many options - you need to choose according to specific situation.>actively looking for ways to force someone to do what you want is kind of sociopathicNah, that's integral part of human nature, everyone does that to some extent, as the popular phrase put it - you are not immune to propaganda. I admit that people are usually more subtle about it, but subtlety would be wasted on D&D.
The absolute state of hasdrones.
>>85509333>You're an idiot if you do anything other than snag your info off of a wiki or pirate a PDF.cope and seethe poorfag
>>85505196What stuff you wanted to use?
>>85505196Nobody owes you shit, especially not the guy who's going to the time and effort to organize and run the game for your ungrateful ass.>invalidating my purchaseHow so? Is the movie theater invalidating your purchase of custom ringtones when it asks you to put your phone on silent?>there's no point to me buying booksYeah no shit, unless you're a GM or a collector, there's no reason to drop fifty bucks on something you aren't going to use, especially when all the information you are actually going to need is free online.>>85505361>invalidates my laborLabor theory of value is a pile of horse shit. Value is determined by utility and demand.>telling me my time has no valueThe GM puts in far more work to a game than you, the player, will. By your own labor based metric, his time is far more valuable and his word has primacy, because he worked harder for this than you did. Demanding you be accommodated because you bought a book without checking to make sure it's approved for the game is invalidating his labor and telling him his invested time has no labor.
>>85510729>has no laborHas no value, rather.
>>85510626https://youtu.be/rcBGlHDYibo?t=173Well, if they don't fit the world what can you do. Allowing every single race every single time would restrict all adventures to Sigil only.
>>85509802Anon, actively seeking a means by which to entrap someone with blackmail so as to force them to do whatever you want is textbook psychopathic manipulative behavior. Most people do not engage in social interaction with the goal of getting leverage to control the people around them. See a psychiatrist.
>>85505361Regular people aren't obligated to validate your purchases, labor, or time.
>>85509802You honestly sound like a moron with delusions of machiavellian grandeur. Not to mention a psychopath incapable of understanding basic human relationships beyond using others to get what you want ... or, by the looks of it, pathetically attempting to use others and probably only getting your way out of their pity, if at all.
>>85505196>If I buy a book, the DM has to let me use stuff from it, right?If you buy the DM the book and they don't already have it, it's a good option. But talk to your DM before you go buying them books incase they already have it.
>>85505196Why are D&D players such entitled, passive aggressive little shits?
>>85510768We are playing in Forgotten Realms where Tabaxi are a main race.
>>85506121As a GM I am in high demand. As a player you are worth nothing. And at the end of the day even if I have zero players I can still run solo RPGS. Now bow to your king.
Post thread survey: On a scale of 1 to 10, how mad did you get when participating in this thread?
>>85505361>invalidates my laborThink of it this way, anon.If you were going to play monopoly with your friends and you went to the game store and bought an extra pack of monopoly cash do you think they'd let you use that stack as your own personal bankroll at the start of the game?
>>85506653>He doesn't understand macro inconsistency with micro consistencyThe Forgotten Realms are inconsistent at every table but within every table the Forgotten Realms is consistent.
>>85510973>main raceThe only races and classes available by default are the ones in the player handbook. If it's in a splat you have to ask.Aside from that though, Forgotten Realms are peak kitchen sink fantasy. Are you gonna throw a fit if the GM doesn't include every little thing like cramming a ton of shit in a blender to try and make a smoothie?
>>85510970Because D&D is tabletop for normalfags. They watch critical role and see it as a perfect audience as attention seekers wanting to live our their self insert fantasties or mcuesque smoothmind drama.Hasbro saw these consoomer cattle and jumped on it as a way to stay afloat as magic really started to decline in interest and sales compared to pokemon and yugioh and has basically curated an audience of emotionally unstable man and womanchildren as their core audience that consume product while getting excited for next product while being terminally online and ironically being unable to seperate games from reality.Y'know looking back its funny how movies like mazes and monsters sold deluded trpg players as some satanic panic thing when it really happened and all we got was people in their 30's acting like tweens with undiagnosed ADHD.
>>85510973You're playing in the parts where Tabaxi are common?So, there is Tabaxi npc, but players can't pick it? What DM said about why the race is restricted?The bottom line is determining does the group composition and what DM told you about campaign sound fun? If it doesn't just don't play, you won't enjoy it even if you somehow force your tabaxi in.Because it sounds like DM and you having very different expectations of the adventure, and that never ends well.
>>85510973The only reason you'd tell someone they can't play Tabaxi is if you're a racist chud.Your DM sounds like a trumpster
is the broken ego OP still at it? nice, his bitching and mental gymnastics have made a dull day hilarious
>>85511302hopefully he'll still be riled up during the rest of my shift so I will have someone to laugh about
>>85506416Here we see the teenager try to buttress his position by 'helpfully' pointing out the point his post was SUPPOSED to make.Protip, hot shot, if you have to explain the joke, you've already lost.
>>85511329he is the lack of self awareness personified. I wonder if he's training for some olympic level of mental gymnastics
>>85505541>dig that human fighters can't be interestingWhy can't humans be interesting? Why can't human fighters be interesting?
Forever GMs rise up! Day of the player purge, when?
>>85511608There is no need. Players will always, no matter how they cry and beat their chests, be dependent on the GMs. Deep down they know that they're replaceable, and they hate it.
>>85505598>I'm asking about an official Wizards of the Coast sourcebook,It's official WoTC policy (that they publicly state within most sourcebooks) that the GM is free to ignore, reject, or modify any of the contents of their sourcebooks for any reason. According to Wizards own rules the GM is under no obligation to include their stuff just because its official.
>>85505196No. Not at all.Buying books for yourself means that you get to use them:>When you're running the game>When your DM/GM allows materials from themBecause that means it's either your call to begin with or it's their call what they want to allow in their game.Instead of coming to /tg/ and asking what etiquette is, maybe you should communicate with your DM about whether they'd be interested in using additional sourcebooks. Being able to talk to everyone else in your group is a skill that is crucial to having a good time playing RPGs, because it's a social activity.
>>85510868>>85510949I get along with normal people just fine without resorting to any sort of coercion, most will repay courtesy with courtesy, those who don't are easily identified and avoided, so any reasonable goals can be attained through politeness, persistence, and hanging around the right sort of people.At the table you are in entirely different territory though, social norms go out of the window because average gamer doesn't know, doesn't care, or is physically incapable of working with them. So you need to leverage your goals with force and as bluntly as possible, because that's often the only approach they understand.
>>85505236Fpbp, OP wants validation for his faggotry.
>>85512053your sock puppets don't count as normal people
>>85512053>People engaged in a predominantly social activity don't understand social cues/don't view interacting with other people as a series of transactions>To get what I want I will actively look for and/or create weaknesses I can exploit to force the people around me to bend to my willAgain, textbook psychopathic manipulative thinking and behavior. I sincerely hope you're just pulling a sad internet tough guy act. If you aren't, see a doctor. Your life will be made better for it.
>>85512166the fact that he started a thread just to troll around and throw statements along the line of "mah value, mah validation, I are oppressed, mah GM slave" makes it quite obvious that no empathy can be grasped by his smoothbrain. he is indeed a sad delirious young man who has seen too many edgelords and is probably trying real hard to be one
>>85512286The amount of anger OP caused is amazing.
>>85512384while I can't speak for the rest, I can at least say that what keeps me here is amusement and not anger. I can't just not laugh at his trolling, mental gymnastics, and backwards logic. he might have wanted to troll us for his own amusement, so I did as such and got a kick out of him and his bitchy attitude
>>85505196If you tought you'll get a better answer here than you got on Reddit, I only hope you get tongue cancer with bone metastasizes so you won't be able to whine or write your idiotic ego trips.Get fucked cunt!
>>85512494so he pulled the same shit on reddit? why am I not surprised? was it as delusional as he was here?
>>85512494>admitting to using redditishygddt
>>85507706>Gnomes are FreakshitThis meme tickles meBasically, Gygax wanted there to be a fruitier race to point the people who wanted to play an elf or a halfling or dwarf for laughs so you're not wrong. Gnomes are indeed the designated ridiculous race.
>>85512494You seem intensely angry.
>>85505329>because managing 7 goddamn pdfs to plan an encounter is bullshit.How is managing 7 physical books any better? Swapping tabs/windows seems much easier.
I actually agree with OP, the DM is denying him the fruits of his labor.
>>85512494Reddit, telling someone that they're a faggot? I don't believe you, post screenshots or a link.
>>85512521Exactly the same. >>85512563We all have guilty pleasures.>>85512577Of course I am. Reddit "D&D 5e only best game ever LOLSORANDOM" idiots started to creep even here. It's like finding rats in your pantry.
>>85512700You should calm down.
>>85505196Allow me to congratulate OP on his clearly very effective bait, and call everyone to took it retarded.
>>85505329You know 5etools exist right?
>>85512700Wait, which subreddit was that in? I scrolled through a few days' worth of posts on both dnd and dndnext and got nothing
>>85515507You got tricked into reading reddit posts lol
>>85515636Dang it. This fucking thread.And yeah, scrolling through hundreds of pointless questions and clueless idiots, all posters apparently without access to google and ability to read long-form text, took it's toll on me. >Where do I begin?>How to get a group?>How to start DMing?>How to build a hexblade?>Which books should I buy?Over and over and over again... Jesus help these poor souls.
>>85505494It does if the setting as written before that point did not include tabaxi as a species.
>>85508500You let your players show up with absolutely nothing but snacks and beer and no character sheet?
>>85515846If you took even a second to put effort into a single thing in your life and read the thread you would know it was Forgotten Realms.
ITT: Furry faggot is extra salty his freakshit isn't allowed in the game even when he's spent money on the book without discussing it with his DM first, because 'official book for official setting muh entitlement to fun from his game'.Let me guess - you've already commissioned art of your character as well, didn't you?
>>85515992You sound very upset.
>>85515992Doesn't base DnD already let you be a furry anyways?
>>85516453> let youNone of 'well, your DM will most probably be okay with it' races in PHB are furry (one is scaly though). Splats have a bunch - owls, hares, cats, sorta-lycanthropes and so on, but being splats those are definitely in the 'up to DM' territory even if they're setting-specific.
>>85516471It's beside the point really, books have nothing to do with it, if DM wants a human-only campaign, he'll do human-only campaign, and it doesn't matter that dwarves and elves are in phb.(It isn't good to not tell players about having race restrictions beforehand though)