This is a crowd sourced endeavor to create a setting and rpg.What was produced is pic related, the setting of LEVIATHAN (the name is a work in progress), the World of Sacred Oil and Broken Stone. The purpose of this thread is to organize to continue filling out the Lore Document, congregate for map making, and for developing an RPG system for this setting.The story of the world is emergent, being developed as we discuss and explore the Compass. The Docs provides most in-depth explanations of most items, but the main conflicts of the setting are as follows:> The Lapsarians have a secret Bargain with the Ocean Gods for Oil: A fuel source, the heart of the recent industrialization, and food-item which provides boons to those who consume it, though at a cost> The Durite people who are colonized by the Lapsarians are revolting, drawing from both traditional and newfound powers to fight back against their oppressors> The remnants of old Lapsarian Rebellions, such as the Last Captain and his crew, still haunt the waters where they were defeated, a sacrifice as part of the Bargain> New powers, like the Industrialists and the Tycoons, fight for dominance in the cities, opposing both each other and other groups (such as the mysterious Hooks) in an ever escalating conflict> All the while and above all human struggles, the Monolith and the Sea Gods exert their influence, their goals (if any) unknowableLore Dump Document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RjU2GkiDq5tJ8Ih9A9LxyHhC3cvmQANYG579UDgxuOM/edit?usp=sharingRPG System: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f5_EIAdm3fwycQjU4nyoCoAqdRtDj0-rDgtw170SpsALast thread: >>82155056Ongoing Discussions:>Filling the last two compass slots>The location of major Lapsarian cities
>>82165004>someone has scrambled GeorgiaIt's mounatins, they have well defined physical borders.>mayham of three different ethnicities going on around the UralYeah, it's quite wild place. But to be real local tatars are quite distant from central asia turks and sami population is low.
>>82165045Repost on this thread for visibility >>82165053
Just a reminder to go to /suptg/ to vote for threads. Not only for selfish reasons, this ensures they are properly updated.
Repost from last threadI sit by the warm fire reading my manuscripts trying to ignore the hustle and bustle of the capital's busy streets that only seem to grow louder with machines and people as the years go by. I hear a creak at my door to find one of my prized pupils, my chief solider in the war of archeologist and phrenologist in the universities anthropology department.He comes to me today with a question. "Sir, is it true you've actually gone and seen the Monolith in person?"I knew I'd have to tell this story again eventually. Can't rightfully claim to be a premier expert on the Vastian Wasteland and it's scattered tribes, cults, and rock eaters without having at least seen the monolith in person."Yes, but it was many years ago now, before the durite occupation. Back when our people, well, tolerate would be a bit of a strong word their but back when I was able to put enough coin together to convince a durite pilgrim to escort me into the vastian waste and join him in his journey to the monolith."My pupil already fascinated by the tale pulled up one of my chairs closely and listened with intent. I pulled out my narwhal ivory pipe and begin to light it, letting the smoke take me back to that time."It was a long journey, and probably more tedious and boring then you're expecting. endless tracts of dry rock and sand broken up only by the occasional boulder pile. It was like that for weeks. Despite this I never truly felt alone, and I don't mean my durite companion either. Especially at night as I watched the stars from my tent around the fire I felt a presence beneath me. Something moving the earth under me while somehow being both motionless and silent. It's hard to explain without having experienced. My Durite guide informs it's just the children of stone making their way. Simply called the delvers as his people did. Surely some kind of mythical religious spirit of some kind and just some tremor I reasoned. Regardless we moved forward."
>>82165066>It's mounatins, they have well defined physical borders.maybe, but on that map it's a three-for-all of four ethnicities
>>82165126Sure, you didn't see linguistic map of caucasus yet.
>Roll Phrenology>Decide all suuri savages are the same lower breed of people>Roll Academic - Anthropology>Decide all of them worship the wrong things anyways, so it's alright if we shoot a few of the apes>Roll Gossip, Bargain>Name three tribes I think are the ugliest after my coworkers
>>82165138you dropped an article there, Ruski
>The location of major Lapsarian citiesWe should probably start spitballing city names and descriptions tomorrow.
Ok I am making a sort of label thing for the map. I think this works.
>>82165233yea, looks very good. if you want some Lapsarian religious iconography, it'd be an upturned eye
You guys been adding more and more details to things, but have you considered that keeping stuff purposely vague would make for a better setting? For example, in Mork Borg RPG descriptions of pretty much anything - places, monsters, artifacts - are just couple of sentences long, just enough to fuel reader's imagination to fill the gaps, especially when combined with the metal-album-cover art. Maybe it's just my monkey brain, but that compass alone - with it short quips and simple but evocative art - is giving similar vibes.Then again, go wild. No one's ever forced to use RPG rulebooks in their entirety.
>>82165111"Things truly became fascinating as we grew closer to the center. Large outcroppings of quartz crystals of varying hues and colors came into view. Some as small as pebbles and others the size of a house.""Speaking of which some of the large boulders had been carved out by the pilgrims to use as shelters from the occasional dust storm or just to wait out the nights. They claimed that these structures had always been their but clearly someone...or something carved the stone, their were enough scrap marks to prove it.""Regardless it was at one of these pilgrimage sites that my guide met up with some of the others and spent the night in one listening to their melancholic droning string instruments. They said they sang to the stones and the stone sang back. And indeed within that chamber the stones did make music, but it was simply echoing from the music the durites played.""The next morning we were awakened rudely by some mad stone eaters, claimed this was their eating spot. Or at least that was all I could make out in their mad ravings before the Durites scared them off with sword and shouts of their own. The Durites told me the stone eaters were nothing more then pest who disrespected the stone by devouring them, but they try to avoid killing them since they are a child of stone with so much stone inside them and would bring bad luck to kill one."
>>82165244>in Mork Borg RPGBruh at least pick something that isn't shit.And yes the principle has been discussed
>>82165244We want to fill common knowledge gap, just something almost every commoner NPC would know if player ask him.
>>82165237I'm doing that for the Compass Rose.
>>82165258Can I steal it for Ververian map?
>>82165258nice. It really is very good, and I say that as someone who does stylized 17th century maps for fun.
Serious question lithography and printing press exists in universe?
>>82165283Its an era where newspaper tycoons are rising, it's to mass printing rather than just the press.
>>82165314So, at least dwelvers of big cities must be well informed about shit happens in the world, even with censored press.
>>82165246"Another week of travel came and went and the further inward we came the more we saw of other pilgrims and the marks they've left. Menhir's and other stone carvings became more common but most abundant along the main pilgrimage route. The large quartz crystals became less abundant above ground but if it wasn't for the mercy of my guide I would've dropped to my death nearly wandering into a quartz crystal gorge, to distracted with my pencil rubbings of the carving runes.""We camped near that gorge that night, I sat next to the fire compiling my notes on what I had taken so far. All was quite and peaceful, something that both calmed and unnerved me so as it was ever present within the vast and only seemed to grow more distinct the further in we got. I was the last asleep at this point in the night, even the pilgrims that spent a fair bit of the night singing stories and drinking songs were past out. It was then that I heard it. It sounded not unlike the music of the durite musicians but deeper and humming and perfectly still...it was coming from the gorge. Despite my earlier near accident I couldn't keep myself away from it. I had to know what was making that beautiful awful terrifying sound. I crawled carefully to the edge and the crystals themselves were vibrating with color and life of their own. My eyes were dazzled by the spectacle as moonlight danced around the crystals like the most graceful dancers you've ever seen.""But the crystals were only echoing the song, they were not the ones singing it. I peered down further into the darkness and saw the singers, they were staring intently at me with large glowing glassy eyes. They did not speak but I knew what they were, and they were in their own way asking me to join them.""I did not sleep well the rest of that night."
>>82165355"Now unlike the mad lad you've likely read about in the broad sheets I never actually got to touch the Monolith, never had the opportunity. Nor would have my guide let me but I did see it, and the experience has stayed with me ever since.""My guide at the time took me off the main pilgrimage route by this point, stating that he wanted my first view of the Monolith to be as close as possible so I can take in it's majesty all at once. So we headed through a valley several days of travel long. At the end all I head to do was turn a corner around a cliff face and I would see the monolith for myself up close and personal. My guide refused to join me, he said I should have my first experience with it alone and so I did.""What I saw was a gigantic rectangular pillar of white stone that was taller then the highest cathedral bell towers and wider the Tsarina's palace. But it wasn't just the enormity of it's size that struck me at first...but it's geometric perfection. It was seamless stone, edges as sharp as a blade, it's color a purer white the freshly driven snow, it's symbols and writings immaculate in their construction and awe-inspiring in their geometric exactness. That was just the physical part of it though. After the awe of it's physical presence faded what remained was the sickening dread of realization at the implications of what it was I was exactly seeing. What was I exactly seeing? It was to large to be a man made structure but far to perfect to be all together natural either, my brain racked itself trying to rationalize a how or why or what I was beholding and nothing I could conjure with my decades of research could provide me any solution or solace. What was before me just was, defying all known logic and scientific principle it was a fixed point so concrete and certain in it's solidity it cared not to give reason for it did not need it. It didn't need anything, it was any and all things at once and at the same time none of them at all."
>>82165497"The weight of it's visage, it's presence, it's...everything. Was to much for me and I next awoke next to my guide late at night. Hours must've passed, and my guide had finished his pilgrimage rites and was prepared to head back the next day. I could no longer see the Monolith in the distance, we had to have been several miles out. But I could still feel it's presence. I could feel it's aura burning through all the rock and rubble blocking my view. I knew exactly where it was know...and even know as an old man I can always tell which direction the monolith is, I could make that trek again with my eyes closed...but I dare not. I sat there staring out into the middle distance, fumbling with a slab of stone in my hands until my body gave out again to sleep. I would make my way back to civilized society with no further interruption but after that I refocused my studies on other cultures that surrounded or traveled through the vast, and avoided the monolith itself as best I could. But even know I still hold on the slab I found that day. Apparently I carved the symbols of the monolith onto it, but I don't actually recall when I did it...simply my mind beginning to succumb to old age I'm afraid.""Regardless, that is my story. Now it is getting late and the student curfew is still in effect even for good students like you." I said shooing the boy away and he followed my order quickly enough.I reach for an old silver box on my desk and take out that old slab. Even now every time I look upon it the carvings are different and I find myself losing vision. I've already begun developing cataracts in my right eye. Simply old age I say lying to myself and put the rock back in it's box. Stumble my way to my chair, and fall asleep exhausted by my recounting by the warm fire.
Ok, trying the compass rose now.
>>82165213Redoubt St. Volkov, a large fortified town in Verkhovoy Timajor.Originally just a garrison town on the northern frontier, the advent of the railroad in Lapsaria combined with the expansion of the labor camps in Verkhovoy Timajor breathed new life into the town. Redoubt St. Volkov is now the primary hub in the region for both soldiers and prisoners heading into the north and metal and minerals heading into the south. Also, here's a shitty map I made of the named and placed cities and towns in Lapsaria plus the one I just did as well as a start to a potential map of the railway situation in Lapsaria, including an abandoned line to the deserted capital. Definitely needs a line heading east from Timajortura into Kossoki or Durit lands, a bigger concentration of rail lines around the capital and heartlands and a line heading to somewhere on the Venit. Maybe one to Synance too if we get a location for it.
Ok, how does this look?
>>82165679Looks nice, but I am not sure that compass position is correct in physical meaning, these will be curves rather than straight lines.
>>82165111>>82165246>>82165355>>82165497>>82165570Great work, anon
>>82165738Agreed. That's good shit.
This is as much as I can do tonight, thanks lads.
>>82165849Nice done.Gonna make physical map of Jesentorph today.Btw can you share your assets for my maps to keep the same style along all maps.
>>82165849I'm not sure we should have all the same assets, since not everyone should have the three fish/roses or a compass rose with the Upturned Eye.
>>82165881Meant to reply to >>82165873. I'll still share them, but not until tomorrow, I gotta go to bed.
>>82165881I was talking more about border lines, fonts and map ideograms.
>>82165889Oh, my borders are literally just dashes placed along a path in gimp. The Font: Palatino Linotype BoldPic related are the map markers.
>>82165902The main road dashes' hex code is: ae3a3aThe internal border dashes' hex code is: 5d5c2bThen international border dashes are pure black.I use pic related as a mask above everything to give it the right texture.
>>82165902>>82165914Probably a good idea to save that info somewhere, just in case someone wants to make changes to the map or make a map of their own in the same style.
>>82165930I'll either put it into the doc or some nice anon will put it there. For now though, I sleep.
>>82165849>anon shitposts in a compass thread>two weeks later nice maps are being drawn
Slightly better texture for Ververia. But we still have to do some color correction because of different software, if want to stitch them together to one big map.
>>82165849I've done a bit more of a detailed ethnic map.
>>82166133>>82166133obviously up for suggestions, the ethnicities aren't labled but should be largely obvious.
>>82166133>>82165849oh, looks like that Southern stretch between Masovii and Jasntorf is Lapsarian? What ethnicities are supposed to be there?
>>82166133What is under white color in Capri bay?
>>82166209Cleaners, Ghosts and Die Hards.
>>82166236Looks like this place was nuked.
>>82165045Is there any plan to use this in an actual game with a legitimate system or is this just more lorefag cringe?
Shouldn't Coral Addict be a bit more to the right? Considering how Great Reef "turns sea into stone" and is pretty much made out of coral.
>>82166555If you are too much of a faggot to read the OP, you need to lurk more before posting
>>82166625lmao, bit thin skinned for 4chan my dude
>>82166631>ur crybabyStop, I can't take this cutting banter.
>>82166133Little changes on the map
Alright, since we're talking about potential gameplay, may I suggest we try to utilize an existing system, probably d20 or GURPS, maybe even Call of Cthulu. I especially like the idea of the latter two.
>>82166660Not a fan of the one we've been collaboratively building?
>>82166663I didn't think it had progressed very far, but I will look again.
This looks like cool shit, monitoring.
>>82166673oh it hasn't, resources are currently pooled elsewhere. If you wanna start a different option based on d20 or GURPS, go ahead
Guy who made those rebels narwhals here, I just woke up.It was just a meme about based on a part of the lyrics of that old narwhal video.Some other anon said the sword were made from coral/stone and that's why those whales were mad/outside of control.But it was just a joke anyway, so feel free to retcon.Not that it matters anyway, it seems no one bothers to actually read what was written in the past threads or the archive, it's much easier to just see a small bit and be outraged about it.
>>82166780Thanks for setting the record straight. Don't know why that generated a lot of hullabaloo. >>82166690I have IRL stuff for today, but as I get downtime, I'll scrape together the relevant GURPS stuff.
>>82166780oh I read the doc (and it didn't match your description well) and I was still outraged
>>82166865Looking at the docs again, it seems that it would make it easier for people to see it was a meme if the>stops chtulu from eating yeHad been copypasted as well.
>>82166903But the fact that people would rather be outraged about something other than looking at the discussion still stands.All it would take was one control-f on the same thread to find it.
>>82166927oh yea, i definitely prefer that too
>>82166830The fact that some of the characters on the compass are pepes instead of wojaks only makes this image better.
Drew Jesentorf and unknown lands
>>82167092looks great. I do recommend though to scale down the amount of colours for the shore if you want it to be compatible with CCA's maps which have only four water colours.
>>82167092Nice.Only problem is that CCA was going to give Jasentorf more mountains when he got back to the large map, so it may make your map outdated.
>>82167129>Jasentorf more mountainsI have .sai2 file with unique layer for every level, so it won't be really hard to modify map.
>>82167293That's good, so wherever he puts those mountains you can just edit them in.
>>82166652Maybe get a few more pockets of kossoki around The original suggestion did say they were basically everywhere Also wasn’t the idea to have the Masovii somewhat distant, and the Durites controlling land routes out of Lapsaria, hence the annexation
>>82167928yea that didn't really get through to the map process. I blame the completed internal colonization. If we had areas of unclaimed steppe between the powers it would have worked with old canon
>>82166903>>82166780The issue is mostly arising from people copying down everything and trying to make it coherent after instead of just discussing it out and deciding what to keep
>>82167955Honetly, if everything wasn't copypasted than there would be even more lost and confusion, since the whole dillema started because a line was left out and no one bothered to actually search the thread for context.
>>82168105the dilemma was that either a.) a joke that wasn't meant to be in the lore was put in the lore or b.) one of the basic parts of the setting, that whales are instruments of the king was subverted with minimal discussion. Both not great
>>82168163>with minimal discussion.That's the big problem. A big lore change was proposed, even within the context of a joke, and only one or two replies appeared.And that happens constantly, only really getting discussed when someone brings up something way after the fact, and rarely getting a definitive solution (Vervaria and the Lapsarian faith are proof of this, they constantly get mentioned, but nothing really comes out of it.).Better to have all the conversations saved before condesing, than to hope anons will randomly decide to start talking about a small bit and agree on something.I think the true reason is that the northern border is in an state that there have been enough suggestions already that creativity and memes need to stop for a bit and something coherent be put in stone in the docs befire we continue adding more to them.
so I think it's about time we talk about Lapsarian religion again because there seems to be some confusion as to the actual nature of their worship.what we know so far is that they explicitly don't, repeat do not worship any eldritch fishy entities in the state religion. Though they do have some fishy iconography.My suggestion has always been some kind of god that is an anthropomorphic representation of the sea itself, as opposed to being any kind of watered down fish worship. I feel the god of this religion shouldn't be "real" in the sense that he talks to people, grants blessings or causes miracles. Just the central figure of worship for those of the Lapsarian faith.
>>82168403Personally I'd prefer everything be discussed but actually voted upon when we start the next thread.
>>82168403>>82168427I think we just need to be mindful about confirming stuff with discussion after we have ideas with large lore implications, as it allows for people in multiple timezones to weigh in as well, so things don't go into canon because the two australians agreed on something
>>82168427How about discussed, saved in the docs temporaly so it's not forgotten, and than we filter the good from the bad in the next thread?Thay way nothing gets missed, like for example Masovii having airships in one thread, and in the next when a ramdom discussion about their military no one remembered?
>>82168416sure, let's do it that way. Basically Tengri but for the sea.We don't really have any information on the Durite religion other than there are shamans and that there are pilgrimages to the monolith and it works just fine. So I don't feel super inconvinienced by not having much to go on with the Lapsarians.
>>82168403>>82168427 >>82168487also worth noting that the Doc isn't set in stone or sacred gospel, it's also a forum for discussion and if you have issues you can raise them there as well.most common ways I've seen this done are either with comments in the side bar or just using a vibrant highlight colour
>>82168403what happens, in practice, and what has happened five or six times already, is that stuff gets copied into the google doc without a word, nobody looks at it and then two threads later people say "well this is like X, because it says so in the google doc" even though X is flagrantly in conflict with higher level lore. It's definitely not a practice that had very positive effects.
>>82168487Forgot to say it would stop the copy paste discussion bloat, but still allow people from other timezones to know about things without rereading threads.>>82168416Could the iconoclast lore somehow be mixed with it, or does it get dropped?
>>82168522we could have the stone iconoclasts be a minority religion that has become outlawed, kinda tying in with the carver monk on the compass
>cancerman thread is still upthis site's been overrun by reddit.
>>82168519we should try and avoid thinking the Doc is somehow more legitimateIt is just as work in progress as anything we discuss on the threads, and should be treated no higher. it is simply a way to document ideas from the threads for later discussion, not a definitive canon to be followed
>>82168535I imagine they kind of had the reverse situation to Jasen with 15ish % stone with a small amount of people like the Yechods and a vast majority of fish. Though over the last century that's gone from 15% to 2% in reality and 0% on the demographics report.
>>82168535Hmm, the lore idea was that the iconoclast were the reason why the lapsarian population, which is overall stone aligned on the compass, would accept rock smashing out of nowhere.Just a sea god might make the civilians more fish than stone, even if they don't worship the gods, just because it would make them culturally place more importance on water.>>82168549Thank you for your scheduled visit, see you tomorrow.
>>82168597>>82168564this is a good point. It would be better if the relgion was rock-aligned but simply not monolithy
>>82168597>It has to be just one person telling me to fuck offHave you considered that people might just not want to see bald reddit man spammed everywhere on this board?
>>82168648The joy of a consistent thread presence is you can see when the IP counter does any actual shifts.Always going to be that one guy who wants another wheelchair thread instead though.
>>82168648>Why am I being told to fuck off in every thread I make?Idk, dude.
>>82168603Sea god and land god, from sea came life but on land came civilization, one is the father of the other/they are brothers so they don't fight.The religion itself is a mixture of folklore and the iconoclast refugees trying to spread their version of the faith, but since they didn't have numbers they inducted local shamans who didn't get the conceot very well and strated making things up.Or just cut the refugees althoger to not mirror too much real life with slavs converting to get legitimacy or whatever.82168636Lol, said the monolith, Lmao
>>82168689Always only one IP though, huh. I'll call you April.
>>82168703My default is piss-baby but that is just my preference. We shouldn't feed him too much, I like that we've always kept these setting focused.
82168671Want to see me increase the poster number while being the same person?Captha says: AVGNP
>>82168703>If I keep insisting that it's just one person that'll make it true.This is the first of these threads that I've dropped into. Sorry that your worldview can't handle more than one person disagreeing with you.
>>82168597>>82168535ooh how about this, seeing as on the map we had the original capital more inland on a river, the old city on capri bay belonged to a different ethnic group, from which the sea religion originated. The more og lapsarian faith was one of stone, but as the Capri assimilated into Lapsaria, which was then only a city state, the Capri religion grew into the majority and became the state religion as the original faith of the Lapsarians grew less common as it was discouraged by the state, and eventually was outlawed.we could have the reason for the popularity be a difference in style, where the teachings of the sea god were more like a monotheistic religion with commandments and rules.The stone faith that it took over being more like Shinto or Zen Buddhism, having tales with morals but otherwise a fairly passive religion.
>>82168734we could have the Capri religion being more structured and ordered, thus appealing to the Tsar of Lapsaria, who personally adopted it, along with his family.and have this all happen like 500-700 years ago, to give it time to spread. kinda like how rome got Christianized
>>82168831At that point it would likely be when Lapsaria was still divided principalities.
>>82168734>>82168831I guess we had the same idea was that the refugees were cristianizing the tsar, because they were jasentorf iconoclast runnig the country becaus ethe empire fell and the stone faiths started going early criatianity on one another.So it was kind of like the nestorian church mixed with othordoxy foinf to the tsar.Maybe we can mix both ideas >>82168734>>82168831>>82168695using a version of this and the dirty tricks the criatian missionariea used
>>82168840yeah I was thinking that it should be a little while before they conquered the Veniti or Timajor, probably a few centuries.
>>82168915>>82168840maybe even longer as the Kossoki adopted the Lapsarian faith like 500 years before the present, so like, maybe 700-800 years ago Lapsaria converted to the Capri faith
>>82168940I'd also recommend that, while the Kossoki adopted the creed, both them and the Timajor retained a 'stone style' of more decentralized faith with shrines.
>>82168877>>82168840Ok, so the lapsarians had a faith based on the sea god, than come these refugee with all these ideas from the fallen on centralization from the gilded empire.Only the ancestor of the tsar accepts it, he fully converts.The missionaries can't crack down on other faiths becuase it isn't how jasen does things, so instead they start this god of land and civilization to make so the lapsarians accept it.So the deacon represent the sea god, since no man lives in the sead, and the crown he passes to the tsar is the authority of the land god, since the land belongs to man.The Sinacean dualist is the direct fault of this. It was a mistake
>>82168971Oh, and this is why the kossoki prefer the tsar, the kossoki faith prefer the land where they wonder, they don't care about the water.So the tsar is the one they should respect.
>>82168549Here's a (you), don't leave ass prints on the door
>>82169034>Don't you dare complain about our memespam!
>>82168964I like that, as they're constantly moving they wouldn't be able to build churches wherever they go, and the Kossoki being an offshoot of Durite would likely have at least some cultural knowledge of stone working.ironically creating stone shrines to give their praise to the god of sea.>>82168984They prefer the church, and thus the Deacon, but they see the Tsar as responsible for the state and find many of the states rules objectionable. It's likely the Tsar's wish to reign them in is due to a concern that the Kossoki give the church a potential army, albeit a relatively small one, as skilled as they are. So the Tsar wishes to make them loyal to the crown instead, by giving them citizenship and preventing them from roaming as they traditionally do.
>>82169067It also neatly ties the state of the outer cultures in the compass. The Kossoki priest is one of my favorite entries.Speaking of which, does anyone have any ideas for the remaining spots on the chart? We're almost done.Also, do we have any base rules established for LEVIATHAN WARGAME?
>>82168512This.Something else people seem to forget is that any changes made to tthe Docs are saved in the Changes History, so anything anyone deletes is still up for auditioning.Maybe a good system for editing the docs is this:- If the part you want to edit is just copy-pasted from the thread, or just a bunch of ideas you're free to edit it however you like (Adding content, restructuring, even deleting stuff if talked with the thread)- If it's well structured text, minor revisions are ok, but any major changes should be made through commenting until thee tthread approves
>>82169105Someone talked about soft damage and hard damage for one of the rules.
>>82169067I may have mixed the kossoki and the yechod in my head for some reason, probably the gypsy influences.Feel free to ignore that part than.
>>82169105dunno if we have wargame rules yet, the CCA is mostly focusing on ttrpg rules right now, so if you have any ideas feel free to share
Can someone TLDR the Religion discussion for inclusion in the Docs? >>82168971 seems like an appropriate summary, But it's always good to check
>>82169230There seema ro still have two different ideas on the religion.Kind of hard to have a major concencous with only 3 or 4 people, we need nore anons.
>>82169249Damn, then I really did miss a lot off the discussion, cause reading it gave me the impression eberyone was faily on level.
>>82169274More or less the same idea, but different ways to get there.They may even be able to be fused still.
>>82169291>>82169274fusing them we could have the original stone faith of the Lapsarians be the migrated Jasentof stone faith, then have the Capri sea faith replace it and take over. missionaries still come from Jasentorf from time to time, and there's an underground of holders on of the old faith in Lapsaria
>>82168971I'm a fan of everything except for the tsar veneration. the deacon is the spiritual beacon, says so on the compass
>>82169142>Two base damage types the game is centered around>Soft Damage, typically inflicted by piercing weapons, bullets and arrows>Hard Damage, typically inflicted by Cannons, Bludgeoning Weapons and the like>Other rarer types include 'Strange', Chemical, Flame and Choke types, but are more situational and derived from either soft or hard or hit flat>Scale battles are focused around smaller armies, with monstrous units, artillery and cav>Battlefields have two 'layers' to represent land/sea positions and aerial presence>Incognito units can be set by certain armies pre-battle, and will only be revealed if the opposing army catches sight of them, by spotting or catching attacks>Ultimately primary tenants are (Damage), (Functionality) aka health, (Visibility), (Speed), (Resistance), and (Range)Example, a Durite Insurgent army is usually good (Speed), good (Range), very low (Visibility), but are usually very (Soft Damage) Focused and with lower (Functionality)By comparison, a Lapsari regiment has middling (Speed), good (Range), and higher (Visibility), and while also being (Soft Damage) Focused their helmets and 'combat supplies' Pervatin Salts provide better (Functionality) and Soft (Res.)This is where mixing units comes in with strategy, Slab Knights may have shit (Speed) but have excellent (Func.), Cav has great speed but in the age of guns is a lot more fragile, Artillery has no speed but great damage and range. Basic stuff.
>>82169337I'd go with the interpretation of it being less veneration and more religious justification over his position.Like the pope crowing the emperor of the hre didn't make people worship the emperor. Same deal here, the only difference is the Deacon crowns the Tsar with authority over the Land
>>82169389There's also the secular aspect to this, like how the Yechods have no faith but serve the Tsarina. Secular authority is a fair deal in Lapsaria.
>>82169389then i am genuinely for it as a whole. And I'm big complainy/drawfag anon
>>82169274the differences are mostly in who was originally there and who is the faith converting the masses. My way has an original stone faith in Lapsaria that got overtaken by a sea faith that originated in the capri bay when it was an independent city state. Sea faith was adopted early by the Tsar and gained traction quickly becoming the dominant religion in Lapsaria and the original stone faith is a minority religion that has been outlawed. The other suggestion is Lapsaria originally had a sea faith, and it's being slowly converted by Jasentorf missionaries, with a Tsar converting and becoming the Spiritual leader of the stone faith.Personally I prefer my idea but I'm obviously biased. My compromise was that the Stone faith that was originally present in Lapsaria was the Jasentorf stone faith spread by missionaries, and we could still have the Tsar as the Old spiritual leader of the stone faith that became a position of authority. Then later a Tsar converted to the Sea faith of the Capri, along with his family, and the faith gained fairly quick traction in Lapsaria, as they had just assimilated a city state that was similar in size to them that were already adherents.
>>82169337>>82169389>>82169402I was a dumbass and mixed the yechods and accidentaly mixed the kossoki, ignore the veneration of the tsar.It's just the good old divine right ro rule that monarchies had, the tsar isn't a god-king.
>>82169327>>82169425Problem is it still doesn't explain why the non-bargain lapsarian are stone aligned if they venerate water.
>>82169451You can beat the stone out of a man's mind, but you can't beat it out of his heart.Also this country has a salt problem worse than Chinese Opium. And the Dust. And the Industrial Steel.
>>82169402Oh yeah definitely. Hell, I'd even say that nowadays the tsar's authority is mostly secular, with only a few people minding the religious apsect. Maybe a couple centuries ago being ordained by the gods was more important, but nowadays the Tsar being the Tsar is reason enough for most people.>>82169451Since we already have (discussed) the division of religion between the Tsar being ordained by land while the Deacon represents the Sea, why njot have this division in a more general context? The church as an institution worships the sea, and while people can also worship it directly, most people privately worship the land. They do recognize the sea as an authority, but for them the land may be more important personally and thus that is what they worship
>>82169451Also why is the faith that came from a foreign empire older than a local faith, and more descentralized, than a faith from local tribals?If the sea cult being the new one is used, than the jasen part has to be cut off. But they could stay being iconoclast and just be realated to varvaria/surii customs.
>>82169514Maybe. The sea is flicke and needs to be placated, but the land is calm sort of thing. So you let the priests do yhe rites to not mess up, and you just thank the land before your meal at home.
>>82169451The state religion is SeaThe majority of stone aligned Lapsarians are also pain aligned, soldiers that have become jaded with the current reign and the Church that represents it, stone workers and those that are tasked with destroying slabs to an almost religious degree, and those that use stone for profit and their employees, like the factory workers and innovator.
>>82169545>So you let the priests do yhe rites to not mess up, and you just thank the land before your meal at home.Exactly. You respect both of them and recognize both as valid forces, but at the end of the day, when one lives away from shore, there isn't much reason to keep the sea constantly in mind.
>>82169451because the acis doesnt just measure religious affiliationThough to be fair, in the first two threads lapsaria was " The empire of stone"
>>82169566>>82169451could just be that Lapsarian pregressives tend towards stone, and the dust of progress with notable outliers, and conservatives tend towards faith, so the state church of the sea
>>82169514doesnt work with the compass. deacon is the spiritual beacon for lapsaria. level 1 canon
>>82169589come on, this is like saying when youre not in the desert why be muslim. this is a dumb argument and it directly contradicts the compass
>>82169610That also doesn't work because a bunch of progressives are also on sea.Pain is progress, not stone.>>82169623Deacon is also the one behind the bargain, so him being fish doesn't mean the religion was sea.
>>82169659>Deacon is also the one behind the bargain, so him being fish doesn't mean the religion was sea.I agree, I've been saying that from the start
>>82169659Yea, but they're exploring all avenues, where faith in Lapsaria is concentrated on the Fish side these days.
>>82169623Yes he is the spiritual beacon. Everyone recognizes the deacon's as the highest authority over the sea worship, and everyone respects his word as everyone respects the sea But the more decentralized land worship is a much leds active thing, and as such it doesn't have a spiritual leader because it doesn't need one. There are no eidespr ad rites or chants, just small thanks and silent recognition.So the Deacon is the spiritual head, he's the leader of the organized part of the religion, but there is also the less organized bits he has less Influence over
>>82169673that said, some of the first content on the religion of lapsaria do mention fishy iconography, and most of the nobles and clergy of Lapsaria tend towards fish on compass
>>82169683Actually, the deacon is the becaon of both sea and land, since if he crowns the new tsar with the authority over land, than it means he has the right to do so.It just means that since the land is calm, the church does not need to perform rites for it, where the seas demands constant worship.Think of those medieval masses where the priest is looking at the altar, away from the people, and speaking in a language the commoners don't speak.
>The Old Lapsari Jewlers>Stayed behind while most left for the Commonwealth>Patience only the dead know>Our voices will cry out again
>>82169644This is a shit comparison. The Quran isn't about worshiping the desert itself, it's about a spiritual entity with no specific placement. A better (though still shit) comparison would be christian idol worship, and surprise surprise, people worship mainly saints relevant to their situation, even if they do recognize all saints as valid
>>82169745Not to be confused with the Lapisari Jew-lers.They haven't starved to death. Yet
>>82169644>it directly contradicts the compassyou can also just drop the shitty meme template and go with what works
>>82169659stone-pain however is more associated with industry than fish pain. which would likely still be the progressives within Lapsaria, just the one's that are building machines from the dust of progress. whereas the fish-pain aligned Lapsarians are usually those working on or in the sea like seamen and divers. I will say the marine kinda throws me for a loop, he's been getting more and more stone-faith with every update
>>82169720Good point. The Deacon is the highest authority over both, but the church as an institution concerns itself mostly over the sea is a good take. That might even help create conflict between the church and the people, as the heretical Fisher King worship might have an easier time spreading through the church than through less sea bearing people
>>82169788> the marine kinda throws me for a loopI think the point is he's seen some shit that makes him resent the sea, even if that is where he works. So he'd never worship it as he knows what lies beneath the waves isn't worthy of worship, but of fear
>>82169766>The Shadow Beneath the Capital>Just an Urban Legend right?>Right?>Protects the tunnels>Feels nothing but Loss
Added cities. I only plan on labeling Regional Capitals and a few military forts.
>>82169855>When the transplant smokes too much black salt
>>82169846yo, what ethnicity in that southern part of lapsaria? for >>82166652
>>82169659>>82169788it's worth pointing out as well, while there are a lot of stone aligned Lapsarians, there very few stone-faith Lapsarians.Their use of the stone and respect for it are secular. where the majority of faith based Lapsarians are fish aligned, implying the more religiously inclined tend towards fish
>>82169869That there is Dugong country.
>>82169878Bargain anon, bargain.Making so it was always this way takes away from the setting, not add to it.
>>82169866I think you didn't place the regional capitals markers (either that or I'm blind)Also, aren't the major city markers meant to be hollow?Other than that, it looks good! Maybe a bit too regular a spread in the Kossoki plains, but that's just me.
>>82169878I agree with this>>82169904but the public faith didn't change after the bargain. the kossoki priest and the priest would not be fish aligned because of the bargain
>>82169869I think that area as a whole is weird. It's an (yet) unexplained exclave of Lapsarian. I think we should define the ethnicity only after we define why Lapsarian has this territory.Did they anenx it from a Jasentorfi province that the empire had weak hold over? Did they take it from the masovii? Did they take it from one of those other suggestions people threw around a while ago (like swamp people)?
>>82169869Yellow is Kossoki, the dark blue is Yechod >>82169904The bargain pertains to deals made with eldritch entities, the faith of Lapsaria is entirely unrelated to the creatures in the sea that can grant wishes. This was established a while ago.
>>82169944It explicity did, stone got banned and there have been a bunch of purges, for 10 years.Of course the one that are the closer to the water that are left.I think that having a religion that was sort of equal, but started pushing back one of it's part is more interesting than they were always like this but now they decided to get the free gills.
>>82169969I think that anon was asking for the exclave near masovij, not the peninsula lien thing where Yechods live
>>82169993>It explicity did,It explicitely did not. Durite opression based on faith started, but the fact that the public faith did not change - TO THE EXTENT THAT THEY STILL PERSECUTE HOOKS - was established in thread fucking 1
>>82169969Except not, because the lapsarian sea faith that we do have written is just king fisher hiding behind a screen.
>>82170025which is why it's bracketed out in the lore document.
>>82169993> stone got banned and there have been a bunch of purges, for 10 years.I think the crackdown was less on general stone aligned worship, and more on direct monolith worship.
>>82170032And is the one trying to be pushed as canon now.
>>82170052alright then, if the consensus pushes for it I'm not going to stand in its way. I'll just point out that very early canon and stuff based on it will have to change because of it.
>>82170025the idea of the fisher king in a trench coat being the sea god of Lapsaria has been pretty criticized, hence the discussion today to talk about the nature of the religion. Notable ideas include a faith that worships an anthropomorphization of the sea itself as the god of Lapsaria, which people seemed on board with.The idea is to get away from the notion that sea god/religion means worshipping the eldritch fish, which fish cults are explicitly banned in Lapsaria
>>82169869>>82169879Probably Jesentorfan, the enclave is probably not racially Lapsari except for Kossoki enclaves.
>>82169866Nice done, but in such scale marks are not quite distinguishable.Gonna make the same for ververia and southern lands tomorrow.
>>82169928>>82170246I'm not sure if it's just my monitor, but I don't have a problem distinguishing them.
>>82170270You probably just looked at them too much time. Without staring around 1 minute at map all of them look like brown squares and military fort little bigger brown squares.
>>82170270No wait, you're right, they are there. I just had to zoom in a lot for it to be distinguishable. Maybe Increase their sizes a bit?
>>82170270could definitely stand to make the icons a little bigger
>>82170319>>82170270>Maybe Increase their sizes a bit?Only for the major cities/regional centers though. I think Villages should have smaller markings to make it more clear that they're less important in a quick glance
>>82170319>>82170344I'll see what I can do. Which ones are hard to tell? The circles/squares/diamonds/larger diamonds. Is it just the two diamonds that are hard to tell, or is it others too?
>>82170369I think the diamond are the harder to tell, and the symbols for outpost and major city are way to similar considering they have similar sizes
>>82170369Reginal capital looks like major city and town looks like outpost, while Military Fort depends on background.
>>82169993stone was tolerated but discouraged before, it became outlawed post bargain. This is stuff that's been around a while
>>82170410>>82170405How's this look?
>>82170422When anon, you got to back it up.
>>82170450Capitals look much better, but other still similliar.
>>82170450Capitals are definitely better,major cities are still too similar to outposts, maybe make them (cities) bigger as well?
>>82170465>Other faiths are outlawed, now after the bargain. They have been discouraged before.Literally the first paragraph written on defining the Lapsarian faith
>>82170450Wasn't bothered with the prior but the size change definitely helps. Shit CCA you lookin kinda competent in map design tho.
>>82170527>mention ethnic groups existing>/pol/are you alright anon, how did they hurt you?
>>82170527I think this is bait, but I so see how a well intentioned (if extremely retarded) anon could Unironically post thisB- bait, keep working on it
>>82170575Yea. So far we've avoided the actual slip-ups into that stuff. Mostly on grounds that everyone has their own things going.No one is one note. And while the actual situation is pretty rough, it's an organic one.
>>82170643+ we're using ethnicity as way to describe regional cultures, not racial dynamics.
>>82170501Ohm youmean the section that it wasn't disucssed in thread, and the whole reason we are having this argument to begin with?Than I guess we got to keep the king fisher in a trenchcoat as well, since it was added together with it.Who said that the docs aren't gospel again?
>>82170527Please we haven't even maxed phrenology yet.
>>82170643>>82170575if anything this project has put non-european cultures in the spotlight by drawing on real world concepts from generally unrepresented groups in the majority of media. we're all about inclusivity in this thread>>82170682it was discussed in the thread, like 3 threads ago. the op of that bit was also the one that expanded on it in the greentext you see below it. Everything after the brackets is generally disputed, and was posted by someone else. The consensus has generally been that the state religion of lapsaria permitted other religions pre bargain and had them outlawed post bargain. These are foundational ideas that you're trying to change because you like your idea better.
>>82170746If was talked in thread 3 threads ago, show them to me.Because the concencus so far seem to be split between both ideas.I'm legitimaly searching for it.
>>82170527>CCA refuses to put happy merchant in the compass because he doesn't think it's appropriate>"Oh, but he's /pol/."
>>82170450>>82170467>>82170477>>82170504Take a look now, how's it look?
>>82170746>The consensus has generally been that the state religion of lapsaria permitted other religions pre bargain and had them outlawed post bargain.nta, but I'm up for the idea that the only outright banned/hunted religion is Monolith Worship. All other faiths are discouraged but less directly opposed. That leaves space for the Venits, for example, to do their thing without beinga ctuvely hunted by the Government (Which would be extremelly retarded given they also worship the ocean deities)
>>82170770I was wrong, it was 11 threads agoIt was one of the first Ideas in the setting
>>82170805better. though I think you missd a major city in the Mouth of the Timajor
>>82170709>The Year? 2032>The Game? Leviathan 2e>Begun, the Phrenology wars have>Falseflag shitposters have stirred /pol/ into a frenzy and created a tidal-wave effect as a misunderstanding of Phrenology mechanics of brain-scales / brain-calcification induces the fourth-crusade boogaloo>The swarm is completely side-tracked by the Yechodic Craftsbook and later culminates in the Azerbaijani Embassy incident >CCA is later arrested for tax evasion that same week and Kossoki is forced to flee for Scotland >Despite everything, the smiling Craftsman triumphs and the Craftsbook one of the most supplements released for 2e, allowing CCA to pay off his fines
>>82170813Did you not see that supressing stone is part of the bargain?It means it's new anon
>>82170809that's the thing, the venit keep it secret and don't openly worship the Auntietheir entire thing is secrecy, hence the masks.If they're not being hunted for it why bother to hide it? and if the Bargain was made with the normal gods that everyone worships, why is the Deacon's relationship to the hooks something to keep hidden, and the bargain something to keep secret. It's a better idea to have the state religion, which is fish aligned generally, and in opposition to stone worship something other than the sea entities with whom the Bargain was struck. hence my suggestion of them just worshipping an anthropomorphised sea generally, and still being opposed to the fish cults.
Is someone want to help us with making maps, I made list of required maps with priorities. I think moving from shores to deep continent is good idea.It could be nice to stick to already existing map style.
>>82170813I think what's beens discussed since is that the bargain itself didn't actually request for the suppression/hunting of the monolith worshippers, just to open the path for more people to worship the King. People interpreted that as "kill all who oppose" and ran with it
>>82170873Meanhwile, go to thread 4, and search for 82101943 and look for the replies for the replies.
>>82170902I think kyutogyro should be very low priority, and we should have something for the sunset isles with relatively high priority
>>82170873yeah the destruction of the religion is new, the discouraging of the religion was old. It was part of the old formative lore for the slab knight and slab breakers, that they were created to destroy slabs as well as the monolith.
>>82170933Than link that, not the point that is irrelevent>>82170921look here, this is what could give support for your idea
>>82170826I did, thank you.
>>82170933it's literally in the compass and has been from thread 2
>>82170643>>82170672>>82170796>Everyone is throwing themselves at the altar of egalitarianism to prove how NOT RACIST they are because of one shrieking retardIt would've almost been more respectable to double down on what he said. At least then he might've fucked off
>>82170953>>82170976meant to reply to you
>>82170890>that's the thing, the venit keep it secret and don't openly worship the Auntie>their entire thing is secrecy, hence the masks.i mean, it's prettyy obvious, even if people don't know what they worship, that they've got some religious secrets around, so if other religions were outlawed they would clearly be an active target for investigation.>If they're not being hunted for it why bother to hide it?Fish cults specifically are outlawed, not any other religions, so they would slide under the guise of niche religious followings instead of being pegged as fish cultists.> and if the Bargain was made with the normal gods that everyone worships,Not sure how you got that out of what I typed. I do believe that lapsarian religion should be separate from Fish Deities (I am for the Ocean for the Church and Land for the common folk interpretation)
>>82170976the slabs breaker/knights are also new anon.read this, this is the thread that has the argument you needI beg of you>>82170921
>>82170977At least I understood his bait. I got no idea what you're doing.
>>82171003then why have they been on the compass since before the setting had a subtitle
>>82171023How far we've come.
>>82171003>>82171023What are you even discussing at this point? I swear to god your points seem almost interchangable and I have no clue what the difference is.
>>82171023New in timeline nigga.You are trying to say it's old lore that stone worship has been hunted for a long time. I say that the whole varvaria campaign is new in timeline.I ask of proof that stone has been hunted for a long time.You give me old lor of a modern organizationI find the thread that has the discussion and arguments surporting you position, and beg you to read itYou literaly can't understand and keep repeating the same unrelated pointhere, let me help you>>82101943
Ok version 1 of the map of Lapsaria. Gonna add major roads & major seaways next and then it should mostly be done?
>>82171111Now follow the reply chain, and give me the correct counter argument before my headache kills me.
>>82171125>>82171111Lads. This is clearly going nowhere, and we've already done this sort of thing once with Jasntorf. Ease back, clarify your positions for the next thread and we present them so we can get a better view of this. If it's between two people it is gonna go nowhere and lead to little but frustration.
>>82171117> The LechteDo we gave any info on that region?
>>82171154Fair.I'm going to take a painkiller, reading 10 threads hunting past discussions has fucked my head.
>>82171154it's like a real religion already lol
>>82171154Thank you anon.By this point the discussion is pretty much unfollowable for anyone else, and this isn't really good for a collaborative setting>>82171204kek
>>82171157Not yet, no.
>>82171154Stop policing other people's conversations, this isn't reddit.
>>82171204In hindsight I'm glad I went through with head blunting with Jasentorf.We have all the time in the world and we can step back to reexamine things. We're here to make a good setting and a TTRPG, we should be sensible about this.>>82171268Brah.
>>82171221I think we could try to incorporate the sugegstion from >>82147813 >>82147828 >>82147846.Divy up that area between Freeskalon, Masovii and Lapsaria.I kow that'd involve changing political borders, and I'm sorry for pushing that to you, but from a lore standpoint, I don't see any big issues
>>82171328>>82171221Or someething like this as to not lose the border between Lapsariana nd Jasentorf, and too empahize Freeskalon being a really minot nation
>>82171117> The aemii TundraI think someone suggested calling that region Verkhovoy Timajor (Aka Timajor Riverhead). Though I do like having something related to the Aemii
>>82171415Having multiple names isn't really a problem.
>>82171290That is a fair point, we don't need this to be ready for production todaylooks like the doc editors are gonna try and boil down the main religious ideas and try this whole thing again later
>>82171372The Jasentorf/Lapsaria border isn't super important. I'll make some changes. >>82171415It's probably too wet up there to be a tundra, I'll change it.
>>82171415I'm sorry, but my hearts belongs to Perkeland.Maybe Helvetia too.
>>82171487>The Jasentorf/Lapsaria border isn't super important.True, But I'd still like to have them bordering each other, or at least nearly so> I'll change it.Thanks! Do what you think fits best
>>82171489>PerkelandIn our hearts, it shall keep being Perkeland
>>82171415I would love to see more Aemii art or fluff (not like substantial lore, but some more flavor) but they aren't tundra people. They stick to the mountains.
First: Lapsarian religion legitimizes line of Tsars. Therefore, it is given priority over other faiths and other faiths are actively discriminated against.Then: Bargain happens, one way of removing competition for the Fisher king getting children to love is the outlawing of monolith religion.Then: Things get out of hand from Durite resistance, stuff gets bloodier and harsher.
How do these roads look?
>>82171674I like all of this except for the>other faiths are actively discriminated againstpart. Discriminated? Sure, but actively implies they are actively hunted down, which would make some pieces of preestabilished lore difficult to explain. Other faiths are discouraged, but no action is taken against them (Until tha bargain, that is, when Monolith worshippers start getting hunted)
>>82171697Are these just active roads or well-build roadways? Because if itts the latter (or a mixrture of both), there should be roads to teh destroyed cities in Capri Bay, even is such roads aren't being used anymore
>>82171737My idea is there are active roads.
>>82171761Oh ok. How about having 3 road levels? One for major active roads, one for minor active roads, and one for inactive roads? They can be the same thing, but Major roads are thicker lines, minor roads are thinner lines, and inactive roads are greyed out. I think this would give a better understanding of the dynamics within the country
>>82171817I think that might get too visually cluttered.
>>82171720I don't mean to imply they are hunted down, I mean they don't get permits to build their churches, they get cracked down on if they have an anti-tsarist vibe to them or if they serve as a unifying structure for groups the Tsarina doesn't want to unify. If they've got healing priests or whatever, those may get prosecuted for murder when their patients die and such stuff. Discrimination, 19th century style.
>>82171720I imagine fish cults were probably seen as subversive and may have been hunted as a lot of them involve human sacrifice
>>82171855>>82171720oh, yea, and fish cults fall under the anti-tsarist, subversive vibe. Those were hunted as heretics and dangerous to the integrity of faith and state. This, nominally, is still the case, and due to many layers of obfuscation and secrecy, also still actually happens from time to time.
>>82171852Oh ok. I figured by "actively discrimination" you meant the governmentabctively hunted them down, but just hathem hust being heavily monitored and discriminated makes more sense. Yeah, I agree!>>82171855Oh yeah, actively cult-ish institutions could be illegal for endangering the public or such. I'm refering to (Mostly) harmless faiths that would have no reason to be illegal, though they would be discriminated4j4vd
>>82171870> due to many layers of obfuscation and secrecy, also still actually happens from time to time.I imagine the Hooks/Deacon framing some undesirables as fish-cultists and getting them arested/executed as a way to both keep up the charade and get rid of these people
Ok, that's the roads done. Now for major sea routes and I am pretty sure the map will be completely done.
>>82172307Should railroads be included on the map, or would that clutter it too much?
>>82172489Changing what's on there to railroads might be a good idea actually.
>>82172489I'd say that>(1) Major Railways are fledgling in Lapsaria>(2) Major Railways in their early stages tend to parallel existing roadways, while independent rail-lines emerge later as scaling tech improves and supply lines completely shift from old styles of transport>(3) With such a strong water network and canals, Lapsaria's rail development will be further slowedSo right now no.Lapsaria in two decades though? Probably would be deserving of its own map.But I leave it up to group consensus.
>>82172489I’d include major ones. There shouldn’t be that many. It’s mostly a direct line to the capitol, not every city connected to each other.
>>82172587there would potentially just be two, a short one in the heartland and a longer onw down to wother
>>82172307>>82172489Added important city names.
>>82172725>Westtower>Dru Ridge>Fort Sedge>Highwater>High Harbor>The HookI like the military fort names.
>>82172725The crossed-out icons for abandoned places is neat. Shouldn't Synance be on Capri Bay though? Or is it one of the crossed out places?
>>82172725Can you give us gimp(or whatever you use) file with font and all assets?
>>82172725Could the X in Destroyed be a little brighter red? It's a bit hard to see.
>>82171328Tbh i don’t particularly like your OC nations
>>82172902I posted my assets earlier in the thread. When I'm done I'll post it, but my GIMP file is super unorganized.
>>82172725I'm liking it a lot!I find it a bit weird how there are no roads to the destroyes cities, but you've explained why already.>>82172489I think railroads, due to lore reasons, are still very limited, though a map resence could help show how limited it is.>>82172902+1 to this. Maube if the files are too big for 4chan itself, you can put it in a Drive file and link it in the docs
>>82171372>>8217132818th Poland getting cucked out of a coastline even in a make believe setting.Must be a latent need of the human psyche.
>>82173029If you don't like something you're free to suggest alternatives.
>>82173029Not my nations, and other than Freeskalon (which i think by now most people accept as being something) and maybe the Volcano Monks (Which i think would fit better with the barbados thing we ave going down south) I'm not such a big fan either. But we had since space to fill and previous ideas, I thought it'd be only fair to bring them as options
>>82172560>>82172489Remember railroads are actively getting shit on and discouraged by the Oil tycoons and co. Because they’re part of Black Salt infrastructure. There really aren’t many outside the capital area, they aren’t particularity safe because of the above, and Durite terrorism has also further compounded the issue of establishing infrastructure for any rail throughout the country
>>82173076Yeah, don’t use them.
>>82173119>Durite terrorism has also further compounded the issue of establishing infrastructure for any rail throughout the countryi think that's mostly regarding contrsuction on the Durite plains (Which, to be fair, would be one of thw most important places for railways considering it's wide plains with few rivers)in most of Lapsaria, it's > getting shit on and discouraged by the Oil tycoons and co
>>82173142That's a cop out response anon.
I added the major seaways. This is a good version 1 of the map, how's it looking lads?>>82173036This is me. >>82172930Brightened it up.
Random anon here, just read through the doc and this thread and think you guys are doing pretty excellent work. I really would like to further explore the setting, which is probably the highest of components. Keep it up, I'll be monitoringMight I humbly ask about the meaning of faith/pain on the y axis?
>>82173197Thanks, the x looks better now.
>>82173203Faith is confirming to the powers that be, in this case reverance of stone and entities of fish. Pain is transformation, taking aspects of those elements and going full on 'I am sculptor and clay' with this shit. Fish oil, and stone dust.
>>82173203>Might I humbly ask about the meaning of faith/pain on the y axis?how dare you
>>82173119>>82173029I think maybe anon is right and we should gatekeep adding nations pretty tightly. What does Freeskalon add? I'm not trying to be a dick, I just am trying understand what makes it worth having, since I'm not familiar with it.Also, what's up with the edgy proposed "Barabaos" nation or w/e. Kinda redundant w/ the Sunset Isles imo.
>>82173203>Might I humbly ask about the meaning of faith/pain on the y axis?No please, not again.
>>82173249A local small buffer nation is personally something I like, something Masovii, Lapsari, and Jasentorf play proxy war inside of.
>>82173249>BarabaosI am pretty sure it was just proposed as the largest island in the Sunset Isles.
Stone/Fish doesn't make sense. Shouldn't it be Earth/Water?
>>82173249> Kinda redundant w/ the Sunset Isles imo.Which is why they're getting folded in togetehr with the Sunset Isles. > what's up with the edgy proposed "Barabaos" nationlast I checked the edge had been truned down, though I'm not sue that was reflected in the docs.> What does Freeskalon add?Besides manatee herders being a fun idea, like >>82173262 says, it can act as a sort of buffer state between the nations. Maybe it still exists because all 3 big players near it don't want any of the oteher ones to have it, and noone has had the balls (yet) to face the other 2
>>82173298Manatee Herders? Objection rescinded
>>82173249they're the dugong herders on the compass. already top level canon
>>82173249Barabaos was someone trying to make another big naval power for the Lapsarians to clash against a bit iirc, but they went way too far off the deep end and the resounding response to it was >eeeeeeehhhh no thanksAt least in that state>>82173203>>82173254We used to have it in the OP, maybe we should go back to having it in the OP
>>82173280GO BACK HENCE THY CAME TRAITOR.
>>82173280Assuming this isn't bait:We decided to have less diametric opposed axii so that it could lead to more interesting discussions. Sure, Fish/Stone has some connotations of simmilarity to Water/Earth, but it's much more evocative and gives some leeway to introduce interesting concepts.>>82173203> Might I humbly ask about the meaning of faith/pain on the y axis?This has been the subject of heavy discussion. I am one for taking their meaning at somewhat face value (Faith = belief and following higher powers, pain = suffering), but other anons have differing interpretations (Such as >>82173240, which is the most pervasive opinion, that pain is transformative and progress, while faith is stability)
>>82173249>Not trying to gatekeep the concert of nations but what does this "Belgium" add. I'm not trying to be a confederation of the Germans, but I am trying to understand what makes it worth having, since I can't speak FrenchIt's as near to an actual product of continental politics as it gets and keeps the setting from being the 'Big Three' jacking off. The world is more than just them. It provides a free territory that can be utilized for international diplomacy and commerce.
>>82173298>>82173249I think Freeskalon is the least offensive one by far - Hicksville manatee farmers is workable. The Olm and Tree religion stuff just seems like it’s unnecessary and another thing of “keep the weirdness contained” that has cropped up a lot
I am really happy that the delvers aren't discount brackish ones any more.
>>82173342>We used to have it in the OP, maybe we should go back to having it in the OPI think i took it out of the OP by semi-accident a few threads ago when I revamped it. i say Semi-accident because while I'm not against the Pain/Faith interpretations, I thought people were beginning to lose sight of the original concepts in their interpretations, but I'm not sure I did it on purpose or not
>>82173197I'm diggin it. Good shit CCA
>>82173416>The Olm and Tree religion stuff just seems like it’s unnecessaryOh yea, i agree, which is why I only included the freeskalon when suggesting the update to the Map.Those other cultures would need some real de-weirdening to be included Hell, even the desciprion of the Freeskals we have here >>82147813 still needs some major de-weirdening. The only reason it got in is because what people think of the freeskals isn't "A mysterious tribe of Manatee worshiping swamp dwellers" but "heh, hillbilly manatee farmers"
>>82173489the reason it got in is that I drew a precious man and his lover, that much is clear
>>82173402Saving this as 'Obligatory.png' Thank you sir.>>82173416>>82173489I'll say this. I was the one who posted all those nations first as ideas, and while I'm really only solid on Guthia and Freeskal, I'm trying to throw a bunch of nations out to see what sticks.I'm fine with dropping parts, that's just part of the process, but it's hard to do that when people are full fiat "no". I overweirded them because I knew they'd be changed and I wanted to give material to pick and choose from.
>>82173517Yes you did, and we are thankful for it.>>82173532> it's hard to do that when people are full fiat "no"I get how you feel. that's why I was talking more of de-weirdening than just throwing tthem away. It's nice to have several ideas to try out and discuss. The problem is the thread wobbles around a lot between "This idea is shit, never bring it up again" and "someone mentioned this one detail 53 threads ago to which noone responded so now it's canon", and we still need to find a good balance
>>82173578>we still need to find a good balanceI have long said people should just defer to my opinion
>>82173578Flexibility is key. Everything I've suggested from the start when I suggested Masovii as a name I've tried to put out under the mindset of 'this is the thread's now' and 'trying a combination of meat and bone.' Meat and bone being details in one area and thread-bareness in others. We can make things work and we can add and remove things. But it's all collaborative work. Personally, I think we need a 'canon' folder or colouring in the doc for things that are set in stone and things are up in the air.
Added a mile scale. Please nitpick, I won't make all the nitpick changes, but I need things pointed out to me. This is my first full Atlas style map, I hope it turned out well enough. Other map skills did translate to this
>>82173651>Personally, I think we need a 'canon' folder or colouring in the doc for things that are set in stone and things are up in the air.I think that'd be nice, but it would involve the whole discussion of what is canon. Going through the Docs, ideas that have more text and better structured text probably have more time invested onto them, and thus are probably more of a consensus. So everything that's rougghtly thrown together is still up for debate, everything that's well structured is "canon"
>>82173651I am going to convert the lore slush document into an actual readable PDF. Which includes editing and pruning. I don't expect folks to be super interested in copy editing.
>>82173692> spoilerI think we're getting along to editing/compiling/structuring some of the infromation in the document, so that's something. thouggh yeah, everything weill probably need an editorial pass to be comprehensible
>>82173692Well, whatever we do I just hope we can do so on amicable and set terms and keep it thread tied.Also finished compass WEN?
>>82173673Not A Nitpick (NAN) Use Kilometres
>>82173752I'm too burger for that
>>82173748We're missing the last spot, now that I'm done with the map I'll add one of the missing lads and then we'll have the race to the last spot.
>>82173748>Also finished compass WEN?I re link >>82165053>Here, I fix all problems>We take Suuri Brave, and put him in [9,9].>Ancestral Hero stays in the same place, with >>82164761 's wording.>Sunset Seaman goes in Suuri Brave place. >This way we>Fix the Ancestral Hero>Represent the cultural diversity of the Suuri mentioned here >>82164938 by having them on both sides, while they're still a FAITH based group>You >>82164434 get to have your dude put in the chart>We don't have to try and justify the Narwhals as being sorta not Fish, because that's silly.
>>82173786Any thoughts on where Synance is? As far as I can tell it's the only city that appears in the compass but not the map.
>>82173752Based non-amerifat poster
>>82173752>>82173772not using Verti like a real Lapsarian would
>>82173752This is an English language site.
>>82173748Talking about that, the religions ideas is kind of done.So go take a look or something.
>>82173852>Any thoughts on where Synance is?Great question. i was thinking it was one of the cities in Capri Bay, but the professor still works there, so it can't be. Maybe it's not a city, but a group? (I think I read that somewhere in the docs)
>>82173866BAKA, CCA might as well be a dirty Masovii Salt-miner.
>>82173673so is that a russian mile or an imperial mile?
>>82173929>>82173945>New Metric system announced in Masovii>Bizarre systems of measurement shall never replace the Tsarist Imperial measurements says officials
>>82173969>Deacon outright calls this "metric" system to be a form of heresy, and cultural pollution from backwards countries
>>82173874What lore we have for it seems to be that it was a large city on Capri bay, that while not abandoned following the Betrayal has been loosing population at a breakneck speed since then.Problem with that is the people there would need a reason to stay, and the university alone doesn't seem like enough, saying as the Synanceian Royal University seems like something that would be easier to move to a new location instead of needing to be in fish silent-hill. Maybe it's something like a hub for the cleaning squads going into the bay, with the university still around to study the fossils and ruins and weird shit getting pulled out of the bay. Could be the Synanceian Royal Academicians are a successor to the University, made up of those who were able to flee Synance before shit got too weird.
>>82173852>>82173874I can add it, I first thought it'd be on Capri, but the university is still open so I'll change something.
>>82173874Maybe it's that city on the mouth of the Caprini?Close enough to be fucked over, but far away enough that isn't ghosted.
>>82174036Maybe it's on the periphery of Capri Bay? Far enough that it didn't get too fucked up but close enough that it is still dangerous.
>>82174036Wait, let's consider >>82174026's sugestion. The idea that the university is in Capri Bay, and only barely making it along is cool. Maybe have it be far from the previous capital (ie, in of the three place in pic related), so taht while thre are still effects from the Capri Bay disaster, they are more mild and a city could continue existing, though with weird shit happening every once in a frequently
>>82174059I like this idea. The closer you get to the core of the 'promise' the more fucked things get.Like, on the whole bay area you've got spooky shit, but only when you get near the ruins does that spooky shit get strong enough to drown you.
>>82174059>>82174074>>82174083the hivemind strikes again.
And finally done. What I did was:>move the Suuri brave to the right side, made him a Mountain Suuri. >added the Tarcan Missionary>added the Barbaros Sailor (made him not edgy, instead a rum merchant)
>>82174074>>82174083I'll make that change, sounds cool.
NO 13x13WE ARE DONEFOCUS ON CITY DESCRIPTIONS NOW
>>82174126remember to adjust road/water ways to accomodate this new city
>>8217415413x13, hahaha no.11x11x11
>>82174231What would the 3rd axis be?
>>82174237Dualist vs Monoist.
>>82174246Dualist vs Funist
>>82174154I'm not disagreeing. Just next compass is gonna end up being Josen or Masovii. Maybe the isles.I'm just running numbers games with the War-Game proto. Reminds me of how much I love this era of warfare with Lapsarian grenadiers. By the way, military unit ideas on the docket for the next thread?
>>82174126>>82174174I got it, no worries.
>>82174231If we did a 5x5x5 it would actually be really close to the amount of things we have now
>>82174281What is The Haunt?
>>82174295Where freedom died.
>>82174295Nearest outpost to the Old Capital (and to the center of the Capri Bay shenanigans)
>>82174281so what do we have so far for Piske?
>>82174278Durite Conscripts>numerous, but unreliable>given inferior flintlock muskets>able to march long distances, deadly on the charge when properly motivated, can seemingly loot mid-battle without missing a beat>not deployed in the Durit Steppes, usually on the Northern or Western Front
>>82174295It used to be called Whitemist...
>The Monx Stonecracker>Publicly provided to troops on the Durite Steppes to kill Mountain Kelyaho>really give to them to shoot Statue Ascendants>packs enough of a punch to shatter the wrist if unbraced and crack the head off of one of the statues>you generally need to break off limbs to get it to stop moving
>>82174329>>82174281cause if nothing much I have a few ideas>founded by Lapsarians as a fishing village>was basically ignored by the government due to it's far afield location and minuscule population>suddenly became extremely important to them while they were planning the Durite campaign as it was the nearest established settlement to the front with an advantageous location at the mouth of the Nem>over the next few months Piske was declared the regional capital and the population ballooned rapidly, with the influx of military personnel, Lapsarian bureaucrats, Railway industrialists, Maritime Merchants, and their workers all rushed to Piske to establish the necessary lines of logistics for the upcoming campaign, along with all the architects, and workmen to get it constructed. >old shanty town of fisherfolk is suddenly surrounded by a boom town dedicated to getting supplies and men from greater Lapsaria across the Nem.>fisherfolk less than pleased, they just wanted to fish, and now all the fish are disappearing as the mouth of the Nemijski is cluttered with newly built ports and ships hauling war supplies.
>>82174682I like this pretty much all of this, especially the idea of a small fishing village blowing up into a boomtown almost overnight thanks to the invasion. Only problem is I remember part of the lore of the Nemijski being that the river isn't fished by the locals, though now I can't remember if that was supposed to be about the Durites in particular or just everybody.
>>82174682I like this. Small town that rapidly grew mostly due to Military necessities, locals not very pleased.Though I think there should be someting about the town being close to the Masovii, and the nearest mainland settlement near the Lapsarian exclave south of the Nimjiski.Maybe it was a hotspot for travalers from/too Masovii, and now the "tourism"/ acommodation for traveller thing they had going on is being hutted by the military occupying houses
>>82174871the Durites have taboos about the Nemijski.the Lapsarians were just far away, so I figure relatively recently, like 50 years before the Durite campaign, some Lapsarian fishermen decided to settle down there.
>>82174918Ah, that sounds good then.
>>82174281This >>82174914 raises one good point: What are the main roads/accesses to/from other countries?
>>82174953I can add roads for that as well. I did one out of the western border, I'll add one down the coast and towards Masovii that fades out.
>>82174914>>82174953could be that most travel is done by sea
>>82175038I also assume that's the case, but masovikj is a bit landlocked, so there would have to be some land-based routes as well
>>82175038Problem with that, at least when it comes to the Masovii is that they're pretty much landlocked, so we need at least one road heading east. I could see most Lapsarian trade with Jesentrof being done over sea though.
>>82175093>I could see most Lapsarian trade with Jesentrof being done over sea though.Especially since Freeskalon is mostly swamp, so wading through there isn't really a good experience
When we hit page 9 I'll make a new thread again, but will be using the map rather than the Compass for the OP image.
>>82175206But tthe compass is finaly complete! Maybe one last time?Just kiding, do what you think feels best.
>>82171647Sisters in Iron sounds like they are prisoners, just call them ironclad sisterhood.
>>82171697>population bigger than modern australia.Wtf, bro there maybe at max 5 to 6 million people there without modern amenities and tech.
>>82175477Australia is a country made up primarily of desert with a few major cities hugging the eastern coast. Lapsaria consists of multiple breadbaskets that have been conquered or annexed one after the other.
>>82175477Considering Russia in 1800 had an estimated 35,005,000, I think it fits. Lapsaria may be smaller tthan Russia, but a greater part of it is usable land.
>>82174281Messed around with contrast and saturation to help readability. >>82175477It's an industrialized society, I'm basing it off of France's population in 1850. It's a great deal larger than France, but a smaller percentage of its land is usable.
>>82175697Ehh, I prefered the version with less contrast. Or maybe something in between, pending towards the less-contrasted version
>>82175778Maybe it just looks a bit off to me after I got used to the map's regular colors, but i still think the contrast is too high.I tried messing around a bit and found something pretty good, pic related is the comparisson.If you're using Gimp, it's Contrast +30, then Saturation -30 and Lightness +10
so I'm working on some art for the white narwhal, it is WIP in the extreme, but I've kinda hit a wall with itI'm thinking a few Suuri hunters being thrown from the shattered canoe but idk