Lately I've been thinking of Solarpunk, and how it utterly fails to establish an actual punk dynamic, at least in the classic sense. Traditional writeups of Solarpunk describe it as punk in the sense of the setting itself being rebellious against the modern standards of the world and against pollutant megaindustries.But this still leaves the setting by itself as a vaguely defined utopian society. So my idea is, how do we make Solarpunk Punk?We need to take away the utopianism, the perfect balance in society, and look for the consequences of this hypothetical environment first plus high tech setting.Some possibilities I have thought of include>Rampant unemployment as economic activity is limited and high technology allows for ecofriendly automation>Far beneath the skyscraper-canopies, dangerous slums of the unoccupied resent the system and the elite on their high horses>Ecological doctrines become dogma to some, and radical anti-human earth liberation cults arise causing terrorismAny other ideas or takes on an actually punk Solarpunk setting? The aesthetic and world itself has potential but it's difficult to tell worthy adventures in a perfect world.
your first mistake is thinking -punk subgenres have anything to do with actual punksthe -punk prefix just means society has been changed in an extreme manner by the primary technology or field of whatever the specific genre is>solarpunksociety has undergone extreme change due to major advancement in solar power or clean power in general>cyberpunksociety has undergone extreme change due to major advancements in/the introduction of cyberware>biopunk, steampunk, dieselpunkyou get the ideaI'll even give you the description from wikipedia>Solarpunk is an art movement that envisions how the future might look if humanity succeeded in solving major contemporary challenges with an emphasis on sustainability problems such as climate change and pollution.it's an "eh" idea with mediocre results, another "-punk" setting with zero defining works or notable influence, that most people will go their entire lives without hearing ofhowbout>due to the advancements and availability of clean and efficient power, third world countries start gaining ground in the global economy, many of them holding ideas considered "medieval" by the UN/Global "In-Charge" Guys of the setting; the current world powers are terrified of their new bedfellows and a second cold war (with proxy conflicts included) starts between a "warsaw pact" of powerful third world "not quite shitholes anymore" and NATO>guerrilla militias intent on creating their own communities pop up all over the world (including America), and start trying to seize territory around wind turbine or solar panel fields, and even hydroelectric dams. in response to this, clean power companies hire private security firms and paramilitary conflicts begin
>>78328758My American mind immediately goes to the struggle of centralization and regulation versus dispersion and individualism. Perhaps there are miles and miles of red tape needed to build absolutely anything because it has to be approved to "fit into the utopian image of society," which leaves people not important enough to get to the front of the line waiting lifetimes for approval. This has in turn spawned an underground market for unregistered energy sources and storage, devices, etc. Some of which are of higher quality than even the officially sanctioned ones, but some of which might be deficient in a dangerous way.
>>78329284You are only half right about -punk.You are wrong because cyberpunk is extremely punk. The eponymous cyberpunks in Snow Crash and whatnot were rebels through and through.You are right because steampunk then used the "punk" name and other aesthetics ran with that, but it is still a term with origins that are very punk.
>>78328758>So my idea is, how do we make Solarpunk Punk?it's still a capitalist shithole where the lives of the poor mean nothing and rich mercantile interests rule the roost, it just happens to be the case that everything is bright and verdant and when you look up from the crumbling ruins of your neglected slum there isn't any smog choking the sky
>>78329494Just another reason among many why steampunk is the absolute worst -punk
>>78328758>Any other ideas or takes on an actually punk Solarpunk setting? The aesthetic and world itself has potential but it's difficult to tell worthy adventures in a perfect world.Perfection is a state of mind. You could make Solarpunk a Gone with the Wind sort of story with genetically modified slaves and telepathic matriarchs who fight for the attention of duelist-type men.
>>78328758Because of the glorification of untamed nature wild animals and diseases are allowed to roam freely. Clean and safe living requires a position as one of the few elite in the hanging gardens.For poor people the solarpunk city is no different than surviving as a caveman in the neolithic.
>>78331394Oooh, I like this one. As an extension I would add>The elite in their drive to preserve nature, has sent different protection agencies as well as armed droids into the wild as protectors>Any barbarian group/tribe that tries to settle down and build a new future must fend off from the attacks of the preservation droids and the EPA raidersWith this adventure can have different levels. In the green skyscrapers we might see more intrigue and political conflict between the elites, and adventure centered on this. On the slums under the skyscrapers, gangs and trafficking of illegal pollutant tech, and in the outskirts a low tech wilderness where the more tech and organization you try to use, the more dangerous enemies you will attract.
>>78329284I think there's a difference between steam/cyberpunk and all its derivatives. Both steampunk and cyberpunk came from fiction. This is why they are actually "punk"-- the writers who wrote about this were principally concerned with things like economic inequality and its effects on society.The people who came up with stuff like solarpunk, biopunk, etc, were artists, not writers. They are making it purely for aesthetic reasons, not as an actual fictional world. They don't give a rat's ass if it's "punk" or not. All they care about is how it looks.
>>78329628>>78329494I feel like Steampunk can be really punk, given the god-awful living situation of people at the height of the Industrial Revolution. There'd be plenty of rebellious types, worked to the bone, taking their one day off in ages sitting in smoky bars, covered in soot, dreaming of walking into the factory with a lever action and just going ham. Grab some elements from later or earlier decades for some additional spice; throw in a prohibition on alcohol, and you'll get a whole seedy underbelly of young folk ready to throw their low-value lives away to mop the fop formed into rum-runners and mobster gangs, a bloody war underneath a society with a singleminded fascination of the newest source of power.
>>78328758>>78331394I feel like this is missing the point. Solarpunk in my mind at least, should not have the same societal imbalances as old societies. With the energy problem solved you can expect a more programmed and efficient society. Basically a post apocalyptic Star Trek. >>78329412This is more into the right direction.
>>78331965I would say that also "-punk" is about life being a cheap commodity.
>>78331718I think warrior robots go against the esthetic. Can't they be bio-engineered nature guardians or something?>>78332607>With the energy problem solved you can expect a more programmed and efficient society.I don't think that naturally follows at all.
>>78328758Solarpunk is nothing. It is the wish for something while actively attempting to avoid what little there is. You don't look at what people have made -- you dismiss what is there as "not solarpunk" because it does not fit your ideal image in your mind.Solarpunk is nothing.
>>78332832Well I feel that bioengineering goes directly against the point of preserving nature and the environment, since it is basically an aberration against nature. Whereas a very sofisticated preserver robot is more akin to a tool, a tool utilized by the elite to build and preserve, that can be applied and retrieved as needed. They would need to be stylized as to look "natural" and blend in. So robots that camouflage as part of the forests, I feel is the direction for these preservation units>>78332607I feel in terms of economics energy is not everything. There is considerations of room and space. Under the premise we have a society obsessed with preservation, and that while some form of symbiosis might be found in their cities, vast parts of the ecosystem wouldnt naturally adapt. In this sense, I feel a natural consequence of preservation taken to the extreme is the expulsion; most of the land surface would be forced into unhabited (at least supposed to) natural wilderness with no human society allowed. People would be forced inside the cities, that have a limited size and room, and while the sun shines bright on the top of the naturopolis, almost no light reaches the slums far under the canopies. In real life solar energy plants have the issue of space; they require flooding vast land areas to provide the same energy as a thermal plant does, destroying its habitat. This goes against preservation, so the energy sources would be limited to the ones held by the 1% on top of the city, with direct access to sunlight. Little energy would be found as one descends down, at least legal sources
I feel like Nausicaa is kinda punk solarpunk.
>>78332607>With the energy problem solved you can expect a more programmed and efficient society. Basically a post apocalyptic Star Trek.So basically a utopia? That's kind of stupid as a setting in general. It also makes no sense.
>>78329284Nah OP is correct and the "punk" part which is supposed to be there is just ignored by a lot of people adopting the name. The punk is not just society has been changed in an extreme manner, it's that the player focus is on rebellious degraded types.
>>78333251pretentious and un-insightful>>78329494that's sort of interesting. cool insight, thanks man :)>>78331965I didn't think of this angle either, also significant to think about.>>78333657that's generally in rpg settings though. OP is talking about the genre itself.since we're on the topic of rebels, what about bands of "rebels" or bandits attacking the richer cities in search of their medicines or more advanced biotechnology? sort of like in the Colombian civil war, or Elysium
>>78333617And do not forget that humanity is more than capable of creating its own problems.Solar punk is not about unavoidable scarcity, it's about ideology spinning out of control.The hippies are finally in charge and it's not pretty.
>>78333936I don't quite get whether the MC was supposed to be an android or an eunuch.
>>78334045Heavily cyborged human, who whose implants were subsidized, to ensure that they couldn't reproduce.
>>78328758Just steal the pretty "cities covered in greenery" aesthetics for whatever setting you prefer.
>>78334369Wait, solar roads?
>>78328758You wanna know how to do solarpunk right? Take it to its conclusion,everything is local, everything is grown on site, power generation is local. Trade is dead, the roads rotted, society outside the oasis is breaking down because there is no need to maintain it when you can do everything by yourself. City states well from the corpse of nations, a hundred miles begins to feel a long distance again, enclaves hide in the mountains and woods preaching their local madness. In the large cities, communication lines are maintained but once you step into the dark...
>>78334161Most people would keep their gender identity after such an operation, so the attempted irony still feels poorly set up.
>>78334017Unreadable /pol/ shit.
>>78328758The Windup Girl by Paolo Bacigalupi is, in my opinion, the handbook for any theoretical Solarpunk.The setting is post-oil-collapse; there are no more fossil fuels, or at least not enough to be worth basing an entire society on.The only people who have access to non-renewable, non-sustainable tech and equipment are the serious heavy hitters. Corporations looking to capitalize on the new demands, governments that are trying to stay on top of a world without tanks and planes, and crime lords who've found an exciting new niche in society.The gap between the haves and the have-nots is unfathomably bigger. Say what you will about our unsustainable, plant burning society of now, but it's a society that puts an iPhone in every hand and a car under every ass. What does a global economy look like when international travel has been reset to sailing ships? Who still has access to coffee and sugar, and what do 'normal' people make-do with instead?Finally, the cutting edge tech is at a horrifying 90-degree angle to where we are now. Without steel and plastic, where are our best and brightest investing their efforts now? Gene-tailoring? Just how deep does the rabbithole go once our bodies are the last resource we have left in abundance?As it is, whenever I see anyone talking about Solarpunk, either here or afar, they're bright eyed techo-humanists who don't want to have to admit that, for all it's sins, our modern world provides us such an immeasurable baseline of luxury that there exist virtually no humans left who do not benefit from durable goods made with exhaustible materials.
In a general context cyberpunk stories follow the stories of the people who are crushed under the changed society.Criminals living on the edge of the society created by the megacorps that sort of thing.Because cyberpunk doesn't present the world as something desirable. It is explicitly undesirable. Things go wrong. Outcomes are never rosy.So lets look at "solarpunk" and what its based around.Green tech. Environmentalism. So lets focus on the downsides of that, the shit that makes it undesirable. Solar? The horrible conditions in the third world mines that provide the rare earth elements for it. And in a solarpunk world demand will be huge so slave labour lets say. Along with industrial pollution from solar panel factories. A small chunk of the world is just a polluted hellscape where all this heavy industry to make solar panels and other greentech takes place. The people living there are chronically sick slaves who according to the government don't exist. They cover it up, passing off the idea that the whole place is just a toxic waste dump for old world shit they can't do anything about.So follow their story. The story of a bunch of smugglers sneaking medicine and weapons into the toxzone. Of slaves trying to organise a rebellion against their masters. A group of people in the outside world who know the truth and are trying to make it known to everyone but are targeted by government death squads for it.A tyrannical government that imposes itself on the minutia of your life in the quest to "reduce your carbon footprint"But with the elites getting a pass on this of course. You vill eat ze bugs. You vill own nothing. You vill be happy.
Alia Gee's Suncatcher: Seven Days in the Sky >post-peak-oil airships with solar-heated hot air lifting gas and sails for propulsion and airship piracy via WW1-style biplanes made with bamboo frameworks and biodiesel engines
>>78329284>your first mistake is thinking -punk subgenres have anything to do with actual punksOr, exist for that matter.
>>78335073Such a soulless image.
>>78335203The aesthetic is pretty schizophrenic.
>>78334419>Solar roads overshadowed by tree canopyYes, they spent ZERO thought on this.It is the most shallow and dumb -punk to exist.They really want to pollute the world with as much toxic Cadmium as possible.
>>78335283I feel like the 'punk''encapsulates the modern #RESISTANCE feeling>I have the big media, international banks, megacorps, and deep state on my side>I AM THE RESISTANCE!
>>78335384Got to fill those landfills>USA - 8000 blades are retired annually>EU - 4000 blades are retired annually>this number is increasing>these will not breakdown and will be entombed forever
>>78328758If -punk is the economic and social problems of a society cranked up to 11 for effect then solarpunk should reflect the economic and social problems of the late 2010s/early 2020s, right?We're not so far removed from cyberpunk's time that there aren't similarities - obviously corporations are still a big part of our society - but let's shy away from megacorps for now for the sake of establishing solarpunk as its own thing. Social Media should be involved - omnipresent surveillance, but entered into willingly. In fact, I might make that the theme. The dystopian -punk of solar punk comes not from the top-down, but from the ground-up. Solarpunk can be great, if you have the right opinions, say the right things, support the right causes. The second you slip up though, your life is over - and not because of some shadowy board of directors marking you for death, but because your neighbors, coworkers, even friends and family decide you're persona non grata.
>>78334796I like this response better than most of the others here; everyone else is quibbling over the definition of punk, talking about starry eyed visions of Musk utopias, or listing Republican grievances from the 1970s. I think corporations die in the absence of an infinitely expanding market. I think if the "power" of a society comes from biological management (gene manipulation, cultivation, passive environmental sources of clean energy) you'll see a highly managed society. I dont think this or my following idea are reflective of where society is going; punk genres have a wish fulfillment and style element to them that imagines more fantastical worlds than will occur.My interpretation would be a three tier system of a lower class of hunter gatherer types, genetically modified for comfort without manufactured goods tasked with managing country sized farm ecosystems that produce useful biological goods. A small middle managerial class, severely controlled or self regulated. Finally a neo-aristocracy of genetically modified ubermench that control and benefit from these processes.
>>78335772Tech companies in general I think.
>>78335772>but let's shy away from megacorps for now for the sake of establishing solarpunk as its own thingSo it won't reflect the economic and social problems of the late 2010s/early 2020s>Social Media should be involvedMegacorps turning their customers into their products and their draconic censorship/influence of politics.>entered into willinglySo it won't reflect the economic and social problems of the late 2010s/early 2020s
>>78335805Punk is based on society usually with a unique twist, what you're discussing is more of a fantasy setting.
>>78329412I like this approach, it seems both realistic and gives the setting nuance without leaning too hard into the overdone "brainwashing surveillance society" trope (of course there could be alludings to that, but I think these aspects should be balanced out with the more pleasant aspects to create a more richer and complex setting)
>>78332607Why should solving energy scarcity solve social stratification? If anything, removing the energy industries, and heavily regulating any primary resource extraction will increase stratification, since these are the industries that developing economies and unskilled workers are most likely to get ahead in. Regulating in general hurts people trying to get ahead, as small businesses in any industry can't afford the permits and inspections required to be approved. Red tape is defacto elitism. I'm not even a Libertarian and I certainly don't think we should be lifting environmental regulations IRL, but it's pretty plainly obvious that a typical Solarpunk depiction is either going to have a massive unemployed underclass, either surviving at the State's discretion through UBI or eking out a parasitic existence as a separate society altogether, OR they "solved" the issue by erasing most of the population somehow.
>>78336108Parasitic underclass/UBI combo is probably best.
>>78336108>OR they "solved" the issue by erasing most of the population somehow.Could make for an interesting twist but also has the potential to come across as groan-worthy
>>78328758Blue Submarine No. 6 meets Horizon Zero Dawn. The world world was ingulfed in a massive war when a weapon is released that causes nature to become hyper verdent and bio-mechanical creatures roam the land propagating the new nature.
>>78336170The "we killed most of society to enable our utopia!" Twist has been done quite a lot. I'm just saying if you're building a Solarpunk setting you should at least address how your society handles the fact they've told about 60-80% of people they can't work, while at the same time specifically eschewing the profitability that might enable you to keep them alive
>>78335335Take your meds.
>>78335437>these will not breakdown and will be entombed foreverI mean they are just aluminum right? Whats the big deal
>>78336230Yeah, I think a good way of doing it would be to have the exodus not be a thing that was 100% planned by some shadowy organization but instead a mix of scheming, natural disaster and happenstance. A Covid-19 scenario turned up to 11, essentially.
>>78334624Read my post you niggers and tell me what you think about it. I thought it was pretty good.
>>78328758Cyberpunk is popular because the real life culture is in a place where consumers that drive the genre ironically don’t like corporations, capitalism, and traditional ideals like nationalism, loyalty, conformity, etc. The irony here is the corporations sell us media, books, games, shows and movies about taking down corporations without fear from us. Solarpunk will never take off any time soon because the “rebels” in the setting are American Conservative-types who are currently out of favor. If you want to do a Solarpunk campaign where the players are rebels/punks you will have to include things those types complain about. >”book burnings”/censorship of any ideas that go against the orthodoxy>Harassment by the mob, job loss, being socially cancelled by the mob for unorthodox ideas and opinions>Unemployment being high due to the economy being righteously and intentionally sacrificed for the environment>Rampant inflation of basic resources— example: food prices and electricity skyrocketing because of environmental legislation governing agriculture and energy>Rural people being sacrificed for UrbanitesAnd then you can get into the more fantastical, non-real aspects. >Maybe the population is being culled to protect the environment and be more sustainable— It’s completely open and acknowledged, but you get cancelled or executed for Crimes Against the Environment for speaking out>Onions Green>”Hey, I noticed your name and face was posted on the government’s website for using more than your daily allotment of electricity. Better shape up. You’re hurting the Environment.”
>>78336416OK.The death of trade inhibits the use of High Technology with short life spans like Solar Panels and Wind Turbines.You really want a post-apocalyptic eco-fantasy and not Solar-punk
>>78328758>>78329284>>78329412>>78331394>>78336478As long as you have human dignity, prosperity, and decency sacrificed for the vague benefit of The Environment, then you should be good. Show the debasement of humans and your players will instantly hate and rebel against the status quo.
>>78336478That's why I've never seen any solarpunk that's actually "punk." It's always been showcased as a straight Utopia to which we should aspire and wish we could live in with pangs in our chests while listening to lo-fi Nintendo bgm beats and sipping cockroach milk.Any attempt to actually make solarpunk a deconstruction of eco-futurism the same way that cyberpunk deconstructed right-libertarian techno-futurism will be immediately sniffed out and lambasted by the people who idealize that eco-future and get butthurt by the satire and the corporations that wish to appease them as consumers and employees.
>>78336570>Any attempt to actually make solarpunk a deconstruction of eco-futurism the same way that cyberpunk deconstructed right-libertarian techno-futurism will be immediately sniffed out and lambasted by the people who idealize that eco-future and get butthurt by the satire and the corporations that wish to appease them as consumers and employees./thread
>>78329284>>78333793what are those screenshots from
>>78336370Carbon fiber and resin, which makes them toxic and can't be recycled.
>>78336542>High Technology>Wind TurbinesThe solar panels I get, but that is what makes it a futuristic setting, they probably 3D print on some organic based resin, or you could even work off some kinda of bioenginneered plant polymer.You don't need Vacuum chambers and high quality silicon, Hell worst case you go full Helios one and just get some shiny metal.
>>78336733OK, they grow magic plants, I assumed it was based on realism.>WHAT DO YOU MEAN WE HAVE TO MINE THE ALUMINIUM/COPPER?!
>>78336755> they grow magic plantsNot magic plants that generate electrically, but plants that produce novel compounds. Or did you think all that greenery was for heirloom tomatoes. You act as if this is some hot take, as if plants don't already produce proteins that can capture and use sunlight.
>>78336809What you want is a Utopian fantasy setting not a Solarpunk one.
Most of the concepts used by this thread have a lot of conceptual overlap with the "peaceful" end of classic dystopian fiction (Giver, Time Machine, BNW). Where humanity has made a shitty knockoff of the garden of eden, our ever-sustainable animal state. So, maybe the problem is that a normal thing has been mistaken for unique.
>>78336818It's not Utopian because the modern day society has collapsed. It's like you are saying that the hunter gatherer tribes are Utopian because they are independent and produce what they need. It's just that but with a higher tech level. Really it's more of a cultural regression that has come about due to our technological progression.
>>78336867>society has collapsed>City states still exist>only trade has stopped>these cities can grow magic plants to solve all problems and not have to use high technologyAgain, you want fantasy not punk
>>78336910I take it back, it may be some type of Biopunk but again at that point it's not Solarpunk
>>78328758>need strip mines to aquire rare earth metals for photovoltaics, destroying the environment>need large areas of flat land for solar panels free from plant and animal life, destroying the ecosystem>waste products and worn out parts are toxic and leak into water and soil, destroying arable land>power supply is unreliable and inefficient, unable to power the infrastructure required to fix the damage it causes>energy companies have the support of a misinformed public who sincerely believe their nightmarish world would be worse without solar powerNothing about this sounds utopian in the slightest. Anyone serious about environmentally friendly energy will champion geothermal, hydroelectric and nuclear. Only complete psychopaths who hate all that is good and green in this world would be in favor of solar, wind or burning live children.
>>78336910>society has collapsed>City states still existYes the failure of the modern nation state is what I would consider a collapse of society, you realize that means anyplace not in your citystate or "Tribe" if you prefer, zone is a foreign and potentially hostile land. And of course with a increase of competitors comes an increase in warfare. >Only trade has stopped,The death of trade lead to the death of the nation state, leads to the death of infrastructure leads to the death of mass movement. Have fun speeding down overgrown highways and fording across rivers. >Magic PlantsWhy is the plants so big of an issue with you, you realize plants naturally turn sunlight into energy right? >>78336959It's not biopunk because that focuses much more on body horror and personal modification. This is just having slightly advanced near future control of genetics.
>>78336561>>78336570OK, these two ideas intertwine well in my experience. I was a furry convention (shut up) once and got presented with a pamphlet for a writing contest structured on a shared "solarpunk" setting. One of the advertising prompts laid out the basics of the new world powered by nature-tech and green machines of the kind that would give Miyazaki diabetes. Among the first-person narration passages was something like, "We still see the ruins of human civilization. Overgrown steel and concrete towers. Sunken cities. Hell, some of them are still out there hiding and dreaming of taking the world they destroyed back, but without claws? Without fangs? Without scales or fur? Good luck!"And I handed the brochure back to the guy who shared it with me and told him, "OK kind of interesting, but it's supposed to be an anthro/furry setting and you've made the humans the singularly most interesting characters. I want to be a human in this setting and know what they're going through rather than be a badger guy or something."He stared back with an autistic dead fish stare for a couple of moments and went, "I guess that's fine, but why dude? They ruined the world and it's supposed to be, like, karma that they're not in control anymore. There's an AWESOME and bright future world to explore that doesn't involve them besides the ruins."For a promoter of the premise and the prompts, he really seemed to wrestle with the subtle point I was making that there wasn't anything "punk" or dystopian about this setting except for the surviving humans, which he didn't expect anybody to give a fuck about as anything more than a joke or a hackneyed moral admonition.
>>78337133>furry convention>AutismWhy am I not surprised.
Car Wars. World had a blight that wiped out most grain crops, then a nuclear war, and then US had a civil war which also went nuclear. Cars are almost all electric. Cities are effectively independent fortress towns either powered by solar or nuclear, "gas stations" have massive solar arrays to recharge cars. Most inter-city/continental shipping is done by massive dirigibles powered by solar; because fuel is too expensive for planes and trains aren't viable due to a breakdown of society. I liked the game but vehicle combat was very slow to resolve so it died out. Either way, solar panels everywhere + dystopian setting.
>>78336478>>78328758>>78329284>>78336570>“You had an illegal Reproductive Incident. You do not have a Child License. Please report immediately to your local Planned Parenthood for your Government buyback post-birth abortion. Failure to comply will result in a fine, jail time, and, of course, the confiscation of your illegal contraband.”>“Hm. How did this even happen? Your parents didn’t pay for you to have reproductive privileges and licensing and opt-in non-sterilization.”>”It seems your whole family are enemies of the environment. You are hurting us all by being such a strain on our shared resources and I have forwarded it your family’s profile for review by The Party’s Environmental Friendship Department.”
>>78337870Yeah, that's easy to come up with, but our point is that it's not something that will take off because people in positions of power over the flow of information will try to suppress and slander it to protect their agendas that such a work could be used to pick apart.
>>78335291>Yes, they spent ZERO thought on this.About as much as the people who made a real solar road
>>78332366There's plenty of punk Steampunk (the Dishonored games spring to mind), people just refuse to call it Steampunk because they want to reduce Steampunk to cogfoppery as they continue to fight a decade-old internet blood war that they won long ago.
>>78338031Or, equally possible, people aren't interested in it. The Turner Diaries was never a nationwide bestseller either, even in regions where people in positions of power had every reason to explicitly amplify its message.
Atompunk >>>>>>> solarpunk>clean energy that actually works>scares the shit out of people>self-sufficiency>literally rad
>>78338649Until the great Cheeki Breekiing occurs
>>78328758-punk doesn't mean rebellion by the people, it means societal upset by the technology. That's why Bioshock isn't Dieselpunk, even though it's about being a rebel in an art-deco world.Solarpunk (and to a lesser extent, Atompunk) is just a rare positive upset. If you want a conflict in Solarpunk, then have your players be corporate bootlickers cracking down on patent infringement. It will be entertaining and more challenging than being a cyber-hippy with an aquaponic backyard and a second-hand solar-bat-combo.
>>78336108>>either surviving at the State's discretion through UBI or eking out a parasitic existence as a separate society altogetherSurviving at the state's discretion means that any change by the state will provoke a life-or-death response, which threatens the state as the UBI population increases and military enrollment crashes. The state is surviving at the UBI mob's discretion. Glory to the workers!
>>78332366I think ACTUAL punk steampunk will be the next big trend. People are already clamoring for the simple agrian lifestyle and recognizing how awful the industrial revolution was.
>>78338865UBI is simply not extended to anti-state actors and their associates. If only a small minority of people are exempted, and the State advertises that a report of anti-state behaviour resulting in actionable intelligence might result in privileges or even being bumped to UBI premium, then the system controls itself.Remember, the UBI has to be low enough that people's expectations and ability to save for the the future are negligible, but high enough that they otherwise live comfortable, if luxury low, lives. This can of course be scaled back over time. Expect and be ready for the occasional outburst and riot. Develop media that can direct anger and feelings of hopelessness in harmless directions. Specific departments, people, or nebulous movements with ill defined goals are both good.Intervene in situations where senses of identity, outside approved consumable identities, grow. Specifically you want to isolate people from feeling like they belong in a localized group. Culture, where it cannot be commodified, should be downplayed, especially when it relates to shared history. Neighborhoods, blocks, cities, regions, states, these should be made impersonal such that a DEEP shared sense of identity cannot take hold. Shallow shared identity, is the opposite, and encouraged. If you can put on a hat or consume a specific product, and that makes you a part of the identity, that is ideal.
>>78338373Dishonored isnt Steampunk. It has some improbable clockwork machinery, but is otherwise just a high-fantasy setting power by magic fuel.
>>78329284What irks me is you change it to -tech and everything sounds better and makes more sense. I hate americans.
>>78338649The only thing we need is an energy efficient way to produce muons. Then clean and safe fusion energy is easy to achieve.We have been able to win energy from fusion since the fifties. But the muons that are necessary to do so require more energy to get than can be won, because they're obtained by blasting atoms in a particle accelerator.
>>78328758>So my idea is, how do we make Solarpunk Punk?Solarpunk would require a very powerful state to enforce its ideals onto the people. Even if we get people to live in Star Trek-like levels of opulence, we'd need either a massive underclass to support them or sufficient automation and the underclass to support the infrastructure based on how automated the cobalt mines are. Many freedoms will be taken away from you if they are deemed to be bad for the environment. Deviation from the parameters set by the state will result in severe sanctioning, either by the state or by your peers. So depending on which way you lean solarpunk isn't green futurism: it's ecofascism.
>>78328758solarpunk technology allows people to build self-sufficient communities. Small city can build and operate all their infrastructure using 3d printers and cheap energy. this reduces the need for central government.
>>78336389Not bad, but what's stopping any one city state from polluting and gaining an advantage by doing so? Also, you can't make everything locally. Not everywhere has ores, for example.
>>78342795Either have a One World Order or through ethnic cleansings, depending on which way you swing.
>>78338636>people aren't interested in itEven if they are, efforts would be made to starve it of access to consumers and recognition. That's the real problem.>The Turner Diaries was never a nationwide bestseller either, even in regions where people in positions of power had every reason to explicitly amplify its messageFirstly, real curious that your go-to comparison to an actually critical and "punk" solarpunk work would be Racist Harry Potter and secondly when I talk about people in power, I'm not talking about mayors and governors. I mean corporate chairs, media moguls and their journalists, the heads of NGOs and special interest groups, academics, entertainment studio heads, and the other movers and shakers in manufacturing (and gatekeeping) culture.