>>76520719
>remaking a thread that couldn’t even hit or get close to 100 posts in 24 hours
>>76520735
shamelessly self bumping without adding any actual content
sad.

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>>76520719
>Making continuation for a 59 reply thread ?
I'll give you one:
>Halloweenies
Bunch of guys who bought faulty halloween masks which cannot be removed without causing major, potentially lethal harm. They are, in addition of doing regular gang crime, looking for the designer of that batch of masks. Not to kill him or anything, they want to know how to replicate the error.

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>>76520719
The problem with our idea of cyberpunk is that we never thought people would learn to love corporatism and we never expected that corporatism would evolve and change its aesthetic. There was a stark barrier between work and home life in the 90s and early 2000s. Even Spongebob, a children's cartoon, parodies this with the one fish driving to work meme.

Google, Facebook, and Silicon Valley changed all of that.

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>>76520719
The Brand Loyalists

> Nicknamed "The Soys" by anti-corporation groups, The Loyalists are corporate consumers who not only consume the product, but worship it and integrate their brand(s) of choice into their very identity. It began in the early 2010s, with consumers getting tattoos sporting brand loyalty, or stockpiling hoards of meaningless junk just for a chance to throw their money towards their favourite companies. Now, they arm themselves with corporate-branded weapons and technology, and fight tooth and nail in the streets against rebels and naysayers who would speak sacrilege about their corporate overlords, in hopes that the brands will provide them with further materialist goods and media with which to fill the voids in their lives.
> Having die-hard loyalists like this is a company's wet dream; corporations will actively encourage cells of Brand Loyalists by providing them with early access to products, giving them promotion on their social medias and inviting them to corporate events, to further secure their loyalty (and their wallets). And in return, they get cannon fodder ready to defend their brand integrity at a moments notice. And not only do they work for free, they actively surrender all their wealth to the companies in return for mass-produced trinkets.

Better political discussion here than on /lol/ anymore

>>76521065
Wasn't that a Goosebumps book?

>>76521510
I like it.
I think with how useful they are as pay pig consumers it might be more worthwhile to keep them alive and higher cheap street gangs or discount mercs to do actual violence.

>>76524018
Was thinking ,pre about that Halloween sequel that didn't have Michael Myers in it (season of the witch), but that can still apply too

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>>76521149
>The problem with our idea of cyberpunk is that we never thought people would learn to love corporatism and we never expected that corporatism would evolve and change its aesthetic

>>76525046
One of the greatest illusions of the modern century is that of San Francisco's technocrat elite. How is it that no one wonders why almost all social justice bullshit that never actually improves material conditions end up originating from San Francisco, Seattle, and Los Angeles; the three cities where the most draconian and dystopian tech companies all exist.

>>76521065
>Not to kill him or anything, they want to know how to replicate the error.
Damn, I'm spooked.

>tfw we got all the negatives of cyberpunk society but instead of positives like cool aesthetics, interesting music and cool technology (even if for the rich) we get post-modern corpotrash, ukulele music/degenerate pop and diversity

>>76525046
tbf those aren't the overlords.

>>76525235
90s cyberpunk
>corporations are going to grow infinitely more powerful despite the will of the people

2020 cyberpunk
>corporations are growing infinitely more powerful because of the will of the people

>>76525235
At least trannies are still fairly easy to tell apart from girls

>>76521510
This one sounds pretty likely

>>76520735
True. Half of the tech came to life. So did half of the coruption and grasp of corps over politics. Prosthetics is catching up fast and so does virtual reality. Also the world building makes no sense today. In the 80s people thought that Japan could take over all markets with their tech. That's why there is this heavy nipponphile influence in all of cyberpunk (Nuyen, top corps Japanese, language a melt of English and Japanese etc.) Nowadays we all know a future dystopia would be shaped by Russia or China, maybe the US, but never Japan or Europe.

It's still relevant as a kind of "alternate reality near future dystopia" but we desperately need more post-cyberpunk, nanopunk or the likes. Shit like Altered Carbon that just goes 200 years further into the future and shows some REAL tech control over society. I also thought that the take on off-world born belters in The Expanse brought some of the feelings I long for in cyberpunk.

>>76525324
is it REALLY dead if all you have to do is change Japanese to Chinese?

>>76525343
Japs are wacky and fun, Chinese are boring and dirty.

>>76525343
You would have to do more. Chinesify everything and amp up the tech advances. Otherwise you just get, well, China? You should google some of the shit that's going down over there. Straight up 1933-1945 Germany reborn methodology. Uighurs, thousands of them, forced into labor as slaves. Ultra poor and super rich living side by side. One force controlling everything. Reads like some 1970-80s dystopian novel.

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>>76525324
We already explained you several times that post-cyberpunk already exists and that it is NOT "cyberpunk based on the 2020s"

The idea is just to portray a future that takes place after the cyberpunk future. That idea started around 1989 and it never resulted in something cohesive.

If you want to start a scifi movement where the premise is "the dystopian corporate future of the 2020s" go for it but don't call it "post-cyberpunk". Come up with a name for it.

>>76525324
>I also thought that the take on off-world born belters in The Expanse brought some of the feelings I long for in cyberpunk.
How? Space travel means the end of cyberpunk by letting people escape. The expense of shipping to space is arguably a benefit, it gives the initial colonists a fantastic advantage when they have to manufacture all their essentials locally from the start as a cheaper alternative to transporting them from somewhere the corporatocracy can boycott and prevents the corperatists from conveniently importing strikebreakers to suppress the initial colonists' individual bargaining power or soldiers to maintain monopoly of force.
>Point is, what's gonna happen when the billionaires who funded the asteroid mining colony's development finally arrive after the plebeians they sent beforehand to actually build it had completed their work only to be met with 'we nationalized our infrastructure in the name of our newly formed politically independent government so you own nothing, if you don't accept this, we'll go on strike and cut off earth's supply of asteroidical ore and if you turn violent, we've got the technologies for moving around large space rocks and can't help noticing that you live at the bottom of a gravity well'.

>>76525658
Cut it with the marxist-leninist wet dream, lad. It wouldn't happen and you know it.

>>76525658
Aaaand then a couple years down the line Mars ends up in the same situation as every socialist state in a cyberpunk setting: taken over by the corporations and the free market economy, but with a one-party puppet state.

>>76525324
>Russia
what

Cyberpunk discourse fills me with sadness, just like everything else these days

The recent 2077 game really highlighted to me out outdated the genre is now. It need a refresh.

The scary future isn't some an-cap fantasy, it's an global authoritarian one.

>>76525658
>escape
You'd be even more under a corporate/state boot since unless you're Elon Musk you're not homesteading Mars by yourself, you're working for some organization that controls the tech that makes up every aspect of your life and can kill you whenever it wants, with a 3 minute signal delay of course, by just turning off the very air you breathe and there's no leaving the situation unless they want you to.

>>76526089
>implying there's a difference

>>76526089
Why try to turn cyberpunk into something it isn't?

Just come up with a new scifi concept that's based on Current Year.

Preferably one that doesn't have "punk" in its name.

>>76525265
this guy gets it

>>76525046

Dick Jones would literally murder me and I'd still rather work under him than a woman.

>>76526030
It's just an aesthetic at this point as with steampunk.

>>76526245
How. Here on earth, globalism means any worker has to compete with every single other worker and the closest thing to socialist politics have been subverted to support this so the bargaining position of any given worker is basically nil. Meanwhile on mars where shipping anything, let alone something which needs the expensive life-support supporting infrastructure of a worker is obscenely expensive and lightspeed lag makes teleoperation impractical, worker bargaining position is actually pretty good.

>>76527802
not for long

>>76526639
What was it before?
I never really got cyberpunk, but it seems to me the themes either got stale, or i just never got them.

>>76528037
Technology scary. Too much technology bad. Technological transhumanism bad. Technology dangerous in the long run. Fear technology, but do not abandon it, because in the true horror story, you can't.

And also, American anti-corporate 70s era protest messaging, which doesn't make sense anymore because all the hippies are multi-millionaires.

>>76528037
The core theme of cyberpunk, regardless of focus and specific themes, tends to shake out as "high tech, low life." Technology has exploded and greatly advanced, but society hasn't gotten any better, possibly regressed, even. The rich got richer, the poor got poorer, and people are getting mad about the current state of affairs.

>>76528288
Thanks.
It seems it was the themes that got stale or at least aren't hot topics today.

>>76528400
they're still very relevant, but they aren't new

>>76525658
>Space travel means the end of cyberpunk by letting people escape.
Lmaaaaooo you're going to work unpaid overtime because the risk that you'll be let go and kicked out of the mars base into the literally uninhabitable martian wasteland is too high.

Yeah 2077 made me realize that maybe the whole thing is just a postcard from the past. Its not interesting anymore and seems to have been boiled down to a generic aesthetic. Like edwardian literature or something.
I was already feeling like this with the shadowrun tabletop
This stuff isn't interesting anymore

>>76527802
>worker bargaining position is actually pretty good
Until the corp realizes it's easier and cheaper for the air supply to "malfunction" and then they ship in a new crew who works for less money to replace you, complete with the not-so-subtle warning of "keep obeying or there might be another malfunction"

>>76521065
Neat.

I only ever play a katana weeb Solo

>>76525658
What makes you think that an asteroid mine needs anything but a few VERY well paid engineers and some robots? Space isn't a blue collar environment. Like, at best you'll end up with a scenario where a few countries and corps fuck off to space and lob rocks at anyone who tries to challenge their oligopoly.

>>76526089
>>76526255
>Burgerpunk
Cyberpunk, but...
>No cool gadgets or cybernetics.
>Instead of private armies, the corps just bribed preexisting goverments to obey them and hijacked their armies.
>The antiestablishment punks have been replaced by hordes of morons who love corporate Big Brother, so long as He tweets the occasional rainbow flag version of His company logo.

>>76528704
>then they ship in a new crew
This is really fucking expensive.

>>76525658
>what's gonna happen?

Let me answer you with rap. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0gRAvY2FPM

>>76527802

He's a tankie and thinks that the corpos can just turn the air off on a colony and some engineer there won't notice it within a week and fix it so the override doesn't work.

>>76527802
They are not going to put anyone on this hypothetical outpost with those leanings. Any worker is going to be very carefully screened to be low risk and unlikely to buck authority. And they will know if any of their workers have this anti-corporate sentiment through the same data collecting techniques we see used today. On top of that their families will be back on earth living in corporate housing right next to mission control.

>>76530309
Less expensive than your whole colony going independent.
But that's hard power. Corps'll be using more soft power. As another anon mentioned, they won't be sending people with those sentiments. If they develop them, it'll be little things that go wrong to make you uncomfortable and thankful to the corp for fixing them. A couple shipments are light on luxuries but, look! We fixed the scheduling issue. Your spacenet connection has been spotty, but we value our workers, so we figured out how to boost it on our end. Here's some neat tech that makes your lives easier but it's dependent on updates from our end since it's so new and experimental.
You'll never get a real worker resistance going because you're surrounded by people who specifically aren't the type to think that way and are actively being kept comfortable enough they won't be swayed away from that position.

You really need to look around. Corporations aren't powerful because they're violent or because they're actively evil. They're powerful because millions of people love them and their products. They actively sign up for a listening device in every pocket and control of what they can and can't read or see because it's convenient and makes their lives easier. This isn't the Industrial Revolution anymore. Corporate power is all about how nice you can make your paypigs lives.

And the funniest part? It'll actively lead to a better standard of living than most alternatives. Because they have to carefully balance paying enough to keep them comfortable and profits, no one is really starving. Because they need to keep innovating new distractions R&D investment has never been higher, even in more pure disciplines. Because of the need for more and cheaper resources, they're both industrializing poorer nations, educating their people enough to work for them, both of which foreign aid has never achieved at this scale and investing into space and exploration again.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u0x_tAg7Rk

>>76532943
>Because they need to keep innovating
Why? If they're a global monopoly, they'll have no competition and therefore no motive to rock the boat of the system under which they rule.

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>>76521510

>>76535339
People don't understand that megacorps are not supposed to be 'capitalism bad'.
They're deeply intertwined with the state and are basically feudal powers.
If they're criticisms of capitalism, it's about what it can turn into, not what it is intrinsically.

>>76525937
Hes an asshurt liberal

The corporate communism China has been practicing lately would be cool in the setting. They could be the most powerful but self isolating authoritarian government. With their cooperation backed by the huge monolithic chinese banks. They could have pulled a currency switcheroo and devalued the rest of the nations on earth's currency. They could be the most powerful but just happy to sell the rest of the world their junk and keep them out of china. Maybe something like the only functional space port. The west still has large corporations but they squabble and bicker with each other too much to stand up to china. And china is not interested in invasion..they just want to sell their shit for whatever metals the west can bring them.

>>76525658
>Space travel means the end of cyberpunk by letting people escape.
One of the most formative and quintessential cyberpunk movies has a climatic speech that specifically highlights space combat. Try again.

>>76536227
I was toying with a cyberpunk setting based in Africa after Chinese corporations set up shop. China itself is distracted with a Second Cold War with the West and ceded considerable autonomy to the corps so long as they keep supplying the motherland and strangle any nascent American or European influence. The hyper competitive, corrupt Chinese corporate culture ignited several corp wars on the continent, resulting in a glut of teched-out cyberwarriors and rebuilt veterans looking for work as mercs or forming a new criminal underclass. African governments struggle to maintain or even regain control of their own countries from the megacorps that uplifted them in the usual Chinese economic devil's bargain. Native African culture is under covert extermination in favor of corporate nationalism (or sometimes hijacked for that same purpose). Africa is now a place unlike anywhere else in the civilized world; the kind of ancap hypercapitalist dystopia where cyberpunks from all over the world can converge and flourish, fighting the system, selling out as corporate lackeys, or carving out their own metropolitan fiefdoms as crime lords.

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>>76525283
That's what you think

>>76536765
The issue is they still look like fake women.

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>>76526333
The real overlords are still pretty shit

>>76529224
>No aesthetic Japanese corps
>instead you have bland American corps that haven been bought out by Chinese

>>76536869
Shit, a good deal of women look like fake women.

>>76536765
Those faces still look distinctly male even under those pounds of makeup. And if there was a full body shot you could tell immediately

>>76536616
Exactly. As soon as people can leave earth, they'd fight to be politically free.

>>76537210
Incel
>>76537270
Simp

>>76535512
Russia is becoming kinda insular( their own versions of SM, Paypal, and the internet. I don't see them sharing tech, and honestly what great technological marvels have they released since the '90s? not many. Japan is good at refining technology not innovation in itself, china ahh maybe but it's more manufacturing and pirating/ stealing tech again nothing fantastic has come out of China. The EU and USA probably still have monopolies on innovation. Look just make your Cyberpunk setting whatever. i'm basing mine on Korean stuff so

>>76520719
>All the old punk aesthethic, is now worn by boring corporate drones
>You can't go anywhere without finding someone with piercings, colored hair or anarchist shirt
>The stereotypical Cyberpunk gangs look like bland posers rather than dangerous angry youths
Since punk is not that edgy or intimidating; youth gangs now ape the ''shooter'' aesthethic with bowl cuts and trench coats

>>76536869
>>76537270
Ha jokes on you guys this is just two random chavettes I found on the internet. Cis as they come just ugly and trying to compensate with make up.

>>76529224
So it's not punk at all

Find a more appropriate name

>>76520719
>That tweet
Holy fucking shit that hits way too close to home.

>>76525235
>>76525277
>>76525046
Fucking hell, stop blackpilling me guys. Is this level of blackpilling how corporate overlords recruit for their private armies? Because I'd totally work for a 90s style evil megacorp now.

>>76520719
>Men have sexbots
>Women prefer genetically engineered vat-grown dogs
In the grimdarkness of the future there is only dogpill

>>76537744
>Implying men can't have genetically engineered vat-grown "dogs" of their own
Don't make me say it.

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The “heroes”
A group of ex-military/ex corporate hit squad members who attempt to do good. But due to only knowing how to kill people they basically look at every problem like a target and shoot at it. This is a double edged sword for corporations that try to take advantage of their straight forward problem solving as if the “heroes” suspect they are out to do something malicious they gang will just paint the offices red. Highly effective, very dumb

>>76525122
Yeah, as much as the idiot who made the picture probably thinks he's saying something about being terrorized by women with brown skin and/or purple hair, at the end of the day most of those women are constantly sexually harassed and /or assaulted by the trust fund baby douchebros who run the tech world like they run the rest of the corporate world.

>>76537909
Any social justice or progressive talk from corporate types are a marketing smokescreen meant to increase their appeal or throw off the guilt-sniffers.

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>>76537935
Reminds me of yesterday's episode of China Uncensored. You might know that the Uighurs in China are for a large part being literally enslaved by the Chinese government, forced to pick cotton like it's the 19th century in the Deep South. Now there's a government effort to come with a bill that would penalize companies using resources with ties to slavery (it doesn't specifically mention China by name, but it's clear that it's a reaction against China). There are some companies lobbying against that bill, including Nike. The same Nike that supports Black Lives Matter is also an ardent supporter and enabler of cotton picking slavery.

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>>76538031
I am not surprised and yet infuriated.

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>>76537909
>sexually harassed and /or assaulted
Funny how that "assault" is never reported and ends with these women achieving middle management or higher positions and/or appearing in movies. It's exchanging sex for favors, something women have done since literally the beginning of human evolution. It doesn't become assault because she regrets it afterwards.
>B-But what if she loses her job?!
Listen: if I had to choose between losing my job and being pounded in the ass by some fat Jew, I'd pick losing my job.

These alleged victims are if anything part of the problem, save for the handful who actually go to the fucking police instead of waiting a decade and only calling it out once it becomes politically convenient to do so. The only people who have an excuse for not instantly filing a police report are children, and the male ones can't even be raped by law but you seem unconcerned about that because it destroys your narrative.

>>76537413
I mean, this was true already

>>76535339
They're not a global monopoly. They have to compete with each other. If Supertech comes out with a better rocket booster than Stagnantech then they lose potential profits. They might not compete directly in the same field either, but they can't fall too far behind in any field, else they'll be replaced by a smaller supercorp.

>>76537618
And my issue was that they still looked like they are barbies. Scratch that, Barbie has more personality.

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>>76537744
>>76537782
Another anon made the point that nekomimi people could be inhuman enough to not count as slaves. The rich breed them for the fuck, the corporations take the kids and have them work in the mines or ship them off-world to help the colonization proccess of Mars if you want to go even further, people with enough nekomimi-transplated organs would become non-human in the eyes of the law, allowing regular people to be turned into slave-beasts

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>>76538937
As long as I can de facto marry one, it's all good.

>>76538443
This. 99% of metoo allegations are bullshit used for career advancement. Look at what happened with Chris Avellone, for example. The woman who accused him did so over a sexual dm he sent her 6 years ago. 6 YEARS AGO.

Conveniently, when he was removed from the project, she took his place as lead writer.

>>76537308
It was a fight between corporations for resources, dumbass.

>>76537393
>The EU and USA probably still have monopolies on innovation
>The EU
I say this as a European myself: we may release a few nifty apps once in a while, but in terms of high tech we're hopelessly behind. We have no equivalent to Silicon Valley or Shenzen and the odds of one arising in Europe are as small as the odds of that retarded "Eurovegas" initiative succeeding in Spain (did everyone forget Monaco already exists? Why did even need "Las Vegas but in Europe lol"?). Monsieur Macaroni's attempts to make Paris the start-up capital of Europe also literally went up in flames with the Yellow Vest protests.

High tech innovation is an arms race between America and China now. The Poos in the Loo have better odds of becoming the third wheel in the long term than Europe.

>>76539345
>that retarded "Eurovegas" initiative
I'm American so unsurprisingly have never heard of this. Details?

>>76539578
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurovegas
Most Europeans haven't heard of it either and it's fucking stupid.

>>76539345
The quickest way for Europe to catch-up is to ditch the EU. You say that you guys aren't in the running, but the European Union has been buttfucked by China so hard that they're starting to exhale cum. If the individual countries of Europe were able to make their own terms, they would have better odds, but as of now they're being worn like an oven mitt by Winnie the Flu.

>>76539767
>If the individual countries of Europe were able to make their own terms
Yeah, that's working out great for Britain innit?

>>76539829
Not him, but the obvious difference is that Britain has been shut out of trading with the Eurozone.

>>76539829
No, no this all part of a master plan
>As nationalists and pro-EU factions destabilize nations, Macron will eventually go too far and France will start party rocking again.
>Revolutionary government immediately resolves its differences between factions, the communists shake hands with the fascists as they decide that the only thing that matters is avenging Napoleon
>La Grande Alliance Contre les Bâtards Anglais, composed of most of the former EU and other countries "persuaded" to join
And so history is set back on its correct path

>>76539873
They haven't. In fact there are negotiations ongoing to keep Britain in the free trade area right now which the Brits are themselves hamstringing because they don't understand that there's no such thing as "British fish".

>>76539900
Last time c*mmunists were in power they tore down statues of Napoleon because they were a "permanent insult to the vanquished" or whatever. It's literally the same shit as BLM pulling down statues of national heroes because they once said the N-word.

>>76539947
The entire Brexit gloom and doom scenario was based on the EU exiling Britain from continental trading. If Britain has actually managed to bend Brussels into accepting it as a free trade area that's pretty damn impressive.

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>>76540046
>If Britain has actually managed to bend Brussels into accepting it as a free trade area
You... know nothing about the EU's free trade area, right?

>>76540119
Please enlighten me. America is dealing with enough as is, so we don't focus much on what's going on in Europe.

>>76539829
I didn't say shit about Britain. I meant ALL OF EUROPE needs to back the fuck out. As it stands, the EU has too much power. Britain has less power over its borders than France, and somehow Germany has more power over French borders than France. It's like the US without States Rights.

If you really want, a good precedure would be to get back together and hash out a new EU that doesn't fuck you boys over.

>>76540233
So, the original trade-focused version of the EU that got turned into a wannabe federal government?

>>76540152
If brexit wants to have free trade without custom checks, they will need to have their standards be the same as the EU. Otherwise they could just export non-EU conforming products over the borders and there'd be no customs to check on it.
However, that would mean conforming to rules they no longer have a vote on. That's the opposite of gaining sovereignty like the voters said they wanted.
The gloom and doom scenario is britain and EU having to set up custom checks on their borders. Which would seriously damage many companies that have grown intertwined with each other over the history of the EU, delaying the movements of their products and supplies by many days and completely screwing up their business model. That's bad for both parties.
So the EU doesn't need its arm twisted to include britain into its zone. It's britain that's hesitant to take that deal, because it looks bad politically.

>>76540233
>somehow Germany has more power over French borders than France
so this is the tabloid reality

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>>76540152
Basically the Free Trade Area is greater than the EU itself and it's all countries in Europe that have agreed on barrier free trade, which also means that they agree to conform to EU laws that govern these things (including Conformité Européenne, you've probably seen pic related on some consumer electronics. It more or less means that they conform to the EU's safety standards and now China is slapping it on their own products, claiming it stands for "Chinese Export", so they can bamboozle people into buying their sometimes literally cancerous products under the illusion that they're safe). Because the EU is all about free trade, it's in their interests to keep this zone as large as possible, either by expanding the number of EU member states or by including countries in the Free Trade Area. If you read between the lines, you've probably noticed that the non-EU members of the Free Trade Area (Switzerland [constitutional neutrality] and Norway [currently has a "frozen" application]) have agreed to obey legislation they don't vote on.

Now that Britain is leaving both the EU and many elements in Britain want the UK to remain in the FTA. Others want to break all ties. This leads to very awkward and retarded compromises, like that one time where Britain wanted to join the FTA under a special agreement where it could take all disputes with the EU to a court of arbitration they themselves appointed. It would mean that the EU obeys all laws of the FTA, except the ones it doesn't feel like obeying. Naturally it was rejected.

>>76540233
>and somehow Germany has more power over French borders than France
Not really. During the "refugee" crisis there was actually a quarrel between France and Italy because the French told frostbitten migrants to just walk back to Italy. And did you forget how Hungary built a fence a few kilometers inward, leaving a gap just large enough for the migrants to enter Austria without entering Hungarian territory?

>>76540304
So how does that refute my point that Britain's independence is fucked because of the EU situation which, logically, would not exist if the EU broke up into individual countries that set their own standards and work out independent trade deals?

>>76540349
I do not know about that argument.
It's just about the statement about 'Britain has actually managed to bend Brussels into accepting it as a free trade area'.
Brussels doesn't need convincing.

>>76540370
Fair enough.

>>76537618
>chavettes
thats just cheating man

>>76540323
>and now China is slapping it on their own products, claiming it stands for "Chinese Export", so they can bamboozle people into buying their sometimes literally cancerous products under the illusion that they're safe
Classic China.

>>76540323
>And did you forget how Hungary built a fence a few kilometers inward, leaving a gap just large enough for the migrants to enter Austria without entering Hungarian territory?
I haven't even heard about it, and I admit that I may have exageratted a tad. But my point still stands. The EU is now more trouble thant it's worth, and everybody would benefit from its dissasembly, even if it were to be reinstated with new representaives after. You all deserve better.

>>76540556
I get the idea of a federalized Europe is kind of nice, but the electoral system seems too indirect when it comes to Brussels itself.

>>76540556
I wonder how things would be different if the EU was more like the Organization of American States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_American_States

>>76540556
Europe's free trade has been a rising tide lifting all boats deal.
Its single currency has caused some problems with net importers not being able to depreciate, but its net effect for each country has been positive due to the ease of trade.
Debtor countries have been able to score very favorable loans by virtue of being in the monetary union (via roundabout financial market ways, rich countries like germany and holland kind of help pay or insure greece's debts due to them sharing the euro). If creditors even smell the possibility of those countries leaving the worth of those bonds is going to plummet, which would seriously damage the governments' ability to pay for basic things. To put it bluntly, they have gotten used to a first world lifestyle that they would not be able to afford if they weren't part of the union.
Even the countries contributing more than their fair share end up getting more out of the union than they get out of it. The ease of international trade allows for extreme comparative advantage in EU firms, making products and services cheaper, and allowing products and services to exist that otherwise wouldn't.

The way to solve the EU's one-way capital market flow is not to break it up, it's to introduce a fiscal union. That way all the downsides from being a monetary union disappear.
But before that option can even be considered, the european parliament should earn more of a reputation of being the voice of the people.

>>76540775
>up getting more out of the union than they get out of it
*than they put in

>>76540797
The EU is a facade which helps France, Germany and - although in a much smaller scale - Italy's governments to pump money to their corporations which on the other hand finance the elections - just like in the USA.

>>76540775
>But before that option can even be considered, the european parliament should earn more of a reputation of being the voice of the people.
That might be a no-win scenario. Europe is made out of countries that have been warring with each other for most of their existence. Politicians electing politicians muffles the voice of the actual electorate, but at the same time helps smooth over opposing national interests which threaten the Union's stability.

>>76540775
You're right, but there's a big problem here: a fiscal union would effectively mean a single EU ministry of finance and would give the EU they ability to levy taxes. Taxation and raising an army are the two privileges of a state. And guess what proposal Macron has vocally been a proponent of...

The solution to this problem would be to damn near end national sovereignty, it would mean integration into a union that will always by default have a democratic deficit if only because there is no demos, no European nation. There is nothing uniting the peoples of Europe except maybe their shared Christian values, but that's the one thing the EU deliberately de-emphasizes.

>>76540775
>the solution to EU control is more EU control

>>76535496
>it's about what it can turn into
Capitalism was basically invented by the Dutch East India Company, which was a state monopoly.Whatever you think capitalism is has probably never existed.

>>76537818
Funny you should post this with a New Vegas protag, questlines half the time being solved through speech checks.

>>76539947
Columbus and Confederate generals are not national heroes

>>76540910
Good. The Carolingian Empire breaking up was a mistake.

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>>76541706

>>76541810
You're using that word wrong. I'd be coping if I previously believed they were, or if the statues were not being torn down. Neither are true, so I;'m just stating opinion. The irony of this response being a cope to a misuse of the word cope is not lost on me.

Furthermore, it'll be a cold day in hell before I recognize an It*lian as a national anything.

>>76541706
It is a true tragedy that Abe Lincoln cucked out and replaced Hannibal Hamlin with Andrew Johnson. We could've have a truly great Reconstruction period with Hannibal in charge.

>>76541955
Goddamn carpetbaggers bringing elephants into Savannah

>>76541958
Listen, I think America would be a better place now if the Republicans at the time had simply barred any Confederate from ever serving in any public office again, hanged a few of the head traitors, and a few other measures.

>>76526251

Uh yea there’s massive differences dude.

The cyberpunk ancap world has sword-wielding independent hackers delivering pizzas with heavily armed black market drones for Kongbucks on the side.

The cyberpunk world is ultra-fractionated. The real future will just be one massive amazon fulfillment center

>>76541992
Ever hear of Albion's Seed? The book hypothesizes that there are four cultures dominant in the US:

East Anglia to Massachusetts
The Exodus of the English Puritans (Pilgrims and Puritans influenced the Northeastern United States' corporate and educational culture)[4]
The South of England to Virginia
The Cavaliers and Indentured Servants (Gentry influenced the Southern United States' plantation culture)[5]
North Midlands to the Delaware Valley
The Friends' Migration (Quakers influenced the Middle Atlantic and Midwestern United States' industrial culture)[6]
Borderlands to the Backcountry
The Flight from North Britain (Scotch-Irish and border English influenced the Western United States' ranch culture and the Southern United States' common agrarian culture)[7]

Which means we can trace all our woes back to the fucking Royalists.

>>76537744
Guys, stop being so sexy.

>>76539345
China is not an innovation competitor, they're an intellectual parasite. They're dangerous because they weaken us, not because they can compete.

>>76541597
>invented

Concept of private ownership and trade is way older than that and even the term "capital" is very old. Modern concept of capitalism is closer to the 19th century.

>>76541706
Neither are black abolitionists and people who helped to end slavery, apparently.

>>76539345
>The Poos in the Loo have better odds of becoming the third wheel in the long term than Europe.

World Power 2020!

>>76538031
Doesn't surprise me in the least. Corporations will always pretend to be pro anything helpful to their brand image until it's not.

>>76538031
And then all the companies flock to China thinking they're gonna make mad bank, only to get screwed over by the CCP, their capital extracted, and kicked out. People forget that places where there's no rules protecting the little also don't have any rules protecting the big guy, you can only try and suck up to them as long as you can.

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>>76537709
>Fucking hell, stop blackpilling me guys. Is this level of blackpilling how corporate overlords recruit for their private armies? Because I'd totally work for a 90s style evil megacorp now.
Look at Elon Musk's supporters. There's no fundamental difference between him and any other bloated plutocrat, but he's got a fanclub since he's willing to play along with the aesthetics.

>>76538443
based

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>>76530301
>in the grim darkness of the near future
>criminals commit crimes with blackpower weapons that are essentially untraceable
Fund it.

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>>76530301
>>76546356
>still too high-tech

>>76541597
The VOC greatly benefited its host country. It's time is what they now call the golden age.
Cyberpunk megacorps are not like that. They're just legal shells for a mafia.

>>76543593
Musk's success is dependent on his hype.
He keeps stock prices high using media publicity. That's what allows him to raise capital for his projects.

>>76530309
>>76532943

>>76539345

Tech industry in Europe is weird. You have countries like Sweden which has a grassroot start-up culture. In other countries like France, the tech industry is dominated by large and old companies like Amadeus. Plus some of the largest so called tech companies are contracting/consulting companies.

>>76539767
Dude EU was created to oppose the US. If the countries were individuals, each would be taken over by the US. It is a core idea of pan-Europeanism. 'Russia wants to conquer it, Americans wants to buy it'. That is why De Gaulle signed Élysée Treaty with Germany. France has long been virulently anti-US. Hell, they kinda had a proxy war in 1st Congo War.

>>76547196
>France has long been virulently anti-US.

I too would be pissed if I thought I was hot shit but had to ask my girlfriend's boyfriend to get me out of a jam more than once. Poor Frencies, forever a side to the main dish, the Burger.

>>76546430
>Da joos, one of the most expelled, prosecuted and hated ethnicities after gypsies and moors, want this to happen.
>Not corrupt goverments to repress their population or capitalists autocrats to sell to those corrupt goverments
>Comunist china is full of joos

>>76547254
muh coastal elites

>>76521510
Where gonna have a terrorist grouo led by a leader who is going basically the equap parts keemstar, ninja, and Timothy McVeigh.

>>76547196
>EU was created to oppose the US
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/1356047/Euro-federalists-financed-by-US-spy-chiefs.html
EU federalism has long been financed by the US though. Let's not forget that Obama expressed a desire to see Turkey join the EU because it would strategically benefit the US to further incorporate Turkey it its network of de facto clients.

>>76547224
>Poor Frencies, forever a side to the main dish, the Burger.
When you put it like that, the French have managed to kill more Americans than anyone else before or since.

>>76530301
>>76546356
>>76546430
The FBI has repeatedly attempted to infiltrate the Society for Creative Anachronism. It’s one of the largest organizations of people who could genuinely go completely off the grid if shit hit the fan. None of this doomsday prepper wannabe bullshit. The world goes pear-shaped, all the networks go down and SCA people will go “huh, that’ll make it slightly less convenient to organize the next con, might have to get Doug to teach me about his carrier pigeons,” and go back to doing the things they were doing anyway.

>>76537634
Nah, fuck anything actually being "punk" those losers fight for the fucking establishment and have since the 90s

>>76548444
>The FBI has repeatedly attempted to infiltrate the Society for Creative Anachronism
But why?

>>76540965

>There is nothing uniting the peoples of Europe except maybe their shared Christian values, but that's the one thing the EU deliberately de-emphasizes.

The one thing that united the EU at conception was that the nations had all seen two consecutive massive wars to top off centuries of constant murderfucking one another and collectively went "no, time for this shit to end, we're actually going to try to get on".
Nobody in this thread has experienced anything close to the sheer mind-blasting horror that got the EU together, and it's not a coincidence that Brexit is happening as the people who lived through WW2 are all dying or decrepit.
I remember being about 8 years old and watching someone play Civilisation 2, and I couldn't understand why the guy wasn't happy to just attack all the countries around him and turn the game into one massive fight. The guy could have explained the economic and diplomatic reasons why that was a terrible idea and waste of a save, but he was kind enough to save the game and let me run it into the ground for him before he reloaded and played on.
Brexiteers are like me when I was eight, because they've no perspective whatsoever on how things used to be. We just haven't been bombed or invaded recently enough, so the UK doesn't remember. The central EU countries remember though, because they're still clearing the unexploded ordnance.

>>76548732
>it's not a coincidence that Brexit is happening as the people who lived through WW2 are all dying or decrepit.
The stereotype is that older people were mostly pro Brexit (because they remember not being part of EU). Is that wrong?

>>76548789

By now if you're in your early 70s, you weren't even born during WW2.
Anyone who was 20 by 1945 is now 95 years old.
Anyone who went through the war who was middle-aged with a family to lose is long dead.
The people voting for Brexit, even the old ones, have no conception of the experience of the politicians who formed the EU. All they know is "It was fine before then wasn't it? Doesn't seem so bad in my history book!"

>>76548913
I voted to leave the European Union because I was opposed to the EU's policies, the fact that it repeatedly pushed for further integration and development as a federal entity against the referendum results of multiple EU member states and the simple fact that you cannot be a free nation if other nations have control over your finance and laws. Imagine being in the US and having up to a 20% tax on your goods put in place expressly for the purposes of funding a body that has an end goal of imposing a federal system on the entire Americas where in your government and your vote is subservient to that of appointed, unelected officials from around the entire two continents. That is completely against the principles of a free nation and it's no mistake that during the last fifty years where people have slowly been putting together first the EEC and then the EU we have seen a massive decline in civil liberties, an increase in taxation and a general rise of the idea that politicians, appointed, elected and otherwise can do what they want and can engineer us into being 'better' without our actual consent or governance. This isn't even going into the EU's ridiculous economic and social policies, its strangulation of tech, and so on. Now, is leaving the EU going to make the UK all sunshine and rainbows? No. We've had a political system that has been completely atrophied and has been purposefully undermining its key institutions and going along basically with a Civil Service run programme of mass public employment and development to fufill EU directives and to prepare for further federalisation. We haven't even left the EU properly yet because the political classes and system are so weak and venal. But that's the point, this rot needs to be halted and reversed and remaining in the EU is only going to make the matter worse. But we will at the very least be able to choose who taxes us and make them responsible and have that limited to within this nation, not elsewhere.

>>76541770
The Carolingian Empire was never a thing. Carolingians always divided property and wealth amongst their suns. Louis the Pious was just lucky (or lucky) to be Charlemagne's only surviving son and Charlemagne himself might have engineered Carloman's early demise. Louis the Pious restored his dominion over the Frankish World after his forced abdication, if he wanted to take a firmer control and consolidate the Carolingian Empire he could have. He didn't, he instead divided it as was the Franish way.

>>76548913
Are you retarded? The EU as it exists today is a product of the 90s.

>>76547741

US-supported EU federalists also supported the entry of UK into the EU. Which was strongly opposed by the French. EU is an anti-US tool. US supporting some federalists is about neutralizing it, to turn into something more palatable.

>>76537369
The duality of man

>>76549002

>you cannot be a free nation if other nations have control over your finance and laws.

It's back to the Civ 2 analogy here.
"Why are you talking to that other country? Why are you doing what they tell you to? Can't you just tell them to go away or blow them up?"
The fact is that trade, food production, policing, war, anything that you personally care about happens through agreements and shared standards between nations.
The UK has proudly given the finger to many of these as part of the EU and campaigned in its best interests to make EU laws suit it. If your assessment of the situation were correct, we wouldn't have been able to keep our currency.
There's this weird assumption people had going into Brexit that negotiations and diplomacy are Bad and lead to Other Countries Controlling Us, whereas really they're a fact of life and we had a firm hand on the bodies making the agreements.
To put it another way; if you feel we were negotiating poorly as part of the EU, why do you reckon we'd do better by giving up the advantages we have?
If you're in a fistfight with three people you know and there are iron bars lying on the ground, do you really want to be the first one to pick up an iron bar?

>>76547741
>EU federalism has long been financed by the US though.

China, Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Cuba, Taliban, Iraq, etc. etc. have been financed by the US.

>>76549134
>do you really want to be the first one to pick up an iron bar?

Do you want to be the last?

Trade negotiations between free states is a bit different than being part of a block that decides for you and you're just a voice in a crowd. Sure, if you negotiate with a country and set parameters, you're "being controlled by them" but you're also free to cease those negotiations and be free of the control. What if you're part of a bigger block? Too bad, you're beholden to the majority rule and can only reeee in the corner.

>>76549552
Ntayrt, but Britain's problem is that being a voice in a crowd is already a thing with our own politics. European restrictions were the one thing holding our own government back from taking a step towards corporate dystopia, whether right or left are in charge. The party who says they'll keep the browns out will always get the vote of the overwhelming number of gammons while decent policies will never get a look in. Greens are the only half decent party left and they will never get enough of a vote to stop being a joke.

>>76548709
They're the FBI. Spying on citizens is kinda what they do.

>>76549552

>Do you want to be the last?

If the three guys are winning, maybe you take your lumps, meet up with the guys later at the pub and get on with your lives, getting other wins later. If you escalate things from a losing position, you're going to get badly hurt.

>What if you're part of a bigger block? Too bad, you're beholden to the majority rule and can only reeee in the corner.

Again, the euro. Britain's always had the leeway to tell people to piss off within the bloc.
If you cease negotiations with a country with whom you have a trade agreement, you suffer the consequences of economic sanctions from them. If you choose not to follow EU guidelines, you suffer the consequences of... economic sanctions from them. It's exactly the same thing, but for some reason people are hyper-focused on this idea that Britain was somehow in thrall of the EU.
Fisheries are my favourite example. People love to talk about "taking back our waters". Did you know that the UK landed more from the overall EU area than the entire EU fleets combined landed from the UK? And that we had the second-largest permitted catch of any country in the EU? It's fucking wild how much clout we had.

>>76550197
That's not correct at all. This is why I don't even bother talking politics with EU fanatics. They're deluded and you can't argue with them.

>>76549836
>Unironically using the term Gammon.

Yeah, EU cultists can fuck off.

>>76550197
You're kidding right? Since the CFP was put on place,the British fishing fleet has shrink by nearly 90% while Dutch, Spanish and other fleets have grown... By nearly the same percentage. This also decimated small British shipbuilders, fish processors, machinery manufacturers, and more industry than you can shake a stick at while at the same time these sectors grew in nations allocated higher catches in British waters. And this is just one example anongst hundreds of EU policy picking winners and losers to the degregation of most. Not to mention it still doesn't cut to the core of the matter which is the fact that within the EU we do not have control over our finances and laws. People like you don't care about basic principles of sovereignty and the representation of a people. And no, Britain did not have clout in the EU at all. Don't confuse a political class and system full of people onboard with EU federalisation for influence. I worked in the Civil Service for four years and during that time the internal culture was more that we were an extension of Brussels then cared what went on in Westminster. Trust me, EU law was no restriction on what the higher ups wanted to do despotism wise mostly because what we wanted to do was perfectly in line with EU policy and we were being used as a model for a compliant good EU administration.

>>76550580

>Since the CFP was put on place,the British fishing fleet has shrink by nearly 90% while Dutch, Spanish and other fleets have grown... By nearly the same percentage.

So how come we were catching more fish in EU waters than EU was catching in UK waters? Surely the suffering of small British shipbuilders and fish processors wasn't due to the large shipbuilders and fish processors, like in every single other industry?

>People like you don't care about basic principles of sovereignty and the representation of a people.
We all do up to a point.
I care about national sovereignty of the UK as an engaged and influential island nation where our people are connected to the billions of others on Earth. History indicates that's one of the things that stops us slaughtering each other, as happened in Europe constantly for millenia.
You clearly care about UK sovereignty, and feel that the less connection with other nations, the less say they have in our affairs, the better.
Unfortunately Scotland feels the same way about Scotland as you do the UK, and the example has been set that it's every man for himself. We'll see if the rot stops at fucking Cornwall leaving or not.
Meanwhile the smaller and less connected we make ourselves, the greater the pressure to either fold to a larger power where we *weren't* an influential founding member or realise that we're going to have to start killing people to get our increasingly insignificant and less-respected voice heard.
Gonna stop here because I'm getting bitter about the future.

>>76551936
Honestly, to me the biggest victory to come out of Brexit is the sloppy rawdog buttfucking that Nicola Wetfish and the SNP were handed by it. The SNP are a bunch of spineless cocksuckers that actually want to whore their sovereignty away to a new master just to spite the English.

>>76550197
>you suffer the consequences of economic sanctions from them.

And if the deal wasn't good to begin with, you lose nothing.

>It's exactly the same thing

Except if you stop a trade deal with Bolivia, South Africa won't have to stop trading with you as well, because they were in a union and what one does, they all have to do.

>Did you know that the UK landed more from the overall EU area than the entire EU fleets combined landed from the UK?

So why is the EU bitching about it, they're gaining on this deal by getting all those fish the UK isn't catching all for themselves. They should be celebrating that they're making like a bandit with more overall fish for themselves. Or is there something they're not telling us?

>>76551936
>History indicates that's one of the things that stops us slaughtering each other, as happened in Europe constantly for millenia.

Nothing worries me more than someone having the solution that involves everyone submitting to one central authority for protection and safety, for their own good. That has never gone well in the history of the world.

>>76553038
Nuclear MAD did that, the internationalists just stole the credit. Look at the League Of Nations in the brief period between the world wars to see how useless diplomatic ties are without anything to back them up. History has vindicated Alfred Nobel, he just drastically underestimated the explosiveness required.
>My dynamite will sooner lead to peace than a thousand world conventions. As soon as men will find that in one instant, whole armies can be utterly destroyed, they surely will abide by golden peace.

>>76553296
And yet war did neither cease nor slow down.

>>76553296
>during the cold war we did not have endless proxy wars, civil wars, conflicts between non-nuclear nations, terrorism and non-government actors causing trouble, etc.

What fucking history books have you been reading?

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>>76525283
You say that...

>>76553459
>the virgin transsexual vs the chad regular dude in a bodysuit

>>76553318
>>76553379
None of which consisted of the soviets and americans using their nukes on each other.

>>76553654
No, they were both content to repeatedly nuke their own populations for 'testing'.

>>76553318
It slowed down quite a bit actually. Ironically it's the "small wars" killing the US, not the big existential ones.
>>76549476
Whoopsies!

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The ideal future would be humanity living in multiple self-governing techno-agrarian city states.

Each city-state makes their own laws and customs, to preserve the most important diversity of all - diversity of ideas. If you like trannies, go to tranny-town, if you don´t like trannies, stay on based-town.

Work is in great part either automatized, and everyone that works comes from the local communities, barely requiring globalism.

>>76553886
in reality it would be more along the lines of
>If you like trannies, go to tranny-town
>if you don´t like trannies, go to tranny-town and bring a gun

>>76553886
Gee, nothing bad will ever happen when a bunch of people decide they hate, trannies, for example.

>>76553886
This. The city-state is the ideal size of community.

>>76553922
You create a leviathan to enforce peace among the different communities. It's honestly not that different from what we have now. Do you honestly think inner city LA has the same values as Bel Air, for example?

>>76553654
They weren't fighting wars with each other before nukes were invented either.

>>76554081
And now there exists an incentive for different groups to exert control over that leviathan to define the terms of that "peace," and we're back at square one with warring factions. Unless this leviathan is an inhuman assembly that's above influence and manipulation, you're fucked.

>>76553922
You're right. They'll exterminate the trannies, and then the world will be a better place for it.

>>76536765
Damn why is everyone taking the bog pill now?

>>76553886
>>76553923
>>76554081
Tribalism and collective action are a prisoner's dilemma. The most important thing is to put your tribe in charge of the state. Trying to abolish 'the state' just means that the next-strongest tribe will replicate state structures on their own, and use their tribalism to dominate you.

>>76525283
>>76553459
If we ever get resleaving technology such that they've got actual, functional wombs, then I withdraw my complaints.

>>76553459
Yo wtf? theres no way thats real man how the fuck do they get the eye lids moving? Thats cgi man fuck off theres no way that secret agent face mask bullshit is real.

>>76555459
Eyelids are the normal eyelids. I think they use makeup to blend the seam between the mask and your skin.

>>76555459
It's just makeup. The mask glues around the eyes and the 'seam' is covered by the foundation. Eyelids are his own.

>>76548444
Huh? Where can I read more of this?

>>76555539
https://books.google.com/books?id=7co3DwAAQBAJ&pg=PT207&lpg=PT207&dq=fbi+society+for+creative+anachronisms&source=bl&ots=wRDzM_oq69&sig=ACfU3U23k5mtDdxXMiwbdU3r2qtiHf_1KQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiAmoiC0N3tAhXIp1kKHYRDBis4ChDoATANegQIBBAC#v=onepage&q=fbi%20society%20for%20creative%20anachronisms&f=false

>>76548709
Nobody leaves paradise.

>>76555627
>satan squad
We have Delta Green at home, apparently

>>76524169
This is top-notch, I immediately want to incorporate all of it into my setting. What is it from, or is this some amazing oc?

>>76553459
impressive

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>>76539169
FUCK NO. I barely managed to forget about this one. FUCK.

>>76525046
Being polite and respectful to Dick Jones would have at least gained you his respect and at best got you promoted. Not so with the marxists now holding these large corps by the balls. Dick Jones was also a scumbag but he had initiatives that drive company revenue up. I would have taken a Dick Jones over those Marxists any day of the week.

>>76556082
the storm will never come

>>76555944
>>76539169
sauce?
Also nice dubs.

>>76549012
The Carolingian Empire was demonstrably a "thing." What it wasn't was our modern conception of what constitutes a state, even a monarchist state.
I stand by my pseudo-historical statement that Louis the Pious should simply have massively centralized contrary to the customs and culture of the Franks.

>>76521510
"The soys" is a bit on the nose, but this is a great idea.

>>76550441
based. Fuck Caucasophobes.

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>>76549002
>Imagine being in the US and having up to a 20% tax on your goods put in place expressly for the purposes of funding a body that has an end goal of imposing a federal system on the entire Americas
Pls stop federal income taxes can be 35% and no one is ready to boog over it.

>>76560179
but muh representation

>>76548709
SCA does a lot of Civil War reenactments. This attracts people with certain interests and these people intersect with folks who occasionally get the brilliant idea to blow up a Federal Office in say Oklahoma.

>>76537909
>at the end of the day most of those women are constantly sexually harassed and /or assaulted by the trust fund baby douchebros who run the tech world like they run the rest of the corporate world.
You are roughly the liberal equivalent of the conservatives who think Democrats sit around all day doing drugs bought with their unemployment checks and worshipping Satan.

The douchebag tech bro stereotype was created by bitter journalists who know full well that the majority of the hierarchy at tech firms is made up of extremely intelligent and well-educated engineers who worked hard to get where they are. Much easier to call them creeps and misogynists who only succeed because of the patriarchal system than confront the fact that all the nerdy kids you made fun of in highschool now get paid ten times as much as you, and for good reason.

>>76553296
Truth. I'm sick of listening to people talk about how the EU stopped Europe having any more wars like WW2. The Americans did that (just watch a Frenchman have an aneurysm when you say that in front of him, lol).

>>76553318
>And yet war did neither cease nor slow down.
What the fuck are you talking about? War may not have stopped entirely but it sure as shit slowed down. There were two World Wars in the first half of the 20th century, and there should have been a Third World War between NATO and the Warsaw Pact in the 1950s or 60s. The only reason there wasn't was because of the threat of nuclear annihilation.

>>76561813
World wars were the exception, not the rule. The number of armed state involved conflicts around the world has been increasing steadily. There might be less state-on-state conflicts, but civil conflicts and civil conflicts with foreign actors are way higher now than they were pre-Cold War or during the Cold War.

Nukes did not end war, they only transformed it to something else. When states can't fight each other openly, they're resort to proxy wars, sponsoring insurrections and mercenaries/PMCs. It's harder to nuke a private company for waging war than a country. Not that state-on-state conflicts can't happen, even between nuclear states. India and China are killing each other at the border, they're just doing it with sticks and stones, so nobody can accuse the other for firing the first shot.

>>76562009
But those brushfire conflicts have a tiny fraction of the casualties the regular warfare of the past caused.

>>76561703
The only difference between a tech nerd and the jock who bullied him is that the jock does his raping in Uni and the tech nerd waits until the power dynamic suits him.
Tech faggots now create problems to solve, they add nothing to society.

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>>76562048

No. Surprisingly, near-peer conflicts still have exactly the same ratios of casualties of WWII. This figure hasn't changed at all despite the age of high-precision weaponry.

>>76562079

What has changed is the number of civilian deaths. In the past, you needed hundreds of bombers and thousands of bombs to hit anything, now a single bomber with precision-guided munitions can be used to destroy multiple targets and therefore you have the same lethality but with fewer assets.

>>76562048
>Wars of the Roses - 35,000–50,000
>Hundred Years' War - 2,300,000–3,300,000
>Crusades - 1,000,000–3,000,000
>English Civil War - 356,000–735,000
>Seven Years' War - 868,000–1,400,000
>American Civil War - 650,000–1,000,000
>Mexican Revolution - 500,000–2,000,000
Vs.
>Vietnam War - 2,400,000–4,300,000
>Bangladesh Liberation War - 3,000,000+
>Second Sudanese Civil War - 1,000,000–2,000,000
>Somali Civil War - 300,000–500,000
>Syrian Civil War - 387,000–593,000+
>Iraq War - 405,000–654,965
>Second Congo War - 2,500,000–5,400,000

Yup, war was hell before nukes.

>>76562148
Don't forget the 30 years war (3.5m-8m dead) and Taiping rebellion (20-30m dead).

>>76561703
>The douchebag tech bro stereotype was created by bitter journalists who know full well that the majority of the hierarchy at tech firms is made up of extremely intelligent and well-educated engineers who worked hard to get where they are
As someone who works in the industry, that's not the case. They may be intelligent and well-educated, but they're still assholes. Even more so when they realise how intelligent they are and treat everyone like shit because of that. I worked at a company that was full of really good engineers, but none of them could agree on anything with anyone else, because if they did not come up with the idea and the idea wasn't perfect it must have sucked because clearly the other guy is not smart as them.

The longer I work with software the more disillusioned I am about it. I'm lucky to work with good people now, but I think it's also mostly becuse half the team is older (40+) and much more chill than the 20-somethings and keep the other half in check.

>>76536708
That sounds fucking awesome

>>76536765
Never trust anyone unless you can see their pores.

>>76525324
>In the 80s people thought that Japan could take over all markets with their tech. That's why there is this heavy nipponphile influence in all of cyberpunk (Nuyen, top corps Japanese, language a melt of English and Japanese etc.)
The Japanese influence on cyberpunk doesn't come from a misguided vision of the future. It comes from many iconic cyberpunk works being produced in Japan by Japanese people, and from the fact that Akihabara was known as Akihabara Electric Town for a reason.

>>76562148
Basically we simply didn't have the logistic technology to support or move such large armies back then.
What was more gruesome was those lost to medical procedures or infection back then. The ones in areas safe enough for pictures of soon-to-be-dead people.

It was arguably more hellish for the individual who didn't die instantly or in minutes. But on the whole?

>>76520719

Street gangs

Folk-Phreakers. street gang/espionage network of people that have studying all up to date cyberware and human consciousness that has been consumed by memes and corporate jargon that they could whistle a tune and shutdown cybereyes, shout a meme-plague into a busy sidewalk and have a significant amount of the people descend into berserker frenzy ("10 TRANZIS 20 NOCOPE 30 GOTO 10) , know just the right angles and patters with counter surveillance to be effective invisible to surveillance. some for laughs even have implants to whistle code that translates into cracker algorithms for locks.

also, name for modern technological dystopian fiction.

If I'm being humorous, Tim Pool a while ago said that we live in a "Onions-Punk Dystopia". as another joke, Mindphuck fiction, since computers have turned us into zealots.

If I'm being serious, cyberpsy fiction.
everyone here is talking about tech or maybe blackpilled stuff, but no one is talking about the layers of psyops probably played between nations, religious cults, and corps on the populace and each other to gain that ideological control of the world narrative. Everyone in charge reads Sun Tzu, always says winning a war without firing a shot is best, so everyone is playing massive mind meme-games on one another for supremecy.

>>76525046
The ones in the right only give the impression of overlords because the ones in the left hires and allows them. The true overlord bussienssmen areimmune to the "me too", spceially if they're foreign.

Check Riot Games cases of rape and sexism. The one complaining about bro culture, sexism and lack of diversity is several dozens of pages long, but the ones where a chinese investor/higher up gropes or catcalls female employees barely has any page nor t goes anywhere after a couple months.

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You know how it's commonly said that engineers, doctors and many jobs that demand high amount of knowledge and dedication are usually ruled but certain autistic people or other mental conditions that made them more fit for these jobs?

I always had that sameimpression, but for bussinessmen with sociopathy or psicosis, that you genuinely need to lack human empathy to a degree to survive in that market. That's been my experience dealing with any bussinessmen, ever. And it killed any interested to work at a company I ever had.

>>76525283
One time I flirtd with a girl but the smell was weird (but not bad) and something on my brain kept telling me that it was "off".
I asked her friends and effectively,she was trans.

Since that day I can ltierally smell them. You can wear perfume and stuff but the moment I get to smell the skin/hair it's impossible to hide. Thankyou, biology, for preventing me from making a big mistake.

>>76537210
Yeah, but I can still tell what's fake, and there's no hiding a man face.

>>76535473

How do you keep customer expectations painfully low and exceed them at the same time though?

>>76537413
>caesar hair
>carhardt jackets
>red wings or timberlands
>fine earrings or jewelry
This has always been the signature "dangerous youth" look around here, I don't think it's changed in 3 decades. The "punk" look has always been for edgy posers, the dangerous boys were always somewhat blending in with their lower class surroundings but flashing a subtle signal that they sold meth on the side.

>>76537618
You still can't produce a tranny that passes.
Sure, you can introduce doubt as to whether a real woman is faking. But you can't convince me a man is a woman.

>>76537909
>most of these women are regularly sexually harassed.
Good. They shouldn't get to fuck up society for free.

>>76520735
Wrong. I can't scan people on the street and see their f-list or internet history and detailed criminal records on databases.

When we reach that point we will be in the cyberpunk future.

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>>76538031
>be me
>be impressionable college freshman
>fall in with some commie dogwhistle organization about sweatshop labor
>faggots go on and on about what clothes you can wear
>there are maybe 5 or 6 brands on EARTH that don't use sweatshop labor and don't require a loan to buy a shirt.
>almost all of them are American/European made
>faggots go on screaming about "muh white man's evils"
>notice most of them still wear the brands
>mostly end up traveling around and holding "organized actions" (inciting small riots) for "the worker's cause" on other liberal campuses.
>everywhere we go there's tons of free money and host houses and event spaces the university PAID for us to have to demonstrate AGAINST their own staff.
You have no idea how fucked this system is. The rampant faggotry is supported by every institution imaginable. Some of them deliberately attacking themselves so they can have a "change of heart" and attract more publicity and liberal organization's funding.

>>76553459
Still can't hide those hands bro.

>>76530301
>>76546356
>>76546430
>>76548444
>>76548709
>>76560386
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkwR8H3Oksk&feature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tz87VGhzJBY&feature=emb_logo

>>76525283
People say this, but I've seen cis women accused of being trannies so often that I simply don't believe them anymore.

>>76563821
>This has always been the signature "dangerous youth" look around here, I don't think it's changed in 3 decades.
These days, mall ninja aesthetics

>>76538937
>the next civil rights movement is for the catgirl slaves
Would you fight for them anons?

>>76564553
Slaves are a mistake. In a century, some kindhearted ass will set them all free. And a century after that, they'll still be blaming your descendants for enslaving their ancestors.

>>76538443
Always confused me when people go on a huge non sequitur rant like this. Like this bit:
>the male ones can't even be raped by law but you seem unconcerned about that because it destroys your narrative
What "narrative" is anon referring to? What makes him think the guy he's quoting doesn't care about male rape victims? Who knows. It's like he wasn't really responding to the post he responded to; he was responding to an imaginary enemy.

>>76560179
More like
>when you start a revolution because you're afraid the slaves are going to be freed and now see your population and government full of free niggers

>>76521149
the glowies and elites have been working since the age of the robber barons to make people love and worship the corpo, dum dum
the CIA just got a lot more latitude and freedom to be awful during the cold war than any agencies had had before them and never had it removed, so now we're here.

>>76556082
>the marxists holding large corpos by the balls
>the marxists
>holding large corpos
congrats for being a brainwashed retard

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>>76560179
>>76549002
>forgetting that almost immediately after the revolutionary war the new US government started their own big time tax hikes and crushed the whiskey rebellion
gosh, it's almost like the revolution was about rich land owners wanting a bigger slice of the pie and duping commoners into fighting for 'indepence'

>>76561703
nice wealth worship lol
>>76562009
civil conflicts happen due to internal strife, repression, dissatisfaction, etc.
It's a significantly type of conflict than war is

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>>76563871
Good news! The IMF wants to know that stuff to determine your credit score!

https://blogs.imf.org/2020/12/17/what-is-really-new-in-fintech/

>The most transformative information innovation is the increase in use of new types of data coming from the digital footprint of customers’ various online activities—mainly for credit-worthiness analysis.

>Credit scoring using so-called hard information (income, employment time, assets and debts) is nothing new. Typically, the more data is available, the more accurate is the assessment. But this method has two problems. First, hard information tends to be “procyclical”: it boosts credit expansion in good times but exacerbates contraction during downturns.

>The second and most complex problem is that certain kinds of people, like new entrepreneurs, innovators and many informal workers might not have enough hard data available. Even a well-paid expatriate moving to the United States can be caught in the conundrum of not getting a credit card for lack of credit record, and not having a credit record for lack of credit cards.

>Fintech resolves the dilemma by tapping various nonfinancial data: the type of browser and hardware used to access the internet, the history of online searches and purchases. Recent research documents that, once powered by artificial intelligence and machine learning, these alternative data sources are often superior than traditional credit assessment methods, and can advance financial inclusion, by, for example, enabling more credit to informal workers and households and firms in rural areas.

>>76564613
Descendants? They'll blame everyone with a vaguely similar skin colour.

>>76564706
Actually it was over playing cards. Fun Fact: the brits were doing a "leisure tax" pretty dirty, the whole tea thing was just a small part of that. Aside from cards, they were also taxing work breaks, lunches, and bricks and wanted to tax American windows like they already were doing at home.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_tax

>>76562243
the turbo-competitive and anti unity culture the US fostered during and after the destruction of working class movements in the earlier decades of the 19th century has resulted in this
One of the reasons nationalism is so beneficial is because it replaces the 'all for me, none for thee/fuck you got mine' mindset with a unified desire to build something greater.

>>76563851
women are merely a tool of the elites. The women's rights/work movement in england during ww1 is my absolute favorite example of how bald faced and disgusting it was
>factory owners and wealthy industrialists push, fund, and encourage the women's suffragate movement to shame men into enlisting in the army (white feather movement)
>this allowed the move of women entering the industrial work force out of wartime necessity which resulted in much less demand for labor and an overall reduction in wages and mobility
>the current method of doing this is simply importing 3rd world immigrants to undercurrent native labor, or straight up exporting labor to the 3rd world
Yes, that's right, the monopoly man got women to start a mass shaming campaign against anti-war men and conscientious objectors so that the dumb shrews could work on a factory line and make things worse for everyone

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>>76563948
it's because instead of economic action and real change, the glowies and elites have completely replaced it with an obsession over clout posturing and identity/social politics. It's what you're seeing the BLM movement as well, for instance

>>76562125
how have their deaths changed? civilians are still getting killed and expelled en masse, they're still getting leafleted warnings that they're about to be bombed and bombarded and if they stay it's on them, it's just the munitions are occasionally more precise. that's the only difference.

>>76565113
The IMF also uses money manipulation and debt to shackle the 3rd world to its benefactors and allow the mass exploitation of their natural resources without being allowed to benefit from it.

>>76565113
Privatize the profits, socialize the expenses, how typical.

>>76565311
exactly. Corporations love it when they get their hands on government policy after all
Free market is such a fucking joke of a concept

>>76565151
To be fair, the US appears to fundamentally misunderstand the point of workers' unions, structuring and treating them more akin to medieval guilds whose function in competition with freelance workers and other guilds more than they do to benefit the common man.

>>76565047
>laughing_yuri_bezmenov.webm

>>76565475
that's not a misunderstanding. workers unions which attempted to unite across industries, racial barriers, etc. were fought tooth and nail with the police, the national guard, pinkertons, and espionage charges. if modern US unions are like guilds, it's because guild-like unions are the only ones that are allowed to survive.

>>76565475
Yes, the worker's movement in the US was killed in its formative years as well as the public education system so comprehensively that the most effective union in the country is the police union, and most unions operate like businesses
This country is fucked and did so to itself. Future isn't looking bright.

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>>76547254

>>76565503
>literal journalist who got so assmad the kremlin wouldn't fund his jungle bunny fever that he 'defected' and spent his time in the west sensationalizing to make a living
you can't possibly think the russians are responsible for the current state of affairs instead of the glowies and ruling class of this country, can you?
>>76565531
correct
Another little funny point, the current idpol gaslighting is mirroring how racial fricture was played up and exacerbated to help destabilize and prevent formation of class solidarity back then too

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>>76539345
>China
>Innovation

>>76540323
>and now China is slapping it on their own products, claiming it stands for "Chinese Export", so they can bamboozle people into buying their sometimes literally cancerous products under the illusion that they're safe

Source on this? I believe you, I just need to see actual proof.

>>76565677
>not realizing innovation in a modern sense is streamlining, tweaking, and building off the backs of established things

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>>76565711

>>76565704
https://support.ce-check.eu/hc/en-us/articles/360008642600-How-To-Distinguish-A-Real-CE-Mark-From-A-Fake-Chinese-Export-Mark

>>76565600
>russians
Not the Russians, anon. Think for once.

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>>76565760
Thanks anon. This is getting bookmarked.

>>76565711
Only when done by non-whites.

>>76565103
>civil conflicts happen due to internal strife, repression, dissatisfaction, etc.

Or foreign actors influencing movements and groups, and having destabilizing influences, or lack of an external threat to unit against.

>It's a significantly type of conflict than war is

War is war, civil or not.

>>76548913
The EU as it is today has only been around since the 90s. They literally lived pre super state EU and voted to return to that time

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>>76565760
Yep, sounds like those fucks
>>76565719
>>76565765
>>76565889

>>76525658
So basically what the U.S. did to Britain?
And how exactly did THAT turn out?

>>76548913
>does this anon seriously think the EU was formed after the 2nd world war?
jesus christ, and I thought american education was bad

>>76525658
>Space travel means the end of cyberpunk by letting people escape
and yet most cyberpunk settings have space travel, including colonization of other planets in many cases. I mean hell, half of neuromancer takes place in a space resort. the replicants in blade runner were created specifically for working off-world. where are you even getting this?

>>76549134
>campaigned in its best interests to make EU laws suit it
And hasn't even close to the level of influence that Germany and France have despite contributing similar amounts.
>we wouldn't have been able to keep our currency
The Pound is stronger than the Euro. This is literally the only reason, any party trying to switch would be committing political suicide. You're also neglecting to mention the the UK did change it's currency to better suit the international community (Europe and the US) from an imperial to a metric system, a change which made everyone poorer or everything more expensive depending on how you want to look at it.

Brits being retarded and screwing a great fucking deal they got for themselves, based on retarded ideas they has been pushing for ages?

Blimey, ain't no way britania would sink so low, would it? Ain't no way its karmic justice.

>>76525658
>How? Space travel means the end of cyberpunk by letting people escape.
Escape to where, exactly? You got a livable planet in mind? Great. Who rules, or in another sense, owns that planet?

>>76563871
YOU can't
Only the supergenius hacker protagonist can

>>76566162
>Who rules, or in another sense, owns that planet?

The people who have the power to back their claim.

>>76543323
that's not news to anybody, it was always understood to be a gamble. it was just that the payouts were so good nobody cared. same goes for any operation in a developing country.

>>76566271
so megacorporations
delightful
>>76543323
for every example of companies getting screwed by ching chong there's a dozen about them making bank off cheap labor and human rights violations
it's the inevitable process, and now that china is starting to implement labor laws we're seeing industry being shoved to africa, SEA, and africa in pursuit of cheap labor and profit, just like they left europe, just like they left the US.
global markets are cancerous

>>76566303
>that's not news to anybody, it was always understood to be a gamble.

There is no gable, it's a guarantee. Companies are just blind and greedy, thinking they'll be the exception to the rule.

>same goes for any operation in a developing country.

Developing countries are a gamble because your investments might not bear fruit. In China you need to partner with a CCP controlled local company and they'll put their guys in key positions to make sure they get access to all your important stuff and money. Plenty of companies have found themselves fucked over by the Chinese stealing their technology, information, etc. You don't often hear about them because it's an embarrassment to the companies and people selling China as the hot new investment opportunity either for financial or political gain don't want you to know about it.

>>76563871
Bro people are walking around with super computers in their pockets and wrists, sending and receiving money on the internet on unsecured networks in over populated cities filled with sky scrapers and every other person is covered in body modification with pink or green hair. We are living in a cyberpunk future, we're just too used to it to notice.

>>76566303
It's only a gamble with high payout in the same way as the traditional "deal with a devil" is. The payout seems great, but you will lose more than you gained eventually.

>>76560179
A quick check on wikipedia shows that the tax was 4%, and that the problem had nothing to do with how high the tax was, but that only Americans had to pay it, not the british

>>76566443
>tattoos and piercings are equivalent to cybernetic limbs
gosh I sure do miss the good old cyberpunk days of 800AD

>>76538031
dirty cotton pickin' uighurs (I assume it's pronounced something like we-gurs)

>>76566465
>americans had to pay a tax to cover the cost of the french and indian war
>get convinced to revolt and proceed to be taxed even more by the new government
kek, what a country of dupes and rubes

>>76560179
>The protest movement that culminated with the Boston Tea Party was not a dispute about high taxes. The price of legally imported tea was actually reduced by the Tea Act of 1773. Protesters were instead concerned with a variety of other issues. The familiar "no taxation without representation" argument

>>76566475
>if they don't have robot hands its not cyberpunk!
Its called cyberpunk not robopunk retard

>>76566475
By God, that man is wearing melted sand in front of his eyes. What devilry is this?!

>>76566369
>so megacorporations

Assuming they can back their claim. If travel times and costs to a destination hostile to them are high, they might have trouble maintaining control.

>there's a dozen about them making bank off cheap labor and human rights violations

Using cheap Chinese labour to sell abroad is different from going to the Chinese market. You don't need to tow the CCP line to get them to make your sneakers for you, that's been going on for decades. But if you want your products to be sold to the 1.3 billion chinks, that's when you better start playing ball. And that's what China wants, for companies to come to them, so they can be beholden to their regulations, rather than Chinese companies having to go abroad and kowtow to foreign regulations.

>>76566475
If someone that looked like they do now went back to that year they would be crucified in the streets

>>76566443
>this comment
jfc dude, imagine hyper focusing on visuals and completely forgetting the isolation, dystopia, greed, corruption, and indirect societal violence that are the actual core themes of cyberpunk
at least you tapped on the tech aspect a bit.

>>76565070
There is no educating you.

>>76566564
oh, that's what you meant
yeah
>>76566575
lmfao

>>76566605
lmfao, I get the feeling this comment is rather unintentionally ironic

>>76562362
Thanks, anon. I'm open to suggestions for expanding and improving on the concept.

>>76566622
Like I said, you're not interested in the truth.

>>76566430
>>76566458
>There is no gable, it's a guarantee. Companies are just blind and greedy, thinking they'll be the exception to the rule.
plenty of companies made bank outsourcing to china. you forget all the big dogs have been there for 3 to 4 decades at this point. the initial investment has paid back hundreds of times over. sure, *eventually* shit goes pear shaped, but so what? cost of doing business, they'll just take those profits and roll on down to the next exploitable country.
You can easily tell the few times over the last half-century when the megacorps had any real chance of losing money on fucking over developing countries, because when that happens they generally get the US military to step in and bomb some peasants until everybody gets back in line. It's like the mob busting up storefronts because they're not getting their protection money. Occasionally you've got to get your enforcers to throw a brick through grenada's front window so everybody gets the message.

>>76566669
>dah troof
okay anon, whatever you say

>>76528449
>"so uhh you're fired, kill yourself"
>Chad_No.png
>wedge airlock door shut with socket wrench
>disconnect locking, air, and water systems from long-range comms net
>spend the next 24 months/ however long it'll take to starve sending actively dangerous junk data back to home base and taking the buggy out to destroy other nearby installations
Bonus: use the microwave tightbeam to talk to reporters and terrorist factions instead of mission control

>>76566695
>oh, you want to start directing your country's resources and industry to better your own people instead of generating phat profits for ceo's?
>have I introduced you to my friend? You get used to the glowing, I promise

>>76566712
as has been shown over and over again the more time goes on, the vast majority of people will bend over and spread cheeks for a very long time before realizing they have a spine, assuming they ever do.

>>76566695
>outsourcing

I'm not talking about outsourcing. I'm talking about companies going into the Chinese market.

>>76541706
Yes, they are. Accept your history, warts and all, or fuck off and die.

>>76566737
And?
A political assassination takes exactly one (1) person with skill, initative, and memento mori.

>>76566880
And Donald Trump lives on.
Turns out "skill" is the real factor here.

>>76566906
He lives on because the skilled people don't want him dead.

>>76548444
wait, this is real
I thought you were just listing off another scenario like the topic of the thread

>>76553794
death by a million cuts is almost always overlooked as a way of dying, despite the fact a lot of the biggest, most prosperous nations/states/corps/etc. end that way

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>>76538937
>>76564553
>>76564613
>>76565114

>>76566712
>Bonus: use the microwave tightbeam to talk to reporters
By the time mars colonies are a thing, the Six https://www.businessinsider.com/these-6-corporations-control-90-of-the-media-in-america-2012-6 will have finished merging into one giant corporate conglomerate and the internet will have been censored to death in the name of fighting 'hate speech', so the only media narrative will be about 'dangerous martian terrorists'.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN2r8me6uYA

>>76567108
>first I invented the magical realm
>then I built a self-replicating machine that could convert any system in to a copy of the magical realm
>predictably, the shutdown codes failed to work
>by my calculations, 69.2% of the observable universe has now been converted to magical realm

>>76566585
>isolation, dystopia, greed, corruption, and indirect societal violence
Have you been outside lately?

>>76567623
Never mind i just remembered what board im on

>>76563835
define pass

>>76566585
Ah yes I forgot we live in a society where there's no feeling of isolation, no lock down of any sort or anything, no greedy corporations making life hard for the common man and essentially having monopolies on selling anything, no corruption anywhere, especially the government and law enforcement, and absolutely no societal violence such as 4 years of riots with people killing and beating. You're right anon, my mistake.

>>76567867
killing and beating in the streets*

>>76551936
But have you considered Britain ending up kinda like Timor Leste?

>>76566669
When the truth is whatever you want it to be, it ceases to be truth.

>>76563871
You can but it's not press X to hack like in videogames, it requires years of study and practice.

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>>76567526