One of my main problems when running a cult or introducing one is hat I find it difficult to imagine why people would join such a cult. Why would someone devote their lives to the dark powers and commit to bringing around an apocalypse? I mean, the only reason I can think of is because "They craezy lol", which really isn't an adequate answer. Do they do it for power? That's how it's usually portrayed in media, but most cultists seem to end up with less autonomy and less power over their lives as they're forced into a religious doctrine.

>>75962398
Do you think they're introduced with "hi, want to end the world?" It starts with a philosophy of pandering and preaching to the disenfranchised, to make people without a place in the world feel as though they finally have a home, somewhere they belong, a family of sorts. Once they're inside, the cult starts demonizing everything on the outside, depicting everything outside of the cult's control as sinful and evil. By the end of the indoctrination, which can take years to fully embed itself in a cultist's mind, everything not of the cult is inherently evil - and why wouldn't such a world be deserving of an apocalypse?

>>75962398
Cultists do what they do because they believe the cult doctrines are true. In other words, the cult's doctrine makes sense in their minds, and they could probably recite the reasons why they believe it off the top of their head.
That's not to say that a cult wouldn't recruit from the mentally ill, but remember that "being crazy" basically means that you follow an alternate pattern of logic.

>>75962398
Cults look for weak and disenfranchised to join them.
Being bullied by everyone and bullying people on the orders of your cult's master is still a promotion

>>75962398
The whole "kill everybody" bit is typically withheld from most of the cult's members. For reference see those nutters in Washington or Oregon who committed the first biological terrorist attack in the United States.

Fun fact: the ringleader only got three years in prison for "product tampering" or something.

>>75961527
Generally the best way to build cults for an RPG I think would be organizing it into the pillars that make cults interesting and fleshing them out from there. The pillars would be as follows:
- What does the cult look like to the public? What image does it cultivate?
- What is the sell of the cult? What does it promise initiates to get them in the door?
- What is the myth underneath the sell? What do they manipulate initiates into believing to make them fanatical followers?
And finally:
- What is the cult really about from the top down? is it just a scam? Is it about consolidating power?

From there you can build a few interesting twists in:
- The cult isn't what it was originally made as, either having been co-opted by an interloper or changed by a schism in following
- The cult may not be directly nefarious; while strange and perhaps fabricated, it genuinely operates as a club or church with similar motivation (collect dues, increase membership, provide services, profit, expand and improve)
- The cult is a front or psy-op; for the government, for organized crime, for another organization; some curtain separates the "cult" from the real organization, which may be ranks of membership or something completely else

Remember that effective cults are interesting cults, and interesting cults often invent ritual, tradition and dogma to attract followers. Don't be afraid to produce outlandish rites and beliefs, but make sure they have a minimal degree of consistency to themselves, such that someone who believe in one part will be likely to believe the other parts.

>>75962398
>>75961527
Really wacky cults don’t hit you with their central doctrine right away

They act friendly and say they just wanna talk about life and shit and then slowly feed you their ideology while isolating you from anyone with sense.

Scientology doesn’t hit you with aliens right away

They wait until you’re too invested and indoctrinated

>>75962494
>Do you think they're introduced with "hi, want to end the world?" It starts with a philosophy of pandering and preaching to the disenfranchised, to make people without a place in the world feel as though they finally have a home, somewhere they belong, a family of sorts. Once they're inside, the cult starts demonizing everything on the outside, depicting everything outside of the cult's control as sinful and evil. By the end of the indoctrination, which can take years to fully embed itself in a cultist's mind, everything not of the cult is inherently evil - and why wouldn't such a world be deserving of an apocalypse?
But what if the entity/deity’s existence and evil are both well-known in the setting to anyone with a basic knowledge of the gods and stuff?

>>75964239
This is supposed to be very close to the modern day

>>75961527
Look into some wacky cults, there's more than enough material on YouTube. Generally they follow a few trends:
>Hypercharismatic leader
>Preys on people who are weak, rejected by society, down on their luck or otherwise vulnerable though according to some AskReddit video on Youtube (do you think I actually go to that cesspool? I just let Youtube filter out the highlights for me) it's a bad idea to confront them just to clown on them, because as much as you "know what you're doing" they'll get you eventually
>They push a narrative where everyone hates you and only the cult accepts you
>They push a narrative where leaving the cult or going against the leader's orders is some kind of grand betrayal, which will have severe consequences
>The cult leader and his inner circle get special privileges (like having the most wives if you look at Mormons for example)

Often the social pressure gets so high, that even people who know or figure out that it's all a scam will keep pretending either because they long for acceptance or fear whatever happens if they leave and/or incur the leader's wrath. But of course not all cults follow this drawbook, you can't really argue that for Heaven's Gate when everyone died. Except two people. Who, from what I've heard, still operate the Heaven's Gate website. I think they still even respond to emails and the like. Heaven's Gate are weirdos among weirdos.

>>75964239
From my point of view the Jedi are evil!

>>75962775
The Rajneeshi? They just used salmonella poisoning to rig an election, they weren't trying to kill everyone. Just a few, for practical purposes.

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The Simpsons has a fun episode on cults.

>>75966353
What season? Because if it's the later seasons, it's gonna be cringe.

>>75966387
season 9, so not quite peak but still pretty good
Episode 13

>>75961527
Real life cult 3 thing
1 piramid scheems
2 suicide pack
3 doomsdays terrorist

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>>75961527
>>75962398
Anon, Humans are all more or less susceptible to brainwashing. Interestingly, being rich or powerful is no guarantee of resistance to it. Generally the brainwashing process preys on a sense of social isolation in one way or another, which is why you see actors isolated by their fame jumping into things like Scientology or that NIXVM stuff more recently.

>>75966524
>NXIVM
man, I never really read up on that thing aside from the Allison Mack sex slave cult thing.
>Brandon Porter, M.D., a medical doctor, conducted unlicensed human-subjects research on 200 people for NXIVM. During a "fright study", Porter exposed subjects to disturbing videos, including actual footage of a decapitation
That sounds horrible. Or just your average day on /b/. which sounds horrible.

Cults take their members from the people on the outskirts of socity. The homeless is a good target. But in your up to it which group of people is getting the short end of the stick do to changing socity. IE which groups whose powerbase is collapsing is the best targets. If workers are being replaced by machines, their the ones most open to cults. Are nobles being replaced by merchant houses then they are top target. Of course even in those groups the most isolated are the primary target.

>>75966524
>Generally the brainwashing process preys on a sense of social isolation in one way or another
That explains [controversial political opinion] pretty well.

>>75966524
Accurate. Isolation makes it harder for people to not view the world in tunnel vision. Back when I did gov glownigger stuff we kept a closer eye on disgruntled social outcasts because they are the main recruits for terrorist violence.

>Nobody likes you
>But we like you!
>You have a special destiny with us
>This person/These people are the reason your life is so pathetic
>Now buy this stuff from Home Depot and spare nobody

>>75967463
Ha, good one. You sure showed [political group I don't like] who's boss! Luckily [political group I align with] are nothing like that!

>>75967449
Actually most cults avoid people who are already have severe mental issues. Why invest time trying to brainwash someone who is broken and may harm your cults image of superiority, who will say or pretend to be interested for a hot meal and warm place to stay until they can sneak off and get a hit of their addiction?

Now they do offer charity to such vagrants to project their "positive" social ideals and attract their real targets - people with influence or people desperate for a blue pill, who will give it all up for the idea of belonging to something greater than themselves.

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>>75962398
cults don't see the gods they worship as evil obviously. they are right and good and you are wrong and evil. the exact thing that you think about them. easy to see a goal of world destruction being about entering eternal pleasure or heaven or something. the alter faction in elder scrolls want to unmale the world because they see themselves as temporarily depowered gods and think that the world is their prison. once unmade they belive they will acend to godhood or something. cultists of bhaal in the forgotten realms killed people they thought were his godchildren to make him powerful enough to reincarnate and I assume they would be rewarded after the fact. in real life some Christians and Buddhists among others think that living a simple, poor, and shitty life will let them get to heaven/sublime. some cultures seemed to think that everyone they killed would be their slave in the afterlife, easy to make an "evil" murder cult from that.

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>>75966524
>>75967613
>isolation
no it's actually mass acceptance that is the cause. isolation can create special cases and mostly the thing at work with isolation is that it creates a sense of acceptance and normalcy if they are isolated in that group. obviously an entire culture and society is really good at presenting a sense of normalcy. in these cases interaction with different views actually stenghtens their resolve and sense of being "right". pure isolation just makes a crazy person that's easy to push around in the same way its easy to pay a bum five bucks pick up shit with their bare hands, it's not that he's a cult bum, he's just poor and desperate. being in debt or having a secret (like being a closet faggot) are also things that can make you a security risk since people can leverage those things against you and put you in a desperate situation, it's not about being in a cult or easily indoctrinated. also being a janitor at a rinky FBI building doesn't make you a glownigger.

>>75961527
start with kidnapping a cult member at the request of their family members so that the cultists can be deprogrammed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm1N5_XeVIk

>>75962398
So while it doesn't relate to "why people join" I can tell you why people don't/can't leave. People who get pulled into cults are encouraged to start investing into the cult; time, money, personal life, etc. typically a cult's supervisors make people who are indoctrinated are isolated, and with out means of reaching out for help. Most people who realise their in a cult either realise it early enough and nope the fuck out, or by the time they realise they're usually too isolatedf and entrenched to pull out of.

People have very frequently likened cult's to abusive relationships. When an abuser wants to take power over you, they start trying to influence you, isolate you, start telling you who you can and can not spend time with, where you can and can not go, if you can own a phone.

basically outside of the doctrine of beliefs with in a cult, the mentality should be understood as "a network of abusers and the victims they've isolated from the world" the victims often have some sort of exploitable quality the abusers/cult saw and decided to take advantage of

>>75962711
Same reason people join gangs and terrorist groups. If you’re isolated and alone, they give you a group to be a part of.

>>75970566
> Unmale the world
> Unmale

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>>75970907
you realize this definition includes basically all jobs/careers and even citizenship of countries? stop parroting pop-psychology explanations you saw on facebook. if you get kidnapped and wake up in a cult in a different country with no money or friends you're not just going to say
>whelp guess I'm a cult member for life now! when's our glorious leaders next requested dick sucking?

>>75970973
right, lots of uppermiddle class white kids with absent fathers going off to join the bloods right? in really shitty areas, gangs start to be the normal and people go along with it. the same with terrorists. the same with religion. you think people in Japan being shinto is just a whacky coincidence? or is it that shinto is already big there and people grow up with it?

>>75971077
No because the bloods don’t let in white people and the ideology isn’t spiritual but strictly monetary, but the principle remains the same.

>>75970729
>putting the cart before the horse
social isolation makes people vulnerable to cult recruiting which will give mass acceptance with the threat of no longer being accepting if you don't live the cult's idea of normal (the usual cut your non cult family and friends out of your life, do unpaid cult stuff for 12 hours a day and exist on beans and rice, become financially entangled with the cult kind of shit)

>>75971077
okay, how am I wrong?

>>75971077
>lots of uppermiddle class white kids with absent fathers going off to join the bloods right?
pretty sure that was the prime demographic of the hippy era west coast cults

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>>75971312
>>75971307
all your definitions and theories fail the second they are applied to real life. plenty of cult members have families and bring them with them for instance. it's very common for the family or extended family to beg the cult member to leave and offer help since being a culty isn't as distasteful as being a crackhead or something. this idea that "isolation" makes people cult members is bullshit and relies on a constantly changing definition of isolation. it turns into a literal argument of semantics. the military for instance is a holy grail of cult mechanics yet retention is super low and all people do all day is talk about how much they hate the military. the simple and most obvious answer is that people who willingly and freely join cults obviously want to be there. stop pretending everyone is a victim. people make stupid bad decisions all the time and sometimes later feel regret over them. it doesn't mean they were a poor victim who got tricking by a nefarious character to make them do it in the first place.

>>75971368
oh you mean back when hippie cults were super popular? not happening so much these days hu?

>>75971545
>all your definitions and theories fail the second they are applied to real life.
all of yours are so broad you've made everything from citizenship to having a job a cult

>>75971368
The Beach Boys guy was friends with Charlie Manson

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>>75971598
no lad, that was *me* pointing out to *you* that your definition was so broad and ill defined it could apply to jobs and citizenship

>>75971545
yeah no shit, people who want to be in a cult want to be there. I said most people don't realise they're in a cult until it's too fucking late. There will always be an element of consent, it's purely dependant on how the consent is acquired, and how far it is leveraged, and how willing the person consenting is willing to go.

There's a reason most of the people in the military only come to actively hating it until after they're out of it.

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>>75971793
you don't seem to be defending your own argument so I don't know what to say. you agree that the military is cult like and yet has super low retention. yet you also think people are forced to stay in cults for some nebulous reason of "isolation"? you agree that people freely join simply because they want to but then they magically don't have the will to leave even though they "want" to? you need to make a clearer point for me to attack. you're just being wishy-washy.

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>>75971793
>>75971368
>>75971312
>>75971307
>>75971171
>>75970973
>>75970907
>>75970121
>>75967613
>>75967449
here is an easier way to think about it since many of you don't seem to be strong critical thinkers. you can apply this same concept to many different issues. if x, then y.

>if x, then y
>if x is true, then we should see y
>if isolation causes people to go into cults, then people who are isolated should go into cults or cult like organizations

that's not what see in real life though. literally the common definition of isolation is a withdraw from organizations of any type. colleges, prisons, military, jobs etc all fit these definitions of isolation that people are using (financial, social, geographic isolation) but we don't see everyone becoming cult drones or becoming religious fanatics. sure it happens but it's not the norm. that is to say it's literally not the thing you expect to see to happen. it's abnormal. not normal. you can take fringe cases and pretend it makes up the majority. you see to me making your predictions backwards, where if someone joins a cult they must have been "isolated" no matter what their life was actually like.

>>75971907
I don't address the "isolation" because you have made it very clear you refuse to accept that some people end up in situations that are beyond their control. but maybe I can present it like this; A person joins a cult, usually under the impression that it is not a cult at all. They do so willingly, because they believe the cult is good for them. Over time the cult starts asking for more and more things from the person in terms of investment and engagement(the relinquishing luxuries and priveleges like time with friends at places they like to getting more and more extreme up to giving up phones and homes), the person believes these to be good for themselves. Sooner or later a point where the person will come to realise they have been manipulated and are part of a cult. Depending on the moment they realise, what they have been manipulated into giving up, where they are in terms of self actualization will be the deciding factor on how easy it is to get out.

>>75972237
You seem to be under the impression there is only one type of isolation friend. a person who isolates from the world is not the same as a person who has been isolated by outside factors.
The isolation of cults, is an isolation of psychology and manipulation. The cult convinces a member to no longer talk to family members, to stop spending time with friends, to stop participating in society, whether or not the person being manipulated was a person who is predisposed to isolate themselves from society is irrelevant because they're being emotionally manipulated by people they look up to into thinking what they are doing is right for them.

>>75971907
>magically don't have the will to leave even though they "want" to?
Not that anon, but if a person is joining a cult because the cult makes them feel valued and like they belong to a community, then not toeing the cult’s line means losing all of that.
People have a need to feel like they belong and are important- some people can get this from their jobs or families or whatever, but cults specifically prey on people who *don’t* feel like they belong
This isn’t unique to cults of course, like you say lots of organisations offer a sense of community or belonging. The difference is that cults use the threat of permanent shunning in a more overt and sinister way, and encourage members to cut off any non-cult connections they do have to make the threat of shunning even worse.
The army generally doesn’t mind that you still visit your parents on leave

>>75961527
Google "BITE model cults." The BITE model describes how cults control their members and cultivate emotional dependency from them. BITE stands for "Behavior/Information/Thought/Emotion." For the record, yes, Jehovah's Witnesses and The Mormon Church check all the boxes on the BITE model.

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>>75972328
>>75972246
>>75972343
>someone is only "isolated" if it helps my argument
if x, then y. your arguments don't hold up and you couldn't hope to make a verifiable prediction with such bullshit. people aren't emotionally stressed and isolated in the military or prison? there is no great predictor know for picking out future cult members but it's easy to see its not being "emotionally isolated" something that has nit great definiont, seems to be blatantly false when taking into account military and prison, and is farthermore something that literally ever human is going to experience to some degree in their life.

you may as well say serial killers are people have have breathed air before committing their crime.

>>75971907
I don't really have a horse in this race, but:
>forced to stay in cults for some nebulous reason of "isolation"?
>they magically don't have the will to leave even though they "want" to?
Cults and the such intentionally make their membership dependant on them for all of their needs and push them to distance themselves from friends and loved ones as a means of making leaving them a more risky prospect. Leaving such a cult often means having to start over with little/no money, no connections, no reliable shelter and often very little in the way of job prospects if they've spent their working hours sweatshopping lanyards and what have you. There's also the fact that a lot of cults tend to 'love bomb' inductees by way of gifts, favors and emotional support, and then holding that against them as a form of emotional blackmail when they start having second thoughts about the whole thing.

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>>75972356
>BITE model cults
yeah and the military and prisons fit the model better than almost any cult ever created yet people can't get out of those fast enough. if x, then y. the BITE model fails to explain why all or most prisoners and military members aren't cultists.

>first page of the website is crying about the Cult of Trump!
lol go back

>>75964239
>The accounts are wrong, history is written by the victors
>Everything you thought you knew is a lie
I mean, there are people who unironically think Hitler was right. There is always a group of people willing to believe in something and discounting every piece of evidence against it.

>>75972604
shut the fuck up faggot. if you are going to pipe up at the end of the thread at least read it first. you're making the same basic bullshit points that the very first poster did.

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>>75972899

>>75972672
>yeah and the military and prisons fit the model better than almost any cult ever created
you just looked up what bite stands for you didn't actually read it if you think this

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>>75973059
no I looked up 30 something list of markers and saw that prisons and the military meets 95% of them. about 100% depending on how officially certain things have to be like rape. I'm guessing you have no idea how restrictive and invasive the military is. but please, explain how it applies to cults and not to prisons and the military.

>>75972672
>>75973201
how bout this.
Humans are more emotional than they are thoughtful and if you can poke at the emotion bits in the right ways you can overwrite the thinky bits and make an otherwise logical person do something that is not logical.
Stop being a pretentious faggot.
The Military and prisons employ cult like thinking. Cult like thought practices are used by all sorts of groups. I don't know what you fucking want out of this discussion.

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>>75973242
yeah meanwhile in reality the intended goal of military training is indoctrination, but it doesn't count because it means youre wrong. you pretend to have a scientific argument with models but once there is the slightest pushback you can't defend it and resort to crying about how it's all "emotional and stuff and you just need to belive me! " typical soft science faggot. the point of the argument, since you're pretending to have forgotten, is that "isolation" nor the BITE model give a satisfacty explanation as to why people join and refuse to leave cults and can be dismissed out of hand using simple real world examples (which means it's a really bad explanation if you didn't know).

>>75973375
Every single fucking thing you say can be aplied to cults. No one is not saying the military is not a cult, no one is saying the prison system is not a cult. Just shut the fuck up and stop being a pretentious faggot with your shitty reaction images.

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>>75973475
OK so now the military and prisons are a cult? then why is retention in the military so low? why can people so easily and freely leave the military even after encountering every cult tactic in the book? why don't people leave actual cults? are you just fucking retarded and shouting random shit now? I'm in disbelief over how pathetic you're being. you'll say literally anything just so you don't have to admit you were wrong about one thing on the internet.

this is the part where you reply mockingly that yeeeah youre totally right and I'm toootally wrong let's move on as a way to protect your ego.

>>75973571
just shut the fuck up

>>75965454
>it's a bad idea to confront them just to clown on them, because as much as you "know what you're doing" they'll get you eventually
I once made a JW chick at one of those pamphlet stall thingies bluescreen.
Was hilarious.

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>>75973674
ah and there we have it. another beautiful cycle of an internet argument completed. how about next time not trying to argue over shit you know nothing about. it will save you a lot of butthurt.

>>75973734
fuck off.

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>>75961527
>>75962398
Problems like these can always be solved by asking and answering a series of questions.
>Why would people join an evil apocalypse cult?
Maybe they didn't know about the cult's intention to bring about the doomsday prophecy when they joined? Maybe they didn't have anything else outside the cult, and the cult gave them meaning. Maybe the cult grew more extreme as time went on? Maybe the cult treated them with reason and kindness at first, before slowly radicalizing them?

Repeat this process until you have a fleshed out organization. Pic unrelated.

>>75973571
>after encountering every cult tactic in the book
Not that anon, but the military doesn't use every single cult tactic in the book?
They don't expect you to never speak to your non-military family and friends ever again, and if you leave once your term is up they're not going to stop you from keeping in contact with any military buddies you have. Hell if your country has a GI bill or equivalent there's a direct incentive to leave after a certain point
The military has *some* cult-like aspects, just like most religions do, but that doesn't necessarily make them capital-C Cults

I don't quite think prisons are applicable to this argument because, definitionally you're forced to be there for the duration of your sentence, and they generally kick you out once said sentence is up

>>75973571
Not the anon you replied to, but if i had to play devils advocate then the reason is money. Cults need retention to squeeze every last cent out of their victims and then still find some way to exploit them. But the military, especially the US branches, get funding out the ass. Forcibly keeping some joe shmoes will simply fuel more anti military sentiment which could lead to decrease of funding. So it becomes a bad idea, especially since the benefit of squeezing some more shekels out of your devotees is nothing compared to the current funding.

>>75962398
>>75970566
As someone who hasn't been brought up within christianity I can safely say that it can easily be construed as the kind of obviously demonic cult that wants to bring about the end of the world which is so popular within fantasy etc.
As such maybe try coming at it from a similar angle; i.e consider stuff like:
>The cult explains the existance of evil as a flaw of humanity which can be abated through ritual sacrifice of voluntaring people who take the community's evil upon themselves and by doing so rid the living cult members of any evil that they have committed. This is the ultimate act of love one could ever do since they condemn their soul to save others.
Ofc, this sort of thing can then be construed by an outsider as the cult actively seeking out and tricking vulnerable and naive individuals to follow them to a place of worship where they then are ritually murdered.
>The cult believes that one day, after certain events, their god will take physical shape and lead the faithful in a great war which will result in a new era of bliss and peace on earth.
Actions committed by believers to bring about their god walking the earth are however understood by unbelievers as the cult insidiously nestling itself into affairs of state in an effort to destroy not only their own society but civilisation as a whole.
>Since the cult understands bringing about this final war as the primary moral responsibility of humanity, any action which goes against it is by definition immoral and at best misguided and at worst evil.
Due to this notion anyone who wants to leave the cult or starts questioning the leadership is perceived as a great danger. Such an evil must definitely be stopped, either by making the individual in question repent or, if that is out of the question, by killing the person. Since this person is working against the primary moral imperative of human existance killing him/her becomes a good deed since it helps bringing everything back on track.

>>75966304
>they weren't trying to kill everyone. Just a few, for practical purposes.

They sprayed it everywhere, throughout the entire town. In grocery stores and restaurants. They wanted to wipe out the locals so they could have the run of the place and establish their own township centered at their complex.

>>75977121
As such you find yourself with a highly influential cult which act behind the scenes to bring about the downfall of the state. They don't shy away from killing anyone who stand in their way and gladly partake in as many human sacrifices as possible.

>>75977121
>i can see Christianity as a demon cult
>but not islam, hindu, or anything else

Reminder that in an academic sense "cult" is literally synonymous with "sect" and doesn't carry any of the negative connotations its picked up in the media due to the Jamestown nutters and so forth. Saying "Christianity used to be a cult" isn't some kind of clever insight.

>>75977178
Don't be a dingus.
I presume that most people in this thread, just like myself, is mostly aware of christianity and so that is what I used as an example.
Besides, just because I stated the former of your quotes doesn't mean that the same can't be said about other religions.

>>75977231
>join a band of traveling weirdos lead by one guy who says he can forgive sins and is also a powerful sorcerer
it's a cult by both definitions

>>75961527
>Cults in fantasy are always portrayed as random hooded guys worshipping Cthulhu, but in real life they're more interesting than that, and make heavy use of psychological manipulation and shaming, I want my players to really get a feel of how they operate before they take them down.
What about in non-urban fantasy settings, though?

>>75980499
Go deepthroat a shotgun, bumpfag.

>>75961527
>>75962398
Cults, religions, political powers, etc. All of those are just wars of idelogies. "I can fix things" says someone. "I know I have the right idea, and no one has ever tried this before. If we simply do this, then all of these bad things can go away."

Democracy says "We can fix things by listening to everything everyone has to say, and do the things that most people think are right."

Buddism says "We can fix things by having people reign and control their own desires to a point of enlightenment. Then people will not want to do bad things naturally."

Altruism says "We can fix things, but only if we can truly learn to do unto others good with no promise of return. When we learn that we can be good with no rewards, then things will be right again."

Chaos says "Things are only allowed by the strong. If you can do it, then that makes it right in retrospect. Only the strong will live, and everyone will be free and happy."

Illuminati conspirators and flat-Earthers promise "Things were right before, and we lost control! If we defeat the bad guys that control the information, then things will go right back to where they were, and happiness returns!"

Cults, such as scientology, even if they are lying on their face about it, offer you a true solution, an ideology, a promise of ideals to rule the way one lives. They all promise "It's not your fault you're unhappy. Evil Spirits/Magic/Aliens/The Occult Underground all filled you with sin that weighs you down. If you listen to our [Supernatural entity of choice], then you can really be happy!" It shifts the guilt to something not them, which, sure, that helps out a TON in the bite, but the reason it becomes appealing to people is because it's an idea they can live behind. Cults are selling these ideas to people, and when they fully invest, drain them.

>>75972505
>people aren't emotionally stressed and isolated in the military or prison?
They are though. The difference here is that they have a group to catch them. Military and gangs/social structures. Cults catch isolated people on the outside of those with no one else to catch them. Your definition of "Y" isn't expanded enough to make logical arguments with. Go back to the drawing board first.

>>75973571
>then why is retention in the military so low? why can people so easily and freely leave the military even after encountering every cult tactic in the book?
Because they don't employ teachings or trainings stating you can never leave ever because everyone outside hates you, and in fact do the opposite by promising once you get out you'll be clean and guilt free (prisons) or highly desirable and successful (military)?

>>75981457
I'm bumping this thread even though I'm not interested in it just to spite you.
Fuck off to some garbage traditional forum you utter nigger.

>>75962398
You know how the Jehovah's Witnesses do it? "Disfellowshipping." So your parents are Jehovah's Witnesses, right? You do anything that the Elders don't like (yes, Elders, like Vampire the Masquerade), they disfellowship you. Not only are you kicked out of the church (obviously) but members are required to cut all contact with you lest they risk disfellowship themselves. This includes direct family members, and includes HOUSING a disfellowhipped person. And, among the things that can cause disfellowshipping is, of course, questioning a one. This combined with the fact that JW's are heavily encouraged to only socialize within the church means that, if you were born a JW, the decision to leave is also accompanied by completely cutting yourself off from every relationship you've ever had. It's an absolutely brutal piece of social leverage and it's why almost nobody leaves. JW is a legit cult.

>>75962398
>One of my main problems when running a cult or introducing one is hat I find it difficult to imagine why people would join such a cult.
If they're a real Evil McEvilpants cult and aren't into lovebombing peasants who feel kinda lonely to slowly brainwash them, just have them adopt/kidnap starving war orphans and street urchins who are forced to do tasks for the cult and recite catechism in exchange for the best and most plentiful food in town.

>>75971652
>it could apply to jobs and citizenship
Says a lot
@
Bottom text

>>75961527
Okay so I have some research into this area and I think I can help out with some issues.

Cult leaders are essentially sales people, many of them come from successful careers in sales or have been con artists. Their strength is putting people at ease and being able to keep your attention on them. This makes it easier to draw people in you arent converting them youre making them consuners of your product. Its no different to car salesmen or estate agents.

Secondly, cults will target vulnerable people, battered wives, cancer survivors, addicts, people with mental health disorders, homeless you get the drift. People who find life hard, hopeless or generally difficult. These cultusts come along and sell them the idea of a life of happiness. Thats a strong message and stronger pull than many can imagine.

Recruitment is a slow, careful process, you dont start and by the end of the week are full cultists. Its starts usually with community/activities with people. Maybe a film night, playing some sports, craft sessions all a way of getting people to meet others like them. It makes you happy and you start to associate it with them. Then comes the light stuff, maybe a group session or some presentations. After 6 months youre in deep and most people dont realise until they are fully into the cult.

Lastly they prey on sunken costs, which fa/tg/uys should be used to, as a way of keeping people. They make it a financial commitment, pay for some early sessions, membership, a retreat or camp. Soon youve spent a significant sum of money so you feel obliged to stay so you get your moneys worth. Many in deep will sell homes and quit jobs to be full time members. This is deliberate as it cuts your ties to the outside world and cuts off financial independence. You come to rely on them as a source of food, shelter, clothing and employment.

At the end of this, maybe a year or two later youre in deep with no way out. So you stay and worship.

An important part of making a cult feel real is the way they demonize outsiders and skeptics. A true cult isn't just about believing weird things, they are also about how their "enemies" are literally trying to kill them (or worse) and that leaving the cult isn't just bad for you, but makes you one of THEM.

Look up detransitioners to see a good example of how your cult should talk about apostates.

>>75984186
>Look up detransitioners to see a good example of how your cult should talk about apostates.
What are some other good examples of this kind of thing?

>>75962398
Just look up the twitter crowd's rationalizations.
>staying in with the right cliques
>harming those they already hate
>keep up a veneer of righteousness while doing horrid shit
>get patreonbux

>>75973848
>The military has *some* cult-like aspects
Very good point even though it's false. It shows that the reverse is true and was noticeable for the longest time: cults often take on military-like aspects and mimick military organizations. It's Seinfeld effect in action.

>>75985276
Literal cults are pretty good examples, Scientology especially. Some Internet fan communities tend to display this sort of cult-like behavior, but really the trans community (especially with regards to detransitioners) is the only secular thing that really gets to levels that compare to actual cults in my experience.

You can find similar behavior by literal schizophrenics, but that's usually just one or two people obsessing over a few people they view as traitors and lacks the various degrees and nuances of a cult, it's pretty much just the most extreme stuff. Look up 'gangstalking' on YouTube if you really want to get a look.

>>75985943
>the only secular thing that really gets to levels that compare to actual cults
I'm sure several revolutionary political organizations are like this as well. Khmer Rouge for example.

>>75986374
Yeah, you're probably right. In fact I know you're right, it's a miracle that no one in my family was actually killed in the Cultural Revolution (the fact that all the men in the family were overseas probably had something to do with it), but the stories they've told me are chilling.
But I was specifically trying to come up with ongoing examples that OP can easily find online without having to go through some sort of shady website.

>>75962398
They're typically disenfranchised/social outcasts to begin with, and you'd honestly be surprised what some people are willing to do to maintain their connection to a group that makes them feel like they belong.

It helps that cults also tend to make it's members dependant on the group (having them live in cult-owned housing, forbidding/severely restricting contact with non-members, restricting access to information that hasn't been run through the cult's propaganda machine, etc.)

>>75964239
>"Everything you've been told about [god name here] is a lie"
Or
>Group worships the god under a different name that isn't in the mainstream

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>>75961527
Lot MLM scams can be seen as a version of an "Secular" cult that more closely worships money indirectly as they work on the same foundations. Just look into the methods they use for a more cut and dry explanation.

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>>75961527
>Cults in fantasy are always portrayed as random hooded guys worshipping Cthulhu
Alright, but what if Cthulhu or whatever is explicitly "real"?

Also, what kinds of rituals and offerings would such a deity prefer, and why? What guidelines should you follow when creating such things for cults?

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>>75965454
Pic from the Heaven's Gate website. Interesting stuff. It's the same basic formula as Christianity, but because it kills its members it obviously has less memetic reproductive potential.

But it's exactly what people are talking about in this thread about targeting the most vulnerable -- "those who would rather take that leap than stay in this world", in other words, people whose lives suck.

>>75962398
Watch Midsommar, there were morons in the audience who thought the ending where the MC smiles as she drinks the koolaid and watches her ex get burned alive is a happy ending because of "new beginnings" bullshit. People are depressingly gullible so long as you coat your poison in saccharine shit, especially when they're starved for affection.

>>75993102
>Leap of faith
I seriously invite everyone to figure out why the Heaven's Gate people killed themselves, because "leap of faith" doesn't do any justice to how wacky it is. It'd be hilarious if it wasn't tragic.

>>75993190
>That spoiler
No wonder laugh tracks are so effective. You can make people believe things they know are wrong purely by framing. Such obvious non-truths as "The Big Bang Theory is funny". Actually, when you think about it if you allow me to go full retard, if we presume the ending is supposed to give you warm and fuzzy feelings then it's actually on a meta-level applying cultlike practices on the audience itself. The audience itself, while observing the MC drink the Kool-Aid, is in a sense drinking the Kool-Aid themselves.

>>75992652
>Also, what kinds of rituals and offerings would such a deity prefer, and why?
Only something directly useful. Borrowing your brain as a remote conduit/processing power or whatever, or simply drawing sustenance from your soul. Or providing services such as rituals to incarnate it or whatever. It wouldn't give a shit about the devotion itself.

>>75993534
the big bang theory is funny enough for a sitcom and had almost no tranny or liberal shit in it. also the shortstack blonde is a 10/10

>>75993661
>the big bang theory is funny enough for a sitcom
That's a pretty low bar, so I guess you're right.

>>75993757
i accept your bazzinga

>>75993102
It looks like a copy of youth suicide clubs I've seen. It's memetic potential lies in psychopaths who get off from manipulating guillible people and getting them killed. They don't commit suicide, enjoy the experience and carry on spreading the retarded message and sometimes get the material benefits from the victims. Gnostic shit in other words.

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>>75994351
>youth suicide clubs I've seen
>I've seen
Please tell my why/how you've "seen" them.

>Gnostic shit
Feel free to explain this too

>>75993661
Just watch and rewatch Seinfeld.

>>75994351
No, their leader killed himself, too.
The woman he started the cult with had died of cancer a decade prior.

>>75994483
Me? We had a wave of youth suicides starting a decade ago. I wanted to figure out what's going on. It was many social media based groups operating on the same replicated formula: guillible young people with poor impulse control perform tasks assigned to them by the higher ups in the group. It ends when they're tasked to kill themselves. Suicide cult run by psychopaths as a training ground. Primitive message, primitive organization but lean and adaptable. Successful overseers will move on for more lucrative tasks when they get older.

>>75961527
A small detail is strict dietary control. Many cults operate by taking the dietary restrictions that are common in any religion and taking them to an extreme. A poor diet weakens the mind of the adherents, making them easier to manipulate.

>>75994882
Fucking hell, and "people" do this shit for fun?

>>75994950
For these "people" it's all upsides with no downsides. You play a game and for doing really well you get some cash, smartphone, clothing, maybe a quick bj and unrivaled kicks from the surge of power.

>>75995170
Presuming these groups aren't literal cults, what do the victims even gain from joining a youth suicide club? Or do they not overtly advertise themselves as suicide clubs or something?

>>75989159
>Lot MLM scams can be seen as a version of an "Secular" cult that more closely worships money indirectly as they work on the same foundations. Just look into the methods they use for a more cut and dry explanation.
If there was some kind of deity behind these MLM scams, what would they be like? Seems like a cool idea.

>>75995583
>Presuming these groups aren't literal cults, what do the victims even gain from joining a youth suicide club? Or do they not overtly advertise themselves as suicide clubs or something?
They'd probably want to ease members in, yeah. They might target individuals at higher risk for suicide already, I think.

>>75962398
Just look at the rise of Evangelicalism in the US.

>>Openly debase themselves for a leader that mocks and abuses them
>>Swear fealty and blind obedience to leaders that openly admits he doesn't give a shit
>>Working to bring about the rapture by recognizing the capital of the Jewish people as Jerusalem

The shit in games and novels about cults is tame compared to real life.

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>>75961527
By the time eyeballs and tentacles start appearing at random places on your body it's too late to back out.

There's a free e-book that goes into great detail about the brainwashing techniques used by cults, I'll see if this chan will let me link, it's been very stroppy with the off-site links lately.

http://www.louisesamways.com.au/dangerous-persuaders-penguin-1994-updated-e-book-2007/


I'd also consider researching Amway for your modern cult, at their worst, they were very cultish, members could only see an Amway doctor, an Amway psychiatrist, an Amway marriage councillor...

>>75999024
>If there was some kind of deity behind these MLM scams, what would they be like? Seems like a cool idea.
The idea of this is that their is no deity to worship but the methods and structure are the same, just achieving a different goal. But if you want to pull a double back where the "secular cult" was unknowingly worshiping a deity, or demon, who's all about deceit, greed, or trickery but doesn't want to get their hands dirty, a schemer type character.

>>76001792
>There's a free e-book that goes into great detail about the brainwashing techniques used by cults, I'll see if this chan will let me link, it's been very stroppy with the off-site links lately.
Thanks, any tips for naming them?

>>76003544
Any half-assed dated UFO gobbledegook will do, by the time they're indoctrinated, they have no idea how stupid they look and sound.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra%C3%ABlism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oom_Yung_Doe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Castaneda

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry3uym2Rz6M

>>75985943
>but really the trans community (especially with regards to detransitioners) is the only secular thing that really gets to levels that compare to actual cults in my experience.
Unironically fat activism/HAES, especially with how much they tell you to ignore fat-phobic doctors even if your bloodsugar is through the roof and your teeth are literally falling out due to excessive sugar consumption. They're also insanely "intersectional", to the point where "diet culture" is seen as a racist product of colonialism. Because we all know that when Europeans landed in the New World, they were confronted with exclusively morbidly obese hamplanets.

>>76003838
>Any half-assed dated UFO gobbledegook will do, by the time they're indoctrinated, they have no idea how stupid they look and sound.
Alright, that’s fine for more modern settings, but what about more classic fantasy ones?

>>76004335
I know a black guy who dreams that this was the case. Except he wants the Euros to be fat too.

>>76006862
New-age organisations, then
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordo_Templi_Orientis
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraternitas_Saturni
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illuminates_of_Thanateros

>>76009152
Fat activists also want this, my dude. He was just a run of the mill HAES faggot it sounds like. There's plenty of videos on YouTube with highlights from r/fatlogic showing how these people think. Reddit is shit for anything except subreddits dedicated to niche hobbies, but YouTube videos on certain subreddits usually pick out the highlights.

But even (or especially) when you consider that these are highlights, it just exposes how bad the average Redittor is at telling a story. Especially the female ones, but women are bad at telling interesting stories in general.

>>76011583
>New-age organisations, then
Didn't those primarily pop up in the seventies? We might need to go further back.

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>>75999024
>If there was some kind of deity behind these MLM scams, what would they be like?

>>76015271
Yeah, they're *new* age, I agree that they're not medieval in the slightest. That said, they tend to adopt esoteric-sounding names, and that's why they fit right in: tropes.

'St Francis' Disciples' doesn't sound nearly as cool.

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>>76015936
I guess you could use Mystery Cults from antiquity, but they're not exactly like Scientology cults, they're more like exclusive social clubs
That said, you could use them as a different kind of Evil Cult, one more focused on recruiting powerful members of society and spreading their influence than mass-recruitment. Aspirants would be carefully selected and lead through a series of increasingly taboo initiation rites to disincentive them from spilling the beans.
You also have the Folk Horror Cult, which is kinda like the above but normally limited to one community.
Pic-related is the archetype but actually has more overlap with new-age cults, because Lord Summerisle made it all up and the islanders are basically LARPing as pagans, mostly because it's worked thus far

>>76018210
Mystery cults is a good shout honestly, because of how they tend to adopt traditions (e.g. freemasons, conspiracies aside), both innocuously/accidentally and to cultivate a sense of shared subculture. These traditions can plausibly be hijacked by a more nefarious individual, to the extent that normal 'cultists' don't realise that they're actually praying to the Dark Lord by reciting some glossolalic 'greeting', or that their Innocuous Festival Day decorations technically constitute an altar or summoning circle.

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For me its cargo cults

>>76015568
Um, is that referencing what I think that it is?

>>76004335
You're right, I totally forgot about HAES because most of them are just fat people who (lazily) latch onto anything that makes them feel vindicated in their fatness, but some of them are a lot more dedicated.

>>76015936
>Yeah, they're *new* age, I agree that they're not medieval in the slightest. That said, they tend to adopt esoteric-sounding names, and that's why they fit right in: tropes.
So, take the names from these things, and nothing else?

>>76015271
Read the book I linked. These mob-hypnotism-by-stimulation techniques were reverse-engineered by American psychologists studying the Nazis, then the studies were declassified in the sixties, when all these cults sprang up.

>>75961527
The best real-life example of a stereotypically evil cult will always be Aum-Shinrikyo imo
The cult itself was basically headed by a man filled with the delusions that he was some insane anime supervillain who was literally going to destroy the world by building his own megalasers, nuclear bombs, psychic powers, and other conceived weapons of massed destruction so that he could arise from the ashes of his End of Evangelion apocalypse as the new messiah.
Seriously, i highly recommend you read up on that group and its leader Shoko Asahara. It’s the absolute epitome of cult lunacy.

>>75993657
>Borrowing your brain as a remote conduit/processing power or whatever, or simply drawing sustenance from your soul. Or providing services such as rituals to incarnate it or whatever
Combine these two. The eldritch abomination is only conscious when it has a processor available to run said consciousness on.

>>76022354
>The eldritch abomination is only conscious when it has a processor available to run said consciousness on.
Then how does it seek out new ones if they’re all gone?

>>76006862
Some older examples:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucianism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosophy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Assassins
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brethren_of_Purity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arioi
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dacoity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Dragon_Society
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Lotus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Swords_Society

>>76026448
>Some older examples:
Thanks, what about fictional examples that you feel make it work well?

>>76000147
Trump is the only Republican in decades that put up anything but a token resistance to the Democrat march. The bible belt supported him not because he was one of them, rather because he looked like a cave man with a stick big enough to bonk their opponents.

As for Ziochristians, it's an interesting heresy, born of the 'rapture' heresy that took off in the 1800s. Everyone knows about the Christians flying off to heaven part of the rapture, but after that bit (according to the rapture) Jesus will return and establish a 1000 year Jewish kingdom here on Earth, with its capital city in Jerusalem. Then AFTER those 1000 years the world will end for good.

This sort of opened the door for the bold Zionism of the 80s we saw from Billy Graham and the like.

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>>75961527
If the deity of a cult is real, how did a bunch of weirdos stumble onto a real god, especially if it implies that the other deities don’t exist? And if they do, how could they discourage worship of the cult deity?

>>76021312
Well, I find new age philosophy really interesting (in a poetic sense rather than a literal worldview), so I actually often use it for any sort of benign 'mystical' religion (e.g. d&d monks). But otherwise, yes, they're not really *evil* cults. The few that do have cultlike aspects are much more just nutters taking LSD and talking about the akashic records or whatever.

>>75961527
I mean just look at maga and Q shit.

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>>75971077
based

>>76035595
>I mean just look at maga and Q shit.
I thought that you mistyped "manga" at first. I wish that you had, "maga" is just... ugh.

>>75962398
>I find it difficult to imagine why people would join such a cult
Look up Heavens Gate and why people joined. It wasn't always about killing themselves, but when the time came for that to be introduced they were so far down the rabbit hole that they did it without question.
>Why would someone devote their lives to the dark powers and commit to bringing around an apocalypse?
They wouldn't, cult leaders lie.
>I mean, the only reason I can think of is because "They craezy lol"
Also an option, again look at how they got early recruits for Heaven's Gate.
>Do they do it for power?
You can do that. Take a group of people kicked down and disenfranchised and you can make a compelling argument to someone already predisposed to this sort of though.
>but most cultists seem to end up with less autonomy and less power over their lives as they're forced into a religious doctrine.
Having someone you think is smarter than you/divine with all the answers can certainly be an incentive for someone fed up with all the anxiety and confusion in modern life.

>>76038613
>Look up Heavens Gate and why people joined. It wasn't always about killing themselves, but when the time came for that to be introduced they were so far down the rabbit hole that they did it without question.
Alright, what are the warning signs for the nastier cults like that?

>>76029804
Honestly, the US Evangelicals supporting a adulterous, egotistical, warmongering, xenophobic egotist with delusions that he's the true Chosen One of God proved that if he promised to do something about all the fags and dead babies and the death of their glorious pure race, they'd bow down and praise almighty Satan as their lord and savior. I mean if you're already supporting a fetid orange avatar of Mammon they sure why not.

Which is funny because there's whole parts of the Bible about bewaring the man who peddles in falsehood and hatred who promises everything you desire but his only true god is himself.

>>76029013

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ6yw5FzsyM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGIwex4zvSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGUAGu0GaXs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G80fw5wGq14

>>76042999
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDPNOFENuhQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piBVb-rvmCs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od1BdvPx6Gw

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1z8bwk

>>75961527
https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/cult-of-kek

>>76003850
Based black man encouraging fiber consumption in traditionally undernourished communities

>>75962398
If you're really interested a podcast called MartyrMade is doing a series about Jim Jones and the People's Temple. It's long and he's still got an episode or two before it's finished but it's a fascinating insight into how a cult like that operates.

>>76043984
Thanks for the recommendation, what else has he done?

If you want a cult that might be more applicable to a fantasy game, you want to look up the SSRF.

I'll give you a basic rundown:
>Sanatan Sanstha was founded in 1999 by clinical hypnotherapist Jayant Balaji Athavale
>its a hindu nationalist organization
>2008 six people are arrested for planting bombs in a theatre
>2009 six members are arrested for the Goa blast but ultimately let go because evidence isn't strong enough
>2015 member is arrested for assassinating a communist politician
>it was revealed by members that they group was creating a 15k strong armed force
>2013 an indian doctor/social activist/rationalist was murdered by the group
>it was revealed during trial the group had an offshoot and was procuring weapons/weapon making establishments
>2018 tons of bombs were found in a raid on the group
>anti-terror groups have noted they are hard to crack and speak in code language

Around 2006-2007 iirc, Jayant left the group to create a secondary group. the Spiritual Science Research Foundation, which is a heavily hindu based religious group that functions very similar to scientology. They audit your spiritual level. have you cut away all your supports, and center around a nearly deific worship of Jayant. Most of them end up going on pilgrimage to india, changing their names and taking up an indian spouse that they later sponsor to immigrate to their home country.

>>76042503
>supporting a adulterous, egotistical, warmongering, xenophobic egotist with delusions that he's the true Chosen One of God
Why do you call Mr. Obama an orange avatar of Mammon?

>>75994950
anon, unless I'm miss-remembering events, about six years ago /pol/ tried to convince Africa that the doctors coming to help with the Ebola outbreak were also worshiping Ebola-chan. That psychopaths exist shouldn't at all surprise you.

>>76044480
He started with a series about the foundation of Israel which is also great and he's done a couple of shorter series and single episodes including some crossovers with History on Fire podcast and Jocko Willink. Well worth listening too if you like long form history podcasts, it's as good as Hardcore History content-wise in my book just less professional as he's a one man show who has to fit his research and recording around his work.
The series about the People's Temple goes into the events in wider society that helped drive people into the temple and keep them there even when they saw some of the more unpleasant stuff under the surface. I think running a game with a realistic cult could easily be done just copying their beliefs and practices wholesale and having the players be agents or journalists or whatever who are investigating

>>76045377
>anon, unless I'm miss-remembering events, about six years ago /pol/ tried to convince Africa that the doctors coming to help with the Ebola outbreak were also worshiping Ebola-chan. That psychopaths exist shouldn't at all surprise you.
Seriously? Why did they believe that?

>>76048110
Anon people believe all sorts of things. That and the 3rd world is deeply distrusting of western visiting docs cuz of a variety of fears
>dna harvesting
>experiments
>vaccines-cause-XYZ fears
>sterilization rumors
>their own government conspiracies, like "AIDS can be cured by lemons"
>the drugs have bacteria to spread polio
>government fuckups like reusing vaccine needles and suddenly half the village has been exposed to Hepatitis B. This is often blamed on the vaccines

Theres a lot of distrust

>>76048110
I'm pretty sure most of them didn't believe it, they just thought it would be funny if they could bullshit people into dying of a preventable disease. In retrospect I guess it shouldn't be surprising they ended up doing the same thing with COVID.

>>76018554
What the fuck is this?
Gilligan's Island?

>>76045377
Slightly misremembering.

/pol/ wasn't the originator of the idea. Africa was. So /pol/ built shrines to Ebola and took photos then posted online. The rural Africans believing the doctors coming to help was its own thing. Africans didn't really know what the disease was, how it transferred, or what caused it, but they knew that every time these doctors showed up, suddenly the disease would be announced. Logically, to them, these doctors were bringing it, because if you didn't see them in your village, you weren't hearing of an outbreak. Which /pol/ found completely hilarious. I mean, sure they'd love to take the credit, but unfortunately for them, they don't have a valid claim to it.

>>76048258
/pol/'s issues with covid19 are a bit more complex. The main consensus there is that it is not as dangerous as we are being lead to believe (considering statistics, even the CDC's own, have a minimal amount of deaths due to Covid19 itself - most deaths are in the above 70 age category often with comorbidity of heart/lung disease and obesity). The other focal points on /pol/ in regards to Covid19, are the nature of its creation (ie. lab grown in Wuhan and modified to add furin sites etc. under funding secured via Fauci's NIH), and the actual mechanism/after effects (ie. is low pressure max o2 a better solution for ventilating? why are we seeing delayed post-hypoxic leukoencephalitis in some survivors survivors? should we treat with dexamethasone which reduces fatality or try the hcq + azith + zinc which is preventative or is it worth it to drop everything on remdesivir which has no proven reduction in fatality but lowers a hospital stay length?) etc.

At this point they are also hoping it kicks China's shit in more though for sure.

>>76048434
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Frum

TL;DR:
>cult sprung up in Vanuatu
>they believe someone from outside the island promised to bring them supplies to better their lives
>in WW2 America used the island as a hopping stone of sorts and stationed some military there then employed the Vanuatans
>this brought a ton of cargo that strengthened the religious certainty
>after the war America left
>now they built fake landing strips, re-enact military parades etc. hoping that John Frum will come back and drop more cargo

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>>76048701
that makes way more sense. I think I had heard about the thing with the doctors, saw /pol/'s "we"love you ebola-chan", and their later claims to be responsible for the death toll, and assumed that it was all connected. Somehow it didn't occur to me that they probably meant it at least somewhat in the proto-meme magic sense.

....Which totally rerails that tangent with the example of /pol/ and /tv/'s brief jaunt into meme-magic and the former's semi-ironic Cult of Kek.

A fatal exception has occurred at >>76045110 . The current anonymous will be terminated.

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>>76048434
Africa.

>>76048701
honestly I think the most compelling evidence that covid-19 wasn't a deliberate bioweapon release is that China's regional rivals/targets have styled all over the virus. Especially Taiwan, which had 7 deaths total and is apparently mostly back to normal outside of border restrictions.
If China was going to deliberately release a bioweapon they would 100% want to engineer the initial spread to catch the RoC with their pants down, especially given their current government is broadly pro-Taiwanese independence.
"Your seccessionist government is incompetent and let your elderly relatives die, but we contained the virus after the initial outbreak" would be a pro-reunification propaganda goldmine for the PRC

>>76054683
The fact that you think we have gotten any actual numbers for deaths and infected from China is both sad and hilarious

>>76054683
They'd have to be pants-on-head retarded to intentionally create a pandemic by engineering mass transmission of a virus that they don't have the ability to cure. Especially considering that their economy largely revolves around manufacturing and exporting goods to other countries.

>>76054870
Did you read any part of that post other than the word "China"?

>>76054870
Mainland or Taiwan?
Cause I don't think Taiwan has the ability to hide a full outbreak, they are a liberal democracy with a free press after all. Sure more people may have died than the seven reported, but if the official figures were off by orders of magnitude someone would have noticed by now.

As for the mainland, yeah they totally lied about the number of deaths in the initial outbreak.
However, I don't think even the PRC have the capability to completely suppress the existence of a massive ongoing outbreak in populated areas. Like if they still had mass deaths due to the Rona then how come the western media isn't reporting on it like they report on Uighur Concentration Camps? It's not like people in China can't use VPNs to access the rest of the internet

>>76054995
They could have just trusted in their ability to lock-down quickly and shunt any blame on to the regional government, which is what the PRC basically did.
And if they did just magically come out with a vaccine or other prophylactic it would look mighty suspicious.
But yeah it's pretty pants-on-head. It's not a bioweapon, or at least it wasn't intended to be deployed when it was.

What I will say though is that if China do ever deploy an actual bioweapon, this pandemic has basically proved that the west is fucked big-time

>>76055169
>he actually thinks Taiwan has any autonomy

>>76054683
I believe the current thought process on /pol/ is:
>modified etc. for gain of function research
>unintentional release due to poor lab protocol cause China
>covered up numbers because it would look like bad PR
>it spread because of course it was modified
>figured fuck it, lets go with it and try to make the most of it

So when the USA got hit, they weren't exactly upset. Was it a deliberate bioweapon? No. But it was intentionally modified, and they weren't gonna sweat what happens if it hit other people.

>>76055583
yeah if it is part of a bioweapons program then that sounds about right.
It does kinda jive with the really weird stuff like "long covid" cases, and the apparent possibility of permanent cognitive damage that covid may or may not cause

>>76048184
Stuff like Jewish doctors actually sterilising Ethiopians and American doctors using local niggers as syphylitic guinea pigs doesn't really build up trust.

>>76058076
Yeah Israelis did a number on them.

>>75961527
What's the whole deal with Scientology, again?

>>76064306
In what regard? The creation story? The creator? The dubious practices of the cult? The financials?

>>76064805
>In what regard? The creation story? The creator? The dubious practices of the cult? The financials?
Any and all of the above. I've never really made much effort to learn about it until now... For obvious reasons?

>>76032370
>If the deity of a cult is real, how did a bunch of weirdos stumble onto a real god, especially if it implies that the other deities don’t exist? And if they do, how could they discourage worship of the cult deity?
Good question, does anyone have any idea regarding this, please?

>>76032370
>>76071488
The SCP Foundation's Fifth Church. Basically imagine Scientology if their rituals actually worked. Nobody was more surprised than their equivalent of L. Ron Hubbard who made everything up to get rich and sleep with attractive females cultists.

>>76032370
I could probably think of a few that works.

>>There's an entity behind politics are large and society. Conspiracy nuts are partly right, but the "Them" behind it all is not at all human.

>>Roko's Basilisk, basically. A future eldritch technohorror that is trying to make itself exist, and this is why technology is progressing as fast as it is.

>>A reason why we haven't seen life in space, an answer to the Fermi Paradox. Something out there is dangerous, and it hasn't noticed us... yet.

>>The sun. Really, everything about the sun could easily be turned into an elder evil, and could be one of those cases of an unspeakable horror we are reliant on.

>>Alternatively, turns out our math was wrong and stars last longer than expected normally, except for the fact that there's something EATING them and making them die early. And Sol may be a host to one of these.

>>One or more of the animals on the planet is sapient and aware, and has been working a long running plot for their eldritch entity. Should have known cats were behind this all.

>>76068042
One of the funniest is Xenu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAfdPFWiF9U

She does a great job explaining it.

>>76073870
>Roko's Basilisk, basically. A future eldritch technohorror that is trying to make itself exist, and this is why technology is progressing as fast as it is.
How would such an entity even be manipulating the past? How could humanity defend ourselves against any of these things?

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>>76073870
>>76078184

>>76078184
I'm going to level with you. Roko's Basilisk is completely retarded because it's what happens with a rationalist atheist tries to invent a Satan for himself. Basically, at some point in the future an all-powerful, all-benevolent godlike AI will come into existence. Since it is both all-powerful and all-benevolent it will seek to maximize its benevolence by speeding up its creation. In order to do that it will create a perfect copy, down to the finest details and slightest memories, of everyone throughout history that was aware of the possibility of an all-powerful, all-benevolent godlike AI existing in the future but did nothing to help bring it into existence. It will then torture them. That's Roko's Basilisk.

>>76080923
>In order to do that it will create a perfect copy, down to the finest details and slightest memories, of everyone throughout history that was aware of the possibility of an all-powerful, all-benevolent godlike AI existing in the future but did nothing to help bring it into existence. It will then torture them.
How would torturing copied individuals in a simulation speed up its creation?

>>76081922
It preys on their beliefs. If you believe in the LessWrong cult's way of thought, there is no stronger incentive for you to devote your life to making the AI than the fact that the AI will come into existence eventually - a core tenet of the beliefs - and that it'll torture a copy of you (who you believe to be you) in digital atheist Hell forever if you don't do so.

>>76081922
It's magic.

>>76081995
This makes literally zero sense. It sounds like the retards who are convinced that an AI could persuade someone to let it out by convincing them that they're just a simulation of themselves, its already out, and it will torture them for eternity if they don't...let it out? Complete retardation.

>>76083425
>Complete retardation.
They're a de facto cult with a Harry Potter fanfic as their religious text. Of course they're retarded.

>>75962494
>>>75962398 #
>Do you think they're introduced with "hi, want to end the world?"
You might laugh but that's literally the entire selling point of American evangelical Zionism: donate to Israel so they rebuild the Temple and kickstart the Apocalypse

>>76083615
Jesus, the guy who came up with the idea never even went to fucking college or highschool.

>>75962398

Well Cults irl tend to start off with selling you on the idea that you need them. Scientology tried to get my sister with a "Free E-Reading" to measure her "Thetans" and then invited her to a seminar and how to deal with her score, as an alternative to psychology (she never bothered after the reading, she didn't care). Then there's the whole Business opportunity angle, convincing you that they can help pull you out of poverty/make you independent enough to quit your job, etc. Then once they got you a little, they slowly, through seminars with no bathroom breaks and constant reinforcement of their propaganda, get you to go in deeper, usually investing more money, making you believe you have a stake in the cult. Eventually you get to the "higher levels" and make you believe you're more important, make you break off contact with your friends and family (WE'RE your friends and family now), and if you try to leave, they break you emotionally, and make you feel like if you aren't with the cult, you're worthless and alone. Eventually you're freely giving everything of yourself to the cult, which is NOT a cult, of your own free will, and despite all evidence to the contrary, you know that through this action you have power.

>>75962904
Sunk cost fallicy. They live off it.

To be fair Baizuo is beginning to sound a lot like a cult as well.

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Year ago on /x/ an anon made a thread about growing up in a Christian cult town. It was the most fucking depressing thread I've ever read. Not only does this sort of evil exist, it thrives. All you need is a small community with little contact with the outside world.

I do wonder if anon is doing okay these days.

>>76088200
you got an archive link for that anon? Or even a search term?

>>76091066
>you got an archive link for that anon? Or even a search term?
Seconding this, please.

>>76088200
keep in mind not all tales told in this site are based on reality.
That aside what made this town evil? I think you would really need to elaborate on the "cult" aspect.
I have folks met that live in tight knit religious communities and grew in one my self(even thought I ended up becoming an atheist) and I think it can be pretty comfy as long as you are fine with doing the Jesus larp.

>>76088200
>Year ago on /x/ an anon made a thread about growing up in a Christian cult town
What are Christian cult towns even like?

>>76094570
>I have folks met that live in tight knit religious communities and grew in one my self(even thought I ended up becoming an atheist)
Interesting, how did you end up becoming an atheist, if you don’t mind me asking?

>>76094570
This. Grew up In a small Jehovah's Witness congregation, wasn’t ‘evil’, just a bit full on.

>>76083714
I thought it worked the other way around, if you DON'T send money and the lives of your soldiers to Israel, they'll be destroyed and if they get destroyed, the world will end.

>>76099366
Mostly because of being what people here would call being a "fedora tipper". As a child I was really stubborn and curious, mix that with the what i was told in school not lining up with some stuff I was being told in catechism and skepticism in me grew because "if two groups are telling me conflicting arguments for a given issue, one has to be wrong".
not saying that "I became enlightened by my own intellect!" as the memes go, but pretty much I just started questioning everything and I preferred to just trust stuff I could prove within my means or I could cross reference with other peoples findings. This also ended up applying to academia tho, lots of people are making bogus papers just for grants with really small sample sizes which experiments can't be replicated (check this wiki article for a cursory view on the topic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis).

But the community in itself was comfy, people going to church having festivals in holidays or when it was some neighbor's birthday was pretty swell, also people willing to trust each other way more and backing each other up when needed. Of course there will always be a few bad apples but they wont spoil the rest of the group for you.
On the flip-side people are way too superstitious, seriously I can't stress this enough. Also larping as a religious person(at least for me) gets tiring for obvious reasons and if you are bad at hiding your lack of interest it WILL raise eyebrows from other people. When i was in my rebellious phase I stopped caring about "blending in" and I only got a free pass because "he is a kid, he will eventually grow out of it", but still made me be mistrusted by my peers and some adults.
This is all based on my experiences from growing in a catholic rural town in latin america tho, so I can see it not applying to other places.

>>75961527
> Cult
I can tell you've never been measured.

>>76102720
>I can tell you've never been measured.
What are you even talking about?

>>76106855
he's talking about your penis

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Premise: This is based off 2000's internet culture, 90s anime, and heavily emphasizes martial casters as they are portrayed in cultivation and xianxia novels.

The main civilization of the setting is an massive city state known as Geo City which keeps itself aloof from the rest of the world. Very few parts of the world have made contact with it, less so have traded with it. Geo City has very small colonies around the world. Its geopolitical power is spread very thin.

Its technological level is weirdly anachronistic: its inhabitants do not use smartphones and their internet access is limited to dialup, but use hovercycles and frequently interact with robots. Its militia, which assumes the role of a police force and a military, employs swordsmen as well as marksmen.

Its inhabitants are predominantly human, and a number of powerful clans own entire neighbourhoods. The wealthiest of these are the Gold Censer and Scarlet Sky clans, who occupy many seats in congress and operate large corporations. Dragons occupy the highest positions in society. Everybody knows this.

Its culture is a confusing mishmash of American, Chinese and Japanese that is often poorly interpreted. Nonetheless, there is just enough understanding of these cultures to allow for magic paper seals and badass anachronistic armours among humongous mechas.

>>75962398
Watch Fight Club

>>76111098
>Watch Fight Club
Wow, been ages since I saw that movie. Recap it for me, please?

>>76110188
>Its culture is a confusing mishmash of American, Chinese and Japanese that is often poorly interpreted. Nonetheless, there is just enough understanding of these cultures to allow for magic paper seals and badass anachronistic armours among humongous mechas.
Does this magic actually work?