>>74587014
>Duty and honor conflicting with personal feelings
>kimonos
>this slightly alien feeling of strangeness you can't quite explain
>this >>74587050
>this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKMw2it8dQY

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>>74587050
Yeah, but I mean besides the obvious stuff like Samurai and Ninjas.

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>>74587014
Fundamentally, the aesthetics.

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>>74587050
THE SAUCE. GIVE ME THE WRETCHED SAUCE

Alternatively; try not to do what L5R did (remember half of a single samurai film you missed the point of and then build your lore around CCG Logic), or do some of your own research on time periods and then heavily incorporate fantasy elements, such as magic and monsters.

A thematic note; most monsters in Japan are lumped under ghost stories (most of the generalized name for “monster” means “ghost” or “haunt” for example), so think about incorporating horror elements into how you present monsters. Magic also has a similar presentation as well; it’s almost a cliche in Japanese stories that a ghost or monster can only be opposed by an onmyōji (Wizard).

>>74587147
literally any Hitomi Tanaka video ever

>>74587147
Do you seriously not recognize Hitomi Tanaka?

>>74587157
What's wrong with l5R? genuine question as I was thinking about picking it up and trying to run a game for my current group after our D&D campaign is over

That Edo period aesthetic
Duty vs Glory vs right/wrong
Scheming courtiers
Honour and etiquette
Monsters and spirits aren't always beatable, some time they need placating or outright fleeing from

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When I think of feudal Japan, I think of a huge jarring contrast between order/civilization and brutality. A samurai practices calligraphy or carefully arranges a rock garden in his free time, but carries a special bag for severed heads when he goes off to war.

You also have to ham up the island mentality. There’s a sort of natural isolation and feeling of uniqueness. Maybe you’re aware of not-China and not-Portugal but they feel like they’re on another planet or something.

Oh, and include lots of weird monsters and spirits based on Buddhist and Shinto thought.

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>>74587157
I was envisioning something larger than life. Set in a chaotic giant samurai wars but with political intrigue from outside forces trying to peer in. Thinking of including some horse-nomad Ainu types, fantasy white people trying to make fortunes off of trade and buying up what bits of land they can, and a fantasy China that's off in the background stirring the pot.

>>74587220
>Bitches are are 10 miles apart
La creatura.

>>74587014
Everything that's in Sekiro, Nioh and the Wano Arc of One Piece

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>>74587157
Further info on magic; onmyōji are practically the only existing cultural analogue to western-style wizards anywhere in the world.
Like Hermeticism-style wizards (a basis for D&D), their discipline is a weird mixture of religion and scientific learning (albeit scientific learning based on Chinese elements and stuff rather then the classic Four Elements and whatnot), they have an iconic outfit (the tall hat and long robes with huge billowy sleeves pictured here), they cast spells that make fire and lightning and summon magical servants, they use magic scrolls in the form of those paper talismans you see them throwing everywhere, and they are frequently very weird or mysterious.

The whole “shugenja=Wizard/priest” is a pretty bad translation; a shugenja is actually much, MUCH closer to a D&D Monk since they’re supposed to be ascetic warrior-priests who live in the mountains and train to get superhuman physical powers.

>What do you think the core elements for a 'fantasy japan' setting are?
1. Being set in Japan
2. Having fantasy components

> AS I LAY HERE DYING
>EVERYTHING WILL BE OKAY!!
>ALL THESE YEARS I'VE THROWN AWAY

>>74587188
It’s not actually bad, and I like it.

But John Wick, despite his love of Japanese stuff, was about as educated on the subject as any early 90’s white guy who loved Japanese samurai movies, which is to say he was wrong about all of it.
The Clans are cool, but are so hyper-specialized that they make D&D monocultures look fucking diverse, and they have some really poorly understood ideas of how Samurai culture worked, and badly mix elements of Heian-era culture (12th century), and the era of samurai more familiar to people who watch movies (17th century culture, which is about 500 years of cultural changes). He also seems to think that Japan used wooden armor because “they liked the aesthetics of it more then metal”, which is kind of insane, and also even weirder about katana because he seems to think that “parrying” was something Japanese fencing doesn’t teach you. The setting talks about the greatness of honor and duty and it’s importance, but then bases combat off of Seven Samurai (apparently the only jidaigeki film Wick ever watched) which is actually a DECONSTRUCTION of samurai films and was about how honor was kind of useless and self-destructive concept for the samurai. Finally, the Shadowlands (the bad guys of the setting) is almost literally just Chaos from 40k with the serial numbers filed off, which clashes heavily with the Japanese aesthetics because it’s definitely a more western “Barbarians at the gate” style idea of fantasy.

It’s basically got a lot of really bad understanding of how different Japanese stuff worked, and whenever confronted with it the writing team always doubled down three times as hard just to be obstinate.

That said, my house still plays it and shifts the timeline ahead five centuries to adjust it to be more internally consistent:

>>74587220
This fucking bitch, why does a low grade porn game have such decent waifu material.

>>74587438
>not even haiku
commit sudoku

>>74587220
I can give you a lot of ideas since I ran a D&D campaign like this for years if you want?

>>74587445
thanks

>>74587262
Unironically these, Nioh and Sekiro especially. How they treat magic and monsters (as something scary, barely of this world, and hard to kill) is very iconic of Japanese folklore, and how the heroes defeat them not always through magic of their own but just by being a sheer badass through discipline and physical training is very common to those stories.

>>74587464
Not OP, but I’d like to hear of this.

My Not-Japan for my game was just running together different ideas until they fitted vaguely together.

Took the L5R, broke up the "great clan" nonsense, put them on islands, wound the aesthetic back to 1200s (later did some research about the period) and reorganized them so the spooky problem was everywhere and came from Yokai kingdoms, where the psychical D&D monsters were but lots of ghostly spirits too.
And then added a third faction of Emeshi nature worshipers because I could. So the archipelago was divided between Samurai + Ninja, Monster-territory and Princess Mononoke-meets Pokemon.

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>>74587014

>Social class system where the warrior caste straddle between being nobility and highly trained hobos
>The Emperor is generally divorced from actual day to day politics but is literally descended from a God
>Speak of Gods, gods and spirits everywhere. EVERY. FUCKING. WHERE
>Duty onto death
>Big tiddy concubines/housewives/ninjas/yokai as per >>74587050
>Guns

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I would either go with poetic warriors where peace is the most peaceful ans war the most brutal or have it be like the dying old west.
With the first part, samurai were supposed to be efficient killers and brutal head hunters while also being poets and learned. Peaceful areas should be bright and cheerful with cherry blossoms and the areas not peaceful should be beyond brutal, like post WWI German Expressionism art.
The second way of doing it is like a dying old west. Wars are long behind most samurai and now some just wander around looking for odd jobs to do. They're respected individuals but feared ans loathed for how much death they cause.

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>>74587521
Okay here’s some highlights
>Ninjas
In “Ninpochō” (Ninja Stories/Ninja Scrolls) in Japanese pop culture ninjas are fucking insane. The training is almost always described as hellish and brutal, and something nearly all shinobi, even the good guys, have in common is basically the acceptance of the idea that all life is inherently cheap. Think the stereotypical “black Ops hardass” in medieval gear and you got it; his training and life and experiences have made him cold, hard. He might be a hero and mean well, but he often so casually accepts the brutality of his lifestyle that it weirds people out. Side note; sometimes ninja superpowers are from training, but usually stuff like that is merely physical skills (like stealth and superhuman agility or strength), but the more magical-stuff is almost always a result of weird breeding programs to make X-Men-like inborn powers. The downside to this is a lot of the more superpowered ninjas are portrayed as basically being freaks of nature; watch Ninja Scroll and you get a VERY good grasp of Ninpochō stories, hence the title of the gun.

>>74587014
Weird fuckin yokai

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>>74587445
You seem to know your stuff- in your opinion what would be fun stuff from the history of Japan to mix and match if you wanted to have some anachronisms in? Only as much as you see with typical western fantasy.

If you want a demonic hell infested Japan, look up the Jingoku Zoshi or "Hell Scrolls." They were made when the Japanese thought the world was gonna end

>>74587014
Outside of just aesthetics, there are three important things about the Japanese you must consider in terms of mentality and society that you must include.

First, western culture has a sort of mentality where is you practice a whole bunch you will eventually get as good as you will ever get. More or less, you have an upper limit to your abilities.
For the Japanese, there is NO such thing as an upper limit. Period. Through hard work anything is possible, and if someone is better it's because they work harder. If your rival practices for six hours a day, you can practice for seven hours a day and you'll be better.
It's bullshit, of course, but it works amazingly for those who can excel.

Second, job is status. This one's a little more obvious and a little more similar to the West, other than the ordering. Thanks to Confucius, classical Japan orders their society based on how much you contribute, ie if you disappeared how fucked would we be. Obviously samurai are on top, but the peasants and other workers are a higher social status than even the richest of merchants. And on that note, samurai is a title, not a job. They're all trained to fight, but fighting isn't their job.

Third, they love the three B's: booze, banging, and baths. Once the work day is over, there is nothing they fucking love more than getting drunk and going to a bathhouse or taking a personal bath and talking about sex. Fucking best thing ever.

Other than that, basically everything else that has been covered.

>>74587014
You're gonna want to read up on the various types of monsters, ghosts, and demons they've got. There's some real weird shit in there that could be fun to play around with
You need to somehow represent the idea of someone autistically training so hard at one thing that they gain superhuman skill in it (e.g. swordsman that can effortlessly deflect bullets)
Magic is not like your typical DnD fare, it's often far more ritualistic and involves a lot more preparation than just "oh I think I'll pick these spells for today"

>>74587803
To add about merchants:
Fuedal Japanese lords and samurai hated merchants. Merchants were seen as people who acquired wealth by the money of others as opposed to hard work. The government would limit merchants status by
>Doing large debt forgiveness to all samurai as a way to fuck over merchants who pretty much owned samurai through loans and debt
>Making merchants unable to build their houses taller than a samurais house. This caused many merchants to build comically long houses as a way of compensating.
I could see merchants in a Japanese fantasy setting being very conniving and wicked but always outdone by the samuai through the samurai simply working more than them.

>>74587147
How old are you?

>>74587956
Weirdly sounds like european anti-Semitism, minus the semites.

You know on that note- what about the rest of the Japanese middle class? Could they even be described to exist? If not, could one make a setting where an element is the rise of a middle class as was seen in the European Renaissance?

>>74587755
Firstly; put in Guns.
Japan LOVED their fucking guns, could get enough of them. There is a nearly 100% chance that any samurai-themed thing you’ve ever seen takes place during or after the usage of guns in samurai warfare. The restrictions against guns you see in samurai shit stems from the strict rules against guns in the Edo Period; only the shogunate could produce more guns as a method to control the daīmyo, but during the proper Civil Wars period everyone wanted guns.

Secondly; the Emperor was basically a joke in Japanese history since forever. There’s also kind of different words for the Emperor; the Tennō is the Japanese Emperor, but the title literally means “Son of Heaven” and it has more delight implications then political ones. The proper title for an Emperor is “Mikadō”, which is basically just “supreme ruler”.

Thirdly; for centuries and centuries Japan struggled internally with Barbarian tribes that were basically their equivalent to our Native Americans. There used to be like over a dozen different ethnic groups in Japan but the current remaining ethnic group, the Yamato, basically exterminated them all. Incorporating these barbarian tribes well after their extermination could be interesting; think Ashitaka from Princess Monokoe, he’s supposed to be a prince from one of the last holdouts of these tribes.

>>74588114
I know about the Ainu, although I don't know much about them. I was thinking of splitting them into 2/3 groups that are considered 'outside' the main samurai war. A horse-nomad group in a nothern-plains region akin to Sakhalin, and a mountains forest dwelling group. And then there'd be some tropical islands that are akin to Okniawa/Polynesia as well.

Hows this for an idea- the not!China has invented guns and canons. Most of the Samurai want to use them, but the Emperor/Shogun has forbidden importing them from not!China. Entire not!White People who buy the guns from not!China, and sell them at a markup to the Samurai in exchange for some trading posts across the islands.

>>74588075
Turns out most cultures didn't particularly like merchants for most of history.
I wonder why that could be.

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>>74588183
Also big titties.

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>>74588192
I mean I doubt it's due to ancient socialism, or else there'd be more violent overthrow of monarchs, rather than switching them out for new families.

>>74588075
>Weirdly sounds like european anti-Semitism, minus the semites.
The difference is European culture had peasants as the lowest sort of (barely qualifies as) people. Japanese had that above merchants.

>>74587080
>Samurai and Ninjas
Why just one Samurai?

>>74588183

Japan’s gun design came from Europe, started with the Portuguese.

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>>74588245
Not really. In medieval europe you had three classes- the nobility, the church, and then everyone else. Merchant families became a 'middle class' because they were in the 'everyone else' category but had large ammounts of money. It was only the virtue of having money that made them have any political clout, as it literally bought influence.

>>74587014
Play l5r

>>74587755
Some more fun stuff;
Japan doesn’t really have an equivalent to Orcs and goblins (which is why in all Japanese media they call orcs and goblins using English loan words), but oni (ogres) are a close equivalent to ours. Oni can be good or bad (usually bad) and can be dumb or smart (usually the smart ones are leaders and have great magical powers), but they’re usually portrayed as being different from other sorts of Yōkai in that oni are always flesh and blood. Very tough, very strong flesh and blood but still totally murderable by a sword; heroes like Yamato-dake (Prince Yamato) and Yoshitsune fight ogres all the time in folklore about them.

Differentiate between the Mountains and the Plains; flatlands and riverlands and coastlines are where the humans live and fight and war and stuff. It’s dominated by human politics. Mountains are where the strange shit happens; monsters and ninja and demons (who due to their close proximity to the mountains seem to always fight/know more about monsters) and spirits are ALWAYS in the mountains and forest. You can’t go through any rural parts of Japan and not hit two or three ghost stories from the region.

> Most of the Samurai want to use them, but the Emperor/Shogun has forbidden importing them from not!China. Entire not!White People who buy the guns from not!China, and sell them at a markup to the Samurai in exchange for some trading posts across the islands.

That’s almost literally what happened, Japan first encountered explosives and guns after running into the Mongols that conquered China and though “we want some of that shit”.

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>>74588293
The plural of samurai is samurai.
>>74588320
I know, but this is me making up a setting.
>>74588322
Also please ignore that picture- I'm hopping back and forth between two threads- that pic was meant for the 'weird world war' thread.

>>74588328
read the thread for an explanation as to why that's a no no

>>74587014
Big titty geishas that are way lewder than their IRL counterparts.

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>>74588349
Alright cool, using that idea. I've seen some works use the word 'gaijin' to describe the role of white people, or any non-asians being in Japan, i know the word just means foriegner, but would that work as a 'class' name, or is there a better one?

I like the idea of Oni, however in general I'm not sure how to approach racial makeup for the setting. I think I'd be remiss not to use cute-catgirls at all though. I'm okay with the idea of them having a supernatural origin, but in general I want to take a low-fantasy approach to things.

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>>74587641

I say it's the best way to handle it.

>>74587014
>Warring states
This is the most fundamental. There is no period in Japanese history more romanticized by Japan than the Sengoku Jidai. The land should have a figurehead emperor who goes largely unmentioned and be under the rule of a military government dominated by whatever feudal clan takes the capital.

>The tides of war create monsters
Clan territories shifting with every battle means that there are villages and sites of old battles filled with corpses, and the spiritual impurities of so much bloodshed, death and agony are what gives rise to a lot of the more violent monsters.

>The world is magical, as is everything in it
The notion that the natural and spiritual worlds overlap and directly relate to each other is very important here.

>Important enough people are essentially demigods.
There's a reason Oda Nobunaga is so often depicted as the Great Demon Lord of the Sixth Realm.

>>74588183
On Daimyō; it’s tempting to think of daimyō as “Dukes and Barons” and the Japanese equivalents of European nobility, but actually they SUPPLANTED those people. Daimyō were very much basically warlords.
Unlike European nobility all Daimyō officially held the same rank, which was part of the problem; if the only thing differentiating them was how much land and military power they controlled there was no rules about pecking order and inheritance of land and power. In essence, European nobility had a hierarchy they sort of stuck to because that hierarchy determined much of their power, but a Daimyō literally had as much power as he could get away with taking with military force, leading to the unending Civil Wars period; there’s dozens of stories of an almost literal nobody who was nonetheless a gifted strategist becoming incredibly powerful almost overnight because he won a battle and took all the other guy’s shit. Only later after a long peace was there kind of a pecking order among the Daimyō and it was enforced through a nearly police-state like regime the Tokugawa Shogunate put together; a big theme of early Tokugawa-era stories is that any one thing could set off the civil wars all over again because many lords didn’t even WANT peace.

>>74587147
You have to be 18 to post here...

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>>74588114
>for centuries and centuries Japan struggled internally with Barbarian tribes that were basically their equivalent to our Native Americans. There used to be like over a dozen different ethnic groups in Japan but the current remaining ethnic group, the Yamato, basically exterminated them all.
That's a nice kingdom you got there. It'd be a real shame if something skeleton-related happened to it...

>>74587014
Yokai, shinto. Ur mom as a central piece of the setting

>>74587014
Aside from the wonderful advice in >>74587803, a definite core element for a "Fantasy Japan" setting is to try and incorporate either actual yokai into the setting, or do more "Japanese-centric" takes on your standard beastfolk and demihumans.

Frankly, Japanese mythology is full of animals and spirits and monsters that interact with humans in not always malevolent ways, and often they're presented as having their own society that in many ways mirrors or mimics human society. Doing the "D&D thing" but replacing elves, dwarves, gnomes and halflings with kitsune, tanuki, sapient golems and korobokuru is perfectly legit for a fantastical Japan.

>>74587364
Based, finally someone who understands my leprechauns vs smurfs japan conquest campaign

>>74588410
>i know the word just means foriegner
Actually the word kind of means “foreign savage” and is actually pretty rude; the phrase has deliberate implications that someone outside of your land is “less” then you. You don’t hear it used in modern Japan that much.
> I think I'd be remiss not to use cute-catgirls at all though.
Sadly I can’t give you any real myth or folklore for them because basically they don’t exist whatsoever in folklore. You’re on your own there.
Kitsune, Fox-people, do exist but suffice to say they do NOT work the way they do in anime. I’ll go into detail about them on my next post.

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>>74588434
And, naturally, you can't forget tits.

One of the best parts of fantasy Japan is that they probably have a folklore monster for just about any idea you have

>>74587803
To further on this, the japanese are absolutely autistic about being proper and polite.
They may hate your guys and be fucking you over, but they will be completely and utterly polite and smiling while the do it.

>>74588577
If you want catpeople you could always just go the Nioh route and make a cat yokai humanoid just 'cause

>>74588075
>>74588192
I mean, it's basically said already but it's because merchant's can get really really rich without doing any of the work. Everyone who has to do a ton of hard labor despises that.

In Europe they gave these jobs to the Jews because everyone hates them already, so why not give them the job that everyone hates (and good Christians can't do), and in Japan they had extremely strict sumptuary laws against the merchant class.

>>74588577
Nekomata are close.

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>>74588577
Yeah, a lot of translations I see of japanese vtubers uses the word 'overseas' more, which I guess they can get away with, since technically everyone is overseas from their perspective- do they just not have a nice word for foriegner? Either way, would it work as a (social) class name?

Anyway, from what I know most 'animal-folk in japan' are animals that shapeshifted into humans- so I figure I might be able to circle that square by giving them an exclusive magic ability to shapeshift into animals. Though I think it'd have to be something they unlock through training.

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>>74587014
Music

>>74588633
Please watch the Yakuza 0 cutscene that introduces Majima for the best example of this i have ever seen. Majima is speaking to a man who socially outranks him (a major executive in a pharma company), and speaks with impeccable politeness, deference and timeless grace, even making sure to clearly and slowly enunciate his name. On one hand, this is a very polite thing to do for someone who outranks you, as it saves them the potential embarrassment of you having to correct them for mispronouncing your name. On the other hand, he is also calling the man an idiot and subtly suggesting that he hates him.

feudalism but less mind numbingly christian

>>74588672
No, that's really not true. Sure, that's what some cultures say, but we have other cultures at different times venerating mechants, or business men as 'hard workers' who earn their fortune. It's especially untrue that christian peasants gave more than two fucks. Jews didn't work middle class jobs because they were 'dirty' proffessions- maybe you can have an exception with banking, but that was religious prohibition- one that was repealed anyway in the Renaissance anyway. Jews were given middle class jobs because those jobs gave them enough money to live autonomously- you know what happens to a bunch of jewish peasants? Some asshole is going to get into his head he can burn their fields for being jewish and recieve no surprisal. You had several ghetto burnings throughout history, and that was with the jews living there being in the middle class. The money they earned was pretty much the only reason why they could survive as a culture- same in the muslim nations- most christians eventually converted to islam as they couldn't pay the tax other religions had to over time- though many muslim majority nations have christian minorities to this day.

>>74588075
Merchants tend to be hated in any society because they take away power from whatever government existed/s. Europe hated them for taking away power from the Church, the Romans hated them because merchants brought luxury goods from other lands that robbed them of potential gain, Japan hated them because they could in theory take control of the samurai (hence why debt wiping happened), and even today Disney has single handedly fucked copywrite laws to save their mouse from becoming public domain.

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Kitsunē in Japanese folklore are kind of weird; they are definitely not normal flesh and blood creatures though, unlike ogres. From a practical standpoint their closest equivalent is a werewolves. Nearly every country in East Asia has stories about cunning, cruel foxes who hide in human shape and eat men’s livers (just like werewolves often did). In Japan however there’s some changes; firstly, the kamī Inari (basically a deity of farmers and rice growing) was VERY popular and foxes were her messengers leading to a mixture of some foxes being the classical Asian “murderous shapeshifter” and some being “helpful messengers”, so kitsune became a sort of “either/or” trickster figure instead of pure evil. Good foxes are often called “zenkō” (good fox), and evil ones “yakō”.
A weird note; kitsunē doesn’t mean “magical fox”, it literally just means “a fox”, because literally all foxes were supposed to be like this. They remain normal until they reach about a century and grow their second tail, at which point they become magical beings. For every century they grow another tail they grow wiser and more powerful until they become “Tenkō”, or “Heavenly Foxes” with nine tails. Tenkō are generally supposed to be very wise and magically powerful (literally omniscient), and I can’t think of any that are actually evil, though all are dangerous. Tenkō always have golden blonde fur/hair for some reason.
Kitsunetsuki (“Fox-taken/possessed”) is another kind; some foxes possess women somehow and turn them into but cases. These guys are almost straight werewolf analogies, but women.

A note on gender; kitsunē are almost always depicted as taking a feminine shape in disguise (a woman wandering alone at night could be a fox in disguise), but there’s never any indication that female is their only gender; when they are changed in fox shape in folklore they rarely use gender-specific pronouns because as animals they wouldn’t need to.

>>74588633
Great point.
Going even more into that, they have an extremely detailed set of customs that they all just follow. For example, if you're out for drinks, the lowest ranking guy must serve everyone who ranks above them, and you are supposed to even keep the rim of your glass below everyone who outranks you when you cheers.
Also if you're walking down the road and your scabbard touches another samurai's scabbard you are obliged to duel. That's why you walk (and drive) on the left in Japan, not on the right.

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>>74588612
I found this asshole: the Kamikiri. Also known as that jerk who cuts people's hair when they least expect it. Imagine taking a dump, getting up and realizing that somebody cut off your fancy topknot. What a fucking asshole.

Then you have other monsters like that guy who runs up to you so that he can moon you, showing off that his anus is actually an eye. Fucking jackass, I just wanted to go for a jog and then you ruined my day, how the fuck am I supposed to explain this shit to my wife? Oh wait, she's too busy not having a face, along with the rest of the town. Fucking yokai man.

>>74588693
Nekomata are literally just cats. They sometimes can take human shape, but most of them are just large cats in shape.

>>74587014
Bad japanese, poetry, MANLINESS and Hot Blood, lots of guns, duels, really stupid yet well-presented monsters, lots of appreciation for fleeting beauty, conniving and inscrutable slimeball villains, honest but brutal villains, conniving and inscrutable slimeball "allies", and a general understanding that life is cheap but honor ain't.

>>74587188
They also invented a bunch of shit whole-cloth, like the Nezumi and "bakemono" literally being WHF Skaven and Goblins warped into Japan.

>>74588849
A cat is fine too

>>74588789
Well that's actually really good to know. Thanks for that!
Honestly, weirdly, medieval Europe is my weakest point historically.

Honestly, just go watch some Taiga dramas like Ryomaden or Shinsengumi.

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>>74588807
Christianity didn't have a problem with merchants. Some go so far as to argue that Protestantism created the conditions for capitalism, but I find that to be bullshit. Christianity didn't particularly care one way or the other for merchants. You also have wealth gospel idiots today who claims that God loves rich people, but we should also keep in mind that when Jesus said that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to go into heaven, what he said isn't something that can just be applied to merchants, but also nobility- and christianity had zero problems with the idea of nobles being in charge of society.

I'd even call myself a socialist, but I think a lot of this is applying modern economic schema's and morales to where they don't belong.
>>74588832
So you think my idea here >>74588708
Could work?
>>74588883
People tend to gloss over it because we kind of consider it to be 'default'. I took some classes specifically on medieval history- I wouldn't say the stuff is groundbreaking, but it is an area where a lot of people assume they're experts when they aren't.

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>>74588410
>I think I'd be remiss not to use cute-catgirls at all though.

Call them Nekomata.

>>74588832
I would like to add that while all kitsune grow tails and become more powerful independently of whether they’re yako or zenko, only zenko can ascend to the status of celestial messengers and shed their physical bodies in order to ascend

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>Tengū
I love these guys.
Tengū are literally “mountain goblins”, but goblin in the old folklore sense. They are universally very tall, and have superhuman agility and strength. They can be good or bad, but usually mischievous tricksters; Yoshitsune was said that he learned much of his superhuman battle skills by studying under a Tengū, because Tengū are seemingly universally huge badasses. You have two types of Tengū; karasu-tengu (crow Tengū) who have bird faces and are often weaker, and Great Tengū (who have the human face with the long nose and are traditionally always named for the mountain they claim as home). Yet another “difficult to determine gender” sort of creature; they tend to have masculine bodies but are not referred to in masculine pronouns. You see this a lot with yokaī in general; since they aren’t flesh and blood beings gender kind of is irrelevant to them in a lot of cases, because that’s part of procreation and a lot don’t have any way to do that.
They just kind of exist.

>>74588851
There is at least one humanoid rat yokai that I'm aware of - I can't recall his name, I think it translated as "Iron Toothed Rat", but he was a false priest who was condemned to return as a rat-man after death and defile sacred scrolls...

>>74588708
>do they just not have a nice word for foriegner?
Gaikokujin. lit, one from a foreign kingdom (which implies you're civilized, rather than a savage). Problem is it sounds too much like the slur AND it's a bit awkward-sounding. In online chat it's really common to use server abbreviations (NA, JP, BR/SA, EU, ME, etc.) as a quick shorthand.

>>74588982
Why do people like this? So fucking dumb

>>74588851
Nezumi literally have nothing in common with skaven besides being humanoid rats. Nezumi are some of the few decent and friendly creatures in Rokugan, and in many ways are better people than the Rokugani themselves.

>>74588672
This isnt true.
Plenty of Christians were merchants.
Its just early Church laws forbid moneylending and collecting interest (aka banking) so Jews did it because they weren't Christians.
It isn't that Christians didn't WANT to be bankers- Knights Templar, fucking Medicis in Italy immediately jumped on board as soon as they got permission to from the Church.

>>74589032
Tesso, I think is what they call those guys.

If you like skeletons, consider the Gashadokuro. These guys are kickin' rad: giant skeletons who bite off people's heads to drink their blood and can turn invisible.

>>74589033
>BR
Hue hue

>>74589051
Do what, exactly? Correlate anime catgirls with shapeshifting Japanese cat monsters?

>>74588328
L5R is pretty much nothing like japan though, it heavily borrows large chunks but it's a distinctly different beast

>>74587014
At some point in your campaign you need to play the Kabuki "YOOOOOO" sound effect. Core flavor element.

>On Demons
Yōkai aren’t demons, firstly. They can be good or bad or dangerous and often are mostly just fucking weird as hell, but they’re more like the fair folk; very alien to us overall, not necessarily malicious.

But since demons are awesome as villains Japanese frequently adopted them from Western shit; they are usually called “Akūma” (Evil/Devil Race) or “Ma-jin” (Sorcerous Men) if they’re more human-ish. There’s lots of different permutations on the theme, but nearly universally are these sorts of beings evil; they thrive on bloodshed and cruelty, possess humans and murder and do all that good old fashioned demon shit. They probably have a Demon Lord leading them somewhere around there. Fuck that guy.

>>74588982

Yeah, Historical folklore isn't as nice anon.

>>74589051
>waaah, it looks like a human in cat cosplay
Yeah. It's a cat in human cosplay. Dumbass furry, learn your mythology.

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>>74589032
The priest was a special case - he deliberately starved himself to put a death-curse on another temple that was fucking with his sect, and in so doing became an embodiment of said curse. He was also eventually propitiated and went away. There's "The Mouse's Wedding", too. That's mostly a Bugs Bunny-style satire on the mores of the era, rather than a serious suggestion of an actual society of critter-people. Plus he was just, you know, an actual mouse and not a mouse-man.

The concept of "nezumi" as a Beastman race is something L5R invented whole-cloth because the creator liked Skaven.

>>74589081

Constantly falling to Anime fan service when OP is trying to work with Authentic Folklore is pretty annoying honestly.

>>74587164
>>74587169
>>74588001
>>74588502
Had big titty asian gf in high school, so I rarely watch asian pron

>>74589270
Yokai are just so much fun.

>>74589322
I had fangirls for about a month before I moved away to a better school. I still have no idea why.

On an unrelated note, harems don't seem to fit my bill.

>>74589120
I want to point out that the "ma" in both akuma and majin is the same "ma" in words like mahou (magic, particularly European-style). Japan picked up on Christian Europe's association of magic and witchcraft with demons and Satan.

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>>74589234
I think you need to learn your history anon.

>>74589304
You did see OP's image, right? Lewd is lewd.

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>>74589385
OP here. We can have both.

>>74589304
anime doesn't mean shitting on folklore

>>74589385

Yeah, he should of been careful with that if he didn't want to be drowning in Anime renditions.

>>74589270
Given how little resemblance nezumi have to skaven, and how obscure Warhammer was in America in that time period, I'll think it's more likely they were based on Master Splinter from the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

>>74587050
And sideways vaginas

>>74589603
that's mouth, but same purpose

>>74589465
>degenerate samurai
Probably a more faithful representation of real samurais than any japanese media

>>74589234
>he doesnt even know mythology but tries to school people
Wow, anti furry posters are such philistines. Who could’ve seen it coming

There's a now-obscure new-wae samurai film called "Zipang" I could recommend.
It's a bit like a live-action Ninja Scroll, but goofier.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104559/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFCv4QEiX_c
(yeah, motherfucker plays his own entrance theme)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kVT65pNr_w

>>74588523
The inu are alive and well dude.

>>74589953
>reduced to a fraction of their pre-colonization population with most of their culture wiped off the face of the earth to force them to conform to Japanese society
yeah they're doing great

>>74589953
They're alive, at least. Up on what amounts to a reservation in Hokkaido, IIRC.

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>On Japanese Swords
Holy shit this is a complex one.
Much has been made of the Japanese reverence for the katana, but this is actually a variable sort of situation. Swords are revered because they are very expensive, difficult things to create...exactly the same way Vikings and other cultures early in Sword making revered swords, in fact, and for exactly the same reasons. It wasn’t until the 13th century that swordmaking an art form, and even then for a long time there was still such a thing as a cheap piece of shit sword, just like everywhere else. Mastercrafted swords were revered, just like in Europe. While swords were the symbol of the Bukē (warrior caste, samurai), there actually wasn’t a law against some rando picking up a sword and saying he WAS a samurai, though the lack of training and such definitely would show through eventually.
It wasn’t until the end of the Civil Wars period that swords became illegal for peasants, and this was basically done as a way to control the number of new samurai showing up and slow the civil wars down. In fact there’s a theory that their big disastrous war with Korea was done at least in part to keep a bunch of samurai who now suddenly had no wars to fight very busy and maybe kill a shitload of them to reduce how many there were at the time and control them better.
Wakizaki kind of don’t exist; wakizashi only exist as part of a daishō, a paired katana and wakizashi forged at the same time. If separated from it’s paired katana, nobody could tell the difference between a wakizashi and a regular short sword. A short sword by itself is a “kodachi”, which literally means “Little Tachi (Sword). Tachi are older styles of sword, with a VERY heavy curve as samurai were formerly exclusively cavalryman. A lot of the unusual nature of Japanese fencing comes from how ungainly Tachi were on foot and how you had to adapt your fighting to compensate.

>>74590251
>Civil Wars period that swords became illegal for peasants
It also wasn’t swords period, but swords above a certain length; a kodachi was still legit for someone to carry if they had cash to spend, and merchants who had to travel frequently did carry one because it was dangerous to travel and better to be armed. There’s actually entire schools of fencing dedicated to mostly using a shorter blade, as a longer sword often was limited in usage in crowded cities.

>>74589871
...I'm pretty sure several of the guys from Seikima II are in that group of actors. And that dwarf dude is fucking awesome in pretty much everything.

>>74589636
>he doesn’t know

>>74587445
to soften some of these valid criticisms, don't forget there are korean/chinese inspirations throughout
overall I think it's a good westerner's eastern fantasy and does a better job than most in making the setting meaningful for players out the gate

>>74590538
There’s actually barely any Chinese influences at all; even the system of how the Emperor is selected (one person becomes the Emperor and takes the Imperial Name, the rest of the heirs join the second family and take their name) is 100% lifted from Heian-era Japanese politics. I can even name the families that were the irl equivalent of the Seppun and Otomo. All of the “Chinese” influences people cite are just people being generally ignorant of certain Japanese customs regarding the Kugē (aristocratic class). The only “Chinese” element of Rokugan is the Great Wall; which serves such a different purpose and function as to nearly be irrelevant.
The single largest influence of other Japanese cultures is Mongolian stuff; which is limited to the unicorn clan.

>>74590251
>In fact there’s a theory that their big disastrous war with Korea was done at least in part to keep a bunch of samurai who now suddenly had no wars to fight very busy and maybe kill a shitload of them to reduce how many there were at the time and control them better.
To reinforce that, the eventual "winners" of the whole enchilada were from domains that had largely managed to duck sending troops into Korea. That was partly an accident of geography -- levies for the Korean war were biased towards troops if you lived closer to the jumping-off point, and towards food and cash if you lived in the North. But there was a lot of speculation that the Satsumas got hit so fucking hard by the war because they were a very serious threat to the government post-conquest of Okinowa/Ryukyu, and needed to be kept on the back foot to ensure his son's succession went smoothly. Which played into the Northerner's hands even more as shit wore on and Hideyoshi's brains went down the crapper.

>>74587014
If I was going to make a fantasy Japan setting, I'd go all in on feudalism and double on xenophobia. Like, the kind of xenophobia that's responsible for the nomenclature of "Bulgarian."
>this fucker ties his obi the wrong way so he'll probably try to murder me the moment I turn my back, and then rape my horse

>>74590653
off the top of my head cultural elements like gift giving are from mainland chinese culture, and some of the story arcs definitely reminded me of the romance of the three kingdoms. Other than that I'd have to reread the books.

>>74587014
youkai.
and shinto.
and some magic.
actually, just touhou, yeah. just everything touhou does, basically

>>74590653
Except the Rokugani emperor actually has power. A lot of power. All the power of a Chinese emperor and a Japanese Shogun, but without bothering to actually have a Shogun. The emperor says something needs to die and the whole country mobilizes their militaries to kill it.

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The Sengoku period is the most obvious inspiration one wants to draw from. There are several elements that I would implement if I ever ran one.

First, samurai are obviously in. The typical portrayal of the honorable, respectful warrior is okay. But you need to also add in the more realistic element; that samurai were arrogant, violent, and angry people. War and bloodshed is something to be actively enjoyed, and the neutral good character with his, "omg, the people suffer, war is bad, you can't do this!" is going to be out of place in the wold.

Second, a focus on family, clans, and politics. Even in a small region there should be various powerful noble families feuding with one another and constantly making alliances. If a player wants to be successful in a Japan setting, simply going out on quests to kill monsters is not going to be enough. You need to actively make friends and connections if you ever want to be more than regionally known mercenaries.

Aesthetics are of course important. Japanese robes, katana, tea, geisha, etc. Also need to add in elements of Japanese horror and monsters.

And third, no fucking animefags allowed. I say this as an animefag. Any time there's a game advertisement about a fantasy Japam the fucking weebs roll in with their cringe waifus, harem anime protags, and yuri garbage. Anime avatar? Anime name? You're fucking out unless you really impress me with a character concept I personally know you're not a cringe fuck.

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So I have an idea that is in dire need of refinement.

I have an idea for a Rakugan like setting that is basically most of the asian countries thrown into a kitchen sink but their major connection is that their are 5 imperial families that are supposed to be descended from a pantheon of gods that all of them generally believe/worship.

4 of the families founded their own nations and the 5 resides in it's own !Vatican style country at the base of a mountain that has significance in my setting as it's believed the original 5 progenitors of these royal families came from and every so often the 5th family calls on one of the other 4 to send a bride or groom to marry into their family.

So, questions being how can I have this be an aspect in the world and what would be some cool ideas to go with it.

>>74590799
The gift giving is a Japanese thing, particularly the “refuse three times” thing.
>>74590840
Yes, the Emperor has power, exactly like the Heian-era Tennō did. What, do you think the position was ALWAYS purely ceremonial? There was a huge war over it and it’s one of the most famous wars in Japanese history. It’s like saying a fantasy setting where the King has more power then the nobles is exactly like Britain before the Magna Carta, except that that truth has kind of been wildly inconsistent over British history, particularly as time went on, and saying “this isn’t like this” ignores literally hundreds of years of history between these different events and government styles.

I don’t have problems with the anachronisms of Rokugan, I only have issue with how they dealt with them; basically by obstinately ignoring them instead of making incremental changes here and there to explain inconsistencies. It would have been easy as fuck and nobody would even notice (because most of the fans barely understand Japanese history or culture anyway; it would just be cool new details to them) but the story team just doubled down on shit explanations the same way a DM getting called out in not knowing the rules does it; because otherwise you won’t “respect his authority”.

Frankly if you’re unwilling to learn and change then you don’t deserve authority in the first place because nobody knows EVERYTHING.

>>74591096
>Tennō
Speaking of which; calling the Rokugani emperor “the son of heaven” is the most Japanese thing ever. Chinese Emperors had the MANDATE of Heaven, but they only rarely declared to be actually legit descendants of the gods, mostly because China changed hands so many times that there’s almost no imperial lines with true blood descent from the original Emperor who unified China, who was literally just a warlord anyway.

In addition, the total lack of an Imperial Bureaucracy in the “Mandarin Scholar” sense utterly reflavors the supposedly “Chinese-influenced” government.

>>74591174
>“Mandarin Scholar”
This is a big thing actually; the lack of Confusion virtues and the fact that the Rokugan government is composed of their military-aristocratic class instead of 80% composed of a bunch of middle class Commoners who took a standardized test is a HUGE component to why Chinese society looks the way it does. Confusion virtues even heavily look down on the nobility and military class, as being only good for war and determining the line of succession.

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>>74591174
You know related to this- how would the government work in a 'samurai-wars' era?

I assume that each samurai clan de-facto runs the land that they control- how much beuracracy would that entail? Would the discussion begin and end with Samurai yelling at the peasants to pay their rice-taxes? What about the Emperor and Shogunate? How much bureaucracy there? I understand in this scenario the Emperor would be a puppet figure without much real control over the islands, but what would they be doing all day? What would be their responsibilities? Would the emperor's household control any land? Would it be out of place to have an 'imperial guard' that acts as a combination of bodyguards/army?

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>>74591244
You know, unrelated to the discussion, but did China have a noble class? Cause it's never talked about like they did. I know that the Imperial Dynasty for the most part resembled most royal families you see- but you'd also swap out the dynasties every few centuries, so I assume there was some noble class that was enacting something similar to feudalism- governing in the Emperor's stead.

>>74591332
>I assume that each samurai clan de-facto runs the land that they control- how much beuracracy would that entail?
Then depends on when.
As a rule, samurai were SHIT at bureaucracy in general, bedside they considered anything other then the study of warfare “beneath” then. Ironically during the Tokugawa Shogunate it was only the samurai who were good at that sort of thing got promoted and were able to hold down jobs. But for much of their history samurai were traditionally terrible at it, and even later on a lot of samurai were widely considered “useless” by peasants and merchants because the peasants and merchants made actual money and were productive and the samurai...weren’t.
>Would the discussion begin and end with Samurai yelling at the peasants to pay their rice-taxes?
Actually you went to the jitō (local land controlling samurai, like a feudal knight), and later on to the Daimyō, who controlled taxes and paid to the Shogunate or Emperor.
>What about the Emperor and Shogunate? How much bureaucracy there?
For the Kugē (the aristocratic class that the Emperor was a part of), not actually that much, and it was all managed by a handful of noble families. Instead what you got were a lot of nobles focusing on art and culture and poetry. You know how the samurai aesthetic is rather....austere and minimalist?
Well the Kugē were NOT like that, and were every bit as flamboyant as Chinese court life could be; fancy dress, crazy hats, lots of jewelry, etc. But later the cultural stuff is the only real stuff they did so the entire country began to use minimalism as it’s primary aesthetic.

Continued in my next post:

>>74591332
Continues from >>74591622
>>I understand in this scenario the Emperor would be a puppet figure without much real control over the islands, but what would they be doing all day? What would be their responsibilities?
Basically nothing at that point. They were still very wealthy (they were paid mostly to be alive) and had a fancy court life but no real political power.
The “decedent Heian-period nobleman/woman” is a cultural stereotype.
>Would the emperor's household control any land?
Nope. All land was controlled by the Bukē (Warrior Class), who were samurai. Is is sort of why the Emperor lost power; from a practical standpoint, more and more of the actual power was in the samurai then the nobles, who gave them orders. When the samurai finally fought a war over it (the reasons are more complex but that boils it down), the Kugē lost all power because they sort of outsourced all of their practical strength.
>Burt it Would it be out of place to have an 'imperial guard' that acts as a combination of bodyguards/army?
The people who did this were samurai; the title literally means “a servant” for a reason. Afterwards the Emperor and Kugē, but basically they were under house arrest at best.

If you want a western analogy; imagine if all the knights who controlled all the land decided everyone ranked Baron and above was a fucking Gaylord and needed to die, and then divided up the spoils amongst themselves and you have a very rough analogy of what happened.

>>74587451
a blown kiss nine lives
steaming mud waits three more shots
a blown kiss the sky

>>74591359
They did have a noble class but it didn’t work the same as European nobility did.
They had Dukes (Zhōng), but Dukes basically just meant “you’re somewhere in line of legitimate succession for the Imperial Throne”. Often the Dukes were appointed positions to keep them busy, but not always did this happen.

The Chinese government (as in everything from taxes to local rule) was instead more often run by whatever version the Imperial Bureaucracy existed at the time, which was mostly composed of a specially-educated middle class.
To some degree, the Confusion beliefs that compromise most of Chinese morality basically say that the military should exist only to serve the educated men who are in power, because if you gave the military more cultural value and importance they might decide to overthrow the government since they already had all the military power anyway. Instead they existed to serve the Emperor, who gave orders to the Bureaucrats who managed the day-to-day affairs of the land. This is an oversimplification of course but it WAS a very stable method of government most of the time so it was the basis for a lot of the longer-lives Dynasties like the Tang and Ming.

The downside is that the system lends itself well to small-scale corruption (the larger and more complex any organization, the more flaws it’s going to have, and the Imperial Bureaucracy was VERY large) which sometimes ballooned into the huge civil wars that China is so famous for in it’s history. Scholar-officials were tested on Confucison virtues but other then that it was just kind of taken as a given that if they could past these standardized tests that never changed they would be good, uncorrupt people.

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>>74591622
Right, so the 'local lord' is the Daimyo then.

So yeah, I'm getting we went from a 'nobles and knights' schema to a 'knights all the time schema'. Either way though, would the idea of having the Emperor with a sort of small pocket of land work for a fantasy setting? I'm imagining it'd be limited to like a single city, and even then, most of the real power remains with the shogun.

>>74591096
>The gift giving is a Japanese thing, particularly the “refuse three times” thing.
This might be a grey area, since both cultures have something like this. I'd say who it was 'inspired by' depends how the writer perceived it rather than which culture took from which.

>>74591880
Not that anon, but it would definitely work. A city of ancient kings, high in a mountain between Heaven and Earth and unreachable by normal means, from which the Imperial line first emerged and where the Emperor lives with all of their servants and peers, would be ideal for a spiritual figurehead who may not even be away that the country they technically rule has been overtaken by a military government.

>>74590799
The Dragon Clan are very Chinese inspired (but with a Japanese samurai layer). One of their Families (which are really what we'd call clans) is basically just Judge Dee stretched out to an entire group, and another are Shaolin mountain monks.
The celestial bureaucracy with gods that literally fill ministerial positions for things like the weather and where souls go is pretty Chinese too.

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>>74592012
Well as I said earlier, I'm imagining something low-fantasy, so this would be more analogous to Kyoto or the Vatican.

>>74591880
>Right, so the 'local lord' is the Daimyo then.
The local lord is the jitō, but later on the Daimyō supersedes that title. A Daimyō title very much has martial connotations, but yes; he’s the guy. In fact; a Daimyō is far more like the “local lord” stereotype then the ACTUAL “local lords” were because his rule was effectively law and the Shogunate literally did not care as long as you kept armies below a certain size and paid your taxes.
>Either way though, would the idea of having the Emperor with a sort of small pocket of land work for a fantasy setting? I'm imagining it'd be limited to like a single city, and even then, most of the real power remains with the shogun.
Kyoto was basically this irl, which is why it’s so much fancier and has so many cool temples and old buildings; the Kugē actually cared about that sort of thing.

Generally when someone took control of Japan they took Kyoto first, because the Emperor was the guy who officially christened the Shogun and if you took the Emperor “under your protection” then the Shogun was you.
>>74591895
Fair, but Chinese gift-gifting could be more....blatant. Like, literally just money. Bribery, basically.
For instance if you opened a deal with a samurai by giving him a tasteful art piece or sword? That’s cool, and it gets you face. But if you just tried to hand him cash it’s tasteless and insulting and dumb, and you get looked down on because samurai “don’t handle money”.

>>74592104
Yep, that's the same for Rokugan. Samurai """don't handle money""", and a gift that's too utilitarian looks like an insult. Even a sword would be insulting if you don't have a good explanation. A sword that belonged to your ancestor and was thought lost would be an amazing gift. A sword that we made because we thought you might like a sword is an insult (because of the implication that you need a sword and can't get it the normal way).

>>74587445
How much of that monoculture western tone deafness i changed in Fantasy Flight's 5e of L5R? I know nothing about the setting, but I'd assume FFG would tweak the setting once they acquired it.

>>74592164
>A sword that we made because we thought you might like a sword is an insult (because of the implication that you need a sword and can't get it the normal way).
This part at least was pretty different from Japan. L5R implies every sword ya somebody’s grandfather’s sword, which then implies there’s been literally zero population growth and the same number of samurai swords for 1200 years.

It’s one of those “wait, if everyone has somebody’s ancestral sword and nobody’s ever had to purchase one then like...what if a samurai has three sons and no more swords? Does one just not get to be samurai?”

Logically, eventually SOMEONE has to pay a sword smith for a new sword:

>>74592209
They haven't been that way since the first edition of the RPG back in 1995 introduced alternate schools and the idea that every family has its share of every type of samurai (because they're all administering their own lands and expected to be able to fight small scale wars against each other). The CCG was what really pushed the idea that every single Hida is a heavily armored beatstick who only knows how to read so his drill sergeant could insult him in writing.
FFG hasn't really changed all that much. Not being a member of the most common school for your family no longer has mechanical implications, only narrative ones.

>>74592209
Barely any of it. The fans tend to get upset when you try to add nuance to it.
There were some slight changes though.

>>74592254
That's been pretty clear too. Everyone has "grandfather's sword" in spirit, not body. No one brings this up because it's not polite. New swords are made all the time, for all sorts of reasons (including too many grandchildren, broken old swords, stockpiling, commemorations, and just because someone wanted a new sword). The insult is in giving it as a formal gift, not in it existing.

>>74592209
>>74592306
Well now, all the tabletop RPGs - including L5R, Genesys and Star Wars - are all being handled by the European outfit EDGE Studio, and they've already got plans for L5R. They've already confirmed the first L5R book out of EDGE will be a Dragon book.

>>74592344
Huh. Interesting.

>>74592344
Nothing is actually going to change, it was all freelancers under FFG and it will be the same freelancers under Edge, with the same guy coordinating things.

>>74592398
Sam Stewart, original bigwig of FFG's tabletop RPG division, is on as the new head of EDGE, for context. This video goes into more detail on what EDGE will be up to.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/695349094

>>74588845
>>74588612

http://yokai.com

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>>74592104
Cool. I thank you for the dank knowledge.

So that leaves my basic political makeup of the islands set up- I have a set of clans ruled by Daimyo, on paper governed by the Shogun and Emperor, de-facto it's every man for himself, I have fantasy white people carving out trade-posts and selling guns from not!china, and I have some native lands people in the mountains, some tropical islands and some northern plains that are considered 'outside' the conflict, but a part of the politics nonetheless.

So then that leaves me some cute-catgirls, ninja, and ronin. From what I understand ninja's were just random peasants that got sick of the Samurai' bs, and so just got really good at stealth- most of the other tropes being exaggeration in fiction (in part by samurai who don't want to admit that a family member got got by an illiterate peasant). Still- what would be some acceptable tropes to lean into for them? I think a downplayed version of the secret ninja village could work. Ronin from what I understand are samurai without a master- that is a samurai whose boss lost in a war, and are essentially mercenaries. As for the catgirls I'm considering doing an old favorite and just making them oppressed slaves. Which when I stop to think about it- could simplify a lot of issues if the fantasy white people started bringing in fantasy black people as well.

>>74592104
I liked the 'don't give useful gifts because that implies their lord is not supplying them well, give art/sentimental gifts' idea, but don't know the cultural origins of that one

>>74592603
Ninjas are just spies, and sometimes mercenary. Most of them just watch and sometimes break into secure areas to view documents.
The idea of black pajama ninjas literally came from a play where the writer had one of the black-clad assistants you're supposed to ignore (who move the set around and drag away actors playing dead) step forward and backstab a main character. That was such a strong subversion of expectations that it stuck as the popular idea of ninjas.

>>74592679
The term is stage-hand but I know what you mean. I also believe that in history we have much more examples of ninja that were die-hard loyal to their masters than samurai- I figure because ninja's being rankless peasants they have a lot more to lose if their master dies.

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>>74591880
>>74592104
There's also the element of Japan's geography. There are a whole shitload of mountains, rivers, and areas that are basically impassable to mounted men for lengthy periods each year. You basically knew when the fighting was gonna come, and once the monsoons started a lot of the micro-domains were basically islands for the next several months. That fostered a very independent mindset. Because they carve up the land so much, a lot of the fiefs were literally as large as they could get. Places like Kwanakajima, the Edo Plains, and the Kansai Plains were so critical because they were a huge, level area that you could actually exert control of for most of the year and grew a screaming fuckton of rice.
One of the more brilliant things the Tokugawas did to break the back of the regional lords was the "visitation system". You had to move back and forth between your domain and the capitol on a regular basis.. which just so happened to coincide with campaign seasons. You didn't show up and your lands and title were potentially forfeit, plus the shogunate could declare war on you depending on the circumstances.

>>74592603
>From what I understand ninja's were just random peasants that got sick of the Samurai' bs,
Actually, no. That’s part of the fiction too.
Ninja, or shinobi, were just spies basically, and it was basically a skill set like any other. Hattori Hanzo, one of the most famous ninja ever was aactually samurai. So were probably most historical shinobi. Recall, at that time it was easier to become Samurai; all you needed was the weaponry, and then nobody could tell you different. Miyamoto Musashi is also a famous samurai, but he was probably just a rando who picked up a sword one day and got Gud with it.

That said, if you want to go straight folklore the ninja villain thing is pretty classic.
>Ronin
Some ronin were mercenaries, but others were basically just bandits, which tends to be a thin line irl anyway.
And they didn’t always loose their master; if that was the case their service would simply transfer to his heir. Most ronin became ronin because their master basically let them go because paying them a stipend to be a standby military force during peacetime was kind of pointless. And since a lot had no skills outside of war they basically became bandits or mercenaries.

This is where the switch to the Daimyō system caused problems; since the samurai were no longer individual land holders like feudal knights were, that meant their only purpose was being a standing army. Except their system wasn’t economically sophisticated enough to KEEP a standing army, particularly if that army has cultural issues against learning to do anything except fight.

This caused a sharp overall decline in the samurai class as the Japanese economy developed but samurai wages stagnated; the samurai became a huge group who basically did nothing, made less money then the merchants and yet refused to go get real jobs and become productive, yet fiercely hung onto their pride and rights which became more and more fragile as they became more and more irrelevant.

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>>74592603
>Sarcastic, cussing African catgirls
mmmm.

>ronin
Lots of ways for it to happen, not just battle. Your old lord can die and have an unworthy son. One of the perpetual land shuffles can leave you disinherited because of some stupid shit your older brother did. If your family were hereditary mercenaries (and a lot of the junior samurai families were exactly that) without a land grant they could get surplused rather abruptly if their employers had a couple famine years or a bad fine. Certain crimes would be bad enough to get you the boot, but not technically require execution (though you were generally expected to have a date with a white suit and a short knife at that point). You might have gambled, whored, or drunk off your tax payments, or just had a really bad year yourself and gotten your lands seized.
There were also guys who didn't want to be a part of your system, MAAAAAN and buggered off to another area looking for work (particularly common if your boss turned out to be a raging dickhead).

>>74592254
>>74592322
Rokugani society is supposed to be filled with loopholes on top of loopholes, but most people completely miss this fact and just take everything at face value. Another loophole around the sword thing is this sword was commissioned by and for your grandfather, but now it’s yours because you just happened to hit adulthood at the same time it was ready, bam, you have grandfather’s sword.

>>74592289
>Not being a member of the most common school for your family no longer has mechanical implications, only narrative ones.
I can’t think of any edition where this wasn’t the case.

>>74593135
There was always the snowflake tax. 5e doesn't have that.

>>74593135
I think in 4e it was like 10 character points to select an alternative starting school, and had to be chosen at character creation

>>74593187
The advantage was for taking schools outside of your clan, not your family.

>>74593217
See
>>74593222

>>74593234
I'll have to presume the original poster meant clan, because I don't know of anything special that happened to an asahina trained as a daidoji iron warrior or something (one would have to presume that some schools would need to output more trainees than a single family could provide too)

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>>74587220
Cantha from Guild Wars, yo.

>>74592978
>sharp overall decline in the samurai class
This is a huge theme in eras taking place in the middle and late Edo Periods; the samurai had been at total peace for nearly 120 years, and that meant generations of samurai barely even knew how to fight because they’d never been in a real war or battle before. This made the ones with jobs more practical, but also caused their cultural obsession with death; since dying in battle is the best way to go and you aren’t likely to do that anymore, then why not look for OTHER ways to die?

In earlier eras, committing suicide over points of honor when your service as a soldier might be needed soon was considered pointlessly melodramatic. Later on when your cultural “honorable death” shit is harder to reach suddenly finding reasons to get killed looks a lot more attractive.

There’s reason why the Hagakure basically just said “KYS” a thousand different ways as a way to be honorable.

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Will there ever be enough cute kitsune in a Japanese setting?

>>74589322
this never happened stop fucking lying

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>>74593290
I love Cantha and I adore Kaineng in particular. It's just city layered on top of city on top of city in such a grandiose, fantastical fashion. Everywhere you go, you're either surrounded by towering shanties or on top of them. Rarely, the sea of slums is broken. A canal cutting through like a blade. A plaza that sits like a gouge in the cityscape. An ancient temple that no one dared build on top of. It's just such an interesting part of the setting.

>>74593217
5pts for going out-of-clan. 10pts was for ditching your first school to start a second.

>>74593862
ah, the double school thing but no bushi/shugenja, that sounds about right

>>74592677
>but don't know the cultural origins of that one
There isn’t any origin for it; in Japan your gift could be anything at all, particularly if it was well-made (a sword from a famous sword smith is a popular one, or art from a famous artist or a previous tea set or whatever), it was just rude for gift to be straight money. If it was straight money then you’re basically implying that the person you’re giving the gift too is taking bribes, which is in some ways what the gift giving tradition is ANYWAY but just doing it outright by offering money is pretty rude and offensive.

>>74593889
There is a (modern?) tradition of giving gifts that can't be easily re-gifted, like sweets. Could be an interpretation of that.

>>74594037
Gift-giving is a common facet of many cultures, particularly ones that have had a lot of long-term contact with China as China has always had that part of their culture. China is one of the few nations where dowries are still pretty much an assumed thing; sometimes it’s just something like a car, but straight money from one family to the groom or bride’s family is also pretty common.
Problem is, it lends itself to bribery pretty easily in big business and modern politics. China has had a pretty consistent problem with corruption no matter how hard they crack down on it just because of this long-held cultural tradition.

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>>74587305
>onmyōji
If you can see from the front wait till you see it from the back back back back...

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Grand Sumo, of course.

>>74594433
I randomly came across a post about Sumo from some guy that's big into professional partial arts and has great breakdowns of boxing / sumo / etc matches that he posts there. Ever since then I've kept a steady interest in Sumo, which is odd because I don't follow any other sports.

>>74594582
Sumo is legit impressive:
https://youtu.be/yOfMtyGShPA

>>74594433
>>74594582
>>74594595
Fun fact: sumo used to be a religious ceremony, which is why there’s so much “ceremony” involved in modern sumo. It only became a “sport” in the 20th century, IIRC.

>>74594595
Thoroughly enjoyed watching, thanks anon.

>>74594635
Neat. It makes me wonder what it would be like if other things followed suit and existed as a mainstream modern sport, like jousting. The material developments and construction methods for the armor suit alone would be fascinating.

>>74592603
Fuck, what is it about female ninja's that makes them the perfect fetish fuel?

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>>74587014
Tomboy swordswomen

>>74594718
>Kunoichi are well-trained in seduction (“kunoichi” is a common euphemism in period dramas not for combat ninjas but female spies who seduce)
>Cold, often distant, but tends to wear outfits that show off her ass and legs a lot, probably with a lot of fishnets and sideboob.
>Often part of some kind of breeding program
>Traditional Japanese submissive wife
>Loyalty to her master means she will sexually please at the drop of a hat if you command
>Likes to do acrobatics so you can see her from every angle possible
>Japanese people fetishize literally everything

Take your pick anon.
Could be as simple as you playing a bunch of DOA games at a formative age.

>>74594828
Now that you mention it, fighting games have ruined women for me.

>>74589505
Yes it does.

>>74587080
>>74588355
And the plural of ninja is ninja.

>>74587014
Weeb players

You fellow tasteful individuals wouldn't happen to know some good, non-kurosawa jidaigeki,.would you?
(I love Kurosawa's movies but I know he's kind of an outlier when it comes to Japanese cinema; he was just so good he's the one we know the most in the West)

>>74595151
And the plural of [Japanese word] is [Japanese word].

>>74594595
I did sumo once when I was at university in Japan. It's incredibly intense.
The matches I did lasted maybe a minute but left me panting and wrecked, and at the time I did 6 hours of Japanese Kempo a week so I wasn't a complete slob.
In a sumo ring, the sound of them clashing is incredible. It's really impressive and it makes you realize just how strong they're trained to be, especially when one just rams into another and just throws him all the way against the wall

>>74595438
No, the plural of Japanese word is Japanese words.

>>74594697
There's another sumo tournament coming up in a couple weeks, as a heads-up. Some really interesting movement in the ranks of late, and several of my favorite guys are doing well.

>>74594718
Seductive, powerful, sub/dom switch at the drop of a hat, physically honed for maximum speed, flexibility, and strength. What's not to love?

>>74595421
Takashi Miike, of all fucking people, put out a HELL of a remake of "13 Assassins" not too long ago. I also recommend "Zatoichi" and "Lone Wolf and Cub". They're reasonably easy to find, have some really good actors kicking around in them, and they have decent English versions for many of the early films. Zatoichi is fun because he's much more of a sleazebag and crook than the usual samurai fare; Mifune's characters are more Bogart-style bastards who used to have a heart of gold. As the series wear on they slide a bit in quality, of course. Lady Snow Blood is pretty sweet. Kill Bill just straight ripped sections of it off wholesale. Dororo is also fucking great - it uses the fact that it looks like a Disney film to get away with hilarious levels of gore and existential horror.
Be aware that a lot of Japanese period films, especially chanbara, are grindhouse exploitation flicks. With all the casual brutality and rape that implies.

This whole thread is an excuse to post your waifus and say why they are better than everyone else's

>>74595485
And the plural of pointlessly obtuse pedantry is ... ?

>>74590653
Weren't IRL Kuge customs chinese-based?

>>74587014
A big trope of Japanese mythology is for people to become special through intense training and skill rather than through being born exceptional. Western mythology focuses heavily on someone being born special - the son of a god, for example - but Japanese myth has people working hard for their glory. Lots of training sequences would be appropriate, as would scholars spending long hours researching and studying in order to become more learned. No one is born superman: they need to work hard for that shit

Why did Samurai shave top of their heads?

>>74597802
Fetishising old age.

>>74597625
Some of them.

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>>74587050
Or as a bhoddisvista.

>>74587014
Doing actual research on japanese history and folklore instead of watching anime would be a good start

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>>74594828
>Japanese people fetishize literally everything
Let's talk about the French for a minute.

>>74599315
Same goes for medieval history instead of playing fantasy games.
Or Egyptology instead of Mummy Movies.

>>74597802
The shaving and the hair knot was to make wearing a helmet more efficient. No hair at their top mean that it couldn't get stuck while the knot prevented the helmet from slipping.

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>>74594769
Y E S

>>74600455
No such thing as French ninjas, nobody cares

Are there other alternatives for fantasy Japan other than L5R?

>>74587755

Just play Tenra Basho Zero.

You'll thank me.

>>74605234
Use whatever your fantasy game of choice is, and reskin/homebrew until you have what you need

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>>74605234
Tenra Bansho Zero if you want something direct from the source.
Otherwise, fantasy or generic systems of your choice should do the job as well.

>>74594635
Nah, sumo has been competitive since at least the late 1700s (and only because those are the oldest tournaments on written record), it was just hosted by shrines partly to coincide with religious festivals and partly so warlords wouldn't kill any wrestlers from rival families.

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>>74603671
No, about the fetishizing thing. Because people give shit to Japan when they got their Fisherman's Wife, but then we in the west make fucked up things like pic related.

Look if you dare, I probably should have just linked it instead of posting it. Mods be merciful. I warned you.

>>74605234
There's one BRP japanese game. I think it is called Legends. Set in the Heian period.

There's also a hack for KAP set in the same period. I'm sure you can find it online. There was also word of an actual spinoff being developed, but I imagine it was postponed in favor of the 6th edition.

Think Scarlet Heroes has something on Japan.

You can also retool Legends of the Wulin.

There's this small free game in drivethrough called A Wanderer's Romance. It think it works for fantasy Japan, despite it being set in a preset setting.

>>74605558
If you can read Japanese, afaik there's something in the same vein, with more stuff and a slightly more modern setting. There was some reasonable but annoying reason it wasn't translated. Forget what it was called, though. Something Something Zero, fairly sure.

>>74605873
If you're open to LotW, couldn't Qin also work?

>>74605988
Sure! I just thought that LotW is more easily rewritten to Japanese rather than Qin. Though, to be honest, my experience with Qin is reduced to only skimming the corebook so in this regard you are likely wiser than I. Do you think Qin could work?

>>74606007
Heh. I'm about as familiar with either - read enough to prepare for a game that fell through, years back.

>>74587014
>A large focus on spiritualism as the source of magic, with Yokai and Nature Spirits being the main cause of most supernatural phenomena.
>Not exactly religious, but respectful casters. Casting spells not through consuming components for spells, but offering them to appease spirits, like a jug of alcohol to a powerful fire spirit.
>A general higher level of education and sophistication among the peasantry. Not exactly more social mobility, but a more respectful understanding of society.

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>>74609787
This was mentioned in a previous thread about female monks, but I'm not sure I'd call the Mortal Kombat women "ninjas." "Assassins," sure, but probably not "ninjas" at this point.

Other than big tits and hot female ninjas and geishas, try to get the atmosphere of the setting across and make it clear through things that affect the game itself that the players are in Japan and not a generic fantasy setting. They should get that vibe from things in the game beyond just the surface level things like having Samurai or a Shogun or Asian architecture and Shinto temples being present.

I did a thing that didn’t take off based on modern Japan and it had younger characters who were encouraged to incorporate certain things from Japanese culture in their backgrounds. The work culture, the higher importance on seniority and family, more expectations throughout school, etc. And there were some anime tropes too like super powerful student council and delinquents. Aspects like this weren’t so much in the faces of the players but incorporating them into character design and some of the situations did give it a feeling that it wasn’t a American or European setting.

Obviously fantasy Japan would have different tropes than modern Japan so that’s something to look into. But I find if a setting is outside of the more common types for something, for example going with Japanese instead of European inspiration which everyone is familiar with in fantasy, layering things into the background helps get the feel across.

I would do the same thing if I were focusing on a Soviet setting, just focusing on different things such as, say, the distrust in society and how some people in the setting are going to be more distrustful cynics and some are going to be true believers in the party, etc.

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>>74587080
>Ninjas

>>74587092
bro, is that a samurai with a six-shooter?

>>74595421
>>74595534 Gave you a good list, let me add Harakiri and Samurai Rebellion by Masaki Kobayashi. Some of THE ABSOLUTE BEST in samurai cinema, and just cinema in general, really.

>>74605234

I've been using Usagi Yojimbo and it works great. It isn't THAT much mythological to be sure, but it's really easy to put it in there.

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>>74610576
bro, go watch Yojimbo, "is that a samurai with a six-shooter?" is literally the plot
pic related

Tengu, kami, youKai, etc are basically everywhere. 99% of them are basically small studio ghibli creatures that are harmless. Just going about their mysterious little existences.

>>74611454
OP wants to do a lameass low fantasy setting, anon. That means no yokai or any monsters.

>>74610118
They’re 1990’s Ninjas.
It’s a subtype.

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>>74611568
Fair enough, I'll give you that one.

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>>74609787
>>74610118
>>74611568
>>74611604
You're walking patrol on your lord's estate one night, and you see this creeping on the roof. What do you do?

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>>74588708
>Yeah, a lot of translations I see of japanese vtubers
Note: those translators, picrel

>>74587014
Just steal everything from Usagi Yojimbo except replace the different animal people with your preferred flavor of fantasy races. It's that simple.

>>74592254
>>74592322
>>74593123
Doesn't this all just apply to getting a sword from someone other than your daimyo? Cause the daimyo is supposed to provide you with what you need to do your job, that's why gifting someone a sword is considered rude unless it has sentimental value? Otherwise you just use the sword your daimyo gave you.

>>74593581
Only in our dreams, anon.

>>74611963
It only applies to swords given as formal gifts, with the understanding that gift giving is a formal ritual with specific cultural hangups. Furnishing equipment to servants is not gifting. Delivering a commissioned product is not gifting. Returning lost property isn't usually gifting, but if it's old enough and no one was expecting it, it could be spun that way.
Relevant to that one famous story where a guy took tea from a host without doing the ritual refusal and the rest of the group acted like he just farted at a funeral, basic hospitality is also not gifting.

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>>74611654
Get led on a wild goose chase around the property in a vain attempt to get my dick wet before getting choked out in a leglock, I guess. If I'm a grunt, I'm kinda obligated to follow my dick even if I'm on duty. I mean, she's clearly offering, so who am I to say no?

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>>74587014

For me it's Bronze Age Nippon or the highway.

>>74613416
I can barely find sources on pre-Heian Japan but I think it's a cool sounding place. Where is this picture from.

>>74588851
>Bad japanese, poetry, MANLINESS and Hot Blood, lots of guns, duels, really stupid yet well-presented monsters, lots of appreciation for fleeting beauty, conniving and inscrutable slimeball villains, honest but brutal villains, conniving and inscrutable slimeball "allies", and a general understanding that life is cheap but honor ain't.
I really don't like you.

>>74605744
Remember Totally Spies? That's made by the French. A more recent show of similar levels of fetishization is Miraculous Ladybug, which because of its supernatural elements can go where Totally Spies never could. It's also home to one of the most bizarre love squares I've ever seen.

>>74611279
>>74595534
Thanks a lot kind anons

>>74613834
I've not seen Miraculous Ladybug. Is it really as "bad" as Totally Spies?

>>74613834
>>74616134
I saw the first season with my sister. What struck me was how blatantly it was being French Spiderman (didn't realize until my sister said the creator was a fan of Spiderman when it dawned on me that the main character is an insect themed superhero with a black and red outfit that swings around the city with string, and adopts a completely different personality when in costume, whose main romantic interest is literally french for 'black cat').

Anyway though, I didn't notice any fetish bait in Ladybug. And even as a kid watching Totally Spies I thought that show was WEIRD for all the kind of transformation stuff that was going on in that show (looking back, that's probably what gave me a transformation fetish- guess I should just be happy it didn't give me a tickling fetish or something).

>>74616900
If you analyze it, Totally Spies could have triggered almost any fetish except directly genital related ones. /co/ compiled a list at some point.
https://imgur.com/a/pZlNi

>>74618307
>not getting pictures from each episode with the corresponding fetish
How is /co/ so continually disappointing?

>>74587014
The mysticism and mortals and the supernatural living right next to each other.

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>>74616134
The fanservice/fetishbait is centered more on Chat than on Ladybug. And it's nowhere near as bad as Totally Spies. I'd be hard pressed to think of a show that is.

>>74616900
obligatory

>>74618307
>https://imgur.com/a/pZlNi
>make episode literally titled Abductions
>it doesn't get into any of the myriad abduction-related kinks
JUST...

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>>74618307
>The Elevator
>Masochism
>You

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>>74618307

>Dehydration
>Janitor's cloths
>stilts

>>74605942
(Tenra War)

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>>74618307
>7 brainwashings
>Alex: 1
>Clover: 2
>Sam: 6 (7 if you count amnesia/memory loss) (8 if you count braindrain)

>>74613721
Bronze age japan, my man. I think that is Yamato period.

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>>74588183
>wants Ainu
>doesn't mention Golden Kamui
Read/watch Golden Kamui

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>>74587014
SPEARS

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Feminine male prostitutes.

>>74624748
dammit Locon, I'm not falling for this again

>>74624748
I think if you gaybaited a samurai, they'd cut the twink down.

>>74624834
Well in the context of the doujin they know they're male, dirty old nobles just want to tap them anyways.

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>Samurai
>Shogun
>Ninja
>Sumo
>Martial Artists in general
>Geisha
>Onmyōji
>Barbarian Ethnic Tribes
>playable Oni(kin) and tanuki
>yokai
>Mikos
>Honor vs Pragmatism
>Buddhism and Shintoism
>Expy of the Dutch Merchants that possess a shroud of mystery to them
>Cute girls
>Cute girls (Male)

>>74624834
You'd think that, but you'd be wrong. Samurai where one of the gayest cultures in history only outdone by Ancient Greece.

>>74625044
>Samurai where one of the gayest cultures in history only outdone by Ancient Greece.
And America

>>74625180
California should have seceeded.

>>74587014
I wanna combine shit like the movie Noroi, the video games Siren and Fatal Frame, and other stories like The Ritual, and blend them all into a horror story that's kind of like a Japanese Shadow over Innsmouth

>>74625605
Dweeb, Samurai are way cooler.

>>74625044
What I find hilarious is that they did it out of misogyny. Why, after all, would you want to have sex with something as depraved and disgusting as a woman, when you could instead have sex with your fellow man?

>>74625692
But then what about the sexy ninja girls like >>74611654? Don't you think they deserve to get fucked, too?

>>74625720
sure, by other ninja girls, or oni (of either gender)

>>74625616
Okay, fine. A village's tithe is weird. They send rice and/or dried fish but the food appears to be tainted.
OR, a strange-looking man appears in the samurai's fiefdom. He has what appears to be a valid passport from his own local lord, but he is creeping people the fuck out between his bizarre foreign customs and his 'off' appearance.
OR, Warring States. A province almost eagerly surrenders to whatever warlord fancies himself the unifier of Japan. Then the locals begin asking who's going to 'consummate' with the local deity.

>>74625720
Ninja are without honor. Samurai wouldn't fuck them even if they were men.

>>74625899
Rude.

>>74625899

And then you find out some samurai were actually....Shinobi