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>>72871780
there's the french version of 40k

>>72871780
>serious scifi settings like Warhammer 40000
lel

>>72871780
>serious scifi
>Warhammer 40000?

Please explain.

>>72871859
>>72871893
people actually take 40k seriously now

>>72871859
>>72871893
Compared to other contemporary sci-fi it is

>>72871780
Dune.

>>72871893
You don't think this is serious https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eoCcpMW8fSs?

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>>72871780
What?

>>72871780
>serious
>Warhammer 40000?
Pick one.

>>72871893
>>72872032
What is this trolling?

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>>72871907

>>72871780
Take a look at Coriolis.

>>72871780
Event Horizon
Aliens

both movies you would probably enjoy watching

>>72871780
Dune
AKA the franchise 40k lifted 60% of its shit from

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>>72873081
Shit got really fucked up in the later books. As in, shit went wild.

Are you sure, sir, that you do not mean “grim” or “bleak”, rather than “serious”?

Because wh40k isn’t serious, never has been.

>>72871959
It's one of the least serious, most tongue-in-cheek scifi settings there is.

>>72872283
Too arab for me.

You can always try Abyss series by Marcin Podlewski or if we are seriously proposing Dune then Prince of Nothing by Scott Bakker.

If you want to have something actually serious you should go for Ideal imperfection by Jacek Dukaj or Other Songs by same author.

>>72871780
I assume you mean dark and grim because 40k is not serious even if it takes itself seriously

>all these posters saying 40k isn't serious
Whats going on here?

>>72873570
Apparently there are still anons who are actually familiar with 40K and understand that it's over the top grimdarkness doesn't even try to be serious.

>>72874598
Over the top?

>>72873570
because it never was and is not.
It is grim, it is bleak, it is dark, but all of this is over the top in a way that can not really be considered serious at its core.

>>72874598
Oh you're one of those faggots who spam the obi-wan sherlock clouseau picture

let me straighten things out in your brain:

40k is generally played straight, with comedic elements.

"serious" is way too fucking vague of a term
if by "serious" you mean that it's supposed to make a statement about things that matter, then no
if by "serious" you mean grounded in reality then no
if by "serious" you mean played straight without irony then mostly yes
if by "serious" you mean with high stakes and drama then yes
if by "serious" you mean written with a lot of care for quality then no
if by "serious" you mean written by people who actually think it's cool then yes

>>72874632
>over the top
How is it not serious?

>>72874632
it absolutely can, see the whole blanchitsu initiative

also nice weaselwords there "not really" "be considered" "at its core"

>>72874657
It's pretty easy 40ks tone is serious. It's a serious setting with lots of serious themes.
Its not light hearted.
If you were to compare it to LotR the entire setting is Mordor everyday.

>>72874632
>>72874598
The Mahabharata is over the top
there it's not serious anymore

B-B-BUT IT HAS JOKES IN IT!
OBI WAN SHERLOCK CLOUSEAU OBI WAN SHERLOCK CLOUSEAU OBI WAN SHERLOCK CLOUSEEEEEEEEEAU

>>72874659
You are asking about the setting right? Not singular pieces of media made within the setting like the Astartes short film in the OP (which I would agree is serious). Because imo you do not really have to dig deep to find that tongue in cheek factor, even in nowadays 40k.
Just look at the whole characterization of the Orks, if you want a really blatant example.

>>72874697
That guy is some anti-40k shill. He has a folder and cheat sheet of shit to spam in 40k threads.

>>72874714
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B9V0bOB8sXQ
You don't think this is serious?
>characterization of the Orks,
Orks are only comedic to the reader not to the people they are killing.

>>72874740
as I am saying, 40k can be made serious, sure.

The setting is not serious though exactly because of stuff like:
>Orks are only comedic to the reader

I think if we you can not see that, then we might have fundamentally different outlooks on the setting, which is fine, and we should just agree to disagree, because no amount of arguing is going to change that.

>>72874714
once again
having comedic elements does not prevent something from being serious, until those comedic elements overwhelm everything else.

Orks are one race. One could argue necrons are another comedic race

but that's still a minority

40k isn't invader fucking zim, it's not a vessel for jokes it's a vessel for conflict

>>72874762

No, you're doing it ass-backwards

40k is serious by default and can be made silly by focusing on the silly aspects of ork kultur for instance

orks are not comedic by default. By default they are space barbarians. Not space clowns.

As for the space clowns, they are presented in an entirely humorless fashion

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>>72871780
>40K
>serious

>>72874762
>be made
No mate it fucking is serious.
>because of
Do you not understand what the 4th wall is? Orks are monsters in the setting. The comedy of Orks doesn't "exist" within the setting.
I think people like you mistake irony in the setting (and there is lots of it here and there) as the actual overall theme of the setting.
It isn't HGTTG or Discworld it's played very straight and serious.

>>72874740
>You don't think this is serious?
I actually don't. It's pretty cheesy to be honest. 40K is too bombastic and incoherent to be serious.

>>72874801
>he comedy of Orks doesn't "exist" within the setting
Different guy here, but this is irrelevant. Orks have a heavy element of dark humour. Whether people in-setting perceive this doesn't matter, it's something we the audience are meant to perceive.

>>72874805
Thats like your opinion man. You people that constantly want to imply settings are "camp" "hammy" "over the top" these aren't facts these are opinions.
What you are saying is you don't like the setting.

>>72874819
No it isn't. People are not privvy to orks silliness. It exists only for the viewer.
For fuck sake are you actually unable to imagine the perspective of people in the setting.
>lul funnay joke haha red paint splosion
Jesus.

>>72874805
and so is the overwhelming majority of epic poetry and mythology.

Once again, bombastic, cheesy and incoherent are not incompatible with serious at all.

>>72874823
No that's not what he's saying

he's full of shit but so are you.

It's a fact that certain pieces of fiction are written with a certain tone, such as cheesy or hammy

by the way, opinions can match reality.

what he's saying isn't that he doesn't like 40k, it's that he is unable to take the over the top tone seriously, and doesn't believe that anybody can. He is wrong as fuck of course

>>72874823
I wouldn't consider this camp or hammy. It however is not in any way an attempt to make a believable setting that could be seen as functioning the way it does outside of the plot power of grimdark. Yes, the characters in the setting take it very seriously, and there are serious stakes, but the setting is ultimately held together by pure grimdark. It's not coherent and it doesn't often endeavour to tell stories that broach really serious issues; at its most 'serious' it's about the powerlevels of various cartoonishly huge men in brightly patterned armour.

>a war in 40k kill 100 million
>"that number is too big this is silly"
I've always got the impression people that say this about 40k on some level find the setting deeply disturbing. It reminds them of reality. So they cope by falling into a cognitive dissonance trap. They rationalise the setting as "satire" (of what they never say)

>>72874836
is talking about the setting
>>72874819
is talking about the writing style

>>72874856
that means it's badly written, not that it isn't serious

>>72874850
No you are full of shit. Don't pretend there isn't a subset of assholes that like to continually attack 40k.
>he doesn't like 40k
If your attitude is 40k is a joke you don't like it,

>>72871780

>>72846942

You're welcome.

>>72874856
war is a really serious issue
>at its most 'serious' it's about the powerlevels of various cartoonishly huge men in brightly patterned armour.
have you ever opened a rulebook?

I came to this thread to watch the "serious" 40k fans defend giant blue men yelling at elves and orks and paperwork and I was not disappointed. A setting is not serious through the eyes of the characters in their universe, but through the audience. Flashlight army men who are as likely to die to their own leaders as they are to the enemy is not serious. Believing so hard in Throne Daddy that you sprout wings is not serious. Having a Throne Daddy is the peak of not being serious.

>>72874880
I don't consider 40K a joke, but I don't consider it serious either. If 40K was written 'seriously', it'd just be Dune.

>>72874880
Don't pretend that it's what I'm doing.

I'm sure he's part of that category, but he said none of that.

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>>72871780
DOOM, Event Horizon (movie),Quake, Dead Space, an upcoming indie game called "Hellpoint", Alien franchise, tabletop games like Nemesis and Deep Madness

>>72874894
>war is a really serious issue
it is, and 40k is doing a really good job of avoiding talking about it seriously

>>72874898
Literally incoherent. You think because a marine yells and fights aliens its not serious?

>>72874898
Wrong, actually it depends on the way it's written.

tone

And you will find that in 99% of the content, it's written with a serious tone

>>72874898
And here it is the proof that people that keep attacking 40k are homosexuals.
Lmao at the insecurity.
>mah gawd this isn't gay enough for me.

>>72874919
>>72874925
Throne Daddy

>>72874918
stop saying "seriously" when you mean "realistically"
seriousness is a tone. You could easily make the fucking tellytubbies serious.

>>72874907
I consider it serious and can appreciate the humour even the Orks. This isn't exactly unusual for a serious setting to have humour in it.

once again

serious, with comic relief elements

>>72874935
>daaaaadddy dadddy
Pull the butt plug out.
>>72874937
No the correct word is serious. Look at the new trailer. Its a serious situation objectively.

>>72874937
but I do not mean realistically. There is plenty of unrealistic settings that can talk about war seriously. 40k does not really strive to, though.

>>72874952
yes, it is serious, despite being unrealistic, that's what I've been saying

this fag
>>72874918
says it's not serious when he means it's unrealistic

>>72874957
It did at least when i was familar with it. 40k had discussions about war throughout it even nuclear war.

>>72874957
rick priestely took and still takes 40k serious.
I'm pretty sure you dont know what the word means anymore.

>>72874957
Oh then in that case you're simply misinformed

once again:
have you ever opened a rulebook?

>>72874941
I don't really consider humour to be the think that makes 40K not particularly serious. It just doesn't handle any of the topics it covers seriously. Yes, everyone in the setting is very serious, but this doesn't really change that it's an ultimately very escapist and wacky depiction of darkness.

40K can be scary, it can be fun, it can be strange... but it's rarely serious. Being about war and death doesn't make something serious.

>>72875000
"serious" doesn't systematically mean "directly relevant to real-life current-day issues"

generally speaking, "serious" simply means "played straight"

>>72875000
Trips of truth, but the trannies in this thread will probably still argue with you.

>>72874990
>in the grim darkness of the future, there is only war

soooo serious

>>72875000
>rarely serious
So what is serious to you?
Because the line in the far future there is only war is quite a serious statement.

>>72875000
>Being about war and death doesn't make something serious.
no, the tone does. And the tone is serious.

>>72875024
This is just memery. You people really have no idea what you are saying.

>>72875038
>Because the line in the far future there is only war is quite a serious statement.
and to me that is prime tongue in cheek

Just going to say it. Its all the bronies, furries, /co/ck suckers and other fools latching onto 40k in the last decade that perpetuate this bullshit idea 40k is not a serious setting.

>>72875055
whether something is Tongue in cheek or not, isn't up for you to decide.
It describes the intent of the writers.

Your statement is nonsense; it's like saying "I don't care if you think that 1+1=2, according to me, you think that 1+1=3 so shut up"

>>72875055
How? do you even know what tongue in cheek means?
Grim dark is a meme you know post 40k.

>>72875076
pretty much

>>72874914
only good reply on this thread

>>72875038
Dune. Dune is genuinely what you get if you tried to write 40K not like a cartoon, because it's the primary influence for it.
>Because the line in the far future there is only war is quite a serious statement.
Honestly? I don't think it is. It's grim, and dark, but it's an element of the grand exaggeration and low feasibility inherent to 40K. There can be no peace. Rationality and reason cannot exist. The universe must be subservient to the narrative force of grimdarkness and only war to an often comical degree. This isn't a bad thing, by the way, it's part of what makes 40K enjoyable. 40K exists to tell stories about brightly-coloured supesoldiers punching each other and elves with mohawks. It dos not exist to be serious.

>>72875080
and I am saying the writers intended it as tongue in cheek

>>72875076
I painted my first Marine in 1997. 40K is not serious, fight me.

>>72875087
he describes it pretty well: >>72875104

>>72875110
Well I trust the writers' statements more than I trust your gut instinct

I will post Death to explain why we need serious settings like 40k
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AnaQXJmpwM4

We need our serious settings. Not every setting has to be post modern calart cartoon.
We need our LotRs and 40ks.
It's ok if you don't like it but quit this continual obsession with trying to diminsh a setting out of fear.

>>72875104
>>72875130

There's no such thing as an inherently comical degree.

Something can only be comical through contrast, proper timing and reversal of expectations. It has to be a constructed joke.

And the jokes are only occasional, they are not the norm.

>40K exists to tell stories about brightly-coloured supesoldiers punching each other and elves with mohawks.
usually, those stories are serious

Are you fags not able to comprehend tone?

>>72875167
>Are you fags not able to comprehend tone?
I think it is you who ist not able to do that

>>72875104
The construction of Dune is every bit as wacky as the construction of 40k.

Dune is not "high feasability", it's not rational or reasonable, it's subservient to the narrative force of a cosmic drama where humanity is doomed to oppress itself.

The only difference is that 40k has more jokes.

>>72875166
Firstly, Death is talking about belief there, more specifically belief in abstract concepts and the myths surrounding them. Do you believe in 40K?

Secondly, LotR is very serious. 40K is not.

>>72875201
That's because you're the one who's unable to do it.

Tone is communicated through the writing style, which you are completely ignoring. Therefore I must conclude that you're in fact unable to recognize tone.

>>72875167
>tone
The tone of 40K isn't serious though. This is the primary thing that makes 40K not serious.

>>72875209
sure
40k is merely mostly serious as opposed to very serious

>>72875230
It very much is serious though. You only get little tidbits of comedic writing like euphemisms and hyperboles.

>>72875209
You are an absolute fucking idiot.

>>72875222
Maybe we have just been reading different 40k. Or you have been reading yours wrong. I actually think that might be the case. I think you are taking all those over the top, intentionally ramped up to 11 stories a little bit too serious. And that's why you fail to see where more objective people are coming from.

>>72875235
40k is a fucking comedy if you take more than a first glance at it, but I think the problem of all you "40k is a serious setting, it has death and war and stuff" guys is that you can't see beyond the surface and read between the lines.

>>72875277
You're actually incapable of understanding tone

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Oh my god, shut up you faggots.
The real truth here is that 40k, just like Fantasy before it, is an inherently silly setting, but its charm comes from the fact it applies a grim and dour tone over it all and takes the incredibly ridiculous happenings that comprise its whole as seriously as possible. This is a game where your 8 foot super soldiers larping as knights who kill more civilians than they save use oversized chainsaws to gut orcs with miniguns that are also part mushroom and have the attitudes of soccer hooligans before they're both incinerated by a magic fireball cast from a space elf before it too is incinerated by an Egyptian themed terminator and its green neon jizz. It's a setting where a 100 million innocent people are killed by 10-000 year old half-demon drug addicts with guitars so loud they flay people with a single strum. When I describe it like that it sounds hilariously silly right? But the catch is it takes itself seriously. No eyerolls to the camera, no laughing at the funny cockney orcs. When you take a step back, you can appreciate the sheer absurdity of what's happening and laugh, which is where nearly all of the memes and in-jokes of the franchise come from, but when you read the stories and play the games, you can put that all aside because the stories are confident in what they're telling.
40k isn't serious, but it markets itself as exactly that, which makes it cool because you can simultaneously laugh at the absurdity of the situation unfolding in the wargame you're playing as your band of blueberry mecha communists blast a group of thousand-year-old mutant space marines from halfway across the table in turn 3, whilst also being fully engrossed in the story and characters of a supplementary novel or game you're following.

Now shut up and give Games Workshop your money in exchange for little plastic men like the good little whales they know you to be.

>>72875209
Death is talking about believing in fantasy as part of belief in abstract concepts and the world.
40k is a fantasy. It also aligns witn Deaths statement there is no justice in 40k but the characters beliefs.
That is why people like 40k. They like the Space marine is full of moral outrage and there is something to fight for. They like the seriousness and the themes.
Frankly you seem autistic.

>>72875277
You only think it's the case because you haven't read anything Priestley wrote about the setting, and also because you have an inherent bias against things that aren't directly relevant to the real world.
All those things prevent you from being objective, and thus, prevent you from evaluating the tone correctly.

So you really come from a place of poor understanding of the source material. I advise not trusting your own judgement on that one.

>>72875295
You havent read a single thing about 40k other thand 1d4chan and 40k youtubers have you?

>>72875247
I wouldn't contest that you can focus in to write a serious story in the setting. But the central conceits are not serious. The setting bends completely around the narrative impetus to create radical or silly moments, often becoming comical in the process. Massive death tolls and such are treated as random bits of information to throw around without restraint, simply to make points or to tell the reader how epic something was.
>>72875252
Nice point.

>>72875295
You sound like a prententious twat.

>>72875295
>read between the lines
dude
40k isn't a fucking XIX century comedy of manners, the jokes are very blunt and very obvious

>>72875323
I think I have read a lot more 40k than you, because if I haven't I fear you lack basic reading comprehension beyond that of a 3rd grader.

>>72875316
>Death is talking about believing in fantasy as part of belief in abstract concepts and the world.
Sorry dude, but there's a distinct line between the kind of myths Death is talking about there and stuff like 40K. 40K doesn't tell us anything about ourselves or help us. It's very different from believing in an abstract concept like justice. It's not even something people believe in.

The Hogfather is an analogue to things humans actually have some belief in. Not to a franchise of sci-fantasy fiction designed to sell toys.

>>72875324
No. Occasionally being comical.
>Massive death tolls and such are treated as random bits of information to throw around without restraint, simply to make points or to tell the reader how epic something was.
and it's fucking nothing compared to what Arjuna pulls in the Mahabharata.

It's like

you went to school
and nobody told you about what "epic" writing is.
So now
when you see it
you misinterpret it as comedy

>>72875341
Most people miss the humour though. They think the Imperium having some redundant aspect is a strike against humanity rather than a general ironic joke against beaurocratic corruption etc.

>>72875366
You really are a dull shitposter. 40k is a fantasy people indulge in just like Discworld.
Deaths entire point is we need things like 40k to understand stuff.
Not everything has to be what you wish it was.

>>72875372
>and it's fucking nothing compared to what Arjuna pulls in the Mahabharata.
I've actually read the Mahabharata, Arjuna's feats via Brahmastra are quite tame in 40K, if you're going by pure destruction and death as a measuring stick.

>>72875366
Wrong, 40k certainly contains a lot of assumptions about humanity and its morality. 40k does make statements about what humanity is capable of, what its values are really worth, and they're extremely pessimistic statements.

>>72875366
Humans don't believe in war? death? faith? duty? humans don't believe in the future?

>>72875402
And I also have, killing a hundred thousand guys in one go, several times in a row, is definitely big by 40k standards.

>>72875409
I find it quite optmistic actually. 40k is probably the worst setting ever written. As in the most unforgiving "spiteful" setting and humanity still manages to endure.

>>72875374
it really is both, you know.

>>72875427
But entire planets get wiped constantly in 40K.

>>72875429
well no, it doesn't manage. It's fucked. Even the Emperor exists solely because humanity is unsustainable in its current state and needs to become a psychic race

>>72875433
Mostly when i hear people say that they say look the Imperium is shit.
rather than noting a gigantic paper pushing organisation will intrinsically fail due to its size. As will any massive amount of data being organised.

>>72875435
not by a single dude, and not so casually

>>72875310
This is by far the most correct post in this thread. 40K is silly but takes its silliness seriously.

>>72875447
Its survived for 40k years. Still fighting
see >>72874740

>>72874937
I have a personal theory that the Teletubbies are immature Muton Soldiers from Xcom.

>>72875449
Yes, and going back to Aristotle, when that failure is the result of idiocy, it's comedy, when it's the result of overwhelming circumstances, it's tragedy
so by your standards it's tragedy

>the 40k is sillllly fags turn up
This is always funny.

>>72875469
Still in the process of being wiped out yeah

>>72875429
>40k is probably the worst setting ever written. As in the most unforgiving "spiteful" setting and humanity still manages to endure.

Read up on the lore of Total Annihilation.

>>72874779

>my only understanding of comedy is children cartoons

>>72874801

By that standard, Ass Goblin from Auschwitz is a serious book

>>72875209
You seem to think belief just means religous belief. Death isn't talking about religious belief you moron. Santa claus and the tooth fairy isn't a religion. 40k isn't a religion either its a fantasy.

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Dont mind me just watching the autism

40k is about as serious as Robocop. I'll let you process that however you like.

>>72875341

Which makes it baffling when zoomers can't get it

>>72875608
It's more like terminator.

>British made dozens of fictional works that are comedic
>they make a serious work
>people misunderstand it is as purely comedic.

>>72874861
That's so stupid, do you also think that HFY exist because humans are REALLY underdogs in sci-fi and people that disagree hate humans?

>>72875648
Yes they are misanthropic neckbeards that dress up as animals and have gay sex.

>>72875648
>implying misanthropy is not common among nerds
HFY is a misanthropic meme.

>>72871893
>>72871859
>>72873173
>>72873295
>>72874598
These are people that litteraly only really know Star Wars and WH40K and maybe Mass Effect, so they have no idea what a serious sci-fi tone is.

>>72875684
What is a setting more serious than 40k?

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A lot of people in this thread don't understand what seriousness is.

40K is silly. Almost every element of the lore is silly. However, it conducts itself in a way that is confident and forthright, rather than continually winking at the metaphorical camera. As such, it is possible believe in all this silliness and accept that while everything that is going on is quite silly, the characters are justified in taking it all with deadly seriousness.

>>72875703
I completely disagree. Rather it's a serious setting that continually winks at the reader.
Like Landraiders being named after a guy called Land.

>>72875690
Most actual hard sci-fi is far more serious.

The example that comes to my head is Blindsight or the Imperial Radch novels.

>>72875738
We aren't gauging the level of hardness of the scifi but the seriousness if the setting itself.
You can have a hard scifi setting that is completely light hearted because it's set in a utopia.

>>72875658
Of course HFYfags and "WH40k is serious bussiness"fags are the same...
>>72875667
How? it's always "humans are super badass for "once" because they are totally underdogs in sci-fi and not almot always the leader race and if you disagree you must hare humanity!"

>>72875737
Nyart, but the setting, in setting, is deadly serious and approached as such, but the reader gets the silliness of it (if they aren't as stupid as most posters on /tg/).

>>72875767
You can, but the general tendency of hard sci is to ask questions about the nature of humanity and society, and what the future holds.

That's sort of what sci-fi as a genre is.

Which, by the way, 40k isn't even sci-fi. It's space fantasy.

>>72871780
40K is about as serious as Overwatch.

>>72875804
No 40k is scifi. It adheres well to scifi. I've seen hard science fans post examples of scifi that was more ludicrous than 40k.

There seems to be a group of people that really seem to be afraid of 40k being viewed seriously.
Who ever could they be...

>>72875899
TRANNIES!

>>72872003
the butthurt this caused on the autists

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>>72874914
> DOOM
DOOM 2016, yes, Eternal fucked up the Lore imo.
Don't give Doomguy a backstory and if you have to, don't make it fucking boring

>>72875953
Doom 3 has the tone 40k had at it's peak.

Warfare and death do not make a serious setting, they way discuss the subject does. A setting that happily informs us that "That life is the Emperor's currency, spend it well" is not going to seriously discuss the impact of conflict on the lives of soldiers or civilians in the majority of its books or background (which it doesn't).

>>72871780
A serious question for the fine gentlemen here:
would you say that Robocop is more serious than Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy?

>>72876102
Why? It's just the philosophy in Starship troopers.

>>72875899
Anyone not a zoomer? Grogs certainly are gonna sensible chuckle at the absurdity of it all, while similtaneously autistically describing what campaigns their donut steel chapter's fought in.

>>72876124
Do you think wearing a tutu or a suit makes people take you more seriously?

>>72876147
I think wearing a suit makes people take you more seriously. Exceptions exist, but they'd be very rare.

>>72876140
people that say zoomer without fail are always "zoomers" themselves.

>>72876135
Straship Troopers (the book) explains in depth the system of government Earth has, how citizenship is granted by state service which is largely military and entirely voluntary. And that's a very brief and shallow summary.
40k doesn't dwell on the politics of the Imperium in particular, there are no dialogues between characters in most books discussing the merits of their feudal-theocratic-oligarchic-x political system. Conscription not, voluntary service is rife in 40k. The similarities between the two things are superficial at best.

Unless you're talking about the film, which is of course similar to 40k in the way it mocks authoritarianism and militarism, though at a much more overt and constant level.

>>72876206
One of the central themes of ST is wagering your life.

>>72876206
>he thinks 40k is more similar to the film than the book.
Oh you can't be this stupid oh dear...

>>72876163
Nah, started collecting in 97. Not quite a grog, need to work on the beard and belly, also get into obscure time period HWG.

>>72876223
And how many people in 40k get a chance to wager it? What choices do most people in the Imperium have to make in their lives?

>>72876234
In what ways is it similar to the book?
Starship Troopers posits a better society and political system than we have now. 40k does the opposite of that. If all you took from reading it and 40k stuff, is men slaughtering aliens then I don't know anon.

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>all those gothic nu-W40k teens saying the setting is serious
Back to r*ddit

Warhammer40k focuses on COOL to the exclusion of literally everything else. If something could be COOL in any context, it's put in there along all the other eclectic COOL things, to make a fun setting that titillates the player/reader/whatever with its COOLness. Even the comic book inspired art style is COOL rather than anything else.
It is by no means a bad focus, as evidenced by the widespread acclaim of the setting, but such a setting cannot also be serious.

>>72875840
40k was literally described by it's creator as science fantasy.

>>72876298
No one has any choice in 40k because the 40k galaxy is an evil setting. The galaxy is a million times worse than ST. People don't have the luxury to not fight. Thats one of the messages of 40k.
But the Emperor rewards those who wager their life in defence of the Imperium literally blessing them.
So anyone that doesn't turntail is wagering their life.

And the shit movie was made in 1997 well after 40k started solidifying its themes. Well after the much mentioned satirical period.
So logically 40k entirely draws from the book.

>>72876373
Fantasy and scifi can overlap.

I can feel Mark Spark's presence in this thread.

>>72876301
>all these contrarian redditors pretending not to be redditors saying 40k isn't serious
How do you do fellow 40k fans the post.

>>72876436
Explain

>>72876418
Except we know the Emperor's blessing doesn't extend to the majority of Guardsmen being slaughtered in their millions daily. Are these indoctrinated soldiers who know that retreating without orders is a more certain death than advancing wagering anything? On the other hand there are those who do have the luxury not to fight. Imperial society is hereditary as fuck as well as being nepotistic, it designed by the authors to be hellish corrupt with most of the Imperium running along with minimal meritocracy involved.

You wanna be Sky Marshal? Best have served at a high rank in the M.I and Fleet. Wanna be the Generalissimo of most planets PDFs (let alone a High Lord), you'd best hope Uncle Quintus sent that letter of reccomendation off in time. The novel wanks over high tech shit, while the Ad-Mech annoints on buttons. Either you've read neither Starship Troopers or any 40k novels or your comprehension of literature is awful.

>>72876496
guy who made the death of hope 30k fan animation, goes on long winded rants about how warhammer isn't grimdark anymore and how the new stuff is all silly and awful. i get the impression he hates TTS and all the community jokes because it gives new players the wrong impression about the setting.

>>72876624
I'm baffled by you people that interpret 40ks setting as a strike against the political sytem in the setting rather than the galaxy itself.
Your issue seems entirely about attack the Imperium rather than acknowledging the galaxy is a horrible place.
Which is the major driver of why the Imperium is harsh,
And its not true in 40k there is freedom but what is the point of it if your life is at risk from everything in the setting?
Your entire predication is measuring the freedom of the Imperium, Its a wartime setting in total war freedom is meaningless. You really just fail to understand 40k and need to read more.

>>72876624
The Imperium fro the guardsman to the battlecruiser is a giant manifestation of the Emperors will and the faith in him.
So the guardsmen fighting for him are recieving his blessing they are an extension of him.
Thats why theres fucking skulls on everything the skulls are the Emperor!

>>72876704
There definately seems to be a drive to cheapen the setting. It had a peak of perfect gothic scifi by 1997.
Now I notice in the community page theres an almost cringe worthy obsession with taking the piss out of the Imperium.

Just point out the irony that most fan creations tend to want to portray 40k as dark and grim and serious as possible.
Look at Astartes etc. I think the actual fans know the truth...

>>72876760
The galaxy is right shit hole to live in sure, but the Imperium acts in an excessive manner, time and time again. The Imperium is genocidally inept regarding the management of it's own people, and this attitude from the high ups in Imperial society is one of the first things Guilliman tries to change.

Guilliman's return also shows it. The galaxy is far shitter since the Great Rift has opened, but the tone of the setting is now less Grim Dark because of Guilliman's return and the reforms he's enacting. This clearly shows that a better Imperium is possible, not a democracy or anything retardedly tone deaf like that, but a better system none the less.

>>72877346
Even Guilliman has come to understand that Imperium is the way it is because the galaxy is not what it was like before the HH.
The humour in the setting is dark gallows humour familiar to people of British culture.
When you are on your way to be executed there isn't much else to do have humour.
My point is the Imperium has no choice to be the way it is.
Imagine a situation you had no choice.
As i few it thats always been the theme of 40k you fight because you must fight and fighting for a thing greater than yourself seems wholly alien to people nowadays.
People fight in 40k because individuals freedoms and rights do not matter in total war, even the marines freedoms and rights do not matter.
Do i think the imperium could be a better place? sure after they deal with all the threats and not before. The Imperium is the way it is because it must be that way for humanity to survive.

Thats not even getting into how misguided raising living standards in 40k could be.
Imagine making life better in the Imperium inceases population sizes ten fold. That would be a galaxy wide disaster in itself.

>>72877528
The Imperium has never really been portrayed as having no choice. Its incredible stagnation and inefficiency is a joke, and the mistakes it has made have contributed heavily to making the galaxy the way it is in the 41st millennium.

This is the entire theme of the Imperium. Man hobbling himself through collective stupidity, fear, and dogma.

>>72876760
>I'm baffled by you people that interpret 40ks setting as a strike against the political sytem
It's how the people that made the game interpreted it, so it shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

>>72877584
Fuck off you funamentally do not get 40k and are headcanoning.
Of course the Imperium has no choice.
If they put down their arms theres a million thing outside it and within that will wipe it out.

No really you just din't get it. The fear is real, the faith is real. The Imperium is like a psychic manifestation of humanity trying to defend itself against absolute horror in every direction.
Even if you don't believe that the Emperor literally helps the Imperium navigate with his light. Holding it together.
I really can't understand people like you. This is a setting where the threats are real. The consequences are real. Bitching about the freedom index is humourous in itself.

>>72875690

Foundation series is a good start, as well as Frank Herbert's Dune Saga.

W40K is a ridiculous setting, enjoyable but ludicrous.
>Everyone worships a skeleton chieftain
>no one knows exactly why he's a skeleton
>Those who understandably got it wrong (because no one told them about the web plan) are pissed off, and subsequently called heretics
>entire factions regularly split off from imperium because no one told them actual obvious reasons why cannibalis/murder/general thottery were bad, other than NO
>alien racism is both entirely memetical and unironic simultaneously
>in a universe where prejudice between races could be construed as sensible, all the races choose the stupid reasons
>humanity has degraded into a corrupt nobility
>weaponry is entirely rule of cool
>the concept of chaos in the series matches this rule of cool weaponry like it's the bloodiest WWE match you've ever seen
>Orks subsist entirely on a gore based version of spiral power
>arks of dead corpses exist waiting to wake up on arbitrary o clock
>there's only one sensible faction, and they're entirely ridiculous because of how stupid it is to be sensible and pragmatic in this setting
>entire universe started off as an in joke of what circlejerking over Thatcher's regressive policies would eventually lead to
>despite this, people unironically believe that factions in this setting are "right", insofar as being the most sensible retard in the ballpit full of vomit and shit

It's a bizarre setting. It's as serious a setting as the Wayfarer series is conservative.

>>72877584
>inefficency
the Imperium is literally the most efficient machine ever made at what it does,
Fighting war and killing.

>>72877675
Nobody has said the Imperium should put down their arms. Yes, the setting has threats, but the Imperium is dealing with them in the least effective way imaginable. It wastes resources and manpower fighting every single dinky little alien civilization, even those that are no threat. It literally cannot into technological progress and fights against being more efficient. It creates the best possible circumstance for Chaos to thrive and in doing so feeds its enemies constantly.

And it doesn't even protect humanity. The vast majority of mankind in 40K lives a fruitless, short, existence in slave labour conditions, working to uphold a system that is crumbling apart and cannot be saved.

>>72877691
>know ones know why
Except they do know. The skull motif in the imperium is analogous with the cross.

>>72877697
The Imperium sucks at fighting wars efficiency. For one, it constantly fights wars it doesn't even need to bother with, and when it does get to fighting important conflicts, it wins only through a gratuitous spending of resources that it cannot actually keep up forever. The Imperium is bleeding itself dry. Every edition has made a point of how it is in the final stages of civilizational collapse and is coming apart at the seams.

>>72871994
Astartes is literally cartoony garbage designed to make low IQ people clap.

>>72877764

The entire Horus Heresy happened because Horus thought the Emperor was pulling a fast one, and naturally went ballistic, so obviously not everyone knows what he's doing.

>>72877735
No, thats wrong and this is typical of people do not get 40k and just want to constantly bash the imperium.
The inefficiencies you percieve are learned failsafe mechanisms that the Imperium has adapted over thousands of years.
>literally cannot into technological progress
Hello primaris? of course it can. The IoM chooses not to pursuse rampant technological progression for the same reasin the real workd has a non proloferation pact.
>the best possible circumstance
Ahh another Chaos takes root in the lower class socialist tard.
Chaos takes root in the nobility typically. Then they corrupt from top down.
And what do you think would happen if the Imperium unlocked all it technological innovation?
What hallened during the Horus Heresy when half the imperium turned traitor? they used tjose weapons agaisnt the loyalists.
Maybe you can understand why these deliberate "inefficiencies" exist

>>72875038
>the line in the far future there is only war is quite a serious statement.
That's grim, but it's not serious. Try reading it to one of your parents.

>>72877788
The entire HH happened because Horus got corrupted by chaos.
and i dont want to hear what ever bullshit the BL authors wrote about the Emperor being the bad guy.
Chaos corrupts and the traitors were corrupted.

>>72877528
He definitely has had to compromise, certainly with his dislike of the Imperial Creed. Still Guilliman's reforms resulted in a conspiracy (the Hexarchy) which would have caused a civil war if not for the Grand Master of Assassins being a double agent. The problem is that a large proportion of the people who have the freedoms to choose to serve things greater than themselves simply do not. High Lords, Governors, Cardinals and nobles are mainly self serving and corrupt, and rarely appointed because of their skills. Those whose lives are on the line are typically indoctrinated conscripts and gene modified giants who do feel as humans do. The conscripts have been force fed lies from birth about the Imperium and cannot typically imagine an alternative better existence. Space Marines are children taken from primitive societies and brainwashed into autistic levels of compliance.

You cannot truly fight for a thing greater than yourselves if you can't make that choice freely. This is why modern militaries have abandoned conscripts in active warfare and is a big partof the philosophical message in ST.

And yeah, 40k is definitely all about dark tongue in cheek humour, which is why I feel it compares poorly with ST, which is by and large a serious endeavour and reaction to the pacifism of the time it was written.

Also back to Guilliman: the 500 worlds are considered enlightened, meritocratic and utopian by the standards of 40k. They are in fact amusingly the the perfect comparison to the future that Heinlein was promoting all along in ST (which is in contrast to the rest of the Imperium).
>>72876837
wut?

>>72875000
Check those trips, this is absolutely the truth

>>72877879
Ok, tranny. Try dilating.

>>72877850
>just want to constantly bash the imperium
The Imperium *should* be bashed, you faggot.

This is why rightard /pol/fags are cancer.

>>72877897
You fail because like a lot of people in this thread you inject your politics into the setting.
40k isn't about politics.
>This is why modern militaries have
Well no shit theres no situation since ww2 where conscription was needed but one day maybe a group of people will need it.
Thats the situation the IoM is in a choice bewteen death and surviving.
>you cannot fight if you aren't free
Then you die. Thats what happens in 40k you get enslaved by demons and murdered or eaten.

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>>72871780
Try Alastair Reynolds 'Revelation Space'. It's basically a hard(ish) sci-fi version of W40K, but without an ounce of comedy and hope in it.

>>72877850
>The inefficiencies you percieve are learned failsafe mechanisms
No, they are not. They are genuinely referred to as fuckups by actual lore.
>Hello primaris?
Yes, something that required a fucking Primarch waking up and overruling everyone to happen. Congratulations, you've played yourself.
>The IoM chooses not to pursuse rampant technological progression for the same reasin the real workd has a non proloferation pact
It doesn't "choose not to pursue rampant technological progression", it fights rabidly against ANY technological progression. If you think otherwise you are a nulore kid.
>Ahh another Chaos takes root in the lower class socialist tard.
It takes root in all classes because the Imperium is geared toward making it easy for Chaos to influence people.
>And what do you think would happen if the Imperium unlocked all it technological innovation?
>What hallened during the Horus Heresy when half the imperium turned traitor? they used tjose weapons agaisnt the loyalists.
This is so retarded, I could believe an actual Imperial official said it. We didn't stop innovating in WWII just in case the Germans managed to steal ideas or plans. It is fucking retarded to stall scientific progression for this reason, especially if you're stalling stuff that isn't weaponized too - which the Imperium does.

I swear to god, you people sound like actual Imperial nobles that drink the kool aid.

Austistic /pol/fags try to defend their super-serious-not-at-all-funny-seriously-guys-stop-laughing take on 40K: The Thread

Edgelord faggots btfo, 40K is satire. Deal with it.

>>72878000
and there it is why we cant have nice things. A retarded leftist injecting his politics into 40k.

>>72878026
It was injected at inception. You are the only one perverting the setting by demanding that the Imperium are faultless good guys because you personally identify with its politics.

>>72877926
>b-b-but 40K is super-serious, stop laughing at me! Y-y-you're a tranny!
/pol/faggots absolutely destroyed

>>72878026
>"injecting his politics into 40K"
>"no the Imperium are good and necessary, NO it's not funny it's super-serious, NO NO NO SHUT UP TRANNY LEFTIST"

project harder kid

>>72877883
No from my point of view it is you who is evil!

>>72871780
Foundation
The Forever War
Three Body Problem (arguably)

>>72878018
You are fucking retarded and dont get 40k.
The IoM like i just said you actual kid deliberatly inhibits technology so the weapons DO NOT GET USED AGAINST THEM
Its not even the IoM doing its the Ad Mech.
Technological progress does not equal win. They have plenty of advanced tech and it hasnt changed the situation any more.
>takes root in all classes because the Imperium is geared toward making it easy for Chaos to influence people.
Where do you get these retarded ideas from? the entire Imperium is orientated around nuking chaos from high orbit.
They have a literal org dalled the Inquisition that hunts it down.
You seem to think chaos is a liberation movement. Chaos is a path to mass death.
>This is so retarded, I could believe an actual Imperial official said it.
Jesus you just get worse with each stupid reply,
Thats the lore. You headcanon brainlet fuckwit,
The Dark ad mech took...half of all the death rays and fired them at the Imperium.
Abaddon literally drives around in a planet killer ship.

Where the fuck do you kiddies get your lore from?

>>72878128
autist /pol/faggot triggered

40K was written to shit on edgelords like you

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>>72871780
>serious sci fi setting with grim outlook
There's a perfect fit for this description. You're not going to like it.

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>>72878128

>>72878149
I know this is trolling but probably some of you fags actually think a "edgy" setting was made to some how ridicule the people enjoying it.
Kinda like asking for pizza and getting the best pizza made.

My theory is that seriousposter is a single transsexual zoomer, who wants to prove to xir parents that xir recently discovered setting is a display of the seriousness of xir tragic condition, rather than a giant fun joke on the absurdities and perversities of humanity (as presented through both Chaos and the Empire that feeds it with every action it takes). Estrogen injections have rotted xir brain.

>leftists interpretation of 40k is purely political
hmm yes if only every imperial citzien has free money and education they would not turn to chaos.
Because chaos doesn't corrupt college students and socialists

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-AVloqiXdk0

>>72878005
>You fail because like a lot of people in this thread you inject your politics into the setting.
40k isn't about politics.
Yet you have mentioned both fighting for a greater thing than oneself, conscription and total mobilisation of the state. If these things are political, what is?

>Well no shit theres no situation since ww2 where conscription was needed but one day maybe a group of people will need it.
Thats the situation the IoM is in a choice bewteen death and surviving.
Perhaps 40k would require pressganging, I'll agree to that as well as worlds under attack raising conscripts/reservists as well as worlds near them. But 40k is a universe where COs are given medals for achieving objectives swiftly even if it was stupid costly with reinforcements perhaps being months or years away.

This is a setting where:
> Several artillery and siege companies begin to bombard the city spires and both rebels and inhabitants were mercilessly gunned down as they tred to break out from the besieged city. After five years of relentless shelling, the rebels offered their unconditional surrender to the Imperium; they were ignored, and the shelling continued for another five years. All signs of life in the hive ceased after just three, but the bombardment still continued for another two years.
Happened, it's retarded and inefficient, but awesome.
>Then you die. Thats what happens in 40k you get enslaved by demons and murdered or eaten.
Oh you can fight if you're not free, but there's NO STAKES if you're a mindlessly suicidal Krieg shitter for example. The DKoK are an NPC faction, you wouldn't want to read a series of books from their perspective after all.

>>72878271
>iom feeds chaos
>slaanesh was made by space elves
Oki doki commie.

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>>72878271
>Estrogen injections have rotted xir brain.
It happens.

>>72878240
Except it was, though. The creators of 40K and 80s British sci-fi overall were left-leaning Brits who sought to, and succeeded in, satirizing the predominantly conservative sociopolitics of the era through taking it to a logical extreme so wildly antithetical to a rational, sane human outlook that the ideological baseline ideas would stand exposed as equally antithetical.

The idea that anyone seeks to defend the Imperium is not a sign that this was not their intention, or that they failed. It simply exposes the defenders as irrational and insane, regardless of whether that springs from earnest belief or mere contrarianism.

>>72873570
Well you see we've actually played it and read the codexes and such.

>>72878271
Occam's Razor indicates that seriousposter is completely earnest in being a rightard /pol/faggot.

Furthermore, Occam's Razor also indicates that you are likely also a rightard /pol/faggot who is indulging in pure projection or a hilariously transparent attempt at reflection/misdirection.

Cope.

>>72878128
>The IoM like i just said you actual kid deliberatly inhibits technology so the weapons DO NOT GET USED AGAINST THEM
This is so incredibly wrong. Everything you claim is pure headcanon.

>>72878296
Now who's injecting politics into 40K, rightard?

>>72878296
I mean if I worked 12+ hour days and lived in broom cupboard and ate recycled humans, I migh, throw my lot in with anyone offering something different no matter how sketchy.

>>72878302
>Yet you have mentioned both fighting for a greater thing than oneself, conscription and total mobilisation of the state. If these things are political, what is
what about no choice dont you understand? it literally does not matter which political paint you put on the Imperium it lives or dies by how many soldiers it can muster.

40k is a different time. Compare it to ww1 where thousands marched to war to defend their countries and died in droves,
Its easy to judge them and the decision making but people fought for different values.

I don't trust a single brat born post 90s to appreciate the courage that soldiers had during ww1
>Oh you can fight if you're not free, but there's NO STAKES if you're a mindlessly suicidal Krieg shitter for example. The DKoK are an NPC faction, you wouldn't want to read a series of books from their perspective after all.
You fight because you are part of the Imperium and you are defending it. Honestly free food is great dont what know what you are complaining about.
If you live you get to retire and wack off to sororitas for the rest of your life.

>>72878381
no you are right if we just knock down the privilege barriers or sime shit daemons wont eat peoples brains.

>>72878370
It's a waste of time trying to argue with seriousposter, he's an autist /pol/faggot edgelord.

I recognize his histrionic posting style, sloppy rage-caused misspellings and grammatical errors everywhere, and hilarious sperging-out as soon as anyone contradicts him. He haunts this kind of thread and shits everywhere as soon as anyone even vaguely contradicts his headcanon.

>>72878394
Chaos will corrupt no matter your situation, .chaos is chaos,
It will still find a way to corruot you. Its usually decadent self indulgent and "free" people that it appeals to.

>>72878433
Desperate people are more likely to revolt. Considering Chaos is the metaphysical incarnation of revolution, if you remove the material conditions that cause revolution, you defang Chaos. Such conditions include everything the Imperium imposes on the vast majority of its subjects.

The Imperium causes its own problems.

>>72878414
>I don't trust a single brat born post 90s to appreciate the courage that soldiers had during ww1
You weren't alive then either, so you're talking out of your ass.

>>72878370
No it isnt you faggot. Every time a planet goes traitor they lose all the weapons and resources with it.
Its in their best interest to reduce the spread of advanced weaponry.
Its just war.

>>72878481
>chaos is the incarnation of revolution
omg you actually think chaos is communist?
Chaos just wants to kill everyone.
Its like a guy knocking on your window saying let me in
Lmao

Man, there's always one guy like this, isn't there? They get into 40K because they see the surface iconography and assume that the setting is about their fascist daydreams being morally imperative, and then when it is revealed to them that 40K was created as a scathing parody of everything they love they go into full mental disorder mode.

I actually think it reflects really well on the setting. The original team had such a good understanding of how far righters think and how propaganda operates that they made something actually able to dupe people. Incredible.

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>>72878537
>revolution
>automatically communist
You are shockingly dim, anon.

>>72878481
The onoy way to "defang" chaos is to fight it and believe in something greater than yourself.
Hence the Imperium and their faith. Manifesting literal miracles.
The Emperor tried mass ignorance as a weapon and it failed.

>>72878507
The Mechanicus suspicion of technology comes from a literal dogmatic belief that humanity already reached the highest technological high-water mark and that any deviation from the extant STC templates is evil simply because it is different, not for any "practical" reasons.

Your argument is wrong, and piss-poor to boot.

>>72878414
'fraid I was born in 1990. Not sure how being born in that decade would allow me to appreciate the horrors of the Western Front more though than a Zoomer. I mean as far as I understand Tommy Atkins fought for a mix of the following:
Remember Belgium (which I guess also includes defending France)
Patriotic Pride and defence of the Empire
A swift end to the war (feel free to drop this attitude by 1915)
To prevent the expansion of Germany
To not be given a feather
A sense of adventure

People fought for different values back then sure, but certainly we know a lot of those who fought also considered it senseless. If you want to read something about the senselessness of war have you tried All Quiet on the Western Front? It's a sombre look at a German soldier's experience during WW1, but lacks the tasteless over the top heroics you find in less serious artistic depictions of warfare.

>>72878552
This thread should be archived, and brought up in every other thread that deals with the "is 40K serious" question, if not outright pinned to the top of the board.

>>72878569
Look you dumb ass chaos is not the spirit of revolution.
Its an insurgency but its a ticking time bomb of mass death.

>>72878507
By this logic, the best way to operate is to not have weapons. Which is clearly retarded. The Imperium doesn't restrict technology out of any kind of pragmatism - they don't even just restrict weapons, after all. They fight against technological progress because they have a cargo cult religion infesting their infrastructure, and its retarded dogma makes technological progress extremely slow.

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>>72871780

>>72875690
Halo

>>72878610
Chaos the disruption of order in raw, abstract form. Yes, one of the many, many things it represents is revolution.

>>72878584
No thats the surface reading. The ad mech boys in reality have all the answers they just refrain from using it.
Again retard its the non-proliferation analogy.
Go read some actual lore ffs. stop reading reddit.

>>72878414
>Compare it to ww1 where thousands marched to war to defend their countries and died in droves
...And become so disillusioned with war that they completely changed the entire direction of western thought.

>>72878552
That's a larp of yours though. I highly doubt the original team where thinking in terms of sticking it to the bipartisan bogeymen of the 21st century. Let alone as propaganda. They're probably amazed that anyone is reading it at all in 2020.

40k hasn't been parody ass Rogue Trader since second edition and they were being political it would be about Thatcher and shutting the mines not 'Nazi's'.

>>72878635
Nurgle is the aspect of stagnation. Khorne is the aspect of War. Slaanesh if decadence and Tzeentch of conspiracy.
None of this shit is about a revolution for society.
Its about death.

>>72878579
>to fight it and believe in something greater than yourself
That also includes every Chaos demagogue sincere in their belief and submission to the divine Pantheon or whichever god they choose.

>the Emperor tried mass ignorance as a weapon and it failed
So you're admitting that the Imperium, a regime literally built on keeping the masses ignorant, is a failure? Thanks for conceding the point.

>>72878662
>I highly doubt the original team where thinking in terms of sticking it to the bipartisan bogeymen of the 21st century
They were thinking of sticking it to the bipartisan bogeyman of the late 20th century, which was basically the same because conservatives don't change.

>>72878661
and then they had a war some years later even bigger than that. Try again.
The entire point as i said its easy for people to judge them now rubbing their manboibs and stroking their chodes to unlimited free porn.

>>72878639
>The ad mech boys in reality have all the answers they just refrain from using it
Disproven by every single piece of fluff imaginable.

For someone trying to say that other people need to read the fluff, you have a uniquely, remarkably shitty understanding of the fluff yourself.

>>72878671
You seem to think that when people say revolution, they mean something positive. Also, you've completely dumbed the Chaos Gods down in your attempts to win this argument. Yet more proof that you're a nulore child that got into the game six years ago at most.

>>72878456
So what your saying is that the people who run the IoM (who are decadent, indulgent and free) are the reason the Imperium is shit. Imagine this though - if they were more efficient and hard working like the common Imperial man, maybe a better Imperium could be built, not a retarded schizo one led by useless bureaucrats and luddite tech priests.

>>72878709
>and then they had a war some years later even bigger than that
Because they were forced to by a lunatic. You have a quite ridiculous view of history.

>>72878662
>>72878689
>the thatcher
More senile leftists dogpiling in from discord.
Its hilarious because they made the lore to chaos the most anti-leftist thing ive read.

>>72878709
Still doesn't change the fact that you weren't alive yourself and didn't personally fight in the war either.

You're just as much removed in time as the people you hate, and therefore just as wrong.

>>72871959

Compared to
> Foundation
> Dune
> Bladerunner
> The Expanse (TV series)
> Altered Carbon
> The Alien/Terminator/Predator shared universe
> the Ghost in the Shell setting

I mean those are the most popular ones from the top of my head, and the first two arent necessarily that contemporary (until the new Dune movie comes out). Holy fucking shit how are people this fucking dumb? Do you know anything besides the Marvel and DC cinematic universe?

>>72878739
Projection.

Just because you come here from /pol/ to shit up /tg/ doesn't mean anyone else is doing the same thing.

>>72878717
No im using revolution neutrally as its meaning.
An overturn and reordering of society.

Chaos just wants to kill billions of people and arrange their corpses in L O L to be seen from space.

Man, this schizoid DA MPERIUM GUD GUYS is the fucking embodiment of that one quote not from Derrida.

>>72871994

Lel no, how the fuck is this pastiche of 2000 AD serious in your mind? Is edgy serious to you?

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>>72878689
Have you any actual examples?

They were fond enough of Reagan who would have the average lefty nowadays shrieking.

For the record I am interested and pretty sure I remember some leftyposting in early White Dwarf opinion pieces.

>>72878736
by a lunatic? "a" you little shit? Kys

>>72878762
>hurr if you dont bash the impurrium you a nutzi hurr
Leftism not even once.

>>72878709
People judged them at the time though. The German people weren't defending shit, they decided to pick fights with the whole playground, then unsurprisingly lost.

>>72878759
Chaos wants a ton of shit, often completely contradictory because it is CHAOS. Either way, the Imperium is the perfect place for it to gestate - endless war to feed Khorne, total stagnation and omnipresent filth to empower Nurgle, constant scheming and labyrinthine bureaucracy plus the perfect conditions to spark revolution for Tzeentch, and of course an entire upper crust of degenerate hedonists with near unlimited power and resources to explore their desires, just waiting to fall to Slaanesh.

>>72878759
>"Chaos just wants to kill billions of people and arrange their corpses in LOL to be seen from space"
Literally a nulore child, like the other anon said.

>>72878689
do you fucks even know what bipartisan means?

>>72878771
You can just go find any interview with Rick Priestley. The Gates of Antares one is probably the most recent.

>>72878810
>"no the Imperium are good and necessary, NO it's not funny it's super-serious, NO NO NO SHUT UP TRANNY LEFTIST"

Cope, /pol/faggot

>>72878843
No.

>>72878843
Yes. The boogieman of that year in Britain was essentially the same as this one.

>>72878552
40k has become less overtly silly as the years have gone by. I could tell it was supposed to be over the top when I was 10 in 2002 and the angry space monks spent 4 hours a day thanking their bolters, and the evil KISS marines could kill you with their sweet riffs, you could move your ork vehicles faster if you painted them red, and there was a planet of gangs that dressed like different flavours of 80s sci fi set extras.

But not every writer has maintained that tone, and it has got on the whole more "serious business". Its still pretty silly, but less so on its surface than it used to be. I think some people got in to it for the surface stuff and are resistant to the idea that the rest of us like it but don't take it quite so seriously as them.The planet of 80s action hero dudes used to have a special rule where they might knife their nazi cosplaying disciplinarian and dump his body in a ditch if a superior officer wasn't watching. Some of the stuff they still put out has some of the black humour vibe to it, I challenge anyone to read the uplifting primer stuff and tell me that the setting is super serious, but GW have definitely been leaning that way more these days.

>>72878827
>>72878835
No really chaos has always just wanted to kill lots of people.
Theres the grey area where they swallow your world and rape and kill you for eternity and a few may become demons.
But their end goal is to kill the galaxy and cum on its corpse.

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>>72878748
TBF Alien/Terminator/Predator shared universe definitely feels similar to 40k (and also an influence). 40k was and still is inspired by 80s action heroes.

Can't fault any others though anon, truly 40k only seems dark and brooding to capeshitters.

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>>72878810

Literally letting them live rent free in your head.

>>72878892
This is your headcanon, anon.

>>72878917
Go on humour me what do you think chaos is actually about? UBI?

>>72878892
That's the inevitable end of Chaos. Chaos itself doesn't really want anything, elements of Chaos want different things.

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>>72878748
>serious scifi settings like Warhammer 40000

>>72875953
Doomguy always had a backstory though.

>>72878937
No thats really what chaos wants. They have done it before. shit they did it to wfb.

Their complex schemes boil down to a very basic kill everything motive.
And they enjoy the game of reaching that point.

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>>72871780
>serious scifi settings like Warhammer 40000

There are so many secondaries on this board now that have internalised years of memes and trash commentary on what 40k is.

The major issue i see is fucking retards cannot stop injecting their politics into 40k.

>>72878935
Chaos is about change, conflict, and impermanence, whether for the better or worse, on both micro and macro scales.

Read Michael Moorcock, a major influence on 40K and all contemporary scifi/fantasy generally. Order and Chaos are two polarities, and in between them is life. If Chaos won, there would be nothing, because everything would be formless and incoherent. If Order won, there would also be nothing, because everything would be locked into eternal stasis.

Good and Evil are subtypes. There can be Evil Order and Good Chaos just as readily as there can be Evil Chaos and Good Order.

>>72878967
Chaos victory always ends in an explosion due to the nature of Chaos. The beings that are part of Chaos tend to want a bunch of different stuff, for example Nurgle actually wants everything to stay the same forever in a constant bottomless downward spiral, but he can never have that... because Chaos.

Chaos is very clearly an existential threat to everything, but it doesn't just embody big explosion. Big explosion is what happens when it wins.

>>72879014
This is all correct, but it should be noted that 40K has moved somewhat away from the idea that Chaos is without alignment. There are still a few remnants of the idea that you don't have to be 100% evil to be a follower of Chaos, but they're rare now.

>>72879018
According to the lore Chaos victory is the 4 gods laughing their ass off at the dead galaxy and then using Tzeentch's tardis to travel to another universe to do it again.
They have done this countless times.

People used to think chaos killed itself but the lore evolved a bit so that chaos victory is literally a chaos victory.

>>72878889
I think part of the issue is fans becoming creators. They want the factions that they're fans of to be the good guys, so they forget the core thesis of the setting, and you start getting this confused mess that is developing now.

>>72879014
Chaos moorcock and chaos 40k are not the same.
Chaos moorcock was more elemental.

>>72879042
Whatever direction 40K may or may not be taking in the present day still doesn't invalidate either its origins or the massive body of lore from that time.

The old stuff is still canon.

>>72879090
Nope and the moorcock chaos was never canon.
Chaos in moorcock has a totally different meaning.

>>72879078
Doesn't matter, the creators of 40K drew heavily on Moorcock's ideas and body of work to make 40K, so that idea of elemental Chaos is still inherently part of 40K's interpretation.

Cope.

>>72879103
see
>>72879115
>>72879090
and cope.

>>72879103
Moorcock Chaos absolutely was and is canon, lorelet.

>>72879115
It does matter seethe more wronglet. If you use moorcocks chaos you simply wont get 40k.
Chaos in that universe has completely different meaning.

>>72879154
Nope, Look tard you can look up Moorcocks chaos it never had anything to with Warhammer.
Warhammer just borrowed the symbol and literal meaning.

>there are actually people that think chaos is good
The irony here is this is how chaos takes root.

I still can't believe this guy things the AdMech has a rational reason for fighting against scientific progress. That has never been the case in any edition. The point of the AdMech is that they have a staunch religious belief that certain technology is halal and certain technology is haram, partially motivated by a deep seated fear and cargo cult mentality instilled after the Age of Strife, and further believe that to innovate beyond or outside the ancient glory of the holy STC is heretical wickedness.

They don't believe in finding out new things, in fact they believe this is wrong and evil, with the exception of Hereteks and a few kooky maverick motherfuckers like (and you have no idea how hard I am sighing here) Cawl. To try to find things out for yourself is a vile offense to them. THIS is why the Imperium is technologically stagnant, not any rational reason.

>>72879169
>if you use moorcocks chaos you simply won't get 40K
Imagine being this completely, utterly incorrect.

There is absolutely no way to understand Chaos in 40K EXCEPT through Moorcock's idea of Chaos, because Moorcock came first and influenced 40K profoundly. They even named a minor Chaos god after him: Mo'rcck.

You are an autist sperg, and worse, you're completely wrong about the lore.

Go read the lore.

>>72878769
>edgy edgy edgy

>>72879207
Nobody has said Chaos is good. Why can't you argue without making shit up?

>>72879186
see
>>72879226
and cope.

You have no lore proof of anything you say. All your posts have just been sperging out and screaming.

Your argument is not supported by lore. It's all in your head.

Cope.

>there are actually people that think the Imperium is good

>>72879077
That is probably a factor, but I think at least some of it was an attempt to make the setting more broadly appealing. Their are still comic elements there. Those "Thought of the day" things on every damn Imperium communication are the funniest shit. It always makes me imagine getting an email from Karen in HR about Vicky's maternity leave party but it opens with "It is better to die for the emperor than live for yourself" as though its supposed to be comforting. I'm glad that kind of humour is still a feature of the setting.

>>72878009
>only thing that can beat the Inhibitors fucks up the setting even worse

>>72879222
Well you are retarded since the Admech has a literal vault for technology
They block ai because it can get possesed. So they have a lot of rational to their methods.

>>72879235

Ah, so it is.
Absolute retard.

>>72879268
The inhibitors would have killed everyone in their dementia anyway. Can't imagine the shadows being much worse than the greenfly though.

>>72879226
You are retarded,
Moorcock Chaos and GW Chaos are different you idiot. Itd be a legal case if it was exact.
Moorcocks chaos is completely diffferent. Reading it wont make you an expert on it in 40k fool.
Its like saying being an expert on harry potter makes you an expert on lotr.

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>>72879254
It really is the best stuff. Not a clue how you wouldn't smirk at least.

>>72879268
I thought it wasn't so much that they couldn't be beaten, it was that they were neccessary to maintain the health and longevity of the universe? Advanced civilizations consume tremendous amounts of energy, hastening the heat death of the universe. Hence why it was neccessary for them to be inhibited.

Then again, it has been a long time since I read the series, so I could be getting everything wrong.

>>72879278
>Well you are retarded since the Admech has a literal vault for technology
Yes. Where they worship and/or lock it away it and don't do anything else with it. AI is like the only thing that has a good reason to be suppressed, and even then not all AI, but they don't do it out of good reason, they do it out of religious dogma.

>>72878944

> Warhammer 40k (minimal viable product edition) is kinda like Warhammer 40k.

Real big brain over here.

>theres people that view every little aspect if 40k as comedy even the thoughts of the day
soiboys really do exist dont they?

>>72879320
No, advanced civilisations are herded like cats and fuck up your grand plans to preserve them from the Andromeda collision. It turns out that offing the local super predator allows less autisticslly restrained forces to fill the power vacuum.

>>72879278
>Well you are retarded since the Admech has a literal vault for technology
Indeed, and this only makes things worse. They take the amazing stuff that they could be studying and applying, and stick it in a hidden room where they jizz off to the idea of having it there. Because their religion tells them to do this.

>>72879306
>"It'd be a legal case if it was exact"
I never said it was an exact similarity, and it doesn't have to be for 40K Chaos to be understood in the same way as Moorcock Chaos.

Again, you have no support for your argument. You're a fat dribbling autist screaming because you resent how your headcanon is being shown up as dumb and wrong.

Cope.

>>72879336
They supress tons of things you keep ignoring. They vault super weapons and all sorts of things.

>>72879278
But anon, this is the faction that has an elaborate holy ritual for turning on machines. They aren't rational, but they are are supposed to cause a chuckle.

>>72879300
Shadows wanted to escape their shitty universe eaten by the Greenfly, didn't they? I can't imagine they would be nearly as bad of a threat to biodiversity as the Greenfly, they'd probably just consolidate all the matter they could around black holes and iron stars and just try to survive as long as they could into the heat death.
>>72879320
IIRC the Inhibitors were created by the winners of the Dawn War, the first galactic war back when the universe was still fairly young. Their primary purpose was to prevent damage from the Andromeda galactic collision (which shouldn't be very damaging, this was always the least realistic aspect to me and a gaping plothole). I suppose they might have had a secondary notion of preventing the rise of galactic empires so the Dawn War couldn't happen again, but we don't really know what their objectives were beyond the Andromeda thing.

>>72879350
>40K Thoughts For The Day
>not comedy
1/10 because you got me to reply and give you a (You), absolute garbage bait otherwise.

>>72879358
As said before they dont want that technology getting into the wrong hands.
>their religion
All this shit started because if the HH.

>>72879350
anons
>the setting is getting more serious, but I am glad there are still comic elements to it

you
>wow why do they think every element of the setting is comedy?

No wonder we are having this thread, some people just straight up can't read.

>>72879370
Not because it's a good idea, just because it's policy. It's a reflexive knee-jerk tendency for the Mechanicus to sequester knowledge, not because it's practical or they gave any conscious thought to it.

>>72879370
Yes. And this is bad. Do you not understand this? Instead of just vaulting this stuff they could be learning stuff from it. And this is all a moot point because the AdMech restricts ALL tech, not just weapons. Medical tech, travel tech, terraforming, tech, everything. Almost anything that could make the setting better or make the Imperium run more smoothly is basically impossible to access because the AdMech refuse to investigate it properly out of religious observance.

>>72879363
Go actually read about moorcocks chaos. Stop jist talking about it.
Its more like American mcgees alice chaos that warhammer.
Chaos in that setting doesnt mean "bad" but in 40k it means bad, really bad.

>>72879401
>As said before they dont want that technology getting into the wrong hands.
That has never, ever been the reason given. You are making this shit up entirely.

Thread archived for posterity

/pol/tards get rekt

>>72879306
>Itd be a legal case if it was exact

It easily could have been, except Moorcock didnt care that much, and since it's not the same product types it would have been hard to argue for anything but the punitive damages.

>>72879374
But do you no get it? holy rituals teach people good maintenance without even noticing it.
When you revere your car it breaks down less.