Slap yourself for perpetuating this bad idea.

>>65057714
off yourself stick in the mud boomer

>>65057692
Exalted Abyssals and Deathlords

>>65057692
Dwarf fortress necromancers - Someone who was random dude, read wrong book now is a lich.
Or druid necromaner who's soul is in a big ass badass tree and druid him/herself is a half wood mage from ages ago

He's trying to revive extinct species while working relatively within the bounds of ethical research, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

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>>65057714
Why non-evil powerful undead sorcerers are bad? It's not oike the worod even works on D&D rules anyway.

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>>65057692
Lich who decided to become one so he could party forever

>>65057692
He was once the scourge of the land, a tyrant of blood and death. At the end of his reign of terror he achieved the ultimate immortality through Lichdom. 1000 years have since passed and his empire has long crumbled from neglect. Now he resides in his most remote castle, content to enjoy himself for once and lead a relaxing retirement. He researches niche magics and tours the planes, secure in the knowledge that finally nothing in this world can pose a true threat to him.

>>65057692
Trying to redeem himself from all the sins he did to become a Lich.
>>65057714
Based

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>>65057811
>It's not oike the worod even works on D&D rules anyway.
SO HOW YOUR LICH WORKS?

>>65057692
>Halfling (or whatever) goes to wizard school
>Is a good student, does well, never really leaves the school
>Is generally timid, and dedicates his life to studying
>Gets transferred to another wizarding school for research purposes
>Is given free roam of the lab and reagent stores
>By sheer accident and bad luck (or by accidental/deliberate mix-up of recipes) while churning out novel potions, he creates a potion of lichdom
>By further poor luck, he drinks said potion


Alternatively, character is forced to drink the potion made by another.

>>65057692
>Neutral/Non Evil Lichs

There is no such thing, just like there are no non-Good Paladins. Games eventually decided to bend over for players who refuse to play classes/concepts as envisioned.

>>65058013
This is not d&d

Not everything works like d&d

Only good lich is a dead lich.
It may not be today, or tomorrow, but you have to get new souls in your phylactery to feed it at some point.
Slowly, no matter how much you try to prevent it, your long years will drive you to insanity, your body eroding with it, leaving not but a deranged soul eating husk of a demilich one day.
A lich's very existence is evil. Only way around it is to die and not come back.

>>65057720
Call me WHITE MONSTER, boy

>>65058047
>but you have to get new souls in your phylactery to feed it at some point
what the fuck are you talking about

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>>65058203
read before you speak, you cunk

>>65058268
what edition is this? I've never read that and gone under the assumption that they're essentially immortal with no need for sustenance

>>65058342
5e

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>>65057692
Well becoming a lich involves going entirely against the law and inherent goodness of 99.9% of societies out there, thus making it almost universally evil. So your only option without ass-pulling, is to make the Lich either become that way unwillingly or to be amoral to the point of psychosis, entirely unaware of what good and evil and how his actions fall into those two distinctions.

So do you want Ice King from Adventure Time or Lenny from Of Mice and Men? Because those the two archetypes for non-evil liches. Notice they're also both retarded.

>>65058268
But nobody is talking about d&d

>>65058268
so, sacrifice only evildoers and monsters/animals
its a bit morally iffy but theres a limitless supply of assholes and it should work with neutral alignment

>>65057692
He is the warden of life and death.

The lich sits at the heart and outside the cycle of life and death, ensuring its balance over the course eternity.

>>65058412
actually now that i think about it, chaotic "good" radical lich with a political opinion matching the parties
they perceive any sacrifice (by their political enemies) to be worth it for the greater good

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I made a 3-session campaign where a powerful wizard, through succession of the throne, became king of a city.

He decided to turn to lichdom, and invoked a ritual to turn the entire royal city into a phylactery.
On the surface, the city was largely undisturbed and for many years no one knew any different.
He found out very quickly that the best way to keep his phylactery full was through creating a prosperous city.
He found that people liked representation and democracy, so he created simulcrums of himself with different appearances to run faux elections.
While the candidates were all simulcrums, each candidate served a different party with different ideals. The votes themselves were real.
This gave the lich a good understanding of what his citizens wanted, while still possessing the autonomy to make long lasting changes in government.
Over time he became so engrossed with creating the greatest city, and gaining more power as a result, that he lost any ambition that wasn't directed at making his citizens happy or increasing trade.

The party were all disciples of kelemvor sent in to clear out a lich. However, they found that people has, over time, began to embrace necromancy. It was seen as an honorable thing to do: you could turn yourself to a sentient zombie, work in the fields, and essentially provide a passive income for your future generations. The wealthiest families were often the oldest. Death was no longer seen as a sad inconvenience, but a major milestone in existence.
This embrace of necromancy also provided another interesting cultural benefit - imagine that the greatest artists, inventors, engineers, and architects never have to die. They can continue to create for as long as they wish. The city became a booming cultural hub where students from around the globe could study directly under the greatest minds.

Really the only problem with the city was inflation and overpopulation, Otherwise everyone, including the lich, was pretty damn happy.

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>>65058402
In this case, a moraly ambiguous sorcerer got his hands on a cursed thome - got his soul sucked into it, while his body died.

After some time he learned to project his mind in any nearby undead body, and his conection with the host is stronger when he is closer to it. Eventualy he became the head of the magical library of an empire.

The empire is now in ruins, and the massive city is being ruled by merciless servants of the old empire. I might go with the lich distancing himself from humanity and becoming colder with time, but didnt wanted him to be actively malicious towards the world - mostly indiferent to what his "allies" do.

>>65057811
source of image?

>>65057692
You might have to go with him being evil, but that doesn't mean every action he takes must be evil in its method or outcome. Maybe the Lich does many many good things, but still has to do a few evil things (like consume souls) every now and then, so he'd still be considered evil for that.

>>65058865
This. Something I don't understand about people whenever they talk about alignments is that you're not forced to adhere to your alignment exactly. People aren't like that. An Evil Lich doesn't have to do some kind of evil world ending plan, maybe he just wants more time to research magic and doesn't do anything really evil except an occasional excursion to get materials and souls if it's the type of lich that needs to fuel himself.

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>>65057692
They're a necrophile building their harem.

>>65058855
steven lichman

>>65059121
These comics are amazing

D&D has a longstanding legacy of this. In AD&D, liches could be any alignment outside of ravenloft, where they could only be evil. In 3.5, the baelnorns can be any alignment, and Libris Mortis has a good lich variant. Check out Monsters of Faerun for several variant powers.

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One idea I used for a one-shot is that of a Lich being a man whose betrothal was broken off forcefully by a heroic type so he could seize the marriage. He divined to see what would be the best way to achieve his marriage and realised he couldn't win against the hero and so predicted when his love would reincarnate and turned into a lich so he could plan to ensure that she will be his again.

You can just make the method of ataining lichdom prohibitive but not evil in your setting. Not everything has to follow dnd rules

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>>65057692
I was always partial to the Loving Lich from Maze of the Blue Medusa, so here's a take on an LE-to-N that concept.

>A long time ago, there was a wizard who ascended to lichdom in the traditional way. Lots of sacrifices, horrible, unholy acts, and just general evil all around. For nearly a century, he ruled his corner of the world as a dark despot, a maniacal conqueror fueled by dark magic and darker deeds.
>And then he fell in love.
>Love does strange things to a lich's magic. A being of almost unbridled negative energy, lich's normally have an aura of undeath that permeates them and their environment. When a lich falls in love, true love, the kind of thing that fairy tale romances are made after, that aura inverts, and the lich becomes a beacon of positive energy. Plants grow uncontrollably. Wounds heal in minutes. Animals grow to massive size.
>His love was a druid, and explorer, and a good woman. She lived at the edge of his territories, in a small cabin at the edge of the woods, where she lived off the land and kept a weather eye on the actions of his armies to aid the good kingdoms nearby. Frankly, the lich had no idea how to interact with her.
>Eventually, he finally came to try and romance her, he descended to her home at the edge of the woods in disguise. At least to open conversation, before revealing his true nature.
>But when he arrived, the door was flung wide and his love missing. She had been taken by a Prince of the Wild Hunt, as the fey are wont to do with mortals that interest them. She had vanished, before he could even speak to her, spirited away into the Fey.
>So he swore to get her back.
>The depredations of his evil empire slowed, then ceased. His undead servants vanished from the land. His empire crumbled.. The surrounding kingdoms have become nervous, over the past few decades, unsure as to what has occurred, and hiring people to brave the tangled overgrowth.
>And deep within his former capital, the lich plans for war, and rescue.

>>65058268
5e isn't real and you know it.

>>65057692
she's just a lich girl
and she's gone too far
and you know it don't matter anyway

>>65062082
You can rely on your undead army, you can rely on your undead army

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>>65062093
lel

>>65057692
He's a sad being filled with regret because becoming a lich didn't make him happy and didn't change his life for the better at all because now everyone wants to kill him. He thought becoming a lich would make him a better person and let him truly be himself, until he found out that the kind of person that does lich stuff is a titanic asshole. Gets to live forever, but in a cold, uncomfortable bony body, gets to have all this magic power, but it's only useful for hurting people and he gets lonely. Like I said, filled to the brim with sadness and regret.

The other way you could spin it is that he's bitter about being upstaged by a Death Knight who he's been serving for centuries, and said Death Knight is a total ass, so he wants to betray the guy and be good and worship the god that the Death Knight guy used to follow before he fell out of spite. Worshiping a good guy god and helping heroes defeat a Death Knight just so happen to make you a good guy in DnD, who would've thunk?

>>65057692
A bunch of Necromancers and Liches who are avid historians and war re-enactment enthusiasts. They go around to historical sites and use their powers to see just what really happened and discus the importance or implications of their finds. They also make bets on what they think will happen.

>>65058402
How about just plain going kinda senile and forgetting about being evil. Moral realignment due to memory loss, then you get some built in growth in coming to terms with what you did

>That makes 3 genocides committed in my name, this is getting a little depressing.

>>65057692
An apprentice who cocked up the ritual circle and accidentally made his master the sacrifice.

>>65061745
A druid Lich could work. Rot and decay are a part of the natural cycle.

>>65057692
Just make turning into a Lich involve a lot of human sacrifice but the Lich did so to fight an evil that would take centuries of planning to defeat. An "ends justify the means" sorta deal.

>>65058362
Add that to the list of reasons why 5e is shit.

>>65057692
Maybe as some sort of a temple guardian of sorts?

https://youtu.be/A0TalLrtZ24

>>65063843
I like this and it's going to be a minor nuisance for the party in my next campaign

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>>65057692
Expand your definition of Lich to include more unique fluff. Look up Sokushinbutsu. It's Buddhist monks that got so hardcore in their goal to reach Zen that they muffified themselves while still living, and any successfully completed ones were ascended to Buddha status.

>>65057692
The lich got tired of being evil. You can only have so many vengful wouldbe heros try and kill you before you dicide trying to enslave the world isn't worth it. He has just retired to practice his hobbies instead. Maybe he has a farm or is trying to learn an instrument.

Even in D&D, there are non-evil liches. There's a LN lich in a t4 module for 5e, as well as elven baelnorns.

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You want liches? I got liches.

Long ago, a wizard looking to become a lich had to take everything from a man to do so. They chose some farmer in a small town and basically gave him the Job special. The farmer lived on, never knowing why such tragedy struck him. The lich, observing the farmer and his new family, eventually developed a bottomless guilt. They now dedicate themselves to helping all of the farmer's lineage from afar.

Someone held a deep interest in the natural world and underwent lichdom to ensure they could maintain a reserve/magic biodome that is as untouched by society as possible. By all outward appearances, their lair looks like any other long overgrown ruin. Depending how long it's been going, those who somehow manage to break into this place might find themselves getting attacked by dinosaurs.

A wizard that's a master of, if not even created, a school of magic that specializes in combining living things together. Their magnum opus was to find a phoenix and combine themselves with it. It didn't entirely work as planned and they're now a flying, eternally flaming skeleton mutant. It is required that the chimermancer's apprentices have nerves of steel.

A powerful oracle learns that they actually CAN avoid the death they foresaw. The choices where they lived to see the next day dwindled as the oracle got older, but they always did the correct thing . Avoidances became habits became lifestyles became... Instructions. One day the visions of dying stopped, and when they broke from their prophetic tunnel vision, there was no flesh left.

The cherished hero of the people, known and loved by all, savior of the realm, vanquisher of the dark sorcerer, and guardian of the land, dies. Some say it was all the potions, or all the magical items, or the people's love, or a gift from the gods, or even a parting secret they learned from the dark sorcerer. No matter how, the hero didn't stay dead, and is guarding to this day.

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>>65064541
i swear to god daisoujou if you use startle one more goddamn time

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>>65057692

How about a lich that became one on accident?

*RECORD SCRATCH*

*FREEZE FRAME*

Yup, that's me.You're probably wondering how I ended up in this situation.

*VHS tape rewinds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l482T0yNkeo Starts playing.*

It all started last Tuesday when I met a cute girl at the dance named Suzie. Everything started off great at first, until I brought her back to the tavern for some fruit juice and twister. That's when I realized -- she was a succubus! Boy, was I a *succ*er!

Fast forward 2 hours, and she's tryin'a suck my soul. I was honestly a little buzzed, so I was all for it, but then this JAG sweels in and steals my girl! I was just about ready to take him outside and teach him a lesson, but this dame, she's kinda the one who DOES the stealing, know what I'm saying?

That's when she gets this wicked look on her face. She turns to me and she says she's got a six pack of mead in it for me if I help her out on a little 'favor'. Now, at this point I thought something was up, but hey, I'm not old enough to buy mead. Next thing I know, she and I are out on the town, and everywhere we go some JAG starts musclin' in on my gal! I didn't even realize I was succu-bait until my skin started getting all clammy. I thought it was just acne at first, but then I start gettin' all weak and nerdy!

After all that, this dame presents me with my 6-pack. Now, it's swirling green and smellin' like death, but I'd never had no mead before. I go bottoms up, and suddenly I'm a 30 foot tall bag o' bones! How am I supposed to play at the big game this Saturday lookin' like this?

>>65057692
Steve Lichman is best boy.

>>65057692
Destroying souls is an inherently Evil act on the cosmic alignment scale. Non-evil liches traditionally willingly became demiliches instead, due to their refusal to feed their phylacteries.

>>65065260
Liches don't need to feed on anything. They aren't cucked like vampires. Stop acting like 5e lore is in any way legitimate.

The Lich is an artist and just wanted more time to work on their craft.

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>>65057692
Uhhh lets think
You can go the Settra route
>Sustaining immortality because you're the best option to lead a Nation, forever.
Possibly Voodoo related warden
>Sustaining lichdom so someone's still around to fight da bad speereets.
Or some sort of nationalist necromancer
>So obsessed with defending your home from barbarian invaders you leant to turn their own dead against them, and now achieving lichdom you protect your people from invaders casually, whilst still hanging out with your descendants for Christmas and summer festivals knowing that they live because you sacrificed your humanity.

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>>65057692
Meet Seragrim, a TSR-approved, canonical Lawful Good lich.

>>65058479
I am stealing this for a campaign I'm probably never gonna run

>>65065989
Nice guy

>>65057714
Based. Non-evil liches are cancer, any anyone who has them in their games should be fucking offed for not understanding the basics of storytelling.

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>>65057692
>Not being a lich but also finding God

>>65065989
Sounds like a neat character. He looks more like ordinary, inanimate skeletal remains than a lich, though. His portrait could use some pizzazz. I just can't detect any unlife from him.

>>65065286
Get with the times, grognard. Your old editions have run their course.

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>>65057692

Best lich in centuries

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Take a high level cleric with a religious stricture against suicide, kill him and turn him into a zombie. Instant good-aligned lich

>>65066413
Thats a noble use of corpse explosion.

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To protect your children and grand children. is that not good?

>>65057692
Obsessed with researching some obscure topic. As his longevity neared its end, he felt that he was so close to a breakthrough that he just HAD to attain immortality.

>>65057692
What if they're simply too great to ever truly "die"? Like even if their body just gives out and their vitals stop working, they just keep on being active?

Sort of a lich I guess. Too great for death to stop, or slow them down.

There's no reason why a life-challenged person can't be good. It's not a big idea, stop being a necrist.

Of course, since social and technological progress advances one funeral at a time, after a few centuries such a person would find it hard to fit in with a society.

>>65057837
Party God lich confirmed as best non evil lich
10/10 would run.

>>65067484
ancestor worship.
have a lich as a meddling great grand mother.

>>65058048
Greetings and salutations, WHITE MONSTER. What news do you bring from the realm of supremacy?

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>>65057692
A favorite character of mine is a changeling lich who just wants to do experiments and deals with more comic level threats for the setting, she has an army of revenants under her control that operate in every major capital city, as well has a relationship with every king/ruler, and usually has a "shop" set up for smaller issues the mage army deals with for some additional income.

I had it set up in 4e mostly to keep our party from dying and get a fortress built into a mountain with a teleportation circle, as by the rules in 4e animate dead had no time limit.

The player version I had didn't have the shops or relationships with kings, that's just what I'd write in whenever i DM.

>>65068502
>tfw she comes to you on your 18th birthday with a magical item made especially for you

Thanks Great-Great-Great Grandmama

>>65068947
wait till she start complaing about Great- Great-Great-Great Grandchildren.

>>65066263
>stop liking what I don't like!

well, making a NPC for a friend of mine to play
used to be a girl mage who had a cat, she loves cats in a whole new level, so much that when she died in a accident, her soul fused with her cat, now she is a lich that helps unwanted kittens, when then die, she zombify then
Just a lich girl with a army of kittens and zombie cats

>>65057692
I read a 2e Dnd module that had a LG lich that was a local wizard king liched himself b/c he did not trust anyone else to run the kingdom.

>>65058268
>He doesn't sacrifice prisoners accused of terrible crimes.

Plebian tastes anon. Sure, they don't taste as "yummy" and are not as sustaining as the souls of innocent children and holy virgins, but prisoners are the discerning lich's sustenance.

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>>65066382
>DUANE!

>>65066263
>not understanding the basics of storytelling.

Much like you it seems.

>>65057811

Being a lich is like playing a computer rpg on god mode with cheats. No danger, no consequences, no joy, and eventually, despite whatever your intentions were in the beginning, you start breaking shit and killing people just to see what happens. Piss off too many people? Just wait inside your castle for a few generations and start fresh. You have all the ages to fuck around. All that really matters is maintaining your immortality, so outside of fucking around you also develop plans within plans to eliminate anyone who could take it away. Eventually you are a legend, an insane, capricious, untrustworthy, being who treats everyone like objects, doesn't bother to learn names, and kills at will for reasons nobody can understand.

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>Guys necromancy technically isn't evil because reasons and if messing with the bodies of the dead isn't frowned upon in the society they're from it's not evil!
>Becoming the embodiment of evil undeath also isn't evil because they might actually be cool guys, really!

>>65069029
Having children is the meaning of life, anon.

>>65058047
>the only lich is a dead lich
Ftfy

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>>65057692
Make him rather ummoral than outright evil.

Why use a lich at that point. Why not an amoral archmage with a clone somewhere else.

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>>65057692
I like something like the demilich concept better. The wizard is off noclipping/astral projecting through the forbidden inner workings of the universe while their body sits somewhere looking like pic related. What they're doing is wrong and unnatural in the manner of the bilblical fall, rather than in any utilitarian sense. They're not hurting anybody directly, but they're breaking taboos intrinsic to the fabric of the universe or their nature as people.

>>65058479
>autistic Lich plays irl Sim City
I like this a lot, really cool setting

>>65058479
Sounds fun, but absolutely detest the 'clever' nonstandard phylactery idea. Shit like making the city a phylactery, or a well, or a grain of sand in the desert.

A phylactery is supposed to be a small container. A vase, or a jewelry box. Maybe an amulet or an hourglass. Something that can contain a soul.

>>65070646
Have you tried not playing with d&d rules? Besides the thread asks for neutral lichs too.

>>65070646
I understand you're retarded, but using the bodies of soldiers that would otherwise be wasted is just good for the environment.

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>>65057692

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>>65071505
oops, wrong pic

>>65057692
Helping spirits stuck on this shitty globe to enlightenment

>>65058402
>Well becoming a lich involves going entirely against the law and inherent goodness of 99.9% of societies out there, thus making it almost universally evil.
Eh? A lich is just an intelligent undead spellcaster. He need not have done /anything/ particularly special to acquire that status.

>>65059121
The comic is ok, but half the time I can’t tell if it’s telling a joke or being preachy

>>65058013
>Games eventually decided to bend over for players who refuse to play classes/concepts as envisioned
You mean games let people have more freedom and don't confine players to arbitrary standards that get boring and cliche quickly

>>65057837
>take a path of immortality that doesn't let you drink, use drugs, or have sex
welp this was a bad decision

>>65074227
Are you daft? A lich can just research or create spells that let skeletons drink, use drugs, and have sex at worst. True Polymorph already takes care of that if they're a D&D lich.

>>65075032
Can true polimorph give living qualities to undead?

>>65075978
Yes? It's not False Polymorph.

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Ywn rest your head on pillowy lich titties

>>65075032

> The target's game Statistics, including mental Ability Scores, are replaced by the Statistics of the new form.

Oh yeah, that sounds real fun to end up a '10s all around' human' when you want to actually talk to people.

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>>65078470
This series makes no effort to pass her off as a lich.

>>65078604
True polymorph.

>>65057692
Guy accidentally gets liched—he's about to be sacrificed so some Dark Lord wannabe can achieve apotheosis and undeath but the dumb fuck gets the spell wrong, zaps himself and turns his sacrificial victim into the lich.

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>>65057692
Do a rockofeller lich that fuck everyone legaly and own like 60% of the world so peasent have better living but every merchan or other are completly failling like if you want to win a war you gona need to offer the lich more then the odder side so no matter who win the lich win and he dont care about anything odder then power whatever he team up with lawfull good or caotic evil, he just want cashh and he gona make sure you pay your due or he send a shit ton of people to screw you over

Make a dragon character like that once and it was great

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>>65057692
From my setting:
A Master Thief with a penchant for magic items who got caught up in fighting an evil sorcerer for the fate of the world. When all the righteous heroes had fought the sorcerer head-on and died, he secretly sabotaged the ritual the sorcerer was cooking up to turn himself into a lich, scuffing a few lines and redirecting the target to himself. In the end the thief stole the most important treasure the villain had- immortality.
After that he went on a centuries-long spree of perfecting his art and stealing things in increasingly baffling circumstances, earning the title of "the Bedlam King", before becoming bored and retiring from the world, quickly fading into myth among the innermost circles of thieves.
These days few things pique his interest. While his hoard is massive, the thrill of owning treasure has faded, and now he rarely even takes trophies from his forays into secure vaults and ancient dungeons. Occasionally he will don the garb of a common thief and join a gang on their latest scheme, or wreathe himself in the illusion of an easy mark, playing along to a con for as long as pleases him before turning the tables on the would-be hustler.
If you would bargain with him, you must above all arouse his curiosity. A riddle he has not heard or a showman's trick well-executed will fare far better than offers of riches or an appeal to the common good.
He will, however, take notice if the world itself is threatened. Many an apocalyptic villain has met their end by his hand- not by some epic confrontation or even a knife to the back, but by some vital component of their plan that goes inexplicably missing at the most crucial stage.

Its kind of faggy that some people believe that you can only play lichs as some nerds envisioned 50 years ago.

Accidental lich?

>>65064952
thats pretty good desu

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I'm going to be running a campaign which is set around a group of company of heros (15-20) who are brought in by the 7 kingdoms to solve the lich problem.
Its a huge problem.
Up until now there were an unknown number of liches operating in the world and whenever one starts riling up the place and causing too much trouble a group is hired to kill him, so the remaining liches have banded together to form a lich coven for saftey. They have made it that another lich in the coven will be the phylactery for a different lich, i.e Lich(1) will be the phylactery for Lich(2) and so on.
This means that if one Lich were to die they would have to track down and kill the other Lich before the first comes back to life and you'll be dealing with 2 liches at once.
Its themed as a boss-rush campaign where they'll have to methodically work their way through 7-9 liches to reach the last Lich and save the kingdom of suffer the wrath of all 9 pissed off liches.
The reason I'm using a company of heros (15-20) is so that players can use more than 1 player character if they desire, and when they disembark from the hub they'll choose which character they're using.
My liches will have MAXIMUM style points and each boss fight will be designed for MAXIMUM fun while also rewarding creative thinking among players.
I'm also thinking of having an underlying message that should cement itself by the end similar to the game FURI where the various bosses aren't there to stop the player, but to influence the players emotions and bring them toward the opposing side. I could have it that the first few liches the players fight are objectively evil assholes and as it goes on their motives seem purer and more agreeable. Maybe the liches didn't form the coven out of safety, but to ensure the creation and development of a group of heros that can defeat a bigger evil, known only to the liches.
It'll be in development hell for a full year though.

>>65081852
>Lich(1) will be the phylactery for Lich(2) and so on.

That seems dumb. Take out lich 1 and lich 2 is permadead. In fact with some research or surveillance or magic assisted luck you could possibly chain reaction the whole coven by killing one.

>>65082416
I've changed phylactery mechanics.
>kill a phyactery, now the lich associated cannot respawn
>liches have a fairly long respawn timer
>can't create another phylactery for a while after first is destroyed

>>65057811
>oike the worod
nice lich name desu

>>65081852
>My liches will have MAXIMUM style points
You have my attention.

>>65071025
yes, but it might be preferable to do those things on your own.
instead of having a centuries old death sorceress arranging your love life.

>>65057692
People change, OP, and 200+ years is a long fucking time to change
Maybe evil just got boring. Maybe they got a new perspective on ethics and morality from exploring the astral plane via projection for the past 80 years. Maybe they accomplished whatever goal that drove them to lichdom years ago and they want to just chill for a while.

>>65057837
I feel like you'd be better off just working for an afterlife where everyone parties forever. You keep your senses and make sure you're in like-minded company.

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Pirate-cashoo's OC lich Vroscaz is just an old duffer who wants to party and be fabulous

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>>65083175

Still has a temper tho

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>>65083192

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>>65083201
Would you?

>>65058013
>just like there are no non-Good Paladins.
There are explicitly non-good paladins. Oath of Vengeance says that many of its followers are Lawful Neutral.
>Games eventually decided to bend over for players who refuse to play classes/concepts as envisioned.
Yes, it's called evolving with your player base, you fucking grognard. Just because you remember when the rules had things one way doesn't mean that's the "real" way it is.

>>65062021
None of this is real, anon. Liches don't exist.

>>65057692
A former warden druid who performed a blood rite or some shit with the pine woods he guards in order to protect it for eternity because the druid was the last and didn't have any offspring or successor.

>>65083235
I'm right here.

>>65065966
>Sustaining immortality because you're the best option to lead a Nation, forever.
That's LE as fuck. And if that was really necessary an LG god could grant you immortality.

>Sustaining lichdom so someone's still around to fight da bad speereets.
Same as above.

>nationalist necromancer
That's straight up CE.

>>65079026
Greed is Evil.

>>65083259
Well now I'm spooked.

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>>65083208

>>65083261
communist necromancer

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>>65071505
>>65071586

I always liked the idea of a council of liches ruling over a city of the undead, with the zombies so well-perserved that you might just confuse them for regular people.

>>65057811
I think Eberron has good liches that rule over the elves?

>>65058402
> In Faerun, people who reject the gods become part of an horrible soul eating wall surrounding the city of the God of Death.
> A civilization forms that rejects gods AND thus the afterlife.
> Rather than see their souls used by the gods, they undergo a ritual.
> With the ritual, upon death the persons soul is absorbed into a soul beacon
> Their souls is then used to power the liches that run the civilization.
> The skeletons of the bodies of the dead are reinforced via alchemy, and then employed as manual laborers.
> The civilization has grown incredibly prosperous, but has to deal with constant crusades.
> Their immense arcane might and accumulated knowledge, has help the civilization fend off crusades.
> However, they can't set off and conquer.
> If they did, it would no doubt invoke an holy war of such proportions that they would be wiped from the earth.

>>65058479
Inflation doesn't happen unless demand increases faster than ability of an economy to meet that demand. If anything, having so many undead laborers would cause deflation and make property investment impossible because it'd devalue instead of increase in value.

>>65065966
>There is a lichocracy
> People vote with their souls upon death
> Whomever gets the most votes, get all the souls.

>>65057692
Quit boxing yourself in and realize that evil is a perfectly valid path. Being evil doesn't mean you have to be a bloodthirsty asshole.

So, you sacrificed a bunch of babies or whatever and now you're a lich. This makes you evil. Well, you can still be a nice guy. You just didn't let your conscience get in the way of your pursuit of power and longevity. Now that that's out of the way, get out there and make some friends.

>>65083846
You missed the point, but thanks for the contribution.

>>65075978
>>65075032

No. Liches are immune to polymorph, and as undead they are immune to mind effects.

Look it up.

They can't change their body to allow them the same sensations as organics, and they can't even use magic to fake it.

No drink, drugs, or sex for them. Not any kind they will enjoy, at least.

>>65078604

Dragon Quest liches are not the same as DnD liches. In JRPGs, lich just means 'the most powerful kind of undead spellcaster', not 'bag of bones with a phylactery' in specific.

Wiz was never a skeleton. She is just dead and extremely powerful.

>>65057692
You can always go for a dry Lich aka "the mummy lich".
They are basically a walking desert they are not evil they are just like the biome otself rather uncaring for most stuff that happens.
All you need is a walker in the wastes at lvl 10 for the transformation they just need to undergo a ritual that is overseen by another dry lich that involves removing 5 vital organs and putting them in canoptic jars which work as the dry liches phylacteries there is even a template for them.
tl;dr: Become the sand guardian, guardian of the sand and tell Poseidon to fuck off.

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>>65058268
>liches are vampires now
>implies that demilichdom is anything but an upgrade

Why is 5e trying to be so shit

>>65082985
Imagine the elite four. Except there is 7-9 of them and they all have about 2-4 sessions buildup with their own leitmotif and personality and fighting style and theme and difficulty and boss arena.
I've already got one idea for it.
>party tracks a lich down to an abandoned theater
>its overcast and thunder is on the horizon
>they enter the theater to find him on the stage reciting poetry to a major illusioned audience
>he spots them and the illusions fade away
>"ahhh....Come to auditon? I've got a spot opening up for lead actor, I suspect he's growing weary of his role. But before we begin, would you mind stepping outside? It would be a damn shame to miss a fight in a thunderstorm."
>actor lich themed fight ensues
>If they refuse the offer he'll blast holes in the roof and call down lightning strikes from the clouds while I play some Bach, Ravel or Dvorak in the background
Every boss should be distinct and enjoyable for the players.

>>65083208
Come on anon, don't leave us hanging

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What about this fella?

>>65057692
>Non evil liches.
>Non evil undead of any kind.
Undead creatures are, by necessity, evil.

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>>65057692
>wizard falls in love with cute vampire
>they go back and forth for a while but the relationship ends badly
>wizard tries to get vampire back
>becomes lich and presents his phylactery (a ring or whatever) as a sign of undying devotion
>things go well for awhile
>bitter breakup
>lich and vampire spend the next few centuries making each other miserable
>lich throws in the towel, and just wants it all to end
>hires PCs to get his phylactery back, so he can fucking die already
Could go a few ways.

>>65088395
Why?

You can't be a non-evil lich

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>>65057692
>Kingdom is struck by a massive plague
>Plague was unleashed by a lich, who will soon invade, using the plaguedead to overwhelm them
>King is approached by a Master Necromancer, who offers to train new necromancers to use their dead against the evil lich
>Massive skellywar
>Evil lich loses and is destroyed
>Master Necromancer uses a big ritual to take control of all the undead in the kingdom and usurp the throne
>Or that was the plan. Little necromancers are better than he thought, and maintain control of some of them.
>Second massive skellywar. Many necromancers become liches and other intelligent undead.
>Kingdom's necromancer's win.
>Everyone just want to go back to how things were before.
>The liches use their undead carve out a massive underground necropolis. Housing all the dead and undead, intelligent or otherwise.
>There they rest, guarding the secrets of necromancy, in case they are ever needed again.

>>65089763
Sure you can. Liches don't exist, so in a pen and paper setting they can literally be anything you want.

>>65057692
Here's my thoughts OP. Why do you need a non-evil lich? What purpose does this character serve in the overall narrative? Considering the board, I look at it from a GM perspective. So this Lich is some sort of NPC. If he's a "non-evil" lich then that implies that he's not the, or an, antagonist. In which case, is his lichdom just for flavor? Or does his undead nature actually serve a purpose? What do you want this non-evil lich to do?

>>65057692
Those who become a lick for a reason beyond death and destruction. Like I made a Lick who became one so he could "live" long enough to find his missing love (who he couldn't actually remember due to her being in a magical vault that removed her from history so no one should have remembered her but he knew that what he loved so much was inside the Vault). I think he would have fallen in the Non-Evil range.

>>65057837
Does anyone remember The Pink Skull?

>>65057692
I have one that's a part of my own setting, which, while totally different from any setting that has a lich, is similar enough

The fucker was one of the two most powerful-souled humans in existence. Fought on the losing side of a war, imprisoned and tortured by their leader- who was the only one more powerful.

Now, in the setting, this power means very little for anyone except for the most powerful, as magic is weak without a focusing agent, and this was before such things existed. The imprisoned warrior had no idea of his powers. However, one day, he found within himself the strength to rip one of his hands out of the shackle- the wrist was broken and the flesh was weakened and easily torn. He retrieved his arms, and killed the other- causing a great event as near limitless amount of soul tainted the area. He himself was strong enough to survive, and is the only occurence where soul naturally binds to matter, and was spread through the fourth dimension by the reality-shattering explosion. His soul is unreachable, and his body is bound to it. He returns shortly after every death. He requires sustenance, however, which only occurs when war or bloodshed happen. He fights for whatever side is, in his mind, just, keeping his presence a secret. But he never fights for peace

>>65089531
If they weren't evil, they wouldn't be undead.

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>>65057692
>Lich of knowlege
A heroic knight became a lich to protect the royal archives. Sworn a oath to protect all knowlege and make sure that it never comes in the wrong hands. Is also "living" index of all the infomation there.

He works with the living archevists as a mentor/ teacher. Is always happy to recive new books and trinkets.

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>>65057692
Lord Cherwell was born Frederick A. Lindemann in 1886 in Baden-Baden, a German spa

When World War I broke out in July 1914, Lindemann was competing at the European tennis championship. He returned to England and joined the Royal Aircraft Factory at Farnborough Airfield. There he came up with a solution to a vexing aviation problem: At the time, no technique had been developed to get an aircraft out of a spin

He then learned to fly, and by repeatedly putting an aircraft into a downward spiral while simultaneously memorizing measurements such as airspeed, he developed his ideas and demonstrated that they worked.

The Prof, as he came to be called, once thrilled Churchill’s family by explaining quantum physics in five minutes flat. The politician declared that the Prof had a beautiful brain, and was soon seeking his advice on matters such as poison gas and anthrax.

Lindemann regarded the working class as abysmally “stupid,” advocated “harshness” toward homosexuals, experienced a “physical revulsion which he was unable to control” in the presence of blacks

In April 1942, he sent the prime minister his most controversial memo. He postulated that if even half the loads of 10,000 bombers could be dropped on densely populated working-class neighborhoods in Germany’s larger cities, a third of the enemy population would be rendered homeless. “Investigation seems to show that having one’s house demolished is most damaging to morale,”

The so-called area bombing strategy proved costly because it absorbed as much as a quarter of British war production. It killed more than 600,000 German civilians, and as many as 57,000 British and Commonwealth airmen died in the effort. Although the policy’s chief rationale was that the loss of morale would reduce productivity, German armaments output continued to increase.

>>65090150
Depends on the setting.

>>65086056
They're immune to having polymorph cast on them unwillingly, but are able to cast it on themselves.

>>65087553
I love it.

>>65086454
The problem is "demilich" literally means lesser lich, so the confusion is understandable. Blame the retard who named them that.

>>65057692
Can’t be done. Burning 666 babies alive is a critical part of the ritual to become a lich.

>>65090297
But that guy is clearly evil?

>>65058268
Offer protection of a large town and in turn you get a criminal, who was sentenced to death anyway, every now and then.
Boom, you can be evil if this is the official form of capital punishment in that region.

>>65071160
Isn't this guy still alive or something

>>65091422
What if Bob here was just Zar-Mondul's janitor and got cursed to lichdom because he picked a bad moment to clean the future phylactery?

>>65085666
thanks satan

>>65091556
Not currently.

>>65091556
No, very dead. He self-mummified himslef.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxgQye7XRjY

>>65057692
A lich who was forced to become one?

>>65091674
>>65092015
Ah my fault. It was that dude.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashi-Dorzho_Itigilov

>>65057692
I think some demiliches are good aligned

And I know I remember some elvish drauger thing where they were basically liches except good but I cant remember what dnd setting it was

>>65091460
Name on evil act he did
>good tennis player
>scientist
>Solves deathspin in aircraft
>Advises on winning war

>>65092208
>Winning the war involves killing thousands of civilians and leaving more homeless.
Yeah General Sherman burning his way through the South was integral to winning the American Civil War but I wouldn't call him a Good person either.

>>65057720
Grow up, dumbass zoomer. You're going to arrive to adulthood any day now and already be tired that everyone is trying some soulless remix of an established trend for the sake of novelty unto itself, especially once you realize there's no new ideas under the sun and the vast majority of "novel ideas" are the same shit you've already seen a dozen times before.
There's absolutely nothing new about trying to break the alignment system, kiddo. You'll figure that out one day.

>>65094193
Seconded. I've wanted a reverse Logan's Run for a long time now.

>>65087688
That's all she wrote, go bug her if you want more
http://pirate-cashoo.tumblr.com/tagged/vroscaz

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>>65092116

Yes, that's our man Duane
>>65066382
>>65066413

>>65081852
My DM has something like this, he basically scrolled down the pathfinder Monster Template list and created a bunch of liches with different templates that alter their abilities and appearence, giving a real "league of superheroes" vibe to them, as they are all completely different yet still liches.

There's a Titanic sized lich (shrinks with Polymorph when needed), a Timebreaker Lich, Moss Lich, Psychic Lich, Hell Engine Lich, etc.

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>>65090061
>Lick

>>65057692
A scholar who wasn't about to let death get between him and learning the secrets of the universe.
He has no plans for world domination, or really anything naughty. He just wants to read books, do experiments, and publish a book every few years.
He follows "reasonable" guidelines for the unsavory parts of Lichdom, he has contacts within a few kingdoms to buy criminals slated for execution whenever he needs someone to die, or else hires people to act as vigilantes and bounty hunters himself to bring in the scum of the world.

Alternatively, a remnant from a "harsh times call for harsher methods" era of history, where a great hero or leader became fatally ill or took a mortal wound during a crises, and the fate of the world was at stake if they died, so it was agreed that for the good of everything, they could not die, by fair means or foul, so now they are just still around.

>>65092208
>uses a chaotic stupid/stupid evil strategy that drains the nation's resources and needlessly throws away her sons in wasteful bombing raids that serve no purpose beyond increasing the sum total of human suffering in the war; doesn't even reduce the enemy's ability to wage war in any appreciable manner
At best, he's the dumbfuck rogue who makes everything worse through terrible schemes at every turn. At worst, he's the edgelord sorcerer whose only solution to any problem is torturing people with fire.

>>65058402
Not necessarily, there are good 'liches'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baelnorn

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>>65057692

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>>65057762
>Or druid necromaner

>>65057692
I made a hillbilly who concocted a glass of magic moonshine and accidentally became a lich after drinking it. Now he runs a clusterfuck of a shop/study in his own demiplane slapping together whatever he finds and then selling it

>I need ideas for Neutral/Non Evil Lichs

Literally an Archlich

>>65096344
>where a great hero or leader became fatally ill or took a mortal wound during a crises,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Cid#Defeat

>After his demise, but still during the siege of Valencia, legend holds that Jimena ordered that the corpse of El Cid be fitted with his armour and set on his horse Babieca, to bolster the morale of his troops. In several variations of the story, the dead Rodrigo and his knights win a thundering charge against Valencia's besiegers

>>65057692
They have long ago abandoned their grand evil ideas and now just want to live out in their isolated mega forts at sea, just harvesting the life from passing pirates or sea creatures, and otherwise just having an ANCAP lifestyle where even fishers can pull right up near the lich's shore, but may God have mercy on you if you so much as step on his sand, because then he drops a recreational mcFinger-of-death on you and your whole crew.

>>65058342
>>65062021
but this isn't just a 5e thing. This dates all the way back to tomb of horrors, where acerack was a demilich, just a floating skull because he neglected to feed

>>65057837
lich who decided to become one so he could make parties forever
he knows he can't take pleasure from it anymore, so he decides to be a patron of fine arts instead, promoting all sorts of parties that spiral down into hedonistic slaaneshi murder-orgies

well, look at the undying from eberron for good, magical undead.

there are plenty of ways you can get an undead spellcaster made of spooky bones. But a lich, is a villian with a phylactary that consumes souls to feed the lich. It is a parasite that feeds on the life of others, much like a vampire. powerful magic like this should always be difficult to attain, so scenarios where one accidentally becomes a lich are mostly contrived.

Becoming a lich is fundamentally evil and your existence is an anthema to life itself.

for a lich to become nonevil is to strip it of it's lore. It's just a skeleton that casts spells.

>>65097684
Demilichdom, despite the very misleading and inappropriate name, was not a state of decay until 5e. It was a further advancement beyond base lichdom that the soul gems embedded in the skull were crafted to attain.

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>>65057692
go for a fallen lord idea, agents of the leveler, forces of nature, good beings bound to an evil will or spirits that bind them selves to artifacts to keep them chained for as we know
"But they say that the darkest artifacts have the ability to bend men to their will. Calling soundlessly to the wicked and discontent from thousands of miles away or hundreds of feet beneath the earth or sea, and that in this way they always come to light again, no matter how buried or forgotten."

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>>65066382
>>65094501
what's this shit from?
i need it

>>65099234
The webcomic is named Unsounded.

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>>65099412

>>65057692
No such thing. Use a powerful archmage or something instead. Becoming a Lich is an evil process. Changing that makes it not a lich.

>>65099747
okay then, arbiter of all that is lichdom

>>65057692
How about some not quite liches to scratch the same itch without being a nuisance.

>lich concubine: she was captured by a dark sorceror who cursed her into unlife to be forever with him, but he was defeated and she was left imprisoned in his tower, her body decaying in time until explorers found her. She's a sorceress as a result of the magic around her, but not yet skilled. Maybe she's a princess to a now dead kingdom and people who have forgotten her.

>scifi lich: a robot AI with a body built around a human skeleton. Claims to be a human uploaded to a computer, claims its his skeleton, is likely either lying or insane. The skeleton he uses as a body may not match his claims about his past.

>Con lich king: reanimated skeleton minion left with no master, was a silver tongued thief in life. He fakes the part of an evil and powerful lich, somehow amasses power and followers, plays the part of an evil overlord but ultimately just improves the lives of people under him as a fair ruler. If anyone actually fought him he'd easily die.

>>65099947
>arbiter of all that is lichdom
I wish. Then I could tell these pussy liches what’s what.

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>>65099747
An archmage has very little 'style' to them. When you have an archmage its usually an elf or a human or something and their race will define aspects of them. Liches are blank slates that you can make into anything you want and they've somehow got an interesting aura about them.
Without overusing the word 'style' a lich as a villain can either have 0 cares or all of the cares in the world. Something about them causes them to have the highest potential out of all villain types and NPC types.
In this thread alone there are better draft ideas of lich villains than actual good villains in any given campaign.
>Dwarf Fortress Liches
>Druid Liches with a bigass tree phylactery >>65057762
>Marine Biologist Liches >>65057793
>Party God Lich >>65057837
>Complacent Lich >>65057842
>Accidental Lich (many in the thread)
>Ancient Death Warden Lich >>65058452
>Democratic Lich >>65058479
>Librarian-of-dead-city Lich >>65058524
>Necrophile Lich >>65059098
>Love-stricken Lich >>65060132
>Positive Energy Lich >>65061745
>Depressed Lich
>Buddy-Cop drama, Lich>>65063191
>Philosophy Lich >>65063843
>Unfortunate Lich>>65063959
>Sokushinbutsu Lich >>65064541
>Retired Lich >>65064806
>Benevolent Lich
>Biologist Lich
>Phoenix X Lich slashfic
>Killer Queen Lich
>Local Hero Lich>>65064837
>Succubus Lich >>65064952
>Vincent Van Goth Lich >>65065461
And many others (sorry if I missed your Lich).
But I'm beginning to suspect that liches, despite being so far detached from humanity, are the embodiments of various aspects of humanity and use their immortality to carry out these vestiges of their human nature. That might just be what makes them so fun to use and interesting to design.

>>65100542
I like the cut of your gib. How would you make a basic skeleton lich look unique? I'm just really attached to "robed skeleton with glowing eyes," as generic as it is, and it's pretty hard finding good clothes a skeletal body can wear without looking small/silly in to begin with. Some lich/skeletal characters are stylized so much that they don't even resemble human skeletons anymore, and I don't think I want to go that far.

>>65057692
My PC is a good lich (the rest of the party doesn't know, yet) turned by an NPC who trained us all (and has since died, my PC is determined to bring the PC back ASAP but I have a long way to go). His motivation was simply he was getting old but wasn't ready to give up on protecting people and the NPC thought this was the best way.

>>65058268
Okay, simple way to do this.
>use immortality for good, protecting everyone you can
>word gets out that you're a protector
>eventually develop a following
>reveal self to be lich
>there will, guaranteed, be some people willing to give their lives so you can live on to protect others, many who would be old and dying anyway

>>65086454
>liches are vampires now
It was there in 1st ed, though it was changed later.
>implies that demilichdom is anything but an upgrade
5e does have the acerack variant for making them the next evolution of lich.
>>65097684
>just a floating skull because he neglected to feed
no no, he still needed to feed, but his lichdom was elevated, with his body reducing itself to a simple skull and and gems to steal adventurer's souls and his mind free floating in the astral domain where he did whatever.

>>65101476
>unique looks
I had an idea for a steelmill Lich who is the foreman. He'll have a manufactured lower jaw made of iron and have 4 legs (2 of which are mechanical) and 4 arms (2 of which are mechanical). For his actual attire I'm not sure yet.
He's going to make good use of the spells from a 5e 3rd party supplement called "Book of Lost Spells" so he can telekinesis chunks of Iron to give himself 3/4 cover and fire them off as legendary actions (reducing his cover in the meantime). Because he has a spider motif I'll let him use a grapple and fire iron webbing to pin people and a stream of iron webs to push people back, things like that. The leitmotif will have to be electronic with an industrial feel with maybe some slow ambient heavy metal for when he enters his "Last Stand" phase (which most of my liches will have).
The problem is that with 5e the players can't look at the rock used to represent the Lich on the game mat and see a kick-ass Lich, they see a rock. So I'm going to have the 'appearance' of the Liches also key-off of their mannerisms, actions, and leitmotifs. DnD, unfortunately, isn't a visual medium so visual design isn't a big thing.

>>65101476
>How would you make a basic skeleton lich look unique?
I miss-read your question my dude, ignore the huge word-wall above if you want.
To make the standard Lich look unique you would have to give him a theme because just putting a different dress and eye color on him won't cut it. A lich is even more of a blank slate than a standard villain because mortal villains can have different races that immediately give them personality but Liches are all the same all the time.

An example could be giving him a few props to work with. The standard lich has a robe that hangs off him like a sheet on a hat stand, after all the fuss to become immortal he won't allow himself to lose the fashion game, losing isn't on his mind. Giving him a sleeker fitting green robe with brown trim and some well-placed antlers or twigs will give his frame substance. Then give him a blackroot staff and maybe a tree-root dagger in his off-hand and you've got a Lich that gives an immediate presence.

>>65101593
>>65101632
They're both brilliant, you know your stuff.

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>>65058013
>>65058020
Even in the context of D&D he's wrong, Baelnorns have existed since 3e and are explicitly good aligned liches empowered by the unanimous consent of the Seldarine

>A baelnorn could be of any non-evil nature, mainly lawful good, retaining whatever alignment it had in life.

>Old as fuck lich
>So old, he only remembers distinctly what happened in the last three century or so, and everything beyond 1 millenium ago is a blur like when you try to remember how preschool was like
>Time travel shenanigan means he meets a version of himself that is extremely worse than he is and need to figure out if he's a past or future version of himself, since neither of them remember.

>>65078470
wiz best lich

>>65102038
>I know my stuff
I just design one-shots and campaign ideas. I don't actually run anything and only play as a player on the occasion. Maybe I should actually carry through and DM the Lich Gauntlet for them...

>>65079141
Incredibly underrated. Don't mind me while I steal from you quickly.

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>>65057692
in my current group's setting necromancy is not outlawed and many mages practice it(there's no good/evil bullshit and alignments). A person can become a lich with a special permission from the government, basically you can undergo the transformation under their supervision but they keep your phylactery in case the transformation drives you insane or you start causing shit.

>>65103358
Seems like the setup for a fun heist, getting a phylactery out of this place. Maybe a nice twist at the end when the patron is a lich looking to steal back the leverage the kingdom has on him.

>>65103358
What game

>>65105754
>>65103358
Divinity: Dragon Commander
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej8fQmgxFlY

>>65092628
Oh not fucking here too. I swear to god if I see one more civil war autist on non-/pol/ threads I'm gonna lose my shit

>>65057692
A cynical bard, cursed by the god of song to roam the earth until he can truly understand the meaning of music

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>guy that wants to live forever out of curiosity
>uses a few convicts to attain lichdom
>sits in his house and reads books, on occasion venturing out to some neighboring towns
>only the truly autismal can say that he's evil for killing condemned criminals

>>65057692
Liches as dungeonpunk transhumanists.
Liches as immortal guardians who take their job very seriously.
Liches as bored underworld functionaries who would rather be fishing or something.

I mean really, existing symbolism aside, is there anything inherently morally objectionable about a skeleton wizard?

>>65108663
>skeleton wizard
>his liches aren't deboned rubbery flesh things

>>65108799
I must now have one of my NPCs be a globster lich. Thank you anon.

>>65108846
Lol

>>65108846
the globoglabaglab?

>>65108846
Imagine his prune head trying to give a villain speech without a skull, jaw, or teeth. Just a big floppy tongue lolling about in a drooling mouthsack.

>>65057692
>Holy order of necromancers that specifically ask permission from souls before using their bodies, makes sure to be respectful of the bodies and perform last rites for fallen enemies when they're done
>Comes to believe undeath is simply an ascended level of life, lichdom is seen as akin to nirvana
>Lichdom is granted through rituals with their god of death
>As a result, not as powerful as "left handed" necromancy, but generally allows for more spiritual strength

>>65073532
>is just an intelligent undead spellcaster
No its not. A lich is an undead magical being of such great fucking power that even slaying it will not keep it down and it will return to unlife to continue furthering its evil schemes until its phylactery is destroyed. It, unlike other intelligent undead, is completely free from all forms of compulsions and influences which is why, in D&D, Orcus created a corrupted path to lichdom that requires them to eat a soul every now and again and twists their minds to his service. It isn't just
>skeleton casts fireball
The very nature of magic and undead mean that rituals of supreme power are necessary for the creation of such a creature requiring either the sacrifice of massive amounts of innocents specifically tainting one's soul with evil, the blessing of multiple deity level powers, or the discovery of primordial power sources and rituals to safely use them.

>>65113080
You known that no DM needs to follow d&d "lore" right? And even d&d lore has good lichs since tghe first editions?

>>65111423
>>65108846
>>65108799
https://imgur.com/gallery/mcupf

Skeleton Jelly?

I got one: only in slaves thats and Chad's and generally stupid people who contribute nothing ot society.

>>65115708
It's been a minute.

>>65115708
but its a lich?

>>65115708
but where is part 3?

>>65086081
>no phylactery
disgusting

>>65058268
Good. Some souls need to be removed from circulation.

>>65079141
I got into this post more than I expected. Great story.

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>>65112429
>Lich Paladins

now you've gone and done it

>>65057692
Only thing that could possibly make sense is another evil wizard took your lich hostage and was using him as a test dummy to see if his lich making recipe would kill your Koch or not before trying it on himself.

Obviously he was successful but something went wrong and he wasn’t able to destroy your lich(likely because of his newfound power) and now your Lich is in the precarious situation of beint a being of undead energy despite not choosing to undergo the process himself.

He would need a good reason to not have immediately committed suicide as well.

Lich by pure definition is evil. An Archlich, a technically different creature, is a good or neutral being who is so focused on their work they die and keep on trucking.

What you want is a mislabeled Archlich who has to spend a huge amount of time explaining the difference and proving himself. The parties dickishness in these proceedings drives them into moral debt and pushes your next plot point.

>>65115264
I would understand if "lich" was an actual mythological creature, but it is just a random monster that a bunch of dude made up on the 70s VERY loosely based on a russian story.

So everyone should be free to interpret "undead spellcaster" as they want.

>>65057692
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pb5oIIPO62g

>>65057692
Why liches, who are explicitly a form of wizard? Wight would suit you better, as it can do more classes.

>>65057692
Look, either you're using D&D lore, in which case you want something else - Maybe a golem, maybe just a one-off, I don't know

Or you don't give a shit, in which case you just make a neutral / non evil lich like any other normal human being

There is no conflict here other than your attempt to gather [you]s

>>65119219
refer to rule 0
I'm treating liches as generic undead spell casters and it doesn't matter if they're good or evil because they're going to make a really cool league of villains that the players will have to look after.

>>65057692
Well-meaning but socially retarded autist who gets along with the dead better than the living.
Appointed guardian of a clan's ancestor spirits, preserving their memory through the generations of decendents and summoning them when most needed to protect the bloodline.
Edgy yet justified anti-thiest seeking to escape the shitty afterlife fate of the setting's unfaithful(looking at you, forgotten realms)
Eternal benevolent monarch, golden throne optional.
Self-sacrificing hero(s) who accept cursed unlife to forever safegaurd a great evil from being resurrected(bonus points for adopting and raising a young child brought by demons as a sacrifice, who even wins over the heart of your gruff ghost wizard companion)
Full atlas shrugged libertarian ancapistan conqueror who buys bodys and souls fairly in regulation-free economy and uses them for cheap factory labour.

>>65057692
The Mortuary Cult from Warhammer's Nehekhara.

>>65057837
Ahh that reminds me of another option, scrooge without a Christmas carol who refuses to let go of his gold and just continues to hoard more wealth into eternity for it's own sake even though he can no longer enjoy any of the pleasures such wealth can buy, maybe start a central world Bank in time.

>>65058013
You don't know what you're talking about, neutral liches are old in d and d including some that just research magic so hard they miss themselves dying and keep going.
While you whine about 'kids these days ruining how everything used to be" you have no idea how things used to be and are just idolizing a fictional past you've invented based on what appeals to your preferences and those preferences towards black and white, no depth or nuance, always Evil bs are ironically a childish new edgy counter reaction to more long-standing variety.

>>65057692
M U H
S U B V E R S I O N

Alright /tg/ you've convinced me.
I'm going to commit and run a campaign with the League of Liches©.
Theres going to be:
>Davey Jones Marine Biologist Lich
>Druid Lich
>Mechanical Spider Lich
>Master Thief Lich
>Martial Artist Lich
>Ballroom Dancer Lich
>Painter Lich
>Titanfall Pilot Lich
>Depressed Lich
>Accidental Lich
And its gonna be great.

>>65058402
>>65113080
>becoming a lich involves going entirely against the law and inherent goodness of 99.9% of societies out there
>requiring either the sacrifice of massive amounts of innocents specifically tainting one's soul with evil
Untrue, the whole "you have to commit an act of unspeakable evil first" bs is litterally propaganda from orcus's lackies to trick lazy tards who are stupid enough to believe demons instead of figuring it out for themselves.

>>65058865
The thing is alignment is supposed to just describe you but likewise your actions define your alignment and if you act outside your alignment enough your dm can change it as many a that guy has discovered. The problem is that this clashes with the worldview-forced-into-games of the average ALWAYS always Evil spergs.

>>65059528
>>65064824
>>65065989
Lol spergs don't care about the facts

>>65064952
>>65080714
There's already one of those who actually hijacked someone else's lich transformation ritual.

>>65080614
>>65083231
Even worse, as several anon's have pointed out they're not even correct about how things used to be, they're just hiding behind that lie as an excuse to push their feels like everyone of that type does.

>>65099747
It's honestly kind of impressive how you can be so confident and wrong at the same time, especially since multiple people have pointed out examples that contradict you.

>>65117799
>Only thing that could possibly make sense
Oooor any of the other options, even Canon ones, that people have pointed out.

>>65117913
>It's not a lich it's a different kind of lich!
Lol don't lower yourself to petty semantics, you know what everyone means and you can totally say archliches and others are just subsets of the larger lich catagory, like how all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares.

>>65119856
Except it's an old concept.
Ironically your shallow black and white always capital E Evil enemies bs is the new edgy contrarian subversion of a norm of nuance and variety.
It's just the latest hip fad embodied by generic media that only has edginess, shock value, and contrarianism going for it like goblin Slayer.

>>65119753
>scrooge who didn't get carol'd
>not scrooge who bound the ghosts into servitude (his Present obviously being dead, but I would assume he bound Marley as well)

>>65074227
In my setting we have magical cocaine made by alchemists for vampires by soaking salt in blood then drying it out until it crystallizes again inside of small copper pyramids aligned to the magnetic poles, then grinding it into a fine powder that they snort off of the asses of the city's finest prostitutes.

They also have magical wine made from ginger, chamomile, lemon, and cinnamon. (I actually drink tea made with this recipe IRL, fucking bomb yo) As well as magical weed.

>>65091422
considering how the ritual for lichdom is handed down from Orcus I'd say it's more then likely parts of it are just added for either Orcus' amusement or benefit. stuff like maybe a control mechanism or if the phylactery is destroyed then the soul would go to Orcus, but it might be possible to do a much reduced and reasonable ritual,

>>65057692
Just use a baelnorn. It's been a thing since forever.

>>65119753
>>65120493
>scrooge is interrupted by ghost busters
>becomes deathless by losing Christmas Future, expunging the writing on the stone and all that

>>65057692
>I need ideas for Neutral/Non Evil Lichs
Step 1: Don't.
Step 2: There is no Step 2.

>>65090810
No. Immunities cannot be suppressed, they're not saves.

>>65058268
Is 5e actively trying to be shit?

>>65121741
Why not use one?

>>65119856
You are a little bitch.

>>65122457
>>65122660
You are permitted to respond to constructive posts. You are not required to start a "no u" chain.

>>65057692
One of the poems I have in progress is a combination of the story of the garden of Eden and the story of the minotaur where Adam is a lich king necromancer and also an allegory about the cow moon god Suen (also identified with Adam & Moses) fighting the sun.

So Sarah loosed a thousand arrows / music of the harp
She seized him by the chest / and threw him with a kiss

She struck him in the head / with a soft carress
She locked him in a grapple / clinging to her breast

>>65124492
I'm confused by nearly everything about this.

>>65113080
I don't play DnD, faggot. Everything you're saying is rooted in one specific setting.

>>65113080
Read rule 0 stating that a lich can be anything I want it to be.
It could be a retarded undead version of rocky balboa if I want. All they do is punch things and moan AAAADRIIIAAAANNNN until you kill them. Then they come back for a sequel next year.

>>65121756
>Immunities (Ex)
>Liches have immunity to cold, electricity, polymorph (though they can use polymorph effects on themselves), and mind-affecting attacks.
>(though they can use polymorph effects on themselves)
Go fuck yourself and then actually read the rules.

>>65113080
I was wondering when you were going to show up.

>>65113080
The system is Savage Worlds not d&d.

>>65121756
youre pretty fuckin stupid y'know that?

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>>65057692
Use messed up angels, or something that isn't a lich.

Ask yourself why you want a good lich- you can make a better character that does the same thing.
Liches are skeletal because they represent corruption and decal, and a casting off of morality. Their physical decay is a visual shortcut for players to see moral decay and loss of humanity. If your character can relate to the lich, either your character is evil or your GM is using liches incorrectly.

If you want a non-evil skeleton, you just put in capital-D Death himself, or some kind of avatars of death. If you want a "good" lich then choose some other kind of immortal being that wouldn't get confused for a zombie/skeleton if seen in the dark. Like a messed up angel (the greater good can still be inhuman), some kind of person that turned themselves into golem (shedding humanity in a way that doesn't evoke concepts of decay or decadence), that kind of thing. Ghostly stuff works ok at this too, as ghosts just need a fetter/unfinished business to motivate them to not pass on ("rule my rightful kingdom," "guard the land I died protecting" etc).

If you just need a Good skeleton, just have him be a cursed hero. Don't use the word lich, b/c liches are evil. The concept of "good undead" is almost non-existent.

>>65057692
chester the cheese litch

D&D has 3 canonical methods for good and neutral liches.
1. Godlike willpower enables Neutral liches. Being able to perform the Ceremony of Endless Night because you somehow have a good, righteous goal that requires it being performed, and are absolutely certain that it was necessary, causes you to just narrowly escape Evil. Performing Evil for Good ends is Neutral. You cannot be Good, nobody Good can perform the ceremony. But Neutrals can if they have guts of steel.
2. Archlichdom. 4E made this that achieving a true lich state with ultimate magic power and skill.
3. Forced lichdom. You see, the actual mechanics of becoming a lich, the Ceremony of Endless Night, creates a potion. The Ceremony is what is heinously Evil and disgusting, the resulting potion is just a potion. Of course, the one who performed the Ceremony is usually the one to drink it and become a lich. However, this is not necessarily required. The resulting potion can be given to another or stolen. Whoever drinks it will be made into a lich, regardless of their alignment. Good aligned folk may hate this.

>>65058013
The 1e Monster Manual listed liches as Neutral. They have been non-evil since evil has been an alignment.

>>65088395
By D&D rules, they don't need to be evil

>>65083077
I guide others to a treasure I cannot possess, bros

>>65057692
Just because you act a certain way doesn't mean you'll be treated a certain way.

I got one in my setting that became a lich to research into learning or obtaining wish so he could wish for his gf back, he has no bad intentions and only woke up because the bbeg lich became active and some of the good lich's experiments escaped into a near by sewer thus leading the PCs to him

Necromancy is outlawed, in most most settings and thereby purged indiscriminately. But, being a legit "pillar" of magic, the litch becomes a teacher, to prevent the collapse of magic.

>>65066263
>the basics of storytelling
>liches
nigger what

>>65057692
Just use Egyptian style mummy priests kept alive by their gods or magic/science.

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>>65057692
Spelljammer is full of lichs taking the slow bus across space.

True story, we're all liches but we have meat on our bones for modesty. Very boring and lame liches that can't do any magic.

>>65130418
>If you just need a Good skeleton, just have him be a cursed hero.

Oooh you just reminded me of this
https://youtu.be/v0Y1tD_I6w8?t=315

>>65096832
>Necrodruid
>it can raise feral minions by imbuing the soul of feral animals into bodies of petrified wood and bone
>The vines they grow have venomous spikes that will induce necrosis that will spread from the wound
>they can use spores to enthrall trespassers while they are alive and that can keep them standing and moving even after the thrall died because of their biological needs that weren't answered, making a plant/flesh zombie
>Where a Druid is "Life" and Necromancers are "Death", they are the full cycle
>they watch over their forest and none shall be let to harm it, as both the living and dead of the forest, animal or plant, will be there to protect it alongside the Necrodruid

I like the idea.

>>65057692
A remote tribe/s that engages in ritualistic necromancy, raising the skeletons of their ancestors, decorating and painting them as a display of reverence, respect, and remembering them and what they accomplished in life (Literally painting their life story on their bones, IE, grandad was a warrior, so we paint his bones red and white, we paint a spear on his forehead and add a series of dots in a line along his cheekbones, one for each enemy warrior he slew in combat, we paint a lion, his greatest and most heroic conquest, on his shoulderblade, and so on...). The oldest and wisest tribal elders are given the chance to undertake a trial, and if successful, they undergo transformation into a Lich, and hold a seat of power and respect in the tribe from which they advise the current Chieftain with the wisdom of the ancestors. It's known that being a Lich can be a corrupting experience, which is why only the wisest elders with the greatest self-control are capable of passing the trials to become one, and why many will eventually opt to destroy their phylactery and go willingly to their graves if they fear they are losing themselves to said corruption. Each Lich Elder takes anyone they see potential under their tutelage, passing their wisdom and stories down to them, and grooming them to eventually replace the Elder when his self-control begins to falter. There have been times when an Elder has overestimated his resistance to the corruption, and his advice has led the tribe down a darker path, but most are able to control themselves for quite some time before going to their graves. Amongst the tribe, it is considered a redemptive act and an honor to offer oneself to the Elder's Phylactery to sustain his or her undead life, and is an opportunity afforded to irreparably injured or shamed tribesmen that can no longer fight or work, as well as the physically deformed or those subject to the 'demons' and shame of mental illnesses.

How's that?

>>65057714
This. Kill you are self my man op.

>>65057692
baelnorn.

>>65057692
>>65057714

non evil liches are already part of D&D, and have been for decades.

>>65139328
thats really fuggin cool. hold still while I steal from you.

>>65139764
whom do you think created this thread, a /tg/ gatekeeper? nay it was a lowly whelp from the valley of RDDT who beckons, providing bait for all.

>>65090150
And all living creatures are, by necessity, good.

>>65140171
You are very stupid if you think that my thread is bait.

>>65140171
>bait
Whats so triggering for you in such a simple thread?

>>65057692
A repentant lich. A guy who became a lich for the usual reasons, but after centuries of regret and unfulfillment has decided to put his powers and immortality to a better purpose.

I'm assuming you're house-ruling away the "must continue to feed souls to the phylactery" thing for this to work.

>>65141282
Its not savage worlds, not d&d, so there is no need to recharge souls.

>>65120781
>I don't like liches so I headcanon in a bunch of secret gotcha weaknesses to fuck over and even take control away from players who try to play them
There's a reason demons try to trick wizards into committing unspeakable acts to achieve lichdom like >>65091422
To get their souls that they wouldn't otherwise get.

>>65142975
It's not headcanon, the Orcus stuff is 4e lore. There's Mr Orcus's discount Lichdom, then the big boy proper lich Epic Destiny.

>>65134720
>>65134943
>>65139764
Always evil spergs don't care about the rules and history, it's all just an excuse to push their feelings and often politics on to the game.

>>65057692
They don't exist, but they could be driven to isolation through remorse or insanity where they can't hurt anyone.

>>65083681
They have (basically) a congress/council/court made up of mummified, undead elves.
They're generally good (although in Eberron that's never ever tied to your race). That's because they're not liches who sacrificed thousands to gain untold power and lord it over the flesh sacks below them.

>>65057714
Fpbp