>>62205358
I don't use roll20, I have a group in real life.

I've hidden every thread about it because it's shit i don't give a fuck about. Try making a thread about games.

>>62205358
Doesn't affect me, so I don't care

As I understand it this is some sort of shitstorm about reddit moderation. Why would I care about this?

>>62205454
It started off as that but it just sorta snowballed out of control and now people are deleting their roll20 accounts and migrating to FantasyGrounds/GMforge/etc in droves.

It's not just the reddit too, if you follow the rabbit whole you can see that roll20 has a long history of supressing "toxic" users giving negative feedback both on the subreddit and their forums.

I think you should stop spamming this fake outrage bullshit. You wanna talk about the issue? Got to fucking r/roll20 you retarded cunt

>>62205358
>What do you think of the whole shitshow that just happened with roll20?
It sure killed a lot of threads on /tg/.

>>62205358
This is the third thread about this and the second one hasn't even autosaged yet.

As I said in the other thread, this is fucking great, all the redditors are leaving roll20 meaning there are going to be so fewer shit players in LFG groups.

>>62205358
Sounds like they should have hired a dedicated community manager instead of the way they were running things. I don't really care since I don't use virtual table tops. Please stop making threads about it.

>>62205591
>all the redditors are leaving roll20 meaning there are going to be so fewer shit players in LFG groups
This. If Dipshit McAAAAAGHFUCKUNOOOLAN is leaving, good riddance.

Unironically, thank you for making this thread, I was unaware of the situation.

>>62205358
What did the company do wrong, again?

Nobody has a RIGHT to be on a website. They can ban whoever the fuck they want for any reason. What's the big fuckin deal?

>>62205358

I think it was just Tuesday on the internet until reddit faggots blew it up to be the Scandal of Our Generation.
>Baww some dude can't post on the roll20 subreddit anymore! Nerd rage! NERD RAGE!

The "proof" that he's an innocent victim is flimsy, too. "Oh he has a different IP so he can't be the same guy evading a ban" Sure, that's totally how that shit works.

>>62205591
My experience with roll 20 is that I wasn’t able to ever find a group through it, so I have no real idea what 5e regular player R20 plays like, but from what I read in player apps is that they’re mostly looking for safe spaces to play their snowflakes races like fucking TABAXI and FEY CORGI or whatever the fuck else they got.

But on the other hand, I want to play a sorcerer who’s the love child of a halfling and a tiefling. So basically a tiefling with size small

>>62205534
>people are joining [paid service] and [paid service] in droves
Yeah fuck off shill. When someone makes a service that gives actual functionality without absurd cost for pickup games, I’ll take a look.

GMForge is unoptimized ass, FantasyGrounds is a clusterfuck the second you go off script, and Tabletop Sim can’t even get fucking character sheets working without an assload of scripting.

When there is another system that has the same level as “Pick up and play” utility as Roll20, I will HAPPILY switch, but until then I’ll stick with this mediocre trash over that mediocre trash that people only stick with because of sunk cost fallacy.

>>62205358
I don't use Roll20, can I get a quick rundown?

Absolutely shocked that a guy who created a way for people involved in an autistic hobby to not even have to be in the same room has poor social skills

>>62205454
The reddit moderator in question is also a roll20 cofounder

>>62205803
And therefore people are allowed to get pissed off at a shitty policy. No company has a right to be free from outrage.

>>62205803
That’s where you’re wrong fucko, being diligent with bans and kicks on the internet, because the wrong ban can and will in fact blow in your face at the worst of times for the worst reasons possible

>>62205803
>What did the company do wrong, again?

Bad community management, and worse handling of the ensuing PR disaster. Doubt anything comes of it long term.

>>62205847
Roll20 banned a buttmad faggot. He is spamming the subreddit about how this is censorship, and blah blah blah muh rights, so he got banned there too. People latched onto it because people love being outraged, and are spamming everywhere they can with this shit like anyone actually gives a fuck that some jackass got banned from a website.

>>62205847
Guy got banned from the roll20 subreddit by a mod who is also one of the guys who founded roll20. Guy asked to be unbanned, was refused, got increasingly upset and said he'd cancel his roll20 subscription if the ban wasn't lifted. Guy was told that they might have removed the ban but since he sent them multiple messages about it they'd keep the ban. Then it turned out the initial ban was a mistake. Guy posted screencaps on reddit, mod/developer gave a fake apology while insisting he was right to ban the guy.

>>62205859
>>62205869
>>62205894

Right, but the losers here are the crybabies getting upset over nothing. You can be mad at the company for a retarded reason, but it does make you a fucking retard.

t. someone who never heard of roll20 before today and has never played DnD

>>62205803
Nobody has the RIGHT to customers either though. When you piss them off what do you expect to happen?

>>62205825
>from what I read in player apps is that they’re mostly looking for safe spaces to play their snowflakes races like fucking TABAXI and FEY CORGI or whatever the fuck else they got.
>But on the other hand, I want to play a sorcerer who’s the love child of a halfling and a tiefling. So basically a tiefling with size small
At least you are self aware and should fit right in!

>>62205847
Some guy got banned from the roll20 reddit because he was posting with a similar name as another guy banned ages ago for criticising roll20, as well as also criticising roll20 themselves. He unsubscribed and deleted his own roll20 account and posted about it on his blog.

Reddit shat itself over the travesty of someone getting banned from a subreddit and lots of people also unsubscribed and decided not to use roll20 any more.

Several other systems have been brought up as alternatives to roll20.

Some people think it's stupid. Some people want reddit to leave. Some people post about this on 4chan.

>>62205896
He didn't get banned from roll20! He only got banned from the subreddit itself.

He deleted his own account.

>>62205534
>It started off as that but it just sorta snowballed out of control and now people are deleting their roll20 accounts and migrating to FantasyGrounds/GMforge/etc in droves.
Who cares. It's not like roll20 was ever any good at finding decent games with strangers, anyway. I'll just keep using it to play online tabletop with my friends who live out of state, which is what it's good for.

>>62205921
No, I get that.
I just don't see why people are upset in the first place. Is it just Tumblr/Reddit culture?

>>62205358
I think this Nolan guy is an idiot who just learned the hard way how not to PR.

>>62205835
>When someone makes a service that gives actual functionality without absurd cost for pickup games, I’ll take a look.
Astral is free, shit-all storage space but that's the same with R20. Some more functionality in macros from what little I've tested out, though it doesn't have fog of war yet and no music player planned.
https://www.astraltabletop.com/

>>62205847
Basically, it's a website that lets you play tabletop games over the internet.

The subreddit for it was moderated by employees from the company, and both it and the in-site forums banned people for criticising it.

One guy got banned because he "was suspected of being an alt account of a previously banned user" (Read: his username started with the same word as another user who made his account after he made his, and that user just so happened to be banned from r/roll20 for, you guessed it, criticising the platform, specifcially how the forums were moderated)

He then posted a thread on r/dnd (https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/9iwarj/after_5_years_on_roll20_i_just_cancelled_and/) detailing his experience and it blew up, the mod who banned him (who was also the co-founder of roll20) responded and got -20k downvotes. r/Roll20 was spammed with memes.

>>62205358
If the system fill its purpose most dedicated player won migrate and learn a new system, the political investments only weaken roll20 kinda like an open wound.

>>62205977
>ban some guy out of pure paranoia
>he fights back
>act like a snide corporate stooge
Wow, I wonder how this basic, well-tested blend of outrage induction could have induced such outrage.

>>62206004
> VTT without fog of war

>>62205977
Beats me. I don't know what pisses off reddit people, because I don't go there. It should be a given that if you're going to court reddit by moderating a page for them you should know how to play their games though.

>>62206035
I use reddit occasionally, and it never ends well when a company runs their own subreddit.

>>62206034
Yeah it's a bit strange, there is dynamic lighting which can restrict vision to rooms you haven't been and so on. I personally didn't get caught on that since I don't really use FoW much but for going through proper dungeons might be a bit unwieldy.

>>62205825
W...whats a fey corgi...

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>>62206070

>>62205559
Literally nothing of value was lost.

>>62206126
looks like a good boy.
Would play

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>>62206126

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>>62205358
These guys know they're leaving an arguably good service over some guy getting banned from a dumb subreddit, right?

Who the hell cares?

>>62206229
Issue isn't the service (which for the record I'm very thankful for). It's the people running said service. What happened apparently isn't exactly new, just the latest and most well-documented version. Slap on some very bad PR that indicates zero ability to admit a basic mistake or even connect with your community in an honest way, and no wonder people don't want to support that.

>>62205454
Because he banned a customer on the grounds of "Your username is like a faggot we banned a year ago", and when he finds that it wasn't, he kept him banned because he had the NERVE to complain about the unwarranted ban. When Nolan claimed his livelihood was being threatened, his lungs got torn out and has been on radio silence since.

So it's a case of "Company is dickbag to customer, faces the consequences".

Don't care t.b.h, guy who whines look as faggy as the roll20 PR and those who choose to leave in droves are even bigger faggots who just want something to be outraged at.
I only use roll20 with close irl friends but I say good riddance.

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>>62206229

You can't stand between Reddit and Internet Justice, anon! Some guy who probably wasn't ban evading got banned from a subreddit for ban evading, then the dude who did it had the nerve to say he's sorry, but like not in a way I believe! Can you believe it? This is worse than imprisoning Nelson Mandela!

>>62205803
>Nobody has a RIGHT to be on a website
This is true, but you don't have the right to be free from retaliation from your customers.

>>62206229
the only real advantage of roll 20 is its free and you don't have to download anything.

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>>62206229
Because it could be you that gets an unwarranted ban next. Even the slightest hint of abuse needs to end in your ass getting thoroughly kicked. Did you graphically describe violence against woman or children, or have a racist character, or say "nigga please" at some point, or turn down a player who just so happened to be a gay trans black autistic jew? Any time staff of a paid service step out of line, they need to suffer the consequences. They need customers, customers don't need them.

https://app.roll20.net/forum/post/6834796/roll20-subreddit-status-and-moderation-changes

Mod team was disbanded and handed to r/lfg

>>62206468
Wow, an actual apology. Can't say I blame them for just up and running like that, though it does seem pretty cowardly.

>>62206468
Oh wow they're actually doing something competent about it. I'm surprised.

>>62206407
>or turn down a player who just so happened to be a gay trans black autistic jew?

DESU your own fault for using roll20's LFG instead of litterally anything else.

>>62206229
This is tipping a lot of people off to R20 spiraling down the drain. Anyone that's followed the sparse and negligible updates to their service would already have no interest in supporting their development. They seem to just be interested in keeping up the community and their place in the market, with no ambitions for making the service better or fixing all the bugs and issues that people have pointed out over the years. Not facilitating discussion and critique on their own forums, and then showing they also want to censor it on social media, isn't a good showing but not that big a deal on its own. Burn Bryte was what broke the camel's back for me and I've never hoped for anything from them again.

>>62206302
>finds that it wasn't (the same guy)

Correction: he finds that the guy has a different IP now. That's hardly proof that two guys with similar names both posting walls-o-text about how Roll20 is shiiiiiit are not the same guy.

>>62206909
>zero evidence
>b-but they both wrote walls of text
>original user banned because they dared criticize roll20
It's amazing you think some good optics can be fished from this dumpster fire.

>>62206909
The guy also had a different writing style and was active and on the site longer than the guy he was supposedly an alt account of.

>>62206966
https://www.reddit.com/user/apostleoftruth/overview Original guy who got banned 1 year ago, redditor for 1 year.
https://www.reddit.com/user/ApostleO/overview Guy who got banned by mistake, redditor for 5 years.

>>62205358
I play free so doesn't matter to me, reddit.

>>62205358
Basically it goes like this.

>reddit user gets banned
>asks why
>was told he had a previous account that was banned a year ago.
>reddit user is buttmad because it is false and goes full autist gathering evidence.
>reddit user messages roll20 website, still buttmad but keeping his cool on the messages.
>provides evidence to show that the accounts are just 2 different users with similar names. requests the complaint be sent to reddit admins so they can check the IP.
> IP checks show that they were 2 different users.
> subreddit mod still keeps him banned because he did not like his "attitude" when he sent the angry messages to roll20 website.
>turns out /r/roll20 mod is is one of the owners of the roll20 website.

and then there is shit like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK-H0dDeG38

This seems like a classic case of a bunch of silicon valley chucklefucks who have coding skill but little business skill. Banning a guy for posting negative feedback and because his username was similar to a 'toxic' person is something no sane businessman would do. The dude clearly paid a fair share to Roll20, so he's exactly the type of guy you want to give good customer service to to ensure the continued business. Even if that means tolerating somebody who's a bit angry. The response to that and the following shitstorm shows they have no clue how to do crisis management. Good case study for people looking into how not to do PR.

As for the practical effects, I'm hoping this gets people who are developing alternatives to get their shit together. If I was running one of those, I would try to milk this as much as possible. A good virtual tabletop would be great, so hopefully this lights a fire under the dev's asses.

>>62205358
NolanT should be fired. Apparently, he believe in race based prejudiced and is sexting to boot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK-H0dDeG38

Who cares; people who pay for roll20 are mouthbreathers who deserve to have their throats crushed.

>>62205803
Cool. No one is talking about having them arrested. We are angry because they are acting like fucking morons. It's legal to be racist, too, but that doesn't mean if you shout "nigger" in the street people aren't going to rightfully get angry at you.

Stop strawmanning.

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>>62205803
You’re exactly right but this is also true:
>excessively ban people
>”okay this product sucks, fuck you, let’s take our business elsewhere”

They don’t have a right to anybody’s usage either.

>>62207283
> roll20 team having coding skill

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>see this guy
>"Hey, can we set up a d&d game with some youtubers to promote your product"
>"WHHHIIIITTTEEEEEE MAAALLLLEEEEESSSS?
Can someone edit NolanT to look like the white male guy?

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>>62207406
This 1

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>>62207196
NolanT uses people of color to promote his app? How progressive.

>people just NOW realizing Roll20 is comprised of a bunch of hacks
The fact that they’re extremely slow about updating their features (but not slow about charging your account) and are missing sheets for a ton of popular games should have tipped most people off. I personally cancelled my paid account when they started retweeting Adam “Gender Should Be a Slider” Kobel’s garbage politics opinions on their front page.

>>62205803
Sure why did he have to bake a cake for that gay wedding.
wait no
we aren't talking about that.

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>>62207517
But do you have to bake a cake for a white wedding?

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>>62207555
It's a nice day for a white wedding

>>62205914
Why are you here and why haven't you ended your miserable life yet, you subhuman animal?

>>62207511
Sometimes it takes a 15 posts on the front page to break the camel's back

>>62207559
Except that never happened.

>>62207379
Their service is pretty poorly optimized and buggy as hell (I could never get the music player to work properly). Still, the point was that they're shit at running a business.

>>62207559
alt-reich BTFO

>>62207511
>and are missing sheets for a ton of popular games
>popular
Like what? I'm not being flippant, I'm genuinely curious.

>>62205853
>The reddit moderator in question is also a roll20 cofounder
So? Should I be offended and stop buying Burger King if I found out the CEO is a mod on 4chan who bans people who disagree with him?

>>62205358
I don't give a fuck if some dude got banned off reddit.

>>62205358
Who did roll20 rape in the Estrosphere?

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>>62205914
>You can be mad at the company for a retarded reason
While i am not really getting my underwear in a knot about reddit being ban happy circle jerk they do have a point.
this is poor community management and a shamfull display from them.

>>62205358
I don't use Roll20.

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>>62207559

>>62206190
>/gdg/ and /wbg/, the last bastions of /tg/ getting shit done, are nothing of value
The absolute state of newfags

>>62206126
>Hating something /tg/ made
What is wrong with you?

>>62206060
Your kind isn't welcome here

>>62207669
It is a shameful display of NolanT. The guy believe in race based prejudice.

>>62207559
Do you believe in race based prejudice against white people? Good luck with that.

>>62205358

The mod/creator of roll20 was in the wrong... and shouldn't have been a mod at all. However, people are brigading that shit and acting like a bunch of fucking idiots. The whole roll20 sub was nothing like "WHY DONT U DELETE THIS U FAGS" etc.

It sounds like the roll20 people handed the sub over to the /r/lfg people. So, that's good. It's usual for a sub to not be managed by the people who make the product or w.e, to make sure they're not biased.

I'm hoping roll20 gets some competition out of this though. And maybe improves a bit. They've had a monopoly on this shit for too long. imo this can only be good for the community. Roll20 isn't going out of business or anything off this...

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>We don't need another 5 white guys doing D&D on youtube.
What did he mean by this?

>>62205358
no one really cares, there are dozens of digital dice rollers and I feel like this is an attempt to astroturf but is hamfisted and poorly understood by its implementers.

If someone wants to do combat with the ebil alt wite, you have to go to /pol/. No one gives a fuck about tell tale games, they were shit and poorly managed, no one gives a shit about roll20. same story.

Roll20 has a subreddit?
Don’t they have their own forums? What’s the point of that?

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>>62207837
I do i like sam and max
fuckers should have stuck to what they did best

>>62207821
I mean, let's be blunt here.

They're right. They don't need 5 white guys to advertise their product. There are countless groups of 5-7 white dudes playing D&D you could get instead.

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>>62207821
It means they need more token trannies, blacks, and women to pander to progressive politics.

>>62207694
>/gdg/ and /wbg/
>Of value
Ah yes, that mediocre setting that nobody will ever play or record except you is so important.

>>62207511

Years back when they first introduced their module system I sent this Nolan guy an email to offer some games I'd made- chess, checkers, etc. Just simple traditional board games. I had made them for fun/for my friends but there's no good way to share that shit on there, and I offered to let them take it for a public free module. He said that free content devalues paid content, and they weren't interested. I said I didn't mind if they charged, and he said he'd get back to me and never did.

So he's definitely a little bit of an asshole, and they definitely want to charge for everything they can. Of course now with tabletop simulator my module isn't really necessary, but I thought it was kind of useful at the time.

>>62207841
the roll20 staff made one because they didn't want anyone that didn't work for them doing it so people could say mean things about them on the internet

>>62207694

Both are 90% discord now desu

>>62205358
don't care

>>62205374
fpbp

>>62207821
>Dawnforge pushes the socjus agenda for over 8 years
>Finally gets bitten by the snakes he unleashed
I hope he enjoys being the persecuted minority now

>>62207867
D&D actual plays are a dime a dozen, there’s dozens of other games people could be playing that could use the exposure.

>>62207888
their staff is pretty shit

>>62207307
>We don't need another five white guys
>This offends people
Why? They are right, the "market" of streaming roleplayers is saturated by groups of white people.

>>62207984
Minorities aren’t being kept out of YouTube roleplaying shows. If you want to see more PoCs, trannies, and gays, start a group with them.

>>62207984
Well, it helps that white people know how to read.

>>62208021
Yes, but why should a company give a shit about another group of white guys who want to be sponsored?

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>>62207867
95% of people dont care about what race a person is.
the other 5% is split between SJWs and altrighters.
a person's race is 110% irrelevent to their ability to play a game

So, to sum up the situation
>roll20 has been going to shit dev-wise and community-wise for a while
>a year ago they ban a guy on their subreddit for criticism
>a few days ago another guy (a paid sub for 5 years) with the similar username makes a couple of posts with very mild criticism gets banned as well, cause they're pretty sure it's the same guy
>goes 'wtf'
>sends a mildly worded e-mail to roll20 team
>no answer within 12 hours
>a more heated e-mail
>no answer withing 24 hours
>an even more angry rant e-mail
>mod who banned him turns out to be roll20's cofounder
>answer after 36+ hours: "Yeah, you're still banned, don't try to hold our audience hostage" (that's a literal quote)
>gets buttmad, deletes his account, posts the entire conversation with proofs on r/DnD
>gets reposted on every sub-reddit that has anything to do with rpgs
>people get just as buttmad and start deleting their accounts as well
>a couple of artists who sold their stuff on roll20 marketplace offer to send their stuff directly to anyone who bought it previously on roll20 and deleted accounts now
>some youtube streamers get on the buttmad bandwagon as well
>mod team btfo's from r/roll20
>official apology from the original problem mod/co-founder is a half-assed piece of excuse
Color me surprised. As if anyone hasn't still realized how shit roll20 is.
Move on to anything else. Fantasy Grounds and Tabletop Simulator are marginally better though. I recommend those who needs a new VTT checks out MapTools.

>>62208054
If they draw viewers, it doesn't really matter if they're white.

>>62208054
Why should a company give a shit about another YouTuber of any race, gender, or sexuality?

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>>62207984
They are a bunch that have high view counts on their respective youtube channels and make content daily as basically free advertisements for d&d related products.

They could have denied them for any reason, but they decided to deny them because of their race and sex.

It is a terrible move. How about you explain to me why denying them because of their race and sex was a smart business decision?

Fucking moron

>>62208072
How many viewers are they drawing in over any of the other dozens of standard tabletop streamers?

>>62208021
>Roleplay with a group of people who are roleplaying IRL
That's some Roleplay Inspection shit

>>62208095
>High view counts
>Less than 150k subs

>>62205358
as usual, the bad behavior of staff responding to a thing, dramatically manages to turn something nobody would care about otherwise into a shitstorm

>>62208131
Compare that to the rest of the d&d content creators. That is high.

>>62208064
This. This. This. This. A thousand times this.

>>62208095
>How about you explain to me why denying them because of their race and sex was a smart business decision?
Market saturation. Why should they care about another group of white tabletop streamers? Should a nigger playing basketball be offended that a sneaker company didn't choose to sponsor him because they already have a dozen niggers they are sponsoring?

>>62208064
I mean, unless their race is dinosaur.

>>62208071
Based and Redpilled

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>>62207984
>the market is saturated with white people
I
I never thought i would ever hear corperatee speak applied both to the race of a person and their hobby.

what is dah wyold comin' to

>>62208131
>>62208162
D&D content is an over saturated market, just breaking 10k subs without the backing of celebrity or major websites/corporations is quite a feat, honestly.

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>>62208180
If that nigger is super popular does it make sense for someone to deny him a sponsorship because of his race?

>>62208190
>Be nigger
>Play basketball
>Ask Nike if they want to sponsor me
>Nah there are plenty of blacks playing basketball and you aren't particularly good or well known
>Wow, I can't believe Nike denied me a sponsorship because of my race

The fact is that companies like to sponsor people who stand out, so unless you are the biggest or the best you damn well should have something notable whether it is being a group of ebonics speaking niggers playing GURPS or being a 7 foot tall asian basketball player from China.

>>62205853
>The reddit moderator in question is also a roll20 cofounder
You can't moderate a subreddit you're associated with the subject of. So that can't be true. WINK WINK

>people using something other than tts or forum+discord

>>62208225
Except the youtuber in question isn't super popular.

>>62207712
/tg/ makes mountains of excrement on a daily basis. Just cause it was made here doesn't mean it's good.

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>>62205825
/thread

seriously, I've seen some dumb shit players have tried passing off as "characters". The worse one i remember was basically a loli demon who needed to give blow jobs because jizz was her food source. I really, REALLY fucking wish i took a screen cap of that shit for proof. then again that entire group was a shit show. made me laugh thou so i guess there was some entertainment value in it.

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>>62208243
But the youtubers are well known. They didn't say they weren't going to sponsor them cause they weren't well known. They said they won't sponsor them cause they are white. You are shifting the goal post.

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>mfw we are now ltierally 2 years away from pushing WHITE MEN out of Table Top Role Playing games forever

>>62205358
You could count the fucks I give on a lepers hand.

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>>62208269
Except, they are in the d&d community.

>>62208280
If they weren't well known enough. If you aren't top dog you should have a hook eg. being a group of ebonics speaking niggers.

>>62208269
Then deny him on that. What does his race have to do with it.

>>62208277
>demon who needed to give blow jobs because jizz was her food source
I've seen that hentai

>>62208302
I'd be afraid if I were an old man or a garbage can. The last time antifa messed with someone who could fight back he punched the guy retarded in a single hit.

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>>62208269
They would deny them because of their popularity if that was true.

>>62208064
You kind of miss the point.

It's that roll20 put on a blindfold and toss a beanbag in any random direction and he'd hit a bunch of white dudes wanting to start a D&D youtube series or D&D podcast or some other shit like that. And in terms of marketing, no one is going to want more of the same shit.

This is why roll20 snubbed them the way they did. It was their way of saying "what do we get out of the deal? Why do WE need YOU?"

>>62208294
https://youtu.be/yqjLO6YNKV0?t=6864
Just a reminder that these 4 white dudes (including Colville) consider themselves 'a dying breed' and think that the gaming community will be 95% minorities very soon and it's the right thing and white dudes should btfo

>>62208277
Picture unrelated, obviously. Saya a pure!

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>>62208372
People don't watch d&d games because of the skin of the people playing. If you do, you are a fucking racist.

>>62208376
Yeah and that's cool and good.

Mayocide fuckin' rocks.

>>62208376
Timestamp you faggot

>>62208387
Another reminder that regular cast of Critical Role is 100% white and 95% heterosexual and it doesn't impede on their popularity. They just have to pander to the SJW audience really fucking hard. Sam Riegel even managed to get away with a blackface video without too much outrage on the community side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3w2qq05V-Y

>>62207196
>video
>Dawnforgedcast
>realize he looks and sounds just like Jeremy Hambly
>imustshipit.mp3

>>62208415
The link has time embedded. It's 1:56:00ish anyway.

>>62208421
I've never seen that lol.

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>>62208376
>mfw I just emailed Colville asking him to stop posting ttrpg videos because he is crowding out the non-white, non-male, and LGBT+ community.
Waiting for the his acknowledgement and submission to socjus.

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>>62208372
no, you missed the point.
a person's race is completely fucking irrelevant to every one except racists (both left and right wing racists).
the fact that this dude said they wouldnt work with someone becasue of their race means they are racist.

>>62208475
You should have asked him to kill himself.

>>62207712
If you genuinely believe that you haven't seen enough things /tg/ has made

>>62208488
Nah, Colville's mostly alright. He's a grognard with some typical and atypical issues associated with that, but still a decent presenter and author. Haven't seen him pushing SJW agenda much either, he seems mostly apolitical.

>>62206506
It always is more fun to watch these people double down and claim the moral high ground isn’t it?

Remember that crazy lady from a Gordon Ramsey show who ran a shady bakery and her husband was some potentially fleeing Russian guy?

Double
Down

what's with all the people that care just enough to inform the thread that they don't care?
it's just a hilarious PR disaster. you don't need to be personally invested to enjoy some internet drama.

>>62208421
I thought Sam was some sort of Hapa

>>62208387
Right, I forgot. I deal with knuckledragging genetic runoff on 4chan. Why do I forget these things?

So I'm going to do my best to explain this piece by piece so you're able to follow. The reason why roll20 doesn't need, in their supposed words, "5 white dudes" to promote their service is because they're not going to do anything to draw attention to themselves, and by extension, not do anything to draw attention to roll20. Roll20 could, as I said, point in a random direction and find an identical collection of nerds they could use instead. Hell, given that they'd worked with the one guy before, they probably already knew that this dude doesn't pull in numbers and that giving him something for free doesn't get them anything in return.

For branded content, you want something that's going to find an audience. An audience that is going to be also exposed to your product, a lot of them for the first time. As a result, you're going to want to partner with someone to produce this branded content who is going to get buzz going. And in the current advertising climate, diversity sells. A diverse group of young, attractive, charismatic people is not only going to gain more ground, it's also going to make your product look cooler by association. Meanwhile, a collection of fat, poorly groomed guys who fit the negative stereotype of what a D&D player is must be avoided at all costs - not only are they oversaturated, they are brand poison. It makes you product look uncool.

So yeah. Roll20 made the right call in not hiring a bunch of fat white dudes to promote their product. Their only fuckup was telling the guys upfront "we don't need another 5 white guys."

>>62208392
>Mayocide fuckin' rocks.
Go back to /r/drama you insipid faggot. You got some more bussy to huff.

>>62208562
>/r/drama
Nah. They're all fuckin' dorks.

>>62208555
Nah, he's white. His wife is either Japanese or Filipino, I think. So their kids would be hapas.

>>62208554
Because people genuinely don't care about whatever dumb bullshit "scandal" is going on now.

>>62208522
>he seems mostly apolitical
>Colville states that White males need to leave TTRPGs in order to let non-white cis males flourish

>>62207712
I hate dumb shit and people who pretend to like it.

>>62208558
I think you are wrong. You can market to more than a single demographic. D&D is still a white male majority. You can market to them and market to another audience at the same time.

From what it was framed, it looks more like an ideological decision and less a marketing one.

>>62207511
What I'm shocked by is that they didn't realize when the "fuck you" update hit them right in the face with Burn Bryte.

>>62205977
>being mad at a company that bans paying customers for no reason
>tumblr/reddit culture

rly makes u think

>>62208558
>they're not going to do anything to draw attention to themselves
Imagine a world in which people are judged by the content they produce instead of the color of their skin.

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>>62208558
You forgot your losing logo.

>>62208622
>government
>don't thread on me
>companies and corporations
>harder, daddy
Libertarians are funny people

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>>62208376
how does the dude with pink hair manage to look in the mirror everyday and not kill himself?
like holy fuck.
does he not realize that he looks absolutely awful?

>>62208637

It's ... not really an either/or case

>>62208699
When he looks in the mirror, he reminds himself that he's doing it for social justice. It's all that he needs to keep going.

>>62207517
Where's my Hitler cake?

>>62208558
>Roll20 could, as I said, point in a random direction and find an identical collection of nerds they could use instead.
except it wasn't 5 random white guys, it was 5 white guys with an established audience. the whole point of marketing is exposing your product to pools of potential customers.
and it's not like they were asking to be spokespersons. they were asking for sponsorship for games on their own channels, which is mostly invisible to whatever portion of your customer base that demands diversity.

>>62208593
I mean, you care enough to be reading the thread.

>>62208699
He's just showing his love for neapolitan icecream.

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>>62208712
The hero we need.

>>62208699
Maybe he gets off to humiliating himself?

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>>62208558
the dude in the video looks pretty normal to me, and hes decently articulate and easy to listen to.
he has already stated that he and the top 5 vlogers on youtube were going to do that project.
i think that every point you are making is in direct contravention of the evidence being presented.
i think that the only possible way for someone to be in such a reality disconnected position is for them to be ideologically motivated.
such an ideology could be, for example, racism.

>>62208558
I would argue that having a good product sells and that it's not diversity doing it. I mean, BBC's Troy was "diverse" and it bombed, but by your logic, the interracial threesome should've won them gangbusters, right?

>>62208802
I mean two relatively recent insanely huge film successes were both examples of shamelessly pandering to a given race. Everyone is afraid to do it with white people though

>>62208837
So? They were still "good" products (as good as whatever passes for blockbusters nowdays). Just cause kikes in hollywood inject minorities into everything and panders to the lowest common denominator doesn't mean that diversity always sells.

>>62208837
>Everyone is afraid to do it with white people though
isn't that the default? how do you explicitly pander to white people?

>>62208615
>I think you are wrong.
That's nice. Thing is, I do this stuff for a living. So I'm not just floating ideas out there, I'm showing you just a little bit of how the sausage gets made.

>You can market to them and market to another audience at the same time.
You only get one brand. So picking who you associate with is important. If you're just starting out, throwing brand deals at literally anyone makes sense - you're just trying to get your name out there and establish yourself. Six years ago, if Roll20 was handing out premium memberships to anyone with an audience (which it seems like they were), that'd make sense.

But we're past the point where roll20 needs to establish its brand. Roll20 is established. Your core audience is already aware of the product, and a bunch of them are probably even advertising your product for free, without you being involved.

So now it becomes a question of brand maintenance. I'd liken this to hedge keeping. Your name is out there. So now you're trying to make sure that your product looks good. So this means being more selective at who you partner with. This means you'll want to get people on board who are marketable - which means either relative unknowns who hit the right boxes (young, attractive and charismatic), or established influencers.

The guy who's doing the whining is a nobody. So with no clout of his own, and not fitting the right boxes of marketable traits, why WOULD roll20 sponsor his content? He won't help grow the brand, or make it look good. He'll only reinforce a negative perception: D&D is played by fat, ugly white nerds And this isn't something roll20 wants to remind people.

>>62208837

Eh, Gods of Egypt already existed. so eh.

>>62208872
How do you explicitly pander to anyone?

>>62205358
roll20 mods & devs being retarded as usual. They think anything that doesn't suck them off is "abuse" so I welcome the day when someone makes a VTT at least as functional (not a hard bar to jump).

>>62208893
The kinda rebuttal only American whites really make.

>>62208488
Not until he finishes Strongholds and Followers

>>62208837
not really, black panther did well because disney's entire media empire shilled the fuck out of it. (remember, that walt disney company controls like 30% of all media in the USA).
if you calculate the oppurtunity cost of all that shilling, the movie's success is greatly reduced.
also, movies and tv are a dying industry

>>62205803
They can do whatever they like. We can say whatever WE like about it. Just like you can say retarded horseshit like this, and I can call you an autistic moron. Freedom of action is not freedom from consequence.

>>62208896
MapTools have all the same functionality, just with a Linux-tier interface and require some actual skills to get running and therefore also kinda encourage you to pirate shit, which most of us here are probably okay with

>>62207867
Even when considering that such broadcoasting groups are a dime a dozen and Roll20 is free to do promo partnerships as they please, there's like a million more diplomatic ways to decline than complaining about white guys.

>>62208916

$140 million in marketing for $1.3 Billion Gross.

That's between 10% and 20% of the total, and actually less than the $200 million budget for production itself.

But sure, think that it did badly.

>>62208916
I highly doubt that you have the means to prove that. There were some shady things like a bunch of news articles about taking classrooms to it, and it being in some theaters for an absurdly long time, but I wouldn't trust anyone who claims to have that sort of information that isn't Disney (and it's not like they'd share). If you mean theaters and broadcast television I agree with you that they're dying to newer mediums, but that's completely unrelated to this anyway, though you could argue that early adapters have caused demographic shifts that cause movies like Black Panther to be more popular than they would have been 10 years ago

>>62208980
you think that the paid marketing is all that disney did? they sent that movie to every single network and talk show they own.
wow, youre bad at your job

>>62208874
>So now it becomes a question of brand maintenance.
for a PR team that just fumbled every single hurdle of disaster control, I doubt they're capable of thinking that far ahead.

>>62208640
The HRC campaign is actually so laughably bad if you know what you're talking about in terms of marketing.

First, let's start with that ugly logo. It's uninspiring. It tells you nothing about Hillary Clinton except her name starts with H. And maybe that she's pushing the democratic party to the right, but that's just sticking with the Clinton brand so whatever.

But the Clinton campaign's biggest failure (outside of that Hillary Clinton is an unlikable charisma-vacuum) is that they failed to do the most basic thing you need to do in marketing: Promise someone the world.

The bitch ran on "vote for me because I've got the longest resume" and "the other guy is so bad you guys" but whenever they were given the easiest set ups to make themselves actually likable, they just completely missed. Seriously, her campaign was so incompetent that they could strike out playing tee-ball.

They tried to copy the Obama playbook without the two most important parts: Barrack Obama's charisma and his suggestions that he would actually give his voters things they wanted (free college, healthcare, more work.) The fact that he failed to deliver on these things is irrelevant - you only need to promise that you're super going to do it this time guy.

>>62209004
Oh yeah, whoever they have in charge of crisis management (assuming they even have someone) is doing a dogshit job.

>>62209003
>hard numbers don't matter when talking about money

>>62209030
>strawman

>>62209003

I both neither know the value of such promotion, nor if it is included in the calculations.

I know for a fact you don't, as you would have posted a value instead of just bullshiting something believable

>>62209003

...Disney does that with basically every movie. A new guardians of the galaxy? That's turning up everywhere. A movie where the Rock sings? Yep, that's everywhere too.

>>62206229
It's not just that, it's just a critical mass kind of thing. roll20's mods are banhappy idiots and the devs require a blowjob and swallow before they'll even consider listening to critique. Basic shit like macros are half-broken and have been for years.

>>62209038
>pointedly talking about money
>anon drops released numbers
>another anon starts propping up conspiracy theories
>somehow, numbers don't matter

Just a reminder that 5etools team made the betteR20 script that allows you to use pretty much all of the premium functions of Roll20 for free and some more, including importing all the paid 5e content into your campaign automatically.
https://5etools.com/roll20.html

>>62207325
>It's legal to be racist
Depends on what color you are, and the country you live in.

>>62208718
>and it's not like they were asking to be spokespersons. they were asking for sponsorship for games on their own channels
>they <weren't> asking to be spokesmen
>they were asking for a sponsorship
You're dumb as fuck. I just want you to know that. Since you're a 4chan user, I'll just use one of the food analogies you fatasses love so much.
"It's not like they wanted to be served food. They just wanted them to give them burgers."
Do you get it?

>>62208792
>the dude in the video looks pretty normal to me, and hes decently articulate and easy to listen to.
Most audiences will click off of his video within the first minute. That "decent articulation" and "easy to listen to" is actually just him not being very good at youtube. You want to have an energy, and a certain speed to things. Both of these are things he lacks.

But more over
>the dude in the video looks normal to me
He looks like he plays dungeons and dragons. If you asked someone to picture "dude who plays dungeons and dragons", this is the guy they'd come up with. Maybe he's a bit more clean shaven, MAYBE.

>i think that every point you are making is in direct contravention of the evidence being presented.
This is because you have a clear lack of expertise in how the machines of marketing actually work.

Also, "top 5 vloggers." All the names he rattled off were nobodies, just like him. These people have nothing to gain from sponsoring nobodies.

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>>62207325
>It's legal to be racist, too
in yank land yeah
but otherwise offensive communication acts and hatespeech laws fuck around wit that

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What happened to merit based marketing rather than race based?

>>62208874
you're giving roll20 way too much credit. they got into this mess because of what's apparently a pretty long history of mod abuse and passive aggressive customer support. the guy in charge of PR, and also one of the co-founders is a self proclaimed "reformed internet abuser" and apparently thinks it's worth his time to police the sub reddit and ban people critical of the platform. I doubt he has the capacity to do any real marketing work

>>62209228
Jesus, who is this ugly fuck?

>>62209238
>Implying merit based marketing was ever a thing.
It's always been about the visuals. Marketing is 100% optics.

>>62209238
"Merit based marketing" is something that only really makes sense for athletes, and even then it's debatable. Everything else is just "whatever works" marketing

>>62209242
You're right. I know exactly fuck all about how roll20 is run and I've been assuming basic competence out of them. Or, at the very least, they hired a consultant who understood how things worked.

>>62209243
A man imprisoned for teaching a pug to sieg heil.

>>62209238
>merit based marketing

What now? Marketing is the entire job of making things about emotions more than logic. Even if that emotion is 'I feel smart for picking this'.

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>>62209269
The "whatever works" seems to alienating their core base.

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What did Matt Mean by this?

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>>62208874
Get woke, go broke.
You are wrong. They are just going to split their core by telling them they are not worthy. Good luck with that.

>>62209210
>Do you get it?
you throw a lot of marketing terminology around, but it doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about
mcdonalds can sponsor a radio station by running ads on it, but that doesn't mean that the radio station is now the public face of mcdonalds.
these guys were just asking to use roll20 on their youtube channel and maybe spend five seconds talking about how great it is. they aren't going on roll20's channel and representing them.

>>62209269
Merit alone doesn't move merch.

Let's take the most boring sport in the world, golf. Who's the only golfer you know? It's Tiger Woods. Why do you know who Tiger Woods is and don't know who Dustin Johnson is - despite that Dustin Johnson is pretty much objectively a better golfer.

It's because Tiger, when he started, had charisma and attitude to him. It's not just that he was a very skilled golfer when he started, it's that he was skilled and he knew how to put on a show. He was able to sell himself as "the cool golfer." This is why Tiger Woods has his own Nike collection. Because more important than being skilled, he made his skill look cool.

>>62205803
Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should.

>>62209210
Then why didn't they say they were nobodies. It was purely ideological decision. It had nothing to do with marketing. You are trying to side step racial prejudice. You are a moron.

>>62208280
>They said they won't sponsor them cause they are white
I thought the phrase was, "we don't need another 5 white guys." If that's the case, then the key word here is "another". As has been mentioned above, it's a matter of market saturation among a demographic.

>>62209210
>Also, "top 5 vloggers." All the names he rattled off were nobodies, just like him. These people have nothing to gain from sponsoring nobodies.
they're pretty high up there when you search dungeons and dragons. and they make up most of the video tutorials, which I presume are correlated with the highest paying demographic of roll20 customers.

>>62209416
No, they never made that argument. You are making something up. They never said anything about marketing being the reason. You are inferring on basically nothing.

>>62209337
>Get woke, go broke
This meme never stops being funny. You guys actually think you getting mad online does anything. It's adorable.

>>62209341
>mcdonalds can sponsor a radio station by running ads on it, but that doesn't mean that the radio station is now the public face of mcdonalds.
So we're going to ignore that there is a differenceo in how you do marketing in old media and new media, and we're just going to pretend they're the same. You literally could not pick a worse example for your stab in the dark.

So McDonalds and other giant companies basically dictate terms when they're advertising. Generally speaking, in the kinds of contracts you'll be getting when a major corporation is involved, they'll be guidelines of things you're not allowed to do - lest it look back for McDonalds. And these tend to get more controlling when you're directly sponsoring. Having an actual brand deal with a major company will often include a bunch of things you must and must not say. This is because McDonalds understand that yes, who they chose to sponsor and advertise with does reflect on them.

>>62209504
>Looks at the marketing nightmare of Star Wars
>Looks at the marketing nightmare that is comic books
I'm the one laughing here.

>>62209563
>Star Wars
Sells regardless
>Comic books
Don't sell regardless

>>62209584
Star wars lost money in the last film. You are wrong.

>>62207647
Not the anon you replied to, but I did find it interesting that there are absolutely no sheets for Tunnels & Trolls despite it being a decently popular niche system. Meanwhile there's sheets for d20 Modern Naruto.
Granted, this is largely because almost all the sheets are community contributed and maintained.

>>62209584
>Look a male dominated hobbie
>Let's market to every other demographic and then call our previous fanbase losers
>Oh shit where did the money go, how could things have gone sooo wrong???

>>62209504
you're conflating brand awareness with brand positioning.
the point was that when you hear a mcdonalds ad on the radio you don't associate it with country music or whatever. it's there purely for brand awareness
if the same way you don't see a product being used in the background of a youtube video as the public image of that product's company.

>>62208733
bear chocolate
face vanilla
hair strawberry?

>>62209584
>>Comic books
>Don't sell regardless
You know there was a very long stretch of time where they didn't depend on movies to keep them alive right? Marvel just ran their comics division into the ground with bad writing.
Also the most recent Star Wars movie didn't make money, and the merch has taken a serious blow as well.

>Everyone mad because someone banned someone else of reddit for something
WHO
THE
FUCK
CARES

>>62209702
>wikipedia source, so grain of salt
Solo has actually managed to break a small profit after all this time
Budget: $275 million
Box Office: $392 million

Still a complete failure.

>>62209712
the 70+ people in this thread.
why do you care that we care?

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>>62209210
>He looks like he plays dungeons and dragons.
>You want to have an energy, and a certain speed to things.
you sound exactly like a soulless brainless marketing guy who wonders why his industry is failing while podcasters like dancarlin and joe rogan and sam harris completely steamroll the media industry.
ill give you a hint: the sub 90 iq people that make up the majority of your target audience (tv watchers and mindless consumers) might respond to your style, but people that arent on the bottom end of the bell curve, are looking for authenticity and depth.
it sounds like you want to get supermodels to start vloging about dnd. that will never work.
it sounds like you want this guy to start sounding like a mindless background noise radio jockey. that wont work either.

>>62209712
See >>62208071
They banned the wrong guy who payed them for their shit service for 5 years and kept the ban on when he proved that he's not the one they're looking for, never apologized for it and told him "he will not be allowed to keep their audience hostage"

>>62209726
Budget usually doesn't include their ad budget, which is often about the cost of production for major releases like a star wars movie. Nobody but disney really knows, but I highly doubt they made money on that

>>62209702
>most recent Star Wars movie didn't make money
You mean local or global? Because in global terms it did well

>>62205803
>Lawful Evil

>>62209765
Good point.

>>62209768
see>>62209765

>>62207596

Hey little sister, what have you done?

>>62207649
I would.

And you should too, tubby. You couldn't have used Olive Garden or something as an example?

>>62205358
Who cares? Pretty sure I've been banned on 4chan before for being Canadian, to say nothing of being mistaken for someone else and then crying about it incessantly. Getting banned is just the natural outcome of posting on reddit.

>>62207869
It means that white dudes already know about the product and 4 more white dudes isn't going to move any more licenses than it would already.

Expanding your demographics expands your customer base which expands your market visibility and eventually market share.

This shit is basic marketing.

>>62209888
You forgot the part where it alienates the current player base and they end up leaving the market.

>>62209765
studios engage in hollywood accounting where they minimize their reported profits for tax reasons. I don't doubt the movie made money, but the figure is still relevant for comparing the success between films which in this case is pathetic for the franchise they're working with.

>>62209745
>Banned some dude from a subreddit
>He is being unjustly censored from talking about a website on another website

Ooh no
What a travesty
Someone rile up all the ecelebs I'm sure their words of wisdom will guide is during this trying time

>>62209914
I hope you won't be running a business of any kind at any moment in your life, anon.
Who am I kidding, high school kids this days won't get to live to their 30s

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>>62209807
Hey little sister, who's your only one?

>>62209904
I'm that playerbase and the most of us didn't even know about this until DFC cried about it on youtube.

Nobody gives a fuck, stop making a mountain out of a molehill.

>>62209669
>and then call our previous fanbase losers

White persecution complex is real, holy shit.

It is absolutely fascinating watching the mental gymnastics SJWs go through to justify racism and segregation as perfectly fine.

>>62210061
If you think that's bad you should see the other ones

Do you guys have to make everything a /pol/ thread? This has nothing to do with race or gender.

>>62210117
It specifically does have something to do with race and gender though.

>>62210144

What?

>>62210244
See >>62207821 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK-H0dDeG38

>>62210244
Did you not read the thread before posting? >>62207196

>>62210061
Have you heard of the website buzzfeed?

>>62210073
Truth

>>62210073
As long as socjus is served, nothing else matters

>>62210061
You don't live in reality do you?

>>62210144
Yeah, age too. It's almost like business partnerships are based around MARKETING and ADVERTISING which is part of CAPITALISM

Hello?

>>62210293
go back

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>>62210073
SJWs are informed by postmodern philosophy, which in turn is directly derived from literal nazi philosophy.
SJWs believe many of the EXACT same things that the nazis believed. they just replace jews with whites/men, and aryans with browns/women

>>62205374
This.

>>62210393

I live in the reality where I as a cis white dude am not oppressed.

What reality do you hail from?

>>62209584
What about video games like battlefield? Another marketing nightmare?

>>62210472
Hi Jordan, how's the new book selling to white supremacists?

>>62210532
You just don't GET IT man.

>>62210463
What are you even trying to say? As a response to someone saying "This has nothing to do with race or gender." I pointed out that it does. Do you think tying some point about race and gender to capitalism has anything to do with what was being talked about? Some canned sarcastic "it's almost like..." doesn't mean anything here

>>62210524
We don't need more white cis males on the internet, please fuck off

>>62210494
My real life group is spread out so we use roll20 for our games, but I’ve only ever used it to play with people I know IRL. I don’t think I’ve ever even looked at their forums or subreddit at all.

>>62208874
>The guy who's doing the whining is a nobody. So with no clout of his own, and not fitting the right boxes of marketable traits
1) Then why didn't they say that as their reasoning rather than "you're white and male"?

2) I think you're completely wrong in thinking it's a good decision. That's a personal opinion but having young diverse charismatic nobodies (or people from outside the hobby that will only make the virtue signalling more obvious) rather than non-diverse people that actually have an audience / give a shit about trpgs.

On top of this, you have to consider what happens if you decline their deal.These are D&D youtubers, their audience is already part of your consumerbase. If you accept, that is very, very likely going to just continue. If you decline, those youtubers who have shared with you that they're looking to partner with a VTT will logically check up on the competition. As he said in the video, they went with FantasyGrounds instead. So now your consumers are being exposed to marketing from influential people in the industry that tells them your competitor is good, while you're busy spreading your brand to normies who don't give a shit and will at best try to imitate Critical Role as a player with no interest int he mechanical aspects of the game. You even seem to admit that their concern is to maintain their brand, not to spread it to new audiences.

3) It is still racist of him to decline their offer based solely on their sex and skin color. Even if we assume it's a great business decision in a vacuum to decline them, public image and consumer goodwill are certainly going to take a hit if it gets out that you are racist and sexist when it comes to partners. If they then partner with anyone that isn't a white male as you say, it's also going to make them a less effective partner because people know that they weren't chosen for their passion for the game or whatever, they were chosen for their skin color and gender.

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>>62210532
where is your argument?
the book i read is this one.
it is filled with arguments

Fun Fact that Has Nothing To Do With This Issue:

Roll20's Community Manager, turned Twitch Content manager, who is a friend of mine (don't ask, it's a long story), literally has the directive to produce Twitch content with no white people unless they're cross-dressers.

No, I'm not making that up. That's literally their directive.

>>62210596
>Nietzsche
>Fascism

>>62210616
Creating outrage only over "a friend of an anonymous poster on 4chan" is just pointless. If you had any proof and if it was any way related to /tg/ I might feel differently

>>62210616
>No, I'm not making that up.
I have this feeling you're making it up.

>>62210626
yep, still waiting for your argument.
the book btw is published by Princeton university press and written by a proffessor of philosophy and history.
it details the evolution of counter enlightenment philosophy from monarchism to nazism to postmodernism.

>>62210556
Marketing relies on a thing called demographics.

Demographics include things like:
>Age
>Sex
>Race
>Income
>Region

So yes, business sponsorships, aka advertising, has everything to do with gender and race, and a multitude of other factors. That's literally how marketing something works.

Because the /tg/ markets are saturated with white dudes of all ages, companies need to turn else where to expand their customer base.

Everyone who plays D&D (read: mostly white dudes until *just* recently) already knows what roll20 is.

They turned down DWC because there's no upside, they're only getting eyes that already know about roll20. It's a good marketing decision bungled by an idiot with shitty PR skills.

The ideological angle is just horseshit to anyone who knows how to think critically.

>>62210616
That's slightly closer to saying "we're hiring black actors only because the characters are all black". It makes perfect sense that Twitch does that and they're trash SJWs and all that but it's a slightly different thing than declining someone from a position where gender and race do not matter for their role, because of their gender and race. That's like not hiring people of a certain race for a random job anyone can do.

>>62210664
Do you know who Roll20's CM is? Because if you did, you'd understand how it's pretty possible people know them, and it's pretty easy to look and see what content they're producing right now.

But yeah, sure. I'm lying. There is no conspiracy. Everything is fine.

>>62210685
>The ideological angle is just horseshit to anyone who knows how to think critically.
Will you still defend Marvel and Star Wars if you're that same dude? That idealogical angle is definitely a factor for a lot of modern media failures so assuming it's at play here isn't too far fetched. For the record, the creator also said that people should report anyone that forbids women from playing in their games and he would ban them from Roll20, while women that forbid men from playing in their games are treated quite differently. It's pretty fucking clear he has an agenda, even if you can find some justification for why it might be a good business decision in some cases.

>>62210290

But the roll20 drama today has nothing to do with race or gender

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>>62210524
I never said anyone was "oppressed" I said that marketing team ridicule their core fan base. Which they do.

>>62210704
yes, you are. Because the only evidence you have is the roll20 equivalent of "my dad works at Nintendo."

>>62210704
>>62210671
>>62210664
>>62210616
Honestly, it's pretty easy to prove or disprove. Here's their channel on twitch:
https://www.twitch.tv/roll20app/videos
Huh. Seems that anon's at least right about
>no white people unless they're cross-dressers
bit. Go figure.

>>62210685
None of that shit has anything to do with the post that was replied to >>62210144.
>>62210704
So show a name of the person who's friends with him, a quote in a text log, or chat room or some shit. Just saying "This guy is a SJW it's so bad guise" doesn't mean anything and makes any complaints look like a joke. Call it out when there's actual credibility involved like what people are bitching about in this thread

>>62210743
That's the thing, no. I think EA, Disney et al are definitely pandering, but I don't see the same case here for roll20 based on a single phrase to a tabletop youtuber.

>>62210748
The bit with a guy being banned on reddit doesn't.
The bit where a bunch of 100k+ subs youtubers being denied sponsorship because they're 'another white males' does. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK-H0dDeG38

>>62210753
This whole board is a ridicule of the fucking fanbase, you tard.

Grow some nuts.

>>62210768
They still need white male DMs it would seem.

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>>62210812
I'm saying it it bad as a marketing decision you fucking retard.

>>62210817
Koebel most certainly doesn't count as 'white'. He's a faggot-parrot.

>>62210765
>tfw your dad actually did work at Nintendo of America and no one ever believed you
He was just some office schlub, didn’t even have anything to do with product design or development.

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>>62205534
yes, I know that first hand and I am glad there is an option.

I have been waiting for an alternative to roll20 for so long

>>62205591
>different people use /tg/? NO ONLY ME, MAKE ALL THREADS ONLY FOR ME
fuck off fag, I didn't even know about the shitstorm until I saw this

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>>62208558
this fucking post, man.
>your consumer should fit your criteria, or the money they gave you is no good

>>62210787

My entire point is why we shouldn't be turning this into a /pol/ thread.

Yes, you can point to "race and gender" because all of marketing is based around age race and gender. Demographics are a very real thing.

The reply was in the context of a sponsorship or other advertising offer from a youtuber, we can assume they did a basic cost-benefit and decided nah, doesn't suit our target demographic, we need new, hip customers.

Now then spice in the corporate liberal bonus points for-- ironically enough considering the reddit meltdown "good PR."

Way more plausible and simple than an emotion fueled social justice crusade.

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>>62210790
>based on a single phrase to a tabletop youtuber
As I said, this isn't the only relevant event. They are either pandering to SJWs or are SJWs themselves, the difference isn't particularly notable.

>>62207196
But reddit mods are always just paid or employees of whatever game/website/product they are about.
How does that surprise anyone at this point?

>>62211388
>But reddit mods are always just paid or employees of whatever game/website/product they are about.
They are very rarely that, publicly at least. It's against site rules to pay people to mod and it's adviced that someone in the company shouldn't be a mod for their sub.

>>62208245
False, you -shouldn't-, but this is not enforced as a rule. It's like the flag code, exists but not enforced.

>>62206229

If you had said this like 3 years ago, I might have been inclined to say it's arguably good

but now that the token/art search is crap because r20 refuses to pay google for a better API search system, and that it's taken them four fucking years to do fog of war, and 5 years to do fucking a scaling ruler, I'm inclined not to agree.

Only reason I am with r20 is because the dynamic lighting AND the fog of war, that and it was initially free

>>62208302
> false flag

classic fascists