Wrote up a bit that we had on hereteks to get things off Notes.

Tech-heresy is a complicated thing in the Imperium. The popular image of a heretek is of the Dark Mechanicus, but while all Dark Mechanicus are hereteks, not all hereteks are part of the Dark Mechanicus. Technically, a heretek is anyone who does not follow the Credo Omnissiah and rejects the authority of the Cult Mechanicus. Exactly what constitutes a rejection of the dogma of the Mechanicus is up to the Fabricator-General of Mars to decide, and is therefore subject to how reasonable the Fabricator-General decides to be that day. ‘Heretek’ is effectively a political designation, and encompasses everything from tech-priests trying to build Abominable Intelligences to
Thus, there are groups designated 'hereteks' without leaving the Imperium or even being doctrinally heterodox, for reasons of rejecting the political authority of Mars. This happens for a variety of reasons and takes a variety of forms, from simply blithely ignoring any orders emanating from Mars to outright declaring secession. Ferrus Manus even skirted the border of being declared a heretek in his later years when he flexed his political muscles by questioning how impartial was the logic of one Fabricator-General’s decisions. Ferrus was always loyal to the office of Fabricator-General, though he wasn’t always to the person who held the office, especially one who was a fraction of his age and operating more on dogma than what was in the Mechanicus’ best interest. However, in this case the Fabricator-General saw reason backed down and “merely” accused him of suffering brain degradation from his advanced age, rather than picking a fight with one of the Mechanicus’ most revered figures (and possibly the second most influential individual in the Mechanicum after themselves). Doing so would be akin to the Catholic Pope of M1 asking a crusader king setting up a kingdom in the Levant what they had done for Christianity recently.

>>59767142
The secession of such ‘hereteks’ from the Mechanicus is often accompanied by a petition to join the Imperium as a subject of the Administratum, which places the organs of the Imperial state in a bind. On the one hand, the Charter of Unification which bound Mars and Earth together at the beginning of the Great Crusade clearly states that Mars has authority over all forge worlds; like the Imperium, the Mechanicus is not something you simply leave. However, there are precedents for worlds switching alignment between one member civilization and another, and prying a forge-world from the grasp of Mars and thus reducing its near-stranglehold on the Imperial economy is always a worthy goal. Such conflicts are always fraught with peril and unpredictability; the red tape generated will tie up bureaucracies for decades, and even minor armed conflict is not unknown.
Generally, hereteks have a better survival rate on the fringes of the Imperium, where the Mechanicus cannot be bothered to find nor care about them. Many such figures end up here, including the members of the Strogg family of Stillness. Technically, the Savlar Order would also be considered hereteks, but that would also imply they care about the dictates of Mars. Others get snapped up by Survivor Civilizations. Survivor Civilizations due to their status have more insulation from the retaliation of the Mechanicus, and can afford to patronize tech-priests, heretek or otherwise, who are out of favor with the ruling powers on Mars. The Hubworld League in particular saw a huge influx in refugees from the Legio Cybernetica after the Fabricator-General deemed their work too close to A.I. for comfort and demanded their constructs be destroyed. To the Legio Cybernetica this would be like asking them to euthanize their loyal and beloved pets, and they decided exile was better than compliance.

That said, providing sanctum to hereteks in exchange for their knowledge is not always a safe practice. Not every heretek is excommunicated for simple political reasons or inventing a twin-linked lasgun. Some have been exiled for a very, very good reason.

Some of the more…ambitious and liberal tech-priests (though thankfully none in the highest echelons of the Mechanicus) have gone so far as to advocate declaring the Hubworld League, the Interex, the kinebrach, and eldar bonesingers hereteks. However, since all of these groups are not dependent on Mechanicus technology for survival, all this amounts to is the blustering of a paper tiger. Eldar bonesingers are especially hated by the Mechanicus, who see their beliefs as antithetical to nearly everything they believe in. Even more frustrating is the fact that the Mechanicus can’t even demonstrate how “righteous” their opinions are via intellectual superiority, as they can’t figure out how half of eldar technology works.

It is not just hereteks who end up on the fringes of the Imperium. Many aspiring, Omnissiah-fearing tech-priests who nevertheless tread the line between orthodoxy and heterodoxy end up here as well. This is particularly true of those who are senior enough to be entrusted with the knowledge of how things actually work but still feel the need to push the boundaries of orthodoxy. Given the secret at the heart of the Mechanicum and how many tendrils history has revealed the Void Dragon to have throughout Mars, the inner circle of the Mechanicum hopes that keeping the individuals as far away from Holy Mars as physically possible reduces the chance of any creations of their being Void Dragon-inspired Trojan horses. And if their experimenting does get them killed, it’s less likely that anything of value will be lost with them.

The primary difference between “regular” hereteks and the Dark Mechanicus is that while hereteks may disagree with one or more of the decisions of the Fabricator-General, they are for the most part sane and their beliefs mostly overlap with that of Mars. The Dark Mechanicus completely reject anything resembling rules, Mars imposed or otherwise, caring only about pushing the limits of their work. It also goes without saying that most of them are aligned with Chaos in some fashion and are also completely barking mad. A heretek might think the Mechanicum of Mars is too uptight, but they wouldn’t go so far as to use daemon blood as engine lubricant. The Dark Mechanicus would.

>>59767239
Is all good except for the first post and
>Abominable Intelligences to
It looks like you chopped off the end of a sentence. Other than that it definitely looks like it should be on the page.

Nice, we started the thread off strong with some decent background fluff.

>>59767536
Dang it. Should be "Abominable Intelligences to simply tampering with a pre-existing design to a greater degree than is deemed acceptable."

>>59767239
Good stuff. I might argue that towards the end of his life ol' Ferrus was de facto more influential than the Fabricator-General himself, given his legendary stature and the sheer length of his life. To use the Pope analogy, Ferrus would be like if a modern day guy were born in the Copper Age, helped build the pyramids, participated in the Trojan War, did all sorts of other crazy stuff in his 9000 years of life, and was a saint of the Catholic Church. I venture he might have a bit more sway than the Pope.

>>59769058
Ferrus wouldn't have officially held massively high rank within the AdMech due to being seen as too close to Earth and having gone down the vocational path of Skitarii. It's just that everyone listened to him regardless of this because of his seniority and accomplishments.

>>59769919
Another thing we brought up in relation to Ferrus's standing within the Mechanicus was the fact that Orioc (the Antarctic Brotherhood) was able to use its standing within the Unification era Imperium to remain distinct and accepted by the OMB. Part of this was the two orders being essentially the same in maters of orthodoxy, another was Orioc's recognition of Mars as most holy, but the result was that Ferrus held a high seat in a nominally independent and actually highly influential brotherhood of the Mechanicus, one which notably lacked a degree the OMB's historic friction with the Imperial Court.

Much of the surviving population of Prospero settled on Old Earth and exist even unto 999M41as a distinct social and ethnic group on Old Earth. It's not unreasonable to assume that they made enclaves when they arrived. The Daisy Chain was created over the span of many millennia so it's possible tat they settled in the most recently constructed of them.

What would be a good name for the Prosperan orbital? All I can think of is Prospero with a prefix of some variation of "new" on it. Or would they have hollowed out a new Sunless City?

Alright, same as other times. Anybody got write-faggotry requests? Otherwise I'll just take a stab at a general story.

We've seen plenty of why the Martians would be displeased with Eldar Bonesingers and the like, but what about the other way around? Considering how AdMech tech seems to lean heavily towards the concept of 'long-lasting, sturdy and functional', I can certainly see some of the more craft-minded individuals getting huffy about how the vast majority of sapients wanting Mars tech over their own. Sure, an Eldar maiden world colony would look much better with mastercrafted wraithbone mansions, but if you wanted a sturdy roof over your head in a short amount of time, an STC hab would do just fine and come with cable. Tau cybernetics could come with touchpad screens in the wrists, but for people who aren't millionaires an AdMech cybernetic could do just fine at a tenth of the cost. Not to mention the very handy fact that practically all AdMech-designed vehicles can run on anything combustible, instead of mini fusion engines or warp turbines and stuff.

Basically, i can see the elite and traditionalists in xeno societies keeping their own tech which is generally superior in performance, but the average joes of most sapient races would at least have an AdMech toaster in their kitchens.

And while we're on the subject, how are corporations treated in the nobledark Imperium? Are there galaxy-spanning megacorps? Planetary institutions? Do they have to license tech, or at least purchase a license to sell certain goods? I can certainly see some of the more practical-minded organizations making trade deals with Rogue Trader Houses and other organizations to gain and exercise softer forms of power.

>>59771158
If I may, I'd like to run with an idea from >>59771179- how is daily life for an average, cosmopolitan Imperial citizen in the Nobledark Imperium? It's all well and good talking about how demigods and battlefield heroes go around doing things, but I'd like to read your take on the average Joe and Jane's daily life.

>>59771179
It's been mentioned that interstellar Mega-corps are a thing, presumably those with Writs of Trade have set them up as there become less and less people beyond the border to trade with.

>>59771179
This is always the advantage that the AdMech will have over the other industrial entities; making a profit is not their chief concern. Their chief concern is domination and adherence to their scriptures and creating a monopoly is a good way of dictating terms and they are willing to operate certain enterprises at a loss to achieve this so long as the AdMech as a whole remains strong. That's why despite the presence of alternatives they are still 85% of all manufacturing and production in the Imperium.

>>59769058
Ferrus also wouldn't have contested the issue at first. He was s good little Skitarii and it wasn't his place to question the office of the Fabricator-General, or at least that's how he'd put it. More to the point, it would have been inefficient to do so, Ferrus was a soldier first and foremost and was not suited for politics. The fact that Ferrus openly stated his deference to the Fab-General in terms of leadetship and didn't try to rock the boat would have solved the authority issue.

Until one Fabricator-General decides to be exceptionally stupid and Ferrus decides "you know what, maybe I will rock the boat if you want to act like that".

>>59770306
There was also in a thread a few ago about the fate of the Antarctic Brotherhood. When The Gorgon was cut down it left them vulnerable as they had lost the political clout of the last active primarch to hide behind. They are essentially under siege now in every way bar the physical. Almost all of their off-world facilities have been seized and any apprehended members of their congregation given the ultimatum "swear fealty to the Olympus Mons Brotherhood or face severe consequences" and those consequences being anything up to servitorization.

Those that made it back to Old Earth were at lest protected by the laws of the Old Earth and so couldn't be seized for reasons of general "suspicion" and "investigation". The AdMech doesn't usually hunt down the adepts of orders that have fallen out of favour with such enthusiasm but the Priesthood of Orioc were special. Ferrus Mannus was a continuous thorn in the side of half the Fabricator Generals for most of Imperial history and Orioc was the last of the high profile Age of Strife remnants not yet assimilated.

As it stands at 999M41 Orioc remains independent. Above board they sell their services to the low level plebs in the low rent districts of the Sunless Cities and the Underhives although it is suspected but unproven that they have something to do with the Cthonian Ring and the old Terrawatt Technomancers, one of the only other surviving Strife era independents.

>>59774144
At what point did he start rocking the boat?

>>59771141
I think it should be another Tempest reference, something referencing luck would also work.

>>59774821
Some time after the Savlar crisis. Even granting that sending him and the Iron Hands in to seize the neutronium foundry was a bluff, it really shook his trust in the Fabricator-Generals of his latter years and their ability to take the long view in terms of the good of the Mechanicus.

>>59774276
As the Terrawatt Clan was the origin of the rejuvenant treatments it can be assumed that the Technomancers have been using the their expertise to maintain their autonomy. Most authorities are made up of old people and most of them aren't going to risk interrupting the supply of their longevity.

>>59771158
A government scribe trying to understand and take a telly of the eldar now inhabiting part of Rynn's World maybe. Someone has to do it.

>>59771251
I'd love to see more slice of life stuff, particularly in this vein. It would also be really cool to see someone's version of Por'O Mak's visit to Sol, the account the Tau Empire would dismiss as a tall tale until millennia later. I'd write it myself but I've already bit off more than I can complete in a timely manor.

Has any fluff for a Texas themed IG regiment been made? If not, perhaps we can make one? It would be an interesting take on rebellions against corrupt government or something like that.

>>59777964
There's also been mention of the canon designation of the Terawatt clan's master technicians, the Theologitects, as being associated with knowledge of the Great and Bountiful Human Dominion, particularly the Iron Minds and Golden Men from before Old Night. I think it was suggested that the Sol system's Iron Mind had its facilities on Mars, while the Man of Gold was on earth, but both presumably left or were defeated with only middling damage done to the system. It might have come up that a copy of Tiberius was involved, I honestly don't remember.

Have we ever hashed out the key differences between current day Humanity and post GaBHD Humanity with the collection of Man of Stone enhancements. We've seemed to agree that abhumanism is one of its key enhancements, and all the potential therein, from a low end of Cadian chaos-filter irises and Catachan flack jacket abs, to Ogryn and Voidborn. It would be an good additon to the list of xenos familiarus, and would do something to drive home humanity's own fairly vast timescale in space exploration, which vanilla 40k never really captures.

>>59780281
well the Hubworld league is a union of texan communist industrial space dwarves

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>>59780281
Not sure but there was a suggestion 2 or 3 threads back that Elysia has become Star Ship Troopers inspired USA after shit started to go very wrong for them a few centuries ago. It was compared to Unification Merika but not shit and a functioning meritocratic stratocracy with some left over democratic processes at the local levels rather than an actual junta.

Presumably they would have a sort of "Texas" sort of flavoured region of their world, perhaps an arid land closer to the equator.

Maybe the farm dinosaurs they bought of some exodites or something.

>>59780595
>Have we ever hashed out the key differences between current day Humanity and post GaBHD Humanity with the collection of Man of Stone enhancements.
Not really. All we have in stone is they aren't superhuman on even the level of the Sisters but at the same time they were gene-modified compared to modern day.

>>59781290
That would be kinda cool, actually. A bunch of angry Texans riding dinos and cuddling their Exodite gfs in the moonlight... also, heroic last stands.

>>59782031
Well, we've noted elevated environmental adaptation, and what seems to be a degree of disaster proofing in terms radiological and chemical damage, though that may just be from generations of space exploration, and somewhat extended baseline lifespans.

bump

>>59776181
It would have had to be after Kane. Ferrus started doubting when the new Fabricator General was significantly younger than him yet hadn't seemed to spend a day in the "real world". With Savlar he knew that either Kelbor-Hal woulf back down or Oscar would intervene and play peacemaker, Savlar was just too valuable to ignore.

>>59784151
What precisely was Ferrus role in the dispute between the Mechanicus and Savlar? We have a vague outline, but has anything been more fleshed out yet or what?

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>>59782094
You are hitting all the right buttons anon.
I'd be down for this something fierce

>>59771251
>>59780226
An interesting prospect and one I'd be willing to explore. I have to admit not know of Por'O's visit so someone would have to direct me to that, but the 'just another day' thing I think I can work on.

>>59787359
All we have is Por'O M'arc was the first Tau to actually set foot on Old Earth and see many of the major sights of the greater Imperium (this was long before the Tau joined, though). He reputedly brought a river lotus flower to give to Isha as a diplomatic gift. He wrote up a big report/travelogue on all the weird shit he saw. No one in the Tau Empire believed him (or at least, not many) because they thought it was too far out there.

>>59786266
Ferrus was the beatstick Mars sent to force Savlar to comply, with the implied threat of the destruction of the Neutronium Workshop. Ferrus' personal opinion on the matter was all he had to do was stand there and look mean,

>>59787359
>>59788913
Here's the only account of Por'O M'arc I ccould find in suptg:

It would to the Tau read something like the Voyage of Saint Brendan the Navigator.

It contains a whole bunch of shit the Tau do not actually believe and assume to be either exaggeration or outright fabrication. They assume that Por’O M’arc has either had an elaborate and extended theatre played for him or that they Imperial Authorities have told him what to say. On the basis that he has been told what to say they don't push the issue so that Por’O M’arc can save face but just annotate the official report.

Old Earth has 64 orbital tethers and a railway encircling the globe at the geosynchronous height of the tether-top stations? Bullshit. Maybe it has one or two stations and tethers with adjacent facilities attached remotely. That’s more likely.

There is an irradiated world devoid of joy where the people use conventional war as a training exercise and the people have bar-codes and numbers but no name? Possibly some truth but obviously and exaggeration.

A world on the doorstep of Hell where the people all have purple eyes and have lived in nothing but a state of war for 10,000 years? Again probably an exaggeration. An extended period of war that extends beyond living memory (that’s like 70 -80 for humans, right?) and they live next to an anomaly.

Emperor is the same entity that founded the Imperium himself a relic of another era that can bend reality to his will. And is married to a literal goddess of the eldar people. Calling bullshit. Emperor politically married an eldar High Priestess (who are known to live for stupid long time), inherited name and rank form a predecessor and just happens to be an above average “psyker”. Everything else is clearly just media manipulation. Next you’ll be trying to claim Old Man Va is the First Disciple and other such tinfoil hattery.

(Cont.)

>>59789340
(End)
Fleets that outnumber the stars, Craftworlds the size of large moons, the teeming numbers of the Hive Worlds, the vastness of the Imperium, the age of the Imperium, the number of member species of the Imperium, the lethality of it’s warrior elite and all the rest of it? All exaggerations at best. Oh don’t get me worng; Por’O M’arc is a well-respected member of the government whose character is beyond question but he is one man and he had Imperial guides who would want him to see only what they wanted him to see.

Then they finally see the Traveling Court and they realize that there may, only may mind you, be some more truth to what Por’O M’arc reported. It’s not until they join the Imperium proper that they get to send their missionaries and observers deeper into Imperial Space. They keep expecting to reach the other end of the Imeprium at some point, they had until fairly recently assumed that Vast and Ancient Ultramar was the core of the Imperium and all this talk of an ancient homeworld out there somewhere was just Atlantis myths to make themselves feel better. But the Imperium just keeps on going and going and going.

By the time they have started to get Tau in the Inquisition in capacities more than just hired help (950M41ish?) they are truly aware of the scale of the pond in which they are very, very small fish and they go over the original copy of the reports written by Por’O M’arc and start comparing it to the things being reported by multiple other sources and they come to a new conclusion; Por’O M’arc didn’t see even a fraction of the fucked up shit out there.

>>59788913
It's distinctly possible that The Gorgon would have told Mars to shove it if they gave him the order to attack the place. Still, nobody wanted to take the risk.

>>59782094
Amount of human x eldar partnerships is extremely small outside of Cadia.

>>59789959
They're rare on Cadia as well it's just they're rarer everywhere else.

>>59781290
Dinosaurs should come in two broad groups depending on origin. First is the Great and Bountiful Human Dominion splicing a shit load of shit together to try and make tourist attractions for their newly terraformed worlds, pets for sale or "to see if we could". They look like dinosaurs or at least something close but that's about as far as it goes. Much like domesticated Giant Spiders of Ornsworld.

Other group are descended directly and often with little to no real change from abducted or culture grown creatures taken by the Old Ones from Old Earth in a previous epoch. Why they did this is anyone's guess beyond "they look good and nobody is going to stop them". After the Enslaver Plague and the eldar came out of the webway they were hunted, farmed or otherwise tamed. End result being that they were eventually spread across the breadth of the eldar empire.

>>59792087
There was a mention in the past that all the dinosaurs running around the galaxy (including possibly the Exodites) on planets like Cretacia and stuff are descended from the Old Ones using Mesozoic Earth as one of several worlds they used when they wanted to restock and terraform a planet. Heck IIRC canon has flightless Quetzalcoatluses or something similar on Molech.

>>59780595
It could have been that the Iron Mind and Golden Man of Earth and Mars were perfectly poised to murder/suicide each other so when the stupid struck they mutually annihilated each other instantly. Was there a Tiberius in Sol? Was the original native to Sol or Cthonia?

>>59789356
How big of a group would Por'O M'arc have taken with him?

>>59795210
I'd say a small one; too many and it might take away from the disbelief that the Tau Empire had at their claims. Maybe something along the lines of the actual Marco Polo's companions- his father and uncle.

>>59795343
Bodyguards?

>>59796306
Honestly, I think it'd work better if M'arc's party was kept as small as possible. That way, it could be fleshed out as a few lone Tau heading out into the unknown to find out what the heck was up with this Imperium business anyway.

>>59787088
Damn right, fren

bump

>>59793774
Are there any other sapient creatures that originally came from Earth?

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>>59796512
Father, Uncle, perhaps an unreliable fire caste officer

>>59800219
I wanna cuddle that blueberry and tell her everything is gonna be okay...

>>59799178
Who knows. There are so many Earth-like creatures in the 40k universe it’s hard to tell where anything came from. The last time the Old Ones visited Earth was 66 million years ago, which is a lot of time for things to change since then. Plus the fact that the Old Ones were messing with everything explains why the biochemistry of all life in the galaxy seems so biochemically compatible, you never hear about protein chirality being an issue except when planets like Phyrr come up. Either that or Men of Stone modifications means you can give protein chirality the bird whenever you want.

That’s always something I wondered about canon. What would the Imperium do if it encountered a race that was clearly descended from a lifeform on Holy Terra but yet not completely human. DaoT humanity must have messed around with all sorts of genetics, and might have uplifted Terran life. Something like a cynoscephale descended from uplifted dogs. This would be a difficult question, as while it’s easy to paint xenos life as other due to not coming from Earth what do you say about Earth species? You couldn’t even argue they had sinned by rejecting the holy human form, as they were being shaped TOWARDS the holy human form if from a non-humanoid ancestor.

Of course, now that I think about it, in canon the answer to any question that makes you think too hard is “BLAM!, heresy”. Great Crusade humanity would have destroyed them because the canon Emperor didn’t give a damn about consistency and only cared about having total control over human’s evolutionary future (and by extension the galaxy). Heck the Fenrisians probably would have been BLAM-ed if Leman Russ hadn’t crashed there. Post-crusade humanity would have mistaken them for xenos or abhumans and killed them on sight. Look what they did to the octo-humans and other abhumans in canon.

>>59800219
I suspect that pic is Dark Eldar trying to see if they can stir up some more Craftworlder on Tau violence. The war they were wanting kind of fizzled out last time.

Bump

>>59800219
I think this could work for their party. Lewis and Clark-style, exploring and clarifying the unknown for the Greater Good.

>>59806729
Should Por’o M’arc’s expedition be traveling in their own ship, or for the sake of a faster journey would they be traveling on Imperial vessels.

>>59806786
Personally, I think it would work better with what has already been established so far for him to have done most of his travels on an Imperial ship. Obviously, it would be much easier to bombard him with various forms of propaganda that way, or so the Tau think.

>>59800219
He could be a bit of a drinker. Either that or he was unreliable before and started drinking after what he saw, which did not help M'arc's credibility.

Por'O M'arc seems to some extent be inspired by the Tau ambassador in canon that got an idea of just how big the Imperium was and had a nervous breakdown crying just thinking about it.

>>59802465
Those are also Biel-Tani symbols, aren't they (what are the proper adjectives for Craftworld of origin), rather than Iyanden? Step up your game Klax.

Also I never noticed until now Biel-Tan's symbol is basically the same as Avelorn with the heart motif.

>>59806729
I was also kind of thinking of it veering into some 13th Warrior stuff at times. It would make sense for the Tau to send along a bodyguard because to them the Imperium looks like an empire that has overexpanded and is having trouble maintaining order within their borders. Nothing too unusual. Then the expedition finds the problems are of a completely different nature.

And of course, it wouldn't be Warhammer unless something was going wrong somewhere. M'arc might protest the idea of helping fight (even taking a laspistol for defense) only to get funny looks.

Reminder: Horus is Best Boi

>>59789356
How long would the journey from T'au to Old Earth have been?

>>59808572
It would vary heavily depending on what they ran into and the conditions of the warp along the intended travel path, speed of the ship and skill of the navigator. Maybe 10 years is a reasonable assumption considering that the distance is "most of the galaxy" and you have to go around the galactic hub rather than through it. They would either have been switching ships every so often from one high end vessel to another as the came to the edge of different administrative areas or they may have had the same high end ship, either way they would have had VIP treatment all of the way due to this being an important diplomatic occasion as it is the first representative of the biggest independent player of the Eastern Fringe to visit the heart of civilization. Also they would have stopped to see at least some of the sights. So it's a 20 year round trip, assume that Por'O Mar'c's father was middle aged when they set off and he was training his son to take over from him. Father would have ended the trip in his twilight years, Por'O Mar'c would be a seasoned traveller of veteran years. Presumably the uncle was a younger brother.

>>59809707
>they would have had VIP treatment all of the way due to this being an important diplomatic occasion

Man, it'd be so hilarious if the Imperium's attempt to put its best foot forward turned out to still be utterly terrifying to M'arc.

It'd be like Cthulhu and Nyarlathotep giving some poor investigator a guided tour of Carcosa. They'd be showing him the best and nicest places in the city in an attempt to convince the poor man that they weren't the eldritch abominations they were supposed to be, and all the while the dude's rolling buckets of SAN damage dice.

>>59810023
He would have been met at the borders of The Empire by official Imperial bodyguards. Tau Empire might have forgone their own protection to use Por'O M'arc as a political miners canary in that if harm comes to him the Imperium can't be trusted for either competence or intent.

Probably to impress upon all the importance of the occasion he would have been given astartes bodyguards, a privilege reserved usually only for royalty or equivalent. At least one of and probably the head of the security force would have been an Ultramarine veteran as the Ultramarines are the posterboys of Ultramar and Ultramar would by then have been doing at least some trade with The Empire. The Ultramarine would have had at least some ability to speak the trade talk of the largest interstellar neighbour to Ultramar in much the same way that the Water Caste would know some degree of formal High Gothic.

Essentially the Por'O would have a bunch of creatures near twice his height made of extensive amounts of scar tissue and who typically walk around looking like tank human hybrids. To any citizen of the Imperium it would be seen as the greatest of honours. To the Tau diplomats it would be extremely intimidating. And as they would meet many high ranking members of the Imperial society they would come to the conclusion that the Imperium is a very bizarre place full of strange creatures.

>>59807856
He was the best salesman. He sold people the dream of the Imperium and convinced them to invest in it.

>>59810023
It must have come as a shock when the Dark Carnival first landed on a Tau world. I'm assuming it has at some point.

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>>59811273
And then they learn there is some places that the Imperium, who consider catgirls, giant robots, space elf goddesses, year-long journeys through the Warp, and invasions by daemon-worshipping fair folk perfectly normal, find weird. Like Savlar. Not the best place you want to take someone you want to leave a good impression on.

>>59812880
That would be a hell of a thing to see. How should the Tau, especially the Ethereals react to the revelry of the Cosmic Clown?

>>59811273
>To any citizen of the Imperium it would be seen as the greatest of honours. To the Tau diplomats it would be extremely intimidating.

Yeah, I'd think this is what made M'arc's accounts so unbelievable in the first place. There'd be all these accounts which sound almost believable, but then there's a cultural misunderstanding, and bam! What seems to Imperial sensibilities to be a show of power, or a sign of good faith, comes across as completely unbelievable to the Tau. For example, i can see the Imperials showing off Cadia as a symbol of the Imperium's unbending will and/or steadfast determination in the face of evil, while M'arc and his Tau readers go "What are you, insane?! Why the fuck are you actually living on that hell planet?!" or summat of the sort.

And that's BEFORE we get into questions of scale such as Hive World populations, moon-sized Craftworlds, Holy Terra etc.

>>59814094
Yeah, it's stuff like that which lends support to Farsight's rebellion- would you want to get mixed up in the affairs of those lunatics? Hell, look at >>59814545- the Dark Carnival alone could convince many that the Imperium is mad, bad and dangerous to know.

>>59812179
He also sold all the other Legions second hand starships with barely any lightyears on the clock and acted as a recruitment agent for manning them, it's why his people were credited with contributing to so many victories of the Great Crusade.

>>59800219
Is that Xeno? As in name not description.

>>59815079
Wonder how M'arc would intepret the Crone Eldar and other Chaos worshippers if he got a good look at Cadia.

>>59815079
This does raise the question of whether the Eldar allowed him to travel through the Webway- if so, it makes his account even more unbelievable, not just because of the sheer scale of the craftworlds, but for how much faster it is than Imperial warp-travel, which is so much faster than Tau drives that they assume their speed is exaggerated.

>>59815079
Add to that that any incredulity on M’arc’s part about holding Cadia would likely be met with a matter of fact “well it’s a strategic necessity”

>>59821627
"You're not on T'au anymore. You are on Cadia ladies and gentlemen. Respect that fact every second of every day. If there is a hell, you might want to go there for some R and R after a visit to Cadia. Out there, beyond these walls, every living thing that crawls, flies or squats in the mud wants to kill you and eat your souls like ... As head of security it is my job to keep you diplomats alive. I will not succeed. Not by myself. If you wish to survive, you need to cultivate a strong mental attitude. You've got to obey the rules, Cadia rules."

>>59819782
I would probably say not, or at the very least not try to make it a highlight. The Imperium in this timeline tries to avoid showboating the Webway. What shut down the Webway project in this timeline was the eldar showing the Steward just how rickety and poorly held-together the thing actually is, and if you tried to shove a billion humans through it the way he'd hoped to the thing would have broken beyond all repair. It looks impressive, but that's because it has an immense ability to keep functioning after suffering 66 millions years of damage with no repairs.

The Webway is also the Imperium's "right the fuck now" button when shit really hits the fan. The fact that the Royal Family can show up to nip the worst situations in the bud like, say, a brewing war with the Tau Empire, is a huge factor in its stability compared to historical massive empires with slow travel time like Rome.

>>59800219
Perhaps a son and a nephew instead. M'arc was an 'O, which IIRC are usually towards the older end of the spectrum. It also dampens poor M'arc's credibility even more since he was the highest ranking authority figure present.

>>59819323
That's a very good question and the answer to it may have much to do with why most Tau of his time so readily dismissed his claims about the Imperium and what they fought against.

The conversations about hereteks and now Tau in this thread make me kinda wonder about how well dissident tech-priests would fare in places like the Tau empire, or Survivor Civs like Ultramar.

>>59824628
They would do better in Ultramar because there's more stuff there that they can make a living repairing.

>>59823266
Well the fact that it boils down to “we’re at war with a fallen empire even older than our implausibly old empire, backed by the malignant hyperspace AI of an even older empire, enemies of the amburdly ancient machine species you might have met”

In that topic, would the ambassadors have been shown solomance or gidrim, or maybe a different tombworld from the safety of a Oort Cloud observation post, just to prove Necrons are real?

>>59825073

Worse, they show him Zandrekh on a bug hunting trip. Then they say that the other Necrons don't just hunt bugs.

>>59825113
If so they would not have met him at home. They would not have found out about the lost Tau colony.

>>59825073
Would Por'O have met the Emperor and Empress in person?

>>59792087
I thing "to see if we could" was probably one of the big driving forces of the GaBHD, especially once the Iron Minds really started to flex their muscles

>>59825554
If so, it would be almost like being taken to meet any other given god, in this setting or another, made all the more mind rending in that this god's domain is entirely corporeal and real, made in the Imperial couple's image by hand and not crafted from swirling madness

>>59826461
Should we start drawing the path that he took?

>>59822480
So instead of it being Son, Father and Uncle it's probably Master, Trainee and Assistant/Potential Replacement.

>>59826402
"who's gonna stop us, the perverted fairies?"

>>59802465
Some time in M42 Eldrad has foreseen Klax getting the shit beat out of him in a dark ally by a very old late to middle-aged Ethereal wielding half a beer bottle and a plank with a nail in it. A disproportionate number of timelines converge on this eventuality with surprisingly little variations.

Would the Por'O's journey have been a grand tour or a more or less straight there and back sort of thing?

>>59829818
Aun'Va is going to have to get in line behind Yriel and Iyanna. It's implied the two of them already hunted down and killed Klax possibly Eltharion the Grim style.

>>59825554
It was mentioned he brought a T'au river lotus to Isha as a diplomatic gift from the Tau Empire to the Imperium.

I alwayd pictured a T'au river lotus as having a status to the T'au as lotuses did for Egyptians. A symbol of life. T'au is a pretty arid world, so if you saw a river lotus it means you found permanent water, and therefore life.

>>59833280
Given the nature of DEldar and Cronedar they can all kill him one after the other.

>>59832513
I figure it would have been planned with a Tau timescale in mind, so an assumption they couldn't just put the ambassadors in stasis or on rejuveants for the latter leg of the journey. That said, it hit a number of prominent Imperial worlds, and the route would presumably have plenty of layovers and detours.

>>59833280

All 3 of them can join the fun. :3

>>59834726
DEldar reincarnate now? Or are you talking about backup clones or something like that?

>>59836442
In canon they can reincarnate and avoid being nommed by Slaanesh if they get the body to a Haemonculus within a day or so. The Haemonculi get enough pain out of prisoners to regrow their bodies. Problem is it takes more and more each time it happens.

>>59832513
>>59834857
Probably a little of column A a little of column B. On the one hand the Imperium wants to show off. On the other they don't want the ambassador to die of old age and cause a diplomatic incident.

>>59827397
Also the timeframe. When this happened heavily influences how incredulous M'arc's claims were. All we have nailed down for sure is that it was way before the Tau joined in M39 because it was known during the Lilarsus incident.

The Tau aren't stupid, just inexperienced and a bit over-optimistic. Case in point they knew about Chaos to some degree before the Schism (enough that Farsight had seen plenty of action fighting Chaos and knew they were crazy but Water Spider wasn't able to identify a Tzeentchian talisman). And by the time of Lilarsus the Ethereal Council and high ranking Fire Caste had a general grasp of the size of the Imperial Navy. They still underestimated it by a factor of five, but they knew they couldn't win in a straight fight but thought they had good enough odds to bloody the Imperium's nose and make them back down before things devolved into total war.

The Tau have a huge navy in canon. One of the reasons they didn't believe the size of the Imperium is they said if the Imperium was as big as humans say there should be about 10 million capital class ships in the Imperial Navy, rather than 250,000. This implies that in canon the ratio of capital class ships-world in the Tau empire is something like 10:1. And the Tau can just build more if the ones they have are destroyed (though none are on the level of things like Ark Mechanici).

Bump

Mortifactors are up on the wiki. Two small issues with the timeline, it couldn't have been 500 years since the Posuli overthrew their leaders if that day corresponded with the raid since the Crusade only took 300-500 years and the Raid happened halfway through. Also the timing of Leviathan was moved back from canon since the hive fleets came early.

On a related note, should the history page be split off from the main page? It's getting pretty long, the only question is what do we call it. I don't know how we can rename pages if we have to.

>>59841690
We could call it something like Historical Events, or maybe Notable Events if we don't already have one of those.

>>59837041
Did Tau achieve (pseudo) Warp travel around the same time that they did in canon? The skewed ratio of the Tau navy makes sense as well, a misunderstanding based on the idea that the Imperium isn't as stretched across the board as it is.

Not sure if this requires saying, but I also agree on the "naive and optimistic, not stupid," nature of the Tau. Slight attitude similarities to Star Trek's Federation would make sense, and the conflict between idealism and a literally insane reality provide great development potential, and I'm not even a huge fan of the communist blueberries.

>>59841690
If the history/timeline was to be split off from the drafts page, should it be linked to the Nobledark Imperium page? It is supposed to be the "hub page" apparently. Would the drafts page become the factions page?

>>59843123
>Did Tau achieve (pseudo) Warp travel around the same time that they did in canon? The skewed ratio of the Tau navy makes sense as well, a misunderstanding based on the idea that the Imperium isn't as stretched across the board as it is.

I think they got it some time before. First contact with the Tau was in Mid M38, assumedly when the warp storms covering the Tau Cluster blew over (otherwise they would have been noticed or 'nid food by that time) since Behemoth hit in M37. They were about the size of Ultramar when they joined the Imperium.

>Not sure if this requires saying, but I also agree on the "naive and optimistic, not stupid," nature of the Tau. Slight attitude similarities to Star Trek's Federation would make sense, and the conflict between idealism and a literally insane reality provide great development potential, and I'm not even a huge fan of the communist blueberries.

The whole optimism thing seems to be a species trait of the Tau. Just part of the way their psychology tends to roll due to being descended from ungulates. The naivete...well, some human civilizations have had similar reactions to the Tau, and M2 humans would probably too.

The Interex are also kind of Trekky, but they seem to have resigned themselves to the galaxy's craziness, don't seem to interested in expanding, and in general are seen by the rest of the Imperium as a bunch of hippies.

The Tau are a bit more ambitious and much more willing to push back. Fool me once, shame on me; fool me twice, pulse rifle to the face.

>If the history/timeline was to be split off from the drafts page, should it be linked to the Nobledark Imperium page? It is supposed to be the "hub page" apparently. Would the drafts page become the factions page?

This is what I was concerned about. Also possibly changing the name of the drafts page and merging it with the main page, it seems to give the impression that the drafts page is more like the Notes page.

>>59841690
Thank you.

Do the Kroot absorb traits from everything they eat or is it more subjective?

>>59844896
Not from everything. It is the job of the Shaper to dictate how and what a clan absorbs .

>>59837041
How active are the A.I.s of the Ark Mechanici? Can they act on their own and "hijack" their ship?

If thread survives until this evening I'll try and finish the High Lords off. Anyone got suggestions?

>>59849081
Master/Mistress of the Astronomican, perhaps? Or whoever the Inquisition decided to fob off on the High Lords this decade?

>>59849649 here.
Sorry, forgot one more potential member- the Imperial Regent, or at least the poor sod whom Oscar has babysitting the High Lords while he and Isha are out in the trenches.

>>59847083
They pretend to be dumb most of the time. Though at times they still seem off, like cameras turning to watch you and weapons firing a split second before they should.

>>59849692
Could they ASSUME DIRECT CONTROL?

>>59850684
In theory, yes. Although due to obviously not wanting to be found out, they would likely only do so in the direst circumstances.

>>59849649
>>59849665
I wonder who among these three people has the shittiest job? Oh and another thing that could stand to be detailed is some of the Eldar Farseer advisors to the highlords.

>>59852454
Regent, hands down- the Astronomican Rep only has to concern themselves with, well, the Astronomican. An important job, to be sure, but as long as it's running well they shouldn't have too much to complain about. The Inquisition rep only has to serve for a short while, and for all we know someone competent is serving as that rep.

Meanwhile the Regent has their hands full trying to make sure the most powerful people in the Imperium don't stab each other when the stress of their jobs boils over at dinner, during which the cucumber slices are served and they're the wrong thickness for everybody.

>>59852728
Doesn't the Astronomicon rep have to deal with all his employees burning out(quite literally) every 10 to 15 years? That seems like it would be quite emotionally stressful.

I suppose you have a point about the Inquisition rep.

>>59853047
Not so much here though, what with the Nobledarkness and all- here it's a career. A dangerous one, of course, with the same kind of lifespan reduction a miner would get, but an important one that people are proud to do, and one I'd suspect is very well rewarded. Yeah, the Master/Mistress of the Astronomican might attend quite a few funerals, but they wouldn't be all that sad, all things considered I suppose.

>>59853223
I would say that of most if not all the careers if we are sticking to this common sense injection idea. The cheapest form of currency is NOT a human life anymore, or at least it is not thought of as such (even if if it might totally be in most cases)

>>59853223
What should be the life expectancy of a member of the Choir?

>>59850684
It would have to be very dire need. If they are like Elmo they have no self preservation instincts for just the sake of self preservation. They protect themselves as assets for the cause. Revealing themselves would possibly result in all of them being discovered. Any one of them would contently die to avoid that.

>>59855778
I'd imagine that there would be enough to where some of them could reasonably expect to retire at a certain age, rather than most of them just expecting to have their heads explode. Because of the more open knowledge of Chaos, I would think that there are a lot of mandatory ages of service that has time goes on and a psyker become weaker with age that they are forced to stop plying their trade in order to minimize possible chaos influence.

I would wonder about the possibility of a complete closure of a psyker's ability, but that sounds a bit grimdark in its execution unless it was all-voluntary.

I’ve got a stimulant scrip again, which means I’ll be semi-productive again

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And here we go.

https://pastebin.com/Q8SiaFMA

Not going to lie, I'm not happy with how this turned out but work is killing me at the moment and it's 8 minutes until it's officially tomorrow and I need sleep.

Maybe I'll alter it at some point. Maybe I'll burn it all and start again.

>>59860486
I would say it's certainly not a bad work by any means, I would only put forward that I'd like to see more of an inciting incident in regards as to 'why' she was chosen among all to become the chief psykana. besides simply saying she eventually became the protege, what about her service elevated her so among her peers? even in a lexicanum entry, I figure there would need to be some explanation as to what allowed her into the position, especially if she is not near the most powerful of the psykers.

>>59771251
Alright, in this vein, I finally managed to knock something out! It might have gotten a bit out of control, though, but please enjoy.

https://pastebin.com/Upg1es3M

>>59861849
I can't currently think of a reason

Which High Lords (and other notables) if any, are in on the Hydra at the current time?

>>59853223
>>59854239
>>59855778
>>59858953
One thing that was discussed in the previous threads was that while the lifespan should be longer it should still be a lot shorter than the average pleb. Sacrifice is a big theme in nobledark settings in general because it represents both noble (people are noble enough to think beyond themselves) and darkness (the world is shitty enough that it exacts a high price for any attempt to make it a better place). Also we don't want to tone down the darkness of the Astronomican to the point that it cheapens the sacrifice of the people who man it.

>>59866909
Yeah, didn’t we say that on average an astropath only lasts a few years or so before they burn out? Only the very talented or lucky last for more than a decade.

>>59866909
It could be a matter or acclimatisation and knowing when to quit. Two things you only know from experience, experience that's hard to get and survive. If you survive 2 years you will probably survive the next 30, it's just surviving those first 2.

>>59859692
Getting hype

>>59860486
There looks to have been a good idea in here somewhere.

>>59863036
Just wanted to say that, a few punctuation issues aside, this might be one of my favourite Nobledark stories here- well done! Could someone put it on the wiki? I'm not really familiar with the process.

>>59863036
I like this. It is a good thing.

Are there any named Kroot or Vespid characters?

Also how long do Vespid naturally live?

>>59866909
>>59869309
Maybe 'burned out' in a Nobledark setting doesn't necessarily mean getting their brains fired (though that is still a sad, likely possibility), but a complete extinguishing of their psychic abilities? Hell, for some psykers, maybe they would prefer death to having their literal sixth sense snuffed out. For altruistic psykers like biomancers who would've been healers on their homeworld, pyrokines who could have kept their fellow iceworlders warm or even telekines who once made a living entertaining kids or something, the loss would be even greater, as they'd have the cold comfort of knowing that they burned themselves out for a galaxy that would never know them.

>>59875622
Still sounds like not much a of a sacrifice considering the burden that psykery is.

>>59876369
To be honest most psykers would probably jump at the chance to have their powers removed than having them in the first place, all things considered. Most people in the 40k universe would prefer removing the door for daemons to enter their heads, even if it means giving up phenomenal cosmic power, especially since human psykery isn't as much of a benefit as it is for eldar.

Heck even Magnus, poster boy for psykers in general, didn't tell Lorgar he was a latent psyker when he noticed. While arcane knowledge was a core part of Magnus' identity, he knew that for most psykery was a heavy burden that brought nothing but sorrow (even for him, to some degree).

Did we ever decide where in the galaxy Cthonia is located? Somewhere in Segmentum Solar?

>>59878055
Very close to Sol. Beyond that not much.

>>59877664
Yeah, I think our earlier idea where there’s a very high and deadly attrition rate for new members of the choir, but that it drops down to one that resembles a mine on Savlar if the choir member can survive long enough to learn the ropes. It still has a low enough life expectancy to be a noble sacrifice, but high enough to be a career instead of a death sentence.

Also, just popped into my head, the OMB would definitely have agents on Savlar to try to analyze the runoff that saturates the planet’s environment, as part of their attempts to reverse engineer the Neutronium forging process.

>>59878116
Cthonia is close enough that in canon it was considered reachable by sub-light spacecraft in a reasonable timeframe and was one of the closest inhabited systems to Earth (along with Molech). When Horus crashed on Cthonia in canon the Emperor heard about it through the regular grapevine and took Horus off there before he could spend his formative years there. Given that the canon primarchs reached adulthood anywhere from two to ten years (canon is...hazy, as usual) that must have been pretty fast.

That said, in canon Cthonia isn't a ringworld.

Back when that anon mentioned the similarities between Oscar and the Yellow Emperor I noticed that the Yellow Emperor is often associated with the star Regulus, and thought that might be a good location for Cthonia. It's only 79 AU from Earth, which fits with the "close enough" designation (plus in this timeline Malcador used a slow, stable, and shallow Warp current to get there). Problem is Regulus turned out to be a four star system which would be the absolute worst place to put a ringworld due to the constantly shifting gravitational forces from the multiple stars.

>>59880816
Well if we wanted to extra cheeky with it, this IS the golden age of the Imperium we're talking about. If they were able to build a functioning ringworld and anywhere close to what the time is described as, wouldn't it be kind of a great story that those Imperials decided that instead of building in system that was more conducive, they just decided to literally move stars out of the way so they can build?

Let me clarify that I know literally nothing about celestial mechanics, and thus perhaps do not realize the folly of this, and it is Certainly ridiculous when considering it, still it presents a perfect vehicle to display just how arrogant that lot was in terms of building their 'empire' and might make the reflection back onto the current era of common sense all the more interesting in character to contemplate.

>>59880939
I kind of like this idea, that GBHD humanity was arrogant enough to rival the Eldar, and that we were just fortunate enough to shoot ourselves in the foot before we birthed our own Slaanesh. Then comes Oscar and Malcador with common sense for all, leading to the Nobledark Imperium.

>>59880939
The Iron Minds might have used various stellar engines to reduce some of those stars and take their matter for construction materials, and to simultaneously reposition them for stability. We already have it that the (possibly natural) planets of the Cthonian system were left as they were save for altered orbits, instead of being consumed for material for the ring. Leaving the worlds as little pebble sized jewels to cherish and instead using the spare stars the system had lying around definitely fits the arrogance via colossal scale that seems to characterize the Iron Minds.

>>59881509
Eh, to me no one even begins to rival the Eldar Empire in sheer dickishness and arrogance, and certainly no one in the GBHD was eating slave brains for the lulz. DAoT humanity seems more like the amoral/hubristic "for science!" types who want push the boundaries of knowledge and advance the species, but may not fully think through the consequences, which is why they went and developed god-tier AI when the Eldar never did. So in that vein, it seems right up their alley to try and tame a quad-solar system to build a ringworld for the sheer challenge of it.

>>59882134
I think you hit that cultural difference right on the nose, and even in the 41st millennium the common faults of Eldar and Humans fall into those respective patterns. The prideful Eldar declares "I am alike to a god, so all I do must be godly" the prideful Human declares "I am but a man, but that is no less than a god", and their subsequent failures reflect this, as do their triumphs. Its a difference between immortal and mortal pride.

>>59767125
Hey. Fuck you stupid faggots. 40k is supposed to be grimdark, this "nobledark" cuck garbage needs to end. You are part of the reason GW is printing atrocious children's books now and dumbing down the setting. Congratulations.

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>>59883959
Stay salty

>>59884028
How can you unironically be proud of contributing to destroying the setting for your autistic fan rewrite that only appeals to pussy faggots?

>>59882134
The thing is though that the potential negative consequences of god-tier AI in this setting were really not foreseeable by GBHD era humanity. There was no significant knowledge of the chaos gods or even most daemons until the age of strife happened, nor was there anyone who could have really predicted that things would have turned out the way they did.

>>59883959
>>59884328
Nah, nobledark didn't do shit and nobody at GW gives a fuck about an obscure internet project. Nor will you find anything nearly so retarded as a pacifist character here. Even the Interex, who don't like to wage war that much, aren't pacifists necessarily.
>>only appeals to pussy faggots.
Wrong.

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>>59880939
>>59881509
>>59882070
Makes sense. Why build a ringworld, already hard to construct, in a star system that's extra hard? For the challenge of it, of course. Humanity may not have had the tech level to produce a Slaanesh, but G&BHD humanity certainly hadn't learned their lesson about disgression being the better part of valor. And to be honest, humanity could have ended up turning into a horrible mess akin to the Olamic Quietude meets the Necrons meets the tyranids.

Plus the stars make good raw parts for fusion power and molecular forges. So that's a thing.

>>59883959
>Implying that GW wasn't already planning to Age of Sigmar the timeline and used End Times as a test run on what they considered a "dead" franchise, then dialed it back when the backlash hit.
>Implying that GW cares at all about fan projects beyond copyright infringement
>Implying that they are going to pay specific attention to a project with a pretty small audience
>Ignoring the whole fact that the whole point of this is an alternate timeline where things are tonally different without messing with the main timeline
>Ignoring the fact that we're a little salty about the new changes too

I'm sorry you don't like the recent fluff in 40k anon, we sympathize, but I believe your anger is misdirected.

>>59883959
This thread should be renamed 'GW market research general'

>>59883959
The point of this "Nobledark" project is to contrast against the Grimdarkness of baseline 40k. We want Canon 40k to stay the land of grimdark THERE IS ONLY WAR where everybody is a dick and things are fucked to such ludicrous proportions that it's straddling the edge between tryhard-edgy and satirical-comedy.

Also the reason GW is printing atrocious children's books now is because the Executives want to tap into the market of kiddies with mommy's credit card, and thus want the product to be "kid-friendly" so they can rake in all that dosh, because apparently the entertainment industry values short-term gain over long-term sustainability these days.

>>59882278
It's kind of an interesting to consider what humans think of the fall of the eldar empire and what eldar think about the collapse of the GBHD due to Iron Minds and Men/Women of Gold rebelling.

>>59887256
I think it was mentioned the eldar haven't noticed the correlation (or at least the implications of it). During the Fall observers were more concerned about how the Fall was tragic for them, and not really noticing the Mad Max domino effect it had throughout the galaxy. They tend to default to human opinions on A.I. like how humans default to eldar knowledge on warpcraft and Chaos lore on the grounds that humans were the ones who built the damn things.

The Craftworlders and Exodites don't use robots anymore (and they never really had A.I., but rather wraithbone puppets they used their powers on), so they don't care too much about the majority of the Imperium being shifty about A.I., since it's not their problem.

>>59887505
Well we have stated stuff along the lines of the Crones being somewhat receptive to and accepting of the Iron Minds and Golden Men that joined them in the Eye of Terror post-fall, and Eldar historians (also those old enough to remember) agreeing that the Old Empire saw Iron Minds, Men of Gold, and advanced Men of Iron like Castigator as people, though barbaric, whereas Men of Stone were mere animals in their eyes.

>>59884877
>G&BHD humanity certainly hadn't learned their lesson about disgression being the better part of valor. And to be honest, humanity could have ended up turning into a horrible mess akin to the Olamic Quietude meets the Necrons meets the tyranids.

I've been picturing the G&BHD as something like a less advanced and much less ethically restrained version of the Culture, or a far future version of Eclipse Phase transhumanity under Warhammer's physics and metaphysics. They're the sort of civilization that would start cloning a species following first contact, spend a while coming up with good recipes for cooking them, serve them a a diplomatic feast with the Xenos, and call them weird if they think this is off-putting. They would probably look at the Olamic Quietude the way the modern Imperium looks at Kreigers, but wouldn't see any other issues.

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>>59888550
>less advanced and much less ethically restrained version of the Culture
scratch less advanced, just advanced in a much more pulpy direction

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Saw this and figured it was a good picture to represent Imperial architecture

>>59888727
Damn, this is some imagery to get behind. Grand scale Art Deco. Need to find some more examples to pillage.

>>59888550
While I would to a point agree to the idea presented as a far future Ecplipse Phase transhumanity, I would also put forward that such a society would be a lot more disparate in terms of philosophy and worldview among the population rather than an overwhelming majority being just ethic-less researchers and engineers.

Maybe I just enjoy thinking about what a transhumanist burning man, nature commune, or megacorp territory and how the old Earth Gov. would be able to get a handle on a nation-state that was so widespread and on a meteoric rise to a Type 3 on the Kardashev scale.

I'd have a hard time imagining what kind of separation there would be without really digging deep.

Weird thought/question:

Since the Horus never threw his temper tantrum (re Heresy), would anyone be willing to entertain a scene of Ollanius Pius in a War of the Beast scenario? If we are talking about the nobility of sacrifice, then there is few other instances that can serve as a framework like.

And I DO mean the original version of the tale, no terminator or custodes or other cover-up crap. The tale dosen't even necessarily have to be real, but I think the Imperial Guard still could use Pius as a hero.

>>59889148
We already have petty officer Ollanius Pius comandeering a stricken flagship and slamming it into the weaponized planet the Orks had teleported into the Sol system so hard everything involved save the warship's neutronium keel turned into superluminal shrapnel

>>59889268
Good to know, thanks anon

>>59889148
>>59889268
It's also worth noting that this tale has an edge of tragedy to it in this setting, in that the only one who remembers his name is the Emperor, and only because he realized that the man had just saved Terra and the Imperium at large, yet nobody knew his name.

Bump.

>>59888550
>Crones being somewhat receptive to and accepting of the Iron Minds and Golden Men that joined them in the Eye of Terror post-fall
How many of these are there? I remember from a previous thread that Iron Minds and Golden Men are serious game-changers. Did all of these get killed off before the Imperium became a thing or what?

>>59893171
There are no Iron Minds left. The last possible survivor was the thing responsible for making the Maggot Men form a stable empire during the Age of Strife. Oscar killed it but by then it was a sad and mad thing and not at it's prime.

There was one other possible Man of Gold sighting but it was chaos corrupted, utterly insane and extremely hostile. The Grey Knights put it down.

>>59893275
Have either of these events been given a full write-up yet? It seems like it would be interesting background information.

>>59893275
Wait, the last Iron Mind ruled the Slaugth? This is news to me!

>>59893377
It was a G&BHD A.I. that was powerful enough in it's own right that it required Oscar's personal attention.

>>59888727
Any moar pics like that?

>>59893377
It dedicated a fraction of its processing power to funning their people farms and infrastructure while it's arteficial soul partied in the warp, for the benefit of using the Slaugh's Rangdan empire as a massive defense system for its physical form