>>59020817

Bad copy paste, OP.

>>59020826
Don't be too harsh on him, the last thread got fucked over by the April 1st Easter shenanigans. Anyway, last time there was discussion about the whole farsight enclave situation. I.E what led to them splitting off and the precise nature of the internal conflict in question, also there was some discussion on Farsight's motivations for leaving and the nature of rivalry between him and Commander Shadowsun.

There was also some talk about neutronium and possible sources for it other then Savlar and how a given group of PCs might make use of Neutronium they found.

>>59021357
In a very previous thread it was mentioned that the AdMech aren't entirely convinced that it is strictly speaking neutronium, all that they know is that it's weird and probably not baryonic matter and that the stuff that the Cthonian Ring is made of is distinct from the stuff Savlar makes and that is salvaged from the GaBHD orbital tethers.

But they don't know why it is different, they don't know what it is if it is not neutronium and the only people who could shed light on the subject are the Savlar Brotherhood. But that bridge is long since burned and Savlar sees no reason to hold out the hand of forgiveness.

Old GaBHD neutronium can be found wherever they had an orbital tether, pieces of the skeletons of the larger of their old ships and occasionally large ground structure supports (some still in use in this capacity).

Others have found out how to work neutronium after it's been constructed, Fulgrim or at least people in his employ were the first as part of his dick measuring contest with The Gorgon, but the process is expensive, intensive and time consuming.

>>59021568
Do we need a specific entry for Neutronium?

Also top job picking up the ball OP.

>>59021686
Possibly a sub-entry attached to Savlar.

>>59021357
Farsight was pining for the hardline Greatergood he grew up with, the traditional Tau values uncorrupted by exposure to the Imperium.

>>59020817

So what was Dorn's last stand like? Did it contain a copious amount of MANLY TEARS!!! and HOT-BLOODED DETERMINATION!!!

>>59022660
On the walls of Cadia back when they had cities on the surface. His last words were chewing out a rookie who was trying to save him for abandoning his post.

Presumably the city endured that assault but over time migrated underground.

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>>59020817
Where's the guy who's going to finish up Fulgrim's backstory? Did he get eaten by grues or something?

>>59021357
Shadowsun and Farsight were not lovers. They were close though.

>>59022617
Add to this that the relaxation of the Laws of Da are bringing the Greater Good to something more like how it was in the days of Da. Farsight grew up in a period of relative puritanical strictness and assumed it had always been so.

I don't have anything to contribute, but I do want to drop by and say that I appreciate this work and think it does a service to both the real and fake canons by providing a counterpoint.

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>>59023396
I think it was said they may have had an awkward friend-zone "spending a lot of time around an attractive co-worker of the appropriate sex" relationship, at least on Shadowsun's side. However, feelings do not dictate who you get to mate with in the Tau'va (even though canon says Tau are like humans in this respect, it's just social engineering). Tau "marriages" are non-sexual things more like the Japanese concept of nakama more than anything else.

Of course, that went completely out the window when Farsight in one way or another ended up causing people to break one of the most sacred commandments of the Tau'va: no Tau on Tau violence. Now any closeness they had is replaced by bitterness on Shadowsun's part.

>>59023346
I'm still here, working on the Blade of Laer bit

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>>59024658
A lot of trolls have complained that this project perverts 40k, etc. I would argue that it provides a supplement, not only contrasting with the grimdark of canon but actually making many things in canon more grimdark by comparison. Case in point, the way the canon Emperor handled Ursh and the unification is implied in nobledark to NOT be out of any selflessness on his part, but out of selfishness so humanity would be so broken no one would be coherent enough to challenge his will. If that meant destroying most of Earth's remaining historical archives and archaeotech so be it.

Plus, it's basically 40k with WHFB thougjt processes, keeping the vastness of the galaxy and the tinyness of an individual and culture without making one feel like being interested in how the world works is a fool's hope. Grimdark when written well is also very good, the recent Carrion Throne book is said to be a good example of that.

>>59023396
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Nobledark_Imperium_Notes#Shas.27O_Shadowsun
>>Probably had some sort of forbidden feelings for one another, but after that moment their relationship changed to that special feeling of hate and betrayal you can only have for someone you once loved

I would call this a bit more then close, just saying.

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>>59025041
She might have had feelings. He knew his duty and the rules of proprietary. They were at least BFFs and maybe, she hoped, one day something more.

Then his differences in scriptural interpretation and policy reached the point where it couldn't be reconciled with the Ethereal Council.

Then he killed a man for treason without trial. Since the days of Da and the The Eight no sane Tau had ever murdered another and despite what he had done he was still sane.

Shadowsun will kill him. She won't find joy in it but she will because she needs to and she will chase him down the long years against the Thief of Time to catch him. They can be together then, one last time

I'm actually kinda interested to hear how the more mobile armored/mechanized Imperium/Eldar forces work together, the foot slogger stuff seems rather self-explanatory from what I read in the last thread(Imperial Army as line holders while the Eldar Guardians attack those things that the line cannot hold back and destroy on it's own, standard hammer+anvil stuff)but how would this look with the more mobile forces I mentioned above? Furthermore, what about forces like the Elysian Drop Regiments? Do they work with Eldar aspect warriors that would be compatible with their tactics or do just do their own thing without any integration at the regimental level or lower?

>>59025340
I would imagine that armored formations would operate similarly to infantry, with Imperial tanks massed in the center, while Eldar vehicles deploy in screens and on the flanks, acting as skirmishers and outriders. Much the same way as light and heavy brigades functioned during the Crimean War, etc.

So, has there been much discussion on the Interex and how they fit in with the rest of the Imperium? Or just information on them in general, because the info on the wiki for them in this setting is hilariously sparse at present.

>>59025340
Hm, that's actually quite an interesting question. Eldar tanks are equally as tough as Imperial tanks due to wraithbone construction and absurdly mobile, as the Lexicanum says the main battle tank of the Eldar, the Falcon, can reach speeds of 800 kph and has limited flight capabilities. So on top of their normal armor role, Eldar tanks could actually have a secondary role of providing close air support if the bombers and fighters of the Navy aren't available.

Off the top of my head, any doctrine around Eldar tanks would probably aim to exploit their huge mobility advantage over the armor of any enemy species, so strategically they could be used in an uber-Blitzkrieg, being able to exploit even small breakthroughs in the enemy lines thanks to their mobility and firepower. In canon, Elysian drop regiments are sometimes overrun by opposing forces because the main Imperial forces are unable to reach their positions in time a la Market Garden, so the mobility of the Eldar armor would allow to Imperium to quickly reinforce forward positions. Tactically, they would probably excel in skirmishing roles, crushing pockets of unsupported enemy infantry and retreating before enemy armor could arrive, or tank-hunter roles, since they could literally fly circles around enemy armor, as well as providing close air support when the situation demands. Their only real limitations are their rarity and logistical complexity, since I imagine wraithbone and grav engines are a whole lot harder to fix in the field than the systems of a glorified tractor.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not the most knowledgeable on modern tactics, so if any of these assumptions are wrong feel free to let me know.

>>59026281
Interex are like Ultramar in that they were brought in as a Survivor Civilization and so retained a semi-autonomous realm. This required a little legal juggling as they had xeno citizens and at that point the Imperium was a human and eldar only club. Eventually it was decided that the Kinebrach were citizens by proxy. They were citizens of the Interex and the Interex were members of the Imperium and everyone was happy. So happy in fact that the Kinebrach's most celebrated metal worker presented a deamon-slayer blade to The Steward as part of the joining ceremony.

Steward Oscar then gave it to Lion as Lion was the best swordsman in the Imperium.

Interex survives into the Dark Millennium. Kinebrach colonies are found across half the Imperium. Kinebrach blades are the pimp swords of the Inquisition.

Beyond that and The Reaper of the Interex little is known. Presumably they keep themselves to themselves in their little fiefdom as is their right. They lend troops out in accordance with The Tithe but the Imperium is indifferent to the notion of open borders.

>>59027319
They've been described (based both on canon and what we've said here) as kind of like ancient Greece+Star Trek+Carl Sagan. Real big into math and music as the universal unifiers. Obviously tight with the kinebrach even after kinebrach were recognized as an independent power rather than an Interex vassal state.

The rest of the Imperium sees them as a bit hippie-ish. They're technical pacifists, they fight but only in self defense and are loathe to fight other species to the death. That said, they're really nice and open minded as you can get without letting Chaos in. So they make good diplomats. And while they might feel bad about xenocide and try alternatives they aren't stupid when it comes to Orks and the like. Their combat doctrine also involves a lot of overwhelming force in key areas to achieve victory with minimal casualties.

They're a little bit hypocritical in that they send their Janeways out to cause trouble elsewhere in the Imperium as part of their tithe while keeping their Picards closer to home. Their reasoning being that while war may be necessary, it is distasteful, and they don't want their youth being corrupted by the idea of war being glorious (especially because, you know, Khorne).

>>59027685
In Horus Rising the Interexi are described as being very physically distinct. Like if you saw one you would immediately tell they were from a distinct ethnicity from anything on Earth, though good luck telling what that was. I think they were described as having vaguely Asian features, but their most notable feature is their big ears. Not big, pointy ears like Eldar. Just huge ears.

They were also implied to have had problems with Chaos-corrupted human societies in the past. Which is why they were so suspicious of the Imperium not knowing what Chaos was. A Warp-capable society not knowing what Chaos was sounded mind-bogglingly dumb to them. They were also said to have good relations with at least one Craftworld.

At least in this timeline the Imperium knew the Warp was dangerous and full of gribblies, it just didn't know there were king gribblies on top of that.

Are Eldar GFs possible in this setting? How would one go about wooing one?

>>59028309
Move to Cadia. Don't die. Alcohol.

>>59026412
Thanks for the reply.

>>Off the top of my head, any doctrine around Eldar tanks would probably aim to exploit their huge mobility advantage over the armor of any enemy species, so strategically they could be used in an uber-Blitzkrieg, being able to exploit even small breakthroughs in the enemy lines thanks to their mobility and firepower. In canon, Elysian drop regiments are sometimes overrun by opposing forces because the main Imperial forces are unable to reach their positions in time a la Market Garden, so the mobility of the Eldar armor would allow to Imperium to quickly reinforce forward positions. Tactically, they would probably excel in skirmishing roles, crushing pockets of unsupported enemy infantry and retreating before enemy armor could arrive, or tank-hunter roles, since they could literally fly circles around enemy armor, as well as providing close air support when the situation demands. Their only real limitations are their rarity and logistical complexity, since I imagine wraithbone and grav engines are a whole lot harder to fix in the field than the systems of a glorified tractor.
Interesting stuff, two questions come to mind: 1.http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Aspect_Warrior This link mentions various aspect warriors that seem to have vaguely similar roles to Elysian Drop Regiments. In particular:

Swooping Hawks Baharroth, The Cry of the Wind 'Death from above'

Warp Spiders Unknown "Aggressive defense", hit-and-run attacks

Shining Spears Drastanta, The Tempest of Starlight Hit-and-run attacks

Crimson Hunters[6] Unknown Air superiority

Shadow Spectres[5] Irillyth, The Shade of Twilight Highly mobile warriors with powerful Anti-tank weapons

Eagle Pilot[1] Amon Harakht Fighter Pilots
Would I be correct in thinking that these guys would be the Eldar forces most likely to work with Drop Trooper regiments or are they largely not integrated into such regiments at that level?

>>59028309
Yeah that's possible. In addition to the whole LCB thing being in here, there was also something a while back about a tech-priest with an eldar girlfriend.

>>59028605
Neat. I don't know why, but the while Human×Eldar relationship thing always appealed to me. Surprisingly hard to find good fics of it, too.

>>59028454
Isn't Cadia blow'd up?

>>59028931
Not in this variant setting, no.

>>59028454
Warning: Make sure the alcohol is compatible for both species. Eldar alcohol can give humans the shits.

>>59028605
Was that the one where the two were working in prosthetics? I thought they were just working together and not...together together.

>>59028972
I honestly don't remember very well and it hasn't been added to the wiki yet so some poor sap is going to have go trawling through the archived threads to find out.

>>59028972
What about Human alcohol? I would figure it'd pack one Hell of a punch for an Eldar, especially a female

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>>59029096
Possibly not. Humans weren't genetically modified to be super soldiers, unlike eldar. Also eldar women are typically well over six foot tall usually sevenish foot tall. They can soak up a log of booze.

>>59029227
True. Still, you can't deny that Eldar women be smokin', yo

>>59029227
Hopefully they have a healthy appreciation for beer and whisky. I'd be disappointed if they didn't.

>>59028309
Possible? Son, that premise is how this entire AU started until we veered from the magical realm towards more srs bsns. The entire first thread is pretty much shitposting and thinly veiled requests for/attempts at smut.

>>59030057
I-is there good smut? Asking for scientific purposes.

>>59028562
Forgot my second question.
>>a glorified tractor
Has the Imperium managed to bash together a better MBT then the Leman Russ yet? If not, what do the improved Russ variants mentioned in the wiki look like exactly?

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>>59029227
>>59029773
Saim-Hann loves alcohol. And Space Marines and Dog Soldiers can handle Eldar alcohol (then again, Astartes can live off rocks). The leader of Saim-Hanm (Leithon?) challenged Russ to a drinking contest. He assumed the mon-keigh wouldn't be able to handle the gargle blaster that Eldar like to drink that is calibrated for their super soldier physiology. Saim-Hann probably makes the hardest Eldar alcohol this side of the Eye. He hadn't counted on Leman Russ, the guy who invented Mjod because he wanted to still get hammered even after he recieved Canis Helix augmentations (which likely included anti-intoxication genes) and could outdrink a Man of Gold. Leman barely managed to drink him under the table before passing out, and Saim-Hann thought that any society than could produce a warrior that could keep up with them was worth getting to know better (Russ was similarly impressed, which set the tone for Saim-Hann and Fenris' longstanding mutual respect).

Also best two out ot three. Because he had almost had Leman last time, and Saim-Hann doesn't take defeat lying down.

>>59030403
There were pictures. No one figured out how to upload them.

>>59030505
Do Saim-Hann Banshees like to go fast, too? How would they be in the sack?

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How do cultural appropriation is handled in this setting?

>>59030611
I want Yvraine to bully me...

>>59030528
Well fuck, that sucks. Anyway on the subject of tanks, one explanation I've always had for Imperial Super-Heavy Tanks actually working as described and not immediately breaking most bridges or roads they come across and not sinking into the dirt was that a pretty large amount of the Imperium's anti-grav technology is used in said super-heavies so that most of their weight is never actually felt by any surface they drive over. I dunno how well this works in vanilla Grimdark, but it seems like something that would fit in very well in the Nobledark Imperium.

>>59030647

That and they are REALLY good mountain vehicles. Like, they can literally climb up an almost verticle incline if needed, thanks to the Macedonian's invention in the Forge-off of Mars.

It's a special feeling beeing flanked by a super-heavy tank from a mountainside. More often than not, utterly lethal too.

>>59031070
Is there more information about this in the wiki or is it in the various archived threads?

>>59032041

It's in Fulgrim's forge off with Gorgon on the wiki, in a passing passage.

>>59032041

More specifically

>>an ingenious system of actuated tread claws that would let superheavy tanks scale sheer inclines was produced by the Macedonian envoy

>>59033012
>>59033048
Interesting stuff, so it's in the primarch's section of the wiki then?

>>59025340
>>59028562
The weirder specialized regiments tend to be so thinly spread cooperation isn't really worth it. Catachans might team up with Dark Reapers and Elysian Drop Troops might team up with Swooping Hawks but it's not standard protocol. Aspect Warriors might show up to reinforce any given regiment but so might a group of Astartes. This is one of the reasons the Cadian school of combat laugh at the Macharians, the galaxy is too big of a place with too many variables to maximize efficiency at any given time.

That said, the explanation of tank warfare as mentioned by >>59026412 sounds interesting. Tank warfare would definitely be more common, as there are a lot more eldar tanks than Aspect warriors so cooperation would be a lot more common.

Don't we have a couple of Eldar who work with unholy abominations of mixed human, Eldar, and even some Tau designs? (Rommel and Hammerhead Bill, IIRC).

>>59030647
>>59031070
That makes a lot of sense. A lot of mainstream Imperial technology looks primitive and blocky as shit but turns out to be really, really durable. Like lasguns.

>>59034412
Yes

>>59021357
The Sslyth also came up, specifically their relationship with the Diasporex and Laer (which they may be the founders of and the uncorrupted members of who decided they didn’t want to live on Laeran anymore when people started getting Chaosy, respectively).

The nature of the Sslyth (with two of the three potential surviving parties ending up associated with eldar), as well as the fact that they fell to Slaanesh of all beings makes me wonder if the Old Eldar Empire used them as a puppet state in proxy wars with the rest of the galaxy. Kind of like how the USA and USSR treated Korea and Vietnam. The Hubworlder League might fall into a similar category; they obviously weren’t a puppet state of the Old Eldar Empire but did have a good relationship with the nearby Eldar worlds who actually admitted they could create art better than they could whereas the rest of the galaxy knew them as “isolationist assholes”. So if the Old Empire ever wanted to call off a period of aggressions they might have gone to the pre-Strife Hubworlders as intermediaries since they were neutral to both parties.

Are there any Laeran daemon princes? One would think they would be one of the best candidate for it aside from the Loxatl and the Yu’Vath.

>>59035291
>>Catachans might team up with Dark Reapers and Elysian Drop Troops might team up with Swooping Hawks but it's not standard protocol.
Aww nuts, oh well at least the explanation for this makes sense.

>>That makes a lot of sense. A lot of mainstream Imperial technology looks primitive and blocky as shit but turns out to be really, really durable.
Why thank you.
>>Like lasguns.
Speaking of lasguns, what precisely are they like in nobledark land exactly? The Eldar have advanced laser technology, don't they? Have they been helping the imperium increase the effectiveness of their infantry's standard rifle(along with other laser weapons, now that I think about it for a moment) or do logistical concerns and ad-mech bitching forestall that and if that is the case, do the eldar still help out with this sort of thing on the sly and at a smaller scale. That is, would the Biel-Tan aid their Tallarn friends by giving them better laser weapons for example? Do the Ulthwe help out the Cadians with something similar?

>>59035485
Yeah I was going to mention them as well but I honestly forgot. Them being a proxy state is an interesting idea.

>>59021357
Also Water Spider came up. I reworked some of the old Water Spider stuff with the discussion in the thread and previous suggestions and put it on 1d4chan since it seemed at the time like Nobledark had died and it was mostly coherent.

What we really need is to get some of the stuff on the Notes page written up. I've seen some people say Nobledark is hard to get into because most of the stuff is on the Notes page.

I think at least some of it could go on if it gets hammered out a bit. Might try a bit with Carlos McConnell and the mention of Isha's garden in the last thread. Only question is would Isha keep her garden on the Bucephalus or in the Imperial Palace? The Emperor and Empress have been established as barely ever staying in the palace (hence 'the Travelling Court'). At the same time they probably use the Webway as much as possible due to the Travelling Court being THE juiciest target in the Warp. Maybe mostly using ship-sized Webway gates you see in fluff.

>>59035505
Exodite las-carbines in canon are said to be more effective than IG lasguns.

Eldar chainswords are also said to be more efficient than Imperial ones, incorporating a monomolecular blade and trigger on contact with a target rather than having to be switched on.

The AdMech are said to not like people going to those that aren't them for tech, though that applies to everyone, not just xenos. And the form of their displeasure usually takes the form of boycotts rather than bombardment. However, the presence of groups like the Interex, Hubworlders, kinebrach, and eldar might force the AdMech to innovate so that they don't get outcompeted by a more efficent product. As in, produce designs that are TOTALLY FROM ANCIENT HUMAN DESIGNS and not reverse engineered from xenos tech at all. Others might be a bit more upfront about using the principles of modern xenos tech to fill in the missing gaps of lost human designs. The laws of physics don't change in the material realm after all. A motor on a xenos engine might be exactly what is needed to make an old plasma gun design work. These tech-priests reason if they get it to work it means they managed to figure out how ancient humans did it, and therefore built the device as intended by its creators. They didn't invent anything but just filled in missing parts.

It would be like Europeans trying to reconstruct Greek fire or Damascus steel from Chinese applications of the same principle for different uses. Whether this is tech-heresy is an exercise for the AdMech.

Though the AdMech in canon is also said to know how a lot more advanced technology works, they just don't share it with the Imperium because they don't want the best stuff to be turned back on them.

>Co-op
This still doesn't mean you couldn't have a group of Your Dudes who are led by a pair of commanders who have worked together on many an occasion.

>>59035623
I'd help with this, but I have zero skill at creative writing and zero practice. All I can do is ask questions and put out the occasional idea.

>>59035883
Interesting information. I especially like this bit:
>>However, the presence of groups like the Interex, Hubworlders, kinebrach, and eldar might force the AdMech to innovate so that they don't get outcompeted by a more efficent product. As in, produce designs that are TOTALLY FROM ANCIENT HUMAN DESIGNS and not reverse engineered from xenos tech at all. Others might be a bit more upfront about using the principles of modern xenos tech to fill in the missing gaps of lost human designs. The laws of physics don't change in the material realm after all. A motor on a xenos engine might be exactly what is needed to make an old plasma gun design work. These tech-priests reason if they get it to work it means they managed to figure out how ancient humans did it, and therefore built the device as intended by its creators. They didn't invent anything but just filled in missing parts.
Very pragmatic and when you combine things like this and the whole fear of innovation due to possible void dragon fuckery you get an organization that is both understandably hidebound and yet sometimes surprisingly adaptable.

>>Though the AdMech in canon is also said to know how a lot more advanced technology works, they just don't share it with the Imperium because they don't want the best stuff to be turned back on them.
Would you say that even in this setting the AdMech are still holding stuff back due to this reason?

>>59035505
>>59035883
A blurb written by Militaryfag about this is on the Forces of the Imperium page:
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Nobledark_Imperium_Imperial_Forces#Lasguns

>>59036248
Hey, everyone starts somewhere. We're pretty open to new writers for this project, just don't be like those few guys who clearly hadn't read any of the Nobledark fluff and demanded retarded changes to established events. Give it a shot, post it to the thread, and we'll give you feedback on how to fix it.

On the subject of Elysia we don't have anything done on the subject of the Elysians.

>>59037261
Probably because it fits this AU decently in its canon form. Our project policy is to minimize differences from canon and only change the things that conflict with the themes/events of this universe, and Elysia as a verdant, prosperous civilized world is like the poster child for an average world in this Imperium as opposed to being a notable outlier in canon.

People in this thread have been wondering how Elysian Drop Troops integrate with the combined arms tactics of this Imperium, so maybe one of the more military-minded writers can take a stab at that.

>>59037374
>>Elysia as a verdant, prosperous civilized world is like the poster child for an average world in this Imperium as opposed to being a notable outlier in canon.
Fair enough, but somewhere down the line some of the obvious cultural differences would need to be explained yeah? Are there any assimilated aliens nearby that they would be trading with for example?

>>59037374
>>59037594
Are there any named Vanilla characters?

>>59038017
None named that I can see in the Lexicanum.

>>59037374
>>59037594
If we want to differentiate it somewhat whist keeping the planet itself as a fairly typical militarized civilized world then it could be the surrounding system that is busy.

In Vanilla it is down as having a large number of large asteroids and barren moons and also that a tear in the warp known as the Great Rift has formed in the wake of the 13th Black Crusade.

I suggest that we push the creation of the Great Rift back to the 11th Black Crusade or any other one we don't have much written for. It also gives the culture of militarization some time to set in and become old and accepted tradition and something the local take pride in rather than a break in tradition and something that they resent.

The moons and asteroids are owned mostly by state sponsored and licensed mining corporations and other nominally private concerns who in reality are very regulated and influenced by the state. There are many off-world manufacturing facilities but rather than them being concentrated on Elysia itself or in Elysia orbital facilities they do a lot more on site on the principle that if you diffuse the manufacturing then you can't take it out with a few well placed nukes. Much of the manufacturing produce goes out of the system with the tithe and supports the military bulwarks of at least dozens and possibly scores of other nearby systems but a lot of it, a lot more of it since the 11th Black Crusade, tends to get sent to the dockyards. Elysia has always been known for it's fine piolets and small craft operators, now it is going to get known for it's navy. This endeavour has been largely seconded to imported Void Born from several Houses and Tribes looking to make names for themselves and set up Houses of their own.

>>59038797
Add to this an elder space colony on one of the iceball moons of the far orbit. Furthest gas giant out has 5 moons. One of them is ~Earth mass. It's mostly covered in an ice layer, under the ice is water in liquid form. The moons is geologically active and there are things living down there around the deep sea vents.

Eldar claimed that frigid hell in the days prior to the fall. They are puritans like the Exodites but a different branch. Obviously they never gave up as much technology but they are far more primitive than the craftworlders. Unlike the exodites they aren't affiliated with the crftworlds who they see as decadent. They have made contact wit the Elysians and they do get along but they remain independent from the Imperium, though they did allow the Disciples of Isha to set up a temples. They don't reject their eldarness, they just set out in a different direction when shit started to go bad.

>>59038797
Great Rift didn't form in this timeline (yet) because Cadia isn't exploded. It's also debatable given how the pylons work here if destroying Cadia would create a rift. It might do nothing, or it might soak the Segmentum Obscurus in the tides of increasing Warp Corruption. Chaos might drag the galaxy into the Warp, but it would be in the manner of a chronic smoker damaging their lungs than one big event.

>>59036345
They're probably holding back less stuff. Autoloaders have been mentioned to be more common, though manual loading in the event of damage is common. It's probably they're holding back stuff they think the Imperium is too stupid to handle on a daily basis like automated kill-ships and stuff.

>>59041188
Great Rift could have had a different cause this time and a much needed minor win for Chaos. Or we could drop it entirely.

>>59035623
It might be a juicy target but it's not accessible. Oscar acts as a walking super-Gellar field generator. It's what made The Raid a possibility.

>>59038797
>>None named that I can see in the Lexicanum.
Actually, while no native Elysians are named we do have this from Lexicanum.
>>Sometime after the Great Rift's creation, Elysia was invaded by a large force of Chaos Space Marines. In order to prevent the invaders from becoming a threat to Terra, the Adeptus Custodes Captain-General Trajann Valoris has led the Fury of Terra Shield Host, to battle against the traitors.
Potential for a historical conflict here if the creation of the rift is moved back a bit.

There's also this from the warhammer 40k wikia under the Elysia system entry:
>>In 934.M41 Elysian troops finally drove off Ork Kaptin Blacklaw and his Freebooterz from Elysia's Stranthium Orbital Space Docks, ending a decade-long blockade by the Greenskin pirates.
No natives, but you could in theory make this Blacklaw into a more serious threat in nobledark, make him a chaos ork and a constant thorn in the Imperium's side near a reasonably prosperous star system.

The Imperial Armor books may have some native Elysian characters we can poach, it's also possible that some of the RPG books might too.

>>59038797
>>59041188
>>59045126
We've generally excluded the more recent fluff developments from canon like Gathering Storm because:
A) this project started before those changes occurred (this started almost 2 years ago!) and B) I get the feeling that the consensus is we don't particularly like the changes. Primaris Marines to me are a total cop out that only exist because GW was too afraid to go with truescale marines and squat people's old models, and the Great Rift was poorly thought without properly considering the effects it should have have given the universe's established internal logic. I think the only exception is that we have Yvraine in this AU, but even then she's a pretty minor player happily farming potatoes who may or may not have a larger role in the events to come.

>>59042206
The Hadex anomaly could be refluffed as a minor win for Chaos. I mean that's basically a mini-Maelstrom right on Ultramar and the Tau Empire's doorstep.

>>59045572
I think we mentioned that it was the scar of one of the other Chaos gods being born. I don't think it made it as far as the notes page so it's still up for grabs.

>>59045460
That's fine, but was Blacklaw and his freebooter gang one of those recent additions? If not, I see potential here for at least a mid-tier threat.

>>59045572
But how far from Elysia is it?

I do like the idea of a world turning into Starship Troopers because of a doorway to hell in the sky. Also at some point they will inevitably fight nids.

>>59045460
We have included some minor bits of 8ed that fill in previously unexplored parts of the universe or just sound cool. In addition to Yvraine, we have Ka'band'ha being tsundere for the Blood Angels and rushing in to attack/save Baal "they're mine you kill-stealing jackasses". Only in this case it was the Silent King trying to keep Astartes off his doorstep rather than 'nids. Ka'band'ha had been building up a force to take Baal but Szarekh forced him to move early (circa the time of the 12th Black Crusade, this is what likely called for the Reformation of the Legion that the Lamenters missed and are currently beating themselves up over). Baal before had been a rockball that the Blood Angels had terraformed into a pretty nice artificial planetoid. Ka'band'ha and the Necrons turned it into a mutant-filled wasteland that the Blood Angels are still trying to rebuild from in 999.M41.

There is also the Primaris Initiative, which is less "super-Astartes" and more "Titus is calling for a mass founding of chapters not seen since the opening days of the Great Crusade because of what happened on Ultramar" and everyone is either freaking out over that or what Titus is suggestion (which some have accused of legion-building, trying to seize power, being bloody stupid, or all of the above). First Founding chapters are usually first among equals but the Ultramarine sucessors like the Novamarines are getting increasingly worried Titus is going mad with power (he's not, but most people in Ultramar didn't see what the Swarmlord and the trailing edge of the main Hive Fleet was capable of).

But yes, a lot of the reason for the lack of 8th ed is we started this before 8th ed was a thing. Indeed when Yvraine and Guilliman came out and the more nobledark tone of M42 was announced there was some joking that someone must have seen Nobledark and took notes.

>>59048273
Baal I'm imagining as having been a genuinely inhabited and inhabitable (if slightly dry and irradiated) planet and old outpost of man.

Without prior intervention the inhabitants devolved into increasingly twisted mutants and died out before the arrival of the Jermaic settlers fleeing the ruin of Old Earth in the post-Beast shittery.

The modern Baalites and Blood Angels claim it's been terraformed but in reality it's been landscaped and gardened.

Here's a question that I don't think anyone's covered before: What happened the Bloodaxe Orks in the nobledarkness? In canon, they would do mercenary work for anyone willing to pay them in weapons, munitions etc. Is that still the case here or are they all chaos orcs, wiped out, or what?

>>59051835
It is extremely, extremely frowned on to accept mercenary aid from orks. Especially by inhabitants of Old Earth, who hate orks with a burning passion. That said, there are people who are crazy and desperate enough to deal with Blood Axe orks and think they can get away with it, including Rogue Traders, radical Inquisitors, and nowhere worlds so far off the beaten path they think no one will notice or care. Whether it ends up being successful is another matter.

We don't have any ideas for the origins of the Ork clans (especially since they were made by the Beast in canon). Presumably they exist.

Chaos orks are somewhat weird compared to regular orks. Some orks notice something is up, but they also notice the Chaos orks are ded killier, go fasta, are greener, or get wyrder than regular ones. Going so far as to place the Chaos Gods above Gork and Mork is a death sentence for most Orks. The Beast got away with it by riding on a tide of WAAAGH! fervour and getting himself killed before the consequences could manifest.

Bump

So, I checked the wiki again and I noticed the Severan Dominate entry. I would assume this means that the settings from the various other 40k RPGs are also present in the nobledark setting.

Soooo, has anyone bothered to detail them in anyway? The entry for the dominate mentions that efforts to suppress the rebellion is going forward, but may have to be curtailed due to sudden and severe catastrophe elsewhere.

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>>59042206
>>59045460
The Great Rift would have been a major win for Chaos all things considered. It split the galaxy in half, allowed massive Chaos incursions into realspace, etc. It's only the fact that all of the other factions got their Saturday Morning Cartoon powerups at the same time (Primaris Marines, Ynnari, Hive Fleet Kronos) that we didn't get End Times 40k edition.

A lot of Chaos actions by the Crone Eldar so far have been kind of like pic related. If you can't outright win, burn the women, salt the water, and rape the fields to deny the Imperium nice things. They have to deal with attrition and loss of planets as you're rubbing glass in their eye whereas you can rebuild as fast as daemons can remanifest, Daemonculaba can make babies, and Orks can be tricked into doing your dirty work. What are they going to do, un-corrupt a daemon world? Too much success and you're left wondering how the Imperium is still standing. A huge vortex anomaly like Hadex or a big scar like the Screaming Vortex would work, but if you have something like the Cicatrix it's game over man.

Both Fantasy and 40k really like to play up the parallels to the fall of the Roman Empire. The fear of a long slow death where you LINGER on the edge of oblivion before dying. But here the pattern seems to be more pointing out that being struck down at the height of your power from getting in a fight to the death with the wrong people is just as much of a threat as a slow death. It doesn't matter if you go out with a bang or a whimper, you die just the same.

>>59046156
If no one's added it, then do it. We need more named Orks.

>>59056085
IIRC, Dominate's been using grimderp pseudo-pragmatism to retain power for both legitimate (they're suffering from Tau syndrome and don't get the scale of the galaxy) and illegitimate (Severus family are a bunch of arrogant dicks) reasons. Among which are giving the Slaugth a few free planets under the table so the Dominate has a constant outside threat to keep them unified. Ignoring the fact that the last time the Slaugth got a major foothold we got the Rangdan Xenocides.

The efforts to suppress the rebellion are an ongoing 999.M41 thing. Troops are being sent there unaware that Malys is gearing up for Black Crusade number 13.

Not a lot has been done with the material from the rest of the Calixis sector, the Black Crusade RPG, and others, as far as I can tell. Slaugth have been detailed. Both Imperium and Tau have had "fun" (in the Dwarf Fortress sense of the word) times with them.

>>59056085
Also, what about places like the Calixis Sector, the Jericho Reach, The Koronus Expanse and the Screaming Vortex? Has anyone put any ideas forward about how these places work in nobledark 40k?

Initial Notes:

Blacklaw is a former mercenary who had worked for a rather unscrupulous Rogue Trader, and has gained indepth knowledge about the workings of the Imperium's naval forces and the defensive fleets and Elysian Drop Trooper regiments used in boarding actions in the Elysia system in particular. He has used this knowledge combined with the standard orky brutal cunning to make himself a very successful freebooter kaptin. His band has been responsible for numerous raids on imperial naval facilities, various commercial concerns, and has even raided mechanicus forgeworlds on occasion. What makes him different from others like him is his location in the Segmentum Solar and his unusual willingness to engage in hit&run raids, guerrila tactics and various forms of unconventional warfare. Generally speaking, his forces only engage in direct combat with Imperial/Eldar/Tau forces when they have stacked the deck in their favor by some underhanded means.

Here's what I have so far after a bit of brainstorming. Thoughts?

>>59058262
Lemme add a little more:

A devout follower of the GorkaMorka, he has no love for the Chaos Gods and tolerates no chaos orks in his band/fleet/whatever. However, his time among the humans in his earlier years has led to him having rather strange thoughts for an ork, pangs of what a human would recognize as guilt whenever his forces came back from a raid flush with loot and slaves. These pangs of conscience are infrequent however(and he doesn't really know what they are anyway), he's still an ork and lives to fight and win as much as the next greenskin. Also has a "parrot" which is basically a gretchin covered in glued on feathers.

>>59056120
Not going to lie I hadn't realised the scale of The Great Rift. That would be setting breakingly bad idea to include.

I just assumed it was another little spot a couple of light years long at the most or something.

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this is what I imagine a fairly young Imperial world to look like

>>59058530
Still more, please feel free to leave feedback and if you have suggestions for fleshing out this guy further feel free to suggest them or hell even write them up. I suck at creative writing and the few tidbits I've shared so far has been the first venture into that I've done since I was a little brat mostly.

"His forces have an unually high number of flashgitz and kommandos among their number and their naval vessels are of a surprisingly high quality for an ork fleet.

His attacks have been drawing ever increasing amounts of Imperial attention, in spite of this, he has shown himself to be surprisingly resilent either avoiding assasination attempts/deathwatch assaults or setting a highly successful trap for his hunters. The Imperium, and the Elysian authorities in particular are commiting ever increasing amounts of military force and espionage efforts to the destruction of Blacklaw and his freebooterz. It is only a matter of time before matters are brought to a conclusion of some sort, with Blacklaw either being driven out/killed or Him establishing his own little mini-empire in a place right where the Imperium and the Elysians in particular do not such an empire to be."

>>59058984
Sounds like an interesting combo between Tretch Craventail (likes a one-sided fight, uses guerilla tactics) and an Ogre Maneater (mercenarial, can team up with non-Orks if the loot is good enough though don't expect too much out of him). Like the "parrot" idea. Don't know enough to make a judgement, will wait to see what others think.

>>59058609
The theme of 8th Edition seems to be "nothing is the same anymore". Rumor is they originally were going to go full Age of Emperor and they used End Times as a test run because they figured no one cared about Fantasy. End Times lukewarm reaction led to them dialing their plans for 8th Edition way back.

>>59059312
Thanks for the feedback.
>>
Sounds like an interesting combo between Tretch Craventail (likes a one-sided fight, uses guerilla tactics) and an Ogre Maneater (mercenarial, can team up with non-Orks if the loot is good enough though don't expect too much out of him).
You know I wasn't actually consciously going for any given reference to anything? I just thought about what a surprisingly difficult to dislodge band of freebooterz would be like and went from there. Good catch with the Mercenary thing, I'll need to mention that in my next revision, assuming I ever get around to it.
>>Like the "parrot" idea.
I forgot to mention the beak, I NEED to mention the beak in my next version of this.
>>Don't know enough to make a judgement, will wait to see what others think.
I dunno how people will react to it, I mean the Elysia system is in the Segmentum Solar and in theory at least it should be reasonably safe from anything other then massive threats. That would be the other reason why I mentioned the somewhat unorky tactics. I figure that and the fact that the Imperium has so many other threats to deal with is what has allowed him to survive this long.

As another potential point of discussion, the topic of Imperial Knights has been raised before without much discussion or progress. Anyone have any ideas for them?

>>59058609
>>59059312
Yeah, I get the feeling that the Great Rift idea was pushed for by writers like ADB and Gav Thorpe who are of the view that the Imperium is destined to fall and 40k as a setting is the tale of its decline. Ironically, it's impact on the setting is pretty much minimized out by the resurrection of Guilliman because they didn't give time for the impacts of a massive galaxy spanning hole to hell to sink in before the player base was hit with ANOTHER galaxy changing lore event. With a bit of spacing between those events there might have been a bit of dramatic tension, but GW blew its lore load early and now we're back to the same status quo relatively speaking.

>>59058530
What would an ork feeling guilt even look like?

>>59059929
Honestly? I dunno. Maybe him attacking some random grot or krumping someone who looks at him in a way that he doesn't like. That is, practically indistinguishable from standard ork responses to things that upset said orks. The main difference is the underlying motivations for the behavior.

In much the same way that we scaled back Yvraine into something that fit's this AU lets do the same with the Great Rift.

A new warp hole has formed, the event horizon is about two and a half light years long and about two to three light months wide at it's widest. It's located in interstellar space not very far away from Elysia and so Elysia is typically where shit coming out of it is drawn to. Everyone else calls it the Elysian Warp Hole only Elysians call it The Great Rift. Cadians call it a joke.

It was created in the 11th Black Crusade. Elysia was almost completely occupied and the invaders were doing weird shit and mass sacrifices to turn the place into a deamon-world. The Elysian resistance had a number of skilled and sanctioned psychics on their side, they had a psyker training school, and they managed to displace the target of the ritual whilst the invading sorcerers were distracted by IEDs.

Before that time Elysia had been a very typical Civilized world. But for the language barrier you could transplant someone from current Earth from most of the 1st world countries there and they would fit right in very quickly. They even had a democratically elected government that worked. After the 11th Black Crusade Elysia became a meritocratic stratocracy with a bit of democracy at the local levels.

Citizenship is only awarded if you have served time in the military or by special and reviewed appointment. Only citizens are allowed to be voted for, vote or own land property. There were a few objections after the occupation when the military took over but that is long since past. Now this is just seen as the way of things and most citizens would find it hard to imagine a different life.

Fulgrim Doe would find the place eerily familiar as it is quite similar to Merika in the days of yore, but less shit.

>>59056266
Calixis Sector is infested with maggot people which is annoying as they were at one point thought to be extinct. Don't think that anything else or anything on the others has been suggested.

What is known about those patches of the sky?

>>59058638
It's what a hive on a hive-world would look like. World joining the Imperium from outside, of which by 999M41 there are barely any left, would look like how they looked before joining. Some might be hives, some might be early space flight mostly agri-world.

Freshly colonized Imperial worlds would not have hives. They would typically have a few cities with huge bunkers and defences and an area of arable land surrounding them that provides for them in exchange for protection and shelter in the bunkers in case of attack.

Of course it will vary greatly depending on the nature of the world colonized.

Are there any non-Imperial but none-Chaos worlds left by 999M41 or have they all been scooped up?

SO is Russ dead?

>>59065985
Probably. He was an old man and walked into a snowy forest and was never came back. He could have died and been eaten by "wolves" or trolls.

By coincidence it's the patch of trees where the Hunter eldar keep their doorway so it's possible he wandered into the webway.

It will never be known. It should never be known.

>>59066867

Until End Times, Nobledark 40k equivalent?

Would be funny if he comes back out dragging along the OG Russ and Khan too

>>59067694
This setting is frozen at midnight 999M41. Also we've gone over the possibility of crossover in the older threads, the verdict was a resounding nope.

Russ might come back one day to retake the High Throne, fairy tails tell as much.

>>59061981
The corebooks for those various settings have overviews of the various areas in question.

>>59061075
Oooohhh I like this idea, but I dunno if other people will.

>>59067694
>>59067829
My headcanon is that the stories are just stories. While we are leaving it deliberately open, everything else in this setting points to Russ being dead as a door nail given our discussions of Astartes lifespans and the fact he wandered out in a blizzard on one of the nastiest Death Worlds in the Imperium. I kinda like this image, it reminds of Paul Atreides walking into the desert at the end of Dune Messiah (I know Paul comes back as the Preacher or whatever, but I never read anything past Messiah and dying alone in the desert is a better end to his arc anyway).

>>59030505
>Saim-Hann doesn't take defeat lying down
Except in drinking contests.

>>59069032
I agree. But the stories endure, especially on Fenris where his is very much their King in the Mountain. To them he will return. To them he will never die.

High King Logan of the Grimnar undoubtedly grew up with these stories. Maybe on some level he retains a spark of that. He's old now and he should know better. Dog Soldiers don't live forever, Death will claim her own in time. But deep down, deeper than he will admit, there is still that flaxen haired lad hearing his gradfather's tall tales and old stories. Russ will return and until he does he will keep his seat warm and his kingdom in good order.

This is further complicated by Bjorn still hanging on. If, some would say, Bjorn can still be "alive" then in theory so can Russ. They are both of the same type, both of the same season.

But seriously, Russ died an old man a long time ago

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>>59069837
>Implying he didn't immediately challenge Russ to a rematch
>Implying that Fenris and Saim-Hann haven't been counting coup with one another for the past 10 millennia.

>>59061075
I kind of like it. Give Elysia more depth and something to do, and adds more Starship Trooper themes to the world, which gives them more of a theme beyond "those guys who get left behind because the Imperium are assholes".

>>59059929
People love to talk about the fall of Rome, but no one likes to bring up how the rest of the world chewed up Germany and spit them out in six years during World War II, how Genghis Khan BTFO the Jin Dynasty or Khwarazmian Empire (to the point that no one remembers the Khwarazmians except as a byword for people dumb enough to taunt Genghis Khan), how Alexander steamrolled the Achaemenids, or the Late Bronze Age collapse, which wrecked everyone except for Egypt (who still suffered heavy damage) and was not precipitated by internal corruption.

>>59071941
>Late Bronze Age collapse
Oh sweet fucking Jesus. The more I read about that the more it scares the shit out of me. Everyone almost everywhere just dropped tools and decided to fucking murder their neighbor seemingly over night. Everyone. Everyone everywhere. Fuck civilization, fuck nations, fuck technology or hard earned wisdom lets go back to the dust and the dirt and rut like beasts and murder like savages.

This shit is Age of Strife shit.

Age of Strife is just Bronze Age Collapse with deamons and robots to justify it rather than it just being everyone deciding to kill everyone else for economic reasons.

The stories of Homer are just the efforts of an Iron Age man just coming out of barbarity to preserve some little thing of the time before.

Fuck Fallout and Mad Max. This is the post-apoc shit.

>>59071941
Should I implement this into Blacklaw's background? His main enemies tend to be Elysians or those who are working with the Elysians.

anyone interested in writing up the story of the Gorgon's reflections on the Savlar crisis we had talked about? Did that discussion make it into the notes.

Fuck it, posting the first revision now. I can always revise again later, right?

Kaptin Blacklaw is a former mercenary who had worked for a rather unscrupulous Rogue Trader, and has gained indepth knowledge about the workings of the Imperium's naval forces in general, and the defensive fleets plus the Elysian Drop Trooper regiments used in boarding actions in the Elysia system in particular. He has used this knowledge combined with the standard orky brutal cunning to make himself a very successful freebooter kaptin. His band has been responsible for numerous raids on imperial naval facilities, various commercial concerns, and has even raided mechanicus forgeworlds on occasion. What makes him different from others like him is his location in the Segmentum Solar and his unusual willingness to engage in hit&run raids, guerrila tactics and various forms of unconventional warfare. Generally speaking, his forces only engage in direct combat with Imperial/Eldar/Tau forces when they have stacked the deck in their favor by some underhanded means.

(cont)

>>59073498
(cont)
A devout follower of the GorkaMorka, he has no love for the Chaos Gods and tolerates no chaos orks in his band/fleet/whatever. However, his time among the humans in his earlier years has led to him having rather strange thoughts for an ork, pangs of what a human would recognize as guilt whenever his forces came back from a raid flush with loot and slaves. These pangs of conscience are infrequent however(and he doesn't really know what they are anyway and his way of dealing with these unusual feelings is violence directed at things smaller then he is or those he thinks are inclined to usurp his position), he's still an ork and lives to fight and win as much as the next greenskin. Also has a "parrot" which is basically a gretchin covered in glued on feathers and a beak made out a plastic like material this gretchin is not fond of being called polly, being fed crackers, or being made to squawk, Blacklaw does all of that anyway out of simple amusement as there is no funnier grot then an annoyed grot. His forces have an unusually high number of flashgitz and kommandos among their number and their naval vessels are of a surprisingly high quality for an ork fleet, with the more hotheaded among his ranks being continuously thinned out by a mix of attrition and a deliberate policy on Blacklaw's part to make use of his more typically aggressively orky boyz in diversionary attacks away from whatever it is he wants smashed or stolen at the time.

(cont)

>>59073546

(cont)

His forces have no main base as such other then their fleet, only temporary hideaway ports in out of the way areas in the elysian system/sector and those areas in the Segmentum Solar immediately bordering it. Instead of massive planetside factories, his larger ships have some moderate manufacturing capability, which is in turn supplemented by whatever they can steal from their adversaries, trade for on the black market and collect as payment from the rather unpleasant or desperate people/aliens who would be inclined to hire his band for mercenary work.

His attacks have been drawing ever increasing amounts of Imperial attention, in spite of this, he has shown himself to be surprisingly resilent either avoiding assasination attempts/deathwatch assaults or setting a highly successful trap for his hunters. The Imperium, and the Elysian authorities in particular are commiting ever increasing amounts of military force and espionage efforts to the destruction of Blacklaw and his freebooterz. It is only a matter of time before matters are brought to a conclusion of some sort, with Blacklaw either being driven out/killed or Him establishing his own little mini-empire in a place right where the Imperium and the Elysians in particular do not want such an empire to be. However, this moment of descision may still be a long way off as the Elysian Warp Hole draws greater amounts of attention then his mid-sized band of freebooterz. He and his band have also been known to do mercenary work for various unscrupulous patrons. Although, again, He and his boyz will have nothing to do with Chaos gitz.

(cont)

>>59073567
(fin)

So that's it for now. Any thoughts?

Has there been any in depth discussion on how the Eldar view the Great and Bountiful Human Dominion of old? What do they think about the rise, the plateau and subsequent fall of that state and what do they know about how the birth of Slaanesh plays into that event?

>>59075326
We know that the Old Empire viewed the GaBHD and the other major groups of the time (Tarellian Empire, etc.) as a bunch of yokels. Didn't really care about them as long as they stayed off their lawn, unless they needed warm bodied for rituals or pleasure pursuits (which could have involved anything from what you're probably thinking to using the slave's organs for art) as they got more depraved. Arrotyr was really vocal about hunting down anyone who could even potentially threaten the Old Empire. Everyone else saw him as a nutter who couldn't comprehend the definition of peace.

I don't know about modern eldar. We don't know how much modern eldar know about the GaBHD other than "it existed". In canon the eldar blow off any attempt by humans to say they had advanced technology too, but in canon both sides are arrogant genocidal nutjobs (except Saim-Hann, who's kind of a white sheep).

Did Eldrad know what a Man of Gold was? He toured around the GaBHD when he was the eldar equivalent of a college student, but his brain was scrambled by the Fall and 10,000 years of age and he has trouble remembering a lot of details from before the Fall.

>>59073618
Not bad so far. Good idea, just needs some grammatical tweaking. Could be built on, but provides a solid starting point and stands alone on its own merits pretty well.

>>59076059
Thank you, this is the first time I've done writefaggotry for this board.
>>needs some grammatical tweaking
Hmm, do you know if Notepad++ has a grammar checker or something like that? I suppose I could get microsoft word and use that instead of Notepad++.

>>Could be built on, but provides a solid starting point and stands alone on its own merits pretty well.
I'm planning on writing up some rivals for him at some point down the line.

How many posts do these threads get before being archived, typically? Also, I have a question about the Macharian Crusade; see in canon Macharius and his forces met a very advanced Human civilization towards the very end of the crusade in question. In canon, I believe he dropped an asteroid or fifty on them, but how did this meeting play out in the nobledarkness exactly?

>>59073618
It's good and adds an interesting ork character.

>>59077936
Usually we get to bump limit, though sometimes threads will die early if interest wanes or /tg/ is moving particularly quickly.

As to your question about Macharius you're talking about Adrantis V right? Seeing as they're were extremely technologically advanced, the Imperium would probably treat them as a Survivor Civilization and open diplomatic channels to get a feel for them. If they were sane/uncorrupted, they would probably try and convince them to join and leave them alone if they refused, though Macharius would need to keep an eye on the Mechanicus to make sure they didn't try to "requisition" the world for its tech.

>>59073618
Not bad. As >>59076059 this anon mentioned, it's a good starting point for you to build on these ideas. At the moment, the prose is a bit flat and doesn't quite have the tone of a codex entry, so that may come with more detail.

>>59078649
Great, here's some preliminary work on his opposition.

Rivals include:
(Name Subject to change if necessary) Logann Powler An Inquisitor Lord of Elysian background who rose through the ranks of the Elysian Drop Regiments before being poached by the inquisition and considers Blacklaw to be a personal enemy due to some yet to be decided atrocity that Blacklaw inflicted on either Logaan himself or his family. A product of the psyker training program on Elysia and is especially strong in the area of precognition. Has a Female Eldar Corsair Fleet commander as a girlfriend/wife.

(Name Subject to change if necessary) Elrana Gilsamia The aforementioned Corsair and girlfriend/wife of the above. Has a powerful fleet at her command, a good deal of experience dealing with Orks of various kinds, and considers Blacklaw to be an opponent worthy of her attention. Also obviously wishes to aid her human lover's efforts at getting revenge on the Freebooter in question. A skilled personal combatant as well, with practical experience using all the standard Eldar Corsair weapons and armor. Also has some experience using Imperial personal weapons and body armor, but not as much.

(An as yet unnamed Tau military commander) Him and his forces are under the command of Logaan and thinks that Blacklaw will be easy prey for his combined arms forces. Kinda naive about the precise nature of the Freebooter band in question and it's leader.

Any thoughts? Lemme know and I'll get back to you once I'm done playing computer games. Plz don't die little thread.

>>59079012
Whoops, forgot my name and trip.

>>59078694
>>it's a good starting point for you to build on these ideas. At the moment, the prose is a bit flat and doesn't quite have the tone of a codex entry, so that may come with more detail.
Yeah, see that's kinda my problem. I have no idea how to write compelling prose. I can try and flesh things out a bit more, but I can't make any promises about quality.

>>59079012
Lemme amend this with one last thing before I actually go and play some vidya:

>>(Name Subject to change if necessary) Logann Powler An Inquisitor Lord of Elysian background who rose through the ranks of the Elysian Drop Regiments before being poached by the inquisition and considers Blacklaw to be a personal enemy due to some yet to be decided atrocity that Blacklaw inflicted on either Logaan himself or his family. A product of the psyker training program on Elysia and is especially strong in the area of precognition. Has a Female Eldar Corsair Fleet commander as a girlfriend/wife. Has a significant Imperial force under his command, comprised of both naval and ground assets.

There we go. I don't want anyone thinking that an inquisitor lord is running around on his own or something silly like that.

>>59059929
>As another potential point of discussion, the topic of Imperial Knights has been raised before without much discussion or progress. Anyone have any ideas for them?
Take the somewhat noblebright tone of the 5th edition Warhammer Brettonians replace the arthurian myth with Ad-Mech techno-wizardry. Have them be guardians of feudal worlds and also the military aristocracy of more advanced planets. Noble in Deed and Name alike, they are a tireless foe of the Imperium's enemies.

>>59079421
I can imagine Elysia and indeed any planet on the doorstep of a warp hole having a resident Inquisitor.

>>59081391
That would make sense, no need to chase if you can wait. Cadia has a resident one in Vanilla and in this more reasonable AU it's probable that Tallarn has one as well.

>>59078694
>>Adrantis V
Well, here's what the Lexicanum has to say about them.

>>The planet's population were hyper-advanced, and when Macharius arrived he said that they had "turned to the dark certainties of science, and created many new and wondrous machines". Even so, Macharius still had to conquer it. He was held at bay for two years until the planet finally succumbed to a redirected comet."Of its secrets, nothing now remains" were the last words of Macharius on the subject.
No mention of chaos corruption or anything of that kind, so odds are in this variant setting that they've been classed as a survivor civilization. Maybe they have primitive AI of some sort and are thoroughly on the Ad-Mech's shitlist.

>>59081391
>>59082021
>>I can imagine Elysia and indeed any planet on the doorstep of a warp hole having a resident Inquisitor.
See, I thought that would be more the work of the Ordo Malleus or the Ordo Hereticus, wouldn't it? Logann is obviously meant to be part of the Ordo Xenos. I suppose he could have another Inquisitor Lord in the area sapping resources away from his own work at hunting down Blacklaw to watch over "The Great Rift" instead.

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>>59024925
>that pic

>>59083562
Or they refused to join and got orked.

>>59083716
Doesn't Cadia have several resident Inquisitors in canon simply because...well, it's Cadia?

>>59083740
Vanilla!Imperial propaganda circa 999.M41. Yes, M41.

>>59084247
Could be, yeah. But we don't really know enough to say either way. I personally prefer them joining and going on the same Ad-Mech shitlist the Hubworlders are on only ranked slightly higher because they are too normal looking to be "mistakenly" classed as Abhumans.

>>59084253
If we're going by the latest canon version of 40k, Cadia has been destroyed, hasn't it? But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case for Cadia in this setting as well. However, the Elysian Warp Hole is significantly smaller then the eye of terror and may receive less inquisitorial attention as a result. Or, it may receive lots of attention simply because it's a warp rift, however small, in the Segmentum Solar.

>>59084412
Inquisitors are rare. It will have an Inquisitorial presence because it's a hole in time and space, next to a very contributing Imperial world in the Segmentum Solar.

But it's a tiny 2 light year long squiggle in the interstellar nothingness so that presence is limited.

So one resident inquisitor.

>>59084381
Then their tech can't have been to good or the Imperium would not be as it is.

>>59084412
Segmentum Solar would probably be big enough reason. Though isn't the Maelstrom at the border between Ultima and Solar?

>>59087265
As it is quite close to the Hub it might come under the jurisdiction of the Hubworlders, they are too proud to seek help or admit outside authority unless they have no other option

>>59083740
Considering the potential market and possible scope for lewd literature in a Nobledark Imperium that would not be exceptional.

>>59084719
>>59087265
Not really sure what to go with here, I could either make Logann and company the resident inquisitorial presence at the Elysian Warp Hole, an outside group that came in to deal with something that the local inquisitorial presence was not capable of dealing with on it's own, or part of the beefed up Inquisitorial presence around a warp rift in the Segmentum Solar.

>>59085455
Define too good, the Hubworld League has primitive AI with animal level intelligence. There was some world mentioned that had a planetary AI with intelligence equivalent to an 8-year old human child.

>>59037261
I'm pretty sure we do have a writeup of the Elysian Drop Troopers. Should be on the Imperial Forces page.

>>59090354
Yeah but this thread fleshed out Elysia a bit more outside of the drop regiments. This will help me out with my own work.

>>59087788
The Maelstrom was definitely under wider Imperial jurisdiction, the fact that it wasn't as heavily fortified as the Eye was part of the reason Lugft Huron rebelled (mistaking the Imperium's reply of "we're stretched a little thin right now with a Black Crusade" with "we don't care about what you need to secure your assignment, just get it done").

>>59091894
Honest question? Is there a particular in-universe reason why Huron went full retard in this setting? It just seems dumb for him to act as he did this go around to me, maybe he was just a very impatient and arrogant person?

>>59092270
Being given an impossible job that was going to kill him playing into his paranoia. In his mind the Imperium betrayed him and left him with nowhere left to go.

>>59089618
Mentioned in Vanilla or Nobledark?

If Nobledark the only other A.I. is Elmo who was not child like but was designed to be user friendly for children.

>>59093567
Hmm, makes sense. On the subject of Marines, has it been decided how Marine Aspect Warrior cooperation works? Are they two separate groups of specialists who occasionally work together like the guard specialist regiments and aspect warriors do, or has there been more integration then that?

>>59094672
Okay, so Elmo it seems that Elmo is the AI I was thinking of, fine. But what about this from the Hubworlder listing in the notes section?

>>Result is that their armies are lacking in brute man power but supplemented with hand crafted Legio Cybernetica. They argue that they have not broken the First Commandment because they are not true A.I. becasue they lack sufficient intelligence and are usually somewhere between a well train dog and cuttlefish in terms of brains.

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>>59094828
Space Marines are pretty specialist already and tend to get thrown into meat-grinders of ridiculous intensity. Eldar specialize in finding ways of not sticking your dick in the bacon slicer.

The two would not meet unless things went wrong.

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>>59094901
It's a roomba with a gun. It's not going to revolutionize society for the same reason dogs don't; they are loyal, obedient and loving idiots.

Hubworlders were part of the GaBHD and would have been as deep in the Iron Wars as the rest of humanity. They aren't going to risk making thinking machines again for the same reason the AdMech won't.

>>59095007
Fair enough for the Hubworlder stuff then, but one last thing, don't titan's have AI's with what are essentially primitive(as in human child level)levels of sophistication to them? Is it possible for that to be done at a smaller scale of machine then Titan size?

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>>59092270
He thought the Imperium disregarded his warnings and abandoned him during the 12th Black Crusade. In response he went full Big Boss and turned Badab into Space Cambodia. It's possible the High Lords plain didn't recieve his message, given they were more preoccupied with Malys trying to sodomize everyone again, and Huron took it as a snub.

>>59094828
>>59094937
Space Marines and Aspect Warriors have been mentioned as cooperating. You have cases where you have massive fronts like on Armageddon and therefore Guardians, Guardsmen, Astartes, Aspect Warriors, Fire Warriors, and everyone else the Imperium can dredge up on short notice fighting together. But most don't do so frequently.

>>59095683
Probably, but Titan machine spirits are a good example of AdMech double-think. A.I. goes nuts and kills everyone. Titans (normally) do not do this. Therefore, although Titans are sapient, they are not A.I. It's been mentioned exactly what constitutes a machine spirit is very vague. It could be an animistic spirit created by Warp belief, it could be an emergent A.I. built out of scrapcode, it could be an actual A.I., but anything short of Tiberius has an escape clause. In some parts there is very little difference between machine spirit and abominable intelligence other than "is it artificial?" and "is it trying to kill you?"

The Titans themselves are basically children who like to stomp things. They aren't going to object to the classification (except Castigator, but he already hates everyone and considers modern Titans to be crude, mentally handicapped knockoffs).

>>59095007
Hubworlder voidsmen in a nutshell.

>>59096866
>>Probably, but Titan machine spirits are a good example of AdMech double-think. A.I. goes nuts and kills everyone. Titans (normally) do not do this. Therefore, although Titans are sapient, they are not A.I. It's been mentioned exactly what constitutes a machine spirit is very vague. It could be an animistic spirit created by Warp belief, it could be an emergent A.I. built out of scrapcode, it could be an actual A.I., but anything short of Tiberius has an escape clause. In some parts there is very little difference between machine spirit and abominable intelligence other than "is it artificial?" and "is it trying to kill you?"

>>The Titans themselves are basically children who like to stomp things. They aren't going to object to the classification (except Castigator, but he already hates everyone and considers modern Titans to be crude, mentally handicapped knockoffs).
So at least theoretically speaking, if Adrantis V was part of the Imperium as a survivor civilization they could have robots with mentally handicapped AIs as part of their military without necessarily causing trouble?

>>59097266
Oh, there would almost certainly be some sort of trouble. But they wouldn’t be killed for it, they’d just have to deal with AdMech trade embargoes and the like.

>>59098213
By trouble I meant machine rebellion style trouble. I'm curious how far you can go in the nobledarkness with things like AI before getting into skynet territory.

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>>59098516
Ask the Tau. They kept trying to push the advantage with their A.I. tech because they saw it as a way to get an edge over the more numerous Imperium (plus without knowledge of how the universe works the general question becomes "why would anyone not use A.I."). Then Chaos decides to get its hooks involved because it realizes the Materium can't have nice things, especially if it leads to the material plane realizing the Men of Iron going crazy was due to Chaos corruption and not an intrinsic property of A.I.

Tau A.I. rebellion is surprisingly tame. One good point in the Tau's favor, when their A.I. breaks it doesn't go nearly as psychotic as human's do. A few of the baseline-level A.I. with bullshit absorbing crumple zones side with the Tau and survive, the eight most powerful serve as advisors to the Ethereal council.

The Tau are rationalists. They know something must have happened. They want to figure out what went wrong so they can make high-end A.I. again, but right now their main issue is scientifically replicating the results. So for now they are trying to figure out how they can best improve the efficiency of "lesser" A.I., which is still probably the best in the Imperium (even compared to Interex and Hubworlders, as the Tau excel at A.I.).

Imperium had nothing to do with it, despite the displeasure of some salty tech-priests who wanted to forcibly intervene because an A.I. uprising in your backyard is not something you want. Not everyone believes this, Tau conspiracy theorists have a field day. This belief helps influence one Shas'O "Farsight" Shovah, who believes the Imperium deliberately incited the rebellion to neuter the Tau and prevent them from rising on their own merits.

>>59098516
As for how far you can go when Chaos isn't involved, look at the DaoT. Humanity wasn't so much one species as a spectrum between fully organic and fully machine, including Men of Stone (what Imperials consider baseline humans, but genetically altered compared to 21st century humans), cyborgs (all the way to brain-in-a-jar like the Thallaxi or Olamic Quietude), uploads (organic minds uploaded into data), skinjobs (synthetic minds with positronic brains in fleshy bodies, though I'd assume that might not be the exact term used), and Men of Iron (robots). All organized (ruled over is a strong term, since the Iron Minds preferred to nudge people to do what they want than come down from on high) by the Iron Minds (super-A.I. with massive Warp presences, basically mass-produced gods individually weaker but more numerous than other species' pantheons) and the Men of Gold (Custom-built humans built from scratch with heavily modified DNA, numerous micro-cybernetic augmentations and synthetic organs, and ridiculous psychic powers that acted as communications networks and reliable comminicators between the Iron Minds and the more organic members of society).

A.I. actually used to be humanity's hat, not the Tau. Then the Age of Strife happened.

Most of the Men of Iron also had souls in some way. What's interesting about the DaoT is that it sounds like humanity had already navigated a lot of the pitfalls you always hear about in science fiction (only to be faced with a lot more later on). If you asked if a Man of Iron had a soul, the response would be "well yeah, duh".

Of course, this caused problems when one half of humanity went crazy and had to be put down by the other half. Who only survived because the A.I. gods were too busy making war on each other to notice the mere mortals preparing to stick the knife in their back when they had weakened each other.

>>59099782
>>59100150
So in theory, you could at most have baseline level AI, which means around human level intelligence or something like that provided they have some sort of defense against chaos corruption? The "bullshit absorbing crumple zones" as you call them being the defense in question obviously.

>>59100443
I think- and this is personal headcanon here- the main problem with AI and Chaos corruption is that all AI of a given type/ model/ production run will all be identical or nearly so, so if you corrupt one of them you can corrupt them all in the exact same fashion. High- bandwidth networks also make the problem worse because it provides a vector for the infection to spread with extreme rapidity. Like a regular computer virus; if a bug affects one copy of a program it will affect all of them, and the more traffic is flowing through the system the more chances it gets to spread.

Therefore, the safest AI are those that are unique and handcrafted, and not hooked up to any network or only low- bandwidth networks. This describes most of the AI in use by the Imperium, like the Squat's automata or Mechanicus Titans.

It absolutely would not have described the GaBHD's robotic legions, which would have been both extremely standardized thanks to the STC system and densely networked.

I would assume the surviving Tau AI are unique systems that were separate from the main networks when shit went down, hence their survival.

But that's just my thoughts on the matter.

If thread is still up tonight I'm going to have another stab at Ornsworld writefagging.

>>59100853
But then how do you explain the Hubworlds and their admittedly very primitive AI? Honest question, do the Hubworlders handcraft all their Robots/Cyborgs/Androids or whatever with no real standardization?

>>59101734
Squats and the Hubworlds are the same thing. Admittedly, we've never covered exactly how they make their robots, but I could easily see each being a hand- crafted, individualized masterpiece.

>>59035505
>Speaking of lasguns, what precisely are they like in nobledark land exactly?

On the broader subject, IIRC human equipment is seen as generally inferior in performance to most xeno weapons, but vastly more reliable, easily-maintained/supplied and longer lasting. So while an Eldar or Tau might use their own tech for most matters, most pragmatic xenos would keep a human backup of their equipment because if you really need a gun that works in the rain, 500 km from a resupply base, you'll want that's utterly water-resistant and capable of being charged from a fire.

>>59102597

Its' like the springfield and the AK-47 series of wh40k, you can throw it into the mud, sand and corrosive seawater and take it out working only slightly-worse then new. And even the AKs can't reload by putting them up near a camp fire!

>>59100853
I think a lot of it is the bandwidth network issue. Men of Gold went insane and they were all highly distinct individuals. Most of the Men of Iron that survived were ones who were either not in direct contact with the Iron Minds or could shut off that connection. Ark Mechanici survived because they were originally self-sustaining colony ships.

>>59102597
That's with Eldar. Tau I think wouldn't care as much. They like their own weapons (typically disruptor rifles but also autoguns and the like) but wouldn't turn down a human one if offered, not necessarily because one is more advanced or more durable. Tarellians like to use their own weapons, but that's more a matter of them being survivalists than anything else and they aren't fool enough to completely reject them and fall on their sword.

>>59100443
If you're talking about existing in the Imperium now? Even a baseline level A.I. would get accusations of tech-heresy and bad things would happen. The only surviving baseline or above A.I. in the Imperium are Elmo, the Ark Mechanici, the few surviving Tau ones, and maybe the Emperor depending on where you come down on the Pinnochio issue. The creation of human level A.I. is likely to get you the banhammer. Dog/cuttlefish level just gets you ugly stares and embargos from the AdMech.

The A.I. that sided with humans in the Age of Strife (with the exception of Elmo and the Arks) degraded and disappeared over the years from lack of ability to maintain and repair them, to the point that by the time that Malcador made his fateful voyage none were around and no one remember that the rebellion of the Iron Men had been more nuanced. No one remembers Tiberius was a Man of Iron, for example. Indeed, Ultramar has gone so far as to claim Tiberius was the human warrior that sired one of their first leaders, and have the geneology to "prove" it.

>>59101795
Hubworlders would never be able to compete with AdMech in terms of quantity, it is not unreasonable that they would favour quality over mass production.

>>59103642
Men of Gold all started out as blank slates they then got basic knowledge stamped into them, walking and talking for example. Presumably it was always the same basic programming because why reinvent the wheel. Once Chaos managed to get in via the basic programming it was all instantly over bar the screaming because they were all connected.

Oscar survived because he was a cabbage.

>>59105697
>>If you're talking about existing in the Imperium now? Even a baseline level A.I. would get accusations of tech-heresy and bad things would happen.

Yeah but bad things in the nobledark tend to be more about the Ad-Mech boycotting your world/system or whatever and refusing to trade with you though, unless there's some sort of chaos corruption involved. A problem to be sure, but if you're talking about a survivor civilization maybe not exactly an insurmountable one.

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>>59110754
The problem is that if Adrantis V has a working Iron Mind then it's a total game changer. If it's just a Man of Iron then it's already been done with Elmo and it kind of ruins his thing a little if he isn't the last of his kind.

If Adrantis V has knowledge at least approaching Imperial Standard with reasonably widespread understanding of how it works then they will soon exceed Imperial Standard through improving what they have.

It could be that they thought that they had an A.I. guiding them but it was a human upload. It circumvents the First Commandment because it is an intellect that is of natural origin. He had a mother and a father and was born a human. Sadly society did not survive particularly well on Adrantis V, the whole place getting nuked back to togas and sandals classical Greece era.

Upload survives because he was in a remote location with a solar panel. The magnetic bullshit from the nukes knocks him out and by the time anyone presses the reset button it's centuries later and it's up to him as the last remnant of the Adrantis Golden Age to try and rebuild society with some regressed tribals. Sadly he wasn't an engineer or a teacher, he was a botanist who dabbled in home brewed beer.

This and thousands of years of no maintenance has caused problems for him. He's gone the computer equivalent of senile but hasn't been getting worse since the Imperium found him, although that might be because they very carefully replaced a lot of his more degraded components. The locals were using him as an oracle back in antiquity although by the time Macharius entered orbit they had advanced to building their first fission reactor and had the first huge primitive electronic computer. They also had come to the conclusion that their ancestors were from another planet and putting it all together they speculated on what Upload was and Macharius wasn't a complete surprise.

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>>59111409
Their inclusion into the Imperium went smoothly enough because of all this and they allowed Mars to send archeologists to sift through the old ruins for anything useful. The AdMech permit the continued existence of Upload for 3 simple reasons: 1) he occupies a convenient grey area in the interpretation of the First Commandment 2) trying to kill him would needlessly upset the Adrantians and most importantly of all 3) he's no threat to anyone and can be easily ignored and covered up.

>>59111409
>>59111488
This is nice writing, but I wasn't necessarily saying they needed to have any sort of human level AI. A survivior civ with titan-style mentally handicapped AI with maybe a few custom baseline AI's functioning as advisors and having no real command authority or control over anything was more of what I had in mind.

Although how it is that a single working Iron Mind would be such a game changer is kind of a mystery to me given the massive problems the Imperium faces, do they all come with built in STC replicators or some shit?

>>59111638
>>any sort of Iron Mind level AI.
Fixed.

>>59102597
>>59102974
>>59103642
Honestly, I would expect all the alien races in this Imperium would have a great deal of appreciation for things like Boltguns, Autoguns and Stubbers of various kinds simply because those weapons are more likely to do lasting damage to orks. I read in some 40k novel that laser weapons(and possibly energy weapons in general) create severe injuries, but on an Ork the cauterization of the wound caused by the burning allows them to keep on fighting afterwards unless you either hit them a lot, or in an especially vital area.

Honestly, thinking about it for a minute, the whole nobledark version of the Macharian Crusade needs a detailed account for the wiki.

>>59112850
It would be far more diplomatic than outright nothing but conquest. He was instrumental in The Rebuilding and the Imperium does not delight in war.

>>59111795
This is something I’ve particularly wondered about in regards to the Interex. In Horus Rising part of the reason the Imperium did so well against the Interex is the Interex’ bolts often went straight through an individual Astartes and out the other side, and the Larraman’s organ just patched up any damage. They could kill a Space Marine, but they basically had to riddle them with bolts or pin them to a hard surface. If it was that hard for them then how would they fare against Orks, which can shrug off the same caliber of wounds?

As we pointed out before Orks are so numerous in the galaxy that any civilization that doesn’t have an answer to Orks doesn’t last very long. Interex bolts are really good at shooting through multiple people at once, but if they do only glancing damage their effectiveness is in doubt. The only things I can think of is bolts with fungicide on them like the poison on a cho-ko-nu (weedkiller is canonically toxic to orkoid life, but only kills the algal symbiont), but given how Orks work all it would be likely to do is make them sick AFTER they’ve already put a choppa to your face. What kind of heavy weapon or flamer/plasma goes well with cavalry?

Autoguns and stubbers in this universe I think have been mentioned to be a common invention across several species. Basically anyone who can figure out chemicals go boom probably has some variant of them, though they may prefer advanced stuff. Rak'gol and Orks in canon both use some form of chemically propelled slugthrower. Boltguns are a human specialty, like pulse is for Tau (pulse being a more stable form of plasma), or monomolecular is for eldar.

>>59111638
>Although how it is that a single working Iron Mind would be such a game changer is kind of a mystery to me given the massive problems the Imperium faces, do they all come with built in STC replicators or some shit?

It would basically be adding another minor god to the table. It would be equivalent to adding another being comparable to the Great Horned Rat or Ulric to Fantasy. The Iron Minds were essentially humanity's gods, although with all of the romanticism of the process stripped out for THE GLORY OF SCIENCE. The Iron Minds were on par with the Men of Gold, and finding ONE surviving Man of Gold was enough to change the galaxy. Elmo wasn't much smarter than your average human and between him and Strogg the two of them rediscovered conversion beamers (though they have trouble efficiently utilizing it).

>>59115564
>>It would basically be adding another minor god to the table. It would be equivalent to adding another being comparable to the Great Horned Rat or Ulric to Fantasy. The Iron Minds were essentially humanity's gods, although with all of the romanticism of the process stripped out for THE GLORY OF SCIENCE. The Iron Minds were on par with the Men of Gold, and finding ONE surviving Man of Gold was enough to change the galaxy.

Ahh I get it, so they're also warp entities in addition to being high-tier AI.

>>59115968
Yes. They were trawling the deep warp for soul stuff to infuse into the Men of Gold so that they would have real souls on the day Slaanesh was born. It went about as well as you would think.

>>59116071
Yeah I read about that on the notes section in the wiki, although it didn't specifically mention the Iron Minds having warp presences of their own. I thought they were on automated ships or something like that collecting warpstuff with some sort of advanced technological devices.

>>59115564
>>Elmo wasn't much smarter than your average human and between him and Strogg the two of them rediscovered conversion beamers (though they have trouble efficiently utilizing it).
Isn't the planet they're on under boycott by the mechanicus though? If Adrantis V had a few human level AI in an advisory capacity, and lower level AI( around the level of a human child or an exceptionally smart animal, say.) in use with it's military forces that would make them more capable then the standard imperial world's military forces, but the resulting boycott from the Ad-Mech would mean their impact on the wider galaxy would be rather small, wouldn't it?

>>59112850
>>59114553
We've said there were actually multiple Macharian Crusades (at least 3, and he lived to somewhere around 450 years old), and they would still be like 90% killing dudes since they were designated as crusades after all.

>>59115422
Nothing unique to the Interex about that, just a matter of penetrating power vs stopping power and where along the spectrum the Interex are in terms of weapon design. For modern day bullets, a FMJ round that's designed to defeat armor will be every effective at piercing, but by that same token will be likely to punch through the target and be less effective at transfering energy to it, whereas a hollow point round designed to flatten and deform may lodge in the target and be more effective at energy transfer, but be defeated by armor due to those same attributes. So for soft targets like Orks, it's not like the Interex needs some fancy fungicide bolts, just anti-personal bolts that have a broadhead tip or something. Besides, normal Orks are tough but don't have the same regenerative/clotting capabilities that SMs do, so punch a big hole in them will probably work pretty well on it's own.

>>59111795
The flip side is cauterization kills any Ork spores at the site of the wound, and a big hole that bleeds is only marginally better than a big hole that's burned closed. At the end of the day any flesh or organs that were hit still have a big hole in it.

>>59117567
>>The flip side is cauterization kills any Ork spores at the site of the wound, and a big hole that bleeds is only marginally better than a big hole that's burned closed. At the end of the day any flesh or organs that were hit still have a big hole in it.
What about organ damage though? For example, don't boltgun rounds explode after penetrating their target and bounce around inside? The larger wound channel caused by that means that your more likely to see severe damage to the vital organs of the body, and if an ork's heart is no longer capable of pumping blood then that is an ork stopped. This is even more the case if we're talking about the brain.

Spores will have to be dealt with by burning the corpses regardless.

>>59116422
There was a description of how the Men of Gold were made in an old thread. It was very good but the rest of the story clashed with already established stuff (namely it had Oscar being aware during the Fall) so it never went up. It had the Iron Minds spinning the warp-stuff into artificial souls on site.

Think something like a Slann in Fantasy. Physical form sits in a single place while their mind goes out to the deep warp to dredge it. So they were astrally projecting when the nova of Slaanesh's birth happened.

The Rangda Abomination gives you a pretty good idea of what they might be like. Said to send its mind/soul off into the Warp to party with daemons while the Slaugth guard its body.

No one even knows Elmo is on Stillness. The AdMech are mostly boycotting it because they hate the Strogg family. It sounds like only the inhabitants and the Emperor (and maybe the Empress, though she probably wouldn't care since the eldar didn't make independent A.I.) know.

>>59114553
>>59117567
Wasn't there still an issue over whether they were in the Reconquista or after the Age of Apostasy?

>>59118093
Well of course a bolt is on a whole different level, it's pretty much a diamond-tipped hypersonic RPG. I was more comparing a lasgun vs stubber.

>>59118330
Fair enough, but the thing is the spores are going to be a problem regardless. Maybe a lasgun makes that a bit less of a problem, on the other hand a straight wound from a laser beam has less of a chance of damaging organs then several bullets in rapid succession. Either way, spores are an issue and I would imaging the Imperium will typically have burning ork corpses as a priority for any clean-up operations after a battle.

>>59101096
It's officially 12:53 AM in my location right now, I would say we are overdue for some writefaggotry.

I thought I might try my hand at writing up the Ullanor Crusade to get some of the stuff talked about in the thread organized. I was thinking for the Ullanor Crusade in this timeline took the actions of five legions and their primarchs, plus the Steward. We have Guilliman, Horus, and Khan from canon. Guilliman would have been the mainline fighter, Khan would run down broken parts of the army and keep them from reorganizing, Horus would contest the orbital high ground.

The Steward was there in case of situations that needed to be BTFO. Ullanor was serious. Almost Rangda-level serious. The only difference was the fight didn't go sideways like against the Slaugth.

The question would be who the other two would be. Or would five primarchs in one place be overkill? Most major joint actions in canon seem to have taken three. My thoughts were either Dorn or Perturabo for sieging and someone like Fulgrim for hitting the hardest points of resistance, but I wasn't sure who was and wasn't available.

Also, how organized were the Orks at this point. I'd assume the clans didn't exist yet, and were a creation of Urg's after he came back and whipped up the biggest WAAAGH! seen in thousands of years as a good "oh shit" moment, but were things like Speed Freeks around?

>>59121142
Probably. There would certainly have been Orks feeling the need for speed long before the Beast rolled around.

>>59121142
Someone suggested that the ork clans were founded by smarter than average orks post-Beast trying to rediscover their orkyness and what it means to be orks after being manipulated by Chaos.

>>59122233
Also of the old and probably forgotten clan founders only Zogwart survives currently via serial reincarnation.

>>59122436
Is this Zogwart written up anywhere or what?

>>59124401
Not yet. It was just a suggestion from a few threads back.

How much of the stuff from the Dawn of War games actually happened in this setting?

>>59125672
DoW 1 definitely happened, though with some significant changes. Most notably it was a reclamation mission and a joint multi-species effort and the planet is being parceled off in chunks to give to veterans as a pension.

>>59126781
Based on some of the stuff in the wiki, Winter Assault and Dark Crusade also happened, with obviously significant changes as well.

>>59121142
Was Oscar even there in this AU? He could have been on Old Earth administrating his realm.

>>59127920
I figured that he was there in case someone really needed to bring the hammer down. He was there for Rangda, and he got the shit kicked out of him by the Warboss on Gorro. Ullanor was like Gorro on the scale of Rangda, only with more fungus and less A.I. and worms.

Of the three primarchs that were there in canon, two were not front-line fighters in this timeline (Horus and Guilliman). The Void Wolves also aren't particularly numerous and tend to be boarding specialists with heavy baseline support.

Reading on more Crusade-era actions, it seems like most multi-legion efforts tended to be only three legions, except Rangda where the Wolves, Ultramarines, Dark Angels, and the two lost legions were present. So maybe five legions would be overkill, especially given there were only eighteen-ish active. On the other hand, maybe the Steward might not show up if more legions were present.

>>59080843
>Brettonia in Space
This could be good.

>>59125581
Reading up on canon Zogwart, this could really be a good character to flesh out in the nobledarkness. Really distinct personality and theme compared to the average Warboss you hear about.

>>59129847
Yes it could be, but remember that 5th edition Brettonia was very different from what came later, hence why I mentioned the "somewhat noblebright tone".

>>59088452
So this raises the question; how human do the Tau look and is there LCB smutty literature about them in circulation in the Imperium?

Alright, I think I'll post some more info about the guy hunting Blacklaw now. Note that all of this is still very much a work in progress and I dunno how fleshed out all of it will get in the end.

"Logann Powler, Elysian Ordo Xenos Inquistor Lord.

Born into a long line of proud Elysian soldiers, Logann's early life was filled with indoctrination, schooling and training. His Psyker powers were honed at one of the academies on Elysia and he proved to be a very capable soldier due to a combination of his adept mastery of weapons, drop trooper tactics and his psychic powers with precognition being the foremost of said psyker powers. His military career was distinguished enough, and he dealt with more then his fair share of Xenos Horrificus level threats. His skill in dealing with said hostile aliens combined with his talents as a Psyker led to his recruitment into the inquisition at the age of 38. He reached the rank of inquisitor some 12 years later, and was given the standard rejuvanent treatments. It was during his during his time in the inquisition that he met the eldar corsair Elrana Gilsamia, the pair hit it off fairly quickly and ultimately wound up together as a couple. Not all of his life has been rosy however, upon his return to Elysia with Elrana in tow to celebrate their marriage/couple status(or whatever the eldar use in this setting) Ork pirates from Blacklaw's Freebooter gang began a series of raids for loot and slaves killing a large number of people, including some of Logann's old friends from his time in the Drop Trooper regiments in the process. Recognizing an obvious threat to the Elysia system's security and incensed at this slaughter of his old warbuddies, plus the killing/enslavement of other people Logann and Elrana both volunteered to help hunt down and eliminate Blacklaw and his gang. Although, to be fair, Elrana is also interested in the challenge of capturing such a hard target.

>>59132467
And I'll also post the expanded list of Blacklaw's rivals. No need to post Logann and Elrana again because I obviously already posted stuff about them here.

(Name Subject to Change) Shas'O Dal'yth Har'rus Tau Fire Caste Commander and his force who are under the command of Logann and thinks that Blacklaw will be easy prey for his combined arms forces. Kinda naive about the precise nature of the Freebooter band in question and it's leader.

(An as yet unnamed Chaos Ork) One of the typically aggressive orks who got sent on one of Blacklaw's diversion raids. He survived somehow along with a few other lucky gitz due to the intervention of a small group of Khornate cultist, He and his fellow survivors abandoned the GorkaMorka for the Blood God as a result. Ironically enough, he views Blacklaw and his boyz as being unorky gitz who refuse to fight proppa, while blissfully ignoring that he and his boyz have themselves have cast aside their own essential orkyness when they chose to worship Khorne.

(An as yet unnamed Deathwatch KillTeam commander) A friend of Logann and Elrana who happily responded to their request for aid in dealing with Blacklaw and his band. A veteran of numerous assaults, raids, etc against Xenos Horrificus class aliens along with some against the more hostile Xenos Independens. He is well aware of how surprisingly clever orks can be at times, but he is not yet familiar with Blacklaw's precise brand of space guerilla assholery

>>59118229
Yeah, when Macharius was around was never quite settled, since I think only one person ever responded to me (I was the one who suggested Macharius be after the AoA). Unless more people weigh in, the question is just sort of out there.

>>59121142
5 primarchs doesn't necessarily seem like overkill. In canon the Rangdan Xenocides have 5 legions participate (though it's not mentioned if the respective Primarchs are there in person). Also, the entire Ullanor sector was infested by Orks, and in canon it was portrayed as the biggest or one of the biggest campaigns in the Great Crusade hence the Triumph and all.

Terra's Children would overlap with the Ultramarines a bit, as they're both generalist legions, with the main differences being that the Children do everything at a slightly higher level (due to the Fulgrim's perfectionism), but the Ultras are more adaptable and better at logistics. On that note, if the Ultras are at Ullanor I think the boys in blue may be getting a bit too much 30k screentime in this AU. They were included in the Xenocides in this timeline whereas they were not part of it in canon, though I do understand that was to explain how the Dark Angels overtook the Ultras as the most numerous legion. Since Ullanor needs a front line legion, maybe swap the Ultras for the Death Guard? (Death Guard were part of the Xenocides in canon so it's a clean 1:1 swap) Just a thought.

>>59133033
cont.

>>59132467
>>59132467
A few lore quibbles:

1) If Logann was trained as a psyker, he wouldn't serve as a normal soldier but as a Sanctioned Psyker so it's not clear that he would be a Drop Trooper. We haven't discussed how this Imperium's gentler attitude towards psykers would affect how Sanctioned Psykers are integrated into the Guard, which might be an interesting point of discussion.

2) Making Inquisitor in 12 years would be astonishingly fast given he doesn't have a Schola Progenium education/background. I know Abnett has Eisenhorn making Inquisitor in his 20s, but I find his characters to be pretty questionable and I think FFG's Dark Heresy fluff where Interrogators usually train for decades under an Inquisitor before getting their own rosette makes more sense, and doubly so for a guy recruited from the military with no experience in highly unorthodox and unstructured investigative work.

3) It's not clear how Eldar Corsairs work in this AU. The ur-example in canon, Prince Yriel, is more like a suicidally brave and eccentric Rogue Trader in this AU, so if Elnara is a legit pirate and is considered a criminal by the Imperium, then Logann probably couldn't have an open relationship with her or enlist her help without some serious consequences. If not, then the question is who the heck she raids if she's a pirate, since as far as I know Orks, Dark Eldar, Nids, Necrons, etc. don't really have anything resembling shipping or trade routes.

>>59133130
I could be that the Corsairs are a mercenary + trading fleet.

>>59133130
>>1) If Logann was trained as a psyker, he wouldn't serve as a normal soldier but as a Sanctioned Psyker so it's not clear that he would be a Drop Trooper.
I suppose I could write around this in some way, have him develop his abilities later in life and have the inquisition recruit him because of that, but you're right that this part of his background is very tentative at present.

>>Making Inquisitor in 12 years would be astonishingly fast given he doesn't have a Schola Progenium education/background.
I could just bump his age up by 20 to 40 years or so, would that work?

>>It's not clear how Eldar Corsairs work in this AU.
Fair enough, but couldn't she also just be a privateer or something working against the Imperium's enemies or some shit?

Overall, I suppose I can just wait a bit until the psyker stuff and the corsair stuff is fully fleshed out until I write more of this, or I can just put a big "Subject to Revision" disclaimer upfront and keep writing.

>>59133677
>>I could just bump his time as an acolyte up by 20 to 40 years or so, would that work?

>>59121912
Heh, this kind of makes me wonder what a chaos ork cult of speed would look like exactly.

>>59132467
Stick an extra decade on his Inquisition training and have him spend his psyker training on Old Earth where he became a Sanctioned Imperial Army battle-psyker.

0 - 8 on Elysia
8 - 17 on Old Earth
17 - ~20 Elysia PDF/IG
~20 - ~47 Inquisition employee
~47 - Now Inquisitor.

Still quite young for an actual inquisitor but not unheard of.

Eldar lover would be a good Privateer. A morally different Jack Sparrow type who skirts what she can get away with but never actually gets caught being anything other than mildly naughty and that she lends her ships out to the Inquisition lends her some level of leniency.

>>59134818
Slaaneshi orks are typically drugs, "music" and velocity. So they would look like a brightly coloured crackheads.

>>59118229
>Wasn't there still an issue over whether they were in the Reconquista or after the Age of Apostasy?

Mortarion was still around for it and died at the end of it. Mortarion was a Late Stage Thunder Warrior and they weren't as long lived as the Astartes so that means that it has to be early in the Imperial History. The Macharian Crusade would have been the biggest single endeavour of The Rebuilding.

>>59029227
So what is Inquisitor Viel doing in this AU?

>>59076034
I imagine that the Enclave Eldar know about GaBHD through cultural osmosis if nothing else.

>>59140877
Created early in the Imperium's history as counter-trolls to Tryzan the Infinite. Their job to steal back anything important that he steals. Tryzan and the Imperium have had a non-aggression pact since encountering each other in the Great Crusade so it's all clandestine as shit and the Imperium acknowledges their existence officially only under sufferance.

They were a successor chapter to the Thousand Sons, thus making them a brother chapter to the Grey Knights, Exorcists and others.

They have, due to their nature and purpose, developed a knack for obtaining other strange things. For example Magnus wrote a book Ego-Video Liber Deorum Daemonium (Gods and Deamons: A Spotters Guide). This book is on the extremely prohibited list as it's Magnus' collected knowledge on all things deamonic including summoning and binding. There are 3 official copies in circulation. One is in a very secure room on Ganymede, one is in the possession of the Grey Knights and the other is in possession of the Thousand Sons. By ancient common agreement no other copies have ever been transcribed. The Blood Ravens still were "gifted" from an anonymous source an on official copy.

They keep as low a profile as possible whilst still doing their job as well as possible. They participated in the reclaiming of Kronus where Gabriel Angelos, Master of the Blood Ravens, became friends with Shas'O "DoomTau" Kais.

>>59141335
Thanks for the reply, I deleted the post because I forgot to check the notes and drafts page for anything first.

>>59133033
Crap, hadn't realized that Guilliman wasn't part of the Xenocides in canon. That said, maybe Terra's Children and Death Guard are a better choice. Death Guard due to their skill in meat-grinder situations (and it's a sector full of orks, which is the definition of a meat-grinder), then Terra's Children as the generalist hammer, but using the Death Guard to compensate for the lower numbers of Terra's Children. At least, as long as that doesn't step on anything Fulgrimfag has for Fulgrim.

Then Dorn to blow shit up. Perturabo would also be an option, but I'm not sure if he was available. Maybe Perty since Dorn has been relegated to the role of spear carrier a bit too often in 30k.

>>59135244
Not necessarily a bad idea, but I have a few quibbles of my own. Firstly, can he receive Drop Trooper training as a sanctioned psyker?

Secondly, my original idea for the first revision was for his abilities to develop later on in life(possibly while him+plus the regiment he is either part of or in command of has been temporarily inducted by the Ordo Xenos to deal with a serious Ork Freebooter or other hostile Xenos problem around Elysia)and have him come to the attention of the Inquisiition that way. Is there something about the background that makes this unfeasible?

Thirdly, just how are psykers trained in this variant of 40k exactly? This post here>>59061075
for example, mentions that
>>The Elysian resistance had a number of skilled and sanctioned psychics on their side, they had a psyker training school, and they managed to displace the target of the ritual whilst the invading sorcerers were distracted by IEDs.
Now, were the psykers at this school sanctioned/trained on the blackships/terra or whatever, or were they trained on site? I ask because nobody really seemed to be complaining about any lore related stuff when this was first posted, and the wiki isn't exactly clear about how sanctioned psykers work in the nobledarkness exactly.

>>59132241
Believe it or not, I actually had some thoughts on this things.

We’ve mentioned in this timeline that there are some Tau-human relationships, though they are rarer than human-eldar due to cultural differences and numbers. So at the very least they don’t incite an uncanny valley reaction in humans.

The primary taboo in Tau sexual relationships is the production of mixed-caste children, which Tau’va Tau view in a similar way to how most human cultures view incest. Tau and humans are incapable of producing offspring. Tau also enjoy sexual behavior as much as humans or eldar do, both in nobledark and in canon. By Tau standards, it’s also probably not clear how humans and eldar organize ourselves, we have no clear caste structure. Human farmers pick up guns when needed, whereas a Striking Scorpion might pipe up about how 300 years ago they worked as a diplomat.

As a result, less orthodox Tau might not have a problem with Tau-human relationships. Mating with humans is not having sex outside their caste system, and it has no chance of producing dreaded mixed-caste offspring. To these Tau, such a relationship would be like having a friend help you jerk off rather than engaging in unsanctioned sex. Like friends with benefits only your friend is completely sterile. More traditionalist Tau frown on this, because this is not so much exploiting a loophole in the Tau’va as creating a loophole big enough to driving a Manta through. They also worry it detracts from the importance of Ta'lissera due to the focus on a single individual.

The Tau’va doesn’t really provide an exact answer to the subject, because Da didn’t know that aliens existed when he wrote it. Although if he did it’s almost certain he likely would have added a section about it being okay to tap alien booty, because the caste system didn’t exist until long after Da died and Da was a bit of a lecherous old man.

>>59142799
Use the third legion however you like, I'm happy to work around other details for the Blade of Laer and Wyrd War stories

>>59142848
If he's going to get posted with a regiment it's only right he be taught the ways of that regiment.

If his abilities developed whilst he was soldiering then it would make more sense to send him to the local Hogwarts branch

>>59145179
>>If he's going to get posted with a regiment it's only right he be taught the ways of that regiment.
Heh, I agree, but I dunno if other people in this thread will. Which is why at some point we need to hash out precisely how psykers are integrated into the Imperium's military in this setting. Anyway, I'll start on the first revision of his backstory after I eat dinner in an hour or so. I'll post it here at some point after that, could be hours, could be days.

>>If his abilities developed whilst he was soldiering then it would make more sense to send him to the local Hogwarts branch
Well, according to this>>59061075
Elysia has a local Hogwarts branch as you put it.

>>59143919
Soooo, how much of your stuff is finished? Got any rough drafts you'd like to share? Just asking.

>>59148146
I've got a little bit more done for the Taskmaster since I last updated people on where I was with it, and I have a mental outline for the Blade of Laer, but I've been pretty busy with school related bureaucratic stuff recently and its been hard to get much done on personal writing.

Here's a question: How do things like Sanctioned Psykers work in the Nobledark? The wiki mentions the blackships but it also mentions the eldar providing training. So are all psykers sent to terra to be screened/trained? Are some Psykers trained locally?

>>59150336
Terra is the primary training area for psykers in general because it has the deepest lore, especially since the refugees from Prospero mainly migrated there. However, there are other training facilities scattered about the galaxy.

>>59150336
I think it's the case that Earth is too far away sometimes and their aren't enough Black Ships to have it be a regular as needed service. In an ideal Imperium all psykers get trained on Old Earth but things are not ideal.

I believe this was already discussed a bit, but how precisely does the conflict against the Severan Dominate look in this setting? One of the replies in here and I believe also the wiki entry for the conflict makes mention of various minor xenos factions aiding them.
My question is are any of the major ones helping them? Dark Eldar for example? They are allied with the Crone Worlders but plenty/most of them aren't chaos worshippers themselves, so would Severus and company want to have their aid? Furthermore, did an Ork Waagh come barging through as it did in canon? I would assume that that all the kroot there are working for the Imperium. What about chaos involvement in the conflict in question?

>>59020817
>I AM THE WALL
and WALL spelled backwards is LLAW

>>59151406
They are known to have dealings with a few DEldar Kabals and the Maggot Men.

Working on the first revision of Logann's background now, and I have one question. In nobledark 40k, do regiments that have been inducted into the Inquisition ever get released from it? Or do they become part of the inducting inquisitor's personal army or what?

>>59152602
Hmm, has any of this been written up in the threads? Just curious.

Posting the first revision of Logann's background.

Born into a long line of proud Elysian soldiers, Logann's early life was filled with indoctrination, and schooling, various subtle and not so subtle propaganda films about the brave and heroic actions of the famed drop regiments of his home planet filled his young mind with thoughts of glorious adventure. His Psyker powers manifested shortly after his eighth birthday and his family bid him a tearful farewell at a local spaceport when he was taken by the blackships to Terra for training.
He returned to Elysia shortly after his seventeenth birthday to a tearful, but happy reunion with his family. Logann developed a set of mostly average psyker powers with the exception of highly potent precognitive abilities, and he fully intended on realizing his childhood dreams of glory in the drop regiments, he promptly enlisted and thanks to his skills as a soldier, precognitive powers and a bit of nudging from some influential members of his family/extended family he was signed onto the freshly raised 434th Drop Regiment where his skill with various arms, armor, psyker powers(mainly precog here, as his other abilities are thoroughly average) quickly led to him being one of the more effective soldiers in his regiment.
A few years after his recruitment into the regiment Logann and his fellow Drop Troopers had experience dealing with mostly trivial threats in between RnR planetside that mostly involved elysian booze and joygirls.

>>59152767
Then, Logann, along with the rest of the 434th were inducted into the Ordo Xenos branch of the Inquisition to deal with a mostly standard Ork Freebooter threat in the Elysia system that was only really exceptional for it's size, but was still the first major threat this regiment would face so far, and it was during this time that the Inquisitor in charge of the operation became aware of his capabilities. After the thread had been dealt with, Logann was offered a position as an acolyte at the relatively young age of 20, he accepted, and began a 46 year long employment in the Ordo Xenos, hunting various Xenos Horrificus level threats for the most part, and occasionally dealing with a few of the more hostile Xenos Independens. It was during his time in the inquisition that he met the eldar corsair Elrana Gilsamia, the pair hit it off fairly quickly and ultimately wound up together as a couple. Not all of his life has been rosy however, upon his return to Elysia with Elrana in tow to celebrate their marriage/couple status(or whatever the eldar use in this setting) Ork pirates from Blacklaw's Freebooter gang began a series of raids for loot and slaves killing a large number of people, including some of Logann's old friends from his time in the Drop Trooper regiments in the process. Recognizing an obvious threat to the Elysia system's security and incensed at this slaughter of his old warbuddies, plus the killing/enslavement of other people, Logann and Elrana both volunteered to help hunt down and eliminate Blacklaw and his gang. Although, to be fair, Elrana is also interested in the challenge of capturing such a hard target.

>>59152767
>>59152783
That's it for now, thoughts? I'm only halfway finished so far, and I could use an answer to this question here.>>59152664

>>59152783
>>upon his return to Elysia with Elrana in tow to celebrate their marriage/couple status(or whatever the eldar use in this setting) plus Logann finally being promoted to a proper Inquisitor,
Sorry, almost forgot to add that bit.

>>59152783
and began a 26 year long employment in the Ordo Xenos,
Damn I feel dumb.

>>59152717
Not sure. I think it was at least suggested.

>>59152783
It makes it seem that the threat of the Blackclaw is a fairly recent thing rather than his white whale. If he was noted to be older, maybe a little past 200, it could work better. He would also still be a relative youth compared to most of the Inquisition. It might add additional weight to the rivalry.

Also it has been mentioned that Elysia has a standing inquisition presence due to the warp hole. Presumably this would be an ordo malleus position. This would mean that Logann is xeno with extensive training in anti-deamon or he is malleus with extensive ork-slayer training. Maybe he chose a career in ordo xeno after Blackclaw fucked shit up whilst he was a neophyte.

Alternatively there is another Inquisitor permanently stationed on his turf and the two of them but heads often due to conflicting jurisdiction and incompatible dominant personalities.

Maybe add to that the Melleus and he have incompatible methodologies. Logann cultivates a small highly mobile group of hyper competent oddballs that accompany him on frantic high energy, high velocity hunts (that he then sells movie rights of to the Elysian film studios) complete with space-elf privateer ship chases.

Melleus has been there since the position was commissioned just after the 11th Black Crusade. She has the upper limit on what an Inquisitor can legally employ full time and is always ready to requisition a few regiments of the best of the PDF for extra muscle. Her resources are extensive on the books and unknown but assumed to be extensive off the books also. She is a mismatch of grafts and cyber-prosthetics in an adapted Void Born body harness. She does not hunt, she waits and instead employs people who can plan and act in a sensible manner.

Or not. It's only suggestions.

>>59150336
I thought the eldar just provided the initial training, not continued training to the modern day. Though maybe I am missing something.

>>59154298
They might offer basic "making that shit safe" training until the Black Ships arrive on jointly occupied worlds. There aren't enough Black Ships, shit is over stretched and then some. Basic training for free is in everyone's interest.

>>59141335
What other things have Blood Ravens been "gifted" in this AU?

>>59155982
Nothing too extravagant. All the interesting stuff gets poached by Ganymede.

>>59157749
A lot of stuff they tend to take tends to be ammunition, materiel, etc. Usually what's left over after a big campaign, and usually what they think the Administratum will miss via rounding errors, since the chapter doesn't officially exist and has barely any budget.

Like a kleptomaniac RPG protagonist.

>>59158419
Would they go as far as "salvaging" power armour from the dead?

>>59028605
>>59028972
>>59029059

Hey, that snippet was mine! My only contribution sadly, life got in the way.

It's waaaay back here: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/50119235/

but I can repost it in a single part later today if people want.

And to clarify, they were only in a working relationship, but there was slight potential for further developments.

>>59159757
It's just as sweet as I remember it

bamp

>>59154194
>>It makes it seem that the threat of the Blackclaw is a fairly recent thing rather than his white whale. If he was noted to be older, maybe a little past 200, it could work better. He would also still be a relative youth compared to most of the Inquisition. It might add additional weight to the rivalry.
Blacklaw has been around for a while, it's just that it took time for people to realize precisely what was up with his specific style of raids. Oh and Logann isn't meant to have that sort of Ahab style obsession, he wants revenge yes, and also to put an end to an obvious threat to his homeworld, but him and his wife still have a life together outside of their work.

I mean, we already have two people(Kryptman and Yarrick) who are pathologically obsessed with dealing with their adversaries. I really didn't want to do that again specifically.

>>Alternatively there is another Inquisitor permanently stationed on his turf and the two of them but heads often due to conflicting jurisdiction and incompatible dominant personalities. Alternatively there is another Inquisitor permanently stationed on his turf and the two of them but heads often due to conflicting jurisdiction and incompatible dominant personalities.
I was planning on adding something like this to his background to explain why he hasn't got enough of a force together to completely scour the Elysian system for Blacklaw yet.
>>Maybe add to that the Melleus and he have incompatible methodologies. Logann cultivates a small highly mobile group of hyper competent oddballs that accompany him on frantic high energy, high velocity hunts (that he then sells movie rights of to the Elysian film studios) complete with space-elf privateer ship chases.
I could do something like this in theory, however I do intend on him having him getting access to substantial assets of his own, just less substantial then what he needs to the job quickly due to the presence of the aforementioned warp hole.

cont

>>59154194
>>Melleus has been there since the position was commissioned just after the 11th Black Crusade. She has the upper limit on what an Inquisitor can legally employ full time and is always ready to requisition a few regiments of the best of the PDF for extra muscle. Her resources are extensive on the books and unknown but assumed to be extensive off the books also. She is a mismatch of grafts and cyber-prosthetics in an adapted Void Born body harness. She does not hunt, she waits and instead employs people who can plan and act in a sensible manner.
I dunno if I will use this precise concept, but you certainly have given me something to think about in theory.

>>59159757
Honestly dude, you should try and write more, this thread needs more writefagging, and my stuff isn't high enough quality to carry it on it's own.

>>59154194
>>Or not. It's only suggestions.
Rest assured that I will be considering them. I just can't guarantee that I'll be doing all of them, obviously.

>>59154194
>>59162974
>>59163025
What is this "Melleus" you guys are talking about? I'm assuming it's not the Ordo Malleus since you seem to be referring to a person.

>>59163268
I'm thinking the guy I quoted misspelled Malleus. I forgot to correct that misspelling in my quoting of him because I was and still am kinda drowsy, I just woke up a little while ago. Anyway, expect more of Logann's backstory and maybe some of Elrana's backstory at some point down the line.

>>59152664
I don't like being so insistent about this, but I do need an answer to this question. It kinda ties into whether his old regiment rejoined him or if they were already with him on shore leave when Blacklaw struck. Kind of a minor quibble, but an important one as I don't want to step on anymore toes as far as fluff is concerned.

>>59164179
Officially Inquisitors can't own more than 100 full time staff and one small warp capable ship. In emergencies they can in theory requisition more or less anything up to fleets of ships and armies so long as they give it up once the emergency is over.

>>59164383
Thank you, this will help with further revisions.

>>one small warp capable ship
One thing though, how small is small exactly?

>>59165438
This is the smallest military ship in Vanilla so far as I can see

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Viper_Destroyer#Viper_Class_Missile_Destroyer

not sure about civilian ships.

>>59165656
>http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Viper_Destroyer#Viper_Class_Missile_Destroyer
>>Crew: 15,000 crew (approx)
Uhh does this count towards the 100 person staff limit?

>>59166095
Dammit, I keep forgetting to put my trip on before asking about stuff that directly pertains to my project.

>>59166095

>>insertslyface.jpeg

No no no... the Inquisitor only requisitioned the Captain you see... and the personel and starship just incidentally follows the Captain's command, like how an Army or Regiment and it's armanents is under a General's...

>>59165656
>>59166095
You would think that if the smallest warp capable ship takes more than 15,000 people they wouldn't count towards an Inquisitor's retinue. Either that or they use smaller system-scale craft that just bum rides on larger ships.

40kWiki says the crew of a regular Viper is "only" 7500 though, so that's progress right there. Looking around the internet there was some suggestion that based on size estimates given in Rogue Trader if you get much smaller than the 950 meter Viper you run out of space to store weapons, supplies, and crew just to house the Warp Drive, Plasma Engine, and Gellar Field Drive.

Or you could go with a Tau manta, which is only 32 meters long. Though there is some debate over whether it's truly interstellar capable, and even if it is it uses a Tau Drive.

>>59167564
>>59166095
It's also possible that since technology is being shared between races, either the required crew per ship is reduced due to less stuff needing doing, or smaller ship designs based on Eldar or Tau craft are available for Inquisitors. I don't remember the specifics on how many are needed to crew a small Eldar ship, but it's probably much lower than the human equivalent.

>>59167564
Other member states might not be a lot of help. There's only one description of Interex ships but it describes them as big (though skinny).

"The ships were big. Visual relay showed them to be bright, sleek and silver-white, shaped like royal sceptres, with heavy prows, long, lean hulls and splayed drive sections. The largest of them was twice the keel length of the Vengeful Spirit."

Vengeful Spirit is a Gloriana Class battleship, which is "about" 20 km long. So the largest Interex ships are potentially 40 km long.

Hubworlders have warp core technology, which might allow them to miniaturize some things. But they also tend to build big and dieselpunk styled.

>>59166239
This is clever, but at the same time if this worked, couldn't an inquisitor requisition a small army and fleet to accompany said army this way? I suppose I could have Logann's old boss use this trick to get a few regiments and a small fleet of ships under his command, of which the 434th was only a single force, and then have Logann be given a portion of it when he is granted his own rosette.

>>59167564
>>59167656
>>59167664
These are also good points.

Hey one other question? Was it ever decided how many soldiers there were in a single Imperial Army regiment on average in the Nobledark setting?

How are space hulks dealt with here? Do eldar aspect warriors accompany space marine terminators on their jaunts into the wrecks in question in order to clear them of things like Genestealers, Ork mobs and Chaos forces or is something different tried?

>>59168655

For the requisitio stuff, most Inquisitors don't get away with this shit if they are 'bad' or 'rotten' much. Ordo Sicarius is there after all, and even in well-intentioned ways you're surely going to be given the stink eyes and a fuckload of paperworks to fill in the 'deyails".

>>59169782
>>ordo sicarius
I would assume this is the inquisition's bureau of internal affairs, right?

How much trouble would a survivor civilization get into with the wider Imperium for having human-level AI exactly? Some of the discussion in this thread mentioned Ad-Mech boycotts, but also seemed to hint that the rest of the Imperium wouldn't take it all that well either.

Does the somewhat higher Imperial tech level in this setting mean things like super-heavy tanks are more common?

>>59170766
Along with things like jetbikes and volkite.

>>59170132
There are exceptions like Elmo, but there are three ways they could possibly be dealt with.
Best case scenario, Emperium's investigations find that the world and AIs seem stable enough for their existence to be tolerated- as long as they don't get access to anything or anywhere else. The Survivor Civ gets to continue existing, but under a state of quarantine from the rest of the Imperium, and aren't allowed to expand beyond whatever they already have. Admech puts them on shitlist, which means nobody wants to do business with them, which means they're basically on their own.

Most likely scenario, The Imperium offers forgiveness, so long as the AIs are disposed of willingly. Otherwise, they are forcibly disposed of. Civs that choose to resist tend to not survive the conflict in any meaningful way. This is not callousness, it's just that the Imperium's learned the hard way how bad AI rebellions can be, and can't afford to have a similar one pop up again with all the other shit going on.

Worst case scenario, the AIs are already starting to turn to Chaos, or are otherwise on the brink of becoming a major threat. The Imperium skips the diplomatic route and just orbital-bombards the AIs out of existence, then worries about saving and reintegrating any humans who survived.

>>59170792
Hey neat, has there been any writefaggotry in the threads detailing the use of these things in the current time of the setting or has that not been done yet?

>>59171094
There has not. So far it's just been one of those minor background elements.

>>59169851

Yep.

>>59164383
>>59166095
>>59166239
>>59167564
>>59168655
We've never placed an explicit limit on an Inquisitor's power, but what the anon who said "100 max" was getting at is that Inquisitors have more restrictions on their power compared to canon, where they are pretty much have free reign to do whatever the hell they want unless other Inquisitors attack them. Can't really claim to be the Emperor's absolute will when the Emperor is still around.

In this AU, they still have a lot of leeway to do what they think is appropriate, but their ability to requisition supplies/men is more limited, and only Inquisitor Lords have the unlimited blank check like in canon to requisition whoever they want because they've earned the trust over centuries of service. All requisitions are reviewed after the incident by an internal council in the Ordo Sicarus to make sure it the actions were appropriate the situation. Punishments for overstepping your boundaries include reprimands, demotions, or having the Carcharodons Astra sicced on you if you're Karamazov.

>>59158746
Maybe if the situation is appropriate. People are rational in the Nobledark Imperium, which reduces the ridiculous interchapter manchild bickering that happens when one marine wipes his ass with another chapter's banner or something. The Blood Ravens aren't going to waste good equipment and just leave it lying around, but they wouldn't do it if it would unnecessarily antagonize others. Besides, Blood Ravens are often deployed behind enemy lines on specialized missions and thus rarely work with other chapters, so any power armor they salvage would likely be off their own dead which obviously they are OK with.

>>59171708
Well, my general outline for Logann and company is that they chase Blacklaw's band for a century or so, in and around the general area of the Elysia system/sector + the immediate surrounding area, destroying pirates, renegades, various other freebooter bands and being recognized as having proved himself worthy of being an Inquisitor Lord after seemingly killing Blacklaw only for the fucker in question to turn up again a decade or so later and then cue the raising of new fleets and armies to try and permanently deal with the problem.

It could be that the ships are privately owned and just assist the Inquisition.

>>59172037
That could work. Much like Unsworth and Revnor and Eisenhorn and that foppish cyborg.

>>59172037
>>59172509
This is also something I could work with as well, and volunteers of various kinds could be where a lot of Logann's support comes from early on.

>>59172735
You did mention that Logann was balls deep in an elder privateer. I'd say tat that solves both the problem of having his own boat and army. Any privateer worth their salt will have plenty of "security" to deter "pirates" and such.

>>59173326
Yeah that's true, he does have his girlfriend/wife and her fleet, and that will probably be another substantial part of his force early on. I intend on him having a bit more then that though, and once he's a proper inquisitor lord he'll have a proper force befitting that rank, just not enough of a one to accomplish his objective too quickly, considering his opposition.

Posting the latest stuff that has been revised plus some new stuff detailing the hunt.

Then, Logann, along with the rest of the 434th were inducted into the Ordo Xenos branch of the Inquisition to deal with a mostly standard Ork Freebooter threat in the Elysia system that was only really exceptional for it's size, but was still the first major threat this regiment would face so far, and it was during this time that the Inquisitor in charge of the operation became aware of his capabilities. After that threat had been dealt with, Logann(along with few dozen other veterans of his regiment who had also impressed the inquisitor) was offered a position as an acolyte at the relatively young age of 20, he accepted, and began a 26 year long employment in the Ordo Xenos, hunting various Xenos Horrificus level threats for the most part, and occasionally dealing with a few of the more hostile Xenos Independens, he distinguished himself in these tasks and was promoted to Inquisitor when he was still rather young for the job, receiving rejuvenant treatments at this time.

cont

>>59174257
cont

It was during his time in the inquisition that he met the eldar corsair Elrana Gilsamia, the pair hit it off fairly quickly while they were working together dealing with various threats and ultimately became an item. Not all of his life has been rosy however, upon his return to Elysia with Elrana in tow to celebrate their marriage/couple status(or whatever the eldar use in this setting) plus Logann being promoted to a proper Inquisitor, Ork pirates from Blacklaw's Freebooter gang began a series of raids for loot and slaves killing a large number of people, including some of Logann's old friends from his time in the 434th Drop Regiment in the process. Recognizing an obvious threat to the Elysia system's security and incensed at this slaughter of his old warbuddies, plus the killing/enslavement of other people, Logann and Elrana both volunteered to help hunt down and eliminate Blacklaw and his gang. Although, to be fair, Elrana was also interested in the challenge of capturing such a hard target.

>>59174273
cont

Thus began a 100 year long hunt for Blacklaw and his band. During this hunt Logann requisitioned some forces from the Elysian guard regiments(his old regiment were enthusiastic volunteers, some naval ships, and hired some "private contractors" as well to beef up the rather modest force he inherited from his mentor, plus the more substantial force that Elrana brought to the table. Force the first few decades of this hunt, Logann and Elrana thought that Blacklaw was just an exceptionally elusive freebooter, however the long period of dealing with diversionary raids, ambushs, booby traps, Blacklaw's associations with various renegade imperial elements, and plain old false positives when other freebooter bands would get caught and killed only for Blacklaw and company to start shit elsewhere at the sametime or shortly thereafter helped to drive home the true difficulty of the task before them.

cont

>>59174280
cont

After 40 years of this,(and the destruction of a large number of renegades and ork freebooter bands that wound up not being Blacklaw's particular bunch of asteroid partisans) The couple submitted and were granted further aid from the Deathwatch, who dispatched a few of their Killteams to aid in the hunt for Blacklaw and his freebooters. After another 60 years of hunting, seeking and destroying that ultimately wound up drawing in some Adeptus Mechanicus forces as well due to constant raids on their Facilities by Blacklaw and his band, the infamous Freebooter and his group were finally cornered, and after a massive fleet and ground action were believed annihilated on an icy planetoid(think of a larger pluto, basically) in the Elysian system/sector. Logann was promptly promoted to the rank of Inquisitor Lord for this triumph, and he fully expected due to the massive amount of destruction caused to the various Non-Chaos threats in the sector that he would either be reinforcing Malleus/Hereticus groups in the area or he and his wife could go and find some other group of Xenos Horrificus to hunt for a while.

cont

>>59174313
That's what I have so far, lemme know what you guys think, and as always plz don't die little thread.

Did the events of the Soulstorm expansion take place in this game in some way?

What about DoW II and Retribution, did that stuff happen in some form?

>>59174735
>>Did the events of the Soulstorm expansion take place in this setting in some way?
fixed

>>59174735
Don't think so, at least nobody has said so outright.

If they were to happen then they would have to happen as highly modified independent incidents elsewhere. The Reconquista of Kronus was declared complete quite close to the 999M41 cut off point to the degree that Taldeer has been effectively the Governor-Militant for only a few months as Lofn was conceived in the final frantic days of that campaign and she is in the final days of her pregnancy on the last midnight of 999M41.

>>59061075
How Starship Troopers are we wanting to take this?

>>59176597
All the way.

>>59174335
It's looking good.

>>59178014
Just so you know, the mobile infantry in Heinlein's original novel had power armor suits and tactical nukes readily available.

>>59180152
Here it would have to be an abundance of Carapace and some regional grenade variant. Maybe a special incendiary type. Is it possible to mix phosphorus and thermite? If it is then it's that. It's not supposed to be very explosive but that dead ork ain't sporin'. Also holy water and silver compounds for when the Great Rift shits on them again.

Basically everyone on the PDF has a suit of carapace, it's a planetary export.

>>59179622
Thanks, have a little mini-update on me.

First and foremost though, it was time for Logann and Elrana to take a vacation for a couple of years, and for the soldiers and naval personnel under their collective command to get some RnR as well. It was during this period of down time that Logann and Elrana first wrote of their experiences hunting Blacklaw and crew, and the elysian propaganda films made based off this account have been making the pair a substantial sum of money from Royalties ever since.

>>59181064
What would be the Morita Rifle equivalent in this situation? Their las-carbines?

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>>59141335
Gonna post what I got so far.

It is of popular belief that the Blood Ravens are indeed successors of the Thousand Sons Legion. Though any records that would officially confirm this statement are non-existent, lost, or sealed away by the Inquisition if such ties were true. All history of the Blood Ravens any farther back than the Age of Apostasy has been kept hidden in view of the public by the chapters librarians and their close ties with the Inquisition. All official dates of the Chapters founding, or predecessors remain unanswered. The Thousand Sons Legion had numerous schisms throughout its history, and only a small list of these had been confirmed to be loyal successors.

>>59181358
There are few rumors and statements of the Blood Ravens history have been answered to be sanctioned true by the Great Father Azariah Vidya, who was the first to hold the title of both Chapter Master as well the Chief Librarian. One such subject was the formation the chapter. The Blood Ravens originally formed with close links to the Inquisition during its initial founding due to its primary purpose of an espionage and infiltration chapter. Vidya was a long veteran of the chapters earliest missions. He was able to recount with approval of Inquisitor Amadeus why the chapter needed so many psychically gifted individuals towards his brothers soon after he replaced the chapter master that was lost in a campaign inside the Gothic Sector.

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>>59181384
Back when the chapter was founded, the Imperium was having a problem with the Necron Overlord Trazyn the Infinite. Trazyn was reknown for being protective with his objects and has also stolen several relics under the Imperium as well. To learn or liberate these relics under his grasp would have been considerably risky, as the Necron Star Empire relationship with the Imperium was unsteady (and was ever growing worse due to the Eldars views on them), and what Trazyn could potentially have would leave devastating losses if they were to ever fight on Solemnace. The Ordo Astartes then decided to form a new chapter with no written documentation. The marines of this force would be given a modified strain of the Mark III Astartes gene-seed to potentially gift the individual the development of psychic abilities to prepare the study of possibly demonic artifacts inside the forbidden tombworld.

>>59181414
Vidya went on to explain the joint training with the Raven Guard and the introduction of deep strike tactics that were taken directly from the Blood Angels in the early days of the Chapter that would soon become Blood Ravens. The scouts were also guided by the Librarians of the Minotaurs and the Grey Knights of the dangers chaos. As well as to show how to use their new-found abilities with their connection to the warp. Were they to under go the same rituals as these chapters were not answered by the Great Father, but it is deemed by many that it was more plausible that they didn’t. As time showed later that the Blood Ravens were indeed not imperviable to the temptation of the ruinous powers.
Soon the Ordo Astartes saw more use for the Blood Ravens chapter with their non-traditional techniques in combat and success in reclaiming of the artefacts inside Trazyn’s Galleries. They were given the planet Aurelia as their fortress home, becoming the guardians of secretive knowledge. Through their psychic abilities and tactical brilliance, the Blood Ravens could easily infiltrate the enemy territory undetected and analyze in cover for the right opportunity to strike. Their Librarians and captains, knowledgeable of the habits and culture of their enemies, plot out plans to exploit the weaknesses of their enemies against them. With a relatively small chapter compared to others, the Blood Ravens will favor hitting strategically important personnel and structures first before rolling in with heavier fire power. As per tradition, the Blood Ravens will then pick up any relics and spoils of war they have obtain on the battle. Either as a subject of study, or to reclaim as their own. Irony stings hard, as The Fallen across the campaign of Kronus have felt their own plasma weaponry - now cleansed of taint - used against themselves by loyalist hands.

>>59181432
This habit of liberating spoils of war for their own use is often the topic of concern when it comes to the Blood Ravens chapter. Due to their status as an official successor chapter of any legion has been never recognized by the Inquisition, they are not supplied with anything more than the bare minimum of materiel and gene seeds. As part of their training long ago, the Blood Ravens must get their hands on whatever they can find that isn’t destroyed on their campaigns of irregular warfare. This is appropriately shunned upon by several chapters of the Astartes, as a plentiful amount of the battle gear and materiel taken from the Blood Ravens were originally part their own private armories. Once thought lost, only to now be touted and used by a small chapter of no distinct Primarch. Such conflicts were remedied by Chapter Master Angelos. To redeem the chapter, he made several trips to the home worlds of fellow space marines to return their lost arms and relics. Some chapters accepted the offer, as they were happy to find their forgotten antiquities found again. Others were more understandably still miffed that they were not contacted sooner; Weapons and Armor that were rightfully theirs taken by some untitled group of irregular astartes might as well be thievery, no matter what the situation was when it was obtained. Unsurprisingly, but still notable, the Ultramarines tolerated the adoption of their fallen arms in the ranks of the Blood Ravens.

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>>59181456
Larger controversy still is the matter on if the relics in possession of the Blood Ravens are more damning than holy. As with all things that surrounds Kyras’s reign as Blood Father, the campaigns under his orders held many questions over what their true intentions were. The armories of the blood ravens grew with each conflict they faced, which made many - even those in their own ranks, weary of this strange hoarding of materiel and their possible ties with the Ruinous Powers. And then there was Boreale, who fell from grace during his mission to create a new fortress monastery in the Kaurava System. After the resignation of Azariah Kyras, the Inquisition wouldn’t touch on the truth about this subject. Only to rebuttal any statements and claim they inspected the war gear for any “necessary treatment”.
Still, with his modest and humbleness, Chapter Master Gabriel showed his fellow battle brothers that the Blood Ravens are indeed loyal to humanity and the Imperium. Along with the chapters new allies in the Tau, and the already accustomed Biel-Tan.

>>59181497
I have more, but most of it is just character notes that are a paragraph too long.

>>59181358
>>59181384
>>59181414
>>59181432
>>59181456
>>59181497
>>59181527
Hmm, it's a start. I hate to be negative, but it's not really getting the tone of a Chapter of psychic deep recon Solid Snakes across to me. For example, your description here is pretty general:
>Their Librarians and captains, knowledgeable of the habits and culture of their enemies, plot out plans to exploit the weaknesses of their enemies against them. With a relatively small chapter compared to others, the Blood Ravens will favor hitting strategically important personnel and structures first before rolling in with heavier fire power.
That could apply to a lot of different chapters, so I think it may be beneficial to brainstorm, since at the moment there's not a lot of unique ideas or interesting narrative to draw a reader in. I would refer you to the FFG Deathwatch books on how to write an interesting chapter description.

Lore wise, I don't think it really adds anything for them to have unknown lineage. In canon they're coy about the whole loyalist TS thing, but in this AU chapter lineages are pretty clear due to rational record keeping and greater transparency; even the Grey Knights are acknowledged successors of the Thousand Sons in this AU and they're the most secretive chapter in canon. Nor do I think geneseed would/could be modified to enhance or bring out psychic abilities; since geneseed is not derived from Primarchs in this AU, differences are due to Chapter culture and their selection of recruits. So if the Thousand Sons or Blood Ravens have lots of psykers, it's because they explicitly screen for them when choosing their recruits.

>>59176597
>>59178014
>>59181234
>>59181291
Grumpy oldfag reminder that we are keeping the deviations from canon to a minimum. We can take some inspiration from Starship Troopers but the Elysian Drop Troopers are mostly fine as they are.

>>59183244
Also Azariah Kyras became a traitor, see the Saga of Fedor Jiao.

The Blood Ravens probably don't admit where they came from because they aren't supposed to exist. They aren't supposed to have traceable records and any that do exist are probably sealed to hell and back by the Inquisition.

>Elysian Drop Troopers
How much canon material does Elysium have? All I know about them is that they are paratroopers and they get fucked over constantly because the vanilla Imperium can't work together to order take-out, much less win a war. I'd say if it fleshes out Elysium go for it, but I would agree with >>59183244 to avoid massive deviations (I like the Great Rift idea to give Elysium some plot, though).

Also new thread. I'll get this one archived.
>>59183440
>>59183440